From bokr at oz.net  Sun Sep  7 15:18:52 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 19:18:52 GMT
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjg0as$eeu$0@216.39.172.122>

On 7 Sep 2003 11:26:28 -0700, danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan) wrote:

>I was recently surprised, and quite shocked in fact, to find that
>Python treats negative indices into sequence types as if they were
>mod(length-of-sequence), at least up to -len(seq).
>
>This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.
> One of the big advantages of a high-level language such as Python is
>the ability to provide run-time bounds checking on array-type
>constructs.  To achieve this I will now have to subclass my objects
>and add it myself, which seems silly and will add significant
>overhead.  If you want this behavior, how hard is it to say a = b[x %
>len(b)] ??

That isn't really the exact behavior. E.g.,

 >>> range(5)
 [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
 >>> range(5)[-4]
 1
 >>> range(5)[-5]
 0
 >>> range(5)[-6]
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 IndexError: list index out of range

 >>> range(5)[4]
 4
 >>> range(5)[5]
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 IndexError: list index out of range

>Can anyone explain why this anomaly exists, and why it should continue
>to exist?
It has apparently proven more useful to have it so than not, though I sympathize
with your frustration in for your use.

Perhaps a .no_negative_indexing attribute or something could be added to the C implementation,
so that you could specify your desired checking without a performance hit.

Meanwhile, maybe an assert i>=0 in the index-supplier side of the contract might work too?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Sep 23 03:05:04 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:05:04 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
In-Reply-To: <bkcgfm$gu1$1@news.island.liu.se>
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org>
 <bkcgfm$gu1$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309230957540.25372@sampo.csc.fi>

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Thomas Bellman wrote:

> Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
> > is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
> > straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with sockets
> > and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.
>
> First of all you need to define what "being online" means...
[...]
> Or perhaps you should tell us *why* you believe you need to check
> if the computer is connected to the Internet or not.  Then we can
> go directly to telling you that it is a bad idea, and suggest what
> you should do instead. <0.5 wink>

OK, here's what I want to do:

When the Tkinter application I am writing starts up, it checks if certain
files on the web exists and if so, it downloads them to a local directory
replacing possible earlier copies of these files. So, what I mean by
checking if the computer is online is that I want to check if I can access
these certain remote files with urllib.urlretrieve(). If I can, then I
download them. If I can't, I assume the computer is not connected to the
Internet and I skip the update phase.

The problem with just running urllib.urlretrieve() is that the execution
of the script halts as there is no timeout available for Python 2.2.2. (I
tried timeoutsocket.py to get this done, but that only worked on Windows
2000, not Redhat Linux 7.0. I also tried upgrading to Python 2.3, but that
caused some other problems, especially with the gettext module and with
the fact that my ISO-8859-1 encoded files needed a "coding" line.)

So that's that. Anybody still got a few lines of code that would get this
done on Python 2.2.2 on Windows _and_ Linux?

Cheers,

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Sep  7 17:31:29 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:31:29 +0100
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
Message-ID: <ce3GgJAxO6W$EwXd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom at 216.77.188.17>, rt lange
<whiteywidow at yahoo.com> writes
>came across this page searching feedster.
>dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
>but the mockups look very nice.
>
>http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1
>
>main page mockup:
>http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main.html
>
>interior page:
>http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior.html
It looks nice, but is really slow or is that just the demo site? Using
those big images really slows things down for me at least.
-- 
Robin Becker



From dek at compbio.berkeley.edu  Tue Sep  9 19:40:12 2003
From: dek at compbio.berkeley.edu (David Konerding)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:40:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: logging module: log method with keyword arguments
Message-ID: <slrnblsp6u.7db.dek@timber.Berkeley.EDU>

Hi,
I am trying to write my own Logging Handler object, to work within an existing logging system that I use.

However, when I try to dispatch log calls to the logger, I get an error in an internal logging call.

Here's an example code:
logger = logging.getLogger('test')
logger_handler = logging.StreamHandler(sys.stdout)
logger_formatter = logging.Formatter('%(asctime)s %(levelname)s %(message)s')
logger_handler.setFormatter(logger_formatter)
logger.addHandler(logger_handler)
logger.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
logger.debug("Message: %(msg2)", msg2="foo")

The message I get is:

  File "/home/portnoy/d5/dek/sw/rh9/Python-2.3/lib/python2.3/logging/__init__.py", line 879, in debug
    apply(self._log, (DEBUG, msg, args), kwargs)
TypeError: _log() got an unexpected keyword argument 'msg2'

Now, I can kind of understand this because the documentation for the debug() method says:

The only keyword argument in kwargs which is inspected is exc_info which,
if it does not evaluate as false, causes exception information (via a
call to sys.exc_info()) to be added to the logging message.

My only problem is that the documentation doesn't say anything about
not accepting kwargs which aren't "exc_info" (I recognize the syntax I used above doesn't
actually do what I wanted anyway).

Dave



From netvegetable at fastmail.fm  Sun Sep 21 02:42:35 2003
From: netvegetable at fastmail.fm (netvegetable)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:42:35 +0900
Subject: OT: Re: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it> <ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bkjh7q$2d5i9$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:37:45 +0000, Phil Weldon wrote:

> It's a worm.  Worm.Automat.AGH.  This is going to be a bad one.  The worm
> installs, among other things, an SMPT engine, searches an infected system
> for email address, and sends two types of e-mail:  the first is HTML and
> is a fake "security patch" supposedly from Microsoft.  It looks very
> official, but the attachment, 104 KBytes long, is infectious.  Norton
> Antivirus definitions only began to identify it with the 18SEP03 manual
> definition update.  The worm also posts to usenet newsgroups.  The other
> type of e-mail is a fake notification of undeliverable e-mail.  This one
> is a real bear. There seem to be hundreds variations in the body content
> and thousands of variations in the header.  The infectious package is also
> about 104 KBytes. I'm getting nearly 100 of the two types per hour. 
> Norton Antivirus does not detect the worm in usnet posts read by Outlook
> Express Newsreader or Outlook Newsreader.  Only when you attempt to open
> the attachment or save the attachment to disk will Norton identify it. 
> Norton will NOT detect the virus in the newsgroup posts folder NOR will it
> detect the newsgroup folder in a full system scan.  It will not remove the
> infected file from the newsgroup folder, but it will prevent execution of
> the vermal payload.
> 
> Microsoft Outlook with the SP3 security update when used as your e-mail
> reader protects against infection.  Prior to 18SEP03 Norton did not.
> 
> The worm is also retrieving additional variations, so you can expect the
> payload size to begin changing soon.  The HTML message is easy to
> identify; it is always the same (so far), and includes the phrase 'Run
> attached file'. The bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' variations have no
> commonality but the payload attachment (that purports to be your bounced
> e-mail.)  This will likley change soon.
> 
> My guess is that the internet will not open on Monday.


The worm uses newsgroup info from Outlook Express as well.

What's to stop a worm from retrieving header file info, and using the NNTP
posting header to actually hack people's computers? 

-- 
to email me remove underscore _
death to spammers




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Sep 19 19:30:03 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:30:03 -0700
Subject: os.environ and os.path.chdir
In-Reply-To: <bkg2l2$aj3s$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
References: <bkg2l2$aj3s$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <20030919233003.GB2478@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Yun Mao (maoy at cis.upenn.edu):
> Hi,
>    How to make changes to os.environ and os.path.chdir still effective after
> I run the script? Currently, the changes are only good within my script. I
> would like the shell who called python myprog.py also gets the change..
> Thank you!

To the best of my knowledge, this can't be done. Depending on the
specific application, you might have several workarounds.

One is to exit into a new shell, using os.execve instead of sys.exit.
That creates "nested" shells, unless the user exec's your program
also.

Another is to exit by printing a list of commands, and expect that the
user will run your program like "eval `myprog.py`" to execute those
commands.

As far as I know, though, there's no way to actually hijack the user's
shell process. The user needs to explicitly give you that control.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "There is no fate that cannot be 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     surmounted by scorn." --Albert Camus




From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Sep  8 14:44:10 2003
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:44:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: [DATE CHANGE] Baypiggies User Group Meeting, September 10, 2003
References: <bjh2mf$n95$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <bjiilq$15qn$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

Hi everyone,

Sorry for repeating the post, but I mistyped the date!  The meeting
will be held this Wednesday, not Thursday.


Here is a repost of the announcement:

----------------

BayPIGgies: Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group

When: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 @ 7:30pm
Where: Carnegie Institute of Washington
       at Stanford University; Palo Alto
Agenda: Wavelets for SciPy
Speaker: Chad Netzer

Abstract: This talk will demonstrate an implementation of a wavelets
package for SciPy, and present some applications with signal processing
and image classification.  There will be discussion of the benefits of
doing scientific computation with Python, unit testing with statistical
methods, and using SciPy with PythonCard as a learning tool. (Knowledge of
wavelets is not a requirement, and the math will be kept to a minimum)

For driving directions, please visit:

    http://baypiggies.net


We hope to see you there!



From glingl at aon.at  Mon Sep  8 07:51:28 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:51:28 +0200
Subject: GIFs Using Tkinter
Message-ID: <3F5C6D40.6070309@aon.at>

I'm trying to use recipe 9.5 from Python Cookbook, which suggests
to read gifs from files using base64.encodestring in order to embed 
those images into my sourcecode.

I've prepared some 20 gifs with Photoshop which are all merely
rotated versions of some "master"-gif. (They all are produced in
exactly the same way and have (255,255,255) as transparent color.)

They all can be used as Tkinter PhotoImages with the file-option
perfectly well.

However, if I try to use the data-option with strings constructed
from those same gifs according to the recipe mentioned above,
I observe, that among those gif-images
(1) some can be displayed correctly (more than 50%)
(2) some are corrupted and are displayed with stripes or other
artefacts.
(3) and some result in strings only a few characters long
which cannot be interpreted as image-data at all.

What could be the reason for this annoying behaviour and how
can I avoid it.

Thanks in advance

Gregor




From none at none.net  Wed Sep 24 07:38:14 2003
From: none at none.net (Sami Viitanen)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:38:14 GMT
Subject: command exit status on windows
Message-ID: <Gmfcb.13418$g4.272374@news1.nokia.com>

Hello,

Is there a way to check if a command executed in ms-dos returns 0 (success)
or greater than 0 (fail) ?

In Unix the module commands.getstatusoutput returns exit status..


Thanks in advance.

-SV





From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Wed Sep 24 09:54:06 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:54:06 +0200
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
References: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com> <bkroq8$8ud$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr> <8ad2cfb3.0309240530.19029a98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f83nv47k9m7qm4pace4lvfdfaqmof47ei@4ax.com>

Nick Keighley:
>    sin.sin_port = PORT;

"serv_addr.sin_port = htons(portno);

The second field of serv_addr is unsigned short sin_port , which contain
the port number. However, instead of simply copying the port number to
this field, it is necessary to convert this to network byte order using
the function htons() which converts a port number in host byte order to a
port number in network byte order."
http://www.cs.rpi.edu/courses/sysprog/sockets/sock.html

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  3 22:24:39 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:24:39 -0700
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <87n0dmj82w.fsf@flibuste.net> <877k4q6jj1.fsf@pobox.com> <87ekyxinsx.fsf@flibuste.net> <bj5mmu$fj2v2$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <877k4pfmy3.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bj67hu$f3v9i$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| But you can use Python just as easily.
|
| <script language="Python">
| ...
| </script>

John ....

    I did that example HTA using VBScript about 3 years ago
    before I even knew that Python existed and just posted it
    as a handy example to illustrate basically what a local
    HTA could do ....

    It would be  WAY  cooler to do it in Python,
    and now that I know it's possible I'll try it ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From Jim.Vickroy at noaa.gov  Wed Sep 17 12:59:54 2003
From: Jim.Vickroy at noaa.gov (Jim Vickroy)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:59:54 -0600
Subject: [egenix-users] mx.DateTime bogus warning: "float where int expected"
References: <33436.199.169.240.132.1063814659.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <3F68930A.CD2E4C63@noaa.gov>

I do not have an explanation, but the statement:

        dt = self.firstdate + self.mm * int(i)

appears to be the source of this warning.  The warning only appears the first
time the statement is executed; thereafter, no warning is issued.


python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote:

> Hi-
>
> I'm getting a "DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float"
> warning with mx.DateTime and I can't figure out why.  Can anyone help me
> out?
>
> This code:
>
> import mx.DateTime
>
> class xLabeller:
>     def __init__(self, firstdate,fmt='%B, %Y'):
>         self.firstdate = firstdate
>         self.fmt = fmt
>         self.mm = mx.DateTime.RelativeDateTime(months=1)
>     def __call__(self, i):
>         dt = self.firstdate + self.mm * int(i)
>         return dt.Format(self.fmt)
>
> nov99 = mx.DateTime.Date(int(1999), int(11))
>
> xl = xLabeller(nov99)
> print "xl2:"
> print xl(int(3))
>
> Produces this warning:
>
> >>> ================================ RESTART ===========
> >>>
> xl2:
> C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\DateTime.py:585:
> DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float
>   return DateTime(year, month, 1) + \
> February, 2000
>
> What is the story?  I've wrapped every number in my program with int().  I
> can't figure out what's triggering the warning.
>
> And, even stranger, the whole thing works fine at the python shell:
>
> >>> import mx.DateTime
> >>> mm = mx.DateTime.RelativeDateTime(months=1)
> >>> nov99
> <DateTime object for '1999-11-01 00:00:00.00' at 98dc20>
> >>> dt = nov99 + mm * 3
> >>> dt.Format('%b, %y')
> 'Feb, 00'
> >>>
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> eGenix.com User Mailing List                     http://www.egenix.com/
> http://lists.egenix.com/mailman/listinfo/egenix-users





From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Fri Sep 19 18:16:11 2003
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (satish)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:16:11 -0400
Subject: Custom Execution from Python
Message-ID: <200309191816.11721.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>

Hello all,

I have a shared object executable  viz. *cable*  which I execute as follows :

$ ansyscust71 -custom cable -p ANSYSRF

**ansyscust71 is a shell script and is a part of a software called ANSYS**


Now, I have generated a python module using a *fortran-python interface 
generator called F2PY* using the same *make rules* which were used to make 
*cable* when not using F2PY

I got a Python extension module named *cable_f2py* again.

From the python environment when I tried to execute *cable_f2py* ( this is 
python module due to F2PY), I got a segmentation error just like how I would 
get this error when I execute *cable* as follows when not using F2PY:

$ ./cable
Segmentation Fault

However, when I execute it as follows, it works

$ansyscust71 -custom cable -p ANSYSRF  --> This is required for succesful 
execution


Now, I dont understand how I can mimic the above way of execution from within 
Python to execute *cable_f2py* which as I mentioned earlier is the result of 
making and linking all the same libraries which were used while making and 
linking cable

I am really confused

Can someone help me ??


Thanks in advance,

Best Regards,
Satish






-- 
SATISH KUMAR CHIMAKURTHI
Graduate Teaching Assistant
CFD GROUP
UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
LEXINGTON
KENTUCKY - 40508
Email: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu
Mobile: 859-312-8425

Vice-President
American Institute Of Aeronautics and Astronautics
Student Chapter
University Of Kentucky




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 19:06:08 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 00:06:08 +0100
Subject: mixing for x in file: and file.readline
References: <rowen-222487.13545311092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <87wucf53j3.fsf@pobox.com>

"Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> writes:

> At one time, mixing for x in file and readline was dangerous. For 
> example:
> 
> for line in file:
>   # read some lines from a file, then break
> nextline = readline() # bad
> 
> would not do what a naive user might expect because the file iterator 
> buffered data and readline did not read from that buffer. Hence the call 
> to readline might unexpectedly skip some lines.
> 
> I stumbled across this the hard way, but am wondering if it's still 
> present in Python 2.3. I thought I'd seen it documented recently, but 
> looking through the description of the file object in the Python Library 
> Reference, I didn't see it.

There was a thread-fragment about this a while back.  See the message
from Steven Taschuk a few messages past this one:

http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=87llukrdow.fsf%40pobox.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3D%2522for%2520line%2520in%2520file%253A%2522%2520group%253Acomp.lang.python%26safe%3Dimages%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26as_uauthors%3Djjl%40pobox.com%26lr%3D%26num%3D30%26hl%3Den

http://tinyurl.com/n2cc



> Anyone know if it's still an issue? If so, anyone have any idea how hard 
[...]

Was fixed in 2.3, maybe in 2.2.3 also (not sure).


John



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Sep 30 13:28:36 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:28:36 -0400
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>
 <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <blbupn$pf6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <E1be/kKkX0BT092yn@gnosis.cx>         

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote previously:
|just make a bit map of the 10**8 on disk, which would only be
| >>> 10**8/8000000.
| 12.5
|megabytes.

I had been thinking about this also, but Bengt beat me to posting
something.  I think that we could pick up Emile van Sebille's suggestion
about gaps only needing to store even numbers here; the equivalent being
that we only store a bit array of ODD numbers, getting us down to 6.25
mB of storage space (special casing of the prime '2' needs to be
handled, seems manageable :-)).

Doing this does not necessarily produce a smaller storage format than a
zip'd bitmap of all the numbers.  But the in-memory image doesn't
require a decompression step (and the stored version can still be
compressed).  I guess the test is something like:

    prime_bits = open('bitarray.primes','rb').read() # only odd nums
    def isPrime(N):
        if N < 2:  return False
        elif N==2: return True
        else:
            byte, bit = divmod(N, 16)
            bit = bit//2
            return ord(prime_bits[byte]) & 2**bit

You could also use a memory-mapped file or the like, of course.

|Nth-prime and how-many-below-N would need some other representations.
|You could translate the bit map to a sequence of prime counts for 8 or 16-bit
|chunks with a simple 2*8 or 2**16 byte table mapping bytes or 16-bit chunks to
|the counts of bits within them, then sum and only fiddle with one bit chunk to
|make an nth-prime table...

The ancillary data structure would indeed speed the "how-many-below"
calculation enormously, while not taking too much space.

Along those lines, what's the quickest way to count bits in Python?
Maybe someone has a clever idea... something that would run a whole
bunch faster than my bit mask style above for counting all the "1"s in a
multibyte string.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From p at ulmcnett.com  Mon Sep  8 18:20:57 2003
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:20:57 -0700
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <87u17nne1a.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org> <87u17nne1a.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200309081520.57743.p@ulmcnett.com>

John J. Lee writes:

> > * There's no guarantee tiny urls will remain unique or even
> > available for long periods of time.  Their current practice
> > of using four lower-case letters suggests they have space
> > for about 450,000 unique URLs before extending to a fifth
> > letter.
>
> Good practice to give both URLs, I suppose -- easier to
> cut-n-paste the tinyurl, but the original one has a better
> chance of still working later.

Just what is the problem with posting long url's anyway? 
Just turn off wordwrap, and send. Example of a long url
(I have wordwrap off):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321112547/qid=1063059237/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-8213749-9028058?v=glance&s=books

TinyURL is perhaps a cute idea though...

-- 
Paul McNett




From gillet at scripps.edu  Mon Sep 29 19:39:54 2003
From: gillet at scripps.edu (Alexandre Gillet)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:39:54 -0700
Subject: build a static python executable on linux?
In-Reply-To: <g7ehnv0r4okuds8jarvmqj6tnntlm0bvhs@4ax.com>
References: <blacgq$2qe$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <g7ehnv0r4okuds8jarvmqj6tnntlm0bvhs@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <blafsa$3i5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

I am able to compile a static interpreter (using -static -static-libgcc) 
but I can not build the extensions correctly.
When I  import an extensions (ie Tkinter, readline) I get undefine 
symbol error. It seems the symbol should be define in glibc but the 
extensions can't seems to find it.

Any ideas how I should built the extensions

Thanks
Alex

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:42:34 -0700, rumours say that Alexandre Gillet
> <gillet at scripps.edu> might have written:
> 
> 
>>I am trying to build a python interpreter that is static link.
>>My python interpreter was build on RedHat 8.0 using gcc 2.3 and GLIBC 2.3
>>When running on other linux flavor that still have GLIBC 2.2, the 
>>interpreter won't start. (error message:  /lib/libc.so.6: version 
>>`GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /mgl/python/i86Linux2/bin/python2.3)
> 
> 
> I believe you should install the glibc-static-devel package and then
> find the approprate options for gcc (my noisy linux computer is turned
> off now so I can't man gcc, but IIRC is -static :) in order to build a
> static python.




From dave at 3dex.com  Thu Sep 11 14:48:56 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:48:56 GMT
Subject: mod_python installation
References: <kue1mv4fer2lncl8r17q2vmhi30drvme2k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ss38b.700$8g2.400@news1.central.cox.net>

"Patrick Useldinger" <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:kue1mv4fer2lncl8r17q2vmhi30drvme2k at 4ax.com...
> I have added the loadModule command for mod_python: "LoadModule
> python_module modules/mod_python.so", and the file is there.
>
> Apache won't start anymore. No error message is in Apache's log file.
> Uncommenting the loadModule command makes apache start correctly.

This might be a dumb question, but did you check the error log or the access
log? What happens when you try to start apache from the command line? (is
that possible in Windows? I've never tried...)

Good luck,
Dave





From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 15 07:32:43 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:32:43 +0200
Subject: caching the sql queries
In-Reply-To: <ql7bmvonghumdt5qkcn06bigpaa4g7m6rm@4ax.com>
References: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1063623379.20087.python-list@python.org>
	<ql7bmvonghumdt5qkcn06bigpaa4g7m6rm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F65A35B.4080003@ghaering.de>

"JZ" wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:55:15 +0200, "Luca Calderano"
> 
>>>Is there any equivalent of caching sql queries for Python like ADOdb
>>>for PHP? (For those who did not hear about ADODb and its feature :
>>>http://phplens.com/adodb/caching.of.recordsets.html)
>>
>>The Only way is using Com
> 
> What do you mean?

Luca was mistaking the ADODB from Microsoft's ActiveX Data Objects (ADO) 
with the PHP API of the same name.

-- Gerhard




From news at exultants.org  Tue Sep  2 23:01:14 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:01:14 GMT
Subject: Python REST framework?
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.03.02.59.50.703359@exultants.org>

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:50:19 -0400, Jeremy Jones wrote:

> 
> Does anyone know if there exists a Python REST (web services) framework? 
> I've googled and come up short.  I don't think it should be that hard to
> do if one doesn't exist (famous last words).  I guess one could subclass
> BaseHTTPServer and have specified things to do depending on the path and
> the method?
> 
> 
> Jeremy Jones

Here's a nice little REST writeup with some sample Python code by Ken
MacLeod:

<http://bitsko.slc.ut.us/blog/restful-api.writeback>

Otherwise, as Dave Kuhlman mentions it's not that hard to build REST on
top of some of the existing frameworks like Quixote.

Van Gale




From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Sun Sep 14 00:57:28 2003
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:57:28 -0500
Subject: [Python] gdmodule true type font size
References: <m2r82ky473.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <000b01c37a7c$b31d96a0$1f00000a@Belkin>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Hunter" <jdhunter at nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>


> When using gdmodule to draw text using true 
> type fonts
> 
>   im.string_ttf(font, fontsize, angle, (x,y), s, color)
> 
> the docs say 'draw string s at (x,y) using the 
> TrueType font at the given pointsize and 
> angle.'  It is not clear to me how gd handles
> point size.  A fontsize of 12 should be 12/72 = 
> 1/6 inches tall but how does gd decide what an 
> inch is?  72 pixels?  Is there some scale
> parameter or constant that allows gd to make 
> the conversion from pixels to points?

No.  The underlying GD library assumes 1 point is
exactly 1 pixel.  Font metrics are pretty fuzzy,
so your mileage may vary slightly especially
with script fonts.

> I want my text to scale with image resolution 
> which is determined by a dpi parameter, and I 
> tried doing 
>
>   scale = dpi/72.0
>
>   im.string_ttf(font, scale*fontsize, angle, (x,y), s, color)
> 
> but the fonts are larger than they should be, 
> at least according to my calculations.

You've got me here.  Perhaps if I knew what you
were trying to accomplish at a bit higher level,
I might be able to make a suggestion.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net






From bogus at invalid.tld  Sat Sep  6 06:28:11 2003
From: bogus at invalid.tld (Jules Dubois)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 04:28:11 -0600
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <3f566751.342339448@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <b15d2792.0309040140.3d661451@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <y4w64jxhsf6q.1d9q7tjfyhccy$.dlg@40tude.net>

On 4 Sep 2003 02:40:50 -0700, post400 wrote:

So maybe you (experienced python guys ) [...]

I'm not experienced with Python.  I wrote my first forty (or so) lines of
code Thursday morning.

> [...] could make some
> suggestions from time to time about the must-read books , not
> necessarily on python but also on stuff about design , project
> management , OOP , etc. be it new stuff or old stuff.

Books I particularly liked:

  _Object Oriented Software Construction, 1E_.  Meyer. (OOP)
  _Design Patterns_.  Gamma, Helm, Johnson, Vlissides.
  _Refactoring_.  Fowler.

For OOP stuff, you might look at the comp.object newsgroup.  There are some
Wars of Religion there, but also some good information; Robert Martin
(Uncle Bob) and Martin Fowler post there.

> But I really wonder
> how a non-programmer could get into python as a first programming
> language since there's not much publicity and not many people around
> to lure you to it.

Publicity and lure are not the most important things to consider when
choosing a first language.  

For education, as opposed to training, I maintain the first two languages a
beginner should learn are Smalltalk and then Common Lisp.  Even though
they're not the most widely-used languages, these two will do more to teach
the fundamentals of programming than will Java, Python, Ruby, C++, Perl,
PHP, C#, or (especially) VBA.



From koen_van_herck at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 04:35:52 2003
From: koen_van_herck at yahoo.com (Koen Van Herck)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 01:35:52 -0700
Subject: Retrieve class name of caller
Message-ID: <6512ed42.0309190035.303ba9f1@posting.google.com>

For debugging/logging purposes, I have a function

def Log(msg):
    print '%s.%s: %s' % (cls, method, msg)

I call this function from a class method, and I would like to retrieve
the name of the caller method and its class. I already came up with

method = sys._getframe(1).f_code.co_name
cls = sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self'].__class__

I wonder if there are better ways to retrieve this info. In
particular, my implementation assumes that the instance parameter of
the method is called 'self', which it usually is, of course.

Regards,
Koen.



From M.Boeren at guidance.nl  Wed Sep 17 04:45:05 2003
From: M.Boeren at guidance.nl (Marc Boeren)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:45:05 +0200
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
Message-ID: <7BE0F4A5D7AED2119B7500A0C94C58AC3D6D5D@DELLSERVER>

Hi,

> For example with the string: "hello, %(word1) %(word2) !" and the
> dictionary: {"word1" : "python", "word2" : "lovers"} the final string
> would be: "hello python lovers"

You mean 
	base_string % dictionary

>>> "hello, %(word1)s %(word2)s !" % {"word1" : "python", "word2" :
"lovers"}
'hello, python lovers !'

Notice the trailing s in %(word)s!

Cheerio, Marc.





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 14:23:12 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:23:12 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <mis8nvcatssvo21nucc0ig83ovgn17u4cc@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:18:18 -0700, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>In article <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
> "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>> How about
>> 
>> from itertools import ireverse
>> for i in ireverse(xrange(n)):
>>     # suite
>> 
>> ireverse(), like imap(), izip(), etc., suggests that the operation is
>> iterative, and that no modification of the original sequence will be
>> performed. Others have suggested riter() (right iteration), in order to form
>> an association with the iter() builtin. As a matter of taste, I prefer
>> ireverse().
>
>ireverse, like imap(), izip(), etc., suggests that the operation happens 
>without the memory overhead of copying the whole sequence into a list 
>before reversing it.  Do you have some plan for how to do that e.g. with 
>simple generators?  Or easy to understand explanation for which things 
>can be ireversed and which can't?

How about this - only support ireverse for sequences (identified using
len, and perhaps with a check for the keys method in case of mapping
types) - not for iterators at all.

Add an xrange_backward function to complement xrange rather than
trying to modify the result of xrange, and where an object can
logically support reverse iteration have a method or property that
returns an alternative generator/iterator.

At its simplest, something like...

class newlist (list) :
  def ibackward (self) :
    i = len(self)
    while i > 0 :
      i -= 1
      yield i

...is no great burden for most built-in sequence types, and would
define a protocol for other types to follow where appropriate. It
doesn't need a big memory overhead.

Rather than define a separate xrange_backwards, it is worth noticing
that the built-in 'functions' xrange and enumerate actually seem to be
classes. We could add factory methods, set up to effectively give
alternate constructors, to allow syntax such as...

  for i in xrange.backward (10) :
    ...

  for i, j in enumerate.backward (seq) :
    ...
    

-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From fuerte at sci.fi  Mon Sep 15 15:39:24 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:39:24 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org> <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Paul Winkler wrote:
> Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message news:<EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083 at reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> 
>>A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:55:59 GMT, 
>>>	Mitch Chapman <mitchchapman at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>It's not useless, but it is not optimal. That's a fact. If you have a 
>>multiprocessor machine, you just waste it because Python can't run two 
>>threads at the same time. So if you want to create a high performance 
>>web site, then Python is out of the question for the scripting language.
> 
> You're making an awful lot of assumptions there. I'm going to
> concentrate on one of them.
> 
> First, you assume that this hypothetical high-performance website
> really is CPU-bound. I've never had one of those to deal with, but I
> won't argue.
> 
> Second, I'll assume that SMP really is the most cost-effective way
> available to scale up your CPU power. Probably depends on the rack
> space you have available and maybe somebody already provided an SMP
> box for the job.
> 
> Third, I'll assume that cacheing is already being used to the extent
> that it's applicable. Every website I've worked on is much more
> read-intensive than write-intensive. For these sort of sites,
> appropriate cacheing buys you a LOT.
> Disk space and RAM are cheap. But maybe you have an app where this
> isn't the case and you really can't avoid heavy CPU useage.
> 
> Fourth, you seem to think that threading is the only / best-practice
> way to handle a lot of requests. This is the point I'm going to argue
> against.
> 
> I'll give one counter-example because it's the one I'm most familiar
> with.
> In the Zope world, it's common to run a load balancer in front of one
> or more ZEO clients (processes) per processor, all connected to a
> single ZEO server. This is a matter of very simple configuration. It's
> *completely* transparent to the application, which has no idea whether
> you're running ZEO or have a direct connection to a dedicated ZODB
> database. ZEO has the added benefit of being equally applicable
> whether the CPUs are on one box or not. You can't say that about
> threading. This approach could certainly be used outside the zope
> world. ZEO is not rocket science, it's about 6500 lines of code plus
> 3100 lines of unit tests. Note also that ZEO's primary purpose is to
> remove one of the single points of failure; handling more requests is
> almost a side effect. Free threading won't help you with the
> point-of-failure issue.
> 
> I will also mention that it's quite possible to handle a lot of
> requests without using threads *at all*, and the resulting code can
> look very nice.  See twistedmatrix.com.
> 
> Sure, it would be nice if a single python process could take advantage
> of SMP, but it's demonstrably false that python is currently "out of
> the question" for "high performance" web use. In fact python performs
> very well on the web. To say otherwise is nothing but FUD.
> 
> I think the primary problem with the GIL is the bad publicity that
> results from faulty assumptions like this.

Okay, so it's not out of the question, but it is still not optimal! :-)

The point I was trying to make (not in this message but in general) is 
that it would be simple (trivial but tedious) to create a version of 
Python that is thread-safe, and the only reason it is not done is 
because it would break old code. So we are in this GIL world just 
because of that old code... it's a shame. It's like Visual Basic 6, it 
can't multitask properly either (but for other reasons). All other 
modern languages are free-threaded. Before I learned Python I assumed 
that it is as well. From the response I got from python-dev it seems 
that the GIL is here to stay forever, unless someone does something to 
it. I only wish I could spend a few weeks full time with Python C API, 
and make a free-threading version.

"Therefore, the rule exists that only the thread that has acquired the 
global interpreter lock may operate on Python objects or call Python/C 
API functions. In order to support multi-threaded Python programs, the 
interpreter regularly releases and reacquires the lock -- by default, 
every 100 bytecode instructions (this can be changed with 
sys.setcheckinterval()). The lock is also released and reacquired around 
potentially blocking I/O operations like reading or writing a file, so 
that other threads can run while the thread that requests the I/O is 
waiting for the I/O operation to complete."

Yuck. But then:

"The Python interpreter needs to keep some bookkeeping information 
separate per thread -- for this it uses a data structure called 
PyThreadState . This is new in Python 1.5; in earlier versions, such 
state was stored in global variables, and switching threads could cause 
problems. In particular, exception handling is now thread safe, when the 
application uses  sys.exc_info() to access the exception last raised in 
the current thread.

There's one global variable left, however: the pointer to the current 
PyThreadState structure. While most thread packages have a way to store 
``per-thread global data,'' Python's internal platform independent 
thread abstraction doesn't support this yet. Therefore, the current 
thread state must be manipulated explicitly."

Only one global variable left (in fact there is Py_None as well). Why 
not get rid of it, then??

Harri




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Sat Sep 27 21:33:26 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 11:23:26 +0950
Subject: Meta programming question
References: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbncfom.118.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:18:15 -0600, Bruce Dickey wrote:
> I've read a number of the meta progamming articles. I have not found
> what I am looking for. I want to override assignments to variables
> which are in the module namespace (not object members -- no classes
> involved).  Can this be done?

AFAIK, no.  If it were possible, it would be very confusing.

What is it you're trying to achieve?  Perhaps a better alternative can
be suggested that doesn't break expected behaviour.

-- 
 \     "Cross country skiing is great if you live in a small country." |
  `\                                                  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 12 15:46:55 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:46:55 -0500
Subject: Trouble with source-code encoding
In-Reply-To: <9u63mvoij7b8h2fh6tmj2e9af1akqjl3de@4ax.com>
References: <9u63mvoij7b8h2fh6tmj2e9af1akqjl3de@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16226.8879.100998.932787@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Fernando> I just upgraded to Python2.3 and I'm getting a weird warning complaining about
    Fernando> the encoding and asking me to read a pep.  OK, I read the Pep and know what
    Fernando> syntax to specify the enconding:
    Fernando> # -*- coding: <encoding name> -*-

    Fernando> However, th epep doesn't list the name of valid encodings.
    Fernando> What's the name for west european encoding?

That would be

    # -*- coding: latin1 -*-

or

    # -*- coding: iso8859-1 -*-

I believe.

Skip




From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 11 22:17:18 2003
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 19:17:18 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3 and Mac OS X
Message-ID: <8e6e8e5d.0309111817.2628819a@posting.google.com>

I am most pleased with Python 2.3 on Mac OS X! 

A lot of stuff just plain works, "right out of the box", so to speak,
that I had to struggle with a bit in order to install and get working
properly, before. WxPython is notable in that category, and this helps
PythonCard installation and use quite nicely. Thanks to Guido and all
who contributed to Python 2.3!

Also, I am pleased that Python 2.3 will be an integral part of the
real-soon-now to be released Mac OS X 10.3, aka Panther. Python will
soon be as mature on Mac OS X as it has already been on Linux and
Windows.

Lastly, I also want to thank the contributors to PyObjC, the "bridge"
to allow easier use of the Mac's Aqua gui-interface using Python.
Although I am only beginning to play around with PyObjC, it is nice to
have it to play around with and it seems to be a very useful tool.



From panbru at comcast.net  Tue Sep  2 09:11:13 2003
From: panbru at comcast.net (T. Panbru)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 07:11:13 -0600
Subject: Simple question: How to pass a C++ class reference to a callback?
In-Reply-To: <17fbc98a.0309020423.11ac7b8d@posting.google.com>
References: <17fbc98a.0309020423.11ac7b8d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aB-dnSBw_cewCsmiXTWJiw@comcast.com>

Try encapsulating your C++ class reference in a CObject, using:

     PyObject* PyCObject_FromVoidPtr( void* cobj, void (*destr)(void *))
     void* PyCObject_AsVoidPtr( PyObject* self)

and so forth, to go back and forth between the C++ and Python realms.

Check out the Python docs at:

     http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/api/cObjects.html

Tim

 > Harri Pesonen wrote:
> How do I pass the calling C++ class reference (or anything) to a callback?
> My code is:
> 
> static PyObject*
> emb_Set(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> {
>     char *key, *value;
>     if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &key, &value))
>         return NULL;
>     // do something with the C++ class here
>     // how the get the class instance pointer?
>     Py_INCREF(Py_None);
>     return Py_None;
> }
> 
> static PyMethodDef EmbMethods[] = {
>     {"Set", emb_Set, METH_VARARGS, "Sets the given variable."},
>     {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
> };
> 
> in C++ class:
> 
>     Py_Initialize();
>     Py_InitModule("test", EmbMethods);
>     PyRun_SimpleString(script);
>     Py_Finalize();
> 
> Harri




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Tue Sep 30 15:21:35 2003
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:21:35 -0700
Subject: Prime number module
In-Reply-To: <DPfeb.196852$R32.6326859@news2.tin.it>
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <OD3eb.9152$gi2.1152@fed1read01> <DPfeb.196852$R32.6326859@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3Jkeb.9316$gi2.2518@fed1read01>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Tim Hochberg wrote:
>    ...
> 
>>I believe you could implement a hybrid scheme that would be quite fast
>>and still maintain nearly the same level of compression that you
>>describe above. In addition to the above compressed data, also store,
>>uncompressed, every Nth prime. A binary search will get you within N
>>primes of your answer, to find the exact value, recreate those N-primes.
>>For a N of, for instance, 64 the level of compression would be minimally
>>affected but should make finding the number of primes less than a given
>>number number much faster than the basic compressed scheme.
> 
> 
> Still thinking of gmpy's primitives, I came up with a variant of this...:
> 

[Nice compact version using gmpy snipped]

Just to keep my hand in, I'm attaching a version based on the idea above 
which is in turn based on Emile's and Lulu's ideas for compression.

This produces data files that total just over 6 GB for all primes up to 
1E8. The initial run is quite slow, but after that it can determine the 
nth prime, or the number of primes below some number in about 0.5 ms on 
my box.

> The first run, building the file primes.dat (just 23048 bytes), took
> almost 7 minutes elapsed time on my machine (250 CPU seconds).  But
> any successive run is extremely fast:
> 
> [alex at lancelot perex]$ time python -O prio.py
> 5762 primes stored (1 every 1000), highest is 99991609
> 55555th prime is 686671
> Up to 555555, there are 45741 primes
> 0.06user 0.00system 0:00.14elapsed 41%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
> 0inputs+0outputs (494major+297minor)pagefaults 0swaps
> [alex at lancelot perex]$
> 
> I've coded this rapidly and sloppily, so I wouldn't be surprised if
> there were off-by-one errors here and there (needs to be checked against
> some other, independent way to generate/check primes!), but I think the
> fundamental ideas are sound.

Well one of us is off by one as I get 45740 primes below 55555. However, 
I get 686671 as the 55555th prime, so we agree there. I would not be at 
all suprised if it is mine that is off by one.

-tim

> 
> Alex
> 

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From dario at fga-software.com  Fri Sep  5 05:22:27 2003
From: dario at fga-software.com (ProgDario)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 02:22:27 -0700
Subject: Executing a Jython function from Java
Message-ID: <67a857cc.0309050122.644ea7ee@posting.google.com>

Hello,

in the site I found a lot of complicated examples, but I can't find
the simple one I'm looking for.

The problem is:

I have 1 jython file (script1.py) with a function named 'calculate',
and a java file (run.java).

I'd like to call the jython function from the java class recursively.
<<====<<

I think it can be possible to get a PyFunction object that rapresents
the function, and then call the function from the already evaluated
object, so I don't need to re-evaluate it every loop.

My code is something like this:

PythonInterpreter interp = new PythonInterpreter();
interp.execfile('script1.py');
for (int i = 0; i < 1000; i++) {
interp.eval("calculate(8)");
}

Thanks in advance,

Dario



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 16:01:36 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:01:36 GMT
Subject: why pass statement?
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com> <vmeq2go7e7fq62@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <A_J9b.13307$x21.750@twister.southeast.rr.com>

A good idea! Thanks!

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:vmeq2go7e7fq62 at news.supernews.com...
>
> You don't actally need Pass. A docstring is sufficient:
>
> class C:
>     "this is a class"
>
> while True:
>     "loop de loop de loop"
>
> John Roth





From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Fri Sep  5 10:29:56 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:29:56 +0200
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
Message-ID: <87ptifmhp7.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

Hi, 

the answer is in python FAQ:

http://python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-must-self-be-used-explicitly-in-method-definitions-and-calls

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From roberto at dealmeida.net  Tue Sep 23 10:22:08 2003
From: roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De Almeida)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 07:22:08 -0700
Subject: Playing with dictionaries
References: <10c662fe.0309220907.a84bea5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <10c662fe.0309230622.72798957@posting.google.com>

Hi, guys.

Thanks for the all the answers and the valuable insights. I mixed them
all and got what I want. :)

Roberto



From DSmorey at UnConundrum.com  Mon Sep  1 01:16:13 2003
From: DSmorey at UnConundrum.com (Daniel Smorey)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:16:13 -0400
Subject: Python Documentation?
Message-ID: <BDFC302A8B25F549A736C11D7373D2707737E0@mail2k.princelaw.com>

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to try pydoc.  It definitely takes some
getting used to.  Perl is like this to a degree also, especially since
so many people have re-invented the wheel when it comes to modules.
But, it's still a lot more straight forward than searching for python
documentation.  lol

Thanks again...

Dan S.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Welch [mailto:mack at incise.org]
> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 1:09 AM
> To: Daniel R. Smorey Jr.
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: Python Documentation?
> 
> 
> pydoc is pretty nice, try "pydoc str", and then use / to search for
> "split".
> 
> As far as searching the online docs, it takes a little adaptation.  To
> look for str.split, I'd do a google "site:www.python.org built-in
> types", and then look for str, and then look at split.
> 
> And doing just that, and clicking once or twice, brought me to:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/string-methods.html
> 
> Although I agree, it would be cool if the online 
> documentation supported
> such direct search methods as e.g. www.php.net/split.
> 
> -- 
> Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
> What is the difference between a Turing machine and the modern
> computer?  It's the same as that between Hillary's ascent of Everest
> and the establishment of a Hilton on its peak.
> 




From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Tue Sep  9 14:46:55 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:46:55 +0300
Subject: method post
References: <DSh7b.1346$95.81@newsr2.u-net.net>
Message-ID: <87llsx7qao.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

"franck" <opo at opo.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> how to do a post with python?

import nntplib

server = NNTP(nntpserver)
server.post(newsarticle)
server.quit()

Note that newsarticle should be a file object. 

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)


-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep  8 14:39:07 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:39:07 -0500
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
        <c718a6cf.0309072024.5b78b14e@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.1062997392.14538.python-list@python.org>
        <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <16220.52427.975719.335010@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> http://tinyurl.com/mlcv

    aahz> Many people, me included, won't follow tinyurl links; 

Why?

Skip




From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Fri Sep  5 15:07:08 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:07:08 +0300
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <87iso76omb.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> writes:

> I would like to know what *you* consider to be the best book you
> have read in the last few years, about Python or IT in general.

G?del, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid. It may not be the best
book I read and not very useful, but I'd recomend reading it anyway.

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 06:16:32 2003
From: syed_saqib_ali at yahoo.com (Saqib Ali)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 03:16:32 -0700
Subject: Test message. Please ignore
Message-ID: <e431ae34.0309120216.7ca12eb5@posting.google.com>

Testing.



From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Tue Sep  9 08:38:32 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:38:32 +0200
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
References: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com> <bjketo$av0$04$1@news.t-online.com> <Pine.LNX.4.50.0309091205230.2257-100000@fileserver.cluster.local>
Message-ID: <bjkhh8$qvf$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Ben Young wrote:


> [snip]
>>
>> The problem is perhaps the terminology (Unfortunatelly,I don't know a
>> better one).
>>
>> The metaclass initializes a class. Just imagine, that the textual class
>> definition comes fresh from the parser, so you have information about
>> possible base classes, methods, attributes. These information can be
>> changed within the metaclass __new__ method.
>> Think of the metaclass as a factory that turns a class definition into a
>> class instance.
>> Other than that, they don't interact.
>>
>> What a metaclass can do, is to change that information, before the class
>> is made into a class object.
>>
>> Basicly, the metaclass concept is orthogonal to the inheritence concept
>> of OOP.
>>
> 
> So the way it is implemented in python a class is NOT an instance of a
> metaclass the same way that an instance is an instance of a class. This is
> slightly confusing as this is not the way it is described in all the
> places I can find that talk about python metaclasses.

For all I know, a class is the instance of its metaclass, but this doesn't
mean that an object a of class A can access methods of A' (the metaclass of
A). (Please note that this is probably totally wrong. Other people might
shed light on this more theoretical question)

> 
> In this case, what is the point of using a class when a simple function
> can do the job?

Well, actually, there is probably nothing you can do with metaclasses that
you couldn't do in other ways.

The point (if you are not a language lawyer) is that the resulting code is
(at least in some cases) better readable when using metaclasses.

The Python cookbook (http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python) has a
couple of recipies about metaclasses. Please have a look there if you are
interested in practical things you can do with metaclasses.

> 
>> Hope that helps
>>
>> Stephan
>>
>>
> 
> Thanks for the reply
> 
> Ben
> ---




From ceiesa at excite.com  Sat Sep 27 14:59:02 2003
From: ceiesa at excite.com (Bruce Dickey)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:59:02 -0600
Subject: Any tool to translate PHP to Python?
Message-ID: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,

I have some PHP scripts I'm moving from my web server to the local PC. 
They just do file manipulation.

Anybody know of a tool for translating PHP to Python? A partial 
translation would be hwlpful.

Also, any tips or pritfalls to look out for?

I'm mostly a Python / C / C++ programmer and do not have much experience 
with PHP.

Thanks,

Bruce




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Sep 20 04:45:26 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:45:26 -0700
Subject: ANN: EmPy 3.1.1 -- A powerful and robust templating system for Python
Message-ID: <3F6C13A6.50F605B4@alcyone.com>

Summary

    A powerful and robust templating system for Python.


Overview

    EmPy is a system for embedding Python expressions and statements
    in template text; it takes an EmPy source file, processes it, and
    produces output.  This is accomplished via expansions, which are
    special signals to the EmPy system and are set off by a special
    prefix (by default the at sign, '@').  EmPy can expand arbitrary
    Python expressions and statements in this way, as well as a
    variety of special forms.  Textual data not explicitly delimited
    in this way is sent unaffected to the output, allowing Python to
    be used in effect as a markup language.  Also supported are
    callbacks via hooks, recording and playback via diversions, and
    dynamic, chainable filters.  The system is highly configurable via
    command line options and embedded commands.

    Expressions are embedded in text with the '@(...)' notation;
    variations include conditional expressions with '@(...?...!...)'
    and the ability to handle thrown exceptions with '@(...$...)'.  As
    a shortcut, simple variables and expressions can be abbreviated as
    '@variable', '@object.attribute', '@function(arguments)',
    '@sequence[index]', and combinations.  Full-fledged statements
    are embedded with '@{...}'.  Control flow in terms of conditional
    or repeated expansion is available with '@[...]'.  A '@' followed
    by a whitespace character (including a newline) expands to
    nothing, allowing string concatenations and line continuations.
    Comments are indicated with '@#' and consume the rest of the line,
    up to and including the trailing newline.  '@%' indicate
    "significators," which are special forms of variable assignment
    intended to specify per-file identification information in a
    format which is easy to parse externally.  Context name and line
    number changes can be done with '@?' and '@!' respectively.
    Escape sequences analogous to those in C can be specified with
    '@\...', and finally a '@@' sequence expands to a single literal
    at sign.


Getting the software

    The current version of empy is 3.1.1.

    The latest version of the software is available in a tarball here:
    http://www.alcyone.com/software/empy/empy-latest.tar.gz.

    The official URL for this Web site is
    http://www.alcyone.com/software/empy/.


Requirements

    EmPy should work with any version of Python from 1.5.2 onward.  It
    has been tested with all major versions of CPython from 1.5 up,
    and Jython from 2.0 up (using Java runtimes 1.3 and 1.4).  The
    included test script is intended to run on Unix-like systems with
    a Bourne shell.


License

    This code is released under the GPL.


...


Release history (since 3.1)

    - 3.1.1; 2003 Sep 20.  Added literal '@"..."' markup; added
      --pause-at-end command line option; fixed improper globals
      collision error via the 'sys.stdout' proxy.



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep  8 12:28:13 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:28:13 -0500
Subject: Ternary operator
In-Reply-To: <4qznp862.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>
        <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com>
        <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
        <mailman.1063023193.11506.python-list@python.org>
        <4qznp862.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <16220.44573.537315.750473@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Paul> Maybe it's a shame that Guido's original PEP wasn't preserved
    Paul> unaltered. What's there now doesn't capture the flavour of the
    Paul> original.

You can pick any version you like out of CVS, even if you don't have it
installed on your system.  For the PEPs, start here:

  http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/nondist/peps/

Skip




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Thu Sep 25 21:59:54 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:59:54 -0700
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vn77crf49maf4a@corp.supernews.com>

Stephen Ferg wrote:
> When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
> character?
>
> At one time, it was accepted as a truism that Windows (like MS-DOS)
> was different from Unix because Windows used the backslash as the path
> separator character, whereas Unix used the forward slash.
>
> But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this
> is a myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward
> or the backward slash as a pathname separator.
>
> I hypothesize that originally Windows accepted only the backslash, and
> then at some time it changed to accept the forward slash as well.
> Does anyone know when that change occurred?  Was it with the
> introduction of support for long filenames in NT and Win95?

Hi Steve,

Every version of Windows has accepted "/" as a path separator. So has every
version of MS-DOS beginning with DOS 2.0 (the first version that had
subdirectories).

It's only been in command lines that "/" was not allowed, because it had
already been used as a switch delimiter in MS-DOS 1.0.

-Mike





From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Mon Sep  8 19:47:28 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:47:28 -0400
Subject: os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <2ce42702.0309081441.5c73a772@posting.google.com>
References: <2ce42702.0309081441.5c73a772@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5D1510.8040205@teksavvy.com>

Hari wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have question regarding os.listdir()
>
>
>I wanted to know if this is a reliable way to check for files added to
>a directory??
>
>files = os.lisdir(path)
>
>currentlen = len(files)
>
>// directory modified 
>
>files = os.listdor(path)
>
>newlen = len(files)
>
>then the files in the range (currentlen -1) to (newlen -1) are all the
>files added to the directory.
>
>What I wanted to know was, is it guaranteed that between 2 calls
>os.listdir any files added to the directory are appended and the
>earlier order is maintained?
>  
>

Unless the documentation for os.listdir specifies such behaviour 
explicitly, you should assume the answer is /no/. There are many 
Pythons, running on many platforms; don't assume that they all share 
identical unspecified behaviour.

There's no need for such sequence guarantees, though. It's probably not 
the most efficient but here's a way to do it:

    import os
    import time

    somedir = '/tmp'
    snapshot1 = os.listdir(somedir)
    time.sleep(...)
    snapshot2 = os.listdir(somedir)

    newfiles = [f for f in snapshot2 if not f in snapshot1]

Pretty efficient, really: that's an O(n) comparison if I remember my 
Python internals correctly. Which I don't, so don't trust my word for 
it. ;-)

>thanks,
>
>Hari
>  
>
-- Graham






From soundinmotiondj at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  2 12:14:41 2003
From: soundinmotiondj at yahoo.com (Stan Graves)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 09:14:41 -0700
Subject: Advice to a Junior in High School?
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <3d6c6fc3.0308261246.32db39d5@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.09.01.20.18.27.3901@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <3d6c6fc3.0309020814.544db215@posting.google.com>

Jeremy Bowers <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.09.01.20.18.27.3901 at jerf.org>...
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:46:27 -0700, Stan Graves wrote:
> > Study literature - I have yet to see a single computer scientist who can
> > manipulate symbols as well as Shakespeare.
> 
> class Rose:
> 	"A Rose is a Rose is a Rose."""
> 	def sweetness(self):
> 		return "very"
> 
> rose = Rose()
> otherName = rose
> assert rose.sweetness() == otherName.sweetness()
> 
> Would you *notice* if a computer scientist matched Shakespeare?

Yes.  I have had the mis-fortune of being a maintenance programmer for
far too much of my life.  I have read reams of documentation, and
hundreds of thousands of lines of code.  I have attempted to make
sense of code written to do one thing, but extended and tortured into
doing another.

This may not be the computer scientists fault - but the fact remains
that the resulting system of code has little, if any, coherence across
itself, let alone a deliberate connection from it's elements to
anything that resembles the real world problem that the code was
written to give greater insight.

Then again, if an army of editors attempted to re-write Shakespeare, I
doubt seriously if anythign worth reading would have survived.
 
> How can you compare the two at all?

I can compare the two because they relate to the same larger idea. 
Literature, on its surface may simply be pretty prose.  But literature
is also meant to provide us with some greater insight into the human
condition.  Literature can be a stand-in for actual experience.  When
you read the report of Lewis and Clarke to President Jefferson, you
can get a sense of what their journey was like.  That is a journey
that can never be redone - the face of the land has changed since that
time...yet the words of the report provide a greater sense of
understanding about the men, the journey, the land, and the times.

In general, code is written to solve a greater problem than the
creation of that code.  As such, code, or its results, should provide
a greater understanding into a non-code related problem.

As such, I can say that no computer program has provided me with a
greater sense of understanding into the problem it was meant to solve,
than Shakespeare has provided me with an understand of the human
conditions that he wrote about.  Even with the precise language of
mathematics, code is generally a poor stand in for actual
understanding of a problem.
 
> Statements like that sound all profound but are really the exact opposite;
> meaningless.

I stand by my original statement.  Perhaps with the clarification that
I have provided above, you may find some greater meaning in what I
originally said.  If not, I hope we can simply agree to disagree.

--Stan Graves



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 30 13:38:09 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:38:09 -0400
Subject: Inconsistent behavior of descriptors
References: <mailman.1064938610.30070.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vnjfsmsk824n68@news.supernews.com>

"Denis S. Otkidach" <ods at strana.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064938610.30070.python-list at python.org...
>
> I've noticed that the order of attribute lookup is inconsistent
> when descriptor is used.  property instance takes precedence of
> instance attributes:
>
> >>> class A(object):
> ...     def _get_attr(self):
> ...         return self._attr
> ...     attr = property(_get_attr)
> ...
> >>> a=A()
> >>> a.__dict__
> {}
> >>> a.__dict__['attr']=1
> >>> a.__dict__
> {'attr': 1}
> >>> a.attr
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in _get_attr
> AttributeError: 'A' object has no attribute '_attr'
>
> But it doesn't when I use custom class of descriptor:
>
> >>> class descr(object):
> ...     def __get__(self, inst, cls):
> ...         return inst._attr
> ...
> >>> class B(object):
> ...     attr = descr()
> ...
> >>> b=B()
> >>> b.__dict__
> {}
> >>> b.__dict__['attr']=1
> >>> b.__dict__
> {'attr': 1}
> >>> b.attr
> 1
>
> Subclasses of property behave like property itself:
>
> >>> class descr2(property):
> ...     def __get__(self, inst, cls):
> ...         return inst._attr
> ...
> >>> class C(object):
> ...     attr = descr2()
> ...
> >>> c=C()
> >>> c.__dict__
> {}
> >>> c.__dict__['attr']=1
> >>> c.__dict__
> {'attr': 1}
> >>> c.attr
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in __get__
> AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute '_attr'
>
> Is it an undocumented feature or I have to submit a bug report?

I'm not entirely sure what you're describing, however, I
notice that your descriptor object has a __get__ method,
but no __set__ or __del__ methods. The lookup chain
is quite different for descriptors with only __get__ methods
than it is for descriptors for all three.

In particular, it's intended that instance attributes should
be ignored if there is a data descriptor (that is, a descriptor
with both__get__ and __set__ methods.)

I'm not sure if this applies to your problem.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Denis S. Otkidach
> http://www.python.ru/      [ru]
>
>





From mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com  Sat Sep 20 13:59:31 2003
From: mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:59:31 -0400
Subject: Insert into text field?
In-Reply-To: <3394585.1064074283@dbforums.com>
References: <3394585.1064074283@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <20030920135931.58707cd3.mwilson@sarcastic-horse.com>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:11:23 -0400
Baltor <member37516 at dbforums.com> wrote:

> 
> How do I enter weapondescription with a space before it at the end of
> line 3. I tried this, but it is not working:
> 
> self.text.insert(3.0, END, " ", weapondescription)


If you're trying to pass a string that has the value 

'  weapondescription'

you should put quotes around the string, or make weapondescription a
variable that has the value ' weapondescription'.

Some more background about the project you're working on might help.




From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Mon Sep  8 14:57:15 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:57:15 -0400
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <c718a6cf.0309072024.5b78b14e@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062997392.14538.python-list@python.org> <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>

Aahz wrote:

>In article <mailman.1062997392.14538.python-list at python.org>,
>Graham Fawcett  <fawcett at teksavvy.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Rather than throw stones, I have created a *brand new design* design for 
>>Python.org. I am certain that will satisfy both the technical users and 
>>the suit-wearing investigators. It borrows the time-honoured stylings of 
>>the old Python site, and blends them with some upscale business moxy.
>>
>>Take a look:
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/mlcv
>>    
>>
>
>Many people, me included, won't follow tinyurl links; please provide a
>standard URL, too.
>  
>

Okay. But please understand that my design is a *joke*... should have 
added a <wink> in there somewhere.

Do *not* send comments to anyone, esp. the marketing list! I've made my 
apologies there already.

http://fawcett.medialab.uwindsor.ca/python_org_redesign/

Thanks for the heads-up re: tinyurl. I realize that some unfriendly folk 
may enjoy sending people to goatse or some similarly unsavoury site; I 
guess I haven't been burned and have enjoyed the brevity of those URLs.

it-all-seemed-funnier-at-two-in-the-morning'ly yours,

-- Graham






From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 17:00:55 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:00:55 -0500
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
In-Reply-To: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com>
References: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16214.22151.788993.342181@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    soundwave56> I have a CSV file from excel that looks like this
    soundwave56> (simplified):

    soundwave56> name,description,type1,type2,name,filename
    soundwave56> test1,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
    soundwave56> test2,another test,1.000,0.000,newname,filename
    soundwave56> test3,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
    soundwave56> test4,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
    soundwave56> test5,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
    soundwave56> test6,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,

Take a look at the csv module delivered with Python 2.3.

Skip




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 21:11:02 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:11:02 +0300
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net> <mailman.1064580340.26537.python-list@python.org> <vijanv0lloncphml3mcjohgjukkv1eea4p@4ax.com> <bl4gtc$lmn$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <oklhnvsgr2qhou7p4hpad47isnoj7jhep4@4ax.com>

On 27 Sep 2003 17:20:44 GMT, rumours say that bokr at oz.net (Bengt
Richter) might have written:

>Do you mean windows exploder will not even delete it with right-click, delete?
>Or doesn't it show up at all? (how do you know it exists? dos dir?)

I have 110MB (or so they seem) worth of files (2893 files) in my W2k SP4
laptop's c:\recycler\nprotect folder that can't be accessed or deleted.
Norton Protect is long uninstalled, but operating on the files gives
(example):

C:\RECYCLER\NPROTECT\00041753.
The system cannot find the file specified.

The disk shows as healthy in Disk Manager, and scandisk or
what's-its-name runs successfully.  Go figure.  Ils sont fous ces
Redmontains! (index finger running wild circles)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 29 18:18:40 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:18:40 -0400
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <mailman.1064867377.30354.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vnhbutmbijoj96@news.supernews.com>

"Rob Hunter" <rob at cs.brown.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064867377.30354.python-list at python.org...
>
> On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 10:20 AM, Gerrit Holl wrote:
>
> > Rob Hunter wrote:
> >> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
> >>
> >> One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x ==
> >> type(2387482734274)) and ...
> >>
> >> but this seems kludgy.  Any better way?
> >
> > Why do you want to do so?
>
>
> I am writing an interpreter, and my parser has to decide if an
> expression is a number or not.

You can always use eval() and see what it returns.

John Roth





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 00:10:16 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 00:10:16 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com>
 <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com>
 <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com>
 <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com>
 <bjdm21$nr2$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <o+qW/kKkX4ld092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Martin Maney <maney at pobox.com> wrote previously:
|Thinking of and fetching those titles made me think of Dennett's
|_Consciousness Explained_ and _Darwin's Dangerous Idea_

Yuck!  Dennett puts the "naive" back in "naive reductionism."  He was a
little bit clever back in the 1980s when he was writing cute, and
slightly clever, analytic philosophy essays.  But then he thinks he
discovered Darwin (who was himself NEVER so naive or poorly nuanced as
Dennet), and wrote the subsequent drivel.... plus take a look for his
advocacy of the word "bright" as a weird neologistic synonym for
"secular"... well, some of you may have seen my post joking about the
word "disingenuous."  You just cannot believe how awful Dennett's notion
is to you see it yourself.

That said... if Darwin and biology are interesting to you, I can highly
recommend reading some Steven Jay Gould.  Anything, really, but the more
technical stuff includes _Ontogeny and Phylogeny_ and his masterpiece
_The Structure of Evolutionary Theory_.  Slightly ligher than those, but
a bit more than his essay collections, try _Wonderful Life_, which is
quite a nice reflection on evolution and "deep time."

Now if you want really wild, try the fairly slim _Acquiring Genomes_ by
Lynn Margulis (who brought you the procaryotic symbiosis of mitocondrial
organelles) and Dorion Sagan (her son, my acquaintance).  You need a
slight grain of salt for this book, but between a few flights of fancy
is some remarkably compelling stuff that almost no one else is doing.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From oystein at gnubg.org  Sun Sep 28 11:34:42 2003
From: oystein at gnubg.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D8ystein_Johansen?=)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:34:42 +0200
Subject: fetching a cvs repository directory from a cgi script
Message-ID: <qdDdb.33352$Hb.508282@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hi,

This may be a FAQ, but I can't find the answer. I want a cgi script to 
fetch a directory from out projects cvs repositoy. (the /doc/ directory) 
How can I fetch the files in this directory when cvs is not installed on 
the server?

-?ystein




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Tue Sep  2 18:27:57 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:27:57 -0700
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
In-Reply-To: <87y8x6x2op.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <yra3b.6546$Jh2.2048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <23891c90.0308280317.ac68b38@posting.google.com> <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <biqve2$qp0$1@panix1.panix.com> <87y8x6x2op.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20030902222756.GF30625@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting John J. Lee (jjl at pobox.com):
> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> 
> > In article <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg at speakeasy.net>,
> [...]
> > OTOH, Perens is also (like me ;-) a self-described asshole.  When I saw
> > him at the Waterside Conference earlier this year, he basically claimed
> > that only assholes could make significant progress in the Open Source
> > community.
> [...]
> 
> Why?

I think the sentiment is just a variant on the "politicians always
lie" theme. Open source is socio-political, and so it's the
charismatics that succeed. "Asshole" is one manifestation of a strong
personality.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>     http://www.gerrietts.net/
 "Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the 
          systematic organization of hatreds." --Henry Adams




From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 19:51:36 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 00:51:36 +0100
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <mailman.1062788891.30224.python-list@python.org> <bjaqpk$mnh$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87k78mlrp3.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

> "Juha Autero" <Juha.Autero at iki.fi>
> >
> > G?del, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid. It may not be the best
> > book I read and not very useful, but I'd recomend reading it anyway.
> >
> 
> I made the same recommendation some minutes ago, but without your
> reservation. In fact I might even come to the conclusion it *is* the best
> book I have read ;-)
> 
> Why do you think it is not very useful? What do you think of Shakespeare by
> the way?

[not directed at me, but I'll answer anyway...]

Well, it dazzles you with all sorts of fascinating stuff, and succeeds
at being something wonderful purely in its own right, but it fails to
actually solve any problems.  Of course, nobody can really tell him
off for that, since his subject matter revolves around what appears to
be the biggest unsolved mystery in human knowledge.


John



From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 09:10:39 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:10:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fwd: Re: Writing solid code book
Message-ID: <20030903131039.97598.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> post400 at prontomail.com (post400) writes:
> 
> > there is another famous book 'Writing solid code' but does it apply to
> > Python ? Or it's usable only by Microsoft C programmers ? The author
> > seems to be an ex-Microsoft guy !
> 
> Never read it, but from the blurb about and extract from it in my copy
> of Code Complete it certainly sounds pretty focused on C.
> 
> The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
> learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).
> 
> 
> John
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

I agree!  Python cookbook is a must-have for any [aspiring] Python 
programmer.

Writing solid code is more about avoiding errors though, I don't see
that covered in the cookbook.  Unless I missed some recipes...

Perhaps something like Kent Beck's _Test Driven Development_ would
be more easily applicable to Python than Writing Solid code.
(self.disclaimer = "Have not read it personally")






From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 00:24:32 2003
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 21:24:32 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0309072024.5b78b14e@posting.google.com>

"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list at python.org>...



> 2) The site is designed to reflect the expectations of commercial
> customers who are used to the likes of peoplesoft and atg, etc. 

all of those sites are completely useless brochure ware fluff.

A programming language web site does not NEED any graphics whatsoever!
It needs clean plain readable text that is logically and rationally
laid out with obvious textual links, also it needs to be MULTI-LINGUAL
. . . which pictures and icons are NOT multi-lingual by nature.

> also
> it's designed to project an image to set Python alongside existing 
> enterprise programming langagues (apologies for using the e word)

try picking a web site that is useable over the graphical corporate
fluff for the home page.

then put a big obvious link that says, NON-TECHNICAL PEOPLE THAT WANT
PYTHIN INFORMATION CLICK THIS! or some such thing.

Making the default home page corporate contentless brochure-ware fluff
is defiantly the quickest way to drive away the technical people,
without whom Python would not be as popular.

A completely separate brochure-ware Python for non-technical managers
site would be usefull, but making the entire site and the main page
have that function would be counter productive.

here are good useable technical sites
http://www.cetus-links.org/
http://sourceforge.net/
http://firebird.sourceforge.net/
http://www.mozilla.org/

there are many others, but they all have ONE thing in common, CLEAN
UNCLUTTERED CONSISTENT layout of information, and very very very very
few graphics and very very very little fluff.

Anything that does NOT directly convey useful infomration is FLUFF.


> 3) it's an image. Images don't stretch. If I make it any bigger
> it would not fit in 800 wide browsers. A lot of designers make a choice
> between fixed width and fluid. I would probably choose fluid for all
> but the home page however I'm looking at fluid techniques for that too.

then post the HTML that generated the image, learn from your lesson,
don't post screen shots in the future.

> Tim



From opstad at batnet.com  Thu Sep 18 18:53:17 2003
From: opstad at batnet.com (David Opstad)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:53:17 -0700
Subject: Unicode 4.0 updates to unicodedata?
Message-ID: <opstad-79936B.15531718092003@news.inreach.com>

Hi, all! I'm relatively new to Python, but have definitely fallen in 
love with it. It reminds me of Mesa (old Xerox development language) and 
LISP a bit.

Anyway, on to the question. Now that Unicode 4.0 has been released (just 
got my copy today), any guesses on how long before the unicodedata 
module will be updated to include all the new names? How do things like 
that work, anyway; is there somebody whose task it is to update that, or 
are they awaiting volunteers to help out? And once the module is 
updated, is it generally usable on earlier Python releases (I'm running 
the 2.2 that came with the OS X developer package for Jaguar)?

Cheers!

Dave Opstad



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Sep 29 15:39:12 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:39:12 -0400
Subject: A startup puzzle
In-Reply-To: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F788A60.6070402@rogers.com>

Edward K. Ream wrote:

>I've just about convinced myself there is no good, clean solution to the
>following puzzle.  I wonder if you agree.
>
>1. My app has a module called leoGlobals that contains often-used global
>functions.  All of Leo's source files start with:
>
>from leoGlobals import *
>
>I don't want to discuss whether this is good style: it is simple and it
>works well for me :-)
>  
>
Okay, we'll take that as a given then.

>2.  All code accesses the singleton application object using the app()
>method in leoGlobals.
>  
>
Sure, implements late-binding via indirection.

>3.  To make the code cleaner looking, I would really like the code to be
>able to access an app global instead of the app() function.  This has
>nothing to do with speed: it's simply that there are lots of references to
>app() in the code, and there is soon going to be a lot more references to
>app.gui.x() and app.gui.y() etc.
>
>As a workaround, many methods and functions assign a = app(), but I would
>like to avoid this step.
>  
>
This can be done by creating a built-in variable e.g. APPLICATION, which 
is an application-wide variable, like so:

    def __install( self ):
        """Install self into the builtin module"""
        __builtin__.APPLICATION = self

note that this *doesn't* help if there really are hidden dependencies in 
your modules on having the APPLICATION object defined, but given your 
description of the architecture, that doesn't appear to be the case.

>4. Alas, it does not seem possible to initialize an app global in
>leoGlobals.  The reason is simple:
>
>from leoGlobals import *
>
>caches the value of app at the time the  import is done.  But the startup
>code that creates the app "global" (really an attribute of the leoGlobals
>module) must do _other_ imports.
>
>For example, doing the following at the top of leoGlobals doesn't work:
>
>import leoApp
>app = leoApp.leoApp() # construct the app instance.
>
>Indeed, the leoApp module will be imported before the assignment of app.
>Moreover, the leoApp module does other imports, and all the app variables in
>those modules will be uninitialized.
>
>It would be horrible style to place detailed constraints on the order in
>which modules get imported, and I'm not sure even that would work.
>  
>
Such constraints will exist.  Any module which relies on the existence 
of an initialised APPLICATION variable must be imported after the 
creation of that variable.  You construct the app so that the 
APPLICATION is created ASAP and that becomes a minimal restriction, 
since your code is working, it's already passed that level of 
restriction :) .

The alternatives to such restrictions are pretty grotty; defered 
execution of suites of code that would likely require Stackless Python 
and a decent masters thesis working out the calculus of dependency 
resolution (what with needing to defer or speculatively execute each 
path in the code dependant on the app object's operation).  Luckily 
that's all just academic for your project :) .

>Any ideas for a clean solution?  Thanks.
>  
>
Cleanliness is in the eye of the beholder.  I don't really like the 
APPLICATION-object "pattern", but it is very convenient in many simple 
cases.  Just about everything else I've seen either requires something 
exotic (e.g. proxy objects implementing the late-binding indirection by 
pretending to be the app object (raising errors if anything attempts to 
use the object before it's bound)), or the solution you started with, 
i.e. using function's built-in late-binding to implement it.

HTH,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 23 00:44:35 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:44:35 GMT
Subject: Passing data out of a Sax parser
References: <fe5nmv0mno1ib23ifekntp3v3u2er5bstt@4ax.com> <SxNab.10403$BS5.7382@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <878yohajyc.fsf@pobox.com> <FMvbb.1967$gR1.320@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <87vfrlt7iy.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <TcQbb.67$RW4.29@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

John J. Lee:
> It was just a nit: you said (indirectly) that integers are mutable:
>
>
> | Either that or have startDocument create the mutable object, as
> [...]
> |     self.count = 0

Indeed I did.  In my head I was thinking "the things which change
when events come in" and that got converted to "mutable" when
I wrote it out.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep  8 19:27:46 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 23:27:46 GMT
Subject: minidom sample code
References: <59e5b87.0309081251.32b31261@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjj39i$f6p$0@216.39.172.122>

On 8 Sep 2003 13:51:06 -0700, mirandacascade at yahoo.com (Miranda Evans) wrote:

>Seeking sample python script that makes use of of xml.dom.minidom. 
>Specifically, would like to see code where xml.dom.minidom is used to
>create an output file the contents of which is an XML document.
>
>Ideally, the output file would a simple XML document such as the one
>below.
>
><?xml version="1.0" ?> 
><TrivialRootTag>TrivialContents</TrivialRootTag>
>
>Workstation O/S is Win2K; version of Python is 2.2.
>
>Can anyone point me to a documentation/link/whatever that provides
>such sample code?  Thank you.

Did you look at the xml.dom.minidom docs at

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-xml.dom.minidom.html

Taken from the first page verbatim:

 >>> from xml.dom.minidom import getDOMImplementation
 >>> impl = getDOMImplementation()
 >>> newdoc = impl.createDocument(None, "some_tag", None)
 >>> top_element = newdoc.documentElement
 >>> text = newdoc.createTextNode('Some textual content.')
 >>> top_element.appendChild(text)
 <DOM Text node "Some textu...">

Using the methods described on the second page:

 >>> newdoc.toxml()
 '<?xml version="1.0" ?>\n<some_tag>Some textual content.</some_tag>'

or:

 >>> newdoc.toprettyxml()
 '<?xml version="1.0" ?>\n<some_tag>\n\tSome textual content.\n</some_tag>\n'

and showing what that looks like printed:

 >>> print newdoc.toprettyxml()
 <?xml version="1.0" ?>
 <some_tag>
        Some textual content.
 </some_tag>

I'll leave it to you to change the spelling to match your example ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From member37516 at dbforums.com  Sat Sep 20 12:11:23 2003
From: member37516 at dbforums.com (Baltor)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:11:23 -0400
Subject: Insert into text field?
Message-ID: <3394585.1064074283@dbforums.com>

How do I enter weapondescription with a space before it at the end of
line 3. I tried this, but it is not working:

self.text.insert(3.0, END, " ", weapondescription)

Anyone?

Thanks.


--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From jason at tishler.net  Sat Sep  6 19:14:39 2003
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 19:14:39 -0400
Subject: cygwin python with Tkinter and pexpect module
In-Reply-To: <bjd4t7$gn0fe$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bjd4t7$gn0fe$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030906231439.GP1852@tishler.net>

J?rg,

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 07:16:39PM +0200, J?rg Maier wrote:
> it works in cygwin-python from command-line, but invoked in an
> Tkinter-Program i got the strange Exception:
> E:\cygwin\bin\python2.3.exe: *** unable to remap E:\cygwin\bin\tk84.dll to
> same address as parent(0x710000) != 0xC20000 28
>
> [snip]
>
> Is this a bug in cygwin tcltk?

No, you have been bitten by the Cygwin fork() issue:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=unable+remap+same+address+parent&btnG=Google+Search

The solution is to install the rebase package via Cygwin's setup.exe and
rebase your system.

Please read the README:

    http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.2.README

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6




From indigomoon at bonbonBLINDERS.net  Tue Sep 16 14:44:21 2003
From: indigomoon at bonbonBLINDERS.net (Indigo Moon Man)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:44:21 -0600
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bk7lq1$qicfh$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>

M-a-S <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> spake thusly:
> Can anybody explain this:
>
> Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
> information.
>>>>
>>>> None = 3
> <stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
>>>> False = 4
>>>> True = 5
>>>>
>>>> None, False, True
> (3, 4, 5)

http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/chap05.htm

In section 5.9 (Glossary) near the bottom of the link above I found this
entry for None...

None
A special Python value returned by functions that have no
return statement, or a return statement without an argument.

Maybe that has something to do with it.

-- 
Remove BLINDERS to email me.
Audio Bible Online:
http://www.audio-bible.com/





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Sep 24 21:15:30 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:15:30 -0400
Subject: Pre-PEP: reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
 <tth3nvcb9oprv23bincf80c74051227vgv@4ax.com>
 <vdlcb.287$kD3.194@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <bksos0$jvi$07$1@news.t-online.com>
 <ln94nv0k81rdhkv9df39u94rhelmcpguo9@4ax.com>
 <eppstein-267FAC.17110124092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <yGkc/kKkXYDY092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|> >As infinite iterators are rare, it would not be too cumbersome to
|> >let them identify themselves as such.

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote previously:
|It would be quite cumbersome to have to identify simple generators as
|infinite or finite manually, and impossible (halting problem) to do so
|reliably automatically.

Humans cannot solve the halting problem either, FWIW.  Just because a
programmer THINKS an iterator is finite, it don't mean it is!

Actually, to my mind, infinite iterators are the RULE not the exception.
Or if not actually infinite, iterators tend to be *indefinitely* large.
That is, I use an iterator because I want to deal with something at
runtime whose size is unbounded at programming time (e.g. an external
file, or data from a socket).

Overall, this makes me -1 on the whole idea of reverse iteration.

Moreover, even iterators that are known to be finite and even of
reasonable size will often be SLOW.  For example, I might naturally
write a simple generator to get data from a socket.  Each time a block
of data comes in, I take some action based on it.  I want those actions
to happen as soon as the relevant chunk of data is available, even
though the socket is probably much slower than the CPU.  If my GUI needs
to wait for ALL the data in order to play the event in reverse, that
might cause very uncomfortable pauses in the interface.  On the other
hand, if the widget updates every second (even for a couple minutes
total), that seems reasonable enough.

Yours, Lulu...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 11:55:18 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:55:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Copying latest version of the file
In-Reply-To: <ab5a234a.0309120654.3ca8487c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030912155518.83250.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com>

I've seen RPM's named that way, I think the convention is 
something like this:

packagename-majorver.minorver.bugfixver-rpmver.rpm

Here's how I would do it:

import re

rpm_name_parser = re.compile(r'^(.*)-(\d+)\.(\d+)\.(\d+)-(\d+)\.rpm$')

# a dictionary of packages and versions available
packages = {}

# ... read names of RPM's in dirA
# for example, we'll just use a list of 2 of the same package
for rpm_name in ['mypackage-1.1.0-37.rpm', 'mypackage-1.2.0-10.rpm']:
    match = rpm_name_parser.search(rpm_name)

    # panic, the name isn't right!
    if not match:
        raise ValueError()

    package_name, majorv, minorv, bugv, rpmv = match.groups()
    majorv, minorv, bugv, rpmv = map(int, [majorv, minorv, bugv, rpmv])

    package_info = packages.setdefault(package_name, [])
    version = (rpm_name, majorv, minorv, bugv, rpmv)
    if version not in package_info:
        package_info.append(version)

# order all packages by version
for p in packages:
    packages[p].sort()

# ... to get the filenames of latest versions of all packages
latest = [packages[p][-1][0] for p in packages]

for pkgfile in latest:
    print pkgfile



--- Kali K E <kalike2003 at netscape.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to Python and excuse me if this problem is very trivial. The
> problem is like this.
> There is a directory (dirA) that contains files like
> mypacakge-2.2.5-15.rpm, mypacakge-2.2.5-90.rpm,
> anotherpackage-3.4.25.rpm etc.. As can be seen, some of the files are
> new versions of same rpm (mypacakge-2.2.5-15.rpm,
> mypacakge-2.2.5-90.rpm in this example). It is also true that their
> timestamps are different. The program has to check for latest version
> of each package and copy them to another directory (dirB). That means
> in this case, it has to copy mypacakge-2.2.90.rpm to another
> directory.
> The directory dirA would be containing more than 500 files. Out of
> these many, about 100 files may be having new version.
> Another point is the number of files of same package is NOT limited to
> 2. So we may have mypacakge-2.2.5-15.rpm, mypacakge-2.2.5-90.rpm,
> mypacakge-2.2.5-100.rpm, mypacakge-2.2.5-227.rpm in dirA and only
> mypacakge-2.2.5-227.rpm has to be copied to dirB.
> The same thing has to be repeated in other directories at the same
> level as dirA.
> Please let me know how to do this.
> Thanks,
> Kali
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Sep 16 12:48:45 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:48:45 -0700
Subject: object.attribute vs. object.getAttribute()
References: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com> <bk6rmn$pop3j$1@ID-50400.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vmefnema25a6cc@corp.supernews.com>

Aurelio Martin Massoni wrote:
> Read this nice article "Why getter and setter methods are evil: Make
> your code more maintainable by avoiding accessors"
>
> http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-09-2003/jw-0905-toolbox.html

That's an interesting article. Be sure to read the comments at the end of
page 3--the real fun starts there!

-Mike





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Sep 23 23:32:31 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:32:31 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <vn1uanhqkrq2e2@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <jf8cb.594$541.16@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Raymond Hettinger]
> > Reverse iteration is much less common than forward iteration, but it
> > does arise regularly in practice.

[John Roth]
> Absolutely.

Because the question will arise, I did a quick use case analysis from
the standard library.  I'll attach the following to the PEP.  Feel free
to comment or add other use cases.


Raymond Hettinger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Use Case Analysis
=================

Here are some instances of reverse iteration taken from the standard
library and comments on why reverse iteration was necessary:

* atexit.exit_handlers() uses::
    while _exithandlers:
        func, targs, kargs = _exithandlers.pop()
        . . .
  The application dictates the need to run exit handlers in the
  reverse order they were built.  The "while alist: alist.pop()"
  form is readable and clean; however, it would be slightly faster
  and clearer with:
    for func, target, kargs in _exithandlers.iter_backwards():
          . . .
    del _exithandlers

* difflib.get_close_matches() uses::
    result.sort()           # Retain only the best n.
    result = result[-n:]    # Move best-scorer to head of list.
    result.reverse()        # Strip scores.
    return [x for score, x in result]
  The need for reverse iteration arises from a requirement to return
  a portion of a sort in an order opposite of the sort criterion.  The
  list comprehension is incidental (the third step of a Schwartzian
  transform).  This particular use case can met with extended slicing,
  but the code is somewhat unattractive and hard to visually verify::
      result.sort()
      return result[:-n-1:-1]

* heapq.heapify() uses "for i in xrange(n//2 - 1, -1, -1)" because
  higher-level orderings are more easily formed from pairs of
  lower-level orderings.  A forward version of this algorithm is
  possible; however, that would complicate the rest of the heap code
  which iterates over the underlying list in the opposite direction.

* mhlib.test() uses::
    testfolders.reverse();
    for t in testfolders:
        do('mh.deletefolder(%s)' % `t`)
  The need for reverse iteration arises because the tail of the underlying
  list is altered during iteration.

* platform._dist_try_harder() uses "for n in range(len(verfiles)-1, -1, -1)"
  because the loop deletes selected elements from "verfiles" but needs to
  leave the rest of the list intact for further iteration.  This use
  case could be more efficiently met with itertools.ifilter but the
  lambda condition and functional style would render it less readable.

* random.shuffle uses "for i in xrange(len(x)-1, 0, -1)" because the
  algorithm is most easily understood as randomly selecting elements
  from an ever diminishing pool.  In fact, the algorithm can be run in
  a forward direction but is less intuitive and rarely presented that
  way in literature.

* rfc822.Message.__delitem__() uses:
    list.reverse()
    for i in list:
        del self.headers[i]
  The need for reverse iteration arises because the tail of the underlying
  list is altered during iteration.









From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 11 14:26:19 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie-question: Fetching web-address from the browser!
In-Reply-To: <bff50f69.0309110444.55294d83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030911182619.57324.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com>

os.environ is available, I've used it in CGI scripts on 
WinNT and Win2k.  Do you mean you literally tried
os.environ[''] (i.e. a blank key)?

Anyway, creating a file with the following code should
help:
---- snip
import cgi
cgi.test()
---- snip

then punch the address of the script into your browser and
you'll find the CGI module prints a nice report about
what's available in the environment.

Also, there is a reference to standard CGI environment
variables at:  http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/cgi/env.html
(these should apply whether you're running IIS/Apache/etc)


--- dermoon <dermoon at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I want to fetch the address from the web-browser when it
> visits a page on my web-server.
> 
> I use win2k on this server.
> 
> On linux I used os.environ[''], but it seemes it's not available on
> win2k, is this correct?
> 
> However, how do I get the address-string?
> 
> Any help would be greatfully appreciated!
> 
> -Chris
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From user at domain.invalid  Mon Sep 15 16:20:19 2003
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:20:19 GMT
Subject: calling objects parents'  __init__?
Message-ID: <e13963e818473ad69d0a49230e328b91@news.teranews.com>

Normally, when I inherit from a class that I have written,
I want instances of the new class to call the __init__ of
the old (actually, starting from the top of the tree, and
moving on down).

What is the preferred way to do this?

Thanks,

Tobiah




From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Mon Sep 29 16:25:15 2003
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 13:25:15 -0700
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0309291225.259555ec@posting.google.com>

Jorge Godoy <godoy at metalab.unc.edu> wrote in message news:<m3smmfu7m7.fsf at ieee.org>...
> Hi!
> 
> 
> I must have been searching in the wrong places or with the wrong
> keywords but I couldn't find out how to implement something such as
> what is done by the threading module on Windows (95, 98 and XP are the
> ones used by my clients). My preference is for something available in
> the standard library if possible.
> 
> I have a simple task where I want my GUI to be able to open several
> applications simultaneously. Using the threading module everything
> works perfectly on Linux but the program won't run on Windows.
> 
> 
> Any hints on what should I do? 
> 
> The working code is really simple and is all what I need on both
> platforms (pseudo-code follows):
> 
> 
> import threading
> (...)
> 
> class MyApplication(...):
> (...)
>      def someMethod(...):
>          (...)
>          def temporaryFunction():
>              os.spawnv('P_NOWAIT', 'another.py', ['another.py', parameters])
>          thread = threading.Thread(target = temporaryFunction)
>          thread.start()
>      
> 
>      def anotherMethod(...):
>          (...)
>          def temporaryFunction():
>              os.spawnv('P_NOWAIT', 'yetanother.py', ['yetanother.py', parameters])
>          thread = threading.Thread(target = temporaryFunction)
>          thread.start()
> 
> 
> and so on.
> 
> (Yes, I could factor 'temporaryFunction' and reduce 5 lines of code in
> my application, but I still don't know what will be necessary to do to
> make it work on Windows, so I left it as is and factor it later.)
> 
> 
> Any hints on how to accomplish that in a portable way? Or what
> additional code will I have to use to make it work in Windows?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-process.html says
...
...
...
spawnl(mode, path, ...) 
spawnle(mode, path, ..., env) 
spawnlp(mode, file, ...) 
spawnlpe(mode, file, ..., env) 
spawnv(mode, path, args) 
spawnve(mode, path, args, env) 
spawnvp(mode, file, args) 
spawnvpe(mode, file, args, env) 
...
...
...
Availability: Unix, Windows. spawnlp(), spawnlpe(), spawnvp() and
spawnvpe() are not available on Windows. New in version 1.6.
...
...
...
Regards
Peter



From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Sep  5 09:28:30 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:28:30 GMT
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <2c06b.63986$0u4.8363@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <opruzmelopdd8opo at news.vo.lu>, Patrick Useldinger wrote:

> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am 
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across 
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like 
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
> few years, about Python or IT in general.

Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_

Dave Cook



From stephan.delete-schaumann at online.de  Fri Sep  5 10:33:17 2003
From: stephan.delete-schaumann at online.de (Stephan Schaumann)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:33:17 +0200
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <bja6rb$h4b$1@svr8.m-online.net>

"Richard Wesley" <hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com> schrieb:
> I don't know if this is really a Python question of a MySQL question,
> but i am hopen that there is enough overlap that someone can help me ;-)
>
> I have a unit test suite for our server that loads a clean database
> image for many of the tests.  I use
>
> p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
> p.write(sql_commands)

Do you p.close() when you are finished? Otherwise the connection opend by
mysql will stay open.

> to load the database.
>
> While the tests are running, I find that mysql has a growing number of
> "Sleeping" threads in the 'show processlist' table.  Towards the end of
> the test suite, the database loads start to fail with a MySQL error of
> "ERROR 1040: Too many connections".
>
> So my question would be, is there any way to shut down the child process
> so that MySQL notices and cleans up after itself before it runs out of
> threads?





From graham__fawcett at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  9 13:11:45 2003
From: graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 10:11:45 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list@python.org> <m3smn772ka.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
Message-ID: <e9570f37.0309090911.20b78f61@posting.google.com>

Nick Vargish <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote in message news:<m3smn772ka.fsf at tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>...
> I really like the idea of the PSF selling boxed python distros for
> around $300. People who make the business decisions _like_ spending
> money on a product -- it's somehow comforting to them. Include bound
> copies of the Tutorial and Library Reference, to give the box some
> weight and make it clear that they are paying for something more than
> a CD of "free software". (Spiral bound documents, please!)
> 
> I'm hoping that my boss will be shelling out for some Komodo Pro
> licenses, partly for the above reason. The other part of the reason is
> that once money is spent on something, it becomes more entrenched in
> an organization. This will serve to counter the PHB attitude that "if
> it costs nothing to bring in, it will cost nothing to throw out."

We bought Komodo licences for the same reason. ActiveState has been a
great friend to us, though we've never been introduced; they certainly
deserve a few bucks. And yes, I'd get our dept. to purchase PSF
distros as well for the same reason.

Lulu, if you're reading this: if you manage to sell any Gnosis boxed
sets, would you mind sending me a little share, in thanks for coming
up with the idea? I need a new canoe myself. ;-)

-- Graham



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Wed Sep  3 09:22:36 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:22:36 -0400
Subject: Simple question: How to pass a C++ class reference to a
 callback?
References: <17fbc98a.0309020423.11ac7b8d@posting.google.com> <aB-dnSBw_cewCsmiXTWJiw@comcast.com>
 <uznhn5hlp.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <OJ35b.2277$ZB4.660@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <uvfsauhur.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>> "T. Panbru" <panbru at comcast.net> writes:
>> 
>>>Try encapsulating your C++ class reference in a CObject, using:
>>>
>>>     PyObject* PyCObject_FromVoidPtr( void* cobj, void (*destr)(void *))
>>>     void* PyCObject_AsVoidPtr( PyObject* self)
>>>
>>>and so forth, to go back and forth between the C++ and Python realms.
>>>
>>>Check out the Python docs at:
>>>
>>>     http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/api/cObjects.html
>>>
>> Or use one of the high-level wrapping tools such as Boost.Python
>> (http://www.boost.org/libs/python) which make this stuff much easier
>> and safer.
>
> Boost.Python is not 2.3 compatible yet, but it seems very good.

The CVS version is 2.3 compatible; you can download a snapshot from
http://www.boost-consulting.com/boost.tar.bz2 or you can access our
anonymous CVS or a mirror (about a day behind).

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep 29 10:33:03 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:33:03 +0200
Subject: Google newsgroup "Unable to find thread" message?
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0309290617.799b800d@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0309290617.799b800d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030929143303.GB6750@nl.linux.org>

Stephen Ferg wrote:
> Subject: Google newsgroup "Unable to find thread" message?

> I use the newsgroup mainly via my Web browser and Google.  
> 
> Over the last few days, when I click on a link to a thread, I've been
> frequently getting the message "Unable to find thread."
> 
> Does anybody know what's going on?

It seems to be a Google problem. It is not limited to c.l.py...

Gerrit.

-- 
238. If a sailor wreck any one's ship, but saves it, he shall pay the
half of its value in money.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  5 09:38:16 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:38:16 +0100
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <3F5891C8.A7DD1A20@hotmail.com>

Patrick Useldinger wrote:

> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am
> trying to find a book or two to read there. .. I would like
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last
> few years, about Python or IT in general.

I had a few weeks in hospital last Christmas/New Year, and bought
myself "Mastering Regular Expressions", by Friedl, before I went in,
thinking it was an ideal opportunity to catch up on some reading.

http://regex.info/

However, once I was in there, I never even opened the book. I was too
busy focussing on getting healthy again.

If you've got to spend a couple of weeks in hospital, spend it wisely:
focus primarily on your health! The days and weeks after a
medical/surgical procedure are the crucial healing period that will
determine whether or not you'll remain healthy or be back for the same
procedure again next year.

All that work stuff, and related stuff, should wait until you're ready
for it again.

On a lighter note, a fantastic book that I really enjoyed reading (for
leisure) was

Kil'n People, by David Brin.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/used/-/1841491381/

It's nothing less than a masterpiece of modern sci-fi. IMHO :-)

Best wishes for good health!

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From spatel at landrum-brown.com  Tue Sep 30 09:54:41 2003
From: spatel at landrum-brown.com (Samir Patel)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:54:41 -0500
Subject: Is this is bug or something change in Python 2.3
Message-ID: <200309300854.42105.spatel@landrum-brown.com>

I am calling __import__. It works fine with python 2.1 to 2.2.3, but does not 
work for python 2.3 and 2.3.1. 

I have 2 files x.py in current directory and mytest.py file in subfolder 
'subdir' as follows:

bash-2.05b# ls -lR
.:
total 5
drwxrwxrwx    2 root     root          112 Sep 30 08:19 subdir
-rw-rw-rw-    1 root     root          107 Sep 30 08:19 x.py

./subdir:
total 8
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root           28 Sep 30 08:13 mytest.py
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          135 Sep 30 08:19 mytest.pyc



bash-2.05b# cat x.py
import os
os.chdir (os.getcwd() + '/subdir')
itemText = 'mytest'
moodule = __import__(itemText, globals())



bash-2.05b# cat subdir/mytest.py
import os
print os.getcwd()
bash-2.05b#



bash-2.05b# /usr/bin/python2.2 x.py
/tmp/test/subdir


bash-2.05b# /usr/bin/python2.1 x.py
/tmp/test/subdir


bash-2.05b# /usr/bin/python2.3.1 x.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/tmp/test/x.py", line 4, in ?
    moodule = __import__(itemText, globals())
ImportError: No module named mytest

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From llafba at gmx.net  Tue Sep 16 04:09:48 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:09:48 +0200
Subject: list of lists
In-Reply-To: <bk4k46$ort$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de> <bk4k46$ort$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bk6gn4$57m$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi guys,

thanks to everyone.
My mistake was that I had no idea that writing [][] NEXT to each other
goes into depth. I always tried different varieties of [[]] to get into
the deeper lists!
Thanks again.

CU Tom




From graham__fawcett at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  9 13:30:00 2003
From: graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 10:30:00 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list@python.org> <bjkk32$tkk@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <e9570f37.0309090930.4ed47c97@posting.google.com>

"Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<bjkk32$tkk at newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>...
> "Graham Fawcett" <fawcett at teksavvy.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list at python.org...
> 
> > Developers will always be first-class Python users; it's a programming
> > language, after all. Whether they should be first-class users of
> > www.python.org, in my humble opinion, is questionable.
> 
> I don't think so. They *are* the primary users of www.python.org
> If you're suggesting that to give a professional feel, we should be like
> Microsoft by moving around content so nobody can find it any more,
> I strongly disagree.

So would I!

> I exaggerate, of course. However, although, I am not a complete
> purist about it, keeping deep links (like say the PEPs) from breaking
> should be part of the aim of the redesign. I'm sure it is.


I agree. All I'm really saying (and I think you'll mostly agree) is that

-- we developers are not the only Python audience

-- the other audiences are interested in different facets of Python, i.e. not
   the docs and downloads

-- therefore it makes sense to give each group different messages/content

-- we are technically sophisticated (at least I hope we are)

-- some (many?) members of other audiences are not

-- technically-minded people know how to find sites, no matter where they
   are "hidden", through instinct, reading skills, and Google.

-- giving the easiest-to-find site to the less technically sophisiticated 
   is a just course of action

-- we are a just organization 
   (if there's a flaw in my argument, this is probably it! ;-)

-- therefore, give the www.python.org site to the less technically-minded
   audiences.

That's all pretty rational. I'd add the following, purely an opinion:

-- a Python marketing group, well-rounded and well-informed, ought to
   determine what goes on the 'non-developer' portal, bearing in mind that
   developers are an important audience, but not the primary audience, of the
   'non-developer' portal (www.python.org).

-- developers who are incensed by this arrangement should either

   a) boycott the www.python.org site, spending all their time at 
      dev.python.org

      or

   b) be rounded up, restrained and forced to view the new www.python.org site
      with eyelids sewn open, until they come to appreciate how wonderful a 
      job the marketing team has done.

Whether it's (a) or (b) I'll leave up to our Dictator for Life, and we'll see
just how Benevolent he really is. ;-)

-- Graham



From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Sep  5 06:48:11 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guetttler)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:48:11 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.05.10.48.10.989102@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:16:59 +0200 schrieb Patrick Useldinger:

> Hi All,
> 
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am 
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across 
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like 
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
> few years, about Python or IT in general.

Hi Patrick,

I suggest the Python Cookbook.

 thomas




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 03:21:30 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:21:30 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <1NFcb.62896$gV.2762@news2.central.cox.net> <dp6db.7740$541.7674@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <eppstein-4EED61.00082227092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <2rdanvoouhnq5gqj2lrmjr3uci3leu9ua0@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:08:22 -0700, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>Speaking of which: str, int, etc., used to be functions, but they got 
>changed to be the initializers of types having those names.  Why is 
>xrange still a function rather than the initializer of the xrange type?

"""
Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> xrange
<type 'xrange'>
"""

Looks like a type rather than a function to me, and the help appears
to be very good. Enumerate also seems to be a type with an
initialiser.

Are you using an earlier version?


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Tue Sep 16 00:27:29 2003
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:27:29 +0200
Subject: how can I use Berkeley DB XML 1.1.0 from Python 2.3 (on Windows) ?
Message-ID: <Xns93F84251569B0cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

 
I found Berkeley DB XML while searching for XML-Databases.

I want to use it from PYHTON - and I found examples.py in the 
distribution. But... examples.py tries to import 

from dbxml import *
from bsddb3.db import *

 
I do not have dbxml or bsddb3 on my computer ... using Python 2.3, I 
think bsddb3 is superceeded by bsddb

but where do I get dbxml?

Googling gave me a some hits, but they all appeared to be other dbxml 
modules than being connected to berkeley db xml

reading the FAQs pointed me to installation-instructions on MAC OS, they 
were still dealing with installing bsddb3 ... as much I understand from 
"python 2.3 what's new" - bsddb3 ist integrated. No word about Module / 
package dbxml there, either.


Tnx
 
Harald
 



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 07:46:48 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:46:48 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <001b01c37535$38848030$0a00a8c0@JASPER>
Message-ID: <001c01c37535$be4fc080$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Apologies for multiple posts






From david.bear at asu.edu  Tue Sep 16 23:53:28 2003
From: david.bear at asu.edu (David Bear)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 20:53:28 -0700
Subject: testing the data-type of a stream
Message-ID: <m3ad94ax53.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>

I'm writing a filter and would like to be able to do what the Linux
'file' command does, i.e. look at a couple of bytes to see what kind of
data I'm dealing with, the branch based on the type. 

I scanned the python library and couldn't find anything that seemed to
approximate this.  I know I could do os.popen and call the file
command then parse the output, but would rather not if there is a
regular python module that can do it for me.

any recommendations?

--
David Bear
phone: 	480-965-8257
fax: 	480-965-9189
College of Public Programs/ASU
Wilson Hall 232
Tempe, AZ 85287-0803
 "Beware the IP portfolio, everyone will be suspect of trespassing"



From stuart at bmsi.com  Wed Sep 10 18:20:45 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:20:45 -0400
Subject: getrusage
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.10.22.20.45.366720.31273@bmsi.com>

When I call resource.getrusage on Linux, I don't get any memory stats:

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jan 30 2003, 21:26:22) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-112)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from resource import getrusage,RUSAGE_SELF
>>> print getrusage(RUSAGE_SELF)
(0.019531, 0.0078119999999999995, 0, 0, 0, 0, 178, 387, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
>>> 

On AIX, I get the correct numbers.

What is the goal?  I need to find a memory leak in an extension module.
For starters, I was going to find extension method calls that produce
unexpected memory use (and I found some on AIX - but our 12 year old AIX
system is *so* slow).  Suggestions are welcome.



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Sep  5 05:08:48 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:08:48 +0200
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <yra3b.6546$Jh2.2048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <23891c90.0308280317.ac68b38@posting.google.com> <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <biqve2$qp0$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bj9jrv$95r$1@news.hccnet.nl>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>OTOH, Perens is also (like me ;-) a self-described asshole.  When I saw
>him at the Waterside Conference earlier this year, he basically claimed
>that only assholes could make significant progress in the Open Source
>community.  Linus and Guido are obvious counter-examples in some
>respects, but as you point out, they're not really interested in a
>spokesmodel position.

This a dangerous meme so I'll try to expose its working mechanism.

First two related forms:

"Thanks to microsoft which squished all the competition on the
software market, we now have standards and all computer programs are
compatible with the other surviving computer programs"

"Firing people is hard, nobody wants to do the dirty work, so we need
people who don't care about other people to be in charge of big
companies and accordingly they should be paid top salaries"

Excuse my English, but I still hope the readers get the general idea
behind those and other expressions of this very dangerous meme.

The general working mechanism seems to be to accept the current state
of affairs as unavoidable and to deny the possibility that things
could have gone different. Since the "what if" question is paramount
to all progress, this is an effective way to inhibit the creative and
critical capabilities in the human brain.

Countermeasures:

Since the meme takes different forms all the time one could create a
pattern recognition scheme to identify it and generate antimemes using
a template. For example a derived antimeme for the microsoft form
would be:

-If microsoft hadn't stalled progress in software development by
hiding the algorithms used for their software we would *now* be there
where we will be in twenty years.

An antidote to the antisocial big company leader:

-If people at the top are enriching themselves without any
consideration for those who they should be leading, people lower in
the hierarchy will take this as a role model. One ends up with a lot
of people that don't care.

Anton






From john at rygannon.com  Thu Sep 11 11:54:33 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:54:33 GMT
Subject: Problems with setting up mod_python and Apache
References: <3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <4zK7b.11532$NW3.6643@news1.central.cox.net> <jXO7b.14165$NW3.10353@news1.central.cox.net> <3f605bee$0$199$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <Y1_7b.129$o71.119@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3f609ad5$0$234$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi Steve
Thank you very much for your reply
Funnily enough I sorted out Apache problem before reading you post. Thanks
all the same.
I have mod_python working like a dream. So now in to the hard part. I hope
you won't mind if I explain. The project I am working on, Rekall, contains
serveral WSYWIG designers. Two of these designers are of particular interest
for what I have in mind - the Form and Report Designers. Form and Report
definitions are stored in XML format either as a file in the file system or
in a SQL Database. The basic idea is to load a string object with the form
or report definition. Then using Pythons XML DOM module build a HTML
document plus the required SQL query string(s). If it is a form then we'll
will need to build both the HTML data input form and the backend form
processor. I guess this will need a publisher handler. I expect Reports to
be a lot easier, but since I am talking about several report output during a
single session I suppose I will need to get my head around dynamic handlers.
Now that's frightening

-- 
Best Regards
John



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 19 14:58:02 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:58:02 -0500
Subject: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
In-Reply-To: <dnfmmv0n8evvu238thm96t3k2iff7dm33d@4ax.com>
References: <dnfmmv0n8evvu238thm96t3k2iff7dm33d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16235.20922.932775.43117@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Daniel> http://www.dailyllama.com/news/2003/llama206.html

I particularly liked the last sentence:

    Casting for SPAMELOT will begin shortly. Run away.

Skip




From oystein at gnubg.org  Wed Sep 17 16:19:44 2003
From: oystein at gnubg.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D8ystein_Johansen?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:19:44 +0200
Subject: texi2html in a cgi ?
In-Reply-To: <33803989.0309171007.28ca7fda@posting.google.com>
References: <8vL9b.30567$Hb.466972@news4.e.nsc.no> <33803989.0309171007.28ca7fda@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rm3ab.23527$os2.327309@news2.e.nsc.no>

Miki Tebeka wrote:
> I see two ways:
> 1. Write the texi file to disk (use tempfile.mkstemp) and run the script
>    (using os.system) on it and send back the result
> 2. Import texi2html (make sure it's in sys.path) and use it (this is not tested...)
> ----
> from texi2html import TexinfoParser, HTMLHelp
> from tempfile import mkdtemp
> from os.path import dirname, join
> 
> def to_html(file):
>     '''Convert texinfo to html. Return top html file'''
>     outdir = mkdtemp()
>     parser = TexinfoParser()
>     parser.sethtmlhelp(HTMLHelp("",""))
>     parser.setincludedir(dirname(file))
>     parser.setdirname(outdir)
>     parser.parse(open(file))
>     return join(outdir, "%s.html" % parser.topname)

It works locally with the file below:

#!/usr/bin/python
from texi2html import TexinfoParser, HTMLHelp
from tempfile import gettempdir
from os.path import dirname, join
 

def to_html(file):
     '''Convert texinfo to html. Return top html file'''
     outdir = gettempdir()
     parser = TexinfoParser()
     parser.sethtmlhelp(HTMLHelp("",""))
     parser.setincludedir(dirname(file))
     parser.setdirname(outdir)
     parser.parse(open(file,"r"))
     return join(outdir, "%s.html" % parser.topname)
 

to_html("faq.texi")

It creates several html files in /tmp/, one file for each section, but 
how do I create only one file, faq.html?

> Remeber to delete the directory from time to time ...

I will!

>>(Unexperienced Python programmer, who has just fallen in love with this 
>>beautiful programming language.)
> 
> The more you'll know the deeper you'll fall in love :-)

More and more each day!

Thanks,
-?ystein




From edreamleo at charter.net  Mon Sep 29 17:27:39 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:27:39 -0500
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <gandreas-21AC09.14161229092003@news.mpls.visi.com>
Message-ID: <vnh8uh5j8e3i44@corp.supernews.com>

> Perhaps using a proxy object...might work:

Great idea!  Some complications:

1. Sometimes the test "if not realApp:" causes unbounded recursion.  To
avoid any possibility of this happening the startup code just creates the
app object before any code actually uses the app proxies.  This is easily
done.

2. A __call__ method in the proxy allows the code to use either app().x or
app.x.

In short, the following pattern appears like it will work in all my modules:

from leoGlobals import *
app = leoProxy() # leoProxy defined in leoGlobals
# Now the code can reference either app.x or app().x.

To do this, I use the following code:

gApp = None # Set before any reference to proxy.
class leoProxy:
  def __getattr__(self,attr):
    return getattr(gApp,attr)
  def __call__(self):
    return gApp

Many thanks for this great idea.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------








From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep  9 16:16:45 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:16:45 -0400
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vlsd93p4kp004b@news.supernews.com>

"Marco Herrn" <herrn at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> I am writing a program that has to instantiate a class from which I
> don't know the name until runtime. That leads to two problems for me.
>
> 1. How to do the import? I didn't find a way to give a string to the
>    import statement.

As Nick said, you can use the exec statement. You can
also use the _import() function.

> 2. How to write such code to instantiate?
>
> The first is a problem, when I don't know where the classes reside.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Modules exist on disk in
a directory. There may be more than one class in a module,
and there is no way of automatically asking for a class and
having the module containing that class loaded.

> Currently it is planned that all these classes reside in a specific
> subdirectory. Is it possible to say 'import * from subdirectory' ?

No. It is possible to load the names of all the modules in the
subdirectory, though. That doesn't tell you what classes are in
each module unless you either establish some standards or use
a configuration file of some kind.

You could, of course, simply import all of the modules, and then
loop through them looking for the classes.

> What other problems could occur here and how could I avoid them?

The biggest problem I can see is name collisions, and that's only
a problem if you don't establish standards, and use the simplest
method, which is to use the identifier that the import statement
adds to the module.

> And to the second question, I have no idea about how to do this. Any
> hints?

As Nick points out, the easiest way is simply to build an import
statement, and then exec it.

John Roth
>
>
> Bye
> Marco
>
> -- 
> You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
>
> --
> Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
> (GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
> Key ID: 0x94620736
>





From rune.hansen at viventus.no  Sat Sep 27 06:41:14 2003
From: rune.hansen at viventus.no (Rune Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:41:14 +0200
Subject: Unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
In-Reply-To: <3f755040-60d3252a-a4c8-4da8-850c-4dd661983a2d@news.szn.dk>
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no> <3f755040-60d3252a-a4c8-4da8-850c-4dd661983a2d@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <fPddb.26095$os2.360490@news2.e.nsc.no>

Hi , yes, of course *blush*.
Thanks

/regards

/rune

Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
> Rune Hansen wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>>unicode("Gratis ?l","iso-8859-1")
>>
>>u'Gratis \xf8l'
>>
>>>>>ord("\xf8")
>>
>>248
>>
>>What I need is the converted string to read u'Gratis \248l' (*
>>How do I do this without going through each and every character
>>of the string?
> 
> 
> How about
> 
> #v+
> 
> 
>>>>print unicode('Gratis ?l', 'iso-8859-1').encode('utf-8')
> 
> Gratis ??l
> 
> 
> #v-
> 
> 
>   // Klaus
> 




From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 16 18:57:13 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:57:13 -0400
Subject: Fw: Re: how to build a list of mx.DateTime objects from a start and
  end     date?
Message-ID: <20030916185713.6677dc4d.python@sarcastic-horse.com>

I wrote a generator to do it like so:

def dr(startdate, enddate):
	mm = mx.DateTime.RelativeDateTime(months=1)
	while startdate <= enddate:
		yield startdate
		startdate += mm


I created the list with:

>>>> import mx.DateTime
>>>> nov1999 = mx.DateTime.Date(1999, 11)
>>>> mar2003 = mx.DateTime.Date(2003, 3)
>>>> alldates = [d for d in dr(nov1999, mar2003)]

This was my first generator!



> Hi-
>
>
> I want to make a list of mx.DateTime objects that cover all the monthly
> intervals between two points.  For example:
>
>>>> import mx.DateTime
>>>> nov1999 = mx.DateTime.Date(1999, 11)
>>>> mar2003 = mx.DateTime.Date(2003, 3)
>>>> alldates = mk_list(startdate=nov1999, enddate=mar2003)
>>>> alldates
> [ ... a bunch of mx.DateTime objects including and between the startdate
> and enddate ...]
>
> How would I do something like this?
>
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 08:52:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:52:59 +0100
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063856727.16858.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r82e6yxg.fsf@pobox.com>

Ken Godee <ken at perfect-image.com> writes:

> Lothar Scholz wrote:
[...]
> I downloaded it all right from there site, Qt<->python converted html
> docs as well (except ODBC, on win32 I use pyscopg).
> 
> Know matter how you look at it, This is a GREAT DEAL, just for the
> Qt/pyqt license issue's alone!
> The kompany has put together a good deal with Trolltech and riverbank
> for python users. $79 personal and $399 commercial with rights to
> distribute the run-time elements.
> I guess one could stick with straight c++ and pay trolltech $2,000
> plus per developer instead if you wanted to :)
> (opps, for win32 platform development might want to spend another
> grand+ to compile with MS VC++ compiler)

John, is Ken right that buying the commercial BlackAdder license means
you don't have to pay for the TT license too?  Certainly a good deal
if so.


John



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 15 03:32:51 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:32:51 +0200
Subject: pyc2py
In-Reply-To: <bk3p54$8ed$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
References: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de>
	<bk3p54$8ed$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3F656B23.8090808@ghaering.de>

News M Claveau /Hamster-P wrote:
> Pirate ?

Pardon? There are lots of legitimate reasons for reverse-engineering.

-- Gerhard




From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  8 11:02:36 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:02:36 +0200
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
	<3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3F5C9A0C.9060705@ghaering.de>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Could someone remind me what need there is for a redesign in the first
> place?  Of all the Python-related efforts that one could put time into,
> this seems like one of the least useful.

I guess (I may be wrong) that Tim Parkin is not a developer, but 
apparently he has experience with web design. For some reason he chose 
to volunteer for proposing a redesign of the Python homepage (foolishly 
so, he might think by now). There's hardly any point in you telling him 
what to spend his time on for free, is there? :-/

Generally, in the open source community there's no point in telling 
people what they should do. Of those that are involved with open source 
in their spare time, everybody contributes to what are her or his 
priorities, according to their skills. Many of these projects might be a 
waste of time, but neither of your time nor mine :-)

I dislike the connotation that web design (or writing documentation) 
would be less valuable than more technical contributions to Python.

-- Gerhard




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Sep 27 16:38:44 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 06:38:44 +1000
Subject: Microbiology and/or image analysis tools
In-Reply-To: <45bbfad.0309271119.386ded65@posting.google.com>
References: <45bbfad.0309271119.386ded65@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1064695124.1189.2.camel@emilio>

On Sun, 2003-09-28 at 05:19, BW Glitch wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've been searching on the web for microbiology and or image analysis
> tools in any language (but I would prefer to be in Python ;), but I
> haven't found anything useful. Almost every library I've found is
> commercial. The only one I've seen open source is OpenEV (
> http://openev.sourceforge.net/ ).
> 
> Is there any library open source available in these areas?

I don't know if it is written in Python (probably not), but iPath might
be of interest to you, maybe - see http://ipath.sourceforge.net/ - it is
certainly an interesting and commendable project.

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0


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From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 09:46:42 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:46:42 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <a4G6b.147132$Ij4.43009@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <000401c37546$7bf10760$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Jeff Hinrichs said:
> [...snip...]
> I agree that the python.org site could use a face-lift, however, my
> concern with the design presented is along the lines of page size
and/or
> browser compatibility.  If you design via CSS using too many of the
newer
> features some older browsers will have problems rendering, if you
don't
> use CSS for that layout then you'll be using too many graphics.  You
> should keep in mind the fact that Python is used internationally. 
> So bandwidth, browser compatibility and internationalization are all
> very valid concerns.
>
> If the redesign limits the number of people who can access it's
> information or hinders their access to the same then I would be (-1)
> on the effort. Remember, that the most popular and highly used sites,
> i.e. google and yahoo, are quite boring in a design sense but are off
> the chart for usability and accessibility.  It's the content and the
> accessibilty to that content that has made them so popular.  I would
> vote to emulate these attributes in any python website redesign. 

Although it is true that a lot of css 'hacks' prohibit the viewing of
websites in older browsers, this is by no means a rule. One of the prime
considerations in the redesign and a very early discussion was about
accessibility. As far as we discussed, the site would be as accessibile
as possible whilst not having to work to the lowest common denominator.
It is perfectly possible to create designs that work quite well in older
browsers but without some of the decorative/style elements whilst
allowing more modern browsers to use the facilities for which the w3c
have worked so hard to create. 

The main culprit in limiting the use of these standards is Netscape 4.
As long as the website renders in such a way as to provide all of the
functionality of the site then it is a general consensus that this would
be adequate. (for instance, the netscape version of the redesign might
lose some of the menu item box surround, the curved line, the boxes
etc).

As for bandwidth, the use of css designs (and I hasten to add, not
necessarily table-less designs) can reduce bandwidth incredibly. The
current site is a very respectable 22k and I would look to getting the
whole of the new design in at around 30k (for home page, graphics can
be made 20k without significant loss) and considerably less for
interior pages as the only graphics will have been cached, around
18k or maybe less.

For Google, I agree it's very usable but it also only has one main
purpose (a search box and few links). The Python site has to satisfy
many purposes, some of which act as almost contradictory to what
developers may wish for. I hope I've reached a compromise as the main
page will not be the one most used by developers and will be the one
of most imortance to IT decision makers.

For Yahoo, however, I think it's an absolute mess and is widely used
as an example of a badly designed site as far as usability is
concerned (I refer to more recent yahoo designs). For accessibility,
well, it takes 71 cursor movements to get to the 'Internet' category.

Hope this lays a few of your concerns to rest


Tim Parkin






From mwh at python.net  Thu Sep  4 06:16:40 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:16:40 GMT
Subject: Quickie mail.python.org status
References: <727daa7e.0309031140.1af820b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3ptigg8ul.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) writes:

> (Posted via Google so some fraction of the c.l.py community sees
> it. :-)
> 
> I noticed that python-related mail has been at best trickling in today,
> so took a quick peek at mail.python.org.  Since 4am today exim has
> rejected over 15,000 messages because they contained executable
> attachments or suspicious (sobig-style) subjects.  I'm sure that's nothing
> compared to sites like SourceForge or AOL, but it conspires to keep
> useful mail from flowing through that machine.

What happened to the firewall hack?  I didn't think exim was supposed
to be *seeing* the sobig stuff...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a
  pencil with a blunt axe.  It is equally vain to try to do
  it with ten blunt axes instead.
      -- E.W.Dijkstra, 18th June 1975. Perl did not exist at the time.



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  8 13:19:32 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:19:32 +0200
Subject: Get the date of last modification of a file
In-Reply-To: <rE27b.45940$R32.1458201@news2.tin.it>
References: <rE27b.45940$R32.1458201@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F5CBA24.1060006@ghaering.de>

Manuel Bastioni wrote:
> It's possible using only a built-in module?

Sure:

 >>> import os, stat
 >>> s = os.stat("c:/tmp")
 >>> time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M", time.localtime(s.st_mtime))
'2003-09-08 19:17'

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

What a stupid thing to say.

-- Gerhard




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Sep 12 11:51:21 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:51:21 -0600
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
In-Reply-To: <37ee60c8.0309120616.794e2bf1@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
 <221d8dbe.0307160619.2c2943c3@posting.google.com>
 <221d8dbe.0308150959.b18167c@posting.google.com>
 <37ee60c8.0309120616.794e2bf1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030912094842.0380cb90@66.28.54.253>

At 08:16 AM 9/12/2003, Ajith Prasad wrote:

>Would appreciate any advice on how to get started with the script.
>Created an empty spreadsheet "test.xls" on drive F. Then at the
>PythonWin prompt tried and obtained:
> >>> xlapp=UseExcel("f:\test.xls")

What precedes this code> Where does UseExcel() come from?

Try "f:\\test.xls" (\t is the tab character and must be escaped)

>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>   File "UseExcel.py", line 16, in __init__
>   File "<COMObject <unknown>>", line 2, in Open
>com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, 'Microsoft Excel',
>"'f:\test.xls' could not be found. Check the spelling of the file
>name, and verify that the file location is correct.\n\nIf you are
>trying to open the file from your list of most recently used files on
>the File menu, make sure that the file has not been renamed, moved, or
>deleted.", 'C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft
>Office\\Office10\\1033\\xlmain10.chm', 0, -2146827284), None)

[snip]

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 19:39:33 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:39:33 +0100
Subject: problem with user confirmation
References: <ec1162c7.0309181523.2077b7e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkdfg7$lga$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Matthew" <ruach at chpc.utah.edu> wrote in message
news:ec1162c7.0309181523.2077b7e5 at posting.google.com...
> I am have written a medium sized program and everything works fine
> except for one piece. At a certain point in the program I want to do a
> simple user confirmation, eg Are you sure ? y/n. The problem that I am
> having is that after the user enters an answer and presses enter, the
> program executes the rest of the code regardless of what the user
> response was.
>
> Heres my code:
>
> def confirmAction(self, msg):
> if not msg:
> msg = 'Are you sure y/[n]> '
> print msg
> confirm = sys.stdin.readline()[:-1]
> print 'confirm = \'%s\'' %(confirm)
> if confirm == 'y' or 'Y' or 'Yes' or 'YES' or 'yes':
> return 1
> return 0

[snip]

'Y' evaluates to true.

Maybe try something like:

if confirm in ['y', 'Y', 'Yes', 'YES', 'yes']:
etc.

Duncan





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 18:24:51 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:24:51 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <bjat11$70s$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vli3aft38mpa46@news.supernews.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in message
news:bjat11$70s$07$1 at news.t-online.com...
>
> "Grzegorz Staniak" <gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl>
>
> > I'm a newbie Python user, a systems administrator - I've been trying
> > to switch from Perl to Python for administrative tasks - and one thing
> > I cannot understand so far is why I need the special 'self' (or anything
> > esle) argument in class method definitions.
>
> You probably do not mean "class methods"; this a technical term in OOP.
>
> The Python class basics are *very* similar to the implementation of Perl
> classes!!
> You should not have much problems....

Actually, I think he *does* mean "class methods." They are new in 2.2
after all, and I missed the qualification the first time around.

John Roth
>
> Kindly
> Michael P
>
>





From anthonypolis at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 21 14:27:50 2003
From: anthonypolis at hotmail.com (anthony polis)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:27:50 +0000
Subject: Creating a new file
Message-ID: <BAY9-F52AH1aXOlLv4q0002719e@hotmail.com>

Hello,

I'm new to Python. Is it possible to create a NEW file in Python? I read the 
tutorial on file input in the documentation but it only explains how to work 
with existing files. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Anthony

_________________________________________________________________
Instant message during games with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE!  
http://msnmessenger-download.com





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep  8 17:13:58 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:13:58 -0400
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
	        <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
	        <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
	        <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com> <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     Dave> I don't know of any problem with tinyurls - *any* server can
>     Dave> provide a "bad" redirect; as with any URL whether or not you
>     Dave> follow it depends on the context and on how much you trust the
>     Dave> sender.
> 
> The only other reasons I could think of to object to tiny urls are:
> 
> * Perhaps the tinyurl folks are not trustworthy (are they keeping track of
>   your browsing habits and selling that info?).  That seems unlikely, since
>   they don't appear to be storing cookies in my browser.
> 
> * The tinyurl website can become a bottleneck, preventing people from
>   getting where they want to go.  The tinyurl.com website seems to be fairly
>   unreachable for me at the moment, though this is the first time I've seen
>   this, and it appears to be a problem more with Northwestern's connection
>   to the net than tinyurl.com's.
> 
> * There's no guarantee tiny urls will remain unique or even available for
>   long periods of time.  Their current practice of using four lower-case
>   letters suggests they have space for about 450,000 unique URLs before
>   extending to a fifth letter.

* You can't tell ahead of time what site you are going to be redirected to.
  As a result, you lose complete freedom to choose whether or not you should
  follow the link.  (Note for the imprecise: I didn't say you completely lose
  freedom, I said you lose complete freedom.)

-Peter



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 12:24:07 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:24:07 -0500
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
In-Reply-To: <ef08387c.0309170801.4b299cf7@posting.google.com>
References: <ef08387c.0309170801.4b299cf7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16232.35495.501167.780179@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    fortepianissimo> I know I can do things like
    fortepianissimo> s=Set(range(1,11))
    fortepianissimo> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))

    fortepianissimo> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a list
    fortepianissimo> which then must be converted back to a set. Any tips?

The only thing which comes to mind is:

    >>> s = sets.Set(range(1,11))
    >>> s
    Set([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10])
    >>> keys = list(s)
    >>> dummy = [s.discard(x) for x in keys if x%2]
    >>> s
    Set([2, 4, 6, 8, 10])

You still create a list, but don't create a second set.

Skip




From BrenBarn at aol.com  Thu Sep  4 01:25:02 2003
From: BrenBarn at aol.com (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: 4 Sep 2003 05:25:02 GMT
Subject: Importing/reloading modules
Message-ID: <Xns93EBE3797D896OKB@130.133.1.4>

    	I'm fooling around with some MUD server code, and I want to add a 
"reload" command that will let MUD wizards reload the server modules, 
so that changes to the MUD parser and such can be effected without 
having to shut down and restart the server.

    	Now, what I want to do at the top of my main module, instead of 
just "import somemodule", is something like this:

try:
    	reload(somemodule)
except NameError:
    	import somemodule

    	. . . so that it imports the module if it's just starting up, and 
reloads it otherwise.  The problem is that I want to be able to call 
this code multiple times, so I can call it from the "reload" command.  
I can't figure out how to do this appropriately.

    	If I put the try/except in a function, it doesn't import the 
module name into the global namespace, so that's no good.  I could, of 
course, import the modules normally and write a separate function that 
reloads them, but then if I decided to import another module or remove 
one, I'd have to change both pieces of code.

    	What I want is to get one piece of code that imports modules, or 
reloads them if they're already imported, and I need to be able to 
call this code like a function, from anywhere in my program.  (There 
are also "from foo import bar" statements that I need to re-execute 
along with the reloads.)  Something like:

importFunc():
    	from foo import bar # except import it into the global namespace
    	try:
    	    	reload(baz)
    	except NameError:
    	    	import baz # except import it into the global namespace

    	Someone suggested that I fiddle with __import__, but I'm not sure 
exactly what to do, or if this is the best approach.  The 
documentation seems to suggest that simply doing __import__
('somemodule', globals(), globals()) won't actually stick the module 
name into the global namespace -- is there some way to make this 
happen, though?

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Sep  5 15:19:26 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:19:26 -0700
Subject: Can't Open PY Files
In-Reply-To: <pefflv0vjagvps8bp9uq85j7hltk8ai494@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1062712281.5081.python-list@python.org> <pefflv0vjagvps8bp9uq85j7hltk8ai494@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f58e1bb@nntp0.pdx.net>

derek / nul wrote:
> ...  I have to call python file like this python myprogram.py
> Derek

Install the Win32all stuff -- you'l get file associations set up.

The "assoc" "dos box" command can be used to see file associations:

C:\> assoc .py
.py=Python.File

Once the proper associations have been made, you can run programs with:
C:\> myprogram.py


-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep  1 10:49:06 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 10:49:06 -0400
Subject: exception question
References: <lfp4lv8krqakeea3d0k0tcm86mb2mnf2v3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bivm92$c9$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <lfp4lv8krqakeea3d0k0tcm86mb2mnf2v3 at 4ax.com>,
Gon?alo Rodrigues  <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>
>For error processing I found convenient maintaining a dictionary where
>the keys are exception *classes* and the values are callables. Of
>course, for this to work, exception classes have to be hashable which
>I happily found that they were. So my question is, can I count on this
>behaviour? Or is this behaviour I should not count on? (I found
>nothing on the docs about it, thus the question).

If it's not documented, you can't count on it.  There's no intrinsic
reason exception classes would be made unhashable, *but* classes become
unhashable as soon as they implement __cmp__() or __eq__() *and* they
fail to implement __hash__().  So if someone ever asks to compare
exceptions, it could be an issue.

You may want to bring this issue up on python-dev.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 19:16:01 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 00:16:01 +0100
Subject: Invisible function attributes
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87he3tfopa.fsf@pobox.com>

lefevrol at yahoo.com (Olivier Lefevre) writes:
[...]
> So it would appear that function attributes are not really
> there until the first call to the function. If that is the

Not function attributes in general, just those that are first assigned
to in the function body.  No special rule here, though, because...


> intended behaviour, it is really weird. I couldn't find any
> explicit discussion of this topic in the LRM.
> 
> Thanks if anyone can shed some light on this,

...what I'm guessing you haven't figured out yet is that everything
works like this in Python.  For example, what might be called a 'class
declaration' in other languages isn't really a declaration in Python,
it's code that gets executed at runtime.  Same is true of functions:

if WANT_SPAM:
    def sayhello(): print "spam"
else:
    def sayhello(): print "eggs"

sayhello()


And your foo.a = 1 isn't a declaration (Python doesn't have them,
really), it's just an attribute assignment.


John



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 18:05:43 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 00:05:43 +0200
Subject: I need a little help with Tkinter Entry widget
References: <221e7b06.0309051235.2d5b4868@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjb1cp$cer$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Phil Schmidt" <phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:221e7b06.0309051235.2d5b4868 at posting.google.com...
> I'm trying to make a custom entry widget, as in the code that follows.
> There are two problems I'm trying to fix:
>
> 1) I would like the widget to behave as myEntry.Escape() does now,
> except that it happens on loss of focus, not when pressing Esc.
>
Then why don't you bind <FocusOut> and <FocusIn> ?

Kindly
Michael P





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Sep  4 13:36:13 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 17:36:13 GMT
Subject: Circle Hell
References: <talon34-2DF9F8.07551804092003@news.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <bj7t6d$djf$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 07:55:18 -0700, Talon <talon34 at hotmail.com> (by way of Talon <talon34 at hotmail.com>) wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I am new to Tk, so please bear with me.  I need someone better at math 
>than me to help me figure this out.  I am drawing multiple arcs on the 
>same circle.  All arcs start at 90 and have varying negative extents 
>(different colors, goes all the way around. Represents a microbial 
>genome). So now that my arcs are drawn, I would would like to draw a 
>line, 25 pixels long that starts on the circle at the endpoint of each 
>of the arcs, and looks like an extension of the radius extending above 
>the circle. Then I would like to print text at the end of this line.  So 
>my question is how do I dynamically calculate the line coordinates?  
>Circle size is fixed, number of arcs and their extents are variable.
>
>Code for drawing arc;
>$x1,$y1 = 25
>$x2,$y2 = 775
>$xcenter = $x2/2 + $x1;
>$ycenter = $y2/2 + $y1;
>
>$canvas->createArc($x1,$y1,$x2,$y2, 
>                   -width=>10,
>                   -outline=>$colors[$color],
>                   -style=>'arc',
>                   -start=>90,
>                   -extent=>-$actual_angle,
>                   -tags=>$myorfs{$key}[1]);
>
>What I have so far to draw lines:
>
>$xstart = (cos($current_arclength)*$radius+$xcenter) /10;
>$ystart = (sin($current_arclength)*$radius+$ycenter) /10;
These look ok except dividing by 10, assuming the units for the angle are ok (degrees vs radians?)
Dividing by 10 seems weird here, so try leaving it out.

>$canvas->createLine($xstart+$xcenter,
>                    $ystart+$ycenter,
>From above, xstart already has xcenter in it, so don't add it again. Same for ycenter.
>                    $xstart+($xstart*0.01)+$xcenter,
>                    $ystart+($ystart*0.01)+$ycenter);
If you want to draw a 25-pixel line, where is the "25"? You just need to resolve the 25
into x and y components and add them to your respective starting points, I would think.
So UIAM the above becomes (giving a name to the 25-pixel length (assuming dimensions are in pixels)

 $tick_length = 25.0;

 $xstart = cos($current_arclength)*$radius+$xcenter;
 $ystart = sin($current_arclength)*$radius+$ycenter;

 $canvas->createLine($xstart,
                     $ystart,
                     $xstart+ cos($current_arclength)*$tick_length,
                     $ystart+ sin($current_arclength)*$tick_length);

>
>This draws an oval of lines, inside the orginal circle, with the line 
>length having sin periodicity around the circle.  Can anyone improve my 
>math so that I can get the lines placed properly with the proper length?
>
>Please email me directly as well as respond to the list. Thanks so much 
>in advance.
>
>--Math Challenged Mark
>
>Mark.Evans.B at bayer.com

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy  Fri Sep 19 09:12:00 2003
From: jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy (JZ)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:12:00 +0200
Subject: Webware and RAM!
Message-ID: <d30mmv0fh2ohgbnl15t6muf7n2rdlvtgcl@4ax.com>

How much memory WebKit should normally take??? As I can see, every
WebKit daemon takes over 40MB (sic!) of RAM. WebKit lauches 10 daemons
during startup, so I need over 400MB for WebKit alone! Is it
normal or I have something wrong configured?

--
JZ ICQ:6712522




From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Fri Sep  5 02:13:38 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:43:38 +0530
Subject: in Ram database?
References: <mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ouu17rbw4t.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "John" == John D <lists at webcrunchers.com> writes:

> I kinda like the idea of being able to define smaller tables as
> "in-memory" types,  and the really large massive ones in other forms
> managed by mySQL, PostGres, or bsddb3 databases.

Use PySQLite (http://pysqlite.sf.net). Make sure that you have at least
version 2.8.1 of SQLite and give the database name as :memory: (this is not
obvious from the documentation). Since SQLite can handle databases upto 2
terabytes, you use it to store "really massive ones" on disk too :-).

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R 



From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Wed Sep  3 09:32:42 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 06:32:42 -0700
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com>

Hi,all

I use wxPython make a bittorrent client. I find wxPython very slow and
use many many memory.
When app start, it need 19MB memory. I only use common GUI components.
Python is a really good
programming language. But how to do a small,smart, efficency GUI in
win32,it's a big question.

I need make GUI,core code is bittorrent code. I can't change it.it's
really good code.

I read book 'Python Programming on Win32' ,I get following idea. I
test it.

1. Use wxpython ,it's successful,but very slow .

2. use python for delphi. I test it, but it need embed python code to
delphi. So need
change original code.Actually I don't know how to change .it's big
project.

3. User win32com, make a com server by delphi. com server have form.
make python code
as com client.  I make a com server and invoke the server by
pythonwin. but the form
can't show. :(   anyone do it ,could you share you code to world.

4. use pythonwin. mfc or win32gui framework. I check the demo code,
it's very complex.
you know I hate MFC. it's a joke. i like VCL so much. 

5. I have a another idea. use wxWindows (c lan) build a GUI. embed
python code .
or embed wxWindows code to python by SWIG. I have't test it. if you
have do it.
Please tell us.

Thanks.

Ulysses
ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn



From merman at snafu.de  Thu Sep  4 09:54:57 2003
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:54:57 +0200
Subject: question: How can I put empty directories into a zip-archive?
Message-ID: <3F574431.6020902@snafu.de>

Hi there,

in my directory are some 'normal' files like *.py sources and some empty 
directories too. How can I put all togehter into a zip-archive?

There is no problem to zip the *.py files but if I try to add empty directories 
  an exception is trown.

Thanks.

o-o

Thomas




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep  9 14:43:47 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 09 Sep 2003 19:43:47 +0100
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
References: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <pan.2003.09.09.13.16.06.415215@thomas-guettler.de> <slrnblrp9e.i81.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <871xupg5uk.fsf@pobox.com>

axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com (Axel Straschil) writes:

> Hello!
> 
> > BTW, I used to waste a lot of time with xslt. 
> 
> Jep, hard work for eight lines:
> from Ft.Lib.Uri import OsPathToUri
> from Ft.Xml import InputSource
> from Ft.Xml.Xslt.Processor import Processor
> STY = InputSource.DefaultFactory.fromUri('test.xsl')
> SRC = InputSource.DefaultFactory.fromUri('test.xml')
> proc = Processor()
> proc.appendStylesheet(STY)
> print proc.run(SRC)

That looks like Python code to me, Axel, not XSLT <wink>.  It's
writing the XSLT that's the pain, not interpreting it (though that can
certainly be 'arbitrarily difficult' -- in the words of K&R, IIRC --
if the XSLT implementors have hidden the command-line utility well
enough).

The utility of XSLT is that everybody can agree to hate it equally
<0.3 wink>.  If the world were saner, we'd all agree to *like* Python
equally, but there you go.

(actually, I don't hate it in itself -- just the way people view it as
being particularly useful, which seems unjustified)


> > I think you are most of the time quicker with SAX for
> > parsing XML and "print" to create XML.
> 
> It's for an CMS-System. I think XML and XLST is a good thing
> if programmer and webdesigner have to work together, and you
> realy want to seperate the content from the design
> (Even when I think god had a bad day when he craeted 
> webdesigner ;-).

XML is good because it's an widely-understood, easy-to-read,
not-to-complicated, *non*-loathesome standard that gets the job done.
XSLT... well, it's a standard.  And it has an 'X' in the name, of
course, which is the killer feature <wink>.


John



From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 18:33:42 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:33:42 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3F57A9F5.F579219D at engcorp.com...
> "John J. Lee" wrote:
> >
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> > [...]
> > > This sounds like a good opportunity to read "Zen and the Art of
Motorcycle
> > > Maintenance" (by Robert Pirsig) if you have not already.  It's
certainly
> > > about IT, and ties into "The Zen of Python" (by Tim Peters) nicely,
too. :-)
> >
> > Don't read it, it's a pile of junk.  :-)  IMNSHO.
>
> Are you trying to start the book-burning thread again? :-)

To my unbiased ;-) opinion it *is* overestimated. But it a good supplement
to C.P Snow's "Two Culture Theory". It might be disapponting for somone who
seeks simple help for software development....

Kindly
Michael P





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 10 08:38:16 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 13:38:16 +0100
Subject: java pythpn extension (JPE) download fails
References: <bjmotr$kkrr6$2@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87smn4byyv.fsf@pobox.com>

"marcus b." <sancho-fx1 at gmx.de> writes:

> I'm trying to get a current version of the java python extensin (JPE), but
> the the link on http://jpe.sourceforge.net/
> (http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=60438) is not
> working. I searched the web to get some other source of download, but
> everyone seems referring to this site. Has anyone sucessfully downloaded
> this JPE recently? Any hint how to get JPE would be very nice..!

CVS?  Somebody here mentioned that it's not seen much activity
recently, though.


John



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 16:30:24 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:30:24 -0400
Subject: Why python???
References: <3335321.1062775466@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <vlhsjh5j3pqaca@news.supernews.com>

"yeung_too" <yeung_too at yahoo.com.hk> wrote in message
news:3335321.1062775466 at dbforums.com...
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
>     My college used C for beginner course and use Java to demostrate OO
>     concept. Anyway, I tried python and found that it is a very good
>     language. I think many people spend time on Java and university uses
>     Java because Sun Microsystem spends much money to promote and
>     develop the Java language. I just feel that our world spends most
>     time on promote things, rich company can promote computer language
>     very well. Open source without huge money support, people may
>     dislike their product. What do you think, But i really like open
>     source ideas, it improves our world, not just $$$.

There are a number of universities using Python as a first language.
It's got a lot to recommend it in that position, since it has a minimum
of unnecessary baggage and still has good OO capability and an
extensive enough library to get something done.

Then you can move to the other languages of real commercial interest
in subsequent courses.

It's also, of course, very useful in situations such as secondary schools
where you may want to teach programming, but the students aren't
thinking of becoming professional programmers.

John Roth
>
>
>
> an university student
>
> (reflect my feeling)
>
>
> --
> Daniel Chan
>
>
> Posted via http://dbforums.com





From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Sep 18 03:36:33 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:36:33 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
In-Reply-To: <y8wmfu6t.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org> <y8wmfu6t.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309181034030.24128@sampo.csc.fi>

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Thomas Heller wrote:

> Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
> > is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
> > straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with sockets
> > and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.
>
> For windows?
>
> <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.windows/969>

I want to get this done on both Windows (2000/XP) and (Redhat) Linux (7.x
or higher).

Isn't there a way to wrap a call to urllib.urlopen in some kind of timer,
so that the call fails if there is no answer in N seconds? (I.e. if
urllib.urlopen cannot open a specific web page in N seconds, then I
assume that the reason is that the computer is not online.) That would be
good enough for me. Any suggestions?

/Mickel




From llothar at web.de  Wed Sep 17 09:28:46 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 06:28:46 -0700
Subject: wanted($):  mac and linux python gui coders for porting
References: <EHr9b.36540$n94.18214@fed1read04> <8dsfmvo15uftg7qvc0oivmsg6eeeqelvtm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309170528.9c81592@posting.google.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in message news:<8dsfmvo15uftg7qvc0oivmsg6eeeqelvtm at 4ax.com>...

> The problem is that 10% of your shareware revenue stream is likely to come
> to approximately $1 per month.
> 
> Further, the shareware revenue stream from your Linux port is almost
> certainly going to be $0 per month.  Linux users do not pay for software
> tools like this.  There's just too much outstanding stuff available for
> free.

With his marketing skills it will be $0 even for the windows version.
And with a connection that gives me 2Kb/sec on a fast DSL line even
the download will be 0.



From martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de  Tue Sep  9 05:06:01 2003
From: martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de (Martin Schneider)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:06:01 +0200
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
Message-ID: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

I want to extend Python with a C module, so to get the technology clear, I
wrote a Bubblesort over 10.000 elements in Python and in a C extension for
Python and got it running (YES! :-))

But...

The Python Bubblesort runs 103 seconds, the C extension Bubblesort runs 28
seconds, this is about 1:4, which is far worse than I expected (assumed
about 100:1 or alike).

The interface overhead is neglectable (1/10 second).

Is this normal?

I am using Borland's free compiler BCC on Win32 and Python 1.5.2 (because
the customer uses other modules which do not run under newer versions).

Thank you for your ideas!

Martin





From timr at probo.com  Mon Sep 22 01:18:00 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:18:00 -0700
Subject: pop3 email header classifier?
References: <GmZAOKA6Uya$Ew2E@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <r81tmvo2rph8109ohf357mq2fajkliqhoh@4ax.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Hi, I'm getting vast numbers of fake upgrade emails containing some kind
>of virus. My rather old client can be made to reject these based on some
>patterns in the subject line. They're nearly all based on the word
>'New', 'Latest', 'Microsoft', 'Patch', 'Pack', ... etc etc.
>
>Is there a python tool that can be made to delete these from my POP3
>mail box rather than let my client reject? Quite a few seem to have
>semi-valid return addresses so I get postmaster rejects from
>xxx at microsoft.com etc.

Is your e-mail client actually set up to send a RESPONSE when you receive a
virus attachment?  If so, can you please STOP IT AT ONCE?

ALL viruses released in the last 3 years choose random names for both the
sender AND recipient.  It is not possible to automatically extract the
infected individual's e-mail address from a virus message.  You can find
the address of their e-mail server, but that's all.

By sending a polite "you sent me a virus" message, you are doing NOTHING to
stop the viruses, you are ANNOYING an innocent person, and you are DOUBLING
the e-mail volume damage caused by the virus script kiddies.

I got close to 10,000 helpful and completely bogus "you sent my a virus"
messages during the "SoBig" fiasco.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From domma at procoders.net  Thu Sep 25 08:52:36 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:52:36 +0200
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com> <bkumfg$ifj$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkuoeb$kbt$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:bkumfg$ifj$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
> You have to know the encoding of the original file.

Why? It's of type 'str' and I would expect that I could write it to DB and
get the same 'str' back. That's all I want. Why is it required do know the
encoding?

Achim





From bogus at invalid.tld  Thu Sep  4 00:00:45 2003
From: bogus at invalid.tld (Jules Dubois)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:00:45 -0600
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>

On 03 Sep 2003 13:58:00 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:

> The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
> learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).

That's the only Python book you think worth having?  Or buying?

My "Software Engineering" class votes again tomorrow on the language we use
for our group project.  Tuesday's vote was Java (8 votes), Python (5), C++
(3), and Smalltalk (1); Thursday's vote will be between Java and Python.  I
get the opportunity to learn one or the other in a week.



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep  8 13:57:41 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:57:41 -0400
Subject: What is marketing?
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
 <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062983352.15417.python-list@python.org>
 <qnY6b.42704$R32.1360114@news2.tin.it> <eIMX/kKkXswV092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <VMMX/kKkXEMK092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote previously:
|Many techies think of "marketing" as a dirty word because it's so often
|misused as an inappropriate synonym for "selling".

  marketing
  1. The act or process of buying and selling in a market.
  2. The commercial functions involved in transferring goods from
     producer to consumer.
  --------------------
  The American Heritage (r) Concise Dictionary of the English Language,
  Third Edition.   Copyright (c) 1992 Houghton Mifflin Company.

In other words, 'marketing' is a synonym for 'selling' (commercially).

The neutral word that Alex is looking for is 'promotion', which has a
subtle but important difference from the dirty word.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 23:59:32 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:59:32 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <63gvmvcf6iakbs8pgll7u8ogblkbqld6fp@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:41:04 -0400, "Sean Ross"
<sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

>"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in
>message news:5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn at 4ax.com...
>>
>> Some more looping thoughts - this time on integer for loops...
>
>Hi.
>How about the following:
>
>for i in 0...10:
>    # suite
>
>where 0...10 works something like xrange(10). So you get i=0 then 1 then 2
>... then 9. To get 0 thru 10, inclusive, you'd need to say 0...11 (Ruby has
>0..10, but I doubt that'd pass muster here).

Personally, I think the conventional '..' has more chance than your
'...'. Basically, the idea of '..' specifying an inclusive range is a
familiar idea to most people, even those who haven't used languages
like Ruby or Ada that use that notation. Having a syntax that looks
similar but means something just slightly different is likely to be
seriously error prone and confusing.

I'm certainly not against '..' in the conventional sense (I like
half-open ranges, but I'm not a fundamentalist and inclusive ranges
have worked perfectly well in Basic and Ada (and IIRC Pascal, Modula 2
and others).

Actually, the main reason I didn't mention it myself is that I figure
there must be some reason for its being rejected in the past. I can't
seriously believe that it has never been proposed.


>Leaving the ellipsis aside, you could add methods to int/long (also ala
>Ruby),
>
>for i in 0.upto(10):
>    # suite
>
># to count down
>for i in 10.downto(0):
>    # suite

I'm not sure about this - I'm bouncing between "that's neat!" and
"yuck!", but the "yuck!" part may just mean I need to get used to it.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep  2 18:34:56 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:34:56 -0500
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
In-Reply-To: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD454A@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD454A@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <20030902223456.GB11303@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 07:35:31AM +1000, Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> > From: Terry Reedy [mailto:tjreedy at udel.edu]
> > 
> > "Stefan Fleiter" <stefan.fleiter at web.de> wrote in message
> > news:bj2nv5$hna$1 at news.web.de...
> > 
> > > under Python 2.2.2:
> > >
> > >  >>> s = slice(None,5,None)
> > >  >>> hash(s)
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > > TypeError: unhashable type
> > >  >>> s.__hash__()
> > > 136775584
> > >
> > > Can anybody explain this?
> > 
> > It looks like a bug.  Extended slices were added for use by Numerical
> > Python.  It may never have tried to hash them or only done so only
> > through the C equivavlent of s.__hash__.  Extended slicing of
> > sequences was, I believe, only added in 2.3.
> 
> Looks like a bug to me too. Stefan, please raise a bug report on Sourceforge (or it will get lost). Preferably add a patch and test suite ;)
> 
> Tim Delaney

No, it's apparently deliberate that slices don't hash (so that
{}[1:2] raises an error).  I think that slice(None).__hash__ is from
object.__hash__, but this is rightfully(?) ignored by PyObject_Hash()
which looks at tp_hash (NULL for slice objects) and tp_compare (non-NULL
for slice objects) with the result that the object is treated as
unhashable.

Jeff




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep  1 14:12:24 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:12:24 -0600
Subject: Overloading objects
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382E4F@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030901120306.02e89c90@66.28.54.253>

At 10:55 AM 9/1/2003 -0300, Batista, Facundo wrote:

>In others languages I can do (using sintaxis of Python):
>
>def myMethod (self, name):
>         self.name = name
>
>def myMethod (self, name, age):
>         self.name = name
>         self.age = age
>
>If I'm not wrong, this is "Method Overloading".
>
>I thought using defaults:
>
>def myMethod (self, name, age=None):
>         self.name = name
>         if age not None:
>                 self.age = age
>
>but I'm concerned about the scalability of this.
>
>What's the most pythonic way to do this? Using something like *args or 
>**args?

Depends. In your example, overloading is resolved by the # of args passed, 
and their meaning depends on their position. If that is all you want, 
specify defaults as in age=None. Overloading can also depend on the type of 
data passed to the method, in which case you'll need either an if .. elif 
structure or a dictionary keyed by types to resolve things.

You can also define different methods with the same name by subclassing and 
using instances of the various subclasses in your various situations. This 
approach obviates the need for overloading and can make the intent of the 
program a lot clearer to the reader.

IMHO the latter is a better way to deal with complex situations. I often 
find myself coding default values and if elif structures, and a bell rings 
reminding me to sublcass. The result is almost always better.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep 26 14:10:08 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:10:08 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <bl1iq3$ss$01$1@news.t-online.com> <MI_cb.75294$PD3.4794043@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <vn90903l3oe15b@news.supernews.com>

"Nicolas Fleury" <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote in message
news:MI_cb.75294$PD3.4794043 at nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Peter Otten wrote:
>
> > Nicolas Fleury wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For
> >>example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered
> >>incomplete?
> >
> >
> > Did you know about (...)?
>
> Actually, no.  But it's still not what I'm looking for.  It's just that
> I'm used to languages where I can put my code on multiple easily to make
> lines shorter.  As John pointed, it's possible to add () to print.  I
> just discovered that it can be done with return also.  I wonder how to
> remove the need for \ in that example:
>
>      parser.StartElementHandler = \
>          lambda name, attrs: \
>              GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs)

How about:

    parser.StartElementHandler = (lambda name, attrs:
        GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs))

John Roth
>
> Regards,
>
> Nicolas
>





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep 27 01:11:30 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:11:30 -0400
Subject: Now that rexec is gone...
References: <XA8db.597231$o%2.276974@sccrnsc02>
Message-ID: <QXWdndTwwa-egeiiU-KYvg@comcast.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com> wrote in message
news:XA8db.597231$o%2.276974 at sccrnsc02...
> Now that rexec is gone, is there any code or information available
on
> executing Python in a restricted environment?  And before I roll my
own
> solution, exactly where the security holes in rexec anyway?

Suggest you google last year of c.l.py for 'rexec'.  Also check out
py-dev summaries of last fall for discussion of why removed.

TJR





From forodejazz at yahoo.es  Thu Sep 25 11:21:29 2003
From: forodejazz at yahoo.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Asorey_=C1lvarez?=)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 08:21:29 -0700
Subject: send email
References: <mailman.1064455474.2847.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1759581e.0309250721.79ecb06@posting.google.com>

"Alberto Vera" <avera at coes.org.pe> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064455474.2847.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello:
> 
> Could you tell me How I can send an email using WIN2000? What do I need?

Using Python, I supose...

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-smtplib.html


-- 
David.



From groups-support at google.com  Sun Sep 28 06:34:48 2003
From: groups-support at google.com (groups-support at google.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:34:48 -0000
Subject: [#4071110] baby!your friend send this file to you !
In-Reply-To: <200309281034.h8SAY0Tx003043@smtp8.google.com>
Message-ID: <#14.3e1ec6.d01b8d25.3f76b948.4a7f@google.trakken.com>

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From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Sep 15 16:55:32 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:55:32 -0700
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <014901c37bcb$b4476060$21795418@dell1700>

> The point I was trying to make (not in this message but in general) is
> that it would be simple (trivial but tedious) to create a version of
> Python that is thread-safe, and the only reason it is not done is
> because it would break old code. 

Actually, it would be reasonably difficult. If you don't agree why not
spend a weekend implementing it and see how robust your implementation
is? Also, adding object-level locking would involve a huge performance
penalty. 

> All other modern languages are free-threaded. 

Ruby is not free-threaded in the sense that you mean.

> "Therefore, the rule exists that only the thread that has acquired the
> global interpreter lock may operate on Python objects or call Python/C
> API functions. In order to support multi-threaded Python programs, the
> interpreter regularly releases and reacquires the lock -- by default,
> every 100 bytecode instructions (this can be changed with
> sys.setcheckinterval()). The lock is also released and reacquired
around
> potentially blocking I/O operations like reading or writing a file, so
> that other threads can run while the thread that requests the I/O is
> waiting for the I/O operation to complete."
> 
> Yuck. 

You can release the lock at other times too. If you were doing a
long-running calculation that doesn't require use of the Python API, for
example, it would be appropriate to release the GIL.

> Only one global variable left (in fact there is Py_None as well). Why
> not get rid of it, then??

I think that you must be missing something... There is nothing special
about Py_None. The number 5 is globally shared just like Py_None is.
This is a performance optimization used to prevent lots of small numbers
from being allocated and destroyed all the time.

Cheers,
Brian





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Sep  8 18:07:30 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:07:30 -0700
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
		        <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
		        <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
		        <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com> <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org> <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F5CFDA2.C947C3A2@alcyone.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> * You can't tell ahead of time what site you are going to be
>   redirected to.
>   As a result, you lose complete freedom to choose whether or not you
>   should
>   follow the link.  (Note for the imprecise: I didn't say you
>   completely lose
>   freedom, I said you lose complete freedom.)

But you can't tell that any URL, even a long one that looks meaningful,
won't redirect you someplace you don't want to go.  Even if it's what
you expected, there could be something on the page which potentially
does something malicious, like a Java bomb.

It all comes down to trusting the person who's posting the URL, and that
doesn't change whether it's a tinyurl.com URL being posted or something
else.  (Not that I'm a particular fan of using tinyurl.com, but this
seems like a strange thing to complain about.)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The people are to be taken in very small doses.
\__/  Ralph Waldo Emerson



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 05:25:08 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:25:08 +0100
Subject: More Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <taAX/kKkXYUC092yn@gnosis.cx>                       
Message-ID: <005401c375eb$1ea0b9c0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

David said:
>|>I guess you chose not to read the suggestions that I made, or that
many
>|>other people made.
>|I have made changes, font sizes, contrast, line spacing, etc. So I
wonder 
>|how you managed to miss this
>Actually, I read them all... well, not in the last couple hours.  But 
>everything up to that on c.l.py, and even on the pythondotorg-redesign 
>mailing list.
Just in case people didn't realise, there is a py-design-forum at :-

http://pythonology.org/mailman/listinfo/py-design-forum
And a python marketing forum at
http://pythonology.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-python

>|The commercial customer is the company that is choosing to use Python
on
>|a core project, the company that wasts to bas there product on Python,
>|the company that is evaluating a recommendation to deploy Python.
>Exactly! Whose "customer" is this?! It seems as if working in "the web
>design industry" has diminished your ability to write without
nonsensical
>jargon.  A company that may or may not use Python is not a "customer"
of
>PythonLabs, or PSF, or whomever.  It is exactly this gross
>misunderstanding, I think, that leads you to create such an
inappropriate
>page (well, I don't like many of those corporate/marketing pages that
big
>companies that actually have customers create either)... that combined 
>with a disregard for usability.
Although I use the word customer loosely, I would have thought you would
understand my context. Although in your eyes a commercial entity
choosing to use Python against, say, C# is not a customer, in the
companies eyes they certainly are. They are looking to invest, if they
are not actually investing money in Python, they are investing their
reputation and liveliehood and if we expect them to use Python we should
respect that this is their outlook. If we want to reject this sort of
opportunity then fine but the outomce of the marketing python
discussions didn't agree.

If you have usability issues with the site design please provide them.
The issues of font size and contrast have been addressed.

David Mertz said:
>Y'know... I would have thought the prior note would give you a little
clue
>about why it's not such a good idea to write notes that do nothing but
try
>to antagonize me.  I'm not vindictive, but I -am- influential.
I am certainly not trying to be antagonising, and I didn't think I was,
I was merely reacting to some unfounded criticisms of the design I'd put
forward. If I seem to have been a little over the top then I apologise
profusely but as you can imagine the reaction to 8 weeks of hard work
that had been put in by quite a few people. Comments like the one you
have made just make me realise how much time we've all wasted. If you
are this influential then I shall stop working on the redesign and let
someone you like carry on.

Tim







From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 30 10:29:56 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:29:56 +0300
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za> <mailman.1064922760.19698.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5o4jnvs04brbir8850q3vc1f8phcth0kjo@4ax.com>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:31 +0200, rumours say that Gerrit Holl
<gerrit at nl.linux.org> might have written:

>for c in chr:
> str = str.replace(c, r"\c")

Perhaps you meant:

for c in chr:
   str = str.replace(c, r"\%s" % c)

otherwise all characters in chr would change into a literal
'backslash-c'...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix



From http  Tue Sep 30 19:51:15 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 16:51:15 -0700
Subject: getting values from an "exec" statement
References: <ad32251c.0309301513.1b11a8ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xr81xx2bw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Python isn't really set up for what you're doing.  The exec'd code can
too easily mess around with the calling code, if it's malicious.
You're best off just running the student's program in a separate
process and capturing the output.



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 23 18:17:54 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:17:54 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com> <bkpvml$m67$06$1@news.t-online.com> <m3brtbp4h2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bkqgsm$ije$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> 
>> Looking into stringobject.c (judging from a first impression,
>> unicodeobject.c has essentially the same algorithm, but with a few
>> indirections):
> 
> You are mistaken. The implementation in unicodeobject.c is
> fundamentally different. The byte string implementation uses the C
> library, the Unicode implementation uses the Unicode character
> database. So the former cannot be changed, whereas the latter could,
> in theory, be extended to use additional data.

I followed the code to fixupper() which operates on a preallocated unicode
object and thus cannot cope with a string that expands while being
transformed. I didn't actually resolve the macros.

While we are at it, would it be viable to "abuse" the encoding/decoding
mechanism to do case conversions?

Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Sep 21 07:17:37 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:17:37 +0200
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

> I'm using Python 2.3s timeout sockets and have code like this to read a
> page from web:
> 
> request = ...
> self.page = urllib2.urlopen(request)
> 
> and later:
> 
> try:
>     self.data = self.page.read()
> except socket.error,e: ...
> except socket.timeout: ...
> except timeout: ...
> 
> but none of these excepts catches the the timeout while reading the data.
> I still get the following exception, which I cannot handle:

socket.timeout is a subclass of socket.error, so the timeout exception
should be caught by the first except clause.

However, I could reproduce your uncaught exception with the following
minimalist code:

from urllib2 import urlopen
import socket

slowurl = "http://127.0.0.1/timeout?delay=100"
socket.setdefaulttimeout(1)
data = urlopen(slowurl)

try:
    data.read()
except: # should catch ANY exception
    print "Timeout raised and caught" # this never shows

So it seems there is *no* way to catch the error.
I think you should file a bug report.

Peter




From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Sep 26 19:13:49 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:13:49 -0700
Subject: safely closing a socket?
References: <rowen-BB1C2E.13503026092003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <donn-3B1A98.16134926092003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <rowen-BB1C2E.13503026092003 at nntp2.u.washington.edu>,
 "Russell E. Owen" <rowen at cesmail.net> wrote:

> I've been doing some socket programming with threads and am confused how 
> to safely shut down a connection.
> 
> First of all, using the file-like object returned by urllib to do ftp 
> file download (Python 2.3, MacOS X), I can hang the process by:
> - using one thread to read the file-like object
> - trying to close the connection in the main thread (while still 
> downloading)
> it's not clear to me what's hung, but it just sits there. No major CPU 
> cycles being eaten. Some kind of deadlock, perhaps???
> 
> I've worked around the problem by setting a flag and having the read 
> thread quit. But this can take quite awhile. Is there some fast safe way 
> to terminate such a download?
> 
> Also, is this more generally an issue with sockets? Is it dangerous to 
> close a socket while another thread may be reading or writing it?

Greetings, Russell!  It depends on the platform.

Casual experiment with two variations -

  1.  child thread in socketobject.recv(), parent
      calls socketobject.close()

    MacOS X:          recv returns ''
    FreeBSD 5.1:      recv raises exception (errno EBADF)
    Redhat Linux 7.2: recv continues

  2.  child thread in socketobject.makefile('r').read(),
      parent calls socketobject.close()

    MacOS X:          read continues
    FreeBSD 5.1:      read continues
    Redhat Linux 7.2: read continues, program doesn't exit

So there seems to be an incentive to avoid the file object
thing, but you couldn't depend on that working on every
possible platform (e.g., Linux.) 

One sort of deluxe option would be an inter-thread communications
channel, probably a pipe, that the child thread reads along
with its socket, via select().  It won't interrupt a recv
actually in progress, transferring data, but ordinarily the
intent is to abort it when it would be waiting for more data.
This doesn't work well with fileobject I/O, has to be system
level posix.read or socketobject.recv.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  3 11:13:11 2003
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 08:13:11 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com>

As you add more items, say text lines, in Text widget, it gets too
slow and almost impractical to use on. Take idle for example. If the
text gets bigger(e.g. print
urllib.urlopen('http://www.amazon.com').read() ), it becomes too
sluggish to use as an "interactive" shell.

I have tried wxPython and it seems to have the same problem (from my
experience using PyCrust).

Is there any way to speed up Text widget, or should I look for another
GUI library?

Jane



From tim at lesher.ws  Wed Sep  3 05:36:15 2003
From: tim at lesher.ws (Tim Lesher)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 02:36:15 -0700
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com> <bj30il$eoev7$2@ID-125932.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1062542045.14859.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b6562547.0309030136.7f08b4a1@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062542045.14859.python-list at python.org>...
> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:03:17PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote:
> > "What's wrong" is that 'proprietary nature.'  If I write code in Perl,
> > Python, or Ruby, I can be certain that I won't get bitten because of
> > someone pulling the rug out from under them.  
> > 
> > I can't be certain in the same way of the perpetual availability of
> > REBOL.
> 
> Of course, it's also possible that it might become impossible to use
> "non-proprietary" software.

Yes, but any of the apocalyptic situations you mention could happen
equally well with proprietary software, and comparing the complexity
of portion X10 to that of porting Python (or a similarly-sized,
well-factored language) is ridiculous.

The gamut of things that would make you completely lose your
investment in the language is non-zero with open source languages like
Perl or Python, but it's definitely smaller than with proprietary ones
like REBOL.

On that note, I tried REBOL a few years ago, just before trying
Python.  I found it an amazing language, but I settled on Python for
exactly this reason.  Since then, I've found the Python community to
have grown significantly, while the REBOL community has not.  I don't
think that's a coincidence.

-- 
Tim Lesher
tim at lesher.ws



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep 29 11:28:56 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:28:56 -0400
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <mailman.1064844761.11275.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Qs6dnWo56tMk0uWiU-KYvw@comcast.com>

"Rob Hunter" <rob at cs.brown.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064844761.11275.python-list at python.org...
> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
>
> One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x ==
> type(2387482734274)) and ...
>
> but this seems kludgy.  Any better way?

type(x) in (int, long, float, complex) # or,
isinstance(x, (int, long, float, complex)) # now preferred, I think

But how about x=x-0?
This also accepts a user-defined number-class instance.

This option gets to the point that 'number' is not exactly defined in
either Python or mathematics.  So checking for 'numberness' may or may
not be what you need .

Terry J. Reedy





From ask at me.com  Wed Sep 24 01:57:25 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:57:25 GMT
Subject: float problem
References: <bkrai0$50pag$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9nacb.1214$NX3.946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

"Indigo Moon Man" <indigomoon at bonbon.net> wrote in message
news:bkrai0$50pag$1 at ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de...
> for the formula J = I / (12 * 100)  where I is low (like about 8 to 15) I
> get 0.  But when I do it with a calculator it's actually .008333 for
example
> if I were 10.  Is there a way I can get python to recognize the .008333
> instead of it just giving me 0?
>
> TIA for your help!
>
> -- 
> Audio Bible Online:
> http://www.audio-bible.com/
>

Normally division with integers gives an integer result losing everything
after the decimal. Couple of things you can do about that, but basically you
have to convert your denominator or divisor to a float before you divide:

  J = I / float(12 * 100)

or

  J = float(I) / (12 * 100)

Alternativly you could use 12.0 instead of 12 (or 100.0 instead of 100 for
that matter)

  J = I / (12.0 * 100)

or

  J = I / (12 * 100.0)

And last, but not least, you can import from future to make all division
"lossless":

  from __future__ import division
  J = I / (12 * 100)


I personally prefer the first one, but they will all work fine.


greg





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep  6 12:26:43 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:26:43 -0400
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it> <bjcbha$vmp$02$1@news.t-online.com> <8Um6b.34442$R32.1077180@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <v6Cdne4p1M5Zl8eiXTWJgA@comcast.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:8Um6b.34442$R32.1077180 at news2.tin.it...

> for a really wide range of tasks.  A language we're developing at
> AB Strakt as part of the CAPS framework, for example, looks like...:
>
>    attribute salary is Currency
>        "Salario mensile"
>        restriction quantity(1)
>
>        on create code Python
>            if value[0] < minimumSalary:
>                value = [ minimumSalary ]
>            return value
>        %%

My reflexive reaction was 'ugh'.  My considered reaction is 'bravo'.
You have avoided the 'ghetto trap' that I think too many
mini-languages fall into by trying to be more or less turing-complete
with a proprietary syntax useless for any other task.  The Python
'humancode' fits pretty seamlessly into the declaration framework for
two reasons: the common use of significant indentation and the
semi-natural (versus chicken-scratch) look of Python.

> etc -- now THAT is a higher-level language than Python, and it's
> a dream to use for directly transcribing into executable code the
> results of ERD analysis for typical business applications to be
> deployed as multi-layer clients/middleware/server distributed apps;

If your declaration form requires overall noticeably fewer written
lines than the Python translation, then I probably could learn to like
it too.

...
> suited.  Note that this language uses Python as its lower-level
> embedded language; indeed the whole VVHL (very-very high-level)
> program gets compiled into Python (by a Python-coded compiler, of
> course) and executed as Python (by a Python-coded middleware, of
> course -- resting on top of a very special Python-coded OODB and
> feeding clients such as GUI ones, Web apps, and batch scripts --
> all typically coded, of course, in Python).

I am curious: Will the CAPS marketers reveal or hide the fact that the
readable procedural sublanguage is a *real* language that CAPS users
can potentially use outside the CAPS box?

Terry J. Reedy





From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep  4 09:18:42 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:18:42 GMT
Subject: Arguments of function as out
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com> <wzoey20yy4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl> <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1@news.t-online.com> <c3C5b.11574$hE5.408554@news1.tin.it> <bj7c1u$kal$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <SYG5b.19259$R32.594384@news2.tin.it>

Birgit Rahm wrote:


> Hallo Alex,
> I hope this posting is near to the netiquette.

Perfect, thanks!


>> Birgit, you do not seem to have *READ* the answer to which you are
>> replying.
> I dont understood this in the you described it.
> 
>> >> * If there is more than one result value, all of them are packed into
>> >> a
>> >>   tuple, and this tuple is returned.
> I've read this, but I thought that this tuple is returned with the
> return statement. I am new to python and I never seen such
> a constract:

The code that implements this CORBA spec (if it is Python code -- it
is quite possible to implement CORBA brokers in Python, and it has
been done) will quite likely use the return statement for this, yes,
of course.  But when you CALL the code, you don't need to worry
whether it uses a return statement or some other black magic: you
can code your call AS IF the code you called was Python code that
uses a return statement for the tuple, e.g.

def X():
    return 23, 42, 69

therefore you call it as, e.g.:

a, b, c = X()

would set a to 23, b to 42, c to 69.  (You need to know how many
items are in the tuple X returns, to use this kind of assigment
which is called "unpacking assignment", because you need to list
exactly that number of targets on the left of the = sign).


> I have had only the IDL  and the py File from the IDL,
> were stand take *args and return the return value.
> In none of my python books such a construct is described. I'm sorry.
> 
> Thanks for helping me,

No problem, and you're welcome.  I do understand that Python books
don't say much about Corba (I didn't myself in the Nutshell, and
there is just one very simple example in the Cookbook which does
not cover the cases of out and inout parameters).  But if the books
don't cover *args and/or return-value packing and unpacking, then
you might want to get better books;-)


Alex




From mal at lemburg.com  Tue Sep 23 08:25:00 2003
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:25:00 +0200
Subject: DB2 driver for windows
In-Reply-To: <3f6f6c4c$0$1115$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>
References: <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>	<slrnbmugcf.ppc.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <3f6f6c4c$0$1115$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <3F703B9C.3000701@lemburg.com>

Philip wrote:
> Dave Benjamin wrote:
> 
> 
>>In article <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894 at feed0.news.be.easynet.net>, Philip
>>wrote:
>>
>>>i'am looking for a db2 driver for windows
>>>the DB2 servers runs on as400 if that makes any difference.
>>
>>I don't know if you're looking for a native driver, but if you can work
>>with ODBC, I was able to get DB2's ODBC driver (the one that comes with
>>the DB2 client installation) to talk to the mx.ODBC module.
>>
>>http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html
>>
> 
> Currently i'am using jython for database administration (because didn't find
> an native driver)
> 
> I like the java jdbc driver because you don't need to install anything
> especialy interesting when sharing code)
> 
> But the downside is that you have the java tiresome api. the obvious reason
> way i have choicen python/jython.
> 
> Well, prefer a native one but if it's easy to install the odbc driver
> that would be fine too.

FYI, mxODBC works fine using the IBM DB2/400 driver for Linux:

http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/linux/odbc/

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Software directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 23 2003)
 >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ...         http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! ::::





From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sun Sep 28 18:26:07 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:26:07 +0200
Subject: [joke] Any tool to translate PHP to Python?
In-Reply-To: <vncdncfj0csgdf@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com> <3f75f5b8$0$20650$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <vncdncfj0csgdf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f775d15$0$20178$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Bruce Dickey wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>> Bruce Dickey wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have some PHP scripts I'm moving from my web server to the local 
>>> PC. They just do file manipulation.
>>>
>>> Anybody know of a tool for translating PHP to Python? 
>>
>>
>>
>> Er... What about a programmer ?-)
>>
>> (sorry, could not resist)
>> Bruno
>>
> 
> Heh heh. Point taken. I actually *was* assuming I would be the tool -- 
> I've been around Python long enough to have seen most of the resources 
> for desktop apps.
> 
> But Python web scripting I have not gotten into or read much about. It 
> appears to me that Python is increasing in popularity, not only on the 
> desktop, but also on the web server.
> 
> It seems to me that for folks migrating from PHP to Python, a translator 
> would be a handy tool. Especially if they have a large site to convert. 

May be, but to which of the numerous Python-based dynamic web page 
generation / web framework / web application server would you convert 
your php source ?

Bruno




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 11 07:41:53 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:41:53 -0400
Subject: 1.5 vs. 2x - build problem
References: <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org>
Message-ID: <3F605F81.7D6B32A3@engcorp.com>

Fritz Wuehler wrote:
> 
> I downloaded a tarball which doesn't compile.  The error message says I
> need python 2x but all I have is 1.5.  Can I fix the compatability
> problem and get it to work on 1.5?

That's a good question... since you haven't told us what program
the tarball actually is, the answer to the question depends entirely
on your own programming abilities... <wink>

Have you tried checking the source or a README or CHANGES file to see 
what it says about the reasons for requiring 2x?

-Peter



From amartin at traza-si.com  Tue Sep 16 07:22:35 2003
From: amartin at traza-si.com (Aurelio Martin Massoni)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:22:35 +0200
Subject: object.attribute vs. object.getAttribute()
References: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bk6rmn$pop3j$1@ID-50400.news.uni-berlin.de>

Read this nice article "Why getter and setter methods are evil: Make
your code more maintainable by avoiding accessors"

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-09-2003/jw-0905-toolbox.html



"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> escribi? en el mensaje
news:roy-81B3E5.20291015092003 at reader2.panix.com...
> For the past 6-8 months, I've spent most of my time writing C++ and a
> little bit of Java.  Both of these languages support and encourage the
> use of private data and explicit accessor functions, i.e. instead of
> writing x = foo.bar, you write x = foo.getBar().  Now that I'm back to
> writing Python, I find myself in a quandry.
>
> Historically, I've always avoided accessor functions and just reached
> directly into objects to get the value of their attributes.  Since
> Python doesn't have private data, there really isn't much advantage to
> writing accessors, but somehow I'm now finding that it just feels
wrong
> not to.  I'm not sure if this feeling is just a C++/Java-ism that will
> cure itself with time, or if perhaps it really does make sense and I
> should change the way I code.
>
> On the plus side, accessors/mutators give me:
>
> 1) Implicit documentation of which attributes I intended to be part of
> an object's externally visible state (accessors).
> 2) Hooks to do data checking or invarient assertions (mutators).
> 3) Decoupling classes by hiding the details of data structures.
> 4) Vague feeling that I'm doing a good thing by being more in line
with
> mainstream OO practices :-)
>
> On the minus side:
>
> 1) More typing (which implies more reading, which I think reduces the
> readability of the finished product).
> 2) Need to write (and test) all those silly little functions.
> 3) Performance hit due to function call overhead.
> 4) Only the appearance of private data (modulo some slots hackery).
> 5) Code is harder to change (adding functionality means going back and
> adding more slots).
> 6) Vague feeling that I'm dirtying myself by letting C++ and Java
change
> my Python coding habits :-)
>
> Comments?





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 05:49:00 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:49:00 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <g_Y5b.25276$R32.778757@news2.tin.it>

Chris wrote:
   ...
> So if I call vfunction(); and an add on has been written that redefines
> this function (and possibly calls the base c++ function) that it is
> called correctly.
> 
> I have chosen perl and python as my preferred languages because of the
> large developer base for add ons
> 
> The interpreter will only have a subset of the standard funtionality, for
> example sockets will be removed.
> 
> QUESTION
> 
> Given the above which interpreter is most likely to fit my bill with the
> smallest footprint ?

No idea about "footprint", partly because it so crucially depends on
what you will or won't remove.  But trying it out for benchmark and
measurement is trivially easy for Python -- use Boost Python, which
you get from www.boost.org, and the "subclassing C++ in Python with the
possibility of overriding virtual functions" functionality is there.

Assuming it's just as easy for Perl (sorry, no idea), trying it for both
languages and measuring footprint should fit comfortably within an afternoon
with ample time left over for tea;-).


Alex




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep  2 15:04:20 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:04:20 -0500
Subject: MySQLdb -- any way to get "rows matched"?
In-Reply-To: <bj202l.1nc.1@kserver.org>
References: <fg54lvg2uhicjvl0i9a1vq5h925frjr4gq@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1062518530.3141.python-list@python.org>
        <bj202l.1nc.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <16212.59828.291356.709883@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    mysql> UPDATE example SET AGE=30 WHERE AGE=30;
    Sheila> Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec)
    Sheila> ws matched: 2  Changed: 0  Warnings: 0


    Sheila> MySQLdb in Python:

    >>>> c = conn.cursor()
    >>>> c.execute("""UPDATE example SET AGE=30 WHERE AGE=30;""")
    Sheila> 0L
    >>>> c.messages
    Sheila> []
    >>>> c.info()
    Sheila> ''

    Sheila> Being a MySQL and MySQLdb newbie, I'm not sure if there is any
    Sheila> way to find out how many matched, via Python's MySQLdb module. I
    Sheila> thought, from the source code, that .messages or .info() for the
    Sheila> cursor attributes/methods might do it, but apparently not???

I'm not sure what the return value means when executing an update.  My guess
is that it returns the number of rows changed.  If you want to know the
number of rows matched, execute a SELECT which matches your WHERE clause:

    >>> db = MySQLdb.Connection(...)
    >>> c = db.cursor()
    >>> c.execute("select * from cities where city='San Jose'")
    4L
    >>> c.execute("update cities set city='San Jose' where city='San Jose'")
    0L

Skip




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 11:07:12 2003
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:07:12 +0100
Subject: Help with dialog box
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D014B299D@intrepid>

> From:	secun at yahoo.com [SMTP:secun at yahoo.com]
> Is there a way to have Python set focus on the dialog box and click OK 
> so my script can continue?
 
See <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000652.html>,
<http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000659.html>,
<http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000664.html> and
<http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000679.html> for a series
of articles on this sort of thing.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning.
--LongSig





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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.




From interstar at postmaster.co.uk  Fri Sep 19 16:02:35 2003
From: interstar at postmaster.co.uk (phil)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 13:02:35 -0700
Subject: python cgi problem with method = post
Message-ID: <d7825a3e.0309191202.dc02042@posting.google.com>

This is a quick plea on something that has me stumped.

I have a python script importing "cgi"

I developed my script on a local machine using method = get for
uploading form data.

My code worked locally and on the hosting service I'm using.

I changed to using method = post

On my local machine this change works transparently.

On my hosting service's machine, all the values that the form returns
to the script are now empty.

So, I don't expect anyone to be able to answer this ... but what
*kind* of thing should I be looking for? Is it to do with versions of
python (2.1.3 locally, 2.2 remotely) or "cgi"? Or the webserver (I'm
using Apache on Debian locally, I suspect my host is Apache on Red Hat
7.1)

Is it something I haven't thought of?

cheers

phil jones



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 09:35:31 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:35:31 GMT
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Jeff Epler wrote:
> 
>> If this did work, then you can use the DSU pattern like so:
>>
>> decorated_wordlist = [(locale.strxfrm(w), w) for w in wordlist]
>> decorated_wordlist.sort()
>> wordlist[:] = [i[1] for i in decorated_wordlist]
> 
> Everytime that someone posts a naive list.sort(compare), the DSU pattern
> is proposed to improve execution speed.
> 
> So maybe it's about time to change the sort() method to support a second
> argument
> 
> list.sort(compare=None, mapping=None)
> 
> that, if provided, would perform the DSU magic. Or was that already
> proposed and rejected?

I have not seen this proposed before, and I'm not very clear on what
the "compare" and "mapping" arguments are supposed to be in order to
let you specify any DSU.  Basically it seems you would need two
callables, "decorate" to be called with each item in the list (to
return for each item the decorated tuple) and "undecorate" to be
called with each decorated tuple after the sort (to return the item
for the result).  How do you turn that into "compare" and "mapping"?


Alex




From axel at straschil.com  Wed Sep 10 03:58:10 2003
From: axel at straschil.com (Axel Straschil)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:58:10 +0200
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
In-Reply-To: <3F5ECF7B.5070404@mxm.dk>
References: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
 <pan.2003.09.09.13.16.06.415215@thomas-guettler.de> <slrnblrp9e.i81.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
 <871xupg5uk.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnblsbr3.lsj.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
 <3F5ECF7B.5070404@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309100940260.5186-100000@pizza.home.kosnet.com>

Hallo!

> Have you used the page templates in Zope? They really are a thing of beauty.

Yes, zope's page templates are good. I've two site's where I'm using them.
My point of interest is:
If your are coding the html-output of a website with dtml/pt in Zope or 
php, you've got the problem that:
 - The webdesigner has to dig in your source
 - You must code your program like the html-code is comming, not the data
With the last point, I mean that that a html-page ist codet top down, and 
so dtml/pt are parest from the top to the bottom. 
Imagine I'm fetching an Article from via the network from an remote 
server, the Article has an caption and an content. I want to show the 
caption in the title-tag of the header, and the article somewhere nested 
in the body. With dtml/pt, I must either access the remote article server 
twice, or make a funny variable definition construktion. Not very nice!

If my output ist not html, it's xml, a can make an data-orientated output, 
not design orientated. Maybe dtml/pt is used to produce that xml-code, who 
cares. The webdesigner is starting at the OUTPUT of the xml-code, he is 
just seeing that (dynamic modifing) xml-code, he's never digging my 
source.

So, the last thing ist to convert that data-orientated xml to designers 
xhtml. It's like taking pieces of data from the xml and placing them 
on the webpage. No funking programming, yust templaging. I think for that, 
XSLT ist a good thing. But I'm just starting, maybe, in one or two weeks, 
I'll shredder all that X-Files, or maybe I'll love them ;-)

-- 
Lg,
Axel.
____________________________________________________
 /_\                        Tel: +43(699) 145 09 210
/|_ \xel                    Fax: +43(699) 445 09 210
  _|traschil              eMail:  axel at straschil.com
Public Key: http://www.kosnet.com/pgp-public-key.txt
Keyserver:	http://www.keyserver.net





From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 18 06:14:27 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:14:27 +0200
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org> <y8wmfu6t.fsf@python.net>
 <mailman.1063870645.4121.python-list@python.org> <oexifpa7.fsf@python.net>
 <mailman.1063877305.13273.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <isnqfloc.fsf@python.net>

Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:

> You wouldn't have some sample code on how I can use the socket module to
> test if I can connect to a given URL? (I would't want to rely on other
> modules than the ones in the standard library, so therefore I want to
> try this socket approach.)

Sorry, no. But it's easy to figure out yourself.

Thomas



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Sep 23 13:01:16 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:01:16 -0700
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-22C96A.10011623092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3f7069db_4 at corp.newsgroups.com>,
 "Tina Li" <tina_li23 AT hotmail DOT com> wrote:

> I've been struggling with a regular expression for parsing XML files, 
> which keeps giving the run time error "maximum recursion limit 
> exceeded".

Why not use a real XML parser?  xml.parsers.expat is easy enough to use, 
doesn't have problems with recursion limits, and will continue working 
when someone generates a valid XML file in a slightly different version 
than the one you expect.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Sep 23 11:33:23 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:33:23 +0200
Subject: load changes of subclasses
In-Reply-To: <bkpmki$4bc$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bkpmki$4bc$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <20030923153323.GA4145@nl.linux.org>

Tom wrote:
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:56:55 +0200
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a main program  that uses a lot of definitions in different classes.
> They are included like this:
> from subclass1 import *
> from subclass2 import *

Note that 'subclass1' and 'subclass2' are not classes, but modules. A
class is created with the 'class' statement:

class MyClass:
    def method(self):
        return "Hi there!"

A module is a file in the library.

> My problem is: whenever I make changes in one of the classes I have to 
> close and reopen the main program for the changes to take effect. This 
> is kind of annoying, because I always want to test if my changes are 
> correct and that's why I have to run the main program. Is there some 
> kind of a shortcut where I don't have to close and reopen the main program?

You can use the reload() function for that:
>>> print reload.__doc__
  reload(module) -> module

  Reload the module.  The module must have been successfully imported before.

> I hope this question is not too stupid, but I am still quite new to Python.

Stupid questions do not exist (hm, my first post here makes me think otherwise),
stupid answers do, so:

I hope this answer is not too stupid, but I am not a Computer Scientist.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
241. If any one impresses an ox for forced labor, he shall pay
one-third of a mina in money.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep 22 16:30:29 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 22:30:29 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> # The German es-zed is special--the normal mapping is to SS.
> # Note: the titlecase should never occur in practice. It is equal to
> titlecase(uppercase(<es-zed>))
> 
> 00DF; 00DF; 0053 0073; 0053 0053; # LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
> [...]
> 
> Thus, to comply with the standard, "?".upper() --> "SS" is required.

No. It would be required if .upper would claim to implement
SpecialCasing - but it makes no such claim.

> My personal impression is that, even before the orthography reform in 1998,
> the SZ variant was seldom used.

There is, of course, the famous "MASSE oder MASZE" example, in particular
in the form "WIR TRINKEN BIER IN MASSEN".

Regards,
Martin



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Sep  6 12:07:14 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 18:07:14 +0200
Subject: Standard Lib To Use New-Style Classes?
References: <mailman.1062838332.11747.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3vfs599zh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

John Abel <johnfabel at btinternet.com> writes:

> A while back, I saw a thread asking if the standard lib modules would
> be modified to use the new logging module, and it got me thinking.  As
> the new-style classes will be default for 2.4, will the standard lib
> modules be modified accordingly?

Who says newstyle classes will be the default in 2.4?

Patches in the direction of using newstyle classes more frequently are
probably encouraged, provided they demonstrate that they preserve
reasonable backwards compatibility.

Regards,
Martin



From colarte at telesat.com.co  Tue Sep 23 04:09:49 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:09:49 -0500
Subject: "Protected" property in Python?
In-Reply-To: <1rgll5pslncci.1iu0qs9ekf45q.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <1rgll5pslncci.1iu0qs9ekf45q.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <20030923030949.7aeccd48.colarte@telesat.com.co>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:22:44 -0600
Jules Dubois <bogus at invalid.tld> wrote:

> I'm want to create a superclass with nothing but attributes and properties.
> Some of the subclasses will do nothing but provide values for the
> attributes.  
> (I'd also like to make sure (1) that the subclass provides actual values
> for the attributes and (2) that no "client" module adds or removes
> attributes or properties, but I don't know how to do those.)
> I don't understand what I'm doing wrong, or maybe what I want to do is
> impossible.  Here's a stripped down version of the code:

	Question : why didn't you initialize your super class????
if you do it passing the values you want as arguments then you could have a code 
like : 
<PYTHON>
#! /usr/bin/python
class SuperClass(object):
    def __init__(self,stat_code):
#        self.__statusCode = "value bound in SUPERCLASS"
        self.__statusCode = stat_code
    getStatusCode = property(lambda self: self.__statusCode)
class SubClass(SuperClass):
    def __init__(self):
        self.__statusCode = "value bound in SUBCLASS"
        SuperClass.__init__(self,self.__statusCode  )
if __name__ == "__main__":
    s = SubClass()
    print s.getStatusCode 
    print
    try :
        print s.__statusCode
    except :
        print "cannot do that.. print s.__statusCode"
</PYTHON>

where you don't have private attributes visible and yet you have the values you
passed from the subclass.. 

NOTE : later on accessing those values from your sublass other than from the SuperClass initialization is other story...(setattribute,getattribute...or self.functions)
In your local python documentation.. read the tutorial section on classes:
/python2.2-doc/html/tut/node11.htm




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Sep 27 11:24:21 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:24:21 -0000
Subject: Access to database other web sites
References: <b125f336.0309260753.189000d8@posting.google.com> <87n0crbi8z.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <vnbat5ma1ti9ae@corp.supernews.com>

In article <87n0crbi8z.fsf at pobox.com>, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
>tibi87 at hanmail.net (Jenny) writes:
>
>> I am doing research about realationship between sales rates and
>> discounted prices or recommendation frequency. To do this, I need to
>> access the database of commercial web sites via internet. I think this
>> is possible because it it simmilar to the work of price comparison
>> sites and web robot.
>
>IIUYC, what you're contemplating is called "web scraping" -- at least,
>it is by Cameron Laird, and I like the name.  Others might know it as
>"web client programming".  Cameron wrote an article about this a while
>back (Unix Review?) which you might like if you're a newbie -- Google
>for it (but note that the Perl book he mentions has actually been
>replaced by a newer one by Sean Burke, also from O'Reilly).
>
>
>> I am studying python these days because I thinks it is a good language
>> for the work.
>[...]
>
>I think so too.
			.
		[excellent and detailed
		technical advice]
			.
			.
Also filling a niche in this territory is PyCurl <URL: http://pycurl.sf.net >.
The references at <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/WebScraping > are likely to be at
least inspirational.

I'm ... reserved about the prospects for the proposed research.  The commercial
sites you want to study are, in my experience, some of the most difficult to
"scrape".  Complementing that difficulty is the poverty of inference I antici-
pate you'll be able to ground on what you find there; their commerce has a lot
more noise than signal, as I see it.  'Twould be great, though, for you to
uncover something real.  Good luck.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Sep  5 20:52:55 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 00:52:55 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com> <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli9pochlcoc8e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bjbb57$bb2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:15:00 -0400, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
[...]

>If you don't have to write "self" as the first parameter of a method,
>that reduces the complexity. Everything else remains the same.
>
Except for cases where two self-parameters are visible at the same time,
and both are used in an inner scope and must be distinguished by giving
them different names. ISTM you'd have to turn off some dynamic capabilities
of python to make "self" implicit. (An example came up in a past discussion,
some time ago).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep 30 05:07:28 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:07:28 +0200
Subject: [PMW 1.2] Dialog controls vanish upon editing
Message-ID: <3f794786@news.swissonline.ch>

Hi all,

I use PMW 1.2 on Python 2.3.0 on Win2k.

I've created a dialog that looks like so:

                     +----------------------+
                Name |                      |
                     +----------------------+
                     +----------------------+
   Caption text head |                      |
                     +----------------------+
                     +----------------------+
   # Digits w/o sign |                      |
                     +----------------------+
                     +----------------------+
   Caption text tail |                      |
                     +----------------------+
                     +--+
         Is editable |  |
                     +--+
                     +--------------------+-+
      Parameter name |                    |V| Drop-down.
                     +--------------------+-+


I pull down the drop-down control, select an item, the drop-down closes
and - vanishes. All controls have vanished. After half a second or so the
first one reappears, but w/o its label 'Name'.

The other ones reapper if I click onto the pane where they are supposed to
be. They also reapper if I change to an other app and then come back again.
I guess this is because a window update is issued by the OS.

What do I miss?


Many thanks in advance and kind regards
Franz GEIGER


Code:

class QCWidgetNumberEditor(_Editor):
   '''
                     +----------------------+
                Name |                      |
                     +----------------------+
                     +----------------------+
   Caption text head |                      |
                     +----------------------+
                     +----------------------+
   # Digits w/o sign |                      |
                     +----------------------+
                     +----------------------+
   Caption text tail |                      |
                     +----------------------+
                     +--+
         Is editable |  |
                     +--+
                     +--------------------+-+ Drop-down. Offers only
existing
      Parameter name |                    |V| parameters, i.e. you have to
first
                     +--------------------+-+ create at least one parameter.
   '''

   def __init__(self, parent, x, y, traits=None):
      _Editor.__init__(self, parent)
      self._pos = (x, y)
      self._traits = traits
      self._isEditable = Tkinter.IntVar(0)
      self._createAndPackEntryFields_()
      return

   def traits(self):
      return self._traits

   def _createAndPackEntryFields_(self):

      w = Tkinter.Label(self.interior(),
                        pady = 20
                        )
      w.pack(expand = 1, fill = 'both', padx = 4, pady = 4)

      parent = w

      # Create and pack the EntryFields.
      nameId = ''
      if self._traits:
         nameId = self._traits.name()
      self._tkwNameId = Pmw.EntryField(parent,
                                       labelpos = 'w',
                                       value = nameId,
                                       label_text = 'Name of number
control:',
                                       validate = self._validateNameId_,
                                       modifiedcommand =
self._onChangedNameId_,
                                       command = self._onNameId_
                                       )
      textDisplayed = ''
      if self._traits:
         textDisplayed = self._traits.textHead()
      self._tkwTextDisplayedHead = Pmw.EntryField(parent,
                                                  labelpos = 'w',
                                                  value = textDisplayed,
                                                  label_text = 'Caption text
head:',
#                                                  validate = {'validator' :
'real',
#                                                              'min' : 10,
'max' : 99, 'minstrict' : 0
#                                                              },
                                                  modifiedcommand =
self._onChangedTextDisplayedHead_
                                                  )
      textDisplayed = '1'
      if self._traits:
         textDisplayed = str(self._traits.numDigitsExclSign())
      self._tkwNumDigitsExclSign = Pmw.EntryField(parent,
                                                  labelpos = 'w',
                                                  value = textDisplayed,
                                                  label_text = '# Digits w/o
sign:',
                                                  validate = {'validator' :
'integer',
                                                              'min' : 1,
'max' : 5, # 'minstrict' : 0
                                                              },
                                                  modifiedcommand =
self._onChangedNumDigits_
                                                  )
      textDisplayed = ''
      if self._traits:
         textDisplayed = self._traits.textTail()
      self._tkwTextDisplayedTail = Pmw.EntryField(parent,
                                                  labelpos = 'w',
                                                  value = textDisplayed,
                                                  label_text = 'Caption text
tail:',
                                                  modifiedcommand =
self._onChangedTextDisplayedTail_
                                                  )

      if self._traits:
         self._isEditable.set(self._traits.isEditable())
      else:
         self._isEditable.set(0)
      tkwIsEditable = Tkinter.Checkbutton(parent,
                                          variable=self._isEditable,
                                          text='Editable on target',
                                          command=self._onToggleIsEditable_
                                          )

      paramNames = Proxy.DataProxy().parameterNames()
      self._tkwParamName = Pmw.ComboBox(parent,
                                        labelpos = 'nw',
                                        scrolledlist_items=paramNames,
                                        label_text="Parameter name"
                                        )
      i = 0
      if self._traits:
         paramName = self._traits.parameterName()
         try: i = paramNames.index(paramName)
         except ValueError:
            pass

      try:
self._tkwParamName.selectitem(Proxy.DataProxy().parameterNames()[i])
      except IndexError: pass

      entries = (self._tkwNameId,
                 self._tkwTextDisplayedHead,
                 self._tkwNumDigitsExclSign,
                 self._tkwTextDisplayedTail,
                 tkwIsEditable,
                 self._tkwParamName
                 )

      for entry in entries:
         entry.pack(fill='x', expand=1, padx=10, pady=5)
      Pmw.alignlabels(entries)

      self._tkwNameId.component('entry').focus_set()

      return

   def _execute_(self, event):
      if event == 'OK':
         nameId = self._tkwNameId.getvalue()
         textDisplayedHead = self._tkwTextDisplayedHead.getvalue()
         numDigits = int(self._tkwNumDigitsExclSign.getvalue())
         textDisplayedTail = self._tkwTextDisplayedTail.getvalue()
         isEditable = self._isEditable.get()
         paramName = self._tkwParamName.get()
         if nameId and numDigits > 0 and paramName:
            param = Proxy.DataProxy().parameters(paramName)
            self._traits = QCWidgetTraits.QCWidgetNumberTraits(nameId,
                                                               self._pos[0],
self._pos[1],

textDisplayedHead,
                                                               numDigits,

textDisplayedTail,
                                                               isEditable,
                                                               paramName
                                                               )

      self.deactivate()
      return

   def _onChangedTextDisplayedHead_(self):
      text = self._tkwTextDisplayedHead.getvalue()
      return

   def _onChangedNameId_(self):
      return

   def _onChangedNumDigits_(self):
      text = self._tkwNumDigitsExclSign.getvalue()
      return

   def _onChangedTextDisplayedTail_(self):
      text = self._tkwTextDisplayedTail.getvalue()
      return

   def _onToggleIsEditable_(self):
      return

   def _onNameId_(self):
      return

   def _validateFunName_(self, text):
      return 1 # 2DO

   def _validateNameId_(self, text):
      if Proxy.DataProxy().parameterExists(text):
         return -1
      return 1











From ndalton at lastminute.com  Wed Sep 17 07:06:34 2003
From: ndalton at lastminute.com (Niall Dalton)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:06:34 +0100
Subject: Wrapper for libevent?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.17.11.06.34.349815@lastminute.com>

Hello,

Has anyone already wrapped libevent for use in Python?

Regards,
niall



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Sep 30 17:19:58 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:19:58 -0400
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>
 <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <blbupn$pf6$0@216.39.172.122>
 <mailman.1064945567.4139.python-list@python.org>
 <blcns9$atqph$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <+Nfe/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Taking up Bengt's suggestion, and some various others, I created a bit
array version of the primality data structure.  That is, each bit of the
file 'primes.bitarray' encodes the primality of the number corresponding
to its bit position.  However, only ODD numbers are mentioned in this
file, since it's rather easy to rule out evens (and special case 2).
This produces a 6.25 mB file for the first 10**8 numbers.

I was disappointed that gzip only reduces the size by 41%.  I would have
guessed better, given the predominance of 0 bits.  Still, no reason not
to use the [gzip] module to read the data.  You can download the data
file, if you wish, at:

    http://gnosis.cx/download/primes.bitarray.gz

I decided to check how quickly I can check primality using this data
structure.  Pretty well, to my mind (for reference, I have a PIII
733Mhz; nothing very fast for nowadays).  Here's the code:

    #!/usr/bin/python
    import gzip

    bit_source = gzip.open('primes.bitarray.gz')
    prime_bits = bit_source.read(100000)

    def isPrime(N):
        "Check primality on pre-generated bit field (read more as needed)"
        if N < 2:       return False
        elif N==2:      return True
        elif not N % 2: return False
        else:
            # Check if we need to extend prime_bits
            global prime_bits
            if 8*len(prime_bits) < N:
                needed = 1+(N//8) - len(prime_bits)
                prime_bits += bit_source.read(needed)
            byte, bit = divmod(N, 16)
            bit = 7 - bit//2
            return ord(prime_bits[byte]) & 2**bit

    if __name__=='__main__':
        from time import clock
        from random import randint
        # generate a million numbers to check
        tests = []
        for _ in xrange(10**6):
            tests.append(randint(1,10**8))
        start = clock()
        primes = 0
        for n in tests:
            if isPrime(n): primes += 1
        print "%d primes in 1e6 numbers (%.2f secs)" % (primes,clock()-start)

Here's the timing:

    % test_bits.py
    57546 primes in 1e6 numbers (29.57 secs)

I figured there was no need to read the whole data file in unless a
check required it--I just read in a smallish 100k at initialization.  Of
course, in the course of a million tests, I am pretty sure I wind up
reading in essentially the whole file at some point.

One nice thing to do would be to make 'bit_source' a bit smarter.  I.e.
it could be a class that generated more primes when needed (maybe using
gmpy as Alex suggests).  In principle, 'isPrime()' could then check
unbounded primes (subject to time and resource constraints).

The next thing would probably be to store sparce accumulations as Bengt
suggested (and Alex implemented in a different fashion).  That is,
another structure could store "every 1000th prime" in order to answer
questions like "how-many-less-than" and "which-is-Nth-prime".

Maybe I'll Emile's bitcounting techniques to do this.

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From oblivious at web.de  Fri Sep 26 16:30:31 2003
From: oblivious at web.de (Dominic)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:30:31 +0200
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
In-Reply-To: <TXTcb.124120$hE5.4241274@news1.tin.it>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it> <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com> <bkvbb5$6mi$00$1@news.t-online.com> <TXTcb.124120$hE5.4241274@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F74A1E7.5040102@web.de>

Well, first of all I agree with you that
a more traditional approach using queues
is better and more predictable.

And yes on a single CPU machine I was
thinking about stopping all "low priority"
threads.

This is somehow creaky and fragile but
you don't need a thread per "task" as
in your queue based alternative.

So you could have 3000 "tasks" and
one thread e.g.
However every "task" would need to recover
from it's injected exception which
is kind of unpredictable and hard to program.

I would not use such an architecture ;-)

Now to the delay:

from testx import interrupt
from thread import start_new_thread,exit
from time import sleep,ctime
from sys import stdin,stdout

def f():
	try:
		while 1:
			sleep(1)
			print 'hi there', ctime()
			stdout.flush()
	except StandardError:
		print 'done: ',ctime()
	exit()



tid=start_new_thread(f,())

sleep(1)

print 'initiate:',ctime()

interrupt(tid, StandardError())

print 'press any key'

stdin.readline()


result="""
[dh at hawk Python]$ python2.3 main.py
initiate: Sat Sep 27 00:11:30 2003
press any key
hi there Sat Sep 27 00:11:30 2003
hi there Sat Sep 27 00:11:31 2003
hi there Sat Sep 27 00:11:32 2003
hi there Sat Sep 27 00:11:33 2003
hi there Sat Sep 27 00:11:34 2003
hi there Sat Sep 27 00:11:35 2003
hi there Sat Sep 27 00:11:36 2003
hi there Sat Sep 27 00:11:37 2003
done:  Sat Sep 27 00:11:37 2003

[dh at hawk Python]$
"""

machine="""
Linux hawk 2.4.18-6mdk #1 Fri Mar 15 02:59:08 CET 2002 i686 unknown
"""

testx="""
# Pyrex version 0.8.2

cdef extern int PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(long id, obj)


def interrupt(id, obj):
	        PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(id, obj)
		
"""

As you can see it takes about 7 seconds until the
exception is injected.

Ciao,
  Dominic



> 
> 
>>While playing with the new feature I noticed that it
>>takes a long time (>3 seconds) until the exception is thrown.
>>In contrast to the possibility to interrupt the main thread
>>with interrupt_main which seems not to be delayed.
> 
> 
> Hmmmm... care to show exactly the code you've been trying?
> I get EXACTLY opposite results, as follows...:
> 
> 
> import time
> import thread
> import threadex
> 
> def saywhen():
>     for x in xrange(100000):
>         time.sleep(0.1)
> 
> def intemain():
>     global when_sent
>     when_sent = None
>     time.sleep(1.0)
>     when_sent = time.time()
>     thread.interrupt_main()
>     time.sleep(1.0)
> 
> im_delays = []
> for i in range(10):
>     tid = thread.start_new_thread(intemain, ())
>     try:
>         saywhen()
>     except:
>         when_received = time.time()
>     im_delays.append(when_received - when_sent)
> 
> def get_interrupted():
>     global when_received
>     when_received = None
>     try:
>         saywhen()
>     except:
>         when_received = time.time()
> 
> it_delays = []
> for i in range(10):
>     tid = thread.start_new_thread(get_interrupted, ())
>     time.sleep(1.0)
>     when_sent = time.time()
>     threadex.threadex(tid, KeyboardInterrupt)
>     time.sleep(1.0)
>     it_delays.append(when_received - when_sent)
> 
> main_id = thread.get_ident()
> def intemain1():
>     global when_sent
>     when_sent = None
>     time.sleep(1.0)
>     when_sent = time.time()
>     threadex.threadex(main_id, KeyboardInterrupt)
>     time.sleep(1.0)
> 
> im1_delays = []
> for i in range(10):
>     tid = thread.start_new_thread(intemain1, ())
>     try:
>         saywhen()
>     except:
>         when_received = time.time()
>     im1_delays.append(when_received - when_sent)
> 
> 
> im_delays.sort()
> im1_delays.sort()
> it_delays.sort()
> print 'IM:', im_delays
> print 'IT:', it_delays
> print 'IM1:', im1_delays
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Module threadex is a tiny interface exposing as 'threadex'
> the PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc function.  And the results on
> my Linux (Mandrake 9.1) box are as follows...:
> 
> 
> [alex at lancelot sae]$ python pai.py
> IM: [2.4993209838867188, 2.4998600482940674, 2.4998999834060669,
> 2.4999450445175171, 2.4999510049819946, 2.4999560117721558,
> 2.4999659061431885, 2.499967098236084, 2.4999990463256836,
> 2.5000520944595337]
> IT: [0.20004498958587646, 0.39922797679901123, 0.39999902248382568,
> 0.40000700950622559, 0.40000808238983154, 0.40002298355102539,
> 0.40002298355102539, 0.40002405643463135, 0.40003299713134766,
> 0.40004003047943115]
> IM1: [0.10003900527954102, 0.39957892894744873, 0.40000700950622559,
> 0.40000796318054199, 0.40001499652862549, 0.40002000331878662,
> 0.40003204345703125, 0.40003299713134766, 0.40004301071166992,
> 0.40005004405975342]
> [alex at lancelot sae]$
> 
> i.e., interrupt_main takes a very repeatable 2.5 seconds;
> PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc typically 0.4 seconds, whether it's
> going from main to secondary thread or viceversa, with occasional
> "low peaks" of 0.1 or 0.2 seconds.  Of course, it's quite
> possible that there may be something biased in my setup, or
> it may be a platform issue.  But I'd be quite curious to
> see the code you base your observation on.
> 
> 
> Alex
> 





From amk at amk.ca  Fri Sep  5 12:20:06 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:20:06 -0500
Subject: How to override distutils install?
References: <mailman.1062772580.1097.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GECdnSDQHtUrKsWiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:35:39 -0500, 
	Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> I would like to override the distutils install class.  It doesn't look like
> it was designed for that.  Do I have to import distutils.command and

Supply a cmd_class argument to setup(), like this:

setup(name = ...,
      cmdclass = {'build_py': qx_build_py},
     )
     
qx_build_py is a Command subclass that will be used in place of the default
build_py target.

--amk

	      



From petitmermet at mat.ethz.ch  Sat Sep 20 15:10:46 2003
From: petitmermet at mat.ethz.ch (Marc Petitmermet)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:10:46 +0200
Subject: raw string
Message-ID: <petitmermet-7E9286.21104520092003@pfaff2-rz-fast.ethz.ch>

I can do the following replacement:

r"kr\xdf6;ger".replace('\\','&#')
-> 'kr&#xdf6;ger'

But how can I do this using a variable which contains the above string? 
Obviously, the following code returns not the string with replacement 
but the name of the variable itself:

name = "kr\xdf6;ger"
r"name".replace('\\','&#')
-> 'r"name"

Sorry, if this is a stupid question but I have not found an answer so 
far (or I have been using the wrong keywords for searching).

Thanks for any help.
Regards,
Marc



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep 12 04:06:25 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:06:25 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Canvas/Grid question
References: <vlvm553ie2is04@corp.supernews.com> <bjp90r$1ng$07$1@news.t-online.com> <vm1qhqmc9qiob5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bjrut1$hiq$00$1@news.t-online.com>

"Gary Richardson" <garyr at fidalgo.net>
> Michael, Jeff,
>
> Thanks for your replies. I made the changes indicated above and the
resizing
> works just fine now. I'm still puzzled as to why pack() would be used with
> the frame and grid() used with the canvas, and other widgets.

No, no! I just use pack() because it is much simpler and you made no
constraints as to how to show the frame in the toplevel.. There is a lot of
useful information in that chapter from Nacy Welsh's book

.....
> was under the impression that only a single geometry manager should be
used
> in a program. I guess the rule is: a single geometry manager must be used
> within a frame and its descendants. Is that correct?

Nearly. You can freely choose the g.m. in EVERY frame (but then stick to it
in THAT frame)

Kindly
Michael P







From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep 30 01:36:09 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:36:09 +0200
Subject: ANN Tkinter Calendar Widget
References: <mailman.1064886460.11442.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f7915fd@news.swissonline.ch>

Looks good. Wouldn't this be a good contribution to PMW?

Regards
Franz GEIGER


"Camilo Olarte" <colarte at telesat.com.co> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1064886460.11442.python-list at python.org...
> If you ever need a calendar dialog in Tkinter , You can use mine:
> http://pythonical.sourceforge.net/pyTkCalendar.html
> Camilo Olarte
>





From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sat Sep 27 05:02:03 2003
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:02:03 +0200
Subject: monolith py2exe
References: <mailman.1064601277.12630.python-list@python.org> <brt7b9c7.fsf@python.net> <Ll1db.17375$lZ6.4494882@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Xns940370EECBE85cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Max,

> once we are on the topic, has there been any movement to do a monolith 
> option for py2exe (e.g. there is only one exe, no dlls necessary). this 
> is somewhat useful because the exe can be freely moved around without 
> worrying about the dlls.

This would be a VERY GOOD THING. All the PYDs and DLLs and so on in ONE 
file. Yes, that would lead to 2-4 pythonXX.dlls in memory ... yes, all the 
other DLLs (wxPython...) would be more than one time in memory, and on 
disk...


But: some compression added (UPX) the files would be of reasonable size 
(below 20MB), and distribution would become a charme.

+1 for this wish

Harald



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 08:49:24 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:49:24 GMT
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <odCbb.139591$R32.4375735@news2.tin.it>

jblazi wrote:

> I should like to search certain characters in a string and when they are
> found, I want to replace other characters in other strings that are at
> the same position (for a very simply mastermind game) for my pupils.
> 
> This very simple thing does not seem simple at all.
> 
> If I use strings, I cannot replace their parts (though I can use
> string.find for the searching). I think it is a bad idea that strings are
> not mutable, but I suspect that this has been discussed here for ages.

Not really (most of us appear to have no problems with immutable
strings).  And indeed I don't see what's complicated with your task,
at all.  Suppose the string you're "searching certain characters in"
is held by variable "searched_string", the characters you are
searching in (any sequence, list or other) variable "characters",
the "other strings" are (e.g.) all the items of list "otherstrings",
and finally the replacement characters are in dictionary "replacers"
indexed by the found characters and with a default of say '*' when
a found character is not a key in "replacers".  Note that all of
these or similar hypotheses are obviously needed whether strings
are mutable or not.

Now, if strings were mutable, the obvious solution (avoiding
exceptions, as you asked) might be:

for c in characters:
    where = searched_string.find(c)
    if where<0: continue
    replace_with = replacers.get(c, '*')
    for another in otherstrings:
        if where < len(another):
            another[where] = replace_with

Now since strings are NOT mutable, you need to change this to:

for c in characters:
    where = searched_string.find(c)
    if where<0: continue
    replace_with = replacers.get(c, '*')
    for i, another in enumerate(otherstrings):
        otherstrings[i] = another[:where] + replace_with + another[where+1:]

i.e, keep track of the index and set there another string build of
three parts -- preceding, replace_with, succeeding.  In this case
you do not have to ensure that where<len(another) -- if that
condition does not hold then replace_with will just be "appended"
to the "other string" (slicing is more tolerant than indexing).  If
you want the same semantics as above (no change to "other strings"
that are shorter than the 'where' point requires) then you'll just
have to add the same guard in this second case, of course.

Basically, the change from "x[y]=z" to "x=x[:y]+z+x[y+1:]" is just
not "traumatic" enough, in my opinion, to warrant considering this
a seriously complicated problem ("not seem simple at all").  If
you need to explain it to beginners by analogy: imagine you have an
original document that you're not allowed to alter, for example
because that document is bound and you don't want to, or cannot,
break its binding; despite this, you are requested to "change page
4 into this one" to make a new version.  Then, just "photocopy" 
pages 1 to 3, and pages 5 and following, and in the new version 
collate (first) the copies of original pages 1 to 3, (then)
the new "this one", and (finally) the copies of pages 5 and 
following of the original document.  Since not all documents one
meets in real life come in "flexible" bindings where one can
remove and replace pages, the analogy should be quite clear, IMHO.


Alex





From pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com  Mon Sep  1 16:44:59 2003
From: pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com (Paul D. Fernhout)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:44:59 -0400
Subject: Object Database (ODBMS) for Python
In-Reply-To: <3f53ad7e_5@corp.newsgroups.com>
References: <mailman.1062442562.22074.python-list@python.org> <3f53ad7e_5@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <3f53af79_5@corp.newsgroups.com>

Paul D. Fernhout wrote:
> Thanks for the pointer to e4graph. I found more info about it here:
>   http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm

Oops, sorry, I had the wrong url in my cut&paste buffer and didn't do 
not enough proofreading. The (incorrect, and unrelated) URL I posted 
came from this recent Slashdot article:
   http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/31/182228&mode=thread
on the future of jobs given robotics.

The correct URL for the e4graph introduction I quoted is:
   http://www.e4graph.com/e4graph/e4graphintro.html

--Paul Fernhout
http://www.pointrel.org



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



From abuseonly at sgrail.org  Thu Sep  4 18:37:38 2003
From: abuseonly at sgrail.org (derek / nul)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:37:38 GMT
Subject: Can't Open PY Files
References: <mailman.1062712281.5081.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pefflv0vjagvps8bp9uq85j7hltk8ai494@4ax.com>

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:35:05 +1000, "Roger Booth" <rogerb at netspeed.com.au> wrote:

>I've recently downloaded and installed Python23 and am having trouble getting it to function.
>
>I've set the Windows 2000 path variable "C:\Python23" but when I type "python" in a dos command line I get a message saying
>  "'PYTHON' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program of batch file".
>
>It does open when I type in the full path, and via Start\Programs\Python23, but when I enter "import 'filename'" from a file's home
> directory, I get a message saying: "no module named 'filename'".

While in your dos box, what is the output of path?  Is the python path on the
end?

I have to call python file like this python myprogram.py

Derek



From syver at inout.no  Thu Sep 18 07:20:10 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:20:10 +0200
Subject: DLL info
References: <b03da24326888105a23a49b85f0660bb@news.meganetnews.com>
Message-ID: <ubrtis5qt.fsf@inout.no>

"Ladv?nszky K?roly" <lk at digicart.hu> writes:

> Could someone suggest me how to gather various information (version number
> etc.) from a Windows DLL?
> Thanks for any help,

I looked at win32 all but it seems the functions aren't exposed
there. Grap ctypes by Thomas Heller and the MSDN Platform SDK
documenation. 

Here's what you need:


from ctypes import *
windll.version.GetFileVersionInfoA

Or:
windll.version.GetFileVersionInfoW




From tismer at tismer.com  Wed Sep  3 07:23:18 2003
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:23:18 +0200
Subject: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.7 running with Stackless 3.0
In-Reply-To: <3F5577AD.9030702@zope.com>
References: <3F4D44EB.5010500@tismer.com> <3F4DF1E7.1010103@zope.com> <3F4E3CE1.5030405@tismer.com> <3F4E47DF.9060800@zope.com> <3F526AE3.50608@tismer.com> <3F5577AD.9030702@zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F55CF26.502@tismer.com>

Hi Shane,

> Christian Tismer wrote:
> 
>> Since you have written the Boa debugger, can you help
>> me what exactly you would need?
>> There has been a request to find the function that
>> created a frame, recently on the main list.
>> Do you think such a feature would make writing
>> edit-and-continue simpler, or is it not needed?
> 
> 
> Let me think out loud for a moment:
> 
> The debugging-aware editor tells the debugger that file X, lines M-N,
> have changed, and that the debugger should reload that code before
> continuing.  If the debugger can find a loaded module that corresponds
> with that file, the debugger should compile it using the compile()
> builtin, then pull code objects out of the compiled module.  The
> debugger should then modify every affected code object in the module.

Sounds tricky, anyway. If code is changed that logically
comes before the current line, how to get the locals
right, or changed scope and such, without re-executing
the code so far?

> The tricky part is that there's a very good chance the user edited code
> that's on the stack.  We can examine the stack, looking for code objects
> that got replaced in the step above.  We can identify replaced code
> objects by the co_filename and co_firstline attributes.  When we find a
> match, we need to replace the code object on the stack with new code.
> In other words, "frame.f_code = new_code".  Now for the super-tricky
> part: we need to set the frame's f_lasti and f_lineno to reasonable
> values.

I think that's not *that* hard. The debugger would support a
"set next statement", anyway, and by default we could either
try to be on the same line (numerically) as before editing,
or try to do a match on the source code.
There is alost nothing on the frame stack between lines,
just some trivial flags in case of conditionals.

> It would be possible to compute the new f_lineno if the editor
> told us exactly which lines were inserted or deleted.  Maybe we could
> base f_lasti on f_lineno by searching the bytecode for a specific
> SET_LINENO instruction.  We could enhance that with an instruction
> offset computed by examining the original f_lasti and f_lineno.  Yes, I
> think that could work, except when the user edits code on the very line
> that is being executed, in which case we should probably give up and
> tell the user that the debugger needs to restart or continue with old code.

Or, this is at least solvable, somehow.

> So Stackless' role in all of this is essentially the ability to set the
> f_code, f_lineno, and f_lasti attributes of a frame object, or to mimic
> that capability in some way.  I'm not sure that anything else is needed.
>  I wonder how difficult it would be to patch standard Python to support
> this.

Supporting this is easy for both Pythons.
One problem with Standard Python is that
the C interpreter is using the frame, and some
variables are local to the C stack. Not so much
of a problem, we just have to escape the frame,
modify it, and restart it. This is implemented
in a limited way for generators, and of course
this is completey supported by Stackless. Leaving and
re-entering frames is Stackless' job all the time.

The need to update a code object that is on the
frame stack is in fact almost impossible without
stackless, since all frames on the stack are on the
C stack as well, and they are not closed. The
nested interpreters would have to be unwound and
re-established. This is impossible at the moment,
or would need a larger patch. This patch exists,
it has the name Stackless.
As nother benefit, you can even decide to continue
debugging tomorrow, and simply pickle your running
program or even your whole session to the disk.

...

> In my previous email, I was suggesting that you talk to one of the IDE
> companies about getting *paid* (either as a contractor or employee) to
> make Stackless the ideal platform for IDEs. :-)

Now I understand, thanks a lot. I didn't remember that
those you mentioned were commercial companies.
I will try to make them interested, of course.

many thanks -- chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/






From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Wed Sep 17 10:06:03 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:06:03 +0200
Subject: Simple python cgi question
References: <MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <87llsnmrw4.fsf@flibuste.net>

Stephen Boulet <stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net> writes:

> First of all, I'm not sure that the easiest way to do this is with
> python ...
>
> I'd like to set up a web page that would accept a text file, process
> it with a local program, and then make available generated pdf and
> postscript files for downloading.
>
> I'd like to limit the size of the file to be uploaded.
>
> I have apache2 already up. Is this a job for (mod_)python?

Yes why not ?

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From soundwave56 at yahoo.ca  Wed Sep  3 16:42:24 2003
From: soundwave56 at yahoo.ca (Hank)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 13:42:24 -0700
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
Message-ID: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

I have a CSV file from excel that looks like this (simplified):

name,description,type1,type2,name,filename
test1,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
test2,another test,1.000,0.000,newname,filename
test3,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
test4,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
test5,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
test6,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,



what i want at the end is a dictionary like

dict1[name] = test1
dict1[description] = "this is a test"
.
.
.
dict2[name] = test2
dict2[description] = "another test"

whats a fast and quick way of parsing it? Look for the first comma,
strip that entry out of the string, keep going? Thought there might be
some shortcuts.

Thanks



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Sep  2 03:45:00 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:45:00 +0200
Subject: beep is not genrated by python (was Re: just a beep)
References: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <000701c370e7$892ed550$5401a8c0@borg.fielden.com.au> <mailman.1062462663.24438.python-list@python.org> <bj11dv$rl9$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <bj1hq1$u8i$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Leo" wrote:

> so again: is there a more robust and terminal independent way to
> generate a beep?

on windows, use winsound.Beep:

>>> import winsound
>>> help(winsound.Beep)
Help on built-in function Beep:

Beep(...)
    Beep(frequency, duration) - a wrapper around the Windows Beep API

    The frequency argument specifies frequency, in hertz, of the sound.
    This parameter must be in the range 37 through 32,767.
    The duration argument specifies the number of milliseconds.
    On WinNT and 2000, the platform Beep API is used directly.  Else funky
    code doing direct port manipulation is used; it's unknown whether that
    will work on all systems.

</F>







From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 18 03:10:34 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:10:34 +0200
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y8wmfu6t.fsf@python.net>

Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
> is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
> straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with sockets
> and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.

For windows?

<http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.windows/969>

Thomas



From link0937 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 05:26:31 2003
From: link0937 at hotmail.com (Link)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:26:31 +0800
Subject: How to load the DLL with PyRun_SimpleString?
References: <bkou2f$i5l$1@news.seed.net.tw> <u1xu7rhk3.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <bkp3oh$je3$1@news.seed.net.tw>

Exactelly, the named example is .DLL  and put it on the sys.path.

That I had check it carefully.
But the result make me sad what I failed to load.

Could you give me more advice? Such as  the other statement for loading DLL
as same as the 'PyRun_SimpleString' command.

Regards,
Link

"Syver Enstad" <syver-en+usenet at online.no>
???????:u1xu7rhk3.fsf at online.no...
> "Link" <link0937 at hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Have anyone know how to import the DLL in C program?
> >
> >
> > Actually, I have used the statement 'PyRun_SimpleString' to import
> > .PY,
> >
> >
> > Such as,
> > r = PyRun_SimpleString("import os");
> > It's be fine.
> >
> >
> > If importing the DLL by this commdand,
> >
> > Such as,
> > r = PyRun_SimpleString("import example");
> >
> > return the error code -1.
>
> Is the .dll named .pyd? Is the .pyd on your sys.path?
>
>
> --
>
> Vennlig hilsen
>
> Syver Enstad





From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep 30 17:41:34 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 23:41:34 +0200
Subject: PEP-0263 and default encoding
References: <3f782aef-bdbbd6f1-a72a-4a6c-8b23-c4915b89a61f@news.szn.dk> <blaau5$b0r$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr> <vnhh7etad1t566@news.supernews.com> <3f79171c-d4c587aa-d4ac-44b9-97da-5e0024d4d268@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <m3fziedkdt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Klaus Alexander Seistrup <spam at magnetic-ink.dk> writes:

> Python barfs if there are non-ASCII characters in comments and there
> is no coding-line.

Not necessarily. An UTF-8 BOM would do just as well.

> Still beats me why it doesn't use the sys.getdefaultencoding() instead
> of inconveniencing me.

See my other message.

REgards,
Martin



From amk at amk.ca  Wed Sep  3 10:03:57 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:03:57 -0500
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com> <vqOdnRuMAaBofMiiRVn-hg@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <Gtmdnc6WsOhQaciiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net>

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:40:48 +0100, 
	Jim Dabell <jim-usenet at jimdabell.com> wrote:
> If it's too much, buy it second-hand.  It's a good book, and although
> plenty of it is just common sense, it's the type of common sense that's
> easy to miss :)

Isn't it mostly concerned with C, though?  McConnell's _Rapid Development_
is pretty good, though, and examined the development process more than
language-related things.

--amk



From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Thu Sep 11 18:04:27 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:04:27 +0200
Subject: Web server with Python
Message-ID: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com>

Hi all, 
after my unsuccessful try to run Apache 2 with mod_python and Python
2.3, I am looking for an alternative approach.
My aim is to write a small web-based application:

Python
- the solution must be based / usable on Python 2.3

Portability
Targeted plaforms are
- Windows 2000 Server
- Windows XP Pro
- AIX 5.1

Webserver:
- supporting up to 50 concurrent client connections
- must be able to use Python 2.3 to create dynamic pages
I can think of 3 alternatives to Apache:
- Medusa
- Twisted
- Zope
Which one is the easiest to work with? Which one is known to work on an
AIX 5.1 platform, for instance?

Persistent storage
- Is ZODB easily usable from outside Python, i.e. to produce reports
without reverting to programming?
- Is MySQL with Python a good combination?


Regards,
-PU



From gcraib at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 17 02:07:28 2003
From: gcraib at hotmail.com (Gordon)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 23:07:28 -0700
Subject: Python exercises
Message-ID: <3d19203b.0309162207.153b9922@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of some
online exercises to help me learn to program (in Python).

I'm currently working through Magnus Hetland's Practical Python, which
doesn't have any exercises/problem sets (for the beginning chapters on
things like string manipulation etc). I'd rather not get another book.

Cheers,
Gordon



From hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl  Tue Sep 16 09:17:18 2003
From: hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:17:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Directory names from untrusted data
References: <MNOdnanSnsAUrv6iRVn-uw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbme3at.edg.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:08:52 +0100, Jim Dabell <jim-usenet at jimdabell.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm in the middle of writing a small app for Linux that needs to create
> directories that take their names from untrusted data.  If possible, I'd
> like to preserve special characters rather than switching them with dummy
> characters.  For instance, using bash, I'd just escape characters with

Preserving characters supplied by untrusted data sounds like you do
trust your supplier at least a little bit. Depending on how paranoid you
are and how secure you must be, this may be dangerous.

> backslashes when I want to create a directory name with, say, a slash in.
> 
> I've been through the manual, Google and Usenet, and I've done a bit of
> experimenting, but I can't seem to find a way of doing this in python.  The

Do what in Python?
Filtering chars or making dirs?
Both can easily be done in Python

Filtering:

safename=''
for kar in untrustedname:
    if kar in string.letters:
       safename=safename+kar
    else:
       safename=safename+'_'

Making dir:

os.path.mkdir(safename)


Obviously, the code above is extremely non-secure, you should do some
checking on existance of the directory name, provide an atomic creation
primitive, and set the access rights to something sensible.

> only thing I can think of is to spawn a bash shell to do it, which I'd
> rather not have to do.  Does anybody have a better way of doing this? 
> Also, are there any other things I should watch out for (e.g. excessively
> long names)?

Short answer: Everything, including all things you think you can trust.

Longer answer: Read a few docs about secure programming to get
sufficiently paranoid.



Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.



From maney at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 19:05:08 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:05:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F5891C8.A7DD1A20@hotmail.com> <bjcspl$6l4$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bjdp74$nr2$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> McMaster Bujold (start with _Shards of Honor_, but don't read _Barrayar_
> yet if you pick up the _Cordelia's Honor_ omnibus).

Are you advising the traditional publication order or reading here?  I
did that the first time; last year I went through them again in
internal chronology sequence, and damned if I don't think they work
just perfectly well that way.  I suspect Baen, and presumably Lois,
would agree, as that seems to be the way they're packaging the omnibus
reissues, at least mostly.

> Social SF: anything by Ursual K. LeGuin, _Courtship Rite_ by Donald
> Kingsbury

I stumbled across Kingsbury's _Psychohistorical Crisis_ at a bargin book
outlet early this year, and thought it was absolutely stunning.  I have
to keep telling myself it's too soon to reread it, yet.  A couple
months ago I had to dig out CR as a surrogate.  I hadn't read it in
donkey's years, and I'm happy to say that I found it had aged very
well.

No, Martin, it is still TOO SOON!  <rumble rumble ...>

(this group/list is dangerous.  just a few hours ago I was looking
forward to finishing _Death in a Tenured Position_; now it's looking
more like a obstacle that wants overcoming.  sheesh!  maybe i can find
some nice python programming project to distract me...)

-- 
The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away,
for expedients, and by parts.  -- Edmund Burke



From dakidd at sonic.net  Sun Sep 14 17:45:16 2003
From: dakidd at sonic.net (Don Bruder)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:45:16 GMT
Subject: Huh?!?!? What is it that I'm seeing here?
Message-ID: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>

First off, I'm a non-Python type person - I prefer a compiled language, 
when the option is available, with a strong preference for C and/or C++. 
(Sorry, boyz-n-girlz, I'm not interested in "You need to learn a real 
language like _________" fights, or debates over the merits and/or 
shortcomings of C/C++ - C/C++ is what I want the program I'm working 
with to be written in, and that means that all discussion regarding 
language choice is moot. End of discussion there.)

I'm in the process of trying to convert a Python script/program or  
whatever the favored term is into C and/or C++, and of course, due to my 
unfamiliarity with Python, I'm hitting some stuff that looks to be 
idiomatic, without being able to locate a definition/description of the 
idiom. Most of what I'm messing with seems pretty straightforward - it's 
converting nicely into C++, and with my testing so far, appears to be 
performing properly (albeit somewhat inefficiently, since I haven't done 
any tweaking yet) but one particular construct has me stumped. It looks 
like this:

if __name__ == '__main__':
  run(argv[1:])

This (or a markedly similar construct) sits all by its lonesome self at 
the bottom of several of the source files, apparently not part of any 
class or declaration. It seems to be *FAIRLY* common in the group of 
files that make up the program, which makes me think it may be some sort 
of "preprocessor directive" type thing, similar to a C construct that 
would conditionally compile in a "main()" routine if a given symbol 
is/isn't defined. In all cases where this construct appears, there's a 
corresponding "run()" method, which, confusingly, appears to be outside 
the scope of any lexical blocks that I can recognize, so I've got no 
contextual clue there...

I've paged through all the online Python docs I can find, but although I 
recall seeing a reference to __name__ as some sort of special 
variable/identifier, that was when I first came up against the language, 
so I paid no attention at that time. Now, when I actually NEED it, I 
can't LOCATE it! Can anybody help me out here? Judging by how common it 
is in the files in this program, and the fact that I simply cannot 
re-find the discussion of the "__name__" thing, I have to assume it's 
one of those "Duh! Anybody smarter than a sheep already knows that!" 
constructs that anyone with some experience with the language has 
used/understands without needing more explanation.

Unfortunately, I have little-to-no experience with Python, and even less 
interest in learning it - chances are so far beyond "high" that I'll 
never write a single line of code in it that the number might as well be 
infinite, since I have zero interest in taking the time to learn a new 
language for a one-off project. I simply want a program that was 
originally (however good, bad, or in-between the original decision might 
have been) written in Python turned into a C/C++ program that I can work 
with effectively using existing skills and knowledge. Not 
knowing/understanding the function of this construct appears to be 
hindering that process, so maybe somebody here can help me out?

Thanks in advance...

-- 
Don Bruder -  dakidd at sonic.net <--- Preferred Email - unmunged, SpamAssassinated
Hate SPAM? See <http://www.spamassassin.org> for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html>



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep  2 13:41:35 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:41:35 -0400
Subject: artificial intelligence?
References: <mailman.1062333596.9491.python-list@python.org> <7ZCdnQAI0aeAo8-iU-KYuA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3F54D64F.16C2A783@engcorp.com>

Istvan Albert wrote:
> 
> Arthur wrote:
> > We've noticed that customers who have purchased books by Mark Lutz often
> > enjoy the books of Sedi 200. So you might like to know that Sedi 200's
> > newest book, Earth's Core and Lower Mantle (Fluid Mechanics of Astrophysics
> > and Geophysics, V.11),
> > """
> >
> > Any theories on how the Amazon.com AI machine got this far off track?
> 
> Discovering so called "serendipitous" items, items that cannot
> be related with classical  methods (say content or author) yet
> are very desirable to the consumer is the holy
> grail of personalization. As the example above shows it
> can go totally gaga.

Why "gaga"?  Has anyone actually purchased "Earth's Core and Lower Mantle"?

It could be an absolutely un-put-downable book!

Maybe Amazon is *right*... ;-0

-Peter



From paul at subsignal.org  Thu Sep 18 06:22:40 2003
From: paul at subsignal.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?paul_k=F6lle?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:22:40 +0200
Subject: [NEWBIE] access return values
Message-ID: <bkc0sc$rav7v$1@ID-131134.news.uni-berlin.de>

hi folks,

during the last couple of days I wrote my first small app with wxPython 
and it all works pretty well, but now I'm somewhat lost. I'd like to 
access the return value from a function inside an imported module (a 
method of a class of that module eh?)

---gui.py----

from wxPython.wx import *
from app.py import *

user=UserObject(config)  # class instance from app.py

the class UserObject has a function set_pwd() which returns a var, say 
"ch_success" indicating success/failure wich I'd like to pass to a 
Dialog to give some feedback to the user.

but:
--in gui.py----

d=wxMessageDialog(self, user.ch_success,"Info:", wxICON_INFORMATION | wxOK)

gives:

AttributeError: UserObject instance has no attribute 'ch_success'

That makes sense, since ch_success is a local variable of set_pwd(), so 
I tried to make it global but with very little success so far. I tried:

--in app.py----

	def set_pwd(someargs, moreargs)
	  do stuff //
	  ...
	  global ch_success
or:
	  return ch_success
or:
	  self.ch_success

Nothing worked (but frankly, I don't really know what I'm doing here).

Any ideas? Thanks

Paul









From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Sep  3 12:10:32 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:10:32 -0400
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD454A@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com> <mailman.1062542167.17108.python-list@python.org> <bj4dhh$24s$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <zDCdnSrLmrTkj8uiXTWJjg@comcast.com>

"Stefan Fleiter" <stefan.fleiter at web.de> wrote in message
news:bj4dhh$24s$1 at news.web.de...
> So, should I write a bugreport or not?
> Are you sure it is "rightfully ignored" or not?

At worse, a bug report such 'Slice hashing: behavior or doc bug?'
would be closed by someone in the know as 'Not a bug'.  If it is not a
behavior bug, then docs could use slight modification, and so a bug
report would be appropriate anyway.

Ref Manual 5.3.3 Slicings says nothing about hashability.  If not
hashable, in spite of being mutable, "Slices are not hashable" could
be added at end.

Ref Manual 3.3.1 Basic customization, __hash__( self) entry says
"Called for the key object for dictionary operations, and by the
built-in function hash() "

This implies to me that if there is a __hash__() method, then hash()
will call it.  If not true, then a 'maybe' could be added.

Lif Maual 2.1 Built-in Functions, hash( object) says only
"Return the hash value of the object (if it has one)."
If having __hash__() does not mean 'has one', then what does.

Feel free to copy if you do file.

Terry J. Reedy





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep  2 12:11:31 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:11:31 -0400
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zoGdnXOpJJyuXMmiU-KYvw@comcast.com>

"Mike Henley" <mnhenley at msn.com> wrote in message
news:6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78 at posting.google.com...
> So as i needed a mature enough solution, but liked the way snipsnap
> worked, i looked around, and on freshmeat i found vanilla, with a
> development status of 5; production/stable. I went to its site,
where
> a working demo impressed with its capabilities. The site is though
> poorly documented, very poorly documented i had to use trial and
error
> to work out how to install it.

If you learned something that might help others, consider contributing
a writeup if you think (or find out) that site maintainers would
consider adding it.

> What's wrong with Rebol?

It is not Python ;-)  and I don't know what unmet need it would fill
for me.  But your experience moved it up a bit on the list of
languages I might look at someday.

Terry J. Reedy





From kbilsted at hotmail.lala.com  Tue Sep  9 19:01:16 2003
From: kbilsted at hotmail.lala.com (kasper graversen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:01:16 +0200
Subject: virtual inner classes in python?
References: <opru86ohov5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F5E54DF.8ED73922@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <opru88weos5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:31:59 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

thanks for your quick reply. Yes indeed I wanted foo to be an inner class 
of Test and __init__ to be the constructor of test. Running my example, I 
wanted the inner-foo of Test2 to be instantiated rather than foo of Test.. 
this, however, was difficult for me, since I had to type "Test.Foo()" where 
I wanted to just type "Foo()" and then let python look in its local scope.

((trying your suggestion))

YAHUUU!! "Test2.foo.show" is printed on the screen just as I wanted it to! 
great! many thanks!

now, since you are confused(?) with my code posting, how should I go about 
posting python code the next time I want to do so?

-kasper


> kasper graversen wrote:
>>
>> I've just started learning python. I see methods are declared virtual by
>> default as in Java. Nice. However, the inner class construct seems to be
>> even weaker as that of Java. Not nice! :-( Why are inner classes not
>> virtual? will they be in a near future? What other language can you
>> recomend, if python cannot provide what I need?
>>
>> My problem is that in the __init__ below, I cannot instantiate "Foo" but
>> have to explicate "Test.foo".. secondly, I want to instantiate the "Foo" 
>> in
>> test2 rather than in tester in the current example..
>>
>> class Test:
>> def __init__(self):
>> lala = Test.Foo()
>> lala.show()
>> class Foo:
>> def show(self):
>> print "Test.foo.show"
>
> With the tabs that you used, the above formatting is what some of us
> saw.  It seems you meant for "class Foo" to appear at the same level
> of indentation as the "def __init__", right?
>
> As for "declared virtual by default", I don't think this is quite
> correct for Python.  All methods are always virtual in Python, unless one 
> goes to extremes to simulate some other effect, I think.
>
> Anyway, I believe the problem you are experiencing stems from a lack
> of understanding of how Python finds things in its "namespaces".  This is 
> a key concept to issues such as the one you are investigating,
> and you won't get far if you assume Python is anything like Java
> or other static languages in this respect.
>
> First, you need to specify Test.Foo because otherwise you are asking for 
> a Foo that is found in the global (module) namespace.
> You could also use "self.Foo" in this case, though it might be
> considered slightly less clear, but I have a feeling it would do roughly 
> what you want, whatever that is.  (You didn't really
> make it clear what you want, as near as I can tell.)
>
> -Peter
>



-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Sep  5 20:50:52 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:50:52 GMT
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
References: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Mba6b.64443$0u4.59526@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c at 4ax.com>, Rain wrote:

> Now I want to narrow topic and ask this question:
> Which one have a little more clear logic and easy to learn and use?
> Not considering the local platform and feeling, and the deployment.I
> know pyGTK need GTK runtime libs.

Unless running on win32 is of secondary importance, I don't think Gtk would
is a good choice until some of the Gtk/win32 bugs and other issues are
worked out.

Dave Cook




From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Sep 24 09:15:41 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:15:41 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309241605480.28659@sampo.csc.fi>
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
 <3F6DD4D7.AF309B4@hotmail.com> <bkqj0q$4vr$0@216.39.144.46>
 <7h3smmm4bkj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309241605480.28659@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309241613260.28659@sampo.csc.fi>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Michael Hudson wrote:
>
> > Paul <paul at oz.net> writes:
> >
> > > What's the best way to do this under Python 2.1?
> > > I believe socket.timeout was a 2.3 feature.
> > > Wrap it in threads?
> >
> > There's Tim O'Malley's timeoutsocket.py (google for it), which was the
> > inspiration for the feature in 2.3 (though I don't think any code from
> > there actually survived).
>
> I can't get the timeoutsocket module to work on my Redhat Linux! (The
> timeout works fine on Windows 2000.) I'm running Python 2.2.2.
>
> Here's the test code:
>
> import timeoutsocket
> timeoutsocket.setDefaultSocketTimeout(1)
> s = timeoutsocket.socket(timeoutsocket.AF_INET, timeoutsocket.SOCK_STREAM)
> s.connect(("www.google.com", 80))
> s.close()

I might add, that I conducted the test by running the above code
with and without my Ethernet cable plugged to the computer. When it was
plugged connect() worked just fine, when unplugged, the connect() call
timed out on Windows as expected but not at all on Linux.

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 10:30:36 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:30:36 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
Message-ID: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Hi,

I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For 
example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered 
incomplete?

Regards,

Nicolas




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Thu Sep 25 22:04:14 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:04:14 -0700
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <slrnbn74ch.s2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <vn77kva43nngdd@corp.supernews.com>

> Stephen Ferg wrote:
> > But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this
> > is a myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward
> > or the backward slash as a pathname separator.

Ben Finney wrote:
> I highly doubt it, since the forward slash (or just "slash") is the
> conventional Windows command-line option indicator, analogous to the
> hyphen on Unix.  To accept it as the start of a filename would break
> zillions of existing systems, for no appreciable benefit to Microsoft.

Actually, every version of Windows, and every version of MS-DOS from 2.0 on,
has accepted "/" as a path delimiter.

Don't confuse the command line with the Windows or DOS kernel. Most command
lines don't allow "/" because it conflicts with the use of "/" for a switch
deliminer. But the Windows and DOS kernels are happy with either "\" or "/".

-Mike





From jroznfgre at jngpugbjreQBGbet.cy  Mon Sep 15 09:07:00 2003
From: jroznfgre at jngpugbjreQBGbet.cy (JZ)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:07:00 +0200
Subject: caching the sql queries
References: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com> <mailman.1063625720.2467.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <s8ebmvscgm89020nu01fjt9bb7vbpffgnp@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:34:45 +0200, Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de>
wrote:

>In my opinion, this sort of caching should really be done in the 
>application layer, not in the database access layer.

Why not? It caches only db recordsets an it is total independend from
other form or cache.

-- 
JZ



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 15 20:08:01 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:08:01 -0400
Subject: irritating problem
References: <20030915150042.22749.00001062@mb-m23.aol.com>
Message-ID: <vmcl35b3rc8625@news.supernews.com>

"Park997" <park997 at aol.comnotospam> wrote in message
news:20030915150042.22749.00001062 at mb-m23.aol.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have a script that runs correctly in IDLE, runs correctly when invoked
in the
> Command Prompt (Win XP), runs correctly from Komodo, but flashes a black
box
> too fast to see when the icon is double clicked and produces no output.
There
> are no error meassages from any of the methods that produce output. All of
the
> other modules in the same directory (these are imported to the problem
module)
> work correctly in any start mode.
>
> python 2.3.
>
> Obviously this isn't a disaster, but it "bugs" me. Is there a fix or
method of
> obtaining diagnostic information on this?

When you say "all of the other modules ... work correctly in any start
mode,"
do you mean that when you double click on the icon they come up in a dos
box and the box stays around after the module exits? Or does your comment
about importing them mean that you don't attempt to run them independently?

There are *two* command prompts in Windows XP. One is the Command
Prompt you seem to be using (the one with the "c:" icon), the other is the
DOS box.
It's cleverly hidden, but it still exists.

The default action for both of them is to run the command and then exit
immediately; that's why you get the black box that flashes and then
vanishes.
If your script provides a keyboard interface, the console window will stay
around as long as you keep reading keyboard input; it will still go away
immediately when you exit from the console loop and exit the Python script.

There's no obvious way I know of to double click on a Python icon and
have the XP console window stay around after the script exits. This is
because
Python itself invokes the command line processor, and there's no
opportunity to pass it the -k (I think that's the one) parameter.

What I do in the rare cases where I want to directly invoke a Python
script and have the console window stay around is to create one
(or sometimes two) .cmd files. The first .cmd file
invokes a second copy of the XP command line with the -k parameter
(which makes it stay around) and then Python itself.

[cmdfile1.cmd example]

cmd -k python myscript.py parameters...

[end of command script]

This doesn't allow you to set environment variables. If you want to
do that, you need two .cmd files.

[cmdfile1.cmd example]
cmd -k cmdfile2.cmd
[end of cmdfile1.cmd]

[cmdfile2.cmd example]
set envvar=somethingOrOther
python myscript.py theWorldsGreatestParameter
[end of cmdfile2.cmd]

HTH

John Roth


>
> Thanks,
>
> Wendell Cropper





From indigomoon at bonbon.net  Wed Sep 24 03:00:48 2003
From: indigomoon at bonbon.net (Indigo Moon Man)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:00:48 -0600
Subject: float problem
References: <bkrai0$50pag$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1064383772.19331.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkrfkp$51l40$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>

Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com> spake thusly:
>
> You're getting bit by the difference between integer and float
> division.
>
> In versions of python prior to 2.3 (and in 2.3 under normal
> circumstances), division of two integers returns an integer and
> division of two floats (or a float and an integer )returns a float:
>
Great!  Thank you very much!


-- 
Audio Bible Online:
http://www.audio-bible.com/





From bokr at oz.net  Wed Sep  3 15:07:45 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 19:07:45 GMT
Subject: reading large file
References: <9bd0dd3f.0309030400.7fa2dc0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj5e61$pjr$0@216.39.172.122>

On 3 Sep 2003 05:00:39 -0700, g_alleon at yahoo.fr (guillaume) wrote:

>I have to read and process a large ASCII file containing a mesh : a
>list of points and triangles.
>The file is 100 MBytes.
> 
>I first tried to do it in memory but I think I am running out of
>memory therefore I decide to use the shelve
>module to store my points and elements on disks.
>Despite the fact it is slow ... Any hint ? I think I have the same
>memory problem but I don't understand why
>since  my aPoint should be removed by the gc.
>
>Have you any idea ?
>
Since your data is very homogeneous, why don't you store it in a couple of
homogeneous arrays? You could easily create a class to give you convenient
access via indices or iterators etc. Also you could write load and store
methods that could write both arrays in binary to a file. You could
consider doing this as a separate conversion from your source file, and
then run your app using the binary files and wrapper class.

Arrays are described in the array module docs ;-)
I imagine you'd want to use the 'd' type for ponts and 'l' for faces.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From iscaris at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 12 06:43:48 2003
From: iscaris at hotmail.com (Fernando)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 03:43:48 -0700
Subject: Usenet posting wiht python
Message-ID: <a26792eb.0309120243.7adb6cc6@posting.google.com>

Hi,

How can I send a usenet posting from a python app?
Thanks O:-)



From neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 07:32:29 2003
From: neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk (Neil Padgen)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:32:29 +0000
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bja8ls$k1j$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-542F88.08165705092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bji5h7$bqo$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-921F58.15265908092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <bjkdoa$3ea$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

On Monday 08 September 2003 22:28, Richard Wesley wrote:

> In article <bji5h7$bqo$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
>  Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> 

> I doubt it - it is generated by mysqldump.  And there is no problem
> from the command line.
> 

I use exactly the same approach to set up my unit tests, but I have a
different way to get the mysqldump data into the database:

os.system('mysql database_name < dumpfile')

-- Neil

-- 



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 07:43:03 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:43:03 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <vlm5h1e76u5m00@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c37535$38848030$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Terry Ready said:
> YUCK< YUCK< YUCK.
> <snip>
> The pollenation site is one of the worst I have seen.  The mockup page
> has teeny type that IE will not enlarge.
> <snip>
> I care that the site remain physically readable and that it remain a
> vehicle for information rather than childish egos.
> <snip>
> Using IE6, I need a magnifying glass
> to read this page.  This is done in the arrogant style of 'we know
> better than you what type size you should have'.  Also known as the
> 'control the user experience' school.  Awful.  For me, one of the
> worse pages I have ever seen.  Anti-Pythonic.
>
> > interior page:
> Only slightly better.  The low contrast gray-on-gray comments page is
> also barely readable.  (Others reported the same.)  For my
> less-than-perfect 50+ year-old eyes, it is physically the WORST
> comments page I have ever seen.  It is a case study in
> anti-accessibility design.  The person responsible should not touch
> our site.

Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it's a
proposal and a work in progress. As constructive comments go the only
feedback I have gathered is that the fonts are too small and the
contrast is
a little low. I've adjusted contrast on key elements and also increased
the
font size. These pages are here :

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior-2.html

also bearing in mind that the html page will be accessible and hence
allow
text resizing here is a sample of +1 text size.

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2larger.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior-2larger.html

Also, Terry, the design was an 'image', a 'mockup', a 'png' to be
specific,
it did not dictate font size. As far as accessibility is concerned, the
only
problem was the contrast and the font size both of which I've changed as
I
agree they were too low and too small respectively.

Although I agree that the font size should be bigger, the current site
is
not an exemplar of accessibility. The following example taken from the
interior page I have shown.The first is in comparison with my original
design, the second show a comparison with the amendments showing normal
and
+1 font sizing. (the text on my samples may benefit from increasing the
line
height using css)

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-text-comparison-new.gif
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-text-comparison.gif

As a side note, I haven't been to any school of 'control the user
experience'. Furthermore I think making comments such as accusing me of
having a 'childish ego' and being 'arrogant' are IMO extremely
disrespectful
and I would appreciate an apology. I am quite hurt and dissapointed to
see
such coments on what I had considered a respectable forum for discussion
although I'm sure they are not representative.

Tim Parkin

Terry:
> I otherwise do not have too much concern about particulars and
therefore
> not much to contribute.







From cjh_nospam at managesoft.com  Tue Sep  2 19:30:35 2003
From: cjh_nospam at managesoft.com (Clifford Heath)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:30:35 +1000
Subject: Aspect oriented Everything?
In-Reply-To: <biv3j9$h3c$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <32cc321c.0308221316.2f5793ac@posting.google.com> <3F52BB3C.70406@managesoft.com> <biv3j9$h3c$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <1062545436.26178@excalibur.osa.com.au>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
>>Proprietry standards for basic technologies are doomed.
> Right. However the previous long piece of text lead me to read this
> the exact opposite way of what is written above at first.

:-). I believe in tools, and on re-reading I guess you thought I was
about to start spruiking some tool, and I *am* invoking tool-makers
to rise to the challenge. OTOH - they shouldn't expect money for it,
only glory :-).

Clifford.




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 08:45:22 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:45:22 GMT
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com> <4bh3nv0esljf8pkegog0lc4lmg87siv1oc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CxWcb.172171$R32.5498673@news2.tin.it>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:

> On 23 Sep 2003 18:04:33 -0700, rumours say that mensanator at aol.com
> (mensanator) might have written:
> 
> [snipped]
>>But if I want to know how many digits 2**64 has, I can't
>>just do
> 
> If only math.log(2**64)/math.log(10) worked with longs without
> converting them into floats first... :(

I'm not sure how you'd compute log on integer numbers.  Anyway,
if you're in a hurry to know the number of digits in 2**64 -- I
see math.log(x,10) taking about 4 usec per loop, len(str(x)) about
6.3, in each case with x=2*64 and measuring with timeit.py
(elapsed time, as I'm measuring on Linux).

gmpy.numdigits(x) repeatably takes a bit less than 2 usec per loop; 
if you're interested in speedy computations with "multi-precision" 
values (integers, rationals, OR floats), you could do worse than 
looking into gmpy (plug, plug;-).

(Note: all times measured on my old Athlon -- I did choose an Ahtlon,
back about 30 months ago, exactly because I had seen benchmarks where
it outperformed Intel CPU's by a mile on multi-precision integral
computations, particularly with the GMP library...).


Alex




From harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com  Mon Sep  1 14:30:50 2003
From: harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com (Harry Pehkonen)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 11:30:50 -0700
Subject: super question
References: <hv76lv0bl83pou18b7a8k083fi6fra9din@4ax.com> <7h3k78s3dc3.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <70df36e9.0309011030.4de74e3b@posting.google.com>

Sorry -- Google is not letting me reply to the correct posting . . .

Aahz wrote:
> > but why not just do:
> >
> >    class C(B):
> >        def meth(self, arg):
> >            B.meth(self, arg)
> >
> >Is there any difference?
> >Any advantage either way?

> The advantage comes when you rename B or when you have multiple base
> classes for C.

Like this?:

class C(A, B):
    def __init__(self):
        for parent in C.__bases__:
            parent.__init__(self)

I don't think there is one definitive answer to the question of how to do this.

Harry.



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 10:51:32 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:51:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Question: Inheritance from a buil-in type
References: <3F7848C6.8070306@snafu.de>
Message-ID: <Xns9405A01F17467duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"T. Kaufmann" <merman at snafu.de> wrote in news:3F7848C6.8070306 at snafu.de:

> A simple but important question:
> 
> How can I initialize a super class (like dict) correctly in my
> subclass constructor? 
> 
> A sample:
> 
> class MyClass(dict):
>      def __init__(self):
>          dict.__init__(self)
>          ...
> 
> 
> Is there a general rule to do this for all buil-in types?

There are two rules. Generally, immutable objects get their initial values 
from the constructor (__new__) while mutable objects are constructed with a 
default value (e.g. empty list or dict) and are then set by the initialiser 
(__init__) method. A few types which you might expect to be immutable are 
actually mutable (e.g. property).

Mutable example (use for list, dict, property, etc.):

    class MyClass(dict):
        def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
            dict.__init__(self, *args, **kw)

Immutable example (use for tuple, int, etc.):

    class MyClass(tuple):
        def __new__(cls, *args, **kw):
            return tuple.__new__(cls, *args, **kw)

If there is any chance of your class being subclassed with multiple 
inheritance involved, you should consider using super instead of naming the 
baseclass directly, but most of the time you can get away with a direct 
call to the baseclass.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From dag at velvet.net  Mon Sep 29 10:53:34 2003
From: dag at velvet.net (Dag)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:53:34 GMT
Subject: Prime number module
Message-ID: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>

Is there a python module that includes functions for working with prime 
numbers?  I mainly need A function that returns the Nth prime number and 
that returns how many prime numbers are less than N, but a prime number 
tester would also be nice.  I'm dealing with numbers in the 10^6-10^8 range  
so it would have to fairly efficient

Dag



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Sep 11 13:58:53 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:58:53 -0400
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
 <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
 <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it>
 <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com>
 <L%06b.18004$hE5.637245@news1.tin.it>
 <51809ae4.0309110734.1e5d28be@posting.google.com> <87y8wvfd6d.fsf@pobox.com>
 <RXLY/kKkXU4e092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <dfLY/kKkXkid092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote previously:
|Pearson and O'Reilly owned by a single company, or something?  I have
|a vague recollection that Pearson owns some other companies...

There's been a huge amount of consolidation in publishing.  Pearson is
not the parent of Addison-Wesley, Longman, Benjamin Cumming, New Riders,
Peachpit, Cisco Press, Prentice Hall, SAMS, Que, and several more
imprints.  It's really a rather bad thing, although they do not seem to
use the degree of ideological acid-test that, say, MediaCorp
acquisitions do.

I started writing my book for AW, only to find it a Prentice book when
it was published (it still has the AW imprint, but the meaning seems
diluted).

That said, I'm pretty sure that O'Reilly remains one of the few
independent publishers of technical books.  I think Manning is also.

Yours, David...

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 17:13:35 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:13:35 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <bjg0v1$n94$2@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <003201c37584$ec5c7140$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Aahz:
> That said, there likely will be a subsection of python.org that is
> aimed at managers, with a more designed look and more graphics;
> someone trying to convince a specific manager could point zir into
> the subsection.

Fernando:
> A visible 'corporate' link, along with a single-level url
> www.python.org/corporate, perhaps even aliased to
> corporate.python.org) can satisfy the PHBs with minimal effort.

Please don't consider this, the majority of corporate users will find
the site themselves or through links in articles magazines, etc. so
they will still get first impressions from the main home page. If
anything we could provide a developer portal page which may be used
as a bookmark. Personally I think this is a bad idea also. What is
wrong with the information architecture / navigation on the page
proposal. Please could we move this discussion to one of the
appropriate lists aswell. I suggest python-marketing to begin with.

Fernando:
> That's why you really need to post a readable
> html site, not a png:  it's almost impossible for anyone but you to
> properly judge the site with graphical screenshots. It takes a long
time to create a professional html design that is cross browser to
the extent needed for this site and also as accessibile as possible.
I am unwilling to spend this amount of time just to get some feedback
on a design that might possibly be used. To give you an idea of how
much this HTML design would cost from a consultancy (which is what
pollenation is), calculate professional rates at approx thirty two
hours work (my guess, about ?1,600 or maybe $2,500). Could someone
please explain why it's impossible to judge the design of the site
without it being rendered as HTML. Perhaps the accessibility / speed
needs HTML, but not the design. Do people feel that the design would
be impossible to create as a optimal HTML entity?

Fernando:
> And since the starting thread of the discussion was a post by Tim
> himself, that seemed a perfectly fair thing to do.  It may have been
> dragged here from elsewhere, but the first 'Comments ...' post was
> by Tim, and he's been responding in the discussion actively. 
> As long as the comments were civil
Actually the first post wasn't by me and I only saw it as it was
mentioned in my blog, at which point I subscribed to comp.lang.python.

Fernando:
> A basic rule of design should always be:  a default (www.python.org)
> value should satisfy the _majority_ of usage cases (not those with
> the most money/corporate power/whatever).  Since the majority of
> visitors to the site can arguably be thought to be developers,
> _that_ is the audience the default url should target. No, a basic
> rule of design is to create something that satisfies the brief. In
this case the brief is to provide a site whose default view provides
a developer friendly page but with a heavy marketing bias. As long as
the page still satisfies the information needs of the developer then
it satsifies the brief.

David Eppstein:
>"rightly jumping all over the design"
Why are they rightly jumping all over it? Is this the purpose of
discussion? I would say people should be "right providing
constructive feedback".








From pgardell at bbn.com  Fri Sep 26 07:51:25 2003
From: pgardell at bbn.com (Paul Gardella)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:51:25 -0400
Subject: Python for CGI scripting
In-Reply-To: <B4F5FC09-EFB4-11D7-B131-00039315E356@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <005e01c38424$84376da0$ce0aa8c0@PGARDELL>

Also check out "Core Python Programming" by Wesley Chun (2001,
Prentice-Hall).  It has an approx 60-page chapter on web programming with
Python, incl CGI.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On
Behalf Of Eric Wichterich
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 8:02 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python for CGI scripting


Hello Mark,

have a look at
O'Reilly "Programming Python" by Mark Lutz, topic "Internet Scripting" (page
513ff.). It helped me a lot to get started writing scripts for internet
applications.

Good luck,
Eric


Am Freitag, 26.09.03 um 00:46 Uhr schrieb python-list-request at python.org:


  Von: "mark" <mark at diversiform.com>
  Datum: Do, 25. Sep 2003 23:58:03 Europe/Berlin
  An: <python-list at python.org>
  Betreff: Python for CGI scripting


  I am beginning to get interested in how I can use Python in place of
something like Java for Website scripting. Are there any books on this, or
any tutorials on the Web I could read? Any help is appreciated.



  - Mark
-------------- next part --------------
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From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Sep  4 12:57:45 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:57:45 +0300
Subject: How do I match this with re
References: <8f8ffe67.0309040835.368f9565@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0arelvci3jats8k8l5no6c0t8q53kgrse5@4ax.com>

On 4 Sep 2003 09:35:18 -0700, rumours say that sjoshi at ingr.com (Sunit
Joshi) might have written:

>Hello All
>I have a problem here where I need to find the drive letters in a text
>file and replace them with another letter. Now the lines can be as
>long as this
>
>6 'C:\pds\bddin64\report\mto\' 'SJOSHI'
>'D:\pds\bddin64\report\format\' 'SJOSHI'
>
>with multiple entries for path; i.e. there may be 2, as above or 1 or
>more then 2. If I use the expression .*'([A-Z]:).*?', it only matches
>the 2nd D: How do I get all the path groups ..??

I assume that the drive letters will be directly after a single quote.
You need this re:

reDriveLetter = re.compile(r"(?<=')[A-Z](?=:\\)").

You can try reDriveLetter.findall() or the reDriveLetter.finditer()
functions then, each match object will match a single capital letter.

Very important to everyone working with regular expressions: the
redemo.py script.  Search for a Scripts directory in your python
directories (it's under Tools on Windows, otherwise get it from the
source distribution), redemo.py is in there along with other useful
scripts.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 12:26:44 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:26:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unique unions of several dict keys
References: <mailman.1063641206.10374.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93F7B110454C6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote in
news:mailman.1063641206.10374.python-list at python.org: 

> I have several different dictionaries.  I want to make a unique list
> of all the keys in all the dictionaries.  What would be the best way
> of doing that?

Create a new empty dictionary then use the update method on it for each of 
other dictionaries. The keys of that dictionary are the values you want.

e.g.

>>> def UniqueKeys(*dicts):
    tmpDict = {}
    for d in dicts:
        tmpDict.update(d)
    return tmpDict.keys()

>>> print UniqueKeys({ 'a':1, 'b': 2 }, {'b': 3, 'c': 4})

['a', 'c', 'b']
>>> 

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From medved at fcc.net  Sun Sep 14 10:51:23 2003
From: medved at fcc.net (Ted Holden)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:51:23 -0400
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com> <87znh89ufv.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <7ICdnZSX7bE0H_miU-KYgw@fcc.net>

John J. Lee wrote:


> I've never seen anybody give a convincing reason why GTk is a good
>  choice for *anything* except writing GNOME apps.


I've just been putting myself through a sort of a crash course in pygtk,
basically a text indexing and retrieval application which already existed
in several Windows and KDE versions as well as a Tcl/Tk version which
nobody had used in several years.  The idea is to have some sort of a
version of the thing which integraters could work with, i.e. written mainly
in a scripting language, and python appears to be several levels of
advancement above Tcl.

Tk appears to be more functional at this point, nonetheless there was no way
to avoid having Tk code twisted and wound in and around app code in the Tcl
version of the thing whereas the glade/gtk version of the thing produces a
gui in an XML file and an absolute minimum of anything related to guis in
my own code.  The difference between the two is about 400 lines of very
readable code versus about 2500 lines of code which was marginally
readable.  I'd MUCH rather deal with pygtk, and assume anything I might
miss from Tk will be there in a year.

The LINUX community appears to have developed a sort of a magical nexus of
things including gcc, swig, python, pygtk, glade, and zope which, taken
together, amounts to a new sort of programming paradigm.  The really big
piece of magic in the picture is swig.  This says that you you can write
library code in c++ and call it from a python program with a gui produced
by glade sitting there in an XML file, and all you'd ever need to
distribute to customers would be the .so file which swig produced, one or
two .py files, and the xml file.  That also says that if a customer wasn't
totally happy with some aspect of the interface, he could screw around with
it until he was.

I don't see an easy way to beat all of that.





From lp at your-pants-coder.dk  Mon Sep  1 08:50:40 2003
From: lp at your-pants-coder.dk (Larz)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 12:50:40 GMT
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <3f530ea6$0$32489$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk> <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162> <vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93E99702FBABCgodlarz@62.243.74.162>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in news:vl6dmm8jutl140
@corp.supernews.com:

> Python already has a structure--and much content!--for 
> comparable collaboration in <URL: http://
> www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/ >.  Moreover, as several
> follow-ups have explained, Python developers have differ-
> ent work practices than PHPers, and a different relation
> to documentation.  In particular, it's hard to overempha-
> size how much working Python programmers depend on 
> interactive introspection:  use of the interpreter's
> built-in help, pydoc, and related facilities to discover
> and confirm details that, in PHPonia, are regarded as 
> matters for online documentation.

Yes, I agree that a lot of python programmers think differently. 
Even though, I sense a general consensus, especially among beginning 
Pythoneers, that the community lacks a great tool, like the one PHP has.
Of course I am not just thinking about the documentation itself, which you 
could get with pydoc/help(), but also experience, pointers, pitfalls that 
other people ran in to. That's what makes it a community ;)

Anyway, I am pretty sure we're going to fill a much needed niche, and if 
not, we're certainly going to meet our own needs ;)

-- 
larz
to mail me, remove your pants!



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 15 07:34:45 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:34:45 +0200
Subject: caching the sql queries
In-Reply-To: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com>
References: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F65A3D5.4090603@ghaering.de>

JZ wrote:
> Is there any equivalent of caching sql queries for Python like ADOdb
> for PHP? (For those who did not hear about ADODb and its feature :
> http://phplens.com/adodb/caching.of.recordsets.html)

I'm not aware of any such thing for Python, and I find it dubious, too.

In my opinion, this sort of caching should really be done in the 
application layer, not in the database access layer.

-- Gerhard




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Sep 14 22:14:44 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:14:44 -0500
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030915021439.GA30615@unpythonic.net>

For more information about Python's scoping rules, you can read parts of
the tutorial and language reference.  Here are some relevant URLs:

Tutorial
9.2 Python Scopes and Name Spaces
http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011200000000000000000

Language Reference
4.1 Naming and binding
http://www.python.org/doc/ref/naming.html

The rules are pretty simple, which probably means they're too simple to
do whatever you're trying to explain about Scheme.

You can write

    def outer():
        x = 3
        def f(arg): return arg * x
        return f(5)

to have outer() return 15,  but you can't write

    def outer():
        x = 3
        def f(arg): return arg * x
        x = 4
        return f(5)

to have outer() return 15, because 'f' will take the value of x from the
enclosing scope, and that value is 4 at the time of the call.

If you want to have f capture the value of x at that moment, you must
manually introduce another layer of nesting:

    def outer():
        x = 3
        def inner(x):
            def f(arg): return arg*x
            return f
        f = inner(x)
        x = 4
        return f(5)

or you can try to structure your code so that you can avoid re-using the
name 'x'.  One common example of a situation where you can't avoid it
is something like this:

    from Tkinter import *

    def button_func(i):
        print "pressed button", i

    def make_stupid_gui():
        t = Tk()
        for i in range(10):
            b = Button(t, text="Button #%d" % i,
                command=lambda: button_func(i))
            b.pack() 
    make_stupid_gui()

Instead, you must write

    def make_stupid_gui():
        t = Tk()
        for i in range(10):
            def make_binding(i):
                return lambda: button_func(i)
            b = Button(t, text="Button #%d" % i,
                command=make_binding(i))
            b.pack() 

A programmer who is more comfortable with objects than with lambdas
might write something like this instead

    class ButtonCallback:
        def __init__(self, i): self.i = i
        def __call__(self, i): print "pressed button", i

    def make_stupid_gui():
        t = Tk()
        for i in range(10):
            b = Button(t, text="Button #%d" % i,
                command=ButtonCallback(i))
            b.pack() 
    make_stupid_gui()

> PS: I'm a newbie, so the answer in fact might be super-easy.

Not an answer, but advice: when writing programs in Python, write Python
programs.  If it's your task to translate some Scheme (or any other
language) into Python as literally as possible, my heart goes out to you.

Jeff




From hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de  Thu Sep 18 13:50:46 2003
From: hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 10:50:46 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <bkblav$u63$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <95b4b9ac.0309180950.30b44d89@posting.google.com>

> Like it or not, there are no "different dimensions", just lists of lists 
> of lists... 

You are being too litteral. A list of list is like a 2D array from an
indexing point of view, a list of lists of lists like a 3D array etc.
E.g., (((1,10),(2,20),(3,30)),((-1,'A'),(-2,'B'),(-3,'C'))) is a  
2 x 3 x 2 rectangular data structure and has 3 dimensions. Hence,
e.g., l[0;2;1] ~ l[0][2][1] = 30

> [alist[2], alist[-3], alist[7]] and [alist[i] for i in [2, -3, 7]] 

I agree that comprehensions alleviate the problem to an extent. 
However the first notation is definitely cumbersome for all but the
shortest index lists.

> It covers the most common cases of list item extraction with a concise
> syntax.

Maybe but 
1/ it is more or less redundant: the (x)range syntax could have been 
   extended with the same effect
2/ it lacks generality since it can only generate arithmetic progressions

Hilde



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 03:51:27 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 03:51:27 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
 <bjebpo$h85$1@panix3.panix.com> <VlOdnTfgosIdRceiXTWJhg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: </NuW/kKkX81Y092yn@gnosis.cx>         

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote previously:
|To me, the the purpose of the Python site is to convey information to
|lots of different programmers.  It should therefore be physically
|readable by as many people as possible. and not just 20-30 year olds
|with 20-20 vision.

I completely agree with most posters on the demo webpage redesign.  The
fonts are horribly, unreadably small.  And the whole is cluttered, busy,
and difficult to get visually oriented to.  As others observed, the
low-contrast colors make the small fonts EVEN MORE difficult to read.

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From colarte at telesat.com.co  Sun Sep  7 08:25:14 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (colarte at telesat.com.co)
Date: Sun,  7 Sep 2003 07:25:14 -0500
Subject: in Ram database?
In-Reply-To: <v03110742bb7da1ba2767@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <v03110742bb7da1ba2767@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <1062937514.3f5b23aa6c549@ilpostino3.telesat.com.co>

try searching for : gadfly




Mensaje citado por "John D." <lists at webcrunchers.com>:

> Does anyone know if there is an "in-ram" dictionary based database
> for Python.   
> 
> I can see some applications where this can really be powerful in
> applications requiring 10,000 records or less.
> 
> Is such a database available?   If so,  who is working on it,  
> or where is it?    
> 
> I've heard that Python supports a stand-alone database.   I looked
> for it in the Docs,  and see the "dbm" module.   I haven't found
> any examples of code,  so don't know how to use them.   I'm one
> of those guys that learn through examples,  and have very little
> luck in figuring out how to use anything unless I can see examples
> of their use.
> 
> My idea is that ALL datums would be Python Dictionary objects,  so
> not only can you store data,  but python objects as well.
> 
> Storage to disk would be through pickled files,  or through CSV
> format,  allowing easy import and export from other databases.
> 
> I'm sure something like this exists,  I just haven't found it yet,
> and if not,  then I'm well on my way of implementing one myself.
> 
> I kinda like the idea of being able to define smaller tables as
> "in-memory" types,  and the really large massive ones in other forms
> managed by mySQL, PostGres, or bsddb3 databases.
> 
> Any leads you guys???
> 
> JD
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

Telesat, m?s f?cil...m?s Internet.
http://www.telesat.com.co/




From jacobsmail at gmx.net  Wed Sep 24 16:10:57 2003
From: jacobsmail at gmx.net (Jacob H)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 13:10:57 -0700
Subject: Newbie: Changing a string to a class attribute.
Message-ID: <33fbf9ec.0309241210.7acfddb9@posting.google.com>

This is a very simple problem and I'm sure the answer is a no brainer.
However my brain can't see the answer. ;)

Given code like this:

def exec_method(object, method):
    # object is an instantiated object, e.g. log
    # method is a string that matches a method of object, e.g.
"update"
    # code stuff here that calls object.method, e.g. log.update()
    
What is the best way to turn method, a string, into a valid reference
to the actual class method? My first thought was eval(). But I can't
do this:

    eval("class.method()")

Eval will look for a method actually called method() and there isn't
one. What's a good solution for this? Heck, for all I know, Python
implicitly provides functionality to solve this problem. Can anyone
help? :)

Jake



From jlh at cox.net  Sun Sep  7 09:07:18 2003
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 13:07:18 GMT
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a4G6b.147132$Ij4.43009@news2.central.cox.net>

"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list at python.org...

[...snip...]
> Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it's a
> proposal and a work in progress. As constructive comments go the only
> feedback I have gathered is that the fonts are too small and the
> contrast is
> a little low. I've adjusted contrast on key elements and also increased
> the
> font size. These pages are here :

[...snip...]
I agree that the python.org site could use a face-lift, however, my concern
with the design presented is along the lines of page size and/or browser
compatibility.  If you design via CSS using too many of the newer features
some older browsers will have problems rendering, if you don't use CSS for
that layout then you'll be using too many graphics.  You should keep in mind
the fact that Python is used internationally.  So bandwidth, browser
compatibility and internationalization are all very valid concerns.

If the redesign limits the number of people who can access it's information
or hinders their access to the same then I would be (-1) on the effort.
Remember, that the most popular and highly used sites, i.e. google and
yahoo, are quite boring in a design sense but are off the chart for
usability and accessibility.  It's the content and the accessibilty to that
content that has made them so popular.  I would vote to emulate these
attributes in any python website redesign.

- Jeff





From claird at lairds.com  Tue Sep  2 09:32:44 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:32:44 -0000
Subject: artificial intelligence
References: <mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list@python.org> <Pr05b.3585$R32.108196@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <vl96vst401lj4d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <Pr05b.3585$R32.108196 at news2.tin.it>,
Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>ways.  There's quite a substantial body of literature, by now, on the
>general issue of frequent fallacies on reasoning about probabilities.
			.
			.
			.
Computing-related references on this general issue appear in <URL:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-sc16.html >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Thu Sep 11 12:14:26 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 09:14:26 -0700
Subject: PyQt: Can't show PY variable in QT filedialog as initially parameter
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309110814.7d759662@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I use PyQt 3.8 non-commercial version in win32. I get a big question.
I Can't show PY variable in QT filedialog as initially parameter.

Code sample is following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fileName="test.avi"

def saveSomething(aString):
    dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(aString, "*.*", self, "FileDialog")
or 
    dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(QString(aString), "*.*",
                                        self, "FileDialog")
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
these code can't show corrent string.

If I use string constant.
   dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName("test.avi", "*.*", self, "FileDialog")

Dialog show it correctly.

Thanks.

Ulysses



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 11:35:35 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:35:35 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> In article <vlh7otscuo8gb1 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
>
> > Technically, it would be possible to make "self" a reserved
> > word, and not have to put it in the method declaration.
> > However, there are a lot of people who use something other than
> > the word "self," so that would break existing code.
>
> It would also make the language more complex and irregular.

How?

John Roth

>
> -- 
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Could I have a
drug
>                                   at               overdose?
>                                visi.com





From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Sep 10 17:53:17 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 23:53:17 +0200
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F8742.C1C66903@engcorp.com> <3F5F95B9.A8CB5786@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F2F3055FC65cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote in news:3F5F95B9.A8CB5786 at easystreet.com:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Queue.Queue.get() ...
>> 
> 
> That looks good.  But that needs a thread to block, right? 

yes

> A generator manages to run without being a thread (at least
> overtly).  If we have the suck() statement, we also need 
> something that's the opposite of a generator (a Sucker?)
> and something that's the opposite of an iterator (a Suckee?). 
> I'm starting to get an idea why this is completely not all
> there. 

basicaly you poll every generator (or more precicly "iterable" as that is 
what a generator returns), one after the other... enjoy the link below.
 
> The main question this raises is "How lightweight are threads?"
> Can I program with dozens or hundreds of python threads in a
> program (for example under Windows) and not notice that this is
> an inefficient or inept coding style?

this one is for you :-)
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pythrd.html

you wont get happy with hundrets of native threads, but with the light ones 
from above you can have thousands...

generaly you will find interesting stuff here (one line):
http://www-
106.ibm.com/developerworks/views/linux/articles.jsp?sort_order=desc&expand=
&sort_by=Date&show_abstract=true&view_by=Search&search_by=charming+python%3
A

chris
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From opo at opo.com  Thu Sep 11 09:58:52 2003
From: opo at opo.com (franck)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:58:52 +0200
Subject: GET and POST
Message-ID: <xc%7b.1420$95.169@newsr2.u-net.net>

HI,

this is my code
params = {}

params['fuseaction'] = '*****';
params['user'] = '***';
params['password'] = '**********';
params['num_card'] = '******';
params['date_of_birth'] = '****';

params = urllib.urlencode(params)
f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com",params)
print f.read()

my contact tell me i must do a GET or fuseaction and POST for other param.

i dont know how to do this and if its possible.
someone tell me its ok to do that, but how in python?

i dont unsderstand the different between GET and POST but i know how to code
it separately.

thx in advance.






From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep 29 14:40:47 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:40:47 GMT
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <crtgnvgmvep2e8cr1rd6jdlpolmpcvg6sl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h365jb1lzo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:31:05 -0500, "Edward K. Ream"
> <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:
> 
> >Any ideas for a clean solution?  Thanks.
> 
> I am not sure that I understand what you are saying, but I'll make a
> quick suggestion...
> 
> Perhaps 'app' can be a global variable within 'leoGlobals', but
> assigned the value 'None' when the module is imported. Your
> initialisation code can then reassign the variable at the appropriate
> time.

This wont work.

--- a.py --- 
a = None
--- b.py ---
import a
a.a = 1
--- c.py ---
from a import a
import b
print a

running c.py will print "None".  Names, objects and bindings, remember
:-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Or if you happen to be resigned to the size of your trouser
  snake and would rather not be reminded of it, training a shared
  classifier to reject penis-enlargement spam stops Barry from
  getting the help he so desperately needs.  -- Tim Peters, c.l.python



From list-python at ccraig.org  Fri Sep 12 08:46:54 2003
From: list-python at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 08:46:54 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <3F615217.8060106@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <t1wd6e6rx6p.fsf@kermit.wreck.org>

Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> writes:

> After sleeping over night, I think that I got it. :-) The simple solution is,
> that each thread created in Python gets its own independent interpreter state
> as well. And there could be a separate thread-global interpreter state for
> shared memory access. Access to this global state would always be
> synchronized. There could even be multiple named global states, so that the
> thread interlocking could be minimized. The python syntax for creating objects
> in this global state should be invented:
> 
> 
> synchronize a = "abcd"
> 
> Also when creating the new thread, it's arguments would be copied from the
> creating state to the new state.
> 
> 
> What does it sound? Of course it would be incompatible with the current
> threading system in Python, but it would be totally multithreading, no global
> interpreter lock needed. It would be faster than current Python, there would
> be no need to free or acquire the lock when calling OS functions, and no need
> to check how many byte codes have been processed, etc.
> 

Couldn't you do this now with multiple processes and the shm module?

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <list-python at ccraig.org>
"I affirm brethren by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus
our Lord, I die daily" I Cor 15:31 (NASB)





From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Mon Sep 29 16:43:36 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 13:43:36 -0700
Subject: Python parser that records source ranges
References: <qRKdb.456249$Oz4.260848@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0309291243.6fb1196f@posting.google.com>

Jonathan Edwards <edwards at nospam.lcs.mit.edu> wrote in message news:<qRKdb.456249$Oz4.260848 at rwcrnsc54>...
> The parser library module only records source line numbers for tokens. I 
> need a parser that records ranges of line and character locations for 
> each AST node, so I can map back to the source. Does anyone know of such 
> a thing? Thanks
> 
> Jonathan

You know there's not going to be a one-to-one relationship, right? 
Most ast nodes are symbols and aren't going to match to any tokens. 
Python asts also use a lot of intermediate nodes to enforce operator
precidence.

Anyway, I have some rather specialized code in PyXR that syncs tokens
to an ast.  You probably won't be able to use it out of the box but it
should give you a good start:

http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/PyXR/

The source file of particular interest to you would be astToHtml.py:

http://tinyurl.com/p3cn



From r.erens at eurosys.nl  Mon Sep 29 11:34:20 2003
From: r.erens at eurosys.nl (Roger Erens)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:34:20 +0200
Subject: warnings during installation of python2.3.1 on SCO_SV 3.2v5.0.5
Message-ID: <6D9E338D57C2D411AC5800105AF41E12FE7ABF@MAILNT>

Dear list,

I'm trying to install python2.3.1 on an SCO-box.
After running ./configure --prefix=/usrdir/rogere
the output of make shows (among others:)

running build
running build_ext
building 'struct' extension
creating build
creating build/temp.sco_sv-3.2-i386-2.3
cc -DNDEBUG -O -Kpic -belf -belf -Ki486 -DSCO5 -I.
-I/usrdir/rogere/Python-2.3.1/./Include -I/usrdir/rogere/include
-I/usrdir/rogere/Python-2.3.1/Include -I/usrdir/rogere/Python-2.3.1 -c
/usrdir/rogere/Python-2.3.1/Modules/structmodule.c -o
build/temp.sco_sv-3.2-i386-2.3/structmodule.o
creating build/lib.sco_sv-3.2-i386-2.3
cc -Wl,-G,-Bexport build/temp.sco_sv-3.2-i386-2.3/structmodule.o
-L/usrdir/rogere/lib -L/usr/local/lib -o
build/lib.sco_sv-3.2-i386-2.3/struct.so
*** WARNING: importing extension "struct" failed with
exceptions.AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'load_dynamic'

I also get lots of these warnings for other extensions, like 'regex',
'pcre', '_hotshot', etc, etc.
In the end I can start up the Python interpreter; however, importing one of
the above extensions fails:

>python
Python 2.3.1 (#2, Sep 29 2003, 16:43:28) [C] on sco_sv3
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import regex
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named regex

Does anyone have a clue about how I should resolve these warnings?
I'd be glad to send any extra needed information if required.

Best regards and thanks in advance,
Roger Erens

> uname -X

System = SCO_SV
Node = ontwik2
Release = 3.2v5.0.5
KernelID = 98/07/02
Machine = i80386
BusType = ISA
Serial = 5FL004745
Users = 30-user
OEM# = 0
Origin# = 1
NumCPU = 2

>ld -V
 SCO UNIX Development System  Release 5.1.1A 27Jul98
395 /usrdir/rogere/Python-2.3.1
>cc -V
SCO UNIX Development System  Release 5.1.1A 27Jul98




From garyr at fidalgo.net  Sun Sep 21 10:52:02 2003
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Gary Richardson)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 07:52:02 -0700
Subject: Tkinter cursor question
References: <vmq6a09ffl4c4@corp.supernews.com> <bkjrmp$o7t$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vmrer01p6r726f@corp.supernews.com>

[snip]
>
> @sourceName
>     This form only works on Windows, and will load a Windows system cursor
> (.ani or .cur) from the file specified in sourceName.
>
> Kindly
> MichaelP
>
Michael,

Thanks for your reply. I am using Windows so I guess I'm out of luck as far
as designing my own cursor. I tried the form that is supposed to work with
windows but no luck with that either. The code below produces the error
message:  TclError: bad cursor spec "@CROSS_M.CUR". I also tried using the
full pathname ("@C:\windows\cursors\cross_m.cur" and
"@c:\\windows\\cursors\\CROSS_M.CUR") but the result was the same. Any
further advice?

Thanks,
Gary Richardson
-------------
from Tkinter import *
root=Tk()
Text(root,bg="white",cursor="@CROSS_M.CUR").pack()
root.mainloop()










From pweldon at mindspring.com  Sun Sep 21 08:26:27 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:26:27 GMT
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <TNgbb.48677$Aq2.3643@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Inboxer for Outlook is a plugin written with Python that will analyze
collections of what you consider legitimate e-mail and and what you consider
illegitimate e-mail.  I downloaded it and ran it against a collection of
1500 messages generated by the Worm.Automat.AHB and 265 the latest
legitimate e-mails I've received.  After the analysis, Inboxer has detected
about 250 Worm.Automat.AHB generated messages with no false negatives and no
false positives (granted there were only three new legitimate e-mails.

Phil Weldon

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946 at news2.tin.it...
> All my mailboxes have been filling up with files of about 130k to 150k, no
> doubt copies of some immensely popular virus.  So, I've no doubt lost lots
> of real mail because of "mailbox full" conditions (the proliferating fake
> bounce messages more or less ensure nobody knows their mail to me has
> bounced, either).
>
> As an emergency response I and Anna developed, over the last half hour, a
> small Python script to be run from cron every few minutes and
automatically
> scrub any POP3 mailbox from files in the target size range.  I'm saving
them
> to a local file for potential later perusal, but that's obviously easy to
> comment out if needed.  Here's the tiny script in question...:
>
> import poplib
> import time
>
> print 'Start at', time.asctime()
>
> host = 'pop.mail.yahoo.com'
> port = 110
> user = 'aleaxit'
> pasw = 'secret'
>
> logfilename = 'bigjunk'
> minsize = 130000
> maxsize = 180000
> fromtag = 'From aleaxit at yahoo.com  %s\n'
>
> ps = poplib.POP3(host, port)
> ps.user(user)
> ps.pass_(pasw)
>
> messages = ps.list()
> print '%d messages, %d bytes' % (len(messages[1]), messages[-1])
>
> logfile = open(logfilename, 'a')
>
> for sms in messages[1]:
>     sid, ssize = sms.split()
>     if minsize <= int(ssize) < maxsize:
>         message = ps.retr(sid)
>         print 'retrieving and deleting msg#%s, %d bytes, %d lines' % (
>             sid, message[-1], len(message[1]))
>         logfile.write(fromtag % time.asctime())
>         for line in message[1]:
>             logfile.write(line)
>             logfile.write("\n")
>         logfile.write('\n')
>         ps.dele(sid)
>
> ps.quit()
>
> print 'Done at', time.asctime()
> print
>
>
> Hope it can come in useful to somebody...!!!
>
> Alex & Anna
>





From nowan.noware at nohowe.net  Mon Sep  8 14:40:09 2003
From: nowan.noware at nohowe.net (Nowan)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:40:09 GMT
Subject: spyce hangs on 'file not found'
References: <3F5804CE.3050109@nohowe.net>
Message-ID: <3F5CCBFF.2050306@nohowe.net>

> Works fine, except when I attempt to read a nonexistent file.  In other 
> words, I go after /template/stuff.html but stuff.html doesn't exist.
> 
> Ordinary CGIs work correctly, meaning Apache correctly handles a 'file 
> not found'
> 
> Spyce works differently.  The browser hangs.  My CPU utilization goes to 
> 100% and I get a runaway python process I can't kill, even as 
> administrator.
> 
> Any suggestions?  A python bug or a spyce bug?  Reading the source for 
> either is way beyond my level now?  Known problem? Workaround?
> 
> Anyone know how I can kill the runaway python process?
> 
--------------------------------------
Still looking at this. I see from the spyce doc that spyce has special 
error codes spyceNotFound, spyceError and spyceForbidden, which 
obviously correspond to the Apache NotFound, SystemError and Forbidden 
error codes, (404, 500, etc).

Perhaps I need to configure something to trap spyceNotFound, so that it 
doesn't go into an hung state?

Does anybody use Spyce?






From cagi at cs.tu-berlin.de  Tue Sep  9 10:40:28 2003
From: cagi at cs.tu-berlin.de (Carsten Gips)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:40:28 +0200
Subject: Jython: jythonc and cPickle
Message-ID: <20030909164028.1bd961d5.cagi@cs.tu-berlin.de>

Hi,


I have a jython script, which should load a pickled object:

  file = "blabla"
  infile = open(file, 'rb')
  o = cPickle.load(infile)


When I put this code in a file and execute it using jython, 
everything works well. However, when I freeze the code using
jythonc (using: jythonc -a -j bla.jar bla.py) and start
the program using java (java -jar bla.jar), then the 
cPickle.load throws an exception and cannot load the object. 

Does anybody know a solution to this problem? I have to use
the freezed version ....



Thanks
Carsten



-- 
wehr ainen rechtschreipfaehler fintet, dahrf ien behallten



From simonb at webone.com.au  Tue Sep 16 20:26:06 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:26:06 +1000
Subject: Extending the python language
References: <5696a130.0309161449.5944f7fa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.17.00.26.06.408280@webone.com.au>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:49:21 -0700, John D wrote:

> I'm writing a class definition in python with some array atributes
> from Numeric 2.0. I'm using UserArray, UserList, to subclass my
> classes. But some of the methods I need to write in C mainly because
> of computing speed. I need to pass to those C functions array and
> lists objects that the C functions can access their contained values
> like arrays and lists.

PyRex is good at this. Have a look at the cgkit for an example.

Simon Burton.





From xtian at toysinabag.com  Mon Sep 22 17:47:51 2003
From: xtian at toysinabag.com (xtian)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 14:47:51 -0700
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <3F6F3E38.5221D7E7@engcorp.com> <eppstein-89A196.11515122092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <d111eafa.0309221347.774d519a@posting.google.com>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message news:<eppstein-89A196.11515122092003 at news.service.uci.edu>...
> In article <3F6F3E38.5221D7E7 at engcorp.com>,
>  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> > > For example, which one of the following would be more efficient, or ,
> > > moreover, more pythonic?
> > > 
> > > if aa[:3] == 'abc':
> > > 
> > > vs
> > > 
> > > if aa.startswith('abc'):
> > 
> > The latter is clearly more readable.
> 
> More Pythonic, too, I think.  "Readability counts," and "There should be 
> one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."  In this case, 
> startswith must be the one obvious way, or else why would it exist in 
> the standard library at all?

It's also much more maintainable - if in the future that 'abc' needs
to change to 'abcdef', the slicing version requires changes in two
places (just asking for bugs), while startswith requires only one. Of
course, all these things (readability, maintainability and
pythonicism) are fairly closely interrelated.

xtian



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Sep 11 13:29:26 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:29:26 -0300
Subject: Import question
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F10@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Any ideas????

I always try to put all the site-specific modules in the directory
Python23/lib/site-packages.

Bonus: Python searchs in that place automatically.

.	Facundo




From davecook at nowhere.net  Wed Sep 10 02:31:19 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:31:19 GMT
Subject: pygtk clist usage
References: <vFqdnf3p0PyDIcOiXTWJhw@fcc.net>
Message-ID: <Xyz7b.8398$NW3.3367@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <vFqdnf3p0PyDIcOiXTWJhw at fcc.net>, Ted Holden wrote:
 
> If anybody has any sort of a clue as to how to use a clist generated by
> glade as a list, the 'GtkList' changed to 'GtkClist' by hand, and add input
> strings using 'append' and end up seeing more than just the first character
> of each line, I'd appreciate hearing from them.

Sounds like you are appending a string instead of a list of strings.

BTW, CList is deprecated (meaning it will go away in the next major gtk
release).  ListStore/TreeView can be a bit hard to make the transition to,
though, as the documentation is rather scattered and fragmentary.  Best
sources of info are

* The examples in the pygtk-demo directory.
* The FAQ: http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=all
* The manual: http://www.moeraki.com/pygtkreference/pygtk2reference/

Dave Cook

                 ____)/                     \(____
        _,--''''',-'/(                       )\`-.`````--._                 
     ,-'       ,'  |  \       _     _       /  |  `-.      `-.             
   ,'         /    |   `._   /\\   //\   _,'   |     \        `.
  |          |      `.    `-( ,\\_//  )-'    .'       |         |
 |/'        \'        `\(      \(_)/      )/'        `/        `\|
 `                      `       V V       '                      '


Splifford the bat says:  Always remember

Don't waste time learning deprecated APIs.



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Sep  4 18:46:09 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 23:46:09 +0100
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
Message-ID: <bj8f4v$8kl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Martin Christensen" <knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk> wrote in message
news:87y8x4w6ym.fsf at gvdnet.dk...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Howdy!
>
> Suppose I have a list A containing elements that I want to put into
> list B if they satisfy some property. The obvious way of doing it
> would be,
>
> B = []
> for i in A:
>     if A.property():
>        B.append(i)
>
> Now, list comprehensions, map() etc. can make a lot of list operations
> easier, but I haven't found a shorter, more elegant way of doing this.
> Have I missed something, or will I have to stick to my explicit loops?
>
> Martin
>

Is this the sort of thing you mean?

>>> A = [0, 1, 2, 'four', 'five', 6.0]
>>> [x for x in A if isinstance(x, str)]
['four', 'five']
>>>

Duncan





From BrenBarn at aol.com  Sun Sep  7 23:36:38 2003
From: BrenBarn at aol.com (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: 8 Sep 2003 03:36:38 GMT
Subject: exec code with timeout?
Message-ID: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4>

    	I am fiddling around with a Python-based MUD which allows users to 
code MUD objects in Python.  This code is executed from within the 
server code with "exec".  However, sometimes errors in user code can 
result in infinite loops, which cause the MUD to hang.  I am wondering 
if there is a way to put a timeout on the exec, so that it returns 
control to the main program if the user code doesn't return within a 
certain amount of time.

    	I am not concerned with security per se here -- in general I can 
assume that any users who are using the MUD are trusted and will not 
write malicious code.  I am chiefly aiming to catch simple, 
unintentional programming errors. For instance, I don't want the MUD 
to hang just because someone innocently forgot to include a break 
inside a "while 1:" block.  All I need is a very crude form of control 
-- a simple timeout would do.

    	I have looked at the thread modules, hoping that I could exec the 
user code in a separate thread, sleep in the main thread, and then at 
the end of the time limit terminate the user code thread.  However, 
there doesn't seem to be any way to terminate a subthread from within 
the main thread.  Am I entirely out of luck here, or is there some 
module than can do what I want?  (I am working primarily on Windows at 
this point, but I would like a solution that works on as many 
platforms as as possible.)

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown



From dave at 3dex.com  Thu Sep 11 19:34:22 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:34:22 GMT
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
References: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2E78b.1002$8g2.829@news1.central.cox.net>

"Randy" <randito at randito.com> wrote in message
news:7712111.0309111357.3be3b591 at posting.google.com...
> Does anyone have any interest in a project like this?  It would be
> port for the most part; the AMF format is already well known.  In
> addition, there is a lot of similarities between ActionScript objects
> and native Python objects; porting between the two data types would
> not be difficult.

I think it would be fantastic to have support for this in Python. In fact,
the only thing that's even made me consider using PHP lately is the AMFPHP
library. But be careful! Last time I checked, AMFPHP was not endorsed or
supported by Macromedia. This means a) it might not be legal, especially
with the DMCA and other such intrusions, b) Macromedia could change their
protocol anytime they want, causing everyone to have to reverse-engineer the
changes.

Another way to set up an RPC interface between Flash and Python would be to
use plain old HTTP GET/POST, with either urlencoded key-value pairs or WDDX
as a serialization format. (PyXML supports WDDX, as does PHP, as does Flash
if you Google around for the wddx.as script).

Cheers,
Dave

PS. Still a good idea for a project, though. =)





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Sep 26 14:14:12 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 14:14:12 -0400
Subject: PyCon Announcement: Mitch Kapor is opening keynote speaker
References: <mailman.1064535938.29114.python-list@python.org> <du765jf7bsh.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <bl1vlk$fo1$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <du765jf7bsh.fsf at amadeus.cc.tut.fi>,
Ville Vainio  <ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi> wrote:
>PyCon Chair <pycon at python.org> writes:
>>
>> and as a co-founder and the first chairman of the San Francisco-based
>> Electronic Freedom Foundation, and has been an active entrepreneur in
>
>It's Electronic *Frontier* Foundation, I think.

Oops.  It was spelled correctly in my version, but got changed when
someone else edited it.  Oh, well.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 18 12:38:05 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:38:05 -0400
Subject: win32comm
References: <mailman.1063896746.31017.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F69DF6D.5588E4E9@engcorp.com>

> Alberto Vera wrote:
> 
> Hello:
> 
> Could you tell me How I can solve this problem?
> 
> Regards
> 
>     import win32com.client
> ImportError: No module named win32com.clieny

Cut and paste the entire error message rather than retyping 
it, to avoid mistakes such as the above.

Assuming that your error message doesn't say what you say
it says, but rather a message about "win32com.client", then
the next question is have you installed the win32all package?

This is not included with Python, but must be downloaded 
separately unless you are using the ActiveState package.

Go to the Python download page and follow the links to get the
package, then run the installer.  Afterwards the above code
should work fine if you've done everything correctly.

-Peter



From knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk  Fri Sep  5 02:06:23 2003
From: knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk (Martin Christensen)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 08:06:23 +0200
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <2xR5b.354503$YN5.241285@sccrnsc01>
Message-ID: <87fzjbu5uo.fsf@gvdnet.dk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "David" == David C Fox <davidcfox at post.harvard.edu> writes:
David> B = filter(lambda x: x.property(), A)

Now, if I'd paid better attention to the library documentation... :-)

Martin

- -- 
Homepage:       http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using Mailcrypt+GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org>

iEYEARECAAYFAj9YJ98ACgkQYu1fMmOQldVcoACg4UwLuvBfdx1aZV0qXJgomgQ4
5OkAnAgsf4fdEY0j9ekDPOrWytpKPqhJ
=NcyH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From adam at gliwice.pl  Fri Sep  5 13:14:28 2003
From: adam at gliwice.pl (Adam Przybyla)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:14:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: reading large file
References: <9bd0dd3f.0309030400.7fa2dc0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjag9k$fpr$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

guillaume <g_alleon at yahoo.fr> wrote:
> I have to read and process a large ASCII file containing a mesh : a
> list of points and triangles.
> The file is 100 MBytes.
> 
> I first tried to do it in memory but I think I am running out of
> memory therefore I decide to use the shelve
> module to store my points and elements on disks.
> Despite the fact it is slow ... Any hint ? I think I have the same
> memory problem but I don't understand why
> since  my aPoint should be removed by the gc.

> Have you any idea ?
	... try PyTables;-) Regards
								Adam Przybyla



From br_y at yahoo.de  Fri Sep  5 04:26:00 2003
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:26:00 +0200
Subject: compiling python
Message-ID: <bj9hbg$8j5$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hallo newsgroup,
because so many people helped me, I hope for help onesmore.
If I compile a python py file to a pyc file, will there the paths of the
included files (or other paths) hardly be written to the pyc file and why.
(Does not find this import file without this path anymore?)
Which sense is behind there?
TIA,Birgit







From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep  9 15:18:26 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:18:26 -0700
Subject: Jython class names
References: <mailman.1063110073.29738.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F5E2782.6382BDC5@alcyone.com>

Michael Chermside wrote:

> Simple rule. ALWAYS use "==" for comparing strings, NEVER use "is".
> The
> only exception is if you are working on the internals of the string
> class, or perhaps writing some subclass of string with wierd behavior.
> The behavior of "is" is undefined for all immutable built-in types --
> not "undefined behavior" in the sense of the C standard (computer may
> grow legs and wander out of the room if you do this), but "undefined"
> in the sense that comparing two integers or two strings with "is" MAY
> return True, or it may return False, and no promises are made as to
> which way it will go.

The usual Standard terminology for this is "unspecified"; as you point
out, "undefined" means nasal demons.  There's also a third possibility,
"implementation defined," which is the same as unspecified except the
implementation must document its choice of behaviors.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 19 12:11:29 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:11:29 -0400
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com> <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> > Alan Kennedy wrote:
> > >
> > > Peter Hansen wrote:
> > > > Key phrase: "Metaobject protocols are interfaces to the language
> > > > that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> > > > behavior and implementation...".  Near as I can tell, part of the
> > > > whole character of Python is that a user *cannot* do either of
> > > > those things.
> > >
> > > Hmm, does this rephrasing hold any truth?
> > >
> > > "Metaclasses are interfaces to the python language
> > > that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> > > behavior and implementation...".
> > >
> > > Isn't modifying standard behaviour the whole purpose of metaclasses?
> >
> > But it doesn't really modify the *language's* behaviour in the way
> > implied by a simplistic reading of the above phrase.  That is, the
> > "obvious" interpretation is that syntax and grammar are being affected,
> > not just the behaviour of one small slice of the language, specifically
> > how classes behave.  In some languages the two things are not so
> > separate, but in Python they seem to be.
> 
> Huh?  Common Lisp's MOP doesn't change the language on that level,
> either.  

No problem... I was deliberately taking a simplistic reading of the above, 
in an attempt to elicit discussion that would clarify whether it was an 
adequate description.  Sounds like it's not.

> Of course, there's a sense in which Common Lisp just doesn't have much
> syntax, but Python's hardly overloaded with it, either.  *The objects*
> or to be more precise the *types* of objects themselves are what
> determine really happens, and that's precisely the sort of thing
> metaclasses let you play with.

I guess this might get down to the question of whether Python is more about
the syntax, grammar, keywords, and such, of the language or more about the 
standard types of objects which are provided with it.  In my mind, it's 
very much the former and very little the latter, but maybe that's just me.
Dicts and lists and integers are interesting and all, but I'm not sure 
it's their behaviour which makes Python Python.

-Peter



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Sep 24 21:09:25 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:09:25 -0400
Subject: Python Glossary
References: <mailman.1064423796.7240.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FBkc/kKkXELA092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

|Thanks to people who submitted content for the Python Glossary:
|    http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary

This glossary is quite nice to have.  FWIW, my book also has a glossary,
which may have some terms that would be useful also for the Python
Glossary.  Somehow it feels immodest to me to copy them over myself (an
emotion I'm only occassionally struck by :-)); however, all permission
is given for anyone else to do so, as they think is useful.

The terms I define tend to be a bit less Python specific (despite being
in a Python book)--and I confess it is a little bit of an oddball
collection.  Still, take a look at:

    http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/glossary.txt

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Sep  4 15:32:47 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:32:47 -0400
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bj820r$8up$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vlf4qqqqb3s11b@news.supernews.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in message
news:bj820r$8up$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
>
> "Stephan Diehl" <stephan.diehl at gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:bj7ots$48j$06$1 at news.t-online.com...
> > Once in a while, I get bitten by the fact, that mutating list methods
such
> > as 'append' or 'extend' return None instead of the (mutated) list
itself.
> > Is there a compelling reason for that? I googled around, but didn't find
> > anything about this.
>
> There is a very old religious law saying: Thou shalt not cause side
effects
> by a function.
> There is some wisdom in it but it is easily forgotten with languages which
> do not differ between functions and routines.

Like most "religious laws," it's a rule that has a multitude of exceptions.
You can't do I/O without having side effects, something that the designers
of functional languages have learned, sometimes the hard way.

As far as I'm concerned, this is one of those things that Ruby did
right. By convention, methods that modify the object as a side effect
have names that end with an "!" (exclamation point.) Ruby usually supplies
two methods in such cases, one that modifies the object, and one that
creates a copy and then modifies the copy. Both methods return the
modified or new object.

It obeys the Principle of Least Surprise because if you forget the
"!", you get the slow version that does a copy and leaves the original
intact.

Nice as the solution is, it's impossible to import it into Python
cleanly without introducing catastrophic backward incomaptibilities.

John Roth
>
> Kindly
> Michael P
>
>





From syver at inout.no  Thu Sep 18 07:32:43 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:32:43 +0200
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u7k46s55w.fsf@inout.no>

kbilsted at it-c.dk (Kasper B. Graversen) writes:

> Having played with Smalltalk for the past month, I'm getting used to
> passing code as arguments to methods... how easy is it to do this in
> python? I haven't seen any recent postings on this subject here...

It is fairly straightforward:

import sys

def funcThatTakesCallable(aCallable):
    aCallable('SomeString')

class MyClass:
    def myFunc():
        def myCallable(arg):
            print arg
        funcThatTakesCallable(myCallable)
        funcThatTakesCallable(self.anotherCallable)
        funcThatTakesCallable(lambda arg: sys.stdout.write('%s\n' % arg))

    def anotherCallable(self, arg):
        print 'another', arg


The major difference is that the anonymous form of a function (lambda)
isn't allowed to contain statements, only an expression. This is
rather crippling for Smalltalk/Ruby style coding and seems to lead to
warts like list comprehensions instead of having simple methods in the
collection interface that takes a block/lambda and calls this for each
element of the collection.

Example:

newCollection = [each for each in collection if each != 'Sausage']

newCollection = collection.select(lambda each: each != 'Sausage')





From uj797 at victoria.tc.ca  Fri Sep 12 13:52:30 2003
From: uj797 at victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 09:52:30 -0800
Subject: Standards in Artificial Intelligence
References: <bjnqsa$snd$1@news.astound.net>
Message-ID: <3f61f9ce@news.victoria.tc.ca>

"David B. Held" wrote on Wed, 10 Sep 2003:
> "Arthur T. Murray" <uj797 at victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
> news:3f5f5dc3 at news.victoria.tc.ca...
>> A webpage of proposed Standards in Artificial Intelligence
>> is at http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/standard.html --
>> updated today.

> [...] In one section, you define a core set of concepts (like
> 'true', 'false', etc.), and give them numerical indexes.

http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/variable.html#nen -- yes.

> Then you invite programmers to add to this core by using
> indexes above a suitable threshold, as if we were defining
> ports on a server. [...]

http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/newcept.html#analysis explains
that Newconcept calls the English vocabulary (enVocab) module
to form an English lexical node for any new word detected 
by the Audition module in the stream of user input.

> [...] At one point, you address programmers who might
> have access to a 64-bit architecture.  Pardon me, but
> given things like the "Hard Problem of Consciousness",
> the size of some programmer's hardware is completely
> irrelevant. [...]

http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/standard.html#hardware (q.v.)
explains that not "the size of some programmer's hardware" counts
but rather the amount of memory available to the artificial Mind.

The Mentifex AI Mind project is extremely serious and ambitious.
Free-lance coders are morking on it in C++ and other languages:

http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/cpp.html -- C++ with starter code;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/java.html -- see Mind.JAVA 1 and 2;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/lisp.html -- Lisp AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/perl.html -- first Perl module;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/prolog.html -- Prolog AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/python.html -- Python AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/ruby.html -- Ruby AI Blog (OO AI);
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/scheme.html -- Scheme AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/vb.html -- see "Mind.VB #001" link.

AI Mind project news pervades the blogosphere, e.g. at
http://www.alpha-geek.com/2003/09/11/perl_ai.html -- etc.

The Mentifex Seed AI engenders a new species of mind at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mindjava -- Mind2.Java --
and at other sites popping up _passim_ on the Web.

AI has been solved in theory and in primitive, free AI source code.
Please watch each new species of AI Mind germinate and proliferate.

A.T. Murray
-- 
http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26 - Mind-eXchange;
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595654371/ -- AI Textbook;
http://www.sl4.org/archive/0205/3829.html -- review by Dr. Ben G.
http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/307824.307853 -- ACM SIGPLAN Notices.



From llafba at gmx.net  Mon Sep 15 09:59:56 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:59:56 +0200
Subject: list of lists
Message-ID: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi,

I have a list that consists of lists.
E.g. T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
Is there a way to address the a specific component in the "inner" list 
directly?
E.g. right now I want to get the second value of the first list. 
Unfortunately I have to save it to a variable first and then read it.
a = T[0]
print a[1]

That kind of sucks, becaus I have to read a lot of values from a lot of 
lists! :-(
Is there a faster way than my saving it to a "help variable" first?

Thanks folks!!

Regards, Tom




From john at rygannon.com  Wed Sep 10 14:19:16 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:19:16 GMT
Subject: Problems with setting up mod_python and Apache
Message-ID: <3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi
I have set up httpd.conf according to installation and configuration
instructions in the mod_python documentation. Yet when I enter the following
URL http://localhost/test.py all I get is an Apache view of my htdocs
directory. They if I click on test.py and open file dialog pops up. If I
give the file a cgi extension and enter the following URL
http://locathost/test.cgi it runs fine.  I just can't figure out what I am
doing wrong.

-- 
Best Regards
John



From uce at ftc.gov  Tue Sep 30 20:25:06 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:25:06 -0400
Subject: How do you use " " whe sending a command
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064965743.15057.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064965743.15057.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WVidnVbnPqpAg-eiU-KYvg@comcast.com>

So close:

\"
or \' in a '' string.




From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep 23 14:09:41 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:09:41 +0200
Subject: Mailbox cleaner on an IMAP basis?
References: <3f6f2cfb@news.swissonline.ch> <vmuhsrr68tlj27@news.supernews.com> <3f6fdd8e@news.swissonline.ch> <1064298380.225028@yasure>
Message-ID: <3f708c10@news.swissonline.ch>

Ok, I came up with this so far, many thanks to all who contributed!

Best regards
Franz GEIGER


import os.path, re
from imaplib import *


class Finder:
   def __init__(self, text):
      self._value = None
      results = self._rex.findall(text)
      if results:
         self._value = results[0]
      return

   def value(self):
      return self._value


class UIDfinder(Finder):

   _rex = re.compile(r'UID (\d+)')


class FileNameFinder(Finder):

   _rex = re.compile(r'\("application" ".+?" \("name" "(.+?)"\)')

   def ft(self):
      if not self._value:
         return None

      root, ft = os.path.splitext(self._value)
      return ft


class SenderFinder(Finder):

   _rex = re.compile(r'From\: (.+)\r', re.M | re.I)



class SubjectFinder(Finder):

   _rex = re.compile(r'Subject\: (.+)\r', re.M | re.I)


class DateFinder(Finder):

   _rex = re.compile(r'Date\: (.+)\r', re.M | re.I)


class MessageSummary:
   def __init__(self, uid, fileName, text):
      if not fileName:
         fileName = ''

      self._uid = uid
      self._fileName = fileName

      self._sender = ''
      self._subject = ''
      self._date = ''

      f = SenderFinder(text)
      if f.value():
         self._sender = f.value()

      f = SubjectFinder(text)
      if f.value():
         self._subject = f.value()

      f = DateFinder(text)
      if f.value():
         self._date = f.value()

      return

   def __str__(self):
      return self.formatted()

   def formatted(self):
      return "From      : %s\nSubject   : %s\nAttachment: %s\nFile-Name :
%s" % (self._sender, self._subject, self._date, self._fileName)

   def uid(self):
      return self._uid


class Deleter:
   def __init__(self, server, messageSummaries):
      self._server = server
      self._messageSummaries = messageSummaries
      self._uids = [ms.uid() for ms in self._messageSummaries]
      return

   def run(self):
      uids = ','.join(self._uids)
      r = self._server.uid("STORE", uids, "+FLAGS.SILENT", "(\Deleted)")[0]
      if r in ("OK", "Ok", "ok"):
  return ''
      else:
  return "Error - Could Not Delete Messages"


class Expunger:
   def __init__(self, server):
      self._server = server
      return

   def run(self):
      self._server.expunge()
      return


print "Logging in."
server = IMAP4("<myDomain>")
server.login("<myUserName>", "<myPassword>")
server.select()


print "Begin to cleanup mailbox."
messagesToDelete = []
i = 0
while (1):
   i += 1

   r, d = server.fetch(i, "(UID BODY)")
   if r == 'NO' or d[0] is None:
      break
   uid = UIDfinder(d[0]).value()
   fnf = FileNameFinder(d[0])
   fn = fnf.value()
   if not fn:
      print '.',
      continue

   ft = fnf.ft()

   r, d = server.fetch(i, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (Date From Subject)])")

   ms = MessageSummary(uid, fn, d[0][1])

   if ft.lower() == ".exe":
      print '*',
      messagesToDelete.append(ms)
   else:
      print '.',


if messagesToDelete:
   print "\n" * 4
   print "%d messages are tagged to be deleted: " % len(messagesToDelete)
   for ms in messagesToDelete:
      print ms.formatted()
      print
   print
   if raw_input("Shall I delete them now (y/n)? ") == 'y':
      print 'Working...'
      d = Deleter(server, messagesToDelete)
      d.run()
      e = Expunger(server)
      e.run()
      print "Done. "
else:
   print
   print "No messages to delete. "


raw_input("Press any key to exit...")




"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1064298380.225028 at yasure...
> Quoth "F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at>:
>
> | I've stopped here, because I could not figure out how to get at the ids
of
> | mails with attachments. And if I had that missing link, I'd run into the
> | next hindrance: How can I delete a single message? IMAP4::delete()
deletes a
> | whole mailbox, not just a single mail.
> |
> | So my code really is only a few lines so far:
> |
> | i = IMAP4(myDomain)
> | i.login(myUser, myPassword)
> | i.select() # Select INBOX
> | r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS])") # Check 1st mail
> |
> | Seems I have to get a book about IMAP and how to use it...
>
> The IMAP4rev1 RFC of course covers these things, with examples.
> 2060, I think it is.  A message takes two steps to delete:  first,
> set a \Deleted flag on it, and then invoke expunge on the folder,
> which will remove all delete-flagged messages in the folder.
>
> Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com





From vepxistqaosani at netscape.net  Fri Sep  5 22:44:56 2003
From: vepxistqaosani at netscape.net (Vepxistqaosani)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:44:56 GMT
Subject: OT: best book in years
In-Reply-To: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <3F594A11.5020408@netscape.net>

Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am 
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across 
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like 
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
> few years, about Python or IT in general.
> 
> -Patrick

Patrick,

I very much enjoyed one of Hofstadter's other books: Le Ton Beau de 
Marot: In Praise of the Music of Language. It is tangentially related to 
IT, since it's about languages. And language is worth thinking about, 
even by those of us who are reputed not to be able to use (human) 
languages well. (This last observation courtesy of my wife.)

Fred




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 05:33:27 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:33:27 +0100
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com> <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu> <mailman.1064330017.10730.python-list@python.org> <u941nvg94ae04ajndvbjs2hlqc9l5lemqh@4ax.com> <8ef9bea6.0309270025.3c4d79ed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <drufnv8irkhpumggjc749q9b0q2m9g2gj4@4ax.com>

On 27 Sep 2003 01:25:10 -0700, hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
wrote:

>Tim Rowe <tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk> wrote in message news:<u941nvg94ae04ajndvbjs2hlqc9l5lemqh at 4ax.com>...
>> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:10:49 -0400, Shu-Hsien Sheu <sheu at bu.edu>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >In my understanding, using try/except rather than if/else is more 
>> >pythonic. 
>> 
>> Rule of thumb: when the block of code is still doing what it's
>> supposed to do, use if/else. If it's failing to do what it's supposed
>> to do, use try/except. "except" should be an /exception/!
>.....
>> So try/except /only/ when something has gone wrong and you need to go
>> into some sort of recovery or termination, /not/ for routine tests.
>
>You have a valid point of view, which nonetheless is not shared by
>everyone. This is a recurring subject in the newsgroup.

<examples snipped>

That's the nice thing about rules of thumb: they're not binding :-)

Internal constructs don't bother me -- ultimately it all comes down to
machine code which will be a mass of goto's.  That doesn't mean that
my code should be (could be!) a mass of goto's.

And the last time I needed a goto for anything I was programming in
BASIC; I don't need to use exceptions to emulate it in a language with
decent flow control constructs (Python qualifies, of course!).



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 22 09:52:17 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:52:17 +0200
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064178330.17024.python-list@python.org> <bkmqgt$e8c$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkmusf$v1b$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

> "Bob Halley" <halley at play-bow.org> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1064178330.17024.python-list at python.org...
>> So, all you need to do is put the socket.timeout except clause before
>> any socket.error clause:
>>
>> try:
>>     self.data = self.page.read()
>> except socket.timeout: ...
>>         except socket.error,e: ...
> 
> Thanks, that works fine, but I don't understand why the exception was not
> catched in my case. If I write it like this
> 
> try:
>     self.data = self.page.read()
> except socket.error,e: ...
> except socket.timeout: ...
> 
> the exception should be catched by the socket.error handler. Or am I
> wrong? In my case it was not catched at all. Very mysterious from my point
> of view, but it works now.
> 
> Achim

Achim, both you and me got it wrong the first time. The important part is to
put both urlopen() and page.read() into the try clause, as Alan Kennedy has
already shown. Both statements can throw a timeout exception, so it's sheer
luck that it worked this time. 
And yes, if you put

except socket.error:

before

except socket.timeout:

the latter will never be executed. General structure:


from urllib2 import urlopen
import socket

slowurl = "http://127.0.0.1/timeout?delay=100"
socket.setdefaulttimeout(1)

try:
    data = urlopen(slowurl)
    data.read()
except socket.timeout: 
    print "Timeout raised and caught"

Peter




From leonardbocock at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 20:14:20 2003
From: leonardbocock at yahoo.com (lebo)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 17:14:20 -0700
Subject: win32: 'Tailing' the NT event log using pipes?
Message-ID: <63701d2f.0309171614.6efa1845@posting.google.com>

Hi List

I want to effectively 'tail' the NT event log - i.e. when a new event
arrives in the log, parse it and decide whether to take an action.

The track I've gone down is to create an event, and use event notify
change; code snippet.....

win32event.CreateEvent(.....)
win32evtlog.NotfiyChangeEventLog(...)

This works, but I can't get the very last (newest) record from the
event log.

Is it possible to open a named pipe to the event log.  If so, how? 
This is new groud to me and examples or ways to do this would be
appreciated.

Thanks, Leonard



From pulapaka at ligo.caltech.edu  Mon Sep  8 18:41:58 2003
From: pulapaka at ligo.caltech.edu (Hari)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 15:41:58 -0700
Subject: os.listdir
Message-ID: <2ce42702.0309081441.5c73a772@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have question regarding os.listdir()


I wanted to know if this is a reliable way to check for files added to
a directory??

files = os.lisdir(path)

currentlen = len(files)

// directory modified 

files = os.listdor(path)

newlen = len(files)

then the files in the range (currentlen -1) to (newlen -1) are all the
files added to the directory.

What I wanted to know was, is it guaranteed that between 2 calls
os.listdir any files added to the directory are appended and the
earlier order is maintained?

thanks,

Hari



From mk at net.mail.penguinista  Thu Sep 11 07:07:22 2003
From: mk at net.mail.penguinista (=?UTF-8?B?0LTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCzLg==?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:07:22 +0200
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python
References: <mailman.1063224795.24414.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.10.22.42.45.569436@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <3f60576a@news.mt.net.mk>


> 
> One idea:
> pygame can render with TTF fonts,
> it can also save surfaces in tga format.
> Then use PIL to convert to gif. The only
> question is, can pygame do this without displaying
> a window etc.
> 
> Simon Burton.

Perhaps python gdmodule will do?
http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html



-- 
??????                                  (jabberID:damjan at bagra.net.mk)

ISP techs know most computer problems are PEBKAC. 
  (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Sep 25 11:23:09 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:23:09 +0200
Subject: Stuck building a Python extension
References: <memo.20030925140741.2140G@forestfield.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bkv1h1$dl$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

David Hughes wrote:
> I'm nearly there building a Python extension module to access a set of
> functions in a .dll, but I'm getting an unresolved external error for
> one of the function calls (using MS Visual C++ V6).
>
> The function prototype is:
>
> extern short __stdcall SharewareLimit(char * s1, char * s2, short i);
[..]
> I would expect the code to be calling a function called
> _SharewareLimit at 10 to match the size of the arguments (and which I
> have called successfully from a Fortran program in the past), but the
> unresolved external is _SharewareLimit at 12, implying that somewhere
> the short 2-byte integer is being promoted to 4 bytes.
>
> I know this is probably a C compiler (settings?) not a Python
> problem, but I'd appreciate some assistance as my knowledge in this
> area is sketchy.

C compilers are generally promoting shorts to ints and floats to doubles
when passing them as arguments. This is reflected in the @12.

#pragma pack (2) didn't work either, so I'm out of ideas. Do you know which
language created the DLL?

Daniel

>
> Thanks, David.





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Sep  4 09:42:43 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:42:43 -0500
Subject: Arguments of function as out
In-Reply-To: <20030904125110.GC14960@unpythonic.net>
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com> <wzoey20yy4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl> <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1@news.t-online.com> <20030904125110.GC14960@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20030904134243.GD14960@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 07:51:15AM -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> I found this result when searching for 'omniorbpy "out parameter"':
>     http://www.omniorb-support.com/pipermail/omniorb-list/2000-April/015244.html
> I don't know for certain that this is the way omniorbpy behaves today,
> but it is a very pythonic way to work.
[...]
> | I recommend that you read the mapping specification, which you can
> | download from
> | 
> |   http://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/doc?ptc/00-01-12

[Replying to my own post]

The current version of that document can be retrieved from 
http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/formal/python.htm
-> http://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/doc?formal/02-11-05
-> http://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/apps/doc?formal/02-11-05.pdf
or http://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/apps/doc?formal/02-11-05.ps

Page 1-12 discusses the treatment of "out" and "inout" parameters and
the mapping onto Python return values:

    Operations of an interface map to methods available on the object
    references.  Parameters with a parameter attribute of in or inout are
    passed from left to right to the method, skipping out parameters. The
    return value of a method depends on the number of out parameters
    and the return type. If the operation returns a value, this value
    forms the first result value. All inout or out parameters form
    consecutive result values. The method result depends then on the
    number of result values:
      . If there is no result value, the method returns None.
      . If there is exactly one result value, it is returned as a
        single value.
      . If there is more than one result value, all of them are packed
        into a tuple, and this tuple is returned.

    Assuming the IDL definition

        interface I{
            oneway void stop();
            bool more_data();
            void get_data(out string name,out long age);
        };

    a client could write

        names={}
        while my_I.more_data():
            name,age = my_I.get_data()
            names[name]=age
            my_I.stop()

Jeff




From shane at zope.com  Thu Sep 11 16:14:51 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:14:51 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <1063310587.2069.247.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3F60C3DA.6070409@zope.com> <1063310587.2069.247.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3F60D7BB.2060104@zope.com>

Jeremy Hylton wrote:
> This sounds like POSH.  There was a paper about it at PyCon.
> 
> http://poshmodule.sourceforge.net/posh/html/

Excellent.  Thank you for the pointer.

Shane





From ulope at gmx.de  Thu Sep 18 08:41:27 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:41:27 +0200
Subject: [NEWBIE] How to call an external program
References: <2f9jmvcct6ai7dcg1ghhmm6bc7beuo18h0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bkc95n$2bo1$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Philipp Neuhaus" <mailto:philipp.neuhaus at uni-muenster.de> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:2f9jmvcct6ai7dcg1ghhmm6bc7beuo18h0 at 4ax.com...
> Hi,
> I want to convert an image file, so I have to call an external
> program.
> How can I do this?
>
> (i want to call "sfftobmp -tifs input tempfile" and "tiff2ps tempfile*
> | ps2pdf [output]")
>

-----code---cut here----
import os

def convertImage(infile, outfile):
    os.system('sfftobmp -tifs %s tempfile' % infile)
    os.system('tiff2ps tempfile* | ps2pdf %s' % outfile)

convertImage('/home/user/in.tif', '/home/user/out.pdf')
-----code---cut here----

HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 17:52:04 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:52:04 GMT
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>        <bk7lq1$qicfh$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>        <bk7mkg$4s$1@news.peterlink.ru>        <FHJ9b.13226$x21.7557@twister.southeast.rr.com> <mailman.1063744462.12059.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8CL9b.13745$x21.7872@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1063744462.12059.python-list at python.org...
>
>     >> If I remember it right, None is going to be promoted into keywords
>     >> soon. Therefore the warning.
>
>     M-a-S> Will it be lower-case (together with false and true) like all
>     M-a-S> other keywords or is it just a start of mess?
>
> Python is a case-sensitive language. Variables named "none" and "None" are
> different.  It's unlikely that Python's case-sensitive properties will
> change, so the SyntaxWarning will only be raised for "None".
>
> Skip

That's why I feel that none, true and false must be literals and keywords (not variables).

BTW this won't prevent True and False from staying in the language (till 3.0 :-)
and behaving exactly as they do now:

>>> True = False; False = not True
>>>
>>> False
True
>>> True
False

Only the output will be

>>> False
true
>>> True
false


M-a-S





From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Sep 24 09:26:53 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:26:53 +0200
Subject: newbie script
In-Reply-To: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
Message-ID: <3F719B9D.5040703@ghaering.de>

ataraxia2500 wrote:
> I wanna do a script that launch a programm xyz and relaunch xyz if it
> crashes. what kind of module do I need for such a task?

Something like this:

import os
while 1:
     os.system("j:/UT2003/System/UT2003.exe")

os.system executes a program and waits, until the program is terminated. 
But there's no way to know wether the program was terminated 
deliberately or wether it crashed.

-- Gerhard




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 08:54:39 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:54:39 -0500
Subject: Quickie mail.python.org status
In-Reply-To: <oqhe3tv32x.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
References: <727daa7e.0309031140.1af820b2@posting.google.com>
        <oqhe3tv32x.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <16215.13839.220121.550541@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Francois> I do not understand why the bad guys would have programmed
    Francois> such a deadline within their code, but I still wish this
    Francois> deadline story is true!

The speculation I've read is that the author was paid (or is going to be
paid) by spammers.  The virus will propagate (and relay spam?) until the
agreed upon deadline.

Skip





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 13:15:14 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:15:14 -0500
Subject: Python Glossary
Message-ID: <16241.53538.40615.455582@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Thanks to people who submitted content for the Python Glossary:

    http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary

I just completed a first pass at folding it into the Python tutorial.  It's
now a separate appendix to that document.  It will take awhile for the
changes to show up on the website and in distributions, but if you have
named CVS access to the Python distribution, you can get to it now.  People
with only anonymous CVS access or no CVS access at all will have to wait
awhile for SourceForge to update the server.  After a day or so it should be
available here:

    http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Doc/tut/

I would appreciate it if people could proofread it (if you're anxious to get
to work, mail me and I'll send you a copy of the glossary.tex file).  I made
some changes to the definitions, but was focused more on getting the content
into the tutorial than on wordsmithing.

As a side-effect, the tutorial now also has an index.  All but one or two of
the entries it contains are from the glossary.  The entire tutorial needs to
be "indexified".  If you would like to help with that, please feel free.  In
any case, any changes should be submitted as a documentation bug or patch
(if you have some proposed context diffs) and assigned to me (SF username:
montanaro).

Please don't feel shy about adding new entries to the existing Wiki-based
glossary either.  I will notice updates and migrate new or corrected terms
over as I have time.  I don't plan to dismantle it, at least not for the
forseeable future.  At some point I may migrate it to the Python.org Wiki
though.

Skip








From fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw  Wed Sep 17 14:05:15 2003
From: fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (fortepianissimo)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
In-Reply-To: <16232.40145.813183.441676@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030917180515.4765.qmail@web16913.mail.tpe.yahoo.com>

Actually I like your idea most (out of other iterator approach) - now
if we could do an in-place set filtering... (maybe have a different
version of set.discard() which takes a lambda expression?)

--- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>     fortepianissimo> But this created two lists (keys and dummy)?
> Compared
>     fortepianissimo> to the filter() method, which created a list and
> a new
>     fortepianissimo> set, maybe your suggestion is still a bit
> faster...
> 
> You asked for alternatives.  I offered one.  I'll let you do the
> performance
> testing. ;-)
> 
> Skip
> 
>     fortepianissimo> --- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>     >> 
>     fortepianissimo> I know I can do things like
>     fortepianissimo> s=Set(range(1,11))
>     fortepianissimo> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))
>     >> 
>     fortepianissimo> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a
>     >> list
>     fortepianissimo> which then must be converted back to a set. Any
>     >> tips?
>     >> 
>     >> The only thing which comes to mind is:
>     >> 
>     >> >>> s = sets.Set(range(1,11))
>     >> >>> s
>     >> Set([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10])
>     >> >>> keys = list(s)
>     >> >>> dummy = [s.discard(x) for x in keys if x%2]
>     >> >>> s
>     >> Set([2, 4, 6, 8, 10])
>     >> 
>     >> You still create a list, but don't create a second set.
>     >> 
>     >> Skip
> 
> 
>     fortepianissimo> __________________________________
>     fortepianissimo> Do you Yahoo!?
>     fortepianissimo> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
> design software
>     fortepianissimo> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 18:15:34 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:15:34 GMT
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
References: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com> <LIAab.7544$9G2.6227@twister.southeast.rr.com> <mailman.1063967785.18911.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aeLab.21314$x21.5794@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Richie Hindle" <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1063967785.18911.python-list at python.org...
>
> M-a-S, are you sure you saved test_data.txt with Unix line endings?  I
> tested Peter's script under WinXP/Python2.3 as well, and it failed as
> expected (though with slightly different results):
> <......>
> -- 
> Richie Hindle
> richie at entrian.com
>

Oops! Stupid me! With '\n' it behaves really weird. Same values as yours.

Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:   8         (-3 off the right value - M-a-S)
Filepointer:  20        (-2)
Filepointer:  31        (-1)
Filepointer:  50        (-0)

Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:  11
Filepointer:  22
Filepointer:  32
Filepointer:  50

For the file '0123456789\n'*12 it prints:

Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:   0     (-11 off the right value)
Filepointer:  12    (-10)
Filepointer:  24     (-9)
Filepointer:  36     (-8)
Filepointer:  48     (-7)
Filepointer:  60     (-6)
Filepointer:  72     (-5)
Filepointer:  84     (-4)
Filepointer:  96     (-3)
Filepointer: 108    (-2)
Filepointer: 120    (-1)
Filepointer: 132    (-0)

Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:  11
Filepointer:  22
Filepointer:  33
Filepointer:  44
Filepointer:  55
Filepointer:  66
Filepointer:  77
Filepointer:  88
Filepointer:  99
Filepointer: 110
Filepointer: 121
Filepointer: 132

If I add another line, it breakes:

Filepointer:   0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Home\Programming\Python\t\t.py", line 5, in ?
    print 'Filepointer:%4d' %  fp.tell()
IOError: (0, 'Error')

M-a-S





From cnetzer at sonic.net  Tue Sep  2 07:20:38 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 04:20:38 -0700
Subject: Overloading objects
In-Reply-To: <3f5469c4@news.comindico.com.au>
References: <mailman.1062424624.4041.python-list@python.org>
	 <3f5469c4@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <1062501638.1870.30.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 02:58, Tom Lee wrote:
> Batista, Facundo wrote:

> > I thought using defaults:
> > 
> > def myMethod (self, name, age=None):
> >         self.name = name
> >         if age not None:
> >                 self.age = age
> > 
> > 
> > but I'm concerned about the scalability of this.

In general, it isn't a problem.  You really don't want methods with LOTS
of arguments.  If you need variable numbers of arguments, where the
default value system doesn't help you, just use *args, and do things
positionally by counting the length of the argument list.

In Python, you can always use argument keywords when you call your
method, so you don't need to remember the positions.  Learn to rely on
keyword arguments, and your life with Python will be happier.

Also, you can use a dictionary to hold and pass your arguments around
easily, and can have it automatically substitute the keyword values when
you call the function (using **kwds).  If you need LOTS of arguments,
use a dictionary or class, and pass THAT to your method.

> > What's the most pythonic way to do this? Using something like *args or 
> > **args?

Yes.  It is easy and powerful once you see some examples.


[Tom Lee]
> Scalability doesn't even come into this question - if you're really 
> worried about performance, don't use Python.

I assume the original poster was concerned with the scaling of the
number of arguments, and it becoming unmanagable to use and maintain. 
Not anything to do with speed (ie. a different kind of 'scaling')

> Anyway, you have two or three choices:
> 
> 1. Do it the way you're doing it.
yep.

> 2. Check parameter types at runtime using type() and the is keyword. e.g.
> if type( somevar ) is int:
>    self.do_int_stuff( somevar )
> else:
>    self.do_other_stuff( somevar )

Rather than doing explicit type checks, it is somehat more robust to try
to operate on the argument as if it were a valid type, and be prepared
to handle exceptions.  Only coerce to another to another type when you
need to:

try:
    self.do_int_stuff( int( some_int_like_var ) )
except TypeError:
    [handle the other cases or error]

If you do want to have set types (as one often does), try to test based
on behavior, since many objects can act similarly and interact together,
without being the same type (and so type checking will always be overly
restrictive and reduce the utility of your design)

Anyway, it is a tangential, and somewhat more advanced topic than this
thread was started to cover.

> 3. Use similar names for similar methods. wxPython does this. e.g.

yep.  Although that's not my favorite design.  Just makes it harder to
learn things by introspection (requires more reference manual searching
than using fewer methods with more option arguments, (IMO))  It's a
tricky balance, sometimes.

-- 
Chad Netzer





From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep 20 18:04:53 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 22:04:53 GMT
Subject: 2nd iteration of a character
References: <bkigte$1e3b$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bkiiu5$glb$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:27:23 +0200, Philippe Rousselot <mailing at rousselot.rg> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>How do I find the second iteration of a character in a string using python
>
>this gives me the first one
>f1 = string.find(line,sub)
>
>this the last one
>f2 = string.rfind(line,sub)
>
>but for the nth one ?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Philippe
>
>PS : any good book to recommend ?
Online tutorials first ;-)


 >>> s='01x34x678x012345x789x'
 >>> def find_nth(s, ss, n):
 ...     i = -len(ss)
 ...     for j in xrange(n):
 ...         i += len(ss)
 ...         i = s.find(ss,i)
 ...         if i<0: return i
 ...     return i<0 and -1 or i
 ...
 >>> find_nth(s,'x', 1)
 2
 >>> find_nth(s,'x', 2)
 5
 >>> find_nth(s,'x', 3)
 9
 >>> [find_nth(s,'x', i) for i in xrange(5)]
 [-1, 2, 5, 9, 16]
 >>> [find_nth(s,'x7', i) for i in xrange(5)]
 [-1, 16, -1, -1, -1]
 >>> [find_nth(s,'01', i) for i in xrange(5)]
 [-1, 0, 10, -1, -1]
 >>> [find_nth(s,'34', i) for i in xrange(5)]
 [-1, 3, 13, -1, -1]
 >>> [find_nth(s,'xx', i) for i in xrange(5)]
 [-1, -1, -1, -1, -1]

BTW, the above is not the fastest possible code, just a quick first prototype,
and not tested beyond what you see above ;-)


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 04:13:45 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:13:45 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <bjgnef$tfr$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <005301c375e1$25da9800$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Bengt Wrote
>It looks slick, but not really technically slick in a way
>that would lead me to expectations about Python, just
>eye-candy/we-spend-more-on-advertising-than-research
>kind of slick (though for largely irrelevant photos, I
>prefer pretty things and/or great photography ;-)

What has amazed me throughout the pulling of a discussion
Onto the Python list is the amount of furor that has been
generated by the use of three photographs. The marketing 
content of the website takes only 7% of the space of the
main page. The remaining is textual navigation content.

If we're in a position where people hate photography then
I think we have to accept that this is an irrational 
problem and that it shouldn't affect the promotion of
Python in the computer industry.

For those still commenting on the contrast issue, please
understand that there are accessibility guidelines that
suggest a use of 70% contrast in order to maximise readability
for all users.

These are my last comments on the comp.lang.python mailing list.
If anyone wants to continue the disucssion and really help to
create/promote Python, please move to either

http://pythonology.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-python

or

http://pythonology.org/mailman/listinfo/py-design-forum

The second list if it's website or design related.

Tim






From alpot at mylinuxsite.com  Sun Sep  7 23:02:58 2003
From: alpot at mylinuxsite.com (hostmaster)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 11:02:58 +0800
Subject: Question on Standard Types
In-Reply-To: <bjfq8r$lg7$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1062951612.13844.python-list@python.org>
	 <bjfq8r$lg7$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1062990178.13887.36.camel@mylinuxsite.com>

> Actually, this bit *is* definitely out of date; Python 2.2 introduced
> new-style classes, and all the standard types are now new-style classes.

Well, I guess I have to find a new book then.

Thanks everyone.

Al






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 15:52:15 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 15:52:15 -0400
Subject: Python memory management
References: <mailman.1062002453.11411.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjg29f$cp9$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1062002453.11411.python-list at python.org>,
Marcelo A. Camelo <camelo at esss.com.br> wrote:
>
>I've noticed that, from all their concerns, the most difficult to tackle
>(for me, at least) is memory management. 
>
>Currently, the most popular platform for game applications are videogame
>consoles. Memory on these special purpose machines are a premium
>resource and one should used it judiciously. Python's RTE footprint and
>memory fragmentation issues make it a hard sell for game programmers
>(many tend to prefer LUA).

As Michael Hudson said, those are real issues.  Nevertheless, the
increasing power of game consoles renders the first issue less
important, and PyMalloc (standard in Python 2.3) does much to alleviate
the second issue.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep  9 16:55:26 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:55:26 -0700
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at 
 runtime?
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <vlsd93p4kp004b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F5E3E3E.9C31763F@alcyone.com>

John Roth wrote:

> As Nick said, you can use the exec statement. You can
> also use the _import() function.

>>> _import
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name '_import' is not defined

Do you mean __import__?

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ But when I reached the finished line / Young black male
\__/  Ice Cube



From bram at nospam.sara.nl  Tue Sep 23 04:59:03 2003
From: bram at nospam.sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:59:03 +0200
Subject: import pickle succeeds only after two tries??
Message-ID: <1064307542.783575@blaat.sara.nl>

Hello,


I am using python-2.2.2 on linux-ARM.
Python itself works OK.
However, importing pickle gives me *very* strange results:

The first 'import pickle' fails with "ImportError: No module named StringIO"
If I immediately do a second 'import pickle', it works????

See this log:

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Mar 26 2003, 03:05:45)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import pickle
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pickle.py", line 971, in ?
     from StringIO import StringIO
ImportError: No module named StringIO
 >>> import pickle
 >>> dir(pickle)
['APPEND', 'APPENDS', 'BINFLOAT', 'BINGET', 'BININT', 'BININT1', 
'BININT2', 'BINPERSID', 'BINPUT', 'BINSTRING', 'BINUNICODE', 'BUILD', 
'BufferType', 'BuiltinFunctionType', 'BuiltinMethodType', 'ClassType', 
'CodeType', 'ComplexType', 'DICT', 'DUP', 'DictProxyType', 'DictType', 
'DictionaryType', 'EMPTY_DICT', 'EMPTY_LIST', 'EMPTY_TUPLE', 
'EllipsisType', 'FLOAT', 'FileType', 'FloatType', 'FrameType', 
'FunctionType', 'GET', 'GLOBAL', 'GeneratorType', 'INST', 'INT', 
'InstanceType', 'IntType', 'LIST', 'LONG', 'LONG_BINGET', 'LONG_BINPUT', 
'LambdaType', 'ListType', 'LongType', 'MARK', 'MethodType', 
'ModuleType', 'NONE', 'NoneType', 'OBJ', 'ObjectType', 'PERSID', 'POP', 
'POP_MARK', 'PUT', 'PickleError', 'Pickler', 'PicklingError', 
'PyStringMap', 'REDUCE', 'SETITEM', 'SETITEMS', 'SHORT_BINSTRING', 
'STOP', 'STRING', 'SliceType', 'StringType', 'StringTypes', 'TUPLE', 
'TracebackType', 'TupleType', 'TypeType', 'UNICODE', 
'UnboundMethodType', 'UnicodeType', 'Unpickler', 'UnpicklingError', 
'XRangeType', '_EmptyClass', '_Stop', '__all__', '__builtins__', 
'__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__version__', '_keep_alive', 
'classmap', 'compatible_formats', 'dispatch_table', 'format_version', 
'marshal', 'mdumps', 'mloads', 're', 'safe_constructors', 'struct', 
'sys', 'whichmodule', 'x']

I find this extremely strange.
What could be going on here?

Thanks in advance,

   Bram Stolk




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Fri Sep 12 03:20:53 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:20:53 GMT
Subject: safari (was Re: Writing solid code book)
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <c19a00587rpb$.1dbigl3h85ufm$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <3f617389.593042620@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:14:05 -0600, Jules Dubois
<bogus at invalid.tld> wrote:
> However, seeing for the first time Python's syntax in _Nutshell_ was enough
> to scare me away.  

Really? Can I ask why? I'd have thought seing Pythons syntax
would be a breath of frsh air to most programmers, it certainly
was for me. Why did you think it was scary?

Curious,

Alan G.

Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From jobs at grapevinepartners.com  Thu Sep  4 19:28:52 2003
From: jobs at grapevinepartners.com (Frank Steele)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:28:52 GMT
Subject: 2nd Post: Atlanta Python jobs
Message-ID: <jobs-43E2B2.19285804092003@news04.east.earthlink.net>

<a href="http://www.mtni.net">The Transit Grapevine</a> 
Atlanta, Georgia 
(Buckhead/Midtown)

Job Description: Python developers - We're seeking Python developers to 
help us build and manage a network of electronic signs scheduled to be 
deployed in U.S. transit stations. Contract work, on a 
project-by-project basis.

Job Requirements:

- Ideal candidate will have experience interfacing Python with databases 
and/or with networked devices.

- Must be comfortable working solo, or on a small team with minimal 
supervision.

- Strong preference for metro Atlanta residents, because of the need to 
develop against specialized hardware.

Contract position on a project basis. We will consider proposals from 
software development groups. We will begin interviewing as we receive 
resumes.

Contact: Frank Steele

E-mail contact: <a 
href="mailto:jobs at grapevinepartners.com">jobs at grapevinepartners.com</A>

Please send resume, link(s) to previous project(s), hourly salary 
requirements.



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Sep  7 18:09:57 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:09:57 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com> <bjg47a$euv$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F5BACB5.E4F4734F@alcyone.com>

Aahz wrote:

> The current website has a number of navigation, structural, and
> content
> flaws resulting from the fact that it has grown organically for
> roughly
> a decade.  It is also harder to maintain than we'd prefer.  Finally,
> it
> looks a bit dated.

That sounds like what's warranted is a reorganization, not necessarily a
redesign.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man.
\__/  Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (the evening before his assassination)



From tayss_temp at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 02:38:19 2003
From: tayss_temp at yahoo.com (Tayss)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 23:38:19 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0309072238.4f5bc965@posting.google.com>

"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list at python.org>...
> Please don't consider this, the majority of corporate users will find
> the site themselves or through links in articles magazines, etc. so
> they will still get first impressions from the main home page. If
> anything we could provide a developer portal page which may be used
> as a bookmark. [...]  What is
> wrong with the information architecture / navigation on the page
> proposal. 

The new version is well-executed.  Different elements contrast; most
people like seeing faces (especially when they're flush with
success)...

But as a DEVELOPER, it doesn't work for me.  I hate seeing
happy-looking guys when I get out of bed with someone to bang out some
code that struck me.  Announcements are trapped in their safe boxes,
which dominate their content.

What I want as a developer is in conflict with what I'd want as a
businessperson.  A suit wants good /relevant/ info, that tells her
Python isn't snake oil, that it's a good investment that also conforms
to standards.  Maybe a directory of consultants and supporting
software to purchase.  Every so often something new, like someone
sharing Powerpoint slides that made his audience feel educated.

If the sites aren't separated, the danger is noise.  The best sites
focus.  Like apple.com and Google.  Apple is pleasant to visit because
there are a few sharp things to announce.  If you can please two
audiences with one page, you're very skilled.


- Tayssir John Gabbour



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 20:15:00 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:15:00 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com> <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <vli9pochlcoc8e@news.supernews.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3f591d28$0$175$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> In article <vli387c9mm140a at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
>
> >> So that there's no difference between a function and a method.
> >>
> >> Simplicity and orthogonality are good things -- despite what
> >> C++ proponents thing.
> >>
> >> > Hence my comment that requiring it is more complex than not
> >> > requiring it.
> >>
> >> No, it's more complex the Java/Ruby way, since you have to have
> >> two sets of rules for what a name means depending on whether
> >> you're inside a "normal" function or a method.  In Python
> >> there's just one set of rules -- mostly.
> >
> > As I said earlier, it's quite possible to define it so that there
> > is always an instance of some kind; whether that's an instance
> > a class or the module itself.
>
> I don't follow.  You're talking about defining a keyword that
> always refers to the first parameter passed to a function?  And
> the declared parameters would refer to the 2nd through Nth
> parameters?  What if the keyword isn't used in the function
> definition, then do the delcared parameters refer to the 1st
> through Nth?

When Python invokes a function, it binds the operands in the
function call to the identifiers named in the function / method
header. If this is a method, it binds the instance (which is not
in the invocation parameter list, btw.) to the first
parameter in the method header.

If you make "self" a reserved word, then all it has to do
is bind the instance to "self," rather than the first identifier
in the parameter list.

In current python, there are two classes of functions (module
level and embedded) and three classes of methods (instance,
class and static.) Instance methods get the current instance,
class methods get the class object as the instance, and the other
three categories get nothing.

As a separate suggestion, I'd have Python bind the module
object to "self" for module functions and static methods. I
haven't figured out what I want done with embedded methods
and unbound methods yet. Notice that this eliminates the
need for the global statement for module functions - all
identifiers are accessible for rebinding through "self."

> > I think my comments have shown that you can reduce the amount
> > of scoping / name space rules noticably.
>
> Compared to what?  It sure sounds like you're introducing more
> rules than there are now.  How would you propose reducing the
> number of rules?

If you don't have to write "self" as the first parameter of a method,
that reduces the complexity. Everything else remains the same.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Somewhere in
Tenafly,
>                                   at               New Jersey, a
chiropractor
>                                visi.com            is viewing "Leave it to
>                                                    Beaver"!





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Sep 20 15:58:00 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:58:00 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bkibni$9ua$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"jblazi" <jblazi at hotmail.com> wrote:

>> from UserString import MutableString
>>
>> def test():
>>     s = MutableString("helo world")
>>     print s
>>     x = 'helo'
>>     y = 'hello'
>>     i = s.find(x)
>>     s[i:i+len(x)] = y
>>     print s
>>
>> if __name__=='__main__':
>>     test()
>>
>> #output:
>> #helo world
>> #hello world
>
>Thx.
>It would be quite diffcult to explain this akward procedure to beginners.
>especially when they see that this can be done so simply in C.
>It seems that I have stumbled upon one of the few cases when Python is
>cumbersome and difficult to use.

Interesting. Could you provide an example showing in which way it can
be done so simply in C ? Maybe I could come up with better Python code
if I knew what the problem is with my code. Anyway, it was just
something I typed in without thinking much about it, to show that
strings can be mutated. In Python everything is an object so if some
functionality is needed it is pretty standard to use a subclass. In
this case a fitting subclass already was present in the standard
distribution so it seemed like a piece of cake.

With respect to beginners I suppose it's possible to project ones own
sense of what is easy, instead of really checking what would be easy
for *them*.

Beginners are not supposed to know about C, but possibly you are, and
maybe you are thinking too much from your own perspective in judging
what would be easy.

Anton



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep  9 18:31:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:31:59 -0400
Subject: virtual inner classes in python?
References: <opru86ohov5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>
Message-ID: <3F5E54DF.8ED73922@engcorp.com>

kasper graversen wrote:
> 
> I've just started learning python. I see methods are declared virtual by
> default as in Java. Nice. However, the inner class construct seems to be
> even weaker as that of Java. Not nice! :-( Why are inner classes not
> virtual? will they be in a near future? What other language can you
> recomend, if python cannot provide what I need?
> 
> My problem is that in the __init__ below, I cannot instantiate "Foo" but
> have to explicate "Test.foo".. secondly, I want to instantiate the "Foo" in
> test2 rather than in tester in the current example..
> 
> class Test:
>     def __init__(self):
>         lala = Test.Foo()
>         lala.show()
>         class Foo:
>         def show(self):
>             print "Test.foo.show"

With the tabs that you used, the above formatting is what some of us
saw.  It seems you meant for "class Foo" to appear at the same level
of indentation as the "def __init__", right?

As for "declared virtual by default", I don't think this is quite
correct for Python.  All methods are always virtual in Python, 
unless one goes to extremes to simulate some other effect, I think.

Anyway, I believe the problem you are experiencing stems from a lack
of understanding of how Python finds things in its "namespaces".  
This is a key concept to issues such as the one you are investigating,
and you won't get far if you assume Python is anything like Java
or other static languages in this respect.

First, you need to specify Test.Foo because otherwise you are 
asking for a Foo that is found in the global (module) namespace.
You could also use "self.Foo" in this case, though it might be
considered slightly less clear, but I have a feeling it would 
do roughly what you want, whatever that is.  (You didn't really
make it clear what you want, as near as I can tell.)

-Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 14:23:52 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:23:52 -0400
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6F3E38.5221D7E7@engcorp.com>

Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:
> 
> I have a question about the comparison of efficiency of string slicing
> and using string.startswith.
> For example, which one of the following would be more efficient, or ,
> moreover, more pythonic?
> 
> if aa[:3] == 'abc':
> 
> vs
> 
> if aa.startswith('abc'):

The latter is clearly more readable.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Sep 21 21:23:56 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:23:56 -0400
Subject: Exceptions in threads?
References: <roy-3A4750.18235921092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F6E4F2C.592EFB77@engcorp.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> 
> What is supposed to happen when an exception is raised and not caught in
> a thread?  The Reference Manual (section 4.2) states "When an exception
> is not handled at all, the interpreter terminates execution of the
> program, or returns to its interactive main loop", but it looks like
> what really happens is the thread is terminated, not the whole program.

The behaviour you observed is generally what seems to happen, though
I'm not sure it's even remotely guaranteed what the behaviour will
be across platforms.

If you want your threads' termination to kill the whole program, I 
think you would need to do two things.  One is wrap each thread with
a generic exception handler which catches all exceptions that aren't
otherwise caught and sends a signal to the main thread, which would
be set up to wait for such a signal and terminate when it got one.
The second would be to make all threads daemon threads, so that 
when the main thread tries to terminate it doesn't wait for the
other threads to finish as it does by default.

None of this will, of course, help you if you have a thread blocked
in, say, a socket connection attempt or something like that.

-Peter



From jblazi at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 20 15:08:40 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:08:40 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bkhnpn$hgc$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> >Do I oversee something?
>
> Yes, UserString. The documentation is a bit sparse, but reading the
> module itself provides additional information. Below is a quick test
> script.
>
> from UserString import MutableString
>
> def test():
>     s = MutableString("helo world")
>     print s
>     x = 'helo'
>     y = 'hello'
>     i = s.find(x)
>     s[i:i+len(x)] = y
>     print s
>
> if __name__=='__main__':
>     test()
>
> #output:
> #helo world
> #hello world

Thx.
It would be quite diffcult to explain this akward procedure to beginners.
especially when they see that this can be done so simply in C.
It seems that I have stumbled upon one of the few cases when Python is
cumbersome and difficult to use.

JB





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Sep 26 17:33:26 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:33:26 +0200
Subject: squeeze and package imports
References: <lhcb41-6t3.ln1@valpo.de>
Message-ID: <bl2bbc$pq2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mathias Waack wrote:

> it works without squeezing and fails with squeezing. In the latter
> case, the Buffer import statement named above fails. The traceback
> shows, which import in which file is executed, but instead of the
> directory names of each file it prints only question marks "?". Thus
> I thought, if the import code doesn't know about the current
> directory, it can't import the Buffer module, because it can't look
> into the "same" directory. And so my second try:
>
>         sys.path.append("/tmp")
>         sys.path.append("/tmp/DCOracle")
>         import DCOracle
>
> And everything works fine. But I'm still curious - there seems to be
> something wrong with the import hooks in the squeeze module. BTW,
> I'm using python 2.2.2.

Python didn't have packages back in the early days when squeeze
was written (Python 1.3 or so); afaik, nobody's ever gotten around
to add true package support to the tool.

for a modern replacement, see:

    http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html

</F>







From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 15 12:10:00 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:10:00 +0200
Subject: Multiple instances of modules
References: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk4o9n$m5t$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Daniel Pryde wrote:

> Hi there.
> 
> I'm currently trying to learn Python, my aim being to create my final
> year project at university using only Python instead of Java. I've run
> into a problem though while trying to make multiple instances of
> modules.
> 
> For example, say I made a CD.py module which held details of an audio
> compact dic (album name, track names, etc..), and wanted my Python
> script to make a record collection using multiple CD's, I can't make
> them seperately. I tried using the 'import module as name' format, but
> any changes made to one instance affects the other. I assume this is
> because Python is simply referencing the one instance of CD.py rather
> than seperate ones. Is there a solution to this that doesn't involve
> using cPython or Jython? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

There is no connection between a class name and a module name enforced by
the language. If you already know a programming language, I strongly
recommend the tutorial that comes with the python distribution.

Below is a minimalist CD class with an example usage to get you started. 
(In Python you say CD() instead of Java's new CD())

#module cd.py
class CD:
    def __init__(self, composer, title):
        self.composer = composer
        self.title = title
    def __str__(self):
        return "%s: %s" % (self.composer, self.title)
#end module cd.py

#module main.py
from cd import CD
cdcoll = []
cdcoll.append(CD("Orff", "Carmina Burana"))
cdcoll.append(CD("Bach", "Goldberg-Variationen"))

for disk in cdcoll:
    print disk
#end module main.py     

Peter



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 16:21:26 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:21:26 +0100
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
References: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5apjnvspn7220pifp5b61cn762ml2joo6e@4ax.com>

On 30 Sep 2003 11:57:17 -0700, dokaspar at student.ethz.ch (Dominik
Kaspar) wrote:

>i'm used to java and its strict way of defining variables. so how is
>it possible to reach something like a class variable in python?
>with the following code i didn't have much succes...
>
>class Server(threading.Thread):
>    running = 0  (??)
>        
>    def run(self):
>        running = 1
>        while running:
>            print "do something here..."
>
>    def exit(self):
>        running = 0
>
>thanks
>-- dominik

Try:

class Server(threading.Thread):
	running = 0
	def run(self):
		Server.running = 1
		while Server.running:
			print "Hello!"
			self.exit()
	def exit(self):
		Server.running = 0

If you want class /functions/, though, you need a recent version of
Python.



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Sep 17 04:19:34 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 10:19:34 +0200
Subject: Anyone ever overridden a builtin by accident?
References: <c09b237b.0309061922.10d74b39@posting.google.com> <fde4537f.0309070436.436d01e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfu17bltd5.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky) writes:

> In one of my programs I wrote...
> 
> c = max(a,b)

> Then, I finally spotted the problem.  At the beginning of my program I
> had defined a variable called "max"!  I had overridden the __builtin__
> function by mistake.


voblia at centras.lt (Ignas Mikalajunas) writes:

>     Common Lisp solves this problem in a pretty simple way - functions
> and variables are in separate namespaces

But it doesn't really _solve_ the problem, does it?  It solves the
problem of overriding function bindings with data bindings (and vice
versa), but does nothing to prevent overriding function bindings with
other function bindings.  Consider:

def list():
    print "list"

and the Common Lisp equivalent

(defun list ()
  (print "list"))

In both cases you're clobbering a built-in. The difference, however, is
that, in Python you've merely shadowed the built-in -- the original is
still there in Python's outermost scope (builtins), while in CL you
are attempting to replace the built-in[*]. 

Common Lisp "solves" it, by forbidding it. But I do not think that
implementations are required to enforce the rule, so some (eg clisp)
complain:

  [1]> (defun list () (print "list"))
  
  ** - Continuable Error
  DEFUN/DEFMACRO(LIST): #<PACKAGE COMMON-LISP> is locked
  If you continue (by typing 'continue'): Ignore the lock and proceed
  1. Break [2]> 

while others (eg CMUCL), let it pass silently:

  Loaded subsystems:
      Python 1.1, target Intel x86
      CLOS 18e (based on PCL September 16 92 PCL (f))
  * (defun list () (print "list"))
  
  LIST

(Python, BTW, is the name of CMUCL's compiler :-)

> all global variables are commonly named *booo* *bah* and etc. so if
> you are overriding a global variable you are at least aware of it ...

Although the real purpose of the asterisks is to warn you about the
fact that the variable is dynamically bound[+], and that any local
bindings that you may make for it, will also be dynamic. The asterisks
are another form of namespace separation, but they address an
orthogonal issue, and offer absolutely no protection against
clobbering global _function_ definitions; global function names have
no asterisks (because they are not dynamically bound[#]).


[*] To be fair, Lisp distinguishes global function definitions from
    local ones, while in Python they are always local, so one can
    argue that the CL equivalent of Python's def is really flet or
    labels, which leave the built-in functions well alone, just as is
    the case in Python.

[+] As opposed to lexically bound, which is the default in CL, and the
    only possibility in Python.

[#] Though it has been suggested recently, that dynamic function
    binding subsumes AOP ... but that's getting waaaaay off-topic.



From paul.moore at atosorigin.com  Tue Sep  2 05:49:12 2003
From: paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 02:49:12 -0700
Subject: Structured writing to console, such as a table
References: <mailman.1062465724.6721.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <182bcf76.0309020149.638995bd@posting.google.com>

Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062465724.6721.python-list at python.org>...
 
> In addition to other responses, consider this which uses nested % 
> formatting to make format strings for reuse:

I like this one! Very simple, and the resulting code is easy to
understand.

Most of my code's complexity revolved around getting the column
widths, which you don't address - this is good, as it makes the
separation of issues clearer. One other issue which sometimes bites
me, when I need to print database tables, is whether to truncate
values which are too long for their field widths. It's another issue
the OP didn't specify a preference over. No criticism there, it's just
an illustration that for problems like this, knowing what you want is
often the bigger issue than writing code to do it... (A friend of mine
used to love quoting the example of functions to "ask for a yes/no
response", where it's nearly always easier to write your own version
than to work around the ways in which a canned version doesn't *quite*
meet your needs...)

In Python, reinventing wheels is often easy enough that it's not worth
the design effort of making things like this into truly reusable
library code. I can't work out if that's an advantage of Python :-)

Paul.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Sep 27 06:23:35 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 12:23:35 +0200
Subject: unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <m3r822a5so.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Rune Hansen <rune.hansen at viventus.no> writes:

> What I need is the converted string to read u'Gratis \248l' (*
> How do I do this without going through each and every character of the
> string?

You can register an error callback, like this:

import codecs

def decimal_escape(exc):
    try:
        data = exc.object
        res = u""
        for i in range(exc.start, exc.end):
            char = ord(data[i])
            if char < 1000:
                res += u"\\%03d" % char
            else:
                # Unsupported character
                raise exc

        return res, exc.end
    except:
        raise exc

codecs.register_error("decimal-escape", decimal_escape)

print u"Gratis \xf8l".encode("us-ascii", "decimal-escape")

Notice That your specification is a bit unclear as to what to do with
characters > 1000; I assume they are not supported in your protocol.

Regards,
Martin




From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep  5 04:07:19 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:07:19 +0200
Subject: Comparing objects - is there a maximum object?
References: <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj9gik$b9b$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Chris Brew wrote:

> Thing is, what happens at end of file? I'd like to
> do it by making the streams that are finished
> return some object (call it endmarker) such
> that min(x,endmarker) always returns x. That way,
> when all the streams are returning endmarker, we
> would be done. And I'd like my code to work the same
> no matter what kind of thing the streams are
> returning, so I want endmarker to be a generic
> maximum object.
> 

Why not remove "streams" that have reached the end?
You could do something like

def gen(*seqs):
    seqs = [iter(seq) for seq in seqs]
    done = []
    while True:
        result = []
        for it in seqs:
            try:
                result.append(it.next())
            except StopIteration:
                done.append(it)
        if len(done):
            for d in done:
                seqs.remove(d)
            done = []
        if len(result) == 0:
            break
        yield result

# produce sample data
import random
l1 = range(5)
l2 = range(10)
l3 = range(3, 6)
for l in l1, l2, l3:
    random.shuffle(l)

# demonstration
for i, x in enumerate(gen(l1, l2, l3)):
    print i, x, "-->", min(x)

There may be room for improvement in the gen() function, but the general
idea is not to compare objects made up only for that purpose and when you
already know the outcome.

Peter



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 09:00:01 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:00:01 GMT
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ll_7b.185$o71.177@news2.central.cox.net>

"Stephen Horne", using a ridiculous bogus email address, wrote...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:55:28 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
> wrote:
>
> >Obviously, your example could easily be rewritten to
> >
> >def inc(p):
> >    return p + 1
> >
> >x = inc(x)
> >
> >and a similar function with two by-ref parameters would still be
readable:
> >
> >x, y  = inc2(x, y)
> >
> >So here's my question. How many functions are there in your *real* code
that
> >could benefit from, say three or more by-ref parameters?
> >Hint: for me it comes close to 0 :-)
>
> Its not an issue of whether the same effect can be achieved in Python.
> It's more an issue of whether the method used expresses the
> programmers intentions properly.
>
> If a function is defined as...
>
>   def Inc (p) :
>     return p + 1
>
> then that to me expresses an intention which is different to that
> expressed by...
>
>   def Inc (ref p) :
>     p += 1
>
> The latter case expresses the intention to in-place rebinding of the
> parameter. In doing so, it better expresses the purpose of some kinds
> of functions (though not this noddy example, obviously).
>
> This is all very fuzzy, so let's examine an example which is based on
> an issue in some real Python code (though this is simplified to make
> the point). The problem is to insert an object into some container -
> appending to a list will do here. However, the object being inserted
> will typically be quite large, so we want to avoid copying it if
> possible.
>
> No problem there, it seems...
>
>   class c_Container :
>     f_List = []
>
>     def Add (self, p_Object) :
>       f_List.append (p_Object)
>
> The problem with this, however, is the risk of accidental
> side-effects. If the caller goes on to modify the object that he
> passed as a parameter, that will change the content of the container.
>
I don't see why this is any different, or worse, than having a function
modify a single reference. You are setting your calling code up to fail due
to the invisible side-effects of the function call. This is a Bad Idea.

[...]
> >By the way, this is strictly from a user perspective, I trust the Python
> >developers to overcome the implementation issuses, *if* there is a
> >significant usability improvement.
>
> And that is the big question.
>
> C# 'needs' ref parameters because it has no convenient way to return
> multiple values from a function. Python does not. The question is
> really whether this argument about expressing intentions and evading
> errors is compelling or not.
>
You have still to convince me that there would be any gain whatsoever. Think
of me as the forces of reaction ;-)

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 07:27:46 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:27:46 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com>  <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com>  <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com> <3F5F83B1.48763F85@alcyone.com>  <cg5vlvgorsi88elsn9ur5ueavpg27d7ui3@4ax.com> <3F5FD6D7.119F04A1@alcyone.com> <bjpadu$e9h$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <dom0mv09t0o5uadsl4p5fhb2o281ff6jat@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:06:22 +0000 (UTC), Thomas Bellman
<bellman at lysator.liu.se> wrote:

>No, you *would* know.  The above call would *not* be able to
>rebind any of thisArgument or thatArgument.

Thanks for the support.

>(For the record, I do not support Stephen's proposal, nor any
>other kinds of call-by-reference in Python.  For one, I don't
>think it meshes well with the rest of Python, and moreover, I
>have yet to encounter a real-world example where this would
>actually make code more readable - and I have been using Python
>for eight years now, and Lisp (which has similar call semantics)
>for a few years before that.)

Yes, I do agree with this now - it was a poorly thought out idea which
reveals nothing so much as the fact that I've got too comfortable with
some other languages ways of working.




From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Tue Sep 30 04:47:45 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:47:45 -0500
Subject: Question: Inheritance from a buil-in type
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907B59D0F@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Asun Friere [mailto:afriere at yahoo.co.uk] 
> 
> Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:<Xns9405A01F17467duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>...
> 
> > 
> > There are two rules. Generally, immutable objects get their 
> > initial values from the constructor (__new__) while mutable 
> > objects are constructed with a default value (e.g. empty 
> > list or dict) and are then set by the initialiser 
> > (__init__) method. A few types which you might expect to be 
> > immutable are actually mutable (e.g. property).
> >
> 
> What is the thinking behind that? I mean you /can/ pass initial values
> to a mutable using __new__,  eg
> 
>      class MyList (list) :
>          def __new__(cls, *args, **kwargs) :
>              return list.__new__(cls, *args, **kwargs)
> 
> or __init__ to pass values to a newly created immutable, eg
> 
>      class MyTuple (tuple) :
>          def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs) :
>              return super(tuple, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)
> 
> can't you?  What's the pitfall?

Shart answer: you should call super as "super(MyTuple, self)".

Long answer: http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#cooperation.

-- bjorn





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Sep 16 11:21:54 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:21:54 -0400
Subject: object.attribute vs. object.getAttribute()
References: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <kTF9b.1591$Ie5.289379@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hi.

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-81B3E5.20291015092003 at reader2.panix.com...
[snip]
> 1) More typing (which implies more reading, which I think reduces the
> readability of the finished product).
> 2) Need to write (and test) all those silly little functions.

If you only intend to create simple properties[*], then the following recipe
may address issues 1) and 2) (except for the testing part):

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/157768

If you're going to create more complex properties, you may find this
recipe(idiom) of interest:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/205183


Hope that's useful,
Sean



[*]  By "simple properties", I mean something like the following:

''' assume we're inside a class definition
   and self.__foo has been initialized.
'''
        def get_foo(self):
                return self.__foo
        def set_foo(self, value):
                self.__foo = value
        def del_foo(self):
                del self.__foo
        foo = property(fget=get_foo, fset=set_foo, fdel=del_foo, doc="foo")








From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep  9 10:27:41 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:27:41 -0400
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
In-Reply-To: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>; from axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com on Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 02:45:54PM +0200
References: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <20030909102741.A24609@cerberus.liberty>

* Axel Straschil (axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com) wrote:

<snip>

> I've test.xml, test.xsl or two vars with the code
> and wan't to transform it. 
> Google just helped me for C ...


This code used to work (kinda ugly, though - sorry):


            from Ft.Xml.Xslt.Processor import Processor
            import Ft.Xml.InputSource 
            ##I was working with a DOM object here
            xml_data = dom.toxml()
            processor = Processor()
            f = open("rmkr.xsl",'r')
            xsl_data = f.read()
            f.close()
            processor.appendStylesheet(Ft.Xml.InputSource.DefaultFactory.fromString(xsl_data, "uri"))
            result = processor.run(Ft.Xml.InputSource.DefaultFactory.fromString(str(xml_data), "uri"))
            processor.reset()
            result_html = os.path.join(result_dir, "%s.html" % outfile_prefix)
            htmlfile = open(result_html, "w")
            htmlfile.write(result)
            htmlfile.close()

I haven't tested it recently to see if it still works.  It worked with FT under Python 2.1.


Jeremy Jones




From gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net  Mon Sep  8 15:54:29 2003
From: gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net (Gary Feldman)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:54:29 GMT
Subject: IDLE doesn't rerun PYTHONSTARTUP on restart
Message-ID: <clmplv8gclagqpra82rap55silre9rmlbp@4ax.com>

I do some setup with a .pythonrc file executed via the PYTHONSTARTUP
environment variable (on MS Windows).  This works fine when I first start
IDLE (contrary to some notes in the archives that indicate I need to use
IDLESTARTUP instead).  However, when I restart the shell, it isn't run.

Are there any workarounds for this?

Thanks,
Gary



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Wed Sep  3 18:11:09 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:11:09 GMT
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com> <vqOdnRuMAaBofMiiRVn-hg@giganews.com> <Gtmdnc6WsOhQaciiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3f566672.342116427@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:03:57 -0500, "A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca>
wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:40:48 +0100, 
> > If it's too much, buy it second-hand.  It's a good book, and although
> > plenty of it is just common sense, it's the type of common sense that's
> > easy to miss :)
> 
> Isn't it mostly concerned with C, though?  

Not really, he gives examples in BASIC, ADA, Pascal and Fortran
as well as C./C++ The latter pair dominate as a reflection on
where the industry was in 1992. But the basic tenets apply
regardless of language - code layout, variable naming, control
structures etc.

Code Complete is essential reading for any prpfessional
programmer IMHO, but it may not be essential for non pros...

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 13:30:20 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:30:20 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
In-Reply-To: <bl1iq3$ss$01$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <bl1iq3$ss$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <MI_cb.75294$PD3.4794043@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Nicolas Fleury wrote:
> 
> 
>>I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For
>>example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered
>>incomplete?
> 
> 
> Did you know about (...)?

Actually, no.  But it's still not what I'm looking for.  It's just that 
I'm used to languages where I can put my code on multiple easily to make 
lines shorter.  As John pointed, it's possible to add () to print.  I 
just discovered that it can be done with return also.  I wonder how to 
remove the need for \ in that example:

     parser.StartElementHandler = \
         lambda name, attrs: \
             GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs)

Regards,

Nicolas




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 00:22:16 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 00:22:16 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
Message-ID: <bjebpo$h85$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom at 216.77.188.17>,
rt lange  <whiteywidow at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>came across this page searching feedster.
>dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
>but the mockups look very nice.

Currently just a proposal.  If you care about this subject, subscribe to
the mailing list at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-redesign
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From lizard0000092 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 11:07:30 2003
From: lizard0000092 at yahoo.com (Gabby)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 08:07:30 -0700
Subject: Python 2.1 Compilation error - can't find krb5.h
Message-ID: <83bb8ac6.0309170707.6ab0e8ae@posting.google.com>

I am attempting to compile python 2.1 from the source on a RedHat 9.0
system.  The problem is that a openssl header file (kssl.h) requires
krb5.h which isn't in the usual place (/usr/include).  Instead krb5.h
gets installed at usr/kerberos/include.  The openssl version is
0.9.7a-2.  When I build python, the ./configure works fine but the
make' has problems building the _socket extension.  The beginning of
the error message is pasted below.  How do I let python know where to
find the krb5.h file?


In file included from /usr/include/openssl/ssl.h:179,
from /home/merlin/Python-2.1.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:196:
/usr/include/openssl/kssl.h:72:18: krb5.h: No such file or directory
In file included from /usr/include/openssl/ssl.h:179,
from /home/merlin/Python-2.1.2/Modules/socketmodule.c:196:



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep  6 10:28:46 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:28:46 GMT
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <yam6b.22363$hE5.822153@news1.tin.it>

Michael Peuser wrote:
   ...
> There is no linear scaling in these issues. It is of no importance whether
> a word processor takes 0.1 sec instead of 0.01 for some operations. It is
> when it takes 5 sec instead of 0.5. 

True, and exactly the same observation applies to most programs: there
are thresholds of response time below which it's indifferent to go; if
the program's response time becomes lower than the threshold, then in
some cases the program will suddenly become useless, in others it will
just decrease in usefulness gradually as it gets slower and slower.

However, response time is roughly HALF of the picture: the other half
is throughput -- amount of work done (perhaps in the background) per
unit of time.  This issue is most important for programs that can
serve multiple users simultaneously, but even for a program and a
machine dedicated to a single user it is still meaningful, as it may
determine, for example, the overall size of document that the program
is able to process in some way before the processing time hits the
applicable threshold.

Moore's Law, which was being discussed here, is crucial to both sides
of the picture -- getting response time under that key threshold AND
enhancing throughput.

> The issues with hard real time
> programs are obvious. 

They're not very different from those outlined above, except that
(by definition of "hard") the time to consider must be a provable
boundary rather than some central indicator such as 3 sigma -- a
response 1 microsec too slow in one case in 100 makes a hard real
time program totally unusable while it would minimally impact the
usefulness of most "normal" programs.


> Most code is not written for home applications or
> some esoteric operating systems as windows but for telecomunication,
> industry microcontrollers, car applications,....

Wrong, just like most assertions you make.  Where do you get your
numbers from?!  Business software expenditure in the UK in 2001, for 
example, was for 42% in services, 38% in transportation and 
communication, only 16% in manufacturing and construction (sorry, 
not sure where the remaining 4% ended up -- check it out on the UK
government official statistics site, www.statistics.gov.uk).  And
note that even for the sectors of communication and manufacturing
only a _fraction_ can possibly have been spent on hard real-time
development -- such business sectors use databases, word processors
and the like just like any othere.  So, offhand, I'd put HRT at
*MAYBE* 25% of business software expenditures, generously.  When
you consider consumer software expenditure, AND all the software
that is not accounted for as "expenditure" (such as most open
source software), I think you'll be lucky to find that as much
as TEN PERCENT of software development falls into those areas
which you grandly proclaim include "most code".  HA.

I hope this helps readers of this thread assess the overall
reliability of your many unsupported assertions.


>> Python is an order of magnitude easier to learn than C++, but it
>> brings really significant programmer-efficiency benefits.  As a
>> result, the argument about training simply doesn't stand up: the costs
>> are lower than the benefits even on a short timescale.
> 
> I know this argument well and have repeated it myself in the days of
> Pascal and  Algol68. Few have listened.....

On Algol68, I would hope so -- that's basically how Pascal was born,
by Wirth slamming the door on the Algol standardization committee as
he realized they'd gone bonkers, and going back to simplicity.

On Pascal, they may well not have listened to YOU (unsurprising,
given the quality of your assertions as above evidenced), but they
did look at reality and it did matter -- for a while, Turbo Pascal
was the leading software development environment for PC's, and it
segued right into the Object Pascal that underpins Delphi, still
quite a viable tool (including its Kylix incarnation for Linux).

Pascal hobbled itself by not developing viable standards, so that
choosing Pascal basically meant chaining yourself to one supplier,
and by not growing up towards application development needs (by
the addition of such indispensable features for the field as
garbage collection).  But it still got its niche and is anything
but forgotten.  Turbo Pascal was the tool used to teach some
programming to both of my kids in elementary school, for example
(it did bring back fond memories of the early '80s, when I was
considered the foremost expert of Turbo Pascal 1.0 on IBM's
internal VNET usenet-like network;-).


> Programmers are generally not trained in their compyna, thea are hired
> including their special language skills.

Most often they're hired -- for reason that may include special skills --
then (in Europe, at least) they stay on and do get training (there are 
lots of gov't and EU subsidies to encourage companies to offer training 
to their employees, incidentally).  But it doesn't much matter if the
training is provided by their company (with or without gov't help), by
the government directly through extended schooling, by the employee
himself investing time and/or money in his or her own skills: in any
case, a programmer these days WILL be using different languages between
the time they start working in their '20s and the time they retire in
their '60s, far more often than not.


>> Total costs are exactly the issue -- the contention is that use of
>> languages like Python really does have a significant impact on that.
> 
> This argument had been used by the most ambitious software tool project of
> the last century, which was DoD's Ada. Very few people will ever believe
> something like that again ;-)

Once again a false assertion: if lots of people had not believed (for
example) about that promise for Java, then Java would never have taken
off (well after Ada's disappointments).  Sure, in the SW industry more
than in most others people have formed a callus against wild promises
for still-on-paper tools.  Python's advantage is that it's a mature,
stable language, and has already been around enought to prove itself
many times over, as the Python Success Stories begin to document.


>> > This is an important  factor. However all investigations show that
>> > programmer's productivity is an unmeasurable quantity.
>>
>> How would an empirical investigation show such a thing?
> 
> Alex gave a hint to a German study. I think he was refering to:
> http://www.ipd.uka.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprtTR.pdf

Yes, that's one presentation of Prechelt's study, and it shows
exactly the reverse of your claim: language choice DOES affect
programmer productivity.


Alex




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 03:44:46 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:44:46 +0100
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <3f71ad83_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
 <Tnmcb.2151$RW4.8@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
 <3f736cad_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
 <%nNcb.3635$RW4.47@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <rqKL9KAu5+c$EwjN@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <%nNcb.3635$RW4.47 at newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Andrew
Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> writes
>Tina Li:
>> The lag is *perceivable* (this is what I meant; sorry) by a human user so
>it's slower.
>
>Yup, that's what I meant.  Too many people make theoretical
>arguments for why to choose one (complicated) approach
>over a simpler one on the basis of performance, when it turns
>out performance isn't the issue.  My appreciation goes out to you
>for doing it the right way.
>
>You may also want to look at pyRXP from ReportLab.
>However, there seems to be some drastic problems on their
>site -- links on reportlab.com fail and reportlab.org goes
>to pair.com's site placeholder page.


yup we're reassembling everything again .... sigh :(

New more dynamic confusion ......

>
>It's a very fast XML parser for Python.
>
>> I in fact tried that before but the over-limit error still happened. So
>it's
>> not just the non-greedy .*? that's causing the problem. Hmm.
>
>No, I don't think it is.  The stack space increases by one for
>each ambiguity and the .*? should only produce one ambiguity.
>Usually there's a stack problem only if you have an ambiguity
>or empty match inside a repeat, and I didn't see that in your
>pattern.
>
>If you get really interested in tracking this down, you might look
>around for some of the GUI regexp debugging tools.  There's
>one in ActiveState's product, as I recall.  Err, but it's based on
>Perl's regexp parser and won't handle (?P<>)
>
>(I do have an experimental pure-Python regexp engine that
>I would offer for debugging, but it doesn't handle .*? yet and
>needs a rewrite before it does.)
>
>> It only handles tags without space because all tags are
>> guaranteed to be generated without space.
>
>Sure.  All I was saying was that if you're going to code for
>a specific layout then you don't need to be as general.
>
>You might even consider using "[^\n]*\n{5}" if you just
>want to skip 5 lines.
>
>                    Andrew
>                    dalke at dalkescientific.com
>P.S.
>  If you are doing anything open-sourceish, or using
>open source in bioinformatics, structural biology, and
>related fields, and will be at ISMB in Edinborough next
>year, you might consider attending the Bioinformatics
>Open Source Conference.
>
>

-- 
Robin Becker



From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 11 22:08:18 2003
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 19:08:18 -0700
Subject: Learning Python, 2'nd Edition, O'Reilly
References: <8e6e8e5d.0309101814.393a8ed0@posting.google.com> <ec0babcc.0309111248.54925be8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8e6e8e5d.0309111808.762db6f7@posting.google.com>

Thank you so much for your kind reply, Mr. Lutz. I look forward to the
new edition of Learning Python eagerly. I know it will become a
classic snapshot of a most significant time in Python's history, and
will help to further popularize the language.

Of course, Python in a Nutshell also, already, documents most of
Python's newer features, and I am most profitably continuing to peruse
both my copy of the Nutshell and my copy of the Cookbook, so I will
not be wasting my (little but precious) free time until the Learning
2'nd Edition arrives.



From alessandro at sephiroth.it  Mon Sep 22 05:11:32 2003
From: alessandro at sephiroth.it (Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth*)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:11:32 GMT
Subject: py2exe: dynamic module does not define init function
Message-ID: <81zbb.99124$hE5.3508075@news1.tin.it>

hi, i have already problems using py2exe..
i'm using python 2.2, wxPython and audiere for a little mp3 player..

once I've build the exe with py2exe, when launching the application:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 9, in ?
  File "imputil.pyc", line 103, in _import_hook
  File "<string>", line 52, in _import_top_module
  File "imputil.pyc", line 216, in import_top
  File "imputil.pyc", line 267, in _import_one
  File "<string>", line 163, in get_code
ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initaudiere)

Sincerely I don't understand the error message..
can someone explain me the message and if there's a solution?


-- 

Alessandro Crugnola [sephiroth]
Flash | PHP Developer
http://www.sephiroth.it

Team Macromedia Volunteer for Flash
http://www.macromedia.com/go/team

Flash-php mailing list
http://www.flash-php.it/index.php?ml=fpcoders&action=subscribe





From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 27 05:01:19 2003
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 02:01:19 -0700
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com> <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu> <mailman.1064330017.10730.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0309270101.65a69a38@posting.google.com>

Shu-Hsien Sheu <sheu at bu.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064330017.10730.python-list at python.org>...
> catching multiple errorrs. However, problems occur if the criteria is 
> composed of "or" rather than "and". For instance:
> 
> if (a in b) or (c in b):
>     *do something
> 
> try:
>     b.index(a)
>     b.index(c)
>     *do something
> except ValueError:
>    pass

For the "or" case, actually the exception trick works rather well.
Usually people raise events by hand:

class Found(Exception): pass

try:
    if a in b: raise Found
    if c in b: raise Found
except Found:
    do something

Of course, one can supply additional information, as in:

try:
    if a in b: raise Found('a in b')
    if c in b: raise Found('c in b')
except Found, e:
    print str(e)

Hung Jung



From gventer at africonnect.com  Tue Sep  2 07:47:30 2003
From: gventer at africonnect.com (Gerhard Venter)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:47:30 +0100
Subject: win32all for 2.3 
Message-ID: <3F548352.7040408@africonnect.com>

Hi

I need to get *win32all* for 2.3 quite urgently.  It should be at 
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html
However, the starship site seems to have disappeared, even from DNS.  Is 
there any other way I could get the file?

Best regards
Gerhard








From lutz.horn at fiz-karlsruhe.de  Fri Sep  5 03:17:49 2003
From: lutz.horn at fiz-karlsruhe.de (Lutz Horn)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:17:49 GMT
Subject: Text file extract
References: <1PudndLL4fUZWMqiU-KYuA@kconline.com>
Message-ID: <bj9dat$h0cnd$1@ID-32301.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi Andy,

* "Andy" <Hoosbruin at Kconline.com> [05 Sep 2003]:
> RECORD 1)  ABCD,666,TOM,4.00,9/1/03
> RECORD 2)  TYTY,666,TIM,4.00,9/1/03
> RECORD 3)  ABCD,666,BILL,4.00,9/1/03
> RECORD 4)  XXXX,666,TOM,4.00,9/1/03
> 
> All the fields will be comma separated and the 3rd field will
> contain the record I will use to split.

To split a string use it's split() method. If the records are in a file 
named "records.txt" and for each distinct value of the third field all 
matching records should be written to a file file named as the value 
with ".txt" appended, I'd do something like:


# read all records from the input file
records = open("records.txt").readlines()

# create a dict to hold the output files. value => file
outfiles = {}

# loop over all records
for record in records:
    # split the record and extract the third field (index 2)
    field3 = record.split(",")[2]
    
    # if the value of the field hasn't been encountered before,
    # open an output file and store it in the dict using
    # the value as the key.
    if field3 not in outfiles.keys():
        outfile = open(field3 + ".txt", "w")
        outfiles[field3] = outfile

    # write the record to the proper output file
    outfiles[field3].write(record)

# clos all output files
for outfile in outfiles.values():
    outfile.close()


With your data this produces three files: BILL.txt, TIM.txt, and 
TOM.txt containing 1, 1, and 2 records.

I leave it to you to open the files in proper subdirectories :-)

Regards
Lutz
-- 
no sig



From webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com  Tue Sep 23 18:26:32 2003
From: webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:26:32 +0200
Subject: a little OT: how to handle this email list?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064323412.13237.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064323412.13237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F70C898.9080700@beyond-thoughts.com>

Hi Matthew Wilson,

I have a pop3-mailbox and finally store the whole Python-List locally on 
my Computer hoping that the Mozilla-Maiil can handle this amount of 
emails. Maybe there's a feature in your IMAP-Client to "store local and 
del from server".

Just killing threads (as mentioned in other answers) seems OK to me, 
because you can stil get those threads on gmane.org


Christoph Becker-Freyseng





From glingl at aon.at  Mon Sep  8 08:45:02 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:45:02 +0200
Subject: GIFs Using Tkinter
Message-ID: <3f5c7a2f$0$13788$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

I'm trying to use recipe 9.5 from Python Cookbook, which suggests
to read gifs from files using base64.encodestring in order to embed 
those images into my sourcecode.

I've prepared some 20 gifs with Photoshop which are all merely
rotated versions of some "master"-gif. (They all are produced in
exactly the same way and have (255,255,255) as transparent color.)

They all can be used as Tkinter PhotoImages with the file-option
perfectly well.

However, if I try to use the data-option with strings constructed
from those same gifs according to the recipe mentioned above,
I observe, that among those gif-images
(1) some can be displayed correctly (more than 50%)
(2) some are corrupted and are displayed with stripes or other
artefacts.
(3) and some result in strings only a few characters long
which cannot be interpreted as image-data at all.

What could be the reason for this annoying behaviour and how
can I avoid it.

Thanks in advance

Gregor




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Sep 17 08:08:48 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:08:48 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <3F67D36B.80709@sci.fi>
References: <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net> <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org> <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net> <20030916211148.GD29089@unpythonic.net> <3F67D36B.80709@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <20030917120842.GA5446@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 06:22:19AM +0300, Harri Pesonen wrote:
> But wouldn't it be better if Python had real multitasking? Comments like 
> the above mean that you accept Python as it is, fine. But usually people 
> want to make things better when they see that something can be improved. 
> If my roof is leaking, I have two choices: fix it or accept it. If I am 
> able to fix it, then I'll probably do it.
> 
> The old code base really is the problem here. If Python threads really 
> run at the same time in the future, how many current applications stop 
> working because they depend on the fact that only one thread runs at any 
> given time, and do not acquire and release locks as needed? On the other 
> hand, my suggestion probably means that we couldn't have a threading 
> module compatible with thread or threading anyhow (we could have 
> freethreading, with specific functions for inter-thread communication).

I don't think "the roof is leaking".  In the current situation, users
can write threads in the cases where they make sense (and easily share
any data without jumping through hoops) and even derive a performance
benefit when the threads' work is done without the GIL held.  Or, they
can use multiple processes with explicit data sharing, and derive a
performance benefit even when each process does its work with the GIL
held.

In your situation, the first paradigm becomes impossible, and the second
paradigm has been modeled with a "shared nothing" approach which adds
complexity to Python to achieve with threads what the operating system
already offers using processes!

Keep in mind that probably more than of 99.9% of machines out there
have only one CPU anyway, so all you re-claim is the GIL overhead if you
remove it.  Yay, a 2%* performance increase for a huge loss in flexibility.
And processes still win, because you can probably easily hack out the
thread/threading modules, turn the GIL operations into no-ops, and use
fork() to get that 2%* performance increase.

Let me know when you have benchmark figures to the contrary.

Jeff
* Number picked out of the air




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 13:19:35 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:19:35 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
In-Reply-To: <vn8r00p0brg98c@news.supernews.com>
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <Xns9402A53AD8C02duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <vn8r00p0brg98c@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Hy_cb.75290$PD3.4793996@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

John Roth wrote:

> "Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> And you can parenthesize a surprisingly large number of places. One
> that I learned just recently was that the entire operand string of the
> print statement can be put into parenthesis.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
print (1,2) prints a tuple while print 1,2 prints a different thing.

Regards,

Nicolas




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep  9 15:15:48 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:15:48 -0700
Subject: Jython class names
References: <zsNtMLAchYX$EwY3@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <bjk2fk$38o$07$1@news.t-online.com> <WYZkBWAPDcX$Ewf4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F5E26E4.EE26660C@alcyone.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> I just tried [in Jython] and wow
> 
> >>>> class C: pass
> >...
> >>>> C().__class__.__name__ is C.__name__
> >True
> 
> it doesn't work

The obvious question might be why you're expecting it to work.  Why are
you testing string equality with the is operator?  Test it with the
equality operator, ==.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Fri Sep 12 07:38:28 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:08:28 +0530
Subject: python program not running from different folders
In-Reply-To: <001701c3791f$e80fea10$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro>; from jboti@integrasoft.ro on Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 02:20:43PM +0300
References: <001701c3791f$e80fea10$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro>
Message-ID: <20030912170828.A4664@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 02:20:43PM +0300, Jozsa Boti wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I have a strange problem: I wrote a program in python, and I get an error: ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initESSClientAPI) but only if I run the program in certain folders. The same program runs without any error from other folders. Any ideas?
>

As u have described it seems that the folder from which u are trying to run the
script contains some dll/so which have the same name as one of the modules u are
using in your script. 

eg. like in your script u have:

import xyz
#call some function from xyz
xyz.funct()

here xyz is some python module u are using.

but as the error message says it may be that the particular folder from which
the script gives ImportError contains some dll/so with the same name i.e. 
xyz.dll or xyz.so. 

Still it is just a wild guess :-)

Regards
Vivek Kumar




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep 22 19:57:49 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:57:49 -0400
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com>

"Shu-Hsien Sheu" <sheu at bu.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> For example, which one of the following would be more efficient, or
,
> moreover, more pythonic?
>
> if aa[:3] == 'abc':

This creates and deletes a temporary object.

> if aa.startswith('abc'):

This makes a function call.  As Bob showed for his system, the two
overheads are about the same for a three char prefix.  If one were
checking a 30000 byte prefix, the call might win.

Terry J. Reedy





From mitchchapman at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 13 09:16:01 2003
From: mitchchapman at earthlink.net (Mitch Chapman)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 07:16:01 -0600
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <16226.9487.204094.248590@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <6BB6268D-E5EC-11D7-A7C2-000393D443CE@earthlink.net>

On Friday, September 12, 2003, at 01:57  PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Mitch> At IPC8 Greg Wilson, then of the Software Carpentry project,
>     Mitch> noted that the GIL made it hard to write multi-threaded 
> Python
>     Mitch> apps which could take advantage of multi-processor systems. 
>  He
>     Mitch> argued that this would limit Python's appeal in some 
> segments of
>     Mitch> the scientific community.
>
> This is a known issue.

For example, it was discussed at IPC8 ;)

> Thusfar, it hasn't seemed to slow down Python's
> acceptance by the scientific community all that much.

Good point.

>     Mitch> Perhaps those who find the subject important have left the
>     Mitch> community?  Perhaps they've adopted kludgey workarounds?
>
> Or perhaps they are happy to have tools like scipy and MayaVi to make 
> their
> jobs easier.

No doubt.  I'm among those happy to have access to scipy.weave, for
example.  But I also wish for better thread scalability to make my job
easier.

Unlike Andrew I don't think the lack of maintenance for 1.4's free
threading packages is due to any perception that threading performance
is unimportant.  It seems more likely that the packages were not updated
because they proved not to solve the performance problems, and that no
alternatives have emerged because the problem is hard to solve.

So, if Harri Pesonen has ideas for achieving better thread scalability,
I want to encourage him to develop them rather than to suggest such
an effort is unimportant to the community.

> Nobody has claimed that it isn't a problem for some people.

I read Andrew's comment as meaning that he believed nobody in the
community thought scalable threading was particularly important. In
order for that to be true, something like Greg Wilson's prediction, that
many who would otherwise have found Python appealing would have turned
to other solutions, would have to have come to pass. ("Perhaps those...
have left the community?")

Or else, as I noted, people might have found kludgey workarounds.  Or as
had happened in my company, they might have deferred some performance
problems which could have been addressed by scalable threading.  Both of
which are consistent with your observation:

> It's maybe less
> of a problem than it appears at first though.

Having said all of that, it looks like this thread originated on python-
dev, rather than on c.l.py where I found it.  So I'm probably missing
some reasons for what appears to be a dismissive attitude toward Harri's
efforts.  I'll go read the python-dev archives.

--
Mitch





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Sep  2 03:48:28 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:48:28 +0200
Subject: printer friendly python tutorial
References: <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53> <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53> <YTb4b.235097$It4.112333@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20030901234513.02e92120@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <bj1i0i$uj7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Bob Gailer wrote:

> >>does anyone know where i can find a printer friendly version of the
> >>python tutorial release 2.3?
> >never mind i found it?
>
> Where? We'd like to know too.

http://www.python.org => Documentation => Download
Current Documentation (first link on page) =>

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/download.html

where the table on the top of the page contains download
links for HTML, PDF, Postscript, GNU info, iSilo, and LaTeX
versions of the docs, in ZIP, GZip, and BZip2 archives.

</F>







From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 19:02:11 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 00:02:11 +0100
Subject: Extracting TIFF from emails
References: <bc258e66.0309030604.1fdc0e8c@posting.google.com> <87y8x654qk.fsf@pobox.com> <bc258e66.0309031100.4c9b2810@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87llt5fpcc.fsf@pobox.com>

ryan at ryanswift.com (Ryan Swift) writes:

> I have found the email module,

I'm not 100% sure you have.  My 'the email module' I meant 'the module
named "email" from the Python standard library'.

> I am using 2.2.2.
> 
> This is my code:

No it's not -- where are the imports?  This isn't C, we don't like to
guess these things :-)

[...]
> AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'walk'
> 
> Am I not properly using walk?

lists have no walk method!

Presumably you thought you had something other than a list, but you don't.


John



From john at rygannon.com  Tue Sep 23 07:52:19 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:52:19 GMT
Subject: ANN: Rekall V2.1.0 beta2
Message-ID: <3f703401$0$10975$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi

We are please to announce that we have just started beta testing Rekall
V2.1.0
beta2. You can download a demo version from either
http://www.totalrekall.co.uk or http://www.rygannon.com
.
If we don't come across any major bugs in this beta release then a full
stable version will be put out within the next two to three week. All
planned new features are now complete and working

What is Rekall?

Rekall is a programmable database independant GUI database client, which can
be considered a cheaper alternative to MS Access
Rekall runs on all the major Linux distributions and Windows. A version for
Mac X is being worked on. Rekall includes plugin drivers for xBase,
PostgreSQL, and MySQL as standard. Additional native code drivers are
available for DB2, Oracle9i and ODBC

-- 
Best Regards
John



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Thu Sep 11 06:05:44 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 03:05:44 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <Ft5S/kKkX87K092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1061926129.29249.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0309110205.c885e29@posting.google.com>

> David Mertz wrote:
> > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
> > list.

GNU Emacs + python-mode is my favorite.
Apart from that I use:

1. XEmacs + python-mode, (not as good as Emacs + python-mode)
2. IDLE

-Anand



From nomail at nomail.com  Wed Sep 10 11:10:13 2003
From: nomail at nomail.com (Michael Schmitt)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:10:13 +0200
Subject: Reportlab Image object opens filehandles
References: <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de> <3f5f36de$1@news.highway1.com.au>
Message-ID: <bjnesm$2qbur$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Tim Hoffman wrote:

> Have a look at limit (or in csh ulimit)
> 
> 256 open files is the default limit for a user/process. (all about
> conserving resources) you can make this bigger (much bigger ;-) assuming
> you have permissions.
> 
> Rgds
> 
Hello Tim.
unfortunately changing this limit is not an option for me.

Thanks.
Regards, 
Michael



From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep  9 01:41:05 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 05:41:05 GMT
Subject: ANN: vb2Py 0.2 - VB to Python Conversion
Message-ID: <RJd7b.19480$5g7.11205@twister.austin.rr.com>

Version 0.2 of vb2py has been released.

What is vb2py?
==============

vb2py is a toolkit to aid in the conversion of Visual Basic projects to 
Python. The aim of the conversion is to match, as closely as possible, 
the original VB applications both in terms of code and form behaviour. 
Version 0.2 comprises a basic layout converter (converting to 
PythonCard) with a comprehensive code translation. The project roadmap 
(http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/roadmap.htm) shows the project's 
development timeline.

Converting VB to Python turns your VB projects into cross platform 
developments and allows full access to all Python's extensive library of 
modules.


What's new in v0.2
==================

The key development in v0.2 is the inclusion of the full VB code parser 
and converter. Whereas v0.1 was just a form layout converter, v0.2 
parses all the VB code and translates it to the equivalent Python code. 
All major code constructs from VB are covered (Sub, Fn, If, While, For, 
Select, With, Classes, Properties, Types, etc) and most instrinsic 
functions and constants are implemented as Python equivalents.

The other major addition to v0.2 is the inclusion of a GUI to enable the 
progress of the conversion to be monitored and tweaked using the options 
system. The GUI is a PythonCard application running on top of the main 
vb2py library. The GUI is not required to convert VB code, a fully 
functioning command line alternative is available.

Linux is now supported (this was badly broken in v0.1!)


Limitations of v0.2
===================

- Form layout translation is still at the v0.1 level. (target v0.3)
- Control event mapping is still primitive (target v0.3)
- Error handling, ByRef argument passing, Iterable classes are not 
currently supported (target v0.4)


Getting the Software
====================

* The main website: http://vb2py.sourceforge.net
* Download this version: http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/downloads.htm
* Documentation: http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/documentation.htm


Requirements
============

* Python 2.2 or greater
* PythonCard (0.7 or greater), wxWindows
* simpleparse (2.0.1a2 or greater), mxTools
* Visual Basic is *not* required (although it would help if you had some 
VB code ...)


Licence
=======

vb2py is released under the BSD licence.


Release History
===============

0.1    (July 9, 2003) - The first release from the project - a basic 
form layout translator
0.1.1  (August 1, 2003) - A bugfix release for 0.1
0.2    (September 8, 2003) - This release


Contributors Welcome
====================

This project would not be possible without the help and support of many 
people. Anyone who wants to get involved is more than welcome to 
participate in coding, testing, giving advice, etc. Some particular 
areas of interest right now are,

- testing on large VB projects
- testing on Mac
- testing out with VBScript, VBA

In the meantime I would like to thank all those who supported and 
contributed towards the v0.2 release.

----

Paul Paterson

vb2py :: A Visual Basic to Python Conversion Toolkit
http://vb2py.sourceforge.net




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Sep 26 08:46:20 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:46:20 +0200
Subject: Where to import modules?
In-Reply-To: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3F74351C.8050507@ghaering.de>

Andreas Neudecker wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have a "style" question: Sometimes, modules will only be used in a 
> particular, optional, part of a program (function, class), that will not 
> always be used when the application is run. So I think it is better to 
> import them only there, not on the top of the file (together with the 
> other imports). Is that okay, or are there good reasons for not doing so?

That's perfectly ok, if you want/need to optimize your program startup 
time. It might also save a byte or two of memory, depending on how large 
the module is.

-- Gerhard




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 19:17:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:17:26 -0400
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <3F6F12A1.3010702@bu.edu> <mailman.1064246454.19668.python-list@python.org> <6e7b9822.0309221439.6dea760e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6F8306.1ABCC6D@engcorp.com>

Paul wrote:
> 
> However, what if you don't want case sensitivity?  For example, to
> check if a file is a jpg, I do name[-3:].lower() == 'jpg'.  This will
> work with both foo.jpg and foo.JPG.
> 
> Is this slower than name.lower().endswith('jpg')?  Is there a better
> solution altogether?

Yes, of course. :-)

import os
if os.path.splitext(name)[1].lower() == 'jpg':
    pass

That also handles the problem with files named "ThisFileIs.NotAjpg" 
being mistreated, as the other solutions do. ;-)

-Peter



From mwh at python.net  Fri Sep 26 11:34:57 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:34:57 GMT
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com> <7h3smmm2m0w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <0ck3nvoicm45kb0oon2etsucttatc3aob7@4ax.com> <7h3ad8t2k6q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <89d6nv85qdrvegiehk25rpkpirogvqspgi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3k77vo9ea.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:20:27 GMT, rumours say that Michael Hudson
> <mwh at python.net> might have written:
> 
> >PS: hp-ux/itanium appears to be utterly horked...
> 
> Thank God this is not a HP/UX then... presumably.  See PS.
> 
> PS: What is horked???

"broken".  I tried to build 2.3.1 on the HP testdrive itanium/hp-ux
machine, and the results were far from encouraging.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  [2. More type system hacking --- text/plain; type-argh.diff]
                                                  -- csr on sbcl-devel



From richie at entrian.com  Tue Sep  9 08:56:39 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:56:39 +0100
Subject: Ternery operator
In-Reply-To: <7uhrlvoduqfcg64nvccua3ee0hklrc4lb1@4ax.com>
References: <1063110398.3f5dc6fe94f18@mcherm.com> <7uhrlvoduqfcg64nvccua3ee0hklrc4lb1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9bjrlvg1jkhtt5sd9gi4rlm18cfvsoce81@4ax.com>

[Me]
> >>> def one():
> 	print 1
> 	return 1
> 
> >>> def two():
> 	print 2
> 	return 2
> 
> >>> (True and [one()] or [two()])[0]
> 1
> 1
> >>> (False and [one()] or [two()])[0]
> 2
> 2
> >>> 
> 
> So it's lazy in the sense of "will not execute the branch not taken",
> which is I'm sure what Uwe meant.  But it's also over-eager in the sense
> of "may execute the taken branch multiple times."

Duh, sorry, I still have my Monday head on.  Ignore that second sentence.
This would have been a better demonstration:

>>> def one():
	print "One"
	return 1

>>> def two():
	print "Two"
	return 2

>>> print (True and [one()] or [two()])[0]
One
1
>>> 

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 10:19:50 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:19:50 +0300
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com> <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com> <brtl7s6v.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:08 +0100, rumours say that Paul Moore
<paul.moore at atosorigin.com> might have written:

[find the end of the month]

>The best solution I could find was
>
>def month_end(dt):
>    # Get the next month
>    y, m = dt.year, dt.month
>    if m == 12:
>        y += 1
>        m = 1
>    else:
>        m += 1
>
>    # Use replace to cater for both datetime and date types. This
>    # leaves the time component of a datetime unchanged - it's
>    # arguable whether this is the right thing.
>
>    return dt.replace(year=y, month=m, day=1) - datetime.timedelta(days=1)

I sent my own version without having seen your own --and mine might seem
obfuscated, compared to yours.  Only a minor suggestion: don't use
dt.replace, use dt.__class__ instead, since you wouldn't want your
function to have side-effects (that is, don't destroy the actual object
that dt is bound to.)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Mon Sep 15 11:51:27 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:51:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: unique unions of several dict keys
Message-ID: <59256.199.169.240.132.1063641087.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-


I have several different dictionaries.  I want to make a unique list of
all the keys in all the dictionaries.  What would be the best way of doing
that?


Thanks.





From bokr at oz.net  Wed Sep 10 10:49:05 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 14:49:05 GMT
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org> <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <3F5E0171.B68BDE2F@engcorp.com> <_WydnXPHCO6oksOiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <mailman.1063134440.19659.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjndl1$qbj$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:06:22 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    amk> I envision people wanting information on a specific version first,
>    amk> only later going to the more generic items under "documentation".
>    amk> Do other people think this would be a good idea?
>
>I think docs are more important than specific versions.  Sure, the first
>time they come to the site they'll be looking for "Python 2.3".  But most
>times after that they'll want documentation.  The most frequent page I visit
>on the site is
>
>    http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/modindex.html
>
>That far outpaces any other page on the site, even the home page, so I
>bookmarked so it's one click away.
>
For the most part, I use downloaded HTML docs from my HD. And a command line
hack to search with regex the index page for links to the individual module docs
and/or launch the browser to a particular doc. E.g., (the opts handling code is a bit weird,
just a quick experiment, not meant as a model ;-)

[ 7:36] C:\pywk\clp>modoc

Usage: modoc.py [-h] [-re | -ire ] [-href] pattern
    Without opts, pattern is taken as a module name to start browser showing docs for.
    With opt(s):
      -re: pattern is taken as regex to print available matching doc names
      -ire: same as -re but case insensitive
      -href: prints doc href paths along with names found.
      -h: print this

Doc info is retrieved from the html file defined by environment name PY_DOC_INDEX,
e.g., modindex.html  and this is located (along with pages therefrom referenced)
by prefixing the string defined by PY_DOC_PREFIX, e.g., D:/Python23/Doc/ (note
forward slashing and ending slash). The ref_name_patt regex may need change if
generated documentation links change format.

[ 7:37] C:\pywk\clp>modoc -ire os
MacOS               TERMIOS             macostools          os
os.path             ossaudiodev         posix               posixfile
termios
[ 7:37] C:\pywk\clp>modoc -re os
macostools          os                  os.path             ossaudiodev
posix               posixfile           termios
[ 7:37] C:\pywk\clp>modoc os.path

(browser pops up with os.path doc).

Oh, I forgot:

[ 7:39] C:\pywk\clp>modoc -re os -href
         macostools: 'mac/module-macostools.html'
                 os: 'lib/module-os.html'
            os.path: 'lib/module-os.path.html'
        ossaudiodev: 'lib/module-ossaudiodev.html'
              posix: 'lib/module-posix.html'
          posixfile: 'lib/module-posixfile.html'
            termios: 'lib/module-termios.html'

I was thinking of expanding it to cover more of the doc hierarchy, but never got a round tuit.
In case someone want to use/improve it:
(Note the
    PY_DOC_PREFIX = os.environ.get('PY_DOC_PREFIX', r'D:/Python23/Doc/')
    PY_DOC_INDEX  = os.environ.get('PY_DOC_INDEX',  r'modindex.html')
lines, which you may want to change for your system setup).

----< modoc.py >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
# modoc.py -- quick way to get to module docs from command line
"""
Usage: modoc.py [-h] [-re | -ire ] [-href] pattern
    Without opts, pattern is taken as a module name to start browser showing docs for.
    With opt(s):
      -re: pattern is taken as regex to print available matching doc names
      -ire: same as -re but case insensitive
      -href: prints doc href paths along with names found.
      -h: print this
    
Doc info is retrieved from the html file defined by environment name PY_DOC_INDEX,
e.g., modindex.html  and this is located (along with pages therefrom referenced)
by prefixing the string defined by PY_DOC_PREFIX, e.g., D:/Python23/Doc/ (note
forward slashing and ending slash). The ref_name_patt regex may need change if
generated documentation links change format.
"""
__version__ = '0.10a'

# Original code by Bengt Richter, offered for free use, with no warranty of any kind.
# v0.1a: 20030813 13:29:40
#   + docs and untested env variable defs for doc locs
#   + using webbrowser module to start browser instead of os.system

# handy to run from c:\util\modoc.cmd wrapper, e.g.,
# @python c:\pywk\ut\modoc.py %*
import re, os, webbrowser

PY_DOC_PREFIX = os.environ.get('PY_DOC_PREFIX', r'D:/Python23/Doc/')
PY_DOC_INDEX  = os.environ.get('PY_DOC_INDEX',  r'modindex.html')

def dispmod(namex='', **opts):
    """Display module doc via browser or search names for match. See module doc."""
    page = file(PY_DOC_PREFIX+PY_DOC_INDEX).read()
    ref_name_patt = r'<dt><a href="([^"]+)"><tt class="module">([^<]+)' #XXX brittle
    rx = re.compile(ref_name_patt)
    modict = dict([(name, ref) for ref,name in rx.findall(page)])
    names = modict.keys()
    names.sort()
    if opts:
        regex = namex   # default case sensitive match
        if 're' in opts: pass
        elif 'ire' in opts:
            regex = '(?i)'+namex
        elif 'all' in opts:
            regex = None
        if regex:
            rx = re.compile(regex)
            names = list(filter(rx.search, names))
        names.sort()
        for i, name in enumerate(names):
            if 'href' in opts:
                print '%19s: %r' % (name, modict[name])
            else:
                if i and not i%4: print
                print '%-19s' % name,
    else:
        namex = namex.lower()
        for name in names:
            if name.lower() == namex:
                webbrowser.open_new('%s%s' % (PY_DOC_PREFIX, modict[name]))
                return
        raise SystemExit, 'Module "%s" not found.' % namex
        
if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    args = sys.argv[1:]
    if not args or '-h' in args: raise SystemExit, __doc__
    callargs=[]; callkw={}
    while args:
        arg = args.pop(0)
        if arg.startswith('-'):
            callkw[arg[1:]]=True
        else:
            callargs.append(arg)
    dispmod(*callargs, **callkw)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Fri Sep 26 06:31:28 2003
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 03:31:28 -0700
Subject: Compiling informxidb-1.3 on python2.2?
References: <bc2ee265.0309221612.37ed0840@posting.google.com> <slrnbmvjva.t30.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <bc2ee265.0309231414.5689a323@posting.google.com> <bc2ee265.0309251534.ca2bfcc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0309260231.54e8ef5@posting.google.com>

Hi Mick,

a while ago I managed the compilation of informixdb
'manually' without help of Makefiles or configure 
scripts or distutils for Python-2.2.1.

Basically all you need is to compile dbi.c as well as 
_informixdb.c and to link it to a shared library.
informixdb.py and _informixdb.so then has to be copied
to the proper places.

What you need as well is the help of th esql script 
provided with the informix sdk and the information
provided in the lib/config/ folder of your Python
installation (used compiler switches, libraries
for linking ...).

Run: 
  esql -e -G  -libs         _informixdb.ec  or
  esql -e -G -thread -libs  _informixdb.ec  

to get a list of the informix libraries and objectfiles
needed for linking.

Of course you need to specify the path to the informix include files
and the path to the library files as well as the library files
for compilation and linking.

There are other issues with informixdb as well:

1) DBI 1-0 interface:
   dates are limited to EPOCH (aka unix time) due
   to limitations of the DBI-1.0 specification.
2) all Informix warnings raise an error in the 
   informixdb layer. In many cases this is not
   wanted.

I can send you the patches I got from different
people/places.

Carl

cmkleffner at gmx.de

msajec at ieee.org (Mike S.) wrote in message news:<bc2ee265.0309251534.ca2bfcc at posting.google.com>...
> Well I managed to get the configure script to run:
> 
> ./configure
> loading cache ./config.cache
> checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes
> checking for python... (cached) /usr/bin/python
> checking for --with-informix... /opt/informix
> checking for esql... (cached) /opt/informix/bin/esql
> checking for --enable-thread... no
> checking for --enable-shared... yes
> creating ./config.status
> creating Makefile
> creating ext/srcdir
> creating ext/Setup
> creating ext/Makefile
> 
> But got a ton of errors when trying step 5 in Robin's list:
> 
> >>esql _informixdb.c
> 
> _informixdb.ec:48:20: Python.h: No such file or directory
> _informixdb.ec:49:24: longobject.h: No such file or directory
> In file included from _informixdb.ec:50:
> dbi.h:13: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:14: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:15: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:18: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:18: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:18: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
> dbi.h:19: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:19: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:19: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
> dbi.h:20: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:20: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:20: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
> dbi.h:21: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:21: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:21: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
> dbi.h:35: parse error before '*' token
> dbi.h:35: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
> 
> 
> Make sense to anyone??
> 
> 
> msajec at ieee.org (Mike S.) wrote in message news:<bc2ee265.0309231414.5689a323 at posting.google.com>...
> > > 2. Untar, run configure
> > Unfortunately, the trouble starts here at step 2.  By any chance do
> > you have both python1.5 and python2.2 installed?
> > 
> > root at pe informixdb-1.3]# ./configure
> > loading cache ./config.cache
> > checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes
> > checking for python... (cached) /usr/bin/python
> > checking for --with-informix... /opt/informix
> > checking for esql... (cached) /opt/informix/bin/esql
> > checking for --enable-thread... no
> > checking for --enable-shared... yes
> > creating ./config.status
> > creating Makefile
> > creating ext/srcdir
> > creating ext/Setup
> > cp: cannot stat `/usr/lib/python1.5/config/Makefile.pre.in': No such
> > file or directory
> > creating ext/Makefile
> > make: ./Makefile.pre.in: No such file or directory
> > make: *** No rule to make target `./Makefile.pre.in'.  Stop.
> > [root at pe informixdb-1.3]#
> > :
> > 
> > Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbmvjva.t30.rmunn at rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>...
> > > Mike S. <msajec at ieee.org> wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone had success compiling the informixdb-1.3 module under
> > > > python 2.2?  It seems the absense of makefile.pre.in in python 2.2
> > > > causes the break under py2.2. Is there an easy way around this.  I've
> > > > heard rumors of a manual method, but have been unable to track down
> > > > details.  Any help is very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Mike
> > > 
> > > Here's the step-by-step notes I wrote for myself when I had to do
> > > exactly that back in May:
> > > 
> > > Steps in installing the informixdb module:
> > > 
> > > 1. Download informixdb source from
> > >    http://starship.python.net/crew/sturner/informixdb.html
> > > 2. Untar, run configure
> > > 3. Edit ext/Makefile: change CFLAGS (line 100) to include
> > >    -I${INFORMIXDIR}/incl/esql
> > > 4. Cd into ext directory
> > > 5. Run "esql _informix.ec" to generate _informix.c file
> > > 6. Cd back into parent directory
> > > 7. Run make
> > > 8. Copy informixdb.py and ext/_informixdb.so into
> > >    /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/
> > > 
> > > I hope this helps. I did this install on a Red Hat machine that had the
> > > Informix SDK installed, so I had the esql command available. If you
> > > don't have esql available, then I'm not sure what you'll need to do.
> > > 
> > > Good luck!



From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Thu Sep 25 16:27:24 2003
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 13:27:24 -0700
Subject: Newbie: Changing a string to a class attribute.
References: <33fbf9ec.0309241210.7acfddb9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <21064255.0309251227.76336087@posting.google.com>

jacobsmail at gmx.net (Jacob H) wrote in message news:<33fbf9ec.0309241210.7acfddb9 at posting.google.com>...
> This is a very simple problem and I'm sure the answer is a no brainer.
> However my brain can't see the answer. ;)
> 
> Given code like this:
> 
> def exec_method(object, method):
>     # object is an instantiated object, e.g. log
>     # method is a string that matches a method of object, e.g.
> "update"
>     # code stuff here that calls object.method, e.g. log.update()
>     
> What is the best way to turn method, a string, into a valid reference
> to the actual class method? My first thought was eval(). But I can't
> do this:
> 
>     eval("class.method()")
> 

You're quite close!

> Eval will look for a method actually called method() and there isn't
> one. What's a good solution for this? Heck, for all I know, Python
> implicitly provides functionality to solve this problem. Can anyone
> help? :)
> 
> Jake

>>> class LOG:
... 	def up_date(self):
... 		print 'update'
... 
>>> log=LOG()
>>> 
>>> def exec_method(object, method):
... 	eval('object.'+method) ()
... 
>>> exec_method(log,'up_date')
update
>>> 
>>> 

Hope that helps.
Regards
Peter



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Sep  6 17:26:29 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:26:29 -0700
Subject: Newbiequestion about lists and arrays....
References: <9193c0d1.0309061320.a0f430f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5A5105.66F55B20@alcyone.com>

Michael wrote:

> I would like to use an multidimensional matrix (3D or more) with
> numbers (int:s and float:s). Could i use lists or arrays? How can i
> retrieve a single element out of a list thats already in an other list
> thats already in an other list (and so on...)

It's because Python doesn't have copy semantics.  You're building a list
of lists of lists, some of whose elements are references to the same
list.

To ensure that these lists are all distinct objects, and thus giving you
the expected behavior, don't use references to previous objects; create
new ones instead:

>>> c = []
>>> for x in range(3):
...  xs = []
...  for y in range(3):
...   ys = []   
...   for z in range(3):
...    ys.append([1, 2, 3])
...   xs.append(ys)
...  c.append(xs)
... 
>>> c
[[[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]], [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]]], [[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]], [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]]],
[[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]], [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]]]]
>>> c[1][1][1] = 888
>>> c
[[[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]], [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]]], [[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
[[1, 2, 3], 888, [1, 2, 3]], [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]]], [[[1,
2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]], [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]], [[1, 2,
3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]]]]

There are other ways to do the job, of course, involing say list
comprehensions.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You're wasting time / Asking what if / You linger on too long
\__/  Chante Moore



From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Thu Sep 11 03:43:11 2003
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:43:11 +0200
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F8742.C1C66903@engcorp.com> <3F5F95B9.A8CB5786@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <3F60278F.7EB2FC30@jandecaluwe.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> >
> >
> > Queue.Queue.get() ...
> >
> 
> That looks good.  But that needs a thread to block, right?
> A generator manages to run without being a thread (at least
> overtly).  If we have the suck() statement, we also need
> something that's the opposite of a generator (a Sucker?)
> and something that's the opposite of an iterator (a Suckee?).
> I'm starting to get an idea why this is completely not all
> there.
> 
> The main question this raises is "How lightweight are threads?"
> Can I program with dozens or hundreds of python threads in a
> program (for example under Windows) and not notice that this is
> an inefficient or inept coding style?
> 
> Al

You may want to check out how such things are done with my MyHDL 
package. The target application is hardware design, but the idea 
is more probably general.

    http://jandecaluwe.com/Tools/MyHDL/manual/model-obj.html

Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
    Bored with EDA the way it is? Check this:
    http://jandecaluwe.com/Tools/MyHDL/Overview.html



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Sep  7 07:21:40 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 07:21:40 -0400
Subject: Anyone ever overridden a builtin by accident?
References: <c09b237b.0309061922.10d74b39@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlm5601fck8hcb@news.supernews.com>

"John Ladasky" <ladasky at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:c09b237b.0309061922.10d74b39 at posting.google.com...
> Hi there,
>
> Just wanted to share a frustrating programming bug that, when I
> figured it out, made me gasp, and then laugh.
>
> In one of my programs I wrote...
>
> c = max(a,b)
>
> ...and I was getting the most annoying, frustrating error message:
> "type 'int' is not callable."
>
> What the heck?  I wasn't calling an integer, I was calling the
> __builtin__ function, max()!
>
> I dropped out of my regular editor (SciTE), opened IDLE, and tried
> typing in bits of my code, including the call to max().  Everything
> seemed to work fine.
>
> Then, I finally spotted the problem.  At the beginning of my program I
> had defined a variable called "max"!  I had overridden the __builtin__
> function by mistake.
>
> Is there ever a good reason to override something in __builtin__?
> It's powerful, but potentially quite confusing.  Can the interpreter
> be instructed to give a warning message when you do it?

I believe that that's in the plan somewhere. The difficulty is that
it would undoubtedly break a lot of existing code, so it isn't going
to show up in 2.4 in its full glory. A warning might be feasible,
though.

There's a program (pychecker? I think that's the name) that should
be able to tell you whether you accidentally shadowed a built-in.

> Yes indeed, *everything* in Python is an object.  Let the newbie
> beware!

John Roth
>
> --
> John J. Ladasky Jr., Ph.D.
> Department of Biology
> Johns Hopkins University
> Baltimore MD 21218
> USA
> Earth





From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 10 02:42:37 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:42:37 GMT
Subject: CGI -- generating images -- \x0A always added!
References: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com> <mailman.1063167315.23982.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xJz7b.17514$ip5.1282848@twister.southeast.rr.com>

> >>> print "foo",;sys.stdout.softspace = 0

This doesn't work. \x0A is added anyways. And from what I've read it shoudn't work -- it influences only the blank BEFORE each print
that doesn't go after NL.

>  sys.stdout.write( "Content-type: image/gif\n\n" )
>  sys.stdout.write( data )
>  sys.stdout.close()            # or flush()

Doesn't work at all. Server error. Premature end of script headers.






From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  3 08:20:24 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 05:20:24 -0700
Subject: Python REST framework?
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org> <cb035744.0309021352.1da1ecd9@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062540849.14814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0309030420.537ac87e@posting.google.com>

> [Jack Diederich]
> Practicality beats purity, if the only piece of state you keep is 
> "this guy is logged in and he authenticated as 'Bob'" then you still
> get 99.99% of the cleanliness of REST.  If the workarounds to make
> it 100% REST-ful actually make the solution harder to use and implement
> then I'll gladly be [a little bit] non REST-ty.
> 
> The point of REST is to make things easier to do and cleaner to
> understand, not just so you can name drop "REST", right?
>

I thought REST was about "interoperability", a stupid word and I would
like another but my English is bad.  The idea is that HTTP + XML is so
much standard that everybody can use your services.

But for some, think about people in the industry, the strongest
argument for REST is scalability.  The web and email are the only
examples of *really* scalable application, where the numbers are
dozens of millions.  And REST is the web's architecture.


-- 
If Windows is the answer, it must have been a stupid question.



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep 25 10:03:55 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:03:55 GMT
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f72eb7c$0$29964$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <fBCcb.164855$R32.5292346@news2.tin.it>

ataraxia2500 wrote:

> hey Ed,
> I get that weird error when I tried to run the little loop, this is what
> it says:
> 
> sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xa0' in file myloop.py on
> line 3, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps
> pep-0263.html for details
>   File "myloop", line 3
>     os.system('/home/joe/src/myprog/myprog')
>     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> does it mean anything to you?

Sure!  You have a weird character, of hex code A0, somewhere on your
line 3.  How it got there, I dunno.  Anyway, what you need to do is
remove it -- a good editor should be able to show you exactly where
it is, otherwise just use a small Python script to find that out.


Alex




From calderano at sgaspa.it  Mon Sep 15 06:55:15 2003
From: calderano at sgaspa.it (Luca Calderano)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:55:15 +0200
Subject: R: caching the sql queries
In-Reply-To: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <002901c37b77$d8903540$410100a4@utente65>

The Only way is using Com

      S.G.A S.p.A.
Nucleo Sistemi Informativi
     Luca Calderano


-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]Per conto di JZ
Inviato: lunedi 15 settembre 2003 12.49
A: python-list at python.org
Oggetto: caching the sql queries


Is there any equivalent of caching sql queries for Python like ADOdb
for PHP? (For those who did not hear about ADODb and its feature :
http://phplens.com/adodb/caching.of.recordsets.html)

-- 
JZ

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From s.keim at laposte.net  Thu Sep 25 03:47:06 2003
From: s.keim at laposte.net (sebastien)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 00:47:06 -0700
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>

The PEP has the following sentence in the rejected alternatives:

> * Add a builtin function, reverse() which calls a magic method, __riter__. 
> I see this as more overhead for no additional benefit.

I believe that this is the better choice because it is the way forward
iteration work in python: you have the iter() function which call a
__iter__ special method.

So, I'd expect to have a riter() function which would call the
__riter__ special method.

I like riter as name to all other alternative because (iter, riter)
looks really like (find, rfind) or (index, rindex) ....

And I still think you don't need it often enough to put it in the
builtin namespace, so the function should go in the itertools module.



From rh4170056 at juno.com  Tue Sep 23 05:37:52 2003
From: rh4170056 at juno.com (rhmd)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 02:37:52 -0700
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com> <3dd5593c.0309211615.747ba123@posting.google.com> <3F6E4D02.7868D52C@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <616fccba.0309230137.586ddea5@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all who have responded.  Your information was very helpful,
I'm very impressed with the quality and thoughtfulness of the
responses.  Below find brief excerpts of some of the responses (which
I hope will be useful for others who search for info on this topic),
followed by more detail on my question.

BEGIN EXCERPTS
  Have you considered and investigated Numeric Python or similar
products?
  Look at the enthought Python installation (one is available for each
of 2.2 and 2.3) -- they not only install a slew of the packages you
might need for calculation heavy Python use, but (to support weave,
I believe), they also include a mingw32 compiler (minimal gnu win32)
which you can use for C++.  If you get to the point where you are
optimization-bound on your compiler (which you should determine by
measuring, not intuiting), you could do worse than the Intel compiler.
  I suggest you look at various Python libraries to do whatever
numerical
processing you might need to do. They are mostly written in C anyway
so
their performance is excellent. For instance, I use SciPy for Fourier
analysis and PIL for image processing, getting good performance on
these
numerically intensive tasks without ever leaving the ease and comfort
of
good old Python....The .NET compiler has a very good debugger and much
better standard compliance than the old 6.0 compiler, but I haven't
used  lot of different recent vintage C++ compilers...I generally use
COM objects written in Python to connect to Excel. I am very pleased
with that technique.

  Koenig & Moo's book (Accelerated C++) is the best I've
seen for [learning C++ for a few applications]..Python work with MSVC
is much less of a pain for most things than gcc (aka mingw).
  Writing everything in Python then porting the 'hot spots' is often
the
best strategy.  Use the profiler.
  Also (apart from Numeric / numarray), remember (or discover) Pyrex
and
psyco.  Probably Pyrex is more useful to you than psyco.  Don't apply
either to your whole program.  Just pick the bottlenecks.  If you
insist on using C++, make sure to look at Boost.Python(including
pyste).
  gcc ... If you don't mind that it takes
forever to compile C++ source code, until version 3.4 is released (it
will support pre-compiled header).
  It is equally trivial to connect Python to Delphi using ctypes.
Delphi can easily make a DLL that looks to the outside world like
C.  I have found Delphi to be maybe a little bit slower than MS C,
but a little faster than gcc.  They are all pretty close on speed,
so you can't really pick a winner a priori.  If you are doing VBA
now, can't you buy the entry-level version of VB for around 100
bucks and create C-callable DLL's?
END EXCERPTS

MORE DETAIL ON MY QUESTION
  VB.NET was another option I considered, have heard it produces
binary that runs "almost" as fast as that produced by C++, but am not
sure if that is true.  VB would be very convenient for me, but can it
produce DLLs that Python can use?  The reason I was considering using
Python/C++ combination is that I use Python already (as scripting
language for the Blender animation program) and thought I could also
use it with Excel to overcome certain Excel limitations, such as
Excel's ridiculous limitations on chart markers (i.e., could make
better charts with Python-- this would not be a time bottleneck so
Python's slowness is not an issue there), etc.  I also thought that,
despite Python's reputation for being a bit slow, it would at least be
faster than Excel VBA interpreter, but this may not be the case.  At
any rate, there are some calculations where I need a LOT of speed,
e.g. generating billions (with a B) of random numbers with the
Mersenne Twister algorithm (which is available in C++), for
statistical problems (mulitple undefined boundary conditions which can
only be extracted with a Monte Carlo method).  For this, even doubling
or quadrupling Python binary's speed would not be enough.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Sep 25 12:02:55 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:02:55 -0400
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn61legdn9jf56@news.supernews.com> <bkv2je$5fs$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <vn64dr9b177v85@news.supernews.com>

"Mark Jackson" <mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:bkv2je$5fs$1 at news.wrc.xerox.com...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
> >
> > "Mark Jackson" <mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
> > news:bkuru4$532$1 at news.wrc.xerox.com...
> > > Invalid User <user at invalid.domain> writes:
> >
> > > (This happens to be the *reverse* of what my intuition expects - it
> > > would seem more natural if the syntax meant "do this for loop to
> > > completion, else do this extra stuff," but this is the way it is and
> > > one must simply remember it.)
> >
> > There's a certain amount of justification, though. You can
> > already put whatever amount of logic you need in the if
> > statement that ends with the break. You don't otherwise
> > have that ability for normal termination of the sequence.
>
> Sure - I wasn't arguing the other meaning was needed, clearly it is
> not.  It's the use of the keyword "else" which creates the [purely
> mental] problem for me.

Good point.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
> There are no foolish questions and no man becomes a fool
> until he has stopped asking questions.
> - Charles P. Steinmetz
>
>





From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Wed Sep  3 13:50:15 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 10:50:15 -0700
Subject: **kwds behavior?
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com> <bj3oq2$uj1$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309030950.73fe8118@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the replies. basically what I was trying to accomplish was
to be able to load a script text file with python syntax into a class
and have it be able to cleanly reference the properties and methods.

I have currently accomplished it with something like this

code = compile(scriptText, '<string>','exec')
exec code in self.__dict__



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 13:39:31 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:39:31 -0400
Subject: Automated code generation
References: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <vlhij54b1cbl16@news.supernews.com>

"Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message
news:3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk...
> Yesterday there was an article on Slashdot:
>
http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/04/1415210&mode=flat&tid=108&tid=126&tid=156
>
> It is about automatic code generation.
>
> I got interrested in the subject, did a web search, and it seems kind of
> powerfull.
>
> My main interrest is web development in Zope/CMF/Plone, where there is a
> lot of repeated code in the products. So automated code generation seems
> like a natural fit.
>
> But every time I think of a use case, I immediately think of a way to do
> it with encapsulation instead.
>
> Does anybody have any experience using Python and automated code
> generation where it actually make sense?
>
> Or os it useless in a language as dynamic as Python?

There are a few places where automated code generation makes sense,
but these are mostly trivial time savers. For example, the propery()
function
could be extended to automatically generate trivial getters, setters and
deleters, saving some coding and making things clearer in the majority
of cases.

John Roth
>
>
> regards max M
>





From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 30 02:18:34 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:18:34 GMT
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <3f7918e1-cebe25d5-ba02-4762-ae3e-ad3bb70874cb@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <_e9eb.9852$NX3.7090@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Lulu of the Lotus Eaters:
> > So I only expect around 5,428,681 primes less than 10^8 to occur.
> > Well, that's not SO much less than 7.8M.

Klaus Alexander Seistrup
> I found 5,761,455 primes < 1E8.

http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/howmany.shtml has the same number.
(found by googling for "5,761,455" - 3rd hit. :)

That's using Proof by Consensus,
 http://www.isip.msstate.edu/about_us/misc/humor/proofs/

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com







From cnetzer at sonic.net  Sun Sep  7 05:39:12 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:39:12 -0700
Subject: OT: best book in years
In-Reply-To: <DGB6b.24532$hE5.902016@news1.tin.it>
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com>
	 <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com>
	 <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com>
	 <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com>
	 <bjdm21$nr2$1@wheel2.two14.net>
	 <mailman.1062908472.9309.python-list@python.org>
	 <DGB6b.24532$hE5.902016@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1062927552.1856.35.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Sun, 2003-09-07 at 01:06, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Me, I'd recommend "Dawkins vs. Gould: Survival of the Fittest",
> by Kim Sterelny.

Thanks, I had just been wondering if there was a book on this subject,
after a recent discussion about this topic with my girlfriend.

> Gould is a great writer, even though in his later works he often gives in to
> unstructured rambling (I can of course well sympathize with THAT 
> temptation:-) -- Dawkins, IMHO, isn't, even though in "The selfish gene" he
> does manage (by a mix of his powerful ideas and his dry direct prose) to
> be truly riveting.

Agreed about Dawkins.  I read "The Selfish Gene" while travelling, and
found it fascinating, but even I (uninformed as I am in this area)
thought the ideas presented (and often originated) by Dawkins needed
deeper presentation, or a richer justification.  A good presenter, but
not a great one.  Still, a great starting book, with fascinating ideas
if you've never progressed beyond the basic teachings of genetics, and
an important piece of work.

I haven't yet read Gould, though.  I've heard him in interviews enough
to not yet try to read his books.  He seems to have a "deeper" (for lack
of a better word) presentation style than Dawkins (ie. less intuitive at
first, but perhaps ultimately more satisfying).  I didn't quite feel
prepared for him in the past, and should now try.  Probably I'm doing
them both an injustice with these characterizations.

> If you do want to see (essentially) Dawkins' ideas
> presented by a truly great writer, try Matt Ridley -- "Genome", "Origins of
> Virtue", "Red Queen", all superb writing (haven't read "Nature via Nurture"
> yet -- I'll wait for the paperback).

Yes!  I heard him talk about "Nature via Nuture", and immediately
ordered all his books.  I haven't gotten to "Nature via Nurture" yet,
but the others have been fascinating reading (I'm proceeding from oldest
to newest).

I'm also reading "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond.  It is
fantastic, and a great companion to any of the above.  A very ambitious
work (the history of pre-modern humankind), with some powerful questions
raised and tackled.  There are many reviews on the web, so I'll just
leave it at that.

-- 
Chad Netzer





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 13:41:37 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:41:37 -0500
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
In-Reply-To: <20030917164148.12135.qmail@web16903.mail.tpe.yahoo.com>
References: <16232.35495.501167.780179@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <20030917164148.12135.qmail@web16903.mail.tpe.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16232.40145.813183.441676@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    fortepianissimo> But this created two lists (keys and dummy)? Compared
    fortepianissimo> to the filter() method, which created a list and a new
    fortepianissimo> set, maybe your suggestion is still a bit faster...

You asked for alternatives.  I offered one.  I'll let you do the performance
testing. ;-)

Skip

    fortepianissimo> --- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
    >> 
    fortepianissimo> I know I can do things like
    fortepianissimo> s=Set(range(1,11))
    fortepianissimo> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))
    >> 
    fortepianissimo> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a
    >> list
    fortepianissimo> which then must be converted back to a set. Any
    >> tips?
    >> 
    >> The only thing which comes to mind is:
    >> 
    >> >>> s = sets.Set(range(1,11))
    >> >>> s
    >> Set([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10])
    >> >>> keys = list(s)
    >> >>> dummy = [s.discard(x) for x in keys if x%2]
    >> >>> s
    >> Set([2, 4, 6, 8, 10])
    >> 
    >> You still create a list, but don't create a second set.
    >> 
    >> Skip


    fortepianissimo> __________________________________
    fortepianissimo> Do you Yahoo!?
    fortepianissimo> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
    fortepianissimo> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From bgudorf at neurokode.com  Tue Sep 23 18:45:41 2003
From: bgudorf at neurokode.com (Bryan J Gudorf)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:45:41 -0400
Subject: Python Database Objects (PDO) 1.0.1 Released
Message-ID: <CNEALBEPFCIBAOJCIGHHEEEJCGAA.bgudorf@neurokode.com>

   We at NeuroKode Labs, LLC, are proud to announce the release of Python
Database Objects (PDO) 1.0.1. The current release adds support for
PostgreSQL
via the pgdb Module.
   As released previously: Python Database Objects (PDO) provides an easy to
use Object
Oriented API for database developers. PDO utilizes DB-API modules for
database access,
but allows for a Common Object Oriented API across RDBMS. Thus, PDO can be
thought of
as a 'wrapper' around the DB-API and database specific modules.
   PDO offers a unique interface which includes such features as column
access by name,
forward and backward movement through a result set and much, much more.
   Downloads for Python Database Objects are available on SourceForge.Net
or for more information please visit http://pdo.neurokode.com.

~Bryan J Gudorf
NeuroKode Labs, LLC





From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 11:46:48 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:46:48 GMT
Subject: Now that rexec is gone...
References: <XA8db.597231$o%2.276974@sccrnsc02>
Message-ID: <Ihidb.130710$hE5.4447927@news1.tin.it>

Rainer Deyke wrote:

> Now that rexec is gone, is there any code or information available on
> executing Python in a restricted environment?  And before I roll my own
> solution, exactly where the security holes in rexec anyway?
> 
> (I know one way of getting a restricted environment: butcher the Python
> interpreter by removing everything that's even remotely dangerous, use
> Python only for restricted execution, and do everything else in a C++
> program that embeds the butchered Python interpreter.  I'd like to avoid
> doing that, for obvious reasons.)

Actually, such a "butchered" Python interpreter might be a fun and
useful project indeed.  You would have to add programmable limits on
resource consumptions -- e.g., memory allocatable by the script[s],
time (CPU or maybe elapsed) usable thereby, etc.  And you should rename
everything, say to use Qy instead of Py, so that a normal and a
butchered interpreter could easily be embedded in the same program.

Once the hard work of "butchering" is done, you might in fact quite
easily expose "the butchered interpreter" via an extension module for
Python proper -- no need to do "everything in C++", you'd just have two
separate Pythons, a full-function one and a seriously-hobbled one.

Not *QUITE* as good as running untrusted code in a separate "jail"'d
process, perhaps, but probably the closest you can come to that on
such environments as Windows.  Note that the need to add resource
limitations is crucial (and was never addressed by rexec, making it
pretty useless to ward against denial-of-service kinds of attacks!).


Alex




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Sep 23 11:45:36 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:45:36 +0200
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
In-Reply-To: <3F706279.9000203@bu.edu>
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com> <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu> <3F706279.9000203@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <20030923154536.GA4166@nl.linux.org>

Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:
> In my understanding, using try/except rather than if/else is more 
> pythonic. However, sometimes it is difficult to use the later.
> For example, I want to search for a sub string in a list composed of 
> strings. It is considered "possitive" if there is a match, no matter how 
> many.
> 
> my_test = ['something', 'others', 'still others']
> 
> case 1: try/except
> 
> hit = 0
> for i in my_test:
>    try:
>       i.index('some')
>       hit = 1
>    except ValueError:
>       pass

> case 2: if/else
> 
> hit = 0
> for i in my_test:
>    if 'some' in i:
>       hit = 1

Much faster would be:
def check():
    for elem in my_test:
        if 'some' in elem:
            return True

...this way, it immediatly stops checking all following values once it finds
a single match.

> It seems to me that in a simple searching/matching, using if might be 
> better and the code is smaller. Try/except would have its strengh on 
> catching multiple errorrs.

Agreed.

> However, problems occur if the criteria is 
> composed of "or" rather than "and". For instance:
> 
> if (a in b) or (c in b):
>    *do something
> 
> try:
>    b.index(a)
>    b.index(c)
>    *do something
> except ValueError:
>   pass
> 
> The above two are very  different.

It would be more similar to use 'if (a in b) and (c in b)',
because that is what the try/except block does. If so, I
think it has the same effect.
I would absolutely prefer the former, because I don't like function
calls who neither change an object whose return value is
thrown away. 

regards,
Gerrit.

-- 
243. As rent of herd cattle he shall pay three gur of corn to the
owner.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From peter at designtheory.org  Wed Sep  3 12:55:18 2003
From: peter at designtheory.org (Peter Dobcsanyi)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 16:55:18 GMT
Subject: ANN: An XML format for block designs
Message-ID: <bj56dm$7k9$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>


    A standard format for block designs and their properties
    ========================================================

         (A proposal and an invitation for public debate)


At DesignTheory.org we are developing a web-based Design Theory Resource
Server for combinatorial and statistical design theory.  These resources
will include an online database of designs, an Encyclopaedia of Design
Theory, and software packages for the generation and analysis of
designs.  We hope to address the needs of both researchers and
practitioners of design theory.

One critical element is our XML format to represent designs and their
properties in a standard platform-independent manner. This will allow
for the straightforward exchange of designs and their properties between
various computer systems, including databases and web servers, and
combinatorial, group theoretical and statistical packages. The XML
format will also be used for outside submissions to our design database
and to store designs in perpetuity.

Our initial development is in the area of block designs, and we invite
you to read and comment on our proposal for the External Representation
of Block Designs, available online at:

    http://designtheory.org/

Please send your comments (and follow-ups) exclusively to:

    developers at designtheory.org

This is a mailing list to which you are welcome, although not required,
to join. Alternatively, you can follow the discussions through the
public archives of the list.  For further details, please visit:

    http://designtheory.org/mailing.html

We will finalize the XML format for block designs after sufficient
public debate, after which we shall release GAP [1], R [2], and Python
[3] software for block designs.  We are committed to the open source
model and all products of our development will be released to the public
free of charge.

We shall also start developing a database of block designs, and look
forward to your contributions (in the XML format) to this database.

Please feel free to forward this announcement to anyone you think may be
interested.

References:

[1] GAP - Groups, Algorithms and Programming
    http://www.gap-system.org/

[2] The R Project for Statistical Computing
    http://www.r-project.org/

[3] The Python programming language
    http://www.python.org/



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 10 12:52:36 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:52:36 -0500
Subject: problem with tabnanny
In-Reply-To: <1063210194.3f5f4cd29c11c@mail.dei.unipd.it>
References: <1063210194.3f5f4cd29c11c@mail.dei.unipd.it>
Message-ID: <16223.22228.720552.597770@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Pier> #---------8<---- test.py -------------
        
    Pier> if 1:
    Pier> print "error" 

    Pier> #---------8<------ end test.py -------

    Pier> $ python /usr/lib/python2.2/tabnanny.py -v test.py
    Pier> '/home/pier/test.py': Clean bill of health.

    Pier> for tabnanny it's correct!?

Tabnanny doesn't try to find indentation syntax errors in your code.  It
identifies indentation which mixes spaces and tabs in such a way that the
file might not execute properly because of differing interpretations about
how a TAB indents.  In your case there's no ambiguity because there is no
leading whitespace at all.

Skip




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Sep 28 02:29:06 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:29:06 -0400
Subject: Meta programming question
References: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cducnfN4Z_gu4uuiU-KYjA@comcast.com>

"Bruce Dickey" <ceiesa at excite.com> wrote in message
news:vnce64dgqj047c at corp.supernews.com...
> I've read a number of the meta progamming articles. I have not found
> what I am looking for. I want to override assignments to variables
which
> are in the module namespace (not object members -- no classes
involved).
> Can this be done?

Yes -- by rewriting the appropriate section of the source code.  Since
it is clearly written, open source, and freely recompilable, this is
doable by a competant and motivated C programmer.  But given how
intertwined current assignment semantics are with the rest of the
language, I have trouble imaging an alternative that would make sense.

Terry J. Reedy





From Stephen.Boulet at no.spam.motorola.com  Wed Sep  3 11:49:32 2003
From: Stephen.Boulet at no.spam.motorola.com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:49:32 -0500
Subject: Trouble with script fetching site
In-Reply-To: <873cfe6je4.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <3Zadnamljsa-dMiiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net> <3F55ECD2.48F0BB0B@engcorp.com> <873cfe6je4.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bj52kr$5pc$1@newshost.mot.com>

You guys are probably right. If you have a hammer ...

John J. Lee wrote:
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Stephen Boulet wrote:
>>
>>>I'm trying to parse a url to set my hardware & system clock (linux).
>>
>>I can't help with the problem at hand, but I also don't see the
>>reason to do it.  Why not just access an NTP server and grab the
>>time the "proper" way?  Using a web page is a roundabout way of
>>doing it.
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> 
>>There's a nice setclock.py script which Google can
>>point you to which does the job much more easily.
> 
> 
> On my system, the ntpdate command works nicely.  I run it my PPP
> scripts.
> 
> 
> John




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Sep 24 06:29:15 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:29:15 -0400
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <f4b2nv8vs81v6egonckq7935jmh6a8gku6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vn2sf0aqqp8433@news.supernews.com>

"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in
message news:f4b2nv8vs81v6egonckq7935jmh6a8gku6 at 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:30:31 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger"
> <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >Proposal
> >========
> >
>
> >* Should file objects be included?  Implementing reverse iteration may
not
> >  be easy though it would be useful on occasion.
>
> IMO no - doing this essentially needs the whole file to be read into
> memory, in which case you may as well read the whole file into a list
> and then iterate the list backwards.

Actually, it doesn't. It does require that the file be read into the
buffers backwards, but from there it's simply a matter of doing
a reverse scan for the line ending characters. The difficulty is that
the entire algorithm would have to be done in C, without any
significant help from the standard library.

John Roth
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Horne
>
> steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk





From jhefferon at smcvt.edu  Sun Sep 21 11:19:18 2003
From: jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 08:19:18 -0700
Subject: Has psycopg moved?
Message-ID: <545cb8c2.0309210719.2a1c554c@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I want to try psycopg, the module for Postgres access.  I'm having trouble
reaching the site for four or five days now.  For example, the link on 
the Python web site's DB Modules page 
  http://initd.org/Software/psycopg
times out, as do some other links that Google gives me.  Am I looking in the
wrong place, or is it just that the site is experiencing some difficulties?

Thanks, Jim



From stefan.fleiter at web.de  Wed Sep  3 05:50:41 2003
From: stefan.fleiter at web.de (Stefan Fleiter)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:50:41 +0200
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062542167.17108.python-list@python.org>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD454A@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com> <mailman.1062542167.17108.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj4dhh$24s$1@news.web.de>

Hi,

Jeff Epler wrote:

> No, it's apparently deliberate that slices don't hash (so that
> {}[1:2] raises an error).  I think that slice(None).__hash__ is from
> object.__hash__, but this is rightfully(?) ignored by PyObject_Hash()
> which looks at tp_hash (NULL for slice objects) and tp_compare (non-NULL
> for slice objects) with the result that the object is treated as
> unhashable.

So, should I write a bugreport or not?
Are you sure it is "rightfully ignored" or not?

Somewhat puzzled,
Stefan




From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Wed Sep 17 20:33:48 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 17:33:48 -0700
Subject: PyQt: Can't show PY variable in QT filedialog as initially parameter
References: <43e3984e.0309110814.7d759662@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063473500.5080.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309171633.c8ae3e5@posting.google.com>

Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063473500.5080.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thursday 11 September 2003 5:14 pm, ulysses wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I use PyQt 3.8 non-commercial version in win32. I get a big question.
> > I Can't show PY variable in QT filedialog as initially parameter.
> >
> > Code sample is following:
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > fileName="test.avi"
> >
> > def saveSomething(aString):
> >     dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(aString, "*.*", self, "FileDialog")
> > or
> >     dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(QString(aString), "*.*",
> >                                         self, "FileDialog")
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > these code can't show corrent string.
> >
> > If I use string constant.
> >    dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName("test.avi", "*.*", self, "FileDialog")
> >
> > Dialog show it correctly.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Ulysses
> 
> Have you got a complete (but small) example that demonstrate's the problem?
> 
> Phil

Above code is a example. I do a little application for free. 
main form will arrive 1XXX line. So I can't post it all.

BTW: I can't show getExistingDirectory Dialog in a python thread.
it's will halt whole program.



From spatel at landrum-brown.com  Fri Sep 12 16:53:13 2003
From: spatel at landrum-brown.com (Samir Patel)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:53:13 -0500
Subject: Simples examples for standard libraries
Message-ID: <200309121553.13096.spatel@landrum-brown.com>

Python comes with huge number of build in libraries. Best way to start python
is to understand this libraries and what it provides by running simple
examples for each libraries. Does anybody know if this is done by anybody? If
not, is test modules are best way to accomplish this? I am interested in
doing something like this in wxPython. My concept is something like demo
example of wxpython where you have tree structure containing different
libraries and inside contains different examples.  Please post your
suggestions.





From SPAMtbone at freegates.be  Mon Sep 22 17:40:24 2003
From: SPAMtbone at freegates.be (Philip)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:40:24 +0200
Subject: DB2 driver for windows
References: <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net> <slrnbmugcf.ppc.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <3f6f6c4c$0$1115$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>

Dave Benjamin wrote:

> In article <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894 at feed0.news.be.easynet.net>, Philip
> wrote:
>> i'am looking for a db2 driver for windows
>> the DB2 servers runs on as400 if that makes any difference.
> 
> I don't know if you're looking for a native driver, but if you can work
> with ODBC, I was able to get DB2's ODBC driver (the one that comes with
> the DB2 client installation) to talk to the mx.ODBC module.
> 
> http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html
> 

Currently i'am using jython for database administration (because didn't find
an native driver)

I like the java jdbc driver because you don't need to install anything
especialy interesting when sharing code)

But the downside is that you have the java tiresome api. the obvious reason
way i have choicen python/jython.

Well, prefer a native one but if it's easy to install the odbc driver
that would be fine too.

Thanks,
Philip
 



From alkirke1 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 11 01:23:08 2003
From: alkirke1 at comcast.net (Al Kirke)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:23:08 -0700
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>        <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>        <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>        <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>        <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>        <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>        <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>        <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>        <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>        <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>        <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <000b01c37824$c972de10$3a0ff10c@teaset>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: "Al Kirke" <alkirke1 at comcast.net>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Americans love their guns


>
>     >> Counter-test: Imagine your seven-year-old son finding your gun and
>     >> shooting and killing your five-year-old daughter while you're
working
>     >> in your study.
>
>     Al> Impossible.  The son had been taught safe gun handling on the
pistol
>     Al> range w/ a .22 starting at aged five, and would come and tell you
>     Al> that firearm had not been safely stored.
>
> This sort of thing still happens (it hits the news whenever such a
shooting
> occurs),

You're correct in that this sort of thing hits the news. What doesn't
hit the news are the instances when handguns are used for personal
defense.  John Lott wrote a whole book about liberal news bias
aganst those instances.

http://www.wmsa.net/people/john_lott/030822_bias_star.htm

> so clearly all seven-year-olds who live in houses with guns are not
> being trained to handle and respect firearms.

MY children were taught to handle firearms safely beginning age 5.
Are yours?  My son got his mini-size .22 bolt-action atage 9.  The
son and one daughter expect to apply for a Texas CHL when
they reach their twenty first birthdays.

But the biggest difference that household firearms make in
society is in the hot burglary statistics.   A "hot" burglary is one
that occurs when the family is home. . In England more than
half of the burglaries are "hot". In the U.S. that statistic is
about 13 percent.   The U.S. burglars tell that they go to
great pains to avoid householders, not because the police
will be summoned, but because of the risk of getting shot.
English buglars don't care much whether you're home or not.

http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/1/17/105209

A current judicial move concerns the 2nd Amendment. 5th
Circuit in New Orleans says its an individual right to keep
and bear arms, 9th Circuit in San Francisco (where else?)
says the right belongs to the national guard.  This conflict
will reach the SCOTUS in the next year or so.

Cheers,

Al





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 04:13:39 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:13:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: super confused
References: <63qrlv8p4sqt7mossa6kimfloa0au416f5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F25D07C2580duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in 
news:63qrlv8p4sqt7mossa6kimfloa0au416f5 at 4ax.com:

> In Smalltalk, a message send to 'super' simply means to send a message
> to self but start looking in the superclass first for the method. I
> realize Smalltalk is a single-inheritance language, but doesn't
> explain why, in Python, you need to specify the class name as a
> parameter.

The problem is that super needs two classes to operate. It has to know the 
type of the object (which is why you pass it 'self'), but it also has to 
know where to start in the inheritance hierarchy. If super was a keyword 
with some magic properties, then it might be able to pick up the correct 
class automatically, but its actually just a boring ordinary function, so 
you have to tell it.

> 
> As an aside, you will notice in the 'append' method, there are two
> ways to do the same thing, and either way could be used in the other
> methods as well. Which brings up my second question: Is one way more
> correct/efficient/better/pick your adjective? I'm very inclined to use
> the 'super' method cos that means I won't have to worry about changing
> things in the future.
> 
Actually these do slightly different things:

> class ValidatedList(list):
>     ...
>     def append(self, objekt):
>         _validate(objekt)
> #        list.append(self, objekt)
>         super(ValidatedList,self).append(objekt)

If you were to subclass ValidatedList, and the subclass also inherits from 
another subclass of list, then the call through super might not call 
list.append directly.

class List2(list):
   def append(self, objekt):
       return super(List2, self).append(objekt)

class Painful(ValidatedList, List2):
   pass

ouch = Painful()
ouch.append('oops')

Calling ouch.append invokes ValidatedList.append which passes the call up 
to List2.append, which then calls list.append. If ValidatedList.append 
called list.append directly then a call to ouch.append would never pass 
through List2.append.

So when to use super, and when to call the base class directly? If you 
don't expect diamond inheritance hierarchies, and you aren't writing a 
general purpose library for other people, then I would probably want to 
invoke the base class directly. It's faster (if you care), but also clearer 
to read. If those conditions don't hold, then use super.

Either way use plenty of unit tests so that if at some time your 
assumptions no longer apply you'll find out about it quickly.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Sep 19 15:41:55 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:41:55 -0700
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
References: <mailman.1063995987.26144.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6B5C03.77D5E947@alcyone.com>

python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote:

> The only problem is that I have no idea how to override operators in
> python.  Can anyone give me a few trivial examples of how it is done?

Just override the __sub__ method:

>>> class Date:
...  def __init__(self, year, quarter):
...   self.year = year
...   self.quarter = quarter
...  def quarters(self):
...   return self.year*4 + self.quarter
...  def __sub__(self, other):
...   return self.quarters() - other.quarters()
... 
>>> Date
<class __main__.Date at 0x402e053c>
>>> q1 = Date(2001, 1)
>>> q4 = Date(2001, 4)
>>> q4 - q1
3

> And, on a completely unrelated note, I am getting a truly amazing
> amount
> of spam today.  Anyone else?

Yep.  I've gotten 262 MB since 2 am this morning.  Another worm is out
and about, I'd presume.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You and I / We've seen it all / Chasing our hearts' desire
\__/  The Russian and Florence, _Chess_



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep  8 18:40:26 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 22:40:26 GMT
Subject: win32com: create email message in windows default app?
References: <z9I6b.18545$n94.7236@fed1read04> <Xns93F08D8CED933cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <bjj0gq$9ng$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:51:28 +0200, Harald Massa <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote:

>>run the
>>default email application, create a new message, and let me populate it 
>>with subject, body, and attachments?
>
>if you do not need  attachements...
>
>
>import webbrwoser
>
>webbrowser.open("mailto:guido at python.org?subject=PyPy and 
>stacklass&body=please support theses projects")
>
>
That seems to work nicely under NT4 with Python2.3 and Eudora.
And it doesn't send the email (a Good Thing IMO), so it should
be possible to continue in Eudora with more text etc.,
and attach something if desired.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Sep 12 12:06:29 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:06:29 -0400
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vJqdnfVPp4WbcvyiXTWJhw@comcast.com>

"Ubaidullah Nubar" <ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> How well is Python suited for developing database based
applications?
> I am new to Python so please bear with me if some of the questions
are
> too simple. I specifically have the following questions:
>
> 1. Is there an example of a simple data-entry application written in
> Python using a GUI interface? Something like a simple address book
app
> with a listbox displaying all addresses with the ability to
> add/modify/delete.

I hope someone else answers this.

> 2. There seem to be a number of GUI frameworks available? Which one
is
> good for use on Windows and Linux?

Most people prefer the one they use.  No surprise.  Use google to find
previous threads on this topic.

> 3. Can Python apps be compiled to an exe?

No, Python code cannot currently be compiled to a native code .exe in
the way you probably mean.  Yes, Python bytecode (including included
modules) can be combined with a copy of the interpreter in a
distributable .exe,  Googling 'Python executable' perhaps with
'McMillan' (spelling?) should get you previous posts with links.

> Can the resulting executable be distributed commercially?

Yes.

> 4. What types of applications are not suitable to be written in
Python?

Hmmm.

Terry J. Reedy





From querdenker69 at mtsi.de  Mon Sep  1 17:03:09 2003
From: querdenker69 at mtsi.de (querdenker69)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:03:09 +0200
Subject: IIS 6.0/Python problem
In-Reply-To: <51bb029f.0308280110.7fa1709b@posting.google.com>
References: <51bb029f.0308280110.7fa1709b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj0c6d$o4n$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Chung Jiho wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> We have been deploying our web application over win2k servers. It is
> written in Python and uses Active Scripting to meet our requirements
> that it must be ASP application. So far, it was O.K.
> 
> But recently we discovered our application doesn't work on Windows
> 2003 server. Even simple page such as below results in 500 Server
> Error.
> 
> <%@Language="Python"%>
> <%
> Response.Write("Hello, world?")
> %>
> 
> Have any of you experienced similiar problem in Windows 2003
> server/IIS 6.0 settings? VBScript and JScript ASPs are working well. I
> already allowed ASP scripting and checked "use parent path" on
> configuration dialog box.
> 
> Here's my IIS log. ASP_0147 error number is too generic to give us any
> hint and the page above is not doing any real work. Python version is
> 2.3 and win32all version is 155 (both are latest.)
> 
> 165.246.66.32, -, 8/26/2003, 16:57:33, W3SVC1, MULTI-SRV,
> 165.246.66.32, 15, 362, 368, 301, 0, GET, /drlistening, -,
> 165.246.66.32, -, 8/26/2003, 16:57:33, W3SVC1, MULTI-SRV,
> 165.246.66.32, 0, 363, 198, 500, 0, GET, /drlistening/Default.asp,
> |-|ASP_0147|500_Server_Error,
> 165.246.66.32, -, 8/26/2003, 16:58:12, W3SVC1, MULTI-SRV,
> 165.246.66.32, 0, 362, 368, 301, 0, GET, /drlistening, -,
> 165.246.66.32, -, 8/26/2003, 16:58:12, W3SVC1, MULTI-SRV,
> 165.246.66.32, 0, 363, 198, 500, 0, GET, /drlistening/Default.asp,
> |-|ASP_0147|500_Server_Error,
> 165.246.66.32, -, 8/26/2003, 16:58:12, W3SVC1, MULTI-SRV,
> 165.246.66.32, 0, 362, 368, 301, 0, GET, /drlistening, -,
> 165.246.66.32, -, 8/26/2003, 16:58:12, W3SVC1, MULTI-SRV,
> 165.246.66.32, 15, 363, 198, 500, 0, GET, /drlistening/Default.asp,
> |-|ASP_0147|500_Server_Error,
> 
> TIA

digging in the deep i remember something like:

IIS only supports .Net-technologies

I'd read an chat-script on the msdn-forum about the new features in
IIS6  , where some of the guests hava asked for support like PHP and 
Python. And, as i remember, the answer was clearly: No, we won't support
3rd-Part-Libraries (at the moment). The only way th handle dynamic data 
is to use ASP.NET

syl, Marcus




From fritz at expires-200309.rodent.frell.eu.org  Thu Sep 11 06:55:29 2003
From: fritz at expires-200309.rodent.frell.eu.org (Fritz Wuehler)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:55:29 +0200
Subject: 1.5 vs. 2x - build problem
Message-ID: <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org>

I downloaded a tarball which doesn't compile.  The error message says I
need python 2x but all I have is 1.5.  Can I fix the compatability
problem and get it to work on 1.5?






From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep  9 08:05:56 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 05:05:56 -0700
Subject: What does the keyword 'global' really mean
Message-ID: <1063109156.3f5dc2245d452@mcherm.com>

John Dean writes:
> I have looked [...] for a full explanation of what
> 'global' really means. Would I be
> correct in assuming that any variable prefixed with the keyword global would
> allow that variable to be accessible across translation units, in other
> words global is equivalent to the 'C' keyword 'extern' ?

It's a reasonable assumption, but no, that's not what global does in Python.

In Python, a "global" variable is accessible throughout a single module
(file), instead of throughout the entire program. It's normally just
those things (variables, functions and classes) that are defined at the
"top level" in the file. Of course, although these are only "global" in
the module, they can still be accessed from other modules via import.
For instance, "stdin" and "stdout" are two globals from the sys module,
and if you use "import sys", you can later read from "sys.stdin". But
if you were writing a function INSIDE the sys module, you could just use
"stdin" anywhere... inside a function, a method, anywhere. That's why
it's called "global".

There is, however, one exception: you are allowed to shadow a variable
by using another with the same name. Consider this code:

    # WARNING: Code not tested. Could have bugs.
    x = 7 # defines global variable

    def func_using_global():
        print 'x = %i' % x  # prints 7

    # notice that there are now two globals: "x" and "func_using_global"

    def outer_func():
        print 'start outer'
        def inner_func():
            print 'x = %i' % x  # ALSO prints 7
        inner_func()
        y = 8

    # now 3 globals, we added "outer_func". "y" and "inner_func" are
    #  NOT global.

    def func_using_x_for_other_purposes():
        x = 99
        print 'x has been defined as %i' % x  # prints 99

In the function "func_using_x_for_other_purposes", the name "x" is 
used for some other purpose, totally unrelated to the global variable
of the same name. That's ALLOWED, which is nice, because it means you
don't have to know about global variables you are writing a function
(except for those that you plan to use). But what if you wanted to
write a function that CHANGED the global x?

Well, that's what the "global" statement is for. Python assumes that
if you just USE a variable, without assigning to it, then it's the 
global variable of that name (if there is one!). But if you assign to
it anywhere in the function, then it assumes you have a local variable
that just happens to share the same name. If you really wanted to
CHANGE the global variable, then you add a "global" statement, like
this:

    def func_changing_global_x():
        global x
        x = x + 1  # changes the global "x"

> Also, does Python have the equivalent of the 'C' keyword 'static'?

If you really mean 'C''s "static" (not C++, which re-used it for
some wierd stuff), then the answer is "global"! Just create a global
variable, and choose to use it only within a particular function, 
and BOOM! there you go... a "static" variable. Any thread safety 
issues (if your program uses threads) are your own responsibility (same
as in C).

Hope this helps!

-- Michael Chermside







From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Sep 11 16:32:09 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:32:09 -0500
Subject: getting ttf font/family name; fontTools?
Message-ID: <m2ad9bcbhy.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

I would like to extract the font and family name from a TTF file.  I
have been looking at fontTools ttLib, which parses the ttf file and
provides lots of helpful information, but cannot find the name.

  >>> from fontTools import ttLib
  >>> tt = ttLib.TTFont("cour.ttf")

tt['head'] seems like a good place to find it, but I can't.

The data appear to be in the 'name' field

  >>> s = tt.getTableData('name')
  >>> s.find('Courier')
  4197

But I still don't know how to extract this information if I don't know
the family/font name in advace.  Any ideas on how to best extract this
info using fontTools or otherwise?

What I am trying to do is find the best ttf font file for a given
fontname, fontangle, and fontweight.  I plan to write my own font
finder given a font name and font family from the ttf file, but if
there is a better way to find ttf fonts let me know.  Eg, what I want
to do is

  ttfile = findfont('Courier', 'Italic', 'Bold') 

and have findfont search some PATH containing TTF files and return the
closest match, or a default if no good match is found.

Thanks,
John Hunter




From jblazi at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 20 06:51:39 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:51:39 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com>

I should like to search certain characters in a string and when they are
found, I want to replace other characters in other strings that are at
the same position (for a very simply mastermind game) for my pupils.

This very simple thing does not seem simple at all.

If I use strings, I cannot replace their parts (though I can use
string.find for the searching). I think it is a bad idea that strings are
not mutable, but I suspect that this has been discussed here for ages.

I can use sequences instead, but then first I have to 'split' and 'join'.
Additionally, there is no 'find' for sequences (who knows why not) and so
I can choose between using 'index' that raises an exception (and we have
not covered exceptions yet) or I can ask whether the character is in the
string before using 'index' which is a bit artificial from the point of
view of my pupils. (It is all right with me.)

Do I oversee something?

TIA,
JB



----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Sep 26 12:18:18 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:18:18 -0700
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
 "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

> How about
> 
> from itertools import ireverse
> for i in ireverse(xrange(n)):
>     # suite
> 
> ireverse(), like imap(), izip(), etc., suggests that the operation is
> iterative, and that no modification of the original sequence will be
> performed. Others have suggested riter() (right iteration), in order to form
> an association with the iter() builtin. As a matter of taste, I prefer
> ireverse().

ireverse, like imap(), izip(), etc., suggests that the operation happens 
without the memory overhead of copying the whole sequence into a list 
before reversing it.  Do you have some plan for how to do that e.g. with 
simple generators?  Or easy to understand explanation for which things 
can be ireversed and which can't?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Thu Sep 18 17:18:40 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:18:40 +0200
Subject: Python ISPs
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <877k45aj7z.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox) writes:

> Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
> seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
> this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
> leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
> solution.
>
>                         Thanks Joey.

I know only one commercial webside: http://www.python-hosting.com/,
they have mod_python, Spyce and many more (Zope, Plone, Nuxeo CPS,
Silva, Webware, Twisted, CherryPy, SkunkWeb, Quixote, 4Suite Server,
Spyce, Albatross, Cheetah, mod_python, Straight CGI)

for free testing of CherryPy consider http://www.freecherrypy.org/

newer used, just know it exist

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep 30 11:22:01 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:22:01 +0200
Subject: can i implement virtual functions in python ?
In-Reply-To: <e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567@posting.google.com>
References: <e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F799F99.10105@ghaering.de>

Prabu wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to python, so excuse me if i'm asking something dumb. 
> Does python provide a mechanism to implement virtual functions? [...]

What do you mean with "virtual function"?

If you mean virtual methods in the C++ sense, all methods are "virtual" 
in Python.

-- Gerhard




From gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net  Tue Sep 30 17:51:05 2003
From: gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net (G.A.)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:51:05 GMT
Subject: Running python from eclipse/pyeclipse
Message-ID: <2hujnvk0a4lmv992v0rf2k91dicmg29nee@4ax.com>

I've installed Eclipse 3.0 and the latest pyeclipse.  I can get the editor
run - at least I think so, because it seems to do reasonable syntax
highlighting.  However, I can't get the Python console window to appear
(Unable to instantiate view: org.python.pyeclipse.views.ConsoleView), nor
can I get python to run to completion.  The MSWindows Task Manager shows
that eclipse has successfully started python.exe (at least a process by
that name shows up), but eclipse just shows 0% progress.

Any suggestions, even if they're just on how to debug this?

Thanks,

Gary



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep  2 12:04:05 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:04:05 -0400
Subject: **kwds behavior?
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <AfScndCztbrrIsmiXTWJiw@comcast.com>

"Paradox" <JoeyTaj at netzero.com> wrote in message
news:924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb at posting.google.com...
> Why does the following attempts to pass in keywords arguments not
> work.

What do you mean 'not work'.  What was your output and what did you
expect?

>It would be alot cooler if there was a way to not have to have
> the function defined with the variable name.

I don't understand your meaning here.

It really seems to me
> that the 3rd function should work. Does anyone know how to
accomplish
> something like this.

Again, what is 'this'?

> def testKeywords1 (**kwds):
> print x

If you want posted code to be read with indents by everybody, use
space instead of tab to indent.  It's your choice to limit readership
or not.

>
> def testKeywords2 (**kwds):
> locals().update(kwds)

Above line has same effect as 'pass' for reason John Roth quoted.

> print x
>
> def testKeywords3 (**kwds):
> locals().update(kwds)
> def testNested():
> print x
> testNested()
>
> dict = {}
> dict['x'] = 5
> # doesn't work

I usually expect 'doesn't work' to apply to the line above that I just
read -- just as this response applies to the line quoted above.  I
suspect you meant 'below doesn't work', whatever 'doesn't work means.
The alternative way to reverse the 'pointer' is to leave a space above
and none below.

> testKeywords1(**dict)
> # doesn't work
> testKeywords2(**dict)
> # doesn't work
> testKeywords3(**dict)

If you don't get your question answered with above, try again with
different words.

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep 23 17:39:59 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 23:39:59 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3fzinp4k0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan) writes:

> A: No. The UnicodeData.txt file includes all of the 1:1 case mappings,
> but doesn't include 1:many mappings such as the one needed for
> uppercasing ?. Since many parsers now expect this file to have at most
> single characters in the case mapping fields, an additional file
> (SpecialCasing.txt) was added to provide the 1:many mappings. For more
> information, see UTR #21- Case Mappings [MD]
> >>
> 
> Python specifications make an implied claim of full support for
> Unicode and an implied claim that the function upper() uppercases a
> string properly.

This is a contradiction: SpecialCasing contains 1:n mappings, whereas
.upper() can only return a single result. So how do you think
SpecialCasing should be considered in the implementation of .upper()?

> Users should not have to know such details. They may wish to know
> where a particular function does not do what might be expected of it.

Things are more difficult than they appear to be.

Regards,
Martin



From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Sep 25 18:19:00 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:19:00 -0700
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
In-Reply-To: <b3Jcb.24430$dk4.777126@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <030d01c383b3$053e27d0$21795418@dell1700>

> Well, since I'm not worried about "flexible", have my doubts about the
> "much slower" part,

Your implementation is O(n) with the number of entries while the Python
implementation is O(log(n)). If n is small then your implementation
might be acceptably fast. Can't you just use the STL hash_map template
class?

Cheers,
Brian





From hutsonken at ev1.net  Mon Sep 22 21:38:01 2003
From: hutsonken at ev1.net (Kenneth Hutson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:38:01 -0500
Subject: Connect to VBA Objects?
Message-ID: <vmv8d1hdf55ia0@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,
I wonder if Python can connect to the object models exposed by Excel or
Word.
Thanks in advance,
Ken Hutson
San Antonio, Texas





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Sep 27 06:09:41 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 12:09:41 +0200
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3vfrea6fu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> The problem is that I am at a loss with the configure mechanism, and I
> can't figure why audioop, imageop and _tkinter were not configured in
> from the beginning (it's a linux system, after all; libraries and
> includes are in the standard places, ie /usr/lib and /usr/include).  I
> am ATM browsing old posts in Google groups searching for pieces of a
> 'python-configure-how-to', but any hints would be appreciated.

_tkinter built fine for me, with Python 2.3.1, on a Debian/ia64
system.  If it was not built for you, most likely, you forgot to
install the header files.

audioop and imageop are not build because of this code in setup.py:

        # Multimedia modules
        # These don't work for 64-bit platforms!!!
        # These represent audio samples or images as strings:

        # Disabled on 64-bit platforms
        if sys.maxint != 9223372036854775807L:
            # Operations on audio samples
            exts.append( Extension('audioop', ['audioop.c']) )
            # Operations on images
            exts.append( Extension('imageop', ['imageop.c']) )
            # Read SGI RGB image files (but coded portably)
            exts.append( Extension('rgbimg', ['rgbimgmodule.c']) )

Regards,
Martin



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep  4 18:38:15 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 00:38:15 +0200
Subject: Comparing objects - is there a maximum object?
References: <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755@posting.google.com> <bj84rl$j2c$07$4@news.t-online.com> <1SN5b.8786$tw6.4739@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m3ekywch7s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

> Shouldn't there also be a
> 
>     def __rcmp__(self, other):
>         return -1
> ?

No, this would not be used. cmp(a,b) == -cmp(b,a)

Regards,
Martin



From holiver at ieee-occs.org  Mon Sep  8 17:28:20 2003
From: holiver at ieee-occs.org (James F. Lu - Publicity Chair)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:28:20 -0700
Subject: Upcoming Symposium - COSST
Message-ID: <00a201c37650$20bc52e0$220110ac@FLUFFY>

=======================================================
Coast Open Source Software Technology (COSST) Symposium
                         by
    IEEE Computer Society - Orange County Chapter
=======================================================

WHAT: Applying Open Source Web Technologies COSST Symposium
WHEN: Saturday Oct. 18.  9am-6pm
WHERE: Jazz Semiconductor auditorium, Conexant Systems

Overview
--------
Our technical focus will be on using LAMP and Java open-source technologies.
The LAMP acronym is used to describe a typical open-source platform "stack"
for web applications:

* Linux operating system
* Apache web server
* MySQL/PostgreSQL databases
* Perl/PHP/Python languages

The symposium will open with foundation talks providing an overview of
open-source software and Linux as an open-source web application platform. A
series of application-tier talks will provide insight from the point of view
of widely used web application development languages: Perl, PHP, Python, and
Java. The final session will be an experience panel, which will provide an
opportunity for experience reports from actual development projects to
illustrate real-life problems and opportunities of OSS.


Target Audience
---------------
The target audience for the symposium is professional software engineers and
technical management. The audience is expected to have a diverse background
involving many operating systems and languages, with experience in software
system development for a variety of industrial, military and commercial
purposes. Attendees will include experienced professionals who have had
little or no exposure with open-source software and are looking for a good
introduction.


Symposium Goals
---------------
The goal of the symposium is to provide participants with a high-level,
technically sophisticated overview of major open source software (OSS)
technologies for
web application development. The symposium will provide information about
technology, resources, and supporting tools and processes of the OSS
community. The attendee will take away from the symposium a basic
understanding of the available technologies, information about how to
acquire and learn more about the various packages, and insight that will
enable them to make informed decisions about using and deploying specific
OSS technology in web applications.



The technical sessions will address:

* overview - what is it, what does it do, what problems does it solve
* key features - description of key features with short examples
* application examples - a few simple examples of doing something useful or
where/how to apply the technology
* applicability - when should you use it? [or when not!]
* resources - where to get it, who maintains it, where
  to find help, documentation, assistance, mailing lists


Sessions
--------
9:00 Symposium Welcome

9:10 Introduction to open-source software
Walt Scacchi
Sr Research Scientist. UCI Institute of Software Research

10:00 Linux and OSS in Enterprise Development
Bill Hilf
Sr Architect and Linux Technical Leader.  IBM

11:00 Web Application Development with Perl
Eric Hammond
Director of Technology. Rent.com

12:00 Lunch (Included for paid registrants)

1:OO Introduction to PHP and PEAR
Jesus Castagnetto
Co-author of "Professional PHP Programming" (Wrox Press)

2:00 Python-Powered Web Application Development
Chuck Esterbrook
Software Consultant and Creator of Webware for Python

3:00 Mid-afternoon break

3:15 Java OSS Web Technologies
Dave Ford
Java Consultant and Trainer. SmartSoft.

4:15 Experiences in OSS Web Application Development Panel
Facilitated by Prakash Malani
Principal Software Engineer. eBuilt.com

5:15 Closing
Closing remarks and symposium wrapup.



Cost and Registration
---------------------
Your registration fees will be discounted according to your IEEE and/or
Computer Society membership, as shown below:

Standard $75
IEEE Member $60
IEEE Student Member $30
Student $45

You may register online at
https://www.regonline.com/Checkin.asp?EventId=9769

If you are one of the first 75 paid registrants, you will get a chance to
win one of two Oreilly's "Linux Server CD Bookshelf" (retail value:
$119.95), or one of many other LAMP related Oreilly reference books.

COSST Volunteers will get in free. There may also be T-Shirts. To volunteer,
contact Sebastian: seguti at ics.uci.edu or call 1-949-509-9628


Direction
---------------------
Conexant Systems-Jazz Semiconductor
4321 Jamboree Road
Newport Beach, CA 92660

A map of the area may be found at
http://www.jazzsemi.com/docs/jazz-directions.pdf


For more information, please visit us at http://cosst.ieee-occs.org  or call
Toll Free 1-888-548-1969
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From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep 11 13:27:06 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:27:06 +0200
Subject: Import question
References: <bjqau4$bqf$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <bjqbce$6l8$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Fred Lionetti" <lionetti at bioeng.ucsd.edu>

> If I have a file at C:\Python23\myfolder\mymodule.py
>
> why can't I say (from python prompt or anywhere else):
> import myfolder.mymodule    ????

It might help to put an empty file named __init__.py into 'myfolder'
Kindly
Michael P





From ulope at gmx.de  Thu Sep 18 16:38:56 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:38:56 +0200
Subject: Python ISPs
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkd551$f0b2$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Paradox" <JoeyTaj at netzero.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef at posting.google.com...
> Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
> seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
> this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
> leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
> solution.

You could go for one of those virtual servers all for yourself...

Ciao Ulrich





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Sep 21 17:58:11 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:58:11 -0700
Subject: math.exp(complex)
References: <mailman.1064176468.3210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-312D12.14581121092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1064176468.3210.python-list at python.org>,
 "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

> > >>> math.e**(1j*math.pi) (-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)
> 
> Or, in this case, use the builtin pow(), which looks for a __pow__ method,
> which is the same thing "**" does.  Math libraries in general can return a
> better result for exp(x) than e**x, though, since the latter form uses a
> machine approximation to e as the base.

Doesn't look especially different to me, for the numbers I'm currently 
interested in applying this to (small pure imaginary):

>>> from cmath import *
>>> exp(1j*pi)
(-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)
>>> e**(1j*pi)
(-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Wed Sep  3 01:34:19 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:34:19 +1000
Subject: just a beep
References: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <mailman.1062489605.3888.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj3ug3$23m5$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

thanks a lot! that's what i want: an platform independend beep!

and indeed i want to read more about functions vs methods! but my quick
browse through the docu did not show me that there is sth in beetween
Tkinter and bell...

cheers, leo
"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062489605.3888.python-list at python.org...
> "Leo" wrote:
>
> > i want python to do a beep.
> >
> > in the docu i found in tkinter the method
> > bell()
> > but the script:
> > import Tkinter
> > Tkinter.bell()
> > gives the error:
> > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'bell'
>
> you might find it easier to use Python if you spend some time reading
> up on functions vs. methods; in the meantime, here's one way to call
> the "bell" method in Tkinter:
>
>     >>> import Tkinter
>     >>> Tkinter.Tk().bell()
>
> </F>
>
>
>
>





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 15:43:10 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:43:10 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu> <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003@news.service.uci.edu> <5L%cb.13662$yD1.1524835@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <fa39nvcehfp6h7vphpj7tf8lofuu8v5f15@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:42:28 -0400, "Sean Ross"
<sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

>
>"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
>news:eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003 at news.service.uci.edu...
>> Your proposed name has an implication for the semantics.
>
>Do the implied semantics of ireverse() differ from those implied by the
>names iter_backwards(), reverse_view(), riter(), etc.?
>Because, to me, they' re just different words for the same idea.

So far as I can see, it is having the function rather than the method
that creates the issues - that originated with David Abrahams post (at
least tracing back through this thread - it had been suggested
before).

However, your reply was implicitly supporting the use of a function
rather than a method. If 'ireverse' is imported from 'itertools' then
it cannot be a method of the object being reversed.

I think some wires have been slightly crossed - David Eppstein raised
a good point, but should perhaps have aimed it at David Abrahams.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From uce at ftc.gov  Fri Sep 12 14:14:10 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:14:10 -0400
Subject: Printing a Tk canvas under windows
Message-ID: <_tGdnRIQmtdtkf-iXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

I was surprised that I couldn't find enough information out there to get 
this to work. Just enough to make a mess ;-). The code below just starts 
spitting out what I guess is postscript code, seperated by line feeds 
but not carrage returns, so they run right off the page. Certainly 
nothing graphical.

...
printerName = win32print.GetDefaultPrinter()
printerHandle = win32print.OpenPrinter( printerName )
win32print.StartDocPrinter( printerHandle, 1, ("test", None, "raw" ) )
win32print.WritePrinter( printerHandle, canvas.postscript() )
win32print.EndDocPrinter( printerHandle )
win32print.ClosePrinter( printerHandle )

I got the same result with None instead of "raw".
The printer's an HP deskjet 930, if that helps.




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 17 13:13:09 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:13:09 +0200
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
References: <ef08387c.0309170801.4b299cf7@posting.google.com> <bka3if$8sj$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <bka4of$d9h$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Nicola Mingotti wrote:

> fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (Fortepianissimo) writes:
> 
>> I know I can do things like
>> 
>> s=Set(range(1,11))
>> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))
>> 
>> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a list which then must
>> be converted back to a set. Any tips? Thanks!
> 
> Can you ?
> I tried python2.3 and 2.2 and it replies
> : "NameError: name 'Set' is not defined" .

In 2.3 it works if you do

from sets import Set

first.

Peter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 30 11:37:44 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:37:44 -0400
Subject: intercepting smtp email
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj6j3dv1di62b@news.supernews.com> <blc6f3$3si$1@green.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <vnj8qip9k85a39@news.supernews.com>

".r!kard" <rnia at algonet.se> wrote in message
news:blc6f3$3si$1 at green.tninet.se...
> Now you got me corious, is that possible in python?
> Possibly by extending it with som C of course...

I've got no idea where you would put that kind of hook
in Windows.

John Roth

>
> .r!kard
>
>
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
> news:vnj6j3dv1di62b at news.supernews.com...
> >
> > ".r!kard" <rnia at algonet.se> wrote in message
> > news:blc1kt$ooe$1 at green.tninet.se...
> > > I'm no star at this but maybe you can check the code in
> > >   http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
> > >
> > > .r!kard
> >
> > I think he's asking for a mini-firewall. In other words, is something
> > he doesn't know about sending messages on port 25?
> >
> > John Roth
> >
> > >
> > > "Scott Hathaway" <scott at hcsprogramming.com> wrote in message
> > > news:c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2 at posting.google.com...
> > > > I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
> > > > traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can
do
> > > > something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
> > > > outgoing traffic, specifically.
> > > >
> > > > Any help is greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Scott
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>





From timothy.williams at nvl.army.mil  Mon Sep 15 11:45:31 2003
From: timothy.williams at nvl.army.mil (Tim Williams)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 08:45:31 -0700
Subject: stripping a string
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM> <mailman.1063499902.1786.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <faf44c99.0309150745.6723fb66@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063499902.1786.python-list at python.org>...
> If you want to remove all digits from the string, then use
> str.translate, not regular expressions:
>     import string
>     identity_transformation = string.maketrans('', '')
> 	
>     def remove_digits(s):
> 	return s.translate(identity_transformation, string.digits)
> 
> >>> s = 'ANL LN32'
> >>> remove_digits(s)	
> 'ANL LN'
> 
> If you want to remove digits from the end of the string, then use
> str.strip(), not a regular expression:
> >>> s.rstrip(string.digits)
> 'ANL LN'
> 
> Jeff

I don't understand. What's wrong with

>>> import re
>>> s = 'ANL LN32'
>>> s=re.sub('[0-9]', '', s)
>>> print s
ANL LN



From linuxlists at chargedideas.com  Mon Sep 15 06:10:44 2003
From: linuxlists at chargedideas.com (Andres Montiel)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:10:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pyc2py
In-Reply-To: <3F656561.6070701@ghaering.de>
References: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de>
        <3F656561.6070701@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <39324.202.175.228.157.1063620644.squirrel@webmail.chargedideas.com>

Hmmm... does this mean that any Python compiled can be decompiled? What if
someone was selling compiled Python programs. decompyle seems to be able
to decompile them.

Is there a way to make sure that compiled python code cannot be decompiled?

- Andres

> Thomas Guetttler wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> Is there a script which converts compiled python code
>> to human readable code?
>>
>> Google found no result for "pyc2py".
>
> Try this keyword: decompyle
>
> -- Gerhard






From indigomoonBLINDERS at bonbon.net  Sat Sep 20 00:35:32 2003
From: indigomoonBLINDERS at bonbon.net (Indigo Moon Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:35:32 -0600
Subject: py2exe web site
Message-ID: <bkgljf$1lglu$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>

What has happened to the py2exe web site?  I'm getting a 'Cannot find
server' error when I try to go there.  It was working just the other day I'm
pretty sure.

This is the address I have for it...
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

Do I have the wrong somehow?  Thanks!

-- 
Remove BLINDERS to email me.
Audio Bible Online:
http://www.audio-bible.com/





From webmaster at python.org  Sat Sep 20 15:47:09 2003
From: webmaster at python.org (Aahz)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 15:47:09 -0400
Subject: starship.python.net DNS problems
Message-ID: <bkiart$cdj$1@panix3.panix.com>

There seems to be some kind of problem with Starship's DNS.  Until it's
fixed, please use the direct IP of 217.160.219.194
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From mike at nospam.com  Thu Sep 25 16:59:51 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:59:51 -0700
Subject: Getting C++ object from PyObject *
References: <fj65nvk1sqq0futtqg374r6917gbfqkb35@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bkvkvp$5om$1@sea.gmane.org>

Nikolai Kirsebom wrote:
> I'm using BOOST to integrate Python into our application.  Could

Usually *.python.c++ is a better place to discuss boost.python issues.

> someone tell me how I get hold of the C++ object (pointer to the
> object instance) from a PyObject *.
>
> Example:
> I have defined and exposed two C++ classes:
>
> class MyObjectA
> {
> public:
>   MyObject();
> };
>
> class MyObjectB
> {
> public:
>   MyObjectB();
>   void SetInput(PyObject *o);
> };
>
> In Python I'm able to write:
>
> pa = MyObjectA()
> pb = MyObjectB()
>
> to create an instance of each of the classes.
>
> Then using the exposed SetInput method of class MyObjectB:
>
> pb.SetInput(pa)

Unless you have a variety of different inputs to SetInput() you probably
want
void MyObjectB::SetInput(MyObjectA const&)

In that case boost.python will be able to do extract<MyObjectA
const>(object(pa)) by itself
along with some error checking you discuss later:

> How would I code the SetInput method:
>
> void MyObjectB::SetInput(PyObject *o)
> {
> //Check that type of 'o' is an (instance) object of class 'MyObjectA'
> //Fetch the pointer (reference) to the actual instance of MyObjectA
> MyObjectA * ca = .....
> }

Also you might want some lifetime control with_custodian_and_ward<1,2>() to
prevent pa from garbage collection while it's used in pb.

HTH,
Mike







From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 11:37:16 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:37:16 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it> <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vjbbnvg1h61oeb9ghjhtst8b6jbdb7emni@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:35:10 +0100, Stephen Horne
<$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>set of standard protocols (forward, bidirectional, random etc) which
>all include subscripting.

Oops - I've got subscripting on the mind just now. I meant
dereferencing of course.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 25 08:17:42 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:17:42 +0200
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkumfg$ifj$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

> I read a webpage via urllib2. The result of the 'read' call is of type
> 'str'. This string can be written to disc via
> file('out.html','w').write(html). Then I write the string into a Memofield
> in an Access database, using adodbapi. If I read the text back I get a
> unicode string, which can not written to disc via file(...) due to
> encoding problems. How do I have to decode the unicode string to get my
> original data back?

You have to know the encoding of the original file.

Assuming (1) you had western european characters including the euro sign,
(2) they were correctly translated into unicode and (3) you want them back
that way:

>>> s = u"??????".encode("iso-8859-15")
>>> s
'\xe4\xf6\xfc\xc4\xd6\xdc'
>>> print s
??????
>>> type(s)
<type 'str'>
>>>

Or more general:

unicodeFromAccess.encode(targetEncoding)

Peter



From _remove_jones57 at swbell.net  Wed Sep 17 01:05:57 2003
From: _remove_jones57 at swbell.net (sj)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:05:57 GMT
Subject: Can Python Module Locate Itself?
Message-ID: <VYR9b.1109$c17.866@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>

I have written several small shell utilities in Python and typically use 
comments at the start of the source file as documentation. A command line 
option allows the user to read this documentation.  The problem is that I 
have to explicitly code the source files location within the source which 
is not very portable.  Is there anyway for a python module to locate its 
own source ?

Thanks 



From wtrenker at shaw.ca  Sun Sep 14 12:33:49 2003
From: wtrenker at shaw.ca (William Trenker)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:33:49 +0000
Subject: Huh?!?!? What is it that I'm seeing here?
In-Reply-To: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>
References: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20030914163349.03e187a6.wtrenker@shaw.ca>

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:45:16 +0000 (GMT)
Don Bruder <dakidd at sonic.net> wrote regarding Huh?!?!? What is it that I'm seeing here?:

> if __name__ == '__main__':
>   run(argv[1:])

The above code reads something like this: if the name of the current module is __main__, then invoke the run method with the parameter to run() being a list of the remaining arguments on the command line, excluding the argument that is the name of the python script to be executed.

The name of a module is set by Python to the value __main__ when the module is invoked from the command line.  So if I have a command line like this:

python boink.py arg1 arg2 arg3

then the code for boink.py will be loaded and run.  Since boink.py was loaded from the command line it will be given the module name __main__ and so the if statement will succeed. The run method will be invoked with argv[1:] expanded like this:

run(['arg1', 'arg2', 'arg3'])

(argv[0] is the value 'boink.py' from the above command line example.)

Hope that helps,
Bill




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 05:14:41 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:14:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: dumb q: repeated inheritance in python?
References: <a8623416.0309111319.14334945@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F467BCD2CA5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin) wrote in 
news:a8623416.0309111319.14334945 at posting.google.com:

>  What I'd really like to do is inherit this same object
> twice, but the second time rename the objects so that I get 'name2'
> instead of 'name'.  (And somehow rename the functions, and so on.)

I'm not sure if I exactly understood what you want, but does this help?
I think you are asking for two properties that access differently named 
attributes but perform the same type checking in each case. 

That sounds to me like you want a specialised property which can be done by 
subclassing it:

---- begin test.py ----
class Name(property):
    def __init__(cls, attrname):
        
        def setnm(self, nm):
            if isinstance(nm, str):
                setattr(self, attrname, nm)
            else:
                raise TypeError("Name passed to %s isn't a string" % 
self.__class__.__name__)

        def getnm(self):
            return getattr(self, attrname)

        property.__init__(cls, getnm, setnm)


class TwoNamed(object):
    def __init__(self, iname='', jname=''):
        self.iname, self.jname = iname, jname

    name = Name('iname')
    name2 = Name('jname')

x = TwoNamed('ivalue', 'jvalue')
print "name, name2 =",x.name, x.name2

x.name = 'www'
x.name2 = 'xxx'

print "name, name2 =",x.name, x.name2
print "iname, jname =",x.iname, x.jname

x.name = 42 # Blows up
print x.name # Never reached.
----- end of test.py ----


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From mpeuser at web.de  Sun Sep 21 05:41:59 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:41:59 +0200
Subject: Tkinter cursor question
References: <vmq6a09ffl4c4@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bkjrmp$o7t$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Gary Richardson" <garyr at fidalgo.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:vmq6a09ffl4c4 at corp.supernews.com...
> I would like to define a new cursor for use on a Canvas (other than one of
> those listed in Appendix F of "Python and Tkinter Programming"). A search
on
> Google turned up one bit of code that seemed promising. A slightly
> simplified version is shown below. This code attempts to eliminate the
> cursor by defining an invisible one, which is not what I want, but I
thought
> it might be a start. However, it doesn't run; the statement t = Text(...)
> generates an error message: TclError: bad cursor spec "@testcursor white".
> The testcursor file is being created in the current directory.


This is rather tricky - you will have to look through Tcl manuals, e.g.:

http://dev.scriptics.com/man/tcl8.3/TkLib/GetCursor.htm


You find there:

@sourceName maskName fgColor bgColor
    In this form, sourceName and maskName are the names of files describing
cursors for the cursor's source bits and mask. Each file must be in standard
X11 or X10 cursor format. FgColor and bgColor indicate the colors to use for
the cursor, in any of the forms acceptable to Tk_GetColor. This form of the
command will not work on Macintosh or Windows computers.

@sourceName fgColor
    This form is similar to the one above, except that the source is used as
mask also. This means that the cursor's background is transparent. This form
of the command will not work on Macintosh or Windows computers.

@sourceName
    This form only works on Windows, and will load a Windows system cursor
(.ani or .cur) from the file specified in sourceName.

Kindly
MichaelP





From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Sep 22 01:29:09 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:29:09 GMT
Subject: Passing data out of a Sax parser
References: <fe5nmv0mno1ib23ifekntp3v3u2er5bstt@4ax.com> <SxNab.10403$BS5.7382@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <878yohajyc.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <FMvbb.1967$gR1.320@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Me:
> >     if name == "spam":
> >         self.count += 1

John J. Lee:
> Works, but integers aren't mutable.

I assume you refer to the snippet I posted above?

Since it works, I don't understand the need for
your comment.

True, integers aren't mutable, so += does nothing
to the integer.  Since __iadd__ isn't defined, the
Python runtime turns it into the equivalent of

self.count = self.count + 1

and so does what is expected.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep  8 15:11:52 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:11:52 -0400
Subject: What is marketing?
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
 <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062983352.15417.python-list@python.org>
 <qnY6b.42704$R32.1360114@news2.tin.it> <eIMX/kKkXswV092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1063044013.17856.python-list@python.org>
 <Uc47b.46580$R32.1483053@news2.tin.it> <KGNX/kKkX4cC092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <4RNX/kKkXgeM092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|> The neutral word that Alex is looking for is 'promotion', which has a
|> subtle but important difference from the dirty word.

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote previously:
|Nope -- it's "marketing" as defined in textbooks of economics

Ahh... that begs the question[*].  I do not believe that Economics is
the relevant field to consult as to the purpose of the python.org
website.  Economists give only economic answers to questions, and that's
not the particular song-and-dance that interests me (FWIW, I've
published in an Economics journal, and taken graduate economics
courses--albeit suspiciously lefty ones--so my eschewal comes from
something other than simple ignorance).

If we decide our textbook should be one about Sociology, or Psychology,
or Anthropology, or Communications, the false generality for the term
'marketing' evaporates.  IOW, I'm more interested in what Thorstein
Veblen would say than in what Ludwig von Mises would say :-).  Or for
that matter, I'd rather consult Erving Goffman.

Yours, Lulu...

[*] Has anyone else noticed how horribly misused this phrase has
become... including in a televised ad series by Adobe for Acrobat.

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.

-
   _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
  _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
 _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep 15 19:41:06 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:41:06 -0400
Subject: unreferenced (???) variable; prob. simple
References: <mailman.1063654161.1263.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k9-cnQQP5aeI0_uiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>

"Halfdan Holger Knudsen" <s011362 at student.dtu.dk> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063654161.1263.python-list at python.org...
>goodday all - here's a snippet of code that just doesn't seem to
work...at
>all! But I haven't got the faintest idea why I keep getting an unref.
>local var. error.

When asking a question about 'why do I get this error message', please
copy and paste the complete error message, including the traceback.

TJR





From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Sep  7 15:02:55 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:02:55 +0200
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjfvo5$1to$03$1@news.t-online.com>

dan wrote:

> I was recently surprised, and quite shocked in fact, to find that
> Python treats negative indices into sequence types as if they were
> mod(length-of-sequence), at least up to -len(seq).
> 
> This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.
>  One of the big advantages of a high-level language such as Python is
> the ability to provide run-time bounds checking on array-type
> constructs.  To achieve this I will now have to subclass my objects
> and add it myself, which seems silly and will add significant
> overhead.  If you want this behavior, how hard is it to say a = b[x %
> len(b)] ??
> 
> Can anyone explain why this anomaly exists, and why it should continue
> to exist?

After you have recovered from the shock, you probably will admit that 
(1) the most common "out of bounds" case is caught:

>>> l = list("abc")
>>> l[3]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IndexError: list index out of range

and 
(2) that accessing elements from the end of the list is something you will
soon appreciate:
>>> l[-1]
'c'
>>>

>>> l[-2:]
['b', 'c']
>>>

I think that more code enjoys the beauty of accessing the end of a list than
suffers from uncaught <0 index errors. See the possibilities rather than
the danger :-)

Peter




From list-python at ccraig.org  Mon Sep 15 09:24:52 2003
From: list-python at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 09:24:52 -0400
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <bk2okk$nrhg9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <38ec68a6.0309142310.30c09f9f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <t1wekyi9obf.fsf@kermit.wreck.org>

afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere) writes:

> I am alone in feeling some slight unease at the sight of "while 1: ...
> break"?  I know this is considered somewhat pythonic, but apart from
> the fact that there is only a single assignment statement is there
> really any advantage to be gained by doing it this way?  It seems to
> be trading one aesthetic disadvantage for another, and imho, a
> marginally less legible one.

While I agree with you, I don't think I'd bother with changing thel
language now to fix it.  If I were writing a new language I'd prefer a
loop-and-a-half structure something like this:

repeat:
  stuff
while test:
  stuff

I'd really prefer something like the above without the second colon.
While it's nice to have the condition dedented for readability, it
isn't really starting a new block.  At any rate, I don't think adding
this to the current language is worth it, so I'll keep using "while 1:
break" structures and translating to the above in my head.

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <list-python at ccraig.org>
"So we who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members
one of another."  Romans 12:5 (NASB)





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Sep  4 23:02:19 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:02:19 -0500
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
In-Reply-To: <T7WV/kKkXoAN092yn@gnosis.cx>
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com> <bj30il$eoev7$2@ID-125932.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1062542045.14859.python-list@python.org> <w4WV/kKkXY/L092yn@gnosis.cx> <T7WV/kKkXoAN092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <20030905030219.GA2023@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 12:32:19AM -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> Yeah... and perhaps the word 'disingenuous' will be removed from future
> editions of popular dictionaries; and then we will lack a concise way to
> describe "special pleading" of this sort.  I think it's unlikely though.

Hey, big fella.  I'm on your side.  I was just playing devil's advocate
for a moment.

Jeff




From danielk at aracnet.com  Tue Sep  2 09:03:25 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 06:03:25 -0700
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com> <bisagv$24f$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <r659lvsk5ug0606bo3009raangb52g32rh@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:04:39 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
wrote:

>Daniel Klein wrote:
>
>> ...and then somewhere in some script I use...
>> 
>>     self.getthing()
>> 
>> to get whatever 'thing' I want to get.
>> 
>> Isn't there a better way to do this in Python? I hate doing these
>> 'get' type methods. The seem ugly to me.
>
>You can use properties, which simplifies the client code at the cost of an
>extra line in the class definition, e. g.:
>
Thanks. You and Alan Gauld provided the same answer, which seems to be
the best approach.

Dan



From not at home.org  Wed Sep 17 13:04:04 2003
From: not at home.org (Dfenestr8)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 02:04:04 +0900
Subject: Mandrake Linux 9: Why isn't bsddb working?
Message-ID: <bka45f$q6rg1$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>

I started off trying to use bsddb with my standard mandrake 9 python 2.2.1
package. The shell reported back no such module. Strange, thinks I. I
thought it was standard in the package, it was when I was using Windows.

So I uninstalled Python, downloaded the latest python 2.3 and compiled it
from source.

Now when I try to import bsddb, I get this error......

>>> import bsddb
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", line 40, in ?
    import _bsddb

What might I have done wrong, and/or what should I do to fix it? 



From alkirke1 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 11 21:55:01 2003
From: alkirke1 at comcast.net (Al Kirke)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:55:01 GMT
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>        <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>        <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>        <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>        <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>        <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>        <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>        <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>        <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>        <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>        <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>        <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org>        <000b01c37824$c972de10$3a0ff10c@teaset> <mailman.1063290822.30564.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VH98b.420355$Ho3.66640@sccrnsc03>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063290822.30564.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Al> MY children were taught to handle firearms safely beginning age 5.
>     Al> Are yours?
>
> No, we're more intelligent than that.  We have no guns in our house.
>
> Why is this on c.l.py anyway?

It shouldn't be on the python group..  It was off-topic and I
should not have replied.

But in winding up, the fact remains that there is and has always
been a violent criminal element in  society, and none of us
expect this to change.  That being the case, without handguns
is there any protection against those elements?

The only statistics I know of that compare convictions of  Texas
carry-concealed license holders to convictions in the general
population are from the Texas Department of Public Safety.

http://www.tsra.com/DPS_convictions.htm

About a year ago a constable pulled me over for speeding. The
procedure for a driver is to hold both his drivers license and his
concealed handgun license out the window for the officer to
observe as he approaches.  Texas police are in general comforted
by the appearance of concealed handgun licenses, because
these guarantee that a convicted felon is not driving that car.

My (very) pretty daughter was in the car, and as the constable
was writing out the ticket, he spent some time telling my daughter
that the world is nastier now that it once was, and that she
should seriously consider getting her own CHL.

Remember, when you and your family are driving late at night,
that you're only a timing belt away from meeting new and
exciting people.

Cheers,

Al





From claird at lairds.com  Fri Sep  5 10:19:33 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:19:33 -0000
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <b68f71a7.0309050551.469cab6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlh6rlh8svmd5d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <b68f71a7.0309050551.469cab6f at posting.google.com>,
Alan James Salmoni <alan_salmoni at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>had a profound effect on all of us. Call this extremely geeky, but I
>love the idea of tinkering around with the old machines described in
>that book. I'll have to search for a simulator when I get a spare few
>hours! I found it full of detail (not too technical, but lots of
			.
			.
			.
The opportunities here are greater than you might realize.
There's a great deal of amateur "retro-computing" activity:
enthusiasts with PDP11s in their basement, and so on.  A
distinct, but equally engaging area, is that of emulators;
wonderful work has been done to recreate the behavior of
antique systems.  While some of it is ill-maintained, I
try to point to only the highlights in <URL:
http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.os.misc/emulators.html >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From anand_soliton at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 21:02:39 2003
From: anand_soliton at yahoo.com (Anand)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 18:02:39 -0700
Subject: Python C extension: Value different if passed as list than if passed as number
References: <3f5dc178.0309101343.256bb7f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f5dc178.0309101702.46a4ff58@posting.google.com>

My bad. I wanted to do a inplace memory write for an int. so 

i = 0;
func(i);
print i;

======
output = 1.

The funny thing is python doesnt use 0 as 0. instead it points to a
memory location whose value = 0.

Since in my inplace replace, i changed that value from 0 to 1, 
test[0] actually became test[1] :))

so i had tons of strange behavior happening. I shouldnt have made an
immutable object as mutable.



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep  8 17:52:49 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 22:52:49 +0100
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com> <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com> <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87u17nne1a.fsf@pobox.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
[...]
> * The tinyurl website can become a bottleneck, preventing people from
>   getting where they want to go.  The tinyurl.com website seems to be fairly
>   unreachable for me at the moment, though this is the first time I've seen
>   this, and it appears to be a problem more with Northwestern's connection
>   to the net than tinyurl.com's.

Apparently not: I can't reach it either.


> * There's no guarantee tiny urls will remain unique or even available for
>   long periods of time.  Their current practice of using four lower-case
>   letters suggests they have space for about 450,000 unique URLs before
>   extending to a fifth letter.

Good practice to give both URLs, I suppose -- easier to cut-n-paste
the tinyurl, but the original one has a better chance of still working
later.


John



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Sep 25 14:38:20 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:38:20 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[sebastien]
> So, I'd expect to have a riter() function which would call the
> __riter__ special method.

Okay, changed pep to list riter() as an alternative.


> And I still think you don't need it often enough to put it in the
> builtin namespace, so the function should go in the itertools module.

If you have a magic method, __riter__, then the corresponding
function needs to be a builtin.  They go hand in hand.  The
core parts of the language need to be usable without having
to know about itertools.


Raymond





From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep  4 03:54:55 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 07:54:55 GMT
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <roy-0F3EF6.00055904092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jdC5b.15926$R32.537671@news2.tin.it>

Roy Smith wrote:

> Jules Dubois <bogus at invalid.tld> wrote:
>> My "Software Engineering" class votes again tomorrow on the language we
>> use
>> for our group project.  Tuesday's vote was Java (8 votes), Python (5),
>> C++
>> (3), and Smalltalk (1); Thursday's vote will be between Java and Python. 
>> I get the opportunity to learn one or the other in a week.
> 
> How many votes does a language need to get to be elected Governor of
> California?

Given that they vote in a sensible way (runoff between the top two
candidates, rather than "first past the post") you can't directly
compare the two elections.  (You can get the same results as with a
preliminary vote + runoff by such methods as STV and Condorcet --
the whole issue was discussed in depth last spring on this group
regarding the ternary operator vote -- but that's an issue only if
arranging for voting twice is costly or inconvenient).


Alex




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Sep 26 06:13:12 2003
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:13:12 +0200
Subject: Successful installation of mod_python on Apache on Win2k?
In-Reply-To: <cfd500a9.0309251610.3427181f@posting.google.com>
References: <cfd500a9.0309251610.3427181f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl13fs$iug$1@swifty.westend.com>

Rolfe wrote:
> 3. When I created and ran the following script shown at
> http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/inst-testing.html, my
> browser displays the full text of the script instead of running the
> script:
> "from mod_python import apache
> 
> def handler(req):
>     req.write("Hello World!")
>     return apache.OK"
> 
> 4. I've read Troubleshooting and FAQ, triple-checked my http.conf
> file, and still can't get it to work.
> 
> ANY SUGGESTIONS?

This is my working conf (on Linux, though):

LoadModule python_module       modules/mod_python.so

<Directory /usr/local/apache2/htdocs/test>
   AddHandler python-program .py
   PythonHandler mptest
   PythonDebug On
</Directory>

/usr/local/apache2/htdocs/test/mptest.py works. If you have an
analogous conf, it might be an OS related issue.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 14:04:45 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:04:45 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:55:28 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
wrote:

>Obviously, your example could easily be rewritten to
>
>def inc(p):
>    return p + 1
>
>x = inc(x)
>
>and a similar function with two by-ref parameters would still be readable:
>
>x, y  = inc2(x, y)
>
>So here's my question. How many functions are there in your *real* code that
>could benefit from, say three or more by-ref parameters?
>Hint: for me it comes close to 0 :-)

Its not an issue of whether the same effect can be achieved in Python.
It's more an issue of whether the method used expresses the
programmers intentions properly.

If a function is defined as...

  def Inc (p) :
    return p + 1

then that to me expresses an intention which is different to that
expressed by...

  def Inc (ref p) :
    p += 1

The latter case expresses the intention to in-place rebinding of the
parameter. In doing so, it better expresses the purpose of some kinds
of functions (though not this noddy example, obviously).

This is all very fuzzy, so let's examine an example which is based on
an issue in some real Python code (though this is simplified to make
the point). The problem is to insert an object into some container -
appending to a list will do here. However, the object being inserted
will typically be quite large, so we want to avoid copying it if
possible.

No problem there, it seems...

  class c_Container :
    f_List = []

    def Add (self, p_Object) :
      f_List.append (p_Object)

The problem with this, however, is the risk of accidental
side-effects. If the caller goes on to modify the object that he
passed as a parameter, that will change the content of the container.

So how can rebindable parameters help with this?

One approach would be to make the function rebind the parameter to
either None or some kind of read-only proxy object. If the caller
tried to modify the object after passing it in, he'd very quickly get
error messages. They may seem cryptic, but they'd be better than the
strange hard-to-trace errors you get with accidental side-effects.

Having figured out what the problem is, the caller simply has to make
a copy of the object himself (or use a variant of the function that
does the copying itself).

  class c_Container :
    f_List = []

    def Add (self, ref p_Object) :
      f_List.append (p_Object)
      p_Object = None
      # p_Object = Read_Only_Proxy (p_Object)

    def Add_Copy (self, p_Object) :
      f_List.append (copy.deepcopy (p_Object))


The point of the ref parameter here is not just to allow information
to be passed to the caller from the function - it is to ensure that
the source of the specific parameter passed in gets rebound. The
intention to 'give away' that object would be expressed by the 'ref'
in the call...

  l_Container = c_Container ()
  l_Object    = Get_The_Object ()

  l_Container.Add (ref l_Object)

Actually, an 'in' or 'give' modifier might make even more sense here
(very different to C# - I can't imagine a reason for an 'out' modifier
in Python).

Where such problems occur, this is by no means foolproof of course.
For example...

  l_Container   = c_Container ()
  l_Object_Ref1 = Get_The_Object ()
  l_Object_Ref2 = l_Object_Ref2

  l_Container.Add (ref l_Object_Ref1)

  l_Object_Ref2.Mutate_Somehow ()

However, it would probably catch a very substantial portion of real
accidental side-effect errors.

>By the way, this is strictly from a user perspective, I trust the Python
>developers to overcome the implementation issuses, *if* there is a
>significant usability improvement.

And that is the big question.

C# 'needs' ref parameters because it has no convenient way to return
multiple values from a function. Python does not. The question is
really whether this argument about expressing intentions and evading
errors is compelling or not.




From essai1 at mci.local  Mon Sep 29 18:28:02 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:28:02 +0200
Subject: data encoding for Python COM interface
References: <bl94sp$ctm$1@hyppo.gu.net>
Message-ID: <blabfl$e9b$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

In other environment (windows + Paradox/objectPal +COM-python-script), i do
:

    import locale
    CodingParDefaut = locale.getpreferredencoding()

         def  XYZ(self, argu):        # public method
                chaineretour = argu.encode(CodingParDefaut))
                return chaineretour

This work  (encode in entry to COM-python  nothing at return).
Perhaps can you find in an idea ?


* sorry for my bad english *


@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau





From lutz at rmi.net  Thu Sep 11 16:48:07 2003
From: lutz at rmi.net (Mark Lutz)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 13:48:07 -0700
Subject: Learning Python, 2'nd Edition, O'Reilly
References: <8e6e8e5d.0309101814.393a8ed0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ec0babcc.0309111248.54925be8@posting.google.com>

rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens) wrote in message news:<8e6e8e5d.0309101814.393a8ed0 at posting.google.com>...
> Does anyone know when this is due to be released? I am assuming that
> this version will cover Python 2.3, and be the first book to fully do
> so.
> 
> Ron Stephens

Not exactly, but the late-October-to-November
timeframe is as good a guess as any.  Last I 
heard, it's now in the production pipeline.

It will be a 2.3 book, despite what some of the
marketing might say (we started it awhile ago).

For a few more words, here's a web page I 
posted in response to email queries:

http://www.rmi.net/~lutz/about-lp2e.html

Cheers,
Mark Lutz (www.rmi.net/~lutz)



From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 18 13:48:35 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:48:35 +0200
Subject: Streams causing heap crash using Python C-Extensions
References: <ee04f1ee.0309161604.2f13c59b@posting.google.com> <ee04f1ee.0309180909.17e7cc90@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ceuf0ng.fsf@python.net>

batraraj at hotmail.com (Raj Batra) writes:

>> I'm using Python2.2.2, with Visual C++ 7 (.NET). The error occurs using
>> both pythonwin and the standard command line python.

I don't know whether you can use C++ stream I/O in a Python extension or
not, but if you use MSVC7 to compile the extension, your Python must
also be compiled with this one (generally).

Thomas



From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Mon Sep  1 14:26:28 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 01 Sep 2003 20:26:28 +0200
Subject: imports after function definitions?
References: <HBF.20030828usgy@bombur.uio.no> <JNmdnSh2beWiTdOiXTWJhA@comcast.com> <HBF.20030829y2nd@bombur.uio.no> <3F4F9021.354CDD2D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030901xik1@bombur.uio.no>

Thanks for all the answers.

Peter Hansen wrote:
>Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
>> I'm setting sys.path in a config function which depends on variables
>> near the end of the file.  So the config function must be called late,
>> and the imports that depend on it after that.
> 
> Sounds like the structure ought to be changed (IMHO).

OK, I did.  Moved the sys.path setting out of the config function.

> In other words, why do you need all those defines and all those
> variables to come before the imports?

I needed the config function to be called before the imports since
it set sys.path, and the config function should be able to access
some variables.  So the imports had to come after it, and after
those variables.  I thought it looked better to have the imports
at the end of the program than in the middle of it.

Never mind, though.  Now I have them right after the config function.
I want that one at the beginning because that's what people need
to edit.

-- 
Hallvard



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 05:26:54 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:26:54 GMT
Subject: How to pass parameter to a module?
References: <Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174@twister.southeast.rr.com> <8ef9bea6.0309182328.5c040595@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yZzab.7463$9G2.6340@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Thank you!

"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:8ef9bea6.0309182328.5c040595 at posting.google.com...
> "M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174 at twister.southeast.rr.com>...
> > I'd like to parametrize a module. That is, to set and pass
> > some values into the module, while it is being imported.
>
> There are many ways.
>
> (However, classes may fit your need better. "Passing parameters to a
> module" is not a common practice, as far as I know.)
>
> (1) Use a built-in namespace variable.
>
> import __builtin__
> __builtin__.myvar = 3
> print myvar
>
> This is a hack. I have been screamed at for mentioning it. :)
>
> (2) Hack your favorite (non-builtin) module. The module could be any
> of the standard library modules, or your own third module.
>
> import sys
> sys.myvar = 3
>
> (3) Use environmental variables.
>
> import os
> os.environ['myvar'] = 'hello'
>
> You get the idea. Python has three namespaces: built-in, global, and
> local. Since global and local namespaces won't go over to the other
> module, you need to rely on the built-in namespace, one way or
> another. How you want to structure your data (by using the built-in
> namespace, a module, a class, a dictionary or any other entities that
> can hold a name entry), it's entirely up to you.
>
> Hung Jung





From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Sep 17 07:49:59 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 13:49:59 +0200
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
References: <mailman.1063575859.4786.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyf4qzbljmg.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Rob Hunter <rhunter007 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Is there an equivalent to Scheme's LET in Python?
>  LET creates a new binding in the current
> environment.  For example, here's some Scheme
> code:
> 
> (let ((x 3))
>   (let ((f (lambda (arg) (* arg x))))
>     (let ((x 4))
>       (f 5))))
> 
> So, this program, which also tests that Scheme
> has correct scoping, returns 15.

Sorry, never heard of "correct" scoping[*]. I've heard of lexical and
dynamic scoping though, and, to me, your code shows that Scheme has
lexical scoping.

> And in Python, I can write an equivalent program
> that does correctly return 15, but I have to use
> what, in Scheme, we call "left-left lambda"--a
> way of simulating LET.  Or rather, LET is
> syntactic sugar for left-left lambda.

A long, time ago (Python 2.0), Python only had 3 scopes: local, global
and builtin. Now it has nested scopes of arbitrary depth (still
wrapped inside global and builtin), but I'm not expecting "let" to
appear anytime soon.

[*] But given that you are formulating your question from a Scheme
    perspective, it's not really surprising that you call it
    "correct". :-)



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep  9 11:13:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:13:10 -0500
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
In-Reply-To: <hawkfish-96D864.15285508092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
        <mailman.1062774119.18681.python-list@python.org>
        <hawkfish-96D864.15285508092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <16221.60934.194086.18486@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Richard> Yes, that is the problem, but it is not clear how to release
    Richard> the connections.  They get released immediately when the script
    Richard> terminates.  I am wondering of it is a gc problem.

How about you explicitly tack an explicit

    exit;

onto the end of the input?

    % mysql -u concerts -h localhost -p concerts
    Enter password: 
    Welcome to the MySQL monitor.  Commands end with ; or \g.
    Your MySQL connection id is 440197 to server version: 3.23.41-log

    Type 'help;' or '\h' for help. Type '\c' to clear the buffer.

    mysql> exit;
    Bye

Skip




From dickey at saltmine.radix.net  Tue Sep  2 09:06:38 2003
From: dickey at saltmine.radix.net (Thomas Dickey)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 13:06:38 GMT
Subject: curses! trouble with pads and panels
References: <bj1cp2$ctr$1@news.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <bj24ku$ic3$1@news1.radix.net>

Edmond Ho <edho at nospam.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Hi, I'm having trouble with a small curses program. I'm associate a pad with
> a panel. As I understand, a pad is supposed to be just a window with an
> arbitrary size. That seems to imply that a pad can be treated like a normal

not exactly - some special handling is needed in the library to make it
treat pads like a normal window.  Your example may be a case where it's
not implemented.


-- 
Thomas E. Dickey <dickey at radix.net> <dickey at his.com>
http://dickey.his.com
ftp://dickey.his.com



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Sep 30 15:03:28 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:03:28 -0600
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
In-Reply-To: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com>
References: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030930130109.03299928@66.28.54.253>

At 12:57 PM 9/30/2003, Dominik Kaspar wrote:

>i'm used to java and its strict way of defining variables. so how is
>it possible to reach something like a class variable in python?
>with the following code i didn't have much succes...
>
>class Server(threading.Thread):
>     running = 0  (??)
>
>     def run(self):
>         running = 1
>         while running:
>             print "do something here..."
>     def exit(self):
>         running = 0

prefix running with the class name:
           Server.running =1
           while Server.running:
         ...
          Server.running = 0

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003

From lunqual at gmx.de  Tue Sep 23 13:02:09 2003
From: lunqual at gmx.de (Karlheinz klingbeil)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:02:09 +0200
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bkpuaj$rg5$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> All my mailboxes have been filling up with files of about 130k to 150k, no
> doubt copies of some immensely popular virus.  So, I've no doubt lost lots
> of real mail because of "mailbox full" conditions (the proliferating fake
> bounce messages more or less ensure nobody knows their mail to me has
> bounced, either).
> 
> As an emergency response I and Anna developed, over the last half hour, a
> small Python script to be run from cron every few minutes and
> automatically
> scrub any POP3 mailbox from files in the target size range.  I'm saving
> them to a local file for potential later perusal, but that's obviously


I have made a quick and dirty pop-cleaner, mor configurable with size, regex
to deny and regular pattern match to explicitly allow mails
look at http://www.lunqual.de/popclean.zip (only 3kb)

-- 
Greetz.... lunqual
http://www.lunqual.de



From news at yebu.de  Fri Sep 19 09:35:25 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:35:25 +0200
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
In-Reply-To: <4fd6e92.0309190518.3b226735@posting.google.com>
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com> <4fd6e92.0309190518.3b226735@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkf0nd$10dm0$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

Bill wrote:

> [...]
> path = 'C:\\YourPath\\YourFile.txt'
> filename = 'gfe.pdf'

is this correct? Shouldn't path contain the directory only?
Otherwise what's the content of YourFile.txt then.

Karl




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Sep  4 02:44:23 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 06:44:23 GMT
Subject: questions
References: <HnWdnRoKt7GUP8uiU-KYgg@kconline.com>
Message-ID: <3f56dec8.372921773@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:22:55 -0500, "Andy"
<Hoosbruin at Kconline.com> wrote:
>  Can you use Python to access SQLServer... if so do you have an example.

Yes, look at the DAtabae section of the Python web site for info

>   What are the strengths and weaknesses of Python.?

Look at the language comparisons section of the Python website

>    Is it like vbscript ?

Not to look at, but yes in that they are both interpreted and
Python can do most of the things VBSCript can do - plus a lot
more that VBScript can't.

>  Example code of things that it's good at.... to get me started

Visit the "Useless Python" web site for small sample code
snippets.

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From asl2 at panix.com  Thu Sep 18 10:56:42 2003
From: asl2 at panix.com (Aaron Lav)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 10:56:42 -0400
Subject: ASN.1 source reader
References: <3F69B497.CEF764ED@siemens.com> <8765jqurh3.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bkch3a$hig$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <8765jqurh3.fsf at pobox.com>, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
>Tomas Kukosa <tomas.kukosa at siemens.com> writes:
>
>>   does anybody know any way how to read ASN.1 source into Python?
>> I can not find any ASN.1 parser.
>
>http://www.panix.com/~asl2/software/PyZ3950/index.html
>
>Aaron also links to another couple of ASN.1 libraries there.

The current public release of PyZ3950 doesn't include a usable parser
for ASN.1 specifications.  My current sources do, and I hope to make a
public release soon (mostly a matter of documentation, since I wrote
the code for a client who only needed to compile the Z39.50-200x
spec): I'd certainly be happy to make a prerelease available to anyone
interested.

       Aaron (asl2 at pobox.com)




From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep 25 18:04:15 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:04:15 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <AYwcb.2766$RW4.2047@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <wCGcb.3062$yU5.1076@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <zDJcb.3273$RW4.678@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Raymond Hettinger:
> Beauty and clarity are a matter of taste and we differ here.
> To some (including me), s[::-1]  looks more like line noise
> than s.iter_backwards().

Understood.  In all this, let me make it clearthat I
have a preference for a function over a method, but won't
call it a wart of the BFDL thinks otherwise.  I point these
out because I'm rather detail oriented.

> > Also, a variant implementation may be even more concise,
>
> You must be pretty confident to take on the Timbot's code  ;-)

Well, I did say "may".  I wouldn't really want to use it since
inverting the score before the sort is a tricky thing to see and
somewhat unexpected.

(I'm half expecting some enlightening comment about how
negation has subtle interactions with IEEE 754 math -- though
I thought the point of 754 was to make naive approaches like
mine usually correct.  :)

> >       verfiles = os.listdir('/usr/lib/setup')
> >       verfiles = [name for name in verfiles
> >                                if name.startswith("slack-version-")]
>
> I like your version better and recommend you submit it as a patch.
> I'll take out the ifilter() comment.

But that goes against the pretty good motto of "if it ain't broke,
don't touch it."  Granted, XP-style tests are supposed to
help out with that, but I don't have a /usr/lib/setup where I
can test this.

> > ] random.shuffle() uses for i in xrange(len(x)-1, 0, -1)
> > This isn't a use case.  The xrange never returns a 0 while
> > the iter_backwards one will.
>
> It is an important use case.  The replacement code is:
>
>   for i in xrange(1,len(x)). iter_backwards()

Ahh, right.  Didn't think about that.  You should include that
wording in the PEP.

> Whenever the indices have any complexity, the forwards version,
> followed by .iter_backwards() is, IMHO, much easier to mentally verify.

I agree.  When I do need to go backwards I often forgot to get
both -1s in place.  Ie, I'll do (n, 0) instead of (n-1, -1).
Well, don't forgot much and more, but there's some tension in
my mind as I worry if I got it correct or not.

> BTW, don't underestimate the intensity of resistance to adding
> new builtins.

For me it's two things: remembering what all these new things
do, and attempting to adhere to the 'don't use variables with
the same name as builtins' guiding philosophy.  I don't adhere
to the latter wrt the type named 'file'.

> Also, I have a preference for creating something that
> is as robust as possible.  Making a builtin function that
> doesn't apply to all objects; behaves badly with mappings;
> and crashes with an infinite iterator is not my idea of robust.

The backup which uses __getitem__ and negative offsets
does work for all objects, behaves exactly as badly as the
existing iter, and doesn't crash with an infinite iterator, no?

It's slow, but if you want the performance, make an __riter__.

> I really don't understand the overpowering urge to make this a function
> and add a new magic method protocol.  Why isn't there a similar rage
> against dict.iteritems()?

Overpowering?

My preference is for a function because of:
  - similaraties to iter, which is also a function
  - there are many types of iteration orderings, and not all can be
      special cased methods.
  -  I don't see backwards iteration as all that important

As for iteritems, I was annoyed about it because it meant my
dictionary-like code would become more complicated to
implement, until I came across UserDict.DictMixin, which
lets user-defined code implement just a few methods then
builds the rest from there.

That suggests a UserList.ListMixin might be useful, but it
isn't obvious to me that it would be.

I also note that items is a method so by similarity it makes
sense that iteritems also be a method.  Additionally, many
things offer forward iteration, while only dicts offer items.

Should dicts support riteritems, ritervalues?

> Okay, we simply disagree here.  That's fine.

Yup.  I don't think I have anything useful or even interesting
to offer to this dicusssion.  I also think that with these changes,
the PEP is pretty complete and solid.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Wed Sep  3 09:49:11 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:49:11 +0200
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87n0dmj82w.fsf@flibuste.net>

ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses) writes:

> Hi,all
>
> I use wxPython make a bittorrent client. I find wxPython very slow and
> use many many memory.
> When app start, it need 19MB memory. I only use common GUI components.
> Python is a really good
> programming language. But how to do a small,smart, efficency GUI in
> win32,it's a big question.

An solution is to make a web application and use a tiny browser like
kmeleon.

bye

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From post400 at prontomail.com  Thu Sep  4 16:30:27 2003
From: post400 at prontomail.com (post400)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 13:30:27 -0700
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com> <871xuyowxv.fsf@pobox.com> <b15d2792.0309040501.25ea3191@posting.google.com> <3f573bda.396747703@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <b15d2792.0309041230.510fba02@posting.google.com>

alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld) wrote in message news:<3f573bda.396747703 at news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> On 4 Sep 2003 06:01:21 -0700, post400 at prontomail.com (post400)
> wrote:
> > see how expensive some books are in Europe compared to US.
> 
> Where in Europe? I'm in the UK and prices on Amazon.co.uk are not
> significantly higher than the US site (ie nothing like double!)

In France !
Have a lokk at this:
on amazon.fr ...

Prix de vente conseill? au Royaume-Uni* :
 ?27.42  /  EUR 39,61
Notre prix :  EUR 39,61

and on amazon.com

Code Complete: A Practical Handbook of Software Construction
by Steve C McConnell

Price: 	  	$24.50 which is almost half of 40? !

Ok maybe 40? is not that much but it's just not nice to see such a difference !

> 
> > is that most american sites don't ship to Europe or the taxes are
> > enourmous.
> 
> I've bought several books from the US(Barnes & Nobles,
> Amazon.Com, and others). Taxes have never been significant. The
> only real snag is the 4-6 week wait for shipment.
> 
> Alan g.
> Author of the Learn to Program website
> http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From tcronj at ananzi.co.za  Tue Sep 23 15:41:19 2003
From: tcronj at ananzi.co.za (tertius)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:41:19 +0200
Subject: IE or Netscape com access
Message-ID: <3f70a1cc$0$64727@hades.is.co.za>

I want to use IE or Netscape to print my documents which are in HTML 
format.

Whould com/activex be the way to do it?

Are there examples of how I can acieve this?

Many thanks
Tertius




From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Tue Sep  2 04:31:51 2003
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:31:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
References: <3285.208.224.10.29.1062445601.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net> <mailman.1062448983.22163.python-list@python.org> <bj0tgc$e4kup$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bj1khn$iu9$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

Cousin Stanley <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:
: |     import Tkinter as tk
: |
: |    class GuessWidget(tk.Frame):
: |        def __init__(self, value, *args, **kw):
: |
: |            tk.Frame.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
: | ....

: Jp ....

:    Thanks for posting this example script ....

:    How does one change the  title
:    of the sub-classed frame ????


Hi Stanley,

Frames don't have titles, but toplevels do.  Try using the 'title()'
method of the toplevel widget.  For example:

###
from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
root.title("Hello world!")
frame = Frame(root)
Label(frame, text="This is a test!   Hello!  Can you see this?").pack()
frame.pack()
mainloop()
###

There's more information on this from Fredrik Lundh's "An Introduction
to Tkinter".

    http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x9843-style-methods.htm

Hope this helps!



From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Sat Sep 13 09:55:49 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:55:49 -0400
Subject: datetime: How to get diff between 2 dates in month units?
In-Reply-To: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624715@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>
References: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624715@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>
Message-ID: <20030913095549.042d767d.python@sarcastic-horse.com>

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:50:53 -0500
"Pettersen, Bjorn S" <BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com> wrote:

<snip>

> No, but I do have one question..: would diff.months be valid given d1
> and d2 above (which also contain a day part)?


I'm not certain I understand. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I
want a datetime object that has months as its smallest unit, just like
datetime.date has days as its smallest indivisible unit.


> If so, what would it be given the dates 3/1/2001 - 1/30/2001; i.e. is a
> month 1/12 of a year, or until the same day next month (with special
> rules for end-of-month)?

My data is monthly-frequency, so when I do 2001m3 - 2001m1, it would
return 2.


> If you answer no to the first question then your very close to a (year *
> 100 + month) representation...

I will probably end up using something like this.  But before I build
that, I wanted to check around if I wasn't missing a more obvious solution.

Also, after I've got monthly data objects, I'm going to need to be able
to do the same thing for quarterly data.

 
> -- bjorn
> (time series data is fun ;-)

Amen to that.  Especially when it comes to handling weird stuff like
leap years and holidays that can be in different months.






From stuff at slinkp.com  Thu Sep  4 15:24:49 2003
From: stuff at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 12:24:49 -0700
Subject: Zope mailing lists dead ?
References: <bj7ghb$1ebf$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <f575e202.0309041124.59ea6436@posting.google.com>

"Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:<bj7ghb$1ebf$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>...
> Hi,
> 
> I didn't receive anything from the various Zope mailing lists I should
> receive.
> 
> zope at zope.org
> zope-cmf at zope.org
> zope-dev at zope.org
> 
> Other subscribers can confirm or have I got problems ?

One or two messages have trickled through... but the server is
clobbered with the latest round of sobig.  See this thread:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=7h3ptigg8ul.fsf%40pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dgroup%253Acomp.lang.python%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

The zope lists are run at python.org so they are affected by this.



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Sep  4 15:03:12 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:03:12 -0500
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
In-Reply-To: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com> (soundwave56@yahoo.ca's
 message of "3 Sep 2003 13:42:24 -0700")
References: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2smncl6kv.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Hank" == Hank  <soundwave56 at yahoo.ca> writes:

    Hank> Hi, I have a CSV file from excel that looks like this
    Hank> (simplified):

    Hank> name,description,type1,type2,name,filename test1,this is a
    Hank> test,0.000,1.000,, test2,another
    Hank> test,1.000,0.000,newname,filename test3,this is a
    Hank> test,0.000,1.000,, test4,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
    Hank> test5,this is a test,0.000,1.000,, test6,this is a
    Hank> test,0.000,1.000,,

I posted some code recently to parse CSV into a dictionary where you
can extract rows or columns by key or index number.  It's not exactly
what you asked for, but might help

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=mailman.1058882602.32583.python-list%40python.org&rnum=4

John Hunter




From timh at zute.net  Wed Sep 10 10:41:23 2003
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:41:23 +0800
Subject: Reportlab Image object opens filehandles
In-Reply-To: <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
References: <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <3f5f36de$1@news.highway1.com.au>

Have a look at limit (or in csh ulimit)

256 open files is the default limit for a user/process. (all about 
conserving resources) you can make this bigger (much bigger ;-) assuming 
you have permissions.

Rgds

Tim

Michael Schmitt wrote:

> Hello.
> 
> I am trying to build a pdf document using:
> ---
> from reportlab.platypus.flowables import Image
> lst = []
> for filename in imageFiles:
>     I= Image(filename, width= 300, height= 300)
>     lst.append(I)
> ---
> Creating an Image object seems to open a filehandle, so if the size of 
> imageFiles increases, I get "IOError: [Errno 24] Too many open files" on a 
> Solaris machine, where the number of simultaneously opened filehandles 
> seems to be limited to roughly 255.
> 
> Is there a way to produce a pdf document with a large number of images 
> without running into the problem of too many open filehandles?
> 
> Thanks for any hints.
> Michael
> 
> 




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 19 20:06:53 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:06:53 -0400
Subject: os.environ and os.path.chdir
References: <bkg2l2$aj3s$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <3F6B9A1D.EB4F9558@engcorp.com>

Yun Mao wrote:
> 
>    How to make changes to os.environ and os.path.chdir still effective after
> I run the script? Currently, the changes are only good within my script. I
> would like the shell who called python myprog.py also gets the change..

Is there some Python programming course where all you guys are
coming from lately?  :-)  This question seems very popular this week.

As John Roth just replied to one of your potential classmates :-),
"Look at the thread "Setting Environment Variables" that started
yesterday in the early morning." ... and note that the comments
about environment variables apply equally to the current directory,
as both are properties of the calling shell and can be changed only
by scripts run by that shell.

-Peter



From http  Fri Sep  5 13:40:00 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 10:40:00 -0700
Subject: in Ram database?
References: <mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list@python.org> <3f58bae9$0$13287$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xn0djrv67.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Romuald Texier <lab-nospam at elikya.com> writes:
> Why not just use Dictionaries, or an object tree? Why do you want tables or
> SQL abstraction if it is "in-memory"? Nothing else but your app will be
> able to access the "live" data, anyway.

I think it would be useful to have an in-memory database that could be
used by multiple processes through a shared memory interface.



From gventer at africonnect.com  Tue Sep  2 14:12:40 2003
From: gventer at africonnect.com (Gerhard Venter)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:12:40 +0100
Subject: win32all for 2.3
In-Reply-To: <AKEEKJILDKFCCMNOPEPDIEBKDHAA.geary@adobe.com>
References: <AKEEKJILDKFCCMNOPEPDIEBKDHAA.geary@adobe.com>
Message-ID: <3F54DD98.80200@africonnect.com>

Michael Geary wrote:

>Gerhard Venter wrote:
>  
>
>>I need to get *win32all* for 2.3 quite urgently.  It should be at
>>http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html
>>However, the starship site seems to have disappeared, even from DNS.  Is
>>there any other way I could get the file?
>>    
>>
>
>Starship is up, but it seems to have dropped out of DNS. Try the IP address
>instead:
>
>http://217.160.219.194/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html
>
>And win32all-155 (for Python 2.3) is here:
>
>http://217.160.219.194/crew/mhammond/downloads/win32all-155.exe
>
>-Mike
>
>  
>
Thanks, I got the file earlier from Alan Kennedy, but it is good to know 
the site still exists.  I posted a reply to thank him, but I have only 
just realised this list is one of those where if you just hit Reply it 
does not go to the whole list....

Gerhard









From SPAMtbone at freegates.be  Sat Sep 20 17:37:56 2003
From: SPAMtbone at freegates.be (Philip)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:37:56 +0200
Subject: DB2 driver for windows
Message-ID: <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>

Hi,
i'am looking for a db2 driver for windows
the DB2 servers runs on as400 if that makes any difference.

Thanks,
Philip



From toby at rcsreg.com  Sun Sep 14 16:42:34 2003
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:42:34 GMT
Subject: checking type of my own objects
Message-ID: <db65c3606f4aa39dd8459eb92fa5f5e4@news.teranews.com>

Hi,

I have a module that defines a few classes.
one of them is Event.  If I do:

	e = Event()
	print type(e)

I get back:

	<class 'score.Event'>

now to check to see whether a given object
is an Event or not, I could parse the string
output of type, but that does not seem correct.

What is the best way to check the type?

Thanks,

Tobiah




From patrick at fraley.de  Tue Sep 23 10:21:31 2003
From: patrick at fraley.de (Patrick W. Fraley)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:21:31 +0200
Subject: TKinter and findertools.launch
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.23.14.21.30.963830@fraley.de>

Hi everybuddy,

I am experiencing some really weird problems when using the findertools
from an Tkinter app (MacPython 2.2.3).

When I start another application (i.e. a Browser), the Application starts
behaving strangely.  It does not seem to continue until I switch back and
forth between it and the Tkinter app.  Only then will it continue (for
example load a web page).

Has anybuddy here experienced something like this?  Where can I find some
more info on the findertools, besides giving me a list of methods and what
they are used for?

I tried the MacPython mailinglist, but never get any answers.

Please help.

TIA
Patrick W. Fraley



From mnations at airmail.net  Thu Sep 11 15:59:38 2003
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 12:59:38 -0700
Subject: Canvas - Rectangle. Is there an easy way to detect if you're inside?
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0309111159.7a9bb539@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I've been using the canvas quite a bit lately, and I am wondering if I
am just missing a quick trick somewhere.

With most canvas objects you can bind then to mouse functions and
quickly determine if you are selecting them. However, the rectangle
(and I'm sure all other objects that aren't solid) only register if
you actually hit the frame of the object, if it's transparent. If you
fill it with color then it will register anywhere.

At the moment I am doing as series of if-then statements involving
coordinates and the positions that the rectangles hold to determine if
the mouse is somewhere inside the rectangle. However it would be much
simpler if there was a way to quickly recognize the internal area of a
rectangle using a canvas function.

Is there an easier way to do this? I've looked at all the canvas
functions and none really make this process easier unless the
rectangle can auto-recognize itself.

Many Thanks,
Marc



From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Tue Sep 30 15:04:35 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:04:35 GMT
Subject: intercepting smtp email
In-Reply-To: <blchun$o5u$1@green.tninet.se>
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj6j3dv1di62b@news.supernews.com> <blc6f3$3si$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj8qip9k85a39@news.supernews.com> <5Uieb.49566$Lw6.2263065@phobos.telenet-ops.be> <blchun$o5u$1@green.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <7tkeb.49855$CW5.2223199@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

It seems you've looking where I've earlier this week ;-) I'm affraid 
there's nothing for Python on Windows yet.

.r!kard wrote:

> Google rules:
> http://home.student.utwente.nl/g.v.berg/btk/

This one is for unices only, no Windows.

> http://pycap.sourceforge.net

 From the Todo.txt file:

* Make this work on Windows.  I briefly struggled with compiling using 
VC7 under Win XP
   using winpcap_ and LibnetNT_.  No luck, and was getting some rather 
interesting errors
   about missing header files which appeared to be where they should be :-/.

> http://www.ghaering.de/python/unsupported/pylibpcap/

This could be a candidate if it were available for Python 2.3.x . It's 
for Python 2.2 only now.

> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/1578279
Further down the thread: 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/1578500
Gerhard H?ring wrote:
 >  http://www.ghaering.de/python/unsupported/pylibpcap/
 >  I'll check if the sniff.py example will work, too.

It doesn't look like it does. I may have introduced a subtle bug or some
more changes are needed to make it useful under win32.

If anybody wants to continue the win32 port, it's open source and you
can continue where I stopped.

-- Gerhard

Out of luck again :-(

> 
> *pheew* that was some real hardcore Googeling I can tell you...
> 
> .r!kard

>><snip>
>>
>>>>>>>I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
>>>>>>>traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can
>>>
>>>do
>>>
>>>>>>>something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
>>>>>>>outgoing traffic, specifically.
>>
> 
> 




From b.preusing at web.de  Sat Sep  6 15:07:59 2003
From: b.preusing at web.de (Bernd Preusing)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 21:07:59 +0200
Subject: Need help on UNICODE conversion
Message-ID: <5lbklvgtlm6l4e1n51tnbin151drrh4410@4ax.com>

Hi,

today I (Python beginner) ran into a problem:^

I have a JPG file which contains some comment as unicode.

After reading in the string with s=file.read(70) from file offest 4
I get a string which is shown as
'UNICODE\\0x00\\ox00K\\0x00o' and so forth in the debugger
(using Komodo).

How do I convert such string to a real unicode string and to
a windows_1252 or latin1 afterwards? I know it's a text with
german umlauts.

I tried this:
if rawdata[:7] == "UNICODE":
                ustring = rawdata[7:]
                us2 = unicode(ustring, "windows_1252")
                as2 = us2.encode("windows_1252")
                self.dic["ComUNI"] = rawdata

But all I get on each stage is a normal string with lots of  \\0x00.

TIA
  Bernd




From Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr  Fri Sep 26 12:38:34 2003
From: Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:38:34 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
Message-ID: <20030926163834.GP28349@calvin>

Logilab has released pylint-0.2

What's new?
-----------

In addition to a large number of bug fixes, this release adds two new
checkers, for missing encoding declaration, and for FIXME comments. Zope
support was improved. 

About Pylint
------------

Pylint is a lint-like tool for Python code. It performs almost all the
verifications that pychecker does, and additionally can perform some
stylistic verification and coding standard enforcements. The checked
code is assigned a mark based on the number and the severity of the
encountered problems. The previous mark of a given piece of code is
cached so that you can see if the code quality has improved since the
last check. 

URLs
----

Homepage: http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint
Download: ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/pylint/pylint-0.2.tar.gz


-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations




From raindog at no.spam.net  Tue Sep 16 00:52:43 2003
From: raindog at no.spam.net (Rain Dog)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:52:43 GMT
Subject: a quick program to download tv listings
References: <1f0bdf30.0309102237.d29f0de@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vGw9b.467116$Ho3.79195@sccrnsc03>

In article <1f0bdf30.0309102237.d29f0de at posting.google.com>,
 prochak at netzero.net (Erik Lechak) wrote:

> Is there anyone out there that has written anything in python to
> download tv listings (no XML)? ... I wrote the test
> program below and it works.  I am just curious if anyone has a more
> robust python implementation before I take the time to add all the
> bells and whistles.

Here's a version that uses an HTMLParser and does its own filtering
by channel, rather than setting a cookie.

Some sample output:

% tvsearch "college football" news

College Football                          ABC  7     12:30 PM Sat Sep 13
College Football                          CBS  2     12:30 PM Sat Sep 13
Eyewitness News                           ABC  7      4:00 PM Sat Sep 13
CBS 2 News at 5:00                        CBS  2      5:00 PM Sat Sep 13
College Football                          ABC  7      5:00 PM Sat Sep 13
Channel 4 News                            NBC  4      5:00 PM Sat Sep 13
CBS Evening News                          CBS  2      5:30 PM Sat Sep 13


---------- 8< ---------- 8< ---------- 8< ---------- 8< ----------

#!/usr/bin/env python

import formatter, re, time, urllib
from htmllib import HTMLParser


# Channel lineup (leave empty to search all channels)
CHANNELS = [2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 18, 22, 30, 32, 34, 35, 36, 39,
    40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 50, 57, 62]

# Yahoo location code
LOCATION = 'us_CA57315'

# Yahoo TV listing URL
YAHOO_TV_URL = ('http://tv.yahoo.com/grid?lineup=' + LOCATION
    + '&starttime=%(epoch)d&.intl=us')


class Show(object):

    '''Just a structure to hold program information'''

    __slots__ = ('name', 'channel', 'station', 'start', 'end')

    def __init__(self, **kwargs):
        for k, v in kwargs.items():
            self.__setattr__(k, v)

    def __str__(self):
        showTime=time.strftime('%I:%M %p %a %b %d', time.localtime(self.start))
        if showTime[0] == '0':
            showTime = ' ' + showTime[1:]
        return '%-35s  %8s  %-4d  %-s' % (self.name, self.station,
            self.channel, showTime)


class YahooTVParser(HTMLParser):

    '''Minimal HTML parser for Yahoo TV listings'''

    showRE = re.compile('\/tvpdb\?d=tvp&id=(.*)')
    showInfoRE = re.compile('(\d*)&cf.*channels=us_([^&]*).*'
        '&chname=([^\+]*)\+(\d+)&progutn=(\d*)')

    def __init__(self):
        HTMLParser.__init__(self, formatter.NullFormatter())
        self.shows = []
        self.inShow = 0

    def start_a(self, attrs):  # <A> handler
        '''If the tag's HREF matches showRE, record the show info.'''
        self.newShow = None
        self.showName = ''

        # Check if the HREF matches a show.
        for k, v in attrs:
            if k == 'href':
                url = ''.join(v.split('\n'))
                if self.showRE.search(url):
                    m = self.showInfoRE.search(url)
                    if m:
                        # Create a new Show--its name isn't known yet.
                        self.newShow = Show(start=float(m.group(5)),
                            channel=int(m.group(4)), station=m.group(3))
                        self.inShow = 1
                    break

    def end_a(self):  # </A> handler
        '''If done with a show, record its name and add it to the list.'''
        if self.inShow and self.showName:
            self.newShow.name = self.showName
            self.shows.append(self.newShow)
        self.inShow = 0

    def handle_data(self, text):
        '''Handle the data between, e.g., <A> and </A> tags.'''
        if self.inShow:
            self.showName += text

 
def getGrid(epoch):
    url = YAHOO_TV_URL % vars()
    parser = YahooTVParser()
    parser.feed(urllib.urlopen(url).read())
    parser.close()
    return parser.shows
 

def findShows(patterns):
    isMatchingShow = None
    if patterns:
        nameRE = re.compile('|'.join(['(%s)' % n for n in patterns]), re.I)
        if CHANNELS:
            def isMatchingShow(show):
                return (show.channel in CHANNELS) and nameRE.search(show.name)
        else:
            def isMatchingShow(show):
                return (nameRE.search(show.name) is not None)
    elif CHANNELS:
        def isMatchingShow(show):
            return (show.channel in CHANNELS)

    THREE_HOURS = 3 * 60 * 60
    ONE_WEEK = THREE_HOURS * 8 * 7
    startTime = int(time.time())
    endTime = startTime + ONE_WEEK

    for h in range(startTime, endTime, THREE_HOURS):
        allShows = getGrid(h)
        # Print matching shows sorted by starting time.
        if isMatchingShow is not None:
            shows = [(s.start, s) for s in allShows if isMatchingShow(s)]
        else:
            shows = [(s.start, s) for s in allShows]
        shows.sort()
        for t, s in shows:
            print s


def main():
    import os.path, sys

    args = sys.argv[1:]
    if '-h' in args:
        sys.stderr.write("Usage: %s [PATTERN]...\n"
            % os.path.basename(sys.argv[0]))
        sys.exit(1)

    try: findShows(args)
    except KeyboardInterrupt: pass
    sys.exit(0)


if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 00:33:27 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:33:27 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <r2Qbb.195$eB.185@twister.southeast.rr.com>

If it was up to me, I would propose

until <condition>:
    <statements>

as an equivalent to:

<statements>
while not <condition>:
    <statements>

and

loop:
   <statements>

for the enless loop, instead of ugly 'while True'.

M-a-S

PS. And I'd introduce the switch construction of course.






From max at alcyone.com  Mon Sep  8 12:55:21 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 09:55:21 -0700
Subject: More Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1063013172.28780.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F5CB479.318229AC@alcyone.com>

Tim Parkin wrote:

> Just in case people didn't realise, there is a py-design-forum at :- 
> ...

Didn't you just say you were done talking about this on
comp.lang.python?

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
\__/  (an Arab proverb)



From jhf at hex.no  Tue Sep  2 16:45:30 2003
From: jhf at hex.no (Jørgen Hermanrud Fjeld)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:45:30 +0200
Subject: Compiler C or Python?
In-Reply-To: <7h3vfsbh1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <20030826213316.GA7285@unpythonic.net> <mailman.1062498963.22409.python-list@python.org> <7h3vfsbh1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20030902204530.GA23853@hex.no>

On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:37:03AM +0000, Michael Hudson wrote:
> jhf at hex.no (J?rgen Hermanrud Fjeld) writes:
> > And in general, if should want to alter the Python compiler, should
> > I start with the Python or C version?
> 
> Whichever's easiest :-)  This is usually the Python one.
>
Then I shall start with that one. Are there any other arguments/reasons to
choose one or the other? That is technicalities one should consider.

> A toy that might come in handy is an interactive mode (based on
> code.InteractiveConsole) that compiles input with the customized
> compiler.
Thanks, this can make the task at hand a lot easier.

> > As far as I can see from your email the Python version is easier to
> > modify, but why two compilers? Isn't that a lot to maintain?
> 
> The Lib/compiler/ package is pretty slow.  Also, making that the only
> compiler might lead to irritating bootstrapping problems (which I now
> see Jeff talked about...).
Yes, but the code it generates will be fast enough for my purposes.
Do you happen to know how consistency between the compilers is maintained?

Sincerely
J?rgen




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 05:13:25 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:13:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <slrnap4tni.18h.grante@localhost.localdomain> <GpScb.123559$hE5.4229137@news1.tin.it> <slrnap5gfa.aol.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Xns940266209AF26duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in 
news:slrnap5gfa.aol.grante at localhost.localdomain:

>> I _think_ (can't be sure...) that at a C-libraries level the switch
>> occurred either between DOS 1.0 and 1.1, or at the time of release of
>> 2.0.
> 
> I don't think 1.0 had a hierarchical filesystem at all did it?  

That is correct, originally DOS like CP/M didn't have a concept of 
directories, all file access used file control blocks. When they added 
directories in Dos 2.0 they added new int21 calls which supported the 
directory paths and these have always accepted either forward or reversed 
slashes as path separators interchangeably.

Dos 3.0 added an int21 call to canonicalize pathnames which included 
converting all forward slashes to backslashes.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Thu Sep 11 03:48:39 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:48:39 +0200
Subject: socket error 10061
Message-ID: <00b701c37839$1d3027b0$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

Hi,

Upon running my program via the command line I get the above error.
Weirder is the fact that upon running the same code from within
ActiveState's PythonWin's
IDE - I get no error and the code smoothly completes its running.

any idea ?

thx
~B





From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Tue Sep 30 18:05:32 2003
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 15:05:32 -0700
Subject: eval's local arguement ignored?
References: <56e1eff0.0309230923.1215833f@posting.google.com> <21064255.0309260745.6d3d5650@posting.google.com> <56e1eff0.0309300536.51fdf2b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <21064255.0309301405.5ac8f828@posting.google.com>

jseb at cs.mcgill.ca (Jean-S?bastien Bolduc) wrote in message news:<56e1eff0.0309300536.51fdf2b0 at posting.google.com>...
> > **kwa** is the solution!
> > 
> > In your factory-function *foo* you have to declare *a*
> > keywordarguement which is initialized with a.
> > 
> > >>> def foo():
> > ... 	a=1
> > ... 	f=lambda x,a=a:a*x
> > ... 	return f
> 
> Not exactly what I'm looking for, I'm afraid. A more complete picture
> is this: I'm writing a class such as this:
> 
> class Foo:
>   def __init__(self, fnc, **params):
>     ...
>   def evaluate(self, val)
>     ...
> 
> That has to be instantiated as, e.g.:
> 
> x = Foo( 'lambda x : a*x', dict( a = 2. ) )
> 
> so that "x.evaluate( 5. )" will return, in this case, "2.*5.".
> 
> The approach you describe will certainly work, but the thing is that
> this class will have to be used by people who don't necessarily know
> Python (yet). So I would really like the lambda function's parameter
> list to always be the same, whatever you put on its RHS.
> 
> Once again, I don't understand why the "eval", as described above with
> "globals" and "locals" arguments specified, will not work. Is there a
> way to modify a function's closure?
> 
> Thanks,
> JSeb

Sorry, I missunderstood you.
Since your last post I learned the further more two
parameters of the eval-function. I'm even not sure
if I checked the problem entirely, but let me try to
explain what I think I may have understood.

In the following function the eval-statement doesn't
really need the locals() to evaluate the lambda-function.
It really needs to tell the lambda where is its parent's
namespace - what is by default the modules-namespace which
one calls *globals()* - where to search for variables when
not found in the locals().

>>> def new_fn(fn_string):
... 	a=99999
... 	print locals()
... 	local_fun=eval(fn_string,globals(),locals())
... 	return local_fun
... 

I think the locals() are always the variables of a function's
body - in the above case of the function *new_fn*.

>>> f=new_fn('lambda x:(x*a,locals())')
will show that:
{'a': 99999, 'fn_string': 'lambda x:(x*a,locals())'}

So the following let us know what locals() means 
for the lambda-function:
>>> a=0
>>> f(10)
(0, {'x': 10})
>>> 
But *a* is found in the global-scope.
I'm not sure if this really helps you and the only
workaround for me is something I posted to you the last time.

What makes me more confused is the following example, where
the lambda-function is declared explicitly.

>>> def new_fn():
... 	a=99999
... 	print locals()
... 	local_fun=lambda x:(x*a,locals())
... 	return local_fun
... 
>>> f=new_fn()
{'a': 99999}
>>> a=0
>>> f(10)
(999990, {'a': 99999, 'x': 10})
>>> 

But I think that's what you did already.

PS: I here someone whispering something of *nested scopes*.

Regards
Peter



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sun Sep 28 20:09:37 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:09:37 -0700
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
References: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vneu22ad7lmr08@corp.supernews.com>

> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
> looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
> methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.
>
> I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
> it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.
>
> This is something I got use to in Smalltalk and have found it quite
> useful when working on several methods that work closely together.

It's good to be able to view more than one part of a source file, and of
course you'll want to rule out IDEs that don't meet your basic requirements.
But there are a lot of other things that can make you love or hate an
IDE--so why don't you download a few of them and try them out for yourself?
I tried all of the IDEs mentioned in this thread and quickly found that
Komodo fit my taste the best. (And it does let you view two portions of a
file at once--although it would be better if it allowed more splits than
that.)

I like PythonWin too, but the others didn't do it for me at all. Not getting
into a "which IDE is best" conversation :-) but a couple of my requirements
were ClearType support and an interface that wouldn't be confusing when
switching back and forth between a Python IDE and Microsoft Visual Studio.
Obviously, other people will have different priorities.

So go try out a few different IDEs--it didn't take very long for me to do
that.

-Mike





From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Mon Sep 29 13:46:36 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:46:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: warnings during installation of python2.3.1 on SCO_SV 3.2v5.0.5
References: <mailman.1064849749.13675.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bl9r5s$m5$3@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Roger Erens <r.erens at eurosys.nl> pisze:

>> uname -X
> 
> System = SCO_SV
> Node = ontwik2
> Release = 3.2v5.0.5
> KernelID = 98/07/02
> Machine = i80386
> BusType = ISA
> Serial = 5FL004745
> Users = 30-user
> OEM# = 0
> Origin# = 1
> NumCPU = 2
> 
>>ld -V
>  SCO UNIX Development System  Release 5.1.1A 27Jul98
> 395 /usrdir/rogere/Python-2.3.1
>>cc -V
> SCO UNIX Development System  Release 5.1.1A 27Jul98

I wouldn't be surprised, SCO systems is absolute crap. And they object
reality.

http://lwn.net/Articles/51374/

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:jarek at jabberpl.org http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From alkirke1 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  9 20:53:47 2003
From: alkirke1 at comcast.net (Al Kirke)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:53:47 GMT
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org> <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
Message-ID: <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

"Nick Vargish" <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote in message
news:m3k78j6v5e.fsf at tanelorn.bandersnatch.org...
> Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:
>
> >     Do this simple test.  Get an egg timer (or any other timing device).
> > Now set it to 4, maybe 5 minutes.  Now lock yourself in the closet.
>
> Counter-test: Imagine your seven-year-old son finding your gun and
> shooting and killing your five-year-old daughter while you're working
> in your study.

Impossible.  The son had been taught safe gun handling on
the pistol range w/ a .22 starting at aged five, and would
come and tell you that firearm had not been safely stored.

Al





From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep  8 12:16:37 2003
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:16:37 +0100
Subject: Ternary operator
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com>
 <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
 <mailman.1063023193.11506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4qznp862.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> writes:

>>It seems to me that the majority did want some kind of ternary operator, but
>>the large number of options prevented any one from being the clear winner. I
>>would wager that if the BDFL had picked his favorite from any of the most
>>popular options and said, "Now vote yes or no on *this* syntax", he would
>>have seen that clear majority he was looking for.

Actually, that's what Guido did do at first (IIRC). He proposed the
"expr1 if cond else expr2" form. The *community* argued against this
specific syntax, rather than concentrating on the semantics, and it
was only then that the discussion fragmented into endless discussions
over what syntax to choose.

>>I suppose this is all water under the bridge now, since the PEP stated that
>>this was the community's one and only chance. I just can't help but think
>>that the voting system guaranteed the outcome--but it's Guido's language and
>>it was certainly his call to make.

The voting system was designed by the community and so we can't blame
anyone but ourselves for "rigging" the outcome...

> THANK YOU. Your analysis of the process brings me a sense of relief. I
> was also confused and frustrated by its failure to deliver what
> (obviously) many of us wanted.

My feeling is that there is a majority who want a ternary operation
(not including me, but what the heck) but that there is violent
disagreement on the syntax.

> I was dismayed by the process being defined as "the community's one
> and only chance" and then set up to fail.

Well, I see it as Guido not really wanting to spend the time
implementing a ternary operator. He offered to, in any case, if the
community was in favour (and the PEP originally stated precisely what
he was offering). But with the proviso "if you don't like this, I'm
not going to offer again". I doubt he was surprised that the result
was a lot of discussion over syntax, rather than an acceptance of the
offer.

The general history of this issue is one of endless discussion with no
agreement. Maybe the majority would like the feature, but that same
majority can't agree on syntax. The PEP just forced one more iteration
of that process, and documented the result (lots of heated discussion,
but no solid conclusion).

Maybe it's a shame that Guido's original PEP wasn't preserved
unaltered. What's there now doesn't capture the flavour of the
original.

Of course, all of this is only my recollection, and just as prone to
being wrong as anyone else's...

Paul.
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep 27 12:56:25 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:56:25 -0400
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <DYecnbE8ncWnXOiiU-KYvA@comcast.com>

"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote
in message news:bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g at 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:28:02 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
> wrote:
> >A square-bracketed subscript (index/key) is a *single* object, in
this
> >case a tuple.  The contents of the tuple are irrelevant (for this
> >code).  Any  tuple will be echoed:
>
> I didn't see any sign that he wasn't aware of that.

Since you both missed the key points I tried to make, I will try be a
little clearer by being much wordier.

When a sequence is indexed with a slice expression, the interpreter
tries to immediately slice it.  From 2.2.1:

>>> def f1(): return c[:-1]
...
>>> dis.dis(f)
          0 SET_LINENO               1

          3 SET_LINENO               1
          6 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (c)
          9 LOAD_CONST               1 (-1)
         12 SLICE+2
         13 RETURN_VALUE

No intermediate slice object is even constructed.  Since stop is
negative, 'SLICE+2' must look up the length to do the subtraction.

When the index is a tuple, the interpreter does not try to slice:

>>> def f2(): return c[:1,:1]
...
>>> dis.dis(f2)
          0 SET_LINENO               1
          3 SET_LINENO               1
          6 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (c)
          9 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         12 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
         15 BUILD_SLICE              2
         18 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         21 LOAD_CONST               1 (1)
         24 BUILD_SLICE              2
         27 BUILD_TUPLE              2
         30 BINARY_SUBSCR
         31 RETURN_VALUE

For BINARY_SUBSCR, the contents of the tuple only matter when the
tuple is hashed.  Roberto prevented this with his custom __getitem__()
method.  Since slices do not hash, a tuple of slices is normally
useless and would give a TypeError if hashing were attempted.

> I would have expected, given that the tuple contains slice objects
> constructed from the multiple-slice notation, that the same
> translations would be performed on the slices that are inserted into
> the tuple that are applied when the single slice is created.

Slice objects and tuples thereof were added for use by Numerical
Python so it could slice multidimensional arrays stored as a single
linear array.  The length used for start or stop subtraction is the
length of each dimension, which is typically different for each
dimension.  Subtracting the total length is the *wrong* thing to do
for multiple slices.  Only custom code can know the correct factors of
that total length to use for each component slice.

In Roberto's example, there is no single slice created.  See
disassembly above and comment below.

> That is, whether the single or multiple notation is used, and
whether
> the slice objects are placed in a tuple or not, they are constructed
> from the tuple notation

Sorry, wrong.  Tuple notation for single slices givea a different
result.

>>> c[:-1] # this is *NOT* tuple notation
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: C instance has no attribute '__len__'

>>> c[:-1,] #
<type 'tuple'> (slice(None, -1, None),)

DING!  Here is how to get consistency.  Add the tuplizing comma.

Terry J. Reedy





From neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk  Mon Sep  8 10:59:53 2003
From: neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk (Neil Padgen)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:59:53 +0000
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bja8ls$k1j$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-542F88.08165705092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <bji5h7$bqo$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

On Friday 05 September 2003 15:17, Richard Wesley wrote:

> In article <bja8ls$k1j$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
>  Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On Thursday 04 September 2003 20:35, Richard Wesley wrote:
>> 
>> > p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
>> > p.write(sql_commands)
>> 
>> p.close()
> 
> Yeah, I tried this, but it had no effect.
> 
> The odd thing is that the process list cleans up _immediately_ when
> the
> script terminates.  Maybe this is some sort of gc problem?
> 

What is in sql_commands?  Maybe there is a semicolon missing from the
end, which might be causing mysql to wait for input.

-- Neil

-- 



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Sep 19 07:54:00 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:54:00 +0200
Subject: Access to Win API
In-Reply-To: <0c58d500ac94b27d7f8ff87a2a59f6e1@news.meganetnews.com>
References: <d541d61d12758a2b45ea1de78809beac@news.meganetnews.com>
	<mailman.1063964485.26108.python-list@python.org>
	<0c58d500ac94b27d7f8ff87a2a59f6e1@news.meganetnews.com>
Message-ID: <3F6AEE58.20904@ghaering.de>

Ladv?nszky K?roly wrote:
> Thanks for your help. I remember once I tried a Python cookbook sample code
> that included ctypes but now 'import ctypes' does not work.
> Should ctypes come together with the 2.3 installation? [...]

No, it's a third-party module that you need to download and install.

Google says it's at http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/, but 
the Starship seems to be down ATM [1]. Maybe somebody has the ctypes 
installer for Python 2.3 and can send it to you. I only have ctypes 0.2 
for Python 2.2 here ATM.

-- Gerhard

[1] Probably the recent virus flood bogs down the server :-/




From mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 30 14:18:44 2003
From: mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:18:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: printing to files in python
Message-ID: <35005.199.169.240.132.1064945924.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-

I want to print stuff like:

>>> "d1: %s, probability: %0.2f" % (d1, prob)

to a file, but when I do:

>>> str = "d1: %s, probability: %0.2f" % (d1, prob)
>>> outfile = open("out.txt", "w")
>>> outfile.write(str)

I get errors.  What am I missing?






From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 04:03:50 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:03:50 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <slrnap4tni.18h.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <GpScb.123559$hE5.4229137@news1.tin.it>

Grant Edwards wrote:
   ...
> Nope.  AFAIK, it's always accepted '/'.  I did C programming on DOS for
> years, and I always used '/' since it was too error working with string
> literals in C that contain '\'.  Those same programs seemed to run fine
> under Windows.
> 
>> Does anyone know when that change occurred?  Was it with the introduction
>> of support for long filenames in NT and Win95?
> 
> I'm not aware that there has ever been a "change".  '/' has been OK since
> the early DOS days.

I _think_ (can't be sure...) that at a C-libraries level the switch
occurred either between DOS 1.0 and 1.1, or at the time of release of
2.0.  It's hard to say, because MS didn't release a C compiler as a
product back then; however, it seems that, internally, they used C
compilers running on their Unix machines (presumably their own version
of Unix, named Xenix, which they later sold to SCO) to generate some
parts of the DOS stuff of that age.  The original QDOS ("Quick and
Dirty OS") that they bought out and resold as DOS 1.0 surely had no
knowledge of forward slashes -- it was basically CP/M disassembled,
hacked and reassembled (all quite illegally of course).  Just as surely,
DOS 2.0 had that knowledge (Allen had also hacked into it some Unix
idioms such as I/O redirection and pipes -- some "pipes", redirecting
to a temporary file and then back out of it!, but syntactically Unixoid --
and more generally made it an uneasy mixmash of some concepts and
practice from the CP/M world plus a little from Unix traditions); and
so did the first C compiler, self-hosted on DOS, that MS later sold to
the public (having bought it, I believe, from Lattice).


Alex




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Fri Sep 12 13:56:57 2003
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:56:57 -0700
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
In-Reply-To: <3f5e0963.369221532@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de><bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063106894.20701.python-list@python.org> <bjkkjp$jvkvt$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f5e0963.369221532@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <MNn8b.34613$S_.12386@fed1read01>

Alan Gauld wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:54:41 +0200, "Martin Schneider"
> <martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>>for i in range(len(fileList)-1):
>> for j in range(len(fileList)-i-1):
>>  if fileList[j+1] < fileList[j]:
>>   tmp = fileList[j]
>>   fileList[j] = fileList[j+1]
>>   fileList[j+1] = tmp
> 
> 
> I think you might tweak that by doing:
> 
> fileList[j],fileList[j+1] = fileList[j+1],fileList[j]
> 
> which misses out the intermediate tmp assignment.

Careful here. You'd have to time it to be sure, but the above is 
probably slower than what you're replacing.  The reason is that the
above creates an anonymous tuple then unpacks it. More or less 
equivalent to:

tmp = (fileList[j+1], fileList[j])
fileList[j], fileList[j+1] = tmp

I'd be tempted to do it anyway in all but the tightest loops as I think 
it's clearer.

-tim

> If you are gonna tweak the C you might as well tweak the 
> Python too! (But not with a real python, they tweak back 
> hard! :-)
> 
> Alan G.
> Author of the Learn to Program website
> http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld




From cnetzer at sonic.net  Sun Sep  7 05:10:31 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:10:31 -0700
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
In-Reply-To: <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>
	 <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
	 <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>
	 <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>
	 <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>
	 <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <1062925831.1855.10.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Sat, 2003-09-06 at 00:43, Steve Lamb wrote:

>     If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
> if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?

You still haven't responded to the rebuttals of this statement.  On the
face of it, it appears made up.  Can you explain?

-- 
Chad Netzer





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 04:33:08 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:33:08 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

>> And I still think you don't need it often enough to put it in the
>> builtin namespace, so the function should go in the itertools module.
> 
> If you have a magic method, __riter__, then the corresponding
> function needs to be a builtin.  They go hand in hand.  The
> core parts of the language need to be usable without having
> to know about itertools.

I have already seen module copy presented as a counter-example to
your assertion, and I'd like to add module pickle as a second, and
I hope decisive, counter-example.  It is, to put it simply, utterly
false that functions corresponding to magic methods "need to be
builtins": it's *perfectly* all right for such functions to live
in standard library modules.  Oh, and let's not forget module sets:
the __as_immutable__ and __as_temporarily_immutable__ magic methods,
that are used when making a set of sets, or checking for a set's
membership in another set, can be seen as yet another example (and
in this case there is no wiggling out of it by claiming that the
magicmethod/NON-builtin correspondence is a historical/legacy thing,
as the BDFL approved module sets.py, with just this usage, so very
recently).

I second the motion that function riter, with check for __riter__
and all, should live in module itertools.  Reverse iteration is a
RARE need -- far rarer than copying or even pickling -- and there
is no real reason to burden __builtins__ with a function for it.


Alex




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Sep 21 15:41:16 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:41:16 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
In-Reply-To: <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com>
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com>

jallan wrote:

> But that really doesn't work properly. According to Unicode specs and
> German usage the uppercase of "?" is actually "SS", that is the single
> character "?" should uppercase to two characters.

Can you cite exact chapter and verse of the Unicode specs that say so?
According to the Unicode database,

http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt

has neither an uppercase mapping, nor a lowercase mapping.

Also, in German, the uppercase mapping of ? is of ongoing debate.
For example, the Duden from 1919 says

| F?r ? wird in gro?er Schrift SZ angewandt [...]. Die Verwendung
| _zweier_ Buchstaben f?r _einen_ Laut ist nur ein Notbehelf, der
| aufh?ren mu?, sobald ein geeigneter Druckbuchstabe f?r das
| gro?e ? geschaffen ist.

The usage of SZ has only been eliminated in the recent change of
the amtliche Rechtschreibung.

Regards,
Martin




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 06:02:39 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:02:39 +0100
Subject: Python ISPs
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6AD43F.8BEFC26E@hotmail.com>

Paradox wrote:
> Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed.

Check out the Python hosting Wiki. The "SpecializedCommercialHosts"
page lists three hosting companies that support mod_python.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/SpecializedCommercialHosts

If you know of any others that are not listed there, then please add
the information to that wiki.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From stefnin at alussinan.org  Thu Sep 25 06:40:12 2003
From: stefnin at alussinan.org (Stéphane Ninin)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 10:40:12 GMT
Subject: pilconvert script disappeared ?
Message-ID: <Xns94017FEE09C9Bstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.32>

  Hello,


I have just installed python 2.3 with many other libs, including PIL,
(from http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/), 
version 1.1.4 for Python 2.3b1.

Am I dreaming or has the script pilconvert.py disappeared from the free PIL 
distribution ? 
Can I find it somewhere else ?

   Thanks, & regards,

-- 
St?phane Ninin
 







From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Sep 28 07:13:35 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:13:35 GMT
Subject: Meta programming question
References: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <znzdb.132998$hE5.4530954@news1.tin.it>

Bruce Dickey wrote:

> I've read a number of the meta progamming articles. I have not found
> what I am looking for. I want to override assignments to variables which
> are in the module namespace (not object members -- no classes involved).
> Can this be done?

No (not without, as somebody already suggested, rewriting substantial
portions of Python's C-level implementation).  A module-level statement

    <name> = <expression>

evaluates the expression, and sets the name to refer to its value -- no
ifs, no buts, no overriding, and nothing to do with metaprogramming.


Alex




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Sep 10 03:52:31 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:52:31 -0700
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known atruntime?
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <3F5ECDE2.40206@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <3F5ED83F.48E7DB60@alcyone.com>

Max M wrote:

> Is there any reason not to use a standard factory pattern for this? It
> is the normal approach.

Because introspection means you don't have to keep a separate list of
all possible values updated.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ An undevout astronomer is mad.
\__/  Edward Young



From dakidd at sonic.net  Thu Sep 25 14:55:34 2003
From: dakidd at sonic.net (Don Bruder)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:55:34 GMT
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
Message-ID: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net>

A week or two ago, I asked here about porting Python to C. Got some good 
answers (Note 1) but now I've got another question. Actually, more a 
request for clarification of a topic that both the Python tutorial and 
docs leave a touch murky to my understanding.

Dictionaries/"dict" types...

Am I understanding/interpreting correctly when I go with the idea that a 
"dict" variable can be looked at as (effectively) two parallel arrays? 
Something like this C construct:

struct DictStruct
   {
      char    *KeyArray[<somenumber>];
      ValType ValArray[<somenumber>];
   }

Where "ValType" would be likely be a union, to allow 
assigning/retrieving the actual values correctly depending on what their 
individiual types were, and "<somenumber>" is just that: Some 
more-or-less arbitrarily selected value that provides enough space to 
handle all expected numbers of key/value pairs?

Similarly, would something like:

struct DictStruct
   {
      char Key[25];
      ValType Value;
      DictStruct *PrevDictEntry;
      DictStruct *NextDictEntry;
   }

(again, ValType would probably be a union to cover each type of value 
that might be wanted in the dictionary - but in this case, Key directly 
contains the Key's name) then building a double-linked list of struct 
DictStructs end up behaving at least reasonably like a Python "dict"? 

I expect that either will be a reasonable facsimile of how Python 
handles dicts, with, of course, the corresponding overhead (which may be 
surprisingly little, I'm thinking... but I have yet to code that part, 
so I may find out it's going to be a nightmare) of "We want the value 
that goes with key, so we've got to walk the KeyArray[] until we find a 
match, then extract the value from the other array", or a similar 
procedure for the doubly-linked list.

Or am I way out in left field with the way I'm RTFM?

 

(Note 1)
Along with quite a bit of entirely unwelcome "Python evangelism" -- 
Which part of "I don't care how good, bad, or indifferent Python is 
compared to C/C++, or any other language. I want this Python code to be 
written in C/C++, end of discussion." wasn't clear enough for those of 
you who took it upon yourselves to preach (including the idiot who 
decided to spew a relatively impressive (as such things go) string of 
insults about how stupid I am, how far up my ass my head is, and how 
pathetic my family all the way back to Adam must be for producing such a 
throwback because I've got no interest in adopting "the perfect 
language...") at me on the merits of Python, both on group and 
in-mailbox?

-- 
Don Bruder -  dakidd at sonic.net <--- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See <http://www.spamassassin.org> for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html>



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  1 12:08:24 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:08:24 +0200
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <E19tqmJ-0005Rv-00@ns.purdue.org>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>	<Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162>	<vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com>	<3f533f3d$0$32467$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>	<vl6ichsnqa7dfa@corp.supernews.com>	<3f5357a0$0$32519$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<E19tqmJ-0005Rv-00@ns.purdue.org>
Message-ID: <3F536EF8.7040808@ghaering.de>

Cc-ing python-list because it might be of general interest.

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <mailman.1062427383.11085.python-list at python.org> you write:
>>[1] If nothing else, I could then add "does anybody actually directly 
>>use this cra^wmodule?" to the page for ftplib <0.1 wink>
>>
> 
> What *is* going on there?  Do you use Twisted instead?

I needed a quick way to "stat" files via FTP (it's a mirror script that 
synchronizes the maps, etc. on Unreal Tournament 2003 gameservers). As 
ftplib lacks any methods whatsoever to parse the output of the LIST 
command, I searched for something higher level and found ftputil [1], 
which is quite nice to use.

Unfortunately, the stat command of ftputil was very inefficient (it 
basically does a LIST for every stat() you call), so I extended it with 
a statall() method for my mirror script.

Being annoyed with Python's ftplib I wasn't surprised that the ftpcp 
function in the module didn't work for me, while calling the Linux ftp 
client (well, whatever /usr/bin/ftp was at that machine ;-) worked fine 
when using the appropriate PROXY commands.

My current solution creates a script that is then fed into the ftp 
client program. Yes, I need an appropriate ~/.netrc file :-/ It's quite 
a hack, but I needed a solution fast ;-)

The good part was [2] that I learnt that FTP actually has one useful 
feature: server-to-server copy, which has the additional benefit of not 
creating any significant traffic on the controlling client.

-- Gerhard

[1] http://www.ndh.net/home/sschwarzer/python/python_software.html
[2] thanks to deltab on #python




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Sep 26 16:05:18 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:05:18 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <+vJd/ks/KDtU089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080 at nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
>I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For
>example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered
>incomplete?

   I've taken to exploiting brackets, that is, [], () and
{}.  Python won't let a line break break a bracketed
expression.

   Lately I'm not above throwing in extra pairs of
parentheses where I feel that escaped line breaks would
annoy me.

        Regards.        Mel.



From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Sep 22 01:45:35 2003
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:45:35 -0700
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2003-09-01 through 2003-09-15
Message-ID: <3F6E8C7F.3080106@ocf.berkeley.edu>

python-dev Summary for 2003-09-01 through 2003-09-15
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from 
September 1, 2003 through September 15, 2003.  It is intended to inform 
the wider Python community of on-going developments on the list.  To 
comment on anything mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_ (or 
email python-list at python.org which is a gateway to the newsgroup) with a 
subject line mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev members 
are interested in seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't 
hesitate to take a stance on something.  And if all of this really 
interests you then get involved and join `python-dev`_!

This is the twenty-fifth summary written by Brett Cannon (with school 
looming on the horizon).

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which 
can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar 
punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably 
regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, 
although I suggest learning reST; it's simple and is accepted for `PEP 
markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML output.  Also, because of the 
wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I cannot guarantee you 
will be able to run the text version of this summary through Docutils_ 
as-is unless it is from the original text file.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found 
at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking 
up any documentation on something mentioned here.  PEPs (Python 
Enhancement Proposals) are located at http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To 
view files in the Python CVS online, go to 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ .  Reported bugs 
and suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ project page.

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
.. _python-dev mailing list: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html

.. contents::

.. _last summary: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-08-16_2003-08-31.html


=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
Summary is nice and short this time.  More people went on vacation 
(although Martin came back and so that helped to pick up the traffic a 
little).  I skipped covering some threads that are due for PEPs since 
those will be more in-depth then anything I write.

I should give fair warning that starting on the 22nd of September I will 
begin school.  I am hoping that it will not be difficult and I will have 
a carefree time in school.  But if my workload becomes a burden the 
Summaries might suffer.  I hope they don't, though, and I am going to do 
my best to make sure that doesn't happen.


=========
Summaries
=========
---------------------------------------
If It Isn't Documented, Is It a Secret?
---------------------------------------
Some undocumented methods in readline were discovered by Philip Eby.  He 
asked if this was on purpose and whether he should submit a bug report 
on the lack of documentation.  Guido told him to go ahead and submit the 
bug report.

If you ever find something undocumented in the Python source code and 
there is nothing suggesting the code is meant to be hidden from the user 
(it's for internal use, a comment says it is experimental, etc.), then 
please file a bug report!

Contributing threads:
   - `Undocumented functions in 'readline' module 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/037922.html>`__


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You are more trouble than you are worth!", screamed the micro release 
to the new feature
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The topic of what should be backported for micro releases (with Python 
2.3.1 looming on the horizon) came up.  Originally minor improvements 
were allowed in if they didn't break backwards compatibility.  And of 
course bugfixes have been as well as long as they didn't break code that 
came to depend on the buggy behavior (really depends on how long the 
bugginess has been there and how well-known it is).

But then the point of OS X 10.3 possibly becoming the largest install 
base of Python of any version (it will be 2.3) came up.  With rough 
estimates being thrown around of 5 million installs in about a year's 
time, the point that making it difficult to run Python 2.3.x code on 
that size of an install base would be bad.  For instance, if some small 
new feature was added to 2.3.1 then any code using that feature would 
not be able to run on a virgin install of OS X 10.3 (and considering 
that this is Mac it should not be expected that most users will want to, 
let alone know how, to add a secondary install of Python since the 
original is used by the OS and thus should not be overwritten).  It 
looks like a more conservative patching scheme will be taken with micro 
releases.

Bytecode will also continue to work between releases.  Guido has always 
unofficially held that position but now it has been vocalized.

Contributing threads:
   - `Documenting branch policy 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/037955.html>`__


----------------------------------------------
PyPy "Berlin" sprint (29th Sep - 4th Oct 2003)
----------------------------------------------
Just what the title says: there is going to be a sprint_ for PyPy_ in 
Berlin from September 29 to October 4.  Read the email for more specific 
details on goals and such.

.. _sprint: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/SprintPlan
.. _PyPy: http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?home

Contributing threads:
   - `PyPy "Berlin" sprint (29th Sep - 4th Oct 2003) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/037961.html>`__


--------------------------------
Away with you ambiguous imports!
--------------------------------
A discussion on how to create a hierarchy of loggers in the standard 
library led to the idea of having a way to cause an import to come 
directly from the standard library and thus remove any ambiguity from a 
relative import grabbing a similarly named module from the local package.

Barry Warsaw said he was thinking of writing a PEP on this idea.

Contributing threads:
   - `Consistent logging in the standard library 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/038000.html>`__


---------------------------------------------------
Quick: want to give a Python talk at Linuxworld NY?
---------------------------------------------------
If you are interested in what the title asks, then read the email for 
some details.

Contributing threads:
   - `Quick: want to give a Python talk at Linuxworld NY? 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/037993.html>`__


-------------------------------------------
Be careful about saying something is "easy"
-------------------------------------------
A word of advice about saying something is "easy" on python-dev: if you 
say that you should make sure you can back up that claim because 
otherwise you will be told to write the "easy" patch and that will be 
the end of the discussion.

Contributing threads:
   - `Making python C-API thread safe (try 2) 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/038007.html>`__


--------------------------
Parsing dates for datetime
--------------------------
There was some talk about coming up with some code to parse dates for 
the datetime module.  It was kind of hand-wavy since there are multiples 
chunks of code that can do that in the standard library.

If you have an opinion on this (or anything for that matter), make sure 
to make a post to `comp.lang.python`_ about it.

Contributing threads:
   - `datetime issues 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/038042.html>`__





From max at nospam.com  Fri Sep 26 13:56:47 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:56:47 GMT
Subject: PIL: Group4 Tiff Images
In-Reply-To: <mqm8nvsetc3vtddlt05p24jn6bevbnuvuh@4ax.com>
References: <mqm8nvsetc3vtddlt05p24jn6bevbnuvuh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <z5%cb.28323$nU6.4440971@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Doug Tolton wrote:
> I have been able to load a group4 tif into the wxImage class, but I
> get tag errors when attempting to do so.
> 
> Is there a better way of working with Group4 Tiffs?  I have a huge
> volume of Tiffs and decompressing them isn't a good option for me.
> 
> Any ideas on the best way to tackle this problem?

many :)
I don't know where PIL stands on TIFF, but almost all C-based libraries 
rely on libtiff package in the end. Depending on how it is compiled you 
will get different results for TIFFs with nonstandard tags (which is 
probably your case). If you are willing to tinker you can recompile wx's 
version of libtiff. Also, how about reporting to the PIL people? G4 is 
the most popular tiff codec, they would want to know if it's broken. 
What are you doing with all those tiffs anyway?
BTW, you did a nice job obfuscating your email, but it is plaintext in 
the header - you have to reconfigure you mailer to hide it...




From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Sep 23 10:41:39 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:41:39 GMT
Subject: Indexing list of lists
In-Reply-To: <95b4b9ac.0309230541.32800875@posting.google.com>
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <bkblav$u63$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309180950.30b44d89@posting.google.com> <jMmab.507800$uu5.85683@sccrnsc04> <95b4b9ac.0309230541.32800875@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yYYbb.554241$Ho3.96135@sccrnsc03>

Hilde Roth wrote:

>>Only if all the sublists are of the same length, which is guaranteed for 
>>a multi-dimensional array, but not for a list of lists.
> 
> 
> This is a red herring.

No, it's not.  It is a hint that, despite the similarity of notation 
between Matrix[i][j] and NestedList[i][j], there is something 
fundamentally different between the two.  See below for another example.

>  
> 
>>What do you expect a[;1] to return if a = [[], [1, 2, 3], [4], 5]?
> 
> 
> Whatever error python returns if you ask, e.g., for (1 2 3)[4].
> 
> Hilde

Okay, here's a better example which I thought of just after I posted my 
previous reply:

Given

   x = [[1, 2], [3, 4]]

the statement

   x[0] = [5, 6]

will result in a nested list x = [ [5, 6], [3, 4] ].  If you think of x 
as a multi-dimensional array represented by a nested list, then I've 
just replaced a row of the original array

1 2
3 4

with a new row, yielding

5 6
3 4

If we had an x[;0] notation, then you would expect to be able to do the 
same thing to replace a column:

   x[;0] = [7, 8]

Unfortunately, there is no pre-existing list representing the first 
column of x, so x[;0] has to return a new list [1, 3], and assigning to 
that new list has no affect on x.

Again, my point is that nested lists are a fundamentally different 
structure than multi-dimensional arrays.  For simple things like 
x[i][j], you can use a nested list to represent a multi-dimensional 
array, but if you actually want to manipulate a two-dimensional array 
like a matrix, you are better off using a class designed for that 
purpose, like the ones defined in Numeric Python.

David




From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 08:41:38 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:41:38 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <20030907123549.GA1011@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <002201c3753d$6797c3c0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

>A suggestion for use with any Python webpage redesign would be to
>consider using an automated webpage checker such as the one at
>
>    http://validator.w3.org/
>
>That validator does checks on webpages and reports on the pages
>"conformance to W3C Recommendations and other standards."
>
>-Jim Rutledge

IT'S AN IMAGE!!!!! (aargh!!!)  ;-)






From garry at sage.att.com  Wed Sep 17 16:47:06 2003
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:47:06 GMT
Subject: smtplib question
Message-ID: <2003091716471063831625@k2.sage.att.com>

how do i use smtplib to send mail to someone with "cc" to someone else?
if i just include the "to" addressees in the call to smtplib.sendmail(), and
put the others in the "Cc" header fields, only the "To" recipients get the mail,
thought the mail headers look right.

but if i also add the "Cc" folks to the list of recipients in the call to smtplib.sendmail(),
it arrives at their mailer with their address listed on both the "To" and "Cc" 
header fields.

what i want is for everyone on the "To" or "Cc" list to get the mail, and for
the mail headers to reflect this.

please respond off-list.  i had to give up following comp.lang.python for lack
of time.

thanks

----
Garry Hodgson, Technology Consultant, AT&T Labs

Be happy for this moment.
This moment is your life.




From amk at amk.ca  Sat Sep 20 20:54:43 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:54:43 -0500
Subject: spam killing with poplib
References: <pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409@webone.com.au> <S02bb.43098$NM1.7449@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <BPpREWA$ULb$Ewt$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <bkihd9$1mjm8$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5sadncwNpZ1Oa_GiRTvUqQ@speakeasy.net>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:39:49 -0700, 
	Dave Kuhlman <dkuhlman at rexx.com> wrote:
> Almost all the spam I'm receiving has an attachment whose file
> type is one of .exe, .bat, .com, .scr, .pif, and a few others.  Is
> there a way for your Python script to check for that?  How do you
> do that in Python.

If you're using Exim as a mail server, you can compile Exim with Python as
an extension language (elspy.sf.net).  Rejecting all messages with
executable attachments is then a matter of creating an exim_local_scan.py
file containing:

from elspy import execontent_simple
def local_scan (fd, headers, info):
    # Trash executables
    execontent_simple.local_scan(fd, headers, info)
	
    # For now, do no other scanning
    return
		
--amk



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 18:36:11 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:36:11 +0100
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
References: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1lp6nv8b9vnlu453dgaegqujqegmp9chc6@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:55:34 GMT, Don Bruder <dakidd at sonic.net> wrote:

>Dictionaries/"dict" types...
>
>Am I understanding/interpreting correctly when I go with the idea that a 
>"dict" variable can be looked at as (effectively) two parallel arrays? 
>Something like this C construct:
>
>struct DictStruct
>   {
>      char    *KeyArray[<somenumber>];
>      ValType ValArray[<somenumber>];
>   }

Sort of, in a sense, but not quite. The types of items within the
dictionary (both key and value) are not constrained. This is no
problem as all Python objects are held using a reference scheme. So
(assuming that a pair-object scheme is used in the dictionary) the
struct will be defined much like...

  struct DictPair
  {
    PyObject *Key;
    PyObject *Data;
  }

The items will almost certainly be held in a single 'array' of pair
objects.

The Python dictionaries use hashing. I don't know the details of the
hashing used. Anyway, there are many ways to handle dictionary-like
data structures.

C++ has the std::map template, which uses a form of binary tree called
a red-black tree (the red-black refers to a partial balancing system).

Tree-based mappings can be slightly more flexible than hashing (for
instance, a tree can be 'walked' in sorted order - the hashing process
does not preserve relative ordering) but hashing tends to be faster.

An interesting approach to dictionary-like objects is the ternary
tree. This is rather like cascading binary trees - each subtree
identifies one character and cascades into the subtree that finds the
next character. The third link in the 'ternary' is the 'I've
identified one character and moving on to the next' link.

A ternary tree can be faster than hashing - in particular at deciding
that a particular key is not present (hashing needs to calculate a
hash over the whole tree before looking up the result - a ternary tree
search may fail at the first character, without looking at the whole
key).

Digital trees (or tries, IIRC) can be even faster still - but wastes a
lot of memory. In a digital tree, each node has an array subscripted
by character/digit code of pointers to the next subtree.

Multiway trees (most often used on disk for database indexes - B trees
and B+ trees being types of multiway trees) may well be appropriate in
main store on modern desktop machines with caching and virtual memory.

If these options are just too complicated, sorted arrays can be
extremely effective as long as you don't have too many items. The C++
library includes std::vector (a resizable array) and binary search
algorithms which can ease the implementation.


Odds are, if you are translating Python to C++, you should use an
std::map to replace a dictionary. There are some different
assumptions, though. Dictionaries assume that the key is hashable, but
don't require relative comparisons ('<', '<=' etc). The std::map
requires relative comparisons.

This simply arises out of the different approaches - Python using
hashing and C++ using binary trees. Going from Python to C++, 99 times
out of 100 this is not a problem. From C++ to Python there is the
minor issue that Python dictionaries can't be _directly_ iterated in
sorted order, though there are certainly easy ways around that.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep 10 11:22:39 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:22:39 -0600
Subject: advice choosing IDE
In-Reply-To: <bjm7m7$21f5$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za>
References: <bhqe4p$23loq$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
 <c718a6cf.0309072041.10706579@posting.google.com>
 <bjm7m7$21f5$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030910092042.03b57778@66.28.54.253>

At 10:01 PM 9/9/2003, Page wrote:
>I find Wing IDE to work wonders.
>Has all the essentials you'll need. And works on linux & win32 ;)
>http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide

In response to an older post I downloaded wingide. I found it very 
difficult to get started. There seems to be a lot of independent windows 
that open, and its very hard to determine what do to where and when. Is 
there some GOOD tutorial?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From claird at lairds.com  Fri Sep  5 12:46:29 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:46:29 -0000
Subject: Automated code generation
References: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <vlhff5srvf1l28@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk>,
Max M  <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
>Yesterday there was an article on Slashdot:
>http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/04/1415210&mode=flat&tid=108&tid=126&tid=156
>
>It is about automatic code generation.
			.
			.
			.
>Or os it useless in a language as dynamic as Python?
>
>
>regards max M
>

Yes, it's largely useless in a language as dynamic as Python.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 13:15:47 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 18:15:47 +0100
Subject: GET and POST
References: <xc%7b.1420$95.169@newsr2.u-net.net> <mailman.1063289827.17272.python-list@python.org> <l908b.1425$95.197@newsr2.u-net.net> <slrnbm16ot.l65.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <877k4fgsak.fsf@pobox.com>

Brian Victor <bhv1 at psu.edu> writes:

> franck wrote:
> > i know how to do a GET.
> >:) i have this example.
> > my contact tell my i must do a get AND a post :/
> >
> > GET to fuse param et POST for the others.
> 
> Without knowing urllib, I would infer from the rest of the code that
> you'd want to do something like this:
> 
> getparams['fuseaction'] = '*****'
> postparams['num_card']  = '*****'
> 
> getparams = urllib.urlencode(getparams)
> postparams = urllib.urlencode(postparams)  # may not be necessary
> f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com?%s" % getparams, postparams)

It seems unlikely that that's what is required (but you never
know...).

If the OP can post the HTML or a link, it would be rather easier to
say what the problem is!


John



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  2 18:08:47 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:08:47 -0700
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
References: <3285.208.224.10.29.1062445601.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net> <mailman.1062448983.22163.python-list@python.org> <bj0tgc$e4kup$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <bj1khn$iu9$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <bj2cdf$csq7a$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <bj2oa3$1brk$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <bj345g$er3p4$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

Daniel ...

    Applying the  whatEver.master.title()  method
    works out OK ...

    A slight modification of the last example script you posted ...

import sys
module_this = sys.argv[ 0 ]

from Tkinter import *
tk_Root = Tk()

button = Button( tk_Root , text = "Press me !" )
button.pack()

button.master.title( module_this )

tk_Root.mainloop()

# ----------------------------------------------

And a slight modification of Jp's script
also works OK to add the desired title ...

if __name__  ==  '__main__' :

    import sys
    module_this = sys.argv[ 0 ]

    gw = GuessWidget( random.randrange( 100 ) )

    gw.master.title( module_this )

    gw.mainloop()

# ----------------------------------------------

Thanks again for the information
and steering me toward the master  ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Fri Sep 26 11:18:27 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:18:27 +0200
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <bl1lc3$dn7$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

David Abrahams wrote:
> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
> disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where are they?

Don't bother with site navigation, google "pep site:python.org".

Daniel






From chasm at rift.sytes.net  Sun Sep 21 11:22:20 2003
From: chasm at rift.sytes.net (Julian Tibble)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:22:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com> <slrnbmrgau.438.chasm@galileo.rift>
Message-ID: <slrnbmrghc.44b.chasm@galileo.rift>

In article <slrnbmrgau.438.chasm at galileo.rift>, Julian Tibble wrote:
> recursion - 4.7
> xrecursion - 0.5
> reduction - 5.2
> xreduction - 5.2

Whoops!!!! Make that iteration, not recursion.

I do know the difference...honestly :)

Julian



From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 16 17:08:53 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:08:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: When passing functions as args,
      how to pass extra args for passed function?
Message-ID: <65365.199.169.240.132.1063746533.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

When I pass a function as an arg, like for map(...), how do I pass args to
use for that function?

If I have a function like this:

def pretty_format(f, fmt='%0.3f'):
    return fmt % f

I want to use it with map() like this:

formatted = map(pretty_format, unformatted_list)
#exept I want fmt='%4.5f' !!!

I need to figure out how to pass a non-default value for fmt.  How do I do
that?






From john at rygannon.com  Thu Sep 18 18:03:41 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:03:41 GMT
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <Xns93FAC750B300Ek23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>
Message-ID: <3f6a2bd3$0$10998$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi
You may or may know that BA is based on the Qt GUI Application Toolkit, so
you problem with the duel monitor set up is something I shall take up with
Trolltech. Unfortunately, none of use at theKompany run a duel monitor setup
so it is something that we are not aware of. Thank you for bring up this
problem and I will get back to you with a solution or our proposal for a
solution

-- 
Best Regards
John



From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 04:51:19 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:51:19 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <mailman.1062788891.30224.python-list@python.org> <bjaqpk$mnh$02$1@news.t-online.com> <87k78mlrp3.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bjc778$glm$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:87k78mlrp3.fsf at pobox.com...
> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:
>
> > "Juha Autero" <Juha.Autero at iki.fi>
> > >
> > > G?del, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid. It may not be the best
> > > book I read and not very useful, but I'd recomend reading it anyway.
> > >
> >
> > I made the same recommendation some minutes ago, but without your
> > reservation. In fact I might even come to the conclusion it *is* the
best
> > book I have read ;-)
> >
> > Why do you think it is not very useful? What do you think of Shakespeare
by
> > the way?
>
> [not directed at me, but I'll answer anyway...]
>
> Well, it dazzles you with all sorts of fascinating stuff, and succeeds
> at being something wonderful purely in its own right, but it fails to
> actually solve any problems.  Of course, nobody can really tell him
> off for that, since his subject matter revolves around what appears to
> be the biggest unsolved mystery in human knowledge.
>
Absolutly true. But I have the feeling that whenever anyone will explain the
reason ofor everything to us in 1000 years it will be absolutly useless as
well.

In fact I had the vision of some multimedia event, laying in a hospital bed,
connected to artificial nutrition, wearing  headphones, listening to Bach's
music and reading Hofstadter. Excuse me for being such hillarious.

Kindly
Michael P





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Tue Sep 30 06:57:08 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 03:57:08 -0700
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <mailman.1064844761.11275.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309300257.63284ced@posting.google.com>

Hello Rob,
> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
> 
> One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x == 
> type(2387482734274)) and ...
> 
> but this seems kludgy.  Any better way?
Same thing, different way:
from types import IntType, LongType, FloatType
def is_num(n):
    return n in (IntType, LongType, FloatType)

HTH.
Miki



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 11:42:45 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:42:45 GMT
Subject: questions about a C++ COM object accessed in Python via win32com
References: <e46a6e85.0309220727.c867ab4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <VLEbb.101623$hE5.3572715@news1.tin.it>

T.T.H. wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I am coding a C++ COM object which I want to access in Python. For that
> I do have some detail questions and need help since I am not that familiar
> with the documentation itself of Python and win32com yet.
> 
> 
> 1.
> How do I know that...
> 
> import win32com.client
> 
> ...was successful or not?

If it fails, it raises an exception -- so, if you want to handle the
failure, you try this statement in the try clause of a try/except
statement.  That is reasonably similar to C++'s exception (syntax
apart), so the concept shouldn't be too alien.


> 2.
> In my COM object I do have the following C++ function:
> 
> STDMETHODIMP CMyTestObjekt::Connect()
> {
>   if (m_boolReadyToConnect == false) {
>     return E_FAIL;
>   }
>   return S_OK;
> }
> 
> How do I know in Python whether I got back a S_OK or an E_FAIL? Or is this

E_FAIL translates into an exception.

> whole concept wrong and I should better make an additional return value
> like:
> 
> MyFunktion(......., [out, retval] BOOL *pVal);  (declaration in the IDL)

This would be much more COM-idiomatic, unless the failure IS an exceptional
event, something that SHOULD not happen in a well-functioning system and
probably the result of mis-configuration or hardware malfunctioning.

> 
> 3.
> If I execute the following command...
> 
> MyObject = win32com.client.Dispatch("MyCOM.MySuperCOMObject")
> 
> ...what is the return value from which I know whether it was successful?

Guess...?-)  Yep: if it's not successful it raises an exception!

> Or what can be the ""content"" of "MyObject" afterwards?

If an exception wasn't raised, MyObject is an instance of some class
(you need not care about which one...) on which you can call methods
(which will be "proxied" to the actual C++-implemented COM object).

> 
> 4.
> If I have a function in Python in which I call the (global) COM Object,
> what "if" do I have to use to know whether the COM object already had
> been allocated? I tried the following but that didn't work:
> 
> def foo():
>   if MyObject == None:
>     print "COM not there yet"
>   else:
>     print MyObject.Message

If name "MyObject" has never been bound, trying to access it will...
I give you three guesses... *raise an exception*!

However, I _would_ suggest that in this case you set MyObject=None
at a global level and test as above (except, use "Myobject is None"
rather than ==) -- that is more idiomatic in Python.


Alex




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 14:47:10 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:47:10 +0100
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com> <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu> <mailman.1064330017.10730.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u941nvg94ae04ajndvbjs2hlqc9l5lemqh@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:10:49 -0400, Shu-Hsien Sheu <sheu at bu.edu>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>In my understanding, using try/except rather than if/else is more 
>pythonic. 

Rule of thumb: when the block of code is still doing what it's
supposed to do, use if/else. If it's failing to do what it's supposed
to do, use try/except. "except" should be an /exception/!

>However, sometimes it is difficult to use the later.
>For example, I want to search for a sub string in a list composed of 
>strings. It is considered "possitive" if there is a match, no matter how 
>many.
>
>my_test = ['something', 'others', 'still others']
>
>case 1: try/except
>
>hit = 0
>for i in my_test:
>    try:
>       i.index('some')
>       hit = 1
>    except ValueError:
>       pass

I'd reckon that to be a bad use of try/except; the "exception" is a
perfectly normal case.

>case 2: if/else
>
>hit = 0
>for i in my_test:
>    if 'some' in i:
>       hit = 1

My /guess/ is that this would be faster than case 1, as well as
clearer!

>It seems to me that in a simple searching/matching, using if might be 
>better and the code is smaller. Try/except would have its strengh on 
>catching multiple errorrs. However, problems occur if the criteria is 
>composed of "or" rather than "and". For instance:
>
>if (a in b) or (c in b):
>    *do something
>
>try:
>    b.index(a)
>    b.index(c)
>    *do something
>except ValueError:
>   pass
>
>The above two are very  different.

Yes.  The first is clear and concise, the second is verbose and
unclear!  Also the second could mask a genuine ValueError if a, b, or
c is an evaluation rather than a simple variable, so you'd think that
neither a nor c was in b when in fact you have no idea: something went
invisibly wrong and you never actually completed the search.

So try/except /only/ when something has gone wrong and you need to go
into some sort of recovery or termination, /not/ for routine tests.



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Sep 12 00:45:48 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:45:48 -0700
Subject: Overlaying transparent images with PIL
In-Reply-To: <7d3dc526.0309111903.2a4a044@posting.google.com>
References: <7d3dc526.0309111903.2a4a044@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030912044548.GB10167@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting Fearless Freep (joconnor at cybermesa.com):
> 
> Anyway.  I have a basic image and I need to overlay an image on top of
> it and let some of the basic image show through.  Just as an aside the
> images are not of the same size and the top image needs to be pasted
> over the underlying image at an offset from the origin.

What you want is to convert both your images (or at least the top
one?) to an RGBA image. The RGB are the color codes, and the "A" is
the alpha layer. The alpha layer specifies how opaque each pixel
should be, 0 being transparent and 255 being opaque.

If you convert the GIF you're using into an RGBA image, this should
work. The problem with GIF is that it's not really 'transparent', the
pixels are actually colored. There's just a special marker in the GIF
file format that allows you to identify one of the colors as
"transparent".

I believe the PNG file format actually provides a full four-layer
model with variable transparency, but I'm a long way from expert or
even knowledgable in these affairs. I just know what's worked for me
before....

Best of luck!

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>      http://www.gerrietts.net/
   "If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?" --Abraham Lincoln




From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 16:51:10 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:51:10 +0200
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
Message-ID: <bjat11$70s$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Grzegorz Staniak" <gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl>

> I'm a newbie Python user, a systems administrator - I've been trying
> to switch from Perl to Python for administrative tasks - and one thing
> I cannot understand so far is why I need the special 'self' (or anything
> esle) argument in class method definitions.

You probably do not mean "class methods"; this a technical term in OOP.

The Python class basics are *very* similar to the implementation of Perl
classes!!
You should not have much problems....

Kindly
Michael P





From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 30 13:28:20 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:28:20 GMT
Subject: query
References: <2003929-93022-80040@foorum.com> <OSednc312rPT2-WiXTWJkw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <U2jeb.198419$R32.6381093@news2.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> "drn" <bmproj2003 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2003929-93022-80040 at foorum.com...
>>  as we are going to develop a educational s/w for children at
> preprimary level
> 
> My daughter started with simple games at about age 3, so I know this
> can be productive.

Ditto (and now she's just started university -- telecom engineering:-).


>> -----shall we go for individual terminals with Linux 7.3, and with a
> minimum of > around 600 MB of free space,Minimum requirement for RAM
> 32 MB. >Minimum requirement for Hard Disk 2.1GB,
> 
> The cheapest machines you can buy in US (about $600) have much more
> than this.  With duplicate machines, any program you develop on one
> will run on all.

Wrong!  You may be thinking of *general-purpose* "machines", but it
seems to me drn may not need general-purpose machines.  See:
http://info.lindows.com/webstation/ -- $169 base price, runs Linux
(lindows version) from CDROM ("unbreakable", "virus-proof":-), 800 MHz
processor, 256 MB RAM, no hard disk, no floppy, but with good audio
and video, and 10/100 Ethernet.

Basically you point its browser to wherever (presumably on the local
LAN) the specialized server (which I would suggest writing in Python
with Twisted, or perhaps with apache+webware) lives, and off you go.
(If you want speakers, they're $5 extra; so is each of keyboard and mouse,
and a screen [monitor] is also extra -- $120 for 15", $143 for 17").

I'm not quite sure what the OP means by "Linux 7.3" (there is no
such animal -- the next coming release of Linux will be 2.6; he may
be thinking of some specific DISTRIBUTION of Linux, such as Mandrake,
RedHat, SUSE -- I think 7.3 is very old for each of those, of course
by different degrees since each keeps their own numbering;-), but I
suspect Lindows OS 4.0 will be fine for him.

If you do want a hard-disk in addition, admittedly the cheapest that
you can add is 40GB, making the total (with speakers, keyboard, mouse
AND 40 GB HD) $262.  Still a fair bit less than $600 -- but I suspect
(no direct experience with these webstations yet) that you could more
cheaply get the diskspace from the central server via NFS anyway (as
to how to configure and startup the machines to get their NFS shares,
when the boot is always from CDROM, that's the part I don't know -- I
suspect you may be able to save such config info on a floppy, the
drive being $12 and taking the machine cost to $196 sans monitor --
$316 with a 15" monitor, $339 with a 17" monitor instead).  Given that
the machines are advertised to come with the OpenOffice suite, I
guess/assume there must be SOME way for you to get disk space (e.g.
on the LAN) to save your work on -- be it NFS, SMB, or whatever.


>>There will be no networking even  among machines at one location.
> 
> I think this would be a mistake.  Network cards cost US$10-20.  An
> 8-port hub or router < $200, I think.  When you write a program, it
> will be *much* easier to install on other machine with a network.  The
> same will be mostly true for files downloaded from Internet.

Yes, it would be a disaster to forego the advantages of networking.
Note that the above-mentioned "webstations" CRUCIALLY rely on the
LAN to be usable -- and, like just about all computers these days,
they come with 10/100 ethernet connectivity built-in anyway.  I have
seen 5-port 10/100 switches sold in stores, *VAT INCLUDED*, for
$50 or less around here (so I'm sure they're cheaper in the US) --
a few meters of cable, and off you go.


>> -----which lanuage do you suggest - c/c++ or any browser based
> software like
>> php/python.
> 
> Python is not browser based.  It is a complete standalone language
> just like C/C++.  It also has many free add-ons available, like
> PyGame, which you might
> find useful for games and other graphics work.

Absolutely.  But Python is PERFECTLY suitable for writing special
purpose webservers -- or serverside applications that run together
with apache -- which might be the best way to arrange the OP's
goals.  It's simply a more powerful AND simpler language than PHP,
much higher-level than C, and MUCH simpler than C++.  The only
alternatives to Python which I think might be worthy of the OP's
attention (if in his environment it should be easier to find
programmers for those alternative languages) would be other languages
of similar power and semantically high level: Ruby, Smalltalk, Common
Lisp, O'CAML, Dylan, Haskell... out of all of these, Ruby and Python
are the only two that can be learned FAST by typical programmers (i.e.,
unless you start with programmers already skilled in some of the
other ones), and Python is overall a bit simpler, roughly of the
same power of Ruby, IMHO more suitable for multiple programmers to
work together (because it emphasizes uniformity, while Ruby has
emphasis on individual unbridled originality), AND offers vaster
choice in terms of existing add-ons, extensions, integration with
webservers and frameworks for writing standalone special servers
(Twisted above all!), development environments, books, etc, etc.

So, it would seem to me that Python should be the obvious choice
unless special circumstances apply (e.g., half a dozen skilled
Common Lisp coders are already around and available -- in such a
fortunate case, by all means go with Common Lisp, for example).


>> please help and send your suggestions as soon as possible.
>> my email id is bmproj2003 at yahoo.com
> 
> Posted and CCed

Ditto.


Alex




From juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 11 15:33:09 2003
From: juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com (Julia Goolia)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 12:33:09 -0700
Subject: tkinter, sockets and threads together
Message-ID: <79ad5955.0309111133.5f6bf26f@posting.google.com>

hello,

i read that it is bad to use threads with tkinter.  so my question is
how does one create a gui program with sockets?  at one point you have
to call mainloop() which does not return.  then you are not free to do
stuff with the sockets.

what's up with that?

thanks so much for your time!
julia



From post400 at prontomail.com  Wed Sep  3 07:32:22 2003
From: post400 at prontomail.com (post400)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 04:32:22 -0700
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
Message-ID: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com>

Hi,

apparently there is a very famous book that every developer should
read: Code complete by Steve McConnell !

Is there an electronic version freely downloadable ? After all, the
book was released in 1993 , it should have been public domain by now !
It would be nice to have a try before ! 50? is not exactly cheap !
What do you think ? Is it worth the money or not ?

Thanks !
post400



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep 12 03:45:52 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:45:52 +0200
Subject: Canvas - Rectangle. Is there an easy way to detect if you're inside?
References: <4378fa6f.0309111159.7a9bb539@posting.google.com> <ekCdneV55u9Ij_yiXTWJhA@comcast.com> <0KScnYKghrLc1fyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bjrtmh$bts$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Marc" <losnations at comcast.net>
.....

> Like I say, I am doing it right now with a bunch of if statements. It
works
> fine. But it's sort of a brute force method. Seems kind of hackish. It
just
> seems like one of those things where there has to be a cleaner way.
>
Have you tried using 'tags'. These are widely underestimated.
There is the special tag 'current' which is bound to the object under the
cursor. The 'object' however is only the drawn area, i.e. you have to 'fill'
it.

Useful methods are gettags, find_withtag; even tag_bind might be useful!
There can be a list of tags to each object of course and they can be
manipulated in multiple ways (

Kindly
Michael P

Try this:

from Tkinter import *

c=Canvas(width=300,height=300)
c.create_rectangle(10,10,280,280,tags='a',fill='yellow')
c.create_rectangle(100,100,200,200,tags='b',fill='green')
c.pack()

def aMove(ev):
    print c.gettags('current')

c. bind("<Motion>",aMove)
c.mainloop()






From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep  3 22:20:56 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:20:56 GMT
Subject: Interoperability between VB and Python under ASP
In-Reply-To: <bb536467.0309031055.2fe6a661@posting.google.com>
References: <bj46f2$kk2$1@voodoo.volia.net> <bb536467.0309031055.2fe6a661@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ckx5b.1735$9P5.77107@twister.austin.rr.com>

bigdog wrote:
> Max Ischenko <max at ucmg.com.ua> wrote in message news:<bj46f2$kk2$1 at voodoo.volia.net>...
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I've started to develop under Microsoft ASP framework, which allows 
>>different lang. used in a ActiveX page. I wonder about possible 
>>strategies to use Python modules from VBScript <%%> includes.
> 
> I don't know if this will help, but it might be worth a shot.
> http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/ I've never used it myself, I only point
> it out as a curiosity I've heard of

Although it isn't (currently) targetted at VBScript, the CVS version of 
vb2py might help if you have reasonably sized blocks of VBScript code to 
convert. It hasn't been tested on VBScipt specifically but the parser 
should work for most things and I'd certainly be interested to hear of 
any specific problems with ASP scripts.

Out of the box it won't even recognize code in a .asp page, but I threw 
together the following code. I'm not an expert on ASP or VBScript but 
even if this is not correct it might point you in the right direction if 
you want to try a convert-to-python route ....

test = """
<html>
<%

function factorial(x)
if x = 0 then
     factorial = 1
else
     factorial = x*factorial(x-1)
end if
end function

%>
</html>
"""

from vb2py.vbparser import parseVB, VBCodeModule
import re

def translateScript(match):
     """Translate VBScript fragment to Python"""
     block = parseVB(match.groups()[0], container=VBCodeModule())
     return "<%%\n%s\n%%>" % block.renderAsCode()

converter = re.compile(r"\<%(.*?)%\>", re.DOTALL + re.MULTILINE)
print converter.sub(translateScript, test)


... which should output:

"""
<html>
<%
from vb2py.vbfunctions import *

def factorial(x):
     if x == 0:
         _ret = 1
     else:
         _ret = x * factorial(x - 1)
     return _ret

%>
</html>
"""

You'll need the CVS version to get this to work - the v0.1.1 doesn't 
have the full parser and the v0.2 release is a couple of weeks off yet.

If you do decide to try this route, I'd be very interested to hear of 
any specific issues that come up with translating ASP/VBScript to Python.


Paul

=========================
Paul Paterson

vb2py :: A Visual Basic to Python Conversion Toolkit
http://vb2py.sourceforge.net




From tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom  Thu Sep 25 18:28:52 2003
From: tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom (Tina Li)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:28:52 -0400
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <3f71ad83_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <Tnmcb.2151$RW4.8@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3f736cad_4@corp.newsgroups.com>

Hi Andrew,

| > Thanks for the XML code. I've written up something
| > similar using xml.parsers.expat, but it's conceivably slower
| > than regexp.
|
| Conceivable, yes.  But 1) did you test it, and 2) would it make a
| difference?

I tested it in terms of correctness. I didn't do any serious performance bench-marking as it's not the most important.
The lag is *perceivable* (this is what I meant; sorry) by a human user so it's slower.

| Here's a question for you.  When is it easier to read the
| documentation for existing code (which has been tested)
| then it is to write and debug your own code?

Is it a test question? =) I think it depends on the nature of the task. If it's intrinsically complex and error-prone,
and that I have little exposure to it, I wouldn't risk re-inventing a wheel that doesn't turn. As well, what would the
opportunity cost be between the time it takes to understand the documentation and that to code and test? Are the docs
long, drab and obscure? Sometimes existing code isn't easy to customize for a particular need, then we'd have to redo
it.

| You can also make the pattern a bit less ambiguous,
| eg, use [^>]* instead of .*? when you are inside an element,
| which turns
|
|    r'<pdbcode>(?P<pdbcode>.*?)</pdbcode>.*?'
|
| into
|
|    r'<pdbcode>(?P<pdbcode>[^<]*)</pdbcode>.*?'
|
| (and use [^"]* instead of .*? for getting the text of an
| attribute.)
|
| You can get rid of the other ambiguity (skipping characters
| until the start of the next tag) by using something like
|
|   ([^<]|<(?!queryGaps))*<queryGaps
|
| instead of
|
|   .*?<queryGaps

I in fact tried that before but the over-limit error still happened. So it's not just the non-greedy .*? that's causing
the problem. Hmm.

But again, thanks for the tips. I'm sure they'll come in handy someday. I'm doing this for a quick "hack" rather than a
generic and robust parser module. It only handles tags without space because all tags are guaranteed to be generated
without space.

Thank!

Tina



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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From mk at net.mail.penguinista  Mon Sep  1 10:45:41 2003
From: mk at net.mail.penguinista (=?UTF-8?B?0LTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCzLg==?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:45:41 +0200
Subject: bsddb read-only requires rw access to close?
References: <70df36e9.0308291220.527fcdfc@posting.google.com> <m3lltapo5s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f535b95@news.mt.net.mk>

>> Is this a bug?
> 
> Yes.

But since the DB is opened read-only, perhaps close() is not so important?!?

-- 
??????                                  (jabberID:damjan at bagra.net.mk)

A: Because it reverses the logical flow of converstion.
Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?



From news at datatailors.xs4all.nl  Sat Sep  6 19:45:57 2003
From: news at datatailors.xs4all.nl (Peter van Kampen)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:45:57 +0200
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <slrnblksdk.2mu.news@datatailors.com>

In article <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey at dmiyu.org>, Steve Lamb wrote:

>     If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
> if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?  For that matter

I very much doubt that, can you provide some numbers to backup this
statement?

> why is it in several other European nations (Netherlands and Switzerland
> IIRC) where there is a legal requirement for all males over a certain
> age to be armed (standing militia) that there is so little gun related
> violence?

The Netherlands has no standing militia, nor does it require all males
to own a gun. Until the early 90s there was a draft --if that's what
it's called-- (Give all young men a chance to learn how to kill and
then bore themselves to death in the other (11,13 or 17) months of
service), but it was abandoned in 1993. The Netherlands now have a
profesional army (i.e. all military personal voluntarily joined the
army/navy/air force) that is mostly used in peace-keeping missions
(with, regretfully, very mixed results). 

>     When are people going to learn, it ain't the guns, its the education
> and attitude surrounding them.  It isn't guns that are the problem, it's
> ignorance of guns thats the problem.

By that rationale it wouldn't matter who owns 'weapons of mass
destruction' as long as they would know how to (not) use them... If
you would agree that Saddam Hussein shouldn't be allowed to own a
'gun', could you still argue that every Tony, Dick and George should?

Only-mentioning-Godwin's-Law-ly yours,

PterK

-- 
Peter van Kampen
pterk -- at -- datatailors.com



From tl_nntp at webcrumb.com  Thu Sep  4 02:47:13 2003
From: tl_nntp at webcrumb.com (Tom Lee)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 06:47:13 GMT
Subject: Thank you!!!
In-Reply-To: <bj5ki4$fmgdl$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bj5ki4$fmgdl$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f56dff0$1@news.comindico.com.au>

MK wrote:
> Thank you, Pythonistas.
> 
> You gave me a medium to express myself.
> 
> What is Fender to Jimi, or color to Monet,
> Python is for me.
> 
> My thoughts are flowing naturally with you,
> Python. What is "Voodoo Chile" to Jimi, that's
> short, elegant and working ZEN-code in
> Python for me.
> 
> Truly a freeing, non-linear and transcendent(*)
> experience,
> yours
> MK
> 
> 
> 
> (*)
> Those excit?ng, legendary days when I implemented
> a paint program in 6502 assembler, and a CAD/CAM program
> in Turbo Pascal.
> 
> And then 10 years of IT toiling... Am I loosing my faith?
> 
> But programming is fun, again!!!
> PYTHON!! PYTHON!! PYTHON!! PYTHON!!
> PYTHON!! PYTHON!! PYTHON!! PYTHON!!
> 
> 
erm ... yep, I like it too.

;)

- TL




From garyr at fidalgo.net  Wed Sep 10 22:03:18 2003
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Gary Richardson)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:03:18 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Canvas/Grid question
Message-ID: <vlvm553ie2is04@corp.supernews.com>

Is there a simple way of causing the size of a canvas to change as the
window is resized when using the Grid geometry manager? Setting
sticky='NESW', as in the following code, doesn't work though the
documentation for Grid seems to imply that it should: "sticky   If a
slave's cell is larger than its requested dimensions, this option may be
used to position (or stretch) the slave within its cell. ... The sticky
option subsumes the combination of anchor and fill that is used by
pack". Or is there something wrong with my code?

Thanks,
Gary Richardson

from Tkinter import *

class Test(Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent):
        Frame.__init__(self, parent)
        frame = Frame(parent)
        self.canvas = Canvas(frame, bg='white' , width=300, height=100)
        self.canvas.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky='NESW')
        frame.grid()

root = Tk()
Test(root)
root.mainloop()








From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep 29 16:27:01 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:27:01 -0500
Subject: shelve keeping old (unused) data around?
In-Reply-To: <nm0eb.44174$ai7.36973@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <nm0eb.44174$ai7.36973@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <16248.38293.601612.845564@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    nospam> I'm using shelve module in python 2.3 and I found that it does a
    nospam> very odd thing, at least very unexpected to me. It seems that
    nospam> the data of a replaced or deleted key stays in filename.dat
    nospam> file.

The bits which actually get written to the disk depend on the underlying
library writing those bits.  The shelve module has no say in the matter.
All it does to create a file is ask anydbm to open it, then pickle the
values so they can be written out as strings.  Again, shelve doesn't do that
directly.  It asks the object created by anydbm to do that.  You didn't say
(perhaps you don't know) what the underlying library is on your system.  It
seems likely that the library deletes the key, but leaves the data dangling
(perhaps also marked free so it can reuse it at a later time).

Skip




From moss2533 at kettering.edu  Sat Sep  6 01:09:25 2003
From: moss2533 at kettering.edu (Mark Moss)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 22:09:25 -0700
Subject: XRC, wxMenuBar's, and wxMenuBarPtr's
Message-ID: <ac4e4ba8.0309052109.15cd0f6d@posting.google.com>

I have an XRC file that contains a complete menubar.  I load this
menubar into a frame with:

   self.ResMenu = wxXmlResource("menus.xrc",0)
   self.MenuBar = self.ResMenu.LoadMenuBar("MenuBarEditor")
   self.SetMenuBar(self.MenuBar)

Then set up a menu event handler:

   EVT_MENU(self, XRCID("MenuItemSnapToGrid"), self.OnSnapToGrid)

Finally, in OnSnapToGrid, I try to get a specific wxMenuItem by using
the wxMenuBar.FindItem:

   m = self.MenuBar.FindItem(XRCID("MenuItemSnapToGrid"))

This falls flat on its face because:

   AttributeError: wxMenuBarPtr instance has no attribute 'FindItem'

It seems that LoadMenuBar returns a wxMenuBarPtr rather than a
wxMenuBar.  My question then is given a wxMenuBarPtr and the ID of the
menu-item (via XRCID), how do I get ahold of the wxMenuItem object? 
Alternativly, is there a way to check/uncheck a wxMenuItem without
having a reference to the actual object (using the id or similar)?

Thanks in advance,

Mark Moss



From max at fr.fm  Thu Sep 18 17:47:34 2003
From: max at fr.fm (Maxime Biais)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:47:34 +0200
Subject: print and trailing white space
References: <20030918232501.4f2ab362.max@fr.fm>
	<3F6A24B5.B26940B3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030918234734.467cfcf1.max@fr.fm>

Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:33:41 -0400
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
 
> What's wrong with write() ?  Print is merely provided for convenience.
> When it's not doing what you want, you are supposed to use write(),
> not come up with weird hacks for print.

ok sorry, I believed write was not buffered. I just read the library
reference part on write() and see I was wrong.

-- 
Maxime Biais



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 11 07:39:21 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:39:21 -0400
Subject: socket error 10061
References: <mailman.1063266556.26836.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F605EE9.36AB9C5B@engcorp.com>

Bill Loren wrote:
> 
> Upon running my program via the command line I get the above error.
> Weirder is the fact that upon running the same code from within
> ActiveState's PythonWin's
> IDE - I get no error and the code smoothly completes its running.

When posting questions of this nature, please include the traceback
if there is one, or cut and paste the exact error right from your
screen, along with the failing code section (for context).

To find what 10061 means, import errno and type

  errno.errorcode[10061]

-Peter



From sminni_news at minisoftindia.com  Mon Sep  1 00:23:25 2003
From: sminni_news at minisoftindia.com (Sanjay Minni)
Date: 31 Aug 2003 21:23:25 -0700
Subject: tix / idestudio on win98 python 2.3 crashes
Message-ID: <836a2f21.0308312023.4d2871a3@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I installed IDEStudio 1.9 on python 2.3 on win98
(all are current downloads)

the sample tix app crashes
pythonw invalid page fault tcl84.dll

But it was working on python 2.2.3

Is it working for anybody ?

Regards
Sanjay Minni
www.planage.com



From lists at andrebocchini.com  Fri Sep 19 19:48:57 2003
From: lists at andrebocchini.com (Andre Bocchini)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:48:57 -0500
Subject: Proxy Authentication using urllib2
Message-ID: <D57C6699-EAFB-11D7-ABD5-003065E2C6D6@andrebocchini.com>

I'm having some trouble using proxy authentication.  I can't figure out 
how to authenticate with a Squid proxy.  I know for a fact the proxy is 
using Basic instead of Digest for the authentication.  I can 
authenticate just fine using Mozilla.  I've done some Google searches, 
but the closest piece of code I've is is for HTTPBasicAuthHandler:

# set up authentication info
authinfo = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler()
authinfo.add_password('realm', 'host', 'username', 'password')
proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" : "http://ahad-haam:3128"})
# build a new opener that adds authentication and caching FTP handlers
opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_support, authinfo, 
urllib2.CacheFTPHandler)
# install it
urllib2.install_opener(opener)
f = urllib2.urlopen('http://www.python.org/')

Can anybody point me in the right direction to some more detailed 
documentation?  I haven't really been able to understand what I found 
in the Python Library Reference either.

I thought something like this might work, but is didn't:

proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" : "http://myproxy:3128"})
proxy_auth_handler = urllib2.ProxyBasicAuthHandler()
proxy_auth_handler.add_password(None, "myproxy", "myname", "mypass")
opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_handler, proxy_auth_handler)
urllib2.install_opener(opener)
f = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.python.org")
data = f.readlines()

I always get a 407 error.

Well, thanks in advance.

-- Andre





From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Sep  2 20:03:52 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:03:52 GMT
Subject: cli arguments
References: <3f5506d5$0$8546$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <slrnblac4b.18hj.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <3f5506d5$0$8546$ba620e4c at reader0.news.skynet.be>, Geiregat Jonas:
> What is the module called that's made to dael with cli argument's like 
> --foo-bar -c -blabla ?
> 

In python2.3, try optparse




From member39949 at dbforums.com  Wed Sep 17 05:58:07 2003
From: member39949 at dbforums.com (netytan)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:58:07 -0400
Subject: Can Python Module Locate Itself?
References: <VYR9b.1109$c17.866@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3379901.1063792687@dbforums.com>

You can use sys.argv[0] to get the path of the program and use that to
read in the program file.. you could then parse the source as usual.



But personally i'd be enclined to go with Juha's idea, it seems more
elegant and requires less work on the part of the program and the
programmer..



Have fun,

Mark.


--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 12:17:08 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:17:08 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <yu99brt7igy8.fsf@tinker.research.att.com> <eppstein-021DF1.11105726092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <8Kidb.130826$hE5.4452165@news1.tin.it>

David Eppstein wrote:
   ...
>> Really?  I would expect a common usage to be:
>> 
>>         for 0 <= index < len(list):
>>              do something with list[index]
> 
> Isn't that what the new enumerate(list) is for?

Not necessarily.  enumerate is for when you need the values of both index
AND somelist[index], which is clearly a pretty common case.  But sometimes
you don't care about the "previous value" of somelist[index].  E.g., say
that your specs are:

if issospecial(index) returns true, then, whatever the previous value
of somelist[index] might have been, it must be replaced with beeble.next().

Then, expressing this as:

    for index in range(len(somelist)):
        if issospecial(index):
            somelist[index] = beeble.next()

looks rather better to me than:

    for index, item in enumerate(somelist):
        if issospecial(index):
            somelist[index] = beeble.next()

where the fact that 'item' is being so deliberately REQUESTED... and
then utterly IGNORED... makes me wonder if the code's author may not
have committed some typo, or something.


Admittedly, these cases where you don't CARE about the previous values
of items ARE rare enough that enumerate use-cases vastly outnumber them.


Alex




From farmenta at pillardata.com  Tue Sep 30 19:49:28 2003
From: farmenta at pillardata.com (Fernando Armenta)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:49:28 -0700
Subject: How do you use " " whe sending a command
Message-ID: <36504F2E352484458C5D574719DC83720138FF44@caex01.trans.corp>

Hello, 

 

I am trying to pass the following command

 

ssh IP_address "ssh IP_address ls"

 

How you do that in Python?

/" ?

"/ ?

 

p = os.popen('ssh.exp ' + MGMT_IP + ' ' + /" ssh + PMI_IP_NODE1 + ' ' +
/bin/tdslog -C "/')

 

 

Thanks for the help...

 

-F

 

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From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 09:33:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:33:50 -0400
Subject: scp in python
References: <bk9ho8$hau$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <3F6862BE.66AA65EC@engcorp.com>

Michael wrote:
> 
> Is there a scp (ssh) written in Python ?

Yes, no... this might help: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python+scp+pexpect

-Peter



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 08:46:41 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:46:41 +0100
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87znh26z7y.fsf@pobox.com>

hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth) writes:

> Thanks for the suggestion but zip is not nice for large lists
> and as for array/numpy, although I chose a numeric example in
> the posting, I don't see why only numeric arrays should enjoy
> the benefit of such a notation.

Numeric (and presumably numarray) can handle arbitrary Python objects.


> l[;0] is illegal right now but does anyone of any other bit
> of syntax it might conflict with if proposed as an extension?

BTW, just remembered that Numeric/numarray *does* use commas for
multi-dimensional indexing.  Apparently (glancing at the language ref)
that's not actually indexing with a tuple, but part of Python's
syntax.  Same goes for that other obscure bit of Python syntax, the
ellipsis, as used by Numeric: foo[a, ..., b].


John



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 15 16:40:54 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:40:54 -0400
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com> <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com> <brtl7s6v.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vmc902p1cvrkbd@news.supernews.com>

"Paul Moore" <paul.moore at atosorigin.com> wrote in message
news:brtl7s6v.fsf at yahoo.co.uk...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
>
> > "Paul Moore" <paul.moore at atosorigin.com> wrote in message
> > news:182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482 at posting.google.com...
>
> >> 1. Get the last day of the month contatining a given date(time). I
> >> really was surprised to find this one missing, as it seems to me that
> >> the datetime module must know what the last day for each month is, so
> >> exposing it wouldn't have been hard.
> >
> > I'm kind of surprised to see that it's missing, too.
>
> The best solution I could find was
>
> def month_end(dt):
>     # Get the next month
>     y, m = dt.year, dt.month
>     if m == 12:
>         y += 1
>         m = 1
>     else:
>         m += 1

This looks incomplete. You could use this to get the sequential date
for the first of the next month, but you still have to subtract one day
and then print out the day.

>
>     # Use replace to cater for both datetime and date types. This
>     # leaves the time component of a datetime unchanged - it's
>     # arguable whether this is the right thing.
>
>     return dt.replace(year=y, month=m, day=1) - datetime.timedelta(days=1)
>
> It's not hard - but it's mildly tricky (I made a few false starts and
> some silly off-by-one errors) and I'd much rather grab it from a
> library than make the same mistakes next time I need it.

As I said, I don't see any obvious reason why they wouldn't accept
a patch, if you want to submit it.

> >> 2. Add a number of months to a date. This is messy, as there are
> >> options (what is one month after 31st Jan). The trouble is that the
> >> calculation, while simple, is tricky to get right (month is 1-based,
> >> so off-by-1 errors are easy to make, and divmod isn't as useful as
> >> you'd first think).
> >
> > That's application dependent.
>
> True. But for "naive" use, a simple definition does. This is in line
> with the datetime module's philosophy of not trying to cater for
> "advanced" uses, but to provide something useful for straightforward
> use. In this particular case, I'd argue that the obvious definition
> (same day number N months on) where applicable, plus a well-documented
> "reasonable" answer for the edge cases (eg, Jan 31 plus 1 month) is
> useful. In practice, I suspect that 99% of cases involve adding a
> number of months to either the first or the last of a month.

Except for the edge case I mention below, this is really too simple;
it's just add one to the month and keep the same date. Hardly worth
a method at all, especially if you have the "last day of month" method.

> > If a bond, for example, has interest payable on the 30th of the
> > month, you probably want the 30th, except in February you want the
> > last day of the month. However, the contract may specify something
> > else. And in no case do you want the date to suddenly change to the
> > 28th because you went through February.
>
> But that's not so much a case of adding a month, as a more complex
> concept, a "repeating date". Nevertheless, I take your point.

Yes. When you've got something application dependent, they tend
not to put in "naive" definitions. What's a 'naive' definition for one
person
is simply wrong for another.

John Roth


> Thanks for the comments,
> Paul.
> -- 





From shlomme at gmx.net  Wed Sep 17 08:03:28 2003
From: shlomme at gmx.net (Torsten Marek)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:03:28 +0200
Subject: audio module
In-Reply-To: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bk9iig$qh9un$1@ID-195815.news.uni-berlin.de>

Todd Stephens schrieb:
> Is there such a module containing audio tools?  I am looking specifically
> for tools to manipulate ogg-vorbis and convert other formats (mp3, wav) to
> ogg.
> 
What do you mean by "manipulation"? Edit the tag info? You can have a 
try with (my) libtagedit (libtagedit.sourceforge.net), which supports 
mp3 as well.

Converting mp3 into ogg with preserving the tag information consists 
mostly out of building the commandline:

trans_table = {
     "Artist": "--artist",
     "Title": "--title",
     "Track": "--tracknum",
     "Genre": "--genre",
     "Year": "--date",
     "Album": "--album",
     "Comment": "-c ="}

def mp3ToOgg(tag, outdir, quality="3,5"):
     args = ["%s \"%s\"" % (trans_table[field], tag[field])
             for field in trans_table.keys() if tag[field]]
     args = " ".join(args)
     new = os.path.join(outdir, 
os.path.basename(tag.filename().replace(".mp3", ".ogg")))

     os.system("lame --decode \"%s\" -|oggenc -q %s -r -o \"%s\" %s -" % 
(tag.filename(), quality, new, args))


This example uses libtagedit (tag is a tageditor class). If you want 
more specific information, I could mail you some scripts I wrote.

greets

Torsten




From knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk  Thu Sep  4 17:59:29 2003
From: knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk (Martin Christensen)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:59:29 +0200
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
Message-ID: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Howdy!

Suppose I have a list A containing elements that I want to put into
list B if they satisfy some property. The obvious way of doing it
would be,

B = []
for i in A:
    if A.property():
       B.append(i)

Now, list comprehensions, map() etc. can make a lot of list operations
easier, but I haven't found a shorter, more elegant way of doing this.
Have I missed something, or will I have to stick to my explicit loops?

Martin

- -- 
Homepage:       http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using Mailcrypt+GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org>

iEYEARECAAYFAj9XtcEACgkQYu1fMmOQldVX0wCeJ7gxV82QVCqRZ3r44vbkFquf
M3QAnRGXnV3l/KslD7LNxT9roVQhGgJM
=aVpW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Wed Sep  3 08:05:01 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:05:01 -0400
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
Message-ID: <005701c37213$9ae638b0$0c02a8c0@Arts>

> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>
> > In article <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg at speakeasy.net>,
> [...]
> > OTOH, Perens is also (like me ;-) a self-described asshole.  When I saw
> > him at the Waterside Conference earlier this year, he basically claimed
> > that only assholes could make significant progress in the Open Source
> > community.
> [...]
>

ahaz, is of course, being an opportunist.

The record will show that I am the first here to have made claim - in just
those words - of being a self-described asshole.

And heard no objection to the categorization.

which, it now seems, puts me in charge ;

good!

Art





From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep  6 11:30:09 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:30:09 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com> <g_Y5b.25276$R32.778757@news2.tin.it> <74e674c13888643bf15a72e800c9d8ed@news.teranews.com> <Fxf6b.20653$hE5.755579@news1.tin.it> <bjc9a4$qso$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <54n6b.22635$hE5.830077@news1.tin.it>

Tassilo v. Parseval wrote:

> Also sprach Alex Martelli:
> 
> [ embedding an interpreter ]
> 
>> Another option you may want to consider is Ruby.  I don't know
>> how easy it is to interface it specifically to C++, and in
>> particular to get the cross-language subclassing and overriding
>> effect you want (which Boost provides so smoothly) -- but it's
>> basically the same power as Perl or Python, a distinctive style
>> of its own that along some axes lies in-between the two P's,
>> and a small but enthusiastic community.  Size-wise, though, I
>> don't think it will significantly help you.
> 
> The C interface of Ruby is very simple and clear (likewise the C code in
> which Ruby was written). It almost made me cry when I saw it and
> compared it to that of Perl. :-) It's probably also smaller than both
> Python and Perl. I don't know about Python, but Perl's unwrapped source
> is currently well beyond 50meg. In compiled form it's still pretty large

For Python, I count 1.8 MB of .h files, 7.6 MB of .C files, and
1.8 MB of .py files.  Of course, that includes all sort of things
such as the RISCOS and Mac/OS implementations, the Tkinter GUI
library, the IDLE integrated development environment, and a
bazillion other tools, unit and integration tests, and "weird" library
modules (Python lacks Perl's CPAN, so far, but does have a huge included
library).

In terms of compiled size, I see:

[alex at lancelot src]$ size /usr/bin/ruby
   text    data     bss     dec     hex filename
 569672    4192   56768  630632   99f68 /usr/bin/ruby

[alex at lancelot src]$ size /usr/bin/python*
   text    data     bss     dec     hex filename
 514283   90792    9240  614315   95fab /usr/bin/python2.1

(these are the latest statically linked ones I have around)
so the sizes would appear to be very directly comparable (sorry,
no statically linked perl around for comparison!).

> due to all the modules that come with Perl. Not sure whether the OP
> needs all of them though.

He did say he plans to cut things out selectively (e.g. sockets).


> The bridge to C++ should not be so hard considering that a C++ compilers
> wont mind to include C code as well (or can at the very least easily be
> convinced to do so).

Ah, but what the OP wants is specifically for (Python/Perl/Ruby) classes
to be able to inherit from C++ classes, override some methods, and be
callable from C++ with the overridden methods smoothing and transparently
executed.  That's far from being as simple as it sounds -- it just can't
be done at a purely C level, and Boost Python does manage to pull it off
with much C++ template metaprogramming (David Abrahams, Boost Python's
author, is one of the true magicians in this specific area).


Alex




From losnations at comcast.net  Fri Sep 12 00:17:53 2003
From: losnations at comcast.net (Marc)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:17:53 -0500
Subject: Canvas - Rectangle. Is there an easy way to detect if you're inside?
References: <4378fa6f.0309111159.7a9bb539@posting.google.com> <ekCdneV55u9Ij_yiXTWJhA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <0KScnYKghrLc1fyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>

The problem is that I have other objects in the rectangle that I'm basically
using as a holder. So if I use the closest function, then sometimes when I
have more than one object in the rectangle it will pick up the other
objects. Therefore I simply need a way of always knowing when the cursor is
within the bounds of the rectangle.

Like I say, I am doing it right now with a bunch of if statements. It works
fine. But it's sort of a brute force method. Seems kind of hackish. It just
seems like one of those things where there has to be a cleaner way.



"Gordon Airport" <uce at ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:ekCdneV55u9Ij_yiXTWJhA at comcast.com...
> Have you tried find_closest?
> Given a click event...
>
> x = cv.canvasx( event.x )
> y = cv.canvasy( event.y )
> cvid = cv.find_closest( x, y )[0]
> cv.itemconfig( cvid, fill = 'black' )
>
>





From gez_75 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 29 05:36:45 2003
From: gez_75 at hotmail.com (Gez)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 02:36:45 -0700
Subject: Wavelet package available?
Message-ID: <2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Does anyone know if there is a wavelet package available for Python?
This package should at least have the Daubechy wavelet.

Cheers,

Gez 75



From danielk at aracnet.com  Fri Sep 19 13:39:53 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:39:53 -0700
Subject: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
Message-ID: <dnfmmv0n8evvu238thm96t3k2iff7dm33d@4ax.com>

http://www.dailyllama.com/news/2003/llama206.html



From roberto at dealmeida.net  Sat Sep 27 09:45:23 2003
From: roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De Almeida)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 06:45:23 -0700
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <10c662fe.0309270545.1fd5d839@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g at 4ax.com>...
> I would have expected, given that the tuple contains slice objects
> constructed from the multiple-slice notation, that the same
> translations would be performed on the slices that are inserted into
> the tuple that are applied when the single slice is created.
> 
> That is, whether the single or multiple notation is used, and whether
> the slice objects are placed in a tuple or not, they are constructed
> from the tuple notation - the translation from notation to slice
> object should be done consistently.

Yes, I believe I was not very clear. This is the inconsistency I was
talking about. (And this is with Python 2.3.1)
 
> >What you probably want is b[:-1][:-1], etc.  Each index must be
> >separately bracketed to access items in list of lists (etc).
> Maybe. Maybe not. I assumed he was doing something similar to what
> happens in numeric - they do some rather interesting
> slicing-of-multidimensional-container things over there. Of course I'm
> not a numeric user, so I may be misunderstanding things.

Yes, you're right.

The problem with b[:-1][:-1] is that it will return b[:-1], and then
slice the result again. It's ok if you're working with lists, but not
for what I'm doing.

I'm working in a client to access OPeNDAP servers. It's basically data
served through http, with some metadata and the ability to specify the
variables and ranges you want.

For example, if you have a dataset served at:

  http://server/cgi-bin/opendap/dataset.nc

You can download the variable "A" as ASCII with the following URL:

  http://server/cgi-bin/opendap/dataset.nc.ascii?A

If you want only part of "A", in binary (xdr) format:

  http://server/cgi-bin/opendap/dataset.nc.dods?A[1:10][1:5][6]

What I'm doing is this:

>>> from opendap import client
>>> data = client.dataset("http://server/cgi-bin/opendap/dataset.nc")
>>> print data.variables["A"].shape
(20,10,12)
>>> A = data.variables["A"][1:10,1:5,6]

Data is only retrieved when you slice a variable like above, and only
the data sliced is requested from the OPeNDAP server, instead of the
whole range. If I use multiple slices, eg,

>>> A = data.variables["A"][1:10][1:5][6]

then first the client will have to download A[1:10][:][:], and slice
it later -- more data than needed will be retrieved. If instead I pass
a tuple of slices, I can construct the URL

  http://server/cgi-bin/opendap/dataset.nc.dods?A[1:10][1:5][6]

and request from the server only the data that will be used, and
return it as a Numeric array.

Roberto



From DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org  Fri Sep 26 18:52:44 2003
From: DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org (DeepBleu)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:52:44 GMT
Subject: Passing a String to a Python CGI Script
References: <AY3cb.104524$834.93516@twister.austin.rr.com> <METcb.113316$z32.83149@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <0r3db.113900$z32.73864@twister.austin.rr.com>

I figured this thing out.  But, really truly no one could have suggested the
use of standard I/O????
DeepBleu

"DeepBleu" <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote in message
news:METcb.113316$z32.83149 at twister.austin.rr.com...
> I'll reword that:
> A client is writing a string to the web server (IPlanet on a Sun Server)
> using a java program.  The client then establishes a connection with a cgi
> Python program on the server.  This client wants the string to be passed
> into this cgi Python script on the server.
> There are no name=value request pairs.  How can this cgi Python script
read
> the string sent to the web server.  The client is POSTING the string as a
> REQUEST.  For the Pythong cgi script I am using CGI module to handle
> requests and responses.  However, how do you handle this REQUEST?
>
> "DeepBleu" <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote in message
> news:AY3cb.104524$834.93516 at twister.austin.rr.com...
> > When one is using an HTML form via a web broswer, the user submits the
> form
> > contents and these are passed to a CGI Python script on the web server.
> > I need to write a client script that connects to a web site, runs a
Python
> > CGI script on the web server AND passes a string to the CGI Python
script
> > that the Python CGI script can store/manipulate/evalute etc....
> > I know how to connect to the web site and run the CGI Python script
using
> a
> > client Python script with the urllib module.  But how do I submit/send a
> > string via this client Python script to the web server on behalf of the
> CGI
> > Python script?  Can someone give me a clue or a hint on how to do that?
> Do
> > I write the string to the web server?  If so, how would the CGI Python
> > script know about it, read it, and store it?
> > Thanks,
> > DeepBleu
> >
> >
>
>





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 16:48:48 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:48:48 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com>

"Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote in message
news:qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn at the-wire.com...
> In article <vlhidvcpq9a980 at news.supernews.com>,
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
> >"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> >news:3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> >> In article <vlhba85atlte07 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> >>  2) It would mean that there's some sort of difference between
> >>     a function and a method.
> >
> >I don't understand your point. There is currently a difference
> >between a function and a method that could be eliminated by
> >making self a reserved word and removing it from the method
> >header. Or have you never tried to invoke a method from the
> >wrong context and gotten the "unbound method" error?
>
>    There's no difference in the sense that a method is
> simply a function whose first parameter refers to the class
> instance to be worked on.  No magic words, no "undeclared"
> parameters.  It means that in my demo code in limitcases.py
> (somewhere in the newsgroup lately) I can say
>
>     limitcases.Lowest.__str__ = lambda x: "-Infinity"
>
> to give the Lowest class a new method sans ennuis.

But why do it that way? Neither Java nor Ruby require
giving the instance a name. Hence my comment that requiring
it is more complex than not requiring it.

John Roth
>
>         Regards.        Mel.





From james.kew at btinternet.com  Sat Sep 20 18:09:49 2003
From: james.kew at btinternet.com (James Kew)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:09:49 +0100
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it> <ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bkij7j$23ij7$1@ID-71831.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Phil Weldon" <pweldon at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773 at newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> My guess is that the internet will not open on Monday.

Yeah, well, death of the Internet's been predicted many times before and
hasn't happened yet.

F-Secure's writeup is pretty good at describing the various attacks and
texts the worm uses:
http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/swen.shtml

FWIW, for me Bayesian filtering is doing a pretty good job on both the fake
security advisories and the fake bounce messages. (Somewhat ashamedly, I'll
admit to using POPFile (Perl) rather than the SpamBayes (Python) -- as a
POP3 proxy solution it seemed slightly slicker at the time...)

James





From ec at clif2.com  Wed Sep 17 12:22:37 2003
From: ec at clif2.com (Elliot Clifton)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 09:22:37 -0700
Subject: [newbie] Manipulating Dates
Message-ID: <3cad211d.0309170822.b31822@posting.google.com>

X-No-archive: yes

Hi,

How do I do the following with the Date object:

newDate = oldDate + 3 months

What would that be in Python code?

Thanks,

Elliot



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Wed Sep 24 07:38:42 2003
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 04:38:42 -0700
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <09a3d6364c.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0309240338.1e4dd261@posting.google.com>

Tim Howarth <tim at worthy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> print "Location: http://abcxyz/index.html"

> AFAIUI it simply sends a redirect header.

Yep; however, if you include a relative URI with no hashpart:

  print 'Location: /index.html'
  print

Then the server should send that page to the browser directly, without
sending a redirect back to the browser. This may be preferable in
some cases.

(The second print is needed to end the CGI response headers.)

Full spec here:

  http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/cgi/interface.html

(Using JavaScript or meta-refresh to do redirects is almost always a
really terrible idea.)

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/



From seberino at spawar.navy.mil  Tue Sep 30 19:11:09 2003
From: seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 16:11:09 -0700
Subject: distutils (packaging) newbie questions please....
Message-ID: <bf23f78f.0309301511.376225b0@posting.google.com>

I really want to learn distutils to professionally package some open
source software.

I had some distutils questions after reading python.org distutil docs
on packaging code
if you don't mind.  I would really appreciate some help.....


0. I'm confused about use of the word "package" in setup.py.  
    packages = ["<package1>", "<package2>", ...]
    Does package here just mean "a new directory of source code to
consider"???

1. What exactly goes into the __init__.py files? I know what to put in
setup.py
    and I know __init__.py is used for packages but I don't know what
to put IN this file.

2. About the data_files option for setup.py....

      data_files = [ "<installation directory>", [ "<file1>",
"<file2>", ...] ]

   Is there a way to AVOID having to type EVERY single data file?? Can
I specify
   just the directory or use wild cards??

3.  python setup.py sdist   will make a package of SOURCE code and
    using "bdist" will put BINARIES in package.  What does this
mean???
    Will bdist packages unpack to pyc (bytecode) files and sdist will
unpack
    py (noncompiled) files????  What if I wanted py and pyc files
installed
    from the package?? (i.e. source and compiled versions)

Thanks!

Chris



From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Fri Sep 12 06:21:03 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:51:03 +0530
Subject: Can This Code Be Made Faster?
References: <mailman.1063358599.4816.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ou1xumz4s0.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "John" == John Abel <john.abel at pa.press.net> writes:

> I have a problem, in that the following code is sometimes failing.  I
> am stat'ing a list of files, but, sometimes, one of the files may be
> moved by an external process, after the os.path.exists and before the
> lstat, causing the script to fail.  My question, is there anything I
> can do to speed it up, or put in a trap, to stop the stat from failing?
>         fileTimes = [ ( os.lstat( os.path.join( rootPath, fileName )
> )[stat.ST_MTIME], fileName) for fileName in fileList \
>                                                                             if
> os.path.exists( os.path.join( rootPath, fileName ) ) ]

    
Then there's no point in doing os.path.exists(), you might as well call
os.lstat directly. Some like this should work:

======
fileTimes = []
for fileName in fileList:
    try:
        fileTimes.append(
            (os.lstat(os.path.join(rootPath, fileName)).st_mtime, fileName)
        )
    except:
        pass

======

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Sep 28 21:07:49 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:07:49 -0500
Subject: Python parser that records source ranges
In-Reply-To: <qRKdb.456249$Oz4.260848@rwcrnsc54>
References: <qRKdb.456249$Oz4.260848@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <20030929010749.GA21627@unpythonic.net>

The tokenize module will give column information for each token, but 
it produces a stream of tokens only, not an AST.

Jeff




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep  9 11:27:46 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:27:46 -0400
Subject: Ternery operator
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <bjhrj4$2loh4$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de> <3F5C7CBD.A6C97371@engcorp.com> <bjk6pl$2nir7$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <3F5DF172.6B59A2@engcorp.com>

Uwe Schmitt wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > Uwe Schmitt wrote:
> >>
> >> Andrew Chalk <achalk at xxxmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote:
> >> > Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?
> >>
> >> > I.e.:
> >>
> >> > fred = (x == 1) ? 12 : 15
> >>
> 
> > I would think a *Python* equivalent to ?: should not use
> > direct equality comparison with 1.  Better to drop the "==1"
> > parts in any of the above, to allow the usual Python interpretation
> > of what is True and what is False to occur.
> 
> > ...so fred = [12, 15][not x]  is sufficient.
> 
> You made a mistake, compare :

True, sorry.  I think I was thrown off by your explicit 
comparison with 1 in the original, and my critical nature
homed in on that aspect, thinking you were presenting another
example of a non-Pythonic way of evaluating True/False.

I'll make this point instead:  noting my mistake, and the
excited disagreement that followed in other replies (lots of
exclamation marks showing up!), this can only be seen as 
yet more evidence that using any of those alternatives to
a simple if/else is rather too likely to be error prone for
anyone to prefer it.

-Peter



From jfranz at neurokodeXREMOVEX.com  Wed Sep 24 17:11:47 2003
From: jfranz at neurokodeXREMOVEX.com (Jon Franz_antispam)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:11:47 -0400
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
References: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com> <3f71361f$0$97182$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <bZecb.14514$KJ5.11624@fe2.columbus.rr.com> <874qz22jah.fsf@pobox.com> <5mncb.14032$cK5.5101@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <01b201c382e0$77414fc0$7401a8c0@voidmk9>

> I _have_ used systems that returned a subset of matching records to
> the client, and found it very uncomfortable. That's why in my system I
> want to scratch my own itch, and return all the records.

Here are some odd ideas:
- Have the server do the original query, but put the results into a table
(temporary table? - depends upon the lifespan of temp tables in your RDBMS),
then let the server hand the client the name of this table.  The client then
queries for the records from the location the server gave it.  The table the
client queries is a one-time view of the data, thus your server code can do
any joins and logic needed for the biz rules, and the client simple does a
select * on the results.

- Stored procedures.  Move some of your biz logic into them, the server will
get simpler, and the occasional client by-pass of the server won't cause
headaches when the biz rules change.

- Warning, this one is ugly:   Write the query in such a way that the
results are preformated for transmission between the server and client.  For
example, using string concatenation, change your query to return 1 column,
which would contain a pickled object sutable for immediate transmission to
the client.  If you're not passing pickled objects, this will be easier,
since you just format the column to contain a valid line/record for sending
to the client.

~Jon Franz
NeuroKode Labs, LLC





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 19 20:04:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:04:26 -0400
Subject: Custom Execution from Python
References: <mailman.1064009910.29111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6B998A.FBA7E584@engcorp.com>

satish wrote:
> 
> I have a shared object executable  viz. *cable*  which I execute as follows :
> $ ansyscust71 -custom cable -p ANSYSRF
> 
> **ansyscust71 is a shell script and is a part of a software called ANSYS**
> 
> Now, I have generated a python module using a *fortran-python interface
> generator called F2PY* using the same *make rules* which were used to make
> *cable* when not using F2PY
> 
> I got a Python extension module named *cable_f2py* again.
> 
> From the python environment when I tried to execute *cable_f2py* ( this is
> python module due to F2PY), I got a segmentation error just like how I would
> get this error when I execute *cable* as follows when not using F2PY:
> 
> $ ./cable
> Segmentation Fault
> 
> However, when I execute it as follows, it works
> 
> $ansyscust71 -custom cable -p ANSYSRF  --> This is required for succesful
> execution
> 
> Now, I dont understand how I can mimic the above way of execution from within
> Python to execute *cable_f2py* which as I mentioned earlier is the result of
> making and linking all the same libraries which were used while making and
> linking cable
> 
> I am really confused

So are we, as most of what you describe above seems to have very little
relationship with Python.  You might need to think through your problem
and attempt to explain it in a different way for us to help you.  For
example, you don't show *how* you try to execute it "from the python 
environment".  Have you got some code to show us?

Anyway, as a bit of a long shot, are you aware of the os.system() function,
and the various other methods of running external executables?  If
you are already using one of those, you might want to show us how you
use it.

-Peter



From fuerte at sci.fi  Sat Sep  6 16:58:50 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 23:58:50 +0300
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
In-Reply-To: <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> In article <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874 at reader1.news.jippii.net>, Harri Pesonen wrote:
> 
>>I agree, it's not logical. I'm learning Python at the moment, and like 
>>it very much. This "self" thing seems to be the only odd feature,
> 
> It seemed quite natural to me, but perhaps that's because I'd
> used other languages that worked the same way.  Coming from
> Modula-3 and Smalltalk, the way classes worked in Python seemed
> quite intuitive.
> 
> OTOH, C++ seems like a real non-intuitive mess to me.
> 
>>it feels like the whole class feature was added later.
> 
> Why?

Because everything else in Python seems to be very compact, there are no 
variable type declarations, or variable declarations, or anything else 
unnecessary that can be omitted. I would like to have self omitted, it 
would make the class syntax more beautiful and compact. On the other 
hand, I would like to have real private methods.

Also I think that the class members should be explicitly declared. In 
general, it would be nice to have an option (like Option Explicit in 
Visual Basic) so that you can't assign to variables that have not been 
declared. It would probably make Python less error prone. Also if 
variable declarations could have the type, again some errors could be 
detected at compile time.

I have not written any real Python applications yet, so I'm not expert, 
these are just my thoughts at this point.

Harri




From bluheaven2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 20:12:49 2003
From: bluheaven2 at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 17:12:49 -0700
Subject: Python port to Swiss Ephemeris work with 2.3?
Message-ID: <734b753f.0309041612.2066021@posting.google.com>

Hi, I was just wondering if anyone knows whether it's possible to use the
Python port to the Swiss Ephemeris with the latest version Python 2.3?
I downloaded it from the vault, and it worked fine with Python 2.2.2, but
then when I switched to Python 2.3 it gives me this error:

"ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found"

Yet it has no problem importing the rest of the modules which are in the
same directory as the dll.  Does anyone know what's going on?  Am I stuck
using the older version of Python for the Swiss Ephemeris?  Thanks -Dave



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Sep 20 07:28:50 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 13:28:50 +0200
Subject: Help Compiling 64bit Python
References: <mailman.1064055636.13785.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3brtf3dhp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

John Abel <john.abel at pa.press.net> writes:

> c++   -o python \
>                 Modules/python.o \
>                 libpython2.3.a -lresolv -lsocket -lnsl -lrt -ldl
> -lpthread   -lm
> ld: fatal: file Modules/python.o: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
> ld: fatal: File processing errors. No output written to python
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> make: *** [python] Error 1
> 
> I'd be very grateful for any pointers.

You need to arrange to use the -m options in the linker line as well.

Looking at the generated Makefile will tell you where to best insert
these options.

Regards,
Martin



From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Fri Sep 12 11:06:03 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 11:06:03 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org> <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org> <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org> <000b01c37824$c972de10$3a0ff10c@teaset> <mailman.1063290822.30564.python-list@python.org> <VH98b.420355$Ho3.66640@sccrnsc03>
Message-ID: <m3isny3v38.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

"Al Kirke" <alkirke1 at comcast.net> writes:

> It shouldn't be on the python group..  It was off-topic and I
> should not have replied.

  [ More pro-gun rhetoric snipped. ]

And yet, you are still determined to push your agenda, despite your
admission that it's OT and you should not have replied.

Real nice.

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From news at fairford.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 05:32:13 2003
From: news at fairford.co.uk (jim)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:32:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: WaitCommEvent error
Message-ID: <bl112s$ccr$1@titan.btinternet.com>

Hi, All
I am using python (activestate 2.2.2-224) on XP home and have suddenly got
the
following error from a file which worked fine under millenium.

self.Overlapped = win32file.OVERLAPPED()
self.overlapped.hEvent = CreateEvent(None, 0, 0, None)

hComm = win32file.CreateFile(comport,
          win32con.GENERIC_READ | win32con.GENERIC_WRITE,
          0,
          None,
          win32con.OPEN_EXISTING,
          win32con.FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL | win32con.FILE_FLAG_OVERLAPPED,
          None)

Error -

 File "E:\code\Python\PyModbus\FEModbusV101.py", line 162, in ComPortWrite
    rc,mask =win32file.WaitCommEvent(self.hComm,self.Overlapped)
api_error: (87, 'WaitCommError', 'The parameter is incorrect.')


I think the api call requires 3 parameters but only 2 are used in python any
ideas ?

many thanks
 Jim





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 07:11:29 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:11:29 GMT
Subject: Python embedded in C & memory releasing
References: <63701d2f.0309231819.31fdec85@posting.google.com> <87vfri14a3.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <B9Vcb.171250$R32.5477166@news2.tin.it>

John J. Lee wrote:

> leonardbocock at yahoo.com (lebo) writes:
> 
>> I'm trying to understand how Python handles memory usage and dynamic
>> object loading and unloading.  Problem to solve? Build a very low
>> memory footprint (non-GUI) Python application for Unix/Windows. Why
>> use Python? End user flexibility.
>> 
>> So far it seems that (on Windows):
>> (1) memory increases when you import <module>. Expected behaviour.
>> (2) memory does not release when you del <module>. Why not?  Is Python
>> not releasing the memory or is it the OS not releasing memory?
> [...]
> 
> On almost all OSes, processes hold on to all memory that has been
> allocated by the OS.  Memory released by a process can only be reused
> *by that same process*.  The OS only gets it back when the process
> exits.

This is not true any more these days!!!  Consider the following program:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

int main()
{
        char* blobbone;

        printf("No blob yet, measure me now, then press enter... ");
        while(getchar() != '\n') {}
        printf("\n");

        blobbone = malloc(1024*1024);

        printf("I have the blob, measure me now, then press enter... ");
        while(getchar() != '\n') {}
        printf("\n");

        free(blobbone);

        printf("No more blob, measure me now, then press enter... ");
        while(getchar() != '\n') {}
        printf("\n");

        printf("Bye bye.\n");
        return 0;
}

Using Ctrl-Z to suspend and Enter to continue, on Linux, we see:

[alex at lancelot sae]$ gcc mem.c
[alex at lancelot sae]$ ./a.out
No blob yet, measure me now, then press enter...
[1]+  Stopped                 ./a.out
[alex at lancelot sae]$ ps -C a.out v
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
32606 pts/6    T      0:00     73     1  1330  276  0.0 ./a.out
[alex at lancelot sae]$ fg
./a.out


I have the blob, measure me now, then press enter...
[1]+  Stopped                 ./a.out
[alex at lancelot sae]$ ps -C a.out v
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
32606 pts/6    T      0:00     82     1  2362  320  0.0 ./a.out
[alex at lancelot sae]$ fg
./a.out


No more blob, measure me now, then press enter...
[1]+  Stopped                 ./a.out
[alex at lancelot sae]$ ps -C a.out v
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
32606 pts/6    T      0:00     82     1  1334  316  0.0 ./a.out
[alex at lancelot sae]$ fg
./a.out


Bye bye.
[alex at lancelot sae]$

See?  the DRS grows from 1330 to 2362 K when the blob is allocated,
then drops back to 1334 when the blob is freed again.  I'm pretty
sure on Windows, with a good modern VC++ version, you'll see the
same, apart from the slightly higher difficulty of the "measure
me now" task;-).

And in Python...?  *SAME THING*!!!  Watch:

print "No blob yet, measure me now, then press enter...",
x = raw_input()
print

blobbone = 1024*256*[None]

print "I have the blob, measure me now, then press enter...",
x = raw_input()
print

del blobbone

print "No more blob, measure me now, then press enter...",
x = raw_input()
print

print "Bye bye."


[alex at lancelot sae]$ python mem.py
No blob yet, measure me now, then press enter...
[1]+  Stopped                 python mem.py
[alex at lancelot sae]$ ps -C python v
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
32648 pts/6    T      0:00    436   779  3864 2504  0.4 python mem.py
[alex at lancelot sae]$ fg
python mem.py


I have the blob, measure me now, then press enter...
[1]+  Stopped                 python mem.py
[alex at lancelot sae]$ ps -C python v
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
32648 pts/6    T      0:00    436   779  4892 3536  0.6 python mem.py
[alex at lancelot sae]$ fg
python mem.py


No more blob, measure me now, then press enter...
[1]+  Stopped                 python mem.py
[alex at lancelot sae]$ ps -C python v
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
32648 pts/6    T      0:00    436   779  3864 2508  0.4 python mem.py
[alex at lancelot sae]$ fg
python mem.py


Bye bye.
[alex at lancelot sae]$

See?  Just the same behavior -- DRS grows 3864->4892, then shrinks
back to 3864 when the blob is dropped.


The explanation of the behavior observed by the original poster is
quite different from the one you posit: rather, it is that
"del module" does NOT drop the module -- the module remains in
memory, fully available and loaded, and it is pointed to by
the appropriate entry sys.modules['module'] in case you want it
back.  That's all there is to it -- modules, as opposed to, say,
lists, are NOT so easily disposed of:-).


Alex




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep  1 04:31:18 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:31:18 +0200
Subject: Accessing class members from C
In-Reply-To: <LfC4b.7697$6r4.5256@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <LfC4b.7697$6r4.5256@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <biv04k$mel$05$1@news.t-online.com>

disgracelands wrote:

> Basically i have the python class object as a C
> pointer 

You mean, you have an instance object?

> and i want to access one of the class members, somevar, 

And you want to access an instance attribute?

I recommend to use PyObject_[Get|Set]Attr[String] (this would
actually work for class objects and class members as well).

Regards,
Martin




From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Sep 24 18:05:01 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:05:01 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <vn1uus5a74ce3a@news.supernews.com> <w57cb.1289$RW4.1142@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <cud2nv80bufr6gaaodqn302rmf3okv062i@4ax.com> <wBmcb.2169$RW4.543@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <hyocb.2306$RW4.2124@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Me:
> The only two I can think of are:

>        for i in range(len(obj)-1, -1, -1):  yield obj[i]

Peter Otten proposed a nice variation; assume negative
indicies work.  Then there's no need to assume len
works.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From baas at ira.uka.de  Wed Sep 10 16:42:07 2003
From: baas at ira.uka.de (Matthias Baas)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:42:07 +0200
Subject: ANN: Python Computer Graphics Kit v1.0.1
Message-ID: <123vlvo9vt41b6ubmufjni4m31gjicucsn@4ax.com>

The first non-beta release of the Python Computer Graphics Kit is
available at http://cgkit.sourceforge.net

What is it?
-----------

The kit is a collection of Python modules that contain the basic types
and functions required for creating 3D computer graphics images. The
kit includes several new types such as vectors, matrices and
quaternions. It contains a binding for Pixar's RenderMan interface
which is a renderer independent API to communicate 3D data to
renderers which will finally produce a 2D image. There are already
several RenderMan compliant renderers freely available (they are not
part of the kit). The kit also includes some of the functionality from
the RenderMan Shading Language which enables you to create procedural
models or textures from within Python.

Even though the kit focuses on RenderMan, the new types or the
Shading Language functionality can also be used for other rendering
mechanism such as OpenGL or other renderers such as POV-Ray.

The kit should run on any platform where Python (and a C/C++ compiler)
is available. Windows users can download a binary version for
Python 2.2 and Python 2.3.


What's new?
-----------

Finished the previously incomplete modules and added the corresponding
documentation. For a list of other minor bug fixes and enhancements
see the change log.

There has been release 1.0 available for a couple of days but the
binary for Python 2.2 was broken and the source zip contained a
modified version of the pre-generated file cgtypes.c which didn't work
on Linux. Release 1.0.1 is fixing these issues. If you were among
those who downloaded release 1.0 and you got it to work then you don't
have to download 1.0.1 again as there's no difference in
functionality.


For more information, visit:

http://cgkit.sourceforge.net


- Matthias -




From riquito at riquito.matrix  Thu Sep 25 09:51:05 2003
From: riquito at riquito.matrix (Riccardo Attilio Galli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:51:05 +0200
Subject: send email
References: <D44DA9C0-EF06-11D7-8841-000393C2D67E@colorstudy.com> <mailman.1064486793.21084.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.25.13.51.03.520871@riquito.matrix>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:46:16 +0100, Peter Nuttall wrote:

> here is a program to send emails with python. It was writien quickly so it is 
> not perfect. 
> [SNIP]
> 
> if anyone has any comments I would like to see them.
> 
> Peter

peter, your program write 'e-mail' absolutely not rfc2822 compliant.
read 
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2822.html
to know how should be a real e-mail message

This is an example of how the simplest e-mail should look like:

======================================
From: John Doe <jdoe at machine.example>
To: Mary Smith <mary at example.net>
Subject: Saying Hello
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:55:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1234 at local.machine.example>

This is a message just to say hello.
So, "Hello".
======================================

remembering that every line MUST end whit "\r\n"

Please try to make your program sending correct e-mail, because it's hard
to develop parser which understand e-mail written in non standard format.

Ciao,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep  9 09:12:03 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:12:03 -0400
Subject: set built-in func_code?
References: <bjk4v2$6iv$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vlrkd1b9m192b2@news.supernews.com>

"Birgit Rahm" <br_y at yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:bjk4v2$6iv$07$1 at news.t-online.com...
>
>
> Hello newsgroup,
>
> I want to set the built-in func_code in my function, how can I does this
in
> the correct way?

> My books dont tell me anything about this.

Check the index of the Python Reference Manual. You don't,
in general, want to set that value even though it's settable. At least,
you don't unless you've got an unusual amount of dynamism in your
program.

I'd suspect the reason  your help system is looking for the
code object is to find out the function name, which is in
the compiled code object.

John Roth
>
> TIA, Birgit
>
>





From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Sep  6 11:30:04 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 17:30:04 +0200
Subject: Help with a utility class and having a method call another method from within
References: <37500ed8.0309051159.1eef42c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjcusu$r9s$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Ian wrote:

> I have written this utility class that has a method which calls
> another method.  I don't want to pass in the self parameter and was
> wondering by doing this does it make the function to be private or
> uncallable outside of the class.

For new style classes, you can write methods without a self parameter:

class Sample(object):
    def test(arg):
        print arg
    test = staticmethod(test) # this is crucial

    def indirect(self, arg):
        Sample.test("indirect(%s)" % arg)

    def __mangled(self):
        # transformed into _Sample__mangled by the compiler
        pass

    def _privateByConvention(self):
        pass

and then call it with a class or instance:

Sample.test("from class")
instance = Sample()
instance.test("from instance")
instance.indirect("from instance")

In Python, privacy is rather a gentlemen's agreement. You can start a method
name with a single underscore "_" to signal "use at your own risk". 
Two underscores trigger some name mangling by the compiler and can be used
to avoid name clashes. Occasions where this is useful, e. g. to protect a
method against overriding in a subclass, should be rare.

Peter




From llothar at web.de  Wed Sep 17 09:43:33 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 06:43:33 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message news:<3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk>...
> Hi
> I would like to announce, for real this time, the release of BlackAdder
> V1.0.0. We have just finished our weekly conference during which I was give
> specific instructions by Shawn Gordon to make this announcement
> 
> I have uploaded the demos to http://www.rygannon.com and to
> http://www.totalrekall.co.uk

How about a useable trial version instead of demos.

As long as i can't try it out for 30 days in real work (saving files)
i will never consider buying it.



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 17:06:47 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:06:47 -0500
Subject: python 2.3, cvs module specific question
In-Reply-To: <3f565440$0$1114$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>
References: <3f565440$0$1114$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <16214.22503.138317.693442@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Bernard> But this is rejected:

    Bernard>      inf = file('data.csv')
    Bernard>      headers = inf.readline().split(';')
    Bernard>      rd = csv.DictReader( inf, headers, delimiter=';' )
    Bernard>      for row in rd:
    Bernard>          # ...

This is a known problem.  For the time being, define a new dialect class and
pass it in.  If you know what the delimiter is, it's easier to define a
class than call the sniffer.

    class semi(csv.excel):
        delimiter = ';'

    inf = file('data.csv')
    headers = inf.readline().split(';')
    rd = csv.DictReader(f, headers, dialect=semi)
    for row in rd:
        ...

    Bernard> If DialectReader does indeed not accept the optional "fmtparam"
    Bernard> then at least the documentation needs fixing. But then again I
    Bernard> may just be misreading it....

No, it's just a bug in my implementation.

Skip




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Sep 23 21:06:31 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:06:31 -0400
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
In-Reply-To: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030924010631.GA26263@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[John Lin]
> I want to know how to tell if a forked process is done.

A few people suggested `os.system()' already, and I presume this is what
you want and need.

In the less usual case you want concurrency between Python and the
forked shell command,  for only later checking if the forked process is
done, the usual way is to send a zero signal to the child using
`os.kill()'.  The zero signal would not do any damage in case your
forked process is still running.  But if the process does not exist, the
parent will get an exception for the `os.kill()', which you may
intercept.  So you know if the child is running or finished.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 04:04:03 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:04:03 +0100
Subject: Explaining how a (Mind) program works
References: <3LOdnYcq9oVxiOmiU-KYuA@metrocast.net> <3f748bc6@news.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <d4ganv4g367jj42nsbeo6poua0oonchet3@4ax.com>

On 26 Sep 2003 11:56:06 -0800, uj797 at victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray)
wrote:

>> Programming languages are for controlling computers,
>> not for communicating with people.

Oh dear. I hope I never have to maintain any of your code :-(

Actually, getting serious, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions
about your coding style and I agree that access to the original
author/earlier maintainers/additional documentation can be a great
help when trying to understand code. It is easy to believe that your
code expresses the 'why' as well as the 'how' when you are familiar
with it, but to learn otherwise when someone else has to read it.

But still, I think that statement is simply false. Source code should
not just written to control computers, but also to be understood and
maintained by people.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From achrist at easystreet.com  Wed Sep 10 19:29:43 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:29:43 -0700
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F8742.C1C66903@engcorp.com> <3F5F95B9.A8CB5786@easystreet.com> <3F5F9A8C.CA54DD5D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F5FB3E7.C17FF181@easystreet.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> The real question might be why would you want to?
> 
> If you don't want a thread, but you want something which takes
> input from elsewhere and does some processing, then returns
> control to some other place until more data is available (which
> is what one might assume if threads aren't good for you), there
> is already a convenient solution: the subroutine.  ;-)
> 
> Seriously, what's the requirement driving the need for this?
> (I suspect Erik Max's answer is still what you need, and you
> misunderstand the nature of what he was suggesting, but if you'll
> explain the specific case you have in mind we'll know for sure.)
> 

No, I didn't say that I didn't want a thread.  If there are no 
serious drawbacks to relying heavily on threads, I'd be glad to
use them.  This would be deluxe.

There really isn't any need for a generator, but it is a very
nice way to construct the input side of a program (the caller
doesn't have to worry about expicitly calling initialization and
finalization).  Some kind of through-the-looking-glass version
of a generator would be a very nice way to construct the output
side.   

I decided to test threads to see what happens:

-------------Warning, Code Follows---------------------

import Queue
import thread
import time

queues  = [Queue.Queue()]
threads = []

appendLock = thread.allocate_lock()

def TransferData(queues, atPos):
    while len(queues) < atPos + 1:
        pass
    inputQueue = queues[atPos]
    outputQueue = Queue.Queue()
    appendLock.acquire()
    queues.append(outputQueue)
    appendLock.release()
    while 1:
        data = inputQueue.get(True)
        outputQueue.put(data, True)

startTime = time.time()
for i in range(1000):
    print i,
    threads.append(thread.start_new_thread(TransferData, (queues, i)))
    queues[0].put(i, True)
    appendLock.acquire()
    print queues[-1].get(True)
    appendLock.release()

print time.time() - startTime


--------------Warning Discussion Follows -------------------------

Running this on my Windows NT 200 NHz machine gave decent results.  
With 1000 threads and 1000 Queues, memory used was 24MB.  Python 
takes almost 10 MB to start, so the overhead per thread + Queue
is only a little over 10 kb.  Passing all the messages through
the chain took 2.5 minutes, so we are down around a quarter millisec
for each put or get.

That should be pretty good for many uses.  


Al



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Sep 30 09:00:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 13:00:39 GMT
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blbupn$pf6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:20:21 -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote previously:
>|I just wrote a fairly simple sieve, which gave primes up to 1,000,000
>|in a few seconds (1.8GHz P4, Python code). There were 78498 primes in
>|that range...at least in theory there should be less than 100 times as
>|many primes in the range up to 10^8.
>
>Quite a few less, actually.  Under Gauss' Prime Number Theorem, an
>approximation for the number of primes less than N is N/ln(N).  I know
>there have been some slight refinements in this estimate since 1792, but
>in the ranges we're talking about, it's plenty good enough.
>
>So I only expect around 5,428,681 primes less than 10^8 to occur.  Well,
>that's not SO much less than 7.8M.
>
>|So here's the thought - a binary file containing a complete list of
>|primes up to 10^8 would require roughly 30MB (using 32 bit integers,
>|which should comfortably handle your requirement).
>
If the object is to be able to test primeness of an arbitrary candidate number
in range(10**8), I think I might just make a bit map of the 10**8 on disk,
which would only be
 >>> 10**8/8000000.
 12.5
megabytes.

In fact, that's not that bad to hold in memory, but
you could calculate an exact sector to seek to and read and then you
can check the bit pretty fast. It might be interesting to make a timed
access map for sectors, to see what kinds of seek/read delays there are
on the average. But it would be hard/timeconsuming to reset/flush the OS
and controller cache states to get mechanical delay info. Perhaps it has
to be done at the BIOS level out of non-protected DOS or a disk mounted raw...

Anyway, getting to a known (file-relative) sector and only reading that sector
ought to be about as fast as you could get the info off the disk for an arbitrary
number, IWT.

Nth-prime and how-many-below-N would need some other representations.

>I wonder if such a data structure is really necessary.  Certainly it
>produces a class of answers quite quickly.  I.e. search for a prime, and
>its offset immediately gives you the number of primes less than it.
>Heck, searching for any number, even a composite occurring between
>primes, works pretty much the same way.  Of course, the above
>approximation gives you a close answer even quicker.
>
>But if you are worried about disk storage, one easy shortcut is to store
>a collection of 16-bit differences between successive primes.  That's
>half the size, and still lets you answer the desired question *pretty*
>quickly (extra addition is required)... or at least generate a local
>copy of Horne's data structure in one pass.
>
>Moving farther, even this gap structure is quite compressible.  Most
>gaps are quite a bit smaller than 65536, so the highbits are zeros.  In
>fact, I am pretty sure that almost all the gaps are less than 256.  So
>an immediate compression strategy (saving disk space, costing time to
>recreate the transparent structure) is to store gaps as 8-bit values,
>with a x00 byte escaping into a larger value (I guess in the next two
>bytes).
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the gaps are less than 16...
I wonder what the largest gap between primes in range(10**8) is, and what
the distribution of gaps might be. 

>
>Maybe I'll try it, and see how small I can make the data... unless I do
>my real work :-).
>
Hm, the bit map stores the same information in another form, so if you
generate that, a zip compression of that ought to give an idea of how
small you are competing with.

You could translate the bit map to a sequence of prime counts for 8 or 16-bit
chunks with a simple 2*8 or 2**16 byte table mapping bytes or 16-bit chunks to
the counts of bits within them, then sum and only fiddle with one bit chunk to
make an nth-prime table...

The bit map ought to be pretty compressible, since all the bits at indices of a
multiple of 2, 3, 5, and 7 beyond the first byte should be zero, so even as bytes,
the alphabet ought to contain a lot less than 256 states.

Or you could pre-compress the bit map using a mask of redundant zeroes (beyond the
first chunk) generated from some smallish set of small primes like 2,3,5,7. Probably
hard to beat zip though.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From usenet at microtonal.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 15:36:26 2003
From: usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:36:26 +0100
Subject: Win32 Com + ADO: How to compare the result of a recordset to
 'nothing'
In-Reply-To: <3c91a864.0309151108.5597753d@posting.google.com>
References: <tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500@news.indigo.ie> <3c91a864.0309151108.5597753d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Hwo9b.3$Jv1.2@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

logistix at cathoderaymission.net wrote:

> Recordsets have a .BOF property that is similar to .EOF, but indicates
> that your cursor is before the first record.  If both .BOF and .EOF
> are true, you have a null recordset.  So something like:
> 
> if not(rst.BOF and rst.EOF):
>     rst.MoveFirst()
> 
> should work.

Maybe should, but frequently doesn't.  Although the books tell you to do 
this, I've never found it to be any use.  SQL Server, at any rate, 
always sets the cursor to the first record, so rst.EOF is enough to test 
for no records.  The problem comes when nothing is returned, which is 
different to no records being returned.  (In Query Analyser, you see 
nothing, instead of column names with nothing underneath.)  In that 
case, I find checking for rst.State==1 does the trick.  I think BOF 
fails the same way as EOF in this case (if the record set's closed, it's 
an error to even ask where the cursor is).

 From the error message, I don't think this is the OP's problem, though. 
  You would see something telling you not to do that on a closed record 
set.  I suggest poking the object in an interpreter, and looking in 
pywintypes, if nobody has any better ideas.


                Graham




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 30 14:39:16 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:39:16 -0500
Subject: Python Windows Source?
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0309300954.29b155d@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0309300954.29b155d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16249.52692.51406.580615@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Joey> This seems like a simple question but I keep looking and can't
    Joey> seem to find it anywhere. Do I have to check it out directly from
    Joey> CVS. Is there anywhere I can download the source already
    Joey> compiled. All I really want is to be able to compile PIL.

I don't believe there is a distribution which contains object files
(compiled, but not yet linked).  You can get the Python source code from
here:

    http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.3.1/Python-2.3.1.tgz

(that's a gzipp'ed tar file), or the Windows binary installer from here:

    http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.3.1/Python-2.3.1.exe

There is nothing in between.

Skip




From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Sep 29 16:10:57 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:10:57 -0700
Subject: append log file
In-Reply-To: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <200309291310.57700.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Monday 29 September 2003 12:53 pm, Tom wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a log file and of course I want to add the new information to the
> end of that log file. Unfortunately I always delete the old information
> and only append the current info.
>
> Right now I do it like this:
> I call a module which consists of a class and a function. It actually
> doesn't matter, but I just included it for the sake of completeness.
> The module looks like this:
>
> class log_C:
>     def errorlog(self, filename, Data, d):
>         LogFile = file(filename, 'w')
>         ErrorInfo = Data[d+1]
>         LogFile.write(ErrorInfo)
>         LogFile.close()
>
> How can I add the new info without deleting the old info?
> I tried the modes 'a' and 'a+' but they both didn't work. Actually the
> data was totally unreadable! It was kind of messed up. :-( I don't know
> why.

Well ... A mode of "a" is the correct thing, abd it works just fine
for me.  So we need to know some other things to solve this problem.

What platform?

Is the data ascii or binary? (If binary on win32, then you probably
need mode "ab" or some such)

Exactly what do you mean by "messed up"?  

Gary Herron






From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Sep 23 18:34:26 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:34:26 +1000
Subject: Memory allocation
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEBF967B@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Batista, Facundo [mailto:FBatista at uniFON.com.ar]
> 
> The detail is that I *already have* the serialized object in disk, so:
> 
> 	1. Load the pickled object from disk (already must)
> 	2. Unpickle the object to memory (already must)
> 	3. Keep the "backup" pickled object in memory
> 	4. ...
> 	5. Pickle the object (already must)
> 	6. Compare to the backup object
> 	7. If different, write to disk (already must)
> 
> So, the only overhead in the change of process is 
> 
> 	1) keep the backup pickled object in memory: can do this if the
> memory space overhead is not too big. 
> 	2) compare the serialized objects: if is to prevent a 
> disk access,
> makes the system faster.

So why not just try it? Set up a number of test cases, using various amounts of data, then see what happens.

It would take a lot less time to just set this up and try it than to ask questions that have no right answer.

Tim Delaney




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep  3 17:57:31 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:57:31 +0200
Subject: python 2.3, cvs module specific question
References: <3f565440$0$1114$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <bj5of2$tao$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Bernard Delm?e wrote:

> Hello, I can't seem to be able to specify the delimiter when building a
> DictReader()
> 

DictReader currently does not accept parameters for creating a dialect on
the fly. See Bug #792558.

> One rather convoluted workaround is the following:
> 
>      inf = file('data.csv')
>      d = csv.Sniffer().sniff(s)
>      inf.seek(0)
>      headers = inf.readline().split(';')
>      rd = csv.DictReader( inf, headers, dialect=d )
>      for row in rd:
>          # ...
> 

Another workaround might be (untested)

class MyDialect(csv.excel):
    delimiter = ";"
   
inf = file('data.csv')
headers = inf.readline().split(';')
rd = csv.DictReader(inf, headers, dialect=MyDialect)

Of course your version should be more general, especially if you replace the
literal ';':

headers = inf.readline().split(d.delimiter)


Peter




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 19 07:21:58 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:21:58 -0400
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <mailman.1063958979.19446.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6AE6D6.5DB1546D@engcorp.com>

Christian Tanzer wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > But it doesn't really modify the *language's* behaviour in the way
> > implied by a simplistic reading of the above phrase.  That is, the
> > "obvious" interpretation is that syntax and grammar are being affected,
> > not just the behaviour of one small slice of the language, specifically
> > how classes behave.  In some languages the two things are not so
> > separate, but in Python they seem to be.
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> >>> class Nasty(type) :
> ...   def __new__(cls,name,bases,d):
> ...     return 1
> ...
> >>> class Surprise(object):
> ...   __metaclass__ = Nasty
> ...
> >>> Surprise
> 1
> >>> type(_)
> <type 'int'>
> >>>

I don't see how that changes the syntax or grammar of the language.
You're just playing with types.

-Peter



From sheu at bu.edu  Tue Sep 23 10:32:46 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:32:46 -0400
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
In-Reply-To: <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com>
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu>

Great thanks for all the answers!
I really enjoy Python and learned a lot here.

-shuhsien





From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Sep 24 03:53:31 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 09:53:31 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com> <bkpvml$m67$06$1@news.t-online.com> <m3brtbp4h2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bkqgsm$ije$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3vfri39ms.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> While we are at it, would it be viable to "abuse" the
> encoding/decoding mechanism to do case conversions?

It might be viable, but I would consider it abuse: for one thing, I'm
not in favour of codecs which do Unicode->Unicode conversions - IMO, a
codec should convert between Unicode and byte strings. Furthermore, a
codec IMO should represent a proper "encoding", which case conversions
would not do.

Instead, it would be much better to provide such functions in a
library, e.g. by wrapping ICU. Then, case conversions should be done
locale-dependent, instead of being general (as .upper currently is).
The locale-dependent way would best operate on explicit locale
objects, so you would spell

locale_object = load_locale("German", "Plattdeutsch")
up_string = locale_object.to_upper(lower_string)

In that case, the upper-case function would stop being a string
method, and be a locale method instead, taking a string argument.

Regards,
Martin



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Sep 24 17:03:55 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:03:55 -0400
Subject: Announcement: ActiveState acquired by Sophos
References: <mailman.1064426135.17091.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lIydnRkR4Ilwm--iU-KYgw@comcast.com>

> As some of you have heard by now, ActiveState was acquired
> yesterday by Sophos Plc, a UK-based global anti-virus company, as
> described in this press release:
>
>
http://www.activestate.com/Corporate/Communications/Releases/Press1064364490.html
>
> and in this open letter to ActiveState customers:
>
> http://www.activestate.com/corporate/letter/.

Interesting timing for an anti-virus, anti-spam merge, given that I
(along with too many others) have been getting several hundred virus
spams a day since last Thursday.  I wish you could sell UD an
effective detect and delete package.

Congratulations on being valued at over $200,000/employee.  From what
I've read, this is a decent price and a validation of your collective
work.

...
> While I have to get back to work (on the usual things, like adding
Python >features to Komodo, help plan the next release of
ActivePython, help plan >for PyCon 2004, iron out legal issues for the
PSF and a few other things like >that), I'll be monitoring these
lists, and welcome email questions as well -- >send them to me at
DavidA at ActiveState.com.

Do you have an ETA for Active Python 2.3?

Terry J. Reedy





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep  9 15:21:05 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:21:05 -0700
Subject: Ternery operator
References: <mailman.1063110433.4804.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F5E2821.4AB14E5F@alcyone.com>

Michael Chermside wrote:

> Uwe Schmitt writes:
>
> > Normaly[sic] you should simulate "C ? T : F"
> >
> > either by
> >              [T,F][not C]
> >
> > or
> >
> >              (C and [T] or [F])[0]
> > ...
> 
> NOT TRUE!
> 
> NEITHER of your options does short-circuit evaluation.

The latter does, due to its use of and/or.  An equivalent form including
lambdas is

	(C and lambda: T or lambda: F)()

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From uce at ftc.gov  Mon Sep 22 17:31:04 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:31:04 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064239849.8596.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064239849.8596.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0omdnTV6gfvZ9_KiU-KYgw@comcast.com>

Wow, that's timely!
Good write-up.




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 06:45:21 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:45:21 +0200
Subject: [NEWBIE] access return values
References: <bkc0sc$rav7v$1@ID-131134.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bkc2de$gm9$02$1@news.t-online.com>

paul k?lle wrote:

> hi folks,
> 
> during the last couple of days I wrote my first small app with wxPython
> and it all works pretty well, but now I'm somewhat lost. I'd like to
> access the return value from a function inside an imported module (a
> method of a class of that module eh?)
> 
> ---gui.py----
> 
> from wxPython.wx import *
> from app.py import *
> 
> user=UserObject(config)  # class instance from app.py
> 
> the class UserObject has a function set_pwd() which returns a var, say
> "ch_success" indicating success/failure wich I'd like to pass to a
> Dialog to give some feedback to the user.
> 
> but:
> --in gui.py----
> 
> d=wxMessageDialog(self, user.ch_success,"Info:", wxICON_INFORMATION |
> wxOK)
> 
> gives:
> 
> AttributeError: UserObject instance has no attribute 'ch_success'
> 
> That makes sense, since ch_success is a local variable of set_pwd(), so
> I tried to make it global but with very little success so far. I tried:
> 
> --in app.py----
> 
> def set_pwd(someargs, moreargs)
> do stuff //
> ...
> global ch_success
> or:
> return ch_success
> or:
> self.ch_success
> 
> Nothing worked (but frankly, I don't really know what I'm doing here).
> 
> Any ideas? Thanks
> 
> Paul

A function does not keep its return value between calls. You have to bind it
like so:

func(args) # return value lost forever
value = func(args) #keep it in value

and can use value in subsequent code. I can only guess that set_pwd() is a
method of UserObject and ch_success an attribute:

class UserObject:
    set_pwd(self, pwd):
        # your code
        self.ch_success = True # say, the pwd was successfully set

which would be used:

user = UserObject()
user.set_pwd("secret")
print user.ch_success

Please post *real* code and the resulting tracebacks to allow for a more
detailed analysis. 

Peter



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 06:57:52 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:57:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Parsing python file by statement in python
References: <pan.2003.09.11.06.52.21.760704@nospam.com.au> <3F605192.5010405@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <Xns93F3794C4267Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Tim <fukawitribe at netscape.net> wrote in news:3F605192.5010405 at netscape.net:

> don't really want to compile the statement until have a top level block 
>   - have seen some scripts that do incremental command_compiles() on 
> readlines until they get back non-None but these obviously balls up on 
> statements like
> 
> for i in range(n) :
>     foo(i)
>     bar(i)

code.compile_command handles this like the interactive interpreter, the 
trick is to make sure you have newlines separating the lines, but no 
trailing newline. This simulates the interactive thing of needing a blank 
line to terminate the block.

>>> import code
>>> code.compile_command("x=3")
<code object ? at 00917340, file "<input>", line 1>
>>> code.compile_command("for i in range(n):")
>>> code.compile_command("for i in range(n):\n  foo(i)")
>>> code.compile_command("for i in range(n):\n  foo(i)\n  bar(i)")
>>> code.compile_command("for i in range(n):\n  foo(i)\n  bar(i)\n")
<code object ? at 00927FF0, file "<input>", line 1>
>>> 

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From ben.young at transversal.com  Wed Sep 10 05:56:46 2003
From: ben.young at transversal.com (Ben Young)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:56:46 +0000
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063132305.28723.python-list@python.org>
References: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1063132305.28723.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0309100947550.1659-100000@fileserver.cluster.local>


On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, David Mertz wrote:

> ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com) wrote previously:
> |"Metaclass Programming In Python, Parts 1 and 2"
> |I get the fact that the instance of a metaclass is a class, but in
> |this case I fail to see why the following does'nt work:
>
> Read part 2 again.  It takes a while to sink in.
>
> Your problem is that you aren't considering the MRO of Class:
>
>   >>> class Meta(type):
>   ...     def __str__(cls):     # Use 'return', not 'print'
>   ...             return "I am " + repr(cls)
>   ...     def foo(cls):
>   ...             return "I am " + repr(cls)
>   ...
>   >>> Class = Meta("Fish", (), {})
>   >>> Class.foo()
>   "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"
>
> Class is an instance of Meta, just like you expect.  Calling the .foo()
> method shows this.  But when you call a method, the method name is
> checked in the -method resolution order- (before the metaclass is
> checked):
>
>   >>> Class.mro()
>   [<class '__main__.Fish'>, <type 'object'>]
>
> Fish doesn't define a method .__str__(), so Python looks in Fish's
> parent, object.  Well, object -does- define, .__str__(), so your call
> resolves to:
>
>   >>> object.__str__()
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   TypeError: descriptor '__str__' of 'object' object needs an argument
>
> Of course, since object doesn't define a .foo(), resolution proceeds to
> the metaclass.  If you want to get Class' metaclass method, you can let
> Python do the magic for you:
>
>   >>> str(Class)
>   "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"
>
> Or if you want to be really explicit:
>
>   >>> Class.__class__.__str__(Class)
>   "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"
>
> Yours, David...

Right I think i'm getting there now. Thanks to all those who replied!

I see now that *instances* if classes must always look in their class dist
because they _don't have an mro_, whereas classes do and this is always
looked at first, causing the unbound method error.

Does this mean function calls are done something like this (untested code)

mro = getattr(obj, "mro", None)
if mro:
	for i in mro:
		func = getattr(i, "function")
		if func:
			return func(*args, **kw)

#Fall through
return getattr(type(obj), "function")(obj, *args, **kw)

Ben
---

>
> --
>     _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
>    _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
>   _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
>  _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/
>
>
>



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep 22 21:59:16 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:59:16 -0600
Subject: Connect to VBA Objects?
In-Reply-To: <vmv8d1hdf55ia0@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vmv8d1hdf55ia0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030922195446.034375c0@66.28.54.253>

At 07:38 PM 9/22/2003, Kenneth Hutson wrote:

>Hi,
>I wonder if Python can connect to the object models exposed by Excel or Word.

Use Mark Hammond's win32all. 
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html

import win32com.client
app = win32com.client.Dispatch("word.application")
app.visible = 1
documents = self.app.Documents
doc = documents.Add("c:\\foo.doc")

etc.

app = win32com.client.Dispatch("excel.application")
app.visible = 1
app.WorkBooks.Open("c:\\foo.xls")

etc.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From xy at nikolaidis.com  Thu Sep 25 08:05:19 2003
From: xy at nikolaidis.com (Peter Nikolaidis)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:05:19 -0400
Subject: MySQLdb installed, won't connect on OSX
Message-ID: <88819D23-EF50-11D7-A633-00039393C622@nikolaidis.com>

Greetings,

	I am attempting to get MySQLdb 0.9.2 installed on Mac OS 10.2 with a 
Fink distribution of Python 2.2.2.  I have seen only a few posts on the 
subject, some of them relate to "conflicting header files," but I don't 
know what to do about conflicting header files, or where I would find 
them, and once I found them, which ones to remove.

	I have compiled MySQL 4.1 and installed into /usr/local/mysql, but 
since have moved to a Fink package installation or 4.0.13.  Although 
MySQLdb appears to install successfully (I think), I am unable to 
connect when I try, as shown below:

 >>> import sys
 >>> import MySQLdb
 >>> conn = MySQLdb.connect (db = 'mydb', host = 'localhost', user = 
'myuser', passwd = 'mypassword')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/__init__.py", line 63, 
in Connect
     return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
   File "/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line 
116, in __init__
     self.converter[types.StringType] = self.string_literal
TypeError: object does not support item assignment
 >>>

	My setup.py file contains the following (although I've tried many 
variations, commenting and uncommenting stuff with no real success):

# include files and library locations should cover most platforms
include_dirs = [
#    '/usr/include/mysql',
#	 '/usr/local/include/mysql',
#    '/usr/local/mysql/include/mysql',
	 '/sw/include/mysql'
     ]
library_dirs = [
#    '/usr/lib/mysql',
#	 '/usr/local/lib/mysql',
#    '/usr/local/mysql/lib/mysql',
	 '/sw/lib/mysql', '/sw/lib'
     ]

This is what happens when I build:

running build
running build_py
not copying CompatMysqldb.py (output up-to-date)
not copying _mysql_exceptions.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/__init__.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/converters.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/connections.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/cursors.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/sets.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/times.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/__init__.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/CR.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/FIELD_TYPE.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/ER.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/FLAG.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/REFRESH.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/CLIENT.py (output up-to-date)
running build_ext
skipping '_mysql' extension (up-to-date)

And when I run setup.py install:

running install
running build
running build_py
not copying CompatMysqldb.py (output up-to-date)
not copying _mysql_exceptions.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/__init__.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/converters.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/connections.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/cursors.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/sets.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/times.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/__init__.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/CR.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/FIELD_TYPE.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/ER.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/FLAG.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/REFRESH.py (output up-to-date)
not copying MySQLdb/constants/CLIENT.py (output up-to-date)
running build_ext
skipping '_mysql' extension (up-to-date)
running install_lib
not copying build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/_mysql.so (output 
up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/_mysql_exceptions.py (output 
up-to-date)
not copying build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/CompatMysqldb.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/__init__.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/connections.py (output 
up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/constants/__init__.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/constants/CLIENT.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/constants/CR.py (output 
up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/constants/ER.py (output 
up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/constants/FIELD_TYPE.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/constants/FLAG.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/constants/REFRESH.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying 
build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/converters.py (output 
up-to-date)
not copying build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/cursors.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/sets.py 
(output up-to-date)
not copying build/lib.darwin-6.6-PowerMacintosh-2.2/MySQLdb/times.py 
(output up-to-date)
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_mysql_exceptions.py to 
_mysql_exceptions.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/CompatMysqldb.py to CompatMysqldb.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/__init__.py to __init__.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py to 
connections.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/constants/__init__.py to 
__init__.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/constants/CLIENT.py to 
CLIENT.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/constants/CR.py to CR.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/constants/ER.py to ER.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/constants/FIELD_TYPE.py to 
FIELD_TYPE.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/constants/FLAG.py to FLAG.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/constants/REFRESH.py to 
REFRESH.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/converters.py to converters.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/cursors.py to cursors.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/sets.py to sets.pyc
skipping byte-compilation of 
/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/times.py to times.pyc


	Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Peter





From rnia at algonet.se  Tue Sep 30 14:25:52 2003
From: rnia at algonet.se (.r!kard)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:25:52 +0200
Subject: intercepting smtp email
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj6j3dv1di62b@news.supernews.com> <blc6f3$3si$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj8qip9k85a39@news.supernews.com> <5Uieb.49566$Lw6.2263065@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <blchun$o5u$1@green.tninet.se>

Google rules:
http://home.student.utwente.nl/g.v.berg/btk/
http://pycap.sourceforge.net
http://www.ghaering.de/python/unsupported/pylibpcap/
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/1578279

*pheew* that was some real hardcore Googeling I can tell you...

.r!kard


"Rudy Schockaert" <rudy.schockaert at pandora.be> wrote in message
news:5Uieb.49566$Lw6.2263065 at phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> Woldn't this require something like winpcap? I know some folks have
> attempted to call winpcap from within Python, but I don't know if they
> succeeded. If my memory serves well, it was Gerhard H?ring who did
> something with it.
>
> I would also be interested in something similar, but then for MSN
> traffic. Decoding the MSN Messenger stream is not the problem, capturing
> the traffic from a promiscous nic in Python is where I get stuck.
>
> >>Now you got me corious, is that possible in python?
> >>Possibly by extending it with som C of course...
> >
> >
> > I've got no idea where you would put that kind of hook
> > in Windows.
> >
> > John Roth
> <snip>
> >>>>>I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
> >>>>>traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can
> > do
> >>>>>something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
> >>>>>outgoing traffic, specifically.
>





From scott at hcsprogramming.com  Tue Sep 30 09:18:48 2003
From: scott at hcsprogramming.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 06:18:48 -0700
Subject: intercepting smtp email
Message-ID: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com>

I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can do
something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
outgoing traffic, specifically.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott



From jallan at smrtytrek.com  Mon Sep 22 11:24:50 2003
From: jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 08:24:50 -0700
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <299f1138.0309220724.7b684aa2@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<bkm919$ast$01$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> 
> > jallan wrote:
> > 
> >> But that really doesn't work properly. According to Unicode specs and
> >> German usage the uppercase of "?" is actually "SS", that is the single
> >> character "?" should uppercase to two characters.
> > 
> > Can you cite exact chapter and verse of the Unicode specs that say so?
> > According to the Unicode database,
> > 
> > http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt
> > 
> > has neither an uppercase mapping, nor a lowercase mapping.
> 
> It seems like UnicodeData.txt does not give the full story. Quoting from
> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt:
> 
> [...]

> # (For compatibility, the UnicodeData.txt file only contains case mappings
> for
> # characters where they are 1-1, and does not have locale-specific
> mappings.)
> [...]
> # <code>; <lower> ; <title> ; <upper> ; (<condition_list> ;)? # <comment>
> [...]
> # The German es-zed is special--the normal mapping is to SS.
> # Note: the titlecase should never occur in practice. It is equal to
> titlecase(uppercase(<es-zed>))
> 
> 00DF; 00DF; 0053 0073; 0053 0053; # LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
> [...]
> 
> Thus, to comply with the standard, "?".upper() --> "SS" is required.

Yes.

Also the Unicode main charts in the annotation for 00DF state:

    uppercase is "SS"

See http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0080.pdf

This note on the character first appeared in Unicode 1.0 (published in
1991) and has been in every revision.

Unicode 1.0, Volume One also lists this in the lower case to upper
case casing tables on page 453.

There is nothing new about this casing requirement.

A further mention occurs in the Unicode 4.0 specifications in Table
4-1 in section 4.2 Case--Normative.  See
http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/ch04.pdf

This contains the warning:

<< Only legacy implementations that cannot handle case mappings that
increase sring lengths should use UnicodeData case mappings alone. The
single-character mappings are insufficient for languages such as
German. >>

So is Python just another shit legacy implementation?

Jim Allan



From braver at pobox.com  Tue Sep  9 12:12:39 2003
From: braver at pobox.com (Alexy Khrabrov)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 09:12:39 -0700
Subject: A couple of OOPython questions
Message-ID: <3915d531.0309090812.6a4db47e@posting.google.com>

Reading python books feels a bit like reading Perl books -- although
OO is there, some fundamental questions are not illuminated, and then
OO comes after scripting or text, as in the Cookbook!  E.g., a = b is
a deep copy.  How do you do shallow copy?  What are the equivalent of
copy constructors?

Here's another OO question for some real-life application, not that
puny regex fun (or was that perl? :)...  I've developed a CORBA server
for structural protein data, and made a simple python client for it
with omniORBpy.  My server wraps a huge DB2 database into a series of
accessors, each returning rows from the corresponding table.  Let's
say I just want to view the rows.  As I came to expect, the thing
(perl or python) will unravel and pretty-print any hierarchy of
dictionaries or lists.  [I can't help it, but perl books are shorter
since hash is a better term than a dictionary!  Just like with graphs,
where node saves you space over vertex.]

OK, now I go to my python prompt and I want to inspect my objects as
returned by the CORBA server.  One of them represents an atom site.  I
merrily type just its name to see the great unknown unwrap before my
eyes.  Here:

>>> a
<MMS.StructConf instance at 0x8cb1b44>

Hmm.  That's not what I hoped for.  Some fragments of code I saw run
through my mind and I type in,

>>> dir(a)
['_NP_RepositoryId', '__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'beg_auth',
'beg_label', 'conf_type', 'details', 'end_auth', 'end_label', 'id']

Good, we're getting somewhere.  I also googled out vars(a), which
seems to be the same as a.__dict__ (are they?...  why is __dict__ not
shown above then?  2.2...)

Printing out gazillion fields by hand for each class is silly, they
only wrap strings and numbers and other objects of that nature.  I am
ready to dive in a recursive descent.  No such luck -- whoever created
CORBA bindings for python didn't make those objects dictionary-like! 
I can't get members by name, although they _are_ in some __dict__,
useless apparently, until I supply __getitem__!

Is there an easy way to write something _once_, general enough, to
print out a hierarchy of nested objects which just don't have
__getitem__, although every field is either a string or a number or
another object?

Cheers, 
Alexy Khrabrov



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Mon Sep  1 12:34:26 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:34:26 +0200
Subject: HELP : class and variables
In-Reply-To: <5c184570.0309010801.2353a3cc@posting.google.com>
References: <5c184570.0309010801.2353a3cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f5372a8$0$16192$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

vincent delft wrote:
> Sorry if my question is stupid.
> I've missed something with classes. 
> Can you explain the following ?
> class test:
>   var1=1
>   var2=2
>   res=var1+var2
> 
> t=test()
> print t.res
> 
>>>3

Until here, t.var1 means test.var1 (class variable)

> t.var1=6

 From here, you created a new instance variable for object t, named 
var1. It hides test.var1.

> print t.res
> 
>>>3

What would you expect ?
1/ assigning to t.var1 does not modify test.var1
2/ modifiying test.var1 would not modify test.res anyway ! Guess why ?


Try this instead :
 >>> class test:
...     def __init__(self):
...         # create instance variables
...         self.var1 = 1
...         self.var2 = 2
...     def res(self):
...         return self.var1 + self.var2
...
 >>> t = test()
 >>> t.res()
3
 >>> t.var1 = 6
 >>> t.res()
8

Bruno




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 20:02:47 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:02:47 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com> <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com> <ebt0nvckrjv0or52pdmi8ghe147006ioi9@4ax.com> <kl31nvk4j0lhsbmeg9pra3c4mh78rrkivp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6bm1nvc7pfkqppndn0lcks0edqdqf02tra@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:26:00 +0100, Tim Rowe
<tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:49:46 +0100, Stephen Horne

>>  while True :
>>    blah; blah; blah; blah
>>    blah; blah; blah; blah
>>  break if condition :
>>    blah; blah; blah; blah
>>    blah; blah; blah; blah
>
>That makes me twitchy: looks like the thin end of a wedge to Perl and
>Ruby's <statement> if <condition> construct.

I don't know Perl that well, and I certainly don't know Ruby. I
certainly wasn't basing this on either of them.

Anyway, you certainly couldn't turn the form above into a <statement>
if <condition> construct.

It is a part of an existing loop construct - *NOT* a statement and
therefore *NOT* a conditional statement. The indentation and the ":"
make it clear that it isn't a statement in its own right. If anything,
it removes the possibility of a future construct like that - consider
the following...


  while True :
    while True :
      inner_loop_stuff ()
    break if ... :
      inner_loop_stuff ()

    break if ...
    #  inner loop ended by 'break if ...' indentation

    outer_loop_stuff ()

If the <statement> if <condition> construct became a reality, both of
those "break if" lines would be legal - but with very different
meanings. The first is a part of the inner loop, and that inner loops
body continues afterwards. The second would be a part of the outer
loop, and its outdent would mark the end the inner loop.

This would be a nightmare for the parser - until it finds the colon or
end-of-line (or semicolon perhaps) it simply wouldn't know which case
it was dealing with.

But if this is bad for the parser, just think what it would do to
users! - forgetting a trailing semicolon shouldn't result in a
statement which is legal yet with a significantly different meaning.
In fact the semicolon on all these things at the moment is IIRC
totally redundant in terms of resolving ambiguity - it is compulsory
for stylistic reasons.

In my mind, "break if" is not the start of a general conditional
statement idea - it is a two-keyword combination in order to avoid
creating a new single keyword such as "until". It may suggest a
"continue if" for reasons of symmetry, but "continue" is IMO useless
anyway so probably not.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From vincent at visualtrans.de  Fri Sep 12 01:22:11 2003
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:22:11 +0200
Subject: ascii codec missing under py2exe
References: <F6a8b.34398$S_.11374@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <bjrl66$tod$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:F6a8b.34398$S_.11374 at fed1read01...
| I'm using the MIMEText module as part of sending email with no problem
until
| I put it through py2exe.  Then I get this error:
|
|         LookupError: unknown encoding: ascii
|
| ... on this line ...
|
|         File "email\Encoders.pyc", line 85, in encode_7or8bit
|
| ... which looks like this ...
|
|         orig.encode('ascii')
|
| My guess is the ascii codec is not getting included in my build.  Can
| someone tell me how to fix this?  I know nothing about how these text
codecs
| work.

Maybe this helps:

(From the py2exe homepage:
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/)
..if your exe-file reports errors like LookupError: no codec search
functions registered: can't find encoding or LookupError: unknown encoding,
you should advise py2exe to include this package with the '--packages
encodings' command line option.

HTH

Vincent Wehren



|
|





From halley at play-bow.org  Sun Sep 21 17:04:41 2003
From: halley at play-bow.org (Bob Halley)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 14:04:41 -0700
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
In-Reply-To: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3ad8xrgye.fsf@woof.play-bow.org>

"Achim Domma" <domma at procoders.net> writes:

> I'm using Python 2.3s timeout sockets and have code like this to read a page
> from web:
> 
> request = ...
> self.page = urllib2.urlopen(request)
> 
> and later:
> 
> try:
>     self.data = self.page.read()
> except socket.error,e: ...
> except socket.timeout: ...
> except timeout: ...

As another poster pointed out, socket.timeout is a subclass of
socket.error.  (This was so you could write code that treated all
socket errors alike if you wanted timeouts but didn't need to deal
with them separately.)

Section 7.4 of the Language Reference says:

	[...] When an exception occurs in the try suite, a search for
	an exception handler is started. This search inspects the
	except clauses in turn until one is found that matches the
	exception. [...]

So, all you need to do is put the socket.timeout except clause before
any socket.error clause:

	try:
	    self.data = self.page.read()
	except socket.timeout: ...
        except socket.error,e: ...

/Bob




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Sep  1 03:57:01 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:57:01 +0200
Subject: How do I prevent master window from being accessed with child
 window present?
References: <4378fa6f.0308291012.f660cdf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <biutm7$ffs$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

Marc wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am doing a gui application where child windows pop up with options
> after the user selects particular buttons from the master window.
> However, the master window is still active underneath the child
> window. If they accidentally press the same button again they can get
> the same copy of two child windows, and that screws up a bunch of the
> database stuff that I am trying to collect.
> 
> I have tried using the 'transient' method, and that prevents the
> master window from being highlighted. But the user can still push
> buttons on the master window if the child window is moved aside.
> 
> How do I disable the master window until the child window is closed?

childWindow.grab_set()

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From rhunter007 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 00:24:21 2003
From: rhunter007 at yahoo.com (Rob Hunter)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:24:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fwd: Python-list digest, Vol 1 #17390 - 13 msgs
In-Reply-To: <6D0AD2F5-E8C1-11D7-973E-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <20030917042421.35821.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com>

> > From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton
> Vredegoor)
> > Subject: Re: Is there "let binding" in
> Python?
> > Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:41:53 +0200
> > Organization: Hobby Computer Club News
> Network
> > To: python-list at python.org
> >


> > What's wrong with dynamic scoping? Anyway,
> Python hasn't corrected
> > this "mistake", 

Yes they have.  Python now has static scoping.  I
think that this shows it:

def test():
    x = 100
    f = lambda arg: arg * x
    def other_func():
        x = 1
        return f(x)
    print other_func()

test()

So what does this print?  Well, if the function f
used names in the environment in which it's
called, then x would be one and so we'd see the
answer as 1*1 = 1. That's dynamic scoping.  With
static scoping, function f's body uses the
environment that existed when it was created. 
Thus, x is bound to 100, and so we get the answer
100.  And 100 is what you actually get in Python.

My example from before was poor.  I was merely
saying the IMO, a downside of mutation/assignment
is that it kind of reintroduces the problems you
get from dynamic scoping.  This is certainly
debatable, but see for example the thread that
was just started on "scoping with lambda in
loops"...yet another person confused by
mutation/assignment.  And, IMO, the problem is
not with the person.


see following code (I vaguely
> remember *something*
> > about this was fixed, and while I don't know
> exactly what it was, I'm
> > reasonably sure it wasn't what you write
> about above, since that still
> > functions the way you think is bad)
> >
> > import sys
> >
> > def test():
> >     L =[]
> >     for i in range(10):
> >         f = lambda : sys.stdout.write("%s"
> %i)
> >         g = lambda i=i :
> sys.stdout.write("%s" %i)
> >         L.append((f,g))
> >     for x,y in L:
> >         x()
> >         y()
> >     print
> >
> > if __name__=='__main__':
> >     test()
> >
> > # output : 90919293949596979899
> >

So I apologize but I'm still very new at python,
so I don't really understand this program, but I
think what you are just showing me is that using
mutation/assignment you effectively get dynamic
scoping.  Which is what I'm saying.  But, I'll
concede that assignment isn't all bad.  Like
whatever you are showing here I'm sure is fine.

So is dynamic scoping bad?  Yes.  Most certainly.
 In the above example it perhaps isn't so clear
whether or not the program should print 1 or 100.
 But consider this (quite realistic, though
simplified) example:  I write a module which
provides a function circle_maker(x,y).  If you
give circle_maker x and y coordinates, it returns
a function which takes a radius, and draws a
circle with that radius at (x,y).

Eg, if I want to draw 3 circles each centered at
(1,2) with radii of 1, 2, and 3, I could write:

c = circle_maker(1,2)
c(1)
c(2)
c(3)

But now assume the defintion of circle_maker is
something like:

def circle_maker(x,y):
  ...
  x = --something complicated--
  ...
  return lambda radius: ... x ...

That is, our return function (which we bound to c
in this example), makes reference to 
the variable x.

But now, if I have dynamic scoping and if I want
to use circle_maker I better make darn sure that
I don't have an x in the environment when I call
it.  Or else that value of x will shadow the
intended value of x I had when I defined it in
circle_maker.

In short, if you have dynamic scoping, and you
use "other people's functions", then you have to
potentially know about all the variable names
they chose so you don't use those variables too. 
This is a nightmare when it comes to libraries.

Rob

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 28 13:13:25 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 18:13:25 +0100
Subject: [joke] Any tool to translate PHP to Python?
References: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com> <3f75f5b8$0$20650$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <vncdncfj0csgdf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87ad8og7ka.fsf@pobox.com>

Bruce Dickey <ceiesa at excite.com> writes:
[...]
> It seems to me that for folks migrating from PHP to Python, a
> translator would be a handy tool. Especially if they have a large site
> to convert. It would be a tool useful to a large number of people.

We look forward to the first release, Bruce. <0.5 wink>


John



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Sep 30 23:45:52 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Oct 2003 03:45:52 GMT
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za> <DIaeb.142010$hE5.4836948@news1.tin.it> <3f794cfe$0$64728@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <bldilg$hng$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:36:48 +0200, Tertius <tcronj at ananzi.co.za> wrote:

>Alex Martelli wrote:
>> tertius wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>Is there a better way to append certain chars in a string with a
>>>backslash that the example below?
>>>
>>>chr = "#$%^&_{}"          # special chars to look out for
<nit1 kind="builtin-shadowing-abuse"/>
>>>str = "123 45^ & 00 0_"   # string to convert
<nit2 kind="builtin-shadowing-abuse"/>
>>>n = ""                    # init new string
>>>for i in str:
>>>     if i in chr:          # if special character in str
>>>         n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
>>>     n+=i
[Note that n+=i comes _after_ n+='\\' -- cf nit3]

>>>print "old:",str
>>>print "new:",n
>> 
>> 
>> If you can afford some a priori preparation, make a dictionary
>> once and for all that maps each character (that isn't to be
>> represented by itself) to the string that represents it.  E.g.,
>> if you inevitably start with a chr string as above, you can
>> make the dictionary as follows:
>> 
>> charmap = {}
>> for c in chr: charmap[c] = c+'\\'
<nit 3>
   for c in chr: charmap[c] = '\\'+c
</nit3>
>> 
>> You can also write out the dict literal directly, and in
>> any case you only need to prepare this charmap once and
>> can then use it to prepare any number of translations.
>> 
>> Once you have this charmap, you can use its get method to
>> get the translations -- and prepare a *LIST OF STRINGS* to
>> be joined up at the end, that's MUCH, *MUCH* faster than
>> a loop using += on a string:
>> 
>> pieces = [charmap.get(c,c) for c in str]
>> 
>> and finally:
>> 
>> n = ''.join(pieces)
>> 
>> 
>> Alex
>> 
>
>*MUCH* nicer :)
>Thanks!

Re nits: Alex must have been doing this while talking on the 'phone and playing bridge
or I think he would have mentioned that using builtin names (e.g., chr & str) for your
variables is a bad idea. I think your comment "append _it_ with a backslash" was misleading,
since the "it" was not the character, but the accumulating output.

If you want to play, you can also define a translation function like the following ;-)

 >>> trans = (lambda f,s: ''.join(map(f,s))).__get__(
 ...             (lambda d,c: d.get(c,c)).__get__(
 ...                 dict([(c,'\\'+c) for c in '#$%^&_{}'])))
 >>> print trans("123 45^ & 00 0_")
 123 45\^ \& 00 0\_
 >>> trans
 <bound method ?.<lambda> of <bound method ?.<lambda> of {'#': '\\#', '%': '\\%', '$': '\\$', '&'
 : '\\&', '{': '\\{', '}': '\\}', '_': '\\_', '^': '\\^'}>>

(I think all the work is done up front ;-)

This form is obviously easy to parameterize as to which characters you want escaped, BTW:

 >>> def maketrans(escaped='#$%^&_{}'):
 ...     return (lambda f,s: ''.join(map(f,s))).__get__(
 ...                 (lambda d,c: d.get(c,c)).__get__(
 ...                     dict([(c,'\\'+c) for c in escaped])))
 ...
 >>> trans = maketrans()
 >>> print trans("123 45^ & 00 0_")
 123 45\^ \& 00 0\_
 >>> trans = maketrans('135&')
 >>> print trans("123 45^ & 00 0_")
 \12\3 4\5^ \& 00 0_

Now Alex can <nit> me back ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Sep  3 08:12:57 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:12:57 -0400
Subject: getopt issues
References: <m3n0dvybyo.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
 <mailman.1061961589.14148.python-list@python.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0308271319080.18558-100000@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
 <mailman.1062019135.12125.python-list@python.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0308281021290.18558-100000@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <JrdV/ks/KDXd089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <Pine.LNX.4.44.0308281021290.18558-100000 at moroni.pp.asu.edu>,
David Bear <iddwb at asu.edu> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Steven Taschuk wrote:
>
>> > specified in options, rather than have it through an exception and return
>> > nothing?
>>
>> I don't think so.  This is an unusual request -- normally it is
>> desirable for a program to insist on correct usage, rather than
>
>good points.  yet, my purpose is to write a filter.  the problem being
>that with different lpr implementations you don't know exactly what
>parameters will be passed since lpr is not really standardize (at least
>thats my understanding).

   Right.  It's what you don't want if you're duplicating
`ls` (for example) because ls recognizes all options no
matter where in the command line they appear.

   It's what you want if you're duplicating the python
interpreter, which has to distinguish between its own
options and the options to send to the program it runs.
getopt treats everything after the first non-leading-'-'
argument as an argument.

   I haven't looked at optparse yet.  I should.

   Command-line parsers aren't too hard to hand-roll.  Main
problems are handling the potential equivalence of things
like "-n5", "-n 5", "-n:5" etc.

        Regards.        Mel.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Sep 21 13:29:33 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:29:33 -0400
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6DDFFD.4988E66A@engcorp.com>

rhmd wrote:
> 
> I use Windows XP and 98.  Have very little experience with C++.  Am
> doing statistical and other simulations that require billions of
> calculations 

Have you considered and investigated Numeric Python or similar
products?  Perhaps your assumption that you have to revert to
hand-crafted C code is premature.

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Sep  9 14:56:56 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 18:56:56 GMT
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
References: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjl7po$j41$0@216.39.172.122>

On 9 Sep 2003 03:59:14 -0700, ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com) wrote:

>I am slightly confused about the way metaclasses work, having read
>"Metaclass Programming In Python, Parts 1 and 2"
>
>I get the fact that the instance of a metaclass is a class, but in
>this case I fail to see why the following does'nt work:
>
>>>> class Meta(type):
>...     def __str__(cls):
>...             print "I am " + repr(cls)
>... 
UIAM, you subclassed type, but you didn't override __new__, so ...
>>>> 
>>>> Class = Meta("Fish", (), {})
became essentially a pass-through call to type, i.e., effectively the same as
     Class = type("Fish",(),{})
and since you passed it an empty dict to make its Class.__dict__ from,

>>>> Class.__str__()
went looking in Class.__dict__ for '__str__' and couldn't find it. So it
went looking for it according to Class.mro(), which led to finding it in
the object base class -- i.e., object.__dict__['__str__'] succeeded. But what it
got was an unbound method, because neither of two things (accessing an ordinary
method as an attribute of an instance object, or accessing a class method as an attribute
of either and instance or its class) was happening to bind to the method. So you got a complaint.
Note that it's complaining about __str__ of object, not __str__ of your class Meta.

>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: descriptor '__str__' of 'object' object needs an argument
>
Note that your def __str__(cls) *does* exist in Meta.__dict__, but that wasn't the
dict used to construct Class.

>Whereas this does:
>
>>>> class Simple(object):
>...     def __str__(self):
>...             return "I am " + repr(self)
>...
In this case you are not overriding __new__ either, but the search for __new__ is finding
object.__new__, and that is making the object instance for you, of subtype Simple.

>>>> obj = Simple()
Actually, I think this amounts to Simple.__call__(), which must call cls.__new__() and go
down the mro chain to find object.__new__ and call it with cls (which would be Simple).

>>>> obj.__str__()
Looking for __str__ in this case is looking in type(obj).__dict__ first and finding it right there.
You are triggering it via attribute access, which dynamically creates the bound method that supplies
the self arg. Alternatively, type(obj).__str__ should be the unbound method,  to which you could pass
obj, and type(obj).__dict__['__str__'] should be the plain function that becomes a method by the
dynamic magic. It can be called with obj as arg like the unbound method.

>I am <__main__.Simple object at 0x402f676c>
>
>The tutorial does mention this (slightly), but doesn't make it clear
>why this is happening. I am probably missing something obvious though!
>
>Thanks for the help,
>
To get the effect you originally wanted, one way could be:

 >>> class Meta(type):
 ...     def __str__(cls): return 'I am '+ repr(cls)
 ...     __str__ = classmethod(__str__)
 ...     def __new__(cls, name): return type.__new__(cls, name, (),cls.__dict__.copy())
 ...
 >>> Class = Meta('Fish')
 >>> Class
 <class '__main__.Fish'>
 >>> Class.__str__()
 "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"

Interestingly,

 >>> str(Class)
 "I am <class '__main__.Meta'>"

apparently the str builtin doing str(x) goes after type(x).__str__, e.g.,

 >>> Class.__str__
 <bound method Meta.__str__ of <class '__main__.Fish'>>
 >>> Class.__str__()
 "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"

vs

 >>> type(Class).__str__
 <bound method type.__str__ of <class '__main__.Meta'>>
 >>> type(Class).__str__()
 "I am <class '__main__.Meta'>"


The above is my current view of how things work. I think/hope it's pretty close, but I am not
speaking from a code walk here, so there may be some details awry. Corrections welcome.

BTW, the __metaclass__ class variable and how that works is something that belongs in
a discussion of Python metaclass programming, but someone else can fill that in ;-)

HTH and does not mislead.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From roberto at dealmeida.net  Sun Sep 28 08:48:17 2003
From: roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De Almeida)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 05:48:17 -0700
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <10c662fe.0309270545.1fd5d839@posting.google.com> <7tidnd_LS5ElWOiiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <combnv8hpr0agl0ij5ihrdvk3p4b10vs6e@4ax.com> <vnbr4m26qi8q1b@news.supernews.com> <qvrbnvgg5ji3sih8svd8i60dvhfbrs9nmi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <10c662fe.0309280448.22cfc49@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in message news:<qvrbnvgg5ji3sih8svd8i60dvhfbrs9nmi at 4ax.com>...
> All Roberto needs to do is make his class a subclass of object and it
> will do exactly what he needs - somebody did think about it and that
> PEP has apparently already been submitted and implemented a long time
> ago.

Yes, I think this is the best thing to do. It removes the (apparent or
not) inconsistency, and does what I would expect from the principle of
least surprise. The other solutions, like the Proxy class and Terry's
suggestion of adding a comma to uni-dimensional slices (c[:-1,]) are
interesting, but they are not consistent with Numeric slices. I'll
keep them in mind, though.

Thanks,

Roberto



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Tue Sep  2 18:07:39 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:07:39 -0700
Subject: Python REST framework?
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj34bb$e5gpd$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jeremy Jones wrote:

> 
> Does anyone know if there exists a Python REST (web services)
> framework?  I've googled and come up short.  I don't think it
> should be that hard to do if one doesn't exist (famous last
> words).  I guess one could subclass BaseHTTPServer and have
> specified things to do depending on the path and the method?

Not a framework, but may be of help ...

Doing REST on top of Python Web application servers like Quixote
and Twisted seems quite simple.  Here is a link that might help:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/rest_howto.html

And, here are several documents explaining how to add complex
logic to a REST application using a finite state machine (FSM)
model:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/fsm_howto.html
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/fsmGenerate_howto.html

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From ed at digitallumber.net  Tue Sep  2 10:41:57 2003
From: ed at digitallumber.net (Ed Stoner)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 07:41:57 -0700
Subject: Bayesian kids content filtering in Python?
References: <20030828161409.V40715@onyx.ispol.com> <AVA3b.9197$Pn6.1974@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7e7439f1.0309020641.28ace8fc@posting.google.com>

I've been looking at this sort of thing for a while now.  I initially
tried what you did about a year and a half ago and ran into some
problems.  I ended up writing my own http proxy, html parser, and
bayes filtering code.  It is being used now by Woodland Hills School
District in Pittsburgh, PA.  The school has 2300 computers, 6000
students, and 3 T1 lines to the Internet.  Most of the problems I ran
into were scalability, but there also were a fair amount of problems
dealing with broken http servers (sending only \r or \n, or nothing,
or not sending all of the headers, or sending wrong headers, etc.) and
goofy problems with all different versions of IE.  I think spambayes
would probably be better than the bayes filter I wrote, and do plan in
the future to try it (it has improved significantly over the last year
and a half).  I have gotten very good sucess though with what I have. 
It is significantly better than the proprietary (and expensive)
filters that are out there on all counts (less false positives, much
less false negatives, faster, etc.)  The code and docs (and some
marketing :-) are at http://www.digitallumber.com/willow.  I'd
appreciate some feedback from experienced python developers.

"Paul Paterson" <paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message news:<AVA3b.9197$Pn6.1974 at twister.austin.rr.com>...
> "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <grisha at ispol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030828161409.V40715 at onyx.ispol.com...
> >
> > I've been snooping around the web for open source kids filtering software.
> > Something that runs as an http proxy on my home firewall and blocks
> > certain pages based on content.
> >
> > It occured to me that this might be an interesting project to be done in
> > Python, probably using the same training and scoring mechanism that
> > spambayes uses.
> >
> > Anyway - I wonder if anyone has already tried something like this?
> 
> As Rene points out in his response,after some great advice and discussion
> from Skip I gave this a try. It works very well. I added a module to a proxy
> server (http://theory.stanford.edu/~amitp/proxy.html) and then 'trained'
> Spambayes on top of it by going to sites that I wanted to allow (news sites)
> and then ones I wanted to block (sports sites - just to test!). After a
> relatively short training period (20-40 sites/pages) it started to pick up
> the characteristics of positive and negative sites. It was then easy to get
> it to block the negative sites. Although there were still quite a few false
> positives I imagine that with a wider training suite it would have been very
> accurate (based on the reported accuracy of Spambayes).
> 
> Unfortunately, I didn't carry the work through much beyond the initial proof
> of concept but I have copied the code I ended up with below. It certainly
> seems to work and has application both for parental filtering and other
> kinds of content management.
> 
> Paul
> 
>



From palindrome12345 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 12 13:25:19 2003
From: palindrome12345 at hotmail.com (Preston H)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 10:25:19 -0700
Subject: Embeddor Woes...
References: <ab261cb1.0309101658.5357ed1a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063286417.20657.python-list@python.org> <3f618ea9$1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <ab261cb1.0309120925.642c803e@posting.google.com>

That did it...  I wonder why PyRun_SimpleFile or PyRun_File won't
work?  Do I have to recompile the python source under MSVC++.NET?

"Kerim" <my at mail.ru> wrote in message news:<3f618ea9$1 at shknews01>...
> PyRun_SimpleFile doesn't work for me too.
> 
> As a workaround I suggest to replace it with:
> PyRun_SimpleString("execfile('test.py')");
> 
> Kerim
> 
> "Roel Vanhout" <roel at riks.nl> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1063286417.20657.python-list at python.org...
> > Have you tried to use embedding.cpp from the boost.python examples? It
> > will show if your configuration is working OK; if it is, the problem is
> > obviously in your program. At first sight I'd say that your test.py
> > can't be found - did you set the right working directories?
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > roel
> >
> >
> > Preston H wrote:
> >
> > > Hello, someone may have tackled this problem before but I have
> > > searched the google newsgroups up and down and I can't find anything
> > > on this.  I am trying to write an embedded python program in C++ that
> > > will go out and execute python language in a script.
> > >
> > > I am using Visual C++ .NET, and I do have Multithreaded DLL(/MD)
> > > turned on for the Runtime Library, I have the Python 2.2 installed and
> > > their include and libs directories are set.  Also, I have Visual C++
> > > .NET set to release version, mainly because I cannot find
> > > python22_d.dll anywhere.
> > >
> > > This is the error that I get when I successfully compile this program
> > > and try to run it at a dos prompt...
> > >
> > > The instruction at "0x77f85c41" referenced memory at "0x00000010".
> > > The memory could not be "written".
> > >
> > > This is the source code that I am trying to test...
> > >
> > > #include "python.h"
> > > #include <stdio.h>
> > >
> > > int main(int argc, char* argv[])
> > > {
> > > char *filename = "test.py";
> > >
> > > FILE *OurFile = fopen(filename, "r+");
> > >
> > > Py_Initialize();
> > >
> > > PyRun_SimpleFile(OurFile, "test.py");
> > >
> > > Py_Finalize();
> > >
> > > return 0;
> > > }
> > >
> > > Like I said earlier, the program compiles without any hitches.  Any
> > > help on this is appreciated very much!
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Roel Vanhout - Programmer/Systems Administrator
> > RIKS BV
> > Papenstraat 8 - 6211 LG Maastricht
> > Tel +31 (0)43 388 3708 - Fax +31 (0)43 325 3155
> >
> >



From roy at panix.com  Mon Sep 29 09:41:20 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:41:20 -0400
Subject: Checking for invalid keyword arguments?
References: <roy-B6EED5.17061128092003@reader2.panix.com> <3F782F6D.29E0CF5F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <roy-7B587B.09412029092003@reader2.panix.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> By the way, you didn't explain why you don't want to get passed arguments
> you didn't expect.  Can't you simply ignore them?

I'm taking some early prototype code and changing the API around a bit 
as the design evolved.  I thought I had changed everything, but had a 
bug due to having missed a change in one place.  I was calling a routine 
using the old API and the now incorrect argument was just being silently 
ignored.

Upon further consideration (i.e. having several people point out the 
obvious to me!), I've come to realize that I don't really need the 
kwArgs mechanism at all.  The simplier default mechanism does exactly 
what I want!  Not clear what got me thinking I needed something more 
complicated in the first place.

Thanks for the help.



From follower at iname.com  Mon Sep 15 05:33:47 2003
From: follower at iname.com (Follower)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 02:33:47 -0700
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
References: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <d2f38965.0309150133.4aef2253@posting.google.com>

> Of course, now that I think about it, I could have also written:
>         self.assertEqual (foo.has_key ('bar')), 0)

ObMinimalism attempt:

      self.failIf(foo.has_key('bar'))



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Tue Sep  9 19:11:09 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:11:09 +0200
Subject: virtual inner classes in python?
In-Reply-To: <opru86ohov5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>
References: <opru86ohov5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>
Message-ID: <3f5e5b7f$0$27047$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

kasper graversen wrote:
> hello there.
> 
> I've just started learning python. I see methods are declared virtual by 
> default as in Java. 
No. Methods are virtual. period. No 'declared' and no 'default'.

> Nice. However, the inner class construct seems to be 
> even weaker as that of Java. Not nice! :-( Why are inner classes not 
> virtual?
They are.

> will they be in a near future?
They already are.

> What other language can you 
> recomend, if python cannot provide what I need?

<troll>
Assembly ?-)
</troll>

> My problem is that in the __init__ below, I cannot instantiate "Foo" but 
> have to explicate "Test.foo".. 

Foo is not defined in the global namespace, so you must tell in which 
namespace it is to be found.

> secondly, I want to instantiate the "Foo" 
> in test2 rather than in tester in the current example..

Replace 'lala = Test.Foo()' with 'lala = self.Foo()'.

How can you hope Python to instanciate Test2.Foo when you tell it very 
explicitely to instanciate Test.Foo ?-)

> class Test:
>    def __init__(self):
>        lala = Test.Foo()
>        lala.show()

(I assume that indention went wrong when copying, and that the following 
  line should be at the same level that the __init__().)

>        class Foo:
>        def show(self):
>            print "Test.foo.show"
> 
> 
> class Test2(Test):
>    class Foo:
>        def show(self):
>            print "Test2.foo.show"
> 
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    start = Test2()
> 
> 

Try this instead :

class Test:
     def __init__(self):
         f = self.Foo()
         f.show()

     class Foo:
         def show(self):
             print 'Test.Foo'

class Test2(Test):
     class Foo:
         def show(self):
             print 'Test2.Foo'


t = Test()
t = Test2()


HTH
Bruno




From alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it  Sat Sep 27 09:35:00 2003
From: alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it (Alberto Mantovani)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:35:00 GMT
Subject: pythonwin from dos
References: <3f731176.33482654@powernews.libero.it> <vn66jje743n725@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f7591fe.1890578@powernews.libero.it>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:40:10 -0400, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:



>
>"Alberto Mantovani" <alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it> wrote in
>message news:3f731176.33482654 at powernews.libero.it...
>> hi,
>> how is it possible to run a python script  in the pythonwin
>> environment from dos command line?
>> If I use the command "/run scriptname.py" and the pythonwin is already
>> opened I get error, so someone can help me?
>
>Why do you want to run it in Pythonwin? To run a script from
>one of the command lines, the correct command is:
>
>    python scriptname.py parameters....

I know this, but my problem is to run the script in pythonwin from dos
when pythonwin is already opened. 



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Sep 20 16:57:26 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 21:57:26 +0100
Subject: numarray.linear_algebra.eigenvectors bug ?
References: <37cbc1de.0309191328.1ff3e822@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87ad8zp495.fsf@pobox.com>

eugene_druker at yahoo.com (Eugene Druker) writes:

> I need eigen values and vectors for symmetric matrices (like VCV). 
> Solving with numarray and testing the results, I've got 
> strange results - input and output matrices of some sizes are 
[...]

You'll probably be much better off posting this to whichever mailing
list the numarray people use.  Google for it.  HTH


John



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Mon Sep  8 22:16:00 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:16:00 -0400
Subject: What is marketing?
In-Reply-To: <4RNX/kKkXgeM092yn@gnosis.cx>; from mertz@gnosis.cx on Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:11:52PM -0400
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062983352.15417.python-list@python.org> <qnY6b.42704$R32.1360114@news2.tin.it> <eIMX/kKkXswV092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1063044013.17856.python-list@python.org> <Uc47b.46580$R32.1483053@news2.tin.it> <KGNX/kKkX4cC092yn@gnosis.cx> <4RNX/kKkXgeM092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <20030908221600.A7418@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:11:52PM -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> |> The neutral word that Alex is looking for is 'promotion', which has a
> |> subtle but important difference from the dirty word.
> 
> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote previously:
> |Nope -- it's "marketing" as defined in textbooks of economics
> 
> Ahh... that begs the question[*].
> [*] Has anyone else noticed how horribly misused this phrase has
> become...
Amen! Everyone please read this good explanation and then stop using
the phrase.
http://gncurtis.home.texas.net/begquest.html

Apparently people have noticed becuase googling for
'begs the question definition' turns up a lot of rants.

> IOW, I'm more interested in what Thorstein
> Veblen would say than in what Ludwig von Mises would say :-).
Hmm, 

  Veblen was an idiot and Mises was rational.

Err, thats not it, 

  Veblen thought everyone was an idiot and Mises thought everyone 
  was rational.  

I always get that mixed up.

-jackdied




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Sep  2 09:41:14 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:41:14 -0500 
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623305FA3E08@mail.hebmex.com>

[Graham Fawcett]
>Then you can access the attribute as `someobj.thing`.
>
>Given that you hate getters, and that you didn't title your 
>message, "Encapsulation the Python Way", accessing instance 
>attributes directly is fair game.  ;-)
  

[Daniel Klein]
> Yes, I could do this, but a method provides better control over the
> state.

In that case you should use a Property, which is accessed
as an ordinary attribute, but it has (up to) three hidden
methods bound to it, a getter, a setter and a deletter;
it seems to be just what the doc ordered, for you that is.

-gustavo


Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From jacobsmail at gmx.net  Mon Sep 15 17:02:37 2003
From: jacobsmail at gmx.net (Jacob H)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 14:02:37 -0700
Subject: Ways to improve this clock algorithm?
Message-ID: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

I'm close to being a novice programmer and I never was good at math.
So I'm curious to know ways in which this following code can be made
more efficient, more elegant. The code just calculates and displays
elapsed wall clock seconds since initialization.

class ExampleTimer:
    def __init__(self):
        self.start = time.clock()

    def run(self):
        while 1:
            now = time.clock()
            allseconds = int(now) = int(self.start)
            seconds = 0
            minutes = 0
            hours = 0
            for n in range(1, (allseconds + 1)):
                seconds += 1
                if n % 60 == 0:
                    minutes += 1
                    seconds = 0
                if n % 3600 == 0:
                    hours += 1
                    minutes = 0
            print "%s hrs %s min %s sec" % (hours, minutes, seconds)
            time.sleep(1)
        
app = ExampleTimer()
app.run()  

I am grateful for any suggestions and advice. :)

Jake



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Sep  1 05:30:12 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:30:12 +0200
Subject: Aspect oriented Everything?
References: <32cc321c.0308221316.2f5793ac@posting.google.com> <3F52BB3C.70406@managesoft.com>
Message-ID: <biv3j9$h3c$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Clifford Heath <cjh_nospam at managesoft.com> wrote:

<snip>

>Proprietry standards for basic technologies are doomed.

Right. However the previous long piece of text lead me to read this
the exact opposite way of what is written above at first. Is this a
perceptual illusion trick or is it my bad? Never mind, all's well that
ends well :-)

Anton



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 12:34:56 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:34:56 GMT
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com> <4bh3nv0esljf8pkegog0lc4lmg87siv1oc@4ax.com> <CxWcb.172171$R32.5498673@news2.tin.it> <bl1dra$j30@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Q_idb.179403$R32.5743467@news2.tin.it>

Richard Brodie wrote:

> 
> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
> news:CxWcb.172171$R32.5498673 at news2.tin.it...
> 
>> I'm not sure how you'd compute log on integer numbers.  Anyway,
>> if you're in a hurry to know the number of digits in 2**64 -- I
>> see math.log(x,10) taking about 4 usec per loop, len(str(x)) about
>> 6.3, in each case with x=2*64 and measuring with timeit.py
>> (elapsed time, as I'm measuring on Linux).
> 
> And if you're really in a hurry 64 * log10(2) is good too ;)

Yep, but it doesn't generalize to an 'x' computed elsewhere,
when all you know is that it's some big integer and need to
know how many digits its decimal representation will take.


Alex




From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 23 21:38:28 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:38:28 GMT
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <oA6cb.1241$RW4.485@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Tina Li:
> I've been struggling with a regular expression for parsing XML files,
> which keeps giving the run time error "maximum recursion limit
> exceeded".
   [ ... in reply to David Eppstein ...]
> I'd like to know what caused theover-limit as well.

When matching a pattern against a string, an ambiguity may arise.
For example the pattern "AX|AY" when matched against text
which starts with "A" can match the "A" in "AX" or the "A" in
"AY".  There are different ways to resolve this ambiguity.

The standard way is to use push the current state on the stack
and try the first possible path.  Every ambiguity gets its own
push on the stack.  If that path fails, the system backtracks by
popping the state off the stack and trying the next possibility.

Every ambiguity point causes a stack push.  (Well, not quite.
It's possible to collapse some of the ambiguity in some cases.
For example, Python's sre regular expression system recognizes
the common prefix and changes the above pattern into
"A|[XY]".)

In your pattern you used .*? frequently.  The thing about . is that
it can match the "<" character, so every time you have a .*?<
you have an ambiguity.  Since you use non-greedy .*?, it takes
the < path first, and pushes the generic capture on the stack.

What I can't figure out though is why you have any stack
problems.  All your ambiguities are easy to figure out, so you
have at most one stack term for each .*?.

I then tried to reproduce it, and wasn't able to do so.  Here's
my code.  (I needed to use re.DOTALL because you want
the .*? to capture the newline as well.)

>>> import re
>>> s="""<code>1cg2</code>
... <chain>a</chain>
... <settings>abcde</settings>
... <scoreInfo>12345</scoreInfo>
... <targetSeq name="1onc">blah
... </targetSeq>
... <alignment size="335">
... <target>WLTFQKKHITNTRDVDCDNIMS</target>
... <align> :| ..| :    .  |  .                         |.  .  :</align>
... <template>QKRDNVLFQAATDEQPAVIKTLEKL</template>
... <anotherTag>foobarfoobar</anotherTag>
... <yetAnotherTag>barfoobarfoo</yetAnotherTag>
... """
>>> pattern = (r'<code>(?P<c>.*?)</code>.*?'
...     r'<targetSeq name="(?P<tn>.*?)">.*?'
...     r'<target>(?P<t>.*?)</target>.*?'
...     r'<align>(?P<a>.*?)</align>.*?'
...     r'<template>(?P<temp>.*?)</template>.*?'
...     r'<anotherTag>(?P<at>.*?)</anotherTag>.*?'
...     r'<yetAnotherTag>(?P<yat>.*?)</yetAnotherTag>')
>>> pat = re.compile(pattern, re.DOTALL)
>>> m = pat.search(s)
>>> for k, v in m.groupdict().items():
...  print k, "=", repr(v)
...
a = ' :| ..| :    .  |  .                         |.  .  :'
c = '1cg2'
temp = 'QKRDNVLFQAATDEQPAVIKTLEKL'
yat = 'barfoobarfoo'
tn = '1onc'
t = 'WLTFQKKHITNTRDVDCDNIMS'
at = 'foobarfoobar'
>>>

In any case, as others pointed out, if it's XML you should parse
it as XML.  You don't actually have XML (it needs to be
single rooted and the <alignment size="335"> has no close tag)
so assuming it was fixed, here's some code which uses the
standard XML parsing libraries in Python


>>> s="""<record>
... <code>1cg2</code>
... <chain>a</chain>
... <settings>abcde</settings>
... <scoreInfo>12345</scoreInfo>
... <targetSeq name="1onc">blah
... </targetSeq>
... <alignment size="335"/>
... <target>WLTFQKKHITNTRDVDCDNIMS</target>
... <align> :| ..| :    .  |  .                         |.  .  :</align>
... <template>QKRDNVLFQAATDEQPAVIKTLEKL</template>
... <anotherTag>foobarfoobar</anotherTag>
... <yetAnotherTag>barfoobarfoo</yetAnotherTag>
... </record>
... """
>>> from xml.sax import handler
>>> import xml.sax
>>> class GetFields(handler.ContentHandler):
...    def startDocument(self):
...       self.fields = {}
...       self.save_text = 0
...       self.text = None
...    def startElement(self, name, attrs):
...       if name == "record":
...          return
...       if name == "targetSeq":
...          self.fields["targetSeqName"] = attrs["name"]
...       elif name == "alignment":
...          self.fields["alignmentSize"] = attrs["size"]
...       self.save_text = 1
...       self.text = ""
...    def characters(self, text):
...       if self.save_text:
...          self.text += text
...    def endElement(self, name):
...       if name == "record":
...          return
...       self.fields[name] = self.text
...       self.text = None
...       self.save_text = 0
...
>>> gf = GetFields()
>>> xml.sax.parseString(s, gf)
>>> gf
>>> for k, v in gf.fields.items():
...  print k, "=", repr(v)
...
code = u'1cg2'
yetAnotherTag = u'barfoobarfoo'
target = u'WLTFQKKHITNTRDVDCDNIMS'
chain = u'a'
scoreInfo = u'12345'
align = u' :| ..| :    .  |  .                         |.  .  :'
settings = u'abcde'
anotherTag = u'foobarfoobar'
template = u'QKRDNVLFQAATDEQPAVIKTLEKL'
alignmentSize = u'335'
targetSeq = u'blah\n'
targetSeqName = u'1onc'
alignment = ''
>>>

Another approach is to turn the XML into a DOM but I
have much less experience with that.  (I get confused with
the DOM API every time I try, and I've never needed
to get that far with it.)

> The file format is straighforward. Here is a sample:
>
> <code>1cg2</code>
> <chain>a</chain>

Hmmm...  Looks like you're doing sequence alignments against
PDB structures.  Do you know about biopython.org?

> So my question is: what is the bottleneck in this pattern? Could someone
> more experienced in REs give some hints here?

You're going to have to post your reproducible for me to
help any further than this.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Sep 22 08:21:52 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:21:52 GMT
Subject: Where to publish my code
References: <1f0bdf30.0309212039.16c9bef0@posting.google.com> <87r829t75e.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <APBbb.116957$bo1.12014@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

[Erik Lechak]
> 2) Sourceforge
> ...

[John J. Lee]
> Just ignore their file release system (which is apparently going away
> soon anyway).  That's what I do -- treat it as free web space.  All
> you need is scp and ssh.

   After a couple of months of doing this I received a request to move the
files from the web space to the release system. May depend on how often your
files are downloaded.

   Neil





From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Tue Sep 16 14:58:34 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:58:34 -0500
Subject: why pass statement?
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624A64@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: M-a-S [mailto:NO-MAIL at hotmail.com] 
> 
> Why is there the pass statement? I think, the expression 
> statement would be enough:
> 
> class C:
>     None
> 
> while True:
>     None

Sure, but None doesn't seem to be the right value:

 class C:
    42

 while 1:
    42

-- bjorn




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep  4 12:55:27 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:55:27 -0400
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <VUidncLV5oQd88qiU-KYvw@comcast.com>

"Stephan Diehl" <stephan.diehl at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:bj7ots$48j$06$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Once in a while, I get bitten by the fact, that mutating list
methods such
> as 'append' or 'extend' return None instead of the (mutated) list
itself.
> Is there a compelling reason for that? I googled around, but didn't
find
> anything about this.

Some people, including GvR, think in-place mutators should not return
anything to distinguish them from methods which return a new object
and leave original untouched.  One argument, I presume based on some
experience, is that if both types of method look the same, people will
forget difference, leading to obscure bugs.  Others, confident in
their ability to remember and not make mistakes, want mutated object
returned so they chain methods togethers.  While Python is generally a
consenting-adults language, this is one place where Guido opted for
the supposedly 'safer' choice.

'Returners' could wrap no-return mutators with functions or
derived-class methods that do return the object, but I have never seen
anyone post a complete module that does so for, say, all list
mutators.

Terry J. Reedy





From pweldon at mindspring.com  Sun Sep 21 17:15:09 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:15:09 GMT
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <mailman.1064166807.8722.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xxobb.50052$Aq2.31203@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Yes, I tend to discount your advice because it may be that you aren't
considering the messages generated by Worm.Automat.AHB are a very restricted
subset of spam, the legitimate 'undeliverable e-mail' messages are closely
related, and the 'undelivered e-mail' messages caused by Worm.Automat.AHB
generated e-mail with the target e-mail address in the FROM line are also
closely related.  The current need is a quick way to counter the 'spam'
effects of Worm.Automat.AHB, not correctly categorizing Nigerian fund
transfer and Viagra spam sets.

To further explain, the bogus 'undeliverable e-mail' type messages are
permutating and the database supplying the input to the worm's generator is
growing.  There are at least two classes of bogus 'undeliverable mail';

1.  e-mail generated by the worm
2.  real 'undeliverable e-mail' messages that are the results of the worm
using your e-mail address as the sender on bogus 'undeliverable e-mail'
which then generates a legitimate but unwanted and useless 'undeliverable
e-mail' message.

Now, if you have the time to supply your arguments rather than cv, I'll be
happy to learn.

And, to quote the Inboxer help file,

"The text box in the Create Filters area indicates the number of messages
that were processed to build the filters. Generally, the higher the number,
the more accurate the filters will become."

So far the scoring Inboxer developed on the basis of the ~1500 bad and 264
good examples results in no false negatives or false positives, including
correctly classifing a dozen completely legitimate 'undelivered e-mail'
messages in a set of ~ 400 new messages.  The -1500 bad e-mail messages have
a date spread of 18SEP03 though 20SEP03 while the 265 good e-mail messages
have a date spread of 1AUG03 through 20SEP03.  Both sets were sent to my ISP
mailbox.

I will try dividing the two sets of messages into smaller sets and try the
results of your suggestion on new e-mails as they collect.  By the way, my
current ratio of Worm.Automat.AHB instigated messages to legitimate e-mail
(which for my purposes includes traditional spam) is far greater than
1500:265; it's more like 1500:50.

And I guess I should download from spambayes and donate to PSF since my
daughter is using Python in her physics classes at Carnegie-Mellon.
Concidently, I just happened to be looking at my loose-leafed copy of
Feynman's Lectures on Physics with a reference manual in the back for
FORTRAN IV I had to use for physics classes.



Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064166807.8722.python-list at python.org...
> [Phil Weldon]
> > I don't think 'fewer' examples of bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail'
> > messages will be 'better' because of the permutating and morphing
> > nature of this worm generated message.  'Fewer' examples would result
> > in ALL 'Undeliverable e-mail' message catagorized as objectionable
> > because the number valid messages of this type is so small in the
> > save e-mail that most users have.
>
> Which is exactly why training on "too many" such unwanted messages will
make
> it very difficult for the handful of legitimate messages of that sort to
> score as ham.  I started the spambayes project, and did most of the
research
> for, and coding of, its tokenizer and classifier, but you're certainly
free
> to ignore my ill-informed advice <wink>
>
.
.
.
> > Now, if I can just find a way to charge the cost to Earthlink because
> > of their failure to perform their implicit contract to provide
> > reliable e-mail service.
>
> I suspect they already thought of that trick <wink> -- a good start would
be
> to read your service contract with them.
>
>





From stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net  Wed Sep 17 19:44:12 2003
From: stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:44:12 -0500
Subject: Simple python cgi question
In-Reply-To: <87znh3411g.fsf@flibuste.net>
References: <MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net> <87llsnmrw4.fsf@flibuste.net> <wG6dneAarP2YP_WiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net> <87znh3411g.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <3sScnYrZ8I14cvWiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>

I don't want report lab since I'll be using lilypond to generate the 
pdfs (I mentioned that I'd be calling the pdf generating program from 
python).

What I needed to know was how to upload a file, really. I thought it 
might be trivial, but maybe not so ...

I'll have to give the mod_python docs some study.

-- Stephen

Wilk wrote:
> Stephen Boulet <stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net> writes:
> 
> 
>>Wilk wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Boulet <stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>First of all, I'm not sure that the easiest way to do this is with
>>>>python ...
>>>>
>>>>I'd like to set up a web page that would accept a text file, process
>>>>it with a local program, and then make available generated pdf and
>>>>postscript files for downloading.
>>>>
>>>>I'd like to limit the size of the file to be uploaded.
>>>>
>>>>I have apache2 already up. Is this a job for (mod_)python?
>>>
>>>Yes why not ?
>>
>>I was hoping for a bit more detail ...
>>
> 
> 
> If you will do it in cgi, look at the cgi module, and for the pdf look
> at http://www.reportlab.com 
> 
> After, try to be more precise in your question if you want more
> details...
> 
> bye
> 




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Sep 18 20:35:43 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:35:43 -0500
Subject: file object: seek and close?
In-Reply-To: <3F69DA35.8070207@bu.edu>
References: <3F69DA35.8070207@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <20030919003543.GC9792@unpythonic.net>

Well, I didn't have any problems running a similar program.

Here's the program I wrote:
f = open("/tmp/example", "w")
f.write("a\nb\nc\n")
f.close()

f = open("/tmp/example", "r")

for line in f: print line.strip(),
print
f.seek(0)
for lines in f: print line.strip(),

And here's the output:
a b c
a b c




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 16:30:03 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:30:03 +0100
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net> <mailman.1064580340.26537.python-list@python.org> <vijanv0lloncphml3mcjohgjukkv1eea4p@4ax.com> <bl4gtc$lmn$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <ffsbnv8bb02kuit3q25rag1sdqhse2q13q@4ax.com>

On 27 Sep 2003 17:20:44 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:47:47 +0100, Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:44:30 +0200, Ronald Oussoren
>><oussoren at cistron.nl> wrote:
>>
>>>The fun you can have on windows, I've  
>>>managed to create files that cannot be removed :-)
>>
>>I've had that one simply by saving a web page in IE. Seriously
>>annoying.
>>
>Do you mean windows exploder will not even delete it with right-click, delete?
>Or doesn't it show up at all? (how do you know it exists? dos dir?)

There was no way I could find to delete it - not even writing a C++
program directly calling the DeleteFile API call.

I don't remember exact details - not even for sure whether it was
Win98 or Win2000 (it was too long ago for WinXP). I do remember that
the non-deletable file was in a deeply nested set of pointless folders
created by saving that web site.

Basically, it ended up sitting on my machine annoying me for ages -
I'm not sure if a new machine or a reinstall put an end to it (it was
my work machine, which tends to get fewer reinstalls).


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From achrist at easystreet.com  Wed Sep 10 10:37:47 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:37:47 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org> <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com> <3f5dec0d@news.comindico.com.au> <3F5E053D.743DA13A@easystreet.com> <87k78gbxc3.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F373B.886D62FD@easystreet.com>

"John J. Lee" wrote:
> 
> achrist at easystreet.com writes:
> > Tom Lee wrote:
> > > JEdit is fantastic.
> [...]
> > a bad crash -- I don't recall exactly what -- maybe a BSOD or a
> > JVM crash.  That's not the kind of thing I enjoy, so I haven't
> > used it since.
> 
> What platform was that (JVM, OS)?
> 

It was WinNT SP6 with java sdk 1.4101. I figured that I had given
jEdit and the JVM a fairly demanding test -- I don't have much idea
how you could write an app in any language that could manage resources
like memory without leaking or fragmenting at least a little once in a
while, and after a run of a few weeks, something demised.  

It didn't really bother me much, but if it happened again, that would
have bothered me.  As this thread has shown, there are plenty of
other options for python coders, so I moved on to try another.  I see
that there is a bug-fix pre-release of jEdit now out.  Maybe I'll 
give that a try.


Al



From cfox at cfconsulting.ca  Sun Sep 21 17:08:04 2003
From: cfox at cfconsulting.ca (Colin Fox)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:08:04 GMT
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de> <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122> <bkim08$f8i$1@news.hccnet.nl> <pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000@hotmail.com> <bkkrau$2uaqf$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.21.21.08.04.529981@cfconsulting.ca>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:40:30 +0200, Ulrich Petri wrote:

> "jblazi" <jblazi at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000 at hotmail.com...
>> I shall have a computer science class this year and I decided to use
>> Python. It is my favourite language and I have used it for many years. Now
>> I thought, one of our first "real" programs, in our pre-graphical and
>> pre-class state, would be to write simple program that works like this:
>>
>> One of the pupils enters a word. It should be a valid German word
>> consisting of five letters, for example 'abcde' (which is not a German
>> word by the way).
>>
>> The the other player may enter a guess which must be a five letter word as
>> well, for example 'xbxxx'. Then the system answers with the string '-*---'
>> as the 'b' in 'xbxxx' was correct and at the right place as well.
>>
>> Had the second player entered 'xxxbx', the system had responded with
>> '---.-', as the 'b' is correct but not correctly positioned.
>>
>> The second player must find out the original word.
>>
> 
> Hm sth. like this?
> 
> -----code------
> def mastermind(word, guess):
>     if len(word) != len(guess):
>         return "Error"
>     ret = ["-"]*len(word)
>     counter = 0
>     for lw, lg in zip(word, guess):
>         if lw == lg:
>             ret[counter] = "x"
>         else:
>             if lg in word:
>                 ret[counter] = "."
>         counter += 1
>     return "".join(ret)
> 
>>>> mastermind('haus', 'hasu')
> 'xx..'
>>>> mastermind("jaguar", "januar")
> 'xx-xxx'
> -----code-----

Here's an alternative. I took out the 'if lg in word' logic,
since that doesn't take into account duplicates and therefore
would be misleading (ie 'jaguar','jaaaaa' would return 'x.....',
but there aren't 5 a's in the word).

#!/usr/bin/env python
import string
                                                                                
def wordcheck(word, guess):
    outstr = []
    if len(word) != len(guess):
        raise "Wrong number of letters in guess."
                                                                                
    for x in range(len(word)):
        outstr.append( ['-','*'][(word[x]==guess[x])] )
                                                                                
    return string.join(outstr,'')
                                                                                
res = wordcheck('Colin','Coolo')
print res
                                                                                




From richie at entrian.com  Fri Sep 19 06:31:04 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:31:04 +0100
Subject: SciTE
In-Reply-To: <2JAab.111501$bo1.103684@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <221d8dbe.0309180716.17d73ae2@posting.google.com> <2JAab.111501$bo1.103684@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <sbmlmvcp1ju8qiro4rggsh2rgro6nvglvr@4ax.com>

[Srijit]
> I am unable to access http://www.scintilla.org/tags2api.py?

[Neil]
> It should be readable again. The hosting provider recently 'upgraded'
> their systems.

Westhost by any chance?  Don't get me started.

I have some security concerns about Westhost's new setup - if you (Neil,
or anyone else using Westhost 2.0) want to discuss them off-list, drop me
an email.  I don't want to advertise potential vulnerabilities by
discussing them in a public forum, and there's no point trying to discuss
them with Westhost while their fans are still being hit by so much
proverbial.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From stuff at slinkp.com  Mon Sep 15 14:24:41 2003
From: stuff at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 11:24:41 -0700
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org> <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com>

Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message news:<EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083 at reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:55:59 GMT, 
> > 	Mitch Chapman <mitchchapman at earthlink.net> wrote:
> It's not useless, but it is not optimal. That's a fact. If you have a 
> multiprocessor machine, you just waste it because Python can't run two 
> threads at the same time. So if you want to create a high performance 
> web site, then Python is out of the question for the scripting language.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there. I'm going to
concentrate on one of them.

First, you assume that this hypothetical high-performance website
really is CPU-bound. I've never had one of those to deal with, but I
won't argue.

Second, I'll assume that SMP really is the most cost-effective way
available to scale up your CPU power. Probably depends on the rack
space you have available and maybe somebody already provided an SMP
box for the job.

Third, I'll assume that cacheing is already being used to the extent
that it's applicable. Every website I've worked on is much more
read-intensive than write-intensive. For these sort of sites,
appropriate cacheing buys you a LOT.
Disk space and RAM are cheap. But maybe you have an app where this
isn't the case and you really can't avoid heavy CPU useage.

Fourth, you seem to think that threading is the only / best-practice
way to handle a lot of requests. This is the point I'm going to argue
against.

I'll give one counter-example because it's the one I'm most familiar
with.
In the Zope world, it's common to run a load balancer in front of one
or more ZEO clients (processes) per processor, all connected to a
single ZEO server. This is a matter of very simple configuration. It's
*completely* transparent to the application, which has no idea whether
you're running ZEO or have a direct connection to a dedicated ZODB
database. ZEO has the added benefit of being equally applicable
whether the CPUs are on one box or not. You can't say that about
threading. This approach could certainly be used outside the zope
world. ZEO is not rocket science, it's about 6500 lines of code plus
3100 lines of unit tests. Note also that ZEO's primary purpose is to
remove one of the single points of failure; handling more requests is
almost a side effect. Free threading won't help you with the
point-of-failure issue.

I will also mention that it's quite possible to handle a lot of
requests without using threads *at all*, and the resulting code can
look very nice.  See twistedmatrix.com.

Sure, it would be nice if a single python process could take advantage
of SMP, but it's demonstrably false that python is currently "out of
the question" for "high performance" web use. In fact python performs
very well on the web. To say otherwise is nothing but FUD.

I think the primary problem with the GIL is the bad publicity that
results from faulty assumptions like this.



From soundwave56 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep  4 21:34:48 2003
From: soundwave56 at yahoo.ca (Hank)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 18:34:48 -0700
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
References: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com> <3F5656CA.519ABADF@easystreet.com> <bj85d3$iav$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <731fc603.0309041734.489635e7@posting.google.com>

I'm using ActivePython2.2 which has the win32 extensions included.
Don't think they have a ActivePython2.3 out yet.

Also I was trying out PAGE which needed 2.2. Don't have the resources
to recompile for 2.3.

Thanks for the help!

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in message news:<bj85d3$iav$03$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> <achrist at easystreet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:3F5656CA.519ABADF at easystreet.com...
> > Hank wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have a CSV file from excel that looks like this (simplified):
> > >
>  .........
> >
> >
> > import csv
> >
> > dicts  = []
> >
> > inputFile = open("SomeDurnFileName.csv",  "rb")
> > parser = csv.reader(inputFile)
> 
> If you do not use Python 2.3 for some reason or other there is a third party
> CSV that is fast and workes fine with Python 2.2 (but uses a different
> interface of course)
> http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/
> 
> Kindly
> Michael P



From domma at procoders.net  Thu Sep  4 01:32:23 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:32:23 +0200
Subject: py2exe copies to much dlls
Message-ID: <bj6iot$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I managed to build a simple com server with py2exe. My script only imports
codecs and re, but the dist folder contains tcl84.dll, tk84.dll and
win32ui.pyd. Can somebody tell me why? And how to prevent this? I don't do
any gui stuff, so where does the dependency comes from?

regards,
Achim





From amundsen463 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 16:00:05 2003
From: amundsen463 at yahoo.com (Craig Amundsen)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 13:00:05 -0700
Subject: MySQL-Python on OS X
Message-ID: <b2fb3fa7.0309091200.16f37fa4@posting.google.com>

Hi -

I'm trying to build the MySQL-Python module v0.9.2 on OS-X 10.2 for
the latest MySQL from Fink. I  have also installed the fink version of
Python (2.2.2).

I have made all the recommended changes to setup.py that I have been
able to find.

I have changed thread_safe_library from YES to NO

I have changed 
mysqlclient = thread_safe_library and "mysqlclient_r" or "mysqlclient"
to
mysqlclient = thread_safe_library and "mysqlclient"

and in the darwin section I have changed
include_dirs.append('/sw/include')
library_dirs.append('/sw/lib')
to
include_dirs.append('/sw/include/mysql')
library_dirs.append('/sw/lib/mysql')

when I run
/sw/bin/python setup.py build
I get this error:
line 1033, in gen_lib_options
  File "/sw/lib/python2.2/posixpath.py", line 65, in split
    i = p.rfind('/') + 1
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'rfind'

It looks like p is supposed to be a string containing a path, but
instead is an int. I have not seen this error mentioned anywhere in my
searches. Does anyone have any hints on how I can get this module to
build?

TIA,
- Craig



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 09:01:25 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:01:25 GMT
Subject: py2exe: dynamic module does not define init function
References: <81zbb.99124$hE5.3508075@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <FoCbb.100492$hE5.3545186@news1.tin.it>

Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth* wrote:

> hi, i have already problems using py2exe..
> i'm using python 2.2, wxPython and audiere for a little mp3 player..
> 
> once I've build the exe with py2exe, when launching the application:
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 9, in ?
>   File "imputil.pyc", line 103, in _import_hook
>   File "<string>", line 52, in _import_top_module
>   File "imputil.pyc", line 216, in import_top
>   File "imputil.pyc", line 267, in _import_one
>   File "<string>", line 163, in get_code
> ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initaudiere)
> 
> Sincerely I don't understand the error message..
> can someone explain me the message and if there's a solution?

The message is telling you that audiere.dll does NOT define the
mandatory function named 'initaudiere' which it should absolutely
define to allow the "import audiere" statement.  If the import
works fine outside of a py2exe'd environment but fails in the
latter then I suspect you may be getting the "wrong" DLL in the
second case (e.g. maybe you didn't copy audiere.dll to the
directory in which py2exe's tweaked import expects to find it).


Alex




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep  9 10:49:20 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 16:49:20 +0200
Subject: Unicode Newbie
In-Reply-To: <20030909162009.0247ce9d.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch>
References: <20030909162009.0247ce9d.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch>
Message-ID: <3F5DE870.8090505@ghaering.de>

Manuel Huesser wrote:
> The unicode function implies that you only can use 2 ** 16 chars
> (unichr supports only this range) but with a given encoding e.g.
> unicode(",,,", "utf-8") i should be able to encode
> up to 2** 31 chars.
> 
> "\xfc\x12\x12\x12\x12\x12\x12" is an example for a 7
> byte utf-8 string. But on encoding i get the following
> error:
> 
> UTF-8 decoding error: unsupported Unicode code range
> 
> Is there any possibility to do the job?

You can try compiling Python with --enable-unicode=ucs4.

But just because all characters map to a 0 .. 2^32 interval doesn't mean 
that there is a defined character for every number in the interval. So 
you'll still get encoding errors when you try to throw random 
bytestrings at the encode function.

-- Gerhard




From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Thu Sep 18 10:46:14 2003
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:46:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkcgfm$gu1$1@news.island.liu.se>

Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> wrote:

> Hi all,

> I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
> is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
> straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with sockets
> and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.

First of all you need to define what "being online" means...

Is it that your modem has dialed up your ISP and been able to
establish a PPP connection?  What if you don't use a modem, and
instead have ethernet straight into your ISP's network equipment?
If the link to your ISP's closest network equipment (switch/
router/PPP dialin) is up, but the link out from that is down --
are you "online" then?  Are you online if all the links within
your ISP is up, so you can reach everyone connected to the same
ISP, but their peering is broken so you can't reach anyone else?
What if there is a firewall somewhere between you and "The
Internet", blocking you from accessing many sites, are you
"online" then?  How large part of Internet do you need to be able
to reach to claim that you are "online"?  Or must perhaps the
Internet be able to reach *you* before you are considered to be
online?  (That means that a NAT box immediately makes you offline;
I tend to like that definition. :-)

Or perhaps you should tell us *why* you believe you need to check
if the computer is connected to the Internet or not.  Then we can
go directly to telling you that it is a bad idea, and suggest what
you should do instead. <0.5 wink>


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"I don't think [that word] means what you    !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 think it means."   -- The Princess Bride    !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!



From dokaspar at student.ethz.ch  Tue Sep 30 16:27:15 2003
From: dokaspar at student.ethz.ch (Dominik Kaspar)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 13:27:15 -0700
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
Message-ID: <62e9c66e.0309301227.20505db6@posting.google.com>

maybe my question was badly formulated. i give it a new try:
why does the following program give the output "0 0" and not "1 0"?
why does it loop forever? and how could that problem be fixed?

import threading

class Server(threading.Thread):
    running = 0
    
    def run(self):
        running = 1
        while running:
            print "do something here..."
            
    def stop(self):
        running = 0

server = Server()
server.start()
print server.running        # should print "1"
server.stop()
print server.running        # should print "0"



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 03:00:23 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 01:00:23 -0600
Subject: Ternary operator (Re: Ternery operator)
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com> <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bjh9e6$j9p$2@peabody.colorado.edu>

Michael Geary wrote:

> In retrospect, it seems obvious that the way the voting was conducted
> insured that no ternary operator would be added to the language.

Good point.  I, for one, was one of the people who would have been very happy to
see some form of ternary go in.  While I had my favorite, my biggest concern
was to have _some_ ternary, even if my favorite syntax didn't win (at least
amongst the most popular, which I felt were all fairly reasonable).  Oh well,
this will remain one of my few pet peeves with the language for the long haul
:)

Cheers,

f.



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Thu Sep  4 19:54:56 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:54:56 +1200
Subject: How do I match this with re
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13031B74D2@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AE18@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> Very important to everyone working with regular expressions: 
> the redemo.py script.  Search for a Scripts directory in your 
> python directories (it's under Tools on Windows, otherwise 
> get it from the source distribution), redemo.py is in there 
> along with other useful scripts.

For those that like a more GUI sort of thing, I highly recommend kodos:

<http://kodos.sourceforge.net>

Basically the same thing but with a GUI.  All in Python, of course.

=Tony Meyer





From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Fri Sep  5 17:03:52 2003
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 14:03:52 -0700
Subject: Advice to a Junior in High School?
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0309051303.72d0b489@posting.google.com>

A junior in high school?  First off, I wouldn't worry too much about
the job market, computers aren't going to go away, there will be a
need to program them for at least a little longer, and if you really
love it, you'll get good at it, and being better than most is all you
really need to get a job.  If you're still really worried, I'd suggest
a double major with electrical/computer engineering.  Learning what
goes on inside computers can be useful.  Take it from an EE grad who
wishes he'd done CS now.

As far as what languages to study, I wouldn't worry about that at all
at this point, any of the previous suggestions would be fine.  In high
school, I learned Pascal, Cobol, Basic (applesoft, if you must know)
and Fortran, and guess how long I kept using those languages?  First,
figure out what you need to know for the AP tests, learn that
language, and then figure out what languages are most
popular/applicable for whatever CS specialities you're interested in. 
Lisp and C are good suggestions, the highbrow CS types love Lisp, and
C will be useful until somebody finally puts a stake in Unix/Linux/(os
written in C).  Python is great if you enjoy it (and you should),
C++/java/perl always make nice resume items, but that's bound to
change by the time you get out of college, so keep an eye on them and
see if they last.  Many people have suggested learning a whole bunch
of languages, and that's fine if you want to learn a whole bunch of
languages, but if you enjoy programming more, then just pick the
languages you need to know to program what you want, and you should be
fine (for now, anyway).  Keep an eye on new languages, peruse them
occasionally to see if they can help you out, otherwise stick with
your favorites.  And in general, try to relax, I know the
hypercompetitive/internet time future is scary, but like most people,
you'll probably figure out some way to get by.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 21 12:08:10 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:08:10 +0100
Subject: Server-side programming
References: <HAMab.1175$1l5.436@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <3F6DCCEA.763D17C6@hotmail.com>

Timo Virkkala wrote:
> I'm creating a system with Python CGIs, that connect to a database. I'm
> wondering about input validation. Of course I will check the length of
> the passed parameters, to (hopefully) prevent any DOS attacks. What else
> do I need to check? Do I need to remove any SQL from the inputs?
> Anything else I might have overlooked?

You might not need to remove SQL from your field values. Doing so
would probably be a non-trivial string parsing exercise.

Most "SQL injection" attacks would be where a cracker hopes that you
are going to embed the contents of "username" and "password" fields
right into a string containing an SQL query, like so

mySQLString = """
select  *
from    users
where   uname = "%s" and password = "%s"
""" % (username, password)

If the query returns a non-zero number of rows, then that
username/password combination is deemed to be valid.

The problem comes when the cracker deliberately subverts the content
of the fields, supplying values like these, for example

username='alan'
password='" or 0=0 or password="'

Which when embedded into the SQL query string gives the following
final SQL query:

select  *
from    users
where   uname = "alan" and password = "" or 0=0 or password=""

Which will return at least 1 row, assuming that "alan" is a valid
username.

Now, trying to parse the syntax of the password field, looking for SQL
keywords such as "or", could be complex: there are quite a few
possible ways in which the query can be textually subverted.

AFAIK, the most effective way to prevent such attacks is to disable
any quote characters that may be present in the password, so that they
are treated as a part of the password string, not as delimiters in the
SQL query string. For example

import re
password = re.escape(password)

Which for the values given above would now give an SQL query of

select  *
from    users
where   uname = "alan" and password = "\"\ or\ 0\=0\ or\ password\=\""

Does anyone know of a more effective approach to preventing SQL
injection attacks?

Another potential attack is the "Cross Site Scripting (XSS) Attack",
whereby the attacker inserts javascript into a field value, which is
then embedded into the HTML transmitted by a web app to another user,
for example as a post in a message board.

This hostile javascript can do any number of nasty things to users
browsers including stealing cookies, or url-rewritten session IDs, so
that the innocent users login session can be hijacked and abused. 

Here is an article about XSS attacks.

http://www.cgisecurity.net/articles/xss-faq.shtml

AFAIK, the most effective solution to preventing XSS attacks is to ban
HTML/tags/javascript from being inserted into text strings that will
be displayed as part of a HTML page. This could be done by

1. Parsing the string as HTML, and stripping out <script> tags.
2. Escaping (in the HTML sense) all field inputs, to disable markup
special characters such as "<", ">", etc.

Does anyone know of other potential textual attacks against web pages,
input forms and field values?

It would be really nice to have a central, python focussed, repository
of these attack techniques, and how they can be prevented with python
code. Does anyone know of such a page?

If we get enough information from this thread, I might start up a page
about the subject.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Sep  6 19:54:12 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 19:54:12 -0400
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it> <bjcbha$vmp$02$1@news.t-online.com> <8Um6b.34442$R32.1077180@news2.tin.it> <v6Cdne4p1M5Zl8eiXTWJgA@comcast.com> <kKt6b.24041$hE5.882369@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <_ru6b.4463$I_2.688035@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:kKt6b.24041$hE5.882369 at news1.tin.it...
[snip]
> >>
> >>    attribute salary is Currency
> >>        "Salario mensile"
> >>        restriction quantity(1)
> >>
> >>        on create code Python
> >>            if value[0] < minimumSalary:
> >>                value = [ minimumSalary ]
> >>            return value
> >>        %%
> >
> > My reflexive reaction was 'ugh'.  My considered reaction is 'bravo'.
>
> Glad you reconsidered;-).  I'm not enthusiastic about that %%, but we
> found that relying on just indentation for that specific role (indicating
> the end of embedded Python code and the return to the declarative
> language) was quite error-prone (e.g. due to Python continuation lines),
> so we decided we needed a marker of SOME kind or other right there,
> and for now, until further development, it's that "%%" thingy.

Hi.
Could "end code" replace "%%" as 'the end of embedded Python code' delimiter
in that language?
Just curious,
Sean





From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 22 12:31:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 17:31:54 +0100
Subject: Where to publish my code
References: <1f0bdf30.0309212039.16c9bef0@posting.google.com> <87r829t75e.fsf@pobox.com> <APBbb.116957$bo1.12014@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <87he34u6md.fsf@pobox.com>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> writes:

> [Erik Lechak]
> > 2) Sourceforge
> > ...
> 
> [John J. Lee]
> > Just ignore their file release system (which is apparently going away
> > soon anyway).  That's what I do -- treat it as free web space.  All
> > you need is scp and ssh.
> 
>    After a couple of months of doing this I received a request to move the
> files from the web space to the release system. May depend on how often your
> files are downloaded.

I've been doing that for over a year, so it seems that low bandwidth
projects like mine don't bother them much.  I certainly don't remember
reading anything when I signed up that requires you to use their file
release system.  Maybe when they roll out their new file release
system (supposedly easier to use) they'll be less tolerant.


John



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Sep  8 20:57:46 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:57:46 -0400
Subject: datetime: .datetime-.datetime = .timedelta, .time-.time=TypeError ?
In-Reply-To: <esuolvc6tuuhfub8jtobffv722281t7p56@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEKBFMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou]
> Is there any reason for datetime.time subtraction not returning a
> datetime.timedelta object, just like datetime.datetime subtraction
> does?

Guido didn't want time objects participating in arithmetic because the
desired semantics are unclear.  For example, if you allow

    time1 - time2

to return a timedelta, then you'll also want to allow

    time2 + timedelta

to return a time, and then you've got to make up rules for what happens when
adding spills over a midnight boundary.  Should it "wrap around"?  Raise
OverflowError?  Guido didn't want to endure arguments about that.

Note that the analogous question for datetime objects is easy, because
there's a well-defined Beginning and End to the span of times datetime
objects can represent -- OverflowError is the obvious thing to get if you
try to compute a result spilling over those bounds.  Try adding "a year" to
"midnight", though, and half the world will curse you if it raises an
exception, while the other half will curse you if it says "hmm -- still
midnight".  A third half will whine about leap seconds <wink>.

> It doesn't feel good having to use dumb year, month, day
> arguments constructing datetime object when doing only time
> arithmetic.

What's wrong with using timedeltas?

>>> print timedelta(hours=3, minutes=15) - timedelta(hours=2, minutes=45)
0:30:00
>>>

> If there is no specific reason apart from lack of time (no pun), I'm
> willing to research it and write a patch (I haven't seen the code,
> but I believe it would be quite easy).

Selling it would be harder than writing it.





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 26 13:32:22 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:32:22 -0500
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
In-Reply-To: <ur823fqiu.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
        <16244.22946.446379.622160@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <ur823fqiu.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <16244.30758.381156.351062@montanaro.dyndns.org>

 
    >> If you find stuff in PEPs you believe belongs in the standard
    >> documentation set, please file a documentation bug report.

    Dave> Oof.  MRO, descriptors, most of PEPs 252 and 253 last time I
    Dave> checked, just off the top of my head.  Do I you really think it
    Dave> would make a difference to *formally* point out that many elements
    Dave> of the basic design of the object model aren't in the docs?

Yes, it would help.  We have people come to python-dev and ask, "How can I
help?".  It also serves as a reminder to people who can make the change that
it needs to be addressed.  Without it, I suspect most of us will forget it
in the next couple of weeks.

    Dave> And, this is not a rhetorical question: how many bug reports would
    Dave> be appropriate for all of this information?  Some of these PEPs
    Dave> cover several topics.

I'd just file one having a subject like "migrate PEP content to
documentation" to start with.  Assign it to me if you feel the urge.  I'm
pretty sure Fred's swamped.

    Dave> Sure, I knew that, but while the docs are still incomplete, you
    Dave> use what you can, and it would be nice to be sure that the
    Dave> information was readily accessible.

It's still readily accessible, but it's hard to see that "PEPs" should rank
up there on the front page with more general concepts like "Documentation"
or "Developers".  Front page real estate is always at a premium.  I think
it's appropriate that they are referred as they are now.

On matters such as this, I don't even bother with the website.  My browser
home page is a bunch (17) of popup menus laid out in a tabular format and a
few <form>s.  It has two Python-related menus:

    Python                           Python Docs          
    ------                           -----------                 
    Python Home Page                 Module Index        
    Python VM Wiki                   Python PEPs                 
    Python @ SF                      Python Wiki                 
    Python Glossary                  Python HOWTOs       
    Python-Mode @ SF                 C/C++ API           
    CSV mailing list                 Library Reference   
    ALF @ SF                         Language Reference  
    Watch @ SF                       Spambayes archives  
    Psyco @ SF                       Python-dev archives         
    Parnassus                        Python-list archives 
    Skip's Python Bits               Python-help archives 

That way I always know where to get at the stuff I'm interested in and am
insulated from changes to the link properties of web pages not completely
under my control.

Skip




From lefevrol at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 10:35:58 2003
From: lefevrol at yahoo.com (Olivier Lefevre)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 07:35:58 -0700
Subject: safari (was Re: Writing solid code book)
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <51809ae4.0309040635.6700fe17@posting.google.com>

And let us not forget
3. poor customer service (you have to try real hard to reach someone)

-- O.L.



From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep 18 15:37:49 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:37:49 +0200
Subject: Scaling Tk scrollbar handles
References: <K96dnU3ln-RTefSiU-KYvg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bkd1fu$76o$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Gordon Airport" <uce at ftc.gov> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:K96dnU3ln-RTefSiU-KYvg at comcast.com...
> None of the online references that I'm using or can find tell you if
> this can be done.

???
This is really no secret!
E.g. look at at New Mexico Tech
http://www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/lang.html
There are two very concise as well as comprehensive documents. One about Tk,
one about Python.

    scrollbar.set(a,b)

where a is the fraction (0..1) where the thumb shall start and b where it
should end...

Kindly
Michael P






From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 18:06:39 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:06:39 +0300
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <mailman.1064537919.23612.python-list@python.org> <7h3brt7o2h8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <d7bhnv4u6jak6asrfiv592sq9itt3i1286@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:04:24 GMT, rumours say that Michael Hudson
<mwh at python.net> might have written:

[I, "if only int(math.log(x,10))..."]
> >> worked correctly for *all* large values, like 10**70...

[Michael, using a larger number]
> > Um, it does :-)

[Tim]
>> You're not used to answering floating-point questions <wink>.

[Michael]
>Or prehaps just conveniently ignoring what "work" means in a given
>context :-)

I didn't reply earlier since Tim --how uncommon-- covered the subject
better (he also corrected my +1 omission/misteak), but I believe you
should have said: 'conveniently ignoring what "work correctly" means in
a given context'... ;-)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From john at rygannon.com  Thu Sep 18 05:05:52 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:05:52 GMT
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

I have to agree with the assertion that theKompany.com very slow to update
the web site, hence the reason why I have sort of taken it upon myself to do
something about it. I work for theKompany.com and no matter how hard I push,
nothing ever seems to get done. They all agree that improvement have to be
made. TheKompany.com will still handle sales but my web site will handle
promotion and marketing - www.rygannon.com
Even though BA is not my project (I am the co-author of Rekall - a Python
programmable cross platform database independant GUI database client - sorry
for the shameless plug) I will do whatever I can to keep the group and my
web site up to date. One thing I would like to do it to set up a BA Forum on
www.rygannon.com. Freeback, suggestions, criticism (good or bad), etc is
essential for the developement and improvement of any software project. I
will make sure any and all posts get a mention at our weekly conference.
Therefore, I encourage anybody and everybody who has an interest in the
present and future development of BA (or any other of theKompany's projects)
to register as a user at www.rygannon.com.

-- 
Best Regards
John



From jseb at cs.mcgill.ca  Tue Sep 30 09:36:44 2003
From: jseb at cs.mcgill.ca (Jean-S?bastien Bolduc)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 06:36:44 -0700
Subject: eval's local arguement ignored?
References: <56e1eff0.0309230923.1215833f@posting.google.com> <21064255.0309260745.6d3d5650@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <56e1eff0.0309300536.51fdf2b0@posting.google.com>

> **kwa** is the solution!
> 
> In your factory-function *foo* you have to declare *a*
> keywordarguement which is initialized with a.
> 
> >>> def foo():
> ... 	a=1
> ... 	f=lambda x,a=a:a*x
> ... 	return f

Not exactly what I'm looking for, I'm afraid. A more complete picture
is this: I'm writing a class such as this:

class Foo:
  def __init__(self, fnc, **params):
    ...
  def evaluate(self, val)
    ...

That has to be instantiated as, e.g.:

x = Foo( 'lambda x : a*x', dict( a = 2. ) )

so that "x.evaluate( 5. )" will return, in this case, "2.*5.".

The approach you describe will certainly work, but the thing is that
this class will have to be used by people who don't necessarily know
Python (yet). So I would really like the lambda function's parameter
list to always be the same, whatever you put on its RHS.

Once again, I don't understand why the "eval", as described above with
"globals" and "locals" arguments specified, will not work. Is there a
way to modify a function's closure?

Thanks,
JSeb



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Thu Sep 18 09:19:58 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:19:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com> <bkc5lv$5c4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <HBF.20030918w8nt@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <bkcbdu$l0c$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Hallvard B Furuseth <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no> wrote:
> 'closure' is a much-abused word.
> This is a closure over foo's x variable:

> def foo():
>   x = 3
>   def bar():
>     x += 1
>     return x
>   return bar

> f = foo()
> print f()  # print 4
> g = foo()
> print f()  # print 5
> print g()  # print 4

> ...or it would be, if it worked.

Python does have closures; the trouble is you can't rebind variables
defined in arbitrary scopes--you can only rebind locals and globals.
So you need some indirection for it to work:

  >>> def foo():
  ...   x = [3]
  ...   def bar():
  ...     x[0] += 1
  ...     return x[0]
  ...   return bar
  ... 
  >>> f = foo()
  >>> f()
  4
  >>> g = foo()
  >>> f()
  5
  >>> g()
  4

This is actually one of my biggest complaints about Python.  I'd like
syntactic disambiguation between definition and assignment in order to
have control over which scope you're assigning into.



From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Wed Sep 17 16:17:02 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:17:02 +0200
Subject: Money data type
References: <mailman.1063823424.16083.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8765jrtbk1.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

look at http://fixedpoint.sourceforge.net/ it gives you numeric object
for monetary applications (I have never used it)

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From see at my.signature.com  Sat Sep 20 21:01:10 2003
From: see at my.signature.com (Andrei)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:01:10 -0400
Subject: What is the meaning of the astarisk in Python
References: <3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3395452.1064106070@dbforums.com>

They're both shortcuts for specifying parameters. args is a tuple of
positional arguments, kwargs is a dictionary of keyword arguments.
Like this:



>>> def myfunc(*args):

..     print args

..

>>> myfunc(3,4,"c")

(3, 4, 'c')

>>> def myfunc(**kwargs):

..     print kwargs

..

>>> myfunc(a=3, b=4)

{'a': 3, 'b': 4}

>>> def myfunc(*args, **kwargs):

..     print args, kwargs

..

>>> myfunc(2, 3, c=5, d=6)

(2, 3) {'c': 5, 'd': 6}

>>> myfunc(2, 3)

(2, 3) {}

>>> myfunc(c=5, d=6)

() {'c': 5, 'd': 6}


--
Contact info (decode with rot13): cebwrpg5 at bcrenznvy.pbz
Fcnzserr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp zrffntrf. V ernq gur yvfg, ab arrq gb PP.


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From vald at valis.amber.eu.org  Sat Sep 20 16:32:59 2003
From: vald at valis.amber.eu.org (K. N.)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:32:59 +0200
Subject: XML/XSLT with Python
Message-ID: <20030920203256.GA17306@bobas.nowytarg.pl>

Is there any good and fast Python module for XSLT
processing ? I'm going to use XML and XSLT to generate
web pages, so I need XSLT processor that will be able
to transform for example a DOM object in memory - I 
don't want to create XML file containing data and then
load it and transform with XSLT, but I want to do 
this at once - without writing to a temporary file. 
Actually I've seen alot articles about parsing XML, 
but nothing about creating XML documents and storing
it as an object that will be passed to XSLT processor,
and that is what I'm planning to do.
I think its a quite good solution, but I have no idea
which modules will be most suitable for this task.
Does anyone have some experience in this matter and 
could point me where should I look ?

Best regards,
 K.




From lists at webcrunchers.com  Mon Sep 29 18:03:34 2003
From: lists at webcrunchers.com (John D.)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:03:34 -0700
Subject: Python question
Message-ID: <v03110709bb9e5c66d481@[192.168.0.2]>

#This program gives: "SyntaxError: unqualified exec is not allowed
#  in function _ it contains a nested function with free variables"

#I understand this is a scope problem(?)
#I don't understand why this fails. It should be perfectly obvious
#what z is equal to when exec sees it. Furthermore, it shouldn't care
#about any other variables since it uses no others, and writes to none.

#What does this mean? What is "unqualified" and how do I qualify it?
#Are the free variables d or z? Is 'free' a boolean state or are there
#other related qualities? 
#What are the various work-arounds? 

#I am using d as a global dictionary to store all my variables.

d={} #Doesn't matter if I have d here
def myfunc():
	z='print'
	exec(z)
	d={} #or here...
	def setvar():
		d[0]=1
		return






From rob at cs.brown.edu  Thu Sep 18 17:31:17 2003
From: rob at cs.brown.edu (Rob Hunter)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:31:17 -0400
Subject: Binding frustration
Message-ID: <701E2432-EA1F-11D7-967C-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>

So I thought I had come to peace with binding in Python, but then this 
happened to me:

I was trying to do things the Python way (as opposed to the Scheme way) 
as was suggested to me, and so here's a shortened version of my program:

def getGenres(title):  #it takes a movie title and returns a list of 
genres that the movie falls into

     result = [] # my accumulator

     def inGenre(g): # g is a genre
         if <here I test if "title" is of genre g (using a simple Python 
dictionary I have collected from a mini web crawl)>:
               result = result + [g] # if title is of genre g, then add 
it to the accumulator

      # and then I do a number of inGenre tests:
      inGenre('Comedy')
      inGenre('Sci-fi')
      inGenre('Suspense')
      ...
      return result

So what's wrong with this program?  Well, Python tells me:

UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before assignment

It seems my only choice is to move result to the global environment, 
but if that's not a kludge, I don't know what is.  So why doesn't this 
work?  Python lambdas are able to use "free" variables in this way.  
Why not a def?  And more importantly, how should I get around this?

Thanks all,

Rob





From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Sep  5 07:26:37 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 13:26:37 +0200
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <yra3b.6546$Jh2.2048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <23891c90.0308280317.ac68b38@posting.google.com> <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <biqve2$qp0$1@panix1.panix.com> <bj9jrv$95r$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <tyf3cfbpjbm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> -If microsoft hadn't stalled progress in software development by
> hiding the algorithms used for their software we would *now* be
> there where we will be in twenty years.

I think that Microsoft has stalled progress, not by hiding any
worderful technology that they might have, but by making the vast
majority of users accept sub-mediocrity as the norm.

They have run a hugely successful advertising campaign for the whole
concept of sub-mediocrity; the desire for quality is what has
suffered. By doing so, they have greatly influenced the direction of
progress and of the meaning of "better". In the Microsoft mindset
"better" means that the bouncy paperclip moves more smoothly, and can
now do the cha-cha as well as the samba ... while it remains perfectly
acceptable to have to reboot the computer each time you want to
install a new piece of software.



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Wed Sep  3 06:13:53 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 12:13:53 +0200
Subject: what is the easiest way to parse a file
In-Reply-To: <H_b5b.23$1o4.1177@news.oracle.com>
References: <H_b5b.23$1o4.1177@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <3f55bc6e$0$26843$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

tagarwal wrote:
> Is there a library in python which could be used for parsing file based upon
> various sections

You don't give enough context for anyone to answer. Learn to ask smart 
questions if you hope to have smart answers !-)

You may want to read the excellent 'Text Processing in Python' by David 
Mertz.

Bruno




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 23 09:53:24 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:53:24 GMT
Subject: command line or idle?
References: <bkph6m$ljs$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <ofYbb.148265$R32.4804476@news2.tin.it>

sjf wrote:

> Is it possible to distinguish if script is running on python command line
> (python.exe) or IDLE?

Not in entirely reliable way, but there are many hints you can generally
rely on.  For example, in the IDLE "Python Shell" sys.stdout is an
instance of idlelib.rpc.RPCProxy (in IDLE 1.0) -- that MIGHT happen
even "on python command line", of course, but it is not very likely to.


Alex




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Sep  6 14:45:19 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:45:19 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com> <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli9pochlcoc8e@news.supernews.com> <bjd20a$sf6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <vlkaqo1rf1nv49@news.supernews.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:bjd20a$sf6$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:15:00 -0400, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com>
wrote:
>
> >
> >"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> >news:3f591d28$0$175$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> >> In article <vli387c9mm140a at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> >>
> >> >> So that there's no difference between a function and a method.
> >> >>
> >> >> Simplicity and orthogonality are good things -- despite what
> >> >> C++ proponents thing.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hence my comment that requiring it is more complex than not
> >> >> > requiring it.
> >> >>
> >> >> No, it's more complex the Java/Ruby way, since you have to have
> >> >> two sets of rules for what a name means depending on whether
> >> >> you're inside a "normal" function or a method.  In Python
> >> >> there's just one set of rules -- mostly.
> >> >
> >> > As I said earlier, it's quite possible to define it so that there
> >> > is always an instance of some kind; whether that's an instance
> >> > a class or the module itself.
> >>
> >> I don't follow.  You're talking about defining a keyword that
> >> always refers to the first parameter passed to a function?  And
> >> the declared parameters would refer to the 2nd through Nth
> >> parameters?  What if the keyword isn't used in the function
> >> definition, then do the delcared parameters refer to the 1st
> >> through Nth?
> >
> >When Python invokes a function, it binds the operands in the
> >function call to the identifiers named in the function / method
> >header. If this is a method, it binds the instance (which is not
> >in the invocation parameter list, btw.) to the first
> >parameter in the method header.
> >
> >If you make "self" a reserved word, then all it has to do
> >is bind the instance to "self," rather than the first identifier
> >in the parameter list.
> >
> >In current python, there are two classes of functions (module
> >level and embedded) and three classes of methods (instance,
> >class and static.) Instance methods get the current instance,
> >class methods get the class object as the instance, and the other
> >three categories get nothing.
> >
> >As a separate suggestion, I'd have Python bind the module
> >object to "self" for module functions and static methods. I
> >haven't figured out what I want done with embedded methods
> >and unbound methods yet. Notice that this eliminates the
> >need for the global statement for module functions - all
> >identifiers are accessible for rebinding through "self."
> >
> >> > I think my comments have shown that you can reduce the amount
> >> > of scoping / name space rules noticably.
> >>
> >> Compared to what?  It sure sounds like you're introducing more
> >> rules than there are now.  How would you propose reducing the
> >> number of rules?
> >
> >If you don't have to write "self" as the first parameter of a method,
> >that reduces the complexity. Everything else remains the same.
>
> Will this still be possible?
>
>  >>> def foo(*args): print args
>  ...
>  >>> class A(object): pass
>  ...
>  >>> class B(A): pass
>  ...
>  >>> a = A()
>  >>> b = B()
>  >>> A.bar = foo
>  >>> b.bar('howdy')
>  (<__main__.B object at 0x00906E70>, 'howdy')
>  >>> a.bar('howdy')
>  (<__main__.A object at 0x00907170>, 'howdy')
>  >>> foo('howdy')
>  ('howdy',)
>
>  >>> A.bar('hello')
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  TypeError: unbound method foo() must be called with A instance as first
argument (got str instan
>  ce instead)
>  >>> A.__dict__['bar']('hello')
>  ('hello',)
>
> I.e., the method-vs-function distinction is a matter of how you access the
function dynamically,
> not how you define it. There is no static distinction in functionality,
AFAIK (though I guess
> there could possibly be some speculative optimizations).

It certainly needs to be. One of the reasons I haven't written a PEP is
that providing an instance to an unbound method is a case I don't have
a clear and simple answer to at the moment.

>
 (The above doesn't even get into the multiple name issues I alluded to).

I don't think the multiple name issues are relevant - that has to do with
how the functions/methods are invoked, rather than what's in the header.)

John Roth
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Sep  8 19:17:07 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:17:07 -0700
Subject: enum in Python
In-Reply-To: <%V67b.653$NW3.617@news1.central.cox.net>
References: <KF67b.33$fd2.25@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com> <%V67b.653$NW3.617@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3f5d0df1$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

David M. Cook wrote:

> In article <KF67b.33$fd2.25 at newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>, Andrew Chalk wrote:
> 
> 
>>As a rank Python beginner I've used a dictionary, but presumably there is a
>>better way.
> 
> 
> I've seen idioms like 
> 
> FOO, BAR, BAZ = range(3)
> 
> used.
> 
> Dave Cook

For 2.3 or after:

     class Enumerate(object):
         def __init__(self, names):
             for number, name in enumerate(names.split()):
                 setattr(self, name, number)

To use:
     codes = Enumerate('FOO BAR BAZ')
     codes.BAZ will be 2 and so on.


if you only have 2.2, precede this with:

     from __future__ import generators

     def enumerate(iterable):
         number = 0
         for name in iterable:
             yield number, name
             number += 1




codes.BAZ




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 06:53:16 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 11:53:16 +0100
Subject: ANN: PyQt v3.8 Released
References: <mailman.1061147189.23632.python-list@python.org> <fc30bff.0308171759.7c4c564@posting.google.com> <mailman.1061196870.3067.python-list@python.org> <43e3984e.0309110116.18b9d065@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87y8wvvboj.fsf@pobox.com>

ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses) writes:

> Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<mailman.1061196870.3067.python-list at python.org>...
[...]
> > If you mean Windows then QApplication.winEventFilter() and QWidget.winEvent() 
> > were added to PyQt v3.4 at the specific request of somebody who wanted to do 
> > this. Sorry, but I don't have example code.
[...]
> I find QT have a trayicon example in C++, I study it. But I can't 
> convert it to python . Can you give some advice. Thanks.

Post your code, tell us what appears to go wrong.  You might find the
PyKDE list a better place to post, though.


John



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 08:37:29 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 13:37:29 +0100
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it> <bjcbha$vmp$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87r82uum7q.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:
> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it>
[...]
> My other point was that there nothing like that is going on in the software
> development business. The price of tools is of no significance. It is the
> (expected increase of productivity) The DoD Ada is the best example I can
> think of.

I haven't noticed anybody here arguing about tool costs.  The issue is
productivity.

[...]
> In most companies you do not train programmers but (try to) hire experienced
> staff.

Now we're going round in circles.  This point has already been addressed.

[...about Prechelt's study:]
> There will be different results when doing embedded applications

Gee, I guess you're right. ;-)


> Coding is agreed, maintenance is still questionable.

You believe fewer lines of code, written in a language that almost
everybody who uses it claims is the most readable they've ever seen,
results in maintenance problems?  Perhaps you haven't discovered
thorough unit-testing.

[...]
> > It's been done more than once, and it's being done again as we speak,
> > many times over -- again, see the Python Success Stories.  Google is
[...]
> It is not clear whether this is just a niche market like e.g. MATLAB.

I honestly can't find any sense in that statement -- it's a foolishly
empirical statement (and doesn't even reflect the empirical data).
What reason do you have for thinking that Python is somehow magically
restricted to implementing large search-engines??  Is it full of
task-specific syntax and semantics like MATLAB?  Have you read the
success stories page, or peoples' reports in this group?


John



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 19 07:28:56 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:28:56 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com>

nospam wrote:

> Has someone got a Python routine or module which converts Unicode
> strings to lowercase (or uppercase)?

Toiled and came up with:

>>> print u"abc????".upper()
ABC????

>>> u"ABC???".lower()
u'abc\xe4\xf6\xfc'

Peter



From ulope at gmx.de  Sun Sep 21 14:40:30 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:40:30 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de> <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122> <bkim08$f8i$1@news.hccnet.nl> <pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bkkrau$2uaqf$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"jblazi" <jblazi at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000 at hotmail.com...
> I shall have a computer science class this year and I decided to use
> Python. It is my favourite language and I have used it for many years. Now
> I thought, one of our first "real" programs, in our pre-graphical and
> pre-class state, would be to write simple program that works like this:
>
> One of the pupils enters a word. It should be a valid German word
> consisting of five letters, for example 'abcde' (which is not a German
> word by the way).
>
> The the other player may enter a guess which must be a five letter word as
> well, for example 'xbxxx'. Then the system answers with the string '-*---'
> as the 'b' in 'xbxxx' was correct and at the right place as well.
>
> Had the second player entered 'xxxbx', the system had responded with
> '---.-', as the 'b' is correct but not correctly positioned.
>
> The second player must find out the original word.
>

Hm sth. like this?

-----code------
def mastermind(word, guess):
    if len(word) != len(guess):
        return "Error"
    ret = ["-"]*len(word)
    counter = 0
    for lw, lg in zip(word, guess):
        if lw == lg:
            ret[counter] = "x"
        else:
            if lg in word:
                ret[counter] = "."
        counter += 1
    return "".join(ret)

>>> mastermind('haus', 'hasu')
'xx..'
>>> mastermind("jaguar", "januar")
'xx-xxx'
-----code-----


HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From uche at ogbuji.net  Sat Sep 27 16:18:25 2003
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 13:18:25 -0700
Subject: XML/XSLT with Python
References: <mailman.1064090130.16541.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0309271218.734934d@posting.google.com>

"K. N." <vald at valis.amber.eu.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064090130.16541.python-list at python.org>...
> Is there any good and fast Python module for XSLT
> processing ? I'm going to use XML and XSLT to generate
> web pages, so I need XSLT processor that will be able
> to transform for example a DOM object in memory - I 
> don't want to create XML file containing data and then
> load it and transform with XSLT, but I want to do 
> this at once - without writing to a temporary file. 
> Actually I've seen alot articles about parsing XML, 
> but nothing about creating XML documents and storing
> it as an object that will be passed to XSLT processor,
> and that is what I'm planning to do.
> I think its a quite good solution, but I have no idea
> which modules will be most suitable for this task.
> Does anyone have some experience in this matter and 
> could point me where should I look ?

4XSLT (http://4suite.org) will do what you seek.  In most situatons it
is not as fast as libxslt, which is, after all, written entirely in C,
but it does have its advantages, including a very rich Python API (in
my biased opinion the richest Python API of all the choices).  It is
certainly fast enough for most purposes.  You can use the cDomlette
mutation API to generate your document in memory and then pass it to a
pocessor instance.

I want to mention that Dr. Korb mentioned having problems with 4Suite
and Pyana, but in private conversation admits this was over a year
ago, i.e. eons in the life of an actively maintained project such as
4Suite.  Much has changed since then.

If you decide to give it a try, start with:

http://uche.ogbuji.net/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/basic-xslt
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/domlettes

See also:

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/10/16/py-xml.html
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/basic-xpath
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/xslt-ext-elems
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/xslt-ext-funcs
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-03-07/xslt-ext-api


-- 
Uche Ogbuji
http://uche.ogbuji.net



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 12:19:12 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:19:12 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <m2eky8dtny.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <GhQbb.196$eB.92@twister.southeast.rr.com> <hTZbb.2427$gi2.1120@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <mgs0nvko9fm2e9kcml3bv26h7q78gv5ks8@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:44:13 -0700, Tim Hochberg
<tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote:

>FWIW, Psyco recognizes this structure and removes the overhead 
>associated with it.

I went looking for Psyco yesterday, and all I could find was broken
links. Was sourceforge just having bad day, or is there a new site
that hasn't made it into Google yet?


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 15 09:27:35 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:27:35 -0400
Subject: Sending SMS...
References: <7b454334.0309131130.59cf64fa@posting.google.com> <bjvs8g$nso$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <16e631aa.0309132041.319f0982@posting.google.com> <bk12hf$s98$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <3F645802.162A90A7@engcorp.com> <bk1u0m$3c4$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <3F65BE47.FE68D8C3@engcorp.com>

Jarek Zgoda wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> pisze:
> 
> >> Also, be aware, that 1rstWap.com (and many other free SMS web gateways)
> >> require prior user registration, that can not be handled by program
> >> (they show user some picture with text that need to be entered
> >> correctly).
> >
> > Kind of defeats the value of suggesting that he use this as
> > a way of sending using Python, doesn't it?
> 
> Yes - if this should be service/daemon app and you don't have a user
> that can perform prior registration.
> 
> No - if this will be usual GUI app with user equipped with monitor,
> keyboard and mouse,  sitting in front of it.

You're right....  Sorry, I misread your first post as suggesting 
that each message, not just the registration, required the human 
confirmation.   (Yes, you were quite clear in what you wrote....
I must have been skimming or something. :-(  )

-Peter



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Mon Sep 29 13:51:46 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:51:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's the best MP3 (ID3) access library to use?
References: <182bcf76.0309290349.452a6643@posting.google.com> <87ekxzg3pg.fsf@voodoo.fake>
Message-ID: <bl9rfi$m5$4@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com> pisze:

>> I'm looking for a Python library to access ID3 information in MP3
>> files. A search of Parnassus picked up a number of possibilities, but
>> I can't work out which best suits what I'm trying to do. Some seem out
>> of date, others are Unix only, etc. There doesn't seem to be an
>> obvious "standard" module to use.
> 
> Try this: id3-py.sf.net
> It should work on Windows but I haven't tested yet

It works also on Windows, but accepts only ID3v1 tags.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:jarek at jabberpl.org http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Sep 23 21:08:52 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:08:52 -0400
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qnky8wf3sd7.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, joseph at ugcs.caltech.edu (John Lin) wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I want to know how to tell if a forked process is done.
>
> Actually, my real question is that I want to run a shell script inside
> of a python script, and after the shell script has finished running, I
> want to do more stuff *condition* on the fact that the shell script
> has finished running, inside the same python script.
>
> The only way I can think of is to fork a process and then call the
> shell script, as in:
>   pid = os.fork()
>   if pid == 0:
>     os.execl(shellscript_name.sh, "")
> but how can I know if the shell script is finished?

Look up os.wait and os.waitpid in the Python Library Reference. Or,
for this case, use os.system().

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 13:52:07 2003
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (Phil Schmidt)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 10:52:07 -0700
Subject: SWIG, MinGW, and Python 2.3 problem
Message-ID: <221e7b06.0309100952.1858a1b6@posting.google.com>

I'm attempting to follow the instructions at
http://sebsauvage.net/python/mingw.html, without luck.

I have Python 2.3, MinGW 3.2.3, ans SWIG 1.3.19.

I get an export error on "initexample" when attempting the example. Do
I need some extra switches to get SWIG to create that function? Or is
it something else?

Here's my example build:


C:\Phil\python\Extensions\example>python setup.py build
--compiler=mingw32
running build
running build_ext
building 'example' extension
swigging example.i to example_wrap.c
C:\Phil\python\Extensions\SWIG-1.3.19\swig.exe -python -o
example_wrap.c example.i
creating build
creating build\temp.win32-2.3
creating build\temp.win32-2.3\Release
c:\mingw\bin\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -Ic:\python23\include
-Ic:\python23\PC -c example.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\example.o
c:\mingw\bin\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -Ic:\python23\include
-Ic:\python23\PC -c example_wrap.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\example_wrap.
o
example_wrap.c:170: warning: `SWIG_TypeDynamicCast' defined but not
used
example_wrap.c:182: warning: `SWIG_TypeName' defined but not used
example_wrap.c:188: warning: `SWIG_TypeQuery' defined but not used
example_wrap.c:423: warning: `SWIG_ConvertPtr' defined but not used
example_wrap.c:515: warning: `SWIG_ConvertPacked' defined but not used
writing build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\example.def
creating build\lib.win32-2.3
c:\mingw\bin\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -shared -s
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\example_wrap.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\example.o build\temp.win32-2.3\Re
lease\example.def -Lc:\python23\libs -Lc:\python23\PCBuild -lpython23
-o build\lib.win32-2.3\example.pyd
Cannot export initexample: symbol not defined
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 15:44:36 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:44:36 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <EG0db.175320$R32.5577927@news2.tin.it>

David Abrahams wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> 
>> David Abrahams wrote:
>>    ...
>>> Also, the idea of denying tuples the ability to reverse iterate seems
>>> arbitrary and capricious.
>>
>> Sure, but so is denying them, e.g., non-mutating methods such as
>> .index() and .count().
> 
> Not IMO. Immutability is a very useful trait.

Sure, very useful indeed -- and why does YO suggest that add such
NON-mutating methods would damage immutability in the LEAST...?


>> At least we're _consistently_ arbitrary and capricious!-)
> 
> Not in this case.

Some amplification would be welcome, because the above comment
on immutability's usefulness is totally obscure to me in context.


Alex




From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Tue Sep  9 11:18:00 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:18:00 -0400
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
In-Reply-To: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com>
References: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5DEF28.6040900@zephyrfalcon.org>

ben at transversal.com wrote:
> I am slightly confused about the way metaclasses work, having read
> "Metaclass Programming In Python, Parts 1 and 2"
> 
> I get the fact that the instance of a metaclass is a class, but in
> this case I fail to see why the following does'nt work:

I'm not 100% sure, but:

>>>>class Meta(type):
> 
> ...     def __str__(cls):
> ...             print "I am " + repr(cls)
> ... 
> 
>>>>Class = Meta("Fish", (), {})
>>>>Class.__str__()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: descriptor '__str__' of 'object' object needs an argument

...here, you're calling __str__ on a *class*...

>>>>class Simple(object):
> 
> ...     def __str__(self):
> ...             return "I am " + repr(self)
> ... 
> 
>>>>obj = Simple()
>>>>obj.__str__()
> 
> I am <__main__.Simple object at 0x402f676c>

...and here, you're calling it on an *instance*.  The reason it doesn't work 
probably has nothing to do with your metaclass, as demonstrated by this:

 >>> class Foo(object): pass
...
 >>> Foo.__str__()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: descriptor '__str__' of 'object' object needs an argument
 >>> f = Foo()
 >>> f.__str__()
'<__main__.Foo object at 0x0162C750>'

I'm not sure how it all works internally... using str(Foo) works, but 
Foo.__str__() doesn't.  Notice that Foo.__str__(Foo) does work.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your metaclass (though see below ;-), 
just don't call __str__() directly on the class.

On a side note, it's a bad idea to use 'print' in __str__ or __repr__, even for 
informal test code.  I tried the code above in PyCrust, and it broke the 
automatic attribute lookup.  This is not really important, but it was a 
surprising side effect.

HTH,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From grobinson at transpose.com  Wed Sep  3 10:13:07 2003
From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:13:07 -0400
Subject: unicode memory usage
Message-ID: <BB7B6F33.2DB94%grobinson@transpose.com>

We have an application which involves storing a lot of strings in RAM. It
would be most convenient to use Unicode strings, but I am wary  of doubling
memory usage. My fear is based on the idea that unicode strings may take two
bytes per character in order to accomodate non-ascii characters.

But I don't know whether that's actually how Python strings work internally.

So, my question: Do unicode strings in Python take substantially more memory
than classic python strings or not, assuming the strings are generally 99%
ASCII characters (but not 100%)?


--Gary

-- 
Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through
overzealous spam filters.

Gary Robinson
CEO
Transpose, LLC
grobinson at transpose.com
207-942-3463
http://www.transpose.com
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101454






From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Sep  1 11:28:09 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 11:28:09 -0400
Subject: Windows Remote Log in
References: <mailman.1062079011.24483.python-list@python.org> <hHo3b.29530$IQ2.5903@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <uvfscplyu.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Jesse <redrumjack at hotmail.com> writes:

> What I need is some way for user to enter the proper credentials so
> Python could restart the service on the remote machine.
> 
> If this isn't making sense please disregard and I'll move on to
> something a bit easier.

When I first started doing a lot of management scripts for Windows it
seemed strange to me that so many Win32 API calls would accept a
remote machine name, but no optional credentials.  As it turns out,
Windows shares a single set of credentials per remote machine among
any operations being performed to that remote machine.  If there are
no established credentials due to a prior operation or access that is
still in place, then your default credentials (those currently
established by your login) are used.  And in fact if you try an
operation that does accept credentials, and they are different from
the established credentials the operation will fail (which can be
infuriating at times :-)).

So it's a clumsy mechanism in many ways, but convenient in others
(since any operation the system performs, even with utilities that
don't provide a way to enter credentials) will inherit the established
credentials.

The trick is to get the proper set of credentials in place in a
persistent manner prior to performing whatever operation you want to
do.  One of the simplest persistent mechanisms is by accessing a
remote share.  And since all systems supporting Windows networking
operations always have an IPC$ share (used for basic connection
establishment), you can just "use" that share - as I believe another
responder pointed out recently. You don't need to map it to a drive or
anything, just use the share, and if you want, drop it when you are done.

Once you have this, then I'd just go for straight Win32 network calls
to manipulate the remote machine.  This has the advantage of being
more assured of working on your NT machines, since in most cases they
won't have some of the newer stuff like WMI installed, although you
could add that on.

Mark Hammond's win32all package wraps all of the appropriate functions
that you'll need (both to manipulate the remote access via the shares,
as well as perform remote operations such as calls to the service
manager).  You can generally start by using MSDN to examine how you
would perform the task with Win32 calls and then just find the right
wrapper in the win32all package.  In the 

For example, here's a snippet of code (using the win32net module) from
one of our scripts that is triggered when a remote machine for some
reason loses its D$ share (the administrative share to drive D:).  If
necessary we use the IPC$ share to gain the proper remote credentials,
and then create the remote share.

The NetUseAdd call is effectively the replacement for a command line
"net use" operation without a drive assignment, and the NetUseDel call
mimics the "net use /delete" operation.

Coming into this code:
    use_servers = optional list of machines we already have access to
    machine     = machine we are manipulating
    wic6user    = administrative user on remote machine
    wic6pwd     = administrative password on remote machine

          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    print "(Creating temporary share)"

    if use_servers and machine not in use_servers:
        print "(Creating temporary use)"
        use_info = {'remote':r'\\'+machine+r'\IPC$',
                    'asg_type':-1,
                    'username':wic6user,
                    'password':wic6pwd}
        try:
            win32net.NetUseAdd(None,2,use_info)
            have_use = 1
        except pywintypes.error, value:
            print "Couldn't create temporary use:", value

    # Create the remote share

    shareinfo = {'netname':'D$','path':'D:\\','max_uses':-1}
    try:
        win32net.NetShareAdd(machine,2,shareinfo)
        have_share = 1
    except pywintypes.error, value:
        print "Couldn't create share:", value

    # ... perform any other operations on remote machine ...

    if have_share:
        try:
            win32net.NetShareDel(machine,'D$')
        except pywintypes.error, value:
            print "Couldn't remove temporary D$ share:", value

    if have_use:
        try:
            win32net.NetUseDel(None,r'\\'+machine+r'\IPC$')
        except pywintypes.error, value:
            print "Couldn't remove temporary use:", value

          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In the case of managing services, the win32service module wraps most
everything you would need.  You can start a service with StartService,
stop it with ControlService with the SERVICE_CONTROL_STOP code, check
status with QueryServiceStatus and so on.  Or, if the existing
WService module you've been using works fine, you should just be able
to use it unchanged once you have locked in the proper remote
credentials via the IPC$ share.

Another quick 'n dirty approach we've also used is just to use
os.system, or more typically (so you can log the output) one of the
os.popen# calls, to farm the service operation out to a utility like
"sc" from the resource kit or psservice from sysinternals
(www.sysinternals.com).  You still need the IPC$ share in place for
credentials to remote domain machines, but like any other system call,
Windows will simply apply the established credentials to any
operations that those utilities perform.

-- David



From stevena at neosynapse.net  Fri Sep 12 22:02:47 2003
From: stevena at neosynapse.net (Steven D. Arnold)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:02:47 -0400
Subject: My future Python IDE article
In-Reply-To: <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BB87F307.1256%stevena@neosynapse.net>

On 9/9/03 1:11 AM, "Hardy Jonck" <hjonck at gims.com> wrote:

> I recently had a look at Jedit and must say I am impressed. Python
> support via Jython 2.1 - but the extensibility and philosophy that
> comes with Jedit is amazing.

I agree -- it has an awesome multi-file search feature that makes it fairly
competitive with even a five-star editor like Source Insight (which is
available only on Win32).  The spirit of this editor seems to be much like
emacs, and it's GPLed.  Right now I believe it is the best programmer's text
editor on Mac OS X, and I have done a detailed search for a good Mac OS X
text editor.

steve





From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Sep 24 10:49:06 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:49:06 -0600
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
In-Reply-To: <DdacnR-12Jpma--iU-KYvA@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <ad8tfdwv.fsf@python.net> <DdacnR-12Jpma--iU-KYvA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <200309240849.06646.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 25 September 2003 08:08 am, Terry Reedy wrote:
> > "Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> writes:
> > >     Would it be feasible to eliminate the Python Docs
> > >     from the standard distribution and always download
> > >     separately if desired ????
> > >
> > >     This would eliminate downloading the docs twice
> > >     if the user wants the separate doc files and provide
> > >     a leaner download for non-programming Python users
> > >     that will never develop anything in Python themselves
> > >     but who want a run-time environment only ....
>
> I agree that a separate Windows run-only distribution (including .pyc
> instead of .py files) 

FWIW, shipping the .py and _not_ the .pyc has one advantage in that the .py's 
tend to compress better. Combined with zipimporters in 2.3 this can result in 
a nice, small run-time.

> would be a good idea.  But someone has to
> volunteer the time or money to make it happen.  The current release
> procedure is still being refined and documented by the current
> volunteers.

I've been working on a simplistic implementation of such a run-time for my own 
projects. It's functional but very experimental (read: does what I need and 
not much else) and not well-documented or anything, but if anybody wants to 
play with what I've done so far just drop me a line. It's nice and small:

  19,530 ctypes.zip
  18,944 pycb.exe
   1,908 pycbcom.tlb
  19,456 pycbw.exe
 445,952 python23.dll
 749,092 python23.zip
   3,072 w9xpopen.exe
  20,480 _ctypes.pyd

(1.2 MB total - has _socket, select, _winreg, etc built in to the main dll)

It registers itself as an ActiveX control so that from Internet Explorer you 
can have a web page query to see if the run-time has been installed (so that, 
e.g., you can have the user download the app+runtime or just the app).

Small download size is a primary goal, with a close second being very little 
differentiation between the dev (.py) and release (.exe) environments (which 
has bitten me many times in the past). Thus I don't run python.exe any more 
at all for projects that will end up being distributed this way.

The library also registers the .pycb extension with Windows (pycb = "Python 
code bundle") so that you can distribute your code in a small app.pycb file 
that, from the user's perspective, is an "executable". For example, for a 
personal project I just completed the entire distribution consisted of:

venster.pycb (82k)
main.pycb (15k)

Under 100KB is not bad for a GUI app! :) 

The .pycb format is basically ZIP + AES encryption, and pycb uses the new 
import hooks in 2.3 to handle it. The encryption is just to keep honest 
people out; anybody with the right combination of smart and bored could 
figure out how to circumvent it.

-Dave




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 12:27:13 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:27:13 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <63gvmvcf6iakbs8pgll7u8ogblkbqld6fp@4ax.com> <6EQbb.1770$PT3.279727@news20.bellglobal.com> <8vovmvgmb5c677ii8a43l8l0o1sjbosre2@4ax.com> <lWYbb.4739$yD1.697869@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <nks0nvsrca2v8k9kobiqmteg64dp8r8rfn@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:40:30 -0400, "Sean Ross"
<sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

>Here's a quick hack of an int class that supports iteration using the slice
>notation, plus simple iteration on the class itself (for i in int: ...).
>This can certainly be improved, and other issues need to be addressed, but I
>just wanted to see what Stephen's idea would look like in practice. (Not
>bad. Actually, pretty good.)

I like it ;-)

Also, it kind of suggests that maybe a recipe or a library 'xint'
class or C extension module could do the job as well as a language
change.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep  4 15:44:13 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:44:13 +0200
Subject: unicode memory usage
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062700399.27324.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062700399.27324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj84m6$j2c$07$3@news.t-online.com>

Gary Robinson wrote:

> But I don't know whether that's actually how Python strings work internally.

Python Unicode objects use normally 2 bytes per character, unless Python 
is built in UCS-4 mode, in which case they use 4 bytes per character.

> So, my question: Do unicode strings in Python take substantially more memory
> than classic python strings or not, assuming the strings are generally 99%
> ASCII characters (but not 100%)?

Yes; you can expect that 99% of the storage for characters are null 
bytes, then. Whether this is substantial depends on the total amount of 
storage that you need for string objects, compared to the storage needed 
for other things, or the storage available.

Regards,
Martin




From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 16:17:37 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:17:37 GMT
Subject: How to pass parameter to a module?
References: <Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkc62g$5k0$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <dnmab.5254$9G2.2643@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkd0rb$qb2$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Bpoab.6053$9G2.3254@twister.southeast.rr.com>

That's what I asked. Thanks!
M-a-S

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in message news:bkd0rb$qb2$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
>
> "M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com>
>
> > I thought about the third module. It doesn't sound good.
> > I hoped there're some tricks with __dict__, frames and
> > other __...__ objects.
> >
>
> Well, there are some tricks ;-)
>
>
> myVariable='great surprise'
> import x
> .......
>
> "This is modul X"
> import sys
> print sys.modules['__main__'].myVariable
>
>
> But generally the namespace of a module is ... the module.
>
> Kindly
> Michael P





From mark at hahnca.com  Tue Sep 30 18:07:33 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:07:33 -0700
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064921380.21335.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <I8neb.4591$hp5.3169@fed1read04>

> They not only feel no need to document, they also feel no need to follow
ANN threads they start.

I apologize for the rudeness of my post.  Sometimes I am not the nice person
that I think I am and I surprise myself.

"POYEN OP Olivier (DCL)" <Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064921380.21335.python-list at python.org...


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Mark Hahn [mailto:mark at hahnca.com]
> Envoy? : mardi 30 septembre 2003 06:39
> ? : python-list at python.org
> Objet : Re: [ANN] pylint-0.2
>
>
> They not only feel no need to document, they also feel no
> need to follow ANN
> threads they start.
>

Or they might just live in France (as in logilab.FR), have a different time
schedule, and being in bed while you're posting that !
Or even not working today !
Or event not daily-reading c.l.p, but just fr.comp.lang.python.

As for the documentation, just go to logilab web site, as Peter H said.


--OPQ,
Long signature following....




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From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 23 07:47:49 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:47:49 +0200
Subject: Factory function to generate a named class
References: <3f702b3a$0$23594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <bkpbv7$9nj$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Derek Fountain wrote:

> Is there a way to generate an instance of a class given the class name at
> runtime? If so, what, in newbie terms, is it?

class FontController:
    def __init__(self, model):
        pass

class Model:
    pass

def getClass(classname, modulename="__main__"):
    return getattr(__import__(modulename, globals(), locals(), [classname]),
classname)

model = getClass("Model")()
print getClass("FontController")(model)

Should be fairly self-explanatory :-)

Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Sep  5 14:53:07 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 18:53:07 GMT
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <bjam2j$2lp$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:37:01 +0200, "Sophie All?on" <alleon at club-internet.fr> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>CONTEXT
>I do numerical simulation for which I have to process mesh. A mesh is made
>of
>triangle which are made of points.
>I want from this information to create edges and build triangle from edges
>rather
>than from points.
>
>PROBLEM
>An edge is shared by possibly more than one triangle.
>
>ALGORITHM
>
>have a triangle class  (made of 3 edges)
>have an edge   class   (made of 2 points and embeding a triangle list (those
>connected to the edge)
Is that a straigt line edge, or a concatenation of possibly non-co-linear triangle
edges? And does the direction imply anything, e.g., a counter-clock-wise edge walk
with surface to the left and outside to the right? (and up being defined as the direction
of the cross product of two successive edge vectors of the same triangle).

>
>for each triangle construct its edges but I have to check if the edge
>already exists
>
>for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
>string while I want it
>to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?
You can do it with points, with a couple of caveats:
Dicts don't have to have strings as keys. Numbers and tuples are ok as keys too.
So if you have an edge, you could represent it as ((x1,y1,z1), (x2,y2,z2)) and use that
as a key. unless you are differentiating edges according to direction (which can be very
useful for some purposes), you would want to normalize the point order one way or another, IWT.

Besides order, it is important to consider floating point accuracy when/if using them
as keys of part of tuple keys, because two different expressions for the same mathematical
value may be calculated with different roundoff, and can lead to a key error if both floats
are used in keys in a dict, expecting equivalence.

Once past the floating point FUD, you can consider whether it will really affect you or not
in the specifics of what you are doing. If you convert ascii string number literal representations
to float, those should map 1:1 to consistent nearest-available-floating-point values. If you then
use those unchanged in keys, you should be ok. OTOH, if e.g. you calculate some line/surface
intersection for an end point, or subdivide an edge, etc., there might be roundoff, and you'd
have to decide how to generate key values that will actually be equal (to each other or to converted
literals) when they're "equal" according to your rules of "close enough."

One way to deal with this is to use scaled integers instead of floats, and be careful
how/when you convert. Or rounding to a given precision may work also. For fine mesh graphic
end output, you may want to think about whether whether you are rounding in a way that gives
the same end image, independent of intermediate coordinate system translations. (E.g., rounding
signed relative local pixel dimensions of a figure before adding a center-of-figure pixel offset
might look different from just rounding the final all-positive pixel coordinates, especially if
amplified by Moire effects).

>
>Have you a better idea ?
>
I have to understand better first, and then it would only be a maybe ;-)

I think a lot depends on the topology of the surface your mesh covers,
and whether it varies in resolution (i.e., are some triangles subdivided
into smaller triangles), and how the edges of the whole and of regular subregions
are defined. I.e., what does the data represent, and how did it come into being?

E.g., a sphere can be covered with 60 triangles made five per pentagonal face of the
included docdecahedron, projected, and those 60 triangles can be regularly subdivided.
Implicit in that is that you could cook up an algorithm to walk the triangles by some
indexing scheme and/or map from indices to spatial info re triangles and the sphere.

For a flat rectangular space (or topological equivalent), you might index triangles
much more easily.

Once you have your model represented, what kinds of access walks will you need to do?
Will you be iterating over the entire set of triangles and wanting to access the
neighbors of each (in which case it should be cheap to find neighbors), or are you
doing something like making countour maps, or what? Designing with the future access
patterns in mind is likely to help in making the end use faster, IWT.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Sep  5 03:46:05 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:46:05 +0100
Subject: WELCOME to cygwin@cygwin.com
References: <mailman.1062729676.26922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pnkbeVA98DW$EwC2@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1062729676.26922.python-list at python.org>, cygwin-
help at cygwin.com writes
>Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
>cygwin at cygwin.com mailing list.
>
>Acknowledgment: I have added the address
>
>   python-list at python.org
>
>to the cygwin mailing list.
>
>Welcome to cygwin at cygwin.com!
.... wow if we can only get the cygwin thingy to subscribe to the
python-list we can really get an email storm :)
-- 
Robin Becker



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Sep  8 19:08:32 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:08:32 +1000
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD4D03@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> > From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> > > From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> > > > From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> > > > > From: Paul McNett [mailto:p at ulmcnett.com]
> > > > > 
> > > > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321112547/qid=1
> > > > > 
> 063059237/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-8213749-9028058?v=glance&s=books

Hmm - that URL doesn't look too good now ...

Tim Delaney




From waldbie at attglobal.net  Thu Sep 11 00:45:38 2003
From: waldbie at attglobal.net (Carl Waldbieser)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:45:38 -0700
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com> <3F5F83B1.48763F85@alcyone.com> <cg5vlvgorsi88elsn9ur5ueavpg27d7ui3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <lpQ7b.1147$G1.6248@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

I think you could still run into a problem here with aliasing.  For example:

    obj = Obj_Type ()
    x = obj

    obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
    obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
    obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()
    container.Add (ref obj) #rebinds obj to None
    #later...
    x.alter() #alters containers copy anyway

This kind o problem exists in other languages like C++, too.  The containers
in the C++ standard library copy elements to side-step these problems.  When
copying becomes expensive, pointers to elements are used instead, but since
you can have multiple pointers to the same object, you run the risk of
clobbering data in the container if you are not careful.

In practice, though, this type of behavior has rarely been a problem for me.

Carl Waldbieser


> The most compelling example I have is essentially the side-effect
> thing from my reply to Peter Ottens post. As an attempt to express it
> more clearly, there are times when you set up an object purely so that
> you can store it into a container...
>
>   obj = Obj_Type ()
>
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()
>
>   container.Add (obj)
>
> In many cases, the Add function will not take a copy because it seems
> pointless. The caller set up the object purely to store it in the
> container, and in most cases is going to discard its reference to the
> object immediately afterwards. But then there's always the possibility
> that the caller might carry on using that object. For instance...
>
>   obj = Obj_Type ()
>
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()
>
>   container.Add (obj)
>
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()
>
>   container.Add (obj)
>
> This probably wouldn't do what was expected - the 'slightly
> differently' call changed an object that is also being referenced from
> inside the container - an accidental side-effect.
>
> If a 'ref' parameter is used and the 'Add' function rebinds it to
> 'None', however, we get...
>
>   obj = Obj_Type ()
>
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()
>
>   container.Add (ref obj)
>
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()
>     #  exception here tells that something has gone wrong
>
>   container.Add (ref obj)
>
> Which quickly gets bugfixed to...
>
>   obj = Obj_Type ()
>
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()
>
>   container.Add_Copy (obj)
>
>   obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()
>     #  no exception as Add_Copy doesn't rebind the parameter
>
>   container.Add (ref obj)
>
>
> Then again, even in this case there are other ways. For instance...
>
>   builder = Builder ()
>
>   builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
>   builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
>   builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()
>
>   container.Add (builder.Build ())
>
>   builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()
>
>   container.Add (builder.Build ())
>
> In this case, the builder class can set a 'used' flag after the
> 'Build' call which tells it that it needs to make a copy before
> applying further changes. In that way, both unnecessary copies and
> accidental side-effects are avoided while keeping the intention clear
> (especially as this is basically one of the classic design patterns
> from Gamma et al - though I may be confusing Builder with Factory
> Method) and with no changes to Python.
>
> So my 'most compelling example' isn't compelling at all. Damn.
>
> I've been thinking on this for some hours now and still not come up
> with a more compelling example (or at least not one which can't be
> better handled a different way) so I guess the idea is a dud.
>
> Bet you never expected me to admit that so easy ;-)
>





From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Fri Sep  5 04:40:48 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:40:48 +0200
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com> <VUidncLV5oQd88qiU-KYvw@comcast.com> <bj7sr5$jd8$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bj9i3h$kbd$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Stephan Diehl wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
>> 
>> "Stephan Diehl" <stephan.diehl at gmx.net> wrote in message
>> news:bj7ots$48j$06$1 at news.t-online.com...
>>> Once in a while, I get bitten by the fact, that mutating list
>> methods such
>>> as 'append' or 'extend' return None instead of the (mutated) list
>> itself.
> 
> [...]
> 
>> 
>> 'Returners' could wrap no-return mutators with functions or
>> derived-class methods that do return the object, but I have never seen
>> anyone post a complete module that does so for, say, all list
>> mutators.
> 
> That's actually a nice idea. I might just do that.

o.k., the following short code would give you a list class, that returns
'self' when invoking any of the mutating methods.
The solution involves a metaclass and I wouldn't consider this code more as
an example than an industrial strength solution (for example, at the
moment, you couldn't overload any of these methods)
------------------------------------------------------------------
def wrapedmeth(classname,meth):
    def _meth(self,*argl,**argd):
        getattr(super(globals()[classname],self),meth)(*argl,**argd)
        return self

    return _meth

class ReturnMeta(type):
    def __new__(cls,classname,bases,classdict):
        wrap = classdict.get('return_self_super_methods')
        if wrap is not None:
            for method in wrap:
                classdict[method] = wrapedmeth(classname,meth)
        return super(ReturnMeta,cls).__new__(cls,classname,bases,classdict)

class mylist(list):
    __metaclass__ = ReturnMeta
    return_self_super_methods = ['append',
                           'extend',
                           'insert',
                           'remove',
                           'reverse',
                           'sort']


if __name__ == '__main__':
    print 'l = [1,2]'
    print 'mylist: print l.append(3)'
    l = mylist([1,2])
    print l.append(3)
    print 'list: print l.append(3)'
    l = [1,2]
    print l.append(3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

have fun

Stephan



From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep  1 18:46:16 2003
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:46:16 +0100
Subject: Structured writing to console, such as a table
References: <mailman.1062445143.10872.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k78sjfev.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

"Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix)" <Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com> writes:

> Ok, perhaps a question on a newbie level.
>
> I try to create a simple 'write to a console application' where all
> the items in a string do have a variable size:
> items = ["a", "bbbbbbbbb", "cc"]
> Well, actually, I need to print a table as simple text, nice lined
> up in a console. So:
>
>
> Item:       Value:     Another Value:
> ----------+----------+------------------
> a         | 1        | 2
> bbbbbbbbb | 2        | 17
> cc        | 3        | 5
>
> My hope was that somewhere in python land an existing module was
> waiting for me. A module that also prints lines, headers....
>
> Unfortunately, I can't find it. Books, Google...
> Before I reinvent this wheel... please give me some tips,
> references, examples...

This is going to sound unhelpful, but I suspect the problem is that
the problem is too simple - everyone *does* reinvent the wheel,
because it's faster than going to find a generic solution.

Having said that, I didn't manage to quickly write some code for you
:-)

The first question is, what does your data look like? From your
example, I'd say that you have a list of items

    items = ["a", "bbbbbbbbb", "cc"]

but I'm not sure how you get your values.

Let's assume that in fact you have a "list of rows" type of
representation:

    rows = [["a", 1, 2],
            ["bbbbbbbbb", 2, 17],
            ["cc", 3, 5]
           ]

This may or may not match your requirements, but you should be able to
either adapt my code or your data as needed.

The first problem is working out the column widths you need. That's
not difficult, just messy (because in some senses, the data is "the
wrong way round" - a list of coumns would be better for this step, but
worse later on).

    def column_widths(titles, rows):
        '''Calculate column widths for a "list of rows"'''

        # Initialise widths to have all columns zero width to start with
        widths = [len(str(title)) for title in titles]

        # Adjust the width to allow space for each row in turn
        for row in rows:
            widths = [max(w, len(str(item)))
                      for w, item in zip(widths, row)]

        return widths

That's a bit messy, so let's dissect it. I use list comprehensions a
lot here - if you don't know how they work, it's well worth studying
them.

We start by setting widths to fit the titles. We assume that all rows
have the same number of elements - I don't check for this.

Then, for each row, we adjust the widths to fit the items in that row.
The list comprehension goes through each column, and the new width of
that column is either the old width (if the new item fits already) or
the length of the new item (if it is the biggest so far).

For each item, we're calculating len(str(item)) which is the length of
the string representation of the item - ie, the space required on
screen for that item.

OK, that was the ugly bit - now we just format the results. This is
simple, but a little long winded.

    def format(titles, rows):
        "Format a table"

        # First calculate the column widths
        widths = column_widths(titles, rows)

        # Create the result as a list of lines - it's more flexible
        # than printing directly
        result = []

        # Title line first (add 3 spaces between colums)
        line = '   '.join([t.ljust(w) for t, w in zip(titles, widths)])
        result.append(line)

        # Separator line (add -+- between columns)
        line = '-+-'.join(['-' * w for w in widths])
        result.append(line)

        # Rows of data
        for row in rows:
            line = ' | '.join([item.ljust(w) for item, w in zip(row,  widths)])
            result.append(line)

        return result

Now you can do:

print "\n".join(format(titles, rows))

I hope this helps. As I say, the problem is often that matching the
algorithm to what you really want is harder than writing the code in
the first place, so don't be afraid to play with this (it's nearly
midnight, so I'm offering no guarantees that this code is correct :-))

Paul
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank



From ulope at gmx.de  Thu Sep 18 16:30:36 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:30:36 +0200
Subject: Join equivalent for tuples of non-strings?
References: <1a884f4a.0309181000.749eb8a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkd4ld$e324$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Peter L. Buschman" <plb at iotk.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1a884f4a.0309181000.749eb8a1 at posting.google.com...
> I'm trying to think in Python, but am stumped here...
>
> What is the equivalent for the following if you are dealing with a tuple
> of non-strings?
>
> >>> import string
> >>> foo = ( '1', '2', '3' )
> >>> string.join( foo, '.' )
> '1.2.3'
>
> With a tuple of integers, this fails with a traceback as below:
>
> >>> bar = ( 1, 2, 3 )
> >>> string.join( bar, '.' )
>

try:

foo = (1,2,3,4,5,6)
".".join([str(x) for x in foo])

HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de  Tue Sep  9 13:45:30 2003
From: martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de (Martin Schneider)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:45:30 +0200
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
References: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de><bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063106894.20701.python-list@python.org> <bjkkjp$jvkvt$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f5e0963.369221532@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bjl24i$kejrk$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>

> If you are gonna tweak the C you might as well tweak the
> Python too! (But not with a real python, they tweak back
> hard! :-)

I'll remember that :-)

Martin





From tmeador at miramar.com  Fri Sep 19 16:38:57 2003
From: tmeador at miramar.com (Tim)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 13:38:57 -0700
Subject: return codes from py2exe python script
Message-ID: <867286d8.0309191238.3759638e@posting.google.com>

Does anybody know how to get a return code or any errors from a python
script that has been made into a exe using py2exe?  Right now when I
run my script.exe it always returns 0 even if the script fails.



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 19:18:44 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 00:18:44 +0100
Subject: why is this failing?
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> <3F60E645.2501B9EE@engcorp.com> <3f60ea13$0$42053$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <87llsu6hij.fsf@pobox.com>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> In article <3F60E645.2501B9EE at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Don't use names of builtins and your life will be easier. :-)
> 
> And the easiest way to do that is to use an editor with a
> Python mode.  Make sure it shows builtins in a distinct color.
> You will then know immediately (while editing) when you
> accidentally redefine a builtin.

You wouldn't happen to know how to do this for python-mode?

emacs-illiterate-ly y'rs,


John



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From MMARTINEZ at CSREES.USDA.GOV  Mon Sep 22 08:03:09 2003
From: MMARTINEZ at CSREES.USDA.GOV (Martinez, Michael)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:03:09 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Re: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
Message-ID: <83EED274D3127740995A6B621B88F2E1DF7D2F@csrees-exchange.csrees.usda.gov>

I love Spambayes. I wouldn't trade it for any other app.

Michael Martinez
Linux System Administrator
ISTM/CSREES
United States Department of Agriculture

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 7:09 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Cc: spambayes at python.org
Subject: RE: [Spambayes] Re: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT

[William Trenker]
> ...
> I would also nominate Spambayes as Python App of the Year!

We're close enough to the end of 2003 that we had better count that vote
for
2004 too <wink>.

> Spambayes certainly is a showcase of the sophistication, and
> practicality, that can be achieved using Python 'out of the box'.

Those who helped with the early development were probably most impressed
by
the speed of development Python allowed:  the first implementation of
spambayes was conceived, written, and working all in one day.  It was
(of
course) much simpler then, had no real email interface apart from
sucking up
files containing messages, and we'll overlook that the Outlook addin
threatens to consume the rest of Mark Hammond's life.  Other than those,
it
went really fast <wink>.


_______________________________________________
Spambayes at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes
Check the FAQ before asking: http://spambayes.sf.net/faq.html




From edreamleo at charter.net  Tue Sep 30 05:20:49 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:20:49 -0500
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <gandreas-21AC09.14161229092003@news.mpls.visi.com> <vnh8uh5j8e3i44@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vniinnlp5ih45c@corp.supernews.com>

> In short, the following pattern appears like it will work in all my
modules:
>
> from leoGlobals import *
> app = leoProxy() # leoProxy defined in leoGlobals
> # Now the code can reference either app.x or app().x.

Actually, app = leoProxy() can be done in leoGlobals, so the pattern is
just:

from leoGlobals import *
# Now the code can reference either app.x or app().x.

I have installed the new code in leoGlobals.py and everything "just works".

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 05:48:35 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:48:35 GMT
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it> <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com> <bkvbb5$6mi$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <TXTcb.124120$hE5.4241274@news1.tin.it>

Dominic wrote:

> 
>>>I and Just canvassed widely at Europython, looking for people to
>>>suggest more use cases, and nobody came up with anything that stood
>>>up to examination beyond our basic use case of "debugging possibly
>>>buggy (nonterminating) code, in cases where we just can't run the
>>>possibly buggy code in the main thread and delegate a separate
>>>watchdog thread to the purpose of interrupting the main one"
> 
> One use case could be if you only want to use a limited number
> of threads for some reason.
> 
> Then you could interrupt a low priority task and reassign the
> thread to some more urgent task. Afterwards the old task could be
> resumed. To make this work you would have to make the code
> aware of those interrupts.

I don't think it works well: Python threads have no priorities,
so, even if you DID interrupt one thread that's working on a
"low-priority job" to feed it with a higher-priority one, OTHER
threads running low-priority jobs will happily keep stealing
CPU and other resources away from the allegedly "high-priority
job".  And if you're thinking of somehow "suspending" ALL the
threads currently deemed to be running "low-priority jobs", I
think the whole architecture sounds creaky and fragile.  I would
rather tweak (not anywhere as hard a job) module Queue to give
messages posted on Queue's a priority field; ensuring that not
ALL threads (in the pool that's peeling job requests off the
main "pending-jobs Queue") are simultaneously running long AND
low-priority jobs, so that one of them is going to respond soon
enough, is decently easy -- and you can add a global sempahore,
that high-priority jobs increment at their start and decrement
at their end, and low-priority jobs check periodically in their
main loops to ensure their work is suspended when any high-
priority task is running.


> While playing with the new feature I noticed that it
> takes a long time (>3 seconds) until the exception is thrown.
> In contrast to the possibility to interrupt the main thread
> with interrupt_main which seems not to be delayed.

Hmmmm... care to show exactly the code you've been trying?
I get EXACTLY opposite results, as follows...:


import time
import thread
import threadex

def saywhen():
    for x in xrange(100000):
        time.sleep(0.1)

def intemain():
    global when_sent
    when_sent = None
    time.sleep(1.0)
    when_sent = time.time()
    thread.interrupt_main()
    time.sleep(1.0)

im_delays = []
for i in range(10):
    tid = thread.start_new_thread(intemain, ())
    try:
        saywhen()
    except:
        when_received = time.time()
    im_delays.append(when_received - when_sent)

def get_interrupted():
    global when_received
    when_received = None
    try:
        saywhen()
    except:
        when_received = time.time()

it_delays = []
for i in range(10):
    tid = thread.start_new_thread(get_interrupted, ())
    time.sleep(1.0)
    when_sent = time.time()
    threadex.threadex(tid, KeyboardInterrupt)
    time.sleep(1.0)
    it_delays.append(when_received - when_sent)

main_id = thread.get_ident()
def intemain1():
    global when_sent
    when_sent = None
    time.sleep(1.0)
    when_sent = time.time()
    threadex.threadex(main_id, KeyboardInterrupt)
    time.sleep(1.0)

im1_delays = []
for i in range(10):
    tid = thread.start_new_thread(intemain1, ())
    try:
        saywhen()
    except:
        when_received = time.time()
    im1_delays.append(when_received - when_sent)


im_delays.sort()
im1_delays.sort()
it_delays.sort()
print 'IM:', im_delays
print 'IT:', it_delays
print 'IM1:', im1_delays




Module threadex is a tiny interface exposing as 'threadex'
the PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc function.  And the results on
my Linux (Mandrake 9.1) box are as follows...:


[alex at lancelot sae]$ python pai.py
IM: [2.4993209838867188, 2.4998600482940674, 2.4998999834060669,
2.4999450445175171, 2.4999510049819946, 2.4999560117721558,
2.4999659061431885, 2.499967098236084, 2.4999990463256836,
2.5000520944595337]
IT: [0.20004498958587646, 0.39922797679901123, 0.39999902248382568,
0.40000700950622559, 0.40000808238983154, 0.40002298355102539,
0.40002298355102539, 0.40002405643463135, 0.40003299713134766,
0.40004003047943115]
IM1: [0.10003900527954102, 0.39957892894744873, 0.40000700950622559,
0.40000796318054199, 0.40001499652862549, 0.40002000331878662,
0.40003204345703125, 0.40003299713134766, 0.40004301071166992,
0.40005004405975342]
[alex at lancelot sae]$

i.e., interrupt_main takes a very repeatable 2.5 seconds;
PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc typically 0.4 seconds, whether it's
going from main to secondary thread or viceversa, with occasional
"low peaks" of 0.1 or 0.2 seconds.  Of course, it's quite
possible that there may be something biased in my setup, or
it may be a platform issue.  But I'd be quite curious to
see the code you base your observation on.


Alex




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com  Mon Sep 22 04:26:13 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:26:13 +0200
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
References: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com> <LIAab.7544$9G2.6227@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkemib$bjr$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr> <OiLab.21316$x21.11005@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bkmb91$puh$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

M-a-S wrote:
> "Eric Brunel" <eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com> wrote in message news:bkemib$bjr$1 at news-reader2.wanadoo.fr...
> 
>>Sorry, but no you can't: the default is to open the file in text mode, and you
>>can change it with a 'b', but 't' has no meaning at all. BTW, 'b' also has no
>>meaning at all on all Unices: the so-called "binary" or "text" mode are the
>>same, i.e. what is read is what is in the file. Windows needs it only because of
>>its superfluous \r's at the end of each line.
>><...>
>>HTH
>>-- 
>>- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
>>PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com
> 
> 
> 
> The idea was to tell the humans that it's text. It won't hurt neither Unix nor Windows.
> I know that nobody cares, though.

Not only to tell humans: Windows automatically removes the '\r' at the end of 
each line when a file is opened in text mode. It won't happen in binary mode.

And I wish I could stop caring, but I occasionally run into problems just 
because of this behaviour, and I know I'm not the only one.
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Sep 22 11:31:35 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:31:35 -0700
Subject: None???
References: <EV6bb.1834$iT4.1283814@news1.news.adelphia.net> <m2he37549i.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net> <3F6D68AA.9070603@aon.at> <eppstein-AAC3F1.11134721092003@news.service.uci.edu> <4l4umv4kl82d8t5td29in26cfb57ctb6h0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-F636AC.08313522092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <4l4umv4kl82d8t5td29in26cfb57ctb6h0 at 4ax.com>,
 Tim Rowe <tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk> wrote:

> >Arguably, any code that uses / with integer arguments is now buggy, 
> >because it will produce different results in different Python versions.  
> >You should either use // (integer division) or force floating point 
> >division (e.g. by changing the expression to income*percent/100.0).
> 
> What's the behaviour of "from __future__ import division" on versions
> that are too old to know about the future of division?

A nice error message.
So that's another good way to go.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep  8 13:16:12 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:16:12 -0400
Subject: Ternary operator
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com> <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1063023193.11506.python-list@python.org> <4qznp862.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vlpec6e8ul9o0e@news.supernews.com>

"Paul Moore" <pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4qznp862.fsf at yahoo.co.uk...
> Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> writes:
>
> >>It seems to me that the majority did want some kind of ternary operator,
but
> >>the large number of options prevented any one from being the clear
winner. I
> >>would wager that if the BDFL had picked his favorite from any of the
most
> >>popular options and said, "Now vote yes or no on *this* syntax", he
would
> >>have seen that clear majority he was looking for.
>
> Actually, that's what Guido did do at first (IIRC). He proposed the
> "expr1 if cond else expr2" form. The *community* argued against this
> specific syntax, rather than concentrating on the semantics, and it
> was only then that the discussion fragmented into endless discussions
> over what syntax to choose.
>
> >>I suppose this is all water under the bridge now, since the PEP stated
that
> >>this was the community's one and only chance. I just can't help but
think
> >>that the voting system guaranteed the outcome--but it's Guido's language
and
> >>it was certainly his call to make.
>
> The voting system was designed by the community and so we can't blame
> anyone but ourselves for "rigging" the outcome...

I don't remember it that way. The way I remember it, it showed up one
day as a statement by someone that they were going to list all of the
suggestions so we could vote on it. There was some discussion of how
to vote, but before that I don't remember any discussion of structure.

It seems to me that the process was the typical "here's how I think it
should be done, and I'm willing to do all the work to make it happen,"
followed by a fair number of people not saying that they thought it was
a terminally stupid idea. You don't, after all, want to discourage
volunteers who actually want to work.

> > THANK YOU. Your analysis of the process brings me a sense of relief. I
> > was also confused and frustrated by its failure to deliver what
> > (obviously) many of us wanted.
>
> My feeling is that there is a majority who want a ternary operation
> (not including me, but what the heck) but that there is violent
> disagreement on the syntax.

There were also a lot of people who were fed up with the endless
debate, too.

The biggest difficulty, IMNSHO, was debating specific proposals
rather than debating constraints. If you debate constraints first, then
you can evaluate specific proposals against the constraints. That process
usually iterates to a conclusion rather swiftly.

However, I don't know how to make that shift in a public forum
such as c.l.py.

> > I was dismayed by the process being defined as "the community's one
> > and only chance" and then set up to fail.
>
> Well, I see it as Guido not really wanting to spend the time
> implementing a ternary operator. He offered to, in any case, if the
> community was in favour (and the PEP originally stated precisely what
> he was offering). But with the proviso "if you don't like this, I'm
> not going to offer again". I doubt he was surprised that the result
> was a lot of discussion over syntax, rather than an acceptance of the
> offer.
>
> The general history of this issue is one of endless discussion with no
> agreement. Maybe the majority would like the feature, but that same
> majority can't agree on syntax. The PEP just forced one more iteration
> of that process, and documented the result (lots of heated discussion,
> but no solid conclusion).
>
> Maybe it's a shame that Guido's original PEP wasn't preserved
> unaltered. What's there now doesn't capture the flavour of the
> original.

Agreed. There may be a copy floating around in someone's archives,
though. I'm not interested enough in assigning blame to go hunting,
we need a way to move forward that will get to a real agreement.

> Of course, all of this is only my recollection, and just as prone to
> being wrong as anyone else's...

Likewise.

John Roth
>
> Paul.
> -- 
> This signature intentionally left blank





From tenorman3 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 21:36:21 2003
From: tenorman3 at yahoo.com (Bob)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:36:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pickling/unpickling extensions types
Message-ID: <20030911013621.78119.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

I've read over section 3.14.5.2 of the doc about a
zillion times, and it still makes absolutely no sense
to me.  Can someone please explain it?

What I'd like to do is, basically, have the object be
pickled as None, since it represents an object in the
C world, and it doesn't make sense to pickle it at
all.  How can I do that, if at all?

In particular, what does this

"A callable object, which in the unpickling
environment must be either a class, a callable
registered as a ``safe constructor'' (see below), or
it must have an attribute __safe_for_unpickling__ with
a true value. Otherwise, an UnpicklingError will be
raised in the unpickling environment. Note that as
usual, the callable itself is pickled by name" 

mean?

__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 29 10:28:13 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 15:28:13 +0100
Subject: Google newsgroup "Unable to find thread" message?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309290617.799b800d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87u16v3c02.fsf@pobox.com>

steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg) writes:

> I use the newsgroup mainly via my Web browser and Google.  
> 
> Over the last few days, when I click on a link to a thread, I've been
> frequently getting the message "Unable to find thread."
> 
> Does anybody know what's going on?

No, but in the past I've found that you can often get the whole thread
by following a slightly different click path to the thread page (I
don't remember the details, sorry).

It has been happening for months.


John



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Sep  4 14:17:07 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 14:17:07 -0400
Subject: Quickie mail.python.org status
References: <727daa7e.0309031140.1af820b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj7vj3$gau$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <727daa7e.0309031140.1af820b2 at posting.google.com>,
Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>I noticed that python-related mail has been at best trickling in today,
>so took a quick peek at mail.python.org.  Since 4am today exim has
>rejected over 15,000 messages because they contained executable
>attachments or suspicious (sobig-style) subjects.  I'm sure that's nothing
>compared to sites like SourceForge or AOL, but it conspires to keep
>useful mail from flowing through that machine.

I'm now seeing some mail flowing, but it'll take quite a while to catch
up.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Mon Sep  8 17:38:50 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:38:50 GMT
Subject: enum in Python
Message-ID: <KF67b.33$fd2.25@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>

What is the best way to implement an equivalent of C's 'enum' type in
Python?

As a rank Python beginner I've used a dictionary, but presumably there is a
better way.

Thanks





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep  8 13:33:36 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:33:36 -0400
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
References: <mailman.1062982932.16437.python-list@python.org>
 <87fzj7cvbv.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <w1LX/kKkXohI092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

|> <tim at pollenation.net> wrote:
|> 1) it's an image

|mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) writes:
|> You keep writing this; not just to me, but on c.l.py too.  I can't quite
|> figure out what relevance you perceive this fact to have.

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote previously:
|I guess because people, seeing the .html file extension in the URL,
|assumed that resizing fonts and sensible scaling to your browser
|window should work (obviously, the .html extension is rather
|misleading).  In fact, you were one of those people, David, IIRC --

Kinda.  I *did* assume it was a real HTML page when I first looked at it
(I tried clicking on the links).  But I realized it was an image before
I posted anything.

But I was mistaken about the sort of image it was.  I assumed Parkin had
written some HTML (maybe with some tool), then taken a screenshot of
that as rendered in some browser.  Specifically, I imagined that the
underlying HTML had fixed pixel-based "width=" attributes for those
boxes/tables.  In retrospect, the assumption about pixel-based widths
wouldn't actually follow from the idea it was a screenshot.

However, that's all moot apparently, since the picture seems to have
been drawn directly in some graphics application, without any HTML
having ever been created.  It certainly seems like a weird approach to
me; it also makes the question of whether pixel- or percentage-based
widths were used meaningless.

|> I *am* probably the most widely read writer on Python topics

|So, as you say, we're *definitely* not trying to sell Python to *you*,
|David.  <wink>

No... my point was more that I am already in the business of trying to
"sell" Python, in some sense.  I write articles and books (well, one so
far) in part to encourage new developers to select Python, versus some
other language/technology.

Btw. In my remark (which I wrote privately to Parkin, but posted after
he posted a response that quoted mine), I think I failed to give proper
respects to my excellent colleagues Cameron Laird and Uche Ogbuji, both
of whom are also very widely read with similar articles to mine.  I only
claim "most" because Cameron and Uche--being smarter than I--are a bit
less narrow in what they cover (i.e. more outside of Python).

Yours, David...

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From stacom at stacom-software.de  Mon Sep 15 08:39:47 2003
From: stacom at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:39:47 +0200
Subject: distributing a standalone python app. under Linux
Message-ID: <bk4bul$o92at$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hallo alltogether,

under windows, the py2exe is first choice, but has anybody done it under Linux ? 
My first try with Installer

	http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install5_intro.html

was not sucessfull. Any hints or help is welcome.

Alexander




From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep 11 10:29:51 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:29:51 +0200
Subject: os.listdir
References: <HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br> <mailman.1063171515.17609.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjq102$m21$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Graham Fawcett" <fawcett at teksavvy.com

> I'm willing to be wrong twice, honestly I am! But I'm pretty sure it's
> constant time. B-tree searches are log2(n), but dicts aren't trees.
>
> Can't find a real reference, but the Timbot spoke here:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-August/016800.html
>
> If I'm wrong on this one, I'll wear the Python Dunce Cap for a week,
> while repeating my corrected lessons!
>
I am pretty sure you will not have to! It is generally very difficult to
compute the mean access time to a hash. It totally depends on the size of
the internal hash table allocated as to the number of elements you store
there. In Perl there is trick to manipulate that (i.e. to increase it
appropriately when you expect e.g. some 100.000 entries). I don't know
whether this is possible in (C)Python, according to which algorithm the
initial size is computed, and when or if the table is reconfigured (which
would be a major undertaking btw). Any info someone?

Apart from that, you will generally find the value to your key with the
first access if the table is decently dimensioned.

Kindly
Michael P





From overdrive_ss at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 17:37:53 2003
From: overdrive_ss at yahoo.com (Todd Johnson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:37:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: General Password questions
In-Reply-To: <20030824115159.29723.73112.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20030922213753.10203.qmail@web41215.mail.yahoo.com>

I am creating a dialog in wxPython for log in
purposes. Basically when the user clicks the ok
button, the dialog box saves the user name and
password as class attributes. Then as long as the
dialog exists calling MyDialog.GetUserName() and
MyDialog.GetPassword() returns them. This seems
insecure to me. Is there a better way to go about this
or is it safe as long as I destroy the dialog as soon
as I am done with it?

On a similar note, I want to save the password to a
file. How do I encrypt the password? I assume straight
binary is too easy to reverse engineer though my
program isn't really saving any vital information so
it may be acceptable. Any ideas or links would be very
appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Todd A. Johnson

__________________________________
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http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From lefevrol at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 10:27:51 2003
From: lefevrol at yahoo.com (Olivier Lefevre)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 07:27:51 -0700
Subject: Invisible function attributes
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com> <87he3tfopa.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <51809ae4.0309040627.28d7a075@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all those who replied.

> ...what I'm guessing you haven't figured out yet is that everything
> works like this in Python.

Very possibly. I am coming to python from Java and I want to investigate
the weird stuff precisely because either it's a one-off (in which case
I'll make a note to myself to ignore it and not use it) or it holds the
key to what is specific about the language. I seem to have hit pay dirt
with this one ;-)

Nudged by the dot syntax, I was thinking of this function attribute as
if it were a sort of class member (i.e., pretending for a while this
function is a class) and, since functions can't have instances, treating
it as a sort of static member of the function, which should be available
as soon as declared. Obviously I got it all wrong. Instead, they work
like local variables except that they "persist" after the function has
exited. That still feels weird to me. What are they used for? Give me
a compelling reason to have such a beast in the language.

OTOH, does this behaviour have anything to do with so-called "futures"?

-- O.L.



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 06:07:17 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:07:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Could somebody please explain what is happening ....
References: <3f657f95$0$10968$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns93F76FC33687Aduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in
news:3f657f95$0$10968$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk: 

> I have been reading quite a lot of Python source code recently and I
> have come across a particular construct which I don't understand. I
> would be grateful if somebody could explain the reason for including
> the following lines of code. I have seen it only at the beginning of a
> module:- 
> 
> global sys
> import sys
> 
> global os
> import os
> 
> ....
> ....
> 
> I know what global means and I know what import means but what is the
> reason for making an imported module global?

None whatsoever. This isn't a construct used by anyone who knows what the 
global statement does: outside a function global has precisely no effect.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Sep 16 15:04:50 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:04:50 +0200
Subject: None, False, True
In-Reply-To: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f675ecd$0$97184$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

M-a-S wrote:

> Can anybody explain this:
> 
> Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>None = 3
> 
> <stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
> 
>>>>False = 4
>>>>True = 5
>>>>
>>>>None, False, True
> 
> (3, 4, 5)

Yes. You assign new values to the objects None, False and True. You then 
print out those values in a tuple.

What's not to understand?

But for others reading your programme you might be better of to keep 
them their normal values.


regards Max M




From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Mon Sep 29 11:53:41 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:53:41 +0100
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
In-Reply-To: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
References: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bl9kjh$i2q$1@sea.gmane.org>

Daniel Klein wrote:

> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
> looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
> methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.
> 
> I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
> it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.
> 
> This is something I got use to in Smalltalk and have found it quite
> useful when working on several methods that work closely together.
> 
> Daniel Klein

No one else has mentioned it, but Vim does this too. Just type ":split". 
  I believe Vim 6 has support for horizontal or vertical splits as well.

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Fri Sep 26 18:17:49 2003
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 15:17:49 -0700
Subject: Newbie: Changing a string to a class attribute.
References: <33fbf9ec.0309241210.7acfddb9@posting.google.com> <21064255.0309251227.76336087@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064588380.4062.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21064255.0309261417.3eb19a66@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064588380.4062.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 01:27:24PM -0700, Peter Abel wrote:
> > >>> def exec_method(object, method):
> > ... 	eval('object.'+method) ()
> 
> Why not write
>     def exec_method(object, method):
>         getattr(object, method)()
> no nasty 'eval' there, thank goodness.
> 
> Jeff

It's okay.
Seems to be clearer.

Peter



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 00:49:42 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:49:42 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <m2eky8dtny.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <GhQbb.196$eB.92@twister.southeast.rr.com>

> > Some more looping thoughts - this time on integer for loops...

I guess this should be a matter of optimization. Why don't the Python
compiler recognize 'for <var> in [x]range(<from>,<till>):'? It should be
pretty easy. Microsoft does marvels optimizing loops in C. Why an open
source project like Python can't do it?

M-a-S





From rune.hansen at viventus.no  Sat Sep 27 04:05:55 2003
From: rune.hansen at viventus.no (Rune Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:05:55 +0200
Subject: unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
Message-ID: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no>

Hi,
I've got the string "Gratis ?l",or in english:"Free beer",  I know there 
is no such thing but...

Python 2.3 (#1, Aug  1 2003, 15:23:03)
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> unicode("Gratis ?l","iso-8859-1")
u'Gratis \xf8l'
 >>>ord("\xf8")
248

What I need is the converted string to read u'Gratis \248l' (*
How do I do this without going through each and every character of the 
string?
(not that I have figgured out how to do that right either)

regards

/rune
*) I need to communicate with a telnet interface that only accepts 
accented characters as unicode decimals




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 25 12:47:14 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:47:14 +0200
Subject: Snakeoil alert (was Re: newbie script)
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f72eb7c$0$29964$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> <bkuvdk$qpf$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bkv4vv$6tj$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkv68t$t30$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

>> However, I have noticed that when I copy and paste from KNode 7.2 using
>> Strg+C/Strg+V instead of the middle mouse button, all '\xa0' are
>> magically converted back to old '\x20' space characters.
> 
> Sorry, I have tried to reproduce the behaviour stated above and was not
> able to reproduce it. So whatever I did differently, it was not the copy
> and paste method :(

The version that worked was copied from the article *source* window while
the '\xa0'-polluted variant came from the article *viewer*.

(hope I'm having it right this time and KNode is not fooling me again...)

Peter



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 15:08:28 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 13:08:28 -0600
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjfvnh$mkb$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Tim Parkin wrote:

> Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it's a
> proposal and a work in progress. As constructive comments go the only
> feedback I have gathered is that the fonts are too small and the
> contrast is
> a little low. I've adjusted contrast on key elements and also increased
> the
> font size. These pages are here :
> 
> http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2.html
> http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior-2.html

A few suggestions:

- several (including myself) were thrown off-course by the fact that the posted
'site' was really just a screenshot, not really a live mockup (the word mockup
tends to be used for junk-filled, but otherwise structurally valid sites rather
than a graphical screenshot).  I suggest you make an actual html mockup so that
everyone can actually test how fonts scale in their own browsers.  Viewing
_any_ screenshot in my laptop's 1600x1200 screen is painful, because the fonts
are microscopic.  But a real html (even if the text it's filled with is junk),
I can judge:  I have my font sizes set in mozilla for readability, and it will
be immediately obvious whether there are layout assumptions in the site which
break at these resolutions.

I am sure you'll get far better feedback with such a mockup site being
accessible for the community to view.

- I'm not sure I fall for the double-colored 'python' word. The two tones
generate a mental split 'py-thon', which is, at least to me, rather unpleasant. 
Keep in mind that many things in the python community have a py pre/post-pended
which would be more reasonable to break: pyexpect, scipy, numpy,... In all
those cases, the separated 'py' tends to associate the 'python' part with the
rest (expect, scientific computing, numerical work, etc).  

But 'thon' is nothing by itself, so the split is useless, and creates an
artificial an unnecessary disruption in the reading flow.  It feels like a
clear case of graphical glitz done for its own sake, not at the service of
function.

Ant that is the ONE principle that the site should respect: ANY graphical
enhancement should always serve, never sacrifice, function.

- Contrast: even the newer screenshots feel very low contrast.  Blue on grey
isn't particularly readable.  But perhaps when I view the real html with normal
font sizes, it will look better.  That's why you really need to post a readable
html site, not a png:  it's almost impossible for anyone but you to properly
judge the site with graphical screenshots.


- More content:  why limit the front page to have so little in it?  It feels
like it was designed to fit 100% into an 800x600 window.  I personally feel
that a techincal website is ok with having the front page include some more
stuff further down.  I can use my scroll wheel to go down, but I hate having to
click for separate pages for everything.  I know it's a fine line, and you
don't want the main page to be overly long, but I feel that the current mockup
is unnecessarily short.


And if you feel like people are being overly harsh, don't worry.  It's usenet
after all :)  But also keep in mind that you're proposing touching the _main_
python.org website, so don't expect the entire community just to go with
whatever you propose.  In case you are new to this environment, go read some of
the discussions on PEP-308 for a feel of how hot things can get when you want
to touch core things.

In the end, this is actually a good thing:  it means that any idea which finally
survives the beating will be pretty good.  Think of a very harsh, very
darwinian selection system :)

Best regards, and good luck with the work.

Fernando.



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Sep  2 17:35:31 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:35:31 +1000
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD454A@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Terry Reedy [mailto:tjreedy at udel.edu]
> 
> "Stefan Fleiter" <stefan.fleiter at web.de> wrote in message
> news:bj2nv5$hna$1 at news.web.de...
> 
> > under Python 2.2.2:
> >
> >  >>> s = slice(None,5,None)
> >  >>> hash(s)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > TypeError: unhashable type
> >  >>> s.__hash__()
> > 136775584
> >
> > Can anybody explain this?
> 
> It looks like a bug.  Extended slices were added for use by Numerical
> Python.  It may never have tried to hash them or only done so only
> through the C equivavlent of s.__hash__.  Extended slicing of
> sequences was, I believe, only added in 2.3.

Looks like a bug to me too. Stefan, please raise a bug report on Sourceforge (or it will get lost). Preferably add a patch and test suite ;)

Tim Delaney




From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Wed Sep  3 17:07:10 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:07:10 +0200
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <87n0dmj82w.fsf@flibuste.net>
 <877k4q6jj1.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <87ekyxinsx.fsf@flibuste.net>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> Wilk <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> writes:
>
>> ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses) writes:
> [...]
>> An solution is to make a web application and use a tiny browser like
>> kmeleon.
>
> Or MSIE, possibly using HTA.

What is HTA ? I thought about an HTTPServer that could work with any
browser.

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From donald.welch.nospam at hp.com  Thu Sep  4 11:11:57 2003
From: donald.welch.nospam at hp.com (djw)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:11:57 -0700
Subject: Where to post useful code
References: <2e1f6497.0309040646.3dcce9fb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f575667@usenet01.boi.hp.com>

RichB wrote:

> Howdy all,
> 
> I've written a few scripts that might be very useful to small groups
> of people (i.e. extracting time stamps from pictures taken with Sony
> digital cameras).
> I don't want to start sourceforge projects or anything big like that.
> I just want to make some stuff available. Where can I post/upload my
> stuff?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> RichB

Try here:

http://www.uselesspython.com/

-Don



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep 15 17:42:11 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 23:42:11 +0200
Subject: _ssl.so build problems on Solaris 8 for 2.3
References: <mailman.1063659200.574.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3u17dwwy4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> Is distutils missing some libraries or have I hosed the OpenSSL installation
> somehow?

The latter. You must make sure that the library you link with is
position-independent, or else you must build _ssl as a builtin module
(i.e. through Modules/Setup, as non-shared).

Regards,
Martin



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Tue Sep 16 13:30:57 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:30:57 -0700
Subject: list of lists
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de> <bk4k46$ort$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bk6gn4$57m$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <bk7hb7$pt6pp$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Tom wrote:

> Hi guys,
> 
> thanks to everyone.
> My mistake was that I had no idea that writing [][] NEXT to each
> other goes into depth. I always tried different varieties of [[]]
> to get into the deeper lists!
> Thanks again.

It's a simple concept, once you grasp it, but for those new to
Python, it may be worth emphasizing -- You can concatenate
operators (to the right, at least) and these operators will
operate on the run-time value produced by the expression
to which they are applied.  For example (read from bottom up):


    getArray()[3].formatter()
       ^    ^  ^ ^          ^
       |    |  | |          |
       |    |  | |          +--- (5) call function retrieved from
       |    |  | |                   attribute
       |    |  | +-------------- (4) access attribute of object indexed
       |    |  |                     from array
       |    |  +---------------- (3) index element of array returned by
       |    |                        function call
       |    +------------------- (2) call function retrieved from name
       |                             binding
       +------------------------ (1) retrieve value bound to variable


It is also worth thinking about what is meant by saying that this
evaluation is *dynamic*.  For example, if the object returned by
the function call to getArray (above) is not indexable, then the []
operator will fail.

And, the only limiting factor is confusion.

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From ivoras at fer.hr  Tue Sep 16 12:51:38 2003
From: ivoras at fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:51:38 +0200
Subject: tuples vs lists
Message-ID: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Are there any performance/size differences between using tuples and using
lists?


-- 
-- 
Every sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology
   - Arthur C Anticlarke





From uj797 at victoria.tc.ca  Fri Sep 26 15:56:06 2003
From: uj797 at victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 11:56:06 -0800
Subject: Explaining how a (Mind) program works
References: <3LOdnYcq9oVxiOmiU-KYuA@metrocast.net>
Message-ID: <3f748bc6@news.victoria.tc.ca>

"Bill Modlin" <modlin1 at metrocast.net> wrote on Fri, 26 Sep 2003: 
<snip>
>>> If I wanted to explain how one of my programs worked
>>> I would not give someone a print out of the code. 
>>> First I would explain it in higher level (folk psychology?) 
>>> terms and then explain how I embodied these ideas in actual code.
 
>> I'm not sure why - especially if the person you're explaining it to
>> is a programmer and knows the language.
BM:
> For the same reason that all good programs are liberally annotated
> with comments.  Programming languages are for controlling computers,
> not for communicating with people.  It is laborious and error prone
> to attempt to discover the purpose of an algorithm implemented by
> a bit of code just by inspecting that code.
ATM:
Nevertheless the original source code has to be made available, e.g.
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/jsaimind.html -- AI Mind in JavaScript;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html -- Mind.Forth PD AI.

BM:
> This is true even for the original author of the code.
> Code that seemed crystal clear and obvious at the time
> you wrote it is often indecipherable when a year later
> you are called upon to adjust or fix it in some fashion.

ATM:
The factoring of Forth and the hierarchy of objects help here,
plus liberal comments and statements at the end of each Mind-
Module explaining to what other Module program-flow returns:
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/progman.html -- Modules.

BM: 
> Of course, the extensional function of each line of code is obvious
> to anyone who knows the language.  There is no mystery in a line of
> code that says to increment the value of some variable by two:
> it says exactly what is to happen.  [...]

> Literal quoting of code is sometimes a useful adjunct to understanding
> of function.  We all generally like to have actual source to work with.

Yes, and so the AI4U (AI For Your) textbook of artificial intelligence at
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?ISBN=0595259227 
contains a full source-code listing of the AI Mind-1.1 in MSIE JavaScript.
On September 24, 2003, a rather mean-spirited reviewer at B&N, hiding 
behind anonymity, complained that "This book is not really a textbook 
because it explains nothing. It rather is a collection of 'modules' 
which the author expects the reader to implement" -- without pointing out
that the AI Mind modules are already implemented at the end of the book.

Now this author is indeed trying to get Minds coded in XYZ languages:
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/cpp.html -- C++ with new AI code;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/java.html -- see Mind.JAVA #1 & #2;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/lisp.html -- Lisp AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/perl.html -- first Perl module;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/prolog.html -- Prolog AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/python.html -- Python AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/ruby.html -- Ruby AI Blog (OO AI);
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/scheme.html -- Scheme AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/vb.html -- see "Mind.VB #001" link.

BM:
> But it is only an adjunct: the necessary ingredient for understanding
> of non-trivial function is explanation of the principles of operation
> in human-interpretable language.

ATM:
I have created every conceivable instrument of explaining the AI Mind.
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/acm.html is Steps to DIY AI.
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/standard.html -- AI Standards.
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/variable.html -- AI Variables.

BM:
> Given the code one may never understand what it is for. 

ATM:
Recently I have been meeting in person with an incognito engineer
who has volunteered to attempt to translate (port) Mind.Forth into
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/aicppsrc.html AI C++ Source Code.

BM:
> Given an understandable explanation of just what is to be done

ATM:
Nothing beats having a one-on-one interactive discussion of
what is to be done to code AI and how to do it.  That optimal
option is why I have a dreamworld fantasy of hiring out to CS
departments and AI labs to have my primitive but AI-coding
brain picked clean and dry of any contribution I make to AI.

> and how to do it, any programmer can produce new code
> for a function readily enough:  having an actual worked out
> version to go by is a dispensable luxury. [...]

A.T. Murray
-- 
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/python.html -- Python AI Weblog
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595654371/ -- AI Textbook;
http://www.sl4.org/archive/0205/3829.html -- Goertzel on Mentifex;
http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/307824.307853 -- ACM SIGPLAN Mind.Forth



From cnetzer at sonic.net  Fri Sep 26 15:26:47 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:26:47 -0700
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
In-Reply-To: <5L%cb.13662$yD1.1524835@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
	 <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
	 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
	 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
	 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
	 <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com>
	 <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu>
	 <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951@news20.bellglobal.com>
	 <eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003@news.service.uci.edu>
	 <5L%cb.13662$yD1.1524835@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <1064604407.1708.21.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 11:42, Sean Ross wrote:

> > I was questioning the feasibility of the implied semantics.
> 
> Fine. Take it up with the person who proposed the idea.

You proposed it (hear me out).  You are missing David's point.  In
addition to whatever semantics a general reverse iterator might have, he
is saying that the itertools iterators have an implied additional
semantic of not (necessarily) needing to fully expand an iterable in
memory to operate on it, as a general ireverse() would probably have to
do.  So, having ireverse potentially use up VAST quantities of memory,
in order to work, doesn't quite fit into the itertools philosophy.

That is the point he is making, and it is a specific comment on your (I
believe; others have probably proposed it as well) suggestion of an
ireverse() in itertools.

Now, my response to David's point is that currently, cycle() may also
require enough extra storage to remember an entire iterated sequence, so
the itertools philosophy is not a hard rule.  Still, ireverse() would
imply some real devilry under the covers...

-- 
Chad Netzer





From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 15 10:58:46 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:58:46 +0200
Subject: list of lists
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <bk4k46$ort$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Tom wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have a list that consists of lists.
> E.g. T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
> Is there a way to address the a specific component in the "inner" list
> directly?
> E.g. right now I want to get the second value of the first list.
> Unfortunately I have to save it to a variable first and then read it.
> a = T[0]
> print a[1]
> 
> That kind of sucks, becaus I have to read a lot of values from a lot of
> lists! :-(
> Is there a faster way than my saving it to a "help variable" first?
> 
> Thanks folks!!
> 
> Regards, Tom

Your example rather than your problem specification suggests that you want
them all. If I'm guessing right:

def flatten(lol):
    for lst in lol:
        for item in lst:
            yield item

T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]

for item in flatten(T):
   print item

Indices seem to be a dying breed :-)

Peter



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 04:44:19 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:44:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: os.listdir
References: <HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br> <mailman.1063171515.17609.python-list@python.org> <bjq102$m21$03$1@news.t-online.com> <Xns93F3A4DD43D3Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <wSmdnYp3_9zFSf2iU-KYvA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F4629B3A4A0duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in news:wSmdnYp3_9zFSf2iU-
KYvA at comcast.com:

> 
> "Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
>> In C Python, all dictionaries have an initial size of 8 elements.
> There is
>> no way to override this (except recompiling!)
> 
> In you initialize a dict from a list of, say, 1000 (key,value) pairs,
> does it really disregard list size?  at least after first 2/3rds
> fillup?
> 
Yes. Very roughly speaking dict.__init__ looks like this (except in C):

 def __init__(self, dict, **kw):
    	if hasattr(dict, 'keys'):
    	    	self.update(dict)
     else:
    	    	for item in iter(dict):
               fast = tuple_or_list(item)
               assert len(fast)==2
               self[fast[0]] = fast[1]

The important point being that the code accepts an iterator rather than a 
list, so it doesn't know how many items will be returned. Of course there 
is nothing to stop someone adding a check whether the argument is really a 
list, and if so preallocating the size, but someone would have to evaluate 
whether the increased complexity, and longer runtime for smaller 
dictionaries justified the gain.

There's another twist to this:

   d = dict(aList)

At some point you have to create 'aList', and that too will start off small 
and double in size as it grows.

Even if you just write a constant dictionary:

   d = { 1:1, 2:2 }

the bytecode for this creates an empty dictionary, then evaluates each key, 
value pair and stores it in the dictionary.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Sep  5 21:48:48 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 01:48:48 GMT
Subject: Comparing objects - is there a maximum object?
References: <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755@posting.google.com> <bj84rl$j2c$07$4@news.t-online.com> <1SN5b.8786$tw6.4739@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <m3ekywch7s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <42b6b.860$Yt.335@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Martin v. L?wis:
> No, this would not be used. cmp(a,b) == -cmp(b,a)

True.  Unlike + and *, cmp is communitive.

Here's the results of some instrumentation under 2.3.

>>> class Max:
...    def __getattr__(self, name):
...       print "Looking for", name
...       if name == "__cmp__":
...          return lambda other: 1
...       raise AttributeError(name)
...
>>> data = [Max(), 0, 1, 2, 3]
>>> data.sort()
Looking for __gt__
Looking for __coerce__
Looking for __cmp__
Looking for __gt__
Looking for __coerce__
Looking for __cmp__
Looking for __gt__
Looking for __coerce__
Looking for __cmp__
Looking for __gt__
Looking for __coerce__
Looking for __cmp__
>>> random.shuffle(data); data.sort(); data
Looking for __lt__
Looking for __coerce__
Looking for __cmp__
Looking for __repr__
[0, 1, 2, 3, <__main__.Max instance at 0x013D8C88>]

Not an __rcmp__ in the mix.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 04:26:48 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 08:26:48 GMT
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <cNX5b.16332$hE5.588360@news1.tin.it>

Sophie All?on wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> CONTEXT
> I do numerical simulation for which I have to process mesh. A mesh is made
> of triangle which are made of points.
> I want from this information to create edges and build triangle from edges
> rather than from points.
> 
> PROBLEM
> An edge is shared by possibly more than one triangle.
> 
> ALGORITHM
> have a triangle class  (made of 3 edges)
> have an edge   class   (made of 2 points and embeding a triangle list
> (those connected to the edge)


OK, so, say for example (for 2-D meshes):

import operator

class Point(tuple):
    """ 
        a convenience class Point, basically just a 2-items (x,y) tuple
        with handy constructor, accessors, representation
    """
    __slots__ = ()
    def __new__(cls, x, y):
        # assert operator.isNumberType(x) and operator.isNumberType(y)
        return tuple.__new__(cls, (x,y))
    def getx(self): return self[0]
    def gety(self): return self[1]
    x = property(getx)
    y = property(gety)
    def __repr__(self): return "Point(%r,%r)" % self


class Edge(tuple):
    """
        basically a 2-items tuple of points (NB: sorted, since we do
        NOT deal with DIRECTED edges here!!!) with convenience
        constructor, accessors, representation, + list of triangles
    """
    def __new__(cls, p1, p2):
        pts = [Point(*p1), Point(*p2)]
        pts.sort()
        return tuple.__new__(cls, pts)
    def __init__(self, p1, p2):
        self.triangles = []
    def __repr__(self):
        return 'Edge((%r,%r),(%r,%r))' % (self[0]+self[1])

The Triangle class may of course be made along very similar lines.

A slightly more efficient representation of Edge might use containment
of and delegation to tuple rather than inheriting from it (problem is
that inheriting from tuple impedes using a non-empty __slots__, so in
this code each Edge instance carries around an instance dictionary).

An even more clever approach might be to keep the edge->triangle data
NOT as per-instance data of edges but as a class-level attribute and
use a property for edge.triangles access, but that would violate the
explicit specs you give for the edge class.


> for each triangle construct its edges but I have to check if the edge
> already exists
> 
> for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
> string while I want it
> to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?
> 
> Have you a better idea ?

Strings just don't enter the picture here: edges are perfectly
acceptable keys into dictionaries, since they ARE tuples.

I do think that not having each edge 'embeding a triangle list',
as you put it, is an even better idea.  But, although a bit more
complicated and less efficient, your idea can also work fine.
And, yes, of course you need a dictionary (in fact that is why
it's better to not ALSO have the triangle list IN the edge
instance -- it might as well be in the dictionary anyway... !!!).


Alex




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Mon Sep 15 16:28:06 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:28:06 -0700
Subject: irritating problem
In-Reply-To: <20030915150042.22749.00001062@mb-m23.aol.com>
References: <20030915150042.22749.00001062@mb-m23.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030915202806.GK21288@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Park997 (park997 at aol.comnotospam):
> Hi,
> 
> I have a script that runs correctly in IDLE, runs correctly when
> invoked in the Command Prompt (Win XP), runs correctly from Komodo,
> but flashes a black box too fast to see when the icon is double
> clicked and produces no output. There are no error meassages from
> any of the methods that produce output. All of the other modules in
> the same directory (these are imported to the problem module) work
> correctly in any start mode.

It would be useful to know specifically what output you are expecting
versus what output you are getting.

If it's flashing the box and disappearing, it's conceivable that you
could change the properties such that the cmd window doesn't disappear
after the program completes, right?

Thanks,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts                        "I think doorways are sexist."
<geoff at gerrietts net>                           --Jayson Lockwood




From john.abel at pa.press.net  Sat Sep 20 08:28:53 2003
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:28:53 +0100
Subject: Help Compiling 64bit Python
In-Reply-To: <m3brtf3dhp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1064055636.13785.python-list@python.org> <m3brtf3dhp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F6C4805.5090108@pa.press.net>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

>John Abel <john.abel at pa.press.net> writes:
>
>  
>
>>c++   -o python \
>>                Modules/python.o \
>>                libpython2.3.a -lresolv -lsocket -lnsl -lrt -ldl
>>-lpthread   -lm
>>ld: fatal: file Modules/python.o: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
>>ld: fatal: File processing errors. No output written to python
>>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>>make: *** [python] Error 1
>>
>>I'd be very grateful for any pointers.
>>    
>>
>
>You need to arrange to use the -m options in the linker line as well.
>
>Looking at the generated Makefile will tell you where to best insert
>these options.
>
>Regards,
>Martin
>  
>
I seem to be missing something really obvious here.  I've modified the 
Makefile so it looks like this:

CONFIG_ARGS=     'CC=gcc -mcpu=v9 -m64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE=1' 
'LDFLAGS=-mcpu=v9 -m64'

ran the make, and it still comes up with the same error.  I've even 
tried running it with LDFLAGS=-64, with the same result.

Regards

John





From mk at net.mail.penguinista  Mon Sep  1 10:32:01 2003
From: mk at net.mail.penguinista (=?UTF-8?B?0LTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCzLg==?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:32:01 +0200
Subject: ANN: Python for arm-linux feed
References: <biqbhg$c04ej$1@ID-192111.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f535861@news.mt.net.mk>


> My feed @ http://opie.net.wox.org/python has been updated.
> 
> Highlights:
> 
>  - Python 2.3
>  - PyQt 3.8
>  - PyXML 0.8.3
>  - PySQLite 0.4.3

Cool, 
though I already have python 2.3 and PyQT from the riverbank web-site I
think I'm gonna install your packages instead, because you have more
packages...

BTW I was testing some scripts with PyQT on my Ipaq/Opie/Familar. On my
Desktop the script runs fine and it acquires KDE's look-and-feel, but on
the IPAQ it shows in the generic QT/E look-and-feel - it doesn't acquire
the general OPIE look.. Would you know why is that?

Here's the script:

import sys
from qt import *

class HelloButton(QPushButton):

    def __init__(self, *args):
        QPushButton.__init__(self, *args)
        self.setText("Hello World")
        self.connect(self, SIGNAL("clicked()"), self.my_func)
    def my_func(self):
        t = str(self.text()) + "!"
        self.setText(t)

class HelloWindow(QMainWindow):

    def __init__(self, *args):
        QMainWindow.__init__(self, *args)
        button=HelloButton(self)
        self.setCentralWidget(button)

def main(args):
    app=QApplication(args)
    win=HelloWindow()
    win.show()
    app.connect(app, SIGNAL("lastWindowClosed()"),
                app, SLOT("quit()"))
    app.exec_loop()

if __name__=="__main__":
    main(sys.argv)


-- 
??????                                  (jabberID:damjan at bagra.net.mk)

                      Loose bits sink chips.



From brucedickey at micron.com  Mon Sep 29 13:31:42 2003
From: brucedickey at micron.com (Bruce Dickey)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:31:42 -0600
Subject: [joke] Any tool to translate PHP to Python?
References: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com> <3f75f5b8$0$20650$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <vncdncfj0csgdf@corp.supernews.com> <cb035744.0309281309.267f4d5c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl9q9u$e57$1@admin-svc.micron.com>

"Will Stuyvesant" <hwlgw at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb035744.0309281309.267f4d5c at posting.google.com...
> > [Bruce Dickey]
> > > [Bruno Desthuilliers]
> > > Bruce Dickey wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I have some PHP scripts I'm moving from my web server to the local
PC.
> > >> They just do file manipulation.
> > >>
> > >> Anybody know of a tool for translating PHP to Python?
> > >
> > >
> > > Er... What about a programmer ?-)
> > >
> > > (sorry, could not resist)
> > > Bruno
> > >
> >
> > Heh heh. Point taken. I actually *was* assuming I would be the tool --
> > ...
> > It seems to me that for folks migrating from PHP to Python, a translator
> > would be a handy tool.
>
> Um, was the point was really taken?  Translating programming languages
> is *very* hard.  Otherwise, it would be possible to just translate
> Python to C, with all the obvious benefits.
>
> Perhaps automatic translation of some standard PHP patterns is
> possible?  No, still too hard.  Think about it.
>
> --
> The subspace _W inherits the other 8 properties of _V. And there
> aren't even any property taxes.
>                 -- J. MacKay, Mathematics 134b

Yes, it was really taken. I know its hard, but not impossible. Source
translators exist for a number of languages, such as Basic to Pascal, Pascal
to C, C to Pascal, VB to Python, Java to C++....
Some are only partial, but that provides a good start.

That people have created compilers for that pathological language C++ shows
what can be done with determination. PHP is a (much) simpler language.

I have no plans to write a PHP to Python translator, however. I have only a
few small scripts to convert.

Bruce






From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Tue Sep 30 07:02:10 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 04:02:10 -0700
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309300302.3b128cdf@posting.google.com>

Hello Dag,

> Is there a python module that includes functions for working with prime 
> numbers?  I mainly need A function that returns the Nth prime number and 
> that returns how many prime numbers are less than N, but a prime number 
> tester would also be nice.  I'm dealing with numbers in the 10^6-10^8 range  
> so it would have to fairly efficient
Try gmpy (http://gmpy.sourceforge.net/)

HTH.
Miki



From roberto at dealmeida.net  Mon Sep 22 13:07:23 2003
From: roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De Almeida)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 10:07:23 -0700
Subject: Playing with dictionaries
Message-ID: <10c662fe.0309220907.a84bea5@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Suppose I have a dictionary containg nested dictionaries. Something
like this:

>>> pprint.pprint(dataset)
{'casts': {'experimenter': None,
           'location': {'latitude': None,
                        'longitude': None},
           'time': None,
           'xbt': {'depth': None,
                   'temperature': None}},
 'catalog_number': None,
 'z': {'array': {'z': None},
       'maps': {'lat': None,
                'lon': None}}}

I want to assign to the values in the dictionary the hierarchy of keys
to it. For example:

>>> dataset['casts']['experimenter'] = 'casts.experimenter'
>>> dataset['z']['array']['z'] = 'z.array.z'

Of course I would like to do this automatically, independent of the
structure of the dictionary. Is there an easy way to do it?

Thanks,

Roberto



From lk at digicart.hu  Thu Sep 18 05:22:15 2003
From: lk at digicart.hu (Ladvánszky Károly)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:22:15 GMT
Subject: DLL info
Message-ID: <b03da24326888105a23a49b85f0660bb@news.meganetnews.com>

Could someone suggest me how to gather various information (version number
etc.) from a Windows DLL?
Thanks for any help,

K?roly





From michaelmossey at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 16:19:52 2003
From: michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 13:19:52 -0700
Subject: installing PyQt
Message-ID: <9badaf0.0309031219.666fa852@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm trying to install PyQt for windows together with
non-commercial Qt version 2.3.0.  When I try to run a sample Qt
program I get this error:

  File "c:/DOCUME~1/mossey/LOCALS~1/Temp/python-1872fAk", line 1, in ?
    from main_qt import *
  File "main_qt.py", line 2, in ?
    from qt import *
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\site-packages\qt.py", line 17, in ?
    import libsip
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.

I'm assuming it can't find libsip.dll.  This file is located in the
directory C:\Program Files\Python22\Lib\site-packages\ and I added
that directory to both the PYTHONPATH and the PATH.  This is windows
2000 so I used the system dialog to do it, and then rebooted the
computer (I don't know if rebooting is necessary).  I keep getting the
same error.  I tried copying libsip.dll to the C:\winnt directory and
it still didn't find it.  Can someone familiar with Python on Windows
2000 give me a clue here?

Regards,
Mike



From cavok at freemail.it  Thu Sep  4 18:39:36 2003
From: cavok at freemail.it (Domenico Andreoli)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:39:36 GMT
Subject: this is my own python-setuid.c
Message-ID: <IaP5b.292632$Ny5.9039455@twister2.libero.it>

Hi,

   I did a little research about execution of Python setuid scripts. I 
found only a couple of C wrappers I don't like. So I wrote my own, it is 
available at [0]. Feel free to send comments.

2c

[0] http://savannah.nongnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/prua/prua/python-setuid.c

-----[ Domenico Andreoli, aka cavok
  --[ http://filibusta.crema.unimi.it/~cavok/gpgkey.asc
    ---[ 3A0F 2F80 F79C 678A 8936  4FEE 0677 9033 A20E BC50




From stevewilliams at wwc.com  Mon Sep 15 23:26:39 2003
From: stevewilliams at wwc.com (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:26:39 GMT
Subject: Anyone? Anyone?
Message-ID: <Ppv9b.17302$NX3.3614@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

The following runs slow, as you might expect. I'm open to advice.

. . .
   def GetTotalPages(self):
       self.PPIPrinterWidth = 100  #whatever
       self.PPIPrinterHeight = 100 #whatever
       self.screenscale = 1.0      #whatever
       bitmap = wxEmptyBitmap(
            PrinterDefinition['PageWidth'] * self.PPIPrinterWidth
           ,PrinterDefinition['PageHeight'] * self.PPIPrinterHeight)
       DC = wxMemoryDC()
       DC.SelectObject(bitmap)
       self.page_total = 0
       while self.DoDrawing(DC) <> False:
           self.page_total += 1
       return self.page_total
. .




From smory at ptdprolog.net  Mon Sep  1 12:50:03 2003
From: smory at ptdprolog.net (Daniel R. Smorey Jr.)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:50:03 -0400
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062392643.28659.python-list@python.org>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <mailman.1062392643.28659.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QO2dndjrvOR15c6iU-KYgw@comcast.com>

Steven Taschuk wrote:

> Quoth Daniel R. Smorey Jr.:
> 
> 
> For full-text searches, try <http://www.pydoc.org/>.
> 
> For functions and whatnot, there's the index of the Library
> Reference, <http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/lib/genindex.html>.
> 

That's exactly what I was looking for!  I didn't even know until now 
that you don't have to import string and that split is part of python 
now.  pydoc.org gave me that in the first page of hits, I think the 
second hit.  Thanks...





From pieter at countersnipe.com  Thu Sep 11 08:06:10 2003
From: pieter at countersnipe.com (Pieter Claassen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:06:10 +0100
Subject: How to compile 3rd party python into single large binary
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.11.12.06.10.354732@countersnipe.com>

I am developing an app that pulls loads of 3rd party python libraries/code
in. The problem is that I don't want to require potential buyers to
struggle to get the software going:

Problems might be:
1. Packaging system that they use to pull applications onto their machine
does not have the right modules.
2. They now have to run and maintain tar.zipped installs 
3. They want to use the software, not spend a long time installing it 
4. They might be on windows or linux

The software will be distributed both as a standalone product as well as
with a debian based larger product that already includes all the libraries.

So, here is my question:

1. Does anybody know of a way to build a single large file containing all
the source/compiled code?

I don't want to change the software to have to bundle my and third party
packages together in the same dir.

Thanks,
Pieter



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Sep 26 21:28:53 2003
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:28:53 -0700
Subject: Saving Numeric arrays to file?
References: <bl2ktf$8lq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bl2ov9$78mdr$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de>

Duncan Smith asks about writing Numeric arrays to disk:
>        [ 0,  0,  0,  5,  0,  0]])
> >>> f = file('c:\Data\IS_rounded.txt', 'w')
>

Perhaps with 'wb' ?

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com





From nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep  2 08:15:03 2003
From: nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net (KC)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:15:03 -0400
Subject: htmllib.py and parsing malformed HTML
In-Reply-To: <bj1sh5$e9i7j$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <G1T4b.2227$gJ.1163@bignews3.bellsouth.net> <bj1sh5$e9i7j$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <JP%4b.4205$tH.3863@bignews4.bellsouth.net>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You could use tidy (http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/) before you
> parse the html.

I appreciate the suggestion but unfortunately this will not work well 
for me as the parser runs as part of a cron job.  I wouldn't be able to 
review the tidy error log in a timely fashion if there was a problem.

What would be really nice is a way to tell the parser it was "inside" a 
<TR> when I encountered a <TD> after a closing </TR>.  Browsers still 
display the HTML correctly without a starting <TR>, but if the closing 
</TR> is omitted everything gets mangled.

Any other suggestions?




From richard.townsend at edl.uk.eds.com  Wed Sep 10 03:18:06 2003
From: richard.townsend at edl.uk.eds.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 00:18:06 -0700
Subject: Image on disabled button
References: <1062436629.69505.0@dyke.uk.clara.net> <cpm7b.930437$3C2.21206984@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <1063135933.53254.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <7e337cbf.0309092318.3019e1cb@posting.google.com>

> 
> (From memory) the following options added after creating the root window
> prevent the bug occurring on HP-UX11i
> 
> self.root.option_add('*background', 'grey75')
> self.root.option_add('*disabledBackground', '')
> 

I have now checked again on HP-UX and have found that you must also set:

self.root.option_add('*disabledForeground', '')

to stop the bug appearing...



From tireseas at onetel.com  Sun Sep  7 14:08:26 2003
From: tireseas at onetel.com (Andy)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 19:08:26 +0100
Subject: Testing
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.07.18.08.26.970255@onetel.com>

This is not a post it is a test - please ignore



From ceiesa at excite.com  Sat Sep 27 22:30:48 2003
From: ceiesa at excite.com (Bruce Dickey)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:30:48 -0600
Subject: Meta programming question
In-Reply-To: <slrnbncfom.118.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
References: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com> <slrnbncfom.118.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <vnciijiteci947@corp.supernews.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:18:15 -0600, Bruce Dickey wrote:
> 
>>I've read a number of the meta progamming articles. I have not found
>>what I am looking for. I want to override assignments to variables
>>which are in the module namespace (not object members -- no classes
>>involved).  Can this be done?
> 
> 
> AFAIK, no.  If it were possible, it would be very confusing.
> 
> What is it you're trying to achieve?  Perhaps a better alternative can
> be suggested that doesn't break expected behaviour.
> 
I'm investigating the use of Python as a grammar language. I'm trying to 
achive minimal required syntax/verbage.

Thanks,

Bruce




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Sep  7 21:01:17 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 18:01:17 -0700
Subject: Is there a unicode EOF mark like DOS ascii ctl-z or unix crl-d ?
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> I couldn't find one.

Unicode subsumes the normal ASCII control characters, so U0004 is EOT
(end of transmission) just like 0x04 in ASCII is:

	http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0000.pdf

Unicode also includes a _symbol_ for it at U2404.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The work will teach you how to do it.
\__/  (an Estonian proverb)



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep  2 18:33:01 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:33:01 -0500
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
In-Reply-To: <bj30il$eoev7$2@ID-125932.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com> <bj30il$eoev7$2@ID-125932.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030902223301.GA11303@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:03:17PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote:
> "What's wrong" is that 'proprietary nature.'  If I write code in Perl,
> Python, or Ruby, I can be certain that I won't get bitten because of
> someone pulling the rug out from under them.  
> 
> I can't be certain in the same way of the perpetual availability of
> REBOL.

Of course, it's also possible that it might become impossible to use
"non-proprietary" software.

There are legal reasons: Perhaps the software will be found to violate
a patent, or infringe copyright.  Perhaps it will be judged to violate a
DMCA-type law.  Perhaps a new "software defects" law will be impossible
for free software to conform to (for instance, due to a requirement that
the software developer post a bond against damages caused by defects in
the software).

There are also technical reasons:  How many programmer-hours do you think
it would take to port X10 (the predecessor to X11) to MacOS X running
on Itanium?  Or to XBox2?  What if the dominant machine/OS combination in
the future makes it hard or impossible to run programs written in your
chosen language (JVM doesn't support C efficiently, for instance), or
uses DRM to keep you from running arbitrary unsigned code (under a system
of this type, interpreters like Python would obvously never be Signed)

Jeff




From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Wed Sep 24 07:29:35 2003
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:29:35 +0200
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org> <bkcgfm$gu1$1@news.island.liu.se> <mailman.1064300795.6408.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkrv6t$hq8$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Have you tried :
socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
or
socket.gethostbyname_ex(socket.getfqdn())[2]

Normally the result should be different if you're connected or not

Cheers,
Pierre

"Mickel Gr?nroos" <mickel at csc.fi> a ?crit dans le message de
news:mailman.1064300795.6408.python-list at python.org...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Thomas Bellman wrote:

> Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the
computer
> > is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
> > straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with
sockets
> > and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.
>
> First of all you need to define what "being online" means...
[...]
> Or perhaps you should tell us *why* you believe you need to check
> if the computer is connected to the Internet or not.  Then we can
> go directly to telling you that it is a bad idea, and suggest what
> you should do instead. <0.5 wink>

OK, here's what I want to do:

When the Tkinter application I am writing starts up, it checks if certain
files on the web exists and if so, it downloads them to a local directory
replacing possible earlier copies of these files. So, what I mean by
checking if the computer is online is that I want to check if I can access
these certain remote files with urllib.urlretrieve(). If I can, then I
download them. If I can't, I assume the computer is not connected to the
Internet and I skip the update phase.

The problem with just running urllib.urlretrieve() is that the execution
of the script halts as there is no timeout available for Python 2.2.2. (I
tried timeoutsocket.py to get this done, but that only worked on Windows
2000, not Redhat Linux 7.0. I also tried upgrading to Python 2.3, but that
caused some other problems, especially with the gettext module and with
the fact that my ISO-8859-1 encoded files needed a "coding" line.)

So that's that. Anybody still got a few lines of code that would get this
done on Python 2.2.2 on Windows _and_ Linux?

Cheers,

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep  4 17:40:38 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:40:38 -0400
Subject: Output in color
References: <mailman.1062707716.17757.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F57B156.ADCDE0CF@engcorp.com>

Bradford Powers wrote:
> 
> I'm curious how I can make Python print text in color.

Begin by specifying the platform on which you want this to work,
and other possibly relevant details such as whether this is a
console program or one with a GUI (presumably not), and maybe
some other details I can't think of right now.

Also you might check the archives of this newsgroup at
groups.google.com.  This sort of question comes up fairly
often.  Might even be a FAQ at this point (see www.python.org).

-Peter



From mwh at python.net  Tue Sep  2 07:37:03 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:37:03 GMT
Subject: Compiler C or Python?
References: <20030826213316.GA7285@unpythonic.net> <mailman.1062498963.22409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3vfsbh1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

jhf at hex.no (J?rgen Hermanrud Fjeld) writes:

> On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 04:33:17PM -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> > 4. It's possible to write code so that __import__ uses compiler.compile
> > instead of the written-in-C compiler, but I don't have this code handy. 
> > Also, a test suite is needed, and presumably a written-in-C implementation
> > as well. (option 2: make the compiler.compile interface the standard
> > compiler, and let the builtin compiler support a Python subset
> > sufficient to bootstrap the written-in-python compiler, or arrange
> > to ship .pyc of the compiler package and completely get rid of the
> > written-in-C compiler)
> 
> Could you make an effort to locate that code, or give some suggestions to
> where I might locate it myself?
> 
> And in general, if should want to alter the Python compiler, should
> I start with the Python or C version?

Whichever's easiest :-)  This is usually the Python one.

A toy that might come in handy is an interactive mode (based on
code.InteractiveConsole) that compiles input with the customized
compiler.

> As far as I can see from your email the Python version is easier to
> modify, but why two compilers? Isn't that a lot to maintain?

The Lib/compiler/ package is pretty slow.  Also, making that the only
compiler might lead to irritating bootstrapping problems (which I now
see Jeff talked about...).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Do I do everything in C++ and teach a course in advanced swearing?
         -- David Beazley at IPC8, on choosing a language for teaching



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 30 10:03:45 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:03:45 -0500
Subject: build a static python executable on linux?
In-Reply-To: <blafsa$3i5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
References: <blacgq$2qe$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
        <g7ehnv0r4okuds8jarvmqj6tnntlm0bvhs@4ax.com>
        <blafsa$3i5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <16249.36161.620488.759202@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Alex> I am able to compile a static interpreter (using -static
    Alex> -static-libgcc) but I can not build the extensions correctly.

You effectively need to transport yourself back in time before distutils
existed, and modify Modules/Setup (or more correctly, Modules/Setup.local)
appropriately to define the build commands for all the extension modules you
want to include in your interpreter.  It's a little tedious the first time
(it will probably take a few iterations to get everything correct), but once
you get the hang of it, it's easy to do.  Use the compile and link commands
output by distutils to give yourself a head start on -I, -L and -l flags to
include in your definitions.  Many of the commented out definitions are
probably also close.

If you identify some modules with no commented out build definitions in the
Setup file, please file a bug report on SourceForge.

Skip




From jim_kerr at agilent.com  Mon Sep 29 20:36:34 2003
From: jim_kerr at agilent.com (Jim Kerr)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 17:36:34 -0700
Subject: Has anyone used decompyle recently?
Message-ID: <50626d00.0309291636.806cbc7@posting.google.com>

I am trying to reconstruct Python source files from an application I
generated from py2exe. I accidentally deleted the sources for the app,
but the py2exe-generated executable contains .pyc files for all the
sources. I would love to be able to reverse engineer the .pyc files
back to the source.

  I did find some mention in this group of a utility called decompyle,
and I tried downloading the goodies from
   http://www.crazy-compilers.com/decompyle/.

  Neither version of decompyle seems to work. The 0.6 version can't
handle Python 2.2 compiled code, and the installer for the 2.2beta1
fails on Windows.

  Has anyone out there been able to decompile 2.2 compiled code? I
guess I could try to modify the source for decompyle 0.6 to work with
Python 2.2, but since I have zero experience with Python compilation
internals, that could be a tough slope to climb.

  Any help would be much appreciated!

Jim Kerr
Agilent Technologies
Santa Rosa, CA



From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Tue Sep 16 06:26:49 2003
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:26:49 +0200
Subject: embedding python code in html, like PHP
References: <mailman.1063566798.31909.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bk6oh7$18e$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Take a look at Karrigell : http://karrigell.sourceforge.net
Pierre

"python" <python at sarcastic-horse.com> a ?crit dans le message de
news:mailman.1063566798.31909.python-list at python.org...
> Hi-
>
> Is there a python module that will allow me to embed code into an html
> document, sort of like php?
>
> Thanks.
>





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 17:25:17 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:25:17 +0300
Subject: how to build a list of mx.DateTime objects from a start and end        date?
References: <mailman.1063742662.14136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6pvemvgr4hmd2fqgnltdum7b5g8ti6a7cn@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:02:53 -0400 (EDT), rumours say that
python at sarcastic-horse.com might have written:

>I want to make a list of mx.DateTime objects that cover all the monthly
>intervals between two points.  For example:
>
>>>> import mx.DateTime
>>>> nov1999 = mx.DateTime.Date(1999, 11)
>>>> mar2003 = mx.DateTime.Date(2003, 3)
>>>> alldates = mk_list(startdate=nov1999, enddate=mar2003)
>>>> alldates
>[ ... a bunch of mx.DateTime objects including and between the startdate
>and enddate ...]
>
>How would I do something like this?

I'm not familiar with the exact names of the mx functions, but what I
would do, would be:

create an empty list
set an mx.DateTime object to the start date
while the mx.DateTime is less or equal to the end date:
 append it to the list, add one day to it

Add some parentheses and you got the python code :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep 22 11:57:41 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:57:41 -0600
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
In-Reply-To: <3F6F12A1.3010702@bu.edu>
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com>
 <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com>
 <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org>
 <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com>
 <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it>
 <3F6F12A1.3010702@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030922095602.03339dd0@66.28.54.253>

At 09:17 AM 9/22/2003, Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have a question about the comparison of efficiency of string slicing and 
>using string.startswith.
>For example, which one of the following would be more efficient, or , 
>moreover, more pythonic?
>
>if aa[:3] == 'abc':
>
>vs
>
>if aa.startswith('abc'):

Here's one way to address this kind of question:

 >>> import time
 >>> def f():
...     st = time.time()
...     for i in range(500000):
...         if aa.startswith('abc'):pass
...     print time.time() - st
...
 >>> f()
1.01200008392
 >>> def f():
...     st = time.time()
...     for i in range(500000):
...         if aa[:3] == 'abc':pass
...     print time.time() - st
...
 >>> f()
1.01100003719

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Thu Sep 11 10:22:12 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:22:12 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
Message-ID: <000d01c37870$181e6020$0c02a8c0@Arts>

I had written:

>To in fact specifically not be a statistic.

>Yes, there is something quite American about that viewpoint. God bless.


Adding a bit more polemic/point-of-view to a polemic/point-of-view that is
not fully my own, but with which I have considerable sympathy:

That the statisticians have to understand themselves as impotent in this
argument.  Except that to the extent that statistics indicate a cost to the
freedom to gun ownership, another cost of freedom has been identified.

There are many. Why wouldn't there be. Nothing worthwhile is without cost.
Rubbing those costs in one's face?  To what end?

Art





From bokr at oz.net  Fri Sep 12 13:57:46 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 17:57:46 GMT
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com> <L%06b.18004$hE5.637245@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309110734.1e5d28be@posting.google.com> <87y8wvfd6d.fsf@pobox.com> <RXLY/kKkXU4e092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1063303282.4058.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjt1eq$dui$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:58:53 -0400, mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote:

>jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote previously:
>|Pearson and O'Reilly owned by a single company, or something?  I have
>|a vague recollection that Pearson owns some other companies...
>
>There's been a huge amount of consolidation in publishing.  Pearson is
>not the parent of Addison-Wesley, Longman, Benjamin Cumming, New Riders,
 ^^^-- assume you mean "now"

>Peachpit, Cisco Press, Prentice Hall, SAMS, Que, and several more
>imprints.  It's really a rather bad thing, although they do not seem to
>use the degree of ideological acid-test that, say, MediaCorp
>acquisitions do.
>
>I started writing my book for AW, only to find it a Prentice book when
>it was published (it still has the AW imprint, but the meaning seems
>diluted).
>
>That said, I'm pretty sure that O'Reilly remains one of the few
>independent publishers of technical books.  I think Manning is also.
>
[OT] So instead of a distributed implementation of business, with no
individual way of making billion dollar mistakes, the consolidation
centralizes control and makes billion dollar mistakes both possible
and survivable, and therefore more probable. And if one of these
titanic dinosaurs starts faltering, it is so socially disruptive that
tax payers have to provide survival insurance one way or another.
Evolution at work ;-/

[really OT]
Factoids: Iraq 2002 per capita GDP: ~$2,400. Iraq population: ~24.7 million.
$87bn if distributed to all Iraquis: ~$3,500. per capita. And that's just
the new increment. Sorry. Just trying to get a concept of what these numbers
mean. Or could have meant. (E.g., if you wanted to put 100 tourists on each and
every square mile of Iraq at the same time, with $87bn you could give every tourist
a ~$5,000. travel budget to do it). (87e9/168e3)/100 => 5178.5714285714284)
It would be interesting to compare the effects of the expenditure alternatives
if it were possible. IMO tourism would have been a lot more fun (and good for
airlines too). I suspect peaceful expenditures have more business multipliers
in them, not to mention what happens in people's minds if they can enjoyably meet
as humans rather than agents of some extraneous worry ;-) (Ok, let's not get into
the logistics of sending 16.8 million tourists with $5k each at the same time
to one country ;-) Besides that's only $84bn. We have $3bn in roundoff to spare ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep 30 07:27:46 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:27:46 +0200
Subject: [PMW 1.2] Dialog controls vanish upon editing
References: <3f794786@news.swissonline.ch> <blbi7l$j17$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f796866@news.swissonline.ch>

Thanks Peter,

but this method doesn't seem to be the reason. I placed a "return 1" as the
first statement in its body. No change for the better.

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:blbi7l$j17$06$1 at news.t-online.com...
> F. GEIGER wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I use PMW 1.2 on Python 2.3.0 on Win2k.
> >
> > I've created a dialog that looks like so:
> >
> >                      +----------------------+
> >                 Name |                      |
> >                      +----------------------+
> >                      +----------------------+
> >    Caption text head |                      |
> >                      +----------------------+
> >                      +----------------------+
> >    # Digits w/o sign |                      |
> >                      +----------------------+
> >                      +----------------------+
> >    Caption text tail |                      |
> >                      +----------------------+
> >                      +--+
> >          Is editable |  |
> >                      +--+
> >                      +--------------------+-+
> >       Parameter name |                    |V| Drop-down.
> >                      +--------------------+-+
> >
> >
> > I pull down the drop-down control, select an item, the drop-down closes
> > and - vanishes. All controls have vanished. After half a second or so
the
> > first one reappears, but w/o its label 'Name'.
> >
> > The other ones reapper if I click onto the pane where they are supposed
to
> > be. They also reapper if I change to an other app and then come back
> > again. I guess this is because a window update is issued by the OS.
> >
> > What do I miss?
>
> I would guess that
>
> >    def _validateNameId_(self, text):
> >       if Proxy.DataProxy().parameterExists(text):
> >          return -1
> >       return 1
>
> is either awfully slow and/or throws an exception.
>
> You could easily verify this assumption with
>
> (a)
> def _validateNameId_(self, text):
>     return 1
>
> and
> (b)
> def _validateNameId_(self, text):
>     try:
>         if Proxy.DataProxy().parameterExists(text):
>             return -1
>         return 1
>     except: # generally a bad idea
>         print >> sys.stderr, "something went wrong"
>         return 1
>
>
> Peter





From jim-usenet at jimdabell.com  Tue Sep  2 13:04:29 2003
From: jim-usenet at jimdabell.com (Jim Dabell)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:04:29 +0100
Subject: python + mplayer
References: <9d302332.0309020740.29ee6613@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a5qdnaoqPt_ZU8miRVn-tA@giganews.com>

Mike Zupan wrote:

> I'm wondering if anyone has a link or made a script to control mplayer
> via python. I'm aware that freevo does it but I don't wanna debug
> their code to figure it all out. I'm looking for something very simple
> that can get me started in controlling mplayer in a python app. I'd
> like to get a movie into a pygame app i'm doing.

<URL:http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/> should have everything you need,
specifically <URL:http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/#slave>.


-- 
Jim Dabell




From messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 11:32:12 2003
From: messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com (ataraxia2500)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:32:12 +0200
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f72eb7c$0$29964$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> <bkuvdk$qpf$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f730a8f$0$23386$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>

Peter Otten wrote:

> ataraxia2500 wrote:
> 
>> I get that weird error when I tried to run the little loop, this is what
>> it says:
>> 
>> sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xa0' in file myloop.py
>> on line 3, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps
>> pep-0263.html for details
>>   File "myloop", line 3
>>     os.system('/home/joe/src/myprog/myprog')
>>     ^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>> 
>> does it mean anything to you?
> 
> 
> The whitespace before os.system() consists of '\xa0' characters, no idea
> why.
> 
> However, I have noticed that when I copy and paste from KNode 7.2 using
> Strg+C/Strg+V instead of the middle mouse button, all '\xa0' are magically
> converted back to old '\x20' space characters.
> 
> Peter
ok thanx that was the problem, I use knode from CVS and when I did a Ctrl+C
it asked me what encoding I wanted, how neat! but I had no idea which one
to chose, after two failure I decided to type it by myself and it worked :)



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Sep 29 19:24:51 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:24:51 GMT
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <gandreas-21AC09.14161229092003@news.mpls.visi.com> <vnh8uh5j8e3i44@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7b3eb.1748$603.1208@news2.central.cox.net>

"Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote in message
news:vnh8uh5j8e3i44 at corp.supernews.com...
> > Perhaps using a proxy object...might work:
>
> Great idea!  Some complications:
>
> 1. Sometimes the test "if not realApp:" causes unbounded recursion.  To
> avoid any possibility of this happening the startup code just creates the
> app object before any code actually uses the app proxies.  This is easily
> done.
>
> 2. A __call__ method in the proxy allows the code to use either app().x or
> app.x.
>
> In short, the following pattern appears like it will work in all my
modules:
>
> from leoGlobals import *
> app = leoProxy() # leoProxy defined in leoGlobals
> # Now the code can reference either app.x or app().x.
>
> To do this, I use the following code:
>
> gApp = None # Set before any reference to proxy.
> class leoProxy:
>   def __getattr__(self,attr):
>     return getattr(gApp,attr)
>   def __call__(self):
>     return gApp
>
> Many thanks for this great idea.
>

I've followed this thread, and I'm having trouble understanding why nobody's
suggested using Alex martelli's "borg" pattern, which he originally called a
"statel;ess proxy", where all objects of a given type share the same state
information. Sounds to me that's what you really want, no?

This would mean that in leo_global you would have something like this:

leo_global.py:
-------------
class Borg(object):
    _state = {}
    def __new__(cls, *p, **k):
        self = object.__new__(cls, *p, **k)
        self.__dict__ = cls._state
        return self


module1.py
-------------
from leo_global import Borg

myborg = Borg()
myborg.var1 = "This is var 1"

import module2

print "Module 1's borg has var1 =", myborg.var1, id(myborg.var1)
print "Module 1's borg has var2 =", myborg.var2, id(myborg.var2)


 module2.py:
-------------
from leo_global import Borg

myborg = Borg()
myborg.var2 = "This is var 2"

print "Module 2's borg has var1 =", myborg.var1, id(myborg.var1)
print "Module 2's borg has var2 =", myborg.var2, id(myborg.var2)

The result of all this appears to be what you want: a simple way of creating
an easily-referenced shared state. Vide:

C:\Steve\Projects\Python>python module1.py
Module 2's borg has var1 = This is var 1 7766584
Module 2's borg has var2 = This is var 2 8008928
Module 1's borg has var1 = This is var 1 7766584
Module 1's borg has var2 = This is var 2 8008928

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Sep 22 05:07:17 2003
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:07:17 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Sep 22)
Message-ID: <vmteu5ga9mei19@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "Python seems to encourage and reward incremental effort, and it leads
one to explore extensions and improvements to programs because the language
makes it relatively easy to see how to do the extensions."  -- Ron Stephens

"When writing programs in Python, write Python programs" -- Jeff Epler's
advice to those forcing themselves to write code using idioms learned in
other languages

"Oh come on, now, just because Java does it..."  -- Dave Benjamin's snappy
comeback to Bob Grailer's facetiously offered name for an inverse yield
statement called "suck".


Discussion
----------
    Alex Martelli, Simon Burton, and Richie Hindle unleash their
    Pythons to crush the latest internet worm:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ca04531642584030>
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ce63bf1338b0ef8a>
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1063988666.28932.python-list at python.org>

    David Eppstein shows how to use zip to quickly retrieve an
    arbitrary column in a table stored as a list of lists:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=eppstein-87EA1B.13431116092003 at news.service.uci.edu>

    Rudy Shockaert coaches Bill Blancett on developing a script to send
    email with attachements using smtplib and the email module:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4fd6e92.0309190518.3b226735 at posting.google.com>

    Dave Brueck and Skip Montanaro provide expert advice on threadsafe
    access to global variables:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b44a9fcebc90a01d>

    A dozen pythonistias share real world experience about the
    relative merits and applicability of Zope, Twisted, Python CGI,
    Jython, Webware, and Medusa.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=903e379430bffdfd>

    Duncan Booth provides a masterfully simple explaination of Python's
    "global mutex" (the so-called GIL) and its implications for
    multi-threaded applications.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Xns93FA744C65C2Bduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>

    Stefan Franke succinctly demonstrates a fast way to filter sets.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=bka5e3%24qito9%241 at ID-105404.news.uni-berlin.de>

    Along with all its usual benefits, the latest semi-monthly
    python-dev summary includes interesting personal commentary
    and traffic analysis from summarizer Brett Cannon.
	<http://groups.google.com/groups?th=db2820f9a9e1e89f>

    Bob Findlay offers an on-line course in Python programming:
        <http://www.icanprogram.com/pythonlinux.html>

    This week's language change suggestions:
    * mutable strings
    * repeat/while control structure for mid-loop termination testing
    * an inverse yield statement similar to threading.Event.wait()

Releases
--------
    ClientFrom 0.1.8b - module for client side HTML form handling
        (parsing, filling-in, and returning data to the server).
        <http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/>

    pyTerra - module for querying Microsoft's TerraServer to download
        cartographic images.
        <http://hobu.biz/software/pyTerra>
    
    imgSeek 0.8.2 - photo collection manager and viewer
        <http://imgseek.sourceforge.net/net/>

    Vision Egg 0.9.9 - high level interface to OpenGL for tapping into
        the capabilities of graphic cards.
        <http://www.visionegg.org/>

    SpamBayes 1.0a6 - source code for the world class spam filter.
        <http://spambayes.org/download.html>

    Soprano 0.04 - windows GUI app for querying hosts for information
        about local groups, users, and other data.
        <http://sourceforge.net/projects/soprano/>

    PythonCard 0.7.2 - GUI construction kit for building cross-platform
        desktop applications on Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux.
        <http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/>

    Twisted 1.0.7 - an event-driven networking framework for server and
        client applications.
        <http://www.twistedmatrix.com>

    XMLFilter 1.1 - provides XML parsing even if the target system lacks
        a working xml.sax package.
        <http://www.shearersoftware.com/software/developers/xmlfilter/>

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Tue Sep 23 10:28:41 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:28:41 GMT
Subject: Executing a python script from an HTML link?
Message-ID: <tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

Is this possible? In my CGI app. I display a web page with a link (anchor).
When the link is clicked I want to exectute a python script rather than go
to an HTML page.

Many thanks.





From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 07:07:43 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 12:07:43 +0100
Subject: Reportlab Image object opens filehandles
References: <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de> <3f5f36de$1@news.highway1.com.au> <bjnesm$2qbur$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <87u17jvb0g.fsf@pobox.com>

Michael Schmitt <nomail at nomail.com> writes:

> Tim Hoffman wrote:
> 
> > Have a look at limit (or in csh ulimit)
> > 
> > 256 open files is the default limit for a user/process. (all about
> > conserving resources) you can make this bigger (much bigger ;-) assuming
> > you have permissions.
> > 
> > Rgds
> > 
> Hello Tim.
> unfortunately changing this limit is not an option for me.

If you can't use a different machine, alter Image so it doesn't open a
file until actually necessary.  Should be easy.


John



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 18:41:31 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:41:31 +0300
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com> <m3vfrea6fu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ipchnv4a995l1r55rvkfevk2r4ot8cm4bv@4ax.com>

On 27 Sep 2003 12:09:41 +0200, rumours say that martin at v.loewis.de
(Martin v. L?wis) might have written:

>_tkinter built fine for me, with Python 2.3.1, on a Debian/ia64
>system.  If it was not built for you, most likely, you forgot to
>install the header files.

The header files were there (/usr/lib/tcl), and that is why I managed to
compile just by uncommenting the lines in Modules/Setup.  I didn't
install any -devel packages in the meanwhile.
I'll give it a shot again remotely when the machine reaches our client
(we must send it tomorrow).

>audioop and imageop are not build because of this code in setup.py:
>
>        # Multimedia modules
>        # These don't work for 64-bit platforms!!!
>        # These represent audio samples or images as strings:

Ah, thank you.  Given that they worked fine for me[1] on ia64, I will
post a patch tomorrow afternoon which hopefully will be used when more
success reports on 64-bit machines come in.


[1] the tests ran, and I tried the following on a Windows python, a
32-bit Linux and the ia64 one side-by-side:

print audioop.max("hello there!", 2)

and I got 29285 in all three of them
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From mwh at python.net  Sat Sep 27 09:46:08 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:46:08 GMT
Subject: Now that rexec is gone...
References: <XA8db.597231$o%2.276974@sccrnsc02>
Message-ID: <7h33ceinyc8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com> writes:

> Now that rexec is gone, is there any code or information available on
> executing Python in a restricted environment?

There was a thread on python-dev about Zope's version of rexec
(RestrictedPython?) which looked promising on casual inspection.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  > It might get my attention if you'd spin around in your chair,
  > spoke in tongues, and puked jets of green goblin goo.
  I can arrange for this.  ;-)            -- Barry Warsaw & Fred Drake



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep  9 05:17:18 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:17:18 +0200
Subject: set built-in func_code?
In-Reply-To: <bjk4v2$6iv$07$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bjk4v2$6iv$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F5D9A9E.1000305@ghaering.de>

Birgit Rahm wrote:
> Hello newsgroup,
> 
> I want to set the built-in func_code in my function, how can I does this in
> the correct way?

I don't think that's possible for an existing function object. 
Dynamically creating new function objects, however, certainly /is/ possible.

> My books dont tell me anything about this.

There's almost certainly a better way of achieving what you want. Why 
don't you tell us what you really want to do, i. e. what is the purpose 
of this?

-- Gerhard




From stefnin at alussinan.org  Fri Sep 12 07:59:27 2003
From: stefnin at alussinan.org (Stéphane Ninin)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 11:59:27 GMT
Subject: asyncore question
Message-ID: <Xns93F48D6F052CAstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.75>

  Hi.
 
 I am trying to understand the asyncore module.

I read it and found something which seems strange
(nb: I am still using Python 2.2.2).

I will keep only what seems useful in this post:

class dispatcher:
    
    # [...]
   
    def __init__ (self, sock=None, map=None):
        if sock:
            self.set_socket (sock, map)
            # I think it should inherit this anyway
            self.socket.setblocking (0)
            self.connected = 1
            # XXX Does the constructor require that the socket passed
            # be connected?
            try:
                self.addr = sock.getpeername()
            except socket.error:
                # The addr isn't crucial
                pass
        else:
            self.socket = None

    def add_channel (self, map=None):
        #self.log_info ('adding channel %s' % self)
        if map is None:
            map=socket_map
        map [self._fileno] = self

    def create_socket (self, family, type):
        self.family_and_type = family, type
        self.socket = socket.socket (family, type)
        self.socket.setblocking(0)
        self._fileno = self.socket.fileno()
        self.add_channel()


My problem is the following:
what happens if dispatcher is created with non global map
but with no socket, like:

    d=dispatcher(self,sock=None,map=some_map)

then create_socket called:
    
    d.create_socket()

This dispatcher will be added to the global map.
But probably user will call asyncore.loop(map=some_map),
as d was buillt with this map.

Is there not something wrong here, or am I just missing something ?

   Regards,

-- 
St?phane Ninin


 








From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 10:14:45 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:14:45 +0100
Subject: More Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <000e01c37612$881089e0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>
Message-ID: <000f01c37613$940afc70$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

>Hi,
>I'm replying off list as, to be honest, I've had enough.
:-) 
Not as off list as I thought I'd replied. 






From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep  8 08:24:43 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:24:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Modifying the {} and [] tokens
References: <mtqdkv8sdrmgrn02vugnbpuhtjsgel3ohb@4ax.com> <QfC1b.3575$Ej6.427@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <pdvdkv8i0j2lfd041bqlgo0d84sv9kjoh4@4ax.com> <ckjekvcm6pf4hhq59ro08p20gk6lf9himp@4ax.com> <bi7rpt$sv9$1@naig.caltech.edu> <km4fkv8qbbge3mvckv5gsim9amq59qvohb@4ax.com> <UlGdnSPexu1eO9qiXTWJkQ@comcast.com> <e6bfkvsnro96db74j8en20tuqm0tml23lr@4ax.com> <oQhU/ks/KXNd089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F084E3691FDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote in news:oQhU/ks/KXNd089yn at the-
wire.com:

>    Personally, the applications I've written so far would
> like dictionary addition d+u to work like
> 
>         for k in u.keys():
>             d[k] = d.get (k, additive_identity) + u[k]
> 
> where additive_identity is a magical value that's 0 working
> with numbers, [] with lists, () with tuples and '' with
> strings.  In real life I'd catch the key errors instead.

FWIW, Your 'magical value' isn't actually terribly magical, it is easily 
defined with a few lines of Python:

>>> class AdditiveIdentityClass:
	def __coerce__(self, other):
		return type(other)(), other

	
>>> additive_identity = AdditiveIdentityClass()
>>> additive_identity + 42
42
>>> additive_identity + "urk!"
'urk!'
>>> additive_identity + (1,2,3)
(1, 2, 3)
>>> additive_identity + { 1:0 }
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#34>", line 1, in ?
    additive_identity + { 1:0 }
TypeError: unsupported operand types for +: 'dict' and 'dict'
>>> [ 5 ] + additive_identity
[5]
>>> 3 - additive_identity
3

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From riquito at riquito.matrix  Tue Sep 23 17:09:37 2003
From: riquito at riquito.matrix (Riccardo Attilio Galli)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:09:37 +0200
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix> <3F704A91.FA7D31F7@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695@riquito.matrix> <bkpsng$knm$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.23.21.09.35.146080@riquito.matrix>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:34:56 -0400, Aahz wrote:

> This is extremely difficult to do in a secure way.  What you need to do
> is encrypt the e-mail password before storage; each time the user starts
> the e-mail application, zie needs to enter the local password.  There are
> other less secure options, all of which (with some partial exceptions)
> equate to "no security" from the perspective of a security professional.
> (E.g. relying on the OS to keep the data secure.)
> 
> Python does not make encryption available in its "batteries included"
> philosophy because of the legal problems.  M2Crypto is probably the
> module most often used; see also
> http://www.amk.ca/python/code/crypto.html

ok, thank you all.

curiosity: what is "zie" intended to mean? It is maybe slang for he/she ?

Ciao,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 20:53:00 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:53:00 +0300
Subject: Wavelet package available?
References: <2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d@posting.google.com> <z4adnU-lwpqa1eWiU-KYjA@comcast.com> <bla6kk$mps$1@reader10.wxs.nl>
Message-ID: <bjkhnv0lns7j7hfl1jsj0tq2kgk9dpnq66@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:03:44 +0200, rumours say that "gez"
<gez_75 at hotmail.com> might have written:

>Why this stupid answer? I tried to find python in combination with wavelets,
>both in the normal Google search engine and the Google groups search. Also
>jpython/jython, etc. but non of the results was what I wanted to use. So,
>that is why I posted it here. Think this is exacly the place to be...

If Terry's answer was stupid like you say, then you shouldn't continue
your paragraph following precisely his suggestion (that is, providing
info about your previous efforts to answer your question).  Imagine sb
telling me to jump off a bridge, me answering "this is stupid!" and then
jumping off the bridge... how would you call that?

[snip of more info about prior searches]
>So, please, think before you write such an answer. Not everybody is as
>stupid as you think.

Please note that Terry didn't call you stupid, he just hinted how to get
more helpful replies.
What exactly in his post was so offensive?  Note that when he used the
phrase 'they should not waste time on' (a subsentence with high
offensive-likeness), the object (syntactically speaking) wasn't <you> or
<your post> but <possible paths to help answer your question>.

[snip]
>So please be more kind to the next poster that (in you eyes) posts a stupid
>question.

IMO Terry *wasn't* unkind towards your post, while IYO he *was*.

If you thought he patronized you, you should say so; but he never called
you or your post 'stupid'.

Please try another approach.  Thank you.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From mzupan at meso.com  Tue Sep  2 11:40:00 2003
From: mzupan at meso.com (Mike Zupan)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:40:00 -0700
Subject: python + mplayer
Message-ID: <9d302332.0309020740.29ee6613@posting.google.com>

I'm wondering if anyone has a link or made a script to control mplayer
via python. I'm aware that freevo does it but I don't wanna debug
their code to figure it all out. I'm looking for something very simple
that can get me started in controlling mplayer in a python app. I'd
like to get a movie into a pygame app i'm doing.



From bogus at invalid.tld  Thu Sep 11 21:14:05 2003
From: bogus at invalid.tld (Jules Dubois)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:14:05 -0600
Subject: safari (was Re: Writing solid code book)
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <c19a00587rpb$.1dbigl3h85ufm$.dlg@40tude.net>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:03:22 GMT, in article
<elC5b.11632$hE5.410636 at news1.tin.it>, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Jules Dubois wrote:
> 
>> That's the only Python book you think worth having?  Or buying?
> 
> Speaking as both the co-editor of the Cookbook and the author of the
> Nutshell, if I had to choose ONE Python book "worth having or buying"
> I think I'd go for the Nutshell.  Hard decision, though.

I discovered the Engineering library had ordered _Nutshell_, but it hadn't
been delivered from the main library.  I requested it and got it the next
day.  

However, seeing for the first time Python's syntax in _Nutshell_ was enough
to scare me away.  We had to commit today to development in Java or Python.
I had made a firm decision to choose Java, even buying a book on the
Eclipse IDE.  Just before sign-ups, we discovered a sample Tkinter
application on the class' internal BBS.  After comparing the Tkinter code
to the Swing code I've read, I signed up for the Python development team
five minutes later.

This afternoon, I bought _Cookbook_.  When _Nutshell_ is due at the
library, I'll buy it too.

Thanks for your suggestions.



From michaelmossey at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 23:39:15 2003
From: michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 20:39:15 -0700
Subject: installing PyQt
References: <9badaf0.0309031219.666fa852@posting.google.com> <ur82xh91k.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <9badaf0.0309031939.43db73ab@posting.google.com>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in message news:<ur82xh91k.fsf at fitlinxx.com>...
> michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey) writes:
> 
> > Hi, I'm trying to install PyQt for windows together with
> > non-commercial Qt version 2.3.0.  When I try to run a sample Qt
> > program I get this error:
> > 
> >   File "c:/DOCUME~1/mossey/LOCALS~1/Temp/python-1872fAk", line 1, in ?
> >     from main_qt import *
> >   File "main_qt.py", line 2, in ?
> >     from qt import *
> >   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\site-packages\qt.py", line 17, in ?
> >     import libsip
> > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> > 
> > I'm assuming it can't find libsip.dll.  This file is located in the
> > directory C:\Program Files\Python22\Lib\site-packages\ and I added
> > that directory to both the PYTHONPATH and the PATH.  This is windows
> > 2000 so I used the system dialog to do it, and then rebooted the
> > computer (I don't know if rebooting is necessary).  I keep getting the
> > same error.  I tried copying libsip.dll to the C:\winnt directory and
> > it still didn't find it.  Can someone familiar with Python on Windows
> > 2000 give me a clue here?
> 
> It's hard to believe that it won't find libsip.dll if it's in the
> site-packages directory since that's part of your default Python
> search path (even without a PYTHONPATH setting).  And since libsip is
> a direct "import" (and not a system DLL dependency), the search path
> that governs things is Pythons (e.g., sys.path, including PYTHONPATH)
> and not the Windows system search path (aka PATH).
> 
> But it wouldn't hurt for you to verify sys.path after starting a copy
> of Python just to ensure that it has all the directories you expect.
> 
> So if we assume libsip itself is found, the problem could be in
> loading it due to another dependency.  Do you have the underlying Qt
> DLL (I forget the exact name for the non-commercial version) also
> somewhere in the system PATH?  libsip.dll depends on the Qt DLL, and
> if it fails to find it, libsip in turn will fail to load and can
> produce precisely the traceback as above.
> 
> Although if it is a failing dependent DLL, in such a case typically
> you'll also get a system dialog complaining about not finding the
> underlying dependent DLL, but maybe you've just answered that dialog
> without reading it closely?  (or maybe somehow those dialogs are being
> suppressed in your setup)
> 
> Another alternative would be some other dependency - it might be worth
> checking if all the dependencies for libsip.dll can be resolved on
> your system.  A tool like depends (comes with various MS
> toolkits/development environments), or cygcheck (if you have cygwin)
> or others you can download can check this.
> 
> -- David


Hi, thanks very much.  Your information was helpful in tracking down
the problem, which turned out to be that PyQt was built against Python
2.3 and I was running Python 2.2.2.  I'm running Python from Emacs, so
I had to do a few more things to get Emacs to recognize a new version
of python -- turns out I had to re-byte-compile the python-mode.el
file.  It all seems to work now.  Although you didn't suggest this
solution directly, your information allowed me to eliminate things and
quickly move toward the right answer.  Isn't it neat how that works?

-Mike



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 15:37:20 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:37:20 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com>
>
> ... but I would have been happier to see a bunch of
> suggestions for Mr. Useldinger to read, without the negative
> comments about others' suggestions.  Just doesn't feel right
> to me.  Call me mildly ticked, is all.
>

I think you are right! In fact I enjoy all the other suggestions, 20% of
which I did not know of before...
So I should contribute another clasical book:

Hofstadter: Goedel Escher Bach

which probably everybody of our age has read but maybe not the younger
generation ;-) And it is still entertaining, especially in a hospital...


Kindly
Michael P





From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Tue Sep 30 03:44:28 2003
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:44:28 -0000
Subject: Fun with fancy slicing
Message-ID: <slrnbniddg.ldu.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

Hey all,

I just realized you can very easily implement a sequence grouping function
using Python 2.3's fancy slicing support:

def group(values, size):
    return map(None, *[values[i::size] for i in range(size)])
    
>>> group(range(20), 4)
[(0, 1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6, 7), (8, 9, 10, 11), (12, 13, 14, 15),
(16, 17, 18, 19)]

>>> group(range(14), 3)
[(0, 1, 2), (3, 4, 5), (6, 7, 8), (9, 10, 11), (12, 13, None)]

I had to use map(None, *...) instead of zip(*...) to transpose the result
because zip throws away the "orphans" at the end. Anyway, this is a useful
function to have in your toolkit if you need to do pagination or
multi-column display, among other things...

Anyone have any other interesting applications of the extended slice syntax?

Peace,
Dave

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin (ramenboy) -:- www.ramenfest.com -:- www.3dex.com ]:.
: d r i n k i n g   l i f e   o u t   o f   t h e   c o n t a i n e r :



From messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 10:30:18 2003
From: messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com (ataraxia2500)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:30:18 +0200
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f72eb7c$0$29964$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> <fBCcb.164855$R32.5292346@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3f72fc0d$0$8288$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>

<posted & mailed>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> ataraxia2500 wrote:
> 
>> hey Ed,
>> I get that weird error when I tried to run the little loop, this is what
>> it says:
>> 
>> sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xa0' in file myloop.py
>> on line 3, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps
>> pep-0263.html for details
>>   File "myloop", line 3
>>     os.system('/home/joe/src/myprog/myprog')
>>     ^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>> 
>> does it mean anything to you?
> 
> Sure!  You have a weird character, of hex code A0, somewhere on your
> line 3.  How it got there, I dunno.  Anyway, what you need to do is
> remove it -- a good editor should be able to show you exactly where
> it is, otherwise just use a small Python script to find that out.
> 
> 
> Alex
this is my line 3: os.system('/home/joe/src/myprog/myprog')

I even tried os.system('ls /') as line 3 and I still sot the same ascii
error;



From google at elesi.org  Wed Sep 10 20:51:17 2003
From: google at elesi.org (neeson)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 17:51:17 -0700
Subject: Heisenberg strikes again!
References: <a82d9823.0309101254.39f8f05@posting.google.com> <nRM7b.311656$Oz4.100417@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <a82d9823.0309101651.7fdbec7e@posting.google.com>

Thank you!  That answers my questions precisely. :)  You can see my
c/c++/java biases showing.  Expecting global variables to carry into
functions and not expecting silent exceptions to alter my execution
paths.  Valuable lessons!

Heath


"David C. Fox" <davidcfox at post.harvard.edu> wrote in message news:<nRM7b.311656$Oz4.100417 at rwcrnsc54>...
> neeson wrote:
> 
> > Alright, I'm fairly new to Python, and this one has got me stumped. 
> > I've just started to write a cli program that'll use readline, and
> > I've attached the relevant bits.
> > 
> > Here's the mystery:  If I so much as /look/ at the list 'matches',
> > readline stops working.  Run the program, hit tab at the prompt,
> > you'll get 'one', which is incorrect, as there are in fact four
> > possible completions.  Now comment out the line that I've marked
> > (which, incidentally, does nothing).  /Now/ it works.
> > 
> > Is there some very strange side effect to accessing a list element
> > that I'm unaware of?  I've tried it in two different versions of
> > Python.
> 
> No, but there is a side effect of accessing the first element of an 
> empty list: namely, Python raises an IndexError exception (i.e. index 
> out of range).
> 
> > Any elightenment would be appreciated...
> > 
> > Heath
> 
> 
> > 
> > import readline
> > import sys
> > 
> > commands = ["one", "two", "three", "four"]
> > matches = []
> > 
> > def comp(text, state):
> >     if state == 0:
> >         matches = []
> 
> Because you haven't used
> 
>      global matches
> 
> the next statement creates a new list called matches as a variable local 
> to comp.  All your matching commands are added to this variable, which 
> disappears when comp returns.
> 
> 
> >         n = len(text)
> >         for cmd in commands:
> >             if cmd[:n] == text:
> >                 matches.append(cmd)
> 
> 
> >     throwaway = matches[0]   # <--- Comment out this line
> 
> When comp is called with state == 0, matches is still referring to the 
> local list which is not empty (unless there were no matches to the 
> text), so this line does indeed do nothing.  However, when comp is 
> called with state != 0, this line refers to the global matches list, 
> which is empty, so it raises an IndexError, and the following line is 
> not reached.
> 
> Apparently, readline treats an exception in the completer as equivalent 
> to returning None.  In fact, you seem to be relying on this behavior 
> implicitly in the line below, because you are not checking whether state 
> < len(commands)
> 
> >     return commands[state]
> > 
> > readline.set_completer(comp)
> > readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
> 
> David



From 2002 at weholt.org  Thu Sep 11 18:21:23 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:21:23 +0200
Subject: Web server with Python
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no>

"Patrick Useldinger" <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m at 4ax.com...
> Hi all,
> after my unsuccessful try to run Apache 2 with mod_python and Python
> 2.3, I am looking for an alternative approach.
> My aim is to write a small web-based application:
>
> Python
> - the solution must be based / usable on Python 2.3
>
> Portability
> Targeted plaforms are
> - Windows 2000 Server
> - Windows XP Pro
> - AIX 5.1
>
> Webserver:
> - supporting up to 50 concurrent client connections
> - must be able to use Python 2.3 to create dynamic pages
> I can think of 3 alternatives to Apache:
> - Medusa
> - Twisted
> - Zope
> Which one is the easiest to work with? Which one is known to work on an
> AIX 5.1 platform, for instance?

I've worked with Zope, Medusa and Twisted. If you can use anything found on
www.zope.org under resource and like to do everything in a webpage, not
doing much programming yourself, then Zope might be the thing. It covers the
python-code a bit much for my taste ( a bit being a huge understatement ).

Medusa is easy to work with but I had some problems with blocking and
form-handling ( mainly posted files etc. ) but it might have been my lack of
understanding back then.

Twisted is very easy to get a grip on if you stay away from Woven and use
the resource-class yourself. I can produce a very simple example if you
like. I find Twisted to have a very steep learning curve in some areas and
the project do have a feeling being "under construction", but the
developers/mailing-list are very friendly and helpful and glad for input.

I haven't done anything on AIX so I don't know anything about portability.
I'd go for Twisted if you want control, Zope if you can use any existing
"product" available at zope.

>
> Persistent storage
> - Is ZODB easily usable from outside Python, i.e. to produce reports
> without reverting to programming?
> - Is MySQL with Python a good combination?

MySQL is easy to work with using Python, so yes. My experience with ZODB has
not been good. I had problems compiling earlier version of it ( probably my
fault but still ) and I quickly found out that I needed SQL to be able to
store and retrieve data the way I wanted. If MySQL is too much for you take
a look at SQLite, it has a python-module and easy to install/distribute and
it is a "real" sql-database, ie. it can understand SQL and feels like a
SQL-database.

Thomas W





From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep 16 16:12:13 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 22:12:13 +0200
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bk7lq1$qicfh$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de> <bk7mkg$4s$1@news.peterlink.ru> <FHJ9b.13226$x21.7557@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m3llso4hnm.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> writes:

> Will it be lower-case (together with false and true) like all other
> keywords or is it just a start of mess?

It is a start of mess.

Actually, None will be the first in a new category of token, the
"reserved identifiers". The exact lexical properties of such tokens
still need to be determined, and it might be that None is only the
second in its category, following "as".

Martin



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep 26 12:11:28 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 17:11:28 +0100
Subject: Python embedded in C & memory releasing
References: <63701d2f.0309231819.31fdec85@posting.google.com> <87vfri14a3.fsf@pobox.com> <B9Vcb.171250$R32.5477166@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <87y8wbbkcv.fsf@pobox.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> John J. Lee wrote:
[...]
> > On almost all OSes, processes hold on to all memory that has been
> > allocated by the OS.  Memory released by a process can only be reused
> > *by that same process*.  The OS only gets it back when the process
> > exits.
> 
> This is not true any more these days!!!  Consider the following program:
[...]
>   PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
> 32606 pts/6    T      0:00     73     1  1330  276  0.0 ./a.out
[...]
> 32606 pts/6    T      0:00     82     1  2362  320  0.0 ./a.out
[...]
> 32606 pts/6    T      0:00     82     1  1334  316  0.0 ./a.out
[...]

Well, you live and learn.  :-)


John



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 17:57:49 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:57:49 -0500
Subject: Python Glossary
In-Reply-To: <20030924201127.GA5122@nl.linux.org>
References: <16241.53538.40615.455582@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <20030924201127.GA5122@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <16242.4957.967892.67902@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Gerrit> Skip Montanaro wrote:

    >> Thanks to people who submitted content for the Python Glossary:
    >> 
    >> http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary

    Gerrit> I think it may also be useful to add some terms that are not
    Gerrit> related to programming, but do occur in the tutorial and may be
    Gerrit> difficult for some users.

Agreed.  

    Gerrit> When I first read the tutorial (years ago), I was really
    Gerrit> frightened by the section on complex numbers. 

Yes, complex numbers would be a good addition.  There is a note on above
Wiki which indicates how to submit a term for which you don't know a
definition.  Simply enter it as (for example)

 * complex number - ???

Someone else who comes along can fill in the definition.

    Gerrit> I would have been helped then by a note that I would not need
    Gerrit> them, and maybe even a short introduction of what they are
    Gerrit> (however, I was 14, so I would probably not be able to
    Gerrit> understand them).

You kids... ;-) When I was 14 I don't think I knew what a computer was.  We
learned how to use slide rules in algebra class.  They didn't get any
computers at my high school until at least a couple years after I graduated.

Skip




From raims at dot.com  Mon Sep 29 08:48:59 2003
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:48:59 +0200
Subject: What's the best MP3 (ID3) access library to use?
References: <182bcf76.0309290349.452a6643@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87ekxzg3pg.fsf@voodoo.fake>

paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore) writes:

> I'm looking for a Python library to access ID3 information in MP3
> files. A search of Parnassus picked up a number of possibilities, but
> I can't work out which best suits what I'm trying to do. Some seem out
> of date, others are Unix only, etc. There doesn't seem to be an
> obvious "standard" module to use.

Try this: id3-py.sf.net
It should work on Windows but I haven't tested yet

-- 
Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
http://loluyede.blogspot.com
rhymes at NOSPAMmyself.com



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep  2 18:09:42 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 02 Sep 2003 23:09:42 +0100
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <yra3b.6546$Jh2.2048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <23891c90.0308280317.ac68b38@posting.google.com> <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <biqve2$qp0$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87y8x6x2op.fsf@pobox.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg at speakeasy.net>,
[...]
> OTOH, Perens is also (like me ;-) a self-described asshole.  When I saw
> him at the Waterside Conference earlier this year, he basically claimed
> that only assholes could make significant progress in the Open Source
> community.
[...]

Why?


John



From losnations at comcast.net  Wed Sep  3 22:08:17 2003
From: losnations at comcast.net (Marc)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:08:17 -0500
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
Message-ID: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com>

Hi all,

I was thinking about developing a drag and drop application and was curious
how difficult it is to do. Basically I want to have a set of objects that I
move around the screen and drop into place.

Anyone else ever done it? Got any tips?

Thanks,
Marc





From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Tue Sep 16 05:56:45 2003
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 09:56:45 GMT
Subject: stripping a string
References: <mailman.1063486343.1777.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bk6mot$38uia$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Leeds, Mark <mleeds at mlp.com> wrote:
 hello : i am very much a python novice because
> I only use it for preprocessing data that
> i send into another language called Splus.
>  
> I have the following problem that
> I have spent a lot of time on but I
> can't figure out.
>  
> I have a string called tickerstring
> that might be 
>  
> "ANL LN32"
>  
> and i want to get rid of the digit piece.
> so that i get "ANL LN"
>  
> i can't just take off the last two charcters
> because the string could also be
>  
> "ANL LN3" for example.
>  
> thanks to anyone who could explain
> how to do this ?
>  

If the numbers only occur at the end of the string:


    a = "ANL LN32"
    print a.rstrip("0123456789")

Greetings, Uwe.


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt   http://www.procoders.net                      
schmitt at procoders.net      "A service to open source is a service to mankind."



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 24 07:00:00 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:00:00 +0200
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <f4b2nv8vs81v6egonckq7935jmh6a8gku6@4ax.com> <2Udcb.1997$541.708@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bkrthm$8db$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> If you want the indices to match their original position, then you
> would need something like:
> 
>   >>> list(enumerate(mystr).iter_backwards())
>  [(2, 'c'), (1, 'b'), (0, 'a')]
> 
> The implementation would need to access both mystr.iterbackwards()
> and mystr.__len__().
> 
> At first glance, this is a can of worms, a pandora's box,
> a gordian knot, or some unnamed code smell unsuitable
> for this mixed metaphor.

You can count down starting at -1 for reverse enumeration and keep that can
of pandora's knots closed :-)

The only drawback I see would be that the following behaviour might not be
what you expect:

>>> [(i, c, "uvwxyz"[i]) for i, c in reverse_enumerate("abc")]
[(-1, 'c', 'z'), (-2, 'b', 'y'), (-3, 'a', 'x')]
>>>

Peter



From thanks200 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 30 21:16:29 2003
From: thanks200 at hotmail.com (Tom Hanks)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 18:16:29 -0700
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
References: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6152d0a0.0309301716.38e8d67d@posting.google.com>

Access class members... as members of the class! :)

class Server(threading.Thread):
    running = 0

    def run(self):
        Server.running = 1                # note added "Server."
        while Server.running:             # ditto, added "Server."
            print "do something here..."  

    def exit(self):
        Server.running = 0                # ditto, added "Server."

TTFN,
Tom.



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Sep 29 12:45:55 2003
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:45:55 -0700
Subject: A startup puzzle
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E02F6D8@opus.HQAMOR.amorhq.net>

Consider placing initialization code in the __init__.py file for your package?
 
Robert Brewer

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Edward K. Ream [mailto:edreamleo at charter.net] 
	Sent: Mon 9/29/2003 9:31 AM 
	To: python-list at python.org 
	Cc: 
	Subject: A startup puzzle
	
	

	I've just about convinced myself there is no good, clean solution to the
	following puzzle.  I wonder if you agree.
	
	1. My app has a module called leoGlobals that contains often-used global
	functions.  All of Leo's source files start with:
	
	from leoGlobals import *
	
	I don't want to discuss whether this is good style: it is simple and it
	works well for me :-)
	
	2.  All code accesses the singleton application object using the app()
	method in leoGlobals.
	
	3.  To make the code cleaner looking, I would really like the code to be
	able to access an app global instead of the app() function.  This has
	nothing to do with speed: it's simply that there are lots of references to
	app() in the code, and there is soon going to be a lot more references to
	app.gui.x() and app.gui.y() etc.
	
	As a workaround, many methods and functions assign a = app(), but I would
	like to avoid this step.
	
	4. Alas, it does not seem possible to initialize an app global in
	leoGlobals.  The reason is simple:
	
	from leoGlobals import *
	
	caches the value of app at the time the  import is done.  But the startup
	code that creates the app "global" (really an attribute of the leoGlobals
	module) must do _other_ imports.
	
	For example, doing the following at the top of leoGlobals doesn't work:
	
	import leoApp
	app = leoApp.leoApp() # construct the app instance.
	
	Indeed, the leoApp module will be imported before the assignment of app.
	Moreover, the leoApp module does other imports, and all the app variables in
	those modules will be uninitialized.
	
	It would be horrible style to place detailed constraints on the order in
	which modules get imported, and I'm not sure even that would work.
	
	Any ideas for a clean solution?  Thanks.
	
	Edward
	
	P.S.  The solution must work in 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3.
	
	EKR
	--------------------------------------------------------------------
	Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
	Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
	Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
	--------------------------------------------------------------------
	
	
	--
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
	


From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep 16 15:11:56 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 20:11:56 +0100
Subject: Pipe problem
References: <9GH8b.2074$Cu3.689@edtnps84> <slrnbme3tq.err.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <87y8wownsz.fsf@pobox.com>

Albert Hofkamp <hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl> writes:

> On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:34:13 GMT, Doug <no.email.you.must.phone.me at fu.bar.ws> wrote:
> > This works with a small string, but not a large one (read returns an 
> > empty string if i pass a large html file to tidy):
> > 
> > 
> > >>> iin , iiout = popen2("tidy.exe -asxml")
> > >>> iin.write(str)
> > >>> iin.close()
> > >>> iiout.read()
[...]

Didn't see the OP, but (guessing tidy.exe is HTMLTidy): do you know
about mxTidy and uTidylib?


John



From joonas.paalasmaa at iki.fi  Fri Sep  5 17:16:16 2003
From: joonas.paalasmaa at iki.fi (Joonas Paalasmaa)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 14:16:16 -0700
Subject: _imp__* linking errors when compiling extension using Mingw
Message-ID: <1a50a43.0309051316.51f3fc72@posting.google.com>

Hi,

When compiling Sketch's streamfilter C extension the errors below are
raised during linking. What could cause the errors?
(Python 2.3, MinGw 1.1 with GCC 2.95.3-6, Windows 98)

Here are the occurrences of FilterType that may be relevant:
-------
C:\sketch\sketch-0.7.12\Filter\filterobj.c: 949: PyTypeObject
FilterType = {
C:\sketch\sketch-0.7.12\Filter\filterobj.h: 89: extern
DL_IMPORT(PyTypeObject) FilterType;
-------

setup.py contents:
-------
from distutils.core import setup, Extension
filter_dir = "Filter/"
setup(name = "sketch", ext_modules=[
    Extension("streamfilter", [filter_dir+filename for filename in 
             ("streamfilter.c",  "filterobj.c", "linefilter.c",
              "subfilefilter.c", "base64filter.c","nullfilter.c",
              "stringfilter.c", "binfile.c", "hexfilter.c")])])
-------

Linking errors:
-------
running build
running build_ext
building 'streamfilter' extension
creating build
creating build\temp.win32-2.3
creating build\temp.win32-2.3\Release
creating build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/linefilter.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\linefilter.o
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/filterobj.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\filterobj.o
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/nullfilter.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\nullfilter.o
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/hexfilter.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\hexfilter.o
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/streamfilter.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\streamfilter.o
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/binfile.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\binfile.o
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/base64filter.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\base64filter.o
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/stringfilter.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\stringfilter.o
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -O -Wall -IC:\PYTHON\include
-IC:\PYTHON\PC -c Filter/subfilefilter.c -o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\subfilefilter.o
writing build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\streamfilter.def
creating build\lib.win32-2.3
C:\MINGW\BIN\gcc.exe -mno-cygwin -mdll -static -s
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\streamfilter.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\filterobj.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\linefilter.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\subfilefilter.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\base64filter.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\nullfilter.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\stringfilter.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\binfile.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\hexfilter.o
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\streamfilter.def -LC:\PYTHON\libs
-LC:\PYTHON\PCBuild -lpython23 -o build\lib.win32-2.3\streamfilter.pyd
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\streamfilter.o(.text+0xda):streamfilter.c:
undefined reference to `_imp__FilterType'
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\filterobj.o(.text+0xdf):filterobj.c:
undefined reference to `_imp__FilterType'
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\filterobj.o(.text+0x21e):filterobj.c:
undefined reference to `_imp__FilterType'
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\filterobj.o(.text+0x534):filterobj.c:
undefined reference to `_imp__FilterType'
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\filterobj.o(.text+0x604):filterobj.c:
undefined reference to `_imp__FilterType'
build\temp.win32-2.3\Release\filter\filterobj.o(.text+0x64e):filterobj.c:
more undefined references to `_imp__FilterType' follow
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
-------



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Sep 18 10:15:12 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:15:12 -0300
Subject: Money data type
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F9A@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- One should be very wary of using floating point arithmetic 
#- when dealing 
#- with money.

Engaged in a discussion with Andy Jewell, I couldn't prove him why!

Do you know why? Have an example?






. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
Telef?nica Comunicaciones Personales S.A. no aceptar? ninguna obligaci?n
cualquiera sea el resultante de este mensaje. 

Muchas Gracias.
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From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Sep 16 07:05:14 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:05:14 +0200
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com> <L%06b.18004$hE5.637245@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309110734.1e5d28be@posting.google.com> <87y8wvfd6d.fsf@pobox.com> <RXLY/kKkXU4e092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1063303282.4058.python-list@python.org> <bjt1eq$dui$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bk6qst$s0v$1@news.hccnet.nl>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

<$87 bn>

>Just trying to get a concept of what these numbers
>mean. Or could have meant.

See also:

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0337/baard.php

Anton




From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Sep 27 11:25:45 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:25:45 +0200
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <10c662fe.0309270545.1fd5d839@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl4a8b$7ud$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Roberto A. F. De Almeida wrote:

> The problem with b[:-1][:-1] is that it will return b[:-1], and then
> slice the result again. It's ok if you're working with lists, but not
> for what I'm doing.
> 
> I'm working in a client to access OPeNDAP servers. It's basically data
> served through http, with some metadata and the ability to specify the
> variables and ranges you want.

[...]

> Data is only retrieved when you slice a variable like above, and only
> the data sliced is requested from the OPeNDAP server, instead of the
> whole range. If I use multiple slices, eg,
> 
>>>> A = data.variables["A"][1:10][1:5][6]
> 
> then first the client will have to download A[1:10][:][:], and slice
> it later -- more data than needed will be retrieved. If instead I pass
> a tuple of slices, I can construct the URL
> 
>   http://server/cgi-bin/opendap/dataset.nc.dods?A[1:10][1:5][6]
> 
> and request from the server only the data that will be used, and
> return it as a Numeric array.
> 
> Roberto

Have you thought about a proxy class on the client side?
It can defer the actual server access until it has the slice/index
information for all dimensions:

<code>
class Proxy:
    def __init__(self, dims, slices=None):
        if slices == None:
            self.slices = []
        else:
            self.slices = slices[:]
        self.dims = dims

    def fetchData(self, index):
        return "fetching data: " + str(self.slices + [index])
    def __len__(self):
        return self.dims[0]
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        if len(self.dims) == 1:
            return self.fetchData(index)
        return Proxy(self.dims[1:], self.slices + [index])
    def __str__(self):
        return "data access deferred"

p = Proxy([10, 42, 9])
print p[:4]
print p[:-1][:-2][:-3]
print p[1][-2][:-3]

q = Proxy([0]*3)
print q[:4]
print q[:-1][:-2][:-3]
print q[1][-2][:-3]
</code>

If I have understood you right, the above should be a workable solution.
If you do not know the nested arrays' lengths beforehand, you could
implement __len__() to always return 0, which saves you from an
AttributeError for negative indices.

Peter




From achrist at easystreet.com  Wed Sep 10 17:39:14 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:39:14 -0700
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F82A5.7DB9A717@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F9A02.D1A5ACAA@easystreet.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> 
> Yep:
> 
>         generator.next()
> 

This style supports only output-driven processes.  The generator,
being on the input side, is always the server, and the output
side is always the client.  It doesn't fit the situation where the
input is heterogeneous and input has to get spewed in several
directions, depending on its content.


Al



From falseaddy at here.org  Fri Sep 19 18:04:15 2003
From: falseaddy at here.org (Dfenestr8)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:04:15 +0900
Subject: Mandrake Linux 9: Why isn't bsddb working?
References: <bka45f$q6rg1$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063820907.15026.python-list@python.org> <bkb385$r8u2n$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063895247.17694.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkfug2$1dovr$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:26:49 +0000, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     >> What might I have done wrong, and/or what should I do to fix it? 
> 
>     Skip> You probably don't have the necessary -devel RPM installed.
> 
>     >> That might have been true while I was using the rpm package.
> 
>     >> But currently I'm using the source package Python-2.3.tgz.
> 
> Doesn't matter.  The _bsddb module can't be built if the relevant header
> files and libraries are not in place.
> 
> Skip

The rpm -devel package just won't install unless it detects I have python
itself installed as an rpm. And I kind of like the version of IDLE that
comes with Python 2.3, so I'd rather keep it. (Also, I'm not completely
sure how to uninstall it. "make uninstall" doesn't work).

So is there no way I can get the correct header files from source? 




From sami.viitanen at pp6.inet.fi  Mon Sep 29 12:10:06 2003
From: sami.viitanen at pp6.inet.fi (Sami Viitanen)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:10:06 GMT
Subject: Python os.popen in Linux
Message-ID: <yPYdb.369$2r2.112@read3.inet.fi>

Hello,

I was using os.popen function to get CVS command output to string from
script..

Same commands worked well with Windows, but Linux seems to have problem with
those. Whole CVS commands seem to froze or given commands aren't executed
right
at all. I had to replace os.popen commands with os.system. os.system
commands just
print additional information to screen that is not necessary at all.

Any ideas what may cause this ?

Example of "os.popens" that were not executed correctly:

# Freezes files one at the time
def sfnFreezeFiles(sModFiles,sTagOld):
    lModFiles = string.split(sModFiles)                 # Makes list out of
string
    x = 0
    while x < len(lModFiles):                                       # While
files in list
        iFilePoint = string.rfind(lModFiles[x],'/',1)               # Seeks
last '/' -char from string
        sModFile = lModFiles[x]
        sDir = sModFile[:iFilePoint]                                #
Directory = from start to last '/'
        sModFile = sModFile[iFilePoint+1:]                          # File =
from last '/' to end of string
        ColorPrint.fnPrintExecute('Freezing: %s %s' % (sDir,sModFile))
        sCurrentDir = os.getcwd()                                   # Get
current working directory
        os.chdir(sDir)                                              # Change
directory
        os.popen('cvs update -A %s' % sModFile)                     # Remove
sticky-tag from file   <----- OS.POPEN
        os.popen('cvs ci '+sModFile)                                #
Checkin file                                    <----- OS.POPEN
        os.chdir(sCurrentDir)                                       # Change
directory back
        x = x+1
    return len(lModFiles)


Thanks in advance. --SV





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Sep 16 08:07:49 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:07:49 GMT
Subject: wanted($):  mac and linux python gui coders for porting
References: <EHr9b.36540$n94.18214@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <p2D9b.11602$3Y2.8940@news2.central.cox.net>

Oops, you said "shareware". Guess the SourceForge route wouldn't be for you,
then. Sorry!

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/


"Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> wrote in message
news:EHr9b.36540$n94.18214 at fed1read04...
> (I apologize in advance if this is not an appropriate posting)
>
> I have written a simple windows shareware app, EzPicMailer, in Python 2.3,
> wxPython 2.4.1, and PIL 1.1.4  that lets computer novices find photo
files,
> edit them, and mail them, all in one simple app.  Everyone is encouraged
to
> check out my beta version at http://EzPicMailer.com.
>
> I wrote it to be cross-platform except for a small amout of windows code
to
> do the system beep and to find the desktop and home folders.
>
> Now I need a Mac programmer and a Linux programmer to port to these
> environments for me.  I'm new to shareware but I'm guessing that paying
10%
> of gross license receipts would be fair.  I put in close to 200 hours into
> the app and I'm assuming that 20 hours to do a decent looking port would
be
> about right, which gives 10% of the effort.  Let me know if I'm off-base
> here.
>
> You will also be responsible for a second line of support for your
platform.
> In other words you will need to fix problems particular to your platform
to
> keep your royalty flow.  You will not have to talk to customers though.
> That is what I mean by second-line.
>
> If you are interested, please tell me about yourself and point me to some
of
> your existing work with GUI's.
>
>
>





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 05:24:48 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:24:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <mailman.1063300996.11325.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93F4693C38142duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote in 
news:mailman.1063300996.11325.python-list at python.org:

> I started by looking for use cases... where would this proposed
> pass-by-reference actually prove useful? Stephen basically found
> one good use case:
> 
>   I wish to "transfer ownership" of an object that gets passed
>   into a method call, and protect against the caller accidently
>   continuing to use the object. [So, we'll use a "ref" parameter and
>   set the caller's variable to None.]

That only works if the caller hasn't assigned that object to any other 
variables. If they have, they can still accidentally continue to use the 
object. Since you have to trust the caller anyway, why not trust them to 
stop using the object?

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 18:45:38 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 23:45:38 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <3F5B362F.B5CCC6F2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <87wucki5f1.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Tim Parkin wrote:
> > 
> > As a side note, I haven't been to any school of 'control the user
> > experience'. Furthermore I think making comments such as accusing me of
> > having a 'childish ego' and being 'arrogant' are IMO extremely
> > disrespectful and I would appreciate an apology. I am quite hurt and 
> > dissapointed to see such coments on what I had considered a respectable 
> > forum for discussion although I'm sure they are not representative.
> 
> On behalf of those with the nasty fingers today, I apologize.  Tim,
> they must have missed the relatively clear warnings that these
> are *mockups*, and posted for discussion purposes.  I agree also
> that harsh public criticism without constructive comments is 
> wholly unwarranted, and out of order around here, not to mention
> (thankfully) rather atypical.
[...]

Me too.  Haven't followed the discussion closely or looked at the
mockup, but some of the responses looked way over the top.

I hope this doesn't stop you continuing with your efforts, Tim.  Some
people here do appreciate the work you're putting in.


John



From zzuvz at aon.at  Tue Sep  9 05:38:13 2003
From: zzuvz at aon.at (daniel)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:38:13 +0200
Subject: GUI
Message-ID: <3f5d9fad$0$31720$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>

hello,

I'm new to python but I known other
languages like ruby or php...

I've found a tiny script in the net with
throws an error, that the modules 'GUI' is
not known - in this line
'import GUI, struct'


In the net I haven't found a GUI module -
where I can get it?



daniel




From brucedickey at micron.com  Mon Sep 29 13:17:55 2003
From: brucedickey at micron.com (Bruce Dickey)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:17:55 -0600
Subject: Meta programming question
References: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com> <znzdb.132998$hE5.4530954@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bl9pg2$5f7$1@admin-svc.micron.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:znzdb.132998$hE5.4530954 at news1.tin.it...
> Bruce Dickey wrote:
>
> > I've read a number of the meta progamming articles. I have not found
> > what I am looking for. I want to override assignments to variables which
> > are in the module namespace (not object members -- no classes involved).
> > Can this be done?
>
> No (not without, as somebody already suggested, rewriting substantial
> portions of Python's C-level implementation).  A module-level statement
>
>     <name> = <expression>
>
> evaluates the expression, and sets the name to refer to its value -- no
> ifs, no buts, no overriding, and nothing to do with metaprogramming.
>
>
> Alex
>

I think the path of least resistance is to preprocess a  (non-Python)
grammar language. My OP was a shot in the dark.

Thanks,

Bruce





From ken at perfect-image.com  Wed Sep 17 23:37:34 2003
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:37:34 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com>
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F69287E.7080306@perfect-image.com>

Lothar Scholz wrote:
> Ken Godee <ken at perfect-image.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> 
>>I downloaded the demo and as far as I can tell it's fully fuctional
>>Here's a quote from the opening screen......
> 
> 
> and heres a quote from the web site.
> 
> ------------
> A demonstration version of BlackAdder can be downloaded at no charge.
> The demonstration version has the following limitations.
> You cannot save any changes to Python or Ruby scripts or GUI form
> designs.
> 
> There is no HTML documentation. 
> 
> There is no Python Qt extension module. You can download this for
> yourself from the PyQt/PyKDE homepage.
> 
> There is no ODBC connectivity. You can download this for yourself from
> http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/eGenix-mx-Extensions.html.
> ----
> 
> i hope that there support for the program is better then the support
> for their website. Everything in the last weeks doesn't look very
> promising.

I downloaded it all right from there site, Qt<->python converted html 
docs as well (except ODBC, on win32 I use pyscopg).

Know matter how you look at it, This is a GREAT DEAL, just for the 
Qt/pyqt license issue's alone!
The kompany has put together a good deal with Trolltech and riverbank 
for python users. $79 personal and $399 commercial with rights to 
distribute the run-time elements.
I guess one could stick with straight c++ and pay trolltech $2,000 plus 
per developer instead if you wanted to :)
(opps, for win32 platform development might want to spend another grand+ 
to compile with MS VC++ compiler)












From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Wed Sep  3 08:42:27 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:42:27 -0400
Subject: artifical intelligence
Message-ID: <000501c37218$d59b9270$0c02a8c0@Arts>

Alex writes -

>The single line of text following this one is >one of the longest I've
>ever seen posted to Usenet - my compliments.

Yeah.  That seems to happen when I send from my on-line mailbaox, rahter
than from my desktop.  Annoying.  No idea why.


>Actually, I stick with our line from back in >the '80s, when I was doing
>speech recognition with IBM Research on a >strictly probabilistic basis:
>what we had on our T-shirts was
>P(A|B) = P(B|A)P(A)/P(B)
>and you know, there IS really nothing more to >it than this formula from
>1764... almost;-). And, it IS easy to program, >if programmers were in
>fact humble enough to study and apply >statistics and probability rather
>than looking for "artificial intelligence" >silver bullets!-)

I guess what I am obliquely addressing - as a dilletante, of course - is the
ultimate claims of the potential of AI.

AI is ultimately artificial not in that it artificially mimics
intelligence - but that it does so within the confines of an artifically
defined reality.  Though it can certainly be useful, as such.

I don't believe, though, that AI can ever deal adequately with the reality
of reality - the universe of *all* possibilities. On the question of risk
assessment, specifically.  Its not a matter of processing power, or
programming intelligance.  Ultimately, there is an unavoidable Nan that
can't be overcome.

Risk assessment in respect to the universe of all possiblities *is* the
survival instinct.  It's truly Frankensteinish to believe it can be mimiced.
IMO.

Art





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 26 10:59:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:59:59 -0400
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <3F74546F.AF665B35@engcorp.com>

David Abrahams wrote:
> 
> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
> disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where are they?

Why on the the Documentation page, of course.  ;-)

-Peter



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Sep 26 11:03:12 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:03:12 -0400
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <wxYcb.12372$yD1.1504223@news20.bellglobal.com>

"David Abrahams" <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:un0crhase.fsf at boost-consulting.com...
>
> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
> disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where are they?
>
> -- 
> Dave Abrahams
> Boost Consulting
> www.boost-consulting.com

Hi.
They're at http://www.python.org/peps/. They are found by following the
"Documentation" link (top right of main page), and then clicking the PEPs
link at the bottom of that page.
(Having a link to http://www.python.org/doc/, the general Python
documentation page, in the Documentation section on the left of the main
page would be repetitive, but I think it would be useful. I don't really
notice the links at the top of the page. The only reason I found them is
because I was trying to figure out how someone is meant to navigate to the
PEPs page, so I looked over the entire page carefully. Normally, I just look
at the sections on the left side of the main page for navigation purposes.)

HTH
Sean





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 19:11:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:11:14 -0400
Subject: Memory allocation
References: <mailman.1064263836.31956.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6F8192.450A9D6C@engcorp.com>

"Batista, Facundo" wrote:
> 
> #- Knowing how much memory the object consumes will not help you with
> #- that, at least in general.  The object could easily be changed in a
> #- dozen ways yet still consume the same amount of memory.
> 
> No, sorry. Knowing how much memory consumes, gives me if it's a viable
> solution.

Hmm... you mean the memory consumption had nothing to do with detecting
the change?  You just want to know if holding the pickled object in 
memory is viable?  If that's what you mean, I must be missing something...
a pickle is just a serialized (i.e. flat) representation of the data
as a series of bytes, right?  In other words, a string?  So call len()
on it...  (as I said, that sounds too easy so I must be missing something).

> But, there is a way to know the memory consumption?

Not really, although I suspect there have been past postings to the 
newsgroup (maybe check the archives) in which people have experimented
with partial solutions to this problem.  It's not generally something
that seems to come up very often.

-Peter



From alisonken1 at juno.com  Tue Sep 16 16:46:49 2003
From: alisonken1 at juno.com (Ken Roberts)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 13:46:49 -0700
Subject: from clipper move to python
References: <mailman.1063605800.2328.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c26362ae.0309161246.30596c72@posting.google.com>

ads <ads at chead.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063605800.2328.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm starting learning python about 2 weeks, and still have
> difficulties to create GUI based application because I never learn
> about classes and other OOP things. Does anyone knows how to
> create text console application like clipper using python.
> 
> Thanks,

For those who ask - clipper is a programming language that is a
compiled version of dBase relational database scripting language.



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Sep 20 10:15:45 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:15:45 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl>

jblazi <jblazi at hotmail.com> wrote:

>I should like to search certain characters in a string and when they are
>found, I want to replace other characters in other strings that are at
>the same position (for a very simply mastermind game) for my pupils.
>
>This very simple thing does not seem simple at all.
>
>If I use strings, I cannot replace their parts (though I can use
>string.find for the searching). I think it is a bad idea that strings are
>not mutable, but I suspect that this has been discussed here for ages.
>
>I can use sequences instead, but then first I have to 'split' and 'join'.
>Additionally, there is no 'find' for sequences (who knows why not) and so
>I can choose between using 'index' that raises an exception (and we have
>not covered exceptions yet) or I can ask whether the character is in the
>string before using 'index' which is a bit artificial from the point of
>view of my pupils. (It is all right with me.)
>
>Do I oversee something?

Yes, UserString. The documentation is a bit sparse, but reading the
module itself provides additional information. Below is a quick test
script.

HTH,

Anton


from UserString import MutableString

def test():
    s = MutableString("helo world")
    print s
    x = 'helo'
    y = 'hello'
    i = s.find(x)
    s[i:i+len(x)] = y
    print s
    
if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

#output:
#helo world
#hello world




From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Fri Sep  5 11:09:27 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:09:27 +0100
Subject: in Ram database?
In-Reply-To: <vlh7sqn1t375ff@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list@python.org> <vlh7sqn1t375ff@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bja94e$fr6$1@sea.gmane.org>

John Roth wrote:

> "John D." <lists at webcrunchers.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>Does anyone know if there is an "in-ram" dictionary based database
>>for Python.
>>
>>I can see some applications where this can really be powerful in
>>applications requiring 10,000 records or less.
>>
>>Is such a database available?   If so,  who is working on it,
>>or where is it?
>>
>>I've heard that Python supports a stand-alone database.   I looked
>>for it in the Docs,  and see the "dbm" module.   I haven't found
>>any examples of code,  so don't know how to use them.   I'm one
>>of those guys that learn through examples,  and have very little
>>luck in figuring out how to use anything unless I can see examples
>>of their use.
>>
>>My idea is that ALL datums would be Python Dictionary objects,  so
>>not only can you store data,  but python objects as well.
>>
>>Storage to disk would be through pickled files,  or through CSV
>>format,  allowing easy import and export from other databases.
>>
>>I'm sure something like this exists,  I just haven't found it yet,
>>and if not,  then I'm well on my way of implementing one myself.
>>
>>I kinda like the idea of being able to define smaller tables as
>>"in-memory" types,  and the really large massive ones in other forms
>>managed by mySQL, PostGres, or bsddb3 databases.
>>
>>Any leads you guys???
> 
> 
> Look at Prevalyar. While it's a Java project, it might give
> you some ideas about what's possible if you forget "data base"
> and simply think "persistance."
> 
> John Roth
> 
>>JD
>>

Or you could look at the Python port of Prevayler (well, thats how it 
started out);

http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PyPerSyst

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 16 16:40:03 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:40:03 -0400
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <3f675ecd$0$97184$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <5MJ9b.13244$x21.9088@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <vmet8r7on91u72@news.supernews.com>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5MJ9b.13244$x21.9088 at twister.southeast.rr.com...
>
> "Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message
news:3f675ecd$0$97184$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk...
> >
> > Yes. You assign new values to the objects None, False and True. You then
> > print out those values in a tuple.
> >
> > What's not to understand?
> >
> > But for others reading your programme you might be better of to keep
> > them their normal values.
>
> Which are ...?
>
> I mean what are None, False and True? Are they just identifiers? Are they
> variables defined in __builtins__? Are they literals? Are they language
"bricks"
> like "for" and "1"?

As of 2.3, they are unique objects in the builtins name space. As such,
they can be shadowed, which is what causes the confusion.

John Roth
>
>





From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 18:44:11 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 23:44:11 +0100
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com> <L%06b.18004$hE5.637245@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309110734.1e5d28be@posting.google.com> <87y8wvfd6d.fsf@pobox.com> <RXLY/kKkXU4e092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1063303282.4058.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871xun6j44.fsf@pobox.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) writes:

> jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote previously:
> |Pearson and O'Reilly owned by a single company, or something?  I have
> |a vague recollection that Pearson owns some other companies...
> 
> There's been a huge amount of consolidation in publishing.  Pearson is
> not the parent of Addison-Wesley, Longman, Benjamin Cumming, New Riders,
> Peachpit, Cisco Press, Prentice Hall, SAMS, Que, and several more
> imprints.  It's really a rather bad thing,

(That should have been "now the parent...", I assume.)

Wow.  :-(

Actually, doesn't Pearson own some stuff outside of publishing too?
That's what ISTR hearing about recently...


> although they do not seem to
> use the degree of ideological acid-test that, say, MediaCorp
> acquisitions do.

What are you referring to there?  Is Mediacorp Rupert's company?
What's this about ideological acid-tests?


> That said, I'm pretty sure that O'Reilly remains one of the few
> independent publishers of technical books.  I think Manning is also.

By technical books, do you mean computing books?  I've no idea what
goes on with other fields, but I don't doubt they've been
'consolidating' too (and, of course, AW, Longman, Prentice Hall
themselves publish(ed) a broad range).

So, *is* Pearson's 'Safari' the same as O'Reilly's?  I thought Alex
had mentioned Pearson in that connection.  Too lazy to check.


John



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 17:07:31 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:07:31 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <bjg2ea$cvp$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <003001c37584$13c36050$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Aahz:
> Don't worry -- some people think that's redundant, but Guido has
> Prounounced that it will stay.
Perhaps Guido or yourself could inform us of any other requirements. As
far as I am aware this was never mentioned to anyone working on the
design effort.

Tim






From daniel at dittmar.net  Tue Sep 30 15:01:59 2003
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:01:59 +0200
Subject: Python Windows Source?
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0309300954.29b155d@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0309300954.29b155d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <blcjvb$dio$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Paradox wrote:
> This seems like a simple question but I keep looking and can't seem to
> find it anywhere. Do I have to check it out directly from CVS. Is
> there anywhere I can download the source already compiled. All I
> really want is to be able to compile PIL.

If you want to compile an extension like PIL on Windows, then everything 
needed is part of the normal installer. Assuming you installed Python to 
c:\Python23, then you'll need the include files at c:\Python23\include 
and the import library at c:\Python23\libs\python23.lib.

Daniel




From xnews at fredp.lautre.net  Sun Sep 21 16:41:15 2003
From: xnews at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 20:41:15 GMT
Subject: Anyone has "pyuploader.zip" from Parnassus ?
References: <mailman.1064159370.7298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93FDE737AF5E8PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75>

eltronic at juno.com said :

> yeh wayback! they don't always archive archives, 
> maybe only if they are small enough. its the first 
> place to look if you need to look at some page that
> no longer exists, or to see what an earlier version
> of the page looks like.
> when persistence is futile use the wayback machine.

Great tip ! I knew of the WM as a curiosity or a sort of museum, but hadn't 
thought of using it like this. It got me the file, though... Nice stuff, 
thanks !

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/



From gez_75 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 29 17:03:44 2003
From: gez_75 at hotmail.com (gez)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:03:44 +0200
Subject: Wavelet package available?
References: <2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d@posting.google.com> <z4adnU-lwpqa1eWiU-KYjA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bla6kk$mps$1@reader10.wxs.nl>

Why this stupid answer? I tried to find python in combination with wavelets,
both in the normal Google search engine and the Google groups search. Also
jpython/jython, etc. but non of the results was what I wanted to use. So,
that is why I posted it here. Think this is exacly the place to be...

Looked at wavelets.org, looked for Java implementations,etc.etc.

Btw, I once wrote a wavelets (de)composition in Delphi and C++Builder.  And
fyi, I looked up the faq. So, I am not a novice at all in this field, but I
just need a version in Python which I couldn't find.

So, please, think before you write such an answer. Not everybody is as
stupid as you think.

And even then. If someone doesn't know the correct search keywords for use
in Google, this place is still the place to be.

So please be more kind to the next poster that (in you eyes) posts a stupid
question.

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:z4adnU-lwpqa1eWiU-KYjA at comcast.com...
>
> "Gez" <gez_75 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d at posting.google.com...
> > Does anyone know if there is a wavelet package available for Python?
> > This package should at least have the Daubechy wavelet.
>
> Before posting a question like this and waiting hours for a reply, one
> should try a search engine like Google.  In this case, "Python
> wavelets"
>
> If this fails, then post question and note what you tried without
> success.  This tells responders both that you made an effort and also
> what they should not waste time on in trying to help you.
>
> Teaching-you-to-fish-ly yours,
>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>





From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Sat Sep  6 04:53:14 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:53:14 +0300
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <mailman.1062788891.30224.python-list@python.org>
 <bjaqpk$mnh$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <877k4mgux1.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

> "Juha Autero" <Juha.Autero at iki.fi>
>>
>> G?del, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid. It may not be the best
>> book I read and not very useful, but I'd recomend reading it anyway.
>>
>
> I made the same recommendation some minutes ago, but without your
> reservation. In fact I might even come to the conclusion it *is* the best
> book I have read ;-)

It is just too hard to say what is the best book I've ever read. Or
even best book on subject of IT or Python. That's why I didn' dare to
suggest that GEB was the best book.

> Why do you think it is not very useful? What do you think of Shakespeare by
> the way?

Poor choise of words. I was just trying to say that it's not as
practical as other books suggested here like Python Cookbook or
Mythical Man-Month. 

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Thu Sep 18 16:24:31 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:24:31 -0700
Subject: Python ISPs
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>

Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
solution.

                        Thanks Joey.



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Fri Sep 19 19:54:09 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 00:54:09 +0100
Subject: Passing data out of a Sax parser
Message-ID: <fe5nmv0mno1ib23ifekntp3v3u2er5bstt@4ax.com>

Is there a preferred way of passing data out of a Sax parser?  My Sax
content handler constructa an object for the rest of the program to
use, but I'm not sure how to pass it to the rest of the program.  Ways
I can see:

a. Put it in a global (blech!)

b. Add a parameter to the handler's __init__ method, that takes some
sort of mutable object, and put the answer into that object.

Is it one of these that I should do?  I suppose I could pass in the
owning parser, and put the result into a new member of the parser, but
I wonder if I'm missing something.

TIA.



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 09:23:52 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:23:52 GMT
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com> <VUidncLV5oQd88qiU-KYvw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <I706b.17723$hE5.626547@news1.tin.it>

Terry Reedy wrote:
   ...
> 'Returners' could wrap no-return mutators with functions or
> derived-class methods that do return the object, but I have never seen
> anyone post a complete module that does so for, say, all list
> mutators.

What about...:

def wrapReturning(func):
    def returningWrapper(*args, **kwds):
        func(*args, **kwds)
        return args[0]
    return returningWrapper


class metaReturner(type):
    ''' simplified metaReturner: deal with single inheritance only '''

    def __new__(mcl, className, classBases, classDict):

        # get the "real" base class, then wrap its mutators
        for base in classBases:
            if not isinstance(base, metaReturner):
                for mutator in classDict['__mutators__']:
                    classDict[mutator] = wrapReturning(getattr(base,
mutator))
                break

        # delegate the rest to built-in 'type'
        return type.__new__(mcl, className, classBases, classDict)

class Returner: __metaclass__ = metaReturner


# example usage

class returnerlist(Returner, list):
    __mutators__ = 'sort reverse append extend insert'.split()

print returnerlist('hello').extend('ciao').sort().reverse()


Alex




From ggg at zzz.it  Fri Sep 12 09:16:05 2003
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:16:05 +0200
Subject: Is there a web templating system like ruby's amrita ?
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0309120421.622cb55@posting.google.com>
References: <6ee58e07.0309120421.622cb55@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2bksjb.6rp.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

Lothar Scholz wrote:
> I there anything that completely avoid the use of python code inside 
> a template. I like the Amrita system because it allows me to design
> the templates with WYSIWYG editors and blind text.

never used amrita before, but i took a brief look
at the quick start:

http://www.brain-tokyo.jp/research/amrita/rdocs/files/docs/QuickStart.html

an this remembered my of PyMeld:

http://www.entrian.com/PyMeld/

you may like it.

bye
-- 
email: goldicus1970 AT yahoo.it
web: http://www.deelan.com




From barry at python.org  Mon Sep 29 09:24:31 2003
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:24:31 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Mailman 2.1.3
Message-ID: <16248.12943.161685.438279@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

I've released version 2.1.3 of Mailman, the GNU Mailing List Manager.
Mailman is released under the GNU General Public License (GPL).
Version 2.1.3 is a bug fix release which also contains support for
four new languages: Ukrainian, Serbian, Euskara (Basque), and Danish.
This release also contains a fix for a cross-site scripting
vulnerability, as well as improved queue runner performancey.  See the
links below for a detailed list of changes.

I recommend all sites running versions of the 2.1.x line upgrade to
the new version.

Mailman is free software that enables users to manage email mailing
lists and e-newsletters.  Its integrated web interface provides
easy-to-use access for list members and list administrators.  Mailman
supports built-in archiving, automatic bounce processing, content
filtering, digest delivery, spam filters, and more.

Mailman is compatible with most web servers, web browsers, and mail
servers.  It runs on any Unix-like operating system.  Mailman 2.1.3
requires Python 2.1.3 or newer.  To install Mailman from source, you
will need a C compiler.

For more information on Mailman, including links to file downloads,
please see any of the Mailman mirror web pages:

    http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
    http://mailman.sourceforge.net
    http://www.list.org (not yet updated)

Patches and source tarballs are available at

    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103

There are email lists (managed by Mailman, of course!) for both
Mailman users and developers.  See the web sites above for details.

Cheers,
-Barry




From imcmeans at telus.net  Tue Sep 16 17:38:16 2003
From: imcmeans at telus.net (Ian McMeans)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 14:38:16 -0700
Subject: scoping with lambda in loops
Message-ID: <7f9e1817.0309161338.20fbdcbc@posting.google.com>

I was bitten by a bug today that depended on how lambda works. It took
me quite a while to realize what was going on.

First, I made multiple lambda functions inside a loop, each of which
depended on the current loop variable.

>>> a = []
>>> for index in range(5):
	a.append(lambda: index)


Now, see if you can guess what the output was for each of the
functions in the list a:
>>> a[0](), a[1](), a[2](), a[3](), a[4]()
I had expected it to be (0, 1, 2, 3, 4), but actually, it's:

(4, 4, 4, 4, 4)

This really surprised me. I guess what is happening is that each
lambda knows what the context of execution is where it was defined,
and doesn't actually evaluate until the function is called, and when
it does evaluate, it uses the current value of the variable. Is this
related to static scoping? A similar thing would happen if you defined
a nested function that used a variable declared in the outer function,
then changed that variable, and called the nested function.

Can someone recommend a way to code around this gotcha? I'm having
trouble. I want the functions created inside the loop to execute with
the value of the loop index at the moment when the function is made.



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Sep  5 04:51:15 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:51:15 +0200
Subject: Database over 2gb
In-Reply-To: <71FAC84C4125D611B91F00B0D0D1D1C60FEE49@AFSNUMAIL>
References: <71FAC84C4125D611B91F00B0D0D1D1C60FEE49@AFSNUMAIL>
Message-ID: <3F584E83.3060801@ghaering.de>

AFSOUTH Internet Administration wrote:
> All,
> 
> Our python database has accidentally grown over 2Gb [...]

Which 'Python database'? ZODB?

-- Gerhard




From Ian.Sparks at etrials.com  Mon Sep 29 15:26:35 2003
From: Ian.Sparks at etrials.com (Ian Sparks)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:26:35 -0400
Subject: Package question.
Message-ID: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20C56@pippin.int.etrials.com>

I'm sure its been thrashed through a hundred times but googling for an answer left me more confused than before and yes, I did read the Tutorial (maybe not well enough, but I read it).

On Windows, I want to set up a package structure like :

Fred
  Bob
    test.py

So I can say :

from Fred.Bob import *

To do this I need to put the package on the python path. So I drop this into my python root in a file called Fred.pth :

C:\Fred\

Now I need to make sure that Fred and Bob both look like packages with empty __init__.py files like so :

C:\Fred
   __init__.py
C:\Fred\Bob
   __init__.py
    test.py

so :

C:\python.exe -c from Fred.Bob import *

OK!

But if I do :

C:\>cd Fred
C:\Fred>python.exe -c "from Fred.Bob import *"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named Fred.Bob

Now lets say I change my Fred.pth contents to C:\MyTest and put my whole directory structure under c:\MyTest :

C:\MyTest\Fred
     __init__.py
C:\MyTest\Fred\Bob
       __init__.py
        test.py


C:\>cd MyTest\Fred
C:\MyTest\Fred>python.exe -c "from Fred.Bob import *"

Works fine. 

Is this quirk expected? If yes, I would like to expand my python knowledge with the why.

Thanks for your attention on this long post.










From max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it  Thu Sep  4 03:29:57 2003
From: max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it (Max Ischenko)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:29:57 +0300
Subject: Interoperability between VB and Python under ASP
In-Reply-To: <ckx5b.1735$9P5.77107@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <bj46f2$kk2$1@voodoo.volia.net> <bb536467.0309031055.2fe6a661@posting.google.com> <ckx5b.1735$9P5.77107@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bj6piu$f3f$1@voodoo.volia.net>

Paul Paterson wrote:

>> I don't know if this will help, but it might be worth a shot.
>> http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/ I've never used it myself, I only point
>> it out as a curiosity I've heard of
> 
> 
> Although it isn't (currently) targetted at VBScript, the CVS version of 
> vb2py might help if you have reasonably sized blocks of VBScript code to 
> convert. It hasn't been tested on VBScipt specifically but the parser 
> should work for most things and I'd certainly be interested to hear of 
> any specific problems with ASP scripts.

That's seems like an interesting idea!
While I doubt that the conversion could (or, more appopriately, should) 
be done automatically, I'll check out your project, thanks.

> If you do decide to try this route, I'd be very interested to hear of 
> any specific issues that come up with translating ASP/VBScript to Python.

OK.


-- 
Regards, Max.




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep  9 12:59:15 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 09:59:15 -0700
Subject: A couple of OOPython questions
Message-ID: <1063126755.3f5e06e37ad07@mcherm.com>

Alexy Khrabrov writes:
> Reading python books feels a bit like reading Perl books -- although
> OO is there, some fundamental questions are not illuminated, and then
> OO comes after scripting or text, as in the Cookbook!

Good point. Many Python tutorials start with simple scripts because 
they're shorter, and save OO for later. It's a bit misleading because
short scripts may be easier to learn on, but most coding is done on
larger systems, where OO is very useful.

> E.g., a = b is a deep copy.

No, that's not true. The line "a = b" binds the name 'a' to the
object that the name 'b' is currently bound to. Nothing is copied.
Well, depending on implementation, perhaps some pointer somplace is
copied, but no PYTHON object is copied -- a and b will refer to the
same object.

> What are the equivalent of copy constructors?

Python has no equivalent, because all objects live "on the heap" and
are referenced via name binding.

> Here's another OO question for some real-life application, not that
> puny regex fun (or was that perl? :)...  I've developed a CORBA server
> for structural protein data, 
      [...]
> OK, now I go to my python prompt and I want to inspect my objects as
> returned by the CORBA server.  One of them represents an atom site.  I
> merrily type just its name to see the great unknown unwrap before my
> eyes.  Here:
> 
> >>> a
> <MMS.StructConf instance at 0x8cb1b44>

Aha... sounds like you want a way of printing out the full structure
of some object. Simply calling repr() on it (that's what gets printed
after each line of input) won't do that, at least not in the general 
case (simple lists and dicts DO dump their full contents to repr(),
but many objects don't).

Actually, the general problem is quite hard. What about objects which
contain OS-specific data (eg: file pointers). What about objects that
contain references to themselves (which is more common than you might
think)? One thing which I strongly recommend you to try is to get 
Python 2.3 and try out the version of Idle that comes with it. Start
it up and then try "Stack Viewer" from the Debug menu. It's exactly
the kind of thing you are thinking of here, except that instead of
printing it all out it provides a tree you can drill down into.

  [...]
> Printing out gazillion fields by hand for each class is silly, they
> only wrap strings and numbers and other objects of that nature.  I am
> ready to dive in a recursive descent.  No such luck -- whoever created
> CORBA bindings for python didn't make those objects dictionary-like!
  [...]
> Is there an easy way to write something _once_, general enough, to
> print out a hierarchy of nested objects which just don't have
> __getitem__, although every field is either a string or a number or
> another object?

Well, I'm sure there is SOME way to obtain them, but since I'm not
familiar with the omniORBpy objects, I'm not quite sure how. And
without knowing how to access them, I can't provide you with sample
code. But check out the trick I decribe above for Idle... I think it
may help you out.

-- Michael Chermside





From nobody at nowhere.near.here  Fri Sep 26 13:21:50 2003
From: nobody at nowhere.near.here (nobody)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:21:50 +0100
Subject: A bold new adventure in pain
References: <mailman.1064590475.20931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f7475b5$0$254$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>

Are you using PythonWin? IF yes than use tools->com makepy utility from the
menu. I think it does what you want.
<jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064590475.20931.python-list at python.org...
> I am attempting to do something that has apparently never yet been done
> before- implement a Crystal Reports User Function Library in Python. I
> suppose I should preface this by saying "I just barely understand what I
am
> doing".
>
> CR has a standard for creating plug-ins that implement functions too
> complicated to be done in CR's own internal grammar. When CR starts up, it
> looks for COM automation servers starting with CRUFL and makes their
methods
> available as additional formulas inside CR.
>
> I have implemented a COM automation object that is registered and can be
> called with Dispatch. It does, in fact, accept an input string and return
> properly-formatted output.
>
> HOWEVER- My object does not appear the the 'COM Browser' of Activestate's
> Pythonwin, and fails to be included in CR. This leads me to believe my
> little endeavour has gone off the rails somehow.
>
> My class definition(sans methods) looks something like this:
>
> class code128tools:
>     _public_methods_    = [ 'code128B' ]
>     _reg_progid_        = "CRUFLfoo.code128"
>     _reg_desc_           = "Crystal Reports UFL Code128 toolkit"
>     _reg_clsid_          = "{733D454C-43C1-436F-A0E2-E12AE05E4F07}"
>
> I think I have failed to define the 'type library'. I welcome any
assistance
> gratefully.
>





From scribe at linuxht.com  Mon Sep  8 21:25:53 2003
From: scribe at linuxht.com (Scribe)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 01:25:53 GMT
Subject: wxPython.grid
Message-ID: <B_97b.90006$bo1.71105@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hi
The megagrid expaple in the docs is great but, I can make it all work 
with the grid appearing in its own window but how do I make it show on 
my frame.
Thanks in advance.




From martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de  Tue Sep  9 09:54:41 2003
From: martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de (Martin Schneider)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:54:41 +0200
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
References: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de><bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063106894.20701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjkkjp$jvkvt$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi, Gerhard,

thanks for your answer :-)

Here's my python code:

for i in range(len(fileList)-1):
 for j in range(len(fileList)-i-1):
  if fileList[j+1] < fileList[j]:
   tmp = fileList[j]
   fileList[j] = fileList[j+1]
   fileList[j+1] = tmp

Of course I don't know what Python does here internally.

> It's best to have an array of pointers to structs. Then in
> your bubble-sort algorithm, only exchange the pointers, don't copy the
> structs themselves.

Okay - I'll try that :-)

> So if you make your C code as
> smart as Python automatically is <wink>, your C code should be a hell of
> a lot faster than your Python code :-)

Maybe :-) I'll let you know.

Thanks!

Martin





From bogus at invalid.tld  Thu Sep 25 23:50:41 2003
From: bogus at invalid.tld (Jules Dubois)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:50:41 -0600
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net>

On 25 Sep 2003 16:50:49 -0700, in article
<b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f at posting.google.com>, Stephen Ferg wrote:

> When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
> character?

Even MS-DOS 3.3 would accept '/'; the command-line utilities were
programmed to use only '\' without some start-up parameter (PATHSEP?).
Microsoft removed that feature in v4.0 or 5.0.  The "kernel" didn't care.

The Windows kernels are the same.  The internals of the operating system
accept either.



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 11:22:37 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:22:37 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it>

David Abrahams wrote:
   ...
> Well, (understanding that you don't nececessarily agree with the
> above) you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual C++
> iterator protocol, 

You mean there's an std::pair::begin etc?!  OK, I guess I'm even
rustier on standard C++ than I thought I was -- I could have SWORN
there wasn't.  (Std chapter & verse pls?  I plan to win bets based
on this tidbit...!-).  So I guess the lack of those in gcc is a
breach of the Standard on gcc's part...?

> and with a new mixed compile-time/runtime tuple
> iterator protocol developed by Doug Gregor, iteration over
> heterogeneous tuples is possible too.  It certainly is desirable to be
> able to do that; it's a real need that has come up in practice.

So, given an arbitrary struct, with fields (generally) of different types,
you can iterate field by field?  That's basically what the "heterogeneous
tuple" is supposed to be equivalent to, in the "party line" I was relating
(although the names to go with the fields are only present in a FEW such
tuples, such as those returned by modules time and stat, as of now; more
general tuples still haven't grown the ability to access fields by name,
in Python).

My partial dissent comes from feeling the need for "frozen/immutable
lists" and the fact that tuples are often used as such (including goofy
immutable representations of dicts, e.g. via tuple(thedict.iteritems()),
and the like).  If tuples cannot be thought of as immutable lists, then
(I think) we need "immutable/hashable/frozen" lists by other means.
(I need to say "I think" because, as I quoted, Ruby experts claim that
the "anyobject.freeze" feature they do have isn't actually as useful
as it SEEMS it should be -- though I'm not sure I understand why, yet).


Alex




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 17:32:21 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:32:21 +0100
Subject: unreferenced (???) variable; prob. simple
In-Reply-To: <JESUSBTQYIcVqeavxhg00000401@webmail.campusnet.dtu.dk>
References: <JESUSBTQYIcVqeavxhg00000401@webmail.campusnet.dtu.dk>
Message-ID: <200309152232.21692.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Monday 15 Sep 2003 8:31 pm, Halfdan Holger Knudsen wrote:
> goodday all - here's a snippet of code that just doesn't seem to work...at
> all! But I haven't got the faintest idea why I keep getting an unref.
> local var. error. Take a look - I know I can get good help here. And PS:
> Thanks beforehand.
>
> If you're wondering - it's an attempt at a (crude) reproduction of the
> string.split() functionality for learning purposes.
>
> ----------------------
>
> #! /usr/bin/env python
>
> import string
> begind = 0
> endind = 0
>
> def stripfunc():
>     inpstr = raw_input('String to strip: ')
>     length = len(inpstr)
>     spacelst = list(string.whitespace)
>     print spacelst
>     for a in range(length):
>         if inpstr[a] not in spacelst:
>             begind = a
>             break
>         break
>     for b in range(1, length+1):
>         if inpstr[-b] not in spacelst:
>             endind = length-b
>             break
>         break
>     stripstring = inpstr[begind:(endind+1)]
>     print stripstring
>     print begind
>     print endind
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     stripfunc()

Halfdan,

I reckon it's due to your 'excessive use' ;-) of 'break'.  Basically, neither 
of your for loops ever go more than one iteration, and if the first or last 
character of your string is not whitespace, your *local* variables begind and 
endind never get assigned anything (that's what Python said, right? ;-)).

Try this for size:

-----8<-----
>>> def strp(strg):
	from string import whitespace
	b=0
	while b<len(strg) and strg[b] in whitespace:
		b+=1
	e=len(strg)-1
	while e>b and strg[e] in whitespace:
		e-=1
	return strg[b:e+1]

>>> strp("\t\n this is a test \r\t")
'this is a test'
>>> 
-----8<-----


btw, string.split does this:

>>> "\t\n this is a test \r\t".split()
['this', 'is', 'a', 'test']

but I guessed you meant string.split() ;-))

!bing!  idea:

def strp2(strg):
	return strg.split().join(" ")

_However_ this will also remove duplicate spaces and any other whitespace in 
strg... maybe even useful!

hth
-andyj




From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 30 00:49:05 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 21:49:05 -0700
Subject: overriding  built-ins
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0309292049.eea47e6@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the responses, and my apologies for getting the terminology
confused.  What I really should have asked is this:

* Is there any way to create your own statements?
and,
* if so, can they override the names of built-in statements such as
'print'?

To which the answers seem to be, no, and definitely not (with a strong
hint of "why would you ever want to do that"?)



danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan) wrote in message news:<fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5 at posting.google.com>...
> I really have two related questions.
> 
> 1) Is it possible (without recompiling and changing the core Python
> behavior) to write functions that utilize the same syntax as built-in
> functions?  IE, can I create a function that does this:
> 
> >>>printCaps "hello"          #note no parentheses
> HELLO
> 
> 
> 2) Is it possible to do this with the built-in keywords themselves, ie
> override functions such as print?
> 
> thanks in advance -



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep 30 20:04:14 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:04:14 +0200
Subject: Registering Python 2.1.3
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20030930122535.027a6b08@66.28.54.253>
References: <6.0.0.22.0.20030930122535.027a6b08@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <3F7A19FE.2040206@ghaering.de>

Bob Gailer wrote:
> I need to register Python 2.1.3 so I can, in turn, install 
> sqlite-python-0.3.1.win32-py2.1.exe, so I can in turn use pysqlite with 
> ZOPE. [...]

The simplest way to achieve your goal is to download the .exe PySQLite 
installer, then unzip (yes, *unzip*) it with a tool like WinZip, 
PowerArchiver, unzip.exe or whatever and move the files into their 
places. The trick is that a Windows installer creatd with distutils is 
basically a zip file with a little bootstrap routine in front of it :)

-- Gerhard




From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 13:22:30 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 18:22:30 +0100
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
References: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com> <3f71361f$0$97182$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <bZecb.14514$KJ5.11624@fe2.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <874qz22jah.fsf@pobox.com>

amonroejj at yahoo.com (R. Alan Monroe) writes:

> In article <3f71361f$0$97182$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk>, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:
> 
> >> I intend to write both client and server in Python, and my main goal 
> >> in the first cut is speed. Suggestions?
> 
> >Why do you need thousand of rows at the client? Normally you would get 
> >the results in batches, so that you only transfer at most a few hundred 
> >at a time to the client.
> 
> Those types of tests will be done in my second cut.

At this stage you should be worrying more about this than about the
details of the protocol and implementation thereof.


> >Why not let the client ask directly if it is faster?
> 
> I thought that defeats the purpose of having 3 tiers. You'd have to 
> update the client if/every time business rules changed. Unless I'm 
[...]

Why?  The client asks the client in terms of "business logic", the
server asks the database in SQL.  If server and DB can communicate
quickly, no problem.


John



From domma at procoders.net  Thu Sep 25 08:40:16 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:40:16 +0200
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com> <0ZAcb.118994$hE5.4097227@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bkunn8$pgs$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:0ZAcb.118994$hE5.4097227 at news1.tin.it...
> You have to *EN*-code Unicode into string, with the same way the string
> had been *DE*-coded to Unicode originally, in order to be sure to get
> the same string back; specifically, you have to use the same *codec*
[...]

Thanks Alex,

I understand that, but looking at the adodbapi code I could not find any
call to encode/decode. The conversion seems to happen somewhere in win32com.
Don't know if you will ever get your data back, once it's converted to
Variant. ;-)

Achim





From claird at lairds.com  Mon Sep  1 12:29:42 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:29:42 -0000
Subject: learning to program
References: <mailman.1062052883.23262.python-list@python.org> <3f4e6a44.1219503072@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <vl6qm09a7drv2f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vl6svmmrt9c56@corp.supernews.com>

In article <vl6qm09a7drv2f at corp.supernews.com>, I misled readers with:
>			.
>			.
>			.
>But not *much* invalid.  While I don't recommend it to 
>the original poster, as he's a beginner, it might amuse
>those with a little Python background to play with
>  import Tkinter
>  Tcl_script = "some Tcl script here"
>  Tkinter.tk.eval(Tcl_script)
			.
			.
			.
Incorrect.  I had a little editing problem in posting that;
I apologize to all the readers the missing "Tk()" has puzzled.
Here's a more useful example:
  import Tkinter
  Tcl_script = 'puts "This is an example."'
  Tkinter.Tk().tk.eval(Tcl_script)
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Sep 17 13:47:59 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:47:59 -0300
Subject: [newbie] Manipulating Dates
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F8C@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- newDate = oldDate + 3 months

You can't (AFIK)


#- What would that be in Python code?

The problem is, what that be in Human code? Example: July 31 + 3 months:
?November 31?


.	Facundo





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From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep 22 10:07:45 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:07:45 GMT
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com> <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com> <7h3he359eda.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <zQCbb.100778$hE5.3550142@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <7h3zngw9azx.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
>    ...
> > Fair enough.  I can see your point of view, I just don't (completely)
> > agree with it :-) You could have something with similar syntax,
> > keywords, etc to Python but semantics like C, and it would still be
> > horrible (IMHO).
> 
> Tried pyrex?  It comes reasonably close to the "something" you
> describe, and it ain't all that horrible (IMHO).

I'm not sure pyrex is all that close to what I meant.  I meant
something like this:

include "stdio.h"

def main(int argc, char** argv):
    char* s = "world"
    if argc == 2:
        s = argv[1]
    printf("Hello %s", s)

OK, so maybe it's a little nicer than regular punctuation-soup C but I
really do think it's the object model of Python plus having high-level
types *right there* in the language that makes Python so useful (as
opposed to the syntax which just makes it *pleasant*).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I hate leaving Windows95 boxes publically accessible, so shifting
  even to NT is a blessing in some ways.  At least I can reboot them
  remotely in a sane manner, rather than having to send them malformed
  packets.      -- http://bofhcam.org/journal/journal.html, 20/06/2000



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Fri Sep 26 17:47:59 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:47:59 -0700
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
Message-ID: <1064612879.3f74b40f24dcd@mcherm.com>

John Roth writes:
> And you can parenthesize a surprisingly large number of places. One
> that I learned just recently was that the entire operand string of the
> print statement can be put into parenthesis.

Basically, you can parenthesize anywhere that an expression is expected.
The only place that you can't which still bugs me frequently is this:


from myModule import function_one, function_two, function_three \
    function_four, function_five, Class_six, Class_seven

which I use when typing "myModule." in front of the items would be
burdensome. Of course, "from myModule import *" is concise, but evil
and should be avoided.

-- Michael Chermside





From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Sep 18 12:27:03 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:27:03 -0300
Subject: file object: seek and close?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FA4@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- f = open('somefile', 'r')
#- for lines in f:
#-     some operations
#- f.seek(0)

I think will be very useful if you detail what those "some operations" are.

.	Facundo




From cnetzer at sonic.net  Mon Sep  8 13:52:46 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:52:46 -0700
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
In-Reply-To: <fbf8d8f2.0309080911.1cf73016@posting.google.com>
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
	 <bjh94c$j9p$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
	 <fbf8d8f2.0309080911.1cf73016@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1063043565.1871.4.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 10:11, dan wrote:

> My explanation of the behavior is correct however.  list[a] always
> equals list[a % len(list)].

Many people pointed out to you that this is NOT true.  In particular,
your version gives you NO bounds checking at all; every 'a' is a valid
index (for len(list) > 0).  The Python behavior DOES give IndexError for
an out of bound a, and that difference is very significant, IMO.

-- 
Chad Netzer





From ads at chead.org  Wed Sep 17 00:38:38 2003
From: ads at chead.org (ads)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:38:38 +0700
Subject: GTK help
Message-ID: <1386838535.20030917113838@chead.org>

Hi All,


I need some help, whe trying to run some gtk examples, show below
messages:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Downloads\python\test\pygtk\examples\pygtk-demo\demos\stock_browser.py", line 216, in -toplevel-
    main()
  File "D:\Downloads\python\test\pygtk\examples\pygtk-demo\demos\stock_browser.py", line 160, in main
    model = create_model()
  File "D:\Downloads\python\test\pygtk\examples\pygtk-demo\demos\stock_browser.py", line 33, in create_model
    store = gtk.ListStore(StockItemInfo)
TypeError: could not get typecode from object
>>> 

It show up when I run pygtk\examples\pygtk-demo\demos\stock_browser.py

Could someone help me, what is wrong with my system?

Thank you very much,

*sorry my language is Indonesia, so I haven't good English





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep 10 15:56:46 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:56:46 -0600
Subject: Opposite of yield?
In-Reply-To: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030910135508.03b69d28@66.28.54.253>

At 01:40 PM 9/10/2003, achrist at easystreet.com wrote:


>The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of
>lightweight concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there
>any similarly nice way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around
>(perhaps in the middle of a loop) and wait until some other routine
>(unknown to the waiting module) hurls a value in?

Sounds like a task for a thread that sleeps a while then checks for the data.

Also reminiscent (a long time ago) someone proposed a COME FROM statement 
for FORTRAN to be the inverse of GO TO.

Perhaps a new Python statement "suck"?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Sep 11 15:45:50 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:45:50 -0400
Subject: ftplib question: how to upload files?
In-Reply-To: <40669.199.169.240.132.1063305332.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>; from python@sarcastic-horse.com on Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 02:35:32PM -0400
References: <40669.199.169.240.132.1063305332.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <20030911154550.C32566@cerberus.liberty>

* python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com) wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> I want to write a procedure to automatically upload some files for me, but
> I'm getting stuck.  Before I write my own gruesome put() function, I
> wanted to check if there is an easier way.
> 
> Here's what I can do so far:
> >>>import ftplib
> >>>conn = ftplib.FTP('ftp.example.com')
> >>>conn.login(user='userid', passwd='passwd')
> >>>conn.cwd('/var/www/html/incoming')
> 
> What do I do to send files?
> 
> I have three files I want to upload, but I'm not sure what to do.  I hoped
> to find a ftplib.put() method, but it looks like ftplib is a low-level
> interface.


It is definitely a lower level interface.  You need to do something like:

conn.storbinary('STOR %s' % (file_name),file_object)
to put in binary mode or:

conn.storbinary('STOR %s' % (file_name),file_object)
to put in ascii mode.


HTH.

Jeremy Jones

> 
> All help is welcome.
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From mpeuser at web.de  Sun Sep 21 03:29:00 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:29:00 +0200
Subject: What is the meaning of the astarisk in Python
References: <3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bkjjth$lat$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> Hi
> Below is a line taken from Andy Dustman's MySQLdb module:
> def Connect(*args, **kwargs):
>
> I would be grateful if somebody explain the meaning of the astarisks,
since
> I was under the impression that pointers are not used in Python and the
> above look very must like pointers to me

In addition to the other answers:
It also works the other way: You can use tuples ore dicts for positional or
keyword parameters. This generally comes handy for co-ordinates in graphic
routines.

def p(a,b,c,d, x=None,y=None):
    print a,b,c,d,x,y

abcd=(1,2,3,4)
xy={'x':100, 'y':200}

p(*abcd)
p(0,0,0,0,**xy)


Kindly
MichaelP





From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Tue Sep 30 17:32:02 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 14:32:02 -0700
Subject: can i implement virtual functions in python ?
References: <e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0309301332.3483a61@posting.google.com>

prabua at hotmail.com (Prabu) wrote in message news:<e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to python, so excuse me if i'm asking something dumb. 
> Does python provide a mechanism to implement virtual functions?
> Can you please give a code snippet also...:)
> Thanx in advance
> -Prabu.

As others have mentioned, all methods are overridable in python.  But
if you want to create a genuine Abstract Base Class, raise
NotImplementedErrors for the virual methods.  People will tell you
that this is not 'pythonic' (you should be using hasattr() to test for
interfaces) but I still find it useful from time to time.

PythonWin 2.3.2c1 (#48, Sep 30 2003, 09:28:31) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au)
- see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> class virtualClass:
...     def __init__(self):
...         pass
...     def virtualMethod1(self):
...         raise NotImplementedError("virtualMethod1 is virutal and
must be overridden.")
...     def concreteMethod1(self):
...         print "The concrete method is implemented"
... 
		
>>> x = virtualClass()

>>> x.concreteMethod1()
The concrete method is implemented

>>> x.virtualMethod1()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 5, in virtualMethod1
NotImplementedError: virtualMethod1 is virutal and must be overridden.

>>> class subClass(virtualClass):
...     def virtualMethod1(self):
...         print "sub class implemented virtualMethod1"
... 
		
>>> y = subClass()

>>> y.concreteMethod1()
The concrete method is implemented

>>> y.virtualMethod1()
sub class implemented virtualMethod1

>>>



From max at fr.fm  Wed Sep 17 06:01:46 2003
From: max at fr.fm (Maxime Biais)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:01:46 +0200
Subject: Graphic python debugger
Message-ID: <20030917120146.3c5202e2.max@fr.fm>

Hello,

I'm looking for a graphic debugger for python on linux like DDD or GVD.
I tried pdb and pdb-mode for emacs, but I would use a more gvd-like
debugger.

-- 
Maxime Biais



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 15:28:38 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:28:38 -0500
Subject: __init__ return value
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20030924124805.0346ed20@66.28.54.253>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FFE@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
        <16241.58373.833630.615370@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <6.0.0.22.0.20030924124805.0346ed20@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <16241.61542.584624.536623@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> No, __init__ method return values are always ignored.

    Bob> Oh?

    >>>> class A:
    Bob> ...     def __init__(self):
    Bob> ...             return 'asdf'
    Bob> ...
    >>>> A()
    Bob> Traceback (most recent call last):
    Bob>    File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
    Bob> TypeError: __init__() should return None

My apologies.  It is checked and an exception raised if it's not None.
That's an implementation detail, not a property of the language.

Skip





From vincent_delft at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  1 12:01:22 2003
From: vincent_delft at yahoo.com (vincent delft)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 09:01:22 -0700
Subject: HELP : class and variables
Message-ID: <5c184570.0309010801.2353a3cc@posting.google.com>

Sorry if my question is stupid.
I've missed something with classes. 
Can you explain the following ?
class test:
  var1=1
  var2=2
  res=var1+var2

t=test()
print t.res
>> 3
t.var1=6
print t.res
>> 3

??????????????????
I though that everithing is memory zones.
Why it's not 8 ?

Thanks



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep  8 14:59:22 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:59:22 -0400
Subject: What is marketing?
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
 <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062983352.15417.python-list@python.org>
 <qnY6b.42704$R32.1360114@news2.tin.it> <eIMX/kKkXswV092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1063044013.17856.python-list@python.org>
 <Uc47b.46580$R32.1483053@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <KGNX/kKkX4cC092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|> The neutral word that Alex is looking for is 'promotion', which has a
|> subtle but important difference from the dirty word.

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote previously:
|Nope -- it's "marketing" as defined in textbooks of economics

Ahh... that begs the question[*].  I do not believe that Economics is
the relevant field to consult as to the purpose of the python.org
website.  Economists give only economic answers to questions, and that's
not the particular song-and-dance that interests me (FWIW, I've
published in an Economics journal, and taken graduate economics
courses--albeit suspiciously lefty ones--so my eschewal comes from
something other than simple ignorance).

If we decide our textbook should be one about Sociology, or Psychology,
or Anthropology, or Communications, the false generality for the term
'marketing' evaporates.  IOW, I'm more interested in what Thorstein
Veblen would say than in what Ludwig von Mises would say :-).  Or for
that matter, I'd rather consult Erving Goffman.

Yours, Lulu...

[*] Has anyone else noticed how horribly misused this phrase has
become... including in a televised ad series by Adobe for Acrobat.

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Sep 23 21:04:33 2003
From: mensanator at aol.com (mensanator)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 18:04:33 -0700
Subject: why the inconsistency?
Message-ID: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com>

I just installed Python 2.3 (upgrading from 2.1).

Version 2.3 is noticably faster and the automatic 
conversion to long integers is very handy:

>>> print 2**64
18446744073709551616


But if I want to know how many digits 2**64 has, I can't
just do

>>> print len(2**64)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: len() of unsized object

So instead, I did this

>>> print len(`2**64`)
21

But the correct answer is 20, not 21. The reason the
answer is wrong

>>> print `2**64`
18446744073709551616L

Why is the "L" there? I thought "L" isn't used anymore?



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Sep 23 12:47:37 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:47:37 -0300
Subject: idle import problem
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FEB@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Traceback (most recent call last):
#-   File "<pyshell#15>", line 1, in -toplevel-
#-     import countylist
#- ImportError: No module named countylist
#- >>>

Where do you have located this file? This directory is in your path?

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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Muchas Gracias.
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From mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 23 09:22:05 2003
From: mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:22:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: a little OT: how to handle this email list?
Message-ID: <51397.199.169.240.132.1064323325.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-

I subscribe to the python mailing list with an IMAP mailbox.  I use
squirrelmail to check my mail.  This is a great list, but it is definitely
high volume.  My python folder fills up with several hundred emails every
day.  How do the rest of you handle all the traffic on this list?  Do you
delete everything at the end of every day?

All insights are welcomed.






From carl at hotmail.lala.com  Mon Sep 29 22:27:15 2003
From: carl at hotmail.lala.com (Carlo v. Dango)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:27:15 +0200
Subject: meta classes
Message-ID: <oprwajrpt3g9zfwx@news.tiscali.dk>

hello there

I'd like to take control over the method dispatching of every subclass of a 
given python class. Currently I've redefined __getattribute__() so i can 
find the right instance/method to dispatch to. This works fine, albeit it 
may seem a bit hackish. Further I want to control the actual dispatching, 
so that I can execute methods before, after or instead of the actual 
method. I would prefer to do this with the least modification of the source 
due to debug'ing issues. My best idea so far is to rename every method who 
subclass the magic class X and then create new methods in place of the 
renamed ones, which looks up in a list to execute "before-methods", then 
execute the renamed method etc..

Only I don't know how to do this. I've found some MOP code which was 
designed for python old-style objects... but this is not what I want. Can 
anyone kindly give me some pointers for help or some actual code?

many thanks in advance..


---




From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Sep  2 16:30:26 2003
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:30:26 GMT
Subject: MySQLdb -- any way to get "rows matched"?
References: <fg54lvg2uhicjvl0i9a1vq5h925frjr4gq@4ax.com> <mailman.1062518530.3141.python-list@python.org> <bj202l.1nc.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1062529509.26494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj260h.1bk.1@kserver.org>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:04:20 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1062529509.26494.python-list at python.org>:

>     mysql> UPDATE example SET AGE=30 WHERE AGE=30;
>     Sheila> Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec)
>     Sheila> ws matched: 2  Changed: 0  Warnings: 0
> 
>     Sheila> MySQLdb in Python:
> 
>     >>>> c = conn.cursor()
>     >>>> c.execute("""UPDATE example SET AGE=30 WHERE AGE=30;""")
>     Sheila> 0L
>     >>>> c.messages
>     Sheila> []
>     >>>> c.info()
>     Sheila> ''
> 
>     Sheila> Being a MySQL and MySQLdb newbie, I'm not sure if there is any
>     Sheila> way to find out how many matched, via Python's MySQLdb module. I
>     Sheila> thought, from the source code, that .messages or .info() for the
>     Sheila> cursor attributes/methods might do it, but apparently not???
> 
> I'm not sure what the return value means when executing an update.  My guess
> is that it returns the number of rows changed.  If you want to know the
> number of rows matched, execute a SELECT which matches your WHERE clause:
> 
>     >>> db = MySQLdb.Connection(...)
>     >>> c = db.cursor()
>     >>> c.execute("select * from cities where city='San Jose'")
>     4L
>     >>> c.execute("update cities set city='San Jose' where city='San Jose'")
>     0L
> 
> Skip

Right. That is what I was saying, except that the OP wants to get the
number of matches from an UPDATE statement, even if they entries are not
updated.

IOW, he doesn't want to have to do both SELECT and UPDATE but is hoping to
get the information from only an UPDATE statement.

I was correcting what I believe was incorrect information in an earlier
post. i.e. you wrote:

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:00:58 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1062518530.3141.python-list at python.org>:

>     Chris> When issuing updates in mysql (in the console window), mysql will
>     Chris> tell you if any rows matched and how many rows were updated (see
>     Chris> below).  I know how to get number of rows udpated using MySQLdb,
>     Chris> but is there any way to get the number of rows matched?  
> 
> I believe the return value of the cursor's execute() method gives you the
> number of rows which matched.
> 
> Skip

which is not correct.

Roberto Gomez from Argentina contacted me in private email in response to
my last post (apparently having trouble posting to the mailing list today
for some reason) and pointed out that the MySQLdb exceeds the required
DB-API for Python, as the result of "execute" for a cursor is undefined
according to the DB-API. True enough. His point was, that if there is a
concern that the program be compatible with possible other databases in the
future, besides MySQLdb, that this feature of the MySQLdb cursor.execute
method should not be assumed.

In summary the "gee I'm a newbie" remark was meant to indicate that I do
not know the answer to the OP's question, not that I didn't know how to get
the result from a SELECT statement. Sorry for being unclear. 


-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From panbru at comcast.net  Fri Sep 12 12:14:56 2003
From: panbru at comcast.net (T. Panbru)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:14:56 -0600
Subject: Canvas - Rectangle. Is there an easy way to detect if you're
 inside?
In-Reply-To: <4378fa6f.0309120811.394c494b@posting.google.com>
References: <4378fa6f.0309111159.7a9bb539@posting.google.com> <ekCdneV55u9Ij_yiXTWJhA@comcast.com> <0KScnYKghrLc1fyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <bjrtmh$bts$03$1@news.t-online.com> <4378fa6f.0309120811.394c494b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <kuCdnapfh9SDbPyiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>

Type "point in polygon algorithm" into Google and follow the links.

Tim

Marc wrote:
> Yeah, I've had to use the 'tags' parameter fairly heavily to bind
> different groups of canvas objects to different mouse actions. So I'm
> all over that.
> 
> But I think the key thing you said was "has to be filled." Basically
> I'm using the rectangle as a border within which other things are
> placed. The border itself is simply an overlay where I need the
> background to show through. Therefore I can't fill it with anything.
> 
> So if it has to be filled, apparently there is no easier way than the
> way I'm doing now.




From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Wed Sep 10 01:16:49 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:16:49 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
In-Reply-To: <16222.9390.817242.32280@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>        <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org>        <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>        <3F5E0171.B68BDE2F@engcorp.com>        <_WydnXPHCO6oksOiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <16222.9390.817242.32280@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F5EB3C1.6020107@teksavvy.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>    amk> I envision people wanting information on a specific version first,
>    amk> only later going to the more generic items under "documentation".
>    amk> Do other people think this would be a good idea?
>
>I think docs are more important than specific versions.  Sure, the first
>time they come to the site they'll be looking for "Python 2.3".  But most
>times after that they'll want documentation.  The most frequent page I visit
>on the site is
>
>    http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/modindex.html
>
>That far outpaces any other page on the site, even the home page, so I
>bookmarked so it's one click away.
>  
>

Interesting point. It might prove useful to those redesigning the
site, or discussing its redesign, to examine either

-- python.org's Web logs, if available, or

-- a Google of "python site:python.org"

to determine frequencies of visits to various parts of the site. (I am
assuming, based on minimal knowledge of Google's ranking algorithms,
that the most "relevant" pages will be close to the top of the Google
list.)

Here's a fun exercise for someone with some time on their hands:

Mirror the larger part of the Python site. Then apply extra formatting
to each page, and to links on each page, indicating how "hot" they
are, based on frequencies determined from the logs or Google. For
example, my Google search (above) would suggest that the home page and
the tutorial page are both "hot", so both these pages and any links to
these pages would appear in a warm colour; links to "Python Patch
Submission Guidelines" appears on Google's Page 10 (today, anyway), so
it would get a cool-colour treatment.

At a glance, this should show which parts of the site, and which
 links, are "used" and which are "not used" (relatively, by the past
 and present audiences of the site, of course).

If you are colour-blind (I mean, chromato-visually impaired), perhaps
you could use various font sizes instead of colours.

I leave the implementation as an exercise for the student. ;-)

Of course, the colour map describes past behaviour, and conclusions
drawn from examining such a "coloured" site might reinforce past usage
patterns, which may or may not be favourable, depending on your point
of view.

Best,

-- Graham

P.S. If someone implemented this, I would get my boss to buy a boxed set.
     And I'll trade the rights for a canoe.
     ;-)







From bokr at oz.net  Thu Sep 11 10:55:36 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 14:55:36 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <slrnbm0nci.d9.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
Message-ID: <bjq2d8$ttd$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:33:38 +0000 (UTC), Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl> wrote:
[...]
>To sum up what I've learnt here and from the FAQ: 'self' could actually be 
>any string (it is 'self' by convention), as its role is only to serve as 
>the first argument of methods in order to facilitate the process of
>associating method calls with their context. It would be possible (even if
>not obviously desirable) to implement method definitions in such a way
>as to avoid the first argument completely, i.e.
>
>	def something():
>		...
>
>so actually it's just a question of implementation. Having little
>experience with object-oriented programming, I won't try to relate to
>pro and contra arguments that have been given in the discussion, I just
>have one more question: isn't it a little superfulous to have to use the
>'classmethod()' builtin to declare class methods? I'd think giving a
>class object name as the first argument should suffice?
>
I think you may have misunderstood classmethod. Rebinding a class attribute
with the result of classmethod makes a method that
works differently from an ordinary method. It means that the class itself will
be bound to the first argument, even if the method is called as an attribute
of an instance of the class. E.g.,

 >>> class A(object):
 ...     def cm(*args): return args
 ...     cm = classmethod(cm)
 ...     def m(*args): return args
 ...
 >>> class B(A): pass
 ...
 >>> a= A()
 >>> b= B()
 >>> a.cm()
 (<class '__main__.A'>,)
 >>> a.m()
 (<__main__.A object at 0x00902350>,)
 >>> b.cm()
 (<class '__main__.B'>,)
 >>> b.m()
 (<__main__.B object at 0x008F9690>,)

and note:

 >>> A.cm()
 (<class '__main__.A'>,)
 >>> B.cm()
 (<class '__main__.B'>,)

but:
 >>> A.m()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: unbound method m() must be called with A instance as first argument (got nothing instead)
 >>> B.m()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: unbound method m() must be called with B instance as first argument (got nothing instead)

also, you don't have to do it inside the class definition, and it's not about a specific
attribute name -- i.e. you don't have to write xxx = classmethod(xxx) as is conventional,
unless the following is fooling me.

 >>> def bar(*args): return 'bar %r'%args
 ...
 >>> class C(B): pass
 ...
 >>> C.cmbar = classmethod(bar)
 >>> c=C()
 >>> c.cmbar()
 "bar <class '__main__.C'>"
 >>> C.cmbar()
 "bar <class '__main__.C'>"
 >>> c.cm()
 (<class '__main__.C'>,)
 >>> c.m()
 (<__main__.C object at 0x00902170>,)

Of course the result is not *identical*, since you can see the original function name
(note that you get a *bound* method either way with a classmethod, vs the ordinary C.m/c.m)

 >>> C.cmbar
 <bound method type.bar of <class '__main__.C'>>
 >>> c.cmbar
 <bound method type.bar of <class '__main__.C'>>
 >>> C.cm
 <bound method type.cm of <class '__main__.C'>>
 >>> c.cm
 <bound method type.cm of <class '__main__.C'>>
 >>> C.m
 <unbound method C.m>
 >>> c.m
 <bound method C.m of <__main__.C object at 0x00902170>>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From M.Waack at gmx.de  Thu Sep 25 11:00:37 2003
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:00:37 +0200
Subject: squeeze and package imports
Message-ID: <lhcb41-6t3.ln1@valpo.de>

Hi, 

I've got a problem with Fredrik's squeeze tool. I've got a script
which accesses a Oracle DB with the help of DCOracle. This script
works very well, but after squeezing it the "import DCOracle" fails.
The DCOracle package consists of several python files and some
shared libs. The import of one shared lib from within the package
fails. It looks like a problem with the code responsible for
searching the appropriate module file. 

Let me try to illustrate the situation. DCOracle ist installed under
/tmp for example:

/tmp
  +--- DCOracle
           +----- odb.py
           +----- Buffer.sl
           +----- __init__.py
           ...

__init__.py imports odb.py which imports Buffer.sl, that means in
odb.py you can find statements like
        from Buffer import Buffer

If I import it from my script:

        sys.path.append("/tmp")
        import DCOracle

it works without squeezing and fails with squeezing. In the latter
case, the Buffer import statement named above fails. The traceback
shows, which import in which file is executed, but instead of the
directory names of each file it prints only question marks "?". Thus
I thought, if the import code doesn't know about the current
directory, it can't import the Buffer module, because it can't look
into the "same" directory. And so my second try:

        sys.path.append("/tmp")
        sys.path.append("/tmp/DCOracle")
        import DCOracle

And everything works fine. But I'm still curious - there seems to be
something wrong with the import hooks in the squeeze module. BTW,
I'm using python 2.2.2. 

Any ideas?

Mathias



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 15 16:32:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:32:03 -0400
Subject: irritating problem
References: <20030915150042.22749.00001062@mb-m23.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3F6621C3.56525D6B@engcorp.com>

Park997 wrote:
> 
> I have a script that runs correctly in IDLE, runs correctly when invoked in the
> Command Prompt (Win XP), runs correctly from Komodo, but flashes a black box
> too fast to see when the icon is double clicked and produces no output. There
> are no error meassages from any of the methods that produce output. All of the
> other modules in the same directory (these are imported to the problem module)
> work correctly in any start mode.

Can you select Properties for that icon and change it so it doesn't close
the window automatically when the program terminates?

Or is this just using the default settings after you've installed Python,
in which case it's being run using the assocation for the .py file extension?
In that case, you should go to Explorer, under View->Folder Options.  Then
click the File Types tab, scroll down until you find the entry for the Python
files (make sure you use .py or .pyw as appropriate), then click on Edit,
then on Run in the Actions area, then on Edit.  You should then see, in about 
the 19th dialog that has popped up (isn't Windows wonderful?! Truly those at 
Microsoft are masters of good user interface design!), the actual command
that is being executed when you click on the icon.  I suspect it uses the
directory that the .py file is in as the current directory, and it should
show an absolute path to where it thinks Python should be, then something
like "%1" %* which roughly means execute the file using the exact command
plus the filename in quotation marks.  I suspect the %* does nothing in most
cases.

If you can then go to the DOS prompt in the same directory, and type the
same command, and everything works.... well then you've got a problem on
your hands, don't you?  ;-)  (But let us know more, then, as there are 
doubtless other steps to take.)

-Peter



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep  2 17:46:50 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 02 Sep 2003 22:46:50 +0100
Subject: Bayesian kids content filtering in Python?
References: <20030828161409.V40715@onyx.ispol.com> <AVA3b.9197$Pn6.1974@twister.austin.rr.com> <7e7439f1.0309020641.28ace8fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <877k4qyib9.fsf@pobox.com>

ed at digitallumber.net (Ed Stoner) writes:

> I've been looking at this sort of thing for a while now.  I initially
> tried what you did about a year and a half ago and ran into some
> problems.  I ended up writing my own http proxy, html parser, and
> bayes filtering code.  It is being used now by Woodland Hills School
> District in Pittsburgh, PA.  The school has 2300 computers, 6000
> students, and 3 T1 lines to the Internet.  Most of the problems I ran
[...]

Interesting.  How closely has the success of Willow at the school been
monitored?  Has somebody taken a statistical sample of unlucky kids
and watched their surfing closely, for instance?  How does it fail, if
so?  I think the ways that it fails are probably more interesting than
the frequency of failure at a particular site.  I suppose one problem
is that the frequency of abuse is likely to be low once you start
cracking down!

What have been your experiences with attempting to subvert your own
system?

Of course, the fundamental problem with testing these things is that a
successful block doesn't tell you anything about all the cases where
blocking would fail...


John



From maney at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 01:00:10 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:00:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <bk2okk$nrhg9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <38ec68a6.0309142310.30c09f9f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkbe4q$8il$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Asun Friere <afriere at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> In terms of pandering to newbies, I think the requirement that loop
> conditions be expressions is much more squarely aimed at experienced
> programmers, who would otherwise be tempted to write unintelligible
> code by placing too much of the programs logic withing the loop
> condition.

Uhm, no.  *Experienced* programmers know better than to take usch
things to excess, unless the code is being written for a obfuscated
code contest.  As is so often the case, it's those difficult
in-betweeners, no longer innocent by virtue of ignorance, not yet
grown wise enough to eschew the merely clever, who bollix it all up for
the rest of us.

-- 
Threaten not the comic with your lawyers' bluster,
all toothless to supress parody and satire;
for you will not amuse him, but you may inspire him.
  (me, inspired by http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/01/Apr/mcrhf.html)



From anna at aleax.it  Tue Sep 23 11:22:24 2003
From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:22:24 GMT
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
References: <mailman.1063781063.16709.python-list@python.org> <tAV9b.181$qK1.218658@news2.news.adelphia.net> <8e6e8e5d.0309171647.65d5ea1f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.23.15.22.20.630726@aleax.it>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:47:22 -0700, Ron Stephens wrote:

>> > Three years of sustained effort.
>> >
>> > But we seemed to have taken away different lessons.
>> >
>> > My expereince led me to look upon the CP4E slogan quite askance.
>> > Yours, apparently, allowed you to embrace it.
> 
> Agreed, and I respect your point of view on this. Also, I noticed that
> some one on the marketing-python list a few weeks ago made a similar
> comment; that he was not too happy about people making too much of
> Python's alleged ease of learning, because it devalued the skills of
> those professional programmers who need to be fairly paid and make a
> living at programming with Python. This seems to me to be a reasonable
> position to take, but still, since Guido coined CP4E, I feel justified
> in exploring that aspect of Python's nature, and I do find I that the
> hypotesis that ease of learning and ease of use might ultimately win out
> in the programming field, this resonates with me.
> 
> But we certainly still need expert Python programmes, to do the real
> work, create the serious business systems, and also to create the tools
> that I and others like me use ;-)))
> 
> 
>> > It seems to me "everybody" who's imagination is ignited by something
>> > to
>>  the
>> > extent that it carries them through 3 years of sustained effort can
>> > expect to be doing "computer programming" somewhere along that line.
>> >
>> > Not very surprising, really.
> 
> Good point. And the same aforementioned marketing-python poster pointed
> out that  brain surgery is not for everybody, and that programming is
> also not for everybody. And I agree. But the CP4E slogan is using
> hyperbole to make a memorable point...that programming can be usefully
> extended to a far greater audience. And that learning as much as one is
> interested in about the brain, nervous system, and artificial
> intelligence does not create a danger that such people will take
> scalpels to their loved ones' heads. It's horses for courses, you know?
> 
>> > No slogans helped me along - that I do know.
>> >
>> > It was three years of sustained effort.
>> >
>> > For everybody?
>> >
>> > Are we *required* to embrace that notion?
> 
>  LOL. Of course we are not required to embrace any notion. Even if you
> advocate curly braces, your welcome in my discussions, but I wont agree
> with you ;-)))
> 
> 
>> > Yes everybody  - let's say - has that potential. But that was true
>> > before Python came along.
>> >
>> > For some - like myself - Python was a real factor in helping realize
>> > that potential. I am a raving fan, in fact.
>> >
>> > But I do not discount my 3 years of sustained effort as anything less
>> > than
>>  3
>> > years of sustained effort, and seem to  think that that was a bit of
>>  factor,
>> > as well.
> 
>  Hey, I did put in a lot of effort, sustained effort, as you say, and
> I do not de-value that. Perhaps one of my primary resaons for admiring
> Python so much is that it helped to sustain in me that 3 year effort,
> which is no mean feat.
> 
> 
>> > And would love to see the CP4E slogan go away now, peacefully and
>> > happily.
>> >
>> > Art
>  
> Well, I like the CP4E sloagan; but I'm not married to it. One of my
> first exposures to Python was a mention of CP4E in some good book about
> hackers, primarily Linus Torvalds, but I forget the title. The author in
> a later chapter  of that book mentioned Guido's CP4E slogan and it
> piqued my interest. But I don't mind some others being turned off to it.
> 
> Look, the main thing is this. My program is trivial, I could have done
> more than half of it by simply using an Excel spreadsheet way back 3
> years ago. But I wouldn't have , and the Python program, trivially
> simple as it is at its roots, raises interesting ideas for extension and
> expansion that could just possibly lead to quite interesting uses. It
> will still be trivial in most ways, it wont ever earn a buck, but it
> could be interesting and useful; and I don't think I would have been
> motivated to follow up on any of those ideas in a lesser language in
> which the barrier to such exploration was higher than I would want to
> pay. Python seems to encourage and reward incremental effort, and it
> leads one to explore extentions and improvements to programs because the
> language makes it relatively easy to see how to do the extensions.

<snip>

Greetings from one longish-term newbie to another.

Python is the reason I'm doing programming. I learned a bit of Pascal and
Basic mumbletymumble years ago (let's just say that I started learning on
punchcards and leave it at that shall we?). But, it was never something
that I felt enough comfort with to *use* in my day-to-day life. It was
always so much effort for the slightest return...

Python, otoh, *IS* comfortable and easy to use - which means I use it
more. I've been able to use it regularly in little ways both at work and
at home. As I feel more comfortable with it, I find more ways I can use
it. Which is kewl!

And, afaic, if *I* can use it, just about *everybody* could... well, okay
- you have actually have more imagination and intelligence than a turnip...

Anna

-- 
Bottom line: ignore your body, it's most likely doing you harm.

			Lyle McDonald, mfw



From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Sep  8 01:05:19 2003
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:05:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Baypiggies User Group Meeting, September 11, 2003
Message-ID: <bjh2mf$n95$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

BayPIGgies: Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group

When: September 11, 2003 @ 7:30pm
Where: Carnegie Institute of Washington
       at Stanford University; Palo Alto
Agenda: Wavlets for SciPy
Speaker: Chad Netzer

Abstract: This talk will demonstrate an implementation of a wavelets
package for SciPy, and present some applications with signal
processing and image classification.  There will be discussion of the
benefits of doing scientific computation with Python, unit testing
with statistical methods, and using SciPy with PythonCard as a
learning tool. (Knowledge of wavelets is not a requirement, and the
math will be kept to a minimum)


We hope to see you there!



From roy at panix.com  Tue Sep  2 20:17:55 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:17:55 -0400
Subject: python short conditional?
References: <pan.2003.09.03.00.16.45.270773@countersnipe.com>
Message-ID: <roy-9BB785.20175502092003@reader2.panix.com>

Pieter Claassen <pieter at countersnipe.com> wrote:

> I am looking to find a short conditional for python equivalent
> to the perl question mark operator 
> 
> statement? if true:else false

There is no such ternary operator in Python.  There was a HUGE debate 
earlier this year about possibly adding it.  To make a very long story 
short, it's not going to happen.  Look up PEP-308 for more details.



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 19:00:39 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 00:00:39 +0100
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <bjcstg$plc$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87iso5plns.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

> "John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:87vfs6unsx.fsf at pobox.com...
[...]
> > > I know this argument well and have repeated it myself in the days of Pascal
> > > and  Algol68. Few have listened.....
> 
> > Well, they'd be right not to listen if you argued it about Pascal.
> > There's a real difference in productivity between Pascal and Python.
> > Pascal doesn't even have built-in garbage collection, for heaven's
> > sake, which places it much closer to C than to Python in this respect.
> 
> I said "in the time of Pascal and Algol 68". If you kindly would consult a
> calender you will find out that had been 35 years ago. Pascal had been
[...]

Oh, sorry, I thought the comparison you were making was between C and
(Algol or Pascal).  I guess C hadn't quite happened then...


John



From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Tue Sep  9 04:01:56 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (Manuel Bastioni)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:01:56 GMT
Subject: Get the date of last modification of a file
References: <rE27b.45940$R32.1458201@news2.tin.it> <3F5CBAB8.F8888E3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <UNf7b.48792$R32.1584881@news2.tin.it>

> > It's possible using only a built-in module?
>
> os.path.getmtime()
...

 >>> import os, stat
 >>> s = os.stat("c:/tmp")

os isn't built-in :-(
Thx,

          Manuel






From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Sep 20 16:14:55 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:14:55 +0100
Subject: spam killing with poplib
References: <pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409@webone.com.au>
 <S02bb.43098$NM1.7449@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BPpREWA$ULb$Ewt$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <S02bb.43098$NM1.7449 at newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Phil
Weldon <pweldon at mindspring.com> writes
>At best that will identify less than a third of the messages produced by
>this worm.  A permutating and mutating bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' message
>carrying the infection package is more common than the HTML message.  Either
>type is over 100 KBytes, and will quickly clog a mailbox.
>
>Expect the HTML message body, FROM and SUBJECT  to mutate also.
>
>Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com
>
>"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message
>news:pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409 at webone.com.au...
>>
>> This was so easy :)
>>
>> Simon Burton.
.... you're right, I had to use patterns like

re.compile('^subject:\s*((Microsoft|MS|Upgrade|Net|Network|New|Newest|
Latest|Last|Critical|Patch|Pack|internet|security|current|update)\s*)+$'
,re.IGNORECASE)
        
and check the from value as well. Even so I'm not getting all of them
and as you say mutation is happening.                   
-- 
Robin Becker



From john at rygannon.com  Thu Sep 11 05:17:14 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:17:14 GMT
Subject: Problems with setting up mod_python and Apache
References: <3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <4zK7b.11532$NW3.6643@news1.central.cox.net> <jXO7b.14165$NW3.10353@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3f603db5$0$199$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi Dave
Thank you very much for your reply
I only have one copy of httpd.conf, since I am working on a development
machine and I only have the one directory. Once I have things working this
will obviously change.
Now that I have enabled debugging I am getting something meaningful. Below
is the output from the error handler

Mod_python error: "PythonHandler test"

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py" line 185, in
Dispatch
object = resolve_object(req, module, object_str, silent)

File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/mod_python/apache.py" line 394, in
resolve_object
raise AttributeError s

AttributeError: module 'srv/www/htdocs.test.py' contains no handler

It is obvious from the above that I need to read the mod_python docs again
and this time more thoroughly

Apologies for not sending my last reply to the list. I must have hit the
wrong button

-- 
Best Regards
John



From my at mail.ru  Wed Sep 17 04:39:48 2003
From: my at mail.ru (Kerim)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:39:48 +0400
Subject: Can Python Module Locate Itself?
References: <VYR9b.1109$c17.866@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1063781182.18892.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f681dd6@shknews01>

Try this:

print 'usage:', __file__

Kerim






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Sep 23 12:34:56 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 12:34:56 -0400
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix> <3F704A91.FA7D31F7@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695@riquito.matrix>
Message-ID: <bkpsng$knm$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695 at riquito.matrix>,
Riccardo Attilio Galli  <riquito at riquito.matrix> wrote:
>
>I think you have misunderstood me(mmm, I hope it sound polite enough in
>english). An user should never enter the password again. I know how hashes
>work, and they're useful when I can compare an entered password with an
>hash value, but here I need that the user don't enter a password anymore
>(after the first time).
>
>The natural use of the program would be:
>run the e-mail client for the first time
>user enter his e-mail password
>the client check for new mails
>user close the client.
>
>while 1:
>  user run the e-mail client
>  the client check for new mails WITHOUT ask for a password
>  user close the client

This is extremely difficult to do in a secure way.  What you need to do
is encrypt the e-mail password before storage; each time the user starts
the e-mail application, zie needs to enter the local password.  There are
other less secure options, all of which (with some partial exceptions)
equate to "no security" from the perspective of a security professional.
(E.g. relying on the OS to keep the data secure.)

Python does not make encryption available in its "batteries included"
philosophy because of the legal problems.  M2Crypto is probably the
module most often used; see also
http://www.amk.ca/python/code/crypto.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From merman at snafu.de  Mon Sep 29 10:59:18 2003
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:59:18 +0200
Subject: Question: Inheritance from a buil-in type
Message-ID: <3F7848C6.8070306@snafu.de>

Hi there,

A simple but important question:

How can I initialize a super class (like dict) correctly in my subclass constructor?

A sample:

class MyClass(dict):
     def __init__(self):
         dict.__init__(self)
         ...


Is there a general rule to do this for all buil-in types?

Thanks for help.

Thomas





From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 12:09:45 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:09:45 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <v4lmlvkav0fui6trcj39khbevvm9u1u8eh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c3755a$7a7fd410$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

John W Hall
> When I view _this_ site in IE6, it has low-contrast text in a small
> size, which "view|text size" cannot change.

Did I mention it was an image?

Tim






From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Sep 11 15:13:34 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:13:34 -0700
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
In-Reply-To: <Wx38b.8278$PE6.2683@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <000d01c37870$181e6020$0c02a8c0@Arts> <mailman.1063297012.18608.python-list@python.org> <Wx38b.8278$PE6.2683@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030911191334.GD2085@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Greg Krohn (ask at me.com):
> 
> "Geoff Gerrietts" <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1063297012.18608.python-list at python.org...
> > I think that /your freedom/ ends where /my freedom/ begins. Until
> > you can guarantee that your weapon will not be used against me by
> > your family members or the conqueror thereof, your freedoms to
> > shoot what you want as a hobbyist and to exercise catastrophically
> > lethal force in home defense are not compelling arguments.
> 
> What freedom of yours does me owning a gun infringe on? Your right
> not to worry?
> 
> (I've rewritten that 100 times and it still sounds funny
> gramatically. I appologise.)

It's funny when you phrase it that way, which I think is a consequence
of my poor choice of words. Your /owning/ a gun infringes no /rights/.
Its /use/ or /accidental discharge/ in my direction infringes my
rights, equal to yours, to life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness. You simply can't guarantee that your weapon will never
accidentally kill me, nor can you guarantee that it will not be stolen
or borrowed from you and deployed against me. 

Let's ignore for a moment that driving a car has utility beyond its
potential to be deployed as lethal force, and its entertainment value.
To be allowed to do this, you must be licensed. You must carry
insurance that protects others against your catastrophically bad
decisions. Few argue that this requirement is reasonable.

If you purchase a gun, your neighbors are in jeapordy of an accidental
mishandling, or a home invasion gone wrong, resulting in destruction
of their property or possibly their loved ones. You are undoubtedly
not insured against this: hope for their sake the expenses do not
exceed your ability to pay.

To my mind, gun control does not mean /nobody can have a gun/. Gun
control means /gun ownership should be controlled/. I understand that
a good many people do not want the society at large, as reflected by
the government, to be deciding whether they are fit to carry a .45 in
a shoulder rig. Those tend to be the people I don't want to see
carrying a .45 in a shoulder rig, because their ideas about 'freedom'
and 'responsibility' are clearly skewed.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "There is no fate that cannot be 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     surmounted by scorn." --Albert Camus




From ofnap at nus.edu.sg  Fri Sep 12 10:16:38 2003
From: ofnap at nus.edu.sg (Ajith Prasad)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 07:16:38 -0700
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org> <221d8dbe.0307160619.2c2943c3@posting.google.com> <221d8dbe.0308150959.b18167c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <37ee60c8.0309120616.794e2bf1@posting.google.com>

Would appreciate any advice on how to get started with the script.
Created an empty spreadsheet "test.xls" on drive F. Then at the
PythonWin prompt tried and obtained:
>>> xlapp=UseExcel("f:\test.xls")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "UseExcel.py", line 16, in __init__
  File "<COMObject <unknown>>", line 2, in Open
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, 'Microsoft Excel',
"'f:\test.xls' could not be found. Check the spelling of the file
name, and verify that the file location is correct.\n\nIf you are
trying to open the file from your list of most recently used files on
the File menu, make sure that the file has not been renamed, moved, or
deleted.", 'C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft
Office\\Office10\\1033\\xlmain10.chm', 0, -2146827284), None)

Thanks in advance.


srijit at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<221d8dbe.0308150959.b18167c at posting.google.com>...
> Hello Members,
> I would like to share the Python-Excel Interface code.
> This is based on sample code from Mark Hammond and Andy Robinson's
> "Python Programming on Win32"
> I use Python 2.3 and Win32all-157 on a Win 98 machine.
> I look forward to feedback on how to improve this code. If I get good
> response I may think of putting up this code as a Python recipe in
> Activestate.
> Once again hats off to Mark Hammond for his excellent Win32all
> library.
> 
> Regards,
> Srijit
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> import win32com.client.dynamic
> 
> class UseExcel(object):
>     """Python Excel Interface. It provides methods for accessing the
> basic functionality of MS Excel 97/2000 from Python.
> 
> This interface uses dynamic dispatch objects. All necessary constants
> are embedded in the code. There is no need to run makepy.py.
>     """
>     __slots__ = ("xlapp", "xlbook")
>     def __init__(self, fileName=None):
>         """e.g. xlFile =
> useExcel("e:\\python23\myfiles\\testExcel1.xls")
>         """
>         self.xlapp =
> win32com.client.dynamic.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
>         if fileName:                
>             self.xlbook = self.xlapp.Workbooks.Open(fileName)
>         else:
>             self.xlbook = self.xlapp.Workbooks.Add()
> 
>     def save(self, newfileName=None):
>         if newfilename:            
>             self.xlbook.SaveAs(newfileName)
>         else:
>             self.xlbook.Save()
> 
>     def close(self):
>         self.xlbook.Close(SaveChanges=False)
>         del self.xlapp
>    
>     def show(self):
>         self.xlapp.Visible = True
>         
>     def hide(self):
>         self.xlapp.Visible = False
>         
>     def getcell(self, sheet, cellAddress):
>         """Get value of one cell.
>         
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet       -   name of the excel worksheet
> cellAddress -   tuple of integers (row, cloumn) or string "ColumnRow"
>                 e.g. (3,4) or "D3"
>         """
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         if (isinstance(cellAddress,str)):            
>             return sht.Range(cellAddress).Value
>         elif (isinstance(cellAddress,tuple)):
>             row = cellAddress[0]
>             col = cellAddress[1]    
>             return sht.Cells(row, col).Value
>     
>     def setcell(self, sheet, value, cellAddress,
> fontStyle=("Regular",), fontName="Arial",
>                         fontSize=12, fontColor=1):
>         """Set value of one cell.
> 
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet       -   name of the excel worksheet
> value       -   The cell value. it can be a number, string etc.
> cellAddress -   tuple of integers (row, cloumn) or string "ColumnRow"
>                 e.g. (3,4) or "D3"
> fontStyle   -   tuple. Combination of Regular, Bold, Italic, Underline
>                 e.g. ("Regular", "Bold", "Italic")
> fontColor   -   ColorIndex. Refer ColorIndex property in Microsoft
> Excel Visual Basic Reference
>         """        
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         if (isinstance(cellAddress,str)):            
>             sht.Range(cellAddress).Value = value
>             sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.Size = fontSize
>             sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.ColorIndex = fontColor
>             for i, item in enumerate(fontStyle):
>                 if (item.lower() == "bold"):
>                     sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.Bold = True
>                 elif (item.lower() == "italic"):     
>                     sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.Italic = True
>                 elif (item.lower() == "underline"):    
>                     sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.Underline = True
>                 elif (item.lower() == "regular"):
>                     sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.FontStyle = "Regular"
>             sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.Name = fontName
>         elif (isinstance(cellAddress,tuple)):
>             row = cellAddress[0]
>             col = cellAddress[1]
>             sht.Cells(row, col).Value = value
>             sht.Cells(row, col).Font.FontSize = fontSize
>             sht.Cells(row, col).Font.ColorIndex = fontColor
>             for i, item in enumerate(fontStyle):
>                 if (item.lower() == "bold"):
>                     sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.Bold = True
>                 elif (item.lower() == "italic"):     
>                     sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.Italic = True
>                 elif (item.lower() == "underline"):    
>                     sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.Underline = True
>                 elif (item.lower() == "regular"):
>                     sht.Range(cellAddress).Font.FontStyle = "Regular"
>             sht.Cells(row, col).Font.Name = fontName 
>             
>     def getrange(self, sheet, rangeAddress):
>         """Returns a tuple of tuples from a range of cells. Each tuple
> corresponds to a row in excel sheet.
> 
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet           -   name of the excel worksheet
> rangeAddress    -   tuple of integers (row1,col1,row2,col2) or
> "cell1Address:cell2Address"
>                     row1,col1 refers to first cell
>                     row2,col2 refers to second cell
>                     e.g. (1,2,5,7) or "B1:G5"
>         """                    
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         if (isinstance(rangeAddress,str)):
>             return sht.Range(rangeAddress).Value 
>         elif (isinstance(rangeAddress,tuple)):
>             row1 = rangeAddress[0]
>             col1 = rangeAddress[1]
>             row2 = rangeAddress[2]
>             col2 = rangeAddress[3]            
>             return sht.Range(sht.Cells(row1, col1), sht.Cells(row2,
> col2)).Value
>         
>     def setrange(self, sheet, topRow, leftCol, data):
>         """Sets range of cells with values from data. data is a tuple
> of tuples.
> Each tuple corresponds to a row in excel sheet.
> 
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet   -   name of the excel worksheet
> topRow  -   row number (integer data type)
> leftCol -   column number (integer data type)
>         """
>         bottomRow = topRow + len(data) - 1
>         rightCol = leftCol + len(data[0]) - 1
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         sht.Range(sht.Cells(topRow, leftCol), sht.Cells(bottomRow,
> rightCol)).Value = data
>         return (bottomRow, rightCol)
>         
>     def setcellalign(self, sheet, cellAddress, alignment):
>         """Aligns the contents of the cell.
>         
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet       -   name of the excel worksheet
> cellAddress -   tuple of integers (row, cloumn) or string "ColumnRow"
>                 e.g. (3,4) or "D3"        
> alignment   -   "Left", "Right" or "center"
>         """
>         if (alignment.lower() == "left"):
>             alignmentValue = 2
>         elif ((alignment.lower() == "center") or (alignment.lower() ==
> "centre")):
>             alignmentValue = 3
>         elif (alignment.lower() == "right"):
>             alignmentValue = 4    
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         if (isinstance(cellAddress,str)):            
>             sht.Range(cellAddress).HorizontalAlignment =
> alignmentValue
>         elif (isinstance(cellAddress,tuple)):
>             row = cellAddress[0]
>             col = cellAddress[1]             
>         sht.Cells(row, col).HorizontalAlignment = alignmentValue
>         
>     def addnewworksheetbefore(self, oldSheet, newSheetName):
>         """Adds a new excel sheet before the given excel sheet.
>         
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> oldSheet        -   Name of the sheet before which a new sheet should
> be inserted
> newSheetName    -   Name of the new sheet
>         """
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(oldSheet)
>         self.xlbook.Worksheets.Add(sht).Name = newSheetName
>         
>     def addnewworksheetafter(self, oldSheet, newSheetName):
>         """Adds a new excel sheet after the given excel sheet.
>         
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> oldSheet        -   Name of the sheet after which a new sheet should
> be inserted
> newSheetName    -   Name of the new sheet
>         """
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(oldSheet)
>         self.xlbook.Worksheets.Add(None,sht).Name = newSheetName
>          
>     def insertchart(self, sheet, left, top, width, height):
>         """Creates a new embedded chart. Returns a ChartObject object.
> Refer Add Method(ChartObjects Collection) in Microsoft Excel Visual
> Basic Reference.
>         
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet           -   name of the excel worksheet
> left, top       -   The initial coordinates of the new object (in
> points), relative to the upper-left corner of cell A1 on a worksheet
> or to the upper-left corner of a chart.
> width, height   -   The initial size of the new object, in points.
>                     point   -   A unit of measurement equal to 1/72
> inch.
>         """            
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         return sht.ChartObjects().Add(left, top, width, height)
> 
>     def plotdata(self,  sheet, dataRanges, chartObject, chartType,
> plotBy=None,
>                         categoryLabels=1, seriesLabels=0,
> hasLegend=None, title=None,
>                         categoryTitle=None, valueTitle=None,
> extraTitle=None):
>         """Plots data using ChartWizard. For details refer ChartWizard
> method in Microsoft Excel Visual Basic Reference.
> Before using PlotData method InsertChart method should be used.
> 
> Description of parameters:        
> sheet       -   name of the excel worksheet. This name should be same
> as that in InsertChart method
> dataRanges  -   tuple of tuples ((topRow, leftCol, bottomRow,
> rightCol),). Range of data in excel worksheet to be plotted.
> chartObject -   Embedded chart object returned by InsertChart method.
> chartType   -   Refer plotType variable for available options.
> For remaining parameters refer ChartWizard method in Microsoft Excel
> Visual Basic Reference.
>         """
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         if (len(dataRanges) == 1):
>             topRow, leftCol, bottomRow, rightCol = dataRanges[0]
>             source = sht.Range(sht.Cells(topRow, leftCol),
> sht.Cells(bottomRow, rightCol))
>         elif (len(dataRanges) > 1):    
>             topRow, leftCol, bottomRow, rightCol = dataRanges[0]
>             source = sht.Range(sht.Cells(topRow, leftCol),
> sht.Cells(bottomRow, rightCol))
>             for count in range(len(dataRanges[1:])):            
>                 topRow, leftCol, bottomRow, rightCol =
> dataRanges[count+1]
>                 tempSource = sht.Range(sht.Cells(topRow, leftCol),
> sht.Cells(bottomRow, rightCol))
>                 source = self.xlapp.Union(source, tempSource)
>         plotType = {
>                             "Area" : 1,
>                             "Bar" : 2,
>                             "Column" : 3,
>                             "Line" : 4,
>                             "Pie" : 5,
>                             "Radar" : -4151,
>                             "Scatter" : -4169,
>                             "Combination" : -4111,
>                             "3DArea" : -4098,
>                             "3DBar" : -4099,
>                             "3DColumn" : -4100,
>                             "3DPie" : -4101,
>                             "3DSurface" : -4103,
>                             "Doughnut" : -4120,
>                             "Radar" : -4151,
>                             "Bubble" : 15,
>                             "Surface" : 83,
>                             "Cone" : 3,
>                             "3DAreaStacked" : 78,
>                             "3DColumnStacked" : 55    
>                             }
>         gallery = plotType[chartType]
>         format = None
>         chartObject.Chart.ChartWizard(source, gallery, format, plotBy,
> categoryLabels, seriesLabels, hasLegend, title, categoryTitle,
> valueTitle, extraTitle)
>     
>     def copyrange(self,source, destination):
>         """Copy range of data from source range in a sheet to
> destination range in same sheet or different sheet
> 
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> source      -   tuple (sheet, rangeAddress)
>                 sheet           -   name of the excel sheet
>                 rangeAddress    -   "cell1Address:cell2Address"
> destination -   tuple (sheet, destinationCellAddress)
>                 destinationCellAddress - string "ColumnRow"
>         """
>         sourceSht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(source[0]) 
>         destinationSht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(destination[0])
>         sourceSht.Range(source[1]).Copy(destinationSht.Range(destination[1]))
>     
>     def copychart(self, sourceChartObject, destination,delete="N"):
>         """Copy chart from source range in a sheet to destination
> range in same sheet or different sheet
> 
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sourceChartObject   -   Chart object returned by InsertChart method.
> destination         -   tuple (sheet, destinationCellAddress)
>                         sheet                  - name of the excel
> worksheet.
>                         destinationCellAddress - string "ColumnRow"
>                         if sheet is omitted and only
> destinationCellAddress is available as string data then same sheet is
> assumed.
> delete              -   "Y" or "N". If "Y" the source chart object is
> deleted after copy.
>                         So if "Y" copy chart is equivalent to move
> chart.
>         """        
>         if (isinstance(destination,tuple)):
>             sourceChartObject.Copy()            
>             sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(destination[0])
>             sht.Paste(sht.Range(destination[1]))
>         else:
>             sourceChartObject.Chart.ChartArea.Copy()
>             destination.Chart.Paste()
>         if (delete.upper() =="Y"):            
>             sourceChartObject.Delete()
>             
>     def hidecolumn(self, sheet, col):
>         """Hide a column.
> 
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet   -   name of the excel worksheet.
> col     -   column number (integer data)
>         """        
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         sht.Columns(col).Hidden = True
>         
>     def hiderow(self, sheet, row):
>         """ Hide a row.
> 
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet   -   name of the excel worksheet.
> row     -   row number (integer data)
>         """
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         sht.Rows(row).Hidden = True
>         
>     def excelfunction(self, sheet, range, function):
>         """Access Microsoft Excel worksheet functions. Refer
> WorksheetFunction Object in Microsoft Excel Visual Basic Reference
> 
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet   -   name of the excel worksheet
> range   -   tuple of integers (row1,col1,row2,col2) or
> "cell1Address:cell2Address"
>                     row1,col1 refers to first cell
>                     row2,col2 refers to second cell
>                     e.g. (1,2,5,7) or "B1:G5"
>             For list of functions refer List of Worksheet Functions
> Available to Visual Basic in Microsoft Excel Visual Basic Reference
>         """        
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         if isinstance(range,str):
>             xlRange = "(sht.Range(" + "'" + range + "'" + "))"
>         elif isinstance(range,tuple):
>             topRow = range[0]
>             leftColumn = range[1]
>             bottomRow = range[2]
>             rightColumn = range[3]
>             xlRange = "(sht.Range(sht.Cells(topRow, leftColumn),
> sht.Cells(bottomRow, rightColumn)))"
>         xlFunction = "self.xlapp.WorksheetFunction." + function + 
> xlRange
>         return eval(xlFunction, globals(), locals())
>         
>     def clearrange(self, sheet, rangeAddress, contents="Y",
> format="Y"):
>         """Clear the contents of a range of cells.
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet           -   name of the excel worksheet
> rangeAddress    -   tuple of integers (row1,col1,row2,col2) or
> "cell1Address:cell2Address"
>                         row1,col1 refers to first cell
>                         row2,col2 refers to second cell
>                         e.g. (1,2,5,7) or "B1:G5"
> contents        -   "Y" or "N". If "Y" clears the formulas from the
> range
> format          -   "Y" or "N". If "Y" clears the formatting of the
> object
>         """
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         if (isinstance(rangeAddress,str)):
>             if (format.upper() == "Y"):
>                 sht.Range(rangeAddress).ClearFormats()
>             if (contents.upper() == "Y"):
>                 sht.Range(rangeAddress).ClearContents()
>         elif (isinstance(rangeAddress,tuple)):
>             row1 = rangeAddress[0]
>             col1 = rangeAddress[1]
>             row2 = rangeAddress[2]
>             col2 = rangeAddress[3]
>             if (format.upper() == "Y"):
>                 sht.Range(sht.Cells(row1, col1), sht.Cells(row2,
> col2)).ClearFormats()
>             if (contents.upper() == "Y"):
>                 sht.Range(sht.Cells(row1, col1), sht.Cells(row2,
> col2)).ClearContents()
>                     
>     def addcomment(self, sheet, cellAddress, comment=""):
>         """Add or delete comment to a cell. If parameter comment is
> None, delete the comments
>         
> Description of parameters (self explanatory parameters are not
> described):
> sheet       -   name of the excel worksheet
> cellAddress -   tuple of integers (row, cloumn) or string "ColumnRow"
>                 e.g. (3,4) or "D3"
> comment     -   String data. Comment to be added. If None, delete
> comments
>         """
>         sht = self.xlbook.Worksheets(sheet)
>         if (isinstance(cellAddress,str)):
>             if (comment != None):
>                 sht.Range(cellAddress).AddComment(comment)
>             else:
>                 sht.Range(cellAddress).ClearComments()    
>         elif (isinstance(cellAddress,tuple)):           
>             row1 = cellAddress[0]
>             col1 = cellAddress[1]
>             if (comment != None):
>                 sht.Cells(row1, col1).AddComment(comment)
>             else:
>                 sht.Cells(row1, col1).ClearComments()        
> 
> def excelapp():
>     xlFile = UseExcel("e:\\python23\myfiles\\StudentTabulation.xls")
>     xlFile.show()
>     xlFile.setcell(sheet="Sheet1", value="Class X Annual
> Examination",fontName="Arial",
>                          cellAddress="D1",fontColor=1,
> fontStyle=("Bold",), fontSize=16)
>     xlFile.setcell(sheet="Sheet1", value="Subject : History",
> fontName="Arial",
>                          cellAddress="D3",fontColor=1)
>     data =  (
>                 ("Sl. No."  ,"Name of Students", "Roll No.",
> "Marks(out of 100)"),
>                 (1          ,"John"             ,1020, 52),
>                 (2          ,"Nikhil"           ,1021, 75),
>                 (3          ,"Stefen"           ,1025, 85),
>                 (4          ,"Thomas"           ,1026, 54),
>                 (5          ,"Ali"              ,1027, 87),
>                 (6          ,"Sanjay"           ,1028, 0)
>             )        
>     (bottomRow, rightCol) = xlFile.setrange("Sheet1", 5,2,data)
>     xlFile.addcomment("sheet1", "C11", "Absent")
>     chrt1 = xlFile.insertchart("sheet2", 100, 100, 400, 200)
>     xlFile.plotdata(sheet="sheet1",dataRanges=((6,3,bottomRow,5),),
> chartObject=chrt1,
>                     title="Annual Examination : History", plotBy=2,
> categoryLabels=1,
>                     seriesLabels=0, chartType="Bar")                  
>     #~ xlFile.clearrange("sheet1",(3,2,3,5),"y")        
>     #~ xlFile.addcomment("sheet1", "B4", "Test Comment")
>     #~ chrt1 = xlFile.insertchart("sheet1", 100, 100, 400, 250)
>     #~ xlFile.plotdata(sheet="sheet1",dataRange=(4,2,bottomRow,
> rightCol), chartObject=chrt1,
>                             #~ title="Test Chart", chartType="Column")
>     #~ xlFile.copyrange(("sheet1","C3:E3"), ("sheet2", "C3"))
>     #~ chrt2 = xlFile.insertchart("sheet2", 100, 100, 400, 250)
>     #~ xlFile.movechart(chrt1,chrt2)
>     #~ xlFile.copychart(chrt1,("sheet3","D22"), "y")
>     #~ xlFile.hiderow("sheet1",7)
>     #~ print xlFile.excelfunction("sheet1", (3,2,3,5), "Min")
>     #~ print xlFile.getrange("sheet1","A2","C3")
>     #~ xlFile.setcellfont("sheet1","Regular", "A1")
>     #~ cellVal1 = xlFile.getcell("sheet1","A1")
>     #~ xlFile.setcell("sheet1", cellVal1,1,3)
>     #~ xlFile.setcellfont("sheet1","bold","C1")
>     #~ xlFile.setcellfont("sheet1","italic",1,3)
>     #~ xlFile.setcellfont("sheet1","underline",1,3)
>     #~ xlFile.setcellalign("sheet1","left",1,3)    
>     #~ print xlFile.getrange("sheet1", "D5", "F6")
>     #~ xlFile.setrange("sheet1", 10,10,
> ((45,67),(67,"342"),(88,66.8),(32,77),(3,3)))
>     #~ xlFile.addnewworksheetafter("sheet1", "Srijit1")
>     
> if (__name__ == "__main__"):
>     excelapp()
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> srijit at yahoo.com wrote in message news:<221d8dbe.0307160619.2c2943c3 at posting.google.com>...
> > Hi,
> > I am working on Python-Excel interface based on the excellent library
> > win32com.
> > I was planning to put it up as a Python recipe in Activestate.
> > Anyway before that I shall personally send you the code after some
> > cleanup. It will be good to get an early feedback before I upload it
> > in Activestate.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Srijit
> > 
> > "Allison Bailey" <allisonb at terralogicgis.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list at python.org>...
> > > Hi Folks,
> > > 
> > > I'm a brand new Python programmer, so please point me in the right
> > > direction if this is not the best forum for this question....
> > > 
> > > I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
> > > information from specific worksheets and cells.
> > > 
> > > I'm not really sure how to get started with this process.
> > > I ran the COM Makepy utility from my PythonWin (IDE from ActiveSTate),
> > > using Microsoft Excel 10.0 Object Library, then
> > > import win32com.client
> > > xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> > > wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")
> > > 
> > > Then, I get errors when I try the following:
> > > sh = wb.worksheets(1)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I think I'm missing something fairly fundamental, but I've googled all
> > > over the place and can't seem to find anything very introductory about
> > > opening and using data from MS Excel using Python.  Any suggestions,
> > > including places to get more information are welcome.  
> > > 
> > > Also, do I need to run the makepy utility every time I run my script?
> > > If so, how would I do it from within my Python program, rather than with
> > > the GUI in the IDE?
> > > 
> > > Thanks for your help,
> > > 
> > > Allison
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Allison Bailey
> > > TerraLogic GIS, Inc.
> > > allisonb at terralogicgis.com
> > > 425-673-4495
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 25 10:28:44 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:28:44 +0200
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com> <bkumfg$ifj$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bkuoeb$kbt$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkuu57$pc6$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

>> You have to know the encoding of the original file.
> 
> Why? It's of type 'str' and I would expect that I could write it to DB and
> get the same 'str' back. That's all I want. Why is it required do know the
> encoding?

str is essentially a sequence of bytes that can store the same content in
different ways:

>>> utf8 = u"?".encode("utf8")
>>> latin = u"?".encode("latin1")
>>> latin
'\xe4'
>>> utf8
'\xc3\xa4'
>>>

Now imagine you store the latter byte sequence in your database and want to
display it in your windows editor

>>> print utf8
??
(you should see two strange characters)

I had this problem occasionally when I edited python scripts with idle and,
oddly enough, my old c++ builder 3 ide. 

To avoid such ambiguities, unicode is introduced. Now I guess that the first
conversion, when your string data is fed to the db api, is performed
automatically using the default encoding of your environment, which may
differ from the encoding of the downloaded file, thus probably messing up
some characters.

Of course you could store the file in binary form (not in a memo field) in
your db and thus bypass all encoding mechanisms, but if you still think
that a string is a string is a string, you should reread the above or
go for more detailed information on the matter.

Peter





From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Fri Sep 19 06:10:41 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:10:41 +0100
Subject: Python ISPs
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkeknn$70f$1@sea.gmane.org>

Paradox wrote:
> Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
> seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
> this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
> leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
> solution.
> 
>                         Thanks Joey.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonHosting

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 26 13:57:42 2003
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 10:57:42 -0700
Subject: COM Dispatch() and multiple instances
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0309260957.7d8755da@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I try win32com.client.Dispatch('InternetExplorer.Application'), and it
returns an instance of the running IE object. If there are multiple
instances of IE running, how can I make sure I get the one I want?

thanks,

Hung Jung



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 13:49:00 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:49:00 +0100
Subject: Money data type
References: <mailman.1063901790.24630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iorjmv4dqhbabfepraf3i3ugsg59ot2gaa@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:15:26 -0300, "Batista, Facundo"
<FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote:

>Anyway, all roads leads to FixedPoint (all roads leads to Trantor, :))

Well, one road leads to BCD, but I don't know of any support for BCD
in Python (all I can find from a net search is that it was on the
agenda at a Python conference in 2001!)  Fancy writing a BCD module?



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 15 07:40:38 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:40:38 +0200
Subject: I: caching the sql queries
In-Reply-To: <003501c37b7c$486781d0$410100a4@utente65>
References: <003501c37b7c$486781d0$410100a4@utente65>
Message-ID: <3F65A536.3040708@ghaering.de>

Luca Calderano wrote:
> I MEAN YOU CAN ACCESS ADO TROUGHT COM
> AS EXPLAINED HERE: [...]

No need to shout. This is all fine and dandy, but perhaps you should
look at the link the OP posted ;-)

Considering you have database experience as well, I'd be interested in
hearing your opinion about something like this. I personally find it 
awful :-D

-- Gerhard




From yorklee70 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 11 07:41:48 2003
From: yorklee70 at yahoo.com (York)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:41:48 +0100
Subject: Debug python programs
Message-ID: <bjpn2s$8bh$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Hi, anybody,

Would you please recommend some good softwares/methods for 
tracking/debugging python codes.

Thanks,
York



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 26 08:46:34 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:46:34 -0400
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path  separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064540736.16016.python-list@python.org> <2aNcb.3620$RW4.1866@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F74352A.5E50B2B5@engcorp.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> 
> Bob Gailer:
> > Good question. Certainly later than:
> >
> > Microsoft Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195]
> > (C) Copyright 1985-2000 Microsoft Corp.
> >
> > C:\>cd /samis
> > The syntax of the command is incorrect.
> 
> The shell is parsing the line and interprets the "/" as a
> command-line flag,  Try a relative path, like
> 
>   cd ./samis

And of course, there's always:

C:\>ver
Windows 98 [Version 4.10.2222]

C:\>cd ./temp
Too many parameters - /TEMP

C:\>cd ./temp"
Too many parameters - /TEMP"

C:\>cd "./temp"

C:\>


But I digress... *you* guys were talking about operating systems. ;-)

-Peter



From medved at fcc.net  Thu Sep  4 14:50:51 2003
From: medved at fcc.net (ted holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:50:51 -0400
Subject: Zope locking
Message-ID: <ZqednXzZPebV8MqiXTWJhg@fcc.net>

Dumb question here.

Every once in a while, while playing around with or experimenting with Zope, 
I either get clumsy with my hands and don't click something thoroughly 
enough or I do some combination of things which Zope can't deal with (this 
is on the manage screen), and the thing locks up.  All I've been able to do 
so far when that happens is to break out of zope, kill any zope processes 
lying around, and delete the lock file which gets created in the var 
subdirectory.

I assume there's got to be some better way, i.e. some step I could take from 
the manage screen which would unhang or unlock the system.  I'd appreciate 
hearing from anybody who knows what that might be.


Ted Holden
medved at fcc.net



From nomail at nomail.com  Tue Sep  9 13:14:29 2003
From: nomail at nomail.com (Michael Schmitt)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:14:29 +0200
Subject: Errors while compiling SWIG wrappers on Solaris
Message-ID: <bjl1pm$2oi99$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Hello.

I am trying to compile SWIG wrappers for the Python interface of libsvm on 
SunOS 5.9, using g++ 3.2.1. I constantly get "relocations remain" error 
from the linker.

I tried some hints I found on the web:
"-shared" for compiling and linking.
"-fPIC".
"-Wl,-G".

But none of these (also in combinations) worked. Any ideas?

Thanks for any help.
Michael

--------------------
Text relocation remains                         referenced
    against symbol                  offset      in file
<unknown>                           0x2610      ../svm.o
<unknown>                           0x2614      ../svm.o
.
.
.
ld: fatal: relocations remain against allocatable but non-writable sections
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `svmc.so'






From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 17 10:51:58 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:51:58 +0200
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Hilde Roth wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion but zip is not nice for large lists
> and as for array/numpy, although I chose a numeric example in
> the posting, I don't see why only numeric arrays should enjoy
> the benefit of such a notation.
> 
> l[;0] is illegal right now but does anyone of any other bit
> of syntax it might conflict with if proposed as an extension?

I think that in alist[from:to:step] the step argument is already overkill.
If there is sufficient demand for column extraction, I would rather make it
a method of list, as alist[:columnIndex] can easily be confused with
alist[;toIndex] (or was it the other way round :-). Would you allow
slicing, too, or make slicing and column extraction mutually exclusive?
Here's how to extract rows 2,4,6 and then columns 4 to 5:

m = n[2:7:2;4:6]  # not valid python

Also, ";" is already used (though seldom found in real code) as an alternate
way to delimit statements.
So your suggestion might further complicate the compiler without compelling
benefits over the method approach.

Peter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Sep  7 14:29:09 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:29:09 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <p3idnVDIPrJm5caiU-KYgg@comcast.com>

To the extent that my comments were misdirected and/or unwarrented, I
retract and/or apologize.

I did not notice that the demo fromt page is merely a dead image.  I
was mislead by the word 'mock-up'.  To me, a mock-up page would have
real html, even if filled with dummy text and stub links.  While a
mock-up airplane does not fly , it is a real 3-d object, not an image.
In any case, the page looks enough like many live pages I have visited
(usually corporation front pages) that I was fooled.

The comments page *is* live, not an image.  It was also unusually
painful and difficult for me to read.

I usually don't care too much what people do with their pages.  If I
can't read it, I move on to one of the millions of others vying for my
attention.  However, python.org is one I visit a lot (top 5, surely)
and I really care about being able to continue reading it.

Perhaps Python needs two front pages or even two sites.  One for the
IT manager types that you seem to be aiming at, who would be impressed
by the corporate look that tends to depress me, and one for
programmers just looking for info.  The current site, perhaps with
more tweeks, is pretty good for the latter but not, I would agree, for
the former.

Terry J. Reedy





From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 22 10:29:53 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:29:53 +0200
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bkn12v$tns$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>> Everytime that someone posts a naive list.sort(compare), the DSU pattern
>> is proposed to improve execution speed.
>> 
>> So maybe it's about time to change the sort() method to support a second
>> argument
>> 
>> list.sort(compare=None, mapping=None)
>> 
>> that, if provided, would perform the DSU magic. Or was that already
>> proposed and rejected?
> 
> I have not seen this proposed before, and I'm not very clear on what
> the "compare" and "mapping" arguments are supposed to be in order to
> let you specify any DSU.  Basically it seems you would need two
> callables, "decorate" to be called with each item in the list (to
> return for each item the decorated tuple) and "undecorate" to be
> called with each decorated tuple after the sort (to return the item
> for the result).  How do you turn that into "compare" and "mapping"?

My first idea was to add a .dsu(mapping) where the tuples in the decoration
phase would be generated as (mapping(item), item). 
But I would rather enhance the already-existing sort() to provide for both
the traditional and the dsu sorting. Then you have to detect if the
function passed to sort(fun) takes one or two arguments, which is not
reliable when default values come into play. So I resorted to named
arguments. Didn't make it any clearer?

So here is a pure python prototype to shed some light on the matter:

class dsu(list):
    def sort(self, compare=None, mapping=None):
        if mapping:
            decorated = [(mapping(i), i) for i in self]
            decorated.sort()
            self[:] = [i[1] for i in decorated]
        else:
            list.sort(self, compare)

sample = dsu("ab Aa AC d e f".split())

# "traditional" sort
sample.sort(lambda s, t: -cmp(s, t))
print sample

# decorate-sort-undecorate
sample.sort(mapping=lambda s: s.lower())
print sample


Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Sep 20 15:47:34 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:47:34 -0400
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
References: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com> <3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9@engcorp.com> <j8mdnRu0dsXxR_aiU-KYjQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3F6CAED6.8B2A4ED@engcorp.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9 at engcorp.com...
> > > Does this make any sense at all?  where did the lead c in conn_fee
> go?
> >
> > Based on the behaviour you describe, I would assume lstrip()
> > removes, starting at the beginning of the string, all characters
> > which are *anywhere* in the argument string you give it, until
> > it encounters a character not in that string, at which point it
> > stops.
> 
> Good call:  from Lib Ref 2.2.6.1 String Methods
> 
> lstrip( [chars])
> 
> Return a copy of the string with leading characters removed. If chars
> is omitted or None, whitespace characters are removed. If given and
> not None, chars must be a string; the characters in the string will be
> stripped from the beginning of the string this method is called on.

I think that last phrase might be responsible for the OP's confusion.
Even now my brain interprets it as meaning the *string* formed by those
characters will be removed from the beginning of the string, not that
each occurrence of any character in that arg string will be removed
from the target.

-Peter



From mleeds at mlp.com  Sat Sep 13 16:51:16 2003
From: mleeds at mlp.com (Leeds, Mark)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:51:16 -0400
Subject: stripping a string
Message-ID: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>

hello : i am very much a python novice because
I only use it for preprocessing data that
i send into another language called Splus.
 
I have the following problem that
I have spent a lot of time on but I
can't figure out.
 
I have a string called tickerstring
that might be 
 
"ANL LN32"
 
and i want to get rid of the digit piece.
so that i get "ANL LN"
 
i can't just take off the last two charcters
because the string could also be
 
"ANL LN3" for example.
 
thanks to anyone who could explain
how to do this ?
 
                                    mark
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Sep 24 17:41:45 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:41:45 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksmrs$1u0$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <wuWcnZEWT_4Eku-iXTWJhQ@comcast.com>

"vincent wehren" <vincent at visualtrans.de> wrote in message
news:bksmrs$1u0$1 at news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Than why does the documentation (at least the Windows CHM-one)
repeat the
> claim:
> "Release 2.4a0, documentation updated on 23 September 2003."  on
each page!
> ;)

Because of a glitch in the release process that wasn't noticed until
just after the release, and because it was not seen as serious enough
to withdraw until redone.

The main development line for Python *is* the future 2.4a0 release.
Some or most bug-fix only patches (including doc patches) were
backported to the 2.3 maintainance branch (of CVS repository) to make
this release.  Somehow, one thing too many got backported ;-).

Terry J. Reedy





From avera at coes.org.pe  Wed Sep 24 21:45:28 2003
From: avera at coes.org.pe (Alberto Vera)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:45:28 -0500
Subject: getting a value from a web-page
Message-ID: <000d01c38306$b2888640$1603a8c0@pc22>

Hello:

Is it possible to get a row from a text-file? This text-file is located in a web page.
And a value from an excel located in a web-server? (Sheet1!cell A1)

Regards
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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Sep 25 12:40:10 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:40:10 -0400
Subject: pythonwin from dos
References: <3f731176.33482654@powernews.libero.it>
Message-ID: <vn66jje743n725@news.supernews.com>

"Alberto Mantovani" <alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it> wrote in
message news:3f731176.33482654 at powernews.libero.it...
> hi,
> how is it possible to run a python script  in the pythonwin
> environment from dos command line?
> If I use the command "/run scriptname.py" and the pythonwin is already
> opened I get error, so someone can help me?

Why do you want to run it in Pythonwin? To run a script from
one of the command lines, the correct command is:

    python scriptname.py parameters....

Of course, python.exe has to be on the path.

John Roth
>
> thanks
> Alberto





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Sep  7 14:09:16 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:09:16 +0200
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062951732.14553.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjfsji$3in$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote:

>>John W Hall
>>> When I view _this_ site in IE6, it has low-contrast text in a small
>>> size, which "view|text size" cannot change.
>>
>>Did I mention it was an image?
>
>Sorry, gotcha now...  www.zeldman.com

If you're planning to score any success in the open source community
you should stop admitting mistakes and stop defending against false
accusations. Only yesterday I posted some code with an obvious
superflous construct in it, but rather than reply to my own post I
would wait and give usenets selfpurging system a chance to correct it.
Remember there's no method to get good information that functions as
swift as posting false information (even if noone replies to it).

Anton



From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Fri Sep 12 08:51:48 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:21:48 +0530
Subject: python program not running from different folders
In-Reply-To: <004701c37925$5ea86170$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro>; from jboti@integrasoft.ro on Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 02:59:50PM +0300
References: <001701c3791f$e80fea10$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro> <20030912170828.A4664@cs.unipune.ernet.in> <004701c37925$5ea86170$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro>
Message-ID: <20030912182148.A6083@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 02:59:50PM +0300, Jozsa Boti wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in>
> To: "Jozsa Boti" <jboti at integrasoft.ro>
> Cc: <python-list at python.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: python program not running from different folders
> 
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 02:20:43PM +0300, Jozsa Boti wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > I have a strange problem: I wrote a program in python, and I get an
> error: ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function
> (initESSClientAPI) but only if I run the program in certain folders. The
> same program runs without any error from other folders. Any ideas?
> > >
> >
> > As u have described it seems that the folder from which u are trying to
> run the
> > script contains some dll/so which have the same name as one of the modules
> u are
> > using in your script.
> >
> > eg. like in your script u have:
> >
> > import xyz
> > #call some function from xyz
> > xyz.funct()
> >
> > here xyz is some python module u are using.
> >
> > but as the error message says it may be that the particular folder from
> which
> > the script gives ImportError contains some dll/so with the same name i.e.
> > xyz.dll or xyz.so.
> >
> > Still it is just a wild guess :-)
> >
> > Regards
> > Vivek Kumar
> 
> Thanks for the tip!
> This was the problem indeed. I had a dll written in C++, which is needed by
> another application, once that dll was removed, the program was running
> without any error.
> My concern is how can I overcome this error without renaming some files?
> 
> Boti

In that case you better place you script in a separate folder and make sure that
that particular dll in not in the system path, coz it is mainly a path related
problem. When u import a module then first of all the current folder is
searched for the module, so if u want to keep ur script and the dll in the 
same folder then AFAIK u are out of luck.

Regards
Vivek Kumar




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Sep  7 23:15:33 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 03:15:33 GMT
Subject: Is there a unicode EOF mark like DOS ascii ctl-z or unix crl-d ?
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 18:01:17 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> I couldn't find one.
>
>Unicode subsumes the normal ASCII control characters, so U0004 is EOT
>(end of transmission) just like 0x04 in ASCII is:
>
>	http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0000.pdf
>
>Unicode also includes a _symbol_ for it at U2404.
>
Thanks. I tried EOT on the assumption, but windows console type command doesn't stop on it,
much less notepad, so I guess I have to do something else.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 01:53:09 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:53:09 +0100
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <f4b2nv8vs81v6egonckq7935jmh6a8gku6@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:30:31 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger"
<vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

>Proposal
>========
>
>Add a method called iter_backwards() to sequence objects that can benefit
>from it.  The above examples then simplify to::
>
>    for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
>        print seqn[i]
>
>    for elem in seqn.iter_backwards():
>        print elem

That is a pretty long name. Can we use the convention from itertools
where an 'i' prefix is sufficient to suggest an iterator, giving
'ibackwards' or 'ireverse' or similar.

Second, I'm not quite ready to drop my property idea ;-)

An advantage is that the object returned by the property can sensibly
support more than just iteration - e.g. slicing (as touched on in the
PEP284 thread). So for instance...

>>> x = range(10)
>>> list(x.backward)
[9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0]
>>> list(x.backward [::2])
[8, 6, 4, 2, 0]

>* Should file objects be included?  Implementing reverse iteration may not
>  be easy though it would be useful on occasion.

IMO no - doing this essentially needs the whole file to be read into
memory, in which case you may as well read the whole file into a list
and then iterate the list backwards.

>* Should enumerate() be included?  It would only provide reverse iteration
>  whenever the underlying sequence supported it.

Why not...

  for i, j in enumerate (listname.iter_backwards ()) :

in other words, as enumerate can handle the already-reversed
sequence/iteration, I don't see the point.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From amk at amk.ca  Fri Sep 12 07:40:48 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:40:48 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:56:55 +0300, 
	Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote:
> I don't know, I got mail about writing a PEP. It is clear that it would 
> not be accepted, because it would break the existing API. The change is 
> so big that I think that it has to be called a different language.

It would just be a different implementation of the same language.  Jython
has different garbage collection characteristics from CPython, but they
still implement the same language; Stackless Python is still Python.

> because this is too important to be ignored. Python *needs* to be 
> free-threading...

On the other hand, considering that the last free threading packages were
for 1.4, and no one has bothered to update them, the community doesn't seem
to find the subject as important as you do. :)

--amk



From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Mon Sep  8 18:30:45 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 22:30:45 GMT
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <mailman.1062774119.18681.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hawkfish-96D864.15285508092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

In article <mailman.1062774119.18681.python-list at python.org>,
 Andy Todd <andy47 at halfcooked.com> wrote:

> Richard Wesley wrote:
> > I don't know if this is really a Python question of a MySQL question, 
> > but i am hopen that there is enough overlap that someone can help me ;-)
> > 
> > I have a unit test suite for our server that loads a clean database 
> > image for many of the tests.  I use
> > 
> > p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
> > p.write(sql_commands)
> > 
> > to load the database.
> > 
> > While the tests are running, I find that mysql has a growing number of 
> > "Sleeping" threads in the 'show processlist' table.  Towards the end of 
> > the test suite, the database loads start to fail with a MySQL error of 
> > "ERROR 1040: Too many connections".
> > 
> > So my question would be, is there any way to shut down the child process 
> > so that MySQL notices and cleans up after itself before it runs out of 
> > threads?
> > 
> > TIA,
> > 
> 
> As you aren't using the Python MySQL module and just piping commands to 
> an OS process then its likely to be a MySQL problem.
> 
> However, its hard to figure out what you're doing wrong because you 
> don't tell us what you are doing. What, for instance, are the contents 
> of 'sql_commands'?

They are the output of a mysqldump command that was read in from a file.

> Generally, if a database complains about too many connections it is 
> because you are explicitly (and repeatedly) connecting to it and then 
> not releasing those connections when you are finished with them.

Yes, that is the problem, but it is not clear how to release the 
connections.  They get released immediately when the script terminates.  
I am wondering of it is a gc problem.

> Then again, if you are just loading test data into a clean database I'd 
> suggest using some of the MySQL utilities to back up and restore and not 
> writing your own code. Have a look at mysqldump 
> (http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/mysqldump.html)

That is what I am doing.

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"You miss too much these days if you stop to think."
                  - U2, "Waiting for the End of the World"



From mark at hahnca.com  Wed Sep 17 20:13:44 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:13:44 -0700
Subject: wanted($):  mac and linux python gui coders for porting
References: <EHr9b.36540$n94.18214@fed1read04> <8dsfmvo15uftg7qvc0oivmsg6eeeqelvtm@4ax.com> <6ee58e07.0309170528.9c81592@posting.google.com> <U3%9b.39616$n94.30901@fed1read04> <6ee58e07.0309171554.57e4a44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XM6ab.40410$n94.3516@fed1read04>

I'm not going to be marketing it.  Discussions are under way with several
"re-distributors" who would do the actual marketing.  Apparently there is
money to be made in the $10 "throw-away-money" market.  Anyway, I just write
it, I don't care who buys it or why.  In any case, my understanding is that
the intended market is friends and relatives of computer-savvy people, not
the computer-savvy people themselves.  You may have a big dsl pipe but I'll
bet your parents don't.

As to whether linux people would use it, that's beyond my understanding.
Are there non-computer-savvy people using linux who had their pc set up by
others, who could benefit from gut-simple software?  I know there are
non-gurus using macs.  I gave my mom a mac and she is really challenged by
AOL.  This app would be great for her.

As to your problem:  What version are you using?  I've been fixing bugs like
crazy the last few days.  I think it is settling down now.  Try the latest
version.  If you still have problems let me know.

P.S.  If you don't mind, extend the testing all the way to using PayPal.  I
promise that I'm reversing all charges at the end of beta testing.  (I know
that may sound suspicious, but I really am honest :)

"Lothar Scholz" <llothar at web.de> wrote in message
news:6ee58e07.0309171554.57e4a44 at posting.google.com...
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> wrote in message
news:<U3%9b.39616$n94.30901 at fed1read04>...
> > >With his marketing skills
> >
> > Whose skills are you reffering to?
>
> Yours. Maybe a website is on the way, instead of the current simple
> page.
>
>
> By the way: The program throws an exception when i want to add a
> picture.
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 378, in OnMouseDown
>   File "<string>", line 695, in OnAddPhoto
>   File
"C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
> line 434, in choose_photo
>   File
"C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
> line 392, in __init__
>   File
"C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
> line 288, in set_path
>   File
"C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
> line 208, in PaintNow
>   File
"C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
> line 222, in paint
>   File
"C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
> line 137, in get_bitmap_bigpath
>   File "<string>", line 522, in save_datastore
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'data/app_datastore.pkl'





From llothar at web.de  Fri Sep 12 10:04:23 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 07:04:23 -0700
Subject: Internal Debugger Question
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309120604.3a1f4985@posting.google.com>

Hello,

i'm currently writing a debugger for python and found that some
modules store an absolute file path in "co_filename" of there
methods/functions and some store a relative file path. Because the
relative file path can never be expanded to an absolute file path
later (the sys.path may have changed) it is impossible to find the
source code location.

Is there anything i have missed or is this simply a bug. I would
highly recommend to fix this bug !



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Sep 26 14:13:15 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 14:13:15 -0400
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <bl1vjr$fha$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <un0crhase.fsf at boost-consulting.com>,
David Abrahams  <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:
>
>Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
>disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where are they?

I've gone ahead and added a link to the /doc/ sidebar.  I was the one
who argued that if we were reducing the size of the home page, the PEP
link should go.  Note that there is a /dev/ link in the sidebar, too,
listed as "Python Project: bugs, patchs, cvs".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Thu Sep 18 05:06:25 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:06:25 +0400
Subject: how to write-protect names
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063841844.13119.python-list@python.org>
References: <3F68C499.1060604@aon.at>	<3F68C60C.AC611276@engcorp.com>	<3F68CE89.20601@aon.at>	<3F68D53B.CE7DF693@engcorp.com> <mailman.1063841844.13119.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkbsih$102e$1@news.peterlink.ru>

python wrote:
> Can you post a trivial example of how to use __setattr__() and how to
> set the namespace in the interpreter?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 

Really basic one:

class Namespace(object):
     def __setattr__(self, name, value):
         if name in self.__dict__:
             raise "oops"
         object.__setattr__(self, name, value)

util = Namespace()

util.x = 1
print util.x

util.x = 2




From mwh at python.net  Fri Sep 26 14:04:24 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:04:24 GMT
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <mailman.1064537919.23612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3brt7o2h8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> [Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou'
> >>> If only math.log(2**64)/math.log(10) worked with longs without
> >>> converting them into floats first... :(
> >>
> >> And after reading the FM, if only
> >>
> >> def count_digits(x):
> >>     return int(math.log(x, 10))
> >>
> >> worked correctly for *all* large values, like 10**70...
> 
> [Michael Hudson]
> > Um, it does :-)
> >
> > >>> float(40**200)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float
> > >>> math.log(40**200, 14)
> > 279.56038792470861
> >
> > (10**70 is well within the range of an IEEE double).
> 
> You're not used to answering floating-point questions <wink>.

Or prehaps just conveniently ignoring what "work" means in a given
context :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Make this IDLE version 0.8.  (We have to skip 0.7 because that 
  was a CNRI release in a corner of the basement of a government 
  building on a planet circling Aldebaran.)
                             -- Guido Van Rossum, in a checkin comment



From theller at python.net  Wed Sep 17 15:07:12 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:07:12 +0200
Subject: Sound, time and platform issues
References: <bka4k6$j9a$1@news.peterlink.ru>
Message-ID: <oexjgrof.fsf@python.net>

anton muhin <antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru> writes:

> Hello everybody!
>
> I need advice and expertise of the community for the following problem.
>
> I'm going to make a psycholinguistic experiment. In this experiment
> the auditor is asked to listen to some text and to press the button
> when some event occurs. I need to find out reaction time on different
> inputs and, therefore, I need 1) rather accurate (or, at least,
> constantly biased) estimates for the moment the button was pressed,
> and 2) "real-time" sound playing.
>
> Googling finds out several Python toolkits for dealing with sound, but
> they are for Linux, not Windows.
>
> Therefore questions:
> 1. Does anybody know about Python tools that might help to solve the
> problem above for Windows?

The winsound module included with Python? It allows playing wav files.
And time.clock() will provide accurate timing, AFAIK.

Thomas



From klapotec at chello.at  Fri Sep 26 11:10:37 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:10:37 GMT
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3F74546F.AF665B35@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <skl8nvc4jud22cfrrf7i4on9ecnftmlm8s@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:59:59 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>David Abrahams wrote:
>> 
>> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
>> disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where are they?
>
>Why on the the Documentation page, of course.  ;-)
>
>-Peter

...and also on the Developers page.

--Christopher



From BrenBarn at aol.com  Mon Sep  8 13:29:28 2003
From: BrenBarn at aol.com (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: 8 Sep 2003 17:29:28 GMT
Subject: exec code with timeout?
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062996311.6727.python-list@python.org> <Xns93EFE34728E26OKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062999372.21845.python-list@python.org> <qaY6b.29120$hE5.1041098@news1.tin.it> <87n0dfcx7v.fsf@pobox.com> <9X_6b.44056$R32.1398393@news2.tin.it> <ad9fp9zg.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns93F06A27527F3OKB@130.133.1.4>

Paul Moore wrote:

>>>> import thread
>>>> import time
> 
>>>> def alarm(sec):
> ...     def wait(sec):
> ...         time.sleep(sec)
> ...         thread.interrupt_main()
> ...     thread.start_new_thread(wait, (sec,))

    	This looks perfect!  Many thanks.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Sep  3 11:38:12 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  3 Sep 2003 08:38:12 -0700
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
Message-ID: <1062603492.3f560ae4ea60d@mcherm.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> No, it's apparently deliberate that slices don't hash (so that
> {}[1:2] raises an error).  I think that slice(None).__hash__ is from
> object.__hash__, but this is rightfully(?) ignored by PyObject_Hash()
> which looks at tp_hash (NULL for slice objects) and tp_compare (non-NULL
> for slice objects) with the result that the object is treated as
> unhashable.

Leaving Stefan Fleiter somewhat puzzled:
> So, should I write a bugreport or not?
> Are you sure it is "rightfully ignored" or not?
> 
> Somewhat puzzled,
> Stefan

Stefan:

Go ahead and submit the bugreport. If it's desired that {}[1:2]
raises an error (and I believe Guido has been asked and has declared
that this is his desired behavior), then slice(1,2).__hash__()
should raise an exception -- to do otherwise is misleading. You
wanted to know if slices were hashable, so you tried out __hash__ --
IMHO that's the proper approach, and you shouldn't have to examine
the C code.

So submit the bugreport, but I'm guessing that slices will remain
unhashable. IIRC, Guido felt that the risk of confusion (folks 
thinking that {}[1:2] would return some part or subset of the dict) 
was greater than the utility of using slices as keys in a dict
(for which, I believe, he was unable to come up with a single
plausible use case).

-- Michael Chermside






From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep 25 08:19:51 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:19:51 GMT
Subject: getting a value from a web-page
References: <mailman.1064454334.1269.python-list@python.org> <d3c9c04.0309250049.2f06b7d5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064486917.24431.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <H3Bcb.163889$R32.5271319@news2.tin.it>

Gerrit Holl wrote:

> Mark Carter wrote:
>> > And a value from an excel located in a web-server? (Sheet1!cell A1)
>> 
>> Do you mean an excel file located on your server, or somebody else's
>> server? If it is on your server, you could manipulate the file
>> directly using Mark Hammond's excellent win32all:
>> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/
> 
> Is it possible to do so without Windows?

No, win32all only runs on Windows (perhaps it might be ported to
WINE or something, but I know of nothing like that ever being done).
Microsoft Excel can run just fine on Linux thanks to "Crossover
Office" (or, presumably, other versions of Wine, too), but I do
not know how to "programmatically" drive it from Python under
such environments.

One possibility might be to use OpenOffice 1.1 (which is able to
open and read XLS files, and can in turn be driven by Python with
the new "Python-UNO bridge" included in OO release 1.1) -- but I
have, as yet, no practical experience doing that.


Alex




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 03:54:44 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:54:44 +0100
Subject: pop3 email header classifier?
References: <GmZAOKA6Uya$Ew2E@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <r81tmvo2rph8109ohf357mq2fajkliqhoh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5enPgJAErqb$Ewbv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <r81tmvo2rph8109ohf357mq2fajkliqhoh at 4ax.com>, Tim Roberts
<timr at probo.com> writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Hi, I'm getting vast numbers of fake upgrade emails containing some kind
>>of virus. My rather old client can be made to reject these based on some
>>patterns in the subject line. They're nearly all based on the word
>>'New', 'Latest', 'Microsoft', 'Patch', 'Pack', ... etc etc.
>>
>>Is there a python tool that can be made to delete these from my POP3
>>mail box rather than let my client reject? Quite a few seem to have
>>semi-valid return addresses so I get postmaster rejects from
>>xxx at microsoft.com etc.
>
>Is your e-mail client actually set up to send a RESPONSE when you receive a
>virus attachment?  If so, can you please STOP IT AT ONCE?
>

I have no virus detection in the client and am deliberately not
rejecting. That was the whole point of my question I wanted to do
better.

As a point of fact with this SWEN worm, it does seem possible to kill by
a combination of the subject, from address and attachment size. The
spambayes approach would certainly work, but it wouldn't improve my
download times. I estimate I had about 50Mb of these things to download
yesterday (ie 3-4 hours @ 56k). By employing a kill script I could keep
up fairy easily.

I'm certainly not sending any response or rejecting, I'm using DELE
which should be a sink.

>ALL viruses released in the last 3 years choose random names for both the
>sender AND recipient.  It is not possible to automatically extract the
>infected individual's e-mail address from a virus message.  You can find
>the address of their e-mail server, but that's all.
>
>By sending a polite "you sent me a virus" message, you are doing NOTHING to
>stop the viruses, you are ANNOYING an innocent person, and you are DOUBLING
>the e-mail volume damage caused by the virus script kiddies.
>
>I got close to 10,000 helpful and completely bogus "you sent my a virus"
>messages during the "SoBig" fiasco.

-- 
Robin Becker



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Sep 22 12:40:41 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:40:41 +0200
Subject: Where to publish my code
In-Reply-To: <APBbb.116957$bo1.12014@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <1f0bdf30.0309212039.16c9bef0@posting.google.com> <87r829t75e.fsf@pobox.com> <APBbb.116957$bo1.12014@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3f6f2609$0$58701$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Neil Hodgson wrote:

>    After a couple of months of doing this I received a request to move the
> files from the web space to the release system. May depend on how often your
> files are downloaded.

Probably because the files on the file release system are
mirrorred to SF's download mirrors, while the web content
always comes from their own server.

--Irmen




From max at nospam.com  Fri Sep 26 15:56:24 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:56:24 GMT
Subject: PIL: Group4 Tiff Images
In-Reply-To: <l449nvo49lq8jvmndluvtb4lqq894889eg@4ax.com>
References: <mqm8nvsetc3vtddlt05p24jn6bevbnuvuh@4ax.com> <z5%cb.28323$nU6.4440971@twister.nyc.rr.com> <l449nvo49lq8jvmndluvtb4lqq894889eg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <IR0db.17372$lZ6.4486895@twister.nyc.rr.com>

> How do the headers come through now?  I think I set them the same as
> my sig e-mail.
> 
> 
> Doug Tolton
> (format t "~a@~a~a.~a" "dtolton" "ya" "hoo" "com")
Now you got it :)




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Sep 24 16:11:27 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:11:27 +0200
Subject: Python Glossary
In-Reply-To: <16241.53538.40615.455582@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16241.53538.40615.455582@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030924201127.GA5122@nl.linux.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Thanks to people who submitted content for the Python Glossary:
> 
>     http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary

I think it may also be useful to add some terms that are not
related to programming, but do occur in the tutorial and may
be difficult for some users.

When I first read the tutorial (years ago), I was really frightened
by the section on complex numbers. I had never heard of them, and
I did also not understand immediatly that I could skip this section.
I would have been helped then by a note that I would not need them,
and maybe even a short introduction of what they are (however, I
was 14, so I would probably not be able to understand them).

Gerrit.

-- 
164. If his father-in-law do not pay back to him the amount of the
"purchase price" he may subtract the amount of the "Purchase price" from
the dowry, and then pay the remainder to her father's house.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From avera at coes.org.pe  Thu Sep 25 09:45:53 2003
From: avera at coes.org.pe (Alberto Vera)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:45:53 -0500
Subject: send email 
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEBF99AB@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <003101c3836b$56b72b90$1603a8c0@pc22>

Thanks for your reply.

I'd like to explain the problem to get a better idea about this.

A python program check every minute if a value is 0 in a register on a
database. In this case using Python, it'll send an email.


Thanks


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com>
To: "Alberto Vera" <avera at coes.org.pe>; <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: send email


> > From: Alberto Vera [mailto:avera at coes.org.pe]
> >
> > Could you tell me How I can send an email using WIN2000? What do I need?
>
> Most people use an email client. Common ones are Outlook, Outlook Express
and Eudora.
>
> For more information, look here:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> Tim Delaney
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From nospamius at lundhansen.dk  Mon Sep  1 12:45:04 2003
From: nospamius at lundhansen.dk (Bertel Lund Hansen)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:45:04 +0200
Subject: HELP : class and variables
References: <5c184570.0309010801.2353a3cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ujt6lvgp7j0id2h42jnin1uf5r2g5ilis7@news.telia.dk>

vincent delft skrev:

>Can you explain the following ?

Yes.

>class test:
>  var1=1
>  var2=2
>  res=var1+var2

>t=test()
>print t.res
>>> 3

>t.var1=6
>print t.res
>>> 3

Changing var1 does not change res.

You might like to make it a function instead:

class Test:
  var1=1
  var2=2
  def res (self):
    return self.var1+self.var2

t=Test()
t.var1=6
print t.res()

I learned in Java to give classes names with the first letter
capitalized. I find that a useful convention.

-- 
Bertel, Denmark



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 16 11:57:15 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:57:15 -0400
Subject: Duck Typing
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063720351.23661.python-list@python.org> <3gG9b.12137$3Y2.2543@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3F6732DB.F31A954E@engcorp.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> exquacktly [ducks and runs]
              ^^^^^

Steve, did you even _know_ you did this?  You're sick!

-Peter  :-)



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 23 09:25:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:25:39 -0400
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F7049D3.14C48D43@engcorp.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> 
> I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some
> point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost
> certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince
> them otherwise.

Do you need to convince them now, to allow you to continue working on it
in Python, or are you just preparing for the time when they will come and
ask for it to be done in Perl?

I ask because I suspect the best way of convincing them will be to do 
nothing, and stand back watching as your Python prototype continues to 
work without problems, while those attempting to rewrite it in Perl 
waste a lot of time and never get it quite working...  and even if they
do, just print out a couple of pages from both and show them to the 
"powers that be" and that ought to do the trick.

Unless they are wholly uninterested in readability and maintainability. :-(

-Peter



From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Mon Sep 15 16:45:50 2003
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:45:50 -0000
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com> <87znh89ufv.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnbm8l54.o3i.grey@dmiyu.org> <878yoqoudj.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbmc97u.vpg.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2003-09-15, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:
>>     I run several GTK apps that don't touch Gnome:
>> Sylpheed-Claws
>> Pan
>> XChat
 
>>     GTK != GNOME.  
> [...]

> Yep: that's exactly what I don't understand!  *Why* did you do that?

    What, run GTK apps that don't touch Gnome?  Simple reason: Gnome
sucks.  I run KDE.  I wouldn't want to load the full gamut of gnome libs
but the GTK libs are ok.  

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------



From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 22 18:29:19 2003
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 15:29:19 -0700
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0309221429.589e4a9a@posting.google.com>

Shu-Hsien Sheu <sheu at bu.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list at python.org>...
> For example, which one of the following would be more efficient, or , 
> moreover, more pythonic?
> 
> if aa[:3] == 'abc':
> 
> vs
> 
> if aa.startswith('abc'):

Python is about maintainability, and the latter is significantly more
maintainable than the former; if the string you're checking against
changes in size, using .startswith doesn't require you to change your
sourcecode anywhere else.

Jeremy



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Sep 29 19:28:08 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:28:08 GMT
Subject: error explanation
References: <13df83a2.0309291345.32db8a2b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ce3eb.1758$603.1657@news2.central.cox.net>

"Mac Wood" <malcolm.wood3 at ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:13df83a2.0309291345.32db8a2b at posting.google.com...
> Could someone please explain this error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python23\time.py", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     time.py
> NameError: name 'time' is not defined
>
> I tried entering the following example:
>
> time.py
> #This programs calculates rate and distance problems
> print "Input a rate and a distance"
> rate = input("Rate:")
> distance = input("Distance:")
> print "Time:",distance/rate
>
> which according to the tutor should have run as this:
>
> > python times.py
> Input a rate and a distance
> Rate:5
> Distance:10
> Time: 2
> Thanks for your help

Try using raw_input() rather than input()

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep 29 10:10:26 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:10:26 GMT
Subject: FTP access to starship.python.net?
References: <d7fcf8b4.0309271341.72304331@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3fzif1yi8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg) writes:

> Who should I contact about accessing my account on Starship. I need to
> obtain a new password and access process.
> 
> I think i am having a memory lapse as it has been over a year sense I
> have had a need to access my files.

I think emailing <your username>-starship at python.net will lead to
enlightenment.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  > Touche! But this confirms you are composed of logic gates.
  Crud, I thought those were neurons in there.
                    -- Thomas F. Burdick, Kenny Tilton, comp.lang.lisp



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Sep 16 18:41:53 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:41:53 +0200
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
References: <mailman.1063743924.1995.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bk83rt$2o3$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Rob Hunter <rhunter007 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>wrong).  What you're describing is "dynamic
>scoping".  That's where the body of a function
>(or code block in this case) isn't evaluated
>until it is used.  And thus, free variables in
>the body assume whatever values their calling
>environment has.  Dynamic scoping is a bad thing.
> So bad, in fact, that lisp added (at least the
>option of, I think) static scoping, Scheme
>exclusively uses static scoping, and that Python
>corrected their mistake (it used to be
>dynamically scoped).

What's wrong with dynamic scoping? Anyway, Python hasn't corrected
this "mistake", see following code (I vaguely remember *something*
about this was fixed, and while I don't know exactly what it was, I'm
reasonably sure it wasn't what you write about above, since that still
functions the way you think is bad)

import sys

def test():
    L =[]
    for i in range(10):
        f = lambda : sys.stdout.write("%s" %i)
        g = lambda i=i : sys.stdout.write("%s" %i)
        L.append((f,g))
    for x,y in L:
        x()
        y()
    print

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

# output : 90919293949596979899

>But anyway, from my tests, and from what I've
>read, Python has static scoping, but what
>assignment allows you to do is violate, in a way,
>this static scoping, which is what we see here.

Probably assignment *enables* static scoping if following this line of
reasoning, since if there's no statement "global i" in a function,
assigning "i" results in binding a local name "i".

Binding "i" in the test function name space to "i" in the name space
of the lambda function gives the behavior you want. If no binding in
the lambda name space is made, the "i" in the enclosing name space is
used, which is bound to the value "9" by the time function x is
called.

Anton




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Sep 10 18:07:07 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 22:07:07 GMT
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F82A5.7DB9A717@alcyone.com> <3F5F9A02.D1A5ACAA@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <bjo7ab$e0f$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:39:14 -0700, achrist at easystreet.com wrote:

>Erik Max Francis wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Yep:
>> 
>>         generator.next()
>> 
>
>This style supports only output-driven processes.  The generator,
>being on the input side, is always the server, and the output
>side is always the client.  It doesn't fit the situation where the
>input is heterogeneous and input has to get spewed in several
>directions, depending on its content.
>
>
Could you make some fantasy-code to illustrate what you mean?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep  9 11:47:36 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:47:36 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410@reader1.news.jippii.net> <vlpeq9jko1l6b0@news.supernews.com> <7T47b.4753$ZB4.113@reader1.news.jippii.net> <vlpr14kfehrn46@news.supernews.com> <rKadnXfgmJJdosCiXTWJiQ@comcast.com> <vlrfohfp908qd7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <r96cnUpbeYOEa8CiXTWJjA@comcast.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:vlrfohfp908qd7 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
> news:rKadnXfgmJJdosCiXTWJiQ at comcast.com...
> > #define max(a,b) ... in C).  And one has to adjust to and feel
> > comfortable enough with the view that multiparam functions are a
> > composition of single param functions.
>
> I'm not sure how central currying is to the type inference
> mechanism.

Completely central in that the type of functions *is* a curried type
(in the *MLs I have looked at).  For instance, the type of a binary
int function is displayed something like:

func(int)==>func(int)==>int

with ==> associative right to left.  The type of f(i,j)=>int is 'a
function (of i) returning [a function (of j) returning an int]'.  As I
said, takes some adjustment for most.  But occasional mental exercise
like this is probably good for the brain.

Terry J. Reedy





From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep  1 17:39:34 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:39:34 +0200
Subject: Structured writing to console, such as a table
References: <mailman.1062445143.10872.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj0el5$2h6$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:

> Before I reinvent this wheel... please give me some tips, references, 
> examples...

I wrote the following some months ago, but never really finished it, so it's
not the kind of code you would want to publish on glossy paper. Anyway,
hoping that nobody is watching, I quote it below :-)
I've added two contrived examples only now to give you an idea how to use
it.

Peter

<code>

class StringCol(object):
    def __init__(self, caption, extract, format=str):
        self.caption = caption
        if callable(extract):
            self.extract = extract
        elif type(extract) == type(""):
            self.extract = lambda row: getattr(row, extract)
        else:
            assert type(extract) == type(1), "extract must be callable,
attribute name or column index"
            self.extract = lambda row: row[extract]
        self.format = format
    def init(self):
        self.width = len(self.caption)
    def add(self, row):
        s = self.format(self.extract(row))
        self.width = max(self.width, len(s))
    def formatValue(self, row):
        return self.format(self.extract(row)).ljust(self.width)
    def formatCaption(self):
        return self.caption.ljust(self.width)
    def formatTotal(self):
        return " ".ljust(self.width)
    def formatDash(self, char="-"):
        assert len(char) == 1, "only one char, please"
        return char * self.width
    def done(self):
        pass

class NumCol(StringCol):
    SUM = 1
    ACCUMULATE = 2
    def __init__(self, caption, extract, format=str, action=None):
        StringCol.__init__(self, caption, extract, format)
        self.action = action
        #print ">>>>>>>>>>>>", self.action
    def init(self):
        StringCol.init(self)
        self.total = 0
        self.value = 0
    def add(self, row):
        self.total += self.extract(row)
    def formatValue(self, row):
        if self.action == NumCol.ACCUMULATE:
            #print "hi"
            self.total += self.extract(row)
            value = self.total
        else:
            value = self.extract(row)
        return self.format(value).rjust(self.width)

    def formatCaption(self):
        return self.caption.rjust(self.width)
    def formatTotal(self):
        return self.format(self.total).rjust(self.width)
    def done(self):
        self.width = max(self.width, len(self.format(self.total)))
        if self.action == NumCol.ACCUMULATE:
            self.total = 0

def printTable(columnDefs, rows, seps=("| ", " | ", " |"), dest=None):
#def printTable(columnDefs, rows, seps=("", "   ", ""), dest=None):
    if type(seps) == type((None,)):
        #from otten.generic.struct import Struct
        class Struct:
            def __init__(self, **kwd):
                self.__dict__.update(kwd)
        seps = Struct(left=seps[0], mid=seps[1], right=seps[2])
    if dest is None:
        import sys
        dest = sys.stdout

    # dry-run to determine column widths
    for col in columnDefs:
        col.init()
    for row in rows:
        for col in columnDefs:
            col.add(row)
    for col in columnDefs:
        col.done()
    # end dry-run

    def formatValue(col):
        return col.formatValue(row)
    def formatTotal(col):
        return col.formatTotal()
    def formatCaption(col):
        return col.formatCaption()
    def formatDash(col):
        return col.formatDash()
    def printRow(fmt, seps=seps):
        dest.write(seps.left)
        continued = False
        for col in columnDefs:
            if continued:
                dest.write(seps.mid)
            else:
                continued = True
            dest.write(fmt(col))
        dest.write(seps.right)
        dest.write("\n")
    dashSeps = Struct(left="-" * len(seps.left), mid="-" * len(seps.mid),
right="-" * len(seps.right))
    printRow(formatCaption)
    printRow(formatDash, dashSeps)
    for row in rows:
        printRow(formatValue)
    printRow(formatDash, dashSeps)
    printRow(formatTotal)
    printRow(formatDash, dashSeps)
    #print "=" * width



if __name__ == "__main__":
    # list of rows
    table = [
        ["a", 1, 2, 3],
        ["bbbbb", 1000000, 2222222, 33],
    ]
    printTable(
        [StringCol("First", 0),
         NumCol("Second", 1),
         NumCol("Forth", 3)],
        table)

    # list of objects
    class Test:
        def __init__(self, n, a):
            self.name = n
            self.age = a

    table2 = [ Test("peter", 20), Test("john", 111), Test("sue", 30) ]
    print
    printTable(
        [StringCol("Name", "name"),
         NumCol("Age**2", lambda row: row.age*row.age, action=NumCol.SUM),
         NumCol("SigmaAge", "age", action=NumCol.ACCUMULATE),
         NumCol("Age", "age")
        ],
        table2)

</code>






From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep 26 10:05:09 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:05:09 -0400
Subject: Where to import modules?
References: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> <3F74375A.F9D4B0EB@engcorp.com> <bl1f7t$oig$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <vn8hsuqh0kl670@news.supernews.com>

"JCM" <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote in message
news:bl1f7t$oig$1 at fred.mathworks.com...
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> > Basically doing this is an optimization, and you shouldn't be optimizing
> > before the program is working, and you shouldn't be optimizing without
> > a real need for it.  (That is, just because it's a little faster doesn't
> > mean it's worth doing.)
>
> Aside from being an optimization, it's also good for documentation.
> If you see an import at the top of a file it might not be immediately
> clear how or why the module is being used.  It's similar reasoning to
> why you might define variables in the narrowest scope posible.

There are also reasons having to do with circular imports that
you might not want to import at the top. However, this situation
is hazardous enough that some effort in removing the circularity
is usually warranted.

In general, I agree with the style guide: put them at the top
of the module unless there is a real, strong reason to put
them somewhere else. Even then, I'd put a comment in
with the main imports pointing out where the embedded
import exists.

John Roth





From jordan at krushen.com  Thu Sep 11 22:16:46 2003
From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:16:46 GMT
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
References: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com> <2E78b.1002$8g2.829@news1.central.cox.net> <E5WcnXLOoPRMiPyiXTWJiQ@comcast.com> <VV88b.1024$8g2.587@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <oprvc7dcpg5ctagx@shawnews>

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:01:41 GMT, Dave Benjamin <dave at 3dex.com> wrote:

> I will note, however, that Flash's XML parser is slow, and WDDX is more
> compact than XML-RPC (although it isn't, in itself, an RPC protocol, 
> unlike XML-RPC).

God, is it ever slow.  I'm working on a remote playlist editor (Flash 
talking to Python XML-RPC), and when sending a list of ~1000 entities 
across the wire, performance was increased nearly a hundred times simply 
by sending one delimited string element instead of 1000 XML elements.  Of 
course, XML adds quite a bit of bloat, but all the time was consumed in 
CPU, not on the wire.

On that note, I've been working on a rewrite of Pedro's ActionScript 
XML-RPC library, doing automatic marshalling/unmarshalling, shortening 
calls to the following:

rpc = new rpc('http://host/path/')
rpc.send(callbackFunc, 'method', arg1, arg2, arg3...)

instead of the rather verbose and repetitive arg/result formatting which I 
found in the original library.

Contact me if you'd like to test it out -- I haven't performed any 
regression testing on it yet, but I'm happily using it to pass arrays, 
ints, dicts, and strings back and forth.

J.



From bmiras at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 23 12:00:05 2003
From: bmiras at yahoo.com (bmiras at yahoo.com)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:00:05 -0700
Subject: problem using urllib2: \n
Message-ID: <7cb14f9.0309230800.8d3a28b@posting.google.com>

I've got a problem using urllib2 to get a web page.
I'm going through a proxy using user/password authentification
and i'm trying to get a page asking for a HTTP authentification.
And I'm using python 2.3

Here is an exemple of the piece of code I use:

import urllib2
#Proxy handler
proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" :
"http://proxyuser:proxypassword at myproxy:8050"})

#Site auth handler

site_auth_handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler();
site_auth_handler.add_password( "This Realm", "www.mysite.com",
"siteuser", "sitepassword" );


opener = urllib2.build_opener( site_auth_handler,
urllib2.HTTPRedirectHandler, urllib2.HTTPHandler , proxy_handler)
urllib2.install_opener(opener)


req = urllib2.Request('http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage')
page = urllib2.urlopen(req)

I got a 401 error.

Analyzing the request using 'strace' I can see the following request
sent to the proxy:

GET http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage HTTP/1.0\r\nHost:
www.mysite.com\r\nUser-agent:
Python-urllib/2.0a1\r\nProxy-authorization: Basic
bWlyYXNiOm1pcjAz\n\r\nAuthorization: Basic
bWlyYXM6bWlyYXMwMDE=\n\r\n\r\n

As you can see there is additionnal \n sent to the server just after
the Proxy-authorization and the Authorization fields. I think that in
this case the web server get only this part:
GET http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage HTTP/1.0\r\nHost:
www.mysite.com\r\nUser-agent:
Python-urllib/2.0a1\r\nProxy-authorization: Basic
bWlyYXNiOm1pcjAz\n\r\n

and so send me back an error 401, since I'm not authenticated for the
site.

I had a look in the urllib2.py . I think that base64.encodestring add
an \n at the end of the string. It's the case in the method
'proxy_open':

    def proxy_open(self, req, proxy, type):
        orig_type = req.get_type()
        type, r_type = splittype(proxy)
        host, XXX = splithost(r_type)
        if '@' in host:
            user_pass, host = host.split('@', 1)
            if ':' in user_pass:
                user, password = user_pass.split(':', 1)
                user_pass = base64.encodestring('%s:%s' %
(unquote(user),
                                                          
unquote(password)))
                req.add_header('Proxy-authorization', 'Basic ' +
user_pass)
        host = unquote(host)
        req.set_proxy(host, type)
   ...

I think it should be:

user_pass = base64.encodestring('%s:%s' % (unquote(user),
                                           unquote(password))).split()

have you any other clue?
thank you!

Bastien



From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Fri Sep  5 05:09:36 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 02:09:36 -0700
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0309050109.7b63dee@posting.google.com>

> for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
> string while I want it
> to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?

Good news: keys don't have to be strings. So this is perfectly valid code:
d={}
d[((1,2), (3,4))] = 'whatever'



From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 09:03:16 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:03:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Writing solid code book
In-Reply-To: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030903130316.79440.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com>

It does use C for its examples, but I think many of the
principles would still apply to Python.

Some, like "crashing early" happen as a side-effect of 
using Python.  Python's exceptions accomplish this nicely.
Crashing in the face of absurd circumstances rather than
trying to recover or ignore them.  I wish Perl had this, 
I once had a Perl script eat a few hundred files I was 
trying to have it rewrite.  A server had run out of disk 
space, and since I didn't say "close FILE or die", the 
close silently failed to write the file... 
a few hundred times.

The author *is* an ex-MS guy.  There are commments in the 
book to the effect that the practices therein represent the
ideal at Microsoft, not the reality.

Good book.


--- post400 <post400 at prontomail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> there is another famous book 'Writing solid code' but does it apply to
> Python ? Or it's usable only by Microsoft C programmers ? The author
> seems to be an ex-Microsoft guy !
> 
> Thanks ,
> post400
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From graham__fawcett at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  9 12:58:34 2003
From: graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 09:58:34 -0700
Subject: os.listdir
References: <2ce42702.0309081441.5c73a772@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063064892.16615.python-list@python.org> <bjk10v$ue0$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <e9570f37.0309090858.17b8e271@posting.google.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in message news:<bjk10v$ue0$04$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> "Graham Fawcett" <fawcett at teksavvy.com>
> > Hari wrote:
>  
> > >What I wanted to know was, is it guaranteed that between 2 calls
> > >os.listdir any files added to the directory are appended and the
> > >earlier order is maintained?
> 
> As others pinted out, this is jighly improbably, espacially under windows
> 
> 
> > There's no need for such sequence guarantees, though. It's probably not
> > the most efficient but here's a way to do it:
> >
> >     import os
> >     import time
> >
> >     somedir = '/tmp'
> >     snapshot1 = os.listdir(somedir)
> >     time.sleep(...)
> >     snapshot2 = os.listdir(somedir)
> >
> >     newfiles = [f for f in snapshot2 if not f in snapshot1]
> >
> > Pretty efficient, really: that's an O(n) comparison if I remember my
> > Python internals correctly. Which I don't, so don't trust my word for
> > it. ;-)
> 
> 
> You are wright to mistrust it ;-)
> Though 'f in list' looks harmless it itself is o(n) because there seems to
> be a linear search (This is different whith 'f in dict' of course). So your
> list comprehension is of o(n*n).
> 
> Kindly
> Michael P

D'oh! Thanks, Michael, I *knew* I'd messed that up... 

I'll repeat "list searches linear, dict lookups constant..." a hundred
times before bed tonight.

-- Graham



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Tue Sep 23 15:43:34 2003
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:43:34 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-CA53C5.12265623092003@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <mailman.1064341934.21653.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-CA53C5.12265623092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <Gn1cb.2779$gi2.756@fed1read01>

David Eppstein wrote:

> In article <mailman.1064341934.21653.python-list at python.org>,
>  Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Stephen Horne writes:
>>
>>>True, it is mostly just an alternative notation for range or xrange.
>>>But the integer for loops thing is something that never seems to go
>>>away. PEP284 itself quotes four previous PEPs on broadly the same
>>>issue.
>>
>>I am of the opinion that the introduction of enumerate() (in 2.3) will
>>go a long ways toward reducing the desire for better integer loop
>>syntax. I'm sure it will never go away completely, but if the demand
>>seems to die down after a year or so, then I'd guess it was due to
>>enumerate().
> 
> 
> It will certainly reduce the typical range(len(L)) verbosity.  It 
> doesn't do anything to help the readability of expressions like 
> range(dim-2,-1,-1) (example from some code I wrote a couple weeks ago).

Dealing with reversed ranges is one area that range bugs me. However, in 
2.3 you can replace ``range(n-1,-1,-1)`` with ``range(n)[::-1]``, which 
while still verbose is a lot easier for me to interpret. [Now if I could 
just convinve Armin Rigo to special case that in Psyco so that it was as 
fast as the original...]

I know someone's going to suggest that, since I'm already using slices, 
I should be in favor of int[a:b:c] or similar. But, that doesn't work 
any better than range with reversed ranges since you still have to use 
two slices to make things clear. That is, to get the equivalent of 
``range(n-1,-1,-1)`` one would need to use ``int[n-1:-1:-1]``, which is 
no clearer, or ``int[:n][::-1]`` which doesn't seem like a particular 
win over ``range(n)[::-1]``, which you can do now.


> Actually, looking at that code, the range is not the least readable part 
> of it:

[Snip dictionary comprehension stuff]

-tim




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 11:13:08 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:13:08 +0100
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MxxyLIAEeFd$Ew$y@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f at posting.google.com>, Stephen
Ferg <steve at ferg.org> writes
>I have a question that is not directly Python-related.  But I thought
>I'd ask the most erudite group that I know... :-)
>
>When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
>character?
>
>At one time, it was accepted as a truism that Windows (like MS-DOS)
>was different from Unix because Windows used the backslash as the path
>separator character, whereas Unix used the forward slash.
>
>But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this
>is a myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward
>or the backward slash as a pathname separator.
>
>I hypothesize that originally Windows accepted only the backslash, and
>then at some time it changed to accept the forward slash as well. 
>Does anyone know when that change occurred?  Was it with the
>introduction of support for long filenames in NT and Win95?

I seem to remember getting an early C compiler from M$ around 1983/5 and
being pleasantly surprised that '/' was acceptable. So far as I know
this has been true from the earliest days. I suspect it was because of
all the unix C code that people wanted to work without effort.
-- 
Robin Becker



From essai1 at mci.local  Mon Sep 15 03:13:58 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:13:58 +0200
Subject: pyc2py
References: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <bk3p54$8ed$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Pirate ?






From alessandro at sephiroth.it  Mon Sep 22 11:07:40 2003
From: alessandro at sephiroth.it (Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth*)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:07:40 GMT
Subject: py2exe: dynamic module does not define init function
References: <81zbb.99124$hE5.3508075@news1.tin.it> <FoCbb.100492$hE5.3545186@news1.tin.it> <qaDbb.101005$hE5.3554558@news1.tin.it> <SZDbb.140624$R32.4432440@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <0fEbb.101429$hE5.3567510@news1.tin.it>

> If audiere.dll is in the right directory, and it has the
> initaudiere function in it, your behaviour is rather mysterious.
> Perhaps you have some other file of the same name on your
> machine and import is picking up THAT file instead (under
> py2exe only) -- just guessing, of course.

audiere.dll and .pyd are in my DLL python folder (as suggested in the info page of the project), but they also are in the dist
folder..
I checked for duplicates but they didn't exist.. I also check the files copied (.dll and .pyd), are ok.
I also used the force-import argument in the setup.bat file, but nothing changed :(

The .exe file will not be for distribution, just for me.. so i can use always the .pyw file.. no problem, but maybe in the future i
will find the same situation

-- 

Alessandro Crugnola [sephiroth]
Flash | PHP Developer
http://www.sephiroth.it

Team Macromedia Volunteer for Flash
http://www.macromedia.com/go/team

Flash-php mailing list
http://www.flash-php.it/index.php?ml=fpcoders&action=subscribe





From prabua at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 30 10:53:07 2003
From: prabua at hotmail.com (Prabu)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 07:53:07 -0700
Subject: can i implement virtual functions in python ?
Message-ID: <e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm new to python, so excuse me if i'm asking something dumb. 
Does python provide a mechanism to implement virtual functions?
Can you please give a code snippet also...:)
Thanx in advance
-Prabu.



From jim-usenet at jimdabell.com  Wed Sep  3 11:11:23 2003
From: jim-usenet at jimdabell.com (Jim Dabell)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:11:23 +0100
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <-aOdndsss-PdmMuiRVn-vg@giganews.com>

ulysses wrote:

> I use wxPython make a bittorrent client. I find wxPython very slow and
> use many many memory.
> When app start, it need 19MB memory. I only use common GUI components.
> Python is a really good programming language. But how to do a small,smart,
> efficency GUI in win32,it's a big question.

In my opinion, the Qt toolkit is far better in terms of quality and speed
than wx/tk/whatever.  It's also dead simple to code for.  The Python
bindings are here: <URL:http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/>.

Check out the license first, some people don't like any of the choices
available.


-- 
Jim Dabell




From max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it  Mon Sep 29 07:27:06 2003
From: max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it (Max Ischenko)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:27:06 +0200
Subject: data encoding for Python COM interface
Message-ID: <bl94sp$ctm$1@hyppo.gu.net>


I've wrote a COM Server (in python) to be used from .ASP pages (in VB).
All work fine except data encoding. I need to pass Latin1 characters 
(with Umlauts) through the COM interface.

If i simply pass my unicode data as is through the COM interface I got 
no errors but Umlauts simply disappears on the web pages (ae becomes a).

If I do encode my data in 'iso8859-1' in COM Server
I got this error while evaluating .ASP page:
Python COM Server Internal Error (0x80004005)
Unexpected Python Error: exceptions.UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec 
can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 16: ordinal not in range(128)
somepage.asp, line 33.
Note, however that test python COM client able to read and save data in 
utf-8 encoding and it is displayed correctly (via NotePad).

Error ... 'ascii' codec ... makes me suspect that I could (or should) 
somehow specify the correct codec for my COM interfaces.

tia.




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Sep  7 19:29:36 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 23:29:36 GMT
Subject: Is there a unicode EOF mark like DOS ascii ctl-z or unix crl-d ?
Message-ID: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122>

I couldn't find one. (Hi Martin ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Fri Sep  5 22:58:30 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 22:58:30 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <m3fzja8vxl.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> writes:

> As I have not come across anything spectacular recently (except
> Python in a Nutshell), I would like to know what *you* consider to
> be the best book you have read in the last few years, about Python
> or IT in general.

The Python Cookbook is the best technical book I've read in a long
time. Python in a Nutshell is excellent, but lacks a certain narrative
flow which the Cookbook does posses. I think the Cookbook also has
better character development. The Cookbook really opened my eyes not
just to some of Python's abilities, but also to some programming
paradigms that I just hadn't gotten around to assimilating.

I just read Matt Ruff's new book _Set_This_House_In_Order_ and was
blown away. Brilliant, though not technical.

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sun Sep  7 00:23:08 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:23:08 -0700
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
Message-ID: <vllcldj3012u3d@corp.supernews.com>

Thanks *very* much for pointing that out. This proposed redesign has some of
the worst typography I've seen in a long time--it's just totally
unacceptable. I left detailed comments on the site mentioned below, and I
guess I should make some noise on the appropriate mailing lists too.

I just hope it's not too late to head off this train wreck of a redesign.
<sigh>

-Mike

rt lange wrote:
> came across this page searching feedster.
> dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
> but the mockups look very nice.
>
> http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1
>
> main page mockup:
> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main.html
>
> interior page:
> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior.html





From essai1 at mci.local  Mon Sep 29 18:18:29 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:18:29 +0200
Subject: PEP-0263 and default encoding
References: <3f782aef-bdbbd6f1-a72a-4a6c-8b23-c4915b89a61f@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <blaau5$b0r$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Yes !  Why ?

    And, me (french), i add  :
            # -*- coding: cp1252 -*-
    at begin of my scripts. But... and if i want do a script for two, three,
etc. languages ?

or

    How have  Ascii  AND  non-ascii  caracters in scripts ?


* sorry for my bad english *


@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau







From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Tue Sep 30 16:44:17 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:44:17 -0400
Subject: Numeric C extension: bug or error ?
References: <veronique.grosse-3009032128040001@mix-grenoble-104-3-14.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <qnku16u3t26.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, veronique.grosse at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Grosse) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't understand this strange behaviour:
>
> I compile this code :
[code clipped; it looks good]
...
>    /* registration table  */
>    static struct PyMethodDef testMethods[] = {
>       {"return_vector", return_vector, 1},       /* method name, C
>                                                     funcptr, always-tuple */
>       {NULL, NULL}                   /* end of table marker */
>    };

Instead of the magic constant "1", use METH_VARARGS.

...
> Very simple: this module takes a Numeric array (vector) as argument and
> send this array back to python...
>
> If I compile it under macOSX, the result in python is:
>
>>>> import test
>>>> from Numeric import *
>>>> v=array([1.0,2.0,3.0,4.0],Float)
>>>> v
> array([ 1.,  2.,  3.,  4.])
>>>> test.return_vector(v)
> array([ 1.,  2.,  3.,  4.])
>
> but in linux the result is:
>
>>>> import test
>>>> from Numeric import *
>>>> v=array([1.0,2.0,3.0,4.0],Float)
>>>> v
> array([ 1.,  2.,  3.,  4.])
>>>> test.return_vector(v)
> array([ 1.+0.j,  2.+0.j,  3.+0.j,  4.+0.j])

This isn't what I get; I get the same result under linux as you get
from Mac OS X. Have you checked that the copies of the code are the
same?

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  1 10:28:41 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:28:41 +0200
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <vl6i5a2fjdrd2c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
	<Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162>
	<vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com>
	<Xns93E99702FBABCgodlarz@62.243.74.162>
	<vl6i5a2fjdrd2c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F535799.4050506@ghaering.de>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> [...] Pythoneers [...] have a vehicle for sharing code examples,
> commentary, and related matters:  the Wiki (complementing, 
> incidentally, the Cookbook).

Well, these are already two places, not one :) My observation is that in 
Pythonia, there is quite a diversity in places where code snippets and 
tips are collected. In addition to the two big sources you mentioned, 
there's also the Python FAQ, for example.

As far as Wikis are concerned, I'd like to humbly suggest that people 
really use the Wiki at python.org, instead of putting content that 
concerns Python itself into their own wikis. Yes, I also mean you, 
Twisted guys! :-P

Decentralisation may have its places, but not for documentation and 
knowledge bases, IMO. That is, if you want to improve on Google being 
your documentation index ;)

-- Gerhard




From sheu at bu.edu  Tue Sep 23 11:10:49 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:10:49 -0400
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
In-Reply-To: <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu>
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com> <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <3F706279.9000203@bu.edu>

Hi,

In my understanding, using try/except rather than if/else is more 
pythonic. However, sometimes it is difficult to use the later.
For example, I want to search for a sub string in a list composed of 
strings. It is considered "possitive" if there is a match, no matter how 
many.

my_test = ['something', 'others', 'still others']

case 1: try/except

hit = 0
for i in my_test:
    try:
       i.index('some')
       hit = 1
    except ValueError:
       pass



case 2: if/else

hit = 0
for i in my_test:
    if 'some' in i:
       hit = 1


It seems to me that in a simple searching/matching, using if might be 
better and the code is smaller. Try/except would have its strengh on 
catching multiple errorrs. However, problems occur if the criteria is 
composed of "or" rather than "and". For instance:

if (a in b) or (c in b):
    *do something

try:
    b.index(a)
    b.index(c)
    *do something
except ValueError:
   pass

The above two are very  different.

Am I right here?

-shuhsien





From shane at zope.com  Thu Sep 11 18:50:51 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:50:51 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <m3smn3t5xx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <3F60B545.6030100@sci.fi> <mailman.1063306316.30786.python-list@python.org> <m3smn3t5xx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F60FC4B.2070401@zope.com>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>I wonder whether others would consider such a thing valuable, or even
>>feasible. :-)
> 
> 
> I consider it valuable, but not feasible. Contrary to your analysis, I
> believe the biggest problem with shared memory is pointer/address
> management. E.g. if you have a shared list L, and do
> 
> L.append(1)
> 
> then a reference to the object 1 is put into L[0]. However, the
> pointer is only valid in the process writing the reference, not in
> other processes. Fixing that is nearly impossible, except *perhaps* by
> reimplementing Python from ground up.

There are two ways to solve that:

- Copy the "1" object into shared memory before passing it to 
L.append().  This would be nice and transparent, but also a little DWIM.

- Create special object types just for shared memory.

As it turns out, POSH (see Jeremy's link) takes the second strategy, 
apparently quite successfully!  Anyone who has concerns about the GIL 
should take a long, hard look at POSH.  It just might solve the problem 
for lots of people.

Shane





From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Wed Sep 17 15:32:13 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:32:13 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624C8F@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Harri Pesonen [mailto:fuerte at sci.fi]
>
> Jeff Epler wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 08:22:41PM +0300, Harri Pesonen wrote:
> > >
> > > It is more efficient to have one process and several threads, than
> > > several processes each having one thread.
> >   
> >
> > If it's easier to code "several processes each having one thread",
then
> > I'll sure do it.  I've accepted a 2x-100x speed hit by using Python,
so
> > if it's a 25% difference in efficiency, I won't sign up to wait for
code
> > that doesn't exist yet.
> 
> But wouldn't it be better if Python had real multitasking? Comments
like the
> above mean that you accept Python as it is, fine. But usually people
want to
> make things better when they see that something can be improved. If my
roof is
> leaking, I have two choices: fix it or accept it. If I am able to fix
it, then
> I'll probably do it.
[...]

No, comments like the above realizes that there are certain tradeoffs.
Reference
counting as a primary garbage collection mechanism is fundamentally
incompatible 
with multithreading in an object oriented language -- unless you have
mitigating 
factors like the GIL. The number of locking operations quickly overwhelm
actual 
computation. (I'm aware that you don't want shared data, however I
completely 
fail to see the utility..)

There is some research indicating that generational gc is more efficient
with 
regards to total program run time in heavily mt oo applications, so
that's 
certainly an interesting area to look into -- it would, however, require
a 
fundamentally different language implmentation (one which didn't have
the nice 
finalization guarantees CPython currently has).

When it comes to applicability, I'm assuming you're not heading in this 
direction to do heavy computational work in pure Python(?) If all you
want to do 
is watch your Python programs run maximally paralell, I would suggest
Jython as 
an alternative without a GIL...

-- bjorn




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_  Sat Sep 27 15:49:59 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:49:59 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
In-Reply-To: <v029nv4ohqofkcggbcrtehl9j1v3dgjid0@4ax.com>
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <3F745445.D9628351@engcorp.com> <zM_cb.75296$PD3.4794304@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <v029nv4ohqofkcggbcrtehl9j1v3dgjid0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LUldb.74647$ev5.1010409@wagner.videotron.net>

Stephen Horne wrote:
> Basically, when I need to break an expression over multiple lines, the
> odds are that it already has parentheses anyway. And I wouldn't indent
> that way anyway, I'd do it as...
> 
> a = (  firstitem
>      + seconditem
>      + (  thirditem
>         * fourthitem
>        )
>     )

But that's indentation anyway.  If the rule would be "all lines with a 
superior indentation are part of the previous line", would that work? 
This way it would not be necessary to add the parenthesis.  I wonder if 
I'm missing something...

Regards,

Nicolas




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 16 13:34:46 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:34:46 -0400
Subject: Duck Typing
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063720351.23661.python-list@python.org> <3gG9b.12137$3Y2.2543@news2.central.cox.net> <3F6732DB.F31A954E@engcorp.com> <DaH9b.12147$3Y2.9399@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3F6749B6.74601D54@engcorp.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3F6732DB.F31A954E at engcorp.com...
> > Steve Holden wrote:
> > >
> > > exquacktly [ducks and runs]
> >               ^^^^^
> >
> > Steve, did you even _know_ you did this?  You're sick!
> >
> > -Peter  :-)
> 
> Aah, I see, you think I'm stupid.

No, I just knew Irmen was asleep at his keyboard. ;-)

> Of course I knew - without the bracketed afterthought it would hardly have
> been worth posting.
> 
> I'll send you a bill ;-)

If you make it a twenty, would that be a "sawduck"?

-Peter



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 07:22:40 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:22:40 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com> <3F5F83B1.48763F85@alcyone.com> <cg5vlvgorsi88elsn9ur5ueavpg27d7ui3@4ax.com> <lpQ7b.1147$G1.6248@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <lcm0mvgommt3n01qdr755jnobvsslv3e75@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:45:38 -0700, "Carl Waldbieser"
<waldbie at attglobal.net> wrote:

>I think you could still run into a problem here with aliasing.  For example:
>
>    obj = Obj_Type ()
>    x = obj
>
>    obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
>    obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
>    obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()
>    container.Add (ref obj) #rebinds obj to None
>    #later...
>    x.alter() #alters containers copy anyway

Yes - that's what I meant by "this is by no means foolproof of course"
in my post with message ID jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2 at 4ax.com.

>This kind o problem exists in other languages like C++, too.  The containers
>in the C++ standard library copy elements to side-step these problems.  When
>copying becomes expensive, pointers to elements are used instead, but since
>you can have multiple pointers to the same object, you run the risk of
>clobbering data in the container if you are not careful.

Its not unusual to use a reference counting scheme to restore the
apparant copy semantics while avoiding unnecessary copying, but of
course you are correct.

>In practice, though, this type of behavior has rarely been a problem for me.

Yes - if I trim down your tail quoting somewhat...

>> So my 'most compelling example' isn't compelling at all. Damn.
>>
>> I've been thinking on this for some hours now and still not come up
>> with a more compelling example (or at least not one which can't be
>> better handled a different way) so I guess the idea is a dud.
>>
>> Bet you never expected me to admit that so easy ;-)




From creedy at mitretek.org  Fri Sep  5 10:56:00 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:56:00 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
In-Reply-To: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <3f58a45a$1_6@corp.newsgroups.com>

Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and 
> am trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across 
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would 
> like to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in 
> the last few years, about Python or IT in general.
> 
> -Patrick

This one's been out a few years, but I really enjoyed it when I got it 
as a Christman gift:

Why Buildings Falls Down by Matthys Levy and Mario Salvadori

It's an easy read and a good education in the kinds of "bugs" that 
infect building construction -- something that's always held up to 
software types as an example of a mature engineering discipline.

   Chris



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sun Sep 21 21:08:38 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:08:38 +1000
Subject: Twisted Matrix and Python Scripts
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0309211241.4fce86ff@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0309211241.4fce86ff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030922010838.GA2008@frobozz>

On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 01:41:04PM -0700, Fazer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am very interested in fooling around with Twisted Matrix's HTTP Web
> Server.  I was thinking if .rpy scripts would run much faster than
> traditional CGI scripts?

They'll generally be much faster, because there's no need to start a fresh
python process for every request.

It's worth noting, though, that .rpy scripts aren't meant to be Twisted
equivalent of CGI scripts; they should simply create and configure a
twisted.web.resource.Resource (or subclass thereof).  If your .rpy is more
than 10 lines, you're almost certainly using it the wrong way... see
http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/howto/web-development.

> After looking how asynchronous Twisted's framework really is, I have
> been interested in it.

By the way, you might find you have better luck with Twisted questions on
the Twisted mailing list, twisted-python at twistedmatrix.com.  Not all of the
Twisted people read comp.lang.python regularly.

-Andrew.





From pieter at countersnipe.com  Tue Sep  2 20:16:45 2003
From: pieter at countersnipe.com (Pieter Claassen)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 01:16:45 +0100
Subject: python short conditional?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.03.00.16.45.270773@countersnipe.com>

I am looking to find a short conditional for python equivalent
to the perl question mark operator 

statement? if true:else false

Any recommendations on this?

Pieter



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Sep 11 13:26:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 17:26:39 GMT
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bjqb8f$d9k$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:59:43 +0100, Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>
>I have in the past suggested that Python functions could use some kind
>of modifier token for parameters to indicate pass-by-reference, so
>that immutable items in particular could be modified (or more
>accurately replaced) by the function, with that modification affecting
>what the caller sees. In case I'm explaining this badly, here is how
>Python currently works...
>
>>>> def Inc(p) :
>...   p += 1
>...
>>>> x = 1
>>>> Inc(x)
>>>> x
>1
>
>... and here is (roughly) what I'd like to be able to do...
>
>>>> def Inc(ref p) :
>...   p += 1
>...
>>>> x = 1
>>>> Inc(x)
>>>> x
>2

ref p logically implies that Inc will receive somehow both the information
*behind* the name 'p' -- i.e., the caller's name for the value that the local
parameter name 'p' is temporarily bound to -- *and* the specific namespace of the caller.

The implication is that there is a name that should be unchanged, whatever it is, but
rebound in its namespace to an updated value. We can't mess with the actual value at
the other end of the binding, since that could be shared and/or immutable.

You could do this very explicitly, e.g., explicitly pass both name space and name string,
with an ordinary dict playing the namespace role:

 >>> ns = {'x':1}
 >>> ns['x']
 1
 >>> def incr(namespace, name):
 ...     namespace[name] += 1
 ...
 >>> incr(ns, 'x')
 >>> ns['x']
 2

or, using the __dict__ of an object instance

 >>> ns2 = type('',(),{})()
 >>> ns2.y = 10
 >>> incr(ns2.__dict__, 'y')
 >>> ns2.y
 11

obviously, we could write incr to accept an instance and a name and do
inst.__dict__[name]+=1 instead of nsdict[name]+=1, but the point is
we are somehow being explicit in specifying both namespace and
the name to be rebound. Implementing ref would imply automating
something similar hidden in the compiled code, IWT. But it gets
messy fast, I think. what if you write a =['foo',[23]]; Inc(a[1][0]) ?
Should that 23 be rebound to a 24? You can't always analyze the expression
statically, so you can't even presume that Inc will be the same global binding
by the time a[1] has been evaluated. So you'd have to look ahead to see if Inc
should be passed the address of the hidden pointer to 0 involved in the [0] or
the pointer to 0 itself. But then you'd have to figure out whether <whatever-a[1]-is>[0]
can be used that way. Should any mutable object that supports __getitem__ and __setitem__
be able to produce the target address for its __setitem__ for conditional passing
to a function like Inc? ISTM a ref thing would ripple pretty far into the binding
methodology of Python.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 09:29:33 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:29:33 -0400
Subject: Test message. Please ignore
References: <e431ae34.0309120216.7ca12eb5@posting.google.com> <3F61AAA0.62F58E97@engcorp.com> <tyf8yonlks9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <3F6861BD.71E8C638@engcorp.com>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> > Use misc.test,
> 
> Last time I tried that, I immediately got 12 spams, half of them
> claiming that they weren't spam, because I explicitly asked for them
> merely by posting to misc.test.
> 
> That's really great, especially if you're just trying out your fresh
> and unknown-to-spammers email account :-)

Anyone using a real email account with either misc.test or comp.lang.python
should expect to be instantly indundated with spam anyway.  A fellow
from work posted recently with a new-before-seen-on-Usenet email address
and saw a step-increase in his spam at work immediately afterwards.

Posting to misc.test doesn't seem likely to increase the amount of spam
one gets if one has or intends to post to a regular newsgroup.  If you're
really concerned, you can easily spoof your address when posting the test
as well...

And there are tools to deal fairly effectively with spam anyway, so
I personally pretty much ignore it.  (Only a couple of spam messages
a day slip through for me, and if I cared enough I could shut down the
accounts pretty quickly as they all come from real people.)

> > not a regular newsgroup, for tests please.
> 
> Are you sure he wasn't posting to the mailing list ?

Not at all, but it doesn't change the point.  Test posts are almost never
necessary to either a mailing list or a newsgroup, and when they are 
necessary an explanation in the message as to why it was required is always 
appropriate, and ought to be considered mandatory.

All told, there's really no excuse for posting tests to c.l.p or the 
mailing list without a good reason, and an included explanation, so I
plan to continue trying to educate the obvious newbies who don't follow
this advice.  My guess is that for every one who posts a test here,
there are five who see my reply and have never heard of misc.test before,
and it's worth it to help them avoid making the same mistake.

-Peter



From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 08:28:07 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 05:28:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions
In-Reply-To: <HnWdnRoKt7GUP8uiU-KYgg@kconline.com>
Message-ID: <20030904122807.97700.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Andy <Hoosbruin at Kconline.com> wrote:
> 
> Would like to try Python......
> 
>  Can you use Python to access SQLServer... if so do you have an example.

The win32all package includes an ODBC module.  I've used this extensively,
it works quite well.

It's here:
http://pywin32.sourceforge.net/


> 
>   What are the strengths and weaknesses of Python.?
> 
>    Is it like vbscript ?
> 
> 
>  Example code of things that it's good at.... to get me started

For code examples see the Python cookbook 
(though some examples are rather advanced):
http://pythoncookbook.activestate.com/

These success stories are also interesting:
http://www.pythonology.com/success

> 
>  Thanks...
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From amdescombes at qualicontrol.com  Wed Sep 17 06:29:10 2003
From: amdescombes at qualicontrol.com (Andre Michel Descombes)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:29:10 +0200
Subject: Free Data Quality Management with Python UK Seminar
Message-ID: <bk9d04$a52$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

Test&Go is a Python based tool, which makes developing Python DQM solutions
a cinch.

I am pleased to inform you that QualiControl (UK) Ltd are holding the first
of a number of FREE Seminars on the issues of Data Quality and Control on
1st October 2003 at the Royal Oriental Hotel in Luton, Bedfordshire (the
second will be 15th October).

The seminar will cover the problems encountered by companies with their data
quality as well as the knock on effects that these issues have across an
organisation and on to its partners or customers. The seminar will also
include a demonstration of Test&Go - one of Europe's leading software
solutions for controlling the quality and integrity of data in all
information processes, particularly focussing on Data Quality Management and
Python.

Test&Go has provided a great ROI within the Government and Financial
industries as well as for Software Testing, Data Cleansing and eCommerce
environments within a number of commercial organisations. Case studies will
also feature in the seminar on how companies have overcome their data
quality issues and the benefits gained.

If you would like more information on Test&Go or to register for this
seminar, please go to

http://www.qualicontrol.com/eng/seminar/seminar.php?logo=logo_info.jpg

Regards,

Andre M. Descombes

R&D Director

QualiControl (UK) Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)1582 513317
www.qualicontrol.com/eng/default.php







From simonb at webone.com.au  Sat Sep  6 19:51:36 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:51:36 +1000
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
References: <mailman.1062873250.31920.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309061534.5f8cf00f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.06.23.51.35.802469@webone.com.au>

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:34:21 -0700, Lothar Scholz wrote:

...
> 
> Because python is a dynamical typed non image language there is no
> tool that can do this and there never will be any (at least one that
> is not using heuristics or sampled data from previous runs).

hmmm... I think (some) static analysis may be possible. The main
thing to exclude is eval/exec but even then, yes you're right, some
programs would just have to be run to find out what they do.

I remember reading some interesting things here:
http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e.html

In particular:
"Cormac Flanagan and Matthias Felleisen. 
Componential Set-Based Analysis. 
ACM Transactions of Programming Languages and Systems"

Simon.







From enrica_dente at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  4 08:50:04 2003
From: enrica_dente at hotmail.com (enrica dente)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:50:04 +0000
Subject: Search and Replace in Zope
Message-ID: <Law14-F116oygXLsxpT000341aa@hotmail.com>

Dear All,

I emailed you sometime ago. I need your help again. This time I really need 
it. I haven't been able to find a solution that allows me to search for all 
the <a href=/welcome links in the original pages created by Zope. How do I 
convert these pages into a files system that I can search so that I can also 
search and replace HTML code?

Thanks for your help.

Enrica

_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 12:39:39 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:39:39 -0500
Subject: Anybody else having problem *sending* mail to this list?
In-Reply-To: <yuGcnUKAscCcQ8qiXTWJjA@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.1062713657.19120.python-list@python.org>
        <yuGcnUKAscCcQ8qiXTWJjA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <16216.48203.690034.549439@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Terry> Yes, a worldwide virus-induced mail blizzard.  

This has been my biggest gripe about the damn virus.  The virus itself was
no problem for me since I don't use Windows, but the thousands of "you have
a virus!" mails sent in response clogged my inbox until I trained SpamBayes
to view them as spam.  Is there any reasonable way to get the anti-virus
vendors to realize they are a very large part of the problem?  Shouldn't
virus scanners simply eat the virus and not send another mail?  Does anyone
have a list of a-v vendors' email addresses so I can harangue them a bit on
the topic?

Thx,

Skip




From sheu at bu.edu  Sat Sep 20 10:55:29 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:55:29 -0400
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
In-Reply-To: <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3F6C6A61.1010508@bu.edu>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 08:53:16 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 13:53:16 +0100
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <871xuyowxv.fsf@pobox.com>

post400 at prontomail.com (post400) writes:

> apparently there is a very famous book that every developer should
> read: Code complete by Steve McConnell !

It's an interesting book, I agree, certainly well worth a read.


> Is there an electronic version freely downloadable ? After all, the
> book was released in 1993 , it should have been public domain by now !

Clearly not, since you're contemplating buying it ;-)

It's not a narrowly-focused technical book, so it hasn't gone out of
date (even though it says almost nothing about object orientation --
in fact, that's part of what makes it interesting).


> It would be nice to have a try before ! 50? is not exactly cheap !
> What do you think ? Is it worth the money or not ?

Do you have access to a public library?  In North America and Western
Europe, they're quite likely to be able to lend you a copy (even if
it's not in your local library, they can borrow it from a larger
library).


John



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Sep 16 07:59:39 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:59:39 +0200
Subject: Duck Typing
In-Reply-To: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f66fb2c$0$58709$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

srijit at yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been seeing this term "duck typing" for quite sometime now. It
> will be nice if one of us can give an example in Python demonstrating
> duck typing and/or link to some Python references.

Is this helpful: http://www.razorvine.net/python/PythonLanguageConcepts
(paragraph 'dynamic typing')  ?

--Irmen de Jong





From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Sep 15 14:11:44 2003
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:11:44 -0700
Subject: strptime() backported to Jython 2.1
Message-ID: <3F6600E0.3000102@ocf.berkeley.edu>

I have received a few requests since the 'Python Cookbook' was published 
to edit my code for a strptime() function in pure Python to run on 
Jython 2.1 .  I have finally come about and made the necessary changes 
and put them online (thanks to Jon Franz for giving the final push).

The code can be found at the Python Cookbook web site at 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/56036 .  It is 
not the fastest or best version of the code (that will always be in the 
Python CVS MAIN tree), but it seems to work (I have not done extensive 
testingm but all the changes were minor).

I now consider this backport finished.  All future enhancements to 
strptime will continue to go into the Python CVS but will not be 
backported.  If you want the latest and greatest features then consider 
helping to move Jython forward to its next version or upgrading your 
version of CPython.

-Brett





From halley at play-bow.org  Fri Sep  5 17:02:12 2003
From: halley at play-bow.org (Bob Halley)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 14:02:12 -0700
Subject: file.close() freezes my script
In-Reply-To: <c498bc9a.0309050041.3cc0a254@posting.google.com>
References: <c498bc9a.0309050041.3cc0a254@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m37k4n0x0r.fsf@woof.play-bow.org>

schwerdy at web.de (schwerdy) writes:

> I created a script that handles SC and CSV files. To convert CSV (or
> in my case: pipe ('|') seperated values) to SC, I want to hunt my CSV
> lines through /usr/bin/psc. Therefore I did:
> 
> tofilter, fromfilter, error = os.popen3("psc -S -L -d '|'")
> map(tofilter.write,lines)
> tofilter.close()
> 
> For some CSV-files my script freezes at tofilter.close(). Removing
> some lines from the "lines" sequence (that represents the CSV-file)
> always helps. But imho "psc" is not the cause. Piping my CSV-file
> through psc in bash always works. Isn't it crazy? I tried python2.2
> and python2.3 from the debian distribution.
> 
> Anyone who has an explanation, workaround, hint or anything?

This sounds like a classic pipe deadlock.  My guess is that the child
process is blocked trying to write to its stdout, which you haven't
read.  The parent is blocking trying to finish all that writing.

The issue is described in the Python Library Reference, section 6.8.2,
"Flow Control Issues".

If you wrote psc's output to a file, used select(), or used different
threads (e.g. a writer thread and a reader thread), you could avoid
the deadlock.

/Bob




From p-abel at t-online.de  Fri Sep 19 05:37:11 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 02:37:11 -0700
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
I'm working under W2k with
Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32

I have a file *test_data.txt* with the following content:
0123456789
0123456789
abcdefghi
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ

and I work on it with the following python script:

# Open NOT in binary mode
fp=file('test_data.txt','r')
a='xx'
while a:
  print 'Filepointer: %3d' %  fp.tell()
  a=fp.readline()
fp.close()

print

# Open IN binary mode
fp=file('test_data.txt','r+b')
a='xx'
while a:
  print 'Filepointer: %3d' %  fp.tell()
  a=fp.readline()
fp.close()

Now, when test_data.txt is saved in PC-mode with 0xC, 0xA as newline
it works correct.
But when I save the file in UNIX-Mode with 0xA as newline,
my script gives me the following output, where that one with
the file not opened in binary mode is wrong:
Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:   7
Filepointer:  19
Filepointer:  30
Filepointer:  49
Filepointer:  51

Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:  11
Filepointer:  22
Filepointer:  32
Filepointer:  50
Filepointer:  51

When I try this under HP-UX it works fine in both cases.
So I wonder if the function *tell()* is not correctly implemented under win32.

Regards
Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 24 14:46:16 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:46:16 +0200
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <tth3nvcb9oprv23bincf80c74051227vgv@4ax.com> <vdlcb.287$kD3.194@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bksos0$jvi$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

>   * It behaves badly with infinite iterators as inputs

[...]

> def ireverse(obj):
>     assert not hasattr(obj, 'keys')
      
      # let inifinite iterators identify themselves     
      assert not hasattr(obj, 'infinite') 

>     try:
>         for i in xrange(len(obj)-1, -1, -1):
>             yield obj[i]
>     except (AttributeError, TypeError):
>         x = list(obj)   # XXX fails with infinite iterators
>         x.reverse()
>         for elem in x:
>             yield elem

As infinite iterators are rare, it would not be too cumbersome to let them
identify themselves as such.

Peter



From paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT  Thu Sep 18 17:30:39 2003
From: paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:30:39 +0100
Subject: Setting environment variables
In-Reply-To: <cscab.12804$g4.258706@news1.nokia.com>
References: <cscab.12804$g4.258706@news1.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <5tpab.110$WD5.5@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Sami Viitanen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Is there any other way to set variables than os.putenv().
> 
> Putenv doesn't actually put any values to actual system variables..
> 
> I'm trying to set CVSEDITOR variable automatically from script
> so that user wouldn't have to set that him/herself. CVS can't use variable
> set with putenv().

You could do the equivalent of:
  Paddy at maximillian ~ : echo $SHELL
/bin/bash
  Paddy at maximillian ~ : unset foo
  Paddy at maximillian ~ : eval `python -c 'print "foo=Hello;export foo"'`
  Paddy at maximillian ~ : echo $foo
Hello
  Paddy at maximillian ~ :

I use the following for setting up quite complex environments at work:
	http://modules.sourceforge.net/

Pad.




From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Wed Sep 24 02:56:21 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 23:56:21 -0700
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <vn1uus5a74ce3a@news.supernews.com> <w57cb.1289$RW4.1142@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0309232256.26f7fd1e@posting.google.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<w57cb.1289$RW4.1142 at newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> Sure.  Then it'll given an exception.  The implementation
> should turn around and raise the proper exception there
> instead of a "len doesn't exist" one.
> 
> There's also a problem that len works on a dict but
> __getitem__(int) will only work if the dict stores 0->n-1
> as keys.


How about using a temporary sequence if __riter__ isn't defined?
It's slow, but would work with all non-infinite iterators that
don't have strange side effects (vast majority).


def riter(obj):
    try:
        rit = getattr(obj, "__riter__")
    except AttributeError:
        # assuming list has __riter__, the following could be:
        # for x in riter(list(obj)):
        #     yield x
        seq = list(obj)
        n = len(seq)
        while n != 0:
            n -= 1
            yield seq[n]
    else:
        for term in rit():
            yield term

# reverse iteration of file
f = file('riter.py')
try:
    for line in riter(f):
        print line,
finally:
    f.close()

# reverse iteration of a dictionary
for x in riter({'foo':1, 'bar':2}):
    print x,


I changed it to use a shorter name as suggested by Reedy, to be similar
with rfind etc. I also prefer a function instead of a method, as the function
can provide (slow) default behaviour for iterators that don't explicitely
support reverse iteration.



From cliechti at gmx.net  Sat Sep  6 20:00:23 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 02:00:23 +0200
Subject: [Jargon] Python glossary - contribute your definitions
References: <16218.13681.159432.907101@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1062881711.16669.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93EF1469C4E3Ccliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1062881711.16669.python-list at python.org: 
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> ...
>>I'm still interested in getting this off the ground, though.  To make
>>it more likely that something significant gets done, I created a Wiki
>>to which people can add definitions:
>>
>>    http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary
> ...
> Seems like something that could be hashed out faster and more
> reasonably as a thread on comp.lang.python where people propose, then
> vote on words (and/or definitions) suitable for a glossary.  For
> example: 
[cut the nice examples]

if you entered those right away in the wiki it would have more entries by 
now ;-). Seriously, i think it makes more sense to write them in the wiki 
then discuss them here. One has not to look over dozzens of news threads to 
get the definitions but can look in one place, the wiki. that looks easier 
to me.

and there is a good example on how it works when many people submit their 
part and the rating is done after a while, based on that submissions. i'm 
talking of the great python cookbook that is now available as a printed 
book.

the use of a wiki may require a bit familiarization but then its realy a 
nice and efficent tool.

chris

[cut rules]

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 11:00:22 2003
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:00:22 +0100
Subject: Prime number module
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D014B29C3@intrepid>

> From:	Dag [SMTP:dag at velvet.net]
> Is there a python module that includes functions for working with prime 
> numbers?  I mainly need A function that returns the Nth prime number and 
> that returns how many prime numbers are less than N, but a prime number 
> tester would also be nice.  I'm dealing with numbers in the 10^6-10^8
> range  
> so it would have to fairly efficient
 
http://www.nmt.edu/~shipman/soft/clean/prime.html any good?

Cheers,
Simon Brunning,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
--LongSig





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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.




From holmboe at kth.se  Sat Sep  6 17:20:00 2003
From: holmboe at kth.se (Michael)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 14:20:00 -0700
Subject: Newbiequestion about lists and arrays....
Message-ID: <9193c0d1.0309061320.a0f430f@posting.google.com>

Hi pythonians! (or whatever you call yourselfs...)

I would like to use an multidimensional matrix (3D or more) with
numbers (int:s and float:s). Could i use lists or arrays? How can i
retrieve a single element out of a list thats already in an other list
thats already in an other list (and so on...)

An example...

c=[1]*3
for y in range(3):
        for x in range(3):
            
            c[x]=[1,2,3]
        p[y]=c

p[1][1][1]=888
print p[1][1][1]
print p



for this code example, how do i assign 888 to only one element (for
example, the element in the middle) in the matrix and not to the three
elements shown below?

>>> 
888
[[[1, 2, 3], [1, 888, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
 [[1, 2, 3], [1, 888, 3], [1, 2, 3]], 
 [[1, 2, 3], [1, 888, 3], [1, 2, 3]]]
>>> 

Why does:

p[0][1][1]=888

and

p[1][1][1]=888

print out the same result?

Helping bitteplease.

/Michael



From andrea at proceryon.at  Tue Sep  9 05:02:23 2003
From: andrea at proceryon.at (andrea)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 02:02:23 -0700
Subject: Problem with ButtonRelease-2 event in Text widgets
Message-ID: <4feefc55.0309090102.4ff7dad@posting.google.com>

I have a dialog with a Pmw.ScrolledText widget were a user can paste a
text with button-2.

After pasting i want to know how many characters are pasted. But when
the '<ButtonRelease-2>' event occurs the text is not pasted, this
happens afterward.
With '<KeyRelease>' events it works fine (eg 'Shift'+'Insert'). Why?

Is there a possibility to get the pasted text at this moment?


TIA!


###
sample code:
###

import Pmw

class CText:
	def show (self):
		dlg = Pmw.Dialog()
		
		self.textbox = Pmw.ScrolledText(dlg.interior())
		self.textbox.pack()
		self.textbox.component('text').bind('<KeyRelease>',
self.printLength)
		self.textbox.component('text').bind('<ButtonRelease-2>',
self.printLength)

		dlg.activate()

	def printLength (self, event):
		print len(self.textbox.get())


if( __name__ == '__main__' ):
	textObj = CText()
	textObj.show()



From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Mon Sep 15 09:00:38 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:00:38 -0500
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85E46E0E@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Take a look at www.reportlab.com !!

Reportlab provides everything for you for creating pdf documents.
Written in 100% python and it is for free (which is unbelievable)
Full set of documentation and great demo's.


Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com [mailto:python at sarcastic-horse.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 11:19 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.


Hi-


My office produces a lot of charts based on time-series data.  We use MS
powerpoint and excel to make these charts.  The data gets updated
regularly, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to automate updating
the charts using these packages.  So, we spend a non-trivial amount of
time manually updating lots of spreadsheets to redraw the charts we need.

I hope to find some sort of python graphics library that can make charts
similar to Excel and Powerpoint, and then I can start automating these
tasks.

Here is an example of the charts we make:

http://www.sarcastic-horse.com/example.pdf #52k size file.

Are there any packages that can do similar charts?  I need to be able to
chart time-series data with occasional missing observations.  I also need
to be able to shade some regions of the charts, and add text titles,
captions and notes.

I'm (slowly) learning the reportlab package, and it looks good, but I
wanted to check if there was an even better solution out there.

Thanks for the help.

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Sep 17 15:56:11 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 21:56:11 +0200
Subject: distutils on win32 with link.exe -- use dlls?
References: <mailman.1063735042.3212.python-list@python.org> <u65jssiml.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <Xns93F8DC80D7DDEcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <isnsikbf.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <Xns93F9DF2B7A4CBcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote in
news:isnsikbf.fsf at python.net: 

> Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> writes:
> 
>> the current gcc in cygwin/mingw can link directly against DLLs (it
>> creates the imp lib on the fly) one reason more to use free software
>> ;-) 
> 
> Can these implibs be used by MSVC?

it does not strore them on the disk in that case.
there are separate tools to generate import libs too but the msvc onces and 
the gnu ones are NOT compatible.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From davidsch at verity.com  Fri Sep 19 20:00:45 2003
From: davidsch at verity.com (David Schnepper)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:00:45 -0700
Subject: whitespace
In-Reply-To: <20030919234817.GC2478@thoth.homegain.com>
Message-ID: <DGEBJOLJPLKOEDDMLCGIGEPGCDAA.davidsch@verity.com>

>>> a = " space tab\tlf\nreturn\rFF\f "
>>> "".join(a.split())
'spacetablfreturnFF'
>>>

Quoting RR (rr84 at cornell.edu):
> Is there an easy way in python to remove whitespace from a string?






From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Sep 14 01:44:09 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 01:44:09 -0400
Subject: [Ann] TTFQuery 0.2.5 (minor update) available
Message-ID: <3F640029.2010104@rogers.com>

TTFQuery has had a few minor bug-fixes over the last week (thanks to 
John Hunter).  You can get the updated version from the homepage:

    http://ttfquery.sourceforge.net/

TTFQuery builds on the FontTools package to allow for searching fonts by 
font name or family, as well as extracting glyph outlines (note: 
FontTools now supports this last natively, but TTFQuery hasn't been 
updated to use that feature yet).  As it directly interacts with font 
files, it does not require that the fonts be installed.  There is also 
some rudimentary logic for locating font files on Win32 and Linux systems.

Enjoy,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 00:46:35 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:46:35 +0100
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
References: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net> <8yoc1wwt.fsf@python.net> <b3Jcb.24430$dk4.777126@typhoon.sonic.net> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309260022410.21689-100000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <71h7nvg9gtktvb7ekn28et4rc6iicjnsh9@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:33:46 +0100, Tom Anderson
<twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:

>Patricia trees (my personal favourite :)

Oh goody - Something new to look up!


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From grante at visi.com  Thu Sep 25 22:55:57 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 02:55:57 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <slrnbn74ch.s2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <slrnap4tqk.18h.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <slrnbn74ch.s2.bignose-hates-spam at rose.localdomain.fake>, Ben Finney wrote:

>> But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this is a
>> myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward or the
>> backward slash as a pathname separator.
> 
> I highly doubt it, since the forward slash (or just "slash") is the
> conventional Windows command-line option indicator,

That was configurable back in the DOS days.  There was a "well-known" byte in
system RAM that contained the "switch" character.  IIRC, DOS even shipped
with a utility to change that value.

> analogous to the hyphen on Unix.  To accept it as the start of a filename
> would break zillions of existing systems, for no appreciable benefit to
> Microsoft.

Forward slashes always worked fine for me.

> Python automagically determines the path component separator, os.sep,
> and uses it for most file path transformations to and from the internal
> language's '/'.
> 
>     <http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.1/lib/os-path.html#l2h-1552>
> 
> Is this perhaps what gives you the impression?

Forward slashes work in C as well.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! It's some people
                                  at               inside the wall! This is
                               visi.com            better than mopping!



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Sep 17 19:14:07 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:14:07 +0100
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <bkapkk$gpi$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

"hokieghal99" <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bkap6g$4o1$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu...
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to do this:
>
> ------------------------------
> a="192."
> b="168."
> c="1."
> r = range(256)
> for r in r:
> print a + b + c + r
> ------------------------------
>
> But, I get this error: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects. So, I
> need to convert the ints in the range to strs, but I do not know how to
> do that. Could someone help me? Ultimately, I want to print out
> something like this to a text file:
>
> 192.168.1.0
> 192.168.1.1
> 192.168.1.2
> ...
> 192.168.1.255
>
> Thanks!!!!
>
>
>
>

>>> a="192."
>>> b="168."
>>> c="1."
>>> r = 12
>>> a + b + c + str(r)
'192.168.1.12'
>>> '%s%s%s%d' % (a,b,c,r)
'192.168.1.12'
>>>

I believe the second approach is generally faster.

Duncan





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Sep 26 12:40:56 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:40:56 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322: Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com>
 <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <YwGd/kKkXQgH092yn@gnosis.cx>         

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote previously:
|ireverse, like imap(), izip(), etc., suggests that the operation happens
|without the memory overhead of copying the whole sequence into a list
|before reversing it.  Do you have some plan for how to do that e.g. with
|simple generators?  Or easy to understand explanation for which things
|can be ireversed and which can't?

Or even just a DECIDABLE explanation for which things can be 'ireversed'
and which can't[*].

Yours, Lulu...

[*] And if you -can- produce such an explanation, I can almost guarantee
you a Fields Medal, and probably a Nobel Prize also.

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From emile at fenx.com  Mon Sep 29 15:37:10 2003
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:37:10 -0700
Subject: Where? run directory
References: <37152603.0309291109.4f16d4b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bla1g7$a0p8i$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Adrian Smith" asks,
> On a windows system.
> I'm trying to get a Mcmillian created program to be 'independent' but
> the first thing I need to do is find out where the program is being
> run from, not the shortcut but the generated exe. This is where I keep
> all the set-up files that I need to access.
> Currently I have a fixed directory but don?t want to write anything
> into the registry.
> Is there a reg setting though that gives the address of the last run
> program (presumably my program) or something like a working directory
> setting.
> I don?t want to have to search for the program through the directory
> structure as that would be very time consuming.
>

I think you're looking for:

import os
print os.path.dirname(__file__)


HTH,

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com





From toby at rcsreg.com  Wed Sep 17 13:40:01 2003
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 10:40:01 -0700
Subject: "New" style classes
Message-ID: <dad71773.0309170940.6dc68a8@posting.google.com>

I gather that a "new style" class inherits from object.

Is this to be considered the way to make all classes
from now on?  If not, when will I know to inherit from
object?  I noticed that it clutters up pydoc output.

Thanks,

Tobiah



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep  8 09:00:25 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:00:25 +0300
Subject: datetime: .datetime-.datetime = .timedelta, .time-.time=TypeError ?
Message-ID: <esuolvc6tuuhfub8jtobffv722281t7p56@4ax.com>

Is there any reason for datetime.time subtraction not returning a
datetime.timedelta object, just like datetime.datetime subtraction does?
It doesn't feel good having to use dumb year, month, day arguments
constructing datetime object when doing only time arithmetic.

If there is no specific reason apart from lack of time (no pun), I'm
willing to research it and write a patch (I haven't seen the code, but I
believe it would be quite easy).

TIA
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From basile-news at starynkevitch.net  Sat Sep  6 08:35:13 2003
From: basile-news at starynkevitch.net (Basile STARYNKEVITCH)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 14:35:13 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours>

>>>>> "John" == John J Lee <jjl at pobox.com> writes:

[...]

    John> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

    Michael>> Same argument holds for supercomputing as well. I may be
    Michael>> wrong but I doubt that the ASCIs will ever see much
    Michael>> Python in their production lifetime.

    John> ASICs, you mean?  Well, no, but so what?  I don't think
    John> anybody has ever *claimed* that Python is suitable for that
    John> kind of application.


No, ASCI are big US government (DoE or DoD) supercomputers (used
notably for nuclear weapons computations).

However, contrarily to Michael's belief, it won't surprise me at all
that some big numerical computations are driven by scripting languages
(scripts which call big number crunching primitives coded in C or C++
or Fortran). At least in Europe, several number crunching applications
are driven by scripts. Of course, a huge fraction of the CPU time (ie
>= 98%) is spend in numerical routines coded in Fortran or C. Only a
tiny fraction of the work is spent in interpreting scripts.

I don't know if the ASCI boxes are running numerical computations
driven by Python (or Ruby) scripts, but obviously they could (and
sometimes similar applications are designed around a scripting
language).


-- 

Basile STARYNKEVITCH         http://starynkevitch.net/Basile/ 
email: basile<at>starynkevitch<dot>net 
aliases: basile<at>tunes<dot>org = bstarynk<at>nerim<dot>net
8, rue de la Fa?encerie, 92340 Bourg La Reine, France



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 17:03:04 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:03:04 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <mailman.1064341934.21653.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-CA53C5.12265623092003@news.service.uci.edu> <Gn1cb.2779$gi2.756@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <so81nvsosmukkds1ne3fbbocjliu3tbjaa@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:43:34 -0700, Tim Hochberg
<tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote:

>I know someone's going to suggest that, since I'm already using slices, 
>I should be in favor of int[a:b:c] or similar. But, that doesn't work 
>any better than range with reversed ranges since you still have to use 
>two slices to make things clear. That is, to get the equivalent of 
>``range(n-1,-1,-1)`` one would need to use ``int[n-1:-1:-1]``, which is 
>no clearer, or ``int[:n][::-1]`` which doesn't seem like a particular 
>win over ``range(n)[::-1]``, which you can do now.

One option is, of course...

  for i in int[:n] :
    j = n - i - 1
    ...

or...

  for i in int[1:n+1] :
    j = n - i
    ...


And I thought half-open ranges were supposed to eliminate all those +1
and -1 things!


I mentioned before that I have recently coded an extension module with
some containers, and had to deal with some slicing issues. One issue
which I haven't resolved yet is whether to add some sliceable
properties for alternate slicing methods (mainly slicing by subscript
on associative containers that are by default sliced by key).

Running with this idea, how about...

  for i in int.backward [:n] :
    ...

where 'backward' means you get the same slice, but iterated in reverse
order. Actually, I'd vote for a 'backward' sliceable property in
strings, lists and tuples too (though the name should probably be
changed). I might even make the property give a more general proxy for
the object that behaves as if the items were reversed (though maybe
not - the number of methods to handle for string in particular would
be a nightmare).


A reverse function (not the existing reverse methods which work
in-place) would of course handle most cases perfectly well. Why can't
we have a built-in library function doing something like...

  def reverse(x) :
    y = x [:]
    y.reverse ()
    return y

Trivial, yes - but probably very useful if you ask me. And I swear it
used to exist, though perhaps only for strings (before some string
stuff got converted to methods).


Anyway, I really don't think this 'backward' property should be part
of the standard int type - I'm rapidly getting more into the idea of
taking Seans prototype from here...

Message-ID: <lWYbb.4739$yD1.697869 at news20.bellglobal.com>

removing the inheritance from int (which is probably redundant) and
making it purely into a library object or recipe. It may be time for
me to properly figure out metatypes ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Sep 16 14:24:31 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:24:31 -0700
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <007a01c37c7f$c5fc6850$21795418@dell1700>

> There is no object-level locking in my proposal. Just independent
> free-threaded interpreters, which don't see the objects of other
> interpreters at all.

OK, but this is useless to the average Python programmer. It is only
useful to people embedding Python interpreters in multithreaded
applications. I would imagine that this represents <1% of Python users.

> There could be an extra global interpreter state for shared-memory
> object access. Accessing this would always be synchronized, but only
> this. Python would automatically copy data from this state to
> thread-local state and back when needed. This would require a special
> syntax for variables in global state:

So now you want to change the language definition for the benefit of a
small minority of users?

Cheers,
Brian





From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 15 07:29:55 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:29:55 +0200
Subject: pyc2py
In-Reply-To: <39324.202.175.228.157.1063620644.squirrel@webmail.chargedideas.com>
References: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de>
	<3F656561.6070701@ghaering.de>
	<39324.202.175.228.157.1063620644.squirrel@webmail.chargedideas.com>
Message-ID: <3F65A2B3.8080501@ghaering.de>

Andres Montiel wrote:
> Hmmm... does this mean that any Python compiled can be decompiled? What if
> someone was selling compiled Python programs. decompyle seems to be able
> to decompile them.

It depends on your business model if this is a problem or not. Looks 
like, for most people, it's not. I believe that apart from Python, even 
in Windows-land, this is much less of a problem than people would think.

> Is there a way to make sure that compiled python code cannot be decompiled?

Ask groups.google.com. This has been discussed many times.

-- Gerhard




From john.abel at pa.press.net  Fri Sep 12 05:19:28 2003
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:19:28 +0100
Subject: Can This Code Be Made Faster?
Message-ID: <3F618FA0.2060203@pa.press.net>

I have a problem, in that the following code is sometimes failing.  I am 
stat'ing a list of files, but, sometimes, one of the files may be moved 
by an external process, after the os.path.exists and before the lstat, 
causing the script to fail.  My question, is there anything I can do to 
speed it up, or put in a trap, to stop the stat from failing?

        fileTimes = [ ( os.lstat( os.path.join( rootPath, fileName ) 
)[stat.ST_MTIME], fileName) for fileName in fileList \
                                                                            
if os.path.exists( os.path.join( rootPath, fileName ) ) ]

I'd appreciate any pointers.

John








From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Sep 24 01:52:21 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 01:52:21 -0400
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695@riquito.matrix> <bkpsng$knm$1@panix1.panix.com> <pan.2003.09.23.21.09.35.146080@riquito.matrix>
Message-ID: <bkrbel$b0q$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <pan.2003.09.23.21.09.35.146080 at riquito.matrix>,
Riccardo Attilio Galli  <riquito at riquito.matrix> wrote:
>
>curiosity: what is "zie" intended to mean? It is maybe slang for he/she ?

It's a gender-neutral pronoun.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 13:32:46 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 18:32:46 +0100
Subject: Newbie-question: Fetching web-address from the browser!
References: <bff50f69.0309110444.55294d83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87u17jfcxt.fsf@pobox.com>

dermoon at hotmail.com (dermoon) writes:

> I want to fetch the address from the web-browser when it
> visits a page on my web-server.
> 
> I use win2k on this server.
> 
> On linux I used os.environ[''], but it seemes it's not available on
> win2k, is this correct?
[...]

Depends which server you're using, I guess (certainly, os.environ is
available in the usual standalone Python execution environment on
Windows, but programs running in webservers will no doubt have all
kinds of variations).  Is this IIS or something?

If you want to have the same environment as on Linux, remember Apache
runs on Windows too (if that's what you were using).

> However, how do I get the address-string?
[...]

Read your server's documentation.


John



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep 22 01:47:19 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 07:47:19 +0200
Subject: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?)
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <87y8wh50ca.fsf@pobox.com> <bkl3fe$fst$01$1@news.t-online.com> <871xu9bok3.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <m3ad8x2x3s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> > >>If this did work, then you can use the DSU pattern like so:
> > > [...strxfrm...]
> > > The advantage of which is that you don't have to mess with the
> > > locale.
> > 
> > No, it doesn't.
> 
> It does set the locale, you mean?  

Calling locale.strxfrm does not cause locale.setlocale to be called,
i.e. it does not set the locale.  Likewise, calling locale.strcoll
does not cause setlocale to be called.

Instead, the application needs to call setlocale *explicitly* for
proper operation of either function.

> So I guess there's no advantage there at all?

Using strxfrm is an advantage if you have to collate the same string
multiple times, e.g. when sorting a list of strings. It is an
advantage because sorting will complete faster.

Regards,
Martin



From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Tue Sep 30 01:39:40 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:39:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP-0263 and default encoding
References: <3f782aef-bdbbd6f1-a72a-4a6c-8b23-c4915b89a61f@news.szn.dk> <blaau5$b0r$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr> <vnhh7etad1t566@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f79171c-d4c587aa-d4ac-44b9-97da-5e0024d4d268@news.szn.dk>

John Roth wrote:

> Remember that the actual Python program has to be in ASCII -
> only the text in string literals can be in different character
> sets. I'm not sure about comments.

Python barfs if there are non-ASCII characters in comments and there
is no coding-line.

Still beats me why it doesn't use the sys.getdefaultencoding() instead
of inconveniencing me.


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 11:21:18 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:21:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: os.listdir
References: <HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br> <mailman.1063171515.17609.python-list@python.org> <bjq102$m21$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F3A4DD43D3Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in news:bjq102$m21$03$1 at news.t-
online.com:

> It is generally very difficult to
> compute the mean access time to a hash. It totally depends on the size of
> the internal hash table allocated as to the number of elements you store
> there. In Perl there is trick to manipulate that (i.e. to increase it
> appropriately when you expect e.g. some 100.000 entries). I don't know
> whether this is possible in (C)Python, according to which algorithm the
> initial size is computed, and when or if the table is reconfigured (which
> would be a major undertaking btw). Any info someone?

In C Python, all dictionaries have an initial size of 8 elements. There is 
no way to override this (except recompiling!)

Maximum dictionary load is 2/3, i.e. when an insertion would result in more 
than 2/3 of the cells being filled[*], the dictionary is resized. Usually 
the resize involves doubling the size, but if a lot of dictionary slots 
have been deleted it can instead reduce the size (or leave it unchanged).
This may be surprising: deleting elements from a Python dictionary never 
decreases the memory allocated to the dictionary, but inserting elements 
can.

The first probe into a dictionary uses only the least significant bits of 
the hash value, but if there is a collision the other hash bits are 
gradually incorporated, so eventually all 32 bits of the hash value are 
used. This means that most collisions diverge quickly.

[*] Terminology: Cells may be free, filled, or used. Initially all cells 
are free, inserting an element changes a cell from free or filled to used, 
deleting changes a cell from used to filled. Lookup probes cells until a 
free cell is seen.

> 
> Apart from that, you will generally find the value to your key with the
> first access if the table is decently dimensioned.


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From lists at webcrunchers.com  Thu Sep  4 22:14:05 2003
From: lists at webcrunchers.com (John D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:14:05 -0700
Subject: in Ram database?
Message-ID: <v03110742bb7da1ba2767@[192.168.0.2]>

Does anyone know if there is an "in-ram" dictionary based database
for Python.   

I can see some applications where this can really be powerful in
applications requiring 10,000 records or less.

Is such a database available?   If so,  who is working on it,  
or where is it?    

I've heard that Python supports a stand-alone database.   I looked
for it in the Docs,  and see the "dbm" module.   I haven't found
any examples of code,  so don't know how to use them.   I'm one
of those guys that learn through examples,  and have very little
luck in figuring out how to use anything unless I can see examples
of their use.

My idea is that ALL datums would be Python Dictionary objects,  so
not only can you store data,  but python objects as well.

Storage to disk would be through pickled files,  or through CSV
format,  allowing easy import and export from other databases.

I'm sure something like this exists,  I just haven't found it yet,
and if not,  then I'm well on my way of implementing one myself.

I kinda like the idea of being able to define smaller tables as
"in-memory" types,  and the really large massive ones in other forms
managed by mySQL, PostGres, or bsddb3 databases.

Any leads you guys???

JD






From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep  9 07:52:57 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:52:57 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410@reader1.news.jippii.net> <vlpeq9jko1l6b0@news.supernews.com> <7T47b.4753$ZB4.113@reader1.news.jippii.net> <vlpr14kfehrn46@news.supernews.com> <rKadnXfgmJJdosCiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <vlrfohfp908qd7@news.supernews.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:rKadnXfgmJJdosCiXTWJiQ at comcast.com...
>
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
> news:vlpr14kfehrn46 at news.supernews.com...
> > It's not a simple thing to do, and the fact that ML
> > family languages manage to do it without having
> > to have explicit type declarations (well, most of the
> > time anyway) is a major achievement, IMO.
>
> As I remember, part of the cost (for ML at least) is having separate
> operators for ints and floats.

As well as separate operators for a number of other things. This
isn't unique to ML, though. For other reasons, Perl has a seperate
set of operators for string versus numeric comparisons, and even
Python has separate operators for division.

> Bye bye generic functions.

Actually, they seem to be able to have generic functions, at least
in some restricted cases.

> I don't
> remember if there was any escape from the type straightjacket (like
> #define max(a,b) ... in C).  And one has to adjust to and feel
> comfortable enough with the view that multiparam functions are a
> composition of single param functions.

I'm not sure how central currying is to the type inference
mechanism.

> But I agree that the type
> inferencing is an interesting achievement.

Yes, it is. That is, I think, my point. If we want to have some
form of static typing and still keep Python reasonably close to the
streamlined language we all know and love, this seems like an
interesting research direction.

John Roth

>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>





From zsh-announce-help at sunsite.dk  Thu Sep  4 18:32:34 2003
From: zsh-announce-help at sunsite.dk (zsh-announce-help at sunsite.dk)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 22:32:34 -0000
Subject: ezmlm response
Message-ID: <1062714754.18498.ezmlm@sunsite.dk>

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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep 11 20:46:06 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:46:06 -0400
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com> <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net> <66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp@4ax.com> <A8Ccna05HMkwQ_2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com> <uo02mv0dugi9ijk0k3llar0g3nmtnm59m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CACdnZh3QbnSivyiXTWJiA@comcast.com>

"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote
in message news:uo02mv0dugi9ijk0k3llar0g3nmtnm59m6 at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:44:28 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >realize that 'ref x' would have to have much the same effect of
Lisp's
> >FEXPR defun keyword -- of automatically quoting rather than
evaluating
> >args -- although on just one rather than all.  Perhaps you should
be
> >accused of 'trying to Lispify Python' -- or perhaps not ;-).
>
> I didn't know Lisp could do that.

Based on my reading of Winston&Horn's LISP (1st ed, 1981, MacLisp
based), auto quoting is the key to how Lisp conveniently turns
statements into syntactic functions.  Example:

Python statement: a=b # a is *not* evaluated but used literally
Python function: set('a',b) # requires explicit quote to not eval a
       where, for instance, def set(nam,val): globals()[nam]=val

Lisp s-expression 1: (set 'a b) # call is like Python function
Lisp s-expression 2: (setq a b) # where setq is an FEXPR-type function
that evaluates b but uses a literally, like Python statement

Autoquoting is also used for macro manipulation of code.

>I have to read up on Common Lisp one of these days.

LISP, 3rd ed, 1989, still in print, uses standard Common Lisp.
Chapter 12 Macros and Backquote might be of interest to you.

Terry J. Reedy





From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 10:40:33 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:40:33 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <m2isnkduqt.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <dul0nv0v3tqhp05kd5pbalsf677ku12obg@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:55:06 +1200, Paul Foley <see at below.invalid>
wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:47:03 +0100, Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> In terms of flexible loops, Ada is basically the Daddy.
>
>http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm

Young upstart compared to ALGOL!



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 12 06:33:43 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:33:43 +0100
Subject: Trouble with source-code encoding
References: <9u63mvoij7b8h2fh6tmj2e9af1akqjl3de@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F61A107.835F0F77@hotmail.com>

Fernando Rodriguez wrote:
> However, the pep doesn't list the name of valid  encodings.  What's
> the name for west european encoding?

Unfortunately, there is no way, from code, to get a list of valid
encodings.

You can get a good idea of supported encodings, their names and
various aliases, by looking at the source of 

Lib/encodings/aliases.py

which gives the following list of possible names for the "latin_1"
codec

'8859'           
'cp819'          
'csisolatin1'    
'ibm819'         
'iso8859'        
'iso_8859_1'     
'iso_8859_1_1987'
'iso_ir_100'     
'l1'             
'latin'          
'latin1'         

Any of those should work as your script encoding.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From vincent at visualtrans.de  Tue Sep 16 13:47:09 2003
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:47:09 +0200
Subject: Tkinter.Text can never be empty?
References: <70df36e9.0309160826.596dd5ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk7h90$geg$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Harry Pehkonen" <harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:70df36e9.0309160826.596dd5ab at posting.google.com...
| While setting up some unit tests, I came to the conclusion that a
| Tkinter Text widget can never be empty, but will always (?) contain a
| \n.  Here is a brief example:
|
| >>> import Tkinter
| >>> t = Tkinter.Text()
| >>> t.get(0.0, Tkinter.END)
| '\n'
| >>> t.delete(0.0, Tkinter.END)
| >>> t.get(0.0, Tkinter.END)
| '\n'
| >>>
|
| My apologies, but I have not checked whether or not this can be
| reproduced in Tcl/Tk (which I think might have been appropriate).
|
| My question is:  Is there *always* a trailing \n, is this a bug, or am
| I doing something silly?

Nope, this is one of the idiosyncrasies of our friend the Text widget;
there's always this immortal LF at the end.

Vincent Wehren
|
| Thanks!
| Harry.





From mxlplx2003 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  2 11:40:45 2003
From: mxlplx2003 at yahoo.com (mxlplx)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Zope from Interwoven
References: <3cf2990f.0308280620.3dec0c39@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.08.28.16.01.29.135591@exultants.org>
Message-ID: <3cf2990f.0309020740.45b34489@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the info.  I knew this was going to be ugly!


Van Gale <news at exultants.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.08.28.16.01.29.135591 at exultants.org>...
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:20:47 -0700, mxlplx wrote:
> 
> > I'm currently working on a project to convert an Interwoven-based site
> > to use Zope instead.  Has anyone attempted this before and if so, were
> > you able to do it with Zope?  Could you use the XML files produced by
> > Interwoven?  Any ideas would be appreciated.
> 
> I can't think of a single thing the 2 systems have in common really, so it
> won't be an easy task.
> 
> The conversion to Zope should mostly be possible, and is probably worth it
> considering the cost of the conversion will probably be less than
> licensing costs... but you'll have to develop custom tools to convert any
> data that can be converted and the rest will have to be developed from
> scratch.
> 
> Some bits, such as workflow XML/perl templates probably cannot be
> converted at all and you'll need to redesign workflows in the Zope way.
> 
> If your pages are ASP or PHP you'll have to convert them to Zope's DTML or
> TAL.
> 
> If you use metadata you'll need to design objects with attributes to
> match.
> 
> The XML from Teamsite templates would also be replaced by python objects,
> which means processing the teamsite XML to create a new object, merging
> the metadata, and then getting that object into Zope's object storage.
> 
> You might get a better answer on the Zope mailing list, but I bet it'll be
> the same general "Ugh!" :)
> 
> Van



From myles at geocities.com  Mon Sep 22 21:18:52 2003
From: myles at geocities.com (Myles)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 18:18:52 -0700
Subject: Proxy Authentication using urllib2
References: <mailman.1064015428.25301.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a4638b9b.0309221718.1774d393@posting.google.com>

Andre Bocchini <lists at andrebocchini.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064015428.25301.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm having some trouble using proxy authentication.  I can't figure out 
> how to authenticate with a Squid proxy.  I know for a fact the proxy is 

A piece of code that works through a Squid proxy here - originally
clipped from comp.lang.python - possibly an eff-bot post if my dim
memory serves me correctly.

---- snip ----
import urllib2

proxy_info = {
    'user' : 'username',
    'pass' : 'password',
    'host' : "proxy.name.com",
    'port' : 80 # or 8080 or whatever
}
 
# build a new opener that uses a proxy requiring authorization
proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" : \
   "http://%(user)s:%(pass)s@%(host)s:%(port)d" % proxy_info})
opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_support, urllib2.HTTPHandler)
 
# install it
urllib2.install_opener(opener)

# use it
f = urllib2.urlopen('http://www.python.org/')
print f.headers
print f.read()
---- snip ----

Regards, Myles.



From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Wed Sep 17 16:23:23 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:23:23 +0200
Subject: Simple python cgi question
References: <MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net> <87llsnmrw4.fsf@flibuste.net>
 <wG6dneAarP2YP_WiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <87znh3411g.fsf@flibuste.net>

Stephen Boulet <stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net> writes:

> Wilk wrote:
>> Stephen Boulet <stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net> writes:
>>
>>>First of all, I'm not sure that the easiest way to do this is with
>>>python ...
>>>
>>>I'd like to set up a web page that would accept a text file, process
>>>it with a local program, and then make available generated pdf and
>>>postscript files for downloading.
>>>
>>>I'd like to limit the size of the file to be uploaded.
>>>
>>>I have apache2 already up. Is this a job for (mod_)python?
>> Yes why not ?
>
> I was hoping for a bit more detail ...
>

If you will do it in cgi, look at the cgi module, and for the pdf look
at http://www.reportlab.com 

After, try to be more precise in your question if you want more
details...

bye

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 24 21:22:09 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:22:09 -0700
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <878yoe2jsc.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bktfn0$5ood1$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| You can download the HTML docs separately, 
| or decompile the .chm back to HTML.  
| See recent threads about this.

John ....

    Thanks for the reply .... 

    It's nice to know there are options .... 

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona




From user at invalid.domain  Thu Sep 25 09:31:08 2003
From: user at invalid.domain (Invalid User)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:31:08 +0200
Subject: "for" with "else"?
Message-ID: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

While trying to print a none empty list, I accidentaly put an "else"
statement with a "for" instead of "if". Here is what I had:

   if ( len(mylist)> 0)  :
     for x,y in mylist:
       print x,y
     else:
       print "Empty list"

which was supposed to be:

   if ( len(mylist)> 0)  :
     for x,y in mylist:
       print x,y
   else:
     print "Empty list"


Is this to be expected?
(python 2.2.2)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
 >>> for x in range(5):
...   print x*x
... else:
...   print "done"
...
0
1
4
9
16
done
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=




From mark at hahnca.com  Sat Sep 27 14:24:35 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:24:35 -0700
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305@fed1read04>

> Pylint is a lint-like tool for Python code

Does pylint only work for modules?  When I tried to run it on my code file
(ezpicmailer.py) , it raised an exception:

No config file found, using default configuration
<snip>
Exception: Unable to find module for C:\photoedit\ezpicmailer in
<snip>

and then it gave a long list of modules in my sys.path.  It seems to insist
that the argument I give it be a module in sys.path, not just an arbitrary
python code file.

------------------------------------------

"Alexandre Fayolle" <Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list at python.org...
Logilab has released pylint-0.2

What's new?
-----------

In addition to a large number of bug fixes, this release adds two new
checkers, for missing encoding declaration, and for FIXME comments. Zope
support was improved.

About Pylint
------------

Pylint is a lint-like tool for Python code. It performs almost all the
verifications that pychecker does, and additionally can perform some
stylistic verification and coding standard enforcements. The checked
code is assigned a mark based on the number and the severity of the
encountered problems. The previous mark of a given piece of code is
cached so that you can see if the code quality has improved since the
last check.

URLs
----

Homepage: http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint
Download: ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/pylint/pylint-0.2.tar.gz


-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 12:41:40 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:41:40 -0400
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org> <slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net> <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75>
Message-ID: <3F688EC4.F39D551B@engcorp.com>

Fred Pacquier wrote:
> 
> Mirko Zeibig <mirko-lists at zeibig.net> said :
> 
> > Especially useful together with the locals() function, which returns a
> > dictionary of locally defined variables:
> >
> > def foo():
> >     a = "Hello"
> >     b = "World"
> >     print "%(a)s %(b)s" % locals()
> 
> Yes, that's a wonderful feature. Recently though, I've wondered a couple of
> times : is there an easy way to substitute with both local AND global
> variables ?...

tempDict = locals()
tempDict.update(globals())

then just use tempDict for the dictionary...

You can also do it the other way around, of course, and you must decide
which you really want since the last-added dictionary will of course 
mask any keys which are also in the first-added dictionary.

-Peter



From adfgvx at free.fr  Sat Sep 20 06:33:04 2003
From: adfgvx at free.fr (adfgvx)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:33:04 +0200
Subject: Sick (yaml library) and Python
Message-ID: <3f6c2cdf$0$2770$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

I am looking for a Compiled version of the Sick extension for Python
(Windows XP and Python 2.2). Does anyone have one and send it to me ?

Thanking you by advance,

Bruno





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Wed Sep 17 07:10:37 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 04:10:37 -0700
Subject: Can Python Module Locate Itself?
References: <VYR9b.1109$c17.866@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309170310.56c749d6@posting.google.com>

Hello sj,

> I have written several small shell utilities in Python and typically use 
> comments at the start of the source file as documentation. A command line 
> option allows the user to read this documentation.  The problem is that I 
> have to explicitly code the source files location within the source which 
> is not very portable.  Is there anyway for a python module to locate its 
> own source ?
sys.argv[0] is always the name of the script.

Have you looked at the new optparse module?
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-optparse.html)

HTH.
Miki



From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Mon Sep  8 18:40:56 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:40:56 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
Message-ID: <000901c3765a$45d7f160$0c02a8c0@Arts>

>I do not believe that Economics is the relevant field to consult as to the
>purpose of the python.org website.

OT, to be sure:

but, as it happens

a favorite of mine website pays homage to the Economist.

http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/economists.htm

Less OT, is my confusion about an approach promoting Python which does not
adequately distinguish itself from the approach that may be appropriate to
promoting, say, peoplesoft.  An analogy that has been made.

I had the same confusion at the PBF meeting at PyCon. There it was Java
based technologies, for example, that was discussed as a competitor.
But in my view, *especially* from the managers point of view, the
implementation language of a particular technology is not particularly of
interest and the people promoting a specific technology generally assume
that is so.

It will mostly be of interest, only in the negative.  If it's Java or C++,
let's move on.  If its Python or Ocaml - perhaps it needs to be discussed.

And I understand the "promoting Python" campaign as an organized effort to
assist some in getting past that discussion.

The issue boils down to a chicken and egg thing.  As the critical mass
number of programmers using Python grows, the discussion begins to go away
of its own accord.  So that "promoting python"  should, in that case, remain
directed toward the hard core developer community.

OTOH, it could be argued that that critical mass of Python programmers will
not be achieved before there is support from managment. So that is where
promotion should be directed.

But it is my guess that efforts of a programming language community to
promote its favorite language that is transparently the efforts of a
programming language community to promote its favorite programming language
can have  - let's say - unintended consequences. Especially, if it moves too
far from the aesthetic that got it to where it has gotten.

So I would advise a gradualist approach.  Not a shocking break from the past
approach of python.org. Which is blandly, but cheerfully, informational - in
a generalist way.
Having gotten the ball rolling to the extent it has, it is an approach with
a track record.

I like track records.

Art





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep  8 17:31:52 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:31:52 -0400
Subject: Eureka!
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
 <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
 <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
 <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org>
 <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com> <8LPX/kKkX89D092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <IVPX/kKkXEUO092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote previously:
|* You can't tell ahead of time what site you are going to be redirected to.
|  As a result, you lose complete freedom to choose whether or not you should
|  follow the link.

As Dave Brueck noted, the same is true of ANY URL.  I use a few
redirects on my own website, so just because you think you are going to
a gnosis.cx address doesn't mean you'll wind up there.  In an innocuous
case, the URL <http://gnosis.cx/TpiP/> redirects you to my actual book
page (which differs in capitalization)--this just addresses a typo AW
made on my jacket.  Even so, the page you wind up seeing has a different
URL that what you copy to your browser.  A slightly greater change is
with <http://gnosis.cx/voting-project/>, which directs you to an
entirely different host (for now, I might more it to the same host
later).  While there's no malice here, readers had no idea they would
wind up on gnosis.python-hosting.com.

If I wanted to be REALLY malicious, I could post a link like:

    http://gnosis.cx/python/

:-).

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From dgallion at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 15:35:51 2003
From: dgallion at yahoo.com (darrell)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 19:35:51 GMT
Subject: Automated code generation
In-Reply-To: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <rML6b.10256$3t2.812@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

I write tools for testing embedded systems.
They parse the .h files and doc files to associate names with hex 
values... This produces meg's of .py files which then support writing 
tools and test scripts.

Everything from structure layout to:

EMERGENCY_STOP_CMD=0x1234567L
...
SOME_STRUCT=(["f1","f2","f3"],">fI10s")
...
ERROR_100="Somethig bad"


Does this qualify as code generation?

When the project wants to change something like how we "log".
Python is used to parse the entire source tree making changes.
Not Python code generation but it's more complicated than 
search/replace. And could be applied to a Python code base as well

Is this code generation?

--Darrell


Max M wrote:
> Yesterday there was an article on Slashdot:
> http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/04/1415210&mode=flat&tid=108&tid=126&tid=156 
> 
> 
> It is about automatic code generation.
> 
> I got interrested in the subject, did a web search, and it seems kind of 
> powerfull.
> 
> My main interrest is web development in Zope/CMF/Plone, where there is a 
> lot of repeated code in the products. So automated code generation seems 
> like a natural fit.
> 
> But every time I think of a use case, I immediately think of a way to do 
> it with encapsulation instead.
> 
> Does anybody have any experience using Python and automated code 
> generation where it actually make sense?
> 
> Or os it useless in a language as dynamic as Python?
> 
> 
> regards max M
> 




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Sep 14 17:06:28 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:06:28 -0700
Subject: checking type of my own objects
References: <db65c3606f4aa39dd8459eb92fa5f5e4@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <3F64D854.E1EF5B27@alcyone.com>

Tobiah wrote:

> What is the best way to check the type?

	e.__class__ is Event

or if you want to include subclasses:

	isinstance(e, Event)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If the sun comes up / And you're not home / I'll be strong
\__/  India Arie



From jordan at krushen.com  Tue Sep 23 01:35:57 2003
From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:35:57 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <r2Qbb.195$eB.185@twister.southeast.rr.com> <18kvmvobs9jsq50o91m35cveu49heev7mh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <oprvxtxmiq5ctagx@shawnews>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:08:06 +0100, Stephen Horne wrote:

>   for ever :
>     <statements>
>   break if <condition> :

You could always hide something similar in a generator:


def forever():
     while True: yield True

for now in forever():
     print 'looping forever...'


...although I must admit, I don't really mind "while True:" that much.

syntactic-sugar-is-bittersweet-ly y'rs,

J.



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep 23 15:54:51 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:54:51 -0700
Subject: Factory function to generate a named class
References: <3f702b3a$0$23594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au> <mailman.1064318131.14654.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F70A50B.F22539AA@alcyone.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> Populate a dict with a mapping from class names to class objects:

He already has such a dictionary.  It's globals().  :-)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Golf is a good walk spoiled.
\__/  Mark Twain



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Sep 20 17:56:57 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:56:57 -0500
Subject: 2nd iteration of a character
In-Reply-To: <bkigte$1e3b$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bkigte$1e3b$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20030920215657.GB10939@unpythonic.net>

You probably want to write this in terms of find with a start argument
specified.  This minimally-tested function seems to do the job.

def findn(haystack, needle, n, start=0):
    while 1:
	idx = haystack.find(needle, start)
	if idx == -1 or n==1: break
	n -= 1
	start = idx+1
    return idx

>>> findn("axbxcx", "x", 2)
3
>>> findn("axbxcx", "z", 2)
-1

Jeff




From prochak at netzero.net  Thu Sep 11 02:37:47 2003
From: prochak at netzero.net (Erik Lechak)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 23:37:47 -0700
Subject: a quick program to download tv listings
Message-ID: <1f0bdf30.0309102237.d29f0de@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

Is there anyone out there that has written anything in python to
download tv listings (no XML)?

All the tv listing stuff that I can find is way too complex for my
taste (includes XML overkill or is not in python).  I wrote the test
program below and it works.  I am just curious if anyone has a more
robust python implementation before I take the time to add all the
bells and whistles.

Chron is just a class like datetime, but I wrote it to accept just
about every english way of expressing time.  The important thing is to
put the epoch time in the URL.

If anyone is interested in Chron, I can post it or send it to them.

Hope you enjoy the code,
Erik Lechak

import urllib
import re
from pygra.Chron import Chron

class Show:
    '''
    Just a structure to hold program information
    '''
    def __init__(self):
        name=""
        channel=""
        station=""
        start=""
        end=""

 
def getGrid(timestring):
    shows=[]
    t=Chron(timestring)
    f = urllib.urlopen('http://tv.yahoo.com/grid?lineup=us_DMA560&genres=&dur=&starttime='+str(int(t.epoch))+'&.intl=us')
    data = f.read()
    data=[d.strip('\n') for d in data]
    data="".join(data)
    data=data.split("</A>")
    for d in data:
        progs = re.findall('<A HRef="\/tvpdb\?d=tvp&id=(.*)',d)
        for s in progs:
            m= re.search('(\d*)&cf.*channels=us_([^&]*).*&chname=([^\+]*)\+(\d+)&progutn=(\d*)&.*>(.*)',s)
            show=Show()
            show.name=m.group(6)
            show.start=m.group(5)
            show.channel=int(m.group(4))
            show.station=m.group(3)
            shows.append(show)
    return shows
 

shows =getGrid('now')

for s in [s for s in shows if s.channel==17]:
        print s.name



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 08:47:57 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 13:47:57 +0100
Subject: pyQT pushButton
References: <bj4cn1$ibu$1@reader10.wxs.nl>
Message-ID: <8765kaox6q.fsf@pobox.com>

Tom Van den Brandt <guineapig at pi.be> writes:

> Is there anyone using pyQt who can tell me if I can set/change the internal
> id of a pushbutton myself ?  I can't find anything in the docs...

What internal id?  I don't remember one.  What problem are you trying
to solve?


John



From sdementen at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  4 05:07:36 2003
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 02:07:36 -0700
Subject: python plugin for excel (ala gnumeric)
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0309040107.7f1b6aff@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've read lot of messages on googlegroups without finding what I'm
looking for :-(

I need a plugin that enables me to access a python VM directly from
excel (the COM server path is not satisfactory as it uses the
registry).

Grosso modo, if I have the equivalent of the python module/plugin of
gnumeric (http://grub.ath.cx/gnumeric-python/ or
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~ctwardy/starting-with-python.html) it
would be great !

tx for any hint

Sebastien



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 19:32:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:32:50 -0400
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6F86A2.DC29472A@engcorp.com>

Todd Johnson wrote:
> 
> I am creating a dialog in wxPython for log in
> purposes. Basically when the user clicks the ok
> button, the dialog box saves the user name and
> password as class attributes. Then as long as the
> dialog exists calling MyDialog.GetUserName() and
> MyDialog.GetPassword() returns them. This seems
> insecure to me. 

Why do you feel it's insecure?

> On a similar note, I want to save the password to a
> file. How do I encrypt the password?

You don't encrypt passwords, you hash them.  That means use a
cryptographically strong hashing algorithm such as SHA or MD5
and store the resulting value.  Later, when a user has entered 
a password which you want to check against the correct one, you 
run the same hash algorithm on the password-under-test and compare 
the result with the stored result.  The hash algorithm is designed
so that it's computationally infeasible to reverse-engineer a
password that corresponds to a given hash value, making it about
as good as storing the real thing without the insecurity in
that approach.  Luckily, these algorithms are already implemented
for you so you don't need to deal with the complexities.

Note, however, the likelihood that somebody interested in 
cracking this whole system could easily do things like change
the Python source, or modify the password file that contains the
hash value, substituting their own pre-calculated hash which
matches the password they wish to enter.

Assuming you are just trying to prevent casual intrusion and
there's really nothing valuable involved, a simple hash using
the sha or md5 module would probably do fine.  Of course, at this
point I fully expect a dozen people with more background in 
security to start stomping all over this advice and tell you 
how wrong it is, but I live to provide people with that kind of
opportunity. ;-)

I encourage you to learn more about this, too, by searching the
web or something.  Time spent studying security issues will always 
repay itself, no matter your current level of expertise...

-Peter



From mmmmn77NOSPAM at NOSPAMhotmail.com  Wed Sep 10 01:47:15 2003
From: mmmmn77NOSPAM at NOSPAMhotmail.com (M)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:47:15 +0200
Subject: Interested in learning Python with me?
Message-ID: <bjmdvq$64d$1@news.cybercity.dk>

Hi, i'm trying to gather a small group of people who wants to learn Python
from the beginning with me.

First a few lines about myself (very few!:)):
I have practically no experience with any kind of programming (tried some,
but always got stuck in the beginning with various languages) - but now I
feel its the time to finally learn a programming language.

Having read a bit in various programming-groups on usenet, i've come to the
conclusion that Python is the most suitable (easy to use,
platform-independant, easy syntax, free, and very powerful - or so i've read
anyway :-)).

My goal is to be able to make small utilities for myself mainly, in a MS
Windows environment (and MAYBE later Linux), and if I really get the hang of
programming - I imagine taking a closer look on some of the different
"web"-languages (php, asp, xml etc. etc.) or even another "real" language
like Java.

My plan is that we (maybe 2-10 people) follow a few of the same
books/tutorials, not neccesarily at the same speed, and then on a daily (or
so) basis exchange experiences and ask things one might have had trouble
understanding etc.

A combination of a forum and icq/msn/etc. might be a good idea to keep in
contact during the learning-process, but I'm of course open for other
suggestions.

I've been skimming through various tutorials and books about Python, and the
free book named "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist:Learning with
Python" - http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/  I find to be a good book
for beginners - not TOO big, and yet it contain some nice explanations.
So unless any better suggestions, I think we should be following that book
for a start.

It's not my plan to make a very strict reading-plan we all HAVE to follow -
I see it more as an attempt to create an open forum for total beginners
where we help eachother out with problems we get from the tutorials/books we
read. And hopefully it will end up with small projects we help eachother
with or even work together on! :)

If you are interested, drop me an email on mmmmn77NOSPAM at NOSPAMhotmail.com
(remove 'nospam') and tell me in a couple of lines of yourself, and your
experience or lack of, with programming. Or feel free to ask any questions
in here or come with suggestions, or even critique of my "plan" :-).


M






From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Mon Sep 15 09:17:05 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:17:05 -0500
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts... oops
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85E46EB2@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Sorry,

just see that you already looked at reportlab.
Sorry, it is Monday morning here...

Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com [mailto:python at sarcastic-horse.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 11:19 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.


Hi-


My office produces a lot of charts based on time-series data.  We use MS
powerpoint and excel to make these charts.  The data gets updated
regularly, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to automate updating
the charts using these packages.  So, we spend a non-trivial amount of
time manually updating lots of spreadsheets to redraw the charts we need.

I hope to find some sort of python graphics library that can make charts
similar to Excel and Powerpoint, and then I can start automating these
tasks.

Here is an example of the charts we make:

http://www.sarcastic-horse.com/example.pdf #52k size file.

Are there any packages that can do similar charts?  I need to be able to
chart time-series data with occasional missing observations.  I also need
to be able to shade some regions of the charts, and add text titles,
captions and notes.

I'm (slowly) learning the reportlab package, and it looks good, but I
wanted to check if there was an even better solution out there.

Thanks for the help.

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From google at evpopov.com  Tue Sep  9 12:35:00 2003
From: google at evpopov.com (popov)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 09:35:00 -0700
Subject: Pb when connecting to unopened ports and using socket timeout
Message-ID: <7eecf173.0309090835.38610d3b@posting.google.com>

Hello,

When using the timeout option with a socket object (python 2.3), I
don't have the same behaviour under Windows than under Linux / Mac.

Specifically, if trying to connect to an unopened port of the
localhost, I get a timeout exception on Windows (tested under W2K
Server), whereas I get a "111 - Connection Refused" exception on Linux
and "22 - Invalid Argument" on Mac (OS X).

Even if the error message under Mac is not really appropriate, I think
that the behaviour under Linux and Mac is the right one, in that it
sends (quickly) an error message and not timeouting.

Note that when using blocking socket the behaviour is ok under all
platforms: they each return back quickly a "Connection refused" error
message (err codes are different depending on the platform (61=Mac,
111=Linux, 10061=Windows)).

What do you think ?

I heard that the timeout option was implemented based on Timothy
O'Malley timeoutsocket.py. Then, maybe the pb can come from the usage
of select in the connection function: select is not asked to get back
exceptions in the returned triple, whereas I think some errors can be
returned back through this mean under Windows (according to Tip 25 of
Jon C. Snader book's "Effective TCP/IP Programming"). So, by not
checking the returned exceptions, we would miss the "connection
refused" error and get instead the timeout error...



From juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net  Wed Sep  3 14:15:16 2003
From: juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net (Changjune Kim)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:15:16 +0900
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
References: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj5b4g$jtg$1@news.hananet.net>

"Jane Austine" <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a at posting.google.com...
> As you add more items, say text lines, in Text widget, it gets too
> slow and almost impractical to use on. Take idle for example. If the
> text gets bigger(e.g. print
> urllib.urlopen('http://www.amazon.com').read() ), it becomes too
> sluggish to use as an "interactive" shell.
>
> I have tried wxPython and it seems to have the same problem (from my
> experience using PyCrust).
>
> Is there any way to speed up Text widget, or should I look for another
> GUI library?
>
> Jane

Yes, it gets real slow. It happens quite often when a long single line is
shown on the window currently, like in your amazon html example.

Try this instead,

pprint(urllib.urlopen('http://www.amazon.com').readlines())

It won't get slow even when it's still on the screen; it inserts multiple
(short) lines. If you have to insert a lot of long lines, maybe you have to
look into WCK and customize it as Michael said in his posting to the
thread. (I'm interested to see his "extremely fast" text widget, too)

Best regards,

June Kim








From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Sep 11 17:11:41 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:11:41 -0700
Subject: metaclasses for type comparison
References: <pan.2003.09.11.01.50.58.897682@webone.com.au> <GBR7b.415613$uu5.75083@sccrnsc04> <pan.2003.09.11.04.48.46.966122@webone.com.au> <eppstein-B61455.11450111092003@news.service.uci.edu> <q6o1mv0tt1lgnhmmcvig9926rmuimc60he@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-401CE9.14114111092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <q6o1mv0tt1lgnhmmcvig9926rmuimc60he at 4ax.com>,
 Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

> ><= is supposed to be a total ordering, so it is not a good idea to use 
> >it for partial orders such as subclass hierarchies.
> 
> Is it?  I never came across such a supposition, which in itself says
> nothing because I have very little experience anyway, but what about
> set inclusion in the sets module which can be written as <=?

I don't have 2.3 yet, so haven't used sets yet, but what happens if you 
try to sort a list of sets?

I found a message 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-bugs-list/2003-January/015454.h
tml> from Guido wondering about this but didn't see what the response 
was...

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Sep 21 21:47:27 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:47:27 -0600
Subject: Connect to VBA Objects?
In-Reply-To: <vmv8d1hdf55ia0@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vmv8d1hdf55ia0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200309211947.27309.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Monday 22 September 2003 07:38 pm, Kenneth Hutson wrote:
> Hi,
> I wonder if Python can connect to the object models exposed by Excel or
> Word.
> Thanks in advance,
> Ken Hutson
> San Antonio, Texas

Yep, assuming you have the win32all extensions installed:

from win32com.client import Dispatch
d = Dispatch('Word.Application')
d.Visible = 1
...

-Dave




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep  8 05:56:38 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 09:56:38 GMT
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062983352.15417.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnY6b.42704$R32.1360114@news2.tin.it>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

> "Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote previously:
> |Please could we move this discussion to one of the appropriate lists as
> |well.  I suggest python-marketing to begin with.
> 
> A marketing list is just not an appropriate forum for discussing
> redesigning the main python website.  The page www.python.org just
> simply should not be driven primarily, or even significantly, by
> "marketing" issues... it's us developers who use it, in the overwhelming
> majority.

So, you're asserting that the target audience of the site IS and SHOULD BE
"developers".  Surprise, surprise: this assertion IS "a marketing issue".
Marketing BEGINS with the identification of target audiences and the
products and services that will best meet the target audiences' need.

Many techies think of "marketing" as a dirty word because it's so often
misused as an inappropriate synonym for "selling".  Using words properly,
marketing is a perfectly legitimate and important activity: identify
who you're addressing, address their needs through appropriate products
and services, communicate to them that your products and services do
address their needs, listen to their feedback and adjust your products
and services to meet their needs even better, look for other audiences
that might get their needs met by your products and services possibily
with some modifications.


Alex




From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  4 09:31:58 2003
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Austine Jane)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:31:58 +0900
Subject: Active Scripting in Python
Message-ID: <BAY2-F91vvQ0Puz63Bm00011035@hotmail.com>



>From: Mark McEahern <marklists at mceahern.com>
>To: Jane Austine <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com>
>CC: Python <python-list at python.org>
>Subject: Re: Active Scripting in Python
>Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:12:06 -0500
>
>On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 23:23, Jane Austine wrote:
> > I donwloaded win32all for Python 2.3 and installed it.
> >
> > I manually run pyscript.py and it returned "successfully registered"
> > message.
> >
> > For a simple test(on client side), I created the following html:
> >
> > <script language=Python>
> > alert("hello world")
> > </script>
> >
> > And opened it in IE6.0 on WinXP.  Unfortunately, it doesn't show
> > anything.
>
>I can't test this right now because my Windows machine at home is dead
>(long story), but have you tried using:
>
>print "hello world"
>
>OR
>
>document.write("hello world")
>
>I guess my question is whether "alert" is available when you're using
>language="Python".
>
>// m
>

Tried. Neither one of both works. Thanks, anyway.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail





From mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 23 12:43:31 2003
From: mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:43:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: idle import problem
Message-ID: <49799.199.169.240.132.1064335411.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-

I'm trying to import a countylist.py file in idle, and it isn't working. 
What am I doing wrong?

>>> os.listdir(os.getcwd())
['4dcountylist.txt', 'CBP90KY_TXT.htm', 'CBP90OH_TXT.htm',
'CBP90PA_TXT.htm', 'CBP90WV_TXT.htm', 'countylist.py', 'geocode.txt',
'mvsales.xls', 'mvsalesbyfirm.xls', 'production_in_4d.xls',
'USSalesSummary0308-1.xls']
>>> import countylist

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#15>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    import countylist
ImportError: No module named countylist
>>>

Any ideas?




From usenet at microtonal.co.uk  Mon Sep  8 17:28:38 2003
From: usenet at microtonal.co.uk (Graham Breed)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:28:38 +0100
Subject: win32com: create email message in windows default app?
In-Reply-To: <cTZ6b.29715$hE5.1059970@news1.tin.it>
References: <z9I6b.18545$n94.7236@fed1read04> <bjfpt5$l3s$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr> <TJK6b.18840$n94.10086@fed1read04> <cTZ6b.29715$hE5.1059970@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3w67b.3150$p%5.1938@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Oh btw,
> 
>     os.system('start "mailto:foo at bar.com?subject=what ever"')
> 
> if you want to pump the subject into the msg as well as the recipient.

If I click that link in Mozilla, I get "whatever" as a single word.  I 
don't think I ever worked out a way for Outlook and Mozilla to agree 
that there's a space in a subject.  Either could be the default Windows 
mail client.


             Graham




From essai1 at mci.local  Thu Sep 18 17:47:03 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:47:03 +0200
Subject: win32comm
References: <mailman.1063896746.31017.python-list@python.org> <924a9f9c.0309181220.17bf6984@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkd98g$k9$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

LOL
-- 
Michel Claveau
news://news.zoo-logique.org/programmation.Paradox





From davidsch at verity.com  Fri Sep 26 18:31:06 2003
From: davidsch at verity.com (David Schnepper)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:31:06 -0700
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DGEBJOLJPLKOEDDMLCGIKEBHCEAA.davidsch@verity.com>

I use cygpath --mixed mode for converting.
http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/using-utils.html#CYGPATH

>From experimenting, a backslash seems required only at
the beginning of a path, eg:

cd /orant          Error

All the following are OK

cd \orant          
cd c:/orant
cd orant/win
cd \orant/win

Dave Schnepper

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Stephen Ferg
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 4:51 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path
separator?


I have a question that is not directly Python-related.  But I thought
I'd ask the most erudite group that I know... :-)

When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
character?

At one time, it was accepted as a truism that Windows (like MS-DOS)
was different from Unix because Windows used the backslash as the path
separator character, whereas Unix used the forward slash.

But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this
is a myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward
or the backward slash as a pathname separator.

I hypothesize that originally Windows accepted only the backslash, and
then at some time it changed to accept the forward slash as well. 
Does anyone know when that change occurred?  Was it with the
introduction of support for long filenames in NT and Win95?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Sep 11 16:01:22 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:01:22 GMT
Subject: PyQt: Can't show PY variable in QT filedialog as initially parameter
References: <43e3984e.0309110814.7d759662@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbm1laj.96g.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <43e3984e.0309110814.7d759662 at posting.google.com>, ulysses wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I use PyQt 3.8 non-commercial version in win32. I get a big question.
> I Can't show PY variable in QT filedialog as initially parameter.
> 
> Code sample is following:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> fileName="test.avi"
> 
> def saveSomething(aString):
>     dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(aString, "*.*", self, "FileDialog")
> or 
>     dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(QString(aString), "*.*",
>                                         self, "FileDialog")
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> these code can't show corrent string.
> 
> If I use string constant.
>    dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName("test.avi", "*.*", self, "FileDialog")
> 
> Dialog show it correctly.
> 


Maybe try:

dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(str(aString), "*.*", self, "FileDialog")




From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 10 20:33:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 01:33:54 +0100
Subject: Heisenberg strikes again!
References: <a82d9823.0309101254.39f8f05@posting.google.com> <nRM7b.311656$Oz4.100417@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <87wucg2mfh.fsf@pobox.com>

"David C. Fox" <davidcfox at post.harvard.edu> writes:
[...]
> Apparently, readline treats an exception in the completer as
> equivalent to returning None.  In fact, you seem to be relying on this
[...]

That's pretty unpleasant.  Naked except:s (with no specific exception)
can cause about the weirdest bugs it's possible to get in Python.  I
think it's worth filing an SF documentation bug (or a patch, better)
about that: set_completer should mention it.

While debugging your completer function, try putting the whole content
of the function in a big try: except:, and use the traceback module:

from traceback import print_exc

def my_completer(text, state):
    try:
        # put everything here
        ...
    except:
        print_exc()


John



From franck.lepoutre at caramail.com  Tue Sep 30 03:03:27 2003
From: franck.lepoutre at caramail.com (francois lepoutre)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:03:27 +0200
Subject: Group4 Tiff Images
References: <mqm8nvsetc3vtddlt05p24jn6bevbnuvuh@4ax.com> <mailman.1064609500.411.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f792925$0$19340$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>

> > Does PIL still not have a Group4 Tiff decoder available?
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2003-July/002354.html

Any chance that G4 Tiff make their way into the standard win32
PIL distribution?

No C compiler here. Just plain python and a hell database work
(including a load of G4 Tiff stored in blob).

Thanx for your great stuff:)

Franck





From paustin at eos.ubc.ca  Sun Sep  7 14:05:55 2003
From: paustin at eos.ubc.ca (Philip Austin)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 11:05:55 -0700
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com> <bjdm21$nr2$1@wheel2.two14.net> <mailman.1062908472.9309.python-list@python.org> <DGB6b.24532$hE5.902016@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <m3smn8qxrw.fsf@gull.eos.ubc.ca>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> 
> Gould is a great writer, even though in his later works he often gives in to
> unstructured rambling (I can of course well sympathize with THAT 
> temptation:-) -- Dawkins, IMHO, isn't, even though in "The selfish gene" he
> does manage (by a mix of his powerful ideas and his dry direct prose) to
> be truly riveting.  My personal choice for Gould's masterpiece is "The
> Mismeasure of Man".  If you do want to see (essentially) Dawkins' ideas
> presented by a truly great writer, try Matt Ridley -- "Genome", "Origins of
> Virtue", "Red Queen", all superb writing (haven't read "Nature via Nurture"
> yet -- I'll wait for the paperback).  Not to be confused with *Mark* Ridley,
> who also writes (quite worthwhile books and antologies) in exactly the
> same field, mind you.


See Allen Orr's New York Review of Books article for a cogent
critique of Ridley's "Nature via Nurture":

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16522

Phil

Associate Professor
Atmospheric Sciences Programme
Department of Earth and Ocean Sciences
The University of British Columbia
6339 Stores Road
Vancouver, BC  V6T 1Z4



From prochak at netzero.net  Mon Sep 22 00:39:09 2003
From: prochak at netzero.net (Erik Lechak)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 21:39:09 -0700
Subject: Where to publish my code
Message-ID: <1f0bdf30.0309212039.16c9bef0@posting.google.com>

Hello All,

I have started working on a graphical programming tool for Python.  It
is similar to Matlab's Simulink (block diagram programming tool).  I
am at a point where I would like to publish the code, but I am not
sure where to put it.

I don't need public CVS, bug list, feature suggestions ... I do need
space on the server to store the application (it just can't point to
my site).  I would like the ability to update my code easily and
frequently.  It would be nice but not necessary to see how many people
have downloaded the code.

So far some solutions are:

1) Vaults of Parnassus - have not tried it yet. The registration
process makes it looks like they don't provide the space for the
application.  I could be wrong?

2) Sourceforge - A little too bloated for my needs.  But they do
provide the space to put my code.  I used them before and it was kind
of a pain to do updates.

3) wxpython-pit.sourceforge.net - Is this a popular site?

Are there other locations?  Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Erik Lechak



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep 20 16:20:16 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 20:20:16 GMT
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bkicq0$vl5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:13:54 GMT, "M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote:

>> "Andrew Wilkinson" <ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk> wrote in message
>> >
>> > def fac(n):
>> >     return reduce(long.__mul__, range(1,n+1), 1L)
>> >
>> > ..would probably be a bit quicker. I'm not sure how much quicker though.
>> >
>> > Anyway, hope this is of some use,
>> > Regards,
>> > Andrew Wilkinson
>
>def factorial_rec(n):
>  if n <= 1:
>    return 1
>  else:
>    return n*factorial_rec(n-1)
>
>def factorial_iter(n):
>  s = 1
>  for i in range(2,n+1):
>    s *= i
>  return s
>
>def factorial_rdc(n):
>  return reduce(long.__mul__, range(1,n+1), 1L)
>
>
>Best times (seconds) on Compaq 5430US, Pentium 4, 1.8GHz, 512MB
>Windows XP, Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>
>Calculations of 950!, 1000 times each (xrange(1000)) --
>
>recursion ..... 8.01
>reduction ..... 4.20
>iteration ..... 3.79
>

You could also let the factorial benefit from its own experience, e.g.,

 >>> def factorial(n, cache={}):
 ...     fn = cache.get(n)
 ...     if fn: print 'got cached %s!'%n; return fn
 ...     if n<2: cache[n]=1; return 1
 ...     return cache.setdefault(n, n*factorial(n-1))
 ...
 >>> factorial(4)
 24
 >>> factorial(4)
 got cached 4!
 24
 >>> factorial(3)
 got cached 3!
 6
 >>> factorial(6)
 got cached 4!
 720
 >>> factorial(7)
 got cached 6!
 5040
 >>> factorial(7)
 got cached 7!
 5040
 >>> factorial(10)
 got cached 7!
 3628800
 >>> factorial(9)
 got cached 9!
 362880

Or more concisely:

 >>> def fact(n, cache={}):
 ...     return cache.get(n) or cache.setdefault(n, n<2 and 1 or n*fact(n-1))
 ...
 >>> for i in range(10): print i, fact(i)
 ...
 0 1
 1 1
 2 2
 3 6
 4 24
 5 120
 6 720
 7 5040
 8 40320
 9 362880

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tcronj at ananzi.co.za  Tue Sep 30 03:46:50 2003
From: tcronj at ananzi.co.za (tertius)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:46:50 +0200
Subject: append special chars with "\"
Message-ID: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za>

Is there a better way to append certain chars in a string with a 
backslash that the example below?

chr = "#$%^&_{}"          # special chars to look out for
str = "123 45^ & 00 0_"   # string to convert
n = ""                    # init new string
for i in str:
     if i in chr:          # if special character in str
         n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
     n+=i
print "old:",str
print "new:",n


Thanks
Tertius




From brucedickey at micron.com  Mon Sep 29 13:14:24 2003
From: brucedickey at micron.com (Bruce Dickey)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:14:24 -0600
Subject: Meta programming question
References: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com> <slrnbncfom.118.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <vnciijiteci947@corp.supernews.com> <ufzih2ali.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <bl9p9f$3an$1@admin-svc.micron.com>

"David Abrahams" <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:ufzih2ali.fsf at boost-consulting.com...
> Bruce Dickey <ceiesa at excite.com> writes:
>
> > Ben Finney wrote:
> >> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:18:15 -0600, Bruce Dickey wrote:
> >>
> >>>I've read a number of the meta progamming articles. I have not found
> >>>what I am looking for. I want to override assignments to variables
> >>>which are in the module namespace (not object members -- no classes
> >>>involved).  Can this be done?
> >> AFAIK, no.  If it were possible, it would be very confusing.
> >> What is it you're trying to achieve?  Perhaps a better alternative
> >> can
> >> be suggested that doesn't break expected behaviour.
> >>
> > I'm investigating the use of Python as a grammar language. I'm trying
> > to achive minimal required syntax/verbage.
>
> Cool! You might take a look at http://spirit.sf.net for some ideas.
> Python's a great language for metaprogramming because of its rich
> syntax.  If you were willing to discourage left-recursion you might go
> with something like:
>
>   expression = term._('+').expression | term._('-').expression
>
> On the other hand, when I had to do something like this I built my own
> "python-like" syntax for the grammar rules and left the semantic
> actions in pure Python, then ran the files through a simple
> preprocessor.  It's just too ugly to write grammar rules in pure
> python without overloaded whitespace.
>
> --
> Dave Abrahams
> Boost Consulting
> www.boost-consulting.com

I'll look into it, thanks. But I had essentially come to the same
conclusion.

Bruce





From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 06:17:15 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:17:15 GMT
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
References: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LIAab.7544$9G2.6227@twister.southeast.rr.com>

I'm not sure if that't the reason, but the binary mode for reading is 'rb'.
Actually, the order of 'r' and 'b' shouldn't matter. But the '+' has a different
meaning: the file should allow "opposite" access as well, e.g. 'r+', 'rb+'
means that you can write to the file too, while 'w+' means: open it for
writing but permit reading too. You can try to say 'rt' for the read/text mode.

Anyway, you program works under Windows XP/Python 2.3 as expected:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Home\Programming\Python\2>py
Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>^Z

C:\Home\Programming\Python\2>test.py
Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:  12
Filepointer:  24
Filepointer:  35
Filepointer:  54

Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:  12
Filepointer:  24
Filepointer:  35
Filepointer:  54

I'm sorry if it doesn't help. The bug must be somewhere else then.

M-a-S


"Peter Abel" <p-abel at t-online.de> wrote in message news:13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60 at posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
> I'm working under W2k with
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>
> I have a file *test_data.txt* with the following content:
> 0123456789
> 0123456789
> abcdefghi
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ
>
> and I work on it with the following python script:
>
> # Open NOT in binary mode
> fp=file('test_data.txt','r')
> a='xx'
> while a:
>   print 'Filepointer: %3d' %  fp.tell()
>   a=fp.readline()
> fp.close()
>
> print
>
> # Open IN binary mode
> fp=file('test_data.txt','r+b')
> a='xx'
> while a:
>   print 'Filepointer: %3d' %  fp.tell()
>   a=fp.readline()
> fp.close()
>
> Now, when test_data.txt is saved in PC-mode with 0xC, 0xA as newline
> it works correct.
> But when I save the file in UNIX-Mode with 0xA as newline,
> my script gives me the following output, where that one with
> the file not opened in binary mode is wrong:
> Filepointer:   0
> Filepointer:   7
> Filepointer:  19
> Filepointer:  30
> Filepointer:  49
> Filepointer:  51
>
> Filepointer:   0
> Filepointer:  11
> Filepointer:  22
> Filepointer:  32
> Filepointer:  50
> Filepointer:  51
>
> When I try this under HP-UX it works fine in both cases.
> So I wonder if the function *tell()* is not correctly implemented under win32.
>
> Regards
> Peter





From webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com  Thu Sep 25 15:44:22 2003
From: webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:44:22 +0200
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
In-Reply-To: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3F734596.80207@beyond-thoughts.com>

Hello,

While I'm +1 for this PEP in general, I still miss a proper definition 
of a "reverse-iteration".

I've previoulsly posted one.


Yours Sincerly,
    Christoph Becker-Freyseng







From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Sep 15 05:54:49 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:54:49 +1000
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
In-Reply-To: <840592e1.0309150033.3622d1f9@posting.google.com>
References: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com> <840592e1.0309150033.3622d1f9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030915095449.GA2226@frobozz>

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 01:33:06AM -0700, Hannu Kankaanp?? wrote:
> Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in message news:<roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003 at reader2.panix.com>...
> > 
> > so I guess I didn't really need the lambda after all :-)
> 
> Lambda is pretty useless in Python, unfortunately. List comprehensions
> reduce their uses with filter and map, and any more complex closure
> has to be written as a named function anyway.. I wish lambda would
> allow statements in them also, so I could do
> 
> func(lambda x: arr[x] = y)

Well, you *could* do func(lambda x: arr.__setitem__(x, y)).  But you
probably shouldn't ;)

-Andrew.





From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Sep 21 08:10:16 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:10:16 +0200
Subject: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?)
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Erlend Fuglum wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm having some trouble sorting lists. I suspect this might have
> something to do with locale settings and/or character
> encoding/unicode.
> 
> Consider the following example, text containing norwegian special
> characters ?, ? and ?.
> 
>>>> liste = ["ola", "erlend", "trygve", "?rlige anders", "Lars",
>>>> "?ksemorderen", "?sne", "Akrobatiske Anna", "leidulf"] liste.sort()
>>>> liste
> ['Akrobatiske Anna', 'Lars', 'erlend', 'leidulf', 'ola', 'trygve',
> '\xc5sne', '\xc6rlige anders', '\xd8ksemorderen']
> 
> There are a couple of issues for me here:
> * The sorting method apparently places strings starting with uppercase
> characters before strings staring with lowercase. I would like to
> treat them them equally when sorting. OK, this could probably be fixed
> by hacking with .toupper() or something, but isn't it possible to
> achieve this in a more elegant way?
> 
> * The norwegian special characters are sorted in a wrong way.
> According to our alphabet the correct order is (...) x, y, z, ?, ? ?.
> Python does it this way: (...) x, y, z, ?, ?, ? ?
> 
> I would really appreciate any help and suggestions - I have been
> fiddling with this mess for quite some time now :-)

Try setting the appropriate locale first:

import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ("no", None))

Then for a case-insensitive sort:

wordlist.sort(locale.strcoll)

should do (disclaimer: all untested).

Peter





From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Sep 22 05:40:06 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:40:06 -0700
Subject: Begineer Question : Global string substitution with re
In-Reply-To: <Law11-F51JfEg897Bqg00010f1e@hotmail.com>
References: <Law11-F51JfEg897Bqg00010f1e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200309220240.06441.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Monday 22 September 2003 02:22 am, peter leonard wrote:
> Hi,
> This is a basic question but I can't figure out what is wron - even after
> reading the documentation. I have a script that normalizes strings. One of
> the steps is to convert all fractions too the tag 'fraction'. For example :
>
> import re
> line = "This is the first ratio, 170/37, and this is the second  170/37 "
>
>
> def normalise(text):
>
>     #Tag fractions
>     fraction = r'(\s+\d+\/\d+\s+)'
>     regfr = re.compile(fraction)
>     text = regfr.sub(" |fraction| ",text)
>
>     #Remove punctuation
>     punc = r'\,'
>     regpunc = re.compile(punc)
>     text = regpunc.sub("",text)
>
>     return text
>
> print line,"\n"
> print normalise(line),"\n"
>
>
> The output from this script is :
>
> This is the first ratio, 170/37, and this is the second  170/37
>
> This is the first ratio 170/37 and this is the second |fraction|
>
>
> I can't understand why only one of the fractions gets substituted. The
> documentation for sub states that the default argument for sub is 0 which
> means replace all occurences. The output of my script should be :
>
> This is the first ratio |fraction| and this is the second |fraction|

The problem is that your regular expression ends with "\s+".  This means
the digits of the fraction *must* be followed by at least one space,
and the digits of your first fraction are followed by a comma and not
a space.

Your re is matching spaces--fraction--spaces.  I'd guess that you
don't really want to match spaces on either side of the fraction.

Gary Herron






From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 30 23:38:51 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:38:51 GMT
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn61legdn9jf56@news.supernews.com> <2c9knv86m1il4ajng85655dm7u5j5b992i@4ax.com> <vnkds7nbjf8420@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <f%reb.10797$NX3.1826@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

John Roth:
> I don't see what exceptions have to do with it. There are three
> special ending cases: with break, empty sequence and sequence
> exhausted. Empty sequence is the only one that isn't handled easily.

Could you give an example of when you would actually use an
'empty_sequence' in the real world?  It's never been a problem
for me (that I can recall) where that distinction was important.

> What I'd like to see is a more general exit clause that also
> applies to the while statement. Something like:
>
> on break:
> on normal_exit:
> on empty_sequence:
> on body_not_executed:

Aren't 'empty_sequence' and 'body_not_executed' identical?

Could you give examples using each one?

What about code which uses a return in the block?  Is
that counted under 'break'?  What about raising an exception?

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Tue Sep 23 13:49:00 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:49:00 +0400
Subject: Sound, time and platform issues
In-Reply-To: <bka4k6$j9a$1@news.peterlink.ru>
References: <bka4k6$j9a$1@news.peterlink.ru>
Message-ID: <bkq127$1lnf$1@news.peterlink.ru>

anton muhin wrote:

[skipped]

thank you everybody for input,
anton.




From bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 08:11:54 2003
From: bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com (Chris Stromberger)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:11:54 GMT
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <01e0nvkhjp8t6dsu34f9g1a9p9v2h0mrrb@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:24:21 -0400, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some 
>point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost 
>certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince 
>them otherwise.
>
>The basic design of the application is object oriented.  I've never used 
>Perl's OO features, so I'm not in a good position to make a comparison 
>of the two languages from an OO point of view.  Can somebody who's done 
>OOP in both Python and Perl help me out?
>
>I certainly know why Perl sucks in general, but for this purpose, I need 
>to specifically compare the OO features of the two.  I'm looking for 
>something more fundamental than "->{} is ugly".

Perl classes: unintuitive, hard to learn, IS ugly!  Good luck.  I work
in a Perl shop.  Only a few of us are on to Python.  Cannot seem to
break through to the Perl Zombies.

http://www.strombergers.com/python/python_perl_class.html
http://www.strombergers.com/python/python_perl_inheritance.html




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep 15 17:39:19 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 23:39:19 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org> <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <m3y8wpwx2w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> writes:

> The point I was trying to make (not in this message but in general) is
> that it would be simple (trivial but tedious) to create a version of
> Python that is thread-safe, and the only reason it is not done is
> because it would break old code. So we are in this GIL world just
> because of that old code... 

This statement is not true. It is not trivial, and it is not being not
done because of old code.

Your approach to support "multi-threading" (add an interpreter state
to all functions) would allow to use different interpreters across
different threads, and those interpreters could not share a single
object.

I doubt that this is what most users would want as "SMP Python", and
it has no significant difference over a multi-process solution.

IOW, it is a useless approach.

> It's like Visual Basic 6, it can't multitask properly either (but
> for other reasons). All other modern languages are
> free-threaded. Before I learned Python I assumed that it is as well.

You mean, like Tcl, Perl, or Ruby? Neither of these has free threading
(plus, your proposed implementation strategy would not offer free
threading, either)

> Only one global variable left (in fact there is Py_None as well). Why
> not get rid of it, then??

Because global variables are not the only problem. Not even the most
important one. Atleast not if you want free threading.

Regards,
Martin



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Sep  7 22:18:05 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:18:05 -0600
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Monday 08 September 2003 12:57 pm, Graham Fawcett wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
> >Many people, me included, won't follow tinyurl links; please provide a
> >standard URL, too.
[snip]
> Thanks for the heads-up re: tinyurl. I realize that some unfriendly folk
> may enjoy sending people to goatse or some similarly unsavoury site; I
> guess I haven't been burned and have enjoyed the brevity of those URLs.

I don't know of any problem with tinyurls - *any* server can provide a "bad" 
redirect; as with any URL whether or not you follow it depends on the context 
and on how much you trust the sender. Maybe Aahz has another reason in mind, 
but I don't know of any reason to stop using them.

-Dave




From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Tue Sep  9 10:58:02 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:58:02 -0400
Subject: What does the keyword 'global' really mean
In-Reply-To: <3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
References: <3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F5DEA7A.2050209@zephyrfalcon.org>

John Dean wrote:

> Hi
> I have been looking through some Python code and I came across the keyword
> 'global'. I have looked through the docs and two or three Python programming
> books for a full explanation of what 'global' really means. Would I be
> correct in assuming that any variable prefixed with the keyword global would
> allow that variable to be accessible across translation units, in other
> words global is equivalent to the 'C' keyword 'extern' ?

It's really quite simple.  Within a function, assignments are local (by default):

 >>> x = 42
 >>> def f():
	x = 3
	print x
	
 >>> f()
3
 >>> x
42

When executing f(), it creates a local variable x with value 3, and prints it. 
  The global variable x is unaffected.

You can change this behavior by using the 'global' statement:

 >>> def g():
	global x
	x = 6
	print x
	
 >>> g()
6
 >>> x
6

'global x' tells Python that the x in this function is global rather than 
local, so 'x = 6' refers to the global variable x we already created.  (As a 
side note, it may seem like you change an existing variable, but what it 
actually does it rebind the name 'x' that already existed in the global namespace.)

As you can see, the global variable x is overwritten and how has a value of 6.

To make matters a bit more confusing, you don't need 'global' to *access* a 
global variable from within a function, only when you assign to it.  This works:

 >>> def h():
	print x
	
 >>> h()
6

There's no local variable x this time, but 'x' obviously refers to the global one.

> Also, does Python have the equivalent of the 'C' keyword 'static'?

No.  There are (clumsy) ways to fake it, but you'll probably be better off 
writing code in a Pythonic way, rather than trying to emulate a C style.

HTH,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Thu Sep 18 11:54:32 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:54:32 +0400
Subject: How to inheritance overwrite non virtual?
In-Reply-To: <slrnbmjjp4.her.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
References: <slrnbmjhjr.gud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <bkchst$q0r$03$1@news.t-online.com> <slrnbmjjp4.her.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <bkckfm$177k$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Axel Straschil wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> 
>>The following will do:
>>
>>class Derived(Base):
>>    def method(self):
>>        return Base.method(self) # call base class method
> 
> 
> I tried in my chield-class:
> class K2(KObject):
> 	def bestCaption(self):
> 		return "Overwritten"
> 	def bestCaptionlong(self):
> 		return KObject.bestCaptionlong(self)
> 
> The Problem ist inside of KObject.bestCaptionlong(self):
>   return self.bestCaption()
> 
> The mother-class is calling the method of the child-class, not
> it own method. I want the mother-method to be called like "the
> chield never was existing", but I find no way.
> 
> Anny other idea?
> 
> Thank, AXEL.

Change
	return self.bestCaption()

to
	return KObject.bestCaption(self)

hth,
anton.	




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Sep 11 13:22:22 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:22:22 -0700
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
Message-ID: <1063300942.3f60af4e8dd38@mcherm.com>

First, thanks to Stephen Horne for bringing up this subject. I learn
more about language design in this newsgroup than anywhere else
(perhaps people who appreciate good language design gravitate to
Python?). 

I started by looking for use cases... where would this proposed
pass-by-reference actually prove useful? Stephen basically found
one good use case:

  I wish to "transfer ownership" of an object that gets passed
  into a method call, and protect against the caller accidently
  continuing to use the object. [So, we'll use a "ref" parameter and
  set the caller's variable to None.]

But "pass by reference" isn't the first idea I have on reading the
use case. I agree with Peter Otten, who writes:

> if copying is costly and only
> sometimes necessary, wrap the item into a copy-on-write proxy for every
> logically distinct but physically identical instance.

Excellent idea! But, how do I write a copy-on-write proxy in Python?
Seems like this would make an excellent cookbook recipie, but I couldn't
figure out how to do it. Proxying is easy, but how does one distinguish
between mutating and non-mutating methods? Does the proxy need to be
customized for each class to be wrapped?

Also I wanted to mention what _I_ saw as the major reason why including
reference parameters in Python would be a bad idea. Stephen himself 
pointed out that without compelling use cases, YAGNI should rule. But
the counter argument of "it will allow unexpected changes whenever I
invoke a method" is completely bogus -- from the beginning Stephen
pointed out that special syntax should be required BY THE CALLER. And
the counter argument of "it will slow things down" is dubious at best
(cPython method calls are already so slow that it's unclear how much
difference this would make).

But my counter argument would be that this breaks one of the elegent
simplicities of Python -- that callables of all kinds are equivalent
and have a very simple interface. A callable receives (in effect)
one tuple of values, and one map of values. That's it. That's a very
simple protocol. Functions and methods are written with a bunch of
ordered, named parameters, (some of which may have defaults), that
are filled in from this tuple and map, and perhaps an overflow tuple
and map for additional inputs. There's no place in this simple
protocol for type declarations (of course), and there would be no
place for tracking whether an argument was "ref" or not. To add even
that one boolean property would significantly complicate callables.

I think that having a small number of protocols that are very simple
yet very powerful is a wonderful way to design a language. Python's
callables are very simple, yet powerful. Iterators are another such
example. Making classes consist primarily of a namespace (__dict__)
was another, although that has gotten much more complicated as
things like descriptors are introduced.

Anyway, just wanted to share some thoughts you had triggered. Thanks
for the ideas.

I'd-cc-Stephen-Horne-directly-but-it'd-be-rejected-as-a-Nigerian-scam lly,

-- Michael Chermside





From gherron at islandtraining.com  Wed Sep 24 02:08:37 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:08:37 -0700
Subject: float problem
In-Reply-To: <bkrai0$50pag$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bkrai0$50pag$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200309232308.37325.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Tuesday 23 September 2003 10:34 pm, Indigo Moon Man wrote:
> for the formula J = I / (12 * 100)  where I is low (like about 8 to 15) I
> get 0.  But when I do it with a calculator it's actually .008333 for
> example if I were 10.  Is there a way I can get python to recognize the
> .008333 instead of it just giving me 0?

You're getting bit by the difference between integer and float
division. 

In versions of python prior to 2.3 (and in 2.3 under normal
circumstances), division of two integers returns an integer and
division of two floats (or a float and an integer )returns a float:
 
>>> 2/3
0
>>> 2/3.0
0.66666666666666663
>>> 2.0/3.0
0.66666666666666663
>>>

So one solution would be to make sure the numbers you are dividing are
floats when you want a float in return.

In future version of Python, there will be two dividion operators:
  / will always return a float
  // will always return an int

In Python 2.3, you can experiment with the future behavior by starting
your program with:
  
>>> from __future__ import division
>>> 2/3
0.66666666666666663
>>> 2//3
0
>>>

So depending on your version of Python, this may be another solution.

Gary Herron






From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Sat Sep  6 10:19:33 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:19:33 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <m3brty8vs2.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
Message-ID: <b4rjlvs00ptpv9pjat02ug0vlahbnd6equ@4ax.com>

On 05 Sep 2003 23:01:49 -0400, Nick Vargish
<nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote:

>Good god, man! The guy's already going to be in the hospital. GEB is
>something that should be tackled at full health. 
>
>Nick

To tell you the truth, one book on my list is also "The Tibetan Book
of Living and Dying" ;-)
Did I mention that it was *nothing* serious (unless the surgeon runs
into an uncatched exception...)

-Patrick



From neelk at cs.cmu.edu  Mon Sep  1 11:58:22 2003
From: neelk at cs.cmu.edu (Neelakantan Krishnaswami)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:58:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Language categories
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <rqy2b.1796$_F1.202013@news20.bellglobal.com> <tyfsmno989n.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <sDJ2b.1909$_F1.271943@news20.bellglobal.com> <vl63bokhnobnee@corp.supernews.com> <bivkor$m70$1@terabinaries.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbl6r4u.vld.neelk@gs3106.sp.cs.cmu.edu>

In article <bivkor$m70$1 at terabinaries.xmission.com>, Thant Tessman wrote:
> Cameron Laird wrote:
>> In article <sDJ2b.1909$_F1.271943 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
>> Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>>>"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(Lisp, Dylan, Haskell, ocaml, or some other functional programming
>>>>>language).
>> 
>> Someone needs to talk with the googlers; REBOL and Dylan
>> are not functional languages.  And Lisp ... well, Lisp is
>> universal, so let's let that pass.
> 
> Not to re-open that can o' worms, but last time I looked, Dylan 
> supported functional programming style just fine. If memory serves, its 
> word for 'lambda' is 'method.' I've never heard of REBOL.

Yeah, Dylan is basically Scheme + CLOS, with a Modula-style syntax. So
it's a functional language.

REBOL is more interesting. The original interpreter was written by Joe
Marshall, and he wrote it so that it supported lexically-scoped
closures (and maybe tail-recursion too?). This makes it count as an
fpl, in my book. However, the second version was a rewrite that lost
those features, and as a result it's not an fpl anymore.


-- 
Neel Krishnaswami
neelk at cs.cmu.edu



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Sep 26 20:41:08 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:41:08 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>
 <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:51:05 -0400, David Abrahams
> <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:
>
>>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>>
>>> David Abrahams wrote:
>>>    ...
>>>> Also, the idea of denying tuples the ability to reverse iterate seems
>>>> arbitrary and capricious.
>>>
>>> Sure, but so is denying them, e.g., non-mutating methods such as
>>> .index() and .count().
>>
>>Not IMO. Immutability is a very useful trait.
>
> Yes - and perfectly consistent with having *NON*-mutating methods such
> as .index() and .count()  ;-)

Right.  Oops, I misread.

> I always assumed that these were considered inconsistent with normal
> use of tuples (which certainly I rarely need to get 'index' or
> 'count'-like results from).

I don't see why not.

> Actually, they even seem a little odd in list, to be honest. I'd have
> functions, not necessarily even in __builtins__, which work on any
> sequence. They just don't seem like everyday operations that should be
> built into the object.

It's probably just for optimization purposes.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Wed Sep 24 05:20:00 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:20:00 +0200
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
References: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rbo2nv0k4q5ctfa12q2rd6bi6guoa5igi9@4ax.com>

Nick Keighley:
>is there a known problem with getting a Python based socket program to 
>communicate with a C based socket program?

No. Client and server are completely independent and can be implemented in
any language.

They must speak the same application level protocol of course, on top of
TCP/IP.

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 19 11:23:54 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:23:54 -0500
Subject: Webware and memory problem!
In-Reply-To: <tf1mmv019lp8cucqvcgtf5v9qi2svv4n36@4ax.com>
References: <tf1mmv019lp8cucqvcgtf5v9qi2svv4n36@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16235.8074.974349.489833@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    jz> How much memory WebKit should normally take??? As I can see, every
    jz> WebKit daemon takes over 40MB (sic!) of RAM. WebKit lauches 10
    jz> daemons during startup, so I need over 400MB for WebKit alone! Is it
    jz> normal or I have something wrong configured? (used RedHat7 and
    jz> Webware CVS 2003-09-12)

Most of that 40MB is probably shared between all processes (C libraries,
etc).  On the other hand, the Python bytecode, which should be sharable, is
almost certainly loaded into the interpreter's data space, so isn't shared.
I'd be surprised if it was very much of the total memory usage, however.

Skip




From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 10:25:18 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 15:25:18 +0100
Subject: in Ram database?
References: <mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ekyvcnxt.fsf@pobox.com>

"John D." <lists at webcrunchers.com> writes:
[...]
> Is such a database available?   If so,  who is working on it,  
> or where is it?    

Gadfly, PySQLite.


> I've heard that Python supports a stand-alone database.   I looked
> for it in the Docs,  and see the "dbm" module.   I haven't found
> any examples of code,  so don't know how to use them.   I'm one
> of those guys that learn through examples,  and have very little
> luck in figuring out how to use anything unless I can see examples
> of their use.

These sorts of dbs aren't in-memory.  Still, if you want to find some
simple examples, I'm sure a few queries like 'group:comp.lang.python
bsddb example' in Google Groups will find something.


> My idea is that ALL datums would be Python Dictionary objects,  so
> not only can you store data,  but python objects as well.

Sounds like you might want ZODB (again, not in-memory).  It's more of
an object persistence system + BTrees than it is a DBMS, since there's
no query system.  IndexedCatalog is a query system built on top of
ZODB, but it's quite feasible to roll your own simple
application-specific queries with BTrees (and the other data
structures it provides).  BTrees are rather like dictionaries, but
they support on-demand loading of data, so not everything has to be in
memory at once.


> I kinda like the idea of being able to define smaller tables as
> "in-memory" types,  and the really large massive ones in other forms
> managed by mySQL, PostGres, or bsddb3 databases.

That sounds like a recipe for extra work to me.  If you need a big
DBMS, use that for everything.


John



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 12:26:41 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:26:41 +0300
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4bh3nv0esljf8pkegog0lc4lmg87siv1oc@4ax.com>

On 23 Sep 2003 18:04:33 -0700, rumours say that mensanator at aol.com
(mensanator) might have written:

[snipped]
>But if I want to know how many digits 2**64 has, I can't
>just do

If only math.log(2**64)/math.log(10) worked with longs without
converting them into floats first... :(
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 12 03:48:28 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:48:28 +0200
Subject: [newbie] File handle destroyed before pending write is executed?
References: <3f6172be.1493111@news.tijd.com>
Message-ID: <bjrtos$brd$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Pieter Lust wrote:

> # main module
> import logmodule
> 
> mylog = logmodule.logfile()
> mylog.enter('something')
> # pass
> # end main module
> 
> # logmodule
> class logfile:
> def __init__(self):
> self.fh = file('log.txt', 'w')
> def __del__(self):
> self.fh.close()
> def enter(self, text):
> self.fh.write('%s\n' % text)
> # end logmodule
> 
> After running the main module, log.txt was empty, though no exceptions
> were raised. To get the text into the file, I had to add the pass
> statement that's commented out above.
> 
> In debug mode, the line cursor jumps from the last line of the main
> module into the __del__() method of the logmodule, but not into the
> enter() method.
> 

Your code works here. I wuuld delete all logmodule.pyc files in your path
and restart the IDE. Maybe there is something out of sync.

(By the way, I think the __del__() method is superfluous)

Peter




From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep 16 13:06:00 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:06:00 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Brian Quinlan wrote:
>>The point I was trying to make (not in this message but in general) is
>>that it would be simple (trivial but tedious) to create a version of
>>Python that is thread-safe, and the only reason it is not done is
>>because it would break old code. 
> 
> Actually, it would be reasonably difficult. If you don't agree why not
> spend a weekend implementing it and see how robust your implementation
> is? Also, adding object-level locking would involve a huge performance
> penalty. 

There is no object-level locking in my proposal. Just independent 
free-threaded interpreters, which don't see the objects of other 
interpreters at all.

There could be an extra global interpreter state for shared-memory 
object access. Accessing this would always be synchronized, but only 
this. Python would automatically copy data from this state to 
thread-local state and back when needed. This would require a special 
syntax for variables in global state:

synchronize a = "asdf"

>>Only one global variable left (in fact there is Py_None as well). Why
>>not get rid of it, then??
> 
> I think that you must be missing something... There is nothing special
> about Py_None. The number 5 is globally shared just like Py_None is.
> This is a performance optimization used to prevent lots of small numbers
> from being allocated and destroyed all the time.

Py_None is special because it is shared between all interpreters, it is 
global. Py_None is defined as:

#define Py_None (&_Py_NoneStruct)

PyObject _Py_NoneStruct = {
	PyObject_HEAD_INIT(&PyNone_Type)
};

static PyTypeObject PyNone_Type = {
	PyObject_HEAD_INIT(&PyType_Type)
	0,
	"NoneType",
	0,
	0,
	(destructor)none_dealloc,	     /*tp_dealloc*/ /*never called*/
	0,		/*tp_print*/
	0,		/*tp_getattr*/
	0,		/*tp_setattr*/
	0,		/*tp_compare*/
	(reprfunc)none_repr, /*tp_repr*/
	0,		/*tp_as_number*/
	0,		/*tp_as_sequence*/
	0,		/*tp_as_mapping*/
	0,		/*tp_hash */
};

 From the above we see that when Py_None reference count reaches zero, a 
destructor none_dealloc is called.

static void
none_dealloc(PyObject* ignore)
{
	/* This should never get called, but we also don't want to SEGV if
	 * we accidently decref None out of existance.
	 */
	Py_FatalError("deallocating None");
}

This makes no sense at all. Why Py_FatalError? It would be better to have

static void
none_dealloc(PyObject* ignore)
{
}

so that it is not necessary to call Py_INCREF(Py_None) 
Py_DECREF(Py_None) at all. Guess how many times these are called in 
Python C API? Py_INCREF is called 2001 times and Py_DECREF two times.

OK, Python also calls _Py_ForgetReference on the object when it is 
freed, so that something else should be changed here as well. 
_Py_ForgetReference unlinks the object from double linked list.

By changing the way how Py_None is freed (by doing nothing) Python would 
get simpler and faster. And of course you could give Py_None a large 
reference count on startup, so that the deallocator is never actually 
called (even if it does nothing).

If there are more of these static objects, like number 5 as you said, 
then the destructor for these should be changed as well, so that they 
are never freed. This way the independent free-threaded interpreters 
don't have to worry about these objects.

Harri




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Sep 11 20:25:33 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:25:33 -0700
Subject: Web server with Python
In-Reply-To: <3f60fa3d-a26c0463-9b36-4152-a986-61060ca18017@news.szn.dk>
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <3f60fa3d-a26c0463-9b36-4152-a986-61060ca18017@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <20030912002532.GG2085@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Klaus Alexander Seistrup (spam at magnetic-ink.dk):
> Thomas Weholt wrote:
> 
> >> - must be able to use Python 2.3 to create dynamic pages
> >
> > If you can use anything found on www.zope.org under resource and
> > like to do everything in a webpage, not doing much programming
> > yourself, then Zope might be the thing.
> 
> However, Zope still doesn't run on Python 2.3, does it?

Also true! Beta versions recommend/require 2.2.3, and current
production last time I checked (last week? week before?) requires
2.1.3 instead.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Overspecialize and you breed in weakness.
<geoff at gerrietts net>     It's slow death." -- Maj. Motoko Kusanagi
http://www.gerrietts.net                          (Ghost in the Shell)




From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Thu Sep 11 15:58:50 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:58:50 +0200
Subject: mod_python installation
References: <kue1mv4fer2lncl8r17q2vmhi30drvme2k@4ax.com> <ss38b.700$8g2.400@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <7hk1mv4jd83ie754rgfrk8pf5u9tchiknn@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:48:56 GMT, "Dave Benjamin" <dave at 3dex.com> wrote:

>This might be a dumb question, but did you check the error log or the access
>log? What happens when you try to start apache from the command line? (is
>that possible in Windows? I've never tried...)

I looked at the error log.

In the Windows Event Log, I found the following:
=======================================
Application log:

The Apache service named  reported the following error:
Cannot load C:/Programs/Apache/Apache2/modules/mod_python.so into
server: The specified module could not be found.     .

The Apache service named  reported the following error:
Syntax error on line 173 of C:/Programs/Apache/Apache2/conf/httpd.conf:

[Line 173 is "LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so"]
========================================
System log:.

The Apache2 service terminated with service-specific error 1 (0x1).
========================================

My modules folder looks like this:
 Directory of C:\Programs\Apache\Apache2\modules

11/09/2003  21:48    <DIR>          .
11/09/2003  21:48    <DIR>          ..
08/07/2003  22:02            24?653 mod_access.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?658 mod_actions.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?656 mod_alias.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?658 mod_asis.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?651 mod_auth.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?656 mod_auth_anon.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?655 mod_auth_dbm.so
08/07/2003  22:02            32?850 mod_auth_digest.so
08/07/2003  22:02            32?857 mod_auth_ldap.so
08/07/2003  22:02            32?855 mod_autoindex.so
08/07/2003  22:02            28?757 mod_cache.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?661 mod_cern_meta.so
08/07/2003  22:02            28?753 mod_cgi.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?668 mod_charset_lite.so
08/07/2003  22:02            77?903 mod_dav.so
08/07/2003  22:02            45?136 mod_dav_fs.so
08/07/2003  22:02            57?426 mod_deflate.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?654 mod_dir.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?666 mod_disk_cache.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?655 mod_env.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?659 mod_expires.so
08/07/2003  22:02            28?757 mod_ext_filter.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?659 mod_file_cache.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?659 mod_headers.so
08/07/2003  22:02            28?751 mod_imap.so
08/07/2003  22:02            41?042 mod_include.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?658 mod_info.so
08/07/2003  22:02            32?851 mod_isapi.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?656 mod_logio.so
08/07/2003  22:02            28?757 mod_log_config.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?665 mod_mem_cache.so
08/07/2003  22:02            28?748 mod_mime.so
08/07/2003  22:02            32?854 mod_mime_magic.so
08/07/2003  22:02            36?950 mod_negotiation.so
08/07/2003  22:02            41?038 mod_proxy.so
08/07/2003  22:02            20?566 mod_proxy_connect.so
08/07/2003  22:02            28?754 mod_proxy_ftp.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?659 mod_proxy_http.so
14/03/2003  13:06           110?592 mod_python.so
08/07/2003  22:02            57?426 mod_rewrite.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?660 mod_setenvif.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?658 mod_speling.so
08/07/2003  22:02            28?756 mod_status.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?661 mod_unique_id.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?658 mod_userdir.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?661 mod_usertrack.so
08/07/2003  22:02            24?662 mod_vhost_alias.so
08/07/2003  22:02            36?949 util_ldap.so
              48 File(s)      1?535?794 bytes
               2 Dir(s)  38?969?270?272 bytes free

Regards,
-PU



From knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk  Fri Sep  5 12:59:30 2003
From: knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk (Martin Christensen)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:59:30 +0200
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bj8f4v$8kl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
 <87brtzu5ak.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bjabc7$mbm$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87znhjw4r1.fsf@gvdnet.dk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Smith <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
Duncan> Computer Science at Aalborg I see.  A Bayes net man perchance?
Duncan> I hope Uffe, Kristian et al are well. :-)

Haha! If you're talking about the guys I'm thinking of, I just came
home from a lovely Friday afternoon beer with them. :-) And yes, I
happen to be doing a project involving Bayesian networks, but I'm
originally a database guy. To keep it relevant, I did my masters
thesis implementation stuff in Python and am very happy I did.

Martin

- -- 
Homepage:       http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
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KG0AoOeVKunYa0Ud/9UI/C99JaihY9bM
=252w
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From pweldon at mindspring.com  Sat Sep 20 00:10:08 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:10:08 GMT
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
Message-ID: <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Even faster is a look-up table with what, seventy entries?   That would go
up to an integer with 100 digits, probably more than any application would
need, and certainly the fastest possible method.

Phil Weldon, pweldon at minspring.com

"Andrew Wilkinson" <ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314 at mercury.nildram.net...
> Rogue9 wrote:
>
> > Pardon me but could anyone enlighten me if python2.2 has a math function
> > to call to do factorials of integers?If not then is there a code snippet
> > for doing such a thing available?I tried to write some code for this
> > myself but with little success.
> > Thanks
> > Lol
>
> Hi,
>
> The other replies give a much more readable way of getting the factorial,
> but if you're looking for the ultimate in speed then...
>
> def fac(n):
>     return reduce(long.__mul__, range(1,n+1), 1L)
>
> ..would probably be a bit quicker. I'm not sure how much quicker though.
>
> Anyway, hope this is of some use,
> Regards,
> Andrew Wilkinson





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 18:24:20 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:24:20 +0300
Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)
References: <mailman.1063741374.30034.python-list@python.org> <%PK9b.13530$x21.9926@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <js2fmv4a19aajopm5ph0he94uqj8btd5c7@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:58:35 GMT, rumours say that "M-a-S"
<NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> might have written:

>I thought somebody might have already done it w/o Pwm, with Tkinter only.
>Bad luck.

Idle has tooltips, and it's Tkinter only.  You already have the code;
maybe ToolTip.py would be a good start :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 02:22:17 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 23:22:17 -0700
Subject: Money data type
References: <mailman.1063823424.16083.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0309171738.3b3becda@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309172222.689f0c7d@posting.google.com>

afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere) wrote in message news:<38ec68a6.0309171738.3b3becda at posting.google.com>...
>
>     def __repr__ (self) :
>         return "$%.2f" % self


Umm ...you might want to do the same to __str__ if you want to print ... :/



From ray at rays-web.com  Thu Sep 18 05:43:57 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:43:57 GMT
Subject: DLL info
In-Reply-To: <b03da24326888105a23a49b85f0660bb@news.meganetnews.com>
References: <b03da24326888105a23a49b85f0660bb@news.meganetnews.com>
Message-ID: <3f697e27@news.syd.ip.net.au>

Ladv?nszky K?roly wrote:
> Could someone suggest me how to gather various information (version number
> etc.) from a Windows DLL?
> Thanks for any help,
> 
> K?roly

Find the DLL in Windows Explorer, right click on the dll, and select 
properties.  There should be a Version tab (I think ... haven't booted 
my Windows PC in awhile).

For a utility to give you lots more info see:
http://www.dependencywalker.com/

Ray Smith





From bgporter at artlogic.com  Thu Sep 11 20:40:07 2003
From: bgporter at artlogic.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:40:07 -0400
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
In-Reply-To: <2E78b.1002$8g2.829@news1.central.cox.net>
References: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com> <2E78b.1002$8g2.829@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <E5WcnXLOoPRMiPyiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

Dave Benjamin wrote:
> 
> Another way to set up an RPC interface between Flash and Python would be to
> use plain old HTTP GET/POST, with either urlencoded key-value pairs or WDDX
> as a serialization format. (PyXML supports WDDX, as does PHP, as does Flash
> if you Google around for the wddx.as script).
> 
We've been using this XML-RPC library for Flash 
http://members.netmadeira.com/killer/xmlrpc/

...and have found that it serves our needs just fine.




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Sep 24 02:14:05 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:14:05 +0200
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
In-Reply-To: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
References: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f71361f$0$97182$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

R. Alan Monroe wrote:


> I intend to write both client and server in Python, and my main goal 
> in the first cut is speed. Suggestions?

Why do you need thousand of rows at the client? Normally you would get 
the results in batches, so that you only transfer at most a few hundred 
at a time to the client.

I am not saying that you never need to do it. It's just rare. So perhaps 
all you need is a change in user-interface?

Anyhoo you can reduce the number of queries/connections to get better 
speed. It is easy to inadvertently make queries like:

for i in range(1000):
     "select * from table1 where some_number=i;"

Instead of:
     "select * from table1 where some_number=<1000;"

Normally it is not as simple as this, but the basic problem is the same.

But if your problem is that you transfer the data over the wire in xml 
format and that is too slow, you need to use another format. XML 
conversion can have a lot of overhead. Especially if it is many thousand 
rows.

Why not let the client ask directly if it is faster?

But if you can bring down the number of rows, using xml might not be a 
problem at all.



regards Max M




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Sep 17 21:38:55 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 18:38:55 -0700
Subject: Money data type
References: <mailman.1063823424.16083.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309171738.3b3becda@posting.google.com>

"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063823424.16083.python-list at python.org>...
> Can't find it.
> 
> I mean something like:
> 
> >> m1 = Money(decimal=2)
> >> m2 = Money(decimal=2)
> >> m1.value = 3.20
> >> m2.value = 2.15
> >> print m1 + m2
> 5.35
> 
> 5.35! Not 5.3500000000000001 neither 5.34999999999999999999.
> 
> I think this is not a rare thing, but I can't find it in the standar library
> neither the package index.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> .	Facundo

If it's merely a matter of representing itself you could do something
blindingly simple like:

class Dollars (float) :

    def __repr__ (self) :
        return "$%.2f" % self

    def __add__ (self, other) :
        return Dollars(float.__add__(self, other))

    #and so on for the other mathematical operators ...

>>> a = Dollars(125.45)
>>> a
$125.45
>>> a + 25.6667
$151.12
>>> 


Note this is _not_ to your spec (ie output includes a currency symbol
and input is simply a float).



From javier_ruere at HotPOP.com  Mon Sep  1 02:47:05 2003
From: javier_ruere at HotPOP.com (Javier Ruere)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 03:47:05 -0300
Subject: My script is taking 12 hours+ any suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <20030831220923.337050a0.jiba@tuxfamily.org>
References: <3f4ff9f8$0$23588$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au> <20030831220923.337050a0.jiba@tuxfamily.org>
Message-ID: <3F52EB69.1050708@HotPOP.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jiba wrote:

> If not, the solution is to use a rounded normal as key. E.g. use
'round(x * 100.0) / 100.0' instead of x for an (approximative) 0.01
precision, and proceed similarly with y and z.

  round can round to a given precition using the second optional
argument so this two expressions would be equivalent:

round(x*100)/100.0 == round(x, 2)

  Javier

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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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07hZL8F2ZzF2lyyZDRLHcZE=
=upl+
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From bkc at Murkworks.com  Fri Sep 26 14:33:33 2003
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:33:33 -0400
Subject: py2exe, 2.3 and services (raising flag again)
Message-ID: <bl20pu$mt2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Now that Thomas is back from vacation ;-)

I cannot get the example service to work using Python 2.3 and the latest
released py2exe (or the cvs version) on Win2k SP3. I can run the sample
service .py file ok, but once it's inside a py2exe generated exe.. no
working. The error in the event log is:

The description for Event ID ( 240 ) in Source ( MyService ) cannot be
found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or
message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. The following
information is part of the event: 1063, The service process could not
connect to the service controller..


I'm looking for a suggestion or two on how I can start debugging this
problem. How do you debug py2exe generated .exe's? I have VC++ 6.0


--
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5

_







From max at fr.fm  Wed Sep 17 04:32:02 2003
From: max at fr.fm (Maxime Biais)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:32:02 +0200
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
Message-ID: <20030917103202.0d90966a.max@fr.fm>

Hello,

I heard that is possible to replace %(word) in a string with a dictionary
containing { "word" : "replaced word" } with a function or a builtin from
the python library.

For example with the string: "hello, %(word1) %(word2) !" and the
dictionary: {"word1" : "python", "word2" : "lovers"} the final string
would be: "hello python lovers"

For the moment i use this code but i want something more pythonic:

str: 
var_dic: 

for i in var_dic:
        myre = re.compile("(.*)(\%\(%s\))(.*)" % i, re.IGNORECASE)
        re_res = myre.match(str)
        if re_res:
            str = re_res.group(1) + var_dic[i] + re_res.group(3)


-- 
Maxime Biais



From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Thu Sep  4 14:16:59 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:16:59 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
Message-ID: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>

Hi All,

I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am 
trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across 
anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like 
to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
few years, about Python or IT in general.

-Patrick



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep  8 10:13:06 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:13:06 -0600
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
In-Reply-To: <Xns93F093815E0CDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122>
 <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com>
 <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122>
 <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com>
 <6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253>
 <3F5C7270.1020001@ghaering.de>
 <mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list@python.org>
 <Xns93F093815E0CDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030908080938.03c3f110@66.28.54.253>

At 07:31 AM 9/8/2003, Duncan Booth wrote:

>Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in
>news:mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list at python.org:
>
> > That's a good start. I presume I need to use codecs.open(filename,
> > mode[, encoding[, errors[, buffering]]]) to read the file. What is the
> > actual value of the "encoding[" parameter for "Little-endian UTF-16
> > Unicode character data, with CR line terminators"
>
>Try:
>
>  myFile = codecs.open(filename, "r", "utf16")
>
>If the file starts with a UTF-16 marker (either little or big endian) it
>will be read correctly. If it doesn't start with either marker reading from
>it will throw a UnicodeError.

Interesting error:

UniCodeError: UTF-16 decoding error: truncated data

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From http  Mon Sep 29 00:00:41 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 21:00:41 -0700
Subject: sendmsg operation on unix socket?
Message-ID: <7xbrt41bx2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

I don't see the sendmsg operation in socket.py.  Is it missing?
I need to find the uid of a process sending messages to a unix
domain socket.  Is there another way to do that?

Thanks.



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep  4 17:09:09 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:09:09 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com>

"John J. Lee" wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> [...]
> > This sounds like a good opportunity to read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
> > Maintenance" (by Robert Pirsig) if you have not already.  It's certainly
> > about IT, and ties into "The Zen of Python" (by Tim Peters) nicely, too. :-)
> 
> Don't read it, it's a pile of junk.  :-)  IMNSHO.

Are you trying to start the book-burning thread again? :-)

-Peter



From blunck at gst.com  Wed Sep 17 00:33:21 2003
From: blunck at gst.com (Christopher Blunck)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:33:21 -0400
Subject: Hurricane Isabel
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.17.04.33.20.657937@gst.com>

This is shameless self promotion, so please discard it if you're 
offended.  But if you're a geek maybe you'll read on . . .


My family owns a house on the Outer Banks of North Carolina.  On top 
of our house is a Davis Vantage Pro weather station.  I have a daemon
running every minute capturing weather data into a MySQL database.   
The data is exported to the world via a SOAP interface.

I'm posting this because Hurricane Isabel is expected to make landfall
within a day or two, and I thought there might be folks out there
that would be interested in taking a look at up-to-the-minute weather
conditions (well, at least until the power fails :))

The URL for my project page is:
  http://meta-tools.sf.net/wxnet

There are installation instructions and screenshots available.


It should be noted that the client I've written can also display
buoy data from the National Weather Service.  If you look cruise over
to http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/ you'll find the buoys current served.

When launching the WeatherNet client, use a URL of the format:
  http://wxnet.dnsalias.com/buoys/number/number.wsdl

For example, to look at buoy 41002 (250 NM east of Charleston SC), use:
  http://wxnet.dnsalias.com/buoys/41002/41002.wsdl


It should be noted that this code is based off of ZSI and wouldn't be
possible without Rich's code.  Thanks Rich! :)



-c



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 15 09:20:42 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:20:42 -0400
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <bk2okk$nrhg9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <38ec68a6.0309142310.30c09f9f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F65BCAA.EE8E2A45@engcorp.com>

Asun Friere wrote:
> 
> Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> > while 1:
> >     foo = getmore()
> >     if not foo:
> >         break
> >     process(foo)
> 
> I am alone in feeling some slight unease at the sight of "while 1: ...
> break"?  I know this is considered somewhat pythonic, but apart from
> the fact that there is only a single assignment statement is there
> really any advantage to be gained by doing it this way?  It seems to
> be trading one aesthetic disadvantage for another, and imho, a
> marginally less legible one.

There is a distinct advantage in the above, over the form with
a duplicated line, and it's nothing to do with aesthetics.  Sure,
they both may be ugly to you (but they feel quite simple and thus
elegant to some experienced Python programmers), but the real issue
is that the one has the duplicated assignment and is therefore prone
to maintenance problems.  This fact alone far outweighs any aesthetic
consideration, and wholly justifies the above form.  

If you are really offended, use a wrapper of some kind as others have
shown.

-Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 22 04:49:33 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:49:33 +0200
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> If this did work, then you can use the DSU pattern like so:
>
> decorated_wordlist = [(locale.strxfrm(w), w) for w in wordlist]
> decorated_wordlist.sort()
> wordlist[:] = [i[1] for i in decorated_wordlist]

Everytime that someone posts a naive list.sort(compare), the DSU pattern is
proposed to improve execution speed.

So maybe it's about time to change the sort() method to support a second
argument

list.sort(compare=None, mapping=None)

that, if provided, would perform the DSU magic. Or was that already proposed
and rejected?

Peter



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep  1 12:33:18 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:33:18 -0500
Subject: bsddb read-only requires rw access to close?
In-Reply-To: <70df36e9.0308291220.527fcdfc@posting.google.com>
References: <70df36e9.0308291220.527fcdfc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16211.29902.304243.811806@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Harry> ... but if I change to read-only access (as in permissions on file):

    >>>> a = bsddb.btopen("c:/sharedrw/db/npanxx2pseudo.db", "r")
    >>>> a.close()

    Harry>         Traceback (most recent call last):
    Harry>           File "<pyshell#30>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    Harry>             a.close()
    Harry>           File "C:\Python23\lib\bsddb\__init__.py", line 101, in close
    Harry>             v = self.db.close()
    Harry>         DBPermissionsError: (1, 'Operation not permitted')

    Harry> Performing a close() with read/write access with file opened "r" does
    Harry> not change the last-modified time/date.

    Harry> Is this a bug?

Dunno.  Works for me on Mac OS X:

    % python
    Python 2.4a0 (#77, Aug 11 2003, 11:19:14) 
    [GCC 3.1 20020420 (prerelease)] on darwin
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import bsddb
    >>> db = bsddb.btopen("foo.bt", "c")
    >>> db['1'] = '1'
    >>> db.close()
    >>> 
    % chmod 444 foo.bt
    % python
    Python 2.4a0 (#77, Aug 11 2003, 11:19:14) 
    [GCC 3.1 20020420 (prerelease)] on darwin
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import bsddb
    >>> db = bsddb.btopen("foo.bt", "r")
    >>> db.close()
    >>> 

Skip




From jblazi at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 30 01:49:43 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:49:43 +0200
Subject: Using TCP/IP
References: <pan.2003.09.29.19.19.26.610000@hotmail.com> <bmehnv49l8tm3qhtjjj3pe53q0ovd5t9kv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.30.05.49.41.657000@hotmail.com>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:09:15 +0300, Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou wrote:

> import socket
> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())

Thx. But this does not seem to work correctly. When I start the program
and print the result, I get an IP-address but it is not the correct one
i.e. not the one I am currently using.

JB


----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Sep 17 07:09:15 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 13:09:15 +0200
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <mailman.1063223955.7295.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfhe3bllic.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> writes:

> Also reminiscent (a long time ago) someone proposed a COME FROM
> statement for FORTRAN to be the inverse of GO TO.

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ComeFrom



From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Wed Sep 17 12:04:19 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:04:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: mx.DateTime bogus warning: "float where int expected"
Message-ID: <33436.199.169.240.132.1063814659.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-


I'm getting a "DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float"
warning with mx.DateTime and I can't figure out why.  Can anyone help me
out?

This code:

import mx.DateTime

class xLabeller:
    def __init__(self, firstdate,fmt='%B, %Y'):
        self.firstdate = firstdate
        self.fmt = fmt
        self.mm = mx.DateTime.RelativeDateTime(months=1)
    def __call__(self, i):
        dt = self.firstdate + self.mm * int(i)
        return dt.Format(self.fmt)

nov99 = mx.DateTime.Date(int(1999), int(11))

xl = xLabeller(nov99)
print "xl2:"
print xl(int(3))

Produces this warning:

>>> ================================ RESTART ===========
>>>
xl2:
C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\DateTime.py:585:
DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float
  return DateTime(year, month, 1) + \
February, 2000

What is the story?  I've wrapped every number in my program with int().  I
can't figure out what's triggering the warning.

And, even stranger, the whole thing works fine at the python shell:

>>> import mx.DateTime
>>> mm = mx.DateTime.RelativeDateTime(months=1)
>>> nov99
<DateTime object for '1999-11-01 00:00:00.00' at 98dc20>
>>> dt = nov99 + mm * 3
>>> dt.Format('%b, %y')
'Feb, 00'
>>>

What am I doing wrong?


Thanks for the help.




From mark at hahnca.com  Mon Sep 15 19:12:36 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:12:36 -0700
Subject: wanted($):  mac and linux python gui coders for porting
Message-ID: <EHr9b.36540$n94.18214@fed1read04>

(I apologize in advance if this is not an appropriate posting)

I have written a simple windows shareware app, EzPicMailer, in Python 2.3,
wxPython 2.4.1, and PIL 1.1.4  that lets computer novices find photo files,
edit them, and mail them, all in one simple app.  Everyone is encouraged to
check out my beta version at http://EzPicMailer.com.

I wrote it to be cross-platform except for a small amout of windows code to
do the system beep and to find the desktop and home folders.

Now I need a Mac programmer and a Linux programmer to port to these
environments for me.  I'm new to shareware but I'm guessing that paying 10%
of gross license receipts would be fair.  I put in close to 200 hours into
the app and I'm assuming that 20 hours to do a decent looking port would be
about right, which gives 10% of the effort.  Let me know if I'm off-base
here.

You will also be responsible for a second line of support for your platform.
In other words you will need to fix problems particular to your platform to
keep your royalty flow.  You will not have to talk to customers though.
That is what I mean by second-line.

If you are interested, please tell me about yourself and point me to some of
your existing work with GUI's.






From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep  2 13:22:23 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:22:23 +0300
Subject: Simple question: How to pass a C++ class reference to a callback?
In-Reply-To: <aB-dnSBw_cewCsmiXTWJiw@comcast.com>
References: <17fbc98a.0309020423.11ac7b8d@posting.google.com> <aB-dnSBw_cewCsmiXTWJiw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <lj45b.2298$ZB4.1613@reader1.news.jippii.net>

I read it twice, but I'm not sure that I got it.

You mean that I add something like:

static PyObject*
emb_Set(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
     char *key, *value;
     if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &key, &value))
         return NULL;
     // how the get the class instance pointer:
     PyObject *c_api_object = PyObject_GetAttrString(self, "_C_API");
     if (c_api_object) {
         if (PyCObject_Check(c_api_object)) {
             myClass *p = (myClass *)PyCObject_AsVoidPtr(c_api_object); 

             // do something with the C++ class here
         }
         Py_DECREF(c_api_object);
     }
     Py_INCREF(Py_None);
     return Py_None;
}

And in C++ class:

     Py_Initialize();
     PyObject *m = Py_InitModule("test", EmbMethods);
     // ??
     PyObject *c_api_object = PyCObject_FromVoidPtr((void *)this, NULL);
     if (c_api_object) {
         PyModule_AddObject(m, "_C_API", c_api_object);
         PyRun_SimpleString(script);
     }
     Py_Finalize();



T. Panbru wrote:

> Try encapsulating your C++ class reference in a CObject, using:
> 
>     PyObject* PyCObject_FromVoidPtr( void* cobj, void (*destr)(void *))
>     void* PyCObject_AsVoidPtr( PyObject* self)
> 
> and so forth, to go back and forth between the C++ and Python realms.
> 
> Check out the Python docs at:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/api/cObjects.html
> 
> Tim
> 
>  > Harri Pesonen wrote:
> 
>> How do I pass the calling C++ class reference (or anything) to a 
>> callback?
>> My code is:
>>
>> static PyObject*
>> emb_Set(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
>> {
>>     char *key, *value;
>>     if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &key, &value))
>>         return NULL;
>>     // do something with the C++ class here
>>     // how the get the class instance pointer?
>>     Py_INCREF(Py_None);
>>     return Py_None;
>> }
>>
>> static PyMethodDef EmbMethods[] = {
>>     {"Set", emb_Set, METH_VARARGS, "Sets the given variable."},
>>     {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
>> };
>>
>> in C++ class:
>>
>>     Py_Initialize();
>>     Py_InitModule("test", EmbMethods);
>>     PyRun_SimpleString(script);
>>     Py_Finalize();
>>
>> Harri
> 
> 




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Sep 19 15:37:44 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:37:44 -0400
Subject: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
References: <dnfmmv0n8evvu238thm96t3k2iff7dm33d@4ax.com> <mailman.1063997966.12324.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lOqdnaG8ttWUxvaiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063997966.12324.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Daniel> http://www.dailyllama.com/news/2003/llama206.html
>
> I particularly liked the last sentence:
>
>     Casting for SPAMELOT will begin shortly. Run away.

I nominate whoever sent me over a thousand fake MS Update + attachment
spams in the last 24 hours.

TJR





From ods at strana.ru  Tue Sep 30 12:15:10 2003
From: ods at strana.ru (Denis S. Otkidach)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:15:10 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Inconsistent behavior of descriptors
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L.0309302000230.20282-100000@localhost.localdomain>

I've noticed that the order of attribute lookup is inconsistent
when descriptor is used.  property instance takes precedence of
instance attributes:

>>> class A(object):
...     def _get_attr(self):
...         return self._attr
...     attr = property(_get_attr)
...
>>> a=A()
>>> a.__dict__
{}
>>> a.__dict__['attr']=1
>>> a.__dict__
{'attr': 1}
>>> a.attr
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in _get_attr
AttributeError: 'A' object has no attribute '_attr'

But it doesn't when I use custom class of descriptor:

>>> class descr(object):
...     def __get__(self, inst, cls):
...         return inst._attr
...
>>> class B(object):
...     attr = descr()
...
>>> b=B()
>>> b.__dict__
{}
>>> b.__dict__['attr']=1
>>> b.__dict__
{'attr': 1}
>>> b.attr
1

Subclasses of property behave like property itself:

>>> class descr2(property):
...     def __get__(self, inst, cls):
...         return inst._attr
...
>>> class C(object):
...     attr = descr2()
...
>>> c=C()
>>> c.__dict__
{}
>>> c.__dict__['attr']=1
>>> c.__dict__
{'attr': 1}
>>> c.attr
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in __get__
AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute '_attr'

Is it an undocumented feature or I have to submit a bug report?

-- 
Denis S. Otkidach
http://www.python.ru/      [ru]





From jallan at smrtytrek.com  Fri Sep 26 17:01:31 2003
From: jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 14:01:31 -0700
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com> <m3fzinp4k0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309251050.77c86735@posting.google.com> <JMIcb.122892$bo1.24537@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <wmJcb.122907$bo1.8337@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <299f1138.0309261301.3648c2f7@posting.google.com>

"Neil Hodgson" <nhodgson at bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<wmJcb.122907$bo1.8337 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Me:
> 
> > for an illustrative but incorrect example
> > "ca~non".upper() -> {'portugal':'CANON','spain':'CA~NON'}),
> 
>    For a real example from the Microsoft web site, uppercasing "indigo"
> (u'\u0069\u006e\u0064\u0069\u0067\u006f') gives "INDIGO"
> (u'\u0049\u004e\u0044\u0049\u0047\u004f') for English-US and similar but
> with dots above the 'I's for Turkish:
> (u'\u0130\u004e\u0044\u0130\u0047\u004f').
> 

The file http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt
purportedly contains *all* casings for all scripts for all languages
where the casings are not one-to-one or are otherwise not
straightforward.

The *only* locale oddities there are for Lithuanian and the two
languages Turkish and Azeri and concern only dot/no-dot variants of
the letters _i_, _I_, _j_, _J_ and no others.

There are *no* other locale-based oddities. The mess is thankfully
*very* limited in scope.

In my opinion, if the full Unicode casing specification is to be
followed, the most useful solution would be a parameter allowing the
user to choose among (1) normal Latin casing, (2) Turkish/Azeri or (2)
Lithuanian as the casing model for treatment of these letters.

The default for the parameter would either be based on current locale
or be normal Latin casing. I think the latter far better as it is
dangerous to have functions in a language differ from machine to
machine according to the current locale.

Also, in case someone brings it up, it was formerly standard to
generally omit diacritics on capital letters in Portuguese and in
French (in France but not in Quebec!)

This is no longer the norm for either language. See
http://www.academie-francaise.fr/langue/questions.html#accentuation
and http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/cmosfaq.SpecialCharacters.html.

I have seen academic style sheets with a silly rule that diacritics
should be placed on capital letters as on lowercase letters except for
the word "A". See http://www.alphaacademic.co.uk/fcs.htm and
http://www.sagepub.com/journalManuscript.aspx?pid=9669&sc=1:

<< We use accents on capital letters, but capital A does not take a
grave accent. >> 

It would not hurt to make a casing table customizable for such unusual
styles.  But that is beyond Unicode's specifications.

A programmer who wishes odd customization beyond the norms of a
language and Unicode specifications can do it through transformations
outside of normal casing.

Jim Allan



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep 27 13:15:34 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:15:34 -0400
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <10c662fe.0309270545.1fd5d839@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7tidnd_LS5ElWOiiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>

"Roberto A. F. De Almeida" <roberto at dealmeida.net> wrote in message
news:10c662fe.0309270545.1fd5d839 at posting.google.com...
> Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote
in message news:<bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g at 4ax.com>...
> > That is, whether the single or multiple notation is used, and
whether
> > the slice objects are placed in a tuple or not, they are
constructed
> > from the tuple notation - the translation from notation to slice
> > object should be done consistently.
>
> Yes, I believe I was not very clear. This is the inconsistency I was
> talking about. (And this is with Python 2.3.1)

As I pointed out in response to the same message, there is no
inconsistency because the premise behind that conclusion is wrong.  I
also pointed out that you can make the premise true and get the
consistency you expect by adding a comma after single slice
expressions so that you do always use tuple notation.

[me]> > >What you probably want is b[:-1][:-1], etc.  Each index must
be
> > >separately bracketed to access items in list of lists (etc).

> The problem with b[:-1][:-1] is that it will return b[:-1], and then
> slice the result again. It's ok if you're working with lists, but
not
> for what I'm doing.
...
> and request from the server only the data that will be used, and
> return it as a Numeric array.

Then you should, of course, use N.P.'s extended slicing syntax and I
would expect all to work well.  If you are doing something just
similar, then you will have to do similar custom interpretation of
slice tuples.

Terry J. Reedy





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 16 16:14:09 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:14:09 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <3F67677E.9030408@sci.fi>
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org>
        <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net>
        <16231.25317.741455.556170@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <3F67677E.9030408@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <16231.28433.221154.160576@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Actually, it makes perfect sense.  The reference count of Py_None is
    >> never supposed to reach zero.  If that happens it's because you have
    >> a bug (too many Py_DECREFs or not enouch Py_INCREFs).  Your version
    >> of none_dealloc silently masks the error.

    Harri> Yes, and there is no error if the reference count of Py_None
    Harri> reaches zero. The Py_None reference count has no meaning.

Yes it does.  If it goes to zero it means you have a bug in your code.  Note
that there are plenty of situations where you INCREF or DECREF objects not
knowing (or caring) that the actual object you are messing with might be
Py_None.  If I happen to incompletely test a function defined (in C)
something like:

    def myfunc(arg1, arg2, arg3=None):
        blah
        blah
        blah

and have a reference count error in my code related to arg3 such that I
erroneously DECREF it, but never test the three arg case, your version of
none_dealloc() will silently miss the problem.  The current none_dealloc()
will rightfully complain if myfunc() is called enough times, because
Py_None's reference count will go to zero.

    Harri> By changing the way how Py_None is freed (by doing nothing)
    Harri> Python would get simpler and faster.

I think you're wrong.  There are lots of places in the current code base
where the INCREFs and DECREFs happen without concern for the actual object
passed.  There are at least some places where a check for Py_None would
probably be warranted.  In any case, I suspect that most INCREFs and DECREFs
of Py_None actually happen when the interpreter doesn't realize that Py_None
is being manipulated.  By eliminating the few cases where you do know you're
messing with Py_None you probably won't reduce the number of Py_INCREF and
Py_DECREF calls substantially.

    Harri> How can you have negative reference counts? Answer: You
    Harri> can't.

Yes you can.  From Include/object.h:

    /* PyObject_HEAD defines the initial segment of every PyObject. */
    #define PyObject_HEAD                       \
            _PyObject_HEAD_EXTRA                \
            int ob_refcnt;                      \
            struct _typeobject *ob_type;

Note that ob_refcnt is defined as an int, not an unsigned int.  I'm not sure
if there are any ramifications to changing the type of that field.  I don't
have time to inspect the code at the level necessary to answer
authoritatively.

    Harri> I think that you are completely missing the point of Python's
    Harri> reference counting. :-) The idea is that when the count reaches
    Harri> zero, then the object is deallocated. But if the object was never
    Harri> allocated in the first place, why deallocate it then? That's why
    Harri> having empty none_dealloc is beautiful.

Except for the case where the reference counting has an error.  Let me
restate it this way: The C implementation of Python operationally defines a
reference count of zero for a statically allocated object (not just Py_None)
as a fatal error.  That's as it should be, because any statically allocated
object should have a reference count of at least one.

    Harri> I think that PyINCREF(Py_None) is ugly, and at least it is
    Harri> completely unnecessary.

You're the person who keeps asking for it.  Perhaps you should perform the
tests.  If it works, submit a patch to SF.  If not, dig deeper and figure
out why.

Skip





From claird at lairds.com  Mon Sep  1 08:08:54 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:08:54 -0000
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <3f530ea6$0$32489$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk> <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162>
Message-ID: <vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com>

In article <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz at 62.243.74.162>,
Larz  <lp at your-pants-coder.dk> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Dan and I are long time php programmers. One thing that is superb about 
>php, is it's online documentation that everyone in the community can 
>contribute to (not the actual documentation, just comments with 
>examples).
>
>Every since I first started using python, I've truly missed a 
>documentation source similar to that of PHP's. So Dan and I have started 
>our little project to make a documentation site in the spirit of that 
>documentation.
			.
			.
			.
PHP's documentation has indeed been a great success as a 
collaborative adventure.

Python already has a structure--and much content!--for 
comparable collaboration in <URL: http://
www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/ >.  Moreover, as several
follow-ups have explained, Python developers have differ-
ent work practices than PHPers, and a different relation
to documentation.  In particular, it's hard to overempha-
size how much working Python programmers depend on 
interactive introspection:  use of the interpreter's
built-in help, pydoc, and related facilities to discover
and confirm details that, in PHPonia, are regarded as 
matters for online documentation.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Sep  4 16:53:49 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:53:49 GMT
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <3f57a537.423720477@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:16:59 +0200, Patrick Useldinger
<p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote:
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
> few years, about Python or IT in general.

IT Architectures and Middleware by Chris Broitton was a good read
- but probably only if you are involvced in building big
enterprise wide systems.

I'm currently reading Robert Glass's book "Facts and Fallacies of
Software Engineering" which is thought provoking and reminds us
how little real progress we've made inthe last 30 years.

And if you haven't already read it you owe it to yourself to read
the "Structure & Interpretation of Computer Programs" (aka SICP
and available online if you want a sample). Warning: It could
change how you think about programming!

And finally, I keep going back to Jon Bentley's "Programming
Pearls" - I believe now available in a single volume. Words of
wisdom on every page there.

HTH,

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 13:40:25 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:40:25 +0100
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <f4b2nv8vs81v6egonckq7935jmh6a8gku6@4ax.com> <2Udcb.1997$541.708@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <he76nvoejeqqfs962cevspg9iafdv20e51@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:57:18 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger"
<vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

>> Second, I'm not quite ready to drop my property idea ;-)
>>
>> An advantage is that the object returned by the property can sensibly
>> support more than just iteration - e.g. slicing (as touched on in the
>> PEP284 thread). So for instance...
>>
>> >>> x = range(10)
>> >>> list(x.backward)
>> [9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0]
>
>I'm not clear on the details of what you're proposing.  What is
>type(x.backward)?

Some made-up proxy class that understands that certain operations will
work as if the list was reversed.

For integer lists, I'd use much the same thing but on the
set-of-all-integers object I proposed in the earlier thread. So I
could write...

  for i in integers.backwards [:10] :
    print i

...to do the same as your...

  for i in xrange (10).iter_backwards () :
    print i

...though I'm also having this idea about using the 'int' type object
to implement these again. It makes a certain sense for type names to
also act as abstract sets of possible values. For typechecking
purposes, for instance, it might be nice to be able to write...

  if x in float :
    do stuff with float value

Of course that's a long way from compelling given that we already have
the isinstance function, but what is attracting me is that these two
ideas...

  1.  Provide objects (or extend the type name objects) to provide
      the abstraction of a set of values of that type, implementing
      whatever operations are practical and useful for that
      abstraction.

  2.  Provide properties of objects (including that abstract set of
      integers) which act as proxies for the object, but providing
      an modified view of that object (including a backward view of a
      sequence object, but possibly other things too).

...seem to provide, either alone or in combination, natural solutions
to several problems. For instance, you don't just get the ability to
loop through a range of integers backwards...

  for i in integers.ibackwards [:50] :

But equally the ability to iterate through a sequence backwards...

  for i in x.ibackwards [:50] :

And basically you are doing the same thing in each case - its just
that the first example slices an abstract sequence as opposed to one
that is physically held in memory.

>Please show what a pure python version would look like
>(taking UserList as an example).

I didn't use UserList, but I did post example code in the "Comment on
PEP-0322: Reverse Iteration Methods" thread. I wasn't so keen in that
post, but I seem to like the idea again now.

>> >* Should enumerate() be included?  It would only provide reverse iteration
>> >  whenever the underlying sequence supported it.
>>
>> Why not...
>>
>>   for i, j in enumerate (listname.iter_backwards ()) :
>>
>> in other words, as enumerate can handle the already-reversed
>> sequence/iteration, I don't see the point.
>
>The point is that enumerate will starting numbering from zero
>for the last item:

Yes - I wasn't thinking straight, sorry about that. Just to put a
thought in based on those two ideas above, though, how about...

>>> x=["a", "b", "c"]
>>> print x.enumerated
[(0, "a"), (1, "b"), (2, "c")]
>>> print x.backwards.enumerated
[(0, "c"), (1, "b"), (2, "c")]
>>> print x.enumerated.backwards
[(2, "c"), (1, "b"), (0, "c")]

'enumerated' need not create the list or iterator immediately - again,
it returns a proxy which implements the modified behaviour. Having a
proxy to a proxy gives IMO quite a neat solution.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Thu Sep 18 08:24:52 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:24:52 -0500
Subject: needs help in how to translate &#8820; and &#8821;
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C8501038028@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Thanks!

Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jepler at unpythonic.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:49 PM
To: Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix)
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: needs help in how to translate &#8820; and &#8821;


&#NNNN; is an HTML "numeric character reference".  See
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/charset.html#h-5.3.1

You can use Python to find the name of a particular Unicode character:
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.name(unichr(8820))
'NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR EQUIVALENT TO'

On my terminal, I can display that character this way:
>>> print unichr(8820).encode("utf-8")
?
(I think that's a less-than symbol, "<" above an equivalent symbol (~)
with a vertical bar through it, but I really can't tell in this font...)

Jeff

From gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl  Thu Sep 11 03:27:10 2003
From: gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl (Grzegorz Staniak)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:27:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org> <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org> <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1063251143.12678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbm08ud.d9.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>

Al Kirke writes:

>> This sort of thing still happens (it hits the news whenever such a
> shooting
>> occurs),
> 
> You're correct in that this sort of thing hits the news. What doesn't
> hit the news are the instances when handguns are used for personal
> defense.  John Lott wrote a whole book about liberal news bias
> aganst those instances.
> 
> http://www.wmsa.net/people/john_lott/030822_bias_star.htm

I think it's a mistake to cite Lott here. As an extreme libertarian he
has shown his own bias a couple of times. His famous "More guns, less
crime" findings has been challenged recently (see e.g.
http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,562387,00.html),
and he could not produce any evidence whatsoever that his telephone
survey on the crime-repelling effects of gun carrying has been actually
conducted.
 
[---] 
> But the biggest difference that household firearms make in
> society is in the hot burglary statistics.   

Another one is that half of the burglars serving time in US prisons
admit to have stolen a gun at least once. That means a lot of guns in
the hands of criminals.

[---]
> A current judicial move concerns the 2nd Amendment. 5th
> Circuit in New Orleans says its an individual right to keep
> and bear arms, 9th Circuit in San Francisco (where else?)
> says the right belongs to the national guard.  This conflict
> will reach the SCOTUS in the next year or so.

It is a myth that the 2nd Amendment warrants "an individual right to
keep and bear arms":

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issuebriefs/second.asp

	A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free
	State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
	infringed."

Pro-gun activists have made it a habit to omit the first, crucial part
of the above sentence. Nonetheless, it is one of the well-established
facts od the US constitutional law that gun-restricting laws are NOT in
conflict with the 2nd Amendment. Actually, AFAIR no such law has ever
been overturned on constitutional grounds.

> Al

-- 
Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at zagiel.com.pl>



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep  3 13:38:19 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:38:19 -0600
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
In-Reply-To: <bj56nu$f3gk1$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com>
 <bis8k4$sjv$00$1@news.t-online.com>
 <m349lvgot9ghsmii9b85uoq34qfhbho8jq@4ax.com>
 <js99lvguv5vdvmmjfpdmgmo5dnq5akttfb@news.stofanet.dk>
 <3f550e2f.254030105@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
 <tyfbru1swzd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030903113537.02fbfad0@66.28.54.253>

At 10:04 AM 9/3/2003 -0700, Cousin Stanley wrote:

>| ...
>} I don't think that it has changed its meaning;
>| most people just use the term incorrectly.
>| ...
>
>     Add to these the  OFTEN  confused terms
>     accuracy and precision ...

Precisely what I was thinking.

I looked at a digital thermometer in Radio Shack. It had been in the store 
long enough to stabilize. It showed indoor and outdoor temperatures to a 
precision of 0.1 degree. The indoor and outdoor readings differed by about 
a degree. So now we know the accuracy, and the precision was therefore 
worthless.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Sep 19 18:39:52 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:39:52 -0400
Subject: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
In-Reply-To: <3F6B7FE7.445FB3BF@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECEGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Erik Max Francis]
> ...
> The problem with this latest round of worm spam isn't that it's
> bypassing filters (I just have some reasonably sane filtering
> rules in my system, certainly nothing customized to this latest worm
> attack -- I don't even really know which rules are stopping it), it's
> putting significant loads on mail servers.  Unfortunately, running an
> intensive, per-user customized spam filtering solution like Spambayes
> _increases_ that load.

SpamBayes was designed to run client-side, although a few people have made
it part of server-side systems.  Most users' PCs sit idle most of the time.
Greg Ward made the most impressive server-side use of SpamBayes that I know
of to date, to filter the Python and Zope mailing lists run via python.org.
There's no per-user customization in those, and it isn't needed because a
tech mailing list has a natural shared focus.  Greg did set up several
distinct classifiers for different groups of mailing lists.

SpamBayes isn't notably intensive, either.  One of the reasons Greg moved
the python.org mailing lists to SpamBayes filtering is that it runs much
faster than SpamAssassin (which python.org used to use).

The biggest drains caused by worm spew are on bandwidth and disk space.
Filters don't add to the former unless they do lookups over the net
(SpamBayes does not), and a very effective SpamBayes classifier can fit
entirely in a small corner of a typical server's RAM.

not-bothering-to-refute-that-the-sky-is-pink<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim





From exarkun at intarweb.us  Mon Sep  1 16:42:23 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 16:42:23 -0400
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
In-Reply-To: <3285.208.224.10.29.1062445601.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
References: <3285.208.224.10.29.1062445601.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
Message-ID: <20030901204223.GB10824@intarweb.us>

On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 03:46:41PM -0400, tjland at iserv.net wrote:
> Okay now im pretty sure this is really easy and pretty stupid but i need
> to create this. To make it simple ill use another program as an example. A
> guessing game that has an input field and button and an output field that
> can display w/e. I know this is really easy in c++ but it needs ot be done
> in python. Can anyone start me off here or give me a skeleton structure on
> this is supposed to be arranged. Thanx in advance.
> 

  Just off the top of my head...

    import Tkinter as tk

    class GuessWidget(tk.Frame):
        def __init__(self, value, *args, **kw):
            tk.Frame.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
            input = tk.Frame(self)
            tk.Label(input, text="Guess").pack(anchor=tk.W)
            self.input = tk.Entry(input)
            self.input.bind('<Return>', self.got_input)
            self.input.pack(anchor=tk.W)
            input.pack(anchor=tk.N)
            self.output = tk.Label(self)
            self.output.pack(anchor=tk.N)
            self.pack()
            self.value = value

        def got_input(self, event):
            v = int(self.input.get())
            if v < self.value:
                self.output.config(text="Too low!")
            elif v > self.value:
                self.output.config(text="Too high!")
            else:
                self.output.config(text="You got it!")

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        GuessWidget(random.randrange(100)).mainloop()

  Jp

--

        "I quite agree with you," said the Duchess; "and the moral of
that is -- Be what you would seem to be' -- or, if you'd like it put
more simply -- Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it
might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not 
otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be
otherwise.'"       -- Lewis Carrol, "Alice in Wonderland"




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Sep 26 20:46:17 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:46:17 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com>
 <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu>
 <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951@news20.bellglobal.com>
 <eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003@news.service.uci.edu>
 <5L%cb.13662$yD1.1524835@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <ullsb9hye.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> writes:

> "David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
> news:eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003 at news.service.uci.edu...
>> Your proposed name has an implication for the semantics.
>
> Do the implied semantics of ireverse() differ from those implied by the
> names iter_backwards(), reverse_view(), riter(), etc.?
> Because, to me, they' re just different words for the same idea.

Well, the only other place we have an 'i' prefix on a function name,
AFAIK, it means "inplace".  I don't mind riter(); it has a nice
resonance with rbegin() in C++.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From http  Wed Sep 10 15:54:47 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 12:54:47 -0700
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <7xad9cwha0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

achrist at easystreet.com writes:
> The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of
> lightweight concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there
> any similarly nice way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around
> (perhaps in the middle of a loop) and wait until some other routine
> (unknown to the waiting module) hurls a value in?
> 
> If this is not implemented now, is there any chance that it's on the
> list of things to come?

Not much chance.  Even Stackless can't do that any more, if I
understand correctly.



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep  4 16:21:02 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:21:02 -0400
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
References: <mailman.1062702112.16151.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F579EAE.4CC9D5EC@engcorp.com>

Arthur wrote:
> 
> > aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> >
> > > In article <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg at speakeasy.net>,
> > [...]
> > > OTOH, Perens is also (like me ;-) a self-described asshole.  When I saw
> > > him at the Waterside Conference earlier this year, he basically claimed
> > > that only assholes could make significant progress in the Open Source
> > > community.
> > [...]
> >
> 
> ahaz, is of course, being an opportunist.
> 
> The record will show that I am the first here to have made claim - in just
> those words - of being a self-described asshole.
> 
> And heard no objection to the categorization.
> 
> which, it now seems, puts me in charge ;

Come on guys, no fighting!  

Would it help if we all just agreed that you're both a couple of assholes
and get it over with?  ;-)

-Peter



From jblazi at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 21 02:55:08 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:55:08 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de> <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122> <bkim08$f8i$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000@hotmail.com>

I shall have a computer science class this year and I decided to use
Python. It is my favourite language and I have used it for many years. Now
I thought, one of our first "real" programs, in our pre-graphical and
pre-class state, would be to write simple program that works like this:

One of the pupils enters a word. It should be a valid German word
consisting of five letters, for example 'abcde' (which is not a German
word by the way).

The the other player may enter a guess which must be a five letter word as
well, for example 'xbxxx'. Then the system answers with the string '-*---'
as the 'b' in 'xbxxx' was correct and at the right place as well.

Had the second player entered 'xxxbx', the system had responded with
'---.-', as the 'b' is correct but not correctly positioned.

The second player must find out the original word.

Now I did not see how to do it as simply as posible, that was the problem.

JB



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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Sep 26 22:24:30 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:24:30 GMT
Subject: [2.2.1]How To Gracefully Shutdown an XML-RPC Server
References: <a38d43b0.0309261712.540f96da@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yx6db.4829$RW4.3093@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

The Jetman:
> I'm reading source code, but I haven't found any examples of
> how to simply shutdown my XML-RPC server.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/114579

Or you can ungracefully use os._exit, like pulling the emergency
brake on a train.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From grante at visi.com  Fri Sep  5 17:34:05 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 21:34:05 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <vlhtm1bmc7m295 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:

>> There's no difference in the sense that a method is simply a
>> function whose first parameter refers to the class instance to
>> be worked on.  No magic words, no "undeclared" parameters.  It
>> means that in my demo code in limitcases.py (somewhere in the
>> newsgroup lately) I can say
>>
>>     limitcases.Lowest.__str__ = lambda x: "-Infinity"
>>
>> to give the Lowest class a new method sans ennuis.
> 
> But why do it that way?

So that there's no difference between a function and a method.

Simplicity and orthogonality are good things -- despite what
C++ proponents thing. 

> Neither Java nor Ruby require giving the instance a name.

So?  

Personally I don't like invisible, implied, automatic stuff
like that.

Can't stand automatic transmissions either -- the damn things
have no idea what's ahead, and always seem to be in the wrong
gear at critical moments.

> Hence my comment that requiring it is more complex than not
> requiring it.

No, it's more complex the Java/Ruby way, since you have to have
two sets of rules for what a name means depending on whether
you're inside a "normal" function or a method.  In Python
there's just one set of rules -- mostly.

I have enough trouble remembering how the stuff I design works. ;)

I don't want to have to keep track of more scoping/name-space
rules than absolutely necessary.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Intra-mural sports
                                  at               results are filtering
                               visi.com            through th' plumbing...



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Sep 22 14:46:41 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:46:41 -0300
Subject: Memory allocation
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FD2@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Can you provide more background on the specific problem you need
#- to solve, or are you looking for a very general solution?  In 
#- other words, do you just need to know how much memory a list, or
#- an integer uses up, or do you think you need a general-purpose
#- function which works with any object of any type.

It's a very general question for a very particular problem, :)

My particular problem is that I want to store in memory a pickled object,
and then want to know if that object changed.

For example (code untested):

class ObjectControl:
	""" Class to control if an object changed. """
	def __init__(self, object):
		objectPickled = cPickle.dumps(object)
		return

	def objectChanged(self, newObject):
		newObjectPickled = cPickle.dumps(newObject)
		if newObjectPickled == self.objectPickled:
			return False
		else:
			return True

so....

object1 = pickle.load(myfile)
control1 = ObjectControl(object1)
...
#lot of stuff that could change my object
...
#write to disk only if necessary
if control1.objectChanged(object1):
	pickle.dump(myfile, object1)


Don't know if there's a better solution for this particular problem
(suggestions welcomed), but it still remains a general question: the other
day I wanted to know "how much more expensive in memory is a list than a
tuple for a given content".

Get my idea?

Thanks for all!

.	Facundo




From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Thu Sep 11 14:57:28 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 14:57:28 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org> <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org> <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org> <000b01c37824$c972de10$3a0ff10c@teaset> <mailman.1063290822.30564.python-list@python.org> <bjq4hq$3or$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <m3znhb40h3.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> > Why is this on c.l.py anyway?

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> writes:

> Wasn't 'gun' just an allegory for using Perl?

+1 QOTW.

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 13:22:44 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:22:44 +0300
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com> <7h3smmm2m0w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <0ck3nvoicm45kb0oon2etsucttatc3aob7@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:28:25 GMT, rumours say that Michael Hudson
<mwh at python.net> might have written:

>I may be wrong, but I thought that audioop and imageop only work in a
>32 bit environment.

I found an old post by Guido (1998) asking for testers in 64-bit
environments; it seems that the work he did then (and perhaps some later
work by him or others) gave fruit.

I checked the source (of audioop at least), and there are some #ifdef
code at the start of it, assuring the type used in calculations is 4
bytes long.
The tests ran fine! :)

Guido's post:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=199804232038.QAA05368%40eric.CNRI.Reston.Va.US
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From P at draigBrady.com  Tue Sep  9 05:22:11 2003
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:22:11 +0100
Subject: PyGTK and fonts
In-Reply-To: <f5c5dc88.0309081934.76f17ec2@posting.google.com>
References: <f5c5dc88.0309081934.76f17ec2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5D9BC3.2040101@draigBrady.com>

Tad Marko wrote:
> Howdy!
> 
> I'm pretty new to both Python and PyGTK (about 10 hours at this
> point), so please forgive me if this question has already been
> answered somewhere. Basically, I've got a small program with a
> GtkTextView and I'd like to change the font to a monospaced font.
> Preferably the default monspace font for Gnome 2. Can anyone show me
> the steps necessary to programatically change the font on the text
> view?
> 
> Thanks for any help!

Hi, I found these were required reading for using pygtk

FAQ: http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=all
Tut: http://www.moeraki.com/pygtktutorial/pygtk2tutorial/index.html
Ref: http://www.moeraki.com/pygtkreference/pygtk2reference/

Note pygtk has just in the last few days reached version 2.
Also note that mandrake 9.2 will include it by default
Here is a useful search for existing mandrake and suse users:
http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&srodzaj=1&search=pygtk2%2A&dl=40&dist[]=13&dist[]=19&field[]=1&field[]=2

P?draig.




From henk at entree.nl  Mon Sep 22 11:42:45 2003
From: henk at entree.nl (Henk Punt)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 08:42:45 -0700
Subject: Access to Win API
References: <d541d61d12758a2b45ea1de78809beac@news.meganetnews.com>	<mailman.1063964485.26108.python-list@python.org>	<0c58d500ac94b27d7f8ff87a2a59f6e1@news.meganetnews.com> <mailman.1063973126.25678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5a6dd3ff.0309220742.402b7a07@posting.google.com>

And if you are going to write a GUI app for windows with ctypes, you
might want to check out:

http://venster.sourceforge.net/

It already contains a lot of usefull stuff for windows GUI programming.

Henk.

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063973126.25678.python-list at python.org>...
> Ladv nszky K roly wrote:
> > Thanks for your help. I remember once I tried a Python cookbook sample 
>  code
> > that included ctypes but now 'import ctypes' does not work.
> > Should ctypes come together with the 2.3 installation?
> 
> It's available here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ctypes
> 
> -- Gerhard



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  3 10:51:57 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:51:57 -0700
Subject: wxGrid?
References: <3f55f478$1@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <bj4uur$f9lej$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

Tom ...

    I was able to run your script
    by adding two lines ...

        from wxPython.grid import *

    and

        grid.CreateGrid( 3 , 2 )

Cousin Stanley

-----------------------------------------------------------

'''
    NewsGroup .... comp.lang.python
    Date ......... 2003-09-03
    Posted_By .... Tom Lee
    Edited_By .... Stanley C. Kitching
'''

from wxPython.wx   import *
from wxPython.grid import *

class TestFrame( wxFrame ) :

   def __init__( self ) :

     wxFrame.__init__( self , None, -1 , 'TestGrid' ,
                       size = ( 430 , 185 ) )

     grid = wxGrid( self, -1 )

     grid.CreateGrid( 3 , 2 )

     grid.AppendCols( 2 )
     grid.AppendRows( 3 )

     grid.SetCellValue( 0 , 0 , 'Testing' )

     self.Show( True )

class TestApp( wxApp ) :

   def OnInit( self ) :

     frame = TestFrame()

     self.SetTopWindow( frame )

     return True

if __name__ == '__main__' :

   app = TestApp( 0 )

   app.MainLoop()





From claird at lairds.com  Thu Sep  4 13:37:55 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:37:55 -0000
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
References: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com> <vle0j01npmca27@corp.supernews.com> <qeselv8j6tgsg151ig4v55jdq5pmvbvfmk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vleu3j62pt564e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <qeselv8j6tgsg151ig4v55jdq5pmvbvfmk at 4ax.com>,
Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou  <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I should add that drag and drop in the same application can be done
>easily, but it's hard to do it between your application and others (too
>much window manager dependencies...)
			.
			.
			.
Absolutely.  My guess is that the original questioner did *not*
have inter-application drag-and-drop in mind, at least not ini-
tially.  Those who want to pursue the subject might find the
references at <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/DragAndDrop > helpful.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Sep 20 06:51:14 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:51:14 +1000 (EST)
Subject: "tuple index out of range" side effect of C extension??
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEJBFPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEJBFPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030920204751.P33392@bullseye.apana.org.au>

[I replied to Tim privately; this response for the archives]
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Tim Peters wrote:

> [Andrew MacIntyre]
> > I'm seeing a bizarre situation where IndexErrors are being thrown with
> > "tuple index out of range" error strings.
> >
> > The scenario is something like:
> >
> > l = [(v1a, v1b), (v2a, v2b), ..., (vna, vnb)]
> >
> > for a, b in l:
> >     ...
> >
> >
> >
> > with the IndexError being thrown on the "for..." line after the last
> > element of l has been through the for loop.
> >
> > I've also seen the same exception thrown on first access to an
> > attribute of a simple class.
> >
> > The exception being thrown is not consistent,
>
> It's probably the case then that C code is setting an exception in a
> function F but neglecting to make F return its "there's an error" return
> value.  The most common way this happens is for an extension module to call
> a Python C API function and neglect to check *it* for an error return value.
> In general, every Python C API function call must be checked for an error
> return, and, when one occurs, the calling function must either return an
> error code itself, or explicitly clear the error.
>
> If an error return isn't made, ceval.c (the interpreter's main loop) doesn't
> know an exception is pending, and not all bytecodes check for a pending
> exception.  The exception doesn't get triggered then until the interpreter
> happens to execute a bytecode that does check for a pending exception.  The
> original C code that set the exception is long gone at that point, and the
> reported exception doesn't appear to make sense.

Tim's diagnosis was accurate - many thanks!

Regards,
Andrew.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Thu Sep 11 01:44:49 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:44:49 +1000
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python 
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.10.22.42.45.569436@webone.com.au> 
References: <pan.2003.09.10.22.42.45.569436@webone.com.au>  <mailman.1063224795.24414.python-list@python.org> 
Message-ID: <200309110544.h8B5inYu010107@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Simon Burton wrote
> 
> One idea:
> pygame can render with TTF fonts,
> it can also save surfaces in tga format.
> Then use PIL to convert to gif. The only
> question is, can pygame do this without displaying
> a window etc.

Absolutely - I have code here that generates animated gifs doing
just this sort of thing.

Anthony
-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Sep  3 01:12:07 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 07:12:07 +0200
Subject: Location of bytecode files (pyc)
References: <6f03c4a5.0309021745.3a79d951@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3ekyyjw0o.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:

> How can I control the location of the bytecode files?

You currently can't. See PEP 304, though, at

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0304.html

Comments on the PEP are encouraged: If you won't comment now on
whether the proposed change would solve your problem, it might be that
you find something useless got implemented later.

Regards,
Martin



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 04:46:15 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:46:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Question: Inheritance from a buil-in type
References: <3F7848C6.8070306@snafu.de> <Xns9405A01F17467duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <38ec68a6.0309300022.3c8e3304@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns940661D24ABC2duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere) wrote in
news:38ec68a6.0309300022.3c8e3304 at posting.google.com: 

> Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:<Xns9405A01F17467duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>... 
> 
>> 
>> There are two rules. Generally, immutable objects get their initial
>> values from the constructor (__new__) while mutable objects are
>> constructed with a default value (e.g. empty list or dict) and are
>> then set by the initialiser (__init__) method. A few types which you
>> might expect to be immutable are actually mutable (e.g. property).
>>
> 
> What is the thinking behind that? I mean you /can/ pass initial values
> to a mutable using __new__,  eg
> 
>      class MyList (list) :
>          def __new__(cls, *args, **kwargs) :
>              return list.__new__(cls, *args, **kwargs)
> 
> or __init__ to pass values to a newly created immutable, eg
> 
>      class MyTuple (tuple) :
>          def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs) :
>              return super(tuple, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)
> 
> can't you?  What's the pitfall?
> 
The pitfall is that these aren't doing what you think. In both cases you 
just passed the original arguments straight through, so the list also got 
the arguments it expected in its __init__ method, and the tuple got its 
expected arguments in __new__. If you modify the arguments in any way 
you'll find that your code still only sees the original arguments.

list.__init__ and tuple.__new__ act on their arguments.
list.__new__ and tuple.__init__ ignore their arguments.

Take the tuple example. tuple() takes 0 or 1 arguments, so you can't write:

    tuple(1, 2, 3)

So define a class to do this:

>>> class MyTuple(tuple):
	def __new__(cls, *args):
		return tuple.__new__(cls, args)

	
>>> MyTuple(1, 2, 3)
(1, 2, 3)

Now try this with __init__ and the default __new__ will complain:

>>> class MyTuple(tuple):
	def __init__(self, *args):
		tuple.__init__(self, args)

		
>>> MyTuple(1, 2, 3)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#73>", line 1, in ?
    MyTuple(1, 2, 3)
TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (3 given)


If you try subclassing list, then this example shows clearly that the 
arguments to __new__ are actually ignored:

>>> class MyList (list) :
        def __new__(cls, *args, **kwargs) :
             return list.__new__(cls, *args, **kwargs)
        def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
		print "list before init",self
		list.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)

		
>>> print MyList([1, 2, 3])
list before init []
[1, 2, 3]

 
-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From samschul at pacbell.net  Sat Sep 27 17:41:46 2003
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 14:41:46 -0700
Subject: FTP access to starship.python.net?
Message-ID: <d7fcf8b4.0309271341.72304331@posting.google.com>

Who should I contact about accessing my account on Starship. I need to
obtain a new password and access process.

I think i am having a memory lapse as it has been over a year sense I
have had a need to access my files.

Sam Schulenburg



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Sep 15 19:12:14 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:12:14 GMT
Subject: compound conditional statements
References: <3064b51d.0309151331.76f1d658@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <iHr9b.7534$3Y2.5410@news2.central.cox.net>

<beliavsky at aol.com> wrote ...
> If I have code
>
> if (aa or bb): print "true",
>
> does Python evaluate aa and bb in any particular order? Can I assume that
if
> aa is true, bb will not be evaluated?

Yes. Both "and" and "or" are specifcally short-circuiting.

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From peterm at resmed.com.au  Mon Sep 29 00:07:14 2003
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:07:14 +1000
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
References: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <UdOdb.52$t44.3099@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Emacs - allows screen splitting vertically and horizontally into as many
sections as you can handle on your monitor i.e. I have a 17" monitor and
find 4 buffers visible at any time to be about right for comfort, but
occassionally I'll split even one of these into two (horizontally of
course - at this point you can't read much if you split vertically :-)).
Quite often one of them is the Python interpretor session in which I am
debugging source I am looking at in another screen buffer.......

Emacs also has a supports package/mode available called escreen - this is a
"duplication" (for Emacs) of the Unix screen utility - it basically allows
multiple screens (the screen utility on Unix allowed multiple virtual
terminals on a character based terminal), each of which you can then split
as you like. So you can get some quite complicated combinations all within
the same edit session (of course multiple "screens" like this aren't visible
at once).

Peter


"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0 at 4ax.com...
> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
> looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
> methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.
>
> I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
> it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.
>
> This is something I got use to in Smalltalk and have found it quite
> useful when working on several methods that work closely together.
>
> Daniel Klein





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 10 09:13:32 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 14:13:32 +0100
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org> <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com> <3f5dec0d@news.comindico.com.au> <3F5E053D.743DA13A@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <87k78gbxc3.fsf@pobox.com>

achrist at easystreet.com writes:
> Tom Lee wrote:
> > JEdit is fantastic.
[...]
> a bad crash -- I don't recall exactly what -- maybe a BSOD or a
> JVM crash.  That's not the kind of thing I enjoy, so I haven't
> used it since.  

What platform was that (JVM, OS)?


John



From kodambal at imec.be  Tue Sep  2 05:47:17 2003
From: kodambal at imec.be (K.C. Shashidhar)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:47:17 +0200
Subject: printer friendly python tutorial
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062488944.11530.python-list@python.org>
References: <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53> <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53> <YTb4b.235097$It4.112333@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20030901234513.02e92120@66.28.54.253> <mailman.1062488944.11530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1062496037.923678@dmz2.imec.be>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> http://www.python.org => Documentation => Download
> Current Documentation (first link on page) =>
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/download.html
> 
> where the table on the top of the page contains download
> links for HTML, PDF, Postscript, GNU info, iSilo, and LaTeX
> versions of the docs, in ZIP, GZip, and BZip2 archives.

I wonder why someone wanting to print only the tutorial has to download 
the whole  archive and unzip. Wouldn't it be helpful to keep them 
separately available, like the HTML versions are?

MHTP,
Shashi




From google at hanger.snowbird.net  Fri Sep  5 20:11:41 2003
From: google at hanger.snowbird.net (Kris Caselden)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 17:11:41 -0700
Subject: Packaging?
Message-ID: <abc3fdd3.0309051611.6dd16bf7@posting.google.com>

Particularly in Windows, how do create installation packages for
python scripts? I've noticed that PyOpenGL and PyGame use a pretty
nice installer, and some games I've seen install and run without even
needing python installed. How is this done?



From stefan.fleiter at web.de  Tue Sep  2 14:36:21 2003
From: stefan.fleiter at web.de (Stefan Fleiter)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:36:21 +0200
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
Message-ID: <bj2nv5$hna$1@news.web.de>

Hi,

under Python 2.2.2:

 >>> s = slice(None,5,None)
 >>> hash(s)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unhashable type
 >>> s.__hash__()
136775584

Can anybody explain this?

Greets,
Stefan




From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Sep 28 22:18:32 2003
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 02:18:32 GMT
Subject: Recursion
References: <xjLdb.565$Vb3.450032@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <20030928221832.08626.00000320@mb-m05.aol.com>

>Subject: Recursion
>From: "Jakle" jakle1 at hotmail.com 
>Date: 9/28/2003 7:48 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <xjLdb.565$Vb3.450032 at news1.news.adelphia.net>
>
>Hi all. Need alittle help here. This is an example from "How to Think Like a
>Computer Scientist: Learning with Python, Chapter 5".  It's an open source
>ebook, so if you feel like it you can find it here:
>http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
>
>The example uses factorials to explain more complex recursion.
>
>"Explanation From the Book Begins Here"++++++++++++++++++
>
>>def factorial(n):
>>    if n == 0:
>>        return 1
>>    else:
>>        recurse = factorial(n-1)
>>        result = n * recurse
>>        return result
>>
>>    The flow of execution is as follows.
>>    If we call "factorial" with the value 3:
>>
>>    Since 3 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate the factorial
>of n-1...
>>        Since 2 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate the
>factorial of n-1...
>>            Since 1 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate the
>factorial of n-1...
>>                Since 0 is 0, we take the first branch and return 1 without
>making any more recusive calls.
>>            The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which is 1, and the
>result is returned.
>>        The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which is 2, and the result
>is returned.
>>    The return value (2) is multiplied by n, which is 3, and the result, 6,
>becomes the return value of the function that started the whole process.
>
>"Example Ends Here"++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>I thought I understood what was going on untill "Since 0 is 0...", but after
>that I get lost. Where are the variables being stored.
>And how does 1*1=2 ---> The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which is 1,

You've made a mistake here. 1*1=1, not 2. You can always modify the 
program to add some debugging aids. Here, I added a second parameter
to the function so we can track the level of recursion via indenting:

# start

def factorial(n,t):
    print '\t'*t,'factorial of',n
    if n == 0:
	print "\t"*t,'result =',1
        return 1
    else:
        recurse = factorial(n-1,t+1)
        result = n * recurse
	print "\t"*t,'result =',n,' * ',recurse,' = ',result
        return result

# always make the intial call with the second parameter = 1

print factorial(3,1)

# end

The sample run produced is

        factorial of 3
                factorial of 2
                        factorial of 1
                                factorial of 0
                                result = 1
                        result = 1  *  1  =  1
                result = 2  *  1  =  2
        result = 3  *  2  =  6
 6

There are four variables named 'n', one at each level of recursion, that's
why the 'result = ' formula keeps changing. The first parameter is 'n'
(from the line 'factorial of' at the same level of indentation) and the 
second parameter is the result of the lower level of recursion.
Note that at no point are we getting 1*1=2. 

Once you understand how it works, restore the function to its original form.

>and the result is returned. The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which
>is 2, and the result is returned.
>Sorry if I explained my problem oddly. You can see the example in the above
>link, under chapter 5.



--
Mensanator
2 of Clubs   http://members.aol.com/mensanator666/2ofclubs/2ofclubs.htm



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Sep  3 12:25:50 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:25:50 -0400
Subject: Invisible function attributes
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Z6ucnedZ-vGJi8uiXTWJhw@comcast.com>

"Olivier Lefevre" <lefevrol at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb at posting.google.com...
> Python 2.3
> >>> def foo():
> ...     foo.a = 1

If you want foo to be attributed before it is called, move the setter
outside the function.

>>> def foo(): pass
...
>>> foo.a = 1
>>> vars(foo)
{'a': 1}

Terry J Reedy





From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep 16 05:23:59 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:23:59 +0200
Subject: getch() in Python
In-Reply-To: <001b01c37c33$37081a00$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro>
References: <001b01c37c33$37081a00$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro>
Message-ID: <3F66D6AF.7050703@ghaering.de>

Jozsa Boti wrote:
> Hi!
>  
> Is there a getch()-like function in Python that is OS independent?
> I understand that msvcrt.getch() is available only under Windows.

The first Google hit leads to 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/134892

which is probably as cross-platform as you can get.

Oh, and please use plain text in your messages, not HTML.

-- Gerhard




From pfleonard at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 22 17:50:28 2003
From: pfleonard at hotmail.com (peter leonard)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:50:28 -0700
Subject: Begineer Question : Global string substitution with re
Message-ID: <Law11-F62bRFtSoJpnL00016df6@hotmail.com>

Thank you the prompt reply. It works now.... a definite begineer question.

Peter


>From: Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com>
>Reply-To: gherron at islandtraining.com
>To: "peter leonard" <pfleonard at hotmail.com>, python-list at python.org
>Subject: Re: Begineer Question : Global string substitution with re
>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:40:06 -0700
>
>On Monday 22 September 2003 02:22 am, peter leonard wrote:
> > Hi,
> > This is a basic question but I can't figure out what is wron - even 
>after
> > reading the documentation. I have a script that normalizes strings. One 
>of
> > the steps is to convert all fractions too the tag 'fraction'. For 
>example :
> >
> > import re
> > line = "This is the first ratio, 170/37, and this is the second  170/37 
>"
> >
> >
> > def normalise(text):
> >
> >     #Tag fractions
> >     fraction = r'(\s+\d+\/\d+\s+)'
> >     regfr = re.compile(fraction)
> >     text = regfr.sub(" |fraction| ",text)
> >
> >     #Remove punctuation
> >     punc = r'\,'
> >     regpunc = re.compile(punc)
> >     text = regpunc.sub("",text)
> >
> >     return text
> >
> > print line,"\n"
> > print normalise(line),"\n"
> >
> >
> > The output from this script is :
> >
> > This is the first ratio, 170/37, and this is the second  170/37
> >
> > This is the first ratio 170/37 and this is the second |fraction|
> >
> >
> > I can't understand why only one of the fractions gets substituted. The
> > documentation for sub states that the default argument for sub is 0 
>which
> > means replace all occurences. The output of my script should be :
> >
> > This is the first ratio |fraction| and this is the second |fraction|
>
>The problem is that your regular expression ends with "\s+".  This means
>the digits of the fraction *must* be followed by at least one space,
>and the digits of your first fraction are followed by a comma and not
>a space.
>
>Your re is matching spaces--fraction--spaces.  I'd guess that you
>don't really want to match spaces on either side of the fraction.
>
>Gary Herron
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now 
FREE!  http://msnmessenger-download.com





From Spam.Buster at web.de  Fri Sep  5 22:06:52 2003
From: Spam.Buster at web.de (Lars Behrens)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 04:06:52 +0200
Subject: list to string
Message-ID: <bjbfdu$hjsrl$1@ID-95936.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi there!

I need help for cgi-script.

I've been fiddling around for quite a while, searched through lots of 
doc. But I didn't get it:

Can someone point me a way to change a list with arbitrary number of 
items to a string :

   vals = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc']
   valstring = 'aaa, bbb, ccc'

Seems easy at the first glance, but...

Tia
Lars




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Sep  3 09:43:47 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 15:43:47 +0200
Subject: Arguments of function as out
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <wzoey20yy4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "Birgit Rahm" <br_y at yahoo.de> (BR) wrote:

BR> Hallo Newsgroup,

BR> I have the following problem:
BR> I work with Python 2.2 and invoke functions via CORBA ( I use
BR> onmiORB/omniORBpy) on a server.
BR> The server provides me a function, where the 3 arguments are out-arguments
BR> and the return is void / None.
BR> How can I get these out arguments?
BR> I have read that every argument is seen as local to the function and
BR> can not be used as return value.
BR> (I can't redesign the server function.)
BR> Can I make the 3 arguments global before they were used in the function?
BR> Does this help me?
BR> Or what can I do?

This is described in the Python language binding:

Operations of an interface map to methods available on the object references.
Parameters with a parameter attribute of in or inout are passed from left to
right to the method, skipping out parameters. The return value of a method
depends on the number of out parameters and the return type. If the
operation returns a value, this value forms the first result value. All
inout or out parameters form consecutive result values. The method result
depends then on the number of result values:

* If there is no result value, the method returns None.
* If there is exactly one result value, it is returned as a single value.
* If there is more than one result value, all of them are packed into a
  tuple, and this tuple is returned.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 17 08:58:38 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:58:38 +0300
Subject: scp in python
References: <bk9ho8$hau$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <q8mgmv89ldtk7b6e2fkcvir0se10rr2o8l@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:49:36 +0200, rumours say that "Michael"
<qwerty at tiscalimail.nl> might have written:

>Is there a scp (ssh) written in Python ?

import google
google.search("python ssh")
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From nospam at here.com  Mon Sep  1 13:20:30 2003
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 18:20:30 +0100
Subject: Image on disabled button
Message-ID: <1062436629.69505.0@dyke.uk.clara.net>

Is there a known problem with images on disabled buttons on Tk8.4.4 ?

If I create a button widget using a bitmap as the image and make the button
disabled, not all of the image becomes stippled. The 3 left hand columns of
pixels and the bottom 3 rows of pixels are left unchanged. This is most
obvious if you use a black square as the bitmap.

If I run the same application using Tk8.3.4 this doesn't happen - the
stipple is applied to the whole image.

I am using Python2.3 + Tkinter to test this.

RT





From steve at ferg.org  Mon Sep 29 10:17:19 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 07:17:19 -0700
Subject: Google newsgroup "Unable to find thread" message?
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0309290617.799b800d@posting.google.com>

I use the newsgroup mainly via my Web browser and Google.  

Over the last few days, when I click on a link to a thread, I've been
frequently getting the message "Unable to find thread."

Does anybody know what's going on?



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 22 06:55:20 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:55:20 -0400
Subject: Money data type
References: <mailman.1063894475.13047.python-list@python.org> <q8Sdna1v7JgzKfOiXTWJkw@august.net>
Message-ID: <vmtl8cjg9jo9ac@news.supernews.com>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote in message
news:q8Sdna1v7JgzKfOiXTWJkw at august.net...
> Batista, Facundo wrote:
> > Are you trying to tell me that if I work always with float, and in the
> > final step (reaching the user's eyes or check in the printer) I
> > "represent" it with str (for example) or with "%.5f", I get no rounding
> > errors?
> >
> > If you are, I will believe you! (even "feeling" other way, but can not
> > prove it).
>
> Nope, you will indeed get small errors if you do this -- at least you will
> if you work with very large amounts of money in the calculations.  The
> only way to "not drop pennies" is to represent them with integers.
>
> Specifically, Python long integers have arbitrary size (they are limited
> by memory, not any fixed upper limit as are normal ints in python and
> integer types in languages like C).
>
> I'm pretty sure that the fixed point library that was mentioned does
> exactly this -- it represents the numbers in the same way as the Python
> long, but with the decimal point moved to a certain place.
>
> People who are used to scientific and engineering computations don't
> worry about this -- there are well-defined ways to avoid trouble from
> rounding errors in those fields, and the need for numbers that can
> represent arbitrarily large and small values in a compact way far
outweighs
> the precision advantage of integer or fixed-point representations.
>
> I say this after having had this point proved to me, since I tended to
> be from the "why not use floats" school, myself.  Whether in some
> moral sense we *should* be concerned about pennies in a number like
> the US national debt, is a philosophical issue I don't think we can
> do justice to here. ;-)

There's actually a rather simple conceptual difference. Scientific
and engineering computation deals with continuous quantities,
financial calculations deal with discrete quantities. Floats are an
adequate appromimation to continuous quantities (at least, if you
pay careful attention to precision and error bounds) while integers
are correct for discrete quantities. It's not a matter of "better"
or "worse." It's a matter of the correct tool for the job.

John Roth
>
> Cheers,
> Terry
>





From ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi  Thu Sep 11 12:30:47 2003
From: ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 19:30:47 +0300
Subject: Cool & Useful EmPy project, prior art?
References: <du71xunfweg.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <du7y8wvcmo8.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

Ville Vainio <ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi> writes:

> ('gclip' of win32 unxutils should work, how can I do it in python BTW?)

Obviously I *could* have checked google first, but what the heck...

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://www.students.tut.fi/~vainio24



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 16:44:22 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 21:44:22 +0100
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5XmdnSsEgZVGSsGiU-KYvw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c3764a$022a7420$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Terry:
>In any case, Parkin also used (and today defended) the word himself in
>his subsequent posts.  Leaving dictionaries aside, the use of the
>disputable word 'mockup' instead of the accurate word 'image' lead to
>unfulfilled expectations and criticisms based thereon.  Indeed, Parkin
>himself deflected such criticisms several times by saying 'its just an
>image' [and not the html mockup some thought it was].
>
>Do you really think inexact words that lead to misunderstanding are as
>useful as exact words that do not?  Do you really think the
>distinction between object and image is useless?  These are the
>questions I raised and gave my answer to.

Please look up 'web design mockup' in Google and check how it is used. 

Furthermore if I were to create a mockup that was built using HTML, what
would it be a mockup of?

Please can we leave this tautological farce at this point. If you need
to reply further please do it to me directly, otherwise I will presume
you are carrying on for the sake of everyone else on comp.lang.python
and I have a feeling that isn't really what they want.

Tim

Ps I presume you meant "exact words that lead to misunderstanding" and
"inexact words that do not"

Pps Are the words object and image really clearer than the word. The
word object means a a material thing. Material can mean information. So
we get an information thing. Image means the optical appearance of
something. 
So a HTML page creates an Image. As Does a jpg. An object means a thing.
Are we really getting clarity. My word "mockup" did not cause the
unfulfilled expectations, it was the jumping to conclusions that a .html
page meant it must be a finished item.







From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Fri Sep 12 14:05:59 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:05:59 +0200
Subject: Web server with Python
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com> <mailman.1063352060.32640.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6o24mvcmksid33t4s9b8cbsrnctl5n2o6m@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:33:34 +1000, Andrew Bennetts
<andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote:

>> Does Twisted work well with Python 2.3?
>
>Yes, current versions support 2.3 without any problems.

Version 1.0.6 refuses to install, though, complaining it requires Python
2.2.

-PU




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Sep 19 10:07:43 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:07:43 +0100
Subject: Webware and memory problem!
In-Reply-To: <tf1mmv019lp8cucqvcgtf5v9qi2svv4n36@4ax.com>
References: <tf1mmv019lp8cucqvcgtf5v9qi2svv4n36@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1063980462.1068.3.camel@m-franklin>

On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 14:35, JZ wrote:
> How much memory WebKit should normally take??? As I can see, every
> WebKit daemon takes over 40MB (sic!) of RAM. WebKit lauches 10 daemons
> during startup, so I need over 400MB for WebKit alone! Is it normal or
> I have something wrong configured? (used RedHat7 and Webware CVS
> 2003-09-12)
> 
> I compared the same with Windows XP Pro workstation. It takes only
> 10MB and uses only one process! Top ammount of used memory is 17MB...
> 
> --
> JZ


I think you may be counting all the threads that WebKit starts.  On an
older version of Linux like yours each thread shows up as it's own
process.  So I suspect WebKit is really using 40B total on Linux. not 10
x 40M

Regards
Martin




-- 
Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Sep 21 03:22:40 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:22:40 +0200
Subject: Scaling Tk scrollbar handles
References: <K96dnU3ln-RTefSiU-KYvg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bkjjk2$28k$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gordon Airport wrote:

> None of the online references that I'm using or can find tell you if
> this can be done. It's standard practice in GUI's to have the handle of
> a scrollbar sized to be the proportion of total ammount of viewable data
> to the ammount you can see in the current view region. (I think that
> explains it, you know what I mean.) I have a scrollbar attached to a
> canvas, and it scrolls properly, but it always has a tiny little handle.

by default, the canvas tells the scrollbars that the canvas surface is
unbounded (-maxfloat to +maxfloat); no matter how you scroll around,
you're only seeing a very small portion of the available coordinate
space.

to get the behaviour you're after, set the "scrollregion" option.

for some more background and code samples, see:

    http://www.effbot.org/zone/tkinter-scrollbar-patterns.htm#canvas
    http://www.effbot.org/zone/tkinter-scrollbar-patterns.htm#canvas

</F>







From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Tue Sep 30 12:09:58 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:09:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: can i implement virtual functions in python ?
References: <e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <blc9sm$ckc$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Prabu <prabua at hotmail.com> wrote:
...
> I'm new to python, so excuse me if i'm asking something dumb. 
> Does python provide a mechanism to implement virtual functions?

Others have given good responses, but I'll jump in anyway.

Virtual functions (using C++ terminology) are something limited to
statically-typed languages.  A virtual function call will be resolved
dynamically, based on the runtime type of the object.  A non-virtual
call will be resolved at compile-time, based on the declared type of
the object.  Since Python is dynamically typed, the only possibility
is for all methods to be "virtual".



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 26 10:33:25 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:33:25 +0200
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <bl1iq3$ss$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Nicolas Fleury wrote:

> I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For
> example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered
> incomplete?

Did you know about (...)?

>>> ("alpha"
... + "beta"
... + "gamma"
...
... )
'alphabetagamma'
>>>


Peter



From mirandacascade at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 23 12:24:16 2003
From: mirandacascade at yahoo.com (Miranda Evans)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:24:16 -0700
Subject: pymqi sample code
Message-ID: <59e5b87.0309230824.2357f717@posting.google.com>

I am attempting to locate code fragments from python scripts that
illustrate how to accomplish 2 different tasks using pymqi

1) when making a call to MQPUT, want to set 2 different message
descriptor values:
      - want to set MsgId to MQMI_NONE
      - want to set ReplyToQ to a string the contents of which is the
name of the queue in which a subsequent MQGET will retrieve the
message, e.g. "QL.MYREPLY"
It appears as though this would be accomplished in the constructor of
the md() class, but I'm unsure of what the code would look like to
instantiate an instance of the class with those 2 message descriptor
values.

2) according to IBM documentation, when MsgId is MQMI_NONE on an
MQPUT, a unique message identifier is created and put in the message
descriptor; how can the python script obtain the unique message
identifier that got created?

thank you.



From pweldon at mindspring.com  Sun Sep 21 21:51:15 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:51:15 GMT
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <mailman.1064181868.1628.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nAsbb.50573$Aq2.40370@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

It'd be easier to follow this thread if you trimed past content more and if
your newsreader properly indented.  A thread becomes loggy with top posting
constantly interrupting the flow of the discussion.

Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064181868.1628.python-list at python.org...
> [Phil Weldon]
>
> Phil, top-posting makes it very hard to follow a discussion.  I'll reply
> briefly here, but if you want to continue it, please move it to the
> spambayes list and interleave your comments with the text of the msg
you're
> reply to
.
.
.
.





From sheu at bu.edu  Mon Sep 22 11:17:53 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:17:53 -0400
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
In-Reply-To: <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it>
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F6F12A1.3010702@bu.edu>

Hi,

I have a question about the comparison of efficiency of string slicing 
and using string.startswith.
For example, which one of the following would be more efficient, or , 
moreover, more pythonic?

if aa[:3] == 'abc':

vs

if aa.startswith('abc'):


Thanks!

-shuhsien





From rr84 at cornell.edu  Fri Sep 19 18:10:30 2003
From: rr84 at cornell.edu (RR)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:10:30 -0400
Subject: Python API
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.19.22.10.30.395537@cornell.edu>

Hello, where is nice site that would have python API documentation?
In particular I am trying to find documentation on the function
string.find

-RR



From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 10:00:37 2003
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 07:00:37 -0700
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.
References: <mailman.1063120814.8263.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0309100600.345e1ea2@posting.google.com>

Have you looked here?
http://www.python.org/topics/scicomp/plotting.html

-Ruben

python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote in message news:<mailman.1063120814.8263.python-list at python.org>...
 
> I hope to find some sort of python graphics library that can make charts
> similar to Excel and Powerpoint, and then I can start automating these
> tasks.



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Sep 28 11:22:11 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:22:11 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>
 <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com>
 <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it>
 <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it>
 <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com>
 <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com>
 <uy8w94wtz.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <lhacnvksb6ppje2lfogrqhv30rbcahgil2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ulls92b18.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

>>Sorry, what specialization?
>
> Presumably template specialisation - such that the special case of
> std::pair<T,T> picks up the iterating functionality that
> std::pair<T,U> lacks (begin, end etc). That is what I thought you were
> saying.
>
> Or am I still getting this wrong?

Yeah, slightly.  You don't need a begin() member function in order to
make an iterator.  The interface might look like:

  std::for_each(pair_iterator<T>(my_pair), pair_iterator<T>(), f);

Decoupling is the way to go, man! :^)

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 15:43:59 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:43:59 +0200
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
References: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com> <vle0j01npmca27@corp.supernews.com> <4378fa6f.0309041125.49b13fc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjap35$odj$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Marc" <mnations at airmail.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4378fa6f.0309041125.49b13fc7 at posting.google.com...
> Excellent. Thanks for the head start.
>
> A couple of questions.

I think they will be answered when you look at the link (Tree.py) I posted
yesterday ;-)

Kindly
Michael P





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 10:48:29 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:48:29 +0100
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path  separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064540736.16016.python-list@python.org> <2aNcb.3620$RW4.1866@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <78k8nv85du9pivltsjvqu82nhv50ie2mu1@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:05:50 GMT, "Andrew Dalke"
<adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>Bob Gailer:
>> Good question. Certainly later than:
>>
>> Microsoft Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195]
>> (C) Copyright 1985-2000 Microsoft Corp.
>>
>> C:\>cd /samis
>> The syntax of the command is incorrect.
>
>The shell is parsing the line and interprets the "/" as a
>command-line flag,  Try a relative path, like
>
>  cd ./samis

Nope...

F:\>cd ./dev

F:\>cd .\dev

F:\Dev>


Notice how the forward slash version doesn't change directories, but
the back slash version does. My guess is that it is being taken as...

  cd . /<unknown option>

The big question being why the unknown option doesn't get an error
message, as it normally does.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep 27 11:57:45 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 15:57:45 GMT
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <bl1iq3$ss$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bl4c1p$c2p$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:33:25 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

>Nicolas Fleury wrote:
>
>> I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For
>> example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered
>> incomplete?
>
>Did you know about (...)?
>
>>>> ("alpha"
>... + "beta"
>... + "gamma"
>...
>... )
>'alphabetagamma'
>>>>
>
Did you know the tokenizer concatenates white-space-separated string literals into
a single literal? ;-)

>>> ("alpha"
...  "beta"
...  "gamma"
... )
'alphabetagamma'

Note the effect in code:

 >>> import dis
 >>> f1 = lambda: ("alpha"
 ...              + "beta"
 ...              + "gamma"
 ...              )
 >>> f2 = lambda: ("alpha"
 ...                "beta"
 ...                "gamma"
 ...              )
 >>> dis.dis(f1)
   1           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('alpha')
               3 LOAD_CONST               2 ('beta')
               6 BINARY_ADD
               7 LOAD_CONST               3 ('gamma')
              10 BINARY_ADD
              11 RETURN_VALUE
 >>> dis.dis(f2)
   1           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('alphabetagamma')
               3 RETURN_VALUE

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Sep  8 03:04:10 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 00:04:10 -0700
Subject: Ternary operator (Re: Ternery operator)
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com> <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F5C29EA.86D2D0EB@alcyone.com>

Michael Geary wrote:

> I suppose this is all water under the bridge now, since the PEP stated
> that
> this was the community's one and only chance. I just can't help but
> think
> that the voting system guaranteed the outcome--but it's Guido's
> language and
> it was certainly his call to make.

I'm not sure any form of voting system would have changed the outcome. 
The wording of the introduction to the PEP suggested that the BDFL did
not want the language feature, and put it to the community to prove to
him unequivocally that a very large majority of people wanted the
feature and wanted the same form of the feature, leaving him no choice
but to admit that the desire for it was too strong to ignore.  I'm sure
he was well aware of the fact that that wasn't the case, but just wanted
to (in his mind) put the issue to bed.

As you say, it's his language, and it's most assuredly within his power
to do that.  I personally wanted a conditional operator, and I'm
disappointed that the PEP was rejected, but I'm not surprised.  (My only
specific complaint is that the decision came so many months after the
discussion and vote, and indirectly via a presentation at EuroPython,
but that's a separate issue.)

All I'll say beyond that is, if the goal of forcing a vote via a PEP
with the intent of closing the issue in the community, I think that's
wishful thinking.  People will still ask for conditional operators,
people will still resort to unreadable, broken compromises like `C and x
or y' and there will still be discussion on it in the future.  Mind you,
despite my favoring the PEP, I'm not suggesting that _that_ is a reason
to accept it; just that if one thinks that the issue won't come up over
and over again from the community in the future.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ There's this perfect girl / Living inside the shell
\__/  Lamya



From batraraj at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 20:04:04 2003
From: batraraj at hotmail.com (Raj Batra)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 17:04:04 -0700
Subject: Streams causing heap crash using Python C-Extensions
Message-ID: <ee04f1ee.0309161604.2f13c59b@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've created a dll that you can import into python. The function
calls an ostringstream class. Calling this function repeatedly in python
will cause a Microsoft Visual C++ Debug Library error:

Debug Assertion Failed!
Program: C:\Program Files\Python22\python.exe
File: dbgheap.c
Line: 346

Expression: _CrtCheckMemory()

Here are snippets of the code:

// Method called by python via a PySwitchObject
static PyObject * pyCircuit(PySwitchObject * self, PyObject * args)
{
    int circuit;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &circuit))
    {
       // Error handling... 
    }

    self->_switch->circuit((U8) circuit);
    Py_INCREF(Py_None);
    return(Py_None);
}

// Called by pyCircuit method above. Multiple calls to this method
// yield a heap assertion.
void Switch::circuit(U8 c)
{
    std::ostringstream close;

    close << "Some formating...";

    // Use the close method - doesn't really matter.
}


The error is always within the constructor or destructor of ostringstream and
in the file called xmutex.cpp (implements mutex lock for iostreams) which
calls the malloc/dealloc functions.

I have tried other streams such as fstream, and get similar behavior.
Switching to a char buffer[] and sprintf is my current work around the
ostringstream issue.

Any thoughts about what is going on?

I'm using Python2.2.2, with Visual C++ 7 (.NET). The error occurs using
both pythonwin and the standard command line python.

Thanks,

Raj



From mwh at python.net  Tue Sep 30 10:30:56 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:30:56 GMT
Subject: FTP access to starship.python.net?
References: <d7fcf8b4.0309271341.72304331@posting.google.com> <7h3fzif1yi8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <bla9fc$v3$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7h3r81yz73b.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <7h3fzif1yi8.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>,
> Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> >samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg) writes:
> >>
> >> Who should I contact about accessing my account on Starship. I need to
> >> obtain a new password and access process.
> >> 
> >> I think i am having a memory lapse as it has been over a year sense I
> >> have had a need to access my files.
> >
> >I think emailing <your username>-starship at python.net will lead to
> >enlightenment.
> 
> Hmmmm.  I tried that, and I haven't been enlightened.

well, then crew@ or webmaster@, I guess.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable
  from irony.                                           -- Erik Naggum



From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 08:52:21 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:52:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
Message-ID: <20030903125221.67155.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com>

I had it, but got rid of it (gave to co-worker).

After reading the _The Pragmatic Programmer_, the 
"software development as construction" metaphor seemed
slightly broken IMHO and I couldn't get excited about 
reading it.

The authors of the latter explain software development like 
gardening, there being an element of unpredictability 
or at least hard-to-predictability.

I think this explains software development nicely.  
Sometimes what you planted doesn't grow like you expected.
Sometimes some weeding is necessary.  It's an ongoing thing,
more so than construction where once a building is built, 
it's built, maybe needing the occasional paint job or a new 
roof but those chores don't seem to make good software 
development metaphors.

Construction is also highly predictable.  If you throw N 
workers at building of X size the job will be done in Z
weeks.  Expecting such predictability from software 
development will lead to disappointment, tension, and 
possibly job loss.

Anyway, I highly recommend _The Pragmatic Programmer_.
Some bits of _Code Complete_ are also good, the "don't
flip the bozo bit" (IIRC) section contains some good 
advice.  And it does encourage one to take pride in 
their coding.

--- post400 <post400 at prontomail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> apparently there is a very famous book that every developer should
> read: Code complete by Steve McConnell !
> 
> Is there an electronic version freely downloadable ? After all, the
> book was released in 1993 , it should have been public domain by now !
> It would be nice to have a try before ! 50? is not exactly cheap !
> What do you think ? Is it worth the money or not ?
> 
> Thanks !
> post400
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From kevin at cazabon.com  Fri Sep 19 12:37:52 2003
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 09:37:52 -0700
Subject: Exception in Threading
References: <e956b5f1.0309182327.4c633cf5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5a4226f0.0309190837.48f32cad@posting.google.com>

If that's the entire error message, I'd suspect that you're not
supplying the correct arguments when creating the thread object.  It
looks like when you call myThread.start(), the threaded class you
created is balking at the argument list passed to it.

But, that doesn't look like a complete traceback error stack either...

Kevin.

meinmailfilter at gmx.de (HHaegele) wrote in message news:<e956b5f1.0309182327.4c633cf5 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> what does this exception mean. I don?t have any idea where to start
> searching for the mistake, can you give me some hints , please.
> 
>    Exception in thread Thread-1:
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "E:\dSPACE\ControlDesk\Python\Lib\threading.py", line 376, in
> __bootstrap
>     self.run()
>   File "E:\dSPACE\ControlDesk\Python\Lib\threading.py", line 364, in
> run
>        apply(self.__target, self.__args, self.__kwargs)
> 
> Thank you
> Haegges



From jhibschman at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  6 23:00:34 2003
From: jhibschman at yahoo.com (Johann Hibschman)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 03:00:34 GMT
Subject: Why python???
In-Reply-To: <3335321.1062775466@dbforums.com>
References: <3335321.1062775466@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <mbx6b.1996$Yt.953@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

yeung_too wrote:

>     I think many people spend time on Java and university uses
>     Java because Sun Microsystem spends much money to promote and
>     develop the Java language.

Actually, in my experience, students will complain endlessly if they 
have to use a language that they don't think will immediately get them a 
job.  So, usage of C, C++, and Java is probably student-driven, not 
faculty-driven.

I was a grad student at UC Berkeley for years, and I remember horror 
stories from the CS grad students about undergrads bitching endlessly 
about having to use Scheme, because "no one uses Scheme in the real world."

Personally, I think this reveals that people are thinking of university 
more as a trade school, at least in CS, rather than a "mind-broadening" 
education.  The humanities people never worry that Chaucer isn't used in 
"the real world."

I mean, people major in "computer science" not "computer programming." 
Computer science is, well, complexity, algorithms, design interactions, 
and so on; things independent of brute coding.

This doesn't really help you, but I am guessing that it's your fellow 
students who demand Java.

Cheers,

-Johann




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Sep 18 12:15:26 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:15:26 -0300
Subject: Money data type
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FA3@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- See 
#- <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000710.html> and
#- <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000911.html>.
#- 
#- Basically, if you use floats, you'll get rounding errors.

That?s my whole point, but I just can't find a good example.

Anyway, all roads leads to FixedPoint (all roads leads to Trantor, :))

.	Facundo




From essai1 at mci.local  Tue Sep 30 15:16:15 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:16:15 +0200
Subject: Win32 Screensaver library
References: <Xns94051AB966225cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <blckn3$9r7$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Super-M?ga-G?nial !

Merci !    Thanks !





From grante at visi.com  Wed Sep 17 16:07:55 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 20:07:55 GMT
Subject: New style classes
Message-ID: <3f68bf1b$0$42051$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

Is it just me, or does the "new style american girlfriend" line
from "Sixteen Candles" pop into anybody else's head when the
see the phrase "new style classes" mentioned on a subject line?


Ah. Just me? 

I was afraid of that.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. My pants just went
                                  at               on a wild rampage through a
                               visi.com            Long Island Bowling Alley!!



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Mon Sep 29 20:13:57 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:13:57 +1200
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1303744E32@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2974@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

Rob> I don't like that solution for this particular project because, as
Rob> you say yourself, if it says yes to the second question, it only
Rob> *may* be a number.  I want to know for sure.

This also works, although it may not be best for your situation (only does
int and float for brevity):

"""
def isInt(s):
    try:
        i = int(s)
    except ValueError:
        i = None
    return i
def isFloat(s):
    try:
        i = float(s)
    except ValueError:
        i = None
    return i
def isNumber(s):
    return isInt(s) or isFloat(s)
"""

One advantage is that it returns the number (as an int (preferable) or
float) rather than just True/False (None is returned if it is not able to be
turned into a number).  You're probably going to want to turn it into a
number at some point anyway, right?, so why not do it in one step.

Note that "0" will come back as 0.0, though, because it evaluates as False.
It would be easy enough to special case that, if necessary.

=Tony Meyer





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 15:42:00 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:42:00 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:51:05 -0400, David Abrahams
<dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:

>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>
>> David Abrahams wrote:
>>    ...
>>> Also, the idea of denying tuples the ability to reverse iterate seems
>>> arbitrary and capricious.
>>
>> Sure, but so is denying them, e.g., non-mutating methods such as
>> .index() and .count().
>
>Not IMO. Immutability is a very useful trait.

Yes - and perfectly consistent with having *NON*-mutating methods such
as .index() and .count()  ;-)

I always assumed that these were considered inconsistent with normal
use of tuples (which certainly I rarely need to get 'index' or
'count'-like results from).

Actually, they even seem a little odd in list, to be honest. I'd have
functions, not necessarily even in __builtins__, which work on any
sequence. They just don't seem like everyday operations that should be
built into the object.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  9 23:05:51 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:05:51 GMT
Subject: CGI -- generating images -- \x0A always added!
Message-ID: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Hi All,

I'm trying to use Python for generating (or copying) images.
The environment is Python 2.3/Apache 2.0.43/Windows XP.
I couldn't make Apache use mod_python (anybody can help?
Apache complains "The requested operation has failed"
if I add LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so)
so I use the CGI mechanism. This is the sample:

#!C:\Apps\Python\python.exe -u

img = open( 'a.gif', 'rb' ) # OK, don't make the image, just use the file
if img:
  data = img.read()
  img.close()

print "Content-type: image/gif"
print

print data,

# EOF

Everything's good, and '-u' helps not to add '\x0D' for each '\x0A'
inside the data. BUT it seems that the last print ALWAYS adds LF
'\x0A' in spite of the final comma. How can I fix that? Thank you.

M-a-S





From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Mon Sep 15 23:20:22 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:20:22 -0400
Subject: from clipper move to python
In-Reply-To: <801542245.20030916095806@chead.org>
References: <3812075547.20030915130057@chead.org> <6.0.0.22.0.20030915085400.041dd200@66.28.54.253> <801542245.20030916095806@chead.org>
Message-ID: <3F668176.2020502@teksavvy.com>

ads wrote:

>Thank you for the respon,
>
>But right now I'm still not ready using linux, a lot of my client were
>using windows. Is someone know what should I use to create text
>console application like clipper using python in (stupid) windows?
>
>Thanks
>:)
>  
>

Stupid Windows? Now, now, let's not start a flamewar. ;-)

I've never used it, but I do see that there is a "Curses for Windows for 
Python" project at

http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/

though it's an "alpha" stage project.

There's also "public domain curses" or pdcurses, available for Win32,

http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/pdcurses.htm

Presumably it would work with the Python curses module. But again, I've 
not used it.

In my opinion, you would probably have more success writing a GUI 
application using one of the "easy" app builders like PythonCard. It may 
be a new experience for you, but there will be more people who would be 
able to support you and answer your questions.

-- Graham






From xach at xach.com  Mon Sep 15 10:35:18 2003
From: xach at xach.com (Zachary Beane)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:35:18 -0500
Subject: list of lists
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbmbjl5.fvv.xach@unnamed.xach.com>

In article <bk4grj$me3$1 at news.uni-kl.de>, Tom wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a list that consists of lists.
> E.g. T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
> Is there a way to address the a specific component in the "inner" list 
> directly?
> E.g. right now I want to get the second value of the first list. 
> Unfortunately I have to save it to a variable first and then read it.
> a = T[0]
> print a[1]
> 
> That kind of sucks, becaus I have to read a lot of values from a lot of 
> lists! :-(
> Is there a faster way than my saving it to a "help variable" first?

To use your example:

   T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
   print T[0][1]

Zach



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep  2 15:42:34 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:42:34 -0400
Subject: Which is the better way to parse this file?
References: <10c662fe.0309020436.559d513d@posting.google.com> <au2dnSnl__hyPMmiU-KYgw@comcast.com> <10c662fe.0309020909.57817c13@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <t2ydnZkmJ80sb8miXTWJig@comcast.com>

"Roberto A. F. De Almeida" <roberto at dealmeida.net> wrote in message
news:10c662fe.0309020909.57817c13 at posting.google.com...

> This is a Dataset Descriptor for the Data Access Protocol
> (http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/packages/dods/design/dap-rfc-html/), an
> API to access remote datasets. DAP servers describe their datasets
> using this grammar, and I'm developing a module to access DAP
servers.

OK.  The grammar is externally fixed and, I presume, constant across
DAP servers.  Even so, if the three collection types are functionally
the same for *your* purpose, you can parse according to a simplified
grammar.  For recursive descent, you only two parse functions: one
(recursive) for collections and one (terminal) for types.  And the
latter can be inlined in the former since only called at one place.

Start with a generator function (or iterator class) 'worderator'
initialized with a filename or input string that returns words/tokens
one at a time. Main problem is getting rid of ;s.  Also separating
obrack or cbrack ({}) from words if not alway blank-separated as in
your example.

Code that works on your sample data:

input= """dataset {
    int catalog_number;
    sequence {
       string experimenter;
       int32 time;
       structure {
          float64 latitude;
          float64 longitude;
       } location;
       sequence {
          float depth;
          float temperature;
       } xbt;
    } casts;
 } data;"""

def worderator(inp): # generator, need 2.2&future or 2.3
    for tok in inp.split():
       yield tok[-1] != ';' and tok or tok[:-1]

# check with: for i in worderator(input): print i,

obrack,cbrack = '{', '}'
toktype = {'string':str, 'int': int, 'int32': int, 'float': float,
'float64': float}

def collection(): # call after seeing collection keyword
    d = {}
    tok = word.next()
    if tok != obrack:
        raise ValueError("Expected %s, got %s" % (obrack,tok) )
    while 1:
       tok = word.next();
       if tok == cbrack:
           break
       elif tok in toktype:
           d[word.next()] = toktype[tok]
       elif tok == 'sequence' or tok == 'structure':
           nam,dic = collection()
           d[nam] = dic
       else:
            raise ValueError("Unexpected token: %s" % tok)
    return word.next(), d

word = worderator(input)
tok = word.next()
if  tok == 'dataset':
    data = collection()[1] # assume always want collection called
'data' regardless of input
else:
    raise ValueError("Started with %s instead of 'database'" % tok)

>>> pprint.pprint(data)
{'casts': {'experimenter': <type 'str'>,
           'location': {'latitude': <type 'float'>,
                        'longitude': <type 'float'>},
           'time': <type 'int'>,
           'xbt': {'depth': <type 'float'>, 'temperature': <type
'float'>}},
 'catalog_number': <type 'int'>}


Terry J. Reedy







From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Sep  4 07:33:36 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 05:33:36 -0600
Subject: Writing solid code book
In-Reply-To: <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
 <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030904052221.02fccdf8@66.28.54.253>

At 10:00 PM 9/3/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>[snip]
>My "Software Engineering" class votes again tomorrow on the language we use
>for our group project.  Tuesday's vote was Java (8 votes), Python (5), C++
>(3), and Smalltalk (1); Thursday's vote will be between Java and Python.  I
>get the opportunity to learn one or the other in a week.

Does your class want to learn Software Engineering or does it want to learn 
a language. If the focus is on learning Software Engineering and the 
learning of a language is to support that, the less effort you have to put 
into learning (and using) the language the more time and energy you'll have 
to learn and apply engineering concepts.

One of the first "productivity languages" was APL. One could solve problems 
in a fraction of the time it took in FORTRAN etc. In the early 1970s a 
college class was given a term project - write a program to solve something 
related to the course subject. Some students wrote the APL solution and 
turned it in the following day. The prof was pissed that they had done it 
so easily, and forbade the use of APL for the assignment!

So beware of choosing Python. It might make the class too easy.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From dario at fga-software.com  Fri Sep  5 10:32:45 2003
From: dario at fga-software.com (ProgDario)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:32:45 -0700
Subject: Creating a PyFunction
References: <67a857cc.0309050211.add7137@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <67a857cc.0309050632.1b00bdbe@posting.google.com>

dario at fga-software.com (ProgDario) wrote in message news:<67a857cc.0309050211.add7137 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> I have a simple question I can't find on the FAQ.
> 
> I want to instantiate a PyFunction from a Java class, but the function
> is on a jython file (script1.py).
> 
> How can I get a PyFunction object referencing the function in the
> external file?
> 
> Then, how can I call the function (__exec__ method ?) passing in an
> argument?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Dario


I found the solution, it's been emailed me from Jeff Emanuel

The complete code follows:

import java.io.*;
import java.util.*;
import java.text.*;

import org.python.util.PythonInterpreter;
import org.python.core.*;

public class Calculate {
  public static void main(String[] args){
    PythonInterpreter interp = new PythonInterpreter();
    interp.execfile("script1.py");
    PyFunction func = (PyFunction)interp.get("calculate",PyFunction.class);
		SimpleDateFormat sdf = new SimpleDateFormat("dd/MM/yyyy hh.mm.ss");
		System.out.println("======[" + sdf.format(new Date()) + "]===========");
    for (int i=1 ; i<10000 ; ++i) {
      // Assuming calculate takes a float argument.
      func.__call__(new PyFloat(i));
			//interp.eval("calculate(" + i + ")");
    }
		System.out.println("======[" + sdf.format(new Date()) + "]===========");
  }
}



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Thu Sep 11 07:05:41 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:05:41 +1000
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python 
In-Reply-To: <bjp95u$nn3$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr> 
References: <bjp95u$nn3$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>  <mailman.1063224795.24414.python-list@python.org> 
Message-ID: <200309111105.h8BB5fxK012483@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Eric Brunel wrote
> If you want something a bit lighter than PyGame or PIL, there's also gd with 
> gdmodule:
> http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html
> http://www.boutell.com/gd/

Does the gdmodule support TrueType fonts? I didn't think it did...
hmm, references to FreeType in the docs, so I guess it must support
them now. 

Anthony
-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Sep 23 05:32:59 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:32:59 +0200
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu> <cthvmvk3uif5qt1hkftmp2hbdia74fjq3d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bkp40c$j0o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Stephen Horne wrote:
>   for i in int [0:10:2] :
>     ...
>
> that is, allow the 'int' type object to be sliced, and return an
> iterator as the result - not just for the for loop, but generally
> (though optimising the 'for' loop usage to avoid physically creating
> the iterator might be a good idea).

Adding operators to types is always problematic because it defeats Pythons's
runtime checking. Assuming that integer slicing would be added to Python,
methods that would expect a list of integers would suddenly also work with
integers. In most cases, they would not work correctly, but you wouldn't get
a meaningful exception.

> Also, one extra feature is that the loop can be infinite (which range
> and xrange cannot achieve)...
>
>   for i in int [0:] :
>     ...
>     if condition : break
>     ...

I'm sure that you can think of a generator function that does exactly the
same.

Daniel






From max at alcyone.com  Wed Sep 10 15:59:33 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:59:33 -0700
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F82A5.7DB9A717@alcyone.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:

> The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of
> lightweight concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there
> any similarly nice way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around
> (perhaps in the middle of a loop) and wait until some other routine
> (unknown to the waiting module) hurls a value in?

Yep:

	generator.next()

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Dead men have no victory.
\__/  Euripides



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep 29 21:33:05 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 01:33:05 GMT
Subject: Wavelet package available?
References: <2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d@posting.google.com> <z4adnU-lwpqa1eWiU-KYjA@comcast.com> <bla6kk$mps$1@reader10.wxs.nl>
Message-ID: <blamgh$n6n$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:03:44 +0200, "gez" <gez_75 at hotmail.com> wrote:
[previously top_posted text moved]

>"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
>news:z4adnU-lwpqa1eWiU-KYjA at comcast.com...
>>
>> "Gez" <gez_75 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d at posting.google.com...
>> > Does anyone know if there is a wavelet package available for Python?
>> > This package should at least have the Daubechy wavelet.
>>
>> Before posting a question like this and waiting hours for a reply, one
>> should try a search engine like Google.  In this case, "Python
>> wavelets"
>>
>> If this fails, then post question and note what you tried without
>> success.  This tells responders both that you made an effort and also
>> what they should not waste time on in trying to help you.
>>
>> Teaching-you-to-fish-ly yours,
>>
>> Terry J. Reedy
>>
>>
>
>
<previously_top_posted>
>Why this stupid answer? I tried to find python in combination with wavelets,
>both in the normal Google search engine and the Google groups search. Also
>jpython/jython, etc. but non of the results was what I wanted to use. So,
>that is why I posted it here. Think this is exacly the place to be...
>
Right, but the compulsively helpful probably went off duplicating your search,
which you could have prevented or gotten a better refinement from, instead of
this round of "oh, well in that case, ..."

>Looked at wavelets.org, looked for Java implementations,etc.etc.
>
>Btw, I once wrote a wavelets (de)composition in Delphi and C++Builder.  And
>fyi, I looked up the faq. So, I am not a novice at all in this field, but I
>just need a version in Python which I couldn't find.
>
So how different do you think the response would have been if you had started
with this background info in your post?

>So, please, think before you write such an answer. Not everybody is as
>stupid as you think.
Look in the mirror and say that, but think in terms of social stuff ;-)
And please don't top-post (ok, it could have been worse, at least you didn't post HTML ;-)
>
>And even then. If someone doesn't know the correct search keywords for use
>in Google, this place is still the place to be.
Right again. So,
>
>So please be more kind to the next poster that (in you eyes) posts a stupid
>question.
>
And you please be more kind to the compulsively helpful, so that they can
help you and others better, not waste their time on stuff you could easily
steer them away from by mentioning more context. Doing so also gives you
a chance to head off replies you might take as implying you're stupid, if
you're prone to reading things that way ;-)

</previously_top_posted>

BTW, if you find some python wavelet stuff, I'd be interested to see it too ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Sep 23 17:05:29 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:05:29 GMT
Subject: idle import problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064343872.24060.python-list@python.org>
References: <49799.199.169.240.132.1064335411.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>    <200309231952.43835.andy@wild-flower.co.uk> <mailman.1064343872.24060.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tA2cb.560001$o%2.245217@sccrnsc02>

Matthew Wilson wrote:
> Thanks -
> 
> That's really useful.  I know how to set PYTHONPATH in unix, but how to in
> windows?
> 
> 

Depends on the version.  In Win9x, you put

SET PYTHONPATH=dir1;dir2;dir3

etc. in AUTOEXEC.BAT, though that won't take effect until you reboot. 
To get it to take effect the next time you start Python, use WINSET from 
a DOS window instead (which doesn't affect the current DOS shell, but 
does affect ones you open after you set it).  Note that WINSET is only 
temporary (until you restart Windows)

In WinXP, you can set environment variables by going to the Advanced tab 
of the System item in the Control Panel, and clicking the Environment 
Variables button.  If you want to set a PYTHONPATH specific to your 
user, set it as a User variable.  If you want it to apply to all users, 
set it as a system variable (you'll need Admin privileges to do so).

David




From nowan.noware at nohowe.net  Thu Sep  4 23:41:15 2003
From: nowan.noware at nohowe.net (Nowan)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 03:41:15 GMT
Subject: spyce hangs on 'file not found'
Message-ID: <3F5804CE.3050109@nohowe.net>

Hi,

I'm running

Win 2K Pro
Apache 1.3 (IBM version, starting manually, not a service)
Spyce 1.3.11 (latest version)
Python 2.2.2 (ActiveState)

Everything installed as an administrator.

Brand new to both Python and Spyce, got some python CGIs working, and 
the Spyce examples.

Altered httpd.conf to so Spyce would handle entire contents of 
/template/ directory.  (Spyce's standard config is to handle based on 
file extension.  Want my templates to have an. html extension for ease 
of use with other tools.)

Works fine, except when I attempt to read a nonexistent file.  In other 
words, I go after /template/stuff.html but stuff.html doesn't exist.

Ordinary CGIs work correctly, meaning Apache correctly handles a 'file 
not found'

Spyce works differently.  The browser hangs.  My CPU utilization goes to 
100% and I get a runaway python process I can't kill, even as administrator.

Any suggestions?  A python bug or a spyce bug?  Reading the source for 
either is way beyond my level now?  Known problem? Workaround?

Anyone know how I can kill the runaway python process?

thanks







From paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT  Mon Sep  1 03:28:36 2003
From: paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:28:36 +0100
Subject: PyXR 0.9.3- Cross-Referenced HTML from Python Source
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062354602.22785.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062354602.22785.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F52F524.1040308@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>

logistix wrote:
> PyXR 0.9.3- Cross-Referenced HTML from Python Source 
> 
> PyXR generates HTML pages from python source files.  It also generates
> cross-referenced hyperlinks and integrates with the Python Library
> Reference as well, which makes it distinctive from the 8 million other
> prettyprinters out there.  It's been tested on 2.3 for Windows, OpenBSD
> 3.2 and RedHat 7.3.  There's no reason it shouldn't work on other
> platforms with minor configuration.
> 
> 0.9.3 is a minor release.  It was primarily issued as an "official"
> 2.3-compatible release, although previous versions should run on 2.3 as
> well.  Other features include:
>     - Per-line-number hyperlinks, to make emailing source code
> references easier and more accurate.
>     - Upgrade of the PyXR'ed source on my website to 2.3's standard
> library. 
> 
> A PyXR'ed version of Python 2.3's source can be viewed at:
> 
>     http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/PyXR/python23/src/
> 
> More information about PyXR itself is available at:
> 
>     http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/python/pyxr.html
> 
> The package is available at:
> 
>     http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/python/PyXR.zip
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 
This reminds me of my favourite x-to-html tool v2html:
   http://www.burbleland.com/v2html/v2html.html

Check it out, it may give you some more ideas on navigating large 
programs as web pages.

Cheers, Pad.





From emile at fenx.com  Tue Sep 30 16:11:14 2003
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:14 -0700
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <blbupn$pf6$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1064945567.4139.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blcns9$atqph$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:

> Along those lines, what's the quickest way to count bits in Python?
> Maybe someone has a clever idea... something that would run a whole
> bunch faster than my bit mask style above for counting all the "1"s in a
> multibyte string.
>

Probably far from the fastest, but in the tradition that you'll get a better
answer by posting, here's a stab at a python method for counting bits:

import string,time

nibbles = [(w+x+y+z, w*8+x*4+y*2+z)
  for w in (0,1) for x in (0,1)
  for y in (0,1) for z in (0,1)]


bitcounts = [
    (chr(hinibblevalue*16 + lonibblevalue),
    hibitcount+lobitcount)
    for hibitcount, hinibblevalue in nibbles
    for lobitcount, lonibblevalue in nibbles ]

bytes = dict(bitcounts)

xlater = "".join([chr(bitcount) for byte, bitcount in bitcounts])


def bitcount1(bytestr):
    return sum([bytes[ii] for ii in bytestr])

def bitcount2(bytestr):
    return sum(map(ord, string.translate(bytestr,xlater)))

t=time.time()
bitcount1('a'*100000)
print time.time()-t

t=time.time()
bitcount2('a'*100000)
print time.time()-t



--
Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 03:38:08 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:38:08 +0100
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:28:02 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>
>"Roberto A. F. De Almeida" <roberto at dealmeida.net> wrote in message
>news:10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a at posting.google.com...
>> I found that when using negative indices, the slice object passed to
>> __getitem__ depends on the number of slices. An example to clarify:
>>
>>class a:
>>    def __getitem__(self, index):
>>         return index
>>
>> >>> b = a()
>> >>> print b[:-1]
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> AttributeError: a instance has no attribute '__len__'
>>
>> But if I pass a "multiple" slice:
>>
>> >>> print b[:-1,:-1]
>> (slice(None, -1, None), slice(None, -1, None))
>
>A square-bracketed subscript (index/key) is a *single* object, in this
>case a tuple.  The contents of the tuple are irrelevant (for this
>code).  Any  tuple will be echoed:

I didn't see any sign that he wasn't aware of that.

I would have expected, given that the tuple contains slice objects
constructed from the multiple-slice notation, that the same
translations would be performed on the slices that are inserted into
the tuple that are applied when the single slice is created.

That is, whether the single or multiple notation is used, and whether
the slice objects are placed in a tuple or not, they are constructed
from the tuple notation - the translation from notation to slice
object should be done consistently.

Actually, the translation done in the single case worries me - an
extension module I wrote a while ago should not work if this is the
case (as the slice is based on associative keys, not subscripts, so
the negative subscript trick doesn't apply).

I'd better do some testing, I suppose :-(

>What you probably want is b[:-1][:-1], etc.  Each index must be
>separately bracketed to access items in list of lists (etc).

Maybe. Maybe not. I assumed he was doing something similar to what
happens in numeric - they do some rather interesting
slicing-of-multidimensional-container things over there. Of course I'm
not a numeric user, so I may be misunderstanding things.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom  Tue Sep 23 11:40:18 2003
From: tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom (Tina Li)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:40:18 -0400
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
Message-ID: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com>

Hello,

I've been struggling with a regular expression for parsing XML files, which keeps giving the run time error "maximum
recursion limit exceeded". Here is the pattern string:

r'<code>(?P<c>.*?)</code>.*?<targetSeq
name="(?P<tn>.*?)">.*?<target>(?P<t>.*?)</target>.*?<align>(?P<a>.*?)</align>.*?<template>(?P<temp>.*?)</template>.*?<an
otherTag>(?P<at>.*?)</anotherTag>.*?<yetAnotherTag>(?P<yat>.*?)</yetAnotherTag>'

The file format is straighforward. Here is a sample:

<code>1cg2</code>
<chain>a</chain>
<settings>abcde</settings>
<scoreInfo>12345</scoreInfo>
<targetSeq name="1onc">blah
</targetSeq>
<alignment size="335">
<target>WLTFQKKHITNTRDVDCDNIMS</target>
<align> :| ..| :    .  |  .                         |.  .  :</align>
<template>QKRDNVLFQAATDEQPAVIKTLEKL</template>
<anotherTag>foobarfoobar</anotherTag>
<yetAnotherTag>barfoobarfoo</yetAnotherTag>

# this group of tags then repeat in the file multiple times

If I search for the pattern up to "</template>" (i.e. no <anotherTag> onwards), it works fine. As soon as I added the
later bits into the pattern it gives the error.

I heard that non-greedy (*?) is inefficient, so I tried replacing all .*? with (?!<target>) etc. which means "if the the
next piece of text doesn't match the <target> tag keep going". But it gives the same error.

So my question is: what is the bottleneck in this pattern? Could someone more experienced in REs give some hints here?

Your help is greatly appreciated!

Tina




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Sep 30 17:46:13 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:46:13 -0400
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>
 <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <blbupn$pf6$0@216.39.172.122>
 <mailman.1064945567.4139.python-list@python.org>
 <5Mmeb.146562$hE5.4972915@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <lmfe/kKkXEPd092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
|> Along those lines, what's the quickest way to count bits in Python?

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote previously:
|Probably gmpy's popcount function.

What about fast AND portable?

(I'm sure gmpy can be installed lots of places, but not necessarily by
receivers of Python code).

Yours, Lulu...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Sep 15 10:05:15 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:05:15 -0500
Subject: [Python] gdmodule true type font size
In-Reply-To: <000b01c37a7c$b31d96a0$1f00000a@Belkin> ("Chris Gonnerman"'s
 message of "Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:57:28 -0500")
References: <m2r82ky473.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<000b01c37a7c$b31d96a0$1f00000a@Belkin>
Message-ID: <m2wuca171g.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Gonnerman <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> writes:

    Chris> No.  The underlying GD library assumes 1 point is exactly 1
    Chris> pixel.  Font metrics are pretty fuzzy, so your mileage may
    Chris> vary slightly especially with script fonts.

That helps thanks ...

    Chris> You've got me here.  Perhaps if I knew what you were trying
    Chris> to accomplish at a bit higher level, I might be able to
    Chris> make a suggestion.

That's OK, I think I have this figured out.  The one point/one pixel
info was enough to speed me on my way.

JDH





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 19:20:28 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:20:28 +0300
Subject: Python question
References: <mailman.1064873081.7223.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <22fhnvseimhu2hi5vu7aphhr52ee8724nc@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:03:34 -0700, rumours say that "John D."
<lists at webcrunchers.com> might have written:

>#This program gives: "SyntaxError: unqualified exec is not allowed
>#  in function _ it contains a nested function with free variables"
>
>#I understand this is a scope problem(?)
>#I don't understand why this fails. It should be perfectly obvious
>#what z is equal to when exec sees it. Furthermore, it shouldn't care
>#about any other variables since it uses no others, and writes to none.
>
>#What does this mean? What is "unqualified" and how do I qualify it?

Use 'exec <something> in <globals_dic>, <locals_dic>' to 'qualify' the
exec, otherwise it uses the locals of the function.  See
http://www.python.org/doc/ref/exec.html .

>#Are the free variables d or z?

d is the free var (it's used by the setvar nested function).  It doesn't
matter if you don't reference it in the exec statement, because it can
be accessed by the locals() dict whose use is implied by the
'unqualified' exec statement.

>Is 'free' a boolean state or are there
>#other related qualities?

A variable is either free or not; so you can call 'free' a boolean
state, but this is an abstraction about which you shouldn't care.  See
http://www.python.org/doc/ref/naming.html

>#What are the various work-arounds? 

Already answered.

>#I am using d as a global dictionary to store all my variables.
>
>d={} #Doesn't matter if I have d here

# it doesn't

>def myfunc():
>	z='print'
>	exec(z)
>	d={} #or here...

# it does, because of the next two lines

>	def setvar():
>		d[0]=1
>		return
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From oblivious at web.de  Tue Sep 23 04:55:14 2003
From: oblivious at web.de (Dominic)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:55:14 +0200
Subject: Mailbox cleaner on an IMAP basis?
In-Reply-To: <3f6f2cfb@news.swissonline.ch>
References: <3f6f2cfb@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <bkp25n$vg4$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> server for mails having attached EXE files and delete all those mails on the
> server. This would save me a lot of traffic over my phone line connection.

I use a Python script which is run via cron every hour on
a machine with internet connectivity.

It downloads all mails, parses them and does whitelist
filtering but could be easily extentend.

All filtered mails are removed from the mailbox and
stored locally. This mbox file can then be
retrieved by scp/ftp.

Cleaning only every hour has proved to be enough.

Since my script has been running without any
trouble for almost half a year I thought it
may be a basis for ideas or customizing, so
I'll append it to this posting.

Ciao,
  Dominic

P.S. You'll need the tpg-parser generator for Python.


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From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Sep 29 18:04:32 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:04:32 -0700
Subject: error explanation
In-Reply-To: <13df83a2.0309291345.32db8a2b@posting.google.com>
References: <13df83a2.0309291345.32db8a2b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200309291504.32704.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Monday 29 September 2003 02:45 pm, Mac Wood wrote:
> Could someone please explain this error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python23\time.py", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     time.py
> NameError: name 'time' is not defined
>
> I tried entering the following example:
>
> time.py
> #This programs calculates rate and distance problems
> print "Input a rate and a distance"
> rate = input("Rate:")
> distance = input("Distance:")
> print "Time:",distance/rate
>
> which according to the tutor should have run as this:
> > python times.py
>
> Input a rate and a distance
> Rate:5
> Distance:10
> Time: 2
> Thanks for your help


The line "time.py" is not meant to be a python statement, but is the
name of the file whose contents are the succeeding lines.  Once you
get the file named "time.py" with this contents

#This programs calculates rate and distance problems
print "Input a rate and a distance"
rate = input("Rate:")
distance = input("Distance:")
print "Time:",distance/rate

then you can run the file with
  python time.py

Gary Herron






From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep 16 13:22:41 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:22:41 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org> <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net> <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> Harri,
> I don't understand how your suggested changes, even once carried out,
> will let me use threads to increase the speed of a CPU-intensive Python
> program.  For instance, consider the following code:
> 
> solutions = []
> 
> def is_solution(l):
>     # CPU-intensive code here.  Let's say it runs for 1 second per call
> 
> def consider_solution(l):
>     if is_solution(l):
>         solutions.append(l)
> 
> def problem_space(l):
>     # A generator of items in the problem space
>     # pretty fast!
>     ...
>     yield l
> 
> def all_solutions():
>     for l in problem_space:
>         consider_solution(l)
> 
> 
> I could thread it, so that N threads each run is_solution on a different
> candidate:
>     def all_solutions():
>         queue = worker_tasks(consider_solution, N)
>         for l in problem_space:
>             queue.add(l)
>         queue.shutdown()
> 
> But with your proposed changes, it sounds like each thread becomes an
> island, with no access to common objects (like the list "solutions" or
> the queue connecting the main thread with the worker threads).
> If threading truly worked, then I'd be able to run efficiently on n*1
> CPUs, where n is the ratio of the speed of one iteration of is_solution
> compared to one iteration of problem_space.
> 
> On the other hand, I can make the above work quickly today by using
> processes and pipes.  I can do this only because I've identified the
> parts that need to be shared (the queue of candidate solutions, and the
> list of confirmed solutions).  I think that's the same level of effort
> required under the "thread is an island" approach you're suggesting, but
> the processes&pipes code will likely be easier to write.

I mostly agree with what you said.

Another approach to shared memory access is to have a special syntax or 
functions that do it. These functions could do internally just what you 
said, use pipes, or whatever. Each thread could have a name, a string, 
and then we could have a couple of simple built-in functions to send 
messages (strings) from thread to thread, peek messages, and wait for 
messages. One message would have a special meaning of Quit, so that the 
thread knows when to stop. Bascially this is all that is needed for 
these independent threads.

Another approach would be the separate shared interpreter state, access 
to which would be synchronized. This is probably much harder to 
implement, but it would be more beautiful, you could have there all 
different objects like in normal non-threaded Python. So if you have two 
threads, you would have three independent interpreter states (one shared).

It is more efficient to have one process and several threads, than 
several processes each having one thread.

Harri




From oblivious at web.de  Sat Sep 27 04:57:53 2003
From: oblivious at web.de (Dominic)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:57:53 +0200
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
In-Reply-To: <3F74A1E7.5040102@web.de>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it> <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com> <bkvbb5$6mi$00$1@news.t-online.com> <TXTcb.124120$hE5.4241274@news1.tin.it> <3F74A1E7.5040102@web.de>
Message-ID: <bl3jdk$1ui$00$1@news.t-online.com>

I have used Python 2.3 which is probably
the reason. I'll try it with 2.3.1 again.

Ciao,
  Dominic




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 19 13:41:51 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:41:51 -0400
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM> <mailman.1063990288.1776.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6B3FDF.C1BA47A4@engcorp.com>

Bob Gailer wrote:
> 
> At 10:37 AM 9/19/2003, Leeds, Mark wrote:
> 
> > I did more investigation into my previous problem
> > and what happens is that my text file has \r for representing
> > a new line instead
> > of a \n. is there a way to tell the readlines
> > function that the symbol for a newline is \r rather
> > than \n ? right now the readlines function reads
> > the\r as another item in the list and just puts
> > everything into one big list because it
> > doesn't find any new line characters.
> >  thanks. i'm really stuck because
> > i can't read my data right now.
> 
> bigList = foo.readlines()
> niceList = bigList.split('\r')

I think Bob means foo.read() instead, since otherwise the
result is a list which won't respond to the .split() call well.

-Peter



From simonb at webone.com.au  Thu Sep 11 00:48:48 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:48:48 +1000
Subject: metaclasses for type comparison
References: <pan.2003.09.11.01.50.58.897682@webone.com.au> <GBR7b.415613$uu5.75083@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.11.04.48.46.966122@webone.com.au>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:03:02 +0000, David C. Fox wrote:

...
>> B < A # should be True
> 
> Is this an exercise to help you learn about metaclasses, or do you 
> actually want to be able to check whether B is a subclass of A.  If the 
> latter, then try issubclass(B, A).  Otherwise, ignore this comment
> 
> David

Both. Well, aha, "issubclass" makes my implementation
of ge/le and friends a bit silly. Actually i was annoyed 
with "isinstance", it seems like it should be part of the syntax 
(eg."<="). Look at this: "issubclass". It has 10 chars!!

Lazy when i can be,

Simon Burton.





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 23 12:38:45 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:38:45 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com> <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vn0tpei7t9vjd8@news.supernews.com>

"Tim Rowe" <tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk> wrote in message
news:t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f at 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:39:14 +0100, Stephen Horne
> <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:47:05 -0400, "John Roth"
> ><newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
> >>do:
> >>    bibbity
> >>    bobbity
> >>    boo
> >>    while condition  # note the lack of a colon!
> >
> >Yuck!!!
> >
> >This is really no different to the following, which is quoted in the
> >PEP as something to move away from...
> >
> >  while True :
> >    ...
> >    if condition : break
> >    ...
> >
> >The fundamental problem is that the exit point is not obvious because
> >it is 'hidden' in the detail of the loop - it is a statement within
> >the loop body instead of being lexically a part of the loop.
>
> It is very different indeed.  In the second case stuff can go after
> the "if condition: break", so the terminating condition is potentially
> buried in the surrounding code.  On my reading of John's proposal
> nothing can go after the "while condition", so the end is clearly
> marked in the Python way by the indentation dropping back a level.

Thanks, Terry. That's exactly what I meant to convey.

> What I /don't/ like about it is the overloading of the "while"
> keyword.  I would much sooner reverse the condition and use "until",
> though I realise the back-compatibility issues of introducing new
> keywords.

That's always a problem, although my understanding of the
objectives for 2.4 is that there will probably be a number of
new keywords, so one more won't make a significant
difference. 2.3 was supposed to avoid adding them.

My major objection is that I don't think there's enough usage
to justify the additional complexity, regardless of whether we
can come up with a clean, Pythonic way of expressing it.

John Roth
>





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Sep 21 19:01:43 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:01:43 -0700
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
In-Reply-To: <3F6DDFFD.4988E66A@engcorp.com>
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com> <3F6DDFFD.4988E66A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3f6e2dd6$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> rhmd wrote:
>>I use Windows XP and 98.  Have very little experience with C++.  Am
>>doing statistical and other simulations that require billions of
>>calculations 
> 
> Have you considered and investigated Numeric Python or similar
> products?  Perhaps your assumption that you have to revert to
> hand-crafted C code is premature.
> 
> -Peter

Look at the enthought Python installation (one is available for each
of 2.2 and 2.3) -- they not only install a slew of the packages you
might need for calculation heavy Python use, but (to support weave,
I believe), they also include a mingw32 compiler (minimal gnu win32)
which you can use for C++.  If you get to the point where you are
optimization-bound on your compiler (which you should determine by
measuring, not intuiting), you could do worse than the Intel compiler.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Sep 23 01:13:11 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:13:11 GMT
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <HDQbb.8077$hL1.2233@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-002696.23242122092003 at reader2.panix.com...
> I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some
> point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost
> certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince
> them otherwise.
>
> The basic design of the application is object oriented.  I've never used
> Perl's OO features, so I'm not in a good position to make a comparison
> of the two languages from an OO point of view.  Can somebody who's done
> OOP in both Python and Perl help me out?
>
> I certainly know why Perl sucks in general, but for this purpose, I need
> to specifically compare the OO features of the two.  I'm looking for
> something more fundamental than "->{} is ugly".

If you're to find a major difference in OO implementations, it will likely
be with Python's new style classes.  So, the advantages are:

* easy implementation of metaclasses through __metaclass__
* super() for cooperative superclasses
* a method resolution order that supports cooperative superclasses
   and complex inheritance hierarchies
* __slots__ for lightweight instances
* o.__getattribute__ for easy intercepts of method calls and attribute lookup
* descriptors which make easy work of otherwise hard tasks
* the fruits of descriptors:  class methods, static methods, and properties
   (which make it possible to avoid coding many getters and setters).

Other than the new-style gizmos, it's mostly the same candy in a different
wrapper.


Raymond Hettinger





From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Sep  8 11:08:56 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guetttler)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:08:56 +0200
Subject: xml.sax: Raising Exception with line number of xml source
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.08.15.08.55.650463@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

How can I raise an exception while parsing with sax,
which contains the current line in the xml-file?

I want to create an message like this:
 test.xml: Line: 100, Col: 20: <foo> not allowed in <bar>

I have the filename in my content handler. I just need
the line und column number.

  thomas




From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Tue Sep 16 17:45:21 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:45:21 +0200
Subject: why pass statement?
In-Reply-To: <A_J9b.13307$x21.750@twister.southeast.rr.com>
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com> <vmeq2go7e7fq62@news.supernews.com> <A_J9b.13307$x21.750@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f6781c2$0$28881$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

M-a-S wrote:
> 
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:vmeq2go7e7fq62 at news.supernews.com...
> 
>>You don't actally need Pass. A docstring is sufficient:
>>
>>class C:
>>    "this is a class"
>>
>>while True:
>>    "loop de loop de loop"
>>
 > A good idea! Thanks!

Not a so good idea, since the pass statement is explicit (and explicit 
is better than implicit).

My 2 explicit eurocents
Bruno




From bobx at linuxmail.org  Wed Sep 17 05:12:57 2003
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob X)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:12:57 GMT
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
References: <mailman.1063781063.16709.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tAV9b.181$qK1.218658@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Arthur" <ajsiegel at optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063781063.16709.python-list at python.org...
> Ron asks -
>
> >Any other ideas would be appreciated. Meanwhile, I would be interested
> >if anyone would offer thoughts on which of the 5 directions for future
> >activity sound most interesting.
>
> Sorry Ron.
>
> Can you remind me what the connection to CP4E is, and why you are
headlining
> that slogan in connection with your work.
>
> You, as did I with my own project, with sustained effort over a three year
> period -  starting, let's say from scratch - produced something of which
> each of us can hopefully be rightfully proud.
>
> Three years of sustained effort.
>
> But we seemed to have taken away different lessons.
>
> My expereince led me to look upon the CP4E slogan quite askance.  Yours,
> apparently, allowed you to embrace it.
>
> It seems to me "everybody" who's imagination is ignited by something to
the
> extent that it carries them through 3 years of sustained effort can expect
> to be doing "computer programming" somewhere along that line.
>
> Not very surprising, really.
>
> No slogans helped me along - that I do know.
>
> It was three years of sustained effort.
>
> For everybody?
>
> Are we *required* to embrace that notion?
>
> Yes everybody  - let's say - has that potential. But that was true before
> Python came along.
>
> For some - like myself - Python was a real factor in helping realize that
> potential. I am a raving fan, in fact.
>
> But I do not discount my 3 years of sustained effort as anything less than
3
> years of sustained effort, and seem to  think that that was a bit of
factor,
> as well.
>
> And would love to see the CP4E slogan go away now, peacefully and happily.
>
> Art
>
You sir, are a rambling man. A rambler I say!





From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 14:50:18 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 19:50:18 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <p3idnVDIPrJm5caiU-KYgg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <002601c37570$e815b6f0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

> To the extent that my comments were misdirected and/or unwarrented, I
> retract and/or apologize.
Thanks for the apology. I do appreciate it. I really want what is best
for Python aswell.

> Perhaps Python needs two front pages or even two sites.  One for the
> IT manager types that you seem to be aiming at, who would be impressed
> by the corporate look that tends to depress me, and one for
> programmers just looking for info. 

My general intention was to create a developer oriented homepage for
people to bookmark in addition to the main www.python.org homepage.
Whatever domain this is under (dev.python.org, home.python.org, etc)
the main page really has to appeal to suits, senior software engineers,
VP's if it is to increase it's serious adoption in industry. If this
means a slight compromise in terms of what existing users of the site
want (in this case the slight compromise is a more 'glitzy' home page
and possibly alternative place to bookmark) then I personally think
it's worth it. I normally bookmark the docs page and let the python
blogging community/rss feeds fill me in on everything else.

Also don't forget there are a lot of people coming from 'commercial'
langauges. When they get to the Python site, they judge it by it's
appearance. If they are used to a professional designed marketing
presentation then they will react negatively to a design that clashes
with this.

This discussion has had many man days committed to it in
marketing-python and we've generally reached a good consensus.

> The comments page *is* live, not an image.  It was also unusually
> painful and difficult for me to read.
> I usually don't care too much what people do with their pages.  If I
> can't read it, I move on to one of the millions of others vying for my
> attention.  However, python.org is one I visit a lot (top 5, surely)
> and I really care about being able to continue reading it.
Apologies if you had problems but, as I've said, I don't really have
time to apply lots of work to my home page. It's a sign of my
commitment to Python that I've been working for 8 weeks on it
whilst my own site has been like you see it.

Tim Parkin






From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Sep 11 11:36:31 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:36:31 +0300
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <3F5EB3C1.6020107@teksavvy.com> <200309100540.h8A5epgD030889@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1063208239.26081.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cj51mvobt5it1iq18l1hca38hhor46tbn6@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:35:47 -0500, rumours say that Skip Montanaro
<skip at pobox.com> might have written:

>I think Fred Drake deserves a raise!

OK, let's double his salary :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From llothar at web.de  Mon Sep  1 14:31:45 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 11:31:45 -0700
Subject: Traversing the object space.
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309011031.5e56000b@posting.google.com>

Ruby has a nice function that can traverse the complete object space
of your program.

Is there anything like this in python ? It seems to be not in the
standart library but maybe i can find a short script somewhere else.

It is a nice way for to do some memory checks to find out if a part of
your app is generating too much objects.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep  2 12:14:46 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:14:46 -0500
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
In-Reply-To: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com>
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030902161441.GD17554@unpythonic.net>

For a language to be "right" for me, it must satisfy a lot of qualities.

One of them is some notion of freedom.  For instance, will I be left
high and dry if I want to use this language on some new device or
system architecture?  (For instance, when I start buying Itanium or
Opteron servers to replace my racks of decrepit Xeons..)

Here are two ways I can be pretty sure this won't happen:
* Can I have the source code? (C, C++, Python, Perl)  I'll port it to
  my new platform.
* Is there already a standard with multiple working implementations?
  (C, C++, C#, Python)  This multiplies the chances that some
  implementation will be ported to my new platform.

As far as I can tell, the Rebol folks don't include source code with any
of their licensing options (SDK, etc), and it doesn't look like their
documentation gives enough information for a third-party to write their
own implementation either.

Of course, for those who already rely on single-source software with no
source-code availability (*cough*microsoft*cough*), maybe this isn't
such a big deal.  But having been prevented from upgrading to a modern
version of a compiler by a no-source third-party C++ library recently, 
I don't relish the idea of being reduced to begging for a recompiled
version of commercial software again.

Jeff




From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Wed Sep 17 02:45:05 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:45:05 +0300
Subject: Can Python Module Locate Itself?
References: <VYR9b.1109$c17.866@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <87isnrj4lq.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

sj <_remove_jones57 at swbell.net> writes:

> I have written several small shell utilities in Python and typically use 
> comments at the start of the source file as documentation. A command line 
> option allows the user to read this documentation.  The problem is that I 
> have to explicitly code the source files location within the source which 
> is not very portable.  Is there anyway for a python module to locate its 
> own source ?

I don't know about locating source, but does the documentation have to
be in comments? I think documentation strings exist for this purpose.

example.py:
"""
This is an example file. By using command line argument '-h' user can
print this documentation.
"""
import sys
if sys.argv[1] == "-h":
    print __doc__




-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 01:08:06 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:08:06 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <r2Qbb.195$eB.185@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <18kvmvobs9jsq50o91m35cveu49heev7mh@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:33:27 GMT, "M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote:

>If it was up to me, I would propose
>
>until <condition>:
>    <statements>
>
>as an equivalent to:
>
><statements>
>while not <condition>:
>    <statements>

If your reason for using 'until' is simply to test for 'while not',
then this doesn't make sense.

I assume you intend the 'until' to be a postcondition rather than a
precondition. Writing this at the start of the loop suggests that it
is a precondition (the word 'until' does not automatically imply a
postcondition). I want the condition to be written at the location
where it is tested - for a postcondition this means the end. Which
means you still need something to mark the start of the loop, and you
end up with...

  loop:
    <statements>
  until <condition> :

Nothing wrong with that in particular of course, but it's not so
different to the 'break if' I proposed. No different at all, in fact,
except using a different name and...

>loop:
>   <statements>
>
>for the enless loop, instead of ugly 'while True'.

I have no problem with that in principle, except that adding new
keywords can be a problem in itself. 'break if' avoids having a new
'until' keyword, and does not require a 'loop' keyword to replace the
'while'. Having a 'loop' keyword could be a good thing or not - it's a
different issue.

Of course, it might be acceptable to make the condition in the 'while'
optional, so you could write...

  while :
    <statements>
  break if <condition> :


But then there would be the whole explicit-is-better-than-implicit
thing - I seriously doubt it would be accepted.

Alternatively...

  for ever :
    <statements>
  break if <condition> :

The 'ever' wouldn't need to be a keyword - the lack of the 'in'
clearly differentiates it from existing 'for' loops so Python could
just validate the identifier name if it finds a colon where it expects
the 'in'.

You're suggestion of 'loop' certainly looks better than either of
these, but my suspicion is that looking good wouldn't outweigh the
need to avoid adding too many new keywords ("loop" may be used a lot
as an identifier name).


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Sep 30 08:46:07 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:46:07 +0200
Subject: os.mkdir() not creating . and ..
References: <pan.2003.09.30.12.40.50.914979@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.30.12.46.07.455836@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:40:56 +0200 schrieb Thomas Guettler:

> Hi!
> 
> Sometimes os.mkdir() does not create . and .. 
> 
> Before the mkdir() I do shutil.rmtree()
> 
> The filesystem is NFS, Linux 2.4.20-4GB (NFS-client)
> Python: 2.2.2
> 
> Anyone seen something like this before?

me again: It happens on the shell, too. I seems
to be an NFS problem. Not python related.

 Sorry,
   Thomas




From and-google at doxdesk.com  Tue Sep 23 03:31:38 2003
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 00:31:38 -0700
Subject: <?standalone yes?>
References: <3f6f32b9@post.newsfeed.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0309222331.3c74027@posting.google.com>

Lonnie, SRC employee <lonnies at tgf.tc.faa.gov> wrote:

> I can figure out how to set the standalone attribute in the <? xml
> version="1.0 ?> tag eg <?xml version="1.0" standalone="yes" ?>

To set this in DOM terms you would need to use the DOM Level 3 Core
property 'xmlStandalone' on the Document object, see:

  http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Core/core.html#Document3-standalone

However, DOM3 is still in Working Draft (though hopefully not for
much longer), and it's not yet supported by minidom. If you don't mind
trying a different DOM implementation, this one supports it:

  http://www.doxdesk.com/software/py/pxdom.html

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/



From eltronic at juno.com  Thu Sep 18 22:10:02 2003
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:10:02 -0400
Subject: Anybody else having problem *sending* mail to this list?
Message-ID: <20030918.221008.-448501.0.eltronic@juno.com>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:39:39 -0500 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> 
>  Terry> Yes, a worldwide virus-induced mail blizzard.  
> 
> This has been my biggest gripe about the damn virus.
> The virus  itself was 
> no problem for me since I don't use Windows, 
[...]
> Shouldn't virus scanners simply eat the virus 
>  and not send another mail? 

its seems an obvious futility to send a notice 
from a spoofed header. it may be useful to
request the steps & reg files necessary to turn off
this misfeature from the various virus scanner ceo's.
although I hesitate to suggest everyone bounce
these notices with yet another email telling admins
how to stop contributing to the problem. 
better idea would be to delay any bounce a few days.
instant notification is no help in any case.
any notice could be just sent to the postmaster.
since nobodys in charge I guess its like too much
water, you build a dam or live with the flooding.


heres one that gets it, but no solution in sight.
"Why (some) anti-virus companies are to blame for 
the recent e-mail flood"
http://www.f-prot.com/news/gen_news/open_letter_10sept2003.html



e
please forward all spam  to "uce at ftc.gov"<help at ftc.gov>

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!




From timr at probo.com  Thu Sep 11 00:35:30 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:35:30 -0700
Subject: datetime: .datetime-.datetime = .timedelta, .time-.time=TypeError ?
References: <esuolvc6tuuhfub8jtobffv722281t7p56@4ax.com> <mailman.1063083624.8315.python-list@python.org> <fc0rlv8j6404s4k2l1f2c3ajhvnmjmodf8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <lquvlvs04c6kro7nb5doju93hvcsqhm6s6@4ax.com>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote:
>-- 
>TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
>Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.

Can you please end my suspense and explain what TZOTZIOY means?  Some how,
"Time Zone Out, Time Zone In, One Year" just doesn't cut it.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Sep 10 14:02:14 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:02:14 -0400
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
References: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1063132305.28723.python-list@python.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.50.0309100947550.1659-100000@fileserver.cluster.local>
 <wM2X/kKkXQ6e092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <mc2X/kKkXELa092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

|mro = getattr(obj, "mro", None)
|if mro:
|	for i in mro:
|		func = getattr(i, "function")
|		if func:
|			return func(*args, **kw)
|#Fall through
|return getattr(type(obj), "function")(obj, *args, **kw)

Pretty much, but it looks like you have a couple errors in your example.
I think this is better (also undertested):

    def callmeth(obj, methname, *args, **kw):
        meth = obj.__dict__.get(methname)
        if meth is not None:            # Might be in object's dict
            return meth(*args, **kw)
        if hasattr(obj, "mro"):         # Might be in the ancestry
            for klass in obj.mro():
                meth = getattr(klass, methname)
                if meth is not None:
                    return meth(*args, **kw)
        # Or finally, look in class of obj
        return getattr(type(obj), methname)(*args, **kw)

I think this does roughly the right thing if a non-callable "meth" is
encountered.

Yours, David...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From mitchchapman at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 11 21:19:52 2003
From: mitchchapman at earthlink.net (Mitch Chapman)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:19:52 GMT
Subject: python on mac (os x): application automation
In-Reply-To: <bjr0bd$284m$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
References: <bjr0bd$284m$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3F611F6E.9060302@earthlink.net>

Leo wrote:
> hi there
> 
> i have just started with mac development and i use applescript at the moment
> for iTunes and iPhoto automation.
> 
> but i'd like to do it from python. does anybody know weather  that's
> possible and if there is a add on for that?
> 
> thanks, leo
> 
> 

Bob Ippolito has built aeve for just such purposes.
He recently announced aeve 0.0.3; you can find the announcement
here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/2003-September/008692.html

Because I am lazy and do not read documentation :) I just downloaded
all of the source distributions from his website.  He also provides
binary distributions, which can be installed using PackageManager.

To build aeve for Python 2.3 from source, you'll need to
download and install each of these tarballs, using the usual
'sudo python setup.py install' incantations:

http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/Pyrex-0.8.2.tgz
http://undefined.org/python/TECManager-0.1.tgz
http://undefined.org/python/LaunchServices-0.1.tgz
http://undefined.org/python/aeve-0.0.3.tgz

Bob's announcement includes sample code showing how to get the
name of the currently-playing iTunes track.  He also provided the
following variation, which works if you happen to be playing
no tracks:

#!/usr/bin/env pythonw
import aeve
iTunes = aeve.talkto('com.apple.iTunes')
if iTunes.player_state == 'playing':
     print iTunes.current_track.name
else:
     print "iTunes is not currently playing a track"

Please also note that, in order to use aeve, you will
probably need to invoke python as pythonw (or run from within
a MacPython IDE) so you can talk to the window manager.

--
Mitch




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 08:00:15 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:00:15 +0100
Subject: Jython class names
References: <zsNtMLAchYX$EwY3@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <bjk2fk$38o$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <WYZkBWAPDcX$Ewf4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <bjk2fk$38o$07$1 at news.t-online.com>, Peter Otten
<__peter__ at web.de> writes
>Robin Becker wrote:
>
>> I recently came across a problem with porting to Jython
>> 
>> basically the following is prints 1 in CPython, but not in Jython.
>> 
>> class C:
>>         pass
>> 
>> red = C()
>> print red.__class__.__name__ is 'C'
>> 
>> 
>> it seems that Jython doesn't intern names in the same way or instances
>> are not constructed in the same way. Is the above test robust or should
>> I always be using == for testing class names?
>
>I have no Jython around, but I expect the following to always work:
>

I just tried and wow


>>>> class C: pass
>...
>>>> C().__class__.__name__ is C.__name__
>True

it doesn't work

C:\jython-2.1>jython
Jython 2.1 on java1.4.2 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class C: pass
...
>>> C().__class__.__name__ is C.__name__
0
>>> C().__class__.__name__ == C.__name__
1
>>>



......
>
>(Of course isinstance() will also return True for subclass instances)
>
>Peter
We're using the name tests in case we get the class from different
import paths.
-- 
Robin Becker



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 10 03:25:33 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:25:33 GMT
Subject: CGI -- generating images -- \x0A always added!
References: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com> <mailman.1063167315.23982.python-list@python.org> <xJz7b.17514$ip5.1282848@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <NlA7b.17517$ip5.1283526@twister.southeast.rr.com>

I'm very sorry. Of course it was my fault. I forgot import sys :) This code works. Thank you all!

sys.stdout.write( "Content-type: image/gif\n\n" )
sys.stdout.write( data )
sys.stdout.flush() # or close()



"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:xJz7b.17514$ip5.1282848 at twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > >>> print "foo",;sys.stdout.softspace = 0
>
> This doesn't work. \x0A is added anyways. And from what I've read it shoudn't work -- it influences only the blank BEFORE each
print
> that doesn't go after NL.
>
> >  sys.stdout.write( "Content-type: image/gif\n\n" )
> >  sys.stdout.write( data )
> >  sys.stdout.close()            # or flush()
>
> Doesn't work at all. Server error. Premature end of script headers.
>
>
>





From naesten at myrealbox.com  Wed Sep 10 19:16:00 2003
From: naesten at myrealbox.com (Samuel Bronson)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 23:16:00 GMT
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.10.23.15.56.933429@myrealbox.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:40:37 -0700, achris wrote:

> 
> The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of lightweight
> concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there any similarly nice
> way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around (perhaps in the middle of
> a loop) and wait until some other routine (unknown to the waiting module)
> hurls a value in?
> 
> If this is not implemented now, is there any chance that it's on the list
> of things to come?
> 
> 
> Al

Well, aside from Stackless's microthreading, you might want to check out
Twisted -- it isn't as magical as yield, but it gets the job done pretty
well.



From jwbiagio at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 30 00:37:55 2003
From: jwbiagio at sbcglobal.net (Joshua W. Biagio)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:37:55 -0700
Subject: BaseHTTPServer/SimpleHTTPServer HTTP/1.1 support?
Message-ID: <000e01c3870c$9e4ba220$870a0a0a@wavicle7q777ds>

Hello all,

I am having difficulty getting the HTTP/1.1 support (i.e. pipelining and persistent connections) for the BaseHTTPServer library to work. When I change the line for the protocol in BaseHTTPServer from "HTTP/1.0" to "HTTP/1.1", the SimpleHTTPServer program can still serve directory listings and even graphics files, but it hangs when I try to browse to an HTML file. I have a directory of web pages that I use to test servers (such as Medusa and Quixote, etc.), and the python library functions Base/SimpleHTTPServer work fine in HTTP/1.0 mode but not in HTTP/1.1 mode. I am using Python 2.3 under Windows XP. Has anyone seen behavior or does anyone have a fix? 

Thank you for any information in this matter-

jwb
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From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Sep 21 17:18:20 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:18:20 GMT
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com> <bkc5lv$5c4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <HBF.20030918w8nt@bombur.uio.no> <bkcbdu$l0c$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <HBF.200309217by@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <wAobb.135308$R32.4217650@news2.tin.it>

nospam wrote:

> JCM wrote:
>>   >>> def foo():
>>   ...   x = [3]
>>   ...   def bar():
>>   ...     x[0] += 1
>>   (...)
>> 
>> This is actually one of my biggest complaints about Python.  I'd like
>> syntactic disambiguation between definition and assignment in order to
>> have control over which scope you're assigning into.
> 
> Maybe Python could be changed to let 'foo.x' inside function foo mean
> the x variable in foo?

That would be backwards-incompatible, since foo.x already means
something -- the attribute x of object foo (yep, functions are objects
and can have attributes), which has no connection whatsoever with
the local variable x inside (some of the potentially many currently
active instances of) functions named foo.


Alex




From ulope at gmx.de  Thu Sep 25 17:15:17 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:15:17 +0200
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
References: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <bkvlt6$6i933$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Don Bruder" <dakidd at sonic.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543 at typhoon.sonic.net...
>

> I expect that either will be a reasonable facsimile of how Python
> handles dicts, with, of course, the corresponding overhead (which may be
> surprisingly little, I'm thinking... but I have yet to code that part,
> so I may find out it's going to be a nightmare) of "We want the value
> that goes with key, so we've got to walk the KeyArray[] until we find a
> match, then extract the value from the other array", or a similar
> procedure for the doubly-linked list.

Python hashes the keys for fast lookup.


> (Note 1)
> Along with quite a bit of entirely unwelcome "Python evangelism" -- 
> Which part of "I don't care how good, bad, or indifferent Python is
> compared to C/C++, or any other language. I want this Python code to be
> written in C/C++, end of discussion." wasn't clear enough for those of
> you who took it upon yourselves to preach (including the idiot who
> decided to spew a relatively impressive (as such things go) string of
> insults about how stupid I am, how far up my ass my head is, and how
> pathetic my family all the way back to Adam must be for producing such a
> throwback because I've got no interest in adopting "the perfect
> language...") at me on the merits of Python, both on group and
> in-mailbox?

You are treated as you treat others.
It might suprise you but this is a newsgroup not your personal information
lookup place.





From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Sat Sep  6 03:31:34 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:31:34 +0200
Subject: XRC, wxMenuBar's, and wxMenuBarPtr's
References: <ac4e4ba8.0309052109.15cd0f6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87vfs6s78p.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

Hi,

wxMenuBarPtr has FindItemById so 

m = self.MenuBar.FindItemById(XRCID("MenuItemSnapToGrid"))

should work.

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Sep 24 13:30:39 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:30:39 -0300
Subject: __init__ return value
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FFE@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Studying the Tim Peter's FixedPoint code, found this:

# can we coerce to a float?
yes = 1
try:
	asfloat = float(value)
except:
	yes = 0
if yes:
	self.__init__(asfloat, p)
	return

This code is part of the __init__ method of the class.

The question is about the last two lines: When you call self.__init__(...),
doesn't it return a value that you should return too?

I thought it could be like this:

...
if yes:
	newobject = self.__init__(asfloat, p)
	return newobject

Thanks for all.


Facundo Batista
Gesti?n de Red
fbatista at unifon.com.ar
(54 11) 5130-4643
Cel: 15 5132 0132






From ivoras at fer.hr  Tue Sep 16 15:16:50 2003
From: ivoras at fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:16:50 +0200
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr> <9egemvkhp2s55horjr9dfveml22158d62g@4ax.com> <bk7lfj$v5p$1@bagan.srce.hr> <3F67606B.C9A89EF3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bk7nlb$5jp$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Ivan Voras wrote:
>>
>> Ok, I gather touples should be smaller & faster as I thought :)
>
> Don't make a decision based on performance.  Use tuples if you
> require the immutability, or if you want to follow Guido's "advice"
> (?) to treat them as simple unnamed structs.

I know that. I was just wandering if they also behave faster. Lists are only
interesting to me in case I need mutability.


-- 
-- 
Every sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology
   - Arthur C Anticlarke





From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 22:20:37 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 19:20:37 -0700
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com> <3F7049D3.14C48D43@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309241820.6f2a894b@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F7049D3.14C48D43 at engcorp.com>...
>
> I ask because I suspect the best way of convincing them will be to do 
> nothing, and stand back watching as your Python prototype continues to 
> work without problems, while those attempting to rewrite it in Perl 
> waste a lot of time and never get it quite working...  and even if they
> do, just print out a couple of pages from both and show them to the 
> "powers that be" and that ought to do the trick.
> 

I'm in a similar position to the parent poster, with my boss
"flagging" the fact that my app will have be translated back into Perl
at some stage. The difference is that some parts of my project are
already being used in 'production.'  I agree with your strategy,
although the indication is that it will be me who will be doing the
re-writting. :/

It's amazing how inertia can work to your advantage, especially in a
short-staffed shop.  While the boss, understandibly, doesn't want
every programmer going off and writing in their pet language, the
ultimate test remains, "does it get the job done?"



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Sep 21 18:03:42 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:03:42 -0400
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
In-Reply-To: <xxobb.50052$Aq2.31203@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEPEGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Phil Weldon]

Phil, top-posting makes it very hard to follow a discussion.  I'll reply
briefly here, but if you want to continue it, please move it to the
spambayes list and interleave your comments with the text of the msg you're
reply to.

> Yes, I tend to discount your advice because it may be that you aren't
> considering the messages generated by Worm.Automat.AHB are a very
> restricted subset of spam, the legitimate 'undeliverable e-mail'
> messages are closely related, and the 'undelivered e-mail' messages
> caused by Worm.Automat.AHB generated e-mail with the target e-mail
> address in the FROM line are also closely related.  The current need
> is a quick way to counter the 'spam' effects of Worm.Automat.AHB, not
> correctly categorizing Nigerian fund transfer and Viagra spam sets.

As I said the first time, the worm spew in my classifier (you surely don't
think you're the only one getting these msgs, right?) was adequately caught
after training on 6 of the beasts.  You'll catch the worm spew too if you
train on 1500 of them, but at the cost of warping the classifier.

> To further explain, the bogus 'undeliverable e-mail' type messages are
> permutating and the database supplying the input to the worm's
> generator is growing.  There are at least two classes of bogus
> 'undeliverable mail';
>
> 1.  e-mail generated by the worm
> 2.  real 'undeliverable e-mail' messages that are the results of the
> worm using your e-mail address as the sender on bogus 'undeliverable
> e-mail' which then generates a legitimate but unwanted and useless
> 'undeliverable e-mail' message.
>
> Now, if you have the time to supply your arguments rather than cv,
> I'll be happy to learn.

spambayes never relied on arguments, it relied on testing.  Indeed, that's
why it works <wink>.

> And, to quote the Inboxer help file,
>
> "The text box in the Create Filters area indicates the number of
> messages that were processed to build the filters. Generally, the
> higher the number, the more accurate the filters will become."

Partly true, and partly misleading due to brevity.  Things aren't *that*
simple in reality (how could they be?).  If, after the "Generally", they
added some weasel-words about training set balance, I'd be happier with it,
but it's still just "generally".

> So far the scoring Inboxer developed on the basis of the ~1500 bad
> and 264 good examples results in no false negatives or false
> positives, including correctly classifing a dozen completely
> legitimate 'undelivered e-mail' messages in a set of ~ 400 new
> messages.

In part that's because I believe Inboxer uses the spambayes

experimental_ham_spam_imbalance_adjustment: True

option.  This option was intended to fight the worst effects of people
taking "more is better" too literally, getting their training data out of
balance.  The result of this option is that once you have a large imbalance
in one direction (and you do:  1500::264 is an out-of-whack ratio), training
on additional messages in the already-over-represented class (spam, for you)
has very little effect.

What you're seeing now is the good effects of that option trying its hardest
to ignore the imbalance you created.  It has bad effects too, which you'll
see later; the spambayes archives have many discussions of this already, so
suffice it to say here that we're removing the code that supports the
option.  The bad effects of unbalanced training will be more severe then,
but easier to recognize and address (the bad effects this option creates are
subtler -- in your case, if you get a significantly different new kind of
worm spew, you'll find it very hard to get it classed as spam, because
training on new spam will have little effect for you from now on).

> The -1500 bad e-mail messages have a date spread of 18SEP03 though
> 20SEP03 while the 265 good e-mail messages have a date spread of
> 1AUG03 through 20SEP03.  Both sets were sent to my ISP mailbox.

OK by me <wink>.

> I will try dividing the two sets of messages into smaller sets and
> try the results of your suggestion on new e-mails as they collect.
> By the way, my current ratio of Worm.Automat.AHB instigated messages
> to legitimate e-mail (which for my purposes includes traditional
> spam) is far greater than 1500:265; it's more like 1500:50.
>
> And I guess I should download from spambayes

There's no need to download anything from the spambayes project if you're
happy with Inboxer.

> and donate to PSF

That's always appreciated!

> since my daughter is using Python in her physics classes at Carnegie-
> Mellon.  Concidently, I just happened to be looking at my loose-leafed
> copy of Feynman's Lectures on Physics with a reference manual in the
> back for FORTRAN IV I had to use for physics classes.

There kids today don't know what pain is, eh <wink>?





From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Wed Sep 17 14:38:05 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:38:05 +0400
Subject: Sound, time and platform issues
In-Reply-To: <bka8ne$q0hl7$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bka4k6$j9a$1@news.peterlink.ru> <bka8ne$q0hl7$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bka9mc$kqo$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> anton muhin <antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru> wrote in
> news:bka4k6$j9a$1 at news.peterlink.ru: 
> 
> 
>>3. If there is no Windows solution, what is the simplest way to use 
>>Linux? I have a notebook and rather limited knowledge of Linux. I
>>don't want to install Linux on the notebook---harddrive is somewhat
>>limited. However, I heard that there are some variants of *nix that
>>needs only boot-CD. Does anybody have experience with systems like
>>these? 
> 
> 
> Yuz. A little bit, at least. There's two alternatives I know of.
[skipped]
> Bye
> Tobias

Thanks a lot.
anton.




From rh4170056 at juno.com  Sun Sep 21 13:07:58 2003
From: rh4170056 at juno.com (rhmd)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 10:07:58 -0700
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
Message-ID: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com>

Just found Python and I love it.  What an elegant language!
   I would like to use it for various applications, but the
mathematical calculations are way too slow (a million sines 8 seconds
in Python vs. 2 seconds in Excel VBA), so was thinking of learning
enough C++ to do the number crunching in C++ and integrating the C++
routines with Python.  My question:
   My question:
   Which compiler works best with Python?
I use Windows XP and 98.  Have very little experience with C++.  Am
doing statistical and other simulations that require billions of
calculations (taking 1 to 2 hours in Excel VBA).  GCC is free, MS
C++.Net is affordable at <$100 but supposedly has problems until the
next version (and I could only use it on my XP machine), older
versions of MS C++ are no longer for sale.  What's the most robust
solution?  I would also like to make .dll files that I can plug into
MS Excel.
   Sorry for the vagueness of this question, but I'm sure many of you
have experience with this and any information, opinions, and even
prejudices about the various compilers are welcome.
   Thanks.



From danielk at aracnet.com  Sat Sep 13 01:06:55 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:06:55 -0700
Subject: Debug python programs
References: <bjpn2s$8bh$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bc95mvoqno9jbvdi9799dneneosc6jootk@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:41:48 +0100, York <yorklee70 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Would you please recommend some good softwares/methods for 
>tracking/debugging python codes.

I just use the Python debugger by importing the pdb module.
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/lib/module-pdb.html

Of course there are IDEs that have built-in debuggers.

Dan



From oblivious at web.de  Thu Sep 25 14:15:25 2003
From: oblivious at web.de (Dominic)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:15:25 +0200
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
In-Reply-To: <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it> <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bkvbb5$6mi$00$1@news.t-online.com>

>>I and Just canvassed widely at Europython, looking for people to
>>suggest more use cases, and nobody came up with anything that stood
>>up to examination beyond our basic use case of "debugging possibly
>>buggy (nonterminating) code, in cases where we just can't run the
>>possibly buggy code in the main thread and delegate a separate
>>watchdog thread to the purpose of interrupting the main one" 

One use case could be if you only want to use a limited number
of threads for some reason.

Then you could interrupt a low priority task and reassign the
thread to some more urgent task. Afterwards the old task could be 
resumed. To make this work you would have to make the code
aware of those interrupts.

While playing with the new feature I noticed that it
takes a long time (>3 seconds) until the exception is thrown.
In contrast to the possibility to interrupt the main thread
with interrupt_main which seems not to be delayed.

Besides with Pyrex it's 2-4 lines to access
PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc from Python :-)

Ciao,
  Dominic




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 18:23:36 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:23:36 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3f59014d$0$152$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> In article <vlhtm1bmc7m295 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
>
> >> There's no difference in the sense that a method is simply a
> >> function whose first parameter refers to the class instance to
> >> be worked on.  No magic words, no "undeclared" parameters.  It
> >> means that in my demo code in limitcases.py (somewhere in the
> >> newsgroup lately) I can say
> >>
> >>     limitcases.Lowest.__str__ = lambda x: "-Infinity"
> >>
> >> to give the Lowest class a new method sans ennuis.
> >
> > But why do it that way?
>
> So that there's no difference between a function and a method.
>
> Simplicity and orthogonality are good things -- despite what
> C++ proponents thing.
>
> > Neither Java nor Ruby require giving the instance a name.
>
> So?
>
> Personally I don't like invisible, implied, automatic stuff
> like that.
>
> Can't stand automatic transmissions either -- the damn things
> have no idea what's ahead, and always seem to be in the wrong
> gear at critical moments.
>
> > Hence my comment that requiring it is more complex than not
> > requiring it.
>
> No, it's more complex the Java/Ruby way, since you have to have
> two sets of rules for what a name means depending on whether
> you're inside a "normal" function or a method.  In Python
> there's just one set of rules -- mostly.

As I said earlier, it's quite possible to define it so that there
is always an instance of some kind; whether that's an instance
a class or the module itself.

> I have enough trouble remembering how the stuff I design works. ;)
>
> I don't want to have to keep track of more scoping/name-space
> rules than absolutely necessary.

I think my comments have shown that you can reduce the
amount of scoping / name space rules noticably.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Intra-mural
sports
>                                   at               results are filtering
>                                visi.com            through th' plumbing...





From disgracelands at quietblue.co.uk  Wed Sep 17 17:10:12 2003
From: disgracelands at quietblue.co.uk (disgracelands)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:10:12 +0100
Subject: Clearing file object buffers
Message-ID: <784ab.4$YT6.3@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

In my code i have setup sys.stdout and sys.stderr as file objects so that i
can easily track whats going on during the course of my program.  So far its
proving useful but the objects seem to be buffering any text supplied to
their write() functions and when i hit an error condition and have to exit
early they fail to write and i'm left with empty files.

Is there any way to force the file objects to flush the buffer to file on
disc?

thanks,
dis





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep  9 12:16:09 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 09:16:09 -0700
Subject: Ternery operator
Message-ID: <1063124169.3f5dfcc961acc@mcherm.com>

> [Michael, shouting]
> > NOT TRUE!
> > 
> > NEITHER of your options does short-circuit evaluation.

Richie Hindle:
> > Er:
> 
> >>> def one():
>         print 1
>         return 1
> 
> >>> def two():
>         print 2
>         return 2
> 
> >>> (True and [one()] or [two()])[0]
> 1
> 1
> >>> (False and [one()] or [two()])[0]
> 2
> 2
> >>> 

 [...]

> [Not condoning the use of this idiom, just correcting a factual error.]

Well, I was shouting to be sure I was heard, because I was pretty
sure I was right, and was worried about spreading misinformation. Well,
I clearly should have worried a bit harder. You are correct, the idiom
    (<condition> and [<true-branch>] or [<false-branch>])[0]
_does_ indeed short circuit correctly. And now it's ME who's spreading
misinformation. Sorry.

Of course it's still an ugly idiom. But there's a distinction between
ugly-but-works and ugly-and-wrong.

-- Michael Chermside





From BrenBarn at aol.com  Mon Sep  8 01:23:58 2003
From: BrenBarn at aol.com (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: 8 Sep 2003 05:23:58 GMT
Subject: exec code with timeout?
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062996311.6727.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93EFE34728E26OKB@130.133.1.4>

Graham Fawcett wrote:

> The RestrictedPython module in Zope may suit your needs; it was
> designed for a
> similar use scenario. Search the list, there was a discussion about
> RestrictedPython not long ago.

    	Thanks.  I looked at the page that was referenced from here, but it 
says RestrictedPython "doesn't implement resource limitations, like 
preventing scripts from eating up all available RAM or simply never 
terminating".  Preventing scripts from never terminating is exactly what 
I am interested in.  (This isn't a halting problem kind of thing -- I 
just want to unceremoniously kill exec-ed code that doesn't terminate in 
a given amount of time.)  Also, it seems a bit heavyweight.  The page 
implies that it uses a modified compiler, etc.; I don't know how that 
would work with running interactively edited code.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown



From falted at openlc.org  Tue Sep  2 14:48:32 2003
From: falted at openlc.org (Francesc Alted)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:48:32 +0200
Subject: Hunting a memory leak
References: <slrnbkucfq.41o.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <7h3oey84qho.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnbkv5h6.i5.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <slrnbkv748.on.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <vl147iqv8kk6da@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bj2om3$nuj$1@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>

Edward K. Ream wrote:

> Here are two general ideas:
> 
> 1.  Try to simplify the problem.  Pick something, no matter how small (and
> the smaller the better) that doesn't seem to be correct and do what it
> takes to find out why it isn't correct.

Yeah... using this approach I was finally able to hunt the leak!!!.

The problem was hidden in C code that is used to access to a C library. I'm
afraid that valgrind was unable to detect that because the underlying C
library does not call the standard malloc to create the leaking objects.

Of course, the Python reference counters were unable to detect that as well
(although some black points still remain, but not very important).

Anyway, thanks very much for the advices and encouragement!

Francesc Alted



From a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de  Mon Sep  1 08:26:16 2003
From: a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de (Andreas Neudecker)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 14:26:16 +0200
Subject: My script is taking 12 hours+ any suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <3f4ff9f8$0$23588$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
References: <3f4ff9f8$0$23588$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <bivdt8$18p0$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi, even if you find ways to speed up the code through editing, you 
might want to try out Psyco: http://psyco.sourceforge.net/ . I have 
tried it recently and it speeds up execution considerably.


Regards


Andreas


Ideasman wrote:
> Hi I have a made a script that process normals for a flat shaded 3D mesh's.
> It compares every vert with every other vert to look for verts that can 
> share normals and It takes ages.
> 
> I'm not asking anyone to rewrite the script- just have a look for any 
> stupid errors that might be sucking up time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> ##############
> # AUTOSMOOTH #
> ##############
> import sys
> import os
> import string
> import math
> 
> # Used to write floats that dont' contain letters/
> def saneFloat(float):
>     #return '%(float)b' % vars()  # 6 fp as house.hqx
>     return '%f' % float # 10 fp
> 
> 
> 
> #Open file from the command line, turn into a list and close it.
> file = open(sys.argv[-1], 'r')
> fileLineList = file.readlines()
> file.close
> 
> # Remember the number of lines for progress indication.
> fileLen = len(fileLineList)
> 
> # Autosmooth value. Higher will autosmooth larger angles.
> maxDiff = 1.66
> 
> # Loop through the lines.
> lineIndex = 0
> while lineIndex < len(fileLineList):
>     
>     #Find Geom TAG..
>     if str(fileLineList[lineIndex])[0:8] == 'Geometry':
>         lineIndex += 1
>         # break if looping beyong the file,
>         if lineIndex > len(fileLineList):
>             break
>            
>         # Here we remember lines that have been processed.
>         # it needs to be reset for each geom object.
>         listOfDoneLines = []
>        
>         # Start a new loop that checks the current vert against all the 
> others
>         newLoopindex = lineIndex
>         while len(string.split(fileLineList[newLoopindex])) == 12:
>             print '\n', fileLen, newLoopindex,
>            
>             #vertexnum = newLoopindex - lineIndex
>            
>             # Compare the 2 lines
>             newCompareLoopindex = newLoopindex + 1 # compare the current 
> vert to this new one.
>             thisPassDoneLines = [] # act apon this after comparing with 
> each vert
>             thisPassDoneNormals = []
>             while len(string.split(fileLineList[newCompareLoopindex])) 
> == 12:
>                    
>                 # Speed up the process by using 2 if's, splitting the 
> string only if it has not been evaluated already.
>                 if newCompareLoopindex not in listOfDoneLines:
>                     comp1 = string.split(fileLineList[newLoopindex])
>                     comp2 = string.split(fileLineList[newCompareLoopindex])
>                    
>                     if [comp1[0], comp1[1], comp1[2]] == [comp2[0], 
> comp2[1], comp2[2]]:
>                    
>                         if newLoopindex not in listOfDoneLines: # Only 
> needs to be added once
>                             listOfDoneLines.append(newLoopindex)
>                        
>                         if newLoopindex not in thisPassDoneLines: # Only 
> needs to be added once
>                             thisPassDoneLines.append(newLoopindex)
>                             thisPassDoneNormals.append([eval(comp1[8]),  
> eval(comp1[9]), eval(comp1[10])])
> 
>                         listOfDoneLines.append(newCompareLoopindex)
>                         thisPassDoneLines.append(newCompareLoopindex)
>                         thisPassDoneNormals.append([eval(comp2[8]),  
> eval(comp2[9]), eval(comp2[10])])
>                         print '#',
>                        
>                 newCompareLoopindex += 1
>            
>            
>            
>             if len(thisPassDoneLines) > 1: # Ok We have some verts to 
> smooth.
>                
>                
>                 # This loops through all verts and assigns each a new 
> normal.
>                 for tempLineIndex in thisPassDoneLines:
>                    
>                     tempSplitLine = 
> string.split(fileLineList[tempLineIndex])
>                    
>                     # We add to these for every vert that is similar, 
> then devide them to get an average.
>                     NormX = 0
>                     NormY = 0
>                     NormZ = 0                   
>                    
>                     # A list of vert line indicies that we will create 
> to store verts that have normals close to ours.
>                     thisVertFrendsCount = 0
>                    
>                     # This compares the current vert with all the 
> others, if they are close then add to vertFrends.
>                     for tNorm in thisPassDoneNormals: # tNorm is just 
> used for one of the normals in the thisPassDoneNormals
>                        
>                         if abs(eval(tempSplitLine[8]) - tNorm[0]) + 
> abs(eval(tempSplitLine[9]) - tNorm[1]) + abs(eval(tempSplitLine[10]) 
> -tNorm[2])< maxDiff:
>                        
>                             #maxDiff   
>                             NormX += tNorm[0]
>                             NormY += tNorm[1]
>                             NormZ += tNorm[2]
>                            
>                             thisVertFrendsCount += 1
>                            
>                    
>                     #Now devide the normals by the number of frends.
>                     NormX /= thisVertFrendsCount
>                     NormY /= thisVertFrendsCount
>                     NormZ /= thisVertFrendsCount
> 
>                     # make unit length vector.
>                     d = NormX*NormX + NormY*NormY + NormZ*NormZ
>                     if d>0:
>                         d = math.sqrt(d)
>                         NormX/=d;   NormY/=d;   NormZ/=d
> 
> 
>                     # Write the normal to the current line
>                     tempSplitLine[8] = str(saneFloat(NormX))
>                     tempSplitLine[9] = str(saneFloat(NormY))
>                     tempSplitLine[10] = 
> str(saneFloat(NormZ))                   
>                    
>                     fileLineList[tempLineIndex] = 
> string.join(tempSplitLine) + '\n'
>                            
>            
>            
>             newLoopindex += 1
> 
>     lineIndex += 1   
> 
> 
> # Writing to file
> # file to write
> file = open(sys.argv[-1], 'w')
> file.writelines(fileLineList)
> file.close()
> 




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep 30 22:38:26 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:38:26 -0700
Subject: getting values from an "exec" statement
References: <ad32251c.0309301513.1b11a8ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F7A3E22.86AB0D@alcyone.com>

Toby Donaldson wrote:

> I'm designing an educational application that will run Python code and
> check the output against a pre-define answer. I want to use the "exec"
> statement to run the code, but I don't know how to get output from it.

Override sys.stdout with a proxy that will capture what's send to stdout
so you can do something with it.  Of course, this won't help your second
problem -- trying to set up a useful sandbox -- but it's a start for
non-malicious code.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I am still learning.
\__/  (Michaelangelo's motto)



From cygwin-help at cygwin.com  Thu Sep  4 14:34:31 2003
From: cygwin-help at cygwin.com (cygwin-help at cygwin.com)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 18:34:31 -0000
Subject: confirm unsubscribe from cygwin@cygwin.com
Message-ID: <1062700471.12028.ezmlm@cygwin.com>

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From tl_nntp at webcrumb.com  Tue Sep  2 05:58:29 2003
From: tl_nntp at webcrumb.com (Tom Lee)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 09:58:29 GMT
Subject: Overloading objects
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062424624.4041.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062424624.4041.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f5469c4@news.comindico.com.au>

Batista, Facundo wrote:
> In others languages I can do (using sintaxis of Python):
> 
> 
> def myMethod (self, name):
>         self.name = name
> 
> def myMethod (self, name, age):
>         self.name = name
>         self.age = age
> 
> 
> If I'm not wrong, this is "Method Overloading".
> 
> I thought using defaults:
> 
> def myMethod (self, name, age=None):
>         self.name = name
>         if age not None:
>                 self.age = age
> 
> 
> but I'm concerned about the scalability of this.
> 
> What's the most pythonic way to do this? Using something like *args or 
> **args?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> .       Facundo

Scalability doesn't even come into this question - if you're really 
worried about performance, don't use Python.

Anyway, you have two or three choices:

1. Do it the way you're doing it.
2. Check parameter types at runtime using type() and the is keyword. e.g.
if type( somevar ) is int:
   self.do_int_stuff( somevar )
else:
   self.do_other_stuff( somevar )
3. Use similar names for similar methods. wxPython does this. e.g.
def Clean( self, something ):
   # common implementation

def CleanWithScourer( self, something ):
   # implementation using a Scourer instead of the default cleaning 
implement

Hope this helps.

- Tom L




From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep 30 19:54:27 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:54:27 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <33803989.0309300315.7e132c0@posting.google.com>
 <m34qyuqxzf.fsf@ieee.org>
 <3f79c219$0$576$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <m3isn9g7d8.fsf@ieee.org>

Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> writes:

> If you are using wxPython you might want to check out this little package:
>
> http://staffa.wi.mit.edu/people/kelley/
>
> look for LongRunningTasks at the bottom.
>
> -brian

I didn't knew this address but I got something like that from
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/LongRunningTasks

It didn't solve my problem but thanks for this new pointer. 

In my case I really needed something that ran a new proccess. 

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From ivoras at fer.hr  Wed Sep 17 07:44:40 2003
From: ivoras at fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:44:40 +0200
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr> <9egemvkhp2s55horjr9dfveml22158d62g@4ax.com> <bk7lfj$v5p$1@bagan.srce.hr> <3F67606B.C9A89EF3@engcorp.com> <bk7nlb$5jp$1@bagan.srce.hr> <3F676AAB.92479235@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bk9h4m$q3p$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Ivan Voras wrote:

>> I know that. I was just wandering if they also behave faster. Lists
>> are only interesting to me in case I need mutability.
>
> I'd suggest you have that backwards.  Lists should _always_ be
> interesting
> to you.  Tuples should be interesting only in the case where you need
> *immutability*.

I disagree. :) I would always use tuples except when I explicitely need
mutability. That doesn't meen that I would intentionaly (badly) restructure
code just to use tuples, only that in many cases my structures don't need to
be modified.

-- 
-- 
Every sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology
   - Arthur C Anticlarke





From mack at incise.org  Mon Sep  1 01:08:46 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 00:08:46 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030901050846.GB14796@incise.org>

pydoc is pretty nice, try "pydoc str", and then use / to search for
"split".

As far as searching the online docs, it takes a little adaptation.  To
look for str.split, I'd do a google "site:www.python.org built-in
types", and then look for str, and then look at split.

And doing just that, and clicking once or twice, brought me to:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/string-methods.html

Although I agree, it would be cool if the online documentation supported
such direct search methods as e.g. www.php.net/split.

-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
What is the difference between a Turing machine and the modern
computer?  It's the same as that between Hillary's ascent of Everest
and the establishment of a Hilton on its peak.




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 12:41:22 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 17:41:22 +0100
Subject: htmllib.py and parsing malformed HTML
References: <G1T4b.2227$gJ.1163@bignews3.bellsouth.net> <bj1sh5$e9i7j$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <JP%4b.4205$tH.3863@bignews4.bellsouth.net> <873cfeyhqw.fsf@pobox.com> <09J5b.203$MD.41@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <87he3sik0d.fsf@pobox.com>

KC <nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net> writes:

> John J. Lee wrote:
> 
> > So, what about *your* code's error log (or the equivalent --
> > presumably an unhandled traceback)??  It's not obvious that your
[...]
> If this parser was handling a "great variety of nonsense" I would
> wholeheartedly agree with you.  However, since this HTML is from a
> single vendor and that vendor is a government entity, this solution

Oh, got you.  Fair enough


[...]
> for technology usage within our organizations.

You can always tell when someone's 'business button' has been pushed
when they use the word 'within' ;-)


John



From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Mon Sep 29 16:12:39 2003
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 13:12:39 -0700
Subject: Checking for invalid keyword arguments?
References: <roy-B6EED5.17061128092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <21064255.0309291212.1a64dc58@posting.google.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in message news:<roy-B6EED5.17061128092003 at reader2.panix.com>...
> I've got a function that takes a couple of optional keyword arguments.  
> I want to check to make sure I didn't get passed an argument I didn't 
> expect.  Right now I'm doing:
> 
>         conversion = None
>         drop = False
>         for key, value in kwArgs.items():
>             if key == 'conversion':
>                 conversion = value
>             elif key == 'drop':
>                 drop = value
>             else:
>                 raise TypeError ('Unexpected keyword argument %s' % key)
> 
> which seems kind of verbose.  Is there a neater way to do this check?

One solution - which reminds me of *slots* -
could be the following:

>>> def fn(**kwa):
... 	allowed='conversion drop some_thing else'.split()
... 	not_used   =filter(lambda var:var not in kwa,allowed)
... 	not_allowed=filter(lambda var:var not in allowed,kwa)
... 	print 'not_allowed:\t'+'\n\t\t'.join(not_allowed)
... 	print 'not_used   :\t'+'\n\t\t'.join(not_used)
... 
>>> fn(drop=1,conversion=True,foo=5, false=False)
not_allowed:	false
		foo
not_used   :	some_thing
		else
>>> 

Regards
Peter



From daniel at dittmar.net  Wed Sep 17 15:25:54 2003
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:25:54 +0200
Subject: Graphic python debugger
In-Reply-To: <20030917120146.3c5202e2.max@fr.fm>
References: <20030917120146.3c5202e2.max@fr.fm>
Message-ID: <bkachs$43$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Maxime Biais wrote:
> I'm looking for a graphic debugger for python on linux like DDD or GVD.
> I tried pdb and pdb-mode for emacs, but I would use a more gvd-like
> debugger.

See also the FAQ: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.001.htp

Daniel




From jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy  Sun Sep 21 06:09:39 2003
From: jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy (JZ)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:09:39 +0200
Subject: How you chomp in python
References: <mailman.1064022207.30931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <04uqmvo81qucr6lmevbcludhe04eb1oad3@4ax.com>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:43:14 -0700, "Fernando Armenta"
<farmenta at pillardata.com> wrote:

>How you cut off the ^M at the end of a line? rstrip is not working. 

Strings in Perl are mutable so chomp() change the string in place.
Strings in Python are *not* mutable, so rstrip()  does *not* change
the string in place.

>>> s = "abc\n"
>>> s.rstrip()
'abc'
>>> s
'abc\n'
>>> s = s.rstrip()
'abc'

--
JZ



From sheu at bu.edu  Thu Sep 18 21:03:54 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:03:54 -0400
Subject: file object: seek and close?
In-Reply-To: <20030919003543.GC9792@unpythonic.net>
References: <3F69DA35.8070207@bu.edu> <20030919003543.GC9792@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <3F6A55FA.30304@bu.edu>

It turns out to be 'cause I used 'list' as my variable name.
I changed it to something else and now it works fine.

Thanks to all!
I should have be more careful about the variable names.
I have been using "list" in some small scripting which worked flawlessly 
and it just pop up to my mind easily.

-shuhsien






From bobnotbob at byu.edu  Sun Sep 14 12:35:22 2003
From: bobnotbob at byu.edu (Bob Roberts)
Date: 14 Sep 2003 09:35:22 -0700
Subject: better use of os.system()
Message-ID: <c4e6b17d.0309140835.3408fc52@posting.google.com>

How can I make it so that I can pass anything into os.system() any
command that I would type into the command line (bash on cygwin)?  For
example, "lower" is a small script  of mine that I use frequently, and
I would like to be able to call if from python.  os.system("lower")
results in:
lower: not found

I want it to run "lower" just like it would if I typed "lower" at the
bash prompt.  How can I do that?



From dakidd at sonic.net  Mon Sep 15 02:30:44 2003
From: dakidd at sonic.net (Don Bruder)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:30:44 GMT
Subject: Advice from Jeff (Was Re: Is there "let binding" in Python?)
References: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856@typhoon.sonic.net>

In article <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list at python.org>,
 Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:

<major snippage>

> Not an answer, but advice: when writing programs in Python, write Python
> programs.

Gawd, but that's profound! And on several levels... No... I'm serious. 
But I'm also smiling.  

>  If it's your task to translate some Scheme (or any other
> language) into Python as literally as possible, my heart goes out to you.

How miserable do you expect me to be translating from Python to C/C++ as 
literally as possible? Sounds like you think the Scheme guy has some 
serious heartbreak ahead. So far, with a good working knowledge of C, 
and picking up serious steam in C++ as I go, (Note 1) I'm trying to take 
a Python program to C/C++, with a preference for C++. So far, here at 
the very beginning of the start of the project, things *SEEM* to be 
going well. I've got several simple routines from one of the classes 
converted into pieces of a C++ class, and a few stub routines, and it 
compiles & runs. 

Note 1: 
Been trying to teach myself C++ for a while now, and doing this port is 
sorta my final exam in "Don learns C++ 101". Do I know enough to make it 
happen? I do? Great! I don't? Drat! Go RTFM some more to see what I've 
missed and correct the lack if I can figure out how. And if I can't 
figure it out that way, well... There's always consulting with the 
faculty and student body of Usenet University - Umpty-two-million 
experts in 14-gazillion fields can't *ALL* be wrong simultaneously.

I hope... :) 

On the way, I expect I'll pick up more than a little ability to read a 
Python program, even if I never manage to type in a single line of 
Python code. Not that learning to code in Python is a goal of this 
project of mine, but hey... you can't avoid getting some of the source 
language rubbed off on you when doing a port. Not if you want the port 
to work, anyway. 
Who knows... In the process of doing the port, I may begin to like 
Python enough to actually try to use it.

-- 
Don Bruder -  dakidd at sonic.net <--- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See <http://www.spamassassin.org> for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html>



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Sep 10 16:34:56 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:34:56 -0500
Subject: ANN hashtar 0.1: archival encryption to corruptible media
Message-ID: <m2he3kfklr.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

hashtar is a utility designed for encrypted archiving to media
vulnerable to corruption (eg, CDR, DVDR).

  http://nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu:8080/hashtar

Comments, bug reports, suggestions for improvement all welcome.

John Hunter

OVERVIEW

  hashtar: an encrypted archive utility designed for secure archiving
  to media vulnerable to corruption.

  Recursively encrypt the files and directories passed as arguments.
  Rather than preserving the directory structure, or archiving to a
  single file as in tar, the files are encrypted to a single dir and
  named with the hash of their relative path.  The file information
  (filename, hash, permission mode, uid, gid) is encrypted and stored
  in the header of the file itself, and can be used to restore the
  original file with dir structure from the archive file.  

  For example, the command

    > hashtar.py -cvf tmp.htar finance/

  prompts for a password and generates an encrypted recursive archive
  of the finance dir in the tmp.htar dir, with filenames mapped like

    finance/irs/98/f1040.pdf -> tmp.htar/e5/e5ed546c0bc0191d80d791bc2f73c890
    finance/sale_house/notes -> tmp.htar/58/580e89bad7563ae76c295f75aecea030
    finance/online/accounts.gz.mcr -> tmp.htar/bb/bbf12f06dc3fcee04067d40b9781f4a8
    finance/phone/prepaid1242.doc -> tmp.htar/c1/c1fe52a9d8cbef55eff8840d379d972a

  The encrypted files are placed in subdirs based on the first two
  characters in their hash name because if too many files are placed
  in one dir, it may not be possible to pass all of them as command
  line arguments to the restore command.  The entire finance dir
  structure can later be restored with
 
    > hashtar.py -xvf tmp.htar

  The advantage of this method of encrypted archiving, as opposed to
  archiving to a single tar file and encrypting it, is that this
  method is not sensitive to single byte corruption, which becomes
  important especially on externally stored archives, such as on CDR,
  or DVDR.  Any individual file contains all the information needed to
  restore itself, with directory structure, permission bits, etc.  So
  only the specific files that are corrupted on the media will be
  lost.

  The alternative strategy, encrypting all the files in place and then
  archiving to external media, doesn't suffer from single byte
  corruption but affords less privacy since the filenames, dir
  structure, and permission bits are available, and less security
  since a filename may indicate contents and thus expose the archive
  to a known plaintext attack.

  A match string allows you to only extract files matching a given
  pattern.  Eg, to only extract pdf and xls files, do

   > hashtar.py -m pdf,xls -xvf tmp.htar

  Because the filenames are stored in the header, only a small portion
  of the file needs to be decrypted to determine the match, so this is
  quite fast.

  Data can be encrypted and decrypted across platforms (tested between
  linux and win32 and vice-versa) but of course some information may
  be lost, such as uid, gid for platforms that don't support it.
  
USAGE:

  > hashtar.py [OPTIONS] files

  OPTIONS

  -h, --help            Show  help message and exit
  -fDIR, --arcdir=DIR   Write hashed filenames to archive dir
  -pFILE, --passwdfile=FILE
                        Get passwd from FILE, otherwise prompt
  -mPATTERN, --match=PATTERN
                        Only extract files that match PATTERN.
                        PATTERN is a comma separated list of strings,
                        one of which must match the filename
  -u, --unlink          Delete files after archiving them
  -c, --create          Create archive dir
  -x, --extract         Extract files recursively from archive dir
  -v, --verbose         Decrypt files recursively

WARNING:

  I think this software is suitable to protect your data from your
  sister, your boss, and even the nosy computer hacker next door, but
  not the NSA.

REQUIREMENTS:

  python2.3               - python.org
  yawPyCrypto and Flatten - http://yawpycrypto.sourceforge.net/
  pycrypto                - http://www.amk.ca/python/code/crypto.html

  The python dependencies are very easy to install; just do the usual
  > python setup.py install

  
PLATFORMS:

  Tested on linux and win32

AUTHOR:

  John D. Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu>

LICENSE:

  same as python2.3

KNOWN BUGS:

  Ignores symbolic links

DEDICATION:

  For Erik Curiel, who's life's work I lost when I volunteered to
  backup the only copy of his home dir on a CD containing a single
  encrypted gzipped tar file, which was subsequently corrupted.




From jussij at zeusedit.com  Wed Sep 10 18:49:13 2003
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (Jussi Jumppanen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:49:13 +1000
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <Ft5S/kKkX87K092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1061926129.29249.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0309110205.c885e29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5FAA69.1086@zeusedit.com>

Anand Pillai wrote:
> 
> > David Mertz wrote:
> > > So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one 
> > > getting on the list.
> 
> GNU Emacs + python-mode is my favorite.
> Apart from that I use:
> 
> 1. XEmacs + python-mode, (not as good as Emacs + python-mode)
> 2. IDLE

I you develop for python on the Windows platform I suggest
taking a look at Zeus. 

  http://www.zeusedit.com/lookmain.html

Zeus has a built in python scripting engine, while the built
in class browser, auto complete and sytnax highlighting all 
support pyhton.

Jussi Jumppanen
Author of: Zeus for Windows (All new version 3.90 out now)
"The C/C++, Cobol, Java, HTML, Python, PHP, Perl programmer's editor"
Home Page: http://www.zeusedit.com



From jussij at zeusedit.com  Tue Sep 30 19:37:14 2003
From: jussij at zeusedit.com (Jussi Jumppanen)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:37:14 +1000
Subject: IDE Python
References: <blcsi4$c2i$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3F7A13AA.7827@zeusedit.com>

jean.kasapyan wrote:

> I search Python IDE with Code Intellisense

You did not specify which platform, but if you develop on 
the Windows platform the latest version of Zeus does this.

Once you create a Zeus workspace, Zeus will automatically 
run ctags to produce a tags database, will populate a class 
tree with this data and it also the tags information for 
code intellisensing: 

    http://www.zeusedit.com/lookclass.html

Jussi Jumppanen
Author of: Zeus for Windows (All new version 3.90 out now)
"The C/C++, Cobol, Java, HTML, Python, PHP, Perl programmer's editor"
Home Page: http://www.zeusedit.com



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Sep 24 18:37:46 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:37:46 -0700
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <09a3d6364c.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <2c60a528.0309240338.1e4dd261@posting.google.com> <uoocb.691$291.949392743@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3F721CBA.CF114FF@alcyone.com>

Andrew Chalk wrote:

> What is wrong with meta-refresh?

The use of the Location header is much more direct.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ An undevout astronomer is mad.
\__/  Edward Young



From essai1 at mci.local  Wed Sep 10 18:21:29 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:21:29 +0200
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python
References: <mailman.1063224795.24414.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjo87i$tse$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

PIL ?      http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

-- 
Michel Claveau





From oser at hep.uchicago.edu  Mon Sep  1 04:13:31 2003
From: oser at hep.uchicago.edu (Scott Oser)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:13:31 GMT
Subject: Account error
Message-ID: <200309010813.h818DVjI15770787@hep.uchicago.edu>

This account no longer exists.




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 10:48:30 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:48:30 GMT
Subject: Invisible function attributes
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com> <87he3tfopa.fsf@pobox.com> <51809ae4.0309040627.28d7a075@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2n16b.18138$hE5.641055@news1.tin.it>

Olivier Lefevre wrote:
   ...
> function is a class) and, since functions can't have instances, treating
> it as a sort of static member of the function, which should be available
> as soon as declared. Obviously I got it all wrong. Instead, they work

Basically only in the "declared" part.  Python has no declarations, only
executable statements.

> like local variables except that they "persist" after the function has
> exited. That still feels weird to me. What are they used for? Give me
> a compelling reason to have such a beast in the language.

The ability to associate arbitrary information with a function can be 
used by any framework for the framework's own purposes.  Historically,
some frameworks were (ab)using function's docstrings (attribute __doc__)
for such purposes; arbitrary function attributes were added to Python
so that frameworks would use them instead of __doc__, leaving the
latter free for its intended use, i.e., human-readable documentation.

For a small-scale toy example, consider an "accumulator-maker".  One way
you could code it might be:

def makeAccumulator():
    def accumulate(x):
        accumulate.total += x
    accumulate.total = 0
    return accumulate

to be used, e.g., as:

a = makeAccumulator()

for x in (3, 4, 10, 23, 12): a(x)

print a.total

Of course, one could redesign makeAccumulator to return a class
instance rather than a function:

class makeAccumulator(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.total = 0
    def __call__(self, x): 
        self.total += x

to be used in the same way.  Generally, classes and their
instances are a more general and powerful way than closures &c
to associate data and behavior in Python.  Still, Python does
support closures to some limited extent, and the ability to
associate arbitrary attributes to each function object can be
seen, in part, as a natural complement for that support.


Alex




From admin4055 at centrum.cz  Sat Sep 20 07:57:48 2003
From: admin4055 at centrum.cz (Ivan Letal)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:57:48 +0200
Subject: console chat
Message-ID: <bkhf8h$1tio$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

I want to make a python script which connects to a server to start getting
data and interacts with user in the same time ala chat. I want it to run in
a terminal/console. After I connect a socket, how to ensure that it is
writing text from the server if there is any waiting for possible user input
in the same time?

Thanks





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 13:08:53 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:08:53 +0300
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <9egemvkhp2s55horjr9dfveml22158d62g@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:51:38 +0200, rumours say that "Ivan Voras"
<ivoras at fer.hr> might have written:

>Are there any performance/size differences between using tuples and using
>lists?

Assuming you know that tuples are immutable and lists are mutable (they
can grow, shrink, get sorted etc), tuples consume less memory (lists
allocate more memory than your list needs, to avoid reallocating space
on every append/insert).  This accounts for size.

Performance-wise, I don't think there is a noticable difference between
indexing lists and tuples (but you can always use the timeit module).

IIRC Guido has stated that tuples are not intended to be immutable
lists, but a kind of handy unnamed structs (a la C) or records (a la
Pascal).

Keep in mind also that lists have useful methods (like count and index)
that tuples don't.  This about functionality.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From timr at probo.com  Sun Sep  7 00:23:21 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 21:23:21 -0700
Subject: in Ram database?
References: <v03110742bb7da1ba2767@[192.168.0.2]> <mailman.1062819310.17917.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <racllvoqohn84k1fb4o1iaavbpud478h8g@4ax.com>

William Trenker <wtrenker at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>Here is a simple example:
>
>import sqlite   #module name exposed by the PySQLite wrapper
>conn = sqlite.connect(db=':memory:')   #special connect string to open an in-memory db
>cursor = conn.cursor()  #standard DB-API-2 from this point
>cursor.execute('create table test (a varchar, b int);')
>cursor.execute('commit;') #end PySQLite implicit transaction
>cursor.execute('begin transaction;')  #wrap the inserts in an explicit transaction for speed
>for i in range(0,10000):
>    cursor.execute('insert into test (a,b) values (%s,%i);'%(str(i),i))
>cursor.execute('commit;')
>cursor.execute('select sum(b) from test;')
>print cursor.fetchall()[0][0]

This fails for me.  There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in sqlite.py
regarding the transaction state.  The Connection object maintains a flag
called inTransaction that doesn't get cleared when you call "commit"
through the Cursor, so the script fails during termination because the
Connection tries to rollback what IT thinks is an open transaction.

So, I tried changing it to use conn.commit() instead of
cursor.execute("commit"), but that causes a new problem: the
cursor.execute("begin transaction") fails beause cursor.execute
automatically opens a new transaction before sending the SQL to the engine,
and nested transactions aren't allowed.

Deleting the call to "begin transaction" solves that problem, because the
first "execute" in the loop causes a transaction to be opened
automatically.

Hmmm; this may be an opportunity for me to actually contribute to pysqlite,
which is one of the more useful things I've come across in Python.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From rob at cs.brown.edu  Thu Sep 18 18:58:51 2003
From: rob at cs.brown.edu (Rob Hunter)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:58:51 -0400
Subject: Binding frustration
In-Reply-To: <l4mcnWRY6vxusveiU-KYgg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <ABC96B8C-EA2B-11D7-967C-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>

On Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 06:21 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:

>
> "Rob Hunter" <rob at cs.brown.edu> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1063920805.24865.python-list at python.org...
>>      def inGenre(g): # g is a genre
>>          if <here I test if "title" is of genre g (using a simple
> Python
>> dictionary I have collected from a mini web crawl)>:
>>                result = result + [g] # if title is of genre g, then
> add
>> it to the accumulator
>>
>> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before
> assignment
>
> When, within a function, you assign to a variable that has not been
> declared global, then you implicitly declare that variable to be local
> to the function -- in this case, inGenre().  But local var 'result'
> has not previously been assigned a value within inGenre.  Hence the
> error message.  As JCM said, try result.append(g).

So it seems that if Python made a syntactic distinction between 
introducing a new binding, and assigning to an old one, then this 
problem would go away.  That's what is happening with result.append(g), 
right?  Because of the syntax in this statement (ie, there's no "=" in 
it), Python knows that _result_ must exist, so it goes and looks for 
it.  But, IMO, I *should* be allowed to use the + (append) operator.  
Because there is no syntax for a new binding (like LET, for example), 
Python awkwardly forces the programmer to choose either the local scope 
or the global one when it comes to assignment.  And so, in my case, it 
forces me to use another (but semantically, quite similar) language 
construct.

Does anyone know why they didn't have an explicitly new binding syntax? 
  Perhaps to minimize the initial part of the learning curve.  This 
makes sense, but I would have much preferred it the other way.

Rob

>
> Terry J. Reedy
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Sep  2 11:45:08 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:45:08 -0400
Subject: Docs on speeding up Python code?
References: <bj2can$17ea$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <pV25b.843$I_2.211439@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Andreas Neudecker" <a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de> wrote in message
news:bj2can$17ea$1 at f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de...
> Is there anywhere a concise Howto, article, PEP, whatever that describes
> possible measures to make Python code faster (and probably 'cleaner',
> too)? And possibly in a way, that a beginner or intermediate Python user
> can understand? ;-)
>
> If you know of any such docs, I would be happy if you could post some
links.
>

http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/fastpython.html

HTH
Sean





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Sep 16 13:50:16 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:50:16 -0500
Subject: distutils on win32 with link.exe -- use dlls?
Message-ID: <m2r82g4o87.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

I am using distutils to build a python extension module on win32.  I
initialize the Extension class with a list of libraries with 

        Extension("_gd", ["_gdmodule.c"], 
            include_dirs=incdirs, library_dirs=libdirs,
            libraries=libs, define_macros=macros)],

and am using VC6++ where libs is a list ['gd', 'png', ...].  Distutils
produces a link command with the required libraries as

  link.exe blahblah gd.lib png.lib jpeg.lib blahblah

However, I have DLL versions of these libraries in my library path,
ie, libgd.dll, libjpeg.dll, etc...

Is there a macro or compile flag or other setting to inform distutils
to look for the DLLS of the required libraries rather than the *.lib
files?

Thanks,
John Hunter




From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 24 21:37:48 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:37:48 -0700
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <u172glc2.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bktgkc$5gk64$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| There's a checkbox which you can uncheck 
| to disable installing the htmlhelp file. 
| 
| Then you can download the HTML archive 
| and install it manually. 

Thomas ....

    Thanks for the reply .... 

    It's good to know that an alternative 
    for the individual HTML doc files will remain .... 

    Would it be feasible to eliminate the Python Docs
    from the standard distribution and always download
    separately if desired ???? 

    This would eliminate downloading the docs twice
    if the user wants the separate doc files and provide
    a leaner download for non-programming Python users 
    that will never develop anything in Python themselves
    but who want a run-time environment only .... 

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona




From cbbrowne at acm.org  Tue Sep  2 17:03:17 2003
From: cbbrowne at acm.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 21:03:17 GMT
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj30il$eoev7$2@ID-125932.news.uni-berlin.de>

After takin a swig o' Arrakan spice grog, mnhenley at msn.com (Mike Henley) belched out...:
> I first came across rebol a while ago; it seemed interesting but then
> i was put off by its proprietary nature, although the core of the
> language is a free download.
.. much omitted ...
> What's wrong with Rebol?

"What's wrong" is that 'proprietary nature.'  If I write code in Perl,
Python, or Ruby, I can be certain that I won't get bitten because of
someone pulling the rug out from under them.  

I can't be certain in the same way of the perpetual availability of
REBOL.

Furthermore, if I am considering whether to build and contribute a
module to REBOL (where the user base is necessarily limited) or to
Perl/Python/Ruby, I'd be more inclined to do the latter.  And so there
are LOTS of third party libraries for these other languages.
-- 
(reverse (concatenate 'string "moc.enworbbc" "@" "enworbbc"))
http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxdistributions.html
Rules of  the Evil  Overlord #102.  "I will not  waste time  making my
enemy's death look  like an accident -- I'm  not accountable to anyone
and my other enemies wouldn't believe it.



From hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de  Thu Sep 18 14:28:41 2003
From: hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 11:28:41 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <87znh26z7y.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <95b4b9ac.0309181028.2e58b894@posting.google.com>

> Numeric (and presumably numarray) can handle arbitrary Python objects.

Oh. I will look at them pronto, then. As for:

> I'd guess it's highly unlikely ever to be part of the standard
> sequence protocol, though.

Passing a slice is passing an abstraction of a sequence (since indexing
a list with a slice returns a list). Given that, it seems hard to justify
not accepting the sequence itself... Passing the abstraction rather than 
the thing itself should be an optimization, as in xrange vs. range, left
to the discretion of the programmer. 

-- O.L.



From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Mon Sep 15 11:19:07 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:19:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: datetime: How to get diff between 2 dates in month units?
In-Reply-To: <20030915000631.GB27698@ibook>
References: <56819.199.169.240.132.1063397952.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
    <20030915000631.GB27698@ibook>
Message-ID: <46665.199.169.240.132.1063639147.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

This is a great module.  Thanks for the link.  What do you think about
using operator overloading to avoid having to do the
mx.DateTime.RelativeDateDiff(...) function instead?






>> I have a lot of monthly time series data.  I need to be able to compare
>> two dates and get the number of months that they are apart.
> [...]
>
> If you can rely on external modules, you may use mx.DateTime for that.
>
>> >>> d1 = datetime.date(2002,1,1)
>> >>> d2 = datetime.date(2001,12,1)
>> >>> diff = d1-d2
>> >>> diff.days
>> 31
>
> This would be:
>
>>>> d1 = DateTime.Date(2002,1,1)
>>>> d2 = DateTime.Date(2001,12,1)
>>>> diff = DateTime.RelativeDateDiff(d1,d2)
>>>> diff.months
> 1
>
> [...]
>> >>>firstdate = newMonthlyDatetime(2002, 5)
>> >>>Nov2002 = newMonthlyDatetime(2002, 11)
>> >>>diff = Nov2002 - firstdate
>> >>>diff.months
>> 6
>
> And this would be:
>
>>>> firstdate = DateTime.Date(2002, 5)
>>>> Nov2002 = DateTime.Date(2002, 11)
>>>> diff = DateTime.RelativeDateDiff(Nov2002, firstdate)
>>>> diff.months
> 6
>
> --
> Gustavo Niemeyer
> http://niemeyer.net
>





From jrbexbox at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  8 10:31:35 2003
From: jrbexbox at hotmail.com (Rebecca Taylor)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 07:31:35 -0700
Subject: win32com python AttributeError!
Message-ID: <f431a335.0309080631.43c5fad1@posting.google.com>

Hi, I am having trouble with win32com for python.  I get the following
error when I try to issue any command after using Dispatch.

>>> xl=win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
>>> xl.Visible=0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
    xl.Visible=0
  File "D:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 504, in __setattr__
    raise AttributeError, "Property '%s.%s' can not be set." %
(self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: Property 'Excel.Application.Visible' can not be set.
>>> 

I have programs that I used to use all the time and they simply won't
run.  Is this an error with python or win32com or my setup?

Thanks,
-rebecca



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com  Wed Sep 24 05:47:54 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:47:54 +0200
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
References: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkroq8$8ud$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>

Nick Keighley wrote:
> I'm probably missing something rather obvious, but is there a known 
> problem with getting a Python based socket program to communicate with
> a C based socket program? A simple echo server written in Python
> (the example from Python in a Nutshell actually) will happily talk
> to a Python based client. If a C based client is substitued the connection
> is refused (or so the C client reports). The C client will talk to
> a C server.

Communications between C and Python via sockets definetly work: we do that every 
day (no kidding ;-)

Can you post an example of your code?
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Sep  1 05:19:25 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:19:25 +0200
Subject: Declaration of an array of unspecified size
References: <m814lvc8h44vbd5g1m2iv05r33qg8ag9ta@news.stofanet.dk> <biu6k0$c8fs4$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <biv3jc$h3b$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote:

>An optimzed (untested) version:
>
>class PopMailServer:
>    def __init__(self, host, user, pass):
>        self.host = host
>        self.user = user
>        self.password = pass
>        self.mail = []
>
>    def action(self):
>        pop = poplib.POP3(self.host)
>        pop.user(self.user)
>        pop.pass_(self.password)
>        for x in p.list()[1]:
>            num, len = x.split()
>            self.mail.append(pop.retr(num)[1])
>        pop.quit()
>        print "Total mails: %d" % len(self.mail)
>
>of course this lacks exception handling...

You followed the OP into using "pop" as a name for an instance.
However "pop" is also a *method* of type list. While it's not as bad
as for example using the name "str" for a string ("str" is a build-in
function which is not reachable anymore if it's name is used this way)
this still makes my spider sense tingle. Whether it's because you
failed to mention this or just because it's dialectical I don't know
:-)

Anton



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Sep 23 01:14:57 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:14:57 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <63gvmvcf6iakbs8pgll7u8ogblkbqld6fp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6EQbb.1770$PT3.279727@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in
message
> Personally, I think the conventional '..' has more chance than your
> '...'.

Hi.
Actually, I think '...' is more conventional notation for expressing a range
of numbers. Like when you want to show a sequence:

# odd numbers greater than 3, but less than 257
5, 7, 9, 11, ..., 255, 257

That sort of thing.

Also, '...' is one dot further away from a single dot '.', than is '..'. Is
that important? Maybe. I figure it takes away one argument:

"a..b looks too much like a.b"

by saying

"Well, a...b doesn't"

Of course, a#%$^^#b doesn't either....

Anyway ...


> >Leaving the ellipsis aside, you could add methods to int/long (also ala
> >Ruby),
> >
> >for i in 0.upto(10):
> >    # suite
> >
> ># to count down
> >for i in 10.downto(0):
> >    # suite
>
> I'm not sure about this - I'm bouncing between "that's neat!" and
> "yuck!", but the "yuck!" part may just mean I need to get used to it.
>

I'm more:
I've seen it in Ruby and Smalltalk (where integers have such methods), and
it's not '...' , nor is it range(), so that might be an alternative. Whether
it is a good alternative ... <shrug>. It doesn't add new syntax, only new
methods to existing objects. But, it does not appear to provide any marked
improvement over range (or xrange). So, it's neither here nor there for me.

In my own language, were I to make one,  I would use:

for i in start to stop by step:
    # suite

But, that's not going to happen in this language; neither do I expect it to,
nor would I ask for it (I'd make my own, if I really wanted it).
Still, it's interesting to play with different formulations, to see if they
do or do not work well.





From ktilton at nyc.rr.com  Wed Sep  3 15:00:11 2003
From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:00:11 GMT
Subject: Lisp with Kenny! <g>
Message-ID: <3F5639FA.9000600@nyc.rr.com>

No, seriously, I want to do some free Lisp classes for anyone 
interested. One or two nights a week. BYO computer or use one of mine. 
BYO code to work on, or we can work thru the CL text of your choice. 
(But do snag one, or find something on-line you want to follow.)

btw, don't be shy. I enjoy teaching and am accustomed to helping folks 
at different levels of experience. Anyone prepared to make the effort 
will have a good time. Peer-tutoring is cool, so you can also help each 
other, and other strong lispniks are welcome to drop in.

If you are interested, please let me know which evening(s) are best for 
you. (Tuesdays seem to be taken already.)

The location will be: 171 West 73rd St, NYC 10023, just east of 
Amsterdam Ave.

-- 

  kenny tilton
  clinisys, inc
  http://www.tilton-technology.com/
  ---------------------------------------------------------------
"Career highlights? I had two. I got an intentional walk from
Sandy Koufax and I got out of a rundown against the Mets."
                                                  -- Bob Uecker




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 29 14:06:23 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:06:23 +0200
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bl9sds$8b0$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Edward K. Ream wrote:

> I've just about convinced myself there is no good, clean solution to the
> following puzzle.  I wonder if you agree.

If I understand you correctly, you do

leoGlobals.py
_app=None
def app():
    global _app
    if not _app:
        # other code
        _app = Application()
    return _app

leoMain.py
from leoGlobals import *
app = app()
app.mainLoop()

leoOther.py
from leoGlobals import *

app().doSomething()


Does it happen that your program runs without ever creating the Application
instance? If not, there's no point in lazy creation:

leoGlobals.py
app=None
def createApp():
    global app
    assert not app
    app = Application()

leoMain.py
from leoGlobals import *
createApp()
app.mainLoop()

leoOther.py
from leoGlobals import *
# this works iff you can ensure that leoMain.py is the 
# only "entry point" to your application
app.doSomething()


If I missed something, it would probably help if you post similar code
fragments to show where the above scheme would fail to work.

Peter







From joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de  Sat Sep  6 13:16:39 2003
From: joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=F6rg?= Maier)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 19:16:39 +0200
Subject: cygwin python with Tkinter and pexpect module
Message-ID: <bjd4t7$gn0fe$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hey guys, 

i have a big problem using Tkinter and pexpect in cygwin. i try to program
an winscp-like rsync Program for all posix Platforms (linux, macosx,
cygwin). i got a class SslConnection with a method listDirectory that gives
back a list of an remote directory using pexpect. this method works in
linux, it works in cygwin-python from command-line, but invoked in an
Tkinter-Program i got the strange Exception:
E:\cygwin\bin\python2.3.exe: *** unable to remap E:\cygwin\bin\tk84.dll to
same address as parent(0x710000) != 0xC20000 28 [main] python 604
sync_with_child: child 1848(0x63C) died before initialization with status
code 0x1 
   3133 [main] python 604 sync_with_child: *** child state child loading
dlls 
E:\cygwin\bin\python2.3.exe: *** unable to remap E:\cygwin\bin\tk84.dll to
same 
address as parent(0x710000) != 0xC20000 
 174653 [main] python 604 sync_with_child: child 1932(0x5F8) died before
initial 
ization with status code 0x1 
 203190 [main] python 604 sync_with_child: *** child state child loading
dlls 

dont know what to do , gui-program is running under linux. Any ideas? Is
this a bug in cygwin tcltk?

thanks for every advice,
joerg

-- 
Hi
I am a signature virus. 
Please copy me to your .signature file to help me spread.



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Sep 26 14:42:28 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:42:28 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu> <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <5L%cb.13662$yD1.1524835@news20.bellglobal.com>

"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003 at news.service.uci.edu...
> Your proposed name has an implication for the semantics.

Do the implied semantics of ireverse() differ from those implied by the
names iter_backwards(), reverse_view(), riter(), etc.?
Because, to me, they' re just different words for the same idea.

> I was questioning the feasibility of the implied semantics.

Fine. Take it up with the person who proposed the idea.

> I don't think you're let off the hook by the excuse that "it's only a
name".

I'm let off the "hook" because I was never on it. The responsibility for
answering your questions re: the feasability of this enterprise do not fall
to me, but to the proponent of the enterprise. It's like someone said they
where going to build a bridge from the mainland to Hawaii, and that they
would paint it green. And I said, "What about painting it red?" And you
asked me, "And how to you propose to build this bridge?". My answer is, "Uh,
why don't you ask the fellow over there who brought up the thing in the
first place. I'm just talking paint colours over here." I think your
questions are mis-directed. And, even if they are not, I don't have your
answers, I'm not going to try to come up with them, and I feel no
responsibility to do so.





From jean.kasapyan at wanadoo.fr  Tue Sep 30 17:28:35 2003
From: jean.kasapyan at wanadoo.fr (jean.kasapyan)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:28:35 +0200
Subject: IDE Python
Message-ID: <blcsi4$c2i$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Hello,
I search Python IDE with Code Intellisense

Thanks
JEAN





From felix_mcallister at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 03:17:20 2003
From: felix_mcallister at hotmail.com (Felix McAllister)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:17:20 +0100
Subject: Win32 Com + ADO: How to compare the result of a recordset to
 'nothing'
References: <tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <8Oy9b.31875$pK2.53696@news.indigo.ie>

Thanks to all who replied to my posting.

There were a number of things wrong with my code.

1. Giles Brown was correct in stating that the NextRecordset method returns a tuple. I should have seen this in the debugger when I printed the value out:
        [Dbg]>>> rs.NextRecordset()
        (<COMObject NextRecordset>, -1)

2. There was a typo in the call to NextRecordset - I had "NextRecordSet" [capital S]. I didn't know that case mattered.

The correct loop code is as follows:
while rs != None:
    rs.MoveFirst()
    while not rs.EOF:
        xmlString = xmlString + rs.Fields[0].Value
        rs.MoveNext()
    rs = rs.NextRecordset()[0]


Felix.
> Hi,
> When using win32com.client, how do you test for a 'nothing' com object as you can in VB? I have an example here when using ADO to loop over multiple recordsets returned from a query. I get the following error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\dev\python\MySamples\dbtest.py", line 14, in ?
>     rs.MoveFirst()
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 460, in __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: <unknown>.MoveFirst
> 
> I'm assuming that after the result of rs.NextRecordSet is invalid somehow (it shouldn't be, BTW, as a similar loop runs fine in VB). 
> 
> In Perl, I'd just use : if (defined($rs)....
> 
> Any help appreciated,
> 
> Felix.
> 
> The code is as follows:
> ###########################3 
> import win32com.client
> conn = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Connection")
> conn.ConnectionString = "Driver={SQL Server};Server=(local);Database=Test;Trusted_Connection=yes;"
> conn.Open()
> rs = conn.Execute("TestSPXML")[0]
> xmlString = ""
> while rs != None:
>     rs.MoveFirst()    # FAILS HERE ON THE SECOND ITERATION OF THE LOOP
>     while not rs.EOF:
>         xmlString = xmlString + rs.Fields[0].Value
>         rs.MoveNext()
>     rs = rs.NextRecordSet()
> print xmlString
> conn.Close()



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Sep 23 15:26:56 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <mailman.1064341934.21653.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-CA53C5.12265623092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1064341934.21653.python-list at python.org>,
 Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:

> Stephen Horne writes:
> > True, it is mostly just an alternative notation for range or xrange.
> > But the integer for loops thing is something that never seems to go
> > away. PEP284 itself quotes four previous PEPs on broadly the same
> > issue.
> 
> I am of the opinion that the introduction of enumerate() (in 2.3) will
> go a long ways toward reducing the desire for better integer loop
> syntax. I'm sure it will never go away completely, but if the demand
> seems to die down after a year or so, then I'd guess it was due to
> enumerate().

It will certainly reduce the typical range(len(L)) verbosity.  It 
doesn't do anything to help the readability of expressions like 
range(dim-2,-1,-1) (example from some code I wrote a couple weeks ago).

Actually, looking at that code, the range is not the least readable part 
of it:

if dim == 1:
    positions = dict([(s, (positions[s][0],0)) for s in positions])
elif dim == 2:
    positions = dict([(s, (2*positions[s][0],2*positions[s][1]))
                      for s in positions])
elif not place3d():
    X = coordinate(range(1,dim))
    Y = coordinate(range(dim-2,-1,-1))
    positions = dict([(s, (X[s],Y[s])) for s in positions])

Dictionary comprehensions (PEP 274) would go a long way towards cleaning 
this up:

if dim == 1:
    positions = {s: (positions[s][0],0) for s in positions}
elif dim == 2:
    positions = {s: (2*positions[s][0],2*positions[s][1]))
                 for s in positions}
elif not place3d():
    X = coordinate(range(1,dim))
    Y = coordinate(range(dim-2,-1,-1))
    positions = {s: (X[s],Y[s]) for s in positions}

The use of PEP 284 syntax (replace the range by [i for dim-2 >= i >= 0])
would I think help but not as much.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From follower at iname.com  Tue Sep 16 01:16:25 2003
From: follower at iname.com (Follower)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 22:16:25 -0700
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
References: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com> <d2f38965.0309150133.4aef2253@posting.google.com> <840592e1.0309150557.37661282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d2f38965.0309152116.17830217@posting.google.com>

>(ObMinimalism=Obfuscation Minimalism?
Ob = Obligatory (Old school Usenet idiom...)

This was in reference to the seemingly eternal programmer desire to
reduce key strokes. And, as mentioned elsewhere, this is even fewer:

self.failIf("bar" in foo)



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Sep  3 00:32:19 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:32:19 -0400
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com>
 <bj30il$eoev7$2@ID-125932.news.uni-berlin.de>
 <mailman.1062542045.14859.python-list@python.org> <w4WV/kKkXY/L092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <T7WV/kKkXoAN092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote previously:
|There are legal reasons: Perhaps the software will be found to violate
|a patent, or infringe copyright.  Perhaps it will be judged to violate a
|DMCA-type law.  Perhaps a new "software defects" law will be impossible
|for free software to conform to (for instance, due to a requirement that
|the software developer post a bond against damages caused by defects in
|the software).

Yeah... and perhaps the word 'disingenuous' will be removed from future
editions of popular dictionaries; and then we will lack a concise way to
describe "special pleading" of this sort.  I think it's unlikely though.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sun Sep 28 22:09:08 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:09:08 +1000
Subject: write a file "copy" program in Python for Unix and Windows...
In-Reply-To: <rmMdb.366088$2x.112007@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <rmMdb.366088$2x.112007@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <20030929020908.GE2173@frobozz>

On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 01:59:52AM +0000, Ben Kial wrote:
> I need to write a program to "copy" files and preserved the files'
> atime, mtime, ctime, file permissions. I also need to have this
> program working in Unix and Windows, where the "Archive"
> attribute on the file also has to be preserved (any more
> Windows idiosyncrasies?).
> 
> Any help will be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Try shutil.copy2 (and/or other functions in the shutil module).

-Andrew.





From ulope at gmx.de  Fri Sep 19 08:23:25 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:23:25 +0200
Subject: Binding frustration
References: <mailman.1063925970.14284.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkesft$105nn$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Rob Hunter" <rob at cs.brown.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1063925970.14284.python-list at python.org...
>
> So it seems that if Python made a syntactic distinction between
> introducing a new binding, and assigning to an old one, then this
> problem would go away.  That's what is happening with result.append(g),
> right?  Because of the syntax in this statement (ie, there's no "=" in
> it), Python knows that _result_ must exist, so it goes and looks for
> it.  But, IMO, I *should* be allowed to use the + (append) operator.
> Because there is no syntax for a new binding (like LET, for example),
> Python awkwardly forces the programmer to choose either the local scope
> or the global one when it comes to assignment.  And so, in my case, it
> forces me to use another (but semantically, quite similar) language
> construct.
>

What result.append(bla) does is not an "assignement to an old binding". It
mutates the object that is bound to the name "result". In order to do so
Python looks up the name in the local namespace if it isn't found there it
looks in the namespace above and so on.

Whenever you use the assignment syntax (foo = bar) you create a "new"
binding unless you have declared the name global.

HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From felix_mcallister at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 11:35:56 2003
From: felix_mcallister at hotmail.com (Felix McAllister)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:35:56 +0100
Subject: Win32 Com + ADO: How to compare the result of a recordset to
 'nothing'
References: <tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500@news.indigo.ie>
 <mailman.1063637661.28370.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <A%k9b.31795$pK2.53440@news.indigo.ie>

Bob,
You need to change the (local) part of the connection string to a SQL Server instance on your machine or network. You might also have to change the Trusted Connection=yes part to use a SQL Server login name and password, if that instance isn't set up for trusted connections.
Felix.



From sfb at alysseum.com  Fri Sep 19 19:29:48 2003
From: sfb at alysseum.com (Simon Bayling)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:29:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <Xns93FAC750B300Ek23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13> <3f6a2bd3$0$10998$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6e07b825.0309182013.3ddeb760@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93FC50C7B120k23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>

I see your smiley, but still;

Is there a bug so trivial that you would rather leave it than fix it?

> You have our permission to go out an buy that second monitor, 
> so that this DREADFUL problem never happens again. ;^)

- Simon.



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Mon Sep  1 15:50:10 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:50:10 -0400
Subject: Traversing the object space.
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0309011031.5e56000b@posting.google.com>
References: <6ee58e07.0309011031.5e56000b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030901195010.GA10824@intarweb.us>

On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 11:31:45AM -0700, Lothar Scholz wrote:
> Ruby has a nice function that can traverse the complete object space
> of your program.
> 
> Is there anything like this in python ? It seems to be not in the
> standart library but maybe i can find a short script somewhere else.
> 
> It is a nice way for to do some memory checks to find out if a part of
> your app is generating too much objects.


    import gc
    print gc.get_objects()

  Jp

> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
"Pascal is Pascal is Pascal is dog meat."
                -- M. Devine and P. Larson, Computer Science 340




From itamar at itamarst.org  Tue Sep 16 14:09:22 2003
From: itamar at itamarst.org (Itamar Shtull-Trauring)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:09:22 -0400
Subject: ANN: Twisted networking framework 1.0.7
Message-ID: <20030916140922.357a87b7.itamar@itamarst.org>

Twisted is an event-driven networking framework for server and client
applications.

For more information, visit http://www.twistedmatrix.com, join the list
http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python or
visit us on #twisted at irc.freenode.net.


What's New in 1.0.7
===================

- Client Jabber support.

- twisted.xish, an XML package supporting a DOM-like API and a
  XPATH-like API.

- Woven web templating toolkit is now much faster, and no longer
  supports the interim APIs it had during development.

- Security tightening in the web server, especially on Windows.

- XML-RPC server is now easier to extend, and can publish the XML-RPC
  introspection API as an option.

- Working minimum and maximum sizes for database connection pools.

- New connection API for Perspective Broker, allowing easy SSL
  support, reconnection, etc..

- Better lenient HTML parsing in microdom.

- Many improvements to mail protocols (SMTP, POP3, IMAP).

- Continued switch to updated cred unified authentication backend
  in the various protocols supported by Twisted.

- SOAP support now requires SOAPpy 0.10.1 or later.

- mailmail, a replacement for the common usage of command-line 
  /usr/sbin/sendmail.

- Bug fixes, documentation improvements, more tests.


What is Twisted?
================

Twisted is an event-driven framework for building networked clients and
servers.  It contains a powerful and simple networking core, a
full-featured suite of interoperable protocols, among them a powerful
web server and applications framework.

Twisted supports many event loops for both server apps and GUI
integration on the client side, including:

 - Win32 events, including GUI support
 - GTK+
 - GTK+ 2
 - Qt
 - wxPython
 - Tkinter

Twisted can run protocols over TCP, SSL, UDP, multicast, Unix sockets
and subprocesses. It also includes scheduling support, threading
integration, RDBMS event loop integration and other basic requirements
for networked applications.

Also included are implementations of many protocols. In some cases this
includes complete frameworks providing facilities on top of the base
protocol:

 - SSH
 - IMAP
 - DNS
 - FTP (client only, server needs rewrite)
 - HTTP, including a complete web framework
 - Jabber client
 - XML-RPC server and client frameworks
 - SOAP server framework
 - NNTP and complete NNTP server framework
 - SOCKSv4 (server only)
 - SMTP
 - IRC
 - telnet
 - POP3
 - AOL's instant messaging TOC
 - MSN messaging
 - OSCAR, used by AOL IM as well as ICQ (client only)
 - MouseMan serial mice, and GPS devices
 - Twisted Perspective Broker, a remote object protocol




From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep  6 11:17:24 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:17:24 GMT
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it> <bjcbha$vmp$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <8Um6b.34442$R32.1077180@news2.tin.it>

Michael Peuser wrote:
   ...
>> > (1) More power for same price - this works in favour of 'complex
> software'
>> > (2) Same power for less money - this works in favor of 'cheap software'
>>
>> And software is developed more cheaply in higher level languages than
>> in lower level ones.  Therefore, both [1] and [2] work in favour of
>> HLL's, which let you develop more complex software for the same price or
>> the same software (software of the same functional complexity, but more
>> often than not somewhat hungrier of hardware resources) faster & cheaper.
> 
> No one will ever dispute this. 

Oh good, because your assertions DID "dispute this" -- you very
specifically claimed that there was no such thing helping Python
as Moore's Law helped Linux!!!

> The question is however: How much HLL is enough? 

That may be ONE question, and I'll gladly try to answer it if and
when a language with a substantially higher level than Python is
alternative for a project about which I get input.  In general it's
not trivial to stay BOTH very-high-level AND general purpose enough
for a really wide range of tasks.  A language we're developing at
AB Strakt as part of the CAPS framework, for example, looks like...:

   attribute salary is Currency
       "Salario mensile"
       restriction quantity(1)
       
       on create code Python
           if value[0] < minimumSalary:
               value = [ minimumSalary ]
           return value
       %%

etc -- now THAT is a higher-level language than Python, and it's
a dream to use for directly transcribing into executable code the
results of ERD analysis for typical business applications to be
deployed as multi-layer clients/middleware/server distributed apps;
but I wouldn't even DREAM of using it to program a completely
different kind of application, such as a videogame, a compiler,
a web-spider engine, and the like, all application areas for which
Python, which is MUCH more general-purpose, is so perfectly well
suited.  Note that this language uses Python as its lower-level
embedded language; indeed the whole VVHL (very-very high-level)
program gets compiled into Python (by a Python-coded compiler, of
course) and executed as Python (by a Python-coded middleware, of
course -- resting on top of a very special Python-coded OODB and
feeding clients such as GUI ones, Web apps, and batch scripts --
all typically coded, of course, in Python).

No "height" is "enough", PER SE, in a sufficiently restricted
domain -- and "multiuser business apps centered on cooperation
of knowledge workers" turns out to be sufficiently restricted
to let us at AB Strakt design a special language for it, one
which catches the essentially "declarative" aspects of the field
and embeds Python for non-declarative business rules such as the
above "ensure salary is >= minimumSalary by raising it if needed".

Of course, if and when we find out that this kind of on-create
action (business rule) is frequent enough to warrant it, we may
want to push the language level of our own declarative language
up a bit further (perhaps by some kind of macro mechanism) into
    ensure minimum(minimumSalary)
(just guessing at the hypothetical future syntax here) in much
the same way as the existing "restriction" statement expresses
constraints that are meant to make a commit attemot fail rather
than fixing it somehow.

But below our VVHL language we'll always need a totally general
purpose one; our language is not meant to compile itself and
never will (while Python will, see the pypy project).  I am not
sure how much higher than Python you can go *while staying fully
general-purpose* -- or if it would be wise to.  We'll see when
and if somebody invents such a language with a FP level of, say,
roughly one or two lines per FP (Python is at about 4-5, I would
guess).  _Simplicity_ is also important, as such relative
failures as PL/I and Algol68 show; Python's magic is that it
gets to be so powerful AND simple at the same time -- whether
that feat is repeatable at much higher semantics levels, I dunno.
(NB in this context FP=Function Point -- nothing to do with
Functional Programming, as is happens).


> Why are purely functional languages practically unknown?

What's that gotta do with the issue?  Neither ML nor Haskell
are substantially different from Python in terms of FP language
level.  My personal guess is that using functional programming
effectively requires a certain mathematical mindset that most
people just don't have.  Using Python doesn't -- "it fits your
brain", as amply demonstrated over and over already.


> [Some absulutely convincing remarks and well structured destription of the
> current situation on the server market by Alex]
> 
> My original point in answer to Facundu Bastidas' remark was: IF the
> hardware costs had not dropped down to the same order as (base!) software
> costs, than Linux would not have had any chance! This is still what I
> think with my zero knowledege.

It's weird to argue a conterfactual hypothetical, but I don't see why
(e.g.) IBM couldn't have cottoned on to Linux as a cheaper and more
profitable alternative for their system integration business than
developing and maintaining their own sub-brand of Unix, whatever may
have happened to hardware costs.


> My other point was that there nothing like that is going on in the
> software development business. The price of tools is of no significance.

You are wrong.  Maybe on some level it "shouldn't" be, but bean
counters are going really wild these days -- and new frugal startup
companies (very different mindset than those of just a few years ago)
ARE looking hard at EVERY penny they spend as a matter of routine.
Each penny has to justify itself directly -- a rule that served such
now-huge companies as Walmart or Ikea quite well over the years,
after all.

Furthermore, using open source tools isn't just a COST advantage: it
gives obvious strategic benefits -- it lets you have a backup strategy
that you might lack if the sole supplier of your tools went belly-up,
or got bought out by some other company for its customer base (but
with the strategy of slowly killing the tools that are making you its
customer), or simply decided to kill your tools in favour of some
costlier/more profitable others (suppliers DO that, you know, if they
get a good enough stranglehold on their customers).

Some companies have suffered enough such episodes in the past that
they DO have a strategic bias towards open source by now.


> It is the (expected increase of productivity) The DoD Ada is the best
> example I can think of.
> 
> We have not yet reached the situation, where the vendor includea all the
> hardware you need when you buy a program.

Actually there are such cases (although "buy" is typically incorrect --
such sw/hw combinations are typically *leased*), but I do think they're
quite a minor factor in the IT industry today, as yet.


>> >> say COBOL, even if you needed to supply training for it (it's not
>> >> hard to teach COBOL to somebody who knows assembly, anyway -- the
>> >> reverse is harder).
>> > I am on your way; maybe they more probably would be trained for some
>> > "macro language". This is no 'paradigm change'. Most C++ programmers (I
>> > know what I say!) write C programs.
> 
>> History proves you are wrong: in practice, COBOL was what took over
>> the market for business application development, *NOT* macro assembly
>> as you claim would "more probably" happen.  A paradigm change, to be
>> sure, but it's what DID win historically.  By ignoring history, as
>> you're doing, you may not be doomed to repeat it, but you sure do
>> handicap grievously your chances to predict the future.
> 
> Please! I do nor ignore history! I hypothetically predicted something what
> I know did not happen, but what would have been more plausible. It did not

So, you should understand that your criteria of prediction are wrong.

> happen because the number of programmers was small at that time. In fact

Clearly irrelevant.  If programmer productivity was very low, then more
programmers were needed to produce any given total program functionality
than would be with higher productivity (or, with the same number of
programmers much more functionality could be produced).  Thus it made
more sense to train programmers in a higher-productivity technology
than to NOT do so -- and the returns of this strategy were (assuming
enough demand for program functionality, which has always been the
case) PER PROGRAMMER, just as the expenses, thus the total number of
programmers is not relevant in the decision-making process.

> not COBOL took over but RPG, to correct your historical background.

RPG played quite a role, but much more software was in fact developed
in COBOL than in RPG.


> In most companies you do not train programmers but (try to) hire
> experienced staff.

Most companies in Europe do BOTH things.  Laying people off is just
too costly.


>> for many examples.  As the evidence accumulates, Python also starts
>> getting in non-sneakily, by executive decision rather than by the above
>> means -- and keeps proving itself.
> 
> We shall wish that.

It's a fact, not a wish.  Progress may not be as swift as we might
WISH, but it's undeniably happening.


>> And Moore's Law is absolutely crucial to this relentless trend.
> 
> I see no reason why not C# and .NET will be the winners!?

If dotNET should emerge as the favoured platform, Python will then
occupy that niche just as it did for the JVM, and it will offer
just the same productivity advantages wrt C# as it does wrt Java
or C++ and for identical reasons: higher level, and simplicity.

> ...
>> > I should as well like to discuss your aspect of programmer's
> productivity.
>> > This is an important  factor. However all investigations show that
>> > programmer's productivity is an unmeasurable quantity.
>>
>> Once again, you are totally wrong, and moreover, you are wrong in an
>> assertion that you choose to express in the broadest, unqualified terms.
> 
> I was  very well aware of what I was saying ;-)
> 
>> Lutz Prechelt's study, the best-known example of empirical investigation
>> of programmer productivity, show Python and Perl ruling the roost, and
>> grinding e.g. Java into the dust.
> Bu some coincidence I came over that study some months ago (googling for
> some Python matter). I was impressed by the thouroughness of the study but
> not of the result. The study concentrated on coding and some

Of course.  Including maintenance (bugs discovered indicating the
need for corrective maintenance).

> string/pattern matching related task

Of course, any empirical study will concentrate on one task.  I would
not describe that "phone book" example as "string/pattern matching",
exclusively, of course.

> There will be different results when doing embedded applications

Quite possibly, but as I've already explained that's maybe 10% of
software development, so, who cares?  Embedded applications with
hard real time constraints would see an interesting fight between,
say, C and (some constrained subset of) C++ -- all the major
languages used in programming applications, such as Java, Python
and C#, have no guarantees of hard real-time constraints.  And so?
Who cares?

>> This only confirms in a specific case
>> study the well-know results of the Function Point community: the higher
>> level a language, the least amount of code per FP it needs, the higher
>> the productivity in all phases of coding and maintenance.
> 
> Coding is agreed, maintenance is still questionable.

Corrective maintenance costs are well predicted by density of bugs
(which Prechelt did measure) and addition of functionality is strongly
correlated to the cost of the first development (when using decent
methodologies, of course -- "waterfall" ones are just untenable, but
then nobody proposes THOSE as being a better fit for Python!-).

 
>> > Do it with Python then and show it to the world  ;-)
> 
>> It's been done more than once, and it's being done again as we speak,
>> many times over -- again, see the Python Success Stories.  Google is
>> an example that didn't choose to submit all details of its Python
>> success -- but Norvig, Google's search-quality director, has stated
>> unambiguously what a crucial role Python has played and still plays
>> in Google's amazing ongoing success.  The Open-Source Applications
>> Foundation is doing the same with Chandler, a personal information
>> manager application.
> 
> It is not clear whether this is just a niche market like e.g. MATLAB.

Sure -- Google is one niche, Industrial Light and Magic another,
completely unrelated niche, the OSAF a third one, games yet another,
and so on, and so forth.

Breaking up the range of application of a general purpose programming
language such as Python into a zillion niches is just silly, but
feel free to go right ahead -- it's no use, but if it amuses you,
sure, why not.  MATLAB may be one niche of C's application (I do
believe MATLAB is coded in C, but I don't know for sure), but that
says essentially nothing regarding C's (obviously far wider)
range of applicability.


Alex




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 19:14:12 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 01:14:12 +0200
Subject: Binding frustration
References: <mailman.1063921226.27885.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkde9j$icj$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Rob Hunter wrote:

> So it just occurred to me that probably, in this case, the Python way
> is the Scheme way:
> 
> def getGenres(title):
> 
>      def inGenre(g):
>          return <boolean test using g and title and the dictionary>
> 
>      return filter(inGenre, ['Comedy','Suspense', ...])
> 
> :)
> 
> But still, wrt my original complaint, doesn't it seem wrong that I
> couldn't write that program?
> 

Doesn't it strike you that the function name inGenre suggests a test rather
than a function with side effects? I think your second approach is clearer
than the workaround using result.append() that was suggested in previous
posts.

Why would you nest inGenre() inside getGenres(). Testing if a title is in
one specified genre is a useful application, too. Thus the title must be
made explicit. Let's see:

from sets import Set
genres = {
    "Comedy": Set(["t1", "t2", "t3"]),
    "Suspense": Set(["t2", "t4", "t5"])
}

def inGenre(title, titlesInGenre):
    return title in titlesInGenre

def getGenres(title, genres):
    return [name for name, titles in genres.iteritems() if inGenre(title,
titles)]

allTitles = Set()
for ts in genres.values():
    allTitles |= ts
allTitles.add("t0")

for title in allTitles:
    print title, "is in genres:", ", ".join(getGenres(title, genres))
print

if inGenre("t1", genres["Comedy"]):
    print "t1 is a comedy"

Hey, all functions have nice arguments in/return value out interfaces and
all binding woes have suddenly vanished :-)
More seriously, Python's binding concept is simple enough that you will soon
overcome that frustration.
 
Peter
        



From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep  9 16:37:44 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:37:44 -0300
Subject: Request for comments on modular application design and
 security.
References: <m3r82qj83t.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <m365k1itpj.fsf@ieee.org>

Jorge Godoy <godoy at metalab.unc.edu> writes:

> How can I pass this information from one proccess to another without
> compromising security and in a way that's available in both Linux
> and Windows? (They have half of the machines running each OS and are
> migrating to Linux.)

It seems that PyRO will do that. Is it the best approach? 

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 22 03:39:24 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:39:24 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" wrote:

> jallan wrote:
> 
>> But that really doesn't work properly. According to Unicode specs and
>> German usage the uppercase of "?" is actually "SS", that is the single
>> character "?" should uppercase to two characters.
> 
> Can you cite exact chapter and verse of the Unicode specs that say so?
> According to the Unicode database,
> 
> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt
> 
> has neither an uppercase mapping, nor a lowercase mapping.

It seems like UnicodeData.txt does not give the full story. Quoting from
http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt:

[...]
# (For compatibility, the UnicodeData.txt file only contains case mappings
for
# characters where they are 1-1, and does not have locale-specific
mappings.)
[...]
# <code>; <lower> ; <title> ; <upper> ; (<condition_list> ;)? # <comment>
[...]
# The German es-zed is special--the normal mapping is to SS.
# Note: the titlecase should never occur in practice. It is equal to
titlecase(uppercase(<es-zed>))

00DF; 00DF; 0053 0073; 0053 0053; # LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
[...]

Thus, to comply with the standard, "?".upper() --> "SS" is required.

> Also, in German, the uppercase mapping of ? is of ongoing debate.

My personal impression is that, even before the orthography reform in 1998,
the SZ variant was seldom used.
For the "official" rule see http://www.ids-mannheim.de/reform/a2-3.html.

Peter



From lac at strakt.com  Sat Sep 13 15:39:16 2003
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 21:39:16 +0200
Subject: Anybody know the Etymology of the word 'Sprint' as in coding Sprint?
Message-ID: <200309131939.h8DJdGHP007875@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

I think it comes from Jeff Sutherland's Agile Programming Methodology,
called Scrum http://jeffsutherland.com/scrum/index.html where work is
planned into month long interations called Sprints.  (Jeff must have
terrific stamina if he thinks that the thing to call a month-long race
is a Sprint :-) )

These days we do them shorter -- as in a 4 days Sprint before Pycon.

Anybody know the etymology for sure?

Laura




From soundwave56 at yahoo.ca  Thu Sep  4 17:28:24 2003
From: soundwave56 at yahoo.ca (Hank)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 14:28:24 -0700
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
References: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com> <3F5656CA.519ABADF@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <731fc603.0309041328.4e83f8ab@posting.google.com>

where would i get this csv module from? does it come with python 2.2?

thanks


achrist at easystreet.com wrote in message news:<3F5656CA.519ABADF at easystreet.com>...
> Hank wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have a CSV file from excel that looks like this (simplified):
> > 
> > name,description,type1,type2,name,filename
> > test1,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> > test2,another test,1.000,0.000,newname,filename
> > test3,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> > test4,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> > test5,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> > test6,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> > 
> > what i want at the end is a dictionary like
> > 
> > dict1[name] = test1
> > dict1[description] = "this is a test"
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > dict2[name] = test2
> > dict2[description] = "another test"
> > 
> 
> 
> import csv
> 
> dicts  		= []
> 
> inputFile = open("SomeDurnFileName.csv",  "rb")
> parser = csv.reader(inputFile)
> firstRec = True
> for fields in parser:
> 	if firstRec:
> 		fieldNames = fields
> 		firstRec   = False
> 	else:
> 		dicts.append({})
> 		for i,f in enumerate(fields)
> 			dicts[-1][fieldNames[i]] = f



From stefnin at alussinan.org  Mon Sep 29 10:28:47 2003
From: stefnin at alussinan.org (Stéphane Ninin)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 14:28:47 GMT
Subject: asyncore question
References: <Xns93F48D6F052CAstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.75> <mailman.1063370360.32090.python-list@python.org> <p2j9b.3994$U41.2930@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9405A6A7BD0A1stefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.133>

Also sprach Raymond Hettinger :

>>
>> I believe it's an oversight in asyncore.  
>> Either create_socket should take
>> a map parameter, or __init__ should store the initial map and
>> create_socket should use it.  One workaround is to create the socket
>> yourself and call set_socket(sock, some_map). 
> 
> Please submit a bug report.
> 
> 

  I think this patch should work,

*** asyncore.py Mon Sep 29 16:20:13 2003
--- asyncore-new.py     Mon Sep 29 16:20:26 2003
***************
*** 201,206 ****
--- 201,211 ----
      addr = None

      def __init__(self, sock=None, map=None):
+         if (map is None):
+             self.map = socket_map
+         else:
+             self.map=map
+
          if sock:
              self.set_socket(sock, map)
              # I think it should inherit this anyway
***************
*** 248,254 ****
          self.socket = socket.socket(family, type)
          self.socket.setblocking(0)
          self._fileno = self.socket.fileno()
!         self.add_channel()

      def set_socket(self, sock, map=None):
          self.socket = sock
--- 253,259 ----
          self.socket = socket.socket(family, type)
          self.socket.setblocking(0)
          self._fileno = self.socket.fileno()
!         self.add_channel(self.map)

      def set_socket(self, sock, map=None):
          self.socket = sock
***************
*** 353,359 ****
                  raise socket.error, why

      def close(self):
!         self.del_channel()
          self.socket.close()

      # cheap inheritance, used to pass all other attribute
--- 358,364 ----
                  raise socket.error, why

      def close(self):
!         self.del_channel(self.map)
          self.socket.close()

      # cheap inheritance, used to pass all other attribute 


should I add it first to the bug [758241],
or create a patch for it ?
In that case, how to connect the patch to the bug it is supposed to solve ?

I guess I am a bit out of topic here, in that case where should I ask 
such questions ?


Regards,

-- 
St?phane Ninin






From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep 30 12:06:53 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:06:53 -0500
Subject: Is this is bug or something change in Python 2.3
In-Reply-To: <200309300854.42105.spatel@landrum-brown.com>
References: <200309300854.42105.spatel@landrum-brown.com>
Message-ID: <20030930160647.GA12344@unpythonic.net>

The reason is the difference in the way sys.path is set:

$ cat x.py
import sys; print repr(sys.path[0])
$ python2.2 ./x.py
'.'
$ python2.3 ./x.py
'/net/filesrv1/sd3a/users/jepler'

Jeff




From wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net  Mon Sep 29 10:45:38 2003
From: wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net (John Hall)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:45:38 GMT
Subject: OT: John Cleese and the Monty Python book
Message-ID: <65hgnvkrh84v4bbmijqdivbih54e74metn@4ax.com>

I just read this in The Independent (Brit newspaper).
What John Cleese is doing now, and chat about the people of Monty
Python's Flying Circus.
I know that Guido is a fan - perhaps other Pythonistas are also.

-- 
John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net>
Cochrane, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"



From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Wed Sep 17 17:54:23 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:54:23 -0500
Subject: Clearing file object buffers
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624CE9@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: disgracelands [mailto:disgracelands at quietblue.co.uk] 
> 
> In my code i have setup sys.stdout and sys.stderr as file 
> objects so that i
> can easily track whats going on during the course of my 
> program.  So far its
> proving useful but the objects seem to be buffering any text 
> supplied to
> their write() functions and when i hit an error condition and 
> have to exit
> early they fail to write and i'm left with empty files.
> 
> Is there any way to force the file objects to flush the 
> buffer to file on
> disc?

>>> import sys
>>> dir(sys.stdout)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__',
'__init__', '__ite
r__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__',
'__setattr__', '__str__', 'clo
se', 'closed', 'encoding', 'fileno', 'flush', 'isatty', 'mode', 'name',
'newlines', 'next'
, 'read', 'readinto', 'readline', 'readlines', 'seek', 'softspace',
'tell', 'truncate', 'w
rite', 'writelines', 'xreadlines']
>>> print sys.stdout.flush.__doc__
flush() -> None.  Flush the internal I/O buffer.
>>>

hth,
-- bjorn




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep  8 08:55:34 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:55:34 -0500
Subject: GIFs Using Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <3f5c6b2f$0$20870$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
References: <3f5c6b2f$0$20870$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <20030908125529.GA23847@unpythonic.net>

gregor,
I was also able to get a reliable display using
        bytes = open(imgfile, "rb").read()
        bytes = base64.encodestring(bytes)
        img = PhotoImage(data=bytes)

If you're using Windows, the missing part may be the "b" (binary) option
when opening the file.  If not, you'll need to provide more information
about what you're doing.

Jeff




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Sep 18 15:26:18 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:26:18 -0400
Subject: file object: seek and close?
References: <mailman.1063901845.25188.python-list@python.org> <bkcpdn$f1k$00$1@news.t-online.com> <3F69EE44.5020100@bu.edu> <bkctm3$34s$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vmk1mcbdm5n575@news.supernews.com>

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:bkctm3$34s$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I did some tests and it seems that it was the line that I defined list
> > as a pdbdict0 object was causing the problem.
> >
> > If I remove the line:
> >
> > list = pdbdict0()
> >
>
> This is really strange. I still cannot reproduce the error.
>
> >
> > class pdbdict0(dict):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         super(dict, self).__init__()
> >         self['header'] = ''
> >         self['compnd'] = []
> >
>
> Wouldn't that be:
>
> class pdbdict0(dict):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(pdbdict0, self).__init__(self)
>         self['header'] = ''
>         self['compnd'] = []
>
> or better:
>
> def bdbdict0():
>     return {"header": "", "compnd": []}
>
> While the pdbdict0 implementation seems broken, I have no clue what causes
> the file to be closed.
>
> Totally unrelated: Don't use list and type as variable names. They are
> already used as built-in classes.

Actually, that's probably the problem right there. Never, ever use anything
in the built-in namespace as a variable name.

John Roth

>
> Peter





From uce at ftc.gov  Tue Sep 23 21:59:15 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:59:15 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
In-Reply-To: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com>
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Nc2dnbMyZd7uZ-2iU-KYhw@comcast.com>

The point of do-while loops is that you don't need setup code anymore, 
right? How about this:

...
dowhile <condition>:
	<loop body>
...

where the body is run once before it becomes a standard while loop. It 
looks like we all think of this structure as a "do-while loop", so the 
expression is natural. This also makes it easy to change loop types - 
just add or remove the "do". Slight downside is that the execution flow 
isn't exactly as you read it.




From alpot at mylinuxsite.com  Sun Sep  7 12:23:55 2003
From: alpot at mylinuxsite.com (hostmaster)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 00:23:55 +0800
Subject: Question on Standard Types
Message-ID: <1062951834.13887.27.camel@mylinuxsite.com>

Hi,

I'm quite new to Python and I am reading this book called 'Core Python
Programming' by Wesley J. Chun.  I think that this is not a new book but
I believe some of the points are still valid.

There is this part in the book where it says:  

"In Python, standard types are not classes, so creating integers and
strings does not involve instantiation".

But later in the book, it talks about 'numeric objects' created when a
numeric literal is assigned to a reference.

So my question now is, if standard types are objects, shouldn't they
have classes as well ? Isn't it that a class is the blueprint of an
object? If they don't have a class to begin with, how are these objects
created?

Thanks.


Al




From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 15:41:25 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:41:25 GMT
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bk7lq1$qicfh$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de> <bk7mkg$4s$1@news.peterlink.ru>
Message-ID: <FHJ9b.13226$x21.7557@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"anton muhin" <antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru> wrote in message news:bk7mkg$4s$1 at news.peterlink.ru...

> Defenitely. If I remember it right, None is going to be promoted into
> keywords soon. Therefore the warning.
>
> hth,
> anton.
>

Will it be lower-case (together with false and true) like all other keywords or is it just a start of mess?

M-a-S





From tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom  Tue Sep 23 15:32:20 2003
From: tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom (Tina Li)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:32:20 -0400
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <eppstein-22C96A.10011623092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3f70a03d$1_4@corp.newsgroups.com>

Hello,

Thanks for the suggestion. It does solve my problem -- but just out of curiosity, I'd like to know what caused the
over-limit as well.

Thanks again!

Tina

"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message news:eppstein-22C96A.10011623092003 at news.service.uci.edu...
| In article <3f7069db_4 at corp.newsgroups.com>,
|  "Tina Li" <tina_li23 AT hotmail DOT com> wrote:
|
| > I've been struggling with a regular expression for parsing XML files,
| > which keeps giving the run time error "maximum recursion limit
| > exceeded".
|
| Why not use a real XML parser?  xml.parsers.expat is easy enough to use,
| doesn't have problems with recursion limits, and will continue working
| when someone generates a valid XML file in a slightly different version
| than the one you expect.
|
| -- 
| David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
| Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



From jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy  Sat Sep 20 08:47:10 2003
From: jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy (JZ)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:47:10 +0200
Subject: Webware and RAM!
References: <d30mmv0fh2ohgbnl15t6muf7n2rdlvtgcl@4ax.com> <m3ad90u1kf.fsf@drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <d0jomvse3jd8ikqvt4tnjc7a3bje0dndlv@4ax.com>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:32:00 -0700, "Elf M. Sternberg"
<elf at drizzle.com> wrote:

>Huh.  Weird.  I run WebKit in threaded mode, so there's only 1
>daemon running ever, and it starts at about 7 MB. 

That's right. I was wrong. I was fooled with 'top' command of my RH7.

--
JZ




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 16 15:22:13 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:22:13 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net>
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org>
        <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <16231.25317.741455.556170@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Harri> Py_None is special because it is shared between all interpreters, it is 
    Harri> global. Py_None is defined as:

    ...


    Harri> From the above we see that when Py_None reference count reaches
    Harri> zero, a destructor none_dealloc is called.

    ...

    Harri> This makes no sense at all. Why Py_FatalError? It would be better
    Harri> to have

    Harri> static void
    Harri> none_dealloc(PyObject* ignore)
    Harri> {
    Harri> }

Actually, it makes perfect sense.  The reference count of Py_None is never
supposed to reach zero.  If that happens it's because you have a bug (too
many Py_DECREFs or not enouch Py_INCREFs).  Your version of none_dealloc
silently masks the error.

    Harri> so that it is not necessary to call Py_INCREF(Py_None)
    Harri> Py_DECREF(Py_None) at all. Guess how many times these are called
    Harri> in Python C API? Py_INCREF is called 2001 times and Py_DECREF two
    Harri> times.

You mean how many places does Py_(IN|DE)CREF(Py_None) appear?  Note that in
most situations the interpreter itself calls Py_DECREF(<return value>) for
you.  You just can't tell that "<return value>" is Py_None using a static
scan of the C source code.

    Harri> By changing the way how Py_None is freed (by doing nothing)
    Harri> Python would get simpler and faster.  

I think you are completely missing the point of Python's reference
counting.  Py_None is nothing special except for the fact that it is not
allocated on the stack.  In fact, if you removed all the INCREFs and
DECREFs I think you'd have to special-case the code which detects negative
reference counts.  Py_None's reference count would quickly go negative and
instead of the normal reference counting dance you'd always be calling the
error function which handles negative ref counts.  It would always have to
compare its argument object with Py_None to make sure it wasn't complaining
about the now-special Py_None object.

Skip





From Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr  Fri Sep  5 11:22:42 2003
From: Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:22:42 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pygantt-0.9.2
Message-ID: <20030905152242.GB683@calvin>

Hello,

Logilab has released pygantt-0.9.2.

Pygantt is a tool which takes an XML description for a project tasks and
resources and generates Gantt diagrams. It is released under the Gnu
GPL. 

This new release features some heavy refactoring, as well as some nice
new features (such as skill handling for resources) and bugfix
(especially in the scheduling part of the code).

Project homepage: http://www.logilab.org/projects/pygantt
Direct download: ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/pygantt/pygantt-0.9.2.tar.gz

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations




From alessandro at sephiroth.it  Mon Sep 22 09:54:30 2003
From: alessandro at sephiroth.it (Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth*)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:54:30 GMT
Subject: py2exe: dynamic module does not define init function
References: <81zbb.99124$hE5.3508075@news1.tin.it> <FoCbb.100492$hE5.3545186@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <qaDbb.101005$hE5.3554558@news1.tin.it>

> The message is telling you that audiere.dll does NOT define the
> mandatory function named 'initaudiere' which it should absolutely
> define to allow the "import audiere" statement.  If the import
> works fine outside of a py2exe'd environment but fails in the
> latter then I suspect you may be getting the "wrong" DLL in the
> second case (e.g. maybe you didn't copy audiere.dll to the
> directory in which py2exe's tweaked import expects to find it).

Thanks Alex for the reply, but if the audiere.dll has been copied in the dist/app/ directory (the one with the .exe) doesn't it mean
that py2exe find it?
Maybe i have to copy manually the dll ?

-- 

Alessandro Crugnola [sephiroth]
Flash | PHP Developer
http://www.sephiroth.it

Team Macromedia Volunteer for Flash
http://www.macromedia.com/go/team

Flash-php mailing list
http://www.flash-php.it/index.php?ml=fpcoders&action=subscribe





From Paul.Moore at atosorigin.com  Tue Sep 16 11:46:59 2003
From: Paul.Moore at atosorigin.com (Moore, Paul)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:46:59 +0100
Subject: Datetime utility functions
Message-ID: <16E1010E4581B049ABC51D4975CEDB8803060C81@UKDCX001.uk.int.atosorigin.com>

From: Gustavo Niemeyer [mailto:niemeyer at conectiva.com]
> Your message arrived in the exact time.. :-)

I agree!

> Have a look at this:

I like that. I'm not entirely happy with the name of the class, but as
I can't come up with a better suggestion, I shouldn't criticise...

>> My specific requirements were:
>> 
>> 1. Get the last day of the month contatining a given date(time). I
>> really was surprised to find this one missing, as it seems to me that
>> the datetime module must know what the last day for each month is, so
>> exposing it wouldn't have been hard.

> I don't understand this one. The last day of the month containing
> a given datetime? A datetime is absolute, how would it be "contained"
> in something else?

Sorry, I didn't explain that very well. Imagine an application to report
stats over a period. The user can specify a date, and the report will be
for a calendar month, containing the user's required date. So my code
will be something like

    start = user_date.replace(day=1) # Start of the month
    end = "Last day of the month"

There isn't really a good way of getting "end". I can either add 1 month
(which involves splitting out the month and year, and handling the end of
year) and then subtracting 1 day, or I can try setting the day to 31, 30,
29, 28 in turn, and stop as soon as I don't get an exception.

Neither method is hard, it just seems like one of those tasks that should
be simple.

With your "relativedelta" I could do this pretty easily, by

    end = start + relativedelta(months=+1, days=-1)

but I still feel that I'd need to have an explanatory comment. The datetime
module *knows* the number of days in the month - I'd just like it to tell
*me*.

Paul.




From lizard0000092 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 16:22:06 2003
From: lizard0000092 at yahoo.com (Rebecca Hauge)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.1 Compilation error - can't find krb5.h
In-Reply-To: <1063814087.10299.48.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20030917202206.36332.qmail@web20708.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you!  Your suggestion worked great!

--- Jeremy Hylton <jeremy at alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 11:07, Gabby wrote:
> > I am attempting to compile python 2.1 from the
> source on a RedHat 9.0
> > system.  The problem is that a openssl header file
> (kssl.h) requires
> > krb5.h which isn't in the usual place
> (/usr/include).  Instead krb5.h
> > gets installed at usr/kerberos/include.  The
> openssl version is
> > 0.9.7a-2.  When I build python, the ./configure
> works fine but the
> > make' has problems building the _socket extension.
>  The beginning of
> > the error message is pasted below.  How do I let
> python know where to
> > find the krb5.h file?
> 
> This problem is fixed in CVS, but there hasn't been
> much interest in a
> 2.1.4 release since it's now two minor revisions out
> of date.
> 
> The solution is to add the following bit of code to
> setup.py just after
> ssl_incs is defined.
> 
>         krb5_h = find_file('krb5.h', inc_dirs,
>                           
> ['/usr/kerberos/include'])
>         if krb5_h:
>             ssl_incs += krb5_h
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep  9 04:08:25 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 01:08:25 -0700
Subject: Get the date of last modification of a file
References: <rE27b.45940$R32.1458201@news2.tin.it> <3F5CBAB8.F8888E3@engcorp.com> <UNf7b.48792$R32.1584881@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F5D8A79.F38BA0A4@alcyone.com>

Manuel Bastioni wrote:

> os isn't built-in :-(

In that case, I think the relevant question is why you think you need a
builtin function rather than a standard library function.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ To be refutable is not the least charm of a theory.
\__/  Friedrich Nietzsche



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Sep  7 23:48:41 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:48:41 -0700
Subject: Is there a unicode EOF mark like DOS ascii ctl-z or unix crl-d ?
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com> <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> Thanks. I tried EOT on the assumption, but windows console type
> command doesn't stop on it,
> much less notepad, so I guess I have to do something else.

If you're using Windows, you'll have to go with whatever nonstandard
options they give you.  I don't think contemporary Windows editors
respond to a keystroke to mean end of file.  If you're using command
line stuff in DOS, it's C-z (ASCII SUB, which means something entirely
different from end of file).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ To be a man means to be a fellow man.
\__/  Leo Baeck



From florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net  Thu Sep  4 08:00:29 2003
From: florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net (Florian Schulze)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:00:29 +0200
Subject: Thank you!!!
References: <bj5ki4$fmgdl$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <opruy4y30yttxc4i@news.t-online.de>

This could be a bad subject nowadays, but since this mail was so small I 
took a peek into it.

Nice to hear that you like Python ;)

Regards,
Florian

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:56:05 +0200, MK <MK at foo.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Pythonistas.
>
> You gave me a medium to express myself.
>
> What is Fender to Jimi, or color to Monet,
> Python is for me.
>
> My thoughts are flowing naturally with you,
> Python. What is "Voodoo Chile" to Jimi, that's
> short, elegant and working ZEN-code in
> Python for me.
>
> Truly a freeing, non-linear and transcendent(*)
> experience,
> yours
> MK
>
>
>
> (*)
> Those excit?ng, legendary days when I implemented
> a paint program in 6502 assembler, and a CAD/CAM program
> in Turbo Pascal.
>
> And then 10 years of IT toiling... Am I loosing my faith?
>
> But programming is fun, again!!!
> PYTHON!! PYTHON!! PYTHON!! PYTHON!!
> PYTHON!! PYTHON!! PYTHON!! PYTHON!!
>
>



-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From felix_mcallister at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 24 08:27:06 2003
From: felix_mcallister at hotmail.com (Felix McAllister)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:27:06 +0100
Subject: command exit status on windows
References: <Gmfcb.13418$g4.272374@news1.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <A4gcb.33123$pK2.58766@news.indigo.ie>

On Windows NT, 2000, 2003 and XP this generally works as well, although you'll find that some command line applications specifically written for Windows don't bother with a return code.

I can't comment about Windows 95, 98 or ME.

The os.system call (which works on both Unix and Windows) returns the correct status code.

Felix
> Hello,
> 
> Is there a way to check if a command executed in ms-dos returns 0 (success)
> or greater than 0 (fail) ?
> 
> In Unix the module commands.getstatusoutput returns exit status..
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> -SV



From jetman516 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 29 13:36:36 2003
From: jetman516 at hotmail.com (The Jetman)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 10:36:36 -0700
Subject: [2.2.1]How To Gracefully Shutdown an XML-RPC Server
References: <a38d43b0.0309261712.540f96da@posting.google.com> <yx6db.4829$RW4.3093@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a38d43b0.0309290936.26ab0f46@posting.google.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<yx6db.4829$RW4.3093 at newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> The Jetman:
> > I'm reading source code, but I haven't found any examples of
> > how to simply shutdown my XML-RPC server.
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/114579
> 
> Or you can ungracefully use os._exit, like pulling the emergency
> brake on a train.
> 
>                     Andrew
>                     dalke at dalkescientific.com

Andrew:

Thanx !  I *swear* I always spend at least a couple hours or so looking 
for stuf like this on my own !  That's the single most frustrating part 
about the Web (besides this idiotic W32.Swen virus/worm) !  No matter 
how you compose a query, there's always something that you miss....

BTW, I haven't tried it, but I bet os._exit will fail just like 
sys.exit().  Besides the reason for a graceful shutdown is more 
than cosmetic, since a forced shutdown (like a Ctrl-C) may occasionally 
leave the sockets allocated (which *has* happened.)

Later....Jet



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Sep 18 16:36:18 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:36:18 -0700
Subject: needs help in how to translate &#8820; and &#8821;
References: <mailman.1063887985.10861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6A1742.73915D17@alcyone.com>

"Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix)" wrote:

> On my terminal, I can display that character this way:
> >>> print unichr(8820).encode("utf-8")
> ???
> (I think that's a less-than symbol, "<" above an equivalent symbol (~)
> with a vertical bar through it, but I really can't tell in this
> font...)

Yep, that's what it is, see the entry 2274 (hex) here:

	http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2200.pdf

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ War is like love, it always finds a way.
\__/  Bertolt Brecht



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 26 08:55:54 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:55:54 -0400
Subject: Where to import modules?
References: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3F74375A.F9D4B0EB@engcorp.com>

Andreas Neudecker wrote:
> 
> I have a "style" question: Sometimes, modules will only be used in a
> particular, optional, part of a program (function, class), that will not
> always be used when the application is run. So I think it is better to
> import them only there, not on the top of the file (together with the
> other imports). Is that okay, or are there good reasons for not doing so?

There are not *strong* reasons for avoiding the delayed-import style,
although clearly maintainability can be affected.  It makes it somewhat
harder for a maintainer to see that a given module is used at all.

I would not bother putting imports that are rarely used in only the
functions which need them *unless* I had a really large module which
took a long time to import and I was actually having problems with 
startup time for the application.

Basically doing this is an optimization, and you shouldn't be optimizing
before the program is working, and you shouldn't be optimizing without
a real need for it.  (That is, just because it's a little faster doesn't
mean it's worth doing.)

-Peter



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 17 19:52:40 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:52:40 -0400
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <7xwuc7ouvw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3F68F3C8.6040206@hotmail.com>

Thank you (Paul & Duncan) for showing me how to do this!

Paul Rubin wrote:
> hokieghal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
>>------------------------------
>>a="192."
>>b="168."
>>c="1."
>>r = range(256)
>>for r in r:
>>	print a + b + c + r
> 
> 
> for r in range(256):
>   print "192.168.1.%d" % r





From hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de  Thu Sep 18 14:21:43 2003
From: hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 11:21:43 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <87llsma4fb.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <95b4b9ac.0309181021.14b45d65@posting.google.com>

> It will be harder to parse.

No because in many cases the reason why you want to use the syntax
l[seq] is that you already have seq, so you would refer to it by name
and "l[s]" is definitely not hard to parse.

>     l[:3] would be l[(0, 3)]
>     l[3:] would be l[(3,-1)]

Not at all. I was suggesting to use a semi-colon not a colon. Thus if 
l is (10,20,30,40), l[:3] -> (10,20,30) whereas l[(0,3)] -> (10, 30), 
i.e., same as in your class-based example, minus the parentheses, which
I now realize are superfluous (odd that python allows you to omit the
parentheses but not the commas).

> 2. Slicing two dimensional object will not be possible as the notion
>    you proposed is used just for that (ex. l[1,2] which is equivalent
>    to l[(1,2)] see below), and Numeric and numarray use it.

Same misunderstanding as above, I believe. Let, e.g., l be 
((1,10,100),(2,20,200),(3,30,300),(4,40,400)). Then l[2:; 1:] ->
[(30, 300), (40, 400)]. This is equivalent to [i[1:] for i in l[2:]]
but, at least to me, it is the index notation that is easier to parse.

Incidentally, it strikes me that there are a lot of superfluous
commas. Why not just (1 10 100) or even 1 10 100 instead of (1,10,100)? 
The commas do make the expression harder to parse visually.

> >>> # multi dimensional indexing
> >>> c[1,3]

I disagree that this is "multidimensional". You are passing a list 
and getting back a list, so this is still flat. I think you are
confusing dimensionality and cardinality.

> Numeric and numarray use it

This is good if it is true (I have yet to look at these two because
my work is not primarily numerical) but, again, the restriction of this
syntax to arrays, and arrays of numeric values at that, strikes me
as completely arbitrary.

The bottom line is that python claims to be simple but has a syntax
which, in this little corner at least, is neither simple nor regular:
xranges and slices are both sequence abstractions but are used in
different contexts and have different syntaxes; C-style arrays are
treated differently than lists of lists of ..., although they are
conceptually equivalent; numeric structures are treated differently
than non-numeric ones etc etc

Oh well. Maybe a future PEP will streamline all that. 

Hilde



From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 15:41:47 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:41:47 +0200
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
References: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bj84ir$g15$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"Marc" <losnations at comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA at comcast.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I was thinking about developing a drag and drop application and was
curious
> how difficult it is to do. Basically I want to have a set of objects that
I
> move around the screen and drop into place.
>
> Anyone else ever done it? Got any tips?

There is a nice example here using an as well nice Tree widget:
http://www.esrf.fr/computing/bliss/guides/python/modules/Tree/Tree.html

Kindly
Michael





From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 15:13:19 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:13:19 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <y/2W/kKkXcZZ092yn@gnosis.cx>         
Message-ID: <002801c37574$1f66e900$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

David/Lulu said:
>Yeah... this moves it from truly awful to merely bad.  So that's a good
>step.  Even so, the lines of text are squashed together vertically in
an
>awkward way that makes reading difficult.  I don't even really know how
>that effect was achieved (or in what browser)... is there a CSS
>attribute for "really small vertical spacing"?

1) it's an image
2) as an image created in fireworks, I expected line spacing to honor
html spacing. It doesn't however so I've fixed it. 

>In my experience, good pages remain good even in the complete absence
>of
>their CSS stylesheet.  Well, and CERTAINLY good pages do not embed
>ad-hoc <font> tags all over them, but I don't think the redesign demo
>did that.  While I'm only guessing, this is a page that would fare
>poorly with the CSS dropped, and with user-specified fonts and colors
>specfied.

1) it's an image
2) images don't have font tags
3) haven't got a clue what you mean about it fairing badly with css
dropped and fonts and colours changed. If by this you mean rendered in
text mode then the design would be a lot better than the existing site
as IT'S AN IMAGE you don't really have any way of knowing.

>The problem is that it is WAY over-designed.  It looks like something
>you'd design for a magazine, not for the web, with many browsers
>possible.  Parkins, or whoever, has a certain browser and screen size,
>and probably took out a ruler to align everything properly on that
>unique combination.

1) My name is parkin.
2) The site is designed to reflect the expectations of commercial
customers who are used to the likes of peoplesoft and atg, etc. also
it's designed to project an image to set Python alongside existing 
enterprise programming langagues (apologies for using the e word)
3) it's an image. Images don't stretch. If I make it any bigger
it would not fit in 800 wide browsers. A lot of designers make a choice
between fixed width and fluid. I would probably choose fluid for all
but the home page however I'm looking at fluid techniques for that too.

Tim






From ask at me.com  Wed Sep 24 02:01:18 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:01:18 GMT
Subject: Barcode generator for Python?
References: <mailman.1064348557.16937.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Oqacb.1215$NX3.109@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

"jennyw" <jennyw at dangerousideas.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064348557.16937.python-list at python.org...
> Does anyone know of a barcode generator for Python?  I'm looking to do
> this on Windows. It would be nice to find something free, but that's not
> necessary (so long as it's reasonable).  It doesn't have to be
> Python-specific, either, so long as I can call it from Python.  I'd love
> to hear any suggestions.
>
> I've seen bookland.py, but the kind of barcodes I'm looking to generate
> are not ISBN barcodes.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jen
>

I have a script that creates UPC barcodes, but that's not what you're
looking for, is it? If it is, let me know and I'll try and find the script.



greg





From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep  8 14:59:58 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:59:58 GMT
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062983352.15417.python-list@python.org> <qnY6b.42704$R32.1360114@news2.tin.it> <bjiec6$itc87$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Ok47b.31806$hE5.1140021@news1.tin.it>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:
   ...
>> So, you're asserting that the target audience of the site IS and
>> SHOULD BE
>> "developers".  Surprise, surprise: this assertion IS "a marketing
>> issue". Marketing BEGINS with the identification of target
>> audiences and the products and services that will best meet the
>> target audiences' need.
> 
> We're not, I believe, arguing about the target audience for
> Python.  We're arguing about the target audience for
> http://www.python.org.

Yes, and?  A site has a target audience just as assuredly as any
other product or service has.  If you don't consciously identify
that audience, it just "happens", but such "deciding to not
decide" is "marketing by accident" -- ineffective but still there.

> Further more, saying that the choice of a target audience or that
> the choice of the service and product to be provided is a
> marketing issue begs the question.  It just assumes that marketing
> should take over decisions about the direction of a company or a
> site.

Of course not, because there are constraints that it's not marketing's
job to identify, e.g. finances and technical issues.  It's from a
hopefully synergical interaction of marketing and other functions
that the direction emerges.


>> Many techies think of "marketing" as a dirty word because it's so
>> often
>> misused as an inappropriate synonym for "selling".  Using words
>> properly, marketing is a perfectly legitimate and important
>> activity: identify who you're addressing, address their needs
>> through appropriate products and services, communicate to them
>> that your products and services do address their needs, listen to
>> their feedback and adjust your products and services to meet their
>> needs even better, look for other audiences that might get their
>> needs met by your products and services possibily with some
>> modifications.
> 
> These are all good suggestions for a Python promotion site or for a
> site for a company that sells Python services.

These are suggestions totally independent from Python or any
other specifics.  Any entity that aims to further the success
and spread of [e.g.] Python, as the Python Software Foundation's
charter says, _had better_ keep these functions in mind.


> I am on the side of those who say that the marketing and
> promotion should not be done at the Python home page,
> http://www.python.org.  It does not seem to be the main focus at

And I am on the side of those who say that "wasting" the
obvious recognition value of www.BASENAMEHERE.org -- the
site that will be automatically visited by semismart browsers
if the user just types BASENAMEHERE on the URL field then
Enter -- would be totally absurd.

Techies know enough to follow links presented from said
page.  Non-techies need to be more pampered.

> http://www.perl.org/ nor at http://java.sun.com/.  What promotion

Look at www.java.com, *NOT* at java.sun.com.  The former is what
"the suits" visit by default.


Alex




From klappnase at web.de  Thu Sep  4 16:53:45 2003
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 13:53:45 -0700
Subject: Optionmenu.
References: <bj7j47$g5rpn$1@ID-108351.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0309041253.7b35e02d@posting.google.com>

Thor <thor__00 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bj7j47$g5rpn$1 at ID-108351.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> I have the following function (with some things removed):
> 
> def add_stock():    
>     stockw=Tk()
>     stockw.title("New stock solution")
>     sofl=Frame(stockw)
>     sofl.pack()
>     u=StringVar()
>     u.set("M")
>     cw=OptionMenu(sofl,u,"M","m","u","v","w")
>     cw.grid(row=1,column=2)
> 
> but the widget keeps not showing teh selected option. If I fo the same out
> of the function it works without problem (with stockw.mainloop()). What am
> I missing? Anybody can point me out to the solution/the right webpage?

Hi,

I'm not sure if that is your problem here, but I think you should not use pack()
and grid() inside the same window, otherwise strange things might happen.
Maybe with sofl.grid() it will work.

Michael



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Sep 30 22:45:39 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:45:39 -0500
Subject: distutils (packaging) newbie questions please....
In-Reply-To: <9Moeb.10508$NX3.4770@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <57AC2596-F3B9-11D7-B902-000393C2D67E@colorstudy.com>

On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 06:57 PM, Greg Krohn wrote:
>> 1. What exactly goes into the __init__.py files? I know what to put in
>> setup.py
>>     and I know __init__.py is used for packages but I don't know what
>> to put IN this file.
>
> You don't NEED to put anything in it, it works fine as an empty file. 
> You
> CAN put code in there to initialize your package, but personally I've 
> never
> had to.

As a minor detail, it is better to put something in there (like just a 
single #).  Some tools (WinZip in particular, I believe) ignore 
zero-length files in archives, which will cause problems in this case.

   Ian





From ak at nospam.com  Tue Sep 30 23:19:57 2003
From: ak at nospam.com (AK)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:19:57 GMT
Subject: I, monster: nethack-like game
References: <q02eb.44767$ai7.16580@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> <3F79D2F3.4F4FB1DD@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <xJreb.2$f11.1@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

In article <3F79D2F3.4F4FB1DD at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> AK wrote:
> 
>> Hi, I coded a little game in curses, loosely based on nethack but
>> where
>> you command the monsters against the hero (and his dog).
> 
> You might want to mention this in the rec.games.roguelike.development
> newsgroup.
> 
Thanks, will do..



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 02:20:58 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:20:58 +0100
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <nD7cb.2405$PT3.395618@news20.bellglobal.com> <Fi9cb.1443$RW4.368@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ttd2nvc2klbala95i1k0sodbcns7i3m2lt@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:44:21 GMT, "Andrew Dalke"
<adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>-1 from me.  'backwards' looks to me like something which changes
>the list ordering in place, like what 'reverse' does.  Or something
>which returns a new list but in reverse order.  It's an adjective,
>when it should be a verb.

I disagree with this. IMO something that modifies a value in place
should be named using a verb (such as reverse, or sort, or update...).
Something that returns a value without modifying its parameters/object
should be named to describe what it returns - normally a noun or
adjective (such as globals, len, isinstance).

So if we had a sorting function that returns a sorted version of the
parameter without modifying its parameter, I'd want it to be called
'sorted' as opposed to the current in-place 'sort'.

Of course there are non-modifying functions that are named as verbs
(map, filter and reduce being particularly obvious), but that does
seems slightly wrong to me - though for the ones I've listed there is
basically an overriding convention (they are well known names).


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Tue Sep  9 05:33:41 2003
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 09:33:41 GMT
Subject: Ternery operator
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <bjhrj4$2loh4$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de> <3F5C7CBD.A6C97371@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bjk6pl$2nir7$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Uwe Schmitt wrote:
>> 
>> Andrew Chalk <achalk at xxxmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote:
>> > Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?
>> 
>> > I.e.:
>> 
>> > fred = (x == 1) ? 12 : 15
>> 

> I would think a *Python* equivalent to ?: should not use
> direct equality comparison with 1.  Better to drop the "==1"
> parts in any of the above, to allow the usual Python interpretation
> of what is True and what is False to occur.

> ...so fred = [12, 15][not x]  is sufficient.

You made a mistake, compare :

          [12,15][not x]      (x==1) ? 12 : 15

    x=0   15                  15

    x=1   12                  12

    x=2   12                  15   

Normaly you should simulate "C ? T : F"

either by
             [T,F][not C]

or

             (C and [T] or [F])[0]

in the first case T and F are evaluated allways,
the latter solution does short circuit evaluation,
which is according to the C/C++ semantics of the
ternary operator.

Greetings, Uwe.

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt   http://www.procoders.net                      
schmitt at procoders.net      "A service to open source is a service to mankind."



From roy at panix.com  Sun Sep  7 09:02:07 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:02:07 -0400
Subject: Why python???
References: <3335321.1062775466@dbforums.com> <mbx6b.1996$Yt.953@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <eppstein-626068.20342506092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <roy-F9F065.09020607092003@reader2.panix.com>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
> I don't remember any discussion of student fears about relevance the 
> last few times the issue of which language to use came up at faculty 
> meetings.  Employability of our graduates, yes, but student bitching, no.

I think a university program needs to address both employability and 
theory.  It's inconcievable to me that somebody could get a degree in 
computer science these days without knowing C++ and Java.  It's equally 
inconcievable to me that they wouldn't also know several other languages.



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 26 06:24:41 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:24:41 +0200
Subject: Getting the Directory/Path details
References: <ab5a234a.0309250906.44b42beb@posting.google.com> <bkv866$u2n$07$1@news.t-online.com> <ab5a234a.0309260111.12dea1ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl147n$jjk$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Kali K E wrote:

> Thank you very much for the answer. It works fine when used first
> time. But when the directory already exists I am getting the following
> traceback message.
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "temp6.py", line 15, in ?
>     os.makedirs(os.path.join(folder, sf))
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 203, in makedirs
>     mkdir(name, mode)
> OSError: [Errno 17] File exists:
> '/hda1/home/kalike/chnages/python/result'
> 
> How do I take care in such a case?

I modified the code to accept already existing directories. The strategy is:
Try to create the directory
If creation fails, see if the directory already exists.
If yes move to the next directory, otherwise throw an exception.

class DirectoryException(Exception): pass

for sf in subfolders:
    dirpath = os.path.join(folder, sf)
    try:
        os.makedirs(dirpath)
    except OSError, e:
        if e.errno == 17:
            if not os.path.isdir(dirpath):
                raise DirectoryException, "'%s' can neither be created nor
is it an existing directory" % dirpath
        else:
            raise # cannot handle it here


> Also can you please let me know where I can search for all these OS or
> system calls. Is it available as a document some where?

It seems you are not familiar with the concept of Exceptions. So, if you
were already exposed to another programming language, I'd suggest reading
the tutorial that comes with your distribution first, otherwise look out
for a textbook.

The relevant links on the python site are (in recommended reading order):

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-os.path.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-os.html

Peter




From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Thu Sep  4 13:59:00 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:59:00 GMT
Subject: Tracking Sessions in a Python CGI app.
Message-ID: <E3L5b.1175$U45.838@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>

Is there a unique session ID created in a Python CGI app.?

If not, and I suspect not, what is the best way to keep track of the session
that loads each web page? I need to store form data from multiple forms
completed by the user. What is the best way to keep track of which user is
which?

Thanks!





From sheu at bu.edu  Thu Sep 18 13:41:24 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:41:24 -0400
Subject: file object: seek and close?
In-Reply-To: <bkcpdn$f1k$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.1063901845.25188.python-list@python.org> <bkcpdn$f1k$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F69EE44.5020100@bu.edu>

Hi,

I did some tests and it seems that it was the line that I defined list 
as a pdbdict0 object was causing the problem.

If I remove the line:

list = pdbdict0()

there would be no IOError messages.

I tried defining list  as a dictionary, and there was IOError as well.
However, if I defined list as a list, or defined any variable other than 
'list' as dict, it would be just fine. Really weird.

If I remove the seek method, there would be no IOError message either.

It seems that, f.seek plus ' list = somekind of dictionary' caused the 
file object to close.

Great thanks!

-shuhsien

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

class pdbdict0(dict):
    def __init__(self):
        super(dict, self).__init__()
        self['header'] = ''
        self['compnd'] = []

# read the pdb file
f = open('Z:\\3.4.21.1\\1acb.pdb', 'r')
             
# check if the file is an old type pdb (type = 0) or a new type pdb 
(type = 1)
type = 0
for lines in f:
    if lines[:6] == 'TITLE':
        type = 1
    if lines[:6] == 'COMPND':
        break
   
f.seek(0)


# read in the information

if type == 0:
    list = pdbdict0()      # << this line seems to be causing the file 
object to close
    for lines in f:
        lines = lines[:70]
..........................................................................

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\sheu\My 
Documents\precise\parspdbtest0.py", line 27, in -toplevel-
    for lines in f:
ValueError: I/O operation on closed file
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Sep  6 01:01:50 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:01:50 -0700
Subject: just curious
References: <rnd6b.904924$ro6.18233500@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3F596A3E.FBB3C3D@alcyone.com>

Elaine Jackson wrote:

> Any deep reason for this, or "just because"? TIA.

It's because the augmented assignment operators, like +=, are supposed
to efficiently mutate objects when they have the opportunity (at least
for the builtin classes).  So a = a + b always creates a new object, but
a += b might just mutate a preexisting object if that option is
available.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The great floodgates of the wonder-world swung open.
\__/  Herman Melville



From frr at easyjob.net  Fri Sep 12 06:16:35 2003
From: frr at easyjob.net (Fernando Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:16:35 +0200
Subject: Trouble with source-code encoding
Message-ID: <9u63mvoij7b8h2fh6tmj2e9af1akqjl3de@4ax.com>

Hi,

I just upgraded to Python2.3 and I'm getting a weird warning complaining about
the encoding and asking me to read a pep.  OK, I read the Pep and know what
syntax to specify the enconding:
# -*- coding: <encoding name> -*-

However, th epep doesn't list the name of valid  encodings.  What's the name
for west european encoding?



From Hoosbruin at Kconline.com  Thu Sep  4 19:06:36 2003
From: Hoosbruin at Kconline.com (Andy)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:06:36 -0500
Subject: Text file extract
Message-ID: <1PudndLL4fUZWMqiU-KYuA@kconline.com>

I have a test file and need to split the data based upon a record in a
certain field. Then write those record to a multiple files in different
folders.



 Example data:

RECORD 1)  ABCD,666,TOM,4.00,9/1/03
RECORD 2)  TYTY,666,TIM,4.00,9/1/03
RECORD 3)  ABCD,666,BILL,4.00,9/1/03
RECORD 4)  XXXX,666,TOM,4.00,9/1/03


All the fields will be comma separated and the 3rd field will contain the
record I will use to split.

 So records 1 and 4 get written to the same file call it Cust.txt and write
it to folder \\server\tom\Cust.txt
 Then record 2  gets written to cust.txt in a different folder
\\server\tim\cust.txt


  and so on.....

 I have never written a Python script so would like to see how this would be
done. I deal with a lot of text file input and would like to see how easy
Python handles this task..

 thanks in advance... If you could doc some of your code so I can follow
thru it .. would be great.
















From paul.moore at atosorigin.com  Mon Sep 29 07:49:03 2003
From: paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 04:49:03 -0700
Subject: What's the best MP3 (ID3) access library to use?
Message-ID: <182bcf76.0309290349.452a6643@posting.google.com>

I'm looking for a Python library to access ID3 information in MP3
files. A search of Parnassus picked up a number of possibilities, but
I can't work out which best suits what I'm trying to do. Some seem out
of date, others are Unix only, etc. There doesn't seem to be an
obvious "standard" module to use.

Basically, I want to write some scripts to "tidy up" a collection of
MP3 files, reporting oddities in information, rationalising details,
etc. So I believe that my requirements are:

- Works on Windows
- Allows easy access to title, artist, album info
- Allows updates

I don't know much about the technical details of MP3/ID3 formats, the
objective is basically to automate a slog through a large number of
files with an editor program.

An example of the sort of thing I want to do - I've got some files
with Artist = "Various" and Title = "Real Artist - Track Name" (from
compilation albums) and I'd like to change that to Artist = "Real
Artist", Title = "Track Name".

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Paul.



From br_y at yahoo.de  Thu Sep  4 08:43:19 2003
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:43:19 +0200
Subject: Arguments of function as out
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com> <wzoey20yy4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl> <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1@news.t-online.com> <c3C5b.11574$hE5.408554@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bj7c1u$kal$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Hallo Alex,
I hope this posting is near to the netiquette.

> Birgit, you do not seem to have *READ* the answer to which you are
> replying.
I dont understood this in the you described it.

> >> * If there is more than one result value, all of them are packed into a
> >>   tuple, and this tuple is returned.
I've read this, but I thought that this tuple is returned with the
return statement. I am new to python and I never seen such
a constract:

> Very well then,
> according to the Python language binding which Piet quoted to you,
> from the point of view of the Python client code calling X, X is
> returning a tuple which packs the three result values!
>
> So, you call it as:
>
>     a, b, c = X()
>
> and that's all!  Note you do NOT pass arguments corresponding to
> out parameters (you DO pass arguments corresponding to in and inout
> parameters, if any); you get result values corresponding to the
> function's nonvoid return if any (none here) followed by all out
> and inout parameters.

I have had only the IDL  and the py File from the IDL,
were stand take *args and return the return value.
In none of my python books such a construct is described. I'm sorry.

Thanks for helping me,
Birgit





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Wed Sep 24 21:47:07 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:47:07 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <vNrcb.6695$yD1.1137011@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message
news:95rcb.2002$yU5.1775 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.

# from PEP 322
"""
Rejected Alternative Ideas
[snip]
Add a builtin function, reverse() ...
"""

Do you mean add a function reverse() (or ireverse()) to the itertools
library, or to __builtins__?





From tvassila at siac.com  Fri Sep 19 10:42:00 2003
From: tvassila at siac.com (Thanos Vassilakis)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:42:00 -0400
Subject: Pythonic way of web-programming
Message-ID: <OF18CA4E93.B5B1C10F-ON85256DA6.00504E7D-85256DA6.0050BCFE@nsmtp.siac.com>

You should look at pso - truly OO and Python

We generally develop our web services  with pso using CGI. Then release in
production under mod_python. PSO abstracts the service handling.

You don't really need to learn about mod_python and some things are just
much easier:
1) getting environment variables
2) setting and getting cookies,
3) file uploads
4) setting return status
5) redirection
And  a lot more

see:

 user guide: http://www.scriptfoundry.com/modules/pso/doc/pso-guide.html
 sessions and mod_python:
 http://www.scriptfoundry.com/modules/pso/doc/session-modpython.html
 and the building a site:
 http://www.scriptfoundry.com/modules/pso/doc/pso-example.html


thanos




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From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Fri Sep 12 07:07:39 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:07:39 -0400
Subject: mixing for x in file: and file.readline
In-Reply-To: <rowen-222487.13545311092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <rowen-222487.13545311092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20030912110739.GA43783@hishome.net>

On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 01:54:53PM -0700, Russell E. Owen wrote:
> At one time, mixing for x in file and readline was dangerous. For 
> example:
> 
> for line in file:
>   # read some lines from a file, then break
> nextline = readline() # bad
> 
> would not do what a naive user might expect because the file iterator 
> buffered data and readline did not read from that buffer. Hence the call 
> to readline might unexpectedly skip some lines.
> 
> I stumbled across this the hard way, but am wondering if it's still 
> present in Python 2.3. 

Yes. 

After you start reading a file with 'for' or iter() the current file 
position is undefined unless you continue to the end of the file. This 
means that once you start you shouldn't use the read(), readline() or 
tell() methods unless you first seek() to a well-defined position.

The readline() and read() methods use the buffered I/O operations supplied 
by the underlying C library. You can safely intermix read() and realine() 
as well as tell()ing and seek()ing around without encountering any 
unexpected behavior. You can even mix read operations on the same file 
from Python code and stdio calls from an extension module (after getting
the FILE* object using PyFile_AsFile).  

File iteration uses its own buffering for performance. Guido has declared
that "for line in fileobj:" should always be the fastest way to read an
entire file line by line. You just can't do that with the crappy stdio
implementations out there without adding your own buffering layer. Once
you do that it is out of sync with the FILE* object's idea of the current 
file position. 

In Python 2.2 if you break in the middle of the loop the temporary 
iterator object (xreadlines) is lost along with its readahead buffer, 
leaving you at an unknown file position. The only things you can do are 
to close the file or seek. In Python 2.3 the file object IS an iterator 
(rather than HAS and iterator) so while the current file position is 
undefined from a read/readline/tell point of view the iterator state is
still consistent so you can immediately use it in another for loop to 
continue from the same position or even call its next() method directly.

> Anyone know if it's still an issue? If so, anyone have any idea how hard 
> it would be to fix? I'm willing to work on a patch, but would probably 
> need some help. And if experts have already determined it's too hard, 
> and are willing to expain, I'd love some idea of why that is.

Really fixing it amounts to reimplementing the entire I/O layer of 
Python with a different strategy and thoroughly testing on multiple 
platforms. 

It's possible to hide the problem in most cases by making read and 
readline use the iteration readahead buffer if it's attached to the file
object and stdio if it isn't. I don't think it's a good idea. It will
require some hairy code and and seems susceptible to subtle bugs and
corner cases.

Another alternative it to make read and readline fail noisily after 
iteration starts (unless cleared by seek())

    Oren




From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 18:39:05 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:39:05 +0200
Subject: Optionmenu.
References: <bj7j47$g5rpn$1@ID-108351.news.uni-berlin.de> <a7a67196.0309041253.7b35e02d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj8ev9$1ei$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"klappnase" <klappnase at web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not sure if that is your problem here, but I think you should not use
pack()
> and grid() inside the same window, otherwise strange things might happen.
> Maybe with sofl.grid() it will work.
>
> Michael

Yes of course that's it!  I posted same advice some days ago. I overlooked
it because it - strangely - worked on my machine. But there seems to be
different behaviour with Tk 8.3 and 8.4

Kindly
Michael P





From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Sep  3 03:52:49 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:52:49 GMT
Subject: artifical intelligence
References: <mailman.1062522967.5523.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l5h5b.6636$hE5.222040@news1.tin.it>

ajsiegel at optonline.net wrote:

>  >Arthur wrote:
>  ...
>  >> *Our* intelligence seems to give us a read as to where on the bell
>  >> curve a particular event may lie, or a least some sense of when we are
>  >> at an
> 
>>Wrong: human beings are *eager* pattern-matching devices, extremely prone
>>to detect "patterns" that just don't exist in statistically significant
>>ways. There's quite a substantial body of literature, by now, on the
>>general issue of frequent fallacies on reasoning about probabilities.
> 
> I can accept a "poorly expressed".  Not sure I can sign onto a "wrong".

The single line of text following this one is one of the longest I've
ever seen posted to Usenet - my compliments.  Not sure why KDE's KNode
showed it to me as a single line (with a left-right scrollbar to let
me eventually view it all) but managed to fold it for reply purposes!-).


> actual occurrrence of an "unlikely" occurrence.  That sense that something
> unlikely has occurred is not wrong.  And it is hard to put a finger on
> everything that goes into coming to such a conclusion. And therefore, I
> would presume, difficult to program.

Actually, I stick with our line from back in the '80s, when I was doing
speech recognition with IBM Research on a strictly probabilistic basis:
what we had on our T-shirts was

    P(A|B) = P(B|A)P(A)/P(B)

and you know, there IS really nothing more to it than this formula from
1764... almost;-).  And, it IS easy to program, if programmers were in
fact humble enough to study and apply statistics and probability rather
than looking for "artificial intelligence" silver bullets!-)

One thing you do have to estimate heuristically, in order to be able
to apply Bayes' theorem to many cases of practical use, is the probability
at any time (given an existing body of observations) that the next thing
(combination of features) you're going to observe is going to be one
you never observed yet (as opposed to, one among the set you did
observe).  Turing formulated a good heuristic for that, and, I'm told,
that heuristic is widely used in biometrics (trying to determine
correlations between e.g. umpteen possible features of a butterfly --
long vs short legs, ditto antennae, coloring, wingshape details, ...).

I think my own heuristic (a bit more prudent/pessimistic than Turing's)
works even better (we did validate that in terms of prediction performance
of recognition systems using either heuristic but otherwise identical, and
I also have handwaving considerations to justify it).  Turing's heuristic
boils down to: number of different observations that were made ONCE, divided
by total number of observations.  So, if your observations so far have been:
    1 2 1 3 5 3 5 4 7 7 ...
having made 10 observations in total, of which two (items 2 and 5) were
observed only once, Turing's heuristic would predict a probability of 0.2
for the next observation being "a surprise" (one never seen before, i.e.
one not in the set {1,2,3,4,5,7}).  My heuristic boils down to: number
of _different_ observations, divided by total number of observations; so,
my heuristic would predict a probability of 0.6 for the next observation
being "a surprise" (6 different things observed in 10 observations).  The
difference in prediction is never as high in practical use cases (with
MANY observations having been made -- ten isn't "many":-), and of course
there's all sort of implicit hypotheses (e.g. practically-infinite
alphabet of possible observations compared to the number of actual
observations -- when each observation is a combination of many separate
features, combinatorial explosion basically guarantees that:-).  One
could no doubt adjust either heuristic to work better for cases where
these hypotheses may fail (e.g. after observing "4 3 1 2" both heristics
predict a suprise probability of 1.0, as if repetition of any of the
4 observations already made, once each, was impossible -- that is clearly
over-predicting surprises!-).


Alex




From colarte at telesat.com.co  Mon Sep 29 21:31:31 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:31:31 -0500
Subject: ANN Tkinter Calendar Widget
Message-ID: <20030929203131.3eacfe21.colarte@telesat.com.co>

If you ever need a calendar dialog in Tkinter , You can use mine:
	 http://pythonical.sourceforge.net/pyTkCalendar.html
Camilo Olarte




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 11:19:05 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:19:05 +0100
Subject: None???
References: <EV6bb.1834$iT4.1283814@news1.news.adelphia.net> <m2he37549i.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net> <3F6D68AA.9070603@aon.at> <eppstein-AAC3F1.11134721092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <4l4umv4kl82d8t5td29in26cfb57ctb6h0@4ax.com>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:13:47 -0700, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>Arguably, any code that uses / with integer arguments is now buggy, 
>because it will produce different results in different Python versions.  
>You should either use // (integer division) or force floating point 
>division (e.g. by changing the expression to income*percent/100.0).

What's the behaviour of "from __future__ import division" on versions
that are too old to know about the future of division?



From nospamius at lundhansen.dk  Sun Sep  7 03:49:51 2003
From: nospamius at lundhansen.dk (Bertel Lund Hansen)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:49:51 +0200
Subject: Accessing a file with contents
Message-ID: <11ollv853r5jcg977flacu8fl77smei67c@news.stofanet.dk>

Hi all

I have made some pages where PHP produces a menu and gets the
contents from separate files. It works okay. But something I read
made me wonder if there smarter ways to access the content file.

At present I use include($content). Now I realize that this means
that the conten file is PHP-parsed. I use that in some cases so I
probably won't change it.

If however I only needed to get the text and send it directly to
the browser, is it true then that just I can use

	<?  readfile($contents);  ?>

or

	<?  file($contents);
	      some_smart_way_of_printing_an_array();
	?>

Can I trust that readfile() will send the contents to the browser
without a specific print() command?

I read a note about the new version of file_get_contents() not
being very fast (since it got binarysafe). Do others agree with
this?

I did not see any particular difference in speed when I tried
readfile() instead of include(). Does it matter?

-- 
Bertel, Denmark



From mark at hahnca.com  Tue Sep 30 19:10:09 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:10:09 -0700
Subject: need help with PyXML
Message-ID: <p3oeb.4606$hp5.3567@fed1read04>

I am trying to parse HTML for the first time.  I first installed
4Suite-1.0a3.win32-py2.3.exe and then realized I didn't need it.  Then I
installed PyXML-0.8.3.win32-py2.3.exe.  Now when I try to execute this as
the first line of my module ...

from xml.dom.ext.reader import Sax2

... I get this Exception ...

Sequence index out of range: list index out of range

Traceback (innermost last):

File "<string>", line 1, in ?

File "c:\codeshare\codeshare.py", line 4, in ?
  from xml.dom.ext.reader import Sax2
File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\__init__.py", line 223, in
?
      from xml.dom.html import HTMLDOMImplementation
File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\html\__init__.py", line
445, in ?
  g_numCharEntityPattern = re.compile('&#(\d+);')
File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre.py", line 179, in compile
      return _compile(pattern, flags)
File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre.py", line 227, in _compile
          p = sre_compile.compile(pattern, flags)
File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 469, in compile
      code = _code(p, flags)
File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 453, in _code
      _compile(code, p.data, flags)
File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 88, in _compile
              _compile(code, av[1], flags)
File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 69, in _compile
                  _compile(code, av[2], flags)
File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 27, in _compile
      for op, av in pattern:
File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_parse.py", line 138, in __getitem__
          return self.data[index]





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 17:31:45 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:31:45 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net> <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org> <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <810fmvcc18e3apgp23mt3dqc7dsdgkm3gj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:22:41 +0300, rumours say that Harri Pesonen
<fuerte at sci.fi> might have written:

[snip description of alternative python multithreading mechanisms
allowing riddance of the GIL]

>It is more efficient to have one process and several threads, than 
>several processes each having one thread.

Please define 'efficient' as used in your statement.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep  8 10:16:11 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:16:11 -0400
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
References: <mailman.1062982932.16437.python-list@python.org> <87fzj7cvbv.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw@comcast.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:87fzj7cvbv.fsf at pobox.com...
> It seems fairly clear by now that the purpose of the mockup was to

What we were directed to was *not* a mockup (model), but an image of a
mockup.  That mislabeling was a source of misunderstanding which
generated part of the criticism.  Please let us keep the useful
distinction between a thing and an image of the thing.

Terry J. Reedy





From ulope at gmx.de  Mon Sep  1 11:49:34 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 17:49:34 +0200
Subject: Declaration of an array of unspecified size
References: <m814lvc8h44vbd5g1m2iv05r33qg8ag9ta@news.stofanet.dk> <biu6k0$c8fs4$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <biv3jc$h3b$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bivpqf$dmj8a$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:biv3jc$h3b$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
>
> You followed the OP into using "pop" as a name for an instance.
> However "pop" is also a *method* of type list. While it's not as bad
> as for example using the name "str" for a string ("str" is a build-in
> function which is not reachable anymore if it's name is used this way)
> this still makes my spider sense tingle. Whether it's because you
> failed to mention this or just because it's dialectical I don't know

Thanks. I missed that indeed (perhaps due to the time when i wrote that post
;).

Cu Ulrich





From jseb at cs.mcgill.ca  Tue Sep 30 01:05:28 2003
From: jseb at cs.mcgill.ca (Jean-S?bastien Bolduc)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 22:05:28 -0700
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <vndo742ca2f10@corp.supernews.com> <C30548A9-F240-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu> <mailman.1064845475.29494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56e1eff0.0309292105.bab5a2@posting.google.com>

> > How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
> > 
> > One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x == 
> > type(2387482734274)) and ...
> 
> Why do you want to do so? Maybe, it is better in your
> case to just run the piece of code using the number, and
> if it fails, it fails. However, if you must, you need to
> do type(x) is type(1) and ... etc., or isinstance(x, int)
> and isinstance(x, float), etc.

I used to use the latter approach suggested by Gerrit, but I recently
found on the web an alternative, elegant approach that might work
(sorry, I don't recall where I found it!):

hasattr(x, '__int__')

If the "__int__" method is defined for "x", it is a number. This will
work for integer, long, float and complex types, as well as for custom
classes that emulate numeric types.

Regards,
JSeb



From essai1 at mci.local  Sun Sep  7 13:19:05 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 19:19:05 +0200
Subject: win32com: create email message in windows default app?
References: <z9I6b.18545$n94.7236@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <bjfpt5$l3s$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

But what is "windows default email application" ?

In windows, with WSH, you can write :
    Dim str,objEmail
    Set objEmail = CreateObject("CDO.Message")
    objEmail.From = "toto at titi.fr"
    objEmail.To = "tata at tutu.com"
    objEmail.Subject = "Msg-try"
    objEmail.Textbody = "Corps (body) du (of) message."
    objEmail.Send
    Wscript.quit
And run, without pb.
Other way : use MAPI application (essentially outlook-express, or outlook),
but the "default notion" is bad definition  (why MAPI more than CDO or more
than Python-library ? )

Windows give sockets and applications use sockets, without priority.
Applications like yours, virus, trojan, anti-virus, python-scripts, etc.

-sorry for my poor english-

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
site :   http://mclaveau.com





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 20:58:46 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:58:46 -0400
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
Message-ID: <GR9W/kKkXwkD092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

<tim at pollenation.net> wrote:
|2) as an image created in fireworks, I expected line spacing to honor
|html spacing. It doesn't however so I've fixed it.

I don't know what 'fireworks' is, I suppose it must be some kind of design
application.  But I figured the image was a screenshot of a rendered
page... if not, it indeed might appear a bit different as rendered in an
actual browser.

|1) it's an image

You keep writing this; not just to me, but on c.l.py too.  I can't quite
figure out what relevance you perceive this fact to have.

|2) images don't have font tags

Nope... but screenshot images can be made of browsers displaying pages
with font tags.  I was guessing in the negative that your page was
produced (indirectly) from such an HTML document; but perhaps no HTML was
ever involved.

|3) haven't got a clue what you mean about it fairing badly with css
|dropped and fonts and colours changed. Name me a site that would.

I don't remember a URL offhand, since those are--almost by definition
--sites I do not visit more than once.  But, for example, I find some
pages choose absurdly small font sizes for various elements; which makes
me very happy that I use Mozilla, which has an option for "minimum font
size".  It doesn't seem always to work, I still sometimes see tiny fonts
(I dunno how they get by Moz exactly, maybe Javascript or something).
But more often, once the fonts are forced to a readable size, the layout
becomes almost unreadable.  Sometimes different texts render on top of
each other (I think because of the <layers> tag, but it could be something
else).  Or other times, a text box winds up with one word per line once a
readable font is used.

Your demo looks a lot like one of those types of sites.  It's hard to be
sure exactly how it might render if no HTML was ever involved in the
design though.

|2) The site has to reflect the expectations of commercial customers who
|are used to the likes of peoplesoft and atg, etc.

I suppose.  I'm probably not a "commercial customer", whatever that is...
on the other hand, I *am* probably the most widely read writer on Python
topics, worldwide (a lot more people read free developerWorks articles
than buy books; although a good number bought my book too).  I suppose
Andy Kuchling gets widely read with his "What's New in ..." and other
articles, so maybe more read him.

|3) it's an image. Images don't stretch. If I make it any bigger it would
|not fit in 800 wide browsers.

Then it should BE an image, not an HTML page that creates framing elements
but embeds an image in the middle in a way that hides what's an image and
what's HTML.  If you had taken that more sensible approach, no one on
c.l.py would have missed that fact they were looking at an image.

I reckon you'd be a lot better off taking the near unanimous criticism of
your design seriously than you will be indignantly protesting about the
fact your design is an image.  I think I'd recommend that even if I
understood why you think the image thing is relevant.

Yours, David...





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep  9 03:48:10 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:48:10 +0300
Subject: os.listdir
References: <2ce42702.0309081441.5c73a772@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <k11rlvk0mt25ulgdtauesgoq0s7crladch@4ax.com>

On 8 Sep 2003 15:41:58 -0700, rumours say that pulapaka at ligo.caltech.edu
(Hari) might have written:

>What I wanted to know was, is it guaranteed that between 2 calls
>os.listdir any files added to the directory are appended and the
>earlier order is maintained?

No, the order of filenames in os.listdir depends on underlying
(file|operating) system.

The easiest way to find differences would be to use sets.  Example:
check the /tmp directory for changes in 30 seconds time:

>>> import os, time
>>> import sets
>>> os.chdir("/tmp")
>>> files0 = sets.Set(os.listdir("."))
>>> time.sleep(30)
files1 = sets.Set(os.listdir("."))
>>> >>> print files1 - files0
Set(['new-file'])

ie shows only the file I created in another session for the purpose of
this example.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Mon Sep  8 13:31:04 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:31:04 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062983352.15417.python-list@python.org> <qnY6b.42704$R32.1360114@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bjiec6$itc87$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> 
>> "Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote
>> previously:
>> |Please could we move this discussion to one of the appropriate
>> |lists as
>> |well.  I suggest python-marketing to begin with.
>> 
>> A marketing list is just not an appropriate forum for discussing
>> redesigning the main python website.  The page www.python.org
>> just simply should not be driven primarily, or even
>> significantly, by "marketing" issues... it's us developers who
>> use it, in the overwhelming majority.
> 
> So, you're asserting that the target audience of the site IS and
> SHOULD BE
> "developers".  Surprise, surprise: this assertion IS "a marketing
> issue". Marketing BEGINS with the identification of target
> audiences and the products and services that will best meet the
> target audiences' need.
> 

We're not, I believe, arguing about the target audience for
Python.  We're arguing about the target audience for
http://www.python.org.

Further more, saying that the choice of a target audience or that
the choice of the service and product to be provided is a
marketing issue begs the question.  It just assumes that marketing
should take over decisions about the direction of a company or a
site.

> Many techies think of "marketing" as a dirty word because it's so
> often
> misused as an inappropriate synonym for "selling".  Using words
> properly, marketing is a perfectly legitimate and important
> activity: identify who you're addressing, address their needs
> through appropriate products and services, communicate to them
> that your products and services do address their needs, listen to
> their feedback and adjust your products and services to meet their
> needs even better, look for other audiences that might get their
> needs met by your products and services possibily with some
> modifications.

These are all good suggestions for a Python promotion site or for a
site for a company that sells Python services.

No one is arguing that marketing and sales are illegitimate.
David Mertz has already offered to sell "Python in a box with
extras" for $299, possibly even for less if you say, "Guido sent
me".  But, please don't do it at http://www.python.org.

I am on the side of those who say that the marketing and
promotion should not be done at the Python home page,
http://www.python.org.  It does not seem to be the main focus at
http://www.perl.org/ nor at http://java.sun.com/.  What promotion
is done at those sites (and the current Python home site) is done
through helping developers and not through paid endorsements etc.
The Java site, by the way, looks like they copied www.python.org,
then polished it and edited it for Java.

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep 25 19:28:38 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:28:38 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <u172glc2.fsf@python.net> <bktgkc$5gk64$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <ad8tfdwv.fsf@python.net> <DdacnR-12Jpma--iU-KYvA@comcast.com> <smmkex9o.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <CKCdnSDxdui65-6iXTWJhg@comcast.com>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:smmkex9o.fsf at python.net...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
> > I agree that a separate Windows run-only distribution (including
.pyc
> > instead of .py files) would be a good idea.
>
> Why would you distribute .pyc instead of .py files?

Off the top-of-my-head thought: so they could be pre-zipped without
interpreter having to write them.  But I remember now discussion of
turning off .pyc writes if desired.  Anyway, such decisions are for
the doers.

>Most of the time
> they are not even smaller, and tracebacks would be problematic.

Tracebacks?  Production consumer apps shouldn't have them, should
they? :-)

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Sep 19 00:52:00 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 06:52:00 +0200
Subject: Unicode 4.0 updates to unicodedata?
References: <opstad-79936B.15531718092003@news.inreach.com>
Message-ID: <m3smmtgz2n.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

David Opstad <opstad at batnet.com> writes:

> Anyway, on to the question. Now that Unicode 4.0 has been released (just 
> got my copy today), any guesses on how long before the unicodedata 
> module will be updated to include all the new names?

It might happen for Python 2.4, but by the time Python 2.4 is
released, the Unicode 4.0 database might get skipped, and Python might
incorporate Unicode 4.2 (or some such) instead.

The tricky part is that IDNA specifies Unicode 3.2 as the basis of
international domain names, so some technology must be found to
incorporate two versions of the database in Python, without adding too
much overhead.

> How do things like that work, anyway; is there somebody whose task
> it is to update that, or are they awaiting volunteers to help out?

In general, it would be somebody's task (i.e. mine) to incorporate a
new version. However, since this is more than running the generator
again (as actual code changes have to go with it), contributions are
welcome.

> And once the module is updated, is it generally usable on earlier
> Python releases (I'm running the 2.2 that came with the OS X
> developer package for Jaguar)?

If you want to backport that database yourself, you could just as well
create your own version of the Unicode 4.0 database. Just run the
generator, and rename the unicodedata module to unicodedata40 (inside
the module's source code). Python won't then use this database
internally (for .is*, and .upper, ...), but you could readily invoke
the unicodedata40 functions yourself.

Regards,
Martin




From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 29 10:49:14 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 15:49:14 +0100
Subject: query
References: <2003929-93022-80040@foorum.com>
Message-ID: <87pthj3b11.fsf@pobox.com>

drn <bmproj2003 at yahoo.com> writes:

> sir/madam,

Oops.  Your subject line and this formal greeting makes your message
look like spam.  People rarely say anything more formal than 'hi' on
USENET, and quite often nothing at all.  And your subject line tells
people almost exactly nothing (and why is that Re: there -- you're not
replying to any message, are you?).


>  as we are going to develop a educational s/w for children at preprimary level 
> we are facing some problems in deciding what platform to choose and what s/w to 
> use. so please help.
> -we have more of graphics work.

What kind of graphics?  I don't know the right questions to ask you
here, but telling us whether it's 2D or 3D would be a start...


> -we have two students working simutaneously on one system.
> -we will be having 4-5 systems in total in one classroom.
> 
> -----shall we go for one system as a linux sever with somewhat higher 
[...]

This isn't a Python question.  Try one of the comp.os.linux* groups,
perhaps.


> -----which lanuage do you suggest - c/c++ or any browser based software like 
> php/python.

You need to give more information about your objectives.  Certainly
I'd strongly reccommend all newbies to avoid C and C++ like the plague
until they know *exactly* why they need them (you may well not need
them at all).

Still, you might like to look at Pygame:

http://pygame.org/


> please help and send your suggestions as soon as possible.
> my email id is bmproj2003 at yahoo.com

It's usually called an "email address", not an "email id".  :-)


John



From daniel at dittmar.net  Mon Sep 22 17:46:36 2003
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:46:36 +0200
Subject: Calling functions before that are def'ed
In-Reply-To: <944840ff.0309221318.35d2f9cd@posting.google.com>
References: <944840ff.0309221318.35d2f9cd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bknqk1$3qt$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Charles Larry wrote:
> Is there a way to define functions after the main part of a Python
> script?
> 
> Example:
> 
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> 
> # this code yields a NameError
> 
> print_message("hello world")
> 
> def print_message(msg):
>     print msg

#!/usr/local/bin/python

def main ():
     print_message("hello world")

def print_message(msg):
     print msg

if __name__ == "__main__":
     main ()

def statements are really executable statements and not declarations, so 
the order is important.

Daniel




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 23 10:29:44 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:29:44 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu> <cthvmvk3uif5qt1hkftmp2hbdia74fjq3d@4ax.com> <bkp40c$j0o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <_9Vbb.105320$hE5.3711223@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064315851.23004.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sNYbb.148529$R32.4815673@news2.tin.it>

Gerrit Holl wrote:

> Alex Martelli wrote:
>> >> Also, one extra feature is that the loop can be infinite (which range
>> >> and xrange cannot achieve)...
>> >>
>> >>   for i in int [0:] :
>> 
>> No way, Jose -- now THAT would break things (in admittedly rare
>> cases -- a method expecting a list and NOT providing an upper bound
>> in the slicing).  I'd vote for this to be like int[0:sys.maxint+1]
>> (i.e., last item returned is sys.maxint).
> 
> This one breaks the int/long unification. In an ideal unification
> of ints and longs, sys.maxint would not exist any more, and the
> upper bound would be seemingly random.

If this is the "party line" -- that not providing an upper bound
when indexing int should generate an infinitely looping iterator --
then I think the risk of nasty bugs would probably be too high, and
I would reluctantly -1 the otherwise nice proposal.  I'd rather
have the missing upper bound be an error in this case (and rely on
itertools.count for very explicit building of infinitely looping
iterators) than "easily create infinities" in response to typos;-).


Alex




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Sep  3 12:24:41 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 16:24:41 GMT
Subject: Location of bytecode files (pyc)
References: <6f03c4a5.0309021745.3a79d951@posting.google.com> <m3ekyyjw0o.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bj54k9$tpl$0@216.39.172.122>

On 03 Sep 2003 07:12:07 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote:

>rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:
>
>> How can I control the location of the bytecode files?
>
>You currently can't. See PEP 304, though, at
>
>http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0304.html
>
>Comments on the PEP are encouraged: If you won't comment now on
>whether the proposed change would solve your problem, it might be that
>you find something useless got implemented later.
>
Personally, I am a minimalist when it comes to environment variables.
IMO that name space has the same problems as any global namespace,
and since a single default set of user's environment variables tends to
presented to most programs s/he runs from a command window, the name space
usage tends towards a hodgepodge and/or wrapping apps in setup scripts (which
can work fine, but I still don't like it as a standard way to go).

IMO the os.environ name space should be treated like a root directory name space,
and not have application data per se in it (with reluctant exceptions where it is used wholesale
as in CGI). Rather, IMO, and only if necessary in the first place, it should be used to specify
location or search path info for config data, not *be* config data.

And a user-set environment variable should not be able to cause a bypass of root/admin-defined
config info where the distinction is necessary.

(The PYTHONBYTECODEBASE variable does refer to a directory, but now that makes two variables,
counting PYTHONPATH, and where will it end?)

Provision for admin/root level config data separate from user preference and session state type
config data should be made as necessary and desirable, but secondary/user config data search
should be controllable by the primary/root/admin config data (which e.g. could say to ignore
or use user-controlled/attempted-control environment variables etc.).

This would seem to imply a standard place to look for root/admin level config data, not directed
by env variable. E.g., a read-only file in the same directory as the python interpreter executable,
with, say, .conf or .cfg appended to the name. *That* file can then specify how/whether to look
for user config stuff etc., or specify password access to some features, etc. etc., if we wind up
doing restricted exec stuff.

A user config file overriding any other *user* config info could be specified by command line option,
e.g., -cfg myConfigFile.conf, and whether this or other command line options were allowed could be
(and should be able to be when control is necessary) specified in the root/admin config file.

... just my .02USD

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Sep 11 03:56:31 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:56:31 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>
 <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
 <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>
 <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>
 <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org> <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
 <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
 <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org>
 <mailman.1063251143.12678.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnbm08ud.d9.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <blCY/kKkXgGD092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <vqCY/kKkXEub092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl> wrote previously:
|I think it's a mistake to cite Lott here. As an extreme libertarian he
|has shown his own bias a couple of times. His famous "More guns, less
|crime" findings has been challenged recently (see e.g.
|http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,562387,00.html

As well as Lott's tendency to outright falsify data, which Staniak
cites, Lott is pretty much an unabashed White Supremicist ideologue,
e.g.:

    http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/wholott.htm

He's actually quite a nut in a lot of ways other than that, for example
arguing that dioxin is harmless to people; or that wealthy people should
not be punished for committing violent crimes, only poor people.

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep  4 09:22:16 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:22:16 -0400
Subject: test
References: <6QF5b.581$FJ5.34940@twister.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pSadnZpJEJMUocqiXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"Jamey Cribbs" <jcribbs at twmi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:6QF5b.581$FJ5.34940 at twister.columbus.rr.com...
> Please disregard this messag

Please use misc.test to test-post: first open that newsgroup and
'catchup' (have newsreader mark all as read; then make test post with
distinctive subject, then wait a bit, depending on your news source,
then reopen misc.test (with ignore-read-messsages set) and look for
post.

Terry J. Reedy






From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Sep 19 11:50:47 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:50:47 -0700
Subject: Fsrit Propttoye: SCLABMRE
In-Reply-To: <16232.24354.366003.171152@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16232.24354.366003.171152@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <200309190850.47841.gherron@islandtraining.com>

Wow!  This otavbeiorsn is both aimznag and eaittnnnerig.
I was trohugh the Sjceubt: line and into the fisrt
senencte brefoe I even rleeiazd annhtiyg was odd.

Tahkns,
Gary Herron


On Wednesday 17 September 2003 06:18 am, Frnak "Sealmbcrd Eggs" Lomax wrote:
> I hvae jsut fhiseind rniedag a Shdlaost atrlcie from Mnoday, Sbepemetr
> 15th, aobut an ingtriniug sdtuy from Cgbdirmae Uinevtrsiy, dciinesrbg
> how wodrs with thier itienrors selmrbacd can siltl be rdbaleae.
> Bcaeuse of the tioeznme that I lvie in, an initettrment dfceet in my
> clbae medom, and the lneiignrg atfer-ecfefts of my lsat "mohsroum
> salad exntarvzagaa", I am aaylws two days bhneid on the Web.
>
> So suentnd was I at the icoinatpimls of this study, taht I
> cunlqtneesoy decedid to doetve my etrnie lfie and gtelray aeamssd
> fnrtoue on cunitodcng ftrhuer rasreech and dnpeeelmvot into tihs
> lifnsaevig tghlocnoey.  As a cross-eeyd dxsiyelc, I konw that teshe
> cilmas of svotailan are niehetr hlroyepbe nor bmobaistc
> over-daaomtiazitrn.
>
> Pnseetred hree for your rveiew, aaovpprl and disiscsuon, is our
> poyptotre sytsem, caelld SLABCRME for SeCren Rslmnebeig Aacrihc
> Mnoaaluptiin of BetaoLd Ecuitolon.  I have scnie bugen a meosdt
> sutartp based in Aceicdnt Maarnlyd, and we will soon be reeianlsg an
> Olutook puglin, anolg with a sftorwae devmoeelpnt kit, and oethr
> digintoasc tloos.  Smoe of our tlgeocnhoy wlil nallaruty be open
> sruoce, but I do ietnnd and ecpext to frutehr etnxed my hoougmuns
> wtaleh by sinlelg sftorawe lcseiens and srhink wrapped ratiel pocrudt.
> Psaele cactnot us for more iomrfaiontn.
>
> I'm aslo in enpommelyt duicnssioss wtih the Tmboit; I ecepxt that he
> can bosot the pmecarrofne of our pooyptrte's itmpeanetolmin
> salreolefvd, at wcihh piont we will be pthincig emdbeded ssmeyts to
> the mfntacuuearrs of ruoters, eiltncreoc trprwyeiets, psnreoal dtaiigl
> astsntsais, eorctinlec cepmutor coltlerond tersotas, maet prbeos, RFC
> 1149 digtail cemara pheons, and nxet gniaoetern wopehoe csionuhs.
>
> hinpog-to-be-deotersyd-by-moroscift-ly y'rs,
> -fnark






From yaipa at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 03:54:26 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 00:54:26 -0700
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <mailman.1062872349.11430.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0309092354.158e6d45@posting.google.com>

Lulu,

Some how I get this feeling this is secretly YOUR plan to 
re-acquire the United States... Sometime after national 
"Jones Town Day in May." ;^)

Cheers, 

   --Alan


Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062872349.11430.python-list at python.org>...
> Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote previously:
> |If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
> |if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?
> 
> I guess the answer is that this belief is absurdly far from the truth,
> so it probably cannot be "explained" in that sense.
> 
> The USA gun fatality rate is about 10.4 per 100k.  The UK has a rate
> considerably below 1 per 100k.  It's true, however, that Guy Ritchie
> made some violent films about brits, so maybe that's where the imagined
> rates come from.
> 
> For US rate, see:
> 
>     http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10.html
> 
> I nice comparison of various countries is at:
> 
>     http://www.dvc.org.uk/~johnny/dunblane/homemain.pdf
> 
> In particular, look at the chart on p.4.  Somewhat of an anomoly is that
> Switzerland, which has nearly half the gun ownership rate of USA has
> less than 1/4 the gun homicide rate (still, the Swiss with their lots
> more guns than UK, thereby have lots more murders than UK).  New Zealand
> and Australia are lower in both rates, but the proportions are even more
> skewed.
> 
> So while the mere correlation between gun ownership and gun violence is
> not perfect, all those countries with vastly lower gun ownership rates
> have vastly lower homicide rates.
> 
> Yours, Lulu...



From zefram at wolverine.lohacker.invalid  Mon Sep 29 19:23:02 2003
From: zefram at wolverine.lohacker.invalid (Emmanuele Bassi)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:23:02 GMT
Subject: centering a dialog in pygtk
References: <mailman.1064585256.21158.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbnhfls.9qn.zefram@wolverine.lohacker.net>

* sjsmith3 at comcast.net [2003-09-26 16:06]:

> Is there a way to center a dialog on a screen?

This should be done by the window manager.

Nevertheless, you could force the position of a window by using the
gtk.Window::set_position method:

	w = gtk.Window(gtk.WINDOW_TOPLEVEL)
	w.set_position(gtk.WIN_POS_CENTER)

Bye,
 Emmanuele.

-- 
Emmanuele Bassi            |       [ http://digilander.libero.it/ebassi/ ]
emmanuele.bassi(at)iol.it  |     Linux User #170621, http://counter.li.org
GnuPG Key fingerprint = 4DD0 C90D 4070 F071 5738  08BD 8ECC DB8F A432 0FF4



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 15:25:05 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:25:05 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)
Message-ID: <lsJ9b.13162$x21.6784@twister.southeast.rr.com>

How can I have tooltips for buttons of a toolbar
or for control items of a dialog?
Does such feature exist at all?

M-a-S





From starbuck_ms at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 23:59:45 2003
From: starbuck_ms at yahoo.com (Michael Sweeney)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 20:59:45 -0700
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a4fa626b.0309171959.2ccdf688@posting.google.com>

> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to do this:
> 
> ------------------------------
> a="192."
> b="168."
> c="1."
> r = range(256)
> for r in r:
> 	print a + b + c + r
> ------------------------------
> 

You could try this:

a="192"
b="168"
c="1"
for d in range(256):
    print "%s.%s.%s.%s"%(a,b,c,d)


192.168.1.0
192.168.1.1
192.168.1.2
192.168.1.3
...
192.168.1.255

- Mike



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Sep 22 18:26:17 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:26:17 -0700
Subject: string.rstrip
References: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6F7709.5EA37011@alcyone.com>

Hank wrote:

> I have this problem with string.rstrip
> 
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import string
> >>> mystr = "test.txt"
> >>> mystr = string.rstrip(mystr, ".txt")
> >>> print mystr
> tes
> 
> The last 't' was stripped.

What you mean is the result is 'tes', which is correct.

> Is this fixed or documented anywhere? it
> works for other cases, but this one seems to give me a weird result.

You're using .rstrip incorrectly.  The second argument to string.rstrip
is a list of characters, any one of which will be stripped if they are
at the end of the string.  So you're not saying, "remove .txt from the
end of the string," you're saying, "remove any of the characters ., t,
or x from the end of the string until you don't find anymore."  Since
you give it test.txt, that means it strips everything up to the s, since
they're all one of those characters.

It's documented in the library reference as well as the interpreter help
facility.

	http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-string.html
	help(''.rstrip)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Grab a club and join the chorus / Evolution is a state of mind
\__/  Oleta Adams



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 10:22:39 2003
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:22:39 +0100
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale re
	lated?))
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D014B294F@intrepid>

> From:	Peter Otten [SMTP:__peter__ at web.de]
> Everytime that someone posts a naive list.sort(compare), the DSU pattern
> is
> proposed to improve execution speed.
> 
> So maybe it's about time to change the sort() method to support a second
> argument
> 
> list.sort(compare=None, mapping=None)
> 
> that, if provided, would perform the DSU magic. Or was that already
> proposed
> and rejected?
 
Perhaps 'decorator' would be a better name than 'mapping'?

Cheers,
Simon Brunning,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
--LongSig





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From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 08:58:00 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 13:58:00 +0100
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com>

post400 at prontomail.com (post400) writes:

> there is another famous book 'Writing solid code' but does it apply to
> Python ? Or it's usable only by Microsoft C programmers ? The author
> seems to be an ex-Microsoft guy !

Never read it, but from the blurb about and extract from it in my copy
of Code Complete it certainly sounds pretty focused on C.

The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).


John



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Sep 14 19:12:25 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:12:25 -0500
Subject: Huh?!?!? What is it that I'm seeing here?
In-Reply-To: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net> (Don Bruder's
 message of "Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:45:16 GMT")
References: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <m265jvx8va.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Don" == Don Bruder <dakidd at sonic.net> writes:


    Don> if __name__ == '__main__': run(argv[1:])

You can safely ignore these in your conversion project.  

  if __name__ == '__main__'

This means if the text file "somefile.py" holding the module code is
run as the main file, as in 

  > python somefile.py
or 
  > ./somefile.py 
if the file has an executable bit set

  run(argv[1:])

This means "call the function run, passing command line arguments as
arguments".

Basically, the code at the bottom allows any python module to save the
same purpose as the C/C++ function 'main'.  Once you have converted
the python module, and implemented the function "run" in your C/C++
code, you would do something like

int main( int argc , char** argv ) {
  run(argv);
}

Cheers,
John Hunter




From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Mon Sep  8 01:35:34 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 01:35:34 -0400
Subject: exec code with timeout?
In-Reply-To: <Xns93EFE34728E26OKB@130.133.1.4>
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062996311.6727.python-list@python.org> <Xns93EFE34728E26OKB@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3F5C1526.2040205@teksavvy.com>

OKB (not okblacke) wrote:

>Graham Fawcett wrote:
>
>  
>
>>The RestrictedPython module in Zope may suit your needs; it was
>>designed for a
>>similar use scenario. Search the list, there was a discussion about
>>RestrictedPython not long ago.
>>    
>>
>
>    	Thanks.  I looked at the page that was referenced from here, but it 
>says RestrictedPython "doesn't implement resource limitations, like 
>preventing scripts from eating up all available RAM or simply never 
>terminating".  Preventing scripts from never terminating is exactly what 
>I am interested in.  (This isn't a halting problem kind of thing -- I 
>just want to unceremoniously kill exec-ed code that doesn't terminate in 
>a given amount of time.)  Also, it seems a bit heavyweight.  The page 
>implies that it uses a modified compiler, etc.; I don't know how that 
>would work with running interactively edited code.
>
>  
>

Hmm... well, again I'd suggest the PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc function. It
shouldn't be that hard to wrap... I'd try it myself, but haven't made it 
to 2.3 yet.  :(

Or, if you're in Unix-land, how about forking? Let the user code
run in the child fork, and let the other half take care of the timeout?
It's easy to kill processes.

-- G







From gherron at islandtraining.com  Wed Sep 10 18:03:34 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:03:34 -0700
Subject: Background image in toplevel
In-Reply-To: <Xns93F2869B93CCFhowardeegsoftwarecom@64.164.98.51>
References: <Xns93F2869B93CCFhowardeegsoftwarecom@64.164.98.51>
Message-ID: <200309101503.34119.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 01:13 pm, Howard Lightstone wrote:
> Is there any way to display a photoimage background in a toplevel/frame?
>
> I tried replacing my topmost widget with a canvas but the ripple effects on
> placement and other widgets got too high.
>
> Is there some way to specify a transparent background on a frame?  Then I
> could overlay a (tranparent) canvas window over the photoimage on the basic
> canvas but leave a frame widget (in the window) for position, placement,
> etc.

Python has a binding to *many* different GUI libraries.  I'd guess you
are asking about Tkinter, but you really ought to tell us that right
up front.  

On top of that, I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish or
what you mean by a "ripple effect".  If you can be much more specific
abour the GUI and problem, I (and probably others) will try to help.

Gary Herron







From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 20:21:03 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:21:03 +0100
Subject: Saving Numeric arrays to file?
Message-ID: <bl2ktf$8lq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

I am having problems saving arrays to file.  e.g.

>>> t1
array([30])
>>> t2
array([ 0,  0,  5,  5,  5, 10])
>>> t3
array([20,  5])
>>> t4
array([[ 0,  5, 10,  5,  0, 10],
       [ 0,  0,  0,  5,  0,  0]])
>>> f = file('c:\Data\IS_rounded.txt', 'w')
>>> f.write(t1.tostring() + '\n')
>>> f.write(t2.tostring() + '\n')
>>> f.write(t3.tostring() + '\n')
>>> f.write(t4.tostring() + '\n')
>>> f.close()
>>>
>>> f = file('c:\Data\IS_rounded.txt', 'r')
>>> Numeric.fromstring(f.readline().strip())
array([30])
>>> Numeric.fromstring(f.readline().strip())
array([0, 0, 5, 5, 5])                                        # missing
final element
>>> Numeric.fromstring(f.readline().strip())

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#181>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    Numeric.fromstring(f.readline().strip())
ValueError: string size must be a multiple of element size
>>>

Anyone any idea where I'm going wrong?  2.3 on Win2k.  Cheers.

Duncan





From http  Mon Sep 15 17:33:16 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 14:33:16 -0700
Subject: Ways to improve this clock algorithm?
References: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xoexl4u03.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

jacobsmail at gmx.net (Jacob H) writes:

> Hello all,
> 
> I'm close to being a novice programmer and I never was good at math.
> So I'm curious to know ways in which this following code can be made
> more efficient, more elegant. The code just calculates and displays
> elapsed wall clock seconds since initialization.
> 
> class ExampleTimer:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.start = time.clock()
> 
>     def run(self):
>         while 1:
>             now = time.clock()
>             allseconds = int(now) = int(self.start)

I think you mean

              allseconds = int(now) - int(self.start)

Now you can say
            
              hours = allseconds // 3600
              minutes = (allseconds // 60) % 60
              seconds = allseconds % 60

instead of counting up to allseconds.  You could also use the divmod
function for a fancier way to do the same thing, but the above is
straightforward enough.



From roy at panix.com  Thu Sep  4 00:06:00 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:06:00 -0400
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <roy-0F3EF6.00055904092003@reader2.panix.com>

Jules Dubois <bogus at invalid.tld> wrote:
> My "Software Engineering" class votes again tomorrow on the language we use
> for our group project.  Tuesday's vote was Java (8 votes), Python (5), C++
> (3), and Smalltalk (1); Thursday's vote will be between Java and Python.  I
> get the opportunity to learn one or the other in a week.

How many votes does a language need to get to be elected Governor of 
California?



From jbperez808 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 12:22:02 2003
From: jbperez808 at yahoo.com (Jonathan P.)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 09:22:02 -0700
Subject: Pythonic way of web-programming
References: <mailman.1063982609.23755.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f57664b9.0309220822.66895246@posting.google.com>

Giorgi said:

> Recently I have started to make a Georgian language based 
> web-site for Python. It was a natural feeling not to use, say, 
> php or perl for web-content management. I have gone through 
> different approaches available in Python; namely:

For those who like working with HTML-embedded scripting languages 
(ala PHP), Spyce (spyce.sf.net) gets my thumbs up vote - definitely
Pythonic.



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Sep 19 20:53:06 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 00:53:06 GMT
Subject: Passing data out of a Sax parser
References: <fe5nmv0mno1ib23ifekntp3v3u2er5bstt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <SxNab.10403$BS5.7382@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Tim Rowe:
> b. Add a parameter to the handler's __init__ method, that takes some
> sort of mutable object, and put the answer into that object.

Either that or have startDocument create the mutable object, as

class MyHandler(xml.sax.handlers.ContentHandler):
  def startDocument(self):
    self.count = 0
  def startElement(self, name, attrs):
    if name == "spam":
        self.count += 1

parser = xml.sax.make_parser()
h = MyHandler()
parser.setContentHandler(h)
h.parse(input)
print h.count

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From d2003xx at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 21 20:15:37 2003
From: d2003xx at hotmail.com (d2003xx)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 17:15:37 -0700
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3dd5593c.0309211615.747ba123@posting.google.com>

rh4170056 at juno.com (rhmd) wrote in message news:<616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d at posting.google.com>...
> Just found Python and I love it.  What an elegant language!
>    I would like to use it for various applications, but the
> mathematical calculations are way too slow (a million sines 8 seconds
> in Python vs. 2 seconds in Excel VBA), so was thinking of learning
> enough C++ to do the number crunching in C++ and integrating the C++
> routines with Python.  My question:
>    My question:
>    Which compiler works best with Python?
> I use Windows XP and 98.  Have very little experience with C++.  Am
> doing statistical and other simulations that require billions of
> calculations (taking 1 to 2 hours in Excel VBA).  GCC is free, MS
> C++.Net is affordable

The standard C/C++ compiler (no optimization) is included in .Net
framework SDK, which is available for free in M$'s web-site.

> at <$100 but supposedly has problems until the
> next version (and I could only use it on my XP machine), older
> versions of MS C++ are no longer for sale.  What's the most robust
> solution?  I would also like to make .dll files that I can plug into
> MS Excel.
>    Sorry for the vagueness of this question, but I'm sure many of you
> have experience with this and any information, opinions, and even
> prejudices about the various compilers are welcome.

I guess gcc is the only choice.. If you don't mind that it takes
forever to compile C++ source code, until version 3.4 is released (it
will supports pre-compiled header).



From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Thu Sep 11 16:02:32 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:02:32 +0200
Subject: ftplib question: how to upload files?
References: <mailman.1063305377.21943.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r3l1mv0pc6cf9idm1qrs95b9457krn4j25@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:35:32 -0400 (EDT), python at sarcastic-horse.com
wrote:


>What do I do to send files?

I use this:

f=file(fileName,'rb')
conn.storbinary('STOR '+os.path.basename(fileName),f)

-PU




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Sep 24 05:06:23 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:23 +0200
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064393134.9084.python-list@python.org>
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <oA6cb.1241$RW4.485@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <mailman.1064393134.9084.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f715e81$0$97260$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> the DOM API is designed for consultants, not for humans or
> computers.

:-D QOTW ?

regards Max M




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Sep 28 21:13:48 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:13:48 -0500
Subject: Recursion
In-Reply-To: <xjLdb.565$Vb3.450032@news1.news.adelphia.net>
References: <xjLdb.565$Vb3.450032@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <20030929011348.GB21627@unpythonic.net>

> "Explanation From the Book Begins Here"++++++++++++++++++
> 
> >def factorial(n):
> >    if n == 0:
> >        return 1
> >    else:
> >        recurse = factorial(n-1)
> >        result = n * recurse
> >        return result
> >
> >    The flow of execution is as follows.
> >    If we call "factorial" with the value 3:
> >
> >    Since 3 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate the
> >    factorial of n-1...
> >        Since 2 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate
> >        the factorial of n-1...
> >            Since 1 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate
> >            the factorial of n-1...
> >                Since 0 is 0, we take the first branch and return 1
> >                without making any more recusive calls.
> >            The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which is 1,
> >            and the result is returned.
> >        The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which is 2, and the
> >        result is returned.
> >    The return value (2) is multiplied by n, which is 3, and the
> >    result, 6, becomes the return value of the function that started
> >    the whole process.

> "Example Ends Here"++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 

On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:48:29AM +0000, Jakle wrote:
> I thought I understood what was going on untill "Since 0 is 0...", but after
> that I get lost. Where are the variables being stored.

Each separate invocation of 'factorial' has an associated value for a
variable named 'n'.  So on the 'Since 0 is 0' step, there are 4
invocations of 'factorial', one with n==0, one with n==1, etc.  This is
what 3.10 "Variables and parameters are local" intends to explain:

| When you create a local variable inside a function, it only exists
| inside the function, and you cannot use it outside. For example:
| 
| def catTwice(part1, part2):
|   cat = part1 + part2
|   printTwice(cat)
| 
| This function takes two arguments, concatenates them, and then prints
| the result twice. We can call the function with two strings:
| 
| >>> chant1 = "Pie Jesu domine, "
| >>> chant2 = "Dona eis requiem."
| >>> catTwice(chant1, chant2)
| Pie Jesu domine, Dona eis requiem. Pie Jesu domine, Dona eis requiem.
| 
| When catTwice terminates, the variable cat is destroyed. If we try to
| print it, we get an error:
| 
| >>> print cat
| NameError: cat
| 
| Parameters are also local. For example, outside the function printTwice,
| there is no such thing as bruce. If you try to use it, Python will
| complain. 

So not only do catTwice and printTwice have different local names, each
invocation of catTwice (or factorial) has its own values for local
names.

Jeff




From _remove_jones57 at swbell.net  Thu Sep 18 03:39:27 2003
From: _remove_jones57 at swbell.net (sj)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:39:27 GMT
Subject: Can Python Module Locate Itself?
References: <VYR9b.1109$c17.866@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Pidab.985$%X4.790@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks all for the many useful suggestions.  

One of the reasons I placed the docs in comments is that I have a modified 
version of head which outputs the initial comment block of a file. Its 
smart enough to recognize c++, java, python and lisp commenting styles. On 
reflection I'm not sure this approach offers any advantage over the elegant 
and standard python doc string.  Also it would be easy to to update the 
modified head program to look for any initial doc strings. 



From roberto at dealmeida.net  Tue Sep  2 13:09:25 2003
From: roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De Almeida)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 10:09:25 -0700
Subject: Which is the better way to parse this file?
References: <10c662fe.0309020436.559d513d@posting.google.com> <au2dnSnl__hyPMmiU-KYgw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <10c662fe.0309020909.57817c13@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<au2dnSnl__hyPMmiU-KYgw at comcast.com>...
> I suspect that what you actually want to do is parse structures 'like'
> the above, as defined be a grammar not shown ;-)

Yes, you're right. :)

The grammar is not complex, but I'm still struggling to process the
result tree.

> You did not specify whether you will get such files from an
> uncontrolable external source or whether you control the input format.
> If the later, there is no obvious reason for separate database,
> sequence, and structure productions since all three result in
> dictionaries with no functional difference.

This is a Dataset Descriptor for the Data Access Protocol
(http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/packages/dods/design/dap-rfc-html/), an
API to access remote datasets. DAP servers describe their datasets
using this grammar, and I'm developing a module to access DAP servers.

> > I want to obtain a dictionary like this:
> >
> > >>> pprint.pprint(data)
> > {'casts': {'experimenter': None,
> >            'location': {'latitude': None, 'longitude': None},
> >            'time': None,
> >            'xbt': {'depth': None, 'temperature': None}},
> >  'catalog_number': None}
> > The values ('None') will be filled later.
> 
> Using None as placeholders either tosses the type information or
> requires that it be recorded elsewhere.  Use the int and float type
> objects instead.  Note that standard Python cannot differentiate
> between float and float64.

Ok. One of the strong points of DAP is that data is retrieved only for
your region/period of interest. I created a class and redefined
__getitem__ so that data is only retrieved from the server when the
object is sliced.

>>> data = file("http://dods.gso.uri.edu/cgi-bin/nph-nc/data/fnoc1.nc")
>>> print data.variables['lat'].shape
(17,)
>>> print data.variables['lat'][1:4]   # only this subset is retrieved
[ 47.5  45.   42.5  40. ]

> I know nothing of SimpleParse (and therefore, of what would be
> different).  If the grammar is as simple as I infer from the sample -- 
> dataset and sequences containing sequences, structures, and types -- I
> would reread about recursive-descent parsing and maybe try that.  The
> type_entry function would return a (name, typeobject) pair and the
> structure, sequence, and database functions a (name, dict) pair.

Yes, it's very simple. As you see, even a structure is identical to a
sequence. The declarations are basically "types" or declarations
containing "types". Do you think it can be done without 3rd party
modules?

> But as hinted above, I would think about simplifying the grammar
> before worryinng about parsing.  If you only have sequences of
> sequences and type entries, parsing is trivial.

I'll take a look in that. Thanks very much for the insights.

Regards,

Roberto



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 09:11:16 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 14:11:16 +0100
Subject: build python using mingw
References: <bka775$3djvv$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de> <bkc3p9$b8c$1@ls219.htnet.hr>
Message-ID: <87d6dy6y2z.fsf@pobox.com>

"Marijan Tadin" <mtadin66 at yahoo.com> writes:
> "Uwe Schmitt" <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> wrote in message
[...]
> > Did anyone suceed in building Python + mingw ?
[...]
> AFAIK no, but some people are trying to do so.
> Try Google with:
> 
> build mingw group:comp.lang.python.*

But don't let that put you off doing it yourself: IIRC, it's been on
Gerhard's list for a long while, but he hasn't had sufficient 'round
tuits' to finish it (assuming I recall correctly that it *was* Gerhard
Haring).


John



From qual at tiscali.de  Fri Sep 12 09:09:16 2003
From: qual at tiscali.de (Uwe Hoffmann)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:09:16 +0200
Subject: looking for MOP documentation
In-Reply-To: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>
Message-ID: <bjsg2v$214s$1@ulysses.news.tiscali.de>

kasper graversen wrote:
> hello there.
> 
> I've been searching the web (including the www.python.org :) but in vain 
> of finding recent documentation for the python MOP. I see some 
> information on python 1.5---is this the best and still valid information 
> today?
> 
> sincerely
> \kasper
> 

http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#metaclasses
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pymeta2




From zsh-users-help at sunsite.dk  Tue Sep  2 11:45:09 2003
From: zsh-users-help at sunsite.dk (zsh-users-help at sunsite.dk)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 15:45:09 -0000
Subject: ezmlm response
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From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Wed Sep 24 06:38:11 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 03:38:11 -0700
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <f4b2nv8vs81v6egonckq7935jmh6a8gku6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0309240238.33c0a9@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in message news:<f4b2nv8vs81v6egonckq7935jmh6a8gku6 at 4ax.com>...
> >* Should enumerate() be included?  It would only provide reverse iteration
> >  whenever the underlying sequence supported it.
> 
> Why not...
> 
>   for i, j in enumerate (listname.iter_backwards ()) :
> 
> in other words, as enumerate can handle the already-reversed
> sequence/iteration, I don't see the point.

That's not the same:

>>> list(enumerate([10,11,12]))
[(0, 10), (1, 11), (2, 12)]
>>> list(enumerate([10,11,12].riter()))
[(0, 12), (1, 11), (2, 10)]
>>> list(enumerate([10,11,12]).riter())
[(2, 12), (1, 11), (0, 10)]

Indices would also be reversed.



From john at rygannon.com  Mon Sep 15 13:33:02 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:33:02 GMT
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
Message-ID: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi
I would like to announce, for real this time, the release of BlackAdder
V1.0.0. We have just finished our weekly conference during which I was give
specific instructions by Shawn Gordon to make this announcement

I have uploaded the demos to http://www.rygannon.com and to
http://www.totalrekall.co.uk

For all those who have already bought the beta release if you visit your
download basket at http://www.thekompany.com you will find your copy of BA
V1.0.0 ready and waiting
For those who would like to buy a copy of BA V1.0.0 you too can visit
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder

What is Blackadder?
-----------------------------

BlackAdder is an application development environment that allows
professional and hobbyist programmers alike to produce complex applications
for the Windows and Linux platforms.

BlackAdder brings together the Python programming language, the Ruby
development language (Ruby is temporarily removed until the Qt bindings are
updated to Qt3, currently in progress), the Qt graphical user interface
(GUI) toolkit, ODBC database connectivity and an Integrated Development
Environment (IDE) that includes an editor, a GUI designer, a debugger and an
interactive Python interpreter. (A Ruby interpreter, debugger and ODBC
support for Ruby are not yet available.) BlackAdder gives the programmer, in
a single package, all they need to develop sophisticated applications.


-- 
Best Regards
John



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Mon Sep  8 17:46:47 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 21:46:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: exec code with timeout?
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <bjitc6$6s1$1@fred.mathworks.com>

"OKB (not okblacke)" <BrenBarn at aol.com> wrote:
>     	I am fiddling around with a Python-based MUD which allows users to 
> code MUD objects in Python.  This code is executed from within the 
> server code with "exec".  However, sometimes errors in user code can 
> result in infinite loops, which cause the MUD to hang.  I am wondering 
> if there is a way to put a timeout on the exec, so that it returns 
> control to the main program if the user code doesn't return within a 
> certain amount of time.

We've done exactly this for our own MUD project :)

The way we got around the infinite loop problem was to have the main
Python thread be the one that runs all unknown MUD-code.  You can use
signals (on unix) to raise an exception in the main thread.  I don't
remember offhand what function we used--maybe os.kill?



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Sep  8 13:03:39 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:03:39 -0700
Subject: CSV Module questions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062980233.23100.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062980233.23100.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f5cb668$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

John D. wrote:
> I'm trying to understand how to use the "csv" module....
> Example (from the docs):
> # Just some stupid dictionary with key same as value.
> someiterable = {'john d': 'john d', 'fred': 'fred'}
> 
> # make the writer.
> writer = csv.writer(file("some.csv", "w"))
> for row in someiterable:
   for row in someiterable.iteritems():
>     writer.writerow(row)

I suspect the problem is that you misunderstand dictionary iteration.
Examine and understand:
	
     for row in someiterable:
         print repr(row)

     for row in someiterable.iteritems():
         print repr(row)


By the way, just use .items(), not .iteritems() if you have an older 
python (before 2.2, I believe).

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From dakidd at sonic.net  Thu Sep 25 17:21:06 2003
From: dakidd at sonic.net (Don Bruder)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:21:06 GMT
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
References: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net> <bkvklh$e2i$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <6%Icb.24427$dk4.777026@typhoon.sonic.net>

In article <bkvklh$e2i$02$1 at news.t-online.com>,
 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Don Bruder wrote:
> 
> > A week or two ago, I asked here about porting Python to C. Got some good
> > answers (Note 1) but now I've got another question. Actually, more a
> > request for clarification of a topic that both the Python tutorial and
> > docs leave a touch murky to my understanding.
> > 
> > Dictionaries/"dict" types...
> 
> As you seem to feel at home with C, you could have a look into
> Objects/dictobject.c and Include/dictobject.h of the source distribution.

I may just go poking around there for more details. 
Someone (via email) suggests that dicts are "supposed to be" (my 
synopsis, not his words) a bit "murky", because all that's supposed to 
be relevant is stuffing things into them, and pulling things out. That's 
fine, completely admirable, and fully acceptable. *IF* You're working 
directly in Python. I'm not. I'm working in a combination of C and C++, 
attempting to duplicate the functionality of a program originally 
written in Python. As such, the details *MUST* get clear if I'm to 
create equivalent functionality. If only because I need to read data 
that was written (presumably...) by a Python program. Hence, it becomes 
neccesary to get down "in the muck" and actually know what's going on 
behind the nice, tidy "dict.whosit.get()" (or whatever other operators 
might be involved) interface that Python provides.
> 
> > Which part of "I don't care how good, bad, or indifferent Python is
> > compared to C/C++, or any other language. I want this Python code to be
> > written in C/C++, end of discussion." wasn't clear enough for those of
> 
> Smart people use efficient tools and build on existing libraries. 

There's a statement that needed saying.... Not...


> If you are
> serious about the C++ part of your subject line, the Standard library aka
> STL has a map template that resembles Python's dict and might enhance both
> development and execution speed.

I'm *REASONABLY* serious. This port started life as a "Do you really 
know as much about C++ as you think you do? Prove it! Take this Python 
program and make it C++!" sort of "mid-term" test in my self-taught C++ 
course. It's rapidly degenerating (due to some technicalities of C++ 
that I've never before encountered, and therefore had no expectation of 
trouble from) into "Let's just get the damn thing working in straight C, 
then worry about trying to turn it into C++ later."

> 
> Off topic (or not):
> A single person can start a discussion but not limit it, I think that's a
> feature of newsgroups rather than an annoyance.

Perhaps, and perhaps not. Guess it depends on your perspective. Having a 
stream of insult and invective dumped into your mailbox because you've 
made it plain that you don't consider somebody's "pet" language the 
be-all and end-all of computer programming is hardly what I'd call a 
"feature"...

Be that as it may, fortunately I have a thick enough hide to 
figuratively "flip off" the jerk that was involved, and go on with life 
knowing full well that in at least one respect, I'm so far superior to 
him that words can't describe the gulf between us. Doesn't mean I'm not 
going to mention that I think he's a hopeless putz, but I'm sure not 
going to let it get me down to the point of giving up.

-- 
Don Bruder -  dakidd at sonic.net <--- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See <http://www.spamassassin.org> for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html>



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Wed Sep 17 15:40:06 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:40:06 +0100
Subject: Money data type
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F8D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F8D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <200309172039.41526.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Wednesday 17 Sep 2003 7:28 pm, Batista, Facundo wrote:
> Can't find it.
>
> I mean something like:
> >> m1 = Money(decimal=2)
> >> m2 = Money(decimal=2)
> >> m1.value = 3.20
> >> m2.value = 2.15
> >> print m1 + m2
>
> 5.35
>
> 5.35! Not 5.3500000000000001 neither 5.34999999999999999999.
>
> I think this is not a rare thing, but I can't find it in the standar
> library neither the package index.
>
> Thanks!
>
> .	Facundo

Facundo,

When you just print a raw float, it will be printed to its most accurate 
decimal representation.  If you need /aritrary precision/ you are probably 
best off using long-integers, multiplying your result, say by 100 (e.g. for 
two decimal place precision) and then dividing down again when you need to 
print.

Actually, though, I think what you need is:

-----8<-----
>>> m1=3.2
>>> m2=2.15
>>> print "%4.2f" % (m1+m2)
5.35
>>> print m1+m2
5.35
>>> # oops... lets try someting a little more difficult
>>> m3=100.0/3
>>> m3
33.333333333333336
>>> print "%4.2f" % m3
33.33
>>> m3
33.333333333333336
>>> print "%4.2f" % (m3+m2)
35.48
>>> m3+m2
35.483333333333334
>>> 
-----8<-----

hth,
-andyj




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 25 16:52:53 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:52:53 +0200
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
References: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <bkvklh$e2i$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Don Bruder wrote:

> A week or two ago, I asked here about porting Python to C. Got some good
> answers (Note 1) but now I've got another question. Actually, more a
> request for clarification of a topic that both the Python tutorial and
> docs leave a touch murky to my understanding.
> 
> Dictionaries/"dict" types...

As you seem to feel at home with C, you could have a look into
Objects/dictobject.c and Include/dictobject.h of the source distribution.

> Which part of "I don't care how good, bad, or indifferent Python is
> compared to C/C++, or any other language. I want this Python code to be
> written in C/C++, end of discussion." wasn't clear enough for those of

Smart people use efficient tools and build on existing libraries. If you are
serious about the C++ part of your subject line, the Standard library aka
STL has a map template that resembles Python's dict and might enhance both
development and execution speed.

Off topic (or not):
A single person can start a discussion but not limit it, I think that's a
feature of newsgroups rather than an annoyance.


Peter




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 30 16:07:26 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:07:26 +0200
Subject: printing to files in python
References: <mailman.1064946050.8907.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blcnt0$mv$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Matthew Wilson wrote:

> Hi-
> 
> I want to print stuff like:
> 
>>>> "d1: %s, probability: %0.2f" % (d1, prob)
> 
> to a file, but when I do:
> 
>>>> str = "d1: %s, probability: %0.2f" % (d1, prob)
>>>> outfile = open("out.txt", "w")
>>>> outfile.write(str)
> 
> I get errors.  What am I missing?

Apart from using str as a variable name, which is bad style, there is
nothing wrong with the code you have posted.
It would help, if you would also post the values of d1 and prob and cut and
paste the actual traceback.
Using the insufficient information you provide, prob could be an
incompatible type, e. g. a string

>>> "%f" % "123.4"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: float argument required

or you are ot allowed to write into the specified file:

>>> file("out.txt", "w")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'out.txt'
>>>

Or something completely different...

Peter



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep 23 14:31:03 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:31:03 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
Message-ID: <1064341863.3f709167864a8@mcherm.com>

Stephen Horne writes:
> True, it is mostly just an alternative notation for range or xrange.
> But the integer for loops thing is something that never seems to go
> away. PEP284 itself quotes four previous PEPs on broadly the same
> issue.

I am of the opinion that the introduction of enumerate() (in 2.3) will
go a long ways toward reducing the desire for better integer loop
syntax. I'm sure it will never go away completely, but if the demand
seems to die down after a year or so, then I'd guess it was due to
enumerate().

-- Michael Chermside





From hpk at trillke.net  Sun Sep  7 19:44:02 2003
From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 01:44:02 +0200
Subject: ANN: PyPy "Berlin" sprint (29th Sep - 4th Oct 2003)
Message-ID: <20030908014402.F22698@prim.han.de>

hello python developers, 

the fourth PyPy coding sprint will take place in Berlin (Germany) from

    (morning of) 29th of September to (evening of) 4th of October 2003. 

All Python developers are welcome to join the sprint. 
See below for participation details. 


What is PyPy?
-------------

PyPy is a remimplementation of Python in the Python language itself. 
Simplicity and flexibilty are the foremost goals.  With PyPy we want it
to be easy to extend the language or generate a more minimal language 
implementation.

One key technique to making this feasible is to specialize our abstract/general 
PyPy-Python implementation into native code (e.g. C-code).  Eventually the
concepts of PSYCO and Stackless are to be integrated into PyPy. 

There is, of course, much more to it so feel free to consult some
documents especially our Oscon-2003 paper on this page:

    http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?doc

We know that many areas and issues are still somewhat vague
although PyPy can already run many python programs [*]. Fortunately, Python 
is pretty tolerant about expressing ideas in vague ways.  After all, 
hacking at PyPy aims (and already proved!) to preserve the fun of 
hacking in Python. 


History, status and Berlin goals
--------------------------------

The project started in Jan/Feb 2003 with an initiative from Christian 
Tismer, Holger Krekel and Armin Rigo. During the course many more
developers joined our sprints and there are now between 5 and 15 people
involved in developing PyPy.  

The three sprints resulted in a fully working interpreter, some development 
infrastructure and the "standard object space" which is an abstraction for 
operations on standard (CPython) objects. 

There is no public release yet, you more or less have to install
a subversion-client and checkout the trunk.  Here is our 'howtosvn' 
which contains up-to-date clients for multiple platforms along
with some instructions how to get started:

    http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?doc/devel/howtosvn.html

Main goals for the Berlin sprint are 

- integration/enhancement of a Python parser and the compiler package 

- generating native code from our Python interpreter/types implementations

- enhancing/correcting/completing what we have (various tasks)


How to participate in Berlin (29th of Sept. to 4th of October)
--------------------------------------------------------------

If you are interested to participate please subscribe at our 
sprint organization list 

    http://codespeak.net/mailman/pypy-sprint

and please list yourself at 

    http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/SprintAttendants

so that we can organize accomodation and arrange details. Costs
should be pretty low (except from travelling costs, of course).
Currently nine people are scheduled to come.  

Btw, the sprint starts early on the 29th of september so it's best to
arrive on sunday, 28th. Also we probably want to have one day
off during the sprint week to do some sight (or cafe+pub) seeing. 
Actually it's much better to participate the whole week to better
get into it. 

cheers,

    holger 
    

[*] and currently only 20-40 thousand times slower than CPython! which clearly 
    shows that we are successfully follow the "premature optimization is the root 
    of all evil" maxime. 




From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Wed Sep 24 19:33:56 2003
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:33:56 -0700
Subject: Announcement: ActiveState acquired by Sophos
In-Reply-To: <lIydnRkR4Ilwm--iU-KYgw@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.1064426135.17091.python-list@python.org> <lIydnRkR4Ilwm--iU-KYgw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3F7229E4.5030902@ActiveState.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> Do you have an ETA for Active Python 2.3?

A few weeks for ActivePython 2.3.1 -- we have a few other releases to
worry about, but now that Komodo 2.5 is out the door, it's way up there
on the priority queue.

Cheers,

--david ascher







From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Tue Sep 30 03:37:49 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:37:49 +0400
Subject: meta classes
In-Reply-To: <oprwajrpt3g9zfwx@news.tiscali.dk>
References: <oprwajrpt3g9zfwx@news.tiscali.dk>
Message-ID: <blbbsc$2vvu$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Carlo v. Dango wrote:
> hello there
> 
> I'd like to take control over the method dispatching of every subclass 
> of a given python class. Currently I've redefined __getattribute__() so 
> i can find the right instance/method to dispatch to. This works fine, 
> albeit it may seem a bit hackish. Further I want to control the actual 
> dispatching, so that I can execute methods before, after or instead of 
> the actual method. I would prefer to do this with the least modification 
> of the source due to debug'ing issues. My best idea so far is to rename 
> every method who subclass the magic class X and then create new methods 
> in place of the renamed ones, which looks up in a list to execute 
> "before-methods", then execute the renamed method etc..
> 
> Only I don't know how to do this. I've found some MOP code which was 
> designed for python old-style objects... but this is not what I want. 
> Can anyone kindly give me some pointers for help or some actual code?
> 
> many thanks in advance..
> 
> 
> ---
> 

Really simple example:

class Hooker(object):
     class __metaclass__(type):
         def __new__(cls, name, bases, members):
             def make_wrapper(f):
                 def wrapper(self):
                     print "before"
                     f(self)
                     print "after"
                 return wrapper

             new_members = {}
             for n, f in members.iteritems():
                 if not n.startswith('__'):
                     new_members[n] = make_wrapper(f)
                 else:
                     new_members[n] = f

             return type.__new__(cls, name, bases, new_members)

class Child(Hooker):
     def foo(self):
         print "Child.foo"

c = Child()

c.foo()


hth,
anton.




From syver at inout.no  Mon Sep 22 05:51:46 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 11:51:46 +0200
Subject: thread question
References: <bkmdp9$gvr$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <uwuc12lsd.fsf@inout.no>

Rolf Wester <wester at ilt.fraunhofer.de> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> I have an application that starts a second thread, that receives
> messages via a socket-server and puts that messages into a queue. The
> main thread is polling that queue for new messages. My problem is that
> the main thread takes to much of the time polling the empty queue
> while the socket-server thread doesn't get enough time for receiving
> the messages. Is it possible to force the main threat to sleep for a
> certain
> amount of time or give the socket-server thread a higher priority?
> Thanks in advance.

The good answer to your question:
Use a Queue.Queue instance as your queue. The queue instance has
methods that block if the queue is empty.

The direct answer to your question:
import time
time.sleep(5) # sleeps 5 seconds




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Sep 19 08:34:16 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:34:16 +0200
Subject: utf-8 encoding issue
References: <petitmermet-D88C6A.13411819092003@pfaff2-rz-fast.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <bket4d$ngn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Marc Petitmermet wrote:

> In a web form, the user enters "?ttinger" and wants to search with this
> search string. My idea is now to convert the search string (which also
> could be e.g. some cyrillic text) into unicode and then to utf-8:
>
>    unicode(search_string).encode('utf-8')
>
> This gives me the utf-8 encoded version of the string but not yet in the
> correct representation. How can I get the correct one (is this the hex
> version? I don't know the correct terminology.)?
>
> In short: how do I e.g. convert a sting containing a "?" into a string
> containing a "%&#xd6;"?

that's not UTF-8, that's HTML/XML-style charrefs.

if mysql translates the charref's to unicode characters, you can simply
use:

    s = u.encode("ascii", "xmlcharrefreplace")

where "u" is a unicode string.

if you've stored charrefs as is in the database, you're in for some
serious trouble. assuming that all charrefs are hexadecimal charrefs,
you can use something like:

    def fixup(m): return "&#" + hex(int(m.group(1)))[1:]
    s = re.sub("&#(\d+)", fixup, u.encode("ascii", "xmlcharrefreplace"))

to map all non-ASCII characters to charrefs, and then translate all
charrefs to hexadecimal charrefs.

decoding the charrefs *before* you add the strings to the database
is a better idea, though.

</F>







From sylphaleya at hta.fhz.ch  Tue Sep  9 10:38:17 2003
From: sylphaleya at hta.fhz.ch (Manuel Huesser)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:38:17 +0200
Subject: minidom sample code (OT)
References: <59e5b87.0309081251.32b31261@posting.google.com>
	<bjj39i$f6p$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030909163817.50abac58.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch>

>>> from xml.dom.minidom import getDOMImplementation

It needs much more time to import this package than
any other one. As much that it's perceptible compared
to other packages.

Because my main debugger is print i don't like if an
application needs much more time. Is there a way around?

Manuel



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 15 18:10:02 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 23:10:02 +0100
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com> <87znh89ufv.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnbm8l54.o3i.grey@dmiyu.org> <878yoqoudj.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnbmc97u.vpg.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <87vfrtd7ph.fsf@pobox.com>

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:

> On 2003-09-15, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> > Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:
> >>     I run several GTK apps that don't touch Gnome:
> >> Sylpheed-Claws
> >> Pan
> >> XChat
>  
> >>     GTK != GNOME.  
> > [...]
> 
> > Yep: that's exactly what I don't understand!  *Why* did you do that?
> 
>     What, run GTK apps that don't touch Gnome?  Simple reason: Gnome
> sucks.  I run KDE.  I wouldn't want to load the full gamut of gnome libs
> but the GTK libs are ok.  

Sorry, misread that as saying you *wrote*, not *run*.


John



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep 19 16:26:42 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:26:42 -0400
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
References: <mailman.1063995987.26144.python-list@python.org> <vmmn2u51gliad1@news.supernews.com> <3F6B6128.49680D2@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <vmmpkqp2f5oec2@news.supernews.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3F6B6128.49680D2 at alcyone.com...
> John Roth wrote:
>
> > A new mass mailer worm hit the net at about 9:00 PM EST last night
> > (at least, that's when I started getting the spam from it.) It seems
> > to be
> > using a really old hole in Windows, meaning that if you've kept up to
> > date
> > with your patches, you should be safe from infection.
>
> Being completely safe from infection doesn't mean that you won't get
> hammered by the spam the worms generate.  All you need to be is in the
> address book of someone whose machine was compromised.  (My machines
> don't run Windows, so they certainly haven't bee compromised by a
> Windows worm, but I'm seeing tremendous spam loads nevertheless.)

I did say *infection*.

John Roth
>
> -- 
>    Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ You and I / We've seen it all / Chasing our hearts' desire
> \__/  The Russian and Florence, _Chess_





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Sep 17 16:47:19 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 16:47:19 -0400
Subject: New style classes
References: <3f68bf1b$0$42051$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3F68C5C6.EEE50394@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bkah8n$oc2$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F68C5C6.EEE50394 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Grant Edwards wrote:
>> 
>> Is it just me, or does the "new style american girlfriend" line
>> from "Sixteen Candles" pop into anybody else's head when the
>> see the phrase "new style classes" mentioned on a subject line?
>> 
>> Ah. Just me?
>> I was afraid of that.
>
>I treat the new style ones as objects.  I like them better that way,
>'cause the old ones weren't my type.

I wish they all could be new-style objects...
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From posman at eval.ca  Mon Sep 15 12:03:46 2003
From: posman at eval.ca (Paul Osman)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:03:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: unique unions of several dict keys
In-Reply-To: <59256.199.169.240.132.1063641087.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
References: <59256.199.169.240.132.1063641087.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309151201090.32259@kernighan.eval.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote:

> Hi-
>
>
> I have several different dictionaries.  I want to make a unique list of
> all the keys in all the dictionaries.  What would be the best way of doing
> that?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>

well, I'm sure there's a number of ways, here's one:

def unique(keys):
    unique = []
    for i in keys:
        if i not in unique: unique.append(i)
    return unique

a = {"name" : "paul", "age" : 22}
b = {"name" : "paul", "location" : "toronto"}

list = unique(a.keys() + b.keys())
print list

I'm sure there's a better way, but you get the idea. play around with it.

Cheers,

-- 
Paul Osman
posman at eval.ca
http://perl.eval.ca

"Idealists...foolish enough to throw caution
  to the winds...have advanced mankind and have
  enriched the world."
         - Emma Goldman




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Sep 10 11:41:30 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 11:41:30 -0400
Subject: FAQs in spanish
References: <mailman.1063033454.25394.python-list@python.org> <bjmie1$67h$1@nsnmpen2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>
Message-ID: <bjngna$rdo$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <bjmie1$67h$1 at nsnmpen2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Miguel_Hern=E1ndez_Martos?=
  <miguel.hernandez at icr-sa.com> wrote:
>Batista, Facundo wrote:
>> 
>> I searched for FAQs in spanish, and I didn?t found them.
>
>I think this is what you are looking for:
>http://pyspanishdoc.sourceforge.net/

That doesn't appear to include the FAQs, particularly not the recently
rewritten FAQs.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Fri Sep 12 13:54:09 2003
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 10:54:09 -0700
Subject: dumb q: repeated inheritance in python?
References: <a8623416.0309111319.14334945@posting.google.com> <Xns93F467BCD2CA5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0309120954.7a7d3e01@posting.google.com>

Thanks Duncan, that's exactly what I needed!  I'm not very familiar
with subclassing properties, I guess I'll play around with it and see
if I can figure it out.  But thanks again, it's great code!

			------ Corey


Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message news:<Xns93F467BCD2CA5duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>...
> corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin) wrote in 
> news:a8623416.0309111319.14334945 at posting.google.com:
> 
> >  What I'd really like to do is inherit this same object
> > twice, but the second time rename the objects so that I get 'name2'
> > instead of 'name'.  (And somehow rename the functions, and so on.)
> 
> I'm not sure if I exactly understood what you want, but does this help?
> I think you are asking for two properties that access differently named 
> attributes but perform the same type checking in each case. 
> 
> That sounds to me like you want a specialised property which can be done by 
> subclassing it:
> 
> ---- begin test.py ----
> class Name(property):
>     def __init__(cls, attrname):
>         
>         def setnm(self, nm):
>             if isinstance(nm, str):
>                 setattr(self, attrname, nm)
>             else:
>                 raise TypeError("Name passed to %s isn't a string" % 
> self.__class__.__name__)
> 
>         def getnm(self):
>             return getattr(self, attrname)
> 
>         property.__init__(cls, getnm, setnm)
> 
> 
> class TwoNamed(object):
>     def __init__(self, iname='', jname=''):
>         self.iname, self.jname = iname, jname
> 
>     name = Name('iname')
>     name2 = Name('jname')
> 
> x = TwoNamed('ivalue', 'jvalue')
> print "name, name2 =",x.name, x.name2
> 
> x.name = 'www'
> x.name2 = 'xxx'
> 
> print "name, name2 =",x.name, x.name2
> print "iname, jname =",x.iname, x.jname
> 
> x.name = 42 # Blows up
> print x.name # Never reached.
> ----- end of test.py ----



From amundsen463 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 13:53:22 2003
From: amundsen463 at yahoo.com (Craig Amundsen)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 10:53:22 -0700
Subject: MySQL-Python on OS X
Message-ID: <b2fb3fa7.0309090953.7b277d7a@posting.google.com>

Hi -

I'm trying to build the MySQL-Python 0.9.2 module on OS X 10.2.6. I
have installed the Fink version off MySQL (3.23.56-1) and the Fink
version of Python (2.2.2).

I have made the recommended changes to setup.py; I changed the
mysqlclient = thread_safe_library and "mysqlclient_r" or "mysqlclient"
line to
mysqlclient = thread_safe_library and "mysqlclient"

I changed thread_safe_library from YES to NO.

In the darwin section I changed 
include_dirs.append('/sw/include')
library_dirs.append('/sw/lib')
to
include_dirs.append('/sw/include/mysql')
library_dirs.append('/sw/lib/mysql')

When I run 
python setup.py build
I get this error:
line 1033, in gen_lib_options
  File "/sw/lib/python2.2/posixpath.py", line 65, in split
    i = p.rfind('/') + 1
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'rfind'

It looks to me like p is supposed to be a string containing a path,
but is instead an int. I have not in all my searching, found any
mention of this build error. Does anyone have any hints on how to
resolve this issue?

TIA,
- Craig



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep 29 17:05:40 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:05:40 -0500
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <16E3AA52-F2BE-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
References: <20030929204143.GA8765@nl.linux.org>
        <16E3AA52-F2BE-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <16248.40612.944607.2651@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> if expr.strip("0123456789.e") == "": print "May be a number!"
    >> if expr.strip("0123456789") == "": print "Surely a number!"

    Rob> I don't like that solution for this particular project because, as
    Rob> you say yourself, if it says yes to the second question, it only
    Rob> *may* be a number.  I want to know for sure.

Expanding on my previous post, here are a couple *simple-minded* re's for
matching ints and floats (really, fixed-point numbers)

    >>> import re
    >>> ipat = re.compile("([0-9]+)$")
    >>> fpat = re.compile("([0-9]+\.[0-9]*$)")
    >>> token = "123"
    >>> fpat.match(token)
    >>> print fpat.match(token)
    None
    >>> print ipat.match(token)
    <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x40d6a0>
    >>> print ipat.match(token).group(1)
    123
    >>> token = "123.456"
    >>> print ipat.match(token)
    None
    >>> print fpat.match(token)
    <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x487960>
    >>> print fpat.match(token).group(1)
    123.456

Extension of this idea to useful definitions for your interpreter is left as
an exercise for the reader.

Skip




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 09:39:45 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:39:45 GMT
Subject: pop3 email header classifier?
References: <GmZAOKA6Uya$Ew2E@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BYCbb.100868$hE5.3551705@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Robin Becker wrote:

> Hi, I'm getting vast numbers of fake upgrade emails containing some kind
> of virus. My rather old client can be made to reject these based on some
> patterns in the subject line. They're nearly all based on the word
> 'New', 'Latest', 'Microsoft', 'Patch', 'Pack', ... etc etc.
> 
> Is there a python tool that can be made to delete these from my POP3
> mail box rather than let my client reject? Quite a few seem to have
> semi-valid return addresses so I get postmaster rejects from
> xxx at microsoft.com etc.
> 
> I know about spam-bayes etc, but these things are over 120k each and it
> seems pretty pointless to download them (as well as taking about an
> hour).

I posted an "emergency script" to be used for the purpose -- it
triggers SOLELY on mail size.  I have now enhanced it with lots of
options etc, but the basic idea remains that of size-only triggering --
risky but, it IS an emergency.  BTW, the "postmaster rejects" are
likely not connected to what you do with the "fake upgrade emails",
alas -- rather, virus senders are now faking "From:" &c addresses,
so everybody's getting lots of bounce msgs for mails they never sent.


Alex




From sperry at newcreations.us  Sun Sep 28 20:16:34 2003
From: sperry at newcreations.us (Sperry Russ)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:16:34 -0400
Subject: Home Environment
Message-ID: <200309282016340839.000CF274@mail.blazingisp.net>

Hello,

I am a beginner in programming and to python. I am using it to learn programming. I am using Windows 2000 Pro. I installed Python 2.3.1 with the installer which installed it to: C:\Python23. When I run a script in Idle I get the following warning:

Warning: HOME environment variable points to
 %USERPROFILE%
 but the path does not exist.

What should I do to fix this?

Thanks,
Sperry

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From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Sep 16 23:48:35 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:48:35 GMT
Subject: Duck Typing
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063720351.23661.python-list@python.org> <3gG9b.12137$3Y2.2543@news2.central.cox.net> <3F6732DB.F31A954E@engcorp.com> <DaH9b.12147$3Y2.9399@news2.central.cox.net> <3F6749B6.74601D54@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <nQQ9b.12808$3Y2.5792@news2.central.cox.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F6749B6.74601D54 at engcorp.com...
> Steve Holden wrote:
> >
> > "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F6732DB.F31A954E at engcorp.com...
> > > Steve Holden wrote:
> > > >
> > > > exquacktly [ducks and runs]
> > >               ^^^^^
> > >
> > > Steve, did you even _know_ you did this?  You're sick!
> > >
> > > -Peter  :-)
> >
> > Aah, I see, you think I'm stupid.
>
> No, I just knew Irmen was asleep at his keyboard. ;-)
>
> > Of course I knew - without the bracketed afterthought it would hardly
have
> > been worth posting.
> >
> > I'll send you a bill ;-)
>
> If you make it a twenty, would that be a "sawduck"?
>

You'll never beat me at this game. After all, I did write "Web Programming
in Python" ;-)

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From pnu at ukfsn.org  Thu Sep 25 11:25:18 2003
From: pnu at ukfsn.org (Peter Nuttall)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:25:18 +0100
Subject: send email
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.25.13.51.03.520871@riquito.matrix>
References: <D44DA9C0-EF06-11D7-8841-000393C2D67E@colorstudy.com> <mailman.1064486793.21084.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.25.13.51.03.520871@riquito.matrix>
Message-ID: <200309251625.19001.pnu@ukfsn.org>

On Thursday 25 Sep 2003 2:51 pm, Riccardo Attilio Galli wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:46:16 +0100, Peter Nuttall wrote:
> > here is a program to send emails with python. It was writien quickly so
> > it is not perfect.
> > [SNIP]
> >
> > if anyone has any comments I would like to see them.
<snip>
>
> peter, your program write 'e-mail' absolutely not rfc2822 compliant.
<snip>

> Ciao,
> Riccardo

Yeah, I thought It was not compliant. Thanks for the weblink. I have changed 
it based on the standard and what you said, but I have a few questions:

1. message-ID: I have written an few lines of code that have the date and time 
on one side of a @ and the computer's name of the other. is that OK?

2. is there a better way to make the date string that the loop that I have?

3. line length: Is having it set to 78 ok or is that 2 over the limit?

Here is the new code:

import smtplib
from time import gmtime, strftime, localtime
 
winth_of_email=78

message = ''

print 'type message here:'
    
end = 0

while end == 0:
    msg=raw_input()
    
    if msg=='':
        if new_line_1=='1':
            print 'end of message'
            end=1
        else:
            new_line_1='1'
            message = message + '\r\n'
    else:
        new_line_1=''
        new_line_2=''
        lent=len(msg)/winth_of_email
        x=0
        while x <= lent:
            chop=(x+1) * winth_of_email+x
            msg = msg[:chop] + '\r\n' + msg[chop:]
            x+=1
        message = message +'\r\n'+ msg


#adds headers to email
fromaddr=raw_input('what is the from address ')
toaddrs=raw_input('what is the to address ')
subject=raw_input('what is the subject ')
sever=raw_input('what is the smtp sever you are using ')
timesend=strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S +0000", gmtime())
#msg-id maker
#change lupin to the name of your computer

setime=localtime()
x=0
msg_id=''
while x<5:
    msg_id=msg_id+str(setime[x]) 
    x=x+1
msg_id = msg_id + '@lupin'


finalmessage = 'From: '+fromaddr +'\r\n'+ 'To: '+toaddrs 
finalmessage = finalmessage +'\r\n'+ 'Subject: '+ subject +'\r\n' + 'Date: ' + 
timesend
finalmessage = finalmessage + '\r\n' +'Message-ID: ' + msg_id + '\r\n' + '\r
\n' +message


print "Message length is " + `len(finalmessage)`

print
#code for sending email
server = smtplib.SMTP(sever)
server.set_debuglevel(1)
server.sendmail(fromaddr, toaddrs, finalmessage)
server.quit()

Thanks again

Peter

-- 
Someone esle can help you better than I can.

Every time I think that perhaps we are an advanced race, I turn around and 
read ramblings on Slashdot, and realize I was wrong.





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 13:40:13 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:40:13 +0100
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com> <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu> <mailman.1064330017.10730.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95v0nvou5d26oe6ug22q0jftih0080fva8@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:10:49 -0400, Shu-Hsien Sheu <sheu at bu.edu>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>In my understanding, using try/except rather than if/else is more 
>pythonic.

When to use an exception can be a difficult issue in any language.

A common suggestion as to when to use them is 'only for errors' - but
what exactly is an error? Really, its just a special case - and if you
are handling that special case it isn't an error any more.

For example, if your program runs out of memory and cannot complete a
requested task, as long as it handles that special case by reporting
that it run out of memory and not by crashing or whatever, it is
probably doing what any decent requirements document would specify -
in case of insufficient memory, report the problem and cleanly abort
the tasks that cannot be completed without terminating or crashing. In
terms of the requirements, no error has occurred - a special case has
simply been handled exactly as per the requirements.

Actually, I'm not really convinced by that argument either. I think I
first read it in Stroustrup, though I can't be bothered checking ATM.
Anyway, what I'm trying to express is that when to use an exception is
more about intuitions and common sense than hard-and-fast rules.

The nearest thing to a hard-and-fast rule, though, is that if you
throw an exception the condition should really be exceptional - a
special case as opposed to a normal case. try/except is not just an
alternative to if/else, and neither is it an alternative to 'break' in
loops (though Icon programmers may be tempted to use it that way).

One major benefit of exceptions is that you don't have to keep
checking 'has any error occured' in multiple if statements in a
function. Any function that does anything even remotely complicated
will have many different possible error conditions. Making sure that
normal-case code is not run when a failure has already occurred can be
a major headache. Enough of a headache that in C, many people think
error handling is the only case where a 'goto' is acceptable (so an
error can trigger a goto straight to the cleanup code at the end of a
function, keeping the rest of the function clean).

There are other issues, of course - exceptions allow your functions to
cope properly with errors that you don't even know about in functions
that you call, for instance.

But basically, if you handle exceptional conditions by raising
exceptions, your logic will get much clearer as for the most part it
only has to deal with the normal case. The exceptional cases get
handled by the exception handlers.

But if you use try/except as an alternative to if/else, people who
have to read your code may well take up dark magics purely so they can
curse you more effectively ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Sep 22 13:57:52 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:57:52 -0700
Subject: Playing with dictionaries
References: <10c662fe.0309220907.a84bea5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-2C8472.10575222092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <10c662fe.0309220907.a84bea5 at posting.google.com>,
 roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De Almeida) wrote:

> Suppose I have a dictionary containg nested dictionaries. Something
> like this:
> 
> >>> pprint.pprint(dataset)
> {'casts': {'experimenter': None,
>            'location': {'latitude': None,
>                         'longitude': None},
>            'time': None,
>            'xbt': {'depth': None,
>                    'temperature': None}},
>  'catalog_number': None,
>  'z': {'array': {'z': None},
>        'maps': {'lat': None,
>                 'lon': None}}}
> 
> I want to assign to the values in the dictionary the hierarchy of keys
> to it. For example:
> 
> >>> dataset['casts']['experimenter'] = 'casts.experimenter'
> >>> dataset['z']['array']['z'] = 'z.array.z'
> 
> Of course I would like to do this automatically, independent of the
> structure of the dictionary. Is there an easy way to do it?

def makehierarchy(dataset,prefix=''):
   for key in dataset:
      if dataset[key] is None:
         dataset[key] = prefix + key
      elif isinstance(dataset[key], dict):
         makehierarchy(dataset[key], prefix + key + ".")
      else:
         raise ValueError, "Unexpected data type in makehierarchy"

>>> makehierarchy(dataset,'dataset')
>>> pprint.pprint(dataset)
{'casts': {'experimenter': 'casts.experimenter',
           'location': {'latitude': 'casts.location.latitude',
                        'longitude': 'casts.location.longitude'},
           'time': 'casts.time',
           'xbt': {'depth': 'casts.xbt.depth',
                   'temperature': 'casts.xbt.temperature'}},
 'catalog_number': 'catalog_number',
 'z': {'array': {'z': 'z.array.z'},
       'maps': {'lat': 'z.maps.lat', 'lon': 'z.maps.lon'}}}

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Sep 30 15:43:17 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:43:17 +0100
Subject: [PMW] Rename a notebook's page - how?
In-Reply-To: <3f79b621@news.swissonline.ch>
References: <3f798986@news.swissonline.ch>
 <mailman.1064934294.5084.python-list@python.org> <3f79b621@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <1064950996.1139.15.camel@m-franklin>

On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 17:59, F. GEIGER wrote:
> Thank you Martin,
> 
> but I've still troubles, because the tab has the new name now, but the page
> is in PMW still known with the old name.
> 
> I see this because I've registered for the raisecommand event:
> 
>    def _onSelect_(self, pageName):
>       Proxy.DataProxy().containerSelect(pageName)
>       return
> 
> And here pageName is the old name despite the fact that the new name is
> displayed on the tab.
> 
> Kind regards
> Franz GEIGER
> 
> 
> "Martin Franklin" <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> schrieb im
> Newsbeitrag news:mailman.1064934294.5084.python-list at python.org...
> > On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 14:49, F. GEIGER wrote:
> > > Hi again,
> > >
> > > I'd like to rename a page of a notebook. Deleting the page and adding a
> new
> > > one is not really an option, because the page is filled with other
> controls
> > > already. So I looked into Pmw.Notebook. There are quite a few lists and
> > > dicts which were to be changed and I wasn't successful in the first try.
> > >
> > > However, if nobody has ever done this, I'd have to rebuild the whole
> page
> > > after deleting/adding. I really hope there's an other way to go.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > > Franz GEIGER
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > You need to get hold of the "tab" widget and change it's text.
> >
> > nb = Pmw.NoteBook(root)
> > nb.pack()
> >
> >
> > nb.add("Page1")
> > nb.add("Page2")
> > nb.add("Page3")
> >
> >
> > tab = nb.tab("Page1")
> > tab["text"]= "Martin1"
> >


I've been trying to 'get round' this..... without much success
internally the NoteBook keeps track of it's pages using both a list of
names and a dictionary of name : page attributes 

so I thought you could mess around with these...  

    notebook._pageAttrs[newname] = notebook._pageAttrs[oldname]
    notebook.tab(oldname)["text"]=newname
    notebook._pageNames[index]=newname
    del notebook._pageAttrs[oldname]

However when you try to raise your newly renamed page it fails :-(
because the callback that lifts the page to the top has the page name 
stuck in it like so:

        if self._withTabs:
            # Create the button for the tab.
            def raiseThisPage(self = self, pageName = pageName):
                self.selectpage(pageName)
            tabOptions['command'] = raiseThisPage


Where pageName is the name given at the time the page was created
(the above code is from the insert method in PmwNotebook)

So you would have to do quite a lot of messing around....
replacing the above callback with your own at least...  This is where I
stopped trying...

So in order to keep it simple I would (in your own code) keep a
dictionary  of old vs new page names or something simple like that.
So you above method would look something like this:-


def _onSelect_(self, pageName):
    realPageName = self.myPageDict[pageName]
    Proxy.DataProxy().containerSelect(realPageName)
    return 



Or failing that convert the pageName into a page index (an integer)
using the notebook.index(pageName) method. 


HTH
Martin


P.S  Most people on this list do not top post.  (I'm not saying this is
good _or_ bad ;-) 


-- 
Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>





From claird at lairds.com  Mon Sep  1 09:28:49 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:28:49 -0000
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162> <vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com> <3f533f3d$0$32467$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <vl6ichsnqa7dfa@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3f533f3d$0$32467$edfadb0f at dread16.news.tele.dk>,
Dan Thrue  <rummanddan_nospam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>> 			.
>> 			.
>> 			.
>> Python already has a structure--and much content!--for 
>> comparable collaboration in <URL: http://
>> www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/ >.  Moreover, as several
			.
			.
			.
>Thank for your feedback, i personally uses pydoc when im in need of 
>documentation, but sometimes i have been in such situations where code 
>snippets was necessary for me. The background for this project is to 
>gain a great database public of snippets hooked in a structure that is 
>easily for all to use, novice as well as expert.
			.
			.
			.
I apologize for muddling my message.  I completely agree
that a public knowledge store of code fragments and re-
lated matters, that is easy for all to access, is a great
blessing.  That's the aim of the Wiki.  Or were you 
judging the Wiki a failure in that, but too polite to 
make it explicit?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From ngps at netmemetic.com  Tue Sep 16 04:58:07 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 08:58:07 GMT
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com>:
> kasper graversen wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:36:44 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > >> Erm, what's "MOP" mean? 
> > what has all this talk to do with documentation of the MOP???
> Er, if you'll look back, you'll see that Anthony asked what MOP
> meant 

Meta Object Protocol.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Sep 12 01:50:46 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 07:50:46 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <3F60B545.6030100@sci.fi> <mailman.1063306316.30786.python-list@python.org> <m3smn3t5xx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1063320739.26865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37k4e7dxl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:

> - Copy the "1" object into shared memory before passing it to
> L.append().  This would be nice and transparent, but also a little
> DWIM.

That might work for the object 1, but some object simply couldn't be
copied, e.g. file objects, _tkinter objects, and so on.

> - Create special object types just for shared memory.

That might be feasible, but would not be valuable. You would have to
duplicate entire type hierarchies, and it would not convenient for
users to use this duplication.

> As it turns out, POSH (see Jeremy's link) takes the second strategy,
> apparently quite successfully!  Anyone who has concerns about the GIL
> should take a long, hard look at POSH.  It just might solve the
> problem for lots of people.

It's an interesting approach, but it remains to be seen whether it
really solves problems in real life.

Regards,
Martin




From carel.fellinger at chello.nl  Tue Sep 16 12:44:00 2003
From: carel.fellinger at chello.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:44:00 +0200
Subject: Datetime utility functions
In-Reply-To: <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com>
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com> <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com> <brtl7s6v.fsf@yahoo.co.uk> <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030916164400.GA3062@mail.felnet>

On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 05:19:50PM +0300, Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
...
> I sent my own version without having seen your own --and mine might seem
> obfuscated, compared to yours.

you both use the same indirect way of getting to the end of the month.
why not do what datetime.c does, like:

    _days_in_month = [
        0, # unused; this vector uses 1-based indexing */
        31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31
        ]
    
    def _is_leap_year(year):
        return year % 4 == 0 and (year % 100 !=0 or year % 400 == 0)
    
    def days_in_month(year, month):
        if month == 2 and _is_leap_year(year):
            return 29
        else:
            return _days_in_month[month]
    
    def end_of_month(d):
        date(d.y, d.m, days_in_month(d.y, d.m))


-- 
groetjes, carel




From rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au  Tue Sep  9 23:37:15 2003
From: rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au (Chris)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:37:15 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com> <g_Y5b.25276$R32.778757@news2.tin.it> <74e674c13888643bf15a72e800c9d8ed@news.teranews.com> <Fxf6b.20653$hE5.755579@news1.tin.it> <3f5c61cb@shknews01>
Message-ID: <e7a06f4833be928e72e1ac8ec9f61bc2@news.teranews.com>

"Kerim" <my at mail.ru> wrote in news:3f5c61cb at shknews01:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
> news:Fxf6b.20653$hE5.755579 at news1.tin.it...
>> Chris wrote:
>>
>> > LOL
>> >
>> > thanks for the heads up on Boost
>>

>> really got the hang of it, while Boost and pyste are a snap to use
>> (for Python, which coversa basically all I need).
>>
> 
> And you don't consider boost::python too slow?
> 
> Kerim
> 
> 
> 

I havent managed to find the time to run a few trials, I have to learn
python first, but I will keep that in the back of my mind 

Thanks for the warning 

Chris



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep  1 17:22:21 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 23:22:21 +0200
Subject: Update to Python 2.3 on Red Hat Linux 9
References: <8242f4a7.0308282240.4c87f997@posting.google.com> <m3ptimpoaw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bitni9$icp$0@216.39.172.122> <m3k78tzft2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bitvlv$69t$0@216.39.172.122> <m3he3xkq5s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bivvnl$uim$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m3u17wp5ki.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> How about automating the prerequisites part ? Assuming an individual
> solves the problem for her/his platform, is there a mechanism for
> contributing a script that does all the work [1] (assuming a working
> core installation with standard libs) of making directories and
> gathering 3rd party pieces together from the net and checking
> versions and dates and md5's etc. and building and installing it?

I can't think of an easy solution, given that the prerequisites part
might involve inserting a CD-ROM or DVD into the drive, and/or
downloading stuff. So the first person figuring out an automated way
would also have to contribute that. I doubt anybody is willing to do
that.

> [1b] Is there a budding collection somewhere already? On python.org?

What does "budding" mean? If you are asking whether there is a place
where such information should be collected: Certainly, the Wiki on
python.org.

> So I am wondering if there could be porting scripts in the future,
> downloadable from python.org

Anything is possible if somebody does the hard work. And trust me:
there is a lot of hard work needed here.

Regards,
Martin



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep 29 17:50:36 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 17:50:36 -0400
Subject: FTP access to starship.python.net?
References: <d7fcf8b4.0309271341.72304331@posting.google.com> <7h3fzif1yi8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bla9fc$v3$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <7h3fzif1yi8.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>,
Michael Hudson  <mwh at python.net> wrote:
>samschul at pacbell.net (Samuel Schulenburg) writes:
>>
>> Who should I contact about accessing my account on Starship. I need to
>> obtain a new password and access process.
>> 
>> I think i am having a memory lapse as it has been over a year sense I
>> have had a need to access my files.
>
>I think emailing <your username>-starship at python.net will lead to
>enlightenment.

Hmmmm.  I tried that, and I haven't been enlightened.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From syver at inout.no  Thu Sep  4 04:09:21 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 10:09:21 +0200
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com> <vqOdnRuMAaBofMiiRVn-hg@giganews.com> <Gtmdnc6WsOhQaciiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <3f566672.342116427@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <u4qzt2cwe.fsf@inout.no>

alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld) writes:

> On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:03:57 -0500, "A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:40:48 +0100, 
> > > If it's too much, buy it second-hand.  It's a good book, and although
> > > plenty of it is just common sense, it's the type of common sense that's
> > > easy to miss :)
> > 
> > Isn't it mostly concerned with C, though?  
> 
> Not really, he gives examples in BASIC, ADA, Pascal and Fortran
> as well as C./C++ The latter pair dominate as a reflection on
> where the industry was in 1992. But the basic tenets apply
> regardless of language - code layout, variable naming, control
> structures etc.
> 
> Code Complete is essential reading for any prpfessional
> programmer IMHO, but it may not be essential for non pros...

I agree that Code Complete is a very good book, but I also think it is
getting somewhat long in the tooth. For once it doesn't cover
object-orientation. On the topic of coding I wonder if people are not
better off buying Refactoring by Martin Fowler and Kent Beck. On the
topic of project managment and development practices I would think
that the XP white book would be more up to date.
 



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Sep  2 13:51:05 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:51:05 -0700
Subject: win32all for 2.3
References: <mailman.1062503284.25172.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vl9m4ahdibhf60@corp.supernews.com>

Gerhard Venter wrote:
> I need to get *win32all* for 2.3 quite urgently.  It should be at
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html
> However, the starship site seems to have disappeared, even from DNS.  Is
> there any other way I could get the file?

Starship is up, but it seems to have dropped out of DNS. Try the IP address
instead:

http://217.160.219.194/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html

And win32all-155 (for Python 2.3) is here:

http://217.160.219.194/crew/mhammond/downloads/win32all-155.exe

-Mike





From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep  1 16:37:49 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 21:37:49 +0100
Subject: Advice to a Junior in High School?
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <3d6c6fc3.0308261246.32db39d5@posting.google.com> <a86143fb.0309010829.1432737d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87bru4p7mq.fsf@pobox.com>

pcolsen at comcast.net (Peter Olsen) writes:

> soundinmotiondj at yahoo.com (Stan Graves) wrote in message news:<3d6c6fc3.0308261246.32db39d5 at posting.google.com>...
[...]
> Master it.   Use it with precision.  As Stan wrote, read Shakespeare. 
> Read Churchill for his prose.  Read poetry. (I like Robert Service,
> plain though he may be.)
[...]

Poor guy -- all he asked was what programming language to learn next,
and he gets deluged with everybody's Lessons in Life ;-)


John



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep  2 17:52:59 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:52:59 -0700
Subject: cli arguments
References: <3f5506d5$0$8546$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3F55113B.AA5A5C8C@alcyone.com>

Geiregat Jonas wrote:

> What is the module called that's made to dael with cli argument's like
> --foo-bar -c -blabla ?

Try the getopt module.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Divorces are made in Heaven.
\__/  Oscar Wilde



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 10:36:48 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:36:48 +0100
Subject: Passing data out of a Sax parser
References: <fe5nmv0mno1ib23ifekntp3v3u2er5bstt@4ax.com> <SxNab.10403$BS5.7382@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <942umvsv7etuu9qr104jivkc1bassh556e@4ax.com>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 00:53:06 GMT, "Andrew Dalke"
<adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>Tim Rowe:
>> b. Add a parameter to the handler's __init__ method, that takes some
>> sort of mutable object, and put the answer into that object.
>
>Either that or have startDocument create the mutable object, as
>
>class MyHandler(xml.sax.handlers.ContentHandler):
>  def startDocument(self):
>    self.count = 0
>  def startElement(self, name, attrs):
>    if name == "spam":
>        self.count += 1
>
>parser = xml.sax.make_parser()
>h = MyHandler()
>parser.setContentHandler(h)
>h.parse(input)
>print h.count

Ah!  Of course!  Thanks, I should have thought of that.  As others
have pointed out, startDocument can create any sort of an object
there, not just a mutable, of course; it was my solution that required
a mutable.



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 22:52:46 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 19:52:46 -0700
Subject: Question: Inheritance from a buil-in type
References: <mailman.1064911662.9559.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309301852.66cf1b7b@posting.google.com>

"Pettersen, Bjorn S" <BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064911662.9559.python-list at python.org>...
>
> Shart answer: you should call super as "super(MyTuple, self)".
>
Oops!  Of course I should!



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 23 13:07:55 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:07:55 -0400
Subject: a little OT: how to handle this email list?
References: <mailman.1064323412.13237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F707DEB.1961C7D@engcorp.com>

Matthew Wilson wrote:
> 
> I subscribe to the python mailing list with an IMAP mailbox.  I use
> squirrelmail to check my mail.  This is a great list, but it is definitely
> high volume.  My python folder fills up with several hundred emails every
> day.  How do the rest of you handle all the traffic on this list?  Do you
> delete everything at the end of every day?

As Skip pointed out, use a "thread kill" feature.  If you don't have 
that with this newsgroup/mailing list, you're probably screwed! :-)

I tend to read with my finger on the "k" key more than on the "n" 
(for "next") key.  Relatively few threads survive the first posting.
Some few that do, I tend to hit "n" rapidly to skip past updates except
those made by folks who've shown they have a clue.  If no interesting
posts are made after a while, even the formerly interesting threads will
get encounter the "k" key of death...

-Peter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep 26 12:40:01 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:40:01 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <Xns9402A53AD8C02duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <vn8r00p0brg98c@news.supernews.com>

"Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns9402A53AD8C02duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1...
> Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote in
> news:h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080 at nnrp1.uunet.ca:
>
> > I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For
> > example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered
> > incomplete?
>
> You very rarely need \ as it is. Any parenthesised expression may be split
> across lines without problems.

And you can parenthesize a surprisingly large number of places. One
that I learned just recently was that the entire operand string of the
print statement can be put into parenthesis.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
> int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
> "\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?





From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Tue Sep  2 13:10:41 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:10:41 -0400
Subject: **kwds behavior?
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F54CF11.6080904@zephyrfalcon.org>

Paradox wrote:
> Why does the following attempts to pass in keywords arguments not
> work. It would be alot cooler if there was a way to not have to have
> the function defined with the variable name. It really seems to me
> that the 3rd function should work. Does anyone know how to accomplish
> something like this.

"this" apparently means, that you want to create local variables (within in the 
function) with the same names as the keyword arguments.

> def testKeywords1 (**kwds):
> 	print x
> 	
> def testKeywords2 (**kwds):
> 	locals().update(kwds)
> 	print x
> 		
> def testKeywords3 (**kwds):
> 	locals().update(kwds)
> 	def testNested():
> 		print x
> 	testNested()

As people already pointed out, modifying locals() like this doesn't work. 
There is a solution, but before using it you should stop and ask yourself why 
you want this.  Is there a reason why leaving the values in the dict isn't 
sufficient?  (Or putting them in a special class, like one poster suggested.) 
Creating variables on-the-fly is usually a bad idea.

Now, on to the yucky solution:

 >>> def g(**kwargs):
         for key, value in kwargs.items():
             exec "%s = %s" % (key, repr(value))
         # test test...
	print x
	
 >>> d = {}
 >>> d['x'] = 5
 >>> g(**d)
5

HTH,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From andrew-twisted at puzzling.org  Sun Sep 14 01:43:30 2003
From: andrew-twisted at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:43:30 +1000
Subject: Web server with Python
In-Reply-To: <6o24mvcmksid33t4s9b8cbsrnctl5n2o6m@4ax.com>
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com> <mailman.1063352060.32640.python-list@python.org> <6o24mvcmksid33t4s9b8cbsrnctl5n2o6m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030914054330.GA899@frobozz>

[CC'ing the Twisted mailing list]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 08:05:59PM +0200, Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:33:34 +1000, Andrew Bennetts
> <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote:
> 
> >> Does Twisted work well with Python 2.3?
> >
> >Yes, current versions support 2.3 without any problems.
> 
> Version 1.0.6 refuses to install, though, complaining it requires Python
> 2.2.

Eek!  Does 1.0.7 (just released) work any better?  Also, what platform are
you using, and are you installing from the source .tar.gz or something else?

-Andrew.





From uce at ftc.gov  Sun Sep 21 17:10:24 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:10:24 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings - symetry with list types
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org>
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zHadnfwvu-UmjvOiU-KYhw@comcast.com>

Andy Jewell wrote:

> 
> Mutable strings are one thing that I missed, initially, when I first started 
> using Python.  After a while, as the "Pythonic" way of doing things sank in, 
> I realised that Python doesn't *need* mutable strings.
> 

Well...it doesn't /need/ the simple expressions that were given to alot 
of things.

> Python strings (and integers and floats) are all immutable for a very good 
> reason:  dictionaries can't reliably use mutable objects as keys.  

And I'm not suggesting doing away with immutable strings.

> At first, 
> this seemed rather like "the tail wagging the dog"...  however, once I fully 
> understood the % (percent) string operator, and the ability to efficiently 
> convert strings into lists and back, my anxiety went away.   These cover most 
> usage of strings that might convince you you need mutability.
>

Yeah, you /can/ do everything, it's a question of clarity. You see how 
often ' '.join( blah ) is the answer to people's questions here, it's 
not obvious and it looks like a hack, IMO. Plus you can't do
somestring = '%s %s %s' % [ 'nine', 'bladed', 'sword' ]
The extra steps in list(somestring) ... ''.join( somestring ) are what 
could be removed I guess.

> As for the suggestion that the kind of quote used should determine whether or 
> not a string is mutable, I sort of /half/ agree.  On one hand, making (say) 
> the apostrophe mean mutable and the double quote mean immutable would break 
> thousands of existing applications - for end users, "a simple search and 
> replace" is simply not feasable!  

I'm less sure about that now, but the important point is that you would 
know that all old string delimiters would be changed to the immutable 
one. I'll try to come up with a regex.

Furthermore, the meaning of the following
> snippet would be subtly (and possibly dangerously) changed:
> 
> ----8<-----
>     s1="this is an 'immutable' string"
>     s2='this is a "mutable" string'
> 
>     s3=s1.replace("'",'"')+" and "+s2.replace('"','"')   # replace quotes with
>    # apostrophes and vice-versa
>
 >
>     d1={s3:(s1,s2)}
> ----8<-----
> 
> Q1) What type will s3 be?
> Q2) What happens to s2?  As it's mutable, shouldn't it do the replacement 
> "in-line"?
> Q3) Will the assignment of d1 succeed?  If it fails, wouldn't that be 
> confusing?
> 

I think these problems can be avoided if you just escape both symbols 
within both types of string. This complicates the code conversion, of 
course.

> On the other hand, Python already has this type distinction for raw and 
> unicode strings (r"..." and u"...", respectively).  If it were to be adopted, 
> I would be ok with an m"..." type of string, which could be barred from being 
> a dictionary key.   This would open up a can of worms wrt the other immutable 
> types, too: would we end up with:
> 
> ----8<-----
>     a=1234567m # a mutable integer
>     b=1234567.89m # a mutable float
>     c=123456789012345678901234567890Lm # a mutable long integer
>     d=123+456jm # a mutable complex number
>     e=m(1,2,3,4,5,6,"a","b","c") # a mutable tuple !!! :-p
> ----8<-----

I don't understand what a mutable numeric type would be. I just want a 
string type that I can directly treat as an array of characters; numeric 
types aren't indexable.

> 
> This could start a flame-war/heated debate on the scale of the ternary 
> operator PEP!

Viva la ?:! ;-)

> 
> Maybe there's a project for you (and a good introduction to a practical 
> application for new-style Python classes to boot)!  
> 
> I'm sure people have written this type of thing in the past - and in some 
> situations, it's bound to be useful, but I think it should be kept as a 
> separate module, so that you have to *declare* your usage of this /strange/ 
> behaviour to the reader; "explicit is better than implicit".

Think of it as a symetry with the mutable and immutable list types we 
already have. It is kind of strange, but we learn their applications and 
deal with it. What's the balance of what shows up in code? I suspect 
that in gross terms there's more (mutable) list use than (immutable) 
tuple; mutable strings would have their place likewise.




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 01:30:07 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:30:07 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <m2eky8dtny.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <eppstein-6C690F.21531522092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <j0mvmvg7sro9lq03ujb1isg940mgvsr43j@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:53:15 -0700, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>In article <m2eky8dtny.fsf at mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>,
> Paul Foley <see at below.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > There may be some hint towards PEP284 (integer for loops) in a review
>> > of ideas from other languages, but I'm damned if i can figure it out.
>> > I spent some time thinking about it and couldn't find anything that
>> > would cover the issue.
>> 
>> > All I came up with was the recognition that some other languages have
>> > 'for' and 'foreach' loops. But Python went down the route of using
>> > 'for' for looping over lists/iterators a long time ago. Maybe a new
>> > keyword or combination could help, such as...
>> 
>> >   for range i in 0 <= i < 10 :
>
>The idea behind the specific syntax of PEP284 was simply the following 
>observation: one way of reading "for i in iterator" is that it loops 
>over the values for which the expression "i in iterator" is true.
>What types of expressions other than the "in" operator could be 
>substituted in the same context and do something useful?

OK - that makes sense, but I don't think I'd naturally read '0 <= i <
10' as an iterator without a good deal of prompting. Even with the
explanation, I still feel the need for a different (or extra) keyword
to emphasise the difference.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From amk at amk.ca  Sun Sep  7 16:13:12 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:13:12 -0500
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <AtKdnWv20dXFDMaiRTvUqQ@speakeasy.net>

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 12:51:45 -0700, 
	Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Could someone remind me what need there is for a redesign in the first
> place?  Of all the Python-related efforts that one could put time into,

Because the current site is unattractive, jumbled, hard to navigate, and
sucks dead bunnies through a straw?

--amk



From tayss_temp at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 21:36:20 2003
From: tayss_temp at yahoo.com (Tayss)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 18:36:20 -0700
Subject: Making mock (was Re: "Python Redesign" (fwd))
References: <mailman.1062982932.16437.python-list@python.org> <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw@comcast.com> <bjif13$ou8$1@panix3.panix.com> <5XmdnSsEgZVGSsGiU-KYvw@comcast.com> <bjiosp$g7c$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0309081736.5fbc0d2b@posting.google.com>

As I understand, people were unhappy he gave us a prototype.  However,
some developers even talk about paper prototypes.
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/news/20030516.html

Not everyone gets to use a language where the prototype is the working
implementation. ;)

- Tayssir John Gabbour



From kaede.news at online.ru  Thu Sep 11 15:28:45 2003
From: kaede.news at online.ru (Eugene Morozov)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:28:45 +0400
Subject: JPEG comments and PIL
Message-ID: <87ekynnmz6.fsf@tanya.home.spb>

Hello!
Is it possible to manipulate JPEG comments using PIL? I
didn't find corresponding methods in the PIL library. I
just want to write yet another image viewer and editor
(similar to gthumb only crossplatform and with better
comment editing interface and web album generation
feature ;)) which stores comments in the JPEG images
themselves.
Eugene

-- 
Email: <jmv at online.ru>



From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Fri Sep 19 06:45:35 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:45:35 +0200
Subject: string objects...
References: <e84f5d12.0309182143.3807af0e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87k7853vlc.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

mynews44 at yahoo.com (google account) writes:

> I know that string.letters and string.digits are all the letters and
> numbers, is there a string.????  that is a subset of all the ascii
> characters that are available on a US English Keyboard without going
> to special characters (like ? or ?)
>
> I couldnt see anything that was explaining this stuff on the
> python.org site.
>
> I think what I want is soemthing like string.printable -
> string.whitespace but that doesn't seem to work like string.letters +
> string.numbers...
>

Minus does not work on string, as there is now obvious meaning of
this: cut from the end, or a set like minus you would be happy this
time

You may use list comprehension to filter out all whitespace from
printable and than join the list with empty separator:

>>> import string
>>> ''.join([c for c in string.printable if c not in string.whitespace])
'0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ!"#$%&\'()*+,-./:;<=>?@[\\]^_`{|}~'

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep 25 09:00:14 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:00:14 GMT
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com> <3dd5593c.0309211615.747ba123@posting.google.com> <3F6E4D02.7868D52C@easystreet.com> <616fccba.0309230137.586ddea5@posting.google.com> <bkt9ct$71h$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <yFBcb.119348$hE5.4103433@news1.tin.it>

Fernando Perez wrote:
   ...
>> e.g. generating billions (with a B) of random numbers with the
>> Mersenne Twister algorithm
> 
> Off the top of my head I don't know which rng RandomArray (part of
> Numeric) uses, but its speed is not that bad:
   ...
> The scaling is pretty linear, so for a billion terms you'd need about 2
> minutes.

Similar orders of magnitude for the built-in random number generator,
which IS a Mersenne Twister in Python 2.3 -- at least on my old trusty
Athlon box (no doubt today's CPU's would easily take 3 or 4 times less):

[alex at lancelot python2.3]$ python timeit.py \
> -s "from random import random"  \
> -s "times=[None]*1000" 
> "for x in times: random()"
1000 loops, best of 3: 380 usec per loop

380 microseconds for 1,000 calls to random.random(), and here, too,
very linear scaling, suggests about 380 seconds for a billion calls,
i.e., about 6 or 7 minutes, on this old machine.


Alex




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Sep 13 10:58:42 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:58:42 -0500
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
In-Reply-To: <oprvc7dcpg5ctagx@shawnews>
References: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com>
        <2E78b.1002$8g2.829@news1.central.cox.net>
        <E5WcnXLOoPRMiPyiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
        <VV88b.1024$8g2.587@news1.central.cox.net>
        <oprvc7dcpg5ctagx@shawnews>
Message-ID: <16227.12450.504046.510291@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> I will note, however, that Flash's XML parser is slow, and WDDX is
    >> more compact than XML-RPC (although it isn't, in itself, an RPC
    >> protocol, unlike XML-RPC).

    Jordan> God, is it ever slow.  I'm working on a remote playlist editor
    Jordan> (Flash talking to Python XML-RPC), and when sending a list of
    Jordan> ~1000 entities across the wire, performance was increased nearly
    Jordan> a hundred times simply by sending one delimited string element
    Jordan> instead of 1000 XML elements.  Of course, XML adds quite a bit
    Jordan> of bloat, but all the time was consumed in CPU, not on the wire.

Have you tried installing sgmlop, which pushes most of the XML parsing into
C?

    http://www.pythonware.com/products/xml/sgmlop.htm

Skip




From steve at ferg.org  Sun Sep 28 21:37:37 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 18:37:37 -0700
Subject: Python mascot? How about a Pythoneer?
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0309281737.46423a88@posting.google.com>

I've been thinking that a good Python mascot might help in raising
public awareness of Python.

The problem with a snake as a mascot is that it is not anthropomorphic
enough.  An effective mascot has to have something approximating two
arms, two legs, and a head, so that he can be put into various
interesting situations and adventures.  (At the very least, he has to
be able to work a keyboard and a mouse!)  Good examples can be found
in some of the imaginative things that have been done with Linux's
Tux.

So a snake is out.  

So are Terry Gilliam's wonderful cartoons for the Flying Circus. 
While wonderful, I just don't think they lend themselves to
mascot-hood.

With the snake and the  flying circus eliminated, we haven't got much
left.  Clearly, it is time to think out of the box.

In that spirit, I propose the development of a figure representing
Python -- the Pythoneer.

He'd be loosley based on Dave Stevens' Rocketeer (which became the
Disney movie, "The Rocketeer")  and/or on the Rocketman figure of the
old Republic serials -- Commando Cody, King of the Rocketmen, and so
on.  But he'd have a big "P" on his chest, like Guido has in the
second picture on http://www.python.org/~guido/pics.html

With a helmet, the Pythoneer's features are simplified enough to lend
themselves to small images, cartoons, and even (in the hands of
skilled artists) the expression of emotions.  The rocket pack suggests
the power of Python and the power that Python gives to developers. See
for example http://goldenscore.free.fr/images/rocketeer.jpg

The rocket pack also offers a useful means for getting/putting the
Pythoneer into interesting situations and adventures.

At first I liked the idea of a Pythoneer modelled on Dave Stevens'
Rocketeer, but after thinking about what I assume is a copyright on
the Rocketeer figure -- and also thinking that the riding pants get a
bit old after a while -- I have warmed to the clunky charms of the
original Rocketman figure with his bullet-like helmet.

So now the idea/proposal has been thrown into the comp.lang.python
arena.  Is the idea for a Python mascot a good one, or a stupid one? 
Is the idea of a Pythoneer a good one?  Or are there  other, better,
Python mascots just waiting to emerge?

-- Steve Ferg 

==================================================
Here are some reference materials

The Rocketeer
-------------
http://home.mindspring.com/~graphic_illusion/rocket.jpg
http://www.filmwise.com/visual/cutout_03/image_02a.jpg 

The Rocketman
-------------
http://www.superherophotos.net/serials/cc.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Garden/3622/ccsmou.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Garden/3622/moreimages.htm
http://users.erols.com/cdmalin/CommCody.jpg 

The Rocketeer and Rocketman
---------------------------

(This page proves that Jennifer Connelly would also make a great
Python mascot... I'm sure her presence would boost attendance at the
IPCs.)
http://www.superherophotos.net/serials/rocket.htm

http://www.rocketmania.com/images/two%20rockets.jpg

Tux
-----------------------

Finally,here are some things that have been done with Tux.

The original drawing by Larry Ewing: 
http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/

Collections of Tuxes: 
http://www.linux.org/info/logos.html
http://tunes.org/~do/penguindex.html



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Sep 14 18:02:57 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 00:02:57 +0200
Subject: Python / Chinese Encodings
References: <bjv5vk$6cu$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m31xujdo4u.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Achim Domma" <domma at procoders.net> writes:

> I  need to convert Big5 or GB encoded chinese strings to unicode. It would
> be also nice to be able to detect the encoding of the original string.
> Search with groups.google.com I found some links to different projects but
> they all look not very active. Can somebody give me a short overview of the
> status of processing chinese texts with python?

The very short summary: Use the CJK codecs package; it supports all
encodings you might encounter, and it is actively maintained.

As for detecting the encoding of the original string: Forget it. Tell
your communication partners to always properly declare the encoding.

Regards,
Martin




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Sep  4 13:18:43 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:18:43 +0300
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
References: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com> <bj5b4g$jtg$1@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <eoselvguf3hvie3s95kjndhtuno0jiu09s@4ax.com>

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:15:16 +0900, rumours say that "Changjune Kim"
<juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net> might have written:

>(I'm interested to see his "extremely fast" text widget, too)

Notice that Michael Peuser described an "extremely fast" "binary
editor"; I assume a dual view (hex / chars) one.  This is not a text
widget --you don't have to account for line feeds and variable width
characters :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Wed Sep 17 13:55:49 2003
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 17:55:49 GMT
Subject: build python using mingw
Message-ID: <bka775$3djvv$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Hi,

I tried to build python 2.3 on a windows 2k machine using
mingw. configure works fine, but when compiling
Module/posixmodule.c I get lots of warnings,
one is
     'SIGCHLD undeclared' (first use in this function).

Did anyone suceed in building Python + mingw ?

Greetings, Uwe




   
-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt   http://www.procoders.net                      
schmitt at procoders.net      "A service to open source is a service to mankind."



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 08:31:58 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:31:58 GMT
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org> <6e990e29.0309220251.51fa648d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2ZBbb.100213$hE5.3539928@news1.tin.it>

Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:
   ...
>> I realised that Python doesn't *need* mutable strings.
> 
> Mutable strings come to *my* mind whenever I have to play with huge
> binary data.  Working with tens of megabytes is inherently somewhat
> slow.

But mutable strings are not the best place to keep "huge binary
data".  Lists of smaller blocks, arrays of bytes, and lists of
arrays can be much more appropriate data structures.


>> Python strings (and integers and floats) are all immutable for a very goo
>> d
>> reason:  dictionaries can't reliably use mutable objects as keys.
> 
> All understood. But then, I don't want to use my 32-MB binary blob as
> a key.

Since you don't in fact need to use it in any of the ways typically
applicable only to strings, it doesn't need to be a string.


>> convert strings into lists and back, my anxiety went away.   These cover
>> most usage of strings that might convince you you need mutability.
> 
> Converting said blob 'efficiently' to a list is something that I
> certainly would not call 'efficiently' - if not for the conversion
> itself, then for the memory consumption as list.

A typical case might be one where the blob is, e.g., in fact made
up of 65K sectors of 512 bytes each.  In this case, the extra memory
consumption due to keeping the blob in memory as a list of 65K small
strings rather than one big string is, I would guess, about 1%.  So,
who cares?  And similarly if the "substrings" are of different sizes,
just as long as you only have a few tens of thousands of such
substrings.  It's quite unusual that the "intrinsic structure" of
the blob is in fact one big undifferentiated 32MB thingy -- when it
is, you're unlikely to need it in memory, or if you do you're
unlikely to be able to apply any processing mutation to it sensibly;
and for those unusual and unlikely cases, arrays of bytes are often
just fine (after all, C has nothing BUT arrays of bytes [or of other
fixed entities], yet it's quite suitable for some such processing).


> I don't think strings are immutable because they ought to be that way
> (e.g. some CS guru teaches that "mutable strings are the root of all
> evil"). They're immutable because they allow them to be used as
> dictionary keys. And it was found that this doesn't affect the
> usefulness of the language too much.

Wrong.  Consider Java, even back from the very first version: it had
no dictionaries on which string might be keys, yet it still decided
to make its strings immutable.  This should make it obvious that the
interest of using keys as dict keys cannot possibly be the sole
motivation for the decision to make strings immutable in a language.
Rather, the deeper motivation is connected to wanting strings to be
ATOMIC, ELEMENTARY types, just like numbers; and to lots of useful
practical returns of that choice.  All you lose is the "ability" to
"confuse" (type-pun) between strings and arrays of bytes in many
situations, but that's an ability best lost in many cases.  It's not
an issue of "evil" -- a close-to-the-hardware low-level language
like C has excellent reasons to choose a different, close-to-HW
semantics -- but in a higher-level language I think Python's and
Java's choice to have strings immutable works better than (e.g.)
Perl's and Ruby's to have them mutable.


> Still, I can see a use for mutable strings. Or better, mutable binary
> data, made up of bytes. (where 'byte' is the smallest individually
> addressable memory unit blabla, ... you get the meaning. Just to not
> invite nit-pickers on that term.)

Just "import array" and you have your "mutable binary data made up
of bytes".  So, what's the problem?  Type-punning between THAT type,
and strings, is just not all that useful.


>> "explicit is better than implicit".
> 
> Yes, definitely: Let there be another type.

But, there IS one!  So, hat's wrong with it...?!


Alex




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Sep  4 16:49:37 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 20:49:37 GMT
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <yra3b.6546$Jh2.2048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <23891c90.0308280317.ac68b38@posting.google.com> <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <biqve2$qp0$1@panix1.panix.com> <87y8x6x2op.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1062541744.4844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj88h1$b2n$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:27:57 -0700, Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:

>Quoting John J. Lee (jjl at pobox.com):
>> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>> 
>> > In article <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg at speakeasy.net>,
>> [...]
>> > OTOH, Perens is also (like me ;-) a self-described asshole.  When I saw
>> > him at the Waterside Conference earlier this year, he basically claimed
>> > that only assholes could make significant progress in the Open Source
>> > community.
>> [...]
>> 
>> Why?
>
>I think the sentiment is just a variant on the "politicians always
>lie" theme. Open source is socio-political, and so it's the
>charismatics that succeed. "Asshole" is one manifestation of a strong
>personality.
I don't believe that. IMO the most obnoxious manifestations of "asshole"-ness
are due to *weak* personalities using powerful positions to over-compensate ;-/

An assertive maverick is not necessarily an "asshole" in my book, though
those threatened by such a personality will often be quick with that label.
(Note that assertiveness != bullying. Bullying is a hallmark behavior of "asshole"-hood).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From g_alleon at yahoo.fr  Wed Sep  3 08:00:39 2003
From: g_alleon at yahoo.fr (guillaume)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 05:00:39 -0700
Subject: reading large file
Message-ID: <9bd0dd3f.0309030400.7fa2dc0f@posting.google.com>

I have to read and process a large ASCII file containing a mesh : a
list of points and triangles.
The file is 100 MBytes.
 
I first tried to do it in memory but I think I am running out of
memory therefore I decide to use the shelve
module to store my points and elements on disks.
Despite the fact it is slow ... Any hint ? I think I have the same
memory problem but I don't understand why
since  my aPoint should be removed by the gc.

Have you any idea ?

Thanks

Guillaume

PS :
here is the code for your info




import string
import os
import sys
import time
import resource
import shelve
import psyco
 
psyco.full()
 
class point:
  def __init__(self,x,y,z):
    self.x = x
    self.y = y
    self.z = z
    
 
def SFMImport(filename):
  print 'UNV Import ("%s")' % filename
 
  db = shelve.open('points.db')
 
  file = open(filename, "r")
 
  linenumber = 1
  nbpoints   = 0
  nbfaces    = 0
 
  pointList = []
  faceList  = []
 
  line  = file.readline()
  words = string.split(line)
  nbpoints = string.atoi(words[1])
  nbtrias  = string.atoi(words[0])
 
  print "found %s points and %s triangles" % (nbpoints, nbtrias)
 
  t1 = time.time()
  for i in range(nbpoints):
    line  = file.readline()
    words = string.split(line)
 
    x = string.atof(words[1].replace("D","E"))
    y = string.atof(words[2].replace("D","E"))
    z = string.atof(words[3].replace("D","E"))
 
    aPoint = point(x, y, z)
 
    as = "point%s" % i
 
    if (i%250000 == 0):
      print "%7d points <%s>" % (i, time.time() - t1)
      t1 = time.time()
 
    db[as] = aPoint
 
  print "%s points read in %s seconds" % (nbpoints, time.time() - t1)
  bd.close()
 
  t1 = time.time()
  t2 = time.time()
  for i in range(nbtrias):
    line  = file.readline()
    words = string.split(line)
 
    i1    = string.atoi(words[0])
    i2    = string.atoi(words[1])
    i3    = string.atoi(words[2])
 
    faceList.append((i1,i2,i3))
 
    if (i%100000 == 0):
      print "%s faces <%s>" % (i, time.time() - t1)
      t1 = time.time()
 
  print "%s points read in %s seconds" % (nbpoints, time.time() - t2)
 
  file.close()
 
def callback(fs):
    filename = fs.filename
    UNVImport(filename)

              
if __name__ == "__main__":
#    try:
#        import GUI
#    except:
#        print "This script is only working with the new GUI module
..."
#    else:
#        fs = GUI.FileSelector()
#        fs.activate(callback, fs)
  print sys.argv[0]
  SFMImport(sys.argv[1])



From bobnotbob at byu.edu  Mon Sep 15 10:28:02 2003
From: bobnotbob at byu.edu (Bob Roberts)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 07:28:02 -0700
Subject: better use of os.system()
References: <c4e6b17d.0309140835.3408fc52@posting.google.com> <181d118be52ffabbbeaa120340c3f759@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <c4e6b17d.0309150628.40bc0a34@posting.google.com>

Fooman <fee at fee.com> wrote in message news:<181d118be52ffabbbeaa120340c3f759 at news.teranews.com>...
> > lower: not found
> > 
> > I want it to run "lower" just like it would if I typed "lower" at the
> > bash prompt.  How can I do that?
> 
> The problem is that the 'lower' script is not in the path that
> the python interpreter knows about.  You can do:
> 
> 	os.system("/my/nonstandard/pathto/lower")
> 
> or, if you are using Linux, or similar, you can try
> making sure that your $PATH variable is getting set to
> include the path to your script in the environment that
> the python interpreter gets launched in.
> 
> So, what platform are you running under, and what is the
> path to your 'lower' script, and what are the contents
> of your $PATH variable?


I am running under cygwin (it acts like linux in many respects), using
the cygwin-built version of python.  The path to "lower" is
~/bin/lower, and ~/bin is in my $PATH.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep 29 11:26:55 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:26:55 -0500
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <C30548A9-F240-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
References: <vndo742ca2f10@corp.supernews.com> <C30548A9-F240-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <20030929152649.GS32482@unpythonic.net>

First, whatever test you use, you should probably encapsulate it in a
function, so that if you need to update the definition you can do it at
one site instead of many:

    def isnumeric(x):
        return isinstance(x, (int, long, float))

You could have a registry of numeric types:

    _numeric_types = ()
    def register_numeric_type(t):
        global _numeric_types
        if t in _numeric_types: return
        _numeric_types += (t,)
    
    for value in (0, 0., 0l, 0j):
        register_numeric_type(type(value))

    def isnumeric(x):
        return isinstance(x, _numeric_types)

Now, if someone wants to write a vector type, it merely needs to be
registered.

You could test that common numeric operations work:
    def isnumeric(x):
        try:
            if x*1 == x and x+0 == x:
                return 1
        except TypeError:
            pass
        return 0

You could just run your code and let the eventual TypeError speak for
itself..  instead of
    def f(x):
        if not isnumeric(x): raise TypeError, "can't f() a %s" % type(x)
        return x*x
just write
    def f2(x):
        return x*x
The difference in the quality of the error message is not large:
    >>> f("")
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "<stdin>", line 2, in f
    TypeError: can't f() a <type 'str'>
    >>> f2("")
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "<stdin>", line 2, in f2
    TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for *: 'str' and 'str'

Jeff




From p at trick.lu  Sat Sep 20 15:42:16 2003
From: p at trick.lu (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:42:16 +0200
Subject: raw string
References: <petitmermet-7E9286.21104520092003@pfaff2-rz-fast.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <q7bpmv4ipank993i81u7c1nfa67ri7qdv3@4ax.com>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:10:46 +0200, Marc Petitmermet
<petitmermet at mat.ethz.ch> wrote:

>I can do the following replacement:
>
>r"kr\xdf6;ger".replace('\\','&#')
>-> 'kr&#xdf6;ger'
>
>But how can I do this using a variable which contains the above string? 
>Obviously, the following code returns not the string with replacement 
>but the name of the variable itself:
>
>name = "kr\xdf6;ger"
>r"name".replace('\\','&#')
>-> 'r"name"

name = r"kr\xdf6;ger" (the r goes here)
name.replace('\\','&#') (the name of the object must not be in quotes)

-PU



From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Mon Sep 29 02:26:16 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 23:26:16 -0700
Subject: write a file "copy" program in Python for Unix and Windows...
References: <rmMdb.366088$2x.112007@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309282226.3bf2fb5f@posting.google.com>

Hello Ben,

> I need to write a program to "copy" files and preserved the files'
> atime, mtime, ctime, file permissions. I also need to have this
> program working in Unix and Windows, where the "Archive"
> attribute on the file also has to be preserved (any more
> Windows idiosyncrasies?).
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-shutil.html

HTH.
Miki



From blunck at gst.com  Mon Sep  1 23:26:13 2003
From: blunck at gst.com (Christopher Blunck)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:26:13 -0400
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
References: <mailman.1062445743.2958.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.02.03.26.13.240018@gst.com>

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:46:41 -0400, tjlan wrote:

> Okay now im pretty sure this is really easy and pretty stupid but i need
> to create this. To make it simple ill use another program as an example. A
> guessing game that has an input field and button and an output field that
> can display w/e. I know this is really easy in c++ but it needs ot be done
> in python. Can anyone start me off here or give me a skeleton structure on
> this is supposed to be arranged. Thanx in advance.

My advice:

Drop $50 at the local bookstore and buy a copy of Python and Tkinter
Programming.  I was in your exact shoes a couple of weeks ago, and finally
threw up my hands in disgust looking for help.  The web had little info. 
The book as good examples.  I highly recommend it.


-c




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep 16 08:00:24 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:00:24 -0500
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <Law15-F26k5s6yonjH50001492d@hotmail.com>
References: <Law15-F26k5s6yonjH50001492d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030916120019.GA32713@unpythonic.net>

It is possible on the Tk end on X11.  Here's how you do it:

    from Tkinter import *
    import os

    t = Tk()
    f = Frame(t, container=1, width=300, height=300)
    f.pack()
    frame_id = f.winfo_id()

    os.system("/usr/X11R6/lib/xscreensaver/gears -window-id 0x%x &" % frame_id)

    t.mainloop()
The idea is this: You create a frame with -container and the desired
size for your app.  Then, you create the other app but tell it to use
the specific window-id as parent, instead of the root window.  Your task
is to figure out how to specify the equivalent of xscreensaver's
-window-id or Tk's Toplevel(use=) with PyGame.

If you're using Windows, I have no idea how or if this works.

Jeff




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 14:42:17 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:42:17 +0100
Subject: problem using urllib2: \n
References: <7cb14f9.0309230800.8d3a28b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F709409.6BC7B6F9@hotmail.com>

[bmiras at yahoo.com wrote]
> Here is an exemple of the piece of code I use:
> 
> import urllib2
> #Proxy handler
> proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" :
> "http://proxyuser:proxypassword at myproxy:8050"})

Might you need to change that URL? It looks like this URL indicates
that the proxy is running on port 8050 on host "myproxy".

Unless the host on which the proxy is running is named "myproxy", try
changing the proxy URL to one of the following values

http://proxyuser:proxypassword at localhost:8050
http://proxyuser:proxypassword at 127.0.0.1:8050

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Wed Sep 10 20:06:05 2003
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 17:06:05 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0309101606.37152c17@posting.google.com>

As for me, I'm currently using Emacs, but I'd love to find a nice IDE.
 I can't even use IDLE at work, sadly, some arcane problem with
upgrading Tcl/Tk on Solaris 5.3 machines, very annyoing.  But
generally, it seems like it would be a little pointless to review
IDLE.  Since it's included, everyone can try it at their leisure.  The
same pretty much applies for X/Emacs, it's been around so long now
that by this time anyone who is going to try it is probably already
using it.  Sure, have a paragraph about standard editing solutions and
mention them, but don't focus on them.  I'd prefer to see some reviews
of the other, less standard editors out there, especially ones with
GUI editors, that sounds kind of cool.  Emphasis on cross-platform
solutions would also be good, as I said I'm using Solaris here at
work, but Windows and Linux at home.  I'd love to find a great editor
for all three environments.  I look forward to seeing the article!



From hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de  Tue Sep 23 09:42:36 2003
From: hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 06:42:36 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <bkblav$u63$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309180950.30b44d89@posting.google.com> <jMmab.507800$uu5.85683@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <95b4b9ac.0309230542.78a5882a@posting.google.com>

> Only if all the sublists are of the same length, which is guaranteed for 
> a multi-dimensional array, but not for a list of lists.

This is a red herring.
 
> What do you expect a[;1] to return if a = [[], [1, 2, 3], [4], 5]?

Whatever error python returns if you ask, e.g., for (1,2,3)[4].

Hilde



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 23 06:15:27 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:15:27 GMT
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkicq0$vl5$0@216.39.172.122> <tyfvfrjhmsb.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <33Vbb.146289$R32.4736926@news2.tin.it>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
   ...
> Or, you could let _any_ (keywordless) function benefit from its own
> experience:

This "_any_ (keywordless) function" is a substantial overbid.  The
following implementation:

> # General memoizer: takes a function as returns another function which
> # has the same semantics as the original, but caches previously
> # calculated values
> def memoize(callable):
>     cache = {}
>     def proxy(*args):
>         try: return cache[args]
>         except KeyError: return cache.setdefault(args, callable(*args))
>     return proxy

only works for a "PURE" function (e.g., not random.random() nor time.time(),
even though both ARE obviously part of the "any keywordless function"
set!-) *WITHOUT* unhashable arguments (e.g., not the new built-in 'sum',
even though it IS pure when called with a list argument -- because when
it tries to index cache with the list as part of the key, you'll get a
TypeError).  Basically, it's fine if arguments (if any) are numbers,
strings, or hashable tuples, but it would be pushing your luck A LOT to
use it in any other case -- it's particularly dangerous, because you
will get a silent misbehavior, in a case such as:

class Foo:
    def __init__(self, x=0, y=0):
        self.x=x
        self.y=y

def xplusy(somefoo):
    return somefoo.x + somefoo.y

f = Foo()
print xplusy(f)
f.x = 23
print xplusy(f)

# so far so good, but now...:
xplusy = memoize(xplusy)
print xplusy(f)
# still LOOKS fine, but, check this out...:
f.y = 100
print xplusy(f)
# OOPS!  xplusy's "memory" is now subtly incorrect...!!!


Unfortunately f "is hashable" (because it doesn't define a __cmp__)
but is NOT immutable, and xplusy, while pure, DOES depend on some
attributes of its (mutable) argument.  The resulting behavior may
be rather unexpected, and, indeed, a subtle bug indeed to find...


Alex




From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Sep 26 04:54:52 2003
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:54:52 +0100
Subject: Turning Strings into Functions
References: <46610d4e.0309251516.45a8eb01@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl0usu$j5g@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Freddy" <freddycooper01 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46610d4e.0309251516.45a8eb01 at posting.google.com...

> How do you turn a string into a callable function? I'm writing a
> program which takes user input and then looks up the associated
> function to run from a shelved dictionary.

I see you have an answer already, so I'll give you a question.
Is there any particular reason why you are storing the name
of the function in the dictionary rather than the function itself?

i.e. myDict["Case1"] = {"desc":"This is Case1", "func1": Handler1} etc






From xucs007 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 08:40:12 2003
From: xucs007 at yahoo.com (Xu, C.S.)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 05:40:12 -0700
Subject: How to make URLLIB .urlopen(url1) .urlopen(url2) session related ?
References: <8f41cfd.0309130423.22054528@posting.google.com> <3F631C0C.2AAA08CF@engcorp.com> <87vfrw9u23.fsf@pobox.com> <Xns93F62417D43ADJanC@213.118.75.228>
Message-ID: <8f41cfd.0309170440.caa80ff@posting.google.com>

ClientCookie works great with ebay, and a few other sites I'm interested.

I'd like to donate a few bucks for the author to buy several cups of
coffee during writing more interesting python modules. Where should I
send the money to? Paypal, or check?

ClientCookie will save me a lot time, guaranteed!



From donn at drizzle.com  Tue Sep 23 02:26:23 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:26:23 -0000
Subject: Mailbox cleaner on an IMAP basis?
References: <3f6f2cfb@news.swissonline.ch> <vmuhsrr68tlj27@news.supernews.com> <3f6fdd8e@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <1064298380.225028@yasure>

Quoth "F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at>:

| I've stopped here, because I could not figure out how to get at the ids of
| mails with attachments. And if I had that missing link, I'd run into the
| next hindrance: How can I delete a single message? IMAP4::delete() deletes a
| whole mailbox, not just a single mail.
|
| So my code really is only a few lines so far:
|
| i = IMAP4(myDomain)
| i.login(myUser, myPassword)
| i.select() # Select INBOX
| r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS])") # Check 1st mail
|
| Seems I have to get a book about IMAP and how to use it...

The IMAP4rev1 RFC of course covers these things, with examples.
2060, I think it is.  A message takes two steps to delete:  first,
set a \Deleted flag on it, and then invoke expunge on the folder,
which will remove all delete-flagged messages in the folder.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Sep 13 20:37:25 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:37:25 -0500
Subject: stripping a string
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <20030914003725.GB7424@unpythonic.net>

If you want to remove all digits from the string, then use
str.translate, not regular expressions:
    import string
    identity_transformation = string.maketrans('', '')
	
    def remove_digits(s):
	return s.translate(identity_transformation, string.digits)

>>> s = 'ANL LN32'
>>> remove_digits(s)	
'ANL LN'

If you want to remove digits from the end of the string, then use
str.strip(), not a regular expression:
>>> s.rstrip(string.digits)
'ANL LN'

Jeff




From wt at nic.fi  Mon Sep 15 01:57:25 2003
From: wt at nic.fi (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:57:25 +0300
Subject: Encoding problems with DCOracle2
In-Reply-To: <bk2n9b$jsk$07$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <ro49b.6833$ZB4.4248@reader1.news.jippii.net> <bk2n9b$jsk$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Utc9b.6898$ZB4.1368@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Timo Virkkala wrote:
>>I'm having some trouble with Python2.2 and DCOracle2. I'm successfully
>>executing a query, and getting the result I'm hoping for - with an added
>>bonus of some interesting encoding. The beginning of the result set I
>>get looks like this:
>>
>>[['\x00A\x001', '\x00M\x00i\x00k\x00e\x00
>>\x00P\x00o\x00r\x00t\x00n\x00o\x00y', None, None,
>>'\x00d\x00r\x00u\x00m\x00s'], ...
> 
> Seems you are getting unicode from the db. Here's how to convert it to
> latin1:
> 
> >>>unicode('\x00P\x00o\x00r\x00t\x00n\x00o\x00y', 'utf-16-be').encode('latin1')
> 'Portnoy'

Thanks, that solved it! Now, it feels like I'm treating a symptom here, 
not the cause. Is there a way to set the database (Oracle 9i) to send me 
something else than Unicode?

-- 
Timo Virkkala | wt at nic.fi

   "In the battle between you and the world, bet on the world."




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 25 09:57:59 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:57:59 +0100
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <3F72F467.191601A7@hotmail.com>

[Invalid User wrote]
> While trying to print a none empty list, I accidentaly put an "else"
> statement with a "for" instead of "if". Here is what I had:

>From the Python Language Reference 

"""
The for statement 

for_stmt  ::=  "for" target_list "in" expression_list ":" suite 
    ["else" ":" suite] 

The expression list is evaluated once; it should yield a sequence. The
suite is then executed once for each item in the sequence, in the
order of ascending indices. Each item in turn is assigned to the
target list using the standard rules for assignments, and then the
suite is executed. When the items are exhausted (which is immediately
when the sequence is empty), the suite in the else clause, if present,
is executed, and the loop terminates. 
"""

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/for.html

A quick glance through the archives confirms that this has been the
case since at least python 1.4:-

http://www.python.org/doc/1.4/ref/ref7.html#HDR2

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From grante at visi.com  Tue Sep 16 19:17:59 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 23:17:59 GMT
Subject: App development for Sharp Zaurus PDA using QTopia?
References: <3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <mailman.1063750224.23114.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f679a27$0$173$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1063750224.23114.python-list at python.org>, Phil Thompson wrote:

>> I see there's a Python binary package available for the Sharp
>> Zaurus PDA.  Has anybody deleloped an app for that platform?
>> I'm wondering if the resource requirement of Python are a
>> problem on that platform.
> 
> http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/zaurus/download.php

Yup.  That's the package to which I was referring.  I was
wondering if anybody had any experience with it which they
would like to relate -- especially regarding the memory
footprint of a python app.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  MY income is ALL
                                  at               disposable!
                               visi.com            



From selwyn at home.net.nz  Fri Sep  5 20:35:42 2003
From: selwyn at home.net.nz (selwyn)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 12:35:42 +1200
Subject: Packaging?
In-Reply-To: <abc3fdd3.0309051611.6dd16bf7@posting.google.com>
References: <abc3fdd3.0309051611.6dd16bf7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dX96b.4178$cg.203950@news02.tsnz.net>

Kris Caselden wrote:
> Particularly in Windows, how do create installation packages for
> python scripts? I've noticed that PyOpenGL and PyGame use a pretty
> nice installer, and some games I've seen install and run without even
> needing python installed. How is this done?

First you need to create an executable, which gets around the need for a 
separate python installation -
check out py2exe:
starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

For an easy and free installer try Inno Setup:
http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php




From my at mail.ru  Wed Sep  3 08:26:00 2003
From: my at mail.ru (Kerim)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:26:00 +0400
Subject: test passed
Message-ID: <3f55ddda@shknews01>

Kerim





From uce at ftc.gov  Sat Sep 20 13:40:39 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:40:39 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings
Message-ID: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>

Has anyone suggested introducing a mutable string type (yes, of course) 
and distinguishing them from standard strings by the quote type - single 
or double? As far as I know ' and " are currently interchangeable in all 
circumstances (as long as they're paired) so there's no overloading to 
muddy the language. Of course there could be some interesting problems 
with current code that doesn't make a distinction, but it would be dead 
easy to fix with a search-and-replace. And which would be the default 
return type for functions returning strings...
It looks like there are ways of handling this by digging around in the 
modules for more basic types, but it would be much nicer to have it 
available at 'user level'.




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 10 03:49:00 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:49:00 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjml1l$fd9$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Marco Herrn wrote:

> 1. How to do the import? I didn't find a way to give a string to the
>    import statement.
> 
> 2. How to write such code to instantiate?

Off topic: This thread like some others is spread over a few toplevel
entries in my newsreader (KNode 0.7.2). Is this a bug?

Anyway, putting it all together:

import sys

def getClass(classname, modulename):
    try:
        module = sys.modules[modulename]
    except KeyError:
        module = __import__(modulename)
    return getattr(module, classname)

print getClass("WichmannHill", "random")
print getClass("WichmannHill", "random")()


Peter



From interstar at postmaster.co.uk  Sun Sep 21 09:09:38 2003
From: interstar at postmaster.co.uk (phil)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 06:09:38 -0700
Subject: python cgi problem with method = post
References: <d7825a3e.0309191202.dc02042@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d7825a3e.0309210509.75748d8e@posting.google.com>

(hopefully) any answers?

...

interstar at postmaster.co.uk (phil) wrote in message news:<d7825a3e.0309191202.dc02042 at posting.google.com>...
> This is a quick plea on something that has me stumped.
> 
> I have a python script importing "cgi"
> 
> I developed my script on a local machine using method = get for
> uploading form data.
> 
> My code worked locally and on the hosting service I'm using.
> 
> I changed to using method = post
> 
> On my local machine this change works transparently.
> 
> On my hosting service's machine, all the values that the form returns
> to the script are now empty.
> 
> So, I don't expect anyone to be able to answer this ... but what
> *kind* of thing should I be looking for? Is it to do with versions of
> python (2.1.3 locally, 2.2 remotely) or "cgi"? Or the webserver (I'm
> using Apache on Debian locally, I suspect my host is Apache on Red Hat
> 7.1)
> 
> Is it something I haven't thought of?
> 
> cheers
> 
> phil jones



From pnu at ukfsn.org  Thu Sep 25 11:55:44 2003
From: pnu at ukfsn.org (Peter Nuttall)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:55:44 +0100
Subject: send email
In-Reply-To: <003101c3836b$56b72b90$1603a8c0@pc22>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEBF99AB@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com> <003101c3836b$56b72b90$1603a8c0@pc22>
Message-ID: <200309251655.44478.pnu@ukfsn.org>

On Thursday 25 Sep 2003 2:45 pm, Alberto Vera wrote:
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I'd like to explain the problem to get a better idea about this.
>
> A python program check every minute if a value is 0 in a register on a
> database. In this case using Python, it'll send an email.
>

I am not sure how to do the checking part but the email part would look like 
this:

# this module is for sending email
import smtplib

#this module is needed for making message-IDs

#change message string to the message you want
#no longer than 78 letters

message = 'test message'

#adds headers to email

#change these to what you want
fromaddr=raw_input('what is the from address ')
toaddrs=raw_input('what is the to address ')
subject=raw_input('what is the subject ')
sever=raw_input('what is the smtp sever you are using ')
timesend=strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S +0000", gmtime())
#msg-id maker
#change lupin to the name of your computer

setime=localtime()
x=0
msg_id=''
while x<5:
    msg_id=msg_id+str(setime[x]) 
    x=x+1
msg_id = msg_id + '@lupin'


finalmessage = 'From: '+fromaddr +'\r\n'+ 'To: '+toaddrs 
finalmessage = finalmessage +'\r\n'+ 'Subject: '+ subject +'\r\n' + 'Date: ' + 
timesend
finalmessage = finalmessage + '\r\n' +'Message-ID: ' + msg_id + '\r\n' + '\r
\n' +message


#code for sending email
server = smtplib.SMTP(sever)
server.set_debuglevel(1)
server.sendmail(fromaddr, toaddrs, finalmessage)
server.quit()
this code is chunky and will need changing to just what you want. 

look at the smtplib docs, the rfc2822 standard (email), and what Riccardo 
Galli had to say about my email program

pete
-- 
Someone esle can help you better than I can.

Every time I think that perhaps we are an advanced race, I turn around and 
read ramblings on Slashdot, and realize I was wrong.





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 09:32:15 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:32:15 -0400
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr> <9egemvkhp2s55horjr9dfveml22158d62g@4ax.com> <bk7lfj$v5p$1@bagan.srce.hr> <3F67606B.C9A89EF3@engcorp.com> <bk7nlb$5jp$1@bagan.srce.hr> <3F676AAB.92479235@engcorp.com> <bk9h4m$q3p$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <3F68625F.984871CE@engcorp.com>

Ivan Voras wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Ivan Voras wrote:
> 
> >> I know that. I was just wandering if they also behave faster. Lists
> >> are only interesting to me in case I need mutability.
> >
> > I'd suggest you have that backwards.  Lists should _always_ be
> > interesting
> > to you.  Tuples should be interesting only in the case where you need
> > *immutability*.
> 
> I disagree. :) I would always use tuples except when I explicitely need
> mutability. That doesn't meen that I would intentionaly (badly) restructure
> code just to use tuples, only that in many cases my structures don't need to
> be modified.

That's your personal choice, I suppose, and I won't try any more to dissuade
you any more except to point out that most Python programmers, I believe, do 
not see tuples as their first choice, but use them only in certain special cases.

I could be wrong.  It happens.  ;-)

-Peter



From p at d.com  Fri Sep 12 07:50:13 2003
From: p at d.com (pd)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:50:13 +0100
Subject: Web server with Python
In-Reply-To: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com>
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1063367412.97175.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>

How about skunkweb? I haven't used this, in fact I'm only just getting 
into python at the moment. Perhaps someone with experience can comment 
on this app...
To quote the site, skunkweb ... "is an extensible, scalable and easy to 
use application server written in Python"

hth

Paul.
p3d AT yahoo dot co dot uk


Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> Hi all, 
> after my unsuccessful try to run Apache 2 with mod_python and Python
> 2.3, I am looking for an alternative approach.
> My aim is to write a small web-based application:
> 
> Python
> - the solution must be based / usable on Python 2.3
> 
> Portability
> Targeted plaforms are
> - Windows 2000 Server
> - Windows XP Pro
> - AIX 5.1
> 
> Webserver:
> - supporting up to 50 concurrent client connections
> - must be able to use Python 2.3 to create dynamic pages
> I can think of 3 alternatives to Apache:
> - Medusa
> - Twisted
> - Zope
> Which one is the easiest to work with? Which one is known to work on an
> AIX 5.1 platform, for instance?
> 
> Persistent storage
> - Is ZODB easily usable from outside Python, i.e. to produce reports
> without reverting to programming?
> - Is MySQL with Python a good combination?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> -PU




From lk at digicart.hu  Fri Sep 19 04:55:02 2003
From: lk at digicart.hu (Ladvánszky Károly)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:55:02 GMT
Subject: Access to Win API
Message-ID: <d541d61d12758a2b45ea1de78809beac@news.meganetnews.com>

What is the best way to access Win API functions that are not present in the
various extension packages. Is writing a C extension the only solution?
Thanks for any help.

K?roly





From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 16:06:42 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:06:42 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
References: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com> <bj5b4g$jtg$1@news.hananet.net> <eoselvguf3hvie3s95kjndhtuno0jiu09s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bj861h$hh5$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou" <tzot at sil-tec.gr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:eoselvguf3hvie3s95kjndhtuno0jiu09s at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:15:16 +0900, rumours say that "Changjune Kim"
> <juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net> might have written:
>
> >(I'm interested to see his "extremely fast" text widget, too)
>
> Notice that Michael Peuser described an "extremely fast" "binary
> editor"; I assume a dual view (hex / chars) one.  This is not a text
> widget --you don't have to account for line feeds and variable width
> characters :)

Exactly! Most of the time of general text edit or table widgets stays in
   .font.measure()
You will get an immediate speed up if you use fixed size fonts and just use
the string length for computations. I am looking for a postable short
version of my editor (I remember I started with something less 100 lines. It
grew of course ;-) Maybe I even should install a nice homepage - if I had
the time...

Kindly
Michael P






From wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net  Sun Sep  7 11:56:07 2003
From: wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net (John Hall)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:56:07 GMT
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062938172.20708.python-list@python.org> <87vfs4mxgg.fsf@voodoo.fake>
Message-ID: <v4lmlvkav0fui6trcj39khbevvm9u1u8eh@4ax.com>

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 17:26:23 +0200, Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com>
wrote:

>Zeldman's post about the new version:
>http://zeldman.com/daily/0803a.shtml#validator


When I view _this_ site in IE6, it has low-contrast text in a small
size, which "view|text size" cannot change.
 
-- 
John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net>
Cochrane, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"



From job at webde-ag.de  Wed Sep 17 10:25:16 2003
From: job at webde-ag.de (Joerg Beyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:25:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: script to visualize python profiling data with kcachegrind
References: <bk9kok$7nh$2@news.web.de> <87k787zely.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bk9qsc$8ol$1@news.web.de>

John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> Much more important, we can now generate lots of pretty graphics from
> our Python code ;-)

my graphs dont fit on a single page of paper - if you find a
nice way to print the graphviz graphs on many pages, please 
let me know.

    Joerg
-- 
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability.
                         Edsger W. Dijkstra



From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Thu Sep 25 04:49:31 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 01:49:31 -0700
Subject: getting a value from a web-page
References: <mailman.1064454334.1269.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0309250049.2f06b7d5@posting.google.com>

> Is it possible to get a row from a text-file? This text-file is located 
> in a web page.

I'm not sure exactly what it is you are trying to achieve, but you
might be able to use the urllib() module to download the file. I
recall the existence of a module which can efficiently extract
specified rows from a text file - but, alas, I don't recall its name.
But it wouldn't be strictly necessary, anyway.

> And a value from an excel located in a web-server? (Sheet1!cell A1)

Do you mean an excel file located on your server, or somebody else's
server? If it is on your server, you could manipulate the file
directly using Mark Hammond's excellent win32all:
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

A typical piece of python code to manipulate Excel is:

# this example starts Excel, creates a new workbook, 
# puts some text in the first and second cell
# closes the workbook without saving the changes
# and closes Excel.  This happens really fast, so
# you may want to comment out some lines and add them
# back in one at a time ... or do the commands interactively


from win32com.client import Dispatch


xlApp = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
xlApp.Visible = 1
xlApp.Workbooks.Add()
xlApp.ActiveSheet.Cells(1,1).Value = 'Python Rules!'
xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.ActiveSheet.Cells(1,2).Value = 'Python Rules 2!'
xlApp.Close(SaveChanges=0)
xlApp.Quit()
del xlApp

# raw_input("press Enter ...")



From lk at digicart.hu  Thu Sep 18 08:30:52 2003
From: lk at digicart.hu (Ladvánszky Károly)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:30:52 GMT
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c62bb15f8a159c4bd7d96c5f1a5d96e7@news.meganetnews.com>

Try this.

def f(n):
  return n*2

def t(fnc_prm, n):
  return fnc_prm(n)

t(f, 2)

I hope it helps.

K?roly


"Kasper B. Graversen" <kbilsted at it-c.dk> az al?bbiakat ?rta a k?vetkezo
h?r?zenetben: 9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68 at posting.google.com...
> Having played with Smalltalk for the past month, I'm getting used to
> passing code as arguments to methods... how easy is it to do this in
> python? I haven't seen any recent postings on this subject here...
>
> \kasper





From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Fri Sep  5 04:27:42 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:57:42 +0530
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <ouoexzbpxd.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "Sophie" == Sophie All?on <alleon at club-internet.fr> writes:

> for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
> string while I want it
> to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?

The key can be any immutable object. So key can be a tuple. For example you
can do 

------------------------------
mydict = {}

mydict[((1,2),(2,3))] = ...
------------------------------

You can even use your own class as a key. So to make it more readable, you
can do something like

---------------------------------------
class Edge:
    def __init__(self, point1, point2):
        self.point1 = point1
        self.point2 = point2

p1 = (1,2)
p2 = (2,3)
e = Edge(p1, p2)
mydict[e] = ...
---------------------------------------

You get the idea :-)

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R 




From dave at nullcube.com  Tue Sep 30 23:50:44 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:50:44 +1000
Subject: "for" with "else"?
In-Reply-To: <f%reb.10797$NX3.1826@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn61legdn9jf56@news.supernews.com> <2c9knv86m1il4ajng85655dm7u5j5b992i@4ax.com> <vnkds7nbjf8420@news.supernews.com> <f%reb.10797$NX3.1826@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031001035043.GA2564@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

Andrew Dalke (adalke at mindspring.com):
> John Roth:
> > I don't see what exceptions have to do with it. There are three
> > special ending cases: with break, empty sequence and sequence
> > exhausted. Empty sequence is the only one that isn't handled easily.
> 
> Could you give an example of when you would actually use an
> 'empty_sequence' in the real world?  It's never been a problem
> for me (that I can recall) where that distinction was important.

Mmm, I think I agree with Andrew here.  In the event that you
want to specifically check whether a sequence is empty wouldn't you
want to simply make that an explicit discovery call ?

eg.

if (len(seq) > 1):
    for ...

else:
    print 'No items in sequence'

It makes more sense to me to have an explicit discovery of a lack of
items, rather than have a situation where we have the implication that
to loop over an empty sequence is incorrect.

Dave




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Wed Sep 10 15:37:38 2003
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:37:38 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <200309091256.25160.gherron@islandtraining.com>
References: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake> <200309091256.25160.gherron@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <20030910193738.GB2136@darkstar.localdomain.fake>

Hi,

On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 12:56:25PM -0700, Gary Herron wrote:
> The imp module has what you want.  

I already found the imp module and thought it was what I was searching
for, but it didn't work to me as I expected.

> find_module(name[, path])
>   Try to find the module name on the search path path.

That didn't work, because I didn't know how to specify the path. It
always said something about "ImportError: No frozen submodule".

> load_module(name, file, filename, description)
>   Load a module that was previously found by find_module()

I also tried this, but didn't know how to use it. I didn't know what the
parameters mean and the doc wasn't verbose enough to me.

But the way Nick and Chad pointed to me are totally perfect in my case.
So I will use these.

Marco

-- 
Ein fester Satz an Vorurteilen ist ausgesprochen praktisch. Er
erspart einem das Nachdenken.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736




From lists at webcrunchers.com  Sun Sep  7 19:42:54 2003
From: lists at webcrunchers.com (John D.)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:42:54 -0700
Subject: Python web site redesign -thoughts
Message-ID: <v03110702bb816e29759d@[192.168.0.2]>

After reading all the posts about the web site redesign I have some thoughts on ways to reduce the stresses here.

The web site has at least three very different components:
  Appearance
  Content
  Coding

The skill sets are different enough they might best be done by three different groups with expertise in each. The artists are in the first, the planners who decide what the site should contain in the second, and the people who decide how much CSS/XHTML/script/etc. go in it in the third group.

To grasp what the site should be like, I'd ask: what groups should it serve?

  Developers/programmers?
  Media?
  Curious people not yet using Python?
  Bug reporters?

What do each of these groups seek?

What do people actually visit the site for? I use the Python web site frequently, almost always to use the online manuals (which I often find frustrating), and occasionally to download the language.

"Opinions are like assholes -everyone has one."






From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Sep  5 15:34:20 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:34:20 -0300 
Subject: Why python???
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382EBD@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- I don't think so much Python will improve our world. There 
#- are strong forces
#- (not only $$$) enforcing the use of other languages like 
#- Java (the COBOL of
#- the 21st century), C++, C# (both quite similar to Java), a 
#- little bit PHP 4
#- here and there and - of course! - still C (the machine 
#- independent assembly
#- language).
#- 
#- If you ever want to use your programming skills to earn 
#- money, become expert
#- in one of those.

I seem to hear somebody talking about Linux back in 1993...

.	Facundo




From shane at zope.com  Thu Sep 11 14:50:02 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:50:02 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <3F60B545.6030100@sci.fi>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <3F60B545.6030100@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <3F60C3DA.6070409@zope.com>

[Moved to python-list at python.org, where this thread belongs]

Harri Pesonen wrote:
> But my basic message is this: Python needs to be made thread safe. 
> Making the individual interpreters thread safe is trivial, and benefits 
> many people, and is a necessary first step; making threads within 
> interpreter thread safe is possible as well, at least if you leave 
> something for the developer, as you should, as you do in every other 
> programming language as well.

Lately, I've been considering an alternative to this line of thinking. 
I've been wondering whether threads are truly the right direction to 
pursue.  This would be heresy in the Java world, but maybe Pythonistas 
are more open to this thought.

The concept of a thread is composed of two concepts: multiple processes 
and shared memory.  Supporting multiple simultaneous processes is 
relatively simple and has proven value.  Shared memory, on the other 
hand, results in a great number of complications.  Some of the 
complications have remained difficult problems for a long time: 
preventing deadlocks, knowing exactly what needs to be locked, finding 
race conditions, etc.  I don't believe we should force the burden of 
thread safety on every software engineer.  Engineers have better things 
to do.

At the same time, shared memory is quite valuable when you're ready to 
take on the burden of thread safety.  Therefore, I'm looking for a good 
way to split a process into multiple processes and share only certain 
parts of a program with other processes.  I'd like some form of 
*explicit* sharing with a Pythonic API.

Imagine the following Python module:


import pseudothreads

data = pseudothreads.shared([])

def data_collection_thread():
     s = get_some_data()
     data.append(s)

for n in range(4):
     pseudothreads.start_new_thread(data_collection_thread)


In this made-up example, nothing is shared between threads except for 
the "data" global.  The shared() function copies the list to shared 
memory and returns a wrapper around the list that prevents access by 
multiple threads simultaneously.  start_new_thread() is a thin wrapper 
around os.fork().  Each pseudothread has its own global interpreter lock.

I wonder whether others would consider such a thing valuable, or even 
feasible. :-)

Shane





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 16:15:44 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:15:44 -0400
Subject: FIFO problems
In-Reply-To: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624506@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>
Message-ID: <CGECIJPNNHIFAJKHOLMAAEJKGPAA.sholden@holdenweb.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pettersen, Bjorn S [mailto:BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:33 PM
> To: Steve Holden; python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: FIFO problems
> 
> 
> > From: Steve Holden [mailto:sholden at holdenweb.com] 
> > 
> > "Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote ...
> > > "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in
> > > news:tJZ7b.67$o71.53 at news2.central.cox.net:
> > >
> [...]
> > > >
> > > > while 1:
> > > >     line = serverIn.readline()
> > > >     if not line:
> > > >         break
> > > >     del line[:-1]
> > > >     if line == "bla":
> > > >         do something incredibly interesting
> > > >     else:
> > > >         print line
> > >
> > > Untested is right. Your 'del' statement is a little bit too 
> > > destructive, or at least it would be if strings were mutable.
> > >
> > :-) Well, I can only remind myself that "the person who never 
> > made a mistake never made anything".
> > 
> > > Here's my (equally untested) alternative:
> > >
> > > for line in serverIn:
> > >     line = line[:-1]
> > >     if line == "bla":
> > >         do something incredibly interesting
> > >     else:
> > >         print line
> > >
> > 
> > Unfortunately this doesn't include the end-of-file test [...]
> 
> .. the iterator doesn't?
> 
No, my brain doesn't.

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Interview with GvR August 14, 2003       http://www.onlamp.com/python/







From jroznfgre at jngpugbjreQBGbet.cy  Mon Sep 15 07:13:33 2003
From: jroznfgre at jngpugbjreQBGbet.cy (JZ)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:13:33 +0200
Subject: caching the sql queries
References: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com> <mailman.1063623379.20087.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ql7bmvonghumdt5qkcn06bigpaa4g7m6rm@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:55:15 +0200, "Luca Calderano"
<calderano at sgaspa.it> wrote:

>>Is there any equivalent of caching sql queries for Python like ADOdb
>>for PHP? (For those who did not hear about ADODb and its feature :
>>http://phplens.com/adodb/caching.of.recordsets.html)
>
>The Only way is using Com

What do you mean?

--
JZ



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep  8 20:42:47 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:42:47 -0400
Subject: Python Port to Swiss Ephemeris (swe_houses) Bug Report/Workaround
References: <734b753f.0309081421.1a1e180@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlq8gbru2981c8@news.supernews.com>

The problem appears to be in the _wrap_swe_houses
function.

In the following routine (about halfway down the function)

        if (myhsys==71) ohcusps=PyList_New(37);
        else ohcusps=PyList_New(13);
        for (i = 0; i < myhsys; i++)
        {
            PyObject *otmp = PyFloat_FromDouble(myhcusps[i]);
            PyList_SetItem(ohcusps,i,otmp);
        }

the if statement is incorrect. It will iterate 71 times,
while it should iterate either 13 or 37 times, depending
on the value of the house system paramter.

This will overlay memory, causing all kinds of not
very interesting problems.

You need to report this to the author.

John Roth

"Dave" <bluheaven2 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:734b753f.0309081421.1a1e180 at posting.google.com...
> ========================================================
> Python Port to Swiss Ephemeris (swe_houses) Bug Report/Workaround
> ========================================================
>
> I don't know if anyone else has had programming problems with
> the Python Port to the Swiss Ephemeris in the vault, but I have
> just encountered an 'index error' bug caused by using the
> swe_houses function.  I did everything I possibly could think of
> to figure out why I was getting an 'index error' in one of my loops
> which happened to immediately follow the use of the swe_houses
> function.  After trying everything under the moon, I discovered that
> when I deleted the house calculation that preceded the loop, it
> worked fine.  It didn't even matter whether the loop had anything
> to do with the swe_house calculation or data that it returned.
> The use of that function in the program completely disabled the
> use of any loop following the use of the function by invoking an
> 'index error' saying the list assignment is not possible.
>
> I wondered if it was a Python language bug, so I removed my
> Python 2.2.2 and upgraded to 2.2.3, and the bug still existed.
> Then I spent the better half of a day trying everything under
> the sun to get around the error.  The first very early on solution
> to the problem was quickly discovered since the problem
> apparently goes away as soon as you try to figure out what is
> going wrong with your loop.  Any programmer's first inclination
> when debuging a loop would be to throw a few print statements
> in there to view the values of the variables.  Well, it turns out,
> just the simple use of a print statement causes the bug to go
> away in >IDLE<.  I have no idea why, and it boggles my mind
> why including the statement "Print '' " somewhere after the
> swe_house calculation would stop the bug.
>
> Anyway, so, the typical programmer using the Python Port
> and IDLE will quickly solve this apparent 'index error' problem
> when they go throwing in print statements to figure out what
> is causing the problem.
>
> BUT, if you however want to run your script at the command
> prompt using the DOS window, the print statement won't solve
> the problem, and you will continue getting an 'index error'
> after your house calculation.  After trying every possible
> combination of things to do in a loop to try to work around
> the bug for the command prompt, I discovered that there is
> nothing you can do to reformat the loop to make it work like
> a normal loop.
>
> The immediate problem in an astrological program doesn't
> have to do with the fact that it disables the use of a loop
> after using the function.  The immediate problem is shown
> when you attempt to manipulate or compare the data returned
> from the swe_houses calculation.  Not only does it disable the
> use of a loop after house calculation, but the data that it returns
> appears 'corrupt' in that when you attempt to compare it to
> values to determine the degrees & signs, it will give you the
> same index error again.
>
> For example, here is a simple house calculation:
>
> HouZodDegs = swe_houses(julday, lat, lng, 'k')
> <A loop after this statement will produce below error>
> "IndexError: list assignment index out of range"
>
> So, not only do you have problem with a loop after this
> calculation, but when you try to evaluate the returned data,
> you will also get this error (even if you're not manipulating
> or evaluating any lists at the time).
>
> I also found out that you CAN compare the apparently
> corrupt house degrees returned in the function as long as
> your comparison is LESS THAN the returned zodiac degrees.
> Otherwise, it will give you the index error.  For example,
> if you put these statements after your calculation:
>
> if HouZodDegs[0] < 0: Signs.append('ar')
> if HouZodDegs[0] < 360: Signs.append('ar')
>
> you won't get an error for the first one, but you will get
> an error for the second. Why? *shrug*  These are just
> the facts I'm reporting, and it's up to someone else to
> figure out what is causing the problem (if they want to
> spend the time).
>
> So, any statement evaluating the data returned from the
> swe_houses function must be LESS THAN the zodiac
> degrees returned. And since the results will vary from
> anywhere within 360 degrees... some quite small and
> some quite large, there is no way to evaluate the data
> without getting the error.
>
> So, where is the precious workaround you said you found?
> Well, after a day of reformatting the loops and reformatting
> the evaluations, I figured out there is no format that will
> not produce the error.  In order to calculate the houses
> in a program, you will of course need to compare the
> values of the results with other numbers, and in the course
> of doing this, the results will always eventually be LESS
> THAN a certain value you specify.  There is no workaround
> to this to prevent it from erroring.
>
> SO, once I figured out that the error was inevitable, I started
> experimenting with the TRY command... and trying to handle
> the error as it happens in the program.  I then figured out that
> it was possible to figure out what sign the HouZodDegs was
> in based upon where it errored in a list of evaluations.  If
> it errored on a certain interval, you could then determine
> which sign was on the house cusp. It worked!
>
> Then I found out that I don't even need to really use this loop
> for the meat of what I was doing.  I found out that the way
> to "beat the bug" was to just acknowledge it, let it go, and
> then go on with the program.  So, I figured out that all you
> need to do is put the following code after your house
> calculation statement:
>
>         firstdegree = HouCspDegs[0]
>         try:
>             if firstdegree < 361: bug = 1
>         except: bug = 0
>
> The above code assigns the first house cusp degree to the
> variable 'firstdegree'.  Then it trys to evaluate it against a
> value which it most definitely will be less than (361).  If it
> can do this, it assigns 'bug' to 1, but if it can't do it (it won't
> be able to do it!) then it will assign 'bug' to 0.  Now that you
> have assigned 'bug' to 0, you will not have any more index
> errors, and you can manipulate/evaluate the rest of the
> house results.  This workaround works in both IDLE and the
> command prompt.  The print workaround only will work
> in IDLE.  As to why these workarounds work, I have no idea,
> but they do.  I would like to hear from anyone who have had
> similar problems using the Python Port to the Swiss
> Ephemeris... or anyone else who would like to explain why
> these workarounds work.  Or finally anyone who actually
> knows a way to get rid of the bug altogether.  Thanks,
> and I hope I saved someone a day of debugging with
> this post. -Dave





From sylphaleya at hta.fhz.ch  Tue Sep  9 10:20:09 2003
From: sylphaleya at hta.fhz.ch (Manuel Huesser)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:20:09 +0200
Subject: Unicode Newbie
Message-ID: <20030909162009.0247ce9d.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch>

The unicode function implies that you only can use 2 ** 16 chars
(unichr supports only this range) but with a given encoding e.g.
unicode(",,,", "utf-8") i should be able to encode
up to 2** 31 chars.

"\xfc\x12\x12\x12\x12\x12\x12" is an example for a 7
byte utf-8 string. But on encoding i get the following
error:

UTF-8 decoding error: unsupported Unicode code range

Is there any possibility to do the job?

Manuel



From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Mon Sep 29 16:43:45 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:43:45 -0400
Subject: write to log file
In-Reply-To: <bla3fj$5ee$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bla3fj$5ee$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <3F789981.5060508@zephyrfalcon.org>

Tom wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a log file and of course I want to add the new information to the 
> end of that log file. Unfortunately I always delete the old information 
> and only append the current info.
> 
> Right now I do it like this:
> I call a module which consists of a class and a function. It actually 
> doesn't matter, but I just included it for the sake of completeness.
> The module looks like this:
> 
> class log_C:
>   def errorlog(self, filename, Data, d):
>       LogFile = file(filename, 'w')
>       ErrorInfo = Data[d+1]
>       LogFile.write(ErrorInfo)
>       LogFile.close()
> 
> How can I add the new info without deleting the old info?
> I tried the modes 'a' and 'a+' but they both didn't work. Actually the 
> data was totally unreadable! It was kind of messed up. I don't know why.

The following works for me:

 >>> f = open('c:/temp/test.txt', 'w')
 >>> for x in ('fee', 'fi', 'fum', 'fo'):
...     print >> f, x
...
 >>> f.close()
 >>> g = open('c:/temp/test.txt', 'a+r')
 >>> print >> g, 'slag-blah'
 >>> g.close()
 >>> file('c:/temp/test.txt').readlines()
['fee\n', 'fi\n', 'fum\n', 'fo\n', 'slag-blah\n']

HTH,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep 30 12:10:04 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:04 -0500
Subject: Is this is bug or something change in Python 2.3
In-Reply-To: <200309300854.42105.spatel@landrum-brown.com>
References: <200309300854.42105.spatel@landrum-brown.com>
Message-ID: <20030930161004.GB12344@unpythonic.net>

To expand on my earlier post, here's the entry from the NEWS file about
this change:
    What's New in Python 2.3 alpha 2?
    =================================

    *Release date: 19-Feb-2003*

    Core and builtins
    -----------------
    [...]
    - sys.path[0] (the directory from which the script is loaded) is now
      turned into an absolute pathname, unless it is the empty string.
      (SF patch #664376.)

However, the part about 'is the empty string' seems to be false, or was
perhaps modified by a later change:
$ python2.2 x.py
''
$ python2.3 x.py
'/net/filesrv1/sd3a/users/jepler'

Jeff




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep  8 16:52:38 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:52:38 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410@reader1.news.jippii.net> <vlpeq9jko1l6b0@news.supernews.com> <7T47b.4753$ZB4.113@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <vlpr14kfehrn46@news.supernews.com>

"Harri Pesonen" <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message
news:7T47b.4753$ZB4.113 at reader1.news.jippii.net...
> John Roth wrote:
>
> > "Harri Pesonen" <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message
> > news:TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410 at reader1.news.jippii.net...
> >
> >>Grant Edwards wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874 at reader1.news.jippii.net>, Harri Pesonen
> >
> >>Also I think that the class members should be explicitly declared. In
> >>general, it would be nice to have an option (like Option Explicit in
> >>Visual Basic) so that you can't assign to variables that have not been
> >>declared. It would probably make Python less error prone.
> >
> > I believe that is what __slots__ is for. That's run time rather than
> > compile time, but at least it gives you the error on the statement
> > that attempts to do an invalid assignment.
>
> Thanks guys, I hadn't heard of __slots__ before. Perhaps I am reading a
> too old book. Of course, a compile time check would be better...

__slots__ came in with 2.2 new style classes, and it's definitely
an advanced feature. There's also some thought that it may not
be the best way to do the job.

> >>Also if
> >>variable declarations could have the type, again some errors could be
> >>detected at compile time.
> >
> > It's quite possible to add run time type checking to Python, at a
> > significant cost in performance. See the descriptors material.
>
> I think that Python already has run time type checking. It does not
> allow "a" + 1, for example.

Actually, it doesn't. It has run time strong typing, which is a different
thing.

To me, at least, "type checking" implies a meta-operation, that is,
something that is outside of the operation itself insuring that the correct
types are used. In languages with static typing, that something is the
compiler.

Runtime type checking means that there is additional code somewhere
that checks that the object you are trying to bind is of an allowable
type; that code is basically supervisory in nature.

> > There's been quite a bit of work on a compile time type checking
> > system over the years, but it has never resulted in a proposal that
could
> > be agreed on.
>
> It would be quite simple to have "option explicit" like in Visual Basic,
> I believe. Like the following:
>
> option explicit
> var a = "asdf"
> b = 1 # error at compile time
> a = 123
> (var b, var c, var d) = (1, 2, 3)
> e = "asdf" # error at compile time

Things are not so simple. To do compile time type
checking, the compiler has to know the actual type
of the result of the expressions on the right hand side
of the assignments. In a dynamic language like Python,
that's not possible without very fundamental changes
to the nature of the language.

It's not a simple thing to do, and the fact that ML
family languages manage to do it without having
to have explicit type declarations (well, most of the
time anyway) is a major achievement, IMO.

The fact that Bicycle Repair Man manages to do it
as well as it does for Python is an even more
impressive achievement.

John Roth

>
> Harri
>





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Sep 27 11:08:53 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:08:53 -0400
Subject: pythonwin from dos
References: <3f731176.33482654@powernews.libero.it> <vn66jje743n725@news.supernews.com> <3f7591fe.1890578@powernews.libero.it>
Message-ID: <vnba0l1m9ec50d@news.supernews.com>

"Alberto Mantovani" <alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it> wrote in
message news:3f7591fe.1890578 at powernews.libero.it...
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:40:10 -0400, "John Roth"
> <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >"Alberto Mantovani" <alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it> wrote in
> >message news:3f731176.33482654 at powernews.libero.it...
> >> hi,
> >> how is it possible to run a python script  in the pythonwin
> >> environment from dos command line?
> >> If I use the command "/run scriptname.py" and the pythonwin is already
> >> opened I get error, so someone can help me?
> >
> >Why do you want to run it in Pythonwin? To run a script from
> >one of the command lines, the correct command is:
> >
> >    python scriptname.py parameters....
>
> I know this, but my problem is to run the script in pythonwin from dos
> when pythonwin is already opened.

Look in the registry and find out how Pythonwin handles the command
from the shell, then do the same thing.

John Roth





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 20:47:03 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:47:03 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
Message-ID: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com>

PEP315 (Enhanced while loop) suggests a syntax as follows...

  do:
    ...
  while condition:
    ...

The motives are IMO good, but I don't like this solution. It
replicates a problem with the C do loop (even though this is actually
different to the C do loop).

Imagine that you can see the following in a piece of code...

    statements1

  while condition :

    statements2

The question is this - is this a new old-style while loop starting at
this point, or is it the 'while' part of a new-style while loop? Given
the truncated view typical of a single screenful of code, this could
be far from clear. 'statements1' could follow after an earlier 'do:',
but it could equally follow after an earlier 'if ... :' or 'while ...
:' or whatever.

This is a situation where anyone who is unaware of the new 'do:' part
(or who simply didn't think about it) could end up being confused by
the 'while ... :' line.

This is not an unusual situation when the C 'do' loop is used, simply
because that loop is quite rarely used in practice - people don't
expect it, so when people see...

    statements
  }
  while (condition);

the tendency is to assume that either the semicolon is a mistake, or
the while line is a conventional while loop with no body (not unusual
in C code if the condition has side-effects).

There are other issues. For example...

  do :
    ...
  while c1 :
    ...
  while c2 :
    ...

Is the second 'while' line the start of a new loop, or is it a
continuation of the first loop (a second exit point)? If it is a
continuation, do you really potentially need to use a 'pass' to
prepare for a second loop...

  do :
    ...
  while c1 :
    ...

  pass  #  to assert that the previous loop is ended

  while c2 :
    ...

I basically think that this is too error-prone.

When faced with a problem inventing new language syntax, IMO the first
thing to do should always be to review other languages for existing
solutions. Why re-invent the wheel? Here, I'll limit myself to
alternate-to-while-loop structures which provide more flexibility than
a basic while loop (so I'm excluding Pascals repeat-until, for
instance, which is slightly different to but no more flexible than the
while loop).


First, ANSI Basic provides a generalised loop which is a bit more
flexible - it allows both a precondition and a postcondition.

  do [while condition]
    ...
  loop [until condition]

This can be useful in some situations, but it doesn't solve the PEP315
issue.

The C for loop deserves a quick mention because it isn't just an
integer for loop. The syntax is

  for (<initialisation>; <precondition>; <'increment'>)
    statement

Because the <initialisation> and <increment> can be any legal C
statements, the loop is quite flexible. Combined with the comma
operator, for instance, it allows 'in-step' loops such as this array
reverser...

  for (i = <first item index>, j = <list item index>; i < j; i++, j--)
  {
    temp = array [i];
    array [i] = array [j];
    array [j] = temp;
  }

Once again, though, this doesn't solve the PEP315 problem.

In terms of flexible loops, Ada is basically the Daddy. The mimimalist
for is...

  loop
    ...
  end loop;

But you can add a 'while' part or a 'for' part to the start...

  while condition loop
    ...
  end loop;

  for i in 1..10 loop
    ...
  end loop;

  for i in reverse 1..10 loop
    ...
  end loop;

And in addition, you can use an 'exit when' line (in any of the cases
above) to give essentially a conditional break...

  loop
    ...
  exit when condition;
    ...
  end loop;

This last form finally handles the PEP315 problem. But Ada goes a
little further. Suppose you have nested loops, and you want to exit
more than just the innermost one? In Ada, you can name the loops and
specify by name which one you want to exit...

  outerloopname: loop
    innerloopname: loop
      ...
    exit innerloopname when condition;
      ...
  exit outerloopname when condition;
      ...
    end loop;
  end loop;

So what might be worth using in Python? I like the idea of an 'exit
when' line, which is basically what the PEP315 'while' line gives, but
I think a different syntax should be used. I would suggest that 'exit'
in the Ada loop means essentially what 'break' means in Python now,
except for the condition. So I would suggest the following as a
possibility...

  while True :
    ...
  break if <condition> :
    ...

This has no new keywords, but should be both clear and effective. The
parser should expect a semicolon immediately after existing break
keywords, so the distinction should be immediately clear to the Python
parser.

A 'continue if' might be considered as well.

That is sufficient to handle PEP315 with no new keywords and without
the 'is this a new loop?' confusion. Should the need for named loops
ever be considered in Python, there is also an obvious place to put
the name between the 'break' and 'if'.


What about all those other loop ideas, though...

1.  Combining a precondition with a postcondition (ANSI Basic)...

    No problem - just put the 'break if' at the end of the loop. It's
    not an 'until' postcondition, but who cares. If anything, having
    all loop conditions with the same 'sense' is more consistent.

      while True :
        ...
      break if <condition> :

      statements after loop

2.  In-step looping (C for loop)...

    This is just syntactic sugar for a while loop anyway...

      setup1
      setup2

      while condition :
        statement

        increment1
        increment2

    My personal opinion is that there is some need for a more
    convenient iterate-over-integers, but this kind of stuff should
    normally be done as above.

3.  Named loops (Ada)...

    Don't know. It may be a feature without a purpose. In the two
    and a half years when Ada was my main language, I don't remember
    ever using it.

4.  Start-of-loop keyword which doesn't require a condition (Basic,
    Ada)...

    This is matched by the PEP315 'do', but is not actually necessary
    if you use 'break if' for the exit point - you can simply use
    'while True :' to start the loop without ambiguity.

But I admit it - the reason for going through the various languages is
because I'm sick of being accused of trying to change Python into *. I
don't think anyone can reasonably accuse me of trying to change Python
into Basic, C and Ada at the same time (maybe I should find a way to
get Prolog into the mix). Though it is slightly worrying that my
preferred idea was adapted from one particular language. Still,
traditionally I'm accused of trying to change Python into C, C++,
Java, Pascal, Haskell or more recently C# so at least Ada will (if I
remember right) make a change ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From jim-usenet at jimdabell.com  Mon Sep  8 19:48:16 2003
From: jim-usenet at jimdabell.com (Jim Dabell)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:48:16 +0100
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com> <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com> <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org> <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com> <3F5CFDA2.C947C3A2@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Fe-dnXvQ4eBZiMCiRVn-gA@giganews.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>> * You can't tell ahead of time what site you are going to be
>>   redirected to.
>>   As a result, you lose complete freedom to choose whether or not you
>>   should
>>   follow the link.  (Note for the imprecise: I didn't say you
>>   completely lose
>>   freedom, I said you lose complete freedom.)
> 
> But you can't tell that any URL, even a long one that looks meaningful,
> won't redirect you someplace you don't want to go.  Even if it's what
> you expected, there could be something on the page which potentially
> does something malicious, like a Java bomb.
> 
> It all comes down to trusting the person who's posting the URL, and that
> doesn't change whether it's a tinyurl.com URL being posted or something
> else.

No.  The crucial difference is that, if you can see the real URL, you don't
have to trust the poster if you trust the website.  I trust a URL pointing
to the python.org domain won't redirect me to a malicious website, no
matter who posts it.  If said URL is obfuscated with tinyurl or similar, I
only have the option of trusting the poster.


-- 
Jim Dabell




From anuradha.k.r at sify.com  Fri Sep 26 06:15:39 2003
From: anuradha.k.r at sify.com (anuradha.k.r at sify.com)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 03:15:39 -0700
Subject: server side socket program hangs
Message-ID: <57efaf35.0309260215.5ddd5734@posting.google.com>

hi,
   i am writing a socket program in python,both client side and server
side.I've written the client side which is working perfectly
fine(checked it against server program written in C).but as for my
server program written in python it simply hangs.it does not show any
error also.I've tried sample programs available .I don understand what
the reason is as i am quite new to it.
here is teh server side program:

///////////////////////
from socket import *
import socket
import sys

HOST = ''       #any address
PORT = htons(9999)       #same port address as client

try:
     s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_STREAM)
except socket.error:
     print 'socket not created'
try:
     s.bind((HOST,PORT))
except socket.error:
     print 'error in bind'
try:
     s.listen(5)
except socket.error:
     print 'error in listen'
conn, addr = s.accept()
print 'Connected by', addr
while 1:
     data = conn.recv(1024)
     if not data: break
     conn.send(data)
conn.close()
  
can someone tell me what the problem is?



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep 12 10:14:57 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 15:14:57 +0100
Subject: mixing for x in file: and file.readline
References: <rowen-222487.13545311092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1063364898.12243.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8765jym6u6.fsf@pobox.com>

Oren Tirosh <oren-py-l at hishome.net> writes:

> On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 01:54:53PM -0700, Russell E. Owen wrote:
> > At one time, mixing for x in file and readline was dangerous. For 
> > example:
[...]
> Yes.
[...]
> In Python 2.2 if you break in the middle of the loop the temporary 
> iterator object (xreadlines) is lost along with its readahead buffer, 
> leaving you at an unknown file position. The only things you can do are 
> to close the file or seek. In Python 2.3 the file object IS an iterator 
> (rather than HAS and iterator) so while the current file position is 
> undefined from a read/readline/tell point of view the iterator state is
> still consistent so you can immediately use it in another for loop to 
> continue from the same position or even call its next() method directly.
[...]

Oh, sorry for the misinformation -- I thought the repeated-iteration
and mixing-iteration-with-readline issues were the same, but clearly
not.


John



From basile-news at starynkevitch.net  Sat Sep  6 02:44:35 2003
From: basile-news at starynkevitch.net (Basile STARYNKEVITCH)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 08:44:35 +0200
Subject: ANN: Guis 1.4 release (GTK2 scriptable widget server)
References: <q5rsmnaok63.fsf@hector.lesours> <6e07b825.0309052123.7efebdb1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <q5rfzjao1po.fsf@hector.lesours>

>>>>> "yaipa" == yaipa h <yaipa at yahoo.com> writes:

    yaipa> Basile, Nice work, I don't know when I'll get a chance to
    yaipa> try it, but I like the model. I've been thinking as of
    yaipa> late, if you can have web servers why not GUI widget
    yaipa> servers? Guess I now know the answer. You can.

    yaipa> So when do we get the 'drag-n-drop' forms. ;^)

You already have them: you just just have to code the appropriate
initial script (Python or Ruby).

The idea in Guis is that each application has (usually) an appropriate
initial script (in Python or Ruby) which defines the functions (which
initialize and manage the widgets) which are called by later protocol
exchanges. So usually you define a start function (in Ruby or Python,
inside the initial script) which realize your graphical user interface
(creating windows, widgets, and putting callbacks..), and the first
request from application to Guis is a call to this start function.

Since Drag&Drop (DnD) is already existing in Gtk and since it is
callable thru Ruby or Python you can have DnD, provided you code it in
your script.

See http://starynkevitch.net/Basile/guisdoc.html for more.

-- 
Basile STARYNKEVITCH         http://starynkevitch.net/Basile/ 
email: basile<at>starynkevitch<dot>net 
aliases: basile<at>tunes<dot>org = bstarynk<at>nerim<dot>net
8, rue de la Fa?encerie, 92340 Bourg La Reine, France



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 30 08:26:19 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:26:19 +0200
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <mailman.1064916400.32187.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blbssu$oqs$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Tony Meyer wrote:

> I would think that:
> """
> s = "123"
> value = isNumber(s)
> if value is None:
>     # do something that shows it's not a number.
>     # (obviously not raise a ValueError, because
>     # then there's no point using the function at
>     # all)
> # continue program, with value in value, if needed.
> """
> Would be a more logical way to do it.

I would still prefer

try:
   value = toNumber(s)
except ValueError:
    # handle error

> It's not.  It was an example case showing that there isn't any need to
> bother with regexs and the like if you don't want to - Python will do the
> work for you.  Assuming you trust the Python developers, you can trust
> that it will correctly check that the value is convertible into a number,
> and don't need to worry that you missed something in the regex (or
> whatever).

I wouldn't use regexes here, too.

> A real function would have a docstring...this is only c.l.p...

Everything that can be conveyed by the function name makes the code more
readable. Consider

def killTheBeast(beast):
    """ Does not actually kill the beast, but shows a grim face
        while hugging it
    """

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

> The OP asked for a function called isNumber.  I posted an example of one.

If a suggested improvement changes the functionality, you could explain the
name change to the OP.

> The program snippet doesn't throw an exception at the end; your example
> usage did.  If the code was going to raise a ValueError if it couldn't be
> converted, then it would be written differently; the OP didn't say that
> that
> was the case.  The program flow is really:
>  - convert to number and return
>  - if an exception was raised then return None, signifying that no number
> can be created
> 
> Lots of the stuff written about Python talks about using exceptions for
> code
> control, as this does.  This isn't C++.

No, this isn't C, and one advantage, I think, is that you no longer need to
check for special error values. (OK, I'm simplifying...)

>> I can think of very few situations where None could actually
>> be *used* instead of a numerical value.
> 
> Why would you want to *use* None?  It's simply the function signifying
> that it couldn't convert the number.
> 
>> > Note that "0" will come back as 0.0, though, because it
>> > evaluates as False. It would be easy enough to special case that, if
> necessary.
>> 
>> This is a bug that demonstrates that your isInt()/isFloat()
>> implementation is not even well suited to implement isNumber().
> 
> Rubbish.  This is me not taking care of every little detail in example
> code,
> for the sake of brevity, but warning that that is the case.  In any case,
> it still correctly determines if the object can be converted to a number,
> and
> still correctly returns the number it is converted to.  The only thing
> that
> is possibly incorrect is that it's a float instead of an int.  As I said,
> easily fixed.

It is easily fixed in this trivial example. However, when you use a special
value to signal an error in a sufficiently complex calling hierarchy, you
end up testing for it too often for my taste.

> You seem to have missed the whole point of the code snippet.  The idea is
> that you can use the conversion built into Python to check if a number can
> be converted, without having to write code that checks yourself.  Perhaps

Maybe I stressed the points I did *not* like too much. Again, I agree with
your no regexes policy. (Localization is a different story)

> you would like this more?
> 
> """
> def isNumber(s):
>     for f in [int, float,]:
>         try:
>             return f(s)
>         except ValueError:
>             pass
>     raise ValueError("Cannot convert to a number")
> """

You're right, I like that. Now give it a decent name (e.g. strToNumber())
and we have finally reached consensus :-)

> To me this doesn't seem as clear in explaining the concept, although it's
> more like code I would actually use.  This does return "0" as 0, and
> raises
> a ValueError is no conversion is possible.  The point is that the concept,
> which is what I was trying to convey, is the same.  If you really don't
> want the value returned, then you could just use:
> 
> """
> def isNumber(s):
>     for f in [int, float,]:
>         try:
>             f(s)
>         except ValueError:
>             continue
>         return True
>     return False
> """

I think I would build on previous work here:

def isNumber(s):
    try:
        strToNumber(s)
    except ValueError:
        return False
    return True

Peter



From secun at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 16:59:47 2003
From: secun at yahoo.com (SectorUnknown)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:59:47 GMT
Subject: Windows dialog box removal
References: <MPG.19dbcef078a40b3d989688@news2.atlantic.net> <mailman.1064497835.7752.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.19dccffd8ef62d0198968a@news2.atlantic.net>

That works great.

Thanks!!!

In article <mailman.1064497835.7752.python-list at python.org>, 
dave at pythonapocrypha.com says...
> On Thursday 25 September 2003 06:18 am, SectorUnknown wrote:
> > I've written a Python script that runs a MS Windows program using popen.
> > However, at the end of the Windows program, a dialog box appears and
> > asks for the user to click on OK.
> >
> > Is there a way to have Python set focus on the dialog box and click OK
> > so my script can continue?
> >
> > Does anyone have an example?
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if there's an easier or more correct way to do this, 
> but if you can reliably know the title of the window then the code below 
> should work (assuming you have ctypes installed):
> 
> from ctypes import *
> user32 = windll.user32
> 
> EnumWindowsProc = WINFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int, c_int)
> 
> def GetHandles(title, parent=None):
>     'Returns handles to windows with matching titles'
>     hwnds = []
>     def EnumCB(hwnd, lparam, match=title.lower(), hwnds=hwnds):
>         title = c_buffer(' ' * 256)
>         user32.GetWindowTextA(hwnd, title, 255)
>         if title.value.lower() == match:
>             hwnds.append(hwnd)
> 
>     if parent is not None:
>         user32.EnumChildWindows(parent, EnumWindowsProc(EnumCB), 0)
>     else:
>         user32.EnumWindows(EnumWindowsProc(EnumCB), 0)
>     return hwnds
> 
> Here's an example of calling it to click the Ok button on any window that has 
> the title "Downloads properties" (most likely there are 0 or 1 such windows):
> 
> for handle in GetHandles('Downloads properties'):
>     for childHandle in GetHandles('ok', handle):
>         user32.SendMessageA(childHandle, 0x00F5, 0, 0) # 0x00F5 = BM_CLICK
> 
> -Dave
> 
> 



From sketerpot at chase3000.com  Fri Sep 12 12:18:28 2003
From: sketerpot at chase3000.com (Peter Scott)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 09:18:28 -0700
Subject: Usenet posting wiht python
References: <a26792eb.0309120243.7adb6cc6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <659f82ff.0309120818.31ca4b65@posting.google.com>

> How can I send a usenet posting from a python app?

Usenet servers use NNTP, so I'd recommend nntplib,
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-nntplib.html>. It
doesn't look too complicated, and there's example code in the docs.

-Peter



From richie at entrian.com  Fri Sep 19 06:35:00 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:35:00 +0100
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
In-Reply-To: <LIAab.7544$9G2.6227@twister.southeast.rr.com>
References: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com> <LIAab.7544$9G2.6227@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <gomlmv437217ej9vbeg5rs40no5fl9ikke@4ax.com>

[Peter]
> I wonder if the function *tell()* is not correctly implemented under win32.

[M-a-S]
> Anyway, you program works under Windows XP/Python 2.3 as expected:

M-a-S, are you sure you saved test_data.txt with Unix line endings?  I
tested Peter's script under WinXP/Python2.3 as well, and it failed as
expected (though with slightly different results):

>pythonw -u peter.py
Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:   8
Filepointer:  20
Filepointer:  31
Filepointer:  50

Filepointer:   0
Filepointer:  11
Filepointer:  22
Filepointer:  32
Filepointer:  50

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Sep  5 14:38:47 2003
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:38:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Coding Style: Defining Functions within Methods?
References: <70df36e9.0309050837.1660cdf4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjal7n$t2n$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com (Harry Pehkonen) writes:

>I have been defining new class methods when I'm trying to simplify
>some code.  But I'm thinking I should just define functions within
>that method because they aren't useful from the outside anyway. 
>Example:


>Before:

>class Mess(object):
>    def complicated(self, count):
>        for i in count:
>            self.do_loop(i)
>    def do_loop(self, i):
>        ...whatever...


>After:

>class Cleaner(object):
>    def complicated(self, count):
>        def do_loop(i)
>            ...whatever...
>        for i in count:
>            do_loop(i)

>The point is that do_loop is now not ``contaminating'' things.  I
>suppose do_loop could be __do_loop, but it would still show up in
>places where I don't think it should (such as dir(Mess)).

>Thoughts?

Definitely useful, especially as the inner function can see the same variables
as the outer (though I do keep getting bitten when I expect to be able update
variables).

Eddie



From felix_mcallister at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 09:53:25 2003
From: felix_mcallister at hotmail.com (Felix McAllister)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:53:25 +0100
Subject: Win32 Com + ADO: How to compare the result of a recordset to 'nothing'
Message-ID: <tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500@news.indigo.ie>

Hi,
When using win32com.client, how do you test for a 'nothing' com object as you can in VB? I have an example here when using ADO to loop over multiple recordsets returned from a query. I get the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\dev\python\MySamples\dbtest.py", line 14, in ?
    rs.MoveFirst()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 460, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: <unknown>.MoveFirst

I'm assuming that after the result of rs.NextRecordSet is invalid somehow (it shouldn't be, BTW, as a similar loop runs fine in VB). 

In Perl, I'd just use : if (defined($rs)....

Any help appreciated,

Felix.

The code is as follows:
###########################3 
import win32com.client
conn = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Connection")
conn.ConnectionString = "Driver={SQL Server};Server=(local);Database=Test;Trusted_Connection=yes;"
conn.Open()
rs = conn.Execute("TestSPXML")[0]
xmlString = ""
while rs != None:
    rs.MoveFirst()    # FAILS HERE ON THE SECOND ITERATION OF THE LOOP
    while not rs.EOF:
        xmlString = xmlString + rs.Fields[0].Value
        rs.MoveNext()
    rs = rs.NextRecordSet()
print xmlString
conn.Close()



From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Sat Sep  6 18:20:34 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 22:20:34 GMT
Subject: in CGI, how to include html pages?
References: <20030906110544.78d7ea33.python@sarcastic-horse.com> <mailman.1062860351.26409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <S4t6b.220$9t2.198@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>

How about:

htmlHeader = '''<html>

<head>

<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us">

<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">

<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">

<title>New Process</title>

</head>'''

print htmlHeader


"Nick Welch" <mack at incise.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062860351.26409.python-list at python.org...
> On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 11:05:44AM -0400, python wrote:
> > Hi-
> >
> > I'm writing some CGI stuff and I'm doing it in python to force myself to
> > learn the language.  Anyway,  I want to include some html at the top of
> > every page but I'm not sure how.
> >
> > If the header is in header.html, what is the python-ese way of printing
> > that out in my html?
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> f = file("header.html")
>
> for line in file:
>   print line,
>
> f.close()
>
> And of course you could easily write a function to wrap this so you
> could just include("header.html").
>
> HTH,
> -- 
> Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
> If you have a procedure with 10 parameters, you probably missed some.
>





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 20:19:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:19:59 -0400
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <3F6F12A1.3010702@bu.edu> <mailman.1064246454.19668.python-list@python.org> <6e7b9822.0309221439.6dea760e@posting.google.com> <3F6F8306.1ABCC6D@engcorp.com> <eppstein-7A2CB7.16353922092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3F6F91AF.63645AEA@engcorp.com>

David Eppstein wrote:
> 
> In article <3F6F8306.1ABCC6D at engcorp.com>,
>  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> > Paul wrote:
> > >
> > > However, what if you don't want case sensitivity?  For example, to
> > > check if a file is a jpg, I do name[-3:].lower() == 'jpg'.  This will
> > > work with both foo.jpg and foo.JPG.
> > >
> > > Is this slower than name.lower().endswith('jpg')?  Is there a better
> > > solution altogether?
> >
> > Yes, of course. :-)
> >
> > import os
> > if os.path.splitext(name)[1].lower() == 'jpg':
> >     pass
> >
> > That also handles the problem with files named "ThisFileIs.NotAjpg"
> > being mistreated, as the other solutions do. ;-)
> 
> I was about to post the same answer.  One minor nit, though: it should be
> 
> os.path.splitext(name)[1].lower() == '.jpg'

Oops, thanks!  I _always_ make that mistake.  It just seems that if 
os.path.split() does not return any path separators in the components,
then os.path.splitext() shouldn't return the extension separator...

Luckily we have tests around here to catch that kind of thing. :-)

-Peter



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Sep 11 13:11:42 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:11:42 -0700
Subject: 1.5 vs. 2x - build problem
In-Reply-To: <3F608651.6080307@ghaering.de> <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org>
References: <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org> <MOZ7b.84$o71.71@news2.central.cox.net> <3F608651.6080307@ghaering.de> <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org>
Message-ID: <20030911171142.GB2085@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Fritz Wuehler (fritz at expires-200309.rodent.frell.eu.org):
> I downloaded a tarball which doesn't compile.  The error message
> says I need python 2x but all I have is 1.5.  Can I fix the
> compatability problem and get it to work on 1.5?

My experience has been that most (and not all!) of the applications
that require Python 2.x, do it mostly for the sake of convenience.
This means that they'll use 
  func(*args, **kw) 
instead of 
  apply(funcs, args, kw)

or maybe
  mylist = [str(x) for x in yourlist]
instead of
  mylist = map(str, yourlist)

and
  x += 1
instead of
  x = x + 1

There are other features you'll find that don't work -- Python has
gotten a lot more convenient since 1.5.2! -- but most of the time, the
2.x dependencies are convenience features. Some features are more
difficult to port back than others, though. If you're dealing with
something that (for instance) has unicode requirements, you're just
not gonna be able to do what you need on 1.5.2.

So the answer is: probably; I have only run across one app so far that
I couldn't eventually port back to 1.5.2 at least well enough that it
was running for me. That app was Pyana. It may or may not be easy.


Quoting Gerhard H?ring (gh at ghaering.de):
> On the other hand, you could invest the time and bring your 
> software/system up-to-date with Python 2.3. You can just install it in 
> /usr/local and leave your previously installed Python alone.
> 
> FWIW I, for one, would reject any patches that'd add Python < 2.1 
> compatibilty to my software.

I wouldn't want to take one of my personal projects back to 1.5.2 and
lose the additional expressive power that recent Pythons have given
me, either. On the other hand, in my professional capacity, I have
spent an assembled couple of months trying to port 200k lines of
application code forward onto new versions of Python and Zope. It's
going to take a couple weeks of QA and deployment work to get it all
into place. On the other hand, it usually takes me an afternoon to
backport someone else's extension code well enough that I can use it.

Sometimes people aren't interested in the patches, sometimes they are.
Sometimes I fail to produce them after making the changes. For my
part, I feel bad for the next guy down the line in at least two of
those cases. Many people have this cavalier "well just upgrade, wtf is
wrong with you?" attitude, but it's often not as trivial as everyone
would like to pretend. (Of course, sometimes it /is/ trivial, and if
it is, you should do it.)


--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts        <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments 
when he was merely stupid."        --Heinrich Heine




From bogus at invalid.tld  Sat Sep 20 00:23:54 2003
From: bogus at invalid.tld (Jules Dubois)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:23:54 -0600
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
References: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1ncwxni2hwzl5.2lpkd6rdz989$.dlg@40tude.net>

On 19 Sep 2003 17:07:47 -0700, in article
<681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a at posting.google.com>, Pete Jereb wrote:

>>>> s = 'chg conn_fee'
>>>> print s
> chg conn_fee
>>>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
> onn_fee
> 
> Does this make any sense at all?  where did the lead c in conn_fee go?

It was removed, as you requested.  lstrip('chg ') means remove every
occurence of space, 'g', 'h', and 'c' from the front (left) of the string.

>>>> print s.lstrip('chg')
>  conn

lstrip('chg') stops stripping when it finds a character not in 'chg'.  The
space is the first character not 'chg' so that's where lstrip stops
stripping.

>>>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
> onn

lstrip('chg ') stops stripping when it finds a character not in 'chg '.
The 'o' is the first character not in 'chg' so that's where lstrip stops
stripping.

> Not really sure what's causing this [...]

As they said where I used to work, WAD: it Works As Designed.

> [...] but it's making me change the
> text parser  I'm 600 lines into.

It's not clear what you're trying to do.  Do you want to remove all the
leading space, 'g', 'h' and 'c' characters from the string, or do you want
to remove the leading (exact) string "chg " as a whole?

One way to remove the leading 'g', 'h', and 'c' characters from the front
of the string first, and then remove spaces from the resulting string

  print s.lstrip('chg').lstrip()



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Sep 21 11:42:11 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:42:11 -0400
Subject: python cgi problem with method = post
References: <d7825a3e.0309191202.dc02042@posting.google.com> <d7825a3e.0309210509.75748d8e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6DC6D3.E6454738@engcorp.com>

phil wrote:
> 
> (hopefully) any answers?

The mailing list and newsgroup are working well enough, so if you
receive no useful answers it's likely because nobody could understand 
the question clearly enough to think how to answer.

One thing you might consider is including some actual samples of
code, so people don't have to imagine which of the five dozen
possible approaches you are actually using.

Also make sure you have tried other approaches to ensure that the
problem is actually with your own code and not with some host-specific
problem which nobody else will ever be able to reproduce locally.

> > So, I don't expect anyone to be able to answer this ... but what

Yet you were hopeful for answers? ;-)

> > *kind* of thing should I be looking for? Is it to do with versions of
> > python (2.1.3 locally, 2.2 remotely) or "cgi"? Or the webserver (I'm
> > using Apache on Debian locally, I suspect my host is Apache on Red Hat
> > 7.1)

Python includes excellent facilities for debugging problems of various
kinds, including this kind.  Why not experiment a little and see what you
can come up with?  It's unclear from your description where your problem 
might be so without additional information any suggestions are random 
shots-in-the-dark, and that I suspect is why no one responded yet.

Also, I just noticed, you waited only one day before your second post.
That's far too little time to wait, as for many people it can take 
several days for Usenet posts to reach them and, furthermore, you posted
at the end of the work week and many people read Usenet only at work.

Summary: experiment, post more and more detailed information, and be
more patient.

-Peter



From simonb at webone.com.au  Sat Sep  6 19:55:25 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +1000
Subject: Automated code generation
References: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.06.23.55.13.333993@webone.com.au>

My classes often have a __str__/__repr__ that generates a
bit of python code that when eval'd will reproduce (a clone of) the instance.

Simon.

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:30:19 +0200, Max M wrote:

...
> Does anybody have any experience using Python and automated code 
> generation where it actually make sense?
> 
> Or os it useless in a language as dynamic as Python?
> 
> 
> regards max M




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Sep 12 11:30:44 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:30:44 -0400
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com> <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net> <66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp@4ax.com> <A8Ccna05HMkwQ_2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com> <uo02mv0dugi9ijk0k3llar0g3nmtnm59m6@4ax.com> <m24qziiwvw.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ZGWdnU40Lec4e_yiXTWJiw@comcast.com>

"Paul Foley" <see at below.invalid> wrote in message
news:m24qziiwvw.fsf at mycroft.actrix.gen.nz...
> Terry said "FEXPR", which tells you he's about 30 years out of date
> wrt Lisp :-)

Actually, less than 22 years (LISP was (C)ed in 1981).  I have no idea
when the last (MAC)LISP definition using FEXPR was written, if indeed
no one is still using it on a retro machine.  I'd bet less than 15
years ago.  No need to exaggerate my newly acquired (I just read the
book) and freely admitted (in the followup post) out-of-dateness;-).

Actually, I do not agree idea that acquiring new knowledge of old
things makes one 'out of date' with respect to that subject.

> Any vaguely modern Lisp has macros instead of FEXPRs.

Even back then, Winston and Horn presented MACRO as a alternate
keyword, with effects similar to, but more complex and powerful than
FEXPR.  But I believe that FEXPR is/was more like what Horne was
proposing for Python, and hence more appropriate,

But back to the semantics of 'function' calls.  In all languages I
have used, a function call meant/means one thing: evaluate the
argument expressions according to the rules of the language and pass
the results to the function body.  I believe Horne was proposing that
there be some mechanism added to function declaration syntax that
would change the usual argument handling without having to explicitly
change argument expressions.  He happened to have gotten that idea
from C#.  The point of my FEXPR-containing paragraph is that C# might
well have gotten the idea from Lisp, where it appeared decades ago.
(And hence the joke about Lispifying rather than C#ifying Python.)

Terry J. Reedy





From hutsonken at ev1.net  Mon Sep 22 22:56:28 2003
From: hutsonken at ev1.net (Kenneth Hutson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:56:28 -0500
Subject: Connect to VBA Objects?
References: <vmv8d1hdf55ia0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vmvd04nrgtgf16@corp.supernews.com>

Many thanks to Bob Gailer,  Dave Brueck and  Peter Hansen.
Kenneth Hutson
San Antonio, Texas

"Kenneth Hutson" <hutsonken at ev1.net> wrote in message
news:vmv8d1hdf55ia0 at corp.supernews.com...
> Hi,
> I wonder if Python can connect to the object models exposed by Excel or
> Word.
> Thanks in advance,
> Ken Hutson
> San Antonio, Texas
>
>





From twic at urchin.earth.li  Thu Sep 25 19:22:37 2003
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:22:37 +0100
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
In-Reply-To: <6%Icb.24427$dk4.777026@typhoon.sonic.net>
References: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net> <bkvklh$e2i$02$1@news.t-online.com>
 <6%Icb.24427$dk4.777026@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309260017210.21689-100000@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Don Bruder wrote:

> [...] As such, the details *MUST* get clear if I'm to create equivalent
> functionality. If only because I need to read data that was written
> (presumably...) by a Python program. Hence, it becomes neccesary to get
> down "in the muck" and actually know what's going on behind the nice,
> tidy "dict.whosit.get()" (or whatever other operators might be involved)
> interface that Python provides.

is this data in 'pickle' format (as opposed to text, XML, or some specific
binary format)? if it is, reading it in C/C++ is going to be very hard
indeed; you might consider writing a small python program to read it and
convert it to something more tractable. if it isn't, you don't need to
'get down in the muck'; you just need to write a C program to do the job
that needs to be done.

if pickling is entirely new to you, then your data probably isn't pickled,
so you don't need to worry about it.

> > Off topic (or not): A single person can start a discussion but not
> > limit it, I think that's a feature of newsgroups rather than an
> > annoyance.
>
> Perhaps, and perhaps not. Guess it depends on your perspective. Having a
> stream of insult and invective dumped into your mailbox because you've
> made it plain that you don't consider somebody's "pet" language the
> be-all and end-all of computer programming is hardly what I'd call a
> "feature"...

i'm sorry that happened; i hope you won't think badly of python and
pythoneers because of one moron. discreetly let the relevant people know
who he is and we'll fetch the Comfy Chair ... 8)

tom

-- 
Things fall apart - it's scientific




From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Sep 29 16:14:32 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:14:32 -0700
Subject: append log file
In-Reply-To: <vf0eb.44131$ai7.22316@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de> <vf0eb.44131$ai7.22316@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200309291314.32373.gherron@islandtraining.com>

> Why not ... open(filename ... ? Then 'a' should work. (or at least works
> here).

The new and prefered way to open a file is to use "file()".  The old
"open()" is a synonym kept around for backwards compatibility.

Gary Herron







From chrisahlers at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  1 00:35:17 2003
From: chrisahlers at yahoo.com (Chris)
Date: 31 Aug 2003 21:35:17 -0700
Subject: wxListbook and wxPython?
Message-ID: <db98300b.0308312035.a2faba9@posting.google.com>

Is wxListbook actually implemented in wxPython 2.4.07?

I attempted to use the class, but an error came back and it is not
defined. I found some newsgroup postings in the wxWindows group from
2002 stating that they are working on it, and there is some (sparse)
documentation. There is apparently a demo c++ file that features it...

Is there something specific that I must do to enable it (or a test
version of it), or is it not yet implemented?

Thanks,
-Chris



From Kevin.Smith at sas.com  Mon Sep  8 10:29:27 2003
From: Kevin.Smith at sas.com (Kevin Smith)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 14:29:27 GMT
Subject: zlib on HP-UX 10.20
Message-ID: <20030908102932241-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>

I'm trying to compile Python 2.2.3 and/or Python 2.3 on HP-UX 10.20.  
However, I can't seem to get zlib working.  It worked in 2.2 though.  I 
get the following error:

/bin/ld: Invalid loader fixup for symbol "deflate_stored".

I read some things in other places that lead me to believe that I needed 
to compile zlib with +z or +Z.  I tried both of them, but it didn't seem 
to help.  Anyway, I would rather be using gcc.  Has anyone else gotten 
this to work?

-- 
Kevin Smith
Kevin.Smith at sas.com



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 21 16:30:52 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 21:30:52 +0100
Subject: Download to client from a cgi script?
References: <J_mbb.24430$os2.339970@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <87fzip6g03.fsf@pobox.com>

?ystein Johansen <oystein at gnubg.org> writes:
[...]
> How can I make the browser downlaod a cgi script from
> /cgi-bin/. Obviously I can't make a link to it with
> <a=href="/cgi-bin/script.cgi>, since tha script will be executed then.
> 
> I see how Lutz in PP2E prints the script on the screen, but I want the
> user to get the "save file" message box?

Don't put it in the cgi-bin?  There will be other ways, too, all of
which are entirely dependent on your web server and its configuration.
Anything regarded by your server as a cgi-script *shouldn't* be
downloadable, because that would risk security problems.  Some servers
will always regard anything ending in ".cgi" or ".py" or whatever as
CGI scripts, some will regard anything in a particular directory as
CGI scripts, some will do other things.


> Same thing. What about a binary file? Printing a binary file with
> getfile.cgi from PP2E is just silly. The surfer must be promped to
> save. So, what I want is a script like getfile.cgi, that downloads
> insted of prints the file.

I don't understand any of this paragraph.


> (Maybe this is more a HTTP/HTML question than a Python question...)

None of the above: entirely a web server question.


John



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Mon Sep  8 19:59:24 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:59:24 -0400
Subject: os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <2ce42702.0309081441.5c73a772@posting.google.com>; from pulapaka@ligo.caltech.edu on Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 03:41:58PM -0700
References: <2ce42702.0309081441.5c73a772@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030908195924.A21733@cerberus.liberty>

* Hari (pulapaka at ligo.caltech.edu) wrote:
<snip>
> 
> What I wanted to know was, is it guaranteed that between 2 calls
> os.listdir any files added to the directory are appended and the
> earlier order is maintained?

Even if the module does guarantee this to you, you probably don't want to
just rely on the length of the list (nor the order of it).  You probably
want to build yourself a dictionary and keep track of it that way.  One
reason is that you may not be able to guarantee that a file didn't get
deleted out of the directory.  Even if you think you are in total control
of that filesystem, I still wouldn't trust that no files would be deleted.
I dunno, maybe I'm just paranoid.  Further, as the value of the dictionary
(didn't mention this above, but I'd let the filename serve as the key), I'd
do os.stat and use the last modified date.  Again, maybe I'm just paranoid.

Jeremy Jones

> 
> thanks,
> 
> Hari
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From tassilo.parseval at rwth-aachen.de  Sat Sep  6 05:27:32 2003
From: tassilo.parseval at rwth-aachen.de (Tassilo v. Parseval)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 09:27:32 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com> <g_Y5b.25276$R32.778757@news2.tin.it> <74e674c13888643bf15a72e800c9d8ed@news.teranews.com> <Fxf6b.20653$hE5.755579@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bjc9a4$qso$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Also sprach Alex Martelli:

[ embedding an interpreter ]

> Another option you may want to consider is Ruby.  I don't know
> how easy it is to interface it specifically to C++, and in
> particular to get the cross-language subclassing and overriding
> effect you want (which Boost provides so smoothly) -- but it's
> basically the same power as Perl or Python, a distinctive style
> of its own that along some axes lies in-between the two P's,
> and a small but enthusiastic community.  Size-wise, though, I
> don't think it will significantly help you.

The C interface of Ruby is very simple and clear (likewise the C code in
which Ruby was written). It almost made me cry when I saw it and
compared it to that of Perl. :-) It's probably also smaller than both
Python and Perl. I don't know about Python, but Perl's unwrapped source
is currently well beyond 50meg. In compiled form it's still pretty large
due to all the modules that come with Perl. Not sure whether the OP
needs all of them though.

The bridge to C++ should not be so hard considering that a C++ compilers
wont mind to include C code as well (or can at the very least easily be
convinced to do so).

But anyway, embedding Perl is known to be hard.

Tassilo
-- 
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Sep  5 00:42:20 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 21:42:20 -0700
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309042042.58542a60@posting.google.com>

Jules Dubois <bogus at invalid.tld> wrote in message news:<1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg at 40tude.net>...
> On 03 Sep 2003 13:58:00 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:
> 
> > The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
> > learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).
> 
> That's the only Python book you think worth having?  Or buying?
> 
It's a great book, but IMHO it isn's a suitable introduction to the
language.
'Learning Python' by Lutz & Ascher is a gentle introduction (very much
the Python
equivalent of Schwartz and Christiansen's 'Learning Perl'), but is
sadly out of date.

On the other hand Alex Martelli's 'Python in a Nutshell' (see
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonian/) is certainly worth buying
and having, and, if you have some experience in programming, is also a
good (if terse) introduction.  Check out the free sample chapter and
make up your own mind.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep 10 10:24:09 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:24:09 -0600
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.
In-Reply-To: <004601c376f0$e36e6f80$5501a8c0@markxp>
References: <56665.199.169.240.132.1063120715.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
 <004601c376f0$e36e6f80$5501a8c0@markxp>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030910082215.03a7bc80@66.28.54.253>

At 10:39 AM 9/9/2003, mark wrote:

>This isn't a terribly helpful post, but I wrote a script that would
>collect data from a database using an SQL query.  This data was written
>to a file which was then imported into Excel using a macro to do all the
>sorting and chart creation.  I guess there's a learning curve either
>way, but it is another way to go about it, since you mentioned that
>you're using Excel already.
>
>I believe it's possible to call out an instance of Excel and provide
>arguments to tell it which file to open and what to do with it.  I'm
>sure there's someone here with a better idea on exactly how to do that
>(I didn't get that far before I changed jobs).

My approach creates an instance of Excel, then uses Excel VBA methods and 
objects to transfer data and format charts.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From pkropf at legato.com  Tue Sep 23 13:28:59 2003
From: pkropf at legato.com (Peter Kropf)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:28:59 -0700
Subject: C Extension and multiple namespaces
Message-ID: <96F3EC4BDF504540BB9715CBE9DACB8B019487A9@pa-mail1.legato.com>

I'm looking for a way to create multiple namespaces / dictionaries from
within a Python C extension. I'd like to replicate something like:

  a\__init__.py
  a\b\__init__.py
  a\b\c\__init__.py

Where a\__init__.py import b and b\__init__.py imports c.

Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jul  9 2003, 16:15:35) 
[GCC 3.2] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import a
>>> dir(a)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__', 'b']
>>> dir(a.b)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__', 'c']
>>> dir(a.b.c)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__']

I haven't been able to find any examples or other extension modules that do
anything like this, so it might not even be possible. But any help or
pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks.


- Peter

Special Projects Group, Legato Systems
3210 Porter Drive, Palo Alto, CA 94304
650-812-6081 Desk
408-482-9427 Cell
pkropf at legato.com
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From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Tue Sep 16 09:51:15 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:51:15 -0400
Subject: Duck Typing
In-Reply-To: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030916135115.GA15424@hishome.net>

On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 02:01:18AM -0700, srijit at yahoo.com wrote:
> Hello All,
> I have been seeing this term "duck typing" for quite sometime now. It
> will be nice if one of us can give an example in Python demonstrating
> duck typing and/or link to some Python references.

class Duck:
    def quack(self):
        print "Quack!"

class MeWearingSillyDuckOutfit:
    def quack(self):
        print "ummm... Quack!"

def make_it_quack(obj):
    obj.quack()

a = Duck()
b = MeWearingSillyDuckOutfit()
make_it_quack(a)
make_it_quack(b)





From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 23 00:54:01 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:54:01 GMT
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org> <6e990e29.0309220251.51fa648d@posting.google.com> <87fzipavaz.fsf@mally.pyrite.org>
Message-ID: <JlQbb.76$RW4.4@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Rob Tillotson:
> There already is one: array.  Mutable blocks of bytes (or shorts,
> longs, floats, etc.), usable in many places where you might otherwise
> use a string (struct.unpack, writing to a file, etc.).

Even regular expressions

>>> import array, re
>>> t = "When in the course of human events"
>>> s = array.array("c", t)
>>> pat = re.compile(r"([aeiou]{2,})")
>>> m = pat.search(s)
>>> m.group(1)
array('c', 'ou')
>>>

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep  4 04:03:22 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:03:22 GMT
Subject: safari (was Re: Writing solid code book)
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it>

Jules Dubois wrote:

> On 03 Sep 2003 13:58:00 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:
> 
>> The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
>> learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).
> 
> That's the only Python book you think worth having?  Or buying?

Speaking as both the co-editor of the Cookbook and the author of the
Nutshell, if I had to choose ONE Python book "worth having or buying"
I think I'd go for the Nutshell.  Hard decision, though.

Fortunately you don't have to choose "sight unseen".  You can join
O'Reilly's "Safari" online-books service: it's for-pay, but you DO
get a couple of weeks free access, giving you time to examine all
of the 15 Python books they have available for online reading -- on
the basis of how you like what you see, you may then decide to
purchase any one of them -- or even, if you don't like any of them
well enough, to purchase none of them and go with the other ones
you can access in entirely free ways off the net.

In the past, I made my choices about what books to purchase mostly
by browsing books at a bookstore.  Half an hour per book might
mean a full day's worth of browsing to choose among 15 of them,
and yet not give me a solid enough basis for choosing.  Now I can
spend 2 or 3 hours examining each book's contents in a more
convenient setting, and in a weekend plus a couple evenings make
my choice on a much more solid basis.  Even ignoring safari's many
other advantages, just as a book-choosing device it's superb!-)


Alex




From J.Knuth at ipro.de  Wed Sep 17 14:29:13 2003
From: J.Knuth at ipro.de (Jochen Knuth)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:29:13 +0200
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
In-Reply-To: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com>
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <newscache$pcfdlh$cez$1@ns.intern.ipro.de>

Hi Bill,

Bill wrote:

> I am trying to have the capability to email attachments. Specifically
> I want to be able to email a specific attachment that I name that may
> be a PDF document, text doc, etc. I already have a working piece of
> code that emails jpg attachments but does not work with any other
> types of attachments. Could someone tell me how to modify this code to
> send other types of attachments like the one's stated above(especially
> PDF's)?


look at the email package (included since Python 2.2), documented at 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-email.html , specific to 
MIME-Attachment is http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node501.html .

Ciao,
Jochen
-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Jochen Knuth          WebMaster http://www.ipro.de
IPRO GmbH             Phone ++49-7152-93330
Steinbeisstr. 6       Fax ++49-7152-933340
71229 Leonberg        EMail: J.Knuth at ipro.de




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Sep  7 11:53:40 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 15:53:40 GMT
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <bjfka4$gsm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 05:36:03 -0000, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:
[...]
>
>    What you've all missed is that violence still happens.  The
Are you talking to me? ;-)  (when you say "all")

If you read my post, you will note that I didn't say you should not be allowed
to make the choice of owning a gun. I just suggested (indirectly at that) that
maybe we should regulate ownership and operation of firearms at least as well as
we do cars. 

I suggested that this might have a good influence on the odds of bad things happening.
I didn't say I expected them to stop happening. In fact, I said/wrote
"""
You seem to be hoping that education and attitude (which you don't mention a way of
improving, enforcing, or QA-ing) will prevent all the temporary quasi-insanities that
normally reasonable humans are capable of.
"""

I suggested that a risk management approach might be reasonable. Risks vary, as I also
mentioned. I understand what happens in one's mind if one receives believable threats
of bodily harm, and my sympathies if it has happened to you. I understand that there
are contexts where arming oneself is rational, just as there are contexts where wearing
a parachute is rational. You have to calculate your own odds. There is a non-zero
probablility that you'll be pushed off a high place where a parachute would do you some good.
Or jumping might be part of your job.

Anyway, try not to be in the wrong place during thunderstorms etc., and never point a banana
at an armed person, not even a police officer you know ;-)
(well, never say never. Someone probably has bluffed their way out of a bad spot with
a banana. But how many got called on it is another thing to consider ;-)

Human life structured mainly according to fears is a kind of hell. It is certainly not
freedom. We must be careful that our curative measures don't contribute to the disease.

Enough OT ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mark at hahnca.com  Tue Sep 30 19:33:50 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:33:50 -0700
Subject: need help with PyXML
References: <p3oeb.4606$hp5.3567@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Cpoeb.4610$hp5.358@fed1read04>

Note:  I just found a thread from over a year ago where someone else
reported the same bug.  Can someone give me a hint on how to work around
this bug?

previous thread:  http://tinyurl.com/p8xj

"Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> wrote in message
news:p3oeb.4606$hp5.3567 at fed1read04...
> I am trying to parse HTML for the first time.  I first installed
> 4Suite-1.0a3.win32-py2.3.exe and then realized I didn't need it.  Then I
> installed PyXML-0.8.3.win32-py2.3.exe.  Now when I try to execute this as
> the first line of my module ...
>
> from xml.dom.ext.reader import Sax2
>
> ... I get this Exception ...
>
> Sequence index out of range: list index out of range
>
> Traceback (innermost last):
>
> File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>
> File "c:\codeshare\codeshare.py", line 4, in ?
>   from xml.dom.ext.reader import Sax2
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\__init__.py", line 223,
in
> ?
>       from xml.dom.html import HTMLDOMImplementation
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\html\__init__.py", line
> 445, in ?
>   g_numCharEntityPattern = re.compile('&#(\d+);')
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre.py", line 179, in compile
>       return _compile(pattern, flags)
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre.py", line 227, in _compile
>           p = sre_compile.compile(pattern, flags)
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 469, in compile
>       code = _code(p, flags)
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 453, in _code
>       _compile(code, p.data, flags)
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 88, in _compile
>               _compile(code, av[1], flags)
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 69, in _compile
>                   _compile(code, av[2], flags)
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_compile.py", line 27, in _compile
>       for op, av in pattern:
> File "C:\Python23\Lib\sre_parse.py", line 138, in __getitem__
>           return self.data[index]
>
>





From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 30 17:24:26 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:24:26 GMT
Subject: Visual Basic integration
References: <gmmeb.38136$pP6.28714@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ewmeb.199968$R32.6443300@news2.tin.it>

Lucas Raab wrote:

> Can I use Python as an extension language to Visual Basic sort of like in
> C or C++?

You can implement COM (aka Active/X) servers in Python (just you could
implement them in C, C++, or Visual Basic itself) and instantiate them and
call their methods from Visual Basic, yes; or, vice-versa, you can put 
Python in the driving seat.  Hammond and Robinson's book on Win32 API
Programming (O'Reilly) covers the subject well, IMHO, even though it is
quite dated by now (you can do a lot more things with today's Python, and
today's version of Hammond's win32all extensions, than you could back
when the book was written; but, you can also still do all you could do 
then:-).


Alex




From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Thu Sep 11 14:35:32 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:35:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ftplib question: how to upload files?
Message-ID: <40669.199.169.240.132.1063305332.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi:

I want to write a procedure to automatically upload some files for me, but
I'm getting stuck.  Before I write my own gruesome put() function, I
wanted to check if there is an easier way.

Here's what I can do so far:
>>>import ftplib
>>>conn = ftplib.FTP('ftp.example.com')
>>>conn.login(user='userid', passwd='passwd')
>>>conn.cwd('/var/www/html/incoming')

What do I do to send files?

I have three files I want to upload, but I'm not sure what to do.  I hoped
to find a ftplib.put() method, but it looks like ftplib is a low-level
interface.

All help is welcome.





From doc at goodweb.de  Sun Sep 21 12:56:39 2003
From: doc at goodweb.de (Thomas Korb)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:56:39 +0200
Subject: XML/XSLT with Python
References: <mailman.1064090130.16541.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.21.16.56.38.467660@goodweb.de>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:32:59 +0200, K. N. wrote:
> 
> Is there any good and fast Python module for XSLT
> processing ? 
> 

I've tested the following 3 'typical' choices

  1. 4Suite
     http://4suite.org/index.xhtml 

  2. Pyana (for Apache's Xalan) 
     http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyana/

  3. libxml2/libxslt
     http://www.xmlsoft.org/

and decided to use libxml2/libxslt. Easy to install 
(on Linux and Windows), easy to use, *very* fast and
no problems at all with the XSLT-processor.
(I cannot say the same about the other two solutions!)

The only problem is the xmlsoft.org site: it's not
really obvious, which versions to install etc.


WINDOWS:

I use the following website for Windows, where you can
download Python bindings which are bundled with a copy 
of libxml2/libxslt (very convenient, easy to install): 

	http://users.skynet.be/sbi/libxml-python/


LINUX:

For Linux, I use the RPMs which come with my distribution,
i.e.: libxml2, libxml2-python, libxslt and libxslt-python.


Hope this helps.

-- 
Dr. Thomas Korb




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Sep 23 22:51:07 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:51:07 -0400
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <nD7cb.2405$PT3.395618@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HA5cb.185$kD3.168 at nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> Here is a discussion draft of a potential PEP.
[snip]
> Proposal
> ========
>
> Add a method called iter_backwards() to sequence objects that can benefit
> from it.  The above examples then simplify to::
>
>     for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
>         print seqn[i]
>
>     for elem in seqn.iter_backwards():
>         print elem
>

Hi.
This will mostly just be some alternate naming suggestions:

How about just ".backwards",  where backwards acts like a read-only property
that returns a generator for reverse iteration?

for i in xrange(n).backwards:
    print seqn[i]

for elem in seqn.backwards:
    print elem

It's not as explicit as iter_backwards(), but it's shorter, cleaner, and
appears
obvious (to me, anyway). Or, perhaps, 'ibackwards', or 'ireverse' ; or
ibackwards() or  ireverse(). (being reminiscent  of imap() and izip())
'.reverse' would be good, but, of course, it's already taken...

If one could be made, a fast** general purpose "reverse(iterable)" (or
ireverse(iterable)) function would be my preference (at the very least, it
would
avoid having to add iter_backwards() to several type definitions).

# e.g.
for i in reverse(xrange(n)):
    print seqn[i]

for index, item in reverse(enumerate(seqn)):
         print "index:%s item:%s"%(index, item)

# that sort of thing...





**    Yep, fast. Something where xrange(n-1, -1, -1) is not exorbitantly
       faster than reverse(xrange(n)). Similarly, for sequence types, you'd
       want reverse(list) to be atleast somewhere near as quick as:

        # python-faq, entry 4.6
        list.reverse()
        try:
                for x in list:
                        "do something with x"
        finally:
                list.reverse()





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Sep 29 08:28:17 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:28:17 +0200
Subject: unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no> <bl3r3r$dno$05$1@news.t-online.com> <m3ad8qa1t2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <o%pdb.26285$os2.362461@news2.e.nsc.no> <3F773EA1.4010802@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <bl98h5$nq4$1@sea.gmane.org>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Correct: UTF-8 works differently. I find it surprising that anybody
> actually proposes to send non-ASCII characters using xHH, as this
> byte sequence my coincidently happen in ASCII text as well.

unless they expect you to send "x" as "x78", of course.

</F>







From t.evans at paradise.net.nz  Wed Sep 24 05:18:20 2003
From: t.evans at paradise.net.nz (Tim Evans)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:18:20 GMT
Subject: working png output from graphing modules
References: <983dac9b.0309221905.1960cf02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87zngutuht.fsf@cassandra.evansnet>

johnlichtenstein at mac.com (john) writes:

> Are there any charting or graphing modules for python that can write
> PNG, JPEG, or GIF graphics? I have found a couple of nice looking
> packages that can make beautiful postscript, PDF, or SVGs (PyChart and
> ReportLab) but they can't make PNGs, GIFs, or JPEGs. (On my Solaris
> machine with Python 2.2 they don't.) Or are there any simple UNIX
> filters to convert SVG, PDF, or ps files to PNG?

The 'convert' utility from ImageMagick (google for it) is very good at
converting PDF or PS to PNG.  It uses ghostscript to do the actual
conversion; it's just very good at choosing the right options to pass
to ghostscript.

convert -geometry 800x600 -density 200 foo.ps foo.png 

Will convert a postscript to a png, keeping the aspect ratio correct
but making it fit inside an 800 by 600 pixel area.  The -density
argument tells it the dpi to use when rendering the image.  Higher
values are slower but give better results.

-- 
Tim Evans



From mauricio.inforcati at cenpra.gov.br  Fri Sep  5 13:04:19 2003
From: mauricio.inforcati at cenpra.gov.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Maur=EDcio_Infor=E7ati?=)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:04:19 -0300
Subject: Shaped window on Tkinter
Message-ID: <000801c373cf$bfa741e0$237290c8@ITABIRITO>

Hi.
Is it possible to create windows with transparent areas, just like shaped windows on wxPython?
Is there some way of creating transparent frames without associating an image to it?

 thanks,

  Mauricio Infor?ati
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From indigomoon at bonbon.net  Wed Sep 24 01:34:00 2003
From: indigomoon at bonbon.net (Indigo Moon Man)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:34:00 -0600
Subject: float problem
Message-ID: <bkrai0$50pag$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>

for the formula J = I / (12 * 100)  where I is low (like about 8 to 15) I
get 0.  But when I do it with a calculator it's actually .008333 for example
if I were 10.  Is there a way I can get python to recognize the .008333
instead of it just giving me 0?

TIA for your help!

-- 
Audio Bible Online:
http://www.audio-bible.com/





From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Sep  8 02:42:15 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:42:15 -0700
Subject: Ternary operator (Re: Ternery operator)
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>

> Andrew Chalk wrote:
> > Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?

Peter Hansen wrote:
> See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=4.16&req=search

As a newcomer to Python, I found it interesting to read the PEP for this:

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html

In retrospect, it seems obvious that the way the voting was conducted
insured that no ternary operator would be added to the language.

There were 16 proposed syntax options, and the requirement was that a
ternary operator would be added only if an clear majority picked a single
one of those options.

Well, with 16 options to choose from, it hardly seems surprising that none
achieved a majority-even though several of them drew quite a few votes, and
the most popular proposal did get more votes than the "reject all" option.

Four of the options got significantly more votes than the others. Those four
options combined got more than three times the number of votes that "reject
all" got.

It seems to me that the majority did want some kind of ternary operator, but
the large number of options prevented any one from being the clear winner. I
would wager that if the BDFL had picked his favorite from any of the most
popular options and said, "Now vote yes or no on *this* syntax", he would
have seen that clear majority he was looking for.

I suppose this is all water under the bridge now, since the PEP stated that
this was the community's one and only chance. I just can't help but think
that the voting system guaranteed the outcome--but it's Guido's language and
it was certainly his call to make.

-Mike (who just got my California voter's pamphlet with 135 candidates for
governor!)





From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Sep  1 04:34:30 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:34:30 +0100
Subject: homebrew 2.3 install on RedHat9 not playing nice with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <0h83b.953$8v3.90271@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <0h83b.953$8v3.90271@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200309010934.31138.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Wednesday 27 August 2003 9:12 pm, Rob Andrews wrote:
> I'm on a Red Hat 9 system, which has Python 2.2.2 installed, and I
> installed 2.3 separately into /home/rob/Python-2.3/ (creating the symbolic
> link "py23" to point to my 2.3 installation). Now I'm trying to work out
> the kinks in the process.
>
> Unable to run Idle using 2.3 the way I've got things set up, I created a
> super simple Tkinter test program that just pops up a Label widget. I
> pasted below an example of how the RH-provided 2.2 runs the script without
> incident, but running the script with 2.3 produces a traceback. If someone
> can help me see the error of my ways, I'll be most appreciative.
>
> [Wed Aug 27][03:01 PM] ~/Python-2.3/test $ python -V
> Python 2.2.2
> [Wed Aug 27][03:04 PM] ~/Python-2.3/test $ py23 -V
> Python 2.3
> [Wed Aug 27][03:01 PM] ~/Python-2.3/test $ py23 test2.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test2.py", line 1, in ?
>     from Tkinter import Label
>   File "/home/rob/Python-2.3/Lib/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 38, in ?
>     import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for
> Tk ImportError: No module named _tkinter
> [Wed Aug 27][03:01 PM] ~/Python-2.3/test $ python test2.py
>
> -Rob
> (mediocre with Python, incompetent with linux)



Rob,

I had another look and I think I see your problem...   basically I removed the 
/usr/local build of Tcl/Tk so that python 2.3 would 'find' the redhat 9 build 
of Tcl/Tk....

so I ran configure then make and right at the end of the make:-

building '_tkinter' extension
gcc -pthread -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC 
-fno-strict-aliasing -DWITH_APPINIT=1 -I/usr/X11R6/include -I. 
-I/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3/./Include 
-I/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3/Include 
-I/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3 -c 
/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3/Modules/_tkinter.c -o 
build/temp.linux-i686-2.3/_tkinter.o
/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3/Modules/_tkinter.c:96:2: #error 
"unsupported Tcl configuration"
/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3/Modules/_tkinter.c: In function 
`AsObj':
/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3/Modules/_tkinter.c:947: warning: 
passing arg 1 of `Tcl_NewUnicodeObj' from incompatible pointer type
/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3/Modules/_tkinter.c: In function 
`FromObj':
/usr/python/Python23/TEST111/Python-2.3/Modules/_tkinter.c:1073: warning: 
passing arg 1 of `PyUnicodeUCS2_FromUnicode' from incompatible pointer type




So it looks like the Tcl/Tk version that comes with RedHat 9 (it apears to be 
Tk 8.3.5 accordfing to the tk.h file in /usr/include) is not compatible with 
the Tkinter in Python 2.3.  This means _tkinter.so is not built  and Tkinter 
will not work!

On way round this little problem would be to build your own Tcl/Tk
(thats what I did)  Not only will you get a working Python 2.3 but you get the 
new options in Tk 8.4 too all for an extra couple of downloads and about 30 
mins of 'work'.


Cheers
Martin











From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Sep 16 14:17:22 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 14:17:22 -0400
Subject: distutils on win32 with link.exe -- use dlls?
References: <mailman.1063735042.3212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u65jssiml.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

> Is there a macro or compile flag or other setting to inform distutils
> to look for the DLLS of the required libraries rather than the *.lib
> files?

Under Windows, even if your resultant binary is going to use DLLs, you
need to link against the export libraries provided for those DLLs.
The export libraries only contain the external entry points into the
DLLs and a reference to the DLL, but they are still separate .lib
files that are necessary to build code to run against the DLLs.  Thus,
anyone who provides DLLs for other source to use should also be
providing the matching .libs (or if you are building the DLLs from
source, the build process should also create matching .lib files).

-- David



From ken at perfect-image.com  Fri Sep 19 01:59:19 2003
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:59:19 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
In-Reply-To: <6e07b825.0309182013.3ddeb760@posting.google.com>
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <Xns93FAC750B300Ek23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13> <3f6a2bd3$0$10998$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6e07b825.0309182013.3ddeb760@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6A9B37.6030207@perfect-image.com>

yaipa h. wrote:
> You have our permission to go out an buy that second monitor, 
> so that this DREADFUL problem never happens again. ;^)
> Someone has to run the regressions on a dual headed system
> and you get our vote.
> 
> On a more serious note, you will find that you use the office printer
> a whole lot less on a dual head machine.
> 
>   --Alan
> 
> "John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message news:<3f6a2bd3$0$10998$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk>...
> 
>>Hi
>>You may or may know that BA is based on the Qt GUI Application Toolkit, so
>>you problem with the duel monitor set up is something I shall take up with
>>Trolltech. Unfortunately, none of use at theKompany run a duel monitor setup
>>so it is something that we are not aware of. Thank you for bring up this
>>problem and I will get back to you with a solution or our proposal for a
>>solution

boy, I didn't want to keep jumping in on this Black Adder thing but.....

I also run dual monitors and Black Adder / Qt designer / pyqt apps do 
not have any problems splitting the screens.

I'm only testing the Black Adder demo version on win32(98se) though,
Nvidia (without thier goofy utilities, that screw up everything)
I forget what dual head card/reference design that's in that machine
but it's an under $100.00 card.














From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Sep  9 02:34:18 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 06:34:18 GMT
Subject: enum in Python
References: <KF67b.33$fd2.25@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com> <%V67b.653$NW3.617@news1.central.cox.net> <3f5d0df1$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <xqxekyqlbbp.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Scott David Daniels <Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org> writes:

> David M. Cook wrote:
> 
> > In article <KF67b.33$fd2.25 at newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>, Andrew Chalk wrote:
> >
> >>As a rank Python beginner I've used a dictionary, but presumably there is a
> >>better way.
> > I've seen idioms like FOO, BAR, BAZ = range(3)
> > used.
> > Dave Cook
> 
> For 2.3 or after:
> 
>      class Enumerate(object):
>          def __init__(self, names):
>              for number, name in enumerate(names.split()):
>                  setattr(self, name, number)
> 
> To use:
>      codes = Enumerate('FOO BAR BAZ')
>      codes.BAZ will be 2 and so on.
> 
> 
> if you only have 2.2, precede this with:
> 
>      from __future__ import generators
> 
>      def enumerate(iterable):
>          number = 0
>          for name in iterable:
>              yield number, name
>              number += 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> codes.BAZ
> 

We have some code which uses fancy cookbooked enumerate patterns but
they seem unnecessarily complex to me.  Even the pattern above is a
runtime build of what should be a static type definition.  Instead, in
any Python version, I use:

class Code:
   unknown=0
   FOO=1
   BAR=2
   BAZ=3

mycode=Code.unknown   #typical initialization

mycode=Code.FOO       #specific value assigned.

You get:
a) type-specific namespace

b) can choose the numbers (e.g., when they are predefined in a data
file format)

c) errors are detected

d) static assignment allows compiler optimizations (don't know if 
any are actually done).

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 342-5601



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Sep 11 18:19:52 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:19:52 -0400
Subject: getting ttf font/family name; fontTools?
In-Reply-To: <m2ad9bcbhy.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <m2ad9bcbhy.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <3F60F508.8030300@rogers.com>

TTFQuery does all this stuff (using fontTools).  Particularly the 
"describe" module in the package does the work of pulling apart the 
tables to get something useful:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ttfquery/
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/ttfquery/ttfquery/describe.py?rev=1.1.1.1&content-type=text/plain

You'll also find scripts similar to your "findfont" in the ttfquery 
package, e.g. family_query.py or metadata_query.py, which are built on 
the ttffiles.Registry object's various methods (particularly matchName).

TTFQuery will build its font-registry either by trying to guess the 
system paths, or by being given a directory in which to search (or both).

HTH,
Mike

John Hunter wrote:

>I would like to extract the font and family name from a TTF file.  I
>have been looking at fontTools ttLib, which parses the ttf file and
>provides lots of helpful information, but cannot find the name.
>
>  >>> from fontTools import ttLib
>  >>> tt = ttLib.TTFont("cour.ttf")
>
>tt['head'] seems like a good place to find it, but I can't.
>
>The data appear to be in the 'name' field
>
>  >>> s = tt.getTableData('name')
>  >>> s.find('Courier')
>  4197
>
>But I still don't know how to extract this information if I don't know
>the family/font name in advace.  Any ideas on how to best extract this
>info using fontTools or otherwise?
>
>What I am trying to do is find the best ttf font file for a given
>fontname, fontangle, and fontweight.  I plan to write my own font
>finder given a font name and font family from the ttf file, but if
>there is a better way to find ttf fonts let me know.  Eg, what I want
>to do is
>
>  ttfile = findfont('Courier', 'Italic', 'Bold') 
>
>and have findfont search some PATH containing TTF files and return the
>closest match, or a default if no good match is found.
>
>Thanks,
>John Hunter
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sun Sep 28 13:51:03 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:51:03 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it> <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com> <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com> <uy8w94wtz.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <lhacnvksb6ppje2lfogrqhv30rbcahgil2@4ax.com> <ulls92b18.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <136envcoppkt546p8rhjhpeqkj380a3g40@4ax.com>

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:22:11 -0400, David Abrahams
<dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:
>
>>>Sorry, what specialization?
>>
>> Presumably template specialisation - such that the special case of
>> std::pair<T,T> picks up the iterating functionality that
>> std::pair<T,U> lacks (begin, end etc). That is what I thought you were
>> saying.
>>
>> Or am I still getting this wrong?
>
>Yeah, slightly.  You don't need a begin() member function in order to
>make an iterator.  The interface might look like:
>
>  std::for_each(pair_iterator<T>(my_pair), pair_iterator<T>(), f);
>
>Decoupling is the way to go, man! :^)

Ah - I get it! - std::pair doesn't exactly support iteration itself,
but a support class can be used to add that capability.

You can do this in any language. For instance, did you know that
Python classes supports iterating through the subset of their
attribute that have names beginning with "a", interleaved with
insults? Yes, all you need is to use this generator...

  def A_Attrib_Gen (p_Instance) :
    for i in dir (p_Instance) :
      if i[0] = "a" :
        yield i
        yield "stupid stupid stupid"

Well, OK, maybe this is a little unfair - this generator isn't exactly
in the library, but with a little luck you see my point.

When you say "you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual
C++ iterator protocol" it implies to me that std::pair<T,T> provides
the iterator protocol itself - not that some other class provides a
way to support iteration over the pair. After all, there is *always*
some way to support iteration of *anything*.

But maybe I'm just being overliteral.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Sep 11 22:24:27 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:24:27 GMT
Subject: Parsing XML streams
References: <659f82ff.0309111530.c17e4a6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.11.22.24.34.290913@jerf.org>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:30:18 -0700, Peter Scott wrote:

> Is there some way to do this with the standard python xml parsers?
> Will I need to use PyXML? Or what?

xml.parsers.expat can parse things in pieces. It shouldn't be *too* much
work to convert over.



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Sep 23 05:33:24 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 11:33:24 +0200
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkicq0$vl5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <tyfvfrjhmsb.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> You could also let the factorial benefit from its own experience, e.g.,
> 
>  >>> def factorial(n, cache={}):
>  ...     fn = cache.get(n)
>  ...     if fn: print 'got cached %s!'%n; return fn
>  ...     if n<2: cache[n]=1; return 1
>  ...     return cache.setdefault(n, n*factorial(n-1))
>  ...

Or, you could let _any_ (keywordless) function benefit from its own
experience:

# General memoizer: takes a function as returns another function which
# has the same semantics as the original, but caches previously
# calculated values
def memoize(callable):
    cache = {}
    def proxy(*args):
        try: return cache[args]
        except KeyError: return cache.setdefault(args, callable(*args))
    return proxy

# A quick and dirty timer utility (timeit module in 2.3 ?), just to
# help us see how we're doing.
import time
def timer(fn, *args):
    start = time.time()
    val = fn(*args)
    stop = time.time()
    print "Took", stop-start, "seconds ..."
    return val

# The function we want to use
def factorial_rec(n):
  if n <= 1:
    return 1
  else:
    return n*factorial_rec(n-1)

# Now, make a cache-enabled version of your function
fact = memoize(factorial_rec)
# ... and use that, instead of the original ...

# See how long the bare function takes
print timer(factorial_rec, 100)

# The first call to the proxy will be slightly slower than the bare function
print timer(fact,100)

# But the second call with the same argument will be much faster
print timer(fact,100)

==================================================
Output:

Took 0.000393986701965 seconds ...
93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000
Took 0.000407934188843 seconds ...
93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000
Took 4.88758087158e-06 seconds ...
93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Sep 26 13:59:24 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:59:24 -0700
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu> <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
 "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

> Nope. Nor have I intimated I had such, nor that any would be forthcoming.
> This is a naming suggestion. I am neither the originator of the proposal nor
> a proponent of it, so I see no reason to formulate such a plan nor to give
> an explanation of how it should be accomplished. I saw a name, and offered
> another. That is all.
> 
> P1: "If I make this thing, I propose to call it 'ShomozzleBoB'."
> P2: "Really? How about just BoB?"
> P3: "Do you have a plan for how to do BoB?"
> P2: "Huh?"

Your proposed name has an implication for the semantics.  I was 
questioning the feasibility of the implied semantics.  I don't think 
you're let off the hook by the excuse that "it's only a name".

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From nospamius at lundhansen.dk  Sat Sep  6 05:43:34 2003
From: nospamius at lundhansen.dk (Bertel Lund Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:43:34 +0200
Subject: Unreachable
References: <mailman.1062835391.17240.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <30bjlv4lplntkhlneo6b66pciucjk8t5o0@news.stofanet.dk>

raizor at rtcwonline.com skrev:

>This email address is unreachable. It has been closed.

I wonder why this group is hit by so many messages that ought to
have been sent as personal mail?

-- 
Bertel, Denmark



From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Mon Sep 15 23:43:48 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:43:48 -0400
Subject: Web server with Python
In-Reply-To: <20030916014821.GB4093@frobozz>
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com> <mailman.1063352060.32640.python-list@python.org> <6o24mvcmksid33t4s9b8cbsrnctl5n2o6m@4ax.com> <mailman.1063518260.30336.python-list@python.org> <sf0cmvo2ccdqnnhe8bmvdfg5cj4099oav3@4ax.com> <20030916014821.GB4093@frobozz>
Message-ID: <3F6686F4.9020205@teksavvy.com>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:

>On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:18:25PM +0200, Patrick Useldinger wrote:
>  
>
>>On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:43:30 +1000, Andrew Bennetts
>><andrew-twisted at puzzling.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Eek!  Does 1.0.7 (just released) work any better?  Also, what platform are
>>>you using, and are you installing from the source .tar.gz or something else?
>>>      
>>>
>>I didn't try 1.0.7, didn't even know that it was out. 
>>I am on a WinXP box and used the prebuild binaries.
>>    
>>
>
>Ah, ok.  The prebuild binaries for Windows only work on one version, and I
>think the Windows maintainer has chosen to only support 2.2.  You're welcome
>to build your own from the source, or try to convince someone on IRC to
>build 2.3 binaries for you ;)
>
>Also, you don't need a compiler to use Twisted.  The C extensions are
>entirely optional, and just provide some optimisations over some of the
>equivalent pure python modules, but most users would probably never notice
>the difference.
>
>  
>
>>I have started digging into Medusa right now... and stay focused on
>>that one until I have a blocking problem or I get bored ;-)
>>    
>>
<insert clever joke about 
no-"blocking"-problems-in-an-asycn-select-based-web-server here>

If you'd like to use Medusa with less digging and much less boredom, I'd 
encourage you to check out the Quixote Web app framework, which runs 
beautifully on  Win32/Medusa (as well as a number of other front ends, 
including Twisted).

Personally I think it's nice to be able to write app code against a 
(lean, mean and delightful) framework, while maintaining the right to 
choose and switch between a range of Web servers. That's good separation 
of concerns.

Quixote has a shiny new advocacy site at http://quixote.ca/ and is 
available for download at http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/ .

>We'll be waiting ;)
>  
>

If Patrick gives Quixote a try, you might be waiting a while.  <double-wink>

Best wishes to all,

-- Graham






From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Sep 18 09:05:18 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:05:18 +0200
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com> <bkc5lv$5c4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <HBF.20030918w8nt@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <bkcajh$283$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Hallvard B Furuseth <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no> wrote:

>'closure' is a much-abused word.
>This is a closure over foo's x variable:

How about namespaces?

>def foo():
>  x = 3
>  def bar():
>    x += 1
>    return x
>  return bar
>
>f = foo()
>print f()  # print 4
>g = foo()
>print f()  # print 5
>print g()  # print 4
>
>...or it would be, if it worked.

This works:

def foo():
    class ns:pass
    ns.x = 3
    def bar():
        ns.x += 1
        return ns.x
    return bar

Anton




From xavim at fqingenieria.es  Tue Sep 30 10:04:26 2003
From: xavim at fqingenieria.es (Xavier Martinez)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:04:26 +0200
Subject: Tkinter not installed
References: <57efaf35.0309300435.8864896@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <002801c3875b$c2eb9aa0$0102a8c0@xavim>

>   Have a problem in python installation.I have already installed
> python 2.2 in my linux machine,but i guess tkinter packages were not
> selected then.Now i want to use tkinter as an interface for my
> program(actually i wanted to check if my python program written in
> windows side works fine on linux side also).
>     is there any way i can include the tkinter packages?if so where
> can i find those files?

It depends of what linux distribution are you using (you should 
specify it).  If you have a Debian box, simply type (as root):

$ apt-get install python2.2-tk

--
Xavier Martinez





From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 25 11:48:11 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:48:11 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <ad8tfdwv.fsf@python.net>
 <DdacnR-12Jpma--iU-KYvA@comcast.com>
 <mailman.1064501497.18527.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <he30euo4.fsf@python.net>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:

> I've been working on a simplistic implementation of such a run-time
> for my own projects. It's functional but very experimental (read: does
> what I need and not much else) and not well-documented or anything,
> but if anybody wants to play with what I've done so far just drop me a
> line. It's nice and small:
>
>   19,530 ctypes.zip
>   18,944 pycb.exe
>    1,908 pycbcom.tlb
>   19,456 pycbw.exe
>  445,952 python23.dll
>  749,092 python23.zip
>    3,072 w9xpopen.exe
>   20,480 _ctypes.pyd
>
> (1.2 MB total - has _socket, select, _winreg, etc built in to the main dll)

Interesting.

Is the python23.dll compressed,or did you leave features out?

>
> It registers itself as an ActiveX control so that from Internet
> Explorer you can have a web page query to see if the run-time has been
> installed (so that, e.g., you can have the user download the
> app+runtime or just the app).
>
> Small download size is a primary goal, with a close second being very
> little differentiation between the dev (.py) and release (.exe)
> environments (which has bitten me many times in the past). Thus I
> don't run python.exe any more at all for projects that will end up
> being distributed this way.
>
> The library also registers the .pycb extension with Windows (pycb =
> "Python code bundle") so that you can distribute your code in a small
> app.pycb file that, from the user's perspective, is an
> "executable". For example, for a personal project I just completed the
> entire distribution consisted of:
>
> venster.pycb (82k)
> main.pycb (15k)
>
> Under 100KB is not bad for a GUI app! :) 
>
> The .pycb format is basically ZIP + AES encryption, and pycb uses the new 
> import hooks in 2.3 to handle it. The encryption is just to keep honest 
> people out; anybody with the right combination of smart and bored could 
> figure out how to circumvent it.

Mark Hammond and I have also been hacking on a new py2exe version which
is somewhat similar, available in a CVS sandbox subdirectory.

It creates small exe-files (gui, console, service, or com), containing
the main script as marshaled code objects, together with a zipfile
containing the needed python modules, shared between these
exe-files. The zipfile is imported using the zipimport feature of 2.3.

The code is factored out so that it should even possible to add
encryption for the zipfile's contents, given that a customized
zipimporter is used.

Thomas



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Sep 24 14:18:03 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:18:03 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <tth3nvcb9oprv23bincf80c74051227vgv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vdlcb.287$kD3.194@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

[Raymond]
> >Abstract
> >========
> >
> >This proposal is to extend the API of several sequence types
> >to include methods for iterating over the sequence in reverse.

[Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou]
> -0
>
> I believe this should be a function in itertools.
>
> For indexable sequences, a little modification of itertools.islice would
> do the trick, since it can't at the moment; it's designed for forward
> iteration.
>
> Helpful error messages:
> >>> itertools.islice(lst, len(lst)-1, -1, -1)
> ValueError: Stop argument must be an integer or None.
> >>> itertools.islice(lst, len(lst)-1, None, -1)
> ValueError: Step must be one or larger for islice().
>
> For non-indexable sequences (eg a file object), things get hairier, but
> given enough memory, it's not hard.

Here's a quick and dirty implementation of your idea (kept separate
from islice for clarity).   On the plus side, it is somewhat clean and
easy to use.  On the minus side:
  * It's slower than custom iterator methods
  * It behaves badly with infinite iterators as inputs
  * For non-indexables, it silently transitions into a
     non-lazy, memory intensive mode with a long
     delay on the first call.  In my opinion, this defeats
     the purpose of using iterators in the first place.

def ireverse(obj):
    assert not hasattr(obj, 'keys')
    try:
        for i in xrange(len(obj)-1, -1, -1):
            yield obj[i]
    except (AttributeError, TypeError):
        x = list(obj)   # XXX fails with infinite iterators
        x.reverse()
        for elem in x:
            yield elem

for i in ireverse(xrange(5)):
    print i

for c in ireverse('abcde'):
    print c

for elem in ireverse(['atom', 'beta', 'curry']):
    print elem

for line in ireverse(file('/autoexec.bat')):
    print line.rstrip()

for x in reverse(itertools.count()):
    # Never gets here and Python dies with a MemoryError
    # from the infinite loop
    pass


Raymond Hettinger






From rowen at cesmail.net  Thu Sep 11 16:54:53 2003
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:54:53 -0700
Subject: mixing for x in file: and file.readline
Message-ID: <rowen-222487.13545311092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

At one time, mixing for x in file and readline was dangerous. For 
example:

for line in file:
  # read some lines from a file, then break
nextline = readline() # bad

would not do what a naive user might expect because the file iterator 
buffered data and readline did not read from that buffer. Hence the call 
to readline might unexpectedly skip some lines.

I stumbled across this the hard way, but am wondering if it's still 
present in Python 2.3. I thought I'd seen it documented recently, but 
looking through the description of the file object in the Python Library 
Reference, I didn't see it.

Anyone know if it's still an issue? If so, anyone have any idea how hard 
it would be to fix? I'm willing to work on a patch, but would probably 
need some help. And if experts have already determined it's too hard, 
and are willing to expain, I'd love some idea of why that is.

-- Russell



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Sep  4 20:22:09 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:22:09 -0400
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
In-Reply-To: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
Message-ID: <3F57D731.1090907@rogers.com>

Martin Christensen wrote:

>B = []
>for i in A:
>    if A.property():
>       B.append(i)
>  
>
B = [ i for i in A if i.property() ]

Seems elegant, but then I'd like dictionary-comps if they came along,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From llothar at web.de  Fri Sep 12 08:21:42 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 05:21:42 -0700
Subject: Is there a web templating system like ruby's amrita ?
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309120421.622cb55@posting.google.com>

I there anything that completely avoid the use of python code inside 
a template. I like the Amrita system because it allows me to design
the templates with WYSIWYG editors and blind text.



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Sep 15 10:51:25 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:51:25 -0400
Subject: list of lists
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <tHdZ/ks/KPIJ089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <bk4grj$me3$1 at news.uni-kl.de>, Tom <llafba at gmx.net> wrote:
>I have a list that consists of lists.
>E.g. T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
>Is there a way to address the a specific component in the "inner" list
>directly?
>E.g. right now I want to get the second value of the first list.
>Unfortunately I have to save it to a variable first and then read it.
>a = T[0]
>print a[1]

Anybody? :)

print T[0][1]

   Python syntax is pretty regular.  If T is a list, then
T[0] is the zero-th element of T. If T[0] is a list, then
T[0][1] is the 1-th element of T[0].  Works for tuples and
dictionaries too.

   Hairier, if F(a) returns a function object based somehow
on the value of a, then F(a)(b) will call that function with
an argument of b. And so, on and on.  Tuples of functions?
Functions returning dictionaries caching lists of functions?
...

        Regards.        Mel.



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Sep 29 19:43:02 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:43:02 -0700
Subject: Package question.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064863661.4154.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064863661.4154.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f78c386$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Ian Sparks wrote:
> ... On Windows, I want to set up a package structure like :
> Fred\
>   Bob\
>     test.py
> So I can say :
>     from Fred.Bob import *
> To do this I need to put the package on the python path. 
 > So I drop this into my python root in a file called Fred.pth :
>     C:\Fred\
> Now to make sure that Fred and Bob both look like packages with 
 > empty __init__.py files like so :
>     C:\Fred\
>        __init__.py
>     C:\Fred\Bob\
>        __init__.py
>        test.py

> so :
> C:\python.exe -c from Fred.Bob import *
> OK!
But this is a lucky accident.  If you do:
     import sys
     for number, name in enumerate(sys.path):
         print number, repr(path)
You'll see (I suspect) that '' is on your path, and the Fred.pth
value is irrelevant (it adds an entry for 'C:\\Fred\\', which allows
you to import from Bob, not Fred.  You Fred.pth file should list the
directory _containing_ Fred (in this case, 'C:\\', not 'C:\\Fred\\').

Note, you'll still be surprised soon, because I suspect you think
that after:
     from Fred.Bob import *
you can freely use:
     test.somefunction()

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Thu Sep 25 02:22:44 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:22:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <kgj3nvgn6cnp9u3f66cb2vtok697lgjt89@4ax.com> <3f721b0c-fce176ad-f4e1-4bdc-8527-cc05ef24ad42@news.szn.dk> <3F722887.F4521F68@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3f7289b4-d5928636-2b38-4329-ae4b-f09c5d0b3c44@news.szn.dk>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

>> killing blindly is bad programming practice.
>
> But he's killing with a signal of 0.  From kill(2):
>
>        If sig is 0, then no signal is sent, but error checking is
>        still performed.
>
> It's perfectly reasonable behavior to kill a process with a 0 signal;
> it does no harm.

I overlooked that detail, thanks for correcting me.


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From uce at ftc.gov  Mon Sep 22 17:46:35 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:46:35 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings - symetry with list types
In-Reply-To: <3ql141-hk4.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org> <zHadnfwvu-UmjvOiU-KYhw@comcast.com> <3ql141-hk4.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <ADGdnfO2Xvgp8PKiXTWJkg@comcast.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> Prior to the creation of string methods, you'd have done
> 
> import string
> 
> ...   string.join(blah, ' ')
> 
> 

Yes, it looks even worse that way. I guess that it's just rare to use a 
literal in the code as an object...I'm having trouble thinking of other 
situations where you use the ability, but I won't pretend to be an 
expert in the language.

>>not obvious and it looks like a hack, IMO. Plus you can't do
>>somestring = '%s %s %s' % [ 'nine', 'bladed', 'sword' ]
> 
> 
>         If you know both sides have equal numbers of terms (the %s matches the 
> number of entries in the list) you /can/ do a minor modification to 
> that line:
> 
> somestring = "%s %s %s" % tuple(["nine", "bladed", "sword"])

I just found it strange that you couldn't do it directly without 
'casting'...Probably doesn't come up much anyway. Now that I think about 
it it's an assignment so it's not really relevant to the discussion of 
mutable strings.

> 
>         Of course, you could also create a dictionary and store those as 
> attributes (though to my mind, you have a sword with one modifier 
> "nine-bladed"; as is it could be interpreted to mean nine 
> bladed-sword(s) -- though all swords are bladed...).
> 
> 
>>>>weapon = {"type":"Sword", "attribute":"bladed", "modifier":"nine"}
>>>>weapon
> 
> {'attribute': 'bladed', 'modifier': 'nine', 'type': 'Sword'}
> 
>>>>somestring = "%(modifier)s %(attribute)s %(type)s" % weapon
>>>>somestring
> 
> 'nine bladed Sword'
> 

All very handy, but I don't see how it could be done better with mutable 
strings. I need to come up with some examples of applications.




From cygwin-help at cygwin.com  Wed Sep  3 07:23:47 2003
From: cygwin-help at cygwin.com (cygwin-help at cygwin.com)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 11:23:47 -0000
Subject: WELCOME to cygwin@cygwin.com
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From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 18:34:26 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:34:26 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)
References: <mailman.1063741374.30034.python-list@python.org> <%PK9b.13530$x21.9926@twister.southeast.rr.com> <js2fmv4a19aajopm5ph0he94uqj8btd5c7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <SdM9b.13906$x21.7876@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou" <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message news:js2fmv4a19aajopm5ph0he94uqj8btd5c7 at 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:58:35 GMT, rumours say that "M-a-S"
> <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> might have written:
>
> >I thought somebody might have already done it w/o Pwm, with Tkinter only.
> >Bad luck.
>
> Idle has tooltips, and it's Tkinter only.  You already have the code;
> maybe ToolTip.py would be a good start :)

Great! Thanks.

> -- 
> TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
> Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.





From retype at terra.com.br  Tue Sep 23 13:53:14 2003
From: retype at terra.com.br (Leonardo Santagada)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:53:14 -0300
Subject: General Password questions
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695@riquito.matrix>
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <3F6F86A2.DC29472A@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix> <3F704A91.FA7D31F7@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695@riquito.matrix>
Message-ID: <3f70887f$1@news.terra.com.br>

Riccardo Attilio Galli wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:28:49 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you have misunderstood me(mmm, I hope it sound polite enough in
> english). An user should never enter the password again. I know how hashes
> work, and they're useful when I can compare an entered password with an
> hash value, but here I need that the user don't enter a password anymore
> (after the first time).
> 
> The natural use of the program would be:
> run the e-mail client for the first time
> user enter his e-mail password
> the client check for new mails
> user close the client.
> 
> while 1:
>   user run the e-mail client
>   the client check for new mails WITHOUT ask for a password
>   user close the client
> 
> I hope I was clearer. I think Richard got the point, whit a "sad but true"
> answer.
> 
> Ciao,
> Riccardo
> 
> 
I Really think he didn't understand you because hashing a password that 
you will need again isn't possible. You need to store the password in a 
crypt way, but I don't know how to generate the master password(the one 
that is used by the crypto program to encrypt the pop or imap 
passoword). I really don't understand a lot about encrypting something, 
but sha1 and md5 are not reversible. If they were, then I would download 
only the signature of a file and not the file. Now you need to know how 
mozilla does it.




From roy at panix.com  Tue Sep 23 09:55:25 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:55:25 -0400
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com> <3F7049D3.14C48D43@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <roy-0278AD.09552423092003@reader2.panix.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Roy Smith wrote:
> > 
> > I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some
> > point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost
> > certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince
> > them otherwise.
> 
> Do you need to convince them now, to allow you to continue working on it
> in Python, or are you just preparing for the time when they will come and
> ask for it to be done in Perl?

The latter.  It's currently a bit of a skunk works project.  At some 
point, when the time comes to actually allocate resources to this, some 
PHB will undoubtedly declare that it has to be done in Perl.  At that 
point, I'll need to be able to argue coherently why that's a bad idea.



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep 30 15:04:20 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:04:20 -0700
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <vndo742ca2f10@corp.supernews.com> <C30548A9-F240-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu> <mailman.1064845475.29494.python-list@python.org> <56e1eff0.0309292105.bab5a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F79D3B4.DBE550CC@alcyone.com>

Jean-S?bastien Bolduc wrote:

> I used to use the latter approach suggested by Gerrit, but I recently
> found on the web an alternative, elegant approach that might work
> (sorry, I don't recall where I found it!):
> 
> hasattr(x, '__int__')
> 
> If the "__int__" method is defined for "x", it is a number. This will
> work for integer, long, float and complex types, as well as for custom
> classes that emulate numeric types.

This is an insidiously bad idea, in my opinion.  All having an __int__
method means is there is some _conversion_ from an instance to an int
type.  It does not at all mean the custom instance spends most of its
life behaving as an integer.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We grow in time to trust the future for our answers.
\__/  Ruth Benedict



From john at rygannon.com  Thu Sep 11 07:26:11 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:26:11 GMT
Subject: Problems with setting up mod_python and Apache
References: <3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <4zK7b.11532$NW3.6643@news1.central.cox.net> <jXO7b.14165$NW3.10353@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3f605bee$0$199$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi Dave

I have fixed my problem with mod_python. I have one small problem left to
sort out. If I enter the URL http://localhost Apache just displays the
contents of the htdocs directory, but if I enter the URL
http://localhost/test.py everything works as it should. I guess this is
somewhat off topic since it appears to be an Apache configuration problem so
I hope you don't mind me asking you for your opinion on c.l.p.

BTW What I am trying to do is to move away from PHP. Since I use Python as
my primary scripting language for just about everything where you would use
a scripting language, it seems to me to be a reasonable idea to use Python
to provide dyanamic content for the web sites I look after.

-- 
Best Regards
John



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Sep  2 11:41:46 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:41:46 +0200
Subject: force gtk modal window to keep focus
In-Reply-To: <3a6e51c8.0309020731.1870c3c@posting.google.com>
References: <3a6e51c8.0309020731.1870c3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030902154146.GA18455@nl.linux.org>

brian wrote:
> I am beginner using Python 1.52, GTK 1.2.10, and Glade .0.6.2 to
> develop a gui which will kick off various scripts.

Python 1.5.2 is very old, over 4 years. You are strongly
encouraged to upgrade to a newer Python: make a large leap,
and upgrade to Python 2.3!

Sorry for not answering your question ;)

Gerrit.

-- 
116. If the prisoner die in prison from blows or maltreatment, the
master of the prisoner shall convict the merchant before the judge. If he
was a free-born man, the son of the merchant shall be put to death; if it
was a slave, he shall pay one-third of a mina of gold, and all that the
master of the prisoner gave he shall forfeit.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 04:14:00 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:14:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: os.listdir
References: <HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br> <mailman.1063171515.17609.python-list@python.org> <bjq102$m21$03$1@news.t-online.com> <Xns93F3A4DD43D3Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <bjq8pj$ho2$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F45C3A122C6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in
news:bjq8pj$ho2$04$1 at news.t-online.com: 

> "Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk>
> 
> [highly interesting details from Duncun]
> 
> Where did you get all these details - reading Python compiler source
> code? 

Sad to say, yes. Actually its mostly from reading the comments to the
source code and there is even a file 'dictnotes.txt' in the source which
describes a lot of the design decisions. See 

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/python/python/dist/src/Objects/dictnotes.txt
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/python/python/dist/src/Objects/dictobject.c




-- 
Duncan Booth                                            
duncan at rcp.co.uk int month(char
*p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3" 
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure? 



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 15:55:31 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:55:31 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com> <bjnslg$5fq$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <dc0vlvc0cd2npmkh4lki4mq25j3effh4r5@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:05:20 +0000 (UTC), JCM
<joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

>I enitirely missed the second half of your original post.  Oops.

It happens - you should see some of my goofs!




From theller at python.net  Sat Sep 27 15:16:50 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:16:50 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] [development doc updates]
In-Reply-To: <20030927190724.DDC8818F3E6@grendel.zope.com> (Fred L. Drake's
 message of "Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:07:24 -0400 (EDT)")
References: <20030927190724.DDC8818F3E6@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <vfreujml.fsf@python.net>

"Fred L. Drake" <fdrake at acm.org> writes:

> The development version of the documentation has been updated:
>
>     http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/
>
> The new glossary in the tutorial is really nice!

Sure, but the hyperlinks don't work ;-)

Thomas





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Sep  9 14:14:04 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:14:04 -0400
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
References: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <shhX/kKkX0HO092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com) wrote previously:
|"Metaclass Programming In Python, Parts 1 and 2"
|I get the fact that the instance of a metaclass is a class, but in
|this case I fail to see why the following does'nt work:

Read part 2 again.  It takes a while to sink in.

Your problem is that you aren't considering the MRO of Class:

  >>> class Meta(type):
  ...     def __str__(cls):     # Use 'return', not 'print'
  ...             return "I am " + repr(cls)
  ...     def foo(cls):
  ...             return "I am " + repr(cls)
  ...
  >>> Class = Meta("Fish", (), {})
  >>> Class.foo()
  "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"

Class is an instance of Meta, just like you expect.  Calling the .foo()
method shows this.  But when you call a method, the method name is
checked in the -method resolution order- (before the metaclass is
checked):

  >>> Class.mro()
  [<class '__main__.Fish'>, <type 'object'>]

Fish doesn't define a method .__str__(), so Python looks in Fish's
parent, object.  Well, object -does- define, .__str__(), so your call
resolves to:

  >>> object.__str__()
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  TypeError: descriptor '__str__' of 'object' object needs an argument

Of course, since object doesn't define a .foo(), resolution proceeds to
the metaclass.  If you want to get Class' metaclass method, you can let
Python do the magic for you:

  >>> str(Class)
  "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"

Or if you want to be really explicit:

  >>> Class.__class__.__str__(Class)
  "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"

Yours, David...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From cth at kyborg.dk  Mon Sep 22 08:15:31 2003
From: cth at kyborg.dk (Claus Hemdrup)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:15:31 +0200
Subject: ISDN / B-channel
Message-ID: <3f6ee79d$0$182$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

How do I read the B-channel?





From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Sep  8 08:04:32 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 14:04:32 +0200
Subject: Is there a unicode EOF mark like DOS ascii ctl-z or unix crl-d
 ?
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <m3n0df3ne4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <vlocr2dkq5sr1b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <wzfzj71o6n.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> (MG) wrote:

MG> Martin v. L?wis wrote:
>> No, there is no need to have one (neither is there a need to have one
>> for plain ASCII files): The end-of-file is when the file ends. Most
>> operating systems support a notion of a "file size", and the file ends
>> when file-size bytes have been consumed.
>> 
>> Why Microsoft decided to use ctr-z in text files is beyond me, it does
>> not fulfil any useful function...

MG> It came from CP/M, which believe it or not had *no* way to specify an exact
MG> file length. File lengths were measured in sectors, not bytes. So there had
MG> to be some way to tell where a text file ended, and CP/M used Ctrl+Z.

MG> MS-DOS picked up this convention, although if memory serves it always had
MG> exact file lengths even in version 1.0.

MG> Nobody uses Ctrl+Z in Windows/DOS text files any more, although I think the
MG> COPY command still respects it if you use the /A switch or concatenate
MG> files.

I believe even stdio respects it when a file is opened in text mode. This
is a common problem when people read binary files without specifying the
"b" modifier: Apart from the stripped CR bytes they are often surprised
that their programs stop reading early in the file. This even happens in
Python. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From anuradha.k.r at sify.com  Fri Sep 26 01:03:04 2003
From: anuradha.k.r at sify.com (anuradha.k.r at sify.com)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 22:03:04 -0700
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
References: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com> <bkroq8$8ud$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr> <8ad2cfb3.0309240628.dbbca33@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <57efaf35.0309252103.21565393@posting.google.com>

hi,
I 've already posted a message to this group but i think You guys can
provide a solution faster.My problem is similar ,my client side
(written in python) is not able to connect to  the server side
(written in C) in the same machine.
my server side works perfectly fine and it waits for a connection to b
established.However my client gives error "10061.connection
refused".Will send you the code of both server side and client side.:


server side:
------------
#include<stdio.h>
#include<winsock2.h>
#include <windows.h>

SOCKET recvSock,WinSocket,slisten;
WSADATA WSAData;
SOCKADDR_IN Acceptor;
SOCKADDR_IN Connector;
int TypeOfCon;
int Initialise();
SOCKET ListenSocket();
int RecvBuff(BYTE * RecdBuffer,int size);
void Close();
unsigned char * RecdBuffer;

int main()
{
	int flag;	
	flag = Initialise();
	slisten= ListenSocket();
	flag = RecvBuff(RecdBuffer,20);
	Close();
	return 1;
}

int Initialise()
{
	WSAStartup (MAKEWORD(1,1), &WSAData);
	WinSocket = socket (AF_INET/*2*/, SOCK_STREAM/*1*/, 0);
	recvSock = socket (AF_INET/*2*/, SOCK_STREAM/*1*/, 0);
	return 1;
}

SOCKET ListenSocket()
{
	int error;
	int sizeofaddr;
	sizeofaddr = sizeof(Acceptor);

	/*BOOL mcast ;
	mcast= TRUE;*/

	Acceptor.sin_addr.S_un.S_addr = htonl(INADDR_ANY);		
	Acceptor.sin_family = AF_INET;
	Acceptor.sin_port = 9999;

	bind(WinSocket,(const SOCKADDR *)&Acceptor,sizeof(Acceptor));
	error = GetLastError();
	if(error)
	{
		return 0;
	}

	listen(WinSocket,1);
	error = GetLastError();
	if(error)
	{
		return 0;
	}
	recvSock = accept((SOCKET)WinSocket,(SOCKADDR
*)&Acceptor,&sizeofaddr);

	error = GetLastError();
	if(error)
	{
		return 0;
	}
	return recvSock;

}

int RecvBuff(BYTE * Buffer,int size)
{
	int amount,error;

	amount = recv(recvSock,(char *)Buffer,size,0);
	error = GetLastError();
	if(error)
	{
		return 0;
	}
	else
		return 1;
}

void Close()
{
	closesocket(WinSocket);
	closesocket(recvSock);
}

client side:
-------------

import socket

#HOST = '130.10.5.38'    # The remote host
#PORT = 50007              # The same port as used by the server
try:
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
except socket.error:
    print 'socket not creadted'
try:
    s.connect(("130.10.5.38", 9999))
except socket.error,msg:
    print 'error in connect'
 
#s.send('Hello, world')
#data = s.recv(1024)
s.close()
#print 'Received', `data`

I'd gone thru the discussion above,so i guess probably the problem
with my code is also on the port address only.Pls help.
thanx,
AKR.


nick.keighley at marconi.com (Nick Keighley) wrote in message news:<8ad2cfb3.0309240628.dbbca33 at posting.google.com>...
> Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com> wrote in message news:<bkroq8$8ud$1 at news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>...
> > Nick Keighley wrote:
> > > I'm probably missing something rather obvious, but is there a known 
> > > problem with getting a Python based socket program to communicate with
> > > a C based socket program? A simple echo server written in Python
> > > (the example from Python in a Nutshell actually) will happily talk
> > > to a Python based client. If a C based client is substitued the connection
> > > is refused (or so the C client reports). The C client will talk to
> > > a C server.
> > 
> > Communications between C and Python via sockets definetly work: we do that 
> > every  day (no kidding ;-)
> > 
> > Can you post an example of your code?
> 
> by the time you read this the posted code may have appeared.
> A call to htons() (convert unsigned short to network byte order) 
> was ommitted on the C side.
> 
> this line:-
>      sin.sin_port = PORT;
> 
> should read:-
>     sin.sin_port = htons(PORT);
> 
> 
> thanks!



From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Sun Sep  7 07:51:10 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 13:51:10 +0200
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <bjebpo$h85$1@panix3.panix.com> <VlOdnTfgosIdRceiXTWJhg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bjf60f$iqc$07$1@news.t-online.com>

> 
> The current site is, for me, one of the most readable sites aronnd.
> The text colors work and it lets Internet Explorer adjust the text
> size.
> 
> The pollenation site is one of the worst I have seen.  The mockup page
> has teeny type that IE will not enlarge.  (Telling me to use another
> browser is besides the point.  Lots of people will continue to visit
> with IE even if I do switch.)  The comments page has barely readable
> dark-brown gray type on a lighter brown-gray background..  These pages
> should only be used as examples of what not to do and how not to spoil
> what we already have.

It is absolutely beyond me, how IE should display the mockpage any
differently than other browsers.
On Mozilla, the page loads as:

<body>
<img src="python-web6.png" />
</body>

Stephan




From thor__00 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 23:03:24 2003
From: thor__00 at yahoo.com (Thor)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 05:03:24 +0200
Subject: Optionmenu.
Message-ID: <bj7j47$g5rpn$1@ID-108351.news.uni-berlin.de>

I have the following function (with some things removed):

def add_stock():    
    stockw=Tk()
    stockw.title("New stock solution")
    sofl=Frame(stockw)
    sofl.pack()
    u=StringVar()
    u.set("M")
    cw=OptionMenu(sofl,u,"M","m","u","v","w")
    cw.grid(row=1,column=2)

but the widget keeps not showing teh selected option. If I fo the same out
of the function it works without problem (with stockw.mainloop()). What am
I missing? Anybody can point me out to the solution/the right webpage?
-- 
Thor -- Stockholm -- Sverige



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep  6 16:30:49 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:30:49 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <9oecnXGPy_Fn3seiXTWJiA@comcast.com>

"Harri Pesonen" <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message
news:Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874 at reader1.news.jippii.net...
> I agree, it's not logical.

Do my previous two responses today make the logic any clearer?

> I'm learning Python at the moment, and like it very much.

Try learning this.  Class K method attribute f with params (s, *rest)
can be called as K.f(Kinst, *rest), consistent with all other function
calls.

Abbreviation Kinst.f(*rest) makes the call look inconsistent by making
K inplicit (and moving Kinst), but the same inplicitness enables
runtime method lookup and superclass inheritance.  I think the
benefits that following are worth the minor bump in one's learning
curve.

Terry J. Reedy





From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Sep  7 15:26:41 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:26:41 +0200
Subject: python module for MS SQL Server 7 or 2000?
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0309071116.6f080c95@posting.google.com>
References: <c718a6cf.0309071116.6f080c95@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5B8671.8090103@ghaering.de>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> I have searched and only found references to using ODBC or some
> ancient posts about some ancient sybase library under linux, neither
> of which meets my critiera. [...]

Tried Google? Doesn't look like so:

http://www.google.com/search?q=python%20ms%20sql%20server

-- Gerhard




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 21:07:37 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:07:37 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
 <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx>         

"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote previously:
|Please could we move this discussion to one of the appropriate lists as
|well.  I suggest python-marketing to begin with.

A marketing list is just not an appropriate forum for discussing
redesigning the main python website.  The page www.python.org just
simply should not be driven primarily, or even significantly, by
"marketing" issues... it's us developers who use it, in the overwhelming
majority.

We developers should not be treated as second class Python users because
someone got the idea that the page should look like what PHBs expect.

On the other hand... it seems like an entirely different site could look
like that glossy pamphlet.  Maybe something like:

    http://python-business.com/

Or even:

    http://enterprise.python.com/

Just as long as the main page doesn't get majorly uglified.

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep  9 14:08:05 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:08:05 +0200
Subject: Errors while compiling SWIG wrappers on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <bjl1pm$2oi99$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
References: <bjl1pm$2oi99$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <bjl4u2$j22$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Schmitt wrote:
> I tried some hints I found on the web:
> "-shared" for compiling and linking.
> "-fPIC".
> "-Wl,-G".
> 
> But none of these (also in combinations) worked. Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> Michael
> 
> --------------------
> Text relocation remains                         referenced
>     against symbol                  offset      in file
> <unknown>                           0x2610      ../svm.o
> <unknown>                           0x2614      ../svm.o

svm.o is not position-independent. You need to compile *svm.o*
with -fPIC. Passing that option to any other compiler commands,
or the linker line, will be irrelevant. Once you've done that,
you may find that additional object files are not
position-independent, either, you then need to compile these
with -fPIC as well.

Regards,
Martin




From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Sat Sep  6 11:05:44 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:05:44 -0400
Subject: in CGI, how to include html pages?
Message-ID: <20030906110544.78d7ea33.python@sarcastic-horse.com>

Hi-

I'm writing some CGI stuff and I'm doing it in python to force myself to
learn the language.  Anyway,  I want to include some html at the top of
every page but I'm not sure how.

If the header is in header.html, what is the python-ese way of printing
that out in my html?

Thanks for the help.




From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Thu Sep 11 23:03:24 2003
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Fearless Freep)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 20:03:24 -0700
Subject: Overlaying transparent images with PIL
Message-ID: <7d3dc526.0309111903.2a4a044@posting.google.com>

I know there's a PIL mailing list but I thought I would try the
question here as well.

I'm using PIL on Python 1.5.2 (stop laughing, it's what the ISP has
for CGI and I don't have a choice)


Anyway.  I have a basic image and I need to overlay an image on top of
it and let some of the basic image show through.  Just as an aside the
images are not of the same size and the top image needs to be pasted
over the underlying image at an offset from the origin.

I thought using GIF with transparency would do the trick but it
doesn't seem to be working.

Here's an example of what I am doing
---------------

background = Image.open ("images/background.gif")
overlay = Image.open ("images/overlay1.gif")

overlaySize = overlay.size

# a box for the overlay dimensions...offset by 100,200
overlayBox = (100, 200, 100 + overlaySize[0], 200 + overlaySize[1])

background.paste (overlay, overlayBox)
backgroud.save ("images/tempfile.gif", "GIF")
----------------

Now, overlay2.gif is a gif file with a some transparency.  However,
where the transparency is becomes white instead.


I suspect that I a mask image will be involved in the solution, but
I'm not sure how to make a mask for my overlay image, or how to use
it.

Any suggestions?

Take care,
Jay O'Connor
http://www.cybermesa.com/~joconnor/r4hsoftware
 - Custom Web and Application Software for Small Businesses



---------------



From pythonhda at yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux  Thu Sep 11 20:59:51 2003
From: pythonhda at yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux (pythonhda)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:59:51 -0400
Subject: a quick program to download tv listings
References: <1f0bdf30.0309102237.d29f0de@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030911205951.7ec85d81.pythonhda@yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux>

On 10 Sep 2003 23:37:47 -0700
prochak at netzero.net (Erik Lechak) wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Is there anyone out there that has written anything in python to
> download tv listings (no XML)?
> 
> All the tv listing stuff that I can find is way too complex for my
> taste (includes XML overkill or is not in python).  I wrote the test
> program below and it works.  I am just curious if anyone has a more
> robust python implementation before I take the time to add all the
> bells and whistles.
> 
> ...

I felt the same way about the XML stuff, so what I did for a project was subclass the sgmllib.SGMLParser and use it to parse channel listings from tvlistings.zap2it.com. Their HTML was pretty bad so I had to write "clean up scripts" to strip out all the crap before I used the parser though.

Take a look at ClientCookie [ http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/ ] if you want to be able to login and personalize your listings before you download the HTML.




From cnetzer at sonic.net  Mon Sep  1 04:10:46 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 01:10:46 -0700
Subject: Declaration of an array of unspecified size
In-Reply-To: <n9q5lvscj9d6i083go88a9js7cc8g7c4ig@news.stofanet.dk>
References: <m814lvc8h44vbd5g1m2iv05r33qg8ag9ta@news.stofanet.dk>
	 <biu6k0$c8fs4$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
	 <n9q5lvscj9d6i083go88a9js7cc8g7c4ig@news.stofanet.dk>
Message-ID: <1062403846.1853.99.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Sun, 2003-08-31 at 23:43, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Ulrich Petri skrev:

> >>     self.mails=len(pop.list()[1])
> >you can skip the "mails" variable. len(mail) will give the same.
> 
> Yes, I saw that in another posting. But I have a habit that I
> aquired working with slow computers: always to substitute
> function-calls with variables (faster). Is that a bad habit?

Yes, because of the word "always".  If you mean that literally, then I
would consider it VERY bad style (sorry; no offense meant).  This habit
can be quite error prone, just because it is possible, even common, for
your length variable to become out of sync with the true list length. 
These kinds of bugs can be very difficult to track down.

It is best to use this habit sparingly, such as when you know your
algorithm won't change the list, and you use the line length several
times in quick succession, or in a small loop.  That kind of thing is
done all the time, on a very limited and local scale, and isn't
necessarily bad.  But don't always do it just for the sake of doing it. 
Only do it where it is a known bottleneck (or you know it will remain
coorect, and it makes the code easier to express)

Python's lists are not 'linked lists', btw, and the length operation is
very fast (O(1)), because the length is always known exactly, and can be
gotten with a fast lookup (ie. it doesn't have to count).  The function
call overhead in python is a bit high, but presumably your program calls
LOTS of functions; a few more len() calls will have virtually no effect,
outside of loops.

Finally, you can google for the term "memoize python" on Google, which
will demonstrate a technique for automatically caching function call
results, which you may find interesting.

-- 
Chad Netzer





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Sep  3 19:56:22 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Francois Pinard)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 19:56:22 -0400
Subject: Quickie mail.python.org status
In-Reply-To: <727daa7e.0309031140.1af820b2@posting.google.com>
References: <727daa7e.0309031140.1af820b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oqhe3tv32x.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Skip Montanaro]

> They said it was going to be bad after everyone returned from the long
> holiday and late-summer vacations.  I guess they were right...

On the other hand, I've read somewhere (on the Symantec site, I think), that
at least some varieties of the virus will turn themselves off on September
9'th.  I do not understand why the bad guys would have programmed such a
deadline within their code, but I still wish this deadline story is true!

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From tjg at craigelachie.org  Sat Sep  6 21:35:43 2003
From: tjg at craigelachie.org (Timothy Grant)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:35:43 -0700
Subject: OT: best book in years
In-Reply-To: <bjcspl$6l4$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F5891C8.A7DD1A20@hotmail.com> <bjcspl$6l4$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <200309061835.44498.tjg@craigelachie.org>

On Saturday 06 September 2003 08:00 am, Aahz wrote:
> In article <3F5891C8.A7DD1A20 at hotmail.com>,
>
> Alan Kennedy  <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On a lighter note, a fantastic book that I really enjoyed reading (for
> >leisure) was

> Military SF: David Weber (start with _On Basilisk Station_) or Lois
> McMaster Bujold (start with _Shards of Honor_, but don't read _Barrayar_
> yet if you pick up the _Cordelia's Honor_ omnibus).

I was wondering if anyone was going to mention Weber and Harrington. My wife 
bought me _War_of_Honor_ for Christmas last year, solely because I wanted to 
support a company that would put a CD of an entire fiction series in the back 
of a book.

I'm not a science fiction fan in anyway shape or form--or should I say wasn't.
I'm a few chapters in to _Ashes_of_Victory_ now, and have not had anywhere 
near so much fun reading anything in years as the Honor Harrington books. I 
loved Forrester's Hornblower, and now I love Weber's Harington.

-- 
Stand Fast,
    tjg.

Timothy Grant
www.craigelachie.org





From http  Sun Sep 14 17:12:52 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Sep 2003 14:12:52 -0700
Subject: Java Checked Exceptions
References: <8ef9bea6.0309140709.14fc9712@posting.google.com> <7xy8wr45b9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <vm9jb72n610l88@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7xd6e3vzu3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
> My take on the issue is that at the time Java was designed,
> the whole notion of checked exceptions was a hot topic in
> the academic and language design community, and so it got
> in before there was enough experience with using it in large
> programs to show that it simply didn't scale well.

But I thought Ada uses checked exceptions, and huge systems have been
built in Ada.  What's the deal?



From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Tue Sep 16 15:01:37 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:01:37 +0400
Subject: why pass statement?
In-Reply-To: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com>
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bk7mm4$4s$2@news.peterlink.ru>

M-a-S wrote:

> Why is there the pass statement? I think, the expression statement would be enough:
> 
> class C:
>     None
> 
> while True:
>     None
> 
No. None is just a value (now variable), not a statment.

hth,
anton.





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Sep 30 13:13:57 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:13:57 -0400
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>
 <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org>
 <3f7918e1-cebe25d5-ba02-4762-ae3e-ad3bb70874cb@news.szn.dk>
 <_e9eb.9852$NX3.7090@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Vnbe/kKkXgrE092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|> > So I only expect around 5,428,681 primes less than 10^8 to occur.
|> > Well, that's not SO much less than 7.8M.

|Klaus Alexander Seistrup
|> I found 5,761,455 primes < 1E8.

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote previously:
|http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/howmany.shtml has the same number.
|(found by googling for "5,761,455" - 3rd hit. :)

Looking at Andrew's resource, I am reminded that N/(log(N)-1) is a
better approximation for "primes up to N" than was Gauss' original.  Of
course, as I wrote, both are accurate at the asymptote.  But infinity is
a long way to go.

    >>> N = 10**8
    >>> N/(log(N)-1)
    5740303.8072846411

That looks assuringly closer to the specific total than my first pass.
Obviously, enumeration of all the primes in the range is still more
accurate than any such approximation formula (some further such
approximations can be found at the above URL, and elsewhere).

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  2 11:23:28 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:23:28 -0700
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
References: <3285.208.224.10.29.1062445601.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net> <mailman.1062448983.22163.python-list@python.org> <bj0tgc$e4kup$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <bj1khn$iu9$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <bj2cdf$csq7a$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| Frames don't have titles, but toplevels do.
| Try using the 'title()' method of the toplevel widget.

Daniel ...

    Thanks for the reply ...

    I'm familar with applying the  title()  method
    to a Tkinter root or Toplevel object, but couldn't
    figure out how to change the title on a sub-classed frame
    like the one Jp posted after noticing a default title
    of  tk  in the titlebar of the rendered window ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From max at alcyone.com  Sun Sep 14 21:11:41 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:11:41 -0700
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <bk2okk$nrhg9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <75b7596ef938ab8af18b663ddd7eaf50@news.teranews.com> <yu994qzeoqsn.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <3F6511CD.EF0909CB@alcyone.com>

Andrew Koenig wrote:

> How about this instead:
> 
>         def make_generator(func):
>             while x = func():
                    ^^^^^^^^^^

Not too likely in Python :-).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Youth is a period of missed opportunities.
\__/  Cyril Connolly



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Sep 21 16:59:34 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:59:34 +0200
Subject: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?)
In-Reply-To: <87y8wh50ca.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <87y8wh50ca.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bkl3fe$fst$01$1@news.t-online.com>

John J. Lee wrote:

>>>locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ("no", None))
> 
> [...]
> 
>>If this did work, then you can use the DSU pattern like so:
> 
> [...strxfrm...]
> 
> The advantage of which is that you don't have to mess with the locale.

No, it doesn't. strxfrm requires that the locale is adjusted to the
desired LC_COLLATE facet. Otherwise, it will collate according to the
C locale (in which case strxfrm is the identity).

Regards,
Martin




From cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com  Sun Sep 21 15:25:58 2003
From: cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com (Cy Edmunds)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:25:58 GMT
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aXmbb.137373$7G2.7005@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"rhmd" <rh4170056 at juno.com> wrote in message
news:616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d at posting.google.com...
> Just found Python and I love it.  What an elegant language!

Yeah, me too. :)

>    I would like to use it for various applications, but the
> mathematical calculations are way too slow (a million sines 8 seconds
> in Python vs. 2 seconds in Excel VBA), so was thinking of learning
> enough C++ to do the number crunching in C++ and integrating the C++
> routines with Python.

This one really has me squirming in my seat. C++ isn't a very good language
for learning just a little bit of. Compared to Python I would say the
learning curve is much steeper. It offers a lot of control over how the
object code is generated but that also makes it dangerous for casual users.
If you do it wrong a lot of bad things can happen, including poor
performance -- although poor performance would perhaps be the best of those
bad things!

I suggest you look at various Python libraries to do whatever numerical
processing you might need to do. They are mostly written in C anyway so
their performance is excellent. For instance, I use SciPy for Fourier
analysis and PIL for image processing, getting good performance on these
numerically intensive tasks without ever leaving the ease and comfort of
good old Python.

My question:
>    My question:
>    Which compiler works best with Python?

I wouldn't choose your C++ compiler for Python compatibility. How good is
the debugger? How is the standards conformance? C++ compilers vary widely in
these and other important criteria.

> I use Windows XP and 98.  Have very little experience with C++.  Am
> doing statistical and other simulations that require billions of
> calculations (taking 1 to 2 hours in Excel VBA).

Take a look at the UVS library under my sig for some C++ code which I have
found useful for statistical simulations.

GCC is free, MS
> C++.Net is affordable at <$100 but supposedly has problems until the
> next version (and I could only use it on my XP machine), older
> versions of MS C++ are no longer for sale.  What's the most robust
> solution?

The .NET compiler has a very good debugger and much better standard
compliance than the old 6.0 compiler, but I haven't used  lot of different
recent vintage C++ compilers.

I would also like to make .dll files that I can plug into
> MS Excel.

I generally use COM objects written in Python to connect to Excel. I am very
pleased with that technique.

http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

>    Sorry for the vagueness of this question, but I'm sure many of you
> have experience with this and any information, opinions, and even
> prejudices about the various compilers are welcome.
>    Thanks.

-- 
Cy
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/





From sfb at alysseum.com  Thu Sep 18 14:34:44 2003
From: sfb at alysseum.com (Simon Bayling)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:34:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns93FAC750B300Ek23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>

Since you mention this, on my windows dual-monitor setup, The BlackAdder 
splash screen and tips box open in the middle, spanning the gap between 
displays...

Cheers,
Simon.

> Freeback,
> suggestions, criticism (good or bad), etc is essential for the
> developement and improvement of any software project. I will make sure





From peterm at resmed.com.au  Mon Sep 29 16:07:25 2003
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:07:25 +1000
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list@python.org> <EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305@fed1read04> <ToKdb.9$t44.805@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F782D20.5BB43A1F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1i0eb.275$t44.11623@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi Peter,

No, I caught all of the dependencies that are required (common libraries and
optik - I think that is all that is required). I installed both of them
before attempting to run pylint and still received that error. Perhaps the
install is order dependent i.e. I installed pylint, then the "common
libraries" then the optik package.

Does Pylint work for you?

Peter

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F782D20.5BB43A1F at engcorp.com...
> Peter Milliken wrote:
> >
> > I get the same error.
> [snip]
> > (I have a personal hangup with people who
> > write good, useful packages and then don't bother documenting them -
life is
> > just too short to read somebody else'e code to get around this
deficiency
> > :-) I get frustrated however when I think there is something that I
could be
> > taking advantage of but something as simple as the lack of 0.5hr of
> > documentation stops me :-( ).
>
> Maybe RTFM would help.  See
http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint/documentation and
> note the "dependancies" (sic) line which states "Pylint requires the
> logilab-common(version >= 0.2.1) and the optik packages."
>
> If you download the "Common libraries" from the links provided on that
page,
> I suspect it will work better.
>
> Unfortunately, by posting the direct link to the download I suspect
Alexandre
> led people astray by implying that a single download might be enough to
make
> this work.
>
> -Peter





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 08:54:20 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:54:20 GMT
Subject: Using Python under ASP
References: <bjmiej$ihe$1@voodoo.volia.net>
Message-ID: <0g_7b.169$o71.168@news2.central.cox.net>

"Max Ischenko" <max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it> wrote in message
news:bjmiej$ihe$1 at voodoo.volia.net...
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm using Python under ASP env. and have a question about how to
> communicate Python snippets in different pages.
>
> For example, I'd like to create a per-session object of class FooBar and
> be able to access it from any page. How could I do this?
>
> I can't store anything complicated in a Session.

Why not? Because Microsoft says so? Becuase your employer says so? What's
"complicated"?

Initially, MS promoted the Session object as the place to store session
state. Then they found that uninformed idiots were saving stupid things like
large ADO resordsets in Session in large numbers, and getting locking and/or
synchronization problems across multiple sessions. Who would have thought
that crappy design could have resulted in crappy performance? Also, the
larger players complained that the mechanism didn't scale across multiple
servers (because it's host-specific).

So the conventional advice became "don't store complex objects in Session,
find some other mechanism". And software vendors and authors made stacks of
money creating and writing about replacement mechanisms.

> Someone here propose pickle/unpickle an object to the string but that
> feels like a kludge. Should I setup some global hash, keyed by SessionID
> to store data there?
>

If you can convince me that this will actually generate any saving then you
might try it, but personally I'd try saving it in Session and seeing whether
that worked OK for your application. The advantage of pickling would be that
you aren't leaving a reference to an object lying around between page
invocations,.

One last point: if the reason you "can't save anything complicated in a
Session" is because your employer's programming standards say so, then a)
ask them to define "complicated", and b) start dicreetly looking for new
employment :-)

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Sep  5 23:28:55 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:28:55 -0400
Subject: Python port to Swiss Ephemeris work with 2.3?
In-Reply-To: <20030906031459.GA1186@isis.gerrietts.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEJBFLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[John Roth]
>> You need to recompile using the same compiler that Python was
>> compiled with (I believe that's VC 6 for the Windows version.)
>> Extension modules ***always*** need to be recompiled for major
>> Python releases.

[Geoff Gerrietts]
> Is that really true under Windows?

Yes, and also for minor releases (the j in i.j.k).

> It's not true on Unix releases:

Also true.

> Guido takes exquisite care to make sure that Python releases are
> binary-compatible. Is it possible that moving the file around somehow
> might make Python sufficiently aware?

Nope.  On Windows, the core DLL is named differently for each minor release
(e.g., Python22.dll for all 2.2.k releases, but Python23.dll for all 2.3.k
releases), and extension modules have the name of the DLL they require
embedded in them.  This makes it very easy to have multiple versions of
Python installed on Windows, which is harder than it is on Linux because the
core DLLs usually end up in the same magical (to Windows) "system
directory".  OTOH, it can be a PITA for people using lots of extension
modules on Windows.

> Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
> -rw-rw-rw-:         permissions of the beast

LOL!





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 10 21:17:46 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:17:46 -0400
Subject: Trouble Learning Zope
References: <slrnblvhla.575.rparnes@fruitbowl.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3F5FCD3A.ACB83234@engcorp.com>

Bob Parnes wrote:
> 
> I just installed zope, version 2.6.1-10 on a debian distribution, but I
> cannot get to second base. When I try to add the tutorial to a folder, I
> get an error message stating that an emergency user cannot own an
> object. So I clicked onto the help page and found the tutorial there.
> But I got the same error when I tried to follow it. Then I created a new
> user account and restarted zope. But it would not accept a login as the
> new user, only as the original, 'emergency' user. As things stand, I can
> bring up zope on my browser but cannot do anything in it.
> 
> What can I do to straighten things out. Thanks for any help.

1. When you create the new user, make sure you've set it up for "manager"
privileges.

2. Subscribe to the zope mailing list, as this newsgroup does relatively
little support for Zope while the mailing list is the place to be...
(see the Zope web site to subscribe).

-Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 29 09:01:20 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:01:20 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list@python.org> <EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305@fed1read04> <ToKdb.9$t44.805@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F782D20.5BB43A1F@engcorp.com>

Peter Milliken wrote:
> 
> I get the same error.
[snip]
> (I have a personal hangup with people who
> write good, useful packages and then don't bother documenting them - life is
> just too short to read somebody else'e code to get around this deficiency
> :-) I get frustrated however when I think there is something that I could be
> taking advantage of but something as simple as the lack of 0.5hr of
> documentation stops me :-( ).

Maybe RTFM would help.  See http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint/documentation and
note the "dependancies" (sic) line which states "Pylint requires the 
logilab-common(version >= 0.2.1) and the optik packages."

If you download the "Common libraries" from the links provided on that page,
I suspect it will work better.

Unfortunately, by posting the direct link to the download I suspect Alexandre
led people astray by implying that a single download might be enough to make
this work.

-Peter



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Sep 18 20:32:14 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:32:14 -0500
Subject: Forcing getopt to process a specific option first??
In-Reply-To: <3F69F6C3.50605@asml.nl>
References: <bkcnkd$8ml6$1@ID-122008.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063904906.2762.python-list@python.org> <3F69F6C3.50605@asml.nl>
Message-ID: <20030919003208.GB9792@unpythonic.net>

Care for another solution?

I'd simply do two passes over the argument list.  This has an advantage
over both the other alternatives proposed.  First, it works if the user
writes something like "-bccf" (equivalent to the arguments ["-b", "-c", "cf"]),
and second it works with repeated options like [-a", "x", "-a", "y"].

This doesn't work if something in the configuration file could affect
the available set of commandline switches.  There may be some other
shortcoming I haven't considered yet, too.

Jeff

########################################################################
# Program
import getopt

def main(argv):
        args, rest = getopt.getopt(argv, "c:a:b")

        # First pass, parse any -c option
        for k, v in args:
                if k == "-c":
                        print "Using config file", v

        # Next, parse the other options
        for k, v in args:
                if k == "-c": continue
		print "Processing switch", k, v


	print "Remaining positional arguments", rest
argv = "-a x -bccf -a y ...".split()
main(argv)

########################################################################
# Output
Using config file cf
Processing switch -a x
Processing switch -b 
Processing switch -a y
Remaining positional arguments ['...']




From danielk at aracnet.com  Sat Sep  6 21:49:41 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 18:49:41 -0700
Subject: [2.3] object does not appear to be a reserved word
References: <v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8@4ax.com> <vlkeevoosut157@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <nh3llvkgikus3a7663l8m4rgpdo97d3p0n@4ax.com>

Thanks John., that's what I suspected.

This particular module uses the variable 'object' as an argument to
several methods and functions. I'll probably change it anyway, but I
was just curious as to why it seemed to run ok.

Thanks again for the confirmation.

Dan

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:47:07 -0400, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message
>news:v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8 at 4ax.com...
>> Is it potentially dangerous to use the variable 'object' in code?
>
>"object" is, I believe, a built-in type in the builtins namespace.
>As such,  you can shadow it so it's inacessable. However,
>the only place were that could cause problems is if you
>use it as an identifier at the module level. I think.
>
>John Roth
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Daniel Klein
>




From selwyn at home.net.nz  Tue Sep 30 05:56:42 2003
From: selwyn at home.net.nz (selwyn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:56:42 +1200
Subject: Python mascot? How about a Pythoneer?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064862939.22993.python-list@python.org>
References: <1064860580.3f787ba4b7295@mcherm.com> <mailman.1064862939.22993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <loceb.5114$tv1.576662@news02.tsnz.net>

[snip]

> I agree. See Disney's Robin Hood and Jungle Book for creative ways of using 
> snake characters. Also, a lack of arms never stopped Homestar Runner[1] from 
> eating, reading, etc. :)
> 
> -Dave
> 
> [1] http://www.homestarrunner.com
> 

that goes for the blue racer as well!!!
http://lostkartoon.tripod.com/blueracer.htm




From mark at diversiform.com  Tue Sep  9 12:39:05 2003
From: mark at diversiform.com (mark)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:39:05 -0700
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.
In-Reply-To: <56665.199.169.240.132.1063120715.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <004601c376f0$e36e6f80$5501a8c0@markxp>

This isn't a terribly helpful post, but I wrote a script that would
collect data from a database using an SQL query.  This data was written
to a file which was then imported into Excel using a macro to do all the
sorting and chart creation.  I guess there's a learning curve either
way, but it is another way to go about it, since you mentioned that
you're using Excel already.

I believe it's possible to call out an instance of Excel and provide
arguments to tell it which file to open and what to do with it.  I'm
sure there's someone here with a better idea on exactly how to do that
(I didn't get that far before I changed jobs).


- Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of python at sarcastic-horse.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 8:19 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.

Hi-


My office produces a lot of charts based on time-series data.  We use MS
powerpoint and excel to make these charts.  The data gets updated
regularly, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to automate updating
the charts using these packages.  So, we spend a non-trivial amount of
time manually updating lots of spreadsheets to redraw the charts we
need.

I hope to find some sort of python graphics library that can make charts
similar to Excel and Powerpoint, and then I can start automating these
tasks.

Here is an example of the charts we make:

http://www.sarcastic-horse.com/example.pdf #52k size file.

Are there any packages that can do similar charts?  I need to be able to
chart time-series data with occasional missing observations.  I also
need
to be able to shade some regions of the charts, and add text titles,
captions and notes.

I'm (slowly) learning the reportlab package, and it looks good, but I
wanted to check if there was an even better solution out there.

Thanks for the help.

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list






From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Sep  1 18:01:12 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:01:12 +0100
Subject: exception question
References: <lfp4lv8krqakeea3d0k0tcm86mb2mnf2v3@4ax.com> <bj0ahs$mpa$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <t6g7lvgmefagi6aqbs684aiqv130launn3@4ax.com>

On 1 Sep 2003 20:35:08 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:22:15 +0100, Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>For error processing I found convenient maintaining a dictionary where
>>the keys are exception *classes* and the values are callables. Of
>>course, for this to work, exception classes have to be hashable which
>>I happily found that they were. So my question is, can I count on this
>>behaviour? Or is this behaviour I should not count on? (I found
>>nothing on the docs about it, thus the question).
>>
>Would the class name strings work for you, to avoid the issue?
>

Yes! Thanks! It's not as pretty but it will work perfectly.

I may still harass the python-dev folks as suggested though ;-)

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  4 00:23:00 2003
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 21:23:00 -0700
Subject: Active Scripting in Python
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0309032023.4038d00c@posting.google.com>

I donwloaded win32all for Python 2.3 and installed it.

I manually run pyscript.py and it returned "successfully registered"
message.

For a simple test(on client side), I created the following html:

<script language=Python>
alert("hello world")
</script>

And opened it in IE6.0 on WinXP.  Unfortunately, it doesn't show
anything.

After googling, I tried "pyscript.py --debug" and the trace collector
shows:

Object with win32trace dispatcher created (object=None)
 in _InvokeEx_ with GetInterfaceSafetyOptions 0 1
(IID('{BB1A2AE2-A4F9-11CF-8F20-00805F2CD064}'),) None None
in _InvokeEx_ with GetInterfaceSafetyOptions 0 1
(IID('{BB1A2AE1-A4F9-11CF-8F20-00805F2CD064}'),) None None

Am I doing something stupid?

Jane



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Sep 22 01:01:14 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:01:14 -0400
Subject: Toronto Pythonistas, don't forget the PyGTA meeting this Tuesday...
Message-ID: <3F6E821A.2050504@rogers.com>

8PM, usual place, (519 Community Centre).  You can find all the details 
here:

    http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/NextMeeting

Enjoy, and hope to see you all out,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Fri Sep  5 23:01:49 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 23:01:49 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3brty8vs2.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

> So I should contribute another clasical book:
> Hofstadter: Goedel Escher Bach

Good god, man! The guy's already going to be in the hospital. GEB is
something that should be tackled at full health. 

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From cavok at freemail.it  Thu Sep  4 19:13:30 2003
From: cavok at freemail.it (Domenico Andreoli)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:13:30 GMT
Subject: this is my own python-setuid.c
In-Reply-To: <IaP5b.292632$Ny5.9039455@twister2.libero.it>
References: <IaP5b.292632$Ny5.9039455@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <uGP5b.292784$lK4.9115394@twister1.libero.it>

Domenico Andreoli wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>   I did a little research about execution of Python setuid scripts. I 
> found only a couple of C wrappers I don't like. So I wrote my own, it is 
> available at [0]. Feel free to send comments.
> 

yes, it is heavily based on the one found in the Python source tree.

-----[ Domenico Andreoli, aka cavok
  --[ http://filibusta.crema.unimi.it/~cavok/gpgkey.asc
    ---[ 3A0F 2F80 F79C 678A 8936  4FEE 0677 9033 A20E BC50




From xnews at fredp.lautre.net  Wed Sep 17 12:30:08 2003
From: xnews at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 16:30:08 GMT
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org> <slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>
Message-ID: <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75>

Mirko Zeibig <mirko-lists at zeibig.net> said :

> Especially useful together with the locals() function, which returns a
> dictionary of locally defined variables:
> 
> def foo():
>     a = "Hello"
>     b = "World"
>     print "%(a)s %(b)s" % locals()

Yes, that's a wonderful feature. Recently though, I've wondered a couple of 
times : is there an easy way to substitute with both local AND global 
variables ?...


-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/



From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep  9 14:25:00 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:25:00 +0200
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f5e1aaf@news.swissonline.ch>

Hi David,

1) WingIDE
2) Komodo
3) IDLE
And now for something completely different:
4) The really world's best outliner (man, I tried quite a few) and Literate
Programming Tool: Leo


Best regards
Franz GEIGER

P.S.: I've listed Leo as (4) because I do not use it for programming, but
others do, with great success by the way. I use it to organize my projects,
contacts, as calender, as - well, for each and everything. And thru its
Clone-feature everything is always just a click away from where I am in my
outlines. And it's scriptable and and and. In short: I organize myself with
Leo. I do this since April 2003, still with great pleasure. Using Leo is
like programming Python: Each day's a pleasure like the first day. So, would
you have asked for PIMs to be suggested I would have written
1) Leo
2) Leo
3) Leo
4) Leo
Sory, I'm getting OT now...


"David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org...
> Pythonistas,
>
> My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
> _Charming Python_ a couple years back.  Now I have another such roundup
> lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.
>
> In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
> IDE.  I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
> announcements.  But really I just use text editors and command lines.
>
> Here's the thing:  I probably have room to look at about four different
> tools in one article.  In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
> Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
> in the available words.  I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
> -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.
>
> So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
> list.  I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
> prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
> copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
>
> Yours, David...
>
> --
>     _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises
_/_/_/
>    _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_/_/
>   _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
>  _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/
>
>





From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 22 07:05:49 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 12:05:49 +0100
Subject: Where to publish my code
References: <1f0bdf30.0309212039.16c9bef0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87r829t75e.fsf@pobox.com>

prochak at netzero.net (Erik Lechak) writes:
[...]
> 1) Vaults of Parnassus - have not tried it yet. The registration
> process makes it looks like they don't provide the space for the
> application.  I could be wrong?

I've never heard that they provide web space.


> 2) Sourceforge - A little too bloated for my needs.  But they do
> provide the space to put my code.  I used them before and it was kind
> of a pain to do updates.
[...]

Just ignore their file release system (which is apparently going away
soon anyway).  That's what I do -- treat it as free web space.  All
you need is scp and ssh.  You can shut down their bug tracking system
too, so people don't start posting stuff there.  SF doesn't provide
download stats, since it's expensive for them to provide (apparently).

4) GNU has an SF clone called Savannah.


John



From colarte at telesat.com.co  Fri Sep 26 08:53:35 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:53:35 -0500
Subject: Q: How to Change Pmw.ComboBox width ??
In-Reply-To: <1064568803.24328.1.camel@m-franklin>
References: <20030926041434.4943182a.colarte@telesat.com.co>
	<1064568803.24328.1.camel@m-franklin>
Message-ID: <20030926075335.3d2d3c15.colarte@telesat.com.co>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:33:24 +0100
Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> wrote:

> entry_width = 3

Thats Exactly what I needed , thank you very much.

Camilo Olarte




From mark at hahnca.com  Tue Sep 30 00:38:39 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:38:39 -0700
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list@python.org> <EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305@fed1read04> <ToKdb.9$t44.805@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <jN7eb.4479$hp5.4259@fed1read04>

They not only feel no need to document, they also feel no need to follow ANN
threads they start.

"Peter Milliken" <peterm at resmed.com.au> wrote in message
news:ToKdb.9$t44.805 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> I get the same error.
>
> I tried to find documentation to see whether I was using Pylint correctly
or
> not but there isn't any. There seems to have been an attempt at providing
> the possible command line options (python pylint.py --help) but I don't
find
> them particularly self-explanatory - so without documentation and the
> apparent ability to "run out of the box", I guess I'll just have to give
> this one a miss.
>
> One nice thing that has happened is it has led me to the Optik package
> (Option parsing). There is some nice documentation for this package - the
> author(s) of Pylint could take some direction from this package if they
> really want people to use Pylint (I have a personal hangup with people who
> write good, useful packages and then don't bother documenting them - life
is
> just too short to read somebody else'e code to get around this deficiency
> :-) I get frustrated however when I think there is something that I could
be
> taking advantage of but something as simple as the lack of 0.5hr of
> documentation stops me :-( ).
>
> In the meantime, I'll just have to watch this space :-)
>
> Peter
>
>
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> wrote in message
> news:EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305 at fed1read04...
> >
> > > Pylint is a lint-like tool for Python code
> >
> > Does pylint only work for modules?  When I tried to run it on my code
file
> > (ezpicmailer.py) , it raised an exception:
> >
> > No config file found, using default configuration
> > <snip>
> > Exception: Unable to find module for C:\photoedit\ezpicmailer in
> > <snip>
> >
> > and then it gave a long list of modules in my sys.path.  It seems to
> insist
> > that the argument I give it be a module in sys.path, not just an
arbitrary
> > python code file.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------
> >
> > "Alexandre Fayolle" <Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list at python.org...
> > Logilab has released pylint-0.2
> >
> > What's new?
> > -----------
> >
> > In addition to a large number of bug fixes, this release adds two new
> > checkers, for missing encoding declaration, and for FIXME comments. Zope
> > support was improved.
> >
> > About Pylint
> > ------------
> >
> > Pylint is a lint-like tool for Python code. It performs almost all the
> > verifications that pychecker does, and additionally can perform some
> > stylistic verification and coding standard enforcements. The checked
> > code is assigned a mark based on the number and the severity of the
> > encountered problems. The previous mark of a given piece of code is
> > cached so that you can see if the code quality has improved since the
> > last check.
> >
> > URLs
> > ----
> >
> > Homepage: http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint
> > Download: ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/pylint/pylint-0.2.tar.gz
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandre Fayolle
> > LOGILAB, Paris (France).
> > http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
> > D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations
> >
> >
>
>





From wtrenker at shaw.ca  Fri Sep 19 10:09:52 2003
From: wtrenker at shaw.ca (William Trenker)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:09:52 +0000
Subject: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
In-Reply-To: <lOqdnaG8ttWUxvaiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>
References: <dnfmmv0n8evvu238thm96t3k2iff7dm33d@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1063997966.12324.python-list@python.org>
 <lOqdnaG8ttWUxvaiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030919140952.4a6583b5.wtrenker@shaw.ca>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:37:44 -0400
Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote regarding Re: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT:

> I nominate whoever sent me over a thousand fake MS Update + attachment
> spams in the last 24 hours.

I nominate for hero:  Spambayes!

I have never received so many virus-related spam messages as this latest 'Swen' virus.  Even the recent 'Klez' virus didn't come close on volume of spam messages received.

This latest one has been such a pain that yesterday I decided to try out Spambayes.  I have Python 2.3 on Linux here, using Sylpheed for email.  I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to setup Spambayes and its pop3proxy.py application.  I waited (not long) for a few of the virus messages to come my way, trained Spambayes on just those few messages, and haven't been bothered since.

I would also nominate Spambayes as Python App of the Year!  Spambayes certainly is a showcase of the sophistication, and practicality, that can be achieved using Python 'out of the box'.

Bill




From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sat Sep 20 06:56:12 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:56:12 +0200
Subject: urls on securing python on a shared hosting ?
Message-ID: <3f6c2f8a$0$20641$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi everyone !

Could someone point me to infos about securing python for use as CGI or 
mod_python for a shared hosting environnement ?

I searched google, but did not find anything specific :(

I'm not an admin myself, but I try to convince my hosting admins to 
install Python. For now, their answser is that they don't know how to 
secure this, and have not time to learn how to do it. (NB : this is a 
'cooperative' hosting service, not a commercial one...)

TIA
Bruno

-- 
http://bdesth.free.fr
http://www.laotseu.net
-- 





From Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com  Thu Sep  4 04:28:31 2003
From: Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com (Harri Pesonen)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 01:28:31 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python in multi-threaded app
Message-ID: <17fbc98a.0309040028.6776d426@posting.google.com>

Hello. Thanks to the message below
(http://groups.google.fi/groups?selm=dkuhlmanF1KAr0.5J9%40netcom.com),
I was able to do the same, almost. I have currently only one problem.
When I call Py_Finalize() when the dll terminates, it crashes. I have
Python 2.3. Everything else works, I have run many different scripts
in threads. I wonder if someone has noticed anything similar, and
perhaps found a solution.
 
Also I don't understand PyThreadState_Swap(interp) call below, but it
does not work properly without it, the thread termination hangs
without it. The documentation says that Py_NewInterpreter() already
makes the new state current.
 
Thanks for any help!

Harri

--- Original message below ----
 
Thanks for comments from Guido. I have a very preliminary version 
working with Python embedded in a multi-threaded C++ application.

I'd like to summarize what I'm doing so that others will have an
example to follow or so that someone can correct me if I'm still
doing something wrong.

My application creates multiple threads, one for each end-user
session. I create a separate Python sub-interpreter for each thread
(session), then evaluate scripts in that session with the
sub-interpreter for that session.  I do this so that within a
session, scripts are evaluated under a context/environment local to
that session and so that the scripts in a session do not share
(borrow or steal) global values, imported functions, etc from other
sessions. Thus, my users (who are developing Python scripts) can
write scripts from the viewpoint that the scripts for each session
will run in their own little world under their own separate
environment. I view this as a very important benefit that embedded
Python gives me.

Here is a summary of my latest code:

  // At the very beginning of the application.
  Py_Initialize();
  PyEval_InitThreads();
  PyEval_ReleaseLock();
    o
    o
    o
  // Here we are in the constructor for a session.
  PyEval_AcquireLock();
  interp = Py_NewInterpreter();
  // Note that this application has multiple threads.
  // It maintains a separate interp (sub-interpreter) for each thread.
  PyThreadState_Swap(interp);
  // Call some Python C/API functions here
  PyEval_ReleaseThread(interp);
    o
    o
    o
  // Get sub-interpreter for current thread.
  interp = ...
  PyEval_AcquireThread(interp);
  // Call more Python C/API functions here, e.g. PyRun_SimpleString
  PyEval_ReleaseThread(interp);
    o
    o
    o
  // Get sub-interpreter for current thread.
  interp = ...
  PyEval_AcquireThread(interp);
  // Call more Python C/API functions here
  PyEval_ReleaseThread(interp);
    o
    o
    o
  // Here we are in the destructor for a session.
  // Get sub-interpreter for current thread.
  interp = ...
  PyEval_AcquireThread(interp);
  Py_EndInterpreter(interp);
  PyEval_ReleaseLock();
    o
    o
    o
  // At the very end of the application.
  PyEval_AcquireLock();
  Py_Finalize();


Thanks again for help.  And I hope that this can serve as a simple
model for others trying to embed Python in a multi-threaded
application.

  -- Dave



Guido van Rossum <guido at CNRI.Reston.VA.US> wrote:

> Yes, but this is still dangerous.  You should really use the APIs that 
> manage the lock *and* the thread state: use
> PyEval_AcquireThread() and PyEval_ReleaseThread().  (The argument to
> the latter should be the current thread state, gotten from
> PyThreadState_Get().) 
> In case you're inclined to continue this while I'm unavailable, read
> the source -- e.g. the routines I mentioned here are in
> Python/ceval.c. 
> --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 17:31:56 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:31:56 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <bjg6up$iojq4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <003401c37587$7cd9a920$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Dave Kuhman said
>Actually, from its appearance, the new design looks like it is
>trying to sell me something.  "Advert filters up!" It makes me
>suspicious, skeptical, and cynical, as all advertising does.
But theres the dichotomy

>When I send or refer someone to a site like that,
>I'd feel I'd have to warn them: "It looks like promotional
>material, but don't be put off; there is really good content there
>if you look for it.
They would't have to look for it. There is the same content on the page
I designed as on the current page. A slimmed down navigation yes but
that was one of the remits, it is better to have a smaller number
of links that the user can quickly find what they want than a large
number where they get lost. 

Tim

Ps please can we move this off the comp.lang.python list.






From msajec at ieee.org  Mon Sep 22 20:12:27 2003
From: msajec at ieee.org (Mike S.)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 17:12:27 -0700
Subject: Compiling informxidb-1.3 on python2.2?
Message-ID: <bc2ee265.0309221612.37ed0840@posting.google.com>

Hello,

Has anyone had success compiling the informixdb-1.3 module under
python 2.2?  It seems the absense of makefile.pre.in in python 2.2
causes the break under py2.2. Is there an easy way around this.  I've
heard rumors of a manual method, but have been unable to track down
details.  Any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Mike



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 16:13:06 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:13:06 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <mailman.1062788891.30224.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjaqpk$mnh$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"Juha Autero" <Juha.Autero at iki.fi>
>
> G?del, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid. It may not be the best
> book I read and not very useful, but I'd recomend reading it anyway.
>

I made the same recommendation some minutes ago, but without your
reservation. In fact I might even come to the conclusion it *is* the best
book I have read ;-)

Why do you think it is not very useful? What do you think of Shakespeare by
the way?

Kindly
Michael P





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 14:08:23 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:08:23 +0100
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
References: <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com> <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu> <mailman.1064330017.10730.python-list@python.org> <u941nvg94ae04ajndvbjs2hlqc9l5lemqh@4ax.com> <8ef9bea6.0309270025.3c4d79ed@posting.google.com> <drufnv8irkhpumggjc749q9b0q2m9g2gj4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <asrgnv0r2ujla01elae8gqd9hhishkrtj3@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:33:27 +0100, Tim Rowe
<tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk> wrote:

>Internal constructs don't bother me -- ultimately it all comes down to
>machine code which will be a mass of goto's.  That doesn't mean that
>my code should be (could be!) a mass of goto's.
>
>And the last time I needed a goto for anything I was programming in
>BASIC; I don't need to use exceptions to emulate it in a language with
>decent flow control constructs (Python qualifies, of course!).

Ah - a good old goto debate ;-)

I have long claimed that goto is useful in rare circumstances, that it
can be clearer and more maintainable than structured code in those
rare cases, and that while anything can be abused it is still
perfectly possible for a good programmer to use it responsibly and to
refactor when the code becomes too messy. Structured, OO, and indeed
any style of programming can become unreadable and unmaintainable
(hence the fuss about refactoring).

That said, it was quite a shock when I actually found a case where I
needed a goto about six months ago. Quite literally I made several
attempts at writing a function in a structured way and got it wrong
each time. Each time I came back to it the previous version seemed a
horrible mess so I rewrote it. Eventually I figured this was stupid,
especially as it didn't seem so hard in my head. I put that mental
picture onto paper - and as I did so I realised it simply wasn't a
structured job. It was very much a state transition model. But because
it completes all its work in one go, and doesn't need to maintain the
state between calls, it simply hadn't occurred to me to think of it
that way.

I remember telling a college lecturer that if state transition models
are appropriate for some things then so must gotos be appropriate, and
that in a 'short running' state machine a goto would be the logical
way to implement the transitions. At the time, I didn't think it would
be so long before I found an example ;-)

Anyway, this example was in some fairly low level library code I was
writing in C++. I don't see any need for goto in Python, trust that it
will never be added, and don't like to see exceptions abused that way.

Just sharing a rather pointless anecdote.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Wed Sep  3 18:14:23 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:14:23 GMT
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f566751.342339448@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On 3 Sep 2003 04:39:02 -0700, post400 at prontomail.com (post400)
wrote:
> there is another famous book 'Writing solid code' but does it apply to
> Python ? Or it's usable only by Microsoft C programmers ? The author
> seems to be an ex-Microsoft guy !

Forget this one, it wasn't as good as Code Complete when it came
out and it has aged less well. Its not even of great value to C
programmers nowadays, it spends a lot of time dealing with the
inadequacies of the compilers and other tools around at the time!

Better tools mean much of it has lost its urgency.

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep  6 12:28:58 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 16:28:58 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com> <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli9pochlcoc8e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bjd20a$sf6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:15:00 -0400, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
>news:3f591d28$0$175$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
>> In article <vli387c9mm140a at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
>>
>> >> So that there's no difference between a function and a method.
>> >>
>> >> Simplicity and orthogonality are good things -- despite what
>> >> C++ proponents thing.
>> >>
>> >> > Hence my comment that requiring it is more complex than not
>> >> > requiring it.
>> >>
>> >> No, it's more complex the Java/Ruby way, since you have to have
>> >> two sets of rules for what a name means depending on whether
>> >> you're inside a "normal" function or a method.  In Python
>> >> there's just one set of rules -- mostly.
>> >
>> > As I said earlier, it's quite possible to define it so that there
>> > is always an instance of some kind; whether that's an instance
>> > a class or the module itself.
>>
>> I don't follow.  You're talking about defining a keyword that
>> always refers to the first parameter passed to a function?  And
>> the declared parameters would refer to the 2nd through Nth
>> parameters?  What if the keyword isn't used in the function
>> definition, then do the delcared parameters refer to the 1st
>> through Nth?
>
>When Python invokes a function, it binds the operands in the
>function call to the identifiers named in the function / method
>header. If this is a method, it binds the instance (which is not
>in the invocation parameter list, btw.) to the first
>parameter in the method header.
>
>If you make "self" a reserved word, then all it has to do
>is bind the instance to "self," rather than the first identifier
>in the parameter list.
>
>In current python, there are two classes of functions (module
>level and embedded) and three classes of methods (instance,
>class and static.) Instance methods get the current instance,
>class methods get the class object as the instance, and the other
>three categories get nothing.
>
>As a separate suggestion, I'd have Python bind the module
>object to "self" for module functions and static methods. I
>haven't figured out what I want done with embedded methods
>and unbound methods yet. Notice that this eliminates the
>need for the global statement for module functions - all
>identifiers are accessible for rebinding through "self."
>
>> > I think my comments have shown that you can reduce the amount
>> > of scoping / name space rules noticably.
>>
>> Compared to what?  It sure sounds like you're introducing more
>> rules than there are now.  How would you propose reducing the
>> number of rules?
>
>If you don't have to write "self" as the first parameter of a method,
>that reduces the complexity. Everything else remains the same.

Will this still be possible?

 >>> def foo(*args): print args
 ...
 >>> class A(object): pass
 ...
 >>> class B(A): pass
 ...
 >>> a = A()
 >>> b = B()
 >>> A.bar = foo
 >>> b.bar('howdy')
 (<__main__.B object at 0x00906E70>, 'howdy')
 >>> a.bar('howdy')
 (<__main__.A object at 0x00907170>, 'howdy')
 >>> foo('howdy')
 ('howdy',)

 >>> A.bar('hello')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: unbound method foo() must be called with A instance as first argument (got str instan
 ce instead)
 >>> A.__dict__['bar']('hello')
 ('hello',)

I.e., the method-vs-function distinction is a matter of how you access the function dynamically,
not how you define it. There is no static distinction in functionality, AFAIK (though I guess
there could possibly be some speculative optimizations).

(The above doesn't even get into the multiple name issues I alluded to).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Sep 24 00:49:04 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:49:04 GMT
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <4n9cb.1447$RW4.791@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Andrew Chalk:
> Assume that I have a static HTML page that I want
> displayed (e.g. index.htm). Other than 'print ...' is there any way to
> redirect to this URL (for example, like Response.Redirect() in ASP)?

The Response.Redirect likely works by putting something in
the header.  The HTML page you have doesn't have access to
the header.  However, you can use the meta tag to tell the
browser to look elsewhere.  But that won't work for tools which
don't parse the HTML.

It's an easy web search (once you know the right keywords :) -
"header redirect meta" and I found
http://vancouver-webpages.com/META/FAQ.html#redirect
 "How can I redirect the user to another page ?"
with three different answers

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com






From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Tue Sep  9 03:09:26 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:09:26 +0200
Subject: script won't run
Message-ID: <040a01c376a1$4dd17250$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

Hi all,

I'm encountering problems when trying to execute my python script outside
PythonWin's IDE.
Running it from PythonWins goes smooth, while clicking the .py icon or
hitting the script's
name directly from the command line abruptly ends with error messages.

specifically the error is socket.error: (10061, 'Connection refused').
running Ethereal
in the background shows no activity.

any suggestions for the cause of the difference between the two methods of
executing ?

thx,
~B






From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep  9 08:48:35 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:48:35 +0200
Subject: set built-in func_code?
In-Reply-To: <bjkg28$pi3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bjk4v2$6iv$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5D9A9E.1000305@ghaering.de>
	<mailman.1063099392.17355.python-list@python.org>
	<bjkg28$pi3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F5DCC23.4050004@ghaering.de>

Birgit Rahm wrote:
> Hallo,
> I have a program (not written by me :-( ) that loads socalled helpfunctions
> and executes that dynamically.
> One error message was : ... cant get the func_code of the helpfunctionX.

That sounds strange. But the reason is most probably that helpfunctionX 
is in fact not a function.

> Which reason this message has, I dont now.
> My main problem is, that I dont know what func_code is : a built-in function
> or attribute or what ? And why is it used.

I don't know why it's used either, because I don't know the program you 
use :) I think you're relatively new to Python (only saw you posting 
here recently) :-) So what we're touching here is advanced stuff, but 
I'll try to explain it as good as I can:

*Everything* in Python is an object, including functions. Here's an 
excerpt from an interactive session:

 >>> def times2(x): return 2*x
...
 >>> times2
<function times2 at 0x007E68F0>
 >>> type(times2)
<type 'function'>
 >>>

So, times2 is a function object. Being an object, it also has attributes:

 >>> dir(times2)
['__call__', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', 
'__get__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', 
'__name__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', 
'__setattr__', '__str__', 'func_closure',  'func_code', 'func_defaults', 
'func_dict', 'func_doc', 'func_globals', 'func_name']

Now it's relatively clear what func_name might be:

 >>> times2.func_name
'times2'

But there's also more advanced stuff like the func_code attribute. 
func_code is a code object (yes, *again* an object), that contains the 
Python bytecode for the function in question. If you really wanted to, 
you could replace the code object of the function with a new code 
object, that does something totally different. This is probably one of 
the deepest hacks you can do in Python :-D

So if, for example, I wanted times2 to return "x*3" instead of "x*2", I 
could use something like:

def changeMeaningOfTimes2():
     def __tmpfunc(x):
         return x*3

     times2.func_code = __tmpfunc.func_code

As I already said, this is a very ugly hack, that is seldom, if ever 
justified.

If you're just trying to make a call to times2() invoke something 
different, you could just do:

def __tmpfunc(x): return 3*x
times2 = __tmpfunc()

because all this does is bind the name 'times2' to a different function 
object.

I hope this gives you an insight in the possibilites of what you *can* 
do with Python. And that not everything you *can* do is necessarily a 
good idea ;-)

That being said, what you described sounds to me like the real problem 
is that a name helpfunctionX is assigned to something other than a 
function and that your program tries to get the func_code attribute from 
this object, which fails, because it's not a function but something else.

ciao,

-- Gerhard




From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 03:37:13 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:37:13 +0200
Subject: just a beep
References: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <mailman.1062489605.3888.python-list@python.org> <bj3ug3$23m5$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <bj9eg9$60l$00$1@news.t-online.com>

"Leo" <leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bj3ug3$23m5$1 at otis.netspace.net.au...
> thanks a lot! that's what i want: an platform independend beep!
>
> and indeed i want to read more about functions vs methods! but my quick
> browse through the docu did not show me that there is sth in beetween
> Tkinter and bell...

Of course it did not! Have you ever used mainloop() or after(..) ?
Kindly
Michael P





From dakidd at sonic.net  Mon Sep 15 13:58:42 2003
From: dakidd at sonic.net (Don Bruder)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:58:42 GMT
Subject: Advice from Jeff (Was Re: Is there "let binding" in Python?)
References: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list@python.org> <o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856@typhoon.sonic.net> <YJGdnbh7jKtyS_iiU-KYvA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <m5n9b.21778$dk4.677027@typhoon.sonic.net>

In article <YJGdnbh7jKtyS_iiU-KYvA at comcast.com>,
 "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> "Don Bruder" <dakidd at sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856 at typhoon.sonic.net...
> > In article <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list at python.org>,
> >  Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> > > Not an answer, but advice: when writing programs in Python,
> >> write Python programs.
> >
> > Gawd, but that's profound! And on several levels... No... I'm
> serious.
> > But I'm also smiling.
> 
> Jeff's advice is perhaps too terse for someone not already familiar
> with it.  Does the following seem more helpful?
> 
> If you are writing a Python program to either learn Python or
> accomplish a computing task, you will probably be happier and more
> successful (in the middle to long run) if you write idiomatic Python
> rather than 'literal translations' in the style of some other langauge
> and *its* idioms.
> 
> The OP is not the first to more or less ask 'how do I literally
> translate this foreign idiom' (which the poster may not even see as a
> language-specific idiom) rather than 'how do I accomplish the same
> function'.  This questions usually garner the advice given above.

Like I said, that's *VERY* profound advice. It wasn't a question of me 
"not understanding", it was an observation of fact. Even if it does make 
me grin when I read it.
  
> > >  If it's your task to translate some Scheme (or any other
> > > language) into Python as literally as possible, my heart goes out
> to you.
> 
> > How miserable do you expect me to be translating from
> > Python to C/C++ as literally as possible?
> 
> In respect to the basic data/object model, Python is more similar to
> Lisp than C++.  In respect to syntax, the opposite is true.

I have (mercifully) forgotten almost all of the tiny bit of lisp I ever 
knew. Never before or since have I seen such a butt-ugly, unfreindly, 
difficult to deal with language. On second thought, I take that back... 
Brainf*ck may be the only contender.

> By default, Python code is generic -- it runs with any object with the
> needed interface.  So, unless a block is explicitly specialized to one
> type with a preceeding assert or conditional, the literally 'as
> literal as possible' translation to C++ is to template code.  Are you
> doing this, or specializing  the C++ code by declaring variables and
> function parameters to a particular type?

Definitely declaring variables. I'm nowhere near far enough along to 
mess with templates yet. They just confuse me.

-- 
Don Bruder -  dakidd at sonic.net <--- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See <http://www.spamassassin.org> for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html>



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 15:50:16 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:50:16 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
References: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com> <bj5b4g$jtg$1@news.hananet.net> <eoselvguf3hvie3s95kjndhtuno0jiu09s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bjapeq$28o$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou" <tzot at sil-tec.gr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:eoselvguf3hvie3s95kjndhtuno0jiu09s at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:15:16 +0900, rumours say that "Changjune Kim"
> <juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net> might have written:
>
> >(I'm interested to see his "extremely fast" text widget, too)
>
> Notice that Michael Peuser described an "extremely fast" "binary
> editor"; I assume a dual view (hex / chars) one.  This is not a text
> widget --you don't have to account for line feeds and variable width
> characters :)

Well I have somthing a little bit over 100 lines; I removed the editor part
but that is straight forward.
No scaling to size up to 1 GB.
-----------------------------------
# wckhwex by Michael Peuser May-2003
# Using some ideas from F. Lundh (WCK)
# This is Open Source. I will be happy if it could help somebody.

versionString="wckhex 0.3 by mpeuser.de"
from __future__ import division

from Tkinter import *
from WCK import Widget, EventMixin
from tkFileDialog import askopenfile
import mmap

class HexView(EventMixin, Widget):
    """Displays HUGE binary file using memory mapped files
    """

    aCols=10     # address field
    bCols=2.5*16+1 # binary  field
    cCols=16+1   # ascii field

    ui_takefocus=1
    ui_doublebuffer=0

    def __init__(self,root, buffer=None):
        self.buffer=buffer
        self.defLines=(len(buffer)+15)//16
        self.firstLine=0            # numer of first line in window
        self.oldFirst=-1            # .. compared to last time
        self.visLines=1             # visible lines in window
        self.pix=None               # pixmap will be created on resize

        self.ui_init(root)
        self.vscroll=Scrolls(self,orient=VERTICAL)
        self.vscroll.pack(side=RIGHT,fill=Y)

        self.pack(side=TOP,fill=BOTH,expand=1)
        self.font=self.ui_font(0,"Courier 10")
        (self.cWidth, self.lHeight) = self.font.measure("X")

    def ui_handle_resize(self, width, height):

        self.height=height
        self.width= max(width,
                    (self.aCols+1+self.bCols+1+self.cCols)*self.cWidth) #
pixel
        self.visLines=self.height//self.lHeight
        self.pix=self.ui_pixmap(self.width, self.height)
        self.vscroll.doScroll() # compute new thumb
        self.drawPix()

    def ui_handle_clear(*whatever):
        pass                    # no need for clear as is pixmap long enough

    def ui_handle_repair(self, draw, x0, y0, x1, y1):
        #if self.pix:
            draw.paste(self.pix)

    def onclick(self, ev):
        self.focus_set()
        if ev.num==1:
            pass        #XXX implement editor here
        if ev.num==3:
            pop=Menu(self,tearoff=0);
            pop.add_command(label=versionString,state=DISABLED)
            pop.post(ev.x+self.winfo_rootx(),ev.y+self.winfo_rooty())

    def onkey(self, event):
        todo ={'Down': ("scroll",1,"lines"),  'Up':   ('scroll',-1,'lines'),
               'Next': ("scroll",1,"pages"),  'Prior':('scroll',-1,'pages')}
        x=todo.get(event.keysym)
        print x
        if x: self.vscroll.doScroll(*x)

    def bgText(self,x,y,w,h,text,theBrush):
        "Displays centered text with background color"
        self.pix.rectangle((x+1,y+1,x+w-2,y+h-2),theBrush)
        (tw,th)=self.pix.textsize(text,self.font)
        self.pix.text((x+(w-tw)/2,y+(h-th)/2),text,self.font)

    def drawPix(self,unchangedSize=0):
        "Central dawing routine"
        c=self.pix
        repair=None
        whiteBrush=self.ui_brush(0xffffff)
        yellowBrush=self.ui_brush(0xffff99)
        grayPen=self.ui_pen(0x999999,2)
        ww,wh = self.ui_size()
        h=self.lHeight
        posX = 0

# speed up scrolling by image blitting, but unclean parametrisation of paste
        if unchangedSize:                         ## check if blitting
useful
            linesTBS = self.oldFirst-self.firstLine  ## TBS = to be scrolled
            if 0 < linesTBS < self.visLines/2:    ## down, repair top
                c.paste(c,(0, h*linesTBS))
                theRange=range(1,linesTBS+1)
                c.rectangle((0,h,ww,(linesTBS+1)*h),whiteBrush)
                c.rectangle((0,h,self.aCols*self.cWidth,(linesTBS+1)*h),
yellowBrush)
            elif 0 < -linesTBS < self.visLines/2: ## up, repair bottom
                c.paste(c,(0, h*linesTBS))
                delta=self.visLines+linesTBS
                theRange=range(delta-1,self.visLines)
                c.rectangle((0, delta*h, ww, wh),whiteBrush)
                c.rectangle((0,delta*h, self.aCols*self.cWidth, wh),
yellowBrush)
            else:
                unchangedSize=0 # blitting would not make much
improvement...
        self.oldFirst=self.firstLine              # remember first line for
next time
# end of blitting optimization

        if not unchangedSize:                         # all new
            c.rectangle((0,0,ww,wh),whiteBrush)
            theRange=range(1, self.visLines)
            c.rectangle((0,h,self.aCols*self.cWidth,wh), yellowBrush)

        for w, text in \

((self.aCols,"address"),(self.bCols,"hex"),(self.cCols,"ascii")):
            w *= self.cWidth
            if repair!='T':
                self.bgText(posX, 0, w, h, text, yellowBrush)
            c.line((posX - 1, 0, posX - 1, wh -1), grayPen)
            posX+=w

        # addresses and data
        posY = self.lHeight
        for y in theRange:
            posX = 0
            heightY = self.lHeight
            address=(y-1+self.firstLine)*16
            vals = self.buffer[address:address+16]
            c.text((posX,y*self.lHeight),
                   "%3x.%05x " % divmod(address, 1024*1024), self.font)
            posX += self.aCols*self.cWidth

            for vala in range(address,address+16):
                if vala %8==0: posX+=self.cWidth//2   # some in between
space
                if vala<len(buffer):
                    c.text((posX,
y*heightY),"%02x"%ord(buffer[vala]),self.font)
                posX += 2.5*self.cWidth

            c.text((posX+10,y*heightY),buffer[address:address+16],self.font)
        self.ui_damage()
        self.focus_set()

class Scrolls(Scrollbar):
    "wrapper around Tk scrolbars"
    def __init__(self,frame,orient=None,**kw):
        Scrollbar.__init__(self,frame,orient=orient,command=self.doScroll)
        self.visible=1 # start packed
        self.theMaster=frame

    def doScroll(self,a=None,b=None,c=None):
        m=self.theMaster
        oldfirst=m.firstLine
        if a=="scroll":
            if c=='pages': b=int(b)*m.visLines-1
            m.firstLine = oldfirst+int(b)
        elif a=="moveto":
            m.firstLine=int(float(b)*(m.defLines+1))
        if m.firstLine+m.visLines>m.defLines: # the end
            m.firstLine=m.defLines-m.visLines+1
        if m.firstLine<0:
            m.firstLine=0
        size = m.visLines/m.defLines  # 0...1
        start= m.firstLine/m.defLines # 0...1
        if self.visible: self.set(start,start+size)
        if oldfirst != m.firstLine: m.drawPix(unchangedSize=1)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    root=Tk()
    root.iconify()
    fbb=askopenfile("r+");      assert fbb, "No file"
    buffer=mmap.mmap(fbb.fileno(),0)

    s=HexView(root, buffer=buffer)

    root.title("%s (%6.3f MB)" %(fbb.name, len(buffer)/1024/1024))
    root.geometry("720x550+10+10")
    root.deiconify()
    root.mainloop()
    fbb.close()
# the End







From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Sep 12 14:08:26 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:08:26 -0400
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
 <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
 <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it>
 <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com>
 <L%06b.18004$hE5.637245@news1.tin.it>
 <51809ae4.0309110734.1e5d28be@posting.google.com> <87y8wvfd6d.fsf@pobox.com>
 <RXLY/kKkXU4e092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1063303282.4058.python-list@python.org>
 <bjt1eq$dui$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <augY/kKkXg0N092yn@gnosis.cx>         

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote previously:
|[OT] So instead of a distributed implementation of business, with no
|individual way of making billion dollar mistakes, the consolidation
|centralizes control and makes billion dollar mistakes both possible
|and survivable, and therefore more probable.

I don't have an airtight explanation for why it "has to be so", but
empirically[*], media consolidation almost always leads to a narrowing of
ideological diversity.  Fewer and fewer different opinions get
expressed, and everything gets mushed together into an "offend no one"
middle.

The trend is perhaps more obvious with political news, movies, music,
etc., but I fear for the same thing in computer books.  Rather than
publish occassional books on oddball technologies by authors with their
own take on programming matters, the danger is that every book becomes
"VB.NET for Dummies", or something like that.

It may seem like a silly fear.  But back when I was shopping my book (a
couple years back now), one of the publishers I approached was New
Riders.  They had published Beazley's excellent _Python Essential
Reference_, as well as quite a number of good programmer-oriented
titles.  But the stated "new" focus of New Riders was "graphics design
applications" (I think one of the first steps in mergers was
PeachPit+New Riders).  While there is certainly nothing wrong with that
type of book, it really seems to throw away the hard-earned reputation
of New Riders for a certain kind of high-quality programming text--in
favor of something which seems a lot more "middle of the road."

AW still seems to do a lot of good books (not just mine), and maintains
that nice computer-science-ish focus.  But I wonder whether a
cookie-cutter pressure will force their titles into narrower molds, over
time.

[*] Maybe Alex will pipe in with a "rational actor" explation of why
what I claim either must be, or cannot be, true. :-)

|[really OT]
|Factoids: Iraq 2002 per capita GDP: ~$2,400. Iraq population: ~24.7 million.
|$87bn if distributed to all Iraquis: ~$3,500. per capita.

Brilliant observations, Bengt!

Yours, Lulu...

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From BoteDesSchattens at web.de  Thu Sep 11 01:23:37 2003
From: BoteDesSchattens at web.de (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 05:23:37 GMT
Subject: FIFO problems
Message-ID: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

I want to write a "client-server-application" (only running on the same 
machine) or actually I've already begun with and have problems with the 
interprocess communication. The server, when started, opens a FIFO and 
opens it with open(infifo, 'r'). Then I check the content of the file 
with

while 1:
    	line = serverIn.readline()[:-1]
    	if line == "bla":
    	    	do this
    	else:
    	    	print line

So at the beginning everything works fine. I can start the client prog 
and they will talk and understand to each other. The same if I connect 
with three or more clients simultaneously (?). If one of these clients 
exists, no problem. But when the last process exists and closes the 
FIFO-file which was opened by os.open(infifo, os.O_WRONLY), the server 
begins to print an empty string everytime it goes through the loop, 
means it won't wait for a complete line to appear before continuing. 
Why?
Then I modified the thing above to:

while 1:
    	line = serverIn.readline()[:-1]
    	if line == "bla":
    	    	do this
    	elif line == "":
    	    	open(infifo, 'r')
    	    	print "help!!!"
    	else:
    	    	print line

So in contrast to what I thought, there was not a bunch of "help!!!" 
lines printed, but nothing. When I tried then to connect again, there 
was a single "help!!!" and then the correct message for the client 
having connected.

So, anyone any idea how I can fix this. I just want the server to 
continue line-by-line-reading...

Bye
Tobias



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Sep 23 00:52:41 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:52:41 +1200
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063300996.11325.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1063300996.11325.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkoh15$3ru85$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michael Chermside wrote:
> But my counter argument would be that this breaks one of the elegent
> simplicities of Python -- that callables of all kinds are equivalent
> and have a very simple interface. ... There's no place in this simple
> protocol for type declarations (of course), and there would be no
> place for tracking whether an argument was "ref" or not.

Apologies for reviving this thread, but I'd just like to
point out how this proposal ("ref" parameters, for anyone
who's forgotten) could be implemented without adding any
complication to the argument passing model. In fact, it
could be decoupled from argument passing almost completely.

Suppose there were an expression

    ref x

which would return what I will call a Namespace Reference
Object (NRO) which refers to the binding of the name 'x'
in the current scope. It would have some suitable protocol,
such as get() and set() methods, for accessing this binding.
Note that this would be a general expression, usable anywhere,
not just in a function call.

Thats' really all that is strictly needed, because we can
now write

    def Inc(xref):
       xref.set(xref.get() + 1)

and call it with

    Inc(ref a)

However, as a convenience, we might want to allow the 'ref'
keyword to be usable on the left hand side of an expression
as well, in a kind of "unpacking" sense, so that

    ref x = xref
    x = y

would be equivalent to

    xref.set(y)

(The semantics of this are perhaps a bit murky, but would
be something line "assign xref to x, and have the
compiler note that any other mention of x in this scope
is to use the NRO protocol implicitly".)

Now we can write

    def Inc(xref):
       ref x = xref
       x += 1

Further, analogous to the way tuples can be implicitly
unpacked in an argument list, we should similarly allow
arguments to be implicitly "unrefed" in an argument list:

    def Inc(ref x):
       x += 1

This is identical to the original proposal, but is implemented
using mechanisms which are completely orthogonal to argument
passing, and could be used in other contexts if desired.

Not that I'm necessarily advocating the proposal -- I tend
to agree that there's no pressing need for passing arguments
by reference in Python. I'm just setting down these ideas
for posterity.

Okay, you can let this thread die properly now. :-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Sep 12 08:21:17 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:21:17 -0500
Subject: Tkinter Canvas/Grid question
In-Reply-To: <bjrut1$hiq$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <vlvm553ie2is04@corp.supernews.com> <bjp90r$1ng$07$1@news.t-online.com> <vm1qhqmc9qiob5@corp.supernews.com> <bjrut1$hiq$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20030912122112.GA3268@unpythonic.net>

> "Gary Richardson" <garyr at fidalgo.net>
> > Michael, Jeff,
> >
> > Thanks for your replies. I made the changes indicated above and the
> resizing
> > works just fine now. I'm still puzzled as to why pack() would be used with
> > the frame and grid() used with the canvas, and other widgets.

You can manage any widget with any geometry manager.  (You can even grid
a button inside of a label, but god knows why you'd want to)

Sometimes you must use "grid" to get proper layout.  For instance, if
you want to create a scrolled item (canvas or text) with horizontal and
vertical scrollbars, this is the only sane way to do it.




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 02:10:50 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:10:50 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <63gvmvcf6iakbs8pgll7u8ogblkbqld6fp@4ax.com> <6EQbb.1770$PT3.279727@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <8vovmvgmb5c677ii8a43l8l0o1sjbosre2@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:14:57 -0400, "Sean Ross"
<sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

>"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in
>message
>> Personally, I think the conventional '..' has more chance than your
>> '...'.
>
>Hi.
>Actually, I think '...' is more conventional notation for expressing a range
>of numbers. Like when you want to show a sequence:
>
># odd numbers greater than 3, but less than 257
>5, 7, 9, 11, ..., 255, 257
>
>That sort of thing.

Good point, but I think the commas are essential to making that clear.
Without the commas, it simply doesn't look like the same thing.


>I've seen it in Ruby and Smalltalk (where integers have such methods), and
>it's not '...' , nor is it range(), so that might be an alternative. Whether
>it is a good alternative ... <shrug>. It doesn't add new syntax, only new
>methods to existing objects.

That is also an advantage to my slicing idea - it only requires a new
method (__getitem__ IIRC) be implemented for one object (the builtin
type object called 'int').


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Sep 11 09:10:29 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:10:29 -0400
Subject: Debug python programs
In-Reply-To: <bjpn2s$8bh$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>; from yorklee70@yahoo.com on Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 12:41:48PM +0100
References: <bjpn2s$8bh$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20030911091029.A32566@cerberus.liberty>

* York (yorklee70 at yahoo.com) wrote:
> Hi, anybody,
> 
> Would you please recommend some good softwares/methods for 
> tracking/debugging python codes.
> 
> Thanks,
> York

You've got lots of options.

1) Your standard insertion of "print" statements throughout the code.  A
lot of times, this is good enough to get the job done.  I typically set an
instance variable named DEBUG for each class that I create (in __init__,
set self.DEBUG = 0 or 1).  Then I have lots of
if self.DEBUG:
    print "whatever" #insert debug statements here
It's not the most elegant thing, but man, has it come in handy when you
don't need a full-blown debugger.  (Segue into number 2)

2) Python comes with a pretty good debugger built in.  Here are the docs:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-pdb.html

3) pychecker.  I know, I know, I know - it's not a debugger.  But if you
point it at your code, it'll inspect it and can help you uncover some
mistakes that can bite you in the rear.

4)  trace.py.  Never used it, but it's in the standard distribution now
under Tools/scripts.  (I'm including this line item since you mentioned
"tracking".  I guess this is what you mean?)

HTH


Jeremy Jones




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 23 21:55:25 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:55:25 -0400
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vn1ucos2250g24@news.supernews.com>

"mensanator" <mensanator at aol.com> wrote in message
news:fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf at posting.google.com...
> I just installed Python 2.3 (upgrading from 2.1).
>
> Version 2.3 is noticably faster and the automatic
> conversion to long integers is very handy:
>
> >>> print 2**64
> 18446744073709551616
>
>
> But if I want to know how many digits 2**64 has, I can't
> just do
>
> >>> print len(2**64)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: len() of unsized object
>
> So instead, I did this
>
> >>> print len(`2**64`)
> 21
>
> But the correct answer is 20, not 21. The reason the
> answer is wrong
>
> >>> print `2**64`
> 18446744073709551616L
>
> Why is the "L" there? I thought "L" isn't used anymore?

I believe it's scheduled to vanish in 2.4, but I could
be wrong about that.

John Roth





From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Sep  1 02:47:40 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:47:40 +0200
Subject: Declaration of an array of unspecified size
In-Reply-To: <n9q5lvscj9d6i083go88a9js7cc8g7c4ig@news.stofanet.dk>
References: <m814lvc8h44vbd5g1m2iv05r33qg8ag9ta@news.stofanet.dk> <biu6k0$c8fs4$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <n9q5lvscj9d6i083go88a9js7cc8g7c4ig@news.stofanet.dk>
Message-ID: <3f52ebb2$0$97173$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:

> Ulrich Petri skrev:

>>>class PopMailServer:
>>>  host = ""
>>>  user = ""
>>>  password = "*"
>>>  mails = 0
>>>  mail[] # This is wrong but what do I do?
>>
>>mail = [] #would work
> 
>>But you are creating class-variables here. Are you sure thats what you want?
> 
> Yes. I have the habit from Java and C++. Is there a better way to
> declare them in Python?


Class variables holds the same value for all instances of your object. 
If you want different instances to be able to have different values you 
should declare them as instance variables in the __init__ method.

class PopMailServer:

     def __init__(self):
         self.host = ""
         self.user = ""
         self.password = "*"
         self.mails = 0
         self.mail = []


regards Max M




From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Sep 18 10:10:16 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:10:16 -0400
Subject: "tuple index out of range" side effect of C extension??
In-Reply-To: <20030918221732.H25840@bullseye.apana.org.au>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEJBFPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Andrew MacIntyre]
> I'm seeing a bizarre situation where IndexErrors are being thrown with
> "tuple index out of range" error strings.
>
> The scenario is something like:
>
> l = [(v1a, v1b), (v2a, v2b), ..., (vna, vnb)]
>
> for a, b in l:
>     ...
>
>
>
> with the IndexError being thrown on the "for..." line after the last
> element of l has been through the for loop.
>
> I've also seen the same exception thrown on first access to an
> attribute of a simple class.
>
> The exception being thrown is not consistent,

It's probably the case then that C code is setting an exception in a
function F but neglecting to make F return its "there's an error" return
value.  The most common way this happens is for an extension module to call
a Python C API function and neglect to check *it* for an error return value.
In general, every Python C API function call must be checked for an error
return, and, when one occurs, the calling function must either return an
error code itself, or explicitly clear the error.

If an error return isn't made, ceval.c (the interpreter's main loop) doesn't
know an exception is pending, and not all bytecodes check for a pending
exception.  The exception doesn't get triggered then until the interpreter
happens to execute a bytecode that does check for a pending exception.  The
original C code that set the exception is long gone at that point, and the
reported exception doesn't appear to make sense.

> and reducing the number of tuples and lists in the code seems to
> reduce the likelihood of the exception being thrown.

You wish <wink>.

> The only thing unusual is the presence of a C extension

Bingo.

> which I am testing
> - an Ingres DB interface module, most of whose functionality seems to
> work when the IndexErrors don't get thrown.

It's probably doing something like PyList_GetItem with an out-of-bounds
index itself, then neglecting to check whether PyList_GetItem complained.

> Perusal of the source, while not exhaustive, hasn't turned up anything
> obvious; other than the embedded SQL stuff it seems to be in tune
> with the module layout in the Python docs.
>
> The complications are:-
> - I don't have MSVC, so can't build a standard Windows Python debug
>   setup to really look at the internals;

If you can do any sort of debug build of the interpreter, ceval in a debug
build inserts extra checks to try to catch "some routine set an exception
but didn't return an error value" mistakes sooner when they happen.  Look
for

#ifdef CHECKEXC

in ceval.c to find the extra checks made then.  You could #define CHECKEXC
alone to get that much.

> - I built the module with MinGW32 1.1 (gcc 2.95.3, it compiles with
>   only 1 warning which surprised me a bit) and Python can't yet be
>   built by MinGW (so that I could use gdb) AFAIK.

Beats me what happens then.  It *sounds* like a common mistake in extension
modules, though, so pursue that first.

> ...
> Replies cc'ed to the reply-to address in addition to the list
> appreciated.

Done.  Good luck!





From domma at procoders.net  Sun Sep 21 05:07:00 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:07:00 +0200
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
Message-ID: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I'm using Python 2.3s timeout sockets and have code like this to read a page
from web:

request = ...
self.page = urllib2.urlopen(request)

and later:

try:
    self.data = self.page.read()
except socket.error,e: ...
except socket.timeout: ...
except timeout: ...

but none of these excepts catches the the timeout while reading the data. I
still get the following exception, which I cannot handle:

...
  File "F:\CrawlingFramework\Rules\Tools\__init__.py", line 91, in __init__
    self.data = self.page.read()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\socket.py", line 283, in read
    data = self._sock.recv(recv_size)
timeout: timed out

Any hint on how to handle this exception or what's going wrong?

regards,
Achim





From jallan at smrtytrek.com  Tue Sep 23 21:17:00 2003
From: jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 18:17:00 -0700
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com> <bkpvml$m67$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <299f1138.0309231717.5d35ecaa@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<bkpvml$m67$06$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> jallan wrote:
> 
> > I don't see any particular reason why Python "cannot handle case
> > mappings that increase string lengths".
> 
> Now that's a long post. I think it essentially boils down to the above
> statement.
> 
> Looking into stringobject.c (judging from a first impression,
> unicodeobject.c has essentially the same algorithm, but with a few
> indirections):
> 
> static PyObject *
> string_upper(PyStringObject *self)
> {
>         char *s = PyString_AS_STRING(self), *s_new;
>         int i, n = PyString_GET_SIZE(self);
>         PyObject *new;
> 
>         new = PyString_FromStringAndSize(NULL, n);
>         if (new == NULL)
>                 return NULL;
>         s_new = PyString_AsString(new);
>         for (i = 0; i < n; i++) {
>                 int c = Py_CHARMASK(*s++);
>                 if (islower(c)) {
>                         *s_new = toupper(c);
>                 } else
>                         *s_new = c;
>                 s_new++;
>         }
>         return new;
> }
> 
> The whole routine builds on the assumption that len(s) == len(s.upper()) and
> nothing short of a complete rewrite will fix that. But if you volunteer...

I would love to if I had the time. Sigh!  Maybe in some months.

> Personally, I think it's a long way to go for a little s, sharp as it may be
> :-)

If it were just ? one could thrown in a quick conversion of any ? to
ss at the beginning.

But there are over a hundred other characters that expand when
uppercased in http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt,
most of them Greek. Greek is a horror. See
http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/unicode/unicode_adscript.html for the
sad tale.

Unfortunately language and orthography are messy and inconsistant and
illogical and sometimes just silly. But handling orthography properly
involves dealing with these complex rules and subrules and exceptions
to rules rather than ignoring them.

Unicode gives us great power, but with great power comes great
responsibility and lots of niggling code. :-(

Fortunately only the Latin, Greek, Coptic, Cyrillic and Armenian
scripts have such a thing as casing and the Unicode people have
provided data files and algorithms that supposedly handle casing for
these languages acceptably.

>From the Conformance requirements for Unicode at
http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/ch03.pdf#G29484 (C20):

<< An implementation that purports to support the default casing
operations of case conversion, case detection, and caseless mapping
shall do so in accordance with the definitions and specifications in
Section 3.13, Default Case Operations. >>

This involves even more messy fussing about with context specification
for casing and with what values should be returned from a case
querying function, e.g. "A2" is true as either uppercase and titlecase
but not as lowercase. "3" is true as lowercase, uppercase and title
case.

Python or any applicaton or language either does or doesn't conform.

I doubt that there is currently any application that can yet honestly
purport to support Unicode default casing operations of case
conversion, case detection and caseless mapping.

Jim Allan



From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Tue Sep 23 11:56:53 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:56:53 +0400
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
In-Reply-To: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <bkpqfu$1jr2$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Tina Li wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>[skipped]
> 

Personally I'd rather split it in several separate re's. Something like 
match_tag(tag_name) that matches tag group at the start of the string.

hth,
anton.




From twic at urchin.earth.li  Wed Sep 24 13:09:51 2003
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:09:51 +0100
Subject: Python embedded in C & memory releasing
In-Reply-To: <63701d2f.0309231819.31fdec85@posting.google.com>
References: <63701d2f.0309231819.31fdec85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309241748241.12934-100000@urchin.earth.li>

On 23 Sep 2003, lebo wrote:

> I'm trying to understand how Python handles memory usage and dynamic
> object loading and unloading.  Problem to solve? Build a very low
> memory footprint (non-GUI) Python application for Unix/Windows. Why
> use Python? End user flexibility.
>
> So far it seems that (on Windows):
> (1) memory increases when you import <module>. Expected behaviour.
> (2) memory does not release when you del <module>. Why not?  Is Python
> not releasing the memory or is it the OS not releasing memory?
>
> So then I tried embedded Python in C:
> (1) c application base 1.6MBytes (a good number)
> (2) Call Python function from c application - memory up to 2.6MByte
> (OK number)
> (3) Python function exits but memory usage stays at 2.6MByte
>
> Why is memory not releasing? How can I tell if this Python behaviour
> or OS behaviour?

this is how most runtime systems handle memory. they have a certain amount
of space allocated, and if they run out, they ask the OS for more, but
they never give it back. i think this is what most implementations of
malloc/free do; it's certainly what java does.

what you want is some way to tell python to give back some or all of its
spare memory. i'm not aware of such a thing myself.

tom

-- 
unconstrained by any considerations of humanity or decency




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep  8 08:51:17 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:51:17 GMT
Subject: exec code with timeout?
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062996311.6727.python-list@python.org> <Xns93EFE34728E26OKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062999372.21845.python-list@python.org> <qaY6b.29120$hE5.1041098@news1.tin.it> <87n0dfcx7v.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <9X_6b.44056$R32.1398393@news2.tin.it>

John J. Lee wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>> Graham Fawcett wrote:
> [...]
>> > Hmm... well, again I'd suggest the PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc function.
>> > It shouldn't be that hard to wrap... I'd try it myself, but haven't
>> > made it
>> > to 2.3 yet.  :(
>> 
>> Nope -- the attacking script can easily use try/except to defeat attempts
>> to kill it via PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc .  The latter isn't meant for
>> any "adversarial" situation, but just for potentially _buggy_ threads.
> [...]
> 
> Which is what the OP asked for, actually -- the users are trusted.

I think you're right -- I had not understood the OP's specs correctly.
In this case, the OP's application seems to be exactly THE typical
use case for the new functionality (which has been kept in C only to
avoid attracting _inappropriate_ use...).  See my lightning talk at
OSCON, slides at http://www.strakt.com/docs/os03_threads_interrupt.pdf ,
for a brief explanations of the how's & why and C source code to
wrap the new call if you KNOW it's exactly what you need.


Alex




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 12:49:46 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:49:46 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com> <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ebt0nvckrjv0or52pdmi8ghe147006ioi9@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:19:12 +0100, Tim Rowe
<tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:39:14 +0100, Stephen Horne
><$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:47:05 -0400, "John Roth"
>><newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
>>>do:
>>>    bibbity
>>>    bobbity
>>>    boo
>>>    while condition  # note the lack of a colon!
>>
>>Yuck!!!
>>
>>This is really no different to the following, which is quoted in the
>>PEP as something to move away from...
>>
>>  while True :
>>    ...
>>    if condition : break
>>    ...
>>
>>The fundamental problem is that the exit point is not obvious because
>>it is 'hidden' in the detail of the loop - it is a statement within
>>the loop body instead of being lexically a part of the loop.
>
>It is very different indeed.  In the second case stuff can go after
>the "if condition: break", so the terminating condition is potentially
>buried in the surrounding code.  On my reading of John's proposal
>nothing can go after the "while condition", so the end is clearly
>marked in the Python way by the indentation dropping back a level.

Maybe - but in my reading of Johns suggestion the 'while' was just a
statement like the existing 'break' or 'continue' (hence the lack of a
colon). So you could legally write...

>>>do:
>>>    blah; blah; blah; blah; blah; blah
>>>    blah; blah; blah; blah; blah; blah
>>>    blah; while condition;  blah; blah
>>>    blah; blah; blah; blah; blah; blah
>>>    blah; blah; blah; blah; blah; blah

Which hides the 'while' quite well He said there was no colon - he
said nothing about semicolons.

This was not true for the original PEP315 suggestion, nor for my own,
which is...

  while True :
    blah; blah; blah; blah
    blah; blah; blah; blah
  break if condition :
    blah; blah; blah; blah
    blah; blah; blah; blah

Even with a severe case of not-enough-whitespace, it is still clear
where the loop exit point is.

>What I /don't/ like about it is the overloading of the "while"
>keyword.  I would much sooner reverse the condition and use "until",
>though I realise the back-compatibility issues of introducing new
>keywords.

I agree. That's why I suggested 'break if' - it reuses existing
keywords, yet is unambiguous and explicit about what it is doing. The
sense of the condition seems unimportant to me (a boolean not is
simple enough) so the fact that 'break if' reads more like 'until'
than 'while' seems irrelevant to me.

Actually, I kind of like the fact that it will normally be an easy
drop-in replacement for 'if condition : break'.

In itself, I don't think my suggestion is compelling - but as an
alternative to the existing PEP315, on the assumption that some change
is going to happen, I think my idea has significant merit.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From malcolm.wood3 at ntlworld.com  Mon Sep 29 17:45:44 2003
From: malcolm.wood3 at ntlworld.com (Mac Wood)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 14:45:44 -0700
Subject: error explanation
Message-ID: <13df83a2.0309291345.32db8a2b@posting.google.com>

Could someone please explain this error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python23\time.py", line 1, in -toplevel-
    time.py
NameError: name 'time' is not defined

I tried entering the following example:

time.py
#This programs calculates rate and distance problems
print "Input a rate and a distance"
rate = input("Rate:")
distance = input("Distance:")
print "Time:",distance/rate

which according to the tutor should have run as this:

> python times.py
Input a rate and a distance
Rate:5
Distance:10
Time: 2
Thanks for your help



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 26 10:24:19 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:24:19 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
In-Reply-To: <m365jgv5x4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <200309240802.h8O82mqF026019@localhost.localdomain>
        <m2zngtx2ob.fsf@deacon-blues.mid.mastaler.com>
        <m365jgv5x4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16244.19475.777510.550060@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Martin> "Jason R. Mastaler" <jason at mastaler.com> writes:
    >> Python 2.3.1 (#1, Sep 24 2003, 15:55:24) 
    >> [GCC 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7)] on linux2
    >> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >> >>> from os import fsync
    >> Traceback (most recent call last):
    >> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    >> ImportError: cannot import name fsync
    >> >>> 

    Martin> Why is that a bug? Your system just does not have a declared
    Martin> fsync function.

No, it was a typo in the configure scripts.  I checked in a fix for both the
head and release23-maint branches yesterday.  Red Hat 8.0 does have fsync:

    FSYNC(2)                   Linux Programmer's Manual                  FSYNC(2)

    NAME
           fsync,  fdatasync  -  synchronize  a file's complete in-core state with
           that on disk
    ...

That is from an 8.0 system.

Skip




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Sep 23 20:15:19 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:15:19 -0700
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-0A1531.17151923092003@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7 at posting.google.com>,
 joseph at ugcs.caltech.edu (John Lin) wrote:

> I want to know how to tell if a forked process is done.
> 
> Actually, my real question is that I want to run a shell script inside
> of a python script, and after the shell script has finished running, I
> want to do more stuff *condition* on the fact that the shell script
> has finished running, inside the same python script.
> 
> The only way I can think of is to fork a process and then call the
> shell script, as in:
>   pid = os.fork()
>   if pid == 0:
>     os.execl(shellscript_name.sh, "")
> but how can I know if the shell script is finished?
> 
> In sum, my two questions are:
> 1.  How can I know if a forked shell script is finished?
> 2.  How can I run a shell script inside a python script without
> forking a new process, so that I can know the shell script is done
> from within the same python script?

The simplest way to do what you appear to want is
   os.system("shellscript_path")

If any of the command line is actually going to come
from input data, or you have some other reason to prefer
an argument list like exec, see os.spawnv and similar,
with os.P_WAIT as first parameter.  Or if your next
question is going to be how to read from a pipe between
the two processes, see os.popen() for starters.

All of these functions will fork a process, but they use
waitpid or some similar function to suspend the calling
process until the fork exits.  See man 2 waitpid, which
is available from python as posix.waitpid() or os.waitpid().

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw  Thu Sep 18 08:26:35 2003
From: fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (Fortepianissimo)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 05:26:35 -0700
Subject: semantic operation in simpleparse?
Message-ID: <ef08387c.0309180426.57278554@posting.google.com>

A while ago I decided to use simpleparse to write a parser for a kind
of formula representation that I created. This representation is
typed, so there're invalid parses to reject based on sematnics ground
(type mismatch, etc.) I checked simpleparse documentation, and the
only thing which seems to be close is this CallTag thing, but it
doesn't seem to be able to block a parse.

I'd appreciate if someone can show me some example code doing this -
just a skeleton of things. Thank you!



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 23 22:13:48 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 02:13:48 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <vn1uus5a74ce3a@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <w57cb.1289$RW4.1142@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

John Roth:
> There are objects that support iteration that
> don't support len(), such as file objects.

Sure.  Then it'll given an exception.  The implementation
should turn around and raise the proper exception there
instead of a "len doesn't exist" one.

There's also a problem that len works on a dict but
__getitem__(int) will only work if the dict stores 0->n-1
as keys.

> This has got the advantage, of course, that it would
> automatically work on all objects that support
> an sequence-like protocol, though.

Yup.

> Frankly, I prefer the notion of a method.

While I don't.  There are many, many ways to
iterate through a list.  (What about all evens
followed by all odds?)  Right now they are all
done by using a function which creates an iterator
across a container.  If it's a method then you've
said that reverse_iter is special enough that it
must be a method, which seems strange for something
which is so infrequently used.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep  2 11:27:31 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:27:31 -0400
Subject: **kwds behavior?
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vl9dmcj0fplbd6@news.supernews.com>

The description of the locals() function is:

Update and return a dictionary representing the current local symbol table.
Warning: The contents of this dictionary should not be modified; changes may
not affect the values of local variables used by the interpreter.

Note that this implies that the dictionary is essentially
read only. What you're trying to do shouldn't work.

John Roth

"Paradox" <JoeyTaj at netzero.com> wrote in message
news:924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb at posting.google.com...
> Why does the following attempts to pass in keywords arguments not
> work. It would be alot cooler if there was a way to not have to have
> the function defined with the variable name. It really seems to me
> that the 3rd function should work. Does anyone know how to accomplish
> something like this.
> def testKeywords1 (**kwds):
> print x
>
> def testKeywords2 (**kwds):
> locals().update(kwds)
> print x
>
> def testKeywords3 (**kwds):
> locals().update(kwds)
> def testNested():
> print x
> testNested()
>
> dict = {}
> dict['x'] = 5
> # doesn't work
> testKeywords1(**dict)
> # doesn't work
> testKeywords2(**dict)
> # doesn't work
> testKeywords3(**dict)





From ark at acm.org  Fri Sep 26 13:43:11 2003
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:43:11 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <yu99brt7igy8.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>

Stephen> I doubt the need for exclusive ranges in integer for loops. I
Stephen> also doubt the need for switching between different range
Stephen> systems (inclusive, exclusive, half-open). IMO there is more
Stephen> confusion than anything down those routes.

Really?  I would expect a common usage to be:

        for 0 <= index < len(list):
             do something with list[index]

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at acm.org



From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Thu Sep 11 15:32:36 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:32:36 -0500
Subject: FIFO problems
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624506@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Steve Holden [mailto:sholden at holdenweb.com] 
> 
> "Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote ...
> > "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in
> > news:tJZ7b.67$o71.53 at news2.central.cox.net:
> >
[...]
> > >
> > > while 1:
> > >     line = serverIn.readline()
> > >     if not line:
> > >         break
> > >     del line[:-1]
> > >     if line == "bla":
> > >         do something incredibly interesting
> > >     else:
> > >         print line
> >
> > Untested is right. Your 'del' statement is a little bit too 
> > destructive, or at least it would be if strings were mutable.
> >
> :-) Well, I can only remind myself that "the person who never 
> made a mistake never made anything".
> 
> > Here's my (equally untested) alternative:
> >
> > for line in serverIn:
> >     line = line[:-1]
> >     if line == "bla":
> >         do something incredibly interesting
> >     else:
> >         print line
> >
> 
> Unfortunately this doesn't include the end-of-file test [...]

.. the iterator doesn't?

-- bjorn




From grisha at modpython.org  Mon Sep 22 15:59:34 2003
From: grisha at modpython.org (Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:59:34 -0400
Subject: Python ISPs
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0309190541.691b842d@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
 <bkd551$f0b2$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <6ee58e07.0309190541.691b842d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030922154936.S25097@onyx.ispol.com>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Lothar Scholz wrote:

>
>
> "Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in message news:<bkd551$f0b2$1 at ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > "Paradox" <JoeyTaj at netzero.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef at posting.google.com...
> > > Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
> > > seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
> > > this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
> > > leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
> > > solution.
> >
> > You could go for one of those virtual servers all for yourself...
> >
>
> Most (all !?) of this virtual servers are the worst i've ever seen.
>
> Putting 100 customers on a 1 GB 2x2 GHz maschine is not a good thing
> if everyone must install there own MySQL,Apache etc.

All web hosting companies suck this way. Only a dedicated physical server
would not have this issue.

But second to a colocation or a dedicated physical server, virtual servers
(especially FreeBSD jail(8) based) are the best (low cost) solution for
mod_python. I understand there are companies that have mod_python loaded
on a shared instance of Apache and provide access to databases using db
access controls, but I would never use such a service because there is no
way it can be anywhere nearly as secure (and in most cases it's just plain
insecure).


Grisha



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Thu Sep 25 23:02:05 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:02:05 -0700
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <slrnap4tni.18h.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <vn7b1fbunj0u47@corp.supernews.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I don't remember if the actual DOS system calls accepted '/' or if
> the C library translated.  I do know that DOS C programs could
> use '/' for path separator at least 20 years ago.

It was the DOS system calls.

-Mike





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 19:12:41 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:12:41 +0100
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
References: <b3Jcb.24430$dk4.777126@typhoon.sonic.net> <mailman.1064528557.22231.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79t6nvceo80m6cumskpqdmipa921da054o@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:19:00 -0700, Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com>
wrote:

>> Well, since I'm not worried about "flexible", have my doubts about the
>> "much slower" part,
>
>Your implementation is O(n) with the number of entries while the Python
>implementation is O(log(n)). If n is small then your implementation
>might be acceptably fast. Can't you just use the STL hash_map template
>class?

Are you sure Python dictionaries are O(log n)? - Remember, they are
based on hashing.

Simple hashing is O(1). Handling of collisions and stuff will affect
that (and I'm no expert on hashing techniques) but I can't help
wondering if you're confusing Pythons hashing with tree-based
techniques.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Sep 16 17:18:30 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:18:30 -0400
Subject: Unicode Newbie
In-Reply-To: <m3n0d45xoz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <20030909162009.0247ce9d.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch> <mailman.1063119495.15165.python-list@python.org> <20030916124656.254a24ca.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch> <m3n0d45xoz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030916211830.GA19800@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Martin von L?wis]
> Manuel Huesser <sylphaleya at hta.fhz.ch> writes:
> 
> > Yep Unicode supports less characters than there are possible with
> > utf-8 (ucs range = 2 ** 31).
> > 
> > so there is no possibility to support the full range of the ucs
> > character set with python?
> 
> The ucs range (for UCS-4) is *not* 2**31; it is 17*2**16. It was 2**32
> in ISO/IEC 10646:1993 (I believe), but it got constrained in 10646:2000.

I think UCS-4 is (or at least was) defined for 2**31 code points only.  I
do not know why the sign bit was excluded (maybe to avoid problems with
negative values for code points?), but if you consider the logic of
UTF-8, you will see than one full byte would be needed to support the
32th bit.  This does not mean it was the reason, I do not know.

UTF-16 has 17*2**16 code points.  I did not recently study the legal
verses, but my overall impression is that UTF-16 has been more or less
integrated in UCS-2 in more recent Unicode versions, and made official.
I do not know exactly what means UCS-2 nowadays, as it does not really
exist anymore as defined originally (with the intent of being fixed
width).  Unless UCS-2 is 2**16 - 2**11 codepoints?  The surrogate areas
cannot sensibly be part of it, at least nowadays.  Hmph!  I should
really read recent legal texts when I get to dive in such areas... :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 18 04:56:32 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:56:32 +0200
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org> <y8wmfu6t.fsf@python.net>
 <mailman.1063870645.4121.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oexifpa7.fsf@python.net>

Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:

> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Thomas Heller wrote:
>
>> Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
>> > is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
>> > straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with sockets
>> > and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.
>>
>> For windows?
>>
>> <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.windows/969>
>
> I want to get this done on both Windows (2000/XP) and (Redhat) Linux (7.x
> or higher).
>
> Isn't there a way to wrap a call to urllib.urlopen in some kind of timer,
> so that the call fails if there is no answer in N seconds? (I.e. if
> urllib.urlopen cannot open a specific web page in N seconds, then I
> assume that the reason is that the computer is not online.) That would be
> good enough for me. Any suggestions?

Of course you can do it this way. Or even simpler with the socket
module.

But it depends on what you exactly want:
It's been quite a time that I had a dial-up connection, but IIRC,
trying network activity when the computer was not connected would result
in Windows trying to establish the connection.

To conclude: the above mentioned URL contains code which exactly answers
your original question.

Thomas



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 02:06:41 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:06:41 +0100
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <nD7cb.2405$PT3.395618@news20.bellglobal.com> <Fi9cb.1443$RW4.368@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4bc2nv07g7hcfd9nm291n3s3aarkifu1a7@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:44:21 GMT, "Andrew Dalke"
<adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>-1 from me.  'backwards' looks to me like something which changes
>the list ordering in place, like what 'reverse' does.  Or something
>which returns a new list but in reverse order.  It's an adjective,
>when it should be a verb.

I disagree with this. IMO something that modifies a value in place
should be named using a verb (such as reverse, or sort, or update...).
Something that returns a value without modifying its parameters/object
should be named to describe what it returns - normally a noun or
adjective (such as globals, len, isinstance).

So if we had a sorting function that returns a sorted version of the
parameter without modifying its parameter, I'd want it to be called
'sorted' as opposed to the current in-place 'sort'.

Of course there are non-modifying functions that are named as verbs
(map, filter and reduce being particularly obvious), but that does
seems slightly wrong to me - though for the ones I've listed there is
basically an overriding convention (they are well known names).


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Mon Sep  1 04:44:53 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 18:44:53 +1000
Subject: homebrew 2.3 install on RedHat9 not playing nice with Tkinter 
In-Reply-To: <200309010934.31138.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> 
Message-ID: <200309010844.h818irXD025002@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Martin Franklin wrote
> On way round this little problem would be to build your own Tcl/Tk
> (thats what I did)  Not only will you get a working Python 2.3 but you get the 
> new options in Tk 8.4 too all for an extra couple of downloads and about 30 
> mins of 'work'.

Alternatively, use the RPMs I built from 
http://www.interlink.com.au/anthony/tech/rh9-tcltk/

These replace the RH9 Tcl/Tk RPMs with ones that are built from the
vanilla Tcl/Tk sources; the Redhat breakage is removed. They can just
be installed with rpm -U tcl*.rpm tk*.rpm 

>From a brief look at the beta of Redhat 10 that's available, they
appear to have fixed tcl/tk to work properly again (well, at least
tcl/tk applications no longer consume tens of megabytes per day).


Anthony

-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep 23 07:54:32 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:54:32 -0500
Subject: Factory function to generate a named class
In-Reply-To: <3f702b3a$0$23594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
References: <3f702b3a$0$23594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <20030923115427.GA30467@unpythonic.net>

Populate a dict with a mapping from class names to class objects:

d = {}
def register(cls):
    d[cls.__name__] = cls

def factory(clsname, model):
    try:
        factory = d[clsname]
    except KeyError:
        raise TypeError, "Class %s not registered" % clsname

    return factory(model)

class ViewController: pass
register(ViewController)

If you absolutely want this to be automatic, a metaclass trick can
probably be played to do it.  Something like:
    class FactoryMeta(type):
        def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
            super(FactoryMeta, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
            register(cls)

    class Factory(object):
        __metaclass__ = "FactoryMeta"
    del d["Factory"] # Unregister this "abstract" class

All code is untested.

Jeff




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com  Fri Sep 19 06:49:47 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:49:47 +0200
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
References: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com> <LIAab.7544$9G2.6227@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bkemib$bjr$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

M-a-S wrote:
> I'm not sure if that't the reason, but the binary mode for reading is 'rb'.
> Actually, the order of 'r' and 'b' shouldn't matter. But the '+' has a different
> meaning: the file should allow "opposite" access as well, e.g. 'r+', 'rb+'
> means that you can write to the file too, while 'w+' means: open it for
> writing but permit reading too. You can try to say 'rt' for the read/text mode.

Sorry, but no you can't: the default is to open the file in text mode, and you 
can change it with a 'b', but 't' has no meaning at all. BTW, 'b' also has no 
meaning at all on all Unices: the so-called "binary" or "text" mode are the 
same, i.e. what is read is what is in the file. Windows needs it only because of 
its superfluous \r's at the end of each line.

> Anyway, you program works under Windows XP/Python 2.3 as expected:
> 
> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
> 
> C:\Home\Programming\Python\2>py
> Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>^Z
>>>
> 
> C:\Home\Programming\Python\2>test.py
> Filepointer:   0
> Filepointer:  12
> Filepointer:  24
> Filepointer:  35
> Filepointer:  54
> 
> Filepointer:   0
> Filepointer:  12
> Filepointer:  24
> Filepointer:  35
> Filepointer:  54
> 
> I'm sorry if it doesn't help. The bug must be somewhere else then.
> 
> M-a-S
> 
> 
> "Peter Abel" <p-abel at t-online.de> wrote in message news:13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60 at posting.google.com...
> 
>>Hi all,
>>I'm working under W2k with
                     ===
>>Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32

I do confirm the methods tell and/or seek are broken on Win2K when you open the 
file in text mode: doing myFile.seek(myFile.tell()) is not a no-op. The "ghost" 
\r's at the end of lines seem to be taken into account by one of the methods and 
not by the other one. The problem also happens on Win98.

I don't know if it's a Python bug or a bug in the underlying C API. Knowing 
Windows, and considering the Python wrapper must be quite trivial, I'd bet on 
the C API...

The only workaround I found was to always open the files in binary mode, and 
explicitely ignore the \r's.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From john.abel at pa.press.net  Sat Sep 20 06:56:21 2003
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:56:21 +0100
Subject: Help Compiling 64bit Python
Message-ID: <3F6C3255.6010606@pa.press.net>

I'm having a bit of hassle, trying to compile Python in 64bit mode on 
Solaris8, using GCC 3.1/3.3 (tried both).  I've set the relevant 
settings ( export CC="gcc -mcpu=v9 -m64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE=1" - 
hopefully) before ./configure, which seems to work OK.  The problem 
happens halfway through the make.  It produces the following output:

c++   -o python \
                Modules/python.o \
                libpython2.3.a -lresolv -lsocket -lnsl -lrt -ldl  
-lpthread   -lm
ld: fatal: file Modules/python.o: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
ld: fatal: File processing errors. No output written to python
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [python] Error 1

I'd be very grateful for any pointers.

Regards

John





From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 20:08:14 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 18:08:14 -0600
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjgh9i$64a$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Tim Parkin wrote:

> Fernando:
>> That's why you really need to post a readable
>> html site, not a png:  it's almost impossible for anyone but you to
>> properly judge the site with graphical screenshots. It takes a long

> time to create a professional html design that is cross browser to
> the extent needed for this site and also as accessibile as possible.
> I am unwilling to spend this amount of time just to get some feedback
> on a design that might possibly be used. To give you an idea of how
> much this HTML design would cost from a consultancy (which is what
> pollenation is), calculate professional rates at approx thirty two
> hours work (my guess, about ?1,600 or maybe $2,500). Could someone
> please explain why it's impossible to judge the design of the site
> without it being rendered as HTML. Perhaps the accessibility / speed
> needs HTML, but not the design. Do people feel that the design would
> be impossible to create as a optimal HTML entity?

Well, with an image, nobody can tell if the layout remains sensible when users
set drastically different font defaults.  I, for one, use a laptop with a 14
in, 1600x1200 LCD.  I have fairly large font defaults set in mozilla, and my
fonts look gorgeous (many individual pixels per letter, they read almost like
printed paper).  Properly coded sites are no problem, the layout flows around
the text and it all looks just fine.  But I've also seen sites where the text
splatters all over the graphical elements, because those elements assumed a
fixed pixel size that text would never exceed.  Sites like that are a disaster
to read.

By looking only at a static png, I (or others in a similar situation), have no
way of knowing whether your proposed design would work ok or not with our font
choices.

I had assumed you had taken a screenshot from an existing test site in your
browser.  From your other posts, I'm starting to guess that you actually 'drew'
the design in a graphics program.  So I don't know if it's even possible for
you to provide in short order a functional mockup.

But you said you wanted this discussion in a marketing list I just don't have
the time to subscribe to, so I won't continue to post here further.  Good luck,

Fernando.



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Fri Sep  5 04:15:05 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:15:05 -0700
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <vlghga7qve2167@corp.supernews.com>

Sophie All?on wrote:
>...
> have a triangle class  (made of 3 edges)
> have an edge   class   (made of 2 points and embeding a triangle
> list (those connected to the edge)
>
> for each triangle construct its edges but I have to check if the
> edge already exists
>
> for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key
> is a string while I want it to be the 2 points forming the edge ?
> How to do it ?

Sophie, dictionary keys can be just about any immutable value. They can be
tuples, if the tuples contain only strings, numbers, or other tuples:

>>> d = { (1,2): 'one two', (3,4): 'three four' }
>>> d
{(1, 2): 'one two', (3, 4): 'three four'}
>>> d[(1,2)]
'one two'
>>> d[(3,4)]
'three four'
>>>

For more information, see the Dictionaries section in the Python tutorial:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/

-Mike





From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Sep 19 05:40:29 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:40:29 +0200
Subject: Access to Win API
In-Reply-To: <d541d61d12758a2b45ea1de78809beac@news.meganetnews.com>
References: <d541d61d12758a2b45ea1de78809beac@news.meganetnews.com>
Message-ID: <3F6ACF0D.5000403@ghaering.de>

Ladv?nszky K?roly wrote:
> What is the best way to access Win API functions that are not present in the
> various extension packages. Is writing a C extension the only solution?

You don't have to write a C extension, you can use ctypes instead.

-- Gerhard




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Sep 19 15:12:35 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:12:35 -0300
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FBE@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- The only problem is that I have no idea how to override operators in
#- python.  Can anyone give me a few trivial examples of how it is done?

Check the "language reference". There you'll find a lot of methods that get
called when you do what you?re trying to do. For example, methods __add__
and __radd__ when you do qDate + 5...


#- And, on a completely unrelated note, I am getting a truly 
#- amazing amount
#- of spam today.  Anyone else?

Yes, me. And my employeers makes me to use Outlook (bloody exchange server),
and it sucks as spam filter...

.	Facundo





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From lk at digicart.hu  Fri Sep 19 06:45:37 2003
From: lk at digicart.hu (Ladvánszky Károly)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:45:37 GMT
Subject: Access to Win API
References: <d541d61d12758a2b45ea1de78809beac@news.meganetnews.com> <mailman.1063964485.26108.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0c58d500ac94b27d7f8ff87a2a59f6e1@news.meganetnews.com>

Thanks for your help. I remember once I tried a Python cookbook sample code
that included ctypes but now 'import ctypes' does not work.
Should ctypes come together with the 2.3 installation?

K?roly

"Gerhard H?ring" <gh at ghaering.de> az al?bbiakat ?rta a k?vetkezo
h?r?zenetben: mailman.1063964485.26108.python-list at python.org...
Ladv?nszky K?roly wrote:
> What is the best way to access Win API functions that are not present in
the
> various extension packages. Is writing a C extension the only solution?

You don't have to write a C extension, you can use ctypes instead.

-- Gerhard





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 26 10:59:17 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:59:17 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <3F745445.D9628351@engcorp.com>

Nicolas Fleury wrote:
> 
> I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For
> example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered
> incomplete?

What should Python do in the following case?

   a = 5 +
   someFunc(a)

Okay, you want it to quietly add 5 and the result of someFunc() together and 
assign to "a".  What if I told you that I actually had intended to add 5
plus "b" and assign to a, then call someFunc() and discard the return value.

You've just turned a nice clean error message from the compiler into a 
silent and possibly deadly bug.

"Explicit is better than implicit, and errors should never pass silently"
as has been noted again recently in another thread.

-Peter



From CanardFurieux at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 16:54:51 2003
From: CanardFurieux at hotmail.com (CanardWC)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:54:51 +0200
Subject: Calling Python from PHP
References: <un5cmvg9qdga3btgod9vrq51k12atqjj3u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bk58va$f5d$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>

"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> a ?crit dans le message de
> We need to use PHP with MQSeries, however PHP does not have a MQ interface
> afaik. So my question is: Can Python be used as a proxy for PHP to call
into
> Python libraries, specifically PyMQI?

Have you try this ?
http://pear.php.net/package-info.php?package=mqseries





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Sep  7 08:57:19 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:57:19 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <bjebpo$h85$1@panix3.panix.com> <VlOdnTfgosIdRceiXTWJhg@comcast.com> <bjf60f$iqc$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vlmape4gtfch1a@news.supernews.com>

"Stephan Diehl" <stephan.diehl at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:bjf60f$iqc$07$1 at news.t-online.com...
>
> >
> > The current site is, for me, one of the most readable sites aronnd.
> > The text colors work and it lets Internet Explorer adjust the text
> > size.
> >
> > The pollenation site is one of the worst I have seen.  The mockup page
> > has teeny type that IE will not enlarge.  (Telling me to use another
> > browser is besides the point.  Lots of people will continue to visit
> > with IE even if I do switch.)  The comments page has barely readable
> > dark-brown gray type on a lighter brown-gray background..  These pages
> > should only be used as examples of what not to do and how not to spoil
> > what we already have.
>
> It is absolutely beyond me, how IE should display the mockpage any
> differently than other browsers.
> On Mozilla, the page loads as:
>
> <body>
> <img src="python-web6.png" />
> </body>

It loads the same on IE. The problem that Terry is complaining
about results from it being a mockup: you're displaying a PNG, so it's
understandable that attempts to resize the type or change the
foreground or background colors won't work.

John Roth
>
> Stephan
>





From erwin at andreasen.com  Sun Sep 28 14:46:23 2003
From: erwin at andreasen.com (Erwin S. Andreasen)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 20:46:23 +0200
Subject: Getting C++ object from PyObject *
References: <fj65nvk1sqq0futtqg374r6917gbfqkb35@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87lls83g5c.fsf@andreasen.org>

Nikolai Kirsebom <nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no> writes:

> I'm using BOOST to integrate Python into our application.  Could
> someone tell me how I get hold of the C++ object (pointer to the
> object instance) from a PyObject *.

> How would I code the SetInput method:
> 
> void MyObjectB::SetInput(PyObject *o)
> {
> //Check that type of 'o' is an (instance) object of class 'MyObjectA'
> //Fetch the pointer (reference) to the actual instance of MyObjectA
> MyObjectA * ca = .....

If you want setInput to be able to take any python object, use the
"object" type instead that boost::python provides. That will take care
of refcounting etc. and provide easier access to calling methdos on
the Python objects.

Once you have an object, you can try a conversion using "extract":

 MyObjectA *m = extract<MyObjectA*>(o);

This throws on failure. There's another way to do it, which doesn't
throw. See:

http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/tutorial/doc/extracting_c___objects.html


However, I'm not sure you need this manual work at all -- just making
SetInput take a MyObjectA* directly should make boost::python generate
the correct code in the wrapper, and raise an exception if the types
do not match.



-- 
===============================================================
<erwin at andreasen.org>                           Herlev, Denmark     
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>                             <*>   
===============================================================




From mpeuser at web.de  Sun Sep  7 02:23:19 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:23:19 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours> <87r82tpmnq.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bjeitp$q78$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com>
> OK.  (actually, um, do ASICs have any code in them at all?  can't
> actually remember what they are...)
>
Fascinating stuff! Goggle also for VHDL and FPGA. And yes, ASICs and FPGAs
are programmed and that might turn out to become one of the greater problems
in the next years.

(Alex, please don't comment, if possible)

>
> Indeed, IIRC David Beazley wrote SWIG for just that purpose
> (controlling molecular dynamics simulations of some kind from Python).
> I think there's a paper about it, probably on the SWIG site.
>
> Plenty of other examples, of course.  Tcl is still quite popular for
> this purpose, since that's what Ousterhout designed it for!  And I
> know Python has been ported to various Cray machines.

With respect to "glue languages" this has to be expected. They probably will
also use their job control language ;-)
Notice that there is no longer any Cray among the Top 10 of supercomputing.

My former argument refered to the fact that most supercomputers are build to
utmost performance. It makes no sense to degrade that by some in-between
virtual machine. The argument of programmers (=programming scientists) cost
and productivity does not hold so strictly in academic circles.

Kindly
Michael P
>
>
> John





From herrn at gmx.net  Tue Sep  9 15:35:30 2003
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:35:30 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
Message-ID: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake>

Hi,

I am writing a program that has to instantiate a class from which I
don't know the name until runtime. That leads to two problems for me.

1. How to do the import? I didn't find a way to give a string to the
   import statement.

2. How to write such code to instantiate?

The first is a problem, when I don't know where the classes reside.
Currently it is planned that all these classes reside in a specific
subdirectory. Is it possible to say 'import * from subdirectory' ?
What other problems could occur here and how could I avoid them?

And to the second question, I have no idea about how to do this. Any
hints?


Bye
Marco

-- 
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736




From br_y at yahoo.de  Thu Sep  4 02:12:57 2003
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:12:57 +0200
Subject: Arguments of function as out
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com> <wzoey20yy4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Thank you,
I've already read this, but I hoped, there is a way to get these out
parameters beside this.
Because I cant redesign the function on the server side. So I have only the
possibility to change the client side code, which calls this function.
It seems there is no way in python to use it and get the new out paramter
value after finishing the function.
Birgit


"Piet van Oostrum" <piet at cs.uu.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:wzoey20yy4.fsf at nono.cs.uu.nl...
> >>>>> "Birgit Rahm" <br_y at yahoo.de> (BR) wrote:
>
> BR> Hallo Newsgroup,
>
> BR> I have the following problem:
> BR> I work with Python 2.2 and invoke functions via CORBA ( I use
> BR> onmiORB/omniORBpy) on a server.
> BR> The server provides me a function, where the 3 arguments are
out-arguments
> BR> and the return is void / None.
> BR> How can I get these out arguments?
> BR> I have read that every argument is seen as local to the function and
> BR> can not be used as return value.
> BR> (I can't redesign the server function.)
> BR> Can I make the 3 arguments global before they were used in the
function?
> BR> Does this help me?
> BR> Or what can I do?
>
> This is described in the Python language binding:
>
> Operations of an interface map to methods available on the object
references.
> Parameters with a parameter attribute of in or inout are passed from left
to
> right to the method, skipping out parameters. The return value of a method
> depends on the number of out parameters and the return type. If the
> operation returns a value, this value forms the first result value. All
> inout or out parameters form consecutive result values. The method result
> depends then on the number of result values:
>
> * If there is no result value, the method returns None.
> * If there is exactly one result value, it is returned as a single value.
> * If there is more than one result value, all of them are packed into a
>   tuple, and this tuple is returned.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
> URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
> Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl





From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep  4 03:25:03 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:25:03 +0200
Subject: strings
References: <y2z5b.81796$bo1.42513@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <bj6pn8$obb$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Scribe wrote:

> Hi
> Somewhat new to Python and would appreciated some help in selecting the
> best builtins to achieve what I want.
> I pass a string to a function, it is either
> empty
> spaces
> alpha and digits
> or
> a decimal ie. 5,789.88
> if it is a decimal I want to return the number without the commer any
> others return 0.
> Should be simple or maybe I am.
> Any help apreciated.

import locale

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ("en", None))

def strtofloat(s):
    try:
        return locale.atof(s)
        #return float(s.replace(",", ""))
    except ValueError:
        return 0.0


for s in "a 0 12 123.4 12,345.67 12,24a".split():
    print s, "->", strtofloat(s)

Output:
a -> 0.0
0 -> 0.0
12 -> 12.0
123.4 -> 123.4
12,345.67 -> 12345.67
12,24a -> 0.0

Peter



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Sep 17 14:28:34 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:28:34 -0300
Subject: Money data type
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F8D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Can't find it.

I mean something like:

>> m1 = Money(decimal=2)
>> m2 = Money(decimal=2)
>> m1.value = 3.20
>> m2.value = 2.15
>> print m1 + m2
5.35

5.35! Not 5.3500000000000001 neither 5.34999999999999999999.

I think this is not a rare thing, but I can't find it in the standar library
neither the package index.

Thanks!

.	Facundo




From stain at ozelot.stud.ntnu.no  Thu Sep 11 22:07:57 2003
From: stain at ozelot.stud.ntnu.no (Stian =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8iland?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:07:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Recursive import within packages
Message-ID: <slrnbm2ajt.np4.stain@ozelot.stud.ntnu.no>

all examples performed with:

Python 2.3+ (#2, Aug 10 2003, 11:09:33) 
[GCC 3.3.1 20030728 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
(2, 3, 0, 'final', 1)



This is a recursive import:

-- blapp.py --
print "Blapp start"
import blupp
print "Blapp end"

-- blupp.py --
print "Blupp start" 
import blapp
print "Blupp end"


This works like a charm:

>>> import blapp
Blapp start
Blupp start
Blupp end
Blapp end


The same files with a directory thing with __init__:

>>> from thing import blapp
Blapp start
Blupp start
Blupp end
Blapp end



Changing the imports to import thing.blupp and import thing.blapp:

>>> from thing import blapp
Blapp start
Blupp start
Blupp end
Blapp end



Adding a print of the module with:

print "Blapp end", blupp


results in:

>>> import blapp
Blapp start
Blupp start
Blupp end <module 'blapp' from 'blapp.py'>
Blapp end <module 'blupp' from 'blupp.py'>




Changing to:

import thing.blapp as blapp  

and vice versa


>>> from thing import blapp
Blapp start
Blupp start
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "thing/blapp.py", line 2, in ?
    import thing.blupp as blupp
  File "thing/blupp.py", line 2, in ?
    import thing.blapp as blapp
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'blapp'



Changing to:

from thing import blapp

and vice versa


>>> from thing import blapp
Blapp start
Blupp start
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "thing/blapp.py", line 2, in ?
    from thing.blupp import blupp
  File "thing/blupp.py", line 2, in ?
    from thing import blapp
ImportError: cannot import name blapp




And finally:

print "Blapp start"
import thing.blupp
print "Blapp end", thing.blupp


(and vice versa)


>>> from thing import blapp
Blapp start
Blupp start
Blupp end
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "thing/blapp.py", line 2, in ?
    import thing.blupp
  File "thing/blupp.py", line 3, in ?
    print "Blupp end", thing.blapp
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'blapp'


Adding a print of dir(thing) verifies  this:

-- blapp.py -- (and vice versa)
print "Blapp start"
import thing.blupp
print dir(thing)
print "Blapp end"


>>> import thing.blupp
Blupp start
Blapp start
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__']
Blapp end
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__', 'blapp']
Blupp end



-- blapp.py -- 

print "Blapp start"
import thing.blupp
import thing.notexisting
print "Blapp end", thing.blupp

>>> from thing import blupp
Blupp start
Blapp start
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "thing/blupp.py", line 2, in ?
    import thing.blapp
  File "thing/blapp.py", line 3, in ?
    import thing.notexisting
ImportError: No module named notexisting



Now, could anyone please explain to me the logic involved here? 

Why is circular import only valid when accessing them without package
name? It clearly works by not using full references, even to print the
module while the other module is being loaded. 

The user-fix to the problem is of course:

  a) Don't use circular references
  b) delay circular import until module usage
     (ie. within class/function)
  c) Use relative modulenames (works only within the same package)
  d) import thing.blapp - but don't expect thing.blapp to be there
     until module usage (ie. within class/function)


But my question is why this works outside packages, but not inside
packages. This must be a bug, but I can't find it anywhere in the bugs
section on SourceForge.

(A google search for 'circular import' on Google seems impossible =) Way
too many circle-square-shape-examples!)

The FAQ says:
 
 Circular imports are fine where both modules use the "import <module>"
 form of import. They fail when the 2nd module wants to grab a name
 out of the first ("from module import name") and the import is at    
 the top level. That's because names in the 1st are not yet available,
 (the first module is busy importing the 2nd).  

However that is not correct in this case, the "thing" module is loaded
and works fine, it is the name thing.blapp that is not registered until
after blapp is loaded. In my opinion thing.blapp should be bound before
the actuall import of thing.blapp.

Actually, thing.blapp gets registered into sys.modules right away.


-- 
Stian S?iland               Being able to break security doesn't make
Trondheim, Norway           you a hacker more than being able to hotwire
http://stain.portveien.to/  cars makes you an automotive engineer. [ESR]



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Sep 26 11:11:56 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:11:56 -0400
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
In-Reply-To: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEICGCAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[David Abrahams]
> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
> disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where are they?

Well, the only sane way to try to find anything on the web anymore has
become google.  google on

    Python PEP

and the top hit is the right hit:

    http://www.python.org/peps/


python.org's own sometimes-working search page will also take you to it.

The most straightforward path from the python.org home page is probably via
the Developers link.  Then <http://www.python.org/dev/> has links to the PEP
index, SF bug and patch managers, SF CVS browser, and so on.





From timh at zute.net  Wed Sep 10 10:39:23 2003
From: timh at zute.net (Tim Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:39:23 +0800
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
In-Reply-To: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com>
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f5f3667$1@news.highway1.com.au>

Hi Stephen

The bit I can't fathom is why you would want to do this ?
At least in the case of the simple example you give.

In your example aren't you really asking for a reference to a reference 
to be passed, because in Python you always just pass a reference to an 
object, in the sense that x = 1 is variable x pointing to the integer 
object 1.

When you call inc function you are taking an immutable object 1 and 
creating a new object which is the result of adding 1 to 1. And what you 
are then asking it to rebind the variable x to point to the new int 
object 2 inside the function.

Why you would want to do this is unclear. Secondly if it where a more 
abstract object it would have an increment method which you could call 
on the object which was passed to the function.

So again I just can't see why you want to do it.

Maybe I am missing something here

Tim


Stephen Horne wrote:
> I have in the past suggested that Python functions could use some kind
> of modifier token for parameters to indicate pass-by-reference, so
> that immutable items in particular could be modified (or more
> accurately replaced) by the function, with that modification affecting
> what the caller sees. In case I'm explaining this badly, here is how
> Python currently works...
> 
> 
>>>>def Inc(p) :
> 
> ...   p += 1
> ...
> 
>>>>x = 1
>>>>Inc(x)
>>>>x
> 
> 1
> 
> ... and here is (roughly) what I'd like to be able to do...
> 
> 
>>>>def Inc(ref p) :
> 
> ...   p += 1
> ...
> 
>>>>x = 1
>>>>Inc(x)
>>>>x


  stuff removed.


> I would then be able to write...
> 
> 
>>>>def Inc(ref p) :
> 
> ...   p += 1
> ...
> 
>>>>x = 1
>>>>Inc(ref x)
>>>>x
> 
> 2
> 
> Obviously the implementation would not be trivial, but i think this
> would be a very useful feature.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Sep 29 19:28:06 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:28:06 -0700
Subject: Python question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064873081.7223.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064873081.7223.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f78c007$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

John D. wrote:
> #This program gives: "SyntaxError: unqualified exec is not allowed
> #  in function _ it contains a nested function with free variables"
Here is a (slightly) smaller version that may give you an idea:
     def myfunc(codetext):
         def setvar():
             d[0]=1
         exec codetext
### Causes the error
     def myfunc(codetext):
         def setvar():
             d[0]=1
         exec codetext in globals()
### Does not cause the error

The complaint is about the ambiguity of z's execution environment
(globals and locals), when there is code (setvar) which will reference
the local environment.  Notice that:
def myfunc(codetext):
  	def setvar(d):
  		d[0]=1
  	exec codetext
has no problem: setvar now only looks at its own code.  The question
is not what setvar looks at outside of itself (enclosing function or
globals), but whether it can (potentially) look at any of myfunc's
locals.  If setvar looks at nothing, it doesn't matter whether code
in z potentially creates a local in myfunc or not.

Hope this is enough for you to figure it out.  If not, ask a few more
questions.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep 15 21:01:41 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:01:41 -0500
Subject: object.attribute vs. object.getAttribute()
In-Reply-To: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com>
References: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030916010135.GS32270@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:29:10PM -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
> For the past 6-8 months, I've spent most of my time writing C++ and a 
> little bit of Java.  Both of these languages support and encourage the 
> use of private data and explicit accessor functions, i.e. instead of 
> writing x = foo.bar, you write x = foo.getBar().  Now that I'm back to 
> writing Python, I find myself in a quandry.
> 
> Historically, I've always avoided accessor functions and just reached 
> directly into objects to get the value of their attributes.  Since 
> Python doesn't have private data, there really isn't much advantage to 
> writing accessors, but somehow I'm now finding that it just feels wrong 
> not to.  I'm not sure if this feeling is just a C++/Java-ism that will 
> cure itself with time, or if perhaps it really does make sense and I 
> should change the way I code.

Write your python code naturally, using 'x = foo.bar'.  Derive all your
classes from 'object' (use new-style classes).  If you ever need
to do something "behind the scenes", you can switch to using "property",
and have a function automatically called on attribute read, write, and
delete---and it even documents itself:

    class C(object):
        def __init__(self):
            self._y = 0

        def get_x(self):
            return self._y * self._y
            
        def set_x(self, val):
            self._y = val
            
        def del_x(self):
            raise TypeError, "Cannot delete attribute"
            
        x = property(get_x, set_x, del_x,
            "A stupid attribute that squares itself"
            "... and won't go away")
        
>>> from roy import C
>>> c = C()
>>> c.x = 3
>>> print c.x
9
>>> del c.x
>>> del c.x
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/tmp/roy.py", line 12, in del_x
    raise TypeError, "Cannot delete attribute"
TypeError: Cannot delete attribute
>>> help(C)
[...]
 |   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 |  Properties defined here:
 |  
 |  x
 |      A stupid attribute that squares itself... and won't go away
[...]

Jeff




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 09:19:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:19:03 -0400
Subject: Meaning of MOP (was Re: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation)
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F685F47.E9F9F71E@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> >
> > According to Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com>:
> > > kasper graversen wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:36:44 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Erm, what's "MOP" mean?
> > > > what has all this talk to do with documentation of the MOP???
> > > Er, if you'll look back, you'll see that Anthony asked what MOP
> > > meant
> >
> > Meta Object Protocol.
> 
> Thanks, but one might say that this is what it spells, not what it _means_.
> 
> At this point, I'm sure google would help, if I felt a driving
> need to go and learn what it really means.

Annoyed that nobody seemed to be willing to actually define this (which
leads me to suspect that none of those involved in the thread actually
*know* what it means, other than to expand the acronym), I did a little
searching and found http://cliki.tunes.org/Meta-Object%20Protocol , which
at least attempts to define it.  It still doesn't describe it well enough
for someone to really understand the purpose, the value, the reason for
bothering to do such a thing, but it's better than the definitions offered
so far in this thread...

-Peter



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Sep 10 13:44:21 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:44:21 -0400
Subject: Threading troubles
In-Reply-To: <1063211947.3f5f53abceb92@www.stud.u-szeged.hu>; from Monda.Laszlo@stud.u-szeged.hu on Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 06:39:07PM +0200
References: <1063211947.3f5f53abceb92@www.stud.u-szeged.hu>
Message-ID: <20030910134421.A28550@cerberus.liberty>

* Monda.Laszlo at stud.u-szeged.hu (Monda.Laszlo at stud.u-szeged.hu) wrote:
<snip>
> 
> I want to control the execution of all threads from the main thread. I mean 
> stopping, continuing and terminating other threads. However as I've read in the 
> libc manual, there is no way to specify signal handlers for individual threads. 
> Actally I don't even know how could I signal any threads from Python at all. Any 
> workaround would be greatly appreciated.
> 

Not sure if it's possible.  Someone else on the list can correct me if I'm
wrong.  I did find the following post to c.l.p dated 2-19-2003:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=python+kill+thread&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=mailman.1045698656.1301.python-list%40python.org&rnum=6

This post includes a patch to the Python interpreter that will allow the
killing of a thread in Python.  Not sure if that gets you any closer to
your goal.  I would strongly recommend that you think about the problem you
are trying to solve and see if there is a better solution than
starting/stopping/resuming threads (if that's even possible).  A better
approach would be to break down the tasks that you want your threads to
accomplish into smaller pieces, possibly maintain state somewhere (either a
thread-safe container if it's going to be accessed by the threads or in a
plain-old container if the main thread is going to manage state) and have
your main thread delegate the activity.  A couple of excellent resources
for dealing with threads is the Python standard library Queue and there is
a recipe out on activestate that shows how to implement a thread pool
(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/203871).  I don't
know exactly what you are trying to do, so maybe starting/stopping/resuming
threads is the correct approach.  I've just found that, typically, breaking
things down a little more is a more manageable approach that is easier to
wrap your head around.


Jeremy Jones
 




From guillaume.alleon at club-internet.fr  Mon Sep  1 15:01:34 2003
From: guillaume.alleon at club-internet.fr (Guillaume ALLEON)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:01:34 +0200
Subject: monitoring resources
Message-ID: <3f53979a$0$20944$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Is there a way to monitor system resources (CPU, memory, ...) used by a
running python
script ?

Thanks

Guillaume





From theller at python.net  Fri Sep 26 11:54:32 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:54:32 +0200
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <bl1lc3$dn7$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <smmjh7ev.fsf@python.net>

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
>> disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where are they?
>
> Don't bother with site navigation, google "pep site:python.org".

Or use mozilla together with Mark Hammond'd Python sidebar.
This convinced me (among other things) to switch from IE to mozilla.

Thomas



From stacom at stacom-software.de  Tue Sep 16 04:54:15 2003
From: stacom at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:15 +0200
Subject: distributing a standalone python app. under Linux
In-Reply-To: <bk5r76$un7$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
References: <bk4bul$o92at$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de> <bk5r76$un7$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <bk6j3r$pnv48$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>

Nicola Mingotti schrieb:
> Alexander Eisenhuth <stacom at stacom-software.de> writes:
> 
> 
>>Hallo alltogether,
>>
>>under windows, the py2exe is first choice, but has anybody done it
>>under Linux ? My first try with Installer
>>
> 
> 
> most linux these days already have a python interpreter
> installed so i think the simplest (simplistic) method
> would be send the *.py or *.pyc file/s . 
> ( i follow this way when i give little apps to my friends )

Maybe youre right, but the applicatiobn runs under embedded linux, so the size 
of your applikation is another argument :-(

Alexander




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Sep  8 19:13:23 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:13:23 +1000
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD4D04@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> 
> > From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> > > From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> > > > From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> > > > > From: Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) 
> > > > > > From: Paul McNett [mailto:p at ulmcnett.com]
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321112547/qid=1
> > > > > > 
> > 063059237/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-8213749-9028058?v=glance&s=books
> 
> Hmm - that URL doesn't look too good now ...

Sorry - I sent too early ...

The purpose of this email is to show that you don't always have control over the format of something. I regularly receive emails quoted 4-5 levels deep when receiving field issue reports. I spend too much time reconstructing URLs ...

Tim Delaney




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 18:08:57 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:08:57 -0500
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
In-Reply-To: <200309061133.53521.scott_list@mischko.com>
References: <200309061133.53521.scott_list@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <16218.23289.361563.407292@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Scott> I need a tool that will go through a python module (ClientForm in
    Scott> this case) and allow me to specify a starting module to parse and
    Scott> tell me what all it uses.

This is not a trivial exercise to perform with Python because it is
dynamically typed.  In many cases you don't know the type of an object until
runtime.

Skip




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 16:32:07 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:32:07 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <yu99brt7igy8.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <9v59nv00v6jnfq5m507coditrok0e3h60q@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:43:11 GMT, Andrew Koenig <ark at acm.org> wrote:

>Stephen> I doubt the need for exclusive ranges in integer for loops. I
>Stephen> also doubt the need for switching between different range
>Stephen> systems (inclusive, exclusive, half-open). IMO there is more
>Stephen> confusion than anything down those routes.
>
>Really?  I would expect a common usage to be:
>
>        for 0 <= index < len(list):
>             do something with list[index]

We have half-open already. I was commenting on the need for supporting
several *different* schemes. Basically...

I don't see the need to support this case...

  for 0 < index < len(list) :  #  ie exclusive

And think that supporting one or the other of these two would be
sufficient...

  for 0 <= index < len(list) :  #  ie half-open
  for 0 <= index <= len(list) :  #  ie inclusive

And can I think of any languages that support a variety of cases?

C, C++, Java etc support both half-open and inclusive with a simple
change of the continuation condition operator.

The Pascal, Modula 2, Ada etc seem to stick with inclusive IIRC.

These 'limitations' don't really seem to cause a problem, though.


That said, with all this reverse iteration stuff we've been discussing
recently, there is a point to make. If half-open ranges are common,
then the 'reverse' half-open case may be useful too...

  for len(list) > index >= 0 :

It's basically a case of symmetry. It avoids the need for all those
'-1' corrections we've been stressing about just recently.


Well, who says I can't have second thoughts.

Still not keen on the syntax, though. And as exclusive ranges have no
apparent frequent use, and rewriting inclusive ranges as half-open
ranges is not really a problem, so really we only need to support the
two half-open cases. And that is really what all the backward
iteration stuff is about.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From ads at chead.org  Mon Sep 15 23:31:10 2003
From: ads at chead.org (ads)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:31:10 +0700
Subject: from clipper move to python
In-Reply-To: <3F668176.2020502@teksavvy.com>
References: <3812075547.20030915130057@chead.org>
 <6.0.0.22.0.20030915085400.041dd200@66.28.54.253>
 <801542245.20030916095806@chead.org> <3F668176.2020502@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <173526863.20030916103110@chead.org>

Thank you again,

and sorry for my "flamewar" word, I just hate because the system get
crashes all the time, and I must rebooted which take long time.

Regards,

:)

--------------- Replied message --------------
The Bat! mailer ver 1.53d
----------------------------------------------
Date    : Tuesday, September 16, 2003 
>From    : Graham Fawcett <fawcett at teksavvy.com>
To      : ads <ads at chead.org>
Subject : from clipper move to python
----------------------------------------------
ads wrote:

>Thank you for the respon,
>
>But right now I'm still not ready using linux, a lot of my client were
>using windows. Is someone know what should I use to create text
>console application like clipper using python in (stupid) windows?
>
>Thanks
>:)
>  
>

Stupid Windows? Now, now, let's not start a flamewar. ;-)

I've never used it, but I do see that there is a "Curses for Windows for 
Python" project at

http://flangy.com/dev/python/curses/

though it's an "alpha" stage project.

There's also "public domain curses" or pdcurses, available for Win32,

http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/pdcurses.htm

Presumably it would work with the Python curses module. But again, I've 
not used it.

In my opinion, you would probably have more success writing a GUI 
application using one of the "easy" app builders like PythonCard. It may 
be a new experience for you, but there will be more people who would be 
able to support you and answer your questions.

-- Graham




----------------------------------------------





From a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de  Tue Sep  2 11:17:41 2003
From: a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de (Andreas Neudecker)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 17:17:41 +0200
Subject: Docs on speeding up Python code?
Message-ID: <bj2can$17ea$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi.

I have seen some discussions going on about making Python code faster 
and several measures looked fairly 'esoteric' to me (i.e.: you need to 
know a lot of background things to even KNOW about these possibilities).

Is there anywhere a concise Howto, article, PEP, whatever that describes 
possible measures to make Python code faster (and probably 'cleaner', 
too)? And possibly in a way, that a beginner or intermediate Python user 
can understand? ;-)

If you know of any such docs, I would be happy if you could post some links.


Regards


Andreas





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Sep 16 23:11:44 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:11:44 +1000
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <3F67CDEF.3030202@sci.fi>
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org> <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net> <16231.25317.741455.556170@montanaro.dyndns.org> <3F67677E.9030408@sci.fi> <16231.28433.221154.160576@montanaro.dyndns.org> <3F67CDEF.3030202@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <20030917031144.GC7689@frobozz>

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 05:58:55AM +0300, Harri Pesonen wrote:
> But if the reference count is negative for allocated objects, then you 
> already have a bug. I mean that the count is never negative when the 
> application works correctly. The object is already deallocated when the 
> count reaches zero, so checking for negative counts is (usually) 
> superfluous. Python gets slightly faster if you just remove this check 
> (from release version).

Have you benchmarked whether removing this check makes any significant, or
even measurable, difference to the speed of a Python program?

I'm not convinced that the benefits of this outweigh the costs.

-Andrew.





From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Sep 28 11:31:37 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:31:37 -0400
Subject: Meta programming question
References: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com> <slrnbncfom.118.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
 <vnciijiteci947@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ufzih2ali.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Bruce Dickey <ceiesa at excite.com> writes:

> Ben Finney wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:18:15 -0600, Bruce Dickey wrote:
>> 
>>>I've read a number of the meta progamming articles. I have not found
>>>what I am looking for. I want to override assignments to variables
>>>which are in the module namespace (not object members -- no classes
>>>involved).  Can this be done?
>> AFAIK, no.  If it were possible, it would be very confusing.
>> What is it you're trying to achieve?  Perhaps a better alternative
>> can
>> be suggested that doesn't break expected behaviour.
>> 
> I'm investigating the use of Python as a grammar language. I'm trying
> to achive minimal required syntax/verbage.

Cool! You might take a look at http://spirit.sf.net for some ideas.
Python's a great language for metaprogramming because of its rich
syntax.  If you were willing to discourage left-recursion you might go
with something like:

  expression = term._('+').expression | term._('-').expression

On the other hand, when I had to do something like this I built my own
"python-like" syntax for the grammar rules and left the semantic
actions in pure Python, then ran the files through a simple
preprocessor.  It's just too ugly to write grammar rules in pure
python without overloaded whitespace.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From wweston2003 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 20 10:09:30 2003
From: wweston2003 at yahoo.com (wes weston)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:09:30 GMT
Subject: Help with parsing and matching a character
References: <mailman.1064001869.17521.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6C5D5B.1050606@yahoo.com>

Fernando,
   A look at some strings in p would help; but.
	
   for line in p:
      if line.find("/home/build90") > -1:
         doyourthing()

or I think this works:

      if "/home/build90" in line:
         doyourthing()


wes



Fernando Armenta wrote:

> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> I need some help matching a file to a path.  This is my code:
> 
>  
> 
> #  I open an expect script to log into a linux system and get the 
> version (6.5)
> 
>  
> 
> MGMTP_IP = x.x.x.x
> 
>  
> 
> p = os.popen('./remcmd.exp ' + MGMT_IP + ' ver ' + ' | grep Management > 
> ' + ' build ')
> 
>  
> 
> # I create a file call build with the version information
> 
>  
> 
> I want to match the build information to an specific path /home/build90 
> or /home/build91
> 
>  
> 
> How can I do that in Python?  Thanks for your help.
> 
>  
> 
> -F
> 
>  
> 




From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Sep  7 20:02:40 2003
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:02:40 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
In-Reply-To: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
Message-ID: <O4WdneLsXo65WsaiXTWJjw@giganews.com>

rt lange wrote:

> http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1
> 
> main page mockup:
> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main.html

The last time we redesigned our website, we've
got a significant amount of of hate mail. "You suck",
"Idiots", "Previously it was so great you had to destroy it",
"I've been a user for five years but I will
never come back to this site" etc... The odd thing is
that we thought that the site was significantly more
usable than before, after all the redesign was based on
an extensive usability testing.

(It was a pretty cool experiment, observing users
trough a one way mirror as they attempted  predefined
tasks, multiple cameras and microphones tracking
what users do, it is a great thing to do if you have
the chance)

It was pretty hard to digest this hate mail, it was as if these
people had zero respect for all the hard work we've put in,
in fact most email was actually very rude and rushed,
yet the only common ingredient in all of these emails was
the perceived infallibility of the authors themselves.

But guess what, usage became indeed a whole lot higher, users
were doing more searches and were submitting significantly
more ratings than before. We have accomplished everything
we wanted.

This and other anecdotal evidence led me to the conclusion that
redesingin a site in a way that will please old-timers is
impossible. Even more, one should be very careful in
gathering input from them since they might live
in a different world than most of the people one
wants to reach. Negative comments will always far
outnumber positive ones, for the simple reason that
it seems a lot harder to praise a work than putting
it down.

I would agree with most here that a more text based
site would be more suited, but let's try to remember that there
are people that worked hard on this, and may even
be right in what they are trying to accomplish.

cheers,

Istvan.




From joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de  Mon Sep  8 18:39:56 2003
From: joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=F6rg?= Maier)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:39:56 +0200
Subject: pexpect and escaping "
Message-ID: <bjj0fs$k1k8e$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de>

he guys,

i have a problem using python and pexpect module in windows with cygwin:
down a bash command like:
[1]
$ rsync --partial -cvaLe "/usr/bin/ssh -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -o
StrictHostKeyChecking=no" "user at server:path_to_file" "/cygdrive/c/"

it works perfect, but used in pexpect.spawn like :
[2]
child = pexpect.spawn(RSYNC_PATH, ['--partial', '--progress', '-cvaLe
"/usr/bin/ssh -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null -o
StrictHostKeyChecking=no"', '"' + myssl.user + '@' + myssl.server + ':' +
source + '" "' +  target + '"'], timeout=300)

i got child.before from pexpect that is like:
No such file or directory
Failed to exec "/usr/bin/ssh :

but without " around ssh and options rsync is about to think that -o
UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null is an rsync option and gives an error. every
masking with \ or  \\ or \\\ fails.

Any ideas howto tell pexpect just to pass the first string?
Thank you, J?rg


-- 
Hi
I am a signature virus. 
Please copy me to your .signature file to help me spread.



From kiko at async.com.br  Sat Sep 20 14:38:14 2003
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Reis)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 11:38:14 -0700
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <17d520f6.0309130701.222d09fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b0509bcd.0309201038.57c2ebca@posting.google.com>

ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com (Ubaidullah Nubar) wrote in message news:<17d520f6.0309130701.222d09fe at posting.google.com>...
> I will appreciate some more clarification regarding the GUI framework.
> From the wxPython web site, it looks very good but the two tools
> mentioned here
> for easing the development of GUI apps (mojoview and kiwi) are both
> based on GTK.

Well, I can speak of Kiwi at least, which I designed to help us write
large GUI applications in Python, here at Async Open Source.

Kiwi is different from most of the other frameworks you'll find in the
sense that it encourages you to move beyond the string manipulation
that's so common in GUI programming (read a string from an entry,
write a string to a label, etc etc). In Kiwi, you're expected to work
with objects holding data and low-level domain semantics (want to
display objects as a list? define the columns, and load the objects in
the list with one call; no more worrying about string/numeric/date
conversions).

Kiwi *really* cuts code length down; you could probably write a
phonebook application like you've asked initially in less than 40
lines, if using libglade.

The intention when writing Kiwi was to allow you to be truly object
oriented while coding; it's not a simple wrapper around a C/C++ API as
most of the other GUI libraries are (of course, Kiwi hijacks James'
PyGtK library to its own evil purpose)

> Are they fundamentally different or just a matter of style.
> 
> How easy to switch from one framework to another?

Kiwi is fundamentally different, though you can use as much as you
like (just the base view classes, the proxy, the widgets, etc).

I think you'll find that the more you use a framework, the harder it
is to switch (as with any library).

> Which framework supports internationalization better? Do they support
> Right-to-left layouts?

GTK+2 has this pretty much solved; pango is a very nice
implementation.

> Also, a comparison between Boa Constructor and Glade-2. I haven't seen
> either so am not sure if they are even comparable.

Glade, when associated with libglade, is a *great* way to write the
GUI. All Glade does is generate XML, which libglade reads at runtime
-- the rest is real code, version-controllable code that you can work
with in your preferred editor.

There's nothing that offers comparable reuse and long-term
productivity, IMHO, but others will differ.



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 09:31:11 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:31:11 GMT
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com> <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com> <7h3he359eda.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <zQCbb.100778$hE5.3550142@news1.tin.it>

Michael Hudson wrote:
   ...
> Fair enough.  I can see your point of view, I just don't (completely)
> agree with it :-) You could have something with similar syntax,
> keywords, etc to Python but semantics like C, and it would still be
> horrible (IMHO).

Tried pyrex?  It comes reasonably close to the "something" you
describe, and it ain't all that horrible (IMHO).


Alex




From maney at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 00:39:03 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:39:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
Message-ID: <bjecp7$rl5$1@wheel2.two14.net>

rt lange <whiteywidow at yahoo.com> wrote:
> came across this page searching feedster.
> dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
> but the mockups look very nice.

They look very nice if you're just taking in the view: they look like
crap if you want to actually read the content.  I've posted a more
detailed complaint there, but in brief "I say it's spinach..."

-- 
There's one way to find out if a man is honest: ask him;
if he says yes, you know he's crooked.  -- Twain



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 21:01:21 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 02:01:21 +0100
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:
[...]
> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:NO66b.30883$R32.926812 at news2.tin.it...
> > Michael Peuser wrote:
[...]
> > Moore's Law is working in favour of higher level languages even harder
> > than it's working in favour of free but highly efficient OS's.
> 
> There are two aspects:
> (1) More power for same price - this works in favour of 'complex software'
> (2) Same power for less money - this works in favor of 'cheap software'

And?  What is your point?  In both cases, the more bangs per buck, the
greater the economic advantage that accrues to Python when compared
with, say, C++.

[...]
> > > So it comes to the question: What does the common programmer know? This
> is
> >
> > Not necessarily.  If common programmers only knew machine language,
> > it would still be cheaper to use any available high-level language,
> > say COBOL, even if you needed to supply training for it (it's not
> > hard to teach COBOL to somebody who knows assembly, anyway -- the
> > reverse is harder).
> I am on your way; maybe they more probably would be trained for some "macro
> language". This is no 'paradigm change'. Most C++ programmers (I know what I
> say!) write C programs.

That's certainly true of switching to C++ from C, because C++ is a
hideous hairy beast of a language.  OO in Python is easy to learn by
comparison, because you don't have to think about all that other stuff
-- the C++ language details that are pressing because they're the
things stopping you from getting your work done in the short run.

Python is an order of magnitude easier to learn than C++, but it
brings really significant programmer-efficiency benefits.  As a
result, the argument about training simply doesn't stand up: the costs
are lower than the benefits even on a short timescale.


> > Similarly, using Python can lower costs even
> > if you factor in training costs (again, teaching Python to good
> > Cobol programmers is quite easy -- other higher-level languages may
> > not be _quite_ as cheap in these terms, admittedly, but still the
> > economics aren't _hugely_ different).
> 
> This argument is valid for:
> - OOP ("Reuse will reduce costs")
> - RAD
> - XP
> - Design-for-testing
> - Rigid configuration control
> - state any new thing you like
> 
> The fact that  a better world is possible does not mean you get it.

True (with the definite exception of 'state any new thing you like'!),
but I get the impression most places don't even try.  Obviously, OOP
*has* swept the industry, and presumably most commercial development
makes use of version control.


> Python is by no means a "perfect" alternative to  - lets say: DOT-NET and
> #  - the advantages are difficult to see for persons in power or - I
> mentiones the tool costs - are of minor relevance.

Well, there's our point of disagreement, I think.  Certainly, they're
difficult to see for persons in power -- that's mostly their fault,
though ;-)

Total costs are exactly the issue -- the contention is that use of
languages like Python really does have a significant impact on that.


> I should as well like to discuss your aspect of programmer's productivity.
> This is an important  factor. However all investigations show that
> programmer's productivity is an unmeasurable quantity.

How would an empirical investigation show such a thing?  Financial
constraints certainly make such studies rare, and the large number of
variables make them difficult, but it's far from impossible.
Small-scale studies have been done -- I remember at least one
(reference, anybody?), and it certainly supported the position that
C++ and C are, by a fat margin, less programmer-efficient than
higher-level languages: Perl, Python, etc.  Larger-scale studies would
simply cost more.

On top of this, I think it should be noted that science is far from
limited to such empirical studies.  In fact, that kind of study is
really the dregs of science, at the same sort of level as
epidemiology.  Epidemiology, in the long term, isn't a fraction as
useful as real understanding of the processes of life, which has as
much to do with theory as experiment.  In the absence of that, our
common-sense counterpart of that kind of theoretical understanding,
backed up by what little empirical research that exists so far, and
(just as importantly) by the anecdotal experience of people who've
suffered both Python and other languages, is actually the best
knowledge we have.  These common-sensy bits of knowledge aren't merely
matters of opinion, they're backed up by experience and sound argument
from people like Alex.  Far from perfect, but the best knowledge we
have is the knowledge we should be using!


> It certainly has to
> do with what the programmer likes to do. If he or she would like to program
> in Python everething would be fine. However most or today's programmers like
> to do what is called "mainstream" (circular reasoning, I know)
[...]

Yes, and that reasoning is only valid when you remember that it's
merely shorthand for "mainstream languages give us access to
well-supported library code, well-stocked labour market, etc. etc.".
When you take those things into account, Python still frequently comes
out on top.


John



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 17:21:46 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:21:46 -0500
Subject: why is this failing?
In-Reply-To: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <16224.59242.726053.25593@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Chris>      def write(self, value, row=None, col=None, len=None):

You overrode the len() builtin in your function signature  ^^^.

Skip




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Sep  7 16:01:11 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 13:01:11 -0700
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5B8E87.99452C9A@alcyone.com>

dan wrote:

> I was recently surprised, and quite shocked in fact, to find that
> Python treats negative indices into sequence types as if they were
> mod(length-of-sequence), at least up to -len(seq).

That is not the behavior of negative indices.  Negative indices mean
index from the end of the sequence.  So -1 means the _last_ element in
the list, -2 means the second to last element in the list, and so on. 
-n (for n = len(seq) is the first element in the list.

> This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.

It's mentioned prominently (and early) in all the tutorials and books on
Python I've read, and it's a very common and convenient convention, so
I'm not sure how far you could have gotten through learning Python and
never been exposed to it.

>  One of the big advantages of a high-level language such as Python is
> the ability to provide run-time bounds checking on array-type
> constructs.  To achieve this I will now have to subclass my objects
> and add it myself, which seems silly and will add significant
> overhead.  If you want this behavior, how hard is it to say a = b[x %
> len(b)] ??

That's simply not true.  Negative indices have similar bounds
requirements.  If you have a sequence of length n, then indices 0
through (n - 1) map to the elements of the sequence in order from left
to right, and indices -1 through -n map to the elements in order from
right to left.  Indices greater than n or less than -n generate
IndexErrors.  Bounds checking is always done, whether on positive or
negative indices.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Then you give me that Judas Kiss / Could you hurt me more than this
\__/  Lamya



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep 16 17:11:48 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:11:48 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net>
References: <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net> <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org> <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <20030916211148.GD29089@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 08:22:41PM +0300, Harri Pesonen wrote:
> It is more efficient to have one process and several threads, than 
> several processes each having one thread.

If it's easier to code "several processes each having one thread", then
I'll sure do it.  I've accepted a 2x-100x speed hit by using Python, so
if it's a 25% difference in efficiency, I won't sign up to wait for code
that doesn't exist yet.

Jeff




From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Sep 10 14:25:33 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 20:25:33 +0200
Subject: Same GUI in both CPython and Jython?
References: <bjni2a$i06$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns93F2CFCCAFE8Ccliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

York <yorklee70 at yahoo.com> wrote in
news:bjni2a$i06$1 at pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk: 

> Hi, everybody,
> 
> Is it possible to write GUI applicaitons (in pure python code) that
> can run Both in CPython and in Jython?

search for "anygui"
http://anygui.sourceforge.net/

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From tl_nntp at webcrumb.com  Tue Sep  2 10:03:52 2003
From: tl_nntp at webcrumb.com (Tom Lee)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:03:52 GMT
Subject: Overloading objects
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062501664.17381.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062424624.4041.python-list@python.org>	 <3f5469c4@news.comindico.com.au> <mailman.1062501664.17381.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f54a347@news.comindico.com.au>

Chad Netzer wrote:

> On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 02:58, Tom Lee wrote:
> 
>>Batista, Facundo wrote:
> 
> 
>>>I thought using defaults:
>>>
>>>def myMethod (self, name, age=None):
>>>        self.name = name
>>>        if age not None:
>>>                self.age = age
>>>
>>>
>>>but I'm concerned about the scalability of this.
> 
> 
> In general, it isn't a problem.  You really don't want methods with LOTS
> of arguments.  If you need variable numbers of arguments, where the
> default value system doesn't help you, just use *args, and do things
> positionally by counting the length of the argument list.
> 
> In Python, you can always use argument keywords when you call your
> method, so you don't need to remember the positions.  Learn to rely on
> keyword arguments, and your life with Python will be happier.
> 
> Also, you can use a dictionary to hold and pass your arguments around
> easily, and can have it automatically substitute the keyword values when
> you call the function (using **kwds).  If you need LOTS of arguments,
> use a dictionary or class, and pass THAT to your method.
> 
> 
>>>What's the most pythonic way to do this? Using something like *args or 
>>>**args?
> 
> 
> Yes.  It is easy and powerful once you see some examples.
> 
> 
> [Tom Lee]
> 
>>Scalability doesn't even come into this question - if you're really 
>>worried about performance, don't use Python.
> 
> 
> I assume the original poster was concerned with the scaling of the
> number of arguments, and it becoming unmanagable to use and maintain. 
> Not anything to do with speed (ie. a different kind of 'scaling')

Ah, cheers.

> 
> 
>>Anyway, you have two or three choices:
>>
>>1. Do it the way you're doing it.
> 
> yep.
> 
> 
>>2. Check parameter types at runtime using type() and the is keyword. e.g.
>>if type( somevar ) is int:
>>   self.do_int_stuff( somevar )
>>else:
>>   self.do_other_stuff( somevar )
> 
> 
> Rather than doing explicit type checks, it is somehat more robust to try
> to operate on the argument as if it were a valid type, and be prepared
> to handle exceptions.  Only coerce to another to another type when you
> need to:
> 
> try:
>     self.do_int_stuff( int( some_int_like_var ) )
> except TypeError:
>     [handle the other cases or error]
> 
> If you do want to have set types (as one often does), try to test based
> on behavior, since many objects can act similarly and interact together,
> without being the same type (and so type checking will always be overly
> restrictive and reduce the utility of your design)
> 
> Anyway, it is a tangential, and somewhat more advanced topic than this
> thread was started to cover.
> 

Along the same lines of the argument against isinstance right? Makes sense.

> 
>>3. Use similar names for similar methods. wxPython does this. e.g.
> 
> 
> yep.  Although that's not my favorite design.  Just makes it harder to
> learn things by introspection (requires more reference manual searching
> than using fewer methods with more option arguments, (IMO))  It's a
> tricky balance, sometimes.
> 

Yeah, but by the same token it makes your methods a little easier to 
read. I agree, however.




From eduardo.aguiar.developer at bol.com.br  Tue Sep  9 13:44:07 2003
From: eduardo.aguiar.developer at bol.com.br (eduardo.aguiar.developer)
Date: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 14:44:07 -0300
Subject: os.listdir
Message-ID: 	<HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br>

> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in message news:<bjk10v$ue0$04$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> > "Graham Fawcett" <fawcett at teksavvy.com>
> > > Hari wrote:
> >  
> > > >What I wanted to know was, is it guaranteed that between 2 calls
> > > >os.listdir any files added to the directory are appended and the
> > > >earlier order is maintained?
> > 
> > As others pinted out, this is jighly improbably, espacially under windows
> > 
> > 
> > > There's no need for such sequence guarantees, though. It's probably not
> > > the most efficient but here's a way to do it:
> > >
> > >     import os
> > >     import time
> > >
> > >     somedir = '/tmp'
> > >     snapshot1 = os.listdir(somedir)
> > >     time.sleep(...)
> > >     snapshot2 = os.listdir(somedir)
> > >
> > >     newfiles = [f for f in snapshot2 if not f in snapshot1]
> > >
> > > Pretty efficient, really: that's an O(n) comparison if I remember my
> > > Python internals correctly. Which I don't, so don't trust my word for
> > > it. ;-)
> > 
> > 
> > You are wright to mistrust it ;-)
> > Though 'f in list' looks harmless it itself is o(n) because there seems to
> > be a linear search (This is different whith 'f in dict' of course). So your
> > list comprehension is of o(n*n).
> > 
> > Kindly
> > Michael P
> 
> D'oh! Thanks, Michael, I *knew* I'd messed that up... 
> 
> I'll repeat "list searches linear, dict lookups constant..." a hundred
> times before bed tonight.

I think you got something to repeat
the night after also :-)

"list searches linear, dict lookups
log2(n)"

 
__________________________________________________________________________
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - ? gr?tis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br/






From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 14:41:15 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:41:15 +0100
Subject: Powerset
Message-ID: <8q1cmvg6t1mtcqf6nac7u1ff0i2ds89od8@4ax.com>

Has anybody written a good powerset function for that nice new set
datatype we now have?  I've found a powerset operator for Python lists
on the net, but that depends on lists being indexable which sets
aren't.  I suppose one answer is to iterate the set into a list, use
the powerset I've got, then iterate the answer back int a set...



From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 04:41:58 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:41:58 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <m3brty8vs2.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
Message-ID: <bjc6ln$plo$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Nick Vargish" <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:m3brty8vs2.fsf at tanelorn.bandersnatch.org...
> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:
>
> > So I should contribute another classical book:
> > Hofstadter: Goedel Escher Bach
>
> Good god, man! The guy's already going to be in the hospital. GEB is
> something that should be tackled at full health.
>
May be not! I had been in hospital last year and I remember how my thoughts
were spinning around. I think it is a good oportunity to dig into
self-referential matters where our brain  is not made for in its healthy
state ;-)

Kindly Michael P






From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep  2 14:50:19 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:50:19 -0400
Subject: Python REST framework?
Message-ID: <20030902145019.B18621@cerberus.liberty>

Does anyone know if there exists a Python REST (web services) framework?  I've googled and come up short.  I don't think it should be that hard to do if one doesn't exist (famous last words).  I guess one could subclass BaseHTTPServer and have specified things to do depending on the path and the method?


Jeremy Jones




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Sep  5 15:34:43 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:34:43 -0700
Subject: compiling python
In-Reply-To: <bj9hbg$8j5$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bj9hbg$8j5$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f58e550$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Birgit Rahm wrote:

> Hallo newsgroup,
> because so many people helped me, I hope for help onesmore.
> If I compile a python py file to a pyc file, will there the paths of the
> included files (or other paths) hardly be written to the pyc file and why.
> (Does not find this import file without this path anymore?)
> Which sense is behind there?
> TIA,Birgit

The model is that you import "modules" not files.  As a result,
where you find the module is kind of accidental.  For example,
when I am working on a largish program, I'll have several modules
in my 'current development' directory, get the application to work
with with those updated modules, and then check the modules back in
to the central directories.  If the .pyc files remebered locations,
I might accidentally be testing the accepted code, rather than my
new implementations.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From jennyw at dangerousideas.com  Tue Sep 23 16:21:45 2003
From: jennyw at dangerousideas.com (jennyw)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:21:45 -0700
Subject: Barcode generator for Python?
Message-ID: <20030923202144.GA8187@dangerousideas.com>

Does anyone know of a barcode generator for Python?  I'm looking to do
this on Windows. It would be nice to find something free, but that's not
necessary (so long as it's reasonable).  It doesn't have to be
Python-specific, either, so long as I can call it from Python.  I'd love
to hear any suggestions.

I've seen bookland.py, but the kind of barcodes I'm looking to generate 
are not ISBN barcodes.

Thanks!

Jen




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep  8 15:32:04 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 15:32:04 -0400
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1062997392.14538.python-list@python.org> <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1063046536.4714.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjilfk$1kg$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1063046536.4714.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>    >> http://tinyurl.com/mlcv
>
>    aahz> Many people, me included, won't follow tinyurl links; 
>
>Why?

Because I don't like going to random sites.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From richie at entrian.com  Fri Sep 19 12:23:17 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:23:17 +0100
Subject: pop3 email header classifier?
In-Reply-To: <GmZAOKA6Uya$Ew2E@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <GmZAOKA6Uya$Ew2E@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6cammvoibfes7scnan7kkorctoi55n4d57@4ax.com>

[Robin]
> Hi, I'm getting vast numbers of fake upgrade emails containing some kind
> of virus. My rather old client can be made to reject these based on some
> patterns in the subject line. They're nearly all based on the word
> 'New', 'Latest', 'Microsoft', 'Patch', 'Pack', ... etc etc.
> 
> Is there a python tool that can be made to delete these from my POP3
> mail box rather than let my client reject?

I have a webmail application that can be made to delete messages based on
regular expressions, at http://entrian.com/cgi-bin/pop3.py

I wrote it in response to a similar problem, whereby a spammer used my
address as his From address, and I received a couple of thousand bounce
messages a day.

You can set up regular expression filters on To, From and Subject, and set
it to either mark messages for deletion (so you get to review them before
deleting them) or delete them straight away (via the "I'm either brave or
stupid" checkbox, TM 8-)  You can save your filters for later use.

Take EXTREME CARE with this, particularly if you check the "I'm either
brave or stupid" box.  8-)  There is no way to recover a deleted message.
Don't sue me if it eats your hamster's emails.

You probably need something like (untested):

From: microsoft|ms\b
Subject: patch|latest|microsoft|update|upgrade|pack

There's no SSL version of this, so your POP3 account details will pass in
plain text over the internet (in theory my provider has a scheme whereby
you can access the site over SSL using their certificate, but it doesn't
work for some reason - if there's any interest I'll see whether I can make
it work).

(And no, I'm not going to harvest your POP3 account details.  They never
even hit the hard drive.)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From gillet at scripps.edu  Tue Sep 30 12:42:55 2003
From: gillet at scripps.edu (Alexandre Gillet)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:42:55 -0700
Subject: build a static python executable on linux?
In-Reply-To: <16249.36161.620488.759202@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <blacgq$2qe$1@news1.ucsd.edu>        <g7ehnv0r4okuds8jarvmqj6tnntlm0bvhs@4ax.com>        <blafsa$3i5$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <16249.36161.620488.759202@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F79B28F.9040005@scripps.edu>

Thanks for the hints.
But I think it will too much work to do now and not enough time. So I 
will probably build my interperter with a older version of glibc so I am 
sure it will run on all the linux platform and not only the one using 
glibc 2.3

Thanks
Alex

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Alex> I am able to compile a static interpreter (using -static
>     Alex> -static-libgcc) but I can not build the extensions correctly.
> 
> You effectively need to transport yourself back in time before distutils
> existed, and modify Modules/Setup (or more correctly, Modules/Setup.local)
> appropriately to define the build commands for all the extension modules you
> want to include in your interpreter.  It's a little tedious the first time
> (it will probably take a few iterations to get everything correct), but once
> you get the hang of it, it's easy to do.  Use the compile and link commands
> output by distutils to give yourself a head start on -I, -L and -l flags to
> include in your definitions.  Many of the commented out definitions are
> probably also close.
> 
> If you identify some modules with no commented out build definitions in the
> Setup file, please file a bug report on SourceForge.
> 
> Skip
> 
> 

-- 
   o Alexandre Gillet               email: gillet at scripps.edu
  /  The Scripps Research Institute,
o   Dept. Molecular Biology,  MB-5,
  \  10550  North Torrey Pines Road,
   o La Jolla,  CA 92037-1000,  USA.
  /  tel: (858) 784-2053
o   fax: (858) 784-2860








From dtolton at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 26 11:46:09 2003
From: dtolton at yahoo.com (Doug Tolton)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:09 GMT
Subject: PIL: Group4 Tiff Images
Message-ID: <mqm8nvsetc3vtddlt05p24jn6bevbnuvuh@4ax.com>

Does PIL still not have a Group4 Tiff decoder available?  I can load a
group4 Tiff just fine, but when I attempt to show it I get:

>>> im = Image.open('images/00000001.tif')
>>> im.show()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 1192, in
show
    _showxv(self, title, command)
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 1739, in
_showxv
    file = self._dump(format=format)
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 410, in
_dump
    self.load()
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFile.py", line 165, in
load
    d = Image._getdecoder(self.mode, d, a, self.decoderconfig)
  File "C:\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 309, in
_getdecoder
    raise IOError("decoder %s not available" % decoder_name)
IOError: decoder group4 not available

I have been able to load a group4 tif into the wxImage class, but I
get tag errors when attempting to do so.

Is there a better way of working with Group4 Tiffs?  I have a huge
volume of Tiffs and decompressing them isn't a good option for me.

Any ideas on the best way to tackle this problem?


Doug Tolton
(format t "~a@~a~a.~a" "dtolton" "ya" "hoo" "com")



From pfleonard at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 22 05:22:44 2003
From: pfleonard at hotmail.com (peter leonard)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:22:44 -0700
Subject: Begineer Question : Global string substitution with re
Message-ID: <Law11-F51JfEg897Bqg00010f1e@hotmail.com>

Hi,
This is a basic question but I can't figure out what is wron - even after 
reading the documentation. I have a script that normalizes strings. One of 
the steps is to convert all fractions too the tag 'fraction'. For example :

import re
line = "This is the first ratio, 170/37, and this is the second  170/37 "


def normalise(text):

    #Tag fractions
    fraction = r'(\s+\d+\/\d+\s+)'
    regfr = re.compile(fraction)
    text = regfr.sub(" |fraction| ",text)

    #Remove punctuation
    punc = r'\,'
    regpunc = re.compile(punc)
    text = regpunc.sub("",text)

    return text

print line,"\n"
print normalise(line),"\n"


The output from this script is :

This is the first ratio, 170/37, and this is the second  170/37

This is the first ratio 170/37 and this is the second |fraction|


I can't understand why only one of the fractions gets substituted. The 
documentation for sub states that the default argument for sub is 0 which 
means replace all occurences. The output of my script should be :

This is the first ratio |fraction| and this is the second |fraction|


Any help appreciated.

Peter

_________________________________________________________________
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From secun at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 08:41:24 2003
From: secun at yahoo.com (Sector Unknown)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 05:41:24 -0700
Subject: Help with dialog box
Message-ID: <f95d88bd.0309250441.492b95f4@posting.google.com>

I've written a Python script that runs a MS Windows program using popen. 
However, at the end of the Windows program, a dialog box appears and 
asks for the user to click on OK. 

Is there a way to have Python set focus on the dialog box and click OK 
so my script can continue?

Does anyone have an example?



From farmenta at pillardata.com  Fri Sep 19 16:04:18 2003
From: farmenta at pillardata.com (Fernando Armenta)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:04:18 -0700
Subject: Help with parsing and matching a character 
Message-ID: <36504F2E352484458C5D574719DC8372BAC617@caex01.trans.corp>

Hello,

 

I need some help matching a file to a path.  This is my code:

 

#  I open an expect script to log into a linux system and get the
version (6.5) 

 

MGMTP_IP = x.x.x.x

 

p = os.popen('./remcmd.exp ' + MGMT_IP + ' ver ' + ' | grep Management >
' + ' build ')

 

# I create a file call build with the version information 

 

I want to match the build information to an specific path /home/build90
or /home/build91

 

How can I do that in Python?  Thanks for your help.

 

-F

 

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From google at andreweland.org  Fri Sep  5 07:20:59 2003
From: google at andreweland.org (Andrew Eland)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 04:20:59 -0700
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <6817af2.0309050320.49f262e@posting.google.com>

"Sophie All?on" <alleon at club-internet.fr> wrote in message news:<3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7 at news.club-internet.fr>...

> for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
> string while I want it
> to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?

Unlike perl, the keys used for a Python dictionary can be arbitary
objects. You're not forced to use strings. If you represent edges as a
tuple of the form (startPoint,endPoint), you can do the following:

>>> start=(1,1)
>>> end=(2,2)
>>> edges={}
>>> edges[(start,end)]=1
>>> if (start,end) in edges:
...     print "Edge exists"
...
Edge exists

If you're using Python 2.3, you can use the new sets module, which
will give you an object repesenting a set, which is a little neater
than just using a dictionary.

 -- Andrew (http://www.andreweland.org)



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 09:32:43 2003
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:32:43 +0100
Subject: Mutable strings
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D014B294E@intrepid>

> From:	Alex Martelli [SMTP:aleax at aleax.it]
> Hans-Joachim Widmaier wrote:
> 
> > I don't think strings are immutable because they ought to be that way
> > (e.g. some CS guru teaches that "mutable strings are the root of all
> > evil"). They're immutable because they allow them to be used as
> > dictionary keys. And it was found that this doesn't affect the
> > usefulness of the language too much.
> 
> Wrong.  Consider Java, even back from the very first version: it had
> no dictionaries on which string might be keys, yet it still decided
> to make its strings immutable.  This should make it obvious that the
> interest of using keys as dict keys cannot possibly be the sole
> motivation for the decision to make strings immutable in a language.
> Rather, the deeper motivation is connected to wanting strings to be
> ATOMIC, ELEMENTARY types, just like numbers; and to lots of useful
> practical returns of that choice.  All you lose is the "ability" to
> "confuse" (type-pun) between strings and arrays of bytes in many
> situations, but that's an ability best lost in many cases.  It's not
> an issue of "evil" -- a close-to-the-hardware low-level language
> like C has excellent reasons to choose a different, close-to-HW
> semantics -- but in a higher-level language I think Python's and
> Java's choice to have strings immutable works better than (e.g.)
> Perl's and Ruby's to have them mutable.
 
I came across a good write up of this principle today -
<http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ImmutableValue>.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
--LongSig





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From kmkstyle at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 07:41:03 2003
From: kmkstyle at hotmail.com (Kathleen Kudzma)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:41:03 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <Law15-F26k5s6yonjH50001492d@hotmail.com>

Does anyone know how to embed a Pygame window in a Tkinter widget?

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From mwh at python.net  Thu Sep 25 07:23:40 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:23:40 GMT
Subject: Memory profiling
References: <svlisnh3m7q.fsf@dresden.uio.no>
Message-ID: <7h34qz12k1d.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Rune Froysa <rune.froysa at usit.uio.no> writes:

> Does Python provide any tools that can help in determining where the
> memory is used?

*Memory*, no.  Especially in a debug build, there are tools for
finding out where the objects are, though.

> Ideally, I would like to see a tool that can list all objects by
> memory-usage, but any tool that can return the number of bytes used
> by an arbitrary object would be of great help.  Even something that
> could find all allocated dicts&lists and return their size+name
> would help.

In a debug build, look at sys.getobjects.  In a recent release build,
look at gc.get_objects.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  <arigo> something happens, what I'm not exactly sure.
                                                 -- PyPy debugging fun



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Tue Sep 23 15:08:04 2003
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:08:04 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
In-Reply-To: <mgs0nvko9fm2e9kcml3bv26h7q78gv5ks8@4ax.com>
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <m2eky8dtny.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <GhQbb.196$eB.92@twister.southeast.rr.com> <hTZbb.2427$gi2.1120@fed1read01> <mgs0nvko9fm2e9kcml3bv26h7q78gv5ks8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pS0cb.2675$gi2.767@fed1read01>

Stephen Horne wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:44:13 -0700, Tim Hochberg
> <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>FWIW, Psyco recognizes this structure and removes the overhead 
>>associated with it.
> 
> 
> I went looking for Psyco yesterday, and all I could find was broken
> links. Was sourceforge just having bad day, or is there a new site
> that hasn't made it into Google yet?


Probably the former. I just checked at http://psyco.sourceforge.net/ and 
everything seemed to be working.

-tim




From sheershion at mailexpire.com  Wed Sep 10 17:47:36 2003
From: sheershion at mailexpire.com (Robert Amesz)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:47:36 -0000
Subject: Python reading output from a running, external process
References: <uoextkm24.fsf@mail.afm.dtu.dk> <mailman.1063189097.10824.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93F2F2C563818rcamesz@amesz.demon.nl>

Matt Goodall wrote:

> Basically, os.popen() would allow you to execute the simulation
> tool and have its output channelled back to the GUI application
> through a file-like object.
> 
> I don't know wx much but it is generally possible to attach a file
> (i.e. the file returned by popen) to the GUI's event queue so that
> one of your event handlers is called when there is new output from
> the simulation tool. It should be easy enough to parse that to
> update the UI. 


In my experience it is *not* a good idea to use popen() in wxPython 
apps, at least not under Windows: there seems to be some buffering 
going on in popen(), totally ruining any sense of concurrency. Also, 
reading the streams returned by popen() block, something to be avoided 
at all costs in a GUI program. Finally, the process exit code is lost 
when using popen().

Fortunately, in wxPython you can use a wxProcess, which doesn't buffer 
or block, and can be polled using timer or idle events. There's an 
example of how to use it in the wxPython demo.


Robert Amesz



From stuart at bmsi.com  Mon Sep 22 20:54:24 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:54:24 -0400
Subject: Mandrake Linux 9: Why isn't bsddb working?
References: <bka45f$q6rg1$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063820907.15026.python-list@python.org> <bkb385$r8u2n$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063895247.17694.python-list@python.org> <bkfug2$1dovr$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <CRMbb.7678$sp2.1768@lakeread04>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:04:15 -0400, Dfenestr8 wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:26:49 +0000, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
> 
>>     >> What might I have done wrong, and/or what should I do to fix it?
>> 
>>     Skip> You probably don't have the necessary -devel RPM installed.
>> 
>>     >> That might have been true while I was using the rpm package.
>> 
>>     >> But currently I'm using the source package Python-2.3.tgz.
>> 
>> Doesn't matter.  The _bsddb module can't be built if the relevant
>> header files and libraries are not in place.
>> 
>> Skip
> 
> The rpm -devel package just won't install unless it detects I have
> python itself installed as an rpm. And I kind of like the version of
> IDLE that comes with Python 2.3, so I'd rather keep it. (Also, I'm not
> completely sure how to uninstall it. "make uninstall" doesn't work).

Skip is talking about the devel RPMs for bsddb.  For instance, do you
have db3-devel installed?  Or db4-devel?  On RedHat 7, the default bsd db
is db3-3.2.9.  You would need db3-devel installed to get the bsddb module
built.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.



From bblancett at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 17:33:05 2003
From: bblancett at hotmail.com (Bill)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 14:33:05 -0700
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com> <4fd6e92.0309190518.3b226735@posting.google.com> <bkf0nd$10dm0$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4fd6e92.0309191333.20114e3@posting.google.com>

Karl Scalet <news at yebu.de> wrote in message news:<bkf0nd$10dm0$1 at ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Bill wrote:
> 
> > [...]
> > path = 'C:\\YourPath\\YourFile.txt'
> > filename = 'YourFile.txt'
> 
> is this correct? Shouldn't path contain the directory only?
> Otherwise what's the content of YourFile.txt then.
> 
> Karl

Well I believe you need the file as well b/c the mimetypes function
checks the extension to see what type of file it is. I am sure you can
modify it to be more efficient. But it works as is.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep 24 13:12:34 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:12:34 -0600
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
In-Reply-To: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030924111106.02790b58@66.28.54.253>

At 06:30 PM 9/23/2003, you wrote:

>Here is a discussion draft of a potential PEP.
>The ideas grew out of the discussion on pep-284.
>Comments are invited.  Dart throwing is optional.
>
>The discussion so far has focused on how to modify the operand of for x in.
>
>There is another viewpoint: consider that we are modifying the behavior of 
>for x in
>
>In APL we often modify the behavior of a primitive operator by adding 
>something to the operator itself. For example
>+/A means apply + along the last last dimension of the array A. (e.g. sum 
>the elements in each row of the matrix A)
>To sum along the columns change the expression to =+/[1]A where the index 
>modifies the / operator.
>
>Could this open the door to some fundamentally new Python syntax that 
>would support the modification of keyword behavior? e.g.:
>
>for x in[-1] list:
>for[-1] x in list:
>for x in[-1] list:for x in[-1] list:
>for.reverse x in list:
>for x out list:
>rof x in list:
>
>Let's brainstorm?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Sep 12 00:01:37 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:01:37 -0400
Subject: getting ttf font/family name; fontTools?
In-Reply-To: <m2pti6yfab.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <m2ad9bcbhy.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>	<3F60F508.8030300@rogers.com> <m2pti6yfab.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <3F614521.7060302@rogers.com>

John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>>"Mike" == Mike C Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
<Mike blathers>

>This looks useful -- thanks.  There apparently is an error in
>family_query.py
>  
>
Hmm, yes, bit-rot due to the fact that I only ever use it from within 
OpenGLContext (which does it's own setup of a registry object).

        new,failed = registry.scan( printErrors = 1, force = 0)

is how it should read instead of:

        new,failed = registry.scan( directories, printErrors = 1, force = 0)

I've checked the change into CVS. That'll teach me to open my big mouth 
:) . 

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 21 12:08:20 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:08:20 +0100
Subject: Server-side programming
References: <HAMab.1175$1l5.436@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <3F6DCCF4.9C1FBCC5@hotmail.com>

Timo Virkkala wrote:
> I'm creating a system with Python CGIs, that connect to a database. I'm
> wondering about input validation. Of course I will check the length of
> the passed parameters, to (hopefully) prevent any DOS attacks. What else
> do I need to check? Do I need to remove any SQL from the inputs?
> Anything else I might have overlooked?

You might not need to remove SQL from your field values. Doing so
would probably be a non-trivial string parsing exercise.

Most "SQL injection" attacks would be where a cracker hopes that you
are going to embed the contents of "username" and "password" fields
right into a string containing an SQL query, like so

mySQLString = """
select  *
from    users
where   uname = "%s" and password = "%s"
""" % (username, password)

If the query returns a non-zero number of rows, then that
username/password combination is deemed to be valid.

The problem comes when the cracker deliberately subverts the content
of the fields, supplying values like these, for example

username='alan'
password='" or 0=0 or password="'

Which when embedded into the SQL query string gives the following
final SQL query:

select  *
from    users
where   uname = "alan" and password = "" or 0=0 or password=""

Which will return at least 1 row, assuming that "alan" is a valid
username.

Now, trying to parse the syntax of the password field, looking for SQL
keywords such as "or", could be complex: there are quite a few
possible ways in which the query can be textually subverted.

AFAIK, the most effective way to prevent such attacks is to disable
any quote characters that may be present in the password, so that they
are treated as a part of the password string, not as delimiters in the
SQL query string. For example

import re
password = re.escape(password)

Which for the values given above would now give an SQL query of

select  *
from    users
where   uname = "alan" and password = "\"\ or\ 0\=0\ or\ password\=\""

Does anyone know of a more effective approach to preventing SQL
injection attacks?

Another potential attack is the "Cross Site Scripting (XSS) Attack",
whereby the attacker inserts javascript into a field value, which is
then embedded into the HTML transmitted by a web app to another user,
for example as a post in a message board.

This hostile javascript can do any number of nasty things to users
browsers including stealing cookies, or url-rewritten session IDs, so
that the innocent users login session can be hijacked and abused. 

Here is an article about XSS attacks.

http://www.cgisecurity.net/articles/xss-faq.shtml

AFAIK, the most effective solution to preventing XSS attacks is to ban
HTML/tags/javascript from being inserted into text strings that will
be displayed as part of a HTML page. This could be done by

1. Parsing the string as HTML, and stripping out <script> tags.
2. Escaping (in the HTML sense) all field inputs, to disable markup
special characters such as "<", ">", etc.

Does anyone know of other potential textual attacks against web pages,
input forms and field values?

It would be really nice to have a central, python focussed, repository
of these attack techniques, and how they can be prevented with python
code. Does anyone know of such a page?

If we get enough information from this thread, I might start up a page
about the subject.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 00:35:20 2003
From: ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com (Ubaidullah Nubar)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 21:35:20 -0700
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <17d520f6.0309130701.222d09fe@posting.google.com> <b8786dc4.0309151332.71907f18@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <17d520f6.0309152035.7e65635b@posting.google.com>

> > I will appreciate some more clarification regarding the GUI framework.
> > From the wxPython web site, it looks very good but the two tools
> > mentioned here
> > for easing the development of GUI apps (mojoview and kiwi) are both
> > based on GTK.
> > 
> > Are they fundamentally different or just a matter of style.
> 
> Well, pyGTK and wxPython are Python-language wrappers or bindings
> around two separate GUI toolkits, GTK+ and wxWindows.  As such, the
> code details will wind up being different.  I suspect, though I have
> no experience with pyGTK, that differences will be mostly syntactic
> and that overall coding thought processes will be mostly similar.  Can
> anyone else confirm/deny?

If they both have a similar style, then that would be good as it will
be easy to convert from one to the other easily. Otherwise, one would
have to be extra-cautious before selecting the framework for large
projects.


> > Which framework supports internationalization better? Do they support
> > Right-to-left layouts?
> 
> I know that wxPython relies on wxWindow's internationalization
> capabilities, which seem to be centered around gettext and friends.  I
> do not see anything in the documentation that suggests support for
> bidirectional font support.  Seeing as how gettext and GTK+ are both
> GNU apps, it should come as no surprise that GTK+ also uses gettext.

The article that you mentioned below states that GTK+ has bidrectional
support. Doesn't mention anything similar for wxPython. But there are
references in wxWindows docs about right-to-left. Anybody knows how it
compares to GTK+?


> > Is there any site that lists the differences/capabilities of each
> > framework?
> 
> There is a comparison of wxWindows, Qt, GTK+, FOX and fltk at:
> http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/928/

Thanks for the link. It is quite informative.

> > Also, a comparison between Boa Constructor and Glade-2. I haven't seen
> > either so am not sure if they are even comparable.
> 
> Boa-Constructor is a fully-fledged IDE that includes a code editor,
> debugging, and a GUI designer tool.  Boa is based around wxPython, and
> also includes substantial support for development for the Zope
> application server.  Boa-Constructor is not yet fully mature, but
> shows much promise.
> 
> Glade is a GUI designer only, that generates XML resource files used
> by GTK+ to generate the GUI interface.  As such, it is not directly
> comparable with Boa.  PyGTK has support for working with such resource
> files.
> 
> Interestingly enough, wxGlade is a more-or-less copy of Glade, but for
> use with wxPython rather than GTK+, and it generates "cleaner" code
> than Boa-Constructor.

I have been working through some wxPython examples. When external
resources like icons or images are used on a control, is there a way
to embed it into the freezed executable?

Thanks & Regards,
Ubaidullah Nubar.



From avadmin at cds.unina.it  Fri Sep  5 13:02:04 2003
From: avadmin at cds.unina.it (avadmin at cds.unina.it)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:02:04 CEST
Subject: Inflex scan report [0905130258806]
Message-ID: <200309051102.h85B25Pi059009@cds.unina.it>

Administrator Email Reply Address: avadmin
Email sent to:  zelati at cds.unina.it
Inflex ID: 0905130258806
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Using IDE file bdoorrq.ide
Using IDE file pandem-b.ide
Using IDE file agobot-q.ide
Using IDE file tzet-a.ide
Using IDE file blastere.ide
Using IDE file nugosh-a.ide
Using IDE file yaha-t.ide
Using IDE file lovgatep.ide
Using IDE file blasterf.ide
Using IDE file w32cailb.ide
Using IDE file quatersa.ide
Using IDE file phone-b.ide
Using IDE file jsurf-a.ide
Using IDE file sbf-dam.ide

Quick Sweeping

00:01 _headers_
00:01 textfile0
00:01 textfile1
00:01 your_document.pif
>>> Virus 'W32/Sobig-F' found in file /usr/local/inflex/tmp/inf_0905130258806/unpacked/your_document.pif
00:01 textfile2        
               
5 files swept in 1 second.
1 virus was discovered.
1 file out of 5 was infected.
Please send infected samples to Sophos for analysis.
For advice consult www.sophos.com, email support at sophos.com
or telephone +44 1235 559933
End of Sweep.

File NAME/TYPE Scan Results


0905130258806  from:python-list at python.org  to: zelati at cds.unina.itType scanning off.
Name scanning off.
Text scanning off.

END OF MESSAGE.

End.
.




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 22 18:58:07 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:58:07 +0200
Subject: string.rstrip
References: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bknuru$qtm$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hank wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have this problem with string.rstrip
> 
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import string
>>>> mystr = "test.txt"
>>>> mystr = string.rstrip(mystr, ".txt")
>>>> print mystr
> tes
> 
> The last 't' was stripped. Is this fixed or documented anywhere? it
> works for other cases, but this one seems to give me a weird result.

There are several issues with your code. The preferred way to invoke
rstrip() is now as a method, so

>>> mystr = "test.txt"
>>> mystr.rstrip(".txt")
'tes'

Why's that? Think of the argument of rstrip() as a character set rather than
a string; characters are removed from the end of mystr as long as they are
in [".", "t", "x"].

To remove an arbitrary suffix you can write your own function:

>>> def removeSuffix(s, suffix):
...     if s.endswith(suffix):
...             return s[:-len(suffix)]
...     return s
...
>>> removeSuffix(mystr, ".txt")
'test'

However, I guess that what you really want is to remove the filename
extension:

>>> import os
>>> os.path.splitext(mystr)
('test', '.txt')

>>> os.path.splitext(mystr)[0]
'test'

This returns both parts of the string and thus gives you the chance to check
if the extension is really what you expected.

One caveat: only the last extension is cut off the filename.

>>> os.path.splitext("test.tar.gz")
('test.tar', '.gz')


Peter



From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Thu Sep 25 02:21:39 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:21:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <kgj3nvgn6cnp9u3f66cb2vtok697lgjt89@4ax.com> <3f721b0c-fce176ad-f4e1-4bdc-8527-cc05ef24ad42@news.szn.dk> <nj84nvkuv0e4uivtqfhpe3nvj9vo7mcvaf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f728973-5a9b6c4e-61e1-4b6a-8e31-01dd6aafec56@news.szn.dk>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:

> Thus "your next spawn" seems not relevant.

I beg to differ.  By "your next spawn" I'm not talking about spawning
from the current process.  It could be a job on a nother terminal, a
cron job etc.

>> killing blindly is bad programming practice.
>
> Yes, it is; I have used kill(pid,0) in the past, aware that it's a
> quick and dirty solution.  Semaphores are much more safe in such a
> situation.

I fully agree.


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From bblancett at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 09:09:57 2003
From: bblancett at hotmail.com (Bill)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 06:09:57 -0700
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com> <KI1ab.25228$dy5.1507439@phobos.telenet-ops.be> <4fd6e92.0309180512.c860a31@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063891936.20380.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4fd6e92.0309190509.59846327@posting.google.com>

Thanks Richie this corrected my error. I appreciate it.

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063891936.20380.python-list at python.org>...
> [Bill]
> > IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'C:\\Email\test.txt'
>                                                    ^^     ^
> 
> You've missed a backslash somewhere.  Your filename looks like
> C:\Email<tab>est.txt.  You should always do one of the following:
> 
>  o Remember to double your backslashes: "C:\\Email\\test.txt"
>  o Use raw strings for pathnames: r"C:\Email\test.txt"
>  o Use forward slashes (which are fine on Windows): "C:/Email/test.txt"



From cygwin-help at cygwin.com  Fri Sep  5 12:45:10 2003
From: cygwin-help at cygwin.com (cygwin-help at cygwin.com)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 16:45:10 -0000
Subject: ezmlm response
Message-ID: <1062780310.22397.ezmlm@cygwin.com>

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From jim-usenet at jimdabell.com  Wed Sep  3 08:40:48 2003
From: jim-usenet at jimdabell.com (Jim Dabell)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:40:48 +0100
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vqOdnRuMAaBofMiiRVn-hg@giganews.com>

post400 wrote:

> apparently there is a very famous book that every developer should
> read: Code complete by Steve McConnell !
> 
> Is there an electronic version freely downloadable ?

Not that I've heard.


> After all, the book was released in 1993 , it should have been public
> domain by now !

Works don't pass into the public domain for a hell of a lot longer than a
single decade, although I agree that for fast-moving industries like this,
copyright terms should be closer to ten years than 75, or whatever the
current terms are.


> It would be nice to have a try before !

Use a library.


> 50? is not exactly cheap !

Your newsreader is claiming to encode articles as ISO-8859-1, although it
appears it's actually sending out cp1250 (I'm guessing that was meant to be
a Euro sign).


> What do you think ? Is it worth the money or not ?

Well people value money differently.  A hard-up student might not think so,
but a professional programmer might.  In my opinion, ?20 [1] for this book,
compared with the prices of other books in the field, is very good value. 
If it's too much, buy it second-hand.  It's a good book, and although
plenty of it is just common sense, it's the type of common sense that's
easy to miss :)

[1] I bought mine new for about ?20 a couple of years ago, Amazon UK has it
for ?19.72 new, or ?13.75 used.

<URL:http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1556154844/>


-- 
Jim Dabell




From basile-news at starynkevitch.net  Tue Sep  2 10:42:49 2003
From: basile-news at starynkevitch.net (Basile STARYNKEVITCH)
Date: 02 Sep 2003 16:42:49 +0200
Subject: ANN: Guis-1.3 a GTK2 widget server (scriptable in Python & Ruby)
Message-ID: <q5r3cffxndi.fsf@hector.lesours>

Dear All,


It is my pleasure to announce the release 1.3 of Guis, which is a
programmable graphical user interface widget "server".

Guis communicate with a (one) client application thru textual
communication channels; input requests (from application to guis) are
Python (or Ruby) instructions (using the PyGTK binding of GTK2 to
Python or the ruby-gnome2 binding of GTK2 to Ruby) and output replies
(or events) are arbitrary textual lines from Guis to application (sent
by Python or Ruby script). There is a possibility to trace the
exchanges between application & guis (in a graphical window)


Guis is therefore a programmable (in Python or in Ruby) GTK2 widget
server.

The GTK related code of Guis can easily be ported to any embeddable
scripting language offering a GTK2 binding.

Guis is opensource, under GNU General Public License, developped under
Linux.

See http://www.starynkevitch.net/Basile/guisdoc.html for documentation
on Guis, and also http://freshmeat.net/projects/guis and download
source code (with demo) from
http://www.starynkevitch.net/Basile/guis-1.3.tar.gz (a 482780 byte
gzipped tar file of md5sum 70993058c397b04ff9b3030f0eda475c)

There are actually 2 binaries: pyguis is Guis for Python2.2 and ruguis
is Guis for Ruby1.8

Guis is developed under Linux and should run on most Posix systems
with GTK2.

Comments, suggestions and patches are welcome!

Changes to this release: minor bugfixes, and (mostly) an experimental
Ruby version.

-- 

Basile STARYNKEVITCH         http://starynkevitch.net/Basile/ 
email: basile<at>starynkevitch<dot>net 
aliases: basile<at>tunes<dot>org = bstarynk<at>nerim<dot>net
8, rue de la Fa?encerie, 92340 Bourg La Reine, France



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 16:28:37 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:28:37 -0400
Subject: Memory allocation
References: <mailman.1064256510.29212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6F5B75.B55610FA@engcorp.com>

"Batista, Facundo" wrote:
> 
> #- Can you provide more background on the specific problem you need
> #- to solve, or are you looking for a very general solution?  In
> #- other words, do you just need to know how much memory a list, or
> #- an integer uses up, or do you think you need a general-purpose
> #- function which works with any object of any type.
> 
> It's a very general question for a very particular problem, :)
> 
> My particular problem is that I want to store in memory a pickled object,
> and then want to know if that object changed.

Knowing how much memory the object consumes will not help you with
that, at least in general.  The object could easily be changed in a
dozen ways yet still consume the same amount of memory.

> Don't know if there's a better solution for this particular problem
> (suggestions welcomed)

Can't the object just track changes to itself?  This is a fairly 
common solution to the general problem you describe.  Resorting to
things like checking memory consumption is not likely the best way
to approach this.

> but it still remains a general question: the other
> day I wanted to know "how much more expensive in memory is a list than a
> tuple for a given content".

I believe the answer was given, but in case it wasn't: they take 
effectively the same amount of memory, as each is basically a series
of pointers to other objects.

-Peter



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Sep 17 17:48:32 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:48:32 -0500
Subject: needs help in how to translate &#8820; and &#8821;
In-Reply-To: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85FCEB35@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85FCEB35@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <20030917214830.GC12024@unpythonic.net>

&#NNNN; is an HTML "numeric character reference".  See
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/charset.html#h-5.3.1

You can use Python to find the name of a particular Unicode character:
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.name(unichr(8820))
'NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR EQUIVALENT TO'

On my terminal, I can display that character this way:
>>> print unichr(8820).encode("utf-8")
?
(I think that's a less-than symbol, "<" above an equivalent symbol (~)
with a vertical bar through it, but I really can't tell in this font...)

Jeff




From nospam at here.com  Thu Sep 11 13:46:24 2003
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:46:24 +0100
Subject: Learning Python, 2'nd Edition, O'Reilly
References: <8e6e8e5d.0309101814.393a8ed0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1063302161.35733.0@echo.uk.clara.net>

"Ron Stephens" <rdsteph at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8e6e8e5d.0309101814.393a8ed0 at posting.google.com...
> Does anyone know when this is due to be released? I am assuming that
> this version will cover Python 2.3, and be the first book to fully do
> so.
>
> Ron Stephens

According to Amazon, it should be available 1st October (I don't know how
reliable their predictions normally are, though).






From riquito at riquito.matrix  Thu Sep 25 13:04:52 2003
From: riquito at riquito.matrix (Riccardo Attilio Galli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:04:52 +0200
Subject: send email
References: <D44DA9C0-EF06-11D7-8841-000393C2D67E@colorstudy.com> <mailman.1064486793.21084.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.25.13.51.03.520871@riquito.matrix> <mailman.1064503536.19136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.25.17.04.49.959704@riquito.matrix>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:25:18 +0100, Peter Nuttall wrote:

> On Thursday 25 Sep 2003 2:51 pm, Riccardo Attilio Galli wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:46:16 +0100, Peter Nuttall wrote:
>> > if anyone has any comments I would like to see them.
> <snip>
>>
>> peter, your program write 'e-mail' absolutely not rfc2822 compliant.
> <snip>

> Yeah, I thought It was not compliant. Thanks for the weblink. I have
> changed it based on the standard and what you said, but I have a few
> questions:
> 
> 1. message-ID: I have written an few lines of code that have the date
> and time on one side of a @ and the computer's name of the other. is
> that OK?

I'm in a hurry, so I can't loock at rfc. I think it's too simple. It
should be something really hard to generate again. Look at some real
e-mail you received.

> 2. is there a better way to make the date string that the loop that I
> have?

Probably, but I can't tell it now.

> 3. line length: Is having it set to 78 ok or is that 2 over the limit?

It's over the limit. 78 is with \r\n. 

> Here is the new code:

there's a bug here

> while end == 0:
>     msg=raw_input()
>     
>     if msg=='':
>         if new_line_1=='1':

If I would press enter in the first line, it raise a NameError (new_line_1
is not defined)
So define it before the if.


> Thanks again
> 
> Peter

Good luck,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net



From romany at actimize.com  Thu Sep  4 07:41:06 2003
From: romany at actimize.com (Roman Yakovenko)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:41:06 +0300
Subject: xml.dom.minidom -  bug ? future ?
Message-ID: <91BFE89EFFA2904E9A4C3ACB4E5F2DF5027B12@exchange.adrembi.com>

	Hi. What I don't understand is why I dump to xml string that contains
new - lines and when I read it from xml new lines replaced by spaces. 
May be I do something wrong? Or may be I just need to define encoding?
Here is some simple program that reproduce it.


#------------------
import xml.dom.minidom 

doc = """1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8"""

def save():
    DOMImpl = xml.dom.minidom.getDOMImplementation()
    controller_doc = DOMImpl.createDocument( None, "Multiline", None)   
    controller_elem = controller_doc.documentElement
    controller_elem.setAttribute( "str", doc )
    controller_xml = controller_elem.toxml()
    session = file( "c:/temp/__stam222.xml", 'w+' )
    session.write( controller_xml )
    session.close()

def load():
    controller_doc = xml.dom.minidom.parse( "c:/temp/__stam222.xml" )
    controller_elem = controller_doc.documentElement
    ldoc = controller_elem.getAttribute( "str" )
    print ldoc
    return ldoc
    
save()

assert doc == load()

#------------------

Thanks
	
	Roman




From john at doe.com  Fri Sep  5 17:01:41 2003
From: john at doe.com (Brian Donovan)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 21:01:41 GMT
Subject: Replacing python: in syslog log messages
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.05.20.59.24.934002@doe.com>

Does anyone know a way to replace the python: in syslog messages?

As an example:

Currently I have:

Sep  5 16:57:03 typhoon python: jeeves_backup starting

I would like:

Sep  5 16:57:03 typhoon jeeves_backup: starting

Thanks

Brian




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Sep  7 09:44:15 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:44:15 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F5B362F.B5CCC6F2@engcorp.com>

Tim Parkin wrote:
> 
> As a side note, I haven't been to any school of 'control the user
> experience'. Furthermore I think making comments such as accusing me of
> having a 'childish ego' and being 'arrogant' are IMO extremely
> disrespectful and I would appreciate an apology. I am quite hurt and 
> dissapointed to see such coments on what I had considered a respectable 
> forum for discussion although I'm sure they are not representative.

On behalf of those with the nasty fingers today, I apologize.  Tim,
they must have missed the relatively clear warnings that these
are *mockups*, and posted for discussion purposes.  I agree also
that harsh public criticism without constructive comments is 
wholly unwarranted, and out of order around here, not to mention
(thankfully) rather atypical.

Heck, I *have* read several books on horrible web page design, and
have a background that includes a fair bit of typography and related
study and work, and I didn't think the pages were bad.  I'm a 
little stunned by the hyperbolic comments.

Maybe the pages aren't felt to be appropriate for *Python*'s web 
site, or maybe on certain screens the colours or sizes don't look
quite right, but at least somebody is trying something(*), and 
I hope you'll be able to rise above the negativism and stick it out
long enough to find any comments which truly merit consideration.

-Peter

(*) Personally, I never thought the existing site was a big problem,
but then I just view the web as a simple way to search for text
and I still use Netscape 4.7 much of the time, so I'm obviously not
the target for these improvements...



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 20:28:00 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:28:00 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it> <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com> <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com> <uy8w94wtz.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <lhacnvksb6ppje2lfogrqhv30rbcahgil2@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:48:24 -0400, David Abrahams
<dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:
>
>>>> and without that ability to dereference the iterator (1) I cannot see
>>>> the point of iterating through a pair, and (2) the 'iterator' would
>>>> not be a true iterator as C++ iterators have to comply with one of a
>>>> set of standard protocols (forward, bidirectional, random etc) which
>>>> all include subscripting.
>>>
>>>I'm pretty well familiar with those protocols - I've been working on
>>>the C++ standards committee since 1997 and have written several
>>>related proposals, c.f. http://tinyurl.com/ovpe.
>>
>> OK - sorry for that.
>
>No prob.
>
>> I remain surprised that this degree of specialisation occurs, but
>> it's a case of live and learn I suppose.
>
>Sorry, what specialization?

Presumably template specialisation - such that the special case of
std::pair<T,T> picks up the iterating functionality that
std::pair<T,U> lacks (begin, end etc). That is what I thought you were
saying.

Or am I still getting this wrong?


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 13:26:20 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 18:26:20 +0100
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <09a3d6364c.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <2c60a528.0309240338.1e4dd261@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87zngu14jn.fsf@pobox.com>

and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover) writes:
[...]> 
> (Using JavaScript or meta-refresh to do redirects is almost always a
> really terrible idea.)

I know I don't like them "on principle", but what practical problems
do they cause?  Do proper HTTP redirects avoid the "back button trap",
maybe?  I've never noticed...


John



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 13:47:53 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:47:53 -0500
Subject: Mandrake Linux 9: Why isn't bsddb working?
In-Reply-To: <bka45f$q6rg1$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bka45f$q6rg1$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16232.40521.588930.11366@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >>>> import bsddb
    >> Traceback (most recent call last):
    >>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    >>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", line 40, in ?
    >>     import _bsddb

    >> What might I have done wrong, and/or what should I do to fix it? 

You probably don't have the necessary -devel RPM installed.

(If you don't want direct replies, choose a more obviously invalid email
address.  If you do want replies, choose a more obviously valid email
address.  "home.org" is a valid domain.  "not at home.org" is a bit vague.)

Skip




From mark at hahnca.com  Thu Sep 11 22:42:21 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:42:21 -0700
Subject: Background image in toplevel
References: <Xns93F2869B93CCFhowardeegsoftwarecom@64.164.98.51> <mailman.1063231517.894.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <soa8b.25082$n94.12449@fed1read04>

I tried to do this in  wxPython and gave up.  I found that windows,
canvasses, and frames could have transparent backgrounds, but any control
like a text editor, couldn't.  I think it is fundamental and that GUIs
assume controls have opaque backgrounds.





From franke at ableton.com  Wed Sep 17 13:25:25 2003
From: franke at ableton.com (Stefan Franke)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:25:25 +0200
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063816944.29901.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1063816944.29901.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bka5e3$qito9$1@ID-105404.news.uni-berlin.de>

Try:

from itertools import ifilter

s=Set(xrange(1,11))
s=Set(ifilter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))



fortepianissimo wrote:

> But this created two lists (keys and dummy)? Compared to the filter()
> method, which created a list and a new set, maybe your suggestion is
> still a bit faster...
> 
> --- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>>    fortepianissimo> I know I can do things like
>>    fortepianissimo> s=Set(range(1,11))
>>    fortepianissimo> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))
>>
>>    fortepianissimo> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a
>>list
>>    fortepianissimo> which then must be converted back to a set. Any
>>tips?
>>
>>The only thing which comes to mind is:
>>
>>    >>> s = sets.Set(range(1,11))
>>    >>> s
>>    Set([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10])
>>    >>> keys = list(s)
>>    >>> dummy = [s.discard(x) for x in keys if x%2]
>>    >>> s
>>    Set([2, 4, 6, 8, 10])
>>
>>You still create a list, but don't create a second set.
>>
>>Skip
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> 




From mpeuser at web.de  Mon Sep 15 12:09:04 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:09:04 +0200
Subject: Multiple instances of modules
References: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk4o4j$gr5$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"Daniel Pryde" <ababo_2002 at hotmail.com>

> I'm currently trying to learn Python, my aim being to create my final
> year project at university using only Python instead of Java. I've run
> into a problem though while trying to make multiple instances of
> modules.

Can it be you want to instatiate a class? The class concept in Python has
nothing to do with moduls. You can define all your classes in your main
module. Read through some tutorials.

Kindly
Michael P





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 11:26:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:26:30 -0400
Subject: import on modules/files that don't have .py extension
References: <899f842.0309170649.517e0bb9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F687D26.F26CB546@engcorp.com>

Anthony_Barker wrote:
> 
> Is it possible to import modules/files that have something other than
> the .py extension?

Something like this?

import os, imp

filepath = '/some/long/path/to/file.notpy'
f = open(filepath)
description = ('.notpy', 'r', imp.PY_SOURCE)
module = imp.load_module('__main__', f, filepath, description)

(Slightly edited from some working code.)

-Peter



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Mon Sep 15 22:11:15 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:11:15 GMT
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com> <Xns93F621566B79BJanC@213.118.75.228> <877k4bk0i0.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F82A991BDF4JanC@213.118.75.228>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) schreef:

> Well, I suppose I really don't know whether or not Qt uses, say, the
> native Windows tree control.  In the end, that's the point of
> interest: both Qt and wx were designed from the ground up to be
> cross-platform (unlike Tk -- I presume -- and certainly unlike GTk).
> Without reading the source code, you'd be hard pushed to figure out
> which things Qt reimplements, and which it reuses.

> Qt has never been slow or looked bad on Windows (or unix).

According to their website they use native Windows API, but when I tried 
some Qt-programs I've seen those subtle differences with normal Windows-
applications, which is very annoying at times.  When something looks 
similar, you expect it to behave similar.  :-(
(A good example of this is dialog boxes with No/Yes while that should be 
Yes/No on Windows.)

The rather simple Qt applications I have tried (one of them was Psi) took 
about 25-35% of system & GDI resource handles on Win98 (resource handles 
going below 5-10% is almost always "good" for a system crash in Win9x...) 
and they reacted a little slow at times.  Until now I never got this 
problem with wxWindows programs (e.g. Audacity) on Win98.

All this gave me the "I don't like Qt" feeling, but maybe it's just that I 
tried the wrong applications.  ;-)

Thinking about it, this might just be a Win9x <-> WinNT issue.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Mon Sep 15 03:35:40 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:35:40 +0100
Subject: Huh?!?!? What is it that I'm seeing here?
In-Reply-To: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <00b601c37b5b$fcbb9ca0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Don Bruder:
>I'm hitting some stuff that looks to be 
>idiomatic, without being able to locate a definition/description of the

>idiom
>
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>  run(argv[1:])

A general help hint is to use google and throw all of the 'words' from
the sample in...

Heres what to search for in your case...

"__name__ argv main site:www.python.org"

Heres a link..

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=__name__+argv+m
ain+site%3Awww.python.org&meta=

This generally helps me in 99% of problems.

It's a shame you have chosen not to ever learn another programming
langauge (as I presume this isn't a specific anti-python feeling). All
languages will 'expire' someday and you could do a lot, lot worse than
Python as your next one.

Tim






From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 15:20:38 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:20:38 +0100
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <10c662fe.0309270545.1fd5d839@posting.google.com> <7tidnd_LS5ElWOiiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <combnv8hpr0agl0ij5ihrdvk3p4b10vs6e@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:15:34 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>As I pointed out in response to the same message, there is no
>inconsistency because the premise behind that conclusion is wrong.  I
>also pointed out that you can make the premise true and get the
>consistency you expect by adding a comma after single slice
>expressions so that you do always use tuple notation.

"object [slice(...),slice(...)]" is a notation for subscripting with a
tuple of slices. The user has explicitly created slice objects without
using slice notation, and has wrapped them in a tuple, so has no right
to expect any additional behaviour that slice notation might provide.

But Roberto didn't do that.

To me, "object [a:b:c,d:e:f]" doesn't look like a tuple notation. It
looks like a slice notation. 'a:b:c' is not a notation for an object
in itself, and therefore 'a:b:c,d:e:f' is not a notation for a tuple.

The fact that this slicing is implemented by passing a tuple
containing slice objects to __getitem__ is besides the point - each
individual 'a:b:c' should be handled in the same way as if there were
only one 'a:b:c' there.

However, a little experiment surprised me...

>>> class a :
...   def __getitem__ (self, idx) :
...     print idx
...
>>> x=a()
>>> x[1:2:3,]
(slice(1, 2, 3),)

The apparant purpose of the notation is to allow multi-dimensional
slicing. I can see how having a single-dimensional slice call that is
implemented consistently with the multi-dimensional slices is
convenient when writing the __getitem__, but the whole point of
libraries is handle complexity so that the caller doesn't have to. Why
does the caller have to deal with two incompatible single-dimensional
slice notations?

Could the two single-dimensional slice notations have usefully
distinct meanings? Do those distinct meanings justify applying the
negative subscript fix in one case but not the other?

Something is going on that seems strange to me. I suspect that these
are signs of a repeated-extension-over-history with
backward-compatibility issue. Maybe Numeric was the first place where
it was recognised that the negative subscription trick is not always
appropriate - but until new-style classes the basic slice notation
could not be made consistent without big back-compatibility issues.

I'm rather glad that with new-style classes things have been made
consistent.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Wed Sep  3 08:20:02 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:20:02 +0200
Subject: PKCS7 file signature checking.
Message-ID: <bj4lf9$rgi$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

I'm totally newbie in the signature stuffs.

I got a text file stuff.txt and a (said PKCS7) signature file sign.txt that
looks like this...

"3080020101310b300906052b0e03021a050030800..." (2648 bytes long in 1 line)

Is there a pythonic way to verify that signature against the text file ?
I even didn't get the way to do this with openssl (the doc from openssl.org
is for crypto experts and nothing for newbies)

Thanks in advance for any pointer, description and examples for dummies.

--Gilles




From ak at nospam.com  Mon Sep 29 18:05:10 2003
From: ak at nospam.com (AK)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:05:10 GMT
Subject: I, monster: nethack-like game
Message-ID: <q02eb.44767$ai7.16580@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Hi, I coded a little game in curses, loosely based on nethack but where
you command the monsters against the hero (and his dog).

I don't have time to develop it further, so I thought someone may look
at it and play wit the code.

It is playable now - and entertaining to an extent - but still very
incomplete.

So far it's got:

 * few types of monsters
 * few types of armor
 * few types of weapons
 * map editor
 * movement commands like g<dir>, hjkl, yubn, 13l
 * 14 levels with new monsters under your command on each level, with
   the same hero, who gains experience and may pick up new weapons/armor

Bugs:

 * unbalanced
 * path finding sometimes won't work well
 * monsters will jump through walls sometimes
 * path finding may be slow when many monsters are on the map
 * the hero is dumb
 * need more items, traps, abilities to make gameplay variable

download: <http://silmarill.org/imonster.htm>

 -AK



From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Thu Sep  4 18:20:50 2003
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 15:20:50 -0700
Subject: Dictionary that uses regular expressions
References: <1f0bdf30.0308202049.7d251469@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0309041420.3378fa6c@posting.google.com>

Hey, cool code, I wrote a dictionary-keyed dictionary a while back to
get something like the same functionality, basically I wanted an
n-dimensional database type object and a dictionary with a dictionary
key seemed like the way to go, but keeping the keys as strings and
using regexps to find unique objects seems like a smart way to go. 
The code is certainly cleaner, although I'm sure my version is far
from optimal (or pythonic, for that matter.)  Thanks for sharing!



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 16 21:56:56 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 18:56:56 -0700
Subject: None, False, True
References: <mailman.1063738162.25853.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309161756.99b8e@posting.google.com>

"Pettersen, Bjorn S" <BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063738162.25853.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: M-a-S [mailto:NO-MAIL at hotmail.com] 
> > >>> None = 3
> 
> you're assigning the value 3 to the name 'None'
> 
> > <stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
> 
> the compiler warns you that 'None' is a special name that you probably
> don't want to rebind.
> 

Actually the compiler warns you that 'None' is s special name that you
probably _didn't_ want to rebind.  But you have.  As you can see, the
compiler doesn't issue such warnings with regard to 'True' and
'False.'  Does that explain it?

>>>def spam(): pass
...
>>>None = spam()
<stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
>>>False = bool(spam())
>>>True = bool(spam)
>>>(None, False, True)
(None, False, True)

all fixed now %)



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Sep 22 14:17:28 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:17:28 -0700
Subject: Playing with dictionaries
References: <10c662fe.0309220907.a84bea5@posting.google.com> <eppstein-2C8472.10575222092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <eppstein-93CD10.11172822092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <eppstein-2C8472.10575222092003 at news.service.uci.edu>,
 David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

> def makehierarchy(dataset,prefix=''):
>    for key in dataset:
>       if dataset[key] is None:
>          dataset[key] = prefix + key
>       elif isinstance(dataset[key], dict):
>          makehierarchy(dataset[key], prefix + key + ".")
>       else:
>          raise ValueError, "Unexpected data type in makehierarchy"
> 
> >>> makehierarchy(dataset,'dataset')

Sorry, cut-and-paste error here -- updated the live code and forgot to 
update the copy in my posting.  That should be makehierarchy(dataset).

> >>> pprint.pprint(dataset)
> {'casts': {'experimenter': 'casts.experimenter',
>            'location': {'latitude': 'casts.location.latitude',
>                         'longitude': 'casts.location.longitude'},
>            'time': 'casts.time',
>            'xbt': {'depth': 'casts.xbt.depth',
>                    'temperature': 'casts.xbt.temperature'}},
>  'catalog_number': 'catalog_number',
>  'z': {'array': {'z': 'z.array.z'},
>        'maps': {'lat': 'z.maps.lat', 'lon': 'z.maps.lon'}}}

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From jacobsmail at gmx.net  Thu Sep 18 19:51:43 2003
From: jacobsmail at gmx.net (Jacob H)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 16:51:43 -0700
Subject: Ways to improve this clock algorithm?
References: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063663101.24621.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33fbf9ec.0309181551.4df1339d@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all for the replies. They did indeed improve my clock algorithm. ;)

Jake



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 13:24:44 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:24:44 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com> <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com> <ebt0nvckrjv0or52pdmi8ghe147006ioi9@4ax.com> <kl31nvk4j0lhsbmeg9pra3c4mh78rrkivp@4ax.com> <6bm1nvc7pfkqppndn0lcks0edqdqf02tra@4ax.com> <9ji3nv8l1l57t1ichle04hkd41s31i9fmf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tek3nv87eq8etb7f3m7k6j63u4m7trstpj@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:50:11 +0100, Tim Rowe
<tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:02:47 +0100, Stephen Horne
><$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>This would be a nightmare for the parser - until it finds the colon or
>>end-of-line (or semicolon perhaps) it simply wouldn't know which case
>>it was dealing with.
>>
>>But if this is bad for the parser, just think what it would do to
>>users! - forgetting a trailing semicolon shouldn't result in a
>>statement which is legal yet with a significantly different meaning.
>
>That's why I don't like it in Perl and Ruby -- I can tell it's hard
>for the parser because so few syntax highlighters get it right!
>
>Maybe I'm getting twitchy about nothing -- after all, indentation
>being significant brough back unhappy memories of FORTRAN, but Python
>makes it work...

That was basically a fluked typo - I meant the missing the trailing
colon at the end of the 'break if ...' line, but of couse a semicolon
added/lost semicolon in the wrong place can be just as bad.

I don't think this would hurt Python the same way, though, as 'if'
cannot follow after a statement on the same line for (presumably to
ensure that the indentation makes sense)...

>>> break ; if 1 :
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    break ; if 1 :
             ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax


So a 'break if ... :' cannot accidentally metamorphose into a 'break;
if ... :'.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 10:34:57 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:34:57 +0100
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c37616$66c96aa0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

>"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
>news:87fzj7cvbv.fsf at pobox.com...
>> It seems fairly clear by now that the purpose of the mockup was to
>What we were directed to was *not* a mockup (model), but an image of a
>mockup.  That mislabeling was a source of misunderstanding which
>generated part of the criticism.  Please let us keep the useful
>distinction between a thing and an image of the thing.
>Terry J. Reedy

>From the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary - Eight Edition
"Mock Up - An experimental model or replica of a proposed structure"

Tim - 'only posting to defend my right to use dictionary english'






From bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be  Fri Sep  5 13:36:46 2003
From: bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bernard_Delm=E9e?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:36:46 +0200
Subject: python 2.3, cvs module specific question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062720587.12776.python-list@python.org>
References: <3f565440$0$1114$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net> <mailman.1062720587.12776.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f58c962$0$1115$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>

>     class semi(csv.excel):
>         delimiter = ';'

Thanks, guys, I hadn't thought of this simple solution.
It solves my problem nicely.

> No, it's just a bug in my implementation.

This module as it is, is very useful, Skip. Frankly with
the speed improvements, the csv, datetime and logging
modules, python 2.3 is a really satisfying release.
Rest assured that your effort does not go unnoticed.

Cheers,

Bernard.




From fuerte at sci.fi  Thu Sep 11 16:28:04 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:28:04 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <3F60C3DA.6070409@zope.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <3F60B545.6030100@sci.fi> <3F60C3DA.6070409@zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F60DAD4.2090004@sci.fi>

Shane Hathaway wrote:

> [Moved to python-list at python.org, where this thread belongs]
>
> Harri Pesonen wrote:
>
>> But my basic message is this: Python needs to be made thread safe. 
>> Making the individual interpreters thread safe is trivial, and 
>> benefits many people, and is a necessary first step; making threads 
>> within interpreter thread safe is possible as well, at least if you 
>> leave something for the developer, as you should, as you do in every 
>> other programming language as well.
>
>
> Lately, I've been considering an alternative to this line of thinking. 
> I've been wondering whether threads are truly the right direction to 
> pursue.  This would be heresy in the Java world, but maybe Pythonistas 
> are more open to this thought.
>
> The concept of a thread is composed of two concepts: multiple 
> processes and shared memory.  Supporting multiple simultaneous 
> processes is relatively simple and has proven value.  Shared memory, 
> on the other hand, results in a great number of complications.  Some 
> of the complications have remained difficult problems for a long time: 
> preventing deadlocks, knowing exactly what needs to be locked, finding 
> race conditions, etc.  I don't believe we should force the burden of 
> thread safety on every software engineer.  Engineers have better 
> things to do.
>
> At the same time, shared memory is quite valuable when you're ready to 
> take on the burden of thread safety.  Therefore, I'm looking for a 
> good way to split a process into multiple processes and share only 
> certain parts of a program with other processes.  I'd like some form 
> of *explicit* sharing with a Pythonic API.
>
> Imagine the following Python module:
>
>
> import pseudothreads
>
> data = pseudothreads.shared([])
>
> def data_collection_thread():
>     s = get_some_data()
>     data.append(s)
>
> for n in range(4):
>     pseudothreads.start_new_thread(data_collection_thread)
>
>
> In this made-up example, nothing is shared between threads except for 
> the "data" global.  The shared() function copies the list to shared 
> memory and returns a wrapper around the list that prevents access by 
> multiple threads simultaneously.  start_new_thread() is a thin wrapper 
> around os.fork().  Each pseudothread has its own global interpreter lock.
>
> I wonder whether others would consider such a thing valuable, or even 
> feasible. :-)

Sounds great! :-) Basically, you are suggesting that each thread that is 
created in Python, has its own separate interpreter, and if the 
programmer ever wants to communicate between different threads, he has 
to do it explicitly using the tools that are available. Sounds good to me.

So my original suggestion of removing all global data and having the 
interpreter state always on stack, expanded with this idea, it would 
make Python completely thread safe. No need for global interpreter lock 
anymore. Of course this would break the existing Python thread code, but 
something has to break anyhow. :-)

Harri






From jrbexbox at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  2 12:39:04 2003
From: jrbexbox at hotmail.com (Rebecca Taylor)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 09:39:04 -0700
Subject: win32com problems with Visible property
Message-ID: <f431a335.0309020839.486b6f92@posting.google.com>

I have been working with win32com on python for 2 years now.  I
recently tried to modify an older script I had made which creates and
excel workbook, fills it with data and then graphs the data.

Nothing is working!
When I try to run it I get this error:

"Property '%s.%s' can not be set." % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: Property 'Excel.Application.visible' can not be set."

Does anyone know why this is happening?  I can't figure out if windows
has changed or if win32all or the new python distribution is the
problem.  Worse yet, I reinstalled my old versions of python and
win32all and that isn't working either!

Thanks in advance.
-rebecca



From ask at me.com  Tue Sep 30 19:57:57 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:57:57 GMT
Subject: distutils (packaging) newbie questions please....
References: <bf23f78f.0309301511.376225b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9Moeb.10508$NX3.4770@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

"Christian Seberino" <seberino at spawar.navy.mil> wrote in message
news:bf23f78f.0309301511.376225b0 at posting.google.com...
> I really want to learn distutils to professionally package some open
> source software.
>
> I had some distutils questions after reading python.org distutil docs
> on packaging code
> if you don't mind.  I would really appreciate some help.....

I've never used distutil, so I can onlt help a little bit here.

> 1. What exactly goes into the __init__.py files? I know what to put in
> setup.py
>     and I know __init__.py is used for packages but I don't know what
> to put IN this file.

You don't NEED to put anything in it, it works fine as an empty file. You
CAN put code in there to initialize your package, but personally I've never
had to.

> 2. About the data_files option for setup.py....
>
>       data_files = [ "<installation directory>", [ "<file1>",
> "<file2>", ...] ]
>
>    Is there a way to AVOID having to type EVERY single data file?? Can
> I specify
>    just the directory or use wild cards??

Sure, it's just a list of filenames. You can use glob.glob('*.dat') like
this:

data_files = = ['./images', glob.glob('*.png')]


Hopefully someone else can help you with the rest.


greg





From klappnase at web.de  Wed Sep 17 08:01:51 2003
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 05:01:51 -0700
Subject: audio module
References: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0309170401.1e236db2@posting.google.com>

Todd Stephens <Huzzah!@Huzzah.com> wrote in message news:<9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961 at twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
> Is there such a module containing audio tools?  I am looking specifically
> for tools to manipulate ogg-vorbis and convert other formats (mp3, wav) to
> ogg.

Hi,

try tkSnack : www.speech.kth.se/snack

I think it should be able to handle ogg files, though I have not tried this.

Cheers

Michael



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Sep 18 09:05:44 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:05:44 -0600
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real
  :))
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com>
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
 <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org>
 <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030918062621.034af730@66.28.54.253>

At 05:48 PM 9/17/2003, Lothar Scholz wrote:
>[snip]
>i hope that there support for the program is better then the support
>for their website. Everything in the last weeks doesn't look very promising.

I sat yesterday with a friend going thru the latest version's tutorial. 
theKompany did not effectively test the tutorial. (Meaning act as a total 
newcomer and follow the instructions literally.) The number of errors is 
high (what IS an acceptable error count?). We had to guess, backtrack, 
experiment to get through. This raises the cost of ownership.

The UI did not always perform as one would expect or desire.

The editor leaves a lot to be desired (auto-indent, parentheses matching, 
cursor at end of line after click, pane splitter, ...). If any of these 
features are present, the tutorial gave no clue as to how to access them. I 
had hoped to move from PythonWin to BA, but the PythonWin editor is so 
superior I guess I'll use the BA editor just for Qt-related code.

The main.py module generator created code that threw an exception.

I wonder what process theKompany uses for proofing documentation. The 
process is obviously not effective.

I opened a bug on the BA Mantis system to report the existence of some 
non-Python code in the PyQt Docs. The response was, in effect, "where do 
you see this", and the bug was closed so I could not even answer the 
question. I'd like to think that their document review process would catch 
these problems.

I wonder whether they have any kind of usability lab where their designers 
get to sit with some of us developers and see what needs to be changed in 
the UI.

I am confused when they ask for feedback and then do not respond to it in 
an effective manner.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep  4 17:04:40 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:04:40 GMT
Subject: python plugin for excel (ala gnumeric)
References: <8dad5312.0309040107.7f1b6aff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <INN5b.8783$tw6.3857@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Sebastien de Menten:
> I need a plugin that enables me to access a python VM directly from
> excel (the COM server path is not satisfactory as it uses the
> registry).

The Excel add-in works (I thought) through COM, so I don't
know if what you want is possible.

Excel and Outlook use the same API.  The route I took to figure
Excel's out was to start with Mark Hammond's SpamBayes Outlook
add-in for clues, combined with the VBA help for Excel and plenty
of web searches for the relevant functions.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From http  Wed Sep 17 19:30:43 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 16:30:43 -0700
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7xwuc7ouvw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

hokieghal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> writes:
> ------------------------------
> a="192."
> b="168."
> c="1."
> r = range(256)
> for r in r:
> 	print a + b + c + r

for r in range(256):
  print "192.168.1.%d" % r



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 19:57:45 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 19:57:45 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062968892.20507.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjgglp$hlq$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1062968892.20507.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Parkin <tim at pollenation.net> wrote:
>Aahz:
>>
>> Don't worry -- some people think that's redundant, but Guido has
>> Prounounced that it will stay.
>
>Perhaps Guido or yourself could inform us of any other requirements. As
>far as I am aware this was never mentioned to anyone working on the
>design effort.

Search the marketing-python or pydotorg-redesign archives; it was
mentioned two or three weeks ago.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From stani_ at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  6 02:08:03 2003
From: stani_ at hotmail.com (SM)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 23:08:03 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <99230dbb.0309052208.44a71da4@posting.google.com>

Maybe you check out this newcomer :
http://projects.blender.org/projects/spe/
http://www.pycs.net/users/0000167/
It's open-source, extensible with Boa, usable as a module and has all
the usual features(auto-indentation, syntax highlighting, source
index, hierarchal class browser, automatic todo-lists, recent file and
directory browser, interactive shell, run scripts before they are
saved, ...).  Moreover it has Blender support!


mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
> Pythonistas,
> 
> My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
> _Charming Python_ a couple years back.  Now I have another such roundup
> lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.
> 
> In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
> IDE.  I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
> announcements.  But really I just use text editors and command lines.
> 
> Here's the thing:  I probably have room to look at about four different
> tools in one article.  In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
> Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
> in the available words.  I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
> -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.
> 
> So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
> list.  I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
> prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
> copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
> 
> Yours, David...



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 09:54:28 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:54:28 +0100
Subject: Python mascot? How about a Pythoneer?
References: <mailman.1064860652.7777.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sn2jnvcqflb70metktd27jqjr1pe8unu0p@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:36:20 -0700, Michael Chermside
<mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:

>I'm not an artist, but I still want to question your "requirements"
>above. You declare "An effective mascot has to have something
>approximating two arms, two legs, and a head". I certainly see why
>an effective mascott needs a _face_ (to express emotion, and to take
>advantage of the hardwired human facial-feature processor). But I
>really don't understand the need for two legs, and with some creative
>stretch, I'm unsure about the hands.

Oh, hands aren't needed:
http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/dustpuppy/



From grante at visi.com  Thu Sep 11 17:33:07 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 21:33:07 GMT
Subject: why is this failing?
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> <3F60E645.2501B9EE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3f60ea13$0$42053$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3F60E645.2501B9EE at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Don't use names of builtins and your life will be easier. :-)

And the easiest way to do that is to use an editor with a
Python mode.  Make sure it shows builtins in a distinct color.
You will then know immediately (while editing) when you
accidentally redefine a builtin.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I call it a "SARDINE
                                  at               ON WHEAT"!
                               visi.com            



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep  4 12:57:44 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:57:44 -0400
Subject: How do I match this with re
References: <8f8ffe67.0309040835.368f9565@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9NOdnRoV2sGU8sqiXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"Sunit Joshi" <sjoshi at ingr.com> wrote in message
news:8f8ffe67.0309040835.368f9565 at posting.google.com...
> Hello All
> I have a problem here where I need to find the drive letters in a
text
> file and replace them with another letter. Now the lines can be as
> long as this
>
> 6 'C:\pds\bddin64\report\mto\' 'SJOSHI'
> 'D:\pds\bddin64\report\format\' 'SJOSHI'
>
> with multiple entries for path; i.e. there may be 2, as above or 1
or
> more then 2. If I use the expression .*'([A-Z]:).*?', it only
matches
> the 2nd D: How do I get all the path groups ..??

Use file.readline() or .readlines() and then process one line at a
time.

Terry





From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Sep 22 15:14:58 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:14:58 -0300
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FD5@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Sorry for not replying the original message.

See PEP 08:

    - Avoid slicing strings when checking for prefixes or suffixes.
      Use startswith() and endswith() instead, since they are faster,
      cleaner and less error prone.  E.g.:

        No:  if foo[:3] == 'bar':
        Yes: if foo.startswith('bar'):

      The exception is if your code must work with Python 1.5.2 (but
      let's hope not!).


.	Facundo


#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: David Eppstein [mailto:eppstein at ics.uci.edu]
#- Enviado el: Lunes 22 de Septiembre de 2003 3:52 PM
#- Para: python-list at python.org
#- Asunto: Re: Slicing vs .startswith
#- 
#- 
#- In article <3F6F3E38.5221D7E7 at engcorp.com>,
#-  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
#- 
#- > > For example, which one of the following would be more 
#- efficient, or ,
#- > > moreover, more pythonic?
#- > > 
#- > > if aa[:3] == 'abc':
#- > > 
#- > > vs
#- > > 
#- > > if aa.startswith('abc'):
#- > 
#- > The latter is clearly more readable.
#- 
#- More Pythonic, too, I think.  "Readability counts," and 
#- "There should be 
#- one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."  In 
#- this case, 
#- startswith must be the one obvious way, or else why would it 
#- exist in 
#- the standard library at all?
#- 
#- -- 
#- David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
#- Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science
#- -- 
#- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#- 





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

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From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep 29 11:07:32 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 15:07:32 GMT
Subject: Recursion
References: <xjLdb.565$Vb3.450032@news1.news.adelphia.net> <vFNdb.646$Vb3.493747@news1.news.adelphia.net> <sftk41-203.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <bl9hrk$cao$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:06:37 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>Jakle fed this fish to the penguins on Sunday 28 September 2003 08:28 
>pm:
>
>> 
>> That's great. You guys have no idea how much that helped. And I love
>> that debugging tip. For some reason I thought that the 2 statements
>> after the recursion call, "result = n * recurse" and "return result"
>> weren't executed till n == 0. If you can't tell, I'm new to this. But
>
>        They aren't executed until the "first" return from factorial() -- 
>which only happens when n /is/ 0... At that point, the recursive calls 
>start returning and executing the statements under the factorial() call.
>
>        To reduce indentation, I'll use just 3!
>
>Factorial(3)
> n has value 3
> n is NOT 0 so
> res= Factorial(n-1)
>                Factorial(2)
>                 n has value 2
>                 n is not 0 so
>                 res= Factorial(n-1)
>                                Factorial(1)
>                                 n has value 1
>                                 n is not 0 so
>                                 res= Factorial(n-1)
>                                                Factorial(0)
>                                                 n has value 0
>                                                 n IS 0 so
>                                                 return 1
>                                 res is now 1
>                                 return n * res (1 * 1)
>                 res is now 1
>                 return n * res (2 * 1)
> res is now 2
> return n * res (3 * 2)
>
>Factorial(3) returns value 6
>
>
>        Each time Factorial makes a recursive call to itself (I know, that is 
>redundant phrasing) it creates a new "block" of local variables, the 
>variables in the previous block can not be seen. When a return 
>statement is encountered, the block of locals is deleted, leaving the 
>return value visible to the calling block.      
>
>
You didn't type that out by hand, did you? ;-)

====< showfact.py >=======================================
def showfact(n, indent=0):
    sind = len(' res= Factorial(')*' '*indent
    print '%sFactorial(%s)'%(sind, n)
    print '%s n has value %s' %(sind, n)
    print '%s n %s 0 so'%(sind, ('is not', 'IS')[n==0])
    if n==0:
        print '%s return 1' %sind
        return 1
    print '%s res= Factorial(n-1)'% sind
    res = showfact(n-1, indent+1)
    print '%s res is now %s' %(sind, res)
    print '%s return n * res (%s * %s)' % (sind, n, res)
    return n * res

def test(n):
    print '\nFactorial(%s) returns value %s' % (n, showfact(n))

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    try: test(int(sys.argv[1]))
    except: print 'Usage: showfact.py <integer arg>'
==========================================================

[ 8:16] C:\pywk\clp>showfact.py
Usage: showfact.py <integer arg>

[ 8:16] C:\pywk\clp>showfact.py 2
Factorial(2)
 n has value 2
 n is not 0 so
 res= Factorial(n-1)
                Factorial(1)
                 n has value 1
                 n is not 0 so
                 res= Factorial(n-1)
                                Factorial(0)
                                 n has value 0
                                 n IS 0 so
                                 return 1
                 res is now 1
                 return n * res (1 * 1)
 res is now 1
 return n * res (2 * 1)

Factorial(2) returns value 2


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From rob at pyrite.org  Mon Sep 22 07:59:00 2003
From: rob at pyrite.org (Rob Tillotson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:59:00 -0500
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org>
 <6e990e29.0309220251.51fa648d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87fzipavaz.fsf@mally.pyrite.org>

hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier) writes:
> Still, I can see a use for mutable strings. Or better, mutable binary
> data, made up of bytes. (where 'byte' is the smallest individually
> addressable memory unit blabla, ... you get the meaning. Just to not
> invite nit-pickers on that term.)
>
>> "explicit is better than implicit".
>
> Yes, definitely: Let there be another type.

There already is one: array.  Mutable blocks of bytes (or shorts,
longs, floats, etc.), usable in many places where you might otherwise
use a string (struct.unpack, writing to a file, etc.).  It is not
quite a mutable string, but it does fit the bill for manipulating raw
bytes.  For example, off the top of my head:

  >>> import array
  >>> a = array.array('B','abcdefg')
  >>> a
  array('B', [97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103])
  >>> a[2:4] = array.array('B','12345')
  >>> a
  array('B', [97, 98, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 101, 102, 103])
  >>> a.tostring()
  'ab12345efg'

For times when you really need a mutable string, there is always
UserString.MutableString (not quite sure what version this first
appeared in) -- it isn't terribly efficient since it uses a regular
string internally to hold the data, but it gets the job done and if
you really need something faster it would be a fairly simple exercise
to rewrite it using an array instead.

--Rob

-- 
Rob Tillotson  N9MTB  <rob at pyrite.org>



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 16:12:48 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:12:48 +0100
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <3F745445.D9628351@engcorp.com> <zM_cb.75296$PD3.4794304@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <v029nv4ohqofkcggbcrtehl9j1v3dgjid0@4ax.com> <LUldb.74647$ev5.1010409@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <nbqbnvco759uvb33uoku2i350a6uekq00l@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:49:59 -0400, Nicolas Fleury
<nid_oizo at yahoo.com_removethe_> wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>> Basically, when I need to break an expression over multiple lines, the
>> odds are that it already has parentheses anyway. And I wouldn't indent
>> that way anyway, I'd do it as...
>> 
>> a = (  firstitem
>>      + seconditem
>>      + (  thirditem
>>         * fourthitem
>>        )
>>     )
>
>But that's indentation anyway.  If the rule would be "all lines with a 
>superior indentation are part of the previous line", would that work? 

Probably yes, but it has been discussed before and never generated a
clear enough choice or sufficient will to make the change.

My personal preference would be closer to Haskells offside rule,
allowing me to write something similar to my example above but with
indentation reducing the need for parentheses. But it really isn't an
important issue IMO.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 12:33:14 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:33:14 GMT
Subject: Is there an extension library?
References: <mailman.1064582556.9949.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eZidb.179391$R32.5743098@news2.tin.it>

Letbetter, Jason wrote:

> I'm creating Python extensions for several c/c++ components.    I'm using
> swig to create the extensions.  The biggest challenge so far is working
> with
> the c args between Python and the Python extension.  Is there a 3rd party
> library of extension helpers that assist in representing c-types between
> Python and c?  Are there any tips and tricks?

The vast SWIG manual, at www.swig.org, does give many tips and tricks;
SWIG also comes with a librayr of helpers such as you request.


> Here are some specific scenarios I am running into.
> 
> 1) Refrencing and derefrencing:
> For example, condsider this c api:
> 
> void foo_alloc(void** handle_ptr);
> void foo_use(void* handle);
> 
> In c &handle.  How to get pointer to pointer in Python?
> In c *handle_ptr.  How to derefrence a pointer in Python?

You can use typemaps to ensure "void** handle_ptr" as an
argument becomes a "return value" (some opaque representation
of the resulting void*) in Python, and you'll just pass that
opaque value back into foo_use, no need to dereference.


> 2) Coercion:
> For example, suppose you want to initialize a char array in Python.
> 
> buf = CharArray(100)
> for i in range(100):
>    buf[i] = i
> 
> The above results in:
> "TypeError: CharArray___setitem__() argument 3 must be char, not int"
> In c, buf[i] = (char)i, is implicit.  How do I do it in Python.  Why
> doesn't Python make this conversion implicitly?

In Python, "a character" is "a string of length one" and implicitly
converting that to/from "an integer that happens to be the ASCII code
for that character" would be an utter, extremely error-prone design
disaster.  Use ord() if you want the ASCII code for the one and only
character in a string of length 1, chr() if you want to make a string
of length one starting from a character's ASCII code.  [I don't know
what a CharArray _IS_, and how come you got that weird indirectness
requested, but I'm just answering your questions anyway].

 
> 3) It seems like I'm doing something unatural with my Python extension. 
> It seems someone else may have already figured out the best way to
> transform c arguments between Python and Python extensions genericly.

SWIG does a good job (for C).  Boost Python does an arguably even
better one (for C++, though -- and you do need a decently standard
compliant C++ compiler that won't choke on abstruse templates; also,
I'm not sure if Boost Python is out yet in a release supporting
Python 2.3 -- when I tried to build from the CVS sources I found
the task quite tiresome).


Alex




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep  2 16:04:30 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:04:30 -0400
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
References: <bj2nv5$hna$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <VZGcnaf8u8lSasmiXTWJhw@comcast.com>

"Stefan Fleiter" <stefan.fleiter at web.de> wrote in message
news:bj2nv5$hna$1 at news.web.de...

> under Python 2.2.2:
>
>  >>> s = slice(None,5,None)
>  >>> hash(s)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unhashable type
>  >>> s.__hash__()
> 136775584
>
> Can anybody explain this?

It looks like a bug.  Extended slices were added for use by Numerical
Python.  It may never have tried to hash them or only done so only
through the C equivavlent of s.__hash__.  Extended slicing of
sequences was, I believe, only added in 2.3.

TJR





From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 16 20:49:29 2003
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 17:49:29 -0700
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
References: <8e6e8e5d.0309111939.4f1bf1d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8e6e8e5d.0309161649.4c9f905f@posting.google.com>

I am planning on going forward in several ways, and I would appreciate
any feedback on which directions seem most worthwhile.

1. I plan to do a full GUI version of the entire program using
PythonCard. I also, eventually plan to do an alternative GUI version
(or two), certainly one using Jython and SWING (so I can make a
self-installing GUI version for my Sharp Zaurus). I have also loaded
PyQt on my Zaurus, but I find Jython and SWING to be easier for me to
learn and use. Maybe a PyQt version will follow, and I would also like
to do a Tkinter version for comparison purposes. I may use EasyGui to
create a simple Tkinter version, and I will probably do an AnyGui
version. Another Sharp Zaurus user has reported getting an AnyGui
program working fine on his Zaurus (AnyGui uses the QT tool kit on the
Zaurus).

2. I plan to use NLQ, a Python natural language processor module, to
allow Merlin to choose appropriate possible options, or answers, to
users' questions, and then applying the standard askMerlin web
scraping algorithm to decide which possible answer is best. I have
preliminary versions of this working, but not yet posted, because it
doesn't choose good enough options yet, but I think I have figured out
ways to improve it. Next, I plan to make a more interactive and
versatle version of general decision analysis and askmerlin that will
flexibly adapt to a user's entries, answering a user's random question
most optimally, whether the user just asks a question and gives no
options, criteria, or weights, or whether the user gives any given
combination of the above. In other words, instead of making the user
declare upfront how much information she has to offer, it might seem
more fluid to the user to use one generic module that answers
questions regardless of how much information is given, although of
course the quality of the program's answers will tend to be better
when the user gives more information up front.

3. Concerning the web scraper algorithm used in askmerlin, I am
thinking about some ideas to do a version that will automatically
track trends on the web over time, graphing the output, in response to
specific user questions.

4. I want to do an online version the whole program, by making a
server-side version of askMerlin. Probably starting with a simple CGI
version, the idea will be to post the program on my website, and allow
a user to interact over the web; but this will also lead to the
storage of the sessions, allowing a database to be built up which
tracks user inputs, especially on scoring the various options for each
criteria. Picture this with respect to the election.py module. For a
given election, say the 2004 USA Presidential election, once we are
down to 2 or 3 candidates for the general election next November. As
each user enters their scores for each candidate on each criteria, not
only will they get an immediate response to the over all score of each
candidate based on their responses, but more significantly the
database can tally all users scores and average them, and plot the
results over time. I suspect that, for a website with enough users,
the data so generated could be valuable. My site currently gets about
10,000 unique visitors per month. If a site could get 1,000 users of
election.py (online version) per month, this might usefully supplement
the official Zogby and Gallup type "polls". No, the users would not be
scientifically sampled and randomly selected, and probably a site
would need to have, say, 100,000 unique visitors per month in order to
get 1000 to actually do the election.py online, in order to get useful
results. But still it is interesting to me, and it shouldn't be that
hard to make such an online server side version of election.py, or so
I figure. ;-))))

5. I will no doubt add at least a few new modules on new topic areas
to Decision Analysis. Of course, my biggest hope is that others will
do such additions and share them with me ;-)))


Any other ideas would be appreciated. Meanwhile, I would be interested
if anyone would offer thoughts on which of the 5 directions for future
activity sound most interesting.

Ron Stephens
http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 30 03:02:06 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:02:06 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
References: <mailman.1064865111.3887.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blb9se$87s$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> Note that all three versions will not work with submodules, e. g.
> "os.path",
>> so let's change it one more (last?) time:
>> 
>> def getClass(classname, modulename):
>>     return getattr(__import__(modulename, globals(), locals(),
> [classname]),
>> classname)
> 
> Thanks, Peter, you finally put me on the right track with regards to
> importing from packages, with that __import__ builtin. Been fighting
> that for a month now, on and off. FWIW, I took your example and expanded
> it into a cookbook recipe, replacing my older, much uglier solution:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/223972

Robert, 

note that module names are stored fully qualified in sys.modules so the try
clause in your will always fail with modules like os.path. I have injected
a print statement into your code that should make that clear.

#your code with additional print statement
import sys

def get_func(fullFuncName):
    """Dynamically load a module and retrieve reference to the function."""

    # Parse out the path, module, and function
    atoms = fullFuncName.split(".")
    funcName = atoms.pop()
    moduleName = atoms.pop()
    tPath = ".".join(atoms)

    # See if the module has already been imported. If not, import it.
    try:
        aMod = sys.modules[moduleName]
    except KeyError:
        print "importing", fullFuncName
        if len(atoms) > 0:
            aMod = __import__(tPath + "." + moduleName,
                              globals(), locals(), [''])
        else:
            aMod = __import__(moduleName, globals(), locals())
    aFunc = getattr(aMod, funcName)

    # Assert that the function is a *callable* attribute.
    if not callable(aFunc): raise ImportError(fullFuncError)

    # Return a reference to the function itself,
    # not the results of the function.
    return aFunc

# simple test case
for i in range(2):
    x = get_func("os.path.split")
print x("/home/user/file.txt")

get_func("os.sep") # fails, because fullFuncError is not defined


__import__() does a lookup in sys.modules so that you need not recode it. To
achieve the functionality you want it should be sufficient
to just split module1.module2.func in two parts module1.module2 and func.

#untested
def get_func1(fullName):
    pos = fullName.rfind(".")
    if pos == -1:
        result = getattr(sys.modules["__main__"], fullName)
    else:
        moduleName = fullName[:pos]
        funcName = fullName[pos+1:]
        result = getattr(__import__(moduleName, globals(), locals(),
        [funcName]), funcName)
    if not callable(result):
        raise ImportError(fullName + " is not callable")
    return result

Maybe you should raise a TypeError rather than an ImportError to indicate
that what is expected to be a function is not callable.

Peter



From sketerpot at chase3000.com  Thu Sep 11 19:30:18 2003
From: sketerpot at chase3000.com (Peter Scott)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 16:30:18 -0700
Subject: Parsing XML streams
Message-ID: <659f82ff.0309111530.c17e4a6@posting.google.com>

I have a program that listens on an IRC channel and logs everything to
XML on standard output. The format of the XML is pretty
straightforward, looking like this:

<channel name='#sandbox'>
    <message user='PeterScott'>Hello, my bot</message>
    <message user='PeterScott'>This is a message</message>
    <nickchange>
        <oldnick>PeterScott</oldnick>
        <newnick>PeterSc</newnick>
    </nickchange>
</channel>

I'm writing another program that should parse that sort of XML on its
stdin, printing out a more user-friendly representation. For this, I
need to parse the XML as it comes in, not all at once.

I wrote a parser using xml.sax, and it works well---provided that I
read in the whole document. However, I want to be able to just read
the XML piece by piece, calling event handlers whenever something
happens and waiting for more to happen.

Is there some way to do this with the standard python xml parsers?
Will I need to use PyXML? Or what?

Thanks,
-Peter



From timr at probo.com  Wed Sep 17 01:37:08 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:37:08 -0700
Subject: wanted($):  mac and linux python gui coders for porting
References: <EHr9b.36540$n94.18214@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <8dsfmvo15uftg7qvc0oivmsg6eeeqelvtm@4ax.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> wrote:
>
>I have written a simple windows shareware app, EzPicMailer, in Python 2.3,
>wxPython 2.4.1, and PIL 1.1.4  that lets computer novices find photo files,
>edit them, and mail them, all in one simple app.  Everyone is encouraged to
>check out my beta version at http://EzPicMailer.com.
>...
>Now I need a Mac programmer and a Linux programmer to port to these
>environments for me.

wxPython works identically in all three environments.  I'd be surprised if
you had to make more than trivial changes.  Plus, if you just released your
source code, others would be happy to make the changes for you, in exchange
for readme credit.

>I'm new to shareware but I'm guessing that paying 10%
>of gross license receipts would be fair.  I put in close to 200 hours into
>the app and I'm assuming that 20 hours to do a decent looking port would be
>about right, which gives 10% of the effort.  Let me know if I'm off-base
>here.

The problem is that 10% of your shareware revenue stream is likely to come
to approximately $1 per month.

Further, the shareware revenue stream from your Linux port is almost
certainly going to be $0 per month.  Linux users do not pay for software
tools like this.  There's just too much outstanding stuff available for
free.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From maney at pobox.com  Fri Sep 19 11:21:52 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:21:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <1679b.687$Ie5.85963@news20.bellglobal.com> <bkbfh1$8il$3@wheel2.two14.net> <9qwab.34045$KW1.8747@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bkf6ug$qpo$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Paul Paterson <paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> I think that the other drawback is that it only works at the top level of a
> module.

Yeah, it comes back to me now.  So there's still nothing but ugly
and/or dangerous workarounds when you need to use a function's result
in a conditional as well as later on.  Pytho is such a pleasant
language 95% of the time that the nastiness of the corner cases seems
worse than they rationally warrant - or maybe not, since these warts
tend to drop me out of flow and cost a lot more time than just
remebering the way(s) to hack around them.

> I guess you might call "a.f_locals.update(kw)" a no-(side)-effect assignment

Sure 'nuff.  Pity, it was otherwise quite a nice answer to what seems
to be an endlessly recurring issue.

-- 
Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity
of the winner of this year's presidential election, the identity
of the loser is perfectly clear.  It is the nation's confidence
in the judge as an impartial guardian of the law.
 - Justice John Paul Stevens, from his dissenting opinion Dec 12, 2000



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 10 14:55:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:55:26 -0400
Subject: sort by file/directory
References: <9d302332.0309101042.2c0d12c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F739E.54156AC@engcorp.com>

Mike Zupan wrote:
> 
> I have a list that includes files and directories
> 
> ie: list = ['file', 'file2', 'dir1','file3','dir2' ]
> 
> I want to sort it so it looks like this
> 
> ['dir1', 'dir2', 'file1','file2','file3' ]
> 
> I'm just wondering if there is an easy way to do this

For the above list, executing .sort() would give the correct
result, but presumably you meant for this to work in a more
general manner.

Here's one way to do it, using the Decorate-Sort-Undecorate
pattern that should be familiar to all Python programmers:

(Untested code... likely to have various small errors, left
as an exercise for the reader. :-)

# best to avoid using the name "list" as it conflicts with
# a name in the built-in module
names = [ fill in your own data here ]

import os
sortme = []
for name in names:
    # only works if names are absolute, or in current directory
    # you probably have some other way to tell whether 
    # something is a folder, but the key thing is to 
    # form a tuple with 0 for directories, 1 for files, then
    # the name
    sortme.append((not os.path.isdir(name), name))

sortme.sort()    # in-place sort, of course!

# remove "decoration" which forced the sort to put directories
# first, leaving just the names
names = [item[1] for item in sortme]

-Peter



From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Thu Sep  4 08:11:54 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 05:11:54 -0700
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.09.03.23.24.03.438382@harobed.org>
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309040411.62f8d20b@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all.

To:John J.Lee
I download 'venster' and test a small samples. I think it's good idea 
for python GUI.
I has use MFC, but I don't like MFC framework. but I like VENSTER's 
way. I only need
make GUI by VC. and write code in python . that code very clear and 
obvious. I'll test
for complete project. anyone has make project to do it?   thank you.

To: Mark Roach

I has read this article. It's same as my idea. But the code sample is 
make a foo button
in wxWindows ,use swig link to wxpython. I don't know if I make a frame 
in wxWindows.
Can I use it in wxPython.  Who test it?  thank you.

To:Jim Dabell 

I download pyQt ,But I hasn't test it. QT is C++ GUI framework. It's 
very cool too.

To:Brian Kelley

sorry about my poor english.
I say 'slow'. It's mean wxPython application start up very slow and use 
big memory.
core python code very quick. I use thread. Because Bit-torrent is a P2P 
program.
it's have many intercurrent internet connection for download and 
upload.

>>I'll assume that your bit-torrent code has a pretty simple interface, 
>>such as "download this file to here", "I'm X percent done" and 
"cancel 
>>the download"
~~~~~ you are right. I only need get these information from bit-torrent 
.
It's use a function to communicate with GUI and core program.

If you should post you code . I very thank you. I like study with you. 
thank you.

To:Harobed 
I didn't test pyGTK. thank you.
You know I very care speed and use in WIN32,I hear GTK very slow.

my BitTorrent client (ourbt) download address

ftp://ourbt:ourbt at 211.90.187.42:2111/ourbtsetupen.exe

After you use it,you will know what i need. :)

Ulysses



From theller at python.net  Fri Sep 26 16:09:28 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:09:28 +0200
Subject: py2exe, 2.3 and services (raising flag again)
References: <mailman.1064601277.12630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <brt7b9c7.fsf@python.net>

"Brad Clements" <bkc at Murkworks.com> writes:

> Now that Thomas is back from vacation ;-)
>
> I cannot get the example service to work using Python 2.3 and the latest
> released py2exe (or the cvs version) on Win2k SP3. I can run the sample
> service .py file ok, but once it's inside a py2exe generated exe.. no
> working. The error in the event log is:
>
> The description for Event ID ( 240 ) in Source ( MyService ) cannot be
> found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or
> message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. The following
> information is part of the event: 1063, The service process could not
> connect to the service controller..

There's a new py2exe version in the works, it is in the CVS sandbox
subdirectory.  If you want it, I can mail you a binary for testing.

Thomas



From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 15:46:19 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:46:19 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
In-Reply-To: <v029nv4ohqofkcggbcrtehl9j1v3dgjid0@4ax.com>
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <3F745445.D9628351@engcorp.com> <zM_cb.75296$PD3.4794304@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <v029nv4ohqofkcggbcrtehl9j1v3dgjid0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <gI0db.75338$PD3.4794804@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Stephen Horne wrote:
> Basically, when I need to break an expression over multiple lines, the
> odds are that it already has parentheses anyway. And I wouldn't indent
> that way anyway, I'd do it as...
> 
> a = (  firstitem
>      + seconditem
>      + (  thirditem
>         * fourthitem
>        )
>     )

Didn't know about that possibility; I though it would assign a one 
element tuple.  I just read that a one-element tuple is written (x,). 
Everything's fine now, thx ;)

Nicolas




From kpaz at samorzad.pw.edu.pl  Fri Sep 26 12:21:27 2003
From: kpaz at samorzad.pw.edu.pl (Krzysztof Pa¼)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:21:27 +0200
Subject: Python SSL Socket Client to Java SSL Server. HELP me PLEASE.
Message-ID: <bl1otq$6vh$1@korweta.task.gda.pl>

Hi,
I want to make simple client in phyton, which would be able to communicate
with Java server using SSL sockets.
There is the Java clients, which is doing this - so I'm pretty sure, that
Java server works OK.

I've heard, that P2.3 has SSL support included in himself and also, I was
trying P2.2 with pyOpenSSL wrappers and extensions, but unsuccesfuly...

So, could you give me a few lines of python code which makes such things:
1. Importing nessesary libraries,
2. Connects to specified server and port with SSL socket (no cert.
validation is needed - just using server cert. to encrypt transmission),
3. Sends some string to server (something like command "GET_VER"),
4. Reads answer from server (it could be something similar to Java
Object... - Java strings, arrays of bytes, etc),
5. Prints this answer in human readable manner in console,
6. Disconnect from server.

It would be nice, if this code will use only opensource or freeavailable
soft/libs and Python 2.2 or 2.3.

-- 
Greetings from Poland,
Krzysztof Pa?.





From schwerdy at web.de  Thu Sep 11 04:08:07 2003
From: schwerdy at web.de (schwerdy)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 01:08:07 -0700
Subject: file.close() freezes my script
References: <c498bc9a.0309050041.3cc0a254@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062795789.26260.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c498bc9a.0309110008.19c7b913@posting.google.com>

Thank you for your answer

Bob Halley <halley at play-bow.org> wrote in message 
> This sounds like a classic pipe deadlock.

I didn't have the time so far to do a workaround, but I'll report if
fixing it succeeds.

Thanks again!

Schwerdy



From m3tr0 at dei.unipd.it  Wed Sep 10 12:09:54 2003
From: m3tr0 at dei.unipd.it (m3tr0 at dei.unipd.it)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:09:54 +0200
Subject: problem with tabnanny
Message-ID: <1063210194.3f5f4cd29c11c@mail.dei.unipd.it>

Hi to all,

tabnanny module seems not to work (at least for me)   
Please write this two lines of code in a file (i called
it test.py) 

#---------8<---- test.py -------------
        
if 1:
print "error" 

#---------8<------ end test.py -------

If I try
 
$ python test.py
File "/home/pier/test.py", line 2
    print "error"
        ^
IndentationError: expected an indented block

and this is correct. But the following
$ python /usr/lib/python2.2/tabnanny.py -v test.py
'/home/pier/test.py': Clean bill of health.

for tabnanny it's correct!?
I've tried this also with python 2.3 compiled from source
with the same results.

Any ideas
(Pease cc the mail to m3tr0 at dei.unipd.it)

Best regards

Pier Carteri


-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/




From dheld at codelogicconsulting.com  Sat Sep 13 03:30:52 2003
From: dheld at codelogicconsulting.com (David B. Held)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 02:30:52 -0500
Subject: Standards in Artificial Intelligence
References: <bjnqsa$snd$1@news.astound.net> <3f61f9ce@news.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <bjuh6u$bg9$1@news.astound.net>

"Arthur T. Murray" <uj797 at victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:3f61f9ce at news.victoria.tc.ca...
> "David B. Held" wrote on Wed, 10 Sep 2003:
> [...]
> > In one section, you define a core set of concepts (like
> > 'true', 'false', etc.), and give them numerical indexes.
>
> http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/variable.html#nen -- yes.

Brittle.  Language-specific.  Non-scalable.  You are trying
to build something "intelligent", aren't you?

> > Then you invite programmers to add to this core by using
> > indexes above a suitable threshold, as if we were defining
> > ports on a server. [...]
>
> http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/newcept.html#analysis
> explains that Newconcept calls the English vocabulary
> (enVocab) module to form an English lexical node for any
> new word detected by the Audition module in the stream of
> user input.

Besides the fact that the "enVocab" module is embarrassingly
underspecified, the notion of indexing words is just silly.  If
a dictionary were a database, it might be a reasonable idea.
But trying to simulate human speech with a database-like
dictionary is the way of symbolic AI, and the combinatorial
nature of language is going to rear its ugly head when you try
to scale your system to realistic proportions.  Hence, why
programs like SHRDLU were good at their blocks worlds,
but terrible at everything else.  Again, a little history would
do you well.  If you want to refer to your text, let's take a
quick look at something you wrote:

    6.4. Introduce aspects of massively parallel ("maspar")
    learning by letting many uniconceptual filaments on the
    mindgrid coalesce into conceptual minigrids that
    redundantly hold the same unitary concept as a massively
    parallel aggregate with massively parallel associative tags,
    so that the entire operation of the AI Mind is massively
    parallel in all aspects except such bottleneck factors as
    having only two eyes or two ears -- in the human tradition.

Umm...pardon me, but the emperor is wearing no clothes.
"uniconceptual filaments"?  "comceptual minigrids"?
"massively parallel aggregate"?  Where is the glossary for
your pig Latin?  How on earth is a programmer supposed
to build a computational model from this fluff?  Read your
mind?  She certainly can't read your text.  This sounds more
like a motivational speech from a pointy-haired boss in a
Dilbert strip than instructions for how to build an "AI Mind".
I would parody it, but you've done a fine job yourself.  Here's
the real cheerleading right here:

    Then go beyond human frailties and human limitations
    by having any number ad libitum of local and remote
    sensory input devices and any number of local and
    remote robot embodiments and robotic motor
    opportunities. Inform the robot of human bondage in
    mortal bodies and of robot freedom in possibilities yet
    to be imagined.

Wow.  I have a warm fuzzy feeling inside.  I think I'll stay
up another hour writing more of the Sensorium module.

> > [...] At one point, you address programmers who might
> > have access to a 64-bit architecture.  Pardon me, but
> > given things like the "Hard Problem of Consciousness",
> > the size of some programmer's hardware is completely
> > irrelevant. [...]
>
> http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/standard.html#hardware
> (q.v.) explains that not "the size of some programmer's
> hardware" counts but rather the amount of memory
> available to the artificial Mind.

The amount of memory is completely irrelevant, since you
have not given enough detail to build a working model.  It's
like me saying: "If you have a tokamak transverse reactor,
then my spaceship plans will get you to Alpha Centauri in
8 years, but if you only have a nuclear fission drive, then it
will take 10.  Oh and drop your carrots and onions in this
big black kettle I have here."  Also, the memory space of a
single processor really isn't that important, since a serious
project would be designed to operate over clusters or grids
of processors.  But I suppose it never occurred to you that
you might want an AI brain that takes advantage of more
than one processor, huh?  I suppose you think the Sony
"Emotion Engine" is what Lt. Cmdr. Data installed so he
could feel human?

> The Mentifex AI Mind project is extremely serious and
> ambitious.

There's no doubt it's ambitious.  And I have no doubt that
you believe you have really designed an AI mind.  However,
I also believe you hear voices in your head and when you
look in the mirror you see a halo.  Frankly, your theory has
too much fibre for me to digest.

> Free-lance coders are morking on it in C++ and other
> languages:

If I knew what "morking" was, I would probably agree.
However, your first example of someone "morking" on it in
C++ tells me that "morking" isn't really a good thing.  At
least not as far as C++ goes.  Namely, it more or less proves
that the "interest" in this project mainly consists of the blind
being (b)led by the blind.

> [...]
> http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/vb.html -- see
> "Mind.VB #001" link.

This is the only sign of progress you have shown.  Without
even looking at the link, I can believe that the "VB Mind"
already has a higher IQ than you.

> AI Mind project news pervades the blogosphere, e.g. at
> http://www.alpha-geek.com/2003/09/11/perl_ai.html -- etc.

Oh, I see...so if enough people report on it, then it's "serious"
and should be taken seriously?  A lot of people reported on
cold fusion.  But I'd take the cold fusion researchers over
you any day of the week.

> The Mentifex Seed AI engenders a new species of mind at
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mindjava -- Mind2.Java --
> and at other sites popping up _passim_ on the Web.

And what, pray tell, is a "mind species"?  Is it subject to
crossover, selection, and mutation?

> AI has been solved in theory

LOL!!!!  Wow!  Whatever you're smoking, it has to be
illegal, because it's obviously great stuff!

> and in primitive, free AI source code.

Here is an example of "primitive, free AI source code":

10 PRINT "Hello, world!"

See?  It's got a speech generation and emotion engine
built right in!  And the AI is so reliable, it will never display
a bad attitude, even if you tell it to grab you a cold one
from the fridge.  It always has a cheerful, positive
demeanor.  It is clearly self-aware, because it addresses
others as being distinct from itself.  And it has a theory of
mind, because it knows that others expect a greeting when
meeting for the first time.  Unfortunately, it has no memory,
so every meeting is for the first time.  However, its output
is entirely consistent, given this constraint.  I guess I've
just proved that "AI has been solved in theory"!

> Please watch each new species of AI Mind germinate
> and proliferate.

I'm still waiting to see *your* mind germinate.  I've watched
grass grow faster.  While ad homs are usually frowned
upon, I don't see any harm when applied to someone who
cannot be reasoned with anyway.  Since you seem to have
single-handedly "solved the AI problem", I'd like to ask
you a few questions I (and I'm sure many others) have.

1) How does consciousness work?
2) Does an AI have the same feeling when it sees red
    that I do?  How do we know?
3) How are long-term memories formed?
4) How does an intelligent agent engage in abstract
    reasoning?
5) How does language work?
6) How do emotions work?

Please don't refer me to sections of your site.  I've seen
enough of your writing to know that the answers to my
questions cannot be found there.

Like a typical crackpot (or charlatan), you deceive via
misdirection.  You attempt to draw attention to all the
alleged hype surrounding your ideas without addressing
the central issues.  I challenged your entire scheme by
claiming that minds are not blank slates, and that human
brains are collections of specialized problem solvers
which must each be understood in considerable detail
in order to produce anything remotely intelligent.  You
never gave a rebuttal, which tells me you don't have one.
Why don't you do yourself a favor and start out by
reading Society of Mind, by Minsky.  After that, read
any good neurobiology or neuroscience text to see just
how "blank" your brain is when it starts out.  Pinker
has several good texts you should read.  There's a
reason why he's a professor at MIT, and you're a
crackpot trying to con programmers into fulfilling your
ridiculous fantasies.

Dave





From turner at mmedia.is  Thu Sep  4 06:37:49 2003
From: turner at mmedia.is (Douglass Turner)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 03:37:49 -0700
Subject: Using python RPM on SuSE 8.1 : No libpython.a or libpython.so present. Why?
Message-ID: <ad2ca00b.0309040237.2205af33@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to install a statistics package called RSPython that
requires a python shared library to be present on my SuSE 8.1 linux
box. My python is provide as an RPM package and as far as I can tell
there is no libpython.a or libpython.so. What gives?

How do I get these libraries on my machine?

Thank you,
Douglass Turner



From skaller at nospam.com.au  Thu Sep 11 02:52:24 2003
From: skaller at nospam.com.au (John Max Skaller)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:52:24 +1000
Subject: interscript:developers needed to take over project
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.11.06.52.21.760704@nospam.com.au>

please reply to skaller at ozemail.com.au
(I don't read this newsgroup, and the reply-to address is fake)

For some time now -- over 5 years -- I have been using the 
interscript literate programming and document generation tool 

http://interscript.sourceforge.net

for all my programming tasks, both commercial and personal.

I no longer have time to do more than cursorary maintenance
on this project, and I'm looking for some developers to take it over.
This program is written entirely in Python. 
If you're interested please mail me.

WHAT IT DOES.
-------------

Interscript allows you to package several program files in 
a single file, for example C header and implementation files.
You can also include documentation. The basic operation
is called tangling, which just extracts the program files, 
whilst the advanced operation is called weaving, which typesets
all the documentation .. including a full listing of the program
sources.

Interscript is unique in that the typesetting and extraction
commands are arbitrary Python scripts. It can therefore be used
to generate both code and documentation. You can view an interscript
source as a Python program with very long embedded strings
that's used to print out program and documentation files.

Interscript has dedicated tanglers for typesetting Python and
a number of other languages (including C, C++, Java, Perl ..).
Tanglers are plug-and-play .. you can make new ones by just dropping
a file into the right directory.

It also has plug-and-play weavers for plain text, LaTeX2e, flat HTML, and
a cross linked HTML multipage web. All formats can be generated
simultaneously, and in addition for any set of native languages.

I personally make good use of the facilities to integrate
test suites with source codes, as well as embedding all 
make scripts in interscript, usually as Python script.
[Make sucks .. Python is better :]

The basic packaging feature is that you can distribute complex
program sources as a small number of plain text files, and then
extract sources, build directories, run tests, etc, all with
a uniform distribution format. Yes I know Python has distutils,
but this system is language and platform independent -- its for
C and C++ codes as well as Python (for example).

The central core of this system has been executed millions
of times without problem. In addition I recently made a few mods
so it now works with the psyco accelerator. There are a couple of bugs
in the dependency checker, but the major work now required is:

	* upgraded support for syntax colouring non-python codes
	* upgraded widget/format controls (it does simple
		tables, but can't include pictures ..)
	* rewrite of the codes to be more efficient and more modern
	* a comprehensible manual
	* anything else you want

In addition, with a little design, the weaver and tangler modules
could become part of the standard Python distribution, as general
purpose typesetting components (with a common interface ..).

The whole program is built as a Python package with a 10 line
program harness to call the main subroutine.




From farmenta at pillardata.com  Tue Sep 16 17:16:56 2003
From: farmenta at pillardata.com (Fernando Armenta)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:16:56 -0700
Subject: Help with Python
Message-ID: <36504F2E352484458C5D574719DC8372BAC60B@caex01.trans.corp>

Hello!

 

I am new to Python and I would like to write the following code:

 

I need to check for a directory and move it to other directory if is
found.  The directory always starts with outlog.XYZ and ends in XYZ
(where XYZ are variables).  I need to use wild characters.  Here is what
I have, but is not working.  Any help would be appreciated.  

 

#Path for the file

home_trace = "/home/testeng/ca/tds/outlog.* "

 

#Path for the directory where I want to move the file

directory = "/home/testeng/ca/tds/unattached"

 

#If statement 

if os.path.exists(home_trace):

        os.system ("chmod -fR 775 outlog.* ")

        os.system ("mv outlog.* " + directory)

 

Fernando Armenta

 

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From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Sep  6 14:06:38 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:06:38 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>
 <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
 <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>
 <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <uIiW/kKkXkZE092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote previously:
|If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
|if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?

I guess the answer is that this belief is absurdly far from the truth,
so it probably cannot be "explained" in that sense.

The USA gun fatality rate is about 10.4 per 100k.  The UK has a rate
considerably below 1 per 100k.  It's true, however, that Guy Ritchie
made some violent films about brits, so maybe that's where the imagined
rates come from.

For US rate, see:

    http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10.html

I nice comparison of various countries is at:

    http://www.dvc.org.uk/~johnny/dunblane/homemain.pdf

In particular, look at the chart on p.4.  Somewhat of an anomoly is that
Switzerland, which has nearly half the gun ownership rate of USA has
less than 1/4 the gun homicide rate (still, the Swiss with their lots
more guns than UK, thereby have lots more murders than UK).  New Zealand
and Australia are lower in both rates, but the proportions are even more
skewed.

So while the mere correlation between gun ownership and gun violence is
not perfect, all those countries with vastly lower gun ownership rates
have vastly lower homicide rates.

Yours, Lulu...

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Mon Sep 29 07:20:58 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:20:58 +0200
Subject: VB6 thin client
References: <d3c9c04.0309290222.7a0c4312@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl94is$4ag$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Mark Carter wrote:
> Suppose I wanted to combine a thin client written in VB6 with a server
> on a remote machine. Since this is the python group, assume for now
> that it could be written in python (although VB6 would be a nice
> alternative). What technologies would I use?

Depends on who told you to use a thin client:
- marketing: just use the old program and *call* it a thin client.
- your professor: tell him that you abstracted the layers (presentation,
network, application, database) into abstract interfaces, which allows you
to replace each individually with the best technology available. If his golf
games are sponsored by Oracle, tell him that central servers are good
(insert 'grid computing' if your professor occasionally reads). If his golf
games are sponsored by Microsoft, tell him that many smaller servers are
cost efficient.
- your boss: ask him what is actually required of a thin client
 ** no installation (browser only)
 ** easy updatable (getting updates automatically from server)
 ** business logic written in a specific language => application server
 ** distribution of processing power (allowing cheap client machines)
- anyone else: talk of SOAP, XML-RPC, WebServices, multi tier architecture

Daniel






From max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it  Wed Sep 10 03:06:22 2003
From: max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it (Max Ischenko)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:06:22 +0300
Subject: Using Python under ASP
Message-ID: <bjmiej$ihe$1@voodoo.volia.net>

Hi,

I'm using Python under ASP env. and have a question about how to 
communicate Python snippets in different pages.

For example, I'd like to create a per-session object of class FooBar and 
be able to access it from any page. How could I do this?

I can't store anything complicated in a Session.
Someone here propose pickle/unpickle an object to the string but that 
feels like a kludge. Should I setup some global hash, keyed by SessionID 
to store data there?


TIA.

-- 
Regards, Max.




From grayshade at libero.it  Wed Sep 17 18:28:49 2003
From: grayshade at libero.it (Domenico)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 15:28:49 -0700
Subject: Simple python cgi question
References: <MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <e34e8ce6.0309171428.673276cd@posting.google.com>

> First of all, I'm not sure that the easiest way to do this is with 
> python ...

python works great as a glue language. and you can *definitely* write
that script in python.

> I'd like to set up a web page that would accept a text file, process it 
> with a local program, and then make available generated pdf and 
> postscript files for downloading.

no problem at all -- use os.system() or open a pipe via popen. then
serve a page with links to the generated files. finally (if you're a
1337 sysadmin) set up a cron job which every hour deletes .pdf and .ps
files older than (let's say) 5 minutes.

> I'd like to limit the size of the file to be uploaded.

read the file into a buffer and stop reading after reaching the size
you decide. (disclaimer: I've never done this myself ;)

domenico



From p-abel at t-online.de  Fri Sep 19 16:11:53 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 13:11:53 -0700
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
References: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com> <LIAab.7544$9G2.6227@twister.southeast.rr.com> <mailman.1063967785.18911.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0309191211.5f5e3373@posting.google.com>

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063967785.18911.python-list at python.org>...
> [Peter]
> > I wonder if the function *tell()* is not correctly implemented under win32.
> 
> [M-a-S]
> > Anyway, you program works under Windows XP/Python 2.3 as expected:
> 
> M-a-S, are you sure you saved test_data.txt with Unix line endings?  I
This is exactly the point.
It works under win32 with PC-endings, but not with Unix line endings.
The workaround is to open it in binray mode. I know there are differences
between the open-modes 'rb', 'r+b' ... but that's not the problem. Both
work fine.
> tested Peter's script under WinXP/Python2.3 as well, and it failed as
> expected (though with slightly different results):
> 
> >pythonw -u peter.py
> Filepointer:   0
> Filepointer:   8
It doesn't make any sense for me that file position results in *8* here.
The line has 10 chars: 0123456789 plus one newline which makes 11 for me
if newline is only a 0xa and 12 if newline is a 0xc, 0xa. So let's suppose
the *file(file_name).readline()* reads until it detects a 0xa and then subtracts
an os-depending number of bytes namely one for UNIX-newline and two for PC-newline.
Then it would result in 10 or 9 but never in 8. It doesn't make any sense for
me. I think it must be a bug.

> Filepointer:  20
> Filepointer:  31
> Filepointer:  50
> 
> Filepointer:   0
> Filepointer:  11
> Filepointer:  22
> Filepointer:  32
> Filepointer:  50

When the file is opened in binary mode the above output shows that python
does the right work.

Peter



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Sep 30 14:32:40 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:32:40 -0600
Subject: Registering Python 2.1.3
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030930122535.027a6b08@66.28.54.253>

I need to register Python 2.1.3 so I can, in turn, install 
sqlite-python-0.3.1.win32-py2.1.exe, so I can in turn use pysqlite with ZOPE.

Is there a way to register the python 2.1.3 that comes w/ZOPE so the 
pysqlite installer can find it? I tried regsrv32 on python.exe and on 
python21.dll to no avail.

Or is there a way to make a registry entry for Py2.1.3?

Or is there a way to run sqlite-python-0.3.1.win32-py2.1.exe and tell it 
where Python 2.1.3 is located?

Or is there a way to obtain the Windows installer for Python 2.1.3?

I can hear voices in the background saying no problem just compile the 
source, but I'm a Windows expert, and have never dealt with compiling source.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From http  Wed Sep  3 15:00:34 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 12:00:34 -0700
Subject: reading large file
References: <9bd0dd3f.0309030400.7fa2dc0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7x8yp54rzh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

g_alleon at yahoo.fr (guillaume) writes:
>   print "found %s points and %s triangles" % (nbpoints, nbtrias)
>  
>   t1 = time.time()
>   for i in range(nbpoints):

For another thing, use xrange instead of range here.



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Sep 14 19:48:08 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:48:08 -0400
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <1679b.687$Ie5.85963@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Tobiah" <toby at rcsreg.com> wrote in message
news:0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a at news.teranews.com...
> Ok,
>
> I miss the idiom that my other languages use,
> something like:
>
>
> while( foo = getmore()){
> process(foo);
> }
>
[snip]

If you must use assignments in expressions, you might find the following
recipes useful:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/202234
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66061






From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Sun Sep  7 04:11:15 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:11:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Coding Style:  Defining Functions within Methods?
References: <70df36e9.0309050837.1660cdf4@posting.google.com> <bjb0ss$nvl$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bjep73$522$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> I like defining nested functions except for the fact that a definition is executable code
> in itself, and will be re-executed each time the outer function or method is called. I'm
> not sure how long MAKE_FUNCTION or MAKE_CLOSURE take to execute, but IWT it must mean allocating
> and glueing together the dynamic elements necessary for a distinct function/closure instance,
> and then disposing of them at some point on/after their going out of scope, vs. e.g. just locating
> a sibling method.

This doesn't need to be slow--it's up to the implementation to try
to be as smart as possible.  A compiler can do lambda-lifting to
transform a program with nested functions to one without, so there
really is nothing inherently slow about nested functions.



From jakle1 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 28 20:48:29 2003
From: jakle1 at hotmail.com (Jakle)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:48:29 GMT
Subject: Recursion
Message-ID: <xjLdb.565$Vb3.450032@news1.news.adelphia.net>

Hi all. Need alittle help here. This is an example from "How to Think Like a
Computer Scientist: Learning with Python, Chapter 5".  It's an open source
ebook, so if you feel like it you can find it here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

The example uses factorials to explain more complex recursion.

"Explanation From the Book Begins Here"++++++++++++++++++

>def factorial(n):
>    if n == 0:
>        return 1
>    else:
>        recurse = factorial(n-1)
>        result = n * recurse
>        return result
>
>    The flow of execution is as follows.
>    If we call "factorial" with the value 3:
>
>    Since 3 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate the factorial
of n-1...
>        Since 2 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate the
factorial of n-1...
>            Since 1 is not 0, we take the second branch and calculate the
factorial of n-1...
>                Since 0 is 0, we take the first branch and return 1 without
making any more recusive calls.
>            The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which is 1, and the
result is returned.
>        The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which is 2, and the result
is returned.
>    The return value (2) is multiplied by n, which is 3, and the result, 6,
becomes the return value of the function that started the whole process.

"Example Ends Here"++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I thought I understood what was going on untill "Since 0 is 0...", but after
that I get lost. Where are the variables being stored.
And how does 1*1=2 ---> The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which is 1,
and the result is returned. The return value (1) is multiplied by n, which
is 2, and the result is returned.
Sorry if I explained my problem oddly. You can see the example in the above
link, under chapter 5.





From txo at cs.nott.ac.uk  Tue Sep 30 10:27:29 2003
From: txo at cs.nott.ac.uk (Turhan Ozen)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:27:29 +0100
Subject: chaco & boa constructor
Message-ID: <blc3vs$fs8$1@oyez.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>

Is chaco compatible with boa constructor?

I could not pass beyond the following error.
the instruction at "0x00f83a4b" referenced memory at "0x00000000". The 
memory could not be read.

Turhan




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 29 11:36:47 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:36:47 GMT
Subject: Question: Inheritance from a buil-in type
References: <3F7848C6.8070306@snafu.de>
Message-ID: <jkYdb.190329$R32.6133082@news2.tin.it>

T. Kaufmann wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> A simple but important question:
> 
> How can I initialize a super class (like dict) correctly in my subclass
> constructor?

Generally, you also want to override __new__ -- not in all cases can 
you do all you want in __init__ by itself (e.g., it's far too late 
when you inherit from immutable types, such as numbers, str, tuple).


> A sample:
> 
> class MyClass(dict):
>      def __init__(self):
>          dict.__init__(self)
>          ...

Yeah, you can do this, but the dict.__init__ call with just the
self parameter is actually redundant (it wouldn't be if there
WERE arguments -- either keyword ones, or a sequence of pairs,
or both -- with which to actually initialize a non-empty dict...).


> Is there a general rule to do this for all buil-in types?

Generally, the super built-in may be advisable if you think you
may ever be involved in a multiple-inheritance graph.  But that
is no different whether built-in types are involved, or not.  I'm
not sure what "general rule" may be different for built-in types
than for others -- offhand, I don't think there are such differences.


Alex




From miguel.hernandez at icr-sa.com  Wed Sep 10 03:05:59 2003
From: miguel.hernandez at icr-sa.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Miguel_Hern=E1ndez_Martos?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:05:59 +0200
Subject: FAQs in spanish
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063033454.25394.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1063033454.25394.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjmie1$67h$1@nsnmpen2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>

Batista, Facundo wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I searched for FAQs in spanish, and I didn?t found them.
> 

I think this is what you are looking for:

http://pyspanishdoc.sourceforge.net/

Nos vemos!
-- 
Miguel Hern?ndez Martos       | Ingenier?a y Control Remoto, S.A.
Departamento de Software      | Pol. Ind. Juncaril C/Baza Parc. 207
------------------------------| 18220 Albolote-Granada (Espa?a)
<miguel.hernandez at icr-sa.com> | Tels.: + 34 958 43 00 05/10
http://www.icr-sa.com         | Fax: + 34 958 46 79 08








From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Fri Sep 19 07:44:03 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 19 Sep 2003 13:44:03 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030919j5xy@bombur.uio.no>

Thanks!

-- 
Hallvard



From mack at incise.org  Tue Sep  9 15:45:08 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:45:08 -0500
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake>
References: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <20030909194508.GV16821@incise.org>

On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 09:35:30PM +0200, Marco Herrn wrote:
> I am writing a program that has to instantiate a class from which I
> don't know the name until runtime. That leads to two problems for me.
> 
> 1. How to do the import? I didn't find a way to give a string to the
>    import statement.

exec("import %s" % modulename) ?

> 2. How to write such code to instantiate?

class = getattr(modulename, classname)
or
class = globals()[classname]

and then:

an_instance = class()

Although this all seems really dirty to me.  Maybe there are better ways
to do it.

> Is it possible to say 'import * from subdirectory' ?

If the directory is a python package (has an __init__.py), then you can
do 'from directoryname import *'

-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
The one good thing about repeating your mistakes is that you know when
to cringe.




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 19:16:58 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:16:58 +0300
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <kgj3nvgn6cnp9u3f66cb2vtok697lgjt89@4ax.com> <3f721b0c-fce176ad-f4e1-4bdc-8527-cc05ef24ad42@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <nj84nvkuv0e4uivtqfhpe3nvj9vo7mcvaf@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:30:36 +0000 (UTC), rumours say that Klaus
Alexander Seistrup <spam at magnetic-ink.dk> might have written:

>> if you are not root and you are sure that your own processes
>> do not breed like rabbits, then you can be almost sure that
>> os.kill(pid, 0) will throw an EPERM if your child has died.
>
>That's too many ifs to my taste.

I agree with that --that's what the 'almost' was about.  But...

>Your own processes needn't breed like rabbits - other's processes
>can breed like rabbits, too, and if you're unlucky, your next
>spawn will have the same pid as a previous process of yours.

...here there is a little inconsistency with the flaw of this thread; I
discussed the chance of /another user's process/ using the pid of a
child between two kill(pid,0) attempts, not /another child/, because the
/original point/ was: parent process spawns a single child and then
checks for its existence (see also my mentioning of EPERM).  If anybody
mentioned multiple spawning of the parent process, I'm afraid the post
didn't show up in my newsreader.  Thus "your next spawn" seems not
relevant.

>Anyway you look at it, killing blindly is bad programming practice.

Yes, it is; I have used kill(pid,0) in the past, aware that it's a quick
and dirty solution.  Semaphores are much more safe in such a situation.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep 30 08:34:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 13:34:59 +0100
Subject: query
References: <2003929-93022-80040@foorum.com> <OSednc312rPT2-WiXTWJkw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <878yo6cv4c.fsf@pobox.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> "drn" <bmproj2003 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2003929-93022-80040 at foorum.com...
[...]
> > -----which lanuage do you suggest - c/c++ or any browser based
> > software like php/python.
> 
> Python is not browser based.  It is a complete standalone language
> just like C/C++.  It also has many free add-ons available, like
[...]

Of course, it *can* be browser-based.  Certainly MSIE, and I would
assume Mozilla too (given the existence of PyXPCOM).


John



From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Mon Sep 29 11:21:56 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 08:21:56 -0700
Subject: wxImage and Group 4 Tiffs?
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309290721.35301892@posting.google.com>

I am using wxImage to display Tiffs and it works great except that it
displays a message box for each unrecognized tag in the header. Is
there a way to suppress these message boxes.


                            Thanks Joey



From tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom  Thu Sep 18 17:57:01 2003
From: tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom (Tina Li)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:57:01 -0400
Subject: pmw MenuBar: delete all menu items of a menu
Message-ID: <3f6a2a9d$2_4@corp.newsgroups.com>

Hello,

I have a cascade menu all of whose items I want to delete. It's natural to
pick up deletemenuitems(menuname, start, end). But what would the 'end' be?
Is there a list of menu items accessible somewhere so that I can get its
size?

Thanks,

Tina



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



From python-url at phaseit.net  Tue Sep  9 00:11:29 2003
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 04:11:29 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Sep  8)
Message-ID: <vlqknh8elga293@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "Using os._exit(), on the other hand is like pulling the ejector
seat to land a plane. There's no clean-up, you just get out as fast as
possible."  -- Alan Gould commenting on alternatives to sys.exit().

"I think it's a real and fairly unique selling point for Python that it's
both easy to use and suitable for very varying and advanced applications."  
-- Magnus Lycka


Discussion
----------
    Skip Montanaro briefly states why a user could not find a static
    Python source code analysis tool for revealing caller/callee relationships:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1062967091.26128.python-list at python.org>
    
    Martin von Loewis explains why Python sequences accept negative indices:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=m33cf82zas.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
    
    Miki Tebeka posts an introductory Python slideshow that incorporates
    feedback from reviewers on comp.lang.python:
        <http://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~tebeka/Geek/pyintro.pdf>
    
    David Mertz gathers feedback for an upcoming article on the best Python
    IDEs.  The resulting thread is highly informative about the strengths and
    weaknesses of various products:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=2c8bef8df221f515>
    
    Martin von Loewis briefly demonstrates how to create an object that
    compares larger than all other objects:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?f&selm=bj84rl%24j2c%2407%244 at news.t-online.com>
    
    Cameron Laird explains how to implement drag-and-drop in Tkinter:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=vle0j01npmca27 at corp.supernews.com>
    
    Stefan Fleiter noticed an anomaly in the implementation of slice.__hash__()
    The important part of the thread is that after confirming that this was not
    desired behavior, he posted a bug report, and it was promptly fixed.  
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=58171dab2279a6c6>
    
    Howard Lightstone asks for and gets advice an how to internationalize an
    existing python application:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=34ed230b16a28e01>
    
    Does Python 2.3 matter?  Yes.
	http://www.byte.com/documents/byt1062182129207/
    
    Skip Montanaro setup a wiki so that the community can participate in
    creating a glossary of key python terminology.
        <http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary>

    This week's ideas for changing the language:
        * make the "self" method argument implicit
    
Releases
--------
    PyRSS2Gen - RSS 2.0 generator for Python
        <http://www.dalkescientific.com/Python/PyRSS2Gen.html>
    
    Naja 0.8.5 - download manager and a website grabber
        <http://www.keyphrene.com/products/naja>
    
    BTManager 1.0.7 - a BitTorrent download manager and client, written in pure
        Python and based on the current BitTorrent official implementation.
        <http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/btmanager/>
    
    dnspython 1.2.0b1 - a DNS toolkit for Python. It supports almost all record
        types and can be used for queries, zone transfers, and dynamic
        updates.  It supports TSIG authenticated messages and EDNS0.
        <http://www.dnspython.org/>
    
    pygantt-0.9.2 - tool tranforming XML project task descriptions into
        Gantt charts.
        <http://www.logilab.org/projects/pygantt>
    
    HarvestMan 1.2alpha - a full-featured, multithreaded, multiprotocol,
        customizable web crawler written in python.
        <http://sithara.freezope.org/harvestman/source>
    
    MojoView 1.0 - Python package for building simple gui database applications
        using PyGTK2.
        <http://www.netpromi.com/files/MojoView-1.0.zip>
    

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From indigomoon at bonbon.net  Wed Sep 24 03:12:16 2003
From: indigomoon at bonbon.net (Indigo Moon Man)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:12:16 -0600
Subject: float problem
References: <bkrai0$50pag$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de> <9nacb.1214$NX3.946@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bkrgaa$51ksg$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>

Greg Krohn <ask at me.com> spake thusly:
>
> Normally division with integers gives an integer result losing everything
> after the decimal. Couple of things you can do about that, but basically
> you have to convert your denominator or divisor to a float before you
> divide:
>
That's great!  Thank you very much for your help!

-- 
Audio Bible Online:
http://www.audio-bible.com/





From avera at coes.org.pe  Wed Sep 17 18:56:22 2003
From: avera at coes.org.pe (Alberto Vera)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:56:22 -0500
Subject: database
Message-ID: <000c01c37d6e$ea03d4a0$1603a8c0@pc22>

Hello:

Do you have any example about how access to a database using ODBC or native driver?

Regards
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From rune.froysa at usit.uio.no  Wed Sep 24 17:34:01 2003
From: rune.froysa at usit.uio.no (Rune Froysa)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 23:34:01 +0200
Subject: Memory profiling
Message-ID: <svlisnh3m7q.fsf@dresden.uio.no>

I have a fairly large program that uses a number of third-party
modules.  After a few hours the program eats several 100M of memory.

Does Python provide any tools that can help in determining where the
memory is used?  Ideally, I would like to see a tool that can list all
objects by memory-usage, but any tool that can return the number of
bytes used by an arbitrary object would be of great help.  Even
something that could find all allocated dicts&lists and return their
size+name would help.

Regards,
-- 
Rune Fr?ysa
University of Oslo, Norway



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Sep 29 06:14:35 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 12:14:35 +0200
Subject: Now that rexec is gone...
References: <XA8db.597231$o%2.276974@sccrnsc02> <QXWdndTwwa-egeiiU-KYvg@comcast.com> <2Wkdb.599238$YN5.441102@sccrnsc01>
Message-ID: <tyfn0cnaol0.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

"Rainer Deyke" <rainerd at eldwood.com> writes:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
> > Suggest you google last year of c.l.py for 'rexec'.  Also check out
> > py-dev summaries of last fall for discussion of why removed.
> 
> I see... It turns out that, short of modifying the Python interpreter, there
> is no way to get real security.  '"".__class__' gives access to 'str', 'str'
> gives access to 'object', and 'object' gives access to 'file'.

A message-id, or similar, at this point, could save future googlers a
lot of time ...



From user at exemple.net  Fri Sep 19 15:49:34 2003
From: user at exemple.net (Salvatore)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:49:34 +0200
Subject: Grail
Message-ID: <bkfmis$mm7$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>

Hi All,

Does anybody get an operationnal version of Grail
which turn on windows ?

Regards

Salvatore






From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Sep 27 07:07:20 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:07:20 +0200
Subject: unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <bl3r3r$dno$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Rune Hansen wrote:

>  >>> unicode("Gratis ?l","iso-8859-1")
> u'Gratis \xf8l'
>  >>>ord("\xf8")
> 248
> 
> What I need is the converted string to read u'Gratis \248l' (*
> How do I do this without going through each and every character of the
> string?
> (not that I have figgured out how to do that right either)

I see your problem is already solved, just want to add that normally (read:
C and Python) the backslash notation is base 8 not base 10.

>>> ord("\248")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found
>>> oct(248)
'0370'
>>> ord("\370")
248
>>>

Peter



From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Wed Sep 24 13:32:36 2003
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:32:36 -0700
Subject: Announcement: ActiveState acquired by Sophos
Message-ID: <3F71D534.3010101@ActiveState.com>

To the Python community --

As some of you have heard by now, ActiveState was acquired
yesterday by Sophos Plc, a UK-based global anti-virus company, as
described in this press release:

	http://www.activestate.com/Corporate/Communications/Releases/Press1064364490.html

and in this open letter to ActiveState customers:

	http://www.activestate.com/corporate/letter/.

I figure that many of you who know about ActiveState's background in the
open source community probably have questions regarding what this means
for ActiveState's future, and the future of Python at ActiveState.

In short, there is no downside, only great opportunities.

What will not change:

    - Our line of tools, language distributions and enterprise
      support for open source programming languages will continue
      to be developed and evolve with customer needs.
    - Our involvement in the open source language communities
      will continue as before.
    - All of the ActiveState staff is retained in the acquisition.
    - The Vancouver, BC office is poised to expand, not shrink.
    - Email addresses, phone numbers, etc. will continue to
      function as before.

What will change:

    - ActiveState will now have a broader global impact and access
      to the resources of a larger company with a great deal of
      experience helping businesses secure their networks.
    - Our PureMessage anti-spam product will be integrated with
      the Sophos MailMonitor product and be sold as Sophos
      PureMessage, while the rest of our product line will
      still be sold under the ActiveState banner.
    - ActiveState is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sophos,
      with a focused mission to providing tools and services
      for users of open source programming languages.

I want to point out to this audience in particular that the acquisition
of ActiveState is a success story for open source programming
technologies.  It is in part thanks to our use of programming languages
like Perl, Python and Tcl _and_ to our involvement in the programming
communities around these languages that we've been able to quickly build
and sell enterprise-grade software such as PureMessage, as well as very
successful programming tools like Komodo, the Perl Dev Kit, etc.  I'm
glad to say that Sophos appreciates this and is looking to expand the
use of these technologies in the larger company, not shrink it.  Score
one for the good guys!

While I have to get back to work (on the usual things, like adding Python features to Komodo, help plan the next release of ActivePython, help plan for PyCon 2004, iron out legal issues for the PSF and a few other things like that), I'll be monitoring these lists, and welcome email questions as well -- send them to me at DavidA at ActiveState.com.

Cheers, and see you all at PyCon 2004!

-- David Ascher
   ActiveState, a division of Sophos








From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 18:14:08 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 23:14:08 +0100
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com> <bjdm21$nr2$1@wheel2.two14.net> <mailman.1062908472.9309.python-list@python.org> <DGB6b.24532$hE5.902016@news1.tin.it> <m3smn8qxrw.fsf@gull.eos.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <87brtwjlfz.fsf@pobox.com>

Philip Austin <paustin at eos.ubc.ca> writes:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> > Gould is a great writer, even though in his later works he often gives in to
> > unstructured rambling (I can of course well sympathize with THAT 
> > temptation:-) -- Dawkins, IMHO, isn't, even though in "The selfish gene" he

Seems we have different metrics... I don't read science books (even
popular ones) for pretty prose ;-)  As a result, I regard Dawkins'
writing as the more elegant, useful, and fun of the two, thanks to its
extreme clarity.

[...]
> > presented by a truly great writer, try Matt Ridley -- "Genome", "Origins of
> > Virtue", "Red Queen", all superb writing (haven't read "Nature via Nurture"
> > yet -- I'll wait for the paperback).  Not to be confused with *Mark* Ridley,
> > who also writes (quite worthwhile books and antologies) in exactly the
> > same field, mind you.
> 
> 
> See Allen Orr's New York Review of Books article for a cogent
> critique of Ridley's "Nature via Nurture":
> 
> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16522

Can't resist mentioning (even though I haven't read it yet) "The Blank
Slate" by Steven Pinker.  Pinker's writing is Dawkins + jokes :-)


John



From qwerty at tiscalimail.nl  Wed Sep 17 07:49:36 2003
From: qwerty at tiscalimail.nl (Michael)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:49:36 +0200
Subject: scp in python
Message-ID: <bk9ho8$hau$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

Is there a scp (ssh) written in Python ?

Regards,

Michael





From pycon at python.org  Thu Sep 25 20:23:55 2003
From: pycon at python.org (PyCon Chair)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:23:55 -0400
Subject: PyCon Announcement: Mitch Kapor is opening keynote speaker
Message-ID: <20030926002355.GA10224@panix.com>

[Apologies to people who see this twice; there was a glitch in the
original sending.]


Mitch Kapor to Keynote PyCon DC 2004
------------------------------------
Washington, DC, September 24, 2003

The Python Software Foundation announced today that Mitch Kapor will be
the opening keynote speaker for their second US Python community
conference next March.

Mr. Kapor is well known as a co-founder of Lotus Development Corporation
and as a co-founder and the first chairman of the San Francisco-based
Electronic Freedom Foundation, and has been an active entrepreneur in
information technology for many years.

More recently he founded the Open Software Applications Foundation
(OSAF - see http://www.osafoundation.org/). The OSAF is using Python to
build Chandler, an open source Personal Information Manager.

PyCon is a community-oriented conference for developers of Python
applications and for those with an interest in the development of the
Python programming language.  It offers the opportunity to learn about
significant advances in Python's uses and development community, to
participate in a programming sprint with some of the leading minds in
the Open Source community, and to meet fellow developers from around the
world.  The organizers work to make the conference affordable and
accessible to all.

Pycon DC 2004 will be held March 24-26, 2004 in Washington, D.C. There
will be a four-day development sprint before the conference.

Volunteers interested in helping to run PyCon should subscribe to the
organizers mailing list at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-organizers

Don't miss any PyCon announcements!  Subscribe at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-announce

You can discuss PyCon with other interested people by subscribing at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pycon-interest

The central resource for PyCon DC 2004 is
http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan




From xy at nikolaidis.com  Sun Sep 28 22:28:30 2003
From: xy at nikolaidis.com (Peter Nikolaidis)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:28:30 -0400
Subject: MySQLdb installed, won't connect on OSX
In-Reply-To: <t9fb41-h54.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <9D95A490-F224-11D7-9CB8-00039393C622@nikolaidis.com>

>> running install
>> running build
>> running build_py
>> not copying CompatMysqldb.py (output up-to-date)
>> not copying _mysql_exceptions.py (output up-to-date)
>> not copying MySQLdb/__init__.py (output up-to-date)
>> not copying MySQLdb/converters.py (output up-to-date)
>
>         <snip>
>
>         Well, my first thoughts would be to remove the destinations 
> files, so
> that the build/install doesn't find "up-to-date" versions of files...
> Then force a build of everything...

Hello and thanks for the reply.

	I gave that a try, started everything from scratch, with only my 
directories under /sw/include/mysql and /sw/lib/mysql specified in my 
include_dirs and library_dirs variables in setup.py.

	I still get the following when trying to connect:

   File "/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/__init__.py", line 63, 
in Connect
     return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
   File "/sw/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line 
116, in __init__
     self.converter[types.StringType] = self.string_literal
TypeError: object does not support item assignment

	Any further suggestions?

Thanks,

Petre





From park997 at aol.comnotospam  Tue Sep 16 08:23:04 2003
From: park997 at aol.comnotospam (Park997)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 12:23:04 GMT
Subject: irritating problem
References: <3F6621C3.56525D6B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030916082304.23750.00000749@mb-m22.aol.com>

>Can you select Properties for that icon and change it so it doesn't close
>the window automatically when the program terminates?
>
>Or is this just using the default settings after you've installed Python,
>in which case it's being run using the assocation for the .py file extension?
>In that case, you should go to Explorer, under View->Folder Options.  Then
>click the File Types tab, scroll down until you find the entry for the Python
>files (make sure you use .py or .pyw as appropriate), then click on Edit,
>then on Run in the Actions area, then on Edit.  You should then see, in about
>
>the 19th dialog that has popped up (isn't Windows wonderful?! Truly those at 
>Microsoft are masters of good user interface design!), the actual command
>that is being executed when you click on the icon.  I suspect it uses the
>directory that the .py file is in as the current directory, and it should
>show an absolute path to where it thinks Python should be, then something
>like "%1" %* which roughly means execute the file using the exact command
>plus the filename in quotation marks.  I suspect the %* does nothing in most
>cases.
>
>If you can then go to the DOS prompt in the same directory, and type the
>same command, and everything works.... well then you've got a problem on
>your hands, don't you?  ;-)  (But let us know more, then, as there are 
>doubtless other steps to take.)
>
>-Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks to everybody for the help. It turns out that there are two separate
python programs associated with the .py extention in windows. I have installed
Python 2.3 over 2.22 and 2.0 without removing any of the previous versions. 
This is a numerical program using psyco (only available with the 2.3
installation. When I comment out the psyco import, it runs the double clicked
icon OK.

Thanks again to everybody for the help.

Wendell Cropper



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Sep  5 14:33:51 2003
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:33:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Automated code generation
References: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <bjakuf$t2e$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:

>Yesterday there was an article on Slashdot:
>http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/04/1415210&mode=flat&tid=108&tid=126&tid=156

>It is about automatic code generation.

>I got interrested in the subject, did a web search, and it seems kind of 
>powerfull.

>My main interrest is web development in Zope/CMF/Plone, where there is a 
>lot of repeated code in the products. So automated code generation seems 
>like a natural fit.

>But every time I think of a use case, I immediately think of a way to do 
>it with encapsulation instead.

>Does anybody have any experience using Python and automated code 
>generation where it actually make sense?

>Or os it useless in a language as dynamic as Python?

The target language doesn't have to be the same as the implementation
language.  A short while ago I created a small code generation program that
created snippets of C code which were woven into a hand optimised C program.
The result was an extremely fast program (which it needed to be) which still
seemed to have some capabilities of the HLL I used to create it (Scheme in
this case).  I wouldn't even have attempted doing the analysis of the user
input in C but it was so trivial in Scheme I was able to add lots of extras.
It would have been a reasonable project in Python too.  I did in fact use
Python as a front end to hide what was happening.

However I would suspect there would be a lot less scope for generating Python
code.  Its dynamic and reflexive nature make it unnecessary.

Eddie



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Sat Sep 20 15:29:30 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:29:30 GMT
Subject: raw string
In-Reply-To: <petitmermet-7E9286.21104520092003@pfaff2-rz-fast.ethz.ch>
References: <petitmermet-7E9286.21104520092003@pfaff2-rz-fast.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <uU1bb.528121$Ho3.88828@sccrnsc03>

Marc Petitmermet wrote:
> I can do the following replacement:
> 
> r"kr\xdf6;ger".replace('\\','&#')
> -> 'kr&#xdf6;ger'
> 
> But how can I do this using a variable which contains the above string? 
> Obviously, the following code returns not the string with replacement 
> but the name of the variable itself:
> 
> name = "kr\xdf6;ger"
> r"name".replace('\\','&#')
> -> 'r"name"

name = r"kr\xdf6;ger"
name.replace('\\', '&#')

If you say name = "kr\xdf6;ger" without the r prefix, the \x has already 
been replaced with a single character, and there is no slash in the 
string, so it is too late to try to replace a slash with something else.

David




From claird at lairds.com  Fri Sep  5 07:17:25 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:17:25 -0000
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
References: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vlgs65mifq5i38@corp.supernews.com>

In article <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c at 4ax.com>,
Rain  <rain_anti_spam_rhb at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I do not want to lead a war on this topic, as there have been many
>arguments in Slashdot.
>
>Obviously, QT is best by now if not consider the license.
>Then after google some, I found people tend to use wxPython and pyGTK.
>
>Now I want to narrow topic and ask this question:
>Which one have a little more clear logic and easy to learn and use?
>Not considering the local platform and feeling, and the deployment.I
>know pyGTK need GTK runtime libs.
			.
			.
			.
I appreciate that you want signal, not noise, and
that you're after a better experience than with
Slashdot.  I strongly urge you to consider that
pertinent context you provide will go a looooong
way toward improving the quality of the answers 
you receive.  When you write, "Obviously, QT is
best ...", I get the feeling there's considerable
background you're not telling us.

Even in the absence of better knowledge of your
constraints and requirements, I recommend you
evaluate the native Win32 GUI toolkit.  Python
is an excellent way to access MFC.

If you are asking just for a comparison of wxPython
and pyGTK under Win* (*is* that your question?  I
have re-read it several times, and I'm still
unsure), all my experience inclines me to the 
former.  I've found pyGTK too immature under Win*.
The people who claim success with it are, from 
what I can tell, those who benefit from consider-
able prior GTK+ work.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de  Tue Sep  2 15:06:07 2003
From: a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de (Andreas Neudecker)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:06:07 +0200
Subject: Docs on speeding up Python code?
In-Reply-To: <bj2can$17ea$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <bj2can$17ea$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <bj2pmv$14ks$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Thanks for the answers. Really a very useful document.

Regards


Andreas


Andreas Neudecker wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have seen some discussions going on about making Python code faster 
> and several measures looked fairly 'esoteric' to me (i.e.: you need to 
> know a lot of background things to even KNOW about these possibilities).
> 
> Is there anywhere a concise Howto, article, PEP, whatever that describes 
> possible measures to make Python code faster (and probably 'cleaner', 
> too)? And possibly in a way, that a beginner or intermediate Python user 
> can understand? ;-)
> 
> If you know of any such docs, I would be happy if you could post some 
> links.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Andreas
> 
> 




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 02:38:14 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:38:14 +0200
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org> <slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net> <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75> <3F68AFA5.5080102@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <bkbju3$e89$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Max M wrote:

> Fred Pacquier wrote:
> 
>> Yes, that's a wonderful feature. Recently though, I've wondered a couple
>> of times : is there an easy way to substitute with both local AND global
>> variables ?...
> 
> It can often be a good idea to create an adapter/pattern for string
> substitutions. Then the wrapper can "massage" the dict values before
> they go into the string.
> 
> Here only a simple version is needed though (untested).
> 
> class Wrapper:
> 
>      def __getitem__(self, key):
>           return locals().get(key, globals[key])
> 
> 
> 'Some string sub %(some_var)s' % Wrapper()

I fear that the locals() you access with your wrapper class are the local
variables of the Wrapper.__getitem__() method. Also globals()[key] is
evaluated on *every* call of __getitem__() and thus fails if you try to
access a local variable that does not shade a global variable.
Assuming class Wrapper and client code are both in the same module, your
code is pretty much equivalent to

'Some string sub %(some_var)s' % globals()

Peter




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 21 16:32:10 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 21:32:10 +0100
Subject: math.exp(complex)
References: <eppstein-78B907.13085621092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <87brtd6fxx.fsf@pobox.com>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> writes:

> Why doesn't this work?
> 
> >>> import math
> >>> math.exp(1j*math.pi)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
[...]
> So why not math.exp(complex)?

import cmath as math

:-)


John



From Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr  Fri Sep 26 12:34:49 2003
From: Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:34:49 +0200
Subject: [ANN] logilab-common-0.3.2
Message-ID: <20030926163449.GO28349@calvin>

Logilab has released logilab-common-0.3.2

This release fixes several problems in the astng module, as well as in
the modutils module, which was partly rewritten to use a different
import mechanism. A couple a functions were added to fileutils. 

logilab-common contains some modules used by different projects released
by Logilab, including abstract syntax tree manipulation tools, database
helper functions, HTML generation, command line argument parsing,
logging, and process daemonization. 

The home page of the project is 
http://www.logilab.org/projects/common/

The source can be downloaded at
ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/common/common-0.3.2.tar.gz

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations




From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 16:00:23 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: irritating problem
In-Reply-To: <20030915150042.22749.00001062@mb-m23.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030915200024.48393.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>

You could create a shortcut to python.exe, then modify the 
shortcut, adding your script to the command line.

I'm pretty sure windows will view Python.exe as a "DOS" program,
so it in the shortcut properties box it'll have like 5 tabs 
or so.  One of them should contain a checkbox which reads something
like 'close DOS box when finished'.  Unless MS has change that dialog
in XP....

Sorry, my windoze skills are a little rusty :)

Another option might be to write a script like this:

import os, sys
f = open('outfile.txt', 'w')
for item in os.environ.items() + sys.path:
    print>>f, item
f.close()

Run the script in the 3 ways you mentioned (changing name of outfile.txt
in between runs) and then check for differences in the 3 files generated.

My guess would be it's something with sys.path, but you might
as well check environ was well :)


--- Park997 <park997 at aol.comnotospam> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a script that runs correctly in IDLE, runs correctly when invoked in the
> Command Prompt (Win XP), runs correctly from Komodo, but flashes a black box
> too fast to see when the icon is double clicked and produces no output. There
> are no error meassages from any of the methods that produce output. All of the
> other modules in the same directory (these are imported to the problem module)
> work correctly in any start mode.
> 
> python 2.3.
> 
> Obviously this isn't a disaster, but it "bugs" me. Is there a fix or method of
> obtaining diagnostic information on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Wendell Cropper
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Mon Sep 22 09:05:51 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 06:05:51 -0700
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org> <6e990e29.0309220251.51fa648d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0309220505.1da0c6cd@posting.google.com>

hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier) wrote in message news:<6e990e29.0309220251.51fa648d at posting.google.com>...
> Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> > Mutable strings are one thing that I missed, initially, when I first star
> > ted 
> > using Python.  After a while, as the "Pythonic" way of doing things sank 
> > in, 
> > I realised that Python doesn't *need* mutable strings.
> 
> Mutable strings come to *my* mind whenever I have to play with huge
> binary data.  Working with tens of megabytes is inherently somewhat
> slow.
> 

import array
x = arrray.array('c')

Pretty much creates a mutable string for these cases, although the
interface is a little different.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Sep 20 22:46:08 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:46:08 -0500
Subject: Newbie Help
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.20.14.16.57.527273@spamail.com>
References: <pan.2003.09.20.14.16.57.527273@spamail.com>
Message-ID: <20030921024608.GA15351@unpythonic.net>

On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 10:16:58AM -0400, jimbob wrote:
> Hello all,
> I am trying to move a file from one dir to another. However I keep
> receiving this error:
> 
> 
> OSError: [Errno 18] Invalid cross-device link
>  
> 
> which stemms from the code:
> 
> 
> os.rename('/home/me/%s' %z ,'/home1/pics/%s' % z)
> 
> /home1/pics is on a different dirve(hdb1) as opposed to /home which is on
> (hda1). Any ideas as to how to get around this?

It means just what it says.  os.rename() is a wrapper around the
unix rename() syscall, which fails when the files are on different
partitions.  rename() must be "atomic", but moving a file to a different
filesystem requires that the contents of the old file be read and then
written to the new file, with the original file deleted after the
write is complete. (Or, unlink the new and return an error if the copy
could not be completed)

If os.rename gives EXDEV, then you'll have to use another method.
shutil.copy() + os.unlink should do the trick.  Something like the
following (untested, so don't blame me when it unlinks the original file
without creating the new one):
    def rename(old, new):
        try:
            os.rename(old, new)
        except os.error, detail:
            if detail.errno == errno.EXDEV:
                try:
                    shutil.copy(old, new)
                except:
                    os.unlink(new)
                    raise
                os.unlink(old)
            # if desired, deal with other errors
            else: 
                raise

Jeff




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Sep 16 11:44:09 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:44:09 -0400
Subject: [newbie] File handle destroyed before pending write is executed?
References: <3f6172be.1493111@news.tijd.com> <bjrtos$brd$03$1@news.t-online.com>
 <jSHZ/ks/KvcQ089yn@the-wire.com> <bk20ru$edg$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <J/yZ/ks/K7NP089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <bk20ru$edg$01$1 at news.t-online.com>,
Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>Mel Wilson wrote:
>
>> In article <bjrtos$brd$03$1 at news.t-online.com>,
>> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
>>>(By the way, I think the __del__() method is superfluous)

>>    I wish it were, but no.  The Python definition leaves the
>> door open for implementations that garbage-collect only when
>> they sorely need to, [ ... ]
>>    Rather say that logfile.__del__ is only half an answer.

>I don't understand this. Where is the difference between delaying the
>garbage collection of the logfile instance or its fh attribute?

   What I was thinking was, logfile eventually gets
collected, and if it has the __del__ method as shown, the
file will at least get closed then.  Without the __del__
method, the file will(?) get collected eventually but maybe
a long time after logfile.  Not superfluous in terms of more
functionality than is necessary .. superfluous in terms of
more code than is used, I guess.

>On implementations where immediate gc is not guaranteed, the only realistic
>solution to avoid "dangling" open files would be to make the file closing
>explicit:

   Very true.  This is what I would call the whole answer.

        Regards.        Mel.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 05:51:21 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:51:21 +0100
Subject: Sending SMS...
References: <7b454334.0309131130.59cf64fa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F658B99.D75AE358@hotmail.com>

Fazer wrote:
> Can anyone point me to a way on how to send a SMS message using Python?

If you can read Java APIs, and don't mind working jython, then take a
look
at OpenSMPP, an open source implementation of the SMPP protocol.

The dates may look a little stale, i.e. last work done nearly two
years ago, but I'm fairly sure that most of the core stuff is working
and stable. OpenSMPP was written by Aldiscon (a Dublin company), who
were then taken over by Logica. Logica maintained the Open Source
committment.

http://opensmpp.logica.com/

Then there are various solutions where you can put a GSM card in your
PC, or cables to link an actual mobile handset to your PC, and rx/tx
SMS through those.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep 25 10:08:55 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:08:55 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <u172glc2.fsf@python.net> <bktgkc$5gk64$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <ad8tfdwv.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <DdacnR-12Jpma--iU-KYvA@comcast.com>

> "Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> writes:
> >     Would it be feasible to eliminate the Python Docs
> >     from the standard distribution and always download
> >     separately if desired ????
> >
> >     This would eliminate downloading the docs twice
> >     if the user wants the separate doc files and provide
> >     a leaner download for non-programming Python users
> >     that will never develop anything in Python themselves
> >     but who want a run-time environment only ....

I agree that a separate Windows run-only distribution (including .pyc
instead of .py files) would be a good idea.  But someone has to
volunteer the time or money to make it happen.  The current release
procedure is still being refined and documented by the current
volunteers.

Terry J. Reedy





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 14:09:32 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:09:32 GMT
Subject: GET and POST
References: <xc%7b.1420$95.169@newsr2.u-net.net> <mailman.1063289827.17272.python-list@python.org> <l908b.1425$95.197@newsr2.u-net.net>
Message-ID: <wT28b.339$o71.19@news2.central.cox.net>

"franck" <opo at opo.com> wrote in message
news:l908b.1425$95.197 at newsr2.u-net.net...
> i know how to do a GET.
> :) i have this example.
> my contact tell my i must do a get AND a post :/
>
In which case your contact is likely talking through his or her hat. GET and
POST are HTTP methods. In any given interaction the client can do either a
GET or a POST (or one of a number of other methods: the operative word here
is ONE).

> GET to fuse param et POST for the others.
>
> dont know how do that.
>
I suspect what your contact means is that you have to provide the value of
(I presume you mean) fuseaction encoded in the URL, and that the rest must
be provided as POST data. This is a somewhat bizarre requirement (and their
server is obviously not written in Python, but that's another thread ...).

Try something like:

params = {}

params['user'] = '***';
params['password'] = '**********';
params['num_card'] = '******';
params['date_of_birth'] = '****';

params = urllib.urlencode(params)
f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com?fuseaction=*****",params)
print f.read()

and see if that works. If not, go back to your contact for further
enlightenment. Do they mean two operations or just one?

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Sep 29 20:00:09 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:00:09 -0700
Subject: append log file
In-Reply-To: <bla7s7$gbh$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de> <mailman.1064866420.20978.python-list@python.org> <bla7s7$gbh$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <200309291700.09081.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Monday 29 September 2003 02:19 pm, Tom wrote:
> Gary Herron wrote:
> >Well ... A mode of "a" is the correct thing, abd it works just fine
> >for me.  So we need to know some other things to solve this problem.
> >
> >What platform?
>
> I am using windows.
>
> >Is the data ascii or binary? (If binary on win32, then you probably
> >need mode "ab" or some such)
>
> It is just ascii.
>
> >Exactly what do you mean by "messed up"?
>
> The Data in the log file looks like this:
> ??0/000/000/000/000/000/00?0/00?0/000/000/000/000/000/000/000/000/00?
> Instead it should look like this:
> 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1
>
> >Gary Herron
>
> I am confused.
> -Tom

I don't believe it is ascii.  The line (shown above) is extremely
garbled, but it looks like a binary (or unicode) string garbled as it
passes through you mail client while sending and my mail client while
reading.
       
So do this:
  print type(ErrorInfo)
and 
  print `ErrorInfo`  # the back quotes are important here
before you write it out and tell us the results.

I think you'll find that the contents of ErrorInfo is not a string
filled with only printable ascii characters.

Gary Herron







From rolfedh at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 25 20:10:18 2003
From: rolfedh at hotmail.com (Rolfe)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 17:10:18 -0700
Subject: Successful installation of mod_python on Apache on Win2k?
Message-ID: <cfd500a9.0309251610.3427181f@posting.google.com>

Has anyone had success getting mod_python to run on Apache on Win2K?
I'm writing up instructions on how to do this and need your help. When
completed, the instructions at the mod_python website and on
comp.lang.python crediting all those who contributed.
<p>
Here's what I've done so far - and where I get stuck:
<p>
1. I made default installations of the latest versions:
  - apache_2.0.47-win32-x86-no_ssl.msi
  - mod_python-3.0.3.win32.exe
<p>
2. I followed the installation/configuration instructions provided at
the end of the mod_python-3.0.3.win32.exe installation.
<p>
3. When I created and ran the following script shown at
http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/inst-testing.html, my
browser displays the full text of the script instead of running the
script:
"from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
    req.write("Hello World!")
    return apache.OK"

4. I've read Troubleshooting and FAQ, triple-checked my http.conf
file, and still can't get it to work.

ANY SUGGESTIONS?

Thanks,

Rolfe



From achrist at easystreet.com  Wed Sep 10 15:40:37 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:40:37 -0700
Subject: Opposite of yield?
Message-ID: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>

The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of
lightweight concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there
any similarly nice way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around
(perhaps in the middle of a loop) and wait until some other routine
(unknown to the waiting module) hurls a value in?

If this is not implemented now, is there any chance that it's on the
list of things to come?


Al



From mpeuser at t-online.de  Sat Sep  6 14:16:08 2003
From: mpeuser at t-online.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:16:08 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <bjco6f$fsc$07$1@news.t-online.com>, <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours> <20030906172923.4436.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <001901c374a2$f2760290$2201a8c0@pc2236>

Hi Moshe,
though I decided to no longer answer to that thread, I will make an
exception ;-) Can you possible explain why my benevolent and pro-Python
attitude (though not without critical touch) can be so mis-interpreted??

----- Original Message -----
From: "Moshe Zadka" <m at moshez.org>
To: "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Why python???


> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote:

> > ...One of the things that impressed me in Python was that it is
> > aware of complex numbers and it has NumPy (which in fact is *not*
Python).
> > Though I think that this very rarely is stated as one of Python's
> > overwhelming assets and most people even wonder what this can be used
for

> You're obviously wrong on that count.

Well, how can you say that?? May be I err, but because you and I and a *lot*
af people use NumPy, that does not prove that - to my experience - *most* do
not use it. Period.

> Or, rather, it might be that this
> is rarely stated as an advantage -- but this is because it is irrelevant.
> I do know, for a fact, I do recommend it as an advantage when people are
> asking me what to use. For example, a friend of mine wants to do 3D
> sketches for some notes about elliptic curves he's preparing, and one
> of the advantages I stressed when recommending Python was that it is
> easy to do stuff like "take this array of vectors and give me an
> array of vectors multiplied by this matrix". Of course, I realize that
> most people think that multiplying vectors by matrices is stuff nobody
> needs, and I would *not* stress it as an advantage if I was trying
> to explain to my graphic designer friend why Python is a good language.
>
> As to NumPy being "not Python", I hardly see how this is relevant.

No it is not very relevant! It is just the observation that you could more
or less easily include it in every language with some heap-support. So I
would not overstress it as such, as I would not stress the fact that Tcl/Tk
is tightly coupled to Python - which is not considered an advantage by
everybody.

> NumPy is enjoying *excellent* syntactical support from Python [for
> example, a[3:5,...,4:6] is actually working code which does what
> it looks like, namely gives a multi-dimensional array with the same
> dimensions, except the 0th dimension only gets the 3-4 layers and
> the last dimension gets the 4:6 layers (try to do this in other
> non-numeric-specific languages!)] and is fairly easy to install.

This is *just nice*

> You may not be aware of it, but it is eventually slated to get in
> core Python -- it's just that the NumPy guys themselves wanted a do-over
> [in the form of numarray] before it is blessed into the standard
> distribution. But even until then, it is easy enough to install
> on most operating systems, so I consider that as a core advantage
> of Python itself.

Though I am looking to numarray from time to time I was not aware of this;
it is certainly a good thing. Beeing included in the standard distribution
is a kind of promotion, but does not make it "Python", as the STL is not
C++.

> > However the *real* programs then are the mathematical packages, OpenGL,
> > simulation and visualisation.
>
> That's a lot like saying that the "real" programs are the CPU designs.
> I am betting fairly certainly that Intel has spent more money on its
> CPUs's design than, say, the OpenGL team has on its software -- and
> this gets even more ridiculous if you start considering how much money
> nVidia spends. What it comes down to is that I don't care if you call
> what I do "real" programming or not -- I care only for getting a job
> done. If I write a statistical analysis program which is much shorter
> than the NumPy code, does it make my software non-real? I don't know.
> But when I did write statistics code, I was sure happy I could play
> with parameters and different filtering algorithms faster than I could
> do it in any other way [including dedicated statistics software --
> we had no SAS and SPSS is a piece of crap].

Maybe I should explain the background of my arguing which I had not done in
the NG thread: We have full-time programmers and domain-specialists who are
(more or less) forced to do some programming because they couldn't work
otherwise. There are arguments whether it is necessary or useful for both to
use the same programming language since we had programming languages. This
is how BASIC came into existance which no *real programmer* would ever touch
(as programmer that is). From yout point of view as "scripting user" you are
absolutly right. From the point of view of a "tool making" programmer there
are more complex considerations. They rollup to the point you already
stated: "I care only for getting a job don." But the programmer has a
different job...

Kindly
Michael P


>
> --
> Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
> Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
> Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with
shortness.
> Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/





From brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk  Wed Sep 10 05:52:19 2003
From: brian at rk-speed-rugby.dk (Brian Elmegaard)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 11:52:19 +0200
Subject: Python reading output from a running, external process
Message-ID: <uoextkm24.fsf@mail.afm.dtu.dk>

Hi,

I am not sure if this is a python or a wx question. However, I am
working on a GUI for a simulation tool written in fortran. The output
from this program during simulation written to memory and at the end
to a file. Probably, this is the most portable way of handling
output(?)

Now, if I would like to build the GUI, so every time the simulator
writes new output to the output buffer in memory, the GUI would update
the onscreen output, could I do that?  If not, is there any way to do
it except making a library function/dll from the application and run
that from python?

PS: I have taken a look at mmap, and perhaps this is what I am looking
for? But can the file to open be the output buffer from a process? On
windows? On unix?

tia
-- 
Brian (remove the sport for mail)
http://www.et.dtu.dk/staff/be



From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Mon Sep 22 04:39:15 2003
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:39:15 -0500
Subject: Money data type
References: <mailman.1063894475.13047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <q8Sdna1v7JgzKfOiXTWJkw@august.net>

Batista, Facundo wrote:
> Are you trying to tell me that if I work always with float, and in the
> final step (reaching the user's eyes or check in the printer) I
> "represent" it with str (for example) or with "%.5f", I get no rounding
> errors?
> 
> If you are, I will believe you! (even "feeling" other way, but can not
> prove it).

Nope, you will indeed get small errors if you do this -- at least you will
if you work with very large amounts of money in the calculations.  The
only way to "not drop pennies" is to represent them with integers.

Specifically, Python long integers have arbitrary size (they are limited
by memory, not any fixed upper limit as are normal ints in python and
integer types in languages like C).

I'm pretty sure that the fixed point library that was mentioned does
exactly this -- it represents the numbers in the same way as the Python
long, but with the decimal point moved to a certain place.

People who are used to scientific and engineering computations don't
worry about this -- there are well-defined ways to avoid trouble from
rounding errors in those fields, and the need for numbers that can
represent arbitrarily large and small values in a compact way far outweighs
the precision advantage of integer or fixed-point representations.

I say this after having had this point proved to me, since I tended to
be from the "why not use floats" school, myself.  Whether in some
moral sense we *should* be concerned about pennies in a number like
the US national debt, is a philosophical issue I don't think we can
do justice to here. ;-)

Cheers,
Terry

-- 
Terry Hancock
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com/




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 17:42:19 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:42:19 -0400
Subject: how to write-protect names
References: <3F68C499.1060604@aon.at> <3F68C60C.AC611276@engcorp.com> <3F68CE89.20601@aon.at>
Message-ID: <3F68D53B.CE7DF693@engcorp.com>

Gregor Lingl wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen schrieb:
> 
> > What exactly do you need this for?  If you describe the purpose
> > you have in mind for it we can provide the best approach, or
> > tell you that we don't think you should bother. ;-)
> >
> > -Peter
> 
> I'm writing a module for teaching young students. It contains
> e. g. a function width, which assigns a value to some (hidden)
> variable:
> 
>  >>> width(5)
> 
> Now my experience is, that from time to time some of my
> students write (erroneously)
> 
>  >>> width = 5
> 
> which renders the function width unaccessible for future
> use. 

Ah, good.  In that case the answer is fairly simple.  You
cannot "write-protect" the name in the main module, but you
could use your own namespace for the methods such as width(),
putting them in something that looks like a module but is 
really an object with a __setattr__() method which prevents
"overwriting" any of the existing names.  Maybe util.width()
or something like that.

The fundamental issue is really that names are merely labels
for the things themselves, and can be rebound at will.  The
students aren't really overwriting anything, and the original 
width() method still exists (if any other binding to it exists
anywhere), they are simply making the label "width" reference
a different object and you can't that without providing your
own interactive environment, I suspect.

(And as a result, you still can't stop the students from binding
the name "util" to something else and still screwing up the above,
but perhaps you can trust the students not to do this if you
demonstrate it and explain why it's a bad idea.)

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep 20 05:28:09 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 09:28:09 GMT
Subject: Ways to improve this clock algorithm?
References: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com> <87ekyhd8to.fsf@vercingetorix.caesar.org>
Message-ID: <bkh6j9$v5v$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:45:55 +0200, Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone <dialtone#NOSPAM#.despammed at aruba.it> wrote:

>jacobsmail at gmx.net (Jacob H) writes:
>
>> I am grateful for any suggestions and advice. :)
>
>import time
>class ExampleTimer(object):
>    def __init__(self):
>        print "This is my super clock"
>        self.run()
>
>    def run(self):
>        while 1:
>              self.update_time()
>              print "%s hrs %s min %s sec" % (self.hours, self.mins, self.secs)
>              time.sleep(1)
>
>    def update_time(self):
>        # I would use time.localtime() to update the time because doing this I am
>        # sure that it is always syncd with my pc time. I think this is the only
>        # improvement :). It also removes the need for all that math.
>        self.secs = time.localtime()[5]
>        self.mins = time.localtime()[4]
>        self.hours = time.localtime()[3]
Sooner or later a second will tick between the above statements and give inconsistent h,m,s.
Better to get the tuple, slice it and unpack it, e.g., (untested)

         self.hours, self.mins, self.secs = time.localtime()[3:6]

Also, time.sleep(1) will probably span an epsilon more than one second sometime, and
when that hits the second updates right you will get a 2-second hiccup in apparent time
output. As to when it will happen, it's only a matter of time ;-) (Unless you are running
on some platform that has some underlying synchronization with wall clock seconds going on).

One way to get around that might be to sync up with the seconds turnover, either with a
busy wait or with a minimal sleep interval, then sleep say .99 seconds and wait again in
a minimal sleep loop until the second-value changes (if it has not done so already due
to extraneous delays). You can fine tune various aspects of this (as an exercise ;-)

<rant>
This kind of ugliness results if there's no way to tell the OS a precise wall clock time
to ready your process/thread after a wait and/or if timers don't have a way of specifying
accurate intervals that work to the nearest tick and don't accumulate tick resolution errors.
Relatively simple to provide if you are coding the OS clock stuff, so why is application-level
timer expiration usually only relative to a precisely unpredictable "now" instead of a time
coordinate in some time coordinate system?
</rant>

>
>app = ExampleTimer()
>app.run()
>
>            
>
>-- 
>Valentino Volonghi, Regia SpA, Milan
>
>Linux User #310274, Debian Sid Proud User

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From john.abel at pa.press.net  Mon Sep 29 14:12:29 2003
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:12:29 +0100
Subject: Is There A Problem With makefile() On Win32?
Message-ID: <003d01c386b5$9a91b9f0$66656565@hallows>

Hi,

I've a small script, which listens to a port on a remote machine.  I'm
trying to implement makefile.  However, the code on Win32 Py 2.2.2

    def _Connect( self ):
        sockConn = socket.socket( socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM )
        try:
            sockConn.connect( ( self.remoteMachine, self.remotePort ) )
        except socket.error, ErrorMsg:
            print "Got Me An Error"

        print "Going To Run MakeFile"
        sockFile = sockConn.makefile( 'r' )
        for tcpData in sockFile:
            print tcpData

produces this:

    for tcpData in sockFile:
TypeError: iteration over non-sequence

On linux, it just sits there, ignoring the incoming data.  Py 2.3.1 on
linux/OSX works OK (I haven't got round to testing 2.3.1 on Win32).  I've
checked the docs for 2.2.3/2.3.1, and can't find anything to say it
shouldn't work.  My question then, is it fixed on 2.2.3, and will it work on
Win32 (I have to develop scripts to run on Win32/linux/OSX)?

Regards

John





From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Sep 26 08:43:15 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:43:15 -0300
Subject: Where to import modules?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338301E@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- I have a "style" question: Sometimes, modules will only be used in a 
#- particular, optional, part of a program (function, class), 
#- that will not 
#- always be used when the application is run. So I think it is 
#- better to 
#- import them only there, not on the top of the file (together 
#- with the 
#- other imports). Is that okay, or are there good reasons for 
#- not doing so?


>From PEP-8 (Style Guide for Python Code):

    - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any
      module comments and docstrings, and before module globals and
      constants.  Imports should be grouped, with the order being

      1. standard library imports
      2. related major package imports (i.e. all email package imports next)
      3. application specific imports

      You should put a blank line between each group of imports.


.	Facundo





From garyr at fidalgo.net  Sat Sep 20 23:20:10 2003
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Gary Richardson)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:20:10 -0700
Subject: Tkinter cursor question
Message-ID: <vmq6a09ffl4c4@corp.supernews.com>

I would like to define a new cursor for use on a Canvas (other than one of
those listed in Appendix F of "Python and Tkinter Programming"). A search on
Google turned up one bit of code that seemed promising. A slightly
simplified version is shown below. This code attempts to eliminate the
cursor by defining an invisible one, which is not what I want, but I thought
it might be a start. However, it doesn't run; the statement t = Text(...)
generates an error message: TclError: bad cursor spec "@testcursor white".
The testcursor file is being created in the current directory.

How can this code be corrected? Where can I find more information on
creating a cursor?

I'm using ActivePython 2.2 Build 224

Thanks,
Gary Richardson
---------------------------
# From a post to c.l.p by Matthew Dixon Cowles on 17 Jul 2002.
from Tkinter import *
import os
kNullCursorData="""
    #define t_cur_width 1
    #define t_cur_height 1
    #define t_cur_x_hot 0
    #define t_cur_y_hot 0
    static unsigned char t_cur_bits[] = { 0x00};
"""
root=Tk()
os.umask(0177) # octal
fn = "testcursor"
f=open(fn,"w")
f.write(kNullCursorData)
f.close()
t=Text(root,bg="white",cursor="@testcursor white")
t.pack()
root.mainloop()









From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 07:37:06 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:37:06 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com> <bjo9so$4k1$00$1@news.t-online.com> <v0fvlvcrh3ooon3hb6ecif6u706f0fhval@4ax.com> <bjp4gk$rp1$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <p2n0mvki4oidpodbbhr1uca2sevvc48h50@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:25:11 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
wrote:

>... and that is the whole point of my example: You can easily bypass the
>rebinding in a manner that is hard to find (if fun() and nested() contained
>some real code)

Oops - for some reason I read "cause" as "catch". Still, you made your
point even though I didn't realise you intended to make it - and it
was a very compelling point.

Actually, the 'builder' solution to the issue that I mentioned before
isn't as good as I initially thought. Here is how I wrote it...

:   builder = Builder ()
: 
:   builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
:   builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
:   builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()
: 
:   container.Add (builder.Build ())
: 
:   builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()
: 
:   container.Add (builder.Build ())

The problem here is that it would be too easy for the caller to forget
to use the Build method - depending on what the 'container' actually
does, that may mean the builder gets used instead of the object.

Easily fixed, though - the builder and container are most likely part
of the same set of functionality, and therefore written to work
together. So the Add function should take the Builder object as its
parameter and call Build method itself. If it is given anything other
than a builder, the method won't exist and will fail immediately.




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Wed Sep 10 01:40:51 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:40:51 +1000
Subject: Redesign of Python site 
In-Reply-To: <3F5EB3C1.6020107@teksavvy.com> 
Message-ID: <200309100540.h8A5epgD030889@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Graham Fawcett wrote
> Interesting point. It might prove useful to those redesigning the
> site, or discussing its redesign, to examine either
> 
> -- python.org's Web logs, if available, or

http://www.python.org/wwwstats/

For some reason, these haven't been regenerated for the last few weeks.
I'll find out why.

>From the most recent stats, the top 20 entry pages:

      Hits            Visits          URL
1     252455  3.60%   164578  44.76%  /
2     169489  2.42%   20381   5.54%   /pypi
3     66001   0.94%   7997    2.18%   /2.3/
4     47542   0.68%   7664    2.08%   /doc/
5     25401   0.36%   7049    1.92%   /doc/current/tut/tut.html
6     39856   0.57%   5825    1.58%   /download/
7     10903   0.16%   2826    0.77%   /cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
8     20848   0.30%   2678    0.73%   /doc/current/lib/lib.html
9     10952   0.16%   2428    0.66%   /doc/Newbies.html
10    8372    0.12%   2347    0.64%   /doc/Intros.html
11    13328   0.19%   1971    0.54%   /doc/current/
12    7992    0.11%   1616    0.44%   /2.3/highlights.html
13    2537    0.04%   1490    0.41%   /~guido/
14    67565   0.96%   1430    0.39%   /doc/current/icons/
15    4802    0.07%   1324    0.36%   /doc/Comparisons.html
16    22751   0.32%   1251    0.34%   /topics/learn/
17    3631    0.05%   1199    0.33%   /doc/FAQ.html
18    53884   0.77%   1198    0.33%   /cgi-bin/faqw.py
19    7969    0.11%   1152    0.31%   /doc/current/tut/node7.html
20    9290    0.13%   1144    0.31%   /doc/current/tut/node6.html






From edwards at nospam.lcs.mit.edu  Sun Sep 28 20:16:23 2003
From: edwards at nospam.lcs.mit.edu (Jonathan Edwards)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:16:23 GMT
Subject: Python parser that records source ranges
Message-ID: <qRKdb.456249$Oz4.260848@rwcrnsc54>

The parser library module only records source line numbers for tokens. I 
need a parser that records ranges of line and character locations for 
each AST node, so I can map back to the source. Does anyone know of such 
a thing? Thanks

Jonathan




From Huzzah! at Huzzah.com  Tue Sep 16 21:56:21 2003
From: Huzzah! at Huzzah.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:56:21 GMT
Subject: audio module
Message-ID: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

Is there such a module containing audio tools?  I am looking specifically
for tools to manipulate ogg-vorbis and convert other formats (mp3, wav) to
ogg.

-- 
Todd Stephens
ICQ# 3150790
"A witty saying proves nothing."
                -Voltaire



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep 29 16:49:19 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 20:49:19 GMT
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bla5sf$lkl$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:31:05 -0500, "Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:

>I've just about convinced myself there is no good, clean solution to the
>following puzzle.  I wonder if you agree.
>
>1. My app has a module called leoGlobals that contains often-used global
>functions.  All of Leo's source files start with:
>
>from leoGlobals import *
>
>I don't want to discuss whether this is good style: it is simple and it
>works well for me :-)
>
>2.  All code accesses the singleton application object using the app()
>method in leoGlobals.
>
>3.  To make the code cleaner looking, I would really like the code to be
>able to access an app global instead of the app() function.  This has
>nothing to do with speed: it's simply that there are lots of references to
>app() in the code, and there is soon going to be a lot more references to
>app.gui.x() and app.gui.y() etc.
>
>As a workaround, many methods and functions assign a = app(), but I would
>like to avoid this step.
>
How about an app proxy object that just passes through attribute accesses later?
That way you can immediately in leoGlobal create something that will have the
app name binding that all importers of leoGlobal can copy the binding to, but
which won't/shouldn't get used 'till the app behind it is initialized.

(see code at end)

>4. Alas, it does not seem possible to initialize an app global in
>leoGlobals.  The reason is simple:
>
>from leoGlobals import *
>
>caches the value of app at the time the  import is done.  But the startup
>code that creates the app "global" (really an attribute of the leoGlobals
>module) must do _other_ imports.
>
Ok, see code below

>For example, doing the following at the top of leoGlobals doesn't work:
>
>import leoApp
>app = leoApp.leoApp() # construct the app instance.

Well, plain vanilla it works, but not if leoApp() wants to import leoGlobals and expect app
to be already bound.

But see code below.

>
>Indeed, the leoApp module will be imported before the assignment of app.
Well, that's the order you wrote it ;-) I mean, no prob so far, right?

>Moreover, the leoApp module does other imports, and all the app variables in
>those modules will be uninitialized.
Because _they_ do from leoGlobals import * and leoGlobals is not ready
for that yet.
>
>It would be horrible style to place detailed constraints on the order in
>which modules get imported, and I'm not sure even that would work.
>
>Any ideas for a clean solution?  Thanks.

Well, I'm just exploring your problem in its particular form right now, so
I'm not sure what can be guaranteed, but it looks like when you import leoApp
and it triggers a rash of "from leoGlobals import *", the leoGlobals in effect
will be a snapshot of the leoGlobal module dict at that time, so what has been
defined/bound will be visible, but whatever has not, won't, e.g., the appInvisible
in leoGlobals is visible to my interactive from leoGlobals import *, but not
via the app method that returns the global dict _it_ sees. The latter does have bindings
for the other globals though.

There may be more to it than that, but that's what I get from experimenting as below:

===< leoGlobals.py >======================
class AppWrap(object):
    def setapp(self, theRealApp): self.theRealApp = theRealApp
    def __getattr__(self, name): return getattr(self.__dict__['theRealApp'], name)
app = AppWrap()
K1k = 1024
whatever = 'whatever value'
app.setapp(__import__('leoApp').leoApp())
appInvisible = 'App import dependents do not see this in their leoGlobals'
==========================================

===< leoApp.py >==========================
from leoGlobals import *
class leoApp(object):
    def foometh(self): print 'foometh of %r called.'%self
    def getapp(self): return app # from leoGlobals import above
    def peek(self): return locals(), globals()
==========================================

Experimental result:

 >>> from leoGlobals import *
 >>> dir()
 ['AppWrap', 'K1k', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'app', 'appInvisible', 'whatever']
 >>> app
 <leoGlobals.AppWrap object at 0x008F9FD0>
 >>> app.foometh()
 foometh of <leoApp.leoApp object at 0x008F9E70> called.
 >>> app.getapp
 <bound method leoApp.getapp of <leoApp.leoApp object at 0x008F9E70>>
 >>> app.getapp().foometh()
 foometh of <leoApp.leoApp object at 0x008F9E70> called.

Now we'll peek at the globals in the leoApp module via the peek method

 >>> app.peek()[1]['whatever']
 'whatever value'
 >>> app.peek()[1]['K1k']
 1024

Those were visible, but let's try that last one ;-)

 >>> app.peek()[1]['appInvisible']
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 KeyError: 'appInvisible'

But here in the interactive environment, the import * got the final state of leoGlobals, so

 >>> appInvisible
 'App import dependents do not see this in their leoGlobals'

And the app binding seen in other modules should be ok (though not ok to use until app.setapp
has been called, so you will have to watch dependencies in the way you order things in leoGlobals --
you want app=AppWrap() at the top, and presumably app.setapp(...) at the end, if it's going
to trigger imports that want to see everything preceding).

Here is an access to an app method via the global imported in another (leoApp) module,
though of course this example is otherwise silly ;-)

 >>> app.peek()[1]['app']
 <leoGlobals.AppWrap object at 0x00902250>
 >>> app.peek()[1]['app'].foometh()
 foometh of <leoApp.leoApp object at 0x00902450> called.

I guess you will lose a little speedwise by going through the wrapped app name, but
does that let you spell things the way you wanted?

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 12:15:28 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 09:15:28 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Re: Writing solid code book
References: <mailman.1062712334.5549.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0309050815.64bb73a9@posting.google.com>

> Perhaps something like Kent Beck's _Test Driven Development_ would
> be more easily applicable to Python than Writing Solid code.
> (self.disclaimer = "Have not read it personally")

Yes, but unfortunately, I have found Kent's 'xUnit' 
(python example chapters) code to be quite buggy.

see:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=6e07b825.0306262143.4c5735d5%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dyaipa%2Bbeck%2Bgroup:comp.lang.python.*%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*%26selm%3D6e07b825.0306262143.4c5735d5%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D1

I was going to write an errata, but found that to do so, 
I would have to write the chapters over from scratch. 
At which point I decided that it was time to move on and
get some work done.

  --Alan



Jeremy Dillworth <jwdillworth at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062712334.5549.python-list at python.org>...
> --- "John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> > post400 at prontomail.com (post400) writes:
> > 
> > > there is another famous book 'Writing solid code' but does it apply to
> > > Python ? Or it's usable only by Microsoft C programmers ? The author
> > > seems to be an ex-Microsoft guy !
> > 
> > Never read it, but from the blurb about and extract from it in my copy
> > of Code Complete it certainly sounds pretty focused on C.
> > 
> > The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
> > learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).
> > 
> > 
> > John
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> I agree!  Python cookbook is a must-have for any [aspiring] Python 
> programmer.
> 
> Writing solid code is more about avoiding errors though, I don't see
> that covered in the cookbook.  Unless I missed some recipes...
> 
> Perhaps something like Kent Beck's _Test Driven Development_ would
> be more easily applicable to Python than Writing Solid code.
> (self.disclaimer = "Have not read it personally")



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 10:25:07 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 15:25:07 +0100
Subject: Extracting TIFF from emails
References: <bc258e66.0309030604.1fdc0e8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87y8x654qk.fsf@pobox.com>

ryan at ryanswift.com (Ryan Swift) writes:

> Hi, I'm new to Python, so this may be an easy solution.  I'm having
> trouble extracting TIFF files from incoming emails.  Actually, I think
> the root of my problem is that I'm having trouble reading the email
> header.  Does anyone have an easy solution?  Thanks in advance.

You've found the email module, right (you probably want to use Python
2.3)?

What is the specific problem you're having?


John



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Sep  9 09:20:33 2003
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:20:33 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjkk32$tkk@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Graham Fawcett" <fawcett at teksavvy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list at python.org...

> Developers will always be first-class Python users; it's a programming
> language, after all. Whether they should be first-class users of
> www.python.org, in my humble opinion, is questionable.

I don't think so. They *are* the primary users of www.python.org
If you're suggesting that to give a professional feel, we should be like
Microsoft by moving around content so nobody can find it any more,
I strongly disagree.

I exaggerate, of course. However, although, I am not a complete
purist about it, keeping deep links (like say the PEPs) from breaking
should be part of the aim of the redesign. I'm sure it is.

What happens on the front page is up for debate. Developers can
bookmark a separate developer home page - I've no problem with that.





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Wed Sep 24 02:46:04 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 23:46:04 -0700
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
References: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309232246.64fdc531@posting.google.com>

Hello Alan,

> I intend to write both client and server in Python, and my main goal 
> in the first cut is speed. Suggestions?
Find your bottleneck! (try hotshot)
If it's in the network maybe use socket + pickle + bz2 ?

HTH.
Miki



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Sep  8 19:02:17 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:02:17 +1000
Subject: Eureka!
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD4CF8@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Skip Montanaro [mailto:skip at pobox.com]
> 
> Clearly the opportunity for abuse using tiny urls is somewhat 
> higher because
> they are much easier to create, but I've never had a problem. 
>  You judge the
> context and the presumed source of the URL and take your chances.

I really like tiny urls (and successfully argued with IT here that they should not be blocked as they are only a redirector). However, I prefer that people (including myself) include both the original URL (which may wrap) and the tiny url in the post.

That way people can have much greater confidence in the page that they are going to be redirected to. It's not foolproof, but it's better IMO.

Tim Delaney




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Sep 24 13:33:43 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:33:43 -0300
Subject: Others constructors...
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FFF@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Studying the module datetime, found that you can create a date instance
like:

	mydate = datetime.date(2003, 9, 15)

but also you have others constructors. For example:

	mydate = datetime.date.today()

How is this trick implemented in Python? (think the module is in C or
something, didn?t found a datetime.py).

Thanks for all.

Facundo Batista
Gesti?n de Red
fbatista at unifon.com.ar
(54 11) 5130-4643
Cel: 15 5132 0132







. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
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Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From richie at entrian.com  Thu Sep 18 09:30:22 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:30:22 +0100
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
In-Reply-To: <4fd6e92.0309180512.c860a31@posting.google.com>
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com> <KI1ab.25228$dy5.1507439@phobos.telenet-ops.be> <4fd6e92.0309180512.c860a31@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <chcjmv4nmp83ej97f34qtqqi24mr76dd1o@4ax.com>

[Bill]
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'C:\\Email\test.txt'
                                                   ^^     ^

You've missed a backslash somewhere.  Your filename looks like
C:\Email<tab>est.txt.  You should always do one of the following:

 o Remember to double your backslashes: "C:\\Email\\test.txt"
 o Use raw strings for pathnames: r"C:\Email\test.txt"
 o Use forward slashes (which are fine on Windows): "C:/Email/test.txt"

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Tue Sep 30 18:10:02 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:10:02 +0200
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064949643.10685.python-list@python.org>
References: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064949643.10685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f79fc46$0$28902$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Dominik Kaspar wrote:
> 
>>i'm used to java and its strict way of defining variables. so how is
>>it possible to reach something like a class variable in python?
>>with the following code i didn't have much succes...
>>
>>class Server(threading.Thread):
>>    running = 0  (??)
>>        
>>    def run(self):
>>        running = 1
>>        while running:
>>            print "do something here..."
>>
>>    def exit(self):
>>        running = 0
> 
> 
> This is where self is for: self.running refers to the class
> variable 'running'.

Gerrit, I'm afraid you answsered too fast. here, 'self.running' will 
refer to (and eventually create) an *instance* variable 'running'. If 
the OP want a *class* variable, he needs 'Server.running'.

(Now does the OP really want a class variable or did he meant an 
instance variable is another question...)

Bruno




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Sep  4 15:00:13 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:00:13 -0400
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com>
 <bj30il$eoev7$2@ID-125932.news.uni-berlin.de>
 <mailman.1062542045.14859.python-list@python.org> <w4WV/kKkXY/L092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <9u4V/kKkXUid092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote previously:
|There are legal reasons: Perhaps the software will be found to violate
|a patent, or infringe copyright.  Perhaps it will be judged to violate a
|DMCA-type law.  Perhaps a new "software defects" law will be impossible
|for free software to conform to (for instance, due to a requirement that
|the software developer post a bond against damages caused by defects in
|the software).

Yeah... and perhaps the word 'disingenuous' will be removed from future
editions of popular dictionaries; and then we will lack a concise way to
describe "special pleading" of this sort.  I think it's unlikely though.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From dermoon at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 11 08:14:15 2003
From: dermoon at hotmail.com (dermoon)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 05:14:15 -0700
Subject: Fetching address-string from web-browser
Message-ID: <bff50f69.0309110414.246c8c2e@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I want to fetch the address-string from the web-browser visiting a page on
my apache-server (not using access-log).

ex. "http://some-server/mydocument.html"

To fetch the document name I used os.environ['DOCUMENT_NAME'] on my linux-system.

Now I am using a Win2000 machine and I would like to fetch the whole
string, not just the document name.

How is it done?



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 16 10:31:09 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:31:09 -0500
Subject: _ssl.so build problems on Solaris 8 for 2.3
In-Reply-To: <m3u17dwwy4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1063659200.574.python-list@python.org>
        <m3u17dwwy4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16231.7853.583416.684909@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Martin> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
    >> Is distutils missing some libraries or have I hosed the OpenSSL
    >> installation somehow?

    Martin> The latter. You must make sure that the library you link with is
    Martin> position-independent, or else you must build _ssl as a builtin
    Martin> module (i.e. through Modules/Setup, as non-shared).

Thanks Martin.  That took care of it...

Skip




From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 10:18:25 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 15:18:25 +0100
Subject: Graphic python debugger
References: <20030917120146.3c5202e2.max@fr.fm>
Message-ID: <87fzivzefi.fsf@pobox.com>

Maxime Biais <max at fr.fm> writes:

> I'm looking for a graphic debugger for python on linux like DDD or GVD.
> I tried pdb and pdb-mode for emacs, but I would use a more gvd-like
> debugger.

Never used DDD or GVD, but have you looked at eric3?

The recent IDE thread might be useful to you, too.


John



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Sep 26 22:15:37 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:15:37 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <1NFcb.62896$gV.2762@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <dp6db.7740$541.7674@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Raymond]
> >    It crashes when applied to an infinite iterator.

[Steve Holden]
> Hmm. My little brain is having difficulty imagining anything that won't.
> What am I missing?

The PEP proposes adding a method only to a few objects
that don't have degenerate cases:  list, str, unicode, xrange
and possibly tuple.


Raymond Hettinger





From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Sep 30 08:40:56 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:40:56 +0200
Subject: os.mkdir() not creating . and ..
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.30.12.40.50.914979@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

Sometimes os.mkdir() does not create . and .. 

Before the mkdir() I do shutil.rmtree()

The filesystem is NFS, Linux 2.4.20-4GB (NFS-client)
Python: 2.2.2

Anyone seen something like this before?

 thomas




From turner at mmedia.is  Thu Sep  4 08:45:21 2003
From: turner at mmedia.is (Douglass Turner)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 05:45:21 -0700
Subject: built with --enable-shared but get error: libpython2.3.so.1.0: can't open shared object file
Message-ID: <ad2ca00b.0309040445.77c98c3c@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Please release me from my own private hell.

Platform: SuSE 8.1

I'm installing python 2.3 tarball as follows:

./configure --enable-shared
make
make install

When I simply type:

% python

I get:

python: error while loading shared libraries: libpython2.3.so.1.0:
cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

This is really, really, frustrating. The file does in fact live in
/usr/local/lib. Interestingly this is outside PYTHONHOME. How do I fix
this silly problem (which the python install process should *never*
let happen in the first place).


-Doug



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 12 09:26:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:26:47 -0400
Subject: Toronto-area Python user group September meeting
Message-ID: <mailman.1063375203.26202.clpa-moderators@python.org>

The next meeting of PyGTA will be held at the usual location and time,
on Tuesday September 23.

 Site:     519 Church St. Community Centre
 Room no:  31 (signs will be posted)
 Address:  519 Church St., near Wellesley
 Date:     Tuesday, September 23
 Time:     8-10 PM

A later announcement will provide details of any presentation which might 
be occurring that evening...

I missed the last couple but understand they went very well, with 
interesting presentations and discussion.  (Hmm.... maybe I should be
staying away from more of them? ;-)  

Don't miss out!

-Peter Hansen, for the PyGTA gang...




From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep 12 13:35:18 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 18:35:18 +0100
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no>
Message-ID: <87n0d9hpux.fsf@pobox.com>

John <john.thingstad at chello.no> writes:

> On 12 Sep 2003 06:09:02 -0700, Ubaidullah Nubar
> <ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> 4.
> Python is appox 400 times slower than C.
[...]

Maybe this was intended to be a silly number, but: this means very
little.  The degree of slowdown is hugely variable from one domain to
the next, and from one program to the next, and I've never heard
anyone else quote an indicative figure anywhere near that high.


John



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Sun Sep 21 14:40:37 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 11:40:37 -0700
Subject: problem about wxPython error
References: <mailman.1064147609.31857.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0309211040.342bcb5@posting.google.com>

The wxPython imports are in the subdirectory wx in
its installation. So all wxPython programs (that I know)
begin with the following statement.

from wxPython.wx import *

Maybe there is a frame.py somewhere which you have
to locate. Even then I think you need to place the
above import statement before your wx code.

-Anand

"Tinmean K.H.Liu" <khliu at ev078.ev.nctu.edu.tw> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064147609.31857.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi!
> I install wxPython under WinXP
> when I want to use some simple sample, there is an error message:
> 
>  File 
> "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
>  line 301, in RunScript
>     exec codeObject in   main  .  dict  
>   File "C:\Documents and 
> Settings\Tinmean\temp desktop\python 0921\wx1.py", line 3, in ?
>     from frame import Frame
> ImportError: No module named frame
> 
> From wiki's FAQ, I add new paths in  PYTHONPATH for wxPython and wx, but 
> it is no use.
> any one could help me?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> --Tinmean Liu in Taiwan
> --



From riquito at riquito.matrix  Tue Sep 23 12:02:37 2003
From: riquito at riquito.matrix (Riccardo Attilio Galli)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:02:37 +0200
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <3F6F86A2.DC29472A@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix> <3F704A91.FA7D31F7@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695@riquito.matrix>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:28:49 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Riccardo Attilio Galli wrote:
>> 
>> what about if I would reload an entered password?
>> I wrote an e-mail client, and I haven't found a way to store the password
>> that an user enter the first time and use it when the program is restarted.
>> I don't want to ask to the user every time the account password, but also
>> I don't want to store it as plain text.
>> Do you know what is the usual practice in these cases?
> 
> [...]
> In a nutshell, this is the point: you never use the plaintext form of
> the password.  As soon as it is entered, you convert it to a hash.  You
> store the hash, and if a user later enters a password and you need to
> check it, you convert *it* to a hash and compare the hashes.  Never, 
> ever, store or compare plain text passwords.  Does that help?
> 
> -Peter

I think you have misunderstood me(mmm, I hope it sound polite enough in
english). An user should never enter the password again. I know how hashes
work, and they're useful when I can compare an entered password with an
hash value, but here I need that the user don't enter a password anymore
(after the first time).

The natural use of the program would be:
run the e-mail client for the first time
user enter his e-mail password
the client check for new mails
user close the client.

while 1:
  user run the e-mail client
  the client check for new mails WITHOUT ask for a password
  user close the client

I hope I was clearer. I think Richard got the point, whit a "sad but true"
answer.

Ciao,
Riccardo


-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net



From roel at riks.nl  Thu Sep 11 09:16:13 2003
From: roel at riks.nl (Roel Vanhout)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:16:13 +0200
Subject: Embeddor Woes...
In-Reply-To: <ab261cb1.0309101658.5357ed1a@posting.google.com>
References: <ab261cb1.0309101658.5357ed1a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F60759D.9010100@riks.nl>

Have you tried to use embedding.cpp from the boost.python examples? It 
will show if your configuration is working OK; if it is, the problem is 
obviously in your program. At first sight I'd say that your test.py 
can't be found - did you set the right working directories?

cheers,

roel


Preston H wrote:

> Hello, someone may have tackled this problem before but I have
> searched the google newsgroups up and down and I can't find anything
> on this.  I am trying to write an embedded python program in C++ that
> will go out and execute python language in a script.
> 
> I am using Visual C++ .NET, and I do have Multithreaded DLL(/MD)
> turned on for the Runtime Library, I have the Python 2.2 installed and
> their include and libs directories are set.  Also, I have Visual C++
> .NET set to release version, mainly because I cannot find
> python22_d.dll anywhere.
> 
> This is the error that I get when I successfully compile this program
> and try to run it at a dos prompt...
> 
> The instruction at "0x77f85c41" referenced memory at "0x00000010". 
> The memory could not be "written".
> 
> This is the source code that I am trying to test...
> 
> #include "python.h"
> #include <stdio.h>
> 
> int main(int argc, char* argv[])
> {
> 	char *filename = "test.py";
> 	
> 	FILE *OurFile = fopen(filename, "r+");
> 
> 	Py_Initialize();
> 
> 	PyRun_SimpleFile(OurFile, "test.py");
> 
> 	Py_Finalize();
> 
> 	return 0;
> }
> 
> Like I said earlier, the program compiles without any hitches.  Any
> help on this is appreciated very much!


-- 

-- 
Roel Vanhout - Programmer/Systems Administrator
RIKS BV
Papenstraat 8 - 6211 LG Maastricht
Tel +31 (0)43 388 3708 - Fax +31 (0)43 325 3155





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep 30 10:51:19 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:51:19 -0400
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <vxSdnS8RrqP1BeSiXTWJhg@comcast.com>

"tertius" <tcronj at ananzi.co.za> wrote in message
news:3f793544$0$64721 at hades.is.co.za...
> Is there a better way to append certain chars in a string with a
> backslash that the example below?
>
> chr = "#$%^&_{}"          # special chars to look out for
> str = "123 45^ & 00 0_"   # string to convert
> n = ""                    # init new string
> for i in str:
>      if i in chr:          # if special character in str
>          n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
>      n+=i

You are pre-pending '\' (putting it before), which is probably what
you want to do, not ap-pending (putting it after).  In Alex's answer,
he actually did append, as claimed you were doing, but which is
probably not what you want.  If indeed not, you will want to change
c+'\\' to '\\'+c

Terry J. Reedy





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Sep 11 08:10:54 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:10:54 -0500
Subject: Tkinter Canvas/Grid question
In-Reply-To: <vlvm553ie2is04@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vlvm553ie2is04@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030911121048.GB2631@unpythonic.net>

To expand on Michael Peuser's response, I'll explain a little more.  The
grid first calculates the size requested by each item to find the
requested size for each row and column.  When there are no rowspans,
the requested size for a row is the maximum of the requested sizes for
any item in that row.  The same holds when talking about columns, their
weights and their widths.

Then, when there is too much or too little space, the difference is
split up among the rows according to their weight.  The default weight
for a row is 0.  Let total_weight be the sum of the weight of each row
with a widget, and diff be the number of pixels difference between the
height of the frame and the sum of the requested heights of its rows.  If
total_weight is 0, then all rows get their requested height.  Otherwise,
each row gets diff*row_weight/total_weight, with something done about
the rounding errors.

That's why the short answer to set the weight of row and column 0 to 1
works.

The other problem you may run into (I haven't run your code, but with
many levels of widget present, this may be a problem) is that each
level of the widget tree between this one containing the canvas, and the
Toplevel() or Tk() above it, must also be configured so that they will
expand to consume any extra available space.  Otherwise, the condition
"when there is too much or too little space" can't be true, because the
widget won't be given a larger size than it requested.

Jeff




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 30 11:57:12 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:57:12 GMT
Subject: eval's local arguement ignored?
References: <56e1eff0.0309230923.1215833f@posting.google.com> <21064255.0309260745.6d3d5650@posting.google.com> <56e1eff0.0309300536.51fdf2b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sJheb.197785$R32.6355848@news2.tin.it>

Jean-S?bastien Bolduc wrote:
   ...
> is this: I'm writing a class such as this:
> 
> class Foo:
>   def __init__(self, fnc, **params):
>     ...
>   def evaluate(self, val)
>     ...
> 
> That has to be instantiated as, e.g.:
> 
> x = Foo( 'lambda x : a*x', dict( a = 2. ) )

Hmmm.  'a' is NOT a local in that lambda -- it's a global.  locals
are [a] arguments, plus [b] variables that get re-bound within the
function (which, in a lambda, means only control variables used in
list comprehensions), PERIOD.  That, if you want, is the DEFINITION
of "local variable" in Python.

So, that dict had better be in the GLOBALS, or else variable 'a' will
of course not be fond.


> so that "x.evaluate( 5. )" will return, in this case, "2.*5.".
> 
> The approach you describe will certainly work, but the thing is that
> this class will have to be used by people who don't necessarily know
> Python (yet). So I would really like the lambda function's parameter
> list to always be the same, whatever you put on its RHS.
> 
> Once again, I don't understand why the "eval", as described above with
> "globals" and "locals" arguments specified, will not work. Is there a
> way to modify a function's closure?

You may play with closures, yes (not really modifying a function's
closure but rather building a new function object with a code taken
from one place and a closure from another, say), but I'm not sure it
would help you.

Consider the following...:

>>> import dis
>>> thefunc = lambda x: a * x
>>> dis.dis(thefunc)
  1           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (a)
              3 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
              7 RETURN_VALUE
>>>

Even if you're not familiar with Python's bytecode, I hope the simple
disassembly above is clear enough anyway: the value of 'a' is "loaded"
(onto the Python virtual machine's stack) as a *GLOBAL*, the value of
'x' is loaded via the "fast" (locals-only) route, then the multiply
happens (using the two top entries of the stack and pushing the result)
and the result is returned as the function's value.

Now, since you have the lambda available AS A STRING, you may consider:

>>> def ff(a=99):
...   return lambda x: x * a
...
>>> thefunc1 = ff()
>>> dis.dis(thefunc1)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
              3 LOAD_DEREF               0 (a)
              6 BINARY_MULTIPLY
              7 RETURN_VALUE
>>>

Here, the Python compiler knows that a IS a local (an argument, in
this example) in an enclosing function, therefore it loads 'a' with
LOAD_DEREF, *NOT* with LOAD_GLOBAL.  Because of this, and of this
only, thefunc1.closure does matter (it's a cell referencing that
int value, 99 in this case).  Perhaps that might help, though it
still takes QUITE a bit of work to exploit it.

However, I do not understand why you should fight "the system" (the
fact that the Python compiler KNOWS that 'a' is global in the first
and simpler use) -- why not just supply that dict you have as (some
part of) the globals...?


Alex




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Sep 14 12:13:19 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:13:19 GMT
Subject: Don your asbestos [was: Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)]
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org> <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <zs09b.5596$3Y2.1290@news2.central.cox.net>

"Harri Pesonen" <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message
news:EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083 at reader1.news.jippii.net...
[...]
> In my opinion, free threading
> is something that *must* be fixed. It is the biggest flaw in a language,
> which I falled in love with just a couple of weeks ago.

I've been keeping quiet about this thread for a while now, and have even
deleted a couple of curmudgeonly draft responses to earlier postings of
yours. However, you've now managed to generate a curmudgeon-trigger event.
The key phrase above is "In my opinion". Apparently you hold your own
opinion in high regard.

Since you only fell in live with Python a couple of weeks ago, it behooves
you to do rather more research than you apparently have before telling its
long-term live-in partners what's wrong with the language and how to fix it.

Just as a matter of interest, have you searched the archives for previous
discussions about implementing free-threading in Python? If so, your
opinions seem apparently untouched by what you would have read.

> And the flaw is
> not in the language, but just in the implementation. I like Python so
> much that I plan to do all my future developing with it, as much as is
> possible. But when I found out about the C API internals, global
> interpreter lock, thread state locking and so on, I was very
> disappointed. So disappointed that I decided to do something to it, at
> some point, perhaps in six months, when I have more time. Meanwhile, I
> hope that someone has heard what I said, and perhaps does something to
> it. It is the biggest problem in the best language there is at the moment.
>
The traditional response to such gushings, which I believe has already come
your way via both python-dev and this newsgroup, is "post a patch". Please
realise that it's only *your* opinion that this is Python's biggest problem.
It may well be a problem for the applications you want to write in it, but
believe me when I tell you, if it were a real problem for the majority of
users it would already have been addressed by some of the better minds in
the software development community.

A little humility wouldn't hurt. comp.lang.python is a very tolerant
newsgroup (when I'm not posting :-) but you are in danger of being perceived
as arrogant and thoughtless.

which-for-all-i-know-you-are-not-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 04:26:03 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:26:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <Xns94065ED29F882duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

tertius <tcronj at ananzi.co.za> wrote in 
news:3f793544$0$64721 at hades.is.co.za:

> Is there a better way to append certain chars in a string with a 
> backslash that the example below?
> 
> chr = "#$%^&_{}"          # special chars to look out for
> str = "123 45^ & 00 0_"   # string to convert
> n = ""                    # init new string
> for i in str:
>      if i in chr:          # if special character in str
>          n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
>      n+=i
> print "old:",str
> print "new:",n
> 
Not using builtins as variable names would be better for a start. 'chr' is 
a builtin function, 'str' is a builtin type.

Building a string by appending characters is never a good idea, if you try 
this code with longer strings you will rapidly find it grinds to a halt. 
The Pythonic way to build up a string from substrings is either to use 
str.join on a list of strings, or to use StringIO.

Regular expressions are rarely the best solution to a problem, but in this 
case it seems they could be:

>>> import re
>>> myStr = "123 45^ & 00 0_"
>>> print re.sub("([#$%^&_{}])", r"\\\1", myStr)
123 45\^ \& 00 0\_

The only real catch is that if your list of special characters is variable 
and sometimes contains ']' you have a bit of work to build the regular 
expression.

A solution without regular expressions (so it works for any string of 
special characters) would be:

>>> specialChars = "#$%^&_{}"
>>> myStr = "123 45^ & 00 0_"
>>> specials = dict([(c, '\\'+c) for c in specialChars])
>>> print str.join('', [ specials.get(c, c) for c in myStr ])
123 45\^ \& 00 0\_

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 04:34:34 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:34:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <3F68CB67.5000409@aon.at>
Message-ID: <Xns93FA60D23AE46duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Gregor Lingl <glingl at aon.at> wrote in news:3F68CB67.5000409 at aon.at:

> On the other side the existence and knowledge of the None-object
> doesn't disappear completely in the plain Python interpreter:
> 
> >>> None = 3
><stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
> >>> None
> 3
> >>> def f():
> ...     pass
> ...
> >>> print f()
> None
> 
> But:
> 
> >>> def g():
> ...     return None
> ...
> >>> g()
> 3
> 
> So you can use f to restore the value of None
> (if you happened to forget to save it):
> 
> >>> None = f()
><stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
> >>> None
> >>> print None
> None

Or, much more easily, you could simply use 'del None' to remove the global 
None you defined leaving the builtin None visible again.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Sep 16 19:17:14 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:17:14 -0400
Subject: When passing functions as args,      how to pass extra args for passed function?
References: <mailman.1063746594.3920.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XQM9b.1755$Ie5.334063@news20.bellglobal.com>

<python at sarcastic-horse.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063746594.3920.python-list at python.org...
> When I pass a function as an arg, like for map(...), how do I pass args to
> use for that function?
>
> If I have a function like this:
>
> def pretty_format(f, fmt='%0.3f'):
>     return fmt % f
>
> I want to use it with map() like this:
>
> formatted = map(pretty_format, unformatted_list)
> #exept I want fmt='%4.5f' !!!
>
> I need to figure out how to pass a non-default value for fmt.  How do I do
> that?
>
>
>


Here's one way:

formatted = map(lambda f: pretty_format(f, fmt='%4.5f'), unformatted_list)


And, here's another (requires itertools, available in Python 2.3 [*]):

from itertools import repeat
formatted = map(pretty_format, unformated_list, repeat('%4.5f'))


[*]
# or you can roll your own,
# credit: http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/itertools-functions.html
def repeat(object, times=None):
         if times is None:
             while True:
                 yield object
         else:
             for i in xrange(times):
                 yield object

# may need 'from __future__ import generators' at top of file

HTH
Sean





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 13:08:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 18:08:59 +0100
Subject: problem using urllib2: \n
References: <7cb14f9.0309230800.8d3a28b@posting.google.com> <874qz3cqs2.fsf@pobox.com> <7cb14f9.0309240031.7f232c8d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87d6dq2jx0.fsf@pobox.com>

bmiras at yahoo.com writes:

> jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<874qz3cqs2.fsf at pobox.com>...
[...]
> I've done a wrong copy/paste
> there is no additional \n after Authorization field
> but there an additional \n for Proxy-Authorization
> 
> I've used HTTPBasicAuthHandler since you said the code is different
> and it worked fine!!!
> I think the conclusion is that the strip call in the ProxyHandler code
> is missing. Is it necessary to report it as a bug?

Yes.  Please report it to sourceforge, remembering to check that
nobody else already has.  The correct version of the duplicated code
should be factored out into a function.

To help future users, it would be really useful if you could do this
too:

[...]
> > If you get this working, please look at the doc patch here
> > 
> > http://www.python.org/sf/798244
> > 
> > 
> > test it, and post a comment to say whether or not it's correct (and
> > which examples you tried -- preferably all of them ;).

Won't take you long, since you already have your code working.


John



From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Sun Sep 14 15:33:57 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:33:57 -0400
Subject: embedding python code in html, like PHP
Message-ID: <20030914153357.48493bb6.python@sarcastic-horse.com>

Hi-

Is there a python module that will allow me to embed code into an html
document, sort of like php?

Thanks.




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep  9 03:39:38 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:39:38 +0300
Subject: datetime: .datetime-.datetime = .timedelta, .time-.time=TypeError ?
References: <esuolvc6tuuhfub8jtobffv722281t7p56@4ax.com> <mailman.1063083624.8315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fc0rlv8j6404s4k2l1f2c3ajhvnmjmodf8@4ax.com>

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:57:46 -0400, rumours say that "Tim Peters"
<tim.one at comcast.net> might have written:

>[Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou]
>> Is there any reason for datetime.time subtraction not returning a
>> datetime.timedelta object, just like datetime.datetime subtraction
>> does?
>
>Guido didn't want time objects participating in arithmetic because the
>desired semantics are unclear.  For example, if you allow
>
>    time1 - time2
>
>to return a timedelta, then you'll also want to allow
>
>    time2 + timedelta
>
>to return a time, and then you've got to make up rules for what happens when
>adding spills over a midnight boundary.  Should it "wrap around"?  Raise
>OverflowError?  Guido didn't want to endure arguments about that.

So it's by design.

[snip of the above not applying to datetime objects]

>> It doesn't feel good having to use dumb year, month, day
>> arguments constructing datetime object when doing only time
>> arithmetic.
>
>What's wrong with using timedeltas?
>
>>>> print timedelta(hours=3, minutes=15) - timedelta(hours=2, minutes=45)
>0:30:00

A perfectly clear solution; it's just the RTFM-F [1] virus, I overlooked
the keyword arguments...

>> If there is no specific reason apart from lack of time (no pun), I'm
>> willing to research it and write a patch (I haven't seen the code,
>> but I believe it would be quite easy).
>
>Selling it would be harder than writing it.

Basically, I asked for some reasoning --which you provided in the first
paragraphs of your reply-- just in case the issue was overlooked; since
it wasn't (and I got a solution!), I'm OK and not at all anxious to sell
a patch :)

Thanks.

[1] final F standing for First
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com  Tue Sep  9 10:35:27 2003
From: axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com (Axel Straschil)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:35:27 +0200
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
References: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <pan.2003.09.09.13.16.06.415215@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <slrnblrp9e.i81.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>

Hello!

> BTW, I used to waste a lot of time with xslt. 

Jep, hard work for eight lines:
from Ft.Lib.Uri import OsPathToUri
from Ft.Xml import InputSource
from Ft.Xml.Xslt.Processor import Processor
STY = InputSource.DefaultFactory.fromUri('test.xsl')
SRC = InputSource.DefaultFactory.fromUri('test.xml')
proc = Processor()
proc.appendStylesheet(STY)
print proc.run(SRC)

> I think you are most of the time quicker with SAX for
> parsing XML and "print" to create XML.

It's for an CMS-System. I think XML and XLST is a good thing
if programmer and webdesigner have to work together, and you
realy want to seperate the content from the design
(Even when I think god had a bad day when he craeted 
webdesigner ;-).

Lg,
AXEL.



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 19:41:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 00:41:59 +0100
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:
[...]
> Hofstadter: Goedel Escher Bach
> 
> which probably everybody of our age has read but maybe not the younger
> generation ;-) And it is still entertaining, especially in a hospital...

Even better hospital reading material: Metamagical Themas.  Fantastic
stuff.  It's a collection of his Scientific American articles (he took
over Martin Gardner's column, "Mathematical Games" for a while,
anagram-izing the name in the process), with very worthwhile added
notes that weren't in the original columns.

I'm still waiting for his book "How to judge a book by its cover".
Perhaps it will include a chapter on extracting information from
unsupported negative opinions in USENET groups.  ;-)

Q. Why did Douglas Hofstadter cross the road?









[SPOILER SPACE]













































[SPOILER SPACE]



























A. In order to make this joke possible.


(joke credit: Eric Drexler, apparently)


John



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 08:04:00 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:04:00 -0400
Subject: Python port to Swiss Ephemeris work with 2.3?
References: <734b753f.0309041612.2066021@posting.google.com> <vlfqpk4hup6621@news.supernews.com> <734b753f.0309042237.5ded1230@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlgutinh4i8l12@news.supernews.com>

"Dave" <bluheaven2 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:734b753f.0309042237.5ded1230 at posting.google.com...
> > There's a Python port in the Vaults? Great!!! I'll see what I can figure
> > out about it. At a rough guess, it has to be recompiled for the new
version.
> > BTW - have you checked on the Swiss Ephemeris mailing list? Who's the
author?
> > John Roth
>
> Joshua Solomon is quoted as the author in the readme file.
> I didn't know there was a Swiss list, and I just did a websearch and
> got their address (swisseph at astro.ch).  I will post there, too.  For
> now, I reinstalled
> 2.2.2 and also downloaded the updated IdleFork which gives me the 2.3
> IDE
> while running 2.2.  But, since 2.3 is supposed to be 20-30% faster, it
> would
> be nice if the port worked with that.  Let me know if you have any
> more
> advice or info.  Thanks -Dave

I found it on the Vaults under the Misc heading. Looks good.
Looks a lot better than my interface.

You need to recompile using the same compiler that Python
was compiled with (I believe that's VC 6 for the Windows version.)
Extension modules ***always*** need to be recompiled for major
Python releases.

John Roth





From Al at nospam.com  Tue Sep 23 02:48:02 2003
From: Al at nospam.com (Al)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:48:02 -0400
Subject: compiling python program
Message-ID: <jVRbb.1943$Fq.1235@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>

I'd like to "hide" my code from being viewed (linux). Is there anyway for me
to compile my program into .pyc and only have the .pyc files available, or
do I always have to have the .py file?

thanks in advance!!
Al (newbie!!)






From glingl at aon.at  Mon Sep  8 07:41:02 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:41:02 +0200
Subject: GIFs Using Tkinter
Message-ID: <3f5c6b2f$0$20870$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

I'm trying to use recipe 9.5 from Python Cookbook, which suggests
to read gifs from files using base64.encodestring in order to embed 
those images into my sourcecode.

I've prepared some 20 gifs with Photoshop which are all merely
rotated versions of some "master"-gif. (They all are produced in
exactly the same way and have (255,255,255) as transparent color.)

They all can be used as Tkinter PhotoImages with the file-option
perfectly well.

However, if I try to use the data-option with strings constructed
from those same gifs according to the recipe mentioned above,
I observe, that among those gif-images
(1) some can be displayed correctly (more than 50%)
(2) some are corrupted and are displayed with stripes or other
artefacts.
(3) and some result in strings only a few characters long
which cannot be interpreted as image-data at all.

What could be the reason for this annoying behaviour and how
can I avoid it.

Thanks in advance

Gregor




From colarte at telesat.com.co  Thu Sep  4 16:14:24 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (colarte at telesat.com.co)
Date: Thu,  4 Sep 2003 15:14:24 -0500
Subject: newbie question
In-Reply-To: <1062696320.1182.60.camel@christophl>
References: <1062696320.1182.60.camel@christophl>
Message-ID: <1062706464.3f579d20677e0@ilpostino3.telesat.com.co>

I think you can do something like this, the key of the "parsing" is using the 
split function from the string module, 


<file data.dat>
aa juan
bb pedro
cc pablo
</file data.dat>


<PythonCode>
import string
myfile = "./data.dat"

liststr1 = []
liststr2 = []

for line in open(myfile, 'r').readlines():
    arrTmp = string.split(line, " ")
    liststr1.append(arrTmp[0])
    liststr2.append(arrTmp[1][:-1])  #  arrTmp[1][:-1] remove \n

print liststr1, liststr2

</PythonCode>

.i hope this helps .

Camilo Olarte



Mensaje citado por Christoph Lehmann <christoph.lehmann at gmx.ch>:

> hi
> I need to read in a textfile, where in each line are two strings:
> 
> e.g
> 
> aa 1
> bb 0
> cc 1
> aa 0
> dd 0
> 
> 
> how can I read in each line and put the first string into one variable,
> the second into another variable
> 
> with just one string per line, I did:
> 
> f = open(myfile, 'r')
> for filename in f.readlines():
>     mylist.append(string.rstrip(filename))                   #remove \n
> or \r\n
> f.close()
> 
> many thanks
> -- 
> Christoph Lehmann <christoph.lehmann at gmx.ch>
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

Telesat, m?s f?cil...m?s Internet.
http://www.telesat.com.co/




From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 15:16:46 2003
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 12:16:46 -0700
Subject: python module for MS SQL Server 7 or 2000?
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0309071116.6f080c95@posting.google.com>

I have searched and only found references to using ODBC or some
ancient posts about some ancient sybase library under linux, neither
of which meets my critiera.

I need something that will cross platform without any of these
dependancies?

Does it exist?



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Sep 21 22:38:08 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:38:08 -0500
Subject: Where does sys.path get initialized
In-Reply-To: <qOsbb.42572$xx4.5050233@twister.neo.rr.com>
References: <qOsbb.42572$xx4.5050233@twister.neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20030922023802.GA28986@unpythonic.net>

It comes from the value of the PYTHONPATH environment variable, the
location of the script being executed (or the current directory, for an
interactive interpreter), an installation path or paths, and the "site"
module.  On Windows, an environment key may be involved, but I am not
aware of any specifics.

http://python.org/doc/lib/module-sys.html#l2h-352
http://python.org/doc/lib/module-site.html

Jeff




From williams13 at llnl.gov  Mon Sep 22 07:19:23 2003
From: williams13 at llnl.gov (Dean N. Williams)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:19:23 -0700
Subject: Installing Python and Tkinter on OSX
Message-ID: <9E2EF900-ECEE-11D7-8915-000393D607F4@llnl.gov>

Dear Python Help,

	I am trying to install Python with Tkinter on my Mac OS X PowerBook G4 
platform, but having some difficulties apparently with missing 
directories and files. I can build Python without Tkinter okay, but 
when I try to build with Tkinter it doesn't seem to build the 
appropriate directories or files. For example, in version Python 2.3b1, 
I have the directory build/lib.darwin-6.6-Power_Macintosh-2.3, which 
contains _tkinter.so. In the released version of Python 2.3, I no 
longer have the build/lib.darwin-6.6-Power_Macintosh-2.3 directory, 
which contains among other things the _tkinter.so file which I need for 
Tkinter to build.

	How can I get Python 2.3 to build with Tkinter? How can I get it to 
build the directory build/lib.darwin-6.6-Power_Macintosh-2.3? Is there 
something that I'm missing in the "configure"?

	Any help is most appreciated.....

Best regards,
	Dean





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 16:25:37 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:25:37 +0100
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>
Message-ID: <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:53:34 GMT, Dag <dag at velvet.net> wrote:

>Is there a python module that includes functions for working with prime 
>numbers?  I mainly need A function that returns the Nth prime number and 
>that returns how many prime numbers are less than N, but a prime number 
>tester would also be nice.  I'm dealing with numbers in the 10^6-10^8 range  
>so it would have to fairly efficient
>
>Dag

I just wrote a fairly simple sieve, which gave primes up to 1,000,000
in a few seconds (1.8GHz P4, Python code). There were 78498 primes in
that range (unless I screwed the code up, but it looked OK for smaller
ranges).

Going for 10^7 took too long for my patience, let alone 10^8, but at
least in theory there should be less than 100 times as many primes in
the range up to 10^8.

So here's the thought - a binary file containing a complete list of
primes up to 10^8 would require roughly 30MB (using 32 bit integers,
which should comfortably handle your requirement). Open in random
access and do a binary search to find a particular prime and the
position in the file should tell you how many primes are smaller than
that one.

30MB shouldn't be too prohibitive on todays machines, though if this
is to be distributed to other people there would of course be issues.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From grante at visi.com  Wed Sep 24 16:06:30 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 20:06:30 GMT
Subject: Why is ClientCookie/urllib2 using https?
Message-ID: <3f71f946$0$168$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In the program shown below, all of the connections to the
servers are using port 443 and https (TLS protocol) -- both the
initial connection to login.postini.com and subsequent
connections to user-3.postini.com.

It works, and I don't mind that it's encrypting the sessions as
well as the login, but I'd like understand why the connections
to "http://user-3.postini.com/exec/MsgCtr" are being done using
TLS to port 443 instead of raw TCP to port 80 as is implied by
the http: in the URL.

FWIW, it's a program to delete quarantined viruse-laden
messages from the server run by the Postini mail-filtering
service.  Viruses can only be deleted 10 at a time, and when
you've got 7000 of them, that's a hell of a lot of mouse
clicks.  When they're coming in 200-300 an hour, automating the
deleting process was the only reasonable solution.

---------------------------------8<---------------------------------
import re,sys
import ClientCookie
import urllib,urllib2

postData = urllib.urlencode({
'remember':'1',
'action':'login',
'email':sys.argv[1],
'pword':sys.argv[2]})

req1 = urllib2.Request("https://login.postini.com/exec/login",data=postData)
rsp1 = ClientCookie.urlopen(req1)

req2 = urllib2.Request("http://user-3.postini.com/exec/MsgCtr")
rsp2 = ClientCookie.urlopen(req2)

while 1:
    data = rsp2.read()
    
    m = re.search('<form name=virus .*</form>',data,re.M|re.S)
    if not m:
        print "no virus form found"
        sys.exit()
    vdata = m.group()

    m = re.search('Message 1 - [0-9]+ of [0-9]+',vdata,re.M|re.S)
    if not m:
        print "did not find message count"
        sys.exit()
    print m.group()
    
    r = re.compile('<input type="checkbox" name="msgid" value="([^"]*)">',re.M|re.S)
    m = r.findall(vdata)
    
    if not m:
        print "no virus msgids found"
        sys.exit()

    postData = urllib.urlencode({'submit':'Remove','disp':'M','action':'change_Msgs'})
    for msgid in m:
        postData += "&msgid="+msgid

    req2 = urllib2.Request("http://user-3.postini.com/exec/MsgCtr",postData)
    rsp2 = ClientCookie.urlopen(req2)

---------------------------------8<---------------------------------

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  He is the
                                  at               MELBA-BEING... the ANGEL
                               visi.com            CAKE... XEROX him... XEROX
                                                   him --



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Sep  5 20:51:07 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:51:07 -0400
Subject: Replacing python: in syslog log messages
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.05.20.59.24.934002@doe.com>
References: <pan.2003.09.05.20.59.24.934002@doe.com>
Message-ID: <20030906005107.GA2175@intarweb.us>

On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 09:01:41PM +0000, Brian Donovan wrote:
> Does anyone know a way to replace the python: in syslog messages?
> 
> As an example:
> 
> Currently I have:
> 
> Sep  5 16:57:03 typhoon python: jeeves_backup starting
> 
> I would like:
> 
> Sep  5 16:57:03 typhoon jeeves_backup: starting
> 

  Very roughly: at startup, if os.path.basename(sys.argv[0]) == "python",
os.execl() sys.executable with [sys.argv[1]] + sys.argv[1:] as the argument
list.


> Thanks
> 
> Brian
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
"Minerals are inexhaustible and will never be depleted. A stream of
investment creates additions to proved reserves, a very large in-ground
inventory, constantly renewed as it is extracted... How much was in the
ground at the start and how much will be left at the end are unknown and
irrelevant."  -- Morry Adelman, World Renowned Economist




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep  4 20:51:12 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:51:12 -0400
Subject: Anybody else having problem *sending* mail to this list?
References: <mailman.1062713657.19120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yuGcnUKAscCcQ8qiXTWJjA@comcast.com>

"Gerhard H?ring" <gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062713657.19120.python-list at python.org...
> On my mailserver (running a recent Postfix snapshot) I get this
since a
> few hours:
>
> mylene:/var# mailq
> -Queue ID- --Size-- ----Arrival Time---- -Sender/Recipient-------
> DA10713E37     1617 Wed Sep  3 11:32:46  gh at ghaering.de
> (lost connection with mail.python.org[12.155.117.29] while sending
end
> of data -- message may be sent more than once)
>                                           python-list at python.org
>
> However, using telnet to send mail to python-list on mail.python.org
> from the same host seems to work fine.
>
> Is there something strange going on?

Yes, a worldwide virus-induced mail blizzard.  Someone (Skip M. I
think) annouced yesterday or so that the Python mail server was down
for a breather.  Today, someone said it was backed-up, back up, but
slow.  Hence, this arrived at Giganews over a day after you sent it.

Terry





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep  8 11:26:37 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
References: <mailman.1062982932.16437.python-list@python.org> <87fzj7cvbv.fsf@pobox.com> <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3F5C9FAD.C584D3D7@engcorp.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:87fzj7cvbv.fsf at pobox.com...
> > It seems fairly clear by now that the purpose of the mockup was to
> 
> What we were directed to was *not* a mockup (model), but an image of a
> mockup.  That mislabeling was a source of misunderstanding which
> generated part of the criticism.  Please let us keep the useful
> distinction between a thing and an image of the thing.

There is no such hard-and-fast definition of "mockup".  You used
one interpretation, and a valid one at that, others have a different one,
equally valid.  

I do lots of prototyping and mocking-up of things and I see no 
difficulty in calling either approach a "mockup".  For those of you
who, perhaps, don't deal with mockups much, please understand that 
the term really just means "this is not the real thing, but exists
to encourage and assist discussion", and nothing more.

-Peter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Sep  6 15:47:07 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:47:07 -0400
Subject: [2.3] object does not appear to be a reserved word
References: <v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vlkeevoosut157@news.supernews.com>

"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8 at 4ax.com...
> Is it potentially dangerous to use the variable 'object' in code?

"object" is, I believe, a built-in type in the builtins namespace.
As such,  you can shadow it so it's inacessable. However,
the only place were that could cause problems is if you
use it as an identifier at the module level. I think.

John Roth
>
> Thanks,
> Daniel Klein





From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Sep 25 20:57:33 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:57:33 -0400
Subject: why the inconsistency?
In-Reply-To: <7h3eky52kc7.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEFJGCAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou'
>>> If only math.log(2**64)/math.log(10) worked with longs without
>>> converting them into floats first... :(
>>
>> And after reading the FM, if only
>>
>> def count_digits(x):
>>     return int(math.log(x, 10))
>>
>> worked correctly for *all* large values, like 10**70...

[Michael Hudson]
> Um, it does :-)
>
> >>> float(40**200)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float
> >>> math.log(40**200, 14)
> 279.56038792470861
>
> (10**70 is well within the range of an IEEE double).

You're not used to answering floating-point questions <wink>.  It's true
that, in recent Pythons, log(long) isn't limited to arguments that fit in a
machine double.  But Christos couldn't have been questioning that, since
10**70 wouldn't have given him an OverflowError even if Python were still so
limited (it used to be).

So the real complaint must be the result his function returns when fed
10**70.  The first thing to note is that count_digits(x) doesn't return the
number of decimal digits even for small x:

>>> count_digits(1)
0
>>> count_digits(9)
0
>>> count_digits(10)
1
>>>

It's returning what it was told to compute, though, so that's a bug in the
name of the function, or in its implementation.  10**70 has 71 digits in
reality, but from the short examples above we can infer that 70 was "the
expected" result.

So, is that what we get?  Can't tell from here:  Python is still calling the
platform C math functions, and their accuracy varies across platforms.  On
my platform right now,

>>> count_digits(10**70)
69
>>>

and that's because

>>> math.log(10**70, 10)
69.999999999999986
>>>

on this box.  Going on, and knowing that a C double has 53 bits of precision
on my box,

>>> math.frexp(_)
(0.54687499999999989, 7)
>>> hex(long(_[0] * 2**53))
'0x117FFFFFFFFFFFL'
>>>

So the result (69.999...) was the closest representable double strictly less
than 70, and that 1-bit rounding error ruins his day <wink>.

So it goes.  The math.log() trick can still be extremely useful in getting
the right answer with reasonable speed; we just have to recognize that f.p.
results may suffer small rounding errors, and compensate when they occur:

import math

def num_digits(x):
    """Number of digits in decimal representation of x.

    x must be an integer > 0.
    """

    # Get close fast.
    g = int(math.log(x, 10)) + 1
    # Refine.  Correct result must have
    # 10**(g-1) <= x < 10**g
    lower = 10**(g-1)
    if x < lower:
        print "guess too high"
        g -= 1
    elif x >= lower*10:
        print "guess too low"
        g += 1

    assert 10**(g-1) <= x < 10**g
    return g

Then, e.g.,

>>> num_digits(1)
1
>>> num_digits(9)
1
>>> num_digits(10)
2
>>> num_digits(10**70)
guess too low
71
>>> num_digits(10**70 - 1)
70
>>> num_digits(10**10000)
10001
>>> num_digits(10**10000 - 1)
guess too high
10000
>>>

all-obvious-to-the-most-casual-observer-ly y'rs  - tim





From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep  8 17:18:12 2003
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:18:12 +0100
Subject: exec code with timeout?
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062996311.6727.python-list@python.org>
 <Xns93EFE34728E26OKB@130.133.1.4>
 <mailman.1062999372.21845.python-list@python.org>
 <qaY6b.29120$hE5.1041098@news1.tin.it> <87n0dfcx7v.fsf@pobox.com>
 <9X_6b.44056$R32.1398393@news2.tin.it> <ad9fp9zg.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ad9fkmi3.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Paul Moore <pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> If
>    1. You run the code you want to interrupt in the main thread
>    2. You don't mind the interrupt being a KeyboardInterrupt exception
>
> then you can write the code in pure Python, as follows:

A module to wrap PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc isn't exactly hard, either.
Here's one in its entirety (async.c). I'm not sure I believe the
argument in the reference manual that this function is not exposed to
Python to avoid accidental mistakes - why not expose it, but with a
suitably "internal" name, and documentation warnings (much like
sys._getframe). It could easily be thread._async_exc(), for example.

Anyway, here's the code if it's of any interest...

Paul

#include <Python.h>

static PyObject *
async_exc(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject *exc;
    int id;
    int n;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "iO:async_exc", &id, &exc))
        return NULL;

    n = PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(id, exc);
    if (n > 1) {
        /* Problem - clear the exception... */
        PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(id, NULL);
	return NULL;
    }

    Py_INCREF(Py_None);
    return Py_None;
}

static PyMethodDef ModuleMethods[] = {
    {"async_exc",  async_exc, METH_VARARGS,
     "Raise an exception in the given thread."},
    {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}        /* Sentinel */
};

PyMODINIT_FUNC
initasync(void)
{
    Py_InitModule("async", ModuleMethods);
}

-- 
This signature intentionally left blank



From P at draigBrady.com  Fri Sep 12 09:37:52 2003
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:37:52 +0100
Subject: pygtk clist usage
In-Reply-To: <aW-dnTsEk5eRI_yiXTWJkw@fcc.net>
References: <vFqdnf3p0PyDIcOiXTWJhw@fcc.net> <Xyz7b.8398$NW3.3367@news1.central.cox.net> <aW-dnTsEk5eRI_yiXTWJkw@fcc.net>
Message-ID: <3F61CC30.2000702@draigBrady.com>

Ted Holden wrote:
> David M. Cook wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>BTW, CList is deprecated (meaning it will go away in the next major gtk
>>release).  ListStore/TreeView can be a bit hard to make the transition to,
>>though, as the documentation is rather scattered and fragmentary.  Best
>>sources of info are...
> 
> 
> I've been trying to take a look at the TreeView/ListStore model.  I mean,
> you've gotta be kidding.  Who do you expect to want to try to figure that
> out in order to use a simple listbox?

True, though I do think the flexibility is required. No free lunch and
all that. Examples always help:
http://liw.iki.fi/liw/texts/gtktreeview-tutorial.html

P?draig.




From a.edmondson at eris.qinetiq.com  Wed Sep 24 09:56:09 2003
From: a.edmondson at eris.qinetiq.com (Ed)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:56:09 +0100
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
Message-ID: <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com>

os.system('xyz') runs in a shell, and when it exits returns its exit status.
e.g.:
a=os.system('ls bogus_directory')
if bogus_directory exists then 'a' = 0, and if not 'a' = 1.

while 1:
        os.system('xyz')

will run the program xyz, and as soon as xyz exits it will run it again -
and so on.

-Ed

ataraxia2500 wrote:

> ok thanx I'm on linux, what I want  basically is the script to launch xyz
> and then check if it's running using os.system('xyz'), and if it's not
> running I want the script to relaunch xyz. So could u tell me please also
> how to launch or relaunch a programme please :)
>> 
>> If you're UNIX based:
>> 
>> os.system('xyz') will return the exit status of your program xyz.
>> More importantly for you, it will return!
>> 
>> So try an (ugly) loop like:
>> 
>> import os
>> while 1:
>>         os.system('xyz')
>> 
>> 
>> -Ed
>> 
>> ataraxia2500 wrote:
>> 
>>> I wanna do a script that launch a programm xyz and relaunch xyz if it
>>> crashes. what kind of module do I need for such a task?
>>

-- 
##############################################################################
Andrew Edmondson
PGP Key:
http://search.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEE814DC
PGP Fingerprint: 7B32 4D1E AC4F 29E2 9EAA 9550 1A3D BBA4 CEE8 14DC




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep 18 18:21:38 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:21:38 -0400
Subject: Binding frustration
References: <mailman.1063920805.24865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l4mcnWRY6vxusveiU-KYgg@comcast.com>

"Rob Hunter" <rob at cs.brown.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063920805.24865.python-list at python.org...
>      def inGenre(g): # g is a genre
>          if <here I test if "title" is of genre g (using a simple
Python
> dictionary I have collected from a mini web crawl)>:
>                result = result + [g] # if title is of genre g, then
add
> it to the accumulator
>
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before
assignment

When, within a function, you assign to a variable that has not been
declared global, then you implicitly declare that variable to be local
to the function -- in this case, inGenre().  But local var 'result'
has not previously been assigned a value within inGenre.  Hence the
error message.  As JCM said, try result.append(g).

Terry J. Reedy





From vincent at visualtrans.de  Wed Sep 24 14:13:16 2003
From: vincent at visualtrans.de (vincent wehren)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:13:16 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bksmrs$1u0$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Anthony Baxter" <anthony at interlink.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list at python.org...
| On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
| happy to announce the release of Python 2.3.1 (final).

Than why does the documentation (at least the Windows CHM-one) repeat the
claim:

"Release 2.4a0, documentation updated on 23 September 2003."  on each page!

;)

Vincent Wehren






From llothar at web.de  Fri Sep 19 05:00:49 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 02:00:49 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <Xns93FAC750B300Ek23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13> <3f6a2bd3$0$10998$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309190100.1e73f364@posting.google.com>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message news:<3f6a2bd3$0$10998$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk>...
> Hi
> You may or may know that BA is based on the Qt GUI Application Toolkit, so
> you problem with the duel monitor set up is something I shall take up with
> Trolltech. Unfortunately, none of use at theKompany run a duel monitor setup
> so it is something that we are not aware of. Thank you for bring up this
> problem and I will get back to you with a solution or our proposal for a
> solution

Today a dual monitor should be a normal environment for developers. I
hope you have at least a dual CPU system to test if BA works well on
multi processor machines (which you can't test on single CPU systems
well enough).



From thant at acm.org  Mon Sep  1 10:24:10 2003
From: thant at acm.org (Thant Tessman)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:24:10 -0600
Subject: Language categories
In-Reply-To: <vl63bokhnobnee@corp.supernews.com>
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <rqy2b.1796$_F1.202013@news20.bellglobal.com> <tyfsmno989n.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <sDJ2b.1909$_F1.271943@news20.bellglobal.com> <vl63bokhnobnee@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bivkor$m70$1@terabinaries.xmission.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <sDJ2b.1909$_F1.271943 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
> Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
> 
>>>"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>(Lisp, Dylan, Haskell, ocaml, or some other functional programming
>>>>language).
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> 
>>Okay. "..., or some other language that supports functional programming
>>style)" (which would include those mentioned, and many more besides). For
>>instance,
>>
>>http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Functional/?tc=1
>>Aleph (1)
>>BETA (8)
>>Caml (2)
>>Clean (6)
>>Dylan (19)    <
>>Erlang (313)
>>Haskell (48)    <
>>Leda (5)
>>Lisp (378)    <
>>Logo (46)
>>Lua (18)
>>Mercury (4)
>>Miranda (10)
>>ML (35)
>>Mozart (2)
>>Objective Caml (5)    <
>>Pliant (16)
>>POP-11 (6)
>>REBOL (95)
>>Scheme (127)
>>Sisal (12)
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> Someone needs to talk with the googlers; REBOL and Dylan
> are not functional languages.  And Lisp ... well, Lisp is
> universal, so let's let that pass.

Not to re-open that can o' worms, but last time I looked, Dylan 
supported functional programming style just fine. If memory serves, its 
word for 'lambda' is 'method.' I've never heard of REBOL.

-thant




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Sep  5 18:22:14 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 22:22:14 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <bjat11$70s$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bjb2am$pnt$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:51:10 +0200, "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote:

>
>"Grzegorz Staniak" <gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl>
>
>> I'm a newbie Python user, a systems administrator - I've been trying
>> to switch from Perl to Python for administrative tasks - and one thing
>> I cannot understand so far is why I need the special 'self' (or anything
>> esle) argument in class method definitions.
>
>You probably do not mean "class methods"; this a technical term in OOP.
>
I suspect the OP meant "class (method definitions)," not "(class method)" definitions." ;-)

Re "self," there must be a FAQ entry, but I'm too lazy to look for it.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From rowen at cesmail.net  Fri Sep 26 16:50:30 2003
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:50:30 -0700
Subject: safely closing a socket?
Message-ID: <rowen-BB1C2E.13503026092003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

I've been doing some socket programming with threads and am confused how 
to safely shut down a connection.

First of all, using the file-like object returned by urllib to do ftp 
file download (Python 2.3, MacOS X), I can hang the process by:
- using one thread to read the file-like object
- trying to close the connection in the main thread (while still 
downloading)
it's not clear to me what's hung, but it just sits there. No major CPU 
cycles being eaten. Some kind of deadlock, perhaps???

I've worked around the problem by setting a flag and having the read 
thread quit. But this can take quite awhile. Is there some fast safe way 
to terminate such a download?

Also, is this more generally an issue with sockets? Is it dangerous to 
close a socket while another thread may be reading or writing it?

Any hints or pointers to information would be much appreciated.

-- Russell



From juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net  Thu Sep  4 20:09:15 2003
From: juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net (Changjune Kim)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:09:15 +0900
Subject: Active Scripting in Python
References: <ba1e306f.0309032023.4038d00c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj8k8c$lpm$1@news.hananet.net>

"Jane Austine" <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba1e306f.0309032023.4038d00c at posting.google.com...
> I donwloaded win32all for Python 2.3 and installed it.
>
> I manually run pyscript.py and it returned "successfully registered"
> message.
>
> For a simple test(on client side), I created the following html:
>
> <script language=Python>
> alert("hello world")
> </script>
>
> And opened it in IE6.0 on WinXP.  Unfortunately, it doesn't show
> anything.
>
> After googling, I tried "pyscript.py --debug" and the trace collector
> shows:
>
> Object with win32trace dispatcher created (object=None)
>  in _InvokeEx_ with GetInterfaceSafetyOptions 0 1
> (IID('{BB1A2AE2-A4F9-11CF-8F20-00805F2CD064}'),) None None
> in _InvokeEx_ with GetInterfaceSafetyOptions 0 1
> (IID('{BB1A2AE1-A4F9-11CF-8F20-00805F2CD064}'),) None None
>
> Am I doing something stupid?
>
> Jane

Try pyscript_rexec.py instead, with the line 184(raise) of rexec.py
commented out.





From paul.moore at atosorigin.com  Mon Sep 15 11:07:07 2003
From: paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 08:07:07 -0700
Subject: Datetime utility functions
Message-ID: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com>

I was just writing some code which did date/time manipulations, and I
found that the Python 2.3 datetime module does not supply a number of
fairly basic functions. I understand the reasoning (the datetime
module provides a set of datatypes, and doesn't attempt to get into
the murky waters of date algorithms) but as these things can be quite
tricky to get right, I was wondering if anyone has already implemented
any date algorithms, or alternatively if I'd missed some easy way of
doing what I'm after.

My specific requirements were:

1. Get the last day of the month contatining a given date(time). I
really was surprised to find this one missing, as it seems to me that
the datetime module must know what the last day for each month is, so
exposing it wouldn't have been hard.

2. Add a number of months to a date. This is messy, as there are
options (what is one month after 31st Jan). The trouble is that the
calculation, while simple, is tricky to get right (month is 1-based,
so off-by-1 errors are easy to make, and divmod isn't as useful as
you'd first think).

Other "nice to have" functions which I didn't need for this program,
but which I have found useful in the past, are

- Round a date(time) to a {year,month,day,quarter,week,...} Or
truncate. Or (occasionally) chop to the next higher boundary
(ceiling).
- Calculate the number of {years,months,days,...} between two dates.
(Which is more or less the equivalent of rounding a timedelta).

These latter two aren't very well defined right now, because I have no
immediate use case.

In the absence of anything else, I'll probably write a "date
utilities" module for myself at some point. But I'd hate to be
reinventing the wheel.

Paul.



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 23 09:35:01 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:35:01 -0400
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <3F6F86A2.DC29472A@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix> <bkphss$o02@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3F704C05.2932235F@engcorp.com>

Richard Brodie wrote:
> 
> "Riccardo Attilio Galli" <riquito at riquito.matrix> wrote in message
> news:pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668 at riquito.matrix...
> > On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:32:50 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > I don't want to ask to the user every time the account password, but also
> > I don't want to store it as plain text.
> 
> > Do you know what is the usual practice in these cases?
> 
> The usual practice is to store the password in some trivially breakable encryption
> scheme, preserving some illusion of security.

Hah! :-)  True... sadly.

I'll say what I said a moment ago in the other response, but in a different way.

If it is possible to retrieve the plaintext password, whether because it was
stored in plaintext or because it was stored with some trivially breakable
encryption scheme (or even if it was stored with an incredibly sophisticated
encyprtion scheme), the system is broken.  Nobody, adminstrators included, 
should ever be able to retrieve the plaintext password of a user, and even with
a fancy encryption scheme, there is always a separate password or key which
can be used to reverse the encryption.

Use hashes.

-Peter



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep  8 17:38:56 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:38:56 -0500
Subject: Eureka!
In-Reply-To: <8LPX/kKkX89D092yn@gnosis.cx>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
        <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
        <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
        <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
        <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org>
        <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com>
        <8LPX/kKkX89D092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <16220.63216.458481.826762@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    David> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote previously:
    David> |* You can't tell ahead of time what site you are going to be redirected to.
    David> |  As a result, you lose complete freedom to choose whether or not you should
    David> |  follow the link.

    David> As Dave Brueck noted, the same is true of ANY URL.  I use a few
    David> redirects on my own website, ...

Ditto here, including a couple for pages that started out in my Python Bits
tree but migrated elsewhere, like to the Python Wiki.

Clearly the opportunity for abuse using tiny urls is somewhat higher because
they are much easier to create, but I've never had a problem.  You judge the
context and the presumed source of the URL and take your chances.

Skip




From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Sep 27 22:05:54 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:05:54 GMT
Subject: Important news For all webmaster,newsmaster
References: <U7qdb.80547$PD3.4801255@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <6mrdb.6136$RW4.449@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Wazo at that.bug.you.on.net.com> wrote:
> To fight Copyright and illegal usagers of Newsgroups
> it's recommand to set all you News server to receive and send
> only 32 kbytes of article for all newsgroups (250 lines)

Well that would restrict about 2/3rd of Alex's posts.  ;)

Actually, there's only post in the last couple weeks over
32Kb, and Alex has the 4th largest post at 14Kb.  Not
that a limit would change anything; back in the old days,
newsreaders included features to merge uuencoded binaries
from multiple, smaller postings.  I've not needed it now
that the web is a much better source for posting large
files.  But for that old time feel, search Google Groups
for "Python 0.9.1 part"
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22Python+0.9.1+part%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&start=10&sa=N&filter=0
and download all 20 parts (part 2 wasn't needed.).

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com

(Hah!  Knew I could make the response on-topic.)





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 12:21:53 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:21:53 +0300
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com> <mailman.1063726221.3418.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nqdemvkjvc90phibpee5fe7sidn5tfqpsm@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:28:58 -0400, rumours say that "Tim Peters"
<tim.one at comcast.net> might have written:

>[Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou]
>> I sent my own version without having seen your own --and mine might
>> seem obfuscated, compared to yours.  Only a minor suggestion: don't
>> use dt.replace, use dt.__class__ instead, since you wouldn't want your
>> function to have side-effects (that is, don't destroy the actual
>> object that dt is bound to.)
>
>It's OK to use replace:  datetime and date (also time and timedelta) objects
>are immutable -- their values can't be changed after initialization.  In
>particular, x.replace() doesn't mutate x.

In some strange, unprecedented and inexplicable way, you are right...
<sigh> ...again :)  RTFM-F virus not removed yet.

PS That bang thingie (!) in Ruby is pythonic.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 13:10:00 2003
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (Phil Schmidt)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 10:10:00 -0700
Subject: Money data type
References: <mailman.1063869263.25061.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <221e7b06.0309180910.79da3932@posting.google.com>

Try this:
-------------------------
import types

class USD:
    """
    This class represents money in US Dollars, does math on it,
    prints it, etc. All dollar amounts are stored in cents, and no
    fractional cents are allowed. Rounding is supported for fractional
    cent values that are passed in.
    """
    def __init__(self, value=0):
        """U.S. Dollars, stored in cents."""
        if isinstance(value, USD):
            self.value = value.value
        else:
            self.value = int(round(value * 100))

    def __repr__(self):
    	"""This is returns a string that may be exec'ed to get a duplicate."""
    	s = '%03i' % self.value
    	s = 'USD(%s.%s)' % (s[:-2], s[-2:])
    	return s
    
    def __str__(self):
    	"""return a nice formatted printable string"""
    	return '$%9.2f' % (float(self.value) / 100)

    def STR(self):
        """return a 'raw' formatted printable string"""
    	return '%0.2f' % (float(self.value) / 100)

    def __add__(self, value):
    	"""perform self + value"""
        # handle the case where value is a string
        if type(value) is types.StringType:
            return self.__str__() + value
        # otherwise it's assumed to be a numeric type
    	m = USD(value)
    	m.value += self.value
    	return m
    
    def __radd__(self, value):
    	"""perform value + self"""
        # handle the case where value is a string
        if type(value) is types.StringType:
            return value + self.__str__()
        # otherwise it's assumed to be a numeric type
    	m = USD(value)
    	m.value += self.value
    	return m
    
    def __sub__(self, value):
    	"""returns a USD instance containing the difference between self and value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	m.value = self.value - m.value
    	return m
    
    def __rsub__(self, value):
    	"""returns a USD instance containing the difference between value and self"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	m.value -= self.value
    	return m

    def __iadd__(self, value):
    	"""perform self += value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	self.value += m.value
    	return self

    def __isub__(self, value):
    	"""perform self -= value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	self.value -= m.value
    	return self
    
    def __neg__(self):
    	"""return negated self"""
    	m = USD()
    	m.value = -self.value
    	return m
    
    def __pos__(self):
    	"""return self"""
    	m = USD()
    	m.value = self.value
    	return m
    
    def __lt__(self, value):
    	"""perform self < value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	return self.value < m.value
    def __gt__(self, value):
    	"""perform self > value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	return self.value > m.value
    
    def __eq__(self, value):
    	"""perform self == value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	return self.value == m.value
    
    def __ne__(self, value):
    	"""perform self != value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	return self.value != m.value
    
    def __le__(self, value):
    	"""perform self < value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	return self.value <= m.value
    
    def __ge__(self, value):
    	"""perform self < value"""
    	m = USD(value)
    	return self.value >= m.value



From llothar at web.de  Sat Sep  6 19:34:21 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 16:34:21 -0700
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
References: <mailman.1062873250.31920.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309061534.5f8cf00f@posting.google.com>

Scott Chapman <scott_list at mischko.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062873250.31920.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm sure I'm not using the conventional names for this tool, more of a 
> cross-referencer?.  I couldn't find it on Google, I think for this reason.
> 
> I need a tool that will go through a python module (ClientForm in this case) 
> and allow me to specify a starting module to parse and tell me what all it 
> uses.
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to take ClientForm apart enough to pull out just the 
> html form parsing code in it and use it elsewhere.  It would be MUCH easier 
> when approaching someone elses code if I could see what all functions are 
> called by a given function, etc.

Because python is a dynamical typed non image language there is no
tool that can do this and there never will be any (at least one that
is not using heuristics or sampled data from previous runs).



From glingl at aon.at  Sun Sep 21 05:00:26 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:00:26 +0200
Subject: None???
In-Reply-To: <m2he37549i.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net>
References: <EV6bb.1834$iT4.1283814@news1.news.adelphia.net> <m2he37549i.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3F6D68AA.9070603@aon.at>

Heather Coppersmith schrieb:

> 
>>weekly_income = income/52
> 
> 
>>def compute(income, percent):
>>    result = income*percent/100
>>    print result
> 
Additionally please notice, that your program will produce
incorrect and probably at first irritating results:

**** example output: ****

How much do you make a year after taxes? 5199

What percent of your income do you want to put aside? 1

Ok, Gregor Lingl

This is how much you should put away a week:
$ 0

****

This comes from using integer-constants together with
inputting integers, which causes the /-operator to
perform integer division.

A simple way to avoid this would be to use 52.0 and
100.0 instead of 52 and 100

Regards,
Gregor




From donn at drizzle.com  Sat Sep 20 21:01:30 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:01:30 -0000
Subject: spam killing with poplib
References: <pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409@webone.com.au> <S02bb.43098$NM1.7449@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1064106088.798812@yasure>

Quoth "Phil Weldon" <pweldon at mindspring.com>:
| At best that will identify less than a third of the messages produced by
| this worm.  A permutating and mutating bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' message
| carrying the infection package is more common than the HTML message.  Either
| type is over 100 KBytes, and will quickly clog a mailbox.
|
| Expect the HTML message body, FROM and SUBJECT  to mutate also.

I've been getting one every two minutes or so for the last couple of
days, so I had to do something this morning.  Luckily I have shell
access and fairly conventional UNIX mail delivery, so I put in a
filter on delivery.  My criterion is nowhere near as complicated as
the rest of you folks, but after about 6 hours it caught 157 and
missed no more than a dozen.  I just look for 'boundary="[a-z]' in
the header.  Of course that could easily turn out to catch a legitimate
email ... but of course, with an attachment, and I don't want your
stupid Word document anyway.

The filter is 38 lines of awk (with comments), and a C program to
lock the folder and invoke the awk program.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From srijit at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 11:16:57 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 08:16:57 -0700
Subject: SciTE
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0309180716.17d73ae2@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I am unable to access http://www.scintilla.org/tags2api.py?
May I have a copy of the program?

Regards,
Srijit



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep  2 17:59:03 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 02 Sep 2003 22:59:03 +0100
Subject: htmllib.py and parsing malformed HTML
References: <G1T4b.2227$gJ.1163@bignews3.bellsouth.net> <bj1sh5$e9i7j$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <JP%4b.4205$tH.3863@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <873cfeyhqw.fsf@pobox.com>

KC <nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net> writes:

> Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> > Hi,
> > You could use tidy (http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/) before
> > you
> > parse the html.
> 
> I appreciate the suggestion but unfortunately this will not work well
> for me as the parser runs as part of a cron job.  I wouldn't be able
> to review the tidy error log in a timely fashion if there was a
> problem.
[...]

So, what about *your* code's error log (or the equivalent --
presumably an unhandled traceback)??  It's not obvious that your
solution (in a later post) will be any more robust than just piping
everything through HTMLTidy.  In fact, since you will find a great
variety of nonsense in 'HTML as deployed', it seems likely that
HTMLTidy will do the better job.


John



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep 29 16:41:43 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:41:43 +0200
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <5B71DD32-F2BB-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
References: <20030929142027.GA6750@nl.linux.org> <5B71DD32-F2BB-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <20030929204143.GA8765@nl.linux.org>

Rob Hunter wrote:
> On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 10:20 AM, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> >Rob Hunter wrote:
> >>How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
> >>
> >>One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x ==
> >>type(2387482734274)) and ...
> >>
> >>but this seems kludgy.  Any better way?
> >
> >Why do you want to do so?
> 
> 
> I am writing an interpreter, and my parser has to decide if an 
> expression is a number or not.

So you actually have a string...

Maybe you could do something like this:

if expr.strip("0123456789.e") == "": print "May be a number!"
if expr.strip("0123456789") == "": print "Surely a number!"

Gerrit.

-- 
249. If any one hire an ox, and God strike it that it die, the man who
hired it shall swear by God and be considered guiltless.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep  9 11:18:35 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:18:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.
Message-ID: <56665.199.169.240.132.1063120715.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-


My office produces a lot of charts based on time-series data.  We use MS
powerpoint and excel to make these charts.  The data gets updated
regularly, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to automate updating
the charts using these packages.  So, we spend a non-trivial amount of
time manually updating lots of spreadsheets to redraw the charts we need.

I hope to find some sort of python graphics library that can make charts
similar to Excel and Powerpoint, and then I can start automating these
tasks.

Here is an example of the charts we make:

http://www.sarcastic-horse.com/example.pdf #52k size file.

Are there any packages that can do similar charts?  I need to be able to
chart time-series data with occasional missing observations.  I also need
to be able to shade some regions of the charts, and add text titles,
captions and notes.

I'm (slowly) learning the reportlab package, and it looks good, but I
wanted to check if there was an even better solution out there.

Thanks for the help.




From bblancett at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 17 12:49:01 2003
From: bblancett at hotmail.com (Bill)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 09:49:01 -0700
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
Message-ID: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com>

I am trying to have the capability to email attachments. Specifically
I want to be able to email a specific attachment that I name that may
be a PDF document, text doc, etc. I already have a working piece of
code that emails jpg attachments but does not work with any other
types of attachments. Could someone tell me how to modify this code to
send other types of attachments like the one's stated above(especially
PDF's)? Also how do I determine the name of the attachment? Right now
it defaults to Attach0. Here is the current code I have below:
_________________________________________________
import sys, smtplib, MimeWriter, base64, StringIO

message = StringIO.StringIO()
writer = MimeWriter.MimeWriter(message)
writer.addheader('Subject', 'The Text test')
writer.startmultipartbody('mixed')

# start off with a text/plain part
part = writer.nextpart()
body = part.startbody('text/plain')
body.write('This is a picture of chess, enjoy :)')

# now add an image part
part = writer.nextpart()
part.addheader('Content-Transfer-Encoding', 'base64')
body = part.startbody('image/jpeg')
#body = part.startbody('text/plain')
base64.encode(open('c:\email\chess01.jpg', 'rb'), body)

# finish off
writer.lastpart()

# send the mail
smtp = smtplib.SMTP('fc.hbu.edu')
smtp.sendmail('bblancett at hbu.edu', 'bblancett at hbu.edu',
message.getvalue())
smtp.quit()
__________________________________________________________________________



From hankc at nospam.com  Fri Sep 19 00:36:54 2003
From: hankc at nospam.com (HankC)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 04:36:54 GMT
Subject: advice choosing IDE
References: <bhqe4p$23loq$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de> <bhqg84$11e$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f6a84c6.49006998@news.la.sbcglobal.net>

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:18:48 +0200, "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de>
wrote:

>
>Well, I think you will have a hard time ahead. No one who has ever used
>Delphi, VB or RealBasic can really understand in what poore shape Python
>(and Perl is no better) support is ;-)
>

I beg to differ.  I've been programming Delphi professionally for
about six years so I know the tool well.  For Win32 development of
*anything* other than device drivers it's hands down the best
development tool, IMO.

However, 'shape' can be determined by requirements.  I'm in the
process of switching to BOA/Python...

- Cross platform applications will make me a lot of money.

- Execution speed isn't a huge issue for me.

What's wrong with Borland/Delphi?

- Because of their rapidly expanding product line, including big money
makers like JBuilder, Delphi is getting less attention (waiting,
waiting for bug fixes)

- Kylix is virtually dead, and never was good for generally
distributed application development because of it's release cycle.

Granted, BOA/Python has nowhere near the polish of Delphi but OTOH
Python has better staying power and better cross-platform support.
>From my POV, Python is in better shape than Delphi (VB is in even
worse shape).



From jcjouffre at bigfoot.com  Thu Sep 18 05:25:23 2003
From: jcjouffre at bigfoot.com (jcj)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 02:25:23 -0700
Subject: variable to be transmitted from a CGI script to a module
Message-ID: <4568052b.0309180125.5fd4919a@posting.google.com>

hello,
is it possible to have something like :

script.cgi
#!/usr/local/bin/python
# -*-python-*-
global MY_VARIABLE
MY_VARIABLE = "myvalue"
import module1
module1.my_function()

module1.py
# -*-python-*-
global MY_VARIABLE
if MY_VARIABLE:
   print 'variable defined'
else:
   print 'variable NOT defined'
def my_function():
   print 'my_function'

when I try to compile the module, I obtain this message :
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "module1.py", line 3, in ?
    if MY_VARIABLE:
NameError: global name 'MY_VARIABLE' is not defined

same error when executing the python CGI script

thanks in advance

Jean-Claude



From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 23 09:17:54 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
In-Reply-To: <HDQbb.8077$hL1.2233@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030923131754.19143.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually, Perl does have a "super" construct.

Take this Python script:
class Base1(object):
    def method(self):
        print "Base1.method called"

class Base2(object): 
    def method(self):
        print "Base2.method called"

class Sub(Base1, Base2):
    def method(self):
        print "Sub.method called"
        super(Sub, self).method()

obj = Sub()
obj.method()

Sub.method is called, and it calls Base1.method (but not Base2.method).

This Perl script does exactly the same thing:
package Base1;

sub method {
    print "Base1::method called\n";
}

package Base2;

sub method {
    print "Base2::method called\n";
}

package Sub;
use base qw(Base1 Base2);
sub new {
    my $class = shift;
    my $self = {};
    bless $self, $class;
    return $self;
}  

sub method {
    my $self = shift;
    print "Sub::method called\n";
    $self->SUPER::method();
}

package main;

my $obj = new Sub();
$obj->method();


Actually, I think I like Perl's super-as-a-property-of-self a tad better than Python's
super-as-a-builtin.  Anyway, if you argue that Perl doesn't have this or that and aren't
sure, you could lose credibility if you're wrong.

Maybe you could find someone in your office well-versed in OO-Perl that's sympathetic. 
Or perhaps you could have a look at Manning's book on OO-Perl by Conway (the PDF is $21).

I don't think Perl's exception handling is very OO (if at all).  Also, errors can very
easily pass silently in Perl if you don't explicitly ask it to make a fuss.

I'd argue that Python's class syntax is simpler and more intuitive than Perl's, and that
should count for something.  If it didn't, everyone would follow the gtk+ folks and be
writing object oriented programs in C :)

(not bashing gtk+ at all, but you have to admit OO-C is unorthodox and a little bit of a
hack)

--- Raymond Hettinger <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> "Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
> news:roy-002696.23242122092003 at reader2.panix.com...
> > I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some
> > point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost
> > certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince
> > them otherwise.
> >
> > The basic design of the application is object oriented.  I've never used
> > Perl's OO features, so I'm not in a good position to make a comparison
> > of the two languages from an OO point of view.  Can somebody who's done
> > OOP in both Python and Perl help me out?
> >
> > I certainly know why Perl sucks in general, but for this purpose, I need
> > to specifically compare the OO features of the two.  I'm looking for
> > something more fundamental than "->{} is ugly".
> 
> If you're to find a major difference in OO implementations, it will likely
> be with Python's new style classes.  So, the advantages are:
> 
> * easy implementation of metaclasses through __metaclass__
> * super() for cooperative superclasses
> * a method resolution order that supports cooperative superclasses
>    and complex inheritance hierarchies
> * __slots__ for lightweight instances
> * o.__getattribute__ for easy intercepts of method calls and attribute lookup
> * descriptors which make easy work of otherwise hard tasks
> * the fruits of descriptors:  class methods, static methods, and properties
>    (which make it possible to avoid coding many getters and setters).
> 
> Other than the new-style gizmos, it's mostly the same candy in a different
> wrapper.
> 
> 
> Raymond Hettinger
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com  Tue Sep  9 15:52:03 2003
From: axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com (Axel Straschil)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:52:03 +0200
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
References: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <pan.2003.09.09.13.16.06.415215@thomas-guettler.de> <slrnblrp9e.i81.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <871xupg5uk.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <slrnblsbr3.lsj.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>

Hello!

> That looks like Python code to me, Axel, not XSLT <wink>.  It's

Yeah, I've ordered it, I've got it!

> writing the XSLT that's the pain, not interpreting it (though that can

Mhh, XSLT is not very usefull for programming, but I don't think that it 
hurts so much.

> XML is good because it's an widely-understood, easy-to-read,
> not-to-complicated, *non*-loathesome standard that gets the job done.
> XSLT... well, it's a standard.  And it has an 'X' in the name, of
> course, which is the killer feature <wink>.

I agree with you that all the X* things are an marketing killer feature.
Let mit tell you the little story how I came to the whole X-Biest:
Im programming with Zope/Python/PostgreSQL to produce dynamic content
for Webpages. I realy was fu**ed up of the whole PHP shit, where content
and source was sticked together. Zope makes thinks better, but not 
perfekt. I didn't want to switch to XSLT, becouse of speed. But I didn't
found anything better if you want to bring the content in an blackbox
to the webdesigner. I was also booring always digging around in the 
sources when the design of an site changed.
So, with XSLT, if design is changing, I don't care. I even don't care
about XSLT, becouse I should be the designers work to change it. I see
XLST as an "scripting language".

-- 
Lg,
Axel.



From dave at 3dex.com  Tue Sep 16 22:38:09 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 02:38:09 GMT
Subject: scoping with lambda in loops
References: <7f9e1817.0309161338.20fbdcbc@posting.google.com> <eppstein-D67C09.15312816092003@news.service.uci.edu> <KvP9b.49089$DZ.34699@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <lOP9b.23526$8g2.6805@news1.central.cox.net>

"martin z" <pxtl at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KvP9b.49089$DZ.34699 at news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> > a = []
> > for index in range(5):
> >     a.append(lambda index=index: index)
> >
> > or maybe more concisely
> >
> > a = [lambda index=index: index for index in range(5)]
>
> You know how Python is supposed to be executable pseudocode?  Well that
> stuff is farking ugly.  If I handed pseudocode like that into any TA in
one
> of my classes, I'd be toast.  Is there any way to do that in a legible
> manner?

The following reads pretty well to me:

>>> produce_value = lambda value: lambda: value
>>> a = [produce_value(index) for index in range(5)]
>>> a[3]()
3

Dave






From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Tue Sep 30 07:28:21 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:28:21 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF73123566F@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>



> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Mark Hahn [mailto:mark at hahnca.com]
> Envoy? : mardi 30 septembre 2003 06:39
> ? : python-list at python.org
> Objet : Re: [ANN] pylint-0.2
> 
> 
> They not only feel no need to document, they also feel no 
> need to follow ANN
> threads they start.
> 

Or they might just live in France (as in logilab.FR), have a different time schedule, and being in bed while you're posting that ! 
Or even not working today ! 
Or event not daily-reading c.l.p, but just fr.comp.lang.python.

As for the documentation, just go to logilab web site, as Peter H said.


--OPQ,
Long signature following....

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From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Sep 20 09:29:26 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 15:29:26 +0200
Subject: Help Compiling 64bit Python
References: <mailman.1064055636.13785.python-list@python.org> <m3brtf3dhp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1064061147.27406.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33cer37wp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

John Abel <john.abel at pa.press.net> writes:

> >>c++   -o python \
> >>                Modules/python.o \
> >>                libpython2.3.a -lresolv -lsocket -lnsl -lrt -ldl
> >>-lpthread   -lm
[...]
> I seem to be missing something really obvious here.  I've modified the
> Makefile so it looks like this:
> 
> CONFIG_ARGS=     'CC=gcc -mcpu=v9 -m64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE=1'
> 'LDFLAGS=-mcpu=v9 -m64'
> 
> ran the make, and it still comes up with the same error.  I've even
> tried running it with LDFLAGS=-64, with the same result.

The really obvious thing you are missing is that "c++" is used to link
python, so setting "CC" has no effect.

I really encourage you to read the Makefile.

Regards,
Martin



From zefram at wolverine.lohacker.invalid  Wed Sep 24 10:37:01 2003
From: zefram at wolverine.lohacker.invalid (Emmanuele Bassi)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:37:01 GMT
Subject: Pygtk, widget refreshing
References: <uoexbi6st.fsf@r2d2.rfc1149.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbn1n8b.3si.zefram@wolverine.lohacker.net>

* Arne Schwabe [2003-09-23 22:33]:

> But my problem is that this area is not updated while my program is running.
> Is there a way I can force pygtk to refresh to widgets?

while gtk.events_pending(): gtk.main_iteration()

Bye,
 Emmanuele.

-- 
Emmanuele Bassi            |       [ http://digilander.libero.it/ebassi/ ]
emmanuele.bassi(at)iol.it  |     Linux User #170621, http://counter.li.org
GnuPG Key fingerprint = 4DD0 C90D 4070 F071 5738  08BD 8ECC DB8F A432 0FF4



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Sep  5 10:35:02 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:35:02 -0400
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
References: <mailman.1062731175.11423.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <W8JW/ks/KzUI089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.1062731175.11423.python-list at python.org>,
Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:
>So submit the bugreport, but I'm guessing that slices will remain
>unhashable. IIRC, Guido felt that the risk of confusion (folks
>thinking that {}[1:2] would return some part or subset of the dict)
>was greater than the utility of using slices as keys in a dict
>(for which, I believe, he was unable to come up with a single
>plausible use case).

Anybody with one might have to settle for

    a_dict [repr (a_slice)] ...

        Regards.        Mel.



From steve at ferg.org  Tue Sep  2 09:17:09 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 06:17:09 -0700
Subject: Win32 documentation in CHM?
References: <mailman.1062285905.31279.python-list@python.org> <3f5262ea$0$1667$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl> <vl51fseg6mb6d9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0309020517.2107678e@posting.google.com>

> I built a CHM file for Python 2.3 ...
Got it!  Thanks mucho!



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Wed Sep 10 15:09:51 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:09:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com> <bjnslg$5fq$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <bjnstv$9m7$1@fred.mathworks.com>

JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:
> Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>> 1.  I pointed out that this is an advantage of the C# system, which I
>>     was proposing to imitate.
>>
>> : The C# solution uses a modifier keyword, but that keyword must be
>> : specified in both the function definition *and* the call. For
>> : instance...
>>
>> ...
>>
>> : The rationale for this in C#, I assume, is mostly about clarity and
>> : maintainability - the caller can't be surprised when value type
>> : parameters are changed in a function as he had to explicitly allow it.
>>
>>
>> 2.  You quoted the example I labelled as "(roughly) what I'd like to
>>     be able to do" and ignored the one where I adopted the C#
>>     approach...

> I enitirely missed the second half of your original post.  Oops.

And given that I wrote the same pseudo-Python as you without seeing it
or the C# code tells me I agree with your proposal :)



From david.bear at asu.edu  Mon Sep 22 21:29:08 2003
From: david.bear at asu.edu (David Bear)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 18:29:08 -0700
Subject: parsing windows event files
Message-ID: <m3r828s36j.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>

I did a cursory look at google but couldn't seem to find what I
wanted.

I need a script that can parse and create a proper record structure
for windows event logs that are saved as tab delimited format.

The event logs they produce seem unnecessarily complicated.  Was
hoping someone had already made something like this.  I'd like to
avoid using win32api.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep  2 13:44:38 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:44:38 -0400
Subject: **kwds behavior?
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com> <2S25b.841$I_2.211334@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <6DqdnYAKS6SbSsmiXTWJhA@comcast.com>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:2S25b.841$I_2.211334 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> better if attempting to write to an non-writable dict raised an
exception,
> but that is not the current behaviour.

The dict returned by locals(), even within a function, *is* writable

>>> def f():
...   l = locals()
...   l[5] = 6
...   print l
...
>>> f()
{5: 6}

However, it is only a dict copy of the local namespace, (which in
CPython happens to not be a dict of any sort).

> So, your call to update has no effect
> on the local namespace and, thus, 'x' is not yet defined locally.

So d=locals() can be used for what it is -- a dict initialized from
the local namespace at a particular time, but which is thereafter
independent from the local namespace.

Terry J. Reedy





From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 11 18:57:10 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:57:10 +0200
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <mailman.1063300996.11325.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjqukl$298$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Chermside wrote:

>>> if copying is costly and only
>> sometimes necessary, wrap the item into a copy-on-write proxy for every
>> logically distinct but physically identical instance.
> 
> Excellent idea! But, how do I write a copy-on-write proxy in Python?
> Seems like this would make an excellent cookbook recipie, but I couldn't
> figure out how to do it. Proxying is easy, but how does one distinguish
> between mutating and non-mutating methods? Does the proxy need to be
> customized for each class to be wrapped?
> 

I have to admit that the generic copy-on-write proxy is still vaporware :-(
However, I've come up with a way to make a class its own proxy, with
relatively small overhead and no need for advanced stuff like metaclasses
(which I have yet to master).

class COW(object):
    def __init__(self, template=None):
        self._template = template
    def __getattribute__(self, name):
        try:
            return object.__getattribute__(self, name)
        except AttributeError:
            return getattr(self._template, name)
    def __str__(self):
        return "--%s---\n" % self._name + "\n".join(["%s = %r" % (n,      
            getattr(self, n)) for n in "a b".split()])
    def proxy(self):
        return COW(self)

def printBoth():
    print "%s\n\n%s\n---\n" % (o1, o2)

o1 = COW()
o1.a = "default A"
o1.b = "default B"
o1._name = "Obj1"

o2 = o1.proxy() # same as o2 = COW(o1)
o2._name = "Obj2"
printBoth()

o1.a = "override" # seen in both o1 and o2
printBoth()

o2.a = "shade" # hides o1.a
printBoth()

del o2.a # o1.a visible again
printBoth()

print o2.nonExistent # misleading error message

All methods are identical for proxy and original by design. Attributes are
rather shaded than copied, and thus there is no need to copy the whole
attribute set if two instances differ only in a single attribute.
The overhead in the class definition is not that large: one method plus one
attribute.

There are some loose ends:
- Should mutable attributes be recursively proxied?
- How does the above behave in an inheritance tree?
- Performance may suffer as the "proxy chain" grows
- I've got a hunch that one could come up with an even more general/less
intrusive solution using metaclasses

Always-speculatingly yours,
Peter



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep 26 13:09:42 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 18:09:42 +0100
Subject: Access to database other web sites
References: <b125f336.0309260753.189000d8@posting.google.com> <87n0crbi8z.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <87brt7xyqx.fsf@pobox.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> tibi87 at hanmail.net (Jenny) writes:
> 
> > I am doing research about realationship between sales rates and
> > discounted prices or recommendation frequency. To do this, I need to
> > access the database of commercial web sites via internet. I think this
[...]

Forgot to say: if you don't already know, Google Groups can be worth
its weight in round tuits.  Try some searches there, in
comp.lang.python, on the stuff I mentioned.


John



From johnfabel at btinternet.com  Sat Sep  6 04:56:32 2003
From: johnfabel at btinternet.com (John Abel)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:56:32 +0100
Subject: Standard Lib To Use New-Style Classes?
Message-ID: <3F59A140.30608@btinternet.com>

A while back, I saw a thread asking if the standard lib modules would be 
modified to use the new logging module, and it got me thinking.  As the 
new-style classes will be default for 2.4, will the standard lib modules 
be modified accordingly?

Thanks

John





From davecook at nowhere.net  Wed Sep  3 12:15:20 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:15:20 GMT
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sso5b.63141$0u4.41803@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7 at posting.google.com>, post400 wrote:

> there is another famous book 'Writing solid code' but does it apply to
> Python ? Or it's usable only by Microsoft C programmers ? The author
> seems to be an ex-Microsoft guy !

It mainly deals with C-specific issues.

http://tinyurl.com/m3ta

However, the Code Complete book by McConnel is quite general.

Dave Cook



From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep  1 07:21:31 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:21:31 GMT
Subject: method (a, b = '', *c, **d): gets a syntax error?
References: <3F4F644D.2060003@uni-bonn.de> <3dqcndZe5u2g4NKiXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bio47c$q2m$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> <bio5d1$13a6$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <7h33cfg4v0r.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andreas Neudecker <a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de> writes:

[comma inconsistencies]

> Still it puzzles me that in one case it is okay in the other one
> not. Seems unlogical to me. Can anyone enlighten me to why this is so?

Because that's what the grammar says.  The chances of this being
deliberate are, I would hazard, pretty tiny.

> Thanks to all of you who bothered to point me to my stupid error of
> forgetting the 'def' and discussing with me the comma problem.

If it's any consolation, it took quite a bit of staring at it before I
noticed the flaw...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I located the link but haven't bothered to re-read the article,
  preferring to post nonsense to usenet before checking my facts.
                                      -- Ben Wolfson, comp.lang.python



From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep  1 08:24:25 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:24:25 GMT
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <7h3oey43djh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Daniel R. Smorey Jr." <smory at ptdprolog.net> writes:

> I'm looking for a good place for Python documentation. 

In addition to what others said, there's Thomas Heller's pyhelp.cgi
thingy:

    http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/pyhelp.cgi

and Mark Hammond's Mozilla sidebar:

    http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/mozilla/index.html

(which provides an interface to Thomas' script).

> I'm really lost on why it's so hard to find anything when it comes
> to me looking up a particular function in Python.  My example would
> be the split() function of the string module.

You mean you weren't born knowing what that did?  Sheesh, kids these
days... <wink>.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Never meddle in the affairs of NT. It is slow to boot and quick to
  crash.                                             -- Stephen Harris
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Sep 23 00:00:32 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:00:32 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
 "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

> > Some more looping thoughts - this time on integer for loops...
> 
> Hi.
> How about the following:
> 
> for i in 0...10:
>     # suite
> 
> where 0...10 works something like xrange(10).

I can't find the message you're replying to, so am responding here only 
to yours.

I personally am uninterested in an integer for-loop syntax that is 
limited to the unintuitiveness of range and xrange's arguments -- 
they're great for looping forwards through the indices into a list, not 
so great for almost anything else.  If that's all the loop syntax can 
do, why not just keep the current "for i in range(10):" syntax?  
"Explicit is better than implicit."

But anyway, PEP 284 has been kind of moribund since Guido dissed it in 
his Parade of PEPs.  I'm not sure what (if anything) it would take to 
revive it, but convoluted syntax like "for i in 0...10.by(2):" is 
probably not it.  "for i in 0:10:2:" would be more Pythonic, but has a 
little ambiguity problem ("for i in 0:10:2" without the colon seems like 
it should execute the statement "2" ten times) and again doesn't add 
much in readability or power to what we can already do with range.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Sep 10 06:24:30 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 12:24:30 +0200
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com>
 <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com>
 <mailman.1063022712.4141.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wzy8wxym8x.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> (BG) wrote:

BG> On Win 2K the Task Scheduler writes a log file that appears to be encoded.
BG> The first line is:

BG> '\xff\xfe"\x00T\x00a\x00s\x00k\x00
BG> \x00S\x00c\x00h\x00e\x00d\x00u\x00l\x00e\x00r\x00
BG> \x00S\x00e\x00r\x00v\x00i\x00c\x00e\x00"\x00\r\x00\n'

BG> My goal is to read this file and process it using Python string
BG> processing.

BG> I am disappointed in the codecs module documentation. I had hoped to find
BG> the answer there, but can't.

BG> I presume this is an encoding, and that '\xff\xfe' defines the encoding.
BG> How does one map '\xff\xfe' to an "encoding".

It's Unicode, actually Little Endian UTF-16, which is the standard encoding
on Win2K. The '\xff\xfe' is the Byte Order mark (BOM) which signifies it
as Little Endian.

>>> import codecs
>>> codecs.BOM_UTF16_LE
'\xff\xfe'

But there is a trailing 0 byte missing (it should have an even number of
bytes, as each character occupies two bytes). Of course this comes because
you think a line ends with '\n', whereas in UTF-16LE it ends with '\n\x00'.
This also means you cannot read them with methods like readline().

>>> st='\xff\xfe"\x00T\x00a\x00s\x00k\x00 \x00S\x00c\x00h\x00e\x00d\x00u\x00l\x00e\x00r\x00 \x00S\x00e\x00r\x00v\x00i\x00c\x00e\x00"\x00\r\x00\n\x00'
>>> stu=unicode(st,"utf_16le")
>>> stu
u'"Task Scheduler Service"\r\n'
>>> stu.encode('iso-8859-1')
'"Task Scheduler Service"\r\n'

-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From indigomoonBLINDERS at bonbon.net  Wed Sep 17 10:13:07 2003
From: indigomoonBLINDERS at bonbon.net (Indigo Moon Man)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:13:07 -0600
Subject: Python exercises
References: <3d19203b.0309162207.153b9922@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk9q9q$qqeok$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>

Gordon <gcraib at hotmail.com> spake thusly:
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of some
> online exercises to help me learn to program (in Python).
>
> I'm currently working through Magnus Hetland's Practical Python, which
> doesn't have any exercises/problem sets (for the beginning chapters on
> things like string manipulation etc). I'd rather not get another book.
>

I'm a Python beginner and I'm working through 'How to Think Like a Computer
Scientist' at http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ and there are exercises
given as you go through the text to illustrate points.


-- 
Remove BLINDERS to email me.
Audio Bible Online:
http://www.audio-bible.com/





From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Sep 24 09:21:44 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:21:44 -0600
Subject: Stuck building a Python extension
In-Reply-To: <memo.20030925140741.2140G@forestfield.compulink.co.uk>
References: <memo.20030925140741.2140G@forestfield.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200309240721.44277.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 25 September 2003 07:07 am, David Hughes wrote:
> I'm nearly there building a Python extension module to access a set of
> functions in a .dll, but I'm getting an unresolved external error for one
> of the function calls (using MS Visual C++ V6).
[snip]

Hi David,

I apologize that this isn't a direct answer to your question, but have you 
tried using ctypes? If you're accessing functions in a Windows DLL then with 
ctypes you can often avoid writing a Python extension altogether. 

For example, if your DLL was named foo.dll and it had an exported C function

int MyFunc(int a, char *b) 

then calling it could be as simple as:

from ctypes import *
val = windll.foo.MyFunc(5, 'hello')

Much more convenient than writing an extension! :)

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

-Dave




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 04:22:05 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 01:22:05 -0700
Subject: Question: Inheritance from a buil-in type
References: <3F7848C6.8070306@snafu.de> <Xns9405A01F17467duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309300022.3c8e3304@posting.google.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message news:<Xns9405A01F17467duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>...

> 
> There are two rules. Generally, immutable objects get their initial values 
> from the constructor (__new__) while mutable objects are constructed with a 
> default value (e.g. empty list or dict) and are then set by the initialiser 
> (__init__) method. A few types which you might expect to be immutable are 
> actually mutable (e.g. property).
>

What is the thinking behind that? I mean you /can/ pass initial values
to a mutable using __new__,  eg

     class MyList (list) :
         def __new__(cls, *args, **kwargs) :
             return list.__new__(cls, *args, **kwargs)

or __init__ to pass values to a newly created immutable, eg

     class MyTuple (tuple) :
         def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs) :
             return super(tuple, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)

can't you?  What's the pitfall?



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 10:43:41 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:43:41 +0100
Subject: Equivalent of std::set
References: <tKXcb.75225$PD3.4793461@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <p1j8nv4hu2i9jn3g0mge0npbgpargqqhbk@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:07:20 -0400, Nicolas Fleury
<nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I haven't work so much in python and I was wondering what python 
>programmers use for string collections, like an equivalent of C++ 
>std::set.  Do you use a dictionary with dummy values?  Tuple/list?  Is 
>there any other structure in some module with uniqueness ensured and 
>lookup optimised?  I'm only interested in storing strings in that structure.
>
>Thx for help
>
>Nicolas

A set type was introduced in Python 2.3...

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/whatsnew23.html

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/lib/module-sets.html

There are other ways, depending on what you are doing with the
strings, though.

For instance, although you can iterate a set, the iteration will not
necessarily be in order (I assume it uses hashing internally, probably
by using a dictionary internally). If you need to access the strings
in order (and there aren't too many of them) you can keep the items in
a sorted list, in which case the bisect module will probably be a big
help.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From mwh at python.net  Thu Sep  4 09:41:25 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:41:25 GMT
Subject: built with --enable-shared but get error: libpython2.3.so.1.0: can't open shared object file
References: <ad2ca00b.0309040445.77c98c3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3vfs84qtt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

turner at mmedia.is (Douglass Turner) writes:

> Please release me from my own private hell.

OK, just install the non-shared library build.

> Platform: SuSE 8.1
> 
> I'm installing python 2.3 tarball as follows:
> 
> ./configure --enable-shared
> make
> make install
> 
> When I simply type:
> 
> % python
> 
> I get:
> 
> python: error while loading shared libraries: libpython2.3.so.1.0:
> cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
> 
> This is really, really, frustrating. The file does in fact live in
> /usr/local/lib.

Is that in /etc/ld.so.conf?  Maybe you should set LD_LIBRARY_RUN_PATH
(or whatever it's called).

> Interestingly this is outside PYTHONHOME. How do I fix this silly
> problem (which the python install process should *never* let happen
> in the first place).

Unclear what Python can do.  If you want to install a shared library
somewhere that the system doesn't look for it by default, you have to
do something to get it to look there.  I guess there's probably some
way of putting an absolute path in the executable, but that leads to
its own form of entertainment (like, I would imagine, not being able
to run the interpreter until you install it).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  It could be argued that since Suitespot is infinitely terrible,
  that anything else, by very definition of being anything else,
  is infinitely superior.                -- ".", alt.sysadmin.recovery



From timr at probo.com  Mon Sep  1 00:39:24 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:39:24 -0700
Subject: Pyhton 2.3 does not work
References: <3f504a34$1@news.012.net.il>
Message-ID: <48j5lv8hcfj9rfbd9dbn2g5p2gctlpdb1o@4ax.com>

"Avner Ben" <avner at skilldesign.com> wrote:
>
>I need help with Python 2.3 installation in Windows.
>
>I installed Python 2.3 on both my computers (one running Windows XP and the
>other running Windows 98), after first uninstalling Python 2.2.3. In both
>computers, Python 2.3. keeps looking for "python22.dll" and would not work.
>This happens when running IDLE and when running python.exe and trying to
>import anything.
>
>I removed all mentions of pyhton22.dll from the registry and repaired it
>(with Registry Mechanic) - no help.
>I looked at PYTHONPATH and it has no mention of python22.
>
>Obviously, there is something left in my configurations that uninstalling
>2.2.3 would not amend.
>
>The only extensions to Python installed earlier were py2exe and wxPython. I
>took care to uninstall them first.

Did you download 2.3-compatible versions of py2exe and wxPython?  wxPython
includes several DLLs.  Those DLLs include references to a specific version
of Python.  If you reinstall the 2.2 version of wxPython, the DLLs will try
to load python22.dll.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From mack at incise.org  Sat Sep  6 10:58:39 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:58:39 -0500
Subject: in CGI, how to include html pages?
In-Reply-To: <20030906110544.78d7ea33.python@sarcastic-horse.com>
References: <20030906110544.78d7ea33.python@sarcastic-horse.com>
Message-ID: <20030906145839.GL16821@incise.org>

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 11:05:44AM -0400, python wrote:
> Hi-
> 
> I'm writing some CGI stuff and I'm doing it in python to force myself to
> learn the language.  Anyway,  I want to include some html at the top of
> every page but I'm not sure how.
> 
> If the header is in header.html, what is the python-ese way of printing
> that out in my html?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

f = file("header.html")

for line in file:
  print line,

f.close()

And of course you could easily write a function to wrap this so you
could just include("header.html").

HTH,
-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
If you have a procedure with 10 parameters, you probably missed some.




From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Fri Sep  5 10:22:36 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:52:36 +0530
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
In-Reply-To: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>; from gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl on Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 01:58:41PM +0000
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
Message-ID: <20030905195236.A12223@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 01:58:41PM +0000, Grzegorz Staniak wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm a newbie Python user, a systems administrator - I've been trying
> to switch from Perl to Python for administrative tasks - and one thing 
> I cannot understand so far is why I need the special 'self' (or anything
> esle) argument in class method definitions. I might have missed an
> explanation in the docs, a quick Google search did not help. Is there
> somewhere on the web you could direct me to?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at zagiel.com.pl>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

The first argument in a class method is a reference to that class itself. It is
same as "this" pointer in c++ and java. Using this argument you can access the 
class variables. ex:

class test:
  def __init__(self,arg1,arg2): #this acts as class constructor
    self.name=arg1
    self.value=arg2


  def changeName(self,newName): #here we change the name class variable
    self.name=newName
  ..........and so on

regards
Vivek Kumar




From link0937 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 17 21:08:38 2003
From: link0937 at hotmail.com (Link)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:08:38 +0800
Subject: About Python's C API
Message-ID: <bkb0lu$dig$1@news.seed.net.tw>

Dear sir,

I am used to developing C program on MSVC7.0  platform.
This is my first time to use Python for calling by C program.
Now, it is hard to deal with the problem about extracting the variable
which be definied in Python.  That how can I do?

I have gotten the JPython 's sample that the following code can be looked.
Have anyone help me to obtain same results that be called by Python's C API?
What do I mean?

See attached the following code.

// JPython code
=======================================
import org.python.util.PythonInterpreter;
import org.python.core.*;

public class SimpleEmbedded {
    public static void main(String []args)
throws PyException
    {
PythonInterpreter interp =
    new PythonInterpreter();

System.out.println("Hello, brave new world");
interp.exec("import sys");
interp.exec("print sys");

interp.set("a", new PyInteger(42));
interp.exec("print a");
interp.exec("x = 2+2");
PyObject x = interp.get("x");

System.out.println("x: "+x);
System.out.println("Goodbye, cruel world");
    }
}


I would like to re-write those program to Python.

// C Language code ==============================
void main() {
    Py_Initialize();
    printf("Hello, brave new world");

    PyRun_SimpleString("import sys");
    PyRun_SimpleString("print sys");
    // interp.set("a", new PyInteger(42));

    PyRun_SimpleString("print a");
    PyRun_SimpleString("x = 2+2");
    // PyObject x = interp.get("x");
    // System.out.println("x: "+x);

    Py_Finalize();
    printf("Goodbye, cruel world");
}

See the above C Language code,

After running the statement PyRun_SimpleString("x = 2+2"),
the variable x can  be definied and be assigned value 4 in Python.

Meanwhile, next one, I would like to get the x porinter.

Could you help me how can I do?
Or show me the other way to reach my purpose.

Sincerely yours,
Link





From falted at openlc.org  Mon Sep  1 03:48:10 2003
From: falted at openlc.org (Francesc Alted)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 07:48:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Hunting a memory leak
References: <slrnbkucfq.41o.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <7h3oey84qho.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnbkv5h6.i5.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <slrnbkv748.on.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <vl147iqv8kk6da@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbl5udq.ua.falted@inspiron.openlc.org>

On 2003-08-30, Edward K. Ream <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:
>> I would appreciate some ideas.
>
> I doubt many people will be willing to rummage through your app's code to do
> your debugging for you.  Here are two general ideas:

Thanks for the words of encouragement. After the weekend I'm more fresh and
try to follow your suggestions (and those of Earl Nightingale ;-).

Cheers,

Francesc Alted



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sun Sep  7 01:51:37 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 22:51:37 -0700
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <bjecp7$rl5$1@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <vllhradketefad@corp.supernews.com>

Martin Maney wrote:
> They look very nice if you're just taking in the view: they look like
> crap if you want to actually read the content.  I've posted a more
> detailed complaint there, but in brief "I say it's spinach..."

Hey, I *like* spinach. :-)

But I'm glad I'm not the only one who is dismayed by the unreadable text in
this redesign. I got a chuckle out of your "getting just the right shade of
gray" and posted a follow-up with some more contrast measurements:

http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1

-Mike





From twic at urchin.earth.li  Tue Sep 23 11:52:18 2003
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:52:18 +0100
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
In-Reply-To: <roy-0278AD.09552423092003@reader2.panix.com>
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com> <3F7049D3.14C48D43@engcorp.com>
 <roy-0278AD.09552423092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309231646550.25500-100000@urchin.earth.li>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Roy Smith wrote:

> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
> > Roy Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some
> > > point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost
> > > certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince
> > > them otherwise.
> >
> > Do you need to convince them now, to allow you to continue working on it
> > in Python, or are you just preparing for the time when they will come and
> > ask for it to be done in Perl?
>
> The latter.  It's currently a bit of a skunk works project.  At some
> point, when the time comes to actually allocate resources to this, some
> PHB will undoubtedly declare that it has to be done in Perl.  At that
> point, I'll need to be able to argue coherently why that's a bad idea.

why will they want it rewritten? usually, management want to maximise
productive output and minimise cost. rewriting it would have a definite
positive cost, so either they think the perl version will be superior in
some way, or they think it will save costs later on. if you (or we) know
what their motives are, you (or we) can get closer to getting them to do
what we want.

tom

-- 
skills to pay the bills!




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 15 11:05:09 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:05:09 +0200
Subject: Loading modules at startup in IDLE
References: <fvibmv87kt3coi2utikqh9t04ap7nvp1e3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bk4kg5$h4q$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Daniel Klein wrote:

> Does anyone know a way to automatically load modules in IDLE at
> startup?
> 
> I can set %PYTHONSTARTUP% but this only works for the interactive
> prompt, not in IDLE. I tried doing the same thing with %IDLESTARTUP%
> but received no joy.
> 
> What am I missing? Or has this capability been removed on 2.3?


Quoth the usage message (idle -h):

-s         run $IDLESTARTUP or $PYTHONSTARTUP before anything else




From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Mon Sep  8 01:02:21 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 01:02:21 -0400
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0309072024.5b78b14e@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <c718a6cf.0309072024.5b78b14e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5C0D5D.5090000@teksavvy.com>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:

>"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list at python.org>...
>  
>
[snip]

>  
>
>>also
>>it's designed to project an image to set Python alongside existing 
>>enterprise programming langagues (apologies for using the e word)
>>    
>>
>
>try picking a web site that is useable over the graphical corporate
>fluff for the home page.
>
>then put a big obvious link that says, NON-TECHNICAL PEOPLE THAT WANT
>PYTHIN INFORMATION CLICK THIS! or some such thing.
>  
>

Here. I think I've solved the problem once and for all.

Rather than throw stones, I have created a *brand new design* design for 
Python.org. I am certain that will satisfy both the technical users and 
the suit-wearing investigators. It borrows the time-honoured stylings of 
the old Python site, and blends them with some upscale business moxy.

Take a look:

http://tinyurl.com/mlcv

Sorry, there's no comments page. Please send your opinions to the 
marketing SIG.

P.S. It's not an image! Feel free to check out my kewl HTML coding 
skills. I used CSS and everything.

Yours,

-- Graham






From edcjones at erols.com  Sat Sep 27 17:34:19 2003
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:34:19 -0400
Subject: Microbiology and/or image analysis tools
In-Reply-To: <45bbfad.0309271119.386ded65@posting.google.com>
References: <45bbfad.0309271119.386ded65@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl4vuh$9em$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

A good place to start is http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~cil/vision.html

In some fields of science, the data behind a paper is made accessible. 
In computer vision the data, in this case, software, is usually not 
available. In most cases, I think the authors don't want to bother 
making the software good enough for others to use.

BW Glitch wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've been searching on the web for microbiology and or image analysis
> tools in any language (but I would prefer to be in Python ;), but I
> haven't found anything useful. Almost every library I've found is
> commercial. The only one I've seen open source is OpenEV (
> http://openev.sourceforge.net/ ).
> 
> Is there any library open source available in these areas?
> 
> Thank you very much,
> 
> Andres Rosado




From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Tue Sep 16 17:48:45 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:48:45 -0500
Subject: scoping with lambda in loops
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624AE7@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Ian McMeans [mailto:imcmeans at telus.net] 
> 
> I was bitten by a bug today that depended on how lambda works. It took
> me quite a while to realize what was going on.
> 
> First, I made multiple lambda functions inside a loop, each of which
> depended on the current loop variable.
> 
> >>> a = []
> >>> for index in range(5):
> 	a.append(lambda: index)

      a.append(lambda index=index: index)

> Now, see if you can guess what the output was for each of the
> functions in the list a:
> >>> a[0](), a[1](), a[2](), a[3](), a[4]()
> I had expected it to be (0, 1, 2, 3, 4), but actually, it's:
> 
> (4, 4, 4, 4, 4)
> 
> This really surprised me. I guess what is happening is that each
> lambda knows what the context of execution is where it was defined,
> and doesn't actually evaluate until the function is called, and when
> it does evaluate, it uses the current value of the variable. 

yes.

> Is this related to static scoping? 

Probably... depending on what you're asking <wink>.

[...]

-- bjorn




From hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl  Tue Sep 16 09:27:23 2003
From: hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:27:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pipe problem
References: <9GH8b.2074$Cu3.689@edtnps84>
Message-ID: <slrnbme3tq.err.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:34:13 GMT, Doug <no.email.you.must.phone.me at fu.bar.ws> wrote:
> This works with a small string, but not a large one (read returns an 
> empty string if i pass a large html file to tidy):
> 
> 
> >>> iin , iiout = popen2("tidy.exe -asxml")
> >>> iin.write(str)
> >>> iin.close()
> >>> iiout.read()
> ''
> 
> I am using windows and tried the standard pipe and win32pipe as well.

Probably the standard pipe buffering problem.

As you know computer systems have a finite amount of memory, which is
used for many things, including buffering data written to a pipe.

The write(str) returns when you have written the entire contents out.
Since it is big, and tidy.exe also uses finite buffering, the latter
starts processing and returning data while you are writing. Since you
are not reading incoming data, the pipe in the other direction gets
full, tidy.exe becomes blocked, which in turn means your write() becomes
blocked.

Solution: read and write at the same time.


Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Sep 27 16:05:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 21:05:54 +0100
Subject: Access to database other web sites
References: <b125f336.0309260753.189000d8@posting.google.com> <87n0crbi8z.fsf@pobox.com> <vnbat5ma1ti9ae@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87eky2574t.fsf@pobox.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

> In article <87n0crbi8z.fsf at pobox.com>, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> >tibi87 at hanmail.net (Jenny) writes:
[...]
> I'm ... reserved about the prospects for the proposed research.  The commercial
> sites you want to study are, in my experience, some of the most difficult to
> "scrape".

Which (ATM, anyway) is a good reason for doing it with browser automation.


> Complementing that difficulty is the poverty of inference I antici-
> pate you'll be able to ground on what you find there; their commerce has a lot
> more noise than signal, as I see it.

What do you mean 'their commerce has more noise than signal'?


> 'Twould be great, though, for you to
> uncover something real.  Good luck.

What I was wondering was where the sales data are going to come from.


John



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 00:07:07 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:07:07 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <m2isnkduqt.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <oahvmvo9or3gar8jt6la8mvg7bd2gvjs7v@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:55:06 +1200, Paul Foley <see at below.invalid>
wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:47:03 +0100, Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> In terms of flexible loops, Ada is basically the Daddy.
>
>http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm

Ah - OK - Ada is basically the wannabe Daddy that still lags a long
way behind Lisp in terms of flexibility. But it's still way ahead of
the imperitive languages I'm most familiar with.

Sorry about that.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 10 17:03:45 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:03:45 +0300
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <mailman.1063223955.7295.python-list@python.org> <rHL7b.11618$NW3.4310@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <6a4vlvkjk3tttac61gg10gbtk8iah5457g@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:19:35 GMT, rumours say that "Dave Benjamin"
<dave at 3dex.com> might have written:

>> Perhaps a new Python statement "suck"?
>
>Oh come on, now, just because Java does it...

QOTW +1 :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Sep 28 16:42:21 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:42:21 -0400
Subject: overriding  built-ins
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vnehuscg5kf600@news.supernews.com>

"dan" <danbmil99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5 at posting.google.com...
> I really have two related questions.
>
> 1) Is it possible (without recompiling and changing the core Python
> behavior) to write functions that utilize the same syntax as built-in
> functions?  IE, can I create a function that does this:
>
> >>>printCaps "hello"          #note no parentheses
> HELLO

There is no special syntax for built-in functions.
If you really meant your example the way you wrote it,
that's a statement, not a function, in which case the answer
is a categorical no.

Built-in functions are simply functions that are in a special
dictionary that Python searches after not finding the requested
function anywhere else. If you want to replace one, feel free.
Then don't feel slighted when nobody else wants to deal with
your program... [grin.]

The Python developers are considering making at least some
built-ins immutable and not overridable, though. That is, not changable at
run time.
The reason is performance - a large number of built-ins are
simply calls to magic methods, so there's a performance gain
to avoiding the search and extra method invocation required
to go through the built-in dictionary for functions like len().

> 2) Is it possible to do this with the built-in keywords themselves, ie
> override functions such as print?

No.

John Roth
>
> thanks in advance -





From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Wed Sep 10 15:05:20 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:05:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bjnslg$5fq$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

> 1.  I pointed out that this is an advantage of the C# system, which I
>     was proposing to imitate.
>
> : The C# solution uses a modifier keyword, but that keyword must be
> : specified in both the function definition *and* the call. For
> : instance...
>
> ...
>
> : The rationale for this in C#, I assume, is mostly about clarity and
> : maintainability - the caller can't be surprised when value type
> : parameters are changed in a function as he had to explicitly allow it.
>
>
> 2.  You quoted the example I labelled as "(roughly) what I'd like to
>     be able to do" and ignored the one where I adopted the C#
>     approach...

I enitirely missed the second half of your original post.  Oops.



From avera at coes.org.pe  Thu Sep 18 10:52:43 2003
From: avera at coes.org.pe (Alberto Vera)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:52:43 -0500
Subject: win32comm
Message-ID: <003e01c37df4$84129b50$1603a8c0@pc22>

Hello:

Could you tell me How I can solve this problem?

Regards

    import win32com.client
ImportError: No module named win32com.clieny
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Sep  7 02:32:21 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 02:32:21 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
Message-ID: <mk6dnVAQUbZrTceiXTWJkg@comcast.com>

"rt lange" <whiteywidow at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom at 216.77.188.17...
> came across this page searching feedster.
> dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
> but the mockups look very nice.

YUCK< YUCK< YUCK.

> http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1
>
> main page mockup:
> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main.html

The old site is very readable.  Using IE6, I need a magnifying glass
to read this page.  This is done in the arrogant style of 'we know
better than you what type size you should have'.  Also known as the
'control the user experience' school.  Awful.  For me, one of the
worse pages I have ever seen.  Anti-Pythonic.

> interior page:
> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior.html

Only slightly better.  The low contrast gray-on-gray comments page is
also barely readable.  (Others reported the same.)  For my
less-than-perfect 50+ year-old eyes, it is physically the WORST
comments page I have ever seen.  It is a case study in
anti-accessibility design.  The person responsible should not touch
our site.

Terry J. Reedy



Terry J. Reedy


only slightly better.





From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Fri Sep 12 09:39:35 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:09:35 +0530
Subject: RAD with Python
In-Reply-To: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com>; from ubaidullahnubar@hotmail.com on Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 06:09:02AM -0700
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030912190935.A6787@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 06:09:02AM -0700, Ubaidullah Nubar wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> How well is Python suited for developing database based applications?

U will find python interfaces for almost all mainly used databases.
And as the nature of Python it is very easy to interact with databases
in Python.

> I am new to Python so please bear with me if some of the questions are
> too simple. I specifically have the following questions:
> 

> 
> 2. There seem to be a number of GUI frameworks available? Which one is
> good for use on Windows and Linux?

If u are new to Python and have no previous experience with C++ then
I think Tkinter is the best place to start. If you are comfortable
with C++ then u can use wxPython. (Actually there is no seperate 
documentation for wxPython, it a wrapper around the wxWindows library)

> 
> 3. Can Python apps be compiled to an exe? Can the resulting executable
> be distributed commercially?
> 

Yes, using McMillan and py2exe.

> 4. What types of applications are not suitable to be written in
> Python?
> 

System side softwares

> I have good knowledge of many languages including C++, Assembler,
> Java, etc. My preferred development tool is Clarion currently. If
> anybody with a Clarion background can share their experience with
> Python, that will be very helpful.
> 
> Appreciate your answers...
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> Ubaidullah Nubar.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Regards
Vivek Kumar




From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep 25 03:41:31 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:41:31 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <nD7cb.2405$PT3.395618@news20.bellglobal.com> <Fi9cb.1443$RW4.368@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <4bc2nv07g7hcfd9nm291n3s3aarkifu1a7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <L_wcb.2767$RW4.785@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Stephen Horne:
> I disagree with this. IMO something that modifies a value in place
> should be named using a verb (such as reverse, or sort, or update...).

You are correct.  And I can't even blame it on lack of sleep.  ;)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From gillet at scripps.edu  Mon Sep 29 18:42:34 2003
From: gillet at scripps.edu (Alexandre Gillet)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:42:34 -0700
Subject: build a static python executable on linux?
Message-ID: <blacgq$2qe$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Hi,

I am trying to build a python interpreter that is static link.
My python interpreter was build on RedHat 8.0 using gcc 2.3 and GLIBC 2.3
When running on other linux flavor that still have GLIBC 2.2, the 
interpreter won't start. (error message:  /lib/libc.so.6: version 
`GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /mgl/python/i86Linux2/bin/python2.3)

Is there a way to build a static python interpreter using gcc 2.3 that 
can run on any machine and won't need a shared library at runtime?

I want to be able to build my interpreter on my redhat machine and 
distribute my executable that can then be run on other machine without 
having to worry about the version of glibc.

Thanks for any help or idea in advances.

Alex
gillet at scripps.edu




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 13:18:01 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:18:01 +0200
Subject: file object: seek and close?
References: <mailman.1063901845.25188.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkcpdn$f1k$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:

> Does the seek method would close the file object after using a for loop?
> My program looks like this:
> 
> f = open('somefile', 'r')
> for lines in f:
>     some operations
> f.seek(0)
> 
> for lines in f:
>     other operations
> 
> Python gave me an IOErros saying that the file object is already closed.
> I am now opening the file again under another file object.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or it's a bug?

The code you posted works here (I substituted "other operations" with "print
lines"). Please reduce your actual code to the minimum that still fails and
repost together with cut and pasted traceback.

Peter



From christoph.lehmann at gmx.ch  Thu Sep  4 13:25:20 2003
From: christoph.lehmann at gmx.ch (Christoph Lehmann)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:25:20 +0200
Subject: newbie question
Message-ID: <1062696320.1182.60.camel@christophl>

hi
I need to read in a textfile, where in each line are two strings:

e.g

aa 1
bb 0
cc 1
aa 0
dd 0


how can I read in each line and put the first string into one variable,
the second into another variable

with just one string per line, I did:

f = open(myfile, 'r')
for filename in f.readlines():
    mylist.append(string.rstrip(filename))                   #remove \n
or \r\n
f.close()

many thanks
-- 
Christoph Lehmann <christoph.lehmann at gmx.ch>





From max at nospam.com  Mon Sep 29 15:21:44 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:21:44 GMT
Subject: wxImage and Group 4 Tiffs?
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0309290721.35301892@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0309290721.35301892@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cD%db.27303$lZ6.5679934@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Paradox wrote:
> I am using wxImage to display Tiffs and it works great except that it
> displays a message box for each unrecognized tag in the header. Is
> there a way to suppress these message boxes.
> 
> 
>                             Thanks Joey
this is what libtiff does by default on windows. you can recomplie wx's 
libtiff module and change the warning handler.




From petejereb at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 20 22:57:20 2003
From: petejereb at yahoo.com (Pete Jereb)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 19:57:20 -0700
Subject: How you chomp in python
References: <mailman.1064022207.30931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <681f9321.0309201857.25631b6a@posting.google.com>

"Fernando Armenta" <farmenta at pillardata.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064022207.30931.python-list at python.org>...
> How you cut off the ^M at the end of a line? rstrip is not working. 
> 
>  
> 
> string.rstrip(build number)
> 


Do you mean the newline character?  If your string variable is named
build_number, then

build_number = build_number.rstrip('/n')

works.  Sorry if this isn't what you meant.  But the format should be
the same.  If you did mean ^M then perhaps a hex or octal
representation?



From balachandra at covansys.co.in  Sat Sep  6 15:02:00 2003
From: balachandra at covansys.co.in (Balachandra)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 19:02:00 GMT
Subject: Great Book on Web Services
References: <l49iivciln0uhttc7seeb339gplev7lua8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Iaq6b.5238$lD1.132@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1558609008/india





From cnetzer at sonic.net  Tue Sep  9 16:35:37 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:35:37 -0700
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at
	runtime?
In-Reply-To: <20030909194508.GV16821@incise.org>
References: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake>
	 <20030909194508.GV16821@incise.org>
Message-ID: <1063139737.1862.5.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 12:45, Nick Welch wrote:

> > 2. How to write such code to instantiate?
> 
> class = getattr(modulename, classname)
> or
> class = globals()[classname]

"class" is a keyword, and so the above won't work, but the idea is
sound. (Just use a different identifier than 'class')

> and then:
> 
> an_instance = class()
> 
> Although this all seems really dirty to me.  Maybe there are better ways
> to do it.

The first form, using getattr, is perfectly idiomatic, and that is what
I use.

Also, regarding the earlier import question, there is the builtin
__import__ function:

help(__import__)

-- 
Chad Netzer





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 20:51:54 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:51:54 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
Message-ID: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com>

Some more looping thoughts - this time on integer for loops...

There may be some hint towards PEP284 (integer for loops) in a review
of ideas from other languages, but I'm damned if i can figure it out.
I spent some time thinking about it and couldn't find anything that
would cover the issue.

All I came up with was the recognition that some other languages have
'for' and 'foreach' loops. But Python went down the route of using
'for' for looping over lists/iterators a long time ago. Maybe a new
keyword or combination could help, such as...

  for range i in 0 <= i < 10 :

or...

  for range 0 <= i < 10 :

or dropping the PEP284 concept in favor of something C based...

  for i yield i = 0; i < 10; i += 1 :

but I don't much like any of those, to be honest.


I did come up with something, though...

I doubt the need for exclusive ranges in integer for loops. I also
doubt the need for switching between different range systems
(inclusive, exclusive, half-open). IMO there is more confusion than
anything down those routes.

Although I haven't had problems with inclusive loops (Basic, Ada) my
preference is toward half-open loops if a choice needs to be made. And
it occurs to me that Python programmers do specify integer ranges in a
half-open way on a regular basis - when doing slicing on lists and
strings.

Perhaps the 'int' and 'long' types could support a slicing to generate
a list or iterator over the range?

If so, we could write...

  for i in int[0:10] :
    ...

If the syntax creates an iterator rather than a list, it could even be
used as follows...

  for i in long[0:] :
    ...
  break if <condition> :
    ...

We could have some basic in-step looping with...

  for i, j in zip(int[0:], int[len(list)-1::-1] :
    ...
  break if i > l :
    ...

but this is probably an argument against.

What would be good, however, is that it can be useful outside of
looping for free - list comprehensions, for instance...

  [i*i for i in int[0:10]]

It would need some slight restrictions compared with normal slicing
(it needs to know the value to start at, even if not where to stop)
but what the hell. At least I'm not going to be accused of trying to
turn Python into another language - AFAIK this slice-of-a-type idea is
original. This could be my first time being accused of trying to turn
Python into a language that doesn't exist yet, of course ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Fri Sep 12 03:21:58 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:21:58 +0200
Subject: Web server with Python
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:19:50 -0700, Dave Kuhlman <dkuhlman at rexx.com>
wrote:

>
>Twisted is more than Web apps, by the way.

Does Twisted work well with Python 2.3?

-pu




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Sep  7 13:18:57 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:18:57 -0400
Subject: Question on Standard Types
References: <mailman.1062951612.13844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vlmq6piom4r2c5@news.supernews.com>

"hostmaster" <alpot at mylinuxsite.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062951612.13844.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> I'm quite new to Python and I am reading this book called 'Core Python
> Programming' by Wesley J. Chun.  I think that this is not a new book but
> I believe some of the points are still valid.
>
> There is this part in the book where it says:
>
> "In Python, standard types are not classes, so creating integers and
> strings does not involve instantiation".
>
> But later in the book, it talks about 'numeric objects' created when a
> numeric literal is assigned to a reference.
>
> So my question now is, if standard types are objects, shouldn't they
> have classes as well ? Isn't it that a class is the blueprint of an
> object? If they don't have a class to begin with, how are these objects
> created?

He's trying to make a fairly subtle point. At least, it's subtle until
you get into the nuts and bolts.

The point is that class instances are a single type, regardless of
the class. So while it's perfectly true to say what he did, it has
very little practical meaning unless you attempt to do an operation
on, say, an integer that depends on something that's unique to
an instance.

John Roth


>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Al
>





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep 15 19:20:00 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:20:00 -0400
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <bk2okk$nrhg9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <75b7596ef938ab8af18b663ddd7eaf50@news.teranews.com> <yu994qzeoqsn.fsf@tinker.research.att.com> <3F6511CD.EF0909CB@alcyone.com> <e641e476f31677c7bd0210a60faf07d0@news.teranews.com> <87smmyndi1.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <6LKcneLGNNG81PuiXTWJgA@comcast.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:87smmyndi1.fsf at pobox.com...
> def f(): return raw_input()
>
> for x in iter(f, ""):
>     print x

Nice -- I keep forgetting about iter() --  except that the wrapper
adds nothing that I can see.

>>> for l in iter(raw_input, ''): print '*', l, '*'
...
aksjf
* aksjf *
jslfkj
* jslfkj *

>>>

Terry J. Reedy






From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep 30 15:01:07 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:01:07 -0700
Subject: I, monster: nethack-like game
References: <q02eb.44767$ai7.16580@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F79D2F3.4F4FB1DD@alcyone.com>

AK wrote:

> Hi, I coded a little game in curses, loosely based on nethack but
> where
> you command the monsters against the hero (and his dog).

You might want to mention this in the rec.games.roguelike.development
newsgroup.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We grow in time to trust the future for our answers.
\__/  Ruth Benedict



From mark at hahnca.com  Wed Sep 17 11:27:43 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:27:43 -0700
Subject: wanted($):  mac and linux python gui coders for porting
References: <EHr9b.36540$n94.18214@fed1read04> <8dsfmvo15uftg7qvc0oivmsg6eeeqelvtm@4ax.com> <6ee58e07.0309170528.9c81592@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <U3%9b.39616$n94.30901@fed1read04>

>With his marketing skills

Whose skills are you reffering to?

"Lothar Scholz" <llothar at web.de> wrote in message
news:6ee58e07.0309170528.9c81592 at posting.google.com...
> Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:<8dsfmvo15uftg7qvc0oivmsg6eeeqelvtm at 4ax.com>...
>
> > The problem is that 10% of your shareware revenue stream is likely to
come
> > to approximately $1 per month.
> >
> > Further, the shareware revenue stream from your Linux port is almost
> > certainly going to be $0 per month.  Linux users do not pay for software
> > tools like this.  There's just too much outstanding stuff available for
> > free.
>
> With his marketing skills it will be $0 even for the windows version.
> And with a connection that gives me 2Kb/sec on a fast DSL line even
> the download will be 0.





From a.clarke11 at ntlworld.com  Fri Sep 12 10:52:44 2003
From: a.clarke11 at ntlworld.com (Tony Clarke)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 07:52:44 -0700
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
References: <8e6e8e5d.0309111939.4f1bf1d7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3353cd1e.0309120652.5b195944@posting.google.com>

rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens) wrote in message news:<8e6e8e5d.0309111939.4f1bf1d7 at posting.google.com>...
> As most of you know, the founder and creator of Python has stated an
> interest in bringing the joys of computer programming to a wider
> audience, and he has coined the phrase "Computer Programming for
> Everybody" to sort of sum up this concept. I fit in this category, for
> prior to about 3 yrs ago, my programming experience and knowledge was
> next-to-none. After 3 yrs of enjoying Python as a hobby in my limited
> spare time, I have created a program, which I call askMerlin, that is
> simple enough for a newbie to understand, yet interesting and
> different.
> 
> Having greatly cleaned up the original code, the basic program is now 
> a class Decision() that allows one to simply analyze any decision one
> needs to make. The other modules are subclasses of Decision() and are
> sort of ultra-mini expert systems on how to decide what to eat for
> lunch, who to vote for in an election, how to predict who will win a
> given basketball game, football game, and how to answer yes or no type
> questions. The last two modules apply the same technique but also
> utilize the internet to gather data used to analyze and make
> decisions.
> 
> I think it is a fun little program. Newbies can not only understand
> it, but can add simple modules, in any area of their expertise, by
> simply subclassing Decision(), or by simply creating an instance of
> Decision and over-riding a few key methods, or perhaps more simply by
> imitating the functional logic.
> 
> OK, that's my spiel. The program can be found at my web site at
> http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html
> 
> Ron Stephens, humbly-yet-fearlessly-treading-where-he-ought-not-ly-yours
> 
> P.S. of course I am still adding to this program, especially the
> internet-enabled part, and welcome ideas / contributions from any and
> all, especially relative newbies who need a place to start.
> 
> P.S.S. to Newbies, the best way to understand this program is just to
> run it a few times. It is a command line program, and although I have
> cleaned up the code, I also removed for the time being the
> documentation and comments, that were becoming unwieldy after three
> years of fiddling. I think the code speaks for itself, especially
> after you run it a few times and see how it works. And yes, I do
> intend to add some simple comments back into the code ;-)))
> eventually. Also, I apologize in advance for any indentation errors
> anyone has after downloading or cutting and pasting the code; just run
> the program and let the Python error messages help you sort out any
> formatting or indentation errors you may encounter.
> 
> The basic idea is to choose between a few options or alternatives, by
> basing your choice on a few good criteria, with each criteria having a
> weight, or relative-importance-factor, and then, by various means,
> determining a score for each option on each criteria. There, that's
> the documentation for now ;-)))
> 
> And lastly, yes, I do realize it isn't much to show for three years of
> part time work, but hey, I give me A's for persistence.
> 
> Ron Stephens


Excellent Ron,
As one long term newbie to another!
Worked first time, I downloaded from the page source info, perhaps that helped.
Now give us the GUI!
Tony Clarke



From member40504 at dbforums.com  Sat Sep 20 07:59:14 2003
From: member40504 at dbforums.com (nvm1980_in)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:59:14 -0400
Subject: Visual Basic Procedure Names
Message-ID: <3394230.1064059154@dbforums.com>

I am writting an error hander module which should log Calling
Subroutine/Function which caused Subroutine or raised an error. I would
aso like to store Error Source, Description and Number.

can any one help me for this.


--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Sep 15 21:54:02 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:54:02 +1000
Subject: stripping a string
In-Reply-To: <bk4ovt$hn6$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM> <mailman.1063499902.1786.python-list@python.org> <faf44c99.0309150745.6723fb66@posting.google.com> <bk4ovt$hn6$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20030916015402.GC4093@frobozz>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Tim Williams wrote:
> > 
> > I don't understand. What's wrong with
> > 
> >>>> import re
> >>>> s = 'ANL LN32'
> >>>> s=re.sub('[0-9]', '', s)
> >>>> print s
> > ANL LN
> 
> Nothing is *wrong*, but
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> s = 'AN21 LN32'

[...]

> >>> import string
> >>> print s.rstrip(string.digits)
> AN21 LN
> 
> is *different*.

In that case, you could do:

>>> import re
>>> s = 'AN21 LN32'
>>> print re.sub('[0-9]*$', '', s)
AN21 LN

> translate() gives the same result as re.sub(), but should be much faster
> (haven't timed it though).

I can never remember off the top of my head how to use maketrans or whatever
it's called so that I can use translate (it's not that it's hard, it's
simply that I can never remember it without looking it up).  Despite their
flaws, I find it easier to remember how to write regular expressions.

-Andrew.





From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 16:35:52 2003
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (Phil Schmidt)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 13:35:52 -0700
Subject: I need a little help with Tkinter Entry widget
Message-ID: <221e7b06.0309051235.2d5b4868@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to make a custom entry widget, as in the code that follows.
There are two problems I'm trying to fix:

1) I would like the widget to behave as myEntry.Escape() does now,
except that it happens on loss of focus, not when pressing Esc.

2) TABbing between multiple entry fields does undesired things with
the selection, and with cursor placement.

Can anyone offer any suggestions for how to fix this? I'm attemting to
replicate, more or less, the behavior one would get with, for example,
MS Excel, in navigating and entering data in an array of entry fields.

Also, I'd appreciate any critique of my overall technique,
particularly in how I've implemented the "undo" behavior - it works,
but doesn't seem particularly clean.

Thanks!

------------------------------------------------------

from Tkinter import *

class history:
    """this is a mixin for my custom widgets,
    providing for "infinite" undo."""
    LOG = []
    COUNT = {}
    def log(self):
        history.LOG.append((self, self.value))
        history.COUNT.setdefault(id(self), 0)
        history.COUNT[id(self)] += 1
    def undo(self):
        try:
            s, v = history.LOG.pop()
            if history.COUNT[id(s)]:
                s.value = v
                history.COUNT[id(s)] -= 1
                if not history.COUNT[id(s)]:
                    del history.COUNT[id(s)]
                s.Show()
        except IndexError:
            pass

class myEntry(Entry, history):
    """
    This works pretty well, with one exception: I would like the
    widget to behave as Escape() does now, except that it happens
    on loss of focus, not when pressing Esc.

    Also, TABbing between entry fields causes the text in the next
    widget to be selected, with the cursor at the end of the text.
    When keys are pressed, the text is appended to the selected
    text, rather than replacing the selection as would be expected.
    """
    def __init__(self, master=None, state=NORMAL, **config):
        Entry.__init__(self, master, **config)
        if master == None:
            self.pack()
        self.insert(INSERT, str(self))
        self.bind('<Return>', self.Return)
        self.bind('<Escape>', self.Escape)
        self.bind('<Key>', self.Key)
        self.bind('<Control-z>', self.ctrl_z)
        self.mode = 'display'
        if state == DISABLED:
            self.config(state=DISABLED)
    def Show(self):
        self.delete(0, END)
        self.insert(INSERT, str(self))
        self.mode = 'display'
        try:
            history.COUNT[id(self)]     # fails if no history
(changes)
            self.config(bg='pink', fg='black')
        except:
            self.config(bg='white', fg='black')
    def Key(self, event):
        try:
            x = ord(event.char)     # fails if not an ASCII key
            if event.keysym == 'Tab':
                self.Return(None)
            elif self.mode == 'display':
                self.config(bg='red', fg='white')
                self.mode = 'entry'
                E, I = self.index(END), self.index(INSERT)
                self.delete(0, END)
                self.insert(INSERT, self.STR())
                i = self.index(END)
                self.icursor(i - (E - I))
        except:
            pass
    def Return(self, event):
        if self.focus_get():
            self.Validate(self.get())
            self.Show()
    def Escape(self, event):
        self.Show()
    def ctrl_z(self, event):
        self.undo()
    def Validate(self, value):
        pass

class gui_int(myEntry):
    def __init__(self, value=0, master=None, **config):
        self.value = 0
        myEntry.__init__(self, master, **config)
    def Validate(self, value):
        try:
            v = int(value)
            if v != self.value:
                self.log()
                self.value = v
        except:
            pass
    def __str__(self):
        return 'INT: ' + str(self.value)
    def STR(self):
        return str(self.value)

x=gui_int(value=22.34, font='Courier 12', state=DISABLED, width=11,
justify=RIGHT)
y=gui_int(font='Courier 12', width=11, justify=RIGHT)
z=gui_int(value=10.99, font='Courier 12', width=11, justify=RIGHT)



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 15:29:34 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 13:29:34 -0600
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <bjfvnh$mkb$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <bjg0d3$au0$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bjg0v1$n94$2@peabody.colorado.edu>

Aahz wrote:

> In article <bjfvnh$mkb$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>,
> Fernando Perez  <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>And if you feel like people are being overly harsh, don't worry.  It's
>>usenet after all :)
> 
> Well, no, it's not Usenet, not in the sense you mean.  Someone dragged a
> discussion from a mailing list here, and I think that beating Tim up in
> public is unfair.

FWIW, I made a point of NOT beating anyone up, and tried to offer specific, IMHO
constructive comments.  

And since the starting thread of the discussion was a post by Tim himself, that
seemed a perfectly fair thing to do.  It may have been dragged here from
elsewhere, but the first 'Comments ...' post was by Tim, and he's been
responding in the discussion actively.  As long as the comments were civil
(which I actively tried to do, after seeing some of the tone of the discussion
elsewhere), I didn't see any problem there.

Cheers,

f



From jblazi at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 22 10:21:37 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:21:37 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de> <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122> <bkim08$f8i$1@news.hccnet.nl> <pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000@hotmail.com> <bkkrau$2uaqf$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <pan.2003.09.21.21.08.04.529981@cfconsulting.ca> <bkmff1$3bfa7$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.22.14.21.36.406000@hotmail.com>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:30:07 +0200, Ulrich Petri wrote:

> Yeah your right, but with your code there is no indication of a right letter
> in the wrong position.
> I guess one has to use a decorate-undecorate thing...

This is what I did in the code snippet I posted in this thread (though I
did it in a cumbersome way).

JB



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Sep 23 09:51:48 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:51:48 -0600
Subject: command line or idle?
In-Reply-To: <bkph6m$ljs$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <bkph6m$ljs$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030923075127.00a14520@66.28.54.253>

At 07:17 AM 9/23/2003, sjf wrote:

>Is it possible to distinguish if script is running on python command line
>(python.exe) or IDLE?

search archive; several threads on this recently.


Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep 30 09:49:01 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:49:01 +0200
Subject: [PMW] Rename a notebook's page - how?
Message-ID: <3f798986@news.swissonline.ch>

Hi again,

I'd like to rename a page of a notebook. Deleting the page and adding a new
one is not really an option, because the page is filled with other controls
already. So I looked into Pmw.Notebook. There are quite a few lists and
dicts which were to be changed and I wasn't successful in the first try.

However, if nobody has ever done this, I'd have to rebuild the whole page
after deleting/adding. I really hope there's an other way to go.

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER










From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Sep 11 19:33:38 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:33:38 -0700
Subject: list to string 
In-Reply-To: <Km68b.2494$YL.621@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <Km68b.2494$YL.621@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3f610652$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Graham Nicholls wrote:

> Hi.  Sorry if this is really dim, but I'm trying to do something like:
> 
> main (args):
>         fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")
> 
> and get an error that open is expecting a string not a list.
> 
> I _have_ looked at the docs online, and in the books, but to no avail, so
> thanks for looking!
> 
> Graham 

If your program was called with:

	python myprog.py one two

Then sys.argv will be the list:
	['myprog.py' 'one' 'two']
and sys.argv[1:]
	['one' 'two']

To find out about this kind of thing, instrument your program as follows:

     main (args):
         print 'main called with args = %r' % args
         fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")

This should make it obvious what is going on.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at AcmOrg




From john.abel at pa.press.net  Sat Sep 20 11:28:54 2003
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:28:54 +0100
Subject: Help Compiling 64bit Python
In-Reply-To: <m33cer37wp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1064055636.13785.python-list@python.org> <m3brtf3dhp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1064061147.27406.python-list@python.org> <m33cer37wp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F6C7236.4090404@pa.press.net>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

>John Abel <john.abel at pa.press.net> writes:
>
>  
>
>>>>c++   -o python \
>>>>               Modules/python.o \
>>>>               libpython2.3.a -lresolv -lsocket -lnsl -lrt -ldl
>>>>-lpthread   -lm
>>>>        
>>>>
>[...]
>  
>
>>I seem to be missing something really obvious here.  I've modified the
>>Makefile so it looks like this:
>>
>>CONFIG_ARGS=     'CC=gcc -mcpu=v9 -m64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE=1'
>>'LDFLAGS=-mcpu=v9 -m64'
>>
>>ran the make, and it still comes up with the same error.  I've even
>>tried running it with LDFLAGS=-64, with the same result.
>>    
>>
>
>The really obvious thing you are missing is that "c++" is used to link
>python, so setting "CC" has no effect.
>
>I really encourage you to read the Makefile.
>
>Regards,
>Martin
>  
>
Sorted.  I ended up setting the following:

export CC="gcc -mcpu=v9 -m64 -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE=1"
export LDFLAGS='-mcpu=v9 -m64'
export LDDFLAGS='-mcpu=v9 -m64 -G'

Thanks to Martin for the pointers.

Regards

John






From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Mon Sep 29 06:42:05 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:42:05 -0400
Subject: Checking for invalid keyword arguments?
In-Reply-To: <roy-B6EED5.17061128092003@reader2.panix.com>
References: <roy-B6EED5.17061128092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030929104205.GA28017@hishome.net>

On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 05:06:11PM -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
> I've got a function that takes a couple of optional keyword arguments.  
> I want to check to make sure I didn't get passed an argument I didn't 
> expect.  Right now I'm doing:
> 
>         conversion = None
>         drop = False
>         for key, value in kwArgs.items():
>             if key == 'conversion':
>                 conversion = value
>             elif key == 'drop':
>                 drop = value
>             else:
>                 raise TypeError ('Unexpected keyword argument %s' % key)
> 
> which seems kind of verbose.  Is there a neater way to do this check?

Python's built-in default argument mechanism does exactly that: 

def f(conversion=None, drop=False, ...):
   ...

I assume that you have some good reason for using kwargs instead such as 
passing a bunch of arguments together as a dict but you can unpack this 
bunch by calling another function:

def f(**kwargs):
   def f2(conversion=None, drop=False):
      ...

   return f2(**kwargs)

    Oren




From steve at ferg.org  Thu Sep 25 19:50:49 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 16:50:49 -0700
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>

I have a question that is not directly Python-related.  But I thought
I'd ask the most erudite group that I know... :-)

When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
character?

At one time, it was accepted as a truism that Windows (like MS-DOS)
was different from Unix because Windows used the backslash as the path
separator character, whereas Unix used the forward slash.

But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this
is a myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward
or the backward slash as a pathname separator.

I hypothesize that originally Windows accepted only the backslash, and
then at some time it changed to accept the forward slash as well. 
Does anyone know when that change occurred?  Was it with the
introduction of support for long filenames in NT and Win95?



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Sep 23 00:53:15 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:53:15 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <m2eky8dtny.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <eppstein-6C690F.21531522092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <m2eky8dtny.fsf at mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>,
 Paul Foley <see at below.invalid> wrote:

> > There may be some hint towards PEP284 (integer for loops) in a review
> > of ideas from other languages, but I'm damned if i can figure it out.
> > I spent some time thinking about it and couldn't find anything that
> > would cover the issue.
> 
> > All I came up with was the recognition that some other languages have
> > 'for' and 'foreach' loops. But Python went down the route of using
> > 'for' for looping over lists/iterators a long time ago. Maybe a new
> > keyword or combination could help, such as...
> 
> >   for range i in 0 <= i < 10 :

The idea behind the specific syntax of PEP284 was simply the following 
observation: one way of reading "for i in iterator" is that it loops 
over the values for which the expression "i in iterator" is true.
What types of expressions other than the "in" operator could be 
substituted in the same context and do something useful?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 10:25:11 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:25:11 GMT
Subject: using poplib to retrieve messages sent from a certain address
References: <a6fbdf56.0309211409.1cd4e88@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bDDbb.101248$hE5.3560123@news1.tin.it>

Rybread wrote:

> Real quick, I have account X and I want a python script that goes in
> and looks for emails sent from Y and then to save them.  i'm trying to
> go off the swen killer I have listed below (which i took from someone
> on this NG):

I was the "someone", and to retrieve the headers (and the first little
bit of a message) you could use 'top' method of Pop3 objects.  However,
the docs warn you:

"""
top(which, howmuch)
Retrieves the message header plus howmuch lines of the message after the
header of message number which. Result is in form (response, ['line', ...],
octets).

The POP3 TOP command this method uses, unlike the RETR command, doesn't set
the message's seen flag; unfortunately, TOP is poorly specified in the RFCs
and is frequently broken in off-brand servers. Test this method by hand
against the POP3 servers you will use before trusting it.
"""

So, you'd be using that at your own risk.  If you KNOW it works well
with your server, then, basically:

> for sms in messages[1]:
>     sid, ssize = sms.split()
>     if minsize <= int(ssize) < maxsize:

          resp, lines, octets = ps.top(sid, 1)

          if "From: foo at bar.com" in lines:

>         message = ps.retr(sid)
>         print 'retrieving and deleting msg#%s, %d bytes, %d lines' % (
>             sid, message[-1], len(message[1]))
>         logfile.write(fromtag % time.asctime())
>         for line in message[1]:
>             logfile.write(line)
>             logfile.write("\n")
>         logfile.write('\n')
>         ps.dele(sid)
> 
> ps.quit()
> 
> print 'Done at', time.asctime()
> print

or thereabouts (untested).  You'll probably want to comment-out the
call to ps.dele until you're very secure that it all works...;-).

BTW, for generic tests of POP I find Garshol's popserve.py quite
useful, see http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/python/popserve.py
.  I think that, as coded, it doesn't support the TOP command (which
you need above), but it does mention a "more full-featured descendant"
that, for all I know, might.


Alex




From domma at procoders.net  Wed Sep 17 06:06:26 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:06:26 +0200
Subject: htmllib.HTMLParser and unicode
Message-ID: <bk9bmp$2d5$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

should the HTMLParser be able to handle unicode input? I get the following
traceback:

    self.feed(self.data)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\sgmllib.py", line 94, in feed
    self.goahead(0)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\sgmllib.py", line 183, in goahead
    self.handle_entityref(name)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\sgmllib.py", line 390, in handle_entityref
    self.handle_data(table[name])
  File "C:\Python23\lib\htmllib.py", line 49, in handle_data
    self.savedata = self.savedata + data
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 0:
ordinal not in range(128)

The input is a html page from the web, encoded as utf8. I converted the
string via data.decode('utf8'). The result is passed to the feed function.

regards,
Achim





From emile at fenx.com  Sun Sep  7 18:56:39 2003
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:56:39 -0700
Subject: CSV Module questions.
References: <v03110701bb8150436f38@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <bjgivu$a7p$1@sea.gmane.org>

John D. asks:

[snip question and most of questionable example]
> someiterable = {'john d': 'john d', 'fred': 'fred'}
> # make the writer.
> writer = csv.writer(file("some.csv", "w"))
> for row in someiterable:
>     writer.writerow(row)
[snip]
> Here is what I want...
>
> "john d", "john d"
> "fred", "fred"
>
> How to I write to a file in this way?    Is is possible?
>

I expect you'll get further passing a list, as passing a dictionary also
requires setting up field names.  So instead try one of:

import csv
someiterable = [['john d', 'john d'], ['fred', 'fred']]
writer = csv.writer(file("somelist.csv", "wb"))
writer.writerows(someiterable)

#--- or ---

someiterable = [{'name': 'john d', 'addr':"123 Main"},
                {'name': 'fred',   'addr':"456 Spruce"}]
writer = csv.DictWriter(file("somedict.csv", "wb"), fieldnames =['name',
'addr'])
writer.writerows(someiterable)

HTH

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com








From ark at acm.org  Tue Sep 16 18:13:08 2003
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:13:08 GMT
Subject: scoping with lambda in loops
References: <7f9e1817.0309161338.20fbdcbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yu99vfrso00b.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>

Ian> First, I made multiple lambda functions inside a loop, each of which
Ian> depended on the current loop variable.

>>>> a = []
>>>> for index in range(5):
>>>> 	a.append(lambda: index)


Ian> Now, see if you can guess what the output was for each of the
Ian> functions in the list a:
>>>> a[0](), a[1](), a[2](), a[3](), a[4]()
Ian> I had expected it to be (0, 1, 2, 3, 4), but actually, it's:

Ian> (4, 4, 4, 4, 4)

Ian> This really surprised me.

Suppose you did it this way:

        a = []
        for index in range(5):
            def foo():
                return index
            a.append(foo)

What result would you expect now, and why?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at acm.org



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep  2 09:57:22 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:57:22 -0400
Subject: Which is the better way to parse this file?
References: <10c662fe.0309020436.559d513d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <au2dnSnl__hyPMmiU-KYgw@comcast.com>

"Roberto A. F. De Almeida" <roberto at dealmeida.net> wrote in message
news:10c662fe.0309020436.559d513d at posting.google.com...
> I'm interested in parsing a file containing this "structure":
>
> """dataset {
>    int catalog_number;
>    sequence {
>       string experimenter;
>       int32 time;
>       structure {
>          float64 latitude;
>          float64 longitude;
>       } location;
>       sequence {
>          float depth;
>          float temperature;
>       } xbt;
>    } casts;
> } data;"""

I suspect that what you actually want to do is parse structures 'like'
the above, as defined be a grammar not shown ;-)

You did not specify whether you will get such files from an
uncontrolable external source or whether you control the input format.
If the later, there is no obvious reason for separate database,
sequence, and structure productions since all three result in
dictionaries with no functional difference.

> I want to obtain a dictionary like this:
>
> >>> pprint.pprint(data)
> {'casts': {'experimenter': None,
>            'location': {'latitude': None, 'longitude': None},
>            'time': None,
>            'xbt': {'depth': None, 'temperature': None}},
>  'catalog_number': None}
> The values ('None') will be filled later.

Using None as placeholders either tosses the type information or
requires that it be recorded elsewhere.  Use the int and float type
objects instead.  Note that standard Python cannot differentiate
between float and float64.

> I tried to do the parsing
> using regular expressions, but things became too complicated.

REs are great for linear repetition but not for indefinite nesting.

> I had
> more success using SimpleParse, but I'm interested in more insights
on
> different ways of parsing this file.

I know nothing of SimpleParse (and therefore, of what would be
different).  If the grammar is as simple as I infer from the sample -- 
dataset and sequences containing sequences, structures, and types -- I
would reread about recursive-descent parsing and maybe try that.  The
type_entry function would return a (name, typeobject) pair and the
structure, sequence, and database functions a (name, dict) pair.

But as hinted above, I would think about simplifying the grammar
before worryinng about parsing.  If you only have sequences of
sequences and type entries, parsing is trivial.

Terry J. Reedy





From tcronj at ananzi.co.za  Tue Sep 30 04:36:48 2003
From: tcronj at ananzi.co.za (Tertius)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:36:48 +0200
Subject: append special chars with "\"
In-Reply-To: <DIaeb.142010$hE5.4836948@news1.tin.it>
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za> <DIaeb.142010$hE5.4836948@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3f794cfe$0$64728@hades.is.co.za>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> tertius wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there a better way to append certain chars in a string with a
>>backslash that the example below?
>>
>>chr = "#$%^&_{}"          # special chars to look out for
>>str = "123 45^ & 00 0_"   # string to convert
>>n = ""                    # init new string
>>for i in str:
>>     if i in chr:          # if special character in str
>>         n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
>>     n+=i
>>print "old:",str
>>print "new:",n
> 
> 
> If you can afford some a priori preparation, make a dictionary
> once and for all that maps each character (that isn't to be
> represented by itself) to the string that represents it.  E.g.,
> if you inevitably start with a chr string as above, you can
> make the dictionary as follows:
> 
> charmap = {}
> for c in chr: charmap[c] = c+'\\'
> 
> You can also write out the dict literal directly, and in
> any case you only need to prepare this charmap once and
> can then use it to prepare any number of translations.
> 
> Once you have this charmap, you can use its get method to
> get the translations -- and prepare a *LIST OF STRINGS* to
> be joined up at the end, that's MUCH, *MUCH* faster than
> a loop using += on a string:
> 
> pieces = [charmap.get(c,c) for c in str]
> 
> and finally:
> 
> n = ''.join(pieces)
> 
> 
> Alex
> 

*MUCH* nicer :)
Thanks!





From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Sep 29 16:04:43 2003
From: nospam at nospam.com (AK)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:04:43 GMT
Subject: append log file
References: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <vf0eb.44131$ai7.22316@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

In article <bla2rc$4b3$1 at news.uni-kl.de>, Tom wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a log file and of course I want to add the new information to the 
> end of that log file. Unfortunately I always delete the old information 
> and only append the current info.
> 
> Right now I do it like this:
> I call a module which consists of a class and a function. It actually 
> doesn't matter, but I just included it for the sake of completeness.
> The module looks like this:
> 
> class log_C:
>     def errorlog(self, filename, Data, d):
>         LogFile = file(filename, 'w')

Why not ... open(filename ... ? Then 'a' should work. (or at least works
here).

>         ErrorInfo = Data[d+1]
>         LogFile.write(ErrorInfo)
>         LogFile.close()
> 
> How can I add the new info without deleting the old info?
> I tried the modes 'a' and 'a+' but they both didn't work. Actually the 
> data was totally unreadable! It was kind of messed up. :-( I don't know why.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> Regards, Tom


> 



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep  6 14:24:31 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 18:24:31 GMT
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 07:43:06 -0000, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote:

>On 2003-08-28, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
>> As for homicide, well, you're far more likely to be either a victim or a
>> killer.  If you are armed, it is quite possible that an angry loved one
>> would have access to that gun.... and no doubt regret shooting you after
>> his/her anger cooled.  And should you be mugged on the street by a
>> stranger, your chance of walking away dead (rather than just with less
>> money), are MANY times higher if you pull a gun on your assailant.
>
>    If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
>if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?  For that matter
I am highly skeptical of this, and wonder where you got your "info." ;-)

>why is it in several other European nations (Netherlands and Switzerland
>IIRC) where there is a legal requirement for all males over a certain
>age to be armed (standing militia) that there is so little gun related
>violence?
>
>    When are people going to learn, it ain't the guns, its the education
>and attitude surrounding them.  It isn't guns that are the problem, it's
>ignorance of guns thats the problem.
Well, when someone "loses it" and ignorantly mistakes you for the devil, what
would you rather see in their hand, a cocked "45" or a banana?

If your best friend "loses it" in a spiral of despondency over a mistaken (or not) diagnosis
of some kind, what would you rather know is in the drawer of their nightstand,
a loaded "45" or a book?

You seem to be hoping that education and attitude (which you don't mention a way of
improving, enforcing, or QA-ing) will prevent all the temporary quasi-insanities that
normally reasonable humans are capable of.

(Sheesh, look at the violence-trolling in the middle east.  Not everyone is equally
capable of self-restraint, nor does culture/education/experience equally promote it.
(They seem to be having a "losing it" chain reaction meltdown over there, exacerbated
by antagonist leaders who have apparently "lost it" w.r.t. each other).)

IMO the problem should be approached in terms of risk management, and risks are not either/or.

There are risks in owning and operating cars. The risks vary according to operator and location etc.
We require licensing and insurance -- which does not control all outcomes, but does modify
probabilities of owner ship and behavior, and does mitigate some effects on surviving kin
(and financial institutions holding car loans).

There are risks in owning and operating firearms. The risks vary according to operator and location etc.
We don't require licensing and insurance -- which would not control all outcomes, but which would modify
probabilities of owner ship and behavior, and would mitigate some effects on surviving kin
(and financial institutions holding car loans etc for the deceased).

Wonder why the difference.

It says, "must wear corrective lenses" on many drivers' licenses. Should not something similar
apply to shooting within range of at least any other human (and is knowing that range less important
than knowing how far high beams carry? Why not test knowledge of both for respective licensings?)

OTOH, my grandfather was a deadeye shot, and there's a bunch of silver stuff somewhere
to prove it ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Sep 19 18:27:36 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:27:36 -0600
Subject: Python API
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.19.22.10.30.395537@cornell.edu>
References: <pan.2003.09.19.22.10.30.395537@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030919162532.03993be8@66.28.54.253>

At 04:10 PM 9/19/2003, RR wrote:

>Hello, where is nice site that would have python API documentation?
>In particular I am trying to find documentation on the function
>string.find

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-string.html

This is part of the string module. Be aware that for most string operations 
you no longer need this module; you can use the find method of a string e.g 
haystack.find('needle') (assuming haystack is a variable bound to a string.)

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 19 15:19:22 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:19:22 -0500
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570E@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570E@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <16235.22202.510046.740814@montanaro.dyndns.org>

(warning - this note contains more than you bargained for...)

    Mark> Hi Skip : Thanks for replying.  I can't find the function file
    Mark> anywhere And the error I get when I type in your statement Is
    Mark> 'str' object is not callable. Do You know where I can find info on
    Mark> the file Function ? Thanks.

"file" is the newly proclaimed replacement for "open".  If the version of
Python you're running doesn't have a file builtin, it probably won't have
universal newline support either.  Try this instead:

    f = open("somefile.txt", "rU")

and be prepared for it to barf.  If it does, you can either upgrade to
Python 2.3 or read the file in one fell swoop and split on "\r" as someone
else recommended:

    f = open("somefile.txt", "rb")
    rawdata = f.read()
    lines = rawdata.split("\r")

If you have a very old version of Python you may not even have string
methods, in which case you will have to change the last line to:

    import string
    lines = string.split(rawdata, "\r")

Note that the last line, if terminated by "\r" will leave you with an empty
string at the end:

    >>> import string
    >>> s = "123\r456\r789\r"
    >>> string.split(s, "\r")
    ['123', '456', '789', '']

You can work around that a couple different ways.  First, you can strip any
trailing "\r" characters from the file prior to splitting:

    >>> string.split(string.rstrip(s, "\r"), "\r")
    ['123', '456', '789']

That's probably not acceptable if the file ends with several blank lines.
Alternatively, you can test explicitly for an empty string at the end of the
list:

    >>> if lst[-1:] == [""]:
    ...     lst = lst[:-1]
    ... 
    >>> lst
    ['123', '456', '789']

Note also that none of these solutions works exactly like the file object's
readlines() function, since they strip the end-of-line sequence instead of
replacing it with a newline.  Here's a quickie comparison from my system
which considers the first five lines of my /etc/hosts file.  First, opening
the file in universal newline mode and using readlines:

    >>> hosts = file("/etc/hosts", "rU")
    >>> hosts.readlines()[:5]
    ['##\n', '# Host Database\n', '# \n', '# Note that this file is consulted when the system is running in single-user\n', '# mode.  At other times this information is handled by lookupd.  By default,\n']

Now, reading the whole file and splitting it:

    >>> hosts = file("/etc/hosts", "rb")
    >>> hosts.read().split("\n")[:5]
    ['##', '# Host Database', '# ', '# Note that this file is consulted when the system is running in single-user', '# mode.  At other times this information is handled by lookupd.  By default,']

If you really want to be anal and split on the "\r" characters, mapping them
to newlines, here's a little function:

    >>> import string
    >>> def readlines(f, spliton="\r"):
    ...   data = f.read()
    ...   lines = string.split(data, spliton)
    ...   for i in range(len(lines)):
    ...     lines[i] = lines[i] + "\n"
    ...   return lines
    ... 
    >>> # /User/skip/tmp/hosts is /etc/hosts with \r line endings
    >>> f = open("/Users/skip/tmp/hosts", "rb")
    >>> readlines(f)[:5]
    ['##\n', '# Host Database\n', '# \n', '# Note that this file is consulted when the system is running in single-user\n', '# mode.  At other times this information is handled by lookupd.  By default,\n']

I tried to be as conservative as possible in the constructs I used so that
you wouldn't have to tweak the readlines() function to run on older versions
of Python.  Hence the lack of string methods or list comprehensions.

Skip




From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 19:07:12 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:07:12 GMT
Subject: why pass statement?
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com> <vmeq2go7e7fq62@news.supernews.com> <A_J9b.13307$x21.750@twister.southeast.rr.com> <3377992.1063747732@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <AIM9b.14039$x21.5373@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Andrei" <see at my.signature.com> wrote in message news:3377992.1063747732 at dbforums.com...
> I find "pass" shows that something could be there, sort of "insert stuff
> here if you like/need to". A string as such doesn't have that effect.
> Obviously you could always make up some useless statement instead of
> pass, but pass just looks more elegant IMO. You probably should use it
> if you plan on showing your code to others.


I know, I do :-) It's too late to make a revolution.


> --
> Contact info (decode with rot13): cebwrpg5 at bcrenznvy.pbz
> Fcnzserr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp zrffntrf. V ernq gur yvfg, ab arrq gb PP.
>
>
> Posted via http://dbforums.com





From max at nospam.com  Fri Sep 26 16:30:35 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:30:35 GMT
Subject: py2exe
In-Reply-To: <brt7b9c7.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1064601277.12630.python-list@python.org> <brt7b9c7.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <Ll1db.17375$lZ6.4494882@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> There's a new py2exe version in the works, it is in the CVS sandbox
> subdirectory.  If you want it, I can mail you a binary for testing.
me 2, please! max at cvisiontech.com
> Thomas
once we are on the topic, has there been any movement to do a monolith 
option for py2exe (e.g. there is only one exe, no dlls necessary). this 
is somewhat useful because the exe can be freely moved around without 
worrying about the dlls.

thanks!
max




From tjland at iserv.net  Mon Sep  1 15:46:41 2003
From: tjland at iserv.net (tjland at iserv.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:46:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
Message-ID: <3285.208.224.10.29.1062445601.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>

Okay now im pretty sure this is really easy and pretty stupid but i need
to create this. To make it simple ill use another program as an example. A
guessing game that has an input field and button and an output field that
can display w/e. I know this is really easy in c++ but it needs ot be done
in python. Can anyone start me off here or give me a skeleton structure on
this is supposed to be arranged. Thanx in advance.


         When you see the net take the shot
         When you miss your shot shoot again
           When you make your shot you win!

                   Just remember
               Offense sells tickets
           But defense wins championships!




From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 03:28:49 2003
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 00:28:49 -0700
Subject: How to pass parameter to a module?
References: <Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0309182328.5c040595@posting.google.com>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174 at twister.southeast.rr.com>...
> I'd like to parametrize a module. That is, to set and pass
> some values into the module, while it is being imported.

There are many ways. 

(However, classes may fit your need better. "Passing parameters to a
module" is not a common practice, as far as I know.)

(1) Use a built-in namespace variable.

import __builtin__
__builtin__.myvar = 3
print myvar

This is a hack. I have been screamed at for mentioning it. :)

(2) Hack your favorite (non-builtin) module. The module could be any
of the standard library modules, or your own third module.

import sys
sys.myvar = 3

(3) Use environmental variables.

import os
os.environ['myvar'] = 'hello'

You get the idea. Python has three namespaces: built-in, global, and
local. Since global and local namespaces won't go over to the other
module, you need to rely on the built-in namespace, one way or
another. How you want to structure your data (by using the built-in
namespace, a module, a class, a dictionary or any other entities that
can hold a name entry), it's entirely up to you.

Hung Jung



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Sep 19 16:03:52 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:03:52 -0700
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
References: <mailman.1063995987.26144.python-list@python.org> <vmmn2u51gliad1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F6B6128.49680D2@alcyone.com>

John Roth wrote:

> A new mass mailer worm hit the net at about 9:00 PM EST last night
> (at least, that's when I started getting the spam from it.) It seems
> to be
> using a really old hole in Windows, meaning that if you've kept up to
> date
> with your patches, you should be safe from infection.

Being completely safe from infection doesn't mean that you won't get
hammered by the spam the worms generate.  All you need to be is in the
address book of someone whose machine was compromised.  (My machines
don't run Windows, so they certainly haven't bee compromised by a
Windows worm, but I'm seeing tremendous spam loads nevertheless.)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You and I / We've seen it all / Chasing our hearts' desire
\__/  The Russian and Florence, _Chess_



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 19 16:23:58 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:23:58 -0500
Subject: mutex? protecting global data/critical section
In-Reply-To: <3F6B5491.9020907@sympatico.ca>
References: <3F6B5491.9020907@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <16235.26078.764664.277055@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Brian> I am trying to protect some global data, which may, in the
    Brian> future, be accessed by threads. I'm not sure how to implement a
    Brian> locking mechanism in python.

There's generally no need to roll your own locking.  Start simple (Queue
module) and get more sophisticated (threading module's Lock, RLock,
Semaphore, Condition or Event classes).  Almost all the time, a Queue object
will do the trick:

    class resourceManager(object):
      def __init__(self):
       self.__queue = Queue.Queue()
       for i in range(100)
           self.__queue.put(None)

      def getResource(self):
       self.__queue.get()
       do my thing
       self.__queue.put(None)

In the above case, you're not actually sharing anything, just using
self.__queue to limit the number of simultaneous threads.  More likely, you
will either have a certain number of objects which are limited by the
performance of your system (say, database connections) or some piece of
global state which you need to control access to (e.g., some kind of
blackboard object).  Either one might look something like this:

    class resourceManager(object):
      def __init__(self, list_of_stuff):
       self.__queue = Queue.Queue()
       for item in list_of_stuff
           self.__queue.put(item)

      def apply(self, func):
       item = self.__queue.get()
       result = func(item)
       self.__queue.put(item)
       return result

    manager = resourceManager([blackboard])
    ...
    manager.apply(write_on_blackboard)
    

    dbmanager = resourceManager([conn1, conn2, conn3])
    ...
    dbmanager.apply(execute_sql)

Of course, you will probably want a bit more general apply() method so you
can pass other arguments to the function.

Skip




From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 22 13:29:23 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 18:29:23 +0100
Subject: urls on securing python on a shared hosting ?
References: <3f6c2f8a$0$20641$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87n0cw91fw.fsf@pobox.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> writes:

> Could someone point me to infos about securing python for use as CGI
> or mod_python for a shared hosting environnement ?
> 
> I searched google, but did not find anything specific :(
> 
> I'm not an admin myself, but I try to convince my hosting admins to
> install Python. For now, their answser is that they don't know how to
> secure this, and have not time to learn how to do it. (NB : this is a
> 'cooperative' hosting service, not a commercial one...)

I can't think of any security issues resulting from use of Python CGI
scripts that aren't also present when using any other language for
that purpose.  Perl does have taint checking, which is a useful
technique, but not really of interest from the point of view of the
*administrators* of a system.

Dunno about mod_python, though.


John



From chasm at rift.sytes.net  Sun Sep 21 11:18:54 2003
From: chasm at rift.sytes.net (Julian Tibble)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:18:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbmrgau.438.chasm@galileo.rift>

In article <S6Tab.2$eb4.0 at twister.southeast.rr.com>, M-a-S wrote:
> def factorial_iter(n):
>   s = 1
>   for i in range(2,n+1):
>     s *= i
>   return s

<snip>

> Calculations of 950!, 1000 times each (xrange(1000)) --
> 
> recursion ..... 8.01
> reduction ..... 4.20
> iteration ..... 3.79

Be even faster if you used xrange for the factorial function.
However, apparently reduce builds the list, thereby not
benefitting from the use of xrange:

recursion - 4.7
xrecursion - 0.5
reduction - 5.2
xreduction - 5.2

Can reduce be "fixed"?

Julian


(code I used:)
def recursion(n):
        s = 1
        for i in range(2, n+1):
                s *= i
        return s

def xrecursion(n):
        s = 1
        for i in xrange(2, n+1):
                s *= 1
        return s

def reduction(n):
        return reduce(long.__mul__, range(2, n+1), 1L)

def xreduction(n):
        return reduce(long.__mul__, xrange(2, n+1), 1L)


methods = [ recursion, xrecursion, reduction, xreduction]

import time

for method in methods:
        a = time.time()
        for i in xrange(1000):
                method(950)
        b = time.time()
        print "%s - %.1f" % (method.__name__, b - a)



From toby at rcsreg.com  Sun Sep 14 17:54:11 2003
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:54:11 GMT
Subject: Huh?!?!? What is it that I'm seeing here?
In-Reply-To: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>
References: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <e078dffa31019c5ea30a5829d4b6cf19@news.teranews.com>

> performing properly (albeit somewhat inefficiently, since I haven't done 
> any tweaking yet) but one particular construct has me stumped. It looks 
> like this:
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>   run(argv[1:])
> 

This is used to check whether the script file is being
run directly as a python script (as opposed to being
imported as a module).

One use of this is to put unit tests in each module filed.
Then you can just do "python module.py" to run the code
under the if statement.  When you import the module, the
test code will not be run.

Tobiah




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep  2 15:52:35 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:52:35 -0400
Subject: **kwds behavior?
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062522376.29013.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12OdnS7OZemZaMmiXTWJig@comcast.com>

"Hans Nowak" <hans at zephyrfalcon.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062522376.29013.python-list at python.org...
> Now, on to the yucky solution:
>
>  >>> def g(**kwargs):
>          for key, value in kwargs.items():
>              exec "%s = %s" % (key, repr(value))
>          # test test...

This is cute but limited.  It only works when values ==
eval(repr(value)), which is to say, numbers, strings, and,
recursively, tuples, lists, and dicts and some user-class instances.
Others will raise syntax error.

Terry J. Reedy





From llothar at web.de  Wed Sep 17 19:58:14 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 16:58:14 -0700
Subject: Simple python cgi question
References: <MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309171558.79b8748d@posting.google.com>

Stephen Boulet <stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net> wrote in message news:<MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g at speakeasy.net>...
> First of all, I'm not sure that the easiest way to do this is with 
> python ...
> 
> I'd like to set up a web page that would accept a text file, process it 
> with a local program, and then make available generated pdf and 
> postscript files for downloading.
> 
> I'd like to limit the size of the file to be uploaded.
> 
> I have apache2 already up. Is this a job for (mod_)python?
> 
> -- Stephen

File upload size restriction is a job for apache. If you try to do
this in a CGI handler its to late to protect against "Denial Of
Service" attacks.

With modpython you can check the content-length header and abort
before you process the data.



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep 20 17:30:37 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 21:30:37 GMT
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:08:40 +0200, "jblazi" <jblazi at hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>news:bkhnpn$hgc$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
>> >Do I oversee something?
>>
>> Yes, UserString. The documentation is a bit sparse, but reading the
>> module itself provides additional information. Below is a quick test
>> script.
>>
>> from UserString import MutableString
>>
>> def test():
>>     s = MutableString("helo world")
>>     print s
>>     x = 'helo'
>>     y = 'hello'
>>     i = s.find(x)
>>     s[i:i+len(x)] = y
>>     print s
>>
>> if __name__=='__main__':
>>     test()
>>
>> #output:
>> #helo world
>> #hello world
>
>Thx.
>It would be quite diffcult to explain this akward procedure to beginners.
>especially when they see that this can be done so simply in C.
>It seems that I have stumbled upon one of the few cases when Python is
>cumbersome and difficult to use.
>

For the above, what is wrong with

 >>> def test():
 ...     s = 'helo world'
 ...     print s
 ...     s = s.replace('helo','hello',1)
 ...     print s
 ...
 >>> test()
 helo world
 hello world

?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Sep 16 20:12:53 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:12:53 GMT
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com> <Xns93F621566B79BJanC@213.118.75.228> <877k4bk0i0.fsf@pobox.com> <Xns93F82A991BDF4JanC@213.118.75.228> <6ee58e07.0309160009.1b6c9057@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F916835753BJanC@213.118.75.228>

llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) schreef:

> JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> wrote in message 
news:<Xns93F82A991BDF4JanC at 213.118.75.228>...
> 
>> According to their website they use native Windows API, but when I tried 
>> some Qt-programs I've seen those subtle differences with normal Windows-
>> applications, which is very annoying at times.  When something looks 
> 
> Thats what they say: native Windows API, not native Widgets.
> 
> Maybe you should finetune your text reading precision level.

If you read both of my messages you can see that I doubted they were using 
the Windows GUI (which is part of the Windows APIs), even if I didn't say 
that explicitly (that happens at 4:11am ;)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From posman at eval.ca  Sun Sep 21 14:39:01 2003
From: posman at eval.ca (Paul Osman)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:39:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Creating a new file
In-Reply-To: <BAY9-F52AH1aXOlLv4q0002719e@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY9-F52AH1aXOlLv4q0002719e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309211437370.12086@wilde.eval.ca>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003, anthony polis wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to Python. Is it possible to create a NEW file in Python? I read the 
> tutorial on file input in the documentation but it only explains how to work 
> with existing files. Can someone point me in the right direction?
> 
> Thanks,
> Anthony
> 

Sure, just open a file in write mode, i.e.:

fp = open("output.txt", "w")
fp.write("Hello")
fp.close()

HTH,
-- 
Paul Osman
posman at eval.ca
http://perl.eval.ca

"Idealists...foolish enough to throw caution 
  to the winds...have advanced mankind and have 
  enriched the world."
         - Emma Goldman




From lefevrol at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 11:15:45 2003
From: lefevrol at yahoo.com (Olivier Lefevre)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 08:15:45 -0700
Subject: Invisible function attributes
Message-ID: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com>

Python 2.3
>>> def foo():
...     foo.a = 1
...
>>> vars(foo)
{}
>>> foo()
>>> vars(foo)
{'a': 1}
>>>

So it would appear that function attributes are not really
there until the first call to the function. If that is the
intended behaviour, it is really weird. I couldn't find any
explicit discussion of this topic in the LRM.

Thanks if anyone can shed some light on this,

-- O.L.



From marklists at mceahern.com  Thu Sep  4 09:12:06 2003
From: marklists at mceahern.com (Mark McEahern)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:12:06 -0500
Subject: Active Scripting in Python
In-Reply-To: <ba1e306f.0309032023.4038d00c@posting.google.com>
References: <ba1e306f.0309032023.4038d00c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1062681126.15727.11.camel@dev.internal>

On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 23:23, Jane Austine wrote:
> I donwloaded win32all for Python 2.3 and installed it.
> 
> I manually run pyscript.py and it returned "successfully registered"
> message.
> 
> For a simple test(on client side), I created the following html:
> 
> <script language=Python>
> alert("hello world")
> </script>
> 
> And opened it in IE6.0 on WinXP.  Unfortunately, it doesn't show
> anything.

I can't test this right now because my Windows machine at home is dead
(long story), but have you tried using:

print "hello world"

OR

document.write("hello world")

I guess my question is whether "alert" is available when you're using
language="Python".

// m





From wrbt at email.com  Tue Sep 16 15:30:15 2003
From: wrbt at email.com (Larry)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 12:30:15 -0700
Subject: xmlrpclib/timeoutsocket not happy together in 2.3
Message-ID: <2ec1bc1c.0309161130.6ada9dda@posting.google.com>

I've had a production system running for a long time that uses
xmlrpclib with timeoutsocket, and with my recent upgrade to 2.3 it's
no longer able to use xmlrpclib with the xmlrpc servers I communicate
with. I can call remote procedures still, but as soon as I import
timeoutsocket and the old socket switcharoo is done it's over.

To add to the fun I can use xmlrpc w/timeoutsocket if calling
functions at the ubiquitous betty.userland.com example, but not the
servers I've been talking to for the last two years. Example:

Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import xmlrpclib
>>> s=xmlrpclib.Server('http://myrpcserver/server')
>>> s.version()
22
>>> s.localTime()
'9/16/2003 12:16:38 PM'
>>> import timeoutsocket  
>>> s.version()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1029, in __call__
    return self.__send(self.__name, args)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1316, in __request
    verbose=self.__verbose
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1080, in request
    return self._parse_response(h.getfile(), sock)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1217, in _parse_response
    p.close()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 531, in close
    self._parser.Parse("", 1) # end of data
xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: no element found: line 1, column 0
>>> s.localTime()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1029, in __call__
    return self.__send(self.__name, args)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1316, in __request
    verbose=self.__verbose
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1080, in request
    return self._parse_response(h.getfile(), sock)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1217, in _parse_response
    p.close()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 531, in close
    self._parser.Parse("", 1) # end of data
xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: no element found: line 1, column 0
>>> s=xmlrpclib.Server('http://betty.userland.com')
>>> s.examples.getStateName(41)
'South Dakota'

Obviously the bad element here is the remote servers I communicate
with since userland works, but this just started with 2.3 and I'm
curious if anyone else has had a similar problem before I start
digging into this.

Thanks.

- Larry



From theller at python.net  Wed Sep 24 13:14:37 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:14:37 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <u172glc2.fsf@python.net>

"Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> writes:

> | ...
> | The Windows installer now ships with documentation 
> | in searchable htmlhelp format, rather than individual 
> | HTML files.
> | ...
>
> Is the htmlhelp format optional for Windows ??? 
>
> Sometimes I like to edit the individual HTML docs ....

There's a checkbox which you can uncheck to disable installing the
htmlhelp file. Then you can download the HTML archive and install it
manually.

Thomas



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 12:32:41 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:32:41 +0300
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com> <4bh3nv0esljf8pkegog0lc4lmg87siv1oc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <igh3nvoqpv2o7krhpuc12mm7h54mikm8qq@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:26:41 +0300, rumours say that Christos "TZOTZIOY"
Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> might have written:

>If only math.log(2**64)/math.log(10) worked with longs without
>converting them into floats first... :(

And after reading the FM, if only

def count_digits(x):
    return int(math.log(x, 10))

worked correctly for *all* large values, like 10**70...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From user at invalid.domain  Wed Sep 17 04:05:35 2003
From: user at invalid.domain (Invalid User)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:05:35 +0200
Subject: Datetime utility functions
In-Reply-To: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com>
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6815CF.6010106@invalid.domain>

Try 'mxDateTime' available at
 
http://www.egenix.com/files/python/eGenix-mx-Extensions.html#Download-mxBASE

It most likely has what you are looking for.

Paul Moore wrote:
> I was just writing some code which did date/time manipulations, and I
> found that the Python 2.3 datetime module does not supply a number of
> fairly basic functions. I understand the reasoning (the datetime
> module provides a set of datatypes, and doesn't attempt to get into
> the murky waters of date algorithms) but as these things can be quite
> tricky to get right, I was wondering if anyone has already implemented
> any date algorithms, or alternatively if I'd missed some easy way of
> doing what I'm after.
> 
> My specific requirements were:
> 
> 1. Get the last day of the month contatining a given date(time). I
> really was surprised to find this one missing, as it seems to me that
> the datetime module must know what the last day for each month is, so
> exposing it wouldn't have been hard.
> 
> 2. Add a number of months to a date. This is messy, as there are
> options (what is one month after 31st Jan). The trouble is that the
> calculation, while simple, is tricky to get right (month is 1-based,
> so off-by-1 errors are easy to make, and divmod isn't as useful as
> you'd first think).
> 
> Other "nice to have" functions which I didn't need for this program,
> but which I have found useful in the past, are
> 
> - Round a date(time) to a {year,month,day,quarter,week,...} Or
> truncate. Or (occasionally) chop to the next higher boundary
> (ceiling).
> - Calculate the number of {years,months,days,...} between two dates.
> (Which is more or less the equivalent of rounding a timedelta).
> 
> These latter two aren't very well defined right now, because I have no
> immediate use case.
> 
> In the absence of anything else, I'll probably write a "date
> utilities" module for myself at some point. But I'd hate to be
> reinventing the wheel.
> 
> Paul.




From jcribbs at twmi.rr.com  Fri Sep  5 20:19:12 2003
From: jcribbs at twmi.rr.com (Jamey Cribbs)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 00:19:12 GMT
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
In-Reply-To: <3F590B3F.35A7B5E6@easystreet.com>
References: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com>		<vlgs65mifq5i38@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1062788290.24102.python-list@python.org> <3F590B3F.35A7B5E6@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <4K96b.1199$sd5.298934@twister.columbus.rr.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
> Are there any downloadable pygtk2 apps that are a good demo, ie
> non-esoteric showoff apps that I can download and run under Windows
> to see how it runs on my machine?
> 
> 
> Al

If you go to http://www.netpromi.com/mojoview.html, you will see some 
screenshots from an app I wrote using PyGTK 2.  I took the screenshots 
while running it under Windows.  You can download the app and run it 
yourself by clicking on the link on the page.  I, too, have enjoyed good 
luck developing PyGTK2 apps under Windows.  It has been very stable and 
responsive for me.

Jamey Cribbs




From logiplex at qwest.net  Tue Sep  2 18:51:41 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:51:41 -0700
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
In-Reply-To: <87y8x6x2op.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
	 <yra3b.6546$Jh2.2048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
	 <23891c90.0308280317.ac68b38@posting.google.com>
	 <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <biqve2$qp0$1@panix1.panix.com>
	 <87y8x6x2op.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1062543101.28388.74.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 15:09, John J. Lee wrote:
> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> 
> > In article <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg at speakeasy.net>,
> [...]
> > OTOH, Perens is also (like me ;-) a self-described asshole.  When I saw
> > him at the Waterside Conference earlier this year, he basically claimed
> > that only assholes could make significant progress in the Open Source
> > community.
> [...]
> 
> Why?


I think it's a less eloquent version of the George Bernard Shaw quote:

"A reasonably thinking man expects to adapt to nature.  An unreasonably
thinking man expects nature to adapt to him. Thus, all progress is made
by unreasonable men."

Substitute "asshole" for "unreasonable" and the sentiment is similar.


Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From wade at lightlink.com  Tue Sep  2 21:05:30 2003
From: wade at lightlink.com (Wade Leftwich)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 18:05:30 -0700
Subject: utidylib won't import
Message-ID: <5b4785ee.0309021705.7370353@posting.google.com>

I've installed utidylib on Python 2.3, Win2K, using
uTidylib-0.1.win32.exe from http://sourceforge.net/projects/utidylib .

When I try to import tidy, I get:

"""
>>> import tidy
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\tidy.py", line 38, in ?
    from tidylib.lib import parse, parseString
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\tidylib\lib.py", line 80, in ?
    _tidy.lookupOption.restype=c.POINTER(_TidyOptionImpl)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\tidylib\lib.py", line 32, in
__getattr__
    return getattr(self.lib, name)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\ctypes\__init__.py", line 231,
in __getattr__
    func = self._CdeclFuncPtr(name, self)
AttributeError: function 'lookupOption' not found
"""

... though tidylib.lib does define lookupOption().

Any clues appreciated.

-- Wade Leftwich
Ithaca, NY



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Sep  5 14:51:03 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:51:03 -0500
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
In-Reply-To: <vlgs65mifq5i38@corp.supernews.com> (claird@lairds.com's
 message of "Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:17:25 -0000")
References: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com>
	<vlgs65mifq5i38@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m2znhjjch4.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Cameron" == Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> writes:

    Cameron> experience inclines me to the former.  I've found pyGTK
    Cameron> too immature under Win*.  The people who claim success
    Cameron> with it are, from what I can tell, those who benefit from
    Cameron> consider- able prior GTK+ work.  --

I haven't found this.  I've written two applications in pygtk2 and one
plotting library that run with no alterations on linux and win32, and
I had no prior GTK+ experience, or any GUI experience for that matter.

As for immaturity, the gimp runs under windows, and I *think* pygtk
can do just about anything gtk can do, hence it's a pretty
sophisticated toolkit under windows.  What aspects do you find
immature?

And glade-2 is a nice RAD tool that runs under linux and win32.

Here are a couple of screenshots of a pygtk app using VTK that runs on
win32 and linux

http://nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu:8080/summer/jdh/image_reader.png
http://nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu:8080/summer/jdh/loc3djr_shot3.png

John Hunter





From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  2 18:20:06 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:20:06 -0700
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
References: <mailman.1062445743.2958.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.02.03.26.13.240018@gst.com>
Message-ID: <bj34qn$etsre$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| Drop $50 at the local bookstore
| and buy a copy of Python and Tkinter Programming.
| ...

Examples from the book are available for download
and I've found reading the sources and running
and tinkering with the examples very helpful ...

http://www.manning.com/getpage.html?project=grayson&filename=Source.html

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep  8 13:19:22 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:19:22 -0400
Subject: Ternary operator
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com> <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1063023193.11506.python-list@python.org> <4qznp862.fsf@yahoo.co.uk> <vlpec6e8ul9o0e@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F5CBA1A.754BDD5C@engcorp.com>

John Roth wrote:
> 
> "Paul Moore" <pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > Maybe it's a shame that Guido's original PEP wasn't preserved
> > unaltered. What's there now doesn't capture the flavour of the
> > original.
> 
> Agreed. There may be a copy floating around in someone's archives,
> though. I'm not interested enough in assigning blame to go hunting,
> we need a way to move forward that will get to a real agreement.

http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=mailman.1044638179.4983.python-list%40python.org

Complete with links to the other 746 articles on the topic...

-Peter



From eugene_druker at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 17:28:40 2003
From: eugene_druker at yahoo.com (Eugene Druker)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 14:28:40 -0700
Subject: numarray.linear_algebra.eigenvectors bug ?
Message-ID: <37cbc1de.0309191328.1ff3e822@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
I need eigen values and vectors for symmetric matrices (like VCV). 
Solving with numarray and testing the results, I've got 
strange results - input and output matrices of some sizes are 
very different. That's an example of differencies:

Size   MaxDif(E.Val)    MaxDif(E.Vect)
   2   0                1.110223e-016
   3   1.776357e-015    2.053913e-015
  10   1.221245e-015    7.255307e-014
  11   3.552714e-015    0.8455322
  12   1.526557e-016    1.345035e-013
  13   8.881784e-016    0.7796273
  14   2.775558e-016    0.7504375
  15   2.331468e-015    2.045031e-013

This is for numarray 0.7 on W2K.
I hoped to have all the differencies below 1e-15 or so.
What's wrong ? Program text is below.

Thanks,
Eugene Druker


import numarray, numarray.linear_algebra

EigenVectors = numarray.linear_algebra.eigenvectors
Multiply = numarray.matrixmultiply
Zeros = numarray.zeros
Transpose = numarray.transpose

def makeCovMat(size):
    covmat = Zeros((size,size),'f8')
    d,t = 0.9,0.8
    for i in xrange(size):
        v = covmat[i,i] = d
        for j in xrange(i+1,size):
            v *= t
            covmat[i,j] = covmat[j,i] = v
    return covmat

print 'Size   MaxDif(E.Val)    MaxDif(E.Vect)'
for size in [2,3]+range(10,24):
    covmat = makeCovMat(size)
    eval,evec = EigenVectors(covmat)
    # Test S = V L V'
    mdiag = Zeros((size,size),'f8') # L
    for j in xrange(size):
        mdiag[j,j] = eval[j]
    testmat = Multiply(Transpose(evec),Multiply(mdiag,evec))
    ival,ivec = EigenVectors(testmat)
    print ' %3d   %-14.7g   %-14.7g' % \
          (size, (eval-ival).max(), (evec-ivec).max())



From dave at 3dex.com  Wed Sep 10 16:19:35 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:19:35 GMT
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <mailman.1063223955.7295.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rHL7b.11618$NW3.4310@news1.central.cox.net>

"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063223955.7295.python-list at python.org...
> At 01:40 PM 9/10/2003, achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
> >The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of
> >lightweight concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there
> >any similarly nice way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around
> >(perhaps in the middle of a loop) and wait until some other routine
> >(unknown to the waiting module) hurls a value in?
>
> ...
>
> Perhaps a new Python statement "suck"?

Oh come on, now, just because Java does it...





From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Sep 17 07:24:54 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 13:24:54 +0200
Subject: Test message. Please ignore
References: <e431ae34.0309120216.7ca12eb5@posting.google.com> <3F61AAA0.62F58E97@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <tyf8yonlks9.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Saqib Ali wrote:
> > 
> > Testing.
> 
> Use misc.test,

Last time I tried that, I immediately got 12 spams, half of them
claiming that they weren't spam, because I explicitly asked for them
merely by posting to misc.test.

That's really great, especially if you're just trying out your fresh
and unknown-to-spammers email account :-)

> not a regular newsgroup, for tests please.

Are you sure he wasn't posting to the mailing list ?



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 16:36:26 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:36:26 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it> <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com> <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:17:53 -0400, David Abrahams
<dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

>> Somehow I think David is mistaken here - I cannot believe that
>> dereferencing an iterator returns a different datatype depending on
>> which item it happens to point to at runtime in statically typed
>> C++,
>
>You didn't read carefully enough: I said std::pair<T,T>, not
>std::pair<T,U>.
>
>> and without that ability to dereference the iterator (1) I cannot see
>> the point of iterating through a pair, and (2) the 'iterator' would
>> not be a true iterator as C++ iterators have to comply with one of a
>> set of standard protocols (forward, bidirectional, random etc) which
>> all include subscripting.
>
>I'm pretty well familiar with those protocols - I've been working on
>the C++ standards committee since 1997 and have written several
>related proposals, c.f. http://tinyurl.com/ovpe.

OK - sorry for that.

I remain surprised that this degree of specialisation occurs, but it's
a case of live and learn I suppose.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Sun Sep  7 21:00:41 2003
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:00:41 -0400
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
In-Reply-To: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7NCdnTH349whScaiXTWJkg@giganews.com>

dan wrote:

> This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.
>  One of the big advantages of a high-level language such as Python is
> the ability to provide run-time bounds checking on array-type
> constructs.

Bounds checking means that the size is tracked for you and
an exception is thrown if you are trying to access an
element *beyond* that size. That's the natural way
of thinking about it, and not "checking wether there
is an index like this in the list".

The python way of using negative numbers in indices is
extremly handy as many have pointed out. It would be
silly to forego all that expressivness just to save an
if test in some rare cases.

 > To achieve this I will now have to subclass my objects
 > and add it myself, which seems silly and will add significant
 > overhead.

I would guess that instead of paying for this every time,
as you want to (subclassing), you could just as simply
check the index at the time when you generate it and verify
that it is correct. This way using the same list in differnt
context will not make it less efficient.

Istvan.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep  9 13:56:13 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:56:13 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org> <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <3F5E0171.B68BDE2F@engcorp.com> <_WydnXPHCO6oksOiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3F5E143D.356E8CF1@engcorp.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:36:01 -0400,
>         Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > I think that's a distinct improvement, although I'd suggest putting
> > the Documentation section (in the sidebar) _first_ rather than second
> > after the Versions section.
> 
> Really?  I envision people wanting information on a specific version first,
> only later going to the more generic items under "documentation".

I suppose it depends a lot on which group we're trying to optimize for.
I was thinking of newcomers, especially people we want to send to python.org
so they will stop asking FAQs.  The closer the intro stuff is to the top,
provided it's a small set of links, the better, in my view.

I can see the case you make as well.

Ah, now I see that you misinterpreted my first comment, which was not 
actually suggesting moving those two links to the very top, but merely 
moving the FAQ link to just under the "What is" link, where the latter
used to be.

The best discoveries are often accidents: I like what you've done.  I
say keep the "versions" section right where you've got it, with the other
two above like that.  Excellent!

> > (You mention different top navbar links but they look the same to
> > me, if you're talking about the Home/Search/Download stuff at the top.)
> 
> Oh, I'm an idiot and dropped an old version of the page on top of it.
> Updated now, at same URL as before.  The navbar changes are: 1) dropping
> SIGs and Help, 2) adding a not-yet-written "Contact us" page and a link to
> the site map.

Looks good, too.

Not that this point is necessarily worth considering, but I note that 
my brain perceived several of the vertically stacked pairs of links in
that top navbar _together_, leading to a fraction of a second of confusion.
They appeared to read "Download documentation", "Developers community",
and "Search Site map".  The old ones are even weirder when read this way:
"Search Developers" and "Download Community"! :-)  Perhaps a tiny bit of
visual cruft to separate these would be worth considering, like maybe a
bullet in front of each, or square brackets, or more vertical space.
(Yeah, I'm really picking nits with this one. :-)

-Peter



From spahievi at vega.bg  Mon Sep  1 14:40:47 2003
From: spahievi at vega.bg (Niki Spahiev)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:40:47 +0300
Subject: Object Database (ODBMS) for Python
In-Reply-To: <3f4f7af6_3@corp.newsgroups.com>
References:  <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF090708D440@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>
 <mailman.1062117540.32184.python-list@python.org> <m2isohs1p0.fsf@orbtech.com>
 <m2ekz5s17y.fsf@orbtech.com> <pan.2003.08.28.22.07.39.424278@jerf.org>
 <m2ad9trxjp.fsf@orbtech.com> <3f4f7af6_3@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <984649225.20030901214047@vega.bg>

8/29/2003, 19:11:51, Paul D. Fernhout wrote:

[...]
PDF> Well, to chime in here, in a "friendly" competition / cooperation sort 
PDF> of way, the Pointrel Data Repository System,
PDF>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pointrel/
PDF> while not quite an object database (and admittedly its case being 
PDF> easier) has a simple API in the bare minimum use case (it has more 
PDF> complex variants). Here is an example of its use (with fragments 
PDF> inspired in response to an earlier c.l.p poster's use case a few days ago):

How it compares with e4graph?

-- 
Best regards,
 Niki Spahiev





From joshway_without_spam at myway.mathworks.com  Wed Sep 17 09:43:49 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.mathworks.com (JCM)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:43:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: why pass statement?
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bk9oel$4mu$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

M-a-S <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Why is there the pass statement? I think, the expression statement would be enough:

> class C:
>     None

> while True:
>     None

Because emacs python-mode knows to dedent the next line after a pass :)



From lists at andreas-jung.com  Mon Sep  1 04:34:51 2003
From: lists at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:34:51 +0200
Subject: logging module: passing more args to the smtp handler?
Message-ID: <2147483647.1062412491@suxmac.local>

I have something like

try:
  do_something_evil()
except:
  reason = '....'
  mylogger.critical('error with', exc_info=sys.exc_info())

my logginer.ini contains:

[handler_smtp]
...
level=CRITICAL
args=('localhost', 'aj at bla.org', 'my subject')

Is there a way to pass the 'reason' var to the Logger in order
to be emitted as body of the mail?

-aj




From domma at procoders.net  Thu Sep 25 07:52:42 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:52:42 +0200
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
Message-ID: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I read a webpage via urllib2. The result of the 'read' call is of type
'str'. This string can be written to disc via
file('out.html','w').write(html). Then I write the string into a Memofield
in an Access database, using adodbapi. If I read the text back I get a
unicode string, which can not written to disc via file(...) due to encoding
problems. How do I have to decode the unicode string to get my original data
back?

regards,
Achim





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep  8 13:41:55 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 13:41:55 -0400
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
References: <mailman.1062982932.16437.python-list@python.org> <87fzj7cvbv.fsf@pobox.com> <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bjif13$ou8$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw at comcast.com>,
Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
>news:87fzj7cvbv.fsf at pobox.com...
>>
>> It seems fairly clear by now that the purpose of the mockup was to
>
>What we were directed to was *not* a mockup (model), but an image of a
>mockup.  That mislabeling was a source of misunderstanding which
>generated part of the criticism.  Please let us keep the useful
>distinction between a thing and an image of the thing.

And I'll repeat that in addition to Peter's valid point about differing
definitions of mockups, Tim was not the person who pointed "us" at it.
This has been an out-of-context review of a draft.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 23 18:04:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:04:26 -0400
Subject: string.rstrip
References: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com>
	    <m27k40se2s.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <mailman.1064353953.17403.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F70C36A.81007B7A@engcorp.com>

Matthew Wilson wrote:
> 
> What would be the best way to strip off the last "_asdf" from
> "asdf_asdf_asdf"?

s = "asdf_asdf_asdf"
without_last_asdf = s[:-len("_asdf")]

of course, that works only if you know it's there...  if not, 
prepending with a test for s.endswith("_asdf") would do the trick.

-Peter



From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 25 10:52:03 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:52:03 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
 <u172glc2.fsf@python.net> <bktgkc$5gk64$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
 <ad8tfdwv.fsf@python.net> <DdacnR-12Jpma--iU-KYvA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <smmkex9o.fsf@python.net>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>> "Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> writes:
>> >     Would it be feasible to eliminate the Python Docs
>> >     from the standard distribution and always download
>> >     separately if desired ????
>> >
>> >     This would eliminate downloading the docs twice
>> >     if the user wants the separate doc files and provide
>> >     a leaner download for non-programming Python users
>> >     that will never develop anything in Python themselves
>> >     but who want a run-time environment only ....
>
> I agree that a separate Windows run-only distribution (including .pyc
> instead of .py files) would be a good idea.

Why would you distribute .pyc instead of .py files? Most of the time
they are not even smaller, and tracebacks would be problematic.

>  But someone has to volunteer the time or money to make it happen.

If interesting ideas evolve, I might be interested.

Thomas



From cfox at cfconsulting.ca  Sun Sep 21 08:23:26 2003
From: cfox at cfconsulting.ca (Colin Fox)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:23:26 GMT
Subject: XML/XSLT with Python
References: <mailman.1064090130.16541.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.21.11.31.39.746760@cfconsulting.ca>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.21.12.23.26.227722@cfconsulting.ca>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:31:40 +0000, Colin Fox wrote:

Hmm. I think my news client buggered up the linefeeds. Let me try again:

#! /usr/bin/env python
                                                                                
import time
st = time.time()
                                                                                
import libxml2, libxslt
import cgi, os, sys
                                                                                
query = cgi.FieldStorage()
                                                                                
readtimestart = time.time()
styledoc = libxml2.parseFile("page.xsl")
style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styledoc)
doc = libxml2.parseFile(query['script'].value)
readtimeend = time.time()
                                                                                
                                                                                
start_converting = time.time()
result = style.applyStylesheet(doc, None)
done_converting = time.time()
                                                                                
html = result.serialize()
                                                                                
print "Content-type: text/html"
print
print html
                                                                                
style.freeStylesheet()
doc.freeDoc()
result.freeDoc()
                                                                                
et = time.time()
totaltime = et-st
print "<!-- Page served in %s seconds. -->" % totaltime
print "<!-- XML conversion took %s seconds. -->" %\
    (done_converting-start_converting)
print "<!-- File reading took %s seconds. -->" %\
    (readtimeend-readtimestart)
                                                                                




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Sep  2 01:45:43 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:45:43 -0600
Subject: printer friendly python tutorial
In-Reply-To: <YTb4b.235097$It4.112333@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53>
 <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030901234513.02e92120@66.28.54.253>

At 01:08 AM 8/31/2003 +0000, winston wrote:

>winston wrote:
>>does anyone know where i can find a printer friendly version of the 
>>python tutorial release 2.3?
>never mind i found it?

Where? We'd like to know too.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From ulope at gmx.de  Thu Sep 18 08:35:30 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:35:30 +0200
Subject: Help with regular expression
References: <bka1sr$kjk$1@newshost.mot.com> <bkbssb$102f$1@news.peterlink.ru>
Message-ID: <bkc8qi$1tnv$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"anton muhin" <antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:bkbssb$102f$1 at news.peterlink.ru...
> Stephen Boulet wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to write an RE to match a string that might or might not be
> > ther and everything past it up to another string that might or might not
> > be there and everything past it to a third string that might or might
> > not be there and everything past it.
> >
>
> Try non-greedy wildcards: r'((STRING1.*?)(STRING2.*?)(STRING3.*?))'
>        -           -           -
>

Since you said that each of the three strings might or not be there you
would need:

r'((STRING1.*?)?(STRING2.*?)?(STRING3.*?)?)'

Ciao Ulrich





From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Sep 12 11:41:24 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:41:24 -0700
Subject: RAD with Python
In-Reply-To: <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no>
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no>
Message-ID: <200309120841.24623.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Friday 12 September 2003 08:17 am, John wrote:
> On 12 Sep 2003 06:09:02 -0700, Ubaidullah Nubar
>
> <ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > How well is Python suited for developing database based applications?
> > I am new to Python so please bear with me if some of the questions are
> > too simple. I specifically have the following questions:
> >
> > 1. Is there an example of a simple data-entry application written in
> > Python using a GUI interface? Something like a simple address book app
> > with a listbox displaying all addresses with the ability to
> > add/modify/delete.
> >
> > 2. There seem to be a number of GUI frameworks available? Which one is
> > good for use on Windows and Linux?

I've used Tkinter for cross platform development with great success
for years, but recently I've been playing with pyGTK (and the
libraries it is built upon: GTK+, glade-2 and libglade), and
I like the results very much.  

PyGTK works on both window and Linux/Unix, Comparing the two, it seems
that PyGTK produces GUI's which look much better, and are *much* more
responsive.  And the GUI building tool, glade-2, is *very* easy and
convenient to work with.


New version have just come out in the last several days, so look for
and install the latest.

Gary Herron







From indigomoonBLINDERS at bonbon.net  Sat Sep 20 15:00:58 2003
From: indigomoonBLINDERS at bonbon.net (Indigo Moon Man)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 13:00:58 -0600
Subject: I love this language!
Message-ID: <bki8a4$20fej$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>

I'm a complete newbie to Python and have been working the tutorials for only
about 4 days (I'm doing 'How to Think Like a Computer Scientist' right now)
but I already love this language.  It's much easier for me to learn so far
than others I have tried, with the possible exception of BASIC.  Anyway,
I've picked up a lot of good hints from reading the group already and I just
wanted to thank everyone that participates here for helping out.

-- 
Remove BLINDERS to email me.
Audio Bible Online:
http://www.audio-bible.com/





From max at alcyone.com  Thu Sep 11 17:18:25 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:18:25 -0700
Subject: why is this failing?
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F60E6A1.BF2D9368@alcyone.com>

Chris Curvey wrote:

> I've looked at this so long that I must be looking right past it. 
> This
> code:
> 
> class Page:
>      ##########################################################
>      def write(self, value, row=None, col=None, len=None):
                                                  ^^^
>          print isinstance(value, str)
> 
>          # error occurs on this line
>          print len(value)

You are overriding the name len, so this is equivalent to writing

	None(value)

which is obviously an error.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God is love, but get it in writing.
\__/  Gypsy Rose Lee



From richie at entrian.com  Tue Sep  9 08:37:12 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:37:12 +0100
Subject: Ternery operator
In-Reply-To: <1063110398.3f5dc6fe94f18@mcherm.com>
References: <1063110398.3f5dc6fe94f18@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <7uhrlvoduqfcg64nvccua3ee0hklrc4lb1@4ax.com>

[Uwe]
> Normaly you should simulate "C ? T : F"
> 
> either by
>              [T,F][not C]
> 
> or
> 
>              (C and [T] or [F])[0]
> 
> in the first case T and F are evaluated allways,
> the latter solution does short circuit evaluation,
> which is according to the C/C++ semantics of the
> ternary operator.

[Michael, shouting]
> NOT TRUE!
> 
> NEITHER of your options does short-circuit evaluation.

Er:

>>> def one():
	print 1
	return 1

>>> def two():
	print 2
	return 2

>>> (True and [one()] or [two()])[0]
1
1
>>> (False and [one()] or [two()])[0]
2
2
>>> 

So it's lazy in the sense of "will not execute the branch not taken",
which is I'm sure what Uwe meant.  But it's also over-eager in the sense
of "may execute the taken branch multiple times."

[Not condoning the use of this idiom, just correcting a factual error.]

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 18:39:05 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 23:39:05 +0100
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours>
Message-ID: <87r82tpmnq.fsf@pobox.com>

Basile STARYNKEVITCH <basile-news at starynkevitch.net> writes:

> >>>>> "John" == John J Lee <jjl at pobox.com> writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
>     John> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:
> 
>     Michael>> Same argument holds for supercomputing as well. I may be
>     Michael>> wrong but I doubt that the ASCIs will ever see much
>     Michael>> Python in their production lifetime.
> 
>     John> ASICs, you mean?  Well, no, but so what?  I don't think
>     John> anybody has ever *claimed* that Python is suitable for that
>     John> kind of application.
> 
> 
> No, ASCI are big US government (DoE or DoD) supercomputers (used
> notably for nuclear weapons computations).

OK.  (actually, um, do ASICs have any code in them at all?  can't
actually remember what they are...)


> However, contrarily to Michael's belief, it won't surprise me at all
> that some big numerical computations are driven by scripting languages
> (scripts which call big number crunching primitives coded in C or C++
> or Fortran). At least in Europe, several number crunching applications
> are driven by scripts. Of course, a huge fraction of the CPU time (ie
> >= 98%) is spend in numerical routines coded in Fortran or C. Only a
> tiny fraction of the work is spent in interpreting scripts.
[...]

Indeed, IIRC David Beazley wrote SWIG for just that purpose
(controlling molecular dynamics simulations of some kind from Python).
I think there's a paper about it, probably on the SWIG site.

Plenty of other examples, of course.  Tcl is still quite popular for
this purpose, since that's what Ousterhout designed it for!  And I
know Python has been ported to various Cray machines.


John



From schwerdy at web.de  Fri Sep  5 04:41:03 2003
From: schwerdy at web.de (schwerdy)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 01:41:03 -0700
Subject: file.close() freezes my script
Message-ID: <c498bc9a.0309050041.3cc0a254@posting.google.com>

Hi Python-Fans

I'm confused! :-(

I created a script that handles SC and CSV files. To convert CSV (or
in my case: pipe ('|') seperated values) to SC, I want to hunt my CSV
lines through /usr/bin/psc. Therefore I did:

tofilter, fromfilter, error = os.popen3("psc -S -L -d '|'")
map(tofilter.write,lines)
tofilter.close()

For some CSV-files my script freezes at tofilter.close(). Removing
some lines from the "lines" sequence (that represents the CSV-file)
always helps. But imho "psc" is not the cause. Piping my CSV-file
through psc in bash always works. Isn't it crazy? I tried python2.2
and python2.3 from the debian distribution.

Anyone who has an explanation, workaround, hint or anything?

Schwerdy



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Thu Sep  4 10:14:15 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:14:15 +0200
Subject: Zope mailing lists dead ?
Message-ID: <bj7ghb$1ebf$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

I didn't receive anything from the various Zope mailing lists I should
receive.

zope at zope.org
zope-cmf at zope.org
zope-dev at zope.org

Other subscribers can confirm or have I got problems ?

Cheers

--Gilles




From etexier at pdi.com  Tue Sep 30 18:52:36 2003
From: etexier at pdi.com (Eric Texier)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:52:36 GMT
Subject: terminal character control clean up
Message-ID: <UOneb.158$1q7.33967137@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

On linux, I am parsing the output of an executable
that's returning color and font information, thing like
\x1b[1m\x1b[31m.

It's there a module that will help me clean up those control,
or do I have to do it with regular expression.
Thanks for your help




From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Wed Sep 24 18:30:36 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:30:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <kgj3nvgn6cnp9u3f66cb2vtok697lgjt89@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f721b0c-fce176ad-f4e1-4bdc-8527-cc05ef24ad42@news.szn.dk>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:

> if you are not root and you are sure that your own processes
> do not breed like rabbits, then you can be almost sure that
> os.kill(pid, 0) will throw an EPERM if your child has died.

That's too many ifs to my taste.

Your own processes needn't breed like rabbits - other's processes
can breed like rabbits, too, and if you're unlucky, your next
spawn will have the same pid as a previous process of yours.

Anyway you look at it, killing blindly is bad programming practice.


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep 29 10:48:45 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:48:45 -0400
Subject: query
References: <2003929-93022-80040@foorum.com>
Message-ID: <OSednc312rPT2-WiXTWJkw@comcast.com>

"drn" <bmproj2003 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2003929-93022-80040 at foorum.com...
>  as we are going to develop a educational s/w for children at
preprimary level

My daughter started with simple games at about age 3, so I know this
can be productive.

> we are facing some problems in deciding what platform to choose and
what s/w to
> use. so please help.
> -we have more of graphics work.
> -we have two students working simutaneously on one system.
> -we will be having 4-5 systems in total in one classroom.
>
> -----shall we go for one system as a linux sever with somewhat
higher
...
> -----shall we go for individual terminals with Linux 7.3, and with a
minimum of > around 600 MB of free space,Minimum requirement for RAM
32 MB. >Minimum requirement for Hard Disk 2.1GB,

The cheapest machines you can buy in US (about $600) have much more
than this.  With duplicate machines, any program you develop on one
will run on all.

>There will be no networking even  among machines at one location.

I think this would be a mistake.  Network cards cost US$10-20.  An
8-port hub or router < $200, I think.  When you write a program, it
will be *much* easier to install on other machine with a network.  The
same will be mostly true for files downloaded from Internet.

> -----which lanuage do you suggest - c/c++ or any browser based
software like
> php/python.

Python is not browser based.  It is a complete standalone language
just like C/C++.  It also has many free add-ons available, like
PyGame, which you might
find useful for games and other graphics work.

> please help and send your suggestions as soon as possible.
> my email id is bmproj2003 at yahoo.com

Posted and CCed

Terry J. Reedy





From shlomme at gmx.net  Mon Sep  1 09:22:46 2003
From: shlomme at gmx.net (Torsten Marek)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:22:46 +0200
Subject: ANN: libtagedit and libtagedit-python 1.0 beta 2 released
Message-ID: <bivh1b$dine9$1@ID-195815.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hello,

I am very glad to announce the release of libtagedit 1.0 beta2 and its
python bindings.
	Libtagedit is a C++ library with Python bindings using sip
(www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk) to make editing tags, information or
comments in music files easy. It has a plugin infrastructure for easy
extension and supports MP3 (ID3v2 reading/writing and ID3v1 reading),
Ogg Vorbis and (new in this release!) FLAC files.

.: Description:
	Due to the different structure and information stored in the several
music formats, this library only supports the storage of the seven
fields Title, Artist, Album, Year, Genre, Tracknumber and Comment (all
of arbitrary length in every file format). Also, length and bitrate
will be read from the file (more technical information like channels and
sample rate may be added in future 1.x releases). Editing the tags can
take place without any knowlegde of the file format on the disk, so
having complete albums consisting of different formats is not a problem
any more.
	Furthermore, using the Python bindings, file information can be easily
read out or changed in scripts or interactive sessions.
Creating, for example, m3u files becomes a cakewalk:

--== sample code ==--
import tageditor
import os

m3ufile = file("files.m3u", "w")
m3ufile.write("#EXTM3U\n")
for f in os.listdir("."):
     if os.path.splitext(f)[1] not in tageditor.tagEditorExts():
         continue
     tag = tageditor.createTagEditor(f)
     m3ufile.write(
         "#EXTINF:%i,%s - %s\n" % (tag.getLength(),
                                   tag["Artist"],
                                   tag["Title"]))
     m3ufile.write(tag.filename() + "\n")
--== end of sample code ==--


.: Changes since 1.0b1:
2003-08-31  Torsten Marek  <shlomme at gmx.net>
	* added FLAC support
	* changes/additions to the build system, now Ogg Vorbis and FLAC
	  are disabled when not detected on the system
	* released as 1.0b2
	
2003-06-01  Torsten Marek  <shlomme at gmx.net>
	* in id3Tag::getSongInfo():
	  replaced head |= tmp[0] by head |= (unsigned char)tmp[0] to avoid
	  wrong length computation

There aren't any changes in the Python bindings, they're just for
completeness.	


.: Requirements:
libtagedit:
	Ogg Vorbis libraries (optional)
	FLAC C and C++ libraries (optional)
libtagedit-python:
	Python 2.2 or 2.3 with distutils
	sip 3.8
	
.: Where to get it:
	http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/libtagedit

.: Where to send questions:
Torsten Marek <shlomme at gmx.net>




From Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr  Fri Sep 26 12:51:36 2003
From: Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:51:36 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pygantt-0.9.3
In-Reply-To: <20030926164343.GQ28349@calvin>
References: <20030926164343.GQ28349@calvin>
Message-ID: <20030926165136.GU28349@calvin>

On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 06:43:43PM +0200, Alexandre Fayolle wrote:
 
> This release fixes the way to find the PIL fonts. It also fixes a bug in
> the resource filter (many thanks to Mitry Samersoff for providing a
> patch)

My sincerest apologies to Dmitry Samersoff for misspelling his name. 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Sep 11 21:19:24 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:19:24 -0500
Subject: getting ttf font/family name; fontTools?
In-Reply-To: <3F60F508.8030300@rogers.com> ("Mike C. Fletcher"'s message of
 "Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:19:52 -0400")
References: <m2ad9bcbhy.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<3F60F508.8030300@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <m2pti6yfab.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike C Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:

    Mike> TTFQuery does all this stuff (using fontTools).
    Mike> Particularly the "describe" module in the package does the
    Mike> work of pulling apart the tables to get something useful:

This looks useful -- thanks.  There apparently is an error in
family_query.py

video:~/python/src/TTFQuery-0.2.4> python2.2 family_query.py 
Scanning for system fonts...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "family_query.py", line 11, in ?
    from ttfquery._scriptregistry import registry
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/ttfquery/_scriptregistry.py", line 15, in ?
    registry = _getRegistry()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/ttfquery/_scriptregistry.py", line 11, in _getRegistry
    new,failed = registry.scan( directories, printErrors = 1, force = 0)
NameError: global name 'directories' is not defined

John Hunter




From M.Boeren at guidance.nl  Thu Sep 18 09:27:50 2003
From: M.Boeren at guidance.nl (Marc Boeren)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:27:50 +0200
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
Message-ID: <7BE0F4A5D7AED2119B7500A0C94C58AC3D6D66@DELLSERVER>

> outputFile = file('ips.txt', 'w')
> r = range(256)
> for r in range(256):
>     f = '192.168.1.%s\n' % r #Change this line to macth your network.
>     outputFile.write(f)
> outputFile.close()

I came up with this:

>>> f = ['192.168.1.%d' % r for r in range(256)]
>>> outputFile = file('ips.txt', 'w')
>>> outputFile.write("\n".join(f))
>>> outputFile.close()

Any comments on which is more pythonic?

Cheerio, Marc.




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep  9 07:27:16 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:27:16 +0200
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
In-Reply-To: <bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F5DB914.1030507@ghaering.de>

Martin Schneider wrote:
> One step ahead: My test program sorted a two-dimensional array containing
> pairs of a string and a long integer, and the strcpy routine seems pretty
> slow.
> 
> After reducing the problem to numerical sort only, I could improve the
> relation to 1:50.
> 
> Is this a normal ratio?

Not for optimized C. But your algorithm is very naive I must say. If I 
were to implement such an algorithm in C, I'd avoid copying as much as 
possible. It's best to have an array of pointers to structs. Then in 
your bubble-sort algorithm, only exchange the pointers, don't copy the 
structs themselves.

FWIW your Python code most likely doesn't copy either, it only moves 
references around, which is quite fast. So if you make your C code as 
smart as Python automatically is <wink>, your C code should be a hell of 
a lot faster than your Python code :-)

HTH,

-- Gerhard




From messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 24 09:40:18 2003
From: messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com (ataraxia2500)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:40:18 +0200
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com>
Message-ID: <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>

ok thanx I'm on linux, what I want  basically is the script to launch xyz
and then check if it's running using os.system('xyz'), and if it's not
running I want the script to relaunch xyz. So could u tell me please also
how to launch or relaunch a programme please :) 
> 
> If you're UNIX based:
> 
> os.system('xyz') will return the exit status of your program xyz.
> More importantly for you, it will return!
> 
> So try an (ugly) loop like:
> 
> import os
> while 1:
>         os.system('xyz')
> 
> 
> -Ed
> 
> ataraxia2500 wrote:
> 
>> I wanna do a script that launch a programm xyz and relaunch xyz if it
>> crashes. what kind of module do I need for such a task?
> 




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 15:24:52 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:24:52 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <m2eky8dtny.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <GhQbb.196$eB.92@twister.southeast.rr.com> <hTZbb.2427$gi2.1120@fed1read01> <mgs0nvko9fm2e9kcml3bv26h7q78gv5ks8@4ax.com> <pS0cb.2675$gi2.767@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <ve71nv8cqp5qq4p0gvieo9sumobhdkcaoo@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:08:04 -0700, Tim Hochberg
<tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:44:13 -0700, Tim Hochberg
>> <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>FWIW, Psyco recognizes this structure and removes the overhead 
>>>associated with it.
>> 
>> 
>> I went looking for Psyco yesterday, and all I could find was broken
>> links. Was sourceforge just having bad day, or is there a new site
>> that hasn't made it into Google yet?
>
>
>Probably the former. I just checked at http://psyco.sourceforge.net/ and 
>everything seemed to be working.

You're right - I can see it now. Thanks.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From syver at inout.no  Thu Sep  4 04:14:00 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 10:14:00 +0200
Subject: Active Scripting in Python
References: <ba1e306f.0309032023.4038d00c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uznhl0y47.fsf@inout.no>

janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine) writes:

> I donwloaded win32all for Python 2.3 and installed it.
> 
> I manually run pyscript.py and it returned "successfully registered"
> message.
> 
> For a simple test(on client side), I created the following html:
> 
> <script language=Python>
> alert("hello world")
> </script>
> 
> And opened it in IE6.0 on WinXP.  Unfortunately, it doesn't show
> anything.
> 
> After googling, I tried "pyscript.py --debug" and the trace collector
> shows:
> 
> Object with win32trace dispatcher created (object=None)
>  in _InvokeEx_ with GetInterfaceSafetyOptions 0 1
> (IID('{BB1A2AE2-A4F9-11CF-8F20-00805F2CD064}'),) None None
> in _InvokeEx_ with GetInterfaceSafetyOptions 0 1
> (IID('{BB1A2AE1-A4F9-11CF-8F20-00805F2CD064}'),) None None
> 
> Am I doing something stupid?

I think Mark Hammond has disabled the scripting extensions by default,
go to Mark Hammonds site, there should be an explanation on how to
enable it there...




From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 15 13:04:56 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 18:04:56 +0100
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com> <87znh89ufv.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnbm8l54.o3i.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <878yoqoudj.fsf@pobox.com>

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:

> On 2003-09-13, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> > I've never seen anybody give a convincing reason why GTk is a good
> >  choice for *anything* except writing GNOME apps.
> 
>     I run several GTK apps that don't touch Gnome:
> Sylpheed-Claws
> Pan
> XChat
> 
>     GTK != GNOME.  
[...]

Yep: that's exactly what I don't understand!  *Why* did you do that?


John



From gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net  Wed Sep  3 10:46:41 2003
From: gerhard.haering at opus-gmbh.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:46:41 +0200
Subject: Anybody else having problem *sending* mail to this list?
Message-ID: <3F55FED1.7020406@opus-gmbh.net>

On my mailserver (running a recent Postfix snapshot) I get this since a 
few hours:

mylene:/var# mailq
-Queue ID- --Size-- ----Arrival Time---- -Sender/Recipient-------
DA10713E37     1617 Wed Sep  3 11:32:46  gh at ghaering.de
(lost connection with mail.python.org[12.155.117.29] while sending end 
of data -- message may be sent more than once)
                                          python-list at python.org

However, using telnet to send mail to python-list on mail.python.org 
from the same host seems to work fine.

Is there something strange going on?

-- Gerhard





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Sep 19 11:48:10 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:48:10 +0100
Subject: pop3 email header classifier?
Message-ID: <GmZAOKA6Uya$Ew2E@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi, I'm getting vast numbers of fake upgrade emails containing some kind
of virus. My rather old client can be made to reject these based on some
patterns in the subject line. They're nearly all based on the word
'New', 'Latest', 'Microsoft', 'Patch', 'Pack', ... etc etc.

Is there a python tool that can be made to delete these from my POP3
mail box rather than let my client reject? Quite a few seem to have
semi-valid return addresses so I get postmaster rejects from
xxx at microsoft.com etc.

I know about spam-bayes etc, but these things are over 120k each and it
seems pretty pointless to download them (as well as taking about an
hour).
-- 
Robin Becker



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 23 13:24:36 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:24:36 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkpvml$m67$06$1@news.t-online.com>

jallan wrote:

> I don't see any particular reason why Python "cannot handle case
> mappings that increase string lengths".

Now that's a long post. I think it essentially boils down to the above
statement.

Looking into stringobject.c (judging from a first impression,
unicodeobject.c has essentially the same algorithm, but with a few
indirections):

static PyObject *
string_upper(PyStringObject *self)
{
        char *s = PyString_AS_STRING(self), *s_new;
        int i, n = PyString_GET_SIZE(self);
        PyObject *new;

        new = PyString_FromStringAndSize(NULL, n);
        if (new == NULL)
                return NULL;
        s_new = PyString_AsString(new);
        for (i = 0; i < n; i++) {
                int c = Py_CHARMASK(*s++);
                if (islower(c)) {
                        *s_new = toupper(c);
                } else
                        *s_new = c;
                s_new++;
        }
        return new;
}

The whole routine builds on the assumption that len(s) == len(s.upper()) and
nothing short of a complete rewrite will fix that. But if you volunteer...

Personally, I think it's a long way to go for a little s, sharp as it may be
:-)

Peter




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Sep 19 12:10:40 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:10:40 -0400
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
In-Reply-To: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEAIGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Peter Abel]
> I'm working under W2k with
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
>
> I have a file *test_data.txt* with the following content:
> 0123456789
> 0123456789
> abcdefghi
> ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ
>
> and I work on it with the following python script:
>
> # Open NOT in binary mode
> fp=file('test_data.txt','r')
> a='xx'
> while a:
>   print 'Filepointer: %3d' %  fp.tell()
>   a=fp.readline()
> fp.close()
>
> print
>
> # Open IN binary mode
> fp=file('test_data.txt','r+b')
> a='xx'
> while a:
>   print 'Filepointer: %3d' %  fp.tell()
>   a=fp.readline()
> fp.close()
>
> Now, when test_data.txt is saved in PC-mode with 0xC, 0xA as newline
>it works correct.

What does "correct" mean?  Or what does incorrect mean?


> But when I save the file in UNIX-Mode with 0xA as newline,
> my script gives me the following output, where that one with
> the file not opened in binary mode is wrong:
> Filepointer:   0
> Filepointer:   7
> Filepointer:  19
> Filepointer:  30
> Filepointer:  49
> Filepointer:  51
>
> Filepointer:   0
> Filepointer:  11
> Filepointer:  22
> Filepointer:  32
> Filepointer:  50
> Filepointer:  51

What exactly about that do you think is wrong?  For example, tell() results
for files opened in text mode have no portably defined relationship to byte
offsets from the beginning of file, so it's not wrong simply that the
numbers displayed differ between the two blocks of output.  Here from the C
standard:

    The ftell function obtains the current value of the file position
    indicator for the stream pointed to by stream.  For a binary stream,
    the value is the number of characters from the beginning of the file.
    For a text stream, its file position indicator contains
    unspecified information, usable by the fseek function for returning
    the file position indicator for the stream to its position at the
    time of the ftell call; the difference between two such return
    values is not necessarily a meaningful measure of the number of
    characters written or read.

When f is opened in text mode, about the only thing you can do with an
f.tell() result portably is to use it as-is (without doing arithmetic on it
first) as an argument to a later f.seek().  When the standard says it's
unspecified beyond that, it means it.

> When I try this under HP-UX it works fine in both cases.

Unixish systems make no distinction between text mode and binary mode, but
Windows does.  That's why the results differ.

> So I wonder if the function *tell()* is not correctly implemented
> under win32.

Python's file.tell() on Windows just calls a Microsoft C function.  AFAIK,
Microsoft's implementation conforms to the C standard, but the C standard
doesn't promise as much as you appear to believe it does/should.





From roy at panix.com  Mon Sep 22 21:08:01 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:08:01 -0400
Subject: What is a "method-wrapper" object?
Message-ID: <roy-01F8C5.21080122092003@reader2.panix.com>

I had a class called rule and a subclass of rule, called bgpRule, in a 
file called bgp.py.

I decided to move the rule class to its own file, called rule.py.  The 
original file did "import rule".  I forgot to change bgpRule's 
__init__() method from calling rule.__init__() to call 
rule.rule.__init__().

Amazingly, this caused no immediate error, but rule.__init__() never got 
called.  When I found the problem, I was puzzled as to why I didn't just 
get AttributeError when I called rule.__init__().  A little 
investigation led to this:

[rsmith at qwerky agent]$ py
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Apr  5 2003, 13:59:12) 
[GCC 3.2.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import rule
>>> dir (rule)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'rule', 'target', 
'time']
>>> print rule.__init__  
<method-wrapper object at 0x816c27c>
>>> print rule.__init__()
None
>>> 

So, what is this "method-wrapper" thingie that doesn't show up in the 
module's dir()?  I don't see any mention of it in the on-line 
documentation.  Have I stumbled upon one of those deep dark Python 
secrets that mere mortals aren't supposed to know about?



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Sep 19 12:48:51 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (Holger Krekel)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:48:51 +0200
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
In-Reply-To: <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 12:11:29PM -0400
References: <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com> <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030919184851.D31102@prim.han.de>

Hello Peter,

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > Of course, there's a sense in which Common Lisp just doesn't have much
> > syntax, but Python's hardly overloaded with it, either.  *The objects*
> > or to be more precise the *types* of objects themselves are what
> > determine really happens, and that's precisely the sort of thing
> > metaclasses let you play with.
> 
> I guess this might get down to the question of whether Python is more about
> the syntax, grammar, keywords, and such, of the language or more about the 
> standard types of objects which are provided with it.  In my mind, it's 
> very much the former and very little the latter, but maybe that's just me.
> Dicts and lists and integers are interesting and all, but I'm not sure 
> it's their behaviour which makes Python Python.

Although probably 2/3 of the implementation of Python deal with the type/object
implementations, from a using-the-language point of view the syntax probably
contributes more obviously to the observed "simplicity" of Python.   

But the term "meta object protocol" seems to point much more into
the direction of types/objects as Michael suggests and here Python
has a lot to offer. Is there some free material on MOP somewhere? 

FWIW, in the next pypy-sprint we'll probably try to deconstruct the python-syntax
and its resulting compilation and execution into several aspects.  Maybe
we should term this effort meta language protocol :-)

cheers,

    holger




From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Sep  4 06:01:09 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:01:09 GMT
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
References: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com> <87bru1fny7.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <F3E5b.82372$bo1.18438@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

John J. Lee:

> How about something like Scintilla?

   The original poster had tried PyCrust which uses the wxWindows port of
Scintilla wxStyledTextCtrl. The design centre for Scintilla is editing
source code files and its assumptions are incorrect for very large documents
or very wide documents. The performance of Scintilla is dependent on how it
is used as much as its design and it can be sped up greatly by turning off
styling and word wrap.

   Neil





From daniel.a.joyce at worldnet.att.net  Thu Sep 11 14:20:27 2003
From: daniel.a.joyce at worldnet.att.net (Daniel Joyce)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:20:27 GMT
Subject: Problems with Python/Pycrust on SUSE 8.2
Message-ID: <L138b.134986$0v4.9878519@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

When I try and run pycrust, I get...

'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/pycrust", line 4, in ?
    from wxPython.lib.PyCrust.PyCrustApp import main
  File
"/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/wxPython/lib/PyCrust/PyCrustApp.py", line
8, in ?
    from crust import CrustFrame
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/wxPython/lib/PyCrust/crust.py",
line 8, in ?
    from filling import Filling
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/wxPython/lib/PyCrust/filling.py",
line 9, in ?
    from wxPython import stc
ImportError: cannot import name stc
Segmentation fault

idle gives:
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback

But continues to run, though I don't know if any features are broke.

WX is installed, there is a stc.h
Is there a recompilation step I can do?
DO I need the new WXPython release?
I checked YAST2 for update patches, but SUSE has no published fix.

-Daniel Joyce

----
The Meek shall inherit the Earth,
for the Brave are among the Stars!



From ryan10975073 at netscape.net  Tue Sep  9 22:51:35 2003
From: ryan10975073 at netscape.net (ryan10975073 at netscape.net)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:51:35 -0400
Subject: Internal states..
Message-ID: <124EEBE3.600A3EC8.A05AB946@netscape.net>

Chad Netzer <cnetzer at sonic.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 19:05, ryan10975073 at netscape.net wrote:
>> Chad Netzer <cnetzer at sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> ? Thank you. Sounds interesting. :~) well do you know any resource or something i can dwell into
>> ?for "Mersenne Twister (part of Python2.3),and "cryptographic random number generation" ??
>
>For Mersenne Twister, just search on Google. ?Same for cryptographic
>random number generator (or cryptographic hash). ?Mind you, the latter
>are HEFTY subjects, with lots of math. ?The crypto RNG topics require a
>lot of knowledge about cryptography in general, to understand fully.
>
>> ?And what u are saying is that everytime the seed([x]) where x = long int, it would return the same value??
>
>Yes.
>
>$ python2.3
>Python 2.3 (#1, Aug 12 2003, 13:06:21)
>>>> import random
>>>> help(random)
> 
>>>> random.seed(0)
>>>> random.random()
>0.84442185152504812
>>>> random.random()
>0.75795440294030247
>>>> random.random()
>0.420571580830845
>
>>>> random.seed(0)
>>>> random.random()
>0.84442185152504812
>>>> random.random()
>0.75795440294030247
>>>> random.random()
>0.420571580830845
>
>
>> ?if it does thats then whats the point ??
>
>Setting the seed has several uses. ?You can store its value to repeat
>sequences of events (sometime used in simulations). ?You can create
>truely random seed values somehow, then use them to set the seed (the
>system time values are typically a small subset of all possible seeds,
>and similar starting seeds can produce simlar values on poorly made
>RNGs)
>
>> ?Its better to use seed() which is based on the system's time then..
>
>If you don't care about the specific seed, yes, just let the system make
>one for you. ?For cryptographic applications (which the RNGs we are
>talking about are NOT suited for, generally), it is very bad advice to
>use the system time, alone, as a seed.
>
>> And i think we can't use Mersenne Twister RNG in Python if i am not wrong.
>
>Python2.3 comes with it. ?It is just an implementation detail (but it is
>generally considered a better, faster RNG than the previous
>implementation). ?It is what I used above.
>
>Is there any reason you didn't send your reply to the Python mailing
>list? ?I'm CC'ing the list, since there is nothing personal in this
>email, and it started on the list.
>
>
>-- 
>Chad Netzer
>
>

Yup!sorry. it was a mistake.. :~(.. Thank you anyway. I got your message clean & cut.
Cheers,
Ryan  

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From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 11:43:11 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:43:11 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com> <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:10:42 GMT, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>First of all, if you insist on using an invalid address, might I suggest
>that "x at y.invalid" would be less visually annoying, with the additional
>merit of actually meaning something.

I used to have something like that, only my newreader won't allow a
completely invalid addresss (it insists on seeing '.co.uk' and some
other formatting stuff). It turned out that my obviously invalid
domain was actually valid and owned by someone else. Actually, it was
pointed out to me by someone who disagreed with a point I was making.

Basically, even if a spamtrap domain is actually a real domain by pure
fluke, it will still recieve my spam - as said the lecture.

If dollar signs are valid in a domain name (which I assume they are as
my newsreader allows them) then I can imagine a valid domain
consisting of one, two, three or whatever of them - but not a huge run
of them. That is the reason for my choice. By preference I would miss
that line out of the header completely, but it's not an option.

This first comment of yours raises the suspicion that, in disagreeing
with my idea, you feel you have to attack everything you can about me
and about the idea. Let's see how that suspicion pans out...

>So, if I can summarise. You see a feature in C# that represents perhaps one
>of the less-well-thought-out aspects of the language. You then ask how to
>graft it into Python because "Python should be more like C#"?

Oh dear.

In C#, 'ref' parameters are not IMO a "less-well-thought-out" aspect
of the language. They are, IMO, a very well thought out feature in the
context of that language. Making the 'ref' explicit in the call is
also a novel approach which I don't think I've seen in any other
language, which is why I decided to raise the subject.

On thinking it through, it simply isn't necessary in Python - but that
doesn't mean you have to make it out to be a universally bad idea or
go through the old 'stop trying to turn Python into X' garbage.

Actually I'm sick to death of the old 'your just trying to turn Python
into X' argument whenever I suggest that *maybe* Python might learn a
trick from another language. I have been accused of trying to turn
Python into C, C++, Java, Pascal, Ada and several others in the past.
None of these accusations is true. They are tired and pathetic. They
say more about the accuser than the accused.

Believe it or not, languages other than Python have good features.
Believe it or not, Python has become a better language by adopting
features from other languages AS WELL AS by adopting ideas of its own.

Sometimes a feature that works well in one language can work well in
another.

Python does not need a 'not invented here' mentality.

>> : The rationale for this in C#, I assume, is mostly about clarity and
>> : maintainability - the caller can't be surprised when value type
>> : parameters are changed in a function as he had to explicitly allow it.
>>
>I agree the requirement for the "ref" keyword in the call lends some
>clarity. Not sure I'd agree about maintainability, though.

Maintainability is mostly helped by explicitness. The maintainer can
see that the parameter might be rebound simply by looking at the call.
I can't imagine any scenario where improved clarity doesn't lead to
improved maintainability.

> And it can only
>be a matter of time before people start suggesting that the ref mechanism be
>used because there's a two-hundred nanosecond time saving ...

Garbage. Neither Python nor C# are meant to be execution speed record
holders. I did address a performance issue, but only because (1) that
performance issue was raised by the 'against' side in a previous
discussion of pass-by-reference parameters and (2) there is already
some sensitivity to the idea of Python becoming slower than it already
is (IIRC some people still use Python 1.5 in part because it is a
little faster than Python 2.x).

It would be hard to predict the relative speeds of a this idea against
the tuple-returning method. Each has its own overheads - in one case
creating and unpacking the tuple, in the other case checking that the
right parameters are marked as 'ref' or not. All I can say for sure is
that the performance of conventional function calls would not change.

But then my argument was never about performance. It appears to me
that you invented that issue purely so you could counter it - but
countering an argument that the other side never made is a very weak
victory.

>But given Python's ability to have a function return a tuple to an unpacking
>assignment (which has the real advantage that the intention to modify the
>value of the left-hand tuple elements is explicit) I really can't see why
>you want to complicate things further.

It is possible for a person to propose an idea for discussion without
having though it through fully - that may even be the point of
proposing it for discussion. If discussion could never lead to new
ideas and changed opinions there'd really be no point.

In the context of Python the idea turns out to serve no compelling
purpose. I already admitted that in message ID
cg5vlvgorsi88elsn9ur5ueavpg27d7ui3 at 4ax.com. I was even showing signs
of heading that way when I said...

: C# 'needs' ref parameters because it has no convenient way to return
: multiple values from a function. Python does not. The question is
: really whether this argument about expressing intentions and evading
: errors is compelling or not.

all the way back in message ID
jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2 at 4ax.com

You don't have to claim that the feature is "one of the
less-well-thought-out aspects of" C# to do that - C# is not Python.
You also don't need to accuse me of trying to "graft it into Python
because "Python should be more like C#"".

Basically, you don't have to turn this into a crusade just because I
thought an idea from another language might be worth some thought and
discussion. Python is not the one true faith - it is a programming
language. Like all good programming languages it has sometimes adopted
good ideas from other programming languages. This idea is not destined
to be one of them, and that's fine - it was a bad idea, but that
doesn't make it a heresy. Discovering whether an idea is bad is one of
the advantages of discussion.


>"Explicit is better than implicit".

This has nothing to do with it - the 'ref' notation *is* explicit.


>> >  Currently, if you see a call to f(x) you know
>> >that x cannot be rebound.
>>
>> And if in some future version of Python the suggestion I made was
>> implemented, when you see f(x) you will still know that x cannot be
>> rebound - but when you see f(ref x) you will know that x may well be
>> rebound.
>>
>OK, remind me why this is better than
>
>x = Inc(x)
>
>or
>
>x, y = DoubleInc(x, y)

The idea I had in mind is that sometimes it is a good thing to
restrict what the caller can do in order to prevent errors. The
return-value method may hypothetically, in some cases, allow excessive
flexibility. If the intention of the function is to replace a value
then literally doing that in the function itself - rather than leaving
it the the caller to decide whether to replace it or whether to keep
both - may be a good idea.

At present Python allows this if the value is a component of a mutable
object passed in as a paramater, but not if the value was passed in
directly as the parameter itself.

As it turns out, I can't think of a compelling example where this idea
would be beneficial and that logic above almost certainly doesn't
connect to the practicalities of real world programming - I've already
said that - but it wasn't immediately obvious that it would work out
like that when I started the thread.

>> I wouldn't want this. To implement it, either a single compiled
>> version of a function would need to figure out at run time whether the
>> parameters where by reference or not, or several versions of each
>> function would have to be compiled into the .pyc file.
>>
>> Also, I don't really see the benefit. If a function has by-reference
>> parameters then rebinding those parameters is likely a big part of the
>> purpose of the function. Supplying a parameter which cannot be rebound
>> is likely an error caused by someone forgetting to type the 'ref', in
>> which case they'd equally likely appreciate an error message as
>> opposed to wierd, hard-to-trace logic errors.
>>
>So you introduce a "ref" keyword so that a dangerous and unneccessary
>mechanism can be "safely" introduced?

Not at all.

The dangerous thing in JCMs example is the overloading, not the
call-by-reference.

Pass-by-reference parameters are not dangerous. Making the
pass-by-reference explicit in the call is also not dangerous.

I am a little suspicious of the C# system of using 'ref' and 'out' to
resolve overloading, but Python doesn't do overloading at all. That
doesn't mean overloading has to be a bad idea and neither does it mean
that Python is a bad language. Like any language feature overloading
has a good and a bad side to it, and like any good language Pythons
features are selected to work well in the context of the language as a
whole. Different languages simply have different strengths and
weaknesses.

But overloading is a separate issue to pass-by-reference - take a look
at standard Pascal for instance, which has pass-by-reference but no
overloading.

Pass-by-reference is unnecessary in Python, yes. The theoretical
argument does not connect to practical reality. But as I already said,
it was not immediately obvious that it would work out that way.




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep  8 07:28:49 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:28:49 GMT
Subject: basic rules of design (was Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <p3idnVDIPrJm5caiU-KYgg@comcast.com> <bjg076$ajd$1@panix3.panix.com> <bjg0lm$n94$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <RJZ6b.43418$R32.1381022@news2.tin.it>

Fernando Perez wrote:
   ...
> A basic rule of design should always be:  a default (www.python.org) value
> should satisfy the _majority_ of usage cases (not those with the most
> money/corporate power/whatever).  Since the majority of visitors to the
> site can arguably be thought to be developers, _that_ is the audience the

As a general principle of design, this is wrong, because it does not
take into account the _COST_ of occurrences of "not satisfying".

Consider dictionary addressing: what DOES one want to occur when the
key is not in the dict in an operation such as thedict[thekey]?  It is
arguable that in a majority of cases one wants to use a default value
while the need to get an error is somewhat rarer.  HOWEVER, this does
not mean Python's design is wrong, because this simple count regarding
"majority of use cases" is not considering the *COSTS*.  If absent keys
implicitly supplied a default value, then using the default when an
error should be instead raised for key absence would produce weird and
hard-to-debug error situations down the line; as is, using the default
when in fact one wants to supply a default value immediately produces
an exception that shows one must use .get (or whatever) instead.  So,
the current design may well be optimal even though it might appear to
conflict with the "basic rule of design" as Fernando mistakenly states it.

Of course, if one DOES consider costs appropriately, then the thesis that
Fernando wants to promote doesn't necessarily follow any more.  It may
well be argued that developers are more web-savvy than managers and other
corporate decision-makers, easily able to follow a link and/or set a
bookmark as appropriate -- so that failing to serve developers by the
default homepage has low cost, while failing to serve managers by it
(even though it were true that *EVEN IN THE FUTURE* most visitors will
be developers) may well have higher costs.

This doesn't necessarily have to do with "money" or "corporate power",
but rather with ability of the two sub-audiences to negotiate different
levels of difficulty -- what's trivial to a developer may well not be
to an executive.  Analogy: say that due to space constraints (adapting
to public use an existing Renaissance building, a frequent case around
here) I have to choose EITHER a few steps or stairs OR a ramp as the
building's main public access way.  Maybe for 95% of the visitors the
stairs are marginally more convenient than the ramp.  If one were to
apply Fernando's mistakenly-stated principle, one would choose stairs.
But actually the inconvenience of ramps vs stairs to those 95% of users
is minor, call it 0.01 in some arbitrary unit of utility -- while for
the 5% of visitors who are wheelchair-bound, the stairs are *WAY* more
problematic than the ramp, say by 10.0 in the same unit of measure.

So if one were to follow Fernando's principle of serving the majority
of use cases, overall loss of utility for 100 visitors would be 50.0
units (10.0 each for the 5 wheelchair-bound visitors); by following the
RIGHT principle of maximizing overall utility (WEIGHING the frequency
by the cost, a TRUE key principle of design!), the overall loss of
utility would be 0.95 (0.01 each for the 95 non-wheelchair-bound
visitors).  Thus, the application of Fernando's mistaken principle
would be a minor tragedy in term of design failure in this hypothetical
case.  It's not an issue of anybody being a "second class citizen",
as Fernando emotionally puts it: it IS an issue of the ables and
strongest, even if in a majority, making a (to them) minor sacrifice
to help less-able and weaker ones, even if in a minority, avoid what
(to them) might more likely be a serious problem.

If designers will consider this issue more generally when making their
key architectural decisions, then this whole weird thread may have
repaid itself by this single observation;-).


Alex




From roy at panix.com  Mon Sep 15 20:29:10 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:29:10 -0400
Subject: object.attribute vs. object.getAttribute()
Message-ID: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com>

For the past 6-8 months, I've spent most of my time writing C++ and a 
little bit of Java.  Both of these languages support and encourage the 
use of private data and explicit accessor functions, i.e. instead of 
writing x = foo.bar, you write x = foo.getBar().  Now that I'm back to 
writing Python, I find myself in a quandry.

Historically, I've always avoided accessor functions and just reached 
directly into objects to get the value of their attributes.  Since 
Python doesn't have private data, there really isn't much advantage to 
writing accessors, but somehow I'm now finding that it just feels wrong 
not to.  I'm not sure if this feeling is just a C++/Java-ism that will 
cure itself with time, or if perhaps it really does make sense and I 
should change the way I code.

On the plus side, accessors/mutators give me:

1) Implicit documentation of which attributes I intended to be part of 
an object's externally visible state (accessors).
2) Hooks to do data checking or invarient assertions (mutators).
3) Decoupling classes by hiding the details of data structures.
4) Vague feeling that I'm doing a good thing by being more in line with 
mainstream OO practices :-)

On the minus side:

1) More typing (which implies more reading, which I think reduces the 
readability of the finished product).
2) Need to write (and test) all those silly little functions.
3) Performance hit due to function call overhead.
4) Only the appearance of private data (modulo some slots hackery).
5) Code is harder to change (adding functionality means going back and 
adding more slots).
6) Vague feeling that I'm dirtying myself by letting C++ and Java change 
my Python coding habits :-)

Comments?



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Sep 10 03:47:58 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:47:58 +0200
Subject: I need to make Excel/Powerpoint-style charts.
References: <mailman.1063120814.8263.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjmkha$pmd$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote:
> Hi-
> 
> 
> My office produces a lot of charts based on time-series data.  We use MS
> powerpoint and excel to make these charts.  The data gets updated
> regularly, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to automate updating
> the charts using these packages.  So, we spend a non-trivial amount of
> time manually updating lots of spreadsheets to redraw the charts we need.
> 
> I hope to find some sort of python graphics library that can make charts
> similar to Excel and Powerpoint, and then I can start automating these
> tasks.
> 
> Here is an example of the charts we make:
> 
> http://www.sarcastic-horse.com/example.pdf #52k size file.
> 
> Are there any packages that can do similar charts?  I need to be able to
> chart time-series data with occasional missing observations.  I also need
> to be able to shade some regions of the charts, and add text titles,
> captions and notes.
> 
> I'm (slowly) learning the reportlab package, and it looks good, but I
> wanted to check if there was an even better solution out there.
> 
> Thanks for the help.

Maybe you'll be interested in gdchart/PyGDChart: http://www.fred.net/brv/chart
I'm not really sure it can do everything you want, though...

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 19:32:16 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 00:32:16 +0100
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
References: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87bru1fny7.fsf@pobox.com>

janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine) writes:

> As you add more items, say text lines, in Text widget, it gets too
> slow and almost impractical to use on. Take idle for example. If the
> text gets bigger(e.g. print
[...]

> Is there any way to speed up Text widget, or should I look for another
> GUI library?

I'm surprised that you're having trouble with it, actually, but:

How about something like Scintilla?  I'm not sure about wx and Tk, but
Scintilla is available for GTk and Qt, IIRC (the latter is a port,
called QScintilla).  There might well be something similar for wx or
Tk.  Or maybe the standard Qt or GTk text widgets are themselves more
scalable than their wx or Tk counterparts -- no idea.

If you specifically want a Python shell, I think eric3 uses
QScintilla, so there should be code in there you can use.


John



From anand_soliton at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 21:02:37 2003
From: anand_soliton at yahoo.com (Anand)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 18:02:37 -0700
Subject: Python C extension: Value different if passed as list than if passed as number
References: <3f5dc178.0309101343.256bb7f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f5dc178.0309101702.7294c356@posting.google.com>

My bad. I wanted to a inplace memory write for an int. so 

i = 0;
func(i);
print i;

======
output = 1.

The funny thing is python doesnt use 0 as 0. instead it points to a
memory location whose value = 0.

Since in my inplace replace, i changed that value from 0 to 1, 
test[0] actually became test[1] :))

so i had tons of strange behavior happening. I shouldnt have made an
immutable object as mutable.



From rzantow at ntelos.net  Wed Sep 17 04:21:20 2003
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 04:21:20 -0400
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
References: <mailman.1063781063.16709.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZGU9b.1517$%T3.1405@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>

Arthur wrote:
> Ron asks -
>
>> Any other ideas would be appreciated. Meanwhile, I would be
>> interested if anyone would offer thoughts on which of the 5
>> directions for future activity sound most interesting.
>
> Sorry Ron.
>
> Can you remind me what the connection to CP4E is, and why you are
> headlining that slogan in connection with your work.
>
> You, as did I with my own project, with sustained effort over a three
> year period -  starting, let's say from scratch - produced something
> of which each of us can hopefully be rightfully proud.
>
> Three years of sustained effort.
>
> But we seemed to have taken away different lessons.
>
> My expereince led me to look upon the CP4E slogan quite askance.
> Yours, apparently, allowed you to embrace it.
>
> It seems to me "everybody" who's imagination is ignited by something
> to the extent that it carries them through 3 years of sustained
> effort can expect to be doing "computer programming" somewhere along
> that line.
>
> Not very surprising, really.
>
> No slogans helped me along - that I do know.
>
> It was three years of sustained effort.
>
> For everybody?
>
> Are we *required* to embrace that notion?
>
> Yes everybody  - let's say - has that potential. But that was true
> before Python came along.
>
> For some - like myself - Python was a real factor in helping realize
> that potential. I am a raving fan, in fact.
>
> But I do not discount my 3 years of sustained effort as anything less
> than 3 years of sustained effort, and seem to  think that that was a
> bit of factor, as well.
>
> And would love to see the CP4E slogan go away now, peacefully and
> happily.
>

This post is very confusing to me. I'm not sure what a three-year project in
itself has to do with CP4E. Would you say that a slogan like "Literacy for
Everyone" should go away because it took you three years to write a novel?

I've worked on very few programs that required a three-year sustained
effort. The large projects that did are not, I think, in any way related to
the idea of CP4E. To my mind, the things that are related are three-minute
projects (well, okay, a little longer than that): quick programs that are
purpose-built to allow an actual job to be done. By "actual job" I mean the
job of, say, teaching, or editing, or whatever it is that the
non-programmers who create the handy little programs are paid to do. Some of
those utilities are useful enough to work into more elaborate and general
programs, but not everyone has the same needs, and not everyone has the
dedication or capability to do the sustained work you seem to be talking
about.

I would certainly never discount a three-year project; the effort is
laudable, and presenting the result to others can be daunting. Most of the
programs 'everyone' writes do not, I believe, fall into that category. But
they make the lives of their users a little better nonetheless, and that, it
seems to me, is the point of CP4E.

--
rzed






From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Sep 11 10:27:29 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:27:29 +0200
Subject: 1.5 vs. 2x - build problem
In-Reply-To: <MOZ7b.84$o71.71@news2.central.cox.net>
References: <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org>
	<MOZ7b.84$o71.71@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3F608651.6080307@ghaering.de>

Steve Holden wrote:
> "Fritz Wuehler" <fritz at expires-200309.rodent.frell.eu.org> wrote:
>>I downloaded a tarball which doesn't compile.  The error message says I
>>need python 2x but all I have is 1.5.  Can I fix the compatability
>>problem and get it to work on 1.5?
> 
> Yes, please do.

On the other hand, you could invest the time and bring your 
software/system up-to-date with Python 2.3. You can just install it in 
/usr/local and leave your previously installed Python alone.

FWIW I, for one, would reject any patches that'd add Python < 2.1 
compatibilty to my software.

-- Gerhard




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Sep 15 21:48:21 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:48:21 +1000
Subject: Web server with Python
In-Reply-To: <sf0cmvo2ccdqnnhe8bmvdfg5cj4099oav3@4ax.com>
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com> <mailman.1063352060.32640.python-list@python.org> <6o24mvcmksid33t4s9b8cbsrnctl5n2o6m@4ax.com> <mailman.1063518260.30336.python-list@python.org> <sf0cmvo2ccdqnnhe8bmvdfg5cj4099oav3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030916014821.GB4093@frobozz>

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:18:25PM +0200, Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:43:30 +1000, Andrew Bennetts
> <andrew-twisted at puzzling.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> >Eek!  Does 1.0.7 (just released) work any better?  Also, what platform are
> >you using, and are you installing from the source .tar.gz or something else?
> 
> I didn't try 1.0.7, didn't even know that it was out. 
> I am on a WinXP box and used the prebuild binaries.

Ah, ok.  The prebuild binaries for Windows only work on one version, and I
think the Windows maintainer has chosen to only support 2.2.  You're welcome
to build your own from the source, or try to convince someone on IRC to
build 2.3 binaries for you ;)

Also, you don't need a compiler to use Twisted.  The C extensions are
entirely optional, and just provide some optimisations over some of the
equivalent pure python modules, but most users would probably never notice
the difference.

> I have started digging into Medusa right now... and stay focused on
> that one until I have a blocking problem or I get bored ;-)

We'll be waiting ;)

-Andrew.





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 07:39:53 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:39:53 +0100
Subject: Reportlab Image object opens filehandles
References: <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <a$XXohAJCbY$Ew0a@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1 at hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>, Michael Schmitt
<nomail at nomail.com> writes
>Hello.
>
>I am trying to build a pdf document using:
>---
>from reportlab.platypus.flowables import Image
>lst = []
>for filename in imageFiles:
>    I= Image(filename, width= 300, height= 300)
>    lst.append(I)
>---
>Creating an Image object seems to open a filehandle, so if the size of 
>imageFiles increases, I get "IOError: [Errno 24] Too many open files" on a 
>Solaris machine, where the number of simultaneously opened filehandles 
>seems to be limited to roughly 255.
>
>Is there a way to produce a pdf document with a large number of images 
>without running into the problem of too many open filehandles?
>
>Thanks for any hints.
>Michael
>
>
I have implemented an attempt at a lazy platypus Image, but haven't time
to test it right now. If you contact me I can send it you directly.
-- 
Robin Becker



From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Mon Sep 15 04:33:06 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 01:33:06 -0700
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
References: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0309150033.3622d1f9@posting.google.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in message news:<roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003 at reader2.panix.com>...
> My apologies for a somewhat silly posting, but after 6 years of hacking 
> Python, I finally found a use for lambda!  I wanted to write a unit test 
> to prove that a given dictionary does not have a given key.  Since 
> assertRaises requires its second argument to be something callable, 
> instead of writing:
> 
>         self.assertRaises (KeyError, foo['bar'])
> 
> I had to write:
> 
>         self.assertRaises (KeyError, lambda: foo['bar'])
> 
> Of course, now that I think about it, I could have also written:
> 
>         self.assertEqual (foo.has_key ('bar')), 0)
> 
> so I guess I didn't really need the lambda after all :-)

Lambda is pretty useless in Python, unfortunately. List comprehensions
reduce their uses with filter and map, and any more complex closure
has to be written as a named function anyway.. I wish lambda would
allow statements in them also, so I could do

func(lambda x: arr[x] = y)

Little closures like that are sometimes handy. But having to do

def fn(x): arr[x] = y
func(fn)

is not too much of a burden. Lambda would be just nicer.
The current use I've had for lambda has been similar to yours. I
wanted a separate thread to initialize something in a class on
the background, so I did something like

threading.Thread(target=lambda: self.doSomething(a, b, c)).start()

I think I've used it elsewhere too but I don't have my sources
here.



From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep 30 19:06:25 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:06:25 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <m3smmfqa5l.fsf@ieee.org>
 <cddn41-je7.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <m38yo6r0t1.fsf@ieee.org>
 <6ojo41-424.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <m3vfrafeol.fsf@ieee.org>
 <8hpo41-m84.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <m3n0clg9la.fsf@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

> Jorge Godoy fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 30 September 2003 
> 09:01 am:
>
>> 
>> The most interesting thing is that I get an error in Windows but I
>> don't get such an error in Linux.
>>
>         spawnv() is probably a direct match with a unix/linux system call, so 
> the arguments are just being passed on -- and what linux does when it 
> gets the address of a string where it expected an integer constant is 
> unknown to me (probably sees the address /as/ the integer, and since 
> P_WAIT is 0, the runtime is treating any non-zero to be the equivalent 
> of P_NOWAIT)

The behaviour of treating it as nonzero would be expected. What
happens is the opposite of that as I described before: the program
hangs as if it received P_WAIT.


I think that they check explicitly for P_NOWAIT and treat anything
different as zero (P_WAIT). 


The principle of least surprise was violated, IMVHO as a newbie on
that area. :-)


See you,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 22 18:42:57 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 23:42:57 +0100
Subject: string.rstrip
References: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com> <3F6F7709.5EA37011@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <87zngwxx5a.fsf@pobox.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
[...]
> You're using .rstrip incorrectly.  The second argument to string.rstrip
> is a list of characters, any one of which will be stripped if they are
[...]

Erik means 'a sequence of characters', of course, not a list.


John



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Mon Sep 29 19:55:21 2003
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:55:21 -0700
Subject: Prime number module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org>
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <OD3eb.9152$gi2.1152@fed1read01>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote previously:
> |I just wrote a fairly simple sieve, which gave primes up to 1,000,000
> |in a few seconds (1.8GHz P4, Python code). There were 78498 primes in
> |that range...at least in theory there should be less than 100 times as
> |many primes in the range up to 10^8.
> 
> Quite a few less, actually.  Under Gauss' Prime Number Theorem, an
> approximation for the number of primes less than N is N/ln(N).  I know
> there have been some slight refinements in this estimate since 1792, but
> in the ranges we're talking about, it's plenty good enough.
> 
> So I only expect around 5,428,681 primes less than 10^8 to occur.  Well,
> that's not SO much less than 7.8M.
> 
> |So here's the thought - a binary file containing a complete list of
> |primes up to 10^8 would require roughly 30MB (using 32 bit integers,
> |which should comfortably handle your requirement).
> 
> I wonder if such a data structure is really necessary.  Certainly it
> produces a class of answers quite quickly.  I.e. search for a prime, and
> its offset immediately gives you the number of primes less than it.
> Heck, searching for any number, even a composite occurring between
> primes, works pretty much the same way.  Of course, the above
> approximation gives you a close answer even quicker.
> 
> But if you are worried about disk storage, one easy shortcut is to store
> a collection of 16-bit differences between successive primes.  That's
> half the size, and still lets you answer the desired question *pretty*
> quickly (extra addition is required)... or at least generate a local
> copy of Horne's data structure in one pass.
> 
> Moving farther, even this gap structure is quite compressible.  Most
> gaps are quite a bit smaller than 65536, so the highbits are zeros.  In
> fact, I am pretty sure that almost all the gaps are less than 256.  So
> an immediate compression strategy (saving disk space, costing time to
> recreate the transparent structure) is to store gaps as 8-bit values,
> with a x00 byte escaping into a larger value (I guess in the next two
> bytes).
> 
> Maybe I'll try it, and see how small I can make the data... unless I do
> my real work :-).

I believe you could implement a hybrid scheme that would be quite fast 
and still maintain nearly the same level of compression that you 
describe above. In addition to the above compressed data, also store, 
uncompressed, every Nth prime. A binary search will get you within N 
primes of your answer, to find the exact value, recreate those N-primes. 
For a N of, for instance, 64 the level of compression would be minimally 
affected but should make finding the number of primes less than a given 
number number much faster than the basic compressed scheme.

In fact I wouldn't be suprised if this was faster than the uncompressed 
scheme since you're less likely to thrash your memory.

-tim

> Yours, Lulu...
> 
> --
> Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
> of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
> underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
> property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.
> 
> 




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Sep 22 17:28:48 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:28:48 -0300
Subject: Calling functions before that are def'ed
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FDA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Is there a way to define functions after the main part of a Python
#- script?

You don't need this.

I wanted the same thing when started with Python (came from C), but this
implies a poorly modular design.

Better:


#!/usr/bin/env python


def mymain(...):
	...

def func1(...):
	...

def func2(...):
	...

def func3(...):
	...

def func4(...):
	...



# This is the main part
#Very few basic controls about argv, etc...
...
...
mymain(...)


And consider that you're not programming OO.

.	Facundo




From max at ucmg.com.ua  Wed Sep  3 03:51:20 2003
From: max at ucmg.com.ua (Max Ischenko)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:51:20 +0300
Subject: Interoperability between VB and Python under ASP
Message-ID: <bj46f2$kk2$1@voodoo.volia.net>


Hi,

I've started to develop under Microsoft ASP framework, which allows 
different lang. used in a ActiveX page. I wonder about possible 
strategies to use Python modules from VBScript <%%> includes.

Right now I'm thinking about this approaches:
- create a COM server in Python to be able to call it from VB.
   Drawbacks: cumbersome and (probably) slow.
- pure data exchange. Python code sets some data in global env. that is
   afterwards read by VB. Drawbacks: very limited in nature.
- convert all VB pieces that need access to Python modules into Python.

Have I missed something or could anyone comment on this?
Discussion is wellcomed.

-- 
Regards, Max.




From ask at me.com  Thu Sep 11 14:54:46 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:54:46 GMT
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <000d01c37870$181e6020$0c02a8c0@Arts> <mailman.1063297012.18608.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Wx38b.8278$PE6.2683@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

"Geoff Gerrietts" <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063297012.18608.python-list at python.org...
> I think that /your freedom/ ends where /my freedom/ begins. Until you
> can guarantee that your weapon will not be used against me by your
> family members or the conqueror thereof, your freedoms to shoot what
> you want as a hobbyist and to exercise catastrophically lethal force
> in home defense are not compelling arguments.

What freedom of yours does me owning a gun infringe on? Your right not to
worry?

(I've rewritten that 100 times and it still sounds funny gramatically. I
appologise.)


greg





From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Thu Sep 18 03:28:06 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:28:06 +0200
Subject: Simple python cgi question
References: <MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net> <87llsnmrw4.fsf@flibuste.net>
 <wG6dneAarP2YP_WiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net> <87znh3411g.fsf@flibuste.net>
 <3sScnYrZ8I14cvWiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <871xuea73t.fsf@flibuste.net>

Stephen Boulet <stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net> writes:

> I don't want report lab since I'll be using lilypond to generate the
> pdfs (I mentioned that I'd be calling the pdf generating program from
> python).
>
> What I needed to know was how to upload a file, really. I thought it
> might be trivial, but maybe not so ...

Yes it's trivial, you'll retreive the file with cgi.FieldStorage(),
you'll pass it to your local app with popen (a pipe) and retreive the
pdf with the pipe or open (a file), control the size of the buffer and
send the result with print.

Before, you'll print the right header content-type: application/pdf

bye

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From jroznfgre at jngpugbjreQBGbet.cy  Mon Sep 15 06:49:19 2003
From: jroznfgre at jngpugbjreQBGbet.cy (JZ)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:49:19 +0200
Subject: caching the sql queries
Message-ID: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com>

Is there any equivalent of caching sql queries for Python like ADOdb
for PHP? (For those who did not hear about ADODb and its feature :
http://phplens.com/adodb/caching.of.recordsets.html)

-- 
JZ




From sancho-fx1 at gmx.de  Wed Sep 10 04:54:51 2003
From: sancho-fx1 at gmx.de (marcus b.)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:54:51 +0200
Subject: java pythpn extension (JPE) download fails
Message-ID: <bjmotr$kkrr6$2@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I'm trying to get a current version of the java python extensin (JPE), but
the the link on http://jpe.sourceforge.net/
(http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=60438) is not
working. I searched the web to get some other source of download, but
everyone seems referring to this site. Has anyone sucessfully downloaded
this JPE recently? Any hint how to get JPE would be very nice..!

Greetings Marcus



From cygwin-help at cygwin.com  Fri Sep  5 12:44:07 2003
From: cygwin-help at cygwin.com (cygwin-help at cygwin.com)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 16:44:07 -0000
Subject: ezmlm response
Message-ID: <1062780247.22135.ezmlm@cygwin.com>

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From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Tue Sep 16 14:15:30 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:15:30 +0200
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <8765jsppkt.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

"Ivan Voras" <ivoras at fer.hr> writes:

> Are there any performance/size differences between using tuples and using
> lists?
>

I made the timings of creation/unpacking/indexing for short
tuples/lists and loops for longer tuples/lists. In Python 2.1, 2.2 and
2.3 creation and unpacking of short tuples is 2x/3x faster which is
what you may expact knowing they are fixed size, but indexing is
slightly slower for tuples which I didn't expect. Whether you loop
over tuple or list does matter only for 2.2 (tuples are 30% slower).
Where there is 2x difference or 30% difference it is reproducable in
subsequent runs of of the script given below. 


lupan at psi:[~/dyplom/src]$ sh tuple-vs-list.sh
2.1
creation
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.442 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.1 usec per loop
unpacking
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.58 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.23 usec per loop
indexing
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.369 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.339 usec per loop
looping
tuple 10000 loops, best of 3: 170 usec per loop
list  10000 loops, best of 3: 173 usec per loop
2.2
creation
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.341 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.96 usec per loop
unpacking
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.457 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 1.09 usec per loop
indexing
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.286 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.264 usec per loop
looping
tuple 10000 loops, best of 3: 149 usec per loop
list  10000 loops, best of 3: 114 usec per loop
2.3
creation
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.286 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.672 usec per loop
unpacking
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.387 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.761 usec per loop
indexing
tuple 1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.204 usec per loop
list  1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.19 usec per loop
looping
tuple 10000 loops, best of 3: 74.6 usec per loop
list  10000 loops, best of 3: 76.3 usec per loop


# tuple-vs-list.py
TIMEIT=/usr/lib/python2.3/timeit.py
# they are big as I have fast machine
N=1000000
N2=10000

for ver in 2.1 2.2 2.3; do
    echo $ver
    echo -ne 'creation\ntuple '
    python$ver -O $TIMEIT -n $N '(1,2,3)'
    echo -n 'list  '
    python$ver -O $TIMEIT -n $N '[1,2,3]'
    echo -ne 'unpacking\ntuple '
    python$ver -O $TIMEIT -n $N 'a,b,c = (1,2,3)'
    echo -n 'list  '
    python$ver -O $TIMEIT -n $N 'a,b,c = [1,2,3]'
    echo -ne 'indexing\ntuple '
    python$ver -O $TIMEIT -n $N -s 'x = (1,2,3)' 'x[1]'
    echo -n 'list  '
    python$ver -O $TIMEIT -n $N -s 'x = [1,2,3]' 'x[1]'
    echo -ne 'looping\ntuple '
    python$ver -O $TIMEIT -n $N2 -s 'r = tuple(range(1000))' 'for x in r: pass'
    echo -n 'list  '
    python$ver -O $TIMEIT -n $N2 -s 'r = range(1000)' 'for x in r: pass'
done

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep 27 13:20:44 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 17:20:44 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net> <mailman.1064580340.26537.python-list@python.org> <vijanv0lloncphml3mcjohgjukkv1eea4p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bl4gtc$lmn$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:47:47 +0100, Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:44:30 +0200, Ronald Oussoren
><oussoren at cistron.nl> wrote:
>
>>The fun you can have on windows, I've  
>>managed to create files that cannot be removed :-)
>
>I've had that one simply by saving a web page in IE. Seriously
>annoying.
>
Do you mean windows exploder will not even delete it with right-click, delete?
Or doesn't it show up at all? (how do you know it exists? dos dir?)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ads at chead.org  Wed Sep 17 05:42:44 2003
From: ads at chead.org (ads)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:42:44 +0700
Subject: GTK help
Message-ID: <215410979.20030917164244@chead.org>

I use PYGTK 2.0.0 for python 2.3 and GTK Runtime 2.2.4 under windows98

--------------- Replied message --------------
The Bat! mailer ver 1.53d
----------------------------------------------
Date    : Wednesday, September 17, 2003 
>From    : David M. Cook <davecook at nowhere.net>
To      : python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>
Subject : GTK help
----------------------------------------------
In article <mailman.1063773682.29572.python-list at python.org>, ads wrote:

> I need some help, whe trying to run some gtk examples, show below
> messages:
[...]
>     store = gtk.ListStore(StockItemInfo)
> TypeError: could not get typecode from object

> It show up when I run pygtk\examples\pygtk-demo\demos\stock_browser.py

Which versions of pygtk and gtk are you using?

Dave Cook
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


----------------------------------------------





From gandreas at no.reply  Mon Sep 29 15:16:12 2003
From: gandreas at no.reply (Glenn Andreas)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:16:12 -0500
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <gandreas-21AC09.14161229092003@news.mpls.visi.com>

In article <vngnif6v8ip4c6 at corp.supernews.com>,
 "Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:

> I've just about convinced myself there is no good, clean solution to the
> following puzzle.  I wonder if you agree.
[snip]
> For example, doing the following at the top of leoGlobals doesn't work:
> 
> import leoApp
> app = leoApp.leoApp() # construct the app instance.
> 
> Indeed, the leoApp module will be imported before the assignment of app.
> Moreover, the leoApp module does other imports, and all the app variables in
> those modules will be uninitialized.
> 
> It would be horrible style to place detailed constraints on the order in
> which modules get imported, and I'm not sure even that would work.
> 
> Any ideas for a clean solution?  Thanks.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like you want some sort of 
lazy initialization thing here.  Perhaps using a proxy object sort of 
like this might work:


realApp = None
class LeoProxy:
   def __getattr__(self,attr):
      if not realApp:
         import leoApp
         realApp = leoApp.leoApp()
      return getattr(realApp, attr)

app = LeoProxy()


Then you can import that module as often as you want, but the first time 
you do something with leoApp.app (i.e., "leoApp.app.doSomething()"), it 
will only then call the "real" function to create it (and then proxy it 
over as needed)



From edreamleo at charter.net  Wed Sep  3 09:09:35 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:09:35 -0500
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlbq0gg0970s79@corp.supernews.com>

> there is another famous book 'Writing solid code' but does it apply to
> Python ? Or it's usable only by Microsoft C programmers ? The author
> seems to be an ex-Microsoft guy !

Interesting question.  This book probably makes a good indirect case for
using Python rather than C.  I found it useful back when I was I C
programmer.  Python makes many of the points in the book moot, and the last
chapter on attitude applies universally.  For example, assertions are much
less useful in Python because the interpreter essentially asserts many
properties of each statement.  In Python one wants assertions only for
conditions that the interpreter can't possibly deduce.

BTW, back when I was a C programmer the book "Code Complete" would have been
a complete answer to the question, "what do you do?"  It's still relevant, I
would guess.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Sep 11 10:42:56 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:42:56 -0400
Subject: GET and POST
In-Reply-To: <xc%7b.1420$95.169@newsr2.u-net.net>; from opo@opo.com on Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 03:58:52PM +0200
References: <xc%7b.1420$95.169@newsr2.u-net.net>
Message-ID: <20030911104256.B32566@cerberus.liberty>

* franck (opo at opo.com) wrote:
> HI,
> 
> this is my code
> params = {}
> 
> params['fuseaction'] = '*****';
> params['user'] = '***';
> params['password'] = '**********';
> params['num_card'] = '******';
> params['date_of_birth'] = '****';
> 
> params = urllib.urlencode(params)
> f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com",params)


According to the urllib documentation (I've never used urllib, only
httplib), all you have to do is change:

f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com",params)
to
f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com?%s" % params)

Here is the example from the documentation for a GET (found at
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node415.html):

>>> import urllib
>>> params = urllib.urlencode({'spam': 1, 'eggs': 2, 'bacon': 0})
>>> f = urllib.urlopen("http://www.musi-cal.com/cgi-bin/query?%s" % params)
>>> print f.read()

I haven't whether this works or not, so I take no responsibility for any
damage caused by this code ;-)

Jeremy Jones




From mike at nospam.com  Thu Sep  4 13:44:23 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:44:23 -0700
Subject: Where to post useful code
References: <2e1f6497.0309040646.3dcce9fb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj7tlv$i6l$1@sea.gmane.org>

RichB wrote:
> I've written a few scripts that might be very useful to small groups
> of people (i.e. extracting time stamps from pictures taken with Sony
> digital cameras).
> I don't want to start sourceforge projects or anything big like that.
> I just want to make some stuff available. Where can I post/upload my
> stuff?

You have several options:
- Python Cookbook (http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python)
which is a searcheble storage place with small discussion attached

- PythonInfo Wiki (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/HiddenJewels)
which lets other people to extend your code and/or discuss it

- Vaults of Parnassus (http://www.vex.net/parnassus/)
which is most comprehensive but messy collection of python stuff referencies

- Python Package Index (http://www.python.org/pypi)
in case you promote your code to community useful package

HTH,
Mike







From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 21:19:31 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:19:31 +0300
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <y7Ncb.3617$RW4.1457@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <pnjanv02metj5q30ivo2h3qhon03egaf59@4ax.com> <BHjdb.5330$RW4.4732@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <s9mhnvgb5vng55tqq280t6tp8h3ab449v5@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:22:41 GMT, rumours say that "Andrew Dalke"
<adalke at mindspring.com> might have written:

>BTW, the similarity-but-not-the-same between DOS and unix
>caused me problems when I started using unix.  See, under DOS
>there's this great utility called "unerase" which can be used to
>recover files accidentally deleted.  Only I would deliberately
>delete a file in order to probe the system; eg, is this file really
>used?

Safe wisdom: mv (move, ren for old DOS) would be better, right?

>And I wanted to see if the script really used the C compiler....
>
>Had to reinstall IRIX to fix that one.

If 'inst same' wasn't enough, then that should have been a really old
version of Irix... :(
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From jerome.vacher at gehis.fr  Tue Sep 30 07:55:50 2003
From: jerome.vacher at gehis.fr (Jerrykhan)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 04:55:50 -0700
Subject: Best Bug Tracker on Zope platform ?
Message-ID: <62f2814b.0309300355.6091dd84@posting.google.com>

Hello,
who know the best Bug tracker system on a Python/Zope server ?
BugZilla is Perl oriented (beuh !!)
What about others ?
Is A python oriented BugZilla like exists ? or need I write it ?

On a zope one or behind an apache one.

Any ideas ?
Thanks .. 

JerryKhan the foolish dracomorpheus.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep 15 16:53:48 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 16:53:48 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <bk58ss$o9$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mwo9b.242$B13.103 at reader1.news.jippii.net>,
Harri Pesonen  <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote:
>
>The point I was trying to make (not in this message but in general) is 
>that it would be simple (trivial but tedious) to create a version of 
>Python that is thread-safe, and the only reason it is not done is 
>because it would break old code. 

You're wrong.  You have refused to do your research, and you have been
ignoring information people provide to you.

>Only one global variable left (in fact there is Py_None as well). 

You're wrong.  There are only two global *C* variables -- but all Python
objects are global.  Most people want to share information between
threads; as soon as that becomes a requirement, you run into *BIG*
problems with refcounting and garbage collection when you do free
threading.  That doesn't even count the problem I mentioned earlier
about interfacing with thread-unsafe libraries.

Now, would you care to learn how Python actually works before making
further pronouncements?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 18:23:24 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 23:23:24 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062938172.20708.python-list@python.org> <87vfs4mxgg.fsf@voodoo.fake> <v4lmlvkav0fui6trcj39khbevvm9u1u8eh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <873cf8jl0j.fsf@pobox.com>

John Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net> writes:

> On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 17:26:23 +0200, Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Zeldman's post about the new version:
> >http://zeldman.com/daily/0803a.shtml#validator
> 
> 
> When I view _this_ site in IE6, it has low-contrast text in a small
> size, which "view|text size" cannot change.

Presumably they view that as an IE bug.


John



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Sep  6 18:00:37 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:00:37 -0700
Subject: Need help on UNICODE conversion
References: <5lbklvgtlm6l4e1n51tnbin151drrh4410@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F5A5905.9E8571E3@alcyone.com>

Bernd Preusing wrote:

> I have a JPG file which contains some comment as unicode.
> 
> After reading in the string with s=file.read(70) from file offest 4
> I get a string which is shown as
> 'UNICODE\\0x00\\ox00K\\0x00o' and so forth in the debugger
> (using Komodo).

As others have pointed out, this seems to be an unfaithful cut and
paste; to really tell what it is we'd have to see the actual contents of
the string.  If it is really Unicode, however, it looks like it might be
a UTF-16 encoding.  Try 'utf-16' for the encoding name.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You're wasting time / Asking what if / You linger on too long
\__/  Chante Moore



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Sep 25 21:42:37 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:42:37 -0600
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path
  separator?
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030925194134.0279ad00@66.28.54.253>

At 05:50 PM 9/25/2003, Stephen Ferg wrote:

>I have a question that is not directly Python-related.  But I thought
>I'd ask the most erudite group that I know... :-)
>
>When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
>character?

Good question. Certainly later than:

Microsoft Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195]
(C) Copyright 1985-2000 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>cd /samis
The syntax of the command is incorrect.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Sep 23 11:40:38 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:40:38 -0300
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FE7@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- In my understanding, using try/except rather than if/else is more 
#- pythonic. However, sometimes it is difficult to use the later.

It's more pythonic to use always the right tool for the problem.


#- For example, I want to search for a sub string in a list composed of 
#- strings. It is considered "possitive" if there is a match, 
#- no matter how 
#- many.
#- 
#- my_test = ['something', 'others', 'still others']
#- 
#- case 1: try/except
#- 
#- hit = 0
#- for i in my_test:
#-     try:
#-        i.index('some')
#-        hit = 1
#-     except ValueError:
#-        pass
#- 
#- 
#- 
#- case 2: if/else
#- 
#- hit = 0
#- for i in my_test:
#-     if 'some' in i:
#-        hit = 1
#- 

IMHO, better the case 2. One detail, stop the iteration when you have an ok
(code untested):

for i in my_test:
	if 'some in i:
		hit = 1
		break
else:
	hit = 0


.	Facundo




From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 22:17:24 2003
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 19:17:24 -0700
Subject: python module for MS SQL Server 7 or 2000?
References: <c718a6cf.0309071116.6f080c95@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062962816.30157.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0309071817.503e244d@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062962816.30157.python-list at python.org>...
> Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> > I have searched and only found references to using ODBC or some
> > ancient posts about some ancient sybase library under linux, neither
> > of which meets my critiera. [...]
> 
> Tried Google? Doesn't look like so:
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=python%20ms%20sql%20server
> 
> -- Gerhard

yes and nothing meets my criteria. I need something that is stable and
cross platform without any dependancies on any other libraries or
depenacny on linux



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Sep  3 13:17:59 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:17:59 -0400
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL? (fwd)
Message-ID: <HJiV/kKkXkXT092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote previously:
|There are legal reasons: Perhaps the software will be found to violate
|a patent, or infringe copyright.  Perhaps it will be judged to violate a
|DMCA-type law.  Perhaps a new "software defects" law will be impossible
|for free software to conform to (for instance, due to a requirement that
|the software developer post a bond against damages caused by defects in
|the software).

Yeah... and perhaps the word 'disingenuous' will be removed from future
editions of popular dictionaries; and then we will lack a concise way to
describe "special pleading" of this sort.  I think it's unlikely though.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 23 17:35:01 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:35:01 +0200
Subject: Newbie question, problem with functions
References: <31bd93f0.0309231304.329c9589@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkqec8$2hk$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Rickard Karlsson wrote:

> I have wrote this little program, that is supposed to execute eg. the
> Linux ls command  when you press a button. Te problem is that all the
> commands are run automaticly and they won't run when I press the
> associated button. Wath am I do wrong?

[...]
> b1 = Button(frame, text = "ls", command = self.execute('ls'))
> b2 = Button(frame, text = "ls -alh", command = self.execute('ls
> -alh'))
> b3 = Button(frame, text = "pwd", command = self.execute('pwd'))
[...]

You are in fact passing the result of self.execute(...), i. e. None, instead
of the method. Do

b3 = Button(frame, text="pwd", command=lambda: self.execute('pwd'))

instead or define wrapper methods like so:

def executeLs(self):
    self.execute("ls")

and assign them to the buttons without a trailing (), e. g.:

b1 = Button(frame, text="ls", command=self.executeLs)

Peter



From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep 11 10:10:09 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:10:09 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Canvas/Grid question
References: <vlvm553ie2is04@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1063282337.6930.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjpvr3$67v$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net>

Thank you for the comprehensive explanations you gave I was to lazy to do
;-)
In addition I should like to point out a chapter from Nancy Walsh's book
"Learning Perl/Tk" where one can find a lot of information about the
different geometry managers (no prejudices against Perl I hope?)
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lperltk/chapter/ch02.html

> The other problem you may run into (I haven't run your code, but with
> many levels of widget present, this may be a problem) is that each
> level of the widget tree between this one containing the canvas, and the
> Toplevel() or Tk() above it, must also be configured so that they will
> expand to consume any extra available space

This had been one of the problems, so I suggested to use an appropriate
paramtrized pack on the higher level for simplicity.

Kindly
Michael P





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 24 17:32:07 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:32:07 -0400
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <p2ocb.3896$gi2.263@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <3F720D57.485718EC@engcorp.com>

Tim Hochberg wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Chris Liechti wrote:
> >
> >>Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote re:
> >>
> >>>PyThreadState_SetAsyncEnc
> >
> >
> >>>Presumably somebody will come up with a little extension module or
> >>>other technique for calling this which will let anyone use it at will,
> >>>so I'm unclear on why it should be made inaccessible from Python.
> >>
> >>why bother with c, just use ctypes to call the function ;-)
> >
> > How would one do that?  It would make for an easy way to experiment
> > with it, in the 0.001% of cases where a non-newbie one might want to
> > do such a thing.  ;-)
> >
> > Is this function available in a DLL somewhere?  I can't find even
> > a single reference to that name anywhere in the Python23 directory
> > tree on Win32 after a fresh install.
> 
> It's here:
> 
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

Sorry, Tim, I meant the PyThreadState_SetAsyncEnc function, not
ctypes itself. :-)  See my other posting, where I report I found it...

-Peter



From luc at nospam.invalid  Fri Sep 19 15:37:06 2003
From: luc at nospam.invalid (luc wastiaux)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:37:06 +0200
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
References: <mailman.1063995987.26144.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.19.19.37.06.257466@nospam.invalid>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:25:23 -0400, pytho wrote:

> Hi-
> 
> 
> I need to make a class for quartlerly dates.  I need to be able to compare
> two quarterly dates and get the number of quarters between them.  For
> example:
> 
>>>> 2001q1 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=1)
>>>> 2001q4 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=4)
>>>> 2001q4 - 2001q1
> 3
> 
> The only problem is that I have no idea how to override operators in
> python.  Can anyone give me a few trivial examples of how it is done?

in your class:

def __sub__(self, mydate):
    # perform self - mydate
    # and return a new qdate object


I can't reach www.python.org but there should be some documentation on
operator overloading. Also, I recommend the book "learning Python" from
O'reilly ( http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython/ ) which covers most of
the things you need to know about python.

-- 
luc wastiaux
 email: luc-at-4002-dot-org
 jabber: luc at jabber.4002.org




From rjc at tampabay.rr.com  Tue Sep 30 17:28:21 2003
From: rjc at tampabay.rr.com (Robert Clayton)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:28:21 GMT
Subject: import  _XXXXXX
References: <XGieb.29792$Of2.1478090@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <mailman.1064947483.21334.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Vzmeb.29908$Of2.1500396@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

O.K.

But in PyKyra most ever Python file begins with _pyKyra.

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064947483.21334.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Robert> When a Python program declares import _XXXX.  What form is
XXXX
>     Robert> when the underbar is included (_XXX)?
>
> There's no special form.  The leading underscore is there to alert people
> they should not normally import that module directly.  For example, people
> should import bsddb, not _bsddb.  Same goes for (the third part modules)
> MySQLdb and _mysql.  In both cases, the former builds on the latter.
>
> Skip
>
>
>





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 16:25:14 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 16:25:14 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bjg47a$euv$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F5B8C51.6462BC38 at alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>
>Could someone remind me what need there is for a redesign in the first
>place?  Of all the Python-related efforts that one could put time into,
>this seems like one of the least useful.

AMK's comment is a bit overdone, so here's something more understated:

The current website has a number of navigation, structural, and content
flaws resulting from the fact that it has grown organically for roughly
a decade.  It is also harder to maintain than we'd prefer.  Finally, it
looks a bit dated.

While we are making some progress at removing cruft, most of us involved
in the work agree that a full-scale redesign would be a Good Idea.

Part of the impetus for doing the work is to streamline the site to make
it easier for Python newcomers (and people investigating Python for
themselves or their organizations) to find the information they want or
need.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From jcribbs at twmi.rr.com  Thu Sep  4 13:13:22 2003
From: jcribbs at twmi.rr.com (Jamey Cribbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:13:22 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE:  MojoView 1.0
Message-ID: <SoK5b.651$FJ5.63332@twister.columbus.rr.com>

MojoView 1.0 is now available at:

http://www.netpromi.com/files/MojoView-1.0.zip


What is MojoView?

MojoView is a Python package that assists you in building simple gui
database applications using PyGTK2.  It consists of a set of classes
that you can subclass in your application.  Each class is either a
dialog or a widget that should be placed inside a dialog, along with
supporting code that handles a lot of the mundane details inherant in
most gui database apps.  I think that this package will mostly help
those new to or unfamiliar with developing PyGTK2 applications.
Experienced PyGTK programmers will have probably already developed their
own libraries providing similar or better functionality.

To find out more about MojoView, go to:

http://www.netpromi.com/mojoview.html







From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep  2 15:55:52 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:55:52 -0500
Subject: Docs on speeding up Python code?
In-Reply-To: <bj2pmv$14ks$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <bj2can$17ea$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
        <bj2pmv$14ks$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <16212.62920.413196.374346@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Andreas> Thanks for the answers. Really a very useful document.

Like most other static pages, my fast python page:

    http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/fastpython.html

can quickly get out-of-date, and I don't have a lot of spare time to work on
it.  I'd be more than happy to set up a Wiki so the community can help
maintain it.  If you think you'd contribute something (however minor) if it
was Wiki-fied, let me know.

Skip




From Dick.Zantow at lexisnexis.com  Wed Sep 10 17:25:05 2003
From: Dick.Zantow at lexisnexis.com (rzed)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:25:05 -0400
Subject: Heisenberg strikes again!
References: <a82d9823.0309101254.39f8f05@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjo4s4$oj1$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com>

neeson wrote:
> Alright, I'm fairly new to Python, and this one has got me stumped.
> I've just started to write a cli program that'll use readline, and
> I've attached the relevant bits.
>
> Here's the mystery:  If I so much as /look/ at the list 'matches',
> readline stops working.  Run the program, hit tab at the prompt,
> you'll get 'one', which is incorrect, as there are in fact four
> possible completions.  Now comment out the line that I've marked
> (which, incidentally, does nothing).  /Now/ it works.
>
> Is there some very strange side effect to accessing a list element
> that I'm unaware of?  I've tried it in two different versions of
> Python.
>
> Any elightenment would be appreciated...
>
> Heath
>
> ps In terms of being useful, this program doesn't make any sense.
> I'm not trying to get it to work, I'm looking to understand why the
> commented line affects the rest of the code.
>
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import readline
> import sys
>
> commands = ["one", "two", "three", "four"]
> matches = []
>
> def comp(text, state):
>     if state == 0:
>         matches = []
>         n = len(text)
>         for cmd in commands:
>             if cmd[:n] == text:
>                 matches.append(cmd)
>     throwaway = matches[0]   # <--- Comment out this line

What is supposed to happen when state != 0? 'matches' will not exist
at that point.

>     return commands[state]
>
> readline.set_completer(comp)
> readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")
>
> while 1:
>     try:
>         line = raw_input("> ")
>     except EOFError:
>         print "\n",
>         sys.exit()
>     print ": %s" % line





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Mon Sep  1 17:09:12 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 14:09:12 -0700
Subject: Structured writing to console, such as a table
References: <mailman.1062445143.10872.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj0cd8$dncsa$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:

> Ok, perhaps a question on a newbie level.
> 
> I try to create a simple 'write to a console application' where
> all the items in a string do have a variable size:
> items = ["a", "bbbbbbbbb", "cc"]
> Well, actually, I need to print a table as simple text, nice lined
> up in a console. So:
> 
> 
> Item:       Value:     Another Value:
> ----------+----------+------------------
> a         | 1        | 2
> bbbbbbbbb | 2        | 17
> cc        | 3        | 5
> 
> My hope was that somewhere in python land an existing module was
> waiting for me. A module that also prints lines, headers....
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't find it. Books, Google...
> Before I reinvent this wheel... please give me some tips,
> references, examples...

This is not a solution to your problem, but is something that you
may want to know.  Docutils and the reStructuredText that it
processes support the kind of ASCII tables that you describe.  You
may want to check the Docutils/reStructuredText specification.  If
you follow that specification you will be able to send your
tables through a Docutil tool to produces HTML, LaTeX, etc.

Docutils, by the way, is implemented in Python.

See:

    http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/rst/quickref.html#tables
    http://docutils.sourceforge.net/
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/docutils/

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Sep 16 18:31:28 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:31:28 -0700
Subject: scoping with lambda in loops
References: <7f9e1817.0309161338.20fbdcbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-D67C09.15312816092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <7f9e1817.0309161338.20fbdcbc at posting.google.com>,
 imcmeans at telus.net (Ian McMeans) wrote:

> First, I made multiple lambda functions inside a loop, each of which
> depended on the current loop variable.
> 
> >>> a = []
> >>> for index in range(5):
> 	a.append(lambda: index)
> 
> 
> Now, see if you can guess what the output was for each of the
> functions in the list a:
> >>> a[0](), a[1](), a[2](), a[3](), a[4]()
> I had expected it to be (0, 1, 2, 3, 4), but actually, it's:
> 
> (4, 4, 4, 4, 4)
> 
> This really surprised me. I guess what is happening is that each
> lambda knows what the context of execution is where it was defined,
> and doesn't actually evaluate until the function is called, and when
> it does evaluate, it uses the current value of the variable. Is this
> related to static scoping?

It's related to closures.  If you're using lambda, you're probably a 
lisp programmer, and should know all about closures.  Creating a 
function object with def or lambda, within an outer function scope, 
creates a closure for that outer function call.  The inner function's 
accesses to variables from the outer function will return the 
most-recently-updated binding from the closure.  If you call the outer 
function again, you will get a different unrelated closure.

If you the inner function to have its own local variable that stores 
some expression value as it existed at the creation time of the inner 
function, rather than re-evaluating the expression whenever the inner 
function is called, the standard way is to use a defaulted keyword 
parameter:

a = []
for index in range(5):
    a.append(lambda index=index: index)

or maybe more concisely

a = [lambda index=index: index for index in range(5)]

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep  1 12:36:52 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:36:52 -0400
Subject: method (a, b = '', *c, **d): gets a syntax error?
References: <3F4F644D.2060003@uni-bonn.de> <3dqcndZe5u2g4NKiXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bio39s$2ai$03$1@news.t-online.com> <-6-dnRcax4ZCW9KiXTWJkA@comcast.com> <mailman.1062413106.20681.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <je2dnRUcYbU46M6iXTWJkA@comcast.com>

>(Gerrit Holl) Python 2.3 does the same.
>
> Python 2.3 (#1, Aug  5 2003, 14:13:25)
> [GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
information.
>   0 >>> zip(**(),)
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     zip(**(),)
>             ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>   1 >>> def foo(**a,): pass
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     def foo(**a,): pass
>                ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Thank you for the verification. I have submitted doc bug report SF
798652

>(Michael Hudson): Because that's what the grammar says

After the grammer in 5.3.4 follows :"A trailing comma may be present
after an argument list but does not affect the semantics. "  I
suggested instead "If an argument list does *not* end with *expr or
**expr, a trailing comma may be added without affecting the
semantics."

I also suggested a change in 7.5 Function definitions to the
production for parameter_list.

>(Piet von Oostrum) [Explanation of why '**dic,)' should be error]

I agree, which is why I filed as doc bug.  Note

>>> def fl(*lis,): pass
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    def fl(*lis,): pass
                ^ # points at ')'
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

The error is detected as ')' instead of ',' because **dic could have
followed, but didn't.

Terry J. Reedy





From Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com  Tue Sep  2 08:23:11 2003
From: Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com (Harri Pesonen)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 05:23:11 -0700
Subject: Simple question: How to pass a C++ class reference to a callback?
Message-ID: <17fbc98a.0309020423.11ac7b8d@posting.google.com>

How do I pass the calling C++ class reference (or anything) to a callback?
My code is:

static PyObject*
emb_Set(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    char *key, *value;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &key, &value))
        return NULL;
    // do something with the C++ class here
    // how the get the class instance pointer?
    Py_INCREF(Py_None);
    return Py_None;
}

static PyMethodDef EmbMethods[] = {
    {"Set", emb_Set, METH_VARARGS, "Sets the given variable."},
    {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
};

in C++ class:

    Py_Initialize();
    Py_InitModule("test", EmbMethods);
    PyRun_SimpleString(script);
    Py_Finalize();

Harri



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep 16 15:04:25 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 20:04:25 +0100
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <873cewy2py.fsf@pobox.com>

hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth) writes:

> This may have been asked before but I can't find it. If I have
> a rectangular list of lists, say, l = [[1,10],[2,20],[3,30]], is 
> there a handy syntax for retrieving the ith item of every sublist?
> I know about [i[0] for i in l] but I was hoping for something more
> like l[;0].

If you need that kind of thing a lot, look at Numeric (or its
replacement, numarray), or perhaps the standard library's array
module.


John



From "mmoum[no-spam-please]" at woh.rr.com  Sun Sep 21 22:06:14 2003
From: "mmoum[no-spam-please]" at woh.rr.com (mmoum[no-spam-please])
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 02:06:14 GMT
Subject: Where does sys.path get initialized
Message-ID: <qOsbb.42572$xx4.5050233@twister.neo.rr.com>

Hi,

Can anyone tell me where sys.path gets initialized?  I know that I can 
import sys and then execute sys.path.append(pathname), but I'd prefer 
not to have to do that everytime I use PythonWin or Idle.  I'm using 
Python on both Linux and Windows XP, and I suspect the process is 
different for each.

Thanks in advance,
Mike




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 11:35:12 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:35:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <bkn12v$tns$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93FEA7FBE3167duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in
news:bkn12v$tns$06$1 at news.t-online.com: 

> My first idea was to add a .dsu(mapping) where the tuples in the
> decoration phase would be generated as (mapping(item), item). 

Note that if anyone proposes this seriously, it should generate a 3-tuple 
(mapping(item), index, item) rather than the 2-tuple you suggest.

This is because the mapping function could reasonably be used to impose an 
ordering on objects that have no natural order, so you need to be sure that 
the comparison never falls through the the original object even where the 
mapping compares equal. It also has the side effect of making the sort 
stable (although if stability is a goal you might want another option to 
reverse the sort which would use '-index' as the second element and call 
.reverse() on the result).

FWIW, I think something like this belongs in the standard library rather 
than as a method on lists or a new builtin.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Sep 22 11:30:44 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:30:44 -0400
Subject: Display message while running...
References: <MPG.19d8c794235fb304989687@news2.atlantic.net>
Message-ID: <kWxb/ks/KnQK089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <MPG.19d8c794235fb304989687 at news2.atlantic.net>,
c42 <nospam at nospam.net> wrote:
>I'm writing a script that needs a message not to touch the screen while
>it runs. (Windows NT/2K/XP)
>I tried win32api.messagebox, but this stops the program until someone
>clicks on OK. (A response (ie. "OK") is not required.)
>Any suggestions?

   I guess the usual messagebox runs modally, meaning the
program that runs it stops while the message is displayed.
I don't know if there's a non-modal equivalent, If not,
cobble up a Dialog and display it using Show for as long as
you need.  (Can't be more specific, as I only know
wxWindows.)

        Regards.        Mel.



From schwerdy at web.de  Thu Sep 11 04:08:05 2003
From: schwerdy at web.de (schwerdy)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 01:08:05 -0700
Subject: file.close() freezes my script
References: <c498bc9a.0309050041.3cc0a254@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062795789.26260.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c498bc9a.0309110008.267725bc@posting.google.com>

Thank you for your answer

Bob Halley <halley at play-bow.org> wrote in message 
> This sounds like a classic pipe deadlock.

I didn't have the time so far to do a workaround, but I'll report if I
fixing succeeds.

Thanks again!

Schwerdy



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep 11 16:43:19 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 22:43:19 +0200
Subject: tkinter, sockets and threads together
References: <79ad5955.0309111133.5f6bf26f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3oexrt5so.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com (Julia Goolia) writes:

> i read that it is bad to use threads with tkinter.  so my question is
> how does one create a gui program with sockets?  at one point you have
> to call mainloop() which does not return.  then you are not free to do
> stuff with the sockets.
> 
> what's up with that?

On Unix, you can use Tk file handlers for sockets, i.e. have Tcl
select(2) not only on the connection to the X11 server (which is a
socket itself), but also select on your sockets. This is readily
supported in _tkinter.

On Windows, you have no choice but to use threads. If the socket
processing threads have no relationship to the Tk thread, everything
is fine. However, in many cases, interaction of some kind is
needed. In this case, it is ok to call Tk methods from other threads,
as long as they translate to "fast" commands, i.e. commands that only
modify state, but don't block - you should not run the mainloop in
multiple threads.

Regards,
Martin




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Sep 12 03:53:08 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:53:08 +0200
Subject: gdmodule clipping
References: <mailman.1063306925.22608.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjrtj1$k6i$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

John Hunter wrote:
> Does gd lib or gdmodule support clipping?  I would like to set a clip
> rectangle and when I issue drawing commands (like im.polygon) have
> only the part of the polygon inside the clip rectangle displayed.

AFAIK, gd doesn't support it natively. But since your clipping region seems to 
be a rectangle, I suppose you could do this by creating a new image having the 
size of your clipping region, draw in this image, then put it back in your main 
image via image.copyTo(...)

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From jcsisko at openlinksw.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 13:00:53 2003
From: jcsisko at openlinksw.co.uk (Jan Csisko)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 10:00:53 -0700
Subject: DB2 driver for windows
References: <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net> <slrnbmugcf.ppc.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <3f6f6c4c$0$1115$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <998aac6a.0309230900.26942d6b@posting.google.com>

Hi Philip,

please note that the Drivers available at http://www.openlinksw.com
will provide you with JDBC as well as ODBC access to DB2 from almost 
any OS.

Hth,
Regards,
Jan


Philip <SPAMtbone at freegates.be> wrote in message news:<3f6f6c4c$0$1115$6c56d894 at feed0.news.be.easynet.net>...
> Dave Benjamin wrote:
> 
> > In article <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894 at feed0.news.be.easynet.net>, Philip
> > wrote:
> >> i'am looking for a db2 driver for windows
> >> the DB2 servers runs on as400 if that makes any difference.
> > 
> > I don't know if you're looking for a native driver, but if you can work
> > with ODBC, I was able to get DB2's ODBC driver (the one that comes with
> > the DB2 client installation) to talk to the mx.ODBC module.
> > 
> > http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html
> > 
> 
> Currently i'am using jython for database administration (because didn't find
> an native driver)
> 
> I like the java jdbc driver because you don't need to install anything
> especialy interesting when sharing code)
> 
> But the downside is that you have the java tiresome api. the obvious reason
> way i have choicen python/jython.
> 
> Well, prefer a native one but if it's easy to install the odbc driver
> that would be fine too.
> 
> Thanks,
> Philip



From adechert at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 16 18:58:32 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:58:32 GMT
Subject: MORE volunteers for voting project needed
Message-ID: <sAM9b.6217$BS5.4176@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

A couple of months ago, I posted a call for volunteers on C.L.PY for our
demo voting system development project (open source Python on SourceForge).
I am very pleased with the result so far.  We have some excellent developers
to go along with some top notch experts in voting technology we have on
board.

David Mertz has taken the Development Lead position.  We still have a need
for a few people to take charge of some sub-projects.  We had originally
targeted the demo completion around mid-Oct.  It looks like that will slip
some but I hope to keep it from slipping too much.  The need for better
voting technology is fairly urgent!

If you are interested, please have a look at what we are doing.  Mostly we
need Python developers but we also need someone skilled at project
management and that can do a PERT chart (or Gantt chart) -- this person does
not need to be a Python programmer.  Here are our pages on SourceForge:

http://evm2003.sourceforge.net
The Architecture document may be of particular interest.  You can take the
link on this page or go directly to
http://evm2003.sourceforge.net/architecture.html

Most of our interaction is taking place on our email list.  The archives are
here:

http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/

Here's our other SF page
http://sourceforge.net/projects/evm2003

More background information can be found here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/

Our crew is international!  Besides USA, we have programmers from India,
Italy, and Sweden.  Please get in touch with me if you are interested in
helping with this project.

-- Alan Dechert  916-791-0456
adechert at earthlink.net






From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 16 07:33:42 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:33:42 -0400
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com>

Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> 
> According to Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com>:
> > kasper graversen wrote:
> > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:36:44 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > > >> Erm, what's "MOP" mean?
> > > what has all this talk to do with documentation of the MOP???
> > Er, if you'll look back, you'll see that Anthony asked what MOP
> > meant
> 
> Meta Object Protocol.

Thanks, but one might say that this is what it spells, not what it _means_.

At this point, I'm sure google would help, if I felt a driving
need to go and learn what it really means.

-Peter



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 13:17:49 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:17:49 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com> <6qad8u1oiv.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <c7k3nvkqev12grqr9snrv90s9tojhbjrqu@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:14:48 +0200, Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de>
wrote:

>I think someone once suggested "and while" instead of a plain while:
>
>do:
>   ...
>and while condition:
>   ...
>
>This reads quite nicely IMO.

Hmmm.

It certainly has all the advantages I claimed for 'break if'. At the
moment my mental parser is choking on it - but I can't give a good
reason why. Probably it's just odd seeing 'and' at the start of a
line, I suspect.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From pbhowmick at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 16 15:13:57 2003
From: pbhowmick at sbcglobal.net (Partho Bhowmick)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:13:57 GMT
Subject: Missing python23_d.lib in Windows Python 2.3
Message-ID: <VhJ9b.38$rX6.3414074@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

I am building extension modules for Python 2.3 under Windows using MS Visual
Studio .Net 2003.
In the debug build, there is a pragma statement in <pyconfig.h> that causes
a link to the lib python23_d.lib
This library does not exist.
Am I missing something or is the installation missing something?





From bogus at invalid.tld  Fri Sep 19 13:36:35 2003
From: bogus at invalid.tld (Jules Dubois)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:36:35 -0600
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
References: <mailman.1063989509.22137.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1j8xu75qycwmf$.1e7h5ve1avjxu$.dlg@40tude.net>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:37:42 -0400, in article
<mailman.1063989509.22137.python-list at python.org>, Leeds, Mark wrote:

> I did more investigation into my previous problem
> and what happens is that my text file has \r for representing
> a new line instead
> of a \n. 

If you open a file in text mode, you're probably getting text as the
implementation library or operating system view it.

Under MS-DOS and derivative system (e.g., Windows), text files are stored
with CRLF as the line delimiter but are returned to the program without the
CR.  Under MacOS text files use CR as the delimiter, and under Unix, LF.

> is there a way to tell the readlines
> function that the symbol for a newline is \r rather
> than \n ?

I think this is proper behavior, and the problem lies in the combination of
file format and the operating system under which you're executing.  A
simple but inefficient solution is the write your own input function to
read the file one character at a time and handle characters like CR and LF
in a manner suitable to your requirements.



From jonah13579 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 12:08:02 2003
From: jonah13579 at hotmail.com (Jonah)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 09:08:02 -0700
Subject: Is there a web templating system like ruby's amrita ?
References: <6ee58e07.0309120421.622cb55@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9a5f3d1c.0309150808.62753710@posting.google.com>

llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<6ee58e07.0309120421.622cb55 at posting.google.com>...
> I there anything that completely avoid the use of python code inside 
> a template. I like the Amrita system because it allows me to design
> the templates with WYSIWYG editors and blind text.

I too, would appreciate any insight to this question.  I come from a
perl background, and now split my work about 50/50 between python and
perl.  The one area which I continue to use perl is for templating
purposes.  I think Template Toolkit is the best one out there
(especially for MVC purposes), and would love to use something
equivalent in python.  There had been talk of porting that module to
python (and even parrot), but AFAIK its still perl only.

Jonah



From rob at cs.brown.edu  Mon Sep 29 01:49:59 2003
From: rob at cs.brown.edu (Rob Hunter)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:49:59 -0400
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <vndo742ca2f10@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <C30548A9-F240-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>

How do I check if a value is a number in Python?

One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x == 
type(2387482734274)) and ...

but this seems kludgy.  Any better way?

Thanks,
Rob





From dokaspar at student.ethz.ch  Tue Sep 30 14:57:17 2003
From: dokaspar at student.ethz.ch (Dominik Kaspar)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 11:57:17 -0700
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
Message-ID: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com>

i'm used to java and its strict way of defining variables. so how is
it possible to reach something like a class variable in python?
with the following code i didn't have much succes...

class Server(threading.Thread):
    running = 0  (??)
        
    def run(self):
        running = 1
        while running:
            print "do something here..."

    def exit(self):
        running = 0

thanks
-- dominik



From msajec at ieee.org  Thu Sep 25 19:34:33 2003
From: msajec at ieee.org (Mike S.)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 16:34:33 -0700
Subject: Compiling informxidb-1.3 on python2.2?
References: <bc2ee265.0309221612.37ed0840@posting.google.com> <slrnbmvjva.t30.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <bc2ee265.0309231414.5689a323@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc2ee265.0309251534.ca2bfcc@posting.google.com>

Well I managed to get the configure script to run:

./configure
loading cache ./config.cache
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes
checking for python... (cached) /usr/bin/python
checking for --with-informix... /opt/informix
checking for esql... (cached) /opt/informix/bin/esql
checking for --enable-thread... no
checking for --enable-shared... yes
creating ./config.status
creating Makefile
creating ext/srcdir
creating ext/Setup
creating ext/Makefile

But got a ton of errors when trying step 5 in Robin's list:

>>esql _informixdb.c

_informixdb.ec:48:20: Python.h: No such file or directory
_informixdb.ec:49:24: longobject.h: No such file or directory
In file included from _informixdb.ec:50:
dbi.h:13: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:14: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:15: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:18: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:18: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:18: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
dbi.h:19: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:19: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:19: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
dbi.h:20: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:20: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:20: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
dbi.h:21: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:21: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:21: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
dbi.h:35: parse error before '*' token
dbi.h:35: warning: data definition has no type or storage class


Make sense to anyone??


msajec at ieee.org (Mike S.) wrote in message news:<bc2ee265.0309231414.5689a323 at posting.google.com>...
> > 2. Untar, run configure
> Unfortunately, the trouble starts here at step 2.  By any chance do
> you have both python1.5 and python2.2 installed?
> 
> root at pe informixdb-1.3]# ./configure
> loading cache ./config.cache
> checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes
> checking for python... (cached) /usr/bin/python
> checking for --with-informix... /opt/informix
> checking for esql... (cached) /opt/informix/bin/esql
> checking for --enable-thread... no
> checking for --enable-shared... yes
> creating ./config.status
> creating Makefile
> creating ext/srcdir
> creating ext/Setup
> cp: cannot stat `/usr/lib/python1.5/config/Makefile.pre.in': No such
> file or directory
> creating ext/Makefile
> make: ./Makefile.pre.in: No such file or directory
> make: *** No rule to make target `./Makefile.pre.in'.  Stop.
> [root at pe informixdb-1.3]#
> :
> 
> Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbmvjva.t30.rmunn at rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>...
> > Mike S. <msajec at ieee.org> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Has anyone had success compiling the informixdb-1.3 module under
> > > python 2.2?  It seems the absense of makefile.pre.in in python 2.2
> > > causes the break under py2.2. Is there an easy way around this.  I've
> > > heard rumors of a manual method, but have been unable to track down
> > > details.  Any help is very much appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Mike
> > 
> > Here's the step-by-step notes I wrote for myself when I had to do
> > exactly that back in May:
> > 
> > Steps in installing the informixdb module:
> > 
> > 1. Download informixdb source from
> >    http://starship.python.net/crew/sturner/informixdb.html
> > 2. Untar, run configure
> > 3. Edit ext/Makefile: change CFLAGS (line 100) to include
> >    -I${INFORMIXDIR}/incl/esql
> > 4. Cd into ext directory
> > 5. Run "esql _informix.ec" to generate _informix.c file
> > 6. Cd back into parent directory
> > 7. Run make
> > 8. Copy informixdb.py and ext/_informixdb.so into
> >    /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/
> > 
> > I hope this helps. I did this install on a Red Hat machine that had the
> > Informix SDK installed, so I had the esql command available. If you
> > don't have esql available, then I'm not sure what you'll need to do.
> > 
> > Good luck!



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 22 21:49:36 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:49:36 GMT
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com> <slrnbmrgau.438.chasm@galileo.rift> <fEJbb.61$eB.37@twister.southeast.rr.com> <slrnbmv319.9d2.chasm@galileo.rift>
Message-ID: <QENbb.9139$Af4.2679@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Julian Tibble" <chasm at rift.sytes.net> wrote in message news:slrnbmv319.9d2.chasm at galileo.rift...
> In article <fEJbb.61$eB.37 at twister.southeast.rr.com>, M-a-S wrote:
> > No difference on my computer (see my note at the end):
>
> <snip>
>
> > s *= 1 <--------------------------------- maybe this is your difference!
>
> oh dear :(
> damn typos

That's why I had in my code this:

assert f_rec == f_iter == f_xter == f_nter == f_rdc

for all the factorial values :)
And I like the Python's way of expressing multiple relations!

M-a-S





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 20:03:10 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:03:10 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com> <3F5F83B1.48763F85@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <cg5vlvgorsi88elsn9ur5ueavpg27d7ui3@4ax.com>

I get to the reason I'm rapidly changing my mind on this idea at the
end of this post, so you may want to read the last few paragraphs
first, but...


On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:04:01 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> Its not an issue of whether the same effect can be achieved in Python.
>> It's more an issue of whether the method used expresses the
>> programmers intentions properly.
>
>I agree.  And with your suggestion, now every single function call can
>potentially change meaning.  Given Python's dynamicism, you may not even
>know if this particular function call exhibits the behavior.  Now
>Python's nice, predictable behavior is up for grabs.

I don't agree with this.

If the caller has to specify the behaviour in the syntax they use for
the call AS WELL AS the definition (in both cases using the 'ref'
modifiers) then the call mechanism is 100% explicit and predictable.
If, given Pythons dynamism, you have an function object of the wrong
type (and therefore one which does not support the call mechanism you
are trying to use) then it will fail - just as attempting to do a
conventional function call on a non-function will fail. 

That is, suppose I define a function...

  def Call_This (p_Function) :
    x = 1
    p_Function (ref x)

This function doesn't know what type of object it will be called with
- it *should* be a function with a reference argument but it might be
a conventional function, it might be a function with the wrong number
of arguments, or it might not be a function at all.

But it doesn't really matter because I have explicitly specified how I
want to call that object - if the object doesn't support that call
mechanism it simply fails.

So if i write...

  def Example_Fn_1 (p) :
    None

  Call_This (Example_Fn_1)

then an exception will be raised because I provided the wrong type of
function as a parameter. But this is not really any different to what
we should already expect if I write...

  Call_This ("oops, this isn't a function")

>If you want to rebinding outside the function, a far better way of
>"expressing the programmer's intentions properly," in my opinion, is to
>make the behavior as explicit as possible:
>
>	class Container:
>	    def __init__(self, x=None): self.x = x
>	    def get(self): return self.x
>	    def set(self, x): self.x = x
>	    def increment(self): self.x += 1 # for example
>
>	def Inc(c):
>	    container.increment()
>
>	container = Container(1)
>	Inc(container)
>	print container.get()

Of course this handles the increment example and it handles most cases
quite well, but there are many cases where this is inappropriate.
Putting an object into a mutable wrapper *purely* as a way to allow a
function to rebind the object it needs to rebind is a bad idea - it
means creating extra housekeeping code that (1) obscures the real
application logic, and (2) creates extra opportunities for bugs.

But of course my putting it that way is bogus - in reality, most data
would be in mutable objects (class instances) anyway in real world
programs, and the use of return values (including returning a tuple)
can handle returning any number of output values.

In other words, the following *is* bad...

  variable = Wrapper (variable)
  Call_Function (variable)
  variable = Wrapper.Unwrap ()

But realistically, that wouldn't happen. Rather, you'd have...

  variable = Call_Function (variable)

And so we get back to Peter Ottens point - Python doesn't need
call-by-reference (or rather call-by-reference-to-reference) because
it has another way of providing output values - and significantly, one
which allows multiple values to be conveniently returned.

As a fan of many functional techniques and as someone who
instinctively distrusts side-effects, I actually like this. But a
little voice keeps whispering to me "yes, but not always".

Part of it is of course that I still feel it is a wart that, when
passing a mutable object as a parameter, I can rebind any internal
component of that object and it will be visible to the caller - but if
I rebind the object as a whole the change doesn't affect the caller.
Of course we've been through this before, though, and I doubt you want
to revisit the arguments any more than I do.

The most compelling example I have is essentially the side-effect
thing from my reply to Peter Ottens post. As an attempt to express it
more clearly, there are times when you set up an object purely so that
you can store it into a container...

  obj = Obj_Type ()

  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()

  container.Add (obj)

In many cases, the Add function will not take a copy because it seems
pointless. The caller set up the object purely to store it in the
container, and in most cases is going to discard its reference to the
object immediately afterwards. But then there's always the possibility
that the caller might carry on using that object. For instance...

  obj = Obj_Type ()

  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()

  container.Add (obj)

  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()

  container.Add (obj)

This probably wouldn't do what was expected - the 'slightly
differently' call changed an object that is also being referenced from
inside the container - an accidental side-effect.

If a 'ref' parameter is used and the 'Add' function rebinds it to
'None', however, we get...

  obj = Obj_Type ()

  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()

  container.Add (ref obj)

  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()
    #  exception here tells that something has gone wrong

  container.Add (ref obj)

Which quickly gets bugfixed to...

  obj = Obj_Type ()

  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()

  container.Add_Copy (obj)

  obj.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()
    #  no exception as Add_Copy doesn't rebind the parameter

  container.Add (ref obj)


Then again, even in this case there are other ways. For instance...

  builder = Builder ()

  builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_1 ()
  builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_2 ()
  builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_3 ()

  container.Add (builder.Build ())

  builder.Do_Setup_Stuff_3_Slightly_Differently ()

  container.Add (builder.Build ())

In this case, the builder class can set a 'used' flag after the
'Build' call which tells it that it needs to make a copy before
applying further changes. In that way, both unnecessary copies and
accidental side-effects are avoided while keeping the intention clear
(especially as this is basically one of the classic design patterns
from Gamma et al - though I may be confusing Builder with Factory
Method) and with no changes to Python.

So my 'most compelling example' isn't compelling at all. Damn.

I've been thinking on this for some hours now and still not come up
with a more compelling example (or at least not one which can't be
better handled a different way) so I guess the idea is a dud.

Bet you never expected me to admit that so easy ;-)




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Sep  3 16:07:11 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:07:11 GMT
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
References: <mailman.1062538564.1958.python-list@python.org> <bj4crt$1uq$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <PRr5b.22979$NC2.17137@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

> > Looks like a bug to me too. Stefan, please raise a bug report on Sourceforge
(or it will get lost). Preferably add a patch and test suite ;)
>
> Thanks, will do this evening.

No need for a patch or test suite.
Just assign the bug to me.  I'm
already working on the solution.


Raymond Hettinger





From danielk at aracnet.com  Mon Sep 15 10:28:31 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:28:31 -0700
Subject: Loading modules at startup in IDLE
Message-ID: <fvibmv87kt3coi2utikqh9t04ap7nvp1e3@4ax.com>

Does anyone know a way to automatically load modules in IDLE at
startup?

I can set %PYTHONSTARTUP% but this only works for the interactive
prompt, not in IDLE. I tried doing the same thing with %IDLESTARTUP%
but received no joy.

What am I missing? Or has this capability been removed on 2.3?

Thanks,
Daniel Klein



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 01:13:47 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:13:47 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <Nc2dnbMyZd7uZ-2iU-KYhw@comcast.com> <6f52nvsobkkf2n3p6stum3ipd5cp96i3pv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pt92nv0hntk5oll604gokgmptldeq9vf8t@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:07:21 +0100, Stephen Horne
<$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>The whole point of the syntax in the PEP is to have the loop condition
>tested in the middle of the loop - something which in C (and current
>Python) is handled badly by the unstructured 'break'.

Ooops - that 'badly' was meant to be in quotes as I don't really think
it's that bad.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Tue Sep 30 01:47:13 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:47:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f7918e1-cebe25d5-ba02-4762-ae3e-ad3bb70874cb@news.szn.dk>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

> So I only expect around 5,428,681 primes less than 10^8 to occur.
> Well, that's not SO much less than 7.8M.

I found 5,761,455 primes < 1E8.


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  2 17:52:05 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 14:52:05 -0700
Subject: Python REST framework?
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0309021352.1da1ecd9@posting.google.com>

> [Jeremy Jones]
> Does anyone know if there exists a Python REST (web services) framework?
> I've googled and come up short.  I don't think it should be that hard to 
> do ...

I'm interested.  But I have been looking at the discussion on the rest
mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rest-discuss/ and it
seems they haven't found a solution for the user:password thing yet. 
Using SSL is a must, but then what?  Create some unguessable URI? 
That is not safe enough for banking applications etc.  And using
lowlevel http stuff is also being frowned upon.

Consider creating a multiuser web-based game in a RESTful way, where
players can use a password to get access to their avatar.  I haven't
figured out yet how to do such a thing according to REST, using Python
Standard Library modules.


-- 
Real programmers can write assembly code in any language.
                -- Larry Wall



From mwh at python.net  Tue Sep  2 07:34:11 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:34:11 GMT
Subject: printer friendly python tutorial
References: <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53> <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53> <YTb4b.235097$It4.112333@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20030901234513.02e92120@66.28.54.253> <mailman.1062488944.11530.python-list@python.org> <1062496037.923678@dmz2.imec.be>
Message-ID: <7h3znhnh1g8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"K.C. Shashidhar" <kodambal at imec.be> writes:

> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> > http://www.python.org => Documentation => Download
> > Current Documentation (first link on page) =>
> >     http://www.python.org/doc/current/download.html
> > where the table on the top of the page contains download
> > links for HTML, PDF, Postscript, GNU info, iSilo, and LaTeX
> > versions of the docs, in ZIP, GZip, and BZip2 archives.
> 
> I wonder why someone wanting to print only the tutorial has to
> download the whole archive and unzip. Wouldn't it be helpful to keep
> them separately available, like the HTML versions are?

Finite time and resources.  Doesn't look like the zipped HTML is
available separately, FWIW.  You could suggest this to docs at python.org
if you feel strongly, I guess.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  This is the fixed point problem again; since all some implementors
  do is implement the compiler and libraries for compiler writing, the
  language becomes good at writing compilers and not much else!
                                 -- Brian Rogoff, comp.lang.functional



From lonnies at tgf.tc.faa.gov  Mon Sep 22 13:39:36 2003
From: lonnies at tgf.tc.faa.gov (Lonnie, SRC employee)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:39:36 -0400
Subject: <?standalone yes?>
Message-ID: <3f6f32b9@post.newsfeed.com>

*** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***

I can figure out how to set the standalone attribute in the <? xml
version="1.0 ?> tag eg <?xml version="1.0" standalone="yes" ?>

closest I have got to what I need is:
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<?standalone yes?>
<xpg creator="crusher" version="1.0">
  <etr>
    <rebmun>

using minidom in this code(snippet):
  xmldoc = Document()
  pi = xmldoc.createProcessingInstruction("standalone","yes")
  xmldoc.appendChild(pi)
  xmlroot = xmldoc.createElement("xpg")
  xmlroot.setAttribute("version","1.0")
  xmlroot.setAttribute("creator","crusher")
  xmldoc.appendChild(xmlroot)

thx
Lonnie Souder



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From rasmus.klump at myorange.dk  Mon Sep 29 08:51:59 2003
From: rasmus.klump at myorange.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:51:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP-0263 and default encoding
Message-ID: <3f782aef-bdbbd6f1-a72a-4a6c-8b23-c4915b89a61f@news.szn.dk>

Hi,

After upgrading my Python interpreter to 2.3.1 I constantly get
warnings like this:

  DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xe6' in file
  mumble.py on line 2, but no encoding declared;
  see http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html for details

And while I understand the problem, I cannot fathom why Python
doesn't simply rely on the encoding I have specified in site.py,
which then calls sys.setdefaultencoding().

Would anyone care to explain why the community has chosen to
inconvenience the user for each python script with non-ASCII
characters, rather than using the default encoding given in the
site.py configuration file?

Cheers,

  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	o mordo tua nuora, o aro un autodromo



From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep  9 11:26:46 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:26:46 -0300
Subject: Request for comments on modular application design and security.
Message-ID: <m3r82qj83t.fsf@ieee.org>

Hello.


I'm somewhat new to Python and I'm working on a modular application
that needs to access a database. Let me describe what I've done so far
and what I'm thinking about before asking something.

We have a login program that authenticates the user against passwords
available in the database and it opens a connection with priviledges
only to read the user's table. If the access is granted than we
os.execv() a second module that contains a menu list of modules of the
system that are available for them. This will be used as the 'main
menu'. If a button is clicked, the final program is called with all of
its options. The problem is how to pass the information that the user
was successfully authenticated and that connections should be opened
with its username and password on the database. 

How can I pass this information from one proccess to another without
compromising security and in a way that's available in both Linux and
Windows? (They have half of the machines running each OS and are
migrating to Linux.)


Also, I'd appreciate comments on my approach. The program is going to
be huge in size and with several screens. I've adopted separate
modules to allow me to have it installed one piece a time and have it
working nicely on old machines (mainly P-233 or a maximum of P-300
with 64/128 MB of RAM). 



TIA,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 13:52:36 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:52:36 +0200
Subject: Forcing getopt to process a specific option first??
References: <bkcnkd$8ml6$1@ID-122008.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bkcrei$hfd$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Dan Rawson wrote:

> Is there any way to force getopt to process one option first??  I'd like
> to be able to pass in the name of a configuration file for my application,
> then have the remaining command-line parameters over-ride the
> configuration file if they are present.

The easiest solution would be to make the config file the mandatory first
argument of the command line and then call

getopt.getopt(sys.argv[2:], options)

Below is another approach, that might fit your needs:

import getopt

#sample args
args = ["-c", "config.txt", "-r", "-i", "specialin.txt"]

options, args = getopt.getopt(args, "c:ri:o:")
useroptions = dict(options)

if "-c" in useroptions:

    #set defaults
    defaultoptions = {"-i": "defaultin.txt", "-o": "defaultout.txt"}

    del useroptions["-c"]

    #override defaults
    defaultoptions.update(useroptions)
    options = defaultoptions.items()

print options

Peter



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Sep  5 05:03:32 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:03:32 -0000
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <vlgkb4dtchna9e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911 at news.teranews.com>,
Chris  <rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I am developing a software project where a major portion of it is to 
>enable script access to c++ classes  
>
>The idea is to extend the basic functionality of the program by allowing 
>third parties to write add ons that are called by my c++ classes as 
>virtual functions.
			.
			.
			.
>Given the above which interpreter is most likely to fit my bill with the 
>smallest footprint ?
			.
			.
			.
Let's be clear on what we're discussing.  When you write,
"smallest footprint", do you seriously mean, "creates the
smallest differential in the size of the resulting exe-
cutable image"?  Frankly, that would surprise me; your
project sounded interesting and useful up until those 
last two words.  I don't mean to be harsh; unless there's
something you're not telling us, though, the size of 
executables-as-file-images is quite unlikely to be even
the tenth most important aspect of your target.

I'll anticipate a bit more, and observe that Python is
likely to be the better choice, because it remains easier
for a newcomer to extend-or-embed (it's not clear that
you've decided between these alternatives), at least until
Perl 6 meets all its goals.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From link0937 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 05:32:07 2003
From: link0937 at hotmail.com (Link)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:32:07 +0800
Subject: Anyone who good at PYTHON in Taiwan?
Message-ID: <bkp431$jji$1@news.seed.net.tw>

Any instruments in Taiwan to help me for my questions answer?

Of course, should pay for you if necessary.
Please contract me by mail in the Taiwan daytime.

Looking forward to your reply.

Link







From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 16 15:44:20 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:44:20 -0400
Subject: why pass statement?
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <vmeq2go7e7fq62@news.supernews.com>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iRI9b.12996$x21.4462 at twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Why is there the pass statement? I think, the expression statement would
be enough:
>
> class C:
>     None
>
> while True:
>     None

You don't actally need Pass. A docstring is sufficient:

class C:
    "this is a class"

while True:
    "loop de loop de loop"

John Roth
>
>
>
>
>
>





From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Sep 26 09:10:01 2003
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:10:01 +0100
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com> <4bh3nv0esljf8pkegog0lc4lmg87siv1oc@4ax.com> <CxWcb.172171$R32.5498673@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bl1dra$j30@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:CxWcb.172171$R32.5498673 at news2.tin.it...

> I'm not sure how you'd compute log on integer numbers.  Anyway,
> if you're in a hurry to know the number of digits in 2**64 -- I
> see math.log(x,10) taking about 4 usec per loop, len(str(x)) about
> 6.3, in each case with x=2*64 and measuring with timeit.py
> (elapsed time, as I'm measuring on Linux).

And if you're really in a hurry 64 * log10(2) is good too ;)





From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Tue Sep 30 06:04:11 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:04:11 +1200
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1303744F86@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2977@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

[me]
> > """
> > def isInt(s):
> >     try:
> >         i = int(s)
> >     except ValueError:
> >         i = None
> >     return i
> > def isFloat(s):
> >     try:
> >         i = float(s)
> >     except ValueError:
> >         i = None
> >     return i
> > def isNumber(s):
> >     return isInt(s) or isFloat(s)
> > """
[Peter Otten]
> Made-up use-case:
> 
> s = "123"
> value = isNumber(s)
> if value is not None:
>     value *= 2
> else:
>     raise ValueError, "%s is not a number" % s

I would think that:
"""
s = "123"
value = isNumber(s)
if value is None:
    # do something that shows it's not a number.
    # (obviously not raise a ValueError, because
    # then there's no point using the function at
    # all)
# continue program, with value in value, if needed.
"""
Would be a more logical way to do it.

> To me this looks like a deliberate attempt to obfuscate. 

It's not.  It was an example case showing that there isn't any need to
bother with regexs and the like if you don't want to - Python will do the
work for you.  Assuming you trust the Python developers, you can trust that
it will correctly check that the value is convertible into a number, and
don't need to worry that you missed something in the regex (or whatever).

> Nobody would guess that you have to test the result of 
> isNumber() against None

A real function would have a docstring...this is only c.l.p...

> and cannot reliably treat it as a boolean value.

If returning a boolean value was a criteria, then you just replace "return
i" with "return True" or "return False".

> You should at least change the function name 
> to something like stringToNumber().

The OP asked for a function called isNumber.  I posted an example of one.

> The program flow is redundant: 
> - convert to number 
> - "convert" exception into special return value
> - check for special return value
> - throw exception

The program snippet doesn't throw an exception at the end; your example
usage did.  If the code was going to raise a ValueError if it couldn't be
converted, then it would be written differently; the OP didn't say that that
was the case.  The program flow is really:
 - convert to number and return
 - if an exception was raised then return None, signifying that no number
can be created

Lots of the stuff written about Python talks about using exceptions for code
control, as this does.  This isn't C++.

> I can think of very few situations where None could actually 
> be *used* instead of a numerical value.

Why would you want to *use* None?  It's simply the function signifying that
it couldn't convert the number.

> > Note that "0" will come back as 0.0, though, because it 
> > evaluates as False. It would be easy enough to special case that, if
necessary.
> 
> This is a bug that demonstrates that your isInt()/isFloat() 
> implementation is not even well suited to implement isNumber().

Rubbish.  This is me not taking care of every little detail in example code,
for the sake of brevity, but warning that that is the case.  In any case, it
still correctly determines if the object can be converted to a number, and
still correctly returns the number it is converted to.  The only thing that
is possibly incorrect is that it's a float instead of an int.  As I said,
easily fixed.

You seem to have missed the whole point of the code snippet.  The idea is
that you can use the conversion built into Python to check if a number can
be converted, without having to write code that checks yourself.  Perhaps
you would like this more?

"""
def isNumber(s):
    for f in [int, float,]:
        try:
            return f(s)
        except ValueError:
            pass
    raise ValueError("Cannot convert to a number")
"""

To me this doesn't seem as clear in explaining the concept, although it's
more like code I would actually use.  This does return "0" as 0, and raises
a ValueError is no conversion is possible.  The point is that the concept,
which is what I was trying to convey, is the same.  If you really don't want
the value returned, then you could just use:

"""
def isNumber(s):
    for f in [int, float,]:
        try:
            f(s)
        except ValueError:
            continue
        return True
    return False
"""

Probably not the fastest way to do it, but certainly simple.  (Although not
as simple as the hasattr(__int__) solution, which is very nice :)

=Tony Meyer





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 08:53:22 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:53:22 GMT
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6FWcb.125171$hE5.4261048@news1.tin.it>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Anthony Baxter wrote:
>> 
>> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
>> happy to announce the release of Python 2.3.1 (final).
> 
> The highlights mention the existence of a new API
> PyThreadState_SetAsyncEnc, which is "deliberately accessible only from C",
> that can interrupt a thread by sending it an exception.
> 
> I can't find an online discussion of this, so I'm asking here.  Why was
> this
> made accessible only from C?  Is it dangerous?  Experimental?  Someone
> feels it will be used inappropriately if too readily available at the
> Python level?

As covered in previous discussion, basically the latest reason.


> Presumably somebody will come up with a little extension module or other
> technique for calling this which will let anyone use it at will, so I'm
> unclear on why it should be made inaccessible from Python.

Having to use a third-party extension module, or other kludge, will make
people more aware than this functionality is most likely NOT intended nor
appropriate for the use they have in mind (that's going to be the case
well over 90% of the time, IMNSHO based on teaching, consulting and
debugging lots and LOTS of horrid, inappropriate threading architectures
over the years).  I just wish that most of the threading-synchronization
constructs currently available in Python, and module thread first and
foremost, were just as "arm's length away", leaving module threading and
module Queue as "the only obvious way to do it" for 90%+ of people's
actual threading needs... a sufficiently selfish and short-sighted
consultant might think that would reduce their volume of business, but
IMHO -- by removing most of the threading-related issues of most Python
programs -- it would just make everybody's life a little bit better;-).


Alex




From hutsonken at ev1.net  Mon Sep 22 21:51:40 2003
From: hutsonken at ev1.net (Kenneth Hutson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:51:40 -0500
Subject: How do you sort a name list and list in random order?
References: <mailman.1061730708.21315.python-list@python.org> <bknkiq$3o6va$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vmv96kojhfvr9c@corp.supernews.com>

What about shuffle()?

"Tobias Pfeiffer" <BoteDesSchattens at web.de> wrote in message
news:bknkiq$3o6va$1 at ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hi!
>
> Frank & Janny Plaza <plaza247 at sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:mailman.1061730708.21315.python-list at python.org:
>
> > I am trying to write a program in which the users will each enter
> > their names and when all names have been entered, I want to randomly
> > sort
>
> "randomly sort"??????? I mean, for me "randomly" means somewhat of the
> opposite of "sorted"...
>
> Bye
> Tobias





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 03:45:34 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:45:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP-0263 and default encoding
References: <3f782aef-bdbbd6f1-a72a-4a6c-8b23-c4915b89a61f@news.szn.dk> <blaau5$b0r$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr> <vnhh7etad1t566@news.supernews.com> <3f79171c-d4c587aa-d4ac-44b9-97da-5e0024d4d268@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <Xns940657C0182C7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Klaus Alexander Seistrup <spam at magnetic-ink.dk> wrote in news:3f79171c-
d4c587aa-d4ac-44b9-97da-5e0024d4d268 at news.szn.dk:
> 
> Still beats me why it doesn't use the sys.getdefaultencoding() instead
> of inconveniencing me.
> 

I think the reasoning was that you might give your scripts to someone else 
who has a different default encoding and it would then fail obscurely. A 
script should be portable, and that means it can't depend on things like 
the default encoding.

i.e. Its an attempt to satisfy both of these:
  Explicit is better than implicit.
  Errors should never pass silently.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 27 04:25:10 2003
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 01:25:10 -0700
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com> <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu> <mailman.1064330017.10730.python-list@python.org> <u941nvg94ae04ajndvbjs2hlqc9l5lemqh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0309270025.3c4d79ed@posting.google.com>

Tim Rowe <tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk> wrote in message news:<u941nvg94ae04ajndvbjs2hlqc9l5lemqh at 4ax.com>...
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:10:49 -0400, Shu-Hsien Sheu <sheu at bu.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> >In my understanding, using try/except rather than if/else is more 
> >pythonic. 
> 
> Rule of thumb: when the block of code is still doing what it's
> supposed to do, use if/else. If it's failing to do what it's supposed
> to do, use try/except. "except" should be an /exception/!
.....
> So try/except /only/ when something has gone wrong and you need to go
> into some sort of recovery or termination, /not/ for routine tests.

You have a valid point of view, which nonetheless is not shared by
everyone. This is a recurring subject in the newsgroup.

Python exceptions have been used for other purposes, as can be seen
from Python FAQ (e.g. "4.22 Why is there no goto?" in
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html)

The "for" loop in Python is also implemented internally with
exceptions. E.g.: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1010884758.23378.python-list%40python.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain,
where it mentioned:

"... In some other languages, 'non failure' mode exceptions may be
unusual, but it's the normal idiom in Python."

regards,

Hung Jung



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 26 11:22:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:22:10 -0500
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
In-Reply-To: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <16244.22946.446379.622160@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    David> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I
    David> am disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where
    David> are they?

Dave,

Try the left margin of the /dev/ page.  If you find stuff in PEPs you
believe belongs in the standard documentation set, please file a
documentation bug report.  While PEPs do contain a lot of valuable
information, I don't think that using them for end-user documentation was a
goal.

Skip





From BoteDesSchattens at web.de  Tue Sep 16 10:40:47 2003
From: BoteDesSchattens at web.de (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 14:40:47 GMT
Subject: Print always puts newline (or adds a space)
References: <3d9e1e6e689e3a662f59990c4b401713@news.teranews.com> <3F64DEF7.F98CFAB8@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bk77de$pt7i4$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in news:3F64DEF7.F98CFAB8
@alcyone.com:

>> Is there a "lower level" way to output
>> chars other than 'print'?
> 
> Yep, call sys.stdout.write directly.

Is it then also possible to "jump back" a few chars to, e.g., have a 
progress... (damn, I forgot that word) however, that shows the percentage 
of progress? Like print "25%" and then jump back three chars and write 
"26%"?
And then, on my Linux machine, such things just don't happen at all. E.g. 
in a loop like...

for i in range(1000):
    	j = pow(2,i)
    	if j%100: print "#",

...I will get nothing for a long time and then ten "#" chars at one time. 
Is there a solution for that?

Bye
Tobias



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  8 02:40:17 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:40:17 +0200
Subject: python module for MS SQL Server 7 or 2000?
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0309071817.503e244d@posting.google.com>
References: <c718a6cf.0309071116.6f080c95@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1062962816.30157.python-list@python.org>
	<c718a6cf.0309071817.503e244d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5C2451.4080308@ghaering.de>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062962816.30157.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
>>
>>>I have searched and only found references to using ODBC or some
>>>ancient posts about some ancient sybase library under linux, neither
>>>of which meets my critiera. [...]
>>
>>Tried Google? Doesn't look like so:
>>
>>http://www.google.com/search?q=python%20ms%20sql%20server
> 
> yes and nothing meets my criteria. I need something that is stable and
> cross platform without any dependancies on any other libraries or
> depenacny on linux

Huh? The first hit can be built against the FreeTDS library, and you can 
have commercial support for it. Your point "no dependency on any other 
libraries" is just not practical for a database adapter, because then 
the database adapter would have to implement the database's wire 
protocol in pure Python. Well, it's possible, but it's not been done yet 
, at least for MS SQL. Oh, and this other DB-API module that 
communicates to MS SQL server using its XML protocol, that would meet 
*this* requirement. Dunno how stable it is, though.

-- Gerhard




From nospam at here.com  Wed Sep 10 14:25:29 2003
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:25:29 +0100
Subject: Image on disabled button
References: <1062436629.69505.0@dyke.uk.clara.net> <cpm7b.930437$3C2.21206984@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <1063135933.53254.0@doris.uk.clara.net> <7e337cbf.0309092318.3019e1cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1063218108.5220.0@doris.uk.clara.net>

>
> I have now checked again on HP-UX and have found that you must also set:
>
> self.root.option_add('*disabledForeground', '')
>
> to stop the bug appearing...

It also works on Windows 2000.






From gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net  Tue Sep 30 16:23:59 2003
From: gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net (G.A.)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:23:59 GMT
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <3F6F86A2.DC29472A@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix> <3F704A91.FA7D31F7@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695@riquito.matrix>
Message-ID: <k5pjnvs6asl5407prag8e143hq2c7ferm3@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:02:37 +0200, Riccardo Attilio Galli
<riquito at riquito.matrix> wrote:

>english). An user should never enter the password again. I know how hashes
>work, and they're useful when I can compare an entered password with an
>hash value, but here I need that the user don't enter a password anymore
>(after the first time).

Better late than never:  The only way to do this securely is to rely on the
operating system's security, and even that isn't always possible.  I think
the NT/W2K model allows for encryption based on keys that only the specific
user can use (i.e. you have to actually be logged in as that user; I'm not
sure if the adminstrator can fake it).  This won't work on 9X.  On UNIX, a
close approximation is to just store the password in a file to which only
the user has read access, but obviously root will still have access.

Note that if the application supports multiple mail accounts for a single
user (as many do), then it becomes useful to have a single password for the
application, used to encrypt the various passwords for the different mail
accounts.

Gary



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep  8 13:23:44 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:23:44 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <vlpeq9jko1l6b0@news.supernews.com>

"Harri Pesonen" <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message
news:TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410 at reader1.news.jippii.net...
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
> > In article <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874 at reader1.news.jippii.net>, Harri Pesonen
wrote:
> >
> >>I agree, it's not logical. I'm learning Python at the moment, and like
> >>it very much. This "self" thing seems to be the only odd feature,
> >
> > It seemed quite natural to me, but perhaps that's because I'd
> > used other languages that worked the same way.  Coming from
> > Modula-3 and Smalltalk, the way classes worked in Python seemed
> > quite intuitive.
> >
> > OTOH, C++ seems like a real non-intuitive mess to me.
> >
> >>it feels like the whole class feature was added later.
> >
> > Why?
>
> Because everything else in Python seems to be very compact, there are no
> variable type declarations, or variable declarations, or anything else
> unnecessary that can be omitted. I would like to have self omitted, it
> would make the class syntax more beautiful and compact. On the other
> hand, I would like to have real private methods.
>
> Also I think that the class members should be explicitly declared. In
> general, it would be nice to have an option (like Option Explicit in
> Visual Basic) so that you can't assign to variables that have not been
> declared. It would probably make Python less error prone.

I believe that is what __slots__ is for. That's run time rather than
compile time, but at least it gives you the error on the statement
that attempts to do an invalid assignment.

> Also if
> variable declarations could have the type, again some errors could be
> detected at compile time.

It's quite possible to add run time type checking to Python, at a
significant cost in performance. See the descriptors material.

There's been quite a bit of work on a compile time type checking
system over the years, but it has never resulted in a proposal that could
be agreed on.

My own personal opinion is that I like the type check system in
the ML family of languages: it stays out of your way unless you need it.
How that would fit in Python is another question, though.
At this time, it looks like an issue for Python 3.0, which seems to
keep receeding into the distance.

John Roth

> I have not written any real Python applications yet, so I'm not expert,
> these are just my thoughts at this point.
>
> Harri
>





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Wed Sep  3 13:00:12 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:00:12 -0700
Subject: what is the easiest way to parse a file
References: <H_b5b.23$1o4.1177@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <bj56n1$fctrl$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

tagarwal wrote:

> Is there a library in python which could be used for parsing file
> based upon various sections

Do you have a grammar for the input files?  Is so, look at the
parser generators for Python, for example Plex, PLY, and others.

You might find some help in "Python 201 -- (Slightly) Advanced
Python Topics", Section 5, "Parsing", which is at:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_201/python_201.html

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 16 15:26:01 2003
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:26:01 +0100
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com> <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com>
 <brtl7s6v.fsf@yahoo.co.uk> <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <oexklely.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> I sent my own version without having seen your own --and mine might seem
> obfuscated, compared to yours.  Only a minor suggestion: don't use
> dt.replace, use dt.__class__ instead, since you wouldn't want your
> function to have side-effects (that is, don't destroy the actual object
> that dt is bound to.)

dt.replace doesn't have side effects - it creates a new object. Also,
by using replace(), my version works with date, datetime, or
subclasses. Yours does too, but it sets the time component of a
datetime to zero. It's a matter of preference which behaviour is
"better", I guess.

Paul.
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 30 10:59:37 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:59:37 -0400
Subject: intercepting smtp email
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <vnj6j3dv1di62b@news.supernews.com>

".r!kard" <rnia at algonet.se> wrote in message
news:blc1kt$ooe$1 at green.tninet.se...
> I'm no star at this but maybe you can check the code in
>   http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
>
> .r!kard

I think he's asking for a mini-firewall. In other words, is something
he doesn't know about sending messages on port 25?

John Roth

>
> "Scott Hathaway" <scott at hcsprogramming.com> wrote in message
> news:c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2 at posting.google.com...
> > I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
> > traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can do
> > something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
> > outgoing traffic, specifically.
> >
> > Any help is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott
>
>





From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 15:46:09 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:46:09 GMT
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <3f675ecd$0$97184$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <5MJ9b.13244$x21.9088@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message news:3f675ecd$0$97184$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk...
>
> Yes. You assign new values to the objects None, False and True. You then
> print out those values in a tuple.
>
> What's not to understand?
>
> But for others reading your programme you might be better of to keep
> them their normal values.

Which are ...?

I mean what are None, False and True? Are they just identifiers? Are they
variables defined in __builtins__? Are they literals? Are they language "bricks"
like "for" and "1"?





From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 04:07:10 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:07:10 +0200
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj9g8h$7ld$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:<elC5b.11632$hE5.410636 at news1.tin.it>...
> > Even ignoring safari's many other advantages
>
> Safari is definitely a useful service (I am a subscriber) but
> 1. its range of titles is quite limited (only best-sellers)

It is *very* limited; though I think all or O'Reilly's books are in it (and
MicrosoftPress and SAMS) there is little more; they advertise Addison
Wesley, but there is only a fraction of their books.

> 2. the time lag between release as hardcopy vs. on Safari can be really
long

3. It *is* expensive in the long run, except you have a *very* broad
interest in multiple aspects of computer science.


Kindly
Michael P
(also a subscriber)






From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Mon Sep 15 02:44:56 2003
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 14 Sep 2003 23:44:56 -0700
Subject: better use of os.system()
References: <c4e6b17d.0309140835.3408fc52@posting.google.com> <181d118be52ffabbbeaa120340c3f759@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0309142244.6232a8ac@posting.google.com>

Fooman <fee at fee.com> wrote in message news:<181d118be52ffabbbeaa120340c3f759 at news.teranews.com>...
> > lower: not found
> > 
> > I want it to run "lower" just like it would if I typed "lower" at the
> > bash prompt.  How can I do that?
> 
> The problem is that the 'lower' script is not in the path that
> the python interpreter knows about.  You can do:
> 
> 	os.system("/my/nonstandard/pathto/lower")
> 
> or, if you are using Linux, or similar, you can try
> making sure that your $PATH variable is getting set to
> include the path to your script in the environment that
> the python interpreter gets launched in.
> 
> So, what platform are you running under, and what is the
> path to your 'lower' script, and what are the contents
> of your $PATH variable?
> 
> Tobiah

You can use the standard windows Python distribution with 
a little trick. First of all make sure you can start 'lower'
from a dos console.
To do that, you need a little helper cygwin shell script:

- start cygwin

- cd /bin

- create a cmd2bash script with the following content:

  #! /bin/bash
  $*

- chmod +x cmd2bash    (make it executable)

Then start a console and try out following command:

C:\>c:\cygwin\bin\bash c:\cygwin\bin\cmd2bash "ls -la"

Do you see the content of drive C:\ in posix style? 
You may need to adjust the path to cygwin.

If you have name with spaces (barf) you may need single quotes:
C:\Programme>c:\cygwin\bin\bash c:\cygwin\bin\cmd2bash "ls  'Outlook Express'"

Then try to start your lower script with:
os.system('''c:\cygwin\bin\bash c:\cygwin\bin\cmd2bash "lower"''')

btw: this trick works for msys too

Regards 

Carl



From http  Thu Sep  4 14:54:21 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 11:54:21 -0700
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <7xn0dkxu3m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> writes:
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and
> am trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come
> across anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I
> would like to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have
> read in the last few years, about Python or IT in general.

Security Engineering, by Ross Anderson



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Sep  5 20:21:15 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:21:15 +0200
Subject: Coding Style:  Defining Functions within Methods?
References: <70df36e9.0309050837.1660cdf4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjb9a3$h3d$1@news.hccnet.nl>

 harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com (Harry Pehkonen) wrote:

>I have been defining new class methods when I'm trying to simplify
>some code.  But I'm thinking I should just define functions within
>that method because they aren't useful from the outside anyway. 

It's also possible to generate classes by using a factory function.
For an example of it getting a bit out of control see the code below.

Anton

---

from __future__ import division
from Tkinter import *

def template(x=None):
    class T(tuple):
        def __new__(cls, *args):
            return tuple.__new__(cls, args)
        def geta(self): return self[0]
        def getb(self): return self[1]
        a,b = map(property,[geta,getb])
    return T
    
Point = template()
Rect = template(Point)
Cube = template(Rect)

class Transformer(Cube):
    
    def __init__(self, *args):
        a,b = self.a,self.b
        fx = (b.b.a-b.a.a)/(a.b.a-a.a.a)
        fy = (b.b.b-b.a.b)/(a.b.b-a.a.b)
        f = min(fx,fy)
        wxc = (a.a.a+a.b.a)/2
        wyc = (a.a.b+a.b.b)/2
        vxc = (b.a.a+b.b.a)/2
        vyc = (b.a.b+b.b.b)/2
        xc = vxc-f*wxc
        yc = vyc-f*wyc
        self.f,self.xc,self.yc = f,xc,yc

    def transform(self, R):
        f,xc,yc = self.f,self.xc,self.yc
        p1 = Point(f*R.a.a+xc, f*R.a.b+yc)
        p2 = Point(f*R.b.a+xc, f*R.b.b+yc)
        return Rect(p1,p2)

class Cartesian:

    def __init__(self, master):
        self.canvas = Canvas(master,width=500,height=500)
        self.canvas.pack(fill= BOTH, expand=YES)
        master.bind("<Escape>", lambda event='ignored',
            m=master: m.destroy())
        master.bind("<Configure>", self.configure)
   
    def configure(self, event):
        self.draw()

    def draw(self):
        c = self.canvas
        c.delete('all')
        T = Transformer(self.b,self.a)
        colors ='Red Green Blue Magenta Cyan Yellow'.split()
        for i in range(50,0,-1):
            R = Rect(Point(-i,-i),Point(i,i))
            c.create_rectangle(T.transform(R),
                fill=colors[(i-1)%len(colors)])
 
    def geta(self):
        c = self.canvas
        p1 = Point(0,0)
        p2 = Point(c.winfo_width(), c.winfo_height())
        return Rect(p1,p2)
    
    def getb(self):
        a = 50
        p1 = Point(-a,-a)
        p2 = Point(a,a)
        return Rect(p1,p2)

    a,b = map(property,[geta,getb])

def main():
    root = Tk()
    ca = Cartesian(root)
    root.mainloop()

if __name__=='__main__':
    main()








From invalid at hazen.net  Tue Sep 23 21:33:31 2003
From: invalid at hazen.net (John Hazen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:33:31 -0700
Subject: why the inconsistency?
In-Reply-To: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com>; from mensanator on Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 06:04:33PM -0700
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030923183331.A16659@gate.hazen.net>

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 06:04:33PM -0700, mensanator wrote:
> I just installed Python 2.3 (upgrading from 2.1).
> 
> Version 2.3 is noticably faster and the automatic 
> conversion to long integers is very handy:
> 
> >>> print 2**64
> 18446744073709551616
> 
> 
> But if I want to know how many digits 2**64 has, I can't
> just do
> 
> >>> print len(2**64)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: len() of unsized object
> 
> So instead, I did this
> 
> >>> print len(`2**64`)
> 21
> 
> But the correct answer is 20, not 21. The reason the
> answer is wrong
> 
> >>> print `2**64`
> 18446744073709551616L
> 
> Why is the "L" there? I thought "L" isn't used anymore?

I believe the L is there because the backticks invoke __repr__ 
intsead of __str__.  I think backticks are somewhat deprecated
now.  (At least Guido called them "a failed feature which never
got retired".)

I think what you want is 'str'.

>>> a = 2**64
>>> repr(a)
'18446744073709551616L'
>>> str(a)
'18446744073709551616'
>>> len(str(a))
20
>>>

-John
-- 
<my first name>@<my domain>




From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Mon Sep 15 10:58:00 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:58:00 +0200
Subject: list of lists
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <87vfru85fr.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

Do you mean this:

>>> T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
>>> print T[0][1]
2

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 19 20:07:32 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:07:32 -0400
Subject: whitespace
References: <pan.2003.09.19.23.35.54.334022@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <3F6B9A44.BD3D35F1@engcorp.com>

RR wrote:
> 
> Is there an easy way in python to remove whitespace from a string?

>>> '  string with whitespace   '.strip()
'string with whitespace'

-Peter



From achrist at easystreet.com  Wed Sep 10 17:20:57 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:20:57 -0700
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F8742.C1C66903@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F95B9.A8CB5786@easystreet.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> 
> Queue.Queue.get() ...
> 

That looks good.  But that needs a thread to block, right? 
A generator manages to run without being a thread (at least
overtly).  If we have the suck() statement, we also need 
something that's the opposite of a generator (a Sucker?)
and something that's the opposite of an iterator (a Suckee?). 
I'm starting to get an idea why this is completely not all
there. 

The main question this raises is "How lightweight are threads?"
Can I program with dozens or hundreds of python threads in a
program (for example under Windows) and not notice that this is
an inefficient or inept coding style?


Al



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep  9 12:38:28 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 09:38:28 -0700
Subject: Jython class names
Message-ID: <1063125508.3f5e0204dee4f@mcherm.com>

Peter Otten writes:
> That's definitely not what I expected. So == is the way to go.
> Still, I'm curious: would the code below return 100 in Jython?
> 
> >>> class C: pass
> ...
> >>> many = [C() for i in range(100)]
> >>> d = {}
> >>> for c in many:
> ...     d[id(c.__class__.__name__)] = None
> ...
> >>> len(d.keys())
> 1

Well, I fired up my Jython and tried it:

Jython 2.1 on java1.3.1_03 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class C: pass
...
>>> many = [C() for i in range(100)]
>>> d = {}
>>> for c in many:
...     d[id(c.__class__.__name__)] = None
...
>>> len(d.keys())
100
>>>

Apparently the answer is "No". Really, in cPython or Jython or Pippi or
PythonDotNet, or PyPy, or any other python implementation that I may
not have thought of, the rule is that two equivalent strings _WILL_ 
return 1 (or True) if you compare them using "==". But if you compare 
using "is", or compare their "id()"'s, then they _might_ match or
they might not... it's up to the implementation and depends on what
kinds of optimization are done. The same is true for other built-in
immutable types, like int and float.

For example, in cPython 2.3, we get the following:
Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 9 is 10 - 1
True
>>> 99 is 100 - 1
True
>>> 999 is 1000 - 1
False

This is due to special optimization being provided for small ints.
There's a similar optimization for small strings:
>>> 'a' is 'a' * 1
True
>>> 'aa' is 'a' * 2
False

But if I try both of these in Jython:

Jython 2.1 on java1.3.1_03 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 9 is 10-1
1
>>> 99 is 100 - 1
1
>>> 999 is 1000 - 1
0
>>> 'a' is 'a' * 1
0
>>> 'aa' is 'a' * 2
0

Apparently that version of Jython includes the same small int optimization
but lacks the small string optimization. Really, if you want the answer
to be reliable, use "==" instead of "is" for immutables.


-- Michael Chermside





From kpaz at samorzad.pw.edu.pl  Fri Sep 26 16:36:56 2003
From: kpaz at samorzad.pw.edu.pl (Krzysztof Pa¼)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:36:56 +0200
Subject: UPDATED: Python SSL Socket Client to Java SSL Server. HELP me PLEASE.
References: <bl1otq$6vh$1@korweta.task.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <bl27su$195$1@korweta.task.gda.pl>

On the Java server side I'm using ObjectInput/OutputStream classes to
provide efficient communication.

After accepting incoming connection, SSL handshake is done properly - I
think.

Next, while server is creating streams for reading and writing data with
client I've got such exception in Java Server Code - during call of code:
JavaCode:            datain = new ObjectInputStream(client.getInputStream
()); - where client is client socket,
JavaException:  java.io.StreamCorruptedException: invalid stream header
        at
java.io.ObjectInputStream.readStreamHeader(ObjectInputStream.java:737)
        at java.io.ObjectInputStream.<init>(ObjectInputStream.java:253)
...
So, what is the problem ?

If there is any possibility to read/write data with SSLsockets from Python
to Java ObjectInput/Output Streams or not ?

Any ideas ?

Kris.

PS.
Main part of my test python client code:
===
def verify_cb(conn, cert, errnum, depth, ok):
    print 'Got certificate: %s' % cert.get_subject()
    return ok

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
ctx = SSL.Context(SSL.SSLv3_METHOD)
ctx.set_verify(SSL.VERIFY_NONE, verify_cb)
ss = SSL.Connection(ctx,s)
print 'Python socket client. Connecting to: ', `HOST`, `PORT`, '.'
ss.connect((HOST, PORT))
print 'Writing query to server...'
ss.send("GET_VER")
print 'Reading response from server...'
data = ss.recv(2048)
s.close()
print 'Received', `data`
===
this code make such output:
===
Python socket client. Connecting to:  [my server...].
Writing query to server...
Got certificate: <...[cert data - ok]...>
Reading response from server...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Install\Python\conn.py", line 24, in ?
    data = ss.recv(2048)
SSL.ZeroReturnError
===





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 15 22:15:49 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:15:49 -0400
Subject: object.attribute vs. object.getAttribute()
References: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vmcsjgpurnq85a@news.supernews.com>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-81B3E5.20291015092003 at reader2.panix.com...
> For the past 6-8 months, I've spent most of my time writing C++ and a
> little bit of Java.  Both of these languages support and encourage the
> use of private data and explicit accessor functions, i.e. instead of
> writing x = foo.bar, you write x = foo.getBar().  Now that I'm back to
> writing Python, I find myself in a quandry.
>
> Historically, I've always avoided accessor functions and just reached
> directly into objects to get the value of their attributes.  Since
> Python doesn't have private data, there really isn't much advantage to
> writing accessors, but somehow I'm now finding that it just feels wrong
> not to.  I'm not sure if this feeling is just a C++/Java-ism that will
> cure itself with time, or if perhaps it really does make sense and I
> should change the way I code.

I'm with Jeff on this one. If it looks like a value, then access it
directly.
If you need to slide a mutator in under it, it's simple enough to make
it a property later without affecting any of the code that uses it.


> On the plus side, accessors/mutators give me:
>
> 1) Implicit documentation of which attributes I intended to be part of
> an object's externally visible state (accessors).

Use the underscore convention.

> 2) Hooks to do data checking or invarient assertions (mutators).
> 3) Decoupling classes by hiding the details of data structures.
> 4) Vague feeling that I'm doing a good thing by being more in line with
> mainstream OO practices :-)

4 is actually the same thing as 3, except not stated as cleanly.

> On the minus side:
>
> 1) More typing (which implies more reading, which I think reduces the
> readability of the finished product).
> 2) Need to write (and test) all those silly little functions.
> 3) Performance hit due to function call overhead.
> 4) Only the appearance of private data (modulo some slots hackery).
> 5) Code is harder to change (adding functionality means going back and
> adding more slots).
> 6) Vague feeling that I'm dirtying myself by letting C++ and Java change
> my Python coding habits :-)

Items 1 through 3 don't matter if you use properties. You use them when
you need them, otherwise you simply access the attribute directly.

If you're using Python, you don't worry about private data. Use the
underscore convention, and don't worry otherwise.

Don't use slots.

I never worry about where a good idea comes from.

John Roth
>
> Comments?





From dario at fga-software.com  Fri Sep  5 10:36:25 2003
From: dario at fga-software.com (ProgDario)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:36:25 -0700
Subject: Executing a Jython function from Java
References: <67a857cc.0309050122.644ea7ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <67a857cc.0309050636.4ab33983@posting.google.com>

dario at fga-software.com (ProgDario) wrote in message news:<67a857cc.0309050122.644ea7ee at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> in the site I found a lot of complicated examples, but I can't find
> the simple one I'm looking for.
> 
> The problem is:
> 
> I have 1 jython file (script1.py) with a function named 'calculate',
> and a java file (run.java).
> 
> I'd like to call the jython function from the java class recursively.
> <<====<<
> 
> I think it can be possible to get a PyFunction object that rapresents
> the function, and then call the function from the already evaluated
> object, so I don't need to re-evaluate it every loop.
> 
> My code is something like this:
> 
> PythonInterpreter interp = new PythonInterpreter();
> interp.execfile('script1.py');
> for (int i = 0; i < 1000; i++) {
> interp.eval("calculate(8)");
> }
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Dario

I searched the web for a long time, and finally Jeff Emanuel emailed
me and solved the problem.

That's the code, any advice is apreciated:

import java.io.*;
import java.util.*;
import java.text.*;

import org.python.util.PythonInterpreter;
import org.python.core.*;

public class Calculate {
  public static void main(String[] args){
    PythonInterpreter interp = new PythonInterpreter();
    interp.execfile("script1.py");
    PyFunction func =
(PyFunction)interp.get("calculate",PyFunction.class);
		SimpleDateFormat sdf = new SimpleDateFormat("dd/MM/yyyy hh.mm.ss");
    System.out.println("======[" + sdf.format(new Date()) +
"]===========");
    for (int i=1 ; i<10000 ; ++i) {
      // Assuming calculate takes a float argument.
      func.__call__(new PyFloat(i));
			//interp.eval("calculate(" + i + ")");
    }
    System.out.println("======[" + sdf.format(new Date()) +
"]===========");
  }
}



From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Sep 29 16:12:03 2003
From: nospam at nospam.com (AK)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:12:03 GMT
Subject: shelve keeping old (unused) data around?
Message-ID: <nm0eb.44174$ai7.36973@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Hello,

I'm using shelve module in python 2.3 and I found that it does a very
odd thing, at least very unexpected to me. It seems that the data of a
replaced or deleted key stays in filename.dat file.

Example:

>>> d = [1]*1000
>>> from shelve import *
>>> s = open('test')
>>> s['test'] = d
>>> s.close()

test.dat is 4100 bytes

>>> d = 1
>>> s = open('test')
>>> s['test'] = d
>>> s.close()

test.dat is still 4100 bytes

If I do del s['test'], it stays the same.




From toby at rcsreg.com  Sun Sep 14 17:50:15 2003
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:50:15 GMT
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
Message-ID: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com>

Ok,

I miss the idiom that my other languages use,
something like:


while( foo = getmore()){
	process(foo);
}


I can't seem to do this in python without gagging:

foo = getmore()
while foo:
	process(foo)
	foo = getmore()


Is that what ppl do?  The manual sez that this is
so that newbs won't do:

if foo = bar:
	process()

thinking that they are checking for equality.
I feel that in a few ways python suffers by catering
to the uninitiated.  Usually however, there are
great workarounds (or even plain better ways to do the job),
which I am hopeful will be yielded by the list, as has
been it's record thus far to do.

Thanks,

Tobiah




From altis at semi-retired.com  Wed Sep 17 00:03:30 2003
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:03:30 -0700
Subject: ANN: PythonCard 0.7.2
Message-ID: <XWQ9b.209$JP6.71865@news.uswest.net>

PythonCard is a GUI construction kit for building cross-platform desktop
applications on Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux.

Release 0.7.2 includes over 40 sample applications and tools to help users
build applications in Python, including codeEditor, findfiles, and
resourceEditor (layout editor). A list of changes since release 0.7 is at
the end of this message.

All the information you need about PythonCard can be found on the project
web page at:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

The installation instructions and walkthroughs are available on the main
documentation page:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/documentation.html

You can download the latest release at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=19015

For a list of most of the samples that have been built with PythonCard and
screenshots of them in action go to:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/samples.html

The kind people at SourceForge host the project:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncard/

If you want to get involved the main contact point is the Mailing list:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users

PythonCard requires Python 2.2.1 or later and wxPython 2.4.1.2 or later.
wxPython can be downloaded at http://www.wxpython.org/

Additional Notes:
Remember to backup or just delete your old PythonCardPrototype directory
before installing a new version, so that the old files aren't still in the
package directory. If you installed a previous version of PythonCard on
Windows using the binary installer, then you should be able to remove the
old package via the Add/Remove Programs Control Panel.

The distutils installer will put the framework, components, docs, samples,
and tools in Lib\site-packages or your Python directory (typically
C:\Python22 or C:\Python23). Of course, on Linux and Mac OS X that path will
be slightly different and have forward slashes.

Windows users should get a PythonCard menu in the Start->Programs menu with
links to the documentation, samples, codeEditor, findfiles, and
resourceEditor.

The tools and most of the samples will now keep their config and data file
info in the "pythoncard_config" directory created by the framework. On Unix,
the directory will be ~/pythoncard_config. On Windows, the directory varies
as described in the following post:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/PythonCard/1496793

So, if you run a PythonCard app with any of the runtime tools and select
"Save Configuration" from the "Debug" menu, the window positions and sizes
of your runtime windows (Shell, Message Watcher, etc.) will be saved in
"pythoncard_config/pythoncard_config.txt" not the PythonCardPrototype
directory. Likewise, when you change the text style used by the codeEditor
via the "Styles..." menu item under the "Format" menu, the modification will
be saved in "pythoncard_config/stc-styles.rc.cfg"

ka
---
Kevin Altis
altis at semi-retired.com
http://altis.pycs.net/


--- changelog since release 0.7

Release 0.7.2 2003-09-08
ranamed MultiColumnList 'border' attribute to 'rules'
enabled MultiColumnList and Tree in the resourceEditor
added minimalList and minimalTree samples as tests of the
  MultiColumList and Tree components
added multicolumnexample by William Volkman
replaced older MultiColumnList component with version
  by William Volkman
added workaround for wxMSW GetFont() bug in MultiColumnList
switched to Raise() in fixComponentOrder to deal with
  wxPython 2.4.x change with Hide/Show
added shell.autoCompleteWxMethods = False to pycrustrc.py
  to hide CamelCase wxPython methods of components and
  other wxPython classes by default
added source.encode('iso-8859-1') to textToHtml to avoid
  print/print preview exceptions in codeEditor; this will
  probably require a more sophisticated solution
added workaround for wxWindows AppendText bug in jabberChat
  sample. This might need to be added to TextArea appendText
  if wxWindows isn't fixed soon
fixed popItems handling of RadioGroup and other components
  with an 'items' attribute in resourcEditor propertyEditor.py
updated classes in menu.py to be direct wxPython subclasses
added source file support to templates in resourceEditor
  updated File->New... process to save new files
added moreapplications.html page to highlight other apps
  built with PythonCard
added wx.wxDEFAULT_DIALOG_STYLE to singleChoiceDialog
  to workaround wxPython 2.4.1.2 bug
fixed samples launcher selection and added double-click support
added int(round()) conversions to fix Python 2.3 deprecation
  warnings
added '' back to sys.path in pycrustrc.py for shell work
changed default font size for findfiles tool on Mac and GTK
added autoSetEOL to codeEditor to automatically use the line
  endings already in a document
replaced \xa0 characters in source files with spaces
added macbuild.py to the minimalStandalone sample to show
  how to build standalones on Mac OS X
fixed double loading of pycrustrc.py files in loadShell
fixed config directory creation
fixed image rotation in slideshow sample for files in zips
updated fixed getStyleConfigPath in colorizer
fixed PILtoBitmap typo in graphic.py
PythonCard now requires a minimum Python 2.2.1 or higher
  and wxPython 2.4.x or higher


Release 0.7.1 2003-07-16
dbBrowser now supports PostgreSQL using the psycopg interface
An alternative dbBrowser using a wxGrid to display query results
  has been added. Its called dbBrowser2 and it re-uses much of
  the code from the original
changed wx.wxc.__version__ check to wx.__version__
added Save Configuration menu item to Scriptlet menu in
  the codeEditor
fixed config.py for standalone usage
added Thomas Heller's main_is_frozen function to util.py
added GetPixel method to BitmapCanvas
added userdata attribute to Widget so all components
  added support for userdata in the resourceEditor
changed resourceEditor to use a drag rect so dragging
  works the same on all platforms and no longer
  requires the use of CaptureMouse on Linux
added WMAvailable check for Mac OS X so the top frame
  appears in front when app starts
fixed pycrustrc.py loading on Linux/GTK
added Grid component and simpleGrid sample
fixed script launching in samples.py, findfiles,
  codeEditor, and resourceEditor
added spinUp and spinDown events to Spinner component
added dirname() function to util module to use instead
  of os.path.dirname()
  updated model.py to use the new function
changed true/false to True/False in STCStyleEditor.py
  to avoid wxPython 2.4.0.4 deprecation warning
changed 'items' attribute in resourceEditor to use
  TextArea instead of TextField for editing
fixed 'icon' handling in resourceOutput.py
Phil Edwards' started making Linux RPMs for PythonCard
added Phil Edwards Linux installation instructions
added Mac OS X (Jaguar) installation instructions
fixed font attribute in BitmapCanvas
added David McNab's walkthrough
  Increasing Usefulness with Timers and Threads
fixed order of wx imports so wx always comes first
added jabberChat options for conferencing and Show/Raise
slideshow sample changes
  added Goto Slide dialog
  changed F8 key to act as a Pause/Continue toggle
  added zip file support
fixed relative directory reference in webserver sample




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Sep 16 13:09:20 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:09:20 -0300
Subject: tuples vs lists
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F67@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Don't know about sizes, but the tuples are faster than the lists.

.       Facundo



#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: Ivan Voras [mailto:ivoras at fer.hr]
#- Enviado el: Martes 16 de Septiembre de 2003 1:52 PM
#- Para: python-list at python.org
#- Asunto: tuples vs lists
#-
#-
#- Are there any performance/size differences between using
#- tuples and using
#- lists?
#-
#-
#- --
#- --
#- Every sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from
#- technology
#-    - Arthur C Anticlarke
#-
#-
#- --
#- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#- 




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Sep  3 11:22:46 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:22:46 -0500 
Subject: Invisible function attributes
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623305FFD00B@mail.hebmex.com>

[lefevrol at yahoo.com]
>  
>  Python 2.3
>  >>> def foo():
>  ...     foo.a = 1
>  ...
>  >>> vars(foo)
>  {}
>  >>> foo()
>  >>> vars(foo)
>  {'a': 1}
>  >>>
>  
>  So it would appear that function attributes are not really
>  there until the first call to the function. If that is the
>  intended behaviour, it is really weird. I couldn't find any
>  explicit discussion of this topic in the LRM.
>  
>  Thanks if anyone can shed some light on this,
>

not so, function attributes are just like normal object attributes:

Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> def foo2():
	return 9.86960440366

>>> foo2.a = "x"
>>> foo2.a
'x'
>>> 

So... the only reason that your 'foo' got it's attribute until
you ran it, was because *inside* foo was the definition of said
attribute; you could always have defined the attribute outside
of foo anytime.

-gustavo



Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Sep 23 13:39:39 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:39:39 -0400
Subject: scp in python
References: <bk9ho8$hau$1@reader1.tiscali.nl> <ORIc/kKkXsiI092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <bVIc/kKkXAoP092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

"Michael" <qwerty at tiscalimail.nl> wrote previously:
|Is there a scp (ssh) written in Python ?

If it's worth anything, in my latest installment on Twisted, for IBM
developerWorks:

    http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html

I write a trivial 'scp' client as an example.

Twisted is almost certainly overkill if you just need scp, and my
example does about a tenth of what a real client should.  But you could
easily develop a real one using the same ideas.

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s






From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Sep  9 19:44:33 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:44:33 +1000
Subject: Eureka!
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD4F3B@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Skip Montanaro [mailto:skip at pobox.com]
> 
> Much greater?
> 
>     http://tinyurl.com/161
>     http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/
> 
> If someone is out to deceive you, having them post two URLs 
> isn't going to deter them. ;-)

True - but it gives more information.

Perhaps foolishly, I trust you Skip. But not enough to click those links ;)

Tim Delaney




From stefan.fleiter at web.de  Wed Sep  3 05:39:09 2003
From: stefan.fleiter at web.de (Stefan Fleiter)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:39:09 +0200
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062538564.1958.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062538564.1958.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj4crt$1uq$1@news.web.de>

Hi,

> Looks like a bug to me too. Stefan, please raise a bug report on Sourceforge (or it will get lost). Preferably add a patch and test suite ;)

Thanks, will do this evening.

Greets,
Stefan




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Sep 19 12:27:10 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:27:10 -0400
Subject: Binding frustration
References: <mailman.1063925970.14284.python-list@python.org> <bkesft$105nn$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <lc2cnchlI8rDs_aiXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:bkesft$105nn$1 at ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Whenever you use the assignment syntax (foo = bar) you create a
"new"
> binding unless you have declared the name global.

Name assignment (name = expr) always creates a new binding (and
deletes any previous binding of the same name).  The 'global'
declaration only affects which namespace the binding is made in.  I
believe that any sense in which foo=bar would not make a 'new' binding
would be equally applicable to local as well as global binding.

Terry J. Reedy





From jetman516 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 26 21:12:44 2003
From: jetman516 at hotmail.com (The Jetman)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 18:12:44 -0700
Subject: [2.2.1]How To Gracefully Shutdown an XML-RPC Server
Message-ID: <a38d43b0.0309261712.540f96da@posting.google.com>

I'm reading source code, but I haven't found any examples of 
how to simply shutdown my XML-RPC server.  I've done some nice things 
w/ it so far.  I can upload and dload arbitrary files, remotely execute 
sys commands, etc.  But I now want to use this code in a production 
project and essentially control a FreeBSD box from a MSOFT Access 
DB application.  But the only Python fn I haven't been able to coerce 
into submission is sys.exit() !

Here's my server method:

    def sys_Shutdown( self ):
        #   don't work as is....
        sys.exit( 0 )
        return 0

And here's what happens:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "D:\PYTHON22\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 821, in __call__
    return self.__send(self.__name, args)
  File "D:\PYTHON22\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 975, in __request
    verbose=self.__verbose
  File "D:\PYTHON22\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 853, in request
    return self.parse_response(h.getfile())
  File "D:\PYTHON22\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 896, in parse_response
    return u.close()
  File "D:\PYTHON22\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 571, in close
    raise apply(Fault, (), self._stack[0])
Fault: <Fault 1: 'exceptions.SystemExit:0'>

This is really bugging me, since I built everything else on 
my own.  Any ideas ?   Jet



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 30 16:01:46 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:01:46 -0400
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
References: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vnjo9ts3dhh2cc@news.supernews.com>

"Dominik Kaspar" <dokaspar at student.ethz.ch> wrote in message
news:62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b at posting.google.com...
> i'm used to java and its strict way of defining variables. so how is
> it possible to reach something like a class variable in python?
> with the following code i didn't have much succes...
>
> class Server(threading.Thread):
>     running = 0  (??)

This is correct - it binds 0 to the identifier running in the class.

>
>     def run(self):
>         running = 1

use Server.running

>         while running:

use while Server.running:
>             print "do something here..."
>
>     def exit(self):
>         running = 0

use Server.running

>
> thanks
> -- dominik

If you want to put an identifier in the class, reference the
class directly, or inherit from object and use a class method.

John Roth






From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 08:03:10 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 13:03:10 +0100
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

> "John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com>
[...]
> > > There are two aspects:
> > > (1) More power for same price - this works in favour of 'complex
> software'
> > > (2) Same power for less money - this works in favor of 'cheap software'
> >
> > And?  What is your point?  In both cases, the more bangs per buck, the
> > greater the economic advantage that accrues to Python when compared
> > with, say, C++.
> 
> There is no linear scaling in these issues. It is of no importance whether a
> word processor takes 0.1 sec instead of 0.01 for some operations. It is when
> it takes 5 sec instead of 0.5. The issues with hard real time programs are
> obvious. Most code is not written for home applications or some esoteric
> operating systems as windows but for telecomunication, industry
> microcontrollers, car applications,....

Windows is an esoteric OS?

Still, you make an interesting point here: is it the case that more
code is written for hard real-time systems than not?  That would
certainly surprise me.  Where do you get your data?


> May be they will be programmed in Python in 20 years, though I do not see
> it. You need a certified compiler, a fail proof and predictable garbage
> collector, and a little bit more.

Yes.  And?  We seem not to be communicating here...


> This is the matter of 'cheap' software.

Sorry, I don't quite follow that.  How does that relate to the rest of
the paragraph?


> Same argument holds for supercomputing as well. I may be wrong but I doubt
> that the ASCIs will ever see much Python in their production lifetime.

ASICs, you mean?  Well, no, but so what?  I don't think anybody has
ever *claimed* that Python is suitable for that kind of application.


[...]
> > Python is an order of magnitude easier to learn than C++, but it
> > brings really significant programmer-efficiency benefits.  As a
> > result, the argument about training simply doesn't stand up: the costs
> > are lower than the benefits even on a short timescale.
> 
> I know this argument well and have repeated it myself in the days of Pascal
> and  Algol68. Few have listened.....

Well, they'd be right not to listen if you argued it about Pascal.
There's a real difference in productivity between Pascal and Python.
Pascal doesn't even have built-in garbage collection, for heaven's
sake, which places it much closer to C than to Python in this respect.


> Programmers are generally not trained in their compyna, thea are hired
> including their special language skills.

You're begging the question: arguably, that is the mistake of those
hiring.  Training (for Python, anyway) will frequently be cheaper than
sticking to, say, C++.  Other skills are more important than
pre-existing ability to use a language like Python (though that's
certainly not irrelevant!).


> > > The fact that  a better world is possible does not mean you get it.
> 
> > True (with the definite exception of 'state any new thing you like'!),
> > but I get the impression most places don't even try.  Obviously, OOP
> > *has* swept the industry, and presumably most commercial development
> > makes use of version control.
> 
> There is a great, great  difference between what really happens and what
> management thinks is happening....

Point taken.


> [..]
> 
> > Total costs are exactly the issue -- the contention is that use of
> > languages like Python really does have a significant impact on that.
> 
> This argument had been used by the most ambitious software tool project of
> the last century, which was DoD's Ada. Very few people will ever believe
> something like that again ;-)
> 
> > > I should as well like to discuss your aspect of programmer's
> productivity.
> > > This is an important  factor. However all investigations show that
> > > programmer's productivity is an unmeasurable quantity.
> >
> > How would an empirical investigation show such a thing?
> 
> Alex gave a hint to a German study. I think he was refering to:
> http://www.ipd.uka.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprtTR.pdf
[...]

(That was probably the one I was thinking of in another paragraph in
my reply) I don't see how such a study could show that "programmer's
productivity is an unmeasurable quantity".  It's obvious that
variations between individuals make differences due to languages hard
to measure, but that doesn't make it impossible.


John



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep  3 09:29:54 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:29:54 -0400
Subject: Trouble with script fetching site
References: <3Zadnamljsa-dMiiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3F55ECD2.48F0BB0B@engcorp.com>

Stephen Boulet wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to parse a url to set my hardware & system clock (linux).

I can't help with the problem at hand, but I also don't see the
reason to do it.  Why not just access an NTP server and grab the
time the "proper" way?  Using a web page is a roundabout way of
doing it.  There's a nice setclock.py script which Google can
point you to which does the job much more easily.

-Peter



From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Mon Sep 15 16:30:35 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:30:35 +0200
Subject: unreferenced (???) variable; prob. simple
References: <mailman.1063654161.1263.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <988cmvcgvk1n00gpepp1iimtgfidfihkro@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:31:07 +0200, "Halfdan Holger Knudsen"
<s011362 at student.dtu.dk> wrote:

>goodday all - here's a snippet of code that just doesn't seem to work...at
>all! But I haven't got the faintest idea why I keep getting an unref.
>local var. error. Take a look - I know I can get good help here. And PS:
>Thanks beforehand. 
>

>begind = 0
>endind = 0
>
These variables are not know inside the function. The best solution is
to declare them as local variables in the function, as they really are
only of use in there, i.e.:

def stripfunc()
	begind=0
	endind=0
	[... here goes the rest ...]

-PU




From my at mail.ru  Fri Sep 12 05:15:18 2003
From: my at mail.ru (Kerim)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:15:18 +0400
Subject: Embeddor Woes...
References: <ab261cb1.0309101658.5357ed1a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063286417.20657.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f618ea9$1@shknews01>

PyRun_SimpleFile doesn't work for me too.

As a workaround I suggest to replace it with:
PyRun_SimpleString("execfile('test.py')");

Kerim

"Roel Vanhout" <roel at riks.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063286417.20657.python-list at python.org...
> Have you tried to use embedding.cpp from the boost.python examples? It
> will show if your configuration is working OK; if it is, the problem is
> obviously in your program. At first sight I'd say that your test.py
> can't be found - did you set the right working directories?
>
> cheers,
>
> roel
>
>
> Preston H wrote:
>
> > Hello, someone may have tackled this problem before but I have
> > searched the google newsgroups up and down and I can't find anything
> > on this.  I am trying to write an embedded python program in C++ that
> > will go out and execute python language in a script.
> >
> > I am using Visual C++ .NET, and I do have Multithreaded DLL(/MD)
> > turned on for the Runtime Library, I have the Python 2.2 installed and
> > their include and libs directories are set.  Also, I have Visual C++
> > .NET set to release version, mainly because I cannot find
> > python22_d.dll anywhere.
> >
> > This is the error that I get when I successfully compile this program
> > and try to run it at a dos prompt...
> >
> > The instruction at "0x77f85c41" referenced memory at "0x00000010".
> > The memory could not be "written".
> >
> > This is the source code that I am trying to test...
> >
> > #include "python.h"
> > #include <stdio.h>
> >
> > int main(int argc, char* argv[])
> > {
> > char *filename = "test.py";
> >
> > FILE *OurFile = fopen(filename, "r+");
> >
> > Py_Initialize();
> >
> > PyRun_SimpleFile(OurFile, "test.py");
> >
> > Py_Finalize();
> >
> > return 0;
> > }
> >
> > Like I said earlier, the program compiles without any hitches.  Any
> > help on this is appreciated very much!
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Roel Vanhout - Programmer/Systems Administrator
> RIKS BV
> Papenstraat 8 - 6211 LG Maastricht
> Tel +31 (0)43 388 3708 - Fax +31 (0)43 325 3155
>
>





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 11:09:00 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:09:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Internal Debugger Question
References: <6ee58e07.0309120604.3a1f4985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F4A293A97B6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) wrote in 
news:6ee58e07.0309120604.3a1f4985 at posting.google.com:

> i'm currently writing a debugger for python and found that some
> modules store an absolute file path in "co_filename" of there
> methods/functions and some store a relative file path. Because the
> relative file path can never be expanded to an absolute file path
> later (the sys.path may have changed) it is impossible to find the
> source code location.
> 
> Is there anything i have missed or is this simply a bug. I would
> highly recommend to fix this bug !

Are you running Python 2.3, if not you should upgrade as the behaviour has 
changed? The only relative paths I can see are for the script itself. Other 
modules, even when loaded through a relative path store the absolute value 
of the name.

Before trying to use the stored filename, remember that as of Python 2.3 
you can have custom loaders, so the 'filename' might not refer to a path at 
all (although the loader might have a get_source method to help you).

Even if it does refer to a path, the path might not be valid when you come 
to use it, if for example it was a path to a network drive which is no 
longer accessible. I think the best you can do in this situation is to try 
to use the path information you are given, and if you can't find a suitable 
source file either prompt the user or just give up.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From rajarshi at presidency.com  Sun Sep 14 18:00:48 2003
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:00:48 -0400
Subject: singleton or Borg?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.14.22.00.44.145379.31787@presidency.com>

Hi, I'm having a little problem with understanding the working of a
singleton and borg class. Basically I nedd an class whose state will be
shared across several modules. I found the stuff on the ASPN cookbook but
it does'nt seem to be working for me. I've included some code:

Borg.py:
--------
class Borg:
    __shared_state = {}
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__ = self.__shared_state
        self.val = {}
        
class Singleton(object):
    def __new__(type):
        if not '_the_instance' in type.__dict__:
            type._the_instance = object.__new__(type)
        return type._the_instance    
    
class Tester(Singleton):    
    def __init__(self):
        self.val = {}

t.py:
-----
import Borg,v

x = Borg.Tester()
x.val['a'] = 1

print x.val
v.func()
print x.val

v.py:
-----
import Borg

def func():
    y = Borg.Tester()
    print y.val, '...from t.py'
    y.val['a'] = 2
    return

I had expected to see:
{'a':1}
{'a':1} ...from t.py
{'a':2}

However I get
{'a':1}
{} ...from t.py
{'a':2}


Should'nt the instantiation of val in v.func() just use the val that was
already created when it was instatntiated in t.py?

I just cant seem to wrap my head around this oen, so any suggestions
would be appreciated.

Thanks



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Sep 11 19:23:37 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 23:23:37 GMT
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com> <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net> <66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp@4ax.com> <A8Ccna05HMkwQ_2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bjr05p$lf4$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:44:28 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

>
>"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote
>in message news:66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp at 4ax.com...
>
>> Actually I'm sick to death of the old 'your just trying to turn
>Python
>> into X' argument whenever I suggest that *maybe* Python might learn
>a
>> trick from another language. [etc]
>
>This seems to be a predictible c.l.py response to proposals.  I got
>similar accusations several years ago, which made me similarly sick,
>when I proposed the addition of list.pop() (which Guido did, in more
>generalized form, about a year later).
>
>My main objection was/is that expressed by Michael Chermside today:
>this would complexify a simplicity that I consider a good feature of
>Python.  Reading Bengt Richter's lastest response, also today, I
>realize that 'ref x' would have to have much the same effect of Lisp's
>FEXPR defun keyword -- of automatically quoting rather than evaluating
>args -- although on just one rather than all.  Perhaps you should be
>accused of 'trying to Lispify Python' -- or perhaps not ;-).
>

If we had a wrapper for rebinding targets, then maybe such a wrapper could
be passed to functions and used in a uniform way. E.g., faking it with real python:

 >>> class GAW(object): # Generalized Access Wrapper
 ...     def __init__(self, thing, key):
 ...         self.thing=thing
 ...         self.key=key
 ...     def _getv(self):
 ...         try: return self.thing[self.key]
 ...         except: pass
 ...         try: return getattr(self.thing, self.key)
 ...         except: pass
 ...         raise KeyError,'%r is not key or attribute of %r'%(self.thing, self.key)
 ...     def _setv(self, v):
 ...         try: self.thing[self.key]=v
 ...         except:
 ...             try: setattr(self.thing, self.key, v)
 ...             except: raise KeyError,'%r is not key or attribute of %r'%(self.thing, self.ke 
 ...     value = property(_getv,_setv)
 ...
 >>> a= ['foo', [23]]

Oops, I should have called this Inc ;-)

 >>> def foo(aw):
 ...     aw.value = aw.value + 1
 ...
 >>> aaw = GAW(a[1], 0)
 >>> aaw.value
 23
 >>> foo(aaw)
 >>> a
 ['foo', [24]]
 >>> aaw.value
 24
 >>> z=100
 >>> foo(GAW(globals(),'z'))
 >>> z
 101

Maybe something could be done in C and with compiler support to implement safe access
via deferral of the final access tail term of a target expression, using an object with an
apparent value property that works more or less as above -- but so you could spell it
e.g., awrap(z) or awrap(obj.x) or awrap(a[1][0]) by some magic ;-)

The compiler would have to know about awrap, so it could separate the final access mechanism
in the expression and create the code to create the appropriate access object...
(a lot of hand waving, but maybe not impossible?)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Sep 25 14:35:00 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:35:00 +0300
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com> <7h3smmm2m0w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <0ck3nvoicm45kb0oon2etsucttatc3aob7@4ax.com> <7h3ad8t2k6q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <89d6nv85qdrvegiehk25rpkpirogvqspgi@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:20:27 GMT, rumours say that Michael Hudson
<mwh at python.net> might have written:

>PS: hp-ux/itanium appears to be utterly horked...

Thank God this is not a HP/UX then... presumably.  See PS.

PS: What is horked???
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Tue Sep 16 14:49:21 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:49:21 -0500
Subject: None, False, True
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624A5F@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: M-a-S [mailto:NO-MAIL at hotmail.com] 
> 
> Can anybody explain this:

sure.

> Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit 
> (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

You're running Python 2.3 on a windows os.

> >>>
> >>> None = 3

you're assigning the value 3 to the name 'None'

> <stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None

the compiler warns you that 'None' is a special name that you probably
don't want to rebind.

> >>> False = 4

you assign the value 4 to the name 'False'

> >>> True = 5

you assign the value 5 to the name 'True'

> >>> None, False, True
> (3, 4, 5)

The interpreter prints the value of the tuple you entered.

Which part of this didn't you understand? (my mind-reading skills are
too rusty to determine if you think this shouldn't happen for some
reason...)

-- bjorn




From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Fri Sep 19 07:15:50 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 19 Sep 2003 13:15:50 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
Message-ID: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no>

Has someone got a Python routine or module which converts Unicode
strings to lowercase (or uppercase)?

What I actually need to do is to compare a number of strings in a
case-insensitive manner, so I assume it's simplest to convert to
lower/upper first.

Possibly all strings will be from the latin-1 character set, so I could
convert to 8-bit latin-1, map to lowercase, and convert back, but that
seems rather cumbersome.

-- 
Hallvard



From jb.richet at areas.asso.fr  Fri Sep 12 07:01:20 2003
From: jb.richet at areas.asso.fr (Jean-Baptiste Richet)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:01:20 +0100
Subject: using weave with Windows
Message-ID: <3F61A780.2030208@areas.asso.fr>

Hello,

weave could be highly usefull to me, but I can't have it work correctly 
on my PC, and I can't understand the error message. Could you help me ?
I installed the latest zip package by "python setup.py install", on a 
python 2.3 installation (OS = Windows ME), and here is a result when 
trying it :
=========================
IDLE 1.0
 >>> import weave
 >>> a = 123
 >>> weave.inline('printf("%d\\n",a);',['a'])
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "DbfilenameShelf instance has no 
attribute 'writeback'" in
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in -toplevel-
   weave.inline('printf("%d\\n",a);',['a'])
File 
"C:\DEVELOPPEMENT\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\weave\inline_tools.py", 
line 327, in inline
   auto_downcast = auto_downcast,
File 
"C:\DEVELOPPEMENT\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\weave\inline_tools.py", 
line 426, in compile_function
   verbose=verbose, **kw)
File "C:\DEVELOPPEMENT\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\weave\ext_tools.py", 
line 349, in compile
   verbose = verbose, **kw)
File "C:\DEVELOPPEMENT\PYTHON23\Lib\site-packages\weave\build_tools.py", 
line 194, in build_extension
   setup(name = module_name, ext_modules = [ext],verbose=verb)
File "c:\developpement\python23\lib\distutils\core.py", line 166, in setup
   raise SystemExit, "error: " + str(msg)
CompileError: error: command 'g++' failed with exit status 1
 >>>
===========================
The gcc I use comes from MinGW and is version 3.2. I tried out gcc 2.95, 
and it was nearly the same (error at the same place, but 'cc' was 
blaimed). I tried cygwin, and it was not different. I tried python 2.2, 
and the result was similar.

Any idea ?
thanks a lot for your help.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Sep  7 03:24:55 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 09:24:55 +0200
Subject: Need help on UNICODE conversion
References: <5lbklvgtlm6l4e1n51tnbin151drrh4410@4ax.com> <3F5A5905.9E8571E3@alcyone.com> <9pdllvgk17b3cetat24g9uj4hq9la7umt3@4ax.com> <3F5AC603.C35AC004@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <m3he3p83i0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> >>> u = unicode(codecs.BOM_UTF16_BE + u, 'utf-16')
> >>> u
> u'Kommentar Unicode *\xe4\xf6\xfc\xc4\xd6\xdc\xdf*\r\n\r\n'
> 
> ... which I can convert to Latin-1 and print to then see the umlauts and
> the double S.

It is better to use "utf-16-be" as the codec name in the first place,
instead of artificially prepending a BOM, and letting the UTF-16 codec
determine byte order.

Regards,
Martin




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Sep 11 18:25:25 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:25:25 +0100
Subject: list to string
References: <Km68b.2494$YL.621@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <t9t1mv8tph5ulv69k3mt6ihu4v0rkhsnjm@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:07:38 +0100, Graham Nicholls
<graham at rockcons.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi.  Sorry if this is really dim, but I'm trying to do something like:
>
>main (args):
>        fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")
>

args[1:] is a slice. So if args is a list, args[1:] is a list, if it's
a string, it's a string, etc... open expects a string -- as you
probably have already figured out.

>and get an error that open is expecting a string not a list.
>

So either you are passing the wrong argument: e.g. a list instead of a
string, or then, if you do want to pass a list then you have to change
your code. But now the course to follow depends on what you want to
do. So you have to explain a little more.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep 15 10:45:10 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:45:10 -0600
Subject: I: caching the sql queries
In-Reply-To: <003501c37b7c$486781d0$410100a4@utente65>
References: <003501c37b7c$486781d0$410100a4@utente65>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030915084315.041ddaf8@66.28.54.253>

At 05:27 AM 9/15/2003, Luca Calderano wrote:

>I MEAN YOU CAN ACCESS ADO TROUGHT COM
>AS EXPLAINED HERE:
>
>import win32com.client
>import locale
>from os import sys
>
>
>adCmdStoredProc    =   4     # Evaluates CommandText as a stored procedure
>name.
>adCmdTable         =   2     # Evaluates CommandText as a table name.
>adInteger          =   3     # A 4-byte signed integer.
>adParamInput       =   0x1   # from enum ParameterDirectionEnum
>
>
>class DBConnect:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.Cnn = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Connection')
>         self.ConnStr = r'File Name=C:\Graal.dsn'

I want to learn form your excellent example.

What is the function of r'File Name=C:\Graal.dsn' in this context?

Can I use this approach to connect to MS SQL Server? and if so how? what 
would the connection string be?

[snip]

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 18 09:03:11 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:03:11 -0400
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com>
	 <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com>
	 <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com>

Paul Foley wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:33:42 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> >>
> >> According to Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com>:
> >> > kasper graversen wrote:
> >> > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:36:44 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >> > > >> Erm, what's "MOP" mean?
> >> > > what has all this talk to do with documentation of the MOP???
> >> > Er, if you'll look back, you'll see that Anthony asked what MOP
> >> > meant
> >>
> >> Meta Object Protocol.
> 
> > Thanks, but one might say that this is what it spells, not what it _means_.
> 
> Read the introduction to _The Art of the Metaobject Protocol_, at
> http://www2.parc.com/csl/groups/sda/publications/papers/Kiczales-AMOP/

Thanks Paul.

If that description is taken as authoritative about "the MOP", then it 
seems to me after a first reading that Python *has no MOP*, and probably
will not, given Guido's approach to language design.  

Am I correct?  Or does the term really have a broader meaning than what
I get out of that page, and Python in fact has aspects that could be called
its meta-object protocol?

Key phrase: "Metaobject protocols are interfaces to the language that give 
users the ability to incrementally modify the language's behavior and 
implementation...".  Near as I can tell, part of the whole character of Python
is that a user *cannot* do either of those things.

-Peter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 15 16:27:54 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:27:54 -0400
Subject: calling objects parents'  __init__?
References: <e13963e818473ad69d0a49230e328b91@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <vmc87n7frshmd9@news.supernews.com>

<user at domain.invalid> wrote in message
news:e13963e818473ad69d0a49230e328b91 at news.teranews.com...
> Normally, when I inherit from a class that I have written,
> I want instances of the new class to call the __init__ of
> the old (actually, starting from the top of the tree, and
> moving on down).
>
> What is the preferred way to do this?

If you're using a new style class (one that inherits from
object,) look at the super() built in function. Be a bit
cautious with it, the usage isn't exactly obvious.
There's also an article on the method resolution order
somewhere that makes quite interesting reading.

If you're using an old style class, you have to call
them directly: superklas.__init__(self).

John Roth

>
> Thanks,
>
> Tobiah
>





From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep 25 10:01:04 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:01:04 GMT
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <AyCcb.164837$R32.5292095@news2.tin.it>

Invalid User wrote:

> While trying to print a none empty list, I accidentaly put an "else"
> statement with a "for" instead of "if". Here is what I had:
> 
>    if ( len(mylist)> 0)  :
>      for x,y in mylist:
>        print x,y
>      else:
>        print "Empty list"
> 
> which was supposed to be:
> 
>    if ( len(mylist)> 0)  :
>      for x,y in mylist:
>        print x,y
>    else:
>      print "Empty list"
> 
> 
> Is this to be expected?

Sure.  The else branch is executed unless the for terminates
prematurely (via break, return or exception) -- just like the
else branch of a while loop.

Typical use case:

    for item in allitems:
        if fraboozable(item):
            print "first fraboozable item is", item
            break
    else:
        print "Sorry, no item is fraboozable"


Alex




From rune.hansen at viventus.no  Sat Sep 27 06:45:20 2003
From: rune.hansen at viventus.no (Rune Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:45:20 +0200
Subject: unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
In-Reply-To: <m3r822a5so.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no> <m3r822a5so.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5Tddb.26096$os2.360623@news2.e.nsc.no>

Hi,
The tip from Klaus "solved" my problem for the time beeing, but your 
snipplet definitively goes into my "tool chest"

thanks

regards

/rune

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Rune Hansen <rune.hansen at viventus.no> writes:
> 
> 
>>What I need is the converted string to read u'Gratis \248l' (*
>>How do I do this without going through each and every character of the
>>string?
> 
> 
> You can register an error callback, like this:
> 
> import codecs
> 
> def decimal_escape(exc):
>     try:
>         data = exc.object
>         res = u""
>         for i in range(exc.start, exc.end):
>             char = ord(data[i])
>             if char < 1000:
>                 res += u"\\%03d" % char
>             else:
>                 # Unsupported character
>                 raise exc
> 
>         return res, exc.end
>     except:
>         raise exc
> 
> codecs.register_error("decimal-escape", decimal_escape)
> 
> print u"Gratis \xf8l".encode("us-ascii", "decimal-escape")
> 
> Notice That your specification is a bit unclear as to what to do with
> characters > 1000; I assume they are not supported in your protocol.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Thu Sep 11 01:43:52 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:43:52 +1000
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python 
In-Reply-To: <20030910201019.GA22261@bobas.nowytarg.pl> 
Message-ID: <200309110543.h8B5hqDX010079@localhost.localdomain>

>>> vald wrote
> 
> I wonder if there is any module for rendering True
> Type Fonts in Python ? I need to create a GIF files
> with nice antialiased text and I'm unable to find
> any module with such functionality.


www.pygame.org





From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Sep  1 12:30:09 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:30:09 -0300 
Subject: HELP : class and variables
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382E54@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- class test:
#-   var1=1
#-   var2=2
#-   res=var1+var2
#- 
#- t=test()
#- print t.res
#- >> 3

So far OK.


#- t.var1=6
#- print t.res
#- >> 3

Because you can not change a class attribute changing the instance
attribute.

Just google for "class variables in python".

.	Facundo




From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 19 19:56:53 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:56:53 +0200
Subject: whitespace
References: <pan.2003.09.19.23.35.54.334022@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <bkg55o$ttr$06$1@news.t-online.com>

RR wrote:

> Is there an easy way in python to remove whitespace from a string?

>>> import string
>>> "a b c".translate(string.maketrans("", ""), string.whitespace)
'abc'
>>>

Peter



From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Wed Sep 24 05:13:24 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:13:24 GMT
Subject: Executing a python script from an HTML link?
References: <tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <vn0tdkg96jlcc7@news.supernews.com> <1t%bb.407$Q44.601209120@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <3F7089DA.EB6E9969@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Uedcb.586$Vf5.802572521@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks!
"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F7089DA.EB6E9969 at hotmail.com...
> [Andrew Chalk]
> > I want to run the script on the server.
>
> Then you will need to figure out how to run the script on the server
> ;-)
>
> If you're not aware of how to do this, then it's probably best for you
> to read up on CGI, which is way of getting web servers to execute
> scripts (in any language) when the scripts URL is requested.
>
> > The problem is that I don't
> > have an html page as an HREF. Viz:
> >
> > <tr><A HREF="Fred.htm">Fred</A>
> > What replaces Fred.htm to invoke a server-side script?
>
> Whatever is the URL of your script on your server. Examples include
>
> http://www.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/myscript.py
> http://www.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/myscript.cgi
> http://www.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/myscript.py?paramA=v1&paramB=v2
>
> Your python script should then generate (i.e. print out) an HTML page
> when it is run (actually it can generate anything, images included,
> but HTML is a good place to start). The server takes the output of
> your script and sends it to the requesting browser. The browser has no
> way of knowing that the HTML did not come from a static file.
>
> You can read about Python and CGI here:-
>
> http://starship.python.net/crew/davem/cgifaq/faqw.cgi?req=index
>
> There are other "linkage mechanisms" by which you can cause the
> execution of scripts on a server, e.g. mod_python, but none is
> conceptually as simple as CGI. Also, CGI tends to be more portable
> between different server software, and is almost always supported by
> hosting providers.
>
> HTH,
>
> -- 
> alan kennedy
> -----------------------------------------------------
> check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
> email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan





From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Mon Sep  1 20:12:35 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:12:35 -0500
Subject: Structured writing to console, such as a table
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C8541FC5E@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Wow thanks!

Agree, sometimes you need to reinvent the wheel. But this time I had the feeling that this way of presenting information
was something that was very well "thought out", done before even markup language was 'born'.
When looking at examples, modules etc I noticed indeed that data easily can be presented in PDF, HTML, LaTex format.
There is a lot of good python stuff available. Sometimes I can not believe it is all for free.
But such a simple thing like writing strings/data well structured to a console, who is doing that these days :-)

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts, but also all other people who shared their code and useful links!

Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Moore [mailto:pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 6:46 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Structured writing to console, such as a table


"Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix)" <Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com> writes:

> Ok, perhaps a question on a newbie level.
>
> I try to create a simple 'write to a console application' where all
> the items in a string do have a variable size:
> items = ["a", "bbbbbbbbb", "cc"]
> Well, actually, I need to print a table as simple text, nice lined
> up in a console. So:
>
>
> Item:       Value:     Another Value:
> ----------+----------+------------------
> a         | 1        | 2
> bbbbbbbbb | 2        | 17
> cc        | 3        | 5
>
> My hope was that somewhere in python land an existing module was
> waiting for me. A module that also prints lines, headers....
>
> Unfortunately, I can't find it. Books, Google...
> Before I reinvent this wheel... please give me some tips,
> references, examples...

This is going to sound unhelpful, but I suspect the problem is that
the problem is too simple - everyone *does* reinvent the wheel,
because it's faster than going to find a generic solution.

Having said that, I didn't manage to quickly write some code for you
:-)

The first question is, what does your data look like? From your
example, I'd say that you have a list of items

    items = ["a", "bbbbbbbbb", "cc"]

but I'm not sure how you get your values.

Let's assume that in fact you have a "list of rows" type of
representation:

    rows = [["a", 1, 2],
            ["bbbbbbbbb", 2, 17],
            ["cc", 3, 5]
           ]

This may or may not match your requirements, but you should be able to
either adapt my code or your data as needed.

The first problem is working out the column widths you need. That's
not difficult, just messy (because in some senses, the data is "the
wrong way round" - a list of coumns would be better for this step, but
worse later on).

    def column_widths(titles, rows):
        '''Calculate column widths for a "list of rows"'''

        # Initialise widths to have all columns zero width to start with
        widths = [len(str(title)) for title in titles]

        # Adjust the width to allow space for each row in turn
        for row in rows:
            widths = [max(w, len(str(item)))
                      for w, item in zip(widths, row)]

        return widths

That's a bit messy, so let's dissect it. I use list comprehensions a
lot here - if you don't know how they work, it's well worth studying
them.

We start by setting widths to fit the titles. We assume that all rows
have the same number of elements - I don't check for this.

Then, for each row, we adjust the widths to fit the items in that row.
The list comprehension goes through each column, and the new width of
that column is either the old width (if the new item fits already) or
the length of the new item (if it is the biggest so far).

For each item, we're calculating len(str(item)) which is the length of
the string representation of the item - ie, the space required on
screen for that item.

OK, that was the ugly bit - now we just format the results. This is
simple, but a little long winded.

    def format(titles, rows):
        "Format a table"

        # First calculate the column widths
        widths = column_widths(titles, rows)

        # Create the result as a list of lines - it's more flexible
        # than printing directly
        result = []

        # Title line first (add 3 spaces between colums)
        line = '   '.join([t.ljust(w) for t, w in zip(titles, widths)])
        result.append(line)

        # Separator line (add -+- between columns)
        line = '-+-'.join(['-' * w for w in widths])
        result.append(line)

        # Rows of data
        for row in rows:
            line = ' | '.join([item.ljust(w) for item, w in zip(row,  widths)])
            result.append(line)

        return result

Now you can do:

print "\n".join(format(titles, rows))

I hope this helps. As I say, the problem is often that matching the
algorithm to what you really want is harder than writing the code in
the first place, so don't be afraid to play with this (it's nearly
midnight, so I'm offering no guarantees that this code is correct :-))

Paul
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From RobMEmmons at cs.com  Sun Sep 21 23:21:53 2003
From: RobMEmmons at cs.com (RobE)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:21:53 -0500
Subject: I love this language!
References: <bki8a4$20fej$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vmssr9ga2jk855@corp.supernews.com>

> I'm a complete newbie to Python and have been working the tutorials for
> only about 4 days (I'm doing 'How to Think Like a Computer Scientist'
> right now) but I already love this language.  It's much easier for me to
> learn so far than others I have tried, with the possible exception of
> BASIC.  

I'm in complete agreement.  I could not have but it better. I learned it 
in an afternoon 3 years ago and have never gone back!  

I think one could argue that python is the best and most veristile 
langauge out there--easy to learn, fast to code, wide application range,
... and cross platform too...

WOW!

Rob



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Sep 24 09:47:53 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:47:53 -0600
Subject: Windows dialog box removal
In-Reply-To: <MPG.19dbcef078a40b3d989688@news2.atlantic.net>
References: <MPG.19dbcef078a40b3d989688@news2.atlantic.net>
Message-ID: <200309240747.53550.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 25 September 2003 06:18 am, SectorUnknown wrote:
> I've written a Python script that runs a MS Windows program using popen.
> However, at the end of the Windows program, a dialog box appears and
> asks for the user to click on OK.
>
> Is there a way to have Python set focus on the dialog box and click OK
> so my script can continue?
>
> Does anyone have an example?

I wouldn't be surprised if there's an easier or more correct way to do this, 
but if you can reliably know the title of the window then the code below 
should work (assuming you have ctypes installed):

from ctypes import *
user32 = windll.user32

EnumWindowsProc = WINFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int, c_int)

def GetHandles(title, parent=None):
    'Returns handles to windows with matching titles'
    hwnds = []
    def EnumCB(hwnd, lparam, match=title.lower(), hwnds=hwnds):
        title = c_buffer(' ' * 256)
        user32.GetWindowTextA(hwnd, title, 255)
        if title.value.lower() == match:
            hwnds.append(hwnd)

    if parent is not None:
        user32.EnumChildWindows(parent, EnumWindowsProc(EnumCB), 0)
    else:
        user32.EnumWindows(EnumWindowsProc(EnumCB), 0)
    return hwnds

Here's an example of calling it to click the Ok button on any window that has 
the title "Downloads properties" (most likely there are 0 or 1 such windows):

for handle in GetHandles('Downloads properties'):
    for childHandle in GetHandles('ok', handle):
        user32.SendMessageA(childHandle, 0x00F5, 0, 0) # 0x00F5 = BM_CLICK

-Dave




From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep 30 07:08:26 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:08:26 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <cm1m41-hv6.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
 <m3smmfqa5l.fsf@ieee.org> <cddn41-je7.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <m38yo6r0t1.fsf@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

> Jorge Godoy fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 29 September 2003 
> 07:31 pm:
>
>> 
>> This isn't the behaviour I found here on a Linux box. The caller
>> process got 'stuck' and only worked again when the called proccess
>> ended.
>>
>         Strange...

I thought the same thing and even thought I was using os.spawnv() in a
wrong way. Even with the 'P_NOWAIT' flag it still hangs. 

I'm using:

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Mar  6 2003, 13:36:19)
[GCC 3.2.2] on linux-i386


I haven't investigated os.spawnv() alone in Windows to see if this
also happens there. It will be funny if by this very first time the
problem is on the Linux box instead of the Windows box (since I'm more
used to unices, I'm more familiar with their quirks than with
Windows', specially with all those 'flavours' of Windows...). 

>         I think NT has the ability to go by extension, but not W9x.

Windows XP can't go by extension either. 

>         You might have to explicitly invoke the python executable, and pass 
> /it/ the .py file as the first argument

I see. If it doesn't work using os.startfile() as suggested on another
message I'll probably stick with this approach. 


Thanks!

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 26 14:30:30 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:30:30 -0500
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
In-Reply-To: <ullsbe8gw.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
        <16244.22946.446379.622160@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <ur823fqiu.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
        <16244.30758.381156.351062@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <ullsbe8gw.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <16244.34246.325809.733705@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> It's still readily accessible, but it's hard to see that "PEPs"
    >> should rank up there on the front page with more general concepts
    >> like "Documentation" or "Developers".  Front page real estate is
    >> always at a premium.  I think it's appropriate that they are referred
    >> as they are now.

    Dave> Yeah, but after the front page I looked under "Documentation" and
    Dave> didn't find it either.

Ah, but it was there. ;-) I don't know if we need to more consistently name
them.  On the /Developers page it's called "PEP Index".  On the
/Documentation page it's listed twice, once as "Python Enhancement Proposals
(PEPs)" and later on as simply "PEPs".  In both cases, the link you were
used to changed from the top margin to the left margin (I think).  All three
links are to the root PEP page.  I'll generate those two pages and make the
link read the same.  "PEP Index" seems right to me.  Long enough not to
miss, but not so long that it wraps lines.  I don't think displaying "Python
Enhancement Proposals" aids comprehension anyway, since everyone refers to
them as "PEPs".

    >> On matters such as this, I don't even bother with the website.  My
    >> browser home page is a bunch (17) of popup menus laid out in a
    >> tabular format and a few <form>s.  It has two Python-related menus:
    ...

    Dave> Setting up infrastructure takes time, though.  That's what sucks
    Dave> about computers: you gotta spend time to save time :(

Agreed.  I've been using the same basic home page for several years, so the
investment paid off long ago.  About all I do these days is add or delete a
site to one of the menus.  (Another positive side effect is that if I change
browsers I don't need to worry about how to migrate bookmarks from old to
new.)

Skip




From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Mon Sep  8 13:35:09 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 13:35:09 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:

>     Do this simple test.  Get an egg timer (or any other timing device).
> Now set it to 4, maybe 5 minutes.  Now lock yourself in the closet.

Counter-test: Imagine your seven-year-old son finding your gun and
shooting and killing your five-year-old daughter while you're working
in your study.

That scenario is much more likely, statistically speaking, than the
absurd home invasion fantasy you posted.

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep 25 18:50:47 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 00:50:47 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
In-Reply-To: <m2zngtx2ob.fsf@deacon-blues.mid.mastaler.com>
References: <200309240802.h8O82mqF026019@localhost.localdomain>
	<m2zngtx2ob.fsf@deacon-blues.mid.mastaler.com>
Message-ID: <m365jgv5x4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jason R. Mastaler" <jason at mastaler.com> writes:

> Python 2.3.1 (#1, Sep 24 2003, 15:55:24) 
> [GCC 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> from os import fsync
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: cannot import name fsync
> >>> 

Why is that a bug? Your system just does not have a declared fsync
function.

Regards,
Martin





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 29 09:11:09 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:11:09 -0400
Subject: Checking for invalid keyword arguments?
References: <roy-B6EED5.17061128092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F782F6D.29E0CF5F@engcorp.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> 
> I've got a function that takes a couple of optional keyword arguments.
> I want to check to make sure I didn't get passed an argument I didn't
> expect.  

By the way, you didn't explain why you don't want to get passed arguments
you didn't expect.  Can't you simply ignore them?  That way you can 
easily expand the API in future versions yet maintain a certain amount
of compatibility.

-Peter



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sun Sep 28 22:21:42 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:21:42 +1000
Subject: Python mascot? How about a Pythoneer?
Message-ID: <200309290222.h8T2LqI17132@mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au>

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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030929/69d67969/attachment.ksh>

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep  6 15:53:22 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:53:22 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com> <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli9pochlcoc8e@news.supernews.com> <bjbb57$bb2$0@216.39.172.122> <vliectetv25iab@news.supernews.com> <bjcf62$3ka$02$1@news.t-online.com> <7ihe3pewu8.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>
Message-ID: <KWqdnaQnL4GppseiXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"Isaac To" <kkto at csis.hku.hk> wrote in message
news:7ihe3pewu8.fsf at enark.csis.hku.hk...
>   class foo:
>       def __init__(msg):
>           self.msg = str(msg)
>       def f(arg):
>           print self.msg + ', ' + str(arg)
>   v = foo('hello')
>   v.f('world')     # equivalent to foo.f(v, 'world')

I think this equivalence, being an answer to the subject sentence,
needs more emphasis.  An instance method is a wrapped function and a
*class* attribute.  The 'proper' way to call such functions,
consistent with all other function calls, is klass.meth(inst,
*rest_of_args), with inst as an explicit first arg matching the
explicit first parameter in the definition.  To me, having an explicit
arg match an implicit param would be a warty inconsistency.

>From this viewpoint, inst.meth(*rest_of_args) is a conveinient
abbreviation that works because of the attribute inheritance and
lookup mechanism.  Of course, beyond being just syntactic sugar, it
adds the very important flexibility of the programmer not having to
know precisely which base class will provide the method.  I think the
long form of method call should be taught first, and then the
abbreviation and behavioral reason for its existence.  (Perhaps then,
we would have fewer threads on this topic ;-)

If an ad hoc 'self'-rule were added, the inconsistency would have to
be consistently applied to all function definitions.  Python attaches
little special importance to the presence of a def within or without a
class suite.
Absent a metaclass override that affects function wrapping only for
those in the .__new__() dict arg but not when later assigned,

class k(object): # or no object
   def f(self): pass

nicely abbreviates

def f(self): pass
class k(object): pass
k.f = f
del f

Terry J. Reedy







From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 25 12:25:24 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:25:24 +0200
Subject: Snakeoil alert (was Re: newbie script)
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f72eb7c$0$29964$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> <bkuvdk$qpf$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkv4vv$6tj$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> However, I have noticed that when I copy and paste from KNode 7.2 using
> Strg+C/Strg+V instead of the middle mouse button, all '\xa0' are magically
> converted back to old '\x20' space characters.

Sorry, I have tried to reproduce the behaviour stated above and was not able
to reproduce it. So whatever I did differently, it was not the copy and
paste method :(

Peter



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Sep 25 14:38:20 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:38:20 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <a2m4nvgtop27etv0v15ino04ruuv5o0c11@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wCGcb.3063$yU5.2172@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Stephen Horne]
> The question is - is the exercise worthwhile. I'm not sure even though
> it's my own idea. I think it is nice in its way, and a lot more
> flexible than the 'iter_backward' method proposal, but that is quite
> likely a bad thing as it is probably massive overkill for the problem
> being solved - and in particular the extra flexibility has costs.
>
> What the hell, though - it was fun to play with for a bit!

Yes, it's a one ton solution to a one ounce problem,
but it was an interesting exercise and diversion.



Raymond Hettinger





From dave at 3dex.com  Thu Sep 11 19:43:30 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:43:30 GMT
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
References: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com> <2E78b.1002$8g2.829@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <CM78b.1004$8g2.561@news1.central.cox.net>

"Dave Benjamin" <dave at 3dex.com> wrote in message
news:2E78b.1002$8g2.829 at news1.central.cox.net...
> Another way to set up an RPC interface between Flash and Python would be
to
> use plain old HTTP GET/POST, with either urlencoded key-value pairs or
WDDX
> as a serialization format. (PyXML supports WDDX, as does PHP, as does
Flash
> if you Google around for the wddx.as script).

Just FYI, you can find the ActionScript WDDX modules here:
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/

And on the Python side, for starters, try getting this to work:

>>> from xml.marshal import wddx
>>> wddx.dumps('hello')
'<?xml version="1.0"?><!DOCTYPE wddxPacket SYSTEM
"wddx_0090.dtd"><wddxPacket
version="0.9"><header/><data><string>hello</string></data></wddxPacket>'

Dave






From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 11:53:35 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:53:35 +0200
Subject: How to inheritance overwrite non virtual?
References: <slrnbmjhjr.gud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <bkchst$q0r$03$1@news.t-online.com> <slrnbmjjp4.her.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <bkckfc$om6$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Axel Straschil wrote:

> Hi!
> 
>> The following will do:
>> 
>> class Derived(Base):
>>     def method(self):
>>         return Base.method(self) # call base class method
> 
> I tried in my chield-class:
> class K2(KObject):
> def bestCaption(self):
> return "Overwritten"
> def bestCaptionlong(self):
> return KObject.bestCaptionlong(self)
> 
> The Problem ist inside of KObject.bestCaptionlong(self):
>   return self.bestCaption()
> 
> The mother-class is calling the method of the child-class, not
> it own method. I want the mother-method to be called like "the
> chield never was existing", but I find no way.
> 
> Anny other idea?
> 
> Thank, AXEL.

What you want seems to be

class KObject:
    def bestCaptionlong(self):
        # class made explicit to guard against overriding
        return KObject.bestCaption(self) 

Some additional remarks: 
Do-nothing accessor methods may be acceptable style in C++ but are
superfluous in Python.
The abundance of xxxCaption and label attributes somewhat obscures your
design goal for me, but usually the ability to override a method to change
its effect is a feature, not something to fight against.

Peter




Peter



From ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi  Fri Sep 12 10:00:17 2003
From: ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 17:00:17 +0300
Subject: Cool & Useful EmPy project, prior art?
References: <du71xunfweg.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi> <1D58b.2052$vQ1.113255@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <du7pti6jedq.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>

> of the Emacs distribution). They are template.el and skeleton.el. There are
> no existing (to my knowledge) template definitions for Python with these
> Emacs modes but I am sure they wouldn't be too hard to produce if you prefer
> this form of interface.

I really would like to write the templates in EmPy. I'm not actually
thinking of creating a whole file, but small snippets of code to paste
into pre-existing C++ code (with Python, I wouldn't even *need* such a
program). I coded a few elisp functions, saw that the approach sucked,
and would really prefer an external program communicating through
clipboard; that way my Visual Studio wielding colleagues could benefit
from the program & templates as well.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://www.students.tut.fi/~vainio24



From bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be  Wed Sep  3 16:52:22 2003
From: bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bernard_Delm=E9e?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:52:22 +0200
Subject: python 2.3, cvs module specific question
Message-ID: <3f565440$0$1114$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>

Hello, I can't seem to be able to specify the delimiter when building a 
DictReader()

I can do:

     inf = file('data.csv')
     rd = csv.reader( inf, delimiter=';' )
     for row in rd:
         # ...

But this is rejected:

     inf = file('data.csv')
     headers = inf.readline().split(';')
     rd = csv.DictReader( inf, headers, delimiter=';' )
     for row in rd:
         # ...

The DictReader constructor fails with a TypeError:
init() got an unexpected keyword argument 'delimiter'
Maybe I am missing something here?

One rather convoluted workaround is the following:

     inf = file('data.csv')
     d = csv.Sniffer().sniff(s)
     inf.seek(0)
     headers = inf.readline().split(';')
     rd = csv.DictReader( inf, headers, dialect=d )
     for row in rd:
         # ...

If DialectReader does indeed not accept the optional "fmtparam"
then at least the documentation needs fixing. But then again
I may just be misreading it....

TIA,

Bernard.




From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Wed Sep 24 02:27:41 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:27:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

> In the less usual case you want concurrency between Python and the
> forked shell command,  for only later checking if the forked process
> is done, the usual way is to send a zero signal to the child using
> `os.kill()'.  The zero signal would not do any damage in case your
> forked process is still running.  But if the process does not exist,
> the parent will get an exception for the `os.kill()', which you may
> intercept.  So you know if the child is running or finished.

This will yield a false positive and potential damage if the OS has
spawned another process with the same pid, and running under your uid,
as the task you wanted to supervise.


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 09:10:42 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:10:42 GMT
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net>


-- 
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/


"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:46:11 +0000 (UTC), JCM
> <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:
>
> >Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >...
First of all, if you insist on using an invalid address, might I suggest
that "x at y.invalid" would be less visually annoying, with the additional
merit of actually meaning something.
> >
> >>>>> def Inc(ref p) :
> >> ...   p += 1
> >> ...
> >>>>> x = 1
> >>>>> Inc(x)
> >>>>> x
> >> 2
> >
> >While I'd not be against some sort of reference-passing mechanism in
> >Python, I think this is the wrong way to go--modifiability should be
> >evident to the caller.
>
> 1.  I pointed out that this is an advantage of the C# system, which I
>     was proposing to imitate.
>
> : The C# solution uses a modifier keyword, but that keyword must be
> : specified in both the function definition *and* the call. For
> : instance...
>
> ...
So, if I can summarise. You see a feature in C# that represents perhaps one
of the less-well-thought-out aspects of the language. You then ask how to
graft it into Python because "Python should be more like C#"?
>
> : The rationale for this in C#, I assume, is mostly about clarity and
> : maintainability - the caller can't be surprised when value type
> : parameters are changed in a function as he had to explicitly allow it.
>
I agree the requirement for the "ref" keyword in the call lends some
clarity. Not sure I'd agree about maintainability, though. And it can only
be a matter of time before people start suggesting that the ref mechanism be
used because there's a two-hundred nanosecond time saving ...
>
> 2.  You quoted the example I labelled as "(roughly) what I'd like to
>     be able to do" and ignored the one where I adopted the C#
>     approach...
>
> : >>> def Inc(ref p) :
> : ...   p += 1
> : ...
> : >>> x = 1
> : >>> Inc(ref x)
> : >>> x
> : 2
>
> So your criticism is invalid simply because the whole point of my post
> was to suggest a scheme where "modifiability should be evident to the
> caller".
>
But given Python's ability to have a function return a tuple to an unpacking
assignment (which has the real advantage that the intention to modify the
value of the left-hand tuple elements is explicit) I really can't see why
you want to complicate things further. "Explicit is better than implicit".

> >  Currently, if you see a call to f(x) you know
> >that x cannot be rebound.
>
> And if in some future version of Python the suggestion I made was
> implemented, when you see f(x) you will still know that x cannot be
> rebound - but when you see f(ref x) you will know that x may well be
> rebound.
>
OK, remind me why this is better than

x = Inc(x)

or

x, y = DoubleInc(x, y)

> >  I'd be more in favor of something like:
> >
> >  >>> def Inc(ref p):
> >  ...    p += 1
> >  ...
> >  >>> x = 1
> >  >>> Inc(x)
> >  >>> x
> >  1
> >  >>> Inc(ref x)
> >  >>> x
> >  2
>
> I wouldn't want this. To implement it, either a single compiled
> version of a function would need to figure out at run time whether the
> parameters where by reference or not, or several versions of each
> function would have to be compiled into the .pyc file.
>
> Also, I don't really see the benefit. If a function has by-reference
> parameters then rebinding those parameters is likely a big part of the
> purpose of the function. Supplying a parameter which cannot be rebound
> is likely an error caused by someone forgetting to type the 'ref', in
> which case they'd equally likely appreciate an error message as
> opposed to wierd, hard-to-trace logic errors.
>
So you introduce a "ref" keyword so that a dangerous and unneccessary
mechanism can be "safely" introduced?

still-not-convinced-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Sep 27 21:49:40 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:49:40 GMT
Subject: [2.2.1]How To Gracefully Shutdown an XML-RPC Server
References: <a38d43b0.0309261712.540f96da@posting.google.com> <yx6db.4829$RW4.3093@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <a38d43b0.0309271520.3f4548b4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <U6rdb.6113$RW4.4587@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

The Jetman:
> Thanx !  I *swear* I always spend at least a couple hours or so looking
> for stuf like this on my own !

The Python Cookbook is an impressive collection of tidbits.

> BTW, I haven't tried it, but I bet os._exit will fail just like
> sys.exit().

Unlikely.  sys.exit actually raises a Python exception,
SystemExit.  This is caught by the XMLPRC server
and converted into a message for the client.

(And this a reason you shouldn't use "except:" in
your code.  Though if you really need it, you should
consider
    except SystemExit:
        raise
    except:
        ...
)

os._exit uses the C function '_exit' which does an exit
right away, without doing the normal cleanups that
exit(3C) does.  It doesn't raise an exception and cannot
be overriden by other Python code.  (Unless os._exit
was replaced.)

>  Besides the reason for a graceful shutdown is more
> than cosmetic, since a forced shutdown (like a Ctrl-C) may occasionally
> leave the sockets allocated (which *has* happened.)

Let me guess, you quit a server program then restarted
it only to get a "cannot rebind to port" error message?

Ctrl-C raises a KeyboardInterrupt exception and its
effect should be the same as SystemExit, except for a
couple very minor issues.  It isn't the same as using
os._exit.

What you're seeing is a consequence of the code
not properly handling its network resources.  Eg,
it could register an atexit handler which forces
shut all open sockets.

See
http://www.manualy.sk/sock-faq/unix-socket-faq-2.html#time_wait
for a description of what's happening at the TCP level.

Even when that happens, it doesn't "leave the socket
[permanently] allocated" in the system level.  If you
wait long enough, the system should release the port.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From syver at inout.no  Tue Sep  9 07:23:52 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 09 Sep 2003 13:23:52 +0200
Subject: method post
References: <DSh7b.1346$95.81@newsr2.u-net.net>
Message-ID: <ullsy8at3.fsf@inout.no>

"franck" <opo at opo.com> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> how to do a post with python?

import urllib

args = {'firstArg': 2, 'secondArg':1}
f = urllib.urlopen('http://myhost.com/page.cgi', urllib.urlencode(args))



From jhf at hex.no  Tue Sep  2 06:34:41 2003
From: jhf at hex.no (Jørgen Hermanrud Fjeld)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:34:41 +0200
Subject: Compiler C or Python?
In-Reply-To: <20030826213316.GA7285@unpythonic.net>
References: <20030826213316.GA7285@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20030902103441.GA10169@hex.no>

On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 04:33:17PM -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> 4. It's possible to write code so that __import__ uses compiler.compile
> instead of the written-in-C compiler, but I don't have this code handy. 
> Also, a test suite is needed, and presumably a written-in-C implementation
> as well. (option 2: make the compiler.compile interface the standard
> compiler, and let the builtin compiler support a Python subset
> sufficient to bootstrap the written-in-python compiler, or arrange
> to ship .pyc of the compiler package and completely get rid of the
> written-in-C compiler)

Could you make an effort to locate that code, or give some suggestions to
where I might locate it myself?

And in general, if should want to alter the Python compiler, should I start
with the Python or C version? 
As far as I can see from your email the Python version is easier to modify,
but why two compilers? Isn't that a lot to maintain?

Sincerely
J?rgen




From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Wed Sep 24 18:26:44 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:26:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <mailman.1064411556.18402.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f721a24-4498de32-179a-496b-b6c9-d853b7c0ab3d@news.szn.dk>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

> Do you know anything reasonably simple, safer, and that does the job?

I'd always use fork() + wait() so I know I killing the right process if
I have to kill something.  Killing blindly is gambling.


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep  8 08:10:10 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 06:10:10 -0600
Subject: Ternary operator
In-Reply-To: <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>
 <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com>
 <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030908060441.03bdbda0@66.28.54.253>

At 12:42 AM 9/8/2003, Michael Geary wrote:

> > Andrew Chalk wrote:
> > > Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?
>
>Peter Hansen wrote:
> > See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=4.16&req=search
>
>As a newcomer to Python, I found it interesting to read the PEP for this:
>
>http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html
>
>In retrospect, it seems obvious that the way the voting was conducted
>insured that no ternary operator would be added to the language.
>
>There were 16 proposed syntax options, and the requirement was that a
>ternary operator would be added only if an clear majority picked a single
>one of those options.
>
>Well, with 16 options to choose from, it hardly seems surprising that none
>achieved a majority-even though several of them drew quite a few votes, and
>the most popular proposal did get more votes than the "reject all" option.
>
>Four of the options got significantly more votes than the others. Those four
>options combined got more than three times the number of votes that "reject
>all" got.
>
>It seems to me that the majority did want some kind of ternary operator, but
>the large number of options prevented any one from being the clear winner. I
>would wager that if the BDFL had picked his favorite from any of the most
>popular options and said, "Now vote yes or no on *this* syntax", he would
>have seen that clear majority he was looking for.
>
>I suppose this is all water under the bridge now, since the PEP stated that
>this was the community's one and only chance. I just can't help but think
>that the voting system guaranteed the outcome--but it's Guido's language and
>it was certainly his call to make.

THANK YOU. Your analysis of the process brings me a sense of relief. I was 
also confused and frustrated by its failure to deliver what (obviously) 
many of us wanted.

I was dismayed by the process being defined as "the community's one and 
only chance" and then set up to fail.

With the assumption that a majority of us want a ternary operator, I'd like 
to see the issue revisited with a goal of choosing an option by elimination.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From bblancett at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 09:18:17 2003
From: bblancett at hotmail.com (Bill)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 06:18:17 -0700
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4fd6e92.0309190518.3b226735@posting.google.com>

Thanks to help of Rudy Shockaert I was able to solve my problem and I
also added the capability to add the email body if you are curious and
don't know how. I also commented the code as well. Here is the code
result:

import smtplib
import mimetypes
from email.Encoders import encode_base64
from email.MIMEAudio import MIMEAudio
from email.MIMEBase import MIMEBase
from email.MIMEImage import MIMEImage
from email.MIMEMultipart import MIMEMultipart
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
#______________________________________________________________________________________________________
#Requirements:At least Python 2.2.2
#getAttachment takes the directory path and the filename for ex:
'c:\\MyFolder\\test.txt'
#You must put double back slashes in your path. 
#getAttachment returns email version of the type of file it takes in,
#For example if it is a text file, it will encode it as a text file, a
gif, it will encode it as a gif
#_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
def getAttachment(path, filename):
     ctype, encoding = mimetypes.guess_type(path)  #mimetypes guesses
the type of file and stores it in ctype
     if ctype is None or encoding is not None:     # example: ctype
can equal "application/pdf"
         ctype = 'application/octet-stream'
     maintype, subtype = ctype.split('/', 1)    #We do a split on "/"
to store "application" in maintype and "pdf" in subtype
     fp = open(path, 'rb')           #open the file
     if maintype == 'text':
         attach = MIMEText(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype) #check for
maintype value and encode and return according to
     elif maintype == 'message':                       #the type of
file.
         attach = email.message_from_file(fp)
     elif maintype == 'image':
         attach = MIMEImage(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
     elif maintype == 'audio':
         attach = MIMEAudio(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
     else:
         print maintype, subtype  #if it does not equal any of the
above we print to screen and encode and return
         attach = MIMEBase(maintype, subtype) #the encoded value
         attach.set_payload(fp.read())
         encode_base64(attach)
     fp.close
     attach.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment',
filename=filename)
     return attach

#_______________________________________________________________________________________________
#Here we set up our email
>From = 'myname at hotmail.com'
To = 'yourname at hotmail.com'
msg = MIMEMultipart()
msg['From'] = From
msg['To'] = To
msg['Subject'] = 'here is your attachment'
body = MIMEText('This is the body of the email!') #Here is the body
path = 'C:\\YourPath\\YourFile.txt'
filename = 'gfe.pdf'
attach = getAttachment(path, filename) #We call our getAttachment()
function here
msg.attach(attach)  #We create our message both attachment and the
body
msg.attach(body)

server = smtplib.SMTP('mySMTPServerName.com')
server.sendmail(From, To, msg.as_string()) #Send away
server.quit()


bblancett at hotmail.com (Bill) wrote in message news:<4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6 at posting.google.com>...
> I am trying to have the capability to email attachments. Specifically
> I want to be able to email a specific attachment that I name that may
> be a PDF document, text doc, etc. I already have a working piece of
> code that emails jpg attachments but does not work with any other
> types of attachments. Could someone tell me how to modify this code to
> send other types of attachments like the one's stated above(especially
> PDF's)? Also how do I determine the name of the attachment? Right now
> it defaults to Attach0. Here is the current code I have below:
> _________________________________________________
> import sys, smtplib, MimeWriter, base64, StringIO
> 
> message = StringIO.StringIO()
> writer = MimeWriter.MimeWriter(message)
> writer.addheader('Subject', 'The Text test')
> writer.startmultipartbody('mixed')
> 
> # start off with a text/plain part
> part = writer.nextpart()
> body = part.startbody('text/plain')
> body.write('This is a picture of chess, enjoy :)')
> 
> # now add an image part
> part = writer.nextpart()
> part.addheader('Content-Transfer-Encoding', 'base64')
> body = part.startbody('image/jpeg')
> #body = part.startbody('text/plain')
> base64.encode(open('c:\email\chess01.jpg', 'rb'), body)
> 
> # finish off
> writer.lastpart()
> 
> # send the mail
> smtp = smtplib.SMTP('fc.hbu.edu')
> smtp.sendmail('bblancett at hbu.edu', 'bblancett at hbu.edu',
> message.getvalue())
> smtp.quit()
> __________________________________________________________________________



From rogerb at netspeed.com.au  Thu Sep  4 07:35:05 2003
From: rogerb at netspeed.com.au (Roger Booth)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:35:05 +1000
Subject: Can't Open PY Files
Message-ID: <000801c372d8$971abc40$48ab21cb@rogerboo>

I've recently downloaded and installed Python23 and am having trouble getting it to function.

I've set the Windows 2000 path variable "C:\Python23" but when I type "python" in a dos command line I get a message saying  "'PYTHON' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program of batch file".

It does open when I type in the full path, and via Start\Programs\Python23, but when I enter "import 'filename'" from a file's home directory, I get a message saying: "no module named 'filename'".

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

RB
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From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Sep 18 10:13:09 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:13:09 -0300
Subject: Money data type
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F99@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Batista,
#- 
#- I know some old systems do allow arbitrary precision 
#- decimals, but Python 
#- doesn't have any.  What's the problem with floating point, 
#- that makes it 
#- unusable for you?  As far as I can see, it *IS* only when 
#- you come to print 
#- that it matters.  With arbitrary precision, you are likely 
#- to get more 
#- rounding errors.  Can you explain *why* the /storage/ of 
#- digits is so 
#- important ?

Are you trying to tell me that if I work always with float, and in the final
step (reaching the user's eyes or check in the printer) I "represent" it
with str (for example) or with "%.5f", I get no rounding errors?

If you are, I will believe you! (even "feeling" other way, but can not prove
it).

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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cualquiera sea el resultante de este mensaje. 

Muchas Gracias.
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From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep 15 10:54:40 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:54:40 -0600
Subject: from clipper move to python
In-Reply-To: <3812075547.20030915130057@chead.org>
References: <3812075547.20030915130057@chead.org>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030915085400.041dd200@66.28.54.253>

At 12:00 AM 9/15/2003, ads wrote:

>Hi Everyone,
>
>I'm starting learning python about 2 weeks, and still have
>difficulties to create GUI based application because I never learn
>about classes and other OOP things. Does anyone knows how to
>create text console application like clipper using python

In the Linux world there's the curses module.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Thu Sep 11 03:17:09 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:17:09 -0400
Subject: Opposite of yield?
In-Reply-To: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <20030911071709.GA85986@hishome.net>

On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 12:40:37PM -0700, achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
> The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of
> lightweight concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there
> any similarly nice way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around
> (perhaps in the middle of a loop) and wait until some other routine
> (unknown to the waiting module) hurls a value in?

Here is a way of converting a generator function into a consumer using
a single item list as a mailbox:

from __future__ import generators

def consumer():
    print "This code runs before any data is fed to the consumer"
    mailbox = []; yield mailbox
    while mailbox:
        print "Here's what I got:", mailbox.pop()
        yield mailbox
    print "This code runs after end of data is signalled"

# How to feed a consumer:

i = 0
for mailbox in consumer():
    if i < 5:
        mailbox.append(i)      # feed next item
    i += 1


Output:
This code runs before any data is fed to the consumer
Here's what I got: 0
Here's what I got: 1
Here's what I got: 2
Here's what I got: 3
Here's what I got: 4
This code runs after end of data is signalled


For a more comprehensive solution try Christian Tismer's Stackless Python.

    Oren




From PeterAbel at gmx.net  Fri Sep 26 11:45:42 2003
From: PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 08:45:42 -0700
Subject: eval's local arguement ignored?
References: <56e1eff0.0309230923.1215833f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <21064255.0309260745.6d3d5650@posting.google.com>

jseb at cs.mcgill.ca (Jean-S?bastien Bolduc) wrote in message news:<56e1eff0.0309230923.1215833f at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> I would like to associate a local namespace with a lambda function. To
> be more specific, here is exactly what I would want:
> 
> def foo():
>   a = 1
>   f = lambda x : a*x
>   return f
> 
> then if "f1 = foo()", I get a function whose parameter "a" is not in
> the global scope. But my functions are not to be hard-coded. I naively
> expected the following to work:
> 
> def foo(funcstring):
>   a = 1
>   f = eval(funcstring)
>   return f
> 
> but "f2 = foo( 'lambda x : a*x' )" won't work: "f2()" will look for
> "a" in the globals.
> 
> Looking at the documentation (I did!), I was then certain replacing
> the evaluation with the following would work:
> 
>   f = eval(funcstring, globals(), locals())
> 
> Or, while we're at it, evaluating the whole thing outside of function
> "foo":
> 
> f = eval('lambda x : a*x', globals(), {'a' : 1})
> 
> Ooops! the new function still looks for "a" in the globals... Although
> I could not find any documentation about the fact, it seems the
> "local" argument to "eval" has no effect in the above cases!
> 
> So for now, I'm doing something like
> 
> f = eval('lambda x : a*x', {'a' : 1})
> 
> but then my function looses access to the globals.
> 
> I know that only the very first case above gives me a function whose
> "fun_closure" attribute is not "None". But still I cannot see where I
> go wrong.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
>    JSeb

**kwa** is the solution!

In your factory-function *foo* you have to declare *a*
keywordarguement which is initialized with a.

>>> def foo():
... 	a=1
... 	f=lambda x,a=a:a*x
... 	return f

>>> f1=foo()
>>> f1(3)
3

A global *a* doesn't affect your function.
>>> a=1000
>>> f1(3)
3

but you even can get influence to *a*:
>>> f1(3,a=100)
300
>>> 
or
>>> f1(3,100)
300
>>> 

And this works too, even if you generate a lambda-function
as adhoc-function in the global scope:
!! You have to define *a* as first !!
>>> a=100
>>> f2=lambda x,a=a:a*x
>>> f2(3)
300

To change the global *a* doesn't affect your lambda-function!
>>> a=0
>>> f2(3)
300

But you can give your function the additional information.
>>> f2(3,a=1)
3

or more traditional
>>> f2(3,1)
3

And the default kwa will stay resident.
>>> f2(3)
300
>>> 

Regards
Peter



From mark at hahnca.com  Thu Sep 11 22:23:30 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:23:30 -0700
Subject: ascii codec missing under py2exe
Message-ID: <F6a8b.34398$S_.11374@fed1read01>

I'm using the MIMEText module as part of sending email with no problem until
I put it through py2exe.  Then I get this error:

        LookupError: unknown encoding: ascii

... on this line ...

        File "email\Encoders.pyc", line 85, in encode_7or8bit

... which looks like this ...

        orig.encode('ascii')

My guess is the ascii codec is not getting included in my build.  Can
someone tell me how to fix this?  I know nothing about how these text codecs
work.






From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 13:35:03 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:35:03 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it> <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com> <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com> <uy8w94wtz.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <lhacnvksb6ppje2lfogrqhv30rbcahgil2@4ax.com> <ulls92b18.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <136envcoppkt546p8rhjhpeqkj380a3g40@4ax.com> <uu16w1o6q.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <u5uenvobuacg0fuap6rvuvn04279kjtdma@4ax.com> <uisnbzt76.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <k3mgnvodhvog9e5qo32kp7e5d4a549s1e7@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:15:41 -0400, David Abrahams
<dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:

>That's why I didn't understand why you were giving me such a hard
>time.  Because it's informal speech I'm supposed to do quadruple duty
>to make sure you haven't misinterpreted me?  I really was going out
>of my way to explain this stuff to you politely.

Nope - occasional misreadings are a fact of life and shouldn't be a
big deal. But when you said "I never, anywhere, said "std::pair
supports..."" that seemed very pedantic to me, as the issue wasn't
your precise words but the meaning behind them. And when you said
"Hey, it's not my fault you read what you want to see into what I
posted." you seemed to be claiming that there was no room for
reasonable misinterpretation in your original words and that I was
100% to blame for the misinterpretation.

The whole point of my pedanticism was to point out that your original
statement was informal and subjective and that, while that was
certainly wholy appropriate, there was room for accidental
misinterpretation. IIRC I was not even the first to misinterpret - I
simply replied to Alex Martelli who had already misinterpreted your
words the same way that I did. So being made a scapegoat seemed
unfair.

And now I seem to be whining about it far to much, but really I just
want this point to be understood - and I wish I had been clear about
it in my last post.

>Then so is 
>
>     struct { int x, y; };
>
>Also, so is char[4], and unsigned long is a container of at least 32
>bits.

Not in the pedantic 'C++ standard definition' sense of course, but the
C++ standard has taken an existing word and tied a more restrictive
meaning to it. In the wider world the original unrestricted meaning is
still valid.

To me both structs and char arrays are containers in the
less-restrictive sense. After all, if a C programmer talks about
containers what is he referring to? And in C# even a fixed-size array
is implemented using a library class.

An unsigned long, no - that is a single atomic item. But then again,
IIRC, in the pre-C++ days when I first learned programming, 'container
for a value' was one common way of explaining the concept of a
variable ;-)

>Thanks, I think.  This is somewhat of a backhanded apology, but I'll
>take it.  [If you had just stopped with the last message, I wouldn't
>even feel it mattered].

I felt it mattered because I felt that I was being held soley and
entirely responsible for a mistake that I felt wasn't unreasonable.

I appologise for the misinterpretation because I did misinterpret, and
I particularly appologise for the overblowing because it arises out of
my oversensitivity to certain things you said - which I certainly have
no right to given the sarcastic tone of my earlier post, and in any
case I have no doubt your words resulted from frustration.

I do not, however, accept that I am enirely and soley to responsible
for the misinterpretation.

My persistence in sticking to this may seem bizarre and petty, but
there are reasons for my being bizarre and petty over such things.
Lets just call it 'desperate defending of what little self esteem I
have left' - and yes, it does tend to be counterproductive :-(

>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typeiter.html#l2h-149
>
>Read it twice, carefully.

OK - you are right and I am feeling a right fool. Sorry.

>I'm afraid not.  I never, ever make mistakes in the first place ;->
>
>infallib-ly y'rs

:-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Sep  2 14:49:15 2003
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:49:15 GMT
Subject: MySQLdb -- any way to get "rows matched"?
References: <fg54lvg2uhicjvl0i9a1vq5h925frjr4gq@4ax.com> <mailman.1062518530.3141.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj202l.1nc.1@kserver.org>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:00:58 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1062518530.3141.python-list at python.org>:

> 
>     Chris> When issuing updates in mysql (in the console window), mysql will
>     Chris> tell you if any rows matched and how many rows were updated (see
>     Chris> below).  I know how to get number of rows udpated using MySQLdb,
>     Chris> but is there any way to get the number of rows matched?  
> 
> I believe the return value of the cursor's execute() method gives you the
> number of rows which matched.
> 
> Skip

That's not what this says?

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1062375303.22663.python-list%40python.org

Just for confirmation, a little experimentation:

MYSQL at the command line:

mysql> SELECT * from example;
+--------+------+---------+
| name   | AGE  | COUNTRY |
+--------+------+---------+
| sheila |   30 | US      |
| arthur |   23 | NL      |
| bob    |   30 | US      |
+--------+------+---------+
3 rows in set (0.00 sec)

mysql> UPDATE example SET AGE=30 WHERE AGE=30;
Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec)
ws matched: 2  Changed: 0  Warnings: 0


MySQLdb in Python:

>>> c = conn.cursor()
>>> c.execute("""UPDATE example SET AGE=30 WHERE AGE=30;""")
0L
>>> c.messages
[]
>>> c.info()
''


Being a MySQL and MySQLdb newbie, I'm not sure if there is any way to find
out how many matched, via Python's MySQLdb module. I thought, from the
source code, that .messages or .info() for the cursor attributes/methods
might do it, but apparently not???


I'm using MySQL  3.23.57 and MySQLdb 0.92


-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep  3 15:24:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:24:14 -0400
Subject: Location of bytecode files (pyc)
References: <6f03c4a5.0309021745.3a79d951@posting.google.com> <3f55de7b@shknews01> <6f03c4a5.0309031028.3df1711c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F563FDE.FCA8B2C3@engcorp.com>

Rim wrote:
> 
> > If you're on Windows say:
> >
> > del /S *.pyc
> >
> > to remove all .pyc's from cwd and below.
> 
> Yes, and in linux 'find . -name "*.pyc" -exec rm -rf {} \;', but that
> is not the point. I did not ask about how to remove pyc files, I asked
> about placing them far from source code, in another directory, so they
> would not be seen by the backup software.
> 
> The backup software runs continuously day, night, weekends, all the
> time. Sweeping the pyc's under the carpet each time the backup is
> about to be saving my files is impossible. That is why we store all
> gcc object files and executables we produce on non-backed up
> filesystems by prefixing target filenames in makefiles with a variable
> like $OBJECT_DIR and $EXEC_DIR.

You have a fancy backup system like this, involving hundreds of Gigs,
and it can't apply a simple filter to avoid .pyc and .obj files?!

-Peter



From maney at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 00:48:21 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:48:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Advice from Jeff (Was Re: Is there "let binding" in Python?)
References: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list@python.org> <o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856@typhoon.sonic.net> <YJGdnbh7jKtyS_iiU-KYvA@comcast.com> <m5n9b.21778$dk4.677027@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <bkbdel$8il$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Don Bruder <dakidd at sonic.net> wrote:
> Definitely declaring variables. I'm nowhere near far enough along to 
> mess with templates yet. They just confuse me.

Templates seem to me (now - I still remember a time when they appeared
almost magical) a workaround for premature typing in C++.  Reminds me
of Strachey's comments on IBM's Stretch computer: "Like some early
computer programs it is immensely ingenious, immensely complicated, and
extremely effective, but somehow at the same time crude, wasteful, and
inelegant, and one feels that there must be a better way of doing
things." Python, in comparison, seems to me to be an intelligent way of
employing the modern CPU.  :-)

-- 
automation: replacing what works with something that almost works,
but which is faster and cheaper.  - attributed to Roger Needham



From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Tue Sep  9 07:54:00 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:54:00 +0200
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
References: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjketo$av0$04$1@news.t-online.com>

ben at transversal.com wrote:

> I am slightly confused about the way metaclasses work, having read
> "Metaclass Programming In Python, Parts 1 and 2"
> 
> I get the fact that the instance of a metaclass is a class, but in
> this case I fail to see why the following does'nt work:
> 
>>>> class Meta(type):
> ...     def __str__(cls):
> ...             print "I am " + repr(cls)
> ...
>>>> 
>>>> Class = Meta("Fish", (), {})
>>>> Class.__str__()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: descriptor '__str__' of 'object' object needs an argument
> 
> Whereas this does:
> 
>>>> class Simple(object):
> ...     def __str__(self):
> ...             return "I am " + repr(self)
> ...
>>>> obj = Simple()
>>>> obj.__str__()
> I am <__main__.Simple object at 0x402f676c>
> 
> The tutorial does mention this (slightly), but doesn't make it clear
> why this is happening. I am probably missing something obvious though!

The problem is perhaps the terminology (Unfortunatelly,I don't know a better
one).

The metaclass initializes a class. Just imagine, that the textual class
definition comes fresh from the parser, so you have information about
possible base classes, methods, attributes. These information can be
changed within the metaclass __new__ method.
Think of the metaclass as a factory that turns a class definition into a
class instance.
Other than that, they don't interact.

What a metaclass can do, is to change that information, before the class is
made into a class object.

Basicly, the metaclass concept is orthogonal to the inheritence concept of
OOP.

> 
> Thanks for the help,
> 
> Ben
> ---

Hope that helps

Stephan




From khliu at ev078.ev.nctu.edu.tw  Sun Sep 21 08:32:58 2003
From: khliu at ev078.ev.nctu.edu.tw (Tinmean K.H.Liu)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:32:58 +0800
Subject: problem about wxPython error
Message-ID: <012801c3803c$7d8001c0$b2df718c@evpc178>

Hi!
I install wxPython under WinXP
when I want to use some simple sample, there is an error message:

 File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", line 301, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\Tinmean\temp_desktop\python_0921\wx1.py", line 3, in ?
    from frame import Frame
ImportError: No module named frame

>From wiki's FAQ, I add new paths in  PYTHONPATH for wxPython and wx, but it is no use.
any one could help me?

thanks!

--Tinmean Liu in Taiwan
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From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Sep 17 04:43:13 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 10:43:13 +0200
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com> <bjh94c$j9p$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <fbf8d8f2.0309080911.1cf73016@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfllsnls9q.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan) hypothesizes:

> My explanation of the behavior is correct however.  list[a] always
> equals list[a % len(list)].  A negative number mod N = its absolute
> value subtracted from N:

Proof by counterexample:

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Feb  8 2003, 12:11:31) 
[GCC 3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> s = '0123'
>>> s[-20 % len(s)]
'0'
>>> s[-20]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IndexError: string index out of range


Your explanation of the behaviour is incorrect.

QED.



From rolfedh at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 29 19:06:16 2003
From: rolfedh at hotmail.com (Rolfe)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 16:06:16 -0700
Subject: Running mod_python on Apache on Windows2000 *
Message-ID: <cfd500a9.0309291434.52cbc5c7@posting.google.com>

Hi, I struggled, and got mod_python running on Apache/Win2k. Follow
these instructions verbatim and you shouldn't have any trouble. These
instructions are based on
"http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/inst-testing.html".
I've added specific information such as Windows filepaths and
filenames so there's no ambiguity on what you should do. I encourage
you to copy and paste to avoid typing errors.
Cheers, 

Rolfe 

INSTALLING MOD_PYTHON 

1. Make a default installations of the latest/best version of Apache. 

2. Make a default installation of the latest/best version of
mod_python.

3. Open C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\conf\httpd.conf in
Notepad.

4. In httpd.conf, just below the line "#LoadModule ssl_module
modules/mod_ssl.so", copy and paste the following section:

#Start of section pasted in by YOURNAMEGOESHERE 

LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so 

<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs/test/"> 

  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 

</Directory> 
<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin/"> 

  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 

</Directory> 
#End of section pasted in by YOURNAMEGOESHERE 

(NOTE: Don't mess around with the other configuration settings in
httpd.conf, - leave good enough alone. Don't worry about the
forward/backward slashes either - it doesn't matter.)

5. Save and close httpd.conf and wait a few seconds. 

6. Restart Apache by clicking the Apache monitor icon in your systray
and selecting Apache2=>Restart.

PROCEDURE COMPLETED 

##### TESTING MOD_PYTHON ####### 

1. Create a directory called "test" in htdocs so you end up with
"C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\test"

2. Create a text file called mptest.py in "C:\Program Files\Apache
Group\Apache2\htdocs\test"

3. Paste the following text into mptest.py: 

from mod_python import apache 

def handler(req): 

    req.write("Hello World!")
    return apache.OK

4. Save and close mptest.py. 
5. In your file browser, copy and paste mptest from "C:\Program
Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\test" to "C:\Program Files\Apache
Group\Apache2\cgi-bin".

6. Assuming your sitting at the same machine that's running Apache,
enter the URL "http://localhost/test/mptest.py" in your web browser.
The browser displays "Hello World!" and nothing else. This confirms
that Apache can run cgi scripts in the /test/ directory.

7. Repeat step 6 using the URL "http://localhost/cgi-bin/mptest.py"
instead. The browser displays "Hello World!" and nothing else. This
confirms that Apache can run cgi scripts in the /cgi-bin/ directory.

PROCEDURE COMPLETED - mod_python works! 

######## NOTES ######### Remove either of the following sections (from
<Directory to </Directory>) in order to disable cgi scripts in a
particular directory. I understand it is very poor security to run cgi
scripts under htdocs, so I'd try getting rid of that one first.

<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs/test/"> 

  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 

</Directory> 
<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin/"> 

  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 

</Directory> 
######### ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS ########## Thank you, Steve Holden, for
your guidance. I'm very much looking forward to your book, Python Web
Programming.

Thank you Peter Maas for your response on comp.lang.python



From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Sep 15 07:20:43 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:20:43 +0200
Subject: pyc2py
In-Reply-To: <bk3p54$8ed$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
References: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de> <bk3p54$8ed$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3f65a08e$0$97250$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

News M Claveau /Hamster-P wrote:

> Pirate ?


Or perhaps:

- project delivered to customer.
- Fatal harddisk crash
- Faulty backup.
- Customer requesting changes to project.


Or perhaps while preparing to distribute a project, a slip of the 
fingers make:

rm -r *.py

instead of

rm -r *.pyc


I don't think that those are unusual scenarios?



regards Max M




From forodejazz at yahoo.es  Wed Sep 17 04:34:05 2003
From: forodejazz at yahoo.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Asorey_=C1lvarez?=)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 01:34:05 -0700
Subject: audio module
References: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1759581e.0309170034.6399d799@posting.google.com>

Todd Stephens <Huzzah!@Huzzah.com> wrote:

> Is there such a module containing audio tools?  I am looking specifically
> for tools to manipulate ogg-vorbis and convert other formats (mp3, wav) to
> ogg.

You can try Snack --it doesn't support ogg :-(

http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/

-- 
David.



From rhunter007 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 12:52:25 2003
From: rhunter007 at yahoo.com (Rob Hunter)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <978900BC-E795-11D7-973E-003065F081D2@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20030915165225.7796.qmail@web40905.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the reply.  Some comments below:

> Tutorial
> 9.2 Python Scopes and Name Spaces
>
http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011200000000000000000

I actually find this reference, at least the
section on Python Scopes and Namespaces, quite
complicated, and pretty much unreadable.  But I
think I understand what's going on despite it.

>... but you can't write
> 
>      def outer():
>          x = 3
>          def f(arg): return arg * x
>          x = 4
>          return f(5)
> 
> to have outer() return 15, because 'f' will
> take the value of x from the
> enclosing scope, and that value is 4 at the
> time of the call.
> 

I think it's actually that this will return 20
because the x = 4 "mutates" (rather than
introducing a new binding) the value of x from 3
to 4.  Thus, with mutation, we are able to pierce
the function.  (Reason #1 in this email why
mutation is often a bad thing.)

What you can do, though, is this: which shows
that Python has (correct) static scoping:

def create():
  x = 3
  def f(arg):
    return arg*x
  return f

def use():
  x = 2
  someF = test()
  x = 4
  return someF(1)

Now use() returns 3, not 4 or 5.  And the reason,
I think, is that the x in use() is different from
the x in create().

> If you want to have f capture the value of x at
> that moment, you must
> manually introduce another layer of nesting:
> 
>      def outer():
>          x = 3
>          def inner(x):
>              def f(arg): return arg*x
>              return f
>          f = inner(x)
>          x = 4
>          return f(5)

well no, you can just do what I did above.  But
yes, if you want to use the same name x in the
same function it seems that, in Python, you are
out of luck.  But I can deal with that.

> 
> or you can try to structure your code so that
> you can avoid re-using the
> name 'x'.  One common example of a situation
> where you can't avoid it
> is something like this:
> 
>      from Tkinter import *
> 
>      def button_func(i):
>          print "pressed button", i
> 
>      def make_stupid_gui():
>          t = Tk()
>          for i in range(10):
>              b = Button(t, text="Button #%d" %
> i,
>                  command=lambda:
> button_func(i))
>              b.pack()
>      make_stupid_gui()
> 
> 

I got mutation red-handed here!  The *only*
reason there is a problem here is because of
mutation (Reason #2).  The FOR statement is
mutating the variable i.  Avoid mutation, and you
avoid this problem.  This, by the way, really
illustrates the insidiousness of mutation.  IMO,
you can look at the code above and think it's
perfectly correct...after all, you do a loop on
i, creating one button for each of the 10 i's. 
What could go wrong?

In scheme, you could write something like this:

(let loop ((i 1))
  (if (> i 10)
      empty
      (cons (make-button i)
            (loop (+ 1 i)))))

This program returns a list of 10 buttons
(assuming "make-button" creates numbered buttons)
from 1 to 10.

IMO, this looks a lot like your button code,
except there's no mutation and thus no problem of
making every button be button 10.

Here's another Scheme program:

(map make-button (enumerate 1 10))

This is the way I would write the program in
Scheme *or* in Python.  It's beautiful, and it
does exactly what you'd think it would. 


> 
> Not an answer, but advice: when writing
> programs in Python, write Python
> programs.  If it's your task to translate some
> Scheme (or any other
> language) into Python as literally as possible,
> my heart goes out to 
> you.

I'm simply trying to learn to write in Python in
a way that I will find tolerable.  I really like
a lot of it, so far, and I find it fun to write
it, and very pretty and easy to read.  

In general, in most cases, I find it
*unacceptable* to use mutation.  And, since
Python is very much a Scheme-like language, and
has functional components (like map, and
uh...functions :) with proper scoping) I think
that this is quite a reasonable thing to want. 
The trick is knowing when mutation happens, so
that the programmer is aware when s/he is
entering a scary land where things may not be
what they seem.  And it seems from your
references and my tests that the "=" operator is
mutative.  In Scheme there's no issue..you
introduce a binding with LET and you mutate a
binding with SET!.  In Python, the way I see it,
you introduce a binding with "=" and you mutate a
binding with "=".

There seems to be some "functional" module (which
isn't installed on my system for some reason)
which I should look in to.  From what I can tell,
it prevents you from mutating...it only allows
you to introduce bindings.

Rob

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 13:07:11 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:07:11 -0500
Subject: Forcing getopt to process a specific option first??
In-Reply-To: <bkcnkd$8ml6$1@ID-122008.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bkcnkd$8ml6$1@ID-122008.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16233.58943.287151.189586@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Dan> Is there any way to force getopt to process one option first??  I'd
    Dan> like to be able to pass in the name of a configuration file for my
    Dan> application, then have the remaining command-line parameters
    Dan> over-ride the configuration file if they are present.

Not that I'm aware of.  If the order of the remaining options doesn't
matter, you might try splitting the argument list before the option which
introduces your config file.  For example, given this set of command line
args:

    -f bar -o baz -c configfile -o bump -h

locate the '-c' and use it to split the argument list, then swap the two
pieces:

    >>> s = "-f bar -o baz -c configfile -o bump -h"
    >>> args = s.split()
    >>> args
    ['-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz', '-c', 'configfile', '-o', 'bump', '-h']
    >>> index = args.index('-c')
    >>> index
    4
    >>> args[:index], args[index:]
    (['-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz'], ['-c', 'configfile', '-o', 'bump', '-h'])
    >>> args = args[index:] + args[:index]
    >>> args
    ['-c', 'configfile', '-o', 'bump', '-h', '-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz']

Now pass that list to getopt.getopt().

If the order of the remaining arguments does matter, you just split the
argument list into three pieces, the part before rearranging:

    >>> args[:index], args[index:index+2], args[index+2:]
    (['-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz'], ['-c', 'configfile'], ['-o', 'bump', '-h'])
    >>> args = args[index:index+2] + args[:index] + args[index+2:]
    >>> args
    ['-c', 'configfile', '-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz', '-o', 'bump', '-h']

Skip




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep  8 07:28:17 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:28:17 -0400
Subject: Ternary operator (Re: Ternery operator)
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com> <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vlopubqopkhaaf@news.supernews.com>

"Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote in message
news:vlo9699d77sj3e at corp.supernews.com...
> > Andrew Chalk wrote:
> > > Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?
>
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=4.16&req=search
>
> As a newcomer to Python, I found it interesting to read the PEP for this:
>
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html
>
> In retrospect, it seems obvious that the way the voting was conducted
> insured that no ternary operator would be added to the language.

I absolutely concur. In fact, I thought that as soon as the voting style
was proposed.

> There were 16 proposed syntax options, and the requirement was that a
> ternary operator would be added only if an clear majority picked a single
> one of those options.

I don't believe that was the case originally. I think the idea of
enumerating
suggestions and having a vote came later.

> Well, with 16 options to choose from, it hardly seems surprising that none
> achieved a majority-even though several of them drew quite a few votes,
and
> the most popular proposal did get more votes than the "reject all" option.

Yup.

> Four of the options got significantly more votes than the others. Those
four
> options combined got more than three times the number of votes that
"reject
> all" got.

In other words, there was a super-majority to get something in.

> It seems to me that the majority did want some kind of ternary operator,
but
> the large number of options prevented any one from being the clear winner.
I
> would wager that if the BDFL had picked his favorite from any of the most
> popular options and said, "Now vote yes or no on *this* syntax", he would
> have seen that clear majority he was looking for.

I agree. In fact, unless the syntax was truely awful, I'd have voted for it,
whatever it was. I don't regard myself as a language designer.

> I suppose this is all water under the bridge now, since the PEP stated
that
> this was the community's one and only chance. I just can't help but think
> that the voting system guaranteed the outcome--but it's Guido's language
and
> it was certainly his call to make.

I wouldn't cast the blame on Guido. It's quite clear that he doesn't
like the notion, but I don't get the impression that he's got the kind
of devious mind that would think this was the way to resolve it.
On the contrary, he seems to be a quite straightforward fellow in
most ways.

The whole notion of "one and only chance" is astonishingly naive.
There is no way that the vote on PEP 308 is going to keep people
from bring up the idea, and having the opponents refer to it as the
"community decision" when the vote was clearly in favor of having
the feature added to the language will simply drive people away
from the process.

> -Mike (who just got my California voter's pamphlet with 135 candidates for
> governor!)

Interesting thought there...

John Roth
>
>





From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Tue Sep 23 17:20:18 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:20:18 GMT
Subject: Executing a python script from an HTML link?
References: <tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <1co0nvk1h60qagov4v60874grijiscvluq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <mO2cb.446$xi7.647315491@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks!
"Rene Pijlman" <reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid> wrote in
message news:1co0nvk1h60qagov4v60874grijiscvluq at 4ax.com...
> Andrew Chalk:
> >Is this possible? In my CGI app. I display a web page with a link
(anchor).
> >When the link is clicked I want to exectute a python script rather than
go
> >to an HTML page.
>
> IIUYC: make the link tot a Python CGI script instead of to an HTML page.
>
> -- 
> Ren? Pijlman





From mymail.5.tth at spamgourmet.com  Mon Sep 22 11:27:27 2003
From: mymail.5.tth at spamgourmet.com (T.T.H.)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 08:27:27 -0700
Subject: questions about a C++ COM object accessed in Python via win32com
Message-ID: <e46a6e85.0309220727.c867ab4@posting.google.com>

Hi

I am coding a C++ COM object which I want to access in Python. For that
I do have some detail questions and need help since I am not that familiar
with the documentation itself of Python and win32com yet.


1.
How do I know that...

import win32com.client

...was successful or not?


2.
In my COM object I do have the following C++ function:

STDMETHODIMP CMyTestObjekt::Connect()
{
  if (m_boolReadyToConnect == false) {
    return E_FAIL;
  }
  return S_OK;
}

How do I know in Python whether I got back a S_OK or an E_FAIL? Or is this
whole concept wrong and I should better make an additional return value like:

MyFunktion(......., [out, retval] BOOL *pVal);  (declaration in the IDL)


3.
If I execute the following command...

MyObject = win32com.client.Dispatch("MyCOM.MySuperCOMObject")

...what is the return value from which I know whether it was successful?
Or what can be the ""content"" of "MyObject" afterwards?


4.
If I have a function in Python in which I call the (global) COM Object,
what "if" do I have to use to know whether the COM object already had
been allocated? I tried the following but that didn't work:

def foo():
  if MyObject == None:
    print "COM not there yet"
  else:
    print MyObject.Message


I'd really appreciate any help. Or even a hint where to look in the "original"
documentation. FYI: I do use Win2000 and ActiveState ActivePython 2.2 which
already includes win32com.

Bye,
Matthias "T.T.H." Grobe



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep 30 09:48:52 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:48:52 +0200
Subject: Best Bug Tracker on Zope platform ?
In-Reply-To: <62f2814b.0309300355.6091dd84@posting.google.com>
References: <62f2814b.0309300355.6091dd84@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F7989C4.4080505@ghaering.de>

Jerrykhan wrote:
> Hello,
> who know the best Bug tracker system on a Python/Zope server ? [...]

Not ZOPE-based but written in Python: Roundup.

-- Gerhard




From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Sat Sep 20 06:18:15 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:18:15 +0200
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com>
 <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com>
 <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com>
 <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com>
 <87llsma4fb.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>
 <95b4b9ac.0309181021.14b45d65@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87ad8zsqzc.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth) writes:


> No because in many cases the reason why you want to use the syntax
> l[seq] is that you already have seq, so you would refer to it by name
> and "l[s]" is definitely not hard to parse.

So you want l[seq] to be a shorter way for current

[l[i] for i in seq]

Which is pythonic as it is explicit, easier to read if the code is not
written by you yesterday, although in some situations your interpretation
of l[seq] might be guessable from the context.


> Not at all. I was suggesting to use a semi-colon not a colon. Thus if 
> l is (10,20,30,40), l[:3] -> (10,20,30) whereas l[(0,3)] -> (10, 30), 
> i.e., same as in your class-based example, minus the parentheses, which
> I now realize are superfluous (odd that python allows you to omit the
> parentheses but not the commas).

Sorry for my misunderstanding, yes it would be nice to have a
posibility to index a sequence with a list of indices, here is a pure
Python (>= 2.2) implementation of the idea:

class List(list):

    def __getitem__(self, index):
        if isinstance(index, (tuple, list)):
            return [list.__getitem__(self, i) for i in index]
        else:
            return list.__getitem__(self, index)

>>> l = List(range(0, 100, 10))
>>> l[0,2,3]
[0, 20, 30]

but in this simple using both commas and slices will not work as
expected

>>> l[0,1,7:]
[0, 10, [70, 80, 90]]


>
>> 2. Slicing two dimensional object will not be possible as the notion
>>    you proposed is used just for that (ex. l[1,2] which is equivalent
>>    to l[(1,2)] see below), and Numeric and numarray use it.
>
> Same misunderstanding as above, I believe. Let, e.g., l be 
> ((1,10,100),(2,20,200),(3,30,300),(4,40,400)). Then l[2:; 1:] ->
> [(30, 300), (40, 400)]. This is equivalent to [i[1:] for i in l[2:]]
> but, at least to me, it is the index notation that is easier to parse.
>
> Incidentally, it strikes me that there are a lot of superfluous
> commas. Why not just (1 10 100) or even 1 10 100 instead of (1,10,100)? 
> The commas do make the expression harder to parse visually.
>

This will will work until there are no expressions in the sequence.
If there are it is harder to read (and may be more error prone)

(1 + 3  4 + 2)


>> >>> # multi dimensional indexing
>> >>> c[1,3]
>
> I disagree that this is "multidimensional". You are passing a list 
> and getting back a list, so this is still flat. I think you are
> confusing dimensionality and cardinality.
>
That is the notion of multidimensional indexing in Python.

>> Numeric and numarray use it
>
> This is good if it is true (I have yet to look at these two because
> my work is not primarily numerical) but, again, the restriction of this
> syntax to arrays, and arrays of numeric values at that, strikes me
> as completely arbitrary.

Here is an example of two dimentional Numeric array and it's indexing:
 
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> reshape(arange(9), (3,3))
array([[0, 1, 2],
       [3, 4, 5],
       [6, 7, 8]])
>>> a = reshape(arange(9), (3,3))
>>> a[1][0]
3
>>> a[1,0]
3
>>> a[(1,0)]
3

So currently indexing with sequence has a settled meaning of
multidimensional indexing if lists and tuples would allow indexing by
sequence, than either:

1. it might be confused with multidimensional indexing of numeric
   types (the same notion for two different things)

2. it will require rework of multidimensional indexing maybe with your
   semicolon notion, but will introduce incompatibilities (back and
   forward)

>
> The bottom line is that python claims to be simple but has a syntax
> which, in this little corner at least, is neither simple nor regular:
> xranges and slices are both sequence abstractions but are used in
> different contexts and have different syntaxes; C-style arrays are
> treated differently than lists of lists of ..., although they are
> conceptually equivalent; numeric structures are treated differently
> than non-numeric ones etc etc
>

With multidimensional arrays and list of lists you may both write
a[i][j], so it is consistent, with arrays you may write a[i,j] if you
know that you have an 2-dim array in your hand.

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Sep 28 19:35:41 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:35:41 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it>
 <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it>
 <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com>
 <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com>
 <uy8w94wtz.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <lhacnvksb6ppje2lfogrqhv30rbcahgil2@4ax.com>
 <ulls92b18.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <136envcoppkt546p8rhjhpeqkj380a3g40@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uu16w1o6q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

> On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:22:11 -0400, David Abrahams
> <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:
>
>>Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>>Sorry, what specialization?
>>>
>>> Presumably template specialisation - such that the special case of
>>> std::pair<T,T> picks up the iterating functionality that
>>> std::pair<T,U> lacks (begin, end etc). That is what I thought you were
>>> saying.
>>>
>>> Or am I still getting this wrong?
>>
>>Yeah, slightly.  You don't need a begin() member function in order to
>>make an iterator.  The interface might look like:
>>
>>  std::for_each(pair_iterator<T>(my_pair), pair_iterator<T>(), f);
>>
>>Decoupling is the way to go, man! :^)
>
> Ah - I get it! - std::pair doesn't exactly support iteration itself,
> but a support class can be used to add that capability.
>
> You can do this in any language. 

Yes; I never implied otherwise.

> For instance, did you know that Python classes supports iterating
> through the subset of their attribute that have names beginning with
> "a", interleaved with insults? 

I never, anywhere, said "std::pair supports..."

> Yes, all you need is to use this
> generator...
>
>   def A_Attrib_Gen (p_Instance) :
>     for i in dir (p_Instance) :
>       if i[0] = "a" :
>         yield i
>         yield "stupid stupid stupid"
>
> Well, OK, maybe this is a little unfair - this generator isn't exactly
> in the library, but with a little luck you see my point.

Your sarcasm is briefly amusing, but unwarranted.

> When you say "you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual
> C++ iterator protocol" it implies to me that std::pair<T,T> provides
> the iterator protocol itself

Hey, it's not my fault you read what you want to see into what I
posted.

>  - not that some other class provides a
> way to support iteration over the pair. After all, there is *always*
> some way to support iteration of *anything*.
>
> But maybe I'm just being overliteral.

No, you just don't know what "the usual iterator protocol" means.  It
has to do with the protocol for using iterators, and begin()/end() are
nowhere in the iterator requirements.  They're part of the container
requirements.  There are many iterators that have nothing to do with
containers and have never been passed through a begin()/end().
Pointers to built-in arrays are one obvious example.

This whole discussion started out talking about what the Python
protocol for manipulating iterators should be.  The fact that
iterators must themselves have an __iter__ method in Python may just
be making this more confusing than it needs to be.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep  9 05:51:33 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:51:33 +0200
Subject: GUI
In-Reply-To: <3f5d9fad$0$31720$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>
References: <3f5d9fad$0$31720$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <3F5DA2A5.4090006@ghaering.de>

daniel wrote:
> [...] I've found a tiny script in the net with
> throws an error, that the modules 'GUI' is
> not known - in this line
> 'import GUI, struct'

struct is a standard module, while GUI is not. I am not even aware of a 
third-party module that's called 'GUI'.

> In the net I haven't found a GUI module -
> where I can get it?

Your script was probably part of a larger application that has a GUI 
module or package. So your best bet is to search wherever you found the 
original script, and if that doesn't succeed, try to contact the author 
of the script.

-- Gerhard




From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Fri Sep 19 14:25:23 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:25:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
Message-ID: <53332.199.169.240.132.1063995923.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-


I need to make a class for quartlerly dates.  I need to be able to compare
two quarterly dates and get the number of quarters between them.  For
example:

>>> 2001q1 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=1)
>>> 2001q4 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=4)
>>> 2001q4 - 2001q1
3

The only problem is that I have no idea how to override operators in
python.  Can anyone give me a few trivial examples of how it is done?

And, on a completely unrelated note, I am getting a truly amazing amount
of spam today.  Anyone else?


Thanks for the help.




From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Sun Sep  7 01:36:03 2003
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 05:36:03 -0000
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2003-09-06, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
> Well, when someone "loses it" and ignorantly mistakes you for the
> devil, what would you rather see in their hand, a cocked "45" or a
> banana?

    No, that isn't the question.  The question is when someone breaks
into my home which do I want more in my hand, a .45 (is a caliber, not a
quote) or a banana.  i

    Do this simple test.  Get an egg timer (or any other timing device).
Now set it to 4, maybe 5 minutes.  Now lock yourself in the closet.
While there imagine dying.  Imagine someone gutting you.  Imagine
someone shooting you in the fact, your brains leaking out.  Imagine the
last vision you have is being raped or someone you loved being raped.
If you have kids imagine them having their arms broken, guts torn apart,
necks snapped.  Go ahead.  Do it.  Once you done it answer me this one
question:

    In those 4 minutes in that closet, hiding, scared, alone, praying
for someone to come to save you how does legislation protect you and
your loved ones from violence?  In that time between you *MAYBE* getting
a call to the police and them actually arriving when you could die which
would you rather do, fight or die?  

    What you've all missed is that violence still happens.  The
criminals who are so willing to rape, steal, break-in, murder and in
general be far more unpleasant as the 2nd paragraph of this message
aren't going to suddenly stop and say, "Hey, you know, owning a gun is
ILLEGAL, I shouldn't do that while killing, raping, stealing and being
an all around naughty person!"

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------



From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 15 16:07:11 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: irritating problem
In-Reply-To: <20030915200024.48393.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030915200711.8449.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com>

One thing I just thought of, it could be that when running with a shortcut your current
directory isn't what you expect.

Here's a modified script that outputs the current directory as well.

import os, sys
f = open('outfile.txt', 'w')
for item in os.environ.items() + sys.path:
    print>>f, item
print>>f, "current dir", os.getcwd()
f.close()



--- Jeremy Dillworth <jwdillworth at yahoo.com> wrote:
> You could create a shortcut to python.exe, then modify the 
> shortcut, adding your script to the command line.
> 
> I'm pretty sure windows will view Python.exe as a "DOS" program,
> so it in the shortcut properties box it'll have like 5 tabs 
> or so.  One of them should contain a checkbox which reads something
> like 'close DOS box when finished'.  Unless MS has change that dialog
> in XP....
> 
> Sorry, my windoze skills are a little rusty :)
> 
> Another option might be to write a script like this:
> 
> import os, sys
> f = open('outfile.txt', 'w')
> for item in os.environ.items() + sys.path:
>     print>>f, item
> f.close()
> 
> Run the script in the 3 ways you mentioned (changing name of outfile.txt
> in between runs) and then check for differences in the 3 files generated.
> 
> My guess would be it's something with sys.path, but you might
> as well check environ was well :)
> 
> 
> --- Park997 <park997 at aol.comnotospam> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have a script that runs correctly in IDLE, runs correctly when invoked in the
> > Command Prompt (Win XP), runs correctly from Komodo, but flashes a black box
> > too fast to see when the icon is double clicked and produces no output. There
> > are no error meassages from any of the methods that produce output. All of the
> > other modules in the same directory (these are imported to the problem module)
> > work correctly in any start mode.
> > 
> > python 2.3.
> > 
> > Obviously this isn't a disaster, but it "bugs" me. Is there a fix or method of
> > obtaining diagnostic information on this?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Wendell Cropper
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Sep 18 07:41:51 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:41:51 +0200
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkc5lv$5c4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Kasper B. Graversen wrote:
> Having played with Smalltalk for the past month, I'm getting used to
> passing code as arguments to methods... how easy is it to do this in
> python? I haven't seen any recent postings on this subject here...

There is no direct equivalent of code blocks in Python. Use Callables
instead. Callables are

- functions
def mywrite (text):
    sys.stdout.write (text)
variable = mywrite
variable ('printed text')

- bound methods, a method bound to a specific object
variable = sys.stdout.write
variable ('printed text')

- lambda, unnamed functions, which can contain only one expression
variable = lambda text: sys.stdout.write (text)
variable ('printed text')

- classes implementing the __call__ method
class Writer:
    def __call__ (self, text):
        sys.stdout.write (text)
variable = Writer ()
variable ('printed text')

Daniel






From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Wed Sep 17 19:27:50 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:27:50 -0400
Subject: how to write-protect names
In-Reply-To: <3F68D53B.CE7DF693@engcorp.com>
References: <3F68C499.1060604@aon.at>
	<3F68C60C.AC611276@engcorp.com>
	<3F68CE89.20601@aon.at>
	<3F68D53B.CE7DF693@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030917192750.5db38989.python@sarcastic-horse.com>

Can you post a trivial example of how to use __setattr__() and how to
set the namespace in the interpreter?

Thanks.


On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:42:19 -0400
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Gregor Lingl wrote:
> > 
> > Peter Hansen schrieb:
> > 
> > > What exactly do you need this for?  If you describe the purpose
> > > you have in mind for it we can provide the best approach, or
> > > tell you that we don't think you should bother. ;-)
> > >
> > > -Peter
> > 
> > I'm writing a module for teaching young students. It contains
> > e. g. a function width, which assigns a value to some (hidden)
> > variable:
> > 
> >  >>> width(5)
> > 
> > Now my experience is, that from time to time some of my
> > students write (erroneously)
> > 
> >  >>> width = 5
> > 
> > which renders the function width unaccessible for future
> > use. 
> 
> Ah, good.  In that case the answer is fairly simple.  You
> cannot "write-protect" the name in the main module, but you
> could use your own namespace for the methods such as width(),
> putting them in something that looks like a module but is 
> really an object with a __setattr__() method which prevents
> "overwriting" any of the existing names.  Maybe util.width()
> or something like that.
> 
> The fundamental issue is really that names are merely labels
> for the things themselves, and can be rebound at will.  The
> students aren't really overwriting anything, and the original 
> width() method still exists (if any other binding to it exists
> anywhere), they are simply making the label "width" reference
> a different object and you can't that without providing your
> own interactive environment, I suspect.
> 
> (And as a result, you still can't stop the students from binding
> the name "util" to something else and still screwing up the above,
> but perhaps you can trust the students not to do this if you
> demonstrate it and explain why it's a bad idea.)
> 
> -Peter
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Sep  7 13:26:07 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 19:26:07 +0200
Subject: in Ram database?
In-Reply-To: <20030905203058.179d9630.wtrenker@shaw.ca>
References: <v03110742bb7da1ba2767@[192.168.0.2]>
	<20030905203058.179d9630.wtrenker@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3F5B6A2F.1090907@ghaering.de>

William Trenker wrote:
> Here is a simple [PySQLite] example:
> 
> import sqlite   #module name exposed by the PySQLite wrapper
> conn = sqlite.connect(db=':memory:')   #special connect string to open an in-memory db

Please use 'database' or just use an unnamed parameter instead of a 
named one. 'db' is deprecated.

> cursor = conn.cursor()  #standard DB-API-2 from this point
> cursor.execute('create table test (a varchar, b int);')

No need for using semicolons in SQLite statements with the Python 
DB-API. Don't be surprised if you create problems this way.

> cursor.execute('commit;') #end PySQLite implicit transaction

If you use the Python DB-API, use the .commit() and .rollback() methods 
on the connection object. If you invoke COMMIT/ROLLBACK using 
.execute(), except the unexpected.

> cursor.execute('begin transaction;')  #wrap the inserts in an explicit transaction for speed
> for i in range(0,10000):
>     cursor.execute('insert into test (a,b) values (%s,%i);'%(str(i),i))
> cursor.execute('commit;')
> cursor.execute('select sum(b) from test;')
> print cursor.fetchall()[0][0]

Yuck! What's the point of all this building connections manually crap?

Also, what's the point of working around the DB-API way of quoting 
parameters with .execute()? The DB-API modules will quote parameters 
correctly for you, be it string, int, float or whatever else the backend 
supports. This works by *not* using the Python % quote operator, but by 
using a second parameter to .execute() which will hold a tuple with the 
parameters to be inserted. So the correct example would look something like:

#v+
import sqlite
cx = sqlite.connect(":memory:")
cu = cx.cursor()
cu.execute("create table test(a varchar, b int)")
for i in xrange(10000):
     cu.execute("insert into test(a, b) values (%s, %s)", (str(i), i))
     # Please use %s for all parameter types in PySQLite
cx.commit()
cu.execute("select sum(b) as RESULTCOLUMN from test")
print cu.fetchone()[0]
# PySQLite extension: print cu.fetchone().RESULTCOLUMN
cx.close()
#v-

Btw. for mass inserts you can use .executemany(), which with some DB-API 
modules is more efficient than calling .execute() in a loop.

Like all Python DB-API modules whose backends support transactions, 
PySQLite uses transactions transparently. All you have to do is 
.commit() or .rollback() on the connection object.

PySQLite does have an option to disable transparent transaction 
management for those who think they must shoot themselves in the foot. 
Those should use the parameter autocommit=0 in the sqlite.connect() call.

-- Gerhard




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Sep  5 22:13:03 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:13:03 -0400
Subject: list to string
References: <bjbfdu$hjsrl$1@ID-95936.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1ob6b.4134$I_2.601166@news20.bellglobal.com>

>>> vals = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc']
>>> ', '.join(vals)
'aaa, bbb, ccc'






From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Sep  6 23:34:25 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:34:25 -0700
Subject: Why python???
References: <3335321.1062775466@dbforums.com> <mbx6b.1996$Yt.953@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <eppstein-626068.20342506092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mbx6b.1996$Yt.953 at newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
 Johann Hibschman <jhibschman at yahoo.com> wrote:

> >     I think many people spend time on Java and university uses
> >     Java because Sun Microsystem spends much money to promote and
> >     develop the Java language.
> 
> Actually, in my experience, students will complain endlessly if they 
> have to use a language that they don't think will immediately get them a 
> job.  So, usage of C, C++, and Java is probably student-driven, not 
> faculty-driven.

I don't remember any discussion of student fears about relevance the 
last few times the issue of which language to use came up at faculty 
meetings.  Employability of our graduates, yes, but student bitching, no.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Sep  7 14:39:31 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 18:39:31 GMT
Subject: Question on Standard Types
References: <mailman.1062951612.13844.python-list@python.org> <vlmq6piom4r2c5@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bjfu13$9ob$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:18:57 -0400, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"hostmaster" <alpot at mylinuxsite.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1062951612.13844.python-list at python.org...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm quite new to Python and I am reading this book called 'Core Python
>> Programming' by Wesley J. Chun.  I think that this is not a new book but
>> I believe some of the points are still valid.
>>
>> There is this part in the book where it says:
>>
>> "In Python, standard types are not classes, so creating integers and
>> strings does not involve instantiation".
I think that is out of date.

>>
>> But later in the book, it talks about 'numeric objects' created when a
>> numeric literal is assigned to a reference.
>>
>> So my question now is, if standard types are objects, shouldn't they
>> have classes as well ? Isn't it that a class is the blueprint of an
>> object? If they don't have a class to begin with, how are these objects
>> created?
By "standard types" you mean int and str etc.? Try interactive help for sume suggestive info:

 >>> help(int)
 Help on class int in module __builtin__:

 class int(object)
  |  int(x[, base]) -> integer
  |
  |  Convert a string or number to an integer, if possible.  A floating point
  |  argument will be truncated towards zero (this does not include a string
  |  representation of a floating point number!)  When converting a string, use
  |  the optional base.  It is an error to supply a base when converting a
  |  non-string. If the argument is outside the integer range a long object
  |  will be returned instead.
  |
  |  Methods defined here:
  |
  |  __abs__(...)
  |      x.__abs__() <==> abs(x)
  |
  |  __add__(...)
  |      x.__add__(y) <==> x+y
  |
 
  ...
  (etc.)

 >>> help(str)
 Help on class str in module __builtin__:

 class str(basestring)
  |  str(object) -> string
  |
  |  Return a nice string representation of the object.
  |  If the argument is a string, the return value is the same object.
  |
  |  Method resolution order:
  |      str
  |      basestring
  |      object
  |
  |  Methods defined here:
  |
  |  __add__(...)
  |      x.__add__(y) <==> x+y

  ...
  (etc.)

>
>He's trying to make a fairly subtle point. At least, it's subtle until
>you get into the nuts and bolts.
>
>The point is that class instances are a single type, regardless of
You don't mean instances of classes are a single type, I assume. You mean
classes themselves are instances of a single type class, right?
(Except old-style classes, which are of type classobj).

>the class. So while it's perfectly true to say what he did, it has
I don't know how you are reading it. It seems out of date to me.

>very little practical meaning unless you attempt to do an operation
>on, say, an integer that depends on something that's unique to
>an instance.

You can now subclass int and str etc., which has real and practical meaning though.
And it's a pretty strong indication that int and str are classes of some kind ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep  1 17:23:22 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 23:23:22 +0200
Subject: error when xml.dom parse file encoded in ISO-8859-15
References: <pan.2003.09.01.13.24.19.404379@harobed.org>
Message-ID: <m3ptikp5it.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Harobed <stephane at harobed.org> writes:

> I have a xml file encode in ISO-8859-15. When xml.dom parse this file, it
> send this error : xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid
> token): line 9, column 46
> 
> Line 9 content some accent char. I would like solve this error.

You should correct the error in your XML file, by adding an xml header
to it.

Regards,
Martin




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep  2 11:35:45 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:35:45 -0400
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vl9e5rcr65ep50@news.supernews.com>

"Mike Henley" <mnhenley at msn.com> wrote in message
news:6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78 at posting.google.com...
> I first came across rebol a while ago; it seemed interesting but then
> i was put off by its proprietary nature, although the core of the
> language is a free download.
>
> Recently however, i can't help but say i was totally impressed. I
> needed an open source wikiblog/wikilog, whatever you wanna call it,
> basically a hybrid of a blog and a wiki. I checked out snipsnap, which
> uses java, it was said on their site to be a clone of vanilla, a
> wikilog written with rebol. I wanted an open source thing so i could
> modify it to my needs.
>
> snipsnap turned out to be, even apparent on the first day of use, way
> too far from being mature and reliable, and although they said it
> doesn't require a server, it required a download of the sun java sdk,
> which, when installed, was well over 400Mbs of space on my hard drive.
> Not to mention another over 100Mbs for the JVM.
>
> So as i needed a mature enough solution, but liked the way snipsnap
> worked, i looked around, and on freshmeat i found vanilla, with a
> development status of 5; production/stable. I went to its site, where
> a working demo impressed with its capabilities. The site is though
> poorly documented, very poorly documented i had to use trial and error
> to work out how to install it. Anyhow, what impressed me was that the
> download, which was less than half a megabyte, installed vanilla,
> which is the wikilog, an apache server, and the rebol interpreter,
> which is the free download version. And it self-installed! It turned
> out to be a very very capable wikilog, and highly extensible. I am
> still amazed and impressed by it after a couple of days of use.
>
> Rebol itself seemed a very easy to read language. Sorta like ho
> readable SQL is. I might even say more readable than python or ruby,
> or at least as readable.
>
> I have the intention to learn it over the coming few days, at least to
> customize vanilla to my needs.
>
> So i ask you guys, what's wrong with Rebol? i mean other than it's
> proprietary nature. 'cos anyway, there are many commercial IDEs for
> open source languages, and if smitten enough i might even consider a
> rebol SDK. It just amazes me for how readable it is, how much it seems
> to enable to do with so little code, and the size and capability of
> the final solution.
>
> What's wrong with Rebol?

I don't know that there's anything "wrong" with it, other than
it's a special purpose language designed to fit in one niche,
and do its job well (at least in the eyes of its designers.)
I'm not about to download a humongous reference manual
to compare it with Python. If it serves your needs, go for it.

John Roth





From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Sep 11 20:24:10 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:24:10 -0700
Subject: Web server with Python
In-Reply-To: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com>
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030912002410.GF2085@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Patrick Useldinger (p.useldinger at myrealbox.com):
> Webserver:
> - Medusa
> - Twisted
> - Zope
> Which one is the easiest to work with? Which one is known to work on an
> AIX 5.1 platform, for instance?

Medusa is pretty low-level. It's really just a server framework with
not much in the way of form handling or other niceties.

Zope is pretty high-level. It's at its best in doing content
management, and does a decent job of being an appserver. Its biggest
shortcomings, in my disreputable opinion, are its use of an object
database and its innovative features.

The object database makes it hard to edit stuff except in the web
interface. Several of the innovative features -- security roles, user
authorization, and acquisition to name a few -- make serious,
highly-dynamic development under Zope challenging. You are effectively
learning the intricacies of a highly-evolved application. On the other
hand, if your applications fit into typical categories -- content
management, information publishing, forums, etc -- Zope has lots of
pre-built tools that you can use.

Also, it really depends on how dynamic your "dynamic" is. A friend of
mine runs a job database: not too many writes to the DB and lots of
reads from it, a couple common data types. Zope would be okay for his
stuff. I work on a site where every user submits a profile, and lots
of information is exchanged between users, and every page's content is
entirely different based on the current user's nest of objects. We had
to punch a hole in the side of Zope and we suffer from performance
problems due to the highly dynamic content.

I've looked at Twisted but not used it. It's got some of the low-level
features that Medusa does, but it's also got some of the higher-level
form handling and such that you get out of Zope. It's worth a look.

Also worth a look is WebWare. I've only done a little bit with
WebWare, but it's very similar in architecture and execution to the
Java Servlet API. If I were starting from scratch, that would be my
toolkit of choice for a highly stateful, highly dynamic app.

I can't speak to AIX. You might be the first to try some of these on
those platforms. My advice in those cases is to look at the stuff that
uses as little C code as possible, because gauging portability isn't
too easy.

> Persistent storage
> - Is ZODB easily usable from outside Python, i.e. to produce reports
> without reverting to programming?

No. ZODB is an object database. You put objects in and build your own
indexes to those objects. You get them out the same way you put them
in. ZODB is easily usable from /inside/ Python though: it does not
require you to explicitly handle the object-to-relational mapping that
a SQL database will.

> - Is MySQL with Python a good combination?

I can't comment on MySQL directly, because I've used it only a little
from Python. SQL in general suffers from the difficulty that you need
to write the queries to store and retrieve your objects from the
databse yourself: that process is called object-to-relational mapping,
and it's hard to do well and easy to do in ways you'll regret later.
But, the SQL databases are easily accessible from a quadrillion other
tools that can do reporting for you.

Hope this helps,
--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts                        "I think doorways are sexist."
<geoff at gerrietts net>                           --Jayson Lockwood




From nospam at here.com  Thu Sep 11 16:52:59 2003
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:52:59 +0100
Subject: tkinter, sockets and threads together
References: <79ad5955.0309111133.5f6bf26f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1063313355.26667.0@iris.uk.clara.net>

> i read that it is bad to use threads with tkinter.  so my question is
> how does one create a gui program with sockets?  at one point you have
> to call mainloop() which does not return.  then you are not free to do
> stuff with the sockets.
>

Take a look at
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/gui.html#can-i-have-tk-events-handled-while-wa
iting-for-i-o


RT






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep 25 19:34:48 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:34:48 -0400
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn67fhhom95896@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <i9udncq3O7YH5u6iXTWJhg@comcast.com>

"Michael Geary" <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote in message
news:vn67fhhom95896 at corp.supernews.com...
> Mark Jackson wrote:
> > (This happens to be the *reverse* of what my intuition expects -
it
> > would seem more natural if the syntax meant "do this for loop to
> > completion, else do this extra stuff," but this is the way it is
and
> > one must simply remember it.)
>
> I'm with you there--the use of "else" here has seemed a bit
confusing to me.

How I plan to remember now: if the abnormal exit is a return or
exception, then all code end of for block, including any else part, to
the end of the function or try block will be skipped, so else part can
only apply to normal exit.

Terry J. Reedy





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 12:51:45 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:51:45 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <r2Qbb.195$eB.185@twister.southeast.rr.com> <18kvmvobs9jsq50o91m35cveu49heev7mh@4ax.com> <oprvxtxmiq5ctagx@shawnews> <m2zngvsstb.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <beu0nv4r4con888eubjhj9id977sl60g4t@4ax.com>

On 23 Sep 2003 06:27:44 -0400, Heather Coppersmith <me at privacy.net>
wrote:

>Don't forget that values other than "True" are true, too
>(shamelessly stolen from a previous post from Tim Peters):
>
>    # basic file iteration (which can be done in other ways, but
>    # simply demonstrates my point)
>    while "there is another line in the file":
>        nextlinefromfile = getnextlinefromfile( )
>        if not nextlinefromfile:
>            break
>        moresprocessing( )

Thanks - to you and Tim - score 1 for self-documenting code!


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk  Fri Sep  5 11:04:30 2003
From: neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk (Neil Padgen)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:04:30 +0000
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <bja8ls$k1j$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

On Thursday 04 September 2003 20:35, Richard Wesley wrote:

> I have a unit test suite for our server that loads a clean database
> image for many of the tests.  I use
> 
> p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
> p.write(sql_commands)

Your pipe is still open at this point, and therefore you have a
connection to the database open.

> So my question would be, is there any way to shut down the child
> process so that MySQL notices and cleans up after itself before it
> runs out of threads?

p.close()

-- Neil



From mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com  Sun Sep 21 16:24:22 2003
From: mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:24:22 -0400
Subject: Download to client from a cgi script?
In-Reply-To: <J_mbb.24430$os2.339970@news2.e.nsc.no>
References: <J_mbb.24430$os2.339970@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <20030921162422.25c26aa7.mwilson@sarcastic-horse.com>

If you want to trigger the browser to ask 'save this file?' then you
gotta pass it a Content-Type that will trigger that.

At the top of your cgi script, get rid of 'Content-Type: text/html\n\n'
and replace it with 'Content-Type: application/octet-stream' or
something like that.

This page:

http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/www/content-type.html

describes some IE bugs.  Good luck!  If you figure it all out, can you
post a message back here for future reference?




On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:28:46 +0200
?ystein Johansen <oystein at gnubg.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> (This question may be stupid, but I just can't find the answer...)
> 
> How can I make the browser downlaod a cgi script from /cgi-bin/. 
> Obviously I can't make a link to it with <a=href="/cgi-bin/script.cgi>, 
> since tha script will be executed then.
> 
> I see how Lutz in PP2E prints the script on the screen, but I want the 
> user to get the "save file" message box?
> 
> Same thing. What about a binary file? Printing a binary file with 
> getfile.cgi from PP2E is just silly. The surfer must be promped to save. 
> So, what I want is a script like getfile.cgi, that downloads insted of 
> prints the file.
> 
> 
> (Maybe this is more a HTTP/HTML question than a Python question...)
> 
> Clueless,
> -?ystein
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep 29 19:06:20 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 23:06:20 GMT
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <gandreas-21AC09.14161229092003@news.mpls.visi.com> <vnh8uh5j8e3i44@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bladtc$64r$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:27:39 -0500, "Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:

>> Perhaps using a proxy object...might work:
>
>Great idea!  Some complications:
>
>1. Sometimes the test "if not realApp:" causes unbounded recursion.  To
>avoid any possibility of this happening the startup code just creates the
>app object before any code actually uses the app proxies.  This is easily
>done.
1a. I suspect Glenn's code would also need a global realApp in the __getattr__ method,
or it would just keep seeing a global realApp==None and recreating the app instance
to a local realApp that disappears after its desired attribute is returned.
(BTW my version just let an exception happen if use was attempted before setting
the real app reference).
>
>2. A __call__ method in the proxy allows the code to use either app().x or
>app.x.
>
>In short, the following pattern appears like it will work in all my modules:
>
>from leoGlobals import *
>app = leoProxy() # leoProxy defined in leoGlobals
ISTM it would be safe to put the above line in leoGlobals at the top, after
the class definition, and then app would just come in with the import *,
so in general your modules will only need the one-line from leoGlobals import *.

(see my post for more info. BTW, I didn't see Glenn's post 'til after, honest ;-)

># Now the code can reference either app.x or app().x.
Cool. Gives you some backwards compatibility I guess.

>
>To do this, I use the following code:
>
Since the code is only executed once on import, I think you could put this
at the top of leoGlobals

>gApp = None # Set before any reference to proxy.
>class leoProxy:
>  def __getattr__(self,attr):
>    return getattr(gApp,attr)
>  def __call__(self):
>    return gApp
(Unlike Glenn's code, this doesn't need a global gApp declaration).

and then at the bottom of leoGlobals you could do (untested)
   gApp = __import__('leoApp').leoApp()

Or you could (untested) even do it later from somewhere else as
   leoGlobals.gApp = __import__('leoApp').leoApp()

>
>Many thanks for this great idea.

I should've just blurted and not fooled with testing, I guess ;-)

Actually, I wonder whether the snap-shot effect you seem to get in
a secondary module's import of the module whose import code you are in
the middle of executing is something one can depend on in detail not to change.
(though I'm not sure what kind of change could be reasonable ;-)

And what happens if there are side effects from the secondary activity
that puts something in the module globals -- will that show up in subsequent
imports immediately? I guess it comes down to whether import locks in a
module instance and ties it to sys.modules immediately, so its state can
be modified and viewed incrementally. It seems so. I guess the dict involved
is the environment that the imported module code gets executed in.

Further .02USD are in my other post ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it  Thu Sep  4 03:22:39 2003
From: max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it (Max Ischenko)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:22:39 +0300
Subject: Interoperability between VB and Python under ASP
In-Reply-To: <bb536467.0309031055.2fe6a661@posting.google.com>
References: <bj46f2$kk2$1@voodoo.volia.net> <bb536467.0309031055.2fe6a661@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj6p59$emv$1@voodoo.volia.net>


> I've mostly done option 3, converting what I needed to Python. It
> results in a lot cleaner code (you can't mix html elements and code
> very well, for example, in vb you can put a for loop around a section
> of HTML, whereas in Python you can't) and the time it took to convert
> the code (not much, really, it's a pretty clean port in most cases)
> has been more than paid back in maintainability.

That's sounds encouraging, thanks. I'd probably go this route.



-- 
Regards, Max.




From cygwin-help at cygwin.com  Fri Sep  5 12:42:17 2003
From: cygwin-help at cygwin.com (cygwin-help at cygwin.com)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 16:42:17 -0000
Subject: confirm unsubscribe from cygwin@cygwin.com
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Sep 26 17:28:02 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:28:02 -0400
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com>

"Roberto A. F. De Almeida" <roberto at dealmeida.net> wrote in message
news:10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a at posting.google.com...
> I found that when using negative indices, the slice object passed to
> __getitem__ depends on the number of slices. An example to clarify:
>
>class a:
>    def __getitem__(self, index):
>         return index
>
> >>> b = a()
> >>> print b[:-1]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: a instance has no attribute '__len__'
>
> But if I pass a "multiple" slice:
>
> >>> print b[:-1,:-1]
> (slice(None, -1, None), slice(None, -1, None))

A square-bracketed subscript (index/key) is a *single* object, in this
case a tuple.  The contents of the tuple are irrelevant (for this
code).  Any  tuple will be echoed:

>>> b[1,2,3]
(1, 2, 3)

> If we add the following __len__ to class a:
>
>     def __len__(self):
>         return 42

Completely irrelevant for the processing of tuple keys.

> Is there something wrong in using slices like this in objects? A
> better way?

What you probably want is b[:-1][:-1], etc.  Each index must be
separately bracketed to access items in list of lists (etc).

Terry J. Reedy





From pxtl at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 17 22:49:53 2003
From: pxtl at hotmail.com (martin z)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 02:49:53 GMT
Subject: Graphic python debugger
References: <20030917120146.3c5202e2.max@fr.fm> <vmgtbe70t1nm5c@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <l39ab.487708$4UE.275415@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

> GNU DDD is a graphical front-end for command-line debuggers such as GDB,
> DBX, WDB, Ladebug, JDB, XDB, the Perl debugger, or the Python debugger.
>                                                 ^^^^^^

A little offtopic, but you wouldn't happen to know if DDD + GDB can handle
Ada?  I know that GDB can do Ada code, but I don't know how well a front-end
could handle Ada's idiosynchrosies if its expecting GDB to be used with C.





From fumanchu at amor.org  Tue Sep 30 12:54:16 2003
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:54:16 -0700
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E1F6B51@opus.HQAMOR.amorhq.net>

> note that module names are stored fully qualified in sys.modules so
the try
> clause in your will always fail with modules like os.path....
> __import__() does a lookup in sys.modules so that you need not recode
it.

Thanks! I think that try: block was left over from an older version
which used imp.find_module and .load_module. Now that I'm not splitting
out the module name, I also don't need to have two __import__ calls.
Finally, I sped up the initial parsing with rfind() and slicing.

def get_func(fullFuncName):
    """Dynamically load a module and retrieve reference to the function
(NOT an instance)."""
    
    # Parse out the path, module, and function
    lastDot = fullFuncName.rfind(".")
    funcName = fullFuncName[lastDot + 1:]
    modPath = fullFuncName[:lastDot]
    
    aMod = __import__(modPath, globals(), locals(), [''])
    aFunc = getattr(aMod, funcName)
    
    # Assert that the function is a *callable* attribute.
    if not callable(aFunc): raise AssertionError("%s is not callable." %
fullFuncName)
    
    # Return a reference to the function itself, not the results of the
function.
    return aFunc

> Maybe you should raise a TypeError rather than an ImportError to
indicate
> that what is expected to be a function is not callable.

How about an AssertionError, since it's only included for programmers,
not users?


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep 22 08:50:24 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:50:24 -0500
Subject: Mutable strings
In-Reply-To: <2ZBbb.100213$hE5.3539928@news1.tin.it>
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org> <6e990e29.0309220251.51fa648d@posting.google.com> <2ZBbb.100213$hE5.3539928@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <20030922125024.GE32482@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 12:31:58PM +0000, Alex Martelli wrote:
> But, there IS one!  So, hat's wrong with it...?!

People seem to love to have literals for things.  Otherwise, they feel
that a type is second-class.

Jeff




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Sep 15 14:22:04 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:22:04 -0700
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
References: <mailman.1063644809.12116.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-007310.11220415092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1063644809.12116.python-list at python.org>,
 Rob Hunter <rhunter007 at yahoo.com> wrote:
...
> I'm simply trying to learn to write in Python in
> a way that I will find tolerable.  I really like
> a lot of it, so far, and I find it fun to write
> it, and very pretty and easy to read.  
> 
> In general, in most cases, I find it
> *unacceptable* to use mutation.  And, since
> Python is very much a Scheme-like language, and
> has functional components (like map, and
> uh...functions :) with proper scoping) I think
> that this is quite a reasonable thing to want. 
> The trick is knowing when mutation happens, so
> that the programmer is aware when s/he is
> entering a scary land where things may not be
> what they seem.  And it seems from your
> references and my tests that the "=" operator is
> mutative.  In Scheme there's no issue..you
> introduce a binding with LET and you mutate a
> binding with SET!.  In Python, the way I see it,
> you introduce a binding with "=" and you mutate a
> binding with "=".

I sympathize, to some degree.  I agree that this feature,
call it mutation or as Python users would say "rebinding",
has the potential to make it harder to reason about code.

I am not convinced though that Python is so very much like
Scheme, nor that the resemblance would be grounds for Python
to go ahead and make all of Scheme's mistakes.  Scheme users
can continue to glory in their shining example of the
perfectability of computing languages, because Python is
just not like Scheme in this respect, and more in general
is not a functional programming language.  If you like the
FP features that have been strapped onto it, that's great,
many people do, but you don't make a donkey into a marine
mammal by strapping on flotation.  And for that matter it
isn't clear that it's an overall improvement for the donkey.

It's also not clear to me that Scheme gains an impressive
victory here in terms of reasoning about code, if it still
supports that pesky mutation.  Is this sort of a kitchen
sink language that tries to support every possible thing?
If you like the FP route, wouldn't something like Haskell
be better, more rigorously pure functional?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From wmgill at wmgill.com  Fri Sep 12 13:32:47 2003
From: wmgill at wmgill.com (WmGill)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:32:47 -0400
Subject: date formatting
Message-ID: <bjsvn4$3j0$1@sun-news.laserlink.net>

I want to write a script that Among other things) renames a file based on
it's timestamp.
I can get the date info using
"strftime('%y%m%d',localtime(os.stat('thefile')[ST_MTIME])", but this seems
like a long way around the block.  Is there a more direct way?

Bill





From cfox at cfconsulting.ca  Sun Sep 21 07:31:40 2003
From: cfox at cfconsulting.ca (Colin Fox)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:31:40 GMT
Subject: XML/XSLT with Python
References: <mailman.1064090130.16541.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.21.11.31.39.746760@cfconsulting.ca>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:32:59 +0200, K. N. wrote:

> 
> Is there any good and fast Python module for XSLT
> processing ? I'm going to use XML and XSLT to generate
> web pages, so I need XSLT processor that will be able
> to transform for example a DOM object in memory - I 
> don't want to create XML file containing data and then
> load it and transform with XSLT, but I want to do 
> this at once - without writing to a temporary file. 
> Actually I've seen alot articles about parsing XML, 
> but nothing about creating XML documents and storing
> it as an object that will be passed to XSLT processor,
> and that is what I'm planning to do.
> I think its a quite good solution, but I have no idea
> which modules will be most suitable for this task.
> Does anyone have some experience in this matter and 
> could point me where should I look ?
> 
> Best regards,
>  K.

Here's a CGI I wrote to do this very thing.
It uses libxml2 & libxslt from the gnome libraries.
I wanted to make sure it was reasonably efficient, so I put a bunch of
timing code into it. It turns out that processing an XML file, and running
it through this XSLT processor is really fast.

I didn't bother to include page.xsl here, as it's actual contents are
irrelevant to the technique.

Enjoy!
  cf

------------------------
#! /usr/bin/env python
                                                                                
import time
st = time.time()
                                                                                
import libxml2, libxslt
import cgi, os, sys
                                                                                
query = cgi.FieldStorage()
                                                                                
readtimestart = time.time()
styledoc = libxml2.parseFile("page.xsl")
style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styledoc)
doc = libxml2.parseFile(query['script'].value)
readtimeend = time.time()
                                                                                
                                                                                
start_converting = time.time()
result = style.applyStylesheet(doc, None)
done_converting = time.time()
                                                                                
html = result.serialize()
                                                                                
print "Content-type: text/html"
print
print html
                                                                                
style.freeStylesheet()
doc.freeDoc()
result.freeDoc()
                                                                                
et = time.time()
totaltime = et-st
print "<!-- Page served in %s seconds. -->" % totaltime
print "<!-- XML conversion took %s seconds. -->" %\
    (done_converting-start_converting)
print "<!-- File reading took %s seconds. -->" %\
    (readtimeend-readtimestart)
                                                                                





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sun Sep 21 16:24:04 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:24:04 GMT
Subject: math.exp(complex)
References: <eppstein-78B907.13085621092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <ENnbb.10075$Uv2.662@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[David Eppstein]
> Why doesn't this work?
>
> >>> import math
> >>> math.exp(1j*math.pi)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use e.g. abs(z)
>
> The expected answer, of course, is -1.
>
> It does work if you do it like this:
>
> >>> math.e**(1j*math.pi)
> (-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)
>
> So why not math.exp(complex)?

Use the cmath module for complex ops:


>>> import cmath
>>> import math
>>> cmath.exp(1j*math.pi)

(-1+1.2246063538223773e-016j)


Raymond Hettinger





From jcribbs at twmi.rr.com  Thu Sep  4 08:01:06 2003
From: jcribbs at twmi.rr.com (Jamey Cribbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:01:06 GMT
Subject: test
Message-ID: <6QF5b.581$FJ5.34940@twister.columbus.rr.com>

Please disregard this message.




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sat Sep 27 20:32:28 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 00:32:28 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net> <mailman.1064580340.26537.python-list@python.org> <vijanv0lloncphml3mcjohgjukkv1eea4p@4ax.com> <bl4gtc$lmn$0@216.39.172.122> <ffsbnv8bb02kuit3q25rag1sdqhse2q13q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns940419D606C59JanC@213.118.75.228>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> schreef:

> I do remember that the non-deletable file was in a deeply nested set
> of pointless folders created by saving that web site.

IIRC that is or was a bug on (some) Windows versions: the path+filename you 
have to pass to the Delete File API function could be too long for the 
reserved string buffer length (256 bytes), or something like that...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From howard at eegsoftware.com  Thu Sep  4 23:10:17 2003
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 03:10:17 GMT
Subject: Starting point for unicode conversion
Message-ID: <Xns93ECCD3735B8Bhowardeegsoftwarecom@64.164.98.50>

I *foolishly* started a Python project (3 years ago) with considering 
Unicode issues.  Now, I want to resolve future problems with international 
versions of my software.

The key point here is Tkinter.  I believe (from reading this list) that I 
can expect that SOME returned text may be Unicode (depending on content and 
Windows locale settings).

Would it be best to just (somehow) force all text into Unicode or would it 
be "better" to handle specific instances?

I also have the problem of embedded text in data files I create that I have 
to store as *something* that I can fully recover and convert back to 
something reasonable even if the locale changes.

Any thoughts welcome .... this is something I am NOT looking forward to.

Thanks



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 01:07:21 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:07:21 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <Nc2dnbMyZd7uZ-2iU-KYhw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <6f52nvsobkkf2n3p6stum3ipd5cp96i3pv@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:59:15 -0400, Gordon Airport <uce at ftc.gov>
wrote:

>The point of do-while loops is that you don't need setup code anymore, 
>right? How about this:
>
>...
>dowhile <condition>:
>	<loop body>
>...
>
>where the body is run once before it becomes a standard while loop. It 
>looks like we all think of this structure as a "do-while loop", so the 
>expression is natural. This also makes it easy to change loop types - 
>just add or remove the "do". Slight downside is that the execution flow 
>isn't exactly as you read it.

This doesn't really solve the problem that the PEP aims to solve.

The setup code in the following example (from the PEP) is only *part*
of the code in the loop...

 do:
   <setup code>
 while <condition> :
   <loop body>

The condition is tested in the middle.

The precondition form duplicates the setup - this is what the PEP was
trying to avoid...

 <setup code>
 while <condition> :
   <loop body>
   <setup code>

But the postcondition-compliant form is really no better...

 do :
   <setup code>
   if <condition> :
     <loop body>
 until !<condition> :

(or if you insist)

 dowhile <condition> :
   <setup code>
   if <condition> :
     <loop body>

You're simply duplicating the condition instead of the setup code. As
loop conditions are often at least as complex as the setup code, there
is really no gain here.

In addition, the 'if' isn't explicitly a loop exit point - it's just a
nested structure that achieves the same effect - so it doesn't express
as clearly the intention behind the code.

The whole point of the syntax in the PEP is to have the loop condition
tested in the middle of the loop - something which in C (and current
Python) is handled badly by the unstructured 'break'.


Secondly, what the PEP suggests is not what most people think of as a
'do-while' loop. Anyone sufficiently familiar with C, C++, Java, ...
will see a 'do-while' loop as being postconditioned (much like
repeat-until in Pascal etc) - ie not having the loop condition tested
in the middle as the PEP proposes.


Finally, IMO execution order should match reading order unless there
is a *VERY* good reason to do differently.

Pascal, C and even Basic manage to show a precondition at the start of
a loop, but a postcondition at the end of a loop. I don't see any good
reason why Python can't follow suit.


IMO, a loop exit point should... (highest priority first)

  1.  Be written at the point where the condition is tested, such that
      execution order is the same as reading order.

      I don't want to see variables referenced in a condition that
      haven't even been defined yet, for instance. You see this as
      minor - I see it as *very* important.

  2.  To be clearly identifiable be its leading keyword(s), and in
      particular not be confusable with the start of a new structure.

      This is a problem with the C 'do ... while' - it isn't always
      clear that the 'while' is part of the 'do' loop rather than the
      start of a new 'while' loop. IMO we don't need this hassle in
      Python.

  3.  Be linked to the loop itself, much as 'else' is linked to 'if',
      by having the same indent level and the ':' marker at the end of
      the line.

      This is IMO relatively minor - I don't object that much to the
      existing 'if condition : break' - but I believe it is important
      to the PEP authors logic.


Basically, readability and maintainability are key obsessions of mine
(and pretty much anyone who has had to read and maintain large systems
written by other people).

I'm not really sure why people don't like 'break if' - but then of
course I don't, it is my invention ;-)

Maybe it's to do with the return to the indent level of the earlier
'while' - but then 'elif' and 'else' already do this in 'if' blocks.

More likely it is that bit in point 3 above - I think it is a good
idea for a loop exit point, but it isn't exactly normal practice. Adas
'exit when' is, as I mentioned, the closest match I know of.

Maybe 'break if' would end up being like a certain common reaction to
Pythons use of indentation for structuring (initial shock and disgust,
but growing to love it) or maybe I'm just wierd ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Tue Sep 16 18:11:07 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:11:07 -0300
Subject: Datetime utility functions
In-Reply-To: <k788leb0.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com> <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com> <brtl7s6v.fsf@yahoo.co.uk> <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com> <mailman.1063730723.18092.python-list@python.org> <k788leb0.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030916221106.GA7721@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> > you both use the same indirect way of getting to the end of the month.
> > why not do what datetime.c does, like:
> 
> Mainly because that seems even more like reinventing the wheel.
> Writing code that already exists is something I dislike doing at the
[...]

Why not using calendar.monthrange()?

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net




From dakidd at sonic.net  Thu Sep 25 17:25:27 2003
From: dakidd at sonic.net (Don Bruder)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:25:27 GMT
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
References: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net> <8yoc1wwt.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <b3Jcb.24430$dk4.777126@typhoon.sonic.net>

In article <8yoc1wwt.fsf at python.net>,
 Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:

> Don Bruder <dakidd at sonic.net> writes:
> 
> [rewriting a Python program in C/C++]
> > Something like this C construct:
> >
> > struct DictStruct
> >    {
> >       char    *KeyArray[<somenumber>];
> >       ValType ValArray[<somenumber>];
> >    }
> >
> [...]
> > Similarly, would something like:
> >
> > struct DictStruct
> >    {
> >       char Key[25];
> >       ValType Value;
> >       DictStruct *PrevDictEntry;
> >       DictStruct *NextDictEntry;
> >    }
> >
> > [...] end up behaving at least reasonably like a Python "dict"? 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Except that it would be less flexible, *much* slower, and
> probably much more buggy.
> 
> Thomas

Well, since I'm not worried about "flexible", have my doubts about the 
"much slower" part, and have no reason to believe that choice of 
language automatically makes a routine buggy, I'll go with the tenative 
plan I had. Seems you're confirming that I'm understanding things 
properly when it comes to "This is what a dict is, and here's how it 
works." Now to put finishing touches on my understanding of exactly what 
goes on inside that "black box" that is the "dict" 
class/type/whatever-it-is-you-Python-types-like-to-call-such-things, and 
make some working code out of it...

-- 
Don Bruder -  dakidd at sonic.net <--- Preferred Email - SpamAssassinated.
Hate SPAM? See <http://www.spamassassin.org> for some seriously great info.
I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
Fly trap info pages: <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html>



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Sep 25 14:38:20 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:38:20 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <AYwcb.2766$RW4.2047@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <wCGcb.3062$yU5.1076@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Andrew Dalke]
> However, the example code will work on a string, because list(string)
> returns a list, which does have a reverse.

Right.  I'll remove the comment.


> ] Extending slicing minimizes the code overhead but does nothing
> ] for memory efficiency, beauty, or clarity.
> I don't agree with all three of those.

Beauty and clarity are a matter of taste and we differ here.
To some (including me), s[::-1]  looks more like line noise
than s.iter_backwards().  Also, I think the word form is
more clear.  The situation becomes more acute when the
other indices have values.  Compare range[n-1, 0, -1] to
range(1, n-1).iterbackwards().  Whenever negative indicies
are used, it takes more knowledge of the implementation
rules to be able to read,write, understand, and verify the code.


> ] Should file objects be included? Implementing reverse iteration
> ] may not be easy though it would be useful on occasion.
>
> I would suggest no - the file may not be seekable.

Agreed.



> One thing to bear in mind is that the semantics are slightly
> different.
. . .
> That is only a very, very minor nit.  Feel free to ignore it :)

Agreed.  If finalizer call order is important, then the
'while elist: elist.pop()' form is the way to go.  If not,
then the for-loop is the way to go.


> The former is more terse, but the latter, existing code is
> broken down into bite-size chunks and allows verbose
> documentation of each step.  That isn't possible when
> nearly everything is written in one line.

Even the former can be broken down into more lines if
that is what is needed:

result.sort()
result = result[-n]
return [x for score, x in result.iter_backwards()]


> Also, a variant implementation may be even more concise,

You must be pretty confident to take on the Timbot's code  ;-)


> Later in your post you mention a reason against a function
> which uses __riter__ magic is that it is "slower than direct
> access to the underlying object."
>
> If that's a concern then you should also point out that using
> iter_backwards for cases like this is slower than the existing
> solution.  (It has an extra attr lookup and function call.  OTOH,
> doesn't the -1, -1 require two calls of the negative unary op
> code, or has that been fixed?  Good, it has, says dis on
> some test code.)

Yes, it's true.  All of the speed comments focus on the inner loop.
I'll reword to make that clear.  It is definitely an issue.  In Py2.2,
there was a generic sequence iterator that used __getitem__ in
iterators for lists and tuples.  In Py2.3, we went to a custom
iterator for each object.  There was a significant improvement
in performance.



> ] platform._dist_try_harder()
 . . .
> I think a better reformulation is
>
>       verfiles = os.listdir('/usr/lib/setup')
>       verfiles = [name for name in verfiles
>                                if name.startswith("slack-version-")]

I like your version better and recommend you submit it as a patch.
I'll take out the ifilter() comment.



> ] random.shuffle() uses for i in xrange(len(x)-1, 0, -1)
> This isn't a use case.  The xrange never returns a 0 while
> the iter_backwards one will.

It is an important use case.  The replacement code is:

  for i in xrange(1,len(x)). iter_backwards()

Whenever the indices have any complexity, the forwards version,
followed by .iter_backwards() is, IMHO, much easier to mentally verify.


> There were two intermediate 'reverse' proposals.  Here's the four
> I know about:

I'll try to add these without making the PEP as long as this thread ;-)


> I agree with the conclusion that the last three have unexpected
> interactions with mappings.  However, iter *also* has unexpected
> interactions with mappings.

Yes, but that doesn't make it less of a disadvantage.
The proposed list.iter_backwards() method does not have that
disadvantage.



> In your post list a set of problems with the function approaches.
...
> I would like to see this list added to the PEP.

Okay.  They are added.


>  I do have'
> some qualifiers for the list.
>
>   - it doesn't need to be a global function; it could be in,
>       say, itertools.  (I know I originally suggested it as a builtin,
>       but I'm not saying I'm right ;)

If there is to be a magic method, __riter__, then the access
function needs to be a builtin.  They go hand in hand.

BTW, don't underestimate the intensity of resistance to adding
new builtins.


>   - (see comments above that xrange(5).iter_backwards()
>       is likely slower than xrange(5, -1, -1) because of the
>       extra lookup and call)

Reworded it to talk only to the inner loop, "approaches using
__getitem__() are slower using a custom method for
each object."


>   - the first variant, which only looks for __riter__ and raises
>      an exception if it doesn't exist, has exactly the same problems
>      with infinite iterators as calling the new method.
>
>   - similarly, it doesn't have additional problems with mappings.

Okay, I've moved the comments around for you.


> Also, none of the use cases dealt with infinite sequences so
> the lack of appropriate support for them shouldn't be considered
> an outright rejection.

The use cases were just the ones I found in the library.
With generators and itertools being new, I expect
infinite iterators to become more common.

Also, I have a preference for creating something that
is as robust as possible.  Making a builtin function that
doesn't apply to all objects; behaves badly with mappings;
and crashes with an infinite iterator is not my idea of robust.

I really don't understand the overpowering urge to make this a function
and add a new magic method protocol.  Why isn't there a similar rage
against dict.iteritems()?

Perhaps, you'll like it better if the method is named ireverse()
instead of iter_backwards().


> BTW, my current belief is that if this PEP leads to code
> then it should be:
>   - a new function, either builtin or in itertools
>
>   - which uses __riter__ if present (unless we decide to
>       use the adapt PEP)
>
>   - else uses "for i in itertools.count(): yield[obj[-i]]"

Okay, we simply disagree here.  That's fine.

I appreciate the thoughtful comments and careful analysis.
They have helped clarify the pep wording and helped to
define the issues.


Raymond







From nicola-mingotti at libero.it  Wed Sep 17 12:51:59 2003
From: nicola-mingotti at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 18:51:59 +0200
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
References: <ef08387c.0309170801.4b299cf7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bka3if$8sj$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (Fortepianissimo) writes:

> I know I can do things like
> 
> s=Set(range(1,11))
> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))
> 
> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a list which then must
> be converted back to a set. Any tips? Thanks!

Can you ? 
I tried python2.3 and 2.2 and it replies
: "NameError: name 'Set' is not defined" .

There is a PEP but it seems it's steel 'under consideration'.
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0218.html

May be , if this proposal is accepted you
one day could write :
{ x for x in S if x%2 == 0 }   # S be a set .

bye.





From claird at lairds.com  Mon Sep  1 05:12:24 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:12:24 -0000
Subject: Language categories (was: Advice to a Junior in High School?)
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <rqy2b.1796$_F1.202013@news20.bellglobal.com> <tyfsmno989n.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <sDJ2b.1909$_F1.271943@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <vl63bokhnobnee@corp.supernews.com>

In article <sDJ2b.1909$_F1.271943 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>> "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> writes:
>>
>> > (Lisp, Dylan, Haskell, ocaml, or some other functional programming
>> > language).
			.
			.
			.
>Okay. "..., or some other language that supports functional programming
>style)" (which would include those mentioned, and many more besides). For
>instance,
>
>http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Functional/?tc=1
>Aleph (1)
>BETA (8)
>Caml (2)
>Clean (6)
>Dylan (19)    <
>Erlang (313)
>Haskell (48)    <
>Leda (5)
>Lisp (378)    <
>Logo (46)
>Lua (18)
>Mercury (4)
>Miranda (10)
>ML (35)
>Mozart (2)
>Objective Caml (5)    <
>Pliant (16)
>POP-11 (6)
>REBOL (95)
>Scheme (127)
>Sisal (12)
			.
			.
			.
Someone needs to talk with the googlers; REBOL and Dylan
are not functional languages.  And Lisp ... well, Lisp is
universal, so let's let that pass.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 13:43:38 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:43:38 -0500
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
In-Reply-To: <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75>
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org>
        <slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>
        <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75>
Message-ID: <16232.40266.46765.123060@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Fred> Yes, that's a wonderful feature. Recently though, I've wondered a
    Fred> couple of times : is there an easy way to substitute with both
    Fred> local AND global variables ?...

Sure, search the list archives for something like EvalDict.  Basically, you
want a class which behaves like a dict, but will search through multiple
dictionaries looking for matching keys.

Skip




From mymail.5.tth at spamgourmet.com  Tue Sep 23 13:47:51 2003
From: mymail.5.tth at spamgourmet.com (T.T.H.)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 10:47:51 -0700
Subject: questions about a C++ COM object accessed in Python via win32com
References: <e46a6e85.0309220727.c867ab4@posting.google.com> <VLEbb.101623$hE5.3572715@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <e46a6e85.0309230947.5a518545@posting.google.com>

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>

Praise you, Alex, that was the most precise answer I could have imagined!

Bye,
T.T.H.



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Sep 22 14:07:05 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:07:05 GMT
Subject: Playing with dictionaries
References: <10c662fe.0309220907.a84bea5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dTGbb.13436$Uv2.11050@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Roberto A. F. De Almeida]
> Suppose I have a dictionary containg nested dictionaries. Something
> like this:
>
> >>> pprint.pprint(dataset)
> {'casts': {'experimenter': None,
>            'location': {'latitude': None,
>                         'longitude': None},
>            'time': None,
>            'xbt': {'depth': None,
>                    'temperature': None}},
>  'catalog_number': None,
>  'z': {'array': {'z': None},
>        'maps': {'lat': None,
>                 'lon': None}}}
>
> I want to assign to the values in the dictionary the hierarchy of keys
> to it. For example:
>
> >>> dataset['casts']['experimenter'] = 'casts.experimenter'
> >>> dataset['z']['array']['z'] = 'z.array.z'
>
> Of course I would like to do this automatically, independent of the
> structure of the dictionary. Is there an easy way to do it?



>>> def f(d):
    for k, v in d.iteritems():
        if v is None:
            yield k
        else:
            for name in f(v):
                yield k + '.' + name



>>> list(f(d))
['casts.xbt.depth', 'casts.xbt.temperature', 'casts.experimenter',
'casts.location.latitude', 'casts.location.longitude', 'casts.time',
'z.maps.lat', 'z.maps.lon', 'z.array.z', 'catalog_number']


Raymond Hettinger





From colarte at telesat.com.co  Sun Sep 21 06:07:44 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 05:07:44 -0500
Subject: Pmw menubutton enable/disable
In-Reply-To: <bkf001$stj$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
References: <bkf001$stj$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <20030921050744.57cbe884.colarte@telesat.com.co>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:20:57 +0200
Markus von Ehr <markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de> wrote:
> is it possible to enable/disable a menubutton?
> My code is like this:
> menuBar = Pmw.MenuBar(root, hull_relief = 'ridge', hull_borderwidth = 1)
> 
> menuBar.pack(side=TOP, fill = 'x')
> menuBar.addmenu('Help', 'help')
> menuBar.addmenuitem('Help', 'command', 'Help About', command = 
> self.About, label = 'About', state=DISABLED)
> 
> 
> 
> now my menubutton is disabled.
> Anyone knows how to enable it?

try this :
menuBar.config(state=ENABLED)

Camilo Olarte




From link0937 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 03:49:26 2003
From: link0937 at hotmail.com (Link)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:49:26 +0800
Subject: How to load the DLL with PyRun_SimpleString?
Message-ID: <bkou2f$i5l$1@news.seed.net.tw>

Hi,

Have anyone know how to import the DLL in C program?


Actually, I have used the statement 'PyRun_SimpleString' to import .PY,

Such as,
r = PyRun_SimpleString("import os");
It's be fine.


If importing the DLL by this commdand,

Such as,
r = PyRun_SimpleString("import example");

return the error code -1.


Should any advice,  let me know whatever you try...

Thanks in advance.
Link





From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Thu Sep 11 04:06:22 2003
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:06:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com>  <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com>  <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com> <3F5F83B1.48763F85@alcyone.com>  <cg5vlvgorsi88elsn9ur5ueavpg27d7ui3@4ax.com> <3F5FD6D7.119F04A1@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bjpadu$e9h$1@news.island.liu.se>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> That isn't what I meant.  Look at the following code:

>	someFunction(thisArgument, thatArgument)

> With Python as it stands right now, I know that this call can never
> rebind the names thisArgument and thatArgument.  It doesn't matter what
> someFunction is, it doesn't matter what thisArgument or thatArgument
> are.  I know it can never happen.

> With your proposed change, now whenever I see a function call in code I
> don't know whether it's going to rebind names from the caller's side. 
> It might, it might not.  Furthermore, with Python's dynamicism, it might
> be hard to tell without running the code (since functions are first
> class objects, inspecting the function name may not help).

No, you *would* know.  The above call would *not* be able to
rebind any of thisArgument or thatArgument.  In fact, if
someFunction() is defined with a ref parameter, the call would
*fail*, raising an exception.  Just like calling it with the
wrong number of parameters would.

For someFunction() to be able to rebind, e.g, thisArgument, there
are *two* prerequisites:
  1. someFunction() must be defined as 'def someFunction(ref a, b)'.
  2. the *call* must be 'someFunction(ref x, y)'.
*Both* these must be met.  If only one of them is met, the call
will fail.

Here's a sample session of what would happen under Stephen's
model:

    >>> def ref_f(ref x):
    ...     x = 17
    ... 
    >>> def norm_f(x):
    ...     x = 23
    ... 
    >>> a = 0
    >>> ref_f(a)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: ref_f() must have reference parameter
    >>> print a
    0
    >>> ref_f(ref a)
    >>> print a
    17
    >>> norm_f(a)
    >>> print a
    17
    >>> norm_f(ref a)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: norm_f() must not have reference parameter
    >>> print a
    17

(For the record, I do not support Stephen's proposal, nor any
other kinds of call-by-reference in Python.  For one, I don't
think it meshes well with the rest of Python, and moreover, I
have yet to encounter a real-world example where this would
actually make code more readable - and I have been using Python
for eight years now, and Lisp (which has similar call semantics)
for a few years before that.)


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"God is real, but Jesus is an integer."      !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
                                             !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 02:24:15 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 23:24:15 -0700
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309212224.1ca9edeb@posting.google.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message news:<bkkusk$pvi$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> The usage of SZ has only been eliminated in the recent change of
> the amtliche Rechtschreibung.
> 

And replaced with what?  ie. is there now a single capital for SZ?



From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep 16 15:41:50 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:41:50 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <16231.25317.741455.556170@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org>        <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net> <16231.25317.741455.556170@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F67677E.9030408@sci.fi>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>    Harri> Py_None is special because it is shared between all interpreters, it is 
>    Harri> global. Py_None is defined as:
>
>    ...
>
>
>    Harri> From the above we see that when Py_None reference count reaches
>    Harri> zero, a destructor none_dealloc is called.
>
>    ...
>
>    Harri> This makes no sense at all. Why Py_FatalError? It would be better
>    Harri> to have
>
>    Harri> static void
>    Harri> none_dealloc(PyObject* ignore)
>    Harri> {
>    Harri> }
>
>Actually, it makes perfect sense.  The reference count of Py_None is never
>supposed to reach zero.  If that happens it's because you have a bug (too
>many Py_DECREFs or not enouch Py_INCREFs).  Your version of none_dealloc
>silently masks the error.
>
Yes, and there is no error if the reference count of Py_None reaches 
zero. The Py_None reference count has no meaning.

>    Harri> so that it is not necessary to call Py_INCREF(Py_None)
>    Harri> Py_DECREF(Py_None) at all. Guess how many times these are called
>    Harri> in Python C API? Py_INCREF is called 2001 times and Py_DECREF two
>    Harri> times.
>
>You mean how many places does Py_(IN|DE)CREF(Py_None) appear?  Note that in
>most situations the interpreter itself calls Py_DECREF(<return value>) for
>you.  You just can't tell that "<return value>" is Py_None using a static
>scan of the C source code.
>
>    Harri> By changing the way how Py_None is freed (by doing nothing)
>    Harri> Python would get simpler and faster.  
>
>I think you are completely missing the point of Python's reference
>counting.  Py_None is nothing special except for the fact that it is not
>allocated on the stack.  In fact, if you removed all the INCREFs and
>DECREFs I think you'd have to special-case the code which detects negative
>reference counts.  Py_None's reference count would quickly go negative and
>instead of the normal reference counting dance you'd always be calling the
>error function which handles negative ref counts.  It would always have to
>compare its argument object with Py_None to make sure it wasn't complaining
>about the now-special Py_None object.
>  
>
How can you have negative reference counts? Answer: You can't. Just 
remove the code that checks for negative reference counts. It is not 
needed. The code just gets faster again. OK, you could have it in debug 
builds, and in that case it could also check that the object was in fact 
allocated on stack.

I think that you are completely missing the point of Python's reference 
counting. :-) The idea is that when the count reaches zero, then the 
object is deallocated. But if the object was never allocated in the 
first place, why deallocate it then? That's why having empty 
none_dealloc is beautiful.

I think that PyINCREF(Py_None) is ugly, and at least it is completely 
unnecessary.

Harri




From bergeston at yahoo.fr  Fri Sep 19 09:02:49 2003
From: bergeston at yahoo.fr (Bertrand Geston)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:02:49 +0200
Subject: Retrieve class name of caller
In-Reply-To: <6512ed42.0309190035.303ba9f1@posting.google.com>
References: <6512ed42.0309190035.303ba9f1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkeuos$18vsv$1@sinclair.be.wanadoo.com>

Koen Van Herck wrote:
> For debugging/logging purposes, I have a function
> 
> def Log(msg):
>     print '%s.%s: %s' % (cls, method, msg)
> 
> I call this function from a class method, and I would like to retrieve
> the name of the caller method and its class. I already came up with
> 
> method = sys._getframe(1).f_code.co_name
> cls = sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self'].__class__
> 
> I wonder if there are better ways to retrieve this info. In
> particular, my implementation assumes that the instance parameter of
> the method is called 'self', which it usually is, of course.
> 
> Regards,
> Koen.

Take look to the inspect module. Could be what you need (and even more).




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Sep 17 09:43:31 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:43:31 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net> <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org> <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net> <20030916211148.GD29089@unpythonic.net> <3F67D36B.80709@sci.fi> <mailman.1063800564.6399.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bk9oe2$m88$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> Keep in mind that probably more than of 99.9% of machines out there
> have only one CPU anyway

This could very well change in the future and is probably quite different in
the server segment. Although if I had 2 CPUs on my desktop, I'd prefer it if
a CPU hog blocks only one of them, so Python would be perfect for that
scenario.

> no-ops, and use fork() to get that 2%* performance increase.

Keep in mind that probably more than <wild guess> of machines out there use
windows, so fork () is not an option.

But the real problem with free threading are the reference counters as they
have to be protected from concurrent accesses, which is now done cheaply by
relying on the GIL.

So my guess is that a free threading Python will be slower, even when no
threads are used.

Daniel






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 13:35:23 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 13:35:23 -0400
Subject: Question on Standard Types
References: <mailman.1062951612.13844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjfq8r$lg7$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1062951612.13844.python-list at python.org>,
hostmaster  <alpot at mylinuxsite.com> wrote:
>
>I'm quite new to Python and I am reading this book called 'Core Python
>Programming' by Wesley J. Chun.  I think that this is not a new book but
>I believe some of the points are still valid.
>
>There is this part in the book where it says:  
>
>"In Python, standard types are not classes, so creating integers and
>strings does not involve instantiation".

Actually, this bit *is* definitely out of date; Python 2.2 introduced
new-style classes, and all the standard types are now new-style classes.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Sep  4 15:38:46 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 15:38:46 -0400
Subject: Quickie mail.python.org status
References: <727daa7e.0309031140.1af820b2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062701424.7924.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj84c6$2mk$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1062701424.7924.python-list at python.org>,
Francois Pinard  <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
>On the other hand, I've read somewhere (on the Symantec site, I think), t=
>hat
>at least some varieties of the virus will turn themselves off on Septembe=
>r
>9'th.  I do not understand why the bad guys would have programmed such a
>deadline within their code, but I still wish this deadline story is true!

Actually, the date is Sept 10, and the presumption is that SoBig.G will
be released on Sept 11....
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 12:04:15 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:04:15 GMT
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it> <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com> <bkvbb5$6mi$00$1@news.t-online.com> <TXTcb.124120$hE5.4241274@news1.tin.it> <3F74A1E7.5040102@web.de>
Message-ID: <3yidb.179256$R32.5736957@news2.tin.it>

Dominic wrote:

> 
> Well, first of all I agree with you that
> a more traditional approach using queues
> is better and more predictable.
> 
> And yes on a single CPU machine I was
> thinking about stopping all "low priority"
> threads.
> 
> This is somehow creaky and fragile but
> you don't need a thread per "task" as
> in your queue based alternative.

Queues don't make you need a thread per task: you
can perfectly well have threads from a pool peeling
tasks of a queue of tasks -- that's a frequent use,
in fact.


> So you could have 3000 "tasks" and
> one thread e.g.
> However every "task" would need to recover
> from it's injected exception which
> is kind of unpredictable and hard to program.
> 
> I would not use such an architecture ;-)

Me neither -- exceptions can arrive at any time, and
recovering and restarting a task under such conditions
is frighteningly hard.  Much easier to have all tasks
coded as loops with reasonably frequent checks on e.g.
a lock, if you do need to temporarily suspend them all
to leave CPU available for an occasional high-priority
task -- this way the checks come when the task is in
a "reasonable", "restartable" state, implicitly.


> Now to the delay:
   ...
> As you can see it takes about 7 seconds until the
> exception is injected.

Offhand you seem to be testing your console drivers and the
C runtime library interface to them, much more than you're
testing Python.  The test I posted doesn't use the console
in such critical junctures -- admittedly it does use time.sleep,
one does have to waste time in SOME way without melting the
CPU, but that still feels less artificial to me than your
console-based minuet.


Alex




From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 18:40:29 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:40:29 +0200
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
References: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com> <3F5656CA.519ABADF@easystreet.com> <731fc603.0309041328.4e83f8ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj8f21$kj9$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Hank" <soundwave56 at yahoo.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:731fc603.0309041328.4e83f8ab at posting.google.com...
> where would i get this csv module from? does it come with python 2.2?
>
> thanks

No of course - read my posting!

Kindly
Michael P





From mando81 at prodigy.net  Mon Sep  1 19:41:55 2003
From: mando81 at prodigy.net (ARMANDO  PADILLA)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:41:55 GMT
Subject: printer friendly python tutorial
References: <jRb4b.231609$cF.75639@rwcrnsc53> <YTb4b.235097$It4.112333@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <7PQ4b.3799$Eb.2797@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>

Hi, im new to this group, been a member of php group but anyways... I wanted
to know if you had a link to the tutorial you found.


-- 
Armando P.
Software Engineer.
Computer Science/Economics, California State University Los Angeles
http://www.armando.ws
"winston" <wdunn82 at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:YTb4b.235097$It4.112333 at rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> winston wrote:
> > does anyone know where i can find a printer friendly version of the
> > python tutorial release 2.3?
> >
> never mind i found it?
>
>





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Thu Sep 11 20:19:50 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:19:50 -0700
Subject: Web server with Python
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thomas Weholt wrote:

[snip]

> 
> Twisted is very easy to get a grip on if you stay away from Woven
> and use the resource-class yourself. I can produce a very simple
> example if you like. I find Twisted to have a very steep learning
> curve in some areas and the project do have a feeling being "under
> construction", but the developers/mailing-list are very friendly
> and helpful and glad for input.

The Twisted mailing list has been down for a few days.  They're
moving.

To get Twisted, check:

    http://www.twistedmatrix.com/

I agree with the positive comments about Twisted.

The Twisted documentation seems pretty good and fairly extensive.
And, for Web applications, here is a document I've written that
might help you to get started:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/twisted_patterns.html

I've checked this document carefully myself, but have not yet been
able to get any Twisted experts to review it yet (again, the email
list is down temporarily), so "reader beware".

Twisted is more than Web apps, by the way.

[snip]

> MySQL is easy to work with using Python, so yes. My experience
> with ZODB has not been good. I had problems compiling earlier
> version of it ( probably my fault but still ) and I quickly found
> out that I needed SQL to be able to store and retrieve data the
> way I wanted. If MySQL is too much for you take a look at SQLite,
> it has a python-module and easy to install/distribute and it is a
> "real" sql-database, ie. it can understand SQL and feels like a
> SQL-database.

PostgreSQL also seems to work well with Twisted.  See my document
(mentioned above) for code examples on using PostgreSQL (or other
relational databases, with minor changes) with Twisted.

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From jseb at cs.mcgill.ca  Tue Sep 23 13:23:59 2003
From: jseb at cs.mcgill.ca (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-S=E9bastien_Bolduc?=)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 10:23:59 -0700
Subject: eval's local arguement ignored?
Message-ID: <56e1eff0.0309230923.1215833f@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I would like to associate a local namespace with a lambda function. To
be more specific, here is exactly what I would want:

def foo():
  a = 1
  f = lambda x : a*x
  return f

then if "f1 = foo()", I get a function whose parameter "a" is not in
the global scope. But my functions are not to be hard-coded. I naively
expected the following to work:

def foo(funcstring):
  a = 1
  f = eval(funcstring)
  return f

but "f2 = foo( 'lambda x : a*x' )" won't work: "f2()" will look for
"a" in the globals.

Looking at the documentation (I did!), I was then certain replacing
the evaluation with the following would work:

  f = eval(funcstring, globals(), locals())

Or, while we're at it, evaluating the whole thing outside of function
"foo":

f = eval('lambda x : a*x', globals(), {'a' : 1})

Ooops! the new function still looks for "a" in the globals... Although
I could not find any documentation about the fact, it seems the
"local" argument to "eval" has no effect in the above cases!

So for now, I'm doing something like

f = eval('lambda x : a*x', {'a' : 1})

but then my function looses access to the globals.

I know that only the very first case above gives me a function whose
"fun_closure" attribute is not "None". But still I cannot see where I
go wrong.

Thank you,

   JSeb



From kalike2003 at netscape.net  Fri Sep 26 05:11:45 2003
From: kalike2003 at netscape.net (Kali K E)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 02:11:45 -0700
Subject: Getting the Directory/Path details
References: <ab5a234a.0309250906.44b42beb@posting.google.com> <bkv866$u2n$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ab5a234a.0309260111.12dea1ad@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<bkv866$u2n$07$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Kali K E wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > I could not understand how I can do the following things in Python.
> > Please help me.
> > 
> > 1. First I have to find the current directory from where the script is
> > invoked.
> > 2. Next I have to form a directory structure there. If the current
> > directory in step 1 is /home/mylogin, then from there I have to build
> > a directory structure like
> > /home/mylogin/result
> > /home/mylogin/tmp/
> > /home/mylogin/.....
> > 
> > There are three things as I look at it. First determing the current
> > directory path. Second adding a string to it like /result etc. Third
> > creating the new directory.
> > Thank you for the help.
> > 
> > Kali
> 
> 1 os.getcwd()
> 2 os.path.join()
> 3 os.mkdir() or os.makedirs()
> 
> <code>
> import os
> 
> subfolders = [
>     "result",
>     "temp",
>     "something/else",
> ]
> 
> folder = os.getcwd()
> 
> for sf in subfolders:
>     os.makedirs(os.path.join(folder, sf))
> </code>

Hi,

Thank you very much for the answer. It works fine when used first
time. But when the directory already exists I am getting the following
traceback message.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "temp6.py", line 15, in ?
    os.makedirs(os.path.join(folder, sf))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 203, in makedirs
    mkdir(name, mode)
OSError: [Errno 17] File exists:
'/hda1/home/kalike/chnages/python/result'

How do I take care in such a case?

Also can you please let me know where I can search for all these OS or
system calls. Is it available as a document some where?

Thanks,
Kali



From rob at cs.brown.edu  Mon Sep 29 16:27:33 2003
From: rob at cs.brown.edu (Rob Hunter)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:27:33 -0400
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <20030929142027.GA6750@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <5B71DD32-F2BB-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>

On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 10:20 AM, Gerrit Holl wrote:

> Rob Hunter wrote:
>> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
>>
>> One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x ==
>> type(2387482734274)) and ...
>>
>> but this seems kludgy.  Any better way?
>
> Why do you want to do so?


I am writing an interpreter, and my parser has to decide if an 
expression is a number or not.



> Maybe, it is better in your
> case to just run the piece of code using the number, and
> if it fails, it fails.
> However, if you must, you need to
> do type(x) is type(1) and ... etc., or isinstance(x, int)
> and isinstance(x, float), etc.
>
> Gerrit.





From holiver at computerbums.com  Mon Sep  8 12:44:58 2003
From: holiver at computerbums.com (James F. Lu - Publicity Chair)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:44:58 -0700
Subject: Upcoming Symposium - COSST
Message-ID: <007601c37642$7f4fc840$220110ac@FLUFFY>

=======================================================
Coast Open Source Software Technology (COSST) Symposium
                         by
    IEEE Computer Society - Orange County Chapter
=======================================================

WHAT: Applying Open Source Web Technologies COSST Symposium
WHEN: Saturday Oct. 18.  9am-6pm
WHERE: Jazz Semiconductor auditorium, Conexant Systems

Overview
--------
Our technical focus will be on using LAMP and Java open-source technologies.
The LAMP acronym is used to describe a typical open-source platform "stack"
for web applications:

* Linux operating system
* Apache web server
* MySQL/PostgreSQL databases
* Perl/PHP/Python languages

The symposium will open with foundation talks providing an overview of
open-source software and Linux as an open-source web application platform. A
series of application-tier talks will provide insight from the point of view
of widely used web application development languages: Perl, PHP, Python, and
Java. The final session will be an experience panel, which will provide an
opportunity for experience reports from actual development projects to
illustrate real-life problems and opportunities of OSS.


Target Audience
---------------
The target audience for the symposium is professional software engineers and
technical management. The audience is expected to have a diverse background
involving many operating systems and languages, with experience in software
system development for a variety of industrial, military and commercial
purposes. Attendees will include experienced professionals who have had
little or no exposure with open-source software and are looking for a good
introduction.


Symposium Goals
---------------
The goal of the symposium is to provide participants with a high-level,
technically sophisticated overview of major open source software (OSS)
technologies for
web application development. The symposium will provide information about
technology, resources, and supporting tools and processes of the OSS
community. The attendee will take away from the symposium a basic
understanding of the available technologies, information about how to
acquire and learn more about the various packages, and insight that will
enable them to make informed decisions about using and deploying specific
OSS technology in web applications.



The technical sessions will address:

* overview - what is it, what does it do, what problems does it solve
* key features - description of key features with short examples
* application examples - a few simple examples of doing something useful or
where/how to apply the technology
* applicability - when should you use it? [or when not!]
* resources - where to get it, who maintains it, where
  to find help, documentation, assistance, mailing lists


Sessions
--------
9:00 Symposium Welcome

9:10 Introduction to open-source software
Walt Scacchi
Sr Research Scientist. UCI Institute of Software Research

10:00 Linux and OSS in Enterprise Development
Bill Hilf
Sr Architect and Linux Technical Leader.  IBM

11:00 Web Application Development with Perl
Eric Hammond
Director of Technology. Rent.com

12:00 Lunch (Included for paid registrants)

1:OO Introduction to PHP and PEAR
Jesus Castagnetto
Co-author of "Professional PHP Programming" (Wrox Press)

2:00 Python-Powered Web Application Development
Chuck Esterbrook
Software Consultant and Creator of Webware for Python

3:00 Mid-afternoon break

3:15 Java OSS Web Technologies
Dave Ford
Java Consultant and Trainer. SmartSoft.

4:15 Experiences in OSS Web Application Development Panel
Facilitated by Prakash Malani
Principal Software Engineer. eBuilt.com

5:15 Closing
Closing remarks and symposium wrapup.



Cost and Registration
---------------------
Your registration fees will be discounted according to your IEEE and/or
Computer Society membership, as shown below:

Standard $75
IEEE Member $60
IEEE Student Member $30
Student $45

You may register online at
https://www.regonline.com/Checkin.asp?EventId=9769

If you are one of the first 75 paid registrants, you will get a chance to
win one of two Oreilly's "Linux Server CD Bookshelf" (retail value:
$119.95), or one of many other LAMP related Oreilly reference books.

COSST Volunteers will get in free. There may also be T-Shirts. To volunteer,
contact Sebastian: seguti at ics.uci.edu or call 1-949-509-9628


Direction
---------------------
Conexant Systems-Jazz Semiconductor
4321 Jamboree Road
Newport Beach, CA 92660

A map of the area may be found at
http://www.jazzsemi.com/docs/jazz-directions.pdf


For more information, please visit us at http://cosst.ieee-occs.org  or call
Toll Free 1-888-548-1969
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From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Sep 30 10:38:58 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:38:58 +0100
Subject: [PMW] Rename a notebook's page - how?
In-Reply-To: <3f798986@news.swissonline.ch>
References: <3f798986@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <1064932738.29477.1.camel@m-franklin>

On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 14:49, F. GEIGER wrote:
> Hi again,
> 
> I'd like to rename a page of a notebook. Deleting the page and adding a new
> one is not really an option, because the page is filled with other controls
> already. So I looked into Pmw.Notebook. There are quite a few lists and
> dicts which were to be changed and I wasn't successful in the first try.
> 
> However, if nobody has ever done this, I'd have to rebuild the whole page
> after deleting/adding. I really hope there's an other way to go.
> 
> Kind regards
> Franz GEIGER
> 
> 
> 


You need to get hold of the "tab" widget and change it's text.

nb = Pmw.NoteBook(root)
nb.pack()


nb.add("Page1")
nb.add("Page2")
nb.add("Page3")


tab = nb.tab("Page1")
tab["text"]= "Martin1"






Regards

-- 
Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>





From mitchchapman at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 12 10:07:35 2003
From: mitchchapman at earthlink.net (Mitch Chapman)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:07:35 GMT
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org> <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:56:55 +0300, 
> 	Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote:
> On the other hand, considering that the last free threading packages were
> for 1.4, and no one has bothered to update them, the community doesn't seem
> to find the subject as important as you do. :)
> 
> --amk

At IPC8 Greg Wilson, then of the Software Carpentry project,
noted that the GIL made it hard to write multi-threaded Python
apps which could take advantage of multi-processor systems.  He
argued that this would limit Python's appeal in some segments of
the scientific community.

Perhaps those who find the subject important have left the
community?  Perhaps they've adopted kludgey workarounds?

In my company the GIL has meant that some performance problems,
which could most easily be addressed by multiple threads
sharing access to large collections of Python objects, have
been deferred.


--
Mitch




From edwards at nospam.lcs.mit.edu  Tue Sep 30 22:23:37 2003
From: edwards at nospam.lcs.mit.edu (Jonathan Edwards)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:23:37 GMT
Subject: Python parser that records source ranges
In-Reply-To: <3c91a864.0309291243.6fb1196f@posting.google.com>
References: <qRKdb.456249$Oz4.260848@rwcrnsc54> <3c91a864.0309291243.6fb1196f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F7A3AA7.9090804@nospam.lcs.mit.edu>

So the basic idea is to match up the leaves of the AST with the list of 
tokens from tokenizer, which do contain location info. I had thought of 
that, but was hoping there was a more informative parser out there.
Thanks.

Jonathan


logistix at cathoderaymission.net wrote:

> Jonathan Edwards <edwards at nospam.lcs.mit.edu> wrote in message news:<qRKdb.456249$Oz4.260848 at rwcrnsc54>...
> 
>>The parser library module only records source line numbers for tokens. I 
>>need a parser that records ranges of line and character locations for 
>>each AST node, so I can map back to the source. Does anyone know of such 
>>a thing? Thanks
>>
>>Jonathan
> 
> 
> You know there's not going to be a one-to-one relationship, right? 
> Most ast nodes are symbols and aren't going to match to any tokens. 
> Python asts also use a lot of intermediate nodes to enforce operator
> precidence.
> 
> Anyway, I have some rather specialized code in PyXR that syncs tokens
> to an ast.  You probably won't be able to use it out of the box but it
> should give you a good start:
> 
> http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/PyXR/
> 
> The source file of particular interest to you would be astToHtml.py:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/p3cn




From jcribbs at twmi.rr.com  Thu Sep  4 13:12:34 2003
From: jcribbs at twmi.rr.com (Jamey Cribbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:12:34 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE:  KirbyBase 1.5
Message-ID: <6oK5b.650$FJ5.63203@twister.columbus.rr.com>

KirbyBase 1.5 is now available at:

http://www.netpromi.com/files/KirbyBase-1.5.zip


What is KirbyBase?

KirbyBase is a simple, pure-Python, plain-text, flat-file database
management system that can be used either embedded in your application
or in a client/server, multi-user mode.

To find out more about KirbyBase, go to:
http://www.netpromi.com/kirbybase.html


Changes:

Well after reading some posts on comp.lang.python about how slow eval
can be, I set about eliminating eval from KirbyBase.  It resulted in
uglier code, but increased performance, enough of a performance increase
that I figured I would go ahead and release a new version.
Specifically, the changes are:

Changed the way queries are handled internally.  Instead of doing an
eval to do numeric and datetime comparisons, I changed it to do the
actual comparison itself.  This resulted in a 40% speed increase on
large queries that do comparison expressions.

Changed how data is passed between the server and the client in
client/server mode.  I now use cPickle instead of repr and eval. This
resulted in an approximately 40% speed increase in client/server
operations.

An anecdotal example, doing a  date range select query against a 78,000
record table returning 23,800 records in the result set.
Version 1.4:  13 seconds
Version 1.5:  8 seconds

Who says Python isn't fast?  :)







From jordan at krushen.com  Wed Sep 17 21:19:37 2003
From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:19:37 GMT
Subject: Module to generate OpenOffice Writer documents
References: <1093E8BAEB6AD411997300508BDF0A7C1571ECD0@USHEM204> <mailman.1063844066.4336.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oprvn8p9uw5ctagx@shawnews>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:34:41 -0400, python <python at sarcastic-horse.com> 
wrote:

> What I'd be even more interested in is if it is possible to submit the
> xml to OpenOffice, and then use its rendering features to crank out
> pretty PDF files, all through scripts.

The Python-UNO bridge might do the trick for you.  It lets you 
programatically control OOo apps:

http://udk.openoffice.org/python/python-bridge.html

J.




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 12:12:24 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:12:24 GMT
Subject: class methods vs instance methods (was Re: Why the 'self' argument?)
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <mailman.1062772284.31606.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IB26b.18582$hE5.654063@news1.tin.it>

vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in wrote:
   ...
> The first argument in a class method is a reference to that class itself.

Yes, that's what defines CLASS methods (as opposed to ordinary, or
INSTANCE, methods).  But the original poster was not asking about class
methods, and you're not giving any examples of them -- I only see
instance methods.  I suspect a terminology problem -- you may be using
the term "class method" in a way that is totally inappropriate to
Python, where classes are first-level objects.


So -- in Python, you see...:

To make a class method you have to call on the classmethod built-in.  E.g.:

class Example(object):

    def instmeth(self): print 'Instance method of', self

    def clasmeth(cls): print 'Class method of', cls
    clasmeth = classmethod(clasmeth)

inst = Example()


Now you can call:

inst.instmeth()

or:

inst.clasmeth()
Example.clasmeth()

(both of these do exactly the same thing), but NOT:

Example.instmeth()

since an INSTANCE method, differently from a CLASS method,
needs to be passed the instance as the first argument, either
implicitly (by CALLING it on the instance) or explicitly
by passing it when calling the method on the class, as in:

Example.instmeth(inst)


Alex




From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  3 10:58:19 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:58:19 -0700
Subject: wxGrid?
References: <3f55f478$1@news.comindico.com.au> <bj4uur$f9lej$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bj4vap$fe3fg$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

     I was able to run your script
     by adding two lines ...

     AND ... deleting ... return True
             from  the __init__ method

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Sep 16 22:59:21 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:59:21 -0700
Subject: scoping with lambda in loops
References: <7f9e1817.0309161338.20fbdcbc@posting.google.com> <eppstein-D67C09.15312816092003@news.service.uci.edu> <KvP9b.49089$DZ.34699@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-AB8136.19592116092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <KvP9b.49089$DZ.34699 at news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
 "martin z" <pxtl at hotmail.com> wrote:

> > a = []
> > for index in range(5):
> >     a.append(lambda index=index: index)
> >
> > or maybe more concisely
> >
> > a = [lambda index=index: index for index in range(5)]
> 
> You know how Python is supposed to be executable pseudocode?  Well that
> stuff is farking ugly.  If I handed pseudocode like that into any TA in one
> of my classes, I'd be toast.  Is there any way to do that in a legible
> manner?

How about this:

def makefunction(x):
    def thefunction():
        return x
    return thefunction

a = map(makefunction, range(5))

The identifiers are still a little uninformative, but it's hard to do 
better without more information from the original poster...

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Mon Sep 15 14:20:04 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:20:04 -0700
Subject: Processes.
In-Reply-To: <f3ff61d9.0309150715.26efddf5@posting.google.com>; from guy.flowers@Machineworks.com on Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:15:49AM -0700
References: <f3ff61d9.0309150715.26efddf5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030915112004.P12129@ActiveState.com>

Guy,

Basically working with processes in a cross-platform manner is a pain.
:)  Yes PIDs are more of a Linux/Unix thing. I think they do exist to a
degree on Windows but that would only be as part of Windows' weak posix
compliance layer. In Windows you generally want to talk about process
handles. However, Python's standard process handling stuff doesn't
generally expose the handles for started processes. I have a module
called process.py that might help do what you want to do. Give it a try:
    http://starship.python.net/crew/tmick/#process

Cheers,
Trent


[Guy wrote]
> Hi
> 
> I've done some projects in python for my work which invole some test
> scripts etc. All quite basic stuff, I find python a good language to
> work in but have come up against a brick wall. I'm been searching
> google for hours about processes pids etc. My problem is as follows
> the main problem code can be seen below :
> 
> server = uc_server(HOST_str, PORT_num)
> while 1:
>     asyncore.poll(SERVER_TIMEOUT)
> 
>     # Only pops queue when the current item is blank.
>     if (server.current_queue_item == [0,"","",["",0],["",""]]):
>         # Pops a queue item if there are any queue items to get.
>         Temp_Current_Item = MainQueue.Pop()
>         if (Temp_Current_Item != N):
>             server.current_queue_item = Temp_Current_Item
>     
>         Execute_Command_str =
> ServerSupport.CreateCommand(Temp_Current_Item)
>     
>         # Only executes if on a win32 platform.
>         if (sys.platform == "win32")and(Execute_Command_str != N):
>             output, input = popen2("cmd.exe")
>             input.write(Execute_Command_str+"\n")
>             input.write("exit\n")
>             
>             while 1:
>                 text = output.readline()
>                 if text:
>                     print text                    
>                 else:
>                     # Sets the current queue item to blank.
>                     server.current_queue_item =
> [0,"","",["",0],["",""]]
>                     break
> 
> What I want to have is a server which is multi platform win32,
> unix(lots of differnt sorts and may be mac later but forget mac for
> now.) that people can telnet onto leave a job, and then the server
> runs the jobs one at a time.
> What I have is a server that people can telnet on to leave a job, the
> server will execute it and keep executing it until it is done. I
> thought that maybe the poll thing would sort this out by switching
> from the main body of the script to the server part of the script, but
> it didn't. The way that I use popen2 is my fav. way of executing
> processes as I can catcher all output. What would be really good if I
> could execute commands or scripts by using child processes and
> searching for there pids this way I would know whats running on the
> box at any one time.
> There's loads about pids processes on google but it mainly in unix, I
> mainly want it in win32 which there is hardly anything about.
> 
> Please Please Help
> 
> TIA
> TTFN
> Guy
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 21 12:41:59 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:41:59 +0100
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F6DD4D7.AF309B4@hotmail.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> socket.timeout is a subclass of socket.error, so the timeout exception
> should be caught by the first except clause.

> So it seems there is *no* way to catch the error.
> I think you should file a bug report.

Hmmm.

What is wrong with the following code? It seems to do what you need:

#=======================================================
from urllib2 import urlopen
import socket
import sys

slowurl = "http://127.0.0.1/cgi-bin/longWait.py?wait=10"
socket.setdefaulttimeout(1)

try:
    data = urlopen(slowurl)
    data.read()
except socket.error:
    errno, errstr = sys.exc_info()[:2]
    if errno == socket.timeout:
        print "There was a timeout"
    else:
        print "There was some other socket error"
#==========================================================

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jrut at spamcop.net  Sun Sep  7 08:35:49 2003
From: jrut at spamcop.net (James P. Rutledge)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 06:35:49 -0600
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
Message-ID: <20030907123549.GA1011@mail.earthlink.net>

A suggestion for use with any Python webpage redesign would be to
consider using an automated webpage checker such as the one at

    http://validator.w3.org/

That validator does checks on webpages and reports on the pages
"conformance to W3C Recommendations and other standards."

-Jim Rutledge




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Sat Sep 27 21:34:55 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 11:24:55 +0950
Subject: Tutor
References: <6kqdb.146$Vb3.97520@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbncfrf.118.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 00:55:30 GMT, News wrote:
> Hello. I've just started learning Python a few weeks ago. I'm using
> the free "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with
> Python". I'm half-way through chapter 5 and I've been stumbling on a
> few things.

If there are parts of the tutorial that are gibing you problems, please
point them out here.  That way, you'll get comments that will help you
understand them, and we'll be able to determine if the tutorial can be
improved to avoid the confusion.

-- 
 \      "One seldom discovers a true believer that is worth knowing."  |
  `\                                               -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Fri Sep 19 06:17:34 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:17:34 GMT
Subject: SciTE
References: <221d8dbe.0309180716.17d73ae2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2JAab.111501$bo1.103684@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Srijit:

> I am unable to access http://www.scintilla.org/tags2api.py?

   It should be readable again. The hosting provider recently 'upgraded'
their systems.

   Neil





From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Tue Sep 23 05:16:12 2003
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 11:16:12 +0200
Subject: How to load the DLL with PyRun_SimpleString?
References: <bkou2f$i5l$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <u1xu7rhk3.fsf@online.no>

"Link" <link0937 at hotmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> Have anyone know how to import the DLL in C program?
> 
> 
> Actually, I have used the statement 'PyRun_SimpleString' to import
> .PY,
> 
> 
> Such as,
> r = PyRun_SimpleString("import os");
> It's be fine.
> 
> 
> If importing the DLL by this commdand,
> 
> Such as,
> r = PyRun_SimpleString("import example");
> 
> return the error code -1.

Is the .dll named .pyd? Is the .pyd on your sys.path?
 

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad



From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 14:58:04 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:58:04 +0200
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bj820r$8up$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Stephan Diehl" <stephan.diehl at gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bj7ots$48j$06$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Once in a while, I get bitten by the fact, that mutating list methods such
> as 'append' or 'extend' return None instead of the (mutated) list itself.
> Is there a compelling reason for that? I googled around, but didn't find
> anything about this.

There is a very old religious law saying: Thou shalt not cause side effects
by a function.
There is some wisdom in it but it is easily forgotten with languages which
do not differ between functions and routines.

Kindly
Michael P





From usenet at soraia.com  Thu Sep 18 04:42:23 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:42:23 GMT
Subject: audio module
In-Reply-To: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Odeab.4545046$cI2.642238@news.easynews.com>

Todd Stephens wrote:
> Is there such a module containing audio tools?  I am looking specifically
> for tools to manipulate ogg-vorbis and convert other formats (mp3, wav) to
> ogg.
> 

Here are some Ogg Vorbis bindings for Python:

http://www.andrewchatham.com/pyogg/




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 29 12:01:38 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:01:38 GMT
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>
Message-ID: <CHYdb.138808$hE5.4728730@news1.tin.it>

Dag wrote:

> Is there a python module that includes functions for working with prime
> numbers?  I mainly need A function that returns the Nth prime number and
> that returns how many prime numbers are less than N, but a prime number
> tester would also be nice.  I'm dealing with numbers in the 10^6-10^8
> range so it would have to fairly efficient

gmpy is pretty good for this sort of thing, but the primitives it gives
you are quite different -- is_prime to check if a number is prime, and
next_prime to get the smallest prime number larger than a given number.

You'd have to build your own caching on top of this to avoid repeating
computation if you need, e.g., "how many primes are < N" for several
different values of N; and I'm not even sure that gmpy's primitives are
optimal for this (compared with, for example, some kind of sieving).


Anyway, with all of these caveats, here's an example function:

import gmpy

def primes_upto(N):
    count = 0
    prime = gmpy.mpz(1)
    while prime < N:
        prime = prime.next_prime()
        count += 1
    return count

and having saved it in pri.py, here's what I measure in terms of time:

[alex at lancelot python2.3]$ python timeit.py -s 'import pri' -s 'M=1000*1000'
\
> 'pri.primes_upto(M)'
10 loops, best of 3: 2.76e+06 usec per loop
[alex at lancelot python2.3]$ python timeit.py -s 'import pri' -s
'M=2*1000*1000' 'pri.primes_upto(M)'
10 loops, best of 3: 4.03e+06 usec per loop

i.e., 2.76 seconds for primes up to 1,000,000 -- about 4 seconds
for primes up to 2,000,000.  (This is on my good old trusty Athlon
Linux machine, about 30 months old now and not top-speed even when
new -- I'm sure one of today's typical PC's might take 2 or 3
times less than this, of course).  If I was to use this kind of
computation "in production", I'd pre-compute the counts for some
typical N of interest and only generate and count primes in a
narrow band, I think; but it's hard to suggest anything without a
better idea of your application.


Alex




From c_edgar2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 11 05:56:04 2003
From: c_edgar2000 at yahoo.com (edgar c)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:56:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to use .wsdl files?
Message-ID: <20030911095604.17512.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi there,

I have a problem that I'll describe bellow and is
quite difficult to solve it because I'm new to python.
I hope I'll get some answers here that will allow me
to perform my task...

The idea is that I have to perform some unit tests
using python for an application that are using web
services. All the available methods are in wsdl files.

My question is how could I create python clients that
will use the methods from the wsdl files?

Thanks in advance!
edg

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sat Sep 20 11:03:22 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 15:03:22 GMT
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it> <ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bkhq7q$oi7$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

According to Phil Weldon <pweldon at mindspring.com>:
> The other type of e-mail
> is a fake notification of undeliverable e-mail.  This one is a real bear.
> There seem to be hundreds variations in the body content and thousands of
> variations in the header.  

So far I've caught all of these using this procmail recipe:

  :0 B
  * ^<BR><BR><BR>(<BR>)*Undeliver
  /dev/null

This scans the body for a string matching the regex in the second line. "*"
is a delimiter, not part of the regex.

The first several hundred I got had 3 <BR>'s, then it started coming with
4.

Similarly, the fake MS update first said "September 2003 Cumulative Patch",
then after several hundred I started to see "July 2003". I just saw one
"January 2000". The thing feels like it is mutating in response to filters!

> My guess is that the internet will not open on Monday.

Civilisation is under attack.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From losnations at comcast.net  Fri Sep 26 19:49:16 2003
From: losnations at comcast.net (Marc)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:49:16 -0500
Subject: Listbox: How do I empty the view in the window
References: <4378fa6f.0309251330.2162e494@posting.google.com> <bl1q2f$mlh$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4oacnVaKaKYhUumiU-KYvA@comcast.com>

Actually I was using the ComboBox but was just asking about the listbox part
of it. I was not aware of the .update() function. I had found a workaround
by deleting out the entryfield directly, but the update may be a cleaner
solution.

Thanks,
Marc


"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote in message
news:bl1q2f$mlh$04$1 at news.t-online.com...
>
> "Marc" <mnations at airmail.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:4378fa6f.0309251330.2162e494 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I can't figure this out. I want the ability to delete an item in a
> > listbox and leave the window area blank, like it is when the listbox
> > is first created and nothing selected.
> >
> > Right now the following is happening. If I simply delete the item in
> > the listbox, that item will stay in the view window until another item
> > is selected. Or I can select an item in the listbox as active and then
> > view it, but I don't want to do that.
>
> Widgets are nor always aware whether their displayed view has been
modified.
> You can force this by:
>
>   widget.update()
>
> >
> > I'm using the listbox to allow a user to either enter or select on
> > option. As a result, I need the ability to clear out the window so
> > they can type in their own selection.
> >
> > Can someone tell me how to do this?
>
> Is this another question? Have you considered to use some MPW widget as
> ComboBox?
>
> Kindly
> MichaelP
>
>





From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 12 07:06:09 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:06:09 +0200
Subject: Usenet posting wiht python
References: <a26792eb.0309120243.7adb6cc6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjs9bi$lm4$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Fernando wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> How can I send a usenet posting from a python app?
> Thanks O:-)

See http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-nntplib.html

Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep 29 07:03:21 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 07:03:21 -0400
Subject: extension call backs and the GIL
References: <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bl93hp$mgc$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I'm trying to better my understanding of multithreading. I believe a
>thread that calls an extension must have the GIL. What happens if the
>extension then calls back into Python? Can a function or method somehow
>'belong' to a different thread? My understanding was that things should
>be OK provided the extension code doesn't mess with the GIL (which it
>doesn't).

You need to reacquire the GIL prior to making the callback.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Sep 29 21:48:46 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:48:46 -0700
Subject: error explanation
References: <13df83a2.0309291345.32db8a2b@posting.google.com> <ce3eb.1758$603.1657@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3F78E0FE.B4994FE9@alcyone.com>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Try using raw_input() rather than input()

That definitely will not work.  That will just result in him trying to
preform arithmetic with strings instead of numerics.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The revolution will not televised
\__/  Public Enemy



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep 16 17:53:53 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:53:53 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <810fmvcc18e3apgp23mt3dqc7dsdgkm3gj@4ax.com>
References: <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net> <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org> <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net> <810fmvcc18e3apgp23mt3dqc7dsdgkm3gj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030916215352.GE29089@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Sep 17, 2003 at 12:31:45AM +0300, Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:22:41 +0300, rumours say that Harri Pesonen
> <fuerte at sci.fi> might have written:
> 
> [snip description of alternative python multithreading mechanisms
> allowing riddance of the GIL]
> 
> >It is more efficient to have one process and several threads, than 
> >several processes each having one thread.
> 
> Please define 'efficient' as used in your statement.

I hear that on Windows, processes are very inefficient compared to
threads.  However, I have no idea what this actually means.  Does Harri?
Or is he thinking of something else?  Is he thinking of something like
the "higher context switching cost in terms of TLB misses"?  God help
anybody who lets thoughts about TLB misses guide the way he writes
Python code! (excepting maybe Tim Peters and anybody writing
numpy/numarray)

I suspect that on Windows, stuff like pipe/dup2/fork has been turned
into a hopelessly complicated mess, rather than something I could "roll
my own" Python object-passing system out of inside an hour (using pickle
or the like).

Another cool thing about the pipe approach is that you can probably
distribute the processing over a network with only a little more work...
wowee, that's cool.

Jeff




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Tue Sep  2 11:34:58 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:34:58 -0400
Subject: Simple question: How to pass a C++ class reference to a
 callback?
References: <17fbc98a.0309020423.11ac7b8d@posting.google.com> <aB-dnSBw_cewCsmiXTWJiw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <uznhn5hlp.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

"T. Panbru" <panbru at comcast.net> writes:

> Try encapsulating your C++ class reference in a CObject, using:
>
>      PyObject* PyCObject_FromVoidPtr( void* cobj, void (*destr)(void *))
>      void* PyCObject_AsVoidPtr( PyObject* self)
>
> and so forth, to go back and forth between the C++ and Python realms.
>
> Check out the Python docs at:
>
>      http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/api/cObjects.html
>

Or use one of the high-level wrapping tools such as Boost.Python
(http://www.boost.org/libs/python) which make this stuff much easier
and safer.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From aicolburn at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 15:27:59 2003
From: aicolburn at yahoo.com (Alan C.)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 12:27:59 -0700
Subject: Python exercises
References: <3d19203b.0309162207.153b9922@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1a3a9ffa.0309171127.63482801@posting.google.com>

Bruce Embry's Python web site includes lots of exercises to try:

http://bembry.org/tech/python/index.php

Have fun! -- Al



From hungjunglu at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 20 13:55:06 2003
From: hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 10:55:06 -0700
Subject: whitespace
References: <pan.2003.09.19.23.35.54.334022@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <8ef9bea6.0309200955.b8c070d@posting.google.com>

"RR" <rr84 at cornell.edu> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.09.19.23.35.54.334022 at cornell.edu>...
> Is there an easy way in python to remove whitespace from a string?

' hello world '.replace(' ', '')

'helloworld'

Hung Jung



From johnagianis at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 09:07:07 2003
From: johnagianis at yahoo.com (johnagianis)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 06:07:07 -0700
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <b78f1e02.0309050507.5bb6afd@posting.google.com>

"Sophie All?on" <alleon at club-internet.fr> wrote in message news:<3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7 at news.club-internet.fr>...
> Hi,
> 
> CONTEXT
> I do numerical simulation for which I have to process mesh. A mesh is made
> of
> triangle which are made of points.
> I want from this information to create edges and build triangle from edges
> rather
> than from points.
> 
> PROBLEM
> An edge is shared by possibly more than one triangle.
> 
> ALGORITHM
> 
> have a triangle class  (made of 3 edges)
> have an edge   class   (made of 2 points and embeding a triangle list (those
> connected to the edge)
> 
> for each triangle construct its edges but I have to check if the edge
> already exists
> 
> for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
> string while I want it
> to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?
> 
> Have you a better idea ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Guillaume

Dictionary keys are not necessarily strings. It can be even class
instances!! You can have the following:

class edge:
    def __init__(self,x,y):
        self.a=x
        self.b=y
    def ...
    ....


pointA=(3,1)
pointB=(5,2)
edgeA=edge(pointA,pointB)

triangle={}

triangle[edgeA]=something

Well i think that a list would be ok. The use of a dictionary is for
making a relation (key->value).In this case i dont know what the value
could be.

John



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 18 17:33:41 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:33:41 -0400
Subject: print and trailing white space
References: <20030918232501.4f2ab362.max@fr.fm>
Message-ID: <3F6A24B5.B26940B3@engcorp.com>

Maxime Biais wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I know how to print a string without the trailing newline with a coma
> like :
> 
> print "hello word",
> 
> but this example add a white space after the string :(
> 
> Do you know how to avoid this white space without using write()

What's wrong with write() ?  Print is merely provided for convenience.
When it's not doing what you want, you are supposed to use write(),
not come up with weird hacks for print.

-Peter



From disgracelands at quietblue.co.uk  Mon Sep  1 03:08:37 2003
From: disgracelands at quietblue.co.uk (disgracelands)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 08:08:37 +0100
Subject: Accessing class members from C
Message-ID: <LfC4b.7697$6r4.5256@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

I'm starting to develop an application in Python running the interpreter
from C, i've got callbacks and stuff setup (was pretty pleased with that)
and i'm starting to get my head around the reference counting but i've hit a
snag.  I'm creating objects within python then linking them to their C
counterparts, what i want to do now is directly access the python class
variable objects from C.  Basically i have the python class object as a C
pointer and i want to access one of the class members, somevar, and even
read access would be fine.  I'm guessing theres a really easy way to do this
but i can't find an example in any of the docs and google turns up pages of
unrelated problems.

I know that i could write Get() and Set() methods for each member variable
but it doesn't seem like a very nice solution.

Cheers for any help






From max at alcyone.com  Fri Sep 19 18:15:03 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:15:03 -0700
Subject: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
References: <dnfmmv0n8evvu238thm96t3k2iff7dm33d@4ax.com>
	 <mailman.1063997966.12324.python-list@python.org>
	 <lOqdnaG8ttWUxvaiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064005948.25386.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6B7FE7.445FB3BF@alcyone.com>

William Trenker wrote:

> I nominate for hero:  Spambayes!
> 
> I have never received so many virus-related spam messages as this
> latest 'Swen' virus.  Even the recent 'Klez' virus didn't come close
> on volume of spam messages received.

I haven't seen any either, and my spam filters don't use Bayesian
methods.  The problem with this latest round of worm spam isn't that
it's bypassing filters (I just have some reasonably sane filtering rules
in my system, certainly nothing customized to this latest worm attack --
I don't even really know which rules are stopping it), it's putting
significant loads on mail servers.  Unfortunately, running an intensive,
per-user customized spam filtering solution like Spambayes _increases_
that load.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Forgiveness is another word for letting go.
\__/  Matthew Fox



From mailing at rousselot.rg  Sat Sep 20 17:27:23 2003
From: mailing at rousselot.rg (Philippe Rousselot)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:27:23 +0200
Subject: 2nd iteration of a character
Message-ID: <bkigte$1e3b$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

How do I find the second iteration of a character in a string using python

this gives me the first one
f1 = string.find(line,sub)

this the last one
f2 = string.rfind(line,sub)

but for the nth one ?

Thanks in advance

Philippe

PS : any good book to recommend ?



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep 15 11:12:46 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:12:46 -0400
Subject: Advice from Jeff (Was Re: Is there "let binding" in Python?)
References: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list@python.org> <o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <YJGdnbh7jKtyS_iiU-KYvA@comcast.com>

"Don Bruder" <dakidd at sonic.net> wrote in message
news:o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856 at typhoon.sonic.net...
> In article <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list at python.org>,
>  Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> > Not an answer, but advice: when writing programs in Python,
>> write Python programs.
>
> Gawd, but that's profound! And on several levels... No... I'm
serious.
> But I'm also smiling.

Jeff's advice is perhaps too terse for someone not already familiar
with it.  Does the following seem more helpful?

If you are writing a Python program to either learn Python or
accomplish a computing task, you will probably be happier and more
successful (in the middle to long run) if you write idiomatic Python
rather than 'literal translations' in the style of some other langauge
and *its* idioms.

The OP is not the first to more or less ask 'how do I literally
translate this foreign idiom' (which the poster may not even see as a
language-specific idiom) rather than 'how do I accomplish the same
function'.  This questions usually garner the advice given above.


> >  If it's your task to translate some Scheme (or any other
> > language) into Python as literally as possible, my heart goes out
to you.

> How miserable do you expect me to be translating from
> Python to C/C++ as literally as possible?

In respect to the basic data/object model, Python is more similar to
Lisp than C++.  In respect to syntax, the opposite is true.

By default, Python code is generic -- it runs with any object with the
needed interface.  So, unless a block is explicitly specialized to one
type with a preceeding assert or conditional, the literally 'as
literal as possible' translation to C++ is to template code.  Are you
doing this, or specializing  the C++ code by declaring variables and
function parameters to a particular type?

Terry J. Reedy





From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 14:43:26 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:43:26 GMT
Subject: why pass statement?
Message-ID: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Why is there the pass statement? I think, the expression statement would be enough:

class C:
    None

while True:
    None









From bhv1 at psu.edu  Thu Sep 11 11:56:28 2003
From: bhv1 at psu.edu (Brian Victor)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:56:28 GMT
Subject: GET and POST
References: <xc%7b.1420$95.169@newsr2.u-net.net> <mailman.1063289827.17272.python-list@python.org> <l908b.1425$95.197@newsr2.u-net.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbm16ot.l65.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>

franck wrote:
> i know how to do a GET.
>:) i have this example.
> my contact tell my i must do a get AND a post :/
>
> GET to fuse param et POST for the others.

Without knowing urllib, I would infer from the rest of the code that
you'd want to do something like this:

getparams['fuseaction'] = '*****'
postparams['num_card']  = '*****'

getparams = urllib.urlencode(getparams)
postparams = urllib.urlencode(postparams)  # may not be necessary
f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com?%s" % getparams, postparams)

-- 
Brian



From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 06:04:56 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:04:56 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bjcbha$vmp$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it>
>
> >> Moore's Law is working in favour of higher level languages even harder
> >> than it's working in favour of free but highly efficient OS's.
> >
> > There are two aspects:
> > (1) More power for same price - this works in favour of 'complex
software'
> > (2) Same power for less money - this works in favor of 'cheap software'
>
> And software is developed more cheaply in higher level languages than
> in lower level ones.  Therefore, both [1] and [2] work in favour of HLL's,
> which let you develop more complex software for the same price or the
> same software (software of the same functional complexity, but more
> often than not somewhat hungrier of hardware resources) faster & cheaper.

No one will ever dispute this. The question is however: How much HLL is
enough? Why are purely functional languages practically unknown?

[Some absulutely convincing remarks and well structured destription of the
current situation on the server market by Alex]

My original point in answer to Facundu Bastidas' remark was: IF the hardware
costs had not dropped down to the same order as (base!) software costs, than
Linux would not have had any chance! This is still what I think with my zero
knowledege.


My other point was that there nothing like that is going on in the software
development business. The price of tools is of no significance. It is the
(expected increase of productivity) The DoD Ada is the best example I can
think of.

We have not yet reached the situation, where the vendor includea all the
hardware you need when you buy a program.

> >> Not necessarily.  If common programmers only knew machine language,
> >> it would still be cheaper to use any available high-level language,
> >> say COBOL, even if you needed to supply training for it (it's not
> >> hard to teach COBOL to somebody who knows assembly, anyway -- the
> >> reverse is harder).
> > I am on your way; maybe they more probably would be trained for some
> > "macro language". This is no 'paradigm change'. Most C++ programmers (I
> > know what I say!) write C programs.

> History proves you are wrong: in practice, COBOL was what took over
> the market for business application development, *NOT* macro assembly
> as you claim would "more probably" happen.  A paradigm change, to be
> sure, but it's what DID win historically.  By ignoring history, as
> you're doing, you may not be doomed to repeat it, but you sure do
> handicap grievously your chances to predict the future.

Please! I do nor ignore history! I hypothetically predicted something what I
know did not happen, but what would have been more plausible. It did not
happen because the number of programmers was small at that time. In fact not
COBOL took over but RPG, to correct your historical background.

> (And no crap about "marketing" being responsible for it, please: in
> the '60 the _only_ heavily marketed programming language was IBM's
> PL/I... and it lost to not-heavily-marketed COBOL and Fortran, as
> its technical complexity was just too high on too many issues, in
> terms of both programmer training and productivity, and implementation
> complexity and resulting bugginess).

Yes.

A > Similarly, using Python can lower costs even
A> if you factor in training costs (again, teaching Python to good
A> Cobol programmers is quite easy -- other higher-level languages may
A> not be _quite_ as cheap in these terms, admittedly, but still the
A> economics aren't _hugely_ different).

In most companies you do not train programmers but (try to) hire experienced
staff.

> Those practices which do increase productivity do tend to get used
> more: OOP, RAD and configuration control are heavily prevalent today,
> and XP and test-driven design are making great strides.

Yes.

> > Python is by no means a "perfect" alternative to  - lets say: DOT-NET
> > and C#  - the advantages are difficult to see for persons in power or -
I
> > mentiones the tool costs - are of minor relevance.

> Python may get in "sneakily" -- because programmers love it or because
> a desperate pennypincher has no alternative to saving "minor-relevance"
> money as it can't attack the major-relevant budget items anyway -- and
> proves itself enough that even "persons in power" (which aren't _always_
> total idiots) see its advantages.  See the "Python Success Stories"
> for many examples.  As the evidence accumulates, Python also starts
> getting in non-sneakily, by executive decision rather than by the above
> means -- and keeps proving itself.

We shall wish that.

> And Moore's Law is absolutely crucial to this relentless trend.

I see no reason why not C# and .NET will be the winners!?
...
> > I should as well like to discuss your aspect of programmer's
productivity.
> > This is an important  factor. However all investigations show that
> > programmer's productivity is an unmeasurable quantity.
>
> Once again, you are totally wrong, and moreover, you are wrong in an
> assertion that you choose to express in the broadest, unqualified terms.

I was  very well aware of what I was saying ;-)

> Lutz Prechelt's study, the best-known example of empirical investigation
> of programmer productivity, show Python and Perl ruling the roost, and
> grinding e.g. Java into the dust.
Bu some coincidence I came over that study some months ago (googling for
some Python matter). I was impressed by the thouroughness of the study but
not of the result. The study concentrated on coding and some string/pattern
matching related task
There will be different results when doing embedded applications

> This only confirms in a specific case
> study the well-know results of the Function Point community: the higher
> level a language, the least amount of code per FP it needs, the higher
> the productivity in all phases of coding and maintenance.

Coding is agreed, maintenance is still questionable.

>
> >  .... what the programmer likes to do. If he or she would like to
> > program in Python everything would be fine. However most or today's
> > programmers like to do what is called "mainstream" (circular reasoning,
I
> > know) That is a little bit document driven development, some UML charts,
> > Visual Studio, something inbetween C and C++, C# and Java, and MS
Office.
>
> As long as those are the skills that employers request, those are the
> skills most employees will cultivate, of course.

This is one of the problems, thus:.
> > This can only change if there is competition. Competition means a Killer
> > Application that could be sold for half the price of the nearest
> > competitor because the developing costs had been such low!
> >
> > Do it with Python then and show it to the world  ;-)

> It's been done more than once, and it's being done again as we speak,
> many times over -- again, see the Python Success Stories.  Google is
> an example that didn't choose to submit all details of its Python
> success -- but Norvig, Google's search-quality director, has stated
> unambiguously what a crucial role Python has played and still plays
> in Google's amazing ongoing success.  The Open-Source Applications
> Foundation is doing the same with Chandler, a personal information
> manager application.

It is not clear whether this is just a niche market like e.g. MATLAB.

> Once again, it appears that your assertions are based on essentially
> zero knowledge about the subjects you're prattling about.

Well, it appears so....

Kindly
Michael P





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep  1 16:29:11 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 20:29:11 GMT
Subject: My script is taking 12 hours+ any suggestions?
References: <3f4ff9f8$0$23588$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <bj0a6n$lp2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:08:24 -0400, Ideasman <cpbarton at pacific.net.au> wrote:

>Hi I have a made a script that process normals for a flat shaded 3D mesh's.
>It compares every vert with every other vert to look for verts that can 
>share normals and It takes ages.
n*(n-1)/2 can be big. How big is it in your case?
Others have suggested using a dict to avoid that kind of search. Take the advice,
unless the whole problem is bogus somehow, in which case find that out first.

>
>I'm not asking anyone to rewrite the script- just have a look for any 
>stupid errors that might be sucking up time.
>
Some thoughts:

Check your memory usage. If your data set is huge, you could be paging and killing all
semblance of performance.

Upgrade to 2.3, so you can benefit from its speedups and neato features.

Perhaps go back to whoever produced the source data and see if this apparent editing
of a text file is really the best way to accomplish your end goal.

For more detailed help with the file, post enough of an example and explanation to
spec it exactly. There may be ways to avoid stuff you are doing.

Further thoughts, if you really have to do what you are doing:

Try timing it, so you know where the time is going. (See time, profile, hotshot modules).

Don't use eval to convert strings to numeric values (use int(s) or float(s))
Don't re-evaluate expressions (especially complex ones) even twice in a hot loop.
Don't evaluate constant (with respect to current loop, not necessarily globally constant)
      expressions within a loop (hoist them out to outer loops, and break them into
      subexpressions that can be hoisted out as far as possible.
Don't create and store redundant information.
Don't index through a list when you can iterate through it. Use enumerate if you need an index in parallel.
Don't walk through a sequence to find something if you can use a dict to look it up directly.
Don't leave stuff like str(saneFloat(NormX)) in code you expect to go fast.
      I.e., clean out desperate hacks that you don't really know what they are doing,
      and fix any problems that reemerge properly ;-)
Don't use builtin names like float, str, int, etc. for your own variable or parameter names.
      It will bite you eventually.
If your input text is well formatted, perhaps sorting chunks as text can accomplish some useful grouping.
Consider decorate-sort to group things according to some computed feature value.
Or use a dict with list values as suggested by others.
Look at zip and/or list comprehensions for creating/manipulating sequences.

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 00:41:13 2003
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 21:41:13 -0700
Subject: advice choosing IDE
References: <bhqe4p$23loq$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0309072041.10706579@posting.google.com>

Lupe <lupe at netvisao.pt> wrote in message news:<bhqe4p$23loq$1 at ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> I'm convinced to try Python! 
> 
> I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
> learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.
> 
> What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
> background of Pascal and VB for MS Office?  I've definitely changed to
> Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
> oriented programming.
> 
> I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
> debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.
> 
> Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!
> 
> With all this in mind what would be your recommendation?  I've read so many
> posts on the subject that I'm confused.  For a beginner, I just need one
> solution...
> 
> Lupe


your best bet is Komodo from ActiveState . . . not free but definately
worth the money. The other bet is Visual Python from guess who,
ActiveState it add great support for Python to Visual Studio 6 / .Met

Last choice would be Visual SlickEdit . . .

other than that, Python IDE choices are all just glorified color coded
crappy text editors.



From jcjouffre at bigfoot.com  Fri Sep 19 05:14:55 2003
From: jcjouffre at bigfoot.com (jcj)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 02:14:55 -0700
Subject: variable to be transmitted from a CGI script to a module
References: <4568052b.0309180125.5fd4919a@posting.google.com> <Qpmab.5255$9G2.4299@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4568052b.0309190114.75a2d03f@posting.google.com>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Qpmab.5255$9G2.4299 at twister.southeast.rr.com>...
> Read also the thread "How to pass parameter to a module?"
> M-a-S
> 

you're right, the proper solution is :

import sys
print sys.modules['__main__'].myVariable

thanks a lot



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 08:54:21 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:54:21 +0100
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87n0d26yv6.fsf@pobox.com>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> writes:

> I have to agree with the assertion that theKompany.com very slow to update
> the web site, hence the reason why I have sort of taken it upon myself to do
> something about it. I work for theKompany.com and no matter how hard I push,
> nothing ever seems to get done. They all agree that improvement have to be
> made. TheKompany.com will still handle sales but my web site will handle
> promotion and marketing - www.rygannon.com
[...]

We have to give you full marks for honesty, I think.  :-)


John



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Tue Sep 23 11:44:13 2003
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:44:13 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
In-Reply-To: <GhQbb.196$eB.92@twister.southeast.rr.com>
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <m2eky8dtny.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <GhQbb.196$eB.92@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <hTZbb.2427$gi2.1120@fed1read01>

M-a-S wrote:
>>>Some more looping thoughts - this time on integer for loops...
> 
> 
> I guess this should be a matter of optimization. Why don't the Python
> compiler recognize 'for <var> in [x]range(<from>,<till>):'? It should be
> pretty easy. Microsoft does marvels optimizing loops in C. Why an open
> source project like Python can't do it?

FWIW, Psyco recognizes this structure and removes the overhead 
associated with it.

-tim




From llothar at web.de  Sun Sep  7 06:21:25 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 03:21:25 -0700
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
References: <mailman.1062873250.31920.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309061534.5f8cf00f@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.09.06.23.51.35.802469@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309070221.61734da4@posting.google.com>

Simon Burton <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.09.06.23.51.35.802469 at webone.com.au>...
> hmmm... I think (some) static analysis may be possible. The main
> thing to exclude is eval/exec but even then, yes you're right, some
> programs would just have to be run to find out what they do.
> 

Whats with code like:

if foo:
   def myfunc():
       ... do something
else:
   def myfunc():
       ... calling your_func()


A Language where the program calling hierarchie depends on runtime
calculations is not able to provide good refactoring tools or static
flow analysis. This is the huge difference to a language like
Smalltalk where we live in an image.

And if you say that this is a hack, then you are making a big mistake,
look at currently used code and you will find so much uses of this
style (or even worse styles) that it seems to be a common paradigm.



From bowman at montana.com  Sun Sep 28 21:30:27 2003
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:30:27 -0600
Subject: Home Environment
References: <mailman.1064794658.12617.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bl81t9$95pfq$1@ID-159066.news.uni-berlin.de>

Sperry Russ wrote:

> 
> Warning: HOME environment variable points to
>  %USERPROFILE%
>  but the path does not exist.
> 
> What should I do to fix this?

Do you hsve a home directory? I don't believe 2000 creates one by default 
when creating a new user. You could either echo %userprofile% to see where 
it thinks your home is, and create it, or just create one and set HOME to 
point to it. 



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Fri Sep 12 07:50:20 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:50:20 -0700
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
Message-ID: <1063367420.3f61b2fc3e56a@mcherm.com>

I (Michael Chermside) wrote:
> > I started by looking for use cases... where would this proposed
> > pass-by-reference actually prove useful? Stephen basically found
> > one good use case:
> > 
> >   I wish to "transfer ownership" of an object that gets passed
> >   into a method call, and protect against the caller accidently
> >   continuing to use the object. [So, we'll use a "ref" parameter and
> >   set the caller's variable to None.]

Duncan Booth replies:
> That only works if the caller hasn't assigned that object to any other 
> variables. If they have, they can still accidentally continue to use the 
> object. Since you have to trust the caller anyway, why not trust them to 
> stop using the object?

Indeed, his use case is not the strong "provides actual security against
misuse", but the MUCH weaker "protects against against one particular
(fairly common) caller error which is so simple a mistake it would likely
be caught by good unit tests anyhow". Which is part of why all agree
that it's such a weak use case.

-- Michael Chermside





From linuxlists at chargedideas.com  Fri Sep  5 10:25:47 2003
From: linuxlists at chargedideas.com (Andres Montiel)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 22:25:47 +0800
Subject: [wee bit OT] UML tutorials
Message-ID: <1062771947.3200.1.camel@kyutums>

Could anyone point me to a UML tutorial for newbies? I couldn't find one
that was downloadable (I use dial-up and connecting to the 'net is
expensive in our country).

Thanks. :)

- Andre





From a.edmondson at eris.qinetiq.com  Wed Sep 24 09:26:07 2003
From: a.edmondson at eris.qinetiq.com (Ed)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:26:07 +0100
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
Message-ID: <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com>

If you're UNIX based:

os.system('xyz') will return the exit status of your program xyz.
More importantly for you, it will return!

So try an (ugly) loop like:

import os
while 1:
        os.system('xyz')


-Ed

ataraxia2500 wrote:

> I wanna do a script that launch a programm xyz and relaunch xyz if it
> crashes. what kind of module do I need for such a task?

-- 
Andrew Edmondson
Senior Analyst
QinetiQ Malvern
Tel: +44 1684 897433
Mobile: +44 794 1103773
PGP Key:
http://search.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEE814DC
PGP Fingerprint: 7B32 4D1E AC4F 29E2 9EAA 9550 1A3D BBA4 CEE8 14DC




From adsheehan at eircom.net  Thu Sep 25 13:24:03 2003
From: adsheehan at eircom.net (Alan Sheehan)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 10:24:03 -0700
Subject: Using Jython with JSPs
Message-ID: <f4a45085.0309250924.20d14f0e@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am re-engineering a lot of existing Web JSPs and hoping to have each
JSP execute a Python script to specify the page contents i.e. a easy
way for end users to modify aspects of the pages without deep Java
know-how.

I have proven the above by creating an interpreter in each page and
simply executing a script file.

I have performance concerns with the above and would like to
pre-create one or more interpreters in the JVM that can be reused by
the JSPs.

Is the above possible and how ? I use Apache or Tomcat as the Web
Server.

Thanks
Alan



From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Wed Sep 24 17:54:34 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:54:34 GMT
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <09a3d6364c.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <2c60a528.0309240338.1e4dd261@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uoocb.691$291.949392743@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

What is wrong with meta-refresh?

"Andrew Clover" <and-google at doxdesk.com> wrote in message
news:2c60a528.0309240338.1e4dd261 at posting.google.com...
> Tim Howarth <tim at worthy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > print "Location: http://abcxyz/index.html"
>
> > AFAIUI it simply sends a redirect header.
>
> Yep; however, if you include a relative URI with no hashpart:
>
>   print 'Location: /index.html'
>   print
>
> Then the server should send that page to the browser directly, without
> sending a redirect back to the browser. This may be preferable in
> some cases.
>
> (The second print is needed to end the CGI response headers.)
>
> Full spec here:
>
>   http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/cgi/interface.html
>
> (Using JavaScript or meta-refresh to do redirects is almost always a
> really terrible idea.)
>
> -- 
> Andrew Clover
> mailto:and at doxdesk.com
> http://www.doxdesk.com/





From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Thu Sep 11 18:42:05 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:42:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Web server with Python
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3f60fa3d-a26c0463-9b36-4152-a986-61060ca18017@news.szn.dk>

Thomas Weholt wrote:

>> - must be able to use Python 2.3 to create dynamic pages
>
> If you can use anything found on www.zope.org under resource and
> like to do everything in a webpage, not doing much programming
> yourself, then Zope might be the thing.

However, Zope still doesn't run on Python 2.3, does it?


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Sep 16 08:05:15 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:05:15 GMT
Subject: wanted($):  mac and linux python gui coders for porting
References: <EHr9b.36540$n94.18214@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <%%C9b.11601$3Y2.9198@news2.central.cox.net>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> wrote in message
news:EHr9b.36540$n94.18214 at fed1read04...
> (I apologize in advance if this is not an appropriate posting)
>
> I have written a simple windows shareware app, EzPicMailer, in Python 2.3,
> wxPython 2.4.1, and PIL 1.1.4  that lets computer novices find photo
files,
> edit them, and mail them, all in one simple app.  Everyone is encouraged
to
> check out my beta version at http://EzPicMailer.com.
>
> I wrote it to be cross-platform except for a small amout of windows code
to
> do the system beep and to find the desktop and home folders.
>
> Now I need a Mac programmer and a Linux programmer to port to these
> environments for me.  I'm new to shareware but I'm guessing that paying
10%
> of gross license receipts would be fair.  I put in close to 200 hours into
> the app and I'm assuming that 20 hours to do a decent looking port would
be
> about right, which gives 10% of the effort.  Let me know if I'm off-base
> here.
>
> You will also be responsible for a second line of support for your
platform.
> In other words you will need to fix problems particular to your platform
to
> keep your royalty flow.  You will not have to talk to customers though.
> That is what I mean by second-line.
>
> If you are interested, please tell me about yourself and point me to some
of
> your existing work with GUI's.
>

Mark:

I don't think anyone would complain about your post. You might, however, get
a better response if you create a SourceForge project and add to the "help
wanted" list there. People do scour that list from time to time. You'll also
learn a lot about CVS :-)

Good luck with your project.

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep 26 12:14:45 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 17:14:45 +0100
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
References: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com> <3f71361f$0$97182$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <bZecb.14514$KJ5.11624@fe2.columbus.rr.com> <874qz22jah.fsf@pobox.com> <5mncb.14032$cK5.5101@fe1.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <87r823bk7e.fsf@pobox.com>

amonroejj at yahoo.com (R. Alan Monroe) writes:

> In article <874qz22jah.fsf at pobox.com>, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:
> 
> >> >Why not let the client ask directly if it is faster?
> 
> >> I thought that defeats the purpose of having 3 tiers. You'd have to 
> >> update the client if/every time business rules changed. Unless I'm 
> >[...]
> >
> >Why?  The client asks the client in terms of "business logic", the
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Not sure what you meant to say here?

The client asks the server, sorry.


> Let's say I want to see all the tickets I worked on in the previous 
> calendar year. The server can get this from the DB in 1 second. But if 
> the server has to spend 30, 60 or more seconds getting those results 
> back to me, the client, the system wouldn't be worth using, in my 
> opinion.

"So don't do that", was the point that somebody was making.  Worry
about the big issue of what network traffic you'll have and how many
round trips, not the small issue of the particular means of transport
of that traffic.


> I _have_ used systems that returned a subset of matching records to 
> the client, and found it very uncomfortable. That's why in my system I 
> want to scratch my own itch, and return all the records.

Fair enough.  Would have to know more to comment.


John



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Sep 18 12:29:16 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 12:29:16 -0400
Subject: Multithreading and locking
References: <bkbv5l$kgl$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <bkcmgs$d8t$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <bkbv5l$kgl$1 at bagan.srce.hr>, Ivan Voras <ivoras at fer.hr> wrote:
>
>Is it true what I heard (as a "rumour" of sorts), that in multithreaded
>Python programs global variables are already automagically protected by
>mutexes? Can someone clarify on that?

In addition to Duncan's excellent answer, I'd suggest that if you're
using phrases like "global variables", you probably want to learn more
about how Python's object model works in addition to learning more about
writing good threaded programs.  You want to avoid sharing mutable names
across threads as much as possible.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep  9 12:17:16 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 09:17:16 -0700
Subject: Ternery operator
Message-ID: <1063124236.3f5dfd0c1adfc@mcherm.com>

> [Michael, shouting]
> > NOT TRUE!
> > 
> > NEITHER of your options does short-circuit evaluation.

Richie Hindle:
> > Er:
> 
> >>> def one():
>         print 1
>         return 1
> 
> >>> def two():
>         print 2
>         return 2
> 
> >>> (True and [one()] or [two()])[0]
> 1
> 1
> >>> (False and [one()] or [two()])[0]
> 2
> 2
> >>> 

 [...]

> [Not condoning the use of this idiom, just correcting a factual error.]

Well, I was shouting to be sure I was heard, because I was pretty
sure I was right, and was worried about spreading misinformation. Well,
I clearly should have worried a bit harder. You are correct, the idiom
    (<condition> and [<true-branch>] or [<false-branch>])[0]
_does_ indeed short circuit correctly. And now it's ME who's spreading
misinformation. Sorry.

Of course it's still an ugly idiom. But there's a distinction between
ugly-but-works and ugly-and-wrong.

-- Michael Chermside





From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 28 13:03:56 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 18:03:56 +0100
Subject: Access to database other web sites
References: <b125f336.0309260753.189000d8@posting.google.com> <87n0crbi8z.fsf@pobox.com> <vnbat5ma1ti9ae@corp.supernews.com> <87eky2574t.fsf@pobox.com> <vndmokovguln15@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87eky0g803.fsf@pobox.com>

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
[...John wrote:]
> >What I was wondering was where the sales data are going to come from.
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> That's a typical part.  As I understand Jenny, she's going
> to look at, say, eBay, and correlate "sales" with "price"
> and "marketing" variables.


Oh, ebay, I see.  I was thinking about non-auction sites.  On auction
sites, some of the sales data are public, I suppose.


John



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Sep 18 02:53:37 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:53:37 +0200
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309180913520.24128@sampo.csc.fi>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309180913520.24128@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <3F695671.4090109@ghaering.de>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
> is connected to the Internet? [...]

No. You need to craft a platform-specific solution for this task. On 
Windows, I'd look into the RAS stuff in the third-party win32all package.

-- Gerhard




From hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl  Fri Sep 12 08:08:06 2003
From: hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:08:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
References: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063106894.20701.python-list@python.org> <bjkkjp$jvkvt$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbm3dp0.skp.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:54:41 +0200, Martin Schneider <martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de> wrote:
> Hi, Gerhard,
> 
> thanks for your answer :-)
> 
> Here's my python code:
> 
> for i in range(len(fileList)-1):
>  for j in range(len(fileList)-i-1):
>   if fileList[j+1] < fileList[j]:
>    tmp = fileList[j]
>    fileList[j] = fileList[j+1]
>    fileList[j+1] = tmp
> 
> Of course I don't know what Python does here internally.

You are modifying lists in-place, which means no copies of the data and
no copies of the lists are made, everything is done using pointer
copying (and updating reference counts).

>> It's best to have an array of pointers to structs. Then in
>> your bubble-sort algorithm, only exchange the pointers, don't copy the
>> structs themselves.
> 
> Okay - I'll try that :-)

That should make a huge difference for anything but the simplest data.
Also, using a better sort algorithm should improve performance
dramatically (i.e. compare your code versus the builtin sort() function
of lists).

>> So if you make your C code as
>> smart as Python automatically is <wink>, your C code should be a hell of
>> a lot faster than your Python code :-)
> 
> Maybe :-) I'll let you know.

It probably will not become slower :-)


Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 14:35:40 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:35:40 GMT
Subject: None, False, True
Message-ID: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Can anybody explain this:

Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>
>>> None = 3
<stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
>>> False = 4
>>> True = 5
>>>
>>> None, False, True
(3, 4, 5)
>>>






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep 29 17:54:16 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 17:54:16 -0400
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bla9m8$1ae$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <vngnif6v8ip4c6 at corp.supernews.com>,
Edward K. Ream <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:
>
>I've just about convinced myself there is no good, clean solution to the
>following puzzle.  I wonder if you agree.
>
>1. My app has a module called leoGlobals that contains often-used global
>functions.  All of Leo's source files start with:
>
>from leoGlobals import *
>
>I don't want to discuss whether this is good style: it is simple and it
>works well for me :-)

Okay, I won't discuss, I'll just tell you that this is a recipe for
giving yourself a headache.  Have fun.  ("Doctor, it hurts when I do
this."  "Well, stop doing that, then.")
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From jtlis at pf.NOSPAM.pl  Mon Sep 15 16:22:17 2003
From: jtlis at pf.NOSPAM.pl (Tomasz Lisowski)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:22:17 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <bjml1l$fd9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bk570k$qle$1@flis.man.torun.pl>

Uzytkownik "Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> napisal w wiadomosci
news:bjml1l$fd9$00$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Marco Herrn wrote:
>
> > 1. How to do the import? I didn't find a way to give a string to the
> >    import statement.
> >
> > 2. How to write such code to instantiate?
>
> Off topic: This thread like some others is spread over a few toplevel
> entries in my newsreader (KNode 0.7.2). Is this a bug?
>
> Anyway, putting it all together:
>
> import sys
>
> def getClass(classname, modulename):
>     try:
>         module = sys.modules[modulename]
>     except KeyError:
>         module = __import__(modulename)
>     return getattr(module, classname)

Hmm...

Why not write it directly:

def getClass(classname, modulename):
    try:
        module = __import__(modulename)
    except ImportError:
        return None
    else:
        return getattr(module, classname)

I have heard, that the __import__ function is smart enough to check the
sys.modules dictionary without actually re-importing the once imported
module. Is it true?

Regards,
Tomasz Lisowski






From scribe at linuxht.com  Thu Sep  4 00:18:38 2003
From: scribe at linuxht.com (Scribe)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:18:38 GMT
Subject: strings
Message-ID: <y2z5b.81796$bo1.42513@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hi
Somewhat new to Python and would appreciated some help in selecting the 
best builtins to achieve what I want.
I pass a string to a function, it is either
empty
spaces
alpha and digits
or
a decimal ie. 5,789.88
if it is a decimal I want to return the number without the commer any 
others return 0.
Should be simple or maybe I am.
Any help apreciated.




From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Sep 18 02:16:03 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:16:03 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309180913520.24128@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi all,

I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with sockets
and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.

Cheers,

Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi




From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Wed Sep 17 15:48:27 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:48:27 -0500
Subject: "New" style classes
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624CA1@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Tobiah [mailto:toby at rcsreg.com] 
> 
> I gather that a "new style" class inherits from object.
> 
> Is this to be considered the way to make all classes
> from now on?  If not, when will I know to inherit from
> object?  I noticed that it clutters up pydoc output.

If you don't know if you need to inherit from object, it's probably not
going to make a difference. (There are semantic differences for e.g.
metaclasses, descriptors and other things that are rarely used ;-) The
only real issue I can remember is that you'll need to use new style
classes if you want properties.

Eventually, there will only be "new style" classes, but by then
inheriting from object might be implicit. In other words... hakuna
matata.

-- bjorn




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sat Sep  6 04:36:10 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 02:36:10 -0600
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
In-Reply-To: <MPOdna7Mo8NY3ceiU-KYuA@comcast.com>
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <MPOdna7Mo8NY3ceiU-KYuA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <200309060236.10962.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Saturday 06 September 2003 02:17 pm, Terry Reedy wrote:
> The main virtue of the inst.meth(*rest) abbreviation, with klass made
> implicit, is not just to save typing the klass name but to push
> determination of which 'klass' to the runtime inheritance tree,

Pardon me if this was mentioned previously, but another benefit is to simplify 
the process of passing methods or stand-alone functions around - the user of 
such functions doesn't have to differentiate between the two:

class Foo:
  def OnEvent(self, a, b):
    print 'Method', a, b

def Listener(a, b):
  print 'Function', a,b

def SomeEventGenerator(eventListener):
  eventListener(5, 6)

SomeEventGenerator doesn't care if the callback is actually a method or a 
function. Both these work just fine:

f = Foo()
SomeEventGenerator(foo.OnEvent)
SomeEventGenerator(Listener)

Obviously, if the shorthand inst.meth(*rest) wasn't available there would 
probably be another way to do the same thing, but "inst.meth" is concise and 
does what you'd expect.

-Dave




From halloleo.PLEASE at NOSPAM.gmx.net  Mon Sep  1 20:04:06 2003
From: halloleo.PLEASE at NOSPAM.gmx.net (Leo)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:04:06 +1000
Subject: just a beep
Message-ID: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi there

i want python to do a beep.

in the docu i found in tkinter the method
	bell()
but the script:
	import Tkinter
	Tkinter.bell()
gives the error:
	AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'bell'

so how can i make python beep? (maybe even without the tkinter overhead?)

cheers, leo





From freddycooper01 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 19:16:39 2003
From: freddycooper01 at yahoo.com (Freddy)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 16:16:39 -0700
Subject: Turning Strings into Functions
Message-ID: <46610d4e.0309251516.45a8eb01@posting.google.com>

How do you turn a string into a callable function? I'm writing a
program which takes user input and then looks up the associated
function to run from a shelved dictionary. So, I have a dictionary
with entries like this:
myDict["Case1"] = {"desc":"This is Case1", "func1": "Handler1",
"func2" : "Handler2", "args": "ACCEPT"}

Then my program gets the string "Case 1" from the user, and needs to
assign func1 and func2 as handlers for certain events.
The argument to the handlers are sockets, and I can't know in advance
what they will be.

I need to assign the handler function before it is called. So I need
to turn the string into a function (there IS a function in this module
called Handler1() ). I don't think I can use an exec call, because
that would require me to build a string with the argument first.

Any suggestions?

Freddy



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 21:33:26 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:33:26 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com> <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli9pochlcoc8e@news.supernews.com> <bjbb57$bb2$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <vliectetv25iab@news.supernews.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:bjbb57$bb2$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:15:00 -0400, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com>
wrote:
> [...]
>
> >If you don't have to write "self" as the first parameter of a method,
> >that reduces the complexity. Everything else remains the same.
> >
> Except for cases where two self-parameters are visible at the same time,
> and both are used in an inner scope and must be distinguished by giving
> them different names. ISTM you'd have to turn off some dynamic
capabilities
> of python to make "self" implicit. (An example came up in a past
discussion,
> some time ago).

You could still give them different names. The proposal is to eliminate
the need to specify "self" in the method header, not in the code in the
method body. That's a different issue, and I don't know of any language
that manages to do it consistently.

John Roth
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter





From my at mail.ru  Wed Sep  3 08:28:40 2003
From: my at mail.ru (Kerim)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:28:40 +0400
Subject: Location of bytecode files (pyc)
References: <6f03c4a5.0309021745.3a79d951@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f55de7b@shknews01>

"Rim" <rimbalaya at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6f03c4a5.0309021745.3a79d951 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> How can I control the location of the bytecode files?
>
> The reason I ask is I want to place the bytecode in a directory
> different than source code for backup reasons. Our backup system is
> directory based and I only want to have source code backed up, not
> object files or pyc files.

If you're on Windows say:

del /S *.pyc

to remove all .pyc's from cwd and below.

>
> Thanks,
> -Rim





From daniel.rawson.take!this!out! at asml.nl  Thu Sep 18 14:17:39 2003
From: daniel.rawson.take!this!out! at asml.nl (Dan Rawson)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:17:39 -0400
Subject: Forcing getopt to process a specific option first??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063904906.2762.python-list@python.org>
References: <bkcnkd$8ml6$1@ID-122008.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063904906.2762.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F69F6C3.50605@asml.nl>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Dan> Is there any way to force getopt to process one option first??  I'd
>     Dan> like to be able to pass in the name of a configuration file for my
>     Dan> application, then have the remaining command-line parameters
>     Dan> over-ride the configuration file if they are present.
> 
> Not that I'm aware of.  If the order of the remaining options doesn't
> matter, you might try splitting the argument list before the option which
> introduces your config file.  For example, given this set of command line
> args:
> 
>     -f bar -o baz -c configfile -o bump -h
> 
> locate the '-c' and use it to split the argument list, then swap the two
> pieces:
> 
>     >>> s = "-f bar -o baz -c configfile -o bump -h"
>     >>> args = s.split()
>     >>> args
>     ['-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz', '-c', 'configfile', '-o', 'bump', '-h']
>     >>> index = args.index('-c')
>     >>> index
>     4
>     >>> args[:index], args[index:]
>     (['-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz'], ['-c', 'configfile', '-o', 'bump', '-h'])
>     >>> args = args[index:] + args[:index]
>     >>> args
>     ['-c', 'configfile', '-o', 'bump', '-h', '-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz']
> 
> Now pass that list to getopt.getopt().
> 
> If the order of the remaining arguments does matter, you just split the
> argument list into three pieces, the part before rearranging:
> 
>     >>> args[:index], args[index:index+2], args[index+2:]
>     (['-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz'], ['-c', 'configfile'], ['-o', 'bump', '-h'])
>     >>> args = args[index:index+2] + args[:index] + args[index+2:]
>     >>> args
>     ['-c', 'configfile', '-f', 'bar', '-o', 'baz', '-o', 'bump', '-h']
> 
> Skip
> 
Thanks!  Either this solution or the one Peter Otten proposed will work . . .

Wow, two good solutions in an hour . . . .

Dan




From etiennelabuschagne at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  9 03:35:37 2003
From: etiennelabuschagne at hotmail.com (Etienne Labuschagne)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 00:35:37 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cfe7fd4a.0309082335.35c97338@posting.google.com>

1st, 2nd and 3rd Boa Constructor

I find this quite stable on Windows (latest version 0.2.3) and I find
the following it's best features:

o THE BEST Zope support for a free IDE - create Zope objects such as
Files, DTML Documents, Page Templates, etc.  Debug Zope Python
Scripts, external methods, Zope itself, and to a limited extent, DTML
documents and Page Templates!
o Out of process debugger that can attach to remote Python processes
and debug Zope (THE best feature!), in multiple threads!  Debugger can
be a bit tempremental, but it's very powerful (I have debugged
client's systems over the internet!)
o Multiple transports - edit files on the file system, through FTP,
Webdav, etc.
o Nice editor, with tabbed view of all open files, full Regular
expression search and replace functionality (over multiple files),
reindetation function, code and parameter completion, code highliting
and hyperlink-like "jump to declaration".  Lots of other things not
mentioned here.
o wxPython GUI development (code generation, no XML)

There are some niggles, but personally I have found it quite stable
and VERY feature rich and probably the most feature rich environment
for Python and Zope. (I'm beginning to sound like a Zealot)

4th. PythonWin
A nice "side kick" to Boa for the very few things it does better than
Boa, has a nifty "Post mortem" debugger that breaks execution on an
exception (and rolls back to just before the exception).



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Sep  8 18:45:23 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:45:23 +1000
Subject: Ternary operator
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD4CEA@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Paul Moore [mailto:pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk]
> 
> My feeling is that there is a majority who want a ternary operation
> (not including me, but what the heck) but that there is violent
> disagreement on the syntax.

I would disagree with this. My reading of the discussion, voting, etc was that the majority would not *oppose* a ternary operator, if a reasonable syntax could be agreed on. Most people also seemed to agree that a major advantage of having a definite syntax was that it would shut up the constant questions about it (note: *a* major advantage - not *the*).

The definition of "reasonable syntax" was what destroyed this.

FWIW, I definitely fall in the "would not oppose" group, and not the "actively want" group. I prefer not to use a ternary operator in any language. My bias may well be affecting my understanding.

Tim Delaney




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 09:05:01 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 14:05:01 +0100
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours> <bjco6f$fsc$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87n0dhpm1t.fsf@pobox.com> <bjel6h$dd4$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <8765k44uma.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

> Hi John,
> "John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com>
[...]
> These "users" need help, and I think they will get it from Python better
> than from most other sources. However someone has to make these tools,
> operating systems, embedded systems. This is a different task: it's Software
> Engineering.

This is just an arbitrary.  In this popular view point, if you use an
interpreter, you're suddenly not programming any more, but merely
"scripting".  Applications programming, apparently, is on the same
level.  So, Bernhard Herzog, for example (sketch.sf.net) isn't a "real
programmer", and nor are the OSAF with their Chandler project.  Oookay.

[...]
> This is no longer the argument for "glue language". As to general
> application programming languages Python has its pros and cons and has to be
> compared to Java, C#, C++ and even maybe VisualBasic. And my just personal
> opinion is that I doubt that Python will "take over".

Michael, TBH, that paragraph appears to be entirely lacking in any
content -- at least, any I can understand.

I'm afraid I've reached the same conclusion as Alex -- you're really
not trying, so I find I've lost enthusiasm to reply any more to your
posts.

[...]
> > And you got out of bed in the morning three hours before you went to
> > sleep, I know ;-)
> 
> The situation was more complicated. Computer time was not free and during
> the normal work time there was not much chance to get a lot of CPU cycles.
> So we started to work when other people left off (between 6 and 7) I still
> today have my difficulties getting up early ;-)

:-)


John



From pweldon at mindspring.com  Fri Sep 19 23:44:18 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 03:44:18 GMT
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <m2Qab.44433$Aq2.6448@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

You could just use a look-up table; it'd be a lot faster than calculation.
After all, how many factorials could you possible use?  Seventy?

Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com

"Rogue9" <rogue9 at ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:3ee1e6f1 at shknews01...
> Pardon me but could anyone enlighten me if python2.2 has a math function
> to call to do factorials of integers?If not then is there a code snippet
> for doing such a thing available?I tried to write some code for this
> myself but with little success.
> Thanks
> Lol





From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep 30 12:01:46 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:01:46 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <cm1m41-hv6.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
 <m3smmfqa5l.fsf@ieee.org> <cddn41-je7.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
 <m38yo6r0t1.fsf@ieee.org> <6ojo41-424.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <m3vfrafeol.fsf@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

> Jorge Godoy fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 30 September 2003 
> 04:08 am:
>
>> 
>> I thought the same thing and even thought I was using os.spawnv() in a
>> wrong way. Even with the 'P_NOWAIT' flag it still hangs.
>>
>          I may have found the problem (surprised the experts didn't catch it).
>
> From your initial post:
>     os.spawnv('P_NOWAIT', 'another.py', ['another.py', parameters])
>
> You specified P_NOWAIT as a STRING. It should be a constant /in/ the os 
> module.

The most interesting thing is that I get an error in Windows but I
don't get such an error in Linux.

This is the output on an interactive session running on Linux:

>>> import os
>>> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, 'ls', ['ls', '*.py'])
790
>>> os.spawnv('os.P_NOWAIT', 'ls', ['ls', '*.py'])
127
>>> os.spawnv('P_NOWAIT', 'ls', ['ls', '*.py'])
127
>>> os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, 'ls', ['ls', '*.py'])
127
>>> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, 'ls', ['ls', '*.py'])
795
>>>

Now, on the Windows box:

>>> import os
>>> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, 'c:/python22/python.exe', ['c:/python22/python.exe'])
112
>>> os.spawnv('P_NOWAIT', 'c:/python22/python.exe', ['c:/python22/python.exe'])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in ?
    os.spawnv('P_NOWAIT', 'c:/python22/python.exe', ['c:/python22/python.exe'])
TypeError: an integer is required
>>>


And this is how I found out where was the problem.

>         Note the use of os.P_NOWAIT rather than your 'P_NOWAIT'

It indeed work. I'll replace the '1's with it on the code. 

>         If you want portability, this may be the way to go -- I just changed 
> the spawnv() call above from "./t1.py" to "python t1.py" and it still 
> ran on Linux. I'd presume it would also run on Windows (I'm not going 
> to reboot just to prove that)

Just if it is in the PATH, I suppose. I don't believe Windows scans
through all directories if it can't find the executable. 

>         NO THREADS NEEDED.

:-)
Solving the problem with os.P_NOWAIT is better than using threads. ;-) 

The problem was my misinterpretation of the docs (or maybe they don't
make it explicit that I must use the 'os.' prefix...):

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Help on function spawnv:

spawnv(mode, file, args)
    spawnv(mode, file, args) -> integer

    Execute file with arguments from args in a subprocess.
    If mode == P_NOWAIT return the pid of the process.
    If mode == P_WAIT return the process's exit code if it exits normally;
    otherwise return -SIG, where SIG is the signal that killed it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 10:05:33 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:05:33 +0100
Subject: extension call backs and the GIL
References: <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <bl93hp$mgc$1@panix3.panix.com> <OWWCyJAWcCe$EwUM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <6q4qyvep55.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <mnYYeaAtwDe$EwCt@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <6q4qyvep55.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de>, Bernhard Herzog
<bh at intevation.de> writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>>>You need to reacquire the GIL prior to making the callback.
>> So does calling an extension release the GIL?
>
>No. It would be very inconvenient if it did because what most functions
>do first is to call one of the PyArg_ParseTuple functions which could
>execute arbitrary python code.

Thank goodness for that :)

>
>I think it would help if you described a bit more what the actual
>problem is or what the user does. 
>
>I looked briefly at the sources and assuming tha the accelerator in
>question is lib/_rl_accel.c and the callback whatever has been assigned
>to _SWRecover, could it be that the problem is that your user tries to
>use different callbacks in different threads? _SWRecover is a global
>after all and shared by all threads.

I'm not certain, but yes I think that's probably what the problem comes
down to; if so I can claim there are already too many breakages in our
font system to worry about that :( 

>
>   Bernhard
>

-- 
Robin Becker



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Sep  4 17:55:36 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:55:36 +0200
Subject: Using python RPM on SuSE 8.1 : No libpython.a or libpython.so
	present. Why?
In-Reply-To: <ad2ca00b.0309040237.2205af33@posting.google.com>
References: <ad2ca00b.0309040237.2205af33@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F57B4D8.6010103@ghaering.de>

Douglass Turner wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to install a statistics package called RSPython that
> requires a python shared library to be present on my SuSE 8.1 linux
> box. My python is provide as an RPM package and as far as I can tell
> there is no libpython.a or libpython.so. What gives?
> 
> How do I get these libraries on my machine?

Python is split in several RPM packages in most Linux distributions. The 
one that will contain the files you need is the development package, 
commonly called python-devel, python-dev or the like. So just install 
that package via YaST2.

-- Gerhard




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 04:53:10 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:53:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
References: <b3Jcb.24430$dk4.777126@typhoon.sonic.net> <mailman.1064528557.22231.python-list@python.org> <79t6nvceo80m6cumskpqdmipa921da054o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns940263C40FEA8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in 
news:79t6nvceo80m6cumskpqdmipa921da054o at 4ax.com:

> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:19:00 -0700, Brian Quinlan <brian at sweetapp.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>> Well, since I'm not worried about "flexible", have my doubts about the
>>> "much slower" part,
>>
>>Your implementation is O(n) with the number of entries while the Python
>>implementation is O(log(n)). If n is small then your implementation
>>might be acceptably fast. Can't you just use the STL hash_map template
>>class?
> 
> Are you sure Python dictionaries are O(log n)? - Remember, they are
> based on hashing.
> 
> Simple hashing is O(1). Handling of collisions and stuff will affect
> that (and I'm no expert on hashing techniques) but I can't help
> wondering if you're confusing Pythons hashing with tree-based
> techniques.
> 

Python dictionaries are effectively O(1). Dictionaries are never more than 
2/3rds full, so on average a dictionary lookup only needs a couple of 
probes. Python's collision resolution is designed such that in most cases 
lookups that collide on the first attempt will diverge for the next 
attempt.

As some of the other posters have said dictionaries in Python have been 
tuned over many years, and since the whole of Python is based on fast 
dictionary lookups it is very unlikely that the OP will get close to the 
same efficiency. That may not matter though as Python dictionaries are 
tuned for general use, so a specific application might be able to do better 
by losing some of the generality.

Some of the tuning extends beyond dictionaries, for example strings are 
commonly used as dictionary keys, and Python avoids recalculating hash 
values more than once for each string. It is unlikely that a C or C++ 
programmer would go to the effort of using a string type that cached hash 
values throughout their application, so for many uses, string lookups in 
dictionaries will almost certainly be slower (although there could be gains 
elsewhere).

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Mon Sep 15 05:51:23 2003
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 09:51:23 GMT
Subject: Is there a web templating system like ruby's amrita ?
References: <6ee58e07.0309120421.622cb55@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk422r$386jr$2@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Lothar Scholz <llothar at web.de> wrote:
> I there anything that completely avoid the use of python code inside 
> a template. I like the Amrita system because it allows me to design
> the templates with WYSIWYG editors and blind text.

The TAL templates from ZOPE might be a solution.
A standalone solution without ZOPE is at
http://www.procoders.net/pythonstuff

Greetings, Uwe.

-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt   http://www.procoders.net                      
schmitt at procoders.net      "A service to open source is a service to mankind."



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep  8 08:34:44 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 13:34:44 +0100
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
References: <mailman.1062982932.16437.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fzj7cvbv.fsf@pobox.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) writes:

> <tim at pollenation.net> wrote:
> |2) as an image created in fireworks, I expected line spacing to honor
> |html spacing. It doesn't however so I've fixed it.
> 
> I don't know what 'fireworks' is, I suppose it must be some kind of design
> application.  But I figured the image was a screenshot of a rendered
> page... if not, it indeed might appear a bit different as rendered in an
> actual browser.
> 
> |1) it's an image
> 
> You keep writing this; not just to me, but on c.l.py too.  I can't quite
> figure out what relevance you perceive this fact to have.

I guess because people, seeing the .html file extension in the URL,
assumed that resizing fonts and sensible scaling to your browser
window should work (obviously, the .html extension is rather
misleading).  In fact, you were one of those people, David, IIRC --
wondering why the mockup only filled a little box inside your browser
window.  Quite a reasonable question for people to ask, but no need to
get grumpy about it when he answers it.


> |2) images don't have font tags
> 
> Nope... but screenshot images can be made of browsers displaying pages
> with font tags.  I was guessing in the negative that your page was
> produced (indirectly) from such an HTML document; but perhaps no HTML was
> ever involved.

It seems fairly clear by now that the purpose of the mockup was to
give a quick feeling of the visual design (and people's violent
reactions to the 'corporateness' of it and to the colour scheme show
is was successful in that).  Equally clearly, that isn't going to tell
people a lot of other important stuff (no point in repeating those
things here).  Does that mean the mockup is valueless?  Far from it!
Visual design is at least somewhat decoupled from HTML now, thanks to
the not-entirely-broken CSS implementations in many (most?) deployed
browsers.  He implies that it's simpler for him to set up the visual
design in some non-HTML app -- fine: he, as the artist, knows best
which media he can work most quickly in.  If using such an app enables
the design in its current form to be quickly eliminated (quite
possibly by evolution to a better design, rather than dropping it
entirely), he has successfully sped up the design process.  In other
words, it's a prototype!

I think you've already made your points about the design and the
choice of an image in the mockup rather than HTML quite clearly.  No
need to repeat any of that.


> |3) haven't got a clue what you mean about it fairing badly with css
> |dropped and fonts and colours changed. Name me a site that would.
[...]
> Your demo looks a lot like one of those types of sites.  It's hard to be
> sure exactly how it might render if no HTML was ever involved in the
> design though.

I think it's pointless to guess this on the basis of an image mockup,
unless you have a very detailed knowledge of CSS and all the relevant
browser bugs (and maybe not even then).  You're right about the lack
of HTML, but I'm right that that's a perfectly valid thing to do.


> |2) The site has to reflect the expectations of commercial customers who
> |are used to the likes of peoplesoft and atg, etc.
> 
> I suppose.  I'm probably not a "commercial customer", whatever that is...
> on the other hand, I *am* probably the most widely read writer on Python
> topics, worldwide (a lot more people read free developerWorks articles
> than buy books; although a good number bought my book too).  I suppose

So, as you say, we're *definitely* not trying to sell Python to *you*,
David.  <wink>

Seriously, I think there's no intrinsic reason why a glitzy
commerce-friendly page should reduce the usability of python.org to
developers.  By all means let's point out conflicts and complain if
they don't get fixed, but let's not complain about the whole idea of a
glitzier site just because there's a correlation between glitziness
and unusability on *other* sites.


> |3) it's an image. Images don't stretch. If I make it any bigger it would
> |not fit in 800 wide browsers.
> 
> Then it should BE an image, not an HTML page that creates framing elements
> but embeds an image in the middle in a way that hides what's an image and
> what's HTML.  If you had taken that more sensible approach, no one on
> c.l.py would have missed that fact they were looking at an image.

True.


> I reckon you'd be a lot better off taking the near unanimous criticism of
> your design seriously than you will be indignantly protesting about the

I don't think it has been anywhere near unanimous.


John



From dialtone#NOSPAM#.despammed at aruba.it  Mon Sep 15 17:45:55 2003
From: dialtone#NOSPAM#.despammed at aruba.it (Valentino Volonghi aka Dialtone)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:45:55 +0200
Subject: Ways to improve this clock algorithm?
References: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87ekyhd8to.fsf@vercingetorix.caesar.org>

jacobsmail at gmx.net (Jacob H) writes:

> I am grateful for any suggestions and advice. :)

import time
class ExampleTimer(object):
    def __init__(self):
        print "This is my super clock"
        self.run()

    def run(self):
        while 1:
              self.update_time()
              print "%s hrs %s min %s sec" % (self.hours, self.mins, self.secs)
              time.sleep(1)

    def update_time(self):
        # I would use time.localtime() to update the time because doing this I am
        # sure that it is always syncd with my pc time. I think this is the only
        # improvement :). It also removes the need for all that math.
        self.secs = time.localtime()[5]
        self.mins = time.localtime()[4]
        self.hours = time.localtime()[3]

app = ExampleTimer()
app.run()

            

-- 
Valentino Volonghi, Regia SpA, Milan

Linux User #310274, Debian Sid Proud User



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 12 06:25:47 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:25:47 +0100
Subject: Newbie-question: Fetching web-address from the browser!
References: <bff50f69.0309110444.55294d83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F619F2B.48953DB9@hotmail.com>

dermoon wrote:
> I want to fetch the address from the web-browser when it
> visits a page on my web-server.

Hmmm, what exactly do you mean by the "address from the web-browser".
Possibilities include (with solutions for CGI scripts)

1. The IP address of the remote machine, i.e. the numerical address of
computer on which the browser is running?

If yes, try the "REMOTE_ADDR" environment variable, like so

import cgi, os
remote_addr = os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']

2. The name of the remote machine on which the browser is running,
e.g. 'k109-8.bas1.dbn.dublin.eircom.net'? If yes, do a reverse DNS
lookup on the IP address discovered above, like so

import cgi, os, socket
remote_addr = os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']
remote_name = socket.gethostbyaddr(remote_addr)[0]

3. The address of the web page that contained a link to your page,
i.e. the "HTTP Referer"? If yes, take a look at the "HTTP_REFERER"
environment variable, like so

import cgi, os
referer_url = os.environ['HTTP_REFERER']

Note that not all browsers supply the "referer" header, and some
firewalls/proxies drop it, for privacy reasons.

Is any of these what you meant? Or did you mean something else?

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep 11 12:42:56 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:42:56 +0200
Subject: os.listdir
References: <HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br> <mailman.1063171515.17609.python-list@python.org> <bjq102$m21$03$1@news.t-online.com> <Xns93F3A4DD43D3Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bjq8pj$ho2$04$1@news.t-online.com>

"Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk>

[highly interesting details from Duncun]

Where did you get all these details - reading Python compiler source code?
Because it sounded somehow there *could* be degradings when going up to
large dicts, I benchmarked it - no noticable effects (see below). As one can
see as well there is not much disadvantage over list accesss...
Kindly
Michael P

from random import randrange,shuffle
from time import clock

N = 10000
hash={}

t0=clock()
for i in xrange(N):
    hash[long(i**2)]=4711

checkKeys=hash.keys()
shuffle(checkKeys)
print "prepare",N, clock()-t0

t0=clock()
for i in checkKeys[:10000]:
    x=hash[i]
print "access from ",N, clock()-t0
hash=None

N = 1000000
hash={}

t0=clock()
for i in xrange(N):
    hash[long(i**2)]=4711 #this takes some time ;-)

checkKeys=hash.keys()
shuffle(checkKeys)  # this probably too
print "prepare",N, clock()-t0

t0=clock()
for i in checkKeys[:10000]:
    x=hash[i]
print "access from ",N, clock()-t0
hash=None

t0=clock()
for i in checkKeys[:10000]:
    pass
print "empty loop", clock()-t0





From michels at linmpi.mpg.de  Tue Sep 16 11:01:11 2003
From: michels at linmpi.mpg.de (Helmut Michels)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:01:11 +0200
Subject: Dislin compilation
References: <3f62eabc$0$12398$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <3F6725B7.1E854D44@linmpi.mpg.de>

Gaubitzer Erwin wrote:

> Hi everybody
>
> I want to recompile the DISLIN graphics module for Python under Linux, because
> I think it is one of the best graphics libraries at present.
> The included module was for version 2.0 and I want it for 2.2 or maybe 2.3.
> The problem is, that I use the small make_py script which only
> calls the gcc compiler
>
>   CC="gcc -fPIC -c -O"
>   PYTH_INC="/usr/local/include/python2.0"
>   PYTH_CONF="/usr/local/lib/python2.0/config"
>   gcc -shared -Wl,-soname,dislinmodule.so -o dislinmodule.so *.o \
>  -L$DISLIN -ldislnc
>
>  but I think many variables arent configured,
> so a long list of errors follows (I copied the first few lines to
> the end)
>
> I dont have experience with makefiles and so I want to ask what I
> have to do in a short way.
>

You have to edit the file 'make_py' and define the variables PYTH_INC and
PYTH_CONF with
corresponding directories of your Python version (i.e.
PYTH_INC=/"usr/local/include/python2.3"
or PYTH_INC="/usr/include/python2.3").
The environment variable DISLIN is used to locate the DISLIN library. You can
define it outside
of the make_py script with the installation directory of DISLIN (i.e. export
DISLIN=/usr/local/dislin).

Regards,

 -------------------
  Helmut Michels
  Max-Planck-Institut fuer Aeronomie  Phone: +49 5556 979-334
  Max-Planck-Str. 2                   Fax  : +49 5556 979-240
  D-37191 Katlenburg-Lindau           Mail : michels at linmpi.mpg.de
  DISLIN Home Page:                   http://www.dislin.de





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Sep  6 14:47:52 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:47:52 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <vlkavh57q55ca4@news.supernews.com>

"Harri Pesonen" <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message
news:Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874 at reader1.news.jippii.net...
> Jonathan Aquino wrote:
> > Two reasons I cringe when I see self as the first parameter of method
> > declarations (i.e. "def methodname(self, ...)" (I don't mind self in
> > the method body)):
> >
> > 1) I abhor redundancy. My first impression on seeing self as the first
> > parameter of all method declarations is that it seems redundant -- it
> > probably isn't technically, but it looks redundant: (self, (self,
> > (self, (self, ...
> >
> > 2) The number of parameters in the method call is one less than the
> > number of parameters in the method declaration. I'm annoyed when I see
> > this because I want the rules of the language to be obvious (in this
> > case, a one-to-one mapping). I would be embarassed to have to explain
> > this to a beginning programmer.
> >
> > (I do like how Python indenting indicates blocks, however)
>
> I agree, it's not logical. I'm learning Python at the moment, and like
> it very much. This "self" thing seems to be the only odd feature, it
> feels like the whole class feature was added later. The Quick Python
> book says that Python was designed to be object oriented from the ground
> up. Is it true?

I'm not sure; someone who knows the history back to the beginning
would have to say. However, there's a difference between "from the
ground up," which is certainly true, and "from the beginning" which
may or may not be true.

John Roth

>
> Harri
>





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Sep 25 01:13:07 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:13:07 -0700
Subject: Pre-PEP: reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <tth3nvcb9oprv23bincf80c74051227vgv@4ax.com> <vdlcb.287$kD3.194@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <bksos0$jvi$07$1@news.t-online.com> <ln94nv0k81rdhkv9df39u94rhelmcpguo9@4ax.com> <eppstein-267FAC.17110124092003@news.service.uci.edu> <mailman.1064453195.20358.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-525BAB.22130724092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1064453195.20358.python-list at python.org>,
 Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:

> David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote previously:
> |It would be quite cumbersome to have to identify simple generators as
> |infinite or finite manually, and impossible (halting problem) to do so
> |reliably automatically.
> 
> Humans cannot solve the halting problem either, FWIW.  Just because a
> programmer THINKS an iterator is finite, it don't mean it is!

Well, true, but if you are a programmer and don't know whether your 
program is always going to halt, you probably shouldn't have written it 
that way.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Fri Sep 12 12:00:40 2003
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Fearless Freep)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 09:00:40 -0700
Subject: Overlaying transparent images with PIL
References: <7d3dc526.0309111903.2a4a044@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063342041.22810.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7d3dc526.0309120800.1beec8@posting.google.com>

Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063342041.22810.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoting Fearless Freep (joconnor at cybermesa.com):
> > 
> > Anyway.  I have a basic image and I need to overlay an image on top of
> > it and let some of the basic image show through.  Just as an aside the
> > images are not of the same size and the top image needs to be pasted
> > over the underlying image at an offset from the origin.
> 
> What you want is to convert both your images (or at least the top
> one?) to an RGBA image. The RGB are the color codes, and the "A" is
> the alpha layer. The alpha layer specifies how opaque each pixel
> should be, 0 being transparent and 255 being opaque.
> 
> If you convert the GIF you're using into an RGBA image, this should
> work. The problem with GIF is that it's not really 'transparent', the
> pixels are actually colored. There's just a special marker in the GIF
> file format that allows you to identify one of the colors as
> "transparent".
> 
> I believe the PNG file format actually provides a full four-layer
> model with variable transparency, but I'm a long way from expert or
> even knowledgable in these affairs. I just know what's worked for me
> before....
> 
> Best of luck!


What I found out would work is I could create 'transparency mask' of
the original image and then fill in the transparent part of the image
with a background color that I'm not using in the rest of the image.

---------------
colorTable = [255]*256
colorTable[0] = 0 #anything black (0) will be made transparent

mask = overlay.point (colorTable, '1') #make the transparency mask

#paste the overlay into the base image in the boundingBox using mask
as a filter
baseimage.paste (overlay, boundingBox, mask)
-----------------

Everything with a zero value (black) in the original will be
transparent in the final

Thanks


Take care,
Jay O'Connor
http://www.cybermesa.com/~joconnor/r4hsoftware
 - Custom Web And Application Software for small business



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Sep 24 23:17:44 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:17:44 -0500
Subject: send email 
In-Reply-To: <000a01c38309$52daef50$1603a8c0@pc22>
Message-ID: <D44DA9C0-EF06-11D7-8841-000393C2D67E@colorstudy.com>

On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 09:04 PM, Alberto Vera wrote:
> Could you tell me How I can send an email using WIN2000? What do I 
> need?
>
Use the smtplib module, and maybe the new email module to create the 
email message (but you won't need that if you want to create simple 
email messages).

   Ian






From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sat Sep 27 03:08:22 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:08:22 -0700
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <1NFcb.62896$gV.2762@news2.central.cox.net> <dp6db.7740$541.7674@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <eppstein-4EED61.00082227092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <dp6db.7740$541.7674 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,
 "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

> [Raymond]
> > >    It crashes when applied to an infinite iterator.
> 
> [Steve Holden]
> > Hmm. My little brain is having difficulty imagining anything that won't.
> > What am I missing?
> 
> The PEP proposes adding a method only to a few objects
> that don't have degenerate cases:  list, str, unicode, xrange
> and possibly tuple.

Speaking of which: str, int, etc., used to be functions, but they got 
changed to be the initializers of types having those names.  Why is 
xrange still a function rather than the initializer of the xrange type?

The most visible difference of changing xrange to be the type of the 
xrange objects would be more information shown in help(xrange), some of 
which could be useful if we are talking about adding more methods to the 
xrange objects.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From mleeds at mlp.com  Fri Sep 19 12:37:42 2003
From: mleeds at mlp.com (Leeds, Mark)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:37:42 -0400
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
Message-ID: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>

I did more investigation into my previous problem
and what happens is that my text file has \r for representing
a new line instead
of a \n. is there a way to tell the readlines
function that the symbol for a newline is \r rather
than \n ? right now the readlines function reads
the\r as another item in the list and just puts
everything into one big list because it
doesn't find any new line characters.
 thanks. i'm really stuck because
i can't read my data right now.
 
                                                mark
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From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 30 10:23:26 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:23:26 +0300
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za> <DIaeb.142010$hE5.4836948@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <8e4jnvgmkcs0v1p8vneln8d12r99s2t49f@4ax.com>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:58:27 GMT, rumours say that Alex Martelli
<aleax at aleax.it> might have written:

>charmap = {}
>for c in chr: charmap[c] = c+'\\'

I believe you meant charmap[c] = '\\' + c ...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix



From owen at astro.washington.edu  Fri Sep 12 13:57:47 2003
From: owen at astro.washington.edu (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:57:47 -0700
Subject: mixing for x in file: and file.readline
References: <rowen-222487.13545311092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1063364898.12243.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <owen-881CDA.10574712092003@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1063364898.12243.python-list at python.org>,
 Oren Tirosh <oren-py-l at hishome.net> wrote:

>On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 01:54:53PM -0700, Russell E. Owen wrote:
>> At one time, mixing for x in file and readline was dangerous. For 
>> example:
>> 
>> for line in file:
>>   # read some lines from a file, then break
>> nextline = readline() # bad
>> 
>> would not do what a naive user might expect because the file iterator 
>> buffered data and readline did not read from that buffer. Hence the call 
>> to readline might unexpectedly skip some lines...

(Oren points out that it's still a problem in Python 2.3 and after some 
interesting and gory detail goes on to say...)

>Really fixing it amounts to reimplementing the entire I/O layer of 
>Python with a different strategy and thoroughly testing on multiple 
>platforms. 
>
>It's possible to hide the problem in most cases by making read and 
>readline use the iteration readahead buffer if it's attached to the file
>object and stdio if it isn't. I don't think it's a good idea. It will
>require some hairy code and and seems susceptible to subtle bugs and
>corner cases.

I agree that fixing read would probably be too messy to justify.

But it seems to me that a simple reimplementation of readline() would 
work fine:

def readline(self):
   try:
      return self.next()
   except StopIteration
      return ""

That's basically the way I ended up working around the problem (but I 
didn't try to modify any classes). I do see two issues with that fix:
- existing code (if any) that mixes readlines and read would be harmed
- it may not be efficient enough (even implemented in C)

>Another alternative it to make read and readline fail noisily after 
>iteration starts (unless cleared by seek())

If readlines cannot be fixed, this might be worth doing since I think 
it's a common thing to want to mix readlines and iteration. If read is 
the only issue, I suspect adding a warning to the documentation for file 
method "read" would suffice.

I'm wondering where the problem is discussed in the manual. I'm pretty 
sure I saw it recently, but when I read about file methods I saw nothing 
about it.

-- Russell



From see at my.signature.com  Tue Sep 16 17:28:52 2003
From: see at my.signature.com (Andrei)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:28:52 -0400
Subject: why pass statement?
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com> <vmeq2go7e7fq62@news.supernews.com> <A_J9b.13307$x21.750@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3377992.1063747732@dbforums.com>

Originally posted by M-A-S

> A good idea! Thanks!

>

> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message news:vme-
> q2go7e7fq62 at news.supernews.com"]news:vmeq2go7e7fq62 at news.supernews.co-
> m[/url]...

> > You don't actally need Pass. A docstring is sufficient:

> > class C:

> >     "this is a class"

> > while True:

> >     "loop de loop de loop"

> > John Roth



I find "pass" shows that something could be there, sort of "insert stuff
here if you like/need to". A string as such doesn't have that effect.
Obviously you could always make up some useless statement instead of
pass, but pass just looks more elegant IMO. You probably should use it
if you plan on showing your code to others.


--
Contact info (decode with rot13): cebwrpg5 at bcrenznvy.pbz
Fcnzserr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp zrffntrf. V ernq gur yvfg, ab arrq gb PP.


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Sep 10 15:40:14 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:40:14 -0500
Subject: sort by file/directory
In-Reply-To: <9d302332.0309101042.2c0d12c3@posting.google.com> (mzupan@meso.com's
 message of "10 Sep 2003 11:42:24 -0700")
References: <9d302332.0309101042.2c0d12c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2n0dch1pd.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike Zupan <mzupan at meso.com> writes:

    Mike> I have a list that includes files and directories ie: list =
    Mike> ['file', 'file2', 'dir1','file3','dir2' ]

    Mike> I want to sort it so it looks like this

    Mike> ['dir1', 'dir2', 'file1','file2','file3' ]


    Mike> I'm just wondering if there is an easy way to do this


This is a good example of when you should use the decorate, sort,
undecorate (DSU) pattern.  When python sorts tuples, it compares first
on the first element of the tuple and then on the next element, and
then so on.  If you create tuples where the first element of dirs
compares less than the first element of files, and the second element
is just the dir/file name, then you'll get the sort you want.  All you
have have to do is undecorate, ie, remove the unwanted information
from the tuples.  Here is the approach

    import os
    fnames = ('emacs', '.emacs', 'tex','.tcshrc','diary' )

    tmp = [ (not os.path.isdir(fname), fname) for fname in fnames] # decorate
    tmp.sort() # sort
    fnamesSorted = [fname for isdir, fname in tmp] # undecorate

For more info on DSU, see
http://groups.google.com/groups?num=20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=dsu+group%3A*python*&btnG=Google+Search
and the Python Cookbook, which has a chapter on sorting mainly devoted
to DSU.

    Mike> list = ['file', 'file2', 'dir1','file3','dir2' ]

You may want to avoid the name list because it is a built-in.  For
example, to convert a string to a list of characters, you would do

    seq = list('John Hunter')

After creating a variable named list, you can no longer do this.


Cheers,
John Hunter




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 16 15:27:30 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:27:30 -0500
Subject: None, False, True
In-Reply-To: <877k48y2sd.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>
        <877k48y2sd.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16231.25634.297176.548203@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John> Dunno why None and not True / False causes a warning, but you can
    John> turn warnings into errors using the warnings framework, I think.

Too much Python code which needs to run on 2.2 or earlier legitimately
defines True and False something like so:

    try:
        True
    except NameError:
        True = (1 == 1)
        False = not True

All that valid code would raise SyntaxWarning if it was enabled for True and
False.  Note that SyntaxWarning is raised at compilation time, not runtime,
so the compiler doesn't know a priori whether the except clause will
execute.

Skip





From amk at amk.ca  Sat Sep 20 12:32:51 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:32:51 -0500
Subject: Web server with Python
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com> <mailman.1063352060.32640.python-list@python.org> <6o24mvcmksid33t4s9b8cbsrnctl5n2o6m@4ax.com> <mailman.1063518260.30336.python-list@python.org> <sf0cmvo2ccdqnnhe8bmvdfg5cj4099oav3@4ax.com> <mailman.1063676964.7166.python-list@python.org> <vp2kmv07ko4j5fs2gkoaeqjqju04co3bfa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <tLqdnSSkOdyuHPGiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net>

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:47:43 +0200, 
	Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote:
> now that the Python 2.3 version of Twisted is out. I spend an awful
> amount of time to get a dynamic page with Medusa, specifically due to
> the fact that there is no documentation except the comments in the code.

Note that Quixote includes support for both Medusa and Twisted; see
the modules in the quixote.server package.

--amk



From duduca007 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 16:35:13 2003
From: duduca007 at yahoo.com (Carlos Moreira)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PYTHONPATH x *.pth???
Message-ID: <20030904203513.82182.qmail@web11406.mail.yahoo.com>

I want to install Python third packages in a
non-default directory.
What?s the better way to do Python to find this
packages?
 
    - set PYTHONPATH variable?
    - include *.pth files (that keep directory of
installed package) in site-packages?
 
I know that the two methos above are equivalents.
But what method will be kept in future Python releases
(for example)?
 
              []?s
 
Cadu


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Tue Sep  2 14:42:11 2003
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:42:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
References: <3285.208.224.10.29.1062445601.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net> <mailman.1062448983.22163.python-list@python.org> <bj0tgc$e4kup$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <bj1khn$iu9$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <bj2cdf$csq7a$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bj2oa3$1brk$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

Cousin Stanley <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:
: | Frames don't have titles, but toplevels do.
: | Try using the 'title()' method of the toplevel widget.

: Daniel ...

:    Thanks for the reply ...

:    I'm familar with applying the  title()  method
:    to a Tkinter root or Toplevel object, but couldn't
:    figure out how to change the title on a sub-classed frame

Hello again!


But that's because frames don't have titles.  *grin*

(If you're coming from a Java background, and are thinking about Java
Swing's JFrames, don't!  Tkinter's Frame is a grouping widget, and is
more like a JPanel than a JFrame.)


If we try making a widget without a toplevel container, Tkinter will
automagically create a default toplevel master object for us, and use
that to subsequently attach widgets.  This default behavior is
convenient, but can cause the confusion that we're having between
frames and toplevels.

In fact, it's perfectly ok to have two frames in a toplevel window:

###
>>> from Tkinter import *
>>> root = Tk()
>>> p1 = Frame(root)
>>> p2 = Frame(root)
>>> Label(p1, text="hello").pack(side=TOP)   
>>> Label(p1, text="world").pack(side=BOTTOM)
>>> Label(p2, text="tkinter").pack(side=TOP)
>>> Label(p2, text="programming").pack(side=BOTTOM)
>>> p1.pack(side=LEFT)
>>> p2.pack(side=RIGHT)
###

So in this context, asking for the title of a Frame is a meaningless
question: you really want to get at the title of the toplevel object.


I guess another way to do the title setting, if all we have is the
frame, is to grab the 'master' from our widget, and hope that it's the
toplevel:

###
from Tkinter import *
button = Button(text="Press me!")
button.pack()
button.master.title("This is a test title")
###


Even so, the examples in "An Introduction to Tkinter" don't depend on
the default toplevel object --- those examples explicitly create a
root toplevel object --- so it's probably a better idea to do the
same.

###
from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
button = Button(root, text="Press me!")
button.pack()
root.title("This is a test title")
###





From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Mon Sep 22 14:32:42 2003
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:32:42 -0000
Subject: DB2 driver for windows
References: <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbmugcf.ppc.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894 at feed0.news.be.easynet.net>, Philip wrote:
> i'am looking for a db2 driver for windows
> the DB2 servers runs on as400 if that makes any difference.

I don't know if you're looking for a native driver, but if you can work with
ODBC, I was able to get DB2's ODBC driver (the one that comes with the DB2
client installation) to talk to the mx.ODBC module.

http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html

-- 
.:[ dave benjamin (ramenboy) -:- www.ramenfest.com -:- www.3dex.com ]:.
: d r i n k i n g   l i f e   o u t   o f   t h e   c o n t a i n e r :



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Sep 26 14:51:05 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:51:05 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>    ...
>> Also, the idea of denying tuples the ability to reverse iterate seems
>> arbitrary and capricious.
>
> Sure, but so is denying them, e.g., non-mutating methods such as
> .index() and .count().

Not IMO. Immutability is a very useful trait.

> At least we're _consistently_ arbitrary and capricious!-)

Not in this case.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Sep 20 11:01:11 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:01:11 +0100
Subject: pop3 email header classifier?
In-Reply-To: <6cammvoibfes7scnan7kkorctoi55n4d57@4ax.com>
References: <GmZAOKA6Uya$Ew2E@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <6cammvoibfes7scnan7kkorctoi55n4d57@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8C7OnKA3uGb$Ew6x@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In message <6cammvoibfes7scnan7kkorctoi55n4d57 at 4ax.com>, Richie Hindle
<richie at entrian.com> writes
>

someone has posted a poplib command line thing on much the same lines in
another thread.

>[Robin]
>> Hi, I'm getting vast numbers of fake upgrade emails containing some kind
>> of virus. My rather old client can be made to reject these based on some
>> patterns in the subject line. They're nearly all based on the word
>> 'New', 'Latest', 'Microsoft', 'Patch', 'Pack', ... etc etc.
>> 
>> Is there a python tool that can be made to delete these from my POP3
>> mail box rather than let my client reject?
>
>I have a webmail application that can be made to delete messages based on
>regular expressions, at http://entrian.com/cgi-bin/pop3.py
>
>I wrote it in response to a similar problem, whereby a spammer used my
>address as his From address, and I received a couple of thousand bounce
>messages a day.
>
>You can set up regular expression filters on To, From and Subject, and set
>it to either mark messages for deletion (so you get to review them before
>deleting them) or delete them straight away (via the "I'm either brave or
>stupid" checkbox, TM 8-)  You can save your filters for later use.
>
>Take EXTREME CARE with this, particularly if you check the "I'm either
>brave or stupid" box.  8-)  There is no way to recover a deleted message.
>Don't sue me if it eats your hamster's emails.
>
>You probably need something like (untested):
>
>From: microsoft|ms\b
>Subject: patch|latest|microsoft|update|upgrade|pack
>
>There's no SSL version of this, so your POP3 account details will pass in
>plain text over the internet (in theory my provider has a scheme whereby
>you can access the site over SSL using their certificate, but it doesn't
>work for some reason - if there's any interest I'll see whether I can make
>it work).
>
>(And no, I'm not going to harvest your POP3 account details.  They never
>even hit the hard drive.)
>

-- 
Robin Becker




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Sep  7 15:06:51 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 21:06:51 +0200
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m33cf82zas.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan) writes:

> This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.

I find it highly intuitive and very convenient.

> If you want this behavior, how hard is it to say a = b[x %
> len(b)] ??

*This* I would call un-intuitive. It is also much slower.

To get the last element, you currently write b[-1]. If that was not
available, you would have to write b[len(b)-1], which is still
significantly slower. Also, you might not have a variable name, so try
rewriting foo()[-1].

Regards,
Martin




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 10:09:06 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:09:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Xns93FE997643EDCduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in
news:DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910 at news1.tin.it: 

>> So maybe it's about time to change the sort() method to support a
>> second argument
>> 
>> list.sort(compare=None, mapping=None)
>> 
>> that, if provided, would perform the DSU magic. Or was that already
>> proposed and rejected?
> 
> I have not seen this proposed before, and I'm not very clear on what
> the "compare" and "mapping" arguments are supposed to be in order to
> let you specify any DSU.  Basically it seems you would need two
> callables, "decorate" to be called with each item in the list (to
> return for each item the decorated tuple) and "undecorate" to be
> called with each decorated tuple after the sort (to return the item
> for the result).  How do you turn that into "compare" and "mapping"?
> 
> 
You don't need two callables because the sort function would be doing
the decorating, so it knows also how to undecorate. I think the
suggestion is that the mapping argument returns something that can be
compared. 

For example, here is a DSU function that does a not-in-place sort and
takes a suitable mapping argument. Changing it to in-place sort is,
of course, trivial. 

>>> def DSU(aList, aMapping):
	newList = [ (aMapping(item), index, item) for (index, item)
		    in enumerate(aList) ]
	newList.sort()
	return [ item[2] for item in newList ]

>>> print DSU(['Alex Martelli', 'Duncan Booth', 'Peter Otten', 'Jeff Epler'], 
       str.lower)
['Alex Martelli', 'Duncan Booth', 'Jeff Epler', 'Peter Otten']
>>> def lastFirst(name):
	names = name.split()
	names = names[-1:] + names[:-1]
	return [name.lower() for name in names]

>>> print DSU(['Alex Martelli', 'Duncan Booth', 'Peter Otten', 'Jeff Epler'], 
       lastFirst)
['Duncan Booth', 'Jeff Epler', 'Alex Martelli', 'Peter Otten']


-- 
Duncan Booth                                            
duncan at rcp.co.uk int month(char
*p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3" 
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure? 



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 26 10:11:43 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:11:43 -0400
Subject: Where to import modules?
References: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> <3F74375A.F9D4B0EB@engcorp.com> <bl1f7t$oig$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <3F74491F.593D5D56@engcorp.com>

JCM wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> ...
> 
> > Basically doing this is an optimization, and you shouldn't be optimizing
> > before the program is working, and you shouldn't be optimizing without
> > a real need for it.  (That is, just because it's a little faster doesn't
> > mean it's worth doing.)
> 
> Aside from being an optimization, it's also good for documentation.
> If you see an import at the top of a file it might not be immediately
> clear how or why the module is being used.  It's similar reasoning to
> why you might define variables in the narrowest scope posible.

I'm not sure it's necessarily any clearer when you put the import 
somewhere down in the file, effectively hiding it from casual viewing.

At the top, it's at least clear that the module *is* imported.  If
you care how it's used, a simple search for "module." will show all
the places where it's used.

In the middle of code somewhere, you can clearly see how it's being
used only if you're actually looking at that exact line.

John Roth has the right approach: whatever you do, a comment up 
at the top with the others would go a long way towards appeasing
any concerns about maintainability.  Unfortunately, that does mean
there's isolated duplication (the import, somewhere below, plus the 
comment at the top) and therefore another, though perhaps lesser, 
maintainability problem.

-Peter



From nomail at nomail.com  Wed Sep 10 04:02:50 2003
From: nomail at nomail.com (Michael Schmitt)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:02:50 +0200
Subject: Errors while compiling SWIG wrappers on Solaris
References: <bjl1pm$2oi99$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de> <bjl4u2$j22$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bjmlra$2q9r2$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Thanks a lot. Compiling svm.o with -fPIC worked.

I found it very difficult to get information and a better understanding of 
the Linking process. Do you have any hints on background information, that 
helps to be able to debug such errors myself?

Regards, 
Michael

"Martin v. L?wis" wrote:

> Michael Schmitt wrote:
>> I tried some hints I found on the web:
>> "-shared" for compiling and linking.
>> "-fPIC".
>> "-Wl,-G".
>> 
>> But none of these (also in combinations) worked. Any ideas?
>> 
>> Thanks for any help.
>> Michael
>> 
>> --------------------
>> Text relocation remains                         referenced
>>     against symbol                  offset      in file
>> <unknown>                           0x2610      ../svm.o
>> <unknown>                           0x2614      ../svm.o
> 
> svm.o is not position-independent. You need to compile *svm.o*
> with -fPIC. Passing that option to any other compiler commands,
> or the linker line, will be irrelevant. Once you've done that,
> you may find that additional object files are not
> position-independent, either, you then need to compile these
> with -fPIC as well.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 17 20:48:18 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:48:18 -0400
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <m2llsn55z3.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3F6900D2.7080806@hotmail.com>

Thanks Heather... this did it:

outputFile = file('ips.txt', 'w')
r = range(256)
for r in range(256):
    f = '192.168.1.%s\n' % r #Change this line to macth your network.
    outputFile.write(f)
outputFile.close()

Heather Coppersmith wrote:
> Try any or all of these:
> 
>     print a + b + c + str( r )
> 
>     print a + b + c + "%d" % r
> 
>     print a + b + c + "%s" % r
> 
>     print "%s%s%s%d" % (a, b, c, r)
> 
> Regards,
> Heather
> 





From fgeiger at datec.at  Mon Sep  1 15:36:54 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:36:54 +0200
Subject: PyXR 0.9.3- Cross-Referenced HTML from Python Source
References: <mailman.1062354602.22785.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f539f76@news.swissonline.ch>

Cool! Reminds me a bit of doxygen, which I heavily use for my C++ projects.
Have a look at it, if you want to add some graphics showing inheritance
paths and the like.

Cheers
Franz

"logistix" <logistix at cathoderaymission.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1062354602.22785.python-list at python.org...
> PyXR 0.9.3- Cross-Referenced HTML from Python Source
>
> PyXR generates HTML pages from python source files.  It also generates
> cross-referenced hyperlinks and integrates with the Python Library
> Reference as well, which makes it distinctive from the 8 million other
> prettyprinters out there.  It's been tested on 2.3 for Windows, OpenBSD
> 3.2 and RedHat 7.3.  There's no reason it shouldn't work on other
> platforms with minor configuration.
>
> 0.9.3 is a minor release.  It was primarily issued as an "official"
> 2.3-compatible release, although previous versions should run on 2.3 as
> well.  Other features include:
>     - Per-line-number hyperlinks, to make emailing source code
> references easier and more accurate.
>     - Upgrade of the PyXR'ed source on my website to 2.3's standard
> library.
>
> A PyXR'ed version of Python 2.3's source can be viewed at:
>
>     http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/PyXR/python23/src/
>
> More information about PyXR itself is available at:
>
>     http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/python/pyxr.html
>
> The package is available at:
>
>     http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/python/PyXR.zip
>
> Enjoy!
>
>





From colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com  Mon Sep  8 11:41:05 2003
From: colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com (Colin S. Miller)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:41:05 +0100
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063030663.28572.python-list@python.org>
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com> <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253> <3F5C7270.1020001@ghaering.de> <mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list@python.org> <Xns93F093815E0CDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1063030663.28572.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gu7ijb.v6m.ln@195.171.216.1>

Bob Gailer wrote:
> At 07:31 AM 9/8/2003, Duncan Booth wrote:
> 
>> Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in
>> news:mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list at python.org:
>>
>> > That's a good start. I presume I need to use codecs.open(filename,
>> > mode[, encoding[, errors[, buffering]]]) to read the file. What is the
>> > actual value of the "encoding[" parameter for "Little-endian UTF-16
>> > Unicode character data, with CR line terminators"
>>
>> Try:
>>
>>  myFile = codecs.open(filename, "r", "utf16")
>>
>> If the file starts with a UTF-16 marker (either little or big endian) it
>> will be read correctly. If it doesn't start with either marker reading 
>> from
>> it will throw a UnicodeError.
> 
> 
> Interesting error:
> 
> UniCodeError: UTF-16 decoding error: truncated data
Are you doing readline on the unicode file?
I bashed my head off this problem a few months ago, and ended up doing
codecs.open(...).read().splitline()

I think what happens is the codecs::readline calls the underlying 
readline code, which doesn't respect unicode, and instead splits at the 
first \r or \n it finds; in little-endian this will result in a string 
with an odd-number of bytes.

Colin Miller

> 
> Bob Gailer
> bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
> 303 442 2625
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003




From bfdpowers at norwoodlight.com  Thu Sep  4 19:31:27 2003
From: bfdpowers at norwoodlight.com (Bradford Powers)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:31:27 -0700
Subject: Output in color
In-Reply-To: <20030904195605.20582.3332.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <000001c3733c$a94c5590$6400a8c0@LAPTOP>

I'm curious how I can make Python print text in color. 





From gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl  Thu Sep 11 10:26:06 2003
From: gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl (Grzegorz Staniak)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:26:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <mailman.1063288162.21589.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbm11ft.d9.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>

Arthur writes:

>>I think it's a mistake to cite Lott here. As an >extreme libertarian he
>>has shown his own bias a couple of times. His >famous "More guns, less
>>crime" findings has been challenged recently >>(see e.g.
>>http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,562387,00.html),
>>and he could not produce any evidence whatsoever that his telephone
>>survey on the crime-repelling effects of gun carrying has been actually
>>conducted.
> 
> I have never owned a gun, nor can off-hand think of anyone I know well who
> does own a gun.

Same here.

> So am not excitable on the issue.

Neither am I. I've been reading a little on the subject only because
pro-gun legislations are being discussed in my country at the moment.
Actually, at first I completely bought the "more guns, less crime"
argument. Especially the data presented for Texas and Florida were
impressive. But right now I think the data ha been practically
invalidated, and I cannot see any other arguments that would lead me to
believe that a "right-to-carry" law does more good than evil.

> But I do find that the repeated use of statistics in this thread is quite
> the problem, not quite the solution.  Those claiming a right to gun
> ownership are specifically claiming the irrelevancy of such analysis.  That
> is exactly, in many ways, the point - it seems to me.
> 
> Statistically, they have exactly one family.  And statistically have the
> right - in their to view - to do exactly what they statistically decide is
> necessary to protect that statistic.
> 
> To in fact specifically not be a statistic.
> 
> Yes, there is something quite American about that viewpoint.  God bless.

I certainly wouldn't call this "American". "Evasive" would be a better
word. 

Of course anyone is entitled to protecting their own, and their family's, 
lives and property using any means she considers appropriate. But we're
all part of the big picture too, no matter how we contest it. If I
believe that passing a law will cause more deaths to take place, I will
oppose the law even if personally I wouldn't mind owning a gun for
protection.

> Art

-- 
Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at zagiel.com.pl>



From interstar at postmaster.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 13:16:56 2003
From: interstar at postmaster.co.uk (phil)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 10:16:56 -0700
Subject: python cgi problem with method = post
References: <d7825a3e.0309191202.dc02042@posting.google.com> <d7825a3e.0309210509.75748d8e@posting.google.com> <3F6DC6D3.E6454738@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <d7825a3e.0309220916.45cdc3c8@posting.google.com>

Sorry, my bad!

I've been using other forums where there's turnaround of a couple of
hours or things get lost in the depths of history. Forgot what Usenet
is like :-)

I'll go away and look at the problem some more and try to come back
with more details.

cheers

phil jones



Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F6DC6D3.E6454738 at engcorp.com>...
> 
> The mailing list and newsgroup are working well enough, so if you
> receive no useful answers it's likely because nobody could understand 
> the question clearly enough to think how to answer.
> 
> One thing you might consider is including some actual samples of
> code, so people don't have to imagine which of the five dozen
> possible approaches you are actually using.
> 
> Also make sure you have tried other approaches to ensure that the
> problem is actually with your own code and not with some host-specific
> problem which nobody else will ever be able to reproduce locally.
> 
> > > So, I don't expect anyone to be able to answer this ... but what
> 
> Yet you were hopeful for answers? ;-)
> 
> > > *kind* of thing should I be looking for? Is it to do with versions of
> > > python (2.1.3 locally, 2.2 remotely) or "cgi"? Or the webserver (I'm
> > > using Apache on Debian locally, I suspect my host is Apache on Red Hat
> > > 7.1)
> 
> Python includes excellent facilities for debugging problems of various
> kinds, including this kind.  Why not experiment a little and see what you
> can come up with?  It's unclear from your description where your problem 
> might be so without additional information any suggestions are random 
> shots-in-the-dark, and that I suspect is why no one responded yet.
> 
> Also, I just noticed, you waited only one day before your second post.
> That's far too little time to wait, as for many people it can take 
> several days for Usenet posts to reach them and, furthermore, you posted
> at the end of the work week and many people read Usenet only at work.
> 
> Summary: experiment, post more and more detailed information, and be
> more patient.
> 
> -Peter



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Tue Sep  2 17:50:50 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:50:50 GMT
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com> <bis8k4$sjv$00$1@news.t-online.com> <m349lvgot9ghsmii9b85uoq34qfhbho8jq@4ax.com> <js99lvguv5vdvmmjfpdmgmo5dnq5akttfb@news.stofanet.dk>
Message-ID: <3f550e2f.254030105@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:34:37 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen
<nospamius at lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> "Encapsulation" is the word that describes the effort(s) to make
> it impossible for the user of a module to access the attributes
> (and hidden methods) directly and only allow him to do it through
> public methods with build-in check so that no disasters occur.

<RANT>
Does anyone else really hate this corruption as much as me?
It seemed to take hold when C++ appeared. Encapsulation in OO
originally meant the ability to bind data and functions together
into a single thing (that we call an object). (Some early "OO"
languages apparently provided objects without an explicit class
type construct, so they were not encapsulated objects - does
anyone remember any such beasts? They were before I joined the
OOP circus in the mid '80s.)

The ability to hide the internal data was called data hiding
(originally coined by David Parnas talking about modular
programming I believe). Encapsulation and Data Hiding were thus
two different things and Encapsulation (like  Python does) was an
essential feature of OOP along with Polymorphism (whether based
on inheritance (like C++) or inteface (like Python)). Data Hiding
was desirable but optional (several OOP languages provide
encapsulation and not Data Hiding). Similarly some OOP languages
provide polymorphism by other means than inheritance and so
inheritance also was desirable but not essential for OOP (but
that has always been a point of some debate).

I've been trying to find the exact point when encapsulation
changed its meaning to data hiding but without success. It seems
to have been around about 1990-2 somewhere...
</RANT>

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest! :-)

Alan G.


Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Mon Sep 29 17:11:30 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:11:30 -0400
Subject: A startup puzzle
In-Reply-To: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F78A002.3000505@zephyrfalcon.org>

Edward K. Ream wrote:

> I've just about convinced myself there is no good, clean solution to the
> following puzzle.  I wonder if you agree.
> 
> 1. My app has a module called leoGlobals that contains often-used global
> functions.  All of Leo's source files start with:
> 
> from leoGlobals import *
> 
> I don't want to discuss whether this is good style: it is simple and it
> works well for me :-)

Fair enough, but it's not just a matter of style... using something like

   import leoGlobals as g

would probably have avoided this problem, since you can do:

   import leoGlobals as g

   # later...
   g.app = leoApp.leoApp()
   # every module that imported leoGlobals now knows g.app as well

Cheers,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From domma at procoders.net  Tue Sep 23 17:46:39 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:46:39 +0200
Subject: Barcode generator for Python?
References: <mailman.1064348557.16937.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkqevq$3rd$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi Jen,

I wrote a wrapper around the GNU Barcode library, but nobody really used it.
You can get it from here:

http://www.procoders.net/download.php?fname=PyBarcode.zip

It should be for python 2.2. Look at the example to see if it suits your
needs. If yes, I could build a new version for python 2.3.

regards,
Achim





From kmkstyle at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 07:43:50 2003
From: kmkstyle at hotmail.com (Kathleen Kudzma)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:43:50 -0400
Subject: Tkinter and Movie Player
Message-ID: <Law15-F68qBHksQ6KLV0001423b@hotmail.com>

Does anyone know of a movie player besides pygame that can be embedded in a 
Tkinter widget.  It needs to support Windows and Linux.  It needs to play 
mpegs.  The frame in the movie player that actually contains the video is 
the portion that I want to embed in Tkinter.  I would like to make my own 
player controls in Tkinter.

_________________________________________________________________
Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! 
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon





From mpeuser at web.de  Tue Sep  9 07:41:48 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:41:48 +0200
Subject: What does the keyword 'global' really mean
References: <3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bjkeau$aa3$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> Hi
> I have been looking through some Python code and I came across the keyword
> 'global'. I have looked through the docs and two or three Python
programming
> books for a full explanation of what 'global' really means. Would I be
> correct in assuming that any variable prefixed with the keyword global
would
> allow that variable to be accessible across translation units, in other
> words global is equivalent to the 'C' keyword 'extern' ?

(1) No! When you 'import' a modul all variables (except __...) will be
visible to you.
(2) You as well have visiblity inside a modul function to variables used in
the modul scope, i.e. you do have to declare them 'global' if you only want
to 'read' them.
(3) It does not work the other way round. It you assign something ('bind' )
to avariable ('name') (what you would call 'local definition' in some other
languages, this variable will not be visible to the outside wortld (thus (1)
is not quite correct ;-) )
(4) This is where 'global' enteres the scene. Declaring a name in a local
(function) context  as 'global' makes is visible to all the modul.
(5) You as well can declare a variable as 'global' in the modul context; I
am not aware of any use there, except purely informative.


> Also, does Python have the equivalent of the 'C' keyword 'static'?

Not as a special construct, but you can use real 'dummy keyword parameters'
for that:

def p(p1,p2,....myown={}):
myown[....] =

This trick will emulate something similar to 'static'


Kindly
MichaelP







From nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no  Thu Sep 25 03:45:31 2003
From: nikolai.kirsebom.NOJUNK at siemens.no (Nikolai Kirsebom)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:45:31 +0200
Subject: Getting C++ object from PyObject *
Message-ID: <fj65nvk1sqq0futtqg374r6917gbfqkb35@4ax.com>

I'm using BOOST to integrate Python into our application.  Could
someone tell me how I get hold of the C++ object (pointer to the
object instance) from a PyObject *.

Example:
I have defined and exposed two C++ classes:

class MyObjectA
{
public:
  MyObject();
};

class MyObjectB
{
public:
  MyObjectB();
  void SetInput(PyObject *o);
};

In Python I'm able to write:

pa = MyObjectA()
pb = MyObjectB()

to create an instance of each of the classes.

Then using the exposed SetInput method of class MyObjectB:

pb.SetInput(pa)

How would I code the SetInput method:

void MyObjectB::SetInput(PyObject *o)
{
//Check that type of 'o' is an (instance) object of class 'MyObjectA'
//Fetch the pointer (reference) to the actual instance of MyObjectA
MyObjectA * ca = .....
}

Thanks for any help.

Nikolai








From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Sep 17 10:48:48 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:48:48 +0200
Subject: [OT] Half the download size
References: <5laemv46hi2dv8k3lo53h0ctpitnh3nmp9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bk9sbe$717$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote:

>-Hm... Python is quite big...
>-Yes, it's the philosophy I told you about, "batteries included".  Lots
>of useful stuff.
>-Is this the reason, or is it that I'm also downloading the huge list of
>contributors? ;-)
>-Ah! Sorry, my mistake, pointed you to the wrong URL... you should click
>the other one that's half the size.
>-Which one?
>-The one under the name of... uh... "Ungrateful Python".

Yes it's a problem. There's too much useful stuff and the list of
developers gets longer and longer. However the following script could
be used to generate a placebo Python contributors list (after
installation) at a fraction of the download size. It also shows that
the problem won't be significant unless the number of contributors
gets way bigger than 10000.

Anton

from random import sample,randint
from string import ascii_lowercase,capitalize
from zipfile import ZipFile,ZIP_DEFLATED

def newname(minfirst,maxfirst,minlast,maxlast):
    nfirst = randint(minfirst,maxfirst)
    nlast = randint(minlast,maxlast)
    firstname = "".join(sample(ascii_lowercase,nfirst))
    lastname = "".join(sample(ascii_lowercase,nlast))
    return " ".join(map(capitalize,[firstname,lastname]))

def main():
    textfilename = "contributors.txt"
    archivename = "contributors.zip"
    n = 10000
    minfirst,maxfirst,minlast,maxlast = 3,10,4,20
    tup = minfirst,maxfirst,minlast,maxlast
    names = [newname(*tup) for i in range(n)]
    f = open(textfilename,"w")
    for name in names:   f.write("%s\n" %name)
    f.close()
    Z = ZipFile(archivename,'w',ZIP_DEFLATED)
    Z.write(textfilename)
    Z.close()

if __name__=='__main__':
    main()




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 16:59:25 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:59:25 GMT
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it>

Michael Peuser wrote:
   ...
> A very good reply! But I have an answer as well: The only reason why Linux
> got a market share is Moore's Law. Nobody of clear commercial thinking

Moore's Law is working in favour of higher level languages even harder
than it's working in favour of free but highly efficient OS's.

> will pay $200 for an operating system when the hardware has the same

Most Linux use of commercial significance is not happening on such
incredibly cheap systems, but rather on reasonably substantial servers
(or sometimes even mainframes -- IBM _has_ invested a lot in Linux:-).

The issue you mention MAY play a role in ensuring a nice for Lindows
(and other desktop-oriented versions of Linux), but the server side
is where Linux got its first foothold.

> price! There is nothing like that happening with respect to languages or
> development tools. Commercially it is of no major significance whether a
> tool costs $100, 1000 or 10.000. The real money has to be paid for the
> programmer, for testing, for maintenance, for advertising, for waranty;
> 1000 to 10.000 times as much!

Moore's Law is crucial in determining how much performance is necessary
to make a given piece of software good enough.  Once upon a time, only
machine code was good enough -- hardware performance was SO costly that
it was cheaper to employ ten times as many programmers than to get HW
ten times faster, for most tasks of practical significance.

In the late '50s/early '60s, the first high-level programming languages
began to gain substantial commercial foothold -- because, thanks to
Moore's Law (not formulated yet, but already in action), the price/
performance of hardware was getting good enough to afford _some_ minor
inefficiencies in order to save on programming effort.

The gradual spread of higher-level languages to more and more areas
is following just the same law.  For any given program functionality,
you can get it cheaper (and slower) by using a higher-level language
than by using a lower-level one.  The cheapness applies just as much
to testing and maintenance as to development -- there's less to test
and less to maintain for any given amount of (say) FP's.  And the
speed-to-market results in hitting market windows better and thus can
even reduce the needed investments in advertising (as for warranties,
they don't currently play any significant role in big-money software,
or else Microsoft, with its level of bugginess and security issues,
would be broke many times over by now;-)


> So it comes to the question: What does the common programmer know? This is

Not necessarily.  If common programmers only knew machine language,
it would still be cheaper to use any available high-level language,
say COBOL, even if you needed to supply training for it (it's not
hard to teach COBOL to somebody who knows assembly, anyway -- the
reverse is harder).  Similarly, using Python can lower costs even
if you factor in training costs (again, teaching Python to good
Cobol programmers is quite easy -- other higher-level languages may
not be _quite_ as cheap in these terms, admittedly, but still the
economics aren't _hugely_ different).


Alex




From mrroach at okmaybe.com  Wed Sep  3 10:31:05 2003
From: mrroach at okmaybe.com (Mark Roach)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:31:05 GMT
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.03.14.24.37.583694@okmaybe.com>

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:32:42 -0700, ulysses wrote:

> Hi,all
> 
> I use wxPython make a bittorrent client. I find wxPython very slow and
> use many many memory.
> When app start, it need 19MB memory. I only use common GUI components.
> Python is a really good
> programming language. But how to do a small,smart, efficency GUI in
> win32,it's a big question.
[snip] 
> 5. I have a another idea. use wxWindows (c lan) build a GUI. embed
> python code .
> or embed wxWindows code to python by SWIG. I have't test it. if you
> have do it.
> Please tell us.

Swig is how wxPython works already. If you wanted to do the whole gui in
C++, and just have python launch the code, you can do an extension pretty
easily, see my wiki entry here: 
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/C_2b_2bExtensions
(I'm not sure that this will make any difference wrt memory usage though.)


I think that letting C++ "drive" your code will be a significantly greater
time investment, I'm not sure how much of an effort it is to get the
python mainloop and the wxWin mainloop to work together, but since it is
already done for me with wxPython, I don't think I'll go trying to find
out either :-)

-Mark



From nospam at here.com  Tue Sep 16 15:39:29 2003
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:39:29 +0100
Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)
References: <lsJ9b.13162$x21.6784@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1063740937.38115.0@doris.uk.clara.net>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lsJ9b.13162$x21.6784 at twister.southeast.rr.com...
> How can I have tooltips for buttons of a toolbar
> or for control items of a dialog?
> Does such feature exist at all?
>

You can use the Pmw.Balloon widget to do this.

For Pmw (Python Mega Widgets), see: http://pmw.sourceforge.net/

John Grayson's book 'Python and Tkinter Programming' (see
http://www.manning.com/grayson/index.html) has some examples which use it.

The code in the book can be downloaded from
http://www.manning.com/getpage.html?project=grayson&filename=Source.html

RT








From oystein at gnubg.org  Wed Sep 17 16:15:23 2003
From: oystein at gnubg.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D8ystein_Johansen?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:15:23 +0200
Subject: texi2html in a cgi ?
In-Reply-To: <33803989.0309171007.28ca7fda@posting.google.com>
References: <8vL9b.30567$Hb.466972@news4.e.nsc.no> <33803989.0309171007.28ca7fda@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F68C0DB.8030305@gnubg.org>

Miki Tebeka wrote:
> I see two ways:
> 1. Write the texi file to disk (use tempfile.mkstemp) and run the script
>    (using os.system) on it and send back the result
> 2. Import texi2html (make sure it's in sys.path) and use it (this is not tested...)
> ----
> from texi2html import TexinfoParser, HTMLHelp
> from tempfile import mkdtemp
> from os.path import dirname, join
> 
> def to_html(file):
>     '''Convert texinfo to html. Return top html file'''
>     outdir = mkdtemp()
>     parser = TexinfoParser()
>     parser.sethtmlhelp(HTMLHelp("",""))
>     parser.setincludedir(dirname(file))
>     parser.setdirname(outdir)
>     parser.parse(open(file))
>     return join(outdir, "%s.html" % parser.topname)

It works locally with the file below:

#!/usr/bin/python
from texi2html import TexinfoParser, HTMLHelp
from tempfile import gettempdir
from os.path import dirname, join
 

def to_html(file):
     '''Convert texinfo to html. Return top html file'''
     outdir = gettempdir()
     parser = TexinfoParser()
     parser.sethtmlhelp(HTMLHelp("",""))
     parser.setincludedir(dirname(file))
     parser.setdirname(outdir)
     parser.parse(open(file,"r"))
     return join(outdir, "%s.html" % parser.topname)
 

to_html("faq.texi")

It creates several html files in /tmp/, one file for each section, but 
how do I create only one file, faq.html?

> Remeber to delete the directory from time to time ...

I will!

>>(Unexperienced Python programmer, who has just fallen in love with this 
>>beautiful programming language.)
> 
> The more you'll know the deeper you'll fall in love :-)

More and more each day!

Thanks,
-?ystein




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 11:12:28 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:12:28 +0100
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <10c662fe.0309270545.1fd5d839@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c89bnv8j8n5gf484fgpl6tgj7blu4cedju@4ax.com>

On 27 Sep 2003 06:45:23 -0700, roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De
Almeida) wrote:

>Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g at 4ax.com>...
>> I would have expected, given that the tuple contains slice objects
>> constructed from the multiple-slice notation, that the same
>> translations would be performed on the slices that are inserted into
>> the tuple that are applied when the single slice is created.
>> 
>> That is, whether the single or multiple notation is used, and whether
>> the slice objects are placed in a tuple or not, they are constructed
>> from the tuple notation - the translation from notation to slice
>> object should be done consistently.
>
>Yes, I believe I was not very clear. This is the inconsistency I was
>talking about. (And this is with Python 2.3.1)

Hmmm.

I basically used your earlier print-the-index-to-getitem code (on
Python 2.3) and got...

"""
>>> a[:-1]
slice(None, -1, None)
"""

but then I realised I did one thing different compared with your
example - I inherited from 'object', creating a new-style class (which
is getting to be a habit). Doing it without the inheritence from
object, I got...

"""
>>> b[:-1]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: y instance has no attribute '__len__'
"""

which is exactly what you got. Which suggests that the attempt to
translate that '-1' to a positive subscript is an old convenience,
kept for backward compatibility in old-style classes, but dropped for
greater generality in new-style classes.

I can understand the assumed-to-be old approach - slicing isn't
implemented at present on any builtin container except those that use
subscripts (it works on lists but not dictionaries, for example) but
in terms of generality I'm rather glad we can opt out of it by using
new style classes. While hashing doesn't support it, some
mapping-style data structures can reasonably support slicing by key -
and as in your example, even when using subscripts (as in your
example) the length may be unknown in advance, and the container may
not even have a simple scalar length.

>Data is only retrieved when you slice a variable like above, and only
>the data sliced is requested from the OPeNDAP server, instead of the
>whole range. If I use multiple slices, eg,

Makes good sense.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From pieter.lust at katho.overbodig.be  Fri Sep 12 03:16:16 2003
From: pieter.lust at katho.overbodig.be (Pieter Lust)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:16:16 GMT
Subject: [newbie] File handle destroyed before pending write is executed?
Message-ID: <3f6172be.1493111@news.tijd.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to learn myself Python. Doing that, I tried to implement
something logfile-ish. The essence looked like this:

# main module
import logmodule

mylog = logmodule.logfile()
mylog.enter('something')
# pass
# end main module

# logmodule
class logfile:
	def __init__(self):
		self.fh = file('log.txt', 'w')
	def __del__(self):
		self.fh.close()
	def enter(self, text):
		self.fh.write('%s\n' % text)
# end logmodule

After running the main module, log.txt was empty, though no exceptions
were raised. To get the text into the file, I had to add the pass
statement that's commented out above.

In debug mode, the line cursor jumps from the last line of the main
module into the __del__() method of the logmodule, but not into the
enter() method.  

It seems that when the pass statement is not there:
- the interpreter parses the mylog.enter() line
- then sees that it is the last statement in the module
- because of that at once destroys all local objects in it, even
though the last statement requires one of those local objects
- this causes the __del__ method of the logfile to be called, so the
file is closed
- and only afterwards actually executes the last statement, which
fails but does not raise an error.

Is this what actually happened? And if so, is this triggerhappy
destroying required behaviour of a Python interpreter? (I'm using
v2.2, in the ActiveState PythonWin distribution.)

Thanks for improving my understanding of Python.

Pieter Lust



From mwh at python.net  Fri Sep 19 08:12:38 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:12:38 GMT
Subject: Access to Win API
References: <d541d61d12758a2b45ea1de78809beac@news.meganetnews.com> <mailman.1063964485.26108.python-list@python.org> <0c58d500ac94b27d7f8ff87a2a59f6e1@news.meganetnews.com> <mailman.1063972528.8838.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h33cetj818.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> Ladv?nszky K?roly wrote:
> > Thanks for your help. I remember once I tried a Python cookbook sample code
> > that included ctypes but now 'import ctypes' does not work.
> > Should ctypes come together with the 2.3 installation? [...]
> 
> No, it's a third-party module that you need to download and install.
> 
> Google says it's at http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/,
> but the Starship seems to be down ATM [1]. 

It's only DNS woes.  Try IP 217.160.219.194.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Darned confusing, unless you have that magic ingredient coffee, of
  which I can pay you Tuesday for a couple pounds of extra-special
  grind today.                           -- John Mitchell, 11 Jan 1999



From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Sun Sep 28 14:05:02 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 11:05:02 -0700
Subject: Distutils Configuration for Visual Studio 6?
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309280919.188478bb@posting.google.com>

I have tried to run setup from source for PyOpenGL and PIL and on both
I get this error

"error: Python was built with version 6 of Visual Studio, and
extensions need to be built with the same version of the compiler, but
it isn't installed."

I definitely have VS6 installed. I can't figure out were in the code
this error is getting generated and it doesn't mention anything about
VS in the distutils documentation. Does anyone know how to get around
this error?

                                  Thanks Joey



From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Mon Sep 29 06:22:11 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 03:22:11 -0700
Subject: VB6 thin client
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0309290222.7a0c4312@posting.google.com>

Suppose I wanted to combine a thin client written in VB6 with a server
on a remote machine. Since this is the python group, assume for now
that it could be written in python (although VB6 would be a nice
alternative). What technologies would I use?



From mpeuser at web.de  Mon Sep  8 02:01:16 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 08:01:16 +0200
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjh60e$g6u$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"dan" <danbmil99 at yahoo.com>
> I was recently surprised, and quite shocked in fact, to find that
> Python treats negative indices into sequence types as if they were
> mod(length-of-sequence), at least up to -len(seq).
>
> This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.

I think it is addressed even in most tutorials because it is quite handy as
others already pointed out. There is the same fetaure in Perl.

Kindly
Michael P






From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Sep  5 07:48:39 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 13:48:39 +0200
Subject: Invisible function attributes
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com> <87he3tfopa.fsf@pobox.com> <51809ae4.0309040627.28d7a075@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfwucno3qg.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

lefevrol at yahoo.com (Olivier Lefevre) writes:

> Nudged by the dot syntax, I was thinking of this function attribute as
> if it were a sort of class member (i.e., pretending for a while this
> function is a class) and, since functions can't have instances, treating
> it as a sort of static member of the function, which should be available
> as soon as declared.

There is no declaration in Python; you just create attributes by
binding objects to names.

> Obviously I got it all wrong. Instead, they work like local
> variables except that they "persist" after the function has exited.

Hmmm. No. Functions are first class objects, and you can dynamically
add attributes to them as you go along (as is the case for many, but
not all, other types of objects).

Do you realize that the foo identifier you used in your example is not
inextricably linked to any function whose name is foo? The name of a
function, and the variables to which it is bound are two different
concepts.

Consequently, the foo.a in the function body only _coincidentally_
refers to an attribute of the function in which it appears.

Consider:

>>> def foo(arg): foo.a = arg
... 
>>> bar = foo   # Now the function is known by two different names
>>> bar(3)
>>> foo.a
3
>>> foo = 1  # Now the function called "foo" can only be accessed via bar !
>>> bar(4) 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in foo
TypeError: 'int' object has only read-only attributes (assign to .a)
>>> bar # I call it "bar", bit it thinks it's called "foo"
<function foo at 0x815e71c>
>>> 

The error at "bar(4)" in the above should hint at the fact that the
"foo" in "foo.a" in the definition of the function foo, does not refer
to the function itself but to whatever object which happens to be
bound to the name "foo" at the time the function is being exectuted.

> What are they used for? Give me a compelling reason to have such a
> beast in the language.

Now there's a good question :-)  I haven't found a use for these
myself ... but then I haven't looked very hard for one.

Given that function attributes were added to the language (in version
2.1 or 2.2 ?), I guess someone felt a need for them, and Guido agreed.



From dfh at forestfield.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 09:07:00 2003
From: dfh at forestfield.co.uk (David Hughes)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:07 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Stuck building a Python extension
Message-ID: <memo.20030925140741.2140G@forestfield.compulink.co.uk>

I'm nearly there building a Python extension module to access a set of 
functions in a .dll, but I'm getting an unresolved external error for one 
of the function calls (using MS Visual C++ V6).

The function prototype is:

extern short __stdcall SharewareLimit(char * s1, char * s2, short i);

which I'm calling from:

static PyObject *oneway_SharewareLimit(self, args)
    PyObject *self;    /* Not used */
    PyObject *args;
{
    char * company;
    char * software;
    short evalperiod;
    short expired;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"ssh:SharewareLimit",&company ,&software, 
&evalperiod))
        return NULL;

    expired =  SharewareLimit(company ,software, evalperiod);

    return Py_BuildValue("h",expired);
}

I would expect the code to be calling a function called _SharewareLimit at 10 
to match the size of the arguments (and which I have called successfully 
from a Fortran program in the past), but the unresolved external is 
_SharewareLimit at 12, implying that somewhere the short 2-byte integer is 
being promoted to 4 bytes.

I know this is probably a C compiler (settings?) not a Python problem, but 
I'd appreciate some assistance as my knowledge in this area is sketchy.

Thanks, David.




From mpeuser at web.de  Sun Sep  7 10:36:43 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:36:43 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours> <bjco6f$fsc$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87n0dhpm1t.fsf@pobox.com> <bjel6h$dd4$05$1@news.t-online.com> <8765k44uma.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bjffqt$jn$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8765k44uma.fsf at pobox.com...

> I'm afraid I've reached the same conclusion as Alex -- you're really
> not trying, so I find I've lost enthusiasm to reply any more to your
> posts.

So sorry - most probably my fault. But maybe this article may make you smile
a little.

http://spike.scu.edu.au/~barry/RealProgrammers1.html

Kindly
Michael P





From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Sep 15 03:01:33 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guetttler)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:01:33 +0200
Subject: pyc2py
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de>

Hi!

Is there a script which converts compiled python code
to human readable code? 

Google found no result for "pyc2py".

 thomas




From tibi87 at hanmail.net  Fri Sep 26 11:53:57 2003
From: tibi87 at hanmail.net (Jenny)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 08:53:57 -0700
Subject: Access to database other web sites
Message-ID: <b125f336.0309260753.189000d8@posting.google.com>

I am doing research about realationship between sales rates and
discounted prices or recommendation frequency. To do this, I need to
access the database of commercial web sites via internet. I think this
is possible because it it simmilar to the work of price comparison
sites and web robot.

I am studying python these days because I thinks it is a good language
for the work. Actually I am a novice at python.

I welcome any informaion about this problem. Thanks in advance.



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Sep 27 16:55:12 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 06:55:12 +1000
Subject: Here is a new, free Python icon/logo
In-Reply-To: <b16e4ef7.0309270957.76da1e40@posting.google.com>
References: <b16e4ef7.0309270957.76da1e40@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1064696112.1190.15.camel@emilio>

On Sun, 2003-09-28 at 03:57, Stephen Ferg wrote:
> I've developed a little Python icon/logo suitable for use on a Web
> page.  It is in the public domain.
> 
> http://www.ferg.org/python_logos/index.html
> 
> It is not the most artistically sophisticated thing in the world, but
> it is bold and colorful.   Feel free to use it as you wish.

Nice logo, but why the herpetological obsession? We all know why Python
is called Python, so isn't a mascot like this far more Pythonic:
http://solair.eunet.yu/~janko/birdman.gif
-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0


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From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Thu Sep 11 02:47:01 2003
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:47:01 +0200
Subject: Arctec newsletter mentions Guido's move
Message-ID: <3F601A65.3040804@embeddedsystems.nl>

At <http://www.arctecgroup.net/030905.htm> the move of Guido is brought 
to the attention of the broader enterprise and IT world:

> Stay Tuned for Security Improvements
> A development that went unnoticed by major IT media which may turn out to 
> have positive and broad implications for security and development occurred 
> at Elemental Security. Python programming language inventor Guido van 
> Rossum joined the very productive Dan Farmer, author of security tools 
> such as SATAN and COPS, at Elemental Security.
> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2003/08/14/gvr_interview.html
> 

kind regards Gerrit

-- 
Gaudi systems architecting:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep  3 12:01:21 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:01:21 +0300
Subject: Extracting TIFF from emails
References: <bc258e66.0309030604.1fdc0e8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5m3clv83ud55ml14kcof9nnpuurifb6n11@4ax.com>

On 3 Sep 2003 07:04:17 -0700, rumours say that ryan at ryanswift.com (Ryan
Swift) might have written:

>Hi, I'm new to Python, so this may be an easy solution.  I'm having
>trouble extracting TIFF files from incoming emails.  Actually, I think
>the root of my problem is that I'm having trouble reading the email
>header.  Does anyone have an easy solution?  Thanks in advance.

Check the email package.  Read about the following:

* email.message_from_file
(Assuming you have your incoming mail in a text file)
* class email.Message, its walk method

For each part in the .walk() call, check the .get_content_type() result,
and if it's an 'image/tiff', you have the image data calling
.get_payload(decode=True)

Roughly :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Sep 24 19:28:07 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:28:07 -0700
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <kgj3nvgn6cnp9u3f66cb2vtok697lgjt89@4ax.com> <3f721b0c-fce176ad-f4e1-4bdc-8527-cc05ef24ad42@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <3F722887.F4521F68@alcyone.com>

Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:

> Anyway you look at it, killing blindly is bad programming practice.

But he's killing with a signal of 0.  From kill(2):

       If sig is 0, then no signal is sent, but error checking is
       still performed.

It's perfectly reasonable behavior to kill a process with a 0 signal; it
does no harm.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I love mankind; it's people I can't stand.
\__/  Charles Schultz



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Sep  5 22:16:51 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:16:51 -0400
Subject: Anybody else having problem *sending* mail to this list?
References: <mailman.1062713657.19120.python-list@python.org>        <yuGcnUKAscCcQ8qiXTWJjA@comcast.com> <mailman.1062780020.16308.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t92dnVN_GuAJ3sSiXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062780020.16308.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Terry> Yes, a worldwide virus-induced mail blizzard.
>
> This has been my biggest gripe about the damn virus.  The virus
itself was
> no problem for me since I don't use Windows, but the thousands of
"you have
> a virus!" mails sent in response clogged my inbox until I trained
SpamBayes
> to view them as spam.  Is there any reasonable way to get the
anti-virus
> vendors to realize they are a very large part of the problem?
Shouldn't
> virus scanners simply eat the virus and not send another mail?  Does
anyone
> have a list of a-v vendors' email addresses so I can harangue them a
bit on
> the topic?

How about sending them 'virus' mail with their own addresses as the
faked return, so they can spam themselves and each other?

Terry ;-)





From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Wed Sep 24 16:35:45 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:35:45 GMT
Subject: Newbie: Changing a string to a class attribute.
In-Reply-To: <33fbf9ec.0309241210.7acfddb9@posting.google.com>
References: <33fbf9ec.0309241210.7acfddb9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Bencb.569628$o%2.254546@sccrnsc02>

Jacob H wrote:

> This is a very simple problem and I'm sure the answer is a no brainer.
> However my brain can't see the answer. ;)
> 
> Given code like this:
> 
> def exec_method(object, method):
>     # object is an instantiated object, e.g. log
>     # method is a string that matches a method of object, e.g.
> "update"
>     # code stuff here that calls object.method, e.g. log.update()
>     
> What is the best way to turn method, a string, into a valid reference
> to the actual class method? My first thought was eval(). But I can't
> do this:
> 
>     eval("class.method()")
> 
> Eval will look for a method actually called method() and there isn't
> one. What's a good solution for this? Heck, for all I know, Python
> implicitly provides functionality to solve this problem. Can anyone
> help? :)

getattr(x, method)()

However, it isn't usually necessary to do this, because if x is an 
object with method update, x.update is an object which can be passed or 
stored.

David





> 
> Jake




From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Sep  4 21:16:39 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:16:39 -0400
Subject: Anybody else having problem *sending* mail to this list?
In-Reply-To: <yuGcnUKAscCcQ8qiXTWJjA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEBJFLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Terry Reedy]
> Yes, a worldwide virus-induced mail blizzard.  Someone (Skip M. I
> think) annouced yesterday or so that the Python mail server was down
> for a breather.  Today, someone said it was backed-up, back up, but
> slow.  Hence, this arrived at Giganews over a day after you sent it.

During part of this mess, the email server also ran out of disk space, and
the older exim version in use appeared to keep crashing under the load.  As
a result, last I heard (this afternoon) Barry was pretty sure that a great
many messages are simply going to be lost forever, on the order of
100,000(!).  Almost all of those are worm turds (idiotic "you have a virus!"
warnings sent back by other email servers in response to a Sobig message
with headers forged to make it look like it came from python.org).  Still,
some real email is doubtless lost too.  People looking for someone to blame
should focus on Sobig's author -- Barry has endured enough abuse <0.6 wink>.





From colarte at telesat.com.co  Mon Sep 22 02:05:30 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 01:05:30 -0500
Subject: Pmw menubutton enable/disable, better answer ..
In-Reply-To: <bkf001$stj$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
References: <bkf001$stj$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <20030922010530.4432840b.colarte@telesat.com.co>

 Well i needed to do something like that , so i came up with this example .
 the main idea here is using the entryconfig with an index that can be the same 
 as the label you gave to the menubutton
 Hope it helps ...

<Python Code> 
!/usr/bin/python
#tkex1.py - tkDemo#1 1.1 - 30 May 01
#A Windows/Unix script to demonstrate basic Tkinter programming
#Update at http://www.3dartist.com/WP/python/tknotes.htm#tkex1
#Created by Bill Allen <dempy at 3dartist.com> --Modified by Camilo Olarte .9/22/2003

usingIDLE = 0                    #set = 1 if running from IDLE, otherwise 0
import tkMessageBox
import Tkinter as tk
#--- classes ---
class uiClass:                                  #user interface class
    def __init__(self,master,ar,xy,flex):       #  used once for main GUI
	self.master = master
        menubar = tk.Menu(master)               #create a menu object tied
        master.config(menu=menubar)             #  to the root parent
        self.mainmenu = tk.Menu(menubar,tearoff=0)   #create a dropdown menu
	self.mainmenu.add_command(label='Exit',underline=1,command=self.quit)
	self.mainmenu.add_command(label='Do Something',underline=1,command=self.fnDoSomething)
	self.mainmenu.add_command(label='Kill Exit :) ',underline=1,command=self.fnDeactivateMenu)
	menubar.add_cascade(label='Main',       #give the dropdown menu a
                            menu=self.mainmenu,      #  name & add it to the 
                            underline=0)        #  menu object
        self.frame = tk.Toplevel(relief='ridge', #border style
                                 borderwidth=2, #create the main GUI window
                                 menu=menubar)  #  with its menu object
        self.frame.geometry(ar+xy)              #set its size & location
        self.frame.resizable(flex,flex)         #(dis)allow resize horiz/vert
        if not usingIDLE:                       #system window exit protocol
            self.frame.protocol('WM_DELETE_WINDOW',self.quit)
        #end def self.__init__ 
    def fnDoSomething(self):
	tkMessageBox.showinfo('!!','Doin Somethin!:')

    def quit(self):
        if usingIDLE:
            self.frame.destroy()
        else:
            self.frame.quit()
            root.quit()

    def fnDeactivateMenu(self):
	self.mainmenu.entryconfig(self.mainmenu.index("Exit"), state=tk.DISABLED)
    #end define uiClass
#--- do some work ---
if __name__ == '__main__':              #optional, but good practice
    root = tk.Tk()
    root.title('tkDemo#1')
    root.withdraw()                     #suppress unwanted window
    mainUI = uiClass(root,              #set up the main GUI window
                     '400x200',         #  width & height
                     '+20+20'           #  initial XY screen location
                     ,0)                #  resizing turned off
    if not usingIDLE:                   #avoid IDLE or other Tkinter IDEs
        root.mainloop()                 #outer event loop

</Python Code> 
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From nick.keighley at marconi.com  Wed Sep 24 05:13:39 2003
From: nick.keighley at marconi.com (Nick Keighley)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 02:13:39 -0700
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
Message-ID: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com>

I'm probably missing something rather obvious, but is there a known 
problem with getting a Python based socket program to communicate with
a C based socket program? A simple echo server written in Python
(the example from Python in a Nutshell actually) will happily talk
to a Python based client. If a C based client is substitued the connection
is refused (or so the C client reports). The C client will talk to
a C server.


-- 
Nick Keighley



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep  6 16:56:36 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:56:36 -0400
Subject: [2.3] object does not appear to be a reserved word
References: <v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Wn2dnS7xtPmY18eiU-KYvg@comcast.com>

"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8 at 4ax.com...
> Is it potentially dangerous to use the variable 'object' in code?

Yes, it is potentially dangerous to use any of the names in the
builtin module.  It is disrecommended for posted/public code without
good reason (intentional override).

TJR





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep  8 14:20:56 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 18:20:56 GMT
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1063008921.29868.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjiha8$aae$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:13:45 +0100, "Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote:

>Bengt Wrote
>>It looks slick, but not really technically slick in a way
>>that would lead me to expectations about Python, just
>>eye-candy/we-spend-more-on-advertising-than-research
>>kind of slick (though for largely irrelevant photos, I
>>prefer pretty things and/or great photography ;-)
>
>What has amazed me throughout the pulling of a discussion
>Onto the Python list is the amount of furor that has been
>generated by the use of three photographs. The marketing 
>content of the website takes only 7% of the space of the
>main page. The remaining is textual navigation content.
>
Being goosed is not a matter of percentages ;-)

>If we're in a position where people hate photography then
If you take my post to mean I hate photography, then you misread.
I said, "I prefer pretty things and/or great photography."

>I think we have to accept that this is an irrational 
>problem and that it shouldn't affect the promotion of
>Python in the computer industry.
>
Emotional responses are irrational, yes, but that is what "promotion"
is about. Simply making information easily available for rational
decision-making promotes use, but that's not "promotion" in the sales
department sense of "pushing" sales.

I suspect this distinction is at the root of some of the "furor."
My concern is that Python will be "sold" on some basis other than
its many objectively solid merits.

(Of course, the merits of interest to software developers and to business executives
are not identical. Success stories will interest the latter more than metaclasses and mro.
So a single portal page for all must lead easily to resources of interest to all on first
encounter. As has been mentioned, developers will no doubt bookmark dev.python.org or whatever
becomes the main page for developers, so the home page now becomes a matter of balanced PR
and well thought out top level indexing).

Photographs of people in role settings serve to trigger identification/wannabe
responses (sometimes the role is in relation to the depicted rather than the
depicted's role). (So why don't we have a picture of a hot Victoria's-secret model as
businesswoman in a hot roadster giving a ride to an Armani-dressed(?) geek with an armload
of Python books? And maybe work in a collage of success-reward recreation resort images
for subliminal background effect? Sex, food, energy to squander -- buy it, buy it! ;-)

I'm not quite immune ;-) But what is the goal here?

>For those still commenting on the contrast issue, please
>understand that there are accessibility guidelines that
>suggest a use of 70% contrast in order to maximise readability
>for all users.
Hopefully a minor adjustment issue.

>
>These are my last comments on the comp.lang.python mailing list.
>If anyone wants to continue the disucssion and really help to
>create/promote Python, please move to either
>
I can hardly keep up with c.l.py, never mind more ;-/

>http://pythonology.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-python
>
>or
>
>http://pythonology.org/mailman/listinfo/py-design-forum
>
>The second list if it's website or design related.
>
Hope my reactions are useful data.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From roy at panix.com  Fri Sep  5 13:46:31 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 13:46:31 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <bja4i5$gv6$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <bjai5n$65f$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <bja4i5$gv6$1 at news.wrc.xerox.com>,
Mark Jackson <mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> writes:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am 
>> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across 
>> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like 
>> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
>> few years, about Python or IT in general.
>
>/The Mythical Man-Month/.

When you're done with that, try Ed Yourdon's "Death March".




From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 14:37:22 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:37:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: date formatting
In-Reply-To: <bjsvn4$3j0$1@sun-news.laserlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030912183722.65252.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com>

This works, with Python 2.3:

from datetime import datetime
datetime.fromtimestamp(os.stat('thefile').st_mtime).strftime('%y%d%m')

It leaves out the call to localtime, but now you're constructing a 
datetime object, so it's really not more direct.  Some may find it
more readable, or at least I think it is, er... well slightly :)

On Linux os.stat() returns an object of type posix.stat_result,
I wonder if this type could be enhanced so that one could do this:

os.stat('thefile').mdatetime.strftime('%y%d%m')

(mdatetime returning a datetime object)

Naturally we'd probably want os.stat('thefile').cdatetime and so 
on too...


--- WmGill <wmgill at wmgill.com> wrote:
> I want to write a script that Among other things) renames a file based on
> it's timestamp.
> I can get the date info using
> "strftime('%y%m%d',localtime(os.stat('thefile')[ST_MTIME])", but this seems
> like a long way around the block.  Is there a more direct way?
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 19:03:30 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:03:30 +0300
Subject: build a static python executable on linux?
References: <blacgq$2qe$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <g7ehnv0r4okuds8jarvmqj6tnntlm0bvhs@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:42:34 -0700, rumours say that Alexandre Gillet
<gillet at scripps.edu> might have written:

>I am trying to build a python interpreter that is static link.
>My python interpreter was build on RedHat 8.0 using gcc 2.3 and GLIBC 2.3
>When running on other linux flavor that still have GLIBC 2.2, the 
>interpreter won't start. (error message:  /lib/libc.so.6: version 
>`GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /mgl/python/i86Linux2/bin/python2.3)

I believe you should install the glibc-static-devel package and then
find the approprate options for gcc (my noisy linux computer is turned
off now so I can't man gcc, but IIRC is -static :) in order to build a
static python.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Sep 20 20:13:22 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:13:22 -0400
Subject: What is the meaning of the astarisk in Python
References: <3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vmpr8h4tbkcec7@news.supernews.com>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message
news:3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> Hi
> Below is a line taken from Andy Dustman's MySQLdb module:
> def Connect(*args, **kwargs):
>
> I would be grateful if somebody explain the meaning of the astarisks,
since
> I was under the impression that pointers are not used in Python and the
> above look very must like pointers to me

One asterisk creates a list of all positional arguements,
two asterisks creates a dictionary of all keyword arguements.
"All" means "not otherwise represented in the parameter list."

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Best Regards
> John





From nitram2000 at videotron.ca  Sun Sep 21 13:29:46 2003
From: nitram2000 at videotron.ca (Martin)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:29:46 -0400
Subject: how to find a user in a xml document
Message-ID: <NSnbb.16124$dp6.371720@weber.videotron.net>

hi, I need to find a way to check in a XML document if a certain user exist,
if not i want to add it in the document.
I am able to add it in the xml doc, but I cant make sure he doesnt exist
thanks
Martin





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Sep 25 16:42:15 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 16:42:15 -0400
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn67fhhom95896@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bkvjv7$11a$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <vn67fhhom95896 at corp.supernews.com>,
Michael Geary <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> wrote:
>
>The use case that Alex just posted gave me another way to think about it:
>
>    for item in allitems:
>        if fraboozable(item):
>            print "first fraboozable item is", item
>            break
>    else:
>        print "Sorry, no item is fraboozable"
>
>If I think of the else statement as being related to the if statement
>inside the loop, then it makes some sense--the else statement is
>executed when the if statement never comes up true. (It's twisted
>logic, I know, but at least it helps me keep track of what "else" does
>here.)

Maybe it's twisted logic, but it's the only time I've ever used for/else
in real code.  It helps if instead of thinking of the else as connected
to the if, you think of the entire for loop as being an extended if
statement.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Sep 22 16:35:22 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:35:22 -0500
Subject: pyopengl / python2.3 / win32
Message-ID: <m2smmosgs5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

Does anyone have a a windows installer for pyopengl built for
python2.3 on win32 that they can send me, or a link?

Thanks,
John Hunter




From paul at oz.net  Tue Sep 23 18:55:22 2003
From: paul at oz.net (Paul)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 22:55:22 GMT
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com> <3F6DD4D7.AF309B4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bkqj0q$4vr$0@216.39.144.46>

What's the best way to do this under Python 2.1?
I believe socket.timeout was a 2.3 feature.
Wrap it in threads? 

I'd like to do something similar for the Gibraltar
Linux firewall CD, but it only comes with Python 2.1.

Many thanks in advance.

-- Paul




From ceiesa at excite.com  Sat Sep 27 21:18:15 2003
From: ceiesa at excite.com (Bruce Dickey)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:18:15 -0600
Subject: Meta programming question
Message-ID: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,

I've read a number of the meta progamming articles. I have not found 
what I am looking for. I want to override assignments to variables which 
are in the module namespace (not object members -- no classes involved). 
Can this be done?

Thanks,

Bruce




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Wed Sep  3 05:48:00 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 02:48:00 -0700
Subject: python + mplayer
References: <9d302332.0309020740.29ee6613@posting.google.com> <a5qdnaoqPt_ZU8miRVn-tA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0309030148.2e9078b7@posting.google.com>

Reminds me of something I wanted to do for mplayer, i.e
writing an ncurses interface for it. Python has a curses
module which I am planning to use.

I have not started working on this, but will start sometime
soon. 

-Anand

Jim Dabell <jim-usenet at jimdabell.com> wrote in message news:<a5qdnaoqPt_ZU8miRVn-tA at giganews.com>...
> Mike Zupan wrote:
> 
> > I'm wondering if anyone has a link or made a script to control mplayer
> > via python. I'm aware that freevo does it but I don't wanna debug
> > their code to figure it all out. I'm looking for something very simple
> > that can get me started in controlling mplayer in a python app. I'd
> > like to get a movie into a pygame app i'm doing.
> 
> <URL:http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/> should have everything you need,
> specifically <URL:http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/#slave>.



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Sep 26 12:44:41 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:44:41 -0400
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
In-Reply-To: <16244.22946.446379.622160@montanaro.dyndns.org> (Skip
 Montanaro's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:22:10 -0500")
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
	<16244.22946.446379.622160@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <ur823fqiu.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     David> Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I
>     David> am disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where
>     David> are they?
>
> Dave,
>
> Try the left margin of the /dev/ page.  

Thanks.  I was looking for /dev/, too, but I always forget to scan
the top.  Eventually I got there from the search page.
 
> If you find stuff in PEPs you believe belongs in the standard
> documentation set, please file a documentation bug report.

Oof.  MRO, descriptors, most of PEPs 252 and 253 last time I checked,
just off the top of my head.  Do I you really think it would make a
difference to *formally* point out that many elements of the basic
design of the object model aren't in the docs?

And, this is not a rhetorical question: how many bug reports would be
appropriate for all of this information?  Some of these PEPs cover
several topics.

> While PEPs do contain a lot of valuable information, I don't think
> that using them for end-user documentation was a goal.

Sure, I knew that, but while the docs are still incomplete, you use
what you can, and it would be nice to be sure that the information
was readily accessible.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com





From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Fri Sep 12 09:25:06 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:25:06 GMT
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <mailman.1063332197.23053.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93F49CD8ABAB1JanC@213.118.75.228>

Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.net> schreef:

> This Septmeber 11.

I vote for an amendment to Godwin's Law...

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison 
involving Nazis, Hitler OR SEPTEMBER 11 approaches one."

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From bmproj2003 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 29 03:30:22 2003
From: bmproj2003 at yahoo.com (drn)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 07:30:22 GMT
Subject: query
Message-ID: <2003929-93022-80040@foorum.com>

sir/madam,
 as we are going to develop a educational s/w for children at preprimary level 
we are facing some problems in deciding what platform to choose and what s/w to 
use. so please help.
-we have more of graphics work.
-we have two students working simutaneously on one system.
-we will be having 4-5 systems in total in one classroom.

-----shall we go for one system as a linux sever with somewhat higher 
configuration and rest as terminals (lower configuration)and each terminal 
connected to the server. what configuration do you suggest which is reasonable 
and sufficient.

or

-----shall we go for individual terminals with Linux 7.3, and with a minimum of 
around 600 MB of free space,Minimum requirement for RAM 32 MB. (Not less than 
this),Minimum requirement for Hard Disk 2.1GB,There will be no networking even 
among machines at one location. 

-----which lanuage do you suggest - c/c++ or any browser based software like 
php/python.


please help and send your suggestions as soon as possible.
my email id is bmproj2003 at yahoo.com
thanks and regards
DRN 

-- 
Ce message a ete poste via la plateforme Web club-Internet.fr
This message has been posted by the Web platform club-Internet.fr

http://forums.club-internet.fr/



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Sep  1 01:04:28 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:04:28 -0600
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>; from smory@ptdprolog.net on Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 12:41:14AM -0400
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030831230428.A2521@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Daniel R. Smorey Jr.:
> I'm looking for a good place for Python documentation.  I'm really lost 
> on why it's so hard to find anything when it comes to me looking up a 
> particular function in Python.  My example would be the split() function 
> of the string module.  [...trouble searching for it at python.org...]

For full-text searches, try <http://www.pydoc.org/>.

For functions and whatnot, there's the index of the Library
Reference, <http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/lib/genindex.html>.

  [...]
> Most of those hits are for the re module, not the string module (which 
> in my opinion should be part of python and not a module, but I digress). 

Indeed, in sufficiently recent Pythons (2.0+, I think), split() is
a method of string objects:
    >>> 'foo bar'.split()
    ['foo', 'bar']
Likewise for many other functions in the string module.

(This method is the second hit for "split" at pydoc.org, and is
listed in the Library Reference index.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 17:52:49 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:52:49 -0500
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
In-Reply-To: <731fc603.0309041328.4e83f8ab@posting.google.com>
References: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com>
        <3F5656CA.519ABADF@easystreet.com>
        <731fc603.0309041328.4e83f8ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16215.46129.135630.636460@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> where would i get this csv module from? does it come with python 2.2?
    >> thanks

It comes with Python 2.3.  If you grab the csv and _csv modules from the
Python 2.3 CVS repository, they should build and run under 2.2.x.  If that's
not possible, poke around for Object Craft's csv module.

Skip




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep  9 05:21:54 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:21:54 +0200
Subject: set built-in func_code?
In-Reply-To: <3F5D9A9E.1000305@ghaering.de>
References: <bjk4v2$6iv$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5D9A9E.1000305@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <3F5D9BB2.4020705@ghaering.de>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Birgit Rahm wrote:
>> I want to set the built-in func_code in my function, how can I does 
>> this in the correct way?
> 
> I don't think that's possible for an existing function object. [...]

Well, maybe I should try before I post:

#v+
 >>> def f(): print 5
...
 >>> def g(): print 6
...
 >>> f.func_code = g.func_code
 >>> f()
6
#v-

This is an unnecessary hack, IMO. Hacks aren't bad, but unecessary ones 
are, IMO. Still, what are you trying to achieve?

-- Gerhard




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 15 11:57:28 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:57:28 -0400
Subject: Multiple instances of modules
References: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vmbobnrrlb4m36@news.supernews.com>

"Daniel Pryde" <ababo_2002 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada at posting.google.com...
> Hi there.
>
> I'm currently trying to learn Python, my aim being to create my final
> year project at university using only Python instead of Java. I've run
> into a problem though while trying to make multiple instances of
> modules.
>
> For example, say I made a CD.py module which held details of an audio
> compact dic (album name, track names, etc..), and wanted my Python
> script to make a record collection using multiple CD's, I can't make
> them seperately. I tried using the 'import module as name' format, but
> any changes made to one instance affects the other. I assume this is
> because Python is simply referencing the one instance of CD.py rather
> than seperate ones. Is there a solution to this that doesn't involve
> using cPython or Jython? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I suspect you're trying to store your data in the module itself.
That's not going to work because Python only loads one copy
of a module, by design.

As Anton suggests, please tell us a bit more about what you're
trying to do and the approach you're taking.

John Roth





From ruach at chpc.utah.edu  Thu Sep 18 19:23:43 2003
From: ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 16:23:43 -0700
Subject: problem with user confirmation
Message-ID: <ec1162c7.0309181523.2077b7e5@posting.google.com>

I am have written a medium sized program and everything works fine
except for one piece. At a certain point in the program I want to do a
simple user confirmation, eg Are you sure ? y/n. The problem that I am
having is that after the user enters an answer and presses enter, the
program executes the rest of the code regardless of what the user
response was.

Heres my code:

def confirmAction(self, msg):
		if not msg:
			msg = 'Are you sure y/[n]> '
		print msg
		confirm = sys.stdin.readline()[:-1]
		print 'confirm = \'%s\'' %(confirm)
		if confirm == 'y' or 'Y' or 'Yes' or 'YES' or 'yes':
			return 1
		return 0

if confirmAction('Are you sure you want to DEACTIVATE this port?
y/[n]'):
				print 'Deactivating
				#Do some other stuff
			else:
				sys.exit(-1)

At this point in the program I can enter nothing, or y, or sdfasd, and
no matter what I do it prints 'Deactivating and executes the rest of
my code. I can't figure it out to save my life. I am sure that the
answer is very simple and that I have just been thinking to hard and
have over looked it.

Thanks for any help
-matthew



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 12 16:36:48 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:36:48 -0500
Subject: formatting number in the CSV module
In-Reply-To: <8dad5312.0309120319.13bc9062@posting.google.com>
References: <8dad5312.0309120319.13bc9062@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16226.11872.527476.467886@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Sebastien> I need to output numbers to a csv file and use the new csv
    Sebastien> module in python2.3:

    Sebastien> "
    Sebastien> import csv
    Sebastien> data = [[ 0.321524523,0.5243523],[0.54635643,0.62776]]
    Sebastien> w = csv.writer(file("out.csv","w"))
    Sebastien> w.writerows(data)
    Sebastien> "

    Sebastien> However, I would like to format the number so that only the
    Sebastien> first 2 decimals are stored in the csv file.

There's nothing built into the csv module.  You can format the floats before
passing them to the writer however:

    >>> import csv
    >>> data = [[ 0.321524523,0.5243523],[0.54635643,0.62776]]
    >>> w = csv.writer(file("out.csv","w"))
    >>> for row in data:
    ...     row = ["%.2f"%f for f in row]
    ...     w.writerow(row)
    ... 
    >>> 
    montanaro:tmp% cat out.csv
    0.32,0.52
    0.55,0.63

Skip




From me at privacy.net  Sat Sep 20 21:17:29 2003
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 21:17:29 -0400
Subject: None???
References: <EV6bb.1834$iT4.1283814@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <m2he37549i.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:12:04 GMT,
"News" <jakle1 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I just started using python a few weeks ago. This is my first
> program. You input your income and what percent you want to save
> then it tells you how much to put away. The the code works, but
> it puts in the word "none" after it calls the function. Is the
> call sytax incorrect? I'd appreciate any feedback you could
> offer .

[ ... ]

> weekly_income = income/52

> def compute(income, percent):
>     result = income*percent/100
>     print result

Note that this function prints its result and then returns None.

> print "Ok,",first_name + " " + last_name
> print
> print "This is how much you should put away a week:"
> print "$",compute(weekly_income, percent)

OTOH, it looks like this print statement expects the function to
return its result.

> print
> print "If you stick to this you will go places!!! :-)"

The simplest (and most general) solution would seem to be to
define the function to return its result:

    define compute(income, percent):
        result = income * percent / 100
        return result

Then the print statement will work as written.

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli



From pcolsen at comcast.net  Mon Sep  1 12:29:33 2003
From: pcolsen at comcast.net (Peter Olsen)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 09:29:33 -0700
Subject: Advice to a Junior in High School?
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <3d6c6fc3.0308261246.32db39d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a86143fb.0309010829.1432737d@posting.google.com>

soundinmotiondj at yahoo.com (Stan Graves) wrote in message news:<3d6c6fc3.0308261246.32db39d5 at posting.google.com>...
> "Howard Nease" <hnease at midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314 at clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com>...

Stan Graves and Howard Nease shared the following exchange.  I'd like
to add my two cents.

> > I would be devastated were I to find the need to leave computer science. 
.... 
> > Does anyone have any advice for me and my future? 
...
> > What should I study in
> > college? 
> 
> You should learn to think and to learn in college.  
...
> Study literature - I have yet to see a single computer scientist who
> can manipulate symbols as well as Shakespeare.
....
> > What languages do you suggest that I
> > study (I'm already studying Python)?
> 
> I'd suggest English.  The ability to communicate effectively is
> probably more important than any technical skill.
> 
...
> --Stan Graves

<soapbox-mode>
Howard,

Stan has already given you some excellent advice.  I'd like to add
some more.

I believe that all of education comes down to learning two languages:
whatever you speak at the dinner table and mathematics.

My dinner-table language is English; perhaps yours is as well.  This
is the language we use to talk about what makes us human: our hopes,
our fears, our loves, our hates, and our passions.  You will use this
language to court your partner, lead your peers, and console your
family and friends.

Master it.   Use it with precision.  As Stan wrote, read Shakespeare. 
Read Churchill for his prose.  Read poetry. (I like Robert Service,
plain though he may be.)

To work in a technical field you must write about technical things. 
Read Paul Halmos' and Gil Strang's books on mathematics.  Read "The
Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" by Hal Abelson and
Gerald J. Sussman.  (This is the best computer science book --- and
perhaps the best technical book --- I have ever read.)  Don't worry
about mastering the details, concentrate on the elegance and precision
of their description.  Ideas lost your head are useless; ideas on
paper, but not understood, are tragic.

Buy the "Elements of Style" by Strunk and White.  Keep it handy.  Read
it.  (I keep a copy close to the bathroom.)

Write simple sentences.  Use short words.  These things are harder
than they seem.

Improve your vocabulary.  Excise abstruse words.  Churchill wrote
"Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are best of
all."  He was right.

Just as your dinner-table language lets you describe the inside world
that makes you human, mathematics lets you describe the outside world
in which you live.

Mathematics lets us reason with precision.  Here I use the word
"mathematics" to include almost any formal system for quantitative
reasoning.

I recommend that you learn all the traditional mathematics you can.
Take what courses you can.  Mathematics has helped me learn
engineering, economics, and computer science.  (It has also helped me
write good English.)

Still, you can learn your mathematics the other way around.  Studying
economics, physics, engineering, and computer science can teach you
what you need.  (I've found studying algorithms a particularly good
way to do this.)  One of my friends --- and also David Mertz of Python
fame --- appear to have done it by studying philosophy.

Over all, the purpose of education is not to get a job, but to
understand the world and your place in it.  A few of the best educated
people I have known were barely High School graduates; a few of the
worst have PhDs.

And when you're done, stop.
</soapbox mode>

Peter Olsen, AeE., P.E.
pcolsen at comcast.net

"Engineering is the art of using a professional knowledge of
mathematics and the physical sciences to improve the quality of life."



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Sep 28 10:13:41 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:13:41 -0500
Subject: Meta programming question
In-Reply-To: <znzdb.132998$hE5.4530954@news1.tin.it>
References: <vnce64dgqj047c@corp.supernews.com> <znzdb.132998$hE5.4530954@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <20030928141340.GA18261@unpythonic.net>

The changes are not large, if I understand what the OP is asking for.
However, they have a performance impact on the "common case".

In Python, a dict subclass's __setitem__ is never invoked when
evaluating bytecode.  With a change to just a few opcodes (STORE_GLOBAL,
STORE_NAME), this can be rectified, so that
    >>> exec "x = 3" in d
will call d.__setitem__("x", 3), and you can do whatever you need to do
on "assignment".

The patch was never finished, and never added to the sf patch manager.
You can visit the python-dev thread at 
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-October/029761.html

Jeff




From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Sep  5 15:11:37 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:11:37 +0100
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bj8f4v$8kl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <87brtzu5ak.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bjabc7$mbm$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <87znhjw4r1.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
Message-ID: <bjamuh$hie$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Martin Christensen" <knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk> wrote in message
news:87znhjw4r1.fsf at gvdnet.dk...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> >>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Smith <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> Duncan> Computer Science at Aalborg I see.  A Bayes net man perchance?
> Duncan> I hope Uffe, Kristian et al are well. :-)
>
> Haha! If you're talking about the guys I'm thinking of, I just came
> home from a lovely Friday afternoon beer with them. :-) And yes, I
> happen to be doing a project involving Bayesian networks, but I'm
> originally a database guy. To keep it relevant, I did my masters
> thesis implementation stuff in Python and am very happy I did.
>
> Martin
>

Yes, messrs. Kjaerulff and Olesen.  All my Bayes net stuff is in Python.  I
must tidy it up (and rewrite my Digraph class) so I can make it available.

Duncan





From max at alcyone.com  Wed Sep 10 16:04:01 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:04:01 -0700
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F83B1.48763F85@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> Its not an issue of whether the same effect can be achieved in Python.
> It's more an issue of whether the method used expresses the
> programmers intentions properly.

I agree.  And with your suggestion, now every single function call can
potentially change meaning.  Given Python's dynamicism, you may not even
know if this particular function call exhibits the behavior.  Now
Python's nice, predictable behavior is up for grabs.

If you want to rebinding outside the function, a far better way of
"expressing the programmer's intentions properly," in my opinion, is to
make the behavior as explicit as possible:

	class Container:
	    def __init__(self, x=None): self.x = x
	    def get(self): return self.x
	    def set(self, x): self.x = x
	    def increment(self): self.x += 1 # for example

	def Inc(c):
	    container.increment()

	container = Container(1)
	Inc(container)
	print container.get()

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Dead men have no victory.
\__/  Euripides



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Sep  5 08:31:27 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 14:31:27 +0200
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com> <VUidncLV5oQd88qiU-KYvw@comcast.com> <bj7sr5$jd8$04$1@news.t-online.com> <bj9i3h$kbd$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <tyfsmnbo1r4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Stephan Diehl <stephan.diehl at gmx.net> writes:

> Stephan Diehl wrote:
> 
> > Terry Reedy wrote:
> > 
> >> 'Returners' could wrap no-return mutators with functions or
> >> derived-class methods that do return the object, but I have never seen
> >> anyone post a complete module that does so for, say, all list
> >> mutators.
> > 
> > That's actually a nice idea. I might just do that.
> 
> o.k., the following short code would give you a list class, that returns
> 'self' when invoking any of the mutating methods.

OK, here's a variaton on the theme, just wraps the object in-place in
a way which makes it return self. This way you can get the desired
effect on any object you get, without pre-meditation, so you can still
fit the call chain on one line (wasn't that the point?)

> The solution involves a metaclass

Mine avoids them altogether.

> and I wouldn't consider this code more as an example than an
> industrial strength solution

Ditto.


class returner:

    def __init__(self, object):
        self.object = object

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        def proxy(*args, **kwds):
            getattr(self.object, name)(*args, **kwds)
            return self.object
        return proxy

lst = [1,2,3]
print lst.append(4) # Here you get None
print returner(lst).append(5) # Here you get the modified list.



From llafba at gmx.net  Fri Sep 12 12:34:22 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:34:22 +0200
Subject: read from file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063378611.28790.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1063378611.28790.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjssp8$h57$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi Jeremy,

that helps a lot! The data is being appended so your hints are very 
usefull to me!
Thank you very much.

Tom




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 02:21:02 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:21:02 +0100
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <vn1uus5a74ce3a@news.supernews.com> <w57cb.1289$RW4.1142@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <cud2nv80bufr6gaaodqn302rmf3okv062i@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 02:13:48 GMT, "Andrew Dalke"
<adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>> Frankly, I prefer the notion of a method.
>
>While I don't.

To me, the reason to use a method (or property) is simply that most
types cannot be efficiently 'backwardised'. For instance, iterators in
general would have to be buffered into a list an then the resulting
list iterated backwards. That could be useful, but the overhead is
sufficient that I think explicitly writing 'list (x).backward ()'
rather than 'x.backward ()' would be a good thing.

Having a method (or property) explicitly associates it with the
object/class being handled.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Sep  9 00:52:59 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 21:52:59 -0700
Subject: Ternary operator
References: <mailman.1063061222.13387.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vlqn5bbevptv38@corp.supernews.com>

Timothy Delaney wrote:
> FWIW, I definitely fall in the "would not oppose" group, and not
> the "actively want" group. I prefer not to use a ternary operator
> in any language. My bias may well be affecting my understanding.

That certainly would make a difference. I'm in just the opposite camp, being
someone who uses the ternary operator very frequently in C++. So I really
miss it in Python. But I'd still take Python without the ternary operator
over C++ with it! :-)

-Mike





From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  1 22:02:56 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:02:56 -0700
Subject: TKinter is driving me crazy!
References: <3285.208.224.10.29.1062445601.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net> <mailman.1062448983.22163.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj0tgc$e4kup$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

|     import Tkinter as tk
|
|    class GuessWidget(tk.Frame):
|        def __init__(self, value, *args, **kw):
|
|            tk.Frame.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
| ....

Jp ....

    Thanks for posting this example script ....

    How does one change the  title
    of the sub-classed frame ????

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep  9 04:07:41 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 01:07:41 -0700
Subject: Jython class names
References: <zsNtMLAchYX$EwY3@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F5D8A4D.DC5F1281@alcyone.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> I recently came across a problem with porting to Jython
> 
> basically the following is prints 1 in CPython, but not in Jython.
> 
> class C:
>         pass
> 
> red = C()
> print red.__class__.__name__ is 'C'
> 
> it seems that Jython doesn't intern names in the same way or instances
> are not constructed in the same way. Is the above test robust or
> should
> I always be using == for testing class names?

You should be testing string equality with ==.  Whether two strings that
are equal are actually the same string (is) is an implementation detail.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I sidestep the either/.or choices of logic and choose both.
\__/  Ken Feit



From tomas.kukosa at siemens.com  Thu Sep 18 09:35:19 2003
From: tomas.kukosa at siemens.com (Tomas Kukosa)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:35:19 +0200
Subject: ASN.1 source reader
Message-ID: <3F69B497.CEF764ED@siemens.com>

Hello,
  does anybody know any way how to read ASN.1 source into Python?
I can not find any ASN.1 parser.

The next way can be ASN.1 -> XML -> Python but I did not find any ASN.1
-> XML convertor which keeps all ASN.1 information in XML.
E.g. ASN2XSD tool from obj-sys.com loses information about extension
mark position.

  Thanks,
    Tom



From achrist at easystreet.com  Tue Sep  9 12:52:13 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:52:13 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org> <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com> <3f5dec0d@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F5E053D.743DA13A@easystreet.com>

Tom Lee wrote:
> 
> JEdit is fantastic.
> 

I  found it very good, too.  I was using it for a large project
in Python about 6 mos back, and despite the sluggish response on
my 200 MHz machine, I had it open on my desktop continuously for
a couple of weeks, with dozens of files open. But then it gave me
a bad crash -- I don't recall exactly what -- maybe a BSOD or a
JVM crash.  That's not the kind of thing I enjoy, so I haven't
used it since.  

Anyone else have trouble like that with jEdit?


Al



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 13:09:49 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:09:49 +0300
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <mailman.1064411556.18402.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hpj3nvcp65ikm7dvjhhm3rs191ffidt3rp@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:52:45 -0400, rumours say that Fran?ois Pinard
<pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> might have written:

>> This will yield a false positive and potential damage if the OS has
>> spawned another process with the same pid, and running under your uid,
>> as the task you wanted to supervise.
>
>Granted in theory, yet this does not seem to be considered a real
>problem in practice.  To generate another process with the same pid, the
>system would need to generate so many intermediate processes that the
>process counter would overflow and come back to its current value.  The
>`kill(pid, 0)' trick is still the way people seem to do it.
>
>Do you know anything reasonably simple, safer, and that does the job?

Not that simple: a semaphore.
Not that safe: the existence of a semaphore file.

kill(pid,0) is ok; but a pipe and select would be useful too, safe and
relatively simple (for old Unix programmers at least :).
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Mon Sep  8 00:19:11 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 04:19:11 GMT
Subject: Ternery operator
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3rT6b.553$HQ7.398@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>

Wow! bang on topic. Thanks!

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F5B6404.BD1A9709 at engcorp.com...
> Andrew Chalk wrote:
> >
> > Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?
>
> See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=4.16&req=search





From joerg_k76 at ___gmx.at  Wed Sep 10 11:01:18 2003
From: joerg_k76 at ___gmx.at (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Keller?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:01:18 +0200
Subject: passing object via REQUEST-object
Message-ID: <bjnec0$70a$1@online.de>

hi

this is a Zope-related python problem. I hope, this is not too OT!

I use a html-form that calls a python script as it's action. The form 
contains
<input type="hidden" value="<dtml-var "my_folder_object">" name="path">

In the script I can do stuff like

my_path=context.REQUEST.form['path']
print my_path

which returns - as expected - 'folder instance at xxxxxx'


But when I try
print my_path.id

I get an AttributeError 'id'

Any hints?
Regards
J?rg





From llothar at web.de  Fri Sep 19 09:41:18 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 06:41:18 -0700
Subject: Python ISPs
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com> <bkd551$f0b2$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309190541.691b842d@posting.google.com>

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in message news:<bkd551$f0b2$1 at ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> "Paradox" <JoeyTaj at netzero.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef at posting.google.com...
> > Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
> > seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
> > this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
> > leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
> > solution.
> 
> You could go for one of those virtual servers all for yourself...
> 

Most (all !?) of this virtual servers are the worst i've ever seen.

Putting 100 customers on a 1 GB 2x2 GHz maschine is not a good thing
if everyone must install there own MySQL,Apache etc.



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 12:44:07 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 17:44:07 +0100
Subject: Where to post useful code
References: <2e1f6497.0309040646.3dcce9fb@posting.google.com> <3f575667@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <87d6egijvs.fsf@pobox.com>

djw <donald.welch.nospam at hp.com> writes:

> RichB wrote:
> > I've written a few scripts that might be very useful to small groups
> > of people (i.e. extracting time stamps from pictures taken with Sony
[...]
> http://www.uselesspython.com/

The other place is the ActiveState Python Cookbook.


John



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 10 11:35:47 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:35:47 -0500
Subject: Redesign of Python site 
In-Reply-To: <200309100540.h8A5epgD030889@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3F5EB3C1.6020107@teksavvy.com>
        <200309100540.h8A5epgD030889@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <16223.17619.543739.675680@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> From the most recent stats, the top 20 entry pages:

    Anthony>       Hits            Visits          URL
    Anthony> 1     252455  3.60%   164578  44.76%  /
    Anthony> 2     169489  2.42%   20381   5.54%   /pypi
    Anthony> 3     66001   0.94%   7997    2.18%   /2.3/
    Anthony> 4     47542   0.68%   7664    2.08%   /doc/
    Anthony> 5     25401   0.36%   7049    1.92%   /doc/current/tut/tut.html
    Anthony> 6     39856   0.57%   5825    1.58%   /download/
    ...

It's not too surprising that the home page is the most common entry point.
It's probably the most widely advertised Python URL.  I think the top URLs
list is more telling:

        hits                    URL
    1   2375287 33.91%          Documentation
    2    423653  6.05%          CGI Scripts
    3    257043  3.67%          Python News (RDF)
    4    252455  3.60%          /
    5    177496  2.53%          PyPI
    ...

While "Documentation" covers a lot of URL ground, it still suggests that's
the most common use of the website by a long shot.

I think Fred Drake deserves a raise!

Skip




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Sep 11 11:32:10 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:32:10 +0200
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>        <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>        <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>        <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>        <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>        <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>        <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>        <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>        <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>        <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>        <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>        <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org>        <000b01c37824$c972de10$3a0ff10c@teaset> <mailman.1063290822.30564.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjq4hq$3or$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Why is this on c.l.py anyway?

Wasn't 'gun' just an allegory for using Perl?

Daniel






From jakle1 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 27 20:55:30 2003
From: jakle1 at hotmail.com (News)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 00:55:30 GMT
Subject: Tutor
Message-ID: <6kqdb.146$Vb3.97520@news1.news.adelphia.net>

Hello. I've just started learning Python a few weeks ago. I'm using the free
"How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python". I'm half-way
through chapter 5 and I've been stumbling on a few things. I've been
teaching myself so far. I was wondering if anyone out there would be able to
help me along with this. Maybe help explain some things and give me ideas
for practice programs that go along with what I'm learning. And if you can't
help directly, maybe someone out there can point me towards somewhere that I
can get help. ok, I've talked enough. Thank you all in advance.





From mal at lemburg.com  Wed Sep 17 14:01:58 2003
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:01:58 +0200
Subject: [egenix-users] mx.DateTime bogus warning: "float where int	expected"
In-Reply-To: <3F68930A.CD2E4C63@noaa.gov>
References: <33436.199.169.240.132.1063814659.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net> <3F68930A.CD2E4C63@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <3F68A196.6010907@lemburg.com>

Jim Vickroy wrote:
> I do not have an explanation, but the statement:
> 
>         dt = self.firstdate + self.mm * int(i)
> 
> appears to be the source of this warning.  The warning only appears the first
> time the statement is executed; thereafter, no warning is issued.

Right, that's a Python feature.

The cause of the problem seems to be that DateTime() constructor
expects integers as argument and that the code in RelativeDateTime
can generate floats as a result of refitting the values into proper
ranges.

Try adding this snippet in DateTime.py before line 585:

             # Refit into proper ranges:
             if month < 1 or month > 12:
                 month = month - 1
                 yeardelta, monthdelta = divmod(month, 12)
                 year = year + yeardelta
                 month = monthdelta + 1

             # Make sure we have integers
             year = int(year)
             month = int(month)
             day = int(day)

             if self.weekday is None:
                 return DateTime(year, month, 1) + \
                        DateTimeDelta(day-1,hour,minute,second)

> python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi-
>>
>>I'm getting a "DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float"
>>warning with mx.DateTime and I can't figure out why.  Can anyone help me
>>out?
>>
>>This code:
>>
>>import mx.DateTime
>>
>>class xLabeller:
>>    def __init__(self, firstdate,fmt='%B, %Y'):
>>        self.firstdate = firstdate
>>        self.fmt = fmt
>>        self.mm = mx.DateTime.RelativeDateTime(months=1)
>>    def __call__(self, i):
>>        dt = self.firstdate + self.mm * int(i)
>>        return dt.Format(self.fmt)
>>
>>nov99 = mx.DateTime.Date(int(1999), int(11))
>>
>>xl = xLabeller(nov99)
>>print "xl2:"
>>print xl(int(3))
>>
>>Produces this warning:
>>
>>
>>>>>================================ RESTART ===========
>>>>>
>>
>>xl2:
>>C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\mx\DateTime\DateTime.py:585:
>>DeprecationWarning: integer argument expected, got float
>>  return DateTime(year, month, 1) + \
>>February, 2000
>>
>>What is the story?  I've wrapped every number in my program with int().  I
>>can't figure out what's triggering the warning.
>>
>>And, even stranger, the whole thing works fine at the python shell:
>>
>>
>>>>>import mx.DateTime
>>>>>mm = mx.DateTime.RelativeDateTime(months=1)
>>>>>nov99
>>
>><DateTime object for '1999-11-01 00:00:00.00' at 98dc20>
>>
>>>>>dt = nov99 + mm * 3
>>>>>dt.Format('%b, %y')
>>
>>'Feb, 00'
>>
>>What am I doing wrong?
>>
>>Thanks for the help.
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________
>>eGenix.com User Mailing List                     http://www.egenix.com/
>>http://lists.egenix.com/mailman/listinfo/egenix-users
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> eGenix.com User Mailing List                     http://www.egenix.com/
> http://lists.egenix.com/mailman/listinfo/egenix-users

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Software directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 17 2003)
 >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ...         http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! ::::





From mike at bindkey.com  Thu Sep  4 20:59:42 2003
From: mike at bindkey.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 17:59:42 -0700
Subject: sed with python
References: <mailman.1062005449.16168.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.08.28.11.30.17.760815@cox.net>
Message-ID: <9e45094b.0309041659.2ceb0f2a@posting.google.com>

"David Raleigh Arnold" <darnold4 at cox.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.08.28.11.30.17.760815 at cox.net>...
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:26:36 +0200, U. N. Owen wrote:
> 
> > 
> > David Raleigh Arnold enlightened us with:
> >> How do I use python as a wrapper for sed and/or gawk scripts?
> > 
> > You don't. Python can do anything sed and awk can, and much, much more.
> 
> Is there an equivalent to "tac" already written as a
> function in python?  

It's trivial easy in latest (2.3) Python.
If your filesize is relatively small and you don't use fancy options, than:

import sys
for name in sys.argv[1:]:
  inpfile = name=='-' and sys.stdin or file(name)
  lines=inpfile.readlines()
  sys.stdout.writelines(lines[::-1])

HTH,
Mike



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Fri Sep 19 20:05:51 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:05:51 +0100
Subject: whitespace
References: <pan.2003.09.19.23.35.54.334022@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <216nmv893913qvp7bssvhia98pebt5e2p2@4ax.com>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:35:54 -0400, "RR" <rr84 at cornell.edu> wrote:

>Is there an easy way in python to remove whitespace from a string?

>From the ends or all of it?

>From the ends, 
	" hello ".strip()
gives "hello"

There are lstrip and rstrip if you only want to strip from one end.

To get rid of all whitespace I'd probably do:

	import string
	string.join("  hello   there   world   ".split(), "")

which gives
	'hellothereworld'

Though there may be an easier way.







From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep 29 20:48:56 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 00:48:56 GMT
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <mailman.1064868706.13330.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blajto$i2b$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:47:07 -0400, Rob Hunter <rob at cs.brown.edu> wrote:

>
>On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 04:41 PM, Gerrit Holl wrote:
>
>> Rob Hunter wrote:
>>> On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 10:20 AM, Gerrit Holl wrote:
>>>> Rob Hunter wrote:
>>>>> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why do you want to do so?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am writing an interpreter, and my parser has to decide if an
>>> expression is a number or not.
>>
>> So you actually have a string...
>>
>> Maybe you could do something like this:
>>
>> if expr.strip("0123456789.e") == "": print "May be a number!"
>> if expr.strip("0123456789") == "": print "Surely a number!"
>>
>> Gerrit.
>>
>
>I don't like that solution for this particular project because, as you 
>say yourself, if it says yes to the second question, it only *may* be a 
>number.  I want to know for sure.  I think the type or instance checks 
>as the other posters mentioned are going to be fine for me.
I guess you'll have to eval the string before type checking the result then,
unless you are already tokenizing your input using the python tokenizer.
Then you could check what it thinks, e.g., (of course you don't need all
this fluff to do a check on a token t -- you don't have to retrieve the
token name from token either, to check whether it is a number, e.g.,

 >>> import tokenize, token, StringIO
 >>> s = '123'
 >>> t = tokenize.generate_tokens(StringIO.StringIO(s).readline).next()
 >>> t
 (2, '123', (1, 0), (1, 3), '123')
 >>> t[0]==tokenize.NUMBER
 True

So you might want to look into letting python's tokenizer module do that part
for your language, unless you have something pretty different...
(obviously StringIO.StringIO(s).readline would be file('yoursource').readline
and you would make more than one call to next ;-)


====< isnumtok.py >===========================================
# isnumtok.py -- check whether string is numeric token as tokenizer sees it 
import tokenize, token, StringIO
def isnumtok(s):
    tnt = [(token.tok_name[t[0]],t[1]) for t in
             tokenize.generate_tokens(StringIO.StringIO(s).readline)]
    toknam, tokval = tnt.pop(0)
    if toknam=='NUMBER' and tokval==s:
        return True, ('"%s" is a number' % tokval)
    elif toknam=='NUMBER':
        return False, ('"%s" leads with the number "%s" but as a whole is not a number'%
                            (s,tokval))
    else:
        return False, ('"%s" is not a number, but leads with the %s "%s"'%
                            (s, toknam, tokval))
    
if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    for arg in sys.argv[1:]: print '%6s: %s' % isnumtok(arg)
==============================================================
Some tests:

[17:53] C:\pywk\clp>isnumtok.py  123 12.34 12.34e10 12.34e-10 123.456**-10 2.3j 2.3x xx +1
  True: "123" is a number
  True: "12.34" is a number
  True: "12.34e10" is a number
  True: "12.34e-10" is a number
 False: "123.456**-10" leads with the number "123.456" but as a whole is not a number
  True: "2.3j" is a number
 False: "2.3x" leads with the number "2.3" but as a whole is not a number
 False: "xx" is not a number, but leads with the NAME "xx"
 False: "+1" is not a number, but leads with the OP "+"

It's not really too clear what the context for your checking is. Perhaps
you are analyzing expressions and bindings and trying to infer types for
bindings of symbols that are NAME token in the source, but bound to objects
that are NUMBER token literals in the source, etc.?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 06:36:01 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:36:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Multithreading and locking
References: <bkbv5l$kgl$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <Xns93FA744C65C2Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Ivan Voras" <ivoras at fer.hr> wrote in news:bkbv5l$kgl$1 at bagan.srce.hr:

> 
> Is it true what I heard (as a "rumour" of sorts), that in multithreaded
> Python programs global variables are already automagically protected by
> mutexes? Can someone clarify on that?
> 
The Python interpreter holds a global mutex which is released by some 
methods that call the OS, and is also released sometimes between bytecode 
instructions.

The effect of this is that any operation that takes a single bytecode 
instruction, and which does not call the OS, cannot be interrupted by 
another Python thread. It is left to the user to work out when this means a 
multithreaded operation will be safe.

For example:

    x.extend(y)

If x is a list, then this is safe in a multithreaded environment. If x is a 
user defined class and the extend method is coded in Python, then this 
probably isn't safe.

   x += y

If x and y are lists, this appears superficially to be the same as the 
first example, however this code compiles to two bytecode instructions (an 
inplace add and a store), so it could be interrupted with unfortunate 
consequences.

The bottom line is that with care you can use a list for multi-threaded 
queue operations, but with a Queue class already there and waiting it isn't 
usually worth the risk.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi  Fri Sep 26 12:30:06 2003
From: ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 19:30:06 +0300
Subject: PyCon Announcement: Mitch Kapor is opening keynote speaker
References: <mailman.1064535938.29114.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <du765jf7bsh.fsf@amadeus.cc.tut.fi>

PyCon Chair <pycon at python.org> writes:

> and as a co-founder and the first chairman of the San Francisco-based
> Electronic Freedom Foundation, and has been an active entrepreneur in

It's Electronic *Frontier* Foundation, I think.

-- 
Ville Vainio   http://www.students.tut.fi/~vainio24



From randito at randito.com  Thu Sep 11 17:57:55 2003
From: randito at randito.com (Randy)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 14:57:55 -0700
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
Message-ID: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com>

Flash Remoting is a way for Flash applications to make "native" method
calls in Action Script to a server side program, using the AMF binary
format.

Flash has commercial versions of a Flash Remoting servers.  There are
open-source alternatives for php, java, and perl.  But alas, no
Python.

Does anyone have any interest in a project like this?  It would be
port for the most part; the AMF format is already well known.  In
addition, there is a lot of similarities between ActionScript objects
and native Python objects; porting between the two data types would
not be difficult.

Here are some links for info.

http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashremoting/

http://www.simonf.com/flap/ (perl)

http://www.openamf.org/ (java)

http://www.amfphp.org/ (php)

http://www.actionscript.com/archives/00000485.html (discussion about
python flash remoting)



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Sep 20 11:11:09 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:11:09 -0400
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it> <ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <vmorgph6n3lg12@news.supernews.com>

"Phil Weldon" <pweldon at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773 at newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> It's a worm.  Worm.Automat.AGH.  This is going to be a bad one.  The worm
> installs, among other things, an SMPT engine, searches an infected system
> for email address, and sends two types of e-mail:  the first is HTML and
is
> a fake "security patch" supposedly from Microsoft.  It looks very
official,
> but the attachment, 104 KBytes long, is infectious.  Norton Antivirus
> definitions only began to identify it with the 18SEP03 manual definition
> update.  The worm also posts to usenet newsgroups.  The other type of
e-mail
> is a fake notification of undeliverable e-mail.  This one is a real bear.
> There seem to be hundreds variations in the body content and thousands of
> variations in the header.  The infectious package is also about 104
KBytes.
> I'm getting nearly 100 of the two types per hour.  Norton Antivirus does
not
> detect the worm in usnet posts read by Outlook Express Newsreader or
Outlook
> Newsreader.  Only when you attempt to open the attachment or save the
> attachment to disk will Norton identify it.  Norton will NOT detect the
> virus in the newsgroup posts folder NOR will it detect the newsgroup
folder
> in a full system scan.  It will not remove the infected file from the
> newsgroup folder, but it will prevent execution of the vermal payload.
>
> Microsoft Outlook with the SP3 security update when used as your e-mail
> reader protects against infection.  Prior to 18SEP03 Norton did not.
>
> The worm is also retrieving additional variations, so you can expect the
> payload size to begin changing soon.  The HTML message is easy to
identify;
> it is always the same (so far), and includes the phrase 'Run attached
file'.
> The bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' variations have no commonality but the
> payload attachment (that purports to be your bounced e-mail.)  This will
> likley change soon.
>
> My guess is that the internet will not open on Monday.

So far, I have seen no copies of the worm on usenet. This may be
the result of my paying $$$ to a good usenet provider (Supernews.)
Unfortunately, my e-mail provider got the stupid idea that "delete"
meant "save a complete copy for 14 days just in case you want
to see it." Most of the stuff is going into two mailboxes that I need
to clean out manually every two or three hours (they're not my inbox,
so the POP3 script won't do it.)

It looks like two worms that just happened to hit at one time,
doesn't it?

John Roth






From me at privacy.net  Wed Sep 17 19:51:28 2003
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 19:51:28 -0400
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <m2llsn55z3.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:02:40 -0400,
hokieghal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm trying to do this:

> ------------------------------
> a="192."
> b="168."
> c="1."
> r = range(256)
> for r in r:
> 	print a + b + c + r
> ------------------------------

> But, I get this error: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects. So, I
> need to convert the ints in the range to strs, but I do not know how to
> do that. Could someone help me? Ultimately, I want to print out
> something like this to a text file:

> 192.168.1.0
> 192.168.1.1
> 192.168.1.2
> ...
> 192.168.1.255

Try any or all of these:

    print a + b + c + str( r )

    print a + b + c + "%d" % r

    print a + b + c + "%s" % r

    print "%s%s%s%d" % (a, b, c, r)

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli



From rummanddan_nospam at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  1 08:39:06 2003
From: rummanddan_nospam at hotmail.com (Dan Thrue)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 14:39:06 +0200
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <3f530ea6$0$32489$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk> <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162> <vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f533f3d$0$32467$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz at 62.243.74.162>,
> Larz  <lp at your-pants-coder.dk> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> 
>>Dan and I are long time php programmers. One thing that is superb about 
>>php, is it's online documentation that everyone in the community can 
>>contribute to (not the actual documentation, just comments with 
>>examples).
>>
>>Every since I first started using python, I've truly missed a 
>>documentation source similar to that of PHP's. So Dan and I have started 
>>our little project to make a documentation site in the spirit of that 
>>documentation.
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> PHP's documentation has indeed been a great success as a 
> collaborative adventure.
> 
> Python already has a structure--and much content!--for 
> comparable collaboration in <URL: http://
> www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/ >.  Moreover, as several
> follow-ups have explained, Python developers have differ-
> ent work practices than PHPers, and a different relation
> to documentation.  In particular, it's hard to overempha-
> size how much working Python programmers depend on 
> interactive introspection:  use of the interpreter's
> built-in help, pydoc, and related facilities to discover
> and confirm details that, in PHPonia, are regarded as 
> matters for online documentation.

Hi Cameron,

Thank for your feedback, i personally uses pydoc when im in need of 
documentation, but sometimes i have been in such situations where code 
snippets was necessary for me. The background for this project is to 
gain a great database public of snippets hooked in a structure that is 
easily for all to use, novice as well as expert.

Maybe its the way i think, but i understand and learn a lot faster 
(better?) when the the theory is put into practice.

At my daily work im a .net programmer, and the documentation im using 
there is also "practice based". Im not a theoretic person, and I think 
there is a lot like myself out there :)

Best Regards
Dan




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 08:35:34 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:35:34 +0100
Subject: extension call backs and the GIL
References: <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <bl93hp$mgc$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <OWWCyJAWcCe$EwUM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <bl93hp$mgc$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
writes
>In article <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
>Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>I'm trying to better my understanding of multithreading. I believe a
>>thread that calls an extension must have the GIL. What happens if the
>>extension then calls back into Python? Can a function or method somehow
>>'belong' to a different thread? My understanding was that things should
>>be OK provided the extension code doesn't mess with the GIL (which it
>>doesn't).
>
>You need to reacquire the GIL prior to making the callback.
So does calling an extension release the GIL? I believed the opposite
for some reason.
-- 
Robin Becker



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Sat Sep 20 17:39:49 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:39:49 -0700
Subject: spam killing with poplib
References: <pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409@webone.com.au> <S02bb.43098$NM1.7449@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <BPpREWA$ULb$Ewt$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bkihd9$1mjm8$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Robin Becker wrote:

[snip]
>>Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com
>>
>>"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message
>>news:pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409 at webone.com.au...
>>>
>>> This was so easy :)
>>>
>>> Simon Burton.
> .... you're right, I had to use patterns like

Almost all the spam I'm receiving has an attachment whose file
type is one of .exe, .bat, .com, .scr, .pif, and a few others.  Is
there a way for your Python script to check for that?  How do you
do that in Python.  

I'm guessing that you are not in the mood for receiving executable
files right now.

Here is a strange thing: I'm using procmail and junkfilter to
dispose of these.  I looked at procmail's log, and noticed that 
in many cases (but not all) I seem to be receiving exactly 2 spam
emails from each From address. I suppose this worm does not want
me to think I can do something so simple as send a request to one
infected machine asking it to clean itself up.

Dave

[snip]

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Sep 24 17:43:41 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:43:41 -0700
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <mailman.1064411556.18402.python-list@python.org> <bksu23$rp0$1@news.island.liu.se>
Message-ID: <donn-15CB4E.14434124092003@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <bksu23$rp0$1 at news.island.liu.se>,
 Thomas Bellman <bellman at lysator.liu.se> wrote:

...
> There it least one Unix that reuse process ids immediately when
> they are free.  A vague memory says that it is AIX that does
> this, but I'm not sure; it could be some of the BSD dialects too.

Not AIX 4 or 5, and no BSD I've seen- cursory inspection suggests
it is not the case with FreeBSD 5.1 nor MacOS X 10.2.6.

> However, in this very case, *that* isn't a problem.  The process
> id won't be free to reuse until the parent has called wait(2) to
> reap its child.  On the other hand, that means that kill(pid, 0)
> won't signal an error even after the child has died; the zombie
> is still there...

Good points.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Sun Sep  7 07:15:27 2003
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 11:15:27 -0000
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <mailman.1062925871.16636.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnblm4qf.pfj.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2003-09-07, Chad Netzer <cnetzer at sonic.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-09-06 at 00:43, Steve Lamb wrote:
>>     If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
>> if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?

> You still haven't responded to the rebuttals of this statement.  On the
> face of it, it appears made up.  Can you explain?

    Because it was worded incorrectly and is, in essence, as worded,
indefensible.  Quite frankly I don't have the time or patience to
discuss the issue further in a PYTHON newsgroup.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------



From srijit at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 16 05:01:18 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 02:01:18 -0700
Subject: Duck Typing
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com>

Hello All,
I have been seeing this term "duck typing" for quite sometime now. It
will be nice if one of us can give an example in Python demonstrating
duck typing and/or link to some Python references.

Regards,
Srijit



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 17 03:24:40 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:24:40 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org> <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net> <potemv8qlj13sssumpjtidrm0gt5vmubbi@4ax.com> <0vQ9b.23$1l5.14@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <t22gmvcjnj30ctbjdsdvk5avhdsvlqh8kg@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:29:36 +0300, rumours say that Harri Pesonen
<fuerte at sci.fi> might have written:

[snip discussion so far because I want to focus on this sentence]
>Multiple threads are more efficient, they use less system resources, and 
>they allow fast shared memory access (in a way or another).

"efficient": I asked you in another part of this thread: please define
efficient.

"resources": A program that forks itself on current operating systems
does not consume *much* more memory than a multithreaded one; code is
shared, many data pages won't be written so they will remain common.
Whatever I may say, have you got numbers from your personal experience?

"fast memory access": yes, accessing directly the data memory of the
same process is faster than going through the shmem calls first, but how
much do you believe this overhead is?  Or do you believe that accessing
mapped shared memory is slower than accessing the data memory of the
process?

The whole point is that you seem to be based on the words of others
about "thread efficiency", without having experience of your own against
other possible solutions.  Do you have example applications you want to
build?  Did you post a description of the problems you encountered so
that the people in c.l.py can help you?
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From will_woods2 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep  2 13:00:16 2003
From: will_woods2 at yahoo.co.uk (Will Woods)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 10:00:16 -0700
Subject: Tkinter and readline key bindings
Message-ID: <b9532103.0309020900.4ae8999f@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have installed readline on win32, and it works fine until I do:

from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()

at which point the cursor keys stop working, and print strange characters.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Will



From Huzzah! at Huzzah.com  Wed Sep 17 21:06:07 2003
From: Huzzah! at Huzzah.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:06:07 GMT
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

Lothar Scholz wrote in article
<6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c at posting.google.com>:

> i hope that there support for the program is better then the support
> for their website. Everything in the last weeks doesn't look very
> promising.

TheKompany.com is somewhat notorious for not updating their website as they
update the apps.  They are heavily involved in embedded app development as
well as much larger projects like BlackAdder, Kobol, and Aethera to name
just a few.  I guess sometimes updating the website falls through the
cracks.  I would go by what the person who actually tried the demo said.


-- 
Todd Stephens
ICQ# 3150790
"A witty saying proves nothing."
                -Voltaire



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Sep 23 16:25:13 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:25:13 -0500
Subject: Pygtk, widget refreshing
In-Reply-To: <uoexbi6st.fsf@r2d2.rfc1149.org> (Arne Schwabe's message of "23
 Sep 2003 22:33:22 +0200")
References: <uoexbi6st.fsf@r2d2.rfc1149.org>
Message-ID: <m2isnjgsly.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Arne" == Arne Schwabe <arne at rfc2549.org> writes:

    Arne> hi, I am using python and pygtk.  In my program I want to
    Arne> realize a status thing with a DrawingArea.  But my problem
    Arne> is that this area is not updated while my program is
    Arne> running.  Is there a way I can force pygtk to refresh to
    Arne> widgets?

Two good ways, one is to use a timer and the other an idle.  A timer
will call your function of choice every so many milliseconds, and an
idle func will do it whenever the gtk event loop is idle

For the timer

    def update_widget(*args):
       pass  # do something here

    gtk.timeout_add(250, update_widget)  # call update_widget every 250 ms

For the idle func, you can pass an arg that will be passed to your
idle func

   gtk.idle_add(update_widget) 


Here is how I update a status bar -- this may not be ideal, it's just
what I came up with when I confronted it the first time

Create the status bar

    self.statbar = gtk.Statusbar()
    self.statbar.show()
    self.statbarCID = self.statbar.get_context_id('my stat bar')
    self.vbox.pack_end(self.statbar)
    self.timeoutId  = gtk.timeout_add(5000,self.update_status_bar)

where update_status_bar looks like

    def update_status_bar(self, msg=None):
        if msg is None:
            # generate default message
            
        try: self.statbarCID, self.statbarMID
        except AttributeError: pass
        else: self.statbar.remove(self.statbarCID, self.statbarMID)
            
        self.statbarMID = self.statbar.push(self.statbarCID, msg)
        return gtk.TRUE

and then later when the dialog is destroyed

    gtk.timeout_remove(self.timeoutId)

Hope this helps,
John Hunter    

        





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 30 14:42:52 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:42:52 -0500
Subject: import  _XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <XGieb.29792$Of2.1478090@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <XGieb.29792$Of2.1478090@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <16249.52908.578899.220845@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Robert> When a Python program declares import _XXXX.  What form is XXXX
    Robert> when the underbar is included (_XXX)?

There's no special form.  The leading underscore is there to alert people
they should not normally import that module directly.  For example, people
should import bsddb, not _bsddb.  Same goes for (the third part modules)
MySQLdb and _mysql.  In both cases, the former builds on the latter.

Skip





From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 29 13:13:17 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:13:17 +0200
Subject: Python os.popen in Linux
References: <yPYdb.369$2r2.112@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <bl9paa$108$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Sami Viitanen wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I was using os.popen function to get CVS command output to string from
> script..
> 
> Same commands worked well with Windows, but Linux seems to have problem
> with those. Whole CVS commands seem to froze or given commands aren't
> executed right
> at all. I had to replace os.popen commands with os.system. os.system
> commands just
> print additional information to screen that is not necessary at all.
> 
> Any ideas what may cause this ?

I think os.system() is the way to go. You should *not* suppress any error
messages, but if you must, simply redirect to /dev/null. However, it would
be worth the effort to search for some existing Python/CVS interface that
performs some real error handling.

<untested>
def sfnFreezeFiles(sModFiles):
    lModFiles = sModFiles.split()
    sCurrentDir = os.getcwd()
    try:
        for path in lModFiles:
            sDir, sModFile = os.path.split(path)
            ColorPrint.fnPrintExecute('Freezing: %s %s' % (sDir, sModFile))
            os.chdir(sDir)
            os.system('cvs update -A %s 2>/dev/null' % sModFile)
            os.system('cvs ci %s 2>/dev/null' % sModFile)
    finally:
        os.chdir(sCurrentDir)
    return len(lModFiles)
</untested>

Off topic: I suppose you were exposed to VB too long :-) 
I've taken time to clean up your function a bit, your comment style is
obscuring the code rather than helping the reader.

Peter






From jack at performancedrivers.com  Wed Sep 10 15:15:27 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:15:27 -0400
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <200309100215.38583.kosh@aesaeion.com>; from kosh@aesaeion.com on Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 02:15:38AM -0600
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <3F5ECDE2.40206@mxm.dk> <3F5ECEF7.9080409@mxm.dk> <200309100215.38583.kosh@aesaeion.com>
Message-ID: <20030910151527.C7418@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 02:15:38AM -0600, kosh wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 September 2003 01:12 am, Max M wrote:
> > Max M wrote:
> > > import class1, class2, class3
> > >
> > > def Factory(class_type):
> > >     if class_type='class1':
> > >         return class1()
> > >     elif class_type='class2':
> > >         return class2()
> > >     elif class_type='class2':
> > >         return class3()
> > >
> 
> use
> 
> def Factory(class_type):
>   factory = {
>     'class1':class1,
>     'class2':class2,
>     'class3':class3}
>   try:
>     return factory[class_type]()
>   except KeyError:
>     pass 
> 

metaclasses are your friend, here is one I use frequently for factoires.

class Register(type):
  """A tiny metaclass to help classes register themselves automagically"""

  def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
    if ('register' in dict): # initial dummy class
      setattr(cls, 'register', staticmethod(dict['register']))
    elif (getattr(cls, 'DO_NOT_REGISTER', 0)):
      # we don't want to register this non-concrete class
      delattr(cls, 'DO_NOT_REGISTER')
    elif (object not in bases):
      cls.register(name, cls)
    return

class Widget(object):
  __metaclass__ = Register
  all = {}
  def register(name, cls):
    Widget.all[name] = cls

  def factory(name):
    return Widget.all[name]
  factory = staticmethod(factory) # just use this class like a namespace

class C1(Widget): pass
class C2(Widget): pass
class C3(Widget): pass

# instantiate a C3 by name
c3_instance = Widget.factory('C3')()

Every class that inherits Widget and doesn't have a DO_NOT_REGISTER attribute 
will put it's name:class into the Widget.all dictionary.

I typically use a short hierarchy to break up the code a bit

class WidgetFacory(object):
  """this class only has static factory methods"""
  __metaclass__ = Register
  all = {}
  # register() and factory() as above

class Widget(WidgetFactory): # we inherit 'WidgetFactory' to get the metaclass
  """This class is the base functionality of Widget classes,
     This is a virtual base class for Widgets that can't be instatiated
     by the WidgetFactory interface"""
  DO_NOT_REGISTER = 1 # tell the factory to forget we exist

  def __init__(self, *args, **opts):
    # your code here

# now define the classes that can be instantiated from the WidgetFactory
class Mallet(Widget): pass
class Hoop(Widget): pass
class Ball(Widget): pass


hmm, the post is about to get longer.
If you repeat the above pattern enough, write a func to do all the above
for you, so your code might look like

class Widget(object): pass # your real definition of the base Widget class

# setup the factory, and rebind the name Widget to a class that inherits it
(WidgetFactory, Widget) = make_factory(Widget)

I use a slightly different technique in my unit tests, cut-n-pasted here
it defines the class-tracker using Register and returns the base object.
It also defines a main() method for the test suite.  My test-coverage
class is in here too, but that is extra.  It just defines a TestCase
that checks for test coverage versus implemented tests.

Last things first, here is how it is used
""" t_libUtil.py  -  test 'libUtil' module """
import test # defined below
import libUtil

(Test, main) = test.setup(libUtil)

class SimpleSum(Test):
  we_test = [libUtil.simple_sum]
  def test_sum(self):
    f = libUtil.simple_sum
    x = [0,0]
    self.assertEqual([0,3], f(x,[1,3]) or x)

if (__name__ == '__main__'):
  main()


# module 'test.py'
import unittest

class Register(type):
  """A tiny metaclass that keeps track of all classess"""
  def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
    if ('register' in dict): # initial dummy class
      setattr(cls, 'register', staticmethod(dict['register']))
    elif (object not in bases):
      cls.register(name, cls)
    return

def setup(module):
  class Test(unittest.TestCase, object): # TestCase is an old-style class
    __metaclass__ = Register
    alltests = [] # all Test classes
    allfuncs = [] # list of all the functions they test

    def register(name, cls):
      Test.alltests.append(cls)
      Test.allfuncs += cls.we_test

  class TestCoverage(Test):
    """make sure we have tests for all the funcs and classes in the module"""
    we_test = []
    def test_coverage(self):
      # find all functions and classes in the module
      need = []
      for (name, val) in module.__dict__.items():
        if (callable(val)):
          need.append(val)
        try:
          if (val.__class__.__name__ == name): # this finds classes defined in the module
            need.append(val)
        except: pass

      for (ob) in need:
        good = ob in Test.allfuncs
        if (not good):
          raise self.failureException("No Test coverage: %s" % (str(ob)))

  def main():
    suite = unittest.TestSuite()     
    test_classes = Test.alltests
    for cls in test_classes:
      suite.addTest(unittest.makeSuite(cls))
    result = unittest.TestResult()
    suite(result)
    msg = []
    if (result.errors):
      msg.append('Failure')
    if (result.errors):
      msg.append('Error')
    print "%s: %d %s" % (module.__name__, result.testsRun, " & ".join(msg) or 'Success')
    for (err) in result.errors:
      print "\n".join(map(str, err))
    for (failure) in result.failures:
      print "\n".join(map(str, failure))
    return
  
  return (Test, main)


In places like unittest where we already do heavy introspection
using metaclasses to do the introspecition is usually a big win.

long-posted-ly,
    
-jackdied




From ryan at ryanswift.com  Wed Sep  3 10:04:17 2003
From: ryan at ryanswift.com (Ryan Swift)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 07:04:17 -0700
Subject: Extracting TIFF from emails
Message-ID: <bc258e66.0309030604.1fdc0e8c@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm new to Python, so this may be an easy solution.  I'm having
trouble extracting TIFF files from incoming emails.  Actually, I think
the root of my problem is that I'm having trouble reading the email
header.  Does anyone have an easy solution?  Thanks in advance.



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 00:06:17 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 00:06:17 -0400
Subject: Anyone ever overridden a builtin by accident?
In-Reply-To: <c09b237b.0309061922.10d74b39@posting.google.com>
References: <c09b237b.0309061922.10d74b39@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <56qW/kKkX4mY092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|I had overridden the __builtin__ function by mistake.

I had a script or two that used 'dict' as a variable name... which was
fine, until Python 2.2.  Since then, I've used 'dct' for the same
purpose.  But possibly something old is still sitting around with the
problem.

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Wed Sep 10 04:43:45 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:43:45 +0100
Subject: Redesign of Python site 
In-Reply-To: <200309100540.h8A5epgD030889@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <003301c37777$a9220b20$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

>
>>From the most recent stats, the top 20 entry pages:
>
>      Hits            Visits          URL
>1     252455  3.60%   164578  44.76%  /
>2     169489  2.42%   20381   5.54%   /pypi
>3     66001   0.94%   7997    2.18%   /2.3/
>4     47542   0.68%   7664    2.08%   /doc/
>5     25401   0.36%   7049    1.92%   /doc/current/tut/tut.html
>6     39856   0.57%   5825    1.58%   /download/
>7     10903   0.16%   2826    0.77%   /cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>8     20848   0.30%   2678    0.73%   /doc/current/lib/lib.html
>9     10952   0.16%   2428    0.66%   /doc/Newbies.html
>10    8372    0.12%   2347    0.64%   /doc/Intros.html
>11    13328   0.19%   1971    0.54%   /doc/current/
>12    7992    0.11%   1616    0.44%   /2.3/highlights.html
>13    2537    0.04%   1490    0.41%   /~guido/
>14    67565   0.96%   1430    0.39%   /doc/current/icons/
>15    4802    0.07%   1324    0.36%   /doc/Comparisons.html
>16    22751   0.32%   1251    0.34%   /topics/learn/
>17    3631    0.05%   1199    0.33%   /doc/FAQ.html
>18    53884   0.77%   1198    0.33%   /cgi-bin/faqw.py
>19    7969    0.11%   1152    0.31%   /doc/current/tut/node7.html
>20    9290    0.13%   1144    0.31%   /doc/current/tut/node6.html

Although essential for working out a new information architecture /
navigational network for a site, stats can be a very misleading way of
working out what are the most used areas of the site. 

Problem #1 : A prominent, badly worded link will get many people
clicking through to it but a large number of these may not find what
they expect. This shows that logs record where people go and not where
people want to end up.

Solution #1: Take into account page visit duration, remove hits where
another unrelated menu item is clicked in a reasonable amount of time,
etc.

Problem #2: There is little record of people who haven't found what they
wanted, obviously an important sector to target. 

Solution #2: Look for people who have left the site without lingering on
any page for a significant amount of time. Trace back there paths and
try to work out why the links they have used 'could' be confusing.

Problem #3: People who know what they are after go straight there and
don't record significant numbers of hits. People who get lost or
confused record a large number of hits. This skews the results away from
your successes to your failures.

Solution #3: Look for short paths within the logs to indicate that
people have found what they want quickly, rank these separately from
other rankings.

There are a lot of other gotchas related to log analysis to bear in
mind. An example of one of these on the current site layout may be the
fact that the search engine sits on another domain so that when someone
searches they leave the site and come back in on a deep link. This
probably accounts for the high number of deep links recorded on the
entry pages, a lot of these results aren't in fact entry pages at all.
This could account for the high number of people leaving from the home
page.

Tim 









From grante at visi.com  Fri Sep  5 10:50:37 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 14:50:37 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <vlh7otscuo8gb1 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:

> Technically, it would be possible to make "self" a reserved
> word, and not have to put it in the method declaration.
> However, there are a lot of people who use something other than
> the word "self," so that would break existing code.

It would also make the language more complex and irregular.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Could I have a drug
                                  at               overdose?
                               visi.com            



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Sep 23 10:53:09 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:53:09 +0200
Subject: a little OT: how to handle this email list?
In-Reply-To: <51397.199.169.240.132.1064323325.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
References: <51397.199.169.240.132.1064323325.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <20030923145309.GA3957@nl.linux.org>

Matthew Wilson wrote:
> I subscribe to the python mailing list with an IMAP mailbox.  I use
> squirrelmail to check my mail.  This is a great list, but it is definitely
> high volume.  My python folder fills up with several hundred emails every
> day.  How do the rest of you handle all the traffic on this list?  Do you
> delete everything at the end of every day?
> 
> All insights are welcomed.

I use a python script :)
This python script is called by procmail, a mail filtering program (Linux).
The first argument is the file in which it should be redirected, the input
is the e-mail message. It reads the e-mail, checks the DATE header and
throws the e-mail into the mailbox for this week. Every week, I start a new
mailbox.

#!/usr/bin/env python

"""Appends email message from standard input to mailbox argv[1] in the correct date"""

import os
import sys
import email
import email.Utils
import time

MAILDIR = "/home/gerrit/email"

def getdestfromdate(d):
    timetuple = email.Utils.parsedate(d)
    print d, "=>", timetuple
    timetuple = time.localtime(time.mktime(timetuple))
    subfile = sys.argv[1]
    jaar = time.strftime("%Y", timetuple)
    week = time.strftime("%U", timetuple)
    dest = os.path.join(MAILDIR, jaar, week, subfile)
    return dest

def main():
    message = email.message_from_file(sys.stdin)
    dest = getdestfromdate(message["Date"])
    print "Appending to", dest
    if not os.path.exists(os.path.dirname(dest)):
        print "creating dir for", dest
        os.makedirs(os.path.dirname(dest))
    fp = open(dest, "a")
    fp.write(str(message))
    fp.close()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()

Note that this may not run with Python prior to 2.3.

Gerrit.

-- 
220. If he had opened a tumor with the operating knife, and put out his
eye, he shall pay half his value.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From duncan-news at grisby.org  Thu Sep  4 12:15:10 2003
From: duncan-news at grisby.org (Duncan Grisby)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:15:10 +0000
Subject: Arguments of function as out
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com> <wzoey20yy4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl> <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <6e951$3f57650e$51604868$15609@nf1.news-service.com>

In article <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1 at news.t-online.com>,
 Birgit Rahm <br_y at yahoo.de> wrote:

>I've already read this, but I hoped, there is a way to get these out
>parameters beside this.

Aside from all the help Alex has already given you, perhaps you should
have read the very next part of the specification, after the bit Piet
quoted. It says:

"""
Assuming the IDL definition

   interface I {
     oneway void stop();
     bool more_data();
     void get_data(out string name, out long age);
   };

a client could write

   names = {}
   while my_I.more_data():
       name,age = my_I.get_data()
       names[name] = age
   my_I.stop()
"""

I don't think it can get much clearer than that.

Cheers,

Duncan.

-- 
 -- Duncan Grisby         --
  -- duncan at grisby.org     --
   -- http://www.grisby.org --



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Thu Sep 18 09:13:29 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:13:29 GMT
Subject: Setting environment variables
In-Reply-To: <3F6959B3.6A19FF3B@alcyone.com>
References: <cscab.12804$g4.258706@news1.nokia.com> <3F6959B3.6A19FF3B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Ybiab.495979$Ho3.83465@sccrnsc03>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Sami Viitanen wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there any other way to set variables than os.putenv().
>>
>>Putenv doesn't actually put any values to actual system variables..
>>
>>I'm trying to set CVSEDITOR variable automatically from script
>>so that user wouldn't have to set that him/herself. CVS can't use
>>variable
>>set with putenv().
> 
> 
> Yep, and this is a feature, at least in Unix operating systems. 
> Subshells cannot directly affect the operating environment of parent
> shells, and shouldn't try.  (One can do such things indirectly, but they
> require the cooperation of the parent shell, such as sourcing the output
> of a program, which is not an uncommon approach to the problem.)  I
> don't know if there's any way for Windows applications to affect parent
> environments, but I doubt it.
> 

In [t]csh:

   alias cvsscript "setenv CVSEDITOR `python myscript.py`"
   cvsscript

or miscellaneous variants in other shells.  Of course, you can't use 
cvsscript from within another subshell, or it will only set the variable 
in that subshell.

David





From Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr  Fri Sep 26 12:43:43 2003
From: Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:43:43 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pygantt-0.9.3
Message-ID: <20030926164343.GQ28349@calvin>

Logilab has released pygantt-0.9.3

What's new?
-----------

This release fixes the way to find the PIL fonts. It also fixes a bug in
the resource filter (many thanks to Mitry Samersoff for providing a
patch)

About Pygantt
-------------

Pygantt is a project management tool, which can use XML files describing
tasks and resources and generate Gantt diagrams for the project. It can
use Logilab's constraint satisfaction solver to schedule the different
tasks. 

URLs
----

Homepage: http://www.logilab.org/projects/pygantt/
Download: ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/pygantt/pygantt-0.9.3.tar.gz

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 00:35:58 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 21:35:58 -0700
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309172035.23d1df4e@posting.google.com>

hokieghal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bkap6g$4o1$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>...
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to do this:
> 
> ------------------------------
> a="192."
> b="168."
> c="1."
> r = range(256)
> for r in r:
> 	print a + b + c + r
> ------------------------------
> 
> But, I get this error: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects. So, I 
> need to convert the ints in the range to strs, but I do not know how to 
> do that. Could someone help me? Ultimately, I want to print out 
> something like this to a text file:
> 
> 192.168.1.0
> 192.168.1.1
> 192.168.1.2
> ...
> 192.168.1.255
> 
> Thanks!!!!

for x in r :
    print a + b + c + str(x)


but why not use ints all the way along like this:

a = 192
b = 168
c = 1
for n in range(256) :
    print "%d.%d.%d.%d" % (a, b, c, n)

or simply don't use them at all:

for n in range(256) :
    print "192.168.1.%d" % n



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 15 12:04:48 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:04:48 -0400
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com>

"Paul Moore" <paul.moore at atosorigin.com> wrote in message
news:182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482 at posting.google.com...
> I was just writing some code which did date/time manipulations, and I
> found that the Python 2.3 datetime module does not supply a number of
> fairly basic functions. I understand the reasoning (the datetime
> module provides a set of datatypes, and doesn't attempt to get into
> the murky waters of date algorithms) but as these things can be quite
> tricky to get right, I was wondering if anyone has already implemented
> any date algorithms, or alternatively if I'd missed some easy way of
> doing what I'm after.
>
> My specific requirements were:
>
> 1. Get the last day of the month contatining a given date(time). I
> really was surprised to find this one missing, as it seems to me that
> the datetime module must know what the last day for each month is, so
> exposing it wouldn't have been hard.

I'm kind of surprised to see that it's missing, too.

> 2. Add a number of months to a date. This is messy, as there are
> options (what is one month after 31st Jan). The trouble is that the
> calculation, while simple, is tricky to get right (month is 1-based,
> so off-by-1 errors are easy to make, and divmod isn't as useful as
> you'd first think).

That's application dependent. If a bond, for example, has interest
payable on the 30th of the month, you probably want the 30th,
except in February you want the last day of the month. However,
the contract may specify something else. And in no case do you
want the date to suddenly change to the 28th because you went
through February.

> Other "nice to have" functions which I didn't need for this program,
> but which I have found useful in the past, are
>
> - Round a date(time) to a {year,month,day,quarter,week,...} Or
> truncate. Or (occasionally) chop to the next higher boundary
> (ceiling).
> - Calculate the number of {years,months,days,...} between two dates.
> (Which is more or less the equivalent of rounding a timedelta).
>
> These latter two aren't very well defined right now, because I have no
> immediate use case.

Most of these don't have well defined, globally useful use cases.
It's heavily application dependent what you want out of these.

> In the absence of anything else, I'll probably write a "date
> utilities" module for myself at some point. But I'd hate to be
> reinventing the wheel.

There's a very well regarded date module out there in the
Vaults of Parnassus. The name escapes me at the moment,
but a bit of spelunking through the Vaults will turn up several
date routines that may do what you want.

John Roth

>
> Paul.





From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 19 18:20:30 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:20:30 GMT
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
References: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com> <LIAab.7544$9G2.6227@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkemib$bjr$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <OiLab.21316$x21.11005@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Eric Brunel" <eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com> wrote in message news:bkemib$bjr$1 at news-reader2.wanadoo.fr...
> Sorry, but no you can't: the default is to open the file in text mode, and you
> can change it with a 'b', but 't' has no meaning at all. BTW, 'b' also has no
> meaning at all on all Unices: the so-called "binary" or "text" mode are the
> same, i.e. what is read is what is in the file. Windows needs it only because of
> its superfluous \r's at the end of each line.
> <...>
> HTH
> -- 
> - Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
> PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com


The idea was to tell the humans that it's text. It won't hurt neither Unix nor Windows.
I know that nobody cares, though.

M-a-S





From amonroejj at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 23 22:37:45 2003
From: amonroejj at yahoo.com (R. Alan Monroe)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 02:37:45 GMT
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
Message-ID: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com>

Subject says it all... what's the fastest way to get many thousands of 
records to the client?

I'm trying to sketch out a traditional 3 tier client-server system. 
Multiple clients would make requests to the server. The server should 
execute sql select commands against a server-side database, then 
return the results to the client.

I tried the standard xmlrpclib and SimpleXMLRPCServer tools that came 
with Python. I liked the simplicity, but it was about 30-35 times 
slower than executing the sql directly from the client...

I intend to write both client and server in Python, and my main goal 
in the first cut is speed. Suggestions?

Alan



From emile at fenx.com  Mon Sep 29 18:26:57 2003
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:26:57 -0700
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blabej$a842s$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in message
>
> Moving farther, even this gap structure is quite compressible.  Most
> gaps are quite a bit smaller than 65536, so the highbits are zeros.  In
> fact, I am pretty sure that almost all the gaps are less than 256.  So
> an immediate compression strategy (saving disk space, costing time to
> recreate the transparent structure) is to store gaps as 8-bit values,
> with a x00 byte escaping into a larger value (I guess in the next two
> bytes).

You can take this to 512 knowing that the gaps will always be an even
interval.

Emile





From ian_maurer at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 16:50:41 2003
From: ian_maurer at yahoo.com (Ian Maurer)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:50:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: needs help in how to translate &#8830;
In-Reply-To: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85FCEA27@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <20030917205041.65837.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>

This code accomplishes that goal... but it's not very reusable. At
a minimum you need to put the (non-print) steps in a function.

>>> text = "(('&#8830Hello World&#8830'),(''))"
>>> tupl = eval(text)
>>> print tupl
('&#8830Hello World&#8830', '')
>>> s = tupl[0]
>>> print s
&#8830Hello World&#8830
>>> final = s.replace("&#8830", '"')
>>> print final
"Hello World"
>>>

Good Luck!
Ian Maurer

--- "Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix)"
<Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com> wrote:
> As a newbie in coding in encoding I need some help from the guru
> here.
> When I get information from a user database (mySQL) I get text that
> looks like:
> 
> (('&#8830;Hello World&#8830;'),(''))
> 
> How can I create this info into a string that looks like:
> "Hello World"
> 
> Because what I know is that &#8830; stands for the character "
> 
> Must be veeeeerrrrryyyy simple, but how?
> 
> Thanks,
> Vincent
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Tue Sep 23 13:32:45 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:32:45 GMT
Subject: Executing a python script from an HTML link?
References: <tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <vn0tdkg96jlcc7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1t%bb.407$Q44.601209120@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks. I want to run the script on the server. The problem is that I don't
have an html page as an HREF. Viz:

<tr><A HREF="Fred.htm">Fred</A>
What replaces Fred.htm to invoke a server-side script?
Regards.


"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:vn0tdkg96jlcc7 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "Andrew Chalk" <achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote in message
> news:tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578 at newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> > Is this possible? In my CGI app. I display a web page with a link
> (anchor).
> > When the link is clicked I want to exectute a python script rather than
go
> > to an HTML page.
>
> Do you want to run the script on the server or the client? If you
> want to run it on the client, you can use Python instead of Javascript
> (or in addition to Javascript) in the web page. Look at the <script>
> tag for the language (I think that's the one - I haven't looked it up
> recently) attribute. Otherwise, just invoke Python the same way you would
> invoke any other executable, and use the script name as the
> first parameter.
>
> John Roth
>
> >
> > Many thanks.
> >
> >
>
>





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep 30 14:10:33 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:33 -0700
Subject: Inconsistent behavior of descriptors 
Message-ID: <1064945433.3f79c719c2dcf@mcherm.com>

Denis writes:
> I've noticed that the order of attribute lookup is inconsistent
> when descriptor is used.  property instance takes precedence of
> instance attributes:
   [...]
> But it doesn't when I use custom class of descriptor:
   [...]
> Subclasses of property behave like property itself:
   [...]
> Is it an undocumented feature or I have to submit a bug report?

Looks like a bug to me.

-- Michael Chermside




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 21 21:27:08 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 02:27:08 +0100
Subject: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?)
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <87y8wh50ca.fsf@pobox.com> <bkl3fe$fst$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <871xu9bok3.fsf@pobox.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> writes:

> John J. Lee wrote:
> 
> >>>locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ("no", None))
> > [...]
> >
> >>If this did work, then you can use the DSU pattern like so:
> > [...strxfrm...]
> > The advantage of which is that you don't have to mess with the
> > locale.
> 
> No, it doesn't.

It does set the locale, you mean?  So I guess there's no advantage
there at all?

[...]
> strxfrm requires that the locale is adjusted to the
> desired LC_COLLATE facet.
[...]


John



From hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de  Tue Sep 23 09:41:12 2003
From: hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 06:41:12 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <bkblav$u63$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309180950.30b44d89@posting.google.com> <jMmab.507800$uu5.85683@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <95b4b9ac.0309230541.32800875@posting.google.com>

> Only if all the sublists are of the same length, which is guaranteed for 
> a multi-dimensional array, but not for a list of lists.

This is a red herring.
 
> What do you expect a[;1] to return if a = [[], [1, 2, 3], [4], 5]?

Whatever error python returns if you ask, e.g., for (1 2 3)[4].

Hilde



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 21 16:54:29 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 21:54:29 +0100
Subject: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?)
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y8wh50ca.fsf@pobox.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> writes:
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 02:10:16PM +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
[...]
> > locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ("no", None))
[...]
> If this did work, then you can use the DSU pattern like so:
[...]

The advantage of which is that you don't have to mess with the locale.


John



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Sep  9 13:47:02 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:47:02 -0400
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org>
 <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com>
 <3f5dec0d@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <WIhX/kKkXI2b092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

Tom Lee <tl_nntp at webcrumb.com> wrote previously:
|JEdit is fantastic.  No matter what language I use it for, it never
|goes against the grain of my programming style.

I wrote off-list to the OP:

  As am I. jEdit is my editor on my PowerBook.  Everything from my
  articles and book, to Python, to XML, to C, to other languages.  It's
  not quite as fast as "native" code (at least on OSX1.2/Java1.4), but
  it does have nicely configurable keystrokes.  (I sometimes get
  "freezeups" for a second or two, which interupt my workflow).

  I confess that I've never really used the Jython feature, even though
  I have it installed.  I still write code in jEdit, but run it in
  Terminal.

Maybe I will include it in my roundup; it's hard to say what counts as
an IDE, but jEdit is helpful in many ways.

FWIW, even though I think this thread is generally useful for c.l.py
readers, for my article specifically, I am unlikely to evaluate any
Windows products.  I have one older Win98r2 laptop, but I haven't
touched it since tax time, and don't really like to touch Windows.

My main desktop is OS/2; I realize I won't find much for that, except
the Java tools.  But my main laptop is a Mac, which is probably where
I'll test.  However, I may decide to use my Linux or FreeBSD machines to
test specific tools, if needed.  Still, I have been very pleased to find
that 95% of the Free Software tools that interest me compile fine on OSX
(while I avoid 90% of the configuration/dependency nightmares I've grown
to fear in Linux).

Yours, David...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Sep 25 03:02:11 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:02:11 -0400
Subject: Pre-PEP: reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
 <tth3nvcb9oprv23bincf80c74051227vgv@4ax.com>
 <vdlcb.287$kD3.194@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <bksos0$jvi$07$1@news.t-online.com>
 <ln94nv0k81rdhkv9df39u94rhelmcpguo9@4ax.com>
 <eppstein-267FAC.17110124092003@news.service.uci.edu>
 <mailman.1064453195.20358.python-list@python.org>
 <eppstein-525BAB.22130724092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <zLpc/kKkXokQ092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|> Humans cannot solve the halting problem either, FWIW.  Just because a
|> programmer THINKS an iterator is finite, it don't mean it is!

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote previously:
|Well, true, but if you are a programmer and don't know whether your
|program is always going to halt, you probably shouldn't have written it
|that way.

Sure, I generally agree.  But creating a special __finite__ attribute
(or whatever) introduces a new source of potentially rather bad errors.
Doing a reverse iteration on an iterator that turns out to be infinite
(or even just VERY big) will presumably either freeze the system or
cause a memory overrun.

Moreover, I can see a class of cases where it's not obvious about
halting.  A generator that depends on some runtime data might halt for
all the "normal" cases, but wind up running infinitely long for special
(untested) cases.  Some attractors, for example, with the right
parameters (or wrong, depending on how you think of it) are strange, if
you know what I mean :-).

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From see at below.invalid  Thu Sep 11 22:05:55 2003
From: see at below.invalid (Paul Foley)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:05:55 +1200
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com>
 <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com>
 <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net>
 <66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp@4ax.com>
 <A8Ccna05HMkwQ_2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
 <uo02mv0dugi9ijk0k3llar0g3nmtnm59m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m24qziiwvw.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:32:03 +0100, Stephen Horne wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:44:28 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
> wrote:

>> My main objection was/is that expressed by Michael Chermside today:
>> this would complexify a simplicity that I consider a good feature of
>> Python.  Reading Bengt Richter's lastest response, also today, I
>> realize that 'ref x' would have to have much the same effect of Lisp's
>> FEXPR defun keyword -- of automatically quoting rather than evaluating
>> args -- although on just one rather than all.  Perhaps you should be
>> accused of 'trying to Lispify Python' -- or perhaps not ;-).

> I didn't know Lisp could do that. I really have to read up on Common
> Lisp one of these days.

Terry said "FEXPR", which tells you he's about 30 years out of date
wrt Lisp :-)  Any vaguely modern Lisp has macros instead of FEXPRs.



It's not difficult to implement what you're asking for in Lisp:

  (shadow 'defun)

  (defmacro defun (name lambda-list &body body)
    (let ((args '()) (mlet '()))
      (dolist (arg lambda-list)
        (if (and (consp arg) (eql (first arg) 'ref))
          (let ((tmp (gensym)))
            (push tmp args)
            (push `(,(second arg) (deref ,tmp)) mlet))
          (push arg args)))
      `(cl:defun ,name ,(nreverse args)
         (symbol-macrolet ,mlet
           , at body))))

  (defstruct (reference (:constructor %make-reference (reader writer))
                        (:conc-name ref%))
    (reader #'identity :type function)
    (writer #'identity :type function))

  (defmacro ref (obj)
    (multiple-value-bind (vars vals args writer reader)
        (get-setf-expansion obj)
      `(let ,(mapcar #'list vars vals)
         (%make-reference (lambda () ,reader) (lambda ,args ,writer)))))

  (defun deref (x) (funcall (ref%reader x)))
  (defun (setf deref) (v x) (funcall (ref%writer x) v))


E.g.,

USER> (defun foo (x (ref y) z (ref w))
  (setq y (+ x y))
  (setq w (+ y z w)))
FOO
USER> (let ((x 2) (y 4)) (values (foo 1 (ref x) 3 (ref y)) x y))
10   ; value returned by foo
3    ; value of x after call
10   ; value of y after call

[In fact, you can now use REF to make references to any "place", not
just simple variables: a particular element of an array, an instance
slot accessor, etc., etc.]

-- 
...Please don't assume Lisp is only useful for Animation and Graphics,
AI, Bioinformatics, B2B and E-Commerce, Data Mining, EDA/Semiconductor
applications, Expert Systems, Finance, Intelligent Agents, Knowledge
Management, Mechanical CAD, Modeling and Simulation, Natural Language,
Optimization, Research, Risk Analysis, Scheduling, Telecom, and Web
Authoring just because these are the only things they happened to
list.                                                      -- Kent Pitman

(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sun Sep 28 23:05:37 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 04:05:37 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it> <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com> <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com> <uy8w94wtz.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <lhacnvksb6ppje2lfogrqhv30rbcahgil2@4ax.com> <ulls92b18.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <136envcoppkt546p8rhjhpeqkj380a3g40@4ax.com> <uu16w1o6q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <u5uenvobuacg0fuap6rvuvn04279kjtdma@4ax.com>

It was my intention to explain the origins of my misunderstanding,
though certainly in a slightly less than serious way and with a big
dollop of its-not-all-my-fault-you-know. I tend to screw this kind of
thing up, and it seems I have done so again here.

Everything you have said in your last reply was at least 95% valid,
but there is a point I'd still like to make...

>I never, anywhere, said "std::pair supports..."
...
>> When you say "you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual
>> C++ iterator protocol" it implies to me that std::pair<T,T> provides
>> the iterator protocol itself
>
>Hey, it's not my fault you read what you want to see into what I
>posted.
...
>> But maybe I'm just being overliteral.
>
>No, you just don't know what "the usual iterator protocol" means.

I never said, anywhere, that you said that "std::pair supports..." if
we are being that pedantic, but in the life of this thread neither of
us really has been that pedantic. I quoted your exact words for the
crucial point, which were...

"you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual C++ iterator
protocol"

Pedantically speaking, this is imprecise language. Most significantly,
there is no such thing as "the usual C++ iterator protocol". An
iterator may implement any one of five different iterator protocols,
and these protocols have surprisingly little in common. All require an
operator++ and all require a dereference-style operator* and that is
it.

Actually, even the operator* isn't as common as it seems - input
iterators only support read access, output ones only write access - so
the practical commonality is limited to the operator++.

But then you weren't writing a standards document, and I wasn't
reading it as a standards document.

To most C++ programmers most of the time, the words "the usual C++
iterator protocol" don't have the pedantic meaning set by the C++
standard - they are not just about having an operator++. They have a
somewhat more pragmatic meaning, which includes the usual means of
obtaining iterators from containers. std::pair *is* a container in the
general sense of containing other objects, even though in the C++
standards document context it is not formally considered a container.

Of course there is room for misinterpretation in virtually any piece
of writing - criticism of your choice of words was certainly
intentional, but meant to be lighthearted.

But if you really believe that I "read what [I] want to see into what
[you] posted" then I'm afraid you're wrong. I saw an implication which
you never intended, but that was right at the start when I had no
reason to "want to see" anything in particular.

I do have a certain history in this kind of
minor-misunderstanding-gets-overblown storyline, as Alex Martelli I
think can confirm if he's still following the thread. Actually, he'll
probably say you should consider yourself lucky that it only got this
bad ;-)

Anyway, I'm in no doubt that I'm primarily (probably entirely)
responsible for the 'overblown' part especially with my previous post.
I appologise for that.


>This whole discussion started out talking about what the Python
>protocol for manipulating iterators should be.  The fact that
>iterators must themselves have an __iter__ method in Python may just
>be making this more confusing than it needs to be.

We may think of '__iter__' as part of the iterator protocol but,
pedantically speaking, it is no more part of the Python iterator
protocol than 'begin' is part of the C++ iterator protocol.

Iterators don't have to have an '__iter__' method in Python. Iterators
only have to have a 'next' method. It is the iterable object that
implements '__iter__'. And, as with getting C++ iterators from 'begin'
etc, even that is a convention rather than a requirement.

Sometimes iterators do have an '__iter__' method, but that normally
just returns self - it's a quick-fix convenience for when iterators
end up in a context where an iterable object is expected.

I guess our mindsets aren't so different that we can't make similar
mistakes ;-)


BTW - there's no reason why an iterator can't have additional methods
beyond those required for the iterator protocol. So a container class
could, for instance, support the following...

  for i in iter (container).range (begin, end).reverse () :
    ...

Simply by defining its iterator class as something like...

  class Iter (object) :
    def __init__ (self, p_Src) :
      "Keep ref to container to iterate, plus other setup stuff."
      self.Src = p_Src
      ...

    def __iter__ (self) :
      "Allow iterator to behave as iterable for convenience"
      return self

    def range (self, p_Begin, p_End) :
      "Set restriction on range to be iterated"
      ...
      return self

    def reverse (self) :
      "Set reverse-order iteration mode"
      ...
      return self

    def next (self) :
      "Get next item"
      ...

Which reminds me of Paul Foleys post in "Thoughts on PEP284",
Message-ID: <m2eky8dtny.fsf at mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>, about Lisp-like
for-loops - though actually it's really just a minor variation of what
Raymond suggested right from the start.

Hmmm - possibly this suggestion should be made closer to the root.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Tue Sep  9 01:34:18 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:34:18 -0700
Subject: Ternary operator (Re: Ternery operator)
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com> <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com> <vlopubqopkhaaf@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vlqpir6nh3a1ec@corp.supernews.com>

John Roth wrote:
> I wouldn't cast the blame on Guido. It's quite clear that he doesn't
> like the notion, but I don't get the impression that he's got the kind
> of devious mind that would think this was the way to resolve it.
> On the contrary, he seems to be a quite straightforward fellow in
> most ways.

Very true, and I certainly didn't mean to imply that Guido or anyone else
deliberately set up the voting in a devious way.

> The whole notion of "one and only chance" is astonishingly naive.
> There is no way that the vote on PEP 308 is going to keep people
> from bring up the idea, and having the opponents refer to it as the
> "community decision" when the vote was clearly in favor of having
> the feature added to the language will simply drive people away
> from the process.

Yes, that was what troubled me when I read the PEP. My first reaction on
reading this statement in the introduction was that it seemed
disingenuous--but I'm sure it was not intentionally so:

"Following the discussion, a vote was held. While there was an overall
interest in having some form of if-then-else expressions, no one format was
able to draw majority support. Accordingly, the PEP was rejected due to the
lack of an overwhelming majority for change."

OTOH, in a different context I might be all for this approach:

Sacramento, October 8, 2003: "While the recall of Gray Davis passed by a
wide margin, none of the 135 replacement candidates was able to draw a
majority of the votes. Therefore, California will have no Governor."

I can only dream... ;-)

-Mike

(Gray Davis fans: I'm just kidding around with you, OK?)





From cnetzer at sonic.net  Tue Sep  9 22:39:03 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:39:03 -0700
Subject: Internal states..
In-Reply-To: <505F956B.7ED29DB0.A05AB946@netscape.net>
References: <505F956B.7ED29DB0.A05AB946@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <1063161543.1862.52.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 19:05, ryan10975073 at netscape.net wrote:
> Chad Netzer <cnetzer at sonic.net> wrote:

>   Thank you. Sounds interesting. :~) well do you know any resource or something i can dwell into
>  for "Mersenne Twister (part of Python2.3),and "cryptographic random number generation" ??

For Mersenne Twister, just search on Google.  Same for cryptographic
random number generator (or cryptographic hash).  Mind you, the latter
are HEFTY subjects, with lots of math.  The crypto RNG topics require a
lot of knowledge about cryptography in general, to understand fully.

>  And what u are saying is that everytime the seed([x]) where x = long int, it would return the same value??

Yes.

$ python2.3
Python 2.3 (#1, Aug 12 2003, 13:06:21)
>>> import random
>>> help(random)
 
>>> random.seed(0)
>>> random.random()
0.84442185152504812
>>> random.random()
0.75795440294030247
>>> random.random()
0.420571580830845

>>> random.seed(0)
>>> random.random()
0.84442185152504812
>>> random.random()
0.75795440294030247
>>> random.random()
0.420571580830845


>  if it does thats then whats the point ??

Setting the seed has several uses.  You can store its value to repeat
sequences of events (sometime used in simulations).  You can create
truely random seed values somehow, then use them to set the seed (the
system time values are typically a small subset of all possible seeds,
and similar starting seeds can produce simlar values on poorly made
RNGs)

>  Its better to use seed() which is based on the system's time then..

If you don't care about the specific seed, yes, just let the system make
one for you.  For cryptographic applications (which the RNGs we are
talking about are NOT suited for, generally), it is very bad advice to
use the system time, alone, as a seed.

> And i think we can't use Mersenne Twister RNG in Python if i am not wrong.

Python2.3 comes with it.  It is just an implementation detail (but it is
generally considered a better, faster RNG than the previous
implementation).  It is what I used above.

Is there any reason you didn't send your reply to the Python mailing
list?  I'm CC'ing the list, since there is nothing personal in this
email, and it started on the list.


-- 
Chad Netzer





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Sep 23 05:53:52 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:53:52 +0200
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <mailman.1063300996.11325.python-list@python.org> <bkoh15$3ru85$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bkp57g$jm3$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> However, as a convenience, we might want to allow the 'ref'
> keyword to be usable on the left hand side of an expression
> as well, in a kind of "unpacking" sense, so that
>
>     ref x = xref
>     x = y
>
> would be equivalent to
>
>     xref.set(y)

You're moving too close to overloadable assignment for my taste (as a
magical __assign__ method wouldn't even require the ref syntax). Don't
mention this when impressionable kids are around.

Daniel






From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep  8 13:06:07 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:06:07 -0500
Subject: Redesign of Python site
In-Reply-To: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
Message-ID: <20030908170601.GD23847@unpythonic.net>

I don't think the design is that bad.  Here are my thoughts:

MAKE SURE THE DAMNED THING FILLS MY SCREEN, instead of using 80%, or
66%, or 400px, like so many shite websites out there. (yes, I know these
are images)

When this is converted to CSS, a "high contrast" style sheet should be
offered because there are many users who would benefit from it.
Similarly, make sure this site is good for links (text-only) browser
users.

Obviously, the links available directly from the front page need careful
consideration.  I visit python.org 90% of the time for documentation
(though usually through a bookmark to python.org/doc/lib), 5% for PEPs,
5% for links to sf tracker items (using URLs provided in e-mail), and 1%
(oops, I'm up to 101%) to download a new Python release.  My needs are
probably atypical, though.

Why are you calling python2.3.tar.gz a "binary"?  That file contains the
source code to Python, not any binary executable.  Bow to the forces of
marketing and include stupid meaningless pictures and slogans if you must,
but at least keep the page technically correct!

Jeff




From nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net  Fri Sep  5 10:48:19 2003
From: nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net (KC)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:48:19 -0400
Subject: htmllib.py and parsing malformed HTML
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.04.22.44.59.39712@jerf.org>
References: <G1T4b.2227$gJ.1163@bignews3.bellsouth.net> <bj1sh5$e9i7j$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <JP%4b.4205$tH.3863@bignews4.bellsouth.net> <873cfeyhqw.fsf@pobox.com> <09J5b.203$MD.41@bignews3.bellsouth.net> <pan.2003.09.04.22.44.59.39712@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <kl16b.1089$Sm1.1079@bignews6.bellsouth.net>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:50:07 -0400, KC wrote:
> 
...

> that's bad in a lot of little ways, you'll find the "apply a hack to fix
> this file, apply a hack to fix that file" will start stepping on its own
> toes.
Oh yeah, I couldn't agree more.  Any more requests for "hacks" and 
HTMLTidy gets brought into the picture.
> 
> HTMLTidy represents a ***lot*** of grunt work and a ***lot*** of
> functionality that you can *not* replicate in a reasonable amount of time;
> it's one of those packages that isn't so much a program that "does
> something" as a program that represents many, many man-years of "knowledge
> acquired". 
> 
Agreed.  I like HTMLTidy very much and it's obvious it could save us 
developers a lot of effort.





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep  9 11:45:19 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:45:19 -0500
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <bjj23b$d0p$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
        <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
        <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
        <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
        <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org>
        <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com>
        <bjj23b$d0p$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <16221.62863.848649.884159@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Bengt> I guess it wouldn't be too hard to set up a cgi url on
    Bengt> python.org, if desired, to do two-step redirection -- i.e., you'd
    Bengt> pass it a small string and it would look up the URL and generate
    Bengt> a minimal html page with a plain url link in it, e.g.,

Not difficult, no.  I guess I lost the original thread (in my head at
least).  What's the Python benefit here?  If a CGI redirector was installed
on www.python.org I'd want some assurances that it couldn't be subverted.
The only way I can see that happening is if it only redirects to a small set
of well known (to the webmasters) sites: www.python.org, mail.python.org,
starship.python.net, www.zope.org, etc.  Americans are a litigious bunch.
If some evildoer generated a tiny url using your proposed feature which led
to a porn site and posted it where young kids could find it, I doubt you'd
have to wait long before some outraged parent sued the PSF.

With 280 million people there are bound to be a few assholes.

Skip




From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 15:14:35 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:14:35 GMT
Subject: mod_python installation
References: <kue1mv4fer2lncl8r17q2vmhi30drvme2k@4ax.com> <ss38b.700$8g2.400@news1.central.cox.net> <1el1mvophomd4t0hh5ckci0t172afk00gu@4ax.com> <bk1fi9$bun$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <viJ9b.13121$x21.5089@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Kai Thomsen" <kaithomsen at gmx.de> wrote in message news:bk1fi9$bun$02$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> > Just found in the mailing list archives that mod_python 3.0.* is *not*
> > Python 2.3 compatible, and that upgrading to Py2.3 should be postponed
> > until mod_python 3.1.* is available :-(
> >
> > -pu
> >
> I don't know iff it is really not compatible. You can find a patch at
> the mod_python page that you have to apply to use it with Python 2.3.
> mod_python needs to be recompiled naturally, but I have it working on a
> couple of Apache boxes (Linux and W2K) without any problems so far.
>
> Kai
>

What patch? At what page? The latest release of mod_python for Windows,
that I could find, is 3.1.0a, which doesn't start with Apache 2.0.43/Windows XP.
Is the patched mod_python available anywhere for downloading? Can you share it?
Thank you,
M-a-S





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Sep  5 16:39:54 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:39:54 -0400
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
 <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
 <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it>
 <b15d2792.0309040605.4d8e5f21@posting.google.com>
 <sI16b.28606$R32.850357@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <aSPW/kKkXsOI092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

|> yes Safari seems ok , you get a few days for free to browse but it's
|> not totally free.I think the electronic version should be free.Some

|safari is only free for two weeks; then, if you like the service it
|gives you, you can choose to continue a (paid) subscription.

FWIW, my book, _Text Processing in Python_ (http://gnosis.cx/TPiP) is,
has been, and will remain freely accessible in electronic form for all
readers--even those who have not paid for anything.  I really buy into
the "information wants to be free" schtick.

That said, the book is also copyrighted by Addison Wesley; so my
principles are limited by their discretion.  For example, I wanted to
make a PDF version of my book available, but only to buyers of the
dead-tree version.  Well, without AW to consider, I might have wanted to
do so on an unlimited basis, but I thought that was a compromise.  I
even had in mind a little system for using a "What's the first word on
page NNN?" quiz to authorize downloads.

Sadly, AW strongly pooh-pooh'd this idea.  I think they're wrong, but
they think leaking a PDF would kill international sales.  Obviously,
there -is- a point that testing readers of the original download doesn't
really prevent redistribution of the file.  But IMO, the so-called
"pirates" wouldn't be likely buyers anyway.

Ah well... personally, I like the ASCII version better for electronic
access than I would a PDF (well, it's -do- actually...  I myself have
the PDF perfectly available on my computer :-)).  When I want to remind
myself of a some function arguments or the like, grep does a really
quick job of reminding me about what I took the effort to research
during writing (of course the standard documentation is likewise useful,
but sometimes I like my own phrasing better...  I wrote it, after all
*wink*).

Yours, David...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Sep  5 10:20:01 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:20:01 -0400
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bj9c2d$87g$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <RuJW/ks/Kvdc089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <bj9c2d$87g$05$1 at news.t-online.com>,
"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> wrote:
>from random import random
>rowA1 =[random()]*100000; rowA2=[random()]*100000

   Note, though, that each of these would get you 100000
copies of a particular randomly-chosen number.

rowA1 = [random() for i in xrange (100000)]

will give differing numbers.

        Regards.        Mel.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep 15 17:51:00 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:51:00 -0500
Subject: compound conditional statements
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0309151331.76f1d658@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0309151331.76f1d658@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030915215100.GQ32270@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 02:31:06PM -0700, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> If I have code 
> 
> if (aa or bb): print "true", 
> 
> does Python evaluate aa and bb in any particular order? Can I assume that if 
> aa is true, bb will not be evaluated?

Yes.

For more information, read the language reference:
http://python.org/doc/ref/Booleans.html
    The expression x or y first evaluates x; if x is true, its value is
    returned; otherwise, y is evaluated and the resulting value is
    returned.  

Jeff




From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Fri Sep  5 13:39:58 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 13:39:58 -0400
Subject: How do I match this with re
References: <mailman.1062719806.4813.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3y8x3qglt.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

"Tony Meyer" <ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz> writes:

> For those that like a more GUI sort of thing, I highly recommend kodos:
> <http://kodos.sourceforge.net>

Komodo has a nice regular expression tool, but of course it's not
free.

Stallman help me, I'm actually thinking of paying money for an IDE...

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  8 08:13:36 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:13:36 +0200
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253>
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com>
	<bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com>
	<6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <3F5C7270.1020001@ghaering.de>

Bob Gailer wrote:
> On Win 2K the Task Scheduler writes a log file that appears to be 
> encoded. The first line is:
> 
> '\xff\xfe"\x00T\x00a\x00s\x00k\x00 
> \x00S\x00c\x00h\x00e\x00d\x00u\x00l\x00e\x00r\x00 
> \x00S\x00e\x00r\x00v\x00i\x00c\x00e\x00"\x00\r\x00\n'

I wrote that into a file, and used the 'file' utility from Cygwin, which 
tells me:

$ file t
t: Little-endian UTF-16 Unicode character data, with CR line terminators

AFAIK the codecs module doesn't have autodetection of codecs.

HTH,

-- Gerhard




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 23 14:03:27 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:03:27 -0400
Subject: Executing a python script from an HTML link?
References: <tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <vn0tdkg96jlcc7@news.supernews.com> <1t%bb.407$Q44.601209120@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <vn12mo10nr5n1a@news.supernews.com>

"Andrew Chalk" <achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote in message
news:1t%bb.407$Q44.601209120 at newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Thanks. I want to run the script on the server. The problem is that I
don't
> have an html page as an HREF. Viz:
>
> <tr><A HREF="Fred.htm">Fred</A>
> What replaces Fred.htm to invoke a server-side script?
> Regards.

That's not a Python issue. It's a web server configuration
issue. You should be able to configure your web server
to recognize href="fred.py" as a request to run the fred.py
script using the Python interpreter, and pass back whatever
web page, graphic or other file it outputs. For that matter,
you might even be able to configure it to recognize
"Fred.htm" as a python script, and rewrite the name
to "fred.py."

John Roth
>
>
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
> news:vn0tdkg96jlcc7 at news.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Andrew Chalk" <achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote in message
> > news:tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578 at newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Is this possible? In my CGI app. I display a web page with a link
> > (anchor).
> > > When the link is clicked I want to exectute a python script rather
than
> go
> > > to an HTML page.
> >
> > Do you want to run the script on the server or the client? If you
> > want to run it on the client, you can use Python instead of Javascript
> > (or in addition to Javascript) in the web page. Look at the <script>
> > tag for the language (I think that's the one - I haven't looked it up
> > recently) attribute. Otherwise, just invoke Python the same way you
would
> > invoke any other executable, and use the script name as the
> > first parameter.
> >
> > John Roth
> >
> > >
> > > Many thanks.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>





From kmkstyle at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 07:41:35 2003
From: kmkstyle at hotmail.com (Kathleen Kudzma)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:41:35 -0400
Subject: Tkinter and Pygame
Message-ID: <Law15-F22ixMwInhdAH0000747b@hotmail.com>

Does anyone know how to embed a Pygame window in a Tkinter widget?

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with MSN Messenger 6.0 -- download now! 
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_general





From max at alcyone.com  Fri Sep 19 18:30:34 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:30:34 -0700
Subject: Python API
References: <pan.2003.09.19.22.10.30.395537@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <3F6B838A.7B4FD35C@alcyone.com>

RR wrote:

> Hello, where is nice site that would have python API documentation?
> In particular I am trying to find documentation on the function
> string.find

python.org has the Language and Standard References.

The string module is documented here:

	http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-string.html

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Forgiveness is another word for letting go.
\__/  Matthew Fox



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 12:50:11 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:50:11 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com> <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com> <ebt0nvckrjv0or52pdmi8ghe147006ioi9@4ax.com> <kl31nvk4j0lhsbmeg9pra3c4mh78rrkivp@4ax.com> <6bm1nvc7pfkqppndn0lcks0edqdqf02tra@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9ji3nv8l1l57t1ichle04hkd41s31i9fmf@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:02:47 +0100, Stephen Horne
<$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>This would be a nightmare for the parser - until it finds the colon or
>end-of-line (or semicolon perhaps) it simply wouldn't know which case
>it was dealing with.
>
>But if this is bad for the parser, just think what it would do to
>users! - forgetting a trailing semicolon shouldn't result in a
>statement which is legal yet with a significantly different meaning.

That's why I don't like it in Perl and Ruby -- I can tell it's hard
for the parser because so few syntax highlighters get it right!

Maybe I'm getting twitchy about nothing -- after all, indentation
being significant brough back unhappy memories of FORTRAN, but Python
makes it work...



From mark at hahnca.com  Sun Sep  7 11:29:35 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:29:35 -0700
Subject: win32com: create email message in windows default app?
Message-ID: <z9I6b.18545$n94.7236@fed1read04>

Can someone point me in the right direction to tell windows to run the
default email application, create a new message, and let me populate it with
subject, body, and attachments?  I've been studying win32com.client and I
think I could use it for a specific application like outlook, but I need it
to work for any app such as Eudora.





From jtauber at jtauber.com  Sun Sep 14 01:39:40 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:39:40 +0800
Subject: Anybody know the Etymology of the word 'Sprint' as in coding Sprint?
In-Reply-To: <200309131939.h8DJdGHP007875@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <200309131939.h8DJdGHP007875@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <20030914053940.A4BCB3BBF6@www.fastmail.fm>

At a previous company I was at, we'd have coding sprints that were a
month long but our CEO was an ultra-marathon runner so I always put it
down to his distorted view of what constituted a "sprint".

James

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 21:39:16 +0200, "Laura Creighton" <lac at strakt.com>
said:
> 
> I think it comes from Jeff Sutherland's Agile Programming Methodology,
> called Scrum http://jeffsutherland.com/scrum/index.html where work is
> planned into month long interations called Sprints.  (Jeff must have
> terrific stamina if he thinks that the thing to call a month-long race
> is a Sprint :-) )
> 
> These days we do them shorter -- as in a 4 days Sprint before Pycon.
> 
> Anybody know the etymology for sure?
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 22 15:14:15 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:14:15 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <3F6CB062.E127F970@engcorp.com> <qhadna08dpEsmvOiXTWJig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <vmuih0s87kpq61@news.supernews.com>

Look at PEP's 296 and 298.

John Roth

"Gordon Airport" <uce at ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:qhadna08dpEsmvOiXTWJig at comcast.com...
> Peter Hansen wrote:
>
> snip good points that I suspect could be handled with a fairly simple
> regex
>
> > It might be worth your writing a PEP, however, if only so that the
> > idea could be killed and buried for good. ;-)
> >
>
> Yeah, I didn't see one already but I kind of expected this response.
> Still, it didn't put a stake in the heart of the ternary operator
> issue.
>
>





From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 17:57:27 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:57:27 +0100
Subject: Ways to improve this clock algorithm?
In-Reply-To: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com>
References: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200309152257.27680.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Monday 15 Sep 2003 10:02 pm, Jacob H wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm close to being a novice programmer and I never was good at math.
> So I'm curious to know ways in which this following code can be made
> more efficient, more elegant. The code just calculates and displays
> elapsed wall clock seconds since initialization.
>
> class ExampleTimer:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.start = time.clock()
>
>     def run(self):
>         while 1:
>             now = time.clock()
>             allseconds = int(now) = int(self.start)
>             seconds = 0
>             minutes = 0
>             hours = 0
>             for n in range(1, (allseconds + 1)):
>                 seconds += 1
>                 if n % 60 == 0:
>                     minutes += 1
>                     seconds = 0
>                 if n % 3600 == 0:
>                     hours += 1
>                     minutes = 0
>             print "%s hrs %s min %s sec" % (hours, minutes, seconds)
>             time.sleep(1)
>
> app = ExampleTimer()
> app.run()
>
> I am grateful for any suggestions and advice. :)
>
> Jake

Jake,

Maybe this'll help:
>>> import time
>>> start=time.time()
>>> # waste some time...
>>> now=time.time()-start
>>> now
266.24996101856232
>>> secs=int(now % 60)
>>> secs
26
>>> mins=int((now-secs) /60)
>>> mins
4
>>> hrs=int((now-secs-mins) /(60*60))
>>> hrs
0
>>> 

-andyj




From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Fri Sep  5 11:17:14 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 15:17:14 GMT
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bja8ls$k1j$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hawkfish-542F88.08165705092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

In article <bja8ls$k1j$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
 Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thursday 04 September 2003 20:35, Richard Wesley wrote:
> 
> > I have a unit test suite for our server that loads a clean database
> > image for many of the tests.  I use
> > 
> > p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
> > p.write(sql_commands)
> 
> Your pipe is still open at this point, and therefore you have a
> connection to the database open.
> 
> > So my question would be, is there any way to shut down the child
> > process so that MySQL notices and cleans up after itself before it
> > runs out of threads?
> 
> p.close()

Yeah, I tried this, but it had no effect.

The odd thing is that the process list cleans up _immediately_ when the 
script terminates.  Maybe this is some sort of gc problem?

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"You're confusing boredom with motivation."
                  - Sherman in "Sherman's Lagoon"



From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep 25 03:43:14 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:43:14 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <AYwcb.2766$RW4.2047@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m0xcb.2768$RW4.1072@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Me:
>   - else uses "for i in itertools.count(): yield[obj[-i]]"

should be

   - else uses "for i in itertools.count(1): yield[obj[-i]]"

                     Andrew
                     dalke at dalkescientific.com





From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Sun Sep 21 16:33:45 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 21 Sep 2003 22:33:45 +0200
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com> <bkc5lv$5c4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <HBF.20030918w8nt@bombur.uio.no> <bkcbdu$l0c$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <HBF.200309217by@bombur.uio.no>

JCM wrote:
>   >>> def foo():
>   ...   x = [3]
>   ...   def bar():
>   ...     x[0] += 1
>   (...)
> 
> This is actually one of my biggest complaints about Python.  I'd like
> syntactic disambiguation between definition and assignment in order to
> have control over which scope you're assigning into.

Maybe Python could be changed to let 'foo.x' inside function foo mean
the x variable in foo?

-- 
Hallvard



From harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com  Fri Sep 19 11:34:29 2003
From: harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com (Harry Pehkonen)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 08:34:29 -0700
Subject: Tkinter.Text can never be empty?
References: <70df36e9.0309160826.596dd5ab@posting.google.com> <bk7h90$geg$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <70df36e9.0309190734.67022292@posting.google.com>

> | >>> t = Tkinter.Text()
> | >>> t.get(0.0, Tkinter.END)
>  '\n'
> | My question is:  Is there *always* a trailing \n, is this a bug, or am
> | I doing something silly?
> 
> Nope, this is one of the idiosyncrasies of our friend the Text widget;
> there's always this immortal LF at the end.
> 
> Vincent Wehren

Thanks, Vincent :D

Harry.



From uce at ftc.gov  Sun Sep 21 16:18:58 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:18:58 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings
In-Reply-To: <3F6CB062.E127F970@engcorp.com>
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <3F6CB062.E127F970@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <qhadna08dpEsmvOiXTWJig@comcast.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

snip good points that I suspect could be handled with a fairly simple
regex

> It might be worth your writing a PEP, however, if only so that the
> idea could be killed and buried for good. ;-)
> 

Yeah, I didn't see one already but I kind of expected this response.
Still, it didn't put a stake in the heart of the ternary operator
issue.





From claird at lairds.com  Fri Sep  5 15:33:02 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:33:02 -0000
Subject: Automated code generation
References: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <vlhff5srvf1l28@corp.supernews.com> <3F58D910.197C3C85@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <vlhp7eobtmt703@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3F58D910.197C3C85 at easystreet.com>,  <achrist at easystreet.com> wrote:
>Cameron Laird wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> 
>> Yes, it's largely useless in a language as dynamic as Python.
>
>
>Isn't SWIG a code generator?
>
>
>Al

I'm regarding SWIG as not about writing in Python; it's
about writing in a combination of Python and C (or C++,
or Fortran, or ...).
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From chouyiyu at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 29 23:43:32 2003
From: chouyiyu at hotmail.com (Yi-Yu Chou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:43:32 +0000
Subject: python, vtk, C++
Message-ID: <BAY8-F60OBFbCUalRlU000010ab@hotmail.com>

Dear all,

I want to use python as my GUI to load a 3D volume (vtkImageData),
and use a pointer to pass this 3D image to my own C++ class.
My question is I don't know how to communicate between python and C++.
Any suggestion would be appreciated.

_________________________________________________________________
???? MSN ???????????????????????????????
? http://msn.com.tw 





From erwin at andreasen.com  Sat Sep 20 10:45:11 2003
From: erwin at andreasen.com (Erwin S. Andreasen)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 16:45:11 +0200
Subject: Module to generate OpenOffice Writer documents
References: <1093E8BAEB6AD411997300508BDF0A7C1571ECD0@USHEM204> <mailman.1063844066.4336.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87n0cziknc.fsf@andreasen.org>

python <python at sarcastic-horse.com> writes:

> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:53:15 -0400
> "Ellinghaus, Lance" <lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone created a module to generate the XML formatted files for
> > OpenOffice?
> > 
> 
> Sorry, I can't help you there.
> 
> What I'd be even more interested in is if it is possible to submit the
> xml to OpenOffice, and then use its rendering features to crank out
> pretty PDF files, all through scripts.

I do almost exactly that, though the output is Power Point rather than
PDF.

I originally wanted to do this using the Python UNO API but that
proved somewhat difficult to use (although the Office Basic API is
also horrible).

So all I do is to generate a OO XML file, stick it in a fixed location
then call:
  soffice -display :1 macro:///Standard.Module1.NewConvert

where the Standard.Module1.NewConvert macro is one that opens the
file, saves as PPT and closes the document again (the macro is easy
enough to generate using the macro recording feature).

The display at :1 is a virtual framebuffer (xvfb) where OpenOffice is
running -- calling soffice if it is already running asks the main
program to synchronously run the macro and the soffice command exits
once the main program is done with its execution.

As for the XML input file: I generate most of it by hand. I started
out by generating everything to the specs I wanted (styles, etc.) and
saving that file. The .SX? files are just ZIP files, with the the
content stored in the 'content.xml' file, the format of which is
decently documented. So you can take your template and just build on
top of it.

This is much nicer than generating RTF by hand, which I also do in the
same program :)

This guy provides automated conversion online using a similar system:

 http://oooconv.free.fr/engine/OOOconv.php



-- 
===============================================================
<erwin at andreasen.org>                           Herlev, Denmark     
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>                             <*>   
===============================================================




From opo at opo.com  Tue Sep  9 06:23:17 2003
From: opo at opo.com (franck)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 12:23:17 +0200
Subject: method post
Message-ID: <DSh7b.1346$95.81@newsr2.u-net.net>

Hi,

how to do a post with python?

thx





From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Fri Sep  5 06:43:29 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 03:43:29 -0700
Subject: Saving IDLE output
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0309050243.2621b81f@posting.google.com>

Is there a way of programmatically saving the text in an IDLE session?



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 16 19:24:04 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 16:24:04 -0700
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0309161524.32773189@posting.google.com>

paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore) wrote in message news:<182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482 at posting.google.com>...
> I was just writing some code which did date/time manipulations, and I
> found that the Python 2.3 datetime module does not supply a number of
> fairly basic functions. I understand the reasoning (the datetime
> module provides a set of datatypes, and doesn't attempt to get into
> the murky waters of date algorithms) but as these things can be quite
> tricky to get right, I was wondering if anyone has already implemented
> any date algorithms, or alternatively if I'd missed some easy way of
> doing what I'm after.
>
> [description of needed functions]

I wrote a module just like that at my last job.  Given a date object,
you could find the first or last day of the month, quarter, or year. 
There were also functions to answer questions like "What was the date
5 months ago?" or "What date is the first Monday after October 8?"

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the source code here.



From neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 05:55:07 2003
From: neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk (Neil Padgen)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:55:07 +0000
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bja8ls$k1j$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
 <hawkfish-542F88.08165705092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
 <bji5h7$bqo$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
 <hawkfish-921F58.15265908092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
 <bjkdoa$3ea$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
 <hawkfish-7B21B7.09501410092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
 <hawkfish-E07291.08435911092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <861xumz5z8.fsf@pc-nrp.dev.mon.bbc.co.uk>

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Wesley <hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com> writes:

    Richard> OK, I'm an idiot.  It had nothing to do with the reload
    Richard> script.  The connections were from the TestCase subclass
    Richard> I have that instantiates a connection management object.
    Richard> It appears that the unittest module does not dispose of
    Richard> the objects it instantiates until the end of the run, so
    Richard> you need to REALLY clean up in the tearDown method.  I
    Richard> discovered this by making a persistent connection for the
    Richard> reload operation and noticing that the number of
    Richard> connections still increased.

Doh!  I should have thought of this, as I've had exactly the same
problem in the past.

Thanks for posting your solution.

-- Neil



From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Tue Sep 30 07:09:32 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 04:09:32 -0700
Subject: Factory function to generate a named class
References: <3f702b3a$0$23594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309300309.568a99f@posting.google.com>

Hello Derek,

> Is there a way to generate an instance of a class given the class name at
> runtime? If so, what, in newbie terms, is it?

If you don't mind using "eval" then:

from types import ClassType
def gen_class(name):
    try:
        c = eval(name)
        if type(c) != ClassType:
            return None
        return c
   except NameError:
      return None

HTH.
Miki



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Mon Sep 15 08:45:52 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:45:52 +0200
Subject: Advice from Jeff (Was Re: Is there "let binding" in Python?)
In-Reply-To: <o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856@typhoon.sonic.net>
References: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list@python.org> <o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3f65b1d8$0$20628$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Don Bruder wrote:
> In article <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list at python.org>,
>  Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> 
> <major snippage>
> 
(and another one...)

> Who knows... In the process of doing the port, I may begin to like 
> Python enough to actually try to use it.
> 

Who knows ?-)

You may find out that what at first looked like a toy language finally 
happens to be a real, full-blown and really powerful (from the 
programmer's POV) application programming language...

Bruno




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 11:17:01 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:17:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <Xns9402A53AD8C02duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote in 
news:h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080 at nnrp1.uunet.ca:

> I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the language.  For 
> example, could a line ending with = or + could be automaticly considered 
> incomplete?

You very rarely need \ as it is. Any parenthesised expression may be split 
across lines without problems.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep 15 15:34:39 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:34:39 -0500
Subject: why is this failing?
In-Reply-To: <87llsu6hij.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
        <3F60E645.2501B9EE@engcorp.com>
        <3f60ea13$0$42053$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
        <87llsu6hij.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16230.5199.376258.599744@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    John> You wouldn't happen to know how to do this for python-mode?

The attached patch for python-mode colors the 2.3 builtins like keywords.
(Maybe they should be a different color, but I'm lazy.)  Note that I
included the specials __debug__, __doc__, __import__ and __name__.  That was
initially an oversight, but upon a nanosecond's worth of reflection I
decided that leaving them colored isn't obviously a bad idea.  You can just
delete them from the kw3 list if you don't agree.

Skip
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From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Thu Sep 18 15:47:43 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:47:43 +0200
Subject: Web server with Python
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com> <mailman.1063352060.32640.python-list@python.org> <6o24mvcmksid33t4s9b8cbsrnctl5n2o6m@4ax.com> <mailman.1063518260.30336.python-list@python.org> <sf0cmvo2ccdqnnhe8bmvdfg5cj4099oav3@4ax.com> <mailman.1063676964.7166.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vp2kmv07ko4j5fs2gkoaeqjqju04co3bfa@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:48:21 +1000, Andrew Bennetts
<andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote:

>> I have started digging into Medusa right now... and stay focused on
>> that one until I have a blocking problem or I get bored ;-)
>
>We'll be waiting ;)

Wait no more... I am currently working my way through the Twisted doc,
now that the Python 2.3 version of Twisted is out. I spend an awful
amount of time to get a dynamic page with Medusa, specifically due to
the fact that there is no documentation except the comments in the code.

I am most impressed by Twisted.
But then, of course, you knew that already ;-)

-PU



From a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de  Fri Sep 26 13:33:53 2003
From: a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de (Andreas Neudecker)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:33:53 +0200
Subject: Where to import modules?
In-Reply-To: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
References: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <3F747881.8030303@uni-bonn.de>

Hi.

Thank you for your opinions!

Good to look at it from different sides.
So I think one could sum it all up as:

- Best place for importing modules is at the top of the file.
- if optimisation requires or programmer desires to import specific 
modules somewhere else, it is a good idea to add a comment at the top, 
where all the other modules are imported.
- for optimasation importing inside modules/functions will only make 
sense if loading the module takes time (try rpy, the wrapper for R!) and 
is not used every time the program runs.

I liked Peter Hansen's remark on optimasation:
"Basically doing this is an optimization, and you shouldn't be 
optimizing before the program is working, and you shouldn't be 
optimizing without a real need for it.  (That is, just because it's a 
little faster doesn't mean it's worth doing.)"

But also the contrary remark by "JCM":
"Aside from being an optimization, it's also good for documentation.
If you see an import at the top of a file it might not be immediately
clear how or why the module is being used.  It's similar reasoning to
why you might define variables in the narrowest scope posible."


Thanks everybody.

Regards


Andreas





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 00:49:14 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:49:14 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <cthvmvk3uif5qt1hkftmp2hbdia74fjq3d@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:00:32 -0700, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>"for i in 0:10:2:" would be more Pythonic, but has a 
>little ambiguity problem ("for i in 0:10:2" without the colon seems like 
>it should execute the statement "2" ten times) and again doesn't add 
>much in readability or power to what we can already do with range.

That's pretty close to my suggestion, which - in brief - was...

  for i in int [0:10:2] :
    ...

that is, allow the 'int' type object to be sliced, and return an
iterator as the result - not just for the for loop, but generally
(though optimising the 'for' loop usage to avoid physically creating
the iterator might be a good idea).

This shouldn't be too wierd as Pythonistas are already familiar with
slicing - it's just that a type is being sliced rather than a list or
string. But to anyone familiar with computer science, a set of values
is a key feature of any abstract data type anyway. It just so happens
that the set of integers is conveniently sliceable (as long as the
start value is specified).

True, it is mostly just an alternative notation for range or xrange.
But the integer for loops thing is something that never seems to go
away. PEP284 itself quotes four previous PEPs on broadly the same
issue.

The rejected PEP204 is uncomfortably close to my (and your)
suggestions, but while the difference is small I think it is
significant. It is reasonable to think of a type as a potentially
sliceable set of values, and practical to implement providing the type
has certain properties such as being discrete.

Also, one extra feature is that the loop can be infinite (which range
and xrange cannot achieve)...

  for i in int [0:] :
    ...
    if condition : break
    ...


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Fri Sep 19 07:40:07 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 04:40:07 -0700
Subject: Python ISPs
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com> <877k45aj7z.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0309190340.38af2922@posting.google.com>

How about freezope.org ? They provide free zope
hosting. I think they allow you to add custom
python scripts to the zope server they run.

You get to create a freezope domain like
yourdomain.freezope.org. 

It is a pretty neat provider.

-Anand

Lukasz Pankowski <lupan at zamek.gda.pl> wrote in message news:<877k45aj7z.fsf at psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>...
> JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox) writes:
> 
> > Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
> > seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
> > this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
> > leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
> > solution.
> >
> >                         Thanks Joey.
> 
> I know only one commercial webside: http://www.python-hosting.com/,
> they have mod_python, Spyce and many more (Zope, Plone, Nuxeo CPS,
> Silva, Webware, Twisted, CherryPy, SkunkWeb, Quixote, 4Suite Server,
> Spyce, Albatross, Cheetah, mod_python, Straight CGI)
> 
> for free testing of CherryPy consider http://www.freecherrypy.org/
> 
> newer used, just know it exist



From mark at diversiform.com  Tue Sep 16 15:40:05 2003
From: mark at diversiform.com (mark)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:40:05 -0700
Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)
In-Reply-To: <lsJ9b.13162$x21.6784@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <000401c37c8a$56a76d50$5501a8c0@markxp>

Pardon me for saying so, but you've been posting a bunch of questions
that a good book can answer.  As far as this question in particular,
take a look at 'Python and Tkinter Programming' by John E. Grayson.  Pmw
contains a widget called balloon, which performs the function you are
seeking.

- Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of M-a-S
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:25 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)

How can I have tooltips for buttons of a toolbar
or for control items of a dialog?
Does such feature exist at all?

M-a-S


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list






From ivoras at fer.hr  Tue Sep 16 14:39:38 2003
From: ivoras at fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:39:38 +0200
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr> <9egemvkhp2s55horjr9dfveml22158d62g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bk7lfj$v5p$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Ok, I gather touples should be smaller & faster as I thought :)


-- 
-- 
Every sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology
   - Arthur C Anticlarke





From mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 23 10:08:17 2003
From: mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:08:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
In-Reply-To: <3F7049D3.14C48D43@engcorp.com>
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com>
    <3F7049D3.14C48D43@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <60278.199.169.240.132.1064326097.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

I suggest that you write that python prototype and don't worry about the
python-vs-perl debate.  Python vs. perl is a false dilemma and a waste of
energy.  In my experience, converting a well-written, well-documented
python program to perl is fairly straightforward, especially if you've got
people that are familiar with both languages.  The hard part (for me) is
figuring out the functions/classes/algorithms that will solve the puzzle. 
Once that's done, you should be able to convert your app to perl, C, java,
etc, given enough time.

In general, I tend to think of python and perl (and any language really)
as different systems of shorthand/markup for my pseudocode.  I like python
because I got tired of writing stuff like this:

foreach my $x (@{$hashref->{'arr'}} ) { ... } #too many non-word characters!

Furthermore, dealing with subroutine parameters in perl isn't nearly as
pretty as python, IMHO.  But in general, my brain works on puzzles in the
same way (very slowly), regardless of which language I'm using.

Anyway, a completely different strategy to take, if you feel like being
snarky, is to mention how parrot will interpret perl and python, so in a
way, your python is already written in perl 6.


> Roy Smith wrote:
>>
>> I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some
>> point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost
>> certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince
>> them otherwise.
>
> Do you need to convince them now, to allow you to continue working on it
> in Python, or are you just preparing for the time when they will come and
> ask for it to be done in Perl?
>
> I ask because I suspect the best way of convincing them will be to do
> nothing, and stand back watching as your Python prototype continues to
> work without problems, while those attempting to rewrite it in Perl
> waste a lot of time and never get it quite working...  and even if they
> do, just print out a couple of pages from both and show them to the
> "powers that be" and that ought to do the trick.
>
> Unless they are wholly uninterested in readability and maintainability.
> :-(
>
> -Peter
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep  9 08:28:30 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:28:30 +0200
Subject: What does the keyword 'global' really mean
References: <3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <bjkeau$aa3$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bjkh1j$mfv$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Michael Peuser wrote:

> (1) No! When you 'import' a modul all variables (except __...) will be
> visible to you.

As far as I know, there is no way to hide a module level variable:

<hidden.py>
x = "alpha"
_y = "beta"
__z = "gamma"
</hidden.py>

>>> import hidden
>>> dir(hidden)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__z', '_y', 'x']
>>>

> (2) You as well have visiblity inside a modul function to variables used
> in the modul scope, i.e. you do have to declare them 'global' if you only
> want to 'read' them.

Oops! You need not declare them when you do not want to bind them to another
object instance.

>> Also, does Python have the equivalent of the 'C' keyword 'static'?
> 
> Not as a special construct, but you can use real 'dummy keyword
> parameters' for that:
> 
> def p(p1,p2,....myown={}):
> myown[....] =
> 
> This trick will emulate something similar to 'static'

If you want to to emulate a "static" variable in a function, as in:

int contrived(void) { static int i=-1; i += 1; return i; }

use

def contrived():
    contrived.i += 1
    return contrived.i
contrived.i = -1

or (better, but will accept parameters only once)

def contrived():
    i = 0
    while True:
        yield i
        i += 1

or a class with a __call__() method
and live happily ever after.

Peter    



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep  8 17:22:04 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:22:04 -0400
Subject: Eureka!
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
 <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
 <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
 <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org>
 <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <8LPX/kKkX89D092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote previously:
|* You can't tell ahead of time what site you are going to be redirected to.
|  As a result, you lose complete freedom to choose whether or not you should
|  follow the link.

As Dave Brueck noted, the same is true of ANY URL.  I use a few
redirects on my own website, so just because you think you are going to
a gnosis.cx address doesn't mean you'll wind up there.  In an innocuous
case, the URL <http://gnosis.cx/TpiP/> redirects you to my actual book
page (which differs in capitalization)--this just addresses a typo AW
made on my jacket.  Even so, the page you wind up seeing has a different
URL that what you copy to your browser.  A slightly greater change is
with <http://gnosis.cx/voting-project/>, which directs you to an
entirely different host (for now, I might more it to the same host
later).  While there's no malice here, readers had no idea they would
wind up on gnosis.python-hosting.com.

If I wanted to be REALLY malicious, I could post a link like:

    http://gnosis.cx/python/

:-).

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From letbetter at ti.com  Mon Sep  8 16:40:00 2003
From: letbetter at ti.com (Letbetter, Jason)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:40:00 -0500 
Subject: Disagree with proposed 2.4 behavior for %x formatting of signed i
	nts
Message-ID: <B028FA2A5D295B4DAB8865FAD974E8F1089F95@dleest06.itg.ti.com>

Consider the following:

>>> print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
__main__:1: FutureWarning: %u/%o/%x/%X of negative int will return a signed
string in Python 2.4 and up
0xC1F2C703

If I understand the warning correctly then the following would happen after
2.4:

>>> print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
-1041053949

I think the printf format should take precedence.  It is obvious that the
programmer wants a hex number displayed.
 
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From messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 24 08:51:56 2003
From: messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com (ataraxia2500)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:51:56 +0200
Subject: newbie script
Message-ID: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>

I wanna do a script that launch a programm xyz and relaunch xyz if it
crashes. what kind of module do I need for such a task?

thanx in advance



From pobrien at orbtech.com  Mon Sep  1 12:08:17 2003
From: pobrien at orbtech.com (Patrick K. O'Brien)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 11:08:17 -0500
Subject: Object Database (ODBMS) for Python
References: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF090708D440@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com> <mailman.1062117540.32184.python-list@python.org> <m2isohs1p0.fsf@orbtech.com> <m2ekz5s17y.fsf@orbtech.com> <pan.2003.08.28.22.07.39.424278@jerf.org> <m2ad9trxjp.fsf@orbtech.com> <3f4f7af6_3@corp.newsgroups.com> <m23cfkgyt5.fsf@orbtech.com> <3f4f9e88_3@corp.newsgroups.com> <m28ypcfbzs.fsf@orbtech.com> <3f523b97$1_8@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2ekz0ij9q.fsf@orbtech.com>

"Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com> writes:

> Patrick-
> 
> I think based on this and your other posts I now understand better
> where you are coming from. Thanks for the explainations and
> comments.
> 
> To try to restate (and better justify) what I now think I see as
> your point of view on this transactional API issue, let me present
> this analogy.
> 
[Analogy snipped]
> 

Your analogy is absolutely correct.  A PyPerSyst transaction
Class/instance follows the Command pattern.  In fact, they were
initial called commands, and later renamed to transactions to
emphasize the fact that the actions taking place inside the command
needed to be atomic and leave the database in a consistent state (half
of the ACID properties needed to be a reliable database).  PyPerSyst
itself provides the isolation (the engine provides this) and
durability (storage provides this).

> To step back a minute, in general, a transactional development
> methodology is in a way a step up from the random flounderings of
> how many programs work, with code that changes the data domain
> potentially sprinkled throughout the application code based, rather
> than cleanly specified in a set of Command or Transaction
> subclasses. So you are sort of proposing generally a step up in
> people's understanding and practice of how to deal with applications
> and persistent data.

Yes!  And I love how you describe this - random flounderings.

> Does this sort of capture an essential part of what you are getting
> at here with your PyPerSyst application architecture development
> strategy? If so, I like it. ;-)

Absolutely.  And I'm glad you like it.  Now if only I had a perfect
model for guaranteeing the integrity and consistency of the state of
Python class instances, we'd be set.  Well, actually, I've got some
ways to do that, I just don't completely like them.

> P.S. The Pointrel System supports abandoning in process transactions
> by sotrign all the data it changes long the way, and being able to
> roll back to this state. But, with an object database as you have
> outlined it, I think this would naturally be a lot more complicated
> -- although perhaps you could adopt the "undo" and "redo" aspect of
> Commands (including stashing the old objects somewhere in case of a
> redo...)

I'm not sure we'd be able to easily support undo and redo in a
multi-user environment.  For a single-user application, this should be
easy.  And I'll probably eventually build in mechanisms to support
this.  But multi-user adds a few complexities.

Commit and rollback would be nice for complex transactions that change
a lot of state where your ability to guarantee the success of those
changes, or test the success as a pre-condition, is difficult.  The
easiest approach, which Prevayler is implementing, is to always have
two copies of the database in memory - one to try out a transaction
and see if it completes, the other to receive only transactions that
successfully completed on the tester.  But that approach doubles the
memory requirements, and we already have high memory requirements
since we keep the entire object graph in memory.  But the beauty of
this approach is that it is simple and foolproof.

Another approach would be for each transaction to keep mementos of
objects that get changed, so they can be restored if an exception is
raised at some point during the transaction.  But I think that will be
too complex and too much to expect from transaction writers, unless I
can come up with support for that in PyPerSyst that makes it easier.

Anyway, just some more thoughts.  Good talking to you.

-- 
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech      http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien
-----------------------------------------------
"Your source for Python programming expertise."
-----------------------------------------------



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Sep  2 23:56:50 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 03:56:50 GMT
Subject: **kwds behavior?
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj3oq2$uj1$0@216.39.172.122>

On 2 Sep 2003 07:52:22 -0700, JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox) wrote:

>Why does the following attempts to pass in keywords arguments not
>work. It would be alot cooler if there was a way to not have to have
>the function defined with the variable name. It really seems to me
>that the 3rd function should work. Does anyone know how to accomplish
>something like this.
>def testKeywords1 (**kwds):
>	print x
>	
>def testKeywords2 (**kwds):
>	locals().update(kwds)
>	print x
>		
>def testKeywords3 (**kwds):
>	locals().update(kwds)
>	def testNested():
>		print x
>	testNested()
>	
>dict = {}
>dict['x'] = 5
># doesn't work
>testKeywords1(**dict)
># doesn't work
>testKeywords2(**dict)
># doesn't work
>testKeywords3(**dict)

A couple of other things that might relate to what you want:

 >>> def testkw(**kw):
 ...     exec 'print x' in kw
 ...
 >>> testkw(x='did it work?')
 did it work?

Guess so, but
 >>> testkw(y='did it work?')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in testkw
   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
 NameError: name 'x' is not defined

Note that that's a NameError, not a KeyError, as in:
 >>> def testkw1(**kw):
 ...     print '%(x)s' % kw
 ...
 >>> testkw1(x='did it work?')
 did it work?

Ok, but
 >>> testkw1(y='did it work?')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 2, in testkw1
 KeyError: 'x'

Yet another way ...

 >>> def testkw2(**kw):
 ...     ns = type('',(),kw)()
 ...     print ns.x
 ...
 >>> testkw2(x='did it work?')
 did it work?

 >>> testkw2(y='did it work?')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 3, in testkw2
 AttributeError: '' object has no attribute 'x'

Or silliness,

 >>> def testkw3(**kw):
 ...     exec """
 ... def foo():
 ...     print x
 ... """ in kw
 ...     kw['foo']()
 ...
 >>> testkw3(x='did it work?')
 did it work?

 >>> testkw3(y='did it work?')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<stdin>", line 6, in testkw3
   File "<string>", line 3, in foo
 NameError: global name 'x' is not defined

So what are you actually trying to do?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tl_nntp at webcrumb.com  Tue Sep  9 11:04:46 2003
From: tl_nntp at webcrumb.com (Tom Lee)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 15:04:46 GMT
Subject: My future Python IDE article
In-Reply-To: <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org> <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f5dec0d@news.comindico.com.au>

I second that.

JEdit is fantastic.

No matter what language I use it for, it never goes against the grain of 
my programming style.

However, it's particularly good for both Python, XML/HTML/CSS/etc. and 
PHP. Java has Eclipse and NetBeans, C/C++ has MSVC/KDevelop/Anjuta 
(although in Linux I use JEdit for C/C++ too!), but nothing compares to 
JEdit for the previous languages.

Only complaint is the startup time - can be a painful wait at times, but 
I love it all the same.

Folding, too, is brilliant. You have to try it to really appreciate it. 
I recommend checking out the folding in 4.2pre4 - different colours for 
different levels of nested folding.

- TL

Hardy Jonck wrote:
> mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
> 
>>Pythonistas,
>>
>>
>>So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
>>list.  I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
>>prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
>>copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
>>
>>Yours, David...
> 
> 
> I recently had a look at Jedit and must say I am impressed. Python
> support via Jython 2.1 - but the extensibility and philosophy that
> comes with Jedit is amazing. Would be nice to have more development in
> it to make it an even better Python editor that it is now. It has
> advanced features, very good code folding, excellent searching, class
> browser, integration with Ctags that works great with Python, regular
> expression cross project search and replace, sftp, ftp, CVS
> integration (GREAT) and integrated DIFF, XML and XPATH, and tons of
> other very handy plugins to do 100% hands off mouseless efficient
> editing.
> 
> Have a look at www.jedit.org and install version 4.1 stable. Install
> Jython from the plugins directory and make shure to set the prefrences
> so that it pre-loads Jython and classes. Then install Sidekick and
> tags. Set Folding mode to Sodekick and that almost completes the
> setup. Now install gruntspud from the plugins directory and you have
> CVS with full integration into the editor.
> 
> Only thing missing is full code completion like PythonWIn offers...
> 
> Sincerely,
> Hardy Jonck




From none at none.net  Thu Sep 18 02:41:12 2003
From: none at none.net (Sami Viitanen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:41:12 GMT
Subject: Setting environment variables
Message-ID: <cscab.12804$g4.258706@news1.nokia.com>

Hello,

Is there any other way to set variables than os.putenv().

Putenv doesn't actually put any values to actual system variables..

I'm trying to set CVSEDITOR variable automatically from script
so that user wouldn't have to set that him/herself. CVS can't use variable
set with putenv().


Thanks in advance.





From mwh at python.net  Thu Sep 25 07:17:11 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:17:11 GMT
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com> <4bh3nv0esljf8pkegog0lc4lmg87siv1oc@4ax.com> <igh3nvoqpv2o7krhpuc12mm7h54mikm8qq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3eky52kc7.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:26:41 +0300, rumours say that Christos "TZOTZIOY"
> Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> might have written:
> 
> >If only math.log(2**64)/math.log(10) worked with longs without
> >converting them into floats first... :(
> 
> And after reading the FM, if only
> 
> def count_digits(x):
>     return int(math.log(x, 10))
> 
> worked correctly for *all* large values, like 10**70...

Um, it does :-)

>>> float(40**200)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: long int too large to convert to float
>>> math.log(40**200, 14)
279.56038792470861

(10**70 is well within the range of an IEEE double).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I really hope there's a catastrophic bug insome future e-mail
  program where if you try and send an attachment it cancels your
  ISP account, deletes your harddrive, and pisses in your coffee
                                                         -- Adam Rixey



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep  3 07:40:44 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:40:44 +0300
Subject: python short conditional?
References: <pan.2003.09.03.00.16.45.270773@countersnipe.com>
Message-ID: <1nkblv4a5f705sjmi5k8b77suga6okgv4t@4ax.com>

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 01:16:45 +0100, rumours say that Pieter Claassen
<pieter at countersnipe.com> might have written:

>I am looking to find a short conditional for python equivalent
>to the perl question mark operator 
>
>statement? if true:else false
>
>Any recommendations on this?

See Python FAQ:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=all#4.16

See also what is true and what is false in Python:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/Booleans.html
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep  6 09:45:04 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 13:45:04 GMT
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours>
Message-ID: <Axl6b.33946$R32.1058522@news2.tin.it>

Basile STARYNKEVITCH wrote:
   ...
> However, contrarily to Michael's belief, it won't surprise me at all
> that some big numerical computations are driven by scripting languages
> (scripts which call big number crunching primitives coded in C or C++
> or Fortran). At least in Europe, several number crunching applications

In the US, too; LLNL financed a lot of Python development (including
the Numeric package and many of the "big number crunching primitives"
that cooperate with it), for example.

> are driven by scripts. Of course, a huge fraction of the CPU time (ie
>>= 98%) is spend in numerical routines coded in Fortran or C. Only a
> tiny fraction of the work is spent in interpreting scripts.

Of the computer's work. yes; for the programmers' work, however (and
often the "programmers" in such cases are actually scientists in
other fields, who need to use computers as tools in their research),
the productivity boost afforded by higher-level languages is still
very considerable (I'm quite sure you realize this, Basile, just
thought it had better be pointed out explicitly anyway, since one
guy who's participating in this thread appear to be quite thick).


Alex




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 24 17:06:33 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:06:33 -0400
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com>

Chris Liechti wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote re:
> > PyThreadState_SetAsyncEnc

> > Presumably somebody will come up with a little extension module or
> > other technique for calling this which will let anyone use it at will,
> > so I'm unclear on why it should be made inaccessible from Python.
> 
> why bother with c, just use ctypes to call the function ;-)

How would one do that?  It would make for an easy way to experiment
with it, in the 0.001% of cases where a non-newbie one might want to 
do such a thing.  ;-)

Is this function available in a DLL somewhere?  I can't find even 
a single reference to that name anywhere in the Python23 directory
tree on Win32 after a fresh install.

-Peter



From park997 at aol.comnotospam  Mon Sep 15 15:00:42 2003
From: park997 at aol.comnotospam (Park997)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 19:00:42 GMT
Subject: irritating problem
Message-ID: <20030915150042.22749.00001062@mb-m23.aol.com>

Hi,

I have a script that runs correctly in IDLE, runs correctly when invoked in the
Command Prompt (Win XP), runs correctly from Komodo, but flashes a black box
too fast to see when the icon is double clicked and produces no output. There
are no error meassages from any of the methods that produce output. All of the
other modules in the same directory (these are imported to the problem module)
work correctly in any start mode.

python 2.3.

Obviously this isn't a disaster, but it "bugs" me. Is there a fix or method of
obtaining diagnostic information on this?

Thanks,

Wendell Cropper



From mirandacascade at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 16:51:06 2003
From: mirandacascade at yahoo.com (Miranda Evans)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 13:51:06 -0700
Subject: minidom sample code
Message-ID: <59e5b87.0309081251.32b31261@posting.google.com>

Seeking sample python script that makes use of of xml.dom.minidom. 
Specifically, would like to see code where xml.dom.minidom is used to
create an output file the contents of which is an XML document.

Ideally, the output file would a simple XML document such as the one
below.

<?xml version="1.0" ?> 
<TrivialRootTag>TrivialContents</TrivialRootTag>

Workstation O/S is Win2K; version of Python is 2.2.

Can anyone point me to a documentation/link/whatever that provides
such sample code?  Thank you.



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 10:30:08 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:30:08 GMT
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <odCbb.139591$R32.4375735@news2.tin.it> <pan.2003.09.22.14.19.53.906000@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <QHDbb.101279$hE5.3561005@news1.tin.it>

jblazi wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:49:24 +0000, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
>> Basically, the change from "x[y]=z" to "x=x[:y]+z+x[y+1:]" is just
>> not "traumatic" enough, in my opinion, to warrant considering this
>> a seriously complicated problem ("not seem simple at all").
> 
> Of course, you are right. The possibility to create a new string dawned
> upon me later when I was already lying in my bed...
> Of course, in this case a lot of activity takes place in the background
> (memory objects have to be allocated and deallocated) and if efficiency
> played a r?le... In this case it does not and your solution is the right
> one.

Yes, you did indicate it was an exercise, so efficiency clearly could
not matter at this micro-level.  If it did I might suggest array.array
or the like.


> In C strings are mutable and so you can work in situ but usually those
> zero terminated strings have their disadvantages as well...

Sure, they're lots of trouble (non-expandable, can't contain arbitrary
bytes, etc).


> Thank you for your help.

You're welcome!


Alex




From sheu at bu.edu  Wed Sep 24 13:21:45 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:21:45 -0400
Subject: pprint and ">>>"
In-Reply-To: <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F71D2A9.5050205@bu.edu>

Hi,

Sometimes, it is find of nice using:
print >> my_file_object, my_variabels
than using the standard f.write.
However, it cannot be done with pprint.pprint.
I understand that i can do it by redirecting the sys.stdout, but isn't 
it nice if I can do something like pprint.pprint >> my_file_object, 
my_dictionary?

BTW, the syntax
print >> my_file_object, my_variables
seems a bit awkward to me.
Isn't it better if we can simply use:
print *whatever_this_is >> my _file_object
just like the way we do in unix shell?

-shuhsien





From news.collectivize at scandaroon.com  Tue Sep 30 17:24:51 2003
From: news.collectivize at scandaroon.com (John Baxter)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:24:51 -0700
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <mailman.1064537919.23612.python-list@python.org> <7h3brt7o2h8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <d7bhnv4u6jak6asrfiv592sq9itt3i1286@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <news.collectivize-69C59B.14245130092003@corp.supernews.com>

In article <d7bhnv4u6jak6asrfiv592sq9itt3i1286 at 4ax.com>,
 Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:04:24 GMT, rumours say that Michael Hudson
> <mwh at python.net> might have written:
> 
> [I, "if only int(math.log(x,10))..."]
> > >> worked correctly for *all* large values, like 10**70...
> 
> [Michael, using a larger number]
> > > Um, it does :-)
> 
> [Tim]
> >> You're not used to answering floating-point questions <wink>.
> 
> [Michael]
> >Or prehaps just conveniently ignoring what "work" means in a given
> >context :-)
> 
> I didn't reply earlier since Tim --how uncommon-- covered the subject
> better (he also corrected my +1 omission/misteak), but I believe you
> should have said: 'conveniently ignoring what "work correctly" means in
> a given context'... ;-)

"Work" and "work correctly" seem equivalent when one is speaking of 
computer programs.  Not so in lots of other contexts.

  --John

-- 
Email to above address discarded by provider's server.  Don't bother sending.



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Tue Sep  2 09:59:55 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:59:55 +0100
Subject: threads and socket question
References: <1165lvgenb2s4lbbjsihcd1uibat1g137u@4ax.com> <postmaster-38280E.21343131082003@news05.east.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <h989lvcbq2bnpc6uofbbkaotbbnd60c64g@4ax.com>

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 01:34:32 GMT, "Daniel T."
<postmaster at earthlink.net> wrote:

>Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>
>> My setup is the following: I have socket s from which I want to read
>> and write. So I made the following set up:
>> 
>> There is a thread whose only job is to read. Any data read (from recv
>> call) is just passed to (some) Queue. This thread is "owned" by a
>> second thread waiting on a Queue for write requests. The thread just
>> pops these from the Queue, and calls the send method from the socket.
>> This thread also takes care of closing the socket or (possibly)
>> handling any exceptions raised due to socket operation. 
>> 
>> So my question is: since I have two threads sharing the same socket,
>> even though one is only reading and the other does everything else, do
>> I have to watch out for any "concurrency" issues?
>> 
>> P.S: This is for learning experience. So it's of no use telling me
>> that I should learn Twisted :-) I may (eventually) get there, but at
>> the moment I feel more omfortable with working with plain blocking
>> sockets.
>
>The first problem I can think of is the one that stopped me. Note the 
>code below... You can't close a blocked socket in python even from a 
>separate thread.
>

Thanks for this piece of info. My experiences with my setup confirm
it. 

I really want to keep the socket-closing in the write thread so my
problem is reduced to be able to order to read thread to die. What I
chose to do is to have it periodically check some exit flag to know
when to exit. I believe this can be done by calling select with a
timeout before the recv blocking call. Back to the docs and
Python-experimenting-mode.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From cnetzer at sonic.net  Mon Sep  1 01:48:50 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:48:50 -0700
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1062395330.1852.63.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Sun, 2003-08-31 at 21:41, Daniel R. Smorey Jr. wrote:
> Why can't I just go to www.python.org and click 
> on Search and then type in split and it bring me to the split() function 
> of the string module?

Not a bad idea.

>   Why does it have to be so hard?

Start up a python interpreter and type:

help('string.split')

To see the whole string module:

help('string')

It also work directly on module and function objects:

import string
help(string)

Finally, the string module is being slowly phased out.  You can use the
string constructor type instead (in Python 2.2 and later):

help(str.split)
help(str)
etc...

-- 
Chad Netzer





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 19:05:02 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:05:02 +0300
Subject: error explanation
References: <13df83a2.0309291345.32db8a2b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mjehnvknj63oa1d7ilrv4jhupo6mlkei76@4ax.com>

On 29 Sep 2003 14:45:44 -0700, rumours say that
malcolm.wood3 at ntlworld.com (Mac Wood) might have written:

>Could someone please explain this error message:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\Python23\time.py", line 1, in -toplevel-
>    time.py
>NameError: name 'time' is not defined
>
>I tried entering the following example:
>
>time.py
>#This programs calculates rate and distance problems
>print "Input a rate and a distance"
>rate = input("Rate:")
>distance = input("Distance:")
>print "Time:",distance/rate

remove the time.py line (it's supposed to name the following lines, not
to be included with them :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Wed Sep 10 17:38:27 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:38:27 GMT
Subject: Heisenberg strikes again!
In-Reply-To: <a82d9823.0309101254.39f8f05@posting.google.com>
References: <a82d9823.0309101254.39f8f05@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <nRM7b.311656$Oz4.100417@rwcrnsc54>

neeson wrote:

> Alright, I'm fairly new to Python, and this one has got me stumped. 
> I've just started to write a cli program that'll use readline, and
> I've attached the relevant bits.
> 
> Here's the mystery:  If I so much as /look/ at the list 'matches',
> readline stops working.  Run the program, hit tab at the prompt,
> you'll get 'one', which is incorrect, as there are in fact four
> possible completions.  Now comment out the line that I've marked
> (which, incidentally, does nothing).  /Now/ it works.
> 
> Is there some very strange side effect to accessing a list element
> that I'm unaware of?  I've tried it in two different versions of
> Python.

No, but there is a side effect of accessing the first element of an 
empty list: namely, Python raises an IndexError exception (i.e. index 
out of range).

> Any elightenment would be appreciated...
> 
> Heath


> 
> import readline
> import sys
> 
> commands = ["one", "two", "three", "four"]
> matches = []
> 
> def comp(text, state):
>     if state == 0:
>         matches = []

Because you haven't used

     global matches

the next statement creates a new list called matches as a variable local 
to comp.  All your matching commands are added to this variable, which 
disappears when comp returns.


>         n = len(text)
>         for cmd in commands:
>             if cmd[:n] == text:
>                 matches.append(cmd)


>     throwaway = matches[0]   # <--- Comment out this line

When comp is called with state == 0, matches is still referring to the 
local list which is not empty (unless there were no matches to the 
text), so this line does indeed do nothing.  However, when comp is 
called with state != 0, this line refers to the global matches list, 
which is empty, so it raises an IndexError, and the following line is 
not reached.

Apparently, readline treats an exception in the completer as equivalent 
to returning None.  In fact, you seem to be relying on this behavior 
implicitly in the line below, because you are not checking whether state 
< len(commands)

>     return commands[state]
> 
> readline.set_completer(comp)
> readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")

David




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Sep 26 14:10:57 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:10:57 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <yu99brt7igy8.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-021DF1.11105726092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <yu99brt7igy8.fsf at tinker.research.att.com>,
 Andrew Koenig <ark at acm.org> wrote:

> Stephen> I doubt the need for exclusive ranges in integer for loops. I
> Stephen> also doubt the need for switching between different range
> Stephen> systems (inclusive, exclusive, half-open). IMO there is more
> Stephen> confusion than anything down those routes.
> 
> Really?  I would expect a common usage to be:
> 
>         for 0 <= index < len(list):
>              do something with list[index]

Isn't that what the new enumerate(list) is for?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From uce at ftc.gov  Thu Sep 18 13:01:19 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:01:19 -0400
Subject: Scaling Tk scrollbar handles
Message-ID: <K96dnU3ln-RTefSiU-KYvg@comcast.com>

None of the online references that I'm using or can find tell you if 
this can be done. It's standard practice in GUI's to have the handle of 
a scrollbar sized to be the proportion of total ammount of viewable data 
to the ammount you can see in the current view region. (I think that 
explains it, you know what I mean.) I have a scrollbar attached to a 
canvas, and it scrolls properly, but it always has a tiny little handle. 
Is there anything I can do about this?




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Sep 22 12:30:17 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:30:17 -0300
Subject: Memory allocation
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FCE@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

How could I know how much memory uses an object?

Something like:

>> a = [66]
>> memused(a)
n

Thanks!


Facundo Batista
Gesti?n de Red
fbatista at unifon.com.ar
(54 11) 5130-4643
Cel: 15 5132 0132






From max at nospam.com  Fri Sep  5 12:50:10 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:50:10 GMT
Subject: Coding Style:  Defining Functions within Methods?
In-Reply-To: <bjaee7$ac4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
References: <70df36e9.0309050837.1660cdf4@posting.google.com> <bjaee7$ac4$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <6936b.7437$x_5.2408@twister.nyc.rr.com>

JCM wrote:
> Generally I also find it cleanest to push functions down into the most
> nested scope possible; it makes it clear that these are helper
> functions and not meant to be called externally.
> 
I love this style and really miss it in other languages...
my 2c.




From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 13:58:33 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:58:33 GMT
Subject: How to pass parameter to a module?
References: <Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkc62g$5k0$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <dnmab.5254$9G2.2643@twister.southeast.rr.com>

I thought about the third module. It doesn't sound good.
I hoped there're some tricks with __dict__, frames and
other __...__ objects.

For now, this is what does the task:

# sub_2.py
''' The documentation will look like this:
     To set the size of dictionary and search depth,
     do before including (default values are shown):
        import string
        string.sub_2_dictionary_size = 10 # in megabytes
        string.sub_2_search_depth = 1000 # in nodes
        string.sub_2_max_responce_time = 100 # seconds
'''
import string # it's used in sub_2 anyway
# parameters
try: _DICT_SZ = string.sub_2_dictionary_size
except: _DICT_SZ = 10
try: _DEPTH = string.sub_2_search_depth
except: _DEPTH = 1000
try: _RTIME = string.sub_2_max_responce_time
except: _RTIME = 100
# now the stuff
def do_the_job():
   return "Processing with dict=%d depth=%d rtime=%d" % (_DICT_SZ,_DEPTH,_RTIME)
# EOF

# sub_1.py
import string # actually, some module, which is used in sub_2
string.sub_2_dictionary_size = 20 # megabytes
string.sub_2_search_depth = 5000 # nodes
# let's leave sub_2_max_responce_time default
import sub_2
print sub_2.do_the_job()
# EOF

M-a-S

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> wrote in message news:bkc62g$5k0$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de...
> M-a-S wrote:
> > I'd like to parametrize a module. That is, to set and pass
>
> Create an additional module sub_2_parameters:
>   # sub_1.py -- main program
>   import sub_2_parameters
>   sub_2_parameters.extern = "OK"
>   import sub_2
>
>   # sub_2.py -- parametrized module, parameter is the 'extern' var
>   import sub_2_parameters
>   try:
>      noway = sub_2_parameters.extern
>   except:
>      noway = 'no extern'
>   # EOF
>
> Note that modules are imported only once so you cannot import sub_2 with one
> set of parameters into one module and with another set of variables into
> another.
>
> Depending on your problem, it might be better to use the builtin execfile,
> because you can pass a dictionary with the parameters to the call.
>
> Daniel





From tjd at sfu.ca  Tue Sep 30 19:13:09 2003
From: tjd at sfu.ca (Toby Donaldson)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 16:13:09 -0700
Subject: getting values from an "exec" statement
Message-ID: <ad32251c.0309301513.1b11a8ce@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm designing an educational application that will run Python code and
check the output against a pre-define answer. I want to use the "exec"
statement to run the code, but I don't know how to get output from it.

For instance, exec works like this:

>>> code = """
for i in xrange(1, 5):
print i
"""
>>> exec code
1
2
3
4

I want to store the values output by the print statement in a list. Is
there anyway to re-direct the output of the exec statement?

Also, it would be nice if exec had a timeout that automatically
haulted code that ran for too long. Is there a standard trick for
this? I expect I would have to run it in its own thread and kill the
thread when it takes too long (which reminds me I don't know anything
about Python threads!).

Toby



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Sep 19 14:50:30 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:50:30 -0400
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
In-Reply-To: <qlbmmvk1in8amgmgc3f426lj4eac7u7uff@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEBDGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim, quoting the standard]
>> For a text stream, its file position indicator contains
>> unspecified information, usable by the fseek function for returning
>> the file position indicator for the stream to its position at the
>> time of the ftell call

[Richie Hindle]
> It still doesn't seem to work as specified:
>
> ------------------------------ peter.py ------------------------------
>
> # Open the file in text mode, read a line, and store the position.
> fp = file('test_data.txt', 'rt')
> line = fp.readline()
> storedPosition = fp.tell()
> print 'Line: %r, file pointer after read: %d' % (line, storedPosition)
>
> # Read some more and print it.
> print 'Read another line from this position: %r' % fp.readline()
>
> # Now seek back and read the same line again.
> fp.seek(storedPosition)
> print 'Another read from the same position: %r' % fp.readline()
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This prints:
>
> Line: '0123456789\n', file pointer after read: 8
> Read another line from this position: '0123456789\n'
> Another read from the same position: '89\n'
>
> I'd expect doing readline/tell/readline/seek/readline to read the same
> line the second two times.  And however you implement tell and seek, a
> tell value of 8 after reading 11 bytes looks pretty weird.

I don't know what you're doing -- there's not enough info here.  I *assume*
this is Peter's original test data but with \r\n line ends replaced by \r.
If so, that's not a legitimate text file on Windows, so all bets are off if
you try to open it in text mode.  You really have to read the C standard to
appreciate just *how* feeble a text-mode file is across platfroms -- you
have to adhere to some very restrictive rules.  In particular, the effect of
any I/O operation on a file opened in text mode is undefined if the file
contains an \r (or any other control character apart from space, tab, and
newline; or any "high bit" character; or the DEL character; even if all
other rules are met, the number of trailing spaces you read need not be
equal to the number of trailing spaces on the line you wrote; then read read
the std for the obscure rules <wink>).  Microsofts defines what happens when
the pair \r\n is used to terminate lines in a text-mode file, but isn't
required to (and doesn't) define anything about what happens if an \r
appears by itself.

> I'd write the same code in C if I had the time, so at least we could
> be *sure* we can blame Microsoft.  8-)

Microsoft's fgets() does the same, provided you feed it a buffer large
enough to hold the largest line in the file.  But if you're not feeding the
program a legit text-mode file on the platform you're using, you've got no
cause for complaint.  Give the test file \r\n line ends and your program
should work as you hoped on Windows (because then it's a legit text-mode
file on Windows).

BTW, the 't' in your 'rt' is a Microsoft extension to C.  't' isn't
recognized on most other platforms.  The default is (alas) text mode, so 't'
isn't needed even on Windows.





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Mon Sep 29 04:46:46 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:46:46 +0200
Subject: Tutor
References: <6kqdb.146$Vb3.97520@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <bl8rho$rn1$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

News wrote:
> Hello. I've just started learning Python a few weeks ago. I'm using
> the free "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with
> Python". I'm half-way through chapter 5 and I've been stumbling on a
> few things. I've been teaching myself so far. I was wondering if
> anyone out there would be able to help me along with this. Maybe help
> explain some things and give me ideas for practice programs that go
> along with what I'm learning. And if you can't help directly, maybe
> someone out there can point me towards somewhere that I can get help.
> ok, I've talked enough. Thank you all in advance.

The Python Tutor list (http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor) seems
to be made for this.

Daniel






From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep  8 00:38:43 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 06:38:43 +0200
Subject: Is there a unicode EOF mark like DOS ascii ctl-z or unix crl-d ?
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m3n0df3ne4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> I couldn't find one. (Hi Martin ;-)

No, there is no need to have one (neither is there a need to have one
for plain ASCII files): The end-of-file is when the file ends. Most
operating systems support a notion of a "file size", and the file ends
when file-size bytes have been consumed.

Why Microsoft decided to use ctr-z in text files is beyond me, it does
not fulfil any useful function. ctl-d on Unix is *not* an EOF mark: No
file ever contains ctl-d (or if it would, it would not be interpreted
as EOF mark). Instead, ctl-d signals the end of data entered into the
terminal (which does not have a pre-determined size), so ctl-d has its
usual EOT semantics in Unix.

So the question would only be meaningful if you had some device that
uses a character stream, instead of a byte stream. I'm not aware of
any such device - if you had one, recycling EOT would probably be a
good idea.

Regards,
Martin



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Sep  4 05:14:08 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:14:08 -0000
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
References: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <vle0j01npmca27@corp.supernews.com>

In article <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA at comcast.com>,
Marc <losnations at comcast.net> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I was thinking about developing a drag and drop application and was curious
>how difficult it is to do. Basically I want to have a set of objects that I
>move around the screen and drop into place.
			.
			.
			.
LOTS of applications--several I've written, I
know--do this sort of thing.  You'll need to
learn about bind(), and most likely the events
  <1>
  <B1-Motion>
  <ButtonRelease-1>
in particular:  you'll teach <1> to start a
drag, <B1-Motion> to display the dragged object
moving around the screen, and <ButtonRelease-1>
to finish the drop.

Have you read <URL: http://
groups.google.com/groups?as_q=drag+drop+tkinter&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python >?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep  8 05:42:46 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 09:42:46 GMT
Subject: exec code with timeout?
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062996311.6727.python-list@python.org> <Xns93EFE34728E26OKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062999372.21845.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qaY6b.29120$hE5.1041098@news1.tin.it>

Graham Fawcett wrote:
   ...
>>preventing scripts from eating up all available RAM or simply never
>>terminating".  Preventing scripts from never terminating is exactly what
>>I am interested in.  (This isn't a halting problem kind of thing -- I
>>just want to unceremoniously kill exec-ed code that doesn't terminate in
   ...
> Hmm... well, again I'd suggest the PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc function. It
> shouldn't be that hard to wrap... I'd try it myself, but haven't made it
> to 2.3 yet.  :(

Nope -- the attacking script can easily use try/except to defeat attempts
to kill it via PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc .  The latter isn't meant for any
"adversarial" situation, but just for potentially _buggy_ threads.


> Or, if you're in Unix-land, how about forking? Let the user code
> run in the child fork, and let the other half take care of the timeout?
> It's easy to kill processes.

That's definitely the best way to go, particularly if you can couple
it with some mechanism such as the BSDs' "jail" concept -- let the
operating system deal with malicious processes (your task in terms of
architecture design then boils down to the inevitable one of defining
the "least-privileges" each given process absolutely HAS to have).


Alex




From matthew at barnes.net  Thu Sep 18 00:19:04 2003
From: matthew at barnes.net (Matthew Barnes)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 21:19:04 -0700
Subject: Where's UserList.ListMixin?
Message-ID: <3a8e83d2.0309172019.74d6fca9@posting.google.com>

This may be a naive question, but since Python 2.3 added a handy
little DictMixin class to its UserDict module it seems to me like
UserList.ListMixin and maybe even UserString.StringMixin should have
followed (although I'm not sure how useful a StringMixin class would
really be).

I'm just curious.  Is there a reason these classes weren't included? 
Is anybody looking into this for Python 2.4?  Should I submit a patch?

Matthew Barnes



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Sep  7 07:27:31 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 07:27:31 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
Message-ID: <vlm5h1e76u5m00@news.supernews.com>

"rt lange" <whiteywidow at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom at 216.77.188.17...
> came across this page searching feedster.
> dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
> but the mockups look very nice.
>
> http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1
>
> main page mockup:
> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main.html
>
> interior page:
> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior.html

I have to agree with the other posters on this thread. I certainly
would not want to read it for very long. I suppose I could ignore
the cute graphics that take too long to download since this is a
marketing oriented design, but the fonts and lack of contrast
are a show-stopper.

Whoever did this design should read at least one of the
books on horrible web page designs.

John Roth





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep  9 11:10:56 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:10:56 -0500
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <200309081520.57743.p@ulmcnett.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
        <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org>
        <87u17nne1a.fsf@pobox.com>
        <200309081520.57743.p@ulmcnett.com>
Message-ID: <16221.60800.972026.992598@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Paul> Just what is the problem with posting long url's anyway?  Just
    Paul> turn off wordwrap, and send. Example of a long url (I have
    Paul> wordwrap off):

    ...

Some intermediate software may still slice the URL.  This sort of thing was
a known problem long before Microsoft knew about the Internet.  It just
wasn't as prevalent as it is today with the propensity of websites to have
long URLs.

Skip





From raims at dot.com  Thu Sep  4 01:49:28 2003
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 07:49:28 +0200
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com>
 <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
 <roy-0F3EF6.00055904092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <871xuxp0gn.fsf@voodoo.fake>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

> How many votes does a language need to get to be elected Governor of 
> California?

It must fight against Schwarzenegger ;-)

-- 
Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
http://loluyede.blogspot.com
rhymes at NOSPAMmyself.com



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep  9 15:06:22 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:06:22 -0500
Subject: Redesign of Python site
In-Reply-To: <_WydnXPHCO6oksOiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
        <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org>
        <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
        <3F5E0171.B68BDE2F@engcorp.com>
        <_WydnXPHCO6oksOiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <16222.9390.817242.32280@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    amk> I envision people wanting information on a specific version first,
    amk> only later going to the more generic items under "documentation".
    amk> Do other people think this would be a good idea?

I think docs are more important than specific versions.  Sure, the first
time they come to the site they'll be looking for "Python 2.3".  But most
times after that they'll want documentation.  The most frequent page I visit
on the site is

    http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/modindex.html

That far outpaces any other page on the site, even the home page, so I
bookmarked so it's one click away.

Skip




From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 16:27:36 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:27:36 +0200
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bj820r$8up$05$1@news.t-online.com> <vlf4qqqqb3s11b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bj878o$nad$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com>
> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de>

> > There is a very old religious law saying: Thou shalt not cause side
>>  effects by a function.
> > There is some wisdom in it but it is easily forgotten with languages
which
> > do not differ between functions and routines.
>
> Like most "religious laws," it's a rule that has a multitude of
exceptions.
> You can't do I/O without having side effects, something that the designers
> of functional languages have learned, sometimes the hard way.

Stream I/O can never be done right in functional languages. The only
solution is to use something like memory mapped files (which I do more and
more ...)

But look at this mess:
      twolines=f.readline()+f.readline()
There are solutions in some languages with _routines_ and
_call-by-reference_ but it it is generally very clumpy.

On the other there is a growing popularity of generators and iterators which
by concept are *heretic*

Kindly
Michael P








From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep 12 07:07:10 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:07:10 +0200
Subject: Can This Code Be Made Faster?
References: <mailman.1063358599.4816.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjs9g8$43e$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"John Abel" <john.abel at pa.press.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1063358599.4816.python-list at python.org...
> I have a problem, in that the following code is sometimes failing.  I am
> stat'ing a list of files, but, sometimes, one of the files may be moved
> by an external process, after the os.path.exists and before the lstat,
> causing the script to fail.  My question, is there anything I can do to
> speed it up, or put in a trap, to stop the stat from failing?


I think best help is with try - except (Ganesan already posted...)
But by all means NEVER use except: without any explicit exception; in this
case
     except OSError:
would be appropriate.

If you by chance are using Windows only, a much better (and much faster)
suport will be given by
      win32api.FindFiles
Of course this is not portable....

Kindly
Michael P





From msurel at comshare.com  Wed Sep  3 14:55:27 2003
From: msurel at comshare.com (bigdog)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 11:55:27 -0700
Subject: Interoperability between VB and Python under ASP
References: <bj46f2$kk2$1@voodoo.volia.net>
Message-ID: <bb536467.0309031055.2fe6a661@posting.google.com>

Max Ischenko <max at ucmg.com.ua> wrote in message news:<bj46f2$kk2$1 at voodoo.volia.net>...
> Hi,
> 
> I've started to develop under Microsoft ASP framework, which allows 
> different lang. used in a ActiveX page. I wonder about possible 
> strategies to use Python modules from VBScript <%%> includes.
> 
> Right now I'm thinking about this approaches:
> - create a COM server in Python to be able to call it from VB.
>    Drawbacks: cumbersome and (probably) slow.
> - pure data exchange. Python code sets some data in global env. that is
>    afterwards read by VB. Drawbacks: very limited in nature.
> - convert all VB pieces that need access to Python modules into Python.
> 
> Have I missed something or could anyone comment on this?
> Discussion is wellcomed.

I've mostly done option 3, converting what I needed to Python. It
results in a lot cleaner code (you can't mix html elements and code
very well, for example, in vb you can put a for loop around a section
of HTML, whereas in Python you can't) and the time it took to convert
the code (not much, really, it's a pretty clean port in most cases)
has been more than paid back in maintainability.

Another thing I've done, rather than just port all the code in a given
piece, is to find things I can modularize and then move only the
pieces to Python that I think make sense. For example, I've got a page
set up that you can dynamically add content to, kind of like a wiki,
but much more structured. The only part that is in Python is the
script that edits the HTML file, as file access and manipulation is so
much easier in Python than in an VBScript. All of the user elements
are either in straight html pages or in asp with vbscript. I post my
results to the Python page, update the file, then Response.Redirect to
the page I'm interested in viewing after the file is updated.

I think your next best bet is creating COM servers, or perhaps using
Python within a CGI app for particular pieces of logic. I would avoid
the data exchange route.

I don't know if this will help, but it might be worth a shot.
http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/ I've never used it myself, I only point
it out as a curiosity I've heard of



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Sep 11 12:15:42 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:15:42 -0700
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
In-Reply-To: <000d01c37870$181e6020$0c02a8c0@Arts>
References: <000d01c37870$181e6020$0c02a8c0@Arts>
Message-ID: <20030911161541.GA2085@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Arthur (ajsiegel at optonline.net):
> I had written:
> 
> >To in fact specifically not be a statistic.
> 
> >Yes, there is something quite American about that viewpoint. God bless.
[ ... ]
> Except that to the extent that statistics indicate a cost to the
> freedom to gun ownership, another cost of freedom has been identified.

I think that /your freedom/ ends where /my freedom/ begins. Until you
can guarantee that your weapon will not be used against me by your
family members or the conqueror thereof, your freedoms to shoot what
you want as a hobbyist and to exercise catastrophically lethal force
in home defense are not compelling arguments.

Want to defend yourself? Learn a martial art. Worried about the guns
in the Bad Guys' hands? Me too. You can bet that when you can't walk
into a gun show, pay cash, and anonymously carry out lethal firearms,
you're going to see a lot fewer firearms in the hands of thieves.

What about my freedom to kill people who inhibit my rise to world
domination? At what point on the spectrum does "freedom" stop
justifying endangering behavior?

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>     http://www.gerrietts.net/
 "Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the 
          systematic organization of hatreds." --Henry Adams




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Sep 28 16:29:47 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:29:47 +0200
Subject: overriding  built-ins
In-Reply-To: <fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5@posting.google.com>
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030928202947.GA22911@nl.linux.org>

dan wrote:
> 1) Is it possible (without recompiling and changing the core Python
> behavior) to write functions that utilize the same syntax as built-in
> functions?  IE, can I create a function that does this:
> 
> >>>printCaps "hello"          #note no parentheses
> HELLO

No. This is not possible.

> 2) Is it possible to do this with the built-in keywords themselves, ie
> override functions such as print?

print is a statement, not a function. Builtin functions can be overwritten.
Statements cannot be overwritten. You can override functions like len, map,
etc. though, but it is not recommended.

Gerrit.

-- 
53. If any one be too lazy to keep his dam in proper condition, and
does not so keep it; if then the dam break and all the fields be flooded,
then shall he in whose dam the break occurred be sold for money, and the
money shall replace the corn which he has caused to be ruined.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 08:51:18 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 13:51:18 +0100
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com> <bjdm21$nr2$1@wheel2.two14.net> <mailman.1062908472.9309.python-list@python.org> <DGB6b.24532$hE5.902016@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1062927617.22452.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ad9g4v95.fsf@pobox.com>

Chad Netzer <cnetzer at sonic.net> writes:

> On Sun, 2003-09-07 at 01:06, Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> > Me, I'd recommend "Dawkins vs. Gould: Survival of the Fittest",
> > by Kim Sterelny.
> 
> Thanks, I had just been wondering if there was a book on this subject,
> after a recent discussion about this topic with my girlfriend.
[...]

That "debate" is so frequently depressing in its astoundingly low
quality that I couldn't bring myself to so much as pick up the book.
Full of straw men, certainly from a bunch of people who think or claim
they've read Dawkins (& co.) but haven't, but perhaps on the other
side too.  They round and round in tiny circles, like some silly
USENET thread.  Mind you, IIRC the "astounding" parts I remember were
mostly from Steven Rose rather than Gould (it's quite a while since I
read all this stuff).


John



From howard at eegsoftware.com  Wed Sep 10 16:13:48 2003
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:13:48 GMT
Subject: Background image in toplevel
Message-ID: <Xns93F2869B93CCFhowardeegsoftwarecom@64.164.98.51>

Is there any way to display a photoimage background in a toplevel/frame?

I tried replacing my topmost widget with a canvas but the ripple effects on 
placement and other widgets got too high.

Is there some way to specify a transparent background on a frame?  Then I 
could overlay a (tranparent) canvas window over the photoimage on the basic 
canvas but leave a frame widget (in the window) for position, placement, 
etc.



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 19 13:46:38 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:46:38 +0200
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
References: <mailman.1063989509.22137.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkfffh$87u$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Leeds, Mark wrote:

> I did more investigation into my previous problem
> and what happens is that my text file has \r for representing
> a new line instead
> of a \n. is there a way to tell the readlines
> function that the symbol for a newline is \r rather
> than \n ? right now the readlines function reads
> the\r as another item in the list and just puts
> everything into one big list because it
> doesn't find any new line characters.
>  thanks. i'm really stuck because
> i can't read my data right now.
>  
>                                                 mark

Try opening the file with the "U" universal newlines flag:

f = file(filename, "rU")
print f.readlines()

I think this can cope with all three newline variants regardless of the
actual platform.

Peter



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Sep 23 00:44:07 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:44:07 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <cbQbb.1674$PT3.277391@news20.bellglobal.com>

"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003 at news.service.uci.edu...
> In article <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
>  "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
> > > Some more looping thoughts - this time on integer for loops...
> >
> > Hi.
> > How about the following:
> >
> > for i in 0...10:
> >     # suite
> >
> > where 0...10 works something like xrange(10).
>
> I can't find the message you're replying to, so am responding here only
> to yours.
>
> I personally am uninterested in an integer for-loop syntax that is
> limited to the unintuitiveness of range and xrange's arguments -- 
> they're great for looping forwards through the indices into a list, not
> so great for almost anything else.  If that's all the loop syntax can
> do, why not just keep the current "for i in range(10):" syntax?

Hi.
Right.

Quote from me:
"""
And, after all of that, you could say, well we already have

for i in range(10):
    # suite
...
and you can use xrange()
...

yada, yada, yada.

Whatever.
"""


> "Explicit is better than implicit."
>

Um. Actually, for i in 0...10 _is_ explicit. It explicitly asks for the
integers from 0 thru 9, just as xrange(10) does, but with different syntax.

"where 0...10 works something like xrange(10). "
me, again

I'm familiar with seeing ellipsis used to denote ranges (from textbooks,
other programming languages, and general every day writings), so, to me it's
looks explicit. (Although, I would usually read it as the numbers from 0 to
10, inclusive). But, again, whatever.

> But anyway, PEP 284 has been kind of moribund since Guido dissed it in
> his Parade of PEPs.  I'm not sure what (if anything) it would take to
> revive it,

Sure. I've no intentions of pursuing this syntax proposal.  The PEP was
brought up. A syntax suggestion was made. I didn't much care for those, so I
made others. My interest ends there.

> but convoluted syntax like "for i in 0...10.by(2):" is
> probably not it.

Right.

"This suggestion ... does not provide step control and I can't think of a
clean way to introduce it ..."
me

the by() suggestion was a demonstration of how I could not "think of a clean
way to introduce" step control for the ellipsis based syntax.

> "for i in 0:10:2:" would be more Pythonic, but has a
> little ambiguity problem ("for i in 0:10:2" without the colon seems like
> it should execute the statement "2" ten times) and again doesn't add
> much in readability or power to what we can already do with range.
>

Right.





From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep  9 12:36:01 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:36:01 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org> <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3F5E0171.B68BDE2F@engcorp.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:06:07 -0500,
>         Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> > Obviously, the links available directly from the front page need careful
> > consideration.  I visit python.org 90% of the time for documentation
> > (though usually through a bookmark to python.org/doc/lib), 5% for PEPs,
> > 5% for links to sf tracker items (using URLs provided in e-mail), and 1%
> > (oops, I'm up to 101%) to download a new Python release.  My needs are
> > probably atypical, though.
> 
> So, are the modified links at http://www.amk.ca/python.org.html
> an improvement?  Note the different sidebar and top navbar links.

I think that's a distinct improvement, although I'd suggest putting
the Documentation section (in the sidebar) _first_ rather than second
after the Versions section.  I'd also move FAQ up to right under "What 
is Python?".  

Although the FAQ has grown a little too large for its current structure, 
I think, more people should spend the time to read the whole thing, and 
perhaps would in time for it to be useful (i.e. before they ask a FAQ) 
if it were more prominent.

(You mention different top navbar links but they look the same to
me, if you're talking about the Home/Search/Download stuff at the top.)

-Peter



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Sep 27 09:26:48 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:26:48 -0400
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1064540736.16016.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YAZd/ks/Kjpc089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.1064540736.16016.python-list at python.org>,
Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>At 05:50 PM 9/25/2003, Stephen Ferg wrote:
>>I have a question that is not directly Python-related.  But I thought
>>I'd ask the most erudite group that I know... :-)
>>When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
>>character?

>Good question. Certainly later than:
>
>Microsoft Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195]
>(C) Copyright 1985-2000 Microsoft Corp.
>
>C:\>cd /samis
>The syntax of the command is incorrect.

   Internally, the routines in the API have accepted '/' as
a path separator for a long, long time.  It's the
command-line processors that kick up a fuss.

    The _mkdir function does not do any translation of
    path-name delimiters.  All operating systems accept
    either "\" or "/" internally as valid delimiters
    within path names.

                  Microsoft C/C++ Run-Time Library Reference
                         version 7.0, with Windows 3.0, 1991


        Regards.        Mel.



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 21 17:51:55 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 22:51:55 +0100
Subject: Passing data out of a Sax parser
References: <fe5nmv0mno1ib23ifekntp3v3u2er5bstt@4ax.com> <SxNab.10403$BS5.7382@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <878yohajyc.fsf@pobox.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

> Tim Rowe:
> > b. Add a parameter to the handler's __init__ method, that takes some
> > sort of mutable object, and put the answer into that object.
> 
> Either that or have startDocument create the mutable object, as
> 
> class MyHandler(xml.sax.handlers.ContentHandler):
>   def startDocument(self):
>     self.count = 0
>   def startElement(self, name, attrs):
>     if name == "spam":
>         self.count += 1
> 
> parser = xml.sax.make_parser()
> h = MyHandler()
> parser.setContentHandler(h)
> h.parse(input)
> print h.count

Works, but integers aren't mutable.


John



From wildgoose at operamail.com  Tue Sep  2 05:00:39 2003
From: wildgoose at operamail.com (David Basil Wildgoose)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 02:00:39 -0700
Subject: Language categories
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <rqy2b.1796$_F1.202013@news20.bellglobal.com> <tyfsmno989n.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <sDJ2b.1909$_F1.271943@news20.bellglobal.com> <vl63bokhnobnee@corp.supernews.com> <bivkor$m70$1@terabinaries.xmission.com> <slrnbl6r4u.vld.neelk@gs3106.sp.cs.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <265d96ac.0309020100.3ce92beb@posting.google.com>

Neelakantan Krishnaswami <neelk at cs.cmu.edu> wrote in message news:<slrnbl6r4u.vld.neelk at gs3106.sp.cs.cmu.edu>...
> REBOL is more interesting. The original interpreter was written by Joe
> Marshall, and he wrote it so that it supported lexically-scoped
> closures (and maybe tail-recursion too?). This makes it count as an
> fpl, in my book. However, the second version was a rewrite that lost
> those features, and as a result it's not an fpl anymore.

I have to disagree.  Here's what is said at the REBOL site
(www.rebol.com):

"Although REBOL is designed for easy learning, it excels in sheer
power. Under the hood (for experts) the REBOL engine is a first class,
functional, symbolic language with a rich selection of built-in
datatypes, object support, incremental refinement, integrated
networking, and automatic storage management. In addition, REBOL is
its own reflective meta language."

Note key words and phrases like "functional" and "reflective meta
language".

Also, the original inventor of REBOL is Carl Sassenrath, (yes, the
Amiga guy).

You're right that the second version is no longer tail-recursive, but
that is a matter for the compiler, not the language, and could just as
easily be levelled at the early Lisp implementations.

I would hazard a guess that Rebol's closest relative is probably
Scheme, so I suppose the opinions of most people will be based upon
whether they consider Scheme to be functional.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep  8 08:02:02 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 06:02:02 -0600
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
In-Reply-To: <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com>
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122>
 <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com>
 <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122>
 <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253>

On Win 2K the Task Scheduler writes a log file that appears to be encoded. 
The first line is:

'\xff\xfe"\x00T\x00a\x00s\x00k\x00 
\x00S\x00c\x00h\x00e\x00d\x00u\x00l\x00e\x00r\x00 
\x00S\x00e\x00r\x00v\x00i\x00c\x00e\x00"\x00\r\x00\n'

My goal is to read this file and process it using Python string processing.

I am disappointed in the codecs module documentation. I had hoped to find 
the answer there, but can't.

I presume this is an encoding, and that '\xff\xfe' defines the encoding. 
How does one map '\xff\xfe' to an "encoding".

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Sep 11 18:34:45 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:34:45 -0400
Subject: list to string 
References: <Km68b.2494$YL.621@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9L68b.3723$Nx6.539818@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Graham Nicholls" <graham at rockcons.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Km68b.2494$YL.621 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Hi.  Sorry if this is really dim, but I'm trying to do something like:
>
> main (args):
>         fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")
>
> and get an error that open is expecting a string not a list.

args[1:] performs a slicing operation which returns a list.
You're asking for all of the elements in the list 'args' except for the very
first (arg[0]). If you only want the second argument, use arg[1]. If you
want the slice, but as a string, use ''.join(args[1:]) (or whatever
seperator you require).

HTH
Sean





From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Mon Sep  8 21:07:30 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:07:30 -0500
Subject: enum in Python
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF090708DEAB@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Scott David Daniels [mailto:Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org] 
> 
> David M. Cook wrote:
> 
> > In article <KF67b.33$fd2.25 at newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>, 
> > Andrew Chalk wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>As a rank Python beginner I've used a dictionary, but 
> >>presumably there is a better way.
> > 
> > 
> > I've seen idioms like 
> > 
> > FOO, BAR, BAZ = range(3)
> > 
> > used.
> > 
> > Dave Cook
> 
> For 2.3 or after:
> 
>      class Enumerate(object):
>          def __init__(self, names):
>              for number, name in enumerate(names.split()):
>                  setattr(self, name, number)
> 
> To use:
>      codes = Enumerate('FOO BAR BAZ')
>      codes.BAZ will be 2 and so on.
[...]

Which is what I would use, however, sometimes you just want to reuse
your C code, so I had a little fun creating the following... Use as:

  from enum import enum
  class LoanTypeCode(enum): 
    """
        enum LOAN_TYPE_CODE {
            UNKNOWN = 0,
            CONSTRUCTION,
            FHA,
            VHA,
            LIVESTOCK = 100,
            MACHINERY_EQUIPMENT,
            FARM_REAL_ESTATE,
            CROPS_PROCEEDS_NEW,
            CROPS_PROCEEDS_OLD,
            DAIRY_PROCEEDS,
        };
    """

  >>> print LoanTypeCode
  enum LOAN_TYPE_CODE(UNKNOWN[0], CONSTRUCTION[1], FHA[2], VHA[3],
LIVESTOCK[100], 
  MACHINERY_EQUIPMENT[101], FARM_REAL_ESTATE[102],
CROPS_PROCEEDS_NEW[103], 
  CROPS_PROCEEDS_OLD[104], DAIRY_PROCEEDS[105])

Note the beautifully discrete values :-)

  >>> print LoanTypeCode.UNKNOWN
  <LOAN_TYPE_CODE: UNKNOWN[0]>
  
.. and enum values know both their name and numberic value (and almost
where they belong...) Almost always better to display UNKNOWN than 0..

-- bjorn

--- enum.py -----
def _docStringData(strRep):
    """Pull out relevant information from docstring... Hex values etc.
left as
       an exercise.
    """
    import re
    _name = ''
    _vals = []
    m = re.match(r'\s*enum\s*([\w_]+[\w\d_]*)\s*{\s*', strRep)
    if m:
        _name = m.group(1)
        strRep = strRep[m.end():]
        matches = re.findall(r'([\w_]+[\w\d_]*)(\s*=\s*(\d+))?', strRep)
        curval = 0
        for name, _, val in matches:
            if not val:
                curval += 1
            else:
                curval = int(val)
            _vals.append((name, curval))
        return (_name, _vals)
    
    raise ValueError("The input header doesn't look like an enum: %s" %
strRep)

class _enumItem(object):
    """Object to represent individual enum values."""
    __slots__ = ['_enumName', '_name', '_val']
    
    name = property(lambda self: self._name)
    val = property(lambda self: self._val)
    
    def __init__(self, enumName, name, value):
        self._enumName, self._name, self._val = enumName, name, value
    def __repr__(self):
        return '<%s: %s[%s]>' % (self._enumName, self.name,
str(self.val))
    def __str__(self):
        return '%s.%s' % (self._enumName, self.name)
    def __cmp__(self, other):
        return cmp(self.val, other.val)

class _enum(type):
    """Enum metaclass..."""
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, clsdict):
        if name in ('enum', '_enum'): # skip metaclass machinery
            return type.__new__(cls, name, bases, clsdict)
        
        if '__doc__' in clsdict:
            if '__init__' in clsdict:
                raise TypeError("Enums can't have __init__ methods")
                
            docstr = clsdict['__doc__']
            className, enumVals = _docStringData(docstr)
            _enumvals_ = {}
            clsdict['__enumvals__'] = _enumvals_
            for name, val in enumVals:
                item = _enumItem(className, name, val)
                _enumvals_[name] = item
                clsdict[name] = property(lambda
s,name=name:s.__enumvals__[name])
                
            klassdef = type.__new__(cls, className, bases, clsdict)
            return klassdef() # oops <wink>
            
        raise TypeError("class %s must have a doc string to be an enum"
% name)
    
class enum(object):
    __metaclass__ = _enum
    
    def __str__(self):
        return self.__class__.__name__
        
    def __repr__(self):
        header = "enum " + str(self) + '('
        # sort by values
        vals = self.__enumvals__.items()
        vals.sort(lambda x,y: cmp(x[1],y[1]))
        strvals = [name + '[' + str(val._val) + ']' for name, val in
vals]
        return header + ', '.join(strvals) + ')'


        




From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Thu Sep 11 11:27:04 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:27:04 -0400
Subject: less OT: Americans love their guns
Message-ID: <000b01c37879$278772f0$0c02a8c0@Arts>

>I am not a philosophical libertarian. But perhaps have some strong ideas
>about the managment of change, and where change should be targetted, >and
how change needs to be justified.

My sensbility here being directly related to my resistance to the change in
the div operator, case sensitivity, and going too far as to the new
python.org front page.

I cannot claim to be *right* on any of these issues.  The sensibilioty
rejects - sort of - a right or wrong classfication on these kinds of issues.
But is not actually conservative and does *not* reject change.  The issues
are targeting change appropriately, and - in some sense - where the burden
of proof must necessarily lie, and certainly -  what constitutes a carrying
of that burden.

Statistics, as brought to these argument - claiming to provide some kind of
defintive basis in providing an answer - often seeming an offense.

Sometimes, an ugly one.

Art





From glingl at aon.at  Wed Sep 17 16:31:21 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:31:21 +0200
Subject: how to write-protect names
Message-ID: <3F68C499.1060604@aon.at>

Hi,

is it possible to "write-protect" a definite
set of names of a module, especially of the
__main__ module?
If so, how?

Regards, Gregor




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 23 18:02:41 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:02:41 -0400
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix> <3F704A91.FA7D31F7@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.16.02.35.675695@riquito.matrix> <bkpsng$knm$1@panix1.panix.com> <pan.2003.09.23.21.09.35.146080@riquito.matrix>
Message-ID: <3F70C301.F64DDBCA@engcorp.com>

Riccardo Attilio Galli wrote:
> 
> curiosity: what is "zie" intended to mean? It is maybe slang for he/she ?

A Google search using "what is zie" turned up a page one above this one:

  http://english.cla.umn.edu/GraduateProfiles/KSurkan/4403/dictionary.html

-Peter



From danielk at aracnet.com  Thu Sep 18 10:18:34 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:18:34 -0700
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8dfjmvkmdvpob813cofdvtouogssi1dp85@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:16:03 +0300 (EEST), Mickel Gr?nroos
<mickel at csc.fi> wrote:

>I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
>is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty

 'ping external_ipaddress' would be worth looking into. I'm not sure
if a computer can recognize its own ip when it's disconnected as I
haven't really tried it.

Daniel Klein



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 09:26:56 2003
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:26:56 +0200
Subject: Mutable strings
In-Reply-To: <20030922125024.GE32482@unpythonic.net>
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <2ZBbb.100213$hE5.3539928@news1.tin.it> <20030922125024.GE32482@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <200309221526.56542.aleaxit@yahoo.com>

On Monday 22 September 2003 02:50 pm, Jeff Epler wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 12:31:58PM +0000, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > But, there IS one!  So, hat's wrong with it...?!
>
> People seem to love to have literals for things.  Otherwise, they feel
> that a type is second-class.

Sure.  I have no problem deeming "mutable strings" (array of bytes)
to be "second-class" in some vague sense, since their use is so rare
and the need for literals of that type even rarer; lacking literals for,
e.g., sets.Set "troubles" me far more;-).

I do keep daydreaming of some "user-defined semiliteral syntax"
such as, e.g. <identifier>{<balanced-parentheses tokens>} to
result in a call to (e.g.) <identifier>.__literal__ with a list (or other
sequence) of tokens as the argument, returning whatever that
call returns.  But perhaps it isn't that good an idea after all (it
does imply the __literal__ classmethod or staticmethod doing
some sort of runtime compilation and execution of those tokens,
and opens the doors to the risk of some seriously nonPythonic
syntax for such "literals-initializers").


Alex





From hjwidmaier at web.de  Mon Sep 22 06:51:31 2003
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 03:51:31 -0700
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e990e29.0309220251.51fa648d@posting.google.com>

Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064086468.9586.python-list at python.org>...

> Mutable strings are one thing that I missed, initially, when I first star
> ted 
> using Python.  After a while, as the "Pythonic" way of doing things sank 
> in, 
> I realised that Python doesn't *need* mutable strings.

Mutable strings come to *my* mind whenever I have to play with huge
binary data.  Working with tens of megabytes is inherently somewhat
slow.

> Python strings (and integers and floats) are all immutable for a very goo
> d  
> reason:  dictionaries can't reliably use mutable objects as keys.

All understood. But then, I don't want to use my 32-MB binary blob as
a key.

> however, once I fully 
> understood the % (percent) string operator, and the ability to efficiently
> convert strings into lists and back, my anxiety went away.   These cover 
> most usage of strings that might convince you you need mutability.

Converting said blob 'efficiently' to a list is something that I
certainly would not call 'efficiently' - if not for the conversion
itself, then for the memory consumption as list.

I don't think strings are immutable because they ought to be that way
(e.g. some CS guru teaches that "mutable strings are the root of all
evil"). They're immutable because they allow them to be used as
dictionary keys. And it was found that this doesn't affect the
usefulness of the language too much.

Still, I can see a use for mutable strings. Or better, mutable binary
data, made up of bytes. (where 'byte' is the smallest individually
addressable memory unit blabla, ... you get the meaning. Just to not
invite nit-pickers on that term.)

> "explicit is better than implicit".

Yes, definitely: Let there be another type.

Byte-twiddlingly yours,
Hans-J.



From fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw  Wed Sep 17 12:01:37 2003
From: fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (Fortepianissimo)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 09:01:37 -0700
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
Message-ID: <ef08387c.0309170801.4b299cf7@posting.google.com>

I know I can do things like

s=Set(range(1,11))
s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))

But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a list which then must
be converted back to a set. Any tips? Thanks!



From mpyle at legato.com  Wed Sep 10 17:36:44 2003
From: mpyle at legato.com (Michael Pyle)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:36:44 -0700
Subject: Heisenberg strikes again!
Message-ID: <96F3EC4BDF504540BB9715CBE9DACB8B02833635@pa-mail1.legato.com>

A couple of things, first I think you want comp() to return matches[state]
not commands[state]. Second, inside of comp() you need to tell python that
you want the global variable matches and not the local one that gets created
when state == 0.

This version seems to work properly:

#!/usr/bin/python

import readline
import sys

commands = ["one", "two", "three", "four"]
matches = []

def comp(text, state):
    global matches
    if state == 0:
        matches = []
        n = len(text)
        for cmd in commands:
            if cmd[:n] == text:
                matches.append(cmd)
    throwaway = matches[0]   # <--- Comment out this line
    return matches[state]

readline.set_completer(comp)
readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")

while 1:
    try:
        line = raw_input("> ")
    except EOFError:
        print "\n",
        sys.exit()
    print ": %s" % line


--Michael Pyle
--Legato Systems, Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: google at elesi.org [mailto:google at elesi.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 1:54 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Heisenberg strikes again!

Alright, I'm fairly new to Python, and this one has got me stumped. 
I've just started to write a cli program that'll use readline, and
I've attached the relevant bits.

Here's the mystery:  If I so much as /look/ at the list 'matches',
readline stops working.  Run the program, hit tab at the prompt,
you'll get 'one', which is incorrect, as there are in fact four
possible completions.  Now comment out the line that I've marked
(which, incidentally, does nothing).  /Now/ it works.

Is there some very strange side effect to accessing a list element
that I'm unaware of?  I've tried it in two different versions of
Python.

Any elightenment would be appreciated...

Heath

ps In terms of being useful, this program doesn't make any sense.  I'm
not trying to get it to work, I'm looking to understand why the
commented line affects the rest of the code.


#!/usr/bin/python

import readline
import sys

commands = ["one", "two", "three", "four"]
matches = []

def comp(text, state):
    if state == 0:
        matches = []
        n = len(text)
        for cmd in commands:
            if cmd[:n] == text:
                matches.append(cmd)
    throwaway = matches[0]   # <--- Comment out this line
    return commands[state]

readline.set_completer(comp)
readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")

while 1:
    try:
        line = raw_input("> ")
    except EOFError:
        print "\n",
        sys.exit()
    print ": %s" % line
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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From gcraib at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 02:24:32 2003
From: gcraib at hotmail.com (Gordon)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 23:24:32 -0700
Subject: Python exercises
References: <3d19203b.0309162207.153b9922@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3d19203b.0309172224.14065606@posting.google.com>

Cheers for your help guys. It was much appreciated.

Gordon



From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Tue Sep 30 12:24:18 2003
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:24:18 +0000
Subject: xml.dom.minidom question
Message-ID: <3f79ad4b$0$10696$ba620e4c@reader2.news.skynet.be>

I'm using xml.dom.minidom, I get some data by using 
obj.getElementsByTagName("name")[0] then I have an object, but how can I 
get the data between the tags ? I could do .toxml() and then strip it 
away. But is there a better way maybe a function made for it ?
Also is it possible using the xml.dom.minidom module to create modify an 
xml file ?




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Sep 11 16:57:00 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:57:00 +0100
Subject: metaclasses for type comparison
References: <pan.2003.09.11.01.50.58.897682@webone.com.au> <GBR7b.415613$uu5.75083@sccrnsc04> <pan.2003.09.11.04.48.46.966122@webone.com.au> <eppstein-B61455.11450111092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <q6o1mv0tt1lgnhmmcvig9926rmuimc60he@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:45:01 -0700, David Eppstein
<eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>In article <pan.2003.09.11.04.48.46.966122 at webone.com.au>,
> Simon Burton <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Both. Well, aha, "issubclass" makes my implementation
>> of ge/le and friends a bit silly. Actually i was annoyed 
>> with "isinstance", it seems like it should be part of the syntax 
>> (eg."<="). Look at this: "issubclass". It has 10 chars!!
>
><= is supposed to be a total ordering, so it is not a good idea to use 
>it for partial orders such as subclass hierarchies.

Is it?  I never came across such a supposition, which in itself says
nothing because I have very little experience anyway, but what about
set inclusion in the sets module which can be written as <=?

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From mark at diversiform.com  Thu Sep 25 17:58:03 2003
From: mark at diversiform.com (mark)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:58:03 -0700
Subject: Python for CGI scripting
Message-ID: <000001c383b0$18acb3c0$5501a8c0@markxp>

I am beginning to get interested in how I can use Python in place of
something like Java for Website scripting.  Are there any books on this,
or any tutorials on the Web I could read?  Any help is appreciated.
 
- Mark
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep  8 12:43:00 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 12:43:00 -0400
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <c718a6cf.0309072024.5b78b14e@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062997392.14538.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1062997392.14538.python-list at python.org>,
Graham Fawcett  <fawcett at teksavvy.com> wrote:
>
>Rather than throw stones, I have created a *brand new design* design for 
>Python.org. I am certain that will satisfy both the technical users and 
>the suit-wearing investigators. It borrows the time-honoured stylings of 
>the old Python site, and blends them with some upscale business moxy.
>
>Take a look:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/mlcv

Many people, me included, won't follow tinyurl links; please provide a
standard URL, too.

>Sorry, there's no comments page. Please send your opinions to the 
>marketing SIG.

DO NOT USE marketing-python for web site issues.  USE pydotorg-redesign.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From jroznfgre at jngpugbjreQBGbet.cy  Mon Sep 15 07:38:41 2003
From: jroznfgre at jngpugbjreQBGbet.cy (JZ)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:38:41 +0200
Subject: embedding python code in html, like PHP
References: <mailman.1063566798.31909.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <059bmvc506fhk7cilpnpcjhg54qoopjn9e@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:33:57 -0400, python
<python at sarcastic-horse.com> wrote:

>Is there a python module that will allow me to embed code into an html
>document, sort of like php?

Yes, of course. Try: http://spyce.sourceforge.net

-- 
JZ



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep 29 16:23:35 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:23:35 +0200
Subject: append log file
In-Reply-To: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <20030929202335.GA8671@nl.linux.org>

Tom wrote:
> I have a log file and of course I want to add the new information to the 
> end of that log file. Unfortunately I always delete the old information 
> and only append the current info.

>        LogFile = file(filename, 'w')

You should use 'a' instead of 'w'. 'a' means 'append'. 'w' always means
overwriting the content.

> How can I add the new info without deleting the old info?
> I tried the modes 'a' and 'a+' but they both didn't work. Actually the 
> data was totally unreadable! It was kind of messed up. :-( I don't know why.

What did you try with 'a' exactly? It should work!

Gerrit.

-- 
128. If a man take a woman to wife, but have no intercourse with her,
this woman is no wife to him.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From mal at lemburg.com  Tue Sep 16 17:57:22 2003
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:57:22 +0200
Subject: how to build a list of mx.DateTime objects from a start and end
 date?
In-Reply-To: <6pvemvgr4hmd2fqgnltdum7b5g8ti6a7cn@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1063742662.14136.python-list@python.org> <6pvemvgr4hmd2fqgnltdum7b5g8ti6a7cn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F678742.4090605@lemburg.com>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:02:53 -0400 (EDT), rumours say that
> python at sarcastic-horse.com might have written:
> 
> 
>>I want to make a list of mx.DateTime objects that cover all the monthly
>>intervals between two points.  For example:
>>
>>
>>>>>import mx.DateTime
>>>>>nov1999 = mx.DateTime.Date(1999, 11)
>>>>>mar2003 = mx.DateTime.Date(2003, 3)
>>>>>alldates = mk_list(startdate=nov1999, enddate=mar2003)
>>>>>alldates
>>
>>[ ... a bunch of mx.DateTime objects including and between the startdate
>>and enddate ...]
>>
>>How would I do something like this?
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the exact names of the mx functions, but what I
> would do, would be:
> 
> create an empty list
> set an mx.DateTime object to the start date
> while the mx.DateTime is less or equal to the end date:
>  append it to the list, add one day to it
> 
> Add some parentheses and you got the python code :)

Not the fastest, but the easy to read:

from mx.DateTime import Date, RelativeDate

def daterange(startdate, enddate, delta=RelativeDate(months=+1)):
     l = []
     date = startdate
     while date < enddate:
         l.append(date)
         date += delta
     return l

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Software directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 16 2003)
 >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ...         http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! ::::





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep  9 08:19:52 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 05:19:52 -0700
Subject: Jython class names
Message-ID: <1063109992.3f5dc568d5160@mcherm.com>

Robin Becker writes:
> [...] Is the above test robust or should
> I always be using == for testing class names?

Simple rule. ALWAYS use "==" for comparing strings, NEVER use "is". The
only exception is if you are working on the internals of the string
class, or perhaps writing some subclass of string with wierd behavior.
The behavior of "is" is undefined for all immutable built-in types --
not "undefined behavior" in the sense of the C standard (computer may
grow legs and wander out of the room if you do this), but "undefined"
in the sense that comparing two integers or two strings with "is" MAY
return True, or it may return False, and no promises are made as to
which way it will go.

By the way, Java has the exact same issue... in Java you should ALWAYS
compare Strings using ".equals()" instead of "==", or the behavior is
undefined. Unfortunately, in Java, you have to remember to use the
awkward syntax ("a.equals(b)") instead of the simple syntax ("a == b"),
while in Python you just use the simple syntax ("a == b") instead of
having to remember to use the special syntax ("a is b").

Actually, there are very few good reasons to use "is" in Python. Being
minutely faster is _NOT_ a good reason (show me a real program where
THAT kind of optimization has any measurable effect!). Convention is
a half-way decent reason ("x is None" is often preferred over "x == None").
But you'll hardly ever go wrong by using "==" instead of "is".

-- Michael Chermside




From msajec at ieee.org  Tue Sep 23 18:14:54 2003
From: msajec at ieee.org (Mike S.)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 15:14:54 -0700
Subject: Compiling informxidb-1.3 on python2.2?
References: <bc2ee265.0309221612.37ed0840@posting.google.com> <slrnbmvjva.t30.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <bc2ee265.0309231414.5689a323@posting.google.com>

> 2. Untar, run configure
Unfortunately, the trouble starts here at step 2.  By any chance do
you have both python1.5 and python2.2 installed?

root at pe informixdb-1.3]# ./configure
loading cache ./config.cache
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes
checking for python... (cached) /usr/bin/python
checking for --with-informix... /opt/informix
checking for esql... (cached) /opt/informix/bin/esql
checking for --enable-thread... no
checking for --enable-shared... yes
creating ./config.status
creating Makefile
creating ext/srcdir
creating ext/Setup
cp: cannot stat `/usr/lib/python1.5/config/Makefile.pre.in': No such
file or directory
creating ext/Makefile
make: ./Makefile.pre.in: No such file or directory
make: *** No rule to make target `./Makefile.pre.in'.  Stop.
[root at pe informixdb-1.3]#
:

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbmvjva.t30.rmunn at rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>...
> Mike S. <msajec at ieee.org> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Has anyone had success compiling the informixdb-1.3 module under
> > python 2.2?  It seems the absense of makefile.pre.in in python 2.2
> > causes the break under py2.2. Is there an easy way around this.  I've
> > heard rumors of a manual method, but have been unable to track down
> > details.  Any help is very much appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Mike
> 
> Here's the step-by-step notes I wrote for myself when I had to do
> exactly that back in May:
> 
> Steps in installing the informixdb module:
> 
> 1. Download informixdb source from
>    http://starship.python.net/crew/sturner/informixdb.html
> 2. Untar, run configure
> 3. Edit ext/Makefile: change CFLAGS (line 100) to include
>    -I${INFORMIXDIR}/incl/esql
> 4. Cd into ext directory
> 5. Run "esql _informix.ec" to generate _informix.c file
> 6. Cd back into parent directory
> 7. Run make
> 8. Copy informixdb.py and ext/_informixdb.so into
>    /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/
> 
> I hope this helps. I did this install on a Red Hat machine that had the
> Informix SDK installed, so I had the esql command available. If you
> don't have esql available, then I'm not sure what you'll need to do.
> 
> Good luck!



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Sep 17 15:01:57 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:01:57 +0200
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
In-Reply-To: <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75>
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org> <slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net> <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75>
Message-ID: <3F68AFA5.5080102@mxm.dk>

Fred Pacquier wrote:

> Yes, that's a wonderful feature. Recently though, I've wondered a couple of 
> times : is there an easy way to substitute with both local AND global 
> variables ?...

It can often be a good idea to create an adapter/pattern for string 
substitutions. Then the wrapper can "massage" the dict values before 
they go into the string.

Here only a simple version is needed though (untested).

class Wrapper:

     def __getitem__(self, key):
          return locals().get(key, globals[key])


'Some string sub %(some_var)s' % Wrapper()


regards max M




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Sep  7 13:05:57 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 17:05:57 GMT
Subject: Coding Style:  Defining Functions within Methods?
References: <70df36e9.0309050837.1660cdf4@posting.google.com> <bjb0ss$nvl$0@216.39.172.122> <bjep73$522$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <bjfohl$rme$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:11:15 +0000 (UTC), JCM <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>> I like defining nested functions except for the fact that a definition is executable code
>> in itself, and will be re-executed each time the outer function or method is called. I'm
>> not sure how long MAKE_FUNCTION or MAKE_CLOSURE take to execute, but IWT it must mean allocating
>> and glueing together the dynamic elements necessary for a distinct function/closure instance,
>> and then disposing of them at some point on/after their going out of scope, vs. e.g. just locating
>> a sibling method.
>
>This doesn't need to be slow--it's up to the implementation to try
>to be as smart as possible.  A compiler can do lambda-lifting to
>transform a program with nested functions to one without, so there
>really is nothing inherently slow about nested functions.
Agreed, but python is very dynamic, so "as smart as possible" may cost
more overall than calculatedly "dumb" in many cases. As it stands, the way
you code it will be pretty much the way it happens, so there will be some cost
to nesting functions. I just don't know how much without timing it. ... resisting ...
temptation ... 

Succeeded, for now ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Sep 26 16:29:41 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:29:41 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu> <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003@news.service.uci.edu> <5L%cb.13662$yD1.1524835@news20.bellglobal.com> <mailman.1064604518.1923.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Cj1db.13721$yD1.1534841@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Chad Netzer" <cnetzer at sonic.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064604518.1923.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 11:42, Sean Ross wrote:
>
> > > I was questioning the feasibility of the implied semantics.
> >
> > Fine. Take it up with the person who proposed the idea.
>
> You proposed it (hear me out).  You are missing David's point.  In
> addition to whatever semantics a general reverse iterator might have, he
> is saying that the itertools iterators have an implied additional
> semantic of not (necessarily) needing to fully expand an iterable in
> memory to operate on it, as a general ireverse() would probably have to
> do.  So, having ireverse potentially use up VAST quantities of memory,
> in order to work, doesn't quite fit into the itertools philosophy.
>
> That is the point he is making, and it is a specific comment on your (I
> believe; others have probably proposed it as well) suggestion of an
> ireverse() in itertools.
>
> Now, my response to David's point is that currently, cycle() may also
> require enough extra storage to remember an entire iterated sequence, so
> the itertools philosophy is not a hard rule.  Still, ireverse() would
> imply some real devilry under the covers...
>
> -- 
> Chad Netzer
>
>

Hi.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Yes, "others have ... proposed it as well". I was merely interested in the
appearance of the code, not the underlying implementation. I was not aware
that the name would imply more than the other suggestions simply because it
was housed in itertools. But then that's not really the point, I suppose:
The main point is the "implied additional semantic", regardless of the
function's location. Yes? OK. Fine. I was not concerned with semantics when
I made the suggestion, only sugar, so I couldn't see where David was coming
from. Sorry for the confusion.

Sean





From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Mon Sep 15 09:57:21 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 06:57:21 -0700
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
References: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com> <d2f38965.0309150133.4aef2253@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0309150557.37661282@posting.google.com>

follower at iname.com (Follower) wrote in message news:<d2f38965.0309150133.4aef2253 at posting.google.com>...
> > Of course, now that I think about it, I could have also written:
> >         self.assertEqual (foo.has_key ('bar')), 0)
> 
> ObMinimalism attempt:
> 
>       self.failIf(foo.has_key('bar'))

That's not really minimalism (ObMinimalism=Obfuscation Minimalism?
That even less!). That is actually The way to do it. You can just
read it out loud and it makes sense immediately.



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 10 03:27:05 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:27:05 GMT
Subject: CGI -- generating images -- \x0A always added!
References: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bjm9h6$mms$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <dnA7b.17518$ip5.1284781@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Thank you!
M-a-S

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message news:bjm9h6$mms$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:05:51 GMT, "M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  # untested ...
>  sys.stdout.write('Content-type: image/gif\n\n') # should be the same
> >
> >print data,
>  sys.stdout.write(data)
>  sys.stdout.close()
> >
> HTH. It should be easy to try. Let us know.
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Sep  4 12:33:01 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:33:01 +0200
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bj7pft$ofl$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Stephan Diehl wrote:
> Once in a while, I get bitten by the fact, that mutating list methods
> such as 'append' or 'extend' return None instead of the (mutated)
> list itself. Is there a compelling reason for that? I googled around,
> but didn't find anything about this.
> Thanks
>
> Stephan

The reasons described for sort ()
<http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-doesn-t-list-sort-return-the
-sorted-list> also apply to append and extend.

Daniel






From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 26 14:22:26 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:22:26 -0700
Subject: Access to database other web sites
References: <b125f336.0309260753.189000d8@posting.google.com> <87n0crbi8z.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bl1vrs$78jem$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| IIUYC, what you're contemplating is called "web scraping"
| ....

John .... 

    I did a bit of web scraping over the past week end
    for a friend that is interested in Lotto numbers .... 
 
    The Lotto numbers were readily available on the web
    and presented as well-formed and readable HTML tables .... 

    The primary problem I found up front was to be able
    parse and transform this data into something
    that Python, or any other language, might be able
    to cope with for subsequent analysis .... 

    Since the number of records that I was dealing with
    in this case was relatively small, only a couple of thousand,
    I could manage the initial data transformations 
    using my genetically encoded EyeBall parser, 
    a text editor, and a couple of one-off Python scripts ....
    
    The first step in each case for the source files 
    was using HTML Tidy to ... 

        "clean up the horrid HTML you'll find on the web "

    I'd like to empashize for the benefit of the original poster
    that the initial data parsing will probably entail a fair amount
    of non-trivial work and that the subsequent data analysis
    and reporting will seem almost trivial by comparison ....  

    Thanks for posting the info regarding different approaches,
    as I think it will be useful for me when I get around
    to replacing my EyeBall parser with something more effective ....  
     
-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep  6 16:17:03 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:17:03 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MPOdna7Mo8NY3ceiU-KYuA@comcast.com>

"Jonathan Aquino" <Jon_Aquino at shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7 at posting.google.com...
> Two reasons I cringe when I see self as the first parameter of
method
> declarations (i.e. "def methodname(self, ...)" (I don't mind self in
> the method body)):
...
> 2) The number of parameters in the method call is one less than the
> number of parameters in the method declaration.   I'm annoyed when I
see
> this because I want the rules of the language to be obvious (in this
> case, a one-to-one mapping). I would be embarassed to have to
explain
> this to a beginning programmer.

Properly understood, consistency is what we have now and what the
proposal would break.  As others have said and as I further explained
in another response just posted, the full method function call is
klass.meth(inst, *rest) with a 1 to 1 matching of args and params like
all other function calls.  Deleting 'self' as an explicit param would
introduce an inconsistency that would have to be applied to all
function defs (see other post if not clear why).

The main virtue of the inst.meth(*rest) abbreviation, with klass made
implicit, is not just to save typing the klass name but to push
determination of which 'klass' to the runtime inheritance tree,
thereby saving much more programmer work.  (When using classes from a
library, the programmer may not even know which superclass has the
method.)  It also automatically propagate inheritance tree changes to
all method calls, which also saves programmer work.

Terry J. Reedy





From dryroasted_99 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 11:58:59 2003
From: dryroasted_99 at yahoo.com (cricket)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 08:58:59 -0700
Subject: Python lexical scanner
Message-ID: <ea50ddb9.0309250758.12c92987@posting.google.com>

i need help with Python lexical scanner for this assignment, i have
create a scanner using the Flex scanner generating tool.  The
requirements of the scanner are as follows:

1) Accept input via stdin (standard input).
2) Return output via stdout (standard output)
3) Recognize tokens of the Python programming language
3.1) Tokens are grouped into the following categories:
	Newline
	Indent 
	Identifiers
	Keywords
	Literals
	Operators
	Delimiters
For INDENT tokens, the format should be

<#> - INDENT - <indent level>


i need help with INDENT,Literals and Newline every time i used \n for
newline it did not work i even used [\n] still did not work.
The scanner should output the tokens discovered in the form:

<#> - <token category> - <token spelling>
for example
10    keyword    while or if



Thank you



From josevnz at newbreak.com  Thu Sep 11 11:02:16 2003
From: josevnz at newbreak.com (Jose Vicente Nunez Z)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 11:02:16 -0400
Subject: Problem with custom extension: help needed
Message-ID: <1063292536.32110.30.camel@linux0037>

Greetings,


I wrote a couple of custom dummy extensions in Python (one a pure Python
and the other a C) and i managed to compile and install them without a
problem:

[josevnz at linux0037 TestNative]$ make
python2 setup.py build
running build
running build_py
creating build
creating build/lib.linux-i686-2.2
creating build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/test
copying src/python/test/Dummy.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/test
copying src/python/test/__init__.py -> build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/test
running build_ext
building 'test.NativeDummy' extension
creating build/temp.linux-i686-2.2
gcc -DNDEBUG -O2 -g -pipe -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -D_GNU_SOURCE -fPIC
-fPIC -DMAJOR_VERSION=0 -DMINOR_VERSION=0 -I/include
-I/usr/include/python2.2 -c src/c/dummy.c -o
build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/dummy.o
gcc -shared build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/dummy.o -L/lib -lm -o
build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/test/NativeDummy.so

So far the RPM installation looks ok too and seems to be than the
installed files are on the proper location:

make rpm
....
moving build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SRPMS/python-TestNative-0.0-1.src.rpm
-> dist
moving
build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/RPMS/i386/python-TestNative-0.0-1.i386.rpm ->
dist

[root at linux0037 root]# rpm -ihv
/home/josevnz/python/TestNative/dist/python-TestNative-0.0-1.i386.rpm
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]
   1:python-TestNative      ###########################################
[100%]

[root at linux0037 root]# rpm -ql python-TestNative
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/test/Dummy.py
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/test/Dummy.pyc
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/test/NativeDummy.so
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/test/__init__.py
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/test/__init__.pyc


But when i run a custom script that uses both extensions i got the
following error:

[josevnz at linux0037 TestNative]$ ./scripts/Test.py
./scripts
/usr/lib/python2.2
/usr/lib/python2.2/plat-linux2
/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk
/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/gtk-2.0
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/test
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./scripts/Test.py", line 18, in ?
    import test.Dummy
ImportError: No module named Dummy
[josevnz at linux0037 TestNative]$


The script code seems normal to me:

#!/usr/bin/env python2
#
# Hello world to test native interfaces in Python
#
# Fix the path
import os.path
import sys
new_path="/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/test"
new_path=os.path.abspath(new_path)
sys.path.append(new_path)
debug=1

if debug:
for path in sys.path:
print path

import test.Dummy
import test.NativeDummy

argument1 = "Test string argument"
argument2 = 600000
dumber = test.Dummy.Dummy("really dumb")
test.NativeDummy(argument1, argument2)


Here is my setup.py file:

#!/usr/bin/env python2
#
# Hello world to test native interfaces in Python
#
from distutils.core import setup, Extension

VERSION=0
RELEASE=0

extension1 = Extension('test.NativeDummy',
                    define_macros = [('MAJOR_VERSION', VERSION),
                                     ('MINOR_VERSION', RELEASE)],
                    include_dirs = ['/include'],
                    libraries = ['m'],
                    library_dirs = ['/lib'],
                    sources = ['src/c/dummy.c'])

setup (name = 'python-TestNative',
       version = '0.0',
       description = 'My practice native test with Python.',
       author = 'Jose Vicente Nunez Zuleta',
       author_email = 'ZZZZZ',
       url = 'XXXX',
       package_dir = {'' : 'src/python'},
       packages = ['test'],
       long_description = '''
My practice native test with Python.
Hope this works.
''',
       ext_modules = [extension1])

I'm using Python 2.2 on RedHat7.2

What do i need to fix so Python can load my extensions?

Thanks in advance,


-- 
Jose Vicente Nunez Zuleta (josevnz at newbreak dot com)
Newbreak LLC System Administrator
http://www.newbreak.com





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep 19 18:04:20 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:04:20 -0400
Subject: changing environment variables
References: <bkfsk4$sk9$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <vmmvbv6up5073b@news.supernews.com>

"Fred Lionetti" <lionetti at bioeng.ucsd.edu> wrote in message
news:bkfsk4$sk9$1 at news1.ucsd.edu...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me how to change an environment
> variable from python.  I know you can view variables through os.environ,
but
> changing the dictionary doesn't seem to change the systmem variable.
Thanks
> for the help!
>
> -Fred

Look at the thread "Setting Environment Variables" that started
yesterday in the early morning.

John Roth
>
>





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Sep 27 12:47:14 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:47:14 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it> <ullsa5hui.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <vnbfp91ot9dt47@news.supernews.com>

"David Abrahams" <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:ullsa5hui.fsf at boost-consulting.com...
> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> >
> > So, given an arbitrary struct, with fields (generally) of different
> > types, you can iterate field by field?
>
> Ah, no.  A tuple in C++ is a different thing, and much more like a
> Python tuple: http://www.boost.org/libs/tuple
>
> > That's basically what the "heterogeneous tuple" is supposed to be
> > equivalent to, in the "party line" I was relating
>
> Well, that's just nutty.  We can make a much better analogy to a
> struct in Python with the usual class hacks.  But even then, we can
> arrange to iterate the attributes.
>
> >  (although the names to go with the fields are only present in a FEW
> > such tuples, such as those returned by modules time and stat,
>
> Whaa??  Are they subclassing tuple?  Nope, time.struct_time is not
> even a tuple.  It's just the struct hack with a tuple-like repr()
>
> >>> time.localtime()
> (2003, 9, 27, 12, 10, 43, 5, 270, 1)
> >>> type(time.localtime())
> <type 'time.struct_time'>
> >>> time.struct_time.__bases__
> (<type 'object'>,)

Not exactly. It's an object that can be subscripted like a
sequence, so it looks like a tuple for the most common
use cases. I haven't looked at the code, so I don't
know how far they went in putting in the remainder of
tuple behavior, though.

The subscripting and slicing is the key point here, though.
That's what makes it backward compatible. It's not an
extended tuple, and I doubt if it has most of the tuple
methods.

Frankly, I prefer to call it a data object, rather than
a "struct hack." Calling it a data object means that
it might grow other useful behaviors in the future. I'm
not sure about time, but I could appreciate methods
in stat that apply the access and modify dates to another
file in one operation.

>
> > as of now; more general tuples still haven't grown the ability to
> > access fields by name, in Python).

And they most likely won't. It's easy enough to create
a data object that implements the basic part of the sequence
protocol.

John Roth

>
> -- 
> Dave Abrahams
> Boost Consulting
> www.boost-consulting.com





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Sep 12 09:56:53 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:56:53 -0400
Subject: Can This Code Be Made Faster?
References: <mailman.1063358599.4816.python-list@python.org> <ou1xumz4s0.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <Ifk8b.3949$Nx6.608082@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Ganesan R" <rganesan at myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:ou1xumz4s0.fsf at andlx-anamika.cisco.com...
> >>>>> "John" == John Abel <john.abel at pa.press.net> writes:
[snip]
> ======
> fileTimes = []
> for fileName in fileList:
>     try:
>         fileTimes.append(
>             (os.lstat(os.path.join(rootPath, fileName)).st_mtime,
fileName)
>         )
>     except:
>         pass
>
> ======



def getFileTimes(fileList, rootPath):
    # using a function can speed things up (I seem to recall)
    fileTimes = []
    # use aliases to save some look-up time inside loop
    append = fileTimes.append; lstat = os.lstat; joinPath = os.path.join;
    for fileName in fileList:
        try:
            append((lstat(joinPath(rootPath, fileName)).st_mtime, fileName))
        except OSError:
            pass
    return fileTimes


I don't know if function composition would help speed (you'd have to
timeit.py),
but it might help readability:

# from "Python Cookbook", pg. 467
def compose(f, g, *orig_args, **orig_kwds):
    def nested_function(*more_args, **more_kwds):
        return f(g(*more_args, **more_kwds), *orig_args, **orig_kwds)
    return nested_function

def getFileTimes2(fileList, rootPath):
    fileTimes = []
    append = fileTimes.append
    lstat = compose(os.lstat, os.path.join)
    for fileName in fileList:
        try:
            append( (lstat(rootPath, fileName).st_mtime, fileName) )
        except OSError:
            pass
    return fileTimes


HTH
Sean





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Sep 23 13:53:17 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:53:17 -0400
Subject: pop3 email header classifier?
References: <GmZAOKA6Uya$Ew2E@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NiIc/kKkXcQf092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote previously:
|Is there a python tool that can be made to delete these from my POP3
|mail box rather than let my client reject?
|I know about spam-bayes etc, but these things are over 120k each and it
|seems pretty pointless to download them (as well as taking about an
|hour).

I do exactly this myself.  For my article (about a year ago now) on Spam
filtering, for IBM developerWorks, I developed my own little custom
tool.  I've refined it over time, but it remains kinda hackerish and
un(der)documented.  Still, I'd be happy to share with anyone
interested... especially if anyone wants to make something nice out of
it for distribution.

The idea of what I do is a hodgepodge.  But the general idea is that I
use [poplib] to download ONLY the headers.  Those messages that are
convincingly spam based on that get deleted without me ever needing to
download bodies.

As a first line of defense, I have a collection of blacklist and
whitelist patterns (I only use strings and globs, not regexen; though
the latter would be easy to add).  These look at specific headers fields
in which patterns might occur (or at the whole header, if I wish).

But the next line of defense is the usual naive Bayesian style.  The
wrinkle here is that I do not use "words" in the headers for analysis,
but rather trigrams (sequences of three characters).  I believe that for
headers-only, this is more accurate, although I have not rigorously
tested this.  Things like routing IPs and spam mail clients are hard to
pick out by whole words, but trigrams do some magic.

The other feature of my 'spamfilter' tool is that it knows nothing at
all about specific mail clients.  It just sits daemon-like, and
periodically deletes stuff it doesn't like.  I check mail from a lot of
different clients, on a lot of different machines; so for me it would be
inconvenient to have the filtering tied to one particular mail
client/machine.  My thing just runs and kills, even when I'm out of
town, and checking for internet cafes.

Yours, David...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep 18 01:14:22 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 07:14:22 +0200
Subject: Mandrake Linux 9: Why isn't bsddb working?
References: <bka45f$q6rg1$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063820907.15026.python-list@python.org> <bkb385$r8u2n$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m3vfrqy8y9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Dfenestr8" <falseaddy at here.org> writes:

> > You probably don't have the necessary -devel RPM installed.
> That might have been true while I was using the rpm package.
> 
> But currently I'm using the source package Python-2.3.tgz.

That package does not include the BSDDB header files. Instead, you
need to install those header files from your system's CD-ROM. As Skip
explains, the package containing them most likely has the string
"-devel" in its name.

Regards,
Martin




From danielk at aracnet.com  Sat Sep  6 14:21:11 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:21:11 -0700
Subject: [2.3] object does not appear to be a reserved word
Message-ID: <v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8@4ax.com>

Is it potentially dangerous to use the variable 'object' in code?

Thanks,
Daniel Klein



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 22 02:51:21 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:51:21 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0309212224.1ca9edeb@posting.google.com>
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no>
	<bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com>
	<299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com>
	<bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<38ec68a6.0309212224.1ca9edeb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6E9BE9.5080509@ghaering.de>

Asun Friere wrote:
> "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message news:<bkkusk$pvi$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...
>>The usage of SZ has only been eliminated in the recent change of
>>the amtliche Rechtschreibung.
> 
> And replaced with what?  ie. is there now a single capital for SZ?

? (sz) has not been completely eliminated. After *short* vocals it has 
been replace with ss (Ku? => Kuss, Flu?, => Fluss). But after *long* 
vocals, it is still used (Ma?, Gru?, ...).

-- Gerhard

PS: I was quite disappointed with the reform of German ortography. I'd 
have favoured much more radical steps, like elimination of 
capitalization of the noun.




From skepsis at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 15:09:07 2003
From: skepsis at blueyonder.co.uk (Adrian Smith)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 12:09:07 -0700
Subject: Where? run directory
Message-ID: <37152603.0309291109.4f16d4b9@posting.google.com>

On a windows system.
I'm trying to get a Mcmillian created program to be 'independent' but
the first thing I need to do is find out where the program is being
run from, not the shortcut but the generated exe. This is where I keep
all the set-up files that I need to access.
Currently I have a fixed directory but don?t want to write anything
into the registry.
Is there a reg setting though that gives the address of the last run
program (presumably my program) or something like a working directory
setting.
I don?t want to have to search for the program through the directory
structure as that would be very time consuming.

Any Ideas out there would be very welcome
Thanks



From erick_bodine at attbi.com  Fri Sep 12 11:26:51 2003
From: erick_bodine at attbi.com (erick_bodine at attbi.com)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 08:26:51 -0700
Subject: Debug python programs
References: <bjpn2s$8bh$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <mailman.1063284197.17837.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b3d0189f.0309120726.4a8b148f@posting.google.com>

I have found a combination of the logging and optparse modules to be a
very effective alternative to #1 (Both come standard with 2.3 or you
can download/install them yourself).  That way I just hand my script
--debug, sprinkle my code where I want with log.debug("message") and
voila! I get debug messages and the code looks much cleaner.

I can also do the same with whatever modules I create and import by
calling getLogger() at the top of the module
ie. log = logging.getLogger("auto_test") 

import logging
from optparse import OptionParser

p = OptionParser()
p.add_option("", "--debug", action="store_const", const=1, default=0,
            dest="debug", help="Print out debug information")

log = logging.getLogger("auto_test")
handler = logging.StreamHandler()
    
if opts.debug == 1:
    log.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
    format = logging.Formatter("%(asctime)s %(levelname)-3s
[%(module)s:%" \
                                "(lineno)d] %(message)s")
else:
    log.setLevel(logging.INFO)
    format = logging.Formatter("%(asctime)s %(levelname)-3s
%(message)s")
        
handler.setFormatter(format)
log.addHandler(handler)    

Gotta love the snake!

--ERick


Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063284197.17837.python-list at python.org>...
> * York (yorklee70 at yahoo.com) wrote:
> > Hi, anybody,
> > 
> > Would you please recommend some good softwares/methods for 
> > tracking/debugging python codes.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > York
> 
> You've got lots of options.
> 
> 1) Your standard insertion of "print" statements throughout the code.  A
> lot of times, this is good enough to get the job done.  I typically set an
> instance variable named DEBUG for each class that I create (in __init__,
> set self.DEBUG = 0 or 1).  Then I have lots of
> if self.DEBUG:
>     print "whatever" #insert debug statements here
> It's not the most elegant thing, but man, has it come in handy when you
> don't need a full-blown debugger.  (Segue into number 2)
> 
> 2) Python comes with a pretty good debugger built in.  Here are the docs:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-pdb.html
> 
> 3) pychecker.  I know, I know, I know - it's not a debugger.  But if you
> point it at your code, it'll inspect it and can help you uncover some
> mistakes that can bite you in the rear.
> 
> 4)  trace.py.  Never used it, but it's in the standard distribution now
> under Tools/scripts.  (I'm including this line item since you mentioned
> "tracking".  I guess this is what you mean?)
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> Jeremy Jones



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 10 10:55:28 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:55:28 +0200
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> ... and here is (roughly) what I'd like to be able to do...
> 
>>>> def Inc(ref p) :
> ...   p += 1
> ...
>>>> x = 1
>>>> Inc(x)
>>>> x
> 2
> 

> Any thoughts?

Obviously, your example could easily be rewritten to

def inc(p):
    return p + 1

x = inc(x)

and a similar function with two by-ref parameters would still be readable:

x, y  = inc2(x, y)

So here's my question. How many functions are there in your *real* code that
could benefit from, say three or more by-ref parameters?
Hint: for me it comes close to 0 :-)

By the way, this is strictly from a user perspective, I trust the Python
developers to overcome the implementation issuses, *if* there is a
significant usability improvement.


Peter



From meinmailfilter at gmx.de  Fri Sep 19 03:27:42 2003
From: meinmailfilter at gmx.de (HHaegele)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 00:27:42 -0700
Subject: Exception in Threading
Message-ID: <e956b5f1.0309182327.4c633cf5@posting.google.com>

Hello,
what does this exception mean. I don?t have any idea where to start
searching for the mistake, can you give me some hints , please.

   Exception in thread Thread-1:
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "E:\dSPACE\ControlDesk\Python\Lib\threading.py", line 376, in
__bootstrap
    self.run()
  File "E:\dSPACE\ControlDesk\Python\Lib\threading.py", line 364, in
run
       apply(self.__target, self.__args, self.__kwargs)

Thank you
Haegges



From rainerd at eldwood.com  Sat Sep 27 00:44:39 2003
From: rainerd at eldwood.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 04:44:39 GMT
Subject: Now that rexec is gone...
Message-ID: <XA8db.597231$o%2.276974@sccrnsc02>

Now that rexec is gone, is there any code or information available on
executing Python in a restricted environment?  And before I roll my own
solution, exactly where the security holes in rexec anyway?

(I know one way of getting a restricted environment: butcher the Python
interpreter by removing everything that's even remotely dangerous, use
Python only for restricted execution, and do everything else in a C++
program that embeds the butchered Python interpreter.  I'd like to avoid
doing that, for obvious reasons.)


-- 
Rainer Deyke - rainerd at eldwood.com - http://eldwood.com






From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Sep 21 16:57:40 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:57:40 -0700
Subject: math.exp(complex)
References: <eppstein-78B907.13085621092003@news.service.uci.edu> <ENnbb.10075$Uv2.662@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <eppstein-C6A607.13574021092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <ENnbb.10075$Uv2.662 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,
 "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

> > So why not math.exp(complex)?
> 
> Use the cmath module for complex ops:

Thanks, but then my next question is, why are math and cmath different 
from each other?

And, is there any important difference (e.g. in numerical accuracy) 
between cmath.exp(x) and math.e**x ?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From grante at visi.com  Fri Sep  5 19:32:56 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 23:32:56 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <vli387c9mm140a at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:

>> So that there's no difference between a function and a method.
>>
>> Simplicity and orthogonality are good things -- despite what
>> C++ proponents thing.
>>
>> > Hence my comment that requiring it is more complex than not
>> > requiring it.
>>
>> No, it's more complex the Java/Ruby way, since you have to have
>> two sets of rules for what a name means depending on whether
>> you're inside a "normal" function or a method.  In Python
>> there's just one set of rules -- mostly.
> 
> As I said earlier, it's quite possible to define it so that there
> is always an instance of some kind; whether that's an instance
> a class or the module itself.

I don't follow.  You're talking about defining a keyword that
always refers to the first parameter passed to a function?  And
the declared parameters would refer to the 2nd through Nth
parameters?  What if the keyword isn't used in the function
definition, then do the delcared parameters refer to the 1st
through Nth?

> I think my comments have shown that you can reduce the amount
> of scoping / name space rules noticably.

Compared to what?  It sure sounds like you're introducing more
rules than there are now.  How would you propose reducing the
number of rules?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Somewhere in Tenafly,
                                  at               New Jersey, a chiropractor
                               visi.com            is viewing "Leave it to
                                                   Beaver"!



From batraraj at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 13:09:45 2003
From: batraraj at hotmail.com (Raj Batra)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 10:09:45 -0700
Subject: Streams causing heap crash using Python C-Extensions
References: <ee04f1ee.0309161604.2f13c59b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ee04f1ee.0309180909.17e7cc90@posting.google.com>

Just a follow up - It appears that the crash isn't related to
just C++ i/o streaming. I tried using the fopen/fclose (e.g for logging)
and again repeated calls from python to the code causes the same
_CrtCheckMemory() error.

E.g.

void void Switch::circuit(U8 c)
{
    if (!_filename) return;

    FILE *out = fopen(_filename, "a");

    if (!out) return;

    time_t t = time(0);
    fprintf(out,"%s\n   %s%s\n", asctime(localtime(&t)), "Header", "Log stuff");

    fclose(out);

}

Another person solved the problem by using cout and then in python
redirected stdout to a file. Then all calls to the cextension
forced cout to write to a file. I prefer not to go down that road.

Any thoughts appreciated as to what may be going on.

Thanks,

Raj


batraraj at hotmail.com (Raj Batra) wrote in message news:<ee04f1ee.0309161604.2f13c59b at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I've created a dll that you can import into python. The function
> calls an ostringstream class. Calling this function repeatedly in python
> will cause a Microsoft Visual C++ Debug Library error:
> 
> Debug Assertion Failed!
> Program: C:\Program Files\Python22\python.exe
> File: dbgheap.c
> Line: 346
> 
> Expression: _CrtCheckMemory()
> 
> Here are snippets of the code:
> 
> // Method called by python via a PySwitchObject
> static PyObject * pyCircuit(PySwitchObject * self, PyObject * args)
> {
>     int circuit;
> 
>     if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &circuit))
>     {
>        // Error handling... 
>     }
> 
>     self->_switch->circuit((U8) circuit);
>     Py_INCREF(Py_None);
>     return(Py_None);
> }
> 
> // Called by pyCircuit method above. Multiple calls to this method
> // yield a heap assertion.
> void Switch::circuit(U8 c)
> {
>     std::ostringstream close;
> 
>     close << "Some formating...";
> 
>     // Use the close method - doesn't really matter.
> }
> 
> 
> The error is always within the constructor or destructor of ostringstream and
> in the file called xmutex.cpp (implements mutex lock for iostreams) which
> calls the malloc/dealloc functions.
> 
> I have tried other streams such as fstream, and get similar behavior.
> Switching to a char buffer[] and sprintf is my current work around the
> ostringstream issue.
> 
> Any thoughts about what is going on?
> 
> I'm using Python2.2.2, with Visual C++ 7 (.NET). The error occurs using
> both pythonwin and the standard command line python.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Raj



From my at mail.ru  Mon Sep  8 07:02:33 2003
From: my at mail.ru (Kerim)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:02:33 +0400
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com> <g_Y5b.25276$R32.778757@news2.tin.it> <74e674c13888643bf15a72e800c9d8ed@news.teranews.com> <Fxf6b.20653$hE5.755579@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3f5c61cb@shknews01>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:Fxf6b.20653$hE5.755579 at news1.tin.it...
> Chris wrote:
>
> > LOL
> >
> > thanks for the heads up on Boost
>
> You're welcome.
>
>
> > I have just downloaded Swig and am beginning to explore that, So boost
> > also sounds like a good idea.
>
> Personally, I prefer SWIG when what I have to interface to is basically
> C code.  In that case, SWIG does have the advantage of being able to
> interface a C library to _several_ HLLs and VHLLs.  But for C++ I never
> really got the hang of it, while Boost and pyste are a snap to use (for
> Python, which coversa basically all I need).
>

And you don't consider boost::python too slow?

Kerim





From wolof at freemail.hu  Fri Sep 12 13:02:13 2003
From: wolof at freemail.hu (White Wolf)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:02:13 +0300
Subject: Standards in Artificial Intelligence
References: <bjnqsa$snd$1@news.astound.net> <3f61f9ce@news.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <bjsu6m$6i8$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>

Stop these off topic posting to comp.lang.c++ or prepare to look for a new
service provider.





From me at no.where  Mon Sep 29 13:28:13 2003
From: me at no.where (mike)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:28:13 -0400
Subject: embedding python and new-style classes
Message-ID: <bl9q3d$3lo$1@houston.jhuapl.edu>

Hi All,

I have some "new-style" classes written in Python that I would like to embed
inside a C++ application (somewhat grudgingly - if I had my way, the whole
thing would be written in Python).  Anyway, I've done this once before, but
that was with "classic" Python classes.  In that case, I used
PyDict_GetItemString to get a reference to the class I wanted and then used
PyInstance_New() to create the instances.

With the new-style class, the thing I get back from PyDict_GetItemString
appears to be a type reference (rather than a class).  So instead of using
PyInstance_New(), I tried using PyType_GenericNew() (the API seemed
analogous).  However, it doesn't look like the __new__ or __init__ methods
of my underlying Python object are being invoked.  I don't have a lot of
experience with this, so I'm not sure if I've simply made a mistake or
whether I'm going about this all wrong.  If someone could tell me the proper
API calls for  instantiating a new-style class, or point me to an example,
I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,
mike








From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 12:56:33 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:56:33 +0300
Subject: Barcode generator for Python?
References: <mailman.1064348557.16937.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i4j3nvgcubbfsn1l8gippu29k2oj4he4q1@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:21:45 -0700, rumours say that jennyw
<jennyw at dangerousideas.com> might have written:

>Does anyone know of a barcode generator for Python?  I'm looking to do
>this on Windows. It would be nice to find something free, but that's not
>necessary (so long as it's reasonable).  It doesn't have to be
>Python-specific, either, so long as I can call it from Python.  I'd love
>to hear any suggestions.

I have found various free truetype fonts in the past with various
encodings.  Would a font be helpful?
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep 30 10:41:16 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:41:16 -0400
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <DYecnbE8ncWnXOiiU-KYvA@comcast.com> <s4pbnv4gkl84hs1bqcvjjuuk3dv6iiod55@4ax.com> <blb73b$a8fai$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <BsKdncaTlYuQC-SiU-KYjA@comcast.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> wrote
in message
> If you want the gory details:

Thank you for the nice explanation of why slices currently behave as
they do.

Terry J. Reedy





From stephane at harobed.org  Wed Sep  3 19:24:10 2003
From: stephane at harobed.org (Harobed)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:24:10 +0200
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.03.23.24.03.438382@harobed.org>

Le Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:32:42 -0700, ulysses a ?crit?:

> Hi,all
> 
> I use wxPython make a bittorrent client. I find wxPython very slow and
> use many many memory.
> When app start, it need 19MB memory. I only use common GUI components.
> Python is a really good
> programming language. But how to do a small,smart, efficency GUI in
> win32,it's a big question.
> 
> I need make GUI,core code is bittorrent code. I can't change it.it's
> really good code.
> 
> I read book 'Python Programming on Win32' ,I get following idea. I
> test it.
> 
> 1. Use wxpython ,it's successful,but very slow .
> 
> 2. use python for delphi. I test it, but it need embed python code to
> delphi. So need
> change original code.Actually I don't know how to change .it's big
> project.
> 
> 3. User win32com, make a com server by delphi. com server have form.
> make python code
> as com client.  I make a com server and invoke the server by
> pythonwin. but the form
> can't show. :(   anyone do it ,could you share you code to world.
> 
> 4. use pythonwin. mfc or win32gui framework. I check the demo code,
> it's very complex.
> you know I hate MFC. it's a joke. i like VCL so much. 
> 
> 5. I have a another idea. use wxWindows (c lan) build a GUI. embed
> python code .
> or embed wxWindows code to python by SWIG. I have't test it. if you
> have do it.
> Please tell us.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Ulysses
> ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn

You have tested pygtk ? It's slow on win32 ?



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 09:21:43 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:21:43 +0100
Subject: Reportlab Image object opens filehandles
References: <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <CDcRXnAnbHY$EwUf@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1 at hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>, Michael Schmitt
<nomail at nomail.com> writes
>Hello.
>
>I am trying to build a pdf document using:
>---
>from reportlab.platypus.flowables import Image
>lst = []
>for filename in imageFiles:
>    I= Image(filename, width= 300, height= 300)
>    lst.append(I)
>---
>Creating an Image object seems to open a filehandle, so if the size of 
>imageFiles increases, I get "IOError: [Errno 24] Too many open files" on a 
>Solaris machine, where the number of simultaneously opened filehandles 
>seems to be limited to roughly 255.
>
>Is there a way to produce a pdf document with a large number of images 
>without running into the problem of too many open filehandles?
>
>Thanks for any hints.
>Michael
>

We've recently begun changing the code for images to assist in a port to
jython. I believe the problem still exists.

in the ImageReader __init__ we have code like

                #detect which library we are using and open the image
                if sys.platform[0:4] == 'java':
                        from javax.imageio import ImageIO
                        from java.io import File
                        self._image = ImageIO.read(File(fileName))
                else:
                        import PIL.Image
                        self._image = PIL.Image.open(fileName)

I guess the problem here is that we don't open or close the file
explicitly in our code. I think that we could delay opening the image
until it's actually needed. PIL's open doesn't seem to explicitly close
its files.

If a document had 300 images we'd currently have all those file pointers
open before rendering started and the Image object could be thrown away.

Unfortunately the reportlab.platypus.Image flowable class want's to open
the image in it's init so there wouldn't be much delay unless we push
the laziness in there as well.

I will copy this into the reportlab-users list for others to comment on.

>

-- 
Robin Becker



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Sep 27 02:20:39 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 08:20:39 +0200
Subject: Is there an extension library?
References: <mailman.1064582556.9949.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3y8wabvm0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Letbetter, Jason" <letbetter at ti.com> writes:

> I'm creating Python extensions for several c/c++ components.    I'm using
> swig to create the extensions.  The biggest challenge so far is working with
> the c args between Python and the Python extension.  Is there a 3rd party
> library of extension helpers that assist in representing c-types between
> Python and c?  Are there any tips and tricks?

I suggest not to use swig, or any tools - atleast not until you fully
understand how to use these tools (I, for one, don't know how to use
swig, so I don't use it).

> 1) Refrencing and derefrencing:
> For example, condsider this c api:
> 
> void foo_alloc(void** handle_ptr);
> void foo_use(void* handle);
> 
> In c &handle.  How to get pointer to pointer in Python?
> In c *handle_ptr.  How to derefrence a pointer in Python?

I recommend to wrap this in a Python object type:

typedef struct{
  PyObject_HEAD
  void *handle;
} PyFoo;

Then, in PyFoo_New, invoke foo_alloc, and implement a method PyFoo_use
of the PyFoo objects.

> "TypeError: CharArray___setitem__() argument 3 must be char, not int"
> In c, buf[i] = (char)i, is implicit.  How do I do it in Python.  Why doesn't
> Python make this conversion implicitly?

Because in Python, characters are *not* numbers (unlike in C). In
Python, characters are strings of length 1.

Again, if you want to store chars in setitem: don't use swig, but
write it yourself.

> 3) It seems like I'm doing something unatural with my Python extension.  It
> seems someone else may have already figured out the best way to transform c
> arguments between Python and Python extensions genericly.

The best way to transform a C library into a Python extension is to
write the extension module by hand.

Regards,
Martin



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 18:15:50 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:15:50 +0200
Subject: print and trailing white space
References: <20030918232501.4f2ab362.max@fr.fm>
Message-ID: <bkdas5$usv$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Maxime Biais wrote:

> I know how to print a string without the trailing newline with a coma
> like :
> 
> print "hello word",
> 
> but this example add a white space after the string :(
> 
> Do you know how to avoid this white space without using write()
> 

>>> class Out(object):
...     def _set_softspace(self, value):
...             pass
...     def _get_softspace(self):
...             return False
...     softspace = property(_get_softspace, _set_softspace)
...     def write(self, s):
...             sys.stdout.write(s)
...
>>> out = Out()
>>> print >> out, "a", "b", "c"
abc
>>> print >> out, "x",
x>>>

It's possible, but I'd rather go with write().
And, please, never ever substitute sys.stdout with a similar object.

Peter




From smory at ptdprolog.net  Mon Sep  1 10:34:22 2003
From: smory at ptdprolog.net (Daniel R. Smorey Jr.)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:34:22 -0400
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <7h3oey43djh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <7h3oey43djh.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <GtGdnbhN65Nyxc6iXTWJkw@comcast.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:
>>I'm really lost on why it's so hard to find anything when it comes
>>to me looking up a particular function in Python.  My example would
>>be the split() function of the string module.
> 
> 
> You mean you weren't born knowing what that did?  Sheesh, kids these
> days... <wink>.

haha, yeah, there's only one problem with knowing that function so well, 
some crazy programmers change the variable order.  Take a look at php's 
split() and python's split().  The order's are different and believe me, 
split() was only a small example of problems I've had with python 
documentation so far.  I'm working on a Zaurus problem with PyQT at the 
moment.  I know "some" C, not a lot though and have never worked with 
QT.  Man is it hard to find documentation on PyQT.  I found a great 
online book, but of course it's only a book, can't possibly have every 
feature and every snippet of PyQT.  So, since there is virtually no 
documentation on it, I have to use the C documentation and just convert 
it over.  Which I'm finding isn't really that hard since Python is such 
an object-oriented language.

My main problem is I love learning new languages.  However, my boss 
loves me getting my work done also.  If I had a place where I could go 
to find partially what I needed 70% of the time, then I'd like the 
language even more.  Python hasn't been that way so far.  But I'm 
learning and thanks to all the posts here, I'll have a better idea of 
where to find this documentation.

Thanks all...

> 
> Cheers,
> mwh
> 




From nick.keighley at marconi.com  Thu Sep 25 04:06:48 2003
From: nick.keighley at marconi.com (Nick Keighley)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 01:06:48 -0700
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
References: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com> <bkroq8$8ud$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr> <8ad2cfb3.0309240530.19029a98@posting.google.com> <6f83nv47k9m7qm4pace4lvfdfaqmof47ei@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8ad2cfb3.0309250006.40ea12d0@posting.google.com>

Rene Pijlman <reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid> wrote in message news:<6f83nv47k9m7qm4pace4lvfdfaqmof47ei at 4ax.com>...

> http://www.cs.rpi.edu/courses/sysprog/sockets/sock.html

looks handy!



From jblazi at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 21 15:59:29 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:59:29 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de> <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122> <bkim08$f8i$1@news.hccnet.nl> <pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000@hotmail.com> <bkkrau$2uaqf$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.21.19.59.28.937000@hotmail.com>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:40:30 +0200, Ulrich Petri wrote:

> def mastermind(word, guess):
>     if len(word) != len(guess):
>         return "Error"
>     ret = ["-"]*len(word)
>     counter = 0
>     for lw, lg in zip(word, guess):
>         if lw == lg:
>             ret[counter] = "x"
>         else:
>             if lg in word:
>                 ret[counter] = "."
>         counter += 1
>     return "".join(ret)

Thx.
The problem with this may be that for example

mastermind('xxaxx','ayayy')

returns 

.-x--

but I should like to have --x-- instead (at least I think so).

JB



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Mon Sep 29 04:33:50 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:33:50 GMT
Subject: write a file "copy" program in Python for Unix and Windows...
References: <rmMdb.366088$2x.112007@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <O7Sdb.128803$bo1.83224@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Ben Kial:

> I need to write a program to "copy" files and preserved the files'
> atime, mtime, ctime, file permissions. I also need to have this
> program working in Unix and Windows, where the "Archive"
> attribute on the file also has to be preserved (any more
> Windows idiosyncrasies?).

   The platform copy utilities know more than you want to about file
attributes including Read-only, Hidden, Archive, and System bits, compressed
and encrypted attributes, access control lists, multiple forks and further
esoterica. It probably even has a reasonable idea what to do when the
destination file system is different to the source and so may not, for
example, be able to use Unicode file names or ACLs. On Windows, you could
start with something like

os.system("xcopy /K /X /I c:\\os\\s4\\win32 g:\\xxx")

   Another approach is to use the native SHFileOperation API although this
is not wrapped by the Win32 extensions. You could use ctypes to access it.

   Neil





From roy at panix.com  Sun Sep 21 18:23:59 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:23:59 -0400
Subject: Exceptions in threads?
Message-ID: <roy-3A4750.18235921092003@reader2.panix.com>

What is supposed to happen when an exception is raised and not caught in 
a thread?  The Reference Manual (section 4.2) states "When an exception 
is not handled at all, the interpreter terminates execution of the 
program, or returns to its interactive main loop", but it looks like 
what really happens is the thread is terminated, not the whole program.  
If I run the following:

-------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import time
import thread

def bogus ():
    raise Exception

thread.start_new_thread (bogus, ())
while 1:
    time.sleep (1)
    print "still alive"
-------

It keeps printing "still alive".  This is Python 2.2.2 on RedHat 6.2 
Linux.



From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep 16 22:58:55 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:58:55 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <16231.28433.221154.160576@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org>        <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net>        <16231.25317.741455.556170@montanaro.dyndns.org>        <3F67677E.9030408@sci.fi> <16231.28433.221154.160576@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F67CDEF.3030202@sci.fi>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>    >> Actually, it makes perfect sense.  The reference count of Py_None is
>    >> never supposed to reach zero.  If that happens it's because you have
>    >> a bug (too many Py_DECREFs or not enouch Py_INCREFs).  Your version
>    >> of none_dealloc silently masks the error.
>
>    Harri> Yes, and there is no error if the reference count of Py_None
>    Harri> reaches zero. The Py_None reference count has no meaning.
>
>Yes it does.  If it goes to zero it means you have a bug in your code.  Note
>that there are plenty of situations where you INCREF or DECREF objects not
>knowing (or caring) that the actual object you are messing with might be
>Py_None.  If I happen to incompletely test a function defined (in C)
>something like:
>
>    def myfunc(arg1, arg2, arg3=None):
>        blah
>        blah
>        blah
>
>and have a reference count error in my code related to arg3 such that I
>erroneously DECREF it, but never test the three arg case, your version of
>none_dealloc() will silently miss the problem.  The current none_dealloc()
>will rightfully complain if myfunc() is called enough times, because
>Py_None's reference count will go to zero.
>
Yeah, but on the other hand, the application crashes less if it is not 
checked! :-)

>    Harri> By changing the way how Py_None is freed (by doing nothing)
>    Harri> Python would get simpler and faster.
>
>I think you're wrong.  There are lots of places in the current code base
>where the INCREFs and DECREFs happen without concern for the actual object
>passed.  There are at least some places where a check for Py_None would
>probably be warranted.  In any case, I suspect that most INCREFs and DECREFs
>of Py_None actually happen when the interpreter doesn't realize that Py_None
>is being manipulated.  By eliminating the few cases where you do know you're
>messing with Py_None you probably won't reduce the number of Py_INCREF and
>Py_DECREF calls substantially.
>
There are 2001 explicit calls to Py_INCREF(Py_None) in C API source 
code. These are unnecessary, but the implicit calls are of course fine. 
Removing the explicit calls would make Python slightly faster, just 
about enough to compensate the required changes in deallocation 
mechanism as least.

>    Harri> How can you have negative reference counts? Answer: You
>    Harri> can't.
>
>Yes you can.  From Include/object.h:
>
>    /* PyObject_HEAD defines the initial segment of every PyObject. */
>    #define PyObject_HEAD                       \
>            _PyObject_HEAD_EXTRA                \
>            int ob_refcnt;                      \
>            struct _typeobject *ob_type;
>
>Note that ob_refcnt is defined as an int, not an unsigned int.  I'm not sure
>if there are any ramifications to changing the type of that field.  I don't
>have time to inspect the code at the level necessary to answer
>authoritatively.
>
But if the reference count is negative for allocated objects, then you 
already have a bug. I mean that the count is never negative when the 
application works correctly. The object is already deallocated when the 
count reaches zero, so checking for negative counts is (usually) 
superfluous. Python gets slightly faster if you just remove this check 
(from release version).

>    Harri> I think that you are completely missing the point of Python's
>    Harri> reference counting. :-) The idea is that when the count reaches
>    Harri> zero, then the object is deallocated. But if the object was never
>    Harri> allocated in the first place, why deallocate it then? That's why
>    Harri> having empty none_dealloc is beautiful.
>
>Except for the case where the reference counting has an error.  Let me
>restate it this way: The C implementation of Python operationally defines a
>reference count of zero for a statically allocated object (not just Py_None)
>as a fatal error.  That's as it should be, because any statically allocated
>object should have a reference count of at least one.
>
Why? It has no meaning, because the object was never allocated, and it 
can't be deallocated. And if the deallocation routine does nothing for 
statically allocated objects (as it should), we are OK. I agree that 
there must be cases when you gain from this check (when you have bugs in 
your expansion code), but for pure Python source code this is just not 
needed.

And by the way, are are at least technically incorrect by saying "any 
statically allocated objects should have a reference count of at least 
one" because when Python starts, all these reference counts are already 
zero. The exception raises only when it reaches zero for the second 
time. :-)

>    Harri> I think that PyINCREF(Py_None) is ugly, and at least it is
>    Harri> completely unnecessary.
>
>You're the person who keeps asking for it.  Perhaps you should perform the
>tests.  If it works, submit a patch to SF.  If not, dig deeper and figure
>out why.
>  
>
Yeah, getting closer to that I guess. But I should not be doing it just 
yet, I have other projects, but this just keeps bugging me.

Harri






From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 08:21:36 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:21:36 -0400
Subject: ISDN / B-channel
References: <3f6ee79d$0$182$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <3F6EE950.57672E27@engcorp.com>

Claus Hemdrup wrote:
> 
> How do I read the B-channel?

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You are either in the wrong newsgroup, or you've far underspecified
what your problem is, not to mention how it relates to Python.

-Peter



From wt at nic.fi  Fri Sep 19 19:51:52 2003
From: wt at nic.fi (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:51:52 +0300
Subject: Server-side programming
Message-ID: <HAMab.1175$1l5.436@reader1.news.jippii.net>

I'm creating a system with Python CGIs, that connect to a database. I'm 
wondering about input validation. Of course I will check the length of 
the passed parameters, to (hopefully) prevent any DOS attacks. What else 
do I need to check? Do I need to remove any SQL from the inputs? 
Anything else I might have overlooked?

-- 
Timo Virkkala | wt at nic.fi

   "In the battle between you and the world, bet on the world."




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 17:41:01 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:41:01 +0300
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com> <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com> <brtl7s6v.fsf@yahoo.co.uk> <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com> <oexklely.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <qb0fmv0ot1jtnfgdlupj4v2hnc060c1223@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:26:01 +0100, rumours say that Paul Moore
<pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk> might have written:

[I suggesting dt.__class__() instead of dt.replace()]

>dt.replace doesn't have side effects - it creates a new object. Also,
>by using replace(), my version works with date, datetime, or
>subclasses. Yours does too, but it sets the time component of a
>datetime to zero. It's a matter of preference which behaviour is
>"better", I guess.

You are right about dt.replace not having side-effects, just like some
anonymous<wink> major python contributor commented.  Also .replace feels
"better" since it doesn't lose the time information.

PS ...but I still like my use of divmod() ;-)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Wed Sep 24 04:02:47 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:02:47 +1000
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
Message-ID: <200309240802.h8O82mqF026019@localhost.localdomain>

On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
happy to announce the release of Python 2.3.1 (final).

Python 2.3.1 is a pure bug fix release of Python 2.3, released in late
July. A number of obscure crash-causing bugs have been fixed, various
memory leaks have been squished, but no new features have been added to
the language or to the library.

For more information on Python 2.3.1, including download links for
various platforms, release notes, and known issues, please see:

    http://www.python.org/2.3.1

Highlights of this new release include:

 - Bugfixes

 - The Windows installer now ships with documentation in searchable
   htmlhelp format, rather than individual HTML files.

Highlights of the previous major Python release (2.3) are available     
from the Python 2.3 page, at                                            

    http://www.python.org/2.3/highlights.html

This release was the work of a number of dedicated python-dev folks who
took the time to apply bugfixes back to the 2.3 code. The community owes
them many thanks for this work.

Enjoy the new release,
Anthony

Anthony Baxter
anthony at python.org
Python 2.3.1 Release Manager
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team)




From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Thu Sep  4 15:25:11 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 12:25:11 -0700
Subject: Circle Hell
References: <talon34-2DF9F8.07551804092003@news.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0309041125.1b4519fe@posting.google.com>

> $xstart = (cos($current_arclength)*$radius+$xcenter) /10;
> $ystart = (sin($current_arclength)*$radius+$ycenter) /10;

I wouldn't be using lengths of arcs, if I were you. And that division
by 10 looks a bit odd, too.

Given a circle of radius r, if the arc stops at an angle theta to the
horizontal (measured anticlockwise from the east), then the point on
the circle is:
x = xcentre + r * cos(theta)
y = ycentre + r * sin(theta)

If you want to know the point at a distance 25 from the circle, simply
substitute (r + 25) in the formula above.



From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Thu Sep  4 13:31:47 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:31:47 +0200
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com> <VUidncLV5oQd88qiU-KYvw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bj7sr5$jd8$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> 
> "Stephan Diehl" <stephan.diehl at gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:bj7ots$48j$06$1 at news.t-online.com...
>> Once in a while, I get bitten by the fact, that mutating list
> methods such
>> as 'append' or 'extend' return None instead of the (mutated) list
> itself.

[...]

> 
> 'Returners' could wrap no-return mutators with functions or
> derived-class methods that do return the object, but I have never seen
> anyone post a complete module that does so for, say, all list
> mutators.

That's actually a nice idea. I might just do that.
> 
> Terry J. Reedy

Stephan




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 10:49:22 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:49:22 GMT
Subject: py2exe: dynamic module does not define init function
References: <81zbb.99124$hE5.3508075@news1.tin.it> <FoCbb.100492$hE5.3545186@news1.tin.it> <qaDbb.101005$hE5.3554558@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <SZDbb.140624$R32.4432440@news2.tin.it>

Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth* wrote:

>> The message is telling you that audiere.dll does NOT define the
>> mandatory function named 'initaudiere' which it should absolutely
>> define to allow the "import audiere" statement.  If the import
>> works fine outside of a py2exe'd environment but fails in the
>> latter then I suspect you may be getting the "wrong" DLL in the
>> second case (e.g. maybe you didn't copy audiere.dll to the
>> directory in which py2exe's tweaked import expects to find it).
> 
> Thanks Alex for the reply, but if the audiere.dll has been copied in the
> dist/app/ directory (the one with the .exe) doesn't it mean that py2exe
> find it? Maybe i have to copy manually the dll ?
> 

If audiere.dll is in the right directory, and it has the
initaudiere function in it, your behaviour is rather mysterious.
Perhaps you have some other file of the same name on your
machine and import is picking up THAT file instead (under
py2exe only) -- just guessing, of course.


Alex




From s011362 at student.dtu.dk  Mon Sep 15 15:31:07 2003
From: s011362 at student.dtu.dk (Halfdan Holger Knudsen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:31:07 +0200
Subject: unreferenced (???) variable; prob. simple
Message-ID: <JESUSBTQYIcVqeavxhg00000401@webmail.campusnet.dtu.dk>

goodday all - here's a snippet of code that just doesn't seem to work...at
all! But I haven't got the faintest idea why I keep getting an unref.
local var. error. Take a look - I know I can get good help here. And PS:
Thanks beforehand. 

If you're wondering - it's an attempt at a (crude) reproduction of the string.split() functionality for learning purposes.

----------------------

#! /usr/bin/env python

import string
begind = 0
endind = 0

def stripfunc():
    inpstr = raw_input('String to strip: ')
    length = len(inpstr)
    spacelst = list(string.whitespace)
    print spacelst
    for a in range(length):
        if inpstr[a] not in spacelst:
            begind = a
            break
        break
    for b in range(1, length+1):
        if inpstr[-b] not in spacelst:
            endind = length-b
            break
        break
    stripstring = inpstr[begind:(endind+1)]
    print stripstring
    print begind
    print endind

if __name__ == '__main__':
    stripfunc()




From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Fri Sep  5 09:54:13 2003
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 13:54:13 GMT
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <bja4i5$gv6$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> writes:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am 
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across 
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like 
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
> few years, about Python or IT in general.

/The Mythical Man-Month/.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	There are no foolish questions and no man becomes a fool
	until he has stopped asking questions.
				- Charles P. Steinmetz





From calderano at sgaspa.it  Mon Sep 15 07:27:00 2003
From: calderano at sgaspa.it (Luca Calderano)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:27:00 +0200
Subject: I: caching the sql queries
Message-ID: <003501c37b7c$486781d0$410100a4@utente65>

I MEAN YOU CAN ACCESS ADO TROUGHT COM
AS EXPLAINED HERE:

import win32com.client
import locale
from os import sys


adCmdStoredProc    =   4     # Evaluates CommandText as a stored procedure
name.
adCmdTable         =   2     # Evaluates CommandText as a table name.
adInteger          =   3     # A 4-byte signed integer.
adParamInput       =   0x1   # from enum ParameterDirectionEnum


class DBConnect:
    def __init__(self):
        self.Cnn = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Connection')
        self.ConnStr = r'File Name=C:\Graal.dsn'
        self.Cnn.Open (self.ConnStr)
        locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL , "it")

    def GetHeaders(self):
        dati=[]
        Cmd =win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Command')
        Cmd.ActiveConnection = self.Cnn
        Cmd.CommandText = 'Intestazioni'
        Cmd.CommandType = adCmdTable
        Cmd.CommandTimeout = 15
        Rst = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Recordset')
        Rst.Open (Cmd)

dati.append(Rst.Fields.Item('DataRiferimento').Value.Format("%d.%m.%Y"))
        Rst.Close()
        self.Cnn.Close()
        return dati

    def GetReturn(self, Ndg=1036):
        dati=[]
        if not str(Ndg).isdigit():
            raise NoDataError('Il codice cliente inserito non e numerico')
        Cmd =win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Command')
        Cmd.ActiveConnection = self.Cnn
        Cmd.CommandText = 'Incassi_CercaPerNdg'
        Cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc
        Cmd.CommandTimeout = 15

        Prm = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Parameter')
        Prm = Cmd.CreateParameter('@Ndg',adInteger, adParamInput,8,Ndg)
        Cmd.Parameters.Append (Prm)
        Rst = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Recordset')
        Rst.Open (Cmd)
        while not Rst.EOF:
            for i in range(Rst.Fields.__len__()):
                if Rst.Fields.Item(i).Type == 135:
                    dati.append(Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value.Format("%d/%m/%Y"))
                elif Rst.Fields.Item(i).Type == 6:
                    temp =
float((long(Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value[1])&0xFFFFFFFFL) |
(long(Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value[0])<<32)) /1e4
                    dati.append(locale.format('%.2f',temp, 1))
                else:
                    pass
            Rst.MoveNext()
        Rst.Close
        self.Cnn.Close
        return dati

    def GetData(self,Ndg=1036):
        dati=[]
        if not str(Ndg).isdigit():
            raise NoDataError('Il codice cliente inserito non e numerico')
        Cmd =win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Command')
        Cmd.ActiveConnection = self.Cnn
        Cmd.CommandText = 'Anagrafe_CercaPerNdg'
        Cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc
        Cmd.CommandTimeout = 15

        Prm = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Parameter')
        Prm = Cmd.CreateParameter('@Ndg',adInteger, adParamInput,8,Ndg)
        Cmd.Parameters.Append (Prm)
        Rst = win32com.client.Dispatch(r'ADODB.Recordset')
        Rst.Open (Cmd)
        if not Rst.EOF:
            for i in range(Rst.Fields.__len__()):
                if Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value == None:
                    dati.append(None)
                elif Rst.Fields.Item(i).Type == 135:
                    dati.append(Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value.Format("%d/%m/%Y"))
                elif Rst.Fields.Item(i).Type == 6:
                    temp =
float((long(Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value[1])&0xFFFFFFFFL) |
(long(Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value[0])<<32)) /1e4
                    dati.append(locale.format('%.2f',temp, 1))
                elif Rst.Fields.Item(i).Type ==202 or
Rst.Fields.Item(i).Type ==203:
                    a= (Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value)
                    dati.append(a.encode('latin-1','ignore'))
                else:
                    dati.append(Rst.Fields.Item(i).Value)
        else:
            Rst.Close
            self.Cnn.Close
            raise NoDataError('Il codice cliente inserito non e corretto')
        Rst.Close
        self.Cnn.Close
        return dati

class Error(Exception):
    pass

class NoDataError(Error):
    def __init__(self, message):
        self.message = message

    def __str__(self):
        return `self.message`

if __name__ == '__main__':
    prova = DBConnect()
    try:
        a = prova.GetData()
        b = prova.GetHeaders()
        prova = DBConnect()
        c = prova.GetReturn()
        print b ,c
        print '-'*20
        for v  in a:
            if v:
                print v
            else:
                print ''
    except NoDataError,e :
        print e


      S.G.A S.p.A.
Nucleo Sistemi Informativi
     Luca Calderano


-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]Per conto di JZ
Inviato: lunedi 15 settembre 2003 13.14
A: python-list at python.org
Oggetto: Re: caching the sql queries


On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:55:15 +0200, "Luca Calderano"
<calderano at sgaspa.it> wrote:

>>Is there any equivalent of caching sql queries for Python like ADOdb
>>for PHP? (For those who did not hear about ADODb and its feature :
>>http://phplens.com/adodb/caching.of.recordsets.html)
>
>The Only way is using Com

What do you mean?

--
JZ
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Sun Sep 14 18:04:42 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:04:42 -0700
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <bk2okk$nrhg9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Tobiah wrote:

[snip]
> 
> 
> I can't seem to do this in python without gagging:
> 
> foo = getmore()
> while foo:
> process(foo)
> foo = getmore()

Then test your gag reflex on the following:

while 1:
    foo = getmore()
    if not foo:
        break
    process(foo)

Slips down pretty smoothly with me.

[snip]

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 25 13:19:55 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:19:55 +0200
Subject: Getting the Directory/Path details
References: <ab5a234a.0309250906.44b42beb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkv866$u2n$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Kali K E wrote:

> Hi,
> I could not understand how I can do the following things in Python.
> Please help me.
> 
> 1. First I have to find the current directory from where the script is
> invoked.
> 2. Next I have to form a directory structure there. If the current
> directory in step 1 is /home/mylogin, then from there I have to build
> a directory structure like
> /home/mylogin/result
> /home/mylogin/tmp/
> /home/mylogin/.....
> 
> There are three things as I look at it. First determing the current
> directory path. Second adding a string to it like /result etc. Third
> creating the new directory.
> Thank you for the help.
> 
> Kali

1 os.getcwd()
2 os.path.join()
3 os.mkdir() or os.makedirs()

<code>
import os

subfolders = [
    "result",
    "temp",
    "something/else",
]

folder = os.getcwd()

for sf in subfolders:
    os.makedirs(os.path.join(folder, sf))
</code>



From rummanddan_nospam at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  1 10:23:08 2003
From: rummanddan_nospam at hotmail.com (Dan Thrue)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:23:08 +0200
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <vl6ichsnqa7dfa@corp.supernews.com>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162> <vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com> <3f533f3d$0$32467$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk> <vl6ichsnqa7dfa@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f5357a0$0$32519$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <3f533f3d$0$32467$edfadb0f at dread16.news.tele.dk>,
> Dan Thrue  <rummanddan_nospam at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Cameron Laird wrote:
>>
>>>			.
>>>			.
>>>			.
>>>Python already has a structure--and much content!--for 
>>>comparable collaboration in <URL: http://
>>>www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/ >.  Moreover, as several
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> 
>>Thank for your feedback, i personally uses pydoc when im in need of 
>>documentation, but sometimes i have been in such situations where code 
>>snippets was necessary for me. The background for this project is to 
>>gain a great database public of snippets hooked in a structure that is 
>>easily for all to use, novice as well as expert.
> 
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> I apologize for muddling my message.  I completely agree
> that a public knowledge store of code fragments and re-
> lated matters, that is easy for all to access, is a great
> blessing.  That's the aim of the Wiki.  Or were you 
> judging the Wiki a failure in that, but too polite to 
> make it explicit?

No i wont judge anything a failure in this community :) To say it 
shortly, the wiki doesnt actually fill my requirements.

Hope that isnt an too arrogant attitude I put up, but remember we do 
this effort for the community as well for our selves.

Best regards,
Dan




From anuradha.k.r at sify.com  Tue Sep 30 08:35:44 2003
From: anuradha.k.r at sify.com (anuradha.k.r at sify.com)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 05:35:44 -0700
Subject: Tkinter not installed
Message-ID: <57efaf35.0309300435.8864896@posting.google.com>

hi,
  Have a problem in python installation.I have already installed
python 2.2 in my linux machine,but i guess tkinter packages were not
selected then.Now i want to use tkinter as an interface for my
program(actually i wanted to check if my python program written in
windows side works fine on linux side also).
    is there any way i can include the tkinter packages?if so where
can i find those files?
pls help.
thanx,
AKR.



From mack at incise.org  Fri Sep  5 22:16:56 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:16:56 -0500
Subject: list to string
In-Reply-To: <bjbfdu$hjsrl$1@ID-95936.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bjbfdu$hjsrl$1@ID-95936.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030906021656.GK16821@incise.org>

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 04:06:52AM +0200, Lars Behrens wrote:
> Can someone point me a way to change a list with arbitrary number of 
> items to a string :
> 
>   vals = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc']
>   valstring = 'aaa, bbb, ccc'
> 
> Seems easy at the first glance, but...

>>> vals = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc']
>>> valstring = ", ".join(vals)
>>> valstring
'aaa, bbb, ccc'
>>> 

:)

HTH,
-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf
has.  Even when you make a tax form out on the level, you don't know
when it's through if you are a crook or a martyr.
		-- Will Rogers




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Sep  7 01:45:39 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 22:45:39 -0700
Subject: Need help on UNICODE conversion
References: <5lbklvgtlm6l4e1n51tnbin151drrh4410@4ax.com> <3F5A5905.9E8571E3@alcyone.com> <9pdllvgk17b3cetat24g9uj4hq9la7umt3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F5AC603.C35AC004@alcyone.com>

Bernd Preusing wrote:

> Yes, sorry. Cut & paste was not possible, so I wrote it down
> with some errors, very tired and frustrated :-(
> I had tried to attach a small screenshot, but this is no binary news
> group...
> 
> My first fault was to cut off the first 7 bytes, but I had to
> eliminate 8.

Yeah, it looks like it's a NUL-terminated string ('UNICODE\0') followed
by UTF-16 encoded data.

> I had to cut off the beginning, which is "UNICODE\x00".
> The remainder means "Kommentar Unicode *???????*"
> (this contains german umlauts at the end)
> 
> Now I have a string
> ustring = "\x00K\x00o\x00m....."

I reconstructed this as:

>>> s
'\x00K\x00o\x00m\x00m\x00e\x00n\x00t\x00a\x00r\x00
\x00U\x00n\x00i\x00c\x00o\x00d\x00e\x00
\x00*\x00\xe4\x00\xf6\x00\xfc\x00\xc4\x00\xd6\x00\xdc\x00\xdf\x00*\x00\r\x00\n\x00\r\x00\n'

> us2 = unicode(ustring, "utf_16")
> yields: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf16' codec can't decode bytes in
> position 48-49: illegal encoding
> 
> Strange, because that position is at "00 dc" and not earlier!?

In these kind of situations, you can use the 'replace' errors directive
to maybe see what's going on:

>>> unicode(s, 'utf-16', 'replace')
u'\u4b00\u6f00\u6d00\u6d00\u6500\u6e00\u7400\u6100\u7200\u2000\u5500\u6e00\u6900\u6300\u6f00\u6400\u6500\u2000\u2a00\ue400\uf600\ufc00\uc400\ud600\ufffd\ufffd\u2a00\u0d00\u0a00\u0d00\u0a00'

Oops!  Those aren't Unicode codes for Latin numbers, so there's a byte
ordering problem.  Since it's encoding a K as '\x00K', that means that
it's big endian UTF-16, so prepend the proper byte order marker and
voila:

>>> u = unicode(codecs.BOM_UTF16_BE + u, 'utf-16')
>>> u
u'Kommentar Unicode *\xe4\xf6\xfc\xc4\xd6\xdc\xdf*\r\n\r\n'

... which I can convert to Latin-1 and print to then see the umlauts and
the double S.

> Thaks again

You bet.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Give me chastity, but not yet.
\__/  St. Augustine



From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Tue Sep 30 07:15:56 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 04:15:56 -0700
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309300315.7e132c0@posting.google.com>

Hello Jorge,

> I have a simple task where I want my GUI to be able to open several
> applications simultaneously. Using the threading module everything
> works perfectly on Linux but the program won't run on Windows.
What do you mean by "won't run"? Does it crash? ...

> Any hints on what should I do? 
> The working code is really simple and is all what I need on both
> platforms (pseudo-code follows):
> [...]
Just guessing:
1. The spawnl of a .py don't work. You need to start the python interpreter
   on the .py file
2. The GUI toolkit you're using is causing the problem. To check this try
   lauch threads without any gui and see if it works.

HTH.
Miki



From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Mon Sep  8 07:51:28 2003
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:51:28 +0200
Subject: win32com: create email message in windows default app?
References: <z9I6b.18545$n94.7236@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Xns93F08D8CED933cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

>run the
>default email application, create a new message, and let me populate it 
>with subject, body, and attachments?

if you do not need  attachements...


import webbrwoser

webbrowser.open("mailto:guido at python.org?subject=PyPy and 
stacklass&body=please support theses projects")






From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Sep 26 11:20:41 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:20:41 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com>

"David Abrahams" <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:uk77vhagj.fsf at boost-consulting.com...
[snip]
> FWIW, burdening builtins aside I consider the proposed syntax
>
>       for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
>
> much uglier than
>
>      for i in reverse_view(xrange(n)):
>
> but far superior to
>
>      for i in reverse(xrange(n)):
>
> which implies in-place modification of the sequence.

How about

from itertools import ireverse
for i in ireverse(xrange(n)):
    # suite

ireverse(), like imap(), izip(), etc., suggests that the operation is
iterative, and that no modification of the original sequence will be
performed. Others have suggested riter() (right iteration), in order to form
an association with the iter() builtin. As a matter of taste, I prefer
ireverse().

Sean





From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Sep 24 00:56:36 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:56:36 GMT
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <eppstein-22C96A.10011623092003@news.service.uci.edu> <3f70a03d$1_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <698f09f8.0309231908.379c3946@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8u9cb.1457$RW4.375@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Jeremy Fincher:
> That was caused by the multitude of non-greedy quantifiers you've got
> in there.

Except it wasn't reproducible on my machine.

It may be that she was using a Mac, which has an absurdly
low stack space compared to the other machines I used.
But still, I couldn't figure out why it would use that much
stack space.  There's only about 300 characters in that
text, so even if every character caused a stack push it still
shouldn't have created a problem.

What I really suspect is that she shortened her data
before reporting the problem.  It claims to have 335
residues in the alignment but she only reports about 20.

Tina?  If this is the case then please remember next time
to report something which actually causes the bug rather
than something you think may cause the bug.  Doing so
may also give you clues to what's wrong and makes our
life that much easier.

> If you haven't yet read Friedl's "Mastering Regular Expressions," it's
> quite elucidating.

I second that motion.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 08:17:29 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:17:29 GMT
Subject: FIFO problems
References: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <tJZ7b.67$o71.53@news2.central.cox.net>

"Tobias Pfeiffer" <BoteDesSchattens at web.de> wrote in message
news:bjp0sg$li4db$1 at ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hi!
>
> I want to write a "client-server-application" (only running on the same
> machine) or actually I've already begun with and have problems with the
> interprocess communication. The server, when started, opens a FIFO and
> opens it with open(infifo, 'r'). Then I check the content of the file
> with
>
> while 1:
>     line = serverIn.readline()[:-1]
>     if line == "bla":
>         do this
>     else:
>         print line
>

The problem here is that you aren't testing correctly for and end-of-file
condition.

The slice notation you use to "remove the line terminator" unfortunately
gives the same result for an empty line (one containing only a line
terminator) and end-of-file (which returns a line containing no characters
at all).

There are various ways around this. Since you are talking interactive
multi-process stuff here it's probably safest to do somehting like the
following (untested) code:

while 1:
    line = serverIn.readline()
    if not line:
        break
    del line[:-1]
    if line == "bla":
        do something incredibly interesting
    else:
        print line

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From post400 at prontomail.com  Thu Sep  4 10:05:08 2003
From: post400 at prontomail.com (post400)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 07:05:08 -0700
Subject: safari (was Re: Writing solid code book)
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <b15d2792.0309040605.4d8e5f21@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<elC5b.11632$hE5.410636 at news1.tin.it>...
> Jules Dubois wrote:
> 
> > On 03 Sep 2003 13:58:00 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:
> > 
> >> The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
> >> learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).
> > 
> > That's the only Python book you think worth having?  Or buying?
> 
> Speaking as both the co-editor of the Cookbook and the author of the
> Nutshell, if I had to choose ONE Python book "worth having or buying"
> I think I'd go for the Nutshell.  Hard decision, though.
> 
> Fortunately you don't have to choose "sight unseen".  You can join
> O'Reilly's "Safari" online-books service: it's for-pay, but you DO
> get a couple of weeks free access, giving you time to examine all
> of the 15 Python books they have available for online reading -- on
> the basis of how you like what you see, you may then decide to
> purchase any one of them -- or even, if you don't like any of them
> well enough, to purchase none of them and go with the other ones
> you can access in entirely free ways off the net.
> 
> In the past, I made my choices about what books to purchase mostly
> by browsing books at a bookstore.  Half an hour per book might
> mean a full day's worth of browsing to choose among 15 of them,
> and yet not give me a solid enough basis for choosing.  Now I can
> spend 2 or 3 hours examining each book's contents in a more
> convenient setting, and in a weekend plus a couple evenings make
> my choice on a much more solid basis.  Even ignoring safari's many
> other advantages, just as a book-choosing device it's superb!-)
> 
> 
> Alex

Hi,

yes Safari seems ok , you get a few days for free to browse but it's
not totally free.I think the electronic version should be free.Some
people offer their books for free , Bruce Eckel for example and his
Thinking in Java which seems to be a good book.Maybe more writers
should do the same !

bye,
post400



From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep  9 10:43:42 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 16:43:42 +0200
Subject: Jython class names
References: <zsNtMLAchYX$EwY3@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <bjk2fk$38o$07$1@news.t-online.com> <WYZkBWAPDcX$Ewf4@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bjkov4$jo6$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> C:\jython-2.1>jython
> Jython 2.1 on java1.4.2 (JIT: null)
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> class C: pass
> ...
>>>> C().__class__.__name__ is C.__name__
> 0
>>>> C().__class__.__name__ == C.__name__
> 1
>>>>

That's definitely not what I expected. So == is the way to go.
Still, I'm curious: would the code below return 100 in Jython?

>>> class C: pass
...
>>> many = [C() for i in range(100)]
>>> d = {}
>>> for c in many:
...     d[id(c.__class__.__name__)] = None
...
>>> len(d.keys())
1

Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Sep 30 09:44:53 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 13:44:53 GMT
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <gandreas-21AC09.14161229092003@news.mpls.visi.com> <vnh8uh5j8e3i44@corp.supernews.com> <7b3eb.1748$603.1208@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <blc1cl$m4$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:24:51 GMT, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>I've followed this thread, and I'm having trouble understanding why nobody's
>suggested using Alex martelli's "borg" pattern, which he originally called a

I think because (IIUC) the OP wants to import * to avoid naming a container,
and he's willing to live read-only for the resulting bindings (though the
bindings can of course be to mutable things).

>"statel;ess proxy", where all objects of a given type share the same state
>information. Sounds to me that's what you really want, no?
>

>This would mean that in leo_global you would have something like this:
>
>leo_global.py:
>-------------
>class Borg(object):
>    _state = {}
>    def __new__(cls, *p, **k):
>        self = object.__new__(cls, *p, **k)
>        self.__dict__ = cls._state
>        return self
>
>
>module1.py
>-------------
>from leo_global import Borg
>
>myborg = Borg()
>myborg.var1 = "This is var 1"
>
>import module2
>
>print "Module 1's borg has var1 =", myborg.var1, id(myborg.var1)
>print "Module 1's borg has var2 =", myborg.var2, id(myborg.var2)
>
>
> module2.py:
>-------------
>from leo_global import Borg
>
>myborg = Borg()
>myborg.var2 = "This is var 2"
>
>print "Module 2's borg has var1 =", myborg.var1, id(myborg.var1)
>print "Module 2's borg has var2 =", myborg.var2, id(myborg.var2)
>
>The result of all this appears to be what you want: a simple way of creating
>an easily-referenced shared state. Vide:
>
>C:\Steve\Projects\Python>python module1.py
>Module 2's borg has var1 = This is var 1 7766584
>Module 2's borg has var2 = This is var 2 8008928
>Module 1's borg has var1 = This is var 1 7766584
>Module 1's borg has var2 = This is var 2 8008928
>
Yes, but UIAM [1]

    import leo_global as myborg  # leo_global.py being an empty file for this example

instead of

    from leo_global import Borg
    myborg = Borg()

would let you do what you are showing in the above ;-)

[1] Got a little nervous about that, so I tried it:

============================================================
[ 6:43] C:\pywk\clp\leo\SteveHolden>dir leo_global.py
 Volume in drive C is System
 Volume Serial Number is 14CF-C4B9

 Directory of C:\pywk\clp\leo\SteveHolden

03-09-30  06:35                      0 leo_global.py
               1 File(s)              0 bytes
                             56,197,120 bytes free

[ 6:43] C:\pywk\clp\leo\SteveHolden>type module1.py
#module1.py
#-------------
#from leo_global import Borg
#
#myborg = Borg()
import leo_global as myborg
myborg.var1 = "This is var 1"

import module2

print "Module 1's borg has var1 =", myborg.var1, id(myborg.var1)
print "Module 1's borg has var2 =", myborg.var2, id(myborg.var2)




[ 6:44] C:\pywk\clp\leo\SteveHolden>type module2.py
# module2.py:
#-------------
#from leo_global import Borg
#
#myborg = Borg()
import leo_global as myborg
myborg.var2 = "This is var 2"

print "Module 2's borg has var1 =", myborg.var1, id(myborg.var1)
print "Module 2's borg has var2 =", myborg.var2, id(myborg.var2)


[ 6:44] C:\pywk\clp\leo\SteveHolden>python module1.py
Module 2's borg has var1 = This is var 1 9439256
Module 2's borg has var2 = This is var 2 9439496
Module 1's borg has var1 = This is var 1 9439256
Module 1's borg has var2 = This is var 2 9439496

=================================================================================
Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep 12 09:59:27 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 14:59:27 +0100
Subject: Qt vs Tk; SIP to be documented in v4 (was: Re: safari)
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <c19a00587rpb$.1dbigl3h85ufm$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <87ekymm7k0.fsf_-_@pobox.com>

Jules Dubois <bogus at invalid.tld> writes:
[...]
> application on the class' internal BBS.  After comparing the Tkinter code
> to the Swing code I've read, I signed up for the Python development team
> five minutes later.

I'll trollishly <wink> repeat a previous assertion of mine: I've never
heard anybody claim that any other GUI framework beats Qt in terms of
good design and power (hence usability & code clarity).  Since you're
in an academic environment, licensing isn't an issue for you (assuming
the educational license for Qt3/Win isn't a problem for you -- Qt3/Mac
and Qt3/Unix are both available under the GPL), so I'd certainly go
with Qt in your position.  The only fly in the ointment is that PyQt
doesn't yet work natively on the Mac (but Phil is planning to fix that
"with SIP v4").


BTW, I just looked at Phil's SIP roadmap page

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/sip/roadmap.php


and -- shock, horror -- SIP is actually going to be documented in v4!
We'll believe it when we see it ;-).

(prospective PyQt users should note that SIP is not something you'll
ever use while writing PyQt code, so the lack of documentation isn't
an issue -- SIP is the tool used to wrap Qt for Python)


John



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 20:28:22 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:28:22 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062960671.18549.python-list@python.org>
 <OZ5W/kKkX4rU092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <m08W/kKkXgyD092yn@gnosis.cx>         

"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote previously:
|Apologies if you had problems but, as I've said, I don't really have
|time to apply lots of work to my home page.

The page <http://pollenationinternet.com/> states in its third paragraph
that it is intended as a demonstration of the company's designs.  But
this very intro page for the company (and the other pages) has the same
major flaw most Pythonistas have complained about regarding the demo.
The fonts have extremely low contrast against the background.  I have
better than 20-20 vision (and full color perception; and a 21" monitor),
and my eyes strain when I look at that page.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e




From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Fri Sep  5 10:57:40 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:57:40 +0100
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
In-Reply-To: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <bja8eb$ecq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Richard Wesley wrote:
> I don't know if this is really a Python question of a MySQL question, 
> but i am hopen that there is enough overlap that someone can help me ;-)
> 
> I have a unit test suite for our server that loads a clean database 
> image for many of the tests.  I use
> 
> p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
> p.write(sql_commands)
> 
> to load the database.
> 
> While the tests are running, I find that mysql has a growing number of 
> "Sleeping" threads in the 'show processlist' table.  Towards the end of 
> the test suite, the database loads start to fail with a MySQL error of 
> "ERROR 1040: Too many connections".
> 
> So my question would be, is there any way to shut down the child process 
> so that MySQL notices and cleans up after itself before it runs out of 
> threads?
> 
> TIA,
> 

As you aren't using the Python MySQL module and just piping commands to 
an OS process then its likely to be a MySQL problem.

However, its hard to figure out what you're doing wrong because you 
don't tell us what you are doing. What, for instance, are the contents 
of 'sql_commands'?

Generally, if a database complains about too many connections it is 
because you are explicitly (and repeatedly) connecting to it and then 
not releasing those connections when you are finished with them.

Then again, if you are just loading test data into a clean database I'd 
suggest using some of the MySQL utilities to back up and restore and not 
writing your own code. Have a look at mysqldump 
(http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/mysqldump.html)

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 10:23:15 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 15:23:15 +0100
Subject: Trouble with script fetching site
References: <3Zadnamljsa-dMiiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net> <3F55ECD2.48F0BB0B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <873cfe6je4.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Stephen Boulet wrote:
> > 
> > I'm trying to parse a url to set my hardware & system clock (linux).
> 
> I can't help with the problem at hand, but I also don't see the
> reason to do it.  Why not just access an NTP server and grab the
> time the "proper" way?  Using a web page is a roundabout way of
> doing it.

Right.

> There's a nice setclock.py script which Google can
> point you to which does the job much more easily.

On my system, the ntpdate command works nicely.  I run it my PPP
scripts.


John



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Sep  4 08:25:59 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:25:59 -0000
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
References: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062519306.15064.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vlebqnbbg73s11@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1062519306.15064.python-list at python.org>,
Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
>For a language to be "right" for me, it must satisfy a lot of qualities.
>
>One of them is some notion of freedom.  For instance, will I be left
>high and dry if I want to use this language on some new device or
>system architecture?  (For instance, when I start buying Itanium or
>Opteron servers to replace my racks of decrepit Xeons..)
>
>Here are two ways I can be pretty sure this won't happen:
>* Can I have the source code? (C, C++, Python, Perl)  I'll port it to
>  my new platform.
>* Is there already a standard with multiple working implementations?
>  (C, C++, C#, Python)  This multiplies the chances that some
>  implementation will be ported to my new platform.
>
>As far as I can tell, the Rebol folks don't include source code with any
>of their licensing options (SDK, etc), and it doesn't look like their
>documentation gives enough information for a third-party to write their
>own implementation either.
>
>Of course, for those who already rely on single-source software with no
>source-code availability (*cough*microsoft*cough*), maybe this isn't
>such a big deal.  But having been prevented from upgrading to a modern
>version of a compiler by a no-source third-party C++ library recently, 
>I don't relish the idea of being reduced to begging for a recompiled
>version of commercial software again.
>
>Jeff
>

Source code is available for some parts of REBOL, under
some circumstances.  Discussion of REBOL's proprietary,
closed-source nature has dominated this thread, though,
and that's appropriate.

REBOL has a few technical failings, as well.  While I think 
it's quite rare for anyone to decide against REBOL because
of these, there's real value in being specific, rather than
treating the language as a rather cloudy abstraction.

Unfortunately, I'm not a good candidate for the task.  It's
been a couple years since I was current with REBOL.  Among
the blemishes I believe the language (including its
libraries) still exhibits are:
* an inflexible concurrency model
* cumbersome interfaces to modules
  coded in other languages (conse-
  quence:  embedding and extending
  are impractical)
* arguable scalability, in the sense
  of what appears to be skimpy sup-
  port for team-written projects
* no /APACHE for convenient scripting
  with the market-leading Web server
* near GUIlessness
* inconsistent functional-vs-object-
  oriented semantics in aspects of
  program evaluation

Conclusion:  there's a lot to like about REBOL; it's not
perfect; its licensing, rather than technical factors,
dominates most use decisions.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From amonroejj at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 24 16:43:45 2003
From: amonroejj at yahoo.com (R. Alan Monroe)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:43:45 GMT
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
References: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com> <3f71361f$0$97182$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <bZecb.14514$KJ5.11624@fe2.columbus.rr.com> <874qz22jah.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <5mncb.14032$cK5.5101@fe1.columbus.rr.com>

In article <874qz22jah.fsf at pobox.com>, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:

>> >Why not let the client ask directly if it is faster?

>> I thought that defeats the purpose of having 3 tiers. You'd have to 
>> update the client if/every time business rules changed. Unless I'm 
>[...]
>
>Why?  The client asks the client in terms of "business logic", the
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not sure what you meant to say here?

>server asks the database in SQL.  If server and DB can communicate
>quickly, no problem.


Let's say I want to see all the tickets I worked on in the previous 
calendar year. The server can get this from the DB in 1 second. But if 
the server has to spend 30, 60 or more seconds getting those results 
back to me, the client, the system wouldn't be worth using, in my 
opinion.

I _have_ used systems that returned a subset of matching records to 
the client, and found it very uncomfortable. That's why in my system I 
want to scratch my own itch, and return all the records.

Alan
 



From pweldon at mindspring.com  Sat Sep 20 12:34:24 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:34:24 GMT
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it> <ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> <vmorgph6n3lg12@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <kk%ab.45988$Aq2.29517@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

No, it is only one worm with multiple methods of attack.

#1.  The fake 'security update' announcement purporting to be from Microsoft
(this e-mail is in HTML) and that includes an infected attachment.  If you
don't have protection, opening this e-mail runs the attachment even if you
don't run it.  So far the body of this vector doesn't vary, though the
header information does.

#2.  The bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' message in which everything seems to
vary except, so far, the infected attachment that purports to be your
bounced e-mail.

#3.  The worm scans PtoP file-sharing data to spread further.

#4.  The worm hijacks servers to act as a source from which to download
packages to vary the infectious e-mail.

#5. The worm can post to usenet.  Here's the header of a post that appeared
this morning on alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit

Path:
newsspool1.news.atl.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!elnk-atl-nf
1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!prox
ad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cablei
net.net!news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
FROM: "Clive Skingle" <mufchfohaauqze_qset at ykmke.com>
NEWSGROUPS:
alt.comp.lang.php,alt.comp.mail.postfix,alt.comp.mail.qmail,alt.comp.malaysi
a,alt.comp.periphs.cdr,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.main
board.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.a
ti
SUBJECT: Watch this critical update from the M$
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="hilghfawbnhbqydk"
Lines: 2182
Message-ID: <3RWab.214$_z.9 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:27:59 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.32.208.238
X-Complaints-To: abuse at blueyonder.co.uk
X-Trace: news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk 1064057279 82.32.208.238 (Sat, 20 Sep
2003 11:27:59 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:27:59 GMT
Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder)
Xref: news.earthlink.net alt.comp.lang.php:12068 alt.comp.mail.qmail:7299
alt.comp.malaysia:17767 alt.comp.periphs.cdr:403271
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:567500
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus:661135
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte:41619
alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati:145487
X-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:28:01 PDT
(newsspool1.news.atl.earthlink.net)

Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com


"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:vmorgph6n3lg12 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "Phil Weldon" <pweldon at mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773 at newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > It's a worm.  Worm.Automat.AGH.  This is going to be a bad one.  The
worm
> > installs, among other things, an SMPT engine, searches an infected
system
> > for email address, and sends two types of e-mail:  the first is HTML and
> is
> > a fake "security patch" supposedly from Microsoft.  It looks very
> official,
> > but the attachment, 104 KBytes long, is infectious.  Norton Antivirus
> > definitions only began to identify it with the 18SEP03 manual definition
> > update.  The worm also posts to usenet newsgroups.  The other type of
> e-mail
> > is a fake notification of undeliverable e-mail.  This one is a real
bear.
> > There seem to be hundreds variations in the body content and thousands
of
> > variations in the header.  The infectious package is also about 104
> KBytes.
> > I'm getting nearly 100 of the two types per hour.  Norton Antivirus does
> not
> > detect the worm in usnet posts read by Outlook Express Newsreader or
> Outlook
> > Newsreader.  Only when you attempt to open the attachment or save the
> > attachment to disk will Norton identify it.  Norton will NOT detect the
> > virus in the newsgroup posts folder NOR will it detect the newsgroup
> folder
> > in a full system scan.  It will not remove the infected file from the
> > newsgroup folder, but it will prevent execution of the vermal payload.
> >
> > Microsoft Outlook with the SP3 security update when used as your e-mail
> > reader protects against infection.  Prior to 18SEP03 Norton did not.
> >
> > The worm is also retrieving additional variations, so you can expect the
> > payload size to begin changing soon.  The HTML message is easy to
> identify;
> > it is always the same (so far), and includes the phrase 'Run attached
> file'.
> > The bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' variations have no commonality but the
> > payload attachment (that purports to be your bounced e-mail.)  This will
> > likley change soon.
> >
> > My guess is that the internet will not open on Monday.
>
> So far, I have seen no copies of the worm on usenet. This may be
> the result of my paying $$$ to a good usenet provider (Supernews.)
> Unfortunately, my e-mail provider got the stupid idea that "delete"
> meant "save a complete copy for 14 days just in case you want
> to see it." Most of the stuff is going into two mailboxes that I need
> to clean out manually every two or three hours (they're not my inbox,
> so the POP3 script won't do it.)
>
> It looks like two worms that just happened to hit at one time,
> doesn't it?
>
> John Roth
>
>
>





From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Sep  6 17:29:06 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 23:29:06 +0200
Subject: Need help on UNICODE conversion
References: <5lbklvgtlm6l4e1n51tnbin151drrh4410@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bjdju5$eed$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Bernd Preusing wrote:

> I have a JPG file which contains some comment as unicode.
> 
> After reading in the string with s=file.read(70) from file offest 4
> I get a string which is shown as
> 'UNICODE\\0x00\\ox00K\\0x00o' and so forth in the debugger
> (using Komodo).

Seems that this is not properly cut and pasted :-( 

I suppose that "\\0x00" is just a complicated replacement for "\x00" used by
the debugger. As long as all characters are in the range 0..255, you could
simply remove every other character:

>>> "XHXeXlXlXoX XWXoXrXlXd"[1::2] 
'Hello World'
>>>

Use 8 instead of 1 as start index to also remove "UNICODE".
That might eliminate the need for a unicode string, or you could easily
create one from the "normal" string.


Peter



From essai1 at mci.local  Mon Sep 15 07:14:07 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:14:07 +0200
Subject: pyc2py
References: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de><bk3p54$8ed$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr> <mailman.1063613126.2672.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bk47ea$9b5$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

Yes !  It's only a question.

-- 
Michel Claveau






From nicola-mingotti at libero.it  Fri Sep  5 22:47:35 2003
From: nicola-mingotti at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 04:47:35 +0200
Subject: list to string
References: <bjbfdu$hjsrl$1@ID-95936.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bjbi7s$p3i$4@newsreader.mailgate.org>

Lars Behrens <Spam.Buster at web.de> writes:
> 
> Can someone point me a way to change a list with arbitrary number of
> items to a string :
> 
>    vals = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc']
>    valstring = 'aaa, bbb, ccc'
>

# here you import a lot of functions on strings
import string   

vals = ['a','b','c']
valstring = string.join(vals,",")

> Seems easy at the first glance, but...
... it's :) 

bye



From shane at zope.com  Fri Sep 12 17:41:42 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:41:42 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <3F61F407.DC7FB2F9@hotmail.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <3F615217.8060106@sci.fi> <mailman.1063377679.19889.python-list@python.org> <3F61F407.DC7FB2F9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F623D96.8030807@zope.com>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Which leads to problems with reference counting and garbage
> collection. These would have to take multiple processes into account:
> what happens when a process goes down? Should the objects allocated by
> it be destroyed? Or remain persistent? Until when? If a process died
> in an unclean fashion, it might not delete its references to objects
> cleanly.
> 
> And it gets more complex again when you're dealing with users and
> permissions.
> 
> I think that there are so many questions associated with the approach
> of sharing python objects through shared memory that it will probably
> remain an "application specific" technique for some time to come.
> 
> Though doubtless some more knowledgable person than I will now
> contradict me. Please. :-)

I'd just like to point out that Steffen Viken Valvag has just recently 
(March 2003) researched this, found solutions, and written an 
implementation.

http://poshmodule.sourceforge.net/posh/html/node4.html

That page leaves a few questions about the distributed garbage 
collection unanswered, but it's a nice high-level overview.

I don't know how stable Posh is, but if nothing else it is a convincing 
proof of concept.

Shane





From tpherndon at mindspring.com  Mon Sep 15 17:32:11 2003
From: tpherndon at mindspring.com (Peter Herndon)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 14:32:11 -0700
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <17d520f6.0309130701.222d09fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b8786dc4.0309151332.71907f18@posting.google.com>

ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com (Ubaidullah Nubar) wrote in message news:<17d520f6.0309130701.222d09fe at posting.google.com>...

> I will appreciate some more clarification regarding the GUI framework.
> From the wxPython web site, it looks very good but the two tools
> mentioned here
> for easing the development of GUI apps (mojoview and kiwi) are both
> based on GTK.
> 
> Are they fundamentally different or just a matter of style.

Well, pyGTK and wxPython are Python-language wrappers or bindings
around two separate GUI toolkits, GTK+ and wxWindows.  As such, the
code details will wind up being different.  I suspect, though I have
no experience with pyGTK, that differences will be mostly syntactic
and that overall coding thought processes will be mostly similar.  Can
anyone else confirm/deny?
> 
> How easy to switch from one framework to another?
> 

See above answer.

> Which framework supports internationalization better? Do they support
> Right-to-left layouts?

I know that wxPython relies on wxWindow's internationalization
capabilities, which seem to be centered around gettext and friends.  I
do not see anything in the documentation that suggests support for
bidirectional font support.  Seeing as how gettext and GTK+ are both
GNU apps, it should come as no surprise that GTK+ also uses gettext.

> Is there any site that lists the differences/capabilities of each
> framework?

There is a comparison of wxWindows, Qt, GTK+, FOX and fltk at:
http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/928/
which provides an overview of the differences between the various
toolkits.  I know there is a comparison on the wxPython site between
itself and Tk, though you can guess the conclusion from the source.  I
don't know of any comparisons between the Python bindings for the
above toolkits.

> Also, a comparison between Boa Constructor and Glade-2. I haven't seen
> either so am not sure if they are even comparable.

Boa-Constructor is a fully-fledged IDE that includes a code editor,
debugging, and a GUI designer tool.  Boa is based around wxPython, and
also includes substantial support for development for the Zope
application server.  Boa-Constructor is not yet fully mature, but
shows much promise.

Glade is a GUI designer only, that generates XML resource files used
by GTK+ to generate the GUI interface.  As such, it is not directly
comparable with Boa.  PyGTK has support for working with such resource
files.

Interestingly enough, wxGlade is a more-or-less copy of Glade, but for
use with wxPython rather than GTK+, and it generates "cleaner" code
than Boa-Constructor.

> > > How well is Python suited for developing database based applications?

Very well suited.  Python has a standard database interface module
available which makes it easy to connect to just about any database. 
Typically there are multiple drivers available for any given database
from which to choose.  Python itself is extremely easy to write, and
Python wrappers for many different GUI toolkits are available.

> > > 2. There seem to be a number of GUI frameworks available? Which one is
> > > good for use on Windows and Linux?

I've found that wxPython works well cross-platform, and is easy to
use.  I've heard good things about pyGTK and pyQT, but have no
experience with them.

> > > 4. What types of applications are not suitable to be written in
> > > Python?

CPU-intensive applications -- maybe.  Python is not as efficient as C,
so you would be better off writing the application in Python,
profiling it to determine the areas that make the application slower
than is acceptable, and rewriting those modules as C libraries and
calling them from Python.  For what it is worth, I'm currently writing
an application in Python using wxPython that retrieves simple data
from a Sybase Adaptive Server Anywhere database over ODBC, and formats
the data into a report page in generated HTML.  By many orders of
magnitude, the slowest part of the application is the connection to
the database -- the ODBC connection itself.  The Python and wxPython
parts are whiz-bang fast.



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep  8 11:21:25 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:21:25 -0400
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com> <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253> <3F5C7270.1020001@ghaering.de> <mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list@python.org> <Xns93F093815E0CDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3F5C9E75.30058CC8@engcorp.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> 
> Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in
> news:mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list at python.org:
> 
> > That's a good start. I presume I need to use codecs.open(filename,
> > mode[, encoding[, errors[, buffering]]]) to read the file. What is the
> > actual value of the "encoding[" parameter for "Little-endian UTF-16
> > Unicode character data, with CR line terminators"
> 
> Try:
> 
>  myFile = codecs.open(filename, "r", "utf16")

I don't do unicode, but might you not want "rb" instead of just "r"
in the above?  Does that argument apply to the low-level "open" or
to the codec open?  In other words, when would CR-LF translation be
happening if you specified just "r"?

-Peter



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 20:32:59 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:32:59 GMT
Subject: print and trailing white space
References: <20030918232501.4f2ab362.max@fr.fm> <bkdas5$usv$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <%8sab.6104$9G2.5883@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Thank you for a great example anyway!
M-a-S

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:bkdas5$usv$07$1 at news.t-online.com...
>
> >>> class Out(object):
> ...     def _set_softspace(self, value):
> ...             pass
> ...     def _get_softspace(self):
> ...             return False
> ...     softspace = property(_get_softspace, _set_softspace)
> ...     def write(self, s):
> ...             sys.stdout.write(s)
> ...
> >>> out = Out()
> >>> print >> out, "a", "b", "c"
> abc
> >>> print >> out, "x",
> x>>>
>
> It's possible, but I'd rather go with write().
> And, please, never ever substitute sys.stdout with a similar object.
>
> Peter





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Sep 22 05:45:38 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:45:38 +0200
Subject: Begineer Question : Global string substitution with re
References: <Law11-F51JfEg897Bqg00010f1e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bkmgc6$bal$1@sea.gmane.org>

peter leonard wrote:

> import re
> line = "This is the first ratio, 170/37, and this is the second  170/37 "
>
> def normalise(text):
>
>     #Tag fractions
>     fraction = r'(\s+\d+\/\d+\s+)'

the second \s+ doesn't match the comma after the first ratio.

</F>







From joerg_k76 at ___gmx.at  Wed Sep 10 11:08:26 2003
From: joerg_k76 at ___gmx.at (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Keller?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:08:26 +0200
Subject: passing object via REQUEST-object
In-Reply-To: <bjnec0$70a$1@online.de>
References: <bjnec0$70a$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <bjnepb$754$1@online.de>

Sorry, I apologize for that stupid Question!
Obviously I dont't pass the folder-object but a string "folder instance 
at XXXXX".

Never mind ...
J?rg




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 17:48:41 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:48:41 +0300
Subject: scoping with lambda in loops
References: <7f9e1817.0309161338.20fbdcbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <q11fmvs4ji4fjqbl2i1m3qpr80ren323pu@4ax.com>

On 16 Sep 2003 14:38:16 -0700, rumours say that imcmeans at telus.net (Ian
McMeans) might have written:

>First, I made multiple lambda functions inside a loop, each of which
>depended on the current loop variable.
>
>>>> a = []
>>>> for index in range(5):
>	a.append(lambda: index)
>
>Now, see if you can guess what the output was for each of the
>functions in the list a:
>>>> a[0](), a[1](), a[2](), a[3](), a[4]()
>I had expected it to be (0, 1, 2, 3, 4), but actually, it's:
>
>(4, 4, 4, 4, 4)
>
>This really surprised me. I guess what is happening is that each
>lambda knows what the context of execution is where it was defined,
>and doesn't actually evaluate until the function is called, and when
>it does evaluate, it uses the current value of the variable. Is this
>related to static scoping? A similar thing would happen if you defined
>a nested function that used a variable declared in the outer function,
>then changed that variable, and called the nested function.
>
>Can someone recommend a way to code around this gotcha? I'm having
>trouble. I want the functions created inside the loop to execute with
>the value of the loop index at the moment when the function is made.

I think this is a FAQ (perhaps it was FAQ 6.10?), and you can find many
threads on the subject if you do a search on groups.google.com.

The typical way to deal with this, IIRC, is to change your lambda
declaration into:

>	a.append(lambda index=index: index)

so that index gets evaluated at definition time.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From steve at ferg.org  Sat Sep 27 13:57:07 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 10:57:07 -0700
Subject: Here is a new, free Python icon/logo
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0309270957.76da1e40@posting.google.com>

I've developed a little Python icon/logo suitable for use on a Web
page.  It is in the public domain.

http://www.ferg.org/python_logos/index.html

It is not the most artistically sophisticated thing in the world, but
it is bold and colorful.   Feel free to use it as you wish.

-- Steve Ferg



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 18 12:40:11 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:40:11 -0400
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com>
			 <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com>
			 <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Key phrase: "Metaobject protocols are interfaces to the language
> > that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> > behavior and implementation...".  Near as I can tell, part of the
> > whole character of Python is that a user *cannot* do either of
> > those things.
> 
> Hmm, does this rephrasing hold any truth?
> 
> "Metaclasses are interfaces to the python language
> that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> behavior and implementation...".
> 
> Isn't modifying standard behaviour the whole purpose of metaclasses?

But it doesn't really modify the *language's* behaviour in the way 
implied by a simplistic reading of the above phrase.  That is, the
"obvious" interpretation is that syntax and grammar are being affected,
not just the behaviour of one small slice of the language, specifically
how classes behave.  In some languages the two things are not so
separate, but in Python they seem to be.

-Peter



From bbeck at NOSPAM.austin.rr.com  Sun Sep  7 13:30:02 2003
From: bbeck at NOSPAM.austin.rr.com (Brandon Beck)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 17:30:02 GMT
Subject: Text file extract
References: <1PudndLL4fUZWMqiU-KYuA@kconline.com>
Message-ID: <1k5s21-535.ln1@isomorphism.org>

I wrote a generalized version of this exact thing a year or so ago.  It
can be found at:
http://isomorphism.org/~bbeck/splitter/

Additionally a post I made about it from last year can be found at:
http://tinyurl.com/mjj6


Specifically you'll want to write something like what's contained in
FirstNameSplitter.py but for your CSV format.  Here's what I suggest you
make YourSplitter.py look something like.

--------

import re
re_group_name = re.compile('[^,]*,[^,]*,(?P<name>[^,]*),.*')

class YourSplitter:
    def get_group_name(self, line):
        return re_group_name.group("name")

    def get_group_filename(self, groupname):
        return groupname + '.txt'  #  You'll want to update this to
specify your subdirectory too

    def update_line(self, line):
        return line  # no need to modify the line

-------

Once that's done you can run 'python splitter.py YourSplitter input.txt'
and it should just work its magic.


"Andy" <Hoosbruin at Kconline.com> wrote in message
news:1PudndLL4fUZWMqiU-KYuA at kconline.com...
>
> I have a test file and need to split the data based upon a record in a
> certain field. Then write those record to a multiple files in
different
> folders.
>
>
>
>  Example data:
>
> RECORD 1)  ABCD,666,TOM,4.00,9/1/03
> RECORD 2)  TYTY,666,TIM,4.00,9/1/03
> RECORD 3)  ABCD,666,BILL,4.00,9/1/03
> RECORD 4)  XXXX,666,TOM,4.00,9/1/03
>
>
> All the fields will be comma separated and the 3rd field will contain
the
> record I will use to split.
>
>  So records 1 and 4 get written to the same file call it Cust.txt and
write
> it to folder \\server\tom\Cust.txt
>  Then record 2  gets written to cust.txt in a different folder
> \\server\tim\cust.txt
>
>
>   and so on.....
>
>  I have never written a Python script so would like to see how this
would be
> done. I deal with a lot of text file input and would like to see how
easy
> Python handles this task..
>
>  thanks in advance... If you could doc some of your code so I can
follow
> thru it .. would be great.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





From plb at iotk.com  Fri Sep 19 15:56:04 2003
From: plb at iotk.com (Peter L. Buschman)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 12:56:04 -0700
Subject: Join equivalent for tuples of non-strings?
References: <1a884f4a.0309181000.749eb8a1@posting.google.com> <bkd4ld$e324$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1a884f4a.0309191156.1428a44d@posting.google.com>

Awesome!  Thanks guys :)
--PLB



From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Thu Sep 11 17:19:15 2003
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 14:19:15 -0700
Subject: dumb q: repeated inheritance in python?
Message-ID: <a8623416.0309111319.14334945@posting.google.com>

Hi, here's a silly question.  I'm wrote some code a while back that
looks like this:

import types

class Named(object):
    def __init__(self,nm=''):
        self.iname = ''
        self.setnm(nm)
    def setnm (self,nm):
        if isinstance(nm, types.StringType):
            self.iname = nm
        else:
            raise TypeError, "Name passed to Named isn't a string."
    def getnm (self):
        return self.iname
    name = property(getnm,setnm)

Pretty basic, a name attribute with simple type checking, it works
fine and the code using it is fine.  Well, it was, until I came up
with an object that needed two names, with the same basic type
checking.  Now the simplistic way to do that would be copy this class
to another class, say Named2, rename the property name2 and be done
with it.  On the other hand, having code that's basically an exact
duplicate of other code except for some name changes seems a tad
inelegant.  What I'd really like to do is inherit this same object
twice, but the second time rename the objects so that I get 'name2'
instead of 'name'.  (And somehow rename the functions, and so on.)

But I can't figure out how to do it.  Is there some way to do this?  I
suspect there might be some way to do it with metaclasses, but I
haven't really wrapped my head around that stuff yet.  Maybe something
with the new 'super' keyword?  Beats me.  Anyway, any help would be
great, thanks!!!



From sjf at NOSPAM.plusnet.pl  Tue Sep 23 09:17:54 2003
From: sjf at NOSPAM.plusnet.pl (sjf)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:17:54 +0200
Subject: command line or idle?
Message-ID: <bkph6m$ljs$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Is it possible to distinguish if script is running on python command line
(python.exe) or IDLE?


-- 
regards,
   sjf :)



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Sep 16 12:41:28 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:41:28 +0200
Subject: Internal Debugger Question
References: <6ee58e07.0309120604.3a1f4985@posting.google.com> <7h3r82gem0k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <just-07DEDD.18412816092003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <7h3r82gem0k.fsf at pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>,
 Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:

> llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) writes:
> 
> > i'm currently writing a debugger for python and found that some
> > modules store an absolute file path in "co_filename" of there
> > methods/functions and some store a relative file path. Because the
> > relative file path can never be expanded to an absolute file path
> > later (the sys.path may have changed) it is impossible to find the
> > source code location.
> > 
> > Is there anything i have missed or is this simply a bug. I would
> > highly recommend to fix this bug !
> 
> I belive this is one of the oldest open bug reports on SF... I spent a
> few minutes looking at it, before deciding I didn't care enough to fix
> it.  Your point of view may be different:
> 
>     http://python.org/sf/415492
> 
> Be warned, the import code is some of the most frightening (to me,
> anyway) code in Python.

A workaround may be to look at __file__ in the frame's f_globals field. 
I'm moderately confident that that one gets set correctly upon import.

Just



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Sep 24 15:12:16 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:12:16 -0600
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
In-Reply-To: <k77w1zog.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1064501497.18527.python-list@python.org> <k77w1zog.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <200309241312.16579.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 25 September 2003 12:38 pm, Thomas Heller wrote:
> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:
> > venster.pycb (82k)
> > main.pycb (15k)
> >
> > Under 100KB is not bad for a GUI app! :)
> >
> > The .pycb format is basically ZIP + AES encryption, and pycb uses the new
> > import hooks in 2.3 to handle it. The encryption is just to keep honest
> > people out; anybody with the right combination of smart and bored could
> > figure out how to circumvent it.
>
> I have also experimented with importing encrypted .pyo files, but my
> short experiments so far didn't give sufficient speed. Only the a simple
> string.translate() or the rotor module with one permutation didn't slow
> down the import by several orders of magnitude. What decryption rates do
> you get?

I haven't measured it yet, but probably because I haven't noticed any 
significant slow down (to be honest, before your mention of it, import speed 
hadn't crossed my mind other than wondering aloud if using .py instead of 
.pyc would be noticable). I'm using the Rinjdael AES code from:

http://eevolved.com/cryptkit/index.php?page=5

Maybe the reason I haven't seen any problems is that I'm taking the simplistic 
approach of creating pycb's like this:

1) zip up all the files
2) compress the zip
3) encrypt it
4) add magic tokens to identify the archive as a pycb file

which of course implies that on load I read the entire pycb into memory and 
decrypt it right then before handing it off to the import hook. This approach 
was the quickest route to a working prototype, but I stuck with it because 
per-file encryption would likely wreck compression rates, and pycb's are all 
quite small (even for a large application it would measure in the low 
megabytes of memory used, if that).

-Dave




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sat Sep 27 19:48:24 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:48:24 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>
 <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com>
 <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it>
 <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it>
 <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com>
 <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uy8w94wtz.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

>>> and without that ability to dereference the iterator (1) I cannot see
>>> the point of iterating through a pair, and (2) the 'iterator' would
>>> not be a true iterator as C++ iterators have to comply with one of a
>>> set of standard protocols (forward, bidirectional, random etc) which
>>> all include subscripting.
>>
>>I'm pretty well familiar with those protocols - I've been working on
>>the C++ standards committee since 1997 and have written several
>>related proposals, c.f. http://tinyurl.com/ovpe.
>
> OK - sorry for that.

No prob.

> I remain surprised that this degree of specialisation occurs, but
> it's a case of live and learn I suppose.

Sorry, what specialization?

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Sep  4 11:37:32 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 11:37:32 -0400
Subject: Zope mailing lists dead ?
References: <bj7ghb$1ebf$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bj7m7s$oe8$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <bj7ghb$1ebf$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>,
Gilles Lenfant <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>I didn't receive anything from the various Zope mailing lists I should
>receive.

mail.python.org is currently not processing mail; dunno whether it's
related.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From stefnin at alussinan.org  Thu Sep 25 07:27:05 2003
From: stefnin at alussinan.org (Stéphane Ninin)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 11:27:05 GMT
Subject: asyncore question
References: <Xns93F48D6F052CAstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.75> <mailman.1063370360.32090.python-list@python.org> <p2j9b.3994$U41.2930@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <Xns94017F5A995A6stefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.32>
Message-ID: <Xns940187E0D7C13stefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.32>

Also sprach St?phane Ninin :

> 
>>> I believe it's an oversight in asyncore.  Either create_socket should
>>> take a map parameter, or __init__ should store the initial map and
>>> create_socket should use it.  One workaround is to create the socket
>>> yourself and call set_socket(sock, some_map). 
>> 
>> Please submit a bug report.
>> 
> 
>   Oops, sorry for delay.
> 
> Where can I submit it ?
> 

No need to reply... :) I found the page, and it seems a similar bug is 
already there, "[ 758241 ] asyncore with non-default map problems".
I guess that I could submit a patch if I find some time.


   Thanks & regards,

-- 
St?phane Ninin




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Sep  4 15:22:41 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:22:41 -0400
Subject: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <vlf47slg7h46bb@news.supernews.com>

"Patrick Useldinger" <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:opruzmelopdd8opo at news.vo.lu...
> Hi All,
>
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last
> few years, about Python or IT in general.

I'd suggest "Lean Software Development: An Agile Toolkit" by
Mary and Tom Poppendieck. It applies the concepts of Lean
Manufacturing to software development. It's mercifully silent on
specific Agile methodologies, but covers all of the theoretical
underpinnings that will let you understand why they work, and why
conventional software development methodologies have problems.
Chapter 1 enumerates the seven categories of waste, and introduces
you to value stream mapping as a tool.
Chapter 2 covers quality, learning, feedback, iterations, synchronization
and set-based development (actually set-based decision making).
Chapter 3 states why one should defer decisions as late as possible,
and covers concurrent development, options thinking, the last responsible
moment and making decisions
Chapter 4 covers rapid delivery, including pull systems, queueing theory
and the cost of delay.
Chapter 5 covers team empowerment, including a scathing critique of
Taylorism, the CMM and CMMi, team self-determination, motivation,
leadership and expertise.
Chapter 6 covers integrity, including perceived integrity (the customer's
view), conceptual integrity (the developer's view), refactoring and testing.
Chapter 7 covers seeing the whole, measurements, the problems with
attempting to optimize individual pieces of a process (suboptimization)
and contracts.

While I consider myself as somewhat of an XP fan, this has shaken
up what I thought I knew and given me a whole different perspective
on what works, what doesn't and most importantly, why.

John Roth
>
> -Patrick





From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 18:49:33 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:49:33 GMT
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com> <4bh3nv0esljf8pkegog0lc4lmg87siv1oc@4ax.com> <CxWcb.172171$R32.5498673@news2.tin.it> <bl1dra$j30@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk> <Q_idb.179403$R32.5743467@news2.tin.it> <bl4pgu$pts$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <1uodb.132097$hE5.4497951@news1.tin.it>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
   ...
> Some fast way of computing a tuple (bitmask,nbits) from a long integer
> in Python can be interesting anyway, if only to facilitate bit
> twiddling experiments. Below's a -probably buggy- part of a

Sure, but I think gmpy already offers good and fast functions for all of 
these needs.  E.g., gmpy.numdigits(x, 2) for the number of bits, and
also getbit, setbit, lowbits, ...


Alex




From llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net  Mon Sep 29 15:53:46 2003
From: llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:53:46 +0200
Subject: append log file
Message-ID: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi,
I have a log file and of course I want to add the new information to the 
end of that log file. Unfortunately I always delete the old information 
and only append the current info.

Right now I do it like this:
I call a module which consists of a class and a function. It actually 
doesn't matter, but I just included it for the sake of completeness.
The module looks like this:

class log_C:
    def errorlog(self, filename, Data, d):
        LogFile = file(filename, 'w')
        ErrorInfo = Data[d+1]
        LogFile.write(ErrorInfo)
        LogFile.close()

How can I add the new info without deleting the old info?
I tried the modes 'a' and 'a+' but they both didn't work. Actually the 
data was totally unreadable! It was kind of messed up. :-( I don't know why.

Thanks for your help.
Regards, Tom




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Sep 21 16:08:56 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:08:56 -0700
Subject: math.exp(complex)
Message-ID: <eppstein-78B907.13085621092003@news.service.uci.edu>

Why doesn't this work?

>>> import math
>>> math.exp(1j*math.pi)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use e.g. abs(z)

The expected answer, of course, is -1.

It does work if you do it like this:

>>> math.e**(1j*math.pi)
(-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)

So why not math.exp(complex)?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Sep 20 00:41:15 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 00:41:15 -0400
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
References: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com> <3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <j8mdnRu0dsXxR_aiU-KYjQ@comcast.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9 at engcorp.com...
> > Does this make any sense at all?  where did the lead c in conn_fee
go?
>
> Based on the behaviour you describe, I would assume lstrip()
> removes, starting at the beginning of the string, all characters
> which are *anywhere* in the argument string you give it, until
> it encounters a character not in that string, at which point it
> stops.

Good call:  from Lib Ref 2.2.6.1 String Methods

lstrip( [chars])

Return a copy of the string with leading characters removed. If chars
is omitted or None, whitespace characters are removed. If given and
not None, chars must be a string; the characters in the string will be
stripped from the beginning of the string this method is called on.

If one wants to remove a leading substring, s[k:] does nicely.
Determining a common prefix to remove is also easy.  The following
does what OP expected:

def rempre(s, pre):
    'assume len(pre) <= len(s)'
    stop = len(pre)
    i = 0
    while i < stop and s[i] == pre[i]:
        i += 1
    return s[i:]

>>> rempre(s, 'chg')
' conn'
>>> rempre(s, 'chg ')
'conn'

Terry J. Reedy





From mark at hahnca.com  Mon Sep  8 14:00:13 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:00:13 -0700
Subject: win32com: need help with opening mapi session error
References: <kl37b.22782$n94.10196@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <Ns37b.22785$n94.6145@fed1read04>

Well, seconds after posting my question, I ran into the answer in another
old posting that I swear I searched for before and didn't find:

>Never mind -- this is the crash you see if you don't
>have CDO object support installed for MAPI.
>CDO support used to be installed by default with
>Outlook, but now it isn't.  After installing CDO
>support, my program is happy.

So I guess I'll have to do it the hard way with all the direct MAPI crud.

Unless .... is there any way to install a microsoft feature like CDO from
Python?







From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Mon Sep  8 01:09:13 2003
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 05:09:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Baypiggies User Group Meeting, September 11, 2003
References: <bjh2mf$n95$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <bjh2tp$nfi$1@agate.berkeley.edu>

Daniel Yoo <dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
: BayPIGgies: Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group

: When: September 11, 2003 @ 7:30pm
: Where: Carnegie Institute of Washington
:       at Stanford University; Palo Alto


Ooops, forgot to post the link for driving directions:

    http://baypiggies.net/



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Sep 21 16:33:03 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:33:03 -0400
Subject: math.exp(complex)
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-78B907.13085621092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEOMGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[David Eppstein]
> Why doesn't this work?
>
> >>> import math
> >>> math.exp(1j*math.pi)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use e.g. abs(z)
>
> The expected answer, of course, is -1.

The math module mostly provides thin wrappers around the standard C
library's functions of the same names.  They don't accept complex arguments.
Use cmath instead:

>>> import cmath
>>> cmath.exp(1j*cmath.pi)
(-1+1.2246063538223773e-016j)
>>>

> It does work if you do it like this:
>
> >>> math.e**(1j*math.pi) (-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)

Or, in this case, use the builtin pow(), which looks for a __pow__ method,
which is the same thing "**" does.  Math libraries in general can return a
better result for exp(x) than e**x, though, since the latter form uses a
machine approximation to e as the base.

> So why not math.exp(complex)?

The basic thought is that most Python users don't know or care about complex
numbers, so it's better to give them an exception than have, e.g., sqrt(-1)
or asin(10) return a surprising result.  The relatively rare users who are
comfortable working with complex numbers can use them by importing the cmath
library.





From skip at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 10:26:49 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:26:49 -0500
Subject: Mandrake Linux 9: Why isn't bsddb working?
In-Reply-To: <bkb385$r8u2n$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bka45f$q6rg1$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>
        <mailman.1063820907.15026.python-list@python.org>
        <bkb385$r8u2n$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16233.49321.372854.178783@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> What might I have done wrong, and/or what should I do to fix it? 

    Skip> You probably don't have the necessary -devel RPM installed.

    >> That might have been true while I was using the rpm package.

    >> But currently I'm using the source package Python-2.3.tgz.

Doesn't matter.  The _bsddb module can't be built if the relevant header
files and libraries are not in place.

Skip




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 08:30:36 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:30:36 +0100
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <877k46e0sz.fsf@pobox.com>

hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth) writes:
[...]
> of doing right now. So yes I would allow both: within each ";" separated
> index group, the current syntax (whatever it is) would apply.

Ain't going to happen.  If you want that kind of thing without forking
your own version of Python, Numeric/numarray is the closest you'll get
(no special syntax, but lots of useful functions and 'ufuncs').


[...]
> While we are at it, I also don't understand why sequences can't be
> used as indices. Why not, say, l[[2,3]] or l[(2, 3)]? Why a special 
[...]

I'd guess you can subclass numarray's arrays and get this behaviour.
Or simply write your own sequence object and override __getitem__.

I'd guess it's highly unlikely ever to be part of the standard
sequence protocol, though.


John



From sbabbitt at commspeed.net  Fri Sep 19 00:39:54 2003
From: sbabbitt at commspeed.net (Tom B.)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:39:54 -0700
Subject: [newbie] Manipulating Dates
References: <3cad211d.0309170822.b31822@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1063946636.247431@news.commspeed.net>

"Elliot Clifton" <ec at clif2.com> wrote in message
news:3cad211d.0309170822.b31822 at posting.google.com...
> X-No-archive: yes
>
> Hi,
>
> How do I do the following with the Date object:
>
> newDate = oldDate + 3 months
>
> What would that be in Python code?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Elliot

In python 23 the datetime module if for date calculations

import datetime

some_date = datetime.date(2003,9,18)
add_date = datetime.timedelta(weeks=12)
new_date = some_date + add_date


>>> new_date
datetime.date(2003, 12, 11)

Tom






From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Sep 23 05:05:39 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:05:39 +0200
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064300795.6408.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org> <bkcgfm$gu1$1@news.island.liu.se> <mailman.1064300795.6408.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f700cd8$0$97228$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Thomas Bellman wrote:

>>Or perhaps you should tell us *why* you believe you need to check
>>if the computer is connected to the Internet or not.  Then we can
>>go directly to telling you that it is a bad idea, and suggest what
>>you should do instead. <0.5 wink>


*I* would like to use it to run a service in the background on my 
Windows machine checking the machines ip adress perhaps once an hour, 
and if it was different than it is supposed to be, it should send an 
email to my mail adress containing the time and the ip adress.

That should make it possible to make a stolen computer "phone home" with 
enough data to track it down.

But if it tries to call up on a modem, it has sort of given itself up. 
An the new "owner" might get suspicious.


regards Max M





From user at domain.invalid  Tue Sep 30 19:17:29 2003
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:17:29 GMT
Subject: HTMLgen docs, tutorial
Message-ID: <f8e317ba84473a16117f953db6f06fcd@news.teranews.com>

Checking out HTMLgen, I find the manual
to be quite terse, and difficult to crack.

Are there any examples or tutorials available
for this package?

Thanks,

Tobiah




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Sat Sep 20 15:33:22 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:33:22 +0100
Subject: Mutable strings
In-Reply-To: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <200309202033.22736.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Saturday 20 Sep 2003 6:40 pm, Gordon Airport wrote:
> Has anyone suggested introducing a mutable string type (yes, of course)
> and distinguishing them from standard strings by the quote type - single
> or double? As far as I know ' and " are currently interchangeable in all
> circumstances (as long as they're paired) so there's no overloading to
> muddy the language. Of course there could be some interesting problems
> with current code that doesn't make a distinction, but it would be dead
> easy to fix with a search-and-replace. And which would be the default
> return type for functions returning strings...
> It looks like there are ways of handling this by digging around in the
> modules for more basic types, but it would be much nicer to have it
> available at 'user level'.


Mutable strings are one thing that I missed, initially, when I first started 
using Python.  After a while, as the "Pythonic" way of doing things sank in, 
I realised that Python doesn't *need* mutable strings.

Python strings (and integers and floats) are all immutable for a very good 
reason:  dictionaries can't reliably use mutable objects as keys.  At first, 
this seemed rather like "the tail wagging the dog"...  however, once I fully 
understood the % (percent) string operator, and the ability to efficiently 
convert strings into lists and back, my anxiety went away.   These cover most 
usage of strings that might convince you you need mutability.

As for the suggestion that the kind of quote used should determine whether or 
not a string is mutable, I sort of /half/ agree.  On one hand, making (say) 
the apostrophe mean mutable and the double quote mean immutable would break 
thousands of existing applications - for end users, "a simple search and 
replace" is simply not feasable!  Furthermore, the meaning of the following 
snippet would be subtly (and possibly dangerously) changed:

----8<-----
    s1="this is an 'immutable' string"
    s2='this is a "mutable" string'

    s3=s1.replace("'",'"')+" and "+s2.replace('"','"')   # replace quotes with
   # apostrophes and vice-versa

    d1={s3:(s1,s2)}
----8<-----

Q1) What type will s3 be?
Q2) What happens to s2?  As it's mutable, shouldn't it do the replacement 
"in-line"?
Q3) Will the assignment of d1 succeed?  If it fails, wouldn't that be 
confusing?

On the other hand, Python already has this type distinction for raw and 
unicode strings (r"..." and u"...", respectively).  If it were to be adopted, 
I would be ok with an m"..." type of string, which could be barred from being 
a dictionary key.   This would open up a can of worms wrt the other immutable 
types, too: would we end up with:

----8<-----
    a=1234567m # a mutable integer
    b=1234567.89m # a mutable float
    c=123456789012345678901234567890Lm # a mutable long integer
    d=123+456jm # a mutable complex number
    e=m(1,2,3,4,5,6,"a","b","c") # a mutable tuple !!! :-p
----8<-----

This could start a flame-war/heated debate on the scale of the ternary 
operator PEP!

Maybe there's a project for you (and a good introduction to a practical 
application for new-style Python classes to boot)!  

I'm sure people have written this type of thing in the past - and in some 
situations, it's bound to be useful, but I think it should be kept as a 
separate module, so that you have to *declare* your usage of this /strange/ 
behaviour to the reader; "explicit is better than implicit".

Remember, Mohammed had to go *to* the mountain, not the other way round! 

hth,
-andyj







From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Sep 16 11:47:11 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:47:11 GMT
Subject: Duck Typing
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063720351.23661.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3gG9b.12137$3Y2.2543@news2.central.cox.net>

"Oren Tirosh" <oren-py-l at hishome.net> wrote ...
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 02:01:18AM -0700, srijit at yahoo.com wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > I have been seeing this term "duck typing" for quite sometime now. It
> > will be nice if one of us can give an example in Python demonstrating
> > duck typing and/or link to some Python references.
>
> class Duck:
>     def quack(self):
>         print "Quack!"
>
> class MeWearingSillyDuckOutfit:
>     def quack(self):
>         print "ummm... Quack!"
>
> def make_it_quack(obj):
>     obj.quack()
>
> a = Duck()
> b = MeWearingSillyDuckOutfit()
> make_it_quack(a)
> make_it_quack(b)
>

exquacktly [ducks and runs]

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sun Sep 28 23:53:31 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 04:53:31 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <kc8fnvsl30g32q4porpv25f1c7j0lj29il@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:58:45 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger"
<vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

>Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.
>Basically, the idea looks like this:

I have one last suggestion to make on this. Instead of adding a method
to the container, possibly it should be added to the iterator.

If the iterator class was roughly equivalent to the following...

  class Iter (object) :
    def __init__ (self, p_Src) :
      "Keep ref to container to iterate, plus other setup stuff."
      self.Src = p_Src
      ...

    def __iter__ (self) :
      "Allow iterator to behave as iterable for convenience"
      return self

    def reverse (self) :
      "Set reverse-order iteration mode"
      ...
      return self

    def next (self) :
      "Get next item"
      ...

We could write...

  for i in iter (seq).reverse () :

Possible advantages being...

1.  The need for/existence of an iterator is made explicit by the
    already familiar 'iter' call.

2.  Because the 'reverse' method is applied to the iterator rather
    than the container, the existing spelling can be used without
    worries about iterating over strings (or user classes) that
    already have a 'reverse' method.

3.  It's an extensible approach (other 'iterator modifiers' could be
    defined in much the same way, e.g. range restriction) yet at the
    same time both simple and lightweight.

The xrange and enumerate classes would probably also adopt the
'reverse' spelling for consistency...

  for i in xrange(10).reverse() :
    ...


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From NOSPAM__nabugoon__ at __moor.pe.krNOSPAM  Wed Sep 24 09:41:17 2003
From: NOSPAM__nabugoon__ at __moor.pe.krNOSPAM (Charlie Kim)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:41:17 +0900
Subject: unknown charset dialog(wxPython problem)
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.24.13.41.17.55650@__moor.pe.krNOSPAM>

http://gnome.or.kr/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=gnome-apps&id=aks

Why that dialog box appear whenever run wxPython program?
any idea?

TIA.



From bblancett at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 09:12:00 2003
From: bblancett at hotmail.com (Bill)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 06:12:00 -0700
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com> <KI1ab.25228$dy5.1507439@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <4fd6e92.0309180512.c860a31@posting.google.com>

Thanks for your response Rudy I think you put me on the right track.
But when I ran your script I still got the following errors:
______________Errors_________________________________________________________
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Program Files\Python22\ImgAndText.py", line 41, in ?
    attach = getAttachment(path, filename)
  File "C:\Program Files\Python22\ImgAndText.py", line 15, in
getAttachment
    fp = open(path, 'rb')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'C:\\Email\test.txt'
_____________________________________________________________________________

My question to you is what version of Python are you using (I am using
2.2.2.)?
Are you using the Windows version (I am using Windows)? If you are
using the Windows version where do you have your Python folder located
(Mine is c:\Program Files\Python22\) ? These are my system parameters.
And here is the code that I used. It is exactly like your code but I
changed the TO,FROM,Subect, path (full pathname including filename)
and also the SMTP server like you suggested. Here it is posted below:
______________Code Snippet________________________________________________
import smtplib
import mimetypes
from email.Encoders import encode_base64
from email.MIMEAudio import MIMEAudio
from email.MIMEBase import MIMEBase
from email.MIMEImage import MIMEImage
from email.MIMEMultipart import MIMEMultipart
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText

def getAttachment(path, filename):
     ctype, encoding = mimetypes.guess_type(path)
     if ctype is None or encoding is not None:
         ctype = 'application/octet-stream'
     maintype, subtype = ctype.split('/', 1)
     fp = open(path, 'rb')
     if maintype == 'text':
         attach = MIMEText(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
     elif maintype == 'message':
         attach = email.message_from_file(fp)
     elif maintype == 'image':
         attach = MIMEImage(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
     elif maintype == 'audio':
         attach = MIMEAudio(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
     else:
         print maintype, subtype
         attach = MIMEBase(maintype, subtype)
         attach.set_payload(fp.read())
         encode_base64(attach)
     fp.close
     attach.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment',
filename=filename)
     return attach


msg = MIMEMultipart()
msg['From'] = 'bblancett at hbu.edu'
msg['To'] = 'bblancett at hbu.edu'
msg['Subject'] = 'here is your attachment'
path = 'C:\Email\test.txt'
filename = 'test.txt'
attach = getAttachment(path, filename)
msg.attach(attach)

server = smtplib.SMTP('fc.hbu.edu')
server.sendmail('bblancett at hbu.edu', 'bblancett at hbu.edu',
msg.as_string())
server.quit()
___________________________________________________________________________


Rudy Schockaert <rudy.schockaert at pandora.be> wrote in message news:<KI1ab.25228$dy5.1507439 at phobos.telenet-ops.be>...
> Bill wrote:
> > I am trying to have the capability to email attachments. Specifically
> > I want to be able to email a specific attachment that I name that may
> > be a PDF document, text doc, etc. I already have a working piece of
> > code that emails jpg attachments but does not work with any other
> > types of attachments. Could someone tell me how to modify this code to
> > send other types of attachments like the one's stated above(especially
> > PDF's)? Also how do I determine the name of the attachment? Right now
> > it defaults to Attach0. Here is the current code I have below:
> > _________________________________________________
> > import sys, smtplib, MimeWriter, base64, StringIO
> > 
> > message = StringIO.StringIO()
> > writer = MimeWriter.MimeWriter(message)
> > writer.addheader('Subject', 'The Text test')
> > writer.startmultipartbody('mixed')
> > 
> > # start off with a text/plain part
> > part = writer.nextpart()
> > body = part.startbody('text/plain')
> > body.write('This is a picture of chess, enjoy :)')
> > 
> > # now add an image part
> > part = writer.nextpart()
> > part.addheader('Content-Transfer-Encoding', 'base64')
> > body = part.startbody('image/jpeg')
> > #body = part.startbody('text/plain')
> > base64.encode(open('c:\email\chess01.jpg', 'rb'), body)
> > 
> > # finish off
> > writer.lastpart()
> > 
> > # send the mail
> > smtp = smtplib.SMTP('fc.hbu.edu')
> > smtp.sendmail('bblancett at hbu.edu', 'bblancett at hbu.edu',
> > message.getvalue())
> > smtp.quit()
> > __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Wouldn't it be a lot easier to use the email module?
> 
> This is a snippet of how I send attachments (simply replace 
> TO,FROM,Subect, path (full pathname including filename) and filename 
> with relevant data):
> 
> import smtplib
> import mimetypes
> from email.Encoders import encode_base64
> from email.MIMEAudio import MIMEAudio
> from email.MIMEBase import MIMEBase
> from email.MIMEImage import MIMEImage
> from email.MIMEMultipart import MIMEMultipart
> from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
> 
> def getAttachment(path, filename):
>      ctype, encoding = mimetypes.guess_type(path)
>      if ctype is None or encoding is not None:
>          ctype = 'application/octet-stream'
>      maintype, subtype = ctype.split('/', 1)
>      fp = open(path, 'rb')
>      if maintype == 'text':
>          attach = MIMEText(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
>      elif maintype == 'message':
>          attach = email.message_from_file(fp)
>      elif maintype == 'image':
>          attach = MIMEImage(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
>      elif maintype == 'audio':
>          attach = MIMEAudio(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
>      else:
>          print maintype, subtype
>          attach = MIMEBase(maintype, subtype)
>          attach.set_payload(fp.read())
>          encode_base64(attach)
>      fp.close
>      attach.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment',
> 			filename=filename)
>      return attach
> 
> 
> msg = MIMEMultipart()
> msg['From'] = FROM
> msg['To'] = TO
> msg['Subject'] = SUBJECT
> attach = getAttachment(path, filename)
> msg.attach(attach)
> 
> server = smtplib.SMTP(MAILSERVER)
> server.sendmail(FROM, [TO], msg.as_string())
> server.quit()



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Fri Sep  5 08:39:38 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 14:39:38 +0200
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com> <VUidncLV5oQd88qiU-KYvw@comcast.com> <bj7sr5$jd8$04$1@news.t-online.com> <bj9i3h$kbd$03$1@news.t-online.com> <tyfsmnbo1r4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <tyfoexzo1dh.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> writes:

> OK, here's a variaton on the theme, just wraps the object in-place in
> a way which makes it return self.

I meant "makes any calls to methods return the original object in its
new state."

> This way you can get the desired effect on any object you get,
> without pre-meditation, so you can still fit the call chain on one
> line (wasn't that the point?)

Of course, the chaining should work in Stephan's example too.



From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Thu Sep 11 07:38:26 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 04:38:26 -0700
Subject: Python C extension: Value different if passed as list than if passed as number
References: <3f5dc178.0309101343.256bb7f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309110338.5422b072@posting.google.com>

Hello Anand,

> I have a C extension to a dll function.
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

HTH.
Miki



From dan at nawaragroup.com  Wed Sep 17 13:14:28 2003
From: dan at nawaragroup.com (Dan Nawara)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:14:28 -0500
Subject: GTK problems on gnome-python install
Message-ID: <1063818868.3843.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>

when installing gnome-python I get the following error.... 

*** 'pkg-config --modversion gtk+-2.0' returned 2.2.4, but GTK+ (2.2.1)
*** was found! If pkg-config was correct, then it is best
*** to remove the old version of GTK+. You may also be able to fix the
error
*** by modifying your LD_LIBRARY_PATH enviroment variable, or by editing
*** /etc/ld.so.conf. Make sure you have run ldconfig if that is
*** required on your system.
*** If pkg-config was wrong, set the environment variable
PKG_CONFIG_PATH
*** to point to the correct configuration files
no
configure: error: maybe you want the gtk-gnome-1-2 branch?

I'm a relative newbie, so can't figure out how to find the right gtk can
anyone help me?

/Dan  






From anthony at python.org  Tue Sep 30 06:37:16 2003
From: anthony at python.org (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:37:16 +1000
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.2, release candidate 1
Message-ID: <200309301037.h8UAbGhY029290@localhost.localdomain>

On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
happy to announce the release of Python 2.3.2 (release candidate 1).

Python 2.3.2 is a bug-fix release, to repair a couple of build problems
and packaging errors in Python 2.3.1. Assuming no major problems crop up,
a final release of Python 2.3.2 will follow later this week.

For more information on Python 2.3.2, including download links for
various platforms, release notes, and known issues, please see:

    http://www.python.org/2.3.2

Highlights of this new release include:

  - A bug in autoconf that broke building on HP/UX systems is fixed.

  - A bug in the Python configure script that meant os.fsync() was 
    never available is fixed.

Highlights of the previous major Python release (2.3) are available     
from the Python 2.3 page, at                                            

    http://www.python.org/2.3/highlights.html

Many apologies for the flaws in 2.3.1 - the final 2.3.2 release should
address the problems.

Enjoy the new release,
Anthony

Anthony Baxter
anthony at python.org
Python 2.3.2 Release Manager
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team)




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Sep 19 15:42:04 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:42:04 -0400
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
References: <mailman.1063995987.26144.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u1GdncaR_NqRwfaiXTWJhg@comcast.com>

<python at sarcastic-horse.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063995987.26144.python-list at python.org...
> The only problem is that I have no idea how to override operators in
> python.  Can anyone give me a few trivial examples of how it is
done?

Look up 3.3 Special method names & 3.3.6 Emulating numeric types in
ref manual.

> And, on a completely unrelated note, I am getting a truly amazing
amount
> of spam today.  Anyone else?

As in over 1000 fake Microsoft Updates with virus attachments?

Terry J. Reedy





From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 18 08:33:38 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:33:38 +0200
Subject: DLL info
References: <b03da24326888105a23a49b85f0660bb@news.meganetnews.com> <ubrtis5qt.fsf@inout.no>
Message-ID: <8yomff8d.fsf@python.net>

Syver Enstad <syver at inout.no> writes:

> "Ladv?nszky K?roly" <lk at digicart.hu> writes:
>
>> Could someone suggest me how to gather various information (version number
>> etc.) from a Windows DLL?
>> Thanks for any help,
>
> I looked at win32 all but it seems the functions aren't exposed
> there. Grap ctypes by Thomas Heller and the MSDN Platform SDK
> documenation. 

Right. There's even a sample (samples\Windows\VersionInfo.py) in the
source distribution.

Thomas



From maney at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 18:11:13 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 22:11:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bjdm21$nr2$1@wheel2.two14.net>

John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:
> [...]
>> Hofstadter: Goedel Escher Bach

> Even better hospital reading material: Metamagical Themas.  Fantastic
> stuff.

At the risk of ticking someone, I'd have to suggest that the
Metamagical Themas columns are his slightest work.  Or perhaps we
aren't disagreeing if you wanted to suggest something lighter as better
for the circumstances.

GEB remains my favorite Hofstadter as a book to sit down and read from
end to end.  For something that's a weightier distraction, his _Fluid
Concepts and Creative Analogies_ is a fascinating look at the reaserach
work he and his co-conspirators were engaged in all those years.

Branching out to nearby places in meme-space (and books I have at hand
so as to cite correctly), Hofstadter and Dennett's _The Mind's I:
Fantasies and Reflections on Self & Soul_ "explore[s] the meaning of
self and consciousness through the perspectives of literature,
artificial intelligence, psychology, and much more."  Hey, how can you
not love a book that includes pieces by Jorge Luis Borges, Raymond Smullyan,
Stainslaw Lem, and John Searle... and many more?

Thinking of and fetching those titles made me think of Dennett's
_Consciousness Explained_ and _Darwin's Dangerous Idea_, about which I
will say little but that I found them both engrossing, stimulating, and
provoking; they are also somewhat relevant to programs and systems
design, perhaps most directly for the vision of the true _vastness_ of
design-space.

Hmmm.  Guess I won't need to go to the library this weekend after all
unless those CDs are due back...

-- 
Remember the refrain:  We always build on the past;
the past always tries to stop us.  Freedom is about stopping the past,
but we have lost that ideal.  -- Lawrence Lessig



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 20:21:03 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:21:03 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com> <bjo9so$4k1$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <v0fvlvcrh3ooon3hb6ecif6u706f0fhval@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:50:29 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> However, it would probably catch a very substantial portion of real
>> accidental side-effect errors.
>
>It may be a matter of taste, but I think it will cause a *very* substantial
>portion of side effect errors. A simple example:
>
>def nested(ref o):
>    o = ReadOnly(o)
>
>def fun(o):
>    nested(ref o)
>    # so glad we can do no harm to o...riginal
>
>x = C()
>fun(x)
>x.attr = newValue # oops

I think theres a little error here (or you're interpreting the ref
differently to me). Basically...

>def fun(o):
>    nested(ref o)
>    # so glad we can do no harm to o...riginal

At this point, the parameter 'o' has been rebound to the read only
proxy so no changes can be made to it after this point in the
function, but...

>x = C()
>fun(x)

'fun' isn't using a 'ref' parameter, so 'x' is not being rebound to
the read only proxy. Therefore...

>x.attr = newValue

this will still run, and will still have the accidental side-effect.


>To go back to your container example, if copying is costly and only
>sometimes necessary, wrap the item into a copy-on-write proxy for every
>logically distinct but physically identical instance. That decision should
>be explicit rather than hidden as a side effect of a container class.

Maybe, though as you may notice in my reply to Erik Max Francis I'm
rethinking that decision. It can be handled a different way by making
a class responsible for deciding whether to copy or not - e.g. the
Builder class I used in that reply.

Looking at your example above, I see further evidence that the
rationale is false. Basically, it would be too easy to forget to
ensure the 'ref' was used in every method where it was needed - having
the rebinding to a proxy in a private internal method called by the
public methods would give a false sense of security.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep 18 17:09:35 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:09:35 +0200
Subject: needs help in how to translate &#8820; and &#8821;
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063835363.3580.python-list@python.org>
References: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85FCEB35@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com> <mailman.1063835363.3580.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkd6ub$uau$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> (I think that's a less-than symbol, "<" above an equivalent symbol (~)
> with a vertical bar through it, but I really can't tell in this font...)

While this is all true, I believe the OP *meant* to talk about &8220;
and &8221; respectively:

 >>> unicodedata.name(unichr(8220))
'LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK'
 >>> unicodedata.name(unichr(8221))
'RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK'

which, in some badly-designed font, may render as plain quotation marks
(and the OP indicated that he thinks those were plain quotation marks).

See http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2000.pdf for fonts that better
show the difference; the characters are U+201C and U+201D, respectively.

Regards,
Martin

P.S. This thread shows why it is better to literally copy-and-paste
into Usenet articles, instead of typing all program text in again.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 10:00:58 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:00:58 +0100
Subject: A fistful of proxies.
Message-ID: <3F70521A.EA2156C2@hotmail.com>

Greetings all,

A few months ago I said I'd put together a page listing all of the
python HTTP proxies that I knew of. And now the time has come.....

http://xhaus.com/alan/python/proxies.html

I'll be keeping that page up to date as much as I can, so please feel
free to contact me with updates, corrections, etc.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan

PS: Don't bother trying to contact me via the hotmail address above:
it's swamped with virus laden emails sent out by braindead AV software
to inform me that messages I never sent could not be delivered. It
wouldn't be so bad if they didn't send the 150K virus payload
attachment with *every* *single* *one* >:-(



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Sep 30 13:49:59 2003
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:49:59 -0400
Subject: Threading and Windows.
In-Reply-To: <m34qyuqxzf.fsf@ieee.org>
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <33803989.0309300315.7e132c0@posting.google.com> <m34qyuqxzf.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <3f79c219$0$576$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

If you are using wxPython you might want to check out this little package:

http://staffa.wi.mit.edu/people/kelley/

look for LongRunningTasks at the bottom.

-brian




From xavim at fqingenieria.es  Thu Sep 25 03:57:49 2003
From: xavim at fqingenieria.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Xavier_Mart=EDnez?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:57:49 +0200
Subject: getting a value from a web-page
References: <000d01c38306$b2888640$1603a8c0@pc22>
Message-ID: <004e01c3833a$b99509c0$0102a8c0@xavim>

>Is it possible to get a row from a text-file? This text-file is located in a web page.

To get a file from a web server, you can use the 'urllib' module.  For instance:

>>> import urllib
>>> f = urllib.urlopen('http://www.google.com/robots.txt')

The object returned 'f', is file-like, i.e., you can 'read()', 'readline()', etc.  To get
line no.3, you can do:

>>> for i in range(3):
...     line = f.readline()
... 
>>> line
'Disallow: /groups\n'

>And a value from an excel located in a web-server? (Sheet1!cell A1)

You will probably need to download the excel file to a temporary file 
(you can use 'urllib', see 'tempfile' module for temporary files creation),
and then use Excel COM automation to get the sheet (for this, you can
ask at the python-win32 at python.org list.

Hope this helps.




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Sep 26 05:33:24 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:33:24 +0100
Subject: Q: How to Change Pmw.ComboBox width ??
In-Reply-To: <20030926041434.4943182a.colarte@telesat.com.co>
References: <20030926041434.4943182a.colarte@telesat.com.co>
Message-ID: <1064568803.24328.1.camel@m-franklin>

On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 10:14, Camilo Olarte wrote:
> Hello list, 
> I was trying to make a Pmw.ComboBox and while using it i
> needed to change its width. 
> I tried to configure it's inner components  directly like _listbox.config 
> but nothing changes.. 
> By default in my computer this combobox width is of 12 (characters)
> and since I am showing number of the month i need only 3 characters.
> i could use a Pmw.Counter but my boss don't likes it's arrows  :(   ...
> 
> Here is some sample code of what i'm doing.
> 
> <PYTHON>
> import Tkinter, Pmw
> class DemoCombo:
>     def __init__(self, parent):
>         parent.configure(background = 'white')
>         arrmes = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12] 
>         # Create and pack the dropdown ComboBox.
>         self.dropdown = Pmw.ComboBox(parent,label_text = 'Month:',
>                  labelpos = 'n',scrolledlist_items = arrmes,
>                  scrolledlist_usehullsize = 1,)

You need to configure the Entry widget.....


entry_width = 3


so  

self.dropdown = Pmw.ComboBox(parent, label_text = 'Month:',
                 labelpos = 'n', scrolledlist_items = arrmes,
                 scrolledlist_usehullsize = 1, entry_width = 3)


Regards
Martin

-- 
Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>





From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Fri Sep  5 11:18:41 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 15:18:41 GMT
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bja6rb$h4b$1@svr8.m-online.net>
Message-ID: <hawkfish-89A86A.08182305092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

In article <bja6rb$h4b$1 at svr8.m-online.net>,
 "Stephan Schaumann" <stephan.delete-schaumann at online.de> wrote:

> "Richard Wesley" <hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com> schrieb:
> > I don't know if this is really a Python question of a MySQL question,
> > but i am hopen that there is enough overlap that someone can help me ;-)
> >
> > I have a unit test suite for our server that loads a clean database
> > image for many of the tests.  I use
> >
> > p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
> > p.write(sql_commands)
> 
> Do you p.close() when you are finished? Otherwise the connection opend by
> mysql will stay open.

Yes I did, to no avail.  I tried a number of things (including wait()) 
but nothing seems to clean the threads up but script termination (which 
clens them up almost instantly).  

Could this be a gc issue of some kind?

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"'You don't know how to manage Looking-glass cakes,' the Unicorn remarked.
 'Hand it round first, and cut it afterwards.'" 
    - Lewis Carroll, _Through The Looking-Glass And What Alice Found There_



From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Wed Sep  3 13:16:11 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 10:16:11 -0700
Subject: what is the easiest way to parse a file
References: <H_b5b.23$1o4.1177@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0309030916.25302aed@posting.google.com>

"tagarwal" <trilok.agarwal at oracle.com> wrote in message news:<H_b5b.23$1o4.1177 at news.oracle.com>...
> Is there a library in python which could be used for parsing file based upon
> various sections


Python has a module ConfigParser as part of its standard installation,
which can be used to parse files in an windows-ini format. The ini
format breaks information down into sections, so it may be what you
are looking for.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 23 22:05:07 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:05:07 -0400
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <vn1uus5a74ce3a@news.supernews.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107 at newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Raymond Hettinger:
> > Proposal
> > ========
> >
> > Add a method called iter_backwards() to sequence objects that can
benefit
> > from it.  The above examples then simplify to::
> >
> >     for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
> >         print seqn[i]
> >
> >     for elem in seqn.iter_backwards():
> >         print elem
>
> What about letting 'iter_backwards' be a builtin which
> looks for __riter__ and if it doesn't exist, get the length
> and do old-fashioned offset indexing?

There are objects that support iteration that
don't support len(), such as file objects.
This has got the advantage, of course, that it would
automatically work on all objects that support
an sequence-like protocol, though.

Frankly, I prefer the notion of a method.
Maybe make it a method of object that
automatically works on all new style
objects that support a sequence-like
protocol?

John Roth






From mwh at python.net  Tue Sep 30 10:31:40 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:31:40 GMT
Subject: build a static python executable on linux?
References: <blacgq$2qe$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <g7ehnv0r4okuds8jarvmqj6tnntlm0bvhs@4ax.com> <blafsa$3i5$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <7h3n0cmz724.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Alexandre Gillet <gillet at scripps.edu> writes:

> I am able to compile a static interpreter (using -static
> -static-libgcc) but I can not build the extensions correctly.
> When I  import an extensions (ie Tkinter, readline) I get undefine
> symbol error. It seems the symbol should be define in glibc but the
> extensions can't seems to find it.
> 
> Any ideas how I should built the extensions

By editing Modules/Setup, I suspect.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I'm sorry, was my bias showing again? :-)
                                      -- William Tanksley, 13 May 2000



From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep 20 17:44:06 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:44:06 +0200
Subject: Insert into text field?
References: <3394585.1064074283@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <bkihko$h4$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"Baltor" <member37516 at dbforums.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3394585.1064074283 at dbforums.com...
>
> How do I enter weapondescription with a space before it at the end of
> line 3. I tried this, but it is not working:
>
> self.text.insert(3.0, END, " ", weapondescription)

The syntax is:
   insert(start, end, string,tags, string, tags,....)

So weapondescription is considered the tag for " ".
Thus you could write e.g.:
  insert('3.0', 'end', " ", None, weapondescription)

Kindly
MichaelP








From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 15:24:33 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 13:24:33 -0600
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <p3idnVDIPrJm5caiU-KYgg@comcast.com> <bjg076$ajd$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bjg0lm$n94$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Aahz wrote:

> I'm leaning toward vetoing any such plan.  One problem with the Perl
> community is that it's not clear which web site to use for different
> purposes -- I think we should keep www.python.org as the universal URL.
> 
> That said, there likely will be a subsection of python.org that is aimed
> at managers, with a more designed look and more graphics; someone trying
> to convince a specific manager could point zir into the subsection.

+1

I totally agree with Aahz here.

We are, after all, talking about a _programming language_ here.  So how hard is
it to tell a PHB 'go to www.python.org/corporate'?  This leaves the rest of
people who might think that to learn about the python programming language,
www.python.org would be an ok starting point, happy.

A basic rule of design should always be:  a default (www.python.org) value
should satisfy the _majority_ of usage cases (not those with the most
money/corporate power/whatever).  Since the majority of visitors to the site
can arguably be thought to be developers, _that_ is the audience the default
url should target.  A visible 'corporate' link, along with a single-level url
(www.python.org/corporate, perhaps even aliased to corporate.python.org) can
satisfy the PHBs with minimal effort.

I'm happy to see the main site improve, but NEVER at the cost of making me, a
developer,  a second-class citizen there.  Any graphical/functional
enhancements to the main site are welcome, as long as they don't detract from
its core function: being the Python _Programming language_'s home.

Cheers,

f.



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep  4 14:36:12 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:36:12 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com>

Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> 
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last
> few years, about Python or IT in general.

This sounds like a good opportunity to read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
Maintenance" (by Robert Pirsig) if you have not already.  It's certainly
about IT, and ties into "The Zen of Python" (by Tim Peters) nicely, too. :-)

(Failing that, or if you've already read it, I'd suggest one of the XP
books, probably the white one as it was first, or the TDD book, and either 
way Kent Beck gets your money. :-)

-Peter



From jobs at grapevinepartners.com  Mon Sep  1 21:31:41 2003
From: jobs at grapevinepartners.com (Frank Steele)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 01:31:41 GMT
Subject: Atlanta Python jobs
Message-ID: <jobs-5412A3.21314401092003@news04.east.earthlink.net>

<a href="http://www.mtni.net">The Transit Grapevine</a> Atlanta, Georgia 
(Buckhead/Midtown)

Job Description: Python developers - We're seeking Python developers to 
help us build and manage a network of electronic signs scheduled to be 
deployed in U.S. transit stations. Contract work, on a 
project-by-project basis.

Job Requirements:

- Ideal candidate will have experience interfacing Python with databases 
and/or with networked devices.

- Must be comfortable working solo, or on a small team with minimal 
supervision.

- Strong preference for metro Atlanta residents, because of the need to 
develop against specialized hardware.

Contract position on a project basis. We will consider proposals from 
software development groups. We will begin interviewing as we receive 
resumes or proposals.

Contact: Frank Steele

E-mail contact: <a 
href="mailto:jobs at grapevinepartners.com">jobs at grapevinepartners.com</A>

Please send resume, link(s) to previous project(s), hourly salary 
requirements.

Some info on the project can be found at: <a 
href="http://www.mtni.net">http://www.mtni.net/</a>



From edreamleo at charter.net  Mon Sep 29 12:31:05 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:31:05 -0500
Subject: A startup puzzle
Message-ID: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>

I've just about convinced myself there is no good, clean solution to the
following puzzle.  I wonder if you agree.

1. My app has a module called leoGlobals that contains often-used global
functions.  All of Leo's source files start with:

from leoGlobals import *

I don't want to discuss whether this is good style: it is simple and it
works well for me :-)

2.  All code accesses the singleton application object using the app()
method in leoGlobals.

3.  To make the code cleaner looking, I would really like the code to be
able to access an app global instead of the app() function.  This has
nothing to do with speed: it's simply that there are lots of references to
app() in the code, and there is soon going to be a lot more references to
app.gui.x() and app.gui.y() etc.

As a workaround, many methods and functions assign a = app(), but I would
like to avoid this step.

4. Alas, it does not seem possible to initialize an app global in
leoGlobals.  The reason is simple:

from leoGlobals import *

caches the value of app at the time the  import is done.  But the startup
code that creates the app "global" (really an attribute of the leoGlobals
module) must do _other_ imports.

For example, doing the following at the top of leoGlobals doesn't work:

import leoApp
app = leoApp.leoApp() # construct the app instance.

Indeed, the leoApp module will be imported before the assignment of app.
Moreover, the leoApp module does other imports, and all the app variables in
those modules will be uninitialized.

It would be horrible style to place detailed constraints on the order in
which modules get imported, and I'm not sure even that would work.

Any ideas for a clean solution?  Thanks.

Edward

P.S.  The solution must work in 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3.

EKR
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From felix_mcallister at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 11:59:22 2003
From: felix_mcallister at hotmail.com (Felix McAllister)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:59:22 +0100
Subject: SciTE
References: <221d8dbe.0309180716.17d73ae2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zDkab.32157$pK2.54196@news.indigo.ie>

Search google for tags2api.py and look at its cached version.

Felix.
> Hello,
> I am unable to access http://www.scintilla.org/tags2api.py?
> May I have a copy of the program?
> 
> Regards,
> Srijit



From gervasdouglas at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep  2 13:22:18 2003
From: gervasdouglas at yahoo.co.uk (Gervas)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 10:22:18 -0700
Subject: Creative New UserGroup
Message-ID: <b5c52eb7.0309020922.74cafe58@posting.google.com>

As you are all aware the Web has had a major impact on application
architectures.  In place of closed monolithic enterprise apps we are
experienceing radical new developments in distributed computing
structures.  Two salient recent developments are:

[1]	Web-facing n-tier client/server AppServers based mainly on J2EE
and .NET platforms;

[2]	The birth, overhype and hesitant growth of Web Services;

[3]	The promotion of Web Services has also caused vendors of
application software and 	the larger customers to become more aware of
Service-Orientated Architectures (SOA).

Database structures are also beginning to come into question as the
shortcomings of predominant RDBMS systems are increasingly being
exposed by new globalised application interactions.

With a view to addressing these issues and the simple question of
where do we go from here, I have just formed a new Next-Generation
Applications Architectures Group.  So why don't you come, have a look,
join and contribute to what promises to be a highly creative Group
without technology-as-a-religion shackles?!

You can find us at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n-gaa/

See you soon,

Gervas

Moderator

Next-Generation Application Architectures Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n-gaa/

SOA Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/

Jini/JavaSpaces Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jini_javaspaces/



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep  9 16:22:16 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:22:16 -0700
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at 
 runtime?
References: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake> <mailman.1063136777.9729.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F5E3678.9DDAEE73@alcyone.com>

Nick Welch wrote:

> exec("import %s" % modulename) ?

Much better:

	module = __import__(moduleName)

> class = getattr(modulename, classname)
> or
> class = globals()[classname]
> 
> and then:
> 
> an_instance = class()

You'll need to use a name other than class, since that's a keyword. 
Typically people use class_, klass, or cls.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ But when I reached the finished line / Young black male
\__/  Ice Cube



From ulope at gmx.de  Sat Sep  6 11:35:41 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:35:41 +0200
Subject: Help with a utility class and having a method call another method from within
References: <37500ed8.0309051159.1eef42c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjcv9i$hko62$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Ian" <2ianbutt at rogers.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:37500ed8.0309051159.1eef42c5 at posting.google.com...
>
>
> in file-->SampleClass.py
>
> class SampleClassd :
>
>     def __init__(self) :
>         self.test = 'a'
>
>     def testBob1(self, a) :
>         if a == 1:
>             return True
>         else:
>             return False
>
>     def testBob2(self, a) :
>         return SampleClassd().testBob1(a)

How about:

      def testBob2(self,a):
            return self.testBob1(a)

HTH

Cu Ulrich





From yaipa at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  6 01:23:30 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 22:23:30 -0700
Subject: ANN: Guis 1.4 release (GTK2 scriptable widget server)
References: <q5rsmnaok63.fsf@hector.lesours>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0309052123.7efebdb1@posting.google.com>

Basile,

Nice work, I don't know when I'll get a chance to try it, but I like
the model. I've been thinking as of late, if you can have web servers
why not GUI widget servers? Guess I now know the answer. You can.

So when do we get the 'drag-n-drop' forms. ;^)

Cheers,

  --Alan

Basile STARYNKEVITCH <basile-news at starynkevitch.net> wrote in message news:<q5rsmnaok63.fsf at hector.lesours>...
> Dear All,
> 
> This is to announce availability of Guis-1.4 (opensource under GPL)
> 
> 
> Guis widget server is a Gtk2 widget server. It listens on pipes for
> widget requests (in the Python or Ruby scripting languages), and emit
> replies or events in textual lines (e.g. Lispy, XML or plain token
> syntax). 
> 
> Actually, there are 2 different programs: ruguis is Guis for Ruby and
> pyguis is Guis for Python, sharing some common source code.
> 
> See http://freshmeat.net/projects/guis/ and
> http://www.starynkevitch.net/Basile/guisdoc.html and download
> http://www.starynkevitch.net/Basile/guis-1.4.tar.gz a 518832 byte
> gnuzipped source tarball of md5sum 5b5e5666a0b878adb170c626b44b5f87
> 
> Guis uses the PyGTK binding for Python to GTK2 and the ruby-gnome2
> binding for Ruby to GTK2.
> 
> Changlog since 1.3
>   * bug fixes, notably fixed coredump when shrinking read buffer 
>   * trace window use char wrap
>   * logfile ability
>   * support for Python2.2 & 2.3 and for Ruby1.8
>   * better support for gtk main loop inside & outside initial script
> 
> I'm CC-ing the PyGTK and rubygnome2 mailing lists
> 
> I'll be delighted by feedback!



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep  8 16:49:50 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:49:50 -0500
Subject: Disagree with proposed 2.4 behavior for %x formatting of signed i nts
In-Reply-To: <B028FA2A5D295B4DAB8865FAD974E8F1089F95@dleest06.itg.ti.com>
References: <B028FA2A5D295B4DAB8865FAD974E8F1089F95@dleest06.itg.ti.com>
Message-ID: <16220.60270.947867.617537@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Jason> Consider the following:
    >>> print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
    __main__:1: FutureWarning: %u/%o/%x/%X of negative int will return a
    signed string in Python 2.4 and up 0xC1F2C703

    Jason> If I understand the warning correctly then the following would
    Jason> happen after 2.4:

    >>> print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
    -1041053949

I think you misunderstand.  It will be signed, but still presented as hex.
Try googling for "futurewarning negative int" for a number of discussions on
the subject.

Skip




From j_k_wd at bellsouth.net  Fri Sep 19 22:36:41 2003
From: j_k_wd at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:36:41 -0400
Subject: How you chomp in python
In-Reply-To: <36504F2E352484458C5D574719DC8372BAC618@caex01.trans.corp>
References: <36504F2E352484458C5D574719DC8372BAC618@caex01.trans.corp>
Message-ID: <200309192236.42051.j_k_wd@bellsouth.net>

Strings in Python are immutable.

Any time you perform an operation that seems like it might change a string, 
what really happens is a new string is returned.

this:
string.rstrip(build_number)

returns your chomped string, but it's not being assigned to anything.  'Poor 
thing never had a chance ... :)

You probably want:

build_number = string.rstrip(build_number)

or the more preferred way:

build_number = build_number.rstrip()



On Friday 19 September 2003 9:43 pm, Fernando Armenta wrote:
> How you cut off the ^M at the end of a line? rstrip is not working.
>
>
>
> string.rstrip(build_number)
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
>
> -F





From stephen.no at spam.theboulets.net.please  Wed Sep  3 09:20:05 2003
From: stephen.no at spam.theboulets.net.please (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:20:05 -0500
Subject: Trouble with script fetching site
Message-ID: <3Zadnamljsa-dMiiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>

I'm trying to parse a url to set my hardware & system clock (linux).

Perhaps the best way to do this would be to use the urllib2 module to
convert a site to text, but since I haven't found that option yet, I did
this instead (which sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, and when it doesn't
seems to get hung up on line 4 -- os.popen oddity?):

#/usr/bin/env python
import os,sys

url = "http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Central/d/-6"
f = os.popen("lynx -dump " + url)
lines = f.readlines()

i = 0
for line in lines:
        lines[i] = line.strip()
        i += 1

for i in range(len(s)):
        if s[i].find("Right now") > -1:
                break

time = s[1]
day,month,year = s[2].split(',')
month = month.strip()
month = month.split(' ')
month = ' '.join([month[0][0:3],month[1]])
year = year.strip()

result = ' '.join([day, month, time, "CDT", year])
print "result is %s.\n" % result
command = 'date -u -s "' + result + '";hwclock --systohc'
print "Command is: \n\n%s.\n" % command

f = os.popen(command)
print f.read()

# updatetime.py
import: Unable to open file (os,sys).
/usr/local/bin/updatetime.py: line 4: url: command not found
/usr/local/bin/updatetime.py: line 5: syntax error near unexpected token `('
/usr/local/bin/updatetime.py: line 5: `f = os.popen("lynx -dump " + url)'

I'm fetching a site


-- 
Stephen      
              From here to there
             and there to here,
           funny things are everywhere.  -- Dr Seuss




From harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com  Fri Sep  5 12:37:05 2003
From: harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com (Harry Pehkonen)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 09:37:05 -0700
Subject: Coding Style:  Defining Functions within Methods?
Message-ID: <70df36e9.0309050837.1660cdf4@posting.google.com>

I have been defining new class methods when I'm trying to simplify
some code.  But I'm thinking I should just define functions within
that method because they aren't useful from the outside anyway. 
Example:


Before:

class Mess(object):
    def complicated(self, count):
        for i in count:
            self.do_loop(i)
    def do_loop(self, i):
        ...whatever...


After:

class Cleaner(object):
    def complicated(self, count):
        def do_loop(i)
            ...whatever...
        for i in count:
            do_loop(i)

The point is that do_loop is now not ``contaminating'' things.  I
suppose do_loop could be __do_loop, but it would still show up in
places where I don't think it should (such as dir(Mess)).

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Harry.



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 11:35:10 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:35:10 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:22:37 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

>David Abrahams wrote:
>   ...
>> Well, (understanding that you don't nececessarily agree with the
>> above) you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual C++
>> iterator protocol, 
>
>You mean there's an std::pair::begin etc?!  OK, I guess I'm even
>rustier on standard C++ than I thought I was -- I could have SWORN
>there wasn't.  (Std chapter & verse pls?  I plan to win bets based
>on this tidbit...!-).  So I guess the lack of those in gcc is a
>breach of the Standard on gcc's part...?

Somehow I think David is mistaken here - I cannot believe that
dereferencing an iterator returns a different datatype depending on
which item it happens to point to at runtime in statically typed C++,
and without that ability to dereference the iterator (1) I cannot see
the point of iterating through a pair, and (2) the 'iterator' would
not be a true iterator as C++ iterators have to comply with one of a
set of standard protocols (forward, bidirectional, random etc) which
all include subscripting.

Of course you can iterate through a container that holds std::pair
objects - you do that every time you iterate through an std::map - but
that isn't the same thing.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From mkbelloli at libero.it  Tue Sep 30 10:42:21 2003
From: mkbelloli at libero.it (Michele Belloli)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:42:21 +0200
Subject: Conversion problem in parse_multipart
Message-ID: <d93jnvofdj8v58ovfaoiaccmuc1etopcqu@4ax.com>

Hi folks...

I have a problem uploading a file to a web server.

I created an html page with a multipart/form-data form and used
cgi.parse_multipart function to obtain form data (and obviuosly
uploaded file).
I noticed that if I upload an excutable file, I obtain a file where
0x0a 0x0a, are converted in 0x0a and 0x2e.
Obviously this file is corrupted.

When I save the  file, I use 'wb' flags to create a binary file...

Analyzing the  file before cgi.parse_multipart, it's possible to
verify that it's correct but when this function tries to extract its
value, 0x0a 0x0a are converted in 0x0a and 02e.

Any suggestion?

Thanks a lot...




From bluheaven2 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  9 14:05:35 2003
From: bluheaven2 at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 11:05:35 -0700
Subject: Python Port to Swiss Ephemeris (swe_houses) Bug Report/Workaround
References: <734b753f.0309081421.1a1e180@posting.google.com> <vlq8gbru2981c8@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <734b753f.0309091005.42189e1c@posting.google.com>

> This will overlay memory, causing all kinds of not
> very interesting problems.
> You need to report this to the author.
> John Roth

It's nice to know there's a technical explanation behind this bug.
Thanks again for figuring it out, John. -Dave



From stuart at bmsi.com  Wed Sep 10 18:15:32 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:15:32 -0400
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F82A5.7DB9A717@alcyone.com> <3F5F9A02.D1A5ACAA@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.10.22.15.32.489745.31273@bmsi.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:39:14 -0400, achrist wrote:

> Erik Max Francis wrote:
>> 
>> Yep:
>> 
>>         generator.next()
>> 
> This style supports only output-driven processes.  The generator, being
> on the input side, is always the server, and the output side is always
> the client.  It doesn't fit the situation where the input is
> heterogeneous and input has to get spewed in several directions,
> depending on its content.

It does if you add a dispatcher framework.  There is a python project for
just such a framework, but I can't remember the name.  The idea is dirt
simple, but the implementation gets knarly with exceptions and such.

Found it - Charming Python 
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pythrd.html



From perry62fr at yahoo.fr  Sat Sep 27 03:11:42 2003
From: perry62fr at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?jonathan=20hunt?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:11:42 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: DDE Python-C++
Message-ID: <20030927071142.26415.qmail@web21503.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,
 
Have you try to coonect a DDEClient written in Python with a DDEServer written in C++Builder?
Both programs do separately but when the Python Client makes a request to the C++Server, this Server respond but format of response is unknown.
Have you documentation on function Request of Python object Server?
With all my thank.
 
you can send your response to perry62fr at yahoo.fr 



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran?ais !
Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail
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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep 15 17:49:21 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:49:21 -0500
Subject: Ways to improve this clock algorithm?
In-Reply-To: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com>
References: <33fbf9ec.0309151302.462db544@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030915214921.GP32270@unpythonic.net>

Well, this doesn't run on my system.  First, I had to change this line:
>             now = time.clock()
-             allseconds = int(now) = int(self.start)
+             allseconds = int(now) - int(self.start)
>             seconds = 0
[In all the excerpts, "-" is a line changed/removed from your version,
and "+" is a line changed/added in my version]

Then, I had to insert an 'import':
+ import time
+
> class ExampleTimer:
>     def __init__(self):

Then, this program kept printing "0 hrs 0 min 0 sec", because clock()
returns CPU time (not wall time) on Unix computers.  time.time() returns
seconds on all systems Python supports, according to the online
documentation. ("import time; help(time.time)")

>     def __init__(self):
-         self.start = time.clock()
+         self.start = time.time()

>         while 1:
-             now = time.clock()
+             now = time.time()

Finally, I'm not sure what your 'for n in range ...' code is intended to
do.  You can convert the number of seconds into the
hours/minutes/seconds more easily:
    # (Replacing the whole 'for' loop and the three asignments above it)
    # Take whole minutes and leave the seconds corresponding to the
    # fraction of minutes in seconds
    minutes = allseconds / 60
    seconds = allseconds % 60

    # Take whole hours and leave the minutes corresponding to the
    # fraction of the hour in minutes
    hours = minutes / 60
    minutes = minutes % 60
You could do this with the built-in function divmod(), as well:
    # (Replacing the whole 'for' loop and the three asignments above it)
    minutes, seconds = divmod(allseconds, 60)
    hours, minutes = divmod(minutes, 60)

You could test starting at different times by changing init:
-     def __init__(self):
-         self.start = time.clock()
+     def __init__(self, offset=0):
+         self.start = time.clock() - offset

Now, you can easily see whether the "rollover" to 1 hour works right:
- app = ExampleTimer()
+ app = ExampleTimer(60*60 - 1)
> app.run()  

Jeff




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 04:46:54 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:46:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Heisenberg strikes again!
References: <a82d9823.0309101254.39f8f05@posting.google.com> <nRM7b.311656$Oz4.100417@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <Xns93F36280758BDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"David C. Fox" <davidcfox at post.harvard.edu> wrote in 
news:nRM7b.311656$Oz4.100417 at rwcrnsc54:

>>     throwaway = matches[0]   # <--- Comment out this line
> 
> When comp is called with state == 0, matches is still referring to the 
> local list which is not empty (unless there were no matches to the 
> text), so this line does indeed do nothing.  However, when comp is 
> called with state != 0, this line refers to the global matches list, 
> which is empty, so it raises an IndexError, and the following line is 
> not reached.

Not quite true there. Whether or not state is 0, this line always tries to 
access the local variable 'matches'. If you assign to a variable anywhere 
in a function (and don't declare it global), then all accesses in the 
function are to the local variable, not the global.

Of course the effect is basically the same, the function throws an 
exception either way, its just a different exception.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Mon Sep  8 08:23:06 2003
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 05:23:06 -0700
Subject: Python documentation in Windows Help file format?
References: <pQU6b.4401$ZB4.1093@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0309080423.717b42b@posting.google.com>

Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message news:<pQU6b.4401$ZB4.1093 at reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> Seems to be missing?

RTFG:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=1303ed885493f11d&seekm=7876a8ea.0308311857.5e0a034c%40posting.google.com#link11
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=1303ed885493f11d&seekm=7876a8ea.0308311857.5e0a034c%40posting.google.com#link13



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Sep 23 17:05:55 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:05:55 -0400
Subject: load changes of subclasses
In-Reply-To: <bkpmki$4bc$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bkpmki$4bc$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <20030923210555.GA4825@intarweb.us>

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 04:47:19PM +0200, Tom wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a main program  that uses a lot of definitions in different classes.
> They are included like this:
> from subclass1 import *
> from subclass2 import *
> My problem is: whenever I make changes in one of the classes I have to 
> close and reopen the main program for the changes to take effect. This 
> is kind of annoying, because I always want to test if my changes are 
> correct and that's why I have to run the main program. Is there some 
> kind of a shortcut where I don't have to close and reopen the main program?

  Others have suggested how you might get changes on disk reflected in your
running app, so I'll skip that.

  Wanting to test if your changes are correct is a very good thing, and
doing that by running a program that uses those changes is also a pretty
handy idea.  But maybe running your *main* program isn't the best way to go
about it.  Many developers use an approach called "unit testing" to verify
that each component of their application works as it should.  This makes
testing easier because it removes the interactive component, because it
provides a fine grained indicator of which part of your application is
broken, and because unit tests can be run quickly and frequently, which is
especially handy when you're only changing a small part of a large
application.

  You can read more about unit testing on the Python website:

    http://python.org/doc/lib/module-unittest.html

  Jp

-- 
"The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt but it has
 always been nothing more than politics in disguise ... economics is a form
 of brain damage."  -- Hazel Henderson




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 23 11:11:13 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:11:13 -0500
Subject: a little OT: how to handle this email list?
In-Reply-To: <51397.199.169.240.132.1064323325.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
References: <51397.199.169.240.132.1064323325.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <16240.25233.590198.237887@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Matthew> My python folder fills up with several hundred emails every
    Matthew> day.  How do the rest of you handle all the traffic on this
    Matthew> list?  Do you delete everything at the end of every day?

Since you say "My python folder", I assume you already segregate the list's
mail to a separate folder.  Does squirrelmail have a 'k'ill command which
can delete all messages with the same subject?  Nobody is interested in all
topics, so when you decide a thread isn't interesting, just 'k'ill future
messages without reading them.  As a Unix/Mac person, I generally avoid most
obviously Windows-specific threads.  I may rue that decision if I ever need
to program Python on Windows to any significant degree.

Skip




From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep  6 03:43:37 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 07:43:37 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Jeg6b.32042$R32.992519@news2.tin.it>

Grant Edwards wrote:
   ...
>> Hence my comment that requiring it is more complex than not
>> requiring it.
> 
> No, it's more complex the Java/Ruby way, since you have to have
> two sets of rules for what a name means depending on whether
> you're inside a "normal" function or a method.  In Python
> there's just one set of rules -- mostly.

Java and Ruby have no "normal functions" -- just methods.  Ruby
has what may LOOK like ordinary functions, but they're methods
of the module object...


Alex




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 18:52:12 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:52:12 GMT
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <3F6F12A1.3010702@bu.edu> <mailman.1064246454.19668.python-list@python.org> <6e7b9822.0309221439.6dea760e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <w2Lbb.144454$R32.4648609@news2.tin.it>

Paul wrote:

> However, what if you don't want case sensitivity?  For example, to
> check if a file is a jpg, I do name[-3:].lower() == 'jpg'.  This will
> work with both foo.jpg and foo.JPG.
> 
> Is this slower than name.lower().endswith('jpg')?  Is there a better
> solution altogether?

timeit.py gives me 0.9 microseconds for the less maintainable
name[:-3].lower()=='jpg' vs 1.7 for name.lower().endswith('jpg')
[and over 3 for re's].  Point is, _do I *care*_?  How many millions
of filenames will I check, when the extra overhead of checking
a million filenames in the more maintainable way is less than a
second?  How long will it have taken me to get those millions
of filenames into memory in the first place?

If this operation IS on the bottleneck, and a 0.8 microseconds
difference matters, I'll do the slicing -- but 99 times out of 100
I'll do the .endswith instead (I'll _start_ that way 100 times out
of 100, and optimize it iff profiling tells me that matters...).


Alex




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Sep 13 04:55:07 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:55:07 +0200
Subject: JPEG comments and PIL
References: <87ekynnmz6.fsf@tanya.home.spb>
Message-ID: <bjum1j$2ec$1@sea.gmane.org>

Eugene Morozov wrote:

> Is it possible to manipulate JPEG comments using PIL? I
> didn't find corresponding methods in the PIL library. I
> just want to write yet another image viewer and editor
> (similar to gthumb only crossplatform and with better
> comment editing interface and web album generation
> feature ;)) which stores comments in the JPEG images
> themselves.

as of 1.1.4, PIL can read APP markers (see the app/applist attributes
of the Jpeg image object), but you cannot write them out again.

COM markers are not supported at all, but reading them should be trivial;
just change

    0xFFFE: ("COM", "Comment", Skip)

to

    0xFFFE: ("COM", "Comment", COM)

in PIL/JpegImagePlugin.py, and define this function before the
start of the MARKER table:

def COM(self, marker):
    s = self.fp.read(i16(self.fp.read(2))-2)
    self.app["COM"] = s # compatibility
    self.applist.append(("COM", s))

</F>







From delatorr at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Tue Sep 16 18:49:21 2003
From: delatorr at bioeng.ucsd.edu (John D)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 15:49:21 -0700
Subject: Extending the python language
Message-ID: <5696a130.0309161449.5944f7fa@posting.google.com>

I'm writing a class definition in python with some array atributes
from Numeric 2.0. I'm using UserArray, UserList, to subclass my
classes. But some of the methods I need to write in C mainly because
of computing speed. I need to pass to those C functions array and
lists objects that the C functions can access their contained values
like arrays and lists.
My question is that do I need to provide a python 'class' definition
to the C functions for those functions to be able to access these
subclassed classes and their attributes?
Is there software out there that can automate this particular
procedure?

Thanks,

John D.



From duduca007 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  4 12:59:32 2003
From: duduca007 at yahoo.com (Carlos Moreira)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:59:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PYTHONPATH x *.pth???
Message-ID: <20030904165932.63913.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com>

I want to install Python third packages in a
non-default directory.
What?s the better way?

   - PYTHONPATH variable?
   - *.pth files in site-packages?

I know that the two methos above are equivalents. But
what method will be keep in future Python releases
(for example)?

             []?s

Cadu


__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From sheila at spamcop.net  Mon Sep  1 12:35:24 2003
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:35:24 GMT
Subject: MySQLdb: execute query results...
References: <bit9de.1o4.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1062375303.22663.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <biv3t6.1mo.1@kserver.org>

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:14:00 -0500, mackstann <mack at incise.org> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1062375303.22663.python-list at python.org>:

> Looked in site-packages/MySQLdb/cursors.py, and it seems you are
> correct.
> 
> >>> from MySQLdb import cursors
> >>> help(cursors.BaseCursor.execute)
> 
> Help on method execute in module MySQLdb.cursors:
> 
> execute(self, query, args=None) unbound MySQLdb.cursors.BaseCursor
> method
>     Execute a query.
> 
> [...]
> 
>     Returns long integer rows affected, if any
> 
> HTH,

Thanks for the confirmation. I didn't look at the source code. :/

Much appreciated,


-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl  Fri Sep  5 09:58:41 2003
From: gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl (Grzegorz Staniak)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:58:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
Message-ID: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>

Hello,

I'm a newbie Python user, a systems administrator - I've been trying
to switch from Perl to Python for administrative tasks - and one thing 
I cannot understand so far is why I need the special 'self' (or anything
esle) argument in class method definitions. I might have missed an
explanation in the docs, a quick Google search did not help. Is there
somewhere on the web you could direct me to?

Thanks,

-- 
Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at zagiel.com.pl>



From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Sat Sep 13 13:17:00 2003
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:17:00 +0100
Subject: PyQt: Can't show PY variable in QT filedialog as initially parameter
In-Reply-To: <43e3984e.0309110814.7d759662@posting.google.com>
References: <43e3984e.0309110814.7d759662@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200309131817.00801.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Thursday 11 September 2003 5:14 pm, ulysses wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I use PyQt 3.8 non-commercial version in win32. I get a big question.
> I Can't show PY variable in QT filedialog as initially parameter.
>
> Code sample is following:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> fileName="test.avi"
>
> def saveSomething(aString):
>     dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(aString, "*.*", self, "FileDialog")
> or
>     dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(QString(aString), "*.*",
>                                         self, "FileDialog")
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> these code can't show corrent string.
>
> If I use string constant.
>    dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName("test.avi", "*.*", self, "FileDialog")
>
> Dialog show it correctly.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ulysses

Have you got a complete (but small) example that demonstrate's the problem?

Phil





From sylphaleya at hta.fhz.ch  Tue Sep 16 06:46:56 2003
From: sylphaleya at hta.fhz.ch (Manuel Huesser)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:46:56 +0200
Subject: Unicode Newbie
References: <20030909162009.0247ce9d.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch>
	<mailman.1063119495.15165.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030916124656.254a24ca.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch>

> > "\xfc\x12\x12\x12\x12\x12\x12" is an example for a 7
> > byte utf-8 string. But on encoding i get the following
> > error:
> >
> > UTF-8 decoding error: unsupported Unicode code range
> 
> Unicode supports ~2**20 code points (17*64k), not 2**31 characters.
> Your example is not a valid UTF-8 string.

Yep Unicode supports less characters than there are possible with
utf-8 (ucs range = 2 ** 31).

so there is no possibilty to support the full range of the ucs
character set with python?

Manuel



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Sun Sep 21 18:09:55 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:09:55 GMT
Subject: Server-side programming
References: <HAMab.1175$1l5.436@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3F6DCCEA.763D17C6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Tkpbb.115559$bo1.38587@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Alan Kennedy:

> AFAIK, the most effective way to prevent such attacks is to disable
> any quote characters that may be present in the password, so that they
> are treated as a part of the password string, not as delimiters in the
> SQL query string. For example
> ...
> Does anyone know of a more effective approach to preventing SQL
> injection attacks?

   Separate your parameters from the SQL and rely on the database to perform
the substitution like this:
   c.execute( \
   "select * from users where uname=:1 and pw=:2", \
    (username, password))

   This may also improve performance by allowing the database to cache the
preparation of the statement as it stays constant.

   Neil





From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 12:27:12 2003
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 09:27:12 -0700
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <O4WdneLsXo65WsaiXTWJjw@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0309080827.41dbcec0@posting.google.com>

> never come back to this site" etc... The odd thing is
> that we thought that the site was significantly more
> usable than before, after all the redesign was based on
> an extensive usability testing.
> 
> (It was a pretty cool experiment, observing users
> trough a one way mirror as they attempted  predefined
> tasks, multiple cameras and microphones tracking
> what users do, it is a great thing to do if you have
> the chance)

I second that - watching my first web-app usability study really
opened my eyes.  It's worth doing at any level.

> 
> It was pretty hard to digest this hate mail, it was as if these
> people had zero respect for all the hard work we've put in,
> in fact most email was actually very rude and rushed,
> yet the only common ingredient in all of these emails was
> the perceived infallibility of the authors themselves.

Try to remember that that email came from a very small percentage of
the community and that most users of Python are very grateful of the
work people put into Python and the community around it.  You'll get
goof balls wherever you go.



From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Tue Sep 16 00:09:47 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 21:09:47 -0700
Subject: PyQt: Can't show QFileDialog.getExistingDirectory in Python Thread, bug or not?
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309152009.451676e0@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I use QT nc,PyQt NC 3.8 in Win32 platform. python 2.3.
I need show getExistingDirectory in my program. I catch a question.

When I show a Dialog in a python function.it's ok. exp:

def showDirectory:
     dl=QFileDialog.getExistingDirectory('',None,
                                        'get directory',
                                         'choose directory',1)
     print str(dl)

When I call this function in a python thread. the whole program halted 
at once. It's seem a infinite loop. exp:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Main function start.....
    thread = Thread(target = next, args = [params, frmMain, doneflag])
    thread.setDaemon(false)
    thread.start()


def next(params, d, doneflag):
    dow = Download ()
    d.dow = dow
    dow.download(params, d.chooseFile, d.updateStatus, d.finished, d.error,     
    doneflag, 100, d.newpath)
    if not d.fin:
        d.failed()

def onChooseFile(self, default, bucket, f, size, dir, saveas):
        if saveas != '':
            dl = saveas
        else:
            if dir:
                dl=QFileDialog.getExistingDirectory('',None,
                                        'get directory',
                                        'choose directory',1)
            else:
                dl = QFileDialog.getSaveFileName(tempShow, "*.*", 
                                         self, "FileDialog")

It's very cute I can use QFileDialog.getSaveFileName. Why I can't use
dl=QFileDialog.getExistingDirectory. 

It's a Qt small bug??? 

Ulysses



From lefevrol at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 11 11:34:34 2003
From: lefevrol at yahoo.com (Olivier Lefevre)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 08:34:34 -0700
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com> <L%06b.18004$hE5.637245@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <51809ae4.0309110734.1e5d28be@posting.google.com>

> It's got over 1,000 books -- I doubt they can ALL be best-sellers,
> can they? 

What I mean is that it seems to have only language or API how-to kind
of books, i.e., those that appeal to working programmers, the largest 
audience. A contrario look under Computer Science, AI or Functional 
Programming: it's pitiful. Yet the CS book market is also large, 
courtesy of undergrad programs. So they may have 1K titles but the
coverage is very narrow nonetheless.

> Sure: just like it takes a really long time for the latest movies
> to become available at my local video rental shop 

I don't think that's relevant. The videos could hurt the theater
release, so the delay is deliberate; in the case of Safari it's
more likely to be mere logistics since printed and online versions
coexists throughout the lifetime of the book.

-- O.L.



From claird at lairds.com  Mon Sep  1 11:50:24 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:50:24 -0000
Subject: learning to program
References: <mailman.1062052883.23262.python-list@python.org> <3f4e6a44.1219503072@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vl6qm09a7drv2f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3f4e6a44.1219503072 at news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:36:08 +0200, "U. N. Owen"
><electricity at uymail.com> wrote:
>> Not TCI but TCL... It's another script language,
>> but it's not installed with Python. Here it
>> was just an example, so you don't need it for
>> the moment. If you are interested, go to
>> www.tcl.tk.
>> 
>
>That's correct. 
>
>But to add a clarifying explanation for why I included Tcl in the
>first place, Python up to version 1.5 came with a full Tcl/Tk
>installation bundled to enable Tkinter. After 1.6 they only
>shipped the libraries so the tutorial suggestion to play with Tcl
>suddenly became invalid :-(
			.
			.
			.
But not *much* invalid.  While I don't recommend it to 
the original poster, as he's a beginner, it might amuse
those with a little Python background to play with
  import Tkinter
  Tcl_script = "some Tcl script here"
  Tkinter.tk.eval(Tcl_script)
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw  Wed Sep 17 12:41:48 2003
From: fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (fortepianissimo)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
In-Reply-To: <16232.35495.501167.780179@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030917164148.12135.qmail@web16903.mail.tpe.yahoo.com>

But this created two lists (keys and dummy)? Compared to the filter()
method, which created a list and a new set, maybe your suggestion is
still a bit faster...

--- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>     fortepianissimo> I know I can do things like
>     fortepianissimo> s=Set(range(1,11))
>     fortepianissimo> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))
> 
>     fortepianissimo> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a
> list
>     fortepianissimo> which then must be converted back to a set. Any
> tips?
> 
> The only thing which comes to mind is:
> 
>     >>> s = sets.Set(range(1,11))
>     >>> s
>     Set([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10])
>     >>> keys = list(s)
>     >>> dummy = [s.discard(x) for x in keys if x%2]
>     >>> s
>     Set([2, 4, 6, 8, 10])
> 
> You still create a list, but don't create a second set.
> 
> Skip


__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 12:25:58 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:25:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <bkn12v$tns$06$1@news.t-online.com> <Xns93FEA7FBE3167duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <VOEbb.101641$hE5.3573494@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Xns93FEAFDF7AF24duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in 
news:VOEbb.101641$hE5.3573494 at news1.tin.it:

> Duncan Booth wrote:
>    ...
>> FWIW, I think something like this belongs in the standard library rather
>> than as a method on lists or a new builtin.
> 
> Definitely not a method on lists, we agree on that.  Problem is, there
> is no module in the standard library to collect "functions that are often
> useful but not QUITE often enough to warrant being built-ins" (and if
> there was, there are quite a few current built-ins I'd like to relegate
> into such an auxiliary/utilities module), so that finding a good place,
> other than built-ins, for such utility functions, is often a bother.
> 
So someone needs to write a PEP proposing such a module.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Sep 11 14:54:30 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:54:30 -0500
Subject: gdmodule clipping
Message-ID: <m21xundul5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

Does gd lib or gdmodule support clipping?  I would like to set a clip
rectangle and when I issue drawing commands (like im.polygon) have
only the part of the polygon inside the clip rectangle displayed.

Thanks,
John Hunter

gd-2.0.15
gdmodule-0.42




From mark at hahnca.com  Tue Sep  9 16:13:15 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:13:15 -0700
Subject: simple-mapi, python, and outlook express
Message-ID: <wvq7b.24518$n94.8695@fed1read04>

I want to add a feature to my about-to-be-released Python windows app that
allows me to send email with attachments.  I was hoping to use MAPI so that
my user doesn't have to deal with setting the mail server, proxy settings,
return mail address, etc. and could use their existing addr book (this app
is for dummies).  I first tried out CDO only to find out that recent outlook
installations haven't been installing that.  Then I went to the trouble to
get a pure MAPI send to work (if anyone wants that as an example, let me
know) only to find out that Outlook express doesn't support MAPI, it only
supports simple-MAPI.  Now I just found out that Python's win32all doesn't
support simple-MAPI.

AARRGGHH I really really hate windows (I feel better now).

Unless anyone can correct any of my assumptions above, or suggest any new
way to do this, I guess I'll just give up and put in the complete python
mail client and forget using their default mail client.





From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 17:00:28 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:00:28 +0100
Subject: singleton or Borg?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.14.22.00.44.145379.31787@presidency.com>
References: <pan.2003.09.14.22.00.44.145379.31787@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <200309152159.50102.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Sunday 14 Sep 2003 11:00 pm, Rajarshi Guha wrote:
> Hi, I'm having a little problem with understanding the working of a
> singleton and borg class. Basically I nedd an class whose state will be
> shared across several modules. I found the stuff on the ASPN cookbook but
> it does'nt seem to be working for me. I've included some code:
>
> Borg.py:
> --------
> class Borg:
>     __shared_state = {}
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.__dict__ = self.__shared_state
>         self.val = {}
>
> class Singleton(object):
>     def __new__(type):
>         if not '_the_instance' in type.__dict__:
>             type._the_instance = object.__new__(type)
>         return type._the_instance
>
> class Tester(Singleton):
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.val = {}
>
> t.py:
> -----
> import Borg,v
>
> x = Borg.Tester()
> x.val['a'] = 1
>
> print x.val
> v.func()
> print x.val
>
> v.py:
> -----
> import Borg
>
> def func():
>     y = Borg.Tester()
>     print y.val, '...from t.py'
>     y.val['a'] = 2
>     return
>
> I had expected to see:
> {'a':1}
> {'a':1} ...from t.py
> {'a':2}
>
> However I get
> {'a':1}
> {} ...from t.py
> {'a':2}
>
>
> Should'nt the instantiation of val in v.func() just use the val that was
> already created when it was instatntiated in t.py?
>
> I just cant seem to wrap my head around this oen, so any suggestions
> would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks

Rajarshi,

You define but never reference class Borg.Borg.  Borg.Tester imported by t.py 
and v.py is descended from class 'Borg.Singleton', which is in turn descended 
from built-in class 'object', i.e. this lineage is of 'new style classes'.  
Class 'Borg.Borg' is an old-style class; and inherits from nothing.  

Since 'Borg.Borg' is never referenced, nor any instances of it created, your 
'shared class variable' '__shared_state = {}'  never gets used.

Here's my take on this:
>>> class Borg(object):
	__shared={}
	def __init__(self):
		self.__dict__=self.__shared

----8<----		
>>> v=Borg()
>>> v.__shared={"a":1}
>>> v.__shared
{'a': 1}
>>> w=Borg()
>>> w.__shared
{'a': 1}
>>> w.__shared["b"]=2
>>> v.__shared
{'a': 1, 'b': 2}
>>> v.__shared is w.__shared
True


>>> class Singleton(object):
	def __new__(self):
		if not self.__dict__.has_key("instance"):
			self.instance=object.__new__(self)
		return self.instance

	
>>> x=Singleton()
>>> x
<__main__.Singleton object at 0x40953d6c>
>>> y=Singleton()
>>> y
<__main__.Singleton object at 0x40953d6c>
>>> x is y
True
>>> x.test=1
>>> y.test
1

----8<----		

This clearly shows that an object of Borg class has a shared /class/ variable, 
Borg.__shared: I made an instance of Borg, v, and assigned to its __shared 
dict.  I then made a second instance of Borg, w.  Displaying its __shared 
dict reveals that it has the same contents as I assigned to v.__shared.  I 
assign a new key:value pair and then display the original object's .__shared 
dict: lo and behold, v.__shared has the same keys!  Final proof is provided 
by checking if 'v.__shared is w.__shared' - of course it is.

Then I define Singleton (based on your example).  The singleton class's 
__new__ method prevents any more than one instance ever being created.  (I 
didn't use the word /type/ as this is a builtin function).  I created two 
'instances' of Singleton, but as we can see, they're both the same object.

HTH

-andyj





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Sep  7 21:53:19 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 01:53:19 GMT
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1062958095.7471.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-9BB491.12173407092003@news.service.uci.edu> <bjg6up$iojq4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bjgnef$tfr$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 14:12:08 -0700, Dave Kuhlman <dkuhlman at rexx.com> wrote:

>David Eppstein wrote:
>
[...]

[...]

Thanks, both, for saving me a bunch of typing ;-)

It looks slick, but not really technically slick in a way
that would lead me to expectations about Python, just
eye-candy/we-spend-more-on-advertising-than-research
kind of slick (though for largely irrelevant photos, I
prefer pretty things and/or great photography ;-)

So, yeah, ad-shields-up was my reaction too, sorry. A prominent
notice like "this site prepared and served with free Python-scripted
software" might alter the impact and create some Python-linkage from
the appearance. (Of course it would have to be true, otherwise what's
being sold? Photoshop? ;-)

My frame of mind going to python.org is pleasant anticipation
like walking into an engineering library or technical reading room
I'm familiar with. By all means put notices there to direct
people to events and places of interest, but don't put on a facade
that makes my library feel like a commercial lobby ;-)

Let those be separate buildings. Too bad python.com is apparently, um, taken.

My 2 cents..
Maybe I'd get used to it, but that is my first reaction. Nice work, really,
but not for my old technical library building ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Wed Sep 17 11:54:48 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:54:48 -0400
Subject: Python 2.1 Compilation error - can't find krb5.h
In-Reply-To: <83bb8ac6.0309170707.6ab0e8ae@posting.google.com>
References: <83bb8ac6.0309170707.6ab0e8ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1063814087.10299.48.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 11:07, Gabby wrote:
> I am attempting to compile python 2.1 from the source on a RedHat 9.0
> system.  The problem is that a openssl header file (kssl.h) requires
> krb5.h which isn't in the usual place (/usr/include).  Instead krb5.h
> gets installed at usr/kerberos/include.  The openssl version is
> 0.9.7a-2.  When I build python, the ./configure works fine but the
> make' has problems building the _socket extension.  The beginning of
> the error message is pasted below.  How do I let python know where to
> find the krb5.h file?

This problem is fixed in CVS, but there hasn't been much interest in a
2.1.4 release since it's now two minor revisions out of date.

The solution is to add the following bit of code to setup.py just after
ssl_incs is defined.

        krb5_h = find_file('krb5.h', inc_dirs,
                           ['/usr/kerberos/include'])
        if krb5_h:
            ssl_incs += krb5_h

Jeremy






From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Sep 11 02:24:51 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 06:24:51 -0000
Subject: FIFO problems
References: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1063261489.219689@yasure>

Quoth Tobias Pfeiffer <BoteDesSchattens at web.de>:
...
| So at the beginning everything works fine. I can start the client prog 
| and they will talk and understand to each other. The same if I connect 
| with three or more clients simultaneously (?). If one of these clients 
| exits, no problem. But when the last process exists and closes the 
| FIFO-file which was opened by os.open(infifo, os.O_WRONLY), the server 
| begins to print an empty string everytime it goes through the loop, 
| means it won't wait for a complete line to appear before continuing. 
| Why?

It's at end of file.  That's what happens when the write end of
a pipe closes, and there's no data left:  subsequent reads return
end of file, which in Python is an empty string.

You may close it and open it again at this point.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From danielk at aracnet.com  Mon Sep 15 15:46:48 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:46:48 -0700
Subject: Calling Python from PHP
Message-ID: <un5cmvg9qdga3btgod9vrq51k12atqjj3u@4ax.com>

We need to use PHP with MQSeries, however PHP does not have a MQ interface
afaik. So my question is: Can Python be used as a proxy for PHP to call into
Python libraries, specifically PyMQI?

Daniel Klein



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 11 13:02:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:02:03 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <000d01c37870$181e6020$0c02a8c0@Arts> <mailman.1063297012.18608.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F60AA8B.47FE4B6C@engcorp.com>

Geoff Gerrietts wrote:
> 
> What about my freedom to kill people who inhibit my rise to world
> domination? At what point on the spectrum does "freedom" stop
> justifying endangering behavior?

Geoff, just for the record, I fully support your rise to world 
domination, with all my heart and soul...

-covering-my-bets-ly y'rs
 Peter



From dgwinn at family-net.net  Thu Sep 11 14:27:52 2003
From: dgwinn at family-net.net (dgwinn at family-net.net)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:27:52 -0500
Subject: Americans love their (our) guns.
In-Reply-To: <20030911173130.19015.50343.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030911173130.19015.50343.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1063304872.3f60bea881f9f@webmail.hansoninfosys.com>

I know absolutely nothing about Python; I joined this list to read, not to post,
in the hope that I might learn faster if I read conversations between experts.

However, at the risk of seeming immodest, I do know quite a bit about guns and
gun control.  I hope I won't be considered too forward if I comment on the
current interesting debate over guns.

Quoting a couple of list members:

>>  I think that /your freedom/ ends where /my freedom/ begins.

On that score, you and I agree absolutely.  Individual freedom can only exist
when individuals either are forced or agree not to infringe upon the rights of
other individuals.  

>>  Until you can guarantee that your weapon will not be used against me by your
family members or the conqueror thereof, your freedoms to shoot what
you want as a hobbyist and to exercise catastrophically lethal force
in home defense are not compelling arguments.

Oops.  Here you've lost me.  I am to be held responsible for what a thief,
descendant, or "conqueror" does with my property after he takes it, preusumably
by force?  Surely not.  If my car is stolen and the thief leads the police on a
car chase, shall I be charged with criminal flight?  What if he kills someone?
Should I be prevented from owning an automobile at all, or perhaps only
dangerous vehicles like large trucks, to prevent such a tragedy?  

>>  Want to defend yourself? Learn a martial art.

False dichotomy.  It's not an either/or (elsif, I guess?) proposition.  I study
Tae Kwon Do and boxing, and it has taught me the value of a firearm.  Have you
ever studied the Gracie family's secret Gracie Jujitsu solution to an opponent
with a knife or broken bottle?
Rorion Gracie says the super-strategy can be summed up in one word:  "RUN."
A gun is not a magic protective talisman, but it's a very effective tool.  My
teacher is a 4th-degree black belt who has studied TKD for almost 30 years and
has owned his own school for 4.  He's also an avid shooter.  Of course, he's in
a wheelchair.
Please don't tell me to run away.  Even if every situation offered the
opportunity to run (and they don't) my wife and two young sons would have to be
at least as fast as I am.  I'm sure not going to be running off and leaving them.
 
>>  Worried about the guns in the Bad Guys' hands? Me too. You can bet that when
you can't walk into a gun show, pay cash, and anonymously carry out lethal
firearms, you're going to see a lot fewer firearms in the hands of thieves.

Actually, I live in Illinois, home of Chicago and Lincoln.  What you describe
has been a felony here for over 20 years.  Illinois gun owners must submit to
background checks, wait a few weeks, then purchase a license called the FOID.
You must present the FOID to buy or sell guns or ammunition from anyone, even
your own grandfather, and both parties have to keep records of the FOIDs
involved for seven years.  We also have "secure storage" laws, and we don't
allow concealed carry by anyone for any reason.  Yet our murder rate is much
higher than any of our neighboring states like Indiana or Kentucky, each of
which make it a lot easier to own guns "off paper," carry a handgun, or even own
a machine gun (not an "assault weapon," a real, live machine gun.)

>>What about my freedom to kill people who inhibit my rise to world
>>domination? At what point on the spectrum does "freedom" stop
>>justifying endangering behavior?

When you are actually and willfully causing harm, you've exceeded your rights. 
Gun ownership simply does not meet that standard.





From Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com  Thu Sep  4 09:11:18 2003
From: Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com (Harri Pesonen)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 06:11:18 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python in multi-threaded app
References: <17fbc98a.0309040028.6776d426@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <17fbc98a.0309040511.462db4aa@posting.google.com>

I solved it. Downloaded the PyWM source code (http://pywx.idyll.org/)
and checked how it does it. Even if it is linux code, my Win32
application started working (or in fact stopping) correctly.

The correct startup sequence is:

	Py_Initialize();
	PyEval_InitThreads();
	mainState = PyThreadState_Swap(NULL);
	PyEval_ReleaseLock();

And the correct cleanup sequence is:

	PyEval_AcquireLock();
	PyThreadState_Swap(mainState);
	PyEval_ReleaseLock();
	Py_Finalize();

I don't understand why

	mainState = PyThreadState_Swap(NULL);
and
	PyThreadState_Swap(mainState);
	PyEval_ReleaseLock();

are needed, so if someone can explain? :-)

Harri

Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com (Harri Pesonen) wrote in message news:<17fbc98a.0309040028.6776d426 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello. Thanks to the message below
> (http://groups.google.fi/groups?selm=dkuhlmanF1KAr0.5J9%40netcom.com),
> I was able to do the same, almost. I have currently only one problem.
> When I call Py_Finalize() when the dll terminates, it crashes. I have
> Python 2.3. Everything else works, I have run many different scripts
> in threads. I wonder if someone has noticed anything similar, and
> perhaps found a solution.
>  
> Also I don't understand PyThreadState_Swap(interp) call below, but it
> does not work properly without it, the thread termination hangs
> without it. The documentation says that Py_NewInterpreter() already
> makes the new state current.
>  
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> Harri
> 
> --- Original message below ----
>  
> Thanks for comments from Guido. I have a very preliminary version 
> working with Python embedded in a multi-threaded C++ application.
> 
> I'd like to summarize what I'm doing so that others will have an
> example to follow or so that someone can correct me if I'm still
> doing something wrong.
> 
> My application creates multiple threads, one for each end-user
> session. I create a separate Python sub-interpreter for each thread
> (session), then evaluate scripts in that session with the
> sub-interpreter for that session.  I do this so that within a
> session, scripts are evaluated under a context/environment local to
> that session and so that the scripts in a session do not share
> (borrow or steal) global values, imported functions, etc from other
> sessions. Thus, my users (who are developing Python scripts) can
> write scripts from the viewpoint that the scripts for each session
> will run in their own little world under their own separate
> environment. I view this as a very important benefit that embedded
> Python gives me.
> 
> Here is a summary of my latest code:
> 
>   // At the very beginning of the application.
>   Py_Initialize();
>   PyEval_InitThreads();
>   PyEval_ReleaseLock();
>     o
>     o
>     o
>   // Here we are in the constructor for a session.
>   PyEval_AcquireLock();
>   interp = Py_NewInterpreter();
>   // Note that this application has multiple threads.
>   // It maintains a separate interp (sub-interpreter) for each thread.
>   PyThreadState_Swap(interp);
>   // Call some Python C/API functions here
>   PyEval_ReleaseThread(interp);
>     o
>     o
>     o
>   // Get sub-interpreter for current thread.
>   interp = ...
>   PyEval_AcquireThread(interp);
>   // Call more Python C/API functions here, e.g. PyRun_SimpleString
>   PyEval_ReleaseThread(interp);
>     o
>     o
>     o
>   // Get sub-interpreter for current thread.
>   interp = ...
>   PyEval_AcquireThread(interp);
>   // Call more Python C/API functions here
>   PyEval_ReleaseThread(interp);
>     o
>     o
>     o
>   // Here we are in the destructor for a session.
>   // Get sub-interpreter for current thread.
>   interp = ...
>   PyEval_AcquireThread(interp);
>   Py_EndInterpreter(interp);
>   PyEval_ReleaseLock();
>     o
>     o
>     o
>   // At the very end of the application.
>   PyEval_AcquireLock();
>   Py_Finalize();
> 
> 
> Thanks again for help.  And I hope that this can serve as a simple
> model for others trying to embed Python in a multi-threaded
> application.
> 
>   -- Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Guido van Rossum <guido at CNRI.Reston.VA.US> wrote:
> 
> > Yes, but this is still dangerous.  You should really use the APIs that 
> > manage the lock *and* the thread state: use
> > PyEval_AcquireThread() and PyEval_ReleaseThread().  (The argument to
> > the latter should be the current thread state, gotten from
> > PyThreadState_Get().) 
> > In case you're inclined to continue this while I'm unavailable, read
> > the source -- e.g. the routines I mentioned here are in
> > Python/ceval.c. 
> > --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From felix_mcallister at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 25 11:36:14 2003
From: felix_mcallister at hotmail.com (Felix McAllister)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:36:14 +0100
Subject: send email
References: <mailman.1064455474.2847.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SXDcb.33302$pK2.59682@news.indigo.ie>

Your other option, assuming you don't mind Windows specific code, is to use the CDONTS COM library:

import win32com.client
def SendEmail(emailAddresses, subject, body, files):
    
    iConf = win32com.client.Dispatch("CDO.Configuration")
    Flds = iConf.Fields
    Flds("http://schemas.microsoft.com/cdo/configuration/smtpserver").Value = "someserver"
    Flds("http://schemas.microsoft.com/cdo/configuration/smtpserverport").Value = 25
    Flds("http://schemas.microsoft.com/cdo/configuration/sendusing").Value = 2     # cdoSendUsingPort
    # Authentication and stuff
    Flds('http://schemas.microsoft.com/cdo/configuration/smtpauthenticate').Value = 0 # No authentication
    # The following fields are only used if the previous authentication value is set to 1 or 2
#   Flds('http://schemas.microsoft.com/cdo/configuration/smtpaccountname').Value = "user"
#   Flds('http://schemas.microsoft.com/cdo/configuration/sendusername').Value = "domain\\user"
#   Flds('http://schemas.microsoft.com/cdo/configuration/sendpassword').Value = "password"
    Flds.Update()
    iMsg = win32com.client.Dispatch("CDO.Message")
    iMsg.Configuration = iConf
    iMsg.To = ";".join(emailAddresses)
    iMsg.From = "Test<test at test.com>"
    iMsg.Subject = subject
    iMsg.TextBody = body
    # The following assumes the files to be in the current directory
    for file in files:
        iMsg.AddAttachment("file:///" + os.getcwd() + "/" + file)
    iMsg.Send()

Felix.


> Hello:
>  
> Could you tell me How I can send an email using 
> WIN2000? What do I need?
>  
> Thanks



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 14:24:12 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:24:12 +0100
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <crtgnvgmvep2e8cr1rd6jdlpolmpcvg6sl@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:31:05 -0500, "Edward K. Ream"
<edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:

>Any ideas for a clean solution?  Thanks.

I am not sure that I understand what you are saying, but I'll make a
quick suggestion...

Perhaps 'app' can be a global variable within 'leoGlobals', but
assigned the value 'None' when the module is imported. Your
initialisation code can then reassign the variable at the appropriate
time.

If you refer to 'app.whatever' while 'app' is still 'None' you should
get an exception.

That's not what most people mean by 'singleton' of course, but if you
can be sure of your initialisation sequence it can probably do the
job.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep  6 02:55:33 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 06:55:33 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com> <g_Y5b.25276$R32.778757@news2.tin.it> <74e674c13888643bf15a72e800c9d8ed@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <Fxf6b.20653$hE5.755579@news1.tin.it>

Chris wrote:

> LOL
> 
> thanks for the heads up on Boost

You're welcome.


> I have just downloaded Swig and am beginning to explore that, So boost
> also sounds like a good idea.

Personally, I prefer SWIG when what I have to interface to is basically
C code.  In that case, SWIG does have the advantage of being able to
interface a C library to _several_ HLLs and VHLLs.  But for C++ I never
really got the hang of it, while Boost and pyste are a snap to use (for
Python, which coversa basically all I need).


> I think with my penchant for small things I may be getting carried away.

"Small binary size" is a perfectly respectable target when one's
target requires it (mobile phones, small palmtops, etc).  Otherwise,
personally, I consider it way less important than productivity,
maintainability, correctness, and even speed.  But if your priorities
are otherwise, you might consider LUA -- it probably won't do all you
want, but it may come near and it WILL be far smaller anyway.

Some scripting languages are designed for power, others focus on
being small.  Perl and Python definitely consider power, ease of
use (by their very different criteria), and so on, far more crucial
than saving some bytes of disk.  When that disk saving is crucial,
you may choose scripting languages designed to be small, even if
that sacrifices a lot of power -- after all, many scripting tasks
don't really require all that power.


> I guess suck it and see is my best option, I have explored the source
> code for perl 5.8 and got considerably lost :(

Ah, yes, I remember that feeling from back when I wrested with it
(Python's C source code I find very readable, and anyway you do not
need to look at it to use Boost or pyste).


> I will have to try python and see if I come out any wiser

Another option you may want to consider is Ruby.  I don't know
how easy it is to interface it specifically to C++, and in
particular to get the cross-language subclassing and overriding
effect you want (which Boost provides so smoothly) -- but it's
basically the same power as Perl or Python, a distinctive style
of its own that along some axes lies in-between the two P's,
and a small but enthusiastic community.  Size-wise, though, I
don't think it will significantly help you.


Alex





From Huzzah! at Huzzah.com  Sat Sep 27 22:32:06 2003
From: Huzzah! at Huzzah.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:32:06 GMT
Subject: Tutor
References: <6kqdb.146$Vb3.97520@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <GKrdb.39139$Ci5.997737@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

News wrote in article <6kqdb.146$Vb3.97520 at news1.news.adelphia.net>:

> been teaching myself so far. I was wondering if anyone out there would be
> able to help me along with this. Maybe help explain some things and give
> me ideas for practice programs that go along with what I'm learning. And
> if you can't help directly, maybe someone out there can point me towards
> somewhere that I can get help. ok, I've talked enough. Thank you all in
> advance.

Another good reference would be the mailing list by the same name as your
subject line.  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

BTW, the tutor list has been strangely silent for a few days.  Anyone know
what has happened?

-- 
Todd Stephens
ICQ# 3150790
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 17 11:57:37 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:57:37 +0200
Subject: Fsrit Propttoye: SCLABMRE
References: <mailman.1063804763.5990.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bka0ar$4lq$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Frank, what we are *really* waiting for, is the patch that teaches the snake
to eat the following without indigestion :-)

iomrpt re
ipmort sys
from rndaom irompt sflhfue

ETIPSRYTNMG = ''


def sowrablrcemd(wrod):
    if len(wrod) <= 2:
        rretun wrod
    middle = list(word[1:-1])
    sufhfle(mdilde)
    rtruen word[0] + EISYNTTRMPG.join(mildde) + word[-1]


def mian():
    text = sys.sdtin.read()
    wrdos = re.split(r'(\W+)', txet)
    wilhe wdors:
        sys.sdotut.wirte(smblarcewrod(wodrs.pop(0)))
        if wodrs:
            sys.sudott.wirte(wdros.pop(0))


if _nae__m_ == '_mn__ia_':
    mian()

Scrambledly yours,
Peter



From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Tue Sep 23 23:10:37 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:10:37 GMT
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
Message-ID: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

In a Python script running under CGI, can I programatically redirect the
program to another page. Assume that I have a static HTML page that I want
displayed (e.g. index.htm). Other than 'print ...' is there any way to
redirect to this URL (for example, like Response.Redirect() in ASP)?

Many thanks.





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 18 13:59:48 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:59:48 -0400
Subject: Join equivalent for tuples of non-strings?
References: <1a884f4a.0309181000.749eb8a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F69F294.E9AF9755@engcorp.com>

"Peter L. Buschman" wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to think in Python, but am stumped here...
> 
> What is the equivalent for the following if you are dealing with a tuple
> of non-strings?
> 
> >>> import string
> >>> foo = ( '1', '2', '3' )
> >>> string.join( foo, '.' )
> '1.2.3'
> 
> With a tuple of integers, this fails with a traceback as below:

Try this instead, using old and new style Python:

string.join(map(str, foo), '.')

or 

'.'.join([str(x) for x in foo])

-Peter



From nospam at nospam.net  Mon Sep 22 09:46:40 2003
From: nospam at nospam.net (c42)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:46:40 GMT
Subject: Display message while running...
Message-ID: <MPG.19d8c794235fb304989687@news2.atlantic.net>

I'm writing a script that needs a message not to touch the screen while 
it runs. (Windows NT/2K/XP) 

I tried win32api.messagebox, but this stops the program until someone 
clicks on OK. (A response (ie. "OK") is not required.)

Any suggestions?

Thanks!



From mzupan at meso.com  Wed Sep 10 14:42:24 2003
From: mzupan at meso.com (Mike Zupan)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 11:42:24 -0700
Subject: sort by file/directory
Message-ID: <9d302332.0309101042.2c0d12c3@posting.google.com>

I have a list that includes files and directories

ie: list = ['file', 'file2', 'dir1','file3','dir2' ]

I want to sort it so it looks like this

['dir1', 'dir2', 'file1','file2','file3' ]


I'm just wondering if there is an easy way to do this

Thanks
Mike



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep 15 16:23:58 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:23:58 -0400
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
References: <mailman.1063644809.12116.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e/hZ/kKkXMbF092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Rob Hunter <rhunter007 at yahoo.com> wrote previously:
|The FOR statement is mutating the variable i.
|In general, in most cases, I find it *unacceptable* to use mutation.

Nope, Nope, No!

In Python, integers are IMMUTABLE.  Nothing anywhere will ever change
their value.

What the 'for' statement does is BIND a value to a name.  Same thing an
assignment does, and so on.

Some values are mutable, like lists and dictionaries.  But it seems like
most of what Hunter writes is just a misunderstanding of the difference
between mutation and binding.

If you like, you can create a 'let'-like prohibition on rebinding.  See:

    http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_16.html

The version on dW has the code samples messed up now.  But you do not
usually want to do this.  It's just superfluous and contrived, rather
than useful, mostly.

Yours, Lulu...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 19:05:23 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:05:23 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <clr6nvc1segmi9m4bkjpv0rbbvn9soijkn@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:58:45 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger"
<vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

>Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.

One more thought.

Having an iter_backwards method on xrange seems wrong. This suggests
multiple functions/methods...

  To generate backward ranges
    range_backwards function
    xrange_backwards funtion

    for i in range_backwards (10) :
      ...

  To iterate an object backwards
    either method for appropriate objects, or
    iter_backward() function and __iter_backward__ magic method
    (I don't mind abbreviating the 'iter', but I think the 'backward'
    needs to be kept very obvious and not reduced to an easily missed
    'r' prefix).

    for i in iter_backwards (seq) :
      ...

  To enumate backwards etc
    Add an enumerate_backward function which requires the input to
    support __len__.

    for i in enumerate_backwards (seq) :
      ...

  For backward slicing
    Add a function which translates the slice to a backward equivalent
    before applying it...

    for i in slice_backwards (seq, start, stop, step) :
      ...


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep  1 11:27:14 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:27:14 -0400
Subject: artificial intelligence
References: <mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <28idnUSf8LnO-M6iXTWJiA@comcast.com>

"Arthur" <ajsiegel at optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list at python.org...
> OTOH, the concept of "coincidence" must necessarily be ruled out in
AI, I
> would think.

Statisticians generally assume the null hypothesis of 'coincidence'
until evidence shows elsewise.  However, applied statisticians must
take into account the benefit/cost of being right/wrong when there
is/isn't an association.  I suspect Amazon concluded that the
rate*cost (customer unhappiness) of reporting false associations is
low compared to the benefit (stimulated sales) of true associations
and even perhaps some that were false.  Are you going to boycott
Amazon because they gave you a laugh?  I am sure that Amazon is
counting on most people not being really offended.  On the otherhand,
reporting and stimulating pursuit of non-existent associations if more
costly in science.

Terry J. Reedy







From stani_ at hotmail.com  Sat Sep  6 01:59:41 2003
From: stani_ at hotmail.com (SM)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 22:59:41 -0700
Subject: advice choosing IDE
References: <bhqe4p$23loq$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de> <bhr857$2bpn5$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <99230dbb.0309052159.7b9b9de8@posting.google.com>

Lupe <lupe at netvisao.pt> wrote in message news:<bhr857$2bpn5$1 at ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Thanks everyone!
> 
> I've got some material...  :)
> 
> It's not easy to arrive at a different world (Linux) where everything can be
> customizeable.  For a begginner, it's easier to have just 'one solution' in
> first place and then to evolve, but I'll get there!
> 
> 
> 
> Lupe

If you can't get enough...
http://projects.blender.org/projects/spe/
or
http://www.pycs.net/users/0000167/



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 15:47:26 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:47:26 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com> <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com> <ebt0nvckrjv0or52pdmi8ghe147006ioi9@4ax.com> <kl31nvk4j0lhsbmeg9pra3c4mh78rrkivp@4ax.com> <6bm1nvc7pfkqppndn0lcks0edqdqf02tra@4ax.com> <9ji3nv8l1l57t1ichle04hkd41s31i9fmf@4ax.com> <tek3nv87eq8etb7f3m7k6j63u4m7trstpj@4ax.com> <86ad8t7zx3.fsf@pc-nrp.dev.mon.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0tg6nvc05cfnr8elqsh4uslm10flb8151d@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:36:40 +0000, Neil Padgen
<neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:

>>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:
>
>    Stephen> So a 'break if ... :' cannot accidentally metamorphose
>    Stephen> into a 'break; if ... :'.
>
>It can if you press return at the wrong place:
>
>    while True:
>        blah ; blah ; blah
>    break
>    if condition:
>        blah ; blah ; blah
>
>This would be perfectly legal if the new-style while loop were in
>another loop.

I don't think this is a serious problem. It's hard to miss the fact
that the 'break' and the 'if' are on different lines.

You might just as well claim that...

  print "Hello World"

...is bad syntax because...

  print
  "Hello World"

...is legal but (particularly when not run from the command line)
different.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From peterm at resmed.com.au  Thu Sep 11 17:16:45 2003
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:16:45 +1000
Subject: Cool & Useful EmPy project, prior art?
References: <du71xunfweg.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <1D58b.2052$vQ1.113255@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Ville,

If I understand what you want to do there is already something that does
this job for Emacs. Presumably to get it into some other target document
would require some transfer mechanism though........

Anyway, have a look at http://www.zipworld.com.au/~peterm. ELSE has a set of
language templates for Python.

If you really prefer a question/answer session (such as you describe) there
are other code template systems available for Emacs (that also come as part
of the Emacs distribution). They are template.el and skeleton.el. There are
no existing (to my knowledge) template definitions for Python with these
Emacs modes but I am sure they wouldn't be too hard to produce if you prefer
this form of interface.

Goodluck,
Peter


"Ville Vainio" <ville.spammehardvainio at spamtut.fi> wrote in message
news:du71xunfweg.fsf at mozart.cc.tut.fi...
>
> I am thinking of implementing a nice little source code generation
> program with empy. I'm planning on having one directory with arbitrary
> number of templates. Templates can contain a significator as follows:
>
> @%promptuser ('classname',"the name of the class",'string'),('i',"some
number",'int')
>
> After choosing a template from the list, the user will be prompted for
> all variables specified in promptuser. Then, the template is expanded
> and copied to clipboard for manual pasting into the target document
> ('gclip' of win32 unxutils should work, how can I do it in python BTW?)
>
> What I'm planning seems to be a pretty "obvious", universally
> applicable application of empy (perhaps I should file for a patent if
> the EU chooses to shoot itself in the foot? ;-), and am wondering
> whether someone has already done such a beast? Perhaps with a GUI,
> even... I wouldn't mind doing it myself, it seems like a fun project,
> but time == money and something tried & true might already exist out
> there...
>
> --
> Ville Vainio   http://www.students.tut.fi/~vainio24





From claird at lairds.com  Thu Sep  4 17:36:08 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:36:08 -0000
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
References: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com> <vle0j01npmca27@corp.supernews.com> <4378fa6f.0309041125.49b13fc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlfc28r72b1e1c@corp.supernews.com>

In article <4378fa6f.0309041125.49b13fc7 at posting.google.com>,
Marc <mnations at airmail.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>2) Also, in reading I found an old module called Tkdnd (drag and
>drop). It was an experimental module that was supposed to be updated
>but never was. Now I can't find any more information on it. Does this
>module still exist or work?
			.
			.
			.
'Don't know; 'think it hasn't been maintained in a couple of years.

<URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/tkdnd > might interest you.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From oussoren at cistron.nl  Fri Sep 26 08:44:30 2003
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:44:30 +0200
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
In-Reply-To: <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <2C063E1E-F01F-11D7-A03A-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>

On 26 sep 2003, at 5:50, Jules Dubois wrote:
>
> The Windows kernels are the same.  The internals of the operating  
> system
> accept either.
>
That's not entirely true, in WinNT derivatives the backslash is the  
real seperator at the kernel level, the Win32 perform some conversion  
that allows forward slashes and recognizes special files like CON, PRN,  
et.al..

To make live even more interesting, only unicode paths with backslashes  
as seperators can address all files (at least when I last looked at it  
about 2 years ago). When using unicodepaths you can use '\\?\' as a  
prefix on paths to turn off the conversion I mention above (see  
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/ 
fileio/base/naming_a_file.asp). The fun you can have on windows, I've  
managed to create files that cannot be removed :-)

Ronald





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep  8 22:49:35 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:49:35 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410@reader1.news.jippii.net> <vlpeq9jko1l6b0@news.supernews.com> <7T47b.4753$ZB4.113@reader1.news.jippii.net> <vlpr14kfehrn46@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <rKadnXfgmJJdosCiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:vlpr14kfehrn46 at news.supernews.com...
> It's not a simple thing to do, and the fact that ML
> family languages manage to do it without having
> to have explicit type declarations (well, most of the
> time anyway) is a major achievement, IMO.

As I remember, part of the cost (for ML at least) is having separate
operators for ints and floats.  Bye bye generic functions.  I don't
remember if there was any escape from the type straightjacket (like
#define max(a,b) ... in C).  And one has to adjust to and feel
comfortable enough with the view that multiparam functions are a
composition of single param functions.  But I agree that the type
inferencing is an interesting achievement.

Terry J. Reedy





From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Sep 10 17:55:27 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 23:55:27 +0200
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python
References: <mailman.1063224795.24414.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93F2F36331225cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

vald <vald at valis.amber.eu.org> wrote in 
news:mailman.1063224795.24414.python-list at python.org:

> 
> I wonder if there is any module for rendering True
> Type Fonts in Python ? I need to create a GIF files
> with nice antialiased text and I'm unable to find
> any module with such functionality.

lok at pygame and pil

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Sep 23 13:09:20 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:09:20 GMT
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
References: <mailman.1064323111.9915.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <47%bb.7073$7W4.2875@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

[Jeremy Dillworth]

> Actually, Perl does have a "super" construct.

Python's super() is more sophisticated and searches the __mro__.
This makes it possible to write "cooperative" superclasses.

Guido provides a clear explanation at:
      http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#cooperation


Raymond Hettinger





From faizan at jaredweb.com  Sun Sep 14 12:33:47 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 14 Sep 2003 09:33:47 -0700
Subject: Sending SMS...
References: <7b454334.0309131130.59cf64fa@posting.google.com> <bjvs8g$nso$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <16e631aa.0309132041.319f0982@posting.google.com> <bk12hf$s98$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0309140833.2721bae0@posting.google.com>

Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> wrote in message news:<bk12hf$s98$1 at nemesis.news.tpi.pl>...
> Fazer <faizanNOSPAM at jaredweb.com> pisze:
>   
> >> > Can anyone point me to a way on how to send a SMS message using Python?
> >> 
> >> Use web gateway, like 1rstWap.com. I think it's simplest method.
> > 
> > Thanks, but how would I implement that?  Any ideas?
> 
> Just send appropriately crafted HTTP request to the gateway's webserver
> using httplib. You should analyze page source to get some basic things
> like http field names and a name of script, where you should send your
> data (form action="script_name").
> 
> Also, be aware, that 1rstWap.com (and many other free SMS web gateways)
> require prior user registration, that can not be handled by program
> (they show user some picture with text that need to be entered
> correctly).


Thanks for your reply.  I thought I would have to use sockets but I
guess http would be easier.



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Sat Sep  6 16:24:14 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:24:14 -0400
Subject: ANN: Munkware 0.2
Message-ID: <20030906162414.A3897@cerberus.liberty>

Munkware, a transactional and persistent queueing mechanism, is proud to announce version 0.2 for public consumption.  Bug fixes/enhancements include:
 
- Bug-fix - re-instantiation of a full queue was throwing an exception.  This is fixed now.
- Re-added support for the un_*() syntax in addition to *_rollback()
- Added support for passing in a callback class.  Usefulness of such a feature includes easy queue prioritization, queue filtering, etc.  There are a couple of example scripts in the example directory of the download.

The Sourceforge Project page is located at http://sourceforge.net/projects/munkware/ and the project home page is located at http://munkware.sourceforge.net/
 
Future plans for Munkware include:
- Better documentation with diagrams of state traversal - currently in progress.
- Auto-commit functionality - planned for version 0.3
- Transactional and persistent queueing server with  a Web Services interface

If you have any suggestions, please feel free to email them to me.


Jeremy Jones




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 16 15:13:40 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:13:40 -0400
Subject: why pass statement?
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F6760E4.631C7B2E@engcorp.com>

M-a-S wrote:
> 
> Why is there the pass statement? I think, the expression statement would be enough:
> 
> class C:
>     None
> 
> while True:
>     None

For readability.  Pass makes more sense.  You seem to think minimalism
is inherently good... (?)

-Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 15 12:21:49 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:21:49 +0200
Subject: stripping a string
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM> <mailman.1063499902.1786.python-list@python.org> <faf44c99.0309150745.6723fb66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk4ovt$hn6$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Tim Williams wrote:

> Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
> news:<mailman.1063499902.1786.python-list at python.org>...
>> If you want to remove all digits from the string, then use
>> str.translate, not regular expressions:
>>     import string
>>     identity_transformation = string.maketrans('', '')
>> 
>>     def remove_digits(s):
>> return s.translate(identity_transformation, string.digits)
>> 
>> >>> s = 'ANL LN32'
>> >>> remove_digits(s)
>> 'ANL LN'
>> 
>> If you want to remove digits from the end of the string, then use
>> str.strip(), not a regular expression:
>> >>> s.rstrip(string.digits)
>> 'ANL LN'
>> 
>> Jeff
> 
> I don't understand. What's wrong with
> 
>>>> import re
>>>> s = 'ANL LN32'
>>>> s=re.sub('[0-9]', '', s)
>>>> print s
> ANL LN

Nothing is *wrong*, but

>>> import re
>>> s = 'AN21 LN32'
>>> print re.sub('[0-9]', '', s)
AN LN

whereas

>>> import string
>>> print s.rstrip(string.digits)
AN21 LN

is *different*.

translate() gives the same result as re.sub(), but should be much faster
(haven't timed it though).

Peter




From news_nospam at fuglum.net  Sun Sep 21 09:19:48 2003
From: news_nospam at fuglum.net (Erlend Fuglum)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:19:48 +0200
Subject: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?)
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <989rmvko22a26qb8upq5h18oaladnmkdf3@4ax.com>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:10:16 +0200, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>
wrote:

>Erlend Fuglum wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I'm having some trouble sorting lists. I suspect this might have
>> something to do with locale settings and/or character
>> encoding/unicode.
>> (...)
>
>Try setting the appropriate locale first:
>
>import locale
>locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ("no", None))
>
>Then for a case-insensitive sort:
>
>wordlist.sort(locale.strcoll)
>
>should do (disclaimer: all untested).

Grrrrrreat, that did it! Thank you very much!

Erlend



From Jon_Aquino at shaw.ca  Sat Sep  6 12:30:41 2003
From: Jon_Aquino at shaw.ca (Jonathan Aquino)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 09:30:41 -0700
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com>

Two reasons I cringe when I see self as the first parameter of method
declarations (i.e. "def methodname(self, ...)" (I don't mind self in
the method body)):

1) I abhor redundancy. My first impression on seeing self as the first
parameter of all method declarations is that it seems redundant -- it
probably isn't technically, but it looks redundant: (self, (self,
(self, (self, ...

2) The number of parameters in the method call is one less than the
number of parameters in the method declaration. I'm annoyed when I see
this because I want the rules of the language to be obvious (in this
case, a one-to-one mapping). I would be embarassed to have to explain
this to a beginning programmer.

(I do like how Python indenting indicates blocks, however)



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Sep 23 09:30:03 2003
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:30:03 +0100
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <3F6F86A2.DC29472A@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix>
Message-ID: <bkphss$o02@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Riccardo Attilio Galli" <riquito at riquito.matrix> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668 at riquito.matrix...
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:32:50 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:

> I don't want to ask to the user every time the account password, but also
> I don't want to store it as plain text.

> Do you know what is the usual practice in these cases?

The usual practice is to store the password in some trivially breakable encryption
scheme, preserving some illusion of security.





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 06:39:09 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:39:09 GMT
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com> <0ZAcb.118994$hE5.4097227@news1.tin.it> <bkunn8$pgs$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <hHUcb.170642$R32.5470450@news2.tin.it>

Achim Domma wrote:

> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
> news:0ZAcb.118994$hE5.4097227 at news1.tin.it...
>> You have to *EN*-code Unicode into string, with the same way the string
>> had been *DE*-coded to Unicode originally, in order to be sure to get
>> the same string back; specifically, you have to use the same *codec*
> [...]
> 
> Thanks Alex,
> 
> I understand that, but looking at the adodbapi code I could not find any
> call to encode/decode. The conversion seems to happen somewhere in
> win32com. Don't know if you will ever get your data back, once it's
> converted to Variant. ;-)

So, take control of your destiny: since you know you're using tools
that can only deal with Unicode (and thus will inevitably convert --
in ways that perhaps you don't know -- if you pass them bytestrings),
preempt their "unknown and unwanted" conversion by doing a Unicode
conversion yourself in ways you DO know and control.  UTF-16 sticks
2 bytes into each Unicode character -- you do need to be working with
strings of EVEN length, though.  Or else you can use, e.g., ISO-8859-1,
and resign yourself to spending one Unicode character per byte in
your "real" byte-string.

Or else, of course, you can use a "BLOB" field instead of a text
one; I think the keyword for that in the Jet engine's DDL SQL is
BINARY.  If you DO need to use Access to manipulate your db, though
(and I can see deucedly few other reasons to use a Jet engine...),
I think that might not work -- at least back when I was having to
work on MS platform, I seem to recall that Access could not truly
support BLOB fields (except perhaps with embedded SQL, but that was
not considered acceptable in most Access-addicted shops, since the
real reason to use Access was NOT having to understand SQL...;-).


Alex




From grante at visi.com  Tue Sep 16 14:10:04 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 18:10:04 GMT
Subject: App development for Sharp Zaurus PDA using QTopia?
Message-ID: <3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

I see there's a Python binary package available for the Sharp
Zaurus PDA.  Has anybody deleloped an app for that platform?
I'm wondering if the resource requirement of Python are a
problem on that platform.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Am I accompanied by
                                  at               a PARENT or GUARDIAN?
                               visi.com            



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 12 07:40:33 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:40:33 +0200
Subject: formatting number in the CSV module
References: <8dad5312.0309120319.13bc9062@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjsbc2$6f2$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Sebastien de Menten wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I need to output numbers to a csv file and use the new csv module in
> python2.3:
> 
> "
> import csv
> data = [[ 0.321524523,0.5243523],[0.54635643,0.62776]]
> w = csv.writer(file("out.csv","w"))
> w.writerows(data)
> "
> 
> However, I would like to format the number so that only the first 2
> decimals are stored in the csv file.
> 
> Is it possible to specify a formatting command like "%.2f" to the csv
> writer ?
> 

I suggest wrapping your data into a generator:

import csv
import sys
data = [
    [ 0.321524523,0.5243523],
    [0.54635643,0.62776]
]

def formatdata(data):
    for row in data:
        yield ["%0.2f" % v for v in row]

w = csv.writer(sys.stdout)
w.writerows(formatdata(data))

Peter



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Sep  8 22:18:51 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:18:51 -0700
Subject: ANN: EmPy 3.1 -- A powerful templating system for Python
Message-ID: <3F5D388B.C9D9A31F@alcyone.com>

Summary

    A powerful and robust templating system for Python.


Overview

    EmPy is a system for embedding Python expressions and statements
    in template text; it takes an EmPy source file, processes it, and
    produces output.  This is accomplished via expansions, which are
    special signals to the EmPy system and are set off by a special
    prefix (by default the at sign, '@').  EmPy can expand arbitrary
    Python expressions and statements in this way, as well as a
    variety of special forms.  Textual data not explicitly delimited
    in this way is sent unaffected to the output, allowing Python to
    be used in effect as a markup language.  Also supported are
    callbacks via hooks, recording and playback via diversions, and
    dynamic, chainable filters.  The system is highly configurable via
    command line options and embedded commands.

    Expressions are embedded in text with the '@(...)' notation;
    variations include conditional expressions with '@(...?...!...)'
    and the ability to handle thrown exceptions with '@(...$...)'.  As
    a shortcut, simple variables and expressions can be abbreviated as
    '@variable', '@object.attribute', '@function(arguments)',
    '@sequence[index]', and combinations.  Full-fledged statements
    are embedded with '@{...}'.  Control flow in terms of conditional
    or repeated expansion is available with '@[...]'.  A '@' followed
    by a whitespace character (including a newline) expands to
    nothing, allowing string concatenations and line continuations.
    Comments are indicated with '@#' and consume the rest of the line,
    up to and including the trailing newline.  '@%' indicate
    "significators," which are special forms of variable assignment
    intended to specify per-file identification information in a
    format which is easy to parse externally.  Context name and line
    number changes can be done with '@?' and '@!' respectively.
    Escape sequences analogous to those in C can be specified with
    '@\...', and finally a '@@' sequence expands to a single literal
    at sign.


Getting the software

    The current version of empy is 3.1.

    The latest version of the software is available in a tarball here:
    http://www.alcyone.com/software/empy/empy-latest.tar.gz.

    The official URL for this Web site is
    http://www.alcyone.com/software/empy/.


Requirements

    EmPy should work with any version of Python from 1.5.2 onward.  It
    has been tested with all major versions of CPython from 1.5 up,
    and Jython from 2.0 up (using Java runtimes 1.3 and 1.4).  The
    included test script is intended to run on Unix-like systems with
    a Bourne shell.


License

    This code is released under the GPL.

...

Release history [since 3.0.4]

    - 3.1; 2003 Aug 8.  Unicode support (Python 2.0 and above); added
      Document and Processor helper classes for processing
      significators; added --no-prefix option for suppressing all
      markups.


-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ War is a continuation of policy by other means.
\__/  Karl von Clausewitz



From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 09:34:22 2003
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 06:34:22 -0700
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
References: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0309050534.7fd4f284@posting.google.com>

I learned wxPython by following this tutorial by Mark Hammond (now
just slightly outdated, but still usefull):
http://www.onlamp.com/lpt/a/218

Once I had that down, I just look at the excellent wxPython demo (that
is included with wxPython) to see what widget I want to use and how it
is implemented.  Not really all that hard.

-Ruben

Rain <rain_anti_spam_rhb at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c at 4ax.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I do not want to lead a war on this topic, as there have been many
> arguments in Slashdot.
> 
> Obviously, QT is best by now if not consider the license.
> Then after google some, I found people tend to use wxPython and pyGTK.
> 
> Now I want to narrow topic and ask this question:
> Which one have a little more clear logic and easy to learn and use?
> Not considering the local platform and feeling, and the deployment.I
> know pyGTK need GTK runtime libs.



From post400 at prontomail.com  Wed Sep  3 07:39:02 2003
From: post400 at prontomail.com (post400)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 04:39:02 -0700
Subject: Writing solid code book
Message-ID: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>

Hi,

there is another famous book 'Writing solid code' but does it apply to
Python ? Or it's usable only by Microsoft C programmers ? The author
seems to be an ex-Microsoft guy !

Thanks ,
post400



From wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net  Mon Sep  8 09:38:01 2003
From: wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net (John Hall)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:38:01 GMT
Subject: More Comments on Python Redesign
References: <taAX/kKkXYUC092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1063013172.28780.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ki1plvcqhqqfbbhtaa3gm6q6k3mc29ibev@4ax.com>

Why do we need a third thread on this topic?

-- 
John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telus.net>
Cochrane, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"



From achrist at easystreet.com  Fri Sep  5 14:42:24 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:42:24 -0700
Subject: Automated code generation
References: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <vlhff5srvf1l28@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F58D910.197C3C85@easystreet.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> Yes, it's largely useless in a language as dynamic as Python.


Isn't SWIG a code generator?


Al



From lab-nospam at elikya.com  Fri Sep  5 12:54:16 2003
From: lab-nospam at elikya.com (Romuald Texier)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:54:16 +0200
Subject: in Ram database?
References: <mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f58bae9$0$13287$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

John D. wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is an "in-ram" dictionary based database
> for Python.
> 
> I can see some applications where this can really be powerful in
> applications requiring 10,000 records or less.
> 
> Is such a database available?   If so,  who is working on it,
> or where is it?
> 
> I've heard that Python supports a stand-alone database.   I looked
> for it in the Docs,  and see the "dbm" module.   I haven't found
> any examples of code,  so don't know how to use them.   I'm one
> of those guys that learn through examples,  and have very little
> luck in figuring out how to use anything unless I can see examples
> of their use.
> 
> My idea is that ALL datums would be Python Dictionary objects,  so
> not only can you store data,  but python objects as well.
> 
> Storage to disk would be through pickled files,  or through CSV
> format,  allowing easy import and export from other databases.
> 
> I'm sure something like this exists,  I just haven't found it yet,
> and if not,  then I'm well on my way of implementing one myself.
> 
> I kinda like the idea of being able to define smaller tables as
> "in-memory" types,  and the really large massive ones in other forms
> managed by mySQL, PostGres, or bsddb3 databases.
> 
> Any leads you guys???
> 

Why not just use Dictionaries, or an object tree? Why do you want tables or
SQL abstraction if it is "in-memory"? Nothing else but your app will be
able to access the "live" data, anyway.




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Sep 19 13:54:59 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:54:59 -0700
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
References: <mailman.1063989509.22137.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-9449C1.10545919092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1063989509.22137.python-list at python.org>,
 "Leeds, Mark" <mleeds at mlp.com> wrote:

> I did more investigation into my previous problem
> and what happens is that my text file has \r for representing
> a new line instead
> of a \n. is there a way to tell the readlines
> function that the symbol for a newline is \r rather
> than \n ? right now the readlines function reads
> the\r as another item in the list and just puts
> everything into one big list because it
> doesn't find any new line characters.
>  thanks. i'm really stuck because
> i can't read my data right now.

Isn't this exactly what the new universal newline format is for?
<http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0278.html>

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de  Tue Sep 23 09:49:05 2003
From: hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 06:49:05 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <87llsma4fb.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl> <95b4b9ac.0309181021.14b45d65@posting.google.com> <87ad8zsqzc.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <95b4b9ac.0309230549.80c5ca9@posting.google.com>

> So you want l[seq] to be a shorter way for current
> 
> [l[i] for i in seq]
> 
> Which is pythonic as it is explicit, easier to read if the code is not
> written by you yesterday

But consistency is pythonic, too ;-) and, as I pointed in another message,
if you accept l[sequence_abstraction], why not l[actual_sequence]??

Hilde



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Sep 24 20:58:45 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:58:45 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
Message-ID: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.
Basically, the idea looks like this:

     for  i in xrange(10).iter_backwards():    # 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0
           <do something with i>

The HTML version is much more readable than the ReST version.
See:
         http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0322.html


Several interesting ideas surfaced in the pre-pep thread:

* Call it ireverse() instead of iter_backwards().

   Good idea.  This is much more pithy.


* Use object properties instead of methods.

   I can't yet claim to understand what the author is really
   proposing.  It has something to do which providing
   access to an object that responds to iter, getitem, and
   getslice with reversed indices.


* using a single function that looks for an __riter__ magic
   method and, if not found, use __getitem__ and __len__
   to build a reverse iterator.

   A workable version of this was posted.
   It saves implementing some object methods at the
      expense of adding a new builtin function and of
      creating a new magic method name.
   It is slower than direct access to the underlying object.
   It crashes when applied to an infinite iterator.
   It produces bizarre results when applied to mappings.


* special markers for infinite iterators

   This idea is interesting but doesn't extend well
   when the object is wrapped by another iterator.
   Also, there is no automatic way to determine
   which generators can be infinite.


Raymond Hettinger





From timr at probo.com  Tue Sep  9 02:24:11 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 23:24:11 -0700
Subject: Disagree with proposed 2.4 behavior for %x formatting of signed i nts
References: <mailman.1063053673.4793.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <47sqlvo64vf5tk93qmmo2fi9pvt5ijbno2@4ax.com>

"Letbetter, Jason" <letbetter at ti.com> wrote:
>
>Consider the following:
>
>>>> print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
>__main__:1: FutureWarning: %u/%o/%x/%X of negative int will return a signed
>string in Python 2.4 and up
>0xC1F2C703
>
>If I understand the warning correctly then the following would happen after
>2.4:
>
>>>> print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
>-1041053949

You do not understand correctly.  This is what will happen:

>>> print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
0x-3E0D38FD

It will still be a hex number, but the sign will be honored, producing
possibly unexpected results.

>I think the printf format should take precedence.  It is obvious that the
>programmer wants a hex number displayed.

You'll get a hex number.  You'll just get a sign with it.

I've started three different times to post a message complaining that the
changes in 2.3 and the changes proposed in 2.4 are taking Python farther
and farther away from the cool system-level binary manipulation tool I
often use it for, but every time I get part way through it, I realize that
the changes do make sense from a consistency point of view, and that it
doesn't take that much more work to do it "right".
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 16 14:37:30 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:37:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: is importing redundantly harmful/wasteful?
Message-ID: <47871.199.169.240.132.1063737450.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

I'm writing a function and it needs to use regular expressions and the
super-fantastic mx.DateTime module.  The first lines after the doc string
in the function are:

    import re, mx.DateTime

I'll be using this function in a bunch of different programs.  Some of
those programs might need re and mx.DateTime for other tasks.

In some cases, I'll be redundantly importing these modules.  Should I care
if I'm re-importing re and mx.DateTime even after they've been imported? 
Does python do some sort of checking for this stuff or do I need to?




From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Wed Sep 17 13:11:34 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:11:34 +0400
Subject: Sound, time and platform issues
Message-ID: <bka4k6$j9a$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Hello everybody!

I need advice and expertise of the community for the following problem.

I'm going to make a psycholinguistic experiment. In this experiment the 
auditor is asked to listen to some text and to press the button when 
some event occurs. I need to find out reaction time on different inputs 
and, therefore, I need 1) rather accurate (or, at least, constantly 
biased) estimates for the moment the button was pressed, and 2) 
"real-time" sound playing.

Googling finds out several Python toolkits for dealing with sound, but 
they are for Linux, not Windows.

Therefore questions:
1. Does anybody know about Python tools that might help to solve the 
problem above for Windows?
2. Is there any C/C++ solution? (in this case I might provide Python 
bindings).
3. If there is no Windows solution, what is the simplest way to use 
Linux? I have a notebook and rather limited knowledge of Linux. I don't 
want to install Linux on the notebook---harddrive is somewhat limited. 
However, I heard that there are some variants of *nix that needs only 
boot-CD. Does anybody have experience with systems like these?

Sorry for a bunch of questions and thank you in advance.

With best regards,
anton.




From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 15:02:05 2003
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:02:05 +0100
Subject: What's the best MP3 (ID3) access library to use?
References: <182bcf76.0309290349.452a6643@posting.google.com> <87ekxzg3pg.fsf@voodoo.fake>
 <bl9rfi$m5$4@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <lls7zadu.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Jarek Zgoda <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> writes:

> Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com> pisze:
>
>>> I'm looking for a Python library to access ID3 information in MP3
>>> files. A search of Parnassus picked up a number of possibilities, but
>>> I can't work out which best suits what I'm trying to do. Some seem out
>>> of date, others are Unix only, etc. There doesn't seem to be an
>>> obvious "standard" module to use.
>> 
>> Try this: id3-py.sf.net
>> It should work on Windows but I haven't tested yet
>
> It works also on Windows, but accepts only ID3v1 tags.

Looks like I need ID3v2 tags. Thanks for the suggestion, anyway.

Paul
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 17:43:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:43:03 -0400
Subject: Clearing file object buffers
References: <784ab.4$YT6.3@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F68D567.25E828DE@engcorp.com>

disgracelands wrote:
> 
> In my code i have setup sys.stdout and sys.stderr as file objects so that i
> can easily track whats going on during the course of my program.  So far its
> proving useful but the objects seem to be buffering any text supplied to
> their write() functions and when i hit an error condition and have to exit
> early they fail to write and i'm left with empty files.
> 
> Is there any way to force the file objects to flush the buffer to file on
> disc?

fileobject.flush() will do the trick.

-Peter



From news at exultants.org  Wed Sep  3 09:46:52 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:46:52 GMT
Subject: Python REST framework?
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.03.02.59.50.703359@exultants.org> <cb035744.0309030414.731044bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.03.13.45.26.667180@exultants.org>

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 05:14:16 -0700, Will Stuyvesant wrote:
> Thanks for that interesting link.  But I could not find the sample Python
> code...

Oops, my apology!  I just scanned the page *really fast* and the shell code
registered as Python.  I better perform the sackcloth and ashes
ritual to regain Python purity.

Van




From axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com  Tue Sep  9 08:45:54 2003
From: axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com (Axel Straschil)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:45:54 +0200
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
Message-ID: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>

Hello!

Im fouling around with xml/xslt and zope. 
Now, im seraching for a simple codesample or link
for a simple xslt-tranformation in python and libxml
or 4Suite.
I've test.xml, test.xsl or two vars with the code
and wan't to transform it. 
Google just helped me for C ...

Thanks,
AXEL.



From paul.moore at atosorigin.com  Mon Sep 15 15:44:08 2003
From: paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:08 +0100
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com> <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <brtl7s6v.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> "Paul Moore" <paul.moore at atosorigin.com> wrote in message
> news:182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482 at posting.google.com...

>> 1. Get the last day of the month contatining a given date(time). I
>> really was surprised to find this one missing, as it seems to me that
>> the datetime module must know what the last day for each month is, so
>> exposing it wouldn't have been hard.
>
> I'm kind of surprised to see that it's missing, too.

The best solution I could find was

def month_end(dt):
    # Get the next month
    y, m = dt.year, dt.month
    if m == 12:
        y += 1
        m = 1
    else:
        m += 1

    # Use replace to cater for both datetime and date types. This
    # leaves the time component of a datetime unchanged - it's
    # arguable whether this is the right thing.

    return dt.replace(year=y, month=m, day=1) - datetime.timedelta(days=1)

It's not hard - but it's mildly tricky (I made a few false starts and
some silly off-by-one errors) and I'd much rather grab it from a
library than make the same mistakes next time I need it.

>> 2. Add a number of months to a date. This is messy, as there are
>> options (what is one month after 31st Jan). The trouble is that the
>> calculation, while simple, is tricky to get right (month is 1-based,
>> so off-by-1 errors are easy to make, and divmod isn't as useful as
>> you'd first think).
>
> That's application dependent.

True. But for "naive" use, a simple definition does. This is in line
with the datetime module's philosophy of not trying to cater for
"advanced" uses, but to provide something useful for straightforward
use. In this particular case, I'd argue that the obvious definition
(same day number N months on) where applicable, plus a well-documented
"reasonable" answer for the edge cases (eg, Jan 31 plus 1 month) is
useful. In practice, I suspect that 99% of cases involve adding a
number of months to either the first or the last of a month.

> If a bond, for example, has interest payable on the 30th of the
> month, you probably want the 30th, except in February you want the
> last day of the month. However, the contract may specify something
> else. And in no case do you want the date to suddenly change to the
> 28th because you went through February.

But that's not so much a case of adding a month, as a more complex
concept, a "repeating date". Nevertheless, I take your point.

>> In the absence of anything else, I'll probably write a "date
>> utilities" module for myself at some point. But I'd hate to be
>> reinventing the wheel.
>
> There's a very well regarded date module out there in the
> Vaults of Parnassus. The name escapes me at the moment,
> but a bit of spelunking through the Vaults will turn up several
> date routines that may do what you want.

I guess you're thinking of mxDateTime. I'm aware of this, and agree
that it's pretty comprehensive. I don't really know why I prefer not
to use it - partly it's just a case of reducing dependencies, also
there are already so many date types in my code (COM, cx_Oracle,
datetime) that I am reluctant to add another - there is already far
too much code devoted to converting representations...

Thanks for the comments,
Paul.
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank



From stuart at bmsi.com  Mon Sep 22 20:50:13 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:50:13 -0400
Subject: Python ISPs
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064036431.23623.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HNMbb.7669$sp2.148@lakeread04>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:38:57 -0400, Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 13:24, Paradox wrote:
>> Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most seem
>> to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is this a
>> viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to leverage
>> my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust solution.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I just started a new job at
> http://www.commandprompt.com and I convinced my boss yesterday that
> Python-friendly hosting would be a good thing.  If you're interested you
> can email me offlist.  We're pretty open to most things, including
> third-party modules, specific Python version installs and the like.
> There's only a few things my boss won't bend on (No Windows [Linux
> only], no MySQL [PostgreSQL only], no gaping security holes).  Other
> than that, we're open to most other things.

I was thinking about the security aspects of this.  Wouldn't it be a good
idea to have each client (or the hosting company) run their own Python VM?
 It could use fast_cgi so the VM would stay loaded.  Python does not have
enough isolation to make multiple clients within a single VM a good idea.

We do this with Java (even though Java provides much better isolation than
Python, it is still pretty easy to DOS a VM with infinite loops and memory
hogging).

In addition to fast_cgi, the Python code can run its own micro web
server, and the shared Apached server simply proxies a subtree to the
Python server.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.



From mwh at python.net  Thu Sep 25 07:20:27 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:20:27 GMT
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com> <7h3smmm2m0w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <0ck3nvoicm45kb0oon2etsucttatc3aob7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3ad8t2k6q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:28:25 GMT, rumours say that Michael Hudson
> <mwh at python.net> might have written:
> 
> >I may be wrong, but I thought that audioop and imageop only work in a
> >32 bit environment.
> 
> I found an old post by Guido (1998) asking for testers in 64-bit
> environments; it seems that the work he did then (and perhaps some later
> work by him or others) gave fruit.
> 
> I checked the source (of audioop at least), and there are some #ifdef
> code at the start of it, assuring the type used in calculations is 4
> bytes long.
> The tests ran fine! :)

Oh, fine.  You'll probably have to dig into setup.py to find why
they're not building on itanium -- not having one, it's not the sort
of thing I can really motivate myself about :-)

Cheers,
mwh
PS: hp-ux/itanium appears to be utterly horked...

-- 
  C is not clean -- the language has _many_ gotchas and traps, and
  although its semantics are _simple_ in some sense, it is not any
  cleaner than the assembly-language design it is based on.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp



From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Wed Sep 24 16:16:03 2003
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:16:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <mailman.1064411556.18402.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bksu23$rp0$1@news.island.liu.se>

Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> [Klaus Alexander Seistrup]

>> This will yield a false positive and potential damage if the OS has
>> spawned another process with the same pid, and running under your uid,
>> as the task you wanted to supervise.

> Granted in theory, yet this does not seem to be considered a real
> problem in practice.  To generate another process with the same pid, the
> system would need to generate so many intermediate processes that the
> process counter would overflow and come back to its current value.

There it least one Unix that reuse process ids immediately when
they are free.  A vague memory says that it is AIX that does
this, but I'm not sure; it could be some of the BSD dialects too.

And on most other Unices start to reuse process ids *long* before
they reach 2^31.

However, in this very case, *that* isn't a problem.  The process
id won't be free to reuse until the parent has called wait(2) to
reap its child.  On the other hand, that means that kill(pid, 0)
won't signal an error even after the child has died; the zombie
is still there...

    >>> import os, time
    >>> def f():
    ...     child = os.fork()
    ...     if child == 0:
    ...             time.sleep(10)
    ...             print "Exit:", time.ctime()
    ...             os._exit(0)
    ...     else:
    ...             return child
    ...
    >>> p = f()
    Wed Sep 24 21:52:38 2003
    >>> os.kill(p, 0)
    >>> Exit: Wed Sep 24 21:53:38 2003
    >>> os.kill(p, 0)			# Note no error
    >>> os.kill(p, 0)			# Still no error
    >>> os.wait()
    (30242, 0)
    >>> os.kill(p, 0)			# *Now* we get an error
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    OSError: [Errno 3] No such process

> The
> `kill(pid, 0)' trick is still the way people seem to do it.

If they do so when waiting for a child process to exit, they will
have problems...

> Do you know anything reasonably simple, safer, and that does the job?

See my .signature. :-)

-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"Life IS pain, highness.  Anyone who tells   !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 differently is selling something."          !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!



From bryonrigg at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 11 17:57:57 2003
From: bryonrigg at yahoo.com (Bryon Rigg)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 14:57:57 -0700
Subject: jython registry file lookup in J2EE environment
Message-ID: <fc2b2af2.0309111357.9706e6f@posting.google.com>

As I read the instructions, jython requires that the python.home
system property be set or the location of the jython.jar be in the
java.class.path sstem.property (aka the classpath that was passed to
the JVM).

I want to be able to add jython to web applications such that each web
app has its own registry file.  Because the methods of finding the
python.home described above are global to the JVM, this does not
appear to be possible.

Has anyone ran into this problem before?  Any solutions/suggestions I
should try?

Thanks in advance



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Sep 23 07:00:31 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 13:00:31 +0200
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkicq0$vl5$0@216.39.172.122> <tyfvfrjhmsb.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <33Vbb.146289$R32.4736926@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <tyf4qz3hir4.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> Jacek Generowicz wrote:
>    ...
> > Or, you could let _any_ (keywordless) function benefit from its own
> > experience:
> 
> This "_any_ (keywordless) function" is a substantial overbid.

Of course.

Sentence written in haste, and therefore hopelessly inaccurate.

Mea culpa.




From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 16:58:35 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:58:35 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)
References: <mailman.1063741374.30034.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%PK9b.13530$x21.9926@twister.southeast.rr.com>

ALL answers are in books. The question is to know the right book and the right page.
Google sometimes doesn't help too much. That's what the newsgroups are for. :)
Actually, 20 lines of simple application would be enough for me now.

I thought somebody might have already done it w/o Pwm, with Tkinter only.
Bad luck.

M-a-S


"mark" <mark at diversiform.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1063741374.30034.python-list at python.org...
> Pardon me for saying so, but you've been posting a bunch of questions
> that a good book can answer.  As far as this question in particular,
> take a look at 'Python and Tkinter Programming' by John E. Grayson.  Pmw
> contains a widget called balloon, which performs the function you are
> seeking.
>
> - Mark
>
> Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)
>
> How can I have tooltips for buttons of a toolbar
> or for control items of a dialog?
> Does such feature exist at all?
>
> M-a-S
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 15:46:53 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:46:53 +0100
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <DYecnbE8ncWnXOiiU-KYvA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <s4pbnv4gkl84hs1bqcvjjuuk3dv6iiod55@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:56:25 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>Sorry, wrong.  Tuple notation for single slices givea a different
>result.

A different implementation, but this is a high level language. The
caller is supposed to worry about the purpose of the syntax, not (as
far as possible) the implementation.

The idea that single slices *should* behave in a different way to
extended slices seem bizarre to me - the kind of thing that arises out
of historic issues rather than out of principle. And if they really
*should* have different meanings, why does this inconsistency
disappear at the first opportunity to remove it without back
compatibility issues (ie in new style classes), for which __getitem__
is called with a slice object (and no -ve index translation) for both
single and extended slices.

This isn't a criticism of Python - it is simply an example of how new
style classes has allowed vestiges from a less flexible past to be
tidied up. Python has grown without becoming a house of cards - that
is a good thing.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Sep 26 12:43:08 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:43:08 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322: Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com>
 <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu>
 <YwGd/kKkXQgH092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <cyGd/kKkXYQB092yn@gnosis.cx>         

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote previously:
|ireverse, like imap(), izip(), etc., suggests that the operation happens
|without the memory overhead of copying the whole sequence into a list
|before reversing it.  Do you have some plan for how to do that e.g. with
|simple generators?  Or easy to understand explanation for which things
|can be ireversed and which can't?

Or even just a DECIDABLE explanation for which things can be 'ireversed'
and which can't[*].

Yours, Lulu...

[*] And if you -can- produce such an explanation, I can almost guarantee
you a Fields Medal, and probably a Nobel Prize also.

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep  8 14:18:22 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:18:22 -0400
Subject: Python boxed set
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
 <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list@python.org> <LGAX/kKkXUzX092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1062995770.27529.python-list@python.org>
 <m3oexv72eb.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
Message-ID: <ufMX/kKkXobE092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

Nick Vargish <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote previously:
|> Just email <send-me-money at gnosis.cx> for details on payment/shipping.
|> The first order may take an extra week for setup time (it might take a
|> couple days for me to talk to my local copy-shop about printing the box
|> and so on).  [only *wink*ing inasmuch as I question the market, for even
|> one $299 sale, I really would create something quite nice looking]

|How much of this $299 would go to the PSF? And how much would go to
|the David-needs-a-yacht fund? I could probably get my boss to order 4
|or 5 such boxed distributions...

Well... maybe it would be the David-needs-a-canoe fund; I'd have to sell
quite a few before I'd be thinking about the yacht (to sail my local
Connecticut River, I guess).

How serious does anyone else think the market for a Python boxed set
would be?  If some people such a thing would actually sell some copies,
I wouldn't mind putting some work into making nice covers for the box,
formatting the documentation nicely, and the like.  And presumably
giving most of the money to the PSF, especially if someone wanted to
give me a hand with the project.  FWIW, I -do- own a little consulting
corporation, which may mean something for business/tax purposes.

Yours, David...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Sep 24 22:28:25 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:28:25 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <vn4kn8gaemsb14@news.supernews.com>

I think it says what needs to be said.

+1

John Roth

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message
news:95rcb.2002$yU5.1775 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.
> Basically, the idea looks like this:
>
>      for  i in xrange(10).iter_backwards():    # 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0
>            <do something with i>
>
> The HTML version is much more readable than the ReST version.
> See:
>          http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0322.html
>
>
> Several interesting ideas surfaced in the pre-pep thread:
>
> * Call it ireverse() instead of iter_backwards().
>
>    Good idea.  This is much more pithy.
>
>
> * Use object properties instead of methods.
>
>    I can't yet claim to understand what the author is really
>    proposing.  It has something to do which providing
>    access to an object that responds to iter, getitem, and
>    getslice with reversed indices.
>
>
> * using a single function that looks for an __riter__ magic
>    method and, if not found, use __getitem__ and __len__
>    to build a reverse iterator.
>
>    A workable version of this was posted.
>    It saves implementing some object methods at the
>       expense of adding a new builtin function and of
>       creating a new magic method name.
>    It is slower than direct access to the underlying object.
>    It crashes when applied to an infinite iterator.
>    It produces bizarre results when applied to mappings.
>
>
> * special markers for infinite iterators
>
>    This idea is interesting but doesn't extend well
>    when the object is wrapped by another iterator.
>    Also, there is no automatic way to determine
>    which generators can be infinite.
>
>
> Raymond Hettinger
>
>





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sat Sep 13 18:15:06 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:15:06 -0600
Subject: stripping a string
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030913160504.0359f670@66.28.54.253>

At 02:51 PM 9/13/2003, Leeds, Mark wrote:

>hello : i am very much a python novice because
>I only use it for preprocessing data that
>i send into another language called Splus.
>
>I have the following problem that
>I have spent a lot of time on but I
>can't figure out.
>
>I have a string called tickerstring
>that might be
>
>"ANL LN32"
>
>and i want to get rid of the digit piece.
>so that i get "ANL LN"
>
>i can't just take off the last two charcters
>because the string could also be
>
>"ANL LN3" for example.

import re
result = re.findall(r'(\D*)\d*',  source)[0]

will remove any number of trailing digits.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

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From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Sat Sep 27 04:54:24 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:54:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3f755040-60d3252a-a4c8-4da8-850c-4dd661983a2d@news.szn.dk>

Rune Hansen wrote:

> >>> unicode("Gratis ?l","iso-8859-1")
> u'Gratis \xf8l'
> >>>ord("\xf8")
> 248
>
> What I need is the converted string to read u'Gratis \248l' (*
> How do I do this without going through each and every character
> of the string?

How about

#v+

>>> print unicode('Gratis ?l', 'iso-8859-1').encode('utf-8')
Gratis ??l
>>> 

#v-


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From amk at amk.ca  Tue Sep  9 12:16:19 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:16:19 -0500
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:06:07 -0500, 
	Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> Obviously, the links available directly from the front page need careful
> consideration.  I visit python.org 90% of the time for documentation
> (though usually through a bookmark to python.org/doc/lib), 5% for PEPs,
> 5% for links to sf tracker items (using URLs provided in e-mail), and 1%
> (oops, I'm up to 101%) to download a new Python release.  My needs are
> probably atypical, though.

So, are the modified links at http://www.amk.ca/python.org.html
an improvement?  Note the different sidebar and top navbar links.

(Hmmm... there's no PEP link, though.)

--amk



From mnations at airmail.net  Thu Sep 25 17:30:23 2003
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 14:30:23 -0700
Subject: Listbox: How do I empty the view in the window
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0309251330.2162e494@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I can't figure this out. I want the ability to delete an item in a
listbox and leave the window area blank, like it is when the listbox
is first created and nothing selected.

Right now the following is happening. If I simply delete the item in
the listbox, that item will stay in the view window until another item
is selected. Or I can select an item in the listbox as active and then
view it, but I don't want to do that.

I'm using the listbox to allow a user to either enter or select on
option. As a result, I need the ability to clear out the window so
they can type in their own selection.

Can someone tell me how to do this?

Thanks,
Marc



From amk at amk.ca  Thu Sep 11 14:25:18 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:25:18 -0500
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org> <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <3F5E0171.B68BDE2F@engcorp.com> <_WydnXPHCO6oksOiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <3F5E143D.356E8CF1@engcorp.com> <1ocslvsomoiap7ccnqfnaugut3t5fkqcgg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <_ZmdncbLStCTI_2iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:24:07 GMT, 
	Gary Feldman <gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net> wrote:
> The horizontal banner really only needs a handful of items:

Good suggestion; I've updated http://www.amk.ca/python.org.html to match.
The resulting top bar, with only six options, is quite nice.

Should there be a sidebar link to the development version of the docs, as
well as the 2.2/2.3 versions?  What to call it, so that newbies don't
stumble into it by accident and wonder why some features are missing from
their 2.3 installation?  "In development", "CVS version", "Development
draft", something else?

--amk



From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 23:08:28 2003
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 20:08:28 -0700
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <eppstein-22C96A.10011623092003@news.service.uci.edu> <3f70a03d$1_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0309231908.379c3946@posting.google.com>

"Tina Li" <tina_li23 AT hotmail DOT com> wrote in message news:<3f70a03d$1_4 at corp.newsgroups.com>:
> Thanks for the suggestion. It does solve my problem -- but just out of curiosity, I'd like to know what caused the
> over-limit as well.

That was caused by the multitude of non-greedy quantifiers you've got
in there.

If you haven't yet read Friedl's "Mastering Regular Expressions," it's
quite elucidating.

Jeremy



From joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de  Sun Sep  7 17:05:26 2003
From: joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=F6rg?= Maier)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:05:26 +0200
Subject: cygwin python with Tkinter and pexpect module
References: <bjd4t7$gn0fe$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1062889930.9015.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjg6m7$imfc4$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de>

Jason, 

As said anywhere else as proposal to solve this problem:

works like a charm.

Thank you
J?rg Maier

> On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 07:16:39PM +0200, J?rg Maier wrote:
>> it works in cygwin-python from command-line, but invoked in an
>> Tkinter-Program i got the strange Exception:
>> E:\cygwin\bin\python2.3.exe: *** unable to remap E:\cygwin\bin\tk84.dll
>> to same address as parent(0x710000) != 0xC20000 28
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Is this a bug in cygwin tcltk?
> 
> No, you have been bitten by the Cygwin fork() issue:
> 
>    
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=unable+remap+same+address+parent&btnG=Google+Search
> 
> The solution is to install the rebase package via Cygwin's setup.exe and
> rebase your system.
> 
> Please read the README:
> 
>     http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.2.README
> 
> Jason
> 

-- 
Hi
I am a signature virus. 
Please copy me to your .signature file to help me spread.



From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Sun Sep 28 19:00:46 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 16:00:46 -0700
Subject: Distutils Configuration for Visual Studio 6?
References: <924a9f9c.0309280919.188478bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0309281500.1e3fce2@posting.google.com>

JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox) wrote in message news:<924a9f9c.0309280919.188478bb at posting.google.com>...
> I have tried to run setup from source for PyOpenGL and PIL and on both
> I get this error
> 
> "error: Python was built with version 6 of Visual Studio, and
> extensions need to be built with the same version of the compiler, but
> it isn't installed."
> 
> I definitely have VS6 installed. I can't figure out were in the code
> this error is getting generated and it doesn't mention anything about
> VS in the distutils documentation. Does anyone know how to get around
> this error?
> 
>                                   Thanks Joey

Make sure you've actually run the Visual Studio GUI at least once to
get the proper registry entries.  This was just brought up as bug
#810263 on sourceforge.

Also make sure you've run the vcvars32.bat file under VC++'s bin entry
to setup the environment for commandline usage.



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Mon Sep 15 13:00:57 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:57 -0300
Subject: datetime: How to get diff between 2 dates in month units?
In-Reply-To: <46665.199.169.240.132.1063639147.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
References: <56819.199.169.240.132.1063397952.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net> <20030915000631.GB27698@ibook> <46665.199.169.240.132.1063639147.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <20030915170057.GD30600@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> This is a great module.  Thanks for the link.  What do you think about
> using operator overloading to avoid having to do the
> mx.DateTime.RelativeDateDiff(...) function instead?

It's not possible. The operator is already overloaded to return a
DateTimeDelta, just like the datetime -> timedelta relation.

Btw, I'm working on a relativedelta type which is based on the idea of
RelativeDateDiff, but will work on the python 2.3 standard datetime type
(the algorithm will be a little bit different as well). It'll be ready
soon.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Sep  7 15:31:34 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:31:34 -0400
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8ridnT90lcIKGsaiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>

"dan" <danbmil99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985 at posting.google.com...
> I was recently surprised, and quite shocked in fact, to find that
> Python treats negative indices into sequence types as if they were
> mod(length-of-sequence), at least up to -len(seq).

No, it adds len(seq).  Changing + to % would be slower and more
obscure.

> This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs,

No more so than everything else in chapter subsections.  From the Ref
Man table of contents I went directly to the most obvious place 5.3.2
Subscriptions, and found
'''
If the primary is a sequence, the expression (list) must evaluate to a
plain integer. If this value is negative, the length of the sequence
is added to it (so that, e.g., x[-1] selects the last item of x.) The
resulting value must be a nonnegative integer less than the number of
items in the sequence, and the subscription selects the item whose
index is that value (counting from zero).
'''
Translated to Python, letting idex be result of index expression:

if not isinstance(idex, (int,long)): raise TypeError()
if idex < 0: idex += seqlen
if idex < 0 or idex >= seqlen: raise IndexError()
<get seq[idex]>

> and is not at all intuitive.

Phrases like 'third from the end' are idiomatic English ;-)

>  One of the big advantages of a high-level language such as Python
is
> the ability to provide run-time bounds checking on array-type
> constructs.  To achieve this I will now have to subclass my objects
> and add it myself, which seems silly and will add significant
> overhead.  If you want this behavior, how hard is it to say a = b[x
%
> len(b)] ??

Again, your innovation of using '% obscures rather than clarify.

> Can anyone explain why this anomaly exists, and why it should
continue
> to exist?

Being able to abbreviate seq(len(seq)-1] as seq[-1] is quite handy and
faster executing, , especially if seq is calculated from an
expression.  Same for -2, etc.  (And, of course, a change now would
break a noticeable fraction of existing programs.)

Terry J. Reedy





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 10 16:19:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:19:14 -0400
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F8742.C1C66903@engcorp.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
> 
> The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of
> lightweight concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there
> any similarly nice way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around
> (perhaps in the middle of a loop) and wait until some other routine
> (unknown to the waiting module) hurls a value in?
> 
> If this is not implemented now, is there any chance that it's on the
> list of things to come?

Queue.Queue.get() ...

-Peter



From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Sep 24 09:11:27 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:11:27 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
In-Reply-To: <7h3smmm4bkj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
 <3F6DD4D7.AF309B4@hotmail.com> <bkqj0q$4vr$0@216.39.144.46>
 <7h3smmm4bkj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309241605480.28659@sampo.csc.fi>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Michael Hudson wrote:

> Paul <paul at oz.net> writes:
>
> > What's the best way to do this under Python 2.1?
> > I believe socket.timeout was a 2.3 feature.
> > Wrap it in threads?
>
> There's Tim O'Malley's timeoutsocket.py (google for it), which was the
> inspiration for the feature in 2.3 (though I don't think any code from
> there actually survived).

I can't get the timeoutsocket module to work on my Redhat Linux! (The
timeout works fine on Windows 2000.) I'm running Python 2.2.2.

Here's the test code:

import timeoutsocket
timeoutsocket.setDefaultSocketTimeout(1)
s = timeoutsocket.socket(timeoutsocket.AF_INET, timeoutsocket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.connect(("www.google.com", 80))
s.close()

Any ideas?

/Mickel G.




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Sep 17 04:38:42 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:38:42 +0200
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
In-Reply-To: <20030917103202.0d90966a.max@fr.fm>
References: <20030917103202.0d90966a.max@fr.fm>
Message-ID: <3F681D92.9090601@mxm.dk>

Maxime Biais wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I heard that is possible to replace %(word) in a string with a dictionary
> containing { "word" : "replaced word" } with a function or a builtin from
> the python library.
> 
> For example with the string: "hello, %(word1) %(word2) !" and the
> dictionary: {"word1" : "python", "word2" : "lovers"} the final string
> would be: "hello python lovers"


You are almost there.

"hello, %(word1)s %(word2)s !" % {"word1":"python", "word2":"lovers"}

 >>>'hello, python lovers !'

regards Max M




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Sep 25 06:47:19 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:47:19 +0200
Subject: getting a value from a web-page
In-Reply-To: <d3c9c04.0309250049.2f06b7d5@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1064454334.1269.python-list@python.org> <d3c9c04.0309250049.2f06b7d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030925104719.GA3106@nl.linux.org>

Mark Carter wrote:
> > And a value from an excel located in a web-server? (Sheet1!cell A1)
> 
> Do you mean an excel file located on your server, or somebody else's
> server? If it is on your server, you could manipulate the file
> directly using Mark Hammond's excellent win32all:
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

Is it possible to do so without Windows?

Gerrit.

-- 
173. If this woman bear sons to her second husband, in the place to
which she went, and then die, her earlier and later sons shall divide the
dowry between them.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From kendall at monkeyfist.com  Mon Sep  8 14:21:00 2003
From: kendall at monkeyfist.com (Kendall Grant Clark)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:21:00 -0400
Subject: Python REST framework?
In-Reply-To: <bj34bb$e5gpd$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org>
	<bj34bb$e5gpd$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <16220.51340.142583.189556@rosa.monkeyfist.com>

>>>>> "dave" == Dave Kuhlman <dkuhlman at rexx.com> writes:

  dave> And, here are several documents explaining how to add complex
  dave> logic to a REST application using a finite state machine (FSM)
  dave> model:

  dave> http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/fsm_howto.html
  dave> http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/fsmGenerate_howto.html

In addition to Dave's very cool stuff, there's also Mark Nottingham's
(incomplete, last I checked) Tarawa framework, which should be easily
googlable.

Webken, while not Python (Java, iirc), is also worth a look. I also echo
other folks suggestions that Quixote makes an ideal basis for REST web
services in Python.

I recently signed on with O'Reilly to do a book about REST web services,
and since Python is my preferred language, I'm hoping to include as much
Py stuff in the book as they will let me get away with (Python book sales
being what they are, though, that may not be as much as I would like).

Kendall Clark
-- 
Nobody said it was easy
No one ever said it would be this hard
Oh take me back to the start
  	       	--Coldplay, The Scientist




From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Tue Sep 30 12:55:46 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 09:55:46 -0700
Subject: wxImage and Group 4 Tiffs?
References: <924a9f9c.0309290721.35301892@posting.google.com> <cD%db.27303$lZ6.5679934@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309300855.19d6f46f@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the info but if I wanted to do that then I would just
compile libtiff into PIL. Why do you need to build python in order to
compile PIL? I get a link error trying to find all the python
libraries. Is there a way around this that doesn't involve compiling
python from source.


                                       Thanks Joey



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Sep 17 13:03:58 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:03:58 -0400
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
In-Reply-To: <20030917164148.12135.qmail@web16903.mail.tpe.yahoo.com>
References: <20030917164148.12135.qmail@web16903.mail.tpe.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F6893FE.6070106@rogers.com>

fortepianissimo wrote:

>But this created two lists (keys and dummy)? Compared to the filter()
>method, which created a list and a new set, maybe your suggestion is
>still a bit faster...
>  
>
Generators will probably be the easiest way to avoid the list-creation 
overhead...

 >>> from __future__ import generators
 >>> def fget( s, function ):
...     for item in s:
...         if function(item):
...             yield item
...            
 >>> r = Set.Set( range(20))
 >>> Set.Set( fget(r, lambda x: x%2))
[19, 1, 3, 17, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15]
 >>>

HTH,
Mike

>--- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>    fortepianissimo> I know I can do things like
>>    fortepianissimo> s=Set(range(1,11))
>>    fortepianissimo> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))
>>
>>    fortepianissimo> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a
>>list
>>    fortepianissimo> which then must be converted back to a set. Any
>>tips?
>>    
>>
...
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From john at rygannon.com  Mon Sep  1 05:37:04 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (BadJake)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:37:04 GMT
Subject: ANN: BlackAdder V1.0.0
References: <3f48a498$3$219$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <cb035744.0308242307.2d51bcd2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1061796903.9838.python-list@python.org> <1Kj2b.61523$bo1.38258@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3f4a7ba0$0$250$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <m34r04tvk7.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org> <6ee58e07.0308271035.47219550@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f5312b0$0$207$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi

I think I should clear up this misunderstanding. Firstly, I work for
theKompany.com. I do not work on BA, but the project I do work on, Rekall,
would be nothing but "yet_another_database_client_frontend" without Python.
The idea of me becoming a reseller came from Shawn Gordon himself. I don't
actually make any extra money, since the PayPal account used on rygannon.com
is actually theKompany.com's PayPal account. The reason for dividing sales
between theKompany.com and Rygannon.com is to reduce Shawn's work load, so
that he can concentate more on maketing and promotion of theKompany's
product line

Regards
John



From newsmaster at eris.qinetiq.com  Wed Sep 24 08:37:11 2003
From: newsmaster at eris.qinetiq.com (Ed)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:37:11 +0100
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com> <3F6DD4D7.AF309B4@hotmail.com> <bkqj0q$4vr$0@216.39.144.46>
Message-ID: <bks35n$347$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com>

Have a look at:

http://www.nongnu.org/bothans/pydoc/common.timeoutsocket.html

Paul wrote:

> What's the best way to do this under Python 2.1?
> I believe socket.timeout was a 2.3 feature.
> Wrap it in threads?
> 
> I'd like to do something similar for the Gibraltar
> Linux firewall CD, but it only comes with Python 2.1.
> 
> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> -- Paul




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sat Sep 27 12:17:53 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:17:53 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>
 <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com>
 <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it>
 <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it>
 <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:22:37 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
> wrote:
>
>>David Abrahams wrote:
>>   ...
>>> Well, (understanding that you don't nececessarily agree with the
>>> above) you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual C++
>>> iterator protocol, 
>>
>>You mean there's an std::pair::begin etc?!  OK, I guess I'm even
>>rustier on standard C++ than I thought I was -- I could have SWORN
>>there wasn't.  (Std chapter & verse pls?  I plan to win bets based
>>on this tidbit...!-).  So I guess the lack of those in gcc is a
>>breach of the Standard on gcc's part...?
>
> Somehow I think David is mistaken here - I cannot believe that
> dereferencing an iterator returns a different datatype depending on
> which item it happens to point to at runtime in statically typed
> C++,

You didn't read carefully enough: I said std::pair<T,T>, not
std::pair<T,U>.

> and without that ability to dereference the iterator (1) I cannot see
> the point of iterating through a pair, and (2) the 'iterator' would
> not be a true iterator as C++ iterators have to comply with one of a
> set of standard protocols (forward, bidirectional, random etc) which
> all include subscripting.

I'm pretty well familiar with those protocols - I've been working on
the C++ standards committee since 1997 and have written several
related proposals, c.f. http://tinyurl.com/ovpe.

> Of course you can iterate through a container that holds std::pair
> objects - you do that every time you iterate through an std::map - but
> that isn't the same thing.

No, definitely not.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep  9 14:11:09 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:11:09 +0200
Subject: Disagree with proposed 2.4 behavior for %x formatting of signed
 i nts
In-Reply-To: <47sqlvo64vf5tk93qmmo2fi9pvt5ijbno2@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1063053673.4793.python-list@python.org> <47sqlvo64vf5tk93qmmo2fi9pvt5ijbno2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bjl53p$j22$07$2@news.t-online.com>

Tim Roberts wrote:

> You do not understand correctly.  This is what will happen:
> 
> 
>>>>print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
> 
> 0x-3E0D38FD

Actually, what *will* happen is

-0x3E0D38FD

> I've started three different times to post a message complaining that the
> changes in 2.3 and the changes proposed in 2.4 are taking Python farther
> and farther away from the cool system-level binary manipulation tool I
> often use it for, but every time I get part way through it, I realize that
> the changes do make sense from a consistency point of view, and that it
> doesn't take that much more work to do it "right".

Indeed. You can still do all binary manipulations that you want to do.

Regards,
Martin




From guineapig at pi.be  Wed Sep  3 05:37:47 2003
From: guineapig at pi.be (Tom Van den Brandt)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:37:47 +0200
Subject: pyQT pushButton
Message-ID: <bj4cn1$ibu$1@reader10.wxs.nl>

Hello,

Is there anyone using pyQt who can tell me if I can set/change the internal
id of a pushbutton myself ?  I can't find anything in the docs...

Tnx,

-- 
Tom Van den Brandt
I try...



From no at spamplease.com  Sun Sep 28 19:49:08 2003
From: no at spamplease.com (Bob)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:49:08 -0700
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
References: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Qb2dnfDBYeUY7uqiRVn-hg@giganews.com>

Hi Dan-

I use UltraEdit.  Works well for me.  Works well for jbase development too.
:-)

-Bob Coleman, Portland OR

"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0 at 4ax.com...
> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
> looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
> methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.
>
> I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
> it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.
>
> This is something I got use to in Smalltalk and have found it quite
> useful when working on several methods that work closely together.
>
> Daniel Klein





From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 30 23:31:10 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:31:10 GMT
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn61legdn9jf56@news.supernews.com> <2c9knv86m1il4ajng85655dm7u5j5b992i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2Ureb.10786$NX3.1457@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Stephen Horne:
> I can see the use an application of 'else', of course - if you use
> 'break' to end a loop you may need different cleanup and therefore
> need to skip the standard cleanup. But if this is an issue I'm
> probably already using raise rather than break because it's most
> likely an error rather than a normal case.
>
> My guess is that it probably made a lot more sense before exceptions
> were added to Python.

I don't agree.  Here's an example from my code.  The
Match returns an iterator and all the matches have the
same number of atoms, so I want to get that number
if there are any matches or 0 if there are no atoms.

for mb in mcss.Match(mol):
    # All matches are equally maximal, so pick one
    n = mb.NumAtoms()
    break
else:
    # No hits
    n = 0

This example could be replaced with

n = 0
for mb in mcss.Match(mol):
    n = mbNumAtoms()
    break

But consider binhex.py, which does

for c in data:
    if not x.isspace() and (c<' ' or ord(c) > 0x7f):
        break
else:
    finfo.Type = 'TEXT'

Without else: this is written as

flg = 0
for c in data:
  if not x.isspace() and (c<' ' or ord(c) > 0x7f):
        flg = 1
        break
if not flg:
    finfo.Type = 'TEXT'

which is obviously more cumbersome.  But I don't
see how using exceptions make this any nicer.


Here's an example from _strptime.py

for value in to_convert:
    if value != '':
        break
else:
    return ''
 ... do things with to_convert and return a regexp string

Again, the standard solution without an 'else:' is
to have a flag, which looks uglier.

In my search, I didn't see any examples which were
better done with exceptions -- and since (string) exceptions
existed in the language for a long time (from the start
I would imagine and definitely pre-1.3, which is
about when I started), I find it hard to believe that
your statement reflects what really happened.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Sep  5 10:39:31 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:39:31 -0500
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
In-Reply-To: <1062603492.3f560ae4ea60d@mcherm.com>
References: <1062603492.3f560ae4ea60d@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <20030905143926.GA11614@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 08:38:12AM -0700, Michael Chermside wrote:
> So submit the bugreport, but I'm guessing that slices will remain
> unhashable. IIRC, Guido felt that the risk of confusion (folks 
> thinking that {}[1:2] would return some part or subset of the dict) 
> was greater than the utility of using slices as keys in a dict

One interpretation of dict slicing:
    def slice_dict(d, s):
        ret = {}
        if s.stop > s.start:
            if s.step is None:
                for k, v in d.iteritems():
                    if k >= s.start and k < s.stop:
                        ret[k] = v
            else:       
                for k, v in d.iteritems():
                    if k >= s.start and k < s.stop and ((k-s.start) % s.step) == 0:
                        ret[k] = v
        else:
            raise NotImplementedError("lazy")
            
        return ret
        
>>> d = dict([(x, None) for x in range(20)])
>>> l = range(20)
>>> print slice_dict(d, slice(3,7)).keys(), l[3:7]
[3, 4, 5, 6] [3, 4, 5, 6]
>>> print slice_dict(d, slice(3,7,2)).keys(), l[3:7:2]
[3, 5] [3, 5]
>>> d = dict([(x, None) for x in string.lowercase])
>>> slice_dict(d, slice('d', 'p')).keys() 
['e', 'd', 'g', 'f', 'i', 'h', 'k', 'j', 'm', 'l', 'o', 'n']

On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 08:38:12AM -0700, Michael Chermside wrote:
> (for which, I believe, he was unable to come up with a single
> plausible use case).

One use of slices as dict keys (memoized slicing of a user type):
    class SliceIndexCache:
        def __init__(self):
                self._cache = None

        def compute_slice(self, sl): raise NotImplementedError

        def compute_index(self): raise NotImplementedError

        def __getitem__(self, i):
            if not self._cache.has_key(i):
                if isinstance(i, slice):
                    self._cache[i] = compute_slice(i)
                else:
                    self._cache[i] = compute_index(i)
            return self._cache[i]




From palindrome12345 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 10 20:58:24 2003
From: palindrome12345 at hotmail.com (Preston H)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 17:58:24 -0700
Subject: Embeddor Woes...
Message-ID: <ab261cb1.0309101658.5357ed1a@posting.google.com>

Hello, someone may have tackled this problem before but I have
searched the google newsgroups up and down and I can't find anything
on this.  I am trying to write an embedded python program in C++ that
will go out and execute python language in a script.

I am using Visual C++ .NET, and I do have Multithreaded DLL(/MD)
turned on for the Runtime Library, I have the Python 2.2 installed and
their include and libs directories are set.  Also, I have Visual C++
.NET set to release version, mainly because I cannot find
python22_d.dll anywhere.

This is the error that I get when I successfully compile this program
and try to run it at a dos prompt...

The instruction at "0x77f85c41" referenced memory at "0x00000010". 
The memory could not be "written".

This is the source code that I am trying to test...

#include "python.h"
#include <stdio.h>

int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
	char *filename = "test.py";
	
	FILE *OurFile = fopen(filename, "r+");

	Py_Initialize();

	PyRun_SimpleFile(OurFile, "test.py");

	Py_Finalize();

	return 0;
}

Like I said earlier, the program compiles without any hitches.  Any
help on this is appreciated very much!



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Wed Sep 24 13:17:09 2003
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:17:09 +0100
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
In-Reply-To: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309241813370.12934-100000@urchin.earth.li>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Andrew Chalk wrote:

> In a Python script running under CGI, can I programatically redirect the
> program to another page. Assume that I have a static HTML page that I
> want displayed (e.g. index.htm). Other than 'print ...' is there any way
> to redirect to this URL (for example, like Response.Redirect() in ASP)?

you have two options:

- write a Location header; the web server will notice it and spit out the
file you specify

- write Status and Location headers, giving status 302 (or 303); the web
server will notice the Status header and give the client the appropriate
status code;  the client will then follow the redirect you give it in the
Location header

see:

http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/cgi/out.html
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html

tom

-- 
One chants out between two worlds Fire - Walk With Me.




From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Tue Sep 30 13:54:45 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 10:54:45 -0700
Subject: Python Windows Source?
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309300954.29b155d@posting.google.com>

This seems like a simple question but I keep looking and can't seem to
find it anywhere. Do I have to check it out directly from CVS. Is
there anywhere I can download the source already compiled. All I
really want is to be able to compile PIL.

                              Thanks Joey



From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Sep  9 09:16:20 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guetttler)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 15:16:20 +0200
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
References: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.09.13.16.06.415215@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:45:54 +0200 schrieb Axel Straschil:

> Hello!
> 
> Im fouling around with xml/xslt and zope. 
> Now, im seraching for a simple codesample or link
> for a simple xslt-tranformation in python and libxml
> or 4Suite.
> I've test.xml, test.xsl or two vars with the code
> and wan't to transform it. 
> Google just helped me for C ...

4suite contains examples and tests. You could see how they work.

BTW, I used to waste a lot of time with xslt. 
I think you are most of the time quicker with SAX for
parsing XML and "print" to create XML.

 thomas




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 30 05:24:37 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:24:37 +0200
Subject: [PMW 1.2] Dialog controls vanish upon editing
References: <3f794786@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <blbi7l$j17$06$1@news.t-online.com>

F. GEIGER wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I use PMW 1.2 on Python 2.3.0 on Win2k.
> 
> I've created a dialog that looks like so:
> 
>                      +----------------------+
>                 Name |                      |
>                      +----------------------+
>                      +----------------------+
>    Caption text head |                      |
>                      +----------------------+
>                      +----------------------+
>    # Digits w/o sign |                      |
>                      +----------------------+
>                      +----------------------+
>    Caption text tail |                      |
>                      +----------------------+
>                      +--+
>          Is editable |  |
>                      +--+
>                      +--------------------+-+
>       Parameter name |                    |V| Drop-down.
>                      +--------------------+-+
> 
> 
> I pull down the drop-down control, select an item, the drop-down closes
> and - vanishes. All controls have vanished. After half a second or so the
> first one reappears, but w/o its label 'Name'.
> 
> The other ones reapper if I click onto the pane where they are supposed to
> be. They also reapper if I change to an other app and then come back
> again. I guess this is because a window update is issued by the OS.
> 
> What do I miss?

I would guess that 

>    def _validateNameId_(self, text):
>       if Proxy.DataProxy().parameterExists(text):
>          return -1
>       return 1

is either awfully slow and/or throws an exception.

You could easily verify this assumption with

(a)
def _validateNameId_(self, text):
    return 1

and
(b)
def _validateNameId_(self, text):
    try:
        if Proxy.DataProxy().parameterExists(text):
            return -1
        return 1
    except: # generally a bad idea
        print >> sys.stderr, "something went wrong"
        return 1


Peter



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 19:09:37 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 00:09:37 +0100
Subject: Package importing problem
References: <mailman.1062920290.26424.python-list@python.org> <bjeqv8$39r$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87smn8i4b2.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> Tongu? Yumruk wrote:
[...]
> > in all the __init__.py files I have the __all__=["blah","blah"]
> > statement. When I try it as:
> > 
> > from skib import PluginManager
> > PluginManager.init_plugins()
> > 
> > It works. But when I try it like that:
> > 
> > import skib
> > skib.PluginManager.init_plugins()
> > 
> > It raises AttributeError and complains that there is nothing called
> > PluginManager. Subpackages also behave like that. The __init__.py files
> > only contain the __all__ directive. No actual code are in them. Am I
> > missing a point?
[...]
> I think that is because skib/PluginManager.py was never imported. Putting
> 
> import PluginManager 
> 
> into skib/__init__.py should do (just a guess, though). 

Right (though I should warn I didn't actually read your directory
structure, Tongu).  An __init__.py is required for packages, and in
order to import stuff from the package, you have to import that stuff
into __init__.

__all__ is just for

from skib import *


which you almost certainly don't (or shouldn't) want anyway.


John



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 14:30:45 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:30:45 +0200
Subject: file object: seek and close?
References: <mailman.1063901845.25188.python-list@python.org> <bkcpdn$f1k$00$1@news.t-online.com> <3F69EE44.5020100@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <bkctm3$34s$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I did some tests and it seems that it was the line that I defined list
> as a pdbdict0 object was causing the problem.
> 
> If I remove the line:
> 
> list = pdbdict0()
> 

This is really strange. I still cannot reproduce the error.

> 
> class pdbdict0(dict):
>     def __init__(self):
>         super(dict, self).__init__()
>         self['header'] = ''
>         self['compnd'] = []
> 

Wouldn't that be:

class pdbdict0(dict):
    def __init__(self):
        super(pdbdict0, self).__init__(self)
        self['header'] = ''
        self['compnd'] = []

or better:

def bdbdict0():
    return {"header": "", "compnd": []}

While the pdbdict0 implementation seems broken, I have no clue what causes
the file to be closed.

Totally unrelated: Don't use list and type as variable names. They are
already used as built-in classes.

Peter



From mack at incise.org  Mon Sep  1 20:30:20 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 19:30:20 -0500
Subject: just a beep
In-Reply-To: <000701c370e7$892ed550$5401a8c0@borg.fielden.com.au>
References: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <000701c370e7$892ed550$5401a8c0@borg.fielden.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030902003020.GD16821@incise.org>

On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 10:17:02AM +1000, DG wrote:
> print chr(7)
> 
> :)

print "\a" # too

:)

-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
Don't take life too seriously -- you'll never get out of it alive.




From markus_wankus at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  4 16:16:43 2003
From: markus_wankus at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:16:43 -0400
Subject: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <bj85ia$red$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <opruzrx5k08cxiwf@news.packetworks.net>

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:59:18 +0200, GerritM <gmuller at worldonline.nl> wrote:

> "Patrick Useldinger" <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> schreef in bericht
> news:opruzmelopdd8opo at news.vo.lu...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and 
>> am
>> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across
>> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would 
>> like
>> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the 
>> last
>> few years, about Python or IT in general.
>>


I found Neil Stephenson's Crytonomicon to be VERY entertaining.  Didn't 
learn much new about computers or crypto, but quite a yarn nonetheless.  
There's enough in there to say it has some "IT" involved...

--
Markus



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Sep 26 19:46:08 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:46:08 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>
 <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <EG0db.175320$R32.5577927@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <uwubv9kqn.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>
>> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>> 
>>> David Abrahams wrote:
>>>    ...
>>>> Also, the idea of denying tuples the ability to reverse iterate seems
>>>> arbitrary and capricious.
>>>
>>> Sure, but so is denying them, e.g., non-mutating methods such as
>>> .index() and .count().
>> 
>> Not IMO. Immutability is a very useful trait.
>
> Sure, very useful indeed -- and why does YO suggest that add such
> NON-mutating methods would damage immutability in the LEAST...?

Sorry, I misread your reply.  I didn't know those were missing.

>>> At least we're _consistently_ arbitrary and capricious!-)
>> 
>> Not in this case.
>
> Some amplification would be welcome, because the above comment
> on immutability's usefulness is totally obscure to me in context.

My mistake; you were right as usual.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From petejereb at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 20:07:47 2003
From: petejereb at yahoo.com (Pete Jereb)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 17:07:47 -0700
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
Message-ID: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com>

Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32

>>> s = 'chg bonn_fee'
>>> print s
chg bonn_fee
>>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
bonn_fee

>>> s = 'chg conn_fee'
>>> print s
chg conn_fee
>>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
onn_fee


Does this make any sense at all?  where did the lead c in conn_fee go?

Note that if I just strip 'chg' and not the one whitespace character
next to it I get the expected result:

>>> print s.lstrip('chg')
 conn

but extending the right quote by one space not only strips the
whitespace but the c:

>>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
onn


Not really sure what's causing this, but it's making me change the
text parser  I'm 600 lines into.



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Date: 1 Sep 2003 06:19:50 -0000
Subject: confirm unsubscribe from zsh-users@sunsite.dk
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From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep  3 13:57:51 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:57:51 -0400
Subject: Trouble with script fetching site
References: <3Zadnamljsa-dMiiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net> <3F55ECD2.48F0BB0B@engcorp.com> <873cfe6je4.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F562B9F.E9C5F052@engcorp.com>

"John J. Lee" wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> > Stephen Boulet wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm trying to parse a url to set my hardware & system clock (linux).
> >
> > I can't help with the problem at hand, but I also don't see the
> > reason to do it.  Why not just access an NTP server and grab the
> > time the "proper" way?  Using a web page is a roundabout way of
> > doing it.
> 
> Right.
> 
> > There's a nice setclock.py script which Google can
> > point you to which does the job much more easily.
> 
> On my system, the ntpdate command works nicely.  I run it my PPP
> scripts.

And once one knows it exists, one should probably prefer that 
method.  As I now do.  <grin>

-Peter



From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Fri Sep 12 23:03:47 2003
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:03:47 -0700
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2003-08-16 through 2003-08-31
Message-ID: <3F628913.1000704@ocf.berkeley.edu>

python-dev Summary for 2003-08-16 through 2003-08-31
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from 
August 16, 2003 through August 31, 2003.  It is intended to inform the 
wider Python community of on-going developments on the list.  To comment 
on anything mentioned here, just post to python-list at python.org or 
`comp.lang.python`_ with a subject line mentioning what you are 
discussing. All python-dev members are interested in seeing ideas 
discussed by the community, so don't hesitate to take a stance on 
something.  And if all of this really interests you then get involved 
and join `python-dev`_!

This is the twenty-fourth summary written by Brett Cannon (a year's 
worth of summaries by yours truly now under his belt; does this mean I 
am certifiably insane?).

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which 
can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar 
punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably 
regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, 
although I suggest learning reST; its simple and is accepted for `PEP 
markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML output.  Also, because of the 
wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I cannot guarantee you 
will be able to run the text version of this summary through Docutils_ 
as-is unless it is from the original text file.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found 
at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking 
up any documentation on something mentioned here.  Python PEPs (Python 
Enhancement Proposals) are located at http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To 
view files in the Python CVS online, go to 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ .  Reported bugs 
and suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ project page.

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
.. _python-dev mailing list: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html

.. contents::

.. _last summary: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-08-01_2003-08-15.html


=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
This is the twenty-fourth summary written by me.  This is significant 
because this means I have written enough summaries to cover a year's 
worth of email traffic on python-dev (had I not taken a summary off back 
in October this milestone would have been hit for the first half of 
August which represented a physical year since I started doing the 
summaries).  It has truly been worth the experience.

But how much of an experience has it been?  Well, for a long time now I 
have been planning on writing some code to calculate how much email I 
have read, who wrote most of that email, and what threads made up the 
most.  With my move to San Luis Obispo finished I finally had a chance 
to write said code in an imperfect manner (imperfect because of things 
like names which are a pain because some people have their name set 
differently at different computers; "Barry Warsaw" compared to "Barry A. 
Warsaw"; threads are worse thanks to the changing of subject titles in 
the middle of a thread) so as to give me some approximate numbers.

I have read 9469 emails that have passed through the python-dev mailing 
list.  The top six emailers (out of approx. 433 unique emailers) have been:

* Brett Cannon (277 emails when you deal with me just using my last 
initial; 2.9% of all emails)
* Barry Warsaw (305 emails when you also count his middle initial; 3.2%)
* Skip Montanaro (481 emails; 5.1%)
* Martin v. L?wis (627 emails, when calculated looking for all names 
that had "Martin" and "wis" in them; 6.6%)
* Tim Peters (694 emails; 7.3%)
* Guido van Rossum (a whopping 1407 emails; 14.8%)

The average person posted 21.9 emails over the emails I covered.  But 
only about 24 people had more than a single percentage (more than 94 
emails) worth of emails accredited to them.  That means that about 5.5% 
of the unique posters on python-dev accounted for 66.8% of all email 
(and I have gotten to know a good amount of those 24).

As for threads (of which there were approx. 1252 unique threads, and I 
mean approximately), the top five are:

* "type categories" (115 emails; 1.2% of all emails)
* "PEP239 (Rational Numbers) Reference Implementation and new issues" 
(123 emails; 1.3%)
* "PEP-317" (125 emails: 1.3%)
* "python/dist/src/Python import.c,2.210,2.211" (146 emails; 1.5%)
* "Extended Function syntax" (263 emails; 2.8%)

What does this tell you and me?  First, I have an addiction to Python. 
Second, PEPs really do get discussed.  And third, Python development is 
alive and well.


OK, enough statistics.  As for this summary, it turned out rather light 
thanks to a couple of things.  One is the shutdown of mail delivery by 
mail.python.org during the SoBig virus' peak.  This not only cut back on 
the number of emails, but also led to me deleting *a lot* of bogus email 
on my other emails accounts.  My blanket deleting may have caught 
legitimate emails so it is possible I accidently deleted some python-dev 
stuff, although if I did it was minimal.  Another contributing factor to 
the light summary is that a lot of regulars on python-dev were on 
vacation.  This looks like it will happen again for the first half of 
September so expect the next summary to be light as well.


=========
Summaries
=========
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Python using Parrot; new code interpreter or strange evolutionary 
parternship?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pirate_ has now reached version 0.01 alpha.  It lacks classes and 
imports but can run a decent amount of Python code.  At least there is 
now a proof-of-concept that Python running on top of the Parrot_ VM is 
possible.

.. _Pirate: http://pirate.tangentcode.com/
.. _Parrot: http://www.parrotcode.org/

Contributing threads:
   - `pirate 0.01 alpha! 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037684.html>`__


------------------------
Python 2.3.1 on its way?
------------------------
Raymond Hettinger suggesting pushing for a quick release of Python 2.3.1 
so that the 2.3 branch could be established as a stable version. 
Several bugs and performance enhancements have been committed to the 2.3 
maintenance branch.  Anthony Baxter stepped forward as release czar with 
Raymond Hettinger saying he would help and Barry Warsaw volunteering his 
wisdom as a battle-hardened release czar.

This discussion also brought up the question of whether a .chm help file 
for the Windows distribution would be worth using instead of including 
the HTML distribution of the documentation as it stands now.  It was 
agreed that it was a good thing to have since it allowed for better 
searching.  Tim Peters also discovered the install went faster since it 
would not have to copy a ton of individual HTML files.

Python 2.3.1 has a "verbal" release date of the third week of September; 
there has not been a PEP to set the release schedule officially.

Help would be appreciated in dealing with bug and patch reports on 
SourceForge.  Even if all you do is add a comment saying "this patch 
looks fine" or "I can reproduce this bug" it can be a great help.

Contributing threads:
   - `Py2.3.1 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037687.html>`__
   - `HTMLHelp for Py2.3.1 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037866.html>`__
   - `Fixing Patches and Bugs for Py2.3.1 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037840.html>`__


----------------------------------------
Making looping generators more efficient
----------------------------------------
Would you like to see deeply nested generators be more efficient in 
returning their values?  Clark Evans would and made such a request.  He 
essentially wanted to have nested generator calls propogate their values 
to the first non-generator call directly and thus bypass all of the 
generator maintenance code.  There was no direct reaction to this.

Shane Holloway followed with the idea of having special syntax for when 
you yield each value of an iterator.  The idea, once again, would be to 
speed this common case in the interpreter by skipping some bookkeeping 
overhead.  A few syntax versions were offered, but the idea was all the 
same: special-case ``for item in iterable: yield item`` to something 
like ``yield *iterable``.

Contributing threads:
   - `cooperative generators 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037708.html>`__
   - `Graph exploration with generators 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037738.html>`__


--------------------------------------------------
Use of the logging package in the standard library
--------------------------------------------------
Want to help out the development of Python?  Know how to use the logging 
package?  Then python-dev wants you!  There are several modules in the 
stdlib that have home-grown logging code that could (and probably 
should) be using the logging package instead to simplify life.  Read the 
email that started the contributing thread and see if you can't help out 
by converting the module over to using the logging package today!

Contributing threads:
   - `Unification of logging in Python's Standard Library 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037743.html>`__


-----------------------
Some waxings on PEP 310
-----------------------
PEP 310 proposes the 'with' syntax that came up a while back that 
sparked an immense discussion on python-dev.  The idea was to have a 
more fool-proof way of having an enter and exit method be called before 
executing some specified code.  The common example was acquiring a lock, 
executing some code, and then releasing the lock all without having to 
deal with an explicit try/finally statement.  Samuele Pedroni tried to 
clarify how it should work exactly by requiring __exit__ instead of 
making it optional (read the PEP to understand what this means).

Contributing threads:
   - `PEP 310(with-syntax): close synonym of __exit__ 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037795.html>`__


------------------------------------------------
Proposed PEP for a 'close' method for generators
------------------------------------------------
Samuele Pedroni has written a pre-PEP on defining a way to have 
generators grow a way to have a 'close' method that is called when their 
execution is finished so as to handle resources correctly.  This is in 
response to not being able to contain yield statements within 
try/finally blocks.

Contributing threads:
   - `pre-PEP: Resource-Release Support for Generators 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-August/037803.html>`__


-----------------
email-sig created
-----------------
Barry Warsaw has created the `email-sig`_ to steer development of 
version 3 of the email package in hopes of having it done for Python 2.4 .

.. _email-sig: http://www.python.org/sigs/email-sig/

Contributing threads:
   - `New SIG: email-sig <New SIG: email-sig>`__





From florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net  Fri Sep 26 07:33:42 2003
From: florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net (Florian Schulze)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:33:42 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1064501497.18527.python-list@python.org> <he30euo4.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1064505774.2431.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oprv3uegxcttxc4i@news.t-online.de>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:59:40 -0600, Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> 
wrote:

> On Thursday 25 September 2003 09:48 am, Thomas Heller wrote:
>> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:
>> > I've been working on a simplistic implementation of such a run-time
>> > for my own projects.
> [snip]
>> >  445,952 python23.dll
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>> Is the python23.dll compressed,or did you leave features out?
>
> I started to leave out stuff like imageop, audioop, etc - stuff I never 
> use,
> but I believe in the end I decided not to bother since it wouldn't 
> amount to
> a big difference, so IIRC that's a normal python23.dll (with "minimize 
> size"
> compiler optimizations turned on) + select + _socket + _sre + pyexpat 
> + zlib
> + _winreg + aes then run through UPX.
>
> -Dave
>

I got several reports that UPXed dlls are bad, but I still need some hard 
data. I can only say that I had a bug report which sayed that a function 
didn't work correctly in a compressed dll. Another thing I heard is, that 
windows can't share compressed dlls, so they are loaded for each process 
which uses the dll. If anyone knows more details I would be very grateful.

Regards,
Florian Schulze



From lomax at pumpichank.com  Wed Sep 17 09:18:26 2003
From: lomax at pumpichank.com (Frnak "Sealmbcrd Eggs" Lomax)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:18:26 -0400
Subject: Fsrit Propttoye: SCLABMRE
Message-ID: <16232.24354.366003.171152@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


I hvae jsut fhiseind rniedag a Shdlaost atrlcie from Mnoday, Sbepemetr
15th, aobut an ingtriniug sdtuy from Cgbdirmae Uinevtrsiy, dciinesrbg
how wodrs with thier itienrors selmrbacd can siltl be rdbaleae.
Bcaeuse of the tioeznme that I lvie in, an initettrment dfceet in my
clbae medom, and the lneiignrg atfer-ecfefts of my lsat "mohsroum
salad exntarvzagaa", I am aaylws two days bhneid on the Web.

So suentnd was I at the icoinatpimls of this study, taht I
cunlqtneesoy decedid to doetve my etrnie lfie and gtelray aeamssd
fnrtoue on cunitodcng ftrhuer rasreech and dnpeeelmvot into tihs
lifnsaevig tghlocnoey.  As a cross-eeyd dxsiyelc, I konw that teshe
cilmas of svotailan are niehetr hlroyepbe nor bmobaistc
over-daaomtiazitrn.

Pnseetred hree for your rveiew, aaovpprl and disiscsuon, is our
poyptotre sytsem, caelld SLABCRME for SeCren Rslmnebeig Aacrihc
Mnoaaluptiin of BetaoLd Ecuitolon.  I have scnie bugen a meosdt
sutartp based in Aceicdnt Maarnlyd, and we will soon be reeianlsg an
Olutook puglin, anolg with a sftorwae devmoeelpnt kit, and oethr
digintoasc tloos.  Smoe of our tlgeocnhoy wlil nallaruty be open
sruoce, but I do ietnnd and ecpext to frutehr etnxed my hoougmuns
wtaleh by sinlelg sftorawe lcseiens and srhink wrapped ratiel pocrudt.
Psaele cactnot us for more iomrfaiontn.

I'm aslo in enpommelyt duicnssioss wtih the Tmboit; I ecepxt that he
can bosot the pmecarrofne of our pooyptrte's itmpeanetolmin
salreolefvd, at wcihh piont we will be pthincig emdbeded ssmeyts to
the mfntacuuearrs of ruoters, eiltncreoc trprwyeiets, psnreoal dtaiigl
astsntsais, eorctinlec cepmutor coltlerond tersotas, maet prbeos, RFC
1149 digtail cemara pheons, and nxet gniaoetern wopehoe csionuhs.

hinpog-to-be-deotersyd-by-moroscift-ly y'rs,
-fnark

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From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Wed Sep 10 12:51:06 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 16:51:06 GMT
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bja8ls$k1j$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-542F88.08165705092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bji5h7$bqo$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-921F58.15265908092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bjkdoa$3ea$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hawkfish-7B21B7.09501410092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

In article <bjkdoa$3ea$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
 Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:

> On Monday 08 September 2003 22:28, Richard Wesley wrote:
> 
> > In article <bji5h7$bqo$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
> >  Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> 
> > I doubt it - it is generated by mysqldump.  And there is no problem
> > from the command line.
> > 
> 
> I use exactly the same approach to set up my unit tests, but I have a
> different way to get the mysqldump data into the database:
> 
> os.system('mysql database_name < dumpfile')

Sadly, this did not work, nor did garbage collection (gc.collect()).

For some reason, mysql is holding onto a whole lot of connections from 
my script until the script terminates.

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"The professor is teaching me about 'tea'.  It's very complicated."
        - Leela in "Dr. Who: The Talons of Weng-Chiang"



From avera at coes.org.pe  Tue Sep  2 13:06:39 2003
From: avera at coes.org.pe (Alberto Vera)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:06:39 -0500
Subject: using PrimalCode
Message-ID: <000a01c37174$931b22c0$1f03a8c0@pc22>

Hello:

Does anybody know How I Can use Python in Primal Software?

Regards
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From beliavsky at aol.com  Mon Sep 15 17:31:06 2003
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 14:31:06 -0700
Subject: compound conditional statements
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0309151331.76f1d658@posting.google.com>

If I have code 

if (aa or bb): print "true", 

does Python evaluate aa and bb in any particular order? Can I assume that if 
aa is true, bb will not be evaluated?



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 22:01:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:01:59 -0400
Subject: Connect to VBA Objects?
References: <vmv8d1hdf55ia0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F6FA997.A45FA94A@engcorp.com>

Kenneth Hutson wrote:
> 
> I wonder if Python can connect to the object models exposed by Excel or
> Word.

Yes it can, using the win32all extensions by Mark Hammond.  Check the
archives for various examples, or consider buying the book on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565926218/qid=1064282478/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8344189-2413728?v=glance&s=books

-Peter



From amk at amk.ca  Mon Sep  8 08:48:43 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 07:48:43 -0500
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mk6dnVAQUbZrTceiXTWJkg@comcast.com> <slrnbln3ot.1oj.!spamispeople!punga@aztlan.great-atuin.net>
Message-ID: <cZ-dnRyCC-Q258GiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:03:41 +0000, 
	Eduardo Alvarez <!spamispeople!punga at great-atuin.net> wrote:
> mmmm...I only seem to see an image of the proposal.  is it possible to
> see an actual HTML version of it?  The easiest test in my opinion would
> be to run it by lynx, and see how readable it is then...

Writing an HTML version would normally only be done once the graphical 
design has been chosen.  It's a lot of work to get the CSS right across all
browsers, so an HTML version might only replace "this font is too small"
complaints with "this displays strangely in my browser" messages.  It's not
worth doing all that required tweaking for what's just a prototype.

Don't worry about Lynx compatibility; there are at least two people who are
primarily Lynx users (Aahz and me).  I assure you that any final design will
be Lynx-unusable over my dead body.

--amk



From usenet2003 at krap.dk  Wed Sep 24 12:24:59 2003
From: usenet2003 at krap.dk (Svenne Krap)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:24:59 +0200
Subject: Barcode generator for Python?
In-Reply-To: <bkqevq$3rd$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.1064348557.16937.python-list@python.org> <bkqevq$3rd$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <wzjcb.91804$Kb2.3771888@news010.worldonline.dk>

Also Reportlab (http://www.reportlab.com) has a great barcode extension 
(no, I did not write it, just use it :)

/Svenne

Achim Domma wrote:
> Hi Jen,
> 
> I wrote a wrapper around the GNU Barcode library, but nobody really used it.
> You can get it from here:
> 
> http://www.procoders.net/download.php?fname=PyBarcode.zip
> 
> It should be for python 2.2. Look at the example to see if it suits your
> needs. If yes, I could build a new version for python 2.3.
> 
> regards,
> Achim
> 
> 




From maoy at cis.upenn.edu  Fri Sep 19 19:12:43 2003
From: maoy at cis.upenn.edu (Yun Mao)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:12:43 -0400
Subject: os.environ and os.path.chdir
Message-ID: <bkg2l2$aj3s$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

Hi,
   How to make changes to os.environ and os.path.chdir still effective after
I run the script? Currently, the changes are only good within my script. I
would like the shell who called python myprog.py also gets the change..
Thank you!

Yun





From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Sep 17 02:18:05 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:18:05 +0200
Subject: list of lists
In-Reply-To: <bk7sg9$pif$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de> <bk4k46$ort$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bk6gn4$57m$1@news.uni-kl.de> <bk7hb7$pt6pp$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <bk7sg9$pif$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f67fc97$0$97208$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Nice explanation. I take the occasion to warn newbies that the sort() method 
> is a showstopper in this scheme:
> 
> getArray().sort()[3].formatter() #BAD CODE, DON'T USE
>              ^
>              |
>              + -- sort() returns None
> 
> By the way, is there any Python programmer who has not made this error at
> least once?


Also it is a slower approach if you want to look up more than one item 
in the list. In that case it is better to bind the sorted result of 
getArray to a variable.

arr = getArray()
arr.sort()
arr[3].formatter()
arr[4].formatter()
arr[5].formatter()


So I find that I rarely use the short form of the expression.

regards Max M




From john at rygannon.com  Tue Sep  9 07:03:43 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:03:43 GMT
Subject: What does the keyword 'global' really mean
Message-ID: <3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi
I have been looking through some Python code and I came across the keyword
'global'. I have looked through the docs and two or three Python programming
books for a full explanation of what 'global' really means. Would I be
correct in assuming that any variable prefixed with the keyword global would
allow that variable to be accessible across translation units, in other
words global is equivalent to the 'C' keyword 'extern' ?

Also, does Python have the equivalent of the 'C' keyword 'static'?

-- 
Best Regards
John



From mal at lemburg.com  Tue Sep 23 08:29:48 2003
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:29:48 +0200
Subject: DB2 driver for windows
In-Reply-To: <3F703B9C.3000701@lemburg.com>
References: <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net>	<slrnbmugcf.ppc.ramen@lackingtalent.com>	<3f6f6c4c$0$1115$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net> <3F703B9C.3000701@lemburg.com>
Message-ID: <3F703CBC.5010000@lemburg.com>

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Philip wrote:
> 
>> Dave Benjamin wrote:
>>
>>> In article <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894 at feed0.news.be.easynet.net>, Philip
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i'am looking for a db2 driver for windows
>>>> the DB2 servers runs on as400 if that makes any difference.
>>>
>>> I don't know if you're looking for a native driver, but if you can work
>>> with ODBC, I was able to get DB2's ODBC driver (the one that comes with
>>> the DB2 client installation) to talk to the mx.ODBC module.
>>>
>>> http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html
>>>
>>
>> Currently i'am using jython for database administration (because 
>> didn't find
>> an native driver)
>>
>> I like the java jdbc driver because you don't need to install anything
>> especialy interesting when sharing code)
>>
>> But the downside is that you have the java tiresome api. the obvious 
>> reason
>> way i have choicen python/jython.
>>
>> Well, prefer a native one but if it's easy to install the odbc driver
>> that would be fine too.
> 
> 
> FYI, mxODBC works fine using the IBM DB2/400 driver for Linux:
> 
> http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/linux/odbc/

Oops, you were looking for a Windows driver: those work too
with mxODBC, but I can't give you a URL.

Known issues with the driver:

* Make sure that you switch off connection pooling in the MS ODBC
   manager if your are using multiple connections to the database
   in a single app.

* The DB2 ODBC Driver for NT has an optimization option called
   early cursor close  (or similar). This has to be switched off.
   Otherwise, you'll get lots of SQLSTATE 08001 or 080003 errors
   during connects and parallel execution of commands becomes
   impossible.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Software directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 23 2003)
 >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ...         http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! ::::





From thanks200 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 30 21:55:57 2003
From: thanks200 at hotmail.com (Tom Hanks)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 18:55:57 -0700
Subject: printing to files in python
References: <mailman.1064946050.8907.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6152d0a0.0309301755.a3e847e@posting.google.com>

"Matthew Wilson" <mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064946050.8907.python-list at python.org>...
> >>> str = "d1: %s, probability: %0.2f" % (d1, prob)
> >>> outfile = open("out.txt", "w")
> >>> outfile.write(str)
> 
> I get errors.  What am I missing?

What are you missing? You are missing including your actual errors 
in this question.

The only error I get when running your code (Python 2.3, Windows)
is "d1" and "prob" aren't defined. If I fix that then "out.txt" is 
written as expected.

TTFN,
Tom.



From zephyr01 at alltel.net  Thu Sep  4 15:43:30 2003
From: zephyr01 at alltel.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:43:30 -0400
Subject: Strange problem with xml.dom.minidom Text object (Python 2.3)
Message-ID: <RmM5b.383$h5.114@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>

[Not sure if this message made it, so I'm resending it... apologies if it 
appears multiple times.]


Howdy y'all,

The following works in Python 2.2.2:

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from xml.dom.minidom import Text
 >>> t = Text("foo")
 >>> t
<DOM Text node "foo">

So far, so good.  We have production code that uses the Text class by 
initializing it with a string, and it works well.  However:

(C:\work\uq\ticket_parse) $ \Python23\python.exe
Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from xml.dom.minidom import Text
 >>> t = Text("foo")
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: this constructor takes no arguments

So I thought, maybe this was disallowed for some reason.  What happens if we 
create the object without arguments?  It works, but when doing a __repr__, the 
object lacks the .data attribute, which is odd:

 >>> t = Text()
 >>> t
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 956, in __repr__
     data = self.data
AttributeError: Text instance has no attribute 'data'

Anybody knows what's going on here?  I didn't see this as a bug in the 
BugTracker.  Am I doing something wrong?





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Mon Sep 29 14:36:20 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:36:20 -0700
Subject: Python mascot? How about a Pythoneer?
Message-ID: <1064860580.3f787ba4b7295@mcherm.com>

> I've been thinking that a good Python mascot might help in raising
> public awareness of Python.
> 
> The problem with a snake as a mascot is that it is not anthropomorphic
> enough.  An effective mascot has to have something approximating two
> arms, two legs, and a head, so that he can be put into various
> interesting situations and adventures.  (At the very least, he has to
> be able to work a keyboard and a mouse!)  Good examples can be found
> in some of the imaginative things that have been done with Linux's
> Tux.
> 
> So a snake is out.  

I'm not an artist, but I still want to question your "requirements"
above. You declare "An effective mascot has to have something
approximating two arms, two legs, and a head". I certainly see why
an effective mascott needs a _face_ (to express emotion, and to take
advantage of the hardwired human facial-feature processor). But I
really don't understand the need for two legs, and with some creative
stretch, I'm unsure about the hands.

I *am* concerned that any mascot *other* than a snake would prove
confusing in the marketplace. For instance, I'd say that most everyone
in the software profession recognizes the steaming cup of coffee icon
for java (http://java.sun.com/images/javalogo_box.gif). Many fewer
recognize duke (http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/rmi/images/duke.gif).
Why? I think it's because there's nothing tying it back to the 
technology other than explicit advertising that Sun does.

Now, I realize that our marketing budget dwarfs Sun's <wink/>, but
the way I figure it, ANY time that people see a snake logo in 
connection with programming, they'll think of the language Python.
We've already captured that mindshare. 

So I say, exploit it! The "Odi" logo 
(http://www.python.org/wiki/img/Odi.jpg) shows that a snake can be
"cute" (but lose the pixelation yeuch!), seems to me that all that's
needed is a little creativity... perhaps he (she?) types and mouses
with his (her?) tail. Sure, it'd be a bit odd, but it would be
distinctive, and most importantly, everyone would immediately know
that it represented Python.

-- Michael Chermside





From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Sun Sep 28 01:02:52 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:02:52 +1200
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1303744A30@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AF7F@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' 
> conversation. I'm looking for an IDE that has the ability to 
> view 2 (or more) methods/functions within the same module 
> simultaneously.

PythonWin and jEdit can both do this.

=Tony Meyer





From ladasky at my-deja.com  Sat Sep  6 23:22:19 2003
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 20:22:19 -0700
Subject: Anyone ever overridden a builtin by accident?
Message-ID: <c09b237b.0309061922.10d74b39@posting.google.com>

Hi there,

Just wanted to share a frustrating programming bug that, when I
figured it out, made me gasp, and then laugh.

In one of my programs I wrote...

c = max(a,b)

...and I was getting the most annoying, frustrating error message: 
"type 'int' is not callable."

What the heck?  I wasn't calling an integer, I was calling the
__builtin__ function, max()!

I dropped out of my regular editor (SciTE), opened IDLE, and tried
typing in bits of my code, including the call to max().  Everything
seemed to work fine.

Then, I finally spotted the problem.  At the beginning of my program I
had defined a variable called "max"!  I had overridden the __builtin__
function by mistake.

Is there ever a good reason to override something in __builtin__? 
It's powerful, but potentially quite confusing.  Can the interpreter
be instructed to give a warning message when you do it?

Yes indeed, *everything* in Python is an object.  Let the newbie
beware!

--
John J. Ladasky Jr., Ph.D.
Department of Biology
Johns Hopkins University
Baltimore MD 21218
USA
Earth



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 11:41:09 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:41:09 +0100
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com>
		 <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com>
		 <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Key phrase: "Metaobject protocols are interfaces to the language
> that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> behavior and implementation...".  Near as I can tell, part of the
> whole character of Python is that a user *cannot* do either of
> those things.

Hmm, does this rephrasing hold any truth?

"Metaclasses are interfaces to the python language
that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
behavior and implementation...". 

Isn't modifying standard behaviour the whole purpose of metaclasses?

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From blunck at gst.com  Tue Sep  9 23:56:14 2003
From: blunck at gst.com (Christopher Blunck)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 23:56:14 -0400
Subject: Anyone ever overridden a builtin by accident?
References: <c09b237b.0309061922.10d74b39@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.10.03.56.11.37765@gst.com>

Argh.  Hate it when I do this....


On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 20:22:19 -0700, John Ladasky wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> Just wanted to share a frustrating programming bug that, when I
> figured it out, made me gasp, and then laugh.
> 
> In one of my programs I wrote...
> 
> c = max(a,b)
> 
> ...and I was getting the most annoying, frustrating error message: 
> "type 'int' is not callable."
> 
> What the heck?  I wasn't calling an integer, I was calling the
> __builtin__ function, max()!
> 
> I dropped out of my regular editor (SciTE), opened IDLE, and tried
> typing in bits of my code, including the call to max().  Everything
> seemed to work fine.
> 
> Then, I finally spotted the problem.  At the beginning of my program I
> had defined a variable called "max"!  I had overridden the __builtin__
> function by mistake.
> 
> Is there ever a good reason to override something in __builtin__? 
> It's powerful, but potentially quite confusing.  Can the interpreter
> be instructed to give a warning message when you do it?
> 
> Yes indeed, *everything* in Python is an object.  Let the newbie
> beware!
> 
> --
> John J. Ladasky Jr., Ph.D.
> Department of Biology
> Johns Hopkins University
> Baltimore MD 21218
> USA
> Earth




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Sep 23 07:16:20 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:16:20 +0200
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
In-Reply-To: <_9Vbb.105320$hE5.3711223@news1.tin.it>
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu> <cthvmvk3uif5qt1hkftmp2hbdia74fjq3d@4ax.com> <bkp40c$j0o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <_9Vbb.105320$hE5.3711223@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <20030923111620.GA2401@nl.linux.org>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> >> Also, one extra feature is that the loop can be infinite (which range
> >> and xrange cannot achieve)...
> >>
> >>   for i in int [0:] :
> 
> No way, Jose -- now THAT would break things (in admittedly rare
> cases -- a method expecting a list and NOT providing an upper bound
> in the slicing).  I'd vote for this to be like int[0:sys.maxint+1]
> (i.e., last item returned is sys.maxint).

This one breaks the int/long unification. In an ideal unification
of ints and longs, sys.maxint would not exist any more, and the
upper bound would be seemingly random.

Gerrit.

-- 
131. If a man bring a charge against one's wife, but she is not
surprised with another man, she must take an oath and then may return to
her house.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Sep 29 15:13:53 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:13:53 -0600
Subject: Python mascot? How about a Pythoneer?
In-Reply-To: <1064860580.3f787ba4b7295@mcherm.com>
References: <1064860580.3f787ba4b7295@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <200309291313.53086.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Monday 29 September 2003 12:36 pm, Michael Chermside wrote:
> > I've been thinking that a good Python mascot might help in raising
> > public awareness of Python.
> >
> > The problem with a snake as a mascot is that it is not anthropomorphic
> > enough.  An effective mascot has to have something approximating two
> > arms, two legs, and a head, so that he can be put into various
> > interesting situations and adventures.  (At the very least, he has to
> > be able to work a keyboard and a mouse!)  Good examples can be found
> > in some of the imaginative things that have been done with Linux's
> > Tux.
> >
> > So a snake is out.
>
> I'm not an artist, but I still want to question your "requirements"
> above. You declare "An effective mascot has to have something
> approximating two arms, two legs, and a head". I certainly see why
> an effective mascott needs a _face_ (to express emotion, and to take
> advantage of the hardwired human facial-feature processor). But I
> really don't understand the need for two legs, and with some creative
> stretch, I'm unsure about the hands.

I agree. See Disney's Robin Hood and Jungle Book for creative ways of using 
snake characters. Also, a lack of arms never stopped Homestar Runner[1] from 
eating, reading, etc. :)

-Dave

[1] http://www.homestarrunner.com




From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Sep 21 12:53:02 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:53:02 +0200
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com> <3F6DD4D7.AF309B4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bkkl38$qee$03$2@news.t-online.com>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> Hmmm.
> 
> What is wrong with the following code? It seems to do what you need:
> 
> #=======================================================
> from urllib2 import urlopen
> import socket
> import sys
> 
> slowurl = "http://127.0.0.1/cgi-bin/longWait.py?wait=10"
> socket.setdefaulttimeout(1)
> 
> try:
>     data = urlopen(slowurl)
>     data.read()
> except socket.error:
>     errno, errstr = sys.exc_info()[:2]
>     if errno == socket.timeout:
>         print "There was a timeout"
>     else:
>         print "There was some other socket error"
> #==========================================================

You are right. I did not read the traceback carefully.

Peter





From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  7 14:26:28 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 11:26:28 -0700
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>

I was recently surprised, and quite shocked in fact, to find that
Python treats negative indices into sequence types as if they were
mod(length-of-sequence), at least up to -len(seq).

This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.
 One of the big advantages of a high-level language such as Python is
the ability to provide run-time bounds checking on array-type
constructs.  To achieve this I will now have to subclass my objects
and add it myself, which seems silly and will add significant
overhead.  If you want this behavior, how hard is it to say a = b[x %
len(b)] ??

Can anyone explain why this anomaly exists, and why it should continue
to exist?



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 12:21:10 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 09:21:10 -0700
Subject: removing terminal control characters
References: <mailman.1062700444.27829.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0309050821.3b82865e@posting.google.com>

Aaron,

Have a look at "Text Processing in Python," by David Mertz.
Wonderful book, just bought it from Amazon.com

Here is a link to the soft copy.
http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/

Cheers,

  --Alan

Aaron Kunkle <aaron at brokensociety.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062700444.27829.python-list at python.org>...
> i'm trying to display output from a linux command line program and i'm
> getting a lot of junk.
> i was told that pulling out escape sequences like this regex: \033[^;]*;
> would do it but that doesnt catch them all. i'm seeing the little box
> characters for instance.
> 
> the only way i've found thus far is this:
> 
> building the regex object:
>     regex = re.compile(r'\033[^;]*;')
> then passing each line of output through this:
>     line = regex.sub("",line)
>     junk = line.translate(identity, string.printable)
>     line = line.translate(identity, junk)
> 
> i know there must be a better way!
> is there a way to get a non-printable group of characters to search
> for?  
> 
> thanks,
> aaron kunkle
> 
> --



From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 11:25:15 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:25:15 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it> <bjcbha$vmp$02$1@news.t-online.com> <87r82uum7q.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bjcu9t$gim$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com>
> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:
> > "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it>
> [...]
> > My other point was that there is nothing like that going on in the
software
> > development business. The price of tools is of no significance. It is
the
> > (expected increase of productivity) The DoD Ada is the best example I
can
> > think of.
>
> I haven't noticed anybody here arguing about tool costs.  The issue is
> productivity.
Productivity was your issue we are discussing now - I started this (sub)
thread with a remark about costs......

[...]

> > Coding is agreed, maintenance is still questionable.
>
> You believe fewer lines of code, written in a language that almost
> everybody who uses it claims is the most readable they've ever seen,
> results in maintenance problems?  Perhaps you haven't discovered
> thorough unit-testing.
A maintenance problem occurs as well when the underlying virtual machine
changes or - as in case of the open system structure of Python - sone
add-ons have to be exchanged. An open system is *always* a mainenance
nightmare
[...]
> > It is not clear whether this is just a niche market like e.g. MATLAB.
>
> I honestly can't find any sense in that statement -- it's a foolishly
> empirical statement (and doesn't even reflect the empirical data).
> What reason do you have for thinking that Python is somehow magically
> restricted to implementing large search-engines??  Is it full of
> task-specific syntax and semantics like MATLAB?  Have you read the
> success stories page, or peoples' reports in this group?
Yes I have.


Kindly
Michael P






From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Sep  7 12:59:48 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 12:59:48 -0400
Subject: Ternery operator
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com>

Andrew Chalk wrote:
> 
> Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=4.16&req=search



From dermoon at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 11 08:44:19 2003
From: dermoon at hotmail.com (dermoon)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 05:44:19 -0700
Subject: Newbie-question: Fetching web-address from the browser!
Message-ID: <bff50f69.0309110444.55294d83@posting.google.com>

I want to fetch the address from the web-browser when it
visits a page on my web-server.

I use win2k on this server.

On linux I used os.environ[''], but it seemes it's not available on
win2k, is this correct?

However, how do I get the address-string?

Any help would be greatfully appreciated!

-Chris



From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Fri Sep  5 02:17:50 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 23:17:50 -0700
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062701300.6298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309042217.583afbf2@posting.google.com>

To:Brian Kelley
I can visit the website,but I can't download process.py.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
To:Dave
Yesterday I test the Venster , I make a dialog resource dll in VC6  .
I can show the dialog by sample code. but I can't merge the bittorrent
code to Venster app. I don't know venster's structure.

Bittorrent GUI involke core code from bittorrent package.  the
interface
is a function. 

## Displayer is a GUI class EXP:wxPython,Venster,that have some custom
function.
h = Displayer() 

Displayer have many function,that is download function's parameter. 
 
## download function is a interface between GUI and bittorrent
package.
download(params, h.chooseFile, h.display, h.finished, h.error,
Event(), cols, h.newpath)

Download return some download/upload status to GUI. 

I add these function to Venster's main class. the app can't run.

Anyone can tech me? Thanks.



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 13:50:54 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:50:54 GMT
Subject: FIFO problems
References: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de> <tJZ7b.67$o71.53@news2.central.cox.net> <Xns93F388B7855duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <2C28b.334$o71.156@news2.central.cox.net>

"Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns93F388B7855duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in
> news:tJZ7b.67$o71.53 at news2.central.cox.net:
>
> > There are various ways around this. Since you are talking interactive
> > multi-process stuff here it's probably safest to do somehting like the
> > following (untested) code:
> >
> > while 1:
> >     line = serverIn.readline()
> >     if not line:
> >         break
> >     del line[:-1]
> >     if line == "bla":
> >         do something incredibly interesting
> >     else:
> >         print line
>
> Untested is right. Your 'del' statement is a little bit too destructive,
or
> at least it would be if strings were mutable.
>
:-) Well, I can only remind myself that "the person who never made a mistake
never made anything".

> Here's my (equally untested) alternative:
>
> for line in serverIn:
>     line = line[:-1]
>     if line == "bla":
>         do something incredibly interesting
>     else:
>         print line
>

Unfortunately this doesn't include the end-of-file test that caused me to
write my original incorrect code. If it did, however, I'm sure it would work
;-)

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From mwh at python.net  Fri Sep 19 08:07:52 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:07:52 GMT
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Alan Kennedy wrote:
> > 
> > Peter Hansen wrote:
> > > Key phrase: "Metaobject protocols are interfaces to the language
> > > that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> > > behavior and implementation...".  Near as I can tell, part of the
> > > whole character of Python is that a user *cannot* do either of
> > > those things.
> > 
> > Hmm, does this rephrasing hold any truth?
> > 
> > "Metaclasses are interfaces to the python language
> > that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> > behavior and implementation...".
> > 
> > Isn't modifying standard behaviour the whole purpose of metaclasses?
> 
> But it doesn't really modify the *language's* behaviour in the way 
> implied by a simplistic reading of the above phrase.  That is, the
> "obvious" interpretation is that syntax and grammar are being affected,
> not just the behaviour of one small slice of the language, specifically
> how classes behave.  In some languages the two things are not so
> separate, but in Python they seem to be.

Huh?  Common Lisp's MOP doesn't change the language on that level,
either.  Presented with a form 

(foo bar)

nothing the MOP can do can change the usual processing (check to see
if foo is a macro, if so expand, otherwise check if it's a function,
if so evaluate bar and call the function, otherwise signal error).

Of course, there's a sense in which Common Lisp just doesn't have much
syntax, but Python's hardly overloaded with it, either.  *The objects*
or to be more precise the *types* of objects themselves are what
determine really happens, and that's precisely the sort of thing
metaclasses let you play with.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Lisp does badly because we refuse to lie.  When people ask us if 
  we can solve insoluble problems we say that we can't, and because 
  they expect us to lie to them, they find some other language
  where the truth is less respected.   -- Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 12 15:57:03 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:57:03 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com>
        <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com>
        <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com>
        <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org>
        <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>
        <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <16226.9487.204094.248590@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Mitch> At IPC8 Greg Wilson, then of the Software Carpentry project,
    Mitch> noted that the GIL made it hard to write multi-threaded Python
    Mitch> apps which could take advantage of multi-processor systems.  He
    Mitch> argued that this would limit Python's appeal in some segments of
    Mitch> the scientific community.

This is a known issue.  Thusfar, it hasn't seemed to slow down Python's
acceptance by the scientific community all that much.  Look at Scientific
Python, Numeric (and Numarray), as well as work in bioinformatics, 3D
graphics, etc.  I think the availability of high-quality tools is just as
important in the scientific community as elsewhere.

    Mitch> Perhaps those who find the subject important have left the
    Mitch> community?  Perhaps they've adopted kludgey workarounds?

Or perhaps they are happy to have tools like scipy and MayaVi to make their
jobs easier.

    Mitch> In my company the GIL has meant that some performance problems,
    Mitch> which could most easily be addressed by multiple threads sharing
    Mitch> access to large collections of Python objects, have been
    Mitch> deferred.

Nobody has claimed that it isn't a problem for some people.  It's maybe less
of a problem than it appears at first though.

Skip




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  3 08:14:16 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 05:14:16 -0700
Subject: Python REST framework?
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.09.03.02.59.50.703359@exultants.org>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0309030414.731044bd@posting.google.com>

> [Van Gale]
> Here's a nice little REST writeup with some sample Python code by Ken
> MacLeod:
> 
> <http://bitsko.slc.ut.us/blog/restful-api.writeback>

Thanks for that interesting link.  But I could not find the sample Python code...



From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Sep 15 19:27:38 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:27:38 -0700
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
References: <mailman.1063644809.12116.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1063658000.4467.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-CB5FFE.16273815092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1063658000.4467.python-list at python.org>,
 Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:

> Rob Hunter <rhunter007 at yahoo.com> wrote previously:
> |The FOR statement is mutating the variable i.
> |In general, in most cases, I find it *unacceptable* to use mutation.
> 
> Nope, Nope, No!
> 
> In Python, integers are IMMUTABLE.  Nothing anywhere will ever change
> their value.
> 
> What the 'for' statement does is BIND a value to a name.  Same thing an
> assignment does, and so on.
> 
> Some values are mutable, like lists and dictionaries.  But it seems like
> most of what Hunter writes is just a misunderstanding of the difference
> between mutation and binding.
> 
> If you like, you can create a 'let'-like prohibition on rebinding.  See:
> 
>     http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_16.html
> 
> The version on dW has the code samples messed up now.  But you do not
> usually want to do this.  It's just superfluous and contrived, rather
> than useful, mostly.

Hm, at this point I'm concluding that you know exactly what
he's talking about and don't have any substantial argument
with it, you only object to the term "mutate".  If he had
said "rebinding" instead, all would have been well?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 15:28:49 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:28:49 -0500
Subject: Python glossary - contribute your definitions
Message-ID: <16218.13681.159432.907101@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Awhile ago, in response to confusion about the meaning of "iterable", I
decided the Python documentation needed a glossary and created one with that
single entry.  Adding a glossary to the documentation with a single term
seemed kind of pointless, so I didn't check anything into CVS.

I'm still interested in getting this off the ground, though.  To make it
more likely that something significant gets done, I created a Wiki to which
people can add definitions:

    http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary

If you have some terms you think appropriate to the Python environment which
are poorly understood or likely to cause confusion, feel free to add them.
If you don't know a term, feel free to add it with "???" for the definition,
then subscribe to change notifications for that page.

Thanks,

Skip





From md7f2ac91d at xix.com  Thu Sep  4 09:56:58 2003
From: md7f2ac91d at xix.com (Manfred Bartz)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:56:58 +1000
Subject: built with --enable-shared but get error: libpython2.3.so.1.0:
 can't open shared object file
References: <ad2ca00b.0309040445.77c98c3c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2iso8hd1x.fsf@logi.cc>

turner at mmedia.is (Douglass Turner) writes:

> python: error while loading shared libraries: libpython2.3.so.1.0:
> cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
>
> This is really, really, frustrating. The file does in fact live in
> /usr/local/lib. ...

Try running

    /sbin/ldconfig -v | less

it should list libpython2.3.so.1.0 and starting python should now
automagically load the shared library.

-- 
Manfred



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 12:21:40 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:21:40 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <001c01c3755a$7a7fd410$0a00a8c0@JASPER>
Message-ID: <002201c3755c$24cb4c50$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

>John W Hall
>> When I view _this_ site in IE6, it has low-contrast text in a small
>> size, which "view|text size" cannot change.
>
>Did I mention it was an image?

Sorry, gotcha now...  www.zeldman.com

Tim






From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 09:55:14 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 14:55:14 +0100
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87ekyyase5.fsf@pobox.com>

ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses) writes:
[...]
> Python is a really good programming language. But how to do a
> small,smart, efficency GUI in win32,it's a big question.

http://venster.sourceforge.net/

[...]
> 4. use pythonwin. mfc or win32gui framework. I check the demo code,
> it's very complex.  you know I hate MFC. it's a joke. i like VCL so
> much.

Well, if you hate win32 also, then you won't like venster.


> 5. I have a another idea. use wxWindows (c lan) build a GUI. embed
> python code .  or embed wxWindows code to python by SWIG. I have't
> test it. if you have do it.  Please tell us.

Interesting idea.


John



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep 29 17:20:21 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:20:21 -0400
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51>
 <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <VIKe/kKkX4zZ092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote previously:
|I just wrote a fairly simple sieve, which gave primes up to 1,000,000
|in a few seconds (1.8GHz P4, Python code). There were 78498 primes in
|that range...at least in theory there should be less than 100 times as
|many primes in the range up to 10^8.

Quite a few less, actually.  Under Gauss' Prime Number Theorem, an
approximation for the number of primes less than N is N/ln(N).  I know
there have been some slight refinements in this estimate since 1792, but
in the ranges we're talking about, it's plenty good enough.

So I only expect around 5,428,681 primes less than 10^8 to occur.  Well,
that's not SO much less than 7.8M.

|So here's the thought - a binary file containing a complete list of
|primes up to 10^8 would require roughly 30MB (using 32 bit integers,
|which should comfortably handle your requirement).

I wonder if such a data structure is really necessary.  Certainly it
produces a class of answers quite quickly.  I.e. search for a prime, and
its offset immediately gives you the number of primes less than it.
Heck, searching for any number, even a composite occurring between
primes, works pretty much the same way.  Of course, the above
approximation gives you a close answer even quicker.

But if you are worried about disk storage, one easy shortcut is to store
a collection of 16-bit differences between successive primes.  That's
half the size, and still lets you answer the desired question *pretty*
quickly (extra addition is required)... or at least generate a local
copy of Horne's data structure in one pass.

Moving farther, even this gap structure is quite compressible.  Most
gaps are quite a bit smaller than 65536, so the highbits are zeros.  In
fact, I am pretty sure that almost all the gaps are less than 256.  So
an immediate compression strategy (saving disk space, costing time to
recreate the transparent structure) is to store gaps as 8-bit values,
with a x00 byte escaping into a larger value (I guess in the next two
bytes).

Maybe I'll try it, and see how small I can make the data... unless I do
my real work :-).

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 16:36:22 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:36:22 -0400
Subject: New style classes
References: <3f68bf1b$0$42051$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3F68C5C6.EEE50394@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> Is it just me, or does the "new style american girlfriend" line
> from "Sixteen Candles" pop into anybody else's head when the
> see the phrase "new style classes" mentioned on a subject line?
> 
> Ah. Just me?
> 
> I was afraid of that.

I treat the new style ones as objects.  I like them
better that way, 'cause the old ones weren't my type.

-Peter ;-)



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 24 18:46:09 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:46:09 -0600
Subject: Where to publish my code
References: <1f0bdf30.0309212039.16c9bef0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkt6rh$pv0$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Erik Lechak wrote:

> I have started working on a graphical programming tool for Python.  It
> is similar to Matlab's Simulink (block diagram programming tool).

Not that I'm trying to discourage you in any way from working on your own, but
are you familiar with viper?

http://www.scripps.edu/~stoffler/proj/ViPEr/viper.html

This thing is simply amazing, big, stable, and heavily used for real research. 
You might at least want to have a look at it for inspiration purposes if you
wish to develop your own project.

Best regards,

Fernando.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 30 22:09:53 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:09:53 -0400
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn61legdn9jf56@news.supernews.com> <2c9knv86m1il4ajng85655dm7u5j5b992i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vnkds7nbjf8420@news.supernews.com>

"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in
message news:2c9knv86m1il4ajng85655dm7u5j5b992i at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:15:51 -0400, "John Roth"
> <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>
> >Frankly, I'd like to see special case syntax for an empty
> >sequence, but it's not that hard to handle now.
>
> That is what the 'else' suggests to me - particularly with 'while'
> loops. I don't think I've ever needed the existing 'else', but I could
> have used a loop-body-not-executed-at-all special case on a number of
> occasions
>
> I can see the use an application of 'else', of course - if you use
> 'break' to end a loop you may need different cleanup and therefore
> need to skip the standard cleanup. But if this is an issue I'm
> probably already using raise rather than break because it's most
> likely an error rather than a normal case.
>
> My guess is that it probably made a lot more sense before exceptions
> were added to Python.

I don't see what exceptions have to do with it. There are three
special ending cases: with break, empty sequence and sequence
exhausted. Empty sequence is the only one that isn't handled easily.

I suspect the use of 'else' was simply taking advantage of an
existing keyword, complete with contorted justification of why
that was acceptable.

What I'd like to see is a more general exit clause that also
applies to the while statement. Something like:

on break:
on normal_exit:
on empty_sequence:
on body_not_executed:

"on" would be a keyword, but the other four words would
only be recognized in the context of the "on" statement. It
requires one new keyword, but I think that it's easily
recognizable exactly what it does.

John Roth

>
>
> -- 
> Steve Horne
>
> steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk





From 2ianbutt at rogers.com  Fri Sep  5 15:59:55 2003
From: 2ianbutt at rogers.com (Ian)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 12:59:55 -0700
Subject: Help with a utility class and having a method call another method from within
Message-ID: <37500ed8.0309051159.1eef42c5@posting.google.com>

I have written this utility class that has a method which calls
another method.  I don't want to pass in the self parameter and was
wondering by doing this does it make the function to be private or
uncallable outside of the class.

This code below works, but I didn't really want to pass self into
testBob1(ideally having it as private), I wanted the declaration to be
def testBob1(a).  Can someone explains to me why this can't be done ? 
I would get the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 301, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "X:\ibutt_1\EEU\development\prototype\martini\scripts\aaa.py",
line 3, in ?
    print SampleClassd().testBob2(2)
  File "SampleClass.py", line 15, in testBob2
    return SampleClassd().testBob1(a)
TypeError: testBob1() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given
 

in file-->SampleClass.py

class SampleClassd :

    def __init__(self) :
        self.test = 'a'	        
    
    def testBob1(self, a) :
        if a == 1:
            return True
        else:
            return False

    def testBob2(self, a) :        
        return SampleClassd().testBob1(a)

Main file
=========

from SampleClass import SampleClassd

print SampleClassd().testBob2(2)



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 19 11:43:55 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:43:55 +0200
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.1063981048.25814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkf89c$ema$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Leeds, Mark wrote:

> python : i am a python novice and i
> am reading in a text file of say 500
> lines with the fields in each line elimited by a "|" and
> there are 90 records in each line.

Have a look at the new csv module for similar tasks.

> so, my question is , is it possible
> to take the one big list that
> i have now and tell python
> to take the fields in the list
> and make a list of lists where
> each sub list is composed of every 90
> items in the list ? I imagine this

flat = range(11) #your big list

delta = 2 # that would be 90
lol = [flat[start:start+delta] for start in range(0, len(flat), delta)]

print lol

(No special tricks here as it is throw-away code.)

> p.s : i was going to include part

*Always* a good idea to include the code that messed it up; do it next time!
The same goes for a descriptive subject line.

Peter



From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Sep 25 12:22:08 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:22:08 -0700
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk> <kgj3nvgn6cnp9u3f66cb2vtok697lgjt89@4ax.com> <3f721b0c-fce176ad-f4e1-4bdc-8527-cc05ef24ad42@news.szn.dk> <3F722887.F4521F68@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <donn-4F5CC6.09220825092003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <3F722887.F4521F68 at alcyone.com>,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
> 
> > Anyway you look at it, killing blindly is bad programming practice.
> 
> But he's killing with a signal of 0.  From kill(2):
> 
>        If sig is 0, then no signal is sent, but error checking is
>        still performed.
> 
> It's perfectly reasonable behavior to kill a process with a 0 signal; it
> does no harm.

I think it would be reasonable to posit an implied context
for discussion of any programming technique, that said
technique would be deployed for some purpose.

If that is not too bold of an assumption, I think it follows
that our standard for a good programming practice has to be
a little more stringent that just whether deployment of the
technique causes any harm.  In this case, for example, the
proposed technique is use the information returned from kill(0)
to decide whether some process is still alive, and according
to our theory of purposeful programming, we may guess that
the program then acts on the basis of that decision.

If kill(0) actually does not reliably indicate that the process
is alive because process IDs are not unique over time, then
it is arguably harmful as a programming practice even if it
is harmless as a system call.

What actually happens with processes that exited but haven't
been reaped by their parent with wait(2) or similar?  Seems
to vary quite a bit, here's what I found -

 FreeBSD 5.1   - No such process, ps PID=0, owned by me
 Linux 2.4     - kill -0 works
 MacOS X/Darwin - No such process, ps original PID, owner root

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Tue Sep  2 10:52:22 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 07:52:22 -0700
Subject: **kwds behavior?
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>

Why does the following attempts to pass in keywords arguments not
work. It would be alot cooler if there was a way to not have to have
the function defined with the variable name. It really seems to me
that the 3rd function should work. Does anyone know how to accomplish
something like this.
def testKeywords1 (**kwds):
	print x
	
def testKeywords2 (**kwds):
	locals().update(kwds)
	print x
		
def testKeywords3 (**kwds):
	locals().update(kwds)
	def testNested():
		print x
	testNested()
	
dict = {}
dict['x'] = 5
# doesn't work
testKeywords1(**dict)
# doesn't work
testKeywords2(**dict)
# doesn't work
testKeywords3(**dict)



From me at no.where  Mon Sep 29 14:59:12 2003
From: me at no.where (mike)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:59:12 -0400
Subject: embedding python and new-style classes
References: <bl9q3d$3lo$1@houston.jhuapl.edu> <fdugnv8sk2c3b7j7s1p8r8m05frcfnsu92@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bl9ve0$ran$1@houston.jhuapl.edu>

> I'm relatively new at extending/embedding so I don't know if this has
> changed, but doing this recently I simply noted that Python class
> objects are callables and that calling them returns an instantiation.
> I use Boost.Python, but I imagine you can simply use
> PyObject_CallMethod with the class object.

Good point - I just tried using PyObject_Call(), and that seems to work.
Thanks for the help!

mike





From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Thu Sep 25 14:25:18 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:25:18 GMT
Subject: send email
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064455474.2847.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064455474.2847.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iqGcb.40225$4J2.1849450@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Alberto Vera wrote:
> Hello:
>  
> Could you tell me How I can send an email using WIN2000? What do I need?
>  
> Thanks

Why don't you try the following:

##### start of script #######
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
import smtplib

myVar = 'result of previous action'

body='''this text will become the body of the message
Using triple-quotes you can span it easily over multiple lines.
You can also add the value of variables in it: %s .
This can come in handy if you want to mail
the result of an action''' % (myVar)

msg = MIMEText(body)
 From = "myApp at myServer.net"
To = "whoever.is.interested at mydomain.org"
CC = "someone.else at mydomain.org"
msg['From'] = From
msg['To'] = To
msg['Cc'] = CC
msg['Subject'] = "Don't leave me empty please"

server = smtplib.SMTP("mailserver.mydomain.org")
server.sendmail(From,[To,CC],msg.as_string())
server.quit

###### end of script #####




From emile at fenx.com  Mon Sep 22 15:38:01 2003
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:38:01 -0700
Subject: 2nd iteration of a character
References: <bkigte$1e3b$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bknk9s$uih$1@sea.gmane.org>

> How do I find the second iteration of a character in a string using python
>
> this gives me the first one
> f1 = string.find(line,sub)
>
> this the last one
> f2 = string.rfind(line,sub)
>
> but for the nth one ?
>

You've already got some good answers, so how about (-:


>>> def nth(s,ss,n): return n<len(s.split(ss)) and
len(ss.join(s.split(ss)[:n]))
...
>>> s = 'this is a test this is a test'
>>> nth(s,'t',7)
False
>>> nth(s,'t',5)
25
>>> nth(s,'i',2)
5
>>> nth(s,'x',2)
False
>>>

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com







From pkropf at legato.com  Thu Sep 11 18:10:25 2003
From: pkropf at legato.com (Peter Kropf)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:10:25 -0700
Subject: Web server with Python
Message-ID: <96F3EC4BDF504540BB9715CBE9DACB8B0194876F@pa-mail1.legato.com>

Another to consider is WebWare (http://webware.sourceforge.net/). I've used
it on Windows, Solaris and Linux to create comparably sized sites...

- Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Useldinger [mailto:p.useldinger at myrealbox.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:04 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Web server with Python


Hi all, 
after my unsuccessful try to run Apache 2 with mod_python and Python 2.3, I
am looking for an alternative approach. My aim is to write a small web-based
application:

Python
- the solution must be based / usable on Python 2.3

Portability
Targeted plaforms are
- Windows 2000 Server
- Windows XP Pro
- AIX 5.1

Webserver:
- supporting up to 50 concurrent client connections
- must be able to use Python 2.3 to create dynamic pages
I can think of 3 alternatives to Apache:
- Medusa
- Twisted
- Zope
Which one is the easiest to work with? Which one is known to work on an AIX
5.1 platform, for instance?

Persistent storage
- Is ZODB easily usable from outside Python, i.e. to produce reports without
reverting to programming?
- Is MySQL with Python a good combination?


Regards,
-PU
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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From rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au  Sat Sep  6 01:23:49 2003
From: rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au (Chris)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 05:23:49 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com> <g_Y5b.25276$R32.778757@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <74e674c13888643bf15a72e800c9d8ed@news.teranews.com>

LOL 

thanks for the heads up on Boost

I have just downloaded Swig and am beginning to explore that, So boost 
also sounds like a good idea.

I think with my penchant for small things I may be getting carried away.

I guess suck it and see is my best option, I have explored the source 
code for perl 5.8 and got considerably lost :( 

I will have to try python and see if I come out any wiser

Regards 
Chris


Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in
news:g_Y5b.25276$R32.778757 at news2.tin.it: 

> Chris wrote:
>    ...
>> So if I call vfunction(); and an add on has been written that
>> redefines this function (and possibly calls the base c++ function)
>> that it is called correctly.
>> 
>> I have chosen perl and python as my preferred languages because of
>> the large developer base for add ons
>> 
>> The interpreter will only have a subset of the standard funtionality,
>> for example sockets will be removed.
>> 
>> QUESTION
>> 
>> Given the above which interpreter is most likely to fit my bill with
>> the smallest footprint ?
> 
> No idea about "footprint", partly because it so crucially depends on
> what you will or won't remove.  But trying it out for benchmark and
> measurement is trivially easy for Python -- use Boost Python, which
> you get from www.boost.org, and the "subclassing C++ in Python with
> the possibility of overriding virtual functions" functionality is
> there. 
> 
> Assuming it's just as easy for Perl (sorry, no idea), trying it for
> both languages and measuring footprint should fit comfortably within
> an afternoon with ample time left over for tea;-).
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep 22 10:36:01 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:36:01 +0200
Subject: None???
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-AAC3F1.11134721092003@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <EV6bb.1834$iT4.1283814@news1.news.adelphia.net> <m2he37549i.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net> <3F6D68AA.9070603@aon.at> <eppstein-AAC3F1.11134721092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20030922143601.GA4482@nl.linux.org>

David Eppstein wrote:
> In article <3F6D68AA.9070603 at aon.at>, Gregor Lingl <glingl at aon.at> 
> wrote:
> > This comes from using integer-constants together with
> > inputting integers, which causes the /-operator to
> > perform integer division.
> 
> Arguably, any code that uses / with integer arguments is now buggy, 
> because it will produce different results in different Python versions.  
> You should either use // (integer division) or force floating point 
> division (e.g. by changing the expression to income*percent/100.0).

Or, of course, use from __future__ import division. That is always
the first line of any of my files, I can't live without it :)

Gerrit.

-- 
208. If he was a freed man, he shall pay one-third of a mina.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From bogus at invalid.tld  Tue Sep 23 21:51:48 2003
From: bogus at invalid.tld (Jules Dubois)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:51:48 -0600
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <18wcsr2ljn7sq$.1m4p2wppkx0ld$.dlg@40tude.net>

On 23 Sep 2003 16:47:40 -0700, in article
<879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7 at posting.google.com>, John Lin wrote:

> The only way I can think of is to fork a process and then call the
> shell script, as in:
>   pid = os.fork()
>[...]
> In sum, my two questions are:
> 1.  How can I know if a forked shell script is finished?

Under Unix, there's a wait() system call to go along with fork().  I'll bet
Python was something similar.

> 2.  How can I run a shell script inside a python script without
> forking a new process, so that I can know the shell script is done
> from within the same python script?

Something like system()?



From kmkstyle at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 08:02:12 2003
From: kmkstyle at hotmail.com (Kathleen Kudzma)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:02:12 -0400
Subject: py2exe & pyxml
Message-ID: <Law15-F885KJbGBSNfG00007503@hotmail.com>

Does anyone know how to resolve the following problem that I'm getting in 
Python 2.2 and 2.3?

PROBLEM: When I try to create a classReader object I get an exception: 
"SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found".  This only happens when I run the 
.EXE; it does not happen if I run the .PY file.  When I'm running the .EXE 
this exception doesn't happen immediately.  It happens as soon as I try to 
create a classReader object.

Please see the warnings that I get below when I create the .EXE:

>**********
>>warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found: warning: py2exe: 
>>*   Carbon.Folder warning: py2exe: *   Carbon.Folders warning: py2exe: *   
>>DateTime warning: py2exe: *   Ft.Lib warning: py2exe: *   
>>Ft.Lib.DumpBgTuple warning: py2exe: *   Ft.__init__ warning: py2exe: *   
>>SOCKS warning: py2exe: *   XPathParserc warning: py2exe: *   
>>ext.IsDOMString warning: py2exe: *   ext.SplitQName warning: py2exe: *   
>>fcntl warning: py2exe: *   ic warning: py2exe: *   mx.DateTime warning: 
>>py2exe: *   rourl2path warning: py2exe: *   xml.xslt warning: py2exe: *   
>>xml.xslt.ParsedPattern warning: py2exe:
>>***************************************************************

_________________________________________________________________
Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! 
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam





From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Sep 21 13:47:12 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:47:12 -0400
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
In-Reply-To: <2skbb.49391$Aq2.37497@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCENPGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Phil Weldon]
> I don't think 'fewer' examples of bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail'
> messages will be 'better' because of the permutating and morphing
> nature of this worm generated message.  'Fewer' examples would result
> in ALL 'Undeliverable e-mail' message catagorized as objectionable
> because the number valid messages of this type is so small in the
> save e-mail that most users have.

Which is exactly why training on "too many" such unwanted messages will make
it very difficult for the handful of legitimate messages of that sort to
score as ham.  I started the spambayes project, and did most of the research
for, and coding of, its tokenizer and classifier, but you're certainly free
to ignore my ill-informed advice <wink>.

> In addition, I'd opt for the commercial product because protecting my
> systems against infection is not what I want to spend my time doing,
> and I'm quite willing to pay for that product.

I have no objection to people buying Inboxer.  It adds real value for a very
large class of users.  I'll repeat what I said:

>> The classification engine in Inboxer comes from the free spambayes
>> project:
>>
>>     http://www.spambayes.org/
>>
>> Inboxer is a commercial product (produced by some old friends of
>> mine from Dragon Systems, but I have no other connection to it),
>> which can afford to pay people to research and add ease-of-use
>> features.  The spambayes project is behind on that count, but for
>> the technically-minded should perform equally well.

Since the code doing the analysis is identical between the two, people
comfortable with Python programming may well get just as much good from the
spambayes distribution.  Programmers don't need as much hand-holding as
users in Inboxer's general-population target market.  Since this is the
comp.lang.python newsgroup, I expect most readers *here* fit in the
programmer class of user.  I don't object to them buying Inboxer either, but
I think the information I provided will be appreciated by most people here.

> Now, if I can just find a way to charge the cost to Earthlink because
> of their failure to perform their implicit contract to provide
> reliable e-mail service.

I suspect they already thought of that trick <wink> -- a good start would be
to read your service contract with them.





From BoteDesSchattens at web.de  Wed Sep 17 14:21:35 2003
From: BoteDesSchattens at web.de (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 18:21:35 GMT
Subject: Sound, time and platform issues
References: <bka4k6$j9a$1@news.peterlink.ru>
Message-ID: <bka8ne$q0hl7$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

anton muhin <antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru> wrote in
news:bka4k6$j9a$1 at news.peterlink.ru: 

> 3. If there is no Windows solution, what is the simplest way to use 
> Linux? I have a notebook and rather limited knowledge of Linux. I
> don't want to install Linux on the notebook---harddrive is somewhat
> limited. However, I heard that there are some variants of *nix that
> needs only boot-CD. Does anybody have experience with systems like
> these? 

Yuz. A little bit, at least. There's two alternatives I know of.
1. Knoppix. There you have a completely free system, basing on Debian 
Linux, that boots from CD-ROM and gives you a complete Linux system, 
including KDE (graphical user interface) and all the stuff you would need 
to write python. But since it won't change your machine at all, you will 
probably have to reinstall the desired sound modules at every reboot and 
have all of your files stored on your harddisk, or all will be lost. 
Normally, you would find information about Knoppix at 
www.knopper.net/knoppix, but this site is closed right now due to the 
Software Patent Issue of the European Union.
2. SuSE Linux Live-Eval (or something like that). I never tried that, but 
this is supposed to be a "Test-Linux" from the german linux distributor 
SuSE that is freely available. 
(http://www.suse.de/us/private/download/ftp/live_eval_int.html)

Bye
Tobias



From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 17:58:54 2003
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 21:58:54 GMT
Subject: compound conditional statements
References: <3064b51d.0309151331.76f1d658@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk5cmu$pg8du$1@ID-114079.news.uni-berlin.de>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> If I have code 
>
> if (aa or bb): print "true", 
>
> does Python evaluate aa and bb in any particular order? 

Yes.  `aa' is evaluated first.  If it is true, `bb' is not evaluated
and the value of `aa' is the value of the expreesion.  If `aa' is
false, the value of `bb' is the value of the expression.

> Can I assume that if aa is true, bb will not be evaluated?

Yes.

Jeremy.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 12 12:27:51 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:27:51 +0100
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <3F615217.8060106@sci.fi> <mailman.1063377679.19889.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F61F407.DC7FB2F9@hotmail.com>

Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> writes:
>> The simple solution is,
>> that each thread created in Python gets its own independent
>> interpreter state as well. And there could be a separate
>> thread-global interpreter state for shared memory access. Access
>> to this global state would always be
>> synchronized. 

"Christopher A. Craig" wrote:
> Couldn't you do this now with multiple processes and the shm module?

Yes, you can store representations of python objects in shared memory,
e.g. pickles, etc: an in-memory database, with indices, etc. 

So when you want to access a "shared" object, you go to the shared
store, retrieve the pickle, unpickle it and use it, making sure to
repickle any changes and store them back in the shared memory. Which
might be cumbersome and inefficient, particularly if your goal is to
maximise efficiency in a multi-processor situation.

But if you want to store actual python objects in shared memory, and
avoid all the pickling etc,then you have to change the interpreter so
that it obtains the memory for new python objects from the shared
memory pool instead of "local" memory.

Which leads to problems with reference counting and garbage
collection. These would have to take multiple processes into account:
what happens when a process goes down? Should the objects allocated by
it be destroyed? Or remain persistent? Until when? If a process died
in an unclean fashion, it might not delete its references to objects
cleanly.

And it gets more complex again when you're dealing with users and
permissions.

I think that there are so many questions associated with the approach
of sharing python objects through shared memory that it will probably
remain an "application specific" technique for some time to come.

Though doubtless some more knowledgable person than I will now
contradict me. Please. :-)

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From lsommerer at sewardweb.com  Fri Sep 19 19:36:49 2003
From: lsommerer at sewardweb.com (L. Sommerer)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:36:49 -0500
Subject: Fsrit Propttoye: SCLABMRE
References: <mailman.1063804763.5990.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oprvrs7nv038n7vp@news.alltel.net>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:18:26 -0400, Frnak "Sealmbcrd Eggs" Lomax 
<lomax at pumpichank.com> wrote:

>
> I hvae jsut fhiseind rniedag a Shdlaost atrlcie from Mnoday, Sbepemetr
> 15th, aobut an ingtriniug sdtuy from Cgbdirmae Uinevtrsiy, dciinesrbg
> how wodrs with thier itienrors selmrbacd can siltl be rdbaleae.
> Bcaeuse of the tioeznme that I lvie in, an initettrment dfceet in my
> clbae medom, and the lneiignrg atfer-ecfefts of my lsat "mohsroum
> salad exntarvzagaa", I am aaylws two days bhneid on the Web.
>
> [snip]

I was really glad to read this post.  I worked on the same little bit of 
code one evening this week, but I didn't feel very good about the solution. 
 I haven't been coding in python long, and it was quite instructive to see 
how someone else approached the same problem.

Lloyd Sommerer

(Here's what I did in case anyone's interested.)
-----------------------------------------------------
from random import shuffle

def scramble_word(MyWord):
    #
    # If the word includes punctuation, save the punctuation for later use,
    # and remove it from the end of the word.
    #
    if MyWord[-1] in [".", ";", ":", "," ,"!", "?"]:
        Punctuation = MyWord[-1]
        MyWord = MyWord[0:-1]
    else:
        Punctuation = ""
    #
    # 1, 2 and 3 letter words don't need to be scrambled, so skip them.
    #
    if len(MyWord) < 4:
        return MyWord + Punctuation
    else:
        #
        # Carve out the middle and make a list out of it so we can shuffle 
it
        # (can't shuffle a string). Then use "reduce" to return the list as 
a
        # string.
        #
        Middle = MyWord[1:-1]
        MiddleList = list(Middle)
        shuffle(MiddleList)
        NewMiddle = reduce(concat_letters, MiddleList)
        return MyWord[0] + NewMiddle + MyWord[-1] + Punctuation

def scramble(SomeText):
     ScrambledList = [scramble_word(x) for x in SomeText.split()]
     return reduce(concat_words, ScrambledList)
    def concat_letters(x,y):
    return x+y

def concat_words(x,y):
    return x+" "+y

if __name__ == '__main__':
    print 'Usage: scramble("Insert some text here to scramble")'




From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Sep 15 15:28:01 2003
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:28:01 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Sep 15)
Message-ID: <vmc4m1942l8o88@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "Of course it's still an ugly idiom. But there's a distinction between
ugly-but-works and ugly-and-wrong."  -- Michael Chermside commenting on one of
the standard ways to simulate an if-then-else expression.

"This is the nature of Usenet and threaded discussions, where one person makes
several comments, some less on-topic that the rest, and another person picks up
on those less on-topic comments and ignores the more on-topic ones.  If
everyone posted only responses which *strictly* addressed the original
question, Usenet would be very boring indeed." -- Peter Hansen on why
*his* post didn't match the subject line for the original question.

Discussion
----------
    Ubaidullah Nubar innocently asks about the relative merits of GUI
    frameworks on each operating system.  The resulting thread is full
    of informative comparisons and hard won experience:
	<http://groups.google.com/groups?th=ae4968f5cffe6bfc>

    Dinu Gherman writes about EmPy for *Linux Magazine*:
	<http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/35/EmPy_Wiki.pdf>

    John Roth suggests a possible reason that Python and C# don't have Java-
    style Checked Expressions:
	<http://groups.google.com/groups?th=27e1c8e784a1c80>

    Ron Stephens offers up his askMerlin program as example code for newbies
    and as an open application that allows them to graft on parts of their
    own construction.  The effort is notable for re-invigorating the CP4E
    project, Computer Programming for Everyone:
	<http://groups.google.com/groups?th=26115a570df7854e>

    Randy Ito proposes a group effort to create Macromedia Flash Remoting
    servers in Python:
	<http://groups.google.com/groups?th=937778308888502d>

    Erik Lechak posts a code snippet for a less than mission critical
    application, downloading TV listings:
	<http://groups.google.com/groups?th=6bdb627ac7220744>

    Last week, Skip Montanaro set up a wiki so that the community can
    participate in creating a glossary of key python terminology.  It is
    already evolving to cover many core concepts for understanding Python:
        <http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary>

    This week's ideas for changing the language:
	* the ternary operator (if-then-else expression) never seems to die
  
Releases
--------
    CUTE 0.2 - QT and Scintilla based code editor, scriptable with python
	<http://cute.sourceforge.net>

    SalStat 20030911 - Python/wxPython application for statistical analysis
	<http://salstat.sunsite.dk>

    hashtar 0.1 - archival encryption to corruptible media
	<http://nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu:8080/hashtar>

    Python Computer Graphics Kit v1.0.1 - collection of Python modules for
	creating 3D computer graphics images
	<http://cgkit.sourceforge.net>

    Spe 0.1.6 - Python IDE with support for Blender
	<http://spe.pycs.net>

    EmPy 3.1 - system for embedding Python expressions and statements in
	template text
	<http://www.alcyone.com/software/empy/>

    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep 25 10:06:37 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:06:37 GMT
Subject: Stuck building a Python extension
References: <memo.20030925140741.2140G@forestfield.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NDCcb.164876$R32.5293200@news2.tin.it>

David Hughes wrote:

> I'm nearly there building a Python extension module to access a set of
> functions in a .dll, but I'm getting an unresolved external error for one
> of the function calls (using MS Visual C++ V6).
> 
> The function prototype is:
> 
> extern short __stdcall SharewareLimit(char * s1, char * s2, short i);
   ...
> I would expect the code to be calling a function called _SharewareLimit at 10
> to match the size of the arguments (and which I have called successfully
> from a Fortran program in the past), but the unresolved external is
> _SharewareLimit at 12, implying that somewhere the short 2-byte integer is
> being promoted to 4 bytes.
> 
> I know this is probably a C compiler (settings?) not a Python problem, but
> I'd appreciate some assistance as my knowledge in this area is sketchy.

Looks like somebody is doing something funky such as "#define short int".
Check it out with a printf of sizeof(short) [faking out the call that is
not working] -- if it's 4 then you're left to determine who dun it and
nuke THAT out somehow.


Alex





From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 24 08:41:30 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:41:30 +0200
Subject: [Tkinter] event problem
References: <bks0va$9mv$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <bks3g0$i0a$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Ivan Letal wrote:

> I have just tried this code..
> 
> Tkinter import *
> 
> root = Tk()
> 
> def callback(event):
>      print "clicked at", event.x, event.y
> 
> frame = Frame(root, width=100, height=100)
> frame.bind("<Button-1>", callback)
> frame.pack()
> root.mainloop()
> 
> .. on my SuSE Linux 8.2, Python 2.2.2, python-tk 2.2.2.
> 
> This opens a new window, but there is a problem when I click on it. I
> tried similar code where clicking on a button does the same. Can anyone
> help?
> 
> Here is the error:
> 
> Exception in Tkinter callback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File
> "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line
> 1299, in __call__
>      args = apply(self.subst, args)
>    File
> "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line
> 1035, in _substitute
>      e.height = getint(h)
> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): ??


No problems with your code here (Suse 8.1, Python 2.3).

The relevant portion of 2.3's Tkinter.py has an interesting comment together
with what seems to be a Tk workaround:

[...]
    def _substitute(self, *args):
        """Internal function."""
        if len(args) != len(self._subst_format): return args
        getboolean = self.tk.getboolean

        getint = int
        def getint_event(s):
            """Tk changed behavior in 8.4.2, returning "??" rather more
often."""
            try:
                return int(s)
            except ValueError:
                return s
[...]

So, if that's an option, upgrading to 2.3 should solve your problem.

Peter



From allmyjunkemails at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 17:18:58 2003
From: allmyjunkemails at yahoo.com (Charles Larry)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 14:18:58 -0700
Subject: Calling functions before that are def'ed
Message-ID: <944840ff.0309221318.35d2f9cd@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to define functions after the main part of a Python
script?

Example:

#!/usr/local/bin/python

# this code yields a NameError

print_message("hello world")

def print_message(msg):
    print msg


I know functions can be put in separate files and imported, but I want
everything in a single file.  Am I stuck with defining all the
functions first?  If so, how come at compile-time Python can't look
ahead in the program and discover the existence of functions referred
to but not yet defined?

Regards,
Charles



From wt at nic.fi  Sun Sep 14 16:45:24 2003
From: wt at nic.fi (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:45:24 +0300
Subject: Encoding problems with DCOracle2
Message-ID: <ro49b.6833$ZB4.4248@reader1.news.jippii.net>

I'm having some trouble with Python2.2 and DCOracle2. I'm successfully 
executing a query, and getting the result I'm hoping for - with an added 
bonus of some interesting encoding. The beginning of the result set I 
get looks like this:

[['\x00A\x001', '\x00M\x00i\x00k\x00e\x00 
\x00P\x00o\x00r\x00t\x00n\x00o\x00y', None, None, 
'\x00d\x00r\x00u\x00m\x00s'], ...

So, where are those \x00 -characters coming? It should read:

[['A1', 'Mike Portnoy', None, None, 'drums'], ...

(...it's an artist database, and that's Dream Theater's drummer..)

-- 
Timo Virkkala | wt at nic.fi

   "In the battle between you and the world, bet on the world."




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Sep  5 01:22:24 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 07:22:24 +0200
Subject: Starting point for unicode conversion
References: <Xns93ECCD3735B8Bhowardeegsoftwarecom@64.164.98.50>
Message-ID: <m38yp33j3j.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Howard Lightstone <howard at eegsoftware.com> writes:

> The key point here is Tkinter.  I believe (from reading this list) that I 
> can expect that SOME returned text may be Unicode (depending on content and 
> Windows locale settings).

Yes, and no. Yes, some returned text may be Unicode, but no, it won't
depend on the locale settings. Instead, Tkinter will return a byte
string if the result contains only ASCII characters, and return a
Unicode string if there are non-ASCII characters.

> Would it be best to just (somehow) force all text into Unicode or would it 
> be "better" to handle specific instances?

If you are prepared to deal with Unicode, it would be best to force
that throughout. I was contemplating to make this an option in
_tkinter, but that has not been implemented - contributions are
welcome.

Meanwhile, you can use 

  s = unicode(s)

on all strings returned from Tkinter: if s is an ASCII string, the
default encoding should happily convert it to a Unicode object; if s
is a Unicode string, unicode(s) will be a no-op.

> I also have the problem of embedded text in data files I create that I have 
> to store as *something* that I can fully recover and convert back to 
> something reasonable even if the locale changes.

Don't worry about the locale; it does not matter here.

Regards,
Martin



From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Wed Sep 10 12:51:39 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 16:51:39 GMT
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <mailman.1062774119.18681.python-list@python.org> <hawkfish-96D864.15285508092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <mailman.1063120529.4655.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hawkfish-7226FD.09504710092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

In article <mailman.1063120529.4655.python-list at python.org>,
 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>     Richard> Yes, that is the problem, but it is not clear how to release
>     Richard> the connections.  They get released immediately when the script
>     Richard> terminates.  I am wondering of it is a gc problem.
> 
> How about you explicitly tack an explicit
> 
>     exit;

Yes, no effect.  And gc.collect() has no effect either.

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"'You don't know how to manage Looking-glass cakes,' the Unicorn remarked.
 'Hand it round first, and cut it afterwards.'" 
    - Lewis Carroll, _Through The Looking-Glass And What Alice Found There_



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep  1 06:44:33 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:44:33 +0200
Subject: method (a, b = '', *c, **d): gets a syntax error?
In-Reply-To: <-6-dnRcax4ZCW9KiXTWJkA@comcast.com>
References: <3F4F644D.2060003@uni-bonn.de> <3dqcndZe5u2g4NKiXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bio39s$2ai$03$1@news.t-online.com> <-6-dnRcax4ZCW9KiXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030901104433.GA3413@nl.linux.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> >>> def f2(**d,): pass
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     def f2(**d,): pass
>               ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> # On the original fixed-pitch font screen, both arrows point at
> offending comma.
> 
> Can someone verify this for 2.3?  If so, there is a bug in either doc
> or interpreter.

Python 2.3 does the same.

Python 2.3 (#1, Aug  5 2003, 14:13:25)
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  0 >>> zip(**(),)
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    zip(**(),)
            ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
  1 >>> def foo(**a,): pass
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    def foo(**a,): pass
               ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
216. If the patient be a freed man, he receives five shekels.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From raizor at rtcwonline.com  Sat Sep  6 04:02:25 2003
From: raizor at rtcwonline.com (raizor at rtcwonline.com)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 08:02:25 -0000
Subject: Unreachable
Message-ID: <20030906080225.9428.qmail@amerihosting.com>

This email address is unreachable. It has been closed.






From mirko-lists at zeibig.net  Wed Sep 17 07:40:29 2003
From: mirko-lists at zeibig.net (Mirko Zeibig)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 11:40:29 GMT
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 at 08:45 GMT, Marc Boeren <M.Boeren at guidance.nl> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> For example with the string: "hello, %(word1) %(word2) !" and the
>> dictionary: {"word1" : "python", "word2" : "lovers"} the final string
>> would be: "hello python lovers"
> 
> You mean 
> 	base_string % dictionary
> 
>>>> "hello, %(word1)s %(word2)s !" % {"word1" : "python", "word2" :
> "lovers"}
> 'hello, python lovers !'
> 
> Notice the trailing s in %(word)s!

Especially useful together with the locals() function, which returns a
dictionary of locally defined variables:

def foo():
    a = "Hello"
    b = "World"
    print "%(a)s %(b)s" % locals()

foo()

Regards
Mirko



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sun Sep 14 20:06:31 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:06:31 -0300
Subject: datetime: How to get diff between 2 dates in month units?
In-Reply-To: <56819.199.169.240.132.1063397952.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
References: <56819.199.169.240.132.1063397952.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <20030915000631.GB27698@ibook>

> I have a lot of monthly time series data.  I need to be able to compare
> two dates and get the number of months that they are apart.
[...]

If you can rely on external modules, you may use mx.DateTime for that.

> >>> d1 = datetime.date(2002,1,1)
> >>> d2 = datetime.date(2001,12,1)
> >>> diff = d1-d2
> >>> diff.days
> 31

This would be:

>>> d1 = DateTime.Date(2002,1,1)
>>> d2 = DateTime.Date(2001,12,1)
>>> diff = DateTime.RelativeDateDiff(d1,d2)
>>> diff.months
1

[...]
> >>>firstdate = newMonthlyDatetime(2002, 5)
> >>>Nov2002 = newMonthlyDatetime(2002, 11)
> >>>diff = Nov2002 - firstdate
> >>>diff.months
> 6

And this would be:

>>> firstdate = DateTime.Date(2002, 5)
>>> Nov2002 = DateTime.Date(2002, 11)
>>> diff = DateTime.RelativeDateDiff(Nov2002, firstdate)
>>> diff.months
6

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net




From mpeuser at web.de  Sun Sep 21 11:55:07 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:55:07 +0200
Subject: Tkinter cursor question
References: <vmq6a09ffl4c4@corp.supernews.com> <bkjrmp$o7t$05$1@news.t-online.com> <vmrer01p6r726f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bkkhie$jkj$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"Gary Richardson" <garyr at fidalgo.net>
> [snip]
> >
> > @sourceName
> >     This form only works on Windows, and will load a Windows system
cursor
> > (.ani or .cur) from the file specified in sourceName.
> >

> Michael,
>
> Thanks for your reply. I am using Windows so I guess I'm out of luck as
far
> as designing my own cursor. I tried the form that is supposed to work with
> windows but no luck with that either. The code below produces the error
> message:  TclError: bad cursor spec "@CROSS_M.CUR". I also tried using the

Gary,
seems it totally ignores the leading @ - always looking for a built-in
name....
I used bitmaps some time ago (...,bitmap='@file',.. ) this worked fine.
According to the Tcl/Tk documentation, .., cursor=... should use the routine
Tk_GetCursor. However this is not available when trying to call Tcl directly
by root.tk.call('Tk_GetCursor',...)

Sorry, no more ideas....
Kindly
MichaelP





From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 18 11:09:35 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:09:35 +0200
Subject: How to inheritance overwrite non virtual?
References: <slrnbmjhjr.gud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <bkchst$q0r$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Axel Straschil wrote:

> I've tryed (in K2) something like:
>  def bestCaptionlong(self):
> return KObject().bestCaptionlong()
> which I expected to be like KObject::bestCaptionlong() in
> C++, but it doesn't work ;-(

The following will do:

class Derived(Base):
    def method(self):
        return Base.method(self) # call base class method

(Of course you need not override the method if the body of the derived class
only calls the base class method.)

Peter



From rnia at algonet.se  Tue Sep 30 09:51:48 2003
From: rnia at algonet.se (.r!kard)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:51:48 +0200
Subject: intercepting smtp email
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <blc1ss$p54$1@green.tninet.se>

Or maybe you can find it here: http://twistedmatrix.com

Basically i think you have to write your own SMTP-server if nobody else
hasn't done it already...

.r!kard


".r!kard" <rnia at algonet.se> wrote in message
news:blc1kt$ooe$1 at green.tninet.se...
> I'm no star at this but maybe you can check the code in
>   http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
>
> .r!kard
>
> "Scott Hathaway" <scott at hcsprogramming.com> wrote in message
> news:c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2 at posting.google.com...
> > I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
> > traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can do
> > something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
> > outgoing traffic, specifically.
> >
> > Any help is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott
>
>





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 11:48:05 2003
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:48:05 +0100
Subject: Money data type
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D014B2921@intrepid>

> From:	Batista, Facundo [SMTP:FBatista at uniFON.com.ar]
> Are you trying to tell me that if I work always with float, and in the
> final step (reaching the user's eyes or check in the printer) I
> "represent" it with str (for example) or with "%.5f", I get no rounding
> errors?
 
See <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000710.html> and
<http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/000911.html>.

Basically, if you use floats, you'll get rounding errors.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning,
TriSystems Ltd.
--LongSig




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.




From ryan at ryanswift.com  Thu Sep  4 11:15:28 2003
From: ryan at ryanswift.com (Ryan Swift)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 08:15:28 -0700
Subject: Extracting TIFF from emails
References: <bc258e66.0309030604.1fdc0e8c@posting.google.com> <87y8x654qk.fsf@pobox.com> <bc258e66.0309031100.4c9b2810@posting.google.com> <87llt5fpcc.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bc258e66.0309040715.47714f7@posting.google.com>

Apparently I am getting the email as a list, but I don't know of a way
to do it otherwise.  I have read through the docs on www.python.org
for the email module, but there is not much on reading mail, rather it
focuses more on creating it.  Below is my *complete* code (I am fairly
sure I am importing more than I need to), is there a way to get a
message from the server in a form other than a list?  I assume this
can be done with the email module but I must be too dim to find it. 
Can you provide a link to information about the standard library email
module?  Once again, thanks.

import poplib, os, mailconfig, email, mimetools

mailserver = mailconfig.popservername    
mailuser   = mailconfig.popusername
mailpasswd = mailconfig.poppassword
dir = os.curdir

def connect(mailserver, mailuser, mailpasswd):
    print '\nConnecting...'
    server = poplib.POP3(mailserver)
    server.user(mailuser)
    server.pass_(mailpasswd)
    return server


if __name__ == "__main__":
    server = connect(mailserver, mailuser, mailpasswd)
    try:
        (msgCount, msgBytes) = server.stat()
        print '\nThere are', msgCount, 'mail messages, total',
msgBytes, 'bytes'
        print 'Retrieving message', msgCount, '\n'
        (hdr, msg, octets) = server.retr(msgCount)
        email_file = open('email.txt', 'w')
        email_file.write(message)
        email_file.close()
    finally:
        server.quit()
    print 'Closed connection.'

    fp = open('email.txt')
    filemsg = email.message_from_file(fp)
    fp.close()

    for part in filemsg.walk:
            print part.get_content_type()



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 30 16:38:19 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:38:19 -0400
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
References: <62e9c66e.0309301227.20505db6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vnjqek499ddi2d@news.supernews.com>

"Dominik Kaspar" <dokaspar at student.ethz.ch> wrote in message
news:62e9c66e.0309301227.20505db6 at posting.google.com...
> maybe my question was badly formulated. i give it a new try:
> why does the following program give the output "0 0" and not "1 0"?
> why does it loop forever? and how could that problem be fixed?

Because your use of 'running' in the two methods are both
***local*** variables. They are neither instance nor
class variables.

to make them instance variables, they need to be
    self.running.

To make them class variables, they need to be
    Server.running.

Does this help?

John Roth

>
> import threading
>
> class Server(threading.Thread):
>     running = 0
>
>     def run(self):
>         running = 1
>         while running:
>             print "do something here..."
>
>     def stop(self):
>         running = 0
>
> server = Server()
> server.start()
> print server.running        # should print "1"
> server.stop()
> print server.running        # should print "0"





From gherron at islandtraining.com  Tue Sep  9 15:56:25 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 12:56:25 -0700
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake>
References: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <200309091256.25160.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Tuesday 09 September 2003 12:35 pm, Marco Herrn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am writing a program that has to instantiate a class from which I
> don't know the name until runtime. That leads to two problems for me.
>
> 1. How to do the import? I didn't find a way to give a string to the
>    import statement.
>
> 2. How to write such code to instantiate?

The imp module has what you want.  Here are two small protions of the manual:


find_module(name[, path])
  Try to find the module name on the search path path.
   ... much more ...


load_module(name, file, filename, description)
  Load a module that was previously found by find_module()
   ... much more ...

Enjoy,
Gary Herron






From stefan.fleiter at web.de  Mon Sep  8 12:07:38 2003
From: stefan.fleiter at web.de (Stefan Fleiter)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:07:38 +0200
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
In-Reply-To: <Po36b.291$w41.85@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
References: <mailman.1062538564.1958.python-list@python.org> <bj4crt$1uq$1@news.web.de> <PRr5b.22979$NC2.17137@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <bja60k$pe5$1@news.web.de> <Po36b.291$w41.85@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bji9gb$7sq$1@news.web.de>

Hi,

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

>>Done, see:
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=800796
> Okay, it's fixed now.

Thanks a lot!
Greets, Stefan




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 25 13:41:17 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:41:17 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <1NFcb.62896$gV.2762@news2.central.cox.net>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote ...
> Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.

Looks good. But

[...]
>    It crashes when applied to an infinite iterator.
[...]
Hmm. My little brain is having difficulty imagining anything that won't.
What am I missing?

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From opo at opo.com  Thu Sep 11 11:03:44 2003
From: opo at opo.com (franck)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:03:44 +0200
Subject: GET and POST
References: <xc%7b.1420$95.169@newsr2.u-net.net> <mailman.1063289827.17272.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l908b.1425$95.197@newsr2.u-net.net>

i know how to do a GET.
:) i have this example.
my contact tell my i must do a get AND a post :/

GET to fuse param et POST for the others.

dont know how do that.

"Jeremy Jones" <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> a ?crit dans le message news:
mailman.1063289827.17272.python-list at python.org...
> * franck (opo at opo.com) wrote:
> > HI,
> >
> > this is my code
> > params = {}
> >
> > params['fuseaction'] = '*****';
> > params['user'] = '***';
> > params['password'] = '**********';
> > params['num_card'] = '******';
> > params['date_of_birth'] = '****';
> >
> > params = urllib.urlencode(params)
> > f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com",params)
>
>
> According to the urllib documentation (I've never used urllib, only
> httplib), all you have to do is change:
>
> f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com",params)
> to
> f = urllib.urlopen("http://bidule.com?%s" % params)
>
> Here is the example from the documentation for a GET (found at
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node415.html):
>
> >>> import urllib
> >>> params = urllib.urlencode({'spam': 1, 'eggs': 2, 'bacon': 0})
> >>> f = urllib.urlopen("http://www.musi-cal.com/cgi-bin/query?%s" %
params)
> >>> print f.read()
>
> I haven't whether this works or not, so I take no responsibility for any
> damage caused by this code ;-)
>
> Jeremy Jones
>





From jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy  Fri Sep 19 09:35:23 2003
From: jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy (JZ)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:35:23 +0200
Subject: Webware and memory problem!
Message-ID: <tf1mmv019lp8cucqvcgtf5v9qi2svv4n36@4ax.com>

How much memory WebKit should normally take??? As I can see, every
WebKit daemon takes over 40MB (sic!) of RAM. WebKit lauches 10 daemons
during startup, so I need over 400MB for WebKit alone! Is it normal or
I have something wrong configured? (used RedHat7 and Webware CVS
2003-09-12)

I compared the same with Windows XP Pro workstation. It takes only
10MB and uses only one process! Top ammount of used memory is 17MB...

--
JZ



From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Sep  7 04:06:59 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 08:06:59 GMT
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com> <bjdm21$nr2$1@wheel2.two14.net> <mailman.1062908472.9309.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DGB6b.24532$hE5.902016@news1.tin.it>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
   ...
> That said... if Darwin and biology are interesting to you, I can highly
> recommend reading some Steven Jay Gould.  Anything, really, but the more

Me, I'd recommend "Dawkins vs. Gould: Survival of the Fittest",
by Kim Sterelny.  You do, of course, need some primary material
as well -- undoubtedly "The selfish gene" for Dawkins -- I'm not
sure for Gould, as:

> technical stuff includes _Ontogeny and Phylogeny_ and his masterpiece
> _The Structure of Evolutionary Theory_.  Slightly ligher than those, but

...unfortunately I haven't read "Structure" yet (I do have it on order).

[Oh btw -- Sterelny's book is special order from Amazon -- thanks be for
the existence of Barnes & Noble, which has it available for immediate
shipping, way cheaper than a special order would take at Amazon --
long live competition!!!]

Gould is a great writer, even though in his later works he often gives in to
unstructured rambling (I can of course well sympathize with THAT 
temptation:-) -- Dawkins, IMHO, isn't, even though in "The selfish gene" he
does manage (by a mix of his powerful ideas and his dry direct prose) to
be truly riveting.  My personal choice for Gould's masterpiece is "The
Mismeasure of Man".  If you do want to see (essentially) Dawkins' ideas
presented by a truly great writer, try Matt Ridley -- "Genome", "Origins of
Virtue", "Red Queen", all superb writing (haven't read "Nature via Nurture"
yet -- I'll wait for the paperback).  Not to be confused with *Mark* Ridley,
who also writes (quite worthwhile books and antologies) in exactly the
same field, mind you.


Alex




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 16 10:59:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:59:30 -0400
Subject: irritating problem
References: <20030915150042.22749.00001062@mb-m23.aol.com> <3F6621C3.56525D6B@engcorp.com> <bd2emvs3iudboip3pnrnoaid1in4bmgld6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F672552.58EBD6C@engcorp.com>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:32:03 -0400, rumours say that Peter Hansen
> <peter at engcorp.com> might have written:
> 
> [snip]
> >(isn't Windows wonderful?! Truly those at
> >Microsoft are masters of good user interface design!)
> [snip]
> 
> Playing the devil's advocate, an old joke about intuitive interfaces
> comes to mind (a recent reference:
> http://groups.google.com.gr/groups?selm=pan.2003.03.26.19.06.08.459736%40deadspam.com
> :)

Cute.  That must explain the prevalence of so much "nipple-ware" on the web
these days... ;-)

-Peter



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Thu Sep 11 03:52:32 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:52:32 +0200
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python
References: <mailman.1063224795.24414.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjp95u$nn3$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

vald wrote:
> I wonder if there is any module for rendering True
> Type Fonts in Python ? I need to create a GIF files
> with nice antialiased text and I'm unable to find
> any module with such functionality.
> 
> Sincerely,
>  K.
> 

If you want something a bit lighter than PyGame or PIL, there's also gd with 
gdmodule:
http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html
http://www.boutell.com/gd/

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Sep 25 20:48:33 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 10:38:33 +0950
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbn74ch.s2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 25 Sep 2003 16:50:49 -0700, Stephen Ferg wrote:
> But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this
> is a myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward
> or the backward slash as a pathname separator.

I highly doubt it, since the forward slash (or just "slash") is the
conventional Windows command-line option indicator, analogous to the
hyphen on Unix.  To accept it as the start of a filename would break
zillions of existing systems, for no appreciable benefit to Microsoft.

Python automagically determines the path component separator, os.sep,
and uses it for most file path transformations to and from the internal
language's '/'.

    <http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.1/lib/os-path.html#l2h-1552>

Is this perhaps what gives you the impression?

-- 
 \     "I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So |
  `\        I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance."  -- Steven |
_o__)                                                           Wright |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From lists at webcrunchers.com  Sun Sep  7 17:26:30 2003
From: lists at webcrunchers.com (John D.)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 14:26:30 -0700
Subject: CSV Module questions.
Message-ID: <v03110701bb8150436f38@[192.168.0.2]>

I'm trying to understand how to use the "csv" module.  I assume this means "comma seperated values" in files.

I quote from the docs...


http://python.org/doc/current/lib/csv-fmt-params.html
"When creating reader or writer objects, the programmer can specify a string or a subclass of the Dialect class as the dialect parameter"

Ok,  that's fine and dandy,  but how do I specify it when I want to create
a "writer" to write a simple dictionary to a file,  and specify how it's to be written?

Example (from the docs):

# Just some stupid dictionary with key same as value.
someiterable = {'john d': 'john d', 'fred': 'fred'}

# make the writer.
writer = csv.writer(file("some.csv", "w"))
for row in someiterable:
    writer.writerow(row)

Ok,  so this made the file,  but the file contents are thus...

$ less some.csv
j,o,h,n, ,d
f,r,e,d

which is NOT what I want.   Obviously I have to probably make a "Dialect"
or something like that.   But how do I do that?    Obviously,  since Python severely lacks acceptable example code....   why didn't they just put in a few examples of how to do this?   I certainly cannot figure this out.

Here is what I want...

"john d", "john d"
"fred", "fred"

How to I write to a file in this way?    Is is possible?

John






From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 10:23:45 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:23:45 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <3F67CDEF.3030202@sci.fi>
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org>
        <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net>
        <16231.25317.741455.556170@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <3F67677E.9030408@sci.fi>
        <16231.28433.221154.160576@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <3F67CDEF.3030202@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <16232.28273.275407.968048@montanaro.dyndns.org>

(I'm tiring rapidly of this topic.  This is my last post.)

    >> The current none_dealloc() will rightfully complain if myfunc() is
    >> called enough times, because Py_None's reference count will go to
    >> zero.
    >> 
    Harri> Yeah, but on the other hand, the application crashes less if it
    Harri> is not checked! :-)

I know you have a smiley there, however, I want the system to do its best to
crash for me and not wait until my customer has it.

    Harri> There are 2001 explicit calls to Py_INCREF(Py_None) in C API
    Harri> source code. These are unnecessary, but the implicit calls are of
    Harri> course fine.  Removing the explicit calls would make Python
    Harri> slightly faster, just about enough to compensate the required
    Harri> changes in deallocation mechanism as least.

How do you know that?  Have you tested anything yet?

    Harri> But if the reference count is negative for allocated objects,
    Harri> then you already have a bug. I mean that the count is never
    Harri> negative when the application works correctly. The object is
    Harri> already deallocated when the count reaches zero, so checking for
    Harri> negative counts is (usually) superfluous. Python gets slightly
    Harri> faster if you just remove this check (from release version).

Much of the stuff in there for reference counting is there to help you when
the application doesn't work correctly.

    >> That's as it should be, because any statically allocated object
    >> should have a reference count of at least one.

    Harri> Why? It has no meaning, because the object was never allocated,
    Harri> and it can't be deallocated.

Because it is an object.  Structurally and semantically it should behave the
same as all the other objects in the system.

    Harri> Yeah, getting closer to that I guess. But I should not be doing
    Harri> it just yet, I have other projects, but this just keeps bugging
    Harri> me.

It's your itch.  You have to be the one to scratch it.

Skip







From link0937 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 04:49:20 2003
From: link0937 at hotmail.com (Link)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:49:20 +0800
Subject: About Python's C API
References: <bkb0lu$dig$1@news.seed.net.tw> <mailman.1063850265.9616.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkbrlr$krp$1@news.seed.net.tw>

Jeff,

First, I need to say you are so smart.
I really appreciated your help that of course good idea to solve about my
extraction's prblem.

Following your advise, i obtained  the value of variable from Python in
developing C/API.

By the way, if I had added the statement  "Py_DECREF(m); m = NULL;",
It would be crash during running program.
So that need to remove this statement.

Shall I ask you any problem if no this statment at here?
Any trouble will be happened?

With best regards.
Link

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net>
???????:mailman.1063850265.9616.python-list at python.org...
> Let me start by saying I'm not a pro with the C API of Python.
>
> With PyRun_SimpleString(), everything takes place in the special
> __main__ module:
>     PyRun_SimpleStringFlags(const char *command, PyCompilerFlags *flags)
>     {
>     PyObject *m, *d, *v;
>     m = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
>     if (m == NULL)
>     return -1;
>     d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
>     v = PyRun_StringFlags(command, Py_file_input, d, d, flags);
>     if (v == NULL) {
>     PyErr_Print();
>     return -1;
>     }
>     Py_DECREF(v);
>     if (Py_FlushLine())
>     PyErr_Clear();
>     return 0;
>     }
>
> So, to get the attribute x from __main__, convert it to a string, and
> printf() it, you'd use this sequence [all untested]:
>     PyObject *m, *d, *x, *s;
>
>     /* m is a "new" reference */
>     m = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
>     if (m == NULL)
>     return -1;
>     /* d is a "borrowed" reference */
>     d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
>     Py_DECREF(m); m = NULL; /* Done with m -- decref and set to NULL */
>     x = PyDict_GetItemString(d, "x")
>     /* x is a "borrowed" reference */
>     if (x == NULL) {
> PyErr_Print();
> return;
>     }
>     /* s is a "new" reference */
>     s = PyObject_Str(x);
>     if (s == NULL) {
> PyErr_Print();
> return;
>     }
>     printf("x: %s\n", PyString_AsString(s));
>     Py_DECREF(s); s = NULL; /* Done with s -- decref and set to NULL */
>
> If you're programming in C++, you might benefit from checking out
boost.python at
>     http://boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html
> I'm not actually a boost.python user, but I've heard good things about it.
>
> Jeff
>





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 04:51:55 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:51:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F763B045EE7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Tobiah <toby at rcsreg.com> wrote in 
news:0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a at news.teranews.com:

> I can't seem to do this in python without gagging:
> 
> foo = getmore()
> while foo:
>      process(foo)
>      foo = getmore()
> 
> 
> Is that what ppl do?  

I don't know about ppl, but Python programmers have a variety of ways of 
structuring this code. The one that I think is simplest, but is often 
overlooked is to use the builtin function 'iter'. It won't exactly replace 
the code you have above, since your loop terminates as soon as getmore() 
returns anything false (None, 0, False, '' would all terminate it). If 
however you know the exact value to indicate termination (I'll guess 
getmore() returns None when its done), you can write your loop:

for foo in iter(getmore, None):
    process(foo)

If instead of a simple function call you had a more complex expression (say 
getmore took a file as an argument), you might consider a lambda:

for foo in iter(lambda: getmore(aFile), None):
    process(foo)


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Sep  1 18:05:58 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 17:05:58 -0500 
Subject: exception question
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623305FA3759@mail.hebmex.com>

[Gon?alo Rodrigues]
>  
>  I may still harass the python-dev folks as suggested though ;-)
>

exceptional harrasment?

:-)

-gustavo



Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
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este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From avner at skilldesign.com  Tue Sep  2 14:14:05 2003
From: avner at skilldesign.com (Avner Ben)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:14:05 +0200
Subject: Pyhton 2.3 does not work
References: <3f504a34$1@news.012.net.il> <48j5lv8hcfj9rfbd9dbn2g5p2gctlpdb1o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f54d016$1@news.012.net.il>

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:48j5lv8hcfj9rfbd9dbn2g5p2gctlpdb1o at 4ax.com...

> Did you download 2.3-compatible versions of py2exe and wxPython?  wxPython
> includes several DLLs.  Those DLLs include references to a specific
version
> of Python.  If you reinstall the 2.2 version of wxPython, the DLLs will
try
> to load python22.dll.

1. I tried invoking python before installing any other Python-related
software.

2. (Anyway), The versions of py2exe and wsPython are correct. The fact is
that they do work now!

    Avner.





From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Tue Sep 23 05:59:18 2003
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 11:59:18 +0200
Subject: How to load the DLL with PyRun_SimpleString?
References: <bkou2f$i5l$1@news.seed.net.tw> <u1xu7rhk3.fsf@online.no> <bkp3oh$je3$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <ueky7n7ux.fsf@online.no>

"Link" <link0937 at hotmail.com> writes:

> Exactelly, the named example is .DLL  and put it on the sys.path.

Rename the .dll to .pyd.

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad



From kbilsted at hotmail.lala.com  Fri Sep 12 05:54:33 2003
From: kbilsted at hotmail.lala.com (kasper graversen)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:54:33 +0200
Subject: looking for MOP documentation
Message-ID: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>

hello there.

I've been searching the web (including the www.python.org :) but in vain of 
finding recent documentation for the python MOP. I see some information on 
python 1.5---is this the best and still valid information today?

sincerely
 \kasper

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From oystein at gnubg.org  Sun Sep 21 15:28:46 2003
From: oystein at gnubg.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D8ystein_Johansen?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:28:46 +0200
Subject: Download to client from a cgi script?
Message-ID: <J_mbb.24430$os2.339970@news2.e.nsc.no>

Hi,

(This question may be stupid, but I just can't find the answer...)

How can I make the browser downlaod a cgi script from /cgi-bin/. 
Obviously I can't make a link to it with <a=href="/cgi-bin/script.cgi>, 
since tha script will be executed then.

I see how Lutz in PP2E prints the script on the screen, but I want the 
user to get the "save file" message box?

Same thing. What about a binary file? Printing a binary file with 
getfile.cgi from PP2E is just silly. The surfer must be promped to save. 
So, what I want is a script like getfile.cgi, that downloads insted of 
prints the file.


(Maybe this is more a HTTP/HTML question than a Python question...)

Clueless,
-?ystein




From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Thu Sep 11 11:08:35 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:08:35 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
Message-ID: <000701c37876$95712480$0c02a8c0@Arts>

>I believe that passing a law will cause more >deaths to take place, I will
oppose the law >even if personally I wouldn't mind owning a gun >for
protection.

Funny.

If guns were outlawed, historically, in the U.S. I probably would also
oppose changing that law to make them legal, in the absence of evidence that
there would be a net savings of lives.

It is the disallowance of something that historically has been allowed -
tacitly, or explicitly, it matters not -  that I react to in part.

I am not a philosophical libertarian. But perhaps have some strong ideas
about the managment of change, and where change should be targetted, and how
change needs to be justified.

Here, it is not an issue of first impression - and there is good reason to
not treat it as such.  Very good reason.

A slip on a *very* slippery slope.

Art





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 19 13:25:49 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:25:49 -0500
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <16235.15389.112517.732400@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Mark> I did more investigation into my previous problem and what happens
    Mark> is that my text file has \r for representing a new line instead of
    Mark> a \n.

Trying to process a file generated on a Mac, perhaps?  Try opening the file
with universal newline mode:

    f = file("somefile.txt", "rU")

Skip




From falseaddy at here.org  Wed Sep 17 21:54:35 2003
From: falseaddy at here.org (Dfenestr8)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:54:35 +0900
Subject: Mandrake Linux 9: Why isn't bsddb working?
References: <bka45f$q6rg1$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063820907.15026.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkb385$r8u2n$1@ID-119882.news.uni-berlin.de>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:47:53 +0000, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     >>>> import bsddb
>     >> Traceback (most recent call last):
>     >>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     >>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", line 40, in ?
>     >>     import _bsddb
> 
>     >> What might I have done wrong, and/or what should I do to fix it? 
> 
> You probably don't have the necessary -devel RPM installed.
> 
> (If you don't want direct replies, choose a more obviously invalid email
> address.  If you do want replies, choose a more obviously valid email
> address.  "home.org" is a valid domain.  "not at home.org" is a bit vague.)
> 
> Skip

That might have been true while I was using the rpm package.

But currently I'm using the source package Python-2.3.tgz.



From kern at ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Sep 30 12:47:02 2003
From: kern at ugcs.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:47:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Wavelet package available?
References: <2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <blcc26$gu6$1@naig.caltech.edu>

Gez <gez_75 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a wavelet package available for Python?
> This package should at least have the Daubechy wavelet.

At SciPy '03, Chad Netzer gave a presentation about his wavelet package which he
intends to submit to `SciPy`_. I don't think it's available yet (supposed to be
Real Soon Now (TM)), but you can get his email from his `web site`_.

.. _SciPy: http://www.scipy.org
.. _web site: http://vision.arc.nasa.gov/personnel/netzer/netzer.html

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at ugcs.caltech.edu

"In the fields of Hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
                     -- Richard Harter



From uce at ftc.gov  Mon Sep 22 17:25:34 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:25:34 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings
In-Reply-To: <3F6E5104.FECC742A@engcorp.com>
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <3F6CB062.E127F970@engcorp.com> <qhadna08dpEsmvOiXTWJig@comcast.com> <3F6E5104.FECC742A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <OfSdnUA-9edb9fKiU-KYgA@comcast.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Gordon Airport wrote:
> 
>>Peter Hansen wrote:
>>
>>snip good points that I suspect could be handled with a fairly simple
>>regex
> 
> 
> I'd argue the point, but I guess until you try it, we'll never know. <wink>
> 

Okay, I've tried it and I'll chalk it up to my inexperience with regular 
expressions and sed, but I don't have anyhting to show. The general 
strategy , though, is to make several passes; first escape all inner 
strings, then convert all outer string delimiters (now the only ones not 
escaped) to the immutable symbol. I feel like I'll wake up at 2 a.m. 
with the answer, but I'll post now anyway.
(Assuming you /can/ say "every instance of A between B's" in regex...you 
could always do it with a python script)

<snip>
> 
> 
> Apparently it served its purpose quite well.  The main problem before
> the PEP and vote was that there was no PEP to point to when somebody
> asked about it, so you could say "asked and answered... will not happen".
> 
> Now there is, and the few times the issue has come up since, someone
> has fairly quickly pointed to the PEP each time, avoiding lengthier
> discussion.
> 
> -Peter

Fair enough. Maybe I will submit a PEP for this, I've never looked into 
what's involved.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Sep 24 04:44:32 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:44:32 +0200
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <oA6cb.1241$RW4.485@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bkrlhk$oq2$1@sea.gmane.org>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Another approach is to turn the XML into a DOM but I
> have much less experience with that.  (I get confused with
> the DOM API every time I try

the DOM API is designed for consultants, not for humans or
computers.

here's the elementtree version, btw:

s = """<record>
<code>1cg2</code>
<chain>a</chain>
<settings>abcde</settings>
<scoreInfo>12345</scoreInfo>
<targetSeq name="1onc">blah
</targetSeq>
<alignment size="335"/>
<target>WLTFQKKHITNTRDVDCDNIMS</target>
<align> :| ..| :    .  |  .                         |.  .  :</align>
<template>QKRDNVLFQAATDEQPAVIKTLEKL</template>
<anotherTag>foobarfoobar</anotherTag>
<yetAnotherTag>barfoobarfoo</yetAnotherTag>
</record>"""

from elementtree.ElementTree import XML

for node in XML(s):
    print node.tag, "=", repr(node.text)

(more here: http://effbot.org/zone/element-index.htm )

</F>







From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Sep 21 12:36:26 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:36:26 +0200
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com> <bkkevq$rdj$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkkk44$qee$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

>> So it seems there is *no* way to catch the error.
>> I think you should file a bug report.
> 
> Where/How do I do that?

http://www.python.org/dev has an outside link to Bug Tracker leading to a
Sourceforge page where you can submit a short description of the bug.

Have a look at the list of bugs both to see if your bug has already been
submitted by others as well as for example submissions.


Peter



From python-list at hazen.net  Wed Sep 10 04:00:48 2003
From: python-list at hazen.net (John Hazen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:00:48 -0700
Subject: CGI -- generating images -- \x0A always added!
In-Reply-To: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com>; from M-a-S on Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 03:05:51AM +0000
References: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20030910010048.A31866@gate.hazen.net>

Before the program exits, you can set sys.stdout.softspace to 0, and that 
will prevent the pending newline from printing.

In the interactive mode:
>>> print "foo",
foo
>>> # note the extra newline, so the prompt is on its own line.
...
>>> print "foo",;sys.stdout.softspace = 0
foo>>> # no newline


But the way which is probably most appropriate for dealing with
binary data (it should also make the '-u' unneccessary) is:

>>> sys.stdout.write("foo")
foo>>> # no newline...

HTH-

John
(john AT <my domain (see from address)>)

On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 03:05:51AM +0000, M-a-S wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm trying to use Python for generating (or copying) images.
> The environment is Python 2.3/Apache 2.0.43/Windows XP.
> I couldn't make Apache use mod_python (anybody can help?
> Apache complains "The requested operation has failed"
> if I add LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so)
> so I use the CGI mechanism. This is the sample:
> 
> #!C:\Apps\Python\python.exe -u
> 
> img = open( 'a.gif', 'rb' ) # OK, don't make the image, just use the file
> if img:
>   data = img.read()
>   img.close()
> 
> print "Content-type: image/gif"
> print
> 
> print data,
> 
> # EOF
> 
> Everything's good, and '-u' helps not to add '\x0D' for each '\x0A'
> inside the data. BUT it seems that the last print ALWAYS adds LF
> '\x0A' in spite of the final comma. How can I fix that? Thank you.




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 13:14:41 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:14:41 -0500
Subject: How to override distutils install?
In-Reply-To: <GECdnSDQHtUrKsWiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
References: <mailman.1062772580.1097.python-list@python.org>
        <GECdnSDQHtUrKsWiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <16216.50305.770449.841950@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    amk> Supply a cmd_class argument to setup(), like this:

    amk> setup(name = ...,
    amk>       cmdclass = {'build_py': qx_build_py},
    amk>      )

Much appreciated.   I'll see if there's something missing in the docs or if
I just missed what is already there.

S




From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 06:11:01 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:11:01 GMT
Subject: How to pass parameter to a module?
Message-ID: <Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174@twister.southeast.rr.com>

I'd like to parametrize a module. That is, to set and pass
some values into the module, while it is being imported.
I tried this:

  # sub_1.py -- main program
  extern = "OK"
  import sub_2
  print sub_2.noway # prints 'no extern' :-(
  # EOF

  # sub_2.py -- parametrized module, parameter is the 'extern' var
  try:
     noway = extern
  except:
     noway = 'no extern'
  # EOF

You can guess, it doesn't work.
How can I pass the parameter? Can I?
M-a-S





From soundwave56 at yahoo.ca  Mon Sep 22 18:14:26 2003
From: soundwave56 at yahoo.ca (Hank)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 15:14:26 -0700
Subject: string.rstrip
Message-ID: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

I have this problem with string.rstrip

Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import string
>>> mystr = "test.txt"
>>> mystr = string.rstrip(mystr, ".txt")
>>> print mystr
tes

The last 't' was stripped. Is this fixed or documented anywhere? it
works for other cases, but this one seems to give me a weird result.

Thanks



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep  4 15:49:45 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:49:45 +0200
Subject: Strange problem with xml.dom.minidom Text object (Python 2.3)
In-Reply-To: <RmM5b.383$h5.114@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>
References: <RmM5b.383$h5.114@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <bj850i$j2c$07$5@news.t-online.com>

Hans Nowak wrote:

> Anybody knows what's going on here?  I didn't see this as a bug in the 
> BugTracker.  Am I doing something wrong?

Yes. Your are not supposed to create Text objects (or any other DOM 
nodes) by calling the implementation class. Instead, you should use the 
DOM interfaces to obtain new nodes. In the specific case, call 
.createTextNode on the Document object. See the documentation for details.

Regards,
Martin




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 18 09:07:37 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:07:37 -0400
Subject: Setting environment variables
References: <cscab.12804$g4.258706@news1.nokia.com> <3F6959B3.6A19FF3B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3F69AE19.397FB2D1@engcorp.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> Sami Viitanen wrote:
> 
> > Is there any other way to set variables than os.putenv().
> >
> > Putenv doesn't actually put any values to actual system variables..
> >
> > I'm trying to set CVSEDITOR variable automatically from script
> > so that user wouldn't have to set that him/herself. CVS can't use
> > variable
> > set with putenv().
> 
> Yep, and this is a feature, at least in Unix operating systems.
> Subshells cannot directly affect the operating environment of parent
> shells, and shouldn't try.  (One can do such things indirectly, but they
> require the cooperation of the parent shell, such as sourcing the output
> of a program, which is not an uncommon approach to the problem.)  I
> don't know if there's any way for Windows applications to affect parent
> environments, but I doubt it.

Short of bizarre hacks that are generally unacceptable, no there's no
way to do it even under Windows.

Under both operating systems, the best approach is to contrive a way
for another script to be executed *after* the application runs.  That
other script either accesses data that is generated by the application,
or is actually itself generated by the application as needed, and because
it's a script (e.g. .BAT or .CMD for Windows, .sh etc. for Unix) it 
is able to change the shell.  (And I know you already knew this, EMF, 
I was of course responding for others. :-)

-Peter



From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Fri Sep  5 13:52:36 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:52:36 +0200
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <opru1fxyrqdd8opo@news.vo.lu>

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 06:43:06 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:


> Perhaps, but I would have been happier to see a bunch of suggestions for 
> Mr. Useldinger to read, without the negative
> comments about others' suggestions.  Just doesn't feel right
> to me.  Call me mildly ticked, is all.
>
> -Peter

"Zen [...]" is definitely on my list ;-)

Regards,
-PU





From grante at visi.com  Sat Sep 27 18:48:38 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 22:48:38 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064540736.16016.python-list@python.org> <YAZd/ks/Kjpc089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <3f7613c6$0$182$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <YAZd/ks/Kjpc089yn at the-wire.com>, Mel Wilson wrote:

>>>I have a question that is not directly Python-related.  But I thought
>>>I'd ask the most erudite group that I know... :-)
>>>When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
>>>character?

> Internally, the routines in the API have accepted '/' as a path
> separator for a long, long time.  It's the command-line
> processors that kick up a fuss.

And that could always be fixed by running a real shell a-la MKS,
Cygwin, etc.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Hello. I know
                                  at               the divorce rate among
                               visi.com            unmarried Catholic Alaskan
                                                   females!!



From other at cazabon.com  Wed Sep 10 01:13:32 2003
From: other at cazabon.com (Kevin)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:13:32 GMT
Subject: CGI -- generating images -- \x0A always added!
References: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <0qy7b.933399$3C2.21274722@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

This works for me (save to a StringIO object first):

###############################

#!/usr/bin/python -u

# imports

import Image, sys, string, os, cgi, StringIO

# blah blah blah... prepare the image from the query string...

if os.path.isfile(filename):

    try:

        image = Image.open(filename)

        # save the image to stdout

        sfp = StringIO.StringIO()

        image.save(sfp,'jpeg')

    except Exception, errorMsg:

    print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"

    print "Error occurred while processing Image (%s)<p>\n\n" %filename

    print "%s<p>\n%s" %(Exception, errorMsg)

    sys.exit(-1)

else:

    print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"

    print "Error: requested image file does not exist: %s" %filename

    sys.exit(-1)

# if you got here, everything went ok, and the image is in spf, just send it
home

try:

    print 'Content-Type: image/jpeg\n' # Python adds the extra line feed to
separate the header

    sys.stdout.write(sfp.getvalue())

    sys.exit(0)

except Exception, errorMsg:

    # something went wrong in writing to sys.stdout?

    print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"

    print "Error Printing Image and Header to sys.stdout\n<p>\n%s<p>\n%s"
%(Exception, errorMsg)

    sys.exit(-1)













From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep  4 03:51:56 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 07:51:56 GMT
Subject: strings
References: <y2z5b.81796$bo1.42513@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <waC5b.15908$R32.537232@news2.tin.it>

Scribe wrote:

> Hi
> Somewhat new to Python and would appreciated some help in selecting the
> best builtins to achieve what I want.
> I pass a string to a function, it is either
> empty
> spaces
> alpha and digits
> or
> a decimal ie. 5,789.88
> if it is a decimal I want to return the number without the commer any
> others return 0.
> Should be simple or maybe I am.
> Any help apreciated.

def scribefun(astring):
  try: return int(float(astring.replace(',','')))
  except ValueError: return 0

This assumes you want to return e.g. 5789 for '5,789.88', i.e.,
an integer truncating the "decimal" (otherwise omit the int()).

Only possible issue is if the "alpha and digits" specifically
include an 'e' as the only "alpha", which builtin float() would
take as an indication of exponential notation; so for example
this would return 100, not 0, for '1e2'.  If this is a problem
(unclear from your specs) it ain't all that hard to fix of course.


Alex




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Sep 19 08:04:37 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:04:37 +0200
Subject: Access to Win API
In-Reply-To: <0c58d500ac94b27d7f8ff87a2a59f6e1@news.meganetnews.com>
References: <d541d61d12758a2b45ea1de78809beac@news.meganetnews.com>
	<mailman.1063964485.26108.python-list@python.org>
	<0c58d500ac94b27d7f8ff87a2a59f6e1@news.meganetnews.com>
Message-ID: <3F6AF0D5.6080506@ghaering.de>

Ladv?nszky K?roly wrote:
> Thanks for your help. I remember once I tried a Python cookbook sample code
> that included ctypes but now 'import ctypes' does not work.
> Should ctypes come together with the 2.3 installation?

It's available here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ctypes

-- Gerhard




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Sep 24 09:52:45 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:52:45 -0400
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
In-Reply-To: <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk>
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <20030924135245.GA30855@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Klaus Alexander Seistrup]
> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> 
> > In the less usual case you want concurrency between Python and the
> > forked shell command,  for only later checking if the forked process
> > is done, the usual way is to send a zero signal to the child using
> > `os.kill()'.  The zero signal would not do any damage in case your
> > forked process is still running.  But if the process does not exist,
> > the parent will get an exception for the `os.kill()', which you may
> > intercept.  So you know if the child is running or finished.
> 
> This will yield a false positive and potential damage if the OS has
> spawned another process with the same pid, and running under your uid,
> as the task you wanted to supervise.

Granted in theory, yet this does not seem to be considered a real
problem in practice.  To generate another process with the same pid, the
system would need to generate so many intermediate processes that the
process counter would overflow and come back to its current value.  The
`kill(pid, 0)' trick is still the way people seem to do it.

Do you know anything reasonably simple, safer, and that does the job?

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Sep 11 22:07:33 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:07:33 -0400
Subject: Modifying the {} and [] tokens
References: <mtqdkv8sdrmgrn02vugnbpuhtjsgel3ohb@4ax.com>
 <QfC1b.3575$Ej6.427@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
 <pdvdkv8i0j2lfd041bqlgo0d84sv9kjoh4@4ax.com>
 <ckjekvcm6pf4hhq59ro08p20gk6lf9himp@4ax.com> <bi7rpt$sv9$1@naig.caltech.edu>
 <km4fkv8qbbge3mvckv5gsim9amq59qvohb@4ax.com>
 <UlGdnSPexu1eO9qiXTWJkQ@comcast.com>
 <e6bfkvsnro96db74j8en20tuqm0tml23lr@4ax.com> <oQhU/ks/KXNd089yn@the-wire.com>
 <Xns93F084E3691FDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <lpSY/ks/KzeX089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <Xns93F084E3691FDduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>,
Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:
>mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote in news:oQhU/ks/KXNd089yn at the-
>wire.com:
>>[ ... ]
>> where additive_identity is a magical value that's 0 working
>> with numbers, [] with lists, () with tuples and '' with
>> strings.  In real life I'd catch the key errors instead.
>
>FWIW, Your 'magical value' isn't actually terribly magical, it is easily
>defined with a few lines of Python:
>
>>>> class AdditiveIdentityClass:
>	def __coerce__(self, other):
>		return type(other)(), other

Cute!

        Thanks.         Mel.



From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Sep 19 19:22:48 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:22:48 GMT
Subject: Python API
References: <pan.2003.09.19.22.10.30.395537@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <cdMab.225$KJ4.161@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <pan.2003.09.19.22.10.30.395537 at cornell.edu>, RR wrote:
> Hello, where is nice site that would have python API documentation?
> In particular I am trying to find documentation on the function
> string.find

In addition to the library docs, you can also get help in interactive mode

>>> help(''.find) # help on the find method
>>> import string; help(string) # help on the string module

Dave Cook



From theller at python.net  Tue Sep 16 15:51:00 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:51:00 +0200
Subject: distutils on win32 with link.exe -- use dlls?
References: <mailman.1063735042.3212.python-list@python.org> <u65jssiml.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
 <Xns93F8DC80D7DDEcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <isnsikbf.fsf@python.net>

Chris Liechti <cliechti at gmx.net> writes:

> the current gcc in cygwin/mingw can link directly against DLLs (it creates 
> the imp lib on the fly) one reason more to use free software ;-)

Can these implibs be used by MSVC?

Thomas



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep 25 09:50:11 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:50:11 GMT
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it>

Peter Hansen wrote:
   ...
> Alex' slides were interesting, but I think they might reflect a subtle
> trend away from Python's traditional treatment of programmers as
> consenting adults, with all the concern about newbies and the hints
> that such a dangerous feature will be abused to no end.

Python has always struck a nice balance between the "trust the
programmer" principle (e.g., no complicating the language to make
some things 'private', and the like) and the need to enhance
programmer productivity, among other ways, by not offering "red
herrings" that may LOOK like they'd be good for typical purpose
X but actually aren't -- to understand the latter half of this
contention, consider the cases where the latter principle was NOT,
in fact, fully respected (__slots__, locals()[somename]=23,
reduce, ...).  I've seen enough programmers (and then some) wrest
with threading, and come up with all the architecturally-wrong answers,
to be fully aware that "raising an exception in another thread" would 
fit the "red herrings case" to a tee; I considered that the only
real downside of the proposal, and so, I think, did all the group
that was discussing it.  So, when Guido came up with the idea of
putting the feature in the C API only, there was much cheering --
just the right amount of distance away from "typical programmers"
to avoid a flood of puzzled questions here and to help at python.org!-)


> The slides also suggest that there are almost no use cases whatsoever
> for such a feature, though admitting there might, just barely, be enough
> to merit adding it as a non-newbie C-only API which one has to jump
> through hoops (or use ctypes :-) to access.

I and Just canvassed widely at Europython, looking for people to
suggest more use cases, and nobody came up with anything that stood
up to examination beyond our basic use case of "debugging possibly
buggy (nonterminating) code, in cases where we just can't run the
possibly buggy code in the main thread and delegate a separate
watchdog thread to the purpose of interrupting the main one" (note
that a secondary thread raising an exception in the main one WAS
already going to be in 2.3 anyway, since IDLE 1.0 uses that).  I
kept buttonholing people with exactly the same question at OSCON
and elsewhere, trying to beef up my docs, but again, nothing came up.


> I can think of several use cases right off the top of my head, one
> of them being while running automated unit and acceptance tests,
> to ensure that a test involving threads will complete (generally
> with a failure in this case) even if the code is broken and the
> thread cannot be terminated.

Yes, yet another subcase of that one and only use case we kept
coming up with (just like my own immediate application for the
feature, and Just's, were two other such subcases).  If you can
come up with use cases that are NOT just restatements of this
one with fake beards, now THAT would be interesting (and might
perhaps see the functionality exposed in module threading in
Python 2.4:-).  As things stand, it still seems to me that the
need to write debugging (including testing:-) frameworks that
deal gracefully with buggy multi-threaded code (or cannot use
the main thread to run possibly buggy code because of other
strange constraints, e.g. related to GUI's or embedding) is
rare enough to warrant keeping the functionality a safe way off
from most programmers, though, clearly, real enough to warrant
_having_ the functionality around for those rare but important
special cases.


Alex




From hjonck at gims.com  Tue Sep  9 01:11:22 2003
From: hjonck at gims.com (Hardy Jonck)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 22:11:22 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
> Pythonistas,
> 
> 
> So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
> list.  I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
> prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
> copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
> 
> Yours, David...

I recently had a look at Jedit and must say I am impressed. Python
support via Jython 2.1 - but the extensibility and philosophy that
comes with Jedit is amazing. Would be nice to have more development in
it to make it an even better Python editor that it is now. It has
advanced features, very good code folding, excellent searching, class
browser, integration with Ctags that works great with Python, regular
expression cross project search and replace, sftp, ftp, CVS
integration (GREAT) and integrated DIFF, XML and XPATH, and tons of
other very handy plugins to do 100% hands off mouseless efficient
editing.

Have a look at www.jedit.org and install version 4.1 stable. Install
Jython from the plugins directory and make shure to set the prefrences
so that it pre-loads Jython and classes. Then install Sidekick and
tags. Set Folding mode to Sodekick and that almost completes the
setup. Now install gruntspud from the plugins directory and you have
CVS with full integration into the editor.

Only thing missing is full code completion like PythonWIn offers...

Sincerely,
Hardy Jonck



From jblazi at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 29 15:19:26 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:19:26 +0200
Subject: Using TCP/IP
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.29.19.19.26.610000@hotmail.com>

How do I find out my own IP number (using Pythoi of course). And how do I
send/receive data to/from andother TCP/IP socket (of known ip number)?

I mean: which module do I have to use for that?

TIA,

JB


----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---



From mwh at python.net  Thu Sep 18 10:28:18 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:28:18 GMT
Subject: "tuple index out of range" side effect of C extension??
References: <mailman.1063891199.12260.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h33ceukwf0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> writes:

> I'm seeing a bizarre situation where IndexErrors are being thrown with
> "tuple index out of range" error strings.

[snippety]

> Has anyone ever encountered this sort of bizarreness while working with a
> C extension?

Usually, this is the infamous "non-NULL return with exception set",
i.e. the extension module sets an exception but then fails to return
NULL to let the interpreter know about it.

It's a shame you can't build a debug build, as that would help find
out if this really was the problem...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I have gathered a posie of other men's flowers, and nothing but
  the thread that binds them is my own.                   -- Montaigne



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Tue Sep 23 21:02:00 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 10:52:00 +0950
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbn1sdo.s0.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 23 Sep 2003 18:04:33 -0700, mensanator wrote:
>>>> print len(`2**64`)
> 21
> 
> But the correct answer is 20, not 21. The reason the
> answer is wrong
> 
>>>> print `2**64`
> 18446744073709551616L
> 
> Why is the "L" there? I thought "L" isn't used anymore?

You want to perform two operations; make them explicit.

    # Convert number to string representation
    foo = "%d" % ( 2**64 )
    # Get length of string
    print len( foo )

As you've pointed out, a number has no inherent string representation
(and thus no length); choose one explicitly (e.g. by string formatting).

-- 
 \        "I bought a dog the other day. I named him Stay. It's fun to |
  `\     call him. 'Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay!' He went insane. |
_o__)      Now he just ignores me and keeps typing."  -- Steven Wright |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Sep  3 08:57:09 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:57:09 -0500
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
In-Reply-To: <bj4dhh$24s$1@news.web.de>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD454A@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com> <mailman.1062542167.17108.python-list@python.org> <bj4dhh$24s$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <20030903125709.GC29526@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 11:50:41AM +0200, Stefan Fleiter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Jeff Epler wrote:
> 
> >No, it's apparently deliberate that slices don't hash (so that
> >{}[1:2] raises an error).  I think that slice(None).__hash__ is from
> >object.__hash__, but this is rightfully(?) ignored by PyObject_Hash()
> >which looks at tp_hash (NULL for slice objects) and tp_compare (non-NULL
> >for slice objects) with the result that the object is treated as
> >unhashable.
> 
> So, should I write a bugreport or not?
> Are you sure it is "rightfully ignored" or not?

I'm sure that multiple python-list/c.l.python readers claim it is a feature
that hash(slice(None)) raises an exception.

http://google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.1058757391.658.python-list%40python.org

Jeff




From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 21:07:39 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:07:39 +0100
Subject: Saving Numeric arrays to file?
References: <bl2ktf$8lq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bl2nkr$srm$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

Of course, the problem is reasonably obvious (doh!).  But I still need a
workaround, so I can (ideally) save an array as a single line of text.

Duncan





From Monda.Laszlo at stud.u-szeged.hu  Wed Sep 10 12:39:07 2003
From: Monda.Laszlo at stud.u-szeged.hu (Monda.Laszlo at stud.u-szeged.hu)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:39:07 +0200
Subject: Threading troubles
Message-ID: <1063211947.3f5f53abceb92@www.stud.u-szeged.hu>

Hi All,

I'd like to write an application which uses intensively threads and I've got 
some troubles.

I want to control the execution of all threads from the main thread. I mean 
stopping, continuing and terminating other threads. However as I've read in the 
libc manual, there is no way to specify signal handlers for individual threads. 
Actally I don't even know how could I signal any threads from Python at all. Any 
workaround would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
    Laci

ps.: Please CC: me, I'm not on the list.


-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/




From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 25 14:38:23 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:38:23 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <ad8tfdwv.fsf@python.net>
 <DdacnR-12Jpma--iU-KYvA@comcast.com>
 <mailman.1064501497.18527.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k77w1zog.fsf@python.net>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:

> venster.pycb (82k)
> main.pycb (15k)
>
> Under 100KB is not bad for a GUI app! :) 
>
> The .pycb format is basically ZIP + AES encryption, and pycb uses the new 
> import hooks in 2.3 to handle it. The encryption is just to keep honest 
> people out; anybody with the right combination of smart and bored could 
> figure out how to circumvent it.

I have also experimented with importing encrypted .pyo files, but my
short experiments so far didn't give sufficient speed. Only the a simple
string.translate() or the rotor module with one permutation didn't slow
down the import by several orders of magnitude. What decryption rates do
you get?

Thomas



From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep 22 08:54:56 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:54:56 GMT
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com> <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <7h3he359eda.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > Of course, there's a sense in which Common Lisp just doesn't have much
> > syntax, but Python's hardly overloaded with it, either.  *The objects*
> > or to be more precise the *types* of objects themselves are what
> > determine really happens, and that's precisely the sort of thing
> > metaclasses let you play with.
> 
> I guess this might get down to the question of whether Python is
> more about the syntax, grammar, keywords, and such, of the language
> or more about the standard types of objects which are provided with
> it.  In my mind, it's very much the former and very little the
> latter, but maybe that's just me.  Dicts and lists and integers are
> interesting and all, but I'm not sure it's their behaviour which
> makes Python Python.

Fair enough.  I can see your point of view, I just don't (completely)
agree with it :-) You could have something with similar syntax,
keywords, etc to Python but semantics like C, and it would still be
horrible (IMHO).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  In case you're not a computer person, I should probably point out
  that "Real Soon Now" is a technical term meaning "sometime before
  the heat-death of the universe, maybe".
                                     -- Scott Fahlman <sef at cs.cmu.edu>



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep  9 07:36:00 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 07:36:00 -0400
Subject: Get the date of last modification of a file
References: <rE27b.45940$R32.1458201@news2.tin.it> <3F5CBAB8.F8888E3@engcorp.com> <UNf7b.48792$R32.1584881@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F5DBB20.26FE6D30@engcorp.com>

Manuel Bastioni wrote:
> 
> > > It's possible using only a built-in module?
> >
> > os.path.getmtime()
> ...
> 
>  >>> import os, stat
>  >>> s = os.stat("c:/tmp")
> 
> os isn't built-in :-(

The question was strange, since requiring a true builtin for
this is pointless, so I interpreted the question as though
you were a newbie who didn't use the term "built-in" to mean
what it usually means in Python.  I figured you just wanted
to use a module that came with standard Python instead of 
requiring a separate download.

So since you've clarified that, I'll be interested to see the 
answer to Erik Max Francis' question, too. :-)

-Peter



From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Sep 24 08:21:29 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:21:29 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
In-Reply-To: <bkrv6t$hq8$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org>
 <bkcgfm$gu1$1@news.island.liu.se> <mailman.1064300795.6408.python-list@python.org>
 <bkrv6t$hq8$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309241519240.28659@sampo.csc.fi>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Pierre Quentel wrote:

> Have you tried :
> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
> or
> socket.gethostbyname_ex(socket.getfqdn())[2]
>
> Normally the result should be different if you're connected or not

Thanks for the tip! I tried this and the second line freezes execution
when I have unplugged my Ethernet cable. So again, I need a timeout on my
socket. This is not available in Python 2.2.2. I reckon I need to try
Python 2.3.

/Mickel G




From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Thu Sep  4 14:44:00 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:44:00 -0400
Subject: Strange problem with xml.dom.minidom Text object (Python 2.3)
Message-ID: <bj80rv$ocf$1@sea.gmane.org>

[Not sure if this message made it, so I'm resending it... apologies if it 
appears multiple times.]


Howdy y'all,

The following works in Python 2.2.2:

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from xml.dom.minidom import Text
 >>> t = Text("foo")
 >>> t
<DOM Text node "foo">

So far, so good.  We have production code that uses the Text class by 
initializing it with a string, and it works well.  However:

(C:\work\uq\ticket_parse) $ \Python23\python.exe
Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from xml.dom.minidom import Text
 >>> t = Text("foo")
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: this constructor takes no arguments

So I thought, maybe this was disallowed for some reason.  What happens if we 
create the object without arguments?  It works, but when doing a __repr__, the 
object lacks the .data attribute, which is odd:

 >>> t = Text()
 >>> t
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "C:\Python23\lib\xml\dom\minidom.py", line 956, in __repr__
     data = self.data
AttributeError: Text instance has no attribute 'data'

Anybody knows what's going on here?  I didn't see this as a bug in the 
BugTracker.  Am I doing something wrong?

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Tue Sep  9 13:36:19 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:36:19 -0400
Subject: A couple of OOPython questions
In-Reply-To: <3915d531.0309090812.6a4db47e@posting.google.com>
References: <3915d531.0309090812.6a4db47e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5E0F93.8020604@zephyrfalcon.org>

Alexy Khrabrov wrote:

> Reading python books feels a bit like reading Perl books -- although
> OO is there, some fundamental questions are not illuminated, and then
> OO comes after scripting or text, as in the Cookbook!  E.g., a = b is
> a deep copy.  How do you do shallow copy?  What are the equivalent of
> copy constructors?

"a = b" is not a copy at all.  Well, I suppose you could say it copies a 
reference, but that's about it.  Assignment never copies objects, whether deep 
or shallow.

For "real" copying, use the copy module, or the .copy() method if available.

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sat Sep 27 17:20:24 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:20:24 GMT
Subject: a little OT: how to handle this email list?
References: <mailman.1064323412.13237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9403ED6B8C5A1JanC@213.118.75.228>

"Matthew Wilson" <mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com> schreef:

> I subscribe to the python mailing list with an IMAP mailbox.  I use
> squirrelmail to check my mail.  This is a great list, but it is
> definitely high volume.  My python folder fills up with several
> hundred emails every day.  How do the rest of you handle all the
> traffic on this list?  Do you delete everything at the end of every
> day? 

Usenet: <news:comp.lang.python>

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From anand_soliton at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 17:43:04 2003
From: anand_soliton at yahoo.com (Anand)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 14:43:04 -0700
Subject: Python C extension: Value different if passed as list than if passed as number
Message-ID: <3f5dc178.0309101343.256bb7f5@posting.google.com>

I have a C extension to a dll function.

static PyObject *_wrap_SetTxCommandRegister(PyObject *self, PyObject
*args) {
    PyObject *resultobj;
    int arg1 ;
    int arg2 ;
    int arg3 ;
    char *arg4 = (char *)"Python" ;
    err result;
    
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,(char
*)"iii|s:SetTxCommandRegister",&arg1,&arg2,&arg3,&arg4)) goto fail;
    result = (err)SetTxCommandRegister(arg1,arg2,arg3,(char const
*)arg4);
    resultobj = PyInt_FromLong((long)result);
    return resultobj;
    fail:
    return NULL;
}

Now here is what i pass from python
test = [0xff,0xaf,0xf0]
newint = test[0]
SetTxCommandRegister(0xff,test[1],test[2])
print test

arg1 = 0xaf if i pass either test[0] or newint
arg1 = 0xff if i pass constant like what i have shown in the code

What am i doing wrong?

Thanks in advance
Anand



From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Sep  1 05:28:17 2003
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:28:17 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Sep  1)
Message-ID: <vl649hcqvo7v1a@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "All that rigid type safety and data hiding is like wearing army
boots on the beach: nothing can bite your toes, but golly don't it feel
good to just toss 'em and run barefoot."  -- David Pinn

QOTW: "... this is Usenet. No matter what you write, somebody is going to
interpret it as a proposal to cook and eat babies." -- Grant Edwards

QOTW: "I assume you mean instance.getthing() because writing
self.getthing() has unclear connotations." -- Michael Peuser


Discussion
----------
    Tim Peters explains the virtues of  having the documentation in CHM
    files instead of HTML.  Future Windows installers will ship with
    CHM but the HTML will still be available:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1062285905.31279.python-list at python.org>
    
    Alex Martelli explains how format numbers with thousand separators:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8oH3b.15528%24d66.362183 at news2.tin.it>
    
    Gregory Trubetskoy muses whether SpamBayes could work as a children's content
    filter.  Paul Patternson already tried it with some success:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=86b54b6d2ef425ba>
    
    Mike Fletcher provides links to excellent presentations on
    metaclasses by Dr Mertz, Alex Martelli, and Michele Simionato:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=27G3b.8368%24aG6.267050 at news1.tin.it>
    
    Istvan's Albert's effort wrap Perl's approximate string matching
    triggers a thread revealing a number of existing solutions in Python:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=1c68b7033d7fe239>
    
    Jeff Epler questions authority and defies the powers-that-be by
    implementing the rejected PEP for Generator Comprehensions:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=7b7d6f43f032b4d0>
        
    Stan Graves gives timeless advice to a young, aspiring computer scientist:
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3d6c6fc3.0308261246.32db39d5 at posting.google.com>
    
    Every week people come up with ideas for changing the language.
    This week was no exception:
        
        * Allow dictionary addition with the + operator
    
        * Time machine exception handling (offered humorously by yours truly)
    
Releases
--------
    PyXR 0.9.3, generates cross referenced HTML pages from python source files
        <http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/python/pyxr.html>
    
    Slimp3 0.1, interface to the SLIMP3 MP3 player
        <http://www.andreas-jung.com/SLIMP3/slimp3.tar.gz>
    
    SC-Track Roundup 0.6.1, an issue tracking system
        <http://roundup.sourceforge.net/>
    
    MyHDL 0.3, Python as a hardware description & verification language
        <http://jandecaluwe.com/Tools/MyHDL/Overview.html>
    
    numarray-0.7, an array processing package modelled after Numeric
        <http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy/>
    
    KirbyBase 1.4, plain-text, flat-file database management system
        <http://www.netpromi.com/files/KirbyBase-1.4.zip>
    
    Munkware 0.1, transactional and persistent queueing mechanism
        <http://sourceforge.net/projects/munkware>
    
    Wing IDE 1.1.10 commercial integrated development environment for Python
        <http://wingide.com/wingide/demo>
    
    cx_Freeze 2.2, utilities for freezing Python scripts
        <http://starship.python.net/crew/atuining>
    

========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From mark at hahnca.com  Mon Sep  8 13:52:16 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:52:16 -0700
Subject: win32com: need help with opening mapi session error
Message-ID: <kl37b.22782$n94.10196@fed1read04>

After great help from this group, I figured out what I needed to do to get
an email client to create a message and open it up on the screen with
win32com.  Now I'm having trouble getting the first line of code to work
(why don't I just have you all do my project for me :)

This ...

import win32com.client
session = win32com.client.Dispatch('MAPI.Session')

... is giving me the error ...

None: (-2147221005, 'Invalid class string', None, None)

I've also tried "Mapi.Session" and "MAPI.Session.1".

Can someone give me a hint what is going on here?





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 10:22:53 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:22:53 +0100
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130364ACE8@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz> <mailman.1064550995.10314.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <86i8nvsabho0ficdjr8qtigg5kn82l2hjk@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:34:44 +1200, "Tony Meyer" <ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz>
wrote:

>>   * None of the standard command shells (CMD or COMMAND) will 
>> accept forward slashes.  Even the "cd ./tmp" example given in 
>> a previous post fails.
>
>Not true:
>
>"""
>Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
>(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
>
>C:\>cd /spambayes
>
>C:\spambayes>cd ./spambayes
>
>C:\spambayes\spambayes>
>"""
>
>This is with cmd.exe in XP (as above).  command.exe does try and use it as a
>switch.  I have no idea about older versions, nor do I care <wink>.
>
>=Tony Meyer
>

Yes, but...


Microsoft Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195]
(C) Copyright 1985-2000 Microsoft Corp.

E:\>f:

F:\>cd /dev
The system cannot find the path specified.

F:\>cd \dev

F:\Dev>


What Windows XP is doing is very recent - even Windows 2000 does not
accept forward slashes in that context.

Fortunately, while 'cd' seems to interpret '/' as part of a filename,
'md' knows better and won't let you create a folder with a '/' in the
name.

The first place I started noticing forward slashes working was in
explorer - it had to support them for web pages I guess, and command
line options weren't an issue, so supporting them for filenames wasn't
difficult - and probably helped in contexts such as FTP which uses
unix-based filename conventions (you don't see it in explorer of
course but there is still presumably a hidden FTP 'command line'
session in the background). It was probably just a matter if sharing
the name parsing code as much as possible between contexts. But this
is pure guesswork - I wouldn't be surprised if this is wrong.

I have also noticed that at least some of Windows APIs accept forward
slashes as path separators. I can't remember what exactly, though - it
could just be something like the file selector dialog.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 11:54:47 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 16:54:47 +0100
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <87ad9kpn08.fsf@pobox.com>

Jules Dubois <bogus at invalid.tld> writes:

> On 03 Sep 2003 13:58:00 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:
> 
> > The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
> > learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).
> 
> That's the only Python book you think worth having?  Or buying?

As a general Python book, yes (having or buying).  The standard
library docs are good enough that I've never had a need for anything
else.  The Cookbook is good for getting a sense of good Pythonic
style.

People have said good things about some of the Python reference books,
though.  In the past -- and quite possibly now -- the books by Beazley
and Lundh were two that were often recommended, and the more recent
O'Reilly Nutshell has also been praised.


> My "Software Engineering" class votes again tomorrow on the language we use
> for our group project.  Tuesday's vote was Java (8 votes), Python (5), C++
> (3), and Smalltalk (1); Thursday's vote will be between Java and Python.  I
> get the opportunity to learn one or the other in a week.

Why not ignore the result and dictate the language choice yourself?
(benevolently, of course ;-)


John



From simon.dean at Sun.COM  Wed Sep  3 14:29:28 2003
From: simon.dean at Sun.COM (Simon Dean)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:29:28 +0100
Subject: Replacing Element Nodes
Message-ID: <20030903182928.GA4621@skull>


Hi,

I'm trying to replace Element Node's in 'dom' with Element Node's from 
'domFromRef'. The Element Nodes are selected as a result of processing XML ref's 
present in 'dom'.  

At the moment, 

print replacementElementNode 
PrettyPrint(replacementElementNode)

prints the Element Nodes which I want to use in my replaceNode function e.g.,

<Element Node at 853a04c: Name='LC_COLLATION' with 0 attributes and 5 childern>

<LC_COLLATION>
  <Collator>
  <CollationOptions>
    <...etc>
  <CollationOptions>
</LC_COLLATION>


What should I call now in 'def replaceNode' to replace the elements ? 

My program is below, any help much appreciated.

cheers,
Simon.


from    xml.dom.ext.reader      import  PyExpat
from    xml.dom.ext             import  PrettyPrint
from    xml.xpath               import  Evaluate
import  sys

sys.getdefaultencoding()
reader = PyExpat.Reader()
dom = reader.fromStream(sys.stdin)

def reconstructDom(dom):

        refs = Evaluate('/Locale//*[@ref]', dom.documentElement)
        for i in range(len(refs)):
                elementName = refs[i].nodeName

                for parent in dom.getElementsByTagName(elementName):
                        if parent.nodeName == 'LC_FORMAT':
                                attFileValue = parent.getAttribute('ref')
                                attCurrValue = parent.getAttribute('replaceTo')
                                getFormatElementBlockFromFile(elementName, attFileValue, attCurrValue)
                        else: 
                                attFileValue = parent.getAttribute('ref')
                                reader = PyExpat.Reader()

                                clone, elementName, domFromRef = getParentElementBlockFromFile(elementName, attFileValue, domFromRef
) 
                                newDom = replaceNode(clone, elementName, domFromRef)



def getParentElementBlockFromFile(elementName, attFileValue, domFromRef):

        domFromRef = reader.fromUri('/home/sd/data_3/' +attFileValue +'.xml')

        for parent in domFromRef.getElementsByTagName(elementName):
                clone = parent.cloneNode(1)
                return clone, elementName, domFromRef 


def getFormatElementBlockFromFile(elementName, attFileValue, attCurrValue):
        pass


def replaceNode(clone, elementName, domFromRef):

        # replace Element Node from domFromRef with Element Node from dom and return dom to higher object 
        replacementElementNode = dom.importNode(clone, 1)
        
	print replacementElementNode 
        PrettyPrint(replacementElementNode)

        #return newDom 


# main()
reconstructDom(dom)

 




From http  Sun Sep 14 14:02:02 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 14 Sep 2003 11:02:02 -0700
Subject: Java Checked Exceptions
References: <8ef9bea6.0309140709.14fc9712@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xy8wr45b9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

hungjunglu at yahoo.com (Hung Jung Lu) writes:
> Python and C# actually are quite similar in that they both use
> unchecked exceptions, and exception handling in these languages are
> nice to use. I just don't know why Java had to embark on the
> checked-exception experiment.

I don't know either, but I think it's not a trivial question.  It
could be that if you're distracted a lot by constantly adding more
exception checks at the high levels of your program, then it's because
your program isn't dealing with exceptions enough at the lower levels.



From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Sep  5 21:13:42 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 01:13:42 GMT
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
References: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com> <vlgs65mifq5i38@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1062788290.24102.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <axa6b.64498$0u4.46413@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <mailman.1062788290.24102.python-list at python.org>, John Hunter
wrote:

>>>>>> "Cameron" == Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> writes:
> 
>    Cameron> experience inclines me to the former.  I've found pyGTK
>    Cameron> too immature under Win*.  The people who claim success
>    Cameron> with it are, from what I can tell, those who benefit from
>    Cameron> consider- able prior GTK+ work.  --
 
> I haven't found this.  I've written two applications in pygtk2 and one
> plotting library that run with no alterations on linux and win32, and
> I had no prior GTK+ experience, or any GUI experience for that matter.
> 
> As for immaturity, the gimp runs under windows, and I *think* pygtk
> can do just about anything gtk can do, hence it's a pretty
> sophisticated toolkit under windows.  What aspects do you find
> immature?

I have to concur with Cameron on the immaturity of Gtk under win32.  I've
run into at least one severe bug that affects my application only on win32:

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118575

Another thing I've noticed is that the "window expander" handle (not sure
what it's actually called) in the Gtk status bar doesn't work on win32.

And Gtk just seems slower and less responsive on win32 (particularly on
win98).

Also, there is only one guy covering win32 bugs, so they don't get fixed
very quickly.  

I suppose if you don't push it very hard then it may be OK.

> And glade-2 is a nice RAD tool that runs under linux and win32.

I love glade and would not want to do without it, but it's funky and buggy.
For example there's a maddening bug that causes any objects you've set for
signals for menuitems to be lost if you do *any* editing of the menu; also
for no reason that I can fathom glade will not let you add accelerators for
some menu items.  These are old bugs, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like
there's anyone doing active maintenance on the stable branch (the main
developer left.) 

That said, the first thing I do when evaluating a new toolkit is look to see
if it has anything roughly equivalent to glade/libglade.

Dave Cook



From halloleo.PLEASE at NOSPAM.gmx.net  Mon Sep  1 23:06:00 2003
From: halloleo.PLEASE at NOSPAM.gmx.net (Leo)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:06:00 +1000
Subject: beep is not genrated by python (was Re: just a beep)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062462663.24438.python-list@python.org>
References: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <000701c370e7$892ed550$5401a8c0@borg.fielden.com.au> <mailman.1062462663.24438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj11dv$rl9$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi there

neither print chr(7) nor print "\a" works, when you execute the script 
directly under windows. (and executing under emacs doesn't work either.)

it seems that the beep is not generated by python itself but by the 
terminal emulation.

so again: is there a more robust and terminal independent way to 
generate a beep?

cheers, leo

Nick Welch wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 10:17:02AM +1000, DG wrote:
> 
>>print chr(7)
>>
>>:)
> 
> 
> print "\a" # too
> 
> :)
> 




From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep  6 03:40:25 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 07:40:25 GMT
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it>

Michael Peuser wrote:

> Hello Alex,
> this is one of the most exciting topics to discuss, however _slightly_
> off-topic.

Nothing affecting Python as directly as this subject is off-topic here.
You should see the really OT threads on this group (tolerated with more
friendliness than just about everywhere else, mostly).

> Generally I agree with your reasoning. However I disagree with
> some conclusions. We all know peace is the best possible state but there
> is war......

...therefore clearly some in fact think that war is preferable to peace
under some conditions (given that remaining in peace always requires
_some_ concession to the potential adversary; it's far from surprising
that in certain cases those concessions may be regarded as a heavier
price to pay than war).


>> Moore's Law is working in favour of higher level languages even harder
>> than it's working in favour of free but highly efficient OS's.
> 
> There are two aspects:
> (1) More power for same price - this works in favour of 'complex software'
> (2) Same power for less money - this works in favor of 'cheap software'

And software is developed more cheaply in higher level languages than
in lower level ones.  Therefore, both [1] and [2] work in favour of HLL's,
which let you develop more complex software for the same price or the
same software (software of the same functional complexity, but more
often than not somewhat hungrier of hardware resources) faster & cheaper.


>> > will pay $200 for an operating system when the hardware has the same
>>
>> Most Linux use of commercial significance is not happening on such
>> incredibly cheap systems, but rather on reasonably substantial servers
>> (or sometimes even mainframes -- IBM _has_ invested a lot in Linux:-).
>> The issue you mention MAY play a role in ensuring a nice for Lindows
>> (and other desktop-oriented versions of Linux), but the server side
>> is where Linux got its first foothold.
> 
> This is just a scaling. The main argument is the same. The software
> related parts of the total cost of ownership have today become a major
> concern.

In this economic climate, many firms and governments are indeed
"penny pinching" -- not caring so much about total cost of ownership
over the years, actually, but about THIS quarter's bottom line,
THIS fiscal year's deficit.

But were you to reason in terms of proportion of cost, scaling does
not really apply.  Take the pricing that my provider, aruba.it,
offers for lease-based hosting.  The SW component: if you want
Linux it's free, if Windows server 2003, 15 EUR/month.  The HW
and bandwidth components can go from 30 EUR/month for a risibly
configured Celeron (!!!!) memory-starved disk-starved server which
will survive only because it gets so little bandwidth you won't
even be able to play pong on it, to about 500 EUR/month for a
really well configured server for heavy load with huge bandwidth.

So at the cheapest level, it's 30 with Linux, 45 with Windows;
clearly here the SW price does have some importance.  But at good
server levels, the prices are 500 or 515: only a crazed penny-pincher
would consider THAT 3% difference to be a decision factor.

Key issue is, SW price does not scale up linearly with the power
of the HW you apply it to -- nowhere near that, even though my
ISP's policy of "one price fits all" may be extreme.  So, even
though there ARE some crazed penny pincher around these days (and
for good reason, no doubt), which don't look at % factors but
only at absolute possibilities of shaving half a penny here or
there, this isn't as crucial a factor as you make out.

When it IS crucial, it tends to apply to ALL cost factors.  Even
if the license cost of some SW may be a ridiculously small part
of what it costs to operate, say, a municipal government, that
does not matter: most other cost factors are fixed -- the govt
"cannot" just lay people off, at least it cannot politically even
where it legally might (and in Europe it's also a legal problem),
so it saves on toilet paper, paper clips, cost of compilers, or
ANY other factor where it may, no questions asked.  In THIS kind
of situation, the zero-price factor is just as important for a
development environment as for an operating system or the like.


>> Not necessarily.  If common programmers only knew machine language,
>> it would still be cheaper to use any available high-level language,
>> say COBOL, even if you needed to supply training for it (it's not
>> hard to teach COBOL to somebody who knows assembly, anyway -- the
>> reverse is harder).
> I am on your way; maybe they more probably would be trained for some
> "macro language". This is no 'paradigm change'. Most C++ programmers (I
> know what I say!) write C programs.

History proves you are wrong: in practice, COBOL was what took over
the market for business application development, *NOT* macro assembly
as you claim would "more probably" happen.  A paradigm change, to be
sure, but it's what DID win historically.  By ignoring history, as
you're doing, you may not be doomed to repeat it, but you sure do
handicap grievously your chances to predict the future.

(And no crap about "marketing" being responsible for it, please: in
the '60 the _only_ heavily marketed programming language was IBM's
PL/I... and it lost to not-heavily-marketed COBOL and Fortran, as
its technical complexity was just too high on too many issues, in
terms of both programmer training and productivity, and implementation
complexity and resulting bugginess).


>> Similarly, using Python can lower costs even
>> if you factor in training costs (again, teaching Python to good
>> Cobol programmers is quite easy -- other higher-level languages may
>> not be _quite_ as cheap in these terms, admittedly, but still the
>> economics aren't _hugely_ different).
> 
> This argument is valid for:
> - OOP ("Reuse will reduce costs")
> - RAD
> - XP
> - Design-for-testing
> - Rigid configuration control
> - state any new thing you like
> 
> The fact that  a better world is possible does not mean you get it.

Those practices which do increase productivity do tend to get used
more: OOP, RAD and configuration control are heavily prevalent today,
and XP and test-driven design are making great strides.


> Python is by no means a "perfect" alternative to  - lets say: DOT-NET and
> #  - the advantages are difficult to see for persons in power or - I
> mentiones the tool costs - are of minor relevance.

Python may get in "sneakily" -- because programmers love it or because
a desperate pennypincher has no alternative to saving "minor-relevance"
money as it can't attack the major-relevant budget items anyway -- and
proves itself enough that even "persons in power" (which aren't _always_
total idiots) see its advantages.  See the "Python Success Stories"
for many examples.  As the evidence accumulates, Python also starts
getting in non-sneakily, by executive decision rather than by the above
means -- and keeps proving itself.

And Moore's Law is absolutely crucial to this relentless trend.

There many be no "perfect alternative", nor other examples of
perfection in this sublunar world.  Cars aren't *perfect* alternatives
to horse buggies, either.  They don't need to be: they're cheaper and
more powerful by a sufficient margin to have taken over.


> I should as well like to discuss your aspect of programmer's productivity.
> This is an important  factor. However all investigations show that
> programmer's productivity is an unmeasurable quantity. It certainly has to

Once again, you are totally wrong, and moreover, you are wrong in an
assertion that you choose to express in the broadest, unqualified terms.

Lutz Prechelt's study, the best-known example of empirical investigation
of programmer productivity, show Python and Perl ruling the roost, and
grinding e.g. Java into the dust.  This only confirms in a specific case
study the well-know results of the Function Point community: the higher
level a language, the least amount of code per FP it needs, the higher
the productivity in all phases of coding and maintenance.

> do with what the programmer likes to do. If he or she would like to
> program in Python everething would be fine. However most or today's
> programmers like to do what is called "mainstream" (circular reasoning, I
> know) That is a little bit document driven development, some UML charts,
> Visual Studio, something inbetwen C and C++, C# and Java, and MS Office.

As long as those are the skills that employers request, those are the
skills most employees will cultivate, of course.


> This can only change if there is competition. Competition means a Killer
> Application that could be sold for half the price of the nearest
> competitor because the developing costs had been such low!
> 
> Do it with Python then and show it to the world  ;-)

It's been done more than once, and it's being done again as we speak,
many times over -- again, see the Python Success Stories.  Google is
an example that didn't choose to submit all details of its Python
success -- but Norvig, Google's search-quality director, has stated
unambiguously what a crucial role Python has played and still plays
in Google's amazing ongoing success.  The Open-Source Applications
Foundation is doing the same with Chandler, a personal information
manager application.

Once again, it appears that your assertions are based on essentially
zero knowledge about the subjects you're prattling about.


Alex




From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Mon Sep  8 08:00:04 2003
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 12:00:04 GMT
Subject: ANN: Python for arm-linux feed
References: <biqbhg$c04ej$1@ID-192111.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f535861@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <bjhr04$jd77t$1@ID-192111.news.uni-berlin.de>

> BTW I was testing some scripts with PyQT on my Ipaq/Opie/Familar. On my
> Desktop the script runs fine and it acquires KDE's look-and-feel, but on
> the IPAQ it shows in the generic QT/E look-and-feel - it doesn't acquire
> the general OPIE look.. Would you know why is that?

You must create a qtpe.QPEApplication, not a qt.QApplication object as the
one and only application object.

:M:



From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Sun Sep 14 04:11:01 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:11:01 -0400
Subject: mixing for x in file: and file.readline
In-Reply-To: <owen-881CDA.10574712092003@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <rowen-222487.13545311092003@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1063364898.12243.python-list@python.org> <owen-881CDA.10574712092003@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20030914081101.GA2693@hishome.net>

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 10:57:47AM -0700, Russell E. Owen wrote:
...
> >It's possible to hide the problem in most cases by making read and 
> >readline use the iteration readahead buffer if it's attached to the file
> >object and stdio if it isn't. I don't think it's a good idea. It will
> >require some hairy code and and seems susceptible to subtle bugs and
> >corner cases.
> 
> I agree that fixing read would probably be too messy to justify.
> 
> But it seems to me that a simple reimplementation of readline() would 
> work fine:
> 
> def readline(self):
>    try:
>       return self.next()
>    except StopIteration
>       return ""
> 
> That's basically the way I ended up working around the problem (but I 
> didn't try to modify any classes). I do see two issues with that fix:
> - existing code (if any) that mixes readlines and read would be harmed
> - it may not be efficient enough (even implemented in C)

It will be very efficient. In fact, it will be faster than the current
readline implementation because it will use the readahead buffer. But
the problem is more than just mixing readline() and read(). Mixing 
readline() and tell() will also be broken. It is valid (and useful) to 
read a file line by line, store a tell() offset and later seek() back to 
the same line. It works even if the file is in text mode doing CRLF->LF 
conversions. 

> >Another alternative it to make read and readline fail noisily after 
> >iteration starts (unless cleared by seek())
> 
> If readlines cannot be fixed, this might be worth doing since I think 
> it's a common thing to want to mix readlines and iteration. If read is 
> the only issue, I suspect adding a warning to the documentation for file 
> method "read" would suffice.

The problem is that it will work on, say, Python 2.3.1 but fail silently
on earlier versions. Why not just use next() instead of readline()? 
Because catching StopIteration takes a little more typing than checking
an empty string? 

> I'm wondering where the problem is discussed in the manual. I'm pretty 
> sure I saw it recently, but when I read about file methods I saw nothing 
> about it.

I believe it's not documented clearly enough. Docpatch time?

    Oren




From mpeuser at web.de  Wed Sep  3 14:15:36 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:15:36 +0200
Subject: reading large file
References: <9bd0dd3f.0309030400.7fa2dc0f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj5b5b$2ij$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"guillaume" <g_alleon at yahoo.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9bd0dd3f.0309030400.7fa2dc0f at posting.google.com...
> I have to read and process a large ASCII file containing a mesh : a
> list of points and triangles.
> The file is 100 MBytes.
>
> I first tried to do it in memory but I think I am running out of
> memory therefore I decide to use the shelve
> module to store my points and elements on disks.
> Despite the fact it is slow ... Any hint ? I think I have the same
> memory problem but I don't understand why
> since  my aPoint should be removed by the gc.

What do you expect from shelve? I should recommend you convert your data in
afirst pass into a binary format (doing all this atoi() in this pre-pass)
Then use memory mapped file access when reading it for your work pass.

But maybe you need a lot of memory for your internal structure as well. If
youe have  a small RAM <512 MB the system could do a lot of swapping. You
will notice that when processor load goes down! The cheapest solution
generally is doubling your RAM.

Kindly
Michael P





From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Fri Sep 12 11:47:56 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:47:56 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
Message-ID: <001401c37945$3c90c210$0c02a8c0@Arts>

Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.net> schreef:

> This Septmeber 11.

Jan writes -

>I vote for an amendment to Godwin's Law...

>"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
>involving Nazis, Hitler OR SEPTEMBER 11 approaches one."

The increase in the probability of a reference to September 11 increasing by
what % carried to four decimal places, concluded with what degree of
certainty carried to four decimal places, on a September 11?

And you felt nothing?

Art





From kosh at aesaeion.com  Wed Sep 10 04:15:38 2003
From: kosh at aesaeion.com (kosh)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:15:38 -0600
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <3F5ECEF7.9080409@mxm.dk>
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <3F5ECDE2.40206@mxm.dk> <3F5ECEF7.9080409@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <200309100215.38583.kosh@aesaeion.com>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 01:12 am, Max M wrote:
> Max M wrote:
> > import class1, class2, class3
> >
> > def Factory(class_type):
> >     if class_type='class1':
> >         return class1()
> >     elif class_type='class2':
> >         return class2()
> >     elif class_type='class2':
> >         return class3()
> >

use

def Factory(class_type):
  factory = {
    'class1':class1,
    'class2':class2,
    'class3':class3}
  try:
    return factory[class_type]()
  except KeyError:
    pass 

That will expand nicely and only needs a single lookup. Change the except 
condition to match what you what you want to happen when the class is not 
found. I have one factory that can make one of about 50 objects and doing an 
if elif structure would suck for that. Also if you want create that data 
structure outside that method so that you only create it once although that 
is not really an issue since it works very fast.

> >
> >
> > # using the factory
> > from Factory import Factory
> > myObject = Factory(class2)
>
> That last line should read:
>
> myObject = Factory('class2')
>
> Max M




From gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net  Sun Sep 14 14:11:05 2003
From: gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net (Gary Feldman)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:11:05 GMT
Subject: Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org> <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <FxednV9rKLKlKf6iRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <pdb9mv42covtudsfnfj02lakbniufabt6t@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:20:08 -0500, "A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote:

>
>* You don't have to add locks around your data structures, and run the risk
>  of subtle and time-dependent bugs if you forget or get the locking wrong.
>
>* You have to figure out some persistent way to store session information so
>  that all the processes can access it.  This is extra work, but it also

Of course, this point obviates the previous point.  And regardless of which
approach you use, you need to spend time to distinguish shared data and
per-thread/process data.

>any benefit from using threading in web applications.

The main benefit of threads is performance.  Sharing data among the threads
is often faster than sharing data among processes (you don't need to deal
with shm_get, etc. for sharing memory on UNIX systems).  Locking the shared
data is likewise often faster.  Finally, my understanding of the MS Windows
world is that threads as a general rule are more efficient than processes.

Gary



From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 17 20:47:22 2003
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 17:47:22 -0700
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
References: <mailman.1063781063.16709.python-list@python.org> <tAV9b.181$qK1.218658@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <8e6e8e5d.0309171647.65d5ea1f@posting.google.com>

Tony, I think I can understand your point of view. You make some good
points, and I want to address them one by one:

> "Arthur" <ajsiegel at optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1063781063.16709.python-list at python.org...
> > Ron asks -
> >
> > >Any other ideas would be appreciated. Meanwhile, I would be interested
> > >if anyone would offer thoughts on which of the 5 directions for future
> > >activity sound most interesting.
> >
> > Sorry Ron.
> >
> > Can you remind me what the connection to CP4E is, and why you are
>  headlining
> > that slogan in connection with your work.

Tony, you are 100% correct, I did use CP4E as a slogan, and slogan's
have a lot of bad attributes. But, they tend to be remembered, long
after the finer points of an argument are forgotten. If Nietzhche had
not sloganeered wtih "God is dead", and "ubermensch" would he have
received as much attention and had as much effect? Now, Nietzche was
perhaps a blow-hard and arguably his best effects were
counter-reactions, but we all remember him. And far as my connection
to CP4E, it seems a good enough four word acronym for what I am doing,
and it illustrates how Python is enabling me to enjoy the world of
programming much easier and more effectively than I could have with
any other language; and if it works for me, then I am hypothesyzing
that it can work for millions of folks like me.

> >
> > You, as did I with my own project, with sustained effort over a three year
> > period -  starting, let's say from scratch - produced something of which
> > each of us can hopefully be rightfully proud.

Yes, and I am proud of what I am doing. But let me clarify that most
of my three years of hobby effort were spent learning the language;
the honing of the code in my little program was as much a tool and a
motivation for so learning Python; a wedge to keep me going. Also, I
travel a lot in my work, about 50% of the time and all over the world.
When traveling overseas, I am ususally far too tired at night to
program. But I do find reading Python books on long transoceanic
flights to be a perfect passtime, and reading-napping-reading is a
good way for me to learn.

So, I suspect that many folks can and will accomplish considerably
more in 3 years of hobbyist effort than I have. In no way should my
program reflect poorly on others' efforts, you may well have created a
much and pardon me my simpler pleasures.

> >
> > Three years of sustained effort.
> >
> > But we seemed to have taken away different lessons.
> >
> > My expereince led me to look upon the CP4E slogan quite askance.  Yours,
> > apparently, allowed you to embrace it.

Agreed, and I respect your point of view on this. Also, I noticed that
some one on the marketing-python list a few weeks ago made a similar
comment; that he was not too happy about people making too much of
Python's alleged ease of learning, because it devalued the skills of
those professional programmers who need to be fairly paid and make a
living at programming with Python. This seems to me to be a reasonable
position to take, but still, since Guido coined CP4E, I feel justified
in exploring that aspect of Python's nature, and I do find I that the
hypotesis that ease of learning and ease of use might ultimately win
out in the programming field, this resonates with me.

But we certainly still need expert Python programmes, to do the real
work, create the serious business systems, and also to create the
tools that I and others like me use ;-)))

> >
> > It seems to me "everybody" who's imagination is ignited by something to
>  the
> > extent that it carries them through 3 years of sustained effort can expect
> > to be doing "computer programming" somewhere along that line.
> >
> > Not very surprising, really.

Good point. And the same aforementioned marketing-python poster
pointed out that  brain surgery is not for everybody, and that
programming is also not for everybody. And I agree. But the CP4E
slogan is using hyperbole to make a memorable point...that programming
can be usefully extended to a far greater audience. And that learning
as much as one is interested in about the brain, nervous system, and
artificial intelligence does not create a danger that such people will
take scalpels to their loved ones' heads. It's horses for courses, you
know?


> >
> > No slogans helped me along - that I do know.
> >
> > It was three years of sustained effort.
> >
> > For everybody?
> >
> > Are we *required* to embrace that notion?

 LOL. Of course we are not required to embrace any notion. Even if you
advocate curly braces, your welcome in my discussions, but I wont
agree with you ;-)))

> >
> > Yes everybody  - let's say - has that potential. But that was true before
> > Python came along.
> >
> > For some - like myself - Python was a real factor in helping realize that
> > potential. I am a raving fan, in fact.
> >
> > But I do not discount my 3 years of sustained effort as anything less than
>  3
> > years of sustained effort, and seem to  think that that was a bit of
>  factor,
> > as well.

 Hey, I did put in a lot of effort, sustained effort, as you say, and
I do not de-value that. Perhaps one of my primary resaons for admiring
Python so much is that it helped to sustain in me that 3 year effort,
which is no mean feat.

> >
> > And would love to see the CP4E slogan go away now, peacefully and happily.
> >
> > Art
 
Well, I like the CP4E sloagan; but I'm not married to it. One of my
first exposures to Python was a mention of CP4E in some good book
about hackers, primarily Linus Torvalds, but I forget the title. The
author in a later chapter  of that book mentioned Guido's CP4E slogan
and it piqued my interest. But I don't mind some others being turned
off to it.

Look, the main thing is this. My program is trivial, I could have done
more than half of it by simply using an Excel spreadsheet way back 3
years ago. But I wouldn't have , and the Python program, trivially
simple as it is at its roots, raises interesting ideas for extension
and expansion that could just possibly lead to quite interesting uses.
It will still be trivial in most ways, it wont ever earn a buck, but
it could be interesting and useful; and I don't think I would have
been motivated to follow up on any of those ideas in a lesser language
in which the barrier to such exploration was higher than I would want
to pay. Python seems to encourage and reward incremental effort, and
it leads one to explore extentions and improvements to programs
because the language makes it relatively easy to see how to do the
extensions.

And it gives me satisfaction; and, if Python continues to stimulate my
interest and motivation for another 25 years (if I should live so
long...I am 50 already!) then who knows, it just might be a nice
program in 2028 when I pass on. Stranger things have happened.

And how else could I have spent my precious leasure time? Watching TV?
Reading more books? They would have earnd me no more money, and
perhpas simulated my mind less.

But the real payoff, I am sure, is the community. Even reading the
great classics would not have expanded my community of social contacts
and interaction with intellgent, humourous people who help me with my
programs, answer my questions, and enliven my life with discussions I
would have not otherwise been privy to.

And so if I feel bold enough to share my little program with the
newsgroup, and risk the ridicule of showing off my Mickey Mouse side
(as one of my beloved Physics professors used to say), then so be it.

Watching Python grow is a good pastime. If even one other person
benefits from seeing my program, even if it is to suddenly realize and
say to themself "Hey, I could do that a lot better than that" then I
am happy I shared it.

If someone codes a mini-expert system to add to the program, I will be
ecstatic.
And if none of this happens, I am none the worse for wear. 

Cheers Tony,

Ron Stephens



From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 10:07:20 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:07:20 -0400
Subject: Equivalent of std::set
Message-ID: <tKXcb.75225$PD3.4793461@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Hi,

I haven't work so much in python and I was wondering what python 
programmers use for string collections, like an equivalent of C++ 
std::set.  Do you use a dictionary with dummy values?  Tuple/list?  Is 
there any other structure in some module with uniqueness ensured and 
lookup optimised?  I'm only interested in storing strings in that structure.

Thx for help

Nicolas




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Sep 22 14:51:51 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:51:51 -0700
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org> <3F6F3E38.5221D7E7@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-89A196.11515122092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3F6F3E38.5221D7E7 at engcorp.com>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> > For example, which one of the following would be more efficient, or ,
> > moreover, more pythonic?
> > 
> > if aa[:3] == 'abc':
> > 
> > vs
> > 
> > if aa.startswith('abc'):
> 
> The latter is clearly more readable.

More Pythonic, too, I think.  "Readability counts," and "There should be 
one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."  In this case, 
startswith must be the one obvious way, or else why would it exist in 
the standard library at all?

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From BoteDesSchattens at web.de  Mon Sep 22 16:03:40 2003
From: BoteDesSchattens at web.de (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 20:03:40 GMT
Subject: How do you sort a name list and list in random order?
References: <mailman.1061730708.21315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bknkiq$3o6va$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

Frank & Janny Plaza <plaza247 at sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:mailman.1061730708.21315.python-list at python.org: 

> I am trying to write a program in which the users will each enter
> their names and when all names have been entered, I want to randomly
> sort

"randomly sort"??????? I mean, for me "randomly" means somewhat of the 
opposite of "sorted"...

Bye
Tobias



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Wed Sep 10 15:48:24 2003
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:48:24 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <3F5ECDE2.40206@mxm.dk>
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <3F5ECDE2.40206@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <20030910194824.GE2136@darkstar.localdomain.fake>

On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 09:08:18AM +0200, Max M wrote:
> Is there any reason not to use a standard factory pattern for this? It 
> is the normal approach.

Yes, because that way I would have to fiddle with the classes. I do not
want to change anything in the application, when someone adds a class to
the one I am loading.

Marco
-- 
We have not inherited the earth from our parents, we've borrowed it from
our children.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736




From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Thu Sep 25 18:13:32 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:13:32 +0200
Subject: Python for CGI scripting
References: <mailman.1064527175.9198.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <g3q6nvgdfqfnd1kf66vh4dj287mvjfp144@4ax.com>

mark:
>I am beginning to get interested in how I can use Python in place of
>something like Java for Website scripting.  Are there any books on this,
>or any tutorials on the Web I could read?

http://www.python.org/topics/web/
http://www.zope.org

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep 27 00:17:23 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 04:17:23 GMT
Subject: 2nd iteration of a character
References: <bkigte$1e3b$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <3f7020d6$0$20953$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <bl330j$m43$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:38:36 +0200, "Anthony McDonald" <tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr> wrote:

>"Philippe Rousselot" <mailing at rousselot.rg> wrote in message
>news:bkigte$1e3b$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
>> Hi,
>>
>> How do I find the second iteration of a character in a string using python
>>
>> this gives me the first one
>> f1 = string.find(line,sub)
>>
>> this the last one
>> f2 = string.rfind(line,sub)
>>
>> but for the nth one ?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Philippe
>>
>> PS : any good book to recommend ?
>
>Most of the answers you've been given take the form (haystack, needle,
>iteration), so I thought it'd be nice to write a little iterator.
>
>class Ifind:
>    def __init__(self, haystack, needle):
>        self.haystack = haystack
>        self.needle = needle
>        self.pos = 0
>    def __iter__(self):
>        return self
>    def next(self):
>        found = self.haystack[self.pos:].find(self.needle)
>        if found == -1:
>            raise StopIteration
>        found = self.pos + found
>        self.pos = found + 1
>        return found
>
>>>> for a in Ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "3"):
>...  print a
>...
>2
>12
>22

Carrying on with that theme ...

You could use the re module, e.g., (observing that a constant string with no magic characters
is a simple regular expression, though you could of course make up more complex things with re).

 >>> import re
 >>> for mo in re.finditer("3", "123456789012345678901234567890"): print mo.start()
 ...
 2
 12
 22

>>>>
>>>> for a in Ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "1234567890"):
>...  print a
>...
>0
>10
>20

 >>> for mo in re.finditer("1234567890", "123456789012345678901234567890"): print mo.start()
 ...
 0
 10
 20

>>>>
>>>> for a in Ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "nope"):
>...  print a
>...

 >>> for mo in re.finditer("nope", "123456789012345678901234567890"): print mo.start()
 ...
 >>>

Or if you do want to roll your own find-based iterable, the generator version seems easier to me:

 >>> def ifind(haystack, needle):
 ...     pos=0; skip = len(needle)
 ...     while 1:
 ...         pos = haystack.find(needle, pos)
 ...         if pos<0: break
 ...         yield pos
 ...         pos += skip
 ...
 >>> for i in ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "3"): print i
 ...
 2
 12
 22
 >>> for i in ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "1234567890"): print i
 ...
 0
 10
 20
 >>> for i in ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "nope"): print i
 ...
 >>>   

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From rickard-karlsson at bostream.nu  Tue Sep 23 17:04:23 2003
From: rickard-karlsson at bostream.nu (Rickard Karlsson)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 14:04:23 -0700
Subject: Newbie question, problem with functions
Message-ID: <31bd93f0.0309231304.329c9589@posting.google.com>

I have wrote this little program, that is supposed to execute eg. the
Linux ls command  when you press a button. Te problem is that all the
commands are run automaticly and they won't run when I press the
associated button. Wath am I do wrong?

from Tkinter import *
import os

class App:

    def __init__(self, master):

        frame = Frame(master)
        frame.pack()
	
	b1 = Button(frame, text = "ls", command = self.execute('ls'))
	b2 = Button(frame, text = "ls -alh", command = self.execute('ls
-alh'))
	b3 = Button(frame, text = "pwd", command = self.execute('pwd'))

	b1.grid(column=0, row=1)
	b2.grid(column=0, row=2)
	b3.grid(column=0, row=3)

    def execute(self,com):
        os.system(com)

root = Tk()

app = App(root)

root.mainloop()



From mwh at python.net  Wed Sep 24 08:31:17 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:31:17 GMT
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com> <3F6DD4D7.AF309B4@hotmail.com> <bkqj0q$4vr$0@216.39.144.46>
Message-ID: <7h3smmm4bkj.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Paul <paul at oz.net> writes:

> What's the best way to do this under Python 2.1?
> I believe socket.timeout was a 2.3 feature.
> Wrap it in threads? 

There's Tim O'Malley's timeoutsocket.py (google for it), which was the
inspiration for the feature in 2.3 (though I don't think any code from
there actually survived).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
31. Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Tue Sep 16 11:31:01 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:31:01 -0300
Subject: Datetime utility functions
In-Reply-To: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com>
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030916153100.GA3711@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> I was just writing some code which did date/time manipulations, and I
> found that the Python 2.3 datetime module does not supply a number of
[...]

Your message arrived in the exact time.. :-)

Have a look at this:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/52956

I'll publish it somewhere an announce here once I get the
time to do so.

> My specific requirements were:
> 
> 1. Get the last day of the month contatining a given date(time). I
> really was surprised to find this one missing, as it seems to me that
> the datetime module must know what the last day for each month is, so
> exposing it wouldn't have been hard.

I don't understand this one. The last day of the month containing
a given datetime? A datetime is absolute, how would it be "contained"
in something else?

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 16:27:23 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:27:23 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064603008.1592.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064603008.1592.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Li1db.75354$PD3.4795120@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Pettersen, Bjorn S wrote:
> Seriously though, long lines are a sure sign that you're doing too much
> per line. The obvious solution is to pull out subexpressions and assign
> them to meaningful temporary variable names until you're within 25x80.
> When someone wants to fix a bug in your code a year from now it will
> also be easier for them to figure out what you were trying to do
> (potentially saving you time :-)

It's probably not intentional, but I find that comment vexing.  For 
example, I have Mark Lutz "Programming Python" in my hands and there's 
long lines everywhere and I consider this code properly commented and 
maintainable.  Even if I'm relatively new to python, I'm an experienced 
programmer and I think I can measure and not abuse of long instructions. 
  Sorry to overreact ;)

>>    parser.StartElementHandler = (lambda name, attrs:
>>        GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs))
> 
> A lambda that doesn't fit on one line is way to obscure... It needs a
> comment to justify it's existence, so might as well do it right <wink>:

Come on, that is not obscure at all.  I agree your solution is more 
scalable but in that case it is intended to be not needed since the 
lambda is only used to make a method callback.

Regards,

Nicolas




From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Sat Sep 20 08:21:20 2003
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (satish)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:21:20 -0400
Subject: Custom Execution from Python
In-Reply-To: <3F6B998A.FBA7E584@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1064009910.29111.python-list@python.org> <3F6B998A.FBA7E584@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200309200821.20794.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>

Hello peter,

Thanks for responding. I will think through my problem again and present it in 
the best possible form shortly. However, in a nutshell, what I need to do is 
*EXECUTE A PYTHON MODULE WITH A SHELL SCRIPT PROVIDED BY AN EXTERNAL PROGRAM, 
FROM WITHIN PYTHON*

The name of the script is *ansyscust71* which is a shell script provided by a 
Finite Element software called ANSYS.  ANSYS provides a number of 
customization features, as a part of which, it allows users to write fortran 
codes using ANSYS's internal functions/methods and execute the corresponding 
*shared modules* using the following command.

$ ansyscust71 -custom cable -p ANSYSRF

ANSYS EXECUTES SUCCESFULLY


However, initially when I did'nt know of the above command,  I executed 
*cable* as follows :

$ ./cable

ANSYS EXECUTED
Segmentation Fault

Later I did use the right command as I mentioned above, which made my module 
execute succesfully.

*cable* is a shared module which I got after *making* my fortran code viz. 
*ansys.F90*  by linking it with *ANSYS libraries* using a *Makefile* that I 
wrote for the purpose


After this, I intended to do the same thing from python. I wrapped my fortran 
code *ansys.F90* using F2PY(Fortran to Python Interface Generator), with 
which many of the python users are familiar. I got a python module named 
*cable_f2py* succesfully. 


          Sample *ansys.F90*

 SUBROUTINE ansys()
 cmd='START_OF_ANSYS'
 ncommand=len_trim(cmd)
 where=mainan(ncommand,cmd)
 END SUBROUTINE ansys
	
This is just a part of *ansys.F90* which initializes ANSYS upon execution

From python I execute the module as follows :

>> import cable_f2py     %cable is a python module generated by F2PY
>> cable_f2py.ansys()	

ANSYS EXECUTED
Segmentation fault

$

ANSYS gets initialized succesfully. However, I get a segmentation fault at the 
end and PYTHON skips the execution from that point and transfers control to 
the command prompt.

If you remember, the same thing happened when I tried to execute *cable* as 
*./cable* initially when I did'nt use F2PY to generate the Python module


Precisely, this is my problem. 

Does this help you to help me ??


Thanks for your time and patience in advance,

Regards,
Satish


On Friday 19 September 2003 08:04 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
> satish wrote:
> > I have a shared object executable  viz. *cable*  which I execute as
> > follows : $ ansyscust71 -custom cable -p ANSYSRF
> >
> > **ansyscust71 is a shell script and is a part of a software called
> > ANSYS**
> >
> > Now, I have generated a python module using a *fortran-python interface
> > generator called F2PY* using the same *make rules* which were used to
> > make *cable* when not using F2PY
> >
> > I got a Python extension module named *cable_f2py* again.
> >
> > From the python environment when I tried to execute *cable_f2py* ( this
> > is python module due to F2PY), I got a segmentation error just like how I
> > would get this error when I execute *cable* as follows when not using
> > F2PY:
> >
> > $ ./cable
> > Segmentation Fault
> >
> > However, when I execute it as follows, it works
> >
> > $ansyscust71 -custom cable -p ANSYSRF  --> This is required for succesful
> > execution
> >
> > Now, I dont understand how I can mimic the above way of execution from
> > within Python to execute *cable_f2py* which as I mentioned earlier is the
> > result of making and linking all the same libraries which were used while
> > making and linking cable
> >
> > I am really confused
>
> So are we, as most of what you describe above seems to have very little
> relationship with Python.  You might need to think through your problem
> and attempt to explain it in a different way for us to help you.  For
> example, you don't show *how* you try to execute it "from the python
> environment".  Have you got some code to show us?
>
> Anyway, as a bit of a long shot, are you aware of the os.system() function,
> and the various other methods of running external executables?  If
> you are already using one of those, you might want to show us how you
> use it.
>
> -Peter

-- 
SATISH KUMAR CHIMAKURTHI
Graduate Teaching Assistant
CFD GROUP
UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
LEXINGTON
KENTUCKY - 40508
Email: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu
Mobile: 859-312-8425

Vice-President
American Institute Of Aeronautics and Astronautics
Student Chapter
University Of Kentucky




From jwdillworth at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 12 10:55:18 2003
From: jwdillworth at yahoo.com (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:55:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: read from file
In-Reply-To: <bjsl8j$qg2$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <20030912145518.86988.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com>

It depends.  Is the information being appended to the end of the file?
If so then the solution is pretty simple.

Just record the file size when you read it, watch the mtime using os.stat(),
when the file changes open it and do a file.seek() to the original file size
before beginning to read.  When done reading, record the new filesize.

If records at the end of the file are incomplete you'll need to compensate.
Maybe you could record an expected_file_size and an already_read_file_size.
Seek to the already_read_file_size to pick up records that were incomplete
during the last read.  When inspecting the file, compare against 
expected_file_size.

If the new data is being written to various positions in the file then
the solution is much more complicated and we need more specifics.
You need a way to know which records in the file have changed.

--- Tom <llafba at gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I need to read information from a file. That is not the problem, BUT 
> another programm (I have no control about that programm) constantly 
> writes more information into that specific file. How can I get the new 
> information that has bee added to that file and that I have not yet 
> read? I don't want to re-read the entire file, because that is a whole 
> lot of data!!
> 
> I wrote a little software that is analysing the data that is written 
> into the file. That's why I would only like to get the new data.
> 
> Any help would be deeply appreciated.
> 
> Thanks Tom
> 
> P.S.: Another question would be: Is there a way to find the file that 
> was last edited?
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Sep 25 17:05:45 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:05:45 GMT
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com> <m3fzinp4k0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309251050.77c86735@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <JMIcb.122892$bo1.24537@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

jallan:
> martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis) wrote
> > ...
> > This is a contradiction: SpecialCasing contains 1:n mappings, whereas
> > .upper() can only return a single result. So how do you think
> > SpecialCasing should be considered in the implementation of .upper()?
>
> I am not aware that it is philosophically a *necessary* feature of
> .upper() that a single character not be replaced by a string of two or
> more characters.

   That is not the issue. The issue is that .upper would have to return a
list or map of results (for an illustrative but incorrect example
"ca~non".upper() -> {'portugal':'CANON','spain':'CA~NON'}), which would be
difficult for the caller to make use of without performing some additional
work, finding the correct result for its locale. It is simpler for the
caller to provide a locale argument in the .upper call or in its context.

   Neil





From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 02:55:41 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:55:41 +0200
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
Message-ID: <bj9c2d$87g$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Martin Christensen" <knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:87y8x4w6ym.fsf at gvdnet.dk...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Howdy!
>
> Suppose I have a list A containing elements that I want to put into
> list B if they satisfy some property. The obvious way of doing it
> would be,
>
> B = []
> for i in A:
>     if A.property():
>        B.append(i)
>
> Now, list comprehensions, map() etc. can make a lot of list operations
> easier, but I haven't found a shorter, more elegant way of doing this.
> Have I missed something, or will I have to stick to my explicit loops?


from random import random
rowA1 =[random()]*100000; rowA2=[random()]*100000
rowB1 = rowA1[:]; rowB2 =rowA2[:]
rowC1 = rowA1[:]; rowC2 =rowA2[:]

def A(row1,row2):
    for x in row2:
        if x<0.5:
            row1.append(x)

def B(row1, row2):
    row1 += filter(lambda x: x<0.5,row2)

def C(row1, row2):
    row1 += [x for x in row2 if x<0.5]


def main():
    A(rowA1,rowA2)
    B(rowB1,rowB2)
    C(rowC1,rowC2)

profile.run("main()")
----------------
Kindly
Michael P





From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Mon Sep 15 14:18:25 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:18:25 +0200
Subject: Web server with Python
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com> <mailman.1063352060.32640.python-list@python.org> <6o24mvcmksid33t4s9b8cbsrnctl5n2o6m@4ax.com> <mailman.1063518260.30336.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sf0cmvo2ccdqnnhe8bmvdfg5cj4099oav3@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:43:30 +1000, Andrew Bennetts
<andrew-twisted at puzzling.org> wrote:


>Eek!  Does 1.0.7 (just released) work any better?  Also, what platform are
>you using, and are you installing from the source .tar.gz or something else?

I didn't try 1.0.7, didn't even know that it was out. 
I am on a WinXP box and used the prebuild binaries.

I have started digging into Medusa right now... and stay focused on
that one until I have a blocking problem or I get bored ;-)

-PU




From sheu at bu.edu  Thu Sep 18 12:15:49 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:15:49 -0400
Subject: file object: seek and close?
Message-ID: <3F69DA35.8070207@bu.edu>

Hi,

Does the seek method would close the file object after using a for loop?
My program looks like this:

f = open('somefile', 'r')
for lines in f:
    some operations
f.seek(0)

for lines in f:
    other operations

Python gave me an IOErros saying that the file object is already closed. 
I am now opening the file again under another file object.

Am I doing something wrong or it's a bug?
Thanks!

-shuhsien





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 04:47:47 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:47:47 +0100
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net> <mailman.1064580340.26537.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vijanv0lloncphml3mcjohgjukkv1eea4p@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:44:30 +0200, Ronald Oussoren
<oussoren at cistron.nl> wrote:

>The fun you can have on windows, I've  
>managed to create files that cannot be removed :-)

I've had that one simply by saving a web page in IE. Seriously
annoying.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  4 07:51:54 2003
From: bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com (Chris Stromberger)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:51:54 GMT
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <kp9elv0l4hqsd4h4kq89aoscsk0vpk6i1h@4ax.com>

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:00:45 -0600, Jules Dubois <bogus at invalid.tld>
wrote:

>On 03 Sep 2003 13:58:00 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:
>
>> The Python Cookbook is the first book I'd have on my list if I were
>> learning Python now (O'Reilly, eds. Martelli & Ascher).
>

I think Learning Python is the best starter book for Python newbies.



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Sep 24 15:00:05 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:00:05 GMT
Subject: Others constructors...
References: <mailman.1064425478.9477.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VQlcb.2090$RW4.1813@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Others constructors...Batista, Facundo:
> but also you have others constructors. For example:
>        mydate = datetime.date.today()
> How is this trick implemented in Python?

staticmethod, which is in newer Pythons.

>>> class Date:
...    def __init__(self, year, month, day):
...       self.year = year
...       self.month = month
...       self.day = day
...    def my_birthday():
...       return Date(1970, 8, 22)
...    my_birthday = staticmethod(my_birthday)
...
>>> d = Date.my_birthday()
>>> d.year
1970
>>>

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Mon Sep 15 05:09:06 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:39:06 +0530
Subject: Could somebody please explain what is happening ....
References: <3f657f95$0$10968$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <oufziyxvt9.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "John" == John Dean <john at rygannon.com> writes:

> I know what global means and I know what import means but what is the reason
> for making an imported module global?

I can't think of any reason for doing that. May be, sys or os are being
re-assigned somewhere in the code (which would be a weird thing to do).

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R




From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Sep 20 08:32:37 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:32:37 +0200
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <87llsma4fb.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl> <95b4b9ac.0309181021.14b45d65@posting.google.com> <87ad8zsqzc.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <bkhheq$30e$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Lukasz Pankowski wrote:

> Sorry for my misunderstanding, yes it would be nice to have a
> posibility to index a sequence with a list of indices, here is a pure
> Python (>= 2.2) implementation of the idea:
> 
> class List(list):
> 
>     def __getitem__(self, index):
>         if isinstance(index, (tuple, list)):
>             return [list.__getitem__(self, i) for i in index]
>         else:
>             return list.__getitem__(self, index)
> 
>>>> l = List(range(0, 100, 10))
>>>> l[0,2,3]
> [0, 20, 30]

This is nice :-)

> but in this simple using both commas and slices will not work as
> expected
> 
>>>> l[0,1,7:]
> [0, 10, [70, 80, 90]]

Your implementation can be extended to handle slices and still remains
simple:

class List3(list):
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        if hasattr(index, "__getitem__"): # is index list-like?
            result = []
            for i in index:
                if hasattr(i, "start"): # is i slice-like?
                    result.extend(list.__getitem__(self, i))
                else:
                    result.append(list.__getitem__(self, i))
            return result
        else:
            return list.__getitem__(self, index)

I have used hasattr() instead of isinstance() tests because I think that the
"we take everything that behaves like X" approach is more pythonic than
"must be an X instance". 
While __getitem__() is fairly basic for lists, I am not sure if start can be
considered mandatory for slices, though.

Peter



From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Mon Sep 22 21:21:22 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:21:22 -0400
Subject: pyopengl / python2.3 / win32
Message-ID: <001501c38171$002024e0$0c02a8c0@Arts>

John asks -

>Does anyone have a a windows installer for pyopengl built for
>python2.3 on win32 that they can send me, or a link?

There seems to be an issue building togl against tk8.4 on Windows.

I have made a minimal PyOpenGL binary for Python2.3 on Windows available at:

http://pw1.netcom.com/~ajs/download/

The distro excludes togl, the OpenGL1.2 extensions, and the OpenGLConetxt
code.

Numeric binary for Python2.3 Windows is also available in this directory.

Hope it's helpful.

Art





From pweldon at mindspring.com  Sun Sep 21 12:36:14 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:36:14 GMT
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <mailman.1064156609.10422.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2skbb.49391$Aq2.37497@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

I don't think 'fewer' examples of bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' messages will
be 'better' because of the permutating and morphing nature of this worm
generated message.  'Fewer' examples would result in ALL 'Undeliverable
e-mail' message catagorized as objectionable because the number valid
messages of this type is so small in the save e-mail that most users have.

In addition, I'd opt for the commercial product because protecting my
systems against infection is not what I want to spend my time doing, and I'm
quite willing to pay for that product.  Now, if I can just find a way to
charge the cost to Earthlink because of their failure to perform their
implicit contract to provide reliable e-mail service.

Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064156609.10422.python-list at python.org...
> [Phil Weldon]
> > Inboxer for Outlook is a plugin written with Python that will analyze
> > collections of what you consider legitimate e-mail and and what you
> > consider illegitimate e-mail.
>
> The classification engine in Inboxer comes from the free spambayes
project:
>
>     http://www.spambayes.org/
>
> Inboxer is a commercial product (produced by some old friends of mine from
> Dragon Systems, but I have no other connection to it), which can afford to
> pay people to research and add ease-of-use features.  The spambayes
project
> is behind on that count, but for the technically-minded should perform
> equally well.
>
> > I downloaded it and ran it against a collection of 1500 messages
> > generated by the Worm.Automat.AHB and 265 the latest legitimate
> > e-mails I've received.
>
> The spambayes engine works best when trained on approximately equal
numbers
> of ham and spam.  You should actually get better results if you train on
far
> *fewer* than 1500 of a particular species of spam.  In my home classifier,
I
> eee I've trained on 6 slightly different instances of Worm.Automat spew,
and
> that's all.  All the rest I've gotten were classed as spam (but I have my
> spam cutoff set to 80, and IIRC Inboxer defaults that to 90).
>
> > After the analysis, Inboxer has detected about 250 Worm.Automat.AHB
> > generated messages with no false negatives and no false positives
> > (granted there were only three new legitimate e-mails.
>
> If you start getting some, the paradoxical best thing to do would, again,
be
> to train on *fewer* worm spew messages.
>
>





From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Tue Sep 16 16:06:34 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:06:34 -0400
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <20030916042008.16681.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <8B40EBC0-E7FA-11D7-973E-003065F081D2@actrix.co.nz> <20030916042008.16681.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F676D4A.9040808@zephyrfalcon.org>

Rob Hunter wrote:

Hi,

>>It's not mutation, it's assignment.
>>
> 
> 
> I had always used the word mutation basically for
> any use of a "!" in Scheme, but fair enough.

Well... there may be a difference in terminology... but IIRC, set! and friends 
are used for a variable that already exists.  In Python, 'x = 1' is always an 
assignment (or a binding of a name, whatever you want to call it).  If x 
already exists, you could call it mutation I guess, but it doesn't matter 
whether x already existed in the namespace, or not.

> Well, yeah.  And that's a good thing, right?  I
> mean, perhaps not in general, but certainly in
> this case I think everyone can agree that it is
> *assignment* which creates the confusing issue of
> all buttons being named 10.

Depends on how you look at it:

[Jeff's example code]
def make_stupid_gui():
     t = Tk()
     for i in range(10):
         b = Button(t, text="Button #%d" % i,
             command=lambda: button_func(i))
         b.pack()
make_stupid_gui()

The reason that you get surprising results, is that the i in button_func(i) 
isn't evaluated until that piece of code is actually called.  When it's called, 
it looks at the value that i has *at that moment*.  The value it had when the 
button and the lambda were created, is not stored anywhere, so it cannot be 
used.  I'm not sure it has much to do with assignment.

> I believe you when you say this is how Python
> does it, but I'd like to know what's wrong with
> the model I have.  Can you give me an example
> where my model fails me?  To review, I am saying,
> now just for the sake of argument and
> understanding Python, that the first "=" is
> special and acts like a Scheme LET while
> subsequent "=" with the same variable name in
> scope act like assignments.

No, a statement like 'x = 1' does the same whether x already exists or not: it 
creates an integer object with value 1 (or reuses a cached one, but never mind 
that right now), and binds it to the name 'x' in the current namespace.

HTH,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Sep 26 10:58:33 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:58:33 -0500
Subject: Newbie: Changing a string to a class attribute.
In-Reply-To: <21064255.0309251227.76336087@posting.google.com>
References: <33fbf9ec.0309241210.7acfddb9@posting.google.com> <21064255.0309251227.76336087@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030926145826.GQ32482@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 01:27:24PM -0700, Peter Abel wrote:
> >>> def exec_method(object, method):
> ... 	eval('object.'+method) ()

Why not write
    def exec_method(object, method):
        getattr(object, method)()
no nasty 'eval' there, thank goodness.

Jeff




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 10:15:24 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:15:24 +0300
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4e5emvkvkc8hv6rq281qv73v4da6f2kk26@4ax.com>

On 15 Sep 2003 08:07:07 -0700, rumours say that
paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore) might have written:

[about missing datetime functionality]

>1. Get the last day of the month contatining a given date(time). I
>really was surprised to find this one missing, as it seems to me that
>the datetime module must know what the last day for each month is, so
>exposing it wouldn't have been hard.

I would guess that the simple ones were not included just because they
are only a few lines each:

def end_of_month(a_date):
   year_inc, month_inc = divmod(a_date.month, 12)
   return a_date.__class__(a_date.year+year_inc, 1+month_inc, 1) - \
       datetime.timedelta(days=1)

def month_days(a_date):
   return end_of_month(a_date).day

Examples:

>>> end_of_month(datetime.date.today())
datetime.date(2003, 9, 30)
>>> end_of_month(datetime.datetime(1972,2,11))
datetime.datetime(1972, 2, 29, 0, 0)
>>> month_days(datetime.date.today())
30
>>> end_of_month(datetime.date(1977,12,15))
datetime.date(1977, 12, 31)

The add_months_to_date seems not that hard too, but I don't have a need
for one so far, so I haven't coded it :)  My needs for datetime
intervals are usually of the 'one month start - another month end' kind,
so end_of_month is handy.  If you do think these would be useful, feel
free to use them (or your own versions) for a patch.

Date / timedelta rounding / truncating to various units would have to
take account of many different rules, and none would be very generic
IMHO.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Sep 26 22:15:44 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:15:44 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <AYwcb.2766$RW4.2047@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <wCGcb.3062$yU5.1076@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <zDJcb.3273$RW4.678@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <kp6db.7741$541.373@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Andrew Dalke]
> > >       verfiles = os.listdir('/usr/lib/setup')
> > >       verfiles = [name for name in verfiles
> > >                                if name.startswith("slack-version-")]
> >
> > I like your version better and recommend you submit it as a patch.
> > I'll take out the ifilter() comment.
>
> But that goes against the pretty good motto of "if it ain't broke,
> don't touch it."

Between major releases, refactoring is fair game.  Using newer
constructs like list comprehensions can make this code more
readable and maintainable.


> Granted, XP-style tests are supposed to
> help out with that, but I don't have a /usr/lib/setup where I
> can test this.

Submit a patch, assign to me, and I'll test it.


> > > > random.shuffle() uses for i in xrange(len(x)-1, 0, -1)
> > > This isn't a use case.  The xrange never returns a 0 while
> > > the iter_backwards one will.
> >
> > It is an important use case.  The replacement code is:
> >
> >   for i in xrange(1,len(x)). iter_backwards()
>
> Ahh, right.  Didn't think about that.  You should include that
> wording in the PEP.

Okay, done!


> > Whenever the indices have any complexity, the forwards version,
> > followed by .iter_backwards() is, IMHO, much easier to mentally verify.
>
> I agree.  When I do need to go backwards I often forgot to get
> both -1s in place.  Ie, I'll do (n, 0) instead of (n-1, -1).
> Well, don't forgot much and more, but there's some tension in
> my mind as I worry if I got it correct or not.

That is a key motivation for the pep!


> > Also, I have a preference for creating something that
> > is as robust as possible.  Making a builtin function that
> > doesn't apply to all objects; behaves badly with mappings;
> > and crashes with an infinite iterator is not my idea of robust.
>
> The backup which uses __getitem__ and negative offsets
> does work for all objects, behaves exactly as badly as the
> existing iter, and doesn't crash with an infinite iterator, no?

1.  Sure, all objects that define __getitem__ in a non-mapping
     sense or that don't ignore the index (that was at one time a
     common python practice).

2.  With infinite iterators, running them to completion causes
     the crash.  They can be used in other generators, iterators,
     or loops that have a break.  This is not true with reverse
     iterators where the very first call will cause the crash:

           itertools.count().next()   # this always works
           riter(itertools.count()).next() # this always fails


> That suggests a UserList.ListMixin might be useful, but it
> isn't obvious to me that it would be.

You're the fourth person to suggest it.
If you want to know the issues involved, see my post at:


http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Bebab.9323%24hl4.4031 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net


> Should dicts support riteritems, ritervalues?

Heck no!  I only want reverse iteration for lists, strings, and xrange
where forward and reverse orders make some sense.


>  I also think that with these changes,
> the PEP is pretty complete and solid.

Thanks for the detailed help getting it to that point.


Raymond





From j_k_wd at bellsouth.net  Fri Sep 19 22:43:27 2003
From: j_k_wd at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:43:27 -0400
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
In-Reply-To: <3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9@engcorp.com>
References: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com> <3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200309192243.27913.j_k_wd@bellsouth.net>

As an alternative you could use re.sub()

>>> import re
>>> s = 'chg cbonn_fee'
>>> print re.sub('chg ', '', s)
cbonn_fee


On Friday 19 September 2003 8:11 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Pete Jereb wrote:
> > Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> > win32
> >
> > >>> s = 'chg bonn_fee'
> > >>> print s
> >
> > chg bonn_fee
> >
> > >>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
> >
> > bonn_fee
> >
> > >>> s = 'chg conn_fee'
> > >>> print s
> >
> > chg conn_fee
> >
> > >>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
> >
> > onn_fee
> >
> > Does this make any sense at all?  where did the lead c in conn_fee go?
>
> Based on the behaviour you describe, I would assume lstrip()
> removes, starting at the beginning of the string, all characters
> which are *anywhere* in the argument string you give it, until
> it encounters a character not in that string, at which point it
> stops.
>
> -Peter





From fee at fee.com  Sun Sep 14 14:02:13 2003
From: fee at fee.com (Fooman)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:02:13 GMT
Subject: better use of os.system()
In-Reply-To: <c4e6b17d.0309140835.3408fc52@posting.google.com>
References: <c4e6b17d.0309140835.3408fc52@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <181d118be52ffabbbeaa120340c3f759@news.teranews.com>

> lower: not found
> 
> I want it to run "lower" just like it would if I typed "lower" at the
> bash prompt.  How can I do that?

The problem is that the 'lower' script is not in the path that
the python interpreter knows about.  You can do:

	os.system("/my/nonstandard/pathto/lower")

or, if you are using Linux, or similar, you can try
making sure that your $PATH variable is getting set to
include the path to your script in the environment that
the python interpreter gets launched in.

So, what platform are you running under, and what is the
path to your 'lower' script, and what are the contents
of your $PATH variable?

Tobiah




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep 21 10:38:29 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 10:38:29 -0400
Subject: Starship back
Message-ID: <bkkd55$b6o$1@panix3.panix.com>

The DNS problems with starship.python.net appear to be fixed.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep  1 16:35:08 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 20:35:08 GMT
Subject: exception question
References: <lfp4lv8krqakeea3d0k0tcm86mb2mnf2v3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bj0ahs$mpa$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:22:15 +0100, Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>For error processing I found convenient maintaining a dictionary where
>the keys are exception *classes* and the values are callables. Of
>course, for this to work, exception classes have to be hashable which
>I happily found that they were. So my question is, can I count on this
>behaviour? Or is this behaviour I should not count on? (I found
>nothing on the docs about it, thus the question).
>
Would the class name strings work for you, to avoid the issue?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Sep  1 06:40:31 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:40:31 +0100
Subject: super question
Message-ID: <hv76lv0bl83pou18b7a8k083fi6fra9din@4ax.com>

Hi,

Ok, now I'm really confused. What is supposed

super(<class>, <subclass of class>)

to do?

My thought was that with the following setup:

>>> class Test(object):
... 	def test(self):
... 		return "I'm %r." % self
... 	
>>> class Test2(Test):
... 	def test(self):
... 		return "I'm a no one."
... 	
>>> super(Test, Test2).test
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'super' object has no attribute 'test'

So far so good, object class (the super class of Test) defines no test
method so it barfs. But

>>> super(Test2, Test2).test
<bound method Test2.test of <class '__main__.Test2'>>

Huh? shouldn't it return the *unbound* method test at class Test? And
more:

>>> a = Test2()
>>> super(Test2, Test2).test(a)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: test() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)
>>> super(Test2, Test2).test()
"I'm <class '__main__.Test2'>."
>>> 

A bug? Or my perceptions on what super(<class>, <subclass of class>)
should do are totally mixed up?

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From anuradha.k.r at sify.com  Thu Sep 25 08:57:56 2003
From: anuradha.k.r at sify.com (anuradha.k.r at sify.com)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 05:57:56 -0700
Subject: getting error in socket connection
Message-ID: <57efaf35.0309250457.7c72fb89@posting.google.com>

hi,
i have written a simple socket program in python to connect to a
windows machine.On the server side i am running a windows socket
program which works perfectly fine,my server program waites at
accept() for a connection to be established.on the client side however
i am not able to connect and am getting an error "10061 connection
refused".the code was directly downloaded from sites.
here is the code for client side:

import socket

try:
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
except socket.error:
    print 'socket not creadted'
try:
    s.connect(("130.10.5.38", 9999))
except socket.error,msg:
    print 'error in connect'
 
#s.send('Hello, world')
#data = s.recv(1024)
s.close()
#print 'Received', `data`

i am getting this error on debugging.Can anyone tell what the problem
could be?or is it that i will not be able to connect to awindows
machine or some funda like that.
pls help.
KRA.



From felix_mcallister at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 29 06:43:40 2003
From: felix_mcallister at hotmail.com (Felix McAllister)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:43:40 +0100
Subject: win32traceutil doesn't work in Win32 service when connected via
 Terminal Services
Message-ID: <E1Udb.33948$pK2.62215@news.indigo.ie>

Hi,

We have a Python service that periodically prints trace information using print statements. The service uses the win32traceutil module so that print output can be viewed using win32traceutil.py. This works fine, except for the case when we connect to the server via Microsoft Terminal Services. In that case, we don't see any trace output from the service, although the trace output of other non-service Python apps is fine.

Ideas anyone?

Felix.



From rhf22 at mole.bio.cam.ac.uk  Wed Sep  3 10:40:08 2003
From: rhf22 at mole.bio.cam.ac.uk (Rasmus Fogh)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:40:08 +0100
Subject: multiline repr (code generation)
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.33.0309031452390.6551-100000@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>

Dear All,

I need a way of writing strings or arbitrary Python code that will

a) allow the strings to be read again unchanged (like repr)
b) write multiline strings as multiline strings instead of escaping the
\n's.

A repr function that output triple-quoted strings with explicit
(non-escaped) linebreaks would be perfect.

Failing that, what is the simplest way to get close to the goal?

=======================================================================

Details:

I am working on an automatic code generation project, using Python scripts
to generate Python code.

As part of that I need to:

1) read Python code from a non-Python external file (more precisely, from
storage in a UML editing tool). I do control the strings, but they should
be legible and correct as Python code.

2) write the string to file, in such as way that they will come back
unchanged when the file is imported, e.g.
codeInfo = {'dataConstraint':"""
  my
  multiline
  code string
"""}

3) write the string out to a file as actual executable python code.

4) be able to handle any valid Python code in the string, except for
embedded multiline strings.

5) Have the strings appear as multiline in my various files. A single
400-character line with embedded '\n's may be correct Python code, but it
is so unreadable that I would prefer to avoid it.

If I cannot have all my requirements, I would like the best possible
compromise.

Any helpful suggestions?

Thanks,

Rasmus

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Rasmus H. Fogh                  Email: r.h.fogh at bioc.cam.ac.uk
Dept. of Biochemistry, University of Cambridge,
80 Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1GA, UK.     FAX (01223)766002





From S7211869C at ntu.edu.sg  Thu Sep 18 05:39:55 2003
From: S7211869C at ntu.edu.sg (#TAN THIAM HUAT#)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:39:55 +0800
Subject: MATLAB & Python?
Message-ID: <5c#BRjcfDHA.3144@exchnews1.main.ntu.edu.sg>

can expert out there dealing in this kind of interface between MATLAB and Python?
there is a link 
http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~steriana/Python/pymat.html
 
which might be useful.
any comments or ideas to share are welcome

From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 19:12:48 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 00:12:48 +0100
Subject: list to string
References: <Km68b.2494$YL.621@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87pti66hsf.fsf@pobox.com>

Graham Nicholls <graham at rockcons.co.uk> writes:

> main (args):
>         fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")
> 
> and get an error that open is expecting a string not a list.
[...]

If args is sys.argv, then yup, that's a list.  print is your friend:

main (args):
        print args[1:]
        sys.exit()
        fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")


John



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Sep 12 09:59:26 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:59:26 -0300
Subject: Can This Code Be Made Faster?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F32@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- 
#-         fileTimes = [ ( os.lstat( os.path.join( rootPath, fileName ) 
#- )[stat.ST_MTIME], fileName) for fileName in fileList \
#-                                                              
#-                
#- if os.path.exists( os.path.join( rootPath, fileName ) ) ]
#- 

Don't know how to make it faster, but occurs to me a lot of ways to make
more readable and human understable.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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La informaci?n contenida en este mensaje y cualquier archivo anexo al mismo,
son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
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Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From magoo at magoo.com  Mon Sep  1 16:43:32 2003
From: magoo at magoo.com (Mr. Magoo)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:43:32 GMT
Subject: flagging multiple messages in one command with imaplib?
Message-ID: <magoo-6AE7C3.16452501092003@netnews.attbi.com>

I'm working with imaplib. I'm trying to flag (or move or copy - anything 
that takes a message_set as an argument) a bunch of messages with one 
command and am having trouble.

===

def check_error(typ, data):
   if (typ != 'OK'):
      print typ
      print data[0]
      sys.exit(1)

imapcon = imaplib.IMAP4(HOST)
imapcon.login_cram_md5(USER, PASS)

typ, data = imapcon.select('INBOX')
check_error(typ, data)

typ, data = imapcon.search(None, 'NOT', 'FLAGGED', 'SINCE', 
'28-AUG-2003')
check_error(typ, data)

print data[0]

typ, data = imapcon.store(data[0], "+FLAGS.SILENT", r'(\FLAGGED)')
print typ
print data
check_error(typ, data)


===

When my mail client does this it sends the message numbers unquoted, but 
imaplib seems to quote them, leading to 

imaplib.error: STORE command error: BAD ['Bogus attribute list in STORE']


What am I doing wrong? How do I work with multiple messages in one 
command. (The primary consideration here is speed - 1 command is much 
faster than N when N is large.)

Thanks.
M.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep 11 16:40:10 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 22:40:10 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <3F60B545.6030100@sci.fi> <mailman.1063306316.30786.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3smn3t5xx.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Shane Hathaway <shane at zope.com> writes:

> I wonder whether others would consider such a thing valuable, or even
> feasible. :-)

I consider it valuable, but not feasible. Contrary to your analysis, I
believe the biggest problem with shared memory is pointer/address
management. E.g. if you have a shared list L, and do

L.append(1)

then a reference to the object 1 is put into L[0]. However, the
pointer is only valid in the process writing the reference, not in
other processes. Fixing that is nearly impossible, except *perhaps* by
reimplementing Python from ground up.

Regards,
Martin



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 30 17:44:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:44:10 -0500
Subject: import  _XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <Vzmeb.29908$Of2.1500396@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <XGieb.29792$Of2.1478090@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
        <mailman.1064947483.21334.python-list@python.org>
        <Vzmeb.29908$Of2.1500396@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <16249.63786.930744.205451@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Robert> O.K.
    Robert> But in PyKyra most ever Python file begins with _pyKyra.

You'll have to ask the PyKyra author for a definitive answer.

Skip




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Sep  7 04:06:01 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:06:01 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <fc08a59c.0309062203.56904149@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <P8ydndWa3teLeseiU-KYgw@comcast.com>

"Jonathan Aquino" <Jon_Aquino at shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:fc08a59c.0309062203.56904149 at posting.google.com...
> , I'm simply uncomfortable  when I see(2) the number of
> things  between the parentheses being different for the method
>  declaration and the method call.

If this bothers you enough, and you have a simple class without
inheritance, you *can* write the call in its full form
'class.meth(inst, a, b, ...)' so that you *do* have the same number of
things in declaration and call.  Then revert to the shorter form when
comfortable.  I am beginning to think methods calls should be taught
this way.

Terry J. Reedy





From roberto at dealmeida.net  Fri Sep 26 16:45:54 2003
From: roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De Almeida)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 13:45:54 -0700
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
Message-ID: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com>

I found that when using negative indices, the slice object passed to
__getitem__ depends on the number of slices. An example to clarify:

class a:
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        return index

>>> b = a()
>>> print b[:-1]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: a instance has no attribute '__len__'

But if I pass a "multiple" slice:

>>> print b[:-1,:-1]
(slice(None, -1, None), slice(None, -1, None))

If we add the following __len__ to class a:

    def __len__(self):
        return 42

Then the "single" slice works based on __len__:

>>> print b[:-1]
slice(0, 41, None)

But not for the "multiple" slice:

>>> print b[:-1,:-1]
(slice(None, -1, None), slice(None, -1, None))

I am having these problems because I want to slice a multi-dimensional
object. When slicing the object, __getitem__ returns a Numeric array
of the desired size:

>>> print data               
<opendap.client.dataset instance at 0x406304ec>
>>> print data.variables['u'].shape
(16, 17, 21)
>>> u = data.variables['u'][:,:,:]
>>> print type(u)
<type 'array'>
>>> print u.shape
(16, 17, 21)
>>> u[0,0,0]
-1728

Is there something wrong in using slices like this in objects? A
better way?



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 13:11:47 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 18:11:47 +0100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <878yoe2jsc.fsf@pobox.com>

"Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> writes:

> | ...
> | The Windows installer now ships with documentation 
> | in searchable htmlhelp format, rather than individual 
> | HTML files.
> | ...
> 
> Is the htmlhelp format optional for Windows ??? 
> 
> Sometimes I like to edit the individual HTML docs ....

You can download the HTML docs separately, or decompile the .chm back
to HTML.  See recent threads about this.


John



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep  8 07:38:48 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:38:48 GMT
Subject: win32com: create email message in windows default app?
References: <z9I6b.18545$n94.7236@fed1read04> <bjfpt5$l3s$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr> <TJK6b.18840$n94.10086@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <cTZ6b.29715$hE5.1059970@news1.tin.it>

Mark Hahn wrote:


>> But what is "windows default email application" ?
> 
> I don't know, except that windows applications such as outlook and outlook
> express will ask "Outlook is no longer the default email application,
> would
> you like to make it the default?".  So somebody somewhere inside of
> windows thinks there is a default.
> 
> Also, when you click on a mailto: link in a web browser, only one mail
> message comes up from one mail application, so it must be the default
> email
> application.  How do I get to that default email application and tell it
> to open a message for me?

What about "opening" the mailto URL you need with Windows' "start"?  e.g.
    os.system("start mailto:foo at bar.com")
?  Or of course you may use more advanced COM Monicker handling for
the "mailto:etc" monicker -- I'm sure the COM parts of win32all and/or
ctypes let you muck with Monickers as needed (even though the internals
of low-level Monicker API's, as I recall from my Windows days, are as
mucky as the overall functionality is neat, still, if the functionality
of "start" isn't sufficient, low-level Monicker API's will no doubt
give you all that it IS feasible to obtain on Windows for this purpose),

Oh btw,

    os.system('start "mailto:foo at bar.com?subject=what ever"')

if you want to pump the subject into the msg as well as the recipient.


Alex




From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep 25 03:39:12 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:39:12 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <AYwcb.2766$RW4.2047@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Raymond Hettinger:
> Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.

It says:
] Also, it only works with lists (strings, for example, do not define a
reverse method):
]
] rseqn = list(seqn)
] rseqn.reverse()
] for value in rseqn:
]     print value

However, the example code will work on a string, because list(string)
returns a list, which does have a reverse.

] Extending slicing minimizes the code overhead but does nothing
] for memory efficiency, beauty, or clarity.

I don't agree with all three of those.  Take for example your mhlib
use case

  testfolders.reverse();
  for t in testfolders:
      do('mh.deletefolder(%s)' % `t`)

The PEP suggests that

  for t in testfolders.iter_backwards():
      do('mh.deletefolder(%s)' % `t`)

is more beautiful and clearer than

  for t in testfolders[::-1]:
      do('mh.deletefolder(%s)' % `t`)

(It definitely is more memory efficient if there are enough
folders.)

I don't think I agree with that.  If I'm not concerned about memory
efficiency then extended slicing is nice because I don't have to
learn nor explain one more thing.  ("There should be one ...")

The beauty and clarity, at least to me, only come into play
when memory is a concern, which is only rarely true for most
of the times iter_backwards is expected to be used.  (Estimate
based on the use cases and my own judgement.)

] Should file objects be included? Implementing reverse iteration
] may not be easy though it would be useful on occasion.

I would suggest no - the file may not be seekable.

You suggest changing
]  while _exithandlers:
]     func, targs, kargs = _exithandlers.pop()
to
] for func, target, kargs in _exithandlers.iter_backwards():
]     . . .
] del _exithandlers

One thing to bear in mind is that the semantics are slightly
different.  In the first one, the finalizers for func, targs, kargs
*may* be called from last to first.  This is the case for
CPython if there are no other references to the _exithandlers
objects.  But since Python-the-language makes no guarantees
on that and Jython doesn't support it, it's a bad idea to write
code that way.

That is only a very, very minor nit.  Feel free to ignore it :)


In difflib, I disagree that
   result.sort()
   return [x for score, x in result[-n:].iter_backwards()]

is easier to understand than
  result.sort()           # Retain only the best n.
  result = result[-n:]    # Move best-scorer to head of list.
  result.reverse()        # Strip scores.
  return [x for score, x in result]

The former is more terse, but the latter, existing code is
broken down into bite-size chunks and allows verbose
documentation of each step.  That isn't possible when
nearly everything is written in one line.

Also, a variant implementation may be even more concise,
which is to replace
            result.append((s.ratio(), x))
with
            result.append((-s.ratio(), x))
then get rid of the reverse (since the minus sign reverses the
sort order) and simply do

   result.sort()
   return [x for score, x in result[:n]]


] heapq.heapify() uses for i in xrange(n//2 - 1, -1, -1)

The proposed form is

    for i in xrange(n//2-1).iter_backwards():

Later in your post you mention a reason against a function
which uses __riter__ magic is that it is "slower than direct
access to the underlying object."

If that's a concern then you should also point out that using
iter_backwards for cases like this is slower than the existing
solution.  (It has an extra attr lookup and function call.  OTOH,
doesn't the -1, -1 require two calls of the negative unary op
code, or has that been fixed?  Good, it has, says dis on
some test code.)

] platform._dist_try_harder() uses for n in range(len(verfiles)-1,-1,-1)
] because the loop deletes selected elements from verfiles but needs
] to leave the rest of the list intact for further iteration. This use case
] could be addressed with itertools.ifilter() but would require the
] selection predicate to be in a lambda expression. The net result is
] less clear and readable than the original. A better reformulation is
] to replace the first line with the proposed method.

Are you sure about that?  The code is

        verfiles = os.listdir('/usr/lib/setup')
        for n in range(len(verfiles)-1, -1, -1):
            if verfiles[n][:14] != 'slack-version-':
                del verfiles[n]

I think a better reformulation is

      verfiles = os.listdir('/usr/lib/setup')
      verfiles = [name for name in verfiles
                               if name.startswith("slack-version-")]

(you could put the os.listdir in the list comp. but I've
found that gets ungainly.)

] random.shuffle() uses for i in xrange(len(x)-1, 0, -1)

This isn't a use case.  The xrange never returns a 0 while
the iter_backwards one will.

>>> list(xrange(5, 0, -1))
[5, 4, 3, 2, 1]
>>>

] Rejected Alternative Ideas

There were two intermediate 'reverse' proposals.  Here's the four
I know about:

 - call the magic method __riter__

 - call the magic method __riter__.  If it doesn't exist, use
      for i in xrange(len(obj)): yield obj[i]

  - call the magic method __riter__.  If it doesn't exist, use
      for i in itertools.count(): yield[obj[-i]]

(this has the advantage of supporting the infinite sequence
  0, 1, 2, ... -3, -2, -1
)

  - same as the 2nd but if len doesn't exist use
       data = list(obj)
       data.reverse()
       for x in data: yield x

I agree with the conclusion that the last three have unexpected
interactions with mappings.  However, iter *also* has unexpected
interactions with mappings.

>>> class Dict:
...    def keys(self):
...       return [0, 1, 2, 4]
...    def __getitem__(self, key):
...       if key not in self.keys(): raise KeyError(key)
...         return key * 2
...    def values(self):
...       return [self[x] for x in self.keys()]
...    def items(self): return zip(self.keys(), self.values())
...    def len(self): return len(self.keys())
...
>>> for x in Dict():
...  print x
...
0
2
4
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<interactive input>", line 5, in __getitem__
KeyError: 3
>>>

While I think I was the one who originally raised this
objection, given the way Python already behaves wrt
mappings, I retract my objection.

Another possibility, which I just thought of now, is
  - call the magic method __riter__.  If it doesn't exist, look
       for the reverse-iterator adapter, as per PEP-0246.

I don't have any experience with the PEP to judge its
appropriateness nor usefulness.  The motivation section
seems to suggest that it would be appropriate.


In your post list a set of problems with the function approaches.

>    It saves implementing some object methods at the
>       expense of adding a new builtin function and of
>       creating a new magic method name.
>    It is slower than direct access to the underlying object.
>    It crashes when applied to an infinite iterator.
>    It produces bizarre results when applied to mappings.

I would like to see this list added to the PEP.  I do have'
some qualifiers for the list.

  - it doesn't need to be a global function; it could be in,
      say, itertools.  (I know I originally suggested it as a builtin,
      but I'm not saying I'm right ;)

  - (see comments above that xrange(5).iter_backwards()
      is likely slower than xrange(5, -1, -1) because of the
      extra lookup and call)

  - the first variant, which only looks for __riter__ and raises
     an exception if it doesn't exist, has exactly the same problems
     with infinite iterators as calling the new method.

  - similarly, it doesn't have additional problems with mappings.


Also, none of the use cases dealt with infinite sequences so
the lack of appropriate support for them shouldn't be considered
an outright rejection.

BTW, my current belief is that if this PEP leads to code
then it should be:
  - a new function, either builtin or in itertools

  - which uses __riter__ if present (unless we decide to
      use the adapt PEP)

  - else uses "for i in itertools.count(): yield[obj[-i]]"


                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Sep 23 08:56:07 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:56:07 -0300
Subject: Memory allocation
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FDC@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- a pickle is just a serialized (i.e. flat) representation of the data
#- as a series of bytes, right?  In other words, a string?  So 
#- call len()
#- on it...  (as I said, that sounds too easy so I must be 
#- missing something).

The detail is that I *already have* the serialized object in disk, so:

	1. Load the pickled object from disk (already must)
	2. Unpickle the object to memory (already must)
	3. Keep the "backup" pickled object in memory
	4. ...
	5. Pickle the object (already must)
	6. Compare to the backup object
	7. If different, write to disk (already must)

So, the only overhead in the change of process is 

	1) keep the backup pickled object in memory: can do this if the
memory space overhead is not too big. 
	2) compare the serialized objects: if is to prevent a disk access,
makes the system faster.




From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Thu Sep 25 17:46:04 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:46:04 GMT
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com> <m3fzinp4k0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309251050.77c86735@posting.google.com> <JMIcb.122892$bo1.24537@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <wmJcb.122907$bo1.8337@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Me:

> for an illustrative but incorrect example
> "ca~non".upper() -> {'portugal':'CANON','spain':'CA~NON'}),

   For a real example from the Microsoft web site, uppercasing "indigo"
(u'\u0069\u006e\u0064\u0069\u0067\u006f') gives "INDIGO"
(u'\u0049\u004e\u0044\u0049\u0047\u004f') for English-US and similar but
with dots above the 'I's for Turkish:
(u'\u0130\u004e\u0044\u0130\u0047\u004f').

   Neil





From pxtl at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 22:18:18 2003
From: pxtl at hotmail.com (martin z)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 02:18:18 GMT
Subject: scoping with lambda in loops
References: <7f9e1817.0309161338.20fbdcbc@posting.google.com> <eppstein-D67C09.15312816092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <KvP9b.49089$DZ.34699@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

> a = []
> for index in range(5):
>     a.append(lambda index=index: index)
>
> or maybe more concisely
>
> a = [lambda index=index: index for index in range(5)]

You know how Python is supposed to be executable pseudocode?  Well that
stuff is farking ugly.  If I handed pseudocode like that into any TA in one
of my classes, I'd be toast.  Is there any way to do that in a legible
manner?





From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Sep  5 10:13:08 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:13:08 +0200
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
In-Reply-To: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
Message-ID: <3F5899F4.1080702@ghaering.de>

Grzegorz Staniak wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm a newbie Python user, a systems administrator - I've been trying
> to switch from Perl to Python for administrative tasks - and one thing 
> I cannot understand so far is why I need the special 'self' (or anything
> esle) argument in class method definitions. I might have missed an
> explanation in the docs, a quick Google search did not help. Is there
> somewhere on the web you could direct me to?

This entry of the Python FAQ:

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-must-self-be-used-explicitly-in-method-definitions-and-calls

-- Gerhard




From mleeds at mlp.com  Fri Sep 19 10:16:37 2003
From: mleeds at mlp.com (Leeds, Mark)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:16:37 -0400
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB5704@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>

python : i am a python novice and i
am reading in a text file of say 500
lines with the fields in each line elimited by a "|" and
there are 90 records in each line.
 
my normal reading of text lines  algorithm
( using readlines, and then strip the "|" and then append into a list) 
seems to be working
strangely because it's
reading  all 500 lines in as one big list
instead of a list of lists like it usually does.
i guess the lines don't have the tabs or
returns that make python realize that
it's onto a new line.
unfortunately, the file was
created from a P.C and I use unix so it probably has something
to do with this.
 
so, my question is , is it possible
to take the one big list that
i have now and tell python
to take the fields in the list
and make a list of lists where
each sub list is composed of every 90
items in the list ? I imagine this
might be possible because
Python seems very powerful for
this type of stuff ? thanks.
i really appreciate it.
 
 
                            mark 
 
p.s : i was going to include part
of the file but then I realized that  i would have to transfer it back
to the 
pc ( because i only have pc email ) which defeats the whole purpose.
 
 
 
 
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From john at rygannon.com  Fri Sep 19 07:01:20 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:01:20 GMT
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063856727.16858.python-list@python.org> <87r82e6yxg.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3f6ae213$0$10985$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi John
Ken is absolutely correct.

-- 
Best Regards
John



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep  2 12:53:17 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:53:17 -0400
Subject: Counsel bears (OT, Re: how fast is Python?)
References: <fbf8d8f2.0308201208.3b9c2d01@posting.google.com> <3F44DFEB.60AB6492@engcorp.com> <vkhl98pfvs6r34@corp.supernews.com> <e9570f37.0308280618.1faa6306@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062240014.19619.python-list@python.org> <9ph1lvop5980bs55flk4jfvhqie79dmnlq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F54CAFD.A4006F15@engcorp.com>

Marc Wilson wrote:
> 
> In comp.lang.python,  Juha Autero <Juha.Autero at iki.fi> (Juha Autero) wrote
> in <mailman.1062240014.19619.python-list at python.org>::
> 
> |graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett) writes:
> |
> |> If we each had at least /one/ wise counsel bear, then c.l.py would
> |> certainly reap the benefits of our enhanced posts!
> |
> |That reminds me of a story I probably read from The Practice of
> |Programming by Brian W. Kernighan and Rob Pike. In some university
> |(I've forgotten the name) students doing programming exercises had to
> |explain their problem to a teddy bear before they could talk to course
> |staff. This was because often just explaining the problem helped you
> |to understand the problem and then you could fix it.
> 
> The term I coined for this is "echo debugging". :)

I once spent about two hours in a debugging session with a friend.
We were away from the computer, discussing the problem, with a 
whiteboard, diagrams, lots of talking....  after we found the 
solution I said something about wow, that's great, we solved it.

My friend said, "Peter... _I_ didn't even say anything!".  :-)

-Peter



From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 13:22:31 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:22:31 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
In-Reply-To: <Hy_cb.75290$PD3.4793996@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <Xns9402A53AD8C02duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <vn8r00p0brg98c@news.supernews.com> <Hy_cb.75290$PD3.4793996@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <rB_cb.75291$PD3.4793996@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Nicolas Fleury wrote:
> John Roth wrote:
> 
>> "Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
>> And you can parenthesize a surprisingly large number of places. One
>> that I learned just recently was that the entire operand string of the
>> print statement can be put into parenthesis.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
> print (1,2) prints a tuple while print 1,2 prints a different thing.

Ok, print (1) doesn't print a tuple... forget my question...

Nicolas




From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sat Sep 27 16:52:46 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:52:46 +0200
Subject: [joke] Any tool to translate PHP to Python?
In-Reply-To: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f75f5b8$0$20650$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Bruce Dickey wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have some PHP scripts I'm moving from my web server to the local PC. 
> They just do file manipulation.
> 
> Anybody know of a tool for translating PHP to Python? 

Er... What about a programmer ?-)

(sorry, could not resist)
Bruno




From cnetzer at sonic.net  Tue Sep  9 19:54:59 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 16:54:59 -0700
Subject: Internal states..
In-Reply-To: <03E2314F.4437628D.A05AB946@netscape.net>
References: <03E2314F.4437628D.A05AB946@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <1063151699.1863.28.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 15:00, ryan10975073 at netscape.net wrote:

>  What i would like to know is what the word 'internal states' means with context to seed value??

When you set the seed, you are setting the "internal state" of the
random number generator.  So every time you set the seed to, for
example, 42, you will start to produce the exact same sequence of random
numbers.  The "internal state" is just all the information needed for
this to happen.  For simple RNGs it may be a single integer, or perhaps
two or three integers.

What the manual is saying is that even though you can supply (for
example), a 32 bit seed, only 24 bits of state data is really kept
internally.  Ie. the 32 bits get mapped down to 2**24 real, distinct
starting seeds.  I'm not sure why, in this case, but probably due to
compatibility with older (possibly 8-bit CPU?) versions.  The internal
state itself may be more than 24 bits, but you still have at most 2**24
distinct sequences of random values (they all start looping at some
point).

This has implications if you (for example) are doing statistical tests
on the seed values to see how distinct the generated sequences are.  Or
if you assign "seeds" thinking they all produce distinct sequences of
values; they don't.

The topic of random number generation is an interesting and surprisingly
complicated one.  There are much better and more advanced RNG that are
now "state of the art", such as the Mersenne Twister (part of
Python2.3), and "cryptographic random number generation" which is WAY
beyond what whrand provides.

PS. pedants, please correct any misinformation; I'm winging this one.

-- 
Chad Netzer





From max at alcyone.com  Wed Sep 10 18:17:33 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:17:33 -0700
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F82A5.7DB9A717@alcyone.com> <3F5F9A02.D1A5ACAA@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <3F5FA2FD.D7E936B5@alcyone.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:

> This style supports only output-driven processes.  The generator,
> being on the input side, is always the server, and the output
> side is always the client.  It doesn't fit the situation where the
> input is heterogeneous and input has to get spewed in several
> directions, depending on its content.

The distinction you're making is push vs. pull processing.  To get what
you want, you should use some sort of asynchronous mechanism with
synchronization when data is transferred.  Threading with the use of the
Queue module comes to mind immediately.  Other forms of asynchronous
processing are certainly possible, as well.

That being said, calling the next method of a generator _is_ the obvious
inverse process of a generator yielding a value.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Forever we / Infinitely
\__/  Sandra St. Victor



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 16:37:32 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:37:32 -0400
Subject: how to write-protect names
References: <3F68C499.1060604@aon.at>
Message-ID: <3F68C60C.AC611276@engcorp.com>

Gregor Lingl wrote:
> 
> is it possible to "write-protect" a definite
> set of names of a module, especially of the
> __main__ module?
> If so, how?

Almost anything is possible at some level in Python, although,
likewise, almost anything can be broken at another level.

What exactly do you need this for?  If you describe the purpose
you have in mind for it we can provide the best approach, or 
tell you that we don't think you should bother. ;-)

-Peter



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 30 10:50:19 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:50:19 GMT
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za> <DIaeb.142010$hE5.4836948@news1.tin.it> <8e4jnvgmkcs0v1p8vneln8d12r99s2t49f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LKgeb.197302$R32.6338774@news2.tin.it>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:58:27 GMT, rumours say that Alex Martelli
> <aleax at aleax.it> might have written:
> 
>>charmap = {}
>>for c in chr: charmap[c] = c+'\\'
> 
> I believe you meant charmap[c] = '\\' + c ...

Sure, if the original poster wants the backslash BEFORE the character
(the "append" in the subject suggested to me he wanted it AFTER).


Alex




From roy at panix.com  Sun Sep 14 22:28:39 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:28:39 -0400
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
Message-ID: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com>

My apologies for a somewhat silly posting, but after 6 years of hacking 
Python, I finally found a use for lambda!  I wanted to write a unit test 
to prove that a given dictionary does not have a given key.  Since 
assertRaises requires its second argument to be something callable, 
instead of writing:

        self.assertRaises (KeyError, foo['bar'])

I had to write:

        self.assertRaises (KeyError, lambda: foo['bar'])

Of course, now that I think about it, I could have also written:

        self.assertEqual (foo.has_key ('bar')), 0)

so I guess I didn't really need the lambda after all :-)



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 28 18:05:12 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 15:05:12 -0700
Subject: [joke] Any tool to translate PHP to Python?
References: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com> <3f75f5b8$0$20650$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <vncdncfj0csgdf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0309281309.267f4d5c@posting.google.com>

> [Bruce Dickey]
> > [Bruno Desthuilliers]
> > Bruce Dickey wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I have some PHP scripts I'm moving from my web server to the local PC. 
> >> They just do file manipulation.
> >>
> >> Anybody know of a tool for translating PHP to Python? 
> > 
> > 
> > Er... What about a programmer ?-)
> > 
> > (sorry, could not resist)
> > Bruno
> > 
> 
> Heh heh. Point taken. I actually *was* assuming I would be the tool -- 
> ...
> It seems to me that for folks migrating from PHP to Python, a translator 
> would be a handy tool. 

Um, was the point was really taken?  Translating programming languages
is *very* hard.  Otherwise, it would be possible to just translate
Python to C, with all the obvious benefits.

Perhaps automatic translation of some standard PHP patterns is
possible?  No, still too hard.  Think about it.

-- 
The subspace _W inherits the other 8 properties of _V. And there
aren't even any property taxes.
                -- J. MacKay, Mathematics 134b



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Sep 12 07:48:59 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:48:59 GMT
Subject: ftplib question: how to upload files?
References: <mailman.1063305377.21943.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Loi8b.1$3Y2.0@news2.central.cox.net>

<python at sarcastic-horse.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063305377.21943.python-list at python.org...
> Hi:
>
> I want to write a procedure to automatically upload some files for me, but
> I'm getting stuck.  Before I write my own gruesome put() function, I
> wanted to check if there is an easier way.
>
> Here's what I can do so far:
> >>>import ftplib
> >>>conn = ftplib.FTP('ftp.example.com')
> >>>conn.login(user='userid', passwd='passwd')
> >>>conn.cwd('/var/www/html/incoming')
>
> What do I do to send files?
>
> I have three files I want to upload, but I'm not sure what to do.  I hoped
> to find a ftplib.put() method, but it looks like ftplib is a low-level
> interface.
>
> All help is welcome.
>

See if the code in

    http://www.holdenweb.com/Python/PDCode/ftpStream.py

will help. It's supposed to make FTP easier.

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 16 15:32:35 2003
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:32:35 +0100
Subject: Datetime utility functions
References: <182bcf76.0309150707.3a8c0482@posting.google.com> <vmbopdqfn1ri59@news.supernews.com>
 <brtl7s6v.fsf@yahoo.co.uk> <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1063730723.18092.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k788leb0.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Carel Fellinger <carel.fellinger at chello.nl> writes:

> On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 05:19:50PM +0300, Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> ...
>> I sent my own version without having seen your own --and mine might seem
>> obfuscated, compared to yours.
>
> you both use the same indirect way of getting to the end of the month.
> why not do what datetime.c does, like:

Mainly because that seems even more like reinventing the wheel.
Writing code that already exists is something I dislike doing at the
best of times. Writing *tricky* code that already exists feels even
more unpleasant. (Yes, I know the leap year calculation isn't that
hard - but lots of people have got it wrong in the past...)

I guess that's my real issue. I know the datetime module already has
this information. But persuading it to tell me requires me to jump
through hoops, whereas reimplementing it feels like admitting defeat.

None of it's hard, though. I've spent more time on emails about the
issue than I'd ever need to spend in implementing anything :-)

Paul.
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 13:29:27 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:29:27 +0100
Subject: Jython class names
References: <mailman.1063125556.24234.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lknouJA33gX$EwbR@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1063125556.24234.python-list at python.org>, Michael
Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes
>Peter Otten writes:
......
>
>Apparently that version of Jython includes the same small int optimization
>but lacks the small string optimization. Really, if you want the answer
>to be reliable, use "==" instead of "is" for immutables.
>
>
>-- Michael Chermside
>
>
yes no problem, but I had thought that all id style strings were
interned in python for efficiency in indexing etc etc. It's not a
problem in this case, but normally I expect D['id'] to be the same as
D['id'] for dicts and it seems this is not obviously true in jython.
Thanks for putting this so forcefully.
-- 
Robin Becker



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 23 09:28:49 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:28:49 -0400
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <3F6F86A2.DC29472A@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix>
Message-ID: <3F704A91.FA7D31F7@engcorp.com>

Riccardo Attilio Galli wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:32:50 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Todd Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >> On a similar note, I want to save the password to a
> >> file. How do I encrypt the password?
> >
> > You don't encrypt passwords, you hash them.  That means use a
> > cryptographically strong hashing algorithm such as SHA or MD5
> > and store the resulting value.  Later, when a user has entered
> > a password which you want to check against the correct one, you
> > run the same hash algorithm on the password-under-test and compare
> > the result with the stored result.
> > [...]
> 
> what about if I would reload an entered password?
> I wrote an e-mail client, and I haven't found a way to store the password
> that an user enter the first time and use it when the program is restarted.
> I don't want to ask to the user every time the account password, but also
> I don't want to store it as plain text.
> Do you know what is the usual practice in these cases?

As near as I can understand your questions, the approach I provided 
solves all these issues.  You need to do a little research into this
stuff on the web, or do some experimentation, before you'll understand
it well enough to use it, perhaps.

In a nutshell, this is the point: you never use the plaintext form of
the password.  As soon as it is entered, you convert it to a hash.  You
store the hash, and if a user later enters a password and you need to
check it, you convert *it* to a hash and compare the hashes.  Never, 
ever, store or compare plain text passwords.  Does that help?

-Peter



From nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep  2 10:00:53 2003
From: nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net (KC)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:00:53 -0400
Subject: htmllib.py and parsing malformed HTML [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <JP%4b.4205$tH.3863@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
References: <G1T4b.2227$gJ.1163@bignews3.bellsouth.net> <bj1sh5$e9i7j$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <JP%4b.4205$tH.3863@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <Cm15b.3158$gJ.3033@bignews3.bellsouth.net>

KC wrote:
> 
> What would be really nice is a way to tell the parser it was "inside" a 
> <TR> when I encountered a <TD> after a closing </TR>.  Browsers still 
> display the HTML correctly without a starting <TR>, but if the closing 
> </TR> is omitted everything gets mangled.
> 
I solved this problem, perhaps not the most elegant way, but it is still 
solved.  Any suggestions on improvements are welcome.  I added the 
following method to my parser class to make this work:


   def parse_endtag(self, i) :
     rawdata = self.rawdata
     tag = rawdata[i+2:i+4].strip().lower()
     if tag == 'tr' :
       self.fmtr.writer.send_tag('</TR>')
     return htmllib.HTMLParser.parse_endtag(self, i)


I should also mention that I added the send_tag method to my writer 
implementation which simply writes the given text to the output stream.





From jlg at python.org  Mon Sep 15 10:45:35 2003
From: jlg at python.org (Johannes Gijsbers)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:35 +0200
Subject: list of lists
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.15.14.45.34.979098@python.org>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:59:56 +0200, Tom wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have a list that consists of lists. E.g. T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
> Is there a way to address the a specific component in the "inner" list
> directly?
> E.g. right now I want to get the second value of the first list.
> Unfortunately I have to save it to a variable first and then read it. a =
> T[0]
> print a[1]

Try using T[0][1]. T[0] is exactly equivalent to 'a', so you can use
the same operations, you don't have to assign to 'a' first.

Johannes





From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Sat Sep 13 12:31:36 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:31:36 +0400
Subject: Algorithmic complexity of StringIO?
In-Reply-To: <roy-D61DB4.12151913092003@reader2.panix.com>
References: <roy-D61DB4.12151913092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bjvgp8$134c$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Roy Smith wrote:

> I want to build up a long string piece by piece without the quadratic 
> behavior of string concatenation.  I'm looking at the {c,}StringIO 
> modules as a way around this, but I don't see anything in the docs which 
> talks about how they work.  If I do
> 
> s = StringIO.StringIO()
> while whatever:
>    s.write (stringFragment)
> return s.getvalue()
> 
> will I see quadratic behavior?  cStringIO claims to be more efficient, 
> but doesn't say how.  Is it algorithmicly better, or just the same 
> algorithm recoded in C?
> 
> The context here is writing a __str__() method for a container class.  I 
> could envision the containiner holding a couple thousand items, with 
> len(__str__()) being several 10's of kbytes.

Hello, Roy!

Common idiom is to use join method:

bunch_of_strings = ["aaa", ... "zzz"]

result = ''.join(bunch_of_strings)

If I'm correct, join preallocates needed space.

hth,
anton.




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 13:34:22 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:34:22 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
In-Reply-To: <3F745445.D9628351@engcorp.com>
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <3F745445.D9628351@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <zM_cb.75296$PD3.4794304@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> What should Python do in the following case?
> 
>    a = 5 +
>    someFunc(a)
> 
> Okay, you want it to quietly add 5 and the result of someFunc() together and 
> assign to "a".  What if I told you that I actually had intended to add 5
> plus "b" and assign to a, then call someFunc() and discard the return value.
> 
> You've just turned a nice clean error message from the compiler into a 
> silent and possibly deadly bug.

What if the second line would be indented?  Indentation is already used 
to determine blocks, why not instructions?  For example, the following 
is not error-prone at all:

a = 5 +
     someFunc()

Doesn't it stay with python minimalistic philosophy?

Regards,

Nicolas




From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 15:22:30 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:22:30 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <3335321.1062775466@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <bjanqo$elg$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"yeung_too" <yeung_too at yahoo.com.hk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3335321.1062775466 at dbforums.com...
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
>     My college used C for beginner course and use Java to demostrate OO
>     concept. Anyway, I tried python and found that it is a very good
>     language. I think many people spend time on Java and university uses
>     Java because Sun Microsystem spends much money to promote and
>     develop the Java language. I just feel that our world spends most
>     time on promote things, rich company can promote computer language
>     very well. Open source without huge money support, people may
>     dislike their product. What do you think, But i really like open
>     source ideas, it improves our world, not just $$$.
>
I don't think so much Python will improve our world. There are strong forces
(not only $$$) enforcing the use of other languages like Java (the COBOL of
the 21st century), C++, C# (both quite similar to Java), a little bit PHP 4
here and there and - of course! - still C (the machine independent assembly
language).

If you ever want to use your programming skills to earn money, become expert
in one of those.

What are the forces then? In all the companies - especially the smaller
ones - I worked with we used MS Office and C/C++.  Because when you are
looking for a secretary she probably will know MS Office, and when you are
looking for a progarmmer he most likely will know C.

This is a kind of mathematical law ;-)

Kindly
Michael P





From me at privacy.net  Tue Sep 23 06:27:44 2003
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 06:27:44 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <r2Qbb.195$eB.185@twister.southeast.rr.com> <18kvmvobs9jsq50o91m35cveu49heev7mh@4ax.com> <oprvxtxmiq5ctagx@shawnews>
Message-ID: <m2zngvsstb.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:35:57 GMT,
Jordan Krushen <jordan at krushen.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:08:06 +0100, Stephen Horne wrote:
>> for ever :
>> <statements>
>> break if <condition> :

> You could always hide something similar in a generator:


> def forever():
>      while True: yield True

> for now in forever():
>      print 'looping forever...'


> ...although I must admit, I don't really mind "while True:" that
> much.

Don't forget that values other than "True" are true, too
(shamelessly stolen from a previous post from Tim Peters):

    # basic file iteration (which can be done in other ways, but
    # simply demonstrates my point)
    while "there is another line in the file":
        nextlinefromfile = getnextlinefromfile( )
        if not nextlinefromfile:
            break
        moresprocessing( )

    # typical server-like endless loop
    while "[heck] has not frozenover":
        command = getnextcommand( )
        actoncommand( command )

strings-are-true'ly yours,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli



From http  Sat Sep  6 12:20:27 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 09:20:27 -0700
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <7xekytkhx0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:
>     If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
> if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?

Whaaat??  Where did you hear that the UK has anywhere near as much gun
violence as the US??  I've always heard it's much lower.  Do you have
a cite?

> For that matter why is it in several other European nations
> (Netherlands and Switzerland IIRC) where there is a legal
> requirement for all males over a certain age to be armed (standing
> militia) that there is so little gun related violence?

Just Switzerland, and those guns are rifles and they take special ammo
that is issued to you in sealed cans that you keep in your house in
case you'er called up for service.  It's not a handgun that you can
easily go mug someone with.  And as someone else put it, it's not your
gun, it's the government's gun and every so often a government
inspector comes to your house to make sure you still have the gun and
ammo and that the ammo cans are still sealed.  I don't know what
happens to you if they find the ammo they issued you is partly used up
outside of official exercises, but it can't be anything nice.  It's
nothing like the US where you can buy as many handguns as you want and
shoot them whenever you want.



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep 15 11:42:35 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:42:35 -0500
Subject: Multiple instances of modules
In-Reply-To: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
References: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16229.56811.805496.99869@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Daniel> For example, say I made a CD.py module which held details of an
    Daniel> audio compact dic (album name, track names, etc..), and wanted
    Daniel> my Python script to make a record collection using multiple
    Daniel> CD's, I can't make them seperately. 

You don't want to use modules for this.  You need to define a CD class
(perhaps within the CD module) and instantiate it for each album.

Skip




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Sep 10 03:08:18 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:08:18 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at
 runtime?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F5ECDE2.40206@mxm.dk>

Marco Herrn wrote:

> I am writing a program that has to instantiate a class from which I
> don't know the name until runtime. That leads to two problems for me.


Is there any reason not to use a standard factory pattern for this? It 
is the normal approach.


# Factory.py

import class1, class2, class3

def Factory(class_type):
     if class_type='class1':
         return class1()
     elif class_type='class2':
         return class2()
     elif class_type='class2':
         return class3()



# using the factory
from Factory import Factory
myObject = Factory(class2)


regards Max M




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 15:45:30 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 20:45:30 +0100
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
[...]
> This sounds like a good opportunity to read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
> Maintenance" (by Robert Pirsig) if you have not already.  It's certainly
> about IT, and ties into "The Zen of Python" (by Tim Peters) nicely, too. :-)

Don't read it, it's a pile of junk.  :-)  IMNSHO.


> (Failing that, or if you've already read it, I'd suggest one of the XP
> books, probably the white one as it was first, or the TDD book, and either 
> way Kent Beck gets your money. :-)

A much better idea.

Another one, that comes to mind for two reasons: "Secrets and Lies" by
Bruce Schneier.  First, it's fascinating and informative stuff on the
subject of real-world computer security, but second, it's a pleasure
to read, and often quite funny.  If you insist on reading something
technical while in hospital, this will at least make you smile from
time to time!

In the same area, an even more fun and readable book, "The Cuckoo's
Egg" by Clifford Stoll.  You've probably heard of it before -- sold a
lot of copies, I think.  A ripping yarn about the 'true story' (it
really is a true story, but who knows how much elaboration and
reconstruction it underwent for the book ;-) of how Cliff unearthed a
hacker in the early days of wide-area networking.  You won't put it
down.


John



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Sep 24 14:18:00 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:18:00 GMT
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <sdlcb.286$kD3.107@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

> | The Windows installer now ships with documentation
> | in searchable htmlhelp format, rather than individual
> | HTML files.
> | ...
>
> Is the htmlhelp format optional for Windows ???
>
> Sometimes I like to edit the individual HTML docs ....

Yes, you can still download the individual HTML files at:
   http://www.python.org/ftp/python/doc/2.3.1/


Raymond Hettinger





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 16 17:51:56 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:51:56 +0200
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hilde Roth wrote:

> This may have been asked before but I can't find it. If I have
> a rectangular list of lists, say, l = [[1,10],[2,20],[3,30]], is
> there a handy syntax for retrieving the ith item of every sublist?
> I know about [i[0] for i in l] but I was hoping for something more
> like l[;0].

If efficiency is not an issue and/or you need 
[item[index] for item in theList] for more than one index at a time, you can
do:

>>> s = [[1,2],[3,4]]
>>> t = zip(*s)
>>> t
[(1, 3), (2, 4)]
>>> t[1]
(2, 4)
>>>

This creates a transposed (?) copy of the "matrix". The side effect of
creating tupples instead of inner lists should do no harm if you need only
read access to the entries.

Peter



From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Thu Sep 11 19:27:01 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:27:01 +1000
Subject: python on mac (os x): application automation
Message-ID: <bjr0bd$284m$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi there

i have just started with mac development and i use applescript at the moment
for iTunes and iPhoto automation.

but i'd like to do it from python. does anybody know weather  that's
possible and if there is a add on for that?

thanks, leo





From mailto  Thu Sep 18 08:34:46 2003
From: mailto (Philipp Neuhaus)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:34:46 +0200
Subject: [NEWBIE] How to call an external program
Message-ID: <2f9jmvcct6ai7dcg1ghhmm6bc7beuo18h0@4ax.com>

Hi,
I want to convert an image file, so I have to call an external
program.
How can I do this?

(i want to call "sfftobmp -tifs input tempfile" and "tiff2ps tempfile*
| ps2pdf [output]")

Philipp



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 17:12:49 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:12:49 GMT
Subject: Python ISPs
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ldpab.6066$9G2.3962@twister.southeast.rr.com>

It seems that Spyce uses underlaying Python, either CGI or mod_python.
I have only CGI Python (Windows XP, Apache) and Spyce works quite well.

PS. I know, this doesn't answer your question. Just clarification.

M-a-S


"Paradox" <JoeyTaj at netzero.com> wrote in message news:924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef at posting.google.com...
> Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
> seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
> this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
> leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
> solution.
>
>                         Thanks Joey.





From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Sun Sep 14 06:51:35 2003
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:51:35 +0100
Subject: ANN: PyQt v3.8 Released
In-Reply-To: <43e3984e.0309110116.18b9d065@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1061147189.23632.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1061196870.3067.python-list@python.org> <43e3984e.0309110116.18b9d065@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200309141151.35437.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Thursday 11 September 2003 10:16 am, ulysses wrote:
> Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:<mailman.1061196870.3067.python-list at python.org>...
>
> > On Monday 18 August 2003 2:59 am, John Taylor wrote:
> > > Phil,
> > >
> > > Does PyQT support the ability to minimize an app to the lower right
> > > tray, next to the clock?  If so, could you please post some example
> > > code?
> >
> > What platform?
> >
> > If you mean Windows then QApplication.winEventFilter() and
> > QWidget.winEvent() were added to PyQt v3.4 at the specific request of
> > somebody who wanted to do this. Sorry, but I don't have example code.
> >
> > Phil
>
> I find QT have a trayicon example in C++, I study it. But I can't
> convert it to python . Can you give some advice. Thanks.

Not really. Maybe try converting a simpler C++ example to Python to get 
practice, or study the examples that have already been converted.

Phil





From scott_list at mischko.com  Sat Sep  6 14:33:53 2003
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:33:53 -0700
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
Message-ID: <200309061133.53521.scott_list@mischko.com>

I'm sure I'm not using the conventional names for this tool, more of a 
cross-referencer?.  I couldn't find it on Google, I think for this reason.

I need a tool that will go through a python module (ClientForm in this case) 
and allow me to specify a starting module to parse and tell me what all it 
uses.

What I'm trying to do is to take ClientForm apart enough to pull out just the 
html form parsing code in it and use it elsewhere.  It would be MUCH easier 
when approaching someone elses code if I could see what all functions are 
called by a given function, etc.

TIA,
Scott





From ababo_2002 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 14:28:41 2003
From: ababo_2002 at hotmail.com (Daniel Pryde)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:28:41 +0000
Subject: Multiple instances of modules
Message-ID: <BAY8-F52exp1nF9hOdY00013221@hotmail.com>

Hi again.

Seems I've been a bit of an idiot and neglected to look over the entire 
tutorial. I missed the last section of it and got myself confused about the 
difference between classes and modules. Sorry about that. Thanks for all the 
advice though. I'll look at the Python documentation a bit more thoroughly 
next time I have a problem. Hopefully my next post will not be about 
something as silly as this.

Thanks,
Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Sep 24 13:53:41 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:53:41 +0200
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
In-Reply-To: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3f71da25$0$58715$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Add a method called iter_backwards() to sequence objects that can benefit
> from it.  The above examples then simplify to::

I'm not too fond of the name "iter_backwards". I think it is too long
(with respect to the already existing "iter" built-in function).

It's just my feeling towards the name, but to me "iter_backwards" sounds
more like an action that is performed on the object it is called on
(a real method so to speak, not a factory method):
"seq.iter_backwards()" reads to me at first glance: 'iterate over the
seq in backward direction'. Not: 'return a reverse iterator object'.
('iter' reads like the verb/action 'iterate' instead of a noun).

Instead, "backwards_iter", "back_iter" or preferrably just "riter"
reads more natural to me:
"seq.back_iter()" reads to me at first glance: 'get a backwards iteration
object for seq'. ('iter' reads like the noun 'iterator', not a verb).



> No language syntax changes are needed.

Making it a method, indeed. But then there is this difference
between *forward* iteration and *backward* iteration, right?

iter(seq)    --> get a (forward) iterator for seq
seq.riter()  --> get a (backward) iterator for seq

How is this easily explained to new people? Why not keep it
orthogonal:

iter(seq)    and    riter(seq)
  ~or~
seq.iter()   and    seq.riter()

For what it's worth (probably nothing, but hey), in C++ STL
we have seq.begin() that returns a forward iterator, and
seq.rbegin() that returns a backward iterator.


> * Should tuples be included?
Don't really care. Are there any reasons why they shouldn't?

> * Should file objects be included?
Don't care. I've never had to read a file in reverse.

> * Should enumerate() be included?
I think it should.


--Irmen de Jong




From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Thu Sep 25 11:45:50 2003
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 15:45:50 GMT
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn61legdn9jf56@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bkv2je$5fs$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
> 
> "Mark Jackson" <mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
> news:bkuru4$532$1 at news.wrc.xerox.com...
> > Invalid User <user at invalid.domain> writes:
> 
> > (This happens to be the *reverse* of what my intuition expects - it
> > would seem more natural if the syntax meant "do this for loop to
> > completion, else do this extra stuff," but this is the way it is and
> > one must simply remember it.)
> 
> There's a certain amount of justification, though. You can
> already put whatever amount of logic you need in the if
> statement that ends with the break. You don't otherwise
> have that ability for normal termination of the sequence.

Sure - I wasn't arguing the other meaning was needed, clearly it is
not.  It's the use of the keyword "else" which creates the [purely
mental] problem for me.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	There are no foolish questions and no man becomes a fool
	until he has stopped asking questions.
				- Charles P. Steinmetz





From stefan.fleiter at web.de  Fri Sep  5 10:19:00 2003
From: stefan.fleiter at web.de (Stefan Fleiter)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:19:00 +0200
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
In-Reply-To: <PRr5b.22979$NC2.17137@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <mailman.1062538564.1958.python-list@python.org> <bj4crt$1uq$1@news.web.de> <PRr5b.22979$NC2.17137@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bja60k$pe5$1@news.web.de>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>>>Looks like a bug to me too. Stefan, please raise a bug report on Sourceforge
> Just assign the bug to me.  I'm
> already working on the solution.

Done, see:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=800796

Greets,
Stefan




From mymail.5.tth at spamgourmet.com  Tue Sep 23 13:47:58 2003
From: mymail.5.tth at spamgourmet.com (T.T.H.)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 10:47:58 -0700
Subject: questions about a C++ COM object accessed in Python via win32com
References: <e46a6e85.0309220727.c867ab4@posting.google.com> <VLEbb.101623$hE5.3572715@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <e46a6e85.0309230947.5514d84b@posting.google.com>

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>

Praise you, Alex, that was the most precise answer I could have imagined!

Bye,
T.T.H.



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Sep  9 16:08:22 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 20:08:22 GMT
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
References: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com> <bjl7po$j41$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bjlbvm$qfj$0@216.39.172.122>

On 9 Sep 2003 18:56:56 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On 9 Sep 2003 03:59:14 -0700, ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com) wrote:
>
>>I am slightly confused about the way metaclasses work, having read
>>"Metaclass Programming In Python, Parts 1 and 2"
>>
>>I get the fact that the instance of a metaclass is a class, but in
>>this case I fail to see why the following does'nt work:
>>
>>>>> class Meta(type):
>>...     def __str__(cls):
>>...             print "I am " + repr(cls)
>>... 
>UIAM, you subclassed type, but you didn't override __new__, so ...
ARGH. I was was partly mistaken, obviously.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Class = Meta("Fish", (), {})
>became essentially a pass-through call to type, i.e., effectively the same as
bzzt. wrong ;-/ It would (I think) have called type.__new__(Meta, 'Fish', (), {})

>     Class = type("Fish",(),{})
>and since you passed it an empty dict to make its Class.__dict__ from,
>
The empty dict did become the Class.__dict__ initial value though, I believe.

>>>>> Class.__str__()
>went looking in Class.__dict__ for '__str__' and couldn't find it. So it
still true
>went looking for it according to Class.mro(), which led to finding it in
>the object base class -- i.e., object.__dict__['__str__'] succeeded. But what it
>got was an unbound method, because neither of two things (accessing an ordinary
>method as an attribute of an instance object, or accessing a class method as an attribute
>of either and instance or its class) was happening to bind to the method. So you got a complaint.
>Note that it's complaining about __str__ of object, not __str__ of your class Meta.
>
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>TypeError: descriptor '__str__' of 'object' object needs an argument
>>
>Note that your def __str__(cls) *does* exist in Meta.__dict__, but that wasn't the
>dict used to construct Class.
True, but maybe misleading.
>
>>Whereas this does:
>>
>>>>> class Simple(object):
>>...     def __str__(self):
>>...             return "I am " + repr(self)
>>...
>In this case you are not overriding __new__ either, but the search for __new__ is finding
>object.__new__, and that is making the object instance for you, of subtype Simple.
>
>>>>> obj = Simple()
>Actually, I think this amounts to Simple.__call__(), which must call cls.__new__() and go
>down the mro chain to find object.__new__ and call it with cls (which would be Simple).
>
I need to read code for a while, and not write stuff I have to qualify...

>>>>> obj.__str__()
>Looking for __str__ in this case is looking in type(obj).__dict__ first and finding it right there.
>You are triggering it via attribute access, which dynamically creates the bound method that supplies
>the self arg. Alternatively, type(obj).__str__ should be the unbound method,  to which you could pass
>obj, and type(obj).__dict__['__str__'] should be the plain function that becomes a method by the
>dynamic magic. It can be called with obj as arg like the unbound method.
>
>>I am <__main__.Simple object at 0x402f676c>
>>
>>The tutorial does mention this (slightly), but doesn't make it clear
>>why this is happening. I am probably missing something obvious though!
>>
>>Thanks for the help,
>>
>To get the effect you originally wanted, one way could be:
>
> >>> class Meta(type):
> ...     def __str__(cls): return 'I am '+ repr(cls)
> ...     __str__ = classmethod(__str__)
> ...     def __new__(cls, name): return type.__new__(cls, name, (),cls.__dict__.copy())
> ...
> >>> Class = Meta('Fish')
> >>> Class
> <class '__main__.Fish'>
> >>> Class.__str__()
> "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"
>
>Interestingly,
>
> >>> str(Class)
> "I am <class '__main__.Meta'>"
>
>apparently the str builtin doing str(x) goes after type(x).__str__, e.g.,
>
> >>> Class.__str__
> <bound method Meta.__str__ of <class '__main__.Fish'>>
> >>> Class.__str__()
> "I am <class '__main__.Fish'>"
>
>vs
>
> >>> type(Class).__str__
> <bound method type.__str__ of <class '__main__.Meta'>>
> >>> type(Class).__str__()
> "I am <class '__main__.Meta'>"
>
>
>The above is my current view of how things work. I think/hope it's pretty close, but I am not
>speaking from a code walk here, so there may be some details awry. Corrections welcome.
>
I see David Mertz's post now. I learned that going off the end of the mro search for foo
then goes on to the metaclass, which presumably means that __str__ would have been found
if object.__str__ hadn't snagged it first in the mro chain.

>BTW, the __metaclass__ class variable and how that works is something that belongs in
>a discussion of Python metaclass programming, but someone else can fill that in ;-)
>
>HTH and does not mislead.
Sorry about the pass-through-to-type mislead. That was plain wrong, along with the unstated
implication that Meta.__str__ was plain unreachable from the resulting Class. At least I qualified
it with UIAM ;-/

Whoa, I'm late. gotta run...

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Sep 16 20:40:33 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:40:33 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <20030916215352.GE29089@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOECLFPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Jeff Epler]
> I hear that on Windows, processes are very inefficient compared to
> threads.  However, I have no idea what this actually means.

Creating a process is a very heavy operation on Windows compared to creating
a thread (which is cheap), and especially under the older Windows flavors.
The various Windows automation APIs (like COM under 20 names) are also very
happy playing with threads.

> Does Harri? Or is he thinking of something else?  Is he thinking of
> something like the "higher context switching cost in terms of TLB
> misses"?  God help anybody who lets thoughts about TLB misses guide
> the way he writes Python code! (excepting maybe Tim Peters

Indeed, I think of nothing else!

> and anybody writing numpy/numarray)

Ya, but they're crazy <wink>.

> I suspect that on Windows, stuff like pipe/dup2/fork has been turned
> into a hopelessly complicated mess, rather than something I could
> "roll my own" Python object-passing system out of inside an hour
> (using pickle or the like).

fork() doesn't exist on Windows (unless you use Cygwin, and then you can
measure a fork's progress with an egg timer).

> Another cool thing about the pipe approach is that you can probably
> distribute the processing over a network with only a little more
> work... wowee, that's cool.

Pipes and sockets work fine on Windows.  For some really cool distributed
shenanigans, build on the Python Spread wrapper (which also works fine on
Windows):

    http://www.python.org/other/spread/

back-to-tlb-worries-ly y'rs  - tim





From aaron at brokensociety.com  Wed Sep  3 23:18:20 2003
From: aaron at brokensociety.com (Aaron Kunkle)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:18:20 -0700
Subject: removing terminal control characters
Message-ID: <1062645500.3927.0.camel@aaron>

i'm trying to display output from a linux command line program and i'm
getting a lot of junk.
i was told that pulling out escape sequences like this regex: \033[^;]*;
would do it but that doesnt catch them all. i'm seeing the little box
characters for instance.

the only way i've found thus far is this:

building the regex object:
    regex = re.compile(r'\033[^;]*;')
then passing each line of output through this:
    line = regex.sub("",line)
    junk = line.translate(identity, string.printable)
    line = line.translate(identity, junk)

i know there must be a better way!
is there a way to get a non-printable group of characters to search
for?  

thanks,
aaron kunkle
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From alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net  Mon Sep 29 16:24:42 2003
From: alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net (Alexander DEJANOVSKI)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:24:42 +0200
Subject: Retic EAI Server 0.6 Released - Now with cross-platform GUI
  (wxPython)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030929222405.02776938@194.214.207.101>

Retic 0.6 comes with 3 new major features :

- Retic Administrator : a cross-platform (wxPython 2.4) GUI for 
creating/modifying adaptors and launching them.  (replaces the buggy win32 
Retic Designer)
- an XMLRPC server. Start it on a machine and after, launch adaptors on it 
remotely ( Retic Administrator uses it to launch adaptors on distant servers)
- Adaptors can be launched with parameter files, in order to execute one 
adaptor with distinct values
(ie : if you put %fileName% somewhere in the definition file of an adaptor, 
it will be replaced by the fileName value defined in the parameter file you 
pass as argument of your execution - see Retic's doc for more info).

Several bug fixes have been made, as well as speed/memory improvements 
(especially for the SQLTreeSource component).

It is available on sourceforge : http://retic.sourceforge.net
=============================================================
WHAT IS RETIC ?

Retic is an EAI Server.
The aim is to permit applications to communicate, even if they
don't speak the same language (which means transport protocols
as well as data structures).
This is done by building adaptors. An adaptor is composed of :
         - One source
         - Several pipes (process data transformations)
         - Several sinks (destination of data)
         - Several loggers (using the logging module of python 2.3)

=============================================================

Have fun !!










From djc at object-craft.com.au  Mon Sep  8 21:50:04 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 09 Sep 2003 11:50:04 +1000
Subject: CSV Module questions
References: <mailman.1062980233.23100.python-list@python.org> <3f5cb668$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <m3wucivigj.fsf@echidna.object-craft.com.au>

> John D. wrote:
> > I'm trying to understand how to use the "csv" module....
> > Example (from the docs):
> > # Just some stupid dictionary with key same as value.
> > someiterable = {'john d': 'john d', 'fred': 'fred'}
> > # make the writer.
> > writer = csv.writer(file("some.csv", "w"))
> > for row in someiterable:
>    for row in someiterable.iteritems():
> >     writer.writerow(row)
> 
> I suspect the problem is that you misunderstand dictionary iteration.
> Examine and understand:
> 	
>      for row in someiterable:
>          print repr(row)
> 
>      for row in someiterable.iteritems():
>          print repr(row)
> 
> 
> By the way, just use .items(), not .iteritems() if you have an older
> python (before 2.2, I believe).

The csv module is new in Python 2.3 so we can probably assume that
.iteritems() is there :-).

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From mark at hahnca.com  Sun Sep  7 14:24:50 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:24:50 -0700
Subject: win32com: create email message in windows default app?
References: <z9I6b.18545$n94.7236@fed1read04> <bjfpt5$l3s$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <TJK6b.18840$n94.10086@fed1read04>

> But what is "windows default email application" ?

I don't know, except that windows applications such as outlook and outlook
express will ask "Outlook is no longer the default email application, would
you like to make it the default?".  So somebody somewhere inside of windows
thinks there is a default.

Also, when you click on a mailto: link in a web browser, only one mail
message comes up from one mail application, so it must be the default email
application.  How do I get to that default email application and tell it to
open a message for me?





From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Tue Sep 16 14:45:49 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:45:49 -0500
Subject: is importing redundantly harmful/wasteful?
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624A5B@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: python at sarcastic-horse.com [mailto:python at sarcastic-horse.com] 
> 
> I'm writing a function and it needs to use regular expressions and the
> super-fantastic mx.DateTime module.  The first lines after 
> the doc string
> in the function are:
> 
>     import re, mx.DateTime
> 
> I'll be using this function in a bunch of different programs.  Some of
> those programs might need re and mx.DateTime for other tasks.
> 
> In some cases, I'll be redundantly importing these modules.  
> Should I care if I'm re-importing re and mx.DateTime even after
they've 
> been imported? 

No.

> Does python do some sort of checking for this stuff 

Yes.

> or do I need to?

No.

-- bjorn




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 12:44:45 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:44:45 +0300
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <tth3nvcb9oprv23bincf80c74051227vgv@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:30:31 GMT, rumours say that "Raymond Hettinger"
<vze4rx4y at verizon.net> might have written:

>Abstract
>========
>
>This proposal is to extend the API of several sequence types
>to include methods for iterating over the sequence in reverse.

-0

I believe this should be a function in itertools.

For indexable sequences, a little modification of itertools.islice would
do the trick, since it can't at the moment; it's designed for forward
iteration.

Helpful error messages:
>>> itertools.islice(lst, len(lst)-1, -1, -1)
ValueError: Stop argument must be an integer or None.
>>> itertools.islice(lst, len(lst)-1, None, -1)
ValueError: Step must be one or larger for islice().

For non-indexable sequences (eg a file object), things get hairier, but
given enough memory, it's not hard.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From mpeuser at web.de  Tue Sep  9 09:43:14 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:43:14 +0200
Subject: What does the keyword 'global' really mean
References: <3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <bjkeau$aa3$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bjkh1j$mfv$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bjklek$sp5$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de
> Michael Peuser wrote:
>
> > (1) No! When you 'import' a modul all variables (except __...) will be
> > visible to you.

> As far as I know, there is no way to hide a module level variable:

Funny, so it seems....

>
> > (2) You as well have visiblity inside a modul function to variables used
> > in the modul scope, i.e. you do
            NOT!!!
>> have to declare them 'global' if you only
> > want to 'read' them.

> Oops!
Oops as well! But this typo should be evident from the context...

> >> Also, does Python have the equivalent of the 'C' keyword 'static'?
> >
> > Not as a special construct, but you can use real 'dummy keyword
> > parameters' for that:
> >
> > def p(p1,p2,....myown={}):
> > myown[....] =
> >
> > This trick will emulate something similar to 'static'

> If you want to to emulate a "static" variable in a function, as in:
>
> int contrived(void) { static int i=-1; i += 1; return i; }
>
> use
>
> def contrived():
>     contrived.i += 1
>     return contrived.i
> contrived.i = -1

This has the drawback that 'i' is not so well encapsulated (initialisation
outside) and - thus -visible outside of contrived. But it is certainly
somwhat  simpler.

Kindly
Michael P








From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Sep 18 05:27:49 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:27:49 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
In-Reply-To: <oexifpa7.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org> <y8wmfu6t.fsf@python.net>
 <mailman.1063870645.4121.python-list@python.org> <oexifpa7.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309181225440.24128@sampo.csc.fi>

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Thomas Heller wrote:

> Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:
>
> > On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Thomas Heller wrote:
> >
> >> Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:
> >>
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
> >> > is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
> >> > straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with sockets
> >> > and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.
> >>
> >> For windows?
> >>
> >> <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.windows/969>
> >
> > I want to get this done on both Windows (2000/XP) and (Redhat) Linux (7.x
> > or higher).
> >
> > Isn't there a way to wrap a call to urllib.urlopen in some kind of timer,
> > so that the call fails if there is no answer in N seconds? (I.e. if
> > urllib.urlopen cannot open a specific web page in N seconds, then I
> > assume that the reason is that the computer is not online.) That would be
> > good enough for me. Any suggestions?
>
> Of course you can do it this way. Or even simpler with the socket
> module.

You wouldn't have some sample code on how I can use the socket module to
test if I can connect to a given URL? (I would't want to rely on other
modules than the ones in the standard library, so therefore I want to
try this socket approach.)

Cheers,

/Mickel




From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Mon Sep  8 00:44:39 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 00:44:39 -0400
Subject: exec code with timeout?
In-Reply-To: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4>
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3F5C0937.4050504@teksavvy.com>

OKB (not okblacke) wrote:

>    	I am fiddling around with a Python-based MUD which allows users to 
>code MUD objects in Python.  This code is executed from within the 
>server code with "exec".  
>
Danger, Will Robinson! Unchecked exec() calls are the path to ruin!

>However, sometimes errors in user code can 
>result in infinite loops, which cause the MUD to hang.  I am wondering 
>if there is a way to put a timeout on the exec, so that it returns 
>control to the main program if the user code doesn't return within a 
>certain amount of time.
>
>    	I am not concerned with security per se here -- in general I can 
>assume that any users who are using the MUD are trusted and will not 
>write malicious code.  
>

Hanlon's Razor:  "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by stupidity."

>I am chiefly aiming to catch simple, 
>unintentional programming errors. For instance, I don't want the MUD 
>to hang just because someone innocently forgot to include a break 
>inside a "while 1:" block.  All I need is a very crude form of control 
>-- a simple timeout would do.
>  
>

The Python 2.3 C API now provides a function, PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc, 
that
will let you raise an exception in another thread asynchronously, thereby
taking it down. But I don't think there's a Python wrapper function for 
it. I
suppose you could write your own...

The RestrictedPython module in Zope may suit your needs; it was designed 
for a
similar use scenario. Search the list, there was a discussion about
RestrictedPython not long ago.


-- Graham






From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Mon Sep 29 08:00:48 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:00:48 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
Message-ID: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org>

Hi!


I must have been searching in the wrong places or with the wrong
keywords but I couldn't find out how to implement something such as
what is done by the threading module on Windows (95, 98 and XP are the
ones used by my clients). My preference is for something available in
the standard library if possible.

I have a simple task where I want my GUI to be able to open several
applications simultaneously. Using the threading module everything
works perfectly on Linux but the program won't run on Windows.


Any hints on what should I do? 

The working code is really simple and is all what I need on both
platforms (pseudo-code follows):


import threading
(...)

class MyApplication(...):
(...)
     def someMethod(...):
         (...)
         def temporaryFunction():
             os.spawnv('P_NOWAIT', 'another.py', ['another.py', parameters])
         thread = threading.Thread(target = temporaryFunction)
         thread.start()
     

     def anotherMethod(...):
         (...)
         def temporaryFunction():
             os.spawnv('P_NOWAIT', 'yetanother.py', ['yetanother.py', parameters])
         thread = threading.Thread(target = temporaryFunction)
         thread.start()


and so on.

(Yes, I could factor 'temporaryFunction' and reduce 5 lines of code in
my application, but I still don't know what will be necessary to do to
make it work on Windows, so I left it as is and factor it later.)


Any hints on how to accomplish that in a portable way? Or what
additional code will I have to use to make it work in Windows?


Thanks in advance,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From stuart at bmsi.com  Thu Sep 11 01:14:44 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:14:44 -0400
Subject: getrusage
References: <pan.2003.09.10.22.20.45.366720.31273@bmsi.com> <mailman.1063237817.940.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2yT7b.150317$xf.51358@lakeread04>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:49:36 -0400, Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> On FreeBSD, you get correct numbers as well. The Linux kernel, however,
> doesn't implement the RUSAGE field, even though it could easily be done
> (I once had the same question as you, and did this research then).
> 
>> What is the goal?  I need to find a memory leak in an extension module.
> 
> Try compiling a debug version of Python with the option --with-debug and
> you can debug refcount problems much better.

The leak turned out to be in the C library wrapped by the extension
module.  I debugged the C library with http://dmalloc.com

Very nice package.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.



From riquito at riquito.matrix  Sun Sep 28 05:35:59 2003
From: riquito at riquito.matrix (Riccardo Attilio Galli)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:35:59 +0200
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
References: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.28.09.35.57.773937@riquito.matrix>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:29:12 -0700, Daniel Klein wrote:

> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
> looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
> methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.
> 
> I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
> it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.
> [SNIP]
> Daniel Klein

Maybe Jedit is what your looking for.
You can split the window to see 2 or more different files simultaneously,
or the same file in different position.

Matches it your search?

Ciao,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Thu Sep  4 13:34:14 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 10:34:14 -0700
Subject: py2exe copies to much dlls
References: <bj6iot$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com> <3F573D52.32D836BD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0309040934.3ad84fc4@posting.google.com>

py2exe finds module paths by parsing your python source file.
I think it also uses the PYTHONPATH environmenet variable.
So if your PYTHONPATH contains $PYTHON/lib-tk (which it normally
does), py2exe will copy the tcl/tk dlls too into the build
directory, which are needed for tkinter.

Try editing the PYTHONPATH variable and remove the lib-tk 
directory from it.

HTH

-Anand

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F573D52.32D836BD at engcorp.com>...
> Achim Domma wrote:
> > 
> > I managed to build a simple com server with py2exe. My script only imports
> > codecs and re, but the dist folder contains tcl84.dll, tk84.dll and
> > win32ui.pyd. Can somebody tell me why? And how to prevent this? I don't do
> > any gui stuff, so where does the dependency comes from?
> 
> Can you py2exe the following script and see what you get?  If it's
> still the same stuff, post the py2exe setup.py script you used and
> the command line:
> 
> # test script
> 
> print 'Hello, world!'
> 
> (Yes, that's all...  :-)
> 
> -Peter



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Mon Sep  1 20:25:39 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:25:39 +1200
Subject: just a beep
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13031B6F68@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212ADEC@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> print chr(7)

Note that this won't work in the PythonWin interpreter or 2.2.3 or 2.3 IDLE.
(It does work from the command line, or from an executed script).

=Tony Meyer





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep  1 11:35:47 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:35:47 -0400
Subject: Declaration of an array of unspecified size
References: <m814lvc8h44vbd5g1m2iv05r33qg8ag9ta@news.stofanet.dk> <biu6k0$c8fs4$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <n9q5lvscj9d6i083go88a9js7cc8g7c4ig@news.stofanet.dk>
Message-ID: <9LKdnadJsY8d-s6iU-KYgw@comcast.com>

"Bertel Lund Hansen" <nospamius at lundhansen.dk> wrote in message
news:n9q5lvscj9d6i083go88a9js7cc8g7c4ig at news.stofanet.dk...
> Yes. I have the habit from Java and C++. Is there a better way to
> declare them in Python?

Python is neither Java nore C++ and there are significant differences.
It requires different language specific habits.

> Yes, I saw that in another posting. But I have a habit that I
> aquired working with slow computers: always to substitute
> function-calls with variables (faster). Is that a bad habit?

Today's desktops literally match the supercomputers of enough years
ago and make many slow-computer habits (like writing lots of
assembler) generally obsolete.  The fast computer paradigm: write
something relatively simple that works.  If not fast enough (and it
often will be fast enough), then profile and optimize hotspots.

Terry J. Reedy





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Sep  4 21:47:31 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:47:31 -0400
Subject: Python port to Swiss Ephemeris work with 2.3?
References: <734b753f.0309041612.2066021@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlfqpk4hup6621@news.supernews.com>

"Dave" <bluheaven2 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:734b753f.0309041612.2066021 at posting.google.com...
> Hi, I was just wondering if anyone knows whether it's possible to use the
> Python port to the Swiss Ephemeris with the latest version Python 2.3?
> I downloaded it from the vault, and it worked fine with Python 2.2.2, but
> then when I switched to Python 2.3 it gives me this error:
>
> "ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found"
>
> Yet it has no problem importing the rest of the modules which are in the
> same directory as the dll.  Does anyone know what's going on?  Am I stuck
> using the older version of Python for the Swiss Ephemeris?  Thanks -Dave

There's a Python port in the Vaults? Great!!! I'll see what I can figure
out about it. At a rough guess, it has to be recompiled for the new version.

BTW - have you checked on the Swiss Ephemeris mailing list? Who's
the author?

John Roth





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 08:39:20 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:39:20 GMT
Subject: Problems with setting up mod_python and Apache
References: <3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <4zK7b.11532$NW3.6643@news1.central.cox.net> <jXO7b.14165$NW3.10353@news1.central.cox.net> <3f605bee$0$199$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Y1_7b.129$o71.119@news2.central.cox.net>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message
news:3f605bee$0$199$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> Hi Dave
>
> I have fixed my problem with mod_python. I have one small problem left to
> sort out. If I enter the URL http://localhost Apache just displays the
> contents of the htdocs directory, but if I enter the URL
> http://localhost/test.py everything works as it should. I guess this is
> somewhat off topic since it appears to be an Apache configuration problem
so
> I hope you don't mind me asking you for your opinion on c.l.p.
>
Yes, you should condition your server not to give you a directory listing
when the default documents aren't found - this is big-time information
leakage, and gives an attacker leverage to start finding vulnerabilities.
So, beofre you go into production, fix that! The config command you need is
something like

DirectoryIndex index.htm index.html index.html.var index.php

You might want to include index.py there too!

How did you solve your mod_python problem, by the way?

> BTW What I am trying to do is to move away from PHP. Since I use Python as
> my primary scripting language for just about everything where you would
use
> a scripting language, it seems to me to be a reasonable idea to use Python
> to provide dyanamic content for the web sites I look after.
>
Nice. Just try to resist the temptation to replace working PHP with working
Python - nobody's paying you for that! Translate to Python when upgrading,
or for new functionality.

still-from-Yorkshire-ly y'rs  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 13:36:18 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 13:36:18 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <VlOdnTfgosIdRceiXTWJhg@comcast.com> <bjfm7k$fi1$1@panix2.panix.com> <bTydnaHj4PWU-caiU-KYvg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bjfqai$lja$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <bTydnaHj4PWU-caiU-KYvg at comcast.com>,
Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
>news:bjfm7k$fi1$1 at panix2.panix.com...
>>
>> Speaking as the champion of Lynx, I absolutely agree.  ;-)  Don't worry,
>> I'll veto anything that doesn't have excellent readability, though I
>> don't know to what extent I personally will check against browsers other
>> than Lynx and Opera.
>
>Email me a URL of a serious proposal and I will view with IE and reply
>with comment re readability.  Or just post and let several people
>test.

It will likely be that the top candidates get posted to c.l.py.announce.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From graham at rockcons.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 18:07:38 2003
From: graham at rockcons.co.uk (Graham Nicholls)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:07:38 +0100
Subject: list to string 
Message-ID: <Km68b.2494$YL.621@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi.  Sorry if this is really dim, but I'm trying to do something like:

main (args):
        fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")

and get an error that open is expecting a string not a list.

I _have_ looked at the docs online, and in the books, but to no avail, so
thanks for looking!

Graham 
-- 
#include <wit>
graham at rockcons.co.uk



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Sep 26 16:15:43 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:15:43 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
 <bl1iq3$ss$01$1@news.t-online.com> <MI_cb.75294$PD3.4794043@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <v5Jd/ks/KjoF089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <MI_cb.75294$PD3.4794043 at nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
Nicolas Fleury <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:
>  [ ... ]                                              I wonder how to
>remove the need for \ in that example:
>
>     parser.StartElementHandler = \
>         lambda name, attrs: \
>             GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs)


You're gonna hate this :) ...

     parser.StartElementHandler = (
         lambda name, attrs:
             GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs)  )


        Regards.        Mel.



From awheat at imaging.robarts.ca  Thu Sep  4 15:34:04 2003
From: awheat at imaging.robarts.ca (Andrew Wheatley)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 12:34:04 -0700
Subject: Pmw ScrolledText Widget
Message-ID: <d44e8ee7.0309041134.110406a5@posting.google.com>

In the text component, I use the insert method to insert a line of
text.
Initially, I set the foreground colour of the text component to
yellow, that is,
all text is yellow.  What I'd like to do is have different strings
have different coloured text.  You can't change the foreground color
of the text component without changing all the strings to the same
colour.  Anyone know how to have
different strings have different colours?

Here's a code snippet:

# One time creation of the widget
def AddMessageBox (self,parent):

    self._messageBox = Pmw.ScrolledText(parent,
				        hull_width = 850,
				        hull_height = 100,
     				        usehullsize=1)
    self._messageBox.grid(row=0,column=0)

    # Background is black, text color is yellow
    self._messageBox.component('text').configure(background='black')
    self._messageBox.component('text').configure(foreground='yellow')

    # Create a filename
    self._logfile = "Vcalc_Session_Log_"
    timestring = time.strftime("%d_%b_%Y_%H_%M_%S",time.localtime())
    self._logfile = "%s%s" % (self._logfile,timestring)

    # First line in the message box is yellow
    self._messageBox.insert('end','1: Log file is %s\n' %
(self._logfile,))
    self._messageBoxLineCount = 2
		
# Whenever this method is called in appends a string into the text
widget
# of the ScrolledText widget.  The 3rd parameter 'color' is supposed
to
# set the color of the string without changing all the previous
strings
# but I don't know how to do it yet.
def LogMessage(self,string,color):

    output = '%d: %s' % (self._messageBoxLineCount,string,)
    self._messageBox.insert('end',output)

    self._messageBoxLineCount = self._messageBoxLineCount + 1


--------------------
Thanks,

Andrew Wheatley



From jboti at integrasoft.ro  Tue Sep 16 05:16:30 2003
From: jboti at integrasoft.ro (Jozsa Boti)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:16:30 +0300
Subject: getch() in Python
Message-ID: <001b01c37c33$37081a00$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro>

Hi!

Is there a getch()-like function in Python that is OS independent?
I understand that msvcrt.getch() is available only under Windows.

thanks, Boti
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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Sep  2 03:53:45 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:53:45 +0200
Subject: just a beep
References: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <bj1iad$v3o$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Leo" wrote:

> i want python to do a beep.
>
> in the docu i found in tkinter the method
> bell()
> but the script:
> import Tkinter
> Tkinter.bell()
> gives the error:
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'bell'

you might find it easier to use Python if you spend some time reading
up on functions vs. methods; in the meantime, here's one way to call
the "bell" method in Tkinter:

    >>> import Tkinter
    >>> Tkinter.Tk().bell()

</F>







From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 16 16:37:04 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:37:04 +0200
Subject: list of lists
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de> <bk4k46$ort$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bk6gn4$57m$1@news.uni-kl.de> <bk7hb7$pt6pp$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bk7sg9$pif$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

> It's a simple concept, once you grasp it, but for those new to
> Python, it may be worth emphasizing -- You can concatenate
> operators (to the right, at least) and these operators will
> operate on the run-time value produced by the expression
> to which they are applied.  For example (read from bottom up):
> 
> 
>     getArray()[3].formatter()
>        ^    ^  ^ ^          ^
>        |    |  | |          |
>        |    |  | |          +--- (5) call function retrieved from
>        |    |  | |                   attribute
>        |    |  | +-------------- (4) access attribute of object indexed
>        |    |  |                     from array
>        |    |  +---------------- (3) index element of array returned by
>        |    |                        function call
>        |    +------------------- (2) call function retrieved from name
>        |                             binding
>        +------------------------ (1) retrieve value bound to variable
> 
> 
> It is also worth thinking about what is meant by saying that this
> evaluation is *dynamic*.  For example, if the object returned by
> the function call to getArray (above) is not indexable, then the []
> operator will fail.
> 
> And, the only limiting factor is confusion.

Nice explanation. I take the occasion to warn newbies that the sort() method 
is a showstopper in this scheme:

getArray().sort()[3].formatter() #BAD CODE, DON'T USE
             ^
             |
             + -- sort() returns None

By the way, is there any Python programmer who has not made this error at
least once?

Peter



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Sep 22 16:49:02 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:49:02 -0300
Subject: Memory allocation
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FD9@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Knowing how much memory the object consumes will not help you with
#- that, at least in general.  The object could easily be changed in a
#- dozen ways yet still consume the same amount of memory.

No, sorry. Knowing how much memory consumes, gives me if it's a viable
solution.


#- Can't the object just track changes to itself?  This is a fairly 
#- common solution to the general problem you describe.  Resorting to
#- things like checking memory consumption is not likely the best way
#- to approach this.

Thought this. But gives me an API not separated from my main code (I have to
subclass each class from another one).


#- > but it still remains a general question: the other
#- > day I wanted to know "how much more expensive in memory is 
#- a list than a
#- > tuple for a given content".
#- 
#- I believe the answer was given, but in case it wasn't: they take 
#- effectively the same amount of memory, as each is basically a series
#- of pointers to other objects.

That's OK.

But, there is a way to know the memory consumption?




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 24 19:29:30 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:29:30 -0600
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com> <3dd5593c.0309211615.747ba123@posting.google.com> <3F6E4D02.7868D52C@easystreet.com> <616fccba.0309230137.586ddea5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkt9ct$71h$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

rhmd wrote:


> 
> MORE DETAIL ON MY QUESTION

>  At
> any rate, there are some calculations where I need a LOT of speed,
> e.g. generating billions (with a B) of random numbers with the
> Mersenne Twister algorithm

Off the top of my head I don't know which rng RandomArray (part of Numeric)
uses, but its speed is not that bad:

In [20]: def rloop(n,m):
   ....:     random = RA.random
   ....:     size=10**m
   ....:     for i in xrange(10**n):
   ....:         _=random(size)
   ....:

In [21]: timing (1,rloop,1,5)  # times are in cpu seconds
Out[21]: 0.12000000000000455

In [22]: timing (1,rloop,2,5)
Out[22]: 1.1999999999999957

In [23]: timing (1,rloop,3,5)
Out[23]: 12.469999999999999


The scaling is pretty linear, so for a billion terms you'd need about 2
minutes.

hth.

Cheers,

f



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Sep 23 14:14:55 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:14:55 -0600
Subject: load changes of subclasses
In-Reply-To: <20030923153323.GA4145@nl.linux.org>
References: <bkpmki$4bc$1@news.uni-kl.de>
 <20030923153323.GA4145@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030923121150.0344fb88@66.28.54.253>

At 09:33 AM 9/23/2003, Gerrit Holl wrote:

>Tom wrote:
> > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:56:55 +0200
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a main program  that uses a lot of definitions in different classes.
> > They are included like this:
> > from subclass1 import *
> > from subclass2 import *
>
>Note that 'subclass1' and 'subclass2' are not classes, but modules. A
>class is created with the 'class' statement:
>
>class MyClass:
>     def method(self):
>         return "Hi there!"
>
>A module is a file in the library.
>
> > My problem is: whenever I make changes in one of the classes I have to
> > close and reopen the main program for the changes to take effect. This
> > is kind of annoying, because I always want to test if my changes are
> > correct and that's why I have to run the main program. Is there some
> > kind of a shortcut where I don't have to close and reopen the main program?
>
>You can use the reload() function for that:
> >>> print reload.__doc__
>   reload(module) -> module
>
>   Reload the module.  The module must have been successfully imported before.

BUT realize that reloading does not rebind the names bound by the original 
from subclass1 import *. This is one reason to either avoid from import, or 
else:

try:del sys.modules['subclass1']
except:pass
from subclass1 import *

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From rain_anti_spam_rhb at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 02:05:04 2003
From: rain_anti_spam_rhb at yahoo.com (Rain)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:05:04 +0800
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
Message-ID: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com>

Hi,

I do not want to lead a war on this topic, as there have been many
arguments in Slashdot.

Obviously, QT is best by now if not consider the license.
Then after google some, I found people tend to use wxPython and pyGTK.

Now I want to narrow topic and ask this question:
Which one have a little more clear logic and easy to learn and use?
Not considering the local platform and feeling, and the deployment.I
know pyGTK need GTK runtime libs.

--
Rgds, Rain



From voblia at centras.lt  Sun Sep  7 08:36:14 2003
From: voblia at centras.lt (Ignas Mikalajunas)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 05:36:14 -0700
Subject: Anyone ever overridden a builtin by accident?
References: <c09b237b.0309061922.10d74b39@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fde4537f.0309070436.436d01e5@posting.google.com>

> Yes indeed, *everything* in Python is an object.  Let the newbie
> beware!

    Common Lisp solves this problem in a pretty simple way - functions
and variables are in separate namespaces (of course scheme programmers
don't like this very much IIRC) and all global variables are commonly
named *booo* *bah* and etc. so if you are overriding a global variable
you are at least aware of it ...
   Ignas Mikalajunas



From edreamleo at charter.net  Tue Sep 30 04:36:07 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:36:07 -0500
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <bla9m8$1ae$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vnig3tla93mka1@corp.supernews.com>

> > I don't want to discuss whether this is good style: it is simple and it
> > works well for me :-)

> Okay, I won't discuss, I'll just tell you that this is a recipe for
> giving yourself a headache.

I could agree with you if using "from leoGlobals import *" had ever caused
me the slightest ache.  Aside from this startup problem, now completely
solved, it never has.

As suggested in another reply, replacing every reference to x in leoGlobals
by g.x might be considered better style, but this is precisely what I want
to avoid.  It is always perfectly obvious in the code that a reference to a
"bare" function is a reference to a function in leoGlobals.  What could be
clearer?

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Sep 10 02:13:59 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 08:13:59 +0200
Subject: Disagree with proposed 2.4 behavior for %x formatting of signed  i nts
References: <mailman.1063053673.4793.python-list@python.org> <47sqlvo64vf5tk93qmmo2fi9pvt5ijbno2@4ax.com> <bjl53p$j22$07$2@news.t-online.com> <bjlqcl$m4g$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m3fzj5maqg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> >>>>>print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
> >> 
> >> 0x-3E0D38FD
> >
> >Actually, what *will* happen is
> >
> >-0x3E0D38FD
> >
> Really?

No. I should have read the original message better :-(

Regards,
Martin



From ulope at gmx.de  Tue Sep 30 20:27:26 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 02:27:26 +0200
Subject: How do you use " " whe sending a command
References: <mailman.1064965743.15057.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bld71f$avlkl$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

> "Fernando Armenta" <farmenta at pillardata.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1064965743.15057.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>
> I am trying to pass the following command
>
> ssh IP_address "ssh IP_address ls"
>
> How you do that in Python?
> /" ?
> "/ ?

a = " ' "
b = ' " '
c = """ " ' ''' """
d = ''' " ' """ ''''

> p = os.popen('ssh.exp ' + MGMT_IP + ' ' + /" ssh + PMI_IP_NODE1 + ' ' +
/bin/tdslog -C "/')
>
But a imho better way would be:

vars = {'mgmt_ip': '10.0.0.1', 'ip':'10.0.0.2', 'cmd':'/bin/ls'}
command = 'ssh.exp %(mgmt_ip)s "ssh %(ip)s %(cmd)s"' % vars
p = os.popen

HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 24 12:59:31 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:59:31 -0700
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| ...
| The Windows installer now ships with documentation 
| in searchable htmlhelp format, rather than individual 
| HTML files.
| ...

Is the htmlhelp format optional for Windows ??? 

Sometimes I like to edit the individual HTML docs ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Sep  4 11:49:33 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:49:33 -0400
Subject: Invisible function attributes
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com> <87he3tfopa.fsf@pobox.com> <51809ae4.0309040627.28d7a075@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlennrjsrdp585@news.supernews.com>

"Olivier Lefevre" <lefevrol at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:51809ae4.0309040627.28d7a075 at posting.google.com...
> Thanks to all those who replied.
>
> > ...what I'm guessing you haven't figured out yet is that everything
> > works like this in Python.
>
> Very possibly. I am coming to python from Java and I want to investigate
> the weird stuff precisely because either it's a one-off (in which case
> I'll make a note to myself to ignore it and not use it) or it holds the
> key to what is specific about the language. I seem to have hit pay dirt
> with this one ;-)
>
> Nudged by the dot syntax, I was thinking of this function attribute as
> if it were a sort of class member (i.e., pretending for a while this
> function is a class) and, since functions can't have instances, treating
> it as a sort of static member of the function, which should be available
> as soon as declared. Obviously I got it all wrong. Instead, they work
> like local variables except that they "persist" after the function has
> exited. That still feels weird to me. What are they used for? Give me
> a compelling reason to have such a beast in the language.

I don't know of a really compelling reason, other than it simply
works that way. Like everything else in the language, functions
are objects, which means that they have a dictionary at their
core. Therefore, functions can have attributes.

The only use I can think of would be definitely advanced
programming. Functions are first class objects, which means
they can be rebound anywhere you want them. If you find
a good reason to do that, then as an extension you might find
a reason to add attributes to classify what you've got so you
can manage the process.

As I said, I'm reaching with this one...

>
> OTOH, does this behaviour have anything to do with so-called "futures"?

No. Future is a feature so that experimental features can be added to the
language in one release, and then made standard in a future release.

John Roth
>
> -- O.L.





From Hoosbruin at Kconline.com  Wed Sep  3 22:22:55 2003
From: Hoosbruin at Kconline.com (Andy)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:22:55 -0500
Subject: questions
Message-ID: <HnWdnRoKt7GUP8uiU-KYgg@kconline.com>

Would like to try Python......

 Can you use Python to access SQLServer... if so do you have an example.

  What are the strengths and weaknesses of Python.?

   Is it like vbscript ?


 Example code of things that it's good at.... to get me started




 Thanks...






From rr84 at cornell.edu  Fri Sep 19 19:35:54 2003
From: rr84 at cornell.edu (RR)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:35:54 -0400
Subject: whitespace
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.19.23.35.54.334022@cornell.edu>

Is there an easy way in python to remove whitespace from a string?



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 10:14:33 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 15:14:33 +0100
Subject: ANN: script to visualize python profiling data with kcachegrind
References: <bk9kok$7nh$2@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <87k787zely.fsf@pobox.com>

Joerg Beyer <job at webde-ag.de> writes:
> with the kind help of Josef Weidendorfer, I wrote a script
> to transform the profiling data of the pstats.Stats class
> to a format that the program kcachegrind could read 
> and visualize.

Cool!

[...]
> Besides this, I was able to find and improve the hot spots
> in some python sources without big efforts. At least the 
> relative numbers seem right.
[...]

Much more important, we can now generate lots of pretty graphics from
our Python code ;-)


John



From rolfedh at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 26 16:28:09 2003
From: rolfedh at hotmail.com (Rolfe)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 13:28:09 -0700
Subject: Still need more feedback Re: Successful installation of mod_python on Apache on Win2k?
Message-ID: <cfd500a9.0309261228.7612ec27@posting.google.com>

In response to Peter Maas <fpetermaas at netscape.net>:

Thank you. I have rechecked my config (shown below) - but I still
can't get the script (also shown below) to run in mod_python. I've
tried it in both the /cgi-bin/, and in /htdocs/test/:

THE CONFIG FILE READS AS FOLLOWS:

# MOD_PYTHON STUFF (added by
Rolfe)--------------------------------ROLFE
LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so

<Directory "C:/Program Files/Apache Group/Apache2/cgi-bin/"> 
	AddHandler python-program .py
	PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
	PythonHandler mptest
	PythonHandler form
	PythonDebug On
</Directory>

<Directory "C:/Program Files/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs/test/"> 
	AddHandler python-program .py
	PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
	PythonHandler mptest
	PythonHandler form
	PythonDebug On
</Directory>

THE FULL SCRIPT READS AS FOLLOWS:

from mod_python import apache

def handler(req):
    req.write("Hello World!")
    return apache.OK

Adding:
#! c:/python22/python.exe to the top of the script brings up a
DOWNLOAD FILE dialog. In that dialog, if I select RUN, the script
executes quickly in a DOS-like command line window and then exits.

Any suggestions?



From ask at me.com  Tue Sep 30 19:37:58 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:37:58 GMT
Subject: getting values from an "exec" statement
References: <ad32251c.0309301513.1b11a8ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qtoeb.10485$NX3.7489@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

"Toby Donaldson" <tjd at sfu.ca> wrote in message
news:ad32251c.0309301513.1b11a8ce at posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm designing an educational application that will run Python code and
> check the output against a pre-define answer. I want to use the "exec"
> statement to run the code, but I don't know how to get output from it.
>
> For instance, exec works like this:
>
> >>> code = """
> for i in xrange(1, 5):
> print i
> """
> >>> exec code
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 4
>
> I want to store the values output by the print statement in a list. Is
> there anyway to re-direct the output of the exec statement?

The code run by exec is run in the same scope as the exec (by default). So
anything done "in" the exec is visible to things "outside" the exec. Like
this:

l = []
code = """for i in xrange(1, 5):
  l.append(i)"""
exec code
print l


greg





From Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com  Wed Sep  3 04:14:22 2003
From: Harri.Pesonen at wicom.com (Harri Pesonen)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 01:14:22 -0700
Subject: Simple question: How to pass a C++ class reference to a callback?
References: <17fbc98a.0309020423.11ac7b8d@posting.google.com> <aB-dnSBw_cewCsmiXTWJiw@comcast.com> <lj45b.2298$ZB4.1613@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <17fbc98a.0309030014.4671bb58@posting.google.com>

I was close, but it appears that self is always NULL in embedded function (why?).

So the correct embedded function is

static PyObject*
emb_Set(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
    char *key, *value;
    if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &key, &value))
        return NULL;
    // how the get the class instance pointer:
    PyObject *m = PyImport_ImportModule("test");
    if (m) {
        PyObject *c_api_object = PyObject_GetAttrString(m, "_C_API");
        if (c_api_object) {
            myClass *p = (myClass *)PyCObject_AsVoidPtr(c_api_object); 
            // do something with the C++ class here
            Py_DECREF(c_api_object);
        }
        Py_DECREF(m);
    }
    Py_INCREF(Py_None);
    return Py_None;
}

Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message news:<lj45b.2298$ZB4.1613 at reader1.news.jippii.net>...
> I read it twice, but I'm not sure that I got it.
> 
> You mean that I add something like:
> 
> static PyObject*
> emb_Set(PyObject *self, PyObject *args) {
>      char *key, *value;
>      if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &key, &value))
>          return NULL;
>      // how the get the class instance pointer:
>      PyObject *c_api_object = PyObject_GetAttrString(self, "_C_API");
>      if (c_api_object) {
>          if (PyCObject_Check(c_api_object)) {
>              myClass *p = (myClass *)PyCObject_AsVoidPtr(c_api_object); 
> 
>              // do something with the C++ class here
>          }
>          Py_DECREF(c_api_object);
>      }
>      Py_INCREF(Py_None);
>      return Py_None;
> }
> 
> And in C++ class:
> 
>      Py_Initialize();
>      PyObject *m = Py_InitModule("test", EmbMethods);
>      // ??
>      PyObject *c_api_object = PyCObject_FromVoidPtr((void *)this, NULL);
>      if (c_api_object) {
>          PyModule_AddObject(m, "_C_API", c_api_object);
>          PyRun_SimpleString(script);
>      }
>      Py_Finalize();
> 
> 
> 
> T. Panbru wrote:
> 
> > Try encapsulating your C++ class reference in a CObject, using:
> > 
> >     PyObject* PyCObject_FromVoidPtr( void* cobj, void (*destr)(void *))
> >     void* PyCObject_AsVoidPtr( PyObject* self)
> > 
> > and so forth, to go back and forth between the C++ and Python realms.
> > 
> > Check out the Python docs at:
> > 
> >     http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/api/cObjects.html
> > 
> > Tim
> > 
> >  > Harri Pesonen wrote:
>  
> >> How do I pass the calling C++ class reference (or anything) to a 
> >> callback?
> >> My code is:
> >>
> >> static PyObject*
> >> emb_Set(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> >> {
> >>     char *key, *value;
> >>     if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "ss", &key, &value))
> >>         return NULL;
> >>     // do something with the C++ class here
> >>     // how the get the class instance pointer?
> >>     Py_INCREF(Py_None);
> >>     return Py_None;
> >> }
> >>
> >> static PyMethodDef EmbMethods[] = {
> >>     {"Set", emb_Set, METH_VARARGS, "Sets the given variable."},
> >>     {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}
> >> };
> >>
> >> in C++ class:
> >>
> >>     Py_Initialize();
> >>     Py_InitModule("test", EmbMethods);
> >>     PyRun_SimpleString(script);
> >>     Py_Finalize();
> >>
> >> Harri
> > 
> >



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Sep 16 15:38:57 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:38:57 GMT
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <877k48y2sd.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <lFJ9b.51$Cs1.31@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[John J Lee]
> Dunno why None and not True / False causes a warning

Because there is a lot of existing code that legitimately made
assignments to True and False.

> but you can turn
> warnings into errors using the warnings framework, I think.

Right!


Raymond





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Sep 15 09:22:29 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:22:29 GMT
Subject: asyncore question
References: <Xns93F48D6F052CAstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.75> <mailman.1063370360.32090.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <p2j9b.3994$U41.2930@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

> > This dispatcher will be added to the global map.
> > But probably user will call asyncore.loop(map=some_map),
> > as d was buillt with this map.
> >
> > Is there not something wrong here, or am I just missing something ?
>
> I believe it's an oversight in asyncore.  Either create_socket should take
> a map parameter, or __init__ should store the initial map and
> create_socket should use it.  One workaround is to create the socket
> yourself and call set_socket(sock, some_map).

Please submit a bug report.


Raymond Hettinger





From tom at malcolmson.com  Tue Sep  9 00:25:06 2003
From: tom at malcolmson.com (Tom)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 21:25:06 -0700
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
References: <200309061133.53521.scott_list@mischko.com> <mailman.1062967091.26128.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <26c0ffee.0309082025.6b150e1c@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1062967091.26128.python-list at python.org>...
> Scott> I need a tool that will go through a python module (ClientForm in
>     Scott> this case) and allow me to specify a starting module to parse and
>     Scott> tell me what all it uses.
> 
> This is not a trivial exercise to perform with Python because it is
> dynamically typed.  In many cases you don't know the type of an object until
> runtime.
> 
> Skip

I wrote a tool called PySpy (see
http://members.rogers.com/qwavel/pyspy/) that presented call graph
information based on a runtime analysis of Python programs.

Unfortunately, it only works with Python v2.1.  I hope to update it
when I get time.

I don't monitor this ng.

Tom.



From tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr  Tue Sep 23 06:38:36 2003
From: tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr (Anthony McDonald)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:38:36 +0200
Subject: 2nd iteration of a character
References: <bkigte$1e3b$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3f7020d6$0$20953$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

"Philippe Rousselot" <mailing at rousselot.rg> wrote in message
news:bkigte$1e3b$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
> Hi,
>
> How do I find the second iteration of a character in a string using python
>
> this gives me the first one
> f1 = string.find(line,sub)
>
> this the last one
> f2 = string.rfind(line,sub)
>
> but for the nth one ?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Philippe
>
> PS : any good book to recommend ?

Most of the answers you've been given take the form (haystack, needle,
iteration), so I thought it'd be nice to write a little iterator.

class Ifind:
    def __init__(self, haystack, needle):
        self.haystack = haystack
        self.needle = needle
        self.pos = 0
    def __iter__(self):
        return self
    def next(self):
        found = self.haystack[self.pos:].find(self.needle)
        if found == -1:
            raise StopIteration
        found = self.pos + found
        self.pos = found + 1
        return found

>>> for a in Ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "3"):
...  print a
...
2
12
22
>>>
>>> for a in Ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "1234567890"):
...  print a
...
0
10
20
>>>
>>> for a in Ifind("123456789012345678901234567890", "nope"):
...  print a
...
>>>

Anthony McDonald





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Sep 19 11:18:24 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:18:24 -0600
Subject: problem with user confirmation
In-Reply-To: <bkdfg7$lga$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <ec1162c7.0309181523.2077b7e5@posting.google.com>
 <bkdfg7$lga$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030919091235.038fa380@66.28.54.253>

At 05:39 PM 9/18/2003, Duncan Smith wrote:


>"Matthew" <ruach at chpc.utah.edu> wrote in message
>news:ec1162c7.0309181523.2077b7e5 at posting.google.com...
> > I am have written a medium sized program and everything works fine
> > except for one piece. At a certain point in the program I want to do a
> > simple user confirmation, eg Are you sure ? y/n. The problem that I am
> > having is that after the user enters an answer and presses enter, the
> > program executes the rest of the code regardless of what the user
> > response was.
> >
> > Heres my code:
> >
> > def confirmAction(self, msg):
> > if not msg:
> > msg = 'Are you sure y/[n]> '
> > print msg
> > confirm = sys.stdin.readline()[:-1]
> > print 'confirm = \'%s\'' %(confirm)
> > if confirm == 'y' or 'Y' or 'Yes' or 'YES' or 'yes':
> > return 1
> > return 0
>
>[snip]
>
>'Y' evaluates to true.

To be more explicit:

given: confirm = 'y'
confirm == 'y' or 'Y' or 'Yes' or 'YES' or 'yes' evaluates to 1 (confirm == 
'y' returns 1)

but given: confirm = 'Y'
confirm == 'y' or 'Y' or 'Yes' or 'YES' or 'yes' evaluates to 'Y' (confirm 
== 'y' returns 0 which is ored with 'Y" which is true, hence the result is 'Y')

>Maybe try something like:
>
>if confirm in ['y', 'Y', 'Yes', 'YES', 'yes']:

Even better

if 'yes'.startswith(confirm.lower()): # covers y ye yes Y YE YES yES Yes etc.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From geoff at gerrietts.net  Thu Sep  4 20:30:16 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:30:16 -0700
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
In-Reply-To: <bj88h1$b2n$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <yra3b.6546$Jh2.2048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <23891c90.0308280317.ac68b38@posting.google.com> <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <biqve2$qp0$1@panix1.panix.com> <87y8x6x2op.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1062541744.4844.python-list@python.org> <bj88h1$b2n$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030905003016.GC7532@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Bengt Richter (bokr at oz.net):
> On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:27:57 -0700, Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:
> >I think the sentiment is just a variant on the "politicians always
> >lie" theme. Open source is socio-political, and so it's the
> >charismatics that succeed. "Asshole" is one manifestation of a strong
> >personality.
> I don't believe that. IMO the most obnoxious manifestations of "asshole"-ness
> are due to *weak* personalities using powerful positions to over-compensate ;-/

I think maybe "strong" is being misinterpreted here. A strong
personality is not a strong person is not a well-adjusted person, just
as a strong drink is not a strong meal is not a healthy meal.

> An assertive maverick is not necessarily an "asshole" in my book,
> though those threatened by such a personality will often be quick
> with that label. (Note that assertiveness != bullying. Bullying is a
> hallmark behavior of "asshole"-hood).

I think some of your distinction is finely drawn on a moving surface:
what is merely assertive to a thick-skulled, thick-skinned person may
seem bullying to an astute, sensitive person.

Generally, though, the self-proclaimed asshole is a guy who might fit
into the "assertive maverick" category, but when confronted by those
who are quick with the asshole label, embrace the label. It's a way of
coping with criticism, primarily, but it's also a way to dismiss the
"internal monitor of the superego" and say what "needs to be said".

I tried walking that road for a few years, but at the end, I realized
that I was nowhere near as nice as I used to be. I disliked what
"embracing the disease" did to my personality. Maybe that makes me
ineligible to head an open source project....

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "There is no fate that cannot be 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     surmounted by scorn." --Albert Camus




From rhunter007 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 16 00:20:08 2003
From: rhunter007 at yahoo.com (Rob Hunter)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:20:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <8B40EBC0-E7FA-11D7-973E-003065F081D2@actrix.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20030916042008.16681.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com>

> It's not mutation, it's assignment.
> 

I had always used the word mutation basically for
any use of a "!" in Scheme, but fair enough.

> Mutation means changing an object in some way
> (i.e., you have the same
> identical object after as before); assignment
> is just associating a
> different object with a variable.
> 
> > In scheme, you could write something like
> this:
> 
> > (let loop ((i 1))
> >   (if (> i 10)
> >       empty
> >       (cons (make-button i)
> >             (loop (+ 1 i)))))
> 
> > This program returns a list of 10 buttons
> > (assuming "make-button" creates numbered
> buttons)
> > from 1 to 10.
> 
> > IMO, this looks a lot like your button code,
> > except there's no mutation and thus no
> problem of
> > making every button be button 10.
> 
> There's no assignment, because it's a recursive
> procedure in Scheme,
> which ensures a new binding for i each time
> through the loop.
> 

Well, yeah.  And that's a good thing, right?  I
mean, perhaps not in general, but certainly in
this case I think everyone can agree that it is
*assignment* which creates the confusing issue of
all buttons being named 10.


<snipping>



> 
> No, you don't introduce a binding with "="
> 
> Python people will tell you otherwise, but
> that's a result of failing
> to understand the difference between binding
> and assignment -- they
> think "binding" means what everybody else in
> the world calls
> "assignment", and they don't seem to recognise
> that the thing the rest
> of the world calls "binding" is a different
> thing.
> 
> In Python, the compiler examines the code (at
> compile time, naturally)
> and notices any assignments; it then inserts a
> binding for any
> variables that are assigned in a particular
> block of code at the start
> of that block.  I.e., writing something like
> 
>    def foo():
>        blah()
>        x = 7
>        blah()
> 
> compiles as if you'd written
> 
>    (define foo
>      (lambda ()
>        (let ((x ..magic-unbound-value..))   ;
> here's the binding
>          (blah)
>          (set! x 7)                         ;
> this is assignment
>          (blah))))
> 
> in Scheme.  The binding (let) is inserted by
> the compiler and doesn't
> occur at the same place as the assignment -- it
> really has nothing to
> do with the "=" at all.
> 
> That's why you can't write
> 
>    def foo():
>       print x
>       x = 42
>       print x
> 
> and expect the first print statement to print
> the global value of x
> (assuming there is one) -- because the later
> assignment causes a
> binding to be inserted *before* the earlier
> print, so it tries to
> print the value of the not-yet-assigned local x
> (and the initial value
> is the "magic unbound value", which causes an
> error if you try to look
> at it)

I believe you when you say this is how Python
does it, but I'd like to know what's wrong with
the model I have.  Can you give me an example
where my model fails me?  To review, I am saying,
now just for the sake of argument and
understanding Python, that the first "=" is
special and acts like a Scheme LET while
subsequent "=" with the same variable name in
scope act like assignments.

So your Python code:

def foo():
       print x
       x = 42
       print x

would be in *your* world (in scheme):

(define (foo)
  (let ((x --special unbound thingy--))
    (print x)
    (set! x 42)
    (print x)))

and in my world would be:

(define (foo)
  (print x)
  (let ((x 42))
    (print x)))

To be clear, what I am assuming is that Python is
our "proposed" language, and Scheme is our
semantics.  So I'm giving a single Python program
two different "meanings."

*Except*, there's nothing different about these
Scheme programs, really.  I'm being a little
informal, obviously, but both programs error on
the first (print x) and both, if the first (print
x) were removed, would succeed in exactly the
same way.

So, in summary, you seem to be stressing the
importance of the fact that Python does not
introduce a binding with (the first) "=".  But I
don't see why.

Thanks,
Rob

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From jblazi at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 22 10:20:02 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:20:02 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <odCbb.139591$R32.4375735@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.22.14.19.53.906000@hotmail.com>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:49:24 +0000, Alex Martelli wrote:

> Basically, the change from "x[y]=z" to "x=x[:y]+z+x[y+1:]" is just
> not "traumatic" enough, in my opinion, to warrant considering this
> a seriously complicated problem ("not seem simple at all").

Of course, you are right. The possibility to create a new string dawned
upon me later when I was already lying in my bed...
Of course, in this case a lot of activity takes place in the background
(memory objects have to be allocated and deallocated) and if efficiency
played a r?le... In this case it does not and your solution is the right
one.
In C strings are mutable and so you can work in situ but usually those
zero terminated strings have their disadvantages as well...

Thank you for your help.

--
JB

Ceterum censeo: wxPython should replace Tkinter.



From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep 30 12:59:26 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:59:26 +0200
Subject: [PMW] Rename a notebook's page - how?
References: <3f798986@news.swissonline.ch> <mailman.1064934294.5084.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f79b621@news.swissonline.ch>

Thank you Martin,

but I've still troubles, because the tab has the new name now, but the page
is in PMW still known with the old name.

I see this because I've registered for the raisecommand event:

   def _onSelect_(self, pageName):
      Proxy.DataProxy().containerSelect(pageName)
      return

And here pageName is the old name despite the fact that the new name is
displayed on the tab.

Kind regards
Franz GEIGER


"Martin Franklin" <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:mailman.1064934294.5084.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 14:49, F. GEIGER wrote:
> > Hi again,
> >
> > I'd like to rename a page of a notebook. Deleting the page and adding a
new
> > one is not really an option, because the page is filled with other
controls
> > already. So I looked into Pmw.Notebook. There are quite a few lists and
> > dicts which were to be changed and I wasn't successful in the first try.
> >
> > However, if nobody has ever done this, I'd have to rebuild the whole
page
> > after deleting/adding. I really hope there's an other way to go.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Franz GEIGER
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> You need to get hold of the "tab" widget and change it's text.
>
> nb = Pmw.NoteBook(root)
> nb.pack()
>
>
> nb.add("Page1")
> nb.add("Page2")
> nb.add("Page3")
>
>
> tab = nb.tab("Page1")
> tab["text"]= "Martin1"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>
>
>





From uj797 at victoria.tc.ca  Mon Sep 15 10:08:08 2003
From: uj797 at victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 06:08:08 -0800
Subject: Standards in Artificial Intelligence
References: <bjuh6u$bg9$1@news.astound.net>
Message-ID: <3f65b9b8@news.victoria.tc.ca>

"David B. Held" wrote on Sat, 13 Sep 2003:
>> > In one section, you define a core set of concepts (like
>> > 'true', 'false', etc.), and give them numerical indexes.
ATM:
>> http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/variable.html#nen -- yes.
DBH:
> Brittle.  
ATM:
You are right.  It is precariously brittle.  That brittleness
is part of the "Grand Challenge" of building a viable AI Mind.
First we have to build a brittle one, then we must trust the
smarter-than-we-are crowd to incorporate fault-tolerance.
DBH:
> Language-specific.
ATM:
Do you mean "human-language-specific" or "programming-language"?
With programming-language variables, we have to start somewhere,
and then we let adventitious AI coders change the beginnings.
With variables that lend themselves to polyglot human languages,
we achieve two aims:  AI coders in non-English-speaking lands
will feel encouraged to code an AI speaking their own language;
and AI Minds will be engendered that speak polyglot languages.
Obiter dictu -- the Mentifex "Concept-Fiber Theory of Mind" --
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/theory5.html -- features 
a plausible explanation of how to implant multiple Chomskyan
syntaxes and multiple lexicons within one unitary AI Mind.
The AI textbook AI4U page 35 on the English language module --
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/english.html -- and 
the AI textbook AI4U page 77 on the Reify module --
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/reify.html -- and the
AI textbook AI4U page 93 on the English bootstrap module --
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/enboot.html -- all show
unique and original diagrams of an AI Mind that contains
the thinking apparatus for multiple human languages --
in other words, an AI capapble of Machine Translation (MT).

DBH:
> Non-scalable.  
ATM:
Once again, we have to start somewhere.  Once we attain 
critical mass in freelance AI programmers, then we scale up.

DBH:
> You are trying to build something "intelligent", aren't you?
ATM:
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html -- Machine...
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/jsaimind.html -- Intelligence.

DBH:
> > Then you invite programmers to add to this core by using
> > indexes above a suitable threshold, as if we were defining
> > ports on a server. [...]
ATM:
> http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/newcept.html#analysis
> explains that Newconcept calls the English vocabulary
> (enVocab) module to form an English lexical node for any
> new word detected by the Audition module in the stream of
> user input.

DBH:
Besides the fact that the "enVocab" module is embarrassingly
underspecified, the notion of indexing words is just silly.
ATM:
Nevertheless, here at the dawn of AI (flames? "Bring 'em on.")
we need to simulate conceptual gangs of redundant nerve fibers,
and so we resort to numeric indexing just to start somewhere.

DBH:
> If a dictionary were a database, it might be a reasonable idea.
> But trying to simulate human speech with a database-like
> dictionary is the way of symbolic AI, and the combinatorial
> nature of language is going to rear its ugly head when you try
> to scale your system to realistic proportions.  Hence, why
> programs like SHRDLU were good at their blocks worlds,

http://www.semaphorecorp.com/misc/shrdlu.html -- by T. Winograd?

> but terrible at everything else.  Again, a little history would
> do you well.  If you want to refer to your text, let's take a
> quick look at something you wrote:

    6.4. Introduce aspects of massively parallel ("maspar")
    learning by letting many uniconceptual filaments on the
    mindgrid coalesce into conceptual minigrids that
    redundantly hold the same unitary concept as a massively
    parallel aggregate with massively parallel associative tags,
    so that the entire operation of the AI Mind is massively
    parallel in all aspects except such bottleneck factors as
    having only two eyes or two ears -- in the human tradition.

> Umm...pardon me, but the emperor is wearing no clothes.
> "uniconceptual filaments"? 
ATM:
Yes. Each simulated nerve fiber holds one single concept.

> "conceptual minigrids"?
ATM:
Yes.  Conceptual fibers may coalesce into a "gang" or minigrid
distributed across the entire mindgrid, for massive redundancy --
which affords security or longevity of concepts, and which
also aids in massively parallel processing (MPP).

> "massively parallel aggregate"? 
> Where is the glossary for your pig Latin?
> How on earth is a programmer supposed to build a 
> computational model from this fluff?  Read your mind?  
> She certainly can't read your text.  This sounds more
> like a motivational speech from a pointy-haired boss in a
> Dilbert strip than instructions for how to build an "AI Mind".
> I would parody it, but you've done a fine job yourself. 

Ha!  You're funny there! <grin>

> Here's the real cheerleading right here:

    Then go beyond human frailties and human limitations
    by having any number ad libitum of local and remote
    sensory input devices and any number of local and
    remote robot embodiments and robotic motor
    opportunities. Inform the robot of human bondage in
    mortal bodies and of robot freedom in possibilities yet
    to be imagined.

> Wow.  I have a warm fuzzy feeling inside.  I think I'll stay
> up another hour writing more of the Sensorium module.

>> > [...] At one point, you address programmers who might
>> > have access to a 64-bit architecture.  Pardon me, but
>> > given things like the "Hard Problem of Consciousness",
>> > the size of some programmer's hardware is completely
>> > irrelevant. [...]
>>
>> http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/standard.html#hardware
>> (q.v.) explains that not "the size of some programmer's
>> hardware" counts but rather the amount of memory
>> available to the artificial Mind.

> The amount of memory is completely irrelevant, since you
> have not given enough detail to build a working model.
ATM:
If the AI coder has an opportunity to go beyond 32-bit and
use a 64-bit machine, then he/she/it ought to do it, because
once we arrive at 64-bits (for RAM), we may stop a while.

>  It's like me saying: "If you have a tokamak transverse reactor,
> then my spaceship plans will get you to Alpha Centauri in
> 8 years, but if you only have a nuclear fission drive, then it
> will take 10.  Oh and drop your carrots and onions in this
> big black kettle I have here."  Also, the memory space of a
> single processor really isn't that important, since a serious
> project would be designed to operate over clusters or grids
> of processors.  But I suppose it never occurred to you that
> you might want an AI brain that takes advantage of more
> than one processor, huh?
ATM:
The desired "unitariness of mind" (quotes for emphasis) may
preclude using "clusters or grids of processors."

> I suppose you think the Sony
> "Emotion Engine" is what Lt. Cmdr. Data installed so he
> could feel human?

>> The Mentifex AI Mind project is extremely serious and
>> ambitious.

> There's no doubt it's ambitious.  And I have no doubt that
> you believe you have really designed an AI mind.  However,
> I also believe you hear voices in your head and when you
> look in the mirror you see a halo.  Frankly, your theory has
> too much fibre for me to digest.

>> Free-lance coders are morking on it in C++ and other
>> languages:

> If I knew what "morking" was, I would probably agree.
> However, your first example of someone "morking" on it in
> C++ tells me that "morking" isn't really a good thing.  At
> least not as far as C++ goes.  Namely, it more or less proves
> that the "interest" in this project mainly consists of the blind
> being (b)led by the blind.

>> [...]
>> http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/vb.html -- see
>> "Mind.VB #001" link.

> This is the only sign of progress you have shown.  Without
> even looking at the link, I can believe that the "VB Mind"
> already has a higher IQ than you.

>> AI Mind project news pervades the blogosphere, e.g. at
>> http://www.alpha-geek.com/2003/09/11/perl_ai.html -- etc.

> Oh, I see...so if enough people report on it, then it's "serious"
> and should be taken seriously?  A lot of people reported on
> cold fusion.  But I'd take the cold fusion researchers over
> you any day of the week.

>> The Mentifex Seed AI engenders a new species of mind at
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mindjava -- Mind2.Java --
>> and at other sites popping up _passim_ on the Web.

> And what, pray tell, is a "mind species"?  Is it subject to
> crossover, selection, and mutation?
ATM:
http://www.seedai.e-mind.org tries to track each new species
of AI Mind.  We do _not_ want standard Minds; we only wish
to have some standards in how we go about coding AI Minds.

>> AI has been solved in theory

> LOL!!!!  Wow!  Whatever you're smoking, it has to be
> illegal, because it's obviously great stuff!

> > and in primitive, free AI source code.

> Here is an example of "primitive, free AI source code":

> 10 PRINT "Hello, world!"

> See?  It's got a speech generation and emotion engine
> built right in!  And the AI is so reliable, it will never display
> a bad attitude, even if you tell it to grab you a cold one
> from the fridge.  It always has a cheerful, positive
> demeanor.  It is clearly self-aware, because it addresses
> others as being distinct from itself.  And it has a theory of
> mind, because it knows that others expect a greeting when
> meeting for the first time.  Unfortunately, it has no memory,
> so every meeting is for the first time.  However, its output
> is entirely consistent, given this constraint.  I guess I've
> just proved that "AI has been solved in theory"!

>> Please watch each new species of AI Mind germinate
>> and proliferate.

> I'm still waiting to see *your* mind germinate.  I've watched
> grass grow faster.  While ad homs are usually frowned
> upon, I don't see any harm when applied to someone who
> cannot be reasoned with anyway.  Since you seem to have
> single-handedly "solved the AI problem", I'd like to ask
> you a few questions I (and I'm sure many others) have.

> 1) How does consciousness work?
ATM:
Through a "searchlight of attention".  When a mind is fooled
into a sensation of consciousness, then it _is_ conscious.

> 2) Does an AI have the same feeling when it sees red
>    that I do?  How do we know?

ATM:
You've got me there.  Qualia totally non-plus me :(

> 3) How are long-term memories formed?

ATM:
Probably by the lapse of time, so that STM *becomes* LTM.

> 4) How does an intelligent agent engage in abstract reasoning?

ATM:
Syllogistic reasoning is the next step, IFF we obtain funding.
http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26 - $send____.

> 5) How does language work?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595654371/ -- AI4U.

> 6) How do emotions work?

ATM:
By the influence of physiological "storms" upon ratiocination.

> Please don't refer me to sections of your site.  I've seen
> enough of your writing to know that the answers to my
> questions cannot be found there.

> Like a typical crackpot (or charlatan), you deceive via
> misdirection.  You attempt to draw attention to all the
> alleged hype surrounding your ideas without addressing
> the central issues.  I challenged your entire scheme by
> claiming that minds are not blank slates, and that human

IIRC the problem was with how you stated the question.

> brains are collections of specialized problem solvers
> which must each be understood in considerable detail
> in order to produce anything remotely intelligent.  You
> never gave a rebuttal, which tells me you don't have one.
> Why don't you do yourself a favor and start out by
> reading Society of Mind, by Minsky.  After that, read
> any good neurobiology or neuroscience text to see just
> how "blank" your brain is when it starts out.  Pinker
> has several good texts you should read.  There's a
> reason why he's a professor at MIT, and you're a
> crackpot trying to con programmers into fulfilling your
> ridiculous fantasies.

> Dave

Arthur
-- 
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/python.html -- Python AI Weblog
http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26 - Mind-eXchange;
http://www.sl4.org/archive/0205/3829.html -- Goertzel on Mentifex;
http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/307824.307853 -- ACM SIGPLAN: Mind.Forth



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  8 10:40:31 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:40:31 +0200
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20030908080938.03c3f110@66.28.54.253>
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com>
	<bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com>
	<6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253>
	<3F5C7270.1020001@ghaering.de>
	<mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns93F093815E0CDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
	<6.0.0.22.0.20030908080938.03c3f110@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <3F5C94DF.2020806@ghaering.de>

Bob Gailer wrote:
> [...] UniCodeError: UTF-16 decoding error: truncated data

If I remove the last character of the example line you posted, I can 
sucessfully convert it to a Unicode string:

 >>> s = '\xff\xfe"\x00T\x00a\x00s\x00k\x00 
\x00S\x00c\x00h\x00e\x00d\x00u\x00l\x00e\x00r\x00 
\x00S\x00e\x00r\x00v\x00i\x00c\x00e\x00"\x00\r\x00\n'
 >>> unicode(s, "utf-16")
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf16' codec can't decode byte 0xa in position 52: 
truncate
d data
 >>> unicode(s[:-1], "utf-16")
u'"Task Scheduler Service"\r'
 >>>

I'm using Python 2.3, which apparently gives more useful encoding errors 
(including the position of the error).

-- Gerhard




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 06:28:48 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:28:48 GMT
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com> <bkumfg$ifj$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bkuoeb$kbt$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <AxUcb.124313$hE5.4244599@news1.tin.it>

Achim Domma wrote:

> "Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
> news:bkumfg$ifj$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
>> You have to know the encoding of the original file.
> 
> Why? It's of type 'str' and I would expect that I could write it to DB and
> get the same 'str' back. That's all I want. Why is it required do know the
> encoding?

Because the Access engine (actually known as Microsoft Jet: "Access" is
only, strictly a *FRONT-END* product -- marketing terminology confusion)
stores all text strings as Unicode; and COM (thus ADO) also uses Unicode
exclusively for all text strings (as a rule).  If you cannot move to
better engines and interfaces, you're stuck with the ones you have...
(99 times out of 100, moving to better engines and interfaces -- e.g.
SQLite and PySQLite, or Firebird, etc, is preferable from most points
of view -- but 1% of the time one must keep supporting legacy code...).


Alex




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Sep 10 19:49:36 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 01:49:36 +0200
Subject: getrusage
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.10.22.20.45.366720.31273@bmsi.com>
References: <pan.2003.09.10.22.20.45.366720.31273@bmsi.com>
Message-ID: <3F5FB890.30405@ghaering.de>

Stuart D. Gathman wrote:
> When I call resource.getrusage on Linux, I don't get any memory stats:
> 
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jan 30 2003, 21:26:22) 
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-112)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>from resource import getrusage,RUSAGE_SELF
>>>>print getrusage(RUSAGE_SELF)
> 
> (0.019531, 0.0078119999999999995, 0, 0, 0, 0, 178, 387, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
> 
> On AIX, I get the correct numbers.

On FreeBSD, you get correct numbers as well. The Linux kernel, however, 
doesn't implement the RUSAGE field, even though it could easily be done 
(I once had the same question as you, and did this research then).

> What is the goal?  I need to find a memory leak in an extension module.

Try compiling a debug version of Python with the option --with-debug and 
you can debug refcount problems much better.

-- Gerhard




From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Thu Sep  4 18:35:11 2003
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:35:11 +0100
Subject: file object, details of modes and some issues.
Message-ID: <3f57be21$1_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>

could someone confirm ( or otherwise ) this  bug.

manual says file.truncate leave the pointer unmoved, well it doesn't, and left 
me with a bug in a program that took a bit of finding.


 >>> f=file('test.dat','rb+')
 >>> f.write('1234567890')
 >>> f.close()
 >>> f=file('test.dat','rb+')
 >>> f.read(5)
'12345'
 >>> f.tell()
5L
 >>> f.truncate()
 >>> f.tell()
10L
 >>>

( PythonWin 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32. )




From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 11:41:27 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:41:27 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <yam6b.22363$hE5.822153@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bjcv89$rr4$04$1@news.t-online.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it

It will certainly not surprise you that I do not answer to your most recent
posting.
Kindly
Michael P





From fgeiger at datec.at  Mon Sep 22 13:11:30 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:11:30 +0200
Subject: Mailbox cleaner on an IMAP basis?
Message-ID: <3f6f2cfb@news.swissonline.ch>

Hi all!

As I saw Alex Martelli's post about a mbox cleaner based on POP3, I thought,
it could be possible to do that based on IMAP too. That way I could ask the
server for mails having attached EXE files and delete all those mails on the
server. This would save me a lot of traffic over my phone line connection.

But I'm missing one important thing: How do I get the server to tell me
about attachments.

What I've found out so far is how to get at the fields:

r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS])")

Alas, there's no such thing like 'filename' or 'attachments'.

And

r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (Content-type)])")

doesn't show a file name either.

Any hints?

Best regards
Franz GEIGER








From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Sep  4 17:04:22 2003
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:04:22 -0400
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
In-Reply-To: <43e3984e.0309040411.62f8d20b@posting.google.com>
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.09.03.23.24.03.438382@harobed.org> <43e3984e.0309040411.62f8d20b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f57a8a6$0$563$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

I have put up the source code on my projects page.  You can find it at 
the bottom of the path here:

http://jura.wi.mit.edu/people/kelley/

Here is a bit of the description:

Are you annoyed that using python threads slows down your progam by 
about 30% because of the GIL (Global Interpreter Lock)?

The code described here give you another option!  You can run and 
monitor a python script running in a seperate process.  This is very 
coarse grained threading but the spawned process can run at (just about) 
full speed.  You can also kill the process as well.

The process can also send rudimentary data back to the monitoring 
application.  This includes raw python datatypes and pickled items can 
be transferred back to the monitoring application.

The usage is fairly simple:
pythonscript a python script in a text string.

dlg = ProcessDlg(parent, title, pythonscript)
dlg.Destroy()

Warning, the code hasn't been tested under linux/unix.
Enjoy.




From P at draigBrady.com  Fri Sep 12 09:52:34 2003
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:52:34 +0100
Subject: RAD with Python
In-Reply-To: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com>
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F61CFA2.3040702@draigBrady.com>

Ubaidullah Nubar wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> How well is Python suited for developing database based applications?
> I am new to Python so please bear with me if some of the questions are
> too simple. I specifically have the following questions:
> 
> 1. Is there an example of a simple data-entry application written in
> Python using a GUI interface? Something like a simple address book app
> with a listbox displaying all addresses with the ability to
> add/modify/delete.

Have a look at http://www.netpromi.com/mojoview.html
It uses gtk

> 2. There seem to be a number of GUI frameworks available? Which one is
> good for use on Windows and Linux?

There is a GTK2 port to windows I think.
pyqt is also an option, but you need to pay
to use it on windows.
wxwindows is another popular crossplatform toolkit.
Personally I recommend GTK.

> 3. Can Python apps be compiled to an exe? Can the resulting executable
> be distributed commercially?

yep.

> 4. What types of applications are not suitable to be written in
> Python?

CPU intensive apps, or low level bit manipulation is
better done in C, though you can very easily write parts in C,
or even use psyco for certain python functions.
Note python 2.3 is 25% faster than 2.2.

> I have good knowledge of many languages including C++, Assembler,
> Java, etc. My preferred development tool is Clarion currently. If
> anybody with a Clarion background can share their experience with
> Python, that will be very helpful.

P?draig.




From jallan at smrtytrek.com  Sun Sep 21 13:40:48 2003
From: jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 10:40:48 -0700
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message news:<bkepb9$6a4$01$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> nospam wrote:
> 
> > Has someone got a Python routine or module which converts Unicode
> > strings to lowercase (or uppercase)?
> 
> Toiled and came up with:
> 
> >>> print u"abc????".upper()
> ABC????
> 
> >>> u"ABC???".lower()
> u'abc\xe4\xf6\xfc'
> 
> Peter

But that really doesn't work properly. According to Unicode specs and
German usage the uppercase of "?" is actually "SS", that is the single
character "?" should uppercase to two characters.

Jim Allan



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 15 13:10:15 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 18:10:15 +0100
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com> <87znh89ufv.fsf@pobox.com> <7ICdnZSX7bE0H_miU-KYgw@fcc.net>
Message-ID: <874qzeou4o.fsf@pobox.com>

Ted Holden <medved at fcc.net> writes:

> John J. Lee wrote:
> 
> 
> > I've never seen anybody give a convincing reason why GTk is a good
> >  choice for *anything* except writing GNOME apps.
[...]
> in a scripting language, and python appears to be several levels of
> advancement above Tcl.

Tcl, maybe, but what about wx and Qt?


> Tk appears to be more functional at this point, nonetheless there was no way
> to avoid having Tk code twisted and wound in and around app code in the Tcl
> version of the thing whereas the glade/gtk version of the thing produces a

(A side issue given the point below, but I certainly dispute that.
Even if you don't have a "GUI painter", you can separate GUI interface
from "business logic" implementation).


> gui in an XML file and an absolute minimum of anything related to guis in
> my own code.  The difference between the two is about 400 lines of very
> readable code versus about 2500 lines of code which was marginally
> readable.  I'd MUCH rather deal with pygtk, and assume anything I might
> miss from Tk will be there in a year.

Certainly a big reduction in code size like this is very worthwhile.
wx and Qt both have equivalent functionality, though, so the mere
existence of such a tool seems an irrelevance in comparing GTk, wx and
Qt.


> The LINUX community appears to have developed a sort of a magical nexus of
> things including gcc, swig, python, pygtk, glade, and zope which, taken
> together, amounts to a new sort of programming paradigm.  The really big

What does this have to do with the comparison between GTk, wx and Qt,
all of which are all GPLed?


[...]
> I don't see an easy way to beat all of that.

Sorry for my repetitiveness, but: wx or Qt!


John



From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Wed Sep 10 15:26:32 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:26:32 -0400
Subject: sort by file/directory
In-Reply-To: <9d302332.0309101042.2c0d12c3@posting.google.com>; from mzupan@meso.com on Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 11:42:24AM -0700
References: <9d302332.0309101042.2c0d12c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030910152632.B28550@cerberus.liberty>

* Mike Zupan (mzupan at meso.com) wrote:
> I have a list that includes files and directories
> 
> ie: list = ['file', 'file2', 'dir1','file3','dir2' ]
> 
> I want to sort it so it looks like this
> 
> ['dir1', 'dir2', 'file1','file2','file3' ]
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering if there is an easy way to do this
> 

Is there anything in the name of the files/directories that specified that
it is a file or a directory?  If not, then I wouldn't think so.  When you
are gathering the file and directory listing (maybe you're using os.walk?),
then you could at that time do something like (given a 'dir_list' and a
'file_list'):

>>> if os.path.isdir(path_to_file):
...     dir_list.append(os.path.basename(path_to_file))
... else:
...     file_list.append(os.path.basename(path_to_file))

Then sort the lists and concatenate them together:

>>> dir_list.sort()
>>> file_list.sort()
>>> new_list = dir_list + file_list
>>> new_list
['bin', 'etc', 'sbin', 'tmp', '.muttrc', 'htpasswd', 'httpd.conf',
'passwd']


Jeremy Jones




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Sep 22 17:33:47 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:33:47 -0500
Subject: string.rstrip
In-Reply-To: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com> (soundwave56@yahoo.ca's
 message of "22 Sep 2003 15:14:26 -0700")
References: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m27k40se2s.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Hank" == Hank  <soundwave56 at yahoo.ca> writes:

    Hank> The last 't' was stripped. Is this fixed or documented
    Hank> anywhere? it works for other cases, but this one seems to
    Hank> give me a weird result.

That's because rstrip removes any characters up until the first one
one that doesn't match.  Since the 't' before the '.' is in the strip
string '.txt' it is stripped too.  Does this example clarify:


   >>> 'John D. Hunter'.rstrip('retD')
   'John D. Hun'

If you want to remove the extension, the best way is to use splitext

  >>> import os
  >>> base, ext  = os.path.splitext('test.txt')
  >>> base
  'test'

Hope this helps,
John Hunter




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 29 02:37:40 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:37:40 +0200
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <bl1iq3$ss$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bl4c1p$c2p$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bl8k2f$s87$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> Did you know the tokenizer concatenates white-space-separated string
> literals into a single literal? ;-)
> 
>>>> ("alpha"
> ...  "beta"
> ...  "gamma"
> ... )
> 'alphabetagamma'
> 
> Note the effect in code:
> 
>  >>> import dis
>  >>> f1 = lambda: ("alpha"
>  ...              + "beta"
>  ...              + "gamma"
>  ...              )
>  >>> f2 = lambda: ("alpha"
>  ...                "beta"
>  ...                "gamma"
>  ...              )
>  >>> dis.dis(f1)
>    1           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('alpha')
>                3 LOAD_CONST               2 ('beta')
>                6 BINARY_ADD
>                7 LOAD_CONST               3 ('gamma')
>               10 BINARY_ADD
>               11 RETURN_VALUE
>  >>> dis.dis(f2)
>    1           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('alphabetagamma')
>                3 RETURN_VALUE

No. Or I would have chosen another example :-)

But now you point it out I see it's used quite frequently in the library.

Peter


 




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Sep 11 17:24:04 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:24:04 -0400
Subject: dumb q: repeated inheritance in python?
References: <a8623416.0309111319.14334945@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vm1q0o82j5j5ab@news.supernews.com>

"Corey Coughlin" <corey.coughlin at attbi.com> wrote in message
news:a8623416.0309111319.14334945 at posting.google.com...
> Hi, here's a silly question.  I'm wrote some code a while back that
> looks like this:
>
> import types
>
> class Named(object):
>     def __init__(self,nm=''):
>         self.iname = ''
>         self.setnm(nm)
>     def setnm (self,nm):
>         if isinstance(nm, types.StringType):
>             self.iname = nm
>         else:
>             raise TypeError, "Name passed to Named isn't a string."
>     def getnm (self):
>         return self.iname
>     name = property(getnm,setnm)
>
> Pretty basic, a name attribute with simple type checking, it works
> fine and the code using it is fine.  Well, it was, until I came up
> with an object that needed two names, with the same basic type
> checking.  Now the simplistic way to do that would be copy this class
> to another class, say Named2, rename the property name2 and be done
> with it.  On the other hand, having code that's basically an exact
> duplicate of other code except for some name changes seems a tad
> inelegant.  What I'd really like to do is inherit this same object
> twice, but the second time rename the objects so that I get 'name2'
> instead of 'name'.  (And somehow rename the functions, and so on.)
>
> But I can't figure out how to do it.  Is there some way to do this?  I
> suspect there might be some way to do it with metaclasses, but I
> haven't really wrapped my head around that stuff yet.  Maybe something
> with the new 'super' keyword?  Beats me.  Anyway, any help would be
> great, thanks!!!

Why do the two names have to be in the same object instance? I'd
think the simplest approach would be to bind two instances of your
Named class to two different identifiers.

Otherwise, if you actually need some kind of a collection class, I'd
purpose build one: NamedCollection, or some such.

John Roth





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Sep 25 04:36:20 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:36:20 +0200
Subject: Python Glossary
In-Reply-To: <16242.4957.967892.67902@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16241.53538.40615.455582@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030924201127.GA5122@nl.linux.org> <16242.4957.967892.67902@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030925083620.GA2421@nl.linux.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Gerrit> When I first read the tutorial (years ago), I was really
>     Gerrit> frightened by the section on complex numbers. 
> 
> Yes, complex numbers would be a good addition.  There is a note on above
> Wiki which indicates how to submit a term for which you don't know a
> definition.  Simply enter it as (for example)
> 
>  * complex number - ???
> 
> Someone else who comes along can fill in the definition.

Ah, someone appeared to have entered complex numbers along with a
definition already :)

>     Gerrit> I would have been helped then by a note that I would not need
>     Gerrit> them, and maybe even a short introduction of what they are
>     Gerrit> (however, I was 14, so I would probably not be able to
>     Gerrit> understand them).
> 
> You kids... ;-) When I was 14 I don't think I knew what a computer was.  We
> learned how to use slide rules in algebra class.  They didn't get any
> computers at my high school until at least a couple years after I graduated.

:)

Gerrit.

-- 
159. If any one, who has brought chattels into his father-in-law's
house, and has paid the purchase-money, looks for another wife, and says
to his father-in-law: "I do not want your daughter," the girl's father may
keep all that he had brought.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From rynt at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 10:46:38 2003
From: rynt at yahoo.com (Ruben Baumann)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:46:38 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org> <becf4072.0309082111.4ef1783f@posting.google.com> <3f5dec0d@news.comindico.com.au> <3F5E053D.743DA13A@easystreet.com> <87k78gbxc3.fsf@pobox.com> <3F5F373B.886D62FD@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <vlueafko711re0@corp.supernews.com>

<achrist at easystreet.com> wrote in message
news:3F5F373B.886D62FD at easystreet.com...
>
> It was WinNT SP6 with java sdk 1.4101. I figured that I had given
> jEdit and the JVM a fairly demanding test -- I don't have much idea
> how you could write an app in any language that could manage resources
> like memory without leaking or fragmenting at least a little once in a
> while, and after a run of a few weeks, something demised.
>
> It didn't really bother me much, but if it happened again, that would
> have bothered me.  As this thread has shown, there are plenty of
> other options for python coders, so I moved on to try another.  I see
> that there is a bug-fix pre-release of jEdit now out.  Maybe I'll
> give that a try.
>
>
> Al

You should also update your JVM.  As I understand it, Java 1.4101 had some
problems, and has been superceded by 1.4.2.

JFYI, I've used jEdit for a couple years now for various small projects, as
well as using it just to edit text.  With the plug-ins, you can build an
editor that works the way you want it to. The Jython plug-in works great!

The last release of Java, 1.4 was also a speed enhancement release, so jEdit
is a little peppier. :-)

HTH
Ruben






From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Thu Sep 11 21:47:51 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:47:51 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
Message-ID: <000701c378cf$e082ae90$0c02a8c0@Arts>

>What freedom of yours does me owning a gun infringe on? Your right not to
>worry?

If he ain't worried, he ain't paying attention.

This Septmeber 11.

Art





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 19:26:25 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:26:25 +0300
Subject: What's the best MP3 (ID3) access library to use?
References: <182bcf76.0309290349.452a6643@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ilfhnvkc06d4t18co1mbrqaso9ss5c9lpt@4ax.com>

On 29 Sep 2003 04:49:03 -0700, rumours say that
paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore) might have written:

>I'm looking for a Python library to access ID3 information in MP3
>files.
[snip]
>An example of the sort of thing I want to do - I've got some files
>with Artist = "Various" and Title = "Real Artist - Track Name" (from
>compilation albums) and I'd like to change that to Artist = "Real
>Artist", Title = "Track Name".

Unless you care for the hack value, you better use a free tool like this
one (which I have used):
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~cse/html/tag.html

I have written an ID3v1.1 module, which I will include in another doing
APE tags too, but I don't think this would help you if your songs have
ID3v2 tags.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From wt at nic.fi  Fri Sep 19 19:48:57 2003
From: wt at nic.fi (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:48:57 +0300
Subject: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
In-Reply-To: <0tMab.1173$1l5.741@reader1.news.jippii.net>
References: <dnfmmv0n8evvu238thm96t3k2iff7dm33d@4ax.com>	 <mailman.1063997966.12324.python-list@python.org>	 <lOqdnaG8ttWUxvaiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064005948.25386.python-list@python.org> <3F6B7FE7.445FB3BF@alcyone.com> <0tMab.1173$1l5.741@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <YxMab.1174$1l5.298@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Timo Virkkala wrote:
> Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
>> significant loads on mail servers.  Unfortunately, running an intensive,
>> per-user customized spam filtering solution like Spambayes _increases_
>> that load.
> 
> I'm using Mozilla MailNews, which has a bayesian filtering system 
> built-in. Works like a charm =)

...point beint, the filtering runs on my computer and doesn't waste any 
mail server resources.

Shouldn't post, when I'm this tired.. It's almost 3AM here (in Finland).

-- 
Timo Virkkala | wt at nic.fi

   "In the battle between you and the world, bet on the world."




From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 23 21:47:57 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:47:57 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Raymond Hettinger:
> Proposal
> ========
>
> Add a method called iter_backwards() to sequence objects that can benefit
> from it.  The above examples then simplify to::
>
>     for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
>         print seqn[i]
>
>     for elem in seqn.iter_backwards():
>         print elem

What about letting 'iter_backwards' be a builtin which
looks for __riter__ and if it doesn't exist, get the length
and do old-fashioned offset indexing?

Something like this untested code

def iter_backwards(obj):
  try:
     riter = getattr(obj, "__riter__")
  except AttributeError:
      n = len(obj)
      while n != 0:
          n = n -1
          yield obj[n]
  else:
    for term in riter():
        yield term

which would be used like

     for i in iter_backwards(xrange(n)):
         print seqn[i]

     for elem in iter_backwards(seqn):
         print elem

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Sep 26 02:54:56 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:54:56 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <slrnbn74ch.s2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <slrnap4tqk.18h.grante@localhost.localdomain> <jaf7nvs36d4h9hvt5lqmh5b1neqemogpc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4pRcb.3907$RW4.1952@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Tim Roberts:
>   * None of the standard command shells (CMD or COMMAND) will accept
> forward slashes.  Even the "cd ./tmp" example given in a previous post
> fails.

Yup.  I should have copy&pasted rather than just type it in.
It should have been in quotes.  The following does work for me

E:\dalke>cd ..

E:\>cd /dalke
The system cannot find the path specified.

E:\>cd ./dalke

E:\>cd "./dalke"

E:\dalke>ver

Windows NT Version 4.0

E:\dalke>

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From lionetti at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Thu Sep 11 13:20:47 2003
From: lionetti at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Fred Lionetti)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:20:47 -0700
Subject: Import question
Message-ID: <bjqau4$bqf$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Hi everyone,

Hopefully a quick question for someone out there--

If I have a file at C:\Python23\myfolder\mymodule.py

why can't I say (from python prompt or anywhere else):
import myfolder.mymodule    ????

When I try to do that I get the following error message:
ImportError: No module named myfolder.mymodule

Yet, myfolder really is in that location, and the sys.path includes
"C:\Python23\"

If I try appending "C:\Python23\myfolder" to sys.path then I can say import
mymodule, and it works--but that creates other problems with the file I'm
working with.

Any ideas????

Thanks,
Fred





From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 04:48:17 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:48:17 +0200
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr> <bj9h99$btm$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bj9ilh$dik$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bj9h99$btm$02$1 at news.t-online.com...
>
> "Sophie All?on" <alleon at club-internet.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7 at news.club-internet.fr...
>
>
> > for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
> > string while I want it
> > to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?
> >
>
> Luckily you are wrong! Keys can be numbers, strings, AND tuples of
immutable
> data!!!
>
> Example:
>
> a="first"
> b=2
> x={}
> x[(a,b)]="hi"
> print x
>
> However it will not work when assigning objects or lists to a or b.


... and so I had been wrong as well ;-)
Instances ARE immutables so it WILL work smoothly as others have already
posted.

MP





From alessandro at sephiroth.it  Mon Sep 22 12:16:00 2003
From: alessandro at sephiroth.it (Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth*)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:16:00 GMT
Subject: py2exe: dynamic module does not define init function
References: <81zbb.99124$hE5.3508075@news1.tin.it><FoCbb.100492$hE5.3545186@news1.tin.it><qaDbb.101005$hE5.3554558@news1.tin.it><SZDbb.140624$R32.4432440@news2.tin.it><0fEbb.101429$hE5.3567510@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064244729.6012.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4fFbb.141236$R32.4468899@news2.tin.it>

> pyaudiere.pyd => audiere.dll

in this way I receive the message:
ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initaudiere)

also launching the .pyw file

-- 

Alessandro Crugnola [sephiroth]
Flash | PHP Developer
http://www.sephiroth.it

Team Macromedia Volunteer for Flash
http://www.macromedia.com/go/team

Flash-php mailing list
http://www.flash-php.it/index.php?ml=fpcoders&action=subscribe






From brian094 at sympatico.ca  Fri Sep 19 15:10:09 2003
From: brian094 at sympatico.ca (Brian Alexander)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:10:09 -0400
Subject: mutex? protecting global data/critical section
Message-ID: <3F6B5491.9020907@sympatico.ca>

Hello;

I am trying to protect some global data, which may, in the future, be 
accessed by threads. I'm not sure how to implement a locking mechanism 
in python. Here is the idea I'm trying to express:

class resourceManager(object):
  def __init__(self):
   self.__resources = 100

  def getResource(self):
   BEGIN CRITICAL SECTION HERE
   if self.__resources > 0:
    self.__resources -= 1
    * other related state information adjusted, too *
   else:
    emergencyCode()
   END CRITICAL SECTION HERE

How is this accomplished? Does anyone know of a simple example?

Many thanks.

Brian.




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep 16 16:32:52 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:32:52 -0500
Subject: None, False, True
In-Reply-To: <FHJ9b.13226$x21.7557@twister.southeast.rr.com>
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>
        <bk7lq1$qicfh$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>
        <bk7mkg$4s$1@news.peterlink.ru>
        <FHJ9b.13226$x21.7557@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <16231.29556.660898.894225@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> If I remember it right, None is going to be promoted into keywords
    >> soon. Therefore the warning.

    M-a-S> Will it be lower-case (together with false and true) like all
    M-a-S> other keywords or is it just a start of mess?

Python is a case-sensitive language. Variables named "none" and "None" are
different.  It's unlikely that Python's case-sensitive properties will
change, so the SyntaxWarning will only be raised for "None".

Skip





From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 09:41:01 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:41:01 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours>
Message-ID: <bjco6f$fsc$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Basile STARYNKEVITCH" <basile-news at starynkevitch.net>

> ASCI are big US government (DoE or DoD) supercomputers (used
> notably for nuclear weapons computations).
>
> However, contrarily to Michael's belief, it won't surprise me at all
> that some big numerical computations are driven by scripting languages
> (scripts which call big number crunching primitives coded in C or C++
> or Fortran). At least in Europe, several number crunching applications
> are driven by scripts. Of course, a huge fraction of the CPU time (ie
> >= 98%) is spend in numerical routines coded in Fortran or C. Only a
> tiny fraction of the work is spent in interpreting scripts.
>
> I don't know if the ASCI boxes are running numerical computations
> driven by Python (or Ruby) scripts, but obviously they could (and
> sometimes similar applications are designed around a scripting
> language).


This thought had occured to me too after posting  it, but I have no
information. One of the things that impressed me in Python was that it is
aware of complex numbers and it has NumPy (which in fact is *not* Python).
Though I think that this very rarely is stated as one of Python's
overwhelming assets and most people even wonder what this can be used for
;-)

But you bring up Python's aspects as a "glue language". Is Python the better
"glue language"? May be. Have look at DISLIN which (I think) is a FORTRAN
project by nature. And SIP and WSIG are quite nice.

However the *real* programs then are the mathematical packages, OpenGL,
simulation and visualisation.

But may be the whole concept of programming is changing somehow - not in the
direction of OOP; that is "by the way" so to speak. But to the following
understanding:
    A program is an entity that controls other entities by support of an
underlying virtual machine.

This new view will support the existing differentiation between package
maker ("real programmer") and scripting user ("domain specialist")

In this interpretation (as secondary glue language) I see a good future for
Python.

So we most of our time have to learn what this virtual machine does (in its
yearly upgrading versions) and how to interface the "other entities". When
looking through this NG most of the topics touch these issues. In the past
it would have been unthinkable to get your assemply program running without
the most detailled understanding of every machine instruction you used....
You might already have guessed, that I belong to the generation that learnt
programming the Knuthian way, starting with assembly language and beeing
always aware that a van Neumann hardware interpreted their compiled code.
And input and output were a teletype.....

Kindly
Michael P





From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Tue Sep 30 13:16:49 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:16:49 GMT
Subject: intercepting smtp email
In-Reply-To: <vnj8qip9k85a39@news.supernews.com>
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj6j3dv1di62b@news.supernews.com> <blc6f3$3si$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj8qip9k85a39@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <5Uieb.49566$Lw6.2263065@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Woldn't this require something like winpcap? I know some folks have 
attempted to call winpcap from within Python, but I don't know if they 
succeeded. If my memory serves well, it was Gerhard H?ring who did 
something with it.

I would also be interested in something similar, but then for MSN 
traffic. Decoding the MSN Messenger stream is not the problem, capturing 
the traffic from a promiscous nic in Python is where I get stuck.

>>Now you got me corious, is that possible in python?
>>Possibly by extending it with som C of course...
> 
> 
> I've got no idea where you would put that kind of hook
> in Windows.
> 
> John Roth
<snip>
>>>>>I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
>>>>>traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can
> do
>>>>>something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
>>>>>outgoing traffic, specifically.




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Sep  4 13:11:57 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:11:57 +0300
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
References: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com> <vle0j01npmca27@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <qeselv8j6tgsg151ig4v55jdq5pmvbvfmk@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:14:08 -0000, rumours say that claird at lairds.com
(Cameron Laird) might have written:

>In article <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA at comcast.com>,
>Marc <losnations at comcast.net> wrote:

[Marc]
>>I was thinking about developing a drag and drop application and was curious
>>how difficult it is to do. Basically I want to have a set of objects that I
>>move around the screen and drop into place.

- Cameron -
>LOTS of applications--several I've written, I
>know--do this sort of thing.  You'll need to
>learn about bind(), and most likely the events
>  <1>
>  <B1-Motion>
>  <ButtonRelease-1>
>in particular:  you'll teach <1> to start a
>drag, <B1-Motion> to display the dragged object
>moving around the screen, and <ButtonRelease-1>
>to finish the drop.
>
>Have you read <URL: http://
>groups.google.com/groups?as_q=drag+drop+tkinter&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python >?

I should add that drag and drop in the same application can be done
easily, but it's hard to do it between your application and others (too
much window manager dependencies...)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From timr at probo.com  Tue Sep  2 11:53:52 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:53:52 -0700
Subject: Binary data handling ?
In-Reply-To: <004a01c37057$bc02ed80$6400a8c0@EVOD31>
Message-ID: <200309021553.h82FrqG17311@probo.probo.com>

>> "Bill Loren" <lorenb2 at bezeqint.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I'm having difficulties to accomplish some simple chores with binary
>> >data.  I'm having a string (?) which I received via an HTTP 
>> >transactions which is a binary file. Problem is the webserver I'm 
>> >communicating with injected a \x0D before every \x0A, and I need to
>> >remove those 0x0D characters from my buffer before saving it to disk.
>> >
>> >any ideas ?

Tim wrote:

>> I'll bet you real money that the problem is not in the web server.  I'd
>> wager that the string is correct when you receive it, but that you are
>> writing it to file like this:
>>    file('out.txt','w').write(download)
>>
>> On a Windows system, that'll turn all the LFs into CR-LFs.  Use this
>> instead:
>>    file('out.txt','wb').write(download)

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:07:41 +0200, Bill Loren wrote:
>
>Indeed !
>
>thanks !!!
>
>if I use the 'wb' will it work on a unix system, too ?

Yes.  The 'b' is ignored on Unix.


--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.






From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Mon Sep 15 23:01:00 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 20:01:00 -0700
Subject: ANN: PyQt v3.8 Released
References: <mailman.1061147189.23632.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1061196870.3067.python-list@python.org> <43e3984e.0309110116.18b9d065@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063536744.11048.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309151901.792d7336@posting.google.com>

Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063536744.11048.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thursday 11 September 2003 10:16 am, ulysses wrote:
> > Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:<mailman.1061196870.3067.python-list at python.org>...
> >
> > > On Monday 18 August 2003 2:59 am, John Taylor wrote:
> > > > Phil,
> > > >
> > > > Does PyQT support the ability to minimize an app to the lower right
> > > > tray, next to the clock?  If so, could you please post some example
> > > > code?
> > >
> > > What platform?
> > >
> > > If you mean Windows then QApplication.winEventFilter() and
> > > QWidget.winEvent() were added to PyQt v3.4 at the specific request of
> > > somebody who wanted to do this. Sorry, but I don't have example code.
> > >
> > > Phil
> >
> > I find QT have a trayicon example in C++, I study it. But I can't
> > convert it to python . Can you give some advice. Thanks.
> 
> Not really. Maybe try converting a simpler C++ example to Python to get 
> practice, or study the examples that have already been converted.
> 
> Phil

It's very difficult convert C++ example to Python. Dear Phil Thompson ,
Why not give us a cool example .

I can't find the trayicon examples in PyQt examples. 
You know Trayicon function is very important in Win32 platform.
I do a freeware,but freeware and commercial software 
need this function too. :)


Ulysses



From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 20 10:03:18 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:03:18 GMT
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
Message-ID: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it>

All my mailboxes have been filling up with files of about 130k to 150k, no 
doubt copies of some immensely popular virus.  So, I've no doubt lost lots
of real mail because of "mailbox full" conditions (the proliferating fake 
bounce messages more or less ensure nobody knows their mail to me has 
bounced, either).

As an emergency response I and Anna developed, over the last half hour, a 
small Python script to be run from cron every few minutes and automatically
scrub any POP3 mailbox from files in the target size range.  I'm saving them
to a local file for potential later perusal, but that's obviously easy to 
comment out if needed.  Here's the tiny script in question...:

import poplib
import time

print 'Start at', time.asctime()

host = 'pop.mail.yahoo.com'
port = 110
user = 'aleaxit'
pasw = 'secret'

logfilename = 'bigjunk'
minsize = 130000
maxsize = 180000
fromtag = 'From aleaxit at yahoo.com  %s\n'

ps = poplib.POP3(host, port)
ps.user(user)
ps.pass_(pasw)

messages = ps.list()
print '%d messages, %d bytes' % (len(messages[1]), messages[-1])

logfile = open(logfilename, 'a')

for sms in messages[1]:
    sid, ssize = sms.split()
    if minsize <= int(ssize) < maxsize:
        message = ps.retr(sid)
        print 'retrieving and deleting msg#%s, %d bytes, %d lines' % (
            sid, message[-1], len(message[1]))
        logfile.write(fromtag % time.asctime())
        for line in message[1]:
            logfile.write(line)
            logfile.write("\n")
        logfile.write('\n')
        ps.dele(sid)

ps.quit()

print 'Done at', time.asctime()
print


Hope it can come in useful to somebody...!!!

Alex & Anna




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep  1 21:19:20 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:19:20 -0600
Subject: Structured writing to console, such as a table
In-Reply-To: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C8541FC0B@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.g
 e.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030901191456.02e89dd8@66.28.54.253>

At 02:37 PM 9/1/2003 -0500, Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:

>Ok, perhaps a question on a newbie level.
>
>I try to create a simple 'write to a console application' where all the 
>items in a string
>do have a variable size:
>items = ["a", "bbbbbbbbb", "cc"]
>Well, actually, I need to print a table as simple text, nice lined up in a 
>console.
>So:
>
>
>Item:       Value:     Another Value:
>----------+----------+------------------
>a         | 1        | 2
>bbbbbbbbb | 2        | 17
>cc        | 3        | 5
>
>My hope was that somewhere in python land an existing module was waiting 
>for me.
>A module that also prints lines, headers....
>
>Unfortunately, I can't find it. Books, Google...
>Before I reinvent this wheel... please give me some tips, references, 
>examples...

In addition to other responses, consider this which uses nested % 
formatting to make format strings for reuse:

class Table:
   seps = '- +|'
   def __init__(self, *columnWidths):
     if columnWidths:
       self.setWidths(columnWidths)
   def setWidths(self, columnWidths):
     self.columnWidths = columnWidths
     format1 = ("%%%%-%ss%%s"*len(columnWidths))[:-3]
     format2 = format1 % columnWidths
     self.nSeps = len(columnWidths) - 1
     self.hdrFormat = format2 % ((self.seps[1], )*self.nSeps)
     self.sepFormat = format2 % ((self.seps[2], )*self.nSeps)
     self.rowFormat = format2 % ((self.seps[3], )*self.nSeps)
   def printHdr(self, *heading):
     print self.hdrFormat % heading
   def printSep(self):
     print self.sepFormat % tuple([self.seps[0]*w for w in self.columnWidths])
   def printRow(self, *items):
     print self.rowFormat % items
print

tbl = Table(12, 12, 16)
tbl.printHdr('Item:', 'Value:', 'Another Value:')
tbl.printSep()
tbl.printRow('a', 1, 2)
tbl.printRow('bbbbbbb', 2, 17)
tbl.printRow('cc', 3, 5)


Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Thu Sep  4 20:14:38 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:14:38 -0400
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
In-Reply-To: <bj8f4v$8kl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>; from buzzard@urubu.freeserve.co.uk on Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 11:46:09PM +0100
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bj8f4v$8kl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030904201438.A27975@cerberus.liberty>

* Duncan Smith (buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk) wrote:
> 
> "Martin Christensen" <knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk> wrote in message
> news:87y8x4w6ym.fsf at gvdnet.dk...
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Howdy!
> >
> > Suppose I have a list A containing elements that I want to put into
> > list B if they satisfy some property. The obvious way of doing it
> > would be,
> >
> > B = []
> > for i in A:
> >     if A.property():
> >        B.append(i)
> >
> > Now, list comprehensions, map() etc. can make a lot of list operations
> > easier, but I haven't found a shorter, more elegant way of doing this.
> > Have I missed something, or will I have to stick to my explicit loops?
> >
> > Martin
> >
> 
> Is this the sort of thing you mean?
> 
> >>> A = [0, 1, 2, 'four', 'five', 6.0]
> >>> [x for x in A if isinstance(x, str)]
> ['four', 'five']
> >>>
> 

filter() works well as well:


>>> foo
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>> filter(lambda x: x > 4, foo)
[5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

Jeremy Jones




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Sep  5 13:06:55 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 17:06:55 GMT
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
References: <mailman.1062538564.1958.python-list@python.org> <bj4crt$1uq$1@news.web.de> <PRr5b.22979$NC2.17137@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <bja60k$pe5$1@news.web.de>
Message-ID: <Po36b.291$w41.85@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> >>>Looks like a bug to me too. Stefan, please raise a bug report on
Sourceforge
> > Just assign the bug to me.  I'm
> > already working on the solution.

[Stephan]
> Done, see:
>
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=800796

Okay, it's fixed now.


Raymond Hettinger





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Sep 26 15:08:04 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:08:04 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu> <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-AF4213.10592426092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <570db.13677$yD1.1528179@news20.bellglobal.com>

I'll put it another way. I'm not interested in the semantics, nor in the
implementation. My interest is in the syntax. If this feature can be added
to the language (and I don't care whether it can or cannot be), then I would
prefer to read code like

for i in ireverse(xrange(n)):

than

for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards(n):

And there ends my superficial concerns in this matter. If my proposed syntax
implies more than the other syntax proposals, then I withdraw the
suggestion. I've no interest in arguing about whether those, or any other,
implications can be met. I'm talking sugar. You're talking substance. And I
don't care. If it can be done, let it be done, and give it pretty name. If
it can't be done, then it doesn't much matter what name you give it.

I hope were done here,
Sean





From mpeuser at web.de  Sun Sep 21 06:21:36 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:21:36 +0200
Subject: Tkinter-PhotoImage question
References: <3F6CB8F4.8020001@aon.at>
Message-ID: <bkju12$41d$04$1@news.t-online.com>

"Gregor Lingl" <glingl at aon.at> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3F6CB8F4.8020001 at aon.at...
> Hi all,
>
> The Tkinter PhotoImage Widget can be set to
> "transparent" with the method blank().
>
> Moreover the color of single pixels or
> definite regions can be set with method put.
>
> I'd like to set single pixels (or some rectangular
> regions) to "transparent". Can I use put to
> accomplish this, and if so, which first argument
> ("data") have I to pass to put?
>
> If not, is there another way to do it?

Hi Gregor,
I know of no way to accomplish this with PhotoImage... I am using PIL which
is *much* more versatile, you have true alpha-blending and masks, and it
also works faster with larger images.

Kindly
MichaelP





From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Sep 28 17:52:45 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:52:45 GMT
Subject: Checking for invalid keyword arguments?
References: <roy-B6EED5.17061128092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <NKIdb.185412$R32.6000071@news2.tin.it>

Roy Smith wrote:

> I've got a function that takes a couple of optional keyword arguments.
> I want to check to make sure I didn't get passed an argument I didn't
> expect.  Right now I'm doing:
> 
>         conversion = None
>         drop = False
>         for key, value in kwArgs.items():
>             if key == 'conversion':
>                 conversion = value
>             elif key == 'drop':
>                 drop = value
>             else:
>                 raise TypeError ('Unexpected keyword argument %s' % key)
> 
> which seems kind of verbose.  Is there a neater way to do this check?

Sure, particularly in Python 2.3:

    conversion = kwArgs.pop('conversion', None)
    drop = kwArgs.pop('drop', False)
    if kwArgs:
        raise TypeError("Unexpected keyword args: %s" % kwArgs.keys())

The .pop method of dictionary objects, new in 2.3, removes a key from
a dict (if present), returning the corresponding value (or a supplied
default -- if key is absent and no default supplied, it raises).  So,
if anything is still left in kwArgs after the two pops, we know there
were "unknown and ignored" keyword arguments in dict kwArgs.

Of course, in most cases you'd simply declare your function with:

    <funcname>(<whatever other args>, conversion=None, drop=False):

and no **kwArgs, and just let Python do the checking for you.  But
when the kwArgs DO have to come in a dict (as, rarely, does happen,
for a variety of peculiar reasons), the new 2.3 idiom will help.


Alex




From glc at well.com  Fri Sep 12 11:03:40 2003
From: glc at well.com (Greg Chapman)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:03:40 GMT
Subject: super confused
References: <63qrlv8p4sqt7mossa6kimfloa0au416f5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7rn3mvoq7qdv1tiaioasu9pro99lnb9uvq@4ax.com>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 07:56:27 -0700, Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote:

>In Smalltalk, a message send to 'super' simply means to send a message
>to self but start looking in the superclass first for the method. I
>realize Smalltalk is a single-inheritance language, but doesn't
>explain why, in Python, you need to specify the class name as a
>parameter.

You can get something like this using the autosuper trick from
Lib/test/test_descr.py.  You end up sending messages to self.__super, but at
least it avoids repeatedly typing long class names in the method
implementations.  If you don't like using metaclasses, you could create a
function to add the __super attribute after the class has been declared:

def class_mangle_name(klassname, attrname):
    klassname = re.sub('^_+', '', klassname)
    if klassname:
        return '_'+klassname+attrname
    return attrname


def addsuper(cls):
    setattr(cls, class_mangle_name(cls.__name__, '__super'), super(cls))

class ValidatedList(list):
    def append(self, objekt):
        _validate(objekt)
        self.__super.append(objekt)
    ...

addsuper(ValidatedList)

---
Greg Chapman
    



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep 15 01:36:50 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 01:36:50 -0400
Subject: Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <FxednV9rKLKlKf6iRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <pdb9mv42covtudsfnfj02lakbniufabt6t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bk3j5i$i32$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <pdb9mv42covtudsfnfj02lakbniufabt6t at 4ax.com>,
Gary Feldman  <gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net> wrote:
>
>The main benefit of threads is performance.  Sharing data among
>the threads is often faster than sharing data among processes (you
>don't need to deal with shm_get, etc. for sharing memory on UNIX
>systems).  Locking the shared data is likewise often faster.  Finally,
>my understanding of the MS Windows world is that threads as a general
>rule are more efficient than processes.

The main disadvantage of free-threading lies with external libraries
that are not thread-safe (not even talking about thread-hot).  It's
*much* easier to work with external libraries that are explicitly
designed to work with Python's threading system.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Sep 24 13:50:56 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:50:56 -0000
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vn3mc082vjju1a@corp.supernews.com>

In article <roy-002696.23242122092003 at reader2.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some 
>point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost 
>certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince 
>them otherwise.
>
>The basic design of the application is object oriented.  I've never used 
>Perl's OO features, so I'm not in a good position to make a comparison 
>of the two languages from an OO point of view.  Can somebody who's done 
>OOP in both Python and Perl help me out?
>
>I certainly know why Perl sucks in general, but for this purpose, I need 
>to specifically compare the OO features of the two.  I'm looking for 
>something more fundamental than "->{} is ugly".

Roy, while the usual crowd has given you good general counsel,
I think you deserve to know that, yes, there *is* a story 
specifically about Perl's OO.

Briefly, Perl wasn't designed as OO, and it was added on as a
(too-clever) hack.  Python was OO from the beginning.

That argument smacks of *ad hominem*.  <URL: http://
wiki.slowass.net/?HowDoesPerlStackUp > has details.

Counter-argument:  Damian's *Object-Oriented Perl* is superb.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep 22 16:27:57 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 22:27:57 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <38ec68a6.0309212224.1ca9edeb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3wuc0601e.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere) writes:

> > The usage of SZ has only been eliminated in the recent change of
> > the amtliche Rechtschreibung.
> > 
> 
> And replaced with what?  ie. is there now a single capital for SZ?

Unfortunately, I don't have a current Duden here, but I *think* you
now have to write double-S. There is, of course, the old MASSE vs
MASZE issue - I don't know whether this is considered relevant, as
capitalization is rare, anyway, and ambiguities can be clarified from
the context.

Regards,
Martin




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Sep 27 10:14:39 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:14:39 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322: Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <1NFcb.62896$gV.2762@news2.central.cox.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309251950570.11383-100000@urchin.earth.li>
Message-ID: <PtZd/ks/KPAE089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309251950570.11383-100000 at urchin.earth.li>,
Tom Anderson <twic at urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Steve Holden wrote:
>
>> "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote ...
>> > Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.
>> [...]
>> >    It crashes when applied to an infinite iterator.
>> [...]
>> Hmm. My little brain is having difficulty imagining anything that won't.
>> What am I missing?
>
>ideally, riter(riter(someInfiniteIterator)) would work, though!

:>  But I wouldn't wait for it, any more than I would
wait for

        t = 1 / (1 / 0.0)

I can imagine seeing an InfiniteIteratorException coming up
if I were to call for generalized reverse iteration wrongly.

        Regards.        Mel.



From felix_mcallister at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  8 06:08:48 2003
From: felix_mcallister at hotmail.com (Felix McAllister)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:08:48 +0100
Subject: Python documentation in Windows Help file format?
References: <pQU6b.4401$ZB4.1093@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <TyY6b.30854$pK2.50912@news.indigo.ie>

Download the ActiveState python distribution (currently 2.2.2). The install contains a Windows CHM file with the core documentation, etc.

Felix.
> Seems to be missing? It would be great, because it would contain an 
> Index and Search features automatically. Now the search is very hard to 
> do, and Index page in html format is too big.
> 
> The full API and C reference would be great, but even the Quick 
> Reference available here would be fine:
> 
> http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/python/PQR.html
> 
> Unfortunately the Windows compiled help in above seems to be broken.
> 
> Here is another:
> http://www.orgmf.com.ar/condor/pytstuff.html
> 
> But has version 2.2 only. Downloading at the moment.
> 
> Harri



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 23 02:41:21 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:41:21 GMT
Subject: "Protected" property in Python?
References: <1rgll5pslncci.1iu0qs9ekf45q.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <lWRbb.144877$R32.4682582@news2.tin.it>

Jules Dubois wrote:

> I'm want to create a superclass with nothing but attributes and
> properties. Some of the subclasses will do nothing but provide values for
> the attributes.
> 
> (I'd also like to make sure (1) that the subclass provides actual values
> for the attributes and (2) that no "client" module adds or removes
> attributes or properties, but I don't know how to do those.)

You'll need a custom metaclass; you need to read up on this concept,
but these days you can find explanations on the net.  Any class is an
instance of a metaclass -- the class statement implies a call to the
metaclass, which in turn means the MC's __new__ then __init__ as
in any other class-call (instantiation) -- and that call must provide and
initialize the class object.

Not sure what you mean by "client" module, but in general Python is
not about stopping Python programers from performing tasks -- so if
you see your task as one of placing inhibitions on other Pythonistas
who want to use your code, you're in for a fight.  Still, you can do a good
job of ensuring that things don't happen _accidentally_, and that is
generally good enough -- a "malicious" other programmer is quite a
different kettle of fish, though.


Anyway, your problem has nothing to do with these difficult issues
(it's more of an issue of running before one can walk):

> I don't understand what I'm doing wrong, or maybe what I want to do is
> impossible.  Here's a stripped down version of the code:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> #! /usr/bin/python
> class SuperClass(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.__statusCode = "value bound in SUPERCLASS"
>     getStatusCode = property(lambda self: self.__statusCode)

This mangles the identifier __statusCode within class SuperClass,
giving _SuperClass__statusCode.

> class SubClass(SuperClass):
>     def __init__(self):
> #        SuperClass.__init__(self)
>         self.__statusCode = "value bound in SUBCLASS"

But this mangles it within class SubClass, giving _SubClass__statusCode, a 
different identifier.  That's what leading __ is all about: giving an 
identifier that strictly depends on the class where it's LEXICALLY found.
If you don't want that, don't use two leading underscores: use just one
(advisory indicator of privacy) and be happy.  Or, you *CAN* simulate by
hand the mangling, though there's little point in so doing -- e.g., in 
SuperClass, you can code:

    def getStatusCode(self):
        attr_name = '_%s__statusCode' % self.__class__.__name__
        return getattr(self, attr_name)
    statusCode = property(getStatusCode)

note that the leading get normally denotes an accessor method -- the
point of properties is having something that doesn't LOOK like a getter,
so naming one with a leading 'get' is quite peculiar.

> Why is the lambda function attempting to access the superclass' attribute
> and not the subclass' attribute?  Can I make it not do that?

Sure.

> If I replace "__statusCode" with "_statusCode", the output is
> 
>   value bound in SUBCLASS
> 
> as I want.  However, "_statusCode" is then visible from the outside, as I
> don't want.

There is no way to make the value NOT "visible from the outside" -- WITH
the leading underscores, it's STILL visible, as "_SubClass__statusCode",
anyway.  If you stashed the value away in a remote dict and encoded it
with strong cryptography, it would STILL be visible -- nothing stops a
halfway determined attacker from duplicating whatever way your superclass
uses to get at it.  Treating "client code programmers" as enemies and your
task as one of fighting against them to stop them from "abusing" your
pristine design is not Python's strength -- indeed the tools you used to 
have for this fight, rexec and Bastion, were recently removed as they did
not prove strong enough for this thankless task.  In Python, you had better
think of all these mechanisms as ADVISORY "security" -- and then the
simple convention of the one leading underscore should be ample: anybody
who deliberately uses an identifier starting with a leading underscore is
knowingly going beyond the interface to the implementation, anyway.  The
TWO leading underscores serve the specific purpose of allowing programmers
who code subclasses to blissfully ignore whatever private implementation
names the superclass has used for attributes, as it ensures against any
accidental name clashes -- using them for *communication* between base
and derived classes is weird, since they're mainly for *isolating* base from
derived classes.


> Am I missing something about how Python works?
> 
> Is my problem more fundamental, like not understanding OO programming?
> 
> I'm able to RTFM if someone would provide a pointer.

Googling for:
    Python metaclass
gives you plenty of material to chew on.  I also suggest my presentation on
the subject, PDF slides at http://www.strakt.com/docs/ep03_meta.pdf .


Alex




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Sep  9 08:52:04 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:52:04 +0200
Subject: set built-in func_code?
In-Reply-To: <bjkg28$pi3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bjk4v2$6iv$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5D9A9E.1000305@ghaering.de>
	<mailman.1063099392.17355.python-list@python.org>
	<bjkg28$pi3$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F5DCCF4.20804@ghaering.de>

Birgit Rahm wrote:
> By the way, what's about __import__?

__import__ lets you dynamically import modules. The most common use case 
is if you only know at runtime, which module you want to import. 
Programs that have some kind of plugin architecture use __import__, for 
example.

-- Gerhard




From other at cazabon.com  Wed Sep 10 01:27:12 2003
From: other at cazabon.com (Kevin)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:27:12 GMT
Subject: CGI -- generating images -- \x0A always added!
References: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com> <0qy7b.933399$3C2.21274722@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <QCy7b.925618$ro6.18543615@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>

Actually the easy answer to your question is use:

    sys.stdout.write(yourImageData)

instead of

    print yourImageData


That won't print the newline at the end.

Kevin.





From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Sun Sep  7 15:36:03 2003
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 21:36:03 +0200
Subject: win32com: create email message in windows default app?
References: <z9I6b.18545$n94.7236@fed1read04> <bjfpt5$l3s$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <ubrtw2xy4.fsf@online.no>

"News M Claveau /Hamster-P" <essai1 at mci.local> writes:

> Hi !
> 
> But what is "windows default email application" ?

That is the application currently chosen as the mail application in
Internet Options / Programs. These settings will be used by any
application that is a Mapi client.

 
> In windows, with WSH, you can write :
>     Dim str,objEmail
>     Set objEmail = CreateObject("CDO.Message")
>     objEmail.From = "toto at titi.fr"
>     objEmail.To = "tata at tutu.com"
>     objEmail.Subject = "Msg-try"
>     objEmail.Textbody = "Corps (body) du (of) message."
>     objEmail.Send
>     Wscript.quit

You should be equally able to use this with python. Just use
win32com.client instead:

Like this:

import win32com.client
objEmail = win32com.client.Dispatch('CDO.Message')
and so on.

That reason that this works is that CDO uses Mapi behind the scenes.


-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Sep  5 23:14:59 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:14:59 -0700
Subject: Python port to Swiss Ephemeris work with 2.3?
In-Reply-To: <vlgutinh4i8l12@news.supernews.com>
References: <734b753f.0309041612.2066021@posting.google.com> <vlfqpk4hup6621@news.supernews.com> <734b753f.0309042237.5ded1230@posting.google.com> <vlgutinh4i8l12@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030906031459.GA1186@isis.gerrietts.net>

Quoting John Roth (newsgroups at jhrothjr.com):
> You need to recompile using the same compiler that Python was
> compiled with (I believe that's VC 6 for the Windows version.)
> Extension modules ***always*** need to be recompiled for major
> Python releases.

Is that really true under Windows? It's not true on Unix releases:
Guido takes exquisite care to make sure that Python releases are
binary-compatible. Is it possible that moving the file around somehow
might make Python sufficiently aware?

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
-rw-rw-rw-:         permissions of the beast




From ark at acm.org  Tue Sep  9 09:32:06 2003
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:32:06 GMT
Subject: Ternery operator
References: <1063110398.3f5dc6fe94f18@mcherm.com> <mailman.1063111092.12992.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yu99ekyqozop.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>

Richie> So it's lazy in the sense of "will not execute the branch not
Richie> taken", which is I'm sure what Uwe meant.  But it's also
Richie> over-eager in the sense of "may execute the taken branch
Richie> multiple times."

Multiple times?  How?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at acm.org



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Sep 26 10:41:37 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:41:37 -0400
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
Message-ID: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Since a significant part of Python is only documented in PEPs, I am
disappointed to see that they can't be easily found.  Where are they?

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Sep  5 17:57:48 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 21:57:48 GMT
Subject: Coding Style:  Defining Functions within Methods?
References: <70df36e9.0309050837.1660cdf4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjb0ss$nvl$0@216.39.172.122>

On 5 Sep 2003 09:37:05 -0700, harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com (Harry Pehkonen) wrote:

>I have been defining new class methods when I'm trying to simplify
>some code.  But I'm thinking I should just define functions within
>that method because they aren't useful from the outside anyway. 
>Example:
>
>
>Before:
>
>class Mess(object):
>    def complicated(self, count):
>        for i in count:
>            self.do_loop(i)
>    def do_loop(self, i):
>        ...whatever...
>
>
>After:
>
>class Cleaner(object):
>    def complicated(self, count):
>        def do_loop(i)
>            ...whatever...
>        for i in count:
>            do_loop(i)
>
>The point is that do_loop is now not ``contaminating'' things.  I
>suppose do_loop could be __do_loop, but it would still show up in
>places where I don't think it should (such as dir(Mess)).
>
>Thoughts?

I like defining nested functions except for the fact that a definition is executable code
in itself, and will be re-executed each time the outer function or method is called. I'm
not sure how long MAKE_FUNCTION or MAKE_CLOSURE take to execute, but IWT it must mean allocating
and glueing together the dynamic elements necessary for a distinct function/closure instance,
and then disposing of them at some point on/after their going out of scope, vs. e.g. just locating
a sibling method.

OTOH, the outer overhead may become relatively insignificant if the inner is called boocoo times
in a loop and/or recursively.

On the third hand, clear code will outweigh any performance issues for much code.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Sep  3 17:11:19 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 17:11:19 -0400
Subject: installing PyQt
References: <9badaf0.0309031219.666fa852@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ur82xh91k.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

michaelmossey at yahoo.com (Michael Mossey) writes:

> Hi, I'm trying to install PyQt for windows together with
> non-commercial Qt version 2.3.0.  When I try to run a sample Qt
> program I get this error:
> 
>   File "c:/DOCUME~1/mossey/LOCALS~1/Temp/python-1872fAk", line 1, in ?
>     from main_qt import *
>   File "main_qt.py", line 2, in ?
>     from qt import *
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\site-packages\qt.py", line 17, in ?
>     import libsip
> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> 
> I'm assuming it can't find libsip.dll.  This file is located in the
> directory C:\Program Files\Python22\Lib\site-packages\ and I added
> that directory to both the PYTHONPATH and the PATH.  This is windows
> 2000 so I used the system dialog to do it, and then rebooted the
> computer (I don't know if rebooting is necessary).  I keep getting the
> same error.  I tried copying libsip.dll to the C:\winnt directory and
> it still didn't find it.  Can someone familiar with Python on Windows
> 2000 give me a clue here?

It's hard to believe that it won't find libsip.dll if it's in the
site-packages directory since that's part of your default Python
search path (even without a PYTHONPATH setting).  And since libsip is
a direct "import" (and not a system DLL dependency), the search path
that governs things is Pythons (e.g., sys.path, including PYTHONPATH)
and not the Windows system search path (aka PATH).

But it wouldn't hurt for you to verify sys.path after starting a copy
of Python just to ensure that it has all the directories you expect.

So if we assume libsip itself is found, the problem could be in
loading it due to another dependency.  Do you have the underlying Qt
DLL (I forget the exact name for the non-commercial version) also
somewhere in the system PATH?  libsip.dll depends on the Qt DLL, and
if it fails to find it, libsip in turn will fail to load and can
produce precisely the traceback as above.

Although if it is a failing dependent DLL, in such a case typically
you'll also get a system dialog complaining about not finding the
underlying dependent DLL, but maybe you've just answered that dialog
without reading it closely?  (or maybe somehow those dialogs are being
suppressed in your setup)

Another alternative would be some other dependency - it might be worth
checking if all the dependencies for libsip.dll can be resolved on
your system.  A tool like depends (comes with various MS
toolkits/development environments), or cygcheck (if you have cygwin)
or others you can download can check this.

-- David



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 29 19:48:29 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:48:29 -0400
Subject: PEP-0263 and default encoding
References: <3f782aef-bdbbd6f1-a72a-4a6c-8b23-c4915b89a61f@news.szn.dk> <blaau5$b0r$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <vnhh7etad1t566@news.supernews.com>

"News M Claveau /Hamster-P" <essai1 at mci.local> wrote in message
news:blaau5$b0r$1 at news-reader3.wanadoo.fr...
> Yes !  Why ?
>
>     And, me (french), i add  :
>             # -*- coding: cp1252 -*-
>     at begin of my scripts. But... and if i want do a script for two,
three,
> etc. languages ?
>
> or
>
>     How have  Ascii  AND  non-ascii  caracters in scripts ?
>
>
> * sorry for my bad english *

Use UTF-8. That's what it's there for.

Remember that the actual Python program has to be in
ASCII - only the text in string literals can be in different
character sets. I'm not sure about comments.

John Roth

>
>
> @-salutations
> -- 
> Michel Claveau
>
>
>
>





From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep 16 16:37:03 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:37:03 +0300
Subject: Missing python23_d.lib in Windows Python 2.3
In-Reply-To: <VhJ9b.38$rX6.3414074@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <VhJ9b.38$rX6.3414074@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <isK9b.170$2k.167@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Partho Bhowmick wrote:
> I am building extension modules for Python 2.3 under Windows using MS Visual
> Studio .Net 2003.
> In the debug build, there is a pragma statement in <pyconfig.h> that causes
> a link to the lib python23_d.lib
> This library does not exist.
> Am I missing something or is the installation missing something?

The standard distribution does not come with a debug version of that 
library.

You can get around it by doing:

#ifdef _DEBUG
#undef _DEBUG
#include <python.h>
#define _DEBUG
#else
#include <python.h>
#endif

Ugly but it works.

Harri




From richie at entrian.com  Mon Sep  8 09:54:19 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:54:19 +0100
Subject: More Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <3F5C51DB.6070700@ghaering.de>
References: <005401c375eb$1ea0b9c0$0a00a8c0@JASPER> <3F5C51DB.6070700@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <htpolv8f9v675vd49pmug3uhddfva8n87f@4ax.com>

[Tim]
> [...] I was merely reacting to some unfounded criticisms of the
> design I'd put forward. If I seem to have been a little over the top
> then I apologise profusely but as you can imagine the reaction to 8
> weeks of hard work that had been put in by quite a few people.
> Comments like the one you have made just make me realise how much
> time we've all wasted.

[Gerhard]
> Thanks for your work on this. I for one *do* like your design prototype. 
> And I'm unpleasantly surprised by the tone of the criticism as well.

Hear, hear.  Regardless of whether one thinks the new design is an
improvement (or even a worthwhile project to undertake), it should be
clear that an awful lot of work has gone into it.  People should take that
into account when choosing how to express their opinions.

For the record, I believe the Python website looks dated and could use
some improvement.  I have a few small problems with the proposed redesign,
but I do think that given the simple question "which is better", the new
one (with its typography issues resolved) is better.  Here are some
(hopefully constructive and dispassionate 8-) comments:

 o There is no "What is Python".  A homepage should explain what the
   company/organisation/product/project *is*, either there on the homepage
   or one unambiguous link away.

 o *All* of the non-navigation content is dedicated to case studies, "News
   and announcements" and "Features and articles".  This will need to be
   constantly updated, or you'll find that the same content sits there
   forever.  Be careful - don't commit yourself to updating a
   dynamic-looking site for ever more, when you could publish a more
   static-looking site that still fulfills all the requirements.  (I speak
   from experience here.)

 o It could be a fluke, but it looks like the page has been designed to
   fit onto an 800x600 screen.  These days, people know about scrollbars.
   (That is not a flippant remark - only a small number of years ago it
   wasn't true.)  Content should not be sacrificed for the sake of
   avoiding scrollbars (but the most important information should go near
   the top).  Flexibility should not be sacrificed for visual appeal.

 o The design as it stands makes it difficult to change.  What if everyone
   decides that there should be a link to the FAQ on the homepage - where
   would you put it?  The design is *so* tight and well-balanced that
   making edits will degrade its appearance.  Not sure how to address that
   one (but IMHO it's a consequence of not having enough space dedicated
   to static content, and striving for a perfect 4x3 800x600 rectangle).

 o I like the logo, and I like the visual look and feel.  Well done!  But
   I agree with others that the two-tone Py/thon is at best unnecessary
   and at worst confusing.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 23:41:28 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 04:41:28 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <a2m4nvgtop27etv0v15ino04ruuv5o0c11@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:58:45 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger"
<vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

>* Use object properties instead of methods.
>
>   I can't yet claim to understand what the author is really
>   proposing.  It has something to do which providing
>   access to an object that responds to iter, getitem, and
>   getslice with reversed indices.

The idea is basically to have a way to get a proxy to a sequence which
behaves like the original sequence, but with indexes reversed. There
is no reason why member functions couldn't return those proxies
instead of using properties, except that when the result is sliced it
looks less ugly.

I have a demo of it for lists only (listing at end of post). It has
three properties...

  backward  : reversed, slicing returns a list
  ibackward : reversed, slicing returns an iterator
  iforward  : forward,  slicing returns an iterator

All properties currently support __getitem__, __setitem__,
__delitem__, __str__, __repr__, __iter__ and __len__ (they all return
an instance of the same proxy class but with different options set).

For simple iterating-over-ints, I'd use the same principles with that
object-acting-as-sliceable-set-of-all-integers idea from the PEP284
thread.


I had some problems getting the slice translation to work - there are
some little nasties with negative steps. You can write...

  x [::-1]

...but trying to make it explicit...

  x [len(x)-1:-1:-1]

...breaks it because of that -ve stop bound. Not being a Numeric user,
slice steps are quite a new thing to me - and that little trap just
caught me by surprise. It isn't too hard to work around it, though.
The code following isn't pretty but so far as I can tell it works.

Python 2.3 is assumed.

The question is - is the exercise worthwhile. I'm not sure even though
it's my own idea. I think it is nice in its way, and a lot more
flexible than the 'iter_backward' method proposal, but that is quite
likely a bad thing as it is probably massive overkill for the problem
being solved - and in particular the extra flexibility has costs.

What the hell, though - it was fun to play with for a bit!

Anyway, here is a quick test session...


>>> from rilist import rilist
>>> x=rilist(range(20))
>>> x.backward
[19, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0]
>>> x.backward[:10]
[19, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10]
>>> x.backward[::2]
[19, 17, 15, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 1]
>>> del x.backward[::2]
>>> x.backward
[18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 0]
>>> x
[0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18]
>>> for i in x.backward :
...   print i
...
18
16
14
12
10
8
6
4
2
0
>>> for i in x.backward [5:]:
...   print i
...
8
6
4
2
0
>>> for i in x [5:]:
...   print i
...
10
12
14
16
18


I've done some 'ibackward' tests as well, and that seems to work - but
I haven't bothered with 'iforward'.


Here is the source - warning, it isn't very self-documenting ATM...


class c_List_Proxy (object) :
  """
  Proxy to list class which supports a subset of methods with
  modified behaviours, mainly...
  
  - Slicing may create an iterator rather than a list.
  - Subscripts and ranges may be reversed.
  """
  
  def __init__ (self, p_List, p_Reverse=False, p_Iter_Slice=False) :
    self.List       = p_List
    self.Reverse    = p_Reverse
    self.Iter_Slice = p_Iter_Slice

  # need some support stuff

  def __SliceIter__ (self, p_Slice) :
    if p_Slice.step > 0 :
      i = p_Slice.start
      while i < p_Slice.stop :
        yield self.List [i]
        i += p_Slice.step
    else :
      i = p_Slice.start
      while i > p_Slice.stop :
        yield self.List [i]
        i += p_Slice.step

  def __FullIter__ (self) :
    i = len (self.List) - 1
    while i >= 0 :
      yield self.List [i]
      i -= 1

  def __KeyTransformed__ (self, p_Key) :
    if self.Reverse :
      if p_Key < 0 :
        return (-1) - p_Key
      
      else :
        return (len (self.List) - 1) - p_Key
    
    else :
      return p_Key

  def __Bound__ (self, p_Given, p_Default) :
    if p_Given is None :
      return p_Default
    elif p_Given < 0 :
      return len (self.List) + p_Given
    else :
      return p_Given

  def __SliceFixed__ (self, p_Slice) :
    l_Step  = p_Slice.step or 1

    if l_Step == 0 :
      raise IndexError, "Step must be non-zero"
      
    elif l_Step > 0 :
      l_Start = self.__Bound__ (p_Slice.start, 0)
      l_Stop  = self.__Bound__ (p_Slice.stop,  len (self.List))

    else :
      l_Start = self.__Bound__ (p_Slice.start, len (self.List) - 1)
      l_Stop  = self.__Bound__ (p_Slice.stop,  -1)
      
    l_Count = (((l_Stop - 1) - l_Start) // l_Step) + 1
    l_Stop  = l_Start + l_Count * l_Step
    
    return slice(l_Start,l_Stop,l_Step)

  def __SliceTransformed__ (self, p_Slice) :
    l_Slice = self.__SliceFixed__ (p_Slice)
    
    if self.Reverse :
      l_End = len(self.List) - 1
      return slice (l_End - l_Slice.start, l_End - l_Slice.stop,
                    -l_Slice.step)
    
    else :
      return p_Slice

  # some members are trivial

  def __len__ (self) :
    return len (self.List)

  def __iter__ (self) :
    return self.__FullIter__ ()

  # some members need a bit more work...

  def __str__ (self) :
    if self.Reverse :
      return str(self.List [::-1])
    else :
      return str(self.List)

  def __repr__ (self) :
    if self.Reverse :
      return repr(self.List [::-1])
    else :
      return repr(self.List)

  def __getitem__ (self, p_Item) :
    if isinstance (p_Item, slice) :
      if self.Iter_Slice :
        return self.__SliceIter__ (self.__SliceTransformed__ (p_Item))

      else :
        l_Slice = self.__SliceTransformed__ (p_Item)
      
        if l_Slice.stop == -1 :  #  annoying special case
          return self.List [l_Slice.start::l_Slice.step]
    
        return self.List [l_Slice.start:l_Slice.stop:l_Slice.step]

    else :
      return self.List [self.__KeyTransformed__ (p_Item)]

  def __setitem__ (self, p_Item, p_Value) :
    if isinstance (p_Item, slice) :
      l_Slice = self.__SliceTransformed__ (p_Item)
      
      if l_Slice.stop == -1 :  #  annoying special case
        self.List [l_Slice.start::l_Slice.step] = p_Value
      else :
        self.List [l_Slice.start:l_Slice.stop:l_Slice.step] = p_Value
    
    else :
      self.List [self.__KeyTransformed__ (p_Item)] = p_Value

  def __delitem__ (self, p_Item) :
    if isinstance (p_Item, slice) :
      l_Slice = self.__SliceTransformed__ (p_Item)
      
      if l_Slice.stop == -1 :  #  annoying special case
        del self.List [l_Slice.start::l_Slice.step]
      else :
        del self.List [l_Slice.start:l_Slice.stop:l_Slice.step]
    
    else :
      del self.List [self.__KeyTransformed__ (p_Item)]

class rilist (list) :
  """
  Extend normal list to provide properties giving variants of normal
  indexing behaviour - specifically...
  
                indexing      slicing returns
                --------      ---------------
  iforward      forward       iterator
  ibackward     backward      iterator
  backward      backward      list
  """
  def __IFwd__ (self) :
    return c_List_Proxy (self, False, True)

  def __IBack__ (self) :
    return c_List_Proxy (self, True, True)

  def __Back__ (self) :
    return c_List_Proxy (self, True, False)

  iforward  = property(__IFwd__ )
  ibackward = property(__IBack__)
  backward  = property(__Back__ )


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 25 12:14:46 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:14:46 +0200
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com> <bkumfg$ifj$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bkuoeb$kbt$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bkuu57$pc6$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bkv1lp$9fk$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkv4c0$o36$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

> BTW: How would you save binary data in an Access database? Access knows
> only Memo fields or am I wrong?

CREATE TABLE Bogus (TheFile BINARY);

might do to create the "Bogus" table with a binary "TheFile" field. 
As of Access 2000, I think the BINARY datatype is not exposed in the table
designer, so you have to type the SQL into the query designer and then
execute the query.

I have never used it, so the above might or might not work.

Peter



From mnations at airmail.net  Thu Sep  4 15:25:29 2003
From: mnations at airmail.net (Marc)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 12:25:29 -0700
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
References: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com> <vle0j01npmca27@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <4378fa6f.0309041125.49b13fc7@posting.google.com>

Excellent. Thanks for the head start.

A couple of questions.

1) If I want to have a moving object, and not just a cursor that
represents the moving object, do I need to continually pack and unpack
the widget that holds the object and redraw it to give it the
appearance of moving? I know sometimes the redrawing can cause
applications to flicker too much, destroying the effect. I don't know
if there's an optimum way to do this.

2) Also, in reading I found an old module called Tkdnd (drag and
drop). It was an experimental module that was supposed to be updated
but never was. Now I can't find any more information on it. Does this
module still exist or work?

Thanks,
Marc



From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Mon Sep  8 18:28:48 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 22:28:48 GMT
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bja8ls$k1j$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-542F88.08165705092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bji5h7$bqo$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hawkfish-921F58.15265908092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

In article <bji5h7$bqo$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
 Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:

> On Friday 05 September 2003 15:17, Richard Wesley wrote:
> 
> > In article <bja8ls$k1j$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
> >  Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Thursday 04 September 2003 20:35, Richard Wesley wrote:
> >> 
> >> > p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
> >> > p.write(sql_commands)
> >> 
> >> p.close()
> > 
> > Yeah, I tried this, but it had no effect.
> > 
> > The odd thing is that the process list cleans up _immediately_ when
> > the
> > script terminates.  Maybe this is some sort of gc problem?
> > 
> 
> What is in sql_commands?  Maybe there is a semicolon missing from the
> end, which might be causing mysql to wait for input.

I doubt it - it is generated by mysqldump.  And there is no problem from 
the command line.

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"I found it at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, in a disused
 lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the leopard.'"
          - Douglas Adams, _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_




From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep  2 18:21:07 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:21:07 -0400
Subject: cli arguments
In-Reply-To: <3f5506d5$0$8546$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>; from eniac@sdf-eu.org on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 09:08:38PM +0000
References: <3f5506d5$0$8546$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20030902182107.A19880@cerberus.liberty>

* Geiregat Jonas (eniac at sdf-eu.org) wrote:
> What is the module called that's made to dael with cli argument's like 
> --foo-bar -c -blabla ?

Try getopt.


Jeremy




From avera at coes.org.pe  Wed Sep 24 22:04:16 2003
From: avera at coes.org.pe (Alberto Vera)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:04:16 -0500
Subject: send email 
Message-ID: <000a01c38309$52daef50$1603a8c0@pc22>

Hello:

Could you tell me How I can send an email using WIN2000? What do I need?

Thanks
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From garry at sage.att.com  Thu Sep 18 11:07:14 2003
From: garry at sage.att.com (Garry Hodgson)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:07:14 GMT
Subject: smtplib question - never mind...
References: <2003091716471063831625@k2.sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <3F69CA22.5FAAEE59@sage.att.com>

Garry Hodgson wrote:
> 
> how do i use smtplib to send mail to someone with "cc" to someone else?
> if i just include the "to" addressees in the call to smtplib.sendmail(), and
> put the others in the "Cc" header fields, only the "To" recipients get the mail,
> thought the mail headers look right.

oops.  please ignore this.  it was just a dumb mistake on my part.

-- 
Garry Hodgson                   Those who would give up essential
liberty
Senior Hacker                   to purchase a little temporary safety
Software Innovation Services    deserve neither liberty nor safety.
AT&T Labs                       
garry at sage.att.com                 - Benjamin Franklin, 1775



From gst at sysfrog.org  Sun Sep 14 13:09:31 2003
From: gst at sysfrog.org (Guenther Starnberger)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:09:31 +0200
Subject: Sending SMS...
References: <7b454334.0309131130.59cf64fa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1063558054.822575@newsmaster-03.atnet.at>

Fazer wrote:

hello,

> Can anyone point me to a way on how to send a SMS message using Python?

an alternative to the already suggested SMS-webgateway would be to use the
ICQ-SMS-gateway ('worldwide' SMSs, no advertisements).

either use libicq2000[1] directly (but afaik there are no python bindings
yet), or setup a local jabber[2] server with an aim-transport[3] to which
you can connect with python by using jabberpy[4].

cu
/gst

[1] http://libicq2000.sf.net/
[2] http://www.jabber.org/about/overview.html
[3] http://aim-transport.jabberstudio.org/
[4] http://jabberpy.sourceforge.net/




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Sep  6 17:07:32 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 23:07:32 +0200
Subject: Need help on UNICODE conversion
References: <5lbklvgtlm6l4e1n51tnbin151drrh4410@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3he3p8w2z.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Bernd Preusing <b.preusing at web.de> writes:

> After reading in the string with s=file.read(70) from file offest 4
> I get a string which is shown as
> 'UNICODE\\0x00\\ox00K\\0x00o' and so forth in the debugger
> (using Komodo).

Can you find out what the real value of that string is? I very much
doubt that it contains literal backslashes. Also, I find it strange
that it has the letter 'o' after one backslash, but the number '0'
after all other bacskslashes.

Regards,
Martin



From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 20:05:32 2003
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 17:05:32 -0700
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
References: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0309281605.1410d9ba@posting.google.com>

Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message news:<j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0 at 4ax.com>...
> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
> looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
> methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.
> 
> I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
> it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.
> 
> This is something I got use to in Smalltalk and have found it quite
> useful when working on several methods that work closely together.
> 
> Daniel Klein

If you mean screen splitting, Active Python does this because it has
all the features of VisualStudio built in. As does Visual Slickedit
and many others.



From wizard518 at aol.com  Mon Sep 22 18:39:00 2003
From: wizard518 at aol.com (Paul)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 15:39:00 -0700
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <3F6F12A1.3010702@bu.edu> <mailman.1064246454.19668.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e7b9822.0309221439.6dea760e@posting.google.com>

However, what if you don't want case sensitivity?  For example, to
check if a file is a jpg, I do name[-3:].lower() == 'jpg'.  This will
work with both foo.jpg and foo.JPG.

Is this slower than name.lower().endswith('jpg')?  Is there a better
solution altogether?

Paul


Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064246454.19668.python-list at python.org>...
> At 09:17 AM 9/22/2003, Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >I have a question about the comparison of efficiency of string slicing and 
> >using string.startswith.
> >For example, which one of the following would be more efficient, or , 
> >moreover, more pythonic?
> >
> >if aa[:3] == 'abc':
> >
> >vs
> >
> >if aa.startswith('abc'):
> 
> Here's one way to address this kind of question:
> 
>  >>> import time
>  >>> def f():
> ...     st = time.time()
> ...     for i in range(500000):
> ...         if aa.startswith('abc'):pass
> ...     print time.time() - st
> ...
>  >>> f()
>  1.01200008392
>  >>> def f():
> ...     st = time.time()
> ...     for i in range(500000):
> ...         if aa[:3] == 'abc':pass
> ...     print time.time() - st
> ...
>  >>> f()
> 1.01100003719
> 
> Bob Gailer
> bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
> 303 442 2625
> 
> --



From dario at fga-software.com  Fri Sep  5 06:11:49 2003
From: dario at fga-software.com (ProgDario)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 03:11:49 -0700
Subject: Creating a PyFunction
Message-ID: <67a857cc.0309050211.add7137@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I have a simple question I can't find on the FAQ.

I want to instantiate a PyFunction from a Java class, but the function
is on a jython file (script1.py).

How can I get a PyFunction object referencing the function in the
external file?

Then, how can I call the function (__exec__ method ?) passing in an
argument?

Thanks in advance

Dario



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 00:19:59 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 00:19:59 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F5891C8.A7DD1A20@hotmail.com> <bjcspl$6l4$1@panix1.panix.com> <bjdp74$nr2$2@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <bjeblf$h3n$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <bjdp74$nr2$2 at wheel2.two14.net>,
Martin Maney  <maney at pobox.com> wrote:
>Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>
>> McMaster Bujold (start with _Shards of Honor_, but don't read _Barrayar_
>> yet if you pick up the _Cordelia's Honor_ omnibus).
>
>Are you advising the traditional publication order or reading here?  I
>did that the first time; last year I went through them again in
>internal chronology sequence, and damned if I don't think they work
>just perfectly well that way.  I suspect Baen, and presumably Lois,
>would agree, as that seems to be the way they're packaging the omnibus
>reissues, at least mostly.

I'm absolutely recommending pub order.  It's not critical the way it is
with Brust, and I certainly agree that re-reading Bujold in chron order
works quite nicely, but there are certain bits that work better if you
read in publication order.

>> Social SF: anything by Ursual K. LeGuin, _Courtship Rite_ by Donald
>> Kingsbury
>
>I stumbled across Kingsbury's _Psychohistorical Crisis_ at a bargin book
>outlet early this year, and thought it was absolutely stunning.  I have
>to keep telling myself it's too soon to reread it, yet.  A couple
>months ago I had to dig out CR as a surrogate.  I hadn't read it in
>donkey's years, and I'm happy to say that I found it had aged very
>well.
>
>No, Martin, it is still TOO SOON!  <rumble rumble ...>

Yeah, I'd never gotten around to reading _Courtship Rite_, and my cousin
gave me _Psychohistorical Crisis_ to read while I was in Vegas.  Anyone
who liked Asimov's _Foundation_ trilogy *has* to read _Psychohistorical
Crisis_.

I'm not sure how well it'll stand up to re-reading, though.

>(this group/list is dangerous.  just a few hours ago I was looking
>forward to finishing _Death in a Tenured Position_; now it's looking
>more like a obstacle that wants overcoming.  sheesh!  maybe i can find
>some nice python programming project to distract me...)

<smirk>
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Sep 16 12:44:57 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:44:57 +0200
Subject: Duck Typing
In-Reply-To: <3F6732DB.F31A954E@engcorp.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063720351.23661.python-list@python.org> <3gG9b.12137$3Y2.2543@news2.central.cox.net> <3F6732DB.F31A954E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3f673e09$0$58713$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>>exquacktly [ducks and runs]
> 
>               ^^^^^
> 
> Steve, did you even _know_ you did this?  You're sick!
> 
> -Peter  :-)

people are currently turning their heads to me to see why I
suddenly bursted out in laughter :-)

--Irmen




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep 11 02:13:24 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 08:13:24 +0200
Subject: Pickling/unpickling extensions types
References: <mailman.1063244236.18847.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3n0dbvomz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Bob <tenorman3 at yahoo.com> writes:

> In particular, what does this
> 
> "A callable object, which in the unpickling
> environment must be either a class, a callable
> registered as a ``safe constructor'' (see below), or
> it must have an attribute __safe_for_unpickling__ with
> a true value. Otherwise, an UnpicklingError will be
> raised in the unpickling environment. Note that as
> usual, the callable itself is pickled by name" 
> 
> mean?

What part of it is it that you don't understand? A "callable object"
is one that you can call. E.g. X is callable, if X(some_arguments)
"works":

>>> 1()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
>>> id(id)
1076510860

So the builtin id is callable, the number 1 is not. Examples for
callable objects are functions, bound methods, classes, and objects
whose classes implement __call__.

For "safe constructors", see below in the text.

"Have an attribute" means that getattr works. An object X has an
attribute y if X.y "works".

Regards,
Martin



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Sep 26 16:19:07 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:19:07 +0200
Subject: Group4 Tiff Images
References: <mqm8nvsetc3vtddlt05p24jn6bevbnuvuh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bl26vu$4ft$1@sea.gmane.org>

Doug Tolton wrote:

> Does PIL still not have a Group4 Tiff decoder available?

nope.  here's a patch:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2003-July/002354.html

</F>







From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Sep  5 11:54:10 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:54:10 +0100
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bj8f4v$8kl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <87brtzu5ak.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
Message-ID: <bjabc7$mbm$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

Martin,
           Computer Science at Aalborg I see.  A Bayes net man perchance?  I
hope Uffe, Kristian et al are well. :-)

Duncan





From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Fri Sep  5 12:42:47 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:42:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Coding Style:  Defining Functions within Methods?
References: <70df36e9.0309050837.1660cdf4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjaee7$ac4$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Generally I also find it cleanest to push functions down into the most
nested scope possible; it makes it clear that these are helper
functions and not meant to be called externally.

Harry Pehkonen <harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com> wrote:
> I have been defining new class methods when I'm trying to simplify
> some code.  But I'm thinking I should just define functions within
> that method because they aren't useful from the outside anyway. 
> Example:


> Before:

> class Mess(object):
>     def complicated(self, count):
>         for i in count:
>             self.do_loop(i)
>     def do_loop(self, i):
>         ...whatever...


> After:

> class Cleaner(object):
>     def complicated(self, count):
>         def do_loop(i)
>             ...whatever...
>         for i in count:
>             do_loop(i)

> The point is that do_loop is now not ``contaminating'' things.  I
> suppose do_loop could be __do_loop, but it would still show up in
> places where I don't think it should (such as dir(Mess)).

> Thoughts?

> Thanks!
> Harry.



From jfranz at neurokodeXREMOVEX.com  Sun Sep 21 23:30:27 2003
From: jfranz at neurokodeXREMOVEX.com (Jon Franz_antispam)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:30:27 -0400
Subject: Cincinnati PUG
Message-ID: <008b01c380ba$9568eda0$7401a8c0@voidmk9>

Hello,
 I'm looking to start a Python Users Group in Cincinnati Ohio, possibly
sponsored by my company.

If you're a python user or developer in greater Cincinnati area and would be interested,
drop me a line.

~Jon Franz
NeuroKode Labs, LLC
- Makers of PDO (http://pdo.neurokode.com) -
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From bokr at oz.net  Tue Sep  9 20:14:13 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 00:14:13 GMT
Subject: Disagree with proposed 2.4 behavior for %x formatting of signed  i nts
References: <mailman.1063053673.4793.python-list@python.org> <47sqlvo64vf5tk93qmmo2fi9pvt5ijbno2@4ax.com> <bjl53p$j22$07$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bjlqcl$m4g$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:11:09 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

>Tim Roberts wrote:
>
>> You do not understand correctly.  This is what will happen:
>> 
>> 
>>>>>print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
>> 
>> 0x-3E0D38FD
>
>Actually, what *will* happen is
>
>-0x3E0D38FD
>
Really? In that case, would

     print "@#%08X" % -1041053949

produce

 -@#3E0D38FD

??
>
>Indeed. You can still do all binary manipulations that you want to do.
>
But reasonably?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Sep 17 10:11:05 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:11:05 +0200
Subject: [Python] gdmodule true type font size
References: <m2r82ky473.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>	<000b01c37a7c$b31d96a0$1f00000a@Belkin> <mailman.1063635145.4169.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bk9pjo$efu$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>"Chris" == Chris Gonnerman <chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> writes:
>>>>>
> 
>     Chris> No.  The underlying GD library assumes 1 point is exactly 1
>     Chris> pixel.  Font metrics are pretty fuzzy, so your mileage may
>     Chris> vary slightly especially with script fonts.
> 
> That helps thanks ...
> 
>     Chris> You've got me here.  Perhaps if I knew what you were trying
>     Chris> to accomplish at a bit higher level, I might be able to
>     Chris> make a suggestion.
> 
> That's OK, I think I have this figured out.  The one point/one pixel
> info was enough to speed me on my way.

I just found a mail I sent a few time ago to Thomas Boutell, who created the gd 
library, and it seems there is a constant named GD_RESOLUTION in file gd.h that 
may help you to solve your problem (if you haven't already solved it). In former 
versions of gd, this constant was set by default to 96, which means that a pixel 
was not 1/72 inch, but 1/96 inch. Since font size units are supposed to be 
printer points (= 1/72 inch), setting a font size 12 in gd results in an actual 
size 12 * 96 / 72 = 16 pixels, and not 12 as you would expect.

This problem happened in gd 1.8, and I haven't tried the new version. If it 
wasn't corrected, changing this constant to 72 may help to get the size you want.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From petejereb at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 20 10:24:01 2003
From: petejereb at yahoo.com (Pete Jereb)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 07:24:01 -0700
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
References: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com> <1ncwxni2hwzl5.2lpkd6rdz989$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <681f9321.0309200624.5f082adb@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all for the clarification.  I was under the impression that
lstrip would remove a string I specified, not any character in the
string until a character is no longer found.  I like the

s.lstrip('chg').lstrip

solution.

This is my first Python program, and between the messages on this
group and "Python in a Nutshell" I've been able to solve all the
problems I've encountered thus far.  Hopefully I'll be able to
contribute to this group in a little bit!  Pete.



From kalike2003 at netscape.net  Thu Sep 25 13:06:40 2003
From: kalike2003 at netscape.net (Kali K E)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 10:06:40 -0700
Subject: Getting the Directory/Path details
Message-ID: <ab5a234a.0309250906.44b42beb@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I could not understand how I can do the following things in Python.
Please help me.

1. First I have to find the current directory from where the script is
invoked.
2. Next I have to form a directory structure there. If the current
directory in step 1 is /home/mylogin, then from there I have to build
a directory structure like
/home/mylogin/result
/home/mylogin/tmp/
/home/mylogin/.....

There are three things as I look at it. First determing the current
directory path. Second adding a string to it like /result etc. Third
creating the new directory.
Thank you for the help.

Kali



From markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de  Fri Sep 19 09:20:57 2003
From: markus.vonehr at ipm.fhg.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:20:57 +0200
Subject: Pmw menubutton enable/disable
Message-ID: <bkf001$stj$1@news.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hi,

is it possible to enable/disable a menubutton?

My code is like this:

menuBar = Pmw.MenuBar(root, hull_relief = 'ridge', hull_borderwidth = 1)

menuBar.pack(side=TOP, fill = 'x')
menuBar.addmenu('Help', 'help')
menuBar.addmenuitem('Help', 'command', 'Help About', command = 
self.About, label = 'About', state=DISABLED)



now my menubutton is disabled.
Anyone knows how to enable it?

Thanks,

Markus




From nomail at nomail.com  Wed Sep 10 10:22:11 2003
From: nomail at nomail.com (Michael Schmitt)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:22:11 +0200
Subject: Reportlab Image object opens filehandles
Message-ID: <bjnc2k$2p1bh$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Hello.

I am trying to build a pdf document using:
---
from reportlab.platypus.flowables import Image
lst = []
for filename in imageFiles:
    I= Image(filename, width= 300, height= 300)
    lst.append(I)
---
Creating an Image object seems to open a filehandle, so if the size of 
imageFiles increases, I get "IOError: [Errno 24] Too many open files" on a 
Solaris machine, where the number of simultaneously opened filehandles 
seems to be limited to roughly 255.

Is there a way to produce a pdf document with a large number of images 
without running into the problem of too many open filehandles?

Thanks for any hints.
Michael





From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 11:10:30 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:10:30 GMT
Subject: Saving Numeric arrays to file?
References: <bl2ktf$8lq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <bl2ov9$78mdr$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de> <bl43pu$216$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <GLhdb.178998$R32.5726980@news2.tin.it>

Duncan Smith wrote:
   ...
> What I
> *would* like is a reasonably generic (and not terribly inefficient)
> solution for
> storing strings that contain escape characters in text files.  Cheers.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "contain escape characters" in this
context.  But maybe the quoted-printable coding is what you're looking
for?  See module quopri in the standard Python library.


Alex




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 19:28:44 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:28:44 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <mailman.1064341934.21653.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-CA53C5.12265623092003@news.service.uci.edu> <Gn1cb.2779$gi2.756@fed1read01> <so81nvsosmukkds1ne3fbbocjliu3tbjaa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6kk1nvk96cuvcpbs1nmu13epkah46f8tco@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:03:04 +0100, Stephen Horne
<$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:43:34 -0700, Tim Hochberg
><tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote:
>
>>I know someone's going to suggest that, since I'm already using slices, 
>>I should be in favor of int[a:b:c] or similar. But, that doesn't work 
>>any better than range with reversed ranges since you still have to use 
>>two slices to make things clear. That is, to get the equivalent of 
>>``range(n-1,-1,-1)`` one would need to use ``int[n-1:-1:-1]``, which is 
>>no clearer, or ``int[:n][::-1]`` which doesn't seem like a particular 
>>win over ``range(n)[::-1]``, which you can do now.

...

>Running with this idea, how about...
>
>  for i in int.backward [:n] :
>    ...

...

>Anyway, I really don't think this 'backward' property should be part
>of the standard int type - I'm rapidly getting more into the idea of
>taking Seans prototype from here...
>
>Message-ID: <lWYbb.4739$yD1.697869 at news20.bellglobal.com>
>
>removing the inheritance from int (which is probably redundant) and
>making it purely into a library object or recipe. It may be time for
>me to properly figure out metatypes ;-)

Well, I read up on metatypes (a bit of an anticlimax there - two pages
of Python in a Nutshell seemed to cover it) but then of course I
realised that if I'm not making a subtype of int I don't need
metatypes. So here we have noddy implementation 1, which I have saved
as "islice.py"...

#################################################################
#
#  Library allowing slicing into the 'set of integers'.
#
#  The only identifier intended for export is 'xint'.
#
#  Slicing of xint results in an equivalent xrange object. The slicing
#  is handled as follows...
#    start : defaults to zero
#    stop  : if undefined, raise IndexError
#    step  : defaults to one
#
#  Additionally, the read-only property "backward" returns a similar
#  object, also used primarily for slicing. When sliced, it behaves
#  exactly as 'xint' *except* that the items in the slice are iterated
#  in reverse order.
#
#  Note - negative start and stop values do not have any special
#  meaning (-1 is not equivalent to the highest integer, for instance)
#  because slices including -ve values may be useful in their own
#  right.
#
#  Example...
#
#    from islice import xint
#
#    for i in xint [:5] :
#      print i, " * 10 is ", i*10
#
#    for i in xint.backward [:5] :
#      print i, " * 10 is ", i*10
#
#  Expected results...
#
#    0 * 10 is 0
#    1 * 10 is 10
#    2 * 10 is 20
#    3 * 10 is 30
#    4 * 10 is 40
#    4 * 10 is 40
#    3 * 10 is 30
#    2 * 10 is 20
#    1 * 10 is 10
#    0 * 10 is 0
#

class Backward (object) :
  """
  This class handles reverse-order slicing into the set of integers.
  It gives exactly the same slice as AllInts (which is not the same as
  simply reversing start and stop and negating step) but iterates the
  items in reverse order.
  
  An instance of this class is returned as the result of evaluating
  the xint.backward property.
  """

  def __getitem__ (self, p) :
    if isinstance (p, slice) :
      start = p.start or 0
      stop  = p.stop
      step  = p.step  or 1
    
      if stop  is None :
        raise IndexError, "Slice stop cannot be defaulted"

      if step  == 0 :
        raise IndexError, "Slice step cannot be zero"

      count = ((stop - 1) - start) // step
      
      stop   = start + count * step
      start -= step

      return xrange (stop, start, -step)

    else :
      raise IndexError, "Non-slice subscripting is not supported"


class AllInts (object) :
  """
  This class handles forward-order slicing into the set of integers,
  and provides the property "backward" which gives an object that can
  be used for reverse-order slicing.
  
  The slice returned is actually an xrange object which iterates the
  correct values in the correct order.
  
  This class should not normally be instantiated by users - there is
  an instance called 'xint' which should be used instead.
  """
  
  def __getitem__ (self, p) :
    if isinstance (p, slice) :
      if p.stop  is None :
        raise IndexError, "Slice stop cannot be defaulted"

      if p.step  == 0 :
        raise IndexError, "Slice step cannot be zero"

      return xrange (p.start or 0, p.stop, p.step or 1)

    else :
      raise IndexError, "Non-slice subscripting is not supported"

  def getBackward (self) :
    return Backward ()
    
  backward = property(getBackward)


xint = AllInts ()

#################################################################



And some quick tests...

Python 2.3c1 (#44, Jul 18 2003, 14:32:36) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from islice import xint
>>> list(xint[:10])
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
>>> list(xint.backward[:10])
[9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0]
>>> list(xint.backward[:10:3])
[9, 6, 3, 0]
>>> list(xint.backward[:10:2])
[8, 6, 4, 2, 0]
>>> list(xint.backward[:10:7])
[7, 0]
>>> list(xint.backward[:10:-7])
[]
>>> list(xint.backward[:-10:-7])
[-7, 0]
>>> list(xint[:-10:-7])
[0, -7]


I'm not entirely happy with the names, and maybe a C extension module
might be more efficient, but in principle I'm quite happy with this.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Tue Sep 16 15:00:45 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:00:45 +0400
Subject: None, False, True
In-Reply-To: <bk7lq1$qicfh$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bk7lq1$qicfh$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bk7mkg$4s$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Indigo Moon Man wrote:

> M-a-S <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> spake thusly:
> 
>>Can anybody explain this:
>>
>>Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
>>win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
>>information.
>>
>>>>>None = 3
>>
>><stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
>>
>>>>>False = 4
>>>>>True = 5
>>>>>
>>>>>None, False, True
>>
>>(3, 4, 5)
> 
> 
> http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/chap05.htm
> 
> In section 5.9 (Glossary) near the bottom of the link above I found this
> entry for None...
> 
> None
> A special Python value returned by functions that have no
> return statement, or a return statement without an argument.
> 
> Maybe that has something to do with it.
> 

Defenitely. If I remember it right, None is going to be promoted into 
keywords soon. Therefore the warning.

hth,
anton.




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep 30 11:33:35 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:33:35 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <1064936015.3f79a24f24ebc@mcherm.com>

Prabu writes:
> I'm new to python, so excuse me if i'm asking something dumb. 

Hey, everyone had to start someplace, we try hard to be nice
to newbies here. You can also check out the beginners list
(http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor), where they
SPECIALIZE in being clear to newbies.

> Does python provide a mechanism to implement virtual functions?

Yes. If by "virtual function" you mean what is meant in C++, then
*all* functions in Python are virtual.

> Can you please give a code snippet also...:)

Of course!

  G:\>python
  Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  >>> class Animal(object):
  ...    def speak(self):
  ...        pass
  ...
  >>> class Dog(Animal):
  ...     def speak(self):
  ...         print 'Woof'
  ...
  >>> class Cat(Animal):
  ...     def speak(self):
  ...         print 'Miow'
  ...
  >>> class Giraffe(Animal):
  ...     pass
  ...
  >>> dog = Dog()
  >>> cat = Cat()
  >>> giraffe = Giraffe()
  >>> dog.speak()
  Woof
  >>> cat.speak()
  Miow
  >>> giraffe.speak()

Notice how I overrode the "virtual" method speak() in Dog and Cat
and just for a change I left the parent method in place for Giraffe.

Does that answer your question?

-- Michael Chermside





From llafba at gmx.net  Fri Sep 12 10:26:01 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:26:01 +0200
Subject: read from file
Message-ID: <bjsl8j$qg2$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi folks,

I need to read information from a file. That is not the problem, BUT 
another programm (I have no control about that programm) constantly 
writes more information into that specific file. How can I get the new 
information that has bee added to that file and that I have not yet 
read? I don't want to re-read the entire file, because that is a whole 
lot of data!!

I wrote a little software that is analysing the data that is written 
into the file. That's why I would only like to get the new data.

Any help would be deeply appreciated.

Thanks Tom

P.S.: Another question would be: Is there a way to find the file that 
was last edited?




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep 29 14:14:40 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:14:40 +0200
Subject: OT: John Cleese and the Monty Python book
In-Reply-To: <65hgnvkrh84v4bbmijqdivbih54e74metn@4ax.com>
References: <65hgnvkrh84v4bbmijqdivbih54e74metn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030929181440.GA8032@nl.linux.org>

John Hall wrote:
> I just read this in The Independent (Brit newspaper).
> What John Cleese is doing now, and chat about the people of Monty
> Python's Flying Circus.
> I know that Guido is a fan - perhaps other Pythonistas are also.

De Volkskrant also had an article about it last Friday.
Many Pythonista's speak Dutch ;)

Gerrit.

-- 
280. If while in a foreign country a man buy a male or female slave
belonging to another of his own country; if when he return home the owner
of the male or female slave recognize it: if the male or female slave be a
native of the country, he shall give them back without any money.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From max at theslimmers.net  Tue Sep  9 20:47:29 2003
From: max at theslimmers.net (max)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 17:47:29 -0700
Subject: win32 ReplyMessage missing
Message-ID: <4f55e45a.0309091647.60813eb8@posting.google.com>

I can't seem to find a win32 api ReplyMessage. Does it exist, or is
there another way to reply to a SendMessage.

Also am trying to figure out how to create a PyCCmdTarget Object.  I
did find CreateWnd, it would help if there were better referances from
the related functions in the doc.

much thanks

max



From no at spam.invalid  Thu Sep 11 16:27:58 2003
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:27:58 -0700
Subject: tkinter, sockets and threads together
References: <79ad5955.0309111133.5f6bf26f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjqlsf$17j0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <79ad5955.0309111133.5f6bf26f at posting.google.com>,
 juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com (Julia Goolia) wrote:

>hello,
>
>i read that it is bad to use threads with tkinter.  so my question is
>how does one create a gui program with sockets?  at one point you have
>to call mainloop() which does not return.  then you are not free to do
>stuff with the sockets.
>
>what's up with that?

For reading from a socket you can use file events. See Tkinter Summary 
at my site <http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/> for the basics.

To avoid blocking while writing (i.e.queue up the output data and write 
it as the network permits), I ended up using threads. There are probably 
other options.

The package "RO Util", available at th web site mentioned above includes 
a simple class RO.Comm.TkSocket that handles input and output nicely, 
while hiding the details of file events and the writing thread.

You could also use the Twisted Framework. It is reportedly well done and 
integrate nicely with Tkinter and other frameworks. I can't speak from 
personal experience as I've not yet tried it.

-- Russell



From jordan at krushen.com  Sat Sep 13 15:00:17 2003
From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:00:17 -0700
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
In-Reply-To: <16227.12450.504046.510291@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com>
 <2E78b.1002$8g2.829@news1.central.cox.net>
 <E5WcnXLOoPRMiPyiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
 <VV88b.1024$8g2.587@news1.central.cox.net> <oprvc7dcpg5ctagx@shawnews>
 <16227.12450.504046.510291@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <oprvgcerlo5ctagx@shawmail>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:58:42 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> >> I will note, however, that Flash's XML parser is slow, and WDDX is
> >> more compact than XML-RPC (although it isn't, in itself, an RPC
> >> protocol, unlike XML-RPC).
>
> Jordan> God, is it ever slow.  I'm working on a remote playlist editor
> Jordan> (Flash talking to Python XML-RPC), and when sending a list of
> Jordan> ~1000 entities across the wire, performance was increased nearly
> Jordan> a hundred times simply by sending one delimited string element
> Jordan> instead of 1000 XML elements.  Of course, XML adds quite a bit
> Jordan> of bloat, but all the time was consumed in CPU, not on the wire.

> Have you tried installing sgmlop, which pushes most of the XML parsing 
> into C?

It's the Flash side that's slow, not the Python one :)  Python merrily 
spits out an array of 1000 small items into XML-RPC in way under a 
second.  Unmarshalling it on the other end in Flash took noticeably 
longer.  I've taken to stripping the Flash XML-RPC library down to its 
minimum, but it's still rather slow.  The Python lib is more complete, and 
written in Python, but it's still quite a bit faster than Flash.

J.




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 14:34:32 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:34:32 -0500
Subject: pprint and ">>>"
In-Reply-To: <3F71D2A9.5050205@bu.edu>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org>
        <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
        <3F71D2A9.5050205@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <16241.58296.811774.100392@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Shu-Hsien> Sometimes, it is find of nice using: print >> my_file_object,
    Shu-Hsien> my_variabels than using the standard f.write.  However, it
    Shu-Hsien> cannot be done with pprint.pprint.

Actually, yes you can.  Pprint.pprint() takes an optional second argument
which specifies the stream to write to.  It defaults to sys.stdout.

Skip




From adama at mac.com  Fri Sep  5 13:21:35 2003
From: adama at mac.com (Adam Attarian)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 10:21:35 -0700
Subject: import site failed; mac os x & fink; help
Message-ID: <26470cd4.0309050921.7d644415@posting.google.com>

Hey Guys-

I searched the group for import site failure and got a few hits, but
nothing I could really get from all of them, different platforms,
setups, etc. So I'm going to go ahead and ask the group for help..

I'm on Mac OS X, version 10.2.6, running a build of python 2.3 that
was installed by fink. So far, I can use everything fine, but I get
the "import site failed..." when I run the binary:
<tt>
[localhost:~] adam% python
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Python 2.3b1 (#1, Aug 29 2003, 18:48:50) 
[GCC 3.1 20020420 (prerelease)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>
</tt>

Any ideas how I can fix this beast? I'm trying to install pyGTK, but
that's another story.

Thanks for the help, it's appreciated.

Adam Attarian
adama at mac dot tld=com



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Sep 18 01:32:30 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:32:30 GMT
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <Orbab.9372$hl4.6091@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[hokieghal99]
> a="192."
> b="168."
> c="1."
> r = range(256)
> for r in r:

This rebinding of r is an amazing non-error.
I had to read it twice before I believed that it worked.
Working or not, don't do this.  Changing the meaning
of variable like this drives some people off the edge
and they end up working in pure functional languages
and never recover.

> print a + b + c + r

As the others pointed out, str(r) will do the trick.


Raymond Hettinger





From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Sep 24 15:37:23 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:37:23 GMT
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <3f71ad83_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <Tnmcb.2151$RW4.8@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Tina Li:
> Yes, I've shortened the XML snippet considerably as
> the data was obscurely long ...

But since there wasn't a problem with the code you posted
it's hard to figure out what's wrong.  (And since it wasn't
in XML it made it even harder for people to help.)

If it's too long (and a threaded alignment which includes the
full PDB structure is too long), put it on a web site somewhere
and give a URL to it.

> Andrew: Thanks for the XML code. I've written up something
> similar using xml.parsers.expat, but it's conceivably slower
> than regexp.

Conceivable, yes.  But 1) did you test it, and 2) would it make a
difference?

> And thanks for suggesting biopython.org. But I need to have it up
> quick so maybe cobbling something
> together myself is faster than reading through their documentation.

Not only that, but I don't know of anything in biopython for
handling that code.  It's a generic XML parsing question, so a
generic tool is the best, like Fredrick's ElementTree.

Here's a question for you.  When is it easier to read the
documentation for existing code (which has been tested)
then it is to write and debug your own code?



You can write the regex in a way that's easier to read

pattern = re.compile (
   r'<pdbcode>(?P<pdbcode>.*?)</pdbcode>.*?'
   r'<targetSeq name="(?P<targetName>.*?)">.*?'
   r'<target>(?P<target>.*?)</target>.*?'
   r'<align>(?P<align>.*?)</align>.*?'
   r'<template>(?P<template> .*?)</template>.*?'
   r'<pdbBackbone>(?P<pdbBackbone>.*?)</pdbBackbone>.*?'
   r'<queryGaps>(?P<queryGaps>.*?)</queryGaps>.*?'
   r'<templateGaps>(?P<templateGaps>.*?)</templateGaps>',
                                   re.S)

You can also make the pattern a bit less ambiguous,
eg, use [^>]* instead of .*? when you are inside an element,
which turns

   r'<pdbcode>(?P<pdbcode>.*?)</pdbcode>.*?'

into

   r'<pdbcode>(?P<pdbcode>[^<]*)</pdbcode>.*?'

(and use [^"]* instead of .*? for getting the text of an
attribute.)

You can get rid of the other ambiguity (skipping characters
until the start of the next tag) by using something like

  ([^<]|<(?!queryGaps))*<queryGaps

instead of

  .*?<queryGaps

And you can get rid of all ambiguities by having your
pattern match the text completely, that is, capturing all
fields even if ignore a few.  In that way you don't have to
write code which skips over tags.  That's easily done
with code which generated your pattern, as in

def match_tag(tagname, groupname):
  return "<%s>(?P<%s>[^<]*)</%s>" % (tagname, groupname)

pattern = "[^<]*".join(match_tag("pdbcode", "pdbcode"), ...)

You'll need to extend it to support matching fields with
attributes.

In any case, what you have won't support XML like

<pdbcode   >2PLV</pdbcode>

(I put extra spaces in the open tag.)

Instead, you are writing parsing code for the specific XML
subset your threading code produces, which may change in
the future.  That's why you should use an XML parser.

And if you want to support only this specific format, it's
still easier to write a traditional line-oriented parser.

def readcheck(infile, start):
  line = infile.readline()
  assert line.startswith(start)
  return line

def simpletag(line, convert = str):
  i = line.find(">")
  j = line.find("<", i)
  return convert(line[i:j])

infile = open("threading.xml")

line = readcheck(infile, "<threading")
_, name, _, source, _, template, _ = line.split('"')

line = readcheck(infile, "<pdbcode")
pdbcode = simpletag(line)
pdbchain = simpletag(readcheck(infile, "<pdbchain"))
templateName = simpletag(readcheck(infile, "<templateName"))

# don't save the settings
while 1:
  line = infile.readline()
  assert line
  if line.startswith("</settings>"):
    break

...

This may be clumsier or more tedious, but it's easy to understand
and the ways it fails are much easier to diagnose than regexps.

That said, I like parsing with regexps.  But this isn't the right
place to use them.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From twic at urchin.earth.li  Thu Sep 25 14:52:03 2003
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:52:03 +0100
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
In-Reply-To: <1NFcb.62896$gV.2762@news2.central.cox.net>
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <1NFcb.62896$gV.2762@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309251950570.11383-100000@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Steve Holden wrote:

> "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote ...
> > Please comment on the new PEP for reverse iteration methods.
>
> Looks good. But
>
> [...]
> >    It crashes when applied to an infinite iterator.
> [...]
> Hmm. My little brain is having difficulty imagining anything that won't.
> What am I missing?

ideally, riter(riter(someInfiniteIterator)) would work, though!

tom

-- 
I see large and small words on this page, arranged in long rows separated by little dotty characters. Suspect written by little dotty characters, too. -- RonJeffries




From mk at net.mail.penguinista  Mon Sep  1 10:44:00 2003
From: mk at net.mail.penguinista (=?UTF-8?B?0LTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCzLg==?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:44:00 +0200
Subject: access to glibc-2.3 threaded locale API 
Message-ID: <3f535b30@news.mt.net.mk>

Glibc-2.3 has a new thread-aware locale model (explained here:
http://people.redhat.com/drepper/tllocale.ps.gz).

This feature is great in applications such as Zope and Apache/mod_python
were different users could access the same application but with different
locale settings...

Is there Python support for this feature?





-- 
??????                                  (jabberID:damjan at bagra.net.mk)

              The best things in life are free, but the
                expensive ones are still worth a look.



From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Mon Sep 29 22:29:18 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:29:18 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <21064255.0309291225.259555ec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m31xtzrou9.fsf@ieee.org>

PeterAbel at gmx.net (Peter Abel) writes:

> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-process.html says
> ...
> ...
> ...
> spawnl(mode, path, ...) 
> spawnle(mode, path, ..., env) 
> spawnlp(mode, file, ...) 
> spawnlpe(mode, file, ..., env) 
> spawnv(mode, path, args) 
> spawnve(mode, path, args, env) 
> spawnvp(mode, file, args) 
> spawnvpe(mode, file, args, env) 
> ...
> ...
> ...
> Availability: Unix, Windows. spawnlp(), spawnlpe(), spawnvp() and
> spawnvpe() are not available on Windows. New in version 1.6.

So I should be safe since I'm using spawnv (and not spawnvp or
spawnvpe). :-)


Thanks anyway.


See you, 
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 07:07:13 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 13:07:13 +0200
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com> <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli9pochlcoc8e@news.supernews.com> <bjbb57$bb2$0@216.39.172.122> <vliectetv25iab@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bjcf62$3ka$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com>

> You could still give them different names. The proposal is to eliminate
> the need to specify "self" in the method header, not in the code in the
> method body. That's a different issue, and I don't know of any language
> that manages to do it consistently.

You'll run into all the problems known from the Pascal with-statement. And
that's not only a readability matter.

Kindly
Michael P





From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Sep 20 01:38:57 2003
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:38:57 -0700
Subject: Python ISPs
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0309181224.374a5bef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1064036337.14086.29.camel@devilbox.homelinux.net>

On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 13:24, Paradox wrote:
> Does anyone know of some ISPs that have Mod_Python installed. Most
> seem to allow Python CGI but not things like Mod_Python or Spyce. Is
> this a viable solution or should I just learn PHP. I would prefer to
> leverage my Python knowledge but I also would like a fast robust
> solution.

Interestingly enough, I just started a new job at
http://www.commandprompt.com and I convinced my boss yesterday that
Python-friendly hosting would be a good thing.  If you're interested you
can email me offlist.  We're pretty open to most things, including
third-party modules, specific Python version installs and the like. 
There's only a few things my boss won't bend on (No Windows [Linux  
only], no MySQL [PostgreSQL only], no gaping security holes).  Other
than that, we're open to most other things.

We should have an announcement by Monday on c.l.py.announce with more
specific information.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Heads on fire and drunken lights
Days devoured by hungry nights
                           -Coil





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 10 17:41:32 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:41:32 -0400
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F8742.C1C66903@engcorp.com> <3F5F95B9.A8CB5786@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F9A8C.CA54DD5D@engcorp.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> >
> >
> > Queue.Queue.get() ...
> >
> 
> That looks good.  But that needs a thread to block, right?

Yep.

> A generator manages to run without being a thread (at least
> overtly).  If we have the suck() statement, we also need
> something that's the opposite of a generator (a Sucker?)
> and something that's the opposite of an iterator (a Suckee?).
> I'm starting to get an idea why this is completely not all
> there.
> 
> The main question this raises is "How lightweight are threads?"
> Can I program with dozens or hundreds of python threads in a
> program (for example under Windows) and not notice that this is
> an inefficient or inept coding style?

The real question might be why would you want to?

If you don't want a thread, but you want something which takes
input from elsewhere and does some processing, then returns 
control to some other place until more data is available (which
is what one might assume if threads aren't good for you), there
is already a convenient solution: the subroutine.  ;-)

Seriously, what's the requirement driving the need for this?
(I suspect Erik Max's answer is still what you need, and you
misunderstand the nature of what he was suggesting, but if you'll
explain the specific case you have in mind we'll know for sure.)

-Peter



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Sep  3 11:38:46 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 17:38:46 +0200
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com> <bis8k4$sjv$00$1@news.t-online.com> <m349lvgot9ghsmii9b85uoq34qfhbho8jq@4ax.com> <js99lvguv5vdvmmjfpdmgmo5dnq5akttfb@news.stofanet.dk> <3f550e2f.254030105@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfbru1swzd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld) writes:

> On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:34:37 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen
> <nospamius at lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> > "Encapsulation" is the word that describes the effort(s) to make
> > it impossible for the user of a module to access the attributes
> > (and hidden methods) directly and only allow him to do it through
> > public methods with build-in check so that no disasters occur.
> 
> <RANT>
> Does anyone else really hate this corruption as much as me?

Yes. Me.

> Encapsulation in OO originally meant the ability to bind data and
> functions together into a single thing (that we call an object).

> The ability to hide the internal data was called data hiding

I make a point of stating this in my Python courses.

> Polymorphism (whether based on inheritance (like C++) or inteface
> (like Python)).

Yes, I also make a point stating that (dynamic) polymorphism is
orthogonal to inheritance (unless your language is fundamentally
flawed :-)

> I've been trying to find the exact point when encapsulation
> changed its meaning to data hiding but without success.

I don't think that it has changed its meaning; most people just use
the term incorrectly.

Similarly, I don't think that the meaning of "pizza's" has changed
just because most people insist on writing "pizza's" when they really
mean "pizzas" (as in "please give me five pizza's")[1].

I have similar feelings about the orthogonality of the static-dynamic
and strong-weak typing axes ... just because most people say that
Python is weakly typed, doesn't mean that it is, or that the meaning
of "weakly typed" has changed.

But I guess that I am plain wrong: given that there is no Academy of
English to govern its use, majority use determines meaning.

> Sorry, just had to get that off my chest! :-)

I know the feeling. It was only a lack of time that prevented me from
doing so myself, on first reading of the original.



[1] Of cour'se, this is not about pizza's, but the abu'se of
    apostrophe's in general.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Sep 17 21:55:29 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:55:29 -0500
Subject: About Python's C API
In-Reply-To: <bkb0lu$dig$1@news.seed.net.tw>
References: <bkb0lu$dig$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <20030918015523.GB7178@unpythonic.net>

Let me start by saying I'm not a pro with the C API of Python.

With PyRun_SimpleString(), everything takes place in the special
__main__ module:
    PyRun_SimpleStringFlags(const char *command, PyCompilerFlags *flags)
    {
	    PyObject *m, *d, *v;
	    m = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
	    if (m == NULL)
		    return -1;
	    d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
	    v = PyRun_StringFlags(command, Py_file_input, d, d, flags);
	    if (v == NULL) {
		    PyErr_Print();
		    return -1;
	    }
	    Py_DECREF(v);
	    if (Py_FlushLine())
		    PyErr_Clear();
	    return 0;
    }

So, to get the attribute x from __main__, convert it to a string, and
printf() it, you'd use this sequence [all untested]:
    PyObject *m, *d, *x, *s;

    /* m is a "new" reference */
    m = PyImport_AddModule("__main__");
    if (m == NULL)
	    return -1;
    /* d is a "borrowed" reference */
    d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
    Py_DECREF(m); m = NULL; /* Done with m -- decref and set to NULL */
    x = PyDict_GetItemString(d, "x")
    /* x is a "borrowed" reference */
    if (x == NULL) {
	PyErr_Print();
	return;
    }
    /* s is a "new" reference */
    s = PyObject_Str(x);
    if (s == NULL) {
	PyErr_Print();
	return;
    }
    printf("x: %s\n", PyString_AsString(s));
    Py_DECREF(s); s = NULL; /* Done with s -- decref and set to NULL */

If you're programming in C++, you might benefit from checking out boost.python at
    http://boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html
I'm not actually a boost.python user, but I've heard good things about it.

Jeff




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep  2 08:56:15 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:56:15 GMT
Subject: artificial intelligence
References: <mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pr05b.3585$R32.108196@news2.tin.it>

Arthur wrote:
   ...
> *Our* intelligence seems to give us a read as to where on the bell curve a
> particular event may lie, or a least some sense of when we are at an

Wrong: human beings are *eager* pattern-matching devices, extremely prone
to detect "patterns" that just don't exist in statistically significant
ways.  There's quite a substantial body of literature, by now, on the
general issue of frequent fallacies on reasoning about probabilities.

Skeptical literature that tries to show up various kinds of unfounded
beliefs (in "pseudo-sciences" as well as more traditional superstitions)
is also quite productive in examples; I recall a wonderful essay by
Asimov (centered on Pompey's career) and a few by Gould (in "I have
Landed", centered on his discovery that his immigrant grandfather,
whose diary inspires the whole collection's title, landed in the US
on September 11 1901) trying to shake the reader into believing that
coincidences ARE just coincidences, bereft of cosmic meaning, even
when they appear to loom inexhorably strong to our inborn pattern-
matching mechanisms.  I also recall the original formulation of Wilson
and Shea's "Law of Fives" (including the snide reference to
ingenuity on the part of the demonstrator:-), before Wilson, at
least, got a tad too fascinated with the increasing amount of such 
coincidences he noticed (and I speak as one born on 5-10-55...:-).


Alex




From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Sep 29 17:43:21 2003
From: nospam at nospam.com (AK)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:43:21 GMT
Subject: shelve keeping old (unused) data around?
References: <nm0eb.44174$ai7.36973@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> <mailman.1064867319.29019.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZH1eb.35383$pP6.17691@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

In article <mailman.1064867319.29019.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     nospam> I'm using shelve module in python 2.3 and I found that it does a
>     nospam> very odd thing, at least very unexpected to me. It seems that
>     nospam> the data of a replaced or deleted key stays in filename.dat
>     nospam> file.
> 
> The bits which actually get written to the disk depend on the underlying
> library writing those bits.  The shelve module has no say in the matter.
> All it does to create a file is ask anydbm to open it, then pickle the
> values so they can be written out as strings.  Again, shelve doesn't do that
> directly.  It asks the object created by anydbm to do that.  You didn't say
> (perhaps you don't know) what the underlying library is on your system.  It
> seems likely that the library deletes the key, but leaves the data dangling
> (perhaps also marked free so it can reuse it at a later time).
> 
> Skip

Okay, as long as it's not a bug.. For the record, it seems like it's
bsddb on this side. Thanks, Skip!

 -AK


> 



From linux at ivsn.com  Tue Sep  9 10:09:37 2003
From: linux at ivsn.com (Paul Reznicek)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 07:09:37 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org> <biipks$9mguu$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <6ee58e07.0308271457.7349086f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d38ecca7.0309090609.17c3cea4@posting.google.com>

llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<6ee58e07.0308271457.7349086f at posting.google.com>...

> .....
> And it is not complete if you want to program Web Applications.

What is the better one for program Web Applications?

Paul



From no at spam.invalid  Thu Sep 25 16:12:42 2003
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:12:42 -0700
Subject: [Tkinter] event problem
References: <bks0va$9mv$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <bkvi7q$22ja$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <bks0va$9mv$1 at ns.felk.cvut.cz>,
 Ivan Letal <admin4055 at centrum.cz> wrote:

>I have just tried this code....
>Here is the error:
>
>Exception in Tkinter callback
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File 
>"/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 
>1299, in __call__
>     args = apply(self.subst, args)
>   File 
>"/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 
>1035, in _substitute
>     e.height = getint(h)
>ValueError: invalid literal for int(): ??

I think you are running mutually incompatible versions of Python and Tk. 
Python 2.2.2 and earlier need Tk 8.4.1 or earlier. Python 2.3 is 
compatible with later versions of Tk.

-- Russell



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 15:41:52 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:41:52 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <mailman.1063300996.11325.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dvi1mvk0m4hcunn9b1jch0goa1v1kt031t@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:22:22 -0700, Michael Chermside
<mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:

>> if copying is costly and only
>> sometimes necessary, wrap the item into a copy-on-write proxy for every
>> logically distinct but physically identical instance.
>
>Excellent idea! But, how do I write a copy-on-write proxy in Python?

I suspect this is one of those things which is doable, but you end up
having to write a specialised proxy for each case (ie each class being
proxied). Depending on how many methods you need to support, it may
not be that much of a headache of course.

There are other ways of doing it that don't need a change to Python,
though - I guess the particular method will probably depend on
particular cases.

>To add even
>that one boolean property would significantly complicate callables.

Absolutely true - it should only for affect calls with at least one
'ref' parameter, but even then, without a compelling use case this
more than enough reason to reject the idea.

>I'd-cc-Stephen-Horne-directly-but-it'd-be-rejected-as-a-Nigerian-scam lly,

You'd have a hard job - just noticed my sig is missing from my posts,
and my e-mail address deliberately isn't in the header field.

I'll fix the sig in a minute, when I can face the newsreaders
settings, but if its needed my email is steve at ninereeds dot fsnet
dot co dot uk.




From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep 11 03:40:42 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:40:42 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Canvas/Grid question
References: <vlvm553ie2is04@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bjp90r$1ng$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi Gary

> from Tkinter import *
>
> class Test(Frame):
>     def __init__(self, parent):
>         Frame.__init__(self, parent)
>         frame = Frame(parent)

There is some confusion here: self *is* the frame, no need or use to make
another....

>         self.canvas = Canvas(frame, bg='white' , width=300, height=100)

There is some trick needed here: add:
        self.rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.columnconfigure(0, weight=1)

>         self.canvas.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky='NESW')
>         frame.grid()
This packs the frame to the parent, so it limits the size of your frame in
any case
I should recommend pack in this place (which is possible, because it's
another frame)

Altogether it shall look as follows and work fine:

    def __init__(self, parent):
        Frame.__init__(self, parent)
        self.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)

        self.canvas = Canvas(self, bg='white' , width=300, height=100)
        self.rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.canvas.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky='nesw')






From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 16:40:25 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:40:25 +0200
Subject: Pmw ScrolledText Widget
References: <d44e8ee7.0309041134.110406a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj880p$je2$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"Andrew Wheatley" <awheat at imaging.robarts.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d44e8ee7.0309041134.110406a5 at posting.google.com...
> In the text component, I use the insert method to insert a line of
> text.
> Initially, I set the foreground colour of the text component to
> yellow, that is,
> all text is yellow.  What I'd like to do is have different strings
> have different coloured text.  You can't change the foreground color
> of the text component without changing all the strings to the same
> colour.  Anyone know how to have
> different strings have different colours?

Text is a very versatile widget! Read the spec! You will have to use tags.

from Tkinter import *

t=Text()
t.pack()
t.tag_config('nice',background='green')
t.tag_config('reverse',background='black',foreground='white')

t.insert('end',"NICE","nice","REVERSE","reverse")
mainloop()


Kindly
Michael P





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep  4 09:25:38 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:25:38 -0400
Subject: py2exe copies to much dlls
References: <bj6iot$oe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F573D52.32D836BD@engcorp.com>

Achim Domma wrote:
> 
> I managed to build a simple com server with py2exe. My script only imports
> codecs and re, but the dist folder contains tcl84.dll, tk84.dll and
> win32ui.pyd. Can somebody tell me why? And how to prevent this? I don't do
> any gui stuff, so where does the dependency comes from?

Can you py2exe the following script and see what you get?  If it's
still the same stuff, post the py2exe setup.py script you used and
the command line:

# test script

print 'Hello, world!'

(Yes, that's all...  :-)

-Peter



From claird at lairds.com  Sun Sep 28 09:23:48 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:23:48 -0000
Subject: Metaphysics of security provisions (was: Now that rexec is gone...)
References: <XA8db.597231$o%2.276974@sccrnsc02> <Ihidb.130710$hE5.4447927@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <vndo742ca2f10@corp.supernews.com>

In article <Ihidb.130710$hE5.4447927 at news1.tin.it>,
Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Actually, such a "butchered" Python interpreter might be a fun and
>useful project indeed.  You would have to add programmable limits on
>resource consumptions -- e.g., memory allocatable by the script[s],
>time (CPU or maybe elapsed) usable thereby, etc.  And you should rename
Good instincts!  Yes, some of the recent work in regard to
safe interpretation that I find most interesting focuses
on precisely this:  resource management.  That's as op-
posed to the rather static causal tracing where Java's
core security theoreticians have put their attention.
I know there are people working with Java who care about
resource management; I don't *think* their results are
showing up in the libraries Sun specifies.

Apt proxies for your "time" include lots of easy ones for
an introspective interpreter, such as number-of-bytecodes
processed.  That's another reason this is likely to be
"fun and useful" for Python:  it already builds in good
introspection.

Warm-up exercise:  list resources of interest.  You've
already mentioned (memory) space and time.  Anything the
operating system has to conserve--channel handles, threads,
SysV semaphores, display contexts, color maps, physical
device references, ...--is a likely candidate.  Another
refinement:  the OS could provide higher-level support for
resources usually left in userland.  It strikes me that
this could be valuable even outside its use in a restricted
interpreter.  Pools of, for example, database connections 
are the first example that comes to my mind.
			.
			.
			.
>Not *QUITE* as good as running untrusted code in a separate "jail"'d
>process, perhaps, but probably the closest you can come to that on
>such environments as Windows.  Note that the need to add resource
>limitations is crucial (and was never addressed by rexec, making it
>pretty useless to ward against denial-of-service kinds of attacks!).
Worth repeating.  Also, note that "jail" (or sandbox) is
not the only metaphor worth considering in this area.
Another is the positive one behind operating systems (I
need to figure out a one-word label for this):  "zero-
based" provision of services for which one has been
authorized.  This builds up, rather than down.  Instead
of calculating how much is safe to put in the sandbox,
it makes the dual calculation of what building blocks
can safely be allowed the developer.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Sep 24 14:20:01 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:20:01 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
In-Reply-To: <bksmrs$1u0$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEANHFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[vincent wehren]
> "Release 2.4a0, documentation updated on 23 September 2003."  on each
> page! 
>
> ;)

Alas, because software isn't just stupid, it's relentlessly stupid.

python's-html-docs-are-generated-from-latex-via-perl<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From ivoras at fer.hr  Tue Sep 16 15:08:21 2003
From: ivoras at fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:08:21 +0200
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr> <8765jsppkt.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>
Message-ID: <bk7n5d$5rf$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Lukasz Pankowski wrote:

> subsequent runs of of the script given below.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.


-- 
-- 
Every sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology
   - Arthur C Anticlarke





From pervago at prodigy.net.mx  Fri Sep  5 17:05:25 2003
From: pervago at prodigy.net.mx (Eugene Pervago)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 14:05:25 -0700
Subject: Automated code generation
References: <3f58ba15$0$97267$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <vlhff5srvf1l28@corp.supernews.com> <3F58D910.197C3C85@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <b6da2736.0309051305.69ccaf69@posting.google.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote in message news:<3F58D910.197C3C85 at easystreet.com>...
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> > Yes, it's largely useless in a language as dynamic as Python.
> 
> Isn't SWIG a code generator?

Most of what it generates is C++, Python is special in that there is
some optional wrapper code generated to use Python 2.2's features like
properties. No code, for example, is generated for Ruby (or Perl
AFAIK).

Eugene Pervago
Kahakai (Python scripted window manager) http://kahakai.sf.net/



From mwh at python.net  Fri Sep 26 17:43:08 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:43:08 GMT
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h37k3vnscp.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

roberto at dealmeida.net (Roberto A. F. De Almeida) writes:

> I found that when using negative indices, the slice object passed to
> __getitem__ depends on the number of slices.

It's bit of a pest for me to check things right now, but: are you
using Python 2.3?  Things *may* have changed here.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  But since I'm not trying to impress  anybody in The Software Big
  Top, I'd rather walk the wire using a big pole, a safety harness,
  a net, and with the wire not more than 3 feet off the ground.
                                   -- Grant Griffin, comp.lang.python



From nospamius at lundhansen.dk  Mon Sep  1 06:53:14 2003
From: nospamius at lundhansen.dk (Bertel Lund Hansen)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:53:14 +0200
Subject: Declaration of an array of unspecified size
References: <m814lvc8h44vbd5g1m2iv05r33qg8ag9ta@news.stofanet.dk> <biu6k0$c8fs4$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <biv3jc$h3b$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <q096lv4ec6m66fr2pfk5f2f2khmij8i8ma@news.telia.dk>

Anton Vredegoor skrev:

>You followed the OP into using "pop" as a name for an instance.
>However "pop" is also a *method* of type list.

I will change the name. I never use existing identifiers as
variables.

In fact people usually complain about my habit in this respect,
because if I want an English name, but realize that it is already
taken (by me or the system), I use a Danish one instead, so my
program might look like this:

	if number==5: tal*=7
	if text=="people": udsagn="Okay"

a.s.o.

-- 
Bertel, Denmark



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Sep 12 07:57:48 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:57:48 GMT
Subject: tkinter, sockets and threads together
References: <79ad5955.0309111133.5f6bf26f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <0xi8b.2$3Y2.0@news2.central.cox.net>

"Julia Goolia" <juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:79ad5955.0309111133.5f6bf26f at posting.google.com...
> hello,
>
> i read that it is bad to use threads with tkinter.  so my question is
> how does one create a gui program with sockets?  at one point you have
> to call mainloop() which does not return.  then you are not free to do
> stuff with the sockets.
>
> what's up with that?
>
> thanks so much for your time!

Well, one page worth reading would be Jacob Hall?n's

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/82965

recipe, which IIRC is pretty general.

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/







From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep  8 09:53:45 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:53:45 +0200
Subject: Ternary operator (Re: Ternery operator)
In-Reply-To: <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com> <3F5B6404.BD1A9709@engcorp.com> <vlo9699d77sj3e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030908135345.GA5991@nl.linux.org>

Michael Geary wrote:
> > Andrew Chalk wrote:
> > > Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=4.16&req=search
> 
> As a newcomer to Python, I found it interesting to read the PEP for this:
> 
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html
> 
> In retrospect, it seems obvious that the way the voting was conducted
> insured that no ternary operator would be added to the language.

It may be interesting to read the thread on c.l.py that took place befor
the vote was taken - it contains a lot of information, including a
discussion on this statement.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
219. If a physician make a large incision in the slave of a freed man,
and kill him, he shall replace the slave with another slave.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From avadmin at cds.unina.it  Thu Sep  4 19:40:46 2003
From: avadmin at cds.unina.it (avadmin at cds.unina.it)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:40:46 CEST
Subject: Inflex scan report [09041940507030]
Message-ID: <200309041740.h84HelB8506804@cds.unina.it>

Administrator Email Reply Address: avadmin
Email sent to:  zelati at cds.unina.it
Inflex ID: 09041940507030
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Version 3.71, July 2003 [Digital Unix/Alpha]
Includes detection for 82970 viruses, trojans and worms
Copyright (c) 1989,2003 Sophos Plc, www.sophos.com

System time 19:40:47, System date 04 September 2003
Command line qualifiers are: -archive -all -rec -sc

IDE directory is: /usr/local/sav

Using IDE file webber-a.ide
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File panjang.ide is older than 90 days
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Using IDE file dwnld-di.ide
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Using IDE file jsurf-a.ide

Quick Sweeping

00:01 _headers_
00:01 textfile0
00:01 textfile1
00:01 thank_you.pif
>>> Virus 'W32/Sobig-F' found in file /usr/local/inflex/tmp/inf_09041940507030/unpacked/thank_you.pif
00:01 textfile2    
               
5 files swept in 1 second.
1 virus was discovered.
1 file out of 5 was infected.
Please send infected samples to Sophos for analysis.
For advice consult www.sophos.com, email support at sophos.com
or telephone +44 1235 559933
End of Sweep.

File NAME/TYPE Scan Results


09041940507030  from:python-list at python.org  to: zelati at cds.unina.itType scanning off.
Name scanning off.
Text scanning off.

END OF MESSAGE.

End.
.




From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Fri Sep 12 16:19:12 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:19:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: datetime: How to get diff between 2 dates in month units?
Message-ID: <56819.199.169.240.132.1063397952.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-


I have a lot of monthly time series data.  I need to be able to compare
two dates and get the number of months that they are apart.

The datetime module is a daily-frequency data type.  It has a timedelta
object that returns the difference in days between two dates:

>>> d1 = datetime.date(2002,1,1)
>>> d2 = datetime.date(2001,12,1)
>>> diff = d1-d2
>>> diff.days
31

I want to be able to compare monthly-frequency data, so that I can do
something like this:

>>>firstdate = newMonthlyDatetime(2002, 5)
>>>Nov2002 = newMonthlyDatetime(2002, 11)
>>>diff = Nov2002 - firstdate
>>>diff.months
6

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to do something like this?

Thanks for the help.




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Wed Sep 24 04:59:34 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:59:34 +0100
Subject: Barcode generator for Python?
Message-ID: <1064393974.1415.2.camel@m-franklin>

I wrote a code39 (3 of 9) barcode class some time ago. 
Is this the type of barcode you want?  It uses standard
python + Tkinter

Regards
Martin


-- 
Martin Franklin <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>





From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Sep 12 13:59:11 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:59:11 -0700
Subject: RAD with Python
In-Reply-To: <87n0d9hpux.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <87n0d9hpux.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200309121059.11608.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Friday 12 September 2003 10:35 am, John J. Lee wrote:
> John <john.thingstad at chello.no> writes:
> > On 12 Sep 2003 06:09:02 -0700, Ubaidullah Nubar
> > <ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > 4.
> > Python is appox 400 times slower than C.
>
> [...]
>
> Maybe this was intended to be a silly number, but: this means very
> little.  The degree of slowdown is hugely variable from one domain to
> the next, and from one program to the next, and I've never heard
> anyone else quote an indicative figure anywhere near that high.
>

Right.  The figure most often stated seems to be about 50, but as you
say, there is so much variation that any number is nearly useless.

Gary Herron






From rnia at algonet.se  Tue Sep 30 09:47:31 2003
From: rnia at algonet.se (.r!kard)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:47:31 +0200
Subject: intercepting smtp email
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se>

I'm no star at this but maybe you can check the code in
  http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

.r!kard

"Scott Hathaway" <scott at hcsprogramming.com> wrote in message
news:c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2 at posting.google.com...
> I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
> traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can do
> something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
> outgoing traffic, specifically.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott





From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Fri Sep 26 09:33:49 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:33:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Where to import modules?
References: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> <3F74375A.F9D4B0EB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bl1f7t$oig$1@fred.mathworks.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
...

> Basically doing this is an optimization, and you shouldn't be optimizing
> before the program is working, and you shouldn't be optimizing without
> a real need for it.  (That is, just because it's a little faster doesn't
> mean it's worth doing.)

Aside from being an optimization, it's also good for documentation.
If you see an import at the top of a file it might not be immediately
clear how or why the module is being used.  It's similar reasoning to
why you might define variables in the narrowest scope posible.



From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Sep 18 16:22:33 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:22:33 GMT
Subject: how to write-protect names
References: <3F68C499.1060604@aon.at> <3F68C60C.AC611276@engcorp.com> <3F68CE89.20601@aon.at>
Message-ID: <slrnbmk56h.113n.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <3F68CE89.20601 at aon.at>, Gregor Lingl wrote:
> Peter Hansen schrieb:
> 
>> What exactly do you need this for?  If you describe the purpose
>> you have in mind for it we can provide the best approach, or 
>> tell you that we don't think you should bother. ;-)
>> 
>> -Peter
> 
> I'm writing a module for teaching young students. It contains
> e. g. a function width, which assigns a value to some (hidden)
> variable:
> 
> >>> width(5)
> 
> Now my experience is, that from time to time some of my
> students write (erroneously)
> 
> >>> width = 5
> 
> which renders the function width unaccessible for future
> use. (Moreover the next
> 
> >>> width(10)
> 
> will result in a rather strange error-message, like
> int-object is not callable ... (my students won't
> underswtand it).
> 
> Wouldn't it be useful if the name width were write-protected
> 


Maybe you could do something with the code module
(InteractiveConsole, compile_command, etc)

You get to set up a hook that is called each time a new
input line comes in... so you could watch for your special
names and just print a helpful reminder when someone tries
to overwrite one.




From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep  4 03:44:08 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 07:44:08 GMT
Subject: Arguments of function as out
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com> <wzoey20yy4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl> <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c3C5b.11574$hE5.408554@news1.tin.it>

Birgit Rahm wrote:

> Thank you,
> I've already read this, but I hoped, there is a way to get these out
> parameters beside this.
> Because I cant redesign the function on the server side. So I have only
> the possibility to change the client side code, which calls this function.
> It seems there is no way in python to use it and get the new out paramter
> value after finishing the function.

Birgit, you do not seem to have *READ* the answer to which you are
replying.  Let me quote it again (since you violate netiquette by
this "top-post", putting your response before the text you are
responding to):

>> All inout or out parameters form consecutive result values. The method
>> result depends then on the number of result values:
>>
>> * If there is no result value, the method returns None.
>> * If there is exactly one result value, it is returned as a single value.
>> * If there is more than one result value, all of them are packed into a
>>   tuple, and this tuple is returned.

Read it again, *CAREFULLY*.  Nothing here requires you to "redesign
the function on the server side": it's only, STRICTLY about what you
do in "the client side code, which calls this function", as you say.

For example: you say you have a function, say X, which has three
arguments, all 'out' parameters, and returns void.  Very well then,
according to the Python language binding which Piet quoted to you,
from the point of view of the Python client code calling X, X is
returning a tuple which packs the three result values!

So, you call it as:

    a, b, c = X()

and that's all!  Note you do NOT pass arguments corresponding to
out parameters (you DO pass arguments corresponding to in and inout
parameters, if any); you get result values corresponding to the
function's nonvoid return if any (none here) followed by all out
and inout parameters.

It ain't all that hard, really...


Alex




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 17 14:22:41 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:22:41 -0400
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org> <slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net> <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75> <3F688EC4.F39D551B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F68A671.4315AFB@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Fred Pacquier wrote:
> >
> > Mirko Zeibig <mirko-lists at zeibig.net> said :
> >
> > > Especially useful together with the locals() function, which returns a
> > > dictionary of locally defined variables:
> > >
> > > def foo():
> > >     a = "Hello"
> > >     b = "World"
> > >     print "%(a)s %(b)s" % locals()
> >
> > Yes, that's a wonderful feature. Recently though, I've wondered a couple of
> > times : is there an easy way to substitute with both local AND global
> > variables ?...
> 
> tempDict = locals()
> tempDict.update(globals())

Hmmm... should that be locals().copy() ?  Probably...



From alan_salmoni at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 09:51:27 2003
From: alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 06:51:27 -0700
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <b68f71a7.0309050551.469cab6f@posting.google.com>

Hi Patrick,

"When wizards stay up late" (Hafner & Lyon) - about the "birth" of the
internet and the people around it. I managed to read it twice in a
couple of months, and it describes a bit of computing history that has
had a profound effect on all of us. Call this extremely geeky, but I
love the idea of tinkering around with the old machines described in
that book. I'll have to search for a simulator when I get a spare few
hours! I found it full of detail (not too technical, but lots of
historical info), but fascinating to read, especially that J.C.R.
Licklider was a psychophysicist! :)

Or of course, "the art of computer programming" by Donald Knuth, which
is the classic text about our field. Knuth strikes me as one of the
best programmers to have existed. Anyone who can write something as
complex and useful as TeX and have as few bug reports, well, they've
got to be respected! And there are 3 volumes, so there's plenty to get
through. I must confess that I haven't read it myself (again, so
little time), but it's supposed to be one of the seminal texts, and I
must get around to it...

Hope your hospital stay isn't too long!

Alan James Salmoni
SalStat Statistics
http://salstat.sunsite.dk

Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote in message news:<opruzmelopdd8opo at news.vo.lu>...
> Hi All,
> 
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am 
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across 
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like 
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
> few years, about Python or IT in general.
> 
> -Patrick



From mack at incise.org  Tue Sep 23 05:08:35 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:08:35 -0500
Subject: import pickle succeeds only after two tries??
In-Reply-To: <1064307542.783575@blaat.sara.nl>
References: <1064307542.783575@blaat.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <20030923090835.GA5048@incise.org>

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 10:59:03AM +0200, Bram Stolk wrote:
> The first 'import pickle' fails with "ImportError: No module named StringIO"
> If I immediately do a second 'import pickle', it works????
> 
<snip>
> 
> I find this extremely strange.
> What could be going on here?

Not sure about the exact problem you're having with pickle, however, the
import issue you are having is a general Python issue, not specific to
pickle or anything.

death at two ~ % echo 'print hello' > foo.py
death at two ~ % python
Python 2.3+ (#2, Sep  8 2003, 20:36:54) 
[GCC 3.3.1 20030626 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import foo 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "foo.py", line 1, in ?
    print hello
NameError: name 'hello' is not defined
>>> import foo
>>> 

-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
When you make your mark in the world, watch out for guys with erasers.
		-- The Wall Street Journal




From b.preusing at web.de  Sun Sep  7 01:22:35 2003
From: b.preusing at web.de (Bernd Preusing)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 07:22:35 +0200
Subject: Need help on UNICODE conversion
References: <5lbklvgtlm6l4e1n51tnbin151drrh4410@4ax.com> <3F5A5905.9E8571E3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <9pdllvgk17b3cetat24g9uj4hq9la7umt3@4ax.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>Bernd Preusing wrote:
>
>> I have a JPG file which contains some comment as unicode.
>> 
>> After reading in the string with s=file.read(70) from file offest 4
>> I get a string which is shown as
>> 'UNICODE\\0x00\\ox00K\\0x00o' and so forth in the debugger
>> (using Komodo).
>
>As others have pointed out, this seems to be an unfaithful cut and
>paste; to really tell what it is we'd have to see the actual contents of
>the string.  If it is really Unicode, however, it looks like it might be
>a UTF-16 encoding.  Try 'utf-16' for the encoding name.

Yes, sorry. Cut & paste was not possible, so I wrote it down
with some errors, very tired and frustrated :-(
I had tried to attach a small screenshot, but this is no binary news
group...

My first fault was to cut off the first 7 bytes, but I had to
eliminate 8.

The byte array is
0000: 55 4e 49 43 4f 44 45 00 00 4b 00 6f 00 6d 00 6d UNICODE..K.o.m.m
0010: 00 65 00 6e 00 74 00 61 00 72 00 20 00 55 00 6e .e.n.t.a.r. .U.n
0020: 00 69 00 63 00 6f 00 64 00 65 00 20 00 2a 00 e4 .i.c.o.d.e. .*..
0030: 00 f6 00 fc 00 c4 00 d6 00 dc 00 df 00 2a 00 0d
0040: 00 0a 00 0d 00 0a

I had to cut off the beginning, which is "UNICODE\x00".
The remainder means "Kommentar Unicode *???????*"
(this contains german umlauts at the end)

Now I have a string
ustring = "\x00K\x00o\x00m....."

us2 = unicode(ustring, "utf_16")
yields: UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf16' codec can't decode bytes in
position 48-49: illegal encoding

Strange, because that position is at "00 dc" and not earlier!?

According to your tips I stripped off all remainig \x00 and got
"Kommentar Unicode *\xe4\xf6\xfc\xc4\xd6\xdc\xdf*\r\n\r\n"

I can go on with that string now :-))
But what would have been the "right" way?

Thaks again
  Bernd




From ccurvey at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 11 17:10:29 2003
From: ccurvey at earthlink.net (Chris Curvey)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:10:29 GMT
Subject: why is this failing?
Message-ID: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

I've looked at this so long that I must be looking right past it.  This 
code:

class Page:
     ##########################################################
     def write(self, value, row=None, col=None, len=None):
         print isinstance(value, str)

         # error occurs on this line
         print len(value)

########################################################
if __name__ == "__main__":
     p = Page()

     p.write("banana")



is throwing this error:




True
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "P2.py", line 13, in ?
     p.write("banana")
   File "P2.py", line 7, in write
     print len(value)
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable


What am I missing?




From stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net  Wed Sep 17 14:12:11 2003
From: stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:12:11 -0500
Subject: Simple python cgi question
In-Reply-To: <87llsnmrw4.fsf@flibuste.net>
References: <MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net> <87llsnmrw4.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <wG6dneAarP2YP_WiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>

Wilk wrote:
> Stephen Boulet <stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net> writes:
> 
> 
>>First of all, I'm not sure that the easiest way to do this is with
>>python ...
>>
>>I'd like to set up a web page that would accept a text file, process
>>it with a local program, and then make available generated pdf and
>>postscript files for downloading.
>>
>>I'd like to limit the size of the file to be uploaded.
>>
>>I have apache2 already up. Is this a job for (mod_)python?
> 
> 
> Yes why not ?

I was hoping for a bit more detail ...




From mark at hahnca.com  Mon Sep  1 17:18:43 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:18:43 -0700
Subject: Traversing the object space.
References: <6ee58e07.0309011031.5e56000b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062445863.7553.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WIO4b.11891$n94.10641@fed1read04>

> > Ruby has a nice function that can traverse the complete object space
> > of your program.
> >
> > Is there anything like this in python ? It seems to be not in the
> > standart library but maybe i can find a short script somewhere else.
> >
> > It is a nice way for to do some memory checks to find out if a part of
> > your app is generating too much objects.
>
>
>     import gc
>     print gc.get_objects()
>

Does this only report objects that support the garbage collector?





From john at rygannon.com  Sat Sep 20 19:39:40 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:39:40 GMT
Subject: What is the meaning of the astarisk in Python
Message-ID: <3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi
Below is a line taken from Andy Dustman's MySQLdb module:
def Connect(*args, **kwargs):

I would be grateful if somebody explain the meaning of the astarisks, since
I was under the impression that pointers are not used in Python and the
above look very must like pointers to me

-- 
Best Regards
John



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 19:56:45 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 19:56:45 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com> <bjg47a$euv$1@panix3.panix.com> <877k4kjl32.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bjggjt$hdu$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <877k4kjl32.fsf at pobox.com>, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>Whatever.  Just don't get rid of all those cute skewed Python logos in
>all the different typefaces.  All sensible people will agree that
>that's clearly the most important aspect of the site ;-)

Although the decision isn't final, that's actually one of the prime
targets.  Sorry.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From cnetzer at sonic.net  Sun Sep  7 14:30:41 2003
From: cnetzer at sonic.net (Chad Netzer)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 11:30:41 -0700
Subject: OT: best book in years
In-Reply-To: <87ad9g4v95.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com>
	 <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com>
	 <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com>
	 <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <87oexyls54.fsf@pobox.com>
	 <bjdm21$nr2$1@wheel2.two14.net>
	 <mailman.1062908472.9309.python-list@python.org>
	 <DGB6b.24532$hE5.902016@news1.tin.it>
	 <mailman.1062927617.22452.python-list@python.org>
	 <87ad9g4v95.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1062959441.1851.12.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>

On Sun, 2003-09-07 at 05:51, John J. Lee wrote:
> Chad Netzer <cnetzer at sonic.net> writes:
> 
> > On Sun, 2003-09-07 at 01:06, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > 
> > > Me, I'd recommend "Dawkins vs. Gould: Survival of the Fittest",
> > > by Kim Sterelny.
> > 
> > Thanks, I had just been wondering if there was a book on this subject,
> > after a recent discussion about this topic with my girlfriend.
> [...]
> 
> That "debate" is so frequently depressing in its astoundingly low
> quality that I couldn't bring myself to so much as pick up the book.

I might glance at the book (and read some reviews) to see if it goes
beyond the pettiness of the debate itself, to add insight or value to
the actual (supposed) claims of the debaters.  I agree that, otherwise,
it could be of minimal value (except as a convenient way to deflect
conversation when the topic arises) :)

-- 
Chad Netzer





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 12:19:46 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:19:46 +0300
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
Message-ID: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com>

I got my hands on a Itanium2 machine[1], and gcc builds 64-bit
executables by default. (sys.maxint = 9223372036854775807).  _tkinter,
audioop and imageop didn't compile at first, and I believe it's a
problem of configure.

I changed Modules/Setup and removed the hashes from the relevant
modules, and a recompilation worked fine; so did running
test.test_audioop and test.test_imageop.
Things went well for the _tkinter extension too, after editing
Modules/Setup, with the pre-installed 8.3 versions of tcl and tk.

The problem is that I am at a loss with the configure mechanism, and I
can't figure why audioop, imageop and _tkinter were not configured in
from the beginning (it's a linux system, after all; libraries and
includes are in the standard places, ie /usr/lib and /usr/include).  I
am ATM browsing old posts in Google groups searching for pieces of a
'python-configure-how-to', but any hints would be appreciated.

TIA

[1] SGI Altix 3000, 4*900MHz

Some info:

Python 2.4a0 (#1, Sep 24 2003, 17:33:40)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.2 2.96-116.7.2)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import platform
>>> platform.platform()
'Linux-2.4.20-sgi220rp03062622_10017-ia64-with-redhat-2.1-Derry'
>>> platform.uname()
('Linux', 'altix3000.sil-tec.gr', '2.4.20-sgi220rp03062622_10017', '#1
SMP Thu Jun 26 22:04:03 PDT 2003', 'ia64', '')
>>> import test.pystone
>>> test.pystone.main()
Pystone(1.1) time for 50000 passes = 3.6356
This machine benchmarks at 13752.9 pystones/second

# I didn't install the Intel compilers yet to recompile python
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 13:05:42 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:05:42 +0300
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064365659.17594.python-list@python.org> <3f71395d-46f08129-996a-495d-a5ee-05fb1caef6e9@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <kgj3nvgn6cnp9u3f66cb2vtok697lgjt89@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:27:41 +0000 (UTC), rumours say that Klaus
Alexander Seistrup <spam at magnetic-ink.dk> might have written:

>This will yield a false positive and potential damage if the OS has
>spawned another process with the same pid, and running under your uid,
>as the task you wanted to supervise.

This *could* happen (I have seen 16-bit-pid systems with a couple of
stupid processes spawning children too rapidly), but if you are not root
and you are sure that your own processes do not breed like rabbits, then
you can be almost sure that os.kill(pid, 0) will throw an EPERM if your
child has died.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From llothar at web.de  Wed Sep 17 19:54:12 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 16:54:12 -0700
Subject: wanted($):  mac and linux python gui coders for porting
References: <EHr9b.36540$n94.18214@fed1read04> <8dsfmvo15uftg7qvc0oivmsg6eeeqelvtm@4ax.com> <6ee58e07.0309170528.9c81592@posting.google.com> <U3%9b.39616$n94.30901@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309171554.57e4a44@posting.google.com>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> wrote in message news:<U3%9b.39616$n94.30901 at fed1read04>...
> >With his marketing skills
> 
> Whose skills are you reffering to?

Yours. Maybe a website is on the way, instead of the current simple
page.


By the way: The program throws an exception when i want to add a
picture.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 378, in OnMouseDown
  File "<string>", line 695, in OnAddPhoto
  File "C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
line 434, in choose_photo
  File "C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
line 392, in __init__
  File "C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
line 288, in set_path
  File "C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
line 208, in PaintNow
  File "C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
line 222, in paint
  File "C:\Installer\EzPicMailer\buildEzPicMailer\out1.pyz/photochooser_dialog",
line 137, in get_bitmap_bigpath
  File "<string>", line 522, in save_datastore
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'data/app_datastore.pkl'



From kmkstyle at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 09:33:10 2003
From: kmkstyle at hotmail.com (Kathleen Kudzma)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:33:10 -0400
Subject: py2exe endcodings/SAXReader Issues
Message-ID: <Law15-F96WpmIWIDKaa0000f393@hotmail.com>

I'm having a problem with py2exe for Python 2.3.  I got fixed the 
Lookuperror no codec search functions registered: can't find encoding by 
following the instructions on the py2exe page (added -packages encodings 
--force-imports encodings).  This resolved the codec error. When I tried to 
create an exe with py2exe I still got the following warnings.   Please see 
the new error I got (after warnings).

***************************************************************
**********
warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
warning: py2exe: *   Carbon.Folder
warning: py2exe: *   Carbon.Folders
warning: py2exe: *   DateTime
warning: py2exe: *   Ft.Lib
warning: py2exe: *   Ft.Lib.DumpBgTuple
warning: py2exe: *   Ft.__init__
warning: py2exe: *   SOCKS
warning: py2exe: *   XPathParserc
warning: py2exe: *   ext.IsDOMString
warning: py2exe: *   ext.SplitQName
warning: py2exe: *   fcntl
warning: py2exe: *   ic
warning: py2exe: *   mx.DateTime
warning: py2exe: *   rourl2path
warning: py2exe: *   xml.xslt
warning: py2exe: *   xml.xslt.ParsedPattern
warning: py2exe: 
***************************************************************
**********

When I tried to run my program, the application comes up fine until I try to 
do something with XML. Basically, I get the following error:

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Tkinter.pyc", line 1345, in __call__
  File "<string>", line 125, in loadDoc
  File "<string>", line 83, in documentSetup
  File "xml\dom\ext\reader\Sax2.pyc", line 346, in __init__
  File "xml\sax\saxexts.pyc", line 77, in make_parser
SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

Does anyone have any suggestions?

kk

_________________________________________________________________
Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! 
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon





From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep 30 09:50:16 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:50:16 +0200
Subject: Best Bug Tracker on Zope platform ?
References: <62f2814b.0309300355.6091dd84@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f7989dc@news.swissonline.ch>

Have a look at Roundup!

Regards
Franz GEIGER


"Jerrykhan" <jerome.vacher at gehis.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:62f2814b.0309300355.6091dd84 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
> who know the best Bug tracker system on a Python/Zope server ?
> BugZilla is Perl oriented (beuh !!)
> What about others ?
> Is A python oriented BugZilla like exists ? or need I write it ?
>
> On a zope one or behind an apache one.
>
> Any ideas ?
> Thanks ..
>
> JerryKhan the foolish dracomorpheus.





From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Sep 10 18:20:08 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:20:08 -0600
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
In-Reply-To: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com>
References: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200309101620.08677.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 11 September 2003 03:57 pm, Randy wrote:
> Flash Remoting is a way for Flash applications to make "native" method
> calls in Action Script to a server side program, using the AMF binary
> format.
>
> Flash has commercial versions of a Flash Remoting servers.  There are
> open-source alternatives for php, java, and perl.  But alas, no
> Python.
>
> Does anyone have any interest in a project like this?

I would be interested in using such a thing, as well as helping out a little. 

I've had a need for it in the "normal" use case you mention but also to run 
against a local server in order to enable stand-alone (non-browser, 
non-network) applications that use Flash for the GUI.

-Dave




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Sep  8 18:58:47 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:58:47 +1000
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD4CF4@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: John Roth [mailto:newsgroups at jhrothjr.com]
>
> > Also I think that the class members should be explicitly 
> declared. In
> > general, it would be nice to have an option (like Option Explicit in
> > Visual Basic) so that you can't assign to variables that 
> have not been
> > declared. It would probably make Python less error prone.
> 
> I believe that is what __slots__ is for. That's run time rather than
> compile time, but at least it gives you the error on the statement
> that attempts to do an invalid assignment.

I think you badly misunderstand the purpose of __slots__. __slots__ is not designed to restrict the capabilities of a class (although some people misuse it that way). The sole use case for the introduction of __slots__ was to improve performance and memory usage.

Personally, I think every class other than the built-in types should have an implicit __dict__ entry in __slots__ to remove this misunderstanding ... (only populated if actually accessed ...).

Unfortunately, Explicit is better than Implicit ... ;)

Tim Delaney




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Fri Sep 12 03:33:34 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:33:34 +1000
Subject: Web server with Python
In-Reply-To: <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com>
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <gvs2mvcgmji0s536475c14oa5tm7cigk13@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030912073334.GB8069@frobozz>

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 09:21:58AM +0200, Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:19:50 -0700, Dave Kuhlman <dkuhlman at rexx.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Twisted is more than Web apps, by the way.
> 
> Does Twisted work well with Python 2.3?

Yes, current versions support 2.3 without any problems.

-Andrew.





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep  9 04:19:59 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:19:59 +0200
Subject: Jython class names
References: <zsNtMLAchYX$EwY3@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bjk2fk$38o$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> I recently came across a problem with porting to Jython
> 
> basically the following is prints 1 in CPython, but not in Jython.
> 
> class C:
>         pass
> 
> red = C()
> print red.__class__.__name__ is 'C'
> 
> 
> it seems that Jython doesn't intern names in the same way or instances
> are not constructed in the same way. Is the above test robust or should
> I always be using == for testing class names?

I have no Jython around, but I expect the following to always work:

>>> class C: pass
...
>>> C().__class__.__name__ is C.__name__
True
>>> isinstance(C(), C)
True
>>>

(Of course isinstance() will also return True for subclass instances)

Peter



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Sep  8 17:27:29 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 23:27:29 +0200
Subject: basic rules of design (was Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <p3idnVDIPrJm5caiU-KYgg@comcast.com> <bjg076$ajd$1@panix3.panix.com> <bjg0lm$n94$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <RJZ6b.43418$R32.1381022@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bjisa4$54b$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

>> A basic rule of design should always be:  a default (www.python.org) value
>> should satisfy the _majority_ of usage cases (not those with the most
>> money/corporate power/whatever).  Since the majority of visitors to the
>> site can arguably be thought to be developers, _that_ is the audience the
>
>As a general principle of design, this is wrong, because it does not
>take into account the _COST_ of occurrences of "not satisfying".

Since no one dares to tackle this, and it has to be dealt with,
reluctantly I'll make a start. There's more to it than costs, also the
*changing of the definition of what gains and costs are* and the
directions one wants to take have to be considered.

>Of course, if one DOES consider costs appropriately, then the thesis that
>Fernando wants to promote doesn't necessarily follow any more.  It may
>well be argued that developers are more web-savvy than managers and other
>corporate decision-makers, easily able to follow a link and/or set a
>bookmark as appropriate -- so that failing to serve developers by the
>default homepage has low cost, while failing to serve managers by it
>(even though it were true that *EVEN IN THE FUTURE* most visitors will
>be developers) may well have higher costs.

The general idea seems to be that it's costing very little to give way
to managers while it brings a lot of advantages that cannot be gained
any other way because of the low tolerance of these people for
developer friendly web sites. While this dichotomy is questionable
from the outset there are also other issues that are more important
than static traffic analysis.

For example consider Christopher Columbus setting foot on America for
the first time. This is not just some dry historic fact but it also
marked the exact landing place as a place with higher probability of
future expeditions landing at the same spot. While it is not *sure*
following parties will choose the same spot, it still is likely that
they will follow directions from the first traveler. Also a small base
camp or the remains of it will make it easier for the next ship. Maybe
there where some friendly relations with the local population later
and some primitive exchange of goods (that was before some other
highly ominous occurrence prompted the visitors to wipe out almost the
entire population of the continent, I don't claim to know the exact
details but it's just an image :-| )

For those more given to statistical analysis consider f.e. a 100x100
grid where each point initially has a probability of 1/10000 to be
selected. After a point is selected the point itself and some points
in its neighborhood receive higher probabilities to be selected next
time, (all probabilities can be scaled anew after that, so that they
once again sum nicely up to 1.0) Now repeat the process a few thousand
times and some chaos-like (highly dependent on initial occurrences)
distribution of hits per point will result.

>From this thought experiment completely different statistical
evaluations follow than those from f.e. a static analysis of web
traffic, because the *evaluation function* itself changes as a result
of previous hits. This calls for a different kind of view than mere
static statistical evaluation, it calls for more active anticipating
what direction one wants to go because of the importance of initial
conditions. To see an example of what I mean visit f.e. the home of
the Rubik's cube.

http://www.rubiks.com/

There's just business advertisement there, nothing else, it's dead as
a dodo, or should I say parrot? 

Anton



From rnia at algonet.se  Tue Sep 30 11:09:47 2003
From: rnia at algonet.se (.r!kard)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:09:47 +0200
Subject: intercepting smtp email
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj6j3dv1di62b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <blc6f3$3si$1@green.tninet.se>

Now you got me corious, is that possible in python?
Possibly by extending it with som C of course...

.r!kard


"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:vnj6j3dv1di62b at news.supernews.com...
>
> ".r!kard" <rnia at algonet.se> wrote in message
> news:blc1kt$ooe$1 at green.tninet.se...
> > I'm no star at this but maybe you can check the code in
> >   http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
> >
> > .r!kard
>
> I think he's asking for a mini-firewall. In other words, is something
> he doesn't know about sending messages on port 25?
>
> John Roth
>
> >
> > "Scott Hathaway" <scott at hcsprogramming.com> wrote in message
> > news:c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2 at posting.google.com...
> > > I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
> > > traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can do
> > > something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
> > > outgoing traffic, specifically.
> > >
> > > Any help is greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Scott
> >
> >
>
>





From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Sep 10 03:12:55 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:12:55 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at
 runtime?
In-Reply-To: <3F5ECDE2.40206@mxm.dk>
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <3F5ECDE2.40206@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <3F5ECEF7.9080409@mxm.dk>

Max M wrote:

> import class1, class2, class3
> 
> def Factory(class_type):
>     if class_type='class1':
>         return class1()
>     elif class_type='class2':
>         return class2()
>     elif class_type='class2':
>         return class3()
> 
> 
> 
> # using the factory
> from Factory import Factory
> myObject = Factory(class2)

That last line should read:

myObject = Factory('class2')

Max M




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Sep  6 13:37:04 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:37:04 +0100
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>
 <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
 <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>
 <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <7xekytkhx0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <$VL+iKAAthW$EwCn@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <7xekytkhx0.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin <http@?.cx>
writes
>Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:
>>     If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
>> if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?
>
>Whaaat??  Where did you hear that the UK has anywhere near as much gun
>violence as the US??  I've always heard it's much lower.  Do you have
>a cite?
>
I believe Paul's right here, these pages may be of interest on UK stats
though they're not uniformly positive

        http://www.sourceuk.net/indexf.html?02937
        http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/01/week_2/9_crime.html

>> For that matter why is it in several other European nations
>> (Netherlands and Switzerland IIRC) where there is a legal
>> requirement for all males over a certain age to be armed (standing
>> militia) that there is so little gun related violence?
>
>Just Switzerland, and those guns are rifles and they take special ammo
>that is issued to you in sealed cans that you keep in your house in
>case you'er called up for service.  It's not a handgun that you can
>easily go mug someone with.  And as someone else put it, it's not your
>gun, it's the government's gun and every so often a government
>inspector comes to your house to make sure you still have the gun and
>ammo and that the ammo cans are still sealed.  I don't know what
>happens to you if they find the ammo they issued you is partly used up
>outside of official exercises, but it can't be anything nice.  It's
>nothing like the US where you can buy as many handguns as you want and
>shoot them whenever you want.

-- 
Robin Becker



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Sep 20 00:53:00 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:53:00 -0700
Subject: py2exe web site
References: <bkgljf$1lglu$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vmnn9deu0p1af2@corp.supernews.com>

> What has happened to the py2exe web site?  I'm getting a 'Cannot find
> server' error when I try to go there.  It was working just the other day
I'm
> pretty sure.
>
> This is the address I have for it...
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
>
> Do I have the wrong somehow?  Thanks!

Starship has been having DNS trouble--again! You can get there with the IP
address:

http://217.160.219.194/

or

http://217.160.219.194/crew/theller/py2exe/

-Mike





From mtadin66 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 18 06:11:23 2003
From: mtadin66 at yahoo.com (Marijan Tadin)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:11:23 +0100
Subject: build python using mingw
References: <bka775$3djvv$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <bkc3p9$b8c$1@ls219.htnet.hr>

AFAIK no, but some people are trying to do so.
Try Google with:

build mingw group:comp.lang.python.*



"Uwe Schmitt" <uwe.schmitt at procoders.net> wrote in message
news:bka775$3djvv$1 at hades.rz.uni-saarland.de...
>
> Hi,
>
> I tried to build python 2.3 on a windows 2k machine using
> mingw. configure works fine, but when compiling
> Module/posixmodule.c I get lots of warnings,
> one is
>      'SIGCHLD undeclared' (first use in this function).
>
> Did anyone suceed in building Python + mingw ?
>
> Greetings, Uwe
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt   http://www.procoders.net
> schmitt at procoders.net      "A service to open source is a service to
mankind."




From jcjouffre at bigfoot.com  Thu Sep 18 09:17:32 2003
From: jcjouffre at bigfoot.com (jcj)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 06:17:32 -0700
Subject: variable to be transmitted from a CGI script to a module
References: <4568052b.0309180125.5fd4919a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4568052b.0309180517.2005f04d@posting.google.com>

as the goal is to pass a parameter to a module, I found a way using
the OS environment :

in the cgi, I do like a putenv :
os.environ['MY_UNIX_VARIABLE'] = 'myvalue'

in the module, I do like a getenv :
MY_PYTHON_VARIABLE = os.environ['MY_UNIX_VARIABLE']



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Sep 27 22:01:04 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:01:04 GMT
Subject: string.rstrip
References: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com>    <m27k40se2s.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <mailman.1064353953.17403.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Ahrdb.10854$541.5520@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Matthew Wilson]
> What would be the best way to strip off the last "_asdf" from
> "asdf_asdf_asdf"?

Hmm, if they are contiguous, how would you know
which one got stripped?   ;-)


Raymond Hettinger






From jallan at smrtytrek.com  Thu Sep 25 14:50:41 2003
From: jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 11:50:41 -0700
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com> <m3fzinp4k0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <299f1138.0309251050.77c86735@posting.google.com>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis) wrote in message news:<m3fzinp4k0.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan) writes:
> 
> > A: No. The UnicodeData.txt file includes all of the 1:1 case mappings,
> > but doesn't include 1:many mappings such as the one needed for
> > uppercasing ?. Since many parsers now expect this file to have at most
> > single characters in the case mapping fields, an additional file
> > (SpecialCasing.txt) was added to provide the 1:many mappings. For more
> > information, see UTR #21- Case Mappings [MD]
> > >>
> > 
> > Python specifications make an implied claim of full support for
> > Unicode and an implied claim that the function upper() uppercases a
> > string properly.
> 
> This is a contradiction: SpecialCasing contains 1:n mappings, whereas
> .upper() can only return a single result. So how do you think
> SpecialCasing should be considered in the implementation of .upper()?

I am not aware that it is philosophically a *necessary* feature of
.upper() that a single character not be replaced by a string of two or
more characters.

One should fix the contradition by either changing the behavior of
.upper() so that it will properly case all strings or documenting
clearly that .upper() does not handle particular kinds of casing. Of
course users often don't read the documentation. :-(

> > Users should not have to know such details. They may wish to know
> > where a particular function does not do what might be expected of it.
> 
> Things are more difficult than they appear to be.

Yes.

Again and again one thinks one has a solution for a problem and then
exceptions turn up.

Again and again one finds things that one's code doesn't handle, often
from failure to analyze fully in the intitial stages and adopting
algorithms that prove insufficient to handle the data found in
reality.

Jim Allan








Jim Allan



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 14:04:44 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:04:44 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:46:11 +0000 (UTC), JCM
<joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:
>
>...
>
>>>>> def Inc(ref p) :
>> ...   p += 1
>> ...
>>>>> x = 1
>>>>> Inc(x)
>>>>> x
>> 2
>
>While I'd not be against some sort of reference-passing mechanism in
>Python, I think this is the wrong way to go--modifiability should be
>evident to the caller.

1.  I pointed out that this is an advantage of the C# system, which I
    was proposing to imitate.

: The C# solution uses a modifier keyword, but that keyword must be
: specified in both the function definition *and* the call. For
: instance...

...

: The rationale for this in C#, I assume, is mostly about clarity and
: maintainability - the caller can't be surprised when value type
: parameters are changed in a function as he had to explicitly allow it.


2.  You quoted the example I labelled as "(roughly) what I'd like to
    be able to do" and ignored the one where I adopted the C#
    approach...

: >>> def Inc(ref p) :
: ...   p += 1
: ...
: >>> x = 1
: >>> Inc(ref x)
: >>> x
: 2

So your criticism is invalid simply because the whole point of my post
was to suggest a scheme where "modifiability should be evident to the
caller".

>  Currently, if you see a call to f(x) you know
>that x cannot be rebound.

And if in some future version of Python the suggestion I made was
implemented, when you see f(x) you will still know that x cannot be
rebound - but when you see f(ref x) you will know that x may well be
rebound.

>  I'd be more in favor of something like:
>
>  >>> def Inc(ref p):
>  ...    p += 1
>  ... 
>  >>> x = 1
>  >>> Inc(x)
>  >>> x
>  1
>  >>> Inc(ref x)
>  >>> x
>  2

I wouldn't want this. To implement it, either a single compiled
version of a function would need to figure out at run time whether the
parameters where by reference or not, or several versions of each
function would have to be compiled into the .pyc file.

Also, I don't really see the benefit. If a function has by-reference
parameters then rebinding those parameters is likely a big part of the
purpose of the function. Supplying a parameter which cannot be rebound
is likely an error caused by someone forgetting to type the 'ref', in
which case they'd equally likely appreciate an error message as
opposed to wierd, hard-to-trace logic errors.




From nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_  Fri Sep 26 15:48:11 2003
From: nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_ (Nicolas Fleury)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:48:11 -0400
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
In-Reply-To: <vn90903l3oe15b@news.supernews.com>
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <bl1iq3$ss$01$1@news.t-online.com> <MI_cb.75294$PD3.4794043@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <vn90903l3oe15b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <%J0db.75339$PD3.4794804@nnrp1.uunet.ca>

John Roth wrote:
> How about:
> 
>     parser.StartElementHandler = (lambda name, attrs:
>         GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs))
> 

That's perfect.  All my incomprehension was because I didn't know a 
one-element tuple is written (x,) and not (x).  Thx

Nicolas




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Sep 22 10:07:01 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 07:07:01 -0700
Subject: Where does sys.path get initialized
In-Reply-To: <qOsbb.42572$xx4.5050233@twister.neo.rr.com>
References: <qOsbb.42572$xx4.5050233@twister.neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f6f0205@nntp0.pdx.net>

mmoum[no-spam-please] wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone tell me where sys.path gets initialized?  I know that I can 
> import sys and then execute sys.path.append(pathname), but I'd prefer 
> not to have to do that everytime I use PythonWin or Idle.  I'm using 
> Python on both Linux and Windows XP, and I suspect the process is 
> different for each.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike
> 
Consider placing a ".pth" file in your python directory.
This should solve your problems in an easily reversible way.





From amk at amk.ca  Sat Sep  6 20:14:15 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 19:14:15 -0500
Subject: Replacing python: in syslog log messages
References: <pan.2003.09.05.20.59.24.934002@doe.com>
Message-ID: <gICcnSMhM-TK5ceiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 21:01:41 GMT, 
	Brian Donovan <john at doe.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know a way to replace the python: in syslog messages?

Call syslog.openlog("jeeves_backup") before logging any messages.

--amk



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 15:06:56 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:06:56 -0500
Subject: Location of bytecode files (pyc)
In-Reply-To: <bj54k9$tpl$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <6f03c4a5.0309021745.3a79d951@posting.google.com>
        <m3ekyyjw0o.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
        <bj54k9$tpl$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <16214.15312.339483.240268@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Bengt,

Thanks for your feedback...

    MvL> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0304.html

    MvL> Comments on the PEP are encouraged: ...

    Bengt> Personally, I am a minimalist when it comes to environment
    Bengt> variables.  IMO that name space has the same problems as any
    Bengt> global namespace, and since a single default set of user's
    Bengt> environment variables tends to presented to most programs s/he
    Bengt> runs from a command window, the name space usage tends towards a
    Bengt> hodgepodge and/or wrapping apps in setup scripts (which can work
    Bengt> fine, but I still don't like it as a standard way to go).

You can set sys.bytecodebase explicitly, though you might have trouble
setting it early enough to push all your .pyc files where you want.  Note
that the patch associated with PEP 304 is written in C (import.c and
sysmodule.c are affected).

    Bengt> Provision for admin/root level config data separate from user
    Bengt> preference and session state type config data should be made as
    Bengt> necessary and desirable, but secondary/user config data search
    Bengt> should be controllable by the primary/root/admin config data
    Bengt> (which e.g. could say to ignore or use
    Bengt> user-controlled/attempted-control environment variables etc.).

Do you want Python to locate and load a config file at startup?  By the time
a config file parser is loaded and sys.bytecodebase set, lots of .pycs may
well have already been generated in the wrong place.  This shouldn't happen
with the patch I created.

    Bengt> This would seem to imply a standard place to look for root/admin
    Bengt> level config data, not directed by env variable. E.g., a
    Bengt> read-only file in the same directory as the python interpreter
    Bengt> executable, with, say, .conf or .cfg appended to the name. *That*
    Bengt> file can then specify how/whether to look for user config stuff
    Bengt> etc., or specify password access to some features, etc. etc., if
    Bengt> we wind up doing restricted exec stuff.

Like I said, lots of other stuff will likely have been imported by the time
you realize your .pyc files belong "over there" instead of where they're
being written, or were you volunteering to write a C version of ConfigParser
which is statically linked into the interpreter? ;-)

Skip




From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Fri Sep 19 06:14:20 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 19 Sep 2003 12:14:20 +0200
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com> <bkc5lv$5c4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <HBF.20030918w8nt@bombur.uio.no> <bkcajh$283$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030919knxr@bombur.uio.no>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> Hallvard B Furuseth <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no> wrote:
> 
>> 'closure' is a much-abused word.
>> This is a closure over foo's x variable:
> 
> How about namespaces?
> (...)

Nice!  Being a Python newbie I needed JCM's explanation to figure out
how it worked, though.  Nothing magic about classes at all...

-- 
Hallvard



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Sep 24 17:48:44 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:48:44 +0200
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FD5@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <bkt3gj$d49$1@sea.gmane.org>

RE: Slicing vs .startswithFacundo Batista wrote:

See PEP 08:
    - Avoid slicing strings when checking for prefixes or suffixes.
      Use startswith() and endswith() instead, since they are faster,
      cleaner and less error prone.  E.g.:
        No:  if foo[:3] == 'bar':
        Yes: if foo.startswith('bar'):
      The exception is if your code must work with Python 1.5.2 (but
      let's hope not!).

the PEP isn't telling the truth:

> python timeit.py -s "s='egg&bacon'" "s[:3] == 'egg'"
100000 loops, best of 3: 4.43 usec per loop

> python timeit.py -s "s='egg&bacon'" "s.startswith('egg')"
100000 loops, best of 3: 7.6 usec per loop

</F>







From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep 30 09:54:57 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:54:57 -0300
Subject: [SOLVED] Re: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <cm1m41-hv6.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
 <m3smmfqa5l.fsf@ieee.org> <cddn41-je7.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <m3ekxypej2.fsf_-_@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

> Jorge Godoy fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 29 September 2003 
> 07:31 pm:
>
>> 
>> This isn't the behaviour I found here on a Linux box. The caller
>> process got 'stuck' and only worked again when the called proccess
>> ended.
>>
>         Strange...

OK... I tracked it down and found the 'P_NOWAIT' didn't work. I
replaced it with '1' (no quotes) and everything went fine on bot OSs.

The error message on Windows helped finding it out (it said that an
integer was expected but I got nothing on Linux). 

>         You might have to explicitly invoke the python executable, and pass 
> /it/ the .py file as the first argument

It ended up like this:

   os.spawnv(1, 'c:/python22/pythonw.exe', ['c:/python22/pythonw.exe', 'another.py', parameter])


This avoided the need for threads on this program, thanks.


Just to make the solution complete, only the 'thread' module worked on
Windows. I couldn't get the 'threading' module to work there.



Thanks for all the help.



See you,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Sun Sep  7 23:52:44 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:52:44 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx>
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <3F5BFD0C.7040901@teksavvy.com>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

>"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote previously:
>|Please could we move this discussion to one of the appropriate lists as
>|well.  I suggest python-marketing to begin with.
>
>A marketing list is just not an appropriate forum for discussing
>redesigning the main python website.  The page www.python.org just
>simply should not be driven primarily, or even significantly, by
>"marketing" issues... it's us developers who use it, in the overwhelming
>majority.
>We developers should not be treated as second class Python users because
>someone got the idea that the page should look like what PHBs expect.
>  
>

Developers will always be first-class Python users; it's a programming 
language, after all. Whether they should be first-class users of 
www.python.org, in my humble opinion, is questionable.

http://dev.python.org/ would fly from my fingers just as quickly as 
http://www.python.org/ . As a past and present Python developer I would 
feel that I had received first-class treatment through such an accord.

I believe that, indeed, the front page ought to be comforting to the 
bosses, pointy-headed and otherwise. They are the least likely to go 
hunting for variants on *.python*.org -- it's www or nothing if you 
haven't got a technical clue. (Of course, http://www.python.com/ is 
going to be their first stop, God help us all!)

And let's face it, eye-candy and smiling faces suggest that there's 
money and savvy behind a thing. They suggest that the owners of the site 
know business, that they bathe regularly and might even own a tie. They 
offer smells of competency, viability and longeivity, and these are good 
smells to offer to decision-makers. They are psychologically inviting 
and reassuring to a larger audience, an audience that doesn't read 
Internet RFCs at bedtime and DTDs in lieu of the morning paper.

A bounty of eye-candy and a lack of content will kill any site, of 
course, but surely the marketing SIG could ensure that never happens.

Will new Python developers be dissuaded some eye-candy on the "main" 
Python portal? Perhaps they will be /distracted/ for a brief moment 
while they are looking for the "Developers" link. Once they know about 
dev.python.org, they may never return to the main portal again. No 
worries there. But they may well be delighted to know that all the 
eye-candy exists, when they try to justify the use of this "unheard-of" 
language to their management team. (If they want to persuade their 
development/engineering team, they can always direct them to 
dev.python.org.)

www.python.org for the suits and dev.python.org for the developers: 
everybody wins. Let Occam's razor cut in favour of those who can follow 
but the simplest technical path.

>On the other hand... it seems like an entirely different site could look
>like that glossy pamphlet.  Maybe something like:
>
>    http://python-business.com/
>
>Or even:
>
>    http://enterprise.python.com/
>  
>

Again, nice idea, but the bosses will never find it unless you type in 
the URL for them yourself.

Marketing-sig: For my part, I hereby grant you full privilege to do 
whatever you want with the Python home page. Give me a dev site, and a 
Python installation, and I can move the world; let the others surf where 
they may.

Yours,

-- Graham

P.S. Not in reply to you, Lulu, but I *do* think they should offer a 
boxed Python set: bundle a Python 2.3 development environment on a 
CD-ROM for $299; put the standard library on another, for an extra $299. 
Put in a nice pamphlet and a registration card, maybe a mouse pad with 
the new "fingerprint logo" on it. Put some copper in the PSF's coffers, 
and help the suits feel what we already know: that Python is so good, 
it's worth paying for. My boss would buy two of 'em, after seeing what 
Python has done for us!







From fuerte at sci.fi  Fri Sep 12 00:56:55 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:56:55 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911142317.02b88640@telecommunity.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com>
Message-ID: <3F615217.8060106@sci.fi>

Phillip J. Eby wrote:

> Please do not CC: my mail to Python-Dev again; I intentionally did not 
> include python-dev on my CC: because it was asked that we move this 
> thread elsewhere.
>
> At 10:16 PM 9/11/03 +0300, Harri Pesonen wrote:
>
>> Phillip J. Eby wrote:
>>
>>> At 08:47 PM 9/11/03 +0300, Harri Pesonen wrote:
>>>
>>>> But my basic message is this: Python needs to be made thread safe. 
>>>> Making the individual interpreters thread safe is trivial, and 
>>>> benefits many people, and is a necessary first step;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's far from trivial - you're talking about invalidating every 
>>> piece of C code written for Python over a multi-year people by 
>>> dozens upon dozens of extension authors.
>>
>>
>> The change is trivial in Python C API. I already said that it would 
>> break everything outside the Python distribution, but the change in 
>> other applications is also trivial.
>
>
> How do you propose that C code called *from* Python *receive* the 
> threadstate pointer? 

Exactly like that. Is there a problem? I'm suggesting that every 
function call gets that pointer, unless the function can get it from 
some other argument, that contains a pointer to it.

>
>>> It doesn't benefit many people: only those using isolated 
>>> interpreters embedded in a multithreaded C program.
>>
>>
>> I don't know how many people are writing threads in Python, either. I 
>> guess that not so many. In my case I only need a thread safe 
>> interpreter, I don't create threads in Python code. So just having 
>> what I described would be enough for me: no need for global 
>> interpreter lock, and Python would be really multithreading. It would 
>> benefit many people, I'm sure.
>
>
> Obviously, it's enough for you, or you wouldn't be proposing it.  What 
> does it do for me?  Nothing whatsoever, except add needless overhead 
> and make me rewrite every C extension I've ever written for Python.  
> So, by and large, you're not going to get much support for your change 
> from Python developers, especially those who write C extensions, or 
> depend on extensions written by others. 

Probably. That's why I'm thinking now that the language should be called 
something else, like MPython for "multi-threading Python". It would be 
99% compatible with the existing Python syntax, but have different 
internals.

>
>> Yes, I'm aware of the None problem at least (only one instance of 
>> it). Please enlighten me about the other critical sections? Object 
>> allocation/freeing?
>
>
> Data structure manipulations, e.g. all use of dictionaries.  Python 
> spends most of its time doing dictionary lookups or modifications, all 
> of which need to be protected. 

After sleeping over night, I think that I got it. :-) The simple 
solution is, that each thread created in Python gets its own independent 
interpreter state as well. And there could be a separate thread-global 
interpreter state for shared memory access. Access to this global state 
would always be synchronized. There could even be multiple named global 
states, so that the thread interlocking could be minimized. The python 
syntax for creating objects in this global state should be invented:

synchronize a = "abcd"

Also when creating the new thread, it's arguments would be copied from 
the creating state to the new state.

What does it sound? Of course it would be incompatible with the current 
threading system in Python, but it would be totally multithreading, no 
global interpreter lock needed. It would be faster than current Python, 
there would be no need to free or acquire the lock when calling OS 
functions, and no need to check how many byte codes have been processed, 
etc.

>
>>> I'm guessing you haven't done much writing of C extensions for 
>>> Python (or Python core C), or else you'd realize why trying to make 
>>> INCREF/DECREF threadsafe would absolutely decimate performance.
>>> Reference count updates happen *way* too often in normal code flow.
>>
>> I also knew that already. But how else can you do it?
>
>
> The way it's done now!  :) 

I understand why the current Python works like it does. But I think that 
it's time for the next generation. If you don't do it, and I have no 
time now to do it, I'm still sure that this is done at some point, 
rather sooner than later.

>
>> Of course, changing Python to not have a single None would help a 
>> lot. Or, perhaps it could have a single None, but in case of None, 
>> the reference count would have no meaning, it would never be 
>> deallocated, because it would be checked in code. Maybe it does it 
>> already, I don't know.
>
>
> I really don't mean to be rude (another reason I'm writing this to you 
> privately), but this paragraph shows you are *really* new to Python 
> both at the level of coding in Python and coding with Python's C API.  
> I wish I could explain in detail why, but there's really far too much 
> that you don't understand and it would take me too long.  I will 
> attempt to summarize a very few points, however: first, identity 
> (pointer comparison) is a part of the Python language, so you can't 
> have multiple None instances any more than you can have more than one 
> value be NULL in C.  Second, at the C level, all Python objects 
> (including None) have an absolutely uniform API, so having refcount 
> behavior be different for different kinds of objects is not at all 
> practical.  Third, if you had more than one Py_None at the C level, 
> you'd either have to make Py_None a macro, or rewrite all the C.  If 
> you don't think that's a problem, you have absolutely no idea how much 
> C code out there is written to the Python API. 

Yes, Py_None would be a macro. All access to interpreter state would go 
through the interpreter state pointer that is always in stack, the first 
argument each C API function gets. That pointer should be named so that 
the macros will always work ("tState", for example, so that Py_None 
macro would expand to tState->mPy_None, for example).

>
>> I'm also wondering why this problem has not been addressed before?
>
>
> It has; the cure is worse than the disease.  A few years ago, somebody 
> wrote a "free-threading" version of Python, which locked individual 
> data objects rather than use the global interpreter lock.  The 
> performance for single-threaded programs was abominable, and the 
> performance gain even on multiprocessor machines was not thought worth 
> the cost.  So the project was scrapped. 

There would be no locking in my proposal, except when accessing the 
shared memory global thread state.

I don't know, I got mail about writing a PEP. It is clear that it would 
not be accepted, because it would break the existing API. The change is 
so big that I think that it has to be called a different language.

This is the last message I will make about this matter (before actually 
starting to code it), so I'm posting this to python-list as well, 
because this is too important to be ignored. Python *needs* to be 
free-threading...

Harri






From pweldon at mindspring.com  Sat Sep 20 15:38:26 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:38:26 GMT
Subject: spam killing with poplib
References: <pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <S02bb.43098$NM1.7449@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

At best that will identify less than a third of the messages produced by
this worm.  A permutating and mutating bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' message
carrying the infection package is more common than the HTML message.  Either
type is over 100 KBytes, and will quickly clog a mailbox.

Expect the HTML message body, FROM and SUBJECT  to mutate also.

Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com

"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409 at webone.com.au...
>
> This was so easy :)
>
> Simon Burton.
>
>
> #!/usr/bin/env  python
>
> import sys
> from time import sleep
> from poplib import *
>
> canit = """Newest Internet Critical Pack
> New Internet Upgrade
> Message: User unknown
> Last Net Critical Patch
> last pack
> error notice
> Failure Advice
> failure message
> Bug Message
> Newest Internet Critical Pack
> Advice
> last net security pack
> Latest Microsoft Security Upgrade
> Latest Upgrade
> Last Network Critical Update
> Current Net Security Pack
> new net pack
> Last Network Security Pack
> Security Pack
> Security Update
> Critical Upgrade
> Undelivered Message
> Security Upgrade
> Net Update
> security pack
> Bug Letter
> Network Pack
> New Net Update
> """.split("\n")[:-1]
> #print canit
> #sys.exit(0)
>
>
> def doit():
>   mbox = POP3( "pop.webone.com.au" )
>
>   mbox.user( "XXX" )
>   mbox.pass_( "XXX" )
>
>   stat = mbox.stat()
>   print "stat",stat
>
>   ilist = mbox.list()
>   olist = []
>   for info in ilist[1]:
>     info = str.split( info )
>     i, sz = int(info[0]), int(info[1])
>     spam = 0
>     print "msg #%.3d\t%d"%( i, sz )
>     header = mbox.top( i, 0 )[1]
>     subject = ""
>     sender = ""
>     for line in header:
>       #print "\t",line
>       if line.startswith( "From:" ):
>         sender = line
>       if line.startswith( "Subject:" ):
>         subject = line
>       if line.startswith( "SUBJECT:" ):
>         subject = line
>       if line.startswith( "X-Spam-Level" ):
>         spam = line.count( "*" )
>     if subject:
>       print "  "+subject
>     if sender:
>       print "  ", sender
>     print "  spam", spam
>     sz_chk = 140000<sz<170000 # check for this size range
>     if sz_chk:
>       print "  sz_chk"
>       spam += 1
>     for can in canit:
>       if subject.count(can):
>         print "  can it: '%s'"%can
>         spam += 1
>     print "  spam", spam
>     if spam > 2: # life is harsh
>       print "  dele"
>       #mbox.dele( i ) # uncomment when you are ready
>
>   print "quit"
>   mbox.quit()
>
>
> while 1:
>   print
>   doit()
>   sleep(90)
>





From wtrenker at shaw.ca  Wed Sep 17 18:00:30 2003
From: wtrenker at shaw.ca (William Trenker)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:00:30 +0000
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
In-Reply-To: <3F68AFA5.5080102@mxm.dk>
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>
 <Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75> <3F68AFA5.5080102@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <20030917220030.7d8a3022.wtrenker@shaw.ca>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:01:57 +0200
Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote regarding Re: replace %(word) in a string:

> class Wrapper:
> 
>      def __getitem__(self, key):
>           return locals().get(key, globals[key])

Shouldn't that be:
            return locals().get(key, globals()[key])
                                            ^^

Cheers,
Bill




From grey at despair.dmiyu.org  Sat Sep  6 03:43:06 2003
From: grey at despair.dmiyu.org (Steve Lamb)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 07:43:06 -0000
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>

On 2003-08-28, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
> As for homicide, well, you're far more likely to be either a victim or a
> killer.  If you are armed, it is quite possible that an angry loved one
> would have access to that gun.... and no doubt regret shooting you after
> his/her anger cooled.  And should you be mugged on the street by a
> stranger, your chance of walking away dead (rather than just with less
> money), are MANY times higher if you pull a gun on your assailant.

    If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?  For that matter
why is it in several other European nations (Netherlands and Switzerland
IIRC) where there is a legal requirement for all males over a certain
age to be armed (standing militia) that there is so little gun related
violence?

    When are people going to learn, it ain't the guns, its the education
and attitude surrounding them.  It isn't guns that are the problem, it's
ignorance of guns thats the problem.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
       PGP Key: 8B6E99C5       | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 11 20:25:30 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:25:30 GMT
Subject: mod_python installation
References: <kue1mv4fer2lncl8r17q2vmhi30drvme2k@4ax.com> <ss38b.700$8g2.400@news1.central.cox.net> <1el1mvophomd4t0hh5ckci0t172afk00gu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <_n88b.28358$rb3.1312116@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Thank you for the info. I had the same problem.
M-a-S

"Patrick Useldinger" <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote in message news:1el1mvophomd4t0hh5ckci0t172afk00gu at 4ax.com...
> Just found in the mailing list archives that mod_python 3.0.* is *not*
> Python 2.3 compatible, and that upgrading to Py2.3 should be postponed
> until mod_python 3.1.* is available :-(
>
> -pu
>





From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Thu Sep  4 16:35:17 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 20:35:17 GMT
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
Message-ID: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

I don't know if this is really a Python question of a MySQL question, 
but i am hopen that there is enough overlap that someone can help me ;-)

I have a unit test suite for our server that loads a clean database 
image for many of the tests.  I use

p = os.popen('mysql -u uid -ppassword mydatabase', 'w')
p.write(sql_commands)

to load the database.

While the tests are running, I find that mysql has a growing number of 
"Sleeping" threads in the 'show processlist' table.  Towards the end of 
the test suite, the database loads start to fail with a MySQL error of 
"ERROR 1040: Too many connections".

So my question would be, is there any way to shut down the child process 
so that MySQL notices and cleans up after itself before it runs out of 
threads?

TIA,

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"If we're not careful, we could have a farce on our hands!" 
     - Tom Stoppard, _On The Razzle_



From genetani at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 14 15:33:08 2003
From: genetani at ix.netcom.com (gene tan)
Date: 14 Sep 2003 12:33:08 -0700
Subject: wander'g OT: Oreilly Python CD bookshelf
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <b15d2792.0309040605.4d8e5f21@posting.google.com> <sI16b.28606$R32.850357@news2.tin.it> <mailman.1062795135.22117.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96bad3f3.0309141133.66b94651@posting.google.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1062795135.22117.python-list at python.org>...
> |> yes Safari seems ok , you get a few days for free to browse but it's
> |> not totally free.I think the electronic version should be free.Some
>  

Anyone heard if Oreilly planning to do CD bookshelf?  Any good ways to
apply moral suasion?  I think they have just right amount material:

Prog'g P, 
Learn'g P, 
nutshell
cookbook
Std. Library
Win32.

The perl, network'g & unix CD bookshelves made my life much easier
(til the search function quit working w/JVM 1.4SE)



From br_y at yahoo.de  Tue Sep  9 08:11:33 2003
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:11:33 +0200
Subject: set built-in func_code?
References: <bjk4v2$6iv$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5D9A9E.1000305@ghaering.de> <mailman.1063099392.17355.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjkg28$pi3$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hallo,
I have a program (not written by me :-( ) that loads socalled helpfunctions
and executes that dynamically.
One error message was : ... cant get the func_code of the helpfunctionX.
Which reason this message has, I dont now.
My main problem is, that I dont know what func_code is : a built-in function
or attribute or what ? And why is it used.

>> I want to set the built-in func_code in my function, how can I does
>> this in the correct way?
>
> I don't think that's possible for an existing function object. [...]

Well, maybe I should try before I post:

#v+
 >>> def f(): print 5
...
 >>> def g(): print 6
...
 >>> f.func_code = g.func_code
 >>> f()
6
#v-

By the way, what's about __import__?
I hope it is not so confusing as I feel ...
Birgit





From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 15:40:47 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:40:47 +0200
Subject: Optionmenu.
References: <bj7j47$g5rpn$1@ID-108351.news.uni-berlin.de> <a7a67196.0309041253.7b35e02d@posting.google.com> <bj8ev9$1ei$07$1@news.t-online.com> <bj9naf$fv72p$1@ID-108351.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bjaot1$g2f$05$1@news.t-online.com>

"Thor" <thor__00 at yahoo.com> s
> Thanks. I'll check it today. The purpose was to make a windowd with 2
packed
> frams, one qith 'things, and the other with the typical OK-Cancel buttons,
> and then into the first one, put the widgets in a grid. I'll try to redo
it
> all using just one.
>
You can use Frames. The rule is: Only one kind of geometry manager per
frame.

Kindly
Michael P







From nospam at here.com  Tue Sep  9 15:35:50 2003
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:35:50 +0100
Subject: Image on disabled button
References: <1062436629.69505.0@dyke.uk.clara.net> <cpm7b.930437$3C2.21206984@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <1063135933.53254.0@doris.uk.clara.net>

>
> Do you have a sample bitmap and code snipper (Tcl/Tk or Tkinter) that
> one can repro this with?  There were some fixes that went in for
> compound buttons (those that display both image and text), but I don't
> think anything changed for regular bitmaps.
>

Hi Jeff,

I have done further experiments. The original problem occurred on HP-UX11i.
I cannot reproduce it on Linux (SuSE 8.2).
Both systems were running Tk-Tcl 8.4.4 plus Python 2.3 (both built from
source). It also happens with Tk-Tcl 8.4.3.

However it DOES also occur on Windows 2000, running the standard Python 2.3
installation.

Example code is below.

If I uncomment the Button's width and height options, then the effect is
even more marked (the stipple is even further offset to the northeast).

(From memory) the following options added after creating the root window
prevent the bug occurring on HP-UX11i

self.root.option_add('*background', 'grey75')
self.root.option_add('*disabledBackground', '')

however they do not appear to have any effect on Windows.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
# icon_button.py
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

import Tkinter

class Demo:

    def __init__(self):

        self.root = Tkinter.Tk()

        self.bitmap = Tkinter.BitmapImage(file='square.xbm',
                                          foreground='black')


        self.button = Tkinter.Button(self.root,
                                     image=self.bitmap,
                                     #width=50,
                                     #height=50,
                                     anchor='center')
        self.button.pack(side='top', padx=20, pady=20)

        frame= Tkinter.Frame(self.root)
        frame.pack(side='top', expand=True, fill='both')

        b = Tkinter.Button(frame, text='Disable', command=self.disable)
        b.pack(side='left')

        b = Tkinter.Button(frame, text='Enable', command=self.enable)
        b.pack(side='left')

        b = Tkinter.Button(frame, text='Quit', command=self.quit)
        b.pack(side='left')

        self.root.mainloop()


    def disable(self):

        self.button.configure(state='disabled')


    def enable(self):

        self.button.configure(state='normal')


    def quit(self):

        self.root.quit()



if __name__ == '__main__':

    Demo()


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
square.xbm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

#define square.xbm_width 32
#define square.xbm_height 32
static unsigned char square.xbm_bits[] = {
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff,
   0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff, 0xff};






From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 19 16:50:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:50:50 -0400
Subject: return codes from py2exe python script
References: <867286d8.0309191238.3759638e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6B6C2A.9C9D16A1@engcorp.com>

Tim wrote:
> 
> Does anybody know how to get a return code or any errors from a python
> script that has been made into a exe using py2exe?  Right now when I
> run my script.exe it always returns 0 even if the script fails.

Use sys.exit() with an appropriate return value passed as an argument,
e.g. sys.exit(5).

-Peter



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 18 14:01:20 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:01:20 GMT
Subject: variable to be transmitted from a CGI script to a module
References: <4568052b.0309180125.5fd4919a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Qpmab.5255$9G2.4299@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Read also the thread "How to pass parameter to a module?"
M-a-S

"jcj" <jcjouffre at bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:4568052b.0309180125.5fd4919a at posting.google.com...
> hello,
> is it possible to have something like :
>
> script.cgi
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> # -*-python-*-
> global MY_VARIABLE
> MY_VARIABLE = "myvalue"
> import module1
> module1.my_function()
>
> module1.py
> # -*-python-*-
> global MY_VARIABLE
> if MY_VARIABLE:
>    print 'variable defined'
> else:
>    print 'variable NOT defined'
> def my_function():
>    print 'my_function'
> Jean-Claude





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Sep 21 10:25:38 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:25:38 -0500
Subject: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?)
In-Reply-To: <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20030921142533.GA27403@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 02:10:16PM +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
> Try setting the appropriate locale first:
> 
> import locale
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ("no", None))
> 
> Then for a case-insensitive sort:
> 
> wordlist.sort(locale.strcoll)
> 
> should do (disclaimer: all untested).

If this did work, then you can use the DSU pattern like so:

decorated_wordlist = [(locale.strxfrm(w), w) for w in wordlist]
decorated_wordlist.sort()
wordlist[:] = [i[1] for i in decorated_wordlist]

from "man strxfrm"
DESCRIPTION
       The  strxfrm() function transforms the src string into a form such that
       the result of strcmp() on two strings that have been  transformed with
       strxfrm()  is  the  same  as the result of strcoll() on the two strings
       before their transformation.  The first n characters of the transformed
       string  are  placed  in  dest.  The transformation is based on the pro-
       gram?s current locale for category LC_COLLATE.  (See setlocale(3)).

Jeff




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Sep 14 18:46:54 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:46:54 -0400
Subject: Huh?!?!? What is it that I'm seeing here?
References: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <vm9rvjc6vb7e67@news.supernews.com>

"Don Bruder" <dakidd at sonic.net> wrote in message
news:Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845 at typhoon.sonic.net...

> I'm in the process of trying to convert a Python script/program or
> whatever the favored term is into C and/or C++, and of course, due to my
> unfamiliarity with Python, I'm hitting some stuff that looks to be
> idiomatic, without being able to locate a definition/description of the
> idiom. Most of what I'm messing with seems pretty straightforward - it's
> converting nicely into C++, and with my testing so far, appears to be
> performing properly (albeit somewhat inefficiently, since I haven't done
> any tweaking yet) but one particular construct has me stumped. It looks
> like this:
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>   run(argv[1:])
>
> This (or a markedly similar construct) sits all by its lonesome self at
> the bottom of several of the source files, apparently not part of any
> class or declaration. It seems to be *FAIRLY* common in the group of
> files that make up the program, which makes me think it may be some sort
> of "preprocessor directive" type thing, similar to a C construct that
> would conditionally compile in a "main()" routine if a given symbol
> is/isn't defined. In all cases where this construct appears, there's a
> corresponding "run()" method, which, confusingly, appears to be outside
> the scope of any lexical blocks that I can recognize, so I've got no
> contextual clue there...

What's confusing you is that Python executes the module when it's
first run (or imported.) That means that any code outside of a def
is executed directly, including those last two lines that have
you puzzled.

"__main__" is the name of the module that is executed from the
command line, regardless of what its name was on disk. What
that means is that the if statement will succeed if the module is
run directly from the command line, but will fail if it is imported
from some other module.

HTH

John Roth

>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> -- 
> Don Bruder -  dakidd at sonic.net <--- Preferred Email - unmunged,
SpamAssassinated
> Hate SPAM? See <http://www.spamassassin.org> for some seriously great
info.
> I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose Free Will! - N. Peart
> Fly trap info pages:
<http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/Horses/FlyTrap/index.html>





From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Wed Sep 17 16:36:57 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:36:57 -0500
Subject: needs help in how to translate &#8830
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85FCEA27@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

As a newbie in coding in encoding I need some help from the guru here.
When I get information from a user database (mySQL) I get text that looks like:

(('&#8830Hello World&#8830'),(''))

How can I create this info into a string that looks like:
"Hello World"

Because what I know is that &#8830 stands for the character "

Must be veeeeerrrrryyyy simple, but how?

Thanks,
Vincent




From robin.siebler at palmsource.com  Fri Sep 12 13:04:22 2003
From: robin.siebler at palmsource.com (Robin Siebler)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 10:04:22 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95c29a5e.0309120904.291a25b6@posting.google.com>

I know you can't tell us when this article will appear, but could you
tell us where?

I am currently using PythonWin and would be curious to see what the
alternatives look like, especially Komodo, because it is the only
*reasonably* priced (for a personal license) commercial offering out
there.

I was reading through the thread and I tried to try a couple of the
items mentioned:

1.  SPE - Neither of the download links at blender.projects.org
worked.  I tried sending an e-mail to the author, but I haven't gotten
a response.

2. eric3 - I looked at it, but it has too many prerequistes!  Just
trying to find the right (free) version of QT was a pain.  I never was
able to get everything configured properly.  If the software requires
specific software to work, I think the least the guy could do would be
to give the right links to the required software and maybe a few tips
for getting everything to work properly.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep 30 17:40:53 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 23:40:53 +0200
Subject: PEP-0263 and default encoding
References: <3f782aef-bdbbd6f1-a72a-4a6c-8b23-c4915b89a61f@news.szn.dk>
Message-ID: <m3k77qdkey.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Klaus Alexander Seistrup <rasmus.klump at myorange.dk> writes:

> And while I understand the problem, I cannot fathom why Python
> doesn't simply rely on the encoding I have specified in site.py,
> which then calls sys.setdefaultencoding().

There are several reasons. Procedurally, there was no suggestion to do
so while the PEP was being discussed, and it was posted both to
comp.lang.python and python-dev several times. At the time, the most
common comment was that Python should just reject any user-defined
encoding, and declare that source code files are always UTF-8,
period. The PEP gives some more flexibility over that position.

Methodically, requiring the encoding to be declared in the source code
is a good thing, as it allows to move code around across systems,
which would not be that easy if the source encoding was part of the
Python installation. Explicit is better than implicit.

> Would anyone care to explain why the community has chosen to
> inconvenience the user for each python script with non-ASCII
> characters, rather than using the default encoding given in the
> site.py configuration file?

It is not clear to my why you want that. There are several
possible rationales:

1. You are have problem with existing code, and you are annoyed
   by the warning. Just silence the warning in site.py.

2. You are writing new code, and you are annoyed by the encoding
   declaration. Just save your code as UTF-8, using the UTF-8 BOM.

In neither case, relying on the system default encoding is necessary.

Regards,
Martin



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 02:18:33 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:18:33 +0100
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <vn1uus5a74ce3a@news.supernews.com> <w57cb.1289$RW4.1142@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fdd2nv06mshg144m6bc39cfofe6u4aj1ee@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 02:13:48 GMT, "Andrew Dalke"
<adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>> Frankly, I prefer the notion of a method.
>
>While I don't.

To me, the reason to use a method (or property) is simply that most
types cannot be efficiently 'backwardised'. For instance, iterators in
general would have to be buffered into a list an then the resulting
list iterated backwards. That could be useful, but the overhead is
sufficient that I think explicitly writing 'list (x).backward ()'
rather than 'x.backward ()' would be a good thing.

Having a method (or property) explicitly associates it with the
object/class being handled.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 03:10:34 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 00:10:34 -0700
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <bk2okk$nrhg9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309142310.30c09f9f@posting.google.com>

Dave Kuhlman <dkuhlman at rexx.com> wrote in message news:<bk2okk$nrhg9$1 at ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Tobiah wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> > 
> > 
> > I can't seem to do this in python without gagging:
> > 
> > foo = getmore()
> > while foo:
> > process(foo)
> > foo = getmore()
> 
> Then test your gag reflex on the following:
> 
> while 1:
>     foo = getmore()
>     if not foo:
>         break
>     process(foo)
> 
> Slips down pretty smoothly with me.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Dave

I am alone in feeling some slight unease at the sight of "while 1: ...
break"?  I know this is considered somewhat pythonic, but apart from
the fact that there is only a single assignment statement is there
really any advantage to be gained by doing it this way?  It seems to
be trading one aesthetic disadvantage for another, and imho, a
marginally less legible one.

In terms of pandering to newbies, I think the requirement that loop
conditions be expressions is much more squarely aimed at experienced
programmers, who would otherwise be tempted to write unintelligible
code by placing too much of the programs logic withing the loop
condition.



From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Wed Sep 10 01:23:54 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:23:54 -0400
Subject: os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br>
References: <HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br>
Message-ID: <3F5EB56A.6000806@teksavvy.com>

eduardo.aguiar.developer wrote:

>>
>>> You are wright to mistrust it ;-)
>>> Though 'f in list' looks harmless it itself is o(n) because there 
>>> seems to
>>> be a linear search (This is different whith 'f in dict' of course). 
>>> So your
>>> list comprehension is of o(n*n).
>>>
>>> Kindly
>>> Michael P
>>>     
>>
>> D'oh! Thanks, Michael, I *knew* I'd messed that up...
>> I'll repeat "list searches linear, dict lookups constant..." a hundred
>> times before bed tonight.
>>   
>
>
> I think you got something to repeat
> the night after also :-)
>
> "list searches linear, dict lookups
> log2(n)"
>

I'm willing to be wrong twice, honestly I am! But I'm pretty sure it's 
constant time. B-tree searches are log2(n), but dicts aren't trees.

Can't find a real reference, but the Timbot spoke here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-August/016800.html

If I'm wrong on this one, I'll wear the Python Dunce Cap for a week, 
while repeating my corrected lessons!

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to my repetitions... ;-)

and-if-i'm-wrong-a-third-time-this-week-i'll-eat-the-cap'ly yours,

-- G







From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Sep  4 16:46:38 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:46:38 GMT
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com> <871xuyowxv.fsf@pobox.com> <b15d2792.0309040501.25ea3191@posting.google.com> <3f573bda.396747703@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <b15d2792.0309041230.510fba02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f57a445.423479281@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On 4 Sep 2003 13:30:27 -0700, post400 at prontomail.com (post400)
wrote:

> Prix de vente conseill? au Royaume-Uni* :
>  ?27.42  /  EUR 39,61
> Notre prix :  EUR 39,61

I just checked the UK site and it's 19 pounds or about 30 Euro.
Have you tried buying from Amazon.uk? They presumably ship for
less than the US and the tax problem should be non existent
within the EC..

Just a thought,

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From jacobsmail at gmx.net  Mon Sep 29 14:48:41 2003
From: jacobsmail at gmx.net (Jacob H)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 11:48:41 -0700
Subject: Newbie: Changing a string to a class attribute.
References: <33fbf9ec.0309241210.7acfddb9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <33fbf9ec.0309291048.2e9dcefd@posting.google.com>

Thanks everybody.

getattr(object, method)()

This solution works just fine for me. Incidentally, the reason I can't
just write object.method() is that I'm attempting to implement the
Command design pattern, like so:

class Command:
    def execute(self):
        pass

class ConcreteCommand(Command)
    def __init__(self, receiver, action):
        self.receiver = receiver
        self.action = action

    def execute(self):
        if hasattr(self.receiver, self.action):
            getattr(self.receiver, self.action)()

As can be seen, I needed a way to dynamically execute a given object
method. That's why I had to ask this question in the first place.

Thanks for the help! :)

Jake



From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Tue Sep  9 02:45:47 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:45:47 +0300
Subject: Eureka!
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
 <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
 <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
 <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org>
 <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com> <8LPX/kKkX89D092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <87fzj68nok.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) writes:

> As Dave Brueck noted, the same is true of ANY URL.  I use a few
> redirects on my own website, so just because you think you are going to
> a gnosis.cx address doesn't mean you'll wind up there. 

Yes but with <http://gnosis.cx/voting-project/> or
<http://www.ibm.com/open/> you have some idea who is responsible for
the redirect and can decide if you trust them or not. This is not
the case with <http://tinyurl.com/me86> or <http://tinyurl.com/mp66>.

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep 15 12:05:11 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:05:11 -0500
Subject: unique unions of several dict keys
In-Reply-To: <59256.199.169.240.132.1063641087.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
References: <59256.199.169.240.132.1063641087.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <20030915160511.GM32270@unpythonic.net>

Using python2.3's sets module:
>>> import sets
>>> set = sets.Set
>>> d1 = {1: None, 2: None, 3: None}
>>> d2 = {2: None, 5: None}
>>> s1 = set(d1)
>>> s2 = set(d2)
>>> s1 | s2
Set([1, 2, 3, 5])

Another way, not using sets:
    def all_keys(*dicts):
        ret = {}
        for d in dicts: ret.update(d)
        return ret.keys()

>>> all_keys(d1, d2)
[1, 2, 3, 5]

Jeff




From shalehperry at comcast.net  Thu Sep 11 03:45:48 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:45:48 -0700
Subject: other implementation of time Re: a quick program to download tv listings
In-Reply-To: <1f0bdf30.0309102237.d29f0de@posting.google.com>
References: <1f0bdf30.0309102237.d29f0de@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200309110045.48821.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 23:37, Erik Lechak wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Is there anyone out there that has written anything in python to
> download tv listings (no XML)?
>
> All the tv listing stuff that I can find is way too complex for my
> taste (includes XML overkill or is not in python).  I wrote the test
> program below and it works.  I am just curious if anyone has a more
> robust python implementation before I take the time to add all the
> bells and whistles.
>

web services, SOAP and the like are making XML a part of life, whether we like 
it or not (-:

> Chron is just a class like datetime, but I wrote it to accept just
> about every english way of expressing time.  The important thing is to
> put the epoch time in the URL.
>
> If anyone is interested in Chron, I can post it or send it to them.
>

You should look at mx.DateTime from the egenix folks.  Great set of classes 
with awesome docs (and it is free too).





From achrist at easystreet.com  Sat Sep  6 12:47:03 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:47:03 -0700
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
References: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com>		<vlgs65mifq5i38@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1062788290.24102.python-list@python.org> <3F590B3F.35A7B5E6@easystreet.com> <4K96b.1199$sd5.298934@twister.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F5A0F87.5D5B4A89@easystreet.com>


Jamey Cribbs wrote:
> 
> If you go to http://www.netpromi.com/mojoview.html, you will see some
> screenshots from an app I wrote using PyGTK 2.  I took the screenshots
> while running it under Windows.  You can download the app and run it
> yourself by clicking on the link on the page.  I, too, have enjoyed good
> luck developing PyGTK2 apps under Windows.  It has been very stable and
> responsive for me.


Some people have good luck.  I don't.  I downloded this app and tried
to run one of the samples, and I got a crash on account of the 
unexplained absence of python20.dll from my system.  

Anyone else have any downloadable easy-to-run pygtk2 apps that run
on Windows and show off features and advantages of Gtk?


Al



From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Wed Sep 17 16:06:01 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:06:01 -0500
Subject: None, False, True
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624CAE@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Asun Friere [mailto:afriere at yahoo.co.uk] 
> 
> "Pettersen, Bjorn S" <BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com> 
> > > From: M-a-S [mailto:NO-MAIL at hotmail.com] 
> > > >>> None = 3
> > 
> > you're assigning the value 3 to the name 'None'
> > 
> > > <stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
> > 
> > the compiler warns you that 'None' is a special name that 
> > you probably don't want to rebind.
> > 
> 
> Actually the compiler warns you that 'None' is s special name that you
> probably _didn't_ want to rebind.  But you have.

Well, I'm assuming he did want to when he did it, but that he doesn't
want to after reading the syntax warning... (then again English isn't my
first language <wink>). How about: "the compiler informs you that you've
just rebound the name 'None' which has a high probability of being an
error..."?

> As you can see, the compiler doesn't issue such warnings 
> with regard to 'True' and 'False.'  

Nor any other identifiers...

> Does that explain it?

Sure.. depending on what 'it' is :-)

-- bjorn
(I really should stop reading this Clinton biography <grin>).




From domma at procoders.net  Sun Sep 21 11:09:49 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:09:49 +0200
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bkk1ea$7aj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkkevq$rdj$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:bkk1ea$7aj$04$1 at news.t-online.com...

> So it seems there is *no* way to catch the error.
> I think you should file a bug report.

Where/How do I do that?

Achim





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep  9 11:16:54 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:16:54 -0500
Subject: Eureka!
In-Reply-To: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD4CF8@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD4CF8@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <16221.61158.29994.913891@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Tim> I really like tiny urls (and successfully argued with IT here that
    Tim> they should not be blocked as they are only a redirector). However,
    Tim> I prefer that people (including myself) include both the original
    Tim> URL (which may wrap) and the tiny url in the post.

    Tim> That way people can have much greater confidence in the page that
    Tim> they are going to be redirected to. It's not foolproof, but it's
    Tim> better IMO.

Much greater?

    http://tinyurl.com/161
    http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/

If someone is out to deceive you, having them post two URLs isn't going to
deter them. ;-)

Skip




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Sep 20 15:54:10 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:54:10 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3F6CB062.E127F970@engcorp.com>

Gordon Airport wrote:
> 
> Has anyone suggested introducing a mutable string type (yes, of course)
> and distinguishing them from standard strings by the quote type - single
> or double? As far as I know ' and " are currently interchangeable in all
> circumstances (as long as they're paired) so there's no overloading to
> muddy the language. Of course there could be some interesting problems
> with current code that doesn't make a distinction, 

> but it would be dead easy to fix with a search-and-replace. 
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, it definitely would not.  You would also have to account for 
embedded quotation marks that are not escaped already, and I'm 
certain there are other complications.

It might be worth your writing a PEP, however, if only so that the
idea could be killed and buried for good. ;-)

-Peter



From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  3 14:28:57 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 11:28:57 -0700
Subject: Location of bytecode files (pyc)
References: <6f03c4a5.0309021745.3a79d951@posting.google.com> <3f55de7b@shknews01>
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0309031028.3df1711c@posting.google.com>

> If you're on Windows say:
> 
> del /S *.pyc
> 
> to remove all .pyc's from cwd and below.

Yes, and in linux 'find . -name "*.pyc" -exec rm -rf {} \;', but that
is not the point. I did not ask about how to remove pyc files, I asked
about placing them far from source code, in another directory, so they
would not be seen by the backup software.

The backup software runs continuously day, night, weekends, all the
time. Sweeping the pyc's under the carpet each time the backup is
about to be saving my files is impossible. That is why we store all
gcc object files and executables we produce on non-backed up
filesystems by prefixing target filenames in makefiles with a variable
like $OBJECT_DIR and $EXEC_DIR.

We save hundreds of Gigs of disk space this way.

PEP 304 appears to give me what I need.

As Bengt suggest, adding yet another env var to control the operation
of an application polutes the name space for all applications, but
each app only needs to look at the variables it is concerned with.
PYTHONBYTECODEBASE is a cleaner approach that has less overhead than a
configuration file. Also, env variables are directly usable in
makefiles, which makes them very attractive and easy to use for
managing where compiler output goes.

Say you work on multiple projects simultaneously with different
locations for the byte code. The configuration files approach becomes
an administrative burden with conditionals based on the project name
in your config file.

The typical way we handle project specific configurations is through
environment variables that get set in the startup files. Depending on
a PROJECT environment variable, the PYTHONBYTECODEBASE can easily be
set to different directories without creating additional .cfg files.

Regards,
-Rim



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep  8 15:26:19 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:26:19 -0400
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
References: <mailman.1062982932.16437.python-list@python.org> <87fzj7cvbv.fsf@pobox.com> <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw@comcast.com> <bjif13$ou8$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5XmdnSsEgZVGSsGiU-KYvw@comcast.com>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:bjif13$ou8$1 at panix3.panix.com...
> In article <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw at comcast.com>,
> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> >What we were directed to was *not* a mockup (model), but an image
of a
> >mockup.  That mislabeling was a source of misunderstanding which
> >generated part of the criticism.  Please let us keep the useful
> >distinction between a thing and an image of the thing.
>
> And I'll repeat that in addition to Peter's valid point about
differing
> definitions of mockups, Tim was not the person who pointed "us" at
it.

So what?  I neither said nor implied so.  The identity of the original
pointer is irrelevant to the point I made.  And so is repetition of a
correction of an error I did not make.

In any case, Parkin also used (and today defended) the word himself in
his subsequent posts.  Leaving dictionaries aside, the use of the
disputable word 'mockup' instead of the accurate word 'image' lead to
unfulfilled expectations and criticisms based thereon.  Indeed, Parkin
himself deflected such criticisms several times by saying 'its just an
image' [and not the html mockup some thought it was].

Do you really think inexact words that lead to misunderstanding are as
useful as exact words that do not?  Do you really think the
distinction between object and image is useless?  These are the
questions I raised and gave my answer to.

Terry J. Reedy






From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Sep 14 19:32:34 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:32:34 -0400
Subject: Huh?!?!? What is it that I'm seeing here?
In-Reply-To: <Mj59b.21551$dk4.670845@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEDNFOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Don Bruder, wants to know what this does ...]
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>   run(argv[1:])

__name__ is the name of the module, usually derived from the file name after
an import statement.  Python makes up the name '__main__' if a module is run
directly from a command line, though.  So the code in the body of the 'if'
is skipped if the module is imported by some other module, while the code in
the body of the 'if' is executed if the module is run directly.  The idiom
is often used to arrange to run self-test code when the module is run
directly, or to provide a handy cmdline utility related to the module's
purpose.  There's nothing similar in C or C++, as the construct is
triggering off how the module got loaded.





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Sep 23 09:50:30 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:50:30 -0600
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
In-Reply-To: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com>
References: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030923074236.032a25c8@66.28.54.253>

At 09:24 PM 9/22/2003, Roy Smith wrote:

>I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some
>point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost
>certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince
>them otherwise.

So you may need to understand the factors that the powers use to make such 
a decision.
If they are not themselves programmers, they may have a harder time 
understanding language differences.
Are they concerned that there will be other Python programmers available?
Consider asking them on what bases they make these decisions (what needs of 
their's are they meeting by sticking with Perl). Then see if there is a way 
that choosing Python will help meet these needs also or better.
Also be on the alert whether they are acting from a rational place or an 
emotional one. Realize that management usually has to make decisions based 
on incomplete data (for that matter so do we), so there's worry, fear, etc 
operating.
When management gets that you understand their needs, then you are in a 
better position to have your needs and desires heard.

For more on this approach visit www.cnvc.org (Center for Non-Violent 
Communication)
[snip]

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From mahasamatman at nm.ru  Tue Sep  2 04:12:32 2003
From: mahasamatman at nm.ru (Vladimir Ivanov)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:12:32 +0300
Subject: beep is not genrated by python (was Re: just a beep)
In-Reply-To: <bj11dv$rl9$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
References: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <000701c370e7$892ed550$5401a8c0@borg.fielden.com.au> <mailman.1062462663.24438.python-list@python.org> <bj11dv$rl9$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <opruu426mvb9crdb@smtp.nightmail.ru>

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:06:00 +1000, Leo <halloleo.PLEASE at NOSPAM.gmx.net> wrote:

> hi there
>
> neither print chr(7) nor print "\a" works, when you execute the script directly under windows. (and executing under emacs doesn't work either.)
>
> it seems that the beep is not generated by python itself but by the terminal emulation.
>
> so again: is there a more robust and terminal independent way to generate a beep?
>
> cheers, leo
>
> Nick Welch wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 10:17:02AM +1000, DG wrote:
>>
>>> print chr(7)
>>>
>>> :)
>>
>>
>> print "\a" # too
>>
>> :)
>>
>
If You attempt to use your script only under windows you should try this:
 import Winsound
Winsound.Beep(frequency, duration)

 -- best regards
Vladimir Ivanov




From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Tue Sep 16 16:23:41 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:23:41 -0400
Subject: why pass statement?
In-Reply-To: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com>
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F67714D.1010902@zephyrfalcon.org>

M-a-S wrote:

> Why is there the pass statement? I think, the expression statement would be enough:
> 
> class C:
>     None
> 
> while True:
>     None

'pass' is a no-op statement that, according to the tutorial, is used when a 
statement is required syntactically but the program requires no action.

Your code, using None, has the same effect.  However, there's a slight 
difference in the bytecode that is generated:

 >>> def f(): pass
...
 >>> def g(): None
...
 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(f)
   1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
               3 RETURN_VALUE
 >>> dis.dis(g)
   1           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (None)
               3 POP_TOP
               4 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
               7 RETURN_VALUE

This is probably irrelevant, but it wouldn't be correct to say that using pass 
is exactly the same as using None.

HTH,

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 19:55:30 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:55:30 +0100
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <blbupn$pf6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <4i2knv05i07mob7ftsbebg3otigke4rccs@4ax.com>

On 30 Sep 2003 13:00:39 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>If the object is to be able to test primeness of an arbitrary candidate number
>in range(10**8), I think I might just make a bit map of the 10**8 on disk,
>which would only be
> >>> 10**8/8000000.
> 12.5
>megabytes.

If the object was simply to test primeness I would agree, but the
requirement included determining the number of primes below some given
value. It should be easy enough to fix, though - keep a cached count
for every n primes and only redo the count for the last few.


I think bitsets are the way to go for compression. The idea of only
storing every nth prime until you consider how you implement the seive
for the missing primes. You can't just check the interval - you need
to know the primes in earlier intervals to do the seive checks. You
may end up recalculating a lot of the smaller primes again.


It is not too difficult to count the bits in a single integer. One of
my favorite tricks exploits the fact that a single operation on an
integer can be seen as a parallel operation processing 32 or 64 bits
in one go.

Take an integer. Each bit can be considered a count of the number of
bits in that bit position. With a little bit of masking and shifting,
you can get a value where every pair of bits contains the number of
bits that were in that pair of bits in the original. In the 32 bit
case...

  x = (x & 0x55555555) + ((x & 0xAAAAAAAA) >> 1)

Next, get the totals for each group of four bits...

  x = (x & 0x33333333) + ((x & 0xCCCCCCCC) >> 2)

And so on, until the value contains a single total of the number of
bits in the whole original value.

  x = (x & 0x0F0F0F0F) + ((x & 0xF0F0F0F0) >> 2)
  x = (x & 0x00FF00FF) + ((x & 0xFF00FF00) >> 4)
  x = (x & 0x0000FFFF) + ((x & 0xFFFF0000) >> 8)

A simple looping method would need 32 shifts, 32 bitwise ands and an
average of 16 increments. This takes 5 shifts, 10 bitwise ands and 5
additions. Probably a worthwhile gain.



LuLu points out that you can compress the bitset even further by
storing bits only for odd numbers. This compression can be extended by
looking at larger repeating patterns. For example, if we look at a
each value modulo 2*3 = 6, we can exclude multiples of both two and
three from the bitset.

  0 1 2 3 4 5  - value % 6
  * . * . * .  - multiples of two
  * . . * . .  - multiples of three
  * . * * * .  - multiples of two or three

Basically, you only need to store bits where (value % 6) is one of the
values that gets a dot in the bottom line. Then to determine which bit
you need, you set up something like...

  lookup = [None, 0, None, None, None, 1]

  if lookup [value % 6] is None :
    if (value == 2) or (value == 3) :
      value is prime
    else :
      value is not prime
  else
    lookup_bit ((value / 3) + lookup [value % 6])

So you only need to hold one bit in three (those with value % 6 equal
to either 1 or 5) with both 2 and 3 being special-cased.

Use modulo 2*3*5 == 30 and I think the bitset reduces to 8/30 == just
under 27%, which tells me that along with a rapidly increasing
pattern-checking lookup table size you get rapidly decreasing returns.
No way am I going to work out the figures for modulo 2*3*5*7 = 210!

The modulo 6 case is certainly worthwhile, and maybe the module 30 if
you really need those extra few % points (which are still worth a
couple of MB at a guess), but I doubt it's worth going further than
that.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From daniel.rawson.take!this!out! at asml.nl  Thu Sep 18 12:48:03 2003
From: daniel.rawson.take!this!out! at asml.nl (Dan Rawson)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:48:03 -0400
Subject: Forcing getopt to process a specific option first??
Message-ID: <bkcnkd$8ml6$1@ID-122008.news.uni-berlin.de>

Is there any way to force getopt to process one option first??  I'd like to be able to pass in the name of a 
configuration file for my application, then have the remaining command-line parameters over-ride the configuration file 
if they are present.

For the moment, I'm restricted to 2.2 versions.

TIA . . . .

Dan




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep 15 03:50:04 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 09:50:04 +0200
Subject: Expat version in Python 2.3: 1.95.6?
References: <k399b.3456$U41.479@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <m3znh6wkwj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Mike Brown" <mike at REMOVETHIS.skew.org> writes:

> It's really 1.95.6, right?

Right.

Martin



From ads at chead.org  Mon Sep 15 02:00:57 2003
From: ads at chead.org (ads)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:00:57 +0700
Subject: from clipper move to python
Message-ID: <3812075547.20030915130057@chead.org>

Hi Everyone,

I'm starting learning python about 2 weeks, and still have
difficulties to create GUI based application because I never learn
about classes and other OOP things. Does anyone knows how to
create text console application like clipper using python.

Thanks,





From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Sep  1 04:53:32 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:53:32 +0100
Subject: homebrew 2.3 install on RedHat9 not playing nice with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <200309010844.h818irXD025002@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200309010844.h818irXD025002@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200309010953.32852.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Monday 01 September 2003 9:44 am, Anthony Baxter wrote:
> >>> Martin Franklin wrote
> >
> > On way round this little problem would be to build your own Tcl/Tk
> > (thats what I did)  Not only will you get a working Python 2.3 but you
> > get the new options in Tk 8.4 too all for an extra couple of downloads
> > and about 30 mins of 'work'.
>
> Alternatively, use the RPMs I built from
> http://www.interlink.com.au/anthony/tech/rh9-tcltk/
>
> These replace the RH9 Tcl/Tk RPMs with ones that are built from the
> vanilla Tcl/Tk sources; the Redhat breakage is removed. They can just
> be installed with rpm -U tcl*.rpm tk*.rpm
>
> From a brief look at the beta of Redhat 10 that's available, they
> appear to have fixed tcl/tk to work properly again (well, at least
> tcl/tk applications no longer consume tens of megabytes per day).
>
>

Thanks... or I could just read the README!!! and I quote...

Red Hat Linux: Red Hat 9 built Python2.2 in UCS-4 mode and hacked
        Tcl to support it. To compile Python2.3 with Tkinter, you will
        need to pass --enable-unicode=ucs4 flag to ./configure.

Which I did and now _tkinter.so is building  of the box
so in answer to OP read the README;-)


Cheers
Martin










From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Sep  4 19:00:20 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:00:20 -0400
Subject: Comparing objects - is there a maximum object?
References: <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <EQ8V/ks/KvAC089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755 at posting.google.com>,
cbrew at acm.org (Chris Brew) wrote:
> [ ... ]   so I want endmarker to be a generic
>maximum object.

   I've used the following.. a module I call limitcases.py.
It ensures that limit objects compare equal to each other,
and have distinctive hash values, so they work as sort keys
and can be used as dictionary keys.

        Regards.        Mel.


"""limitcases.py
Provides objects which compare less-than and greater-than any other object.
Useful for sentinels, or for initial values in maximum- or minimum-finding
routines.
"""

class Lowest:
    "Instances of Lowest compare < any object except each other."
    def __cmp__ (self, other):
        if isinstance (other, Lowest):
            return 0
        return -1

    def __hash__ (self):
        return id (Lowest)
# class Lowest


class Highest:
    "Instances of Highest compare > any object except each other."
    def __cmp__ (self, other):
        if isinstance (other, Highest):
            return 0
        return 1

    def __hash__ (self):
        return id (Highest)
# class Highest


if __name__ == '__main__':
    print Lowest()
    print Highest()
    print

    # An application can provide its own printable representation.
    Lowest.__str__ = lambda x: "-Infinity"
    Highest.__str__ = lambda x: "+Infinity"

    x = [1, Highest(), 2, Lowest(), 0, Highest(), Lowest()]
    x.sort()
    print 'X = ',
    for v in x:
        print v,
    print
    print
    print'X:', x
    print



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep  1 13:30:29 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 17:30:29 GMT
Subject: Update to Python 2.3 on Red Hat Linux 9
References: <8242f4a7.0308282240.4c87f997@posting.google.com> <m3ptimpoaw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bitni9$icp$0@216.39.172.122> <m3k78tzft2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bitvlv$69t$0@216.39.172.122> <m3he3xkq5s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bivvnl$uim$0@216.39.172.122>

On 01 Sep 2003 07:56:31 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
>> >Can you elaborate? What is this "this" you are referring to?
>> >And what do you mean by "highly automated"?
>> >
>> s/this/finding out all the libraries ... and compiling these for 2.3/
>> 
>> s/highly automated/make -someopts someargs/
>> 
>> or some setup.py stuff? distutils?
>
>Ah... You should perhaps try to build Python yourself some time and
>see how it works. Obtaining all the prerequisites is a gross PITA, as
I haven't built Python on Linux or BSD yet. I have re/built other stuff. Some
things were no-brainers, some not ;-/

>you have to determine what header files and libraries are needed, and
>then determine how your Linux distributor chose to package them - or,
>if you are using a trademark Unix (Solaris, HP-UX), you even might
>have to install (build, configure) the prerequisites.
>
>Once the prerequisites are present, this is highly automated, and
>distutils figures it all out.
>
How about automating the prerequisites part ? Assuming an individual solves the problem
for her/his platform, is there a mechanism for contributing a script that does all the
work [1] (assuming a working core installation with standard libs) of making directories
and gathering 3rd party pieces together from the net and checking versions and dates
and md5's etc. and building and installing it?

[1] Of course, you'd want to read such a script carefully and/or check md5's against
a trusted recommendation post, etc. before running it ;-)

[1a] BTW, how would you name such a script, assuming it is doing the job for some app xxx version
yyy for platform zzz?
[1b] Is there a budding collection somewhere already? On python.org?

Note that this is a little different from contributing back an enhanced setup.py to
a 3rd party product author, though not mutually exclusive (and courtesy would demand
some attempt at coordination, even if no permission issues exist). IOW, porting scripts
could happen even if the author was too busy to update his/her site's distutil stuff.

>> E.g., for 2.2 I recompiled PIL and zlib from sources on windows, and
>> if there was a precanned deal, I missed it & re-invented just enough
>> to get by ;-/
>
>Windows is a different story entirely. You read and follow the
>instructions in PCBuild/README, that's it.
>
Yes -- for the core distribution, using MSVC++6.0 (nice job, Tim et al ;-)
-- but beyond that (3rd party) ISTM more like a porting job than config and install.
(I'm sure YMMV by platform).

So I am wondering if there could be porting scripts in the future, downloadable
from python.org, so that getting most of the desirable 3rd party stuff and/or upgrading
them would be a one-stop shopping experience (not that it all should be hosted on python.org,
just trusted scripts for getting the pieces from their sources and doing the builds and installs).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep 25 22:05:50 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:05:50 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path  separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064540736.16016.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2aNcb.3620$RW4.1866@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Bob Gailer:
> Good question. Certainly later than:
>
> Microsoft Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2000 Microsoft Corp.
>
> C:\>cd /samis
> The syntax of the command is incorrect.

The shell is parsing the line and interprets the "/" as a
command-line flag,  Try a relative path, like

  cd ./samis

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 24 15:26:07 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:26:07 +0200
Subject: Others constructors...
References: <mailman.1064425478.9477.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bksr6n$3jl$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Batista, Facundo wrote:

> Studying the module datetime, found that you can create a date instance
> like:
> 
> mydate = datetime.date(2003, 9, 15)
> 
> but also you have others constructors. For example:
> 
> mydate = datetime.date.today()
> 
> How is this trick implemented in Python? (think the module is in C or
> something, didn?t found a datetime.py).
> 

In addition to staticmethod, classmethod is also nice, as it can cope with
inheritance:

class Date:
    def __init__(self, y, m, d):
        self.ymd = y, m, d
    def firstOfMonth(cls, y, m):
        return cls(y, m, 1)
    firstOfMonth = classmethod(firstOfMonth)

class PrintableDate(Date):
    def __str__(self):
        return "%04d-%02d-%02d" % self.ymd


print Date.firstOfMonth(1900, 1) # <__main__.Date instance at 0x402c36ec>
print PrintableDate.firstOfMonth(1900, 1) # 1900-01-01

Peter



From rhunter007 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 16 16:31:39 2003
From: rhunter007 at yahoo.com (Rob Hunter)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:31:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <D2D0E790-E883-11D7-973E-003065F081D2@actrix.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20030916203139.57854.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com>

> Compare:
> 
> >>> def foo():
>    ...    print x
>    ...    # x = 42  # commented out
>    ...    print x
>    ...
> >>> x = 7
> >>> foo()
>    7
>    7
> >>> x = 10
> >>> foo()
>    10
>    10
> 
> Versus:
> 
> >>> def foo():
>    ...    print x
>    ...    x = 42
>    ...    print x
>    ...
> >>> x = 7
> >>> foo()
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>      File "<stdin>", line 2, in foo
>    UnboundLocalError: local variable 'x'
> referenced before assignment
> 
> 
> Your
> 
>    (define (foo)
>      (print x)
>      (let ((x 42))
>        (print x)))
> 
> interpretation can't explain that result -- if
> the LET comes *after*
> the first print, the first print would print
> the value in the original
> (global) binding, and you'd see
> 
> >>> foo()
>    7
>    42
> 
> rather than an error.
> 
> 


I'm quite confused now. :)  Actually, I
understand (I think) the examples you gave me,
but I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth: you
know, that "assignment is really nasty" taste.

Rob

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Sep  6 17:56:48 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 21:56:48 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <3f59014d$0$152$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli387c9mm140a@news.supernews.com> <3f591d28$0$175$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vli9pochlcoc8e@news.supernews.com> <bjd20a$sf6$0@216.39.172.122> <vlkaqo1rf1nv49@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bjdl70$2d4$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:45:19 -0400, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>news:bjd20a$sf6$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:15:00 -0400, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
>> >news:3f591d28$0$175$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
>> >> In article <vli387c9mm140a at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> So that there's no difference between a function and a method.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Simplicity and orthogonality are good things -- despite what
>> >> >> C++ proponents thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Hence my comment that requiring it is more complex than not
>> >> >> > requiring it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> No, it's more complex the Java/Ruby way, since you have to have
>> >> >> two sets of rules for what a name means depending on whether
>> >> >> you're inside a "normal" function or a method.  In Python
>> >> >> there's just one set of rules -- mostly.
>> >> >
>> >> > As I said earlier, it's quite possible to define it so that there
>> >> > is always an instance of some kind; whether that's an instance
>> >> > a class or the module itself.
>> >>
>> >> I don't follow.  You're talking about defining a keyword that
>> >> always refers to the first parameter passed to a function?  And
>> >> the declared parameters would refer to the 2nd through Nth
>> >> parameters?  What if the keyword isn't used in the function
>> >> definition, then do the delcared parameters refer to the 1st
>> >> through Nth?
>> >
>> >When Python invokes a function, it binds the operands in the
>> >function call to the identifiers named in the function / method
>> >header. If this is a method, it binds the instance (which is not
>> >in the invocation parameter list, btw.) to the first
>> >parameter in the method header.
>> >
>> >If you make "self" a reserved word, then all it has to do
>> >is bind the instance to "self," rather than the first identifier
>> >in the parameter list.
>> >
>> >In current python, there are two classes of functions (module
>> >level and embedded) and three classes of methods (instance,
>> >class and static.) Instance methods get the current instance,
>> >class methods get the class object as the instance, and the other
>> >three categories get nothing.
>> >
>> >As a separate suggestion, I'd have Python bind the module
>> >object to "self" for module functions and static methods. I
>> >haven't figured out what I want done with embedded methods
>> >and unbound methods yet. Notice that this eliminates the
>> >need for the global statement for module functions - all
>> >identifiers are accessible for rebinding through "self."
>> >
>> >> > I think my comments have shown that you can reduce the amount
>> >> > of scoping / name space rules noticably.
>> >>
>> >> Compared to what?  It sure sounds like you're introducing more
>> >> rules than there are now.  How would you propose reducing the
>> >> number of rules?
>> >
>> >If you don't have to write "self" as the first parameter of a method,
>> >that reduces the complexity. Everything else remains the same.
>>
>> Will this still be possible?
>>
>>  >>> def foo(*args): print args
>>  ...
>>  >>> class A(object): pass
>>  ...
>>  >>> class B(A): pass
>>  ...
>>  >>> a = A()
>>  >>> b = B()
>>  >>> A.bar = foo
>>  >>> b.bar('howdy')
>>  (<__main__.B object at 0x00906E70>, 'howdy')
>>  >>> a.bar('howdy')
>>  (<__main__.A object at 0x00907170>, 'howdy')
>>  >>> foo('howdy')
>>  ('howdy',)
>>
>>  >>> A.bar('hello')
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>  TypeError: unbound method foo() must be called with A instance as first
>argument (got str instan
>>  ce instead)
>>  >>> A.__dict__['bar']('hello')
>>  ('hello',)
>>
>> I.e., the method-vs-function distinction is a matter of how you access the
>function dynamically,
>> not how you define it. There is no static distinction in functionality,
>AFAIK (though I guess
>> there could possibly be some speculative optimizations).
>
>It certainly needs to be. One of the reasons I haven't written a PEP is
>that providing an instance to an unbound method is a case I don't have
>a clear and simple answer to at the moment.
>
>>
> (The above doesn't even get into the multiple name issues I alluded to).
>
>I don't think the multiple name issues are relevant - that has to do with
>how the functions/methods are invoked, rather than what's in the header.)
>
I think we may be thinking of different things. Here is an admittedly artificial
example:

 >>> class A(object):
 ...     def foo(a_self, *args):
 ...         class B(object):
 ...             def bar(b_self, *args):
 ...                 return 'This uses\na_self=%r and\nb_self=%r' % (a_self, b_self)
 ...         return B
 ...
 >>> a = A()
 >>> B = a.foo()
 >>> b = B()
 >>> print b.bar()
 This uses
 a_self=<__main__.A object at 0x008F9BF0> and
 b_self=<__main__.B object at 0x008F9FF0>
 >>> b2 = B()
 >>> print b2.bar()
 This uses
 a_self=<__main__.A object at 0x008F9BF0> and
 b_self=<__main__.B object at 0x00903110>

If there were only one "self" keyword to use, you'd have to alias it explicitly
in the outer scope at least (a_self = self before the class B definition in the above).

Hm, I guess that part wouldn't be so bad, actually ;-)

Every function would be an unbound method with a potential undeclared local "self" binding,
and ordinary functions would of course not normally access "self", which would be a local
name error if it did so without a binding (though that brings up another issue: if functions
were to be instances of a function class -- how would you distinguish the function instance
"self" from object instance "self" if the function were playing the function role of a bound method?)

One problem would be breakage in code written with (*args) for parameters, expecting
args[0] to be "self" in bound method context.

For passing an instance to a function to make a bound method call, you wouldn't use
the fist slot in the parameter list, you'd have to use a mechanism like what is already
available, modified to bind to the implicit self instead of the first arg list parameter.
I.e., we now have:

 >>> def foo(x, y): print 'x=%r, y=%r, x*y=%r'%(x,y, x*y)
 ...
 >>> foo(2,3)
 x=2, y=3, x*y=6
 >>> foo(2,'3')
 x=2, y='3', x*y='33'

 >>> bmeth = foo.__get__(2)
 >>> bmeth(7)
 x=2, y=7, x*y=14
 >>> bmeth('7')
 x=2, y='7', x*y='77'

 >>> foo.__get__(5)('X')
 x=5, y='X', x*y='XXXXX'

So presumably foo.__get__(instance)(argx) would be the way to pass an instance to
an unbound method/function defined as, e.g., def foo(x): print 'self=%r, x=%r' % (self, x).

There'd be an awful lot of code to change though ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 28 15:20:01 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 12:20:01 -0700
Subject: overriding  built-ins
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5@posting.google.com>

I really have two related questions.

1) Is it possible (without recompiling and changing the core Python
behavior) to write functions that utilize the same syntax as built-in
functions?  IE, can I create a function that does this:

>>>printCaps "hello"          #note no parentheses
HELLO


2) Is it possible to do this with the built-in keywords themselves, ie
override functions such as print?

thanks in advance -



From lionetti at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Fri Sep 19 17:31:48 2003
From: lionetti at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Fred Lionetti)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:31:48 -0700
Subject: changing environment variables
Message-ID: <bkfsk4$sk9$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Hi all,

I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me how to change an environment
variable from python.  I know you can view variables through os.environ, but
changing the dictionary doesn't seem to change the systmem variable.  Thanks
for the help!

-Fred





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep  5 06:43:06 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 06:43:06 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com>

Michael Peuser wrote:
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > "John J. Lee" wrote:
> > > Don't read it, it's a pile of junk.  :-)  IMNSHO.
> >
> > Are you trying to start the book-burning thread again? :-)
> 
> To my unbiased ;-) opinion it *is* overestimated. But it a good supplement
> to C.P Snow's "Two Culture Theory". It might be disapponting for somone who
> seeks simple help for software development....

Perhaps, but I would have been happier to see a bunch of 
suggestions for Mr. Useldinger to read, without the negative
comments about others' suggestions.  Just doesn't feel right
to me.  Call me mildly ticked, is all.

-Peter



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Sep  5 08:56:16 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:56:16 +0100
Subject: Invisible function attributes
In-Reply-To: <tyfwucno3qg.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com>
 <51809ae4.0309040627.28d7a075@posting.google.com>
 <tyfwucno3qg.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <200309051356.16073.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

> Now there's a good question :-)  I haven't found a use for these
> myself ... but then I haven't looked very hard for one.
>
> Given that function attributes were added to the language (in version
> 2.1 or 2.2 ?), I guess someone felt a need for them, and Guido agreed.

See:-

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0232.html


For further info...







From skip at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 18:36:15 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:36:15 -0500
Subject: Redesign of Python site
In-Reply-To: <bTydnaHj4PWU-caiU-KYvg@comcast.com>
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>
        <bjebpo$h85$1@panix3.panix.com>
        <VlOdnTfgosIdRceiXTWJhg@comcast.com>
        <bjfm7k$fi1$1@panix2.panix.com>
        <bTydnaHj4PWU-caiU-KYvg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <16219.45791.158557.841150@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Terry> Email me a URL of a serious proposal and I will view with IE and
    Terry> reply with comment re readability.  Or just post and let several
    Terry> people test.

The place to follow this activity is on the pydotorg-redesign mailing list.

Skip




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Sep  1 03:53:55 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 00:53:55 -0700
Subject: How to remove a service or change the startup type to disabled
References: <4150f6c8.0308291044.2fb26d32@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0308312353.4bf80b75@posting.google.com>

matthew.rapoport at accenture.com (Matt Rapoport) wrote in message news:<4150f6c8.0308291044.2fb26d32 at posting.google.com>...
> I'd like to programmatically remove a service or change its startup
> type to disabled.  I know how to remove it from the command line but
> is there another way using the win32 extensions?

Three answers:

1) The win32service module has a load of constants 
for this sort of purpose. Do dir (win32service) 
and look for things in capitals. At the moment, 
I'll leave anyone else on the list who's had experience 
of this to answer specifics.

2) Look at:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/115875

3) Use wmi. Get the wmi module from

http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html 

and then do something like this:

<code>

import wmi

c = wmi.WMI () # or c = wmi.WMI ("other_computer")
for service in c.Win32_Service (Name="unuseful_service"):
  service.ChangeStartMode (StartMode="Automatic")
for service in c.Win32_Service (Name="unwanted_service"):
  service.Delete ()

</code>

The loops are just a fudge for the fact the the wmi 
query always returns a list, albeit of length one. You
could equally well do:

service = c.Win32_Service (Name="unuseful_service")[0]

although this has the disadvantage (or, possibly, advantage)
of raising an exception if there is no such service.

TJG



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep 29 10:20:27 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:20:27 +0200
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <C30548A9-F240-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
References: <vndo742ca2f10@corp.supernews.com> <C30548A9-F240-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <20030929142027.GA6750@nl.linux.org>

Rob Hunter wrote:
> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
> 
> One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x == 
> type(2387482734274)) and ...
> 
> but this seems kludgy.  Any better way?

Why do you want to do so? Maybe, it is better in your
case to just run the piece of code using the number, and
if it fails, it fails. However, if you must, you need to
do type(x) is type(1) and ... etc., or isinstance(x, int)
and isinstance(x, float), etc.

Gerrit.

--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com  Thu Sep 18 11:28:36 2003
From: axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com (Axel Straschil)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:28:36 +0200
Subject: How to inheritance overwrite non virtual?
References: <slrnbmjhjr.gud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <bkchst$q0r$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbmjjp4.her.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>

Hi!

> The following will do:
> 
> class Derived(Base):
>     def method(self):
>         return Base.method(self) # call base class method

I tried in my chield-class:
class K2(KObject):
	def bestCaption(self):
		return "Overwritten"
	def bestCaptionlong(self):
		return KObject.bestCaptionlong(self)

The Problem ist inside of KObject.bestCaptionlong(self):
  return self.bestCaption()

The mother-class is calling the method of the child-class, not
it own method. I want the mother-method to be called like "the
chield never was existing", but I find no way.

Anny other idea?

Thank, AXEL.



From posman at eval.ca  Mon Sep 15 11:46:46 2003
From: posman at eval.ca (Paul Osman)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:46:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Multiple instances of modules
In-Reply-To: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
References: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309151145260.32099@kernighan.eval.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Daniel Pryde wrote:

> For example, say I made a CD.py module which held details of an audio
> compact dic (album name, track names, etc..), and wanted my Python
> script to make a record collection using multiple CD's, I can't make
> them seperately. I tried using the 'import module as name' format, but
> any changes made to one instance affects the other. I assume this is
> because Python is simply referencing the one instance of CD.py rather
> than seperate ones. Is there a solution to this that doesn't involve
> using cPython or Jython? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Why not just use a class within the CD module? Then you could create as many
instances of that class as you'd like.

-- 
Paul Osman
paul at eval.ca
http://perl.eval.ca

"Idealists...foolish enough to throw caution
  to the winds...have advanced mankind and have
  enriched the world."
         - Emma Goldman




From kbilsted at hotmail.lala.com  Tue Sep  9 18:13:19 2003
From: kbilsted at hotmail.lala.com (kasper graversen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:13:19 +0200
Subject: virtual inner classes in python?
Message-ID: <opru86ohov5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>

hello there.

I've just started learning python. I see methods are declared virtual by 
default as in Java. Nice. However, the inner class construct seems to be 
even weaker as that of Java. Not nice! :-( Why are inner classes not 
virtual? will they be in a near future? What other language can you 
recomend, if python cannot provide what I need?

My problem is that in the __init__ below, I cannot instantiate "Foo" but 
have to explicate "Test.foo".. secondly, I want to instantiate the "Foo" in 
test2 rather than in tester in the current example..

class Test:
    def __init__(self):
        lala = Test.Foo()
        lala.show()
        class Foo:
        def show(self):
            print "Test.foo.show"


class Test2(Test):
    class Foo:
        def show(self):
            print "Test2.foo.show"


if __name__ == "__main__":
    start = Test2()



hope to hear from you soon ;)

\kasper

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From domma at procoders.net  Thu Sep 25 11:30:10 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:30:10 +0200
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com> <bkumfg$ifj$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bkuoeb$kbt$01$1@news.t-online.com> <bkuu57$pc6$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bkv1lp$9fk$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:bkuu57$pc6$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
> str is essentially a sequence of bytes that can store the same content in
> different ways:

That's clear so far ...

> Of course you could store the file in binary form (not in a memo field) in
> your db and thus bypass all encoding mechanisms, but if you still think
> that a string is a string is a string, you should reread the above or
> go for more detailed information on the matter.

... and that's exactly what I was looking for and what I would expect. My
string is a sequence of bytes, which I want to store in the database. And
exactly that sequence is what I want to have back. The encoding of the data
is stored in an extra column and handling of this information takes place in
another part of the application. But there are poinst where I need the
original data, so it's required for me to save and retrieve the string in
exactly the way I get it from the web.

BTW: How would you save binary data in an Access database? Access knows only
Memo fields or am I wrong?

Achim





From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 16:02:57 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:02:57 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: tooltips (Windows)
References: <lsJ9b.13162$x21.6784@twister.southeast.rr.com> <1063740937.38115.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <R%J9b.13313$x21.162@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Thank you!

"Richard Townsend" <nospam at here.com> wrote in message news:1063740937.38115.0 at doris.uk.clara.net...
> "M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:lsJ9b.13162$x21.6784 at twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > How can I have tooltips for buttons of a toolbar
> > or for control items of a dialog?
> > Does such feature exist at all?
>
> You can use the Pmw.Balloon widget to do this.
>
> For Pmw (Python Mega Widgets), see: http://pmw.sourceforge.net/
>
> John Grayson's book 'Python and Tkinter Programming' (see
> http://www.manning.com/grayson/index.html) has some examples which use it.
>
> The code in the book can be downloaded from
> http://www.manning.com/getpage.html?project=grayson&filename=Source.html
>
> RT





From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep 26 12:40:00 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:40:00 +0200
Subject: Listbox: How do I empty the view in the window
References: <4378fa6f.0309251330.2162e494@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl1q2f$mlh$04$1@news.t-online.com>

"Marc" <mnations at airmail.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4378fa6f.0309251330.2162e494 at posting.google.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I can't figure this out. I want the ability to delete an item in a
> listbox and leave the window area blank, like it is when the listbox
> is first created and nothing selected.
>
> Right now the following is happening. If I simply delete the item in
> the listbox, that item will stay in the view window until another item
> is selected. Or I can select an item in the listbox as active and then
> view it, but I don't want to do that.

Widgets are nor always aware whether their displayed view has been modified.
You can force this by:

  widget.update()

>
> I'm using the listbox to allow a user to either enter or select on
> option. As a result, I need the ability to clear out the window so
> they can type in their own selection.
>
> Can someone tell me how to do this?

Is this another question? Have you considered to use some MPW widget as
ComboBox?

Kindly
MichaelP





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 25 12:43:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:43:03 -0400
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> I and Just canvassed widely at Europython, looking for people to
> suggest more use cases, and nobody came up with anything that stood
> up to examination beyond our basic use case of "debugging possibly
> buggy (nonterminating) code, in cases where we just can't run the
> possibly buggy code in the main thread and delegate a separate
> watchdog thread to the purpose of interrupting the main one" 

[snip Peter's example]

> Yes, yet another subcase of that one and only use case we kept
> coming up with (just like my own immediate application for the
> feature, and Just's, were two other such subcases).  If you can
> come up with use cases that are NOT just restatements of this
> one with fake beards, now THAT would be interesting (and might
> perhaps see the functionality exposed in module threading in
> Python 2.4:-).  

I know this won't meet the standard, but what about a use case
involving "actually running (as opposed to debugging) possibly 
buggy (non-terminating) code".  This could come up in cases such as
our embedded Linux product, which is supposed to be a long-running
process.  

And yes, to make it clear, I am actually suggesting the possibility
that the product could ship with buggy code that could cause that
condition.  It does happen in the real world... more often than 
anybody normally cares to admit.  More often with multi-threaded
applications than is good for anyone, of course.  Sometimes,
nevertheless, an ugly necessity.  Especially when custom digital
hardware is involved, as with embedded systems, and one can't
possibly test for all potential configurations or conditions.

The alternative to attempting to terminate the offending
thread, then restarting it, would be to kill the entire process, 
which has a much more severe and immediate impact in several ways.
For example, startup of the application is on the order of 22 
seconds, and during that time the user sees no response, so a 
restart is definitely a last resort.

It would be "nice" to have the option of attempting to terminate
just the offending thread (based on an internal watchdog feature
which detected the bad condition) and then restart it, allowing the
rest of the application to continue largely unimpeded and not
affecting the user experience as severely.  (To tie this closer
to the actual case: the user can still access the system through
a serial port, but network communications, which is all but 
invisible to the user in this case, might halt briefly as the thread
restarted.)

Yes, I'm reaching somewhat.  Although I actually would like that
feature, even if it were available it would be quite some time 
before implementing it would be high enough on the list of priorities
to bother.  And wait!  It _is_ available, just not directly, so I 
can hardly complain. :-)

Point mostly taken...

-Peter



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Sep 30 17:46:24 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:46:24 +0200
Subject: IDE Python
In-Reply-To: <blcsi4$c2i$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
References: <blcsi4$c2i$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3f79f9b0$0$58706$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

jean.kasapyan wrote:
> Hello,
> I search Python IDE with Code Intellisense

There are various:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments

I've seen PythonWin, Komodo, WingIde.
(but I'm using vim/UltraEdit myself... and sometimes PythonWin.)

But keep in mind that powerful 'intellisense'
is impossible in such a dynamic language as Python...

--Irmen




From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Sep  1 05:24:30 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 11:24:30 +0200
Subject: Celebrity advice (was: Advice to a Junior in High School?)
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <tyfk78z44lo.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch> <2259b0e2.0308272331.55028ae5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1062104951.31312.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfvfsczws1.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:

> Michele Simionato wrote:
> > Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfk78z44lo.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> > > 
> > > One learns so much more from reading opinions opposed to one's own,
> > > than from reading ones with which you agree.
> > 
> > I thought it was worth repeating.
> 
> Of course, this is only true if the other oppinions are based on
> points

Not necessarily. I think that you can learn a lot from reading
opinions opposed to yours, even if those opinions are completely
unfounded. What you learn is of a different nature than what you would
learn if the points had some solid base, however.



From amk at amk.ca  Mon Sep 29 10:42:43 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:42:43 -0500
Subject: asyncore question
References: <Xns93F48D6F052CAstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.75> <mailman.1063370360.32090.python-list@python.org> <p2j9b.3994$U41.2930@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <Xns9405A6A7BD0A1stefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.133>
Message-ID: <R7WdndWUEc1-2eWiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>

On 29 Sep 2003 14:28:47 GMT, 
	St?phane Ninin <stefnin at alussinan.org> wrote:
> should I add it first to the bug [758241],
> or create a patch for it ?

Add it to the bug.

--amk



From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Wed Sep 17 17:12:11 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:12:11 -0500
Subject: needs help in how to translate &#8820; and &#8821;
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C85FCEB35@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Ok, I made a mistake too ... :-(

The text I get from the database has a xml 'look'.

This is how it really looks : 

(('<p>&#8820;Hello World&#8821;</p>'),('Plain text'))

When I look at the client of that database, It tells me "Hello World" and Plain text

So, what encoding is used here? Does someone recognize this?

Vincent


-----Original Message-----
From: Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) 
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 4:37 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: needs help in how to translate &#8830


As a newbie in coding in encoding I need some help from the guru here.
When I get information from a user database (mySQL) I get text that looks like:

(('&#8830Hello World&#8830'),(''))

How can I create this info into a string that looks like:
"Hello World"

Because what I know is that &#8830 stands for the character "

Must be veeeeerrrrryyyy simple, but how?

Thanks,
Vincent

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Sep 10 03:15:07 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:15:07 +0200
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
In-Reply-To: <slrnblsbr3.lsj.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
References: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <pan.2003.09.09.13.16.06.415215@thomas-guettler.de> <slrnblrp9e.i81.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <871xupg5uk.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnblsbr3.lsj.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <3F5ECF7B.5070404@mxm.dk>

Axel Straschil wrote:

> Im programming with Zope/Python/PostgreSQL to produce dynamic content
> for Webpages. I realy was fu**ed up of the whole PHP shit, where content
> and source was sticked together. Zope makes thinks better, but not 
> perfekt.


Have you used the page templates in Zope? They really are a thing of beauty.


regards Max M




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Sep 18 03:07:31 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:07:31 -0700
Subject: Setting environment variables
References: <cscab.12804$g4.258706@news1.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <3F6959B3.6A19FF3B@alcyone.com>

Sami Viitanen wrote:

> Is there any other way to set variables than os.putenv().
> 
> Putenv doesn't actually put any values to actual system variables..
> 
> I'm trying to set CVSEDITOR variable automatically from script
> so that user wouldn't have to set that him/herself. CVS can't use
> variable
> set with putenv().

Yep, and this is a feature, at least in Unix operating systems. 
Subshells cannot directly affect the operating environment of parent
shells, and shouldn't try.  (One can do such things indirectly, but they
require the cooperation of the parent shell, such as sourcing the output
of a program, which is not an uncommon approach to the problem.)  I
don't know if there's any way for Windows applications to affect parent
environments, but I doubt it.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Perfect situations must go wrong
\__/  Florence, _Chess_



From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Fri Sep 12 17:50:53 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:50:53 -0500
Subject: datetime: How to get diff between 2 dates in month units?
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624715@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: python at sarcastic-horse.com [mailto:python at sarcastic-horse.com] 
> 
> Hi-
> 
> 
> I have a lot of monthly time series data.  I need to be able 
> to compare two dates and get the number of months that they are apart.
> 
> The datetime module is a daily-frequency data type.  It has a 
> timedelta
> object that returns the difference in days between two dates:
> 
> >>> d1 = datetime.date(2002,1,1)
> >>> d2 = datetime.date(2001,12,1)
> >>> diff = d1-d2
> >>> diff.days
> 31
> 
> I want to be able to compare monthly-frequency data, so that I can do
> something like this:
> 
> >>>firstdate = newMonthlyDatetime(2002, 5)
> >>>Nov2002 = newMonthlyDatetime(2002, 11)
> >>>diff = Nov2002 - firstdate
> >>>diff.months
> 6
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions about how to do something like this?

No, but I do have one question..: would diff.months be valid given d1
and d2 above (which also contain a day part)?

If so, what would it be given the dates 3/1/2001 - 1/30/2001; i.e. is a
month 1/12 of a year, or until the same day next month (with special
rules for end-of-month)?

If you answer no to the first question then your very close to a (year *
100 + month) representation...

-- bjorn
(time series data is fun ;-)




From rozen at mcn.org  Tue Sep  9 13:38:08 2003
From: rozen at mcn.org (Don Rozenberg)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 10:38:08 -0700
Subject: My future Python IDE article
References: <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c5250694.0309090938.69d7cb15@posting.google.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
> Pythonistas,
> 
> My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
> _Charming Python_ a couple years back.  Now I have another such roundup
> lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.
> 
> In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
> IDE.  I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
> announcements.  But really I just use text editors and command lines.
> 
> Here's the thing:  I probably have room to look at about four different
> tools in one article.  In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
> Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
> in the available words.  I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
> -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.
> 
> So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
> list.  I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
> prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
> copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
> 
> Yours, David...

For a long time, I have been using emacs as my Python IDE and have
found that python-mode can be improved - see
http://page.sourceforge.net/py-mode-ext.html
for my version. Also a straight-forward way of using pdb under emacs,
can be found at http://page.sourceforge.net/tricks.html.  These two
tweeks make a great difference for me.

Am happy to learn about ELSE from these postings, I will give it a try
immediately.



From Huzzah! at Huzzah.com  Tue Sep 16 19:08:07 2003
From: Huzzah! at Huzzah.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:08:07 GMT
Subject: App development for Sharp Zaurus PDA using QTopia?
References: <3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <rJM9b.70632$Mb2.2332293@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

Grant Edwards wrote in article
<3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>:

> I see there's a Python binary package available for the Sharp
> Zaurus PDA.  Has anybody deleloped an app for that platform?
> I'm wondering if the resource requirement of Python are a
> problem on that platform.
> 

There are a few apps written in Python:
http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/search.php?q=python&x=0&y=0

-- 
Todd Stephens
ICQ# 3150790
"A witty saying proves nothing."
                -Voltaire



From llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net  Mon Sep 29 17:19:35 2003
From: llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:19:35 +0200
Subject: append log file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064866420.20978.python-list@python.org>
References: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de> <mailman.1064866420.20978.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bla7s7$gbh$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Gary Herron wrote:

>Well ... A mode of "a" is the correct thing, abd it works just fine
>for me.  So we need to know some other things to solve this problem.
>
>What platform?
>  
>
I am using windows.

>Is the data ascii or binary? (If binary on win32, then you probably
>need mode "ab" or some such)
>  
>
It is just ascii.

>Exactly what do you mean by "messed up"?  
>
The Data in the log file looks like this:
??0/000/000/000/000/000/00?0/00?0/000/000/000/000/000/000/000/000/00?
Instead it should look like this:
1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1

>Gary Herron
>
I am confused.
-Tom
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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep  2 15:11:35 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:11:35 -0500
Subject: **kwds behavior?
In-Reply-To: <3F54CF11.6080904@zephyrfalcon.org>
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com> <3F54CF11.6080904@zephyrfalcon.org>
Message-ID: <20030902191135.GB29526@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 01:10:41PM -0400, Hans Nowak wrote:
> Now, on to the yucky solution:
> 
> >>> def g(**kwargs):
>         for key, value in kwargs.items():
>             exec "%s = %s" % (key, repr(value))
>         # test test...
> 	print x
[...]
Now, you don't need to do that.  This one works:
    def testKeywords5(**kwds):
        exec ""
        locals().update(kwds)
        print x

>>> testKeywords5(x=5)
5

even this variant should work (without actually executing any "exec"
statements):
    def testKeywords6(**kwds):
        locals().update(kwds)
        print x
        return
        exec ""

... but I don't think you can/should depend that either variation works.
The key is that when the compiler sees 'bare exec' it disables an
optimization used to turn local name accesses into fast C-array-based
indexing operations...

I stand by my words that you (the OP) should back up a step and choose a
solution that doesn't have this yucky requirement of locals that aren't
known at bytecompile time.

Jeff




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Sep  2 03:42:48 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:42:48 +0200
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>	<Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162>	<vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com>	<3f533f3d$0$32467$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>	<vl6ichsnqa7dfa@corp.supernews.com>	<3f5357a0$0$32519$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk><E19tqmJ-0005Rv-00@ns.purdue.org> <3F536EF8.7040808@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <bj1hlt$u24$1@sea.gmane.org>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> I needed a quick way to "stat" files via FTP (it's a mirror script that
> synchronizes the maps, etc. on Unreal Tournament 2003 gameservers). As
> ftplib lacks any methods whatsoever to parse the output of the LIST
> command

which isn't that strange, given that the LIST command can output
anything (it's intended for human readers, not computers).

some useful links:

    http://cr.yp.to/ftpparse.html
    http://c0re.jp/c0de/ftpparsemodule/
    http://effbot.org/downloads/#ftpparse

</F>







From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Tue Sep 23 11:08:41 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:08:41 +0200
Subject: Executing a python script from an HTML link?
References: <tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1co0nvk1h60qagov4v60874grijiscvluq@4ax.com>

Andrew Chalk:
>Is this possible? In my CGI app. I display a web page with a link (anchor).
>When the link is clicked I want to exectute a python script rather than go
>to an HTML page.

IIUYC: make the link tot a Python CGI script instead of to an HTML page.

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de  Fri Sep 12 13:36:54 2003
From: martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de (Martin Schneider)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:36:54 +0200
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
References: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063106894.20701.python-list@python.org> <bjkkjp$jvkvt$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <slrnbm3dp0.skp.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <bjsuo7$mrg96$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>

> Also, using a better sort algorithm should improve performance
> dramatically (i.e. compare your code versus the builtin sort() function
> of lists).

I chose a simple bubblesort because I wanted to compare the performance of
handcoded Python with handcoded C. I know that the internal sort() routine
of Python will beat the living daylights out of my bubblesort :-)

Thanks
Martin





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 04:46:09 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:46:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
References: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F762395CAE3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in news:roy-
FFBAC5.22283914092003 at reader2.panix.com:

> My apologies for a somewhat silly posting, but after 6 years of hacking 
> Python, I finally found a use for lambda!  I wanted to write a unit test 
> to prove that a given dictionary does not have a given key.  Since 
> assertRaises requires its second argument to be something callable, 
> instead of writing:
> 
>         self.assertRaises (KeyError, foo['bar'])
> 
> I had to write:
> 
>         self.assertRaises (KeyError, lambda: foo['bar'])
> 

Pretty much the same idea hit me a few weeks ago. Even when the argument is 
callable with arguments, using lambda here makes the test read more clearly 
than you get without.

I think you should submit a change request to the documentation for 
assertRaises/failUnlessRaises that would add another paragraph pointing out 
that using a lambda for the callable expression allows any expression to be 
tested to be written inline.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From sfb at alysseum.com  Mon Sep 22 19:07:05 2003
From: sfb at alysseum.com (Simon Bayling)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:07:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Memory allocation
References: <mailman.1064263836.31956.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93FF131E3EAEk23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>

I don't know about memory usage, but can you use 
>>> hash(pickledItem)

Hashing is a very common way to confirm accuracy in file downloads, for 
instance.

- Simon.

"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in
news:mailman.1064263836.31956.python-list at python.org: 

> #- Can't the object just track changes to itself?  This is a fairly 
> #- common solution to the general problem you describe.  Resorting to
> #- things like checking memory consumption is not likely the best way
> #- to approach this.
> 
> Thought this. But gives me an API not separated from my main code (I
> have to subclass each class from another one).



From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Tue Sep  2 13:14:40 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (ajsiegel at optonline.net)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:14:40 -0400
Subject: artifical intelligence
Message-ID: <5d1ba15d1b52.5d1b525d1ba1@optonline.net>

 >Arthur wrote:
 ...
 >> *Our* intelligence seems to give us a read as to where on the bell curve a
 >> particular event may lie, or a least some sense of when we are at an

>Wrong: human beings are *eager* pattern-matching devices, extremely prone
>to detect "patterns" that just don't exist in statistically significant
>ways. There's quite a substantial body of literature, by now, on the
>general issue of frequent fallacies on reasoning about probabilities.

I can accept a "poorly expressed".  Not sure I can sign onto a "wrong".

True, since there are an infinite number of unlikely things that may occur, it is a sure thing - statistically -  that unlikely things will occur, all the time. And human beings may have a tendency attach significance when seeing such an occurence, in isolation.  False significance.  It doesn't mean that they are wrong in having perceived the coincidence of events -  taken in and of themselves - to have been an actual occurrrence of an "unlikely" occurrence.  That sense that something unlikely has occurred is not wrong.  And it is hard to put a finger on everything that goes into coming to such a conclusion. And therefore, I would presume, difficult to program.

Art



 
 






From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Sep 26 13:59:59 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:59:59 -0400
Subject: PEPs link gone from the Python homepage?
In-Reply-To: <16244.30758.381156.351062@montanaro.dyndns.org> (Skip
 Montanaro's message of "Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:32:22 -0500")
References: <un0crhase.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
	<16244.22946.446379.622160@montanaro.dyndns.org>
	<ur823fqiu.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
	<16244.30758.381156.351062@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <ullsbe8gw.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>  
>     >> If you find stuff in PEPs you believe belongs in the standard
>     >> documentation set, please file a documentation bug report.
>
>     Dave> Oof.  MRO, descriptors, most of PEPs 252 and 253 last time I
>     Dave> checked, just off the top of my head.  Do I you really think it
>     Dave> would make a difference to *formally* point out that many elements
>     Dave> of the basic design of the object model aren't in the docs?
>
> Yes, it would help.  We have people come to python-dev and ask, "How can I
> help?".  It also serves as a reminder to people who can make the change that
> it needs to be addressed.  Without it, I suspect most of us will forget it
> in the next couple of weeks.
>
>     Dave> And, this is not a rhetorical question: how many bug reports would
>     Dave> be appropriate for all of this information?  Some of these PEPs
>     Dave> cover several topics.
>
> I'd just file one having a subject like "migrate PEP content to
> documentation" to start with.  Assign it to me if you feel the urge.  I'm
> pretty sure Fred's swamped.

Done, and thanks.

>     Dave> Sure, I knew that, but while the docs are still incomplete, you
>     Dave> use what you can, and it would be nice to be sure that the
>     Dave> information was readily accessible.
>
> It's still readily accessible, but it's hard to see that "PEPs" should rank
> up there on the front page with more general concepts like "Documentation"
> or "Developers".  Front page real estate is always at a premium.  I think
> it's appropriate that they are referred as they are now.

Yeah, but after the front page I looked under "Documentation" and
didn't find it either.

> On matters such as this, I don't even bother with the website.  My browser
> home page is a bunch (17) of popup menus laid out in a tabular format and a
> few <form>s.  It has two Python-related menus:
>
>     Python                           Python Docs          
>     ------                           -----------                 
>     Python Home Page                 Module Index        
>     Python VM Wiki                   Python PEPs                 
>     Python @ SF                      Python Wiki                 
>     Python Glossary                  Python HOWTOs       
>     Python-Mode @ SF                 C/C++ API           
>     CSV mailing list                 Library Reference   
>     ALF @ SF                         Language Reference  
>     Watch @ SF                       Spambayes archives  
>     Psyco @ SF                       Python-dev archives         
>     Parnassus                        Python-list archives 
>     Skip's Python Bits               Python-help archives 
>
> That way I always know where to get at the stuff I'm interested in and am
> insulated from changes to the link properties of web pages not completely
> under my control.

Setting up infrastructure takes time, though.  That's what sucks about
computers: you gotta spend time to save time :(

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com





From nick.keighley at marconi.com  Wed Sep 24 09:30:05 2003
From: nick.keighley at marconi.com (Nick Keighley)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 06:30:05 -0700
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
References: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com> <bkroq8$8ud$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <8ad2cfb3.0309240530.19029a98@posting.google.com>

Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com> wrote in message news:<bkroq8$8ud$1 at news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>...
> Nick Keighley wrote:

> > I'm probably missing something rather obvious, but is there a known 
> > problem with getting a Python based socket program to communicate with
> > a C based socket program? A simple echo server written in Python
> > (the example from Python in a Nutshell actually) will happily talk
> > to a Python based client. If a C based client is substitued the connection
> > is refused (or so the C client reports). The C client will talk to
> > a C server.
> 
> Communications between C and Python via sockets definetly work: we do that 
> every  day (no kidding ;-)
> 
> Can you post an example of your code?

well I assumed sockets actually worked I was guessing the slight
differences in the interfaces caused me to set the two ends up
slightly
differently.

Python Echo Server
------------------
import socket

DEFAULT_PROTOCOL = 0
PORT = 8702

sock = socket.socket (socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM,
DEFAULT_PROTOCOL)
sock.bind (('', PORT))
sock.listen (5)

# wait for a connection
try:
    while True:
        newSocket, address = sock.accept ()
        print "connected from", address
        while True:
            receivedData = newSocket.recv (8192)
            if not receivedData:
                break
            print "received: ", receivedData
            newSocket.sendall (receivedData)
        newSocket.close()
        print "disconnected from", address
finally:
    sock.close ()
---------------------------------------------------------------------
C echo client (includes omitted)
-------------------------------
#define DEFAULT_PROTOCOL   0
#define PORT 8702
#define HOST "localhost"
/* #define HOST "127.0.0.1"    */
/* #define HOST "cmopc018"  */
#define TYPE SOCK_STREAM


int main (void)
{  
    struct hostent  *phe;
    struct sockaddr_in sin;
    int s;

    s = socket (PF_INET, TYPE, DEFAULT_PROTOCOL);
    if (s < 0)
        raise_report (LEVEL_FATAL, "tiny_echo", "can't create socket:
%s", strerror (errno));


    /*
     * connect to the socket 
     */

    memset (&sin, 0, sizeof sin);
    sin.sin_family = AF_INET;
    sin.sin_port = PORT;
    if ((phe = gethostbyname (HOST)))
    {
        memcpy (&sin.sin_addr, phe->h_addr_list[0], phe->h_length);
    	raise_report (LEVEL_INFO, "tiny_echo", "addr is %X",
sin.sin_addr);
     }
    else
        if ((sin.sin_addr.s_addr = inet_addr (HOST)) == INADDR_NONE)
            raise_report (LEVEL_FATAL, "tiny_echo", "can't get \"%s\"
host entry", HOST);

    if (connect (s, (struct sockaddr *)&sin, sizeof sin) < 0)
        raise_report (LEVEL_FATAL, "tiny_echo", "can't connect to
%s.%d: %s", HOST, sin.sin_port, strerror (errno));

    raise_report (LEVEL_INFO, "tiny_echo", "CONNECTED");

    return 0;
}
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Nick Keighley



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Sep  7 15:02:49 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 21:02:49 +0200
Subject: Question on Standard Types
References: <mailman.1062951612.13844.python-list@python.org> <bjfq8r$lg7$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <m37k4k2zhi.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> >"In Python, standard types are not classes, so creating integers and
> >strings does not involve instantiation".
> 
> Actually, this bit *is* definitely out of date; Python 2.2 introduced
> new-style classes, and all the standard types are now new-style classes.

The statement was always incorrect. The standard types always involved
instantiation, and integers and strings have always been objects, with
a separate identity. Whether or not they had a relation ship <type
'classobj'> is irrelevant for that.

Regards,
Martin



From gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net  Tue Sep  9 16:24:07 2003
From: gafStopSpamData at ziplink.stopallspam.net (Gary Feldman)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:24:07 GMT
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org> <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <3F5E0171.B68BDE2F@engcorp.com> <_WydnXPHCO6oksOiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <3F5E143D.356E8CF1@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1ocslvsomoiap7ccnqfnaugut3t5fkqcgg@4ax.com>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:56:13 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Not that this point is necessarily worth considering, but I note that 
>my brain perceived several of the vertically stacked pairs of links in
>that top navbar _together_, leading to a fraction of a second of confusion.

I agree, but it's worse than that.

First, when you get used to useless banners being topmost on the page, you
tend to skip right over them.  I know I've made many a trip to the Python
site without noticing that there were links up there.  Put the banner
header on top, with the horizontal menu below it.  (Yes, this will
temporarily annoy the folks who are used to the current layout, but no
significant change can avoid all temporary annoyances.)

Second, it's just way too busy and redundant.  It's more thn simply the
vertical alignment; there are too many items in that section.  (Actually,
there are two many static links on the entire page - I counted 45, not
including the announcements).  

The horizontal banner really only needs a handful of items:
    documentation
    downloads
    community
    search (preferably with a quick search box)
    contact us 

"Home" is unnecessary; use the logo in the upper left for home on all pages
(yep, consistent navigation on all pages is a plus).  "Developers" is
ambiguous.  (A newcomer will think it means someone trying to develop with
Python as opposed to maintain Python.)  It's also a sufficiently small
number as to not need top billing - as much as they deserve tons of credit.
Both SIGs and Developers should be subsets of Community (i.e. you there via
the Community link, at least as far as the horizontal navigation bar is
concerned).  Documentation implies Help, and Help implies Documentation, so
we don't need both in the horizontal bar.

The basic point is that the static appearance of the horizontal navigation
bar must be kept short and simple, with no ambiguous choices.  If you want
more choices via popups for the JavaScript browsers that's ok, so long as
the top level items that everyone case see are active links as well (i.e.
it still works with JavaScript disabled).

>(Yeah, I'm really picking nits with this one. :-)

No, you're not picking nits, and that's one of the problems with one school
of old-time engineering mentality.  Namely, the minimalization of usability
issues.  It's ironic that there are foks who might spend a few hours to
squeeze a few milliseconds out of an algorithm, but would dismiss a half
second as a nit, or not important because you can learn to deal with it.
If you stumbled over it, chances are that other people stumbled over it,
and it all adds up.  And humans shouldn't have to learn to deal with
unsatisfactory UIs.

Gary



From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep 30 08:09:24 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:09:24 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <33803989.0309300315.7e132c0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m34qyuqxzf.fsf@ieee.org>

tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka) writes:

> Hello Jorge,

Hi Miki.

>> I have a simple task where I want my GUI to be able to open several
>> applications simultaneously. Using the threading module everything
>> works perfectly on Linux but the program won't run on Windows.
> What do you mean by "won't run"? Does it crash? ...

No. It just hangs. I have to kill it. If it crashed I could try
investigating the reason but the reason of the hangup is a little
harder to find out.

>> Any hints on what should I do? 
>> The working code is really simple and is all what I need on both
>> platforms (pseudo-code follows):
>> [...]
> Just guessing:
> 1. The spawnl of a .py don't work. You need to start the python interpreter
>    on the .py file

This is what I found out using the 'thread' module. I'll change the
code so that it checks the OS and take the action based on that
answer, but it really annoyed me using threads there.

BTW, the 'threading' module didn't work whie the 'thread' did. I dunno
the inner details of implementation, but it might give a hint on the
problem... (Just guessing)

> 2. The GUI toolkit you're using is causing the problem. To check this try
>    lauch threads without any gui and see if it works.

I't worked with one example I found on the net while trying to find an
answer, but it hang with another. The one that hung was just making 4
threads and measuring the time each of them 'sleep()'ed and summing it
all on the main thread. It worked perfectly here (Linux), but not
there (Windows XP).

> HTH.
> Miki


Thanks Miki.

-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl  Thu Sep 11 07:33:38 2003
From: gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl (Grzegorz Staniak)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:33:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbm0nci.d9.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>

John Roth writes:

>> I'm a newbie Python user, a systems administrator - I've been trying
>> to switch from Perl to Python for administrative tasks - and one thing
>> I cannot understand so far is why I need the special 'self' (or anything
>> esle) argument in class method definitions. I might have missed an
>> explanation in the docs, a quick Google search did not help. Is there
>> somewhere on the web you could direct me to?
> 
> It's in the FAQ somewhere.
> 
> Technically, it would be possible to make "self" a reserved
> word, and not have to put it in the method declaration. However,
> there are a lot of people who use something other than the
> word "self," so that would break existing code.
> 
> John Roth

I'd like to thank you and all those who answered here and in private
e-mails. It wasn't my intention to start a 50-postings debate ;)

To sum up what I've learnt here and from the FAQ: 'self' could actually be 
any string (it is 'self' by convention), as its role is only to serve as 
the first argument of methods in order to facilitate the process of
associating method calls with their context. It would be possible (even if
not obviously desirable) to implement method definitions in such a way
as to avoid the first argument completely, i.e.

	def something():
		...

so actually it's just a question of implementation. Having little
experience with object-oriented programming, I won't try to relate to
pro and contra arguments that have been given in the discussion, I just
have one more question: isn't it a little superfulous to have to use the
'classmethod()' builtin to declare class methods? I'd think giving a
class object name as the first argument should suffice?

Thanks,

-- 
Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at zagiel.com.pl>



From roy at panix.com  Mon Sep 22 23:24:21 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:24:21 -0400
Subject: Need arguments for "Python vs. Perl as an OOPL"
Message-ID: <roy-002696.23242122092003@reader2.panix.com>

I'm working on a prototype of a new application in Python.  At some 
point, if this ever turns into a product, the powers that be will almost 
certainly demand that it be done in Perl.  My job will be to convince 
them otherwise.

The basic design of the application is object oriented.  I've never used 
Perl's OO features, so I'm not in a good position to make a comparison 
of the two languages from an OO point of view.  Can somebody who's done 
OOP in both Python and Perl help me out?

I certainly know why Perl sucks in general, but for this purpose, I need 
to specifically compare the OO features of the two.  I'm looking for 
something more fundamental than "->{} is ugly".



From jboti at integrasoft.ro  Fri Sep 12 07:20:43 2003
From: jboti at integrasoft.ro (Jozsa Boti)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:20:43 +0300
Subject: python program not running from different folders
Message-ID: <001701c3791f$e80fea10$3aa2e7c1@integrasoft.ro>

Hi!

I have a strange problem: I wrote a program in python, and I get an error: ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initESSClientAPI) but only if I run the program in certain folders. The same program runs without any error from other folders. Any ideas?

Thanks
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From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 22:00:27 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 19:00:27 -0700
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no>	<bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com>	<299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com>	<bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com>	<38ec68a6.0309212224.1ca9edeb@posting.google.com> <mailman.1064213550.26639.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309221800.14433922@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1064213550.26639.python-list at python.org>...

> PS: I was quite disappointed with the reform of German ortography. I'd 
> have favoured much more radical steps, like elimination of 
> capitalization of the noun.

As an English speaker, who occasionally finds himself trying to
decipher German text, let me tell you that little flags like that 
--"pick me!  I'm a noun!" --are actually quite useful.



From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Wed Sep 17 02:43:09 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 02:43:09 -0400
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
Message-ID: <000701c37ce6$f5af8930$0c02a8c0@Arts>

Ron asks -

>Any other ideas would be appreciated. Meanwhile, I would be interested
>if anyone would offer thoughts on which of the 5 directions for future
>activity sound most interesting.

Sorry Ron.

Can you remind me what the connection to CP4E is, and why you are headlining
that slogan in connection with your work.

You, as did I with my own project, with sustained effort over a three year
period -  starting, let's say from scratch - produced something of which
each of us can hopefully be rightfully proud.

Three years of sustained effort.

But we seemed to have taken away different lessons.

My expereince led me to look upon the CP4E slogan quite askance.  Yours,
apparently, allowed you to embrace it.

It seems to me "everybody" who's imagination is ignited by something to the
extent that it carries them through 3 years of sustained effort can expect
to be doing "computer programming" somewhere along that line.

Not very surprising, really.

No slogans helped me along - that I do know.

It was three years of sustained effort.

For everybody?

Are we *required* to embrace that notion?

Yes everybody  - let's say - has that potential. But that was true before
Python came along.

For some - like myself - Python was a real factor in helping realize that
potential. I am a raving fan, in fact.

But I do not discount my 3 years of sustained effort as anything less than 3
years of sustained effort, and seem to  think that that was a bit of factor,
as well.

And would love to see the CP4E slogan go away now, peacefully and happily.

Art





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Sep 21 17:36:09 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:36:09 -0700
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com> <bkc5lv$5c4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <HBF.20030918w8nt@bombur.uio.no> <bkcbdu$l0c$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <HBF.200309217by@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <eppstein-6AD7B9.14360921092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <HBF.200309217by at bombur.uio.no>,
 Hallvard B Furuseth <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no> wrote:

> JCM wrote:
> >   >>> def foo():
> >   ...   x = [3]
> >   ...   def bar():
> >   ...     x[0] += 1
> >   (...)
> > 
> > This is actually one of my biggest complaints about Python.  I'd like
> > syntactic disambiguation between definition and assignment in order to
> > have control over which scope you're assigning into.
> 
> Maybe Python could be changed to let 'foo.x' inside function foo mean
> the x variable in foo?

But the x variable does not live on the foo function object, it lives on 
the stack frame created by the current call to foo.

So something more indirect, like scope(foo).x, would make more sense, 
where scope() inspects the call stack looking for calls to foo and 
returns an object with appropriate __getattr__ and __setattr__ methods.  
This may be implementable now, by someone who knows more about python 
introspection than I do.  I tried doing it with inspect.stack, but it 
doesn't work -- I can find the right frame and get it's f_locals 
dictionary, but this gives read-only access to the true frame's locals.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 09:19:36 2003
From: messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com (ataraxia2500)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:19:36 +0200
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com>
Message-ID: <3f72eb7c$0$29964$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>

hey Ed, 
I get that weird error when I tried to run the little loop, this is what it
says:

sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xa0' in file myloop.py on
line 3, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps
pep-0263.html for details
  File "myloop", line 3
    ????????os.system('/home/joe/src/myprog/myprog')
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

does it mean anything to you?

thanx in advance
Ed wrote:

> os.system('xyz') runs in a shell, and when it exits returns its exit
> status. e.g.:
> a=os.system('ls bogus_directory')
> if bogus_directory exists then 'a' = 0, and if not 'a' = 1.
> 
> while 1:
>         os.system('xyz')
> 
> will run the program xyz, and as soon as xyz exits it will run it again -
> and so on.
> 
> -Ed
> 



From john.thingstad at chello.no  Fri Sep 12 11:17:48 2003
From: john.thingstad at chello.no (John)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:17:48 +0100
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no>

On 12 Sep 2003 06:09:02 -0700, Ubaidullah Nubar 
<ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> How well is Python suited for developing database based applications?
> I am new to Python so please bear with me if some of the questions are
> too simple. I specifically have the following questions:
>
> 1. Is there an example of a simple data-entry application written in
> Python using a GUI interface? Something like a simple address book app
> with a listbox displaying all addresses with the ability to
> add/modify/delete.
>
> 2. There seem to be a number of GUI frameworks available? Which one is
> good for use on Windows and Linux?
>
> 3. Can Python apps be compiled to an exe? Can the resulting executable
> be distributed commercially?
>
> 4. What types of applications are not suitable to be written in
> Python?
>
> I have good knowledge of many languages including C++, Assembler,
> Java, etc. My preferred development tool is Clarion currently. If
> anybody with a Clarion background can share their experience with
> Python, that will be very helpful.
>
> Appreciate your answers...
>
> Thanks & Regards,
> Ubaidullah Nubar.
>

My choice would be wxPython. Look at the wxPython demo form plenty of 
source.

2.
My personal preference of a Python RAD is Boa Constructor.
You will need to install wxWindows (www.wxWindows.org) wxPython 
(www.wxPython.org)
and finally the Boa Constructor itself (boa-constructor.sourceforge.net).
The resulting code is portable to unix and maybe mac.

3.
py2exe is used to generate executable python programs under windows.
The resulting code can be freely distrinuted.

4.
Python is appox 400 times slower than C.
If you are doing complex algorithmics on large data sets and a module like 
numpy dosn't accelerate what you need you might be better off with another 
language.
(Note that for most application the time is spendt in C modules interfaced 
by python.)
You have to options:
1. Implement the critical sections in C (the SWIG interface genetrator 
helps grind the C interface to pyhton)
2. Use another language (My choice.. I use Common Lisp for complex 
algorithmics)


-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From nospamius at lundhansen.dk  Mon Sep  1 02:43:03 2003
From: nospamius at lundhansen.dk (Bertel Lund Hansen)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:43:03 +0200
Subject: Declaration of an array of unspecified size
References: <m814lvc8h44vbd5g1m2iv05r33qg8ag9ta@news.stofanet.dk> <biu6k0$c8fs4$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <n9q5lvscj9d6i083go88a9js7cc8g7c4ig@news.stofanet.dk>

Ulrich Petri skrev:

>> class PopMailServer:
>>   host = ""
>>   user = ""
>>   password = "*"
>>   mails = 0
>>   mail[] # This is wrong but what do I do?
>mail = [] #would work

>But you are creating class-variables here. Are you sure thats what you want?

Yes. I have the habit from Java and C++. Is there a better way to
declare them in Python?

I am using the class for inheritance. Does that matter?

In my present version i deleted the lines where I declared empty
attributes. It seems to work anyway.

>>     self.mails=len(pop.list()[1])
>you can skip the "mails" variable. len(mail) will give the same.

Yes, I saw that in another posting. But I have a habit that I
aquired working with slow computers: always to substitute
function-calls with variables (faster). Is that a bad habit?

-- 
Bertel, Denmark



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 19:32:03 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:32:03 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com> <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net> <66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp@4ax.com> <A8Ccna05HMkwQ_2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <uo02mv0dugi9ijk0k3llar0g3nmtnm59m6@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:44:28 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>My main objection was/is that expressed by Michael Chermside today:
>this would complexify a simplicity that I consider a good feature of
>Python.  Reading Bengt Richter's lastest response, also today, I
>realize that 'ref x' would have to have much the same effect of Lisp's
>FEXPR defun keyword -- of automatically quoting rather than evaluating
>args -- although on just one rather than all.  Perhaps you should be
>accused of 'trying to Lispify Python' -- or perhaps not ;-).

I didn't know Lisp could do that. I really have to read up on Common
Lisp one of these days. And figure out Smalltalk properly. And Oberon.
And - well, the list goes on. Theres never enough time, is there :-(




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Sep 19 15:15:06 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:15:06 -0300
Subject: Size in memory
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FBF@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

How could I know how much memory uses an object?

Something like:

>> a = [66]
>> memused(a)
n

Thanks!


Facundo Batista
Gesti?n de Red
fbatista at unifon.com.ar
(54 11) 5130-4643
Cel: 15 5132 0132







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From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Sep 27 13:22:41 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:22:41 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <y7Ncb.3617$RW4.1457@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <pnjanv02metj5q30ivo2h3qhon03egaf59@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <BHjdb.5330$RW4.4732@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Stephen Feng:
> >> At one time, it was accepted as a truism that Windows (like MS-DOS)
> >> was different from Unix because Windows used the backslash as the path
> >> separator character, whereas Unix used the forward slash.

Me, arguing that the directory structure between DOS and its Windows
derivatives is a point of similarity, compared to the other differences.

Stephen Horne:
> Directly influenced, yes - but as DOS 1 didn't have subdirectories ...

Right.  I said that as well ...  Plus, Stephen's Feng's comparison
is predicated on comparing how directories are accessed, so it's
cheating to go back to when DOS didn't have directories.  ;)

> what is  accepted as an obvious truth is not always actually true,

A truer word has rarely been said.

BTW, the similarity-but-not-the-same between DOS and unix
caused me problems when I started using unix.  See, under DOS
there's this great utility called "unerase" which can be used to
recover files accidentally deleted.  Only I would deliberately
delete a file in order to probe the system; eg, is this file really
used?

And I wanted to see if the script really used the C compiler....

Had to reinstall IRIX to fix that one.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Sep  7 22:15:35 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 19:15:35 -0700
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309071815.1c8f3f51@posting.google.com>

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote in message news:<slrnblj40a.vc8.grey at dmiyu.org>...
>     If guns were such a overriding factor why is it the UK has as high
> if not higher rate of gun related violence than the US?  For that matter
> why is it in several other European nations (Netherlands and Switzerland
> IIRC) where there is a legal requirement for all males over a certain
> age to be armed (standing militia) that there is so little gun related
> violence?
> 
>     When are people going to learn, it ain't the guns, its the education
> and attitude surrounding them.  It isn't guns that are the problem, it's
> ignorance of guns thats the problem.

I didn't realise that gun-ownerhsip was mandatory in the Netherlands,
but as far as Switzerland is concerned the requirement is to be a
member of the armed forces.  Perhaps this is the way to cut US
fire-arms deaths.  All gun owners will have to join the Army, or the
National Guard at least, that way they can be educated in their
correct use, thereby substantially reducing accidental fire-arms
deaths, which in any case seem to make a higher contribution than
outright homocide.  Maybe they can also be taught that they kill only
on command?

What I'm trying to say, of course, is that comparing gun-ownership in
Switzerland, where it comes as part of being put under military
discpline, with gun ownership in the US, is comparing apples to
oranges.

And remember, thermonuclear devices don't kill people!  People do.



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sat Sep 27 08:07:11 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:07:11 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>
 <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com>
 <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>    ...
>>> I always assumed that these were considered inconsistent with normal
>>> use of tuples (which certainly I rarely need to get 'index' or
>>> 'count'-like results from).
>> 
>> I don't see why not.
>
> The party line (not saying I necessarily agree, mind you -- just relating 
> it) is that tuples are meant as semantically heterogeneous containers
> (semantically in that the items may happen to be the same type, but
> their _meaning_ is disparate: e.g., consider the tuples used in modules
> time or stat).  So it doesn't really make sense to iterate on them, either;
> it just happens to be possible because their items are accessed with []
> with progressive naturals, and they have a len().  Associating _names_
> to the indices makes more sense and indeed such pseudo-tuples are
> starting to be supplied by the standard library (though not a general
> mechanism for making your own, yet).  Much like you can't iterate in
> C++ on a std::pair<>, thus you "shouldn't" be able to iterate on a
> tuple.

Well, (understanding that you don't nececessarily agree with the
above) you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual C++
iterator protocol, and with a new mixed compile-time/runtime tuple
iterator protocol developed by Doug Gregor, iteration over
heterogeneous tuples is possible too.  It certainly is desirable to be
able to do that; it's a real need that has come up in practice.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep 26 12:57:00 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 17:57:00 +0100
Subject: Access to database other web sites
References: <b125f336.0309260753.189000d8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87n0crbi8z.fsf@pobox.com>

tibi87 at hanmail.net (Jenny) writes:

> I am doing research about realationship between sales rates and
> discounted prices or recommendation frequency. To do this, I need to
> access the database of commercial web sites via internet. I think this
> is possible because it it simmilar to the work of price comparison
> sites and web robot.

IIUYC, what you're contemplating is called "web scraping" -- at least,
it is by Cameron Laird, and I like the name.  Others might know it as
"web client programming".  Cameron wrote an article about this a while
back (Unix Review?) which you might like if you're a newbie -- Google
for it (but note that the Perl book he mentions has actually been
replaced by a newer one by Sean Burke, also from O'Reilly).


> I am studying python these days because I thinks it is a good language
> for the work.
[...]

I think so too.


> I welcome any informaion about this problem. Thanks in advance.

In the standard library, you'll want to look at these modules: httplib
(low level HTTP -- you probably don't want to use this), urllib2
(opens URLs as if they were files, handles redirections, proxies
etc. for you) and HTMLParser.  The standard library also includes
sgmllib & htmllib, but you'll probably want to use HTMLParser instead
if you want that kind of event-driven parsing at all.  Regular
expressions (re module) can also come in handy.

Personally, I've decided that I prefer the DOM style of parsing for
anything complicated -- it's just less work than the event-driven
style (though I don't much like the DOM API).  PyXML has an HTML DOM
implementation called 4DOM.  Use that together with mxTidy or
uTidylib: they will clean up the horrid HTML you'll find on the web to
the point where 4DOM can make sense of it.  Another option is to use
mxTidy/uTidylib to output XHTML, which allows you to use any XML DOM
implementation -- eg. pxdom, minidom, libxml...

You might find my modules useful too.  ClientCookie has an interface
just like urllib2 (and uses it to do its work), but handles cookies
and some other stuff too.  ClientForm makes it easier to work with
HTML forms.  ClientTable is currently a heap of junk, don't use it ;-)
I've just rewritten ClientForm on top of the DOM, which lets you
switch back and forth between the two APIs (and also lets you handle
JavaScript, rather badly ATM) -- coming RSN...

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/


The other, completely different, way of web scraping is to use the
"automation" capabilities of the various big web browsers: Microsoft
Internet Explorer, KDE's Konqueror and Mozilla are all scriptable from
Python.  You need the Python for Windows extensions, PyKDE or PyXPCOM
respectively to control those browsers.  Advantages: easy handling of
JavaScript and other assorted nonsense, and they're generally
reasonably well-tested and stable pieces of software (not to mention
de-facto standards).  Disadvantages: poor portability in some cases,
and they're rather big, complicated, closed applications that are hard
to modify (compared to the pure Python approach) and to distribute
(which last, I guess, isn't a problem for you, since you'll be the
only one using your software).  Other problems: COM (for MSIE) is a
bit of a headache for newbies, PyXPCOM last time I looked seemed a
pain to install (Brendan Eich mentioned in a newsgroup post that that
has been changing recently, though), and PyKDE might not be that well
tested (it's a very big wrapper!).

One other bunch of software worthy of mention: you can use Jython to
access various Java libraries.  HTTPClient and httpunit look like they
might be useful.  In particular, the latter has some JavaScript
support.


John



From mwh at python.net  Wed Sep 17 09:46:12 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:46:12 GMT
Subject: scp in python
References: <bk9ho8$hau$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <7h33cevedmc.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Michael" <qwerty at tiscalimail.nl> writes:

> Is there a scp (ssh) written in Python ?

conch (part of twisted) has something to do with ssh... dunno if it
does scp or how hard it would be to extend it to do it if it doesn't.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  The Programmer's Quick Guide To Python (Time Machine version):
    You try to shoot yourself in the foot, only to realize that
    there's no need, since Guido thoughtfully shot you in the foot 
    years ago.                     -- Nick Mathewson, comp.lang.python



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Sep 11 08:23:08 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:23:08 GMT
Subject: 1.5 vs. 2x - build problem
References: <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org>
Message-ID: <MOZ7b.84$o71.71@news2.central.cox.net>

"Fritz Wuehler" <fritz at expires-200309.rodent.frell.eu.org> wrote in message
news:7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b at remailer.frell.eu.org...
>
> I downloaded a tarball which doesn't compile.  The error message says I
> need python 2x but all I have is 1.5.  Can I fix the compatability
> problem and get it to work on 1.5?
>

Yes, please do.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net  Wed Sep 17 09:49:18 2003
From: stephen at SPAM.theboulets.IS.BAD.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:49:18 -0500
Subject: Simple python cgi question
Message-ID: <MHGdnfoYyrH0-fWiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>

First of all, I'm not sure that the easiest way to do this is with 
python ...

I'd like to set up a web page that would accept a text file, process it 
with a local program, and then make available generated pdf and 
postscript files for downloading.

I'd like to limit the size of the file to be uploaded.

I have apache2 already up. Is this a job for (mod_)python?

-- Stephen




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Sep 19 12:43:16 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:43:16 -0400
Subject: Binding frustration
References: <mailman.1063925970.14284.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kIza/ks/KzmE089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.1063925970.14284.python-list at python.org>,
Rob Hunter <rob at cs.brown.edu> wrote:
>On Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 06:21 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> When, within a function, you assign to a variable that has not been
>> declared global, then you implicitly declare that variable to be local
>> to the function -- in this case, inGenre().  But local var 'result'
>> has not previously been assigned a value within inGenre.  Hence the
>> error message.  As JCM said, try result.append(g).

>So it seems that if Python made a syntactic distinction between
>introducing a new binding, and assigning to an old one, then this
>problem would go away.

   Yup.  That's what Smalltalk does, but it too can be felt
to be a pain, because your first assignment to a variable
has to be different from the subsequent ones.  Breaks the
no-declarations, "just write the code" feel in Python.  Can
trip up code refactoring, as you move code around and find
that your third binding to x had just become your first.

        Regards.        Mel.



From glingl at aon.at  Wed Sep 17 17:13:45 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:13:45 +0200
Subject: how to write-protect names
In-Reply-To: <3F68C60C.AC611276@engcorp.com>
References: <3F68C499.1060604@aon.at> <3F68C60C.AC611276@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F68CE89.20601@aon.at>

Peter Hansen schrieb:

> What exactly do you need this for?  If you describe the purpose
> you have in mind for it we can provide the best approach, or 
> tell you that we don't think you should bother. ;-)
> 
> -Peter

I'm writing a module for teaching young students. It contains
e. g. a function width, which assigns a value to some (hidden)
variable:

 >>> width(5)

Now my experience is, that from time to time some of my
students write (erroneously)

 >>> width = 5

which renders the function width unaccessible for future
use. (Moreover the next

 >>> width(10)

will result in a rather strange error-message, like
int-object is not callable ... (my students won't
underswtand it).

Wouldn't it be useful if the name width were write-protected

Regards,
Gregor




From matt at pollenation.net  Wed Sep 10 06:16:57 2003
From: matt at pollenation.net (Matt Goodall)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 11:16:57 +0100
Subject: Python reading output from a running, external process
In-Reply-To: <uoextkm24.fsf@mail.afm.dtu.dk>
References: <uoextkm24.fsf@mail.afm.dtu.dk>
Message-ID: <1063189016.29632.65.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 10:52, Brian Elmegaard wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am not sure if this is a python or a wx question. However, I am
> working on a GUI for a simulation tool written in fortran. The output
> from this program during simulation written to memory and at the end
> to a file. Probably, this is the most portable way of handling
> output(?)
> 
> Now, if I would like to build the GUI, so every time the simulator
> writes new output to the output buffer in memory, the GUI would update
> the onscreen output, could I do that?  If not, is there any way to do
> it except making a library function/dll from the application and run
> that from python?
> 
> PS: I have taken a look at mmap, and perhaps this is what I am looking
> for? But can the file to open be the output buffer from a process? On
> windows? On unix?

I'm not sure whether this will really help since your simulation tool
writes output to memory rather than stdout but it sounds like you need
os.popen(). See http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-process.html
and
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-newstreams.html#os-newstreams. 

Basically, os.popen() would allow you to execute the simulation tool and
have its output channelled back to the GUI application through a
file-like object.

I don't know wx much but it is generally possible to attach a file (i.e.
the file returned by popen) to the GUI's event queue so that one of your
event handlers is called when there is new output from the simulation
tool. It should be easy enough to parse that to update the UI.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Matt
-- 
Matt Goodall, Pollenation Internet Ltd
w: http://www.pollenation.net
e: matt at pollenation.net




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Fri Sep 12 00:03:38 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:03:38 +1000
Subject: Web server with Python
In-Reply-To: <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <tnr1mvgnt45urvu6n4q6dso3eto73hfr1m@4ax.com> <sx68b.29387$Hb.450091@news4.e.nsc.no> <bjr3ea$m5rr9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030912040338.GA8069@frobozz>

On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 05:19:50PM -0700, Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> 
> The Twisted documentation seems pretty good and fairly extensive.
> And, for Web applications, here is a document I've written that
> might help you to get started:
> 
>     http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/twisted_patterns.html
> 
> I've checked this document carefully myself, but have not yet been
> able to get any Twisted experts to review it yet (again, the email
> list is down temporarily), so "reader beware".

Here's some quick feedback for you in the meantime, then :)

] Here is an example of a class that dispatches requests:
] 
] class ResourceDispatcher(resource.Resource):
] 
]     isLeaf = True
] 
]     def render(self, request):
]         done = False
]         if len(request.postpath) == 1 and request.postpath[0]:
]             if request.postpath[0] == 'show_plants':
]                 dbaccess = dbmod.DBAccess(registry)
]                 dbaccess.show_plants(request)
]                 done = True
]             elif request.postpath[0] == 'show_plants_by_rating':
]                 dbaccess = dbmod.DBAccess(registry)
]                 dbaccess.show_plants_by_rating(request)
]                 done = True
[...etc...]

Ugh.  You can do this with much less pain:

class ResourceDispatcher(resource.Resource):
    isLeaf = True
    def render(self, request):
        if len(request.postpath) == 1 and request.postpath[0]:
            name = request.postpath[0]
            dbaccess = dbmod.DBAccess(registry)
            try:
                method = getattr(dbaccess, 'webrequest_' + name)
            except AttributeError:
                pass
            else:
                method(request)
                return NOT_DONE_YET
        content = Content_Dispatch % (
            request.postpath,
            request.args,
            time.ctime(),
        )
        request.write(content)
        request.finish()

Note that the getattr-with-a-prefix idiom is used in several places in
Twisted, e.g. twisted.web.xmlrpc and twisted.spread.pb, among others.

]     def delete_plant_step_3(self, resultlist):
]         self.db.getPlants().addCallbacks(self.gotPlants,
]             self.db.operationError,
]             callbackArgs=())

callbackArgs defaults to (), there's no need to explicitly pass it.

] def add_plant_machine(self, *args):
]     if self.state == STEP_1:
]         self.db = PlantDatabase(self.dbpool)

Again, prefixed methods make this much nicer:

class Foo:
    state = 'step1'
    def add_plant_machine(self, *args):
        method = getattr(self, 'state_' + self.state, self.invalidState)(*args)

    def state_step1(self, *args):
        self.db = PlantDatabase(self.dbpool)
        # ...etc...
        self.state = 'step2'

    def state_step2(self, *args):
        # And so on...

This is much nicer way to construct a state machine than a massive
if/elif/elif/elif/... block.  A good example of this in Twisted is
twisted.protocols.smtp (and there's a helper class at
twisted.protocols.basic.StatefulStringProtocol -- but that's not really
relevant to web programming)

Even nicer would be thinking of meaningful names for the states instead of
just "step1", etc :)

] class PlantDatabase(adbapi.Augmentation):

Augmentation is deprecated, and will die soon.  You're better off just using
adbapi.ConnectionPool directly.

] class GlimpseTextRepository:
]     """Update and retrieve from the Plant_DB database.
]     """ 
]     def __init__(self):
]         pass

Why not just omit the redundant __init__ definition entirely?

]         # ..snip..
]         self.deferred.addCallback(self.got_query_results)
]         # ..snip..
]         
]     def got_query_results(self, results):
]         return results

Your comment below the code is right; you can just omit this entirely.  That
callback is redundant.

]     os.system(cmd)

This is a no-no in Twisted -- it will block.  Use the methods like
twisted.internet.utils.getProcessOutput instead.

] #
] # XML-RPC applicationLogic class
] #
] class TemperatureAccess:
[..snip..]
]     #
]     # Produce a form to be used to search the text repository.
]     #
]     def show_temperature_form(self, request):
]         dbglogmsg('*** (show_search_form)')
]         self.request = request
]         self.content = Content_ConvertTemperatureForm
]         self.request.write(self.content)
]         self.request.finish()
]         return NOT_DONE_YET

This is a pretty messy seperation of application logic from the XML-RPC
layer -- you're operating on a HTTPRequest object, which has nothing to do
with temperature logic.  Your abstractions are leaking.

Your example here is pretty confusing.  I *think* what you're doing is
having a Twisted webserver render requests based on data retrieved
dynamically via XML-RPC, but I can't see anywhere where you state that
clearly.  It took me a while to figure out that TemperatureAccess was on the
XML-RPC *client* side, not the server.

I recommend trying to rewrite this example using Woven.  It provides a
framework that encourages proper seperation of Models (the data structures,
whereever they come from, in this case XML-RPC) and Views (the way the model
is presented), and think it would come out much more elegantly.

I also recommend rewriting your example XML-RPC server using
twisted.web.xmlrpc.XMLRPC -- it provides a very easy way to write XML-RPC
servers, and seeing as this is a document about Twisted, it may as well use
it :)   You'll probably find the example in doc/examples/xmlrpc.py to be
helpful.

Finally, for the test harness, you might want to consider re-using the
infrastructure in Twisted, rather than rolling your own.  For a brief
example, I recommend the DeferredModelTestCase in
twisted/test/test_woven.py.

I hope this feedback helps.

-Andrew.





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 12:26:28 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 12:26:28 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <bjebpo$h85$1@panix3.panix.com> <VlOdnTfgosIdRceiXTWJhg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bjfm7k$fi1$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <VlOdnTfgosIdRceiXTWJhg at comcast.com>,
Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>I care that the site remain physically readable and that it remain
>a vehicle for information rather than childish egos.  If you are
>subscribed and could convey this concern, I would appreciate it.  I
>otherwise do not have too much concern about particulars and therefore
>not much to contribute.

Speaking as the champion of Lynx, I absolutely agree.  ;-)  Don't worry,
I'll veto anything that doesn't have excellent readability, though I
don't know to what extent I personally will check against browsers other
than Lynx and Opera.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 15:20:03 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 15:20:03 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <bjfvnh$mkb$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <bjg0d3$au0$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <bjfvnh$mkb$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>,
Fernando Perez  <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>And if you feel like people are being overly harsh, don't worry.  It's
>usenet after all :)

Well, no, it's not Usenet, not in the sense you mean.  Someone dragged a
discussion from a mailing list here, and I think that beating Tim up in
public is unfair.  We haven't even completely settled on a set of design
goals yet; Tim's mockup was strictly intended to help advance the
discussion.

I'll repeat what I said, if you want to be involved with the redesign
effort, join http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-redesign
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 10:23:39 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:23:39 GMT
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <L%06b.18004$hE5.637245@news1.tin.it>

Olivier Lefevre wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
> news:<elC5b.11632$hE5.410636 at news1.tin.it>...
>> Even ignoring safari's many other advantages
> 
> Safari is definitely a useful service (I am a subscriber) but
> 1. its range of titles is quite limited (only best-sellers)

It's got over 1,000 books -- I doubt they can ALL be best-sellers,
can they?  Taking for example their 15 Python books, it seems to
me that they are all the Python books published by O'Reilly and
most of thise published by the Pearson-owned publishers.

> 2. the time lag between release as hardcopy vs. on Safari can be really
> long

Sure: just like it takes a really long time for the latest movies
to become available at my local video rental shop (a much longer
time than it takes for at least O'Reilly books to get into safari,
which for the Nutshell was for example about 3 months).

Sure, if safari had even more books for you to choose from --
many thousands rather than a mere thousand -- it would no doubt
be even more useful.  I could say much the same about my local
library.  It's still a very useful resource, even with just
the number of books it currently has.


Alex




From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 19:53:56 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 00:53:56 +0100
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <87n0dmj82w.fsf@flibuste.net> <877k4q6jj1.fsf@pobox.com> <87ekyxinsx.fsf@flibuste.net> <bj5mmu$fj2v2$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <877k4pfmy3.fsf@pobox.com>

"Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> writes:

> | What is HTA ?
> 
> Wilk ....
> 
> HTA ... HTML Application
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/hta/reference/objects/hta.asp
> 
> Example containing a bit of VBScript
> to access some common applications
> under Windows ...
> 
> http://fastq.com/~sckitching/HTML/Start_Page.hta

But you can use Python just as easily.

<script language="Python">
...
</script>

(with win32all or the ActiveState Python distribution)


John



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Sep 13 11:09:05 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:09:05 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <6BB6268D-E5EC-11D7-A7C2-000393D443CE@earthlink.net>
References: <16226.9487.204094.248590@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <6BB6268D-E5EC-11D7-A7C2-000393D443CE@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <16227.13073.611762.21526@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Mitch> Unlike Andrew I don't think the lack of maintenance for 1.4's
    Mitch> free threading packages is due to any perception that threading
    Mitch> performance is unimportant.  It seems more likely that the
    Mitch> packages were not updated because they proved not to solve the
    Mitch> performance problems, and that no alternatives have emerged
    Mitch> because the problem is hard to solve.

One reason (maybe the primary reason) it never went further than a patch to
1.4 was that it was slower in the (common) single-threaded case.  Free
threading is no magic bullet.  There is a lot of overhead in maintaining all
the fine-grained locks necessary to dispense with the GIL.

    Mitch> Having said all of that, it looks like this thread originated on
    Mitch> python-dev, rather than on c.l.py where I found it.  So I'm
    Mitch> probably missing some reasons for what appears to be a dismissive
    Mitch> attitude toward Harri's efforts.  I'll go read the python-dev
    Mitch> archives.

Python-dev is the place to discuss concrete proposals.  Python-list is the
place to hash out ideas.  Simple as that.  You can read the few messages in
python-dev in the archive for September:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/thread.html

Search for "thread safe".

Skip






From !spamispeople!punga at great-atuin.net  Sun Sep  7 16:03:41 2003
From: !spamispeople!punga at great-atuin.net (Eduardo Alvarez)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:03:41 +0000
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mk6dnVAQUbZrTceiXTWJkg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbln3ot.1oj.!spamispeople!punga@aztlan.great-atuin.net>

In article <mk6dnVAQUbZrTceiXTWJkg at comcast.com>, Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "rt lange" <whiteywidow at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom at 216.77.188.17...
>> came across this page searching feedster.
>> dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
>> but the mockups look very nice.
> 
> YUCK< YUCK< YUCK.
> 
>> http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1
>>
>> main page mockup:
>> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main.html
> 
> The old site is very readable.  Using IE6, I need a magnifying glass
> to read this page.  This is done in the arrogant style of 'we know
> better than you what type size you should have'.  Also known as the
> 'control the user experience' school.  Awful.  For me, one of the
> worse pages I have ever seen.  Anti-Pythonic.
> 
>> interior page:
>> http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior.html
> 
> Only slightly better.  The low contrast gray-on-gray comments page is
> also barely readable.  (Others reported the same.)  For my
> less-than-perfect 50+ year-old eyes, it is physically the WORST
> comments page I have ever seen.  It is a case study in
> anti-accessibility design.  The person responsible should not touch
> our site.
> 
> Terry J. Reedy
> 
> 
> 
> Terry J. Reedy
> 
> 
> only slightly better.
> 
> 

mmmm...I only seem to see an image of the proposal.  is it possible to
see an actual HTML version of it?  The easiest test in my opinion would
be to run it by lynx, and see how readable it is then...

-- 
Eduardo Alvarez			http://www.great-atuin.net/~punga
						(offline, at the moment)
"Stercus, stercus stercus, moriturus sum"
    			-- Rincewind the Wizzard, "Interesting Times"



From freddycooper01 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 26 11:51:37 2003
From: freddycooper01 at yahoo.com (Freddy)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 08:51:37 -0700
Subject: Turning Strings into Functions
References: <46610d4e.0309251516.45a8eb01@posting.google.com> <bl0usu$j5g@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <46610d4e.0309260751.7699bfb5@posting.google.com>

I guess I could do that. Right now I'm creating the use cases
dictionary in a totally separate module which knows nothing about my
main module's functions. But I will try either moving the code into my
current module, or including the testcases.py into my higher level
module.
Thanks for the suggestion.

Freddy

"Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<bl0usu$j5g at newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>...
> "Freddy" <freddycooper01 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:46610d4e.0309251516.45a8eb01 at posting.google.com...
> 
> > How do you turn a string into a callable function? I'm writing a
> > program which takes user input and then looks up the associated
> > function to run from a shelved dictionary.
> 
> I see you have an answer already, so I'll give you a question.
> Is there any particular reason why you are storing the name
> of the function in the dictionary rather than the function itself?
> 
> i.e. myDict["Case1"] = {"desc":"This is Case1", "func1": Handler1} etc



From mwh at python.net  Wed Sep 24 12:28:25 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:28:25 GMT
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3smmm2m0w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> I got my hands on a Itanium2 machine[1], and gcc builds 64-bit
> executables by default. (sys.maxint = 9223372036854775807).  _tkinter,
> audioop and imageop didn't compile at first, and I believe it's a
> problem of configure.
> 
> I changed Modules/Setup and removed the hashes from the relevant
> modules, and a recompilation worked fine; so did running
> test.test_audioop and test.test_imageop.
> Things went well for the _tkinter extension too, after editing
> Modules/Setup, with the pre-installed 8.3 versions of tcl and tk.
> 
> The problem is that I am at a loss with the configure mechanism, and I
> can't figure why audioop, imageop and _tkinter were not configured in
> from the beginning (it's a linux system, after all; libraries and
> includes are in the standard places, ie /usr/lib and /usr/include).  I
> am ATM browsing old posts in Google groups searching for pieces of a
> 'python-configure-how-to', but any hints would be appreciated.

I may be wrong, but I thought that audioop and imageop only work in a
32 bit environment.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  please realize that the Common  Lisp community is more than 40
  years old.  collectively, the community has already been where
  every clueless newbie  will be going for the next three years.
  so relax, please.                     -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep 15 16:52:15 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:52:15 -0500
Subject: _ssl.so build problems on Solaris 8 for 2.3
Message-ID: <16230.9855.525029.78461@montanaro.dyndns.org>

I'm trying to build the released version of Python 2.3 on Solaris 8 for the
first time.

It has problems when building _ssl.so.  The command generated
is

    gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.8-sun4u-2.3/_ssl.o \
        -L/usr/local/ssl/lib -L/usr/local/lib -lssl -lcrypto \
        -o build/lib.solaris-2.8-sun4u-2.3/_ssl.so

It generates an enormous table which begins with:

    Text relocation remains             referenced
        against symbol          offset  in file
    <unknown>                   0x4     /usr/local/ssl/lib/libssl.a(ssl_ciph.o)
    <unknown>                   0x2c    /usr/local/ssl/lib/libssl.a(ssl_ciph.o)
    <unknown>                   0x54    /usr/local/ssl/lib/libssl.a(ssl_ciph.o)
    <unknown>                   0x7c    /usr/local/ssl/lib/libssl.a(ssl_ciph.o)
    <unknown>                   0xa4    /usr/local/ssl/lib/libssl.a(ssl_ciph.o)
    ...

That goes on and on and on (it must print several hundred lines), finally
finishing up with

    ...
    v2i_GENERAL_NAME            0xa1c   /usr/local/ssl/lib/libcrypto.a(v3_alt.o)
    v2i_GENERAL_NAME            0x15c   /usr/local/ssl/lib/libcrypto.a(v3_crld.o)
    v2i_GENERAL_NAME            0x2e8   /usr/local/ssl/lib/libcrypto.a(v3_info.o)
    ld: fatal: relocations remain against allocatable but non-writable sections
    collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

Is distutils missing some libraries or have I hosed the OpenSSL installation
somehow?  2.3b2 installed fine back in early July (including _ssl.so),
though the OpenSSL install has been updated since then (end of July).

Googling for "python solaris ssl" and checking the top-level
README for "ssl" didn't turn up anything promising.

Thanks,

Skip




From a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de  Fri Sep 26 08:29:14 2003
From: a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de (Andreas Neudecker)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:29:14 +0200
Subject: Where to import modules?
Message-ID: <bl1bes$13qe$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>

Hi.

I have a "style" question: Sometimes, modules will only be used in a 
particular, optional, part of a program (function, class), that will not 
always be used when the application is run. So I think it is better to 
import them only there, not on the top of the file (together with the 
other imports). Is that okay, or are there good reasons for not doing so?

Regards

Andreas




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Sep 21 18:42:19 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:42:19 -0400
Subject: math.exp(complex)
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-312D12.14581121092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEPIGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> Math libraries in general can return a better result for exp(x) than
>> e**x, though, since the latter form uses a machine approximation to e
>> as the base.

[David Eppstein]
> Doesn't look especially different to me, for the numbers I'm currently
> interested in applying this to (small pure imaginary):
>
> >>> from cmath import *
> >>> exp(1j*pi)
> (-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)
> >>> e**(1j*pi)
> (-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)

There are few shortcuts in numerical analysis.  If you want to understand,
and estimate how bad it *might* get over various input ranges, you'll have
to do careful analysis of the implementations.  You'll probably find that
very hard, because the Python implementations build on the platform C's
sin(), cos(), exp(), atan2(), pow() and hypot(), and few C vendors document
the accuracy of their implementations -- you don't have the raw material
then to estimate the accuracy and vulnerable areas of Python's
implementations.  For that reason, I can't tell you anything that's
generally true across implementations.  But you need only glance at c_exp in
cmathmodule.c, and c_pow in compleobject.c, to convince yourself that
c_exp() has far fewer places it can get into numerical trouble (it's a much
simpler algorithm).





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sat Sep 20 14:16:23 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:16:23 -0600
Subject: Visual Basic Procedure Names
In-Reply-To: <3394230.1064059154@dbforums.com>
References: <3394230.1064059154@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030920121602.028f38e0@66.28.54.253>

At 05:59 AM 9/20/2003, nvm1980_in wrote:


>I am writting an error hander module which should log Calling
>Subroutine/Function which caused Subroutine or raised an error. I would
>aso like to store Error Source, Description and Number.
>
>can any one help me for this.

Not with that amount of explanation.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From sheu at bu.edu  Tue Sep 30 14:31:23 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:31:23 -0400
Subject: printing to files in python
In-Reply-To: <35005.199.169.240.132.1064945924.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
References: <35005.199.169.240.132.1064945924.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <3F79CBFB.7020907@bu.edu>

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From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Sep  9 13:55:38 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:55:38 GMT
Subject: A couple of OOPython questions
In-Reply-To: <3915d531.0309090812.6a4db47e@posting.google.com>
References: <3915d531.0309090812.6a4db47e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <quo7b.407875$uu5.74303@sccrnsc04>

Alexy Khrabrov wrote:

> OK, now I go to my python prompt and I want to inspect my objects as
> returned by the CORBA server.  One of them represents an atom site.  I
> merrily type just its name to see the great unknown unwrap before my
> eyes.  Here:
> 
> 
>>>>a
> 
> <MMS.StructConf instance at 0x8cb1b44>
> 
> Hmm.  That's not what I hoped for.  Some fragments of code I saw run
> through my mind and I type in,
> 
> 
>>>>dir(a)
> 
> ['_NP_RepositoryId', '__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'beg_auth',
> 'beg_label', 'conf_type', 'details', 'end_auth', 'end_label', 'id']
> 
> Good, we're getting somewhere.  I also googled out vars(a), which
> seems to be the same as a.__dict__ (are they?...  why is __dict__ not
> shown above then?  2.2...)
> 
> Printing out gazillion fields by hand for each class is silly, they
> only wrap strings and numbers and other objects of that nature.  I am
> ready to dive in a recursive descent.  No such luck -- whoever created
> CORBA bindings for python didn't make those objects dictionary-like! 
> I can't get members by name, although they _are_ in some __dict__,
> useless apparently, until I supply __getitem__!
> 
> Is there an easy way to write something _once_, general enough, to
> print out a hierarchy of nested objects which just don't have
> __getitem__, although every field is either a string or a number or
> another object?

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for, but here's a first 
attempt.  Save the following to a Python file called recursive_repr, 
import recursive_repr, and try print recursive_repr.pr(x).

import types

def type_or_class(x):
     """returns the type of a variable x, or its class when the latter is
     more specific, so that the types of two variables can be compared
     """
     t = type(x)
     if t is types.InstanceType:
# for old-style classes, __class__ is more specific
         return x.__class__
# for built-in types and new-style classes
     return t

def name_of_class(x):
     t = type_or_class(x)
     return "%s.%s" % (t.__module__, t.__name__)

def pr(x):
     if hasattr(x, '__dict__'):
#        return "class %s: %s" % (name_of_class(x), pr(x.__dict__))
         return {'class %s' % name_of_class(x) : pr(x.__dict__)}
     elif type(x) is type({}):
         d = {}
         for key, value in x.items():
             d[key] = pr(value)
#        return repr(d)
         return d
     return x


> 
> Cheers, 
> Alexy Khrabrov




From llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net  Mon Sep 29 16:04:33 2003
From: llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:04:33 +0200
Subject: write to log file
Message-ID: <bla3fj$5ee$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi,
I have a log file and of course I want to add the new information to the 
end of that log file. Unfortunately I always delete the old information 
and only append the current info.

Right now I do it like this:
I call a module which consists of a class and a function. It actually 
doesn't matter, but I just included it for the sake of completeness.
The module looks like this:

class log_C:
   def errorlog(self, filename, Data, d):
       LogFile = file(filename, 'w')
       ErrorInfo = Data[d+1]
       LogFile.write(ErrorInfo)
       LogFile.close()

How can I add the new info without deleting the old info?
I tried the modes 'a' and 'a+' but they both didn't work. Actually the 
data was totally unreadable! It was kind of messed up. I don't know why.

Thanks for your help.
Regards, Tom




From jerf at jerf.org  Tue Sep  2 22:33:49 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 02:33:49 GMT
Subject: Advice to a Junior in High School?
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <3d6c6fc3.0308261246.32db39d5@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.09.01.20.18.27.3901@jerf.org> <3d6c6fc3.0309020814.544db215@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.02.22.34.03.206396@jerf.org>

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 09:14:41 -0700, Stan Graves wrote:
> Yes.  I have had the mis-fortune of being a maintenance programmer for
> far too much of my life.  I have read reams of documentation, and
> hundreds of thousands of lines of code.  I have attempted to make
> sense of code written to do one thing, but extended and tortured into
> doing another.

For what it's worth, you're reading the slush pile and judging the whole
discipline with it, if that statement is accurate. To be fair, you need to
be comparing the *best* of computer science against Shakespeare, not
whatever happens to cross your desk. You can't judge English Novels by
Danielle Steele, either. The whole "Turing Machine" bit (including the
Halting Problem, incomputability, the whole "there are problems we can't
solve, provably") has personally moved me a lot more then Shakespeare.
Knuth has a piercing clarity. There are others. (Python itself is
surprisingly larger then the sum of its parts, to stay on topic, and I'm
not just saying that; I mean it.)

(Actually, I'm not a fan of Shakespeare; he's good with words but I think he
is worshipped because he was first; the first guys to be decent at
something are held up as geniuses later, but I think the exact same work,
done thirty years later after somebody *else* had been first, would be
merely a historical footnote. So I'll take the larger point and
extrapolate to "English masterpiece".)

(On the later point, I'm agreeing to disagree.) 



From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Wed Sep 24 04:45:54 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:45:54 GMT
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <4n9cb.1447$RW4.791@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6Rccb.585$IN4.800663601@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>

Thanks, good web search! I couldn't get "Location:URL" to work but META did.

Regards.

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4n9cb.1447$RW4.791 at newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Andrew Chalk:
> > Assume that I have a static HTML page that I want
> > displayed (e.g. index.htm). Other than 'print ...' is there any way to
> > redirect to this URL (for example, like Response.Redirect() in ASP)?
>
> The Response.Redirect likely works by putting something in
> the header.  The HTML page you have doesn't have access to
> the header.  However, you can use the meta tag to tell the
> browser to look elsewhere.  But that won't work for tools which
> don't parse the HTML.
>
> It's an easy web search (once you know the right keywords :) -
> "header redirect meta" and I found
> http://vancouver-webpages.com/META/FAQ.html#redirect
>  "How can I redirect the user to another page ?"
> with three different answers
>
>                     Andrew
>                     dalke at dalkescientific.com
>
>
>





From secun at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 08:18:17 2003
From: secun at yahoo.com (SectorUnknown)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:18:17 GMT
Subject: Windows dialog box removal
Message-ID: <MPG.19dbcef078a40b3d989688@news2.atlantic.net>

I've written a Python script that runs a MS Windows program using popen. 
However, at the end of the Windows program, a dialog box appears and 
asks for the user to click on OK. 

Is there a way to have Python set focus on the dialog box and click OK 
so my script can continue?

Does anyone have an example?



From john at rygannon.com  Mon Sep 15 04:59:42 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:59:42 GMT
Subject: Could somebody please explain what is happening ....
Message-ID: <3f657f95$0$10968$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Hi

I have been reading quite a lot of Python source code recently and I have
come across a particular construct which I don't understand. I would be
grateful if somebody could explain the reason for including the following
lines of code. I have seen it only at the beginning of a module:-

global sys
import sys

global os
import os

....
....

I know what global means and I know what import means but what is the reason
for making an imported module global?

-- 
Best Regards
John



From davecook at nowhere.net  Mon Sep  8 17:56:11 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:56:11 GMT
Subject: enum in Python
References: <KF67b.33$fd2.25@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <%V67b.653$NW3.617@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <KF67b.33$fd2.25 at newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>, Andrew Chalk wrote:

> As a rank Python beginner I've used a dictionary, but presumably there is a
> better way.

I've seen idioms like 

FOO, BAR, BAZ = range(3)

used.

Dave Cook



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 10:35:42 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:35:42 -0400
Subject: in Ram database?
References: <mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vlh7sqn1t375ff@news.supernews.com>

"John D." <lists at webcrunchers.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list at python.org...
> Does anyone know if there is an "in-ram" dictionary based database
> for Python.
>
> I can see some applications where this can really be powerful in
> applications requiring 10,000 records or less.
>
> Is such a database available?   If so,  who is working on it,
> or where is it?
>
> I've heard that Python supports a stand-alone database.   I looked
> for it in the Docs,  and see the "dbm" module.   I haven't found
> any examples of code,  so don't know how to use them.   I'm one
> of those guys that learn through examples,  and have very little
> luck in figuring out how to use anything unless I can see examples
> of their use.
>
> My idea is that ALL datums would be Python Dictionary objects,  so
> not only can you store data,  but python objects as well.
>
> Storage to disk would be through pickled files,  or through CSV
> format,  allowing easy import and export from other databases.
>
> I'm sure something like this exists,  I just haven't found it yet,
> and if not,  then I'm well on my way of implementing one myself.
>
> I kinda like the idea of being able to define smaller tables as
> "in-memory" types,  and the really large massive ones in other forms
> managed by mySQL, PostGres, or bsddb3 databases.
>
> Any leads you guys???

Look at Prevalyar. While it's a Java project, it might give
you some ideas about what's possible if you forget "data base"
and simply think "persistance."

John Roth
>
> JD
>
>
>





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 11 17:16:53 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:16:53 -0400
Subject: why is this failing?
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F60E645.2501B9EE@engcorp.com>

Chris Curvey wrote:
> 
> I've looked at this so long that I must be looking right past it.  This
> code:
> 
> class Page:
>      ##########################################################
>      def write(self, value, row=None, col=None, len=None):
>          print isinstance(value, str)
> 
>          # error occurs on this line
>          print len(value)
> 
> ########################################################
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      p = Page()
> 
>      p.write("banana")
> 
> is throwing this error:
> 
> True
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "P2.py", line 13, in ?
>      p.write("banana")
>    File "P2.py", line 7, in write
>      print len(value)
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable

Reading the error more closely, and examining the line that is failing,
you can see that the only call being made is to len(), but the error is
telling you that the name "len" is actually bound to None!  How could
that happen?  Check your list of arguments to the write() method...

Don't use names of builtins and your life will be easier. :-)

-Peter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep  8 15:03:23 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:03:23 -0400
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
References: <mailman.1063031798.22437.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <G9-dnRaUWfnhT8GiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>

"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063031798.22437.python-list at python.org...
> >What we were directed to was *not* a mockup (model), but an image
of a
> >mockup.  That mislabeling was a source of misunderstanding which
> >generated part of the criticism.  Please let us keep the useful
> >distinction between a thing and an image of the thing.
> >Terry J. Reedy
>
> From the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary - Eight Edition
> "Mock Up - An experimental model or replica of a proposed structure"

Right, and I contend that an image is definitely not 'an experimental
model' (that one can experiment with) nor, in this context, a
'replica' of the proposed structure.

> Tim - 'only posting to defend my right to use dictionary english'

Ditto, tho with different interpretation thereof.

I repeat my request to not try to eliminate  the useful distinction
between things and images thereof.  I think Rene 'Ceci n'est Pas une
Pipe' Magritte had it right.

Terry J. Reedy







From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 13:27:38 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 18:27:38 +0100
Subject: safari
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309040634.7999e400@posting.google.com> <L%06b.18004$hE5.637245@news1.tin.it> <51809ae4.0309110734.1e5d28be@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87y8wvfd6d.fsf@pobox.com>

lefevrol at yahoo.com (Olivier Lefevre) writes:

> > It's got over 1,000 books -- I doubt they can ALL be best-sellers,
> > can they? 
> 
> What I mean is that it seems to have only language or API how-to kind
> of books, i.e., those that appeal to working programmers, the largest 
> audience. A contrario look under Computer Science, AI or Functional 
> Programming: it's pitiful. Yet the CS book market is also large, 
[...]

Isn't that just because that's the kind of stuff O'Reilly publishes?
Addison-Wesley, Wiley &c. tend to do the books that are more on the
software engineering and CS side.

Or does Pearson Education have something to do with it -- I noticed
their site mentioning a 'Safari' a while back, and at the time assumed
that was a copy, but I think Alex mentioned them in this thread.  Are
Pearson and O'Reilly owned by a single company, or something?  I have
a vague recollection that Pearson owns some other companies...


John



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Sep 15 17:10:39 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:10:39 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911162016.02027750@telecommunity.com> <mailman.1063342640.29560.python-list@python.org> <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <20030915211033.GO32270@unpythonic.net>

Harri,
I don't understand how your suggested changes, even once carried out,
will let me use threads to increase the speed of a CPU-intensive Python
program.  For instance, consider the following code:

solutions = []

def is_solution(l):
    # CPU-intensive code here.  Let's say it runs for 1 second per call

def consider_solution(l):
    if is_solution(l):
        solutions.append(l)

def problem_space(l):
    # A generator of items in the problem space
    # pretty fast!
    ...
    yield l

def all_solutions():
    for l in problem_space:
        consider_solution(l)


I could thread it, so that N threads each run is_solution on a different
candidate:
    def all_solutions():
        queue = worker_tasks(consider_solution, N)
        for l in problem_space:
            queue.add(l)
        queue.shutdown()

But with your proposed changes, it sounds like each thread becomes an
island, with no access to common objects (like the list "solutions" or
the queue connecting the main thread with the worker threads).
If threading truly worked, then I'd be able to run efficiently on n*1
CPUs, where n is the ratio of the speed of one iteration of is_solution
compared to one iteration of problem_space.

On the other hand, I can make the above work quickly today by using
processes and pipes.  I can do this only because I've identified the
parts that need to be shared (the queue of candidate solutions, and the
list of confirmed solutions).  I think that's the same level of effort
required under the "thread is an island" approach you're suggesting, but
the processes&pipes code will likely be easier to write.

Jeff




From mynews44 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 01:43:51 2003
From: mynews44 at yahoo.com (google account)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 22:43:51 -0700
Subject: string objects...
Message-ID: <e84f5d12.0309182143.3807af0e@posting.google.com>

I know that string.letters and string.digits are all the letters and
numbers, is there a string.????  that is a subset of all the ascii
characters that are available on a US English Keyboard without going
to special characters (like ? or ?)

I couldnt see anything that was explaining this stuff on the
python.org site.

I think what I want is soemthing like string.printable -
string.whitespace but that doesn't seem to work like string.letters +
string.numbers...


TIA


Googleboy



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Sep 12 11:42:22 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:42:22 -0700
Subject: safari (was Re: Writing solid code book)
In-Reply-To: <3f617389.593042620@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <c19a00587rpb$.1dbigl3h85ufm$.dlg@40tude.net> <3f617389.593042620@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030912154222.GA4211@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Alan Gauld (alan.gauld at btinternet.com):
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:14:05 -0600, Jules Dubois
> <bogus at invalid.tld> wrote:
> > However, seeing for the first time Python's syntax in _Nutshell_ was enough
> > to scare me away.  
> 
> Really? Can I ask why? I'd have thought seing Pythons syntax
> would be a breath of frsh air to most programmers, it certainly
> was for me. Why did you think it was scary?

I know I resisted the idea of significant whitespace for something
like six months, despite evangelical friends, before I turned away
from the dark side.

Perhaps not coincidentally, I began reconsidering my opinion at
approximately the same time I became responsible for extension of a
Perl script written by a fellow who was just coming to understand
use of references in Perl.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "There is no fate that cannot be 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     surmounted by scorn." --Albert Camus




From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 25 11:39:45 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:39:45 +0200
Subject: Windows dialog box removal
References: <MPG.19dbcef078a40b3d989688@news2.atlantic.net> <mailman.1064497835.7752.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <n0csev26.fsf@python.net>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:

> On Thursday 25 September 2003 06:18 am, SectorUnknown wrote:
>> I've written a Python script that runs a MS Windows program using popen.
>> However, at the end of the Windows program, a dialog box appears and
>> asks for the user to click on OK.
>>
>> Is there a way to have Python set focus on the dialog box and click OK
>> so my script can continue?
>>
>> Does anyone have an example?
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if there's an easier or more correct way to do this, 
> but if you can reliably know the title of the window then the code below 
> should work (assuming you have ctypes installed):
[example snipped]

I've added this example to the ctypes wiki, so it will not be lost. Hope
that's ok ;-)

<http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/moin.cgi/CtypesLinks>

Thomas



From christophe.delord at free.fr  Wed Sep 17 16:14:50 2003
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:14:50 +0200
Subject: replace %(word) in a string
References: <mailman.1063788123.2509.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnbmgi1d.e5h.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>
	<Xns93F9BB479FE03PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.75>
Message-ID: <20030917221450.1647ef73.christophe.delord@free.fr>

On 17 Sep 2003 16:30:08 GMT, Fred Pacquier wrote:

> Mirko Zeibig <mirko-lists at zeibig.net> said :
> 
> > Especially useful together with the locals() function, which returns
> > a dictionary of locally defined variables:
> > 
> > def foo():
> >     a = "Hello"
> >     b = "World"
> >     print "%(a)s %(b)s" % locals()
> 
> Yes, that's a wonderful feature. Recently though, I've wondered a
> couple of times : is there an easy way to substitute with both local
> AND global variables ?...
> 

You can substitute local and global variables. But you can do much more.
You can write a python expression in %(...)s if the object on the right
side of % looks like a dictionnary and can evaluate its argument. For
example I often this piece of code:

class I:
    def __getitem__(self, item):
        frame = sys._getframe(1)
        return eval(item, frame.f_globals, frame.f_locals)

As I only need one instance of I, I use:

I = I()

Then I can write thing like that:

word1 = "python"
word2 = "lovers"

print "Hello, %(word1)s %(word2)s !"%I

And even:

print "1 + 1 = %(1+1)s"%I

But you must keep in mind that the use of eval may not be safe.


Christophe.




-- 

(o_   Christophe Delord                     __o
//\   http://christophe.delord.free.fr/   _`\<,_
V_/_  mailto:christophe.delord at free.fr   (_)/ (_)



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Sep  8 10:00:06 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:00:06 +0200
Subject: Giving the FAQ a more prominent place (UTB: Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20030908140006.GB5991@nl.linux.org>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Tim Parkin wrote:
> > Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it's
> > a proposal and a work in progress.
> 
> Could someone remind me what need there is for a redesign in the first
> place?  Of all the Python-related efforts that one could put time into,
> this seems like one of the least useful.

What I *do* think, is that it would be useful to put the FAQ more
prominently on the site. Maybe posting the FAQ to c.l.py weekly,
in a separate post, also helps. I don't really mind seeing questions
answered in the FAQ, but it will help because the FAQ is not very
easy to find.

(The FAQ actually _is_ linked from the front page of www.python.org, but
 there are exactly 114 links on the front page: not exactly easy to find
 the FAQ between them, especially if you're new)

Gerrit.

-- 
107. If the merchant cheat the agent, in that as the latter has
returned to him all that had been given him, but the merchant denies the
receipt of what had been returned to him, then shall this agent convict
the merchant before God and the judges, and if he still deny receiving
what the agent had given him shall pay six times the sum to the agent.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Tue Sep  2 17:08:38 2003
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:08:38 +0000
Subject: cli arguments
Message-ID: <3f5506d5$0$8546$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

What is the module called that's made to dael with cli argument's like 
--foo-bar -c -blabla ?




From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Tue Sep 16 13:06:27 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:06:27 -0300
Subject: Datetime utility functions
In-Reply-To: <16E1010E4581B049ABC51D4975CEDB8803060C81@UKDCX001.uk.int.atosorigin.com>
References: <16E1010E4581B049ABC51D4975CEDB8803060C81@UKDCX001.uk.int.atosorigin.com>
Message-ID: <20030916170627.GA4026@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> > Have a look at this:
> 
> I like that. I'm not entirely happy with the name of the class, but as
> I can't come up with a better suggestion, I shouldn't criticise...

The name explains it pretty well. It's like timedelta, but it's
a "relative" delta, since how much it will advance will depend on
the date you apply it to.

[...]
> Sorry, I didn't explain that very well. Imagine an application to report
> stats over a period. The user can specify a date, and the report will be
> for a calendar month, containing the user's required date. So my code
> will be something like
> 
>     start = user_date.replace(day=1) # Start of the month
>     end = "Last day of the month"

Oh! Ok.. I understand now.

[...]
> With your "relativedelta" I could do this pretty easily, by
> 
>     end = start + relativedelta(months=+1, days=-1)

Hummm.. no. Look:

 >>> date.today()+relativedelta(months=+1, days=-1)
 datetime.date(2003, 10, 15)

Instead, it should be done by:

 >>> date.today()+relativedelta(months=+1, day=31)

Notice that it works also for other months:

 >>> date.today()+relativedelta(month=2, day=31)
 datetime.date(2003, 2, 28)

This is described in step 4 of the documentation I pasted
in the mail.

> but I still feel that I'd need to have an explanatory comment. The
> datetime module *knows* the number of days in the month - I'd just
> like it to tell *me*.

Have you noticed that this is also offered by the calendar module?

 >>> import calendar
 >>> calendar.monthrange(2003, 9)
 (0, 30)

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net




From edreamleo at charter.net  Wed Sep  3 09:14:14 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:14:14 -0500
Subject: Hunting a memory leak
References: <slrnbkucfq.41o.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <7h3oey84qho.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnbkv5h6.i5.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <slrnbkv748.on.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <vl147iqv8kk6da@corp.supernews.com> <bj2om3$nuj$1@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>
Message-ID: <vlbq977c1pl45a@corp.supernews.com>

> Yeah... using this approach I was finally able to hunt the leak!!!.
...
> Anyway, thanks very much for the advices and encouragement!

You are welcome.  IMO, if you can track down memory problems in C you can
debug just about anything, with the notable exception of numeric programs.
Debugging numeric calculations is hard, and will always remain so.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From rob at cs.brown.edu  Mon Sep 29 16:47:07 2003
From: rob at cs.brown.edu (Rob Hunter)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:47:07 -0400
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <20030929204143.GA8765@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <16E3AA52-F2BE-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>

On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 04:41 PM, Gerrit Holl wrote:

> Rob Hunter wrote:
>> On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 10:20 AM, Gerrit Holl wrote:
>>> Rob Hunter wrote:
>>>> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why do you want to do so?
>>
>>
>> I am writing an interpreter, and my parser has to decide if an
>> expression is a number or not.
>
> So you actually have a string...
>
> Maybe you could do something like this:
>
> if expr.strip("0123456789.e") == "": print "May be a number!"
> if expr.strip("0123456789") == "": print "Surely a number!"
>
> Gerrit.
>

I don't like that solution for this particular project because, as you 
say yourself, if it says yes to the second question, it only *may* be a 
number.  I want to know for sure.  I think the type or instance checks 
as the other posters mentioned are going to be fine for me.

OTOH, thanks for the suggestion!  That's a cool little hack that I'm 
sure will come in handy to me in the future.

Rob





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Sep 16 16:43:11 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:43:11 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-87EA1B.13431116092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7 at posting.google.com>,
 hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth) wrote:

> This may have been asked before but I can't find it. If I have
> a rectangular list of lists, say, l = [[1,10],[2,20],[3,30]], is 
> there a handy syntax for retrieving the ith item of every sublist?
> I know about [i[0] for i in l] but I was hoping for something more
> like l[;0].

>>> l = [[1,10],[2,20],[3,30]]
>>> zip(*l)[0]
(1, 2, 3)

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Tue Sep 30 19:03:36 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:03:36 -0400
Subject: python, vtk, C++
References: <mailman.1064893483.14489.python-list@python.org> <87d6dicwt0.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <u7k3pri9j.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> "Yi-Yu Chou" <chouyiyu at hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> I want to use python as my GUI to load a 3D volume (vtkImageData),
>> and use a pointer to pass this 3D image to my own C++ class.
>> My question is I don't know how to communicate between python and C++.
>> Any suggestion would be appreciated.
>
> Google.

I think I can be a little more helpful than that:

http://www.boost.org/libs/python
http://www.swig.org

HTH,
-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Tue Sep 30 16:04:52 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 13:04:52 -0700
Subject: can i implement virtual functions in python ?
References: <e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309301204.42025a5e@posting.google.com>

I think you can do something like this.

class Virtual:
    def myFunc(self, x):
        pass

class Implement(Virtual):
    def myFunc(self, x):
        return x * x



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Thu Sep 18 14:25:19 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:25:19 GMT
Subject: Indexing list of lists
In-Reply-To: <95b4b9ac.0309180950.30b44d89@posting.google.com>
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <bkblav$u63$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309180950.30b44d89@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jMmab.507800$uu5.85683@sccrnsc04>

Hilde Roth wrote:

>>Like it or not, there are no "different dimensions", just lists of lists 
>>of lists... 
> 
> 
> You are being too litteral. A list of list is like a 2D array from an
> indexing point of view, a list of lists of lists like a 3D array etc.
> E.g., (((1,10),(2,20),(3,30)),((-1,'A'),(-2,'B'),(-3,'C'))) is a  
> 2 x 3 x 2 rectangular data structure and has 3 dimensions. Hence,
> e.g., l[0;2;1] ~ l[0][2][1] = 30

Only if all the sublists are of the same length, which is guaranteed for 
a multi-dimensional array, but not for a list of lists.

What do you expect a[;1] to return if a = [[], [1, 2, 3], [4], 5]?

That's why Numeric has a specific type for multi-dimensional arrays.

David




From indigomoonBLINDERS at bonbon.net  Sat Sep 20 03:48:57 2003
From: indigomoonBLINDERS at bonbon.net (Indigo Moon Man)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:48:57 -0600
Subject: py2exe web site
References: <bkgljf$1lglu$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de> <vmnn9deu0p1af2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bkh0u6$1g5c0$1@ID-70710.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michael Geary <Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com> spake thusly:
>
> Starship has been having DNS trouble--again! You can get there with the IP
> address:
>
> http://217.160.219.194/
> or
> http://217.160.219.194/crew/theller/py2exe/
>
Hey, great.  Thank you for the info!


-- 
Remove BLINDERS to email me.
Audio Bible Online:
http://www.audio-bible.com/





From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep 27 04:49:00 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:49:00 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it> <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com> <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it>

David Abrahams wrote:
   ...
>> I always assumed that these were considered inconsistent with normal
>> use of tuples (which certainly I rarely need to get 'index' or
>> 'count'-like results from).
> 
> I don't see why not.

The party line (not saying I necessarily agree, mind you -- just relating 
it) is that tuples are meant as semantically heterogeneous containers
(semantically in that the items may happen to be the same type, but
their _meaning_ is disparate: e.g., consider the tuples used in modules
time or stat).  So it doesn't really make sense to iterate on them, either;
it just happens to be possible because their items are accessed with []
with progressive naturals, and they have a len().  Associating _names_
to the indices makes more sense and indeed such pseudo-tuples are
starting to be supplied by the standard library (though not a general
mechanism for making your own, yet).  Much like you can't iterate in
C++ on a std::pair<>, thus you "shouldn't" be able to iterate on a tuple.

"Frozen" versions of lists and dicts might make more sense -- and lose
only the MUTATING methods.  I've seen Ruby experts claim that the
idea of freezing an object looks cool but in practice you end up almost
never using it -- they're speaking from experience, I guess, since in Ruby
they've had the possibility of freezing any object for ages.  However, my
intuition (not supported by that much specific experience) makes me
yearn for such a feature...


Alex




From theller at python.net  Thu Sep 25 04:52:32 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:52:32 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
 <u172glc2.fsf@python.net> <bktgkc$5gk64$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ad8tfdwv.fsf@python.net>

"Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> writes:

> | There's a checkbox which you can uncheck 
> | to disable installing the htmlhelp file. 
> | 
> | Then you can download the HTML archive 
> | and install it manually. 
>
> Thomas ....
>
>     Thanks for the reply .... 
>
>     It's good to know that an alternative 
>     for the individual HTML doc files will remain .... 
>
>     Would it be feasible to eliminate the Python Docs
>     from the standard distribution and always download
>     separately if desired ???? 
>
>     This would eliminate downloading the docs twice
>     if the user wants the separate doc files and provide
>     a leaner download for non-programming Python users 
>     that will never develop anything in Python themselves
>     but who want a run-time environment only .... 

Of course it would be possible, but it would certainly add confusion if
there were several downloads to select from.

Thomas



From geoff at gerrietts.net  Fri Sep 19 19:48:18 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:48:18 -0700
Subject: whitespace
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.19.23.35.54.334022@cornell.edu>
References: <pan.2003.09.19.23.35.54.334022@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <20030919234817.GC2478@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting RR (rr84 at cornell.edu):
> Is there an easy way in python to remove whitespace from a string?

Depending on what you mean by "remove whitespace":

  >>> mystring = " a b c d e f g "
  >>> mystring.strip()
  'a b c d e f g'
  >>> import re
  >>> re.sub("\s+", "", mystring)    
  'abcdefg'


> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts             "Whenever people agree with me I always 
<geoff at gerrietts net>     feel I must be wrong." --Oscar Wilde




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Sep  9 10:57:44 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:57:44 +0200
Subject: Unicode Newbie
References: <20030909162009.0247ce9d.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch>
Message-ID: <bjkppc$icv$1@sea.gmane.org>

Manuel Huesser wrote:

> The unicode function implies that you only can use 2 ** 16 chars
> (unichr supports only this range) but with a given encoding e.g.
> unicode(",,,", "utf-8") i should be able to encode
> up to 2** 31 chars.

Nope.  Read on.

> "\xfc\x12\x12\x12\x12\x12\x12" is an example for a 7
> byte utf-8 string. But on encoding i get the following
> error:
>
> UTF-8 decoding error: unsupported Unicode code range

Unicode supports ~2**20 code points (17*64k), not 2**31 characters.
Your example is not a valid UTF-8 string.

> Is there any possibility to do the job?

Not if you're using a conforming Unicode implementation.

</F>







From christoph at mmc-startup.com  Wed Sep 24 10:26:10 2003
From: christoph at mmc-startup.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:26:10 +0200
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
In-Reply-To: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3F71A982.6050006@mmc-startup.com>

I like the idea of having some iterator.backwards, backwards(iterator) etc.

However especially reading Andrew Dalke's postings and replies (and
having thought about using internally len() and so on --- but then
thinking of iterator maybe having *no* __len__)
I now think that reverse iteration is not well defined when __len__
can't be defined (and sometimes even if it is). This is not the case for 
list-like objects as they
have a predictable fixed length (even if the __len__-method isn't
actually implemented).
Let me give an example:

class NaturalNumbers:
     def __init__(self):
        self.n= 0
     def __iter__(self):
        return self
     def next(self):
        self.n+=1
        return self.n


This is surely ordered but defining the reverse-order is difficult.
Maybe it should always return infty then.

Or think about a "Tape-Iterator". An object that reads data from e.g. a 
file forwards/next and backwards/iter_backwards.
What would you expect to get if tape is at position x and you say 
tape.backwards()?
Should it be the last byte of the file or maybe that on position x-1 ?
This shows that we can get into trouble when we have already iterated 
"in the right direction" and then start to do "backwards".

While reverse-iteration is a sound idea we need a clear definition of 
what is meant!


I thought of the following (I give multiple possibilies named a,b,c, ... 
finally only one may be used):
1. If iterator has fixed/determined length (so it could be converted 
into a regular list):
    a) iterator.iter_backwards() creates an independent reverse-iterator:
       1.1)
          l2= list(iterator)
          l1= list(iterator.iter_backwards())
          l2.reverse()
          l1 and l2 have to be equal
       1.2)
          l1= list(iterator.iter_backwards())
          l2= list(iterator)
          l2.reverse()
          l1 and l2 have to be equal
       (next cases as examples for simplicity)
       1.3)
          it= range(4)
          it.next()
          l1= list(it.iter_backwards())
          l2= list(it)
          -> l1 == [3,2,1]
             l2 == [1,2,3]
       1.4)
          it= range(4)
          itBack= it.iter_backwards()
          l1= [itBack.next(), itBack.next(), itBack.next()]
          l2= [it.next(), it.next(), it.next()]
          -> l1= [3,2,1]
             l2= [0,1,2]
    b) iterator.iter_backwards() creates a dependent reverse-iterator:
       1.1) 1.2) like in a)
       (next cases as examples for simplicity)
       1.3)
          it= range(4)
          it.next()
          l1= list(it.iter_backwards())
          l2= list(it)
          -> l1 == [0,]
             l2 == [0,1,2,3]
       1.4)
          it= range(4)
          itBack= it.iter_backwards()
          l1= [itBack.next(), itBack.next(), itBack.next()]
          l2= [it.next(), it.next(), it.next()]
          -> l1= [3,2,1]
             l2= [1,2,3]
2. Infinite/non-determined iterators:
    They should implement reverse-iteration in a way that
    iterator.next()
    iterator.iter_backwards().next()
    is a nop
    and
    iterator.iter_backwards().next()
    iterator.next()
    is a nop, too.
    Or if there are more backward than forward-steps should raise some 
StopBackwardIterator



I'm sure there are a lot more and probably better definitions, so I hope 
we will find a useful one.


Christoph Becker-Freyseng










From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 08:47:13 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:47:13 +0100
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com> <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com> <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com> <877k46e0sz.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <87vfrq6z72.fsf@pobox.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:
[...]
> (no special syntax, but lots of useful functions and 'ufuncs').
[...]

Oops, wrong.  See my other post.


John



From simonb at webone.com.au  Wed Sep 10 18:42:48 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:42:48 +1000
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python
References: <mailman.1063224795.24414.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.10.22.42.45.569436@webone.com.au>

One idea:
pygame can render with TTF fonts,
it can also save surfaces in tga format.
Then use PIL to convert to gif. The only
question is, can pygame do this without displaying
a window etc.

Simon Burton.




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 14:52:42 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:52:42 +0100
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <crtgnvgmvep2e8cr1rd6jdlpolmpcvg6sl@4ax.com> <7h365jb1lzo.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <iovgnv0f9vveg5m533och85a6ovkkihmgo@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:40:47 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:31:05 -0500, "Edward K. Ream"
>> <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:
>> 
>> >Any ideas for a clean solution?  Thanks.
>> 
>> I am not sure that I understand what you are saying, but I'll make a
>> quick suggestion...
>> 
>> Perhaps 'app' can be a global variable within 'leoGlobals', but
>> assigned the value 'None' when the module is imported. Your
>> initialisation code can then reassign the variable at the appropriate
>> time.
>
>This wont work.
>
>--- a.py --- 
>a = None
>--- b.py ---
>import a
>a.a = 1
>--- c.py ---
>from a import a
>import b
>print a
>
>running c.py will print "None".  Names, objects and bindings, remember
>:-)

Oops - I didn't realise import worked like that.

Thanks.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net  Thu Sep  4 20:16:50 2003
From: juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net (Changjune Kim)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:16:50 +0900
Subject: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <bj8kmi$m2o$1@news.hananet.net>

"Patrick Useldinger" <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:opruzmelopdd8opo at news.vo.lu...
> Hi All,
>
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last
> few years, about Python or IT in general.
>
> -Patrick

The Nature of Order series (currently No. 1 is out).

It is a magnum opus. It will change your concept of "(Alexandrian)
patterns".

"... Book 2 alone is likely to change the whole field of Computer Science
... " --Richard Gabriel, Department of Computer Science, Stanford
University. (Richard's Patterns of Software, which has been openned on the
internet for free a few weeks ago, is also recommended)

With best regards,

June






From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 30 03:58:27 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:58:27 GMT
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <DIaeb.142010$hE5.4836948@news1.tin.it>

tertius wrote:

> Is there a better way to append certain chars in a string with a
> backslash that the example below?
> 
> chr = "#$%^&_{}"          # special chars to look out for
> str = "123 45^ & 00 0_"   # string to convert
> n = ""                    # init new string
> for i in str:
>      if i in chr:          # if special character in str
>          n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
>      n+=i
> print "old:",str
> print "new:",n

If you can afford some a priori preparation, make a dictionary
once and for all that maps each character (that isn't to be
represented by itself) to the string that represents it.  E.g.,
if you inevitably start with a chr string as above, you can
make the dictionary as follows:

charmap = {}
for c in chr: charmap[c] = c+'\\'

You can also write out the dict literal directly, and in
any case you only need to prepare this charmap once and
can then use it to prepare any number of translations.

Once you have this charmap, you can use its get method to
get the translations -- and prepare a *LIST OF STRINGS* to
be joined up at the end, that's MUCH, *MUCH* faster than
a loop using += on a string:

pieces = [charmap.get(c,c) for c in str]

and finally:

n = ''.join(pieces)


Alex




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 17:17:55 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:17:55 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <mailman.1063659502.2922.python-list@python.org> <tmH9b.79$2k.36@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <potemv8qlj13sssumpjtidrm0gt5vmubbi@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:06:00 +0300, rumours say that Harri Pesonen
<fuerte at sci.fi> might have written:

>There is no object-level locking in my proposal. Just independent 
>free-threaded interpreters, which don't see the objects of other 
>interpreters at all.

What's the point in using threads then?  Threading implies easy access
to shared data.

>There could be an extra global interpreter state for shared-memory 
>object access. Accessing this would always be synchronized, but only 
>this. Python would automatically copy data from this state to 
>thread-local state and back when needed. This would require a special 
>syntax for variables in global state:

>synchronize a = "asdf"

In *this* case, POSH (or similar shared memory mechanisms) and multiple
processes should be a simpler solution.  UNIX systems have managed for
decades to work very well without any threading mechanisms.  pipe() and
fork() are quite older than threads and queues! :)

I do know the usefulness of threads, and I do use them [1].  But,
re-read what you wrote above, and please explain: what in your opinion
is the advantage of multiple threads over multiple processes in this
case?



[1] For example, I have a script that collects data over XML-RPC from
other machines in my company's network, does a little processing on the
data (mostly calculating md5 sums) and reads and writes local files;
when running on a 2x500MHz P3 Linux, I've seen it reach up to 134%
(command 'top' shows full utilisation of *one* CPU as 100%); running on
a 2x1GHz P3 W2k machine, task manager shows up to 74% (with a lower
averaging interval, peaks are easier to spot).  Think I would do better
without the GIL?
In the few cases where I would love to have "free" threading in Python
(eg an image comparison script of mine), I have already implemented the
heavy calculations in C, allowing python threads in the meanwhile.
Threads are most useful when doing mostly CPU-intensive calculations;
Python is not created for these, but it is an excellent glue language.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 15 03:18:45 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:18:45 +0200
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
References: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bk3p5l$f0$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> My apologies for a somewhat silly posting, but after 6 years of hacking
> Python, I finally found a use for lambda!  I wanted to write a unit test
> to prove that a given dictionary does not have a given key.  Since
> assertRaises requires its second argument to be something callable,
> instead of writing:
> 
>         self.assertRaises (KeyError, foo['bar'])
> 
> I had to write:
> 
>         self.assertRaises (KeyError, lambda: foo['bar'])
> 
> Of course, now that I think about it, I could have also written:
> 
>         self.assertEqual (foo.has_key ('bar')), 0)

This is not strictly equivalent, i. e. for a custom dictionary you should
perform both tests. If assertEqual() is sufficient, then how about 

self.failIf("bar" in foo)

which seems as explicit as you can get without using plain english.

> so I guess I didn't really need the lambda after all :-)

Same goes for me since I converted from map() to list comprehensions.

Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 17 13:22:14 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:22:14 +0200
Subject: fast way to filter a set?
References: <ef08387c.0309170801.4b299cf7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bka59g$gnl$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Fortepianissimo wrote:

> I know I can do things like
> 
> s=Set(range(1,11))
> s=Set(filter(lambda x:x%2==0,s))
> 
> But this seems a bit slow since filter returns a list which then must
> be converted back to a set. Any tips? Thanks!

The Set constructor accepts any iterable, so you can do it all with
iterators instead of temporary lists:

from sets import Set
from itertools import ifilter

s = Set(range(1, 11))
print Set(ifilter(lambda x: x % 2 == 0, s))

Peter




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 14:20:22 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:20:22 -0400
Subject: Memory allocation
References: <mailman.1064248351.18500.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6F3D66.6EFF21B6@engcorp.com>

"Batista, Facundo" wrote:
> 
> How could I know how much memory uses an object?
> 
> Something like:
> 
> >> a = [66]
> >> memused(a)
> n

Can you provide more background on the specific problem you need
to solve, or are you looking for a very general solution?  In 
other words, do you just need to know how much memory a list, or
an integer uses up, or do you think you need a general-purpose
function which works with any object of any type.

And in the above example, would you be interested in the memory 
used by the integer 66, or the memory used by the list that contains 
a reference to that integer, or the combined total?

-Peter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Sep 14 18:41:43 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:41:43 -0400
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <vm9rlt168fcp03@news.supernews.com>

"Tobiah" <toby at rcsreg.com> wrote in message
news:0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a at news.teranews.com...
> Ok,
>
> I miss the idiom that my other languages use,
> something like:
>
>
> while( foo = getmore()){
> process(foo);
> }
>
>
> I can't seem to do this in python without gagging:
>
> foo = getmore()
> while foo:
> process(foo)
> foo = getmore()
>
>
> Is that what ppl do?  The manual sez that this is
> so that newbs won't do:
>
> if foo = bar:
> process()
>
> thinking that they are checking for equality.
> I feel that in a few ways python suffers by catering
> to the uninitiated.  Usually however, there are
> great workarounds (or even plain better ways to do the job),
> which I am hopeful will be yielded by the list, as has
> been it's record thus far to do.

While one of Guido's reasons for not including assignment
as an expression was to avoid errors (and that's not always
a novice error,) Python provides similar functionality in the
'for' statement. In C, C++ and Java, 'for' is basically
syntactic sugar around a loop, in Python, it actually does
an assignment of the next element of a sequence.

Your example could be:

for foo in getmore:
    process(foo)

as long as getmore is either a sequence or implements the
iterator protocol.

This isn't a total replacement for assignment as an expression,
but it does cover the overwhelming majority of use cases.

John Roth


>
> Thanks,
>
> Tobiah
>





From simonb at webone.com.au  Sat Sep 20 02:52:23 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:52:23 +1000
Subject: spam killing with poplib
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.20.06.52.21.266409@webone.com.au>

This was so easy :)

Simon Burton.


#!/usr/bin/env  python

import sys
from time import sleep
from poplib import *

canit = """Newest Internet Critical Pack
New Internet Upgrade
Message: User unknown
Last Net Critical Patch
last pack
error notice
Failure Advice
failure message
Bug Message
Newest Internet Critical Pack
Advice
last net security pack
Latest Microsoft Security Upgrade
Latest Upgrade
Last Network Critical Update
Current Net Security Pack
new net pack
Last Network Security Pack
Security Pack
Security Update
Critical Upgrade
Undelivered Message
Security Upgrade
Net Update
security pack
Bug Letter
Network Pack
New Net Update
""".split("\n")[:-1]
#print canit
#sys.exit(0)


def doit():
  mbox = POP3( "pop.webone.com.au" )
  
  mbox.user( "XXX" )
  mbox.pass_( "XXX" )
  
  stat = mbox.stat()
  print "stat",stat
  
  ilist = mbox.list()
  olist = []
  for info in ilist[1]:
    info = str.split( info )
    i, sz = int(info[0]), int(info[1])
    spam = 0
    print "msg #%.3d\t%d"%( i, sz )
    header = mbox.top( i, 0 )[1]
    subject = ""
    sender = ""
    for line in header:
      #print "\t",line
      if line.startswith( "From:" ):
        sender = line
      if line.startswith( "Subject:" ):
        subject = line
      if line.startswith( "SUBJECT:" ):
        subject = line
      if line.startswith( "X-Spam-Level" ):
        spam = line.count( "*" )
    if subject:
      print "  "+subject
    if sender:
      print "  ", sender
    print "  spam", spam
    sz_chk = 140000<sz<170000 # check for this size range
    if sz_chk:
      print "  sz_chk"
      spam += 1
    for can in canit:
      if subject.count(can):
        print "  can it: '%s'"%can
        spam += 1
    print "  spam", spam
    if spam > 2: # life is harsh
      print "  dele"
      #mbox.dele( i ) # uncomment when you are ready

  print "quit"
  mbox.quit()


while 1:
  print 
  doit()
  sleep(90)




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Sep 30 13:21:45 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:21:45 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.2, release candidate 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064918443.1515.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064918443.1515.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f79bba8$0$58712$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Anthony Baxter wrote:
> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
> happy to announce the release of Python 2.3.2 (release candidate 1).

Thankfully it appears that there's not too much wrong
with 2.3.1, is there? I just upgraded :-)

Anyway, the docs (on windows) read "Release 2.4a0"...
has this been addressed in the docs packaged with 2.3.2?

Not that this is a big issue-- but it is a bit confusing.

--Irmen de Jong




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 06:39:37 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:39:37 GMT
Subject: Output in color
References: <mailman.1062707716.17757.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <JJZ5b.16922$hE5.603904@news1.tin.it>

Bradford Powers wrote:

> I'm curious how I can make Python print text in color.

That depends strictly on your printer.  With my hp LaserJet 1200,
no way -- not even Python's power can overcome the hardware's
limitations in this regard... it's a black-and-white printer and
that's all there is to it!  If I did have a color printer, then
I would have Python produce the appropriate postscript code, or
"escape-sequences" in whatever printer-specific language a given
printer requires to have it output color text (or, depending on my
operating system, printer driver, filters, etc, I might have to
send appropriate "escape-sequences" or whatever to the DRIVER in
order to convince it to drive the printer appropriately).

Much the same holds if you're using "printing" in the vague
sense in which Python itself uses it in the keyword "print"
(which I detest and consider a wart, albeit shared by such
diverse languages as Python, Perl, C, Fortran, etc): it all
depends on what device (physical hardware one, or one in some
part simulated by software) you're outputting to.

For example,

print '\033[1;31mciao!'

will set all text emitted henceforward to red _IF_ the
terminal (or emulator thereof) on which the text is being
written is ANSI compliant.


Alex




From zefram at wolverine.lohacker.invalid  Fri Sep 12 10:30:41 2003
From: zefram at wolverine.lohacker.invalid (Emmanuele Bassi)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:30:41 GMT
Subject: pygtk clist usage
References: <vFqdnf3p0PyDIcOiXTWJhw@fcc.net> <Xyz7b.8398$NW3.3367@news1.central.cox.net> <aW-dnTsEk5eRI_yiXTWJkw@fcc.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbm3m51.dtm.zefram@wolverine.lohacker.net>

* Ted Holden [2003-09-12 14:28]:

>> BTW, CList is deprecated (meaning it will go away in the next major gtk
>> release).  ListStore/TreeView can be a bit hard to make the transition to,
>> though, as the documentation is rather scattered and fragmentary.  Best
>> sources of info are...
> 
> I've been trying to take a look at the TreeView/ListStore model.  I mean,
> you've gotta be kidding.  Who do you expect to want to try to figure that
> out in order to use a simple listbox?  

I did, and I do. In C, Python and (yuk) Perl.

The basics of the MVC (model/viewer/controller) paradigm are fully
graspable in less than 15 minutes (at least, that's how much I had to
spend learning them - and I did not know anything about MVC).  The power
of a MVC system, with customisable models and renderers outweights the
underlying complexity.  Alas, the TreeView/TreeModel pair isn't quite as
fast as CTree/CList, so you need some tricks when dealing with large
models, but for simple listboxes, I've never seen any performance
problem whatsoever.

Creating a simple listbox takes no more than 20 lines of code, callbacks
not included.  You could create a class that covers everything you might
want, and reuse it (or submit it to the pygtk mailing list) thoughout a
project or in multiple projects.

> Other than that, I'm seeing a conceptual problem with the pygtk
> documentation is that it appears to all be oriented towards coding gtk
> objects by hand.

I do my coding exactely like this.  I prefer this way, since Glade it's
not flexible enough for me.

> The idea of coding guis by hand is probably unacceptable to most people at
> this point.

Having a(nother) library to depend on when distributing an application,
and an XML file sitting around in order to create the UI, may be
unacceptable to many people.  Your point is?

Bye,
 Emmanuele.

-- 
Emmanuele Bassi            |       [ http://digilander.libero.it/ebassi/ ]
emmanuele.bassi(at)iol.it  |     Linux User #170621, http://counter.li.org
GnuPG Key fingerprint = 4DD0 C90D 4070 F071 5738  08BD 8ECC DB8F A432 0FF4



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep 25 10:50:17 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:50:17 +0200
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f72eb7c$0$29964$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <bkuvdk$qpf$01$1@news.t-online.com>

ataraxia2500 wrote:

> I get that weird error when I tried to run the little loop, this is what
> it says:
> 
> sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xa0' in file myloop.py on
> line 3, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps
> pep-0263.html for details
>   File "myloop", line 3
>     os.system('/home/joe/src/myprog/myprog')
>     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> does it mean anything to you?


The whitespace before os.system() consists of '\xa0' characters, no idea
why.

However, I have noticed that when I copy and paste from KNode 7.2 using
Strg+C/Strg+V instead of the middle mouse button, all '\xa0' are magically
converted back to old '\x20' space characters.

Peter





From bwglitch at hotpop.com  Sat Sep 27 15:19:09 2003
From: bwglitch at hotpop.com (BW Glitch)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 12:19:09 -0700
Subject: Microbiology and/or image analysis tools
Message-ID: <45bbfad.0309271119.386ded65@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

I've been searching on the web for microbiology and or image analysis
tools in any language (but I would prefer to be in Python ;), but I
haven't found anything useful. Almost every library I've found is
commercial. The only one I've seen open source is OpenEV (
http://openev.sourceforge.net/ ).

Is there any library open source available in these areas?

Thank you very much,

Andres Rosado



From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Sep  7 13:17:32 2003
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 17:17:32 GMT
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <vlm5h1e76u5m00@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjf0i8.1fo.1@kserver.org>

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:42:19 +0100, "Tim Parkin"
<tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list at python.org>:

> Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it's a
> proposal and a work in progress. As constructive comments go the only
> feedback I have gathered is that the fonts are too small and the
> contrast is
> a little low. I've adjusted contrast on key elements and also increased
> the
> font size. These pages are here :
> 
> http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2.html
> http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior-2.html
> 
> also bearing in mind that the html page will be accessible and hence
> allow
> text resizing here is a sample of +1 text size.
> 
> http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2larger.html
> http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior-2larger.html

My suggestions:

Go with the +1 font size as the default. The tinier font is nice for
fitting lots of data into a page, but not so good for readability.

Also, on the content pages put more white space between lines (i.e. the
vertical number of pixels between the bottom of one line and the top of the
next).


-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Mon Sep  1 05:14:53 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 11:14:53 +0200
Subject: Advice to a Junior in High School?
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <rovqkvsim4lm2mbt3rh7qq6jvte71m4ruq@4ax.com> <roy-09386C.08591628082003@reader2.panix.com> <7h3k78x66jt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <tyfznhozx82.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> I'm sure there are people who learnt ML during the CS program at
> Cambridge more than five years ago...

Indeed, they were definitely teaching ML as the first language 15
years ago, and it wasn't a new policy at the time.



From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Thu Sep  4 06:11:30 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 03:11:30 -0700
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.09.03.23.24.03.438382@harobed.org>
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309040211.2bfaeea2@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all.

To:John J.Lee
I download 'venster' and test a small samples. I think it's good idea
for python GUI.
I has use MFC, but I don't like MFC framework. but I like VENSTER's
way. I only need
make GUI by VC. and write code in python . that code very clear and
obvious. I'll test
for complete project. anyone has make project to do it?   thank you.

To: Mark Roach

I has read this article. It's same as my idea. But the code sample is
make a foo button
in wxWindows ,use swig link to wxpython. I don't know if I make a
frame in wxWindows.
Can I use it in wxPython.  Who test it?  thank you.

To:Jim Dabell 

I download pyQt ,But I hasn't test it. QT is C++ GUI framework. It's
very cool too.

To:Brian Kelley

sorry about my poor english.
I say 'slow'. It's mean wxPython application start up very slow and
use big memory.
core python code very quick. I use thread. Because Bit-torrent is a
P2P program.
it's have many intercurrent internet connection for download and
upload.

>>I'll assume that your bit-torrent code has a pretty simple
interface,
>>such as "download this file to here", "I'm X percent done" and
"cancel
>>the download"
~~~~~ you are right. I only need get these information from
bit-torrent .
It's use a function to communicate with GUI and core program.

If you should post you code . I very thank you. I like study with you.
thank you.

To:Harobed 
I didn't test pyGTK. thank you.

Ulysses



From johnp at reportlab.com  Wed Sep 24 06:54:26 2003
From: johnp at reportlab.com (John Precedo)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:54:26 +0100
Subject: Barcode generator for Python?
Message-ID: <GBEDIFFLINCAGNCJCLIFCEBFFFAA.johnp@reportlab.com>

jennyw said in a recent posting to the python list:
> Does anyone know of a barcode generator for Python?  I'm looking to do
> this on Windows. It would be nice to find something free, but that's not
> necessary (so long as it's reasonable).  It doesn't have to be
> Python-specific, either, so long as I can call it from Python.  I'd love
> to hear any suggestions.

The reportlab open source toolkit has a very nice barcode widget. It's
capable of creating the following
	I2of5
	MSI
	Codabar
	Code 11
	Code 39
	Extended Code 39
	Code93
	Extended Code93
	Code 128
	USPS FIM
	USPS POSTNET

This isn't actually included in the standard distribution. It is a third
party extension package written by
Tyler C. Sarna <tsarna at sarna.org> - you can download it from
http://www.reportlab.com/extensions.html.

By default, the open source toolkit creates PDF files, but if you use the
graphics subpackage you can create bitmaps (GIF, Jpegs, PNG etc) using the
renderPM renderer.

If all you want is some barcodes done as images, this may be overkill (by
quite a large amount). However, if you need to create PDF files, or need to
create other graphics and charts as bitmap images as well as barcodes then
it may be the exact solution you are looking for.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
John

--
John Precedo  (johnp at reportlab.com)    Developer
Reportlab Europe Ltd  (http://www.reportlab.com)





From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Tue Sep  2 16:07:19 2003
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:07:19 -0400
Subject: win32com problems with Visible property
References: <f431a335.0309020839.486b6f92@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vl9u4v1m3gli52@corp.supernews.com>

"Rebecca Taylor" <jrbexbox at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f431a335.0309020839.486b6f92 at posting.google.com...
> I have been working with win32com on python for 2 years now.  I
> recently tried to modify an older script I had made which creates and
> excel workbook, fills it with data and then graphs the data.
>
> Nothing is working!
> When I try to run it I get this error:
>
> "Property '%s.%s' can not be set." % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: Property 'Excel.Application.visible' can not be set."
>
> Does anyone know why this is happening?  I can't figure out if windows
> has changed or if win32all or the new python distribution is the
> problem.  Worse yet, I reinstalled my old versions of python and
> win32all and that isn't working either!

The property is named 'Visible', not 'visible'.

When makepy is run, COM identifiers become case-sensitive.  Perhaps your old
installation of win32com hadn't been makepy-ified, but the new one has?

See:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=excel+case+sensitive+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*+group:comp.lang.python.*&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.python.*&safe=off&sa=G

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=6eaef82c8c0d9548&seekm=1c057c8e.0307171643.486e9678%40posting.google.com#link
13





From mn-nospam at cs.york.ac.uk  Thu Sep 11 06:38:06 2003
From: mn-nospam at cs.york.ac.uk (Mark Nelson)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:38:06 +0100
Subject: Building Imaging-1.1.4 on Solaris 9
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.11.10.38.06.137465@cs.york.ac.uk>

Hi 

I'm trying to build Imaging 1.1.4 in Solaris 9, I get passwd the first
step i.e the building of libImging.  However when I execute a python
setup.py build I get the following error - 

gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.9-sun4u-2.2/_imaging.o build/temp.solaris-2.9-s
un4u-2.2/decode.o build/temp.solaris-2.9-sun4u-2.2/encode.o build/temp.solaris-2
.9-sun4u-2.2/map.o build/temp.solaris-2.9-sun4u-2.2/display.o build/temp.solaris
-2.9-sun4u-2.2/outline.o build/temp.solaris-2.9-sun4u-2.2/path.o -LlibImaging -l
Imaging -ljpeg -lz -o build/lib.solaris-2.9-sun4u-2.2/_imaging.so
Text relocation remains                         referenced
    against symbol                  offset      in file
<unknown>                           0x14c       libImaging/libImaging.a(Unpack.o
)
<unknown>                           0x150       libImaging/libImaging.a(Unpack.o
)
<unknown>                           0x154       libImaging/libImaging.a(Unpack.o
)
<unknown>                           0x158       libImaging/libImaging.a(Unpack.o
)
<unknown>                           0x15c       libImaging/libImaging.a(Unpack.o
)
<unknown>                           0x160       libImaging/libImaging.a(Unpack.o
)


I have used the additional installation instructions as layed out in the
README, I'm using gcc-3.2.2 and python 2.2.2

Any Ideas?


Mark.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------
Mark Nelson -
White Rose Grid, Department of Computer Science,
University of York Heslington, York, YO10 5DD 




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Sep 26 10:48:44 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:48:44 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
>>> And I still think you don't need it often enough to put it in the
>>> builtin namespace, so the function should go in the itertools module.
>> 
>> If you have a magic method, __riter__, then the corresponding
>> function needs to be a builtin.  They go hand in hand.  The
>> core parts of the language need to be usable without having
>> to know about itertools.
>
> I have already seen module copy presented as a counter-example to
> your assertion, and I'd like to add module pickle as a second, and
> I hope decisive, counter-example.  It is, to put it simply, utterly
> false that functions corresponding to magic methods "need to be
> builtins": it's *perfectly* all right for such functions to live
> in standard library modules.  Oh, and let's not forget module sets:
> the __as_immutable__ and __as_temporarily_immutable__ magic methods,
> that are used when making a set of sets, or checking for a set's
> membership in another set, can be seen as yet another example (and
> in this case there is no wiggling out of it by claiming that the
> magicmethod/NON-builtin correspondence is a historical/legacy thing,
> as the BDFL approved module sets.py, with just this usage, so very
> recently).
>
> I second the motion that function riter, with check for __riter__
> and all, should live in module itertools.  Reverse iteration is a
> RARE need -- far rarer than copying or even pickling -- and there
> is no real reason to burden __builtins__ with a function for it.

Is there any concern about the fact that a sequence of direction
changes requires building a new iterator object each time under this
proposal?  I was going to implement my own bidirectional iteration
protocol by using a prev() method and use an adaptor object to swap
the meaning of next() and prev().  Python iterators (and GoF
iterators) seem poorly suited as pure sequence position indicators
because you can't reposition them without also accessing elements, so
maybe this is not such a serious issue... but my instincts tell me
that the identity of a bidirectional iterator object could be useful
if we allow the same one to be used in both directions.

FWIW, burdening builtins aside I consider the proposed syntax

      for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():

much uglier than

     for i in reverse_view(xrange(n)):

but far superior to

     for i in reverse(xrange(n)):

which implies in-place modification of the sequence.

Also, the idea of denying tuples the ability to reverse iterate seems
arbitrary and capricious.

Cheers,
-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From lutz at rmi.net  Mon Sep 22 17:56:59 2003
From: lutz at rmi.net (Mark Lutz)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 14:56:59 -0700
Subject: Python training in Colorado, Oct 7-9
Message-ID: <mailman.1064271307.17278.clpa-moderators@python.org>

I am holding another 3-day Python class
in Longmont, Colorado, on October 7-9.
This is a public class, open to individual
enrollments, and covers the same topics as
the on-site classes I teach.  For more
details, please see this page:

http://www.rmi.net/~lutz/oct03-longmont-class.html

Thanks for your interest.
--Mark Lutz  (http://www.rmi.net/~lutz)




From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Sep  1 15:16:24 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:16:24 +0100
Subject: artificial intelligence
References: <mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list@python.org> <bivjim$u9t$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> <hrdc21-ce3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <bj05nn$3a0$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Dennis Lee Bieber" <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:hrdc21-ce3.ln1 at beastie.ix.netcom.com...
> Duncan Smith fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 01 September 2003
> 07:06 am:
>
>
> >
> > It can do, and I've no doubt some of it does.  Spam filtering is a
> > classification problem and can be handled in a variety of ways.  It's
> > generally easy to come up with an overly complex set of rules / model
> > that
> > will correctly classify sample data.  But (as you know) the idea's to
> > come up with a set of rules / model that will correctly (as far as
> > possible)
> > classify future data.  As many spam filters use Bayesian methods, I
> > would guess that they might be fitted using Bayesian methods; in which
> > case overly complex models can be (at least partially) avoided through
> > the choice of prior, rather than significance testing.
> >
> > What do Amazon use?  My guess (unless it's something really naive)
> > would be association rules.
> >
>         If I may insert an off-the-cuff comment...
>
>         The goal of spam filtering is normally to reduce the amount of
traffic
> permitted through to the client.
>
>         However, Amazon's goal would seem to be to increase the potential
> sales. Hence, I'd suspect their algorithm is rigged on a quite
> optimisitic mode (Hey, out of set A and set B, we have an overlap of
> x... maybe we can increase x by suggesting that set A would like the
> stuff from set B...)
>

Absolutely.  I'd be interested to know exactly how they try going about this
(although I don't suppose they'd make it public).  I'd guess that for 'very
low' and 'very high' values of x the increase in sales would be less than
for 'middling' values of x.

Duncan





From koen_van_herck at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 22 04:54:18 2003
From: koen_van_herck at yahoo.com (Koen Van Herck)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 01:54:18 -0700
Subject: Retrieve class name of caller
References: <6512ed42.0309190035.303ba9f1@posting.google.com> <bkeuos$18vsv$1@sinclair.be.wanadoo.com>
Message-ID: <6512ed42.0309220054.6bea1fc2@posting.google.com>

Bertrand Geston <bergeston at yahoo.fr> wrote in message news:<bkeuos$18vsv$1 at sinclair.be.wanadoo.com>...
> Koen Van Herck wrote:
> > For debugging/logging purposes, I have a function
> > 
> > def Log(msg):
> >     print '%s.%s: %s' % (cls, method, msg)
> > 
> > I call this function from a class method, and I would like to retrieve
> > the name of the caller method and its class. I already came up with
> > 
> > method = sys._getframe(1).f_code.co_name
> > cls = sys._getframe(1).f_locals['self'].__class__
> > 
> > I wonder if there are better ways to retrieve this info. In
> > particular, my implementation assumes that the instance parameter of
> > the method is called 'self', which it usually is, of course.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Koen.
> 
> Take look to the inspect module. Could be what you need (and even more).

OK. But if I have the frame or code object, how can I get the method
or function object? For example, for a method m I have code object c:

c = m.im_func.func_code

How can I find m from c ?



From rune.hansen at viventus.no  Sat Sep 27 20:33:23 2003
From: rune.hansen at viventus.no (Rune Hansen)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:33:23 +0200
Subject: unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
In-Reply-To: <m3ad8qa1t2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no> <bl3r3r$dno$05$1@news.t-online.com> <m3ad8qa1t2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <o%pdb.26285$os2.362461@news2.e.nsc.no>

Hi Martin, you raise a very interesting question(at least for me it is :-).
The, otherwise, excelent support people at Stalker (it's a CommuniGate 
pro server I'm speaking to) has me totally confused.

What I tried to do was to send a quoteattr(u'string') (using quoteattr 
from sax). The server was very happy with this, showing the accented 
characters, when viewed in a telnet session, as human readable text. 
This, it became apparent, was obviously wrong. The data was garbled when 
viewing it in the web interface.

Stalker told me to send the  letter "?" as \248 or as xf8 (notice  the 
missing "\"). At this point I'm sending 
quoteattr(unicode('string',"iso-8859-1).encode("utf-8")) which is 
neither of the above.(..?).
Anyway, the  server is still happy, and the data views correctly in the 
web interface.

Stalker provides a perl and java API for the telnet server.  I don't 
read perl code very well, and the java API is distributed as .class 
files(nothing new there, it's java after all) so I really don't know how 
Stalker is handling it.

regards

/rune

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> 
> 
>>I see your problem is already solved
> 
> 
> I'm quite uncertain as to what the solution is, though - or perhaps
> what the problem is. The OP said that the telnet server expects
> backslash characters in the data stream (atleast I interpreted his
> message that way), but then he was happy with an approach that did not
> send backslash characters.
> 
> Perhaps the telnet server really expects latin-1, in which case
> encoding the Unicode string in that encoding, or in iso-8859-15,
> would work fine most of the time.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Sep  5 11:11:59 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 17:11:59 +0200
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
References: <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <yra3b.6546$Jh2.2048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <23891c90.0308280317.ac68b38@posting.google.com> <Kv-cnVDMbb1qmdOiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <biqve2$qp0$1@panix1.panix.com> <bj9jrv$95r$1@news.hccnet.nl> <tyf3cfbpjbm.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <bja9ik$iet$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote:

>anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:
>
>> -If microsoft hadn't stalled progress in software development by
>> hiding the algorithms used for their software we would *now* be
>> there where we will be in twenty years.
>
>I think that Microsoft has stalled progress, not by hiding any
>worderful technology that they might have, but by making the vast
>majority of users accept sub-mediocrity as the norm.

Maybe the average computer user doesn't care how software programs are
written and will accept mediocre software. However if sourcecode is
available some portion of the users will repair bugs or fork into a
better branch.

>They have run a hugely successful advertising campaign for the whole
>concept of sub-mediocrity; the desire for quality is what has
>suffered. By doing so, they have greatly influenced the direction of
>progress and of the meaning of "better". In the Microsoft mindset
>"better" means that the bouncy paperclip moves more smoothly, and can
>now do the cha-cha as well as the samba ... while it remains perfectly
>acceptable to have to reboot the computer each time you want to
>install a new piece of software.

Since you're humoring me and accept "what if" scenarios I don't feel
like criticizing. However we should not be ungrateful to Microsoft
since one way or the other they have provided us with at least one
possible branch of software development. As wrong as it is to
contemplate Microsofts accomplishments and compare it with the "no
software at all" scenario, it is also wrong to assume it was the best
possible path taken. As insight into these matters matures we now know
with the benefit of hindsight that proprietary standards and closed
source suck. We should keep the option open for Microsoft to better
their ways however far they have strayed from the path and even if
they are prone to reverting to the embrace and extend pitfall. This
*does* imply to be wary though if they're turning around and come
back.

Anton



From mwh at python.net  Tue Sep 16 12:32:32 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:32:32 GMT
Subject: Internal Debugger Question
References: <6ee58e07.0309120604.3a1f4985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3r82gem0k.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) writes:

> i'm currently writing a debugger for python and found that some
> modules store an absolute file path in "co_filename" of there
> methods/functions and some store a relative file path. Because the
> relative file path can never be expanded to an absolute file path
> later (the sys.path may have changed) it is impossible to find the
> source code location.
> 
> Is there anything i have missed or is this simply a bug. I would
> highly recommend to fix this bug !

I belive this is one of the oldest open bug reports on SF... I spent a
few minutes looking at it, before deciding I didn't care enough to fix
it.  Your point of view may be different:

    http://python.org/sf/415492

Be warned, the import code is some of the most frightening (to me,
anyway) code in Python.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
48. The best book on programming for the layman is "Alice in
    Wonderland"; but that's because it's the best book on
    anything for the layman.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Sep 29 10:56:06 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:56:06 -0400
Subject: Wavelet package available?
References: <2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <z4adnU-lwpqa1eWiU-KYjA@comcast.com>

"Gez" <gez_75 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d at posting.google.com...
> Does anyone know if there is a wavelet package available for Python?
> This package should at least have the Daubechy wavelet.

Before posting a question like this and waiting hours for a reply, one
should try a search engine like Google.  In this case, "Python
wavelets"

If this fails, then post question and note what you tried without
success.  This tells responders both that you made an effort and also
what they should not waste time on in trying to help you.

Teaching-you-to-fish-ly yours,

Terry J. Reedy





From franke at ableton.com  Tue Sep 16 13:36:49 2003
From: franke at ableton.com (Stefan Franke)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:36:49 +0200
Subject: Variable lookup in calling context
Message-ID: <bk7hng$q5ca6$1@ID-105404.news.uni-berlin.de>

To access a calling function's locals I can use sys._getframe(1).f_locals.
But how do I perform a full variable lookup in the context of the caller
as if it happened there - including all surrounding scopes?

(BTW: Is inspect.currentframe preferable over sys._getframe?)

Stefan




From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Sat Sep 27 12:32:35 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:32:35 +0400
Subject: Saving Numeric arrays to file?
In-Reply-To: <bl2ktf$8lq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <bl2ktf$8lq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bl4e2u$1a7v$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Duncan Smith wrote:
> I am having problems saving arrays to file.  e.g.
[snipped]
> 

Maybe you'd better use pickle or cPickle modules?

anton.




From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Thu Sep 18 04:26:00 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:26:00 +0200
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com>
 <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com>
 <bk9sfo$55q$06$1@news.t-online.com>
 <95b4b9ac.0309171233.21f4c07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87llsma4fb.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth) writes:

> While we are at it, I also don't understand why sequences can't be
> used as indices. Why not, say, l[[2,3]] or l[(2, 3)]? Why a special 
> slice concept? To me, it's not just the step argument in the slice
> that is overkill... 

1. It will be more typing and harder to visually parse

    l[:3] would be l[(0, 3)]
    l[3:] would be l[(3,-1)]

2. Slicing two dimensional object will not be possible as the notion
   you proposed is used just for that (ex. l[1,2] which is equivallent
   to l[(1,2)] see below), and Numeric and numarray use it. See what
   happens with an object which on indexing just returns the index

>>> class C:
...     def __getitem__(self, i): return i
... 
>>> c = C()
>>> c[3]
3
>>> c[:3]
slice(0, 3, None)
>>> # multi dimensional indexing
>>> c[1,3]
(1, 3)
>>> c[1:3,3:5]
(slice(1, 3, None), slice(3, 5, None))

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From eltronic at juno.com  Sun Sep 21 11:44:08 2003
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:44:08 -0400
Subject: Anyone has "pyuploader.zip" from Parnassus ?
Message-ID: <20030921.114410.-518819.1.eltronic@juno.com>

On 19 Sep 2003 11:42:59 GMT Fred Pacquier
<xnewsNOSPAM at fredpNOSPAM.lautre.net> writes:
> Hi,
> 
> For my education I'd like to take a peek at "CGI Uploader", an old 
> script 
> that can be found on Vaults Of Parnassus ( 
> http://py.vaults.ca/apyllo.py?find=uploader ).
> 
> Unfortunately that is hosted on Parnassus itself :
> http://www.vex.net/~x/python_stuff.html
> 
> I can access the page itself, but no file linked 
> there will actually download. 

<http://web.archive.org/web/20021225214317/http://www.vex.net/~x/archive.
py/pyupload.zip >last archive around feb/2003
yeh wayback! they don't always archive archives, 
maybe only if they are small enough. its the first 
place to look if you need to look at some page that
no longer exists, or to see what an earlier version
of the page looks like.
when persistence is futile use the wayback machine.



e
please forward all spam  to "me"<uce at ftc.gov>
is it time yet to mangle all emails as 
the signup page claims this mailing list will do?

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!




From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Thu Sep 18 21:09:04 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:09:04 -0400
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
Message-ID: <000701c37e4a$9ea15a00$0c02a8c0@Arts>

Ron writes -

>But the CP4E slogan is using hyperbole to make a memorable >point...that
programming can be usefully extended to a far greater >audience.

You're a tough man to disagree with.  I had a long response prepared  (we
actually seem to have a lot in common), but in the end it really is just a
matter of one's taste for slogans, and more specifically for hyperbole in
slogans.  Probably nothing much more to it than that.

Nietzische meant exactly what he said and said exactly what he meant.

Having read a line, once.

Or that was the effort, at least.

When we approach the field of edcuation, and when we approach it
specifically advocating more and better programming education, I think we
should approach it saying what we mean and meaning what we say.

Would be a style with which I, personally,  am more comfortable, anyway.


Art





From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep 30 17:32:48 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 23:32:48 +0200
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com> <m3vfrea6fu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <ipchnv4a995l1r55rvkfevk2r4ot8cm4bv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3oex2dksf.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> >_tkinter built fine for me, with Python 2.3.1, on a Debian/ia64
> >system.  If it was not built for you, most likely, you forgot to
> >install the header files.
> 
> The header files were there (/usr/lib/tcl)

Why are the header files in /usr/lib/tcl???? Which header files
specifically? If the header files where installed properly, they would
live in /usr/include, somewhere, either /usr/include/tcl.h, or
/usr/include/tcl84/tcl.h. setup.py would never look for header files
in /usr/lib.

Regards,
Martin



From herrn at gmx.net  Wed Sep 10 15:32:02 2003
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:32:02 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <1063139737.1862.5.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>
References: <20030909194508.GV16821@incise.org> <1063139737.1862.5.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20030910193202.GA2136@darkstar.localdomain.fake>

Hi,

On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 01:35:37PM -0700, Chad Netzer wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 12:45, Nick Welch wrote:
> > Although this all seems really dirty to me.  Maybe there are better ways
> > to do it.
> 
> The first form, using getattr, is perfectly idiomatic, and that is what
> I use.
> 
> Also, regarding the earlier import question, there is the builtin
> __import__ function:

Yes! That is exactly what I was searching for. That helps a lot to me.
Thanks.

I already searched for everything that has anything to do with modules,
but I never ran across __import__(). It seems that I am searching not
effectively enough. I am not very familiar with python, so can you give
some tips on how to search for functions or modules to use, when I have
a specific problem to solve? What I mean is, you have helped me, but
without this list, I would have never found this solution. At what
places should one look, when he is searching for existing functions or
language features or the "python way" doing some things, aside from this
list of course. ;-)

Marco

-- 
The years of peak mental activity are undoubtedly between the ages of
four and eighteen.  At four we know all the questions, at eighteen all
the answers.

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 29 15:05:12 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:05:12 +0200
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <bl9sds$8b0$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bl9vs5$sim$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

Oops! My consideration does not work with 
from leoGlobals import * 
as the rebinding is not propagated. The following seems to work although I
do not know if this is approved Python:

leoGlobals.py, second try:
from leoApp import Application

class Dummy(object):
    pass

app = Dummy()

def createApp():
    app.__class__ = Application
    app.__dict__ = Application().__dict__


Peter



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Sep 24 05:57:18 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:57:18 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <f4b2nv8vs81v6egonckq7935jmh6a8gku6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2Udcb.1997$541.708@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Raymond Hettinger]
> >    for elem in seqn.iter_backwards():
> >        print elem

[Stephen Horne]
> That is a pretty long name. Can we use the convention from itertools
> where an 'i' prefix is sufficient to suggest an iterator, giving
> 'ibackwards' or 'ireverse' or similar.

That sounds reasonable to me.  I'll add that alternative to the PEP.

If the discussion on enumerate() is any indication, then the naming
discussion will be much more lively than on the idea itself.  Perhaps,
Alex will once again be able to suggest a musically perfect, beautiful
Italian name.

BTW, if you think iter_backwards is long, then take a look at some
of the method names in the sets module.


> Second, I'm not quite ready to drop my property idea ;-)
>
> An advantage is that the object returned by the property can sensibly
> support more than just iteration - e.g. slicing (as touched on in the
> PEP284 thread). So for instance...
>
> >>> x = range(10)
> >>> list(x.backward)
> [9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0]

I'm not clear on the details of what you're proposing.  What is
type(x.backward)?
Please show what a pure python version would look like
(taking UserList as an example).



> >* Should file objects be included?  Implementing reverse iteration may not
> >  be easy though it would be useful on occasion.
>
> IMO no - doing this essentially needs the whole file to be read into
> memory, in which case you may as well read the whole file into a list
> and then iterate the list backwards.

Oh, it could be done using seeks and whatnot;
however, the code might be grotesque.



> >* Should enumerate() be included?  It would only provide reverse iteration
> >  whenever the underlying sequence supported it.
>
> Why not...
>
>   for i, j in enumerate (listname.iter_backwards ()) :
>
> in other words, as enumerate can handle the already-reversed
> sequence/iteration, I don't see the point.

The point is that enumerate will starting numbering from zero
for the last item:

   >>> mystr = 'abc'
   >>> list(enumerate(mystr.iter_backwards()))
   [(0, 'c'), (1, 'b'), (2, 'a')]

If you want the indices to match their original position, then you
would need something like:

  >>> list(enumerate(mystr).iter_backwards())
 [(2, 'c'), (1, 'b'), (0, 'a')]

The implementation would need to access both mystr.iterbackwards()
and mystr.__len__().

At first glance, this is a can of worms, a pandora's box,
a gordian knot, or some unnamed code smell unsuitable
for this mixed metaphor.



Raymond Hettinger






From rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au  Sat Sep  6 01:27:19 2003
From: rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au (Chris)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 05:27:19 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com> <vlgkb4dtchna9e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <78e5340818d8ad47fde9693b0d79bed8@news.teranews.com>

Hi Cameron

Thanks for the interest.

when I say smallest footprint its because to me size does matter :)

I like my apps to be as small as possible for easy delivery. 

So for example if PERL "requires" the whole package to be present then
it would be too bloated 

I would like just a small as possible DLL or possibly statically link
the interpreter into my app with minimum external files

so my concerns are 
can it be done 
which will do it better
which will be faster. (some of the scripts will be called many times so
compounding speed is an issue) can I precompile to decrease load times ?
which will be the smallest in size?


Chris

claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in
news:vlgkb4dtchna9e at corp.supernews.com: 

> In article <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911 at news.teranews.com>,
> Chris  <rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au> wrote:
>                .
>                .
>                .
>>I am developing a software project where a major portion of it is to 
>>enable script access to c++ classes  
>>
>>The idea is to extend the basic functionality of the program by
>>allowing third parties to write add ons that are called by my c++
>>classes as virtual functions.
>                .
>                .
>                .
>>Given the above which interpreter is most likely to fit my bill with
>>the smallest footprint ?
>                .
>                .
>                .
> Let's be clear on what we're discussing.  When you write,
> "smallest footprint", do you seriously mean, "creates the
> smallest differential in the size of the resulting exe-
> cutable image"?  Frankly, that would surprise me; your
> project sounded interesting and useful up until those 
> last two words.  I don't mean to be harsh; unless there's
> something you're not telling us, though, the size of 
> executables-as-file-images is quite unlikely to be even
> the tenth most important aspect of your target.
> 
> I'll anticipate a bit more, and observe that Python is
> likely to be the better choice, because it remains easier
> for a newcomer to extend-or-embed (it's not clear that
> you've decided between these alternatives), at least until
> Perl 6 meets all its goals.




From simonb at webone.com.au  Wed Sep 10 21:50:59 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:50:59 +1000
Subject: metaclasses for type comparison
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.11.01.50.58.897682@webone.com.au>

In today's experiment, I was wondering if I could make the comparison
operators (<,<=,>=,>) work on classes (types) according to inheritance.

The idea is, for example, classes lower in the class hierarchy would be
less than (more specialized) than classes they inherit from.

class A(object):
  pass

class B(A):
  pass

B < A # should be True

In my first attempt I tried putting __lt__ into the class definition for A
and then assigning it as a staticmethod. This doesn't work, but something
was happening; <,<=,>=,> are still valid as applied to classes.

Because class is to instance as metaclass is to class, I found that the
place to put these methods is in the class' metaclass.

class MetaCMP(type):
  def __lt__(cls,other):
    for base in cls.__bases__:
      if type(base) != cls.__class__:
        continue
      if base <= other:
        return 1
    return 0

  def __le__(cls,other):
    if cls == other:
      return 1
    for base in cls.__bases__:
      if type(base) != cls.__class__:
        continue
      if base <= other:
        return 1
    return 0

  def __gt__(cls,other):
    for base in other.__bases__:
      if type(base) != cls.__class__:
        continue
      if cls >= base:
        return 1
    return 0

  def __ge__(cls,other):
    if cls == other:
      return 1
    for base in other.__bases__:
      if type(base) != cls.__class__:
        continue
      if cls >= base:
        return 1
    return 0

__metaclass__ = MetaCMP

Now, with the above code, we can replace a call to isinstance.

type( B() ) <= A # True

It seems natural enough to my math trained eye.

But now we have non-comparible objects, which confuses the sorting issue.

class C:
  pass

C < A # False
A < C # False

For example, if we wanted a "total" order ( always either X<=Y or Y<=X )
we could remove __ge__ and __gt__ from MetaCMP. It's not clear to me
exactly which comparison methods "list.sort" uses. (The ideal sort here is
the topological sort.)

I also thought about extending this order so that "B() <= A" would behave
the same way. It would be rather more strange. Is it so natural that an
instance is "smaller" than it's type? Perhaps; the instance can have
attributes that override it's type, which is reminiscent of some kinds of
inheritance.

Finally, the feature request. If "type" implemented these semantics for
comparison would it break existing code? Does anyone rely on "1<dict"
being True, or that we have a total order (one of "<","==" or ">" always
True) ? Another quandry is that one could just as naturally argue for the
reverse ordering.

Comments sought (can you guess what + might do to classes?).

Simon Burton.




From pweldon at mindspring.com  Sat Sep 20 10:37:45 2003
From: pweldon at mindspring.com (Phil Weldon)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:37:45 GMT
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
References: <G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ZCZab.45450$Aq2.39773@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>

It's a worm.  Worm.Automat.AGH.  This is going to be a bad one.  The worm
installs, among other things, an SMPT engine, searches an infected system
for email address, and sends two types of e-mail:  the first is HTML and is
a fake "security patch" supposedly from Microsoft.  It looks very official,
but the attachment, 104 KBytes long, is infectious.  Norton Antivirus
definitions only began to identify it with the 18SEP03 manual definition
update.  The worm also posts to usenet newsgroups.  The other type of e-mail
is a fake notification of undeliverable e-mail.  This one is a real bear.
There seem to be hundreds variations in the body content and thousands of
variations in the header.  The infectious package is also about 104 KBytes.
I'm getting nearly 100 of the two types per hour.  Norton Antivirus does not
detect the worm in usnet posts read by Outlook Express Newsreader or Outlook
Newsreader.  Only when you attempt to open the attachment or save the
attachment to disk will Norton identify it.  Norton will NOT detect the
virus in the newsgroup posts folder NOR will it detect the newsgroup folder
in a full system scan.  It will not remove the infected file from the
newsgroup folder, but it will prevent execution of the vermal payload.

Microsoft Outlook with the SP3 security update when used as your e-mail
reader protects against infection.  Prior to 18SEP03 Norton did not.

The worm is also retrieving additional variations, so you can expect the
payload size to begin changing soon.  The HTML message is easy to identify;
it is always the same (so far), and includes the phrase 'Run attached file'.
The bogus 'Undeliverable e-mail' variations have no commonality but the
payload attachment (that purports to be your bounced e-mail.)  This will
likley change soon.

My guess is that the internet will not open on Monday.

Phil Weldon, pweldon at mindspring.com

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:G6Zab.127313$R32.3854946 at news2.tin.it...
> All my mailboxes have been filling up with files of about 130k to 150k, no
> doubt copies of some immensely popular virus.  So, I've no doubt lost lots
> of real mail because of "mailbox full" conditions (the proliferating fake
> bounce messages more or less ensure nobody knows their mail to me has
> bounced, either).
>
> As an emergency response I and Anna developed, over the last half hour, a
> small Python script to be run from cron every few minutes and
automatically
> scrub any POP3 mailbox from files in the target size range.  I'm saving
them
> to a local file for potential later perusal, but that's obviously easy to
> comment out if needed.  Here's the tiny script in question...:
>
> import poplib
> import time
>
> print 'Start at', time.asctime()
>
> host = 'pop.mail.yahoo.com'
> port = 110
> user = 'aleaxit'
> pasw = 'secret'
>
> logfilename = 'bigjunk'
> minsize = 130000
> maxsize = 180000
> fromtag = 'From aleaxit at yahoo.com  %s\n'
>
> ps = poplib.POP3(host, port)
> ps.user(user)
> ps.pass_(pasw)
>
> messages = ps.list()
> print '%d messages, %d bytes' % (len(messages[1]), messages[-1])
>
> logfile = open(logfilename, 'a')
>
> for sms in messages[1]:
>     sid, ssize = sms.split()
>     if minsize <= int(ssize) < maxsize:
>         message = ps.retr(sid)
>         print 'retrieving and deleting msg#%s, %d bytes, %d lines' % (
>             sid, message[-1], len(message[1]))
>         logfile.write(fromtag % time.asctime())
>         for line in message[1]:
>             logfile.write(line)
>             logfile.write("\n")
>         logfile.write('\n')
>         ps.dele(sid)
>
> ps.quit()
>
> print 'Done at', time.asctime()
> print
>
>
> Hope it can come in useful to somebody...!!!
>
> Alex & Anna
>





From amonroejj at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 24 07:11:03 2003
From: amonroejj at yahoo.com (R. Alan Monroe)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:11:03 GMT
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
References: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com> <3f71361f$0$97182$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <bZecb.14514$KJ5.11624@fe2.columbus.rr.com>

In article <3f71361f$0$97182$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk>, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:

>> I intend to write both client and server in Python, and my main goal 
>> in the first cut is speed. Suggestions?

>Why do you need thousand of rows at the client? Normally you would get 
>the results in batches, so that you only transfer at most a few hundred 
>at a time to the client.

Those types of tests will be done in my second cut.


>Why not let the client ask directly if it is faster?

I thought that defeats the purpose of having 3 tiers. You'd have to 
update the client if/every time business rules changed. Unless I'm 
missing something. Links to tutorials welcome.

Alan



From mark at hahnca.com  Tue Sep 30 19:20:27 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:20:27 -0700
Subject: distutils (packaging) newbie questions please....
References: <bf23f78f.0309301511.376225b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2doeb.4608$hp5.1571@fed1read04>

I just went through this with a python shareware app
(http://EzPicMailer.com) and after a bit of wandering around lost, I came up
with a packaging combination that worked great for me.  I can highly
recommend using:

1) McMillan utility instead of distutils
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html

2) Inno setup for actual installer  http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php

After setting up a few .bat files, I can now release in a matter of a minute
or so.  Oh, and I didn't have to set up any __init__.py files or anything
like that.

"Christian Seberino" <seberino at spawar.navy.mil> wrote in message
news:bf23f78f.0309301511.376225b0 at posting.google.com...
> I really want to learn distutils to professionally package some open
> source software.
>
> I had some distutils questions after reading python.org distutil docs
> on packaging code
> if you don't mind.  I would really appreciate some help.....
>
>
> 0. I'm confused about use of the word "package" in setup.py.
>     packages = ["<package1>", "<package2>", ...]
>     Does package here just mean "a new directory of source code to
> consider"???
>
> 1. What exactly goes into the __init__.py files? I know what to put in
> setup.py
>     and I know __init__.py is used for packages but I don't know what
> to put IN this file.
>
> 2. About the data_files option for setup.py....
>
>       data_files = [ "<installation directory>", [ "<file1>",
> "<file2>", ...] ]
>
>    Is there a way to AVOID having to type EVERY single data file?? Can
> I specify
>    just the directory or use wild cards??
>
> 3.  python setup.py sdist   will make a package of SOURCE code and
>     using "bdist" will put BINARIES in package.  What does this
> mean???
>     Will bdist packages unpack to pyc (bytecode) files and sdist will
> unpack
>     py (noncompiled) files????  What if I wanted py and pyc files
> installed
>     from the package?? (i.e. source and compiled versions)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chris





From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Thu Sep 18 05:11:40 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:11:40 +0400
Subject: Help with regular expression
In-Reply-To: <bka1sr$kjk$1@newshost.mot.com>
References: <bka1sr$kjk$1@newshost.mot.com>
Message-ID: <bkbssb$102f$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Stephen Boulet wrote:

> I'm trying to write an RE to match a string that might or might not be 
> ther and everything past it up to another string that might or might not 
> be there and everything past it to a third string that might or might 
> not be there and everything past it.
> 
> Say my strings are "STRING1", "STRING2", and "String3".
> 
> Would the re be:
> 
>    r'((STRING1.*)(STRING2.*)(STRING3.*))'
> 
> The goal is to separate the groups by newlines, but I only want the 
> first group to match up to the second group and the second to match up 
> to the third.
> 
> Normally I would achieve this by typing:
> 
>    pat = re.compile(r'((STRING1.*)(STRING2.*)(STRING3.*))')
>    m = pat.findall(s)
>    s = '\n\n'.join(m[0])
> 
> but the first group would seem to match everything.
> 
> How can I get it to do what I want?
> 
> -- Stephen
> 

Try non-greedy wildcards: r'((STRING1.*?)(STRING2.*?)(STRING3.*?))'
				       -           -           -

should do the trick.

hth,
anton.




From matthew at barnes.net  Mon Sep  8 11:45:51 2003
From: matthew at barnes.net (Matthew Barnes)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 08:45:51 -0700
Subject: Detecting interactive mode reliably
Message-ID: <3a8e83d2.0309080745.1a1a6bea@posting.google.com>

Surely this has been asked before, but I've not yet found the answer
on Google Groups or the Python FAQ.

Is there a method for reliably detecting whether the interpreter is
running in interactive mode?  The best solution I've come up with so
far is to check sys.argv[0] for an empty string or '-c', but I'm not
sure whether that works for all the various Python IDEs out there.

Reason for the question is that I'd like a module I'm writing to run
some extra initialization steps when the module is imported from an
interactive interpreter.

So something like:

if some_reliable_interactive_mode_test():
    initialize_for_interactive_use()

Matthew Barnes



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Sep 16 20:25:20 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:25:20 -0700
Subject: When passing functions as args,      how to pass extra args for passed function?
References: <mailman.1063746594.3920.python-list@python.org> <XQM9b.1755$Ie5.334063@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-1F9B4E.17252016092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <XQM9b.1755$Ie5.334063 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
 "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

> Here's one way:
> 
> formatted = map(lambda f: pretty_format(f, fmt='%4.5f'), unformatted_list)
> 
> 
> And, here's another (requires itertools, available in Python 2.3 [*]):
> 
> from itertools import repeat
> formatted = map(pretty_format, unformated_list, repeat('%4.5f'))
> 
> 
> [*]
> # or you can roll your own,
> # credit: http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/itertools-functions.html
> def repeat(object, times=None):
>          if times is None:
>              while True:
>                  yield object
>          else:
>              for i in xrange(times):
>                  yield object
> 
> # may need 'from __future__ import generators' at top of file

def curry(f, **kwargs):
    return lambda *largs: f(*largs,**kwargs)

map(curry(pretty_format, fmt='%4.5f'), unformatted_list)

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Sep  7 13:14:00 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 17:14:00 GMT
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
References: <mailman.1062873250.31920.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309061534.5f8cf00f@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.09.06.23.51.35.802469@webone.com.au> <6ee58e07.0309070221.61734da4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjfp0o$rme$1@216.39.172.122>

On 7 Sep 2003 03:21:25 -0700, llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) wrote:

>Simon Burton <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.09.06.23.51.35.802469 at webone.com.au>...
>> hmmm... I think (some) static analysis may be possible. The main
>> thing to exclude is eval/exec but even then, yes you're right, some
>> programs would just have to be run to find out what they do.
>> 
>
>Whats with code like:
>
>if foo:
>   def myfunc():
>       ... do something
>else:
>   def myfunc():
>       ... calling your_func()
>
>
>A Language where the program calling hierarchie depends on runtime
>calculations is not able to provide good refactoring tools or static
>flow analysis. This is the huge difference to a language like
>Smalltalk where we live in an image.
>
>And if you say that this is a hack, then you are making a big mistake,
>look at currently used code and you will find so much uses of this
>style (or even worse styles) that it seems to be a common paradigm.

Which only begins to hint at what is possible with metaclasses ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Wed Sep 10 23:03:02 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:03:02 GMT
Subject: metaclasses for type comparison
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.11.01.50.58.897682@webone.com.au>
References: <pan.2003.09.11.01.50.58.897682@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <GBR7b.415613$uu5.75083@sccrnsc04>

Simon Burton wrote:
> In today's experiment, I was wondering if I could make the comparison
> operators (<,<=,>=,>) work on classes (types) according to inheritance.
> 
> The idea is, for example, classes lower in the class hierarchy would be
> less than (more specialized) than classes they inherit from.
> 
> class A(object):
>   pass
> 
> class B(A):
>   pass
> 
> B < A # should be True

Is this an exercise to help you learn about metaclasses, or do you 
actually want to be able to check whether B is a subclass of A.  If the 
latter, then try issubclass(B, A).  Otherwise, ignore this comment

David




From alienoid at is.lg.ua  Thu Sep  4 07:20:06 2003
From: alienoid at is.lg.ua (Ruslan Spivak)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:20:06 +0300
Subject: pyOpenSSL + windows
Message-ID: <3F571FE6.8070309@is.lg.ua>

Hello, pythonistas!

Does anybody have pyOpenSSL windows binaries for python2.2?
Thanks a lot in advance

Best regards,
Ruslan





From timr at probo.com  Fri Sep 19 02:33:04 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:33:04 -0700
Subject: smtplib question
References: <2003091716471063831625@k2.sage.att.com>
Message-ID: <se8lmv4ikkv4hamifm2ili9babnvca37ph@4ax.com>

Garry Hodgson <garry at sage.att.com> wrote:
>
>how do i use smtplib to send mail to someone with "cc" to someone else?
>if i just include the "to" addressees in the call to smtplib.sendmail(), and
>put the others in the "Cc" header fields, only the "To" recipients get the mail,
>thought the mail headers look right.

The e-mail headers (To:, Cc:, Subject:, etc.) are not part of SMTP.  They
are ignored by sendmail and play no part at all in the e-mail delivery.
The only thing sendmail cares about is the list of addresses in the SMTP
protocol, which comes from the first parameter to smtplib.sendmail.

So, the short answer is that the address list (first parameter to
smtplib.sendmail) must include EVERYONE that should receive the message --
To, Cc, or Bcc -- in one big list.  You can put whatever you want in the
headers in the body of the message; it won't matter.  For large lists, it
is common for the header to say, for example:

    To:    recipient list suppressed

Perfectly legal.

>please respond off-list.  i had to give up following comp.lang.python for lack
>of time.

But yet, you expect us to take OUR time to answer your questions for free?
That doesn't seem right.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From ben at transversal.com  Tue Sep  9 06:59:14 2003
From: ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 03:59:14 -0700
Subject: Slight metaclass confusion
Message-ID: <fd3e3161.0309090259.eaa3623@posting.google.com>

I am slightly confused about the way metaclasses work, having read
"Metaclass Programming In Python, Parts 1 and 2"

I get the fact that the instance of a metaclass is a class, but in
this case I fail to see why the following does'nt work:

>>> class Meta(type):
...     def __str__(cls):
...             print "I am " + repr(cls)
... 
>>> 
>>> Class = Meta("Fish", (), {})
>>> Class.__str__()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: descriptor '__str__' of 'object' object needs an argument

Whereas this does:

>>> class Simple(object):
...     def __str__(self):
...             return "I am " + repr(self)
... 
>>> obj = Simple()
>>> obj.__str__()
I am <__main__.Simple object at 0x402f676c>

The tutorial does mention this (slightly), but doesn't make it clear
why this is happening. I am probably missing something obvious though!

Thanks for the help,

Ben
---



From brucedickey at micron.com  Mon Sep 29 13:21:11 2003
From: brucedickey at micron.com (Bruce Dickey)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:21:11 -0600
Subject: [joke] Any tool to translate PHP to Python?
References: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com> <3f75f5b8$0$20650$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <vncdncfj0csgdf@corp.supernews.com> <3f775d15$0$20178$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <bl9pm7$893$1@admin-svc.micron.com>

"Bruno Desthuilliers" <bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> wrote in message
news:3f775d15$0$20178$626a54ce at news.free.fr...
> Bruce Dickey wrote:
> > Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> >
> >> Bruce Dickey wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I have some PHP scripts I'm moving from my web server to the local
> >>> PC. They just do file manipulation.
> >>>
> >>> Anybody know of a tool for translating PHP to Python?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Er... What about a programmer ?-)
> >>
> >> (sorry, could not resist)
> >> Bruno
> >>
> >
> > Heh heh. Point taken. I actually *was* assuming I would be the tool --
> > I've been around Python long enough to have seen most of the resources
> > for desktop apps.
> >
> > But Python web scripting I have not gotten into or read much about. It
> > appears to me that Python is increasing in popularity, not only on the
> > desktop, but also on the web server.
> >
> > It seems to me that for folks migrating from PHP to Python, a translator
> > would be a handy tool. Especially if they have a large site to convert.
>
> May be, but to which of the numerous Python-based dynamic web page
> generation / web framework / web application server would you convert
> your php source ?
>
> Bruno
>

I don't know... maybe never will. In my case, I only have a few small
scripts and will translate by hand.

Bruce





From paul at boddie.net  Thu Sep  4 10:48:45 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 07:48:45 -0700
Subject: Using python RPM on SuSE 8.1 : No libpython.a or libpython.so present. Why?
References: <ad2ca00b.0309040237.2205af33@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0309040648.10abd74@posting.google.com>

turner at mmedia.is (Douglass Turner) wrote in message news:<ad2ca00b.0309040237.2205af33 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to install a statistics package called RSPython that
> requires a python shared library to be present on my SuSE 8.1 linux
> box. My python is provide as an RPM package and as far as I can tell
> there is no libpython.a or libpython.so. What gives?

What does "locate libpython" give you? I'd expect those libraries to
be under /usr/lib on most modern (GNU/)Linux distributions, but
possibly not with exactly those names. The presence of a shared
library is a comparatively recent luxury, and I wouldn't expect that
to be there for releases of Python earlier than 2.3.

> How do I get these libraries on my machine?

The chances are that they do exist, but with more specific names, as
the following path illustrates:

/usr/lib/python2.2/config/libpython2.2.a

Paul



From list-python at ccraig.org  Wed Sep 17 10:08:05 2003
From: list-python at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 10:08:05 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
References: <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net> <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org> <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net> <20030916211148.GD29089@unpythonic.net> <3F67D36B.80709@sci.fi>
Message-ID: <t1w3ceva4oq.fsf@kermit.wreck.org>

Harri Pesonen <fuerte at sci.fi> writes:

> But wouldn't it be better if Python had real multitasking? Comments
> like the above mean that you accept Python as it is, fine. But
> usually people want to make things better when they see that
> something can be improved. If my roof is leaking, I have two
> choices: fix it or accept it. If I am able to fix it, then I'll
> probably do it.

This is awfully dramatic.  Python does have real multitasking, take a
look at os.fork().  

Your proposal would require a great deal of work [1] to achieve a very
limited result: Situations where people wanted to share Python objects
between multiple, independent interpreters in a single process.  I
don't think that happens very often.  Note that the average threaded
Python user is probably using a single interpreter and so will see no
noticeable speedup from this.

If you really want to do this, I'd rather see some sort of shared
memory manager that lets you share Python objects between independent
processes.  That gives nearly all the benefits without having to break
a bunch of C modules.

1) You say it's easy, but I'll believe it when I see a patch.

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <list-python at ccraig.org>
I develop for Linux for a living, I used to develop for DOS.  Going from
DOS to Linux is like trading a glider for an F117. - Lawrence Foard






From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 15:27:41 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:27:41 +0100
Subject: What is marketing?
In-Reply-To: <VMMX/kKkXEMK092yn@gnosis.cx>         
Message-ID: <003301c3763f$4b5896a0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

David Mertz
>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote previously:
>|Many techies think of "marketing" as a dirty word because it's so
often
>|misused as an inappropriate synonym for "selling".
>
>  marketing
>  1. The act or process of buying and selling in a market.
>  2. The commercial functions involved in transferring goods from
>     producer to consumer.
>  --------------------
>  The American Heritage (r) Concise Dictionary of the English Language,
>  Third Edition.   Copyright (c) 1992 Houghton Mifflin Company.
>
>In other words, 'marketing' is a synonym for 'selling' (commercially).
>
>The neutral word that Alex is looking for is 'promotion', which has a
>subtle but important difference from the dirty word.

This is totally misconstrued pedantry 

Sell - 7 a Advertise or publish the merits of.
         b give (a person) information on the value of something.
           inspire with a desire to buy or acquire or agree to
something.

Tim






From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Mon Sep  1 15:37:21 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:37:21 -0500
Subject: Structured writing to console, such as a table
Message-ID: <971323274247EB44B9A01D0A3B424C8541FC0B@FTWMLVEM02.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Ok, perhaps a question on a newbie level.

I try to create a simple 'write to a console application' where all the items in a string
do have a variable size:
items = ["a", "bbbbbbbbb", "cc"]
Well, actually, I need to print a table as simple text, nice lined up in a console.
So:


Item:       Value:     Another Value:
----------+----------+------------------
a         | 1        | 2
bbbbbbbbb | 2        | 17
cc        | 3        | 5

My hope was that somewhere in python land an existing module was waiting for me.
A module that also prints lines, headers....

Unfortunately, I can't find it. Books, Google...
Before I reinvent this wheel... please give me some tips, references, examples...


Thanks,
Vincent




From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Mon Sep  8 10:58:36 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 10:58:36 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list@python.org> <LGAX/kKkXUzX092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062995770.27529.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3oexv72eb.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) writes:

> Just email <send-me-money at gnosis.cx> for details on payment/shipping.
> The first order may take an extra week for setup time (it might take a
> couple days for me to talk to my local copy-shop about printing the box
> and so on).  [only *wink*ing inasmuch as I question the market, for even
> one $299 sale, I really would create something quite nice looking]

How much of this $299 would go to the PSF? And how much would go to
the David-needs-a-yacht fund? I could probably get my boss to order 4
or 5 such boxed distributions...

No-*winking*-at-all,

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Sep  6 16:10:13 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:10:13 -0400
Subject: [2.3] object does not appear to be a reserved word
In-Reply-To: <vlkeevoosut157@news.supernews.com>
References: <v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8@4ax.com> <vlkeevoosut157@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F5A3F25.7040208@rogers.com>

John Roth wrote:

>"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message
>news:v89klvsupdoe39e6trqbbqvmhfgecnoum8 at 4ax.com...
>  
>
>>Is it potentially dangerous to use the variable 'object' in code?
>>    
>>
>
>"object" is, I believe, a built-in type in the builtins namespace.
>As such,  you can shadow it so it's inacessable. However,
>the only place were that could cause problems is if you
>use it as an identifier at the module level. I think.
>  
>
Another place: errors in (copied) code which get silently ignored 
because of the presence of the "object" type. 

For instance, if you cut-and-past a few lines of (older, particularly 
pre-2.2) code which uses the variable "object" into a new situation 
which uses "item" (or whatever), the older code will often seem to be 
functioning properly because it uses the type "object" as an instance, 
instead of raising a NameError.  Tends to result in subtle bugs, but not 
likely enough to warrant breaking all the old code that used "object" as 
an identifier by making it a keyword.

To answer the original question, yes, it's somewhat dangerous to use 
"object" as an identifier in code.  It's approximately equally dangerous 
to use "str", "list", or "tuple" as an identifier.  It's just that the 
temptation to use "object" is greater when you're doing a lot of 
polymorphic programming, and you'll find older code (pre 2.2) using it 
without any concern whatsoever (because there was no object type back 
then to cause a problem). 

Each new built-in causes the same problem, it's just that "object" is so 
fundamental an idea (both as a built-in and an identifer) that it's 
probably the most likely source of such low-level conflicts going 
forward.  (e.g. enumerate, or zip are used in code once in a while, but 
compared to "object" are fairly uncommon choices for an identifier).

Enjoy,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Sep 25 14:38:17 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:38:17 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tCGcb.3061$yU5.1020@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"sebastien" <s.keim at laposte.net> wrote in message
> So, I'd expect to have a riter() function which would call the
> __riter__ special method.
. . .
> And I still think you don't need it often enough to put it in the
> builtin namespace, so the function should go in the itertools module.

If you make a magic method, then the function calling it
needs to be a builtin.  They go hand in hand.


Raymond





From martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de  Tue Sep  9 06:53:20 2003
From: martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de (Martin Schneider)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 12:53:20 +0200
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
References: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>

One step ahead: My test program sorted a two-dimensional array containing
pairs of a string and a long integer, and the strcpy routine seems pretty
slow.

After reducing the problem to numerical sort only, I could improve the
relation to 1:50.

Is this a normal ratio?

Martin

> The Python Bubblesort runs 103 seconds, the C extension Bubblesort runs 28
> seconds, this is about 1:4, which is far worse than I expected (assumed
> about 100:1 or alike).






From owner-mutt-announce at mutt.org  Wed Sep  3 03:01:08 2003
From: owner-mutt-announce at mutt.org (owner-mutt-announce at mutt.org)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 07:01:08 -0000
Subject: mutt-announce@mutt.org: Non-member submission from <python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030903070108.28220.qmail@agent57.gbnet.net>


Your submission to the list has been forwarded to the list
owner <owner-mutt-announce at mutt.org> for approval because you do not seem to be on 
that list.

If you want to join the list, send email to <Majordomo at mutt.org>, with
"subscribe mutt-announce" in the message text (not the subject).





From richie at entrian.com  Fri Sep 12 08:36:36 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:36:36 +0100
Subject: asyncore question
In-Reply-To: <Xns93F48D6F052CAstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.75>
References: <Xns93F48D6F052CAstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.75>
Message-ID: <60f3mv8t6ebgsgskg50inqt6rihqtu5tlv@4ax.com>

[St?phane]
> what happens if dispatcher is created with non global map
> but with no socket, like:
> 
>     d=dispatcher(self,sock=None,map=some_map)
> 
> then create_socket called:
>     
>     d.create_socket()
> 
> This dispatcher will be added to the global map.
> But probably user will call asyncore.loop(map=some_map),
> as d was buillt with this map.
> 
> Is there not something wrong here, or am I just missing something ?

I believe it's an oversight in asyncore.  Either create_socket should take
a map parameter, or __init__ should store the initial map and
create_socket should use it.  One workaround is to create the socket
yourself and call set_socket(sock, some_map).

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Sep 10 17:42:31 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:42:31 -0400
Subject: Opposite of yield?
In-Reply-To: <3F5F95B9.A8CB5786@easystreet.com>
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com> <3F5F8742.C1C66903@engcorp.com> <3F5F95B9.A8CB5786@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F9AC7.3060609@rogers.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:

>Peter Hansen wrote:
>  
>
>>Queue.Queue.get() ...
>>
>>    
>>
>
>That looks good.  But that needs a thread to block, right? 
>A generator manages to run without being a thread (at least
>overtly).  If we have the suck() statement, we also need 
>something that's the opposite of a generator (a Sucker?)
>and something that's the opposite of an iterator (a Suckee?). 
>I'm starting to get an idea why this is completely not all
>there. 
>  
>
You're probably looking for "watcher" or "dispatcher" patterns (using 
"pattern" loosely), i.e. something which is registered to respond to a 
particular type of "event" and process the results only when the event 
occurs.  See Patrick 's pydispatcher project for a fairly good framework 
on which to build such things.

http://pydispatcher.sourceforge.net/

In a more general sense, this is asynchronous programming, so at the 
high-end you could check out Twisted Matrix, which is a network-oriented 
asynchronous event system (pydispatcher is primarily an in-process system).

>The main question this raises is "How lightweight are threads?"
>Can I program with dozens or hundreds of python threads in a
>program (for example under Windows) and not notice that this is
>an inefficient or inept coding style?
>  
>
Large numbers of threads tend to cause problems eventually unless you're 
using micro-threads under Stackless Python.  Since AFAIK, micro-threads 
haven't been re-implemented in Stackless 3.0, massively-threading 
approaches aren't likely to be a great approach just yet.  As an aside, 
micro-threading, particularly when combined with continuations, allows 
for programming some of the most beautiful ways to deal with 
asynchronous events I've ever seen.

That said, a few dozen, or even hundred threads may run quite nicely 
under Windows.  Tim could likely give a better estimate, but I seem to 
recall him saying (way back when Stackless was 1.0) that Win95 could 
handle a far higher thread-load than Linux (possibly a few thousand 
threads?)  I really wouldn't try running a few thousand threads on most 
boxes, however, the OSes just aren't designed to handle it well.

HTH,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From syver at inout.no  Mon Sep 15 08:13:38 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 14:13:38 +0200
Subject: caching the sql queries
References: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com> <mailman.1063625720.2467.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uhe3eb66l.fsf@inout.no>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> In my opinion, this sort of caching should really be done in the
> application layer, not in the database access layer.

I didn't know that PHP programmers used layers at all :-) 

On a more serious note, Why do you think caching should be
implemented in the application layer (is this the same as the
domain/business layer) rather than the database access layer?





From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Sun Sep  7 07:42:19 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:42:19 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <vlm5h1e76u5m00@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c37535$1e75a9d0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Terry Ready said:
> YUCK< YUCK< YUCK.
> <snip>
> The pollenation site is one of the worst I have seen.  The mockup page
> has teeny type that IE will not enlarge.
> <snip>
> I care that the site remain physically readable and that it remain a
> vehicle for information rather than childish egos.
> <snip>
> Using IE6, I need a magnifying glass
> to read this page.  This is done in the arrogant style of 'we know
> better than you what type size you should have'.  Also known as the
> 'control the user experience' school.  Awful.  For me, one of the
> worse pages I have ever seen.  Anti-Pythonic.
>
> > interior page:
> Only slightly better.  The low contrast gray-on-gray comments page is
> also barely readable.  (Others reported the same.)  For my
> less-than-perfect 50+ year-old eyes, it is physically the WORST
> comments page I have ever seen.  It is a case study in
> anti-accessibility design.  The person responsible should not touch
> our site.

Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it's a
proposal and a work in progress. As constructive comments go the only
feedback I have gathered is that the fonts are too small and the
contrast is
a little low. I've adjusted contrast on key elements and also increased
the
font size. These pages are here :

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior-2.html

also bearing in mind that the html page will be accessible and hence
allow
text resizing here is a sample of +1 text size.

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2larger.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior-2larger.html

Also, Terry, the design was an 'image', a 'mockup', a 'png' to be
specific,
it did not dictate font size. As far as accessibility is concerned, the
only
problem was the contrast and the font size both of which I've changed as
I
agree they were too low and too small respectively.

Although I agree that the font size should be bigger, the current site
is
not an exemplar of accessibility. The following example taken from the
interior page I have shown.The first is in comparison with my original
design, the second show a comparison with the amendments showing normal
and
+1 font sizing. (the text on my samples may benefit from increasing the
line
height using css)

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-text-comparison-new.gif
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-text-comparison.gif

As a side note, I haven't been to any school of 'control the user
experience'. Furthermore I think making comments such as accusing me of
having a 'childish ego' and being 'arrogant' are IMO extremely
disrespectful
and I would appreciate an apology. I am quite hurt and dissapointed to
see
such coments on what I had considered a respectable forum for discussion
although I'm sure they are not representative.

Tim Parkin

Terry:
> I otherwise do not have too much concern about particulars and
therefore
> not much to contribute.







From Jon_Aquino at shaw.ca  Sun Sep  7 02:03:56 2003
From: Jon_Aquino at shaw.ca (Jonathan Aquino)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 23:03:56 -0700
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fc08a59c.0309062203.56904149@posting.google.com>

(Paul Foley replied to my e-mail directly. Below are his remarks,
which I was interested to read. At the end is my reply.)


 >> 1) I abhor redundancy. My first impression on seeing self as the
first
 >> parameter of all method declarations is that it seems redundant --
it
 >> probably isn't technically, but it looks redundant: (self, (self,
 >> (self, (self, ...

 PF> Of course it's not redundant -- no more than the "x" is redundant
in

 PF>   def ln(x):
 PF>       ...

 PF>   def sin(x):
 PF>       ...

 PF>   def cos(x):
 PF>       ...

 PF>   def tan(x):
 PF>       ...

 PF>   def cosh(x):
 PF>       ...

 PF>   def sinh(x):
 PF>       ...

 PF> etc., etc.  Gee, look: (x, (x, (x, (x, (x, ...

 >> 2) The number of parameters in the method call is one less than
the
 >> number of parameters in the method declaration.

 PF> No it isn't.  The first argument is just in a strange place:

 PF>     x.foo(y,z)
 PF>     ^     ^ ^
 PF>     1     2 3

 PF> x.foo is really just weird syntax for curry(foo, x); i.e.,

 PF>    q = x.foo

 PF> is essentially

 PF>    q = lambda *a: foo(x, *a)

 PF> (but in a different namespace), so

 PF>    x.foo(y,z)   is   q(y,z)   is   (lambda *a: foo(x, *a))(y,z)

 PF> and there are exactly as many args in the call as in the
definition
 PF> (as, of course, there must be!)


 PF> Of course, it would be infinitely better to write foo(x,y,z),
opening
 PF> the way to _real_ OO (with multiple dispatch), but x.foo(y,z) is
what
 PF> Python supports...


I was interested to read your response. 
I think you and I are looking through different lenses. Perhaps
influenced by my Java/Smalltalk background, I'm simply uncomfortable
when I see (1) the first parameter on all method declarations being
the object (didn't have to do this before) and (2) the number of
things
between the parentheses being different for the method declaration and
the method call.

On the other hand, when I read your response it's clear to me that (1)
you are comfortable looking through the lens of functional
programming, so that passing the object in as the first parameter
makes perfect sense to you, and (2) the mismatch in the number of
things
between the parentheses is not a big deal to you (though "strange",
you admit) because as an experienced Python programmer you know what's
going on under the covers.

My opinions are the frank opinions of a Java/Smalltalk programmer
learning Python. And I'm not the only newbie who thinks this seems
strange: the original newbie poster also opined that this is "odd".

Out of the mouths of babes ...



From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 16 21:05:24 2003
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 18:05:24 -0700
Subject: App development for Sharp Zaurus PDA using QTopia?
References: <3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <8e6e8e5d.0309161705.5d6aac96@posting.google.com>

The Python ipk file python_2.3-1.1_arm.ipk can be downloaded from
Riverbank software at
http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/zaurus/download.php .

I have used a lot of command line Python progams on my Zaurus and they
are quite fast and snappy. As for PyQt apps, there has been some
discussion of them on the Zaurus Zone web discussion board at
http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/ and if you do  a search on PyQt there
you will see considerable information. The "gist" of the discussion
seems to be that PyQt works fine, and that for many purposes is
acceptably fast, but when using complex custom widgets (user
programmed as opposed to standard QT widgets), the performance can get
noticeably slower.

It has also been reported that AnyGui works fine on the Zaurus,
finding and using the Qt toolkit.

Ron Stephens



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 27 14:31:30 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:31:30 -0700
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <qwkk08g01cnk.1cg40v1qdfe2l.dlg@40tude.net> <mailman.1064580340.26537.python-list@python.org> <vijanv0lloncphml3mcjohgjukkv1eea4p@4ax.com> <bl4gtc$lmn$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bl4kos$8181d$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

>>The fun you can have on windows, I've  
>>managed to create files that cannot be removed 
>
>I've had that one simply by saving a web page in IE. Seriously
>annoying.
>
| Do you mean windows exploder will not even delete it with right-click, delete?
| Or doesn't it show up at all? (how do you know it exists? dos dir?)

Under Win98 they show up 
AND can NOT be deleted from the Right-Click context menu ...

They can be deleted with no problem under DOS ....

The problem in Win98 for me came from saving web pages
with extra  LONG  file names ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 30 15:49:00 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:49:00 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
References: <mailman.1064941127.23486.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blcmqd$650$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Robert Brewer wrote:

> def get_func(fullFuncName):
>     """Dynamically load a module and retrieve reference to the function
> (NOT an instance)."""
>     
>     # Parse out the path, module, and function
>     lastDot = fullFuncName.rfind(".")
>     funcName = fullFuncName[lastDot + 1:]
>     modPath = fullFuncName[:lastDot]
>     
>     aMod = __import__(modPath, globals(), locals(), [''])
>     aFunc = getattr(aMod, funcName)
>     
>     # Assert that the function is a *callable* attribute.
>     if not callable(aFunc): raise AssertionError("%s is not callable." %
> fullFuncName)
>     
>     # Return a reference to the function itself, not the results of the
> function.
>     return aFunc
> 
>> Maybe you should raise a TypeError rather than an ImportError to
> indicate
>> that what is expected to be a function is not callable.
> 
> How about an AssertionError, since it's only included for programmers,
> not users?

Well, *all* Exceptions are only for the programmer, as in an ideal world a
user would never see a traceback. The Exception subclass is intended to
give the programmer the possibility to handle different problems in
different places. 
A typical use case for get_func() would be in a plug-in infrastructure and
thus must be dealt with in the production environment.
As an AssertionError is normally raised by the assert statement which will
be removed when the code is compiled with the -O optimize flag, your usage
is definitely non-standard.

Peter



From tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com  Mon Sep  8 10:07:15 2003
From: tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com (Tim Parkin)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:07:15 +0100
Subject: More Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <htpolv8f9v675vd49pmug3uhddfva8n87f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c37612$881089e0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>

Hi,

I'm replying off list as, to be honest, I've had enough. 

Thanks for your message though. I've made a few changes to the pages and
you can see them at

http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main.htmlhttp://pollenation.
net/assets/public/python-main.html


----------------------------------------------
Tim Parkin
Managing Director
Pollenation Internet Ltd
www.pollenation.net
m : 07980 59 47 68
t : 01132 25 25 00

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of Richie Hindle
Sent: 08 September 2003 14:54
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: More Comments on Python Redesign



[Tim]
> [...] I was merely reacting to some unfounded criticisms of the
> design I'd put forward. If I seem to have been a little over the top
> then I apologise profusely but as you can imagine the reaction to 8
> weeks of hard work that had been put in by quite a few people.
> Comments like the one you have made just make me realise how much
> time we've all wasted.

[Gerhard]
> Thanks for your work on this. I for one *do* like your design
prototype. 
> And I'm unpleasantly surprised by the tone of the criticism as well.

Hear, hear.  Regardless of whether one thinks the new design is an
improvement (or even a worthwhile project to undertake), it should be
clear that an awful lot of work has gone into it.  People should take
that
into account when choosing how to express their opinions.

For the record, I believe the Python website looks dated and could use
some improvement.  I have a few small problems with the proposed
redesign,
but I do think that given the simple question "which is better", the new
one (with its typography issues resolved) is better.  Here are some
(hopefully constructive and dispassionate 8-) comments:

 o There is no "What is Python".  A homepage should explain what the
   company/organisation/product/project *is*, either there on the
homepage
   or one unambiguous link away.

 o *All* of the non-navigation content is dedicated to case studies,
"News
   and announcements" and "Features and articles".  This will need to be
   constantly updated, or you'll find that the same content sits there
   forever.  Be careful - don't commit yourself to updating a
   dynamic-looking site for ever more, when you could publish a more
   static-looking site that still fulfills all the requirements.  (I
speak
   from experience here.)

 o It could be a fluke, but it looks like the page has been designed to
   fit onto an 800x600 screen.  These days, people know about
scrollbars.
   (That is not a flippant remark - only a small number of years ago it
   wasn't true.)  Content should not be sacrificed for the sake of
   avoiding scrollbars (but the most important information should go
near
   the top).  Flexibility should not be sacrificed for visual appeal.

 o The design as it stands makes it difficult to change.  What if
everyone
   decides that there should be a link to the FAQ on the homepage -
where
   would you put it?  The design is *so* tight and well-balanced that
   making edits will degrade its appearance.  Not sure how to address
that
   one (but IMHO it's a consequence of not having enough space dedicated
   to static content, and striving for a perfect 4x3 800x600 rectangle).

 o I like the logo, and I like the visual look and feel.  Well done!
But
   I agree with others that the two-tone Py/thon is at best unnecessary
   and at worst confusing.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list







From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 30 03:44:48 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:44:48 +0200
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <mailman.1064880939.15093.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blbccg$kfr$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Tony Meyer wrote:

> Rob> I don't like that solution for this particular project because, as
> Rob> you say yourself, if it says yes to the second question, it only
> Rob> *may* be a number.  I want to know for sure.
> 
> This also works, although it may not be best for your situation (only does
> int and float for brevity):
> 
> """
> def isInt(s):
>     try:
>         i = int(s)
>     except ValueError:
>         i = None
>     return i
> def isFloat(s):
>     try:
>         i = float(s)
>     except ValueError:
>         i = None
>     return i
> def isNumber(s):
>     return isInt(s) or isFloat(s)
> """
> 
> One advantage is that it returns the number (as an int (preferable) or
> float) rather than just True/False (None is returned if it is not able to
> be
> turned into a number).  You're probably going to want to turn it into a
> number at some point anyway, right?, so why not do it in one step.

Made-up use-case:

s = "123"
value = isNumber(s)
if value is not None:
    value *= 2
else:
    raise ValueError, "%s is not a number" % s

To me this looks like a deliberate attempt to obfuscate. Nobody would guess
that you have to test the result of isNumber() against None and cannot
reliably treat it as a boolean value. You should at least change the
function name to something like stringToNumber().

The program flow is redundant: 
- convert to number 
- "convert" exception into special return value
- check for special return value
- throw exception

I can think of very few situations where None could actually be *used*
instead of a numerical value.

> Note that "0" will come back as 0.0, though, because it evaluates as
> False. It would be easy enough to special case that, if necessary.

This is a bug that demonstrates that your isInt()/isFloat() implementation
is not even well suited to implement isNumber().

Peter



From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Sep  7 04:33:45 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 08:33:45 GMT
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it> <bjcbha$vmp$02$1@news.t-online.com> <8Um6b.34442$R32.1077180@news2.tin.it> <v6Cdne4p1M5Zl8eiXTWJgA@comcast.com> <kKt6b.24041$hE5.882369@news1.tin.it> <_ru6b.4463$I_2.688035@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <J3C6b.37343$R32.1181591@news2.tin.it>

Sean Ross wrote:
   ...
>> >>    attribute salary is Currency
>> >>        "Salario mensile"
>> >>        restriction quantity(1)
>> >>
>> >>        on create code Python
>> >>            if value[0] < minimumSalary:
>> >>                value = [ minimumSalary ]
>> >>            return value
>> >>        %%
>> >
>> > My reflexive reaction was 'ugh'.  My considered reaction is 'bravo'.
>>
>> Glad you reconsidered;-).  I'm not enthusiastic about that %%, but we
   ...
> Could "end code" replace "%%" as 'the end of embedded Python code'
> delimiter in that language?

Sure, with some effort.  A single token would be a drop-in replacement,
two tokens would be a bit of work.


Alex





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Sep 19 20:11:48 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:11:48 -0400
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
References: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9@engcorp.com>

Pete Jereb wrote:
> 
> Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> 
> >>> s = 'chg bonn_fee'
> >>> print s
> chg bonn_fee
> >>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
> bonn_fee
> 
> >>> s = 'chg conn_fee'
> >>> print s
> chg conn_fee
> >>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
> onn_fee
> 
> Does this make any sense at all?  where did the lead c in conn_fee go?

Based on the behaviour you describe, I would assume lstrip() 
removes, starting at the beginning of the string, all characters
which are *anywhere* in the argument string you give it, until
it encounters a character not in that string, at which point it
stops.

-Peter



From nicola-mingotti at libero.it  Mon Sep 15 21:39:40 2003
From: nicola-mingotti at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:39:40 +0200
Subject: distributing a standalone python app. under Linux
References: <bk4bul$o92at$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bk5r76$un7$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

Alexander Eisenhuth <stacom at stacom-software.de> writes:

> Hallo alltogether,
> 
> under windows, the py2exe is first choice, but has anybody done it
> under Linux ? My first try with Installer
> 

most linux these days already have a python interpreter
installed so i think the simplest (simplistic) method
would be send the *.py or *.pyc file/s . 
( i follow this way when i give little apps to my friends )

i you want to ensure that the host machine has
python ( or the right relase of it ) you can write
a bash script that 
1) install python
2) install your program [this part can be done in python itself]


bye




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Sep 16 10:51:27 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:51:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Print always puts newline (or adds a space)
References: <3d9e1e6e689e3a662f59990c4b401713@news.teranews.com> <3F64DEF7.F98CFAB8@alcyone.com> <bk77de$pt7i4$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93F8A0E28DF3Aduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Tobias Pfeiffer <BoteDesSchattens at web.de> wrote in
news:bk77de$pt7i4$1 at ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de: 

>> Yep, call sys.stdout.write directly.
> 
> Is it then also possible to "jump back" a few chars to, e.g., have a 
> progress... (damn, I forgot that word) however, that shows the
> percentage of progress? Like print "25%" and then jump back three
> chars and write "26%"?

Back three characters: "\b\b\b"
Back to start of line: "\r"

e.g.
>>> for i in range(10000):
...             j = pow(2,i)
...             if j%100:
...                 sys.stdout.write("\b"+"/-\\|"[i%4])
...

> And then, on my Linux machine, such things just don't happen at all.
> E.g. in a loop like...
> 
> for i in range(1000):
>          j = pow(2,i)
>          if j%100: print "#",
> 
> ...I will get nothing for a long time and then ten "#" chars at one
> time. Is there a solution for that?

Maybe sys.stdout.flush()?


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep  8 00:33:49 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 00:33:49 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
 <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list@python.org> <LGAX/kKkXUzX092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <taAX/kKkXYUC092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

|>We developers should not be treated as second class Python users because
|>someone got the idea that the page should look like what PHBs expect.

Graham Fawcett <fawcett at teksavvy.com> wrote previously:
|Developers will always be first-class Python users; it's a programming
|language, after all. Whether they should be first-class users of
|www.python.org, in my humble opinion, is questionable.
|http://dev.python.org/ would fly from my fingers just as quickly as
|http://www.python.org/ .

There's something too this claim, actually.  I find the page at
http://ibm.com/ to be a bit too busy and marketing-oriented (but not
nearly so much so as Parkin's sample); however, one click on the
"Developers" link that is fairly prominent brings you right to the much
better organized developerWorks site (where I write, after all).  In
fact, the general layout of dW is quite similar to that of the current
python.org site.

However, given that hardly anyone would bother making links to this new
marketing-oriented http://www.python.org, the benefit of Fawcett's
organization would be reduced.  Any PHB who actually searched for a term
like "Python programming" would still get http://dev.python.org/ since
that's the one everyone would go to (at least as google's first choice).

|They suggest that the owners of the site know business, that they bathe
|regularly and might even own a tie.  They offer smells of competency,
|viability and longeivity, and these are good smells to offer to
|decision-makers.

I guess so.  But as someone who makes a lot of recommendations via my
writing, I find many of those same "knows business" signs to
significantly lessen my first impressions of a product.  I want
something that works well, not something where the money goes to the
marketing department.  It's a big red flag to my mind to see a web page
that looks like a brochure.

Admittedly, I am nobody's -boss-.  And I don't directly buy much
software.  But I do exercise a certain "moral influence" on technology
choices.

And after all...  I'm not sure where the idea came from that the PSF is
a for-profit company that WANTS to market Python (as opposed to just
make the best tools possible).

|P.S. Not in reply to you, Lulu, but I *do* think they should offer a
|boxed Python set: bundle a Python 2.3 development environment on a
|CD-ROM for $299;

I'd like to announce that Gnosis Software is hereby offering a $299
boxed set of Python that includes the full development environment for
Python 2.3 (and dozens of widely used 3rd party Python packages, chosen
from widely used free software) for multiple platforms on CD; it further
includes both an attractive spiral bound edition of Guido's Tutorial,
the standard Library documentation, and a copy of Mertz' book _Text
Processing in Python_ in the box.

Just email <send-me-money at gnosis.cx> for details on payment/shipping.
The first order may take an extra week for setup time (it might take a
couple days for me to talk to my local copy-shop about printing the box
and so on).  [only *wink*ing inasmuch as I question the market, for even
one $299 sale, I really would create something quite nice looking]

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From wware at alum.mit.edu  Mon Sep  1 12:23:48 2003
From: wware at alum.mit.edu (Will Ware)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 12:23:48 -0400
Subject: Hunting a memory leak
References: <slrnbkucfq.41o.falted@inspiron.openlc.org>
Message-ID: <3F537294.970A0D61@alum.mit.edu>

Debian User wrote:
> I'm trying to discover a memory leak on a program of mine...

Several years ago, I came up with a memory leak detector that I used for
C extensions with Python 1.5.2. This was before there were gc.* methods
available, and I'm guessing they probably do roughly the same things.
Still, in the unlikely event it's helpful:
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/6006

Now that I think of it, this might be helpful after all. With this
approach, you're checking the total refcount at various points in the
loop in your C code, rather than only in the Python code. Take a look
anyway.

Good luck
Will Ware



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 19 00:13:15 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 21:13:15 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <Xns93FAC750B300Ek23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13> <3f6a2bd3$0$10998$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0309182013.3ddeb760@posting.google.com>

You have our permission to go out an buy that second monitor, 
so that this DREADFUL problem never happens again. ;^)
Someone has to run the regressions on a dual headed system
and you get our vote.

On a more serious note, you will find that you use the office printer
a whole lot less on a dual head machine.

  --Alan

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message news:<3f6a2bd3$0$10998$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk>...
> Hi
> You may or may know that BA is based on the Qt GUI Application Toolkit, so
> you problem with the duel monitor set up is something I shall take up with
> Trolltech. Unfortunately, none of use at theKompany run a duel monitor setup
> so it is something that we are not aware of. Thank you for bring up this
> problem and I will get back to you with a solution or our proposal for a
> solution



From amk at amk.ca  Tue Sep 16 10:01:01 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:01:01 -0500
Subject: from clipper move to python
References: <3812075547.20030915130057@chead.org> <6.0.0.22.0.20030915085400.041dd200@66.28.54.253> <mailman.1063681227.26072.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Sdadna4edusAivqiRTvUqQ@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:58:06 +0700, 
	ads <ads at chead.org> wrote:
> But right now I'm still not ready using linux, a lot of my client were
> using windows. Is someone know what should I use to create text
> console application like clipper using python in (stupid) windows?

Use consolelib: http://effbot.org/zone/console-index.htm .
It's not code-compatible with curses.

--amk





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Sep  4 23:13:41 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:13:41 -0500
Subject: [Python-Dev] Discordance in documentation...
In-Reply-To: <20030904200448.GA1164@hannibal>
References: <20030904200448.GA1164@hannibal>
Message-ID: <20030905031341.GB2023@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 10:04:48PM +0200, gminick wrote:
> ...or is this just me?
> 
> Let's take a look, Reference Lib, 4.2.1 Regular Expression Syntax says:
> 
>    "|"
>            A|B, where A and B can be arbitrary REs, creates a regular
>            expression that will match either A or B.
>            [...]
>            REs separated by "|" are tried from left to right, and the 
>            first one that allows the complete pattern to match is considered 
>            the accepted branch. This means that if A matches, B will never 
>            be tested, even if it would produce a longer overall match. [...]
> 
> And now a little test:
[snipped]

Here's how the "tried left to right" portion has a meaning.  Consider
the following stupid RE:
	"(.)|(a)"

>>> import re
>>> r = re.compile("(.)|(a)")
>>> m = r.search("a")
>>> m
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x81c9458>
>>> m.group(1)
'a'
>>> m.group(2)
>>> # None

Nothing you can do will ever make the second group match.  But if you
write this:
	"(a)|(.)"
then the string "a" will match on the left-hand side (this is
guaranteed) but the string "b" will match the second group.

If this thread is to be continued, it should be on python-list at python.org

Jeff




From grisha at modpython.org  Tue Sep 30 14:24:11 2003
From: grisha at modpython.org (Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:24:11 -0400
Subject: What's the best MP3 (ID3) access library to use?
In-Reply-To: <182bcf76.0309290349.452a6643@posting.google.com>
References: <182bcf76.0309290349.452a6643@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030930142258.I30767@onyx.ispol.com>

The most comprehensive one I know of is this, however, I think it's
readonly:

http://www.omniscia.org/~vivake/python/MP3Info.py

Grisha

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Paul Moore wrote:

>
>
> I'm looking for a Python library to access ID3 information in MP3
> files.



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep 29 17:00:04 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:00:04 -0500
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <5B71DD32-F2BB-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
References: <20030929142027.GA6750@nl.linux.org>
        <5B71DD32-F2BB-11D7-9145-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <16248.40276.812650.276578@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Why do you want to do so?

    Rob> I am writing an interpreter, and my parser has to decide if an
    Rob> expression is a number or not.

Define a regular expression which matches your notion of what numbers look
like in your interpreter while your tokens are still strings.

Skip




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com  Wed Sep 24 12:05:04 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:05:04 +0200
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <mailman.1064410054.15422.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bksetg$vj5$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> ataraxia2500 wrote:
> 
>> I wanna do a script that launch a programm xyz and relaunch xyz if it
>> crashes. what kind of module do I need for such a task?
> 
> 
> Something like this:
> 
> import os
> while 1:
>     os.system("j:/UT2003/System/UT2003.exe")
> 
> os.system executes a program and waits, until the program is terminated. 
> But there's no way to know wether the program was terminated 
> deliberately or wether it crashed.

There is a way. Quoting the documentation for the os module for os.system:

The return value is the exit status of the process encoded in the format 
specified for wait(), except on Windows 95 and 98, where it is always 0.

And for os.wait:

exit status indication: a 16-bit number, whose low byte is the signal number 
that killed the process, and whose high byte is the exit status (if the signal 
number is zero); the high bit of the low byte is set if a core file was produced.

According to my experience, it is also better to test for None in the return 
value, since it seems to happen when everything is OK. So, doing:

while 1:
   exitStatus = os.system("command...")
   if exitStatus is None: break
   if exitStatus & 0xFF == 0: break

should do the trick.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Sep 24 09:29:28 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:29:28 -0500
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
In-Reply-To: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030924132928.GI32482@unpythonic.net>

os.waitpid() can tell whether a child has exited, and return its status
if so.  It can either enter a blocking wait, or it can return
immediately.

>>> pid = os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, "/bin/sleep", ["sleep", "30"])

With WNOHANG, it returns immediately.  The returned pid is 0 to show
that the process has not exited yet.
>>> os.waitpid(pid, os.WNOHANG)
(0, 0)

Wait for the process to return.  The second number is related to the
exit status and should be managed with os.WEXITSTATUS() etc.
>>> os.waitpid(pid, 0)
(29202, 0)

Waiting again produces a traceback (no danger from another process
created with the same pid)
>>> os.waitpid(pid, 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OSError: [Errno 10] No child processes

If you want to use an argument list instead of an argument string, but
always want to wait for the program to complete, use os.spawn* with
P_WAIT.

Jeff




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Sep 22 09:24:07 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (Holger Krekel)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:24:07 +0200
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
In-Reply-To: <7h3d6dt9e8i.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>; from mwh@python.net on Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 12:57:48PM +0000
References: <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com> <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com> <mailman.1063990230.32233.python-list@python.org> <7h3d6dt9e8i.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20030922152407.B24546@prim.han.de>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> Holger Krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
> 
> > Although probably 2/3 of the implementation of Python deal with the
> > type/object implementations, from a using-the-language point of view
> > the syntax probably contributes more obviously to the observed
> > "simplicity" of Python.
> 
> OK, I disagree with you, too :-)

Nah, that's almost impossible because I have carefully interspersed 
the above sentence with "probably" and "more obviously" :-)

> > But the term "meta object protocol" seems to point much more into
> > the direction of types/objects as Michael suggests and here Python
> > has a lot to offer. Is there some free material on MOP somewhere?
> 
>     http://www.elwoodcorp.com/alu/mop/contents.html

Uuh, it's all LISP based, i see.  Maybe i still give it a try. Anyone
willing to give a pythonic crash-course in LISP in - say - 
10 x 5-line paragraphs?  :-)

> looks like being a version of AMOP online, you know that book I
> brought with me to one of the pypy sprints :-) (actually, it may have
> been the Gothenbourg sprint).  I can bring it to the next sprint I
> come to, if you like.

sounds good and like more fun than funding papers.

cheers,

    holger




From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Wed Sep 10 15:46:20 2003
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:46:20 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <vlsd93p4kp004b@news.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <vlsd93p4kp004b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030910194620.GD2136@darkstar.localdomain.fake>

On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 04:16:45PM -0400, John Roth wrote:
> "Marco Herrn" <herrn at gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list at python.org...
> 
> > Currently it is planned that all these classes reside in a specific
> > subdirectory. Is it possible to say 'import * from subdirectory' ?
> 
> No. It is possible to load the names of all the modules in the
> subdirectory, though. That doesn't tell you what classes are in
> each module unless you either establish some standards or use
> a configuration file of some kind.

That is ok to me. I know the name of the subdirectory and the name of
the class can be found in a configfile. The class then has to be in a
file with the same name as the class, but that is ok. I already planned
establishing a certain naming convention.
 
> You could, of course, simply import all of the modules, and then
> loop through them looking for the classes.

How would this be done? Would I have to search the directory for files
and load each of them with __import__("subdir/filename")?
 
Marco
-- 
Every morning, I get up and look through the 'Forbes' list of the
richest people in America.  If I'm not there, I go to work

--
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736




From achrist at easystreet.com  Sun Sep 21 21:14:42 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:14:42 -0700
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com> <3dd5593c.0309211615.747ba123@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6E4D02.7868D52C@easystreet.com>

d2003xx wrote:
> 
> > I use Windows XP and 98.  Have very little experience with C++.  Am
> > doing statistical and other simulations that require billions of
> > calculations (taking 1 to 2 hours in Excel VBA).  GCC is free, MS
> > C++.Net is affordable
> 

It is equally trivial to connect Python to Delphi using ctypes.
Delphi can easily make a DLL that looks to the outside world like
C.  I have found Delphi to be maybe a little bit slower than MS C,
but a little faster than gcc.  They are all pretty close on speed,
so you can't really pick a winner a priori.  If you are doing VBA
now, can't you buy the entry-level version of VB for around 100
bucks and create C-callable DLL's?

Al



From pkbf-tspx at dea.spamcon.org  Mon Sep 22 13:53:16 2003
From: pkbf-tspx at dea.spamcon.org (chauhan)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 10:53:16 -0700
Subject: Trouble with  wxListCtrl
Message-ID: <49c4d036.0309220953.29b6fd1e@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

I am new to pogramming.

I have written a small program which retrieves emails from server,
unless all the messages are loaded only then it displays on screen
properlely. Whole thing works fine if I use events to activate
logMail() after start but I don't know how to activate an event at the
start (witout pressing mouse  or  menu key) as I want this to load
messages at the start of the program.

I am also having problem with statement
self.list.GetItemText(self.currentItem). The statement
self.currentItem gives the current selected item position on listctrl
this statement works fine in wxPanel (demo example wxlistctrl in
wxPython) and not with
wxFrame which I am using now as I want menubar in my application. Can
some body tell me how to get the current selected items position in
wxListCtrl with wxFrame? Same kind of problem with wxPoint(self.x,
self.y) but I can use wxGetMousePosition().

Also I would like to know how to check if internet connection is on.

Thanks in advance

Chauhan

#########
from   wxPython.wx import *
import poplib
from poplib import *

emailloglist=[2,('mail.icenter.net','username?','password?'),('pop.netzero.com','username?',
                'password?'),]
list_items = [ "item value", "on any",  "Right click", ]
class main_window(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, id, title):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, -1, title, size = (800, 600),
style=wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE|wxNO_FULL_REPAINT_ON_RESIZE)
        splitter = wxSplitterWindow(self, -1, style=wxNO_3D|wxSP_3D)
        tID=wxNewId()
        self.list = wxListCtrl(splitter, tID,
style=wxLC_REPORT|wxSUNKEN_BORDER|wxLC_SINGLE_SEL)
        self.log = wxTextCtrl(splitter, -1, style=wxTE_MULTILINE)
        splitter.SplitHorizontally(self.list, self.log, 450)
        splitter.SetMinimumPaneSize(20)
        self.list.InsertColumn( 0, 'listTitle' )
        for x in list_items: self.list.InsertStringItem(0,x)
        self.Show(true)
        EVT_COMMAND_RIGHT_CLICK(self.list, tID, self.OnRightClick)
        EVT_RIGHT_UP(self.list, self.OnRightClick)        
        self.log.WriteText(emailloglist[emailloglist[0]][2]+'\r\n')
        p=self.logMail()
    def OnRightClick(self, event):
        self.log.WriteText("OnRightClick %s\n" %
self.list.GetItemText(1))#GetItemText(self.currentItem)
        if not hasattr(self, "popupID1"):
            self.popupID1 = wxNewId()
            EVT_MENU(self, self.popupID1, self.OnPopupOne)
        menu = wxMenu()
        menu.Append(self.popupID1, "FindItem tests")
        self.PopupMenu(menu, wxGetMousePosition()) #wxPoint(self.x,
self.y)
        menu.Destroy()
    def OnPopupOne(self, event): self.log.WriteText("Popup one Find:
"+str(self.list.FindItem(-1, 'on any'))+'\r\n')
    def logMail(self):
        try:
            print wxSocketBase.IsConnected
            p = POP3 (emailloglist[emailloglist[0]][0])
            self.log.WriteText(p.user
(emailloglist[emailloglist[0]][1])+'\r\n')
            self.log.WriteText(p.pass_
(emailloglist[emailloglist[0]][2])+'\r\n')
            return p
        except error_proto:
            self.log.WriteText('msg')
class App(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = main_window(None, -1, "wxPython: (A Demonstration)")
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true
app = App(0)
app.MainLoop()
########



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Sep 24 00:44:21 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 04:44:21 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <nD7cb.2405$PT3.395618@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Fi9cb.1443$RW4.368@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Sean Ross:
> This will mostly just be some alternate naming suggestions:
>
> How about just ".backwards",  where backwards acts like a read-only
property
> that returns a generator for reverse iteration?

-1 from me.  'backwards' looks to me like something which changes
the list ordering in place, like what 'reverse' does.  Or something
which returns a new list but in reverse order.  It's an adjective,
when it should be a verb.

ibackwords would work, but so would riter or reviter or
variations thereof.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From bluheaven2 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 14:02:49 2003
From: bluheaven2 at yahoo.com (Dave)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 11:02:49 -0700
Subject: Python port to Swiss Ephemeris work with 2.3?
References: <734b753f.0309041612.2066021@posting.google.com> <vlfqpk4hup6621@news.supernews.com> <734b753f.0309042237.5ded1230@posting.google.com> <vlgutinh4i8l12@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <734b753f.0309051002.4e625e8e@posting.google.com>

> I found it on the Vaults under the Misc heading. Looks good.
> Looks a lot better than my interface.
> You need to recompile using the same compiler that Python
> was compiled with (I believe that's VC 6 for the Windows version.)
> Extension modules ***always*** need to be recompiled for major
> Python releases. John Roth

Thanks John, I wouldn't know how to do that since I haven't worked
with C much. -Dave



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 20:57:38 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:57:38 -0400
Subject: "Python Redesign" (fwd)
Message-ID: <CQ9W/kKkXo5O092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

<tim at pollenation.net> wrote:
|Can you explain to me why on earth I would put a screenshot of a HTML
|page up instead of the actual HTML.

Not really.  But I could come up with something a little more plausible
than explaining why you would design a mockup -without- using HTML.  I
suppose the mildly plausible explanation would be that you wanted to
show how it rendered in your designed-with browser.

On the other hand, I've never heard of anyone designing a page mockup
that wasn't in HTML (possibly with CSS, Javascript, etc)... and I cannot
quite figure out why you would do such a thing.

|As a respected contributor to the Python world, perhaps you could spend
|some more time being constructive about the design rather than being
|destructive.

I guess you chose not to read the suggestions that I made, or that many
other people made.  I don't reckon there's much else I can do... except,
of course, vigorously oppose use of this bad design.

Btw. What is this "commercial customer" thing you speak of?  Python is
guaranteed to remain Free Software.  It's not like the PSA is selling
"Python boxed sets"... which you seem to believe.

Yours, David...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Sep 11 17:47:42 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:47:42 -0400
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com>
 <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com>
 <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <+1OY/ks/KP3R089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mv_7b.215$o71.11 at news2.central.cox.net>,
"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote...
>> And if in some future version of Python the suggestion I made was
>> implemented, when you see f(x) you will still know that x cannot be
>> rebound - but when you see f(ref x) you will know that x may well be
>> rebound.
>>
>OK, remind me why this is better than
>
>x = Inc(x)
>
>or
>
>x, y = DoubleInc(x, y)

   My poster child here would be the idiom

        number, digit = divmod (number, base)

which is really handy in converting number to a
representation in some given base.  A different function
could simplify this (in a way) to

        digit = refdivmod (ref number, base)

but at the cost of a new function

        def refdivmod (ref a, b): ...

which, for all the duplication and the new keyword is *less*
capable than what we have, since we can use divmod for
everything refdivmod could do .. but not vice versa.

(A bit late, since everybody in the thread already agrees):     Mel.


P.S.
   This seems like another case of a change that simplifies
some particular line of code, while spreading complication
throughout the rest of the language (new keywords, more
complexity hidden behind subroutine calls, non-obvious
namespace handling.)  I haven't been able to articulate this
opinion of mine well enough to expect it to stand up in a
newsgroup.  Gerald Weinberg's _The Psychology of Computer
Programming_ has some remarks on language design that may
help me out eventually.  Yet another discussion of removing
the 'self' parameter from class methods started me off.

MPW



From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Wed Sep 17 17:44:56 2003
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 14:44:56 -0700
Subject: import on modules/files that don't have .py extension
References: <899f842.0309170649.517e0bb9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0309171344.1d919cee@posting.google.com>

anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker) wrote in message news:<899f842.0309170649.517e0bb9 at posting.google.com>...
> Is it possible to import modules/files that have something other than
> the .py extension?

You can use the imp module to achieve this. For example, for a module
called "mymodule" in a source file called "myfile" then

import imp
mymodule = imp.load_source("mymodule", "myfile")

should import the contents of "myfile" as a module which you can use
as normal. The "mymodule" parameter to the load_source function
presumably just ensures that

mymodule.__name__ = "mymodule"

so that anything relying on that has no nasty surprises. Note that, for this
example, you may end up with a file called "myfilec" alongside "myfile".

David



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Sep 10 00:32:38 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 04:32:38 GMT
Subject: CGI -- generating images -- \x0A always added!
References: <jyw7b.16997$ip5.1259550@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bjm9h6$mms$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:05:51 GMT, "M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>I'm trying to use Python for generating (or copying) images.
>The environment is Python 2.3/Apache 2.0.43/Windows XP.
>I couldn't make Apache use mod_python (anybody can help?
>Apache complains "The requested operation has failed"
>if I add LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so)
>so I use the CGI mechanism. This is the sample:
>
I would try switching to using sys.stdout.write

>#!C:\Apps\Python\python.exe -u
>
 import sys
>img = open( 'a.gif', 'rb' ) # OK, don't make the image, just use the file
>if img:
>  data = img.read()
>  img.close()
>
>print "Content-type: image/gif"
>print
The above two might work ok, but might as well use
sys.stdout.write consistently instead, e.g.,

 # untested ...
 sys.stdout.write('Content-type: image/gif\n\n') # should be the same
>
>print data,
 sys.stdout.write(data)
 sys.stdout.close()
>
># EOF
>
>Everything's good, and '-u' helps not to add '\x0D' for each '\x0A'
>inside the data. BUT it seems that the last print ALWAYS adds LF
>'\x0A' in spite of the final comma. How can I fix that? Thank you.
>
HTH. It should be easy to try. Let us know.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From uce at ftc.gov  Thu Sep 18 16:00:26 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:00:26 -0400
Subject: Scaling Tk scrollbar handles
In-Reply-To: <bkd1fu$76o$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <K96dnU3ln-RTefSiU-KYvg@comcast.com> <bkd1fu$76o$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <iWWdndrmHopUk_eiU-KYhw@comcast.com>

Thanks, I hadn't seen those. There are quite a few documents about this 
out there with highly variable readability, comprehensiveness, and 
up-to-date-edness. I think I've been relying on the effbot documents too 
much.




From dokaspar at student.ethz.ch  Thu Sep 25 14:01:02 2003
From: dokaspar at student.ethz.ch (Dominik Kaspar)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 11:01:02 -0700
Subject: sockets
Message-ID: <62e9c66e.0309251001.2bfa684@posting.google.com>

i want to write a thread in python that listens for client connections
to a socket and creates new server threads for each of the connections
it detects. is there a simple way to do this by using socket.listen(1)
and socket.accept()?
-- dominik



From ivoras at fer.hr  Thu Sep 18 05:49:31 2003
From: ivoras at fer.hr (Ivan Voras)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:49:31 +0200
Subject: Multithreading and locking
Message-ID: <bkbv5l$kgl$1@bagan.srce.hr>

Is it true what I heard (as a "rumour" of sorts), that in multithreaded
Python programs global variables are already automagically protected by
mutexes? Can someone clarify on that?

-- 
-- 
Every sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology
   - Arthur C Anticlarke





From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep 22 16:31:52 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 22:31:52 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309220724.7b684aa2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3oexc5zuv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan) writes:

> So is Python just another shit legacy implementation?

Yes :-)

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Sep 28 17:57:29 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:57:29 -0400
Subject: Checking for invalid keyword arguments?
References: <roy-B6EED5.17061128092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F775949.18A9312A@engcorp.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> 
> I've got a function that takes a couple of optional keyword arguments.
> I want to check to make sure I didn't get passed an argument I didn't
> expect.  Right now I'm doing:
> 
>         conversion = None
>         drop = False
>         for key, value in kwArgs.items():
>             if key == 'conversion':
>                 conversion = value
>             elif key == 'drop':
>                 drop = value
>             else:
>                 raise TypeError ('Unexpected keyword argument %s' % key)
> 
> which seems kind of verbose.  Is there a neater way to do this check?

I'd suggest writing a general-purpose subroutine which can do the necessary 
checks for you, then use a one-liner to call it with the "pattern" you 
require.  It might look like this for the call:

   conversion, drop = checkOptArgs(kwArgs, conversion=None, drop=False)

This clearly shows the allowed keyword args, their default values, and assigns
values to the local names on return.  It can of course raise the TypeError
for you if a bad name is in kwArgs.

-Peter



From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep  2 12:42:19 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:42:19 +0300
Subject: Simple question: How to pass a C++ class reference to a callback?
In-Reply-To: <uznhn5hlp.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
References: <17fbc98a.0309020423.11ac7b8d@posting.google.com> <aB-dnSBw_cewCsmiXTWJiw@comcast.com> <uznhn5hlp.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <OJ35b.2277$ZB4.660@reader1.news.jippii.net>

David Abrahams wrote:
> "T. Panbru" <panbru at comcast.net> writes:
> 
>>Try encapsulating your C++ class reference in a CObject, using:
>>
>>     PyObject* PyCObject_FromVoidPtr( void* cobj, void (*destr)(void *))
>>     void* PyCObject_AsVoidPtr( PyObject* self)
>>
>>and so forth, to go back and forth between the C++ and Python realms.
>>
>>Check out the Python docs at:
>>
>>     http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/api/cObjects.html
>>
> 
> 
> Or use one of the high-level wrapping tools such as Boost.Python
> (http://www.boost.org/libs/python) which make this stuff much easier
> and safer.

Boost.Python is not 2.3 compatible yet, but it seems very good.

Harri




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 15 16:35:41 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:35:41 -0400
Subject: calling objects parents'  __init__?
References: <e13963e818473ad69d0a49230e328b91@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <3F66229D.1C28AD48@engcorp.com>

user at domain.invalid wrote:
> 
> Normally, when I inherit from a class that I have written,
> I want instances of the new class to call the __init__ of
> the old (actually, starting from the top of the tree, and
> moving on down).
> 
> What is the preferred way to do this?

The preferred way is to call your parent's __init__, if it
has one:

class Parent:
    def __init__(self):
        # useful stuff happens here

class Child:
    def __init__(self):
        Parent.__init__(self)
        # other stuff, some useful, happens here

There are more sophisticated, less readable approaches, and I suspect
Python 2.2 or 2.3 add a new idiom as well.

-Peter



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  5 01:20:45 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 05:20:45 GMT
Subject: Coloring markup simply...
Message-ID: <vt6glvop1125lkrs8vq910pvj9b0v2ttr8@4ax.com>

What's the best method for coloring simple markup?

<xyz att="val" att="val">

You can assume it is not HTML or XML or valid anything
except markup which happens to look somewhat like them.

You can assume xyz < > = and " always exist for each tag.

What methods are usually employed?

I am not exactly looking for a boxed or roundabout solution using a big
3rd party package. I am curious and want something simple and/or clever.
I would like to know what the common methods for doing this might be.

If re supported some sort of nesting/recursion I think I could do it, but
it seems it does not, so I am currently using a bunch of re expressions,
and it's not exactly fun. I am considering a straight parser with finite
state machine instead... but I thought I'd ask... What other methods?

( p.s. The coloring aspect is not exactly important, as long as
  whatever the method is would allow me to color it, ie. parse it )



From mwh at python.net  Thu Sep 18 09:28:14 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:28:14 GMT
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F62123C.F671D058@engcorp.com> <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <7h3k786cjsf.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Paul Foley wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:33:42 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> > 
> > > Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
> > >>
> > >> According to Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com>:
> > >> > kasper graversen wrote:
> > >> > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:36:44 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > >> > > >> Erm, what's "MOP" mean?
> > >> > > what has all this talk to do with documentation of the MOP???
> > >> > Er, if you'll look back, you'll see that Anthony asked what MOP
> > >> > meant
> > >>
> > >> Meta Object Protocol.
> > 
> > > Thanks, but one might say that this is what it spells, not what it _means_.
> > 
> > Read the introduction to _The Art of the Metaobject Protocol_, at
> > http://www2.parc.com/csl/groups/sda/publications/papers/Kiczales-AMOP/
> 
> Thanks Paul.
> 
> If that description is taken as authoritative about "the MOP", then it 
> seems to me after a first reading that Python *has no MOP*, and probably
> will not, given Guido's approach to language design.  
> 
> Am I correct?

I'm not sure.  In Python, you can come fairly close to being able to do 

class MyType(object):
    ...

and have instances of instances of MyType look pretty much like
instances of instances of type (which is to say, regular Python
objects), which I think of as being one of the properties of having a
full blown MOP.  But I don't think you can get all the way there
(e.g. getting isinstance to work properly with ones custom objects &
types seems unlikely).

>From one viewpoint, this is partially because various bits of the
Python core just reach in for, e.g., the tp_bases field of a type
object.  To have a "true MOP", it feels as if these bits would need to
be changed to respects any descriptors that may have been set on,
e.g. again, __bases__.  This would probably have performance (and
circularity) implications for the interpreter.

(I spent a while last year trying to find a way of creating a
metaclass that would allow mutation of __bases__, which is where these
thoughts come from).

> Or does the term really have a broader meaning than what
> I get out of that page, and Python in fact has aspects that could be called
> its meta-object protocol?
> 
> Key phrase: "Metaobject protocols are interfaces to the language
> that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> behavior and implementation...".  Near as I can tell, part of the
> whole character of Python is that a user *cannot* do either of those
> things.

I would say Python's metaclass facility is at least part of a MOP.
Python certainly does not have as thorough a MOP as that describe in
the Art of the Metaobject Protocol, to be sure.  I'm not sure how much
interest (or value...) there would be in extending what we have now.
Could make an interesting dissertation project :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Finding a needle in a haystack is a lot easier if you burn down
  the haystack and scan the ashes with a metal detector.
      -- the Silicon Valley Tarot (another one nicked from David Rush)



From kalike2003 at netscape.net  Fri Sep 12 10:54:58 2003
From: kalike2003 at netscape.net (Kali K E)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 07:54:58 -0700
Subject: Copying latest version of the file
Message-ID: <ab5a234a.0309120654.3ca8487c@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am new to Python and excuse me if this problem is very trivial. The
problem is like this.
There is a directory (dirA) that contains files like
mypacakge-2.2.5-15.rpm, mypacakge-2.2.5-90.rpm,
anotherpackage-3.4.25.rpm etc.. As can be seen, some of the files are
new versions of same rpm (mypacakge-2.2.5-15.rpm,
mypacakge-2.2.5-90.rpm in this example). It is also true that their
timestamps are different. The program has to check for latest version
of each package and copy them to another directory (dirB). That means
in this case, it has to copy mypacakge-2.2.90.rpm to another
directory.
The directory dirA would be containing more than 500 files. Out of
these many, about 100 files may be having new version.
Another point is the number of files of same package is NOT limited to
2. So we may have mypacakge-2.2.5-15.rpm, mypacakge-2.2.5-90.rpm,
mypacakge-2.2.5-100.rpm, mypacakge-2.2.5-227.rpm in dirA and only
mypacakge-2.2.5-227.rpm has to be copied to dirB.
The same thing has to be repeated in other directories at the same
level as dirA.
Please let me know how to do this.
Thanks,
Kali



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 21 17:43:56 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 22:43:56 +0100
Subject: Proxy Authentication using urllib2
References: <mailman.1064015428.25301.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87u1754y1v.fsf@pobox.com>

Andre Bocchini <lists at andrebocchini.com> writes:

> I'm having some trouble using proxy authentication.  I can't figure
> out how to authenticate with a Squid proxy.  I know for a fact the
> proxy is using Basic instead of Digest for the authentication.  I can
> authenticate just fine using Mozilla.  I've done some Google searches,
> but the closest piece of code I've is is for HTTPBasicAuthHandler:
[...]
> proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" : "http://myproxy:3128"})
> proxy_auth_handler = urllib2.ProxyBasicAuthHandler()
> proxy_auth_handler.add_password(None, "myproxy", "myname", "mypass")
> opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_handler, proxy_auth_handler)
> urllib2.install_opener(opener)
> f = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.python.org")
> data = f.readlines()

Can't see anything wrong with that.


> I always get a 407 error.

Are you sure you don't need a realm?  Try sniffing what Mozilla and
Python are sending (using eg. ethereal).  You *should* get a 407
response, IIRC, but then urllib2 should respond with an appropriate
Proxy-authorization header.

If that helped, please look at the doc patch here

http://www.python.org/sf/798244


test it, and post a comment to say whether or not it worked (and which
examples you tried -- preferably all of them ;).


John



From a9605473 at unet.univie.ac.at  Wed Sep 17 04:43:30 2003
From: a9605473 at unet.univie.ac.at (Gaubitzer Erwin)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:43:30 +0200
Subject: Dislin compilation
References: <3f62eabc$0$12398$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at> <3F6725B7.1E854D44@linmpi.mpg.de>
Message-ID: <3f681ef1$0$19360$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>

Thanks to all, who have answered
(per mail or in thread)

For all others, who also don't know how to do I summarize shortly

1. The make_py script looks for the Include and the Config directories.
        These are in the Python developers version (python-devel rpm 
        for SuSE:
  PYTH_INC="/usr/include/python2.2/"            for python version 2.2
  PYTH_CONF="/usr/lib/python2.2/config"
        in the appropriate section (lnx for Linux)
2. The DISLIN variable has to be defined, for instance in the shell by
        export DISLIN=/usr/local/dislin         (default directory)
3. Calling
  make_py lnx
        for Linux OS
4. Copying the module to the right directory
        cp dislinmodule.so /usr/local/dislin/python

Now it should work




From max at nospam.com  Tue Sep  2 15:44:22 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:44:22 GMT
Subject: current HTML generation frameworks rundown...
Message-ID: <qq65b.71682$ev.15649206@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Hi all,
I am looking for a recent rundown of HTML generation frameworks
rated by
1) being up-to date
2) power
3) complexity

and more informally - what do python folks like to use for HTML
generation these days? thanks -

max




From webmaster at ac-strasbourg.fr  Fri Sep 26 05:25:25 2003
From: webmaster at ac-strasbourg.fr (webmaster at ac-strasbourg.fr)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 02:25:25 -0700
Subject: Compiling informxidb-1.3 on python2.2?
References: <bc2ee265.0309221612.37ed0840@posting.google.com> <slrnbmvjva.t30.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org> <bc2ee265.0309231414.5689a323@posting.google.com> <bc2ee265.0309251534.ca2bfcc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <92c875f.0309260125.7fcdceeb@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to compile it in order to use it on Zope 2.6.1 (python
2.1.3) on a RedHat 7.3, with Informix SDK csdk280_UC21LIN. Is it
possible at least ?

I've find a few infos about it in the ng, and here's what I dit :

cd $INFORMIXDIR/lib/esql
mkdir tmp
cp libifgen.so orig_libifgen.so
cp libifgen.a tmp
cd tmp
ar x libifgen.a
gcc -shared -o libifgen.so *.o
cp libifgen.so ..
cd ..
rm -rf tmp
su - root
ldconfig

In informixdb-1.3 sources directory:
./configure
Edit ext/Makefile: change CFLAGS (line 100) to include
-I${INFORMIXDIR}/incl/esql
esql ext/_informix.ec"

and here's what I get :

/usr/informix/lib/esql/libifos.so: the use of `mktemp' is dangerous,
better use `mkstemp'
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/2.96/../../../crt1.o: In function
`_start':
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/2.96/../../../crt1.o(.text+0x18):
undefined reference to `main'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbCursor':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x346): undefined reference to `PyObject_Init'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbCurClose':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x5bc): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x5c1): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbPrintError':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x753): undefined reference to `PyErr_SetString'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbClose':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x7e2): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x7e7): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `connectionGetAttr':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x833): undefined reference to `Py_FindMethod'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbCommit':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x90e): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x913): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbRollback':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x9aa): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x9af): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ibindRaw':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xbb5): undefined reference to `dbiValue'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xbc8): undefined reference to `PyObject_Str'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ibindDate':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xcb5): undefined reference to `dbiValue'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xcc0): undefined reference to `PyNumber_Long'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xcdd): undefined reference to `PyLong_AsLong'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xd93): undefined reference to `PyErr_SetString'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ibindString':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xdb9): undefined reference to `PyObject_Str'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xe36): undefined reference to `PyLong_Type'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ibindFcn':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xeb5): undefined reference to `dbiIsRaw'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xed3): undefined reference to `dbiIsDate'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0xeeb): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `bindInput':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x10b4): undefined reference to `PyObject_Size'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1112): undefined reference to
`PySequence_GetItem'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1187): undefined reference to
`PyErr_SetString'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `bindOutput':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1259): undefined reference to `PyTuple_New'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x12d5): undefined reference to `Py_BuildValue'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbCurExec':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1538): undefined reference to
`PyArg_ParseTuple'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1828): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x182d): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1839): undefined reference to
`PyEval_SaveThread'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x187d): undefined reference to
`PyEval_RestoreThread'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x18b3): undefined reference to `Py_BuildValue'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `doCopy':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1a7e): undefined reference to `PyInt_FromLong'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1a87): undefined reference to `dbiMakeDate'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1aa4): undefined reference to `PyInt_FromLong'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1aad): undefined reference to `dbiMakeDate'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1b08): undefined reference to `Py_BuildValue'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1b20): undefined reference to
`PyFloat_FromDouble'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1b3c): undefined reference to
`PyFloat_FromDouble'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1b64): undefined reference to
`PyFloat_FromDouble'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1b7b): undefined reference to `PyInt_FromLong'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1b8d): undefined reference to `PyInt_FromLong'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1bba): undefined reference to
`PyString_FromStringAndSize'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1bc3): undefined reference to `dbiMakeRaw'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1bce): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1bd3): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `processOutput':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1bf0): undefined reference to `PyTuple_New'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1c38): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbCurFetchOne':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1cb7): undefined reference to
`PyEval_SaveThread'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1cf8): undefined reference to
`PyEval_RestoreThread'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1d20): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1d25): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbFetchCounted':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1d88): undefined reference to `PyList_New'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1df3): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1e2e): undefined reference to `PyList_Append'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbCurFetchMany':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1ed5): undefined reference to
`PyArg_ParseTuple'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbCurSetInputSizes':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1f29): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1f2e): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbCurSetOutputSize':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1f39): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1f3e): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `cursorGetAttr':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1f82): undefined reference to `_Py_NoneStruct'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1f87): more undefined references to
`_Py_NoneStruct' follow
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `cursorGetAttr':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1fcb): undefined reference to `Py_FindMethod'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `ifxdbLogon':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x1ff5): undefined reference to
`PyArg_ParseTuple'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x2022): undefined reference to `PyObject_Init'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x205a): undefined reference to
`PyEval_SaveThread'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x2083): undefined reference to
`PyEval_RestoreThread'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o: In function `init_informixdb':
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x214d): undefined reference to `Py_InitModule4'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x2167): undefined reference to `Py_BuildValue'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x2187): undefined reference to
`PyModule_GetDict'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x2192): undefined reference to
`PyDict_SetItemString'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.text+0x21cc): undefined reference to `initdbi'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.data+0x24): undefined reference to `PyType_Type'
/tmp/cc3c2Xz6.o(.data+0xe4): undefined reference to `PyType_Type'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

What's wrong with this ?

Thanks



From jeffh at activestate.com  Tue Sep  9 11:33:28 2003
From: jeffh at activestate.com (Jeff Hobbs)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 15:33:28 GMT
Subject: Image on disabled button
In-Reply-To: <1062436629.69505.0@dyke.uk.clara.net>
References: <1062436629.69505.0@dyke.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <cpm7b.930437$3C2.21206984@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

Richard Townsend wrote:

> Is there a known problem with images on disabled buttons on Tk8.4.4 ?
> 
> If I create a button widget using a bitmap as the image and make the button
> disabled, not all of the image becomes stippled. The 3 left hand columns of
> pixels and the bottom 3 rows of pixels are left unchanged. This is most
> obvious if you use a black square as the bitmap.
> 
> If I run the same application using Tk8.3.4 this doesn't happen - the
> stipple is applied to the whole image.
> 
> I am using Python2.3 + Tkinter to test this.

Do you have a sample bitmap and code snipper (Tcl/Tk or Tkinter) that
one can repro this with?  There were some fixes that went in for
compound buttons (those that display both image and text), but I don't
think anything changed for regular bitmaps.

-- 
     Jeff Hobbs                     The Tcl Guy
     Senior Developer               http://www.ActiveState.com/
         Tcl Support and Productivity Solutions




From graham at rockcons.co.uk  Fri Sep 12 08:48:12 2003
From: graham at rockcons.co.uk (Graham Nicholls)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:48:12 +0100
Subject: list to string
References: <Km68b.2494$YL.621@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <t9t1mv8tph5ulv69k3mt6ihu4v0rkhsnjm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9gj8b.7030$YL.2741@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:07:38 +0100, Graham Nicholls
> <graham at rockcons.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>>Hi.  Sorry if this is really dim, but I'm trying to do something like:
>>
>>main (args):
>>        fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")
>>
> 
> args[1:] is a slice. So if args is a list, args[1:] is a list, if it's
> a string, it's a string, etc... open expects a string -- as you
> probably have already figured out.
> 
>>and get an error that open is expecting a string not a list.
>>
> 
> So either you are passing the wrong argument: e.g. a list instead of a
> string, or then, if you do want to pass a list then you have to change
> your code. But now the course to follow depends on what you want to
> do. So you have to explain a little more.
> 
> With my best regards,
> G. Rodrigues
Thanks all - I knew it was something stupid.  These days I don't get to do
enough programming, so I tend to make silly mistakes like this one -
clearly I wanted something like:
        fhand=open(argv[1],"rw")

So thanks again.

Graham
-- 
#include <wit>



From axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com  Thu Sep 18 10:51:40 2003
From: axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com (Axel Straschil)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:51:40 +0200
Subject: How to inheritance overwrite non virtual?
Message-ID: <slrnbmjhjr.gud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>

Hi!

I've got an class with a couple of depending methods.
I want to inheritance and create a new class where just
one method ist overwritten. 

My problem: When python is executing the mother-method,
not the depending mother-method is taken, it take the
method of the chield.

In my example, i want that K2.bestCaptionlong() returns
the same as KObject.bestCaptionlong() - no way!

I've tryed (in K2) something like:
 def bestCaptionlong(self):
	return KObject().bestCaptionlong()
which I expected to be like KObject::bestCaptionlong() in
C++, but it doesn't work ;-(

Any Idea how to make the mother-class calling her method's?

Here is my Example:

class KObject:
	def __init__(self):
		self._label=None
		self._caption=None
		self._captionlong=None
	def __str__(self):
		return (
			"label: [%s], %s, (%s)\n"+
			"caption: [%s], %s, (%s)\n"+
			"captionlong: [%s], %s, (%s)"
		)%(	self._label, self.label(), self.bestLabel(),
			self._caption, self.caption(), self.bestCaption(),
			self._captionlong, self.captionlong(), self.bestCaptionlong()
		)
	def label(self):
		return self._label
	def caption(self):
		return self._caption
	def captionlong(self):
		return self._captionlong
	def bestLabel(self):
		return self.label()
	def bestCaption(self):
		if self.caption() is not None:
			return self.caption()
		else:
			return self.bestLabel()
	def bestCaptionlong(self):
		if self.captionlong() is not None:
			return self.captionlong()
		else:
			return self.bestCaption()

class K2(KObject):
	def bestCaption(self):
		return "Overwritten"

k = KObject()
k._label='x'

k2 = K2()
k2._label='x'

print k
print k2

Thanks, AXEL.



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 10:19:12 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:19:12 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:39:14 +0100, Stephen Horne
<$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:47:05 -0400, "John Roth"
><newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>>do:
>>    bibbity
>>    bobbity
>>    boo
>>    while condition  # note the lack of a colon!
>
>Yuck!!!
>
>This is really no different to the following, which is quoted in the
>PEP as something to move away from...
>
>  while True :
>    ...
>    if condition : break
>    ...
>
>The fundamental problem is that the exit point is not obvious because
>it is 'hidden' in the detail of the loop - it is a statement within
>the loop body instead of being lexically a part of the loop.

It is very different indeed.  In the second case stuff can go after
the "if condition: break", so the terminating condition is potentially
buried in the surrounding code.  On my reading of John's proposal
nothing can go after the "while condition", so the end is clearly
marked in the Python way by the indentation dropping back a level.

What I /don't/ like about it is the overloading of the "while"
keyword.  I would much sooner reverse the condition and use "until",
though I realise the back-compatibility issues of introducing new
keywords.




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Sep  6 11:00:05 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 11:00:05 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F5891C8.A7DD1A20@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bjcspl$6l4$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3F5891C8.A7DD1A20 at hotmail.com>,
Alan Kennedy  <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>On a lighter note, a fantastic book that I really enjoyed reading (for
>leisure) was
>
>Kil'n People, by David Brin.
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/used/-/1841491381/
>It's nothing less than a masterpiece of modern sci-fi. IMHO :-)

Ugh.  It's not a bad book, but while I like David Brin in general, his
quality has slipped in recent years and I'd recommend something else,
depending on the taste of the reader:

Military SF: David Weber (start with _On Basilisk Station_) or Lois
McMaster Bujold (start with _Shards of Honor_, but don't read _Barrayar_
yet if you pick up the _Cordelia's Honor_ omnibus).

Social SF: anything by Ursual K. LeGuin, _Courtship Rite_ by Donald
Kingsbury

General SF: _In Conquest Born_ by C.S. Friedman; _Sundiver_, by David
Brin; _Pride of Chanur_, C.J. Cherryh; _The Mote in God's Eye_, Larry
Niven & Jerry Pournelle

Fantasy: _Godstalk_ by P.C. Hodgell (available in the omnibus _Dark of
the Gods_)

High fantasy: _Riddlemaster of Hed_ by Patricia McKillip

These are just a few that I pulled up with a couple of minutes thought;
I've got many, many more.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Thu Sep  4 23:17:43 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:17:43 -0400
Subject: Open Source leader? (was Re: Celebrity advice)
Message-ID: <007b01c3735c$481c3720$0c02a8c0@Arts>

>Come on guys, no fighting!  

>Would it help if we all just agreed that you're both a couple of assholes
>and get it over with?  ;-)

I disagree!

What was the question?

Art





From lupan at zamek.gda.pl  Mon Sep 22 15:34:41 2003
From: lupan at zamek.gda.pl (Lukasz Pankowski)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:34:41 +0200
Subject: Trouble with  wxListCtrl
References: <49c4d036.0309220953.29b6fd1e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <874qz41usu.fsf@psi.lupan.zamek.gda.pl>

pkbf-tspx at dea.spamcon.org (chauhan) writes:

> I am also having problem with statement
> self.list.GetItemText(self.currentItem). The statement
> self.currentItem gives the current selected item position on listctrl
> this statement works fine in wxPanel (demo example wxlistctrl in
> wxPython) and not with
> wxFrame which I am using now as I want menubar in my application. Can
> some body tell me how to get the current selected items position in
> wxListCtrl with wxFrame? Same kind of problem with wxPoint(self.x,
> self.y) but I can use wxGetMousePosition().
>

Hi, wxPanel or wxFrame has nothing to do with self.currentItem, this
attribute is set to 0 in TestListCtrlPanel.PopulateList in mentioned
example, they register a handler for item selection

        EVT_LIST_ITEM_SELECTED(self, tID, self.OnItemSelected)

and in this hanler they set it to currently selected item:

   def OnItemSelected(self, event):
        ##print event.GetItem().GetTextColour()
        self.currentItem = event.m_itemIndex
        # [...]

This method tracks user selection, the other way is to find the
selected item when you need it:

    currentItem = self.list.GetNextItem(
        -1, wxLIST_NEXT_ALL, wxLIST_STATE_SELECTED)

this finds first selected item (first after -1).

-- 

=*= Lukasz Pankowski =*=



From ask at me.com  Tue Sep 30 13:48:46 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:48:46 GMT
Subject: xml.dom.minidom question
References: <3f79ad4b$0$10696$ba620e4c@reader2.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <2mjeb.10237$NX3.9179@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

"Geiregat Jonas" <eniac at sdf-eu.org> wrote in message
news:3f79ad4b$0$10696$ba620e4c at reader2.news.skynet.be...
> I'm using xml.dom.minidom, I get some data by using
> obj.getElementsByTagName("name")[0] then I have an object, but how can I
> get the data between the tags ? I could do .toxml() and then strip it
> away. But is there a better way maybe a function made for it ?
> Also is it possible using the xml.dom.minidom module to create modify an
> xml file ?

Given <name>Greg</name>, 'Greg' is considered an element inside the 'name'
element. So, all you have to do is go one level of elements deeper.

myname = obj.getElementsByTagName("name")[0].childNodes[0].data


greg





From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Sep 10 09:54:36 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guetttler)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:54:36 +0200
Subject: xml.sax: Raising Exception with line number of xml source
References: <pan.2003.09.08.15.08.55.650463@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.10.13.54.36.655763@thomas-guettler.de>

Am Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:08:56 +0200 schrieb Thomas Guetttler:

> Hi!
> 
> How can I raise an exception while parsing with sax,
> which contains the current line in the xml-file?
> 
> I want to create an message like this:
>  test.xml: Line: 100, Col: 20: <foo> not allowed in <bar>
> 
> I have the filename in my content handler. I just need
> the line und column number.


Found it myself:

in e.g. startElement() of MyContentHandler:
  self._locator.getLineNumber()

 thomas




From mpeuser at web.de  Tue Sep  2 14:40:42 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:40:42 +0200
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com> <bis8k4$sjv$00$1@news.t-online.com> <m349lvgot9ghsmii9b85uoq34qfhbho8jq@4ax.com> <js99lvguv5vdvmmjfpdmgmo5dnq5akttfb@news.stofanet.dk>
Message-ID: <bj2o8b$qcm$06$1@news.t-online.com>

"Bertel Lund Hansen" <nospamius at lundhansen.dk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:js99lvguv5vdvmmjfpdmgmo5dnq5akttfb at news.stofanet.dk...
> Daniel Klein skrev:
>
> >It's not a problem really. I just thought there would be a better,
> >more elegant way to achieve polymorphism without using getters.
>
> A note on words:
>
> If a class operates with for instance a bullet, then derived
> classes thereof may operate with a metal bullet, a rubber bullet,
> a grenade or a missile. They all operate as bullets, and the fact
> that the same object can be instantiated as many different
> things, is called polymorphism. "Poly morph" = "many shaped".
>
> "Encapsulation" is the word that describes the effort(s) to make
> it impossible for the user of a module to access the attributes
> (and hidden methods) directly and only allow him to do it through
> public methods with build-in check so that no disasters occur.
>

There is another term: "overloading" and I put the OP's question in that
drawer. But I have lerned now, that "overloading" can be catalogued as
"ad-hoc-polymorphism" whereas the situation when applying a method of a base
class to an instance of a derived class is called "universal polymorphism"
;-)

Kindly
Michael P





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 06:41:22 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:41:22 +0100
Subject: extension call backs and the GIL
Message-ID: <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I'm trying to better my understanding of multithreading. I believe a
thread that calls an extension must have the GIL. What happens if the
extension then calls back into Python? Can a function or method somehow
'belong' to a different thread? My understanding was that things should
be OK provided the extension code doesn't mess with the GIL (which it
doesn't).

I'm asking because the ReportLab tool kit contains an accelerator for a
stringWidth function that relies on a callback to fill in some global
data upon demand. A user reports thread problems when using the
accelerator.
-- 
Robin Becker



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Sep  9 07:42:02 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:42:02 +0200
Subject: MacOS/NeXTStep propert list parsing?
References: <57f2d810.0309080440.21eae97a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <just-0C1ABD.13420209092003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <57f2d810.0309080440.21eae97a at posting.google.com>,
 lars_news at larsshack.org (Lars Kellogg-Stedman) wrote:

> I've been trying to find a Python module for parsing the non-XML
> PropertList format used in MacOS X (this is what Apple's docs refer to
> as "ASCII format" property lists).
> 
> I've sound one or two parsers for the XML format, but nothing that
> parses the legacy format.  I was hoping someone here had written (or
> was aware of) a parser for the older style.

If you're only running this on MacOSX, then look at PyObjC, I'm pretty 
sure Cocoa itself can parse these files.

Just



From guineapig at pi.be  Thu Sep  4 07:06:44 2003
From: guineapig at pi.be (Tom Van den Brandt)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:06:44 +0200
Subject: pyQT pushButton
References: <bj4cn1$ibu$1@reader10.wxs.nl> <8765kaox6q.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bj76cu$8tl$1@reader11.wxs.nl>

John J. Lee wrote:

> Tom Van den Brandt <guineapig at pi.be> writes:
> 
>> Is there anyone using pyQt who can tell me if I can set/change the
>> internal
>> id of a pushbutton myself ?  I can't find anything in the docs...
> 
> What internal id?  I don't remember one.  What problem are you trying
> to solve?
> 
> 
> John

Every button within a buttongroup gets a buttongroupid. That way if a button
is clicked, you can know wich button in the group it was...  
Problem is solved now, I could simply set the id's with qtdesigner.  That
was something I overlooked.

Tnx,

-- 
Tom Van den Brandt
I try...



From david at fielden.com.au  Mon Sep  1 20:17:02 2003
From: david at fielden.com.au (DG)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:17:02 +1000
Subject: just a beep
In-Reply-To: <bj0mou$ovv$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <000701c370e7$892ed550$5401a8c0@borg.fielden.com.au>

print chr(7)

:)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Leo
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2003 10:04 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: just a beep
> 
> 
> hi there
> 
> i want python to do a beep.
> 
> in the docu i found in tkinter the method
> 	bell()
> but the script:
> 	import Tkinter
> 	Tkinter.bell()
> gives the error:
> 	AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'bell'
> 
> so how can i make python beep? (maybe even without the 
> tkinter overhead?)
> 
> cheers, leo





From ia4598 at fh-wedel.de  Fri Sep 19 04:52:26 2003
From: ia4598 at fh-wedel.de (Masiar Farahani)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:52:26 +0200
Subject: PpythonWin: Unix File Mode
Message-ID: <bkeg4c$pn98$1@ID-206790.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

Is there a option in PythonWin to write files in unix file mode?

Regards
Masiar




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Mon Sep 22 19:35:39 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:35:39 -0700
Subject: Slicing vs .startswith
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <3F6F12A1.3010702@bu.edu> <mailman.1064246454.19668.python-list@python.org> <6e7b9822.0309221439.6dea760e@posting.google.com> <3F6F8306.1ABCC6D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-7A2CB7.16353922092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3F6F8306.1ABCC6D at engcorp.com>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Paul wrote:
> > 
> > However, what if you don't want case sensitivity?  For example, to
> > check if a file is a jpg, I do name[-3:].lower() == 'jpg'.  This will
> > work with both foo.jpg and foo.JPG.
> > 
> > Is this slower than name.lower().endswith('jpg')?  Is there a better
> > solution altogether?
> 
> Yes, of course. :-)
> 
> import os
> if os.path.splitext(name)[1].lower() == 'jpg':
>     pass
> 
> That also handles the problem with files named "ThisFileIs.NotAjpg" 
> being mistreated, as the other solutions do. ;-)

I was about to post the same answer.  One minor nit, though: it should be

os.path.splitext(name)[1].lower() == '.jpg'

It may be a little longer than the other solutions, but it expresses the 
meaning more clearly.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From Huzzah! at Huzzah.com  Thu Sep 18 06:58:44 2003
From: Huzzah! at Huzzah.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:58:44 GMT
Subject: audio module
References: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <Odeab.4545046$cI2.642238@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <Edgab.7240$kg.4463@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

Joe Francia wrote in article <Odeab.4545046$cI2.642238 at news.easynews.com>:

> Todd Stephens wrote:
>> Is there such a module containing audio tools?  I am looking specifically
>> for tools to manipulate ogg-vorbis and convert other formats (mp3, wav)
>> to ogg.
>> 
> 
> Here are some Ogg Vorbis bindings for Python:
> 
> http://www.andrewchatham.com/pyogg/

Excellent.  Thanks to everyone that responded.  Honestly I was not sure if
there was going to be anything out there for this.  I think I can work with
what I have been shown here.  Thanks again.


-- 
Todd Stephens
ICQ# 3150790
"A witty saying proves nothing."
                -Voltaire



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 15:40:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 12:40:10 -0700
Subject: Quickie mail.python.org status
Message-ID: <727daa7e.0309031140.1af820b2@posting.google.com>

(Posted via Google so some fraction of the c.l.py community sees
it. :-)

I noticed that python-related mail has been at best trickling in today,
so took a quick peek at mail.python.org.  Since 4am today exim has
rejected over 15,000 messages because they contained executable
attachments or suspicious (sobig-style) subjects.  I'm sure that's nothing
compared to sites like SourceForge or AOL, but it conspires to keep
useful mail from flowing through that machine.

They said it was going to be bad after everyone returned from the long
holiday and late-summer vacations.  I guess they were right...

Skip



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Sep  7 12:59:52 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:59:52 -0400
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <bjebpo$h85$1@panix3.panix.com> <VlOdnTfgosIdRceiXTWJhg@comcast.com> <bjfm7k$fi1$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bTydnaHj4PWU-caiU-KYvg@comcast.com>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:bjfm7k$fi1$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> Speaking as the champion of Lynx, I absolutely agree.  ;-)  Don't
worry,
> I'll veto anything that doesn't have excellent readability, though I
> don't know to what extent I personally will check against browsers
other
> than Lynx and Opera.

Email me a URL of a serious proposal and I will view with IE and reply
with comment re readability.  Or just post and let several people
test.

Terry J. Reedy





From max at alcyone.com  Sun Sep  7 15:51:45 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 12:51:45 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com>

Tim Parkin wrote:

> Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it's
> a
> proposal and a work in progress.

Could someone remind me what need there is for a redesign in the first
place?  Of all the Python-related efforts that one could put time into,
this seems like one of the least useful.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Then you give me that Judas Kiss / Could you hurt me more than this
\__/  Lamya



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep 30 07:58:35 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 12:58:35 +0100
Subject: python, vtk, C++
References: <mailman.1064893483.14489.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d6dicwt0.fsf@pobox.com>

"Yi-Yu Chou" <chouyiyu at hotmail.com> writes:

> I want to use python as my GUI to load a 3D volume (vtkImageData),
> and use a pointer to pass this 3D image to my own C++ class.
> My question is I don't know how to communicate between python and C++.
> Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Google.


John



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 14:18:28 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:18:28 -0500
Subject: Zope mailing lists dead ?
In-Reply-To: <bj7m7s$oe8$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <bj7ghb$1ebf$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
        <bj7m7s$oe8$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <16215.33268.31710.220181@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> I didn't receive anything from the various Zope mailing lists I
    >> should receive.

    aahz> mail.python.org is currently not processing mail; dunno whether
    aahz> it's related.

It was.  mail.python.org == mail.zope.org.  Barry Warsaw, Andrew Kuchling
and Jeremy Hylton got things put back together nicely and mail is flowing
once again.  I kibbitzed.  If you run into any of them, they deserve a beer.

Skip




From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Sep  8 03:44:34 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:44:34 -0700
Subject: Is there a unicode EOF mark like DOS ascii ctl-z or unix crl-d ?
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <m3n0df3ne4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vlocr2dkq5sr1b@corp.supernews.com>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> No, there is no need to have one (neither is there a need to have one
> for plain ASCII files): The end-of-file is when the file ends. Most
> operating systems support a notion of a "file size", and the file ends
> when file-size bytes have been consumed.
>
> Why Microsoft decided to use ctr-z in text files is beyond me, it does
> not fulfil any useful function...

It came from CP/M, which believe it or not had *no* way to specify an exact
file length. File lengths were measured in sectors, not bytes. So there had
to be some way to tell where a text file ended, and CP/M used Ctrl+Z.

MS-DOS picked up this convention, although if memory serves it always had
exact file lengths even in version 1.0.

Nobody uses Ctrl+Z in Windows/DOS text files any more, although I think the
COPY command still respects it if you use the /A switch or concatenate
files.

-Mike





From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Thu Sep 25 12:55:13 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:55:13 -0700
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <vn67fhhom95896@corp.supernews.com>

Mark Jackson wrote:
> (This happens to be the *reverse* of what my intuition expects - it
> would seem more natural if the syntax meant "do this for loop to
> completion, else do this extra stuff," but this is the way it is and
> one must simply remember it.)

I'm with you there--the use of "else" here has seemed a bit confusing to me.

The use case that Alex just posted gave me another way to think about it:

    for item in allitems:
        if fraboozable(item):
            print "first fraboozable item is", item
            break
    else:
        print "Sorry, no item is fraboozable"

If I think of the else statement as being related to the if statement inside
the loop, then it makes some sense--the else statement is executed when the
if statement never comes up true. (It's twisted logic, I know, but at least
it helps me keep track of what "else" does here.)

-Mike





From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 15:17:24 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:17:24 +0200
Subject: Optionmenu.
References: <bj7j47$g5rpn$1@ID-108351.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bj8354$g2f$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Thor" <thor__00 at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bj7j47$g5rpn$1 at ID-108351.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I have the following function (with some things removed):
>
> def add_stock():
>     stockw=Tk()
>     stockw.title("New stock solution")
>     sofl=Frame(stockw)
>     sofl.pack()
>     u=StringVar()
>     u.set("M")
>     cw=OptionMenu(sofl,u,"M","m","u","v","w")
>     cw.grid(row=1,column=2)
>
> but the widget keeps not showing teh selected option. If I fo the same out
> of the function it works without problem (with stockw.mainloop()). What am
> I missing? Anybody can point me out to the solution/the right webpage?
> --

Works fine with Python 2.2 Tk8.3.
Though it's looks a little bit funny that you initialize Tk inside the
function and that you use a local variable u for your your interface...


Kindly
Michael P





From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Sat Sep 20 18:23:38 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:23:38 -0700
Subject: starship.python.net DNS problems
References: <bkiart$cdj$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vmpkrb6rcu0t1d@corp.supernews.com>

Aahz wrote:
> There seems to be some kind of problem with Starship's DNS.  Until it's
> fixed, please use the direct IP of 217.160.219.194

A handy way to fix this is to add this line to your /etc/hosts or
%windir%\system32\drivers\etc\hosts file:

217.160.219.194  starship.python.net

Of course, you'll need to update this if the IP address changes, but it's a
good temporary fix.

-Mike





From opo at opo.com  Tue Sep 30 11:35:53 2003
From: opo at opo.com (franck)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:35:53 +0200
Subject: can i implement virtual functions in python ?
References: <e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <opheb.1685$95.1359@newsr2.u-net.net>

my friend python coder, tell me all function are virtual in python , so...

"Prabu" <prabua at hotmail.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to python, so excuse me if i'm asking something dumb.
> Does python provide a mechanism to implement virtual functions?
> Can you please give a code snippet also...:)
> Thanx in advance
> -Prabu.





From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Sep  2 22:09:22 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:09:22 -0600
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
In-Reply-To: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com>
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200309022009.22533.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 07:32 am, ulysses wrote:
> Hi,all
>
> I use wxPython make a bittorrent client. I find wxPython very slow and
> use many many memory.
> When app start, it need 19MB memory. I only use common GUI components.
> Python is a really good
> programming language. But how to do a small,smart, efficency GUI in
> win32,it's a big question.

Another option is to use Venster, which is based on ctypes. It'll have a 
pretty small memory and disk footprint (relatively speaking). It's not as 
mature or high-level as wx though, but if you're more or less familiar with 
Win32 GUI programming it's pretty straightforward.

If the GUI is pretty simple (a few dialog boxes) then you could just build the 
dialogs in something like Visual Studio and store them in a resource DLL, and 
then use Win32 calls to display them. You could also build the dialogs on the 
fly using Win32 calls (ctypes or win32all, although win32all has some nice 
helper routines - look at win32ui.CreateDialogIndirect for more info).

-Dave




From BoteDesSchattens at web.de  Wed Sep 17 10:35:40 2003
From: BoteDesSchattens at web.de (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 14:35:40 GMT
Subject: audio module
References: <9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bk9rfm$qms74$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

Todd Stephens <Huzzah!@Huzzah.com> wrote in
news:9bP9b.71118$Mb2.2369961 at twister.tampabay.rr.com: 

> I am looking
> specifically for tools to manipulate ogg-vorbis and convert other
> formats (mp3, wav) to ogg.

Well. I think at least for converting into ogg, the Python bindings 
provided on http://www.vorbis.com/download_unix.psp should help (never 
tried myself).

Bye
Tobias



From cygwin-help at cygwin.com  Fri Sep  5 13:08:25 2003
From: cygwin-help at cygwin.com (cygwin-help at cygwin.com)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 17:08:25 -0000
Subject: ezmlm response
Message-ID: <1062781705.2842.ezmlm@cygwin.com>

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To: cygwin-uc.1062780137.kbieladcacinmagdhccn-python-list=python.org at cygwin.com
Subject: Re: confirm unsubscribe from cygwin at cygwin.com
In-Reply-To: <1062780137.21812.ezmlm at cygwin.com>
References: <1062780137.21812.ezmlm at cygwin.com>
X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.5  (beta9) "brussels sprouts" XEmacs Lucid
Reply-To: skip at pobox.com





From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Tue Sep  9 14:07:53 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (Manuel Bastioni)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:07:53 GMT
Subject: Get the date of last modification of a file
References: <rE27b.45940$R32.1458201@news2.tin.it> <3F5CBAB8.F8888E3@engcorp.com> <UNf7b.48792$R32.1584881@news2.tin.it> <3F5DBB20.26FE6D30@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <ZFo7b.53432$R32.1690832@news2.tin.it>

> The question was strange, since requiring a true builtin for
> this is pointless, so I interpreted the question as though
> you were a newbie who didn't use the term "built-in" to mean
> what it usually means in Python.  I figured you just wanted
> to use a module that came with standard Python instead of
> requiring a separate download.
>
> So since you've clarified that, I'll be interested to see the
> answer to Erik Max Francis' question, too. :-)


I want use only built-in module because
I'm writing a python scripts from Blender.
To have all standard libs, the Blender user
(often not developer) must install the full python
distribution, and after must set the python path
in Blender.
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7723

To semplify this, I want use only the
built-in function, directly in Blender interpreter.

You can see my script here:
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/makehuman.html
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/disp_en.html

Thanks,

       Manuel


PS for Gerhard:
>What a stupid thing to say.
This is only an automatic message from my antivirus.






From hans at zephyrfalcon.org  Mon Sep 29 16:47:46 2003
From: hans at zephyrfalcon.org (Hans Nowak)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:47:46 -0400
Subject: write to log file
In-Reply-To: <3F789981.5060508@zephyrfalcon.org>
References: <bla3fj$5ee$1@news.uni-kl.de> <3F789981.5060508@zephyrfalcon.org>
Message-ID: <3F789A72.1000309@zephyrfalcon.org>

I wrote:

>  >>> g = open('c:/temp/test.txt', 'a+r')

Then again, using 'a' or 'a+' should work too...

-- 
Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
http://zephyrfalcon.org/






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep 29 11:36:03 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 11:36:03 -0400
Subject: extension call backs and the GIL
References: <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <bl93hp$mgc$1@panix3.panix.com> <OWWCyJAWcCe$EwUM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bl9jh3$gc4$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <OWWCyJAWcCe$EwUM at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <bl93hp$mgc$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
>writes
>>In article <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
>>Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm trying to better my understanding of multithreading. I believe a
>>>thread that calls an extension must have the GIL. What happens if the
>>>extension then calls back into Python? Can a function or method somehow
>>>'belong' to a different thread? My understanding was that things should
>>>be OK provided the extension code doesn't mess with the GIL (which it
>>>doesn't).
>>
>>You need to reacquire the GIL prior to making the callback.
>
>So does calling an extension release the GIL? I believed the opposite
>for some reason.

Looks like Bernhard has put you on the right track, but just for the
record: calling an extension does not automatically release the GIL; you
need to explicitly call the Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS macro.  I was just
assuming that because you said "accelerator" you were already releasing
the GIL.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code."
--Bill Harlan



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Thu Sep  4 21:19:58 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 01:19:58 GMT
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
In-Reply-To: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
Message-ID: <2xR5b.354503$YN5.241285@sccrnsc01>

Martin Christensen wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Howdy!
> 
> Suppose I have a list A containing elements that I want to put into
> list B if they satisfy some property. The obvious way of doing it
> would be,
> 
> B = []
> for i in A:
>     if A.property():
>        B.append(i)
> 
> Now, list comprehensions, map() etc. can make a lot of list operations
> easier, but I haven't found a shorter, more elegant way of doing this.
> Have I missed something, or will I have to stick to my explicit loops?
> 
> Martin
> 

B = filter(lambda x: x.property(), A)

David




From rainerd at eldwood.com  Sat Sep 27 14:46:22 2003
From: rainerd at eldwood.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:46:22 GMT
Subject: Now that rexec is gone...
References: <XA8db.597231$o%2.276974@sccrnsc02> <Ihidb.130710$hE5.4447927@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <2Wkdb.599239$YN5.441191@sccrnsc01>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Actually, such a "butchered" Python interpreter might be a fun and
> useful project indeed.  You would have to add programmable limits on
> resource consumptions -- e.g., memory allocatable by the script[s],
> time (CPU or maybe elapsed) usable thereby, etc.  And you should
> rename everything, say to use Qy instead of Py, so that a normal and a
> butchered interpreter could easily be embedded in the same program.

That might be a useful project, but it also sounds like a lot of work.  I
don't think I'll be going that route.

As it turns out, I can solve my security problem in a different way
entirely: by confirming that any Python code I run is from a trusted source.
No need to run untrusted code at all.


-- 
Rainer Deyke - rainerd at eldwood.com - http://eldwood.com





From link0937 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 22 21:55:16 2003
From: link0937 at hotmail.com (Link)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:55:16 +0800
Subject: How can load dll in C?
Message-ID: <bko9ab$bsv$1@news.seed.net.tw>

Dear,

How is the wonderful PYTHON for me.
It attracts me with its additional variety.

I am developing in C program as well as first to use C++ with extending &
embedding PYTHON.
It seems not to easy.  What do I mean?

See that following steps what I am doing.

step 1. Success to make a example.dll with SWIG from MSVC6.0.
        After, copy this DLL to C:\Python23\Lib.

step 2. Getting into Pythinwin to run the following commands.

>>> import example
>>> c = example.new_Circle()
>>> print c
_a03f6e01_p_Circle
>>>

step 3. Making a C file with MSVC6.0 and running.

void main()
{
 //initialized the interpreter.
 Py_Initialize();

 //
   int r0 = PyRun_SimpleString("import example\n");
   int r1 = PyRun_SimpleString("c = example.new_Circle()\n");
   int r2 = PyRun_SimpleString("print c\n");

 //destory the interpreter
 Py_Finalize();
}


The results:
1. See the step2,
   To make a example.dll from MSV6.0 to be called by PYTHON.
   Of course, it's OK.

2. See the step3,
   while running the statement - 'PyRun_SimpleString("import example\n")'
 missing to load the DLL and always return the value r0 = -1,


My quesions are:
1. example.dll can be called on Pythonwin but fail to load by C program.
2. Shall I set the PYTHONPATH while loading the DLL in C program?
   If YES, How can I do?





From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 10 22:14:34 2003
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 19:14:34 -0700
Subject: Learning Python, 2'nd Edition, O'Reilly
Message-ID: <8e6e8e5d.0309101814.393a8ed0@posting.google.com>

Does anyone know when this is due to be released? I am assuming that
this version will cover Python 2.3, and be the first book to fully do
so.

Ron Stephens



From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 11:01:34 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:01:34 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bjcstg$plc$04$1@news.t-online.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:87vfs6unsx.fsf at pobox.com...
> "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

> Windows is an esoteric OS?

Counted by numbers, the widest spread OS is an endless loop, interrupted by
hardware timer interrupts. About 50 billion I should say, but can be much
more. There is one on your video card and in your hard disk and even inside
your Compact Flash (CF) card. Then come some real proprietary OS. And -
granted - there are also some Linux and Windows boxes running. This shifts
to more standardisation (VxWorks, QNX embedded Linux,...) as electronic
equipment becomes more intelligent (DVD Player e.g) A modern limousine
contains about 50 microcontrolles with independant operating systems.

> Still, you make an interesting point here: is it the case that more
> code is written for hard real-time systems than not?  That would
> certainly surprise me.  Where do you get your data?

I am still looking for something traceable.  My information is from some
diagrams in seminare hand-outs from end of the 90. So they probably come
from data of the early 90. They say there are twice as many commercial
programmers working in technical (embedded systems) than in administrative
programming. Since then there has been have a lot of web programming which
was non-existent 10 years ago, but we also have a lot of telecommunication.
>
> > May be they will be programmed in Python in 20 years, though I do not
see
> > it. You need a certified compiler, a fail proof and predictable garbage
> > collector, and a little bit more.
>
> Yes.  And?  We seem not to be communicating here...

That is my fault. You are proably thinking of the language as such. I was
thinking of its standard implementation as open system with hundreds of more
or less mature add-ons

[..]

> Sorry, I don't quite follow that.  How does that relate to the rest of
> the paragraph?
(There were some mixed threads here, I was ansering as well  to some Linux
argument....)

 [...]

> > > Python is an order of magnitude easier to learn than C++, but it
> > > brings really significant programmer-efficiency benefits.  As a
> > > result, the argument about training simply doesn't stand up: the costs
> > > are lower than the benefits even on a short timescale.
> >
> > I know this argument well and have repeated it myself in the days of
Pascal
> > and  Algol68. Few have listened.....

> Well, they'd be right not to listen if you argued it about Pascal.
> There's a real difference in productivity between Pascal and Python.
> Pascal doesn't even have built-in garbage collection, for heaven's
> sake, which places it much closer to C than to Python in this respect.

I said "in the time of Pascal and Algol 68". If you kindly would consult a
calender you will find out that had been 35 years ago. Pascal had been
designed to not need a garbage collector which was a great issue for Algol68
with its (explicit) heap concept. Some of the first C++ compilers 20 years
later were notorious for their never working GC. There are companies still
not using C++ for embedded aplication because they mistrust even modern
concepts.

>
> > Programmers are generally not trained in their company, they are hired
> > including their special language skills.
>
> You're begging the question: arguably, that is the mistake of those
> hiring.  Training (for Python, anyway) will frequently be cheaper than
> sticking to, say, C++.  Other skills are more important than
> pre-existing ability to use a language like Python (though that's
> certainly not irrelevant!).
>
> > [..]

> > > > This is an important  factor. However all investigations show that
> > > > programmer's productivity is an unmeasurable quantity.
> > >
> > > How would an empirical investigation show such a thing?
> >
> > Alex gave a hint to a German study. I think he was refering to:
> > http://www.ipd.uka.de/~prechelt/Biblio/jccpprtTR.pdf

> (That was probably the one I was thinking of in another paragraph in
> my reply) I don't see how such a study could show that "programmer's
> productivity is an unmeasurable quantity".  It's obvious that
> variations between individuals make differences due to languages hard
> to measure, but that doesn't make it impossible.

The study was meant (and shows) that using scripting languages for special
projects is advantegeous over using standard languages. It also shows
the"productivity" of the (wide range of ) programmers. I will have to look
into it again ....
... yes take page 22: Total times of programming: The JAVA programers needed
between 3 and 63 hours. This is nothing you can work with when it comes to
estimating the costs for your next project. On the other hand it shows that
there are some Python programmers who delivered their task much faster. So
what? Everyone knows that Python programmers are the better, faster, busier
species ;-)
This is not a general distrust for statistics (I studied mathematics) but
also my personal experience from 30 years of programming. I do not remember
who (Dijkstra?) once said: "When a programmer is good he is generally very
good, and when he is bad he is generally very bad". But all of them want to
earn their money in the software business.

Kindly
Michael P





From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  3 17:37:15 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:37:15 -0700
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <87n0dmj82w.fsf@flibuste.net> <877k4q6jj1.fsf@pobox.com> <87ekyxinsx.fsf@flibuste.net>
Message-ID: <bj5mmu$fj2v2$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| What is HTA ?

Wilk ....

HTA ... HTML Application

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/hta/reference/objects/hta.asp

Example containing a bit of VBScript
to access some common applications
under Windows ...

http://fastq.com/~sckitching/HTML/Start_Page.hta

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep 11 16:44:28 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:44:28 -0400
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjnh03$7d3$1@fred.mathworks.com> <4cjulvoapgvre33kr76k0d2f4l4l1rltge@4ax.com> <mv_7b.215$o71.11@news2.central.cox.net> <66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <A8Ccna05HMkwQ_2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote
in message news:66t0mv410it5ftvjokfpkov0v029trv6lp at 4ax.com...

> Actually I'm sick to death of the old 'your just trying to turn
Python
> into X' argument whenever I suggest that *maybe* Python might learn
a
> trick from another language. [etc]

This seems to be a predictible c.l.py response to proposals.  I got
similar accusations several years ago, which made me similarly sick,
when I proposed the addition of list.pop() (which Guido did, in more
generalized form, about a year later).

My main objection was/is that expressed by Michael Chermside today:
this would complexify a simplicity that I consider a good feature of
Python.  Reading Bengt Richter's lastest response, also today, I
realize that 'ref x' would have to have much the same effect of Lisp's
FEXPR defun keyword -- of automatically quoting rather than evaluating
args -- although on just one rather than all.  Perhaps you should be
accused of 'trying to Lispify Python' -- or perhaps not ;-).

Terry J. Reedy







From skip at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 10:30:59 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:30:59 -0500
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
In-Reply-To: <000b01c37824$c972de10$3a0ff10c@teaset>
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>
        <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
        <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>
        <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
        <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
        <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>
        <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>
        <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
        <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
        <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <000b01c37824$c972de10$3a0ff10c@teaset>
Message-ID: <16224.34595.360519.654147@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Al> MY children were taught to handle firearms safely beginning age 5.
    Al> Are yours?

No, we're more intelligent than that.  We have no guns in our house.

Why is this on c.l.py anyway?

Skip




From glingl at aon.at  Wed Sep 17 17:00:23 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:00:23 +0200
Subject: None, False, True
In-Reply-To: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F68CB67.5000409@aon.at>

M-a-S schrieb:

> Can anybody explain this:
> 
> Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>None = 3
> 
> <stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
> 

Interestingly this doesn't occur in IDLE:

Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
...
IDLE 1.0
 >>> None = 3
SyntaxError: assignment to None (<pyshell#0>, line 1)
 >>> print None
None

In a recent posting to this list I asked how to write-protect
names. This seems to be done here with the Name None.
But again: how is it done?

----
On the other side the existence and knowledge of the None-object
doesn't disappear completely in the plain Python interpreter:

 >>> None = 3
<stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
 >>> None
3
 >>> def f():
...     pass
...
 >>> print f()
None

But:

 >>> def g():
...     return None
...
 >>> g()
3

So you can use f to restore the value of None
(if you happened to forget to save it):

 >>> None = f()
<stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
 >>> None
 >>> print None
None




From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep  4 17:09:17 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:09:17 GMT
Subject: Comparing objects - is there a maximum object?
References: <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755@posting.google.com> <bj84rl$j2c$07$4@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <1SN5b.8786$tw6.4739@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Martin v. L?wis:
> The easiest way to produce a maximum object is
>
> class Max:
>    def __cmp__(self, other):
>      return 1

Shouldn't there also be a

    def __rcmp__(self, other):
        return -1
?

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From claird at lairds.com  Sun Sep 28 08:59:00 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:59:00 -0000
Subject: Access to database other web sites
References: <b125f336.0309260753.189000d8@posting.google.com> <87n0crbi8z.fsf@pobox.com> <vnbat5ma1ti9ae@corp.supernews.com> <87eky2574t.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <vndmokovguln15@corp.supernews.com>

In article <87eky2574t.fsf at pobox.com>, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> Complementing that difficulty is the poverty of inference I antici-
>> pate you'll be able to ground on what you find there; their commerce has a lot
>> more noise than signal, as I see it.
>
>What do you mean 'their commerce has more noise than signal'?
>
>
>> 'Twould be great, though, for you to
>> uncover something real.  Good luck.
>
>What I was wondering was where the sales data are going to come from.
			.
			.
			.
That's a typical part.  As I understand Jenny, she's going
to look at, say, eBay, and correlate "sales" with "price"
and "marketing" variables.  I apologize for being obscure
in abbreviating my judgment that that approach is likely to
yield "more noise than signal"; you're quite right for ask-
ing what I mean.  What I mean by that is that all the 
variables strike me as poorly replicable, in at least three
respects:
A.  eBay and other operators have an interest
    in releasing data only as they support
    their own success, and not for their
    analytic clarity.  Their incentives to
    categorize and aggregate variables can do
    no more than to leave the underlying
    relations unbiased, and that's plenty
    unlikely.
B.  I suspect the universes are so small as
    to provide ittle inferential power.  I'm
    most tentative about this one.  I know
    eBay is big business, but I suspect that
    looking at any other operation will yield
    only data from an exceptional period, be-
    cause the businesses are *not* sustainable.
C.  Measurements of "marketing effort" and 
    "promotion intensity" and other such quali-
    tative notions ... well, it sounds ambitious
    to me.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 21 16:38:08 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 21:38:08 +0100
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com> <aXmbb.137373$7G2.7005@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <877k416fnz.fsf@pobox.com>

"Cy Edmunds" <cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com> writes:

> "rhmd" <rh4170056 at juno.com> wrote in message
> news:616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d at posting.google.com...
[...]
> This one really has me squirming in my seat. C++ isn't a very good language
> for learning just a little bit of. Compared to Python I would say the

Agreed!  But Koenig & Moo's book (Accelerated C++) is the best I've
seen for doing that.

[...]
> I wouldn't choose your C++ compiler for Python compatibility. How good is

I don't think that's unreasonable, as long as you're *aware* of all
the other issues.  Ease of use with standard Python might come out as
most important.  And on Windows, Python work with MSVC is much less of
a pain for most things than gcc (aka mingw).

[...]
> The .NET compiler has a very good debugger and much better standard
> compliance than the old 6.0 compiler, but I haven't used  lot of different
> recent vintage C++ compilers.

What *is* the current position with MSVC 7 and Python?  Anyone?  I
still haven't heard a clear story.


John



From axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com  Thu Sep 18 13:02:01 2003
From: axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com (Axel Straschil)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:02:01 +0200
Subject: How to inheritance overwrite non virtual?
References: <slrnbmjhjr.gud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <bkchst$q0r$03$1@news.t-online.com> <slrnbmjjp4.her.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <bkckfc$om6$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbmjp88.ic0.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>

Hello!

> What you want seems to be
> class KObject:
>     def bestCaptionlong(self):
>         # class made explicit to guard against overriding
>         return KObject.bestCaption(self) 
> 

Yes, that behaves the way I excpected, thank's to you and the other
for helping me!

> Do-nothing accessor methods may be acceptable style in C++ but are
> superfluous in Python.

I'm afraid I'm still not thinking in python, I'll work on it ;-)

Lg, AXEL.



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 10:46:15 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:46:15 GMT
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <Xns93FE997643EDCduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <XWDbb.140605$R32.4430808@news2.tin.it>

Duncan Booth wrote:
   ...
>>> So maybe it's about time to change the sort() method to support a
>>> second argument
>>> 
>>> list.sort(compare=None, mapping=None)
>>> 
>>> that, if provided, would perform the DSU magic. Or was that already
>>> proposed and rejected?
>> 
>> I have not seen this proposed before, and I'm not very clear on what
>> the "compare" and "mapping" arguments are supposed to be in order to
>> let you specify any DSU.  Basically it seems you would need two
>> callables, "decorate" to be called with each item in the list (to
>> return for each item the decorated tuple) and "undecorate" to be
>> called with each decorated tuple after the sort (to return the item
>> for the result).  How do you turn that into "compare" and "mapping"?
>> 
>> 
> You don't need two callables because the sort function would be doing
> the decorating, so it knows also how to undecorate. I think the
> suggestion is that the mapping argument returns something that can be
> compared.
> 
> For example, here is a DSU function that does a not-in-place sort and
> takes a suitable mapping argument. Changing it to in-place sort is,
> of course, trivial.
> 
>>>> def DSU(aList, aMapping):
> newList = [ (aMapping(item), index, item) for (index, item)

Ah, I see -- the alleged "mapping" is in fact meant to be a
*CALLABLE*, NOT a mapping in the Python sense.  Yes, you could
get away with just one callable in this way, of course.  It
also seems to me that shoe-horning that second argument (in
practice mutually exclusive with the first one) to the sort
method, when there seem to be no real advantages to keeping
it a method, is not a great idea.  Rather, a new built-in
function appears to me to be best here -- something like:

def sort(iterable, decorate=None):
    if decorate is None:
        aux = [ (item, index, item) 
                 for index, item in enumerate(iterable) ]      
    else:
        aux = [ (decorate(item), index, item) 
                 for index, item in enumerate(iterable) ]
    aux.sort()
    return [ item for __, __, item in aux ]

so as to have no arbitrary constraints on the iterable being
a list, or the sort being necessarily in-place, when there
is no performance advantage in so doing -- and also serve the
frequent need of a non-in-place sort returning the sorted
list without any actual need for decoration.  E.g., I often
use the equivalent of:

    for key in sort(somesmalldict):
        print key, somesmalldict[key]

and it would be handy to have that little 'sort' function
built-in for all such uses.

The only downside I can see to this proposal is that Python
isn't really all that good at passing the callable decorate
argument -- one would end up with a lot of little ad hoc
functions, or lambdas, and neither is a great solution.  It's
the kind of situation where Smalltalk/Ruby shine by letting
an arbitrary block of code (albeit one only) be passed into 
any method (in Ruby, this DSU-sort would probably become a 
method of the Enumerable "module" [mix-in] -- a rather elegant
solution overall, "architecturally" nicer-looking than Python's,
although "pragmatically" we're probably abot even).


Alex




From job at webde-ag.de  Wed Sep 17 08:40:52 2003
From: job at webde-ag.de (Joerg Beyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:40:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: script to visualize python profiling data with kcachegrind
Message-ID: <bk9kok$7nh$2@news.web.de>

Dear List Reader,

with the kind help of Josef Weidendorfer, I wrote a script
to transform the profiling data of the pstats.Stats class
to a format that the program kcachegrind could read 
and visualize.

kcachegrind is free software by Josef Weidendorfer,
see http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net . It was developed
with the very nice valgrind (see http://developer.kde.org/~sewardj/ ),
which is (among other things a C/C++ profiling tool).
kcachegrind is the best visualisation of gcc compiled
profiling code I have seen yet.

With this, one could profile it's python python code and
generate the pstats.Stats results, e.g. like that:
-------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python
# _*_ coding: latin1 _*_

import hotshot

def busy(x):
    for i in range(x):
        pass

def h():
    busy(10)
    f()

def f():
    busy(250)

def run():
    f()
    h()

filename = "pythongrind.prof"
prof = hotshot.Profile(filename, lineevents=1)
prof.runcall(run)
prof.close()
-------------------------------------------

When you run this tiny python code, you get the profiling results
in "pythongrind.prof". Now you can transform them with hotshot2cachegrind
(my script, see below) like this:

hotshot2cachegrind -o cachegrind.out.42 pythongrind.prof

this will produce the file cachegrind.out.42, the input to kcachegrind.
The filename _has_ to be in the format "cachegrind.out."+<number>.

now start kcachegrind with this data file as input:
kcachegrind cachegrind.out.42

Now a kcachegrind window should open, with the profiling
results, like a calltree and a list of costs (how expensive
are the functions). For a description of how to interpret
this data, please take a look at the kcachegrind documentation,
but most of it is very easy and intuitive.

The costs are given in "Ticks", which is what hotshot
tells me as costs (tdelta of the logread). 

I am not sure what is the unit of this, could anybody 
tell me? There may be small mistakes, since
I am e.g. not sure where the costs of a call should go:
to the calling or the called function. So, python experts
are needed to justify these details.

Besides this, I was able to find and improve the hot spots
in some python sources without big efforts. At least the 
relative numbers seem right.

The script hotshot2cachegrind is in it's early stages, I plan
to extend it to display the source line and the associated
costs, just like kcachegrind could do with assembler lines.
I believe in "release early, release often", so please take
a look at it, profile some of you code an tell me, if the
results are resonable.

Josef and I plan to make the current version of the
hotshot2cachegrind script available from 
http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net/

Until that, I append the python code to this posting.

I am not aware of other visualisations of python profiling
results, so links are welcome.

    Comments are welcome.
    Joerg

below is hotshot2cachegrind:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python
# _*_ coding: latin1 _*_

#
# Copyright (c) 2003 by WEB.DE, Karlsruhe
# Autor: J?rg Beyer <job at webde-ag.de>
#
# hotshot2cachegrind is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public
# License as published by the Free Software Foundation, version 2.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU
# General Public License for more details.

# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; see the file COPYING.  If not, write to
# the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330,
# Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.
#
#
# This script transforms the pstat output of the hotshot
# python profiler into the input of kcachegrind. 
#
# example usage:
# modify you python script to run this code:
#
# import hotshot
# filename = "pythongrind.prof"
# prof = hotshot.Profile(filename, lineevents=1)
# prof.runcall(run) # assuming that "run" should be called.
# prof.close()
#
# it will run the "run"-method under profiling and write
# the results in a file, called "pythongrind.prof".
#
# then call this script:
# hotshot2cachegrind -o <output> <input>
# or here:
# hotshot2cachegrind cachegrind.out.0 pythongrind.prof
#
# then call kcachegrind:
# kcachegrind cachegrind.out.0
#
#

import os, sys
from hotshot import stats,log
import os.path 


what2text = { 
    log.WHAT_ADD_INFO    : "ADD_INFO", 
    log.WHAT_DEFINE_FUNC : "DEFINE_FUNC", 
    log.WHAT_DEFINE_FILE : "DEFINE_FILE", 
    log.WHAT_LINENO      : "LINENO", 
    log.WHAT_EXIT        : "EXIT", 
    log.WHAT_ENTER       : "ENTER"}

# a pseudo caller on the caller stack. This represents
# the Python interpreter that executes the given python 
# code.
root_caller = ("PythonInterpreter",0,"execute")

class Stack:
    """A tiny Stack implementation, based on python lists"""
    def __init__(self):
       self.stack = []
    def push(self, elem):
        """put something on the stack"""
        self.stack = [elem] + self.stack

    def pop(self):
        """get the head element of the stack and remove it from teh stack"""
        head = self.stack[0]
        self.stack = self.stack[1:]
        return head

    def top(self):
        """get the head element of the stack, stack is unchanged."""
        head = self.stack[0]
        return head
    def size(self):
        """ return how many elements the stack has"""
        return len(self.stack)

def do_calls(output, current_function, current_source_file, costs):
    """print, what kcachegrind needs for a function call"""
    output.write("cfn=%s\n" % current_function)
    output.write("calls=1\n0 %d\n" % costs)
    output.write("fn=%s\n" % current_function)

def return_from_call(caller_stack, call_dict, current_cost):
    """return from a function call
       remove the function from the caller stack,
       add the costs to the calling function.
    """
    called, cost_of_left_funct = caller_stack.pop()
    caller, caller_cost = caller_stack.pop()
    #print "pop: caller: %s size: %d" % (caller, caller_stack.size())

    per_file_dict = call_dict.get(caller[0], {})
    per_caller_dict = per_file_dict.get(caller[2], {})
    call_cost, count = per_caller_dict.get(called, (0, 0))
    cost_of_left_funct += current_cost


    per_caller_dict[called] = (call_cost+cost_of_left_funct, count + 1)
    per_file_dict[caller[2]] = per_caller_dict
    call_dict[caller[0]] = per_file_dict
    #print "push caller %s, size: %d : %s" % (caller, caller_stack.size(), (caller,caller_cost + cost_of_left_funct))
    caller_stack.push((caller,caller_cost + cost_of_left_funct))

def convertProfFiles(output, inputfilenames):
    """convert all the given input files into one kcachegrind 
       input file.
    """
    call_dict = {}
    cost_per_line = {}
    cost_per_function = {}
    caller_stack = Stack()
    caller_stack.push((root_caller, 0))

    total_cost = 0
    i = 0
    number_of_files = len(inputfilenames)
    for inputfilename in inputfilenames:
        i += 1
        sys.stdout.write("lese File %d von %d, costs: %s    \r" % (i, number_of_files, total_cost))
        sys.stdout.flush()
        cost = convertProfFile(inputfilename, caller_stack, call_dict, cost_per_line, cost_per_function)
        total_cost += cost
    
    print
    print "total_cost:",total_cost
    dumpResults(output, call_dict, total_cost, cost_per_line, cost_per_function)

def convertProfFile(inputfilename, caller_stack, call_dict, cost_per_line, cost_per_function):
    """convert a single input file into one kcachegrind
       data.
    """

    item_counter = 0
    total_cost = 0
    try:
        logreader = log.LogReader(inputfilename)
        current_cost = 0
        last_file = None
        last_func = None
        for item in logreader:
            item_counter += 1
            what, pos ,tdelta = item
            (file, lineno, func)  = pos
            #line = "%s %s %d %s %d" % (what2text[what], file, lineno, func, tdelta)
            #print line
            #if what == log.WHAT_LINENO:
            if what == log.WHAT_ENTER:
                caller_stack.push((pos, tdelta))
            elif what == log.WHAT_EXIT:
                return_from_call(caller_stack, call_dict, tdelta)
            else:
                # add the current cost to the current function
                p, c = caller_stack.pop()
                c += tdelta
                caller_stack.push((p,c))

            cost = cost_per_line.get(pos, 0)
            #print "buche tdelta: %d auf pos: %s -> %d" % (tdelta, pos, cost + tdelta)
            cost_per_line[pos] = cost + tdelta
            total_cost += tdelta

        # I have no idea, why sometimes the stack is not empty - we
        # have to rewind the stack to get 100% for the root_caller
        while caller_stack.size() > 1:
            return_from_call(caller_stack, call_dict, 0)

    except IOError:
        print "could not open inputfile '%s', ignore this." % inputfilename
    except EOFError, m:
        print "item_counter: %d %s" % (item_counter, m)
    return total_cost

def pretty_name(file, function):
    #pfile = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(file)) [0]
    return "%s [%s]" % (function, file)
    #return "%s_%s" % (pfile, function)

def write_fn(output, file, function):
    output.write("fn=%s\n" % pretty_name(file, function))

def write_fl(output, file, function):
    output.write("fl=%s\n" % pretty_name(file, function))

def write_cfn(output, file, function):
    output.write("cfn=%s\n" % pretty_name(file, function))

def dumpResults(output, call_dict, total_cost, cost_per_line, cost_per_function):
    """write the collected results in the format kcachegrind
       could read.
    """
    # the intro
    output.write("events: Tick\n")
    output.write("summary: %d\n" % total_cost)
    output.write("cmd: your python script\n")
    output.write("\n")
    last_func = None
    last_file = None
    # now the costs per line
    for pos in cost_per_line.keys():
        output.write("ob=%s\n" % pos[0])
        write_fn(output, pos[0], pos[2])
        # cost line
        output.write("%d %d\n" % (pos[1], cost_per_line[pos]))
    output.write("\n\n")
    # now the function calls. For each caller all the called
    # functions and their costs are written.
    for file in call_dict.keys():
        per_file_dict = call_dict[file]
        output.write("ob=%s\n" % file)
        #print "file %s -> %s" % (file, per_file_dict)
        for caller in per_file_dict.keys():
            write_fn(output, file ,caller)
            write_fl(output, file ,caller)
            per_caller_dict = per_file_dict[caller]
            #print "caller %s -> %s" % (caller, per_caller_dict)
            for called in per_caller_dict.keys():
                output.write("cob=%s\n\ncfl=%s\n" % (called[0], called[0]))
                write_cfn(output, called[0], called[2])
                cost, count = per_caller_dict[called]
                # detect recursion
                if file == called[0] and caller == called[2]:
                    output.write("r");
                output.write("calls=%d\n%d %d\n" % (count, called[1], cost))
                #output.write("calls=%d\n%d %d\n" % (count, called[1], cost))

def run_without_optik():
    """parse the options without optik, use sys.argv"""
    if  len(sys.argv) < 4 or sys.argv[1] != "-o" :
        print "usage: hotshot2cachegrind -o outputfile in1 [in2 [in3 [...]]]"
        return
    outputfilename = sys.argv[2]
    try:
        output = file(outputfilename, "w")
        args = sys.argv[3:]
        convertProfFiles(output, args)
        output.close()
    except IOError:
        print "could not open '%s' for writing." % outputfilename

def run_with_optik():
    """parse the options with optik"""
    parser = OptionParser()
    parser.add_option("-o", "--output",
      action="store", type="string", dest="outputfilename",
      help="write output into FILE")
    output = sys.stdout
    close_output = 0
    (options, args) = parser.parse_args()
    try:
        if options.outputfilename and options.outputfilename != "-":
            output = file(options.outputfilename, "w")
            close_output = 1
    except IOError:
        print "could not open '%s' for writing." % options.outputfilename
    if output:
        convertProfFiles(output, args)
        if close_output:
            output.close()


# check if optik is available.
try:
    from optik import OptionParser
    run = run_with_optik
except ImportError:
    run = run_without_optik

if __name__ == "__main__":
    try:
        run()
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        pass

-- 
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability.
                         Edsger W. Dijkstra



From missive at frontiernet.net  Wed Sep 24 21:13:02 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:13:02 GMT
Subject: What is the meaning of the astarisk in Python
References: <3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnbn4gfl.1mn0.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk>, John Dean wrote:
> Hi
> Below is a line taken from Andy Dustman's MySQLdb module:
> def Connect(*args, **kwargs):
> 
> I would be grateful if somebody explain the meaning of the astarisks, since
> I was under the impression that pointers are not used in Python and the
> above look very must like pointers to me
> 


http://python.org/doc/current/tut/node6.html#SECTION006600000000000000000
http://python.org/doc/current/tut/node6.html#SECTION006720000000000000000
http://python.org/doc/current/tut/node6.html#SECTION006730000000000000000




From whiteywidow at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  6 21:37:14 2003
From: whiteywidow at yahoo.com (rt lange)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 01:37:14 GMT
Subject: Redesign of Python site
Message-ID: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17>

came across this page searching feedster.
dont know whether this is the official resdesign or just a proposal;
but the mockups look very nice.

http://www.pollenation.net/journal/index.php?p=37&c=1

main page mockup:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main.html

interior page:
http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior.html



From plb at iotk.com  Thu Sep 18 14:00:30 2003
From: plb at iotk.com (Peter L. Buschman)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 11:00:30 -0700
Subject: Join equivalent for tuples of non-strings?
Message-ID: <1a884f4a.0309181000.749eb8a1@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to think in Python, but am stumped here...

What is the equivalent for the following if you are dealing with a tuple
of non-strings?

>>> import string
>>> foo = ( '1', '2', '3' )
>>> string.join( foo, '.' )
'1.2.3'

With a tuple of integers, this fails with a traceback as below:

>>> bar = ( 1, 2, 3 )
>>> string.join( bar, '.' )

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    string.join( bar, '.' )
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\string.py", line 135, in join
    return sep.join(words)
TypeError: sequence item 0: expected string, int found
>>> 

--PLB



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Sep  7 16:21:26 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 16:21:26 -0400
Subject: Testing
References: <pan.2003.09.07.18.08.26.970255@onetel.com>
Message-ID: <bOOdncAthYHaDsaiU-KYvA@comcast.com>

"Andy" <tireseas at onetel.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.07.18.08.26.970255 at onetel.com...
> This is not a post it is a test - please ignore

Test posts should generally go to misc.test, which exists just for
this purpose.





From mack at incise.org  Thu Sep  4 01:11:11 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 00:11:11 -0500
Subject: strings
In-Reply-To: <y2z5b.81796$bo1.42513@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <y2z5b.81796$bo1.42513@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20030904051111.GI16821@incise.org>

On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 04:18:38AM +0000, Scribe wrote:
> if it is a decimal I want to return the number without the commer any 
> others return 0.

"commer"?

str.isdigit() should do most of it for you.

def foo(mystr):
  if mystr.isdigit():
    return "the number without the commer (??) :)"
  else:
    return 0

-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
Penguin Trivia #46:
	Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
		-- Chicago Reader 10/15/82




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Sep  8 19:07:23 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 23:07:23 GMT
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com> <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com> <mailman.1063053974.13083.python-list@python.org> <3F5CF116.2F755AA6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bjj23b$d0p$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:13:58 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Skip Montanaro wrote:
>> 
>>     Dave> I don't know of any problem with tinyurls - *any* server can
>>     Dave> provide a "bad" redirect; as with any URL whether or not you
>>     Dave> follow it depends on the context and on how much you trust the
>>     Dave> sender.
>> 
>> The only other reasons I could think of to object to tiny urls are:
>> 
>> * Perhaps the tinyurl folks are not trustworthy (are they keeping track of
>>   your browsing habits and selling that info?).  That seems unlikely, since
>>   they don't appear to be storing cookies in my browser.
>> 
>> * The tinyurl website can become a bottleneck, preventing people from
>>   getting where they want to go.  The tinyurl.com website seems to be fairly
>>   unreachable for me at the moment, though this is the first time I've seen
>>   this, and it appears to be a problem more with Northwestern's connection
>>   to the net than tinyurl.com's.
>> 
>> * There's no guarantee tiny urls will remain unique or even available for
>>   long periods of time.  Their current practice of using four lower-case
>>   letters suggests they have space for about 450,000 unique URLs before
>>   extending to a fifth letter.
>
>* You can't tell ahead of time what site you are going to be redirected to.
>  As a result, you lose complete freedom to choose whether or not you should
>  follow the link.  (Note for the imprecise: I didn't say you completely lose
>  freedom, I said you lose complete freedom.)
>
I guess it wouldn't be too hard to set up a cgi url on python.org, if desired,
to do two-step redirection -- i.e., you'd pass it a small string and it would look
up the URL and generate a minimal html page with a plain url link in it, e.g.,

<html><head><title>www.python.org coded url service</title></title></head><body>
   <a href="http://the.real.target.com">http://the.real.target.com</a>
</body></html>

And then you could choose whether to click, but you only have to type e.g.,

  http://codedurl.python.org?smallstring

or such.

And you could accept URLs via a form and generate and store the short codes. Some filtering
would probably be advisable.

As far as tinyurl itself, I wonder if one couldn't get the real url (without committing to go
there) by doing the http protocol step by step with telnetlib.

I'm not feeling motivated enough to do it at the moment ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Wed Sep 17 22:03:20 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:03:20 -0500
Subject: database
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624D1F@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Alberto Vera [mailto:avera at coes.org.pe] 
>
> Hello:
>
> Do you have any example about how access to a database 
> using ODBC or native driver?

using the win32all odbc module

>>> import odbc
>>> cn = odbc.odbc('AcctDB')
>>> c = cn.cursor()
>>> c.execute('select * from AcctMetaInfo order by snapshotdate')
0
>>> row = c.fetchone()[:10] # first ten columns
>>> row
(141410449310712784L, 7051, <DbiDate object at 0x0089E070>, 2147483646,
0, 2147483646, '?1', 2147483646, '?1', <DbiRaw object at 0x0089E080>)
>>> str(row[2])
'Mon Apr 15 11:14:04 2002'
>>> str(row[-1])
'\t\x13\x14\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
>>>


using the adodbapi module (http://sourceforge.net/projects/adodbapi):

>>> import adodbapi
>>> cn = adodbapi.connect('AcctDB')
>>> c = cn.cursor()
>>> c.execute('select * from AcctMetaInfo order by snapshotdate')
>>> row = c.fetchone()[:10]
>>> row
(141410449310712779L, 7051, datetime.datetime(2002, 4, 15, 11, 14, 4),
2147483646, 0, 2147483646, u'?1', 2147483646, u'?1', <read-write buffer
ptr 0x00A53C94, size 11 at 0x00A53C78>)
>>> row[2]
datetime.datetime(2002, 4, 15, 11, 14, 4)
>>> str(row[-1])
'\t\x13\x14\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'

using query analyzer:

AccountID            ...ID       SnapshotDate            ...
-------------------- ----------- ------------------------
141410449310712779   7051        2002-04-15 11:14:04.000 ...

The account id is a bigint, and as you can see the odbc module loses
precision because it is first converted to a float internally. 

Both modules convert currency/money data to float:

>>> c.execute('select Amount from FinancialInfo where acountid = 1234')
>>> c.fetchone()
(80.439999999999998,)
>>>

which is of course completely horrible.

With the adodbapi module you can change the default behavior however:

----------------------
import adodbapi

class Money(long):
  def __new__(self, value):
    return long.__new__(Money, value)

  def __repr__(self):
    d, c = divmod(self, 10000)
    return '$%s.%s' % (d,c)
		
def cvt_money((hi,lo)):
  # not extensively tested :-)
  return Money((hi<<32) + (lo < 0 and (2**32+lo) or lo))
		
adodbapi.variantConversions[adodbapi.adCurrency] = cvt_money

cn = adodbapi.connect('AcctDb')
c = cn.cursor()

c.execute('select Amount from FinancialInfo where where acountid =
1234')
print c.fetchone()
----------------------

the output:

($80.4400,)

which is much better :-)

I don't have mxODBC, nor any native drivers to test with (although I'd
be interested in the results if anyone else does..)

taking-a-break-from-mdx'ly y'rs,
-- bjorn




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 01:14:54 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:14:54 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <m2eky8dtny.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <GhQbb.196$eB.92@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <gdlvmvcq85ch6vpn54iorqa8u10et78949@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:49:42 GMT, "M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>> > Some more looping thoughts - this time on integer for loops...
>
>I guess this should be a matter of optimization. Why don't the Python
>compiler recognize 'for <var> in [x]range(<from>,<till>):'? It should be
>pretty easy. Microsoft does marvels optimizing loops in C. Why an open
>source project like Python can't do it?

For all I know it does. Complaints about the 'xrange' notation are
normally about the syntax, not the efficiency. For instance, take this
quote from Guidos parade of PEPs...

"""
PEP 284 - Integer for-loops - Eppstein, Ewing
Yet another way to address the fact that some people find 

    for i in range(10):

too ugly.
"""

The word is "ugly", not "slow".


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep 16 15:43:46 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:43:46 -0700
Subject: Print always puts newline (or adds a space)
References: <3d9e1e6e689e3a662f59990c4b401713@news.teranews.com> <3F64DEF7.F98CFAB8@alcyone.com> <bk77de$pt7i4$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F6767F2.90C426B8@alcyone.com>

Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:

> Is it then also possible to "jump back" a few chars to, e.g., have a
> progress... (damn, I forgot that word) however, that shows the
> percentage
> of progress? Like print "25%" and then jump back three chars and write
> "26%"?

That's typically done with printing BS characters to back up one space
('\b') or CR characters to return the carriage to the beginning of the
line ('\r').  Note that strictly speaking these may not have the desired
effect, although in most environments they will.

> And then, on my Linux machine, such things just don't happen at all.
> E.g.
> in a loop like...
> 
> for i in range(1000):
>         j = pow(2,i)
>         if j%100: print "#",
> 
> ...I will get nothing for a long time and then ten "#" chars at one
> time.
> Is there a solution for that?

You're encounting buffering; use sys.stdout.write directly and call
sys.stdout.flush() after you've printed some partial output.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Custom reconciles us to everything.
\__/  Edmund Burke



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Sep 24 14:13:18 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:13:18 -0400
Subject: __init__ return value
References: <mailman.1064424817.693.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vn3nm0dlfrbd0@news.supernews.com>

No. __init__(self) returns None. In fact, I'm not certain whether
it even checks for the value of the return. __init__()'s function is
to initialize the instance which is it's first parameter, you cannot
change the instance it is working on.

If you need to provide your own instance object, use __new__().

John Roth


"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064424817.693.python-list at python.org...
Studying the Tim Peter's FixedPoint code, found this:

# can we coerce to a float?
yes = 1
try:
asfloat = float(value)
except:
yes = 0
if yes:
self.__init__(asfloat, p)
return

This code is part of the __init__ method of the class.

The question is about the last two lines: When you call self.__init__(...),
doesn't it return a value that you should return too?

Thanks for all.


Facundo Batista
Gesti?n de Red
fbatista at unifon.com.ar
(54 11) 5130-4643
Cel: 15 5132 0132







From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 12 05:58:49 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:58:49 +0100
Subject: Parsing XML streams
References: <659f82ff.0309111530.c17e4a6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6198D9.F92A70BE@hotmail.com>

Peter Scott wrote:
> I'm writing another program that should parse that sort of XML on its
> stdin, printing out a more user-friendly representation. For this, I
> need to parse the XML as it comes in, not all at once.

Peter,

Check out the IncrementalParser class in the library module

Lib/xml/sax/xmlreader.py

This extension of the standard XMLReader class acts just like a SAX
parser, in that it delivers SAX2 events to your ContentHandler as it
processes the tokens from the source XML document.

But rather than the parser itself controlling when and how it gets its
input, you control that through the use of the .feed() method. So you
can "drip feed" the parser with input if you wish.

Not all XML parsers support an IncrementalParser interface. In order
for an XML parser to support incremental parsing, it must have been
coded specifically to do so. Fortunately, the expat wrapper supplied
with the base distribution of python does support incremental parsing.

Which I think should solve your problem quite nicely. When you start
up your process for the first time, feed() the IncrementalParser a
document element (all XML document must have one and only one document
element). Then simply feed the output of your logging stream directly
to the IncrementalParser, as and when you receive it.

You should not have any problems with XML tokens being split over two
different .feed() calls either. For example, this should work just
fine

ip = IncrementalParser()
ip.feed('<docu')
ip.feed('ment')
ip.feed('/>')

When your logging stream is closing, simply feed a close tag for your
document element to your IncrementalParser, and everything will clean
up nicely.

Here is some sample code:

#-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
import xml.sax
from xml.sax.handler import ContentHandler

logentry = """
<channel name='#sandbox'>
    <message user='PeterScott'>Hello, my bot</message>
    <message user='PeterScott'>This is a message</message>
    <nickchange>
        <oldnick>PeterScott</oldnick>
        <newnick>PeterSc</newnick>
    </nickchange>
</channel>
"""

incr_parser = xml.sax.make_parser('xml.sax.expatreader')
incr_parser.setContentHandler(ContentHandler())
incr_parser.feed('<mylogstream>')
incr_parser.feed(logentry)
incr_parser.feed('</mylogstream>')
#-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Sep 21 11:02:30 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:02:30 -0400
Subject: python script as an emergency mailbox cleaner
In-Reply-To: <TNgbb.48677$Aq2.3643@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELNGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Phil Weldon]
> Inboxer for Outlook is a plugin written with Python that will analyze
> collections of what you consider legitimate e-mail and and what you
> consider illegitimate e-mail.

The classification engine in Inboxer comes from the free spambayes project:

    http://www.spambayes.org/

Inboxer is a commercial product (produced by some old friends of mine from
Dragon Systems, but I have no other connection to it), which can afford to
pay people to research and add ease-of-use features.  The spambayes project
is behind on that count, but for the technically-minded should perform
equally well.

> I downloaded it and ran it against a collection of 1500 messages
> generated by the Worm.Automat.AHB and 265 the latest legitimate
> e-mails I've received.

The spambayes engine works best when trained on approximately equal numbers
of ham and spam.  You should actually get better results if you train on far
*fewer* than 1500 of a particular species of spam.  In my home classifier, I
eee I've trained on 6 slightly different instances of Worm.Automat spew, and
that's all.  All the rest I've gotten were classed as spam (but I have my
spam cutoff set to 80, and IIRC Inboxer defaults that to 90).

> After the analysis, Inboxer has detected about 250 Worm.Automat.AHB
> generated messages with no false negatives and no false positives
> (granted there were only three new legitimate e-mails.

If you start getting some, the paradoxical best thing to do would, again, be
to train on *fewer* worm spew messages.





From peterm at resmed.com.au  Tue Sep 30 17:42:53 2003
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:42:53 +1000
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list@python.org> <EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305@fed1read04> <ToKdb.9$t44.805@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <jN7eb.4479$hp5.4259@fed1read04> <83ekxyii45.fsf@musca.logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <yNmeb.274$815.11524@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Sorry mate, but I am in the same directory of the Python file I am trying to
run through pylint and I get the same message originally posted by Mark
Hahn.

So something is wrong - perhaps you should verify that what is on the
web-site is actually working as you expect?

Here is the full error message from one of my runs:

roebourne#1(~/swimming)$ python
c:/Python22/Lib/site-packages/logilab/pylint/lint.py roll.py
No config file found, using default configuration
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:/Python22/Lib/site-packages/logilab/pylint/lint.py", line 529, in
?
    Run(*sys.argv[1:])
  File "c:/Python22/Lib/site-packages/logilab/pylint/lint.py", line 496, in
__init__
    modname = '.'.join(modpath_from_file(modname))
  File "c:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\logilab\common\modutils.py", line 70,
in modpath_from_file
    raise Exception('Unable to find module for %s in %s' % (
Exception: Unable to find module for c:\usr\local\swimming\roll in
c:\usr\local\swimming,
c:/Python22/Lib/site-packages/logilab/pylint,
c:\Python22,
c:\Python22\DLLs,
c:\Python22\Lib,
c:\Python22\Lib\lib-tk,
c:\usr\local\swimming,
c:\Python22\lib\site-packages,
c:\usr\local\share\emacs\site-lisp\pymacs
[exited with 1]

Note that I am running Python 2.2.2.

Peter

"Sylvain "Th?nault"" <sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr> wrote in message
news:83ekxyii45.fsf at musca.logilab.fr...
> "Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> writes:
>
> > They not only feel no need to document, they also feel no need to follow
ANN
> > threads they start.
>
> Sorry, I don't have the time to follow c.l.py at the moment and that's
> just today that I've been informed about this thread.
>
> So, regarding the command line, pylint expects the name of a package
> or module as argument. As a convenience, you can give to it a file
> name if it's possible to guess a module name from the file's
> path, using the python path. Some examples :
>
> "pylint mymodule.py" should always works since the current working
> directory is automatically added on top  of the python path
>
> "pylint directory/mymodule.py" will work if "directory" is a python
> package (i.e. has an __init__.py file) or if "directory" is in the
> python path.
>
> "pylint /whatever/directory/mymodule.py" will work if either:
>   - "/whatever/directory" is in the python path
>   - your cwd is "/whatever/directory"
>   - "directory" is a python package and "/whatever" is in the python path
>   - "directory" is a python package and your cwd is "/whatever"
>   and so on...
>
>
> Regarding the lack of documentation, we're pretty busy at this time at
> logilab, but I hope we'll have the time to write some until the next
> release... Anyway, any contribution would be welcome ;)
>
>
> Hope that helps,
> regards
> --
> Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).
>
> http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Sep 21 17:33:42 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:33:42 +0200
Subject: how to find a user in a xml document
In-Reply-To: <NSnbb.16124$dp6.371720@weber.videotron.net>
References: <NSnbb.16124$dp6.371720@weber.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <3f6e1936$0$58713$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Martin wrote:
> hi, I need to find a way to check in a XML document if a certain user exist,
> if not i want to add it in the document.
> I am able to add it in the xml doc, but I cant make sure he doesnt exist
> thanks
> Martin

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#beprecise

--Irmen




From s.keim at laposte.net  Fri Sep 26 03:35:29 2003
From: s.keim at laposte.net (sebastien)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 00:35:29 -0700
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <7da8d8f8.0309252335.2add37ff@posting.google.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message news:<wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>...

> If you have a magic method, __riter__, then the corresponding
> function needs to be a builtin.  They go hand in hand.  The
> core parts of the language need to be usable without having
> to know about itertools.

I don't think so:
We already have this situation for the the copy module:
copy.copy() use the __copy__ magic method and copy.deepcopy() use
__deepcopy__
I've never heard about problems with this behaviour.

In fact it's not the __riter__ magic method which will use riter()
function but the opposite, so an object which define __riter__ doesn't
need to now anything about riter().



From alleon at club-internet.fr  Fri Sep  5 02:37:01 2003
From: alleon at club-internet.fr (Sophie Alléon)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:37:01 +0200
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
Message-ID: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Hi,

CONTEXT
I do numerical simulation for which I have to process mesh. A mesh is made
of
triangle which are made of points.
I want from this information to create edges and build triangle from edges
rather
than from points.

PROBLEM
An edge is shared by possibly more than one triangle.

ALGORITHM

have a triangle class  (made of 3 edges)
have an edge   class   (made of 2 points and embeding a triangle list (those
connected to the edge)

for each triangle construct its edges but I have to check if the edge
already exists

for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
string while I want it
to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?

Have you a better idea ?

Thanks

Guillaume













From mitchchapman at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 13 12:18:42 2003
From: mitchchapman at earthlink.net (Mitch Chapman)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:18:42 -0600
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <16227.13073.611762.21526@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <F12BA8A8-E605-11D7-A7C2-000393D443CE@earthlink.net>

On Saturday, September 13, 2003, at 09:09  AM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Mitch> Unlike Andrew I don't think the lack of maintenance for  
> 1.4's
>     Mitch> free threading packages is due to any perception that  
> threading
>     Mitch> performance is unimportant.  It seems more likely that the
>     Mitch> packages were not updated because they proved not to solve  
> the
>     Mitch> performance problems, and that no alternatives have emerged
>     Mitch> because the problem is hard to solve.
>
> One reason (maybe the primary reason) it never went further than a  
> patch to
> 1.4 was that it was slower in the (common) single-threaded case.

For more on the patch, see the FAQ:
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/library.html#can-t-we-get-rid-of-the- 
global-interpreter-lock

I wish I'd read this entry before my latest reply to Andrew Kuchling.
It explains why somebody (GvR, according to the old FAQ) believes
free-threading would decrease the suitability of Python for existing
users.

> You can read the few messages in
> python-dev in the archive for September:
>
>      
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-September/thread.html
>
> Search for "thread safe".

Thanks for publishing the pointers.  I didn't consider that others
might be interested in the original thread.

--
Mitch





From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Sep 18 09:16:40 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:16:40 +0100
Subject: convert ints in a range to strings
References: <bkap6g$4o1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <m2llsn55z3.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net> <3F6900D2.7080806@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bkcb0b$a5d$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

"hokiegal99" <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F6900D2.7080806 at hotmail.com...
> Thanks Heather... this did it:
>
> outputFile = file('ips.txt', 'w')
> r = range(256)
> for r in range(256):
>     f = '192.168.1.%s\n' % r #Change this line to macth your network.
>     outputFile.write(f)
> outputFile.close()
>

[snip]

The second line of this code does nothing useful.  My feeling is that as r
is an integer you should really use %d, rather than %s.

Duncan





From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Sep  4 09:31:10 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:31:10 GMT
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com> <vqOdnRuMAaBofMiiRVn-hg@giganews.com> <Gtmdnc6WsOhQaciiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <3f566672.342116427@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <u4qzt2cwe.fsf@inout.no>
Message-ID: <3f573c71.396898579@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On 04 Sep 2003 10:09:21 +0200, Syver Enstad <syver at inout.no>
wrote:

> > Code Complete is essential reading for any prpfessional
> > programmer IMHO, but it may not be essential for non pros...
> 
> I agree that Code Complete is a very good book, but I also think it is
> getting somewhat long in the tooth. For once it doesn't cover
> object-orientation. 

Thats a deliberate choice, OO was well established when McConnell
wrote the book. And apart from trivial details (usually language
specific ones) there is no difference between coding in an OO
language or a procedural one. That is the real issues of naming,
layout, control structures, data structures, testing and
debugging remain constant.

> On the topic of coding I wonder if people are not
> better off buying Refactoring by Martin Fowler and Kent Beck. 

These books are more about design than coding IMHO.

> topic of project managment and development practices I would think
> that the XP white book would be more up to date.

Code Complete doesn't cover these, but Rapid Development covers
the principles behind XP etc quite well given that XP per se
wasn't invented then. (But pair programming and several other
features of XP have been around for 20+ years so McConnell was
well aware of them.) XP is also not universally accepted as being
suitable for all projects, particularly big ones, and McConnell
tries to cover all bases.

The other coding centred books that are worth considering in a
similar vein (IMO!) are

The Practice of Programming by Kernighan & Pike

and

The Pragmatic Programmer by Hunt & Thomas

And for an overview of all the different development
lifecycle/methodologies I recommend the book:

Wicked Problems, Righteous Solutions by DeGrace & Stahl

Its pre XP but most of XP can be found there in one form or
another.

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From j_k_wd at bellsouth.net  Fri Sep 19 23:20:30 2003
From: j_k_wd at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Dillworth)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:20:30 -0400
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
In-Reply-To: <200309192243.27913.j_k_wd@bellsouth.net>
References: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com> <3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9@engcorp.com> <200309192243.27913.j_k_wd@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <200309192320.32647.j_k_wd@bellsouth.net>

whoops!  Forgot the '^' in the regex...

>>> import re
>>> s = 'chg cbonn_fee'
>>> print re.sub('^chg ', '', s)


On Friday 19 September 2003 10:43 pm, Jeremy Dillworth wrote:
> As an alternative you could use re.sub()
>
> >>> import re
> >>> s = 'chg cbonn_fee'
> >>> print re.sub('chg ', '', s)
>
> cbonn_fee
>
> On Friday 19 September 2003 8:11 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Pete Jereb wrote:
> > > Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
> > > win32
> > >
> > > >>> s = 'chg bonn_fee'
> > > >>> print s
> > >
> > > chg bonn_fee
> > >
> > > >>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
> > >
> > > bonn_fee
> > >
> > > >>> s = 'chg conn_fee'
> > > >>> print s
> > >
> > > chg conn_fee
> > >
> > > >>> print s.lstrip('chg ')
> > >
> > > onn_fee
> > >
> > > Does this make any sense at all?  where did the lead c in conn_fee go?
> >
> > Based on the behaviour you describe, I would assume lstrip()
> > removes, starting at the beginning of the string, all characters
> > which are *anywhere* in the argument string you give it, until
> > it encounters a character not in that string, at which point it
> > stops.
> >
> > -Peter





From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 16 15:11:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:11:39 -0400
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr> <9egemvkhp2s55horjr9dfveml22158d62g@4ax.com> <bk7lfj$v5p$1@bagan.srce.hr>
Message-ID: <3F67606B.C9A89EF3@engcorp.com>

Ivan Voras wrote:
> 
> Ok, I gather touples should be smaller & faster as I thought :)

Don't make a decision based on performance.  Use tuples if you
require the immutability, or if you want to follow Guido's "advice" (?)
to treat them as simple unnamed structs.

Use lists any time you want lists of stuff, even if you think you
might benefit by the supposedly higher performance of a tuple.

Anyone reading your code will likely be much happier, and you won't
find yourself getting caught in a bind because you've used an 
immutable tuples where you really should have used a list.

-Peter



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Sat Sep 27 03:15:53 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:15:53 -0400
Subject: Digest Authentication (RFC 2831)
Message-ID: <20030927071553.GA11955@intarweb.us>

  I've been trying to implement support for this authentication scheme for a
little while now, and in the last couple days I've been completely stumped.

  I know about the digest authentication code in urllib2, and while I'd like
to use it directly, it is too closely tied to HTTP for my needs.

  I have taken hints from the code, but I am still stuck with something that
doesn't recognize correct challenge responses as correct.

  I've reduced the problem to this code:

    user = "exarkun"
    passwd = "password"
    realm = "intarweb.us"
    nonce = "abcdefg"
    qop = "auth"
    method = "REGISTER"
    uri = "sip:exarkun at intarweb.us"

    nc = cnonce = ''

    def H(s):
        return md5.md5(s).digest()

    def KD(k, s):
        return H(k + ":" + s)

    def HEX(s):
        return s.encode('hex')

    def A1(user, realm, passwd, nonce, cnonce):
        r = H(user + ":" + realm + ":" + passwd)
        return r + ":" + nonce + ":" + cnonce

    def A2(uri, method):
        return method + ":" + uri

    def RESP(a1, nonce, nc, cnonce, qop, a2):
        r = nonce + ":" + nc + ":" + cnonce + ":" + qop + ":"
        return HEX(KD(H(a1), r + HEX(H(a2))))

    def g():
        return RESP(
            A1(user, realm, passwd, nonce, cnonce),
            nonce, nc, cnonce, qop, A2(uri, method)
        )

    correct = '8cf8b637395da8475d65aaf45e4cfad5'

    v = g()
    print v == correct
    print correct
    print v
    
  It is, essentially, a straight translation from the RFC, but I have been
unable to get it to produce the given correct value for the given inputs. 
One sticking point seems to be that the client authenticating against me
omits both the nc and cnonce values.  If there is a standard correct way of
computing the digest without those values, it does not seem to be covered by
the RFC.  I have tried the obvious approaches of simply removing them,
supplying "" as their value, etc, but nothing works.

  I am on the verge of breaking down the md5() calls so I can discover the
point of failure more accurately, but before I did that I was hoping I might
find someone who has implemented this before and could give me some hints.

  Any help is appreciated,

  Jp

-- 
No, `Eureka' is Greek for `This bath is too hot.'
                -- Dr. Who
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From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Fri Sep 19 14:40:11 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:40:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
In-Reply-To: <53332.199.169.240.132.1063995923.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
References: <53332.199.169.240.132.1063995923.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
Message-ID: <50473.199.169.240.132.1063996811.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

I forgot to mention some things.  If I do subtraction between two qDate
objects, I want to get an integer that shows the number of periods (in
this case, quarters) between the two dates:

>>> 2001q1 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=1)
>>> 2001q4 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=4)
>>> 2001q4 - 2001q1
3

But if I subtract an integer from my qDate object, I want to get a new
qDate object returned, like this:

>>> 2001q4 - 2
(new qDate object with year=2001 and quarter=2)

Any ideas how to make this possible?





> Hi-
>
>
> I need to make a class for quartlerly dates.  I need to be able to compare
> two quarterly dates and get the number of quarters between them.  For
> example:
>
>>>> 2001q1 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=1)
>>>> 2001q4 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=4)
>>>> 2001q4 - 2001q1
> 3
>
> The only problem is that I have no idea how to override operators in
> python.  Can anyone give me a few trivial examples of how it is done?
>
> And, on a completely unrelated note, I am getting a truly amazing amount
> of spam today.  Anyone else?
>
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From jfmoxley at mit.edu  Thu Sep 11 14:20:11 2003
From: jfmoxley at mit.edu (Joel)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 11:20:11 -0700
Subject: nested data structures in classes
References: <mailman.1061749909.28327.python-list@python.org> <e31c4866.0308291220.776a92a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e31c4866.0309111020.20e4f911@posting.google.com>

For posterity, here's what ended up working.  Many thanks to Tom Minka
for showing me this.  I understood the class stuff in principle, but I
just couldn't implement correctly.

class ReactionClass:
        def __init__(self,Name='',Reactant=[],Product=[]):
                self.Name = Name
                self.Reactant = Reactant
                self.Product = Product
        def __str__(self):
        # how to print the object
                return self.Name+': '+str(self.Reactant)+' ->
'+str(self.Product
)

Reaction = []
# two different ways of defining a reaction
Reaction.append(ReactionClass('Kinase',['GLUC', 'ATP'],['G6P',
'ADP']))
print(Reaction[0].Name)
print(Reaction[0])
Reaction.append(ReactionClass())
Reaction[1].Name = 'and so on'
Reaction[1].Reactant = ['one', 'two']
Reaction[1].Product = 'something else'
print(Reaction[1])
print(Reaction[1].Reactant[1])



jfmoxley at mit.edu (Joel) wrote in message news:<e31c4866.0308291220.776a92a5 at posting.google.com>...
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
> 
> Joel Forrest Moxley <jfmoxley at MIT.EDU> wrote in message news:<mailman.1061749909.28327.python-list at python.org>...
> > Greetings python-list!
> > 
> > The good news is that I've been having a blast with Python since early
> > Spring.  I've had great success in both learning the language from online
> > / usegroup resources and implementing it in one of my projects.  However,
> > I can't pretend to be an expert, and I do not have a strong comp sci
> > background.
> > 
> > This is a question that I've had for a while.  Usually, I'll stumble
> > across the answer with repeated attempts and re-searching the groups, but
> > I didn't have luck with this one, even in a Dietel book I picked up at the
> > library.  I'm assuming there's an obvious answer, so maybe ya'll can save
> > me some time.
> > 
> > My Python use involves organizing nested list information.  In a
> > simplified example, you could imagine a list of reactants and products in
> > a chemical reaction.  Thus,
> > 
> > len(nested_list_of_reactants) = len(nested_list_of_products) => "number of
> > reactions"
> > where: nested_list_of_reactants[i] => "list of reactants for reaction i"
> > where: nested_list_of_reactants[i][j] => "reactant j of reaction i"
> > 
> > And so forth.  Obviously, there are many attributes associated with a
> > specific reaction.  Currently, I just pass these attribute lists (nested
> > and non-nested) into and out of functions.  However, I'd like to be able
> > to create a class that would streamline this.
> > 
> > E.g., (this is a MATLAB structure whose qualities I'd like to emulate):
> > reaction(27).name = 'fawlty towers'
> > reaction(27).reactant(2).name = 'john cleese'
> > 
> > Currently, I'd have a list and a nested list to take care of this...
> > reaction_name[27] = 'fawlty towers' and reactants[27][2] = 'john cleese'
> > if this makes sense.
> > 
> > Any thoughts or suggestions on this type of data structuring would be
> > greatly appreciated.  Python love, Joel



From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Tue Sep 30 08:04:33 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:04:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <3f7918e1-cebe25d5-ba02-4762-ae3e-ad3bb70874cb@news.szn.dk> <_e9eb.9852$NX3.7090@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3f797151-bf04018c-520c-41ee-90cc-98041c2bdafd@news.szn.dk>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

>> I found 5,761,455 primes < 1E8.
>
> http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/howmany.shtml has the same
> number. (found by googling for "5,761,455" - 3rd hit. :)

Cool!

> That's using Proof by Consensus,
>  http://www.isip.msstate.edu/about_us/misc/humor/proofs/

:-)

  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 18:48:03 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:48:03 +0300
Subject: Help with Python
References: <mailman.1063747042.8507.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <om3fmvsgm458gm1shcrg3rfrs3dmarmd3j@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:16:56 -0700, rumours say that "Fernando Armenta"
<farmenta at pillardata.com> might have written:

>I need to check for a directory and move it to other directory if is
>found.  The directory always starts with outlog.XYZ and ends in XYZ
>(where XYZ are variables).  I need to use wild characters.  Here is what
>I have, but is not working.  Any help would be appreciated.  
>
> 
>
>#Path for the file
>
>home_trace = "/home/testeng/ca/tds/outlog.* "
>
> 
>
>#Path for the directory where I want to move the file
>
>directory = "/home/testeng/ca/tds/unattached"
>
> 
>
>#If statement 
>
>if os.path.exists(home_trace):
>
>        os.system ("chmod -fR 775 outlog.* ")
>
>        os.system ("mv outlog.* " + directory)

Import glob, then for each file in glob.glob('outlog.*'), use os.chmod()
and os.rename() with appropriate parameters.  os.rename() would probably
fail if you moved your files to another filesystem, but in your example
this does not seem to be the case.

PS I just remembered that I have seen at least one C++ freshly-graduated
programmer serving as a sysadm in a university praising C++ as a
scripting language (!); his code was full of system() calls.  When I
asked him, "why not a shell script?", he said "this is faster... it's
C++...".
I mentioned the difference of a shell doing spawn() and an executable
doing spawn() to a shell doing another spawn().
Discussing it further, he said that executables are not "legible"; so,
*just before* suggesting a "chmod 500" operation on a root-owned script,
I told him about the "strings" command as an obvious counter-argument
for a naive disassembly.  I chose the wrong order of sentences; he
actually removed /usr/bin/strings in haste, as if his job was depending
on its disappearance...  FWIW, it did --in the opposite way.
There are no limits.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From jordan at krushen.com  Mon Sep 29 22:56:54 2003
From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:56:54 GMT
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <21064255.0309291225.259555ec@posting.google.com> <m31xtzrou9.fsf@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <oprwak8lyv5ctagx@shawnews>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:29:18 -0300, Jorge Godoy <godoy at metalab.unc.edu> 
wrote:

>> Availability: Unix, Windows. spawnlp(), spawnlpe(), spawnvp() and
>> spawnvpe() are not available on Windows. New in version 1.6.
>
> So I should be safe since I'm using spawnv (and not spawnvp or
> spawnvpe). :-)

For running a file based on its extension, you could try os.startfile().

J.



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 24 14:35:49 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:35:49 -0500
Subject: __init__ return value
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FFE@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FFE@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <16241.58373.833630.615370@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Facundo> The question is about the last two lines: When you call
    Facundo> self.__init__(...), doesn't it return a value that you should
    Facundo> return too?

No, __init__ method return values are always ignored.

Skip




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 10:33:14 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:33:14 -0500
Subject: Can Python Module Locate Itself?
In-Reply-To: <VYR9b.1109$c17.866@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
References: <VYR9b.1109$c17.866@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <16232.28842.523390.480626@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    sj> I have written several small shell utilities in Python and typically
    sj> use comments at the start of the source file as documentation. A
    sj> command line option allows the user to read this documentation.  The
    sj> problem is that I have to explicitly code the source files location
    sj> within the source which is not very portable.  Is there anyway for a
    sj> python module to locate its own source ?

This doesn't answer your question about locating the source file (yes, you
can most of the time, check the __file__ global), but I start out with this
template when creating a new script:

    #!/usr/bin/env python

    """
    Python Script Template

    usage %(prog)s [ -h ] ...

    -h - print this documentation and exit.
    """

    import sys
    import getopt

    prog = sys.argv[0]

    def usage(msg=None):
        if msg is not None:
            print >> sys.stderr, msg
        print >> sys.stderr, __doc__.strip() % globals()

    def main(args):
        try:
            opts, args = getopt.getopt(args, "h", ["--help"])
        except getopt.GetoptError, msg:
            usage(msg)
            return 1

        for opt, arg in opts:
            if opt in ("-h", "--help"):
                usage()
                return 0

        return 0

    if __name__ == "__main__":
        sys.exit(main(sys.argv[1:]))

This guarantees I always have a help capability, no matter how trivial.
(This is not original with me.  I gleaned all the idioms used in this script
from this group over the years.)

Skip




From ulope at gmx.de  Thu Sep 18 08:19:08 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:19:08 +0200
Subject: How to pass parameter to a module?
References: <Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bkc7rs$1ij6$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174 at twister.southeast.rr.com...
> I'd like to parametrize a module. That is, to set and pass
> some values into the module, while it is being imported.
> I tried this:
>
>   # sub_1.py -- main program
>   extern = "OK"
>   import sub_2
>   print sub_2.noway # prints 'no extern' :-(
>   # EOF
>
>   # sub_2.py -- parametrized module, parameter is the 'extern' var
>   try:
>      noway = extern
>   except:
>      noway = 'no extern'
>   # EOF
>

It looks like you are using modules where you would rather use functions.
exp:
-------------------cut---------
def sub2(blah=None):
    if blah is None:
       return "no extern"
    else:
        return blah

sub2('test')
sub2()

HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 15 11:44:20 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:44:20 +0200
Subject: Multiple instances of modules
In-Reply-To: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
References: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F65DE54.1040605@ghaering.de>

Daniel Pryde wrote:
> Hi there.
> 
> I'm currently trying to learn Python, my aim being to create my final
> year project at university using only Python instead of Java. I've run
> into a problem though while trying to make multiple instances of
> modules.
> 
> For example, say I made a CD.py module which held details of an audio
> compact dic (album name, track names, etc..), and wanted my Python
> script to make a record collection using multiple CD's, I can't make
> them seperately. I tried using the 'import module as name' format, but
> any changes made to one instance affects the other. I assume this is
> because Python is simply referencing the one instance of CD.py rather
> than seperate ones. Is there a solution to this that doesn't involve
> using cPython or Jython? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Use class instances to keep state, not modules. This is really the 
basics of object-oriented programming and should be explained in the 
(Python) tutorials.

-- Gerhard




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Sep  6 18:52:14 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 23:52:14 +0100
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <87fzjalogu.fsf@pobox.com> <bjccn3$eb$07$1@news.t-online.com> <87vfs6unsx.fsf@pobox.com> <q5r4qzqnlha.fsf@hector.lesours> <bjco6f$fsc$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87n0dhpm1t.fsf@pobox.com>

"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> writes:

> "Basile STARYNKEVITCH" <basile-news at starynkevitch.net>
[...]
> But you bring up Python's aspects as a "glue language". Is Python the better
> "glue language"? May be. Have look at DISLIN which (I think) is a FORTRAN
> project by nature. And SIP and WSIG are quite nice.

Mmm?  What about them?


> However the *real* programs then are the mathematical packages, OpenGL,
> simulation and visualisation.

See below.


> But may be the whole concept of programming is changing somehow - not in the
> direction of OOP; that is "by the way" so to speak. But to the following
> understanding:
>     A program is an entity that controls other entities by support of an
> underlying virtual machine.

No, I don't see why the definition of a computer program needs any
modification.


> This new view will support the existing differentiation between package
> maker ("real programmer") and scripting user ("domain specialist")

So application programming isn't "real programming" and doesn't
require a "real programmer"?  You're beginning to sound like a troll!
(though I'm sure you don't mean to)


> In this interpretation (as secondary glue language) I see a good future for
> Python.

The reality of programming in Python is that in applications
programming (and much else too, of course), it's languages like C that
are secondary.  Most of the time, it's rare that you need to drop down
there to speed something up.  And much of the time that one *does* use
C (or whatever) libraries, the major reason is simply that solid
working code already exists there, rather than some failing of Python
(though there are certainly also many cases where close to raw C speed
is crucial).

[...]
> You might already have guessed, that I belong to the generation that learnt
> programming the Knuthian way, starting with assembly language and beeing
> always aware that a van Neumann hardware interpreted their compiled code.
> And input and output were a teletype.....

And you got out of bed in the morning three hours before you went to
sleep, I know ;-)


John



From danielk at aracnet.com  Tue Sep  2 09:05:09 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 06:05:09 -0700
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com> <mailman.1062316219.24419.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5959lvs6au0b454r2lbvkb5nourhmigvnj@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:47:49 -0400, Graham Fawcett
<fawcett at teksavvy.com> wrote:


>Why not just use the same attribute name in each class?
>
>    class Dead(object):
>        def __init__(self, deadthing):
>            self.thing = deadthing
>
>    class Parrot(object):
>        def __init__(self, parrotthing):
>            self.thing = parrotthing
>
>Then you can access the attribute as `someobj.thing`.
>
>Given that you hate getters, and that you didn't title your message, 
>"Encapsulation the Python Way", accessing instance attributes directly 
>is fair game.  ;-)

Yes, I could do this, but a method provides better control over the
state.

Daniel Klein



From rjc at tampabay.rr.com  Thu Sep 25 13:24:56 2003
From: rjc at tampabay.rr.com (Robert Clayton)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:24:56 GMT
Subject: Packages and PyKyra
References: <1dCcb.11020$Of2.520042@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <6wCcb.164799$R32.5291608@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <IxFcb.11100$Of2.540309@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

Thank you!

There are no PyKyra .py, .pyc, .pyd files.

There is a release PyKyra.dll and a source directory contains a __init__.py
file.

Trying to use the PyKyra.dll returns:

"ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initPyKyra)"

Therefore I was attempting to define the location of the Package (directory
structure).
There is little information about creating path references for Packages in
Windows.
Some material suggest various registry entrys others suggest a environment
variable.

I have attempted the three suggestions I found:

1)  A System Environment Variable "PYTHONPATH" with the directory string.
2)  Addition of the directory to the existing Registry Key String
"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\PythonPath"
3)  Creation of a new Registry Key
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PYTHONPATH with the accompanying
directory,

None of these seem to work.  The error "ImportError:  No module named
xxxxxxxx" appears to mean that nothing is treated as a package.

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:6wCcb.164799$R32.5291608 at news2.tin.it...
> Robert Clayton wrote:
>
> > In the PyKyra example programs what does the statement:
> >
> > "from PyKyra import *"
> >
> > I now assume that this represents a Package hierarchy and not the file
> > "PyKyra.py" as there is none but for Windows 2000 I am unable to
determine
> > whereor how  the path is represented (registry, environment, etc.).  Any
> > suggestions?
>
> I have no idea about what PyKyra is, but:
>
> [a]
> You can find out what the path is, at any time, by the two statements:
>
> import sys
> print sys.path
>
> [b]
> If you're right in stating there is no PyKyra.py file, then the
> import may be coming from:
>     [b1] a PyKyra.pyc or .pyo bytecode file
>     [b2] a PyKyra.pyd or .dll C-coded extension module
>     [b3] the __init__.py file in a PyKyra directory on the path
>
> The only case involving "packages" is [b3] -- that's what a
> package _IS_... a directory with an __init__.py file.
>
>
> In any case, the "from PyKyra import *" statement gets the
> contents listed in the __all__ entry in module PyKyra, or, if
> no such entry, then all entries in module PyKyra whose names
> do not start with a single underscore character _ .
>
> The usage of "from whatever import *" is generally unadvisable
> except perhaps in those rare cases in which module 'whatever'
> has been carefully designed to support this.  Personally, I've
> lost the habit of "import *" just about entirely -- even for
> carefully designed modules such as Tkinter and Numeric, I do
> "import Tkinter as Tk" or "import Numeric as N" and then access
> their entries explicitly as Tk.Tk, N.array, etc, etc.  I find,
> personally, that this makes my programs more maintainable.
>
>
> Alex
>
>





From cliechti at gmx.net  Sun Sep 28 20:37:44 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 02:37:44 +0200
Subject: ANN: Win32 Screensaver library
Message-ID: <Xns94051AB966225cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Win32 Screensaver

This is a complete rewrite of my old screensaver module. This one is pure 
Python with the help of ctypes and py2exe. It is intended to make it easy 
to write windows screensavers in pure Python. Screensavers using the pyscr 
module can be implemented with ctypes (a little wrapper class around a DC 
already exits) or win32all. The pyscr_pygame module also gives the 
opportunity to write the screensaver with pygame.

The Win32 parts are implemented using ctypes.

Requires Python 2.3, ctypes, py2exe. Download archive with the library and 
examples: http://homepage.hispeed.ch/py430/python/index.html

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Sep  1 10:31:06 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 16:31:06 +0200
Subject: method (a, b = '', *c, **d): gets a syntax error?
References: <3F4F644D.2060003@uni-bonn.de> <3dqcndZe5u2g4NKiXTWJiA@comcast.com>
 <bio47c$q2m$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
 <bio5d1$13a6$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <wzhe3w37it.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Andreas Neudecker <a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de> (AN) wrote:

AN> Still it puzzles me that in one case it is okay in the other one not. Seems
AN> unlogical to me. Can anyone enlighten me to why this is so?

It is quite logical. The idea behind the optional comma after the last
parameter is such that it would be easy to change your function to include
additional parameters. When you put each parameter on a separate line (as
you did in your examples) , you just have to add a single line with the new
parameter and it doesn't matter whether the new parameter comes in as the
last one or at any other place. If you leave out the final comma, and the
new parameter is the last one, you would have to add the comma to the
previous line, which can easily be forgotten.

However, when you have  **kwargs it must be last, so there is no need to
put an additional comma. In fact it would be confusing as it would suggest
that you can add additional parameters after it.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 09:41:20 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:41:20 +0100
Subject: Saving Numeric arrays to file?
References: <bl2ktf$8lq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <bl2ov9$78mdr$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bl43pu$216$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:bl2ov9$78mdr$1 at ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Duncan Smith asks about writing Numeric arrays to disk:
> >        [ 0,  0,  0,  5,  0,  0]])
> > >>> f = file('c:\Data\IS_rounded.txt', 'w')
> >
>
> Perhaps with 'wb' ?
>
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
>
>

It doesn't work for me.  Looks like I'll maybe have to avoid \n altogether,
use spaces to separate the strings and read characters individually.
Basically I have a few hundred thousand sets of 4 tables, each associated
with a unique key.  The idea was to store them as a text file so that I
could quickly fire them into a dictionary (memory permitting?) when I need
to use them.  Maybe I should be using MySQL for persistence?  What I *would*
like is a reasonably generic (and not terribly inefficient) solution for
storing strings that contain escape characters in text files.  Cheers.

Duncan





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 08:29:20 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:29:20 GMT
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <Ak%5b.26724$R32.814107@news2.tin.it>

Patrick Useldinger wrote:

> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last
> few years, about Python or IT in general.

I see you got a lot of excellent recommendations (none Python-related,
that I've seen, though -- oh well!) and I just thought I'd add mine...:


Agile Software Development, Principles, Patterns, and Practices
by Robert C. Martin, Prentice Hall

    just about the book I wanted to write myself -- *except* that
    all examples are in Java and C++, while I would have chosen
    Python and Ruby.  But if you can stomach reading Java and C++,
    this is VERY worth reading.


Agile Modeling: Effective Practices for Extreme Programming and the Unified
Process -- by Scott W. Ambler, John Wiley

    most XP / Agile development books underplay any artefacts that
    aren't code -- Ambler shows convincingly how and why "modeling"
    artefacts may play a crucial role in such dev't processes, and
    does so in an extremely readable way.


Who Says Elephants Can't Dance? Inside IBM's Historic Turnaround
by Louis V. Gerstner Jr., HarperBusiness

    If you're at all curious how IBM was turned around (I was, having
    left IBM just before its crisis became visible and being left with
    substantial fondness for that firm), this book will prove quite
    interesting indeed.



Alex




From no at spamail.com  Sat Sep 20 10:16:58 2003
From: no at spamail.com (jimbob)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:16:58 -0400
Subject: Newbie Help
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.20.14.16.57.527273@spamail.com>

Hello all,
I am trying to move a file from one dir to another. However I keep
receiving this error:


OSError: [Errno 18] Invalid cross-device link
 

which stemms from the code:


os.rename('/home/me/%s' %z ,'/home1/pics/%s' % z)

/home1/pics is on a different dirve(hdb1) as opposed to /home which is on
(hda1). Any ideas as to how to get around this?

					Thanks




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Sep 11 03:50:51 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 03:50:51 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>
 <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
 <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>
 <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>
 <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org> <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
 <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
 <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org>
 <mailman.1063251143.12678.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnbm08ud.d9.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
Message-ID: <blCY/kKkXgGD092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl> wrote previously:
|I think it's a mistake to cite Lott here. As an extreme libertarian he
|has shown his own bias a couple of times. His famous "More guns, less
|crime" findings has been challenged recently (see e.g.
|http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,562387,00.html

As well as Lott's tendency to outright falsify data, which Staniak
cites, Lott is pretty much an unabashed White Supremicist ideologue,
e.g.:

    http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/wholott.htm

He's actually quite a nut in a lot of ways other than that, for example
arguing that dioxin is harmless to people; or that wealthy people should
not be punished for committing violent crimes, only poor people.

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jakle1 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 20 21:12:04 2003
From: jakle1 at hotmail.com (News)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:12:04 GMT
Subject: None???
Message-ID: <EV6bb.1834$iT4.1283814@news1.news.adelphia.net>

I just started using python a few weeks ago. This is my first program. You
input your income and what percent you want to save then it tells you how
much to put away. The the code works, but it puts in the word "none" after
it calls the function. Is the call sytax incorrect? I'd appreciate any
feedback you could offer .

# savings.py    09-14-03

print "Hello, welcome to my savings program."
print
print "I will ask you a few questions then calculate"
print "the info and give you a plan of action."
print
first_name = raw_input("What is your first name? ")
print
last_name = raw_input("What is your last name? ")
print
income = input("How much do you make a year after taxes? ")
print
percent = input("What percent of your income do you want to put aside? ")
print

weekly_income = income/52

def compute(income, percent):
    result = income*percent/100
    print result

print "Ok,",first_name + " " + last_name
print
print "This is how much you should put away a week:"
print "$",compute(weekly_income, percent)
print
print "If you stick to this you will go places!!! :-)"


begin 666 smile.gif
M1TE&.#EA#P`/`*(``````-754O__`.;F5/7U5=O;4____P```"'Y! 44``8`
M+ `````/``\```-):*K0O="T4&IX$(1!A"?#M6B=9PJ$* U"8[H#( 6=Z[EI
J4YR\5^@]W@\P#.HF!-L+D%NU' Y!C$%[1IM4C at FD&FDJA8LLPH!&$@`[
`
end




From sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr  Tue Sep 30 08:19:22 2003
From: sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr (Sylvain =?iso-8859-1?q?Th=E9nault?=)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 14:19:22 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list@python.org> <EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305@fed1read04> <ToKdb.9$t44.805@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <jN7eb.4479$hp5.4259@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <83ekxyii45.fsf@musca.logilab.fr>

"Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> writes:

> They not only feel no need to document, they also feel no need to follow ANN
> threads they start.

Sorry, I don't have the time to follow c.l.py at the moment and that's
just today that I've been informed about this thread.

So, regarding the command line, pylint expects the name of a package
or module as argument. As a convenience, you can give to it a file
name if it's possible to guess a module name from the file's
path, using the python path. Some examples :

"pylint mymodule.py" should always works since the current working
directory is automatically added on top  of the python path

"pylint directory/mymodule.py" will work if "directory" is a python
package (i.e. has an __init__.py file) or if "directory" is in the
python path.

"pylint /whatever/directory/mymodule.py" will work if either:
  - "/whatever/directory" is in the python path
  - your cwd is "/whatever/directory"
  - "directory" is a python package and "/whatever" is in the python path
  - "directory" is a python package and your cwd is "/whatever"
  and so on...


Regarding the lack of documentation, we're pretty busy at this time at
logilab, but I hope we'll have the time to write some until the next
release... Anyway, any contribution would be welcome ;)


Hope that helps, 
regards
-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France).

http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 18:21:53 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 23:21:53 +0100
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <3F5B8C51.6462BC38@alcyone.com> <bjg47a$euv$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <877k4kjl32.fsf@pobox.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <3F5B8C51.6462BC38 at alcyone.com>,
> Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> >
> >Could someone remind me what need there is for a redesign in the first
> >place?  Of all the Python-related efforts that one could put time into,
> >this seems like one of the least useful.
> 
> AMK's comment is a bit overdone, so here's something more understated:
[snip]

Whatever.  Just don't get rid of all those cute skewed Python logos in
all the different typefaces.  All sensible people will agree that
that's clearly the most important aspect of the site ;-)


John



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Sep 15 21:27:44 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:27:44 -0400
Subject: object.attribute vs. object.getAttribute()
References: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <QcmZ/kKkXgYI092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote previously:
|1) Implicit documentation of which attributes I intended to be part of
|an object's externally visible state (accessors).

Some attribute names start with an underscore.  Those are the ones that
are NOT intended to be part of the external interface.

|2) Hooks to do data checking or invarient assertions (mutators).

Yep, you need accessors (or properties) to do this.

|3) Decoupling classes by hiding the details of data structures.

Initial underscores again.

|4) Vague feeling that I'm doing a good thing by being more in line with
|mainstream OO practices :-)

If you want to be mainstream, use VB.  But accessors are not IMO a
requirement for "proper" OOP.

Yours, Lulu...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From mwh at python.net  Wed Sep  3 07:17:08 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:17:08 GMT
Subject: Difference of hash and __hash__()
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEAD454A@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com> <mailman.1062542167.17108.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3ekyygm58.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> writes:

> On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 07:35:31AM +1000, Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> > > From: Terry Reedy [mailto:tjreedy at udel.edu]
> > > 
> > > "Stefan Fleiter" <stefan.fleiter at web.de> wrote in message
> > > news:bj2nv5$hna$1 at news.web.de...
> > > 
> > > > under Python 2.2.2:
> > > >
> > > >  >>> s = slice(None,5,None)
> > > >  >>> hash(s)
> > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > >    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > > > TypeError: unhashable type
> > > >  >>> s.__hash__()
> > > > 136775584
> > > >
> > > > Can anybody explain this?
> > > 
> > > It looks like a bug.  Extended slices were added for use by Numerical
> > > Python.  It may never have tried to hash them or only done so only
> > > through the C equivavlent of s.__hash__.  Extended slicing of
> > > sequences was, I believe, only added in 2.3.
> > 
> > Looks like a bug to me too. Stefan, please raise a bug report on Sourceforge (or it will get lost). Preferably add a patch and test suite ;)
> > 
> > Tim Delaney
> 
> No, it's apparently deliberate that slices don't hash (so that
> {}[1:2] raises an error).  I think that slice(None).__hash__ is from
> object.__hash__, but this is rightfully(?) ignored by PyObject_Hash()
> which looks at tp_hash (NULL for slice objects) and tp_compare (non-NULL
> for slice objects) with the result that the object is treated as
> unhashable.

That's odd.  I would have expected PyType_Ready to copy the tp_hash
method down from PyObjectType.tp_hash to PySliceType.tp_hash.  Of
course, I haven't read the code for PyType_Ready particularly
recently, and don't know if it's ever called on PySliceType...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I'm not sure that the ability to create routing diagrams 
  similar to pretzels with mad cow disease is actually a 
  marketable skill.                                     -- Steve Levin
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html



From duduca007 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 07:31:49 2003
From: duduca007 at yahoo.com (Carlos Moreira)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 04:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PYTHONPATH x *.pth???
In-Reply-To: <bj85co$5r7$02$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20030905113149.47967.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Martin_v._L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> - Why is it that you don't want to install the
>    packages in the default directory? Then,
> considering
>    that reason, why would it be acceptable to
> install
>    a .pth file there?
> 
> - Is it acceptable that users of your application
> set
>    PYTHONPATH?
> 
> - Do you have to consider multiple installations of
> Python
> 
> And so on.

> Both with be kept indefinitely.

Thank you Martin.

          []?s

Cadu

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From jblazi at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 20 17:51:30 2003
From: jblazi at hotmail.com (jblazi)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:51:30 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de> <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.20.21.51.30.296000@hotmail.com>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:30:37 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
> For the above, what is wrong with
> 
>  >>> def test():
>  ...     s = 'helo world'
>  ...     print s
>  ...     s = s.replace('helo','hello',1)
>  ...     print s
>  ...
>  >>> test()
>  helo world
>  hello world

Nothing is wrong with that, of course, but my code is something like this:


def vergleiche_woerter(eingabe,wort):
    eing = mysplit(eingabe)
    wo   = mysplit(wort)
    ergebnis=['-','-','-','-','-']

    # Suche zuerst nach Bullen
    for i in range(len(eing)):
        if eing[i] == wo[i]:
            ergebnis[i] = '*'
            eing[i]=wo[i] = None

    for i in range(len(eing)):
        if eing[i] == None: continue
        if eing[i] in wo:
            j = wo.index(eing[i])
            ergebnis[i] = '.'
            wo[j] = None

    return join(ergebnis,'')




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com  Wed Sep 24 11:52:10 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:52:10 +0200
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
References: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com> <bkroq8$8ud$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr> <8ad2cfb3.0309240530.19029a98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bkse5a$q4l$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>

Nick Keighley wrote:
> Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com> wrote in message news:<bkroq8$8ud$1 at news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>...
> 
>>Nick Keighley wrote:
> 
> 
>>>I'm probably missing something rather obvious, but is there a known 
>>>problem with getting a Python based socket program to communicate with
>>>a C based socket program? A simple echo server written in Python
>>>(the example from Python in a Nutshell actually) will happily talk
>>>to a Python based client. If a C based client is substitued the connection
>>>is refused (or so the C client reports). The C client will talk to
>>>a C server.
>>
>>Communications between C and Python via sockets definetly work: we do that 
>>every  day (no kidding ;-)
>>
>>Can you post an example of your code?
> 
> 
> well I assumed sockets actually worked I was guessing the slight
> differences in the interfaces caused me to set the two ends up
> slightly
> differently.
> 
> Python Echo Server
> ------------------
> import socket
> 
> DEFAULT_PROTOCOL = 0
> PORT = 8702
> 
> sock = socket.socket (socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM,
> DEFAULT_PROTOCOL)
> sock.bind (('', PORT))
> sock.listen (5)
> 
> # wait for a connection
> try:
>     while True:
>         newSocket, address = sock.accept ()
>         print "connected from", address
>         while True:
>             receivedData = newSocket.recv (8192)
>             if not receivedData:
>                 break
>             print "received: ", receivedData
>             newSocket.sendall (receivedData)
>         newSocket.close()
>         print "disconnected from", address
> finally:
>     sock.close ()
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> C echo client (includes omitted)
> -------------------------------
> #define DEFAULT_PROTOCOL   0
> #define PORT 8702
> #define HOST "localhost"
> /* #define HOST "127.0.0.1"    */
> /* #define HOST "cmopc018"  */
> #define TYPE SOCK_STREAM
> 
> 
> int main (void)
> {  
>     struct hostent  *phe;
>     struct sockaddr_in sin;
>     int s;
> 
>     s = socket (PF_INET, TYPE, DEFAULT_PROTOCOL);
>     if (s < 0)
>         raise_report (LEVEL_FATAL, "tiny_echo", "can't create socket:
> %s", strerror (errno));
> 
> 
>     /*
>      * connect to the socket 
>      */
> 
>     memset (&sin, 0, sizeof sin);
>     sin.sin_family = AF_INET;
>     sin.sin_port = PORT;
>     if ((phe = gethostbyname (HOST)))
>     {
>         memcpy (&sin.sin_addr, phe->h_addr_list[0], phe->h_length);
>     	raise_report (LEVEL_INFO, "tiny_echo", "addr is %X",
> sin.sin_addr);
>      }
>     else
>         if ((sin.sin_addr.s_addr = inet_addr (HOST)) == INADDR_NONE)
>             raise_report (LEVEL_FATAL, "tiny_echo", "can't get \"%s\"
> host entry", HOST);
> 
>     if (connect (s, (struct sockaddr *)&sin, sizeof sin) < 0)
>         raise_report (LEVEL_FATAL, "tiny_echo", "can't connect to
> %s.%d: %s", HOST, sin.sin_port, strerror (errno));
> 
>     raise_report (LEVEL_INFO, "tiny_echo", "CONNECTED");
> 
>     return 0;
> }
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After adding the missing htons and replacing the raise_report's by printf's, 
works like a charm here (Linux Mandrake 8.0 with Python 2.1).

What is exactly the error you get?
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric dot brunel at pragmadev dot com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 06:03:17 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:03:17 GMT
Subject: Packages and PyKyra
References: <1dCcb.11020$Of2.520042@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <6wCcb.164799$R32.5291608@news2.tin.it> <IxFcb.11100$Of2.540309@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <F9Ucb.170368$R32.5465033@news2.tin.it>

Robert Clayton wrote:

> Thank you!
> 
> There are no PyKyra .py, .pyc, .pyd files.
> 
> There is a release PyKyra.dll and a source directory contains a
> __init__.py file.
> 
> Trying to use the PyKyra.dll returns:
> 
> "ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initPyKyra)"

Thus, PyKyra.dll, whatever else it may be, is not a Python extension
module named PyKyra.


> Therefore I was attempting to define the location of the Package
> (directory structure).

You need to put the PARENT directory of the PyKyra directory (where
the latter is the one containing __init__.py) on sys.path.  Simplest
is to have a textfile, call it e.g. pykyra.pth, with a single line:

c:\the\parent\directory

in your site-packages directory (e.g. C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\).

> There is little information about creating path references for Packages in
> Windows.

I thought I covered .pth files and various alternatives (all cross-platform:
why go to platform-specific approaches when cross-platform works fine?) in
an adequate fashion in "Python in a Nutshell".  Specifically, it seemed to
me that the sentences:
"""
A package named P resides in a subdirectory, also called P, of some
directory in sys.path.  The module body of P is in the file P/__init__.py.
You must have a file named P/__init__.py, even if it's empty (representing
an empty module body), in order to indicate to Python that directory P
is indeed a package.
"""
(in section Packages, p. 124) were adequate coverage of THAT issue; and
(on p.121, "Searching the Filesystem for a Module"), the sentences:
"""
If a text file with extension .pth is found in the PYTHONHOME directory
at startup, its contents are added to sys.path, one item per line
"""
(and following), were adequate coverage of THAT one (except that, sigh,
the mention of site-packages as a preferable alternative to PYTHONHOME
dropped by the wayside -- doesn't even seem to be among the errata, which
were fixed in the current [09/03] reprint of which I don't yet have a
printed copy).

Did you find this coverage unclear, or inadequate?  If so, then perhaps
you might suggest how to enhance it in a future edition -- thanks!


Alex




From farmenta at pillardata.com  Fri Sep 19 21:43:14 2003
From: farmenta at pillardata.com (Fernando Armenta)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:43:14 -0700
Subject: How you chomp in python
Message-ID: <36504F2E352484458C5D574719DC8372BAC618@caex01.trans.corp>

How you cut off the ^M at the end of a line? rstrip is not working. 

 

string.rstrip(build_number)

 

thanks,

 

-F



 

 

 

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From alleon at club-internet.fr  Fri Sep  5 02:26:12 2003
From: alleon at club-internet.fr (Sophie Alléon)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:26:12 +0200
Subject: reading large file
References: <9bd0dd3f.0309030400.7fa2dc0f@posting.google.com> <bj5e61$pjr$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3f582c85$0$20942$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Thanks to your comments, it is now possible to read my large file in a
couple of minutes
on my machine.

Guillaume
"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> a ?crit dans le message de news:
bj5e61$pjr$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On 3 Sep 2003 05:00:39 -0700, g_alleon at yahoo.fr (guillaume) wrote:
>
> >I have to read and process a large ASCII file containing a mesh : a
> >list of points and triangles.
> >The file is 100 MBytes.
> >
> >I first tried to do it in memory but I think I am running out of
> >memory therefore I decide to use the shelve
> >module to store my points and elements on disks.
> >Despite the fact it is slow ... Any hint ? I think I have the same
> >memory problem but I don't understand why
> >since  my aPoint should be removed by the gc.
> >
> >Have you any idea ?
> >
> Since your data is very homogeneous, why don't you store it in a couple of
> homogeneous arrays? You could easily create a class to give you convenient
> access via indices or iterators etc. Also you could write load and store
> methods that could write both arrays in binary to a file. You could
> consider doing this as a separate conversion from your source file, and
> then run your app using the binary files and wrapper class.
>
> Arrays are described in the array module docs ;-)
> I imagine you'd want to use the 'd' type for ponts and 'l' for faces.
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Sun Sep  7 17:12:08 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 14:12:08 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1062958095.7471.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-9BB491.12173407092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <bjg6up$iojq4$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

David Eppstein wrote:

> Lots of people have been rightly jumping all over the design.  But
> there's something else that I think is very important in the
> current python.org front page and missing from the proposed
> redesign: the text "Welcome to the official website for the Python
> language."
> 
> If one looks at the proposed redesign, it is difficult to tell
> whether Python is an application, a magazine, a business
> consulting partnership,
> or what.  It is also unclear whether the site is run by the same
> people
> responsible for Python, whatever Python is.  Certainly "official
> web site for programming language" is not the first thing that
> springs to mind.

Actually, from its appearance, the new design looks like it is
trying to sell me something.  "Advert filters up!" It makes me
suspicious, skeptical, and cynical, as all advertising does.

I don't mean to criticize the work that's being done for the new
site.  It looks like excellent work.  I do mean to suggest that
perhaps its style is not what I want for the "official Python
site", and, in particular, not for the first/main page.

The new design looks great.  It looks exceptionally well done.
But, instead of the official Python Web site, it would be better
suited for "The Python Advisory Board" or for "The Friends of
Python" or for whatever organization has the mission of promoting
and lobbying for Python.

Maybe if the new main page (python-main-2.html) were at the end of
a link labelled "Python advocacy" ...

And Petter Hansen wrote in a separate message:

> (*) Personally, I never thought the existing site was a big
problem,
> but then I just view the web as a simple way to search for text
> and I still use Netscape 4.7 much of the time, so I'm obviously
not
> the target for these improvements...

I think I'm in this school.  I go to the Web in general and to the
Python site in particular for content, not for graphics. I think
the new design is pretty and very attractive, perhaps *too* pretty
and attractive.  When I send or refer someone to a site like that,
I'd feel I'd have to warn them: "It looks like promotional
material, but don't be put off; there is really good content there
if you look for it.

I suppose you could brush me off as old fashioned and "old
school".  I certainly am.  I like text and content not graphics,
colors, and visual appeal.  But, then I'd argue that text and
cognitive content are what's appropriate for the official Python
site.

The current main page at www.python.org is a portal and a
directory.  It helps me find things that are related to Python,
things that help me with Python, things that I feel will help
others to use Python.  That's why in much of the Python
documentation I write, the current www.python.org is a "must
reference".  I would not feel the same about a site that contains
endorsements from famous people, even nerdy famous people that I
admire.

I would like to request that the new site, whatever its style,
give me as much help as possible finding what I need in order to
use Python.  I'd want the site designer to look at every piece of
that page and ask: Will this help someone find what they need
about Python?

This new design looks great to me. But, it is not the official
Python Web site.  It is the site for some company trying to sell
Python services or Python tools or something.

Look at the Google directory page (http://www.google.com/dirhp).
(It's actually built on the ODP: Open Directory Project, dmoz.org).
You'll see maximum nutrition and minimum calories.  It's very
plain, and very popular.  People know it will help them find what
they want, and they trust it, at least I do.

On the other hand, having several pages that show the kind of
graphical interface that can be constructed with wxPython, pygtk,
etc seems like a good idea to me.

Hope I haven't been uncivil.  I apologize in advance, if I seem to
have been.  And, thanks much for the work that the new site
designers have done.

Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  7 09:07:09 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 06:07:09 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjfaa7$i520m$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

Tim ...

    As an alternative to fixed font sizes,
    you might consider Any Size Design ....

    http://allmyfaqs.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?AnySizeDesign

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From zeitlin at parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Thu Sep 25 16:48:48 2003
From: zeitlin at parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:48:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unknown charset dialog(wxPython problem)
References: <pan.2003.09.24.13.41.17.55650@__moor.pe.krNOSPAM>
Message-ID: <slrnbn6l5g.gr3.zeitlin@parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:41:17 +0900, Charlie Kim <NOSPAM__nabugoon__ at __moor.pe.krNOSPAM> wrote:
> http://gnome.or.kr/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=gnome-apps&id=aks
> 
> Why that dialog box appear whenever run wxPython program?

 Because wxWindows doesn't know about "EUC-KR" encoding (it should, but it
doesn't).

> any idea?

 Normally once you select anything in this dialog it should never appear again
as the result is saved. At least this is what happens at wxWindows level,
maybe wxPython modifies this.

 Regards,
VZ
-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?



From ads at chead.org  Mon Sep 15 22:58:06 2003
From: ads at chead.org (ads)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:58:06 +0700
Subject: from clipper move to python
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20030915085400.041dd200@66.28.54.253>
References: <3812075547.20030915130057@chead.org>
 <6.0.0.22.0.20030915085400.041dd200@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <801542245.20030916095806@chead.org>

Thank you for the respon,

But right now I'm still not ready using linux, a lot of my client were
using windows. Is someone know what should I use to create text
console application like clipper using python in (stupid) windows?

Thanks
:)

--------------- Replied message --------------
The Bat! mailer ver 1.53d
----------------------------------------------
Date    : Monday, September 15, 2003 
>From    : Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu>
To      : ads <ads at chead.org>
Subject : from clipper move to python
----------------------------------------------
At 12:00 AM 9/15/2003, ads wrote:

>Hi Everyone,
>
>I'm starting learning python about 2 weeks, and still have
>difficulties to create GUI based application because I never learn
>about classes and other OOP things. Does anyone knows how to
>create text console application like clipper using python

In the Linux world there's the curses module.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

----------------------------------------------





From rainerd at eldwood.com  Sat Sep 27 14:46:22 2003
From: rainerd at eldwood.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:46:22 GMT
Subject: Now that rexec is gone...
References: <XA8db.597231$o%2.276974@sccrnsc02> <QXWdndTwwa-egeiiU-KYvg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <2Wkdb.599238$YN5.441102@sccrnsc01>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> Suggest you google last year of c.l.py for 'rexec'.  Also check out
> py-dev summaries of last fall for discussion of why removed.

I see... It turns out that, short of modifying the Python interpreter, there
is no way to get real security.  '"".__class__' gives access to 'str', 'str'
gives access to 'object', and 'object' gives access to 'file'.


-- 
Rainer Deyke - rainerd at eldwood.com - http://eldwood.com





From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Tue Sep  9 13:12:43 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:12:43 GMT
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
References: <bjk3mi$jorjb$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de><bjka05$jlrt2$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1063106894.20701.python-list@python.org> <bjkkjp$jvkvt$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f5e0963.369221532@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:54:41 +0200, "Martin Schneider"
<martin.schneider at illusion-factory.de> wrote:

> for i in range(len(fileList)-1):
>  for j in range(len(fileList)-i-1):
>   if fileList[j+1] < fileList[j]:
>    tmp = fileList[j]
>    fileList[j] = fileList[j+1]
>    fileList[j+1] = tmp

I think you might tweak that by doing:

fileList[j],fileList[j+1] = fileList[j+1],fileList[j]

which misses out the intermediate tmp assignment.
If you are gonna tweak the C you might as well tweak the 
Python too! (But not with a real python, they tweak back 
hard! :-)

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep 16 15:02:58 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 20:02:58 +0100
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <877k48y2sd.fsf@pobox.com>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> writes:

> Can anybody explain this:
> 
> Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information
> >>> None = 3
> <stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
> >>> False = 4
> >>> True = 5
> >>>
> >>> None, False, True
> (3, 4, 5)

I believe there have been discussions about preventing the clobbering
of builtins recently, so it may happen in the future (2.4?).

Dunno why None and not True / False causes a warning, but you can turn
warnings into errors using the warnings framework, I think.


John



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Sep  4 02:41:40 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 06:41:40 GMT
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <3f56de81.372851401@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:00:45 -0600, Jules Dubois
<bogus at invalid.tld> wrote:

> (3), and Smalltalk (1); Thursday's vote will be between Java and Python.  I
> get the opportunity to learn one or the other in a week.

If you picked Jython you could all be happy! :-)

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From lefevrol at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 11 11:24:46 2003
From: lefevrol at yahoo.com (Olivier Lefevre)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 08:24:46 -0700
Subject: Invisible function attributes
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com> <87he3tfopa.fsf@pobox.com> <51809ae4.0309040627.28d7a075@posting.google.com> <2n16b.18138$hE5.641055@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <51809ae4.0309110724.7b5f044@posting.google.com>

> Python has no declarations, only executable statements.

I think this was the key to my confusion in this case.

> >>> bar(4) 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> TypeError: 'int' object has only read-only attributes (assign to .a)

The way I read this, it says that a was bound to the name foo, 
not to the function foo stood for at the time of that function's
definition; you are saying as much. Thus "foo.a" has to be looked
up and resolved anew for each call. This must be costly. Why was
it done this way?

OTOH I read the func attr PEP and it says that they are
implemented via a dict inside the function object. If so,
shouldn't they be bound to the function object rather than
to its name?? Or is func_dict itself an attribute?

-- O.L.



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Sep 17 09:50:00 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 14:50:00 +0100
Subject: How to make URLLIB .urlopen(url1) .urlopen(url2) session related ?
References: <8f41cfd.0309130423.22054528@posting.google.com> <3F631C0C.2AAA08CF@engcorp.com> <87vfrw9u23.fsf@pobox.com> <Xns93F62417D43ADJanC@213.118.75.228> <8f41cfd.0309170440.caa80ff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87oexjzfqv.fsf@pobox.com>

xucs007 at yahoo.com (Xu, C.S.) writes:

> ClientCookie works great with ebay, and a few other sites I'm interested.
> 
> I'd like to donate a few bucks for the author to buy several cups of
> coffee during writing more interesting python modules. Where should I
> send the money to? Paypal, or check?
[...]

Rest assured my postal address will quickly find its way to you!  :-))


John



From tim at worthy.demon.co.uk  Wed Sep 24 02:58:26 2003
From: tim at worthy.demon.co.uk (Tim Howarth)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:58:26 +0100
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <09a3d6364c.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk>

In message <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852 at newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
          "Andrew Chalk" <achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote:

> In a Python script running under CGI, can I programatically redirect the
> program to another page.

Do you mean redirect the client browser ?

> Assume that I have a static HTML page that I want displayed (e.g.
> index.htm). Other than 'print ...' is there any way to redirect to this
> URL (for example, like Response.Redirect() in ASP)?

Assuming you mean not to print the whole page, when you say "Other than
'print ...'" then;

print "Location: http:abcxyz.index.html"

AFAIUI it simply sends a redirect header.

-- 
___
 |im    ---- ARM Powered ----



From grante at visi.com  Thu Sep 25 22:54:19 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 02:54:19 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnap4tni.18h.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f at posting.google.com>, Stephen Ferg wrote:

> When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
> character?

Sometime prior to 1983.  DOS has always accepted it, and I assume Windows
always has as well.

> At one time, it was accepted as a truism that Windows (like MS-DOS)
> was different from Unix because Windows used the backslash as the path
> separator character,

Accepted as a truism by whom?  DOS would accept either.  The shell's "switch"
character was configurable as well -- it defaulted to '/' but changing it to
'-' was trivial.

> whereas Unix used the forward slash.

> But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this
> is a myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward
> or the backward slash as a pathname separator.

I don't remember if the actual DOS system calls accepted '/' or if the C
library translated.  I do know that DOS C programs could use '/' for path
separator at least 20 years ago.

> I hypothesize that originally Windows accepted only the backslash, and then
> at some time it changed to accept the forward slash as well.

Nope.  AFAIK, it's always accepted '/'.  I did C programming on DOS for
years, and I always used '/' since it was too error working with string
literals in C that contain '\'.  Those same programs seemed to run fine
under Windows.

> Does anyone know when that change occurred?  Was it with the introduction of
> support for long filenames in NT and Win95?

I'm not aware that there has ever been a "change".  '/' has been OK since
the early DOS days.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  WHOA!! Ken and
                                  at               Barbie are having TOO
                               visi.com            MUCH FUN!! It must be the
                                                   NEGATIVE IONS!!



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 30 09:47:15 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:47:15 GMT
Subject: Prime number module
References: <Xns9405ABFC8A4D3dagvelvetnet@195.67.237.51> <7b4hnvgplqk6g1d5vig0dsdvic1ru62r4e@4ax.com> <R1Je/kKkXcId092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1064870619.795.python-list@python.org> <OD3eb.9152$gi2.1152@fed1read01>
Message-ID: <DPfeb.196852$R32.6326859@news2.tin.it>

Tim Hochberg wrote:
   ...
> I believe you could implement a hybrid scheme that would be quite fast
> and still maintain nearly the same level of compression that you
> describe above. In addition to the above compressed data, also store,
> uncompressed, every Nth prime. A binary search will get you within N
> primes of your answer, to find the exact value, recreate those N-primes.
> For a N of, for instance, 64 the level of compression would be minimally
> affected but should make finding the number of primes less than a given
> number number much faster than the basic compressed scheme.

Still thinking of gmpy's primitives, I came up with a variant of this...:

import gmpy
import array
import bisect

highest_number_of_interest = gmpy.mpz(100*1000*1000)

def make_primes(put_them_here, every=1000):
    current_prime = gmpy.mpz(put_them_here[-1])
    count = 0
    while current_prime < highest_number_of_interest:
        current_prime = current_prime.next_prime()
        count += 1
        if count == every:
            put_them_here.append(int(current_prime))
            count = 0

try:
    savefile = open('primes.dat', 'rb')
except:
    every_1000th_prime = array.array('l', [1])
    make_primes(every_1000th_prime)
    savefile = open('primes.dat', 'wb')
    every_1000th_prime.tofile(savefile)
    savefile.close()
else:
    every_1000th_prime = array.array('l', [])
    try: every_1000th_prime.fromfile(savefile, 6000)
    except EOFError: pass
    else:
        warnings.warn("Only %d primes (?)" % len(every_1000th_prime))
        warnings.warn("Highest is %d" % every_1000th_prime[-1])
        # could fill out and re-save the array here, if needed
    savefile.close()

print "%d primes stored (1 every 1000), highest is %d" % (
    len(every_1000th_prime), every_1000th_prime[-1])

def nth_prime(N):
    N_div_1000, N_mod_1000 = divmod(N, 1000)
    try: prime = every_1000th_prime[N_div_1000]
    except IndexError:
        raise ValueError, "must be N<%d" %
(1000*len(every_1000th_prime)+999)
    prime = gmpy.mpz(prime)
    for x in xrange(N_mod_1000):
        prime = prime.next_prime()
    return int(prime)

print "55555th prime is", nth_prime(55555)

import bisect
def primes_upto(N):
    if N>highest_number_of_interest:
        raise ValueError, "must be N<%d" % highest_number_of_interest
    x = bisect.bisect_left(every_1000th_prime, N)
    if N == every_1000th_prime[x]: return x*1000+1
    prime = gmpy.mpz(every_1000th_prime[x-1])
    x = (x-1)*1000
    while prime < N:
        x += 1
        prime = prime.next_prime()
    if prime == N: x += 1
    return x

print "Up to 555555, there are %d primes" % primes_upto(555555)


The first run, building the file primes.dat (just 23048 bytes), took
almost 7 minutes elapsed time on my machine (250 CPU seconds).  But
any successive run is extremely fast:

[alex at lancelot perex]$ time python -O prio.py
5762 primes stored (1 every 1000), highest is 99991609
55555th prime is 686671
Up to 555555, there are 45741 primes
0.06user 0.00system 0:00.14elapsed 41%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (494major+297minor)pagefaults 0swaps
[alex at lancelot perex]$

I've coded this rapidly and sloppily, so I wouldn't be surprised if
there were off-by-one errors here and there (needs to be checked against
some other, independent way to generate/check primes!), but I think the
fundamental ideas are sound.


Alex




From stuff at slinkp.com  Tue Sep 16 17:25:16 2003
From: stuff at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 14:25:16 -0700
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063374595.21980.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f575e202.0309161325.7525552c@posting.google.com>

vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in wrote in message news:<mailman.1063374595.21980.python-list at python.org>...
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 06:09:02AM -0700, Ubaidullah Nubar wrote:
(snip)
> > 4. What types of applications are not suitable to be written in
> > Python?
> > 
> 
> System side softwares

I don't know what "system side softwares" means...

The one real drawback that comes up a lot when discussing python is
speed, since it's quite a lot slower than C.

Usually that's actually not a problem. When speed matters, good
results can be had by A) profiling and fixing your algorithms, B)
using psyco, C) replacing slow pure-python stuff with third-party C
extensions, D) replacing any remaining slow pure-python slow stuff
with your own C extensions.

However, there is at least one case when that's not likely to be
enough. An application that has critical realtime deadlines should
probably not have the python interpreter running in the realtime part.
 Example, realtime DSP. Say you're processing audio in a live
performance setting. If the interpreter decides to do a bunch of
garbage collection or otherwise slows down for a moment, you could
easily miss a deadline and get very nasty dropouts in the output.

Even in this case, python can be a useful part of the application as
long as the interpreter is kept away from the time-sensitive parts of
the app.
Here's a REALLY cool project with a C DSP engine controlled by the
movement of physical objects whose movements are detected and refleted
by a Python / OpenGL UI:
http://web.media.mit.edu/~jpatten/newaudiopad.html



From p.useldinger at myrealbox.com  Thu Sep 11 14:20:22 2003
From: p.useldinger at myrealbox.com (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:20:22 +0200
Subject: mod_python installation
Message-ID: <kue1mv4fer2lncl8r17q2vmhi30drvme2k@4ax.com>

Hi,
I have the following configuration:

- Apache 2.0.47 (win32)
- mod_python 3.0.3 win32
- python 2.3

I have added the loadModule command for mod_python: "LoadModule
python_module modules/mod_python.so", and the file is there.

Apache won't start anymore. No error message is in Apache's log file.
Uncommenting the loadModule command makes apache start correctly.

Where can I get more information regarding the origin of the problem?

-PU



From rjc at tampabay.rr.com  Thu Sep 25 09:38:05 2003
From: rjc at tampabay.rr.com (Robert Clayton)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:38:05 GMT
Subject: Packages and PyKyra
Message-ID: <1dCcb.11020$Of2.520042@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

In the PyKyra example programs what does the statement:

"from PyKyra import *"

I now assume that this represents a Package hierarchy and not the file
"PyKyra.py" as there is none but for Windows 2000 I am unable to determine
whereor how  the path is represented (registry, environment, etc.).  Any
suggestions?

Thanks,

Bob





From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Mon Sep  1 01:33:17 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 01:33:17 -0400
Subject: artificial intelligence
Message-ID: <000501c3704a$8c58da70$0c02a8c0@Arts>

>Maybe there was some notice about using Python in
>geophysic and the symposium book in one journal, so there was a sudden
>spat of, say, three people who bought both.

You would think the parameter for a statistically significant sample size
would be a fundamental concept in this kind of thing. And no action taken
before one was determined to exist.

OTOH, the concept of "coincidence" must necessarily be ruled out in AI, I
would think.

*Our* intelligence seems to give us a read as to where on the bell curve a
particular event may lie, or a least some sense of when we are at an extreme
on the curve.  Which we call coincidence. AI would probably have a
particularly difficult time with this concept - it seems to me.

Spam filtering software must need to tackle these kinds of issues.

Art





From essai1 at mci.local  Sat Sep  6 04:17:57 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:17:57 +0200
Subject: just curious
References: <rnd6b.904924$ro6.18233500@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <bjc58j$tqj$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

In
     def g(a,b):
         a=a+b

a new object "a" is create ; but it's a local object, who are not the "a"
global.
In python, variables are "pointer to object".

If you try :
     def g(a,b):
         global a
         a=a+b
You obtain :   "name 'a' is global and local"

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau





From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Sep 23 01:44:58 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:44:58 +0200
Subject: Mailbox cleaner on an IMAP basis?
References: <3f6f2cfb@news.swissonline.ch> <vmuhsrr68tlj27@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f6fdd8e@news.swissonline.ch>

Well, John,

I've stopped here, because I could not figure out how to get at the ids of
mails with attachments. And if I had that missing link, I'd run into the
next hindrance: How can I delete a single message? IMAP4::delete() deletes a
whole mailbox, not just a single mail.

So my code really is only a few lines so far:

i = IMAP4(myDomain)
i.login(myUser, myPassword)
i.select() # Select INBOX
r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS])") # Check 1st mail

Seems I have to get a book about IMAP and how to use it...

Kind regards
Franz




"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:vmuhsrr68tlj27 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
> news:3f6f2cfb at news.swissonline.ch...
> > Hi all!
> >
> > As I saw Alex Martelli's post about a mbox cleaner based on POP3, I
> thought,
> > it could be possible to do that based on IMAP too. That way I could ask
> the
> > server for mails having attached EXE files and delete all those mails on
> the
> > server. This would save me a lot of traffic over my phone line
connection.
> >
> > But I'm missing one important thing: How do I get the server to tell me
> > about attachments.
> >
> > What I've found out so far is how to get at the fields:
> >
> > r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS])")
> >
> > Alas, there's no such thing like 'filename' or 'attachments'.
> >
> > And
> >
> > r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (Content-type)])")
> >
> > doesn't show a file name either.
> >
> > Any hints?
>
> Right now, I'd simply like something that would clean out an
> IMAP mailbox on a regular basis. Most of the worm generated
> garbage is going into one of two boxes on my server, and I get maybe
> one legitimate e-mail in those two boxes every couple of weeks.
> I can stand to lose that level of e-mail, I can't stand to exceed my disk
> quota and lose lots of legitimate mail every few hours.
>
> Could you post the code you've got so far?
>
> Thanks.
>
> John Roth
> >
> > Best regards
> > Franz GEIGER
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>





From edho at nospam.stanford.edu  Tue Sep  2 02:19:13 2003
From: edho at nospam.stanford.edu (Edmond Ho)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 23:19:13 -0700
Subject: curses! trouble with pads and panels
Message-ID: <bj1cp2$ctr$1@news.Stanford.EDU>

Hi, I'm having trouble with a small curses program. I'm associate a pad with
a panel. As I understand, a pad is supposed to be just a window with an
arbitrary size. That seems to imply that a pad can be treated like a normal
window when working with panels. I have this code:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import curses
import curses.panel

curses.initscr()
curses.cbreak()
curses.noecho()

pad = curses.newpad(100, 100)
win = curses.newwin(1, 80, 0, 0)

padp = curses.panel.new_panel(pad)
winp = curses.panel.new_panel(win)

curses.panel.update_panels()
curses.doupdate()

pad.getch()
curses.endwin()

If you comment out the line 13 (where padp is declared), the program is
fine, albeit useless. But with the line 13, I get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "pad.py", line 13, in ?
padp = curses.panel.new_panel(pad)
_curses_panel.error: curses function returned NULL

So, what am I doing wrong?

cheers, ed





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep 19 15:43:03 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:43:03 -0400
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
References: <mailman.1063995987.26144.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vmmn2u51gliad1@news.supernews.com>

<python at sarcastic-horse.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063995987.26144.python-list at python.org...
> Hi-
>
>
> I need to make a class for quartlerly dates.  I need to be able to compare
> two quarterly dates and get the number of quarters between them.  For
> example:
>
> >>> 2001q1 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=1)
> >>> 2001q4 = qDate(year=2001, quarter=4)
> >>> 2001q4 - 2001q1
> 3
>
> The only problem is that I have no idea how to override operators in
> python.  Can anyone give me a few trivial examples of how it is done?

Operators are special methods that start and end with two underscores.
Look in either the library or the language manual; you'll find all you need
to know there. For example, generic compares use the __cmp__()
method. There are also extended compares.


> And, on a completely unrelated note, I am getting a truly amazing amount
> of spam today.  Anyone else?

A new mass mailer worm hit the net at about 9:00 PM EST last night
(at least, that's when I started getting the spam from it.) It seems to be
using a really old hole in Windows, meaning that if you've kept up to date
with your patches, you should be safe from infection. At least, that's
the information I have to date. I put my "junk" folder on auto delete
to protect my mailbox, and that's it.

Also of note is that one of the addresses in the header *isn't* spoofed,
so there's a clear back track to the infected machines. I haven't
verified this myself, though.

John Roth
>
>
> Thanks for the help.
>





From tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr  Mon Sep 15 03:58:50 2003
From: tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr (Anthony McDonald)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:58:50 +0200
Subject: problems with threaded socket app
References: <pan.2003.09.14.23.17.52.205571@dragonsdawn.net>
Message-ID: <3f656f76$0$20942$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

"Gordon Messmer" <gordon at dragonsdawn.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.14.23.17.52.205571 at dragonsdawn.net...
> I've been working on a threaded daemon application to filter email.  The
> source for the program is here:
>
>
http://phantom.dragonsdawn.net/~gordon/courier-patches/courier-pythonfilter/
>
> The daemon loads individual filters as modules and hands the names of the
> message and control files to each module in turn for processing.  One of
> the modules (filters/dialback.py) checks the address of the sender,
> connects to the MX servers for the senders domain, and validates that the
> sender address is valid. In order to implement a timeout on the dialback,
> each message is processed by two threads.  The first thread creates an
> SMTP object and then starts a second thread to do the lookup using that
> SMTP object.  If the lookup takes too long, the first thread closes the
> SMTP object's socket and collects the failure from the second thread.
>
> During testing, that all works fine.  However, in real world use, the
> program eventually deadlocks.  When it does so, there are several dialback
> threads in process, and the first of each pair seems to be reading from
> the status pipe.  I cannot connect a debugger to the second of the pair to
> see what state it's in.
>
> I'm running this application on python2-2.2.2-11.7.3 under Red Hat Linux
> 7.3.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for where I can start looking for the
> problem?
>

        if rpipe not in ready_pipes[0]:
            # Time to cancel this SMTP conversation
            smtpi.close()
            # The dialback thread will now write a failure message to
            # its status pipe, and we'll need to clear that out.
            os.read( rpipe, 1024 )
            continue

The code creates a "race" condition. To work correctly it requires the
worker thread to raise and handle an exception, and to write that result
onto the pipe BEFORE your main thread attempts to read the pipe.

If the worker thread loses the race, the next MX result you process will
recieve the last MX's results 400 error code, and your left with 1 thread at
the end of the sequence which can't terminate as it stays active until what
its written to the pipe is read from the pipe.

Simple enough to fix, just add a select call between closing the SMTP
connection and reading the expected 400 error response.

Anthony McDonald





From edreamleo at charter.net  Tue Sep 30 04:29:27 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:29:27 -0500
Subject: A startup puzzle
References: <vngnif6v8ip4c6@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1064869656.24850.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vnifnd7tu5rj44@corp.supernews.com>

> Fair enough, but it's not just a matter of style... using something like
>
>    import leoGlobals as g
>
> would probably have avoided this problem...

True!  However, I must then change every reference x to a function in
leoGlobals to g.x.  This is what I want to avoid.  Being able to go from
app().x to app.x is a very small improvement: I want to avoid a
corresponding very small step backwards.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From tanzer at swing.co.at  Fri Sep 19 03:18:40 2003
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:18:40 +0200
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:40:11 EDT."
             <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <E1A0FXM-0007pQ-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Alan Kennedy wrote:
> >
> > Peter Hansen wrote:
> > > Key phrase: "Metaobject protocols are interfaces to the language
> > > that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> > > behavior and implementation...".  Near as I can tell, part of the
> > > whole character of Python is that a user *cannot* do either of
> > > those things.
> >
> > Hmm, does this rephrasing hold any truth?
> >
> > "Metaclasses are interfaces to the python language
> > that give users the ability to incrementally modify the language's
> > behavior and implementation...".
> >
> > Isn't modifying standard behaviour the whole purpose of metaclasses?
>
> But it doesn't really modify the *language's* behaviour in the way
> implied by a simplistic reading of the above phrase.  That is, the
> "obvious" interpretation is that syntax and grammar are being affected,
> not just the behaviour of one small slice of the language, specifically
> how classes behave.  In some languages the two things are not so
> separate, but in Python they seem to be.

Are you sure?

Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun 18 2003, 15:54:07)
[GCC 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class Nasty(type) :
...   def __new__(cls,name,bases,d):
...     return 1
...
>>> class Surprise(object):
...   __metaclass__ = Nasty
...
>>> Surprise
1
>>> type(_)
<type 'int'>
>>>

Ducks-and-runs,

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at





From jim-usenet at jimdabell.com  Wed Sep  3 11:04:02 2003
From: jim-usenet at jimdabell.com (Jim Dabell)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:04:02 +0100
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com> <vqOdnRuMAaBofMiiRVn-hg@giganews.com> <Gtmdnc6WsOhQaciiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <-aOdndgss-MVnsuiRVn-vg@giganews.com>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:40:48 +0100,
> Jim Dabell <jim-usenet at jimdabell.com> wrote:
>> If it's too much, buy it second-hand.  It's a good book, and although
>> plenty of it is just common sense, it's the type of common sense that's
>> easy to miss :)
> 
> Isn't it mostly concerned with C, though?

Ah, forgot which group I was in for a minute :).

It does give plenty of examples in C, and a lot of the issues discussed
don't apply to Python, but then again, there are plenty that are universal,
like good coding habits, project management, and so on.


>  McConnell's _Rapid Development_ is pretty good, though, and examined the
> development process more than language-related things.

In a similar vein, if you want to focus on the project management side,
Peopleware and the Mythical Man-Month are good reads, and if it's more
software architecture you are after, then go for Design Patterns,
Refactoring or Antipatterns.


-- 
Jim Dabell




From tad at tadland.net  Mon Sep  8 23:34:12 2003
From: tad at tadland.net (Tad Marko)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 20:34:12 -0700
Subject: PyGTK and fonts
Message-ID: <f5c5dc88.0309081934.76f17ec2@posting.google.com>

Howdy!

I'm pretty new to both Python and PyGTK (about 10 hours at this
point), so please forgive me if this question has already been
answered somewhere. Basically, I've got a small program with a
GtkTextView and I'd like to change the font to a monospaced font.
Preferably the default monspace font for Gnome 2. Can anyone show me
the steps necessary to programatically change the font on the text
view?

Thanks for any help!

Tad



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Sun Sep 21 18:29:08 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:29:08 -0400
Subject: Server-side programming
References: <HAMab.1175$1l5.436@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3F6DCCEA.763D17C6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <qnk4qz56aiz.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Timo Virkkala wrote:
>> I'm creating a system with Python CGIs, that connect to a database. I'm
>> wondering about input validation. Of course I will check the length of
>> the passed parameters, to (hopefully) prevent any DOS attacks. What else
>> do I need to check? Do I need to remove any SQL from the inputs?
>> Anything else I might have overlooked?
>
> You might not need to remove SQL from your field values. Doing so
> would probably be a non-trivial string parsing exercise.
>
> Most "SQL injection" attacks would be where a cracker hopes that you
> are going to embed the contents of "username" and "password" fields
> right into a string containing an SQL query, like so
>
> mySQLString = """
> select  *
> from    users
> where   uname = "%s" and password = "%s"
> """ % (username, password)
>
> If the query returns a non-zero number of rows, then that
> username/password combination is deemed to be valid.
>
[snipped useful info on doing SQL injections]
> AFAIK, the most effective way to prevent such attacks is to disable
> any quote characters that may be present in the password, so that they
> are treated as a part of the password string, not as delimiters in the
> SQL query string. For example
>
> import re
> password = re.escape(password)
>
> Which for the values given above would now give an SQL query of
>
> select  *
> from    users
> where   uname = "alan" and password = "\"\ or\ 0\=0\ or\ password\=\""
>
> Does anyone know of a more effective approach to preventing SQL
> injection attacks?

The problem is you're trying to create the entire query string. This
means that *you* must be sure what is valid and what's invalid; what
needs quoting, and what doesn't. Are you sure the above using
re.escape will work properly for SQL queries, since it was designed
for regular expressions? Are all corner cases covered? etc.

The best way to do this is to allow the database module to do the
quoting; this is explicictly supported by Python's DB-API v2
specificiation (available as PEP 246 [1]). Most (if not all that
you'll probably use...) database modules for python conform to this.

Here's a concrete example using PySQLite: [untested code]

import sqlite
db = sqlite.connect('database.db')
cursor = db.cursor()

cursor.execute('''select * from users
                  where uname = %(uname)s and
                  password = %(password)s''',
               {'uname' : uname, 'password' : password})

row = cursor.fetchone()
if row is None:
   print "Access denied"

Note how the parameters are passed as separate arguments to
cursor.execute; the sqlite module takes care of escaping them. Note
that not all database modules support this style of quoting; check out
PEP 249 and the documentation of your specific module.

[1] http://python.org/peps/pep-0249.html

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From hjwidmaier at web.de  Wed Sep 17 06:51:34 2003
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 03:51:34 -0700
Subject: testing the data-type of a stream
References: <m3ad94ax53.fsf@moroni.pp.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <6e990e29.0309170251.27ed85de@posting.google.com>

David Bear <david.bear at asu.edu> wrote in message news:<m3ad94ax53.fsf at moroni.pp.asu.edu>...
> I'm writing a filter and would like to be able to do what the Linux
> 'file' command does, i.e. look at a couple of bytes to see what kind of
> data I'm dealing with, the branch based on the type. 
> [...]
> any recommendations?

You might want to take a look at 'magic'
http://www.demonseed.net/~jp/code/magic.py> Reading a few bytes from a
file and passing them on is considered trivial and left as an
exercise. ;-)

Hans-J.



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Sep 21 14:13:47 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:13:47 -0700
Subject: None???
References: <EV6bb.1834$iT4.1283814@news1.news.adelphia.net> <m2he37549i.fsf@host-201.null.null.bellsouth.net> <3F6D68AA.9070603@aon.at>
Message-ID: <eppstein-AAC3F1.11134721092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3F6D68AA.9070603 at aon.at>, Gregor Lingl <glingl at aon.at> 
wrote:

> >>def compute(income, percent):
> >>    result = income*percent/100
> >>    print result
> > 
> Additionally please notice, that your program will produce
> incorrect and probably at first irritating results:
...
> This comes from using integer-constants together with
> inputting integers, which causes the /-operator to
> perform integer division.

Arguably, any code that uses / with integer arguments is now buggy, 
because it will produce different results in different Python versions.  
You should either use // (integer division) or force floating point 
division (e.g. by changing the expression to income*percent/100.0).

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From creedy at mitretek.org  Thu Sep 25 17:20:17 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:20:17 -0400
Subject: Fastest way to get thousands of db records to client in 3 tier?
In-Reply-To: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
References: <Zr7cb.30579$uJ2.4877@fe3.columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f735cb8$1_6@corp.newsgroups.com>

R. Alan Monroe wrote:

> Subject says it all... what's the fastest way to get many thousands of 
> records to the client?
> 
> I'm trying to sketch out a traditional 3 tier client-server system. 
> Multiple clients would make requests to the server. The server should 
> execute sql select commands against a server-side database, then 
> return the results to the client.
> 
> I tried the standard xmlrpclib and SimpleXMLRPCServer tools that came 
> with Python. I liked the simplicity, but it was about 30-35 times 
> slower than executing the sql directly from the client...
> 
> I intend to write both client and server in Python, and my main goal 
> in the first cut is speed. Suggestions?
> 
> Alan

I suspect that it will be difficult for you to match the speed of using 
sql to do direct record retrieval from the client. People who build 
databases spend a lot of time and effort making this work as fast as 
they can because of its impact on overall database performance.

My suggestion: You need to think harder about your performance versus 
functionality trade-offs. E.g., if you're not moving too many records 
and the server isn't heavily used, you shouldn't care about the extra 
overhead.

On the other hand, if you're moving a lot of records _and_ the server is 
heavily used, then you're trying for bleeding edge performance and you 
should either expect to spend a lot of time making ugly compromises in 
order to meet your requirements or to spend money buying a bigger server 
and more communications bandwidth.

   Chris



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



From davecook at nowhere.net  Wed Sep 17 07:25:04 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:25:04 GMT
Subject: GTK help
References: <mailman.1063791923.14796.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kwX9b.24459$8g2.13678@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <mailman.1063791923.14796.python-list at python.org>, ads wrote:

> I use PYGTK 2.0.0 for python 2.3 and GTK Runtime 2.2.4 under windows98

It's works here under win98 with python 2.2, pygtk 1.9.16 and Tor
Lindquist's 2.2.3 package.  So maybe there's an issue with python2.3 and the
latest version of pygtk.

I suggest posting the problem to the pygtk mailing list, or making a bug
report at bugzilla.gnome.org:

http://www.daa.com.au/mailman/listinfo/pygtk
http://tinyurl.com/nnsn

Dave Cook






From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Mon Sep 15 15:08:39 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 12:08:39 -0700
Subject: Win32 Com + ADO: How to compare the result of a recordset to 'nothing'
References: <tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0309151108.5597753d@posting.google.com>

"Felix McAllister" <felix_mcallister at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500 at news.indigo.ie>...
> Hi,
> When using win32com.client, how do you test for a 'nothing' com object as you can in VB? I have an example here when using ADO to loop over multiple recordsets returned from a query. I get the following error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\dev\python\MySamples\dbtest.py", line 14, in ?
>     rs.MoveFirst()
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 460, in __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: <unknown>.MoveFirst
> 
> I'm assuming that after the result of rs.NextRecordSet is invalid somehow (it shouldn't be, BTW, as a similar loop runs fine in VB). 
> 
> In Perl, I'd just use : if (defined($rs)....
> 
> Any help appreciated,
> 
> Felix.
> 
> The code is as follows:
> ###########################3 
> import win32com.client
> conn = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Connection")
> conn.ConnectionString = "Driver={SQL Server};Server=(local);Database=Test;Trusted_Connection=yes;"
> conn.Open()
> rs = conn.Execute("TestSPXML")[0]
> xmlString = ""
> while rs != None:
>     rs.MoveFirst()    # FAILS HERE ON THE SECOND ITERATION OF THE LOOP
>     while not rs.EOF:
>         xmlString = xmlString + rs.Fields[0].Value
>         rs.MoveNext()
>     rs = rs.NextRecordSet()
> print xmlString
> conn.Close()

Recordsets have a .BOF property that is similar to .EOF, but indicates
that your cursor is before the first record.  If both .BOF and .EOF
are true, you have a null recordset.  So something like:

if not(rst.BOF and rst.EOF):
    rst.MoveFirst()

should work.



From bh at intevation.de  Mon Sep 29 08:48:54 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 14:48:54 +0200
Subject: extension call backs and the GIL
References: <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <bl93hp$mgc$1@panix3.panix.com>
 <OWWCyJAWcCe$EwUM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6q4qyvep55.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

>>You need to reacquire the GIL prior to making the callback.
> So does calling an extension release the GIL?

No. It would be very inconvenient if it did because what most functions
do first is to call one of the PyArg_ParseTuple functions which could
execute arbitrary python code.

I think it would help if you described a bit more what the actual
problem is or what the user does. 

I looked briefly at the sources and assuming tha the accelerator in
question is lib/_rl_accel.c and the callback whatever has been assigned
to _SWRecover, could it be that the problem is that your user tries to
use different callbacks in different threads? _SWRecover is a global
after all and shared by all threads.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/



From p-abel at t-online.de  Thu Sep 11 15:35:03 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 12:35:03 -0700
Subject: Debug python programs
References: <bjpn2s$8bh$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <mailman.1063284197.17837.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0309111135.65b01408@posting.google.com>

Jeremy Jones <zanesdad at bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063284197.17837.python-list at python.org>...
> * York (yorklee70 at yahoo.com) wrote:
> > Hi, anybody,
> > 
> > Would you please recommend some good softwares/methods for 
> > tracking/debugging python codes.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > York
> 
> You've got lots of options.
> 
> 1) Your standard insertion of "print" statements throughout the code.  A
> lot of times, this is good enough to get the job done.  I typically set an
> instance variable named DEBUG for each class that I create (in __init__,
> set self.DEBUG = 0 or 1).  Then I have lots of
> if self.DEBUG:
>     print "whatever" #insert debug statements here
> It's not the most elegant thing, but man, has it come in handy when you
> don't need a full-blown debugger.  (Segue into number 2)
> 
> 2) Python comes with a pretty good debugger built in.  Here are the docs:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-pdb.html
> 
> 3) pychecker.  I know, I know, I know - it's not a debugger.  But if you
> point it at your code, it'll inspect it and can help you uncover some
> mistakes that can bite you in the rear.
> 
> 4)  trace.py.  Never used it, but it's in the standard distribution now
> under Tools/scripts.  (I'm including this line item since you mentioned
> "tracking".  I guess this is what you mean?)
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> Jeremy Jones

Try boa:
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/

At the moment it is 
"Project of the month: Boa Constructor" at
http://sourceforge.net/potm/potm-2003-08.php

Regards
Peter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep  9 19:33:45 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:33:45 -0400
Subject: virtual inner classes in python?
References: <opru86ohov5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F5E54DF.8ED73922@engcorp.com> <opru88weos5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>
Message-ID: <vlsoqm41sppif9@news.supernews.com>

"kasper graversen" <kbilsted at hotmail.lala.com> wrote in message
news:opru88weos5j9jb9 at news.tiscali.dk...
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:31:59 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:
>
>
> now, since you are confused(?) with my code posting, how should I go about
> posting python code the next time I want to do so?

Use spaces, not tabs. A fairly large number of newsreaders do not
handle tabs correctly. The general python recommendation is to always
use spaces for indentation, never tabs and absolutely never mixtures of
spaces and tabs. Most python aware editors can be set up to use spaces
conveniently.

John Roth
>
> -kasper





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Sep 17 10:17:56 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:17:56 -0400
Subject: why pass statement?
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bk9oel$4mu$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <keCdnSUuqPKI8PWiXTWJhg@comcast.com>

"JCM" <joshway_without_spam at myway.mathworks.com> wrote in message
news:bk9oel$4mu$1 at ginger.mathworks.com...
> M-a-S <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Why is there the pass statement? I think, the expression statement
would be enough:
>
> > class C:
> >     None
>
> > while True:
> >     None
>
> Because emacs python-mode knows to dedent the next line after a pass
:)

Nice.

pass is the guaranteed-to-do-nothing identity statement (function
operating on the interpreter state).  def f(): pass generates a
*miminal* function object with a *minimal* code object.  This is at
least potentially useful for testing or investigating the
implementation.  The alternative of an expression statement adds code
to the code body.  The alternative of a doc string generates a string
object attached somewhere to the no-longer-minimal function or code
object.  Indeed, the way to test the effect of either alternative is
to start with the minimum and then define f2 and look for the
difference -- as one of the earlier posters in this thread did do
(using dis module to 'look') for the None expression.

Terry J. Reedy






From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Sep 17 10:52:59 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:52:59 -0400
Subject: Graphic python debugger
References: <20030917120146.3c5202e2.max@fr.fm>
Message-ID: <vmgtbe70t1nm5c@news.supernews.com>

"Maxime Biais" <max at fr.fm> wrote in message
news:20030917120146.3c5202e2.max at fr.fm...
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for a graphic debugger for python on linux like DDD or GVD.
> I tried pdb and pdb-mode for emacs, but I would use a more gvd-like
> debugger.

>From the description:

GNU DDD is a graphical front-end for command-line debuggers such as GDB,
DBX, WDB, Ladebug, JDB, XDB, the Perl debugger, or the Python debugger.
                                                ^^^^^^

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Maxime Biais





From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Thu Sep  4 12:24:58 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 18:24:58 +0200
Subject: basic language question
Message-ID: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Once in a while, I get bitten by the fact, that mutating list methods such
as 'append' or 'extend' return None instead of the (mutated) list itself.
Is there a compelling reason for that? I googled around, but didn't find
anything about this.
Thanks

Stephan



From bogus at invalid.tld  Tue Sep 23 01:22:44 2003
From: bogus at invalid.tld (Jules Dubois)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:22:44 -0600
Subject: "Protected" property in Python?
Message-ID: <1rgll5pslncci.1iu0qs9ekf45q.dlg@40tude.net>

I'm want to create a superclass with nothing but attributes and properties.
Some of the subclasses will do nothing but provide values for the
attributes.  

(I'd also like to make sure (1) that the subclass provides actual values
for the attributes and (2) that no "client" module adds or removes
attributes or properties, but I don't know how to do those.)

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong, or maybe what I want to do is
impossible.  Here's a stripped down version of the code:

----------------------------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python
class SuperClass(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.__statusCode = "value bound in SUPERCLASS"
    getStatusCode = property(lambda self: self.__statusCode)

class SubClass(SuperClass):
    def __init__(self):
#        SuperClass.__init__(self)
        self.__statusCode = "value bound in SUBCLASS"

if __name__ == "__main__":
    s = SubClass()
    print s.getStatusCode
----------------------------------------------------------------

If I run this program, I get an exception (output wrapped by hand):

  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "./xxx.py", line 14, in ?
      print s.getStatusCode
    File "./xxx.py", line 5, in <lambda>
      getStatusCode = property(lambda self: self.__statusCode)
  AttributeError: 'SubClass' object has no attribute \ 
          '_SuperClass__statusCode'

Why is the lambda function attempting to access the superclass' attribute
and not the subclass' attribute?  Can I make it not do that?

If I replace "__statusCode" with "_statusCode", the output is

  value bound in SUBCLASS

as I want.  However, "_statusCode" is then visible from the outside, as I
don't want.

Am I missing something about how Python works?

Is my problem more fundamental, like not understanding OO programming?

I'm able to RTFM if someone would provide a pointer.



From stephane at harobed.org  Mon Sep  1 18:28:41 2003
From: stephane at harobed.org (Harobed)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 00:28:41 +0200
Subject: error when xml.dom parse file encoded in ISO-8859-15
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.01.22.28.37.671624@harobed.org>

>> Harobed <stephane at harobed.org> writes:

>> I have a xml file encode in ISO-8859-15. When xml.dom parse this file, it
>> send this error : xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid
>> token): line 9, column 46
>> 
>> Line 9 content some accent char. I would like solve this error.
>You should correct the error in your XML file, by adding an xml header
>to it.
>Regards,
>Martin

I've adding this line <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> to my
xml file source. Now, the parser work perfectly.

Thanks you



From davecook at nowhere.net  Wed Sep 17 05:23:31 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:23:31 GMT
Subject: GTK help
References: <mailman.1063773682.29572.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nKV9b.24451$8g2.22668@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <mailman.1063773682.29572.python-list at python.org>, ads wrote:

> I need some help, whe trying to run some gtk examples, show below
> messages:
[...]
>     store = gtk.ListStore(StockItemInfo)
> TypeError: could not get typecode from object

> It show up when I run pygtk\examples\pygtk-demo\demos\stock_browser.py

Which versions of pygtk and gtk are you using?

Dave Cook



From ken at perfect-image.com  Wed Sep 17 10:50:19 2003
From: ken at perfect-image.com (Ken Godee)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:50:19 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
In-Reply-To: <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com>
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6874AB.9030301@perfect-image.com>

Lothar Scholz wrote:

> "John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message news:<3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk>...
> 
>>Hi
>>I would like to announce, for real this time, the release of BlackAdder
>>V1.0.0. We have just finished our weekly conference during which I was give
>>specific instructions by Shawn Gordon to make this announcement
>>
>>I have uploaded the demos to http://www.rygannon.com and to
>>http://www.totalrekall.co.uk
> 
> 
> How about a useable trial version instead of demos.
> 
> As long as i can't try it out for 30 days in real work (saving files)
> i will never consider buying it.

I downloaded the demo and as far as I can tell it's fully fuctional
Here's a quote from the opening screen......

"Thank you for trying out Black Adder.
This, demo, version is fully functional but can only be run for a short 
period of time. Please consider buying a copy - you will be supporting 
the development of a great tool!"

Just what you asked for I believe, "useable trial".
Saves files,etc. and works great, nice tool.










From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 24 14:31:13 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:31:13 -0400
Subject: pprint and ">>>"
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1064424387.28838.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F71E2F1.62CFB8D3@engcorp.com>

Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:
> 
> Sometimes, it is find of nice using:
> print >> my_file_object, my_variabels
> than using the standard f.write.
> However, it cannot be done with pprint.pprint.

I suspect you are looking for either the second argument to pprint(),
or pprint.pformat() instead.

   pprint.pprint(my_variables, my_file_object)

or 

   print >>my_file_object, pprint.pformat(my_variables)

-Peter



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Sep  8 09:31:49 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:31:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com> <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122> <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253> <3F5C7270.1020001@ghaering.de> <mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93F093815E0CDduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in
news:mailman.1063025195.15280.python-list at python.org: 

> That's a good start. I presume I need to use codecs.open(filename,
> mode[, encoding[, errors[, buffering]]]) to read the file. What is the
> actual value of the "encoding[" parameter for "Little-endian UTF-16
> Unicode character data, with CR line terminators"

Try:

 myFile = codecs.open(filename, "r", "utf16")

If the file starts with a UTF-16 marker (either little or big endian) it 
will be read correctly. If it doesn't start with either marker reading from 
it will throw a UnicodeError.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 22 06:57:41 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 11:57:41 +0100
Subject: Passing data out of a Sax parser
References: <fe5nmv0mno1ib23ifekntp3v3u2er5bstt@4ax.com> <SxNab.10403$BS5.7382@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <878yohajyc.fsf@pobox.com> <FMvbb.1967$gR1.320@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <87vfrlt7iy.fsf@pobox.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

> Me:
> > >     if name == "spam":
> > >         self.count += 1
> 
> John J. Lee:
> > Works, but integers aren't mutable.
> 
> I assume you refer to the snippet I posted above?
> 
> Since it works, I don't understand the need for
> your comment.
[...]

It was just a nit: you said (indirectly) that integers are mutable:


| Either that or have startDocument create the mutable object, as
[...]
|     self.count = 0
[...]
|         self.count += 1
[...]


John



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 09:59:43 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:59:43 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
Message-ID: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com>

I have in the past suggested that Python functions could use some kind
of modifier token for parameters to indicate pass-by-reference, so
that immutable items in particular could be modified (or more
accurately replaced) by the function, with that modification affecting
what the caller sees. In case I'm explaining this badly, here is how
Python currently works...

>>> def Inc(p) :
...   p += 1
...
>>> x = 1
>>> Inc(x)
>>> x
1

... and here is (roughly) what I'd like to be able to do...

>>> def Inc(ref p) :
...   p += 1
...
>>> x = 1
>>> Inc(x)
>>> x
2


There are good reasons why this is not supported in Python at present,
which have been explained to me in the past. However, I've been
learning C# just recently, and I've just been struck by a blinding
flash of the obvious. C# has a rather similar issue - some types are
'value types' (as opposed to 'reference types') and comparable to
immutables in Python in many ways, yet there is still a need (on
occasion) to pass them by reference. While C# has static typing and
could have done exactly the same thing as Pascal or as C++, it
actually did something different.

The C# solution uses a modifier keyword, but that keyword must be
specified in both the function definition *and* the call. For
instance...

...
public static void Inc (ref int p)
{
  p++;
}
...
int i = 1;

Inc (ref i);
...

The rationale for this in C#, I assume, is mostly about clarity and
maintainability - the caller can't be surprised when value type
parameters are changed in a function as he had to explicitly allow it.
It also allows both a by-reference and a by-value version of the same
function to be defined using overloading (though that seems much less
useful to me).

However, it occurred to me that this approach could also be used to
solve the main implementation problem with adding a call-by-reference
scheme to Python.

In Python, the compiler cannot adapt the calling convention to
different types of functions because it cannot refer back to the
declaration of the function at compile time - the function being
called is not always knowable until run-time (e.g. using a variable
can be assigned a function object, lambda can create anonymous
functions, etc). At first sight, it appears that supporting
call-by-reference would require a big run-time overhead as the
run-time engine queried the function object to determine which
parameters to pass by reference and to adapt the call appropriately.

Because the C# approach indicates which parameters are by reference in
the call, however, this overhead can be avoided - the compiler doesn't
need to refer to information in the declaration to determine which
parameters to pass by reference.

Basically, when a function or method is declared with 'ref' modifiers
on some parameters, Python could use a variant of the function type
which supports a new call mechanism and knows which parameters need to
be passed by reference. Similarly, when a call uses 'ref' modifiers,
Python can do a consistency check with the function type being called
and use the new call mechanism.

Performance with functions that don't use call-by-reference would be
unaffected...

1.  If a call with ref-modifiers is attempted on a non-ref function,
    this would be rejected in the same way as any attempted call
    on a non-callable object - the required behaviour wouldn't exist
    for conventional function objects.

2.  If a call without ref-modifiers is attempted on a function with
    ref modifiers, it would again be rejected as the new function
    type wouldn't support the required behaviour for conventional
    calls.

3.  A conventional call to a conventional function would operate
    exactly as it does now.

In short, only calls using call-by-reference would incur any overhead
(to validate that the correct parameters are by-reference or not, and
to implement the new calling convention).

Even that validation in the call overhead could probably be avoided
(by having a large number of function-class variants), leaving only
the implementation of the calling convention as a problem.

I would then be able to write...

>>> def Inc(ref p) :
...   p += 1
...
>>> x = 1
>>> Inc(ref x)
>>> x
2

Obviously the implementation would not be trivial, but i think this
would be a very useful feature.

Any thoughts?




From danielk at aracnet.com  Sun Sep 28 00:29:12 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:29:12 -0700
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
Message-ID: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>

I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.

I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.

This is something I got use to in Smalltalk and have found it quite
useful when working on several methods that work closely together.

Daniel Klein



From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Fri Sep 26 15:01:18 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:01:18 -0500
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907B599B7@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: John Roth [mailto:newsgroups at jhrothjr.com] 
> 
> "Nicolas Fleury" <nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote in message
> news:MI_cb.75294$PD3.4794043 at nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> > Peter Otten wrote:
> >
> > > Nicolas Fleury wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>I was wondering if the need for \ could be reduce in the 
> > >>language.  For example, could a line ending with = or + 
> > >>could be automaticly considered incomplete?
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you know about (...)?
> >
> > Actually, no.  But it's still not what I'm looking for.  
> > It's just that I'm used to languages where I can put my 
> > code on multiple easily to make lines shorter.  

"I know that long lines are bad, help me do it more conveniently in
Python?" <wink>.

Seriously though, long lines are a sure sign that you're doing too much
per line. The obvious solution is to pull out subexpressions and assign
them to meaningful temporary variable names until you're within 25x80.
When someone wants to fix a bug in your code a year from now it will
also be easier for them to figure out what you were trying to do
(potentially saving you time :-)

> > As John pointed, it's possible to add () to  print.  I
> > just discovered that it can be done with return also.  I 
> > wonder how to remove the need for \ in that example:
> >
> >      parser.StartElementHandler = \
> >          lambda name, attrs: \
> >              GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs)
> 
> How about:
> 
>     parser.StartElementHandler = (lambda name, attrs:
>         GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, name, attrs))

A lambda that doesn't fit on one line is way to obscure... It needs a
comment to justify it's existence, so might as well do it right <wink>:

  def startElementCallback(tagname, attrs):
      GenericParser.handleElementStart(self, tagname, attrs))

  parser.StartElementHandler = startElementCallback

No contortions, I'm explicitly saying what the purpose of the funciton
is, I can add comments/asserts/logging without spending time on code
"layout" issues, and I can write tests explicitly for
'startElementCallback' without considering the rest of the fn's
functionality (it might be trivial here, but code grows... ;-)

-- bjorn




From glc at well.com  Fri Sep 12 11:00:25 2003
From: glc at well.com (Greg Chapman)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:00:25 GMT
Subject: Opposite of yield?
References: <3F5F7E35.B5DA4669@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <tfn3mvo0h31kbr2lknb10ipqs6dvmhkarf@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:40:37 -0700, achrist at easystreet.com wrote:

>
>The yield statement looks to be a big step toward some kind of
>lightweight concurrency-oriented programming in python.  Is there
>any similarly nice way to do the opposite of yield, just sit around
>(perhaps in the middle of a loop) and wait until some other routine
>(unknown to the waiting module) hurls a value in?
>
>If this is not implemented now, is there any chance that it's on the
>list of things to come?
>

You can use a generator as the body of a function.  That is, the generator is
only ever accessed through the function, and the function and the generator have
some agreed on way to pass parameters.  I.e.:

def getline(output):
    '''getline accumulates text until it has a complete line (signaled
       by either a newline (\\n) or a null (\\0)).  It then passes the
       line (without trailing \n) to output'''

    genargs = [None]
    def callgen(text):
        genargs[0] = text
        return gennext()
    def gen():
        line = ''
        while True:
            text, = genargs
            if text:
                lines = text.splitlines(True)
                if line:
                    lines[0] = line+lines[0]                
                for line in lines[:-1]:
                    output(line[:-1])
                line = lines[-1]
                if line[-1] in '\n\0':
                    if line[-1] == '\n':
                        line = line[:-1]
                    output(line)
                    line = ''
            yield None
    gennext = gen().next
    return callgen

def printer(text):
    print text

lineprinter = getline(printer)

lineprinter('hello')      #nothing output
lineprinter(' world\n')   #prints 'hello world'


---
Greg Chapman




From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Sep  4 22:44:51 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 02:44:51 GMT
Subject: htmllib.py and parsing malformed HTML
References: <G1T4b.2227$gJ.1163@bignews3.bellsouth.net> <bj1sh5$e9i7j$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <JP%4b.4205$tH.3863@bignews4.bellsouth.net> <873cfeyhqw.fsf@pobox.com> <09J5b.203$MD.41@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.04.22.44.59.39712@jerf.org>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:50:07 -0400, KC wrote:
> As with most organizations,
> changing *our* code is much more acceptable to the powers that be, than
> bringing in a third-party product that will have to be evaluated and have
> countless meetings over its approval.  For many of us, business and policy
> decisions often forge the direction for technology usage within our
> organizations.

If you are having real problems with poor HTML, HTMLTidy may be worth
going to bat over. If you can find a simple solution that works on the
HTML you are processing, great, go with it, and it's worth researching in
your situation first. But HTML can go bad in more ways then you can
imagine (which is in fact part of the problem); if you are getting HTML
that's bad in a lot of little ways, you'll find the "apply a hack to fix
this file, apply a hack to fix that file" will start stepping on its own
toes.

HTMLTidy represents a ***lot*** of grunt work and a ***lot*** of
functionality that you can *not* replicate in a reasonable amount of time;
it's one of those packages that isn't so much a program that "does
something" as a program that represents many, many man-years of "knowledge
acquired". 

I'm not trying to push anything, since I don't know your situation, but
HTMLTidy is one of those rare projects that you really shouldn't allow NMH
to scuttle unless you *really* need to. (Again, I mention if there's some
simple way you can characterize the bad HTML coming out of one single
program, go ahead and try to fix it; maybe you'll get lucky and a regex
will be enough.)



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Sep 30 00:22:45 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:22:45 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <y7Ncb.3617$RW4.1457@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <pnjanv02metj5q30ivo2h3qhon03egaf59@4ax.com> <BHjdb.5330$RW4.4732@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <s9mhnvgb5vng55tqq280t6tp8h3ab449v5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <py7eb.9730$NX3.815@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou:
> Safe wisdom: mv (move, ren for old DOS) would be better, right?

Sure.  I know that *now*.  :)

> If 'inst same' wasn't enough, then that should have been a really old
> version of Irix... :(
> --

A Personal Iris running 3.0.4, in 1990

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From prabhura at caip.rutgers.edu  Tue Sep  2 06:58:37 2003
From: prabhura at caip.rutgers.edu (Prabhu Raghavan)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 06:58:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <200309021058.GAA18860@caip.rutgers.edu>

Hi,

You have reached prabhura at caip.rutgers.edu.

This address is no longer being read by the owner. If you are sending
junk (which is what I suspect) please stop. If you are sending useful
mail, you should know a better address to send to.

As for this message re:Re: Thank you!, I'm going to do my best to ignore
it. Incidently, apart from an automatic reply, this is being 
redirected to /dev/null.

Cheers.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep 23 09:22:21 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:22:21 -0400
Subject: <?standalone yes?>
References: <3f6f32b9@post.newsfeed.com>
Message-ID: <3F70490D.6EC57C01@engcorp.com>

"Lonnie, SRC employee" wrote:
> 
> *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
> 
> I can figure out how to set the standalone attribute in the <? xml
> version="1.0 ?> tag eg <?xml version="1.0" standalone="yes" ?>

Simplest approach might be to manually munge the <?xml ?> tag
as you write the output to a file.  You could do a simple re.sub()
or something like this, which we've used from time to time with no
ill effects to date (pseudo-code, not executable as-is):

xml = '<?xml version="1.0"?><doc><somestuff/></doc>'

xmlEnd = xml.find('?>') + 2

file.write('<?xml standalone="yes" version="1.0"?>' + xml[xmlEnd:])

In other words, find the end of the original <?xml?> tag, strip it,
substitute your own, continue on with life.

Simplest thing that could possibly work...

-Peter



From letbetter at ti.com  Fri Sep 26 09:21:51 2003
From: letbetter at ti.com (Letbetter, Jason)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:21:51 -0500
Subject: Is there an extension library?
Message-ID: <B028FA2A5D295B4DAB8865FAD974E8F1089FD8@dleest06.itg.ti.com>

I'm creating Python extensions for several c/c++ components.    I'm using
swig to create the extensions.  The biggest challenge so far is working with
the c args between Python and the Python extension.  Is there a 3rd party
library of extension helpers that assist in representing c-types between
Python and c?  Are there any tips and tricks?

Here are some specific scenarios I am running into.

1) Refrencing and derefrencing:
For example, condsider this c api:

void foo_alloc(void** handle_ptr);
void foo_use(void* handle);

In c &handle.  How to get pointer to pointer in Python?
In c *handle_ptr.  How to derefrence a pointer in Python?


2) Coercion:
For example, suppose you want to initialize a char array in Python.

buf = CharArray(100)
for i in range(100):
   buf[i] = i

The above results in:
"TypeError: CharArray___setitem__() argument 3 must be char, not int"
In c, buf[i] = (char)i, is implicit.  How do I do it in Python.  Why doesn't
Python make this conversion implicitly?


3) It seems like I'm doing something unatural with my Python extension.  It
seems someone else may have already figured out the best way to transform c
arguments between Python and Python extensions genericly.

Thanks,
Jason

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From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Thu Sep 18 16:20:54 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:20:54 -0700
Subject: win32comm
References: <mailman.1063896746.31017.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0309181220.17bf6984@posting.google.com>

"Alberto Vera" <avera at coes.org.pe> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063896746.31017.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello:
> 
> Could you tell me How I can solve this problem?
> 
> Regards
> 
>     import win32com.client
> ImportError: No module named win32com.clieny
> --

Perhaps you need to install the win32 extensions.

http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Sep 12 13:23:56 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:23:56 -0400
Subject: Python / C: small runtime difference?
In-Reply-To: <bjsuo7$mrg96$1@ID-119488.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEKNFNAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Martin Schneider]
> I chose a simple bubblesort because I wanted to compare the
> performance of handcoded Python with handcoded C. I know that the
> internal sort() routine of Python will beat the living daylights out
> of my bubblesort :-)

Hey, I'm not proud -- if it turns out your bubblesort runs faster, let me
know and I'll try to make an adaptive bubblesort out of it <wink>.

python's-list.sort()-implementations-have-advanced-by-staring-at-
    useless-ideas-until-they-give-up-ly y'rs  - tim





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Sep  5 07:53:05 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:53:05 +0300
Subject: file object, details of modes and some issues.
References: <3f57be21$1_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>
Message-ID: <0bpglv0qr8a3okmn3smcnp0q8diq4ao18p@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:35:11 +0100, rumours say that simon place
<simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk> might have written:

>could someone confirm ( or otherwise ) this  bug.

>manual says file.truncate leave the pointer unmoved, well it doesn't, and left 
>me with a bug in a program that took a bit of finding.

> >>> f=file('test.dat','rb+')
change the above to f=file('test.dat', 'wb') to make things easier

> >>> f.write('1234567890')
> >>> f.close()
> >>> f=file('test.dat','rb+')
> >>> f.read(5)
>'12345'
> >>> f.tell()
>5L
> >>> f.truncate()
> >>> f.tell()
>10L

>( PythonWin 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
>win32. )

Seems it's a Windows only bug.  On a 2.4.3 linux, libc-2.2.5 the final
statement produces 5L (and the file is only 5 bytes long).  Same on
another 2.4.19 libc-2.2.5, and a 2.4.21 libc-2.3.1 Linux, all with a
recent Python 2.4a0 .  I did reproduce it on Windows.

I believe you should post a platform-specific bug; meanwhile, you can
assure that f.truncate() works correctly on Windows by issuing a
f.seek(f.tell()) beforehand.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep 30 16:39:20 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:39:20 -0500
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
In-Reply-To: <62e9c66e.0309301227.20505db6@posting.google.com>
References: <62e9c66e.0309301227.20505db6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030930203914.GD12344@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 01:27:15PM -0700, Dominik Kaspar wrote:
> maybe my question was badly formulated. i give it a new try:
> why does the following program give the output "0 0" and not "1 0"?
> why does it loop forever? and how could that problem be fixed?

Because inside functions, an assignment to a simple name, like
    running = 1
refers to a local variable, unless there is a "global" statement in
which case it refers to a module-level variable:
    global running
    running = 1
(this is still not what you want)
You want to refer to Server.running, as suggested in another message:
    def run(self):
        Server.running = 1

jeff
PS The first server.running might print 0 if the first line of
Server.run hasn't executed the first statement yet, of course, but
that's another story




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Sep 23 19:28:43 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:28:43 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <mailman.1064341934.21653.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-CA53C5.12265623092003@news.service.uci.edu> <Gn1cb.2779$gi2.756@fed1read01> <so81nvsosmukkds1ne3fbbocjliu3tbjaa@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LG4cb.185$yU5.17@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Stephen Horne]
> Running with this idea, how about...
>
>   for i in int.backward [:n] :
>     ...


I would support adding a iter_backwards() method to
strings, lists, and xrange objects.

    for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
            print i

    for i in range(n).iter_backwards():
            print i

    for c in "flog".iter_backwards():
            print c

It could also be implemented for other sequence objects
if there were compelling use cases and if the implementation
wasn't too hairy (file objects for instance).


Raymond Hettinger





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 30 18:45:34 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:45:34 -0400
Subject: PEP-0263 and default encoding
References: <3f782aef-bdbbd6f1-a72a-4a6c-8b23-c4915b89a61f@news.szn.dk> <m3k77qdkey.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vnk1t3bm5jb2e0@news.supernews.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3k77qdkey.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> Klaus Alexander Seistrup <rasmus.klump at myorange.dk> writes:
>
>
> 2. You are writing new code, and you are annoyed by the encoding
>    declaration. Just save your code as UTF-8, using the UTF-8 BOM.

The problem with the UTF-8 BOM is that it precludes using the #! header
line under Linux/Unix. Otherwise, it's a great solution.

John Roth

>
> Regards,
> Martin





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep 10 11:07:58 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:07:58 -0500
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
In-Reply-To: <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>
        <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
        <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>
        <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
        <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org>
        <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>
        <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>
        <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
        <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <16223.15950.299463.959577@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Counter-test: Imagine your seven-year-old son finding your gun and
    >> shooting and killing your five-year-old daughter while you're working
    >> in your study.

    Al> Impossible.  The son had been taught safe gun handling on the pistol
    Al> range w/ a .22 starting at aged five, and would come and tell you
    Al> that firearm had not been safely stored.

This sort of thing still happens (it hits the news whenever such a shooting
occurs), so clearly all seven-year-olds who live in houses with guns are not
being trained to handle and respect firearms.

Skip





From eriuhq24o8q7fgalwef at spamhole.com  Tue Sep 30 18:41:34 2003
From: eriuhq24o8q7fgalwef at spamhole.com (pysim)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 15:41:34 -0700
Subject: Using MVC when the model is dynamic
Message-ID: <c5f1c523.0309301441.7c97400c@posting.google.com>

Hi, I have a couple of general requests for pointers to python
examples and design advice.

I'm looking for examples of MVC-based GUI controls done in python
(model-view-controller).

Also, examples where something like a simulation model running in its
own thread sends fast updates to a GUI in near real-time.  The only
examples I've seen, such as SimPy, wait until the model is finished
running before outputting data.

Most MVC controls I see in java for example are only designed for
infrequent user-driven changes, like resizing a window or mouse
clicks, not cases where the underlying model is changing itself over
time.



From google at elesi.org  Wed Sep 10 16:54:10 2003
From: google at elesi.org (neeson)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 13:54:10 -0700
Subject: Heisenberg strikes again!
Message-ID: <a82d9823.0309101254.39f8f05@posting.google.com>

Alright, I'm fairly new to Python, and this one has got me stumped. 
I've just started to write a cli program that'll use readline, and
I've attached the relevant bits.

Here's the mystery:  If I so much as /look/ at the list 'matches',
readline stops working.  Run the program, hit tab at the prompt,
you'll get 'one', which is incorrect, as there are in fact four
possible completions.  Now comment out the line that I've marked
(which, incidentally, does nothing).  /Now/ it works.

Is there some very strange side effect to accessing a list element
that I'm unaware of?  I've tried it in two different versions of
Python.

Any elightenment would be appreciated...

Heath

ps In terms of being useful, this program doesn't make any sense.  I'm
not trying to get it to work, I'm looking to understand why the
commented line affects the rest of the code.


#!/usr/bin/python

import readline
import sys

commands = ["one", "two", "three", "four"]
matches = []

def comp(text, state):
    if state == 0:
        matches = []
        n = len(text)
        for cmd in commands:
            if cmd[:n] == text:
                matches.append(cmd)
    throwaway = matches[0]   # <--- Comment out this line
    return commands[state]

readline.set_completer(comp)
readline.parse_and_bind("tab: complete")

while 1:
    try:
        line = raw_input("> ")
    except EOFError:
        print "\n",
        sys.exit()
    print ": %s" % line



From danielk at aracnet.com  Mon Sep 15 10:51:19 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:51:19 -0700
Subject: list of lists
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <hbkbmvgtadvug4ht3grqeop0m3if4hrooc@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:59:56 +0200, Tom <llafba at gmx.net> wrote:

>I have a list that consists of lists.
>E.g. T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
>Is there a way to address the a specific component in the "inner" list 
>directly?
>E.g. right now I want to get the second value of the first list. 
>Unfortunately I have to save it to a variable first and then read it.
>a = T[0]
>print a[1]
>
>That kind of sucks, becaus I have to read a lot of values from a lot of 
>lists! :-(
>Is there a faster way than my saving it to a "help variable" first?


>>> T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
>>> print t[0][1]
2

Daniel Klein 



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Sep 24 15:51:56 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:51:56 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <hJ6cb.1252$RW4.107@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <vn1uus5a74ce3a@news.supernews.com> <w57cb.1289$RW4.1142@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <cud2nv80bufr6gaaodqn302rmf3okv062i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wBmcb.2169$RW4.543@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Stephen Horne:
> To me, the reason to use a method (or property) is simply that most
> types cannot be efficiently 'backwardised'.

Which is why my function looks for an '__riter__' under
the covers, so that an object can provide a specialized
implementation, if possible.

If it can't, I then proposed an implementation which will
iterate in reverse through lists and list-like interfaces (things
indexed by 0, 1, ... len(obj)-1).  There is a problem though
in that my attempt at a 'generic' reverse implementation
will give strange errors in dictionary-like interfaces.

> For instance, iterators in
> general would have to be buffered into a list an then the resulting
> list iterated backwards. That could be useful, but the overhead is
> sufficient that I think explicitly writing 'list (x).backward ()'
> rather than 'x.backward ()' would be a good thing.

Those objects which implement a 'reverse_iterate' /
'backward' / whatever are identical to those which would
implement a __riter__ accessed under the covers.

My question is, what to do about objects which *don't*
provide a special method.  Should there still be a standard
way to do a reverse iteration through them?

The only two I can think of are:
  - assume
       for i in range(len(obj)-1, -1, -1):  yield obj[i]
     works as a backup.  It doesn't quite work because of
     dictionaries.

  - assume that storing all elements in a temporary
     list and doing a reverse on the temp list is okay.
     As you point out, it is the most generic but doesn't
     work if memory is a problem.  (There's also a
    concern about proper destruction order if you want
    to delete elements from a list starting from the end.)

  - (There's a third, which is O(n**2).  At every request,
      iterate through the list to find the last element.)

If there is an acceptable solution (which needn't be
perfect, just practicable) then it's a good reason to
have it be a builtin over a special method.

I still point out that there are many other ways of
doing iteration and I don't see what makes reverse
iteration so important to get its own method.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com






From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 24 06:38:28 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:38:28 +0100
Subject: string.rstrip
References: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com>
	    <m27k40se2s.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <mailman.1064353953.17403.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F717424.6C9503BD@hotmail.com>

Matthew Wilson wrote:
> What would be the best way to strip off the last "_asdf" from
> "asdf_asdf_asdf"?

I don't about "the best way" (define "best"), but here's another way

#--------------
import re
patt = re.compile('_asdf$')
mystring = "asdf_asdf_asdf"
print patt.sub('', mystring)
#--------------------------

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 30 19:28:38 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:28:38 -0600
Subject: Wavelet package available?
References: <2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d@posting.google.com> <z4adnU-lwpqa1eWiU-KYjA@comcast.com> <bla6kk$mps$1@reader10.wxs.nl>
Message-ID: <bld3j7$rq$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

google("python wavelets")[2] -> 

http://baypiggies.net/pipermail/baypiggies/2003-September/000236.html

I saw the talk (well, the scipy'03 version), and I suppose if you contact Chad
directly he may be willing to mail you a copy of the package (I don't have it
myself, so don't ask me).  I don't know anything about the internals of the
package, but at the talk he did show some nice functionality, mainly oriented
towards image manipulations.

Cheers,

f.



From mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 23 15:03:01 2003
From: mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: idle import problem
In-Reply-To: <200309231952.43835.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>
References: <49799.199.169.240.132.1064335411.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>
    <200309231952.43835.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>
Message-ID: <64446.199.169.240.132.1064343781.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Thanks -

That's really useful.  I know how to set PYTHONPATH in unix, but how to in
windows?

> On Tuesday 23 Sep 2003 5:43 pm, Matthew Wilson wrote:
>> Hi-
>>
>> I'm trying to import a countylist.py file in idle, and it isn't working.
>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> >>> os.listdir(os.getcwd())
>>
>> ['4dcountylist.txt', 'CBP90KY_TXT.htm', 'CBP90OH_TXT.htm',
>> 'CBP90PA_TXT.htm', 'CBP90WV_TXT.htm', 'countylist.py', 'geocode.txt',
>> 'mvsales.xls', 'mvsalesbyfirm.xls', 'production_in_4d.xls',
>> 'USSalesSummary0308-1.xls']
>>
>> >>> import countylist
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<pyshell#15>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>>     import countylist
>> ImportError: No module named countylist
>>
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
>
> Python doesn't import from the current directory; it uses sys.path, unless
> the
> cwd is on sys.path...
>
> if you want to temporarily put it on the path, do:
>
> import os,sys
> sys.path.append(os.getcwd())
>
> but a better solution is to either put your module into a directory tha
> *is*
> on sys.path, or modify your python path setting directlty by setting your
> environment var PYTHONPATH accordingly.
>
> hope that helps
> -andyj
>





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 23 04:27:09 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:27:09 +0200
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <bkn12v$tns$06$1@news.t-online.com> <Xns93FEA7FBE3167duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bkp06u$qr8$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:

> Note that if anyone proposes this seriously, it should generate a 3-tuple
> (mapping(item), index, item) rather than the 2-tuple you suggest.
> 
> This is because the mapping function could reasonably be used to impose an
> ordering on objects that have no natural order, so you need to be sure
> that the comparison never falls through the the original object even where
> the mapping compares equal. It also has the side effect of making the sort
> stable (although if stability is a goal you might want another option to
> reverse the sort which would use '-index' as the second element and call
> .reverse() on the result).

So my demo implementation was faulty :-(
Let me try again:

    def sort(self, cmpfunc=None, mapfunc=None):
        if mapfunc:
            list.sort(self, lambda x, y: cmp(mapfunc(x), mapfunc(y)))
        else:
            list.sort(self, cmpfunc)

Seriously, if sort() were to be thus extended, the dsu pattern would rather
act as a performance enhancement under the hood. I prefer plain C 

struct {
    PyObject *decorator;
    int index; /* iff stability is not guaranteed by the sort algorithm */
    PyObject *data;
}

over n-tuples and would hope to reuse the sorting infrastructure already
there in listobject.c to compare only the decorators. I am not familiar
with the C source, so be gentle if that is not feasible.

> FWIW, I think something like this belongs in the standard library rather
> than as a method on lists or a new builtin.
 
If you think of the comparison as a two-step process, 

(1) extract or calculate an attribute
(2) wrap it into a comparison function

consider the following use cases:

(a) lambda x, y: cmp(y, x)
(b) lambda x, y: cmp(x.attr.lower(), y.attr.lower())

All code following the latter pattern could be rewritten (more clearly, I
think) as

alist.sort(mapfunc=lambda x: attr.lower())

and would automatically benefit from dsu (which could even be turned off
transparently for the client code for very large lists, where the memory
footprint becomes a problem).

The litmus test whether to put it into a utility function or into an already
existing method that needs only a minor and completely backwards-compatible
interface change would then be:

Are (b)-style comparison functions nearly as or more common than (a)-style
functions.

Peter

PS: You and Alex Martelli dismissed my somewhat unfocused idea faster than I
could sort it out. I hope you will find the above useful, though.




From yaipa at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 10 03:57:03 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 00:57:03 -0700
Subject: Disagree with proposed 2.4 behavior for %x formatting of signed  i nts
References: <mailman.1063053673.4793.python-list@python.org> <47sqlvo64vf5tk93qmmo2fi9pvt5ijbno2@4ax.com> <bjl53p$j22$07$2@news.t-online.com> <bjlqcl$m4g$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0309092357.3a983b50@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bjlqcl$m4g$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:11:09 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> 
> >Tim Roberts wrote:
> >
> >> You do not understand correctly.  This is what will happen:
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>>>print "0x%08X" % -1041053949
> >> 
> >> 0x-3E0D38FD
> >
> >Actually, what *will* happen is
> >
> >-0x3E0D38FD
> >
> Really? In that case, would
> 
>      print "@#%08X" % -1041053949
> 
> produce
> 
>  -@#3E0D38FD
> ??

Sorry, but that sucks.

  --alan

> >
> >Indeed. You can still do all binary manipulations that you want to do.
> >
> But reasonably?
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter



From achrist at easystreet.com  Wed Sep  3 17:02:02 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:02:02 -0700
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
References: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F5656CA.519ABADF@easystreet.com>

Hank wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a CSV file from excel that looks like this (simplified):
> 
> name,description,type1,type2,name,filename
> test1,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> test2,another test,1.000,0.000,newname,filename
> test3,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> test4,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> test5,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> test6,this is a test,0.000,1.000,,
> 
> what i want at the end is a dictionary like
> 
> dict1[name] = test1
> dict1[description] = "this is a test"
> .
> .
> .
> dict2[name] = test2
> dict2[description] = "another test"
> 


import csv

dicts  		= []

inputFile = open("SomeDurnFileName.csv",  "rb")
parser = csv.reader(inputFile)
firstRec = True
for fields in parser:
	if firstRec:
		fieldNames = fields
		firstRec   = False
	else:
		dicts.append({})
		for i,f in enumerate(fields)
			dicts[-1][fieldNames[i]] = f



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Sep 11 17:40:30 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:40:30 -0400
Subject: metaclasses for type comparison
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-401CE9.14114111092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEGAFNAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[David Eppstein]
> I don't have 2.3 yet, so haven't used sets yet, but what happens if
> you try to sort a list of sets?
>
> I found a message
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-bugs-list/2003-January/015454.h
> tml> from Guido wondering about this but didn't see what the response
> was...

It was resolved as suggested there:  an explict cmp() applied to two Sets
raises an exception.  Set1.__lt__(Set2) returns true iff Set1 is a proper
subset of Set2.  list.sort() uses only __lt__ (when it can), so sorting a
list of Sets won't raise an exception (at least not just because __cmp__
raises an exception -- __cmp__ is never called because __lt__ exists), but
it's hard to say something useful about the result.  For example,

>>> from sets import Set
>>> x = [Set([i]) for i in range(10, 0, -1)]
>>> x.sort()
>>> x
[Set([10]), Set([9]), Set([8]), Set([7]), Set([6]), Set([5]), Set([4]),
 Set([3]), Set([2]), Set([1])]
>>>

"x < y" returns false for each distinct pair of sets x and y in that list,
so any permutation of the list is as good an answer as any other.  It so
happens that the 2.3 list.sort() implementation first asks

    x[i] < x[i-1]

for each relevant index position i.  They all say "no", so list.sort()
"deduces" (via assumed trichotomy) that x[i] >= x[i-1] everywhere, so ends
up believing the list is already in sorted order, and leaves it alone after
that one pass over the data.





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 22 19:19:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:19:39 -0400
Subject: Calling functions before that are def'ed
References: <944840ff.0309221318.35d2f9cd@posting.google.com> <bknqk1$3qt$1@news.eusc.inter.net>
Message-ID: <3F6F838B.588965D5@engcorp.com>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> 
> Charles Larry wrote:
> > Is there a way to define functions after the main part of a Python
> > script?
> >
> > Example:
> >
> > #!/usr/local/bin/python
> >
> > # this code yields a NameError
> >
> > print_message("hello world")
> >
> > def print_message(msg):
> >     print msg
> 
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> 
> def main ():
>      print_message("hello world")
> 
> def print_message(msg):
>      print msg
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      main ()
> 
> def statements are really executable statements and not declarations, so
> the order is important.

Note that the above slightly changes the behaviour of the code when globals
are involved.  Putting the original code directly under the __main__ part
at the end, however, does not.  (This example is too simple to exhibit any
difference in behaviour, but the following is the "safer" method for the 
unwary newbie, even if it's not as clean in the long run.)

def print_message(msg):
    print msg

if __name__ == "__main__":
    print_message("hello world")

-Peter



From yeung_too at yahoo.com.hk  Fri Sep  5 11:24:26 2003
From: yeung_too at yahoo.com.hk (yeung_too)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:24:26 -0400
Subject: Why python???
Message-ID: <3335321.1062775466@dbforums.com>

Dear all,



    My college used C for beginner course and use Java to demostrate OO
    concept. Anyway, I tried python and found that it is a very good
    language. I think many people spend time on Java and university uses
    Java because Sun Microsystem spends much money to promote and
    develop the Java language. I just feel that our world spends most
    time on promote things, rich company can promote computer language
    very well. Open source without huge money support, people may
    dislike their product. What do you think, But i really like open
    source ideas, it improves our world, not just $$$.



an university student

(reflect my feeling)


--
Daniel Chan


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep 16 23:22:19 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:22:19 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <20030916211148.GD29089@unpythonic.net>
References: <ipicnag7OpxdLfyiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <Hqk8b.382$BS5.239@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <V_mdnZ3eKoGjif6iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net> <3F632226.2010607@earthlink.net> <lcydnasf88GLyP6iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <EIL8b.6564$ZB4.1083@reader1.news.jippii.net> <f575e202.0309151024.2b7981ea@posting.google.com> <mwo9b.242$B13.103@reader1.news.jippii.net> <mailman.1063660337.3320.python-list@python.org> <5CH9b.81$2k.16@reader1.news.jippii.net> <20030916211148.GD29089@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <3F67D36B.80709@sci.fi>

Jeff Epler wrote:

>On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 08:22:41PM +0300, Harri Pesonen wrote:
>  
>
>>It is more efficient to have one process and several threads, than 
>>several processes each having one thread.
>>    
>>
>
>If it's easier to code "several processes each having one thread", then
>I'll sure do it.  I've accepted a 2x-100x speed hit by using Python, so
>if it's a 25% difference in efficiency, I won't sign up to wait for code
>that doesn't exist yet.
>  
>
But wouldn't it be better if Python had real multitasking? Comments like 
the above mean that you accept Python as it is, fine. But usually people 
want to make things better when they see that something can be improved. 
If my roof is leaking, I have two choices: fix it or accept it. If I am 
able to fix it, then I'll probably do it.

The old code base really is the problem here. If Python threads really 
run at the same time in the future, how many current applications stop 
working because they depend on the fact that only one thread runs at any 
given time, and do not acquire and release locks as needed? On the other 
hand, my suggestion probably means that we couldn't have a threading 
module compatible with thread or threading anyhow (we could have 
freethreading, with specific functions for inter-thread communication).

Harri

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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Sep 17 21:51:46 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:51:46 -0400
Subject: Module to generate OpenOffice Writer documents
References: <mailman.1063843345.7931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vmi3t4t3ep6g75@news.supernews.com>

"Ellinghaus, Lance" <lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063843345.7931.python-list at python.org...
> Has anyone created a module to generate the XML formatted files for
> OpenOffice?

>From what? What's the input?

John Roth
>
> Lance
>
> Lance Ellinghaus
> EDS - TWAI Operations
> Phone: 214-922-5454
> Cell: 940-597-4755
>
>
>





From amk at amk.ca  Tue Sep  2 18:45:51 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 17:45:51 -0500
Subject: Python REST framework?
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org> <cb035744.0309021352.1da1ecd9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <htudnanfUo4CgMiiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

On 2 Sep 2003 14:52:05 -0700, 
	Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm interested.  But I have been looking at the discussion on the rest
> mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rest-discuss/ and it
> seems they haven't found a solution for the user:password thing yet.
> Using SSL is a must, but then what?  Create some unguessable URI? 

I'm not on the rest-discuss list and therefore don't know what this is
referring to?  What's wrong with returning an HTTP 401 Unauthorized error to
make the user provide a username and password?

--amk



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Wed Sep 17 07:18:42 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 13:18:42 +0200
Subject: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <mailman.1063381578.29450.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tyfd6dzll2l.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

Anthony Baxter <anthony at interlink.com.au> writes:

> Erm, what's "MOP" mean?

Meta Object Protocol.



From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Tue Sep 16 14:12:47 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:12:47 -0400
Subject: Duck Typing
In-Reply-To: <3gG9b.12137$3Y2.2543@news2.central.cox.net>
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063720351.23661.python-list@python.org> <3gG9b.12137$3Y2.2543@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20030916181247.GA78164@hishome.net>

On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 03:47:11PM +0000, Steve Holden wrote:
> "Oren Tirosh" <oren-py-l at hishome.net> wrote ...
> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 02:01:18AM -0700, srijit at yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Hello All,
> > > I have been seeing this term "duck typing" for quite sometime now. It
> > > will be nice if one of us can give an example in Python demonstrating
> > > duck typing and/or link to some Python references.
> >
> > class Duck:
> >     def quack(self):
> >         print "Quack!"
> >
> > class MeWearingSillyDuckOutfit:
> >     def quack(self):
> >         print "ummm... Quack!"
> >
> > def make_it_quack(obj):
> >     obj.quack()
> >
> > a = Duck()
> > b = MeWearingSillyDuckOutfit()
> > make_it_quack(a)
> > make_it_quack(b)
> >
> 
> exquacktly [ducks and runs]

class Run:
    def quack(self):
       print "QUACK!"

ducks = [Duck() for i in range(10)]
runs = [Run() for i in range(10)]
apply(make_it_quack, ducks+runs)

   Oren




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Sep 23 10:40:30 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:40:30 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <63gvmvcf6iakbs8pgll7u8ogblkbqld6fp@4ax.com> <6EQbb.1770$PT3.279727@news20.bellglobal.com> <8vovmvgmb5c677ii8a43l8l0o1sjbosre2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <lWYbb.4739$yD1.697869@news20.bellglobal.com>

Here's a quick hack of an int class that supports iteration using the slice
notation, plus simple iteration on the class itself (for i in int: ...).
This can certainly be improved, and other issues need to be addressed, but I
just wanted to see what Stephen's idea would look like in practice. (Not
bad. Actually, pretty good.)

# using python 2.2.2
from __future__ import generators

class xint(int):
    class __metaclass__(type):
        def __iter__(cls):
            return cls.__getitem__()
        def __getitem__(cls, index=None):
            if hasattr(index, "start"):
                for i in range(index.start, index.stop, index.step):
                    yield i
            elif isinstance(index, int):
                yield index
            elif index is None:
                i = 0
                while True:
                    yield i
                    i += 1
            else:
                raise Exception
        __getitem__ = classmethod(__getitem__)

print "iteration on int"
for i in xint:
    if i >= 10:
        break
    print i

print "\niteration on int slice"
for i in xint[0:22:2]:
    print i



#
# OUTPUT
#
iteration on int
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9

iteration on int slice
0
2
4
6
8
10
12
14
16
18
20






From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 25 15:53:13 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:53:13 -0400
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it> <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com> <bkvbb5$6mi$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F7347A9.216B8EE@engcorp.com>

Dominic wrote:
> 
> Besides with Pyrex it's 2-4 lines to access
> PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc from Python :-)

Posting those 2-4 lines would be helpful to those searching the archives
at a later date. ;-)

-Peter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Sep 14 11:26:11 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:26:11 -0400
Subject: referencing in cmd string
References: <ab5a234a.0309140638.e81fbab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xa6dnba-16BdFfmiU-KYgw@comcast.com>

"Kali K E" <kalike2003 at netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ab5a234a.0309140638.e81fbab at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I wanted to grep a file for a pattern. The pattern is a dynamic one
> stored in the string "rec". I tried to do it as follows:
>
> cmd = "grep -c rec filelist2 > grepdata"
> os.system(cmd)

I believe you want the value of the string named 'rec', and not 'rec'
itself, inserted in your command string.  If that value does not
itself need to be quoted within the command string, then this should
work.

"grep -c %s filelist2 > grepdata" % rec

If your pattern has chars that make it necessary to be (double?)
quoted, then maybe

'grep -c "%s" filelist2 > grepdata' % rec

will work.  (The command quoting rules depend on your OS and shell.)

Terry J. Reedy


is what you





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Sep 20 10:43:48 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:43:48 -0500
Subject: bizarre behavior using .lstrip
In-Reply-To: <200309192243.27913.j_k_wd@bellsouth.net>
References: <681f9321.0309191607.4e8b858a@posting.google.com> <3F6B9B44.9EAD3CF9@engcorp.com> <200309192243.27913.j_k_wd@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20030920144342.GA10939@unpythonic.net>

On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 10:43:27PM -0400, Jeremy Dillworth wrote:
> As an alternative you could use re.sub()
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> s = 'chg cbonn_fee'
> >>> print re.sub('chg ', '', s)
> cbonn_fee

I'd recommend avoiding regexes if this is all you're doing.  Instead,
you can write a function to do it:

    def remove_prefix(prefix, s):
	"""remove_prefix(prefix, s) -> str
    If s starts with prefix, return the part of s remaining after
    prefix.  Otherwise, return the original string"""
	if s.startswith(prefix):
	    return s[len(prefix):]
	return s

>>> for s in ("chg conn_fee", "something else", "chg x", "chg", "chg "):
...     remove_prefix("chg ", s)
... 
'conn_fee'
'something else'
'x'
'chg'
''

Jeff




From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep  3 11:38:50 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:38:50 +0200
Subject: Invisible function attributes
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj5290$h96$07$1@news.t-online.com>

def foo():
    try:
        foo.a += 1 # executed every time you call the function
    except AttributeError:
        foo.a = 1 # set to one if it's not already there

foo.b = 1 # executed once

print vars(foo) # function body not yet called {'b': 1}

for i in range(3):
    foo()
    print vars(foo)

Loop output is

{'a': 1, 'b': 1}
{'a': 2, 'b': 1}
{'a': 3, 'b': 1}

That is all perfectly sane as code in the function body is never executed
unless you call the function, whereas code on the module level is executed
immediately as the module is imported. So put foo.attr = ... into the
function body iff you want it to execute every time the function is
invoked; otherwise put it into the module startup code, i. e. do not indent
it.

Peter




From claird at lairds.com  Mon Sep  1 09:24:58 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:24:58 -0000
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162> <vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com> <Xns93E99702FBABCgodlarz@62.243.74.162>
Message-ID: <vl6i5a2fjdrd2c@corp.supernews.com>

In article <Xns93E99702FBABCgodlarz at 62.243.74.162>,
Larz  <lp at your-pants-coder.dk> wrote:
>claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote in news:vl6dmm8jutl140
>@corp.supernews.com:
>
>> Python already has a structure--and much content!--for 
>> comparable collaboration in <URL: http://
>> www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/ >.  Moreover, as several
>> follow-ups have explained, Python developers have differ-
>> ent work practices than PHPers, and a different relation
>> to documentation.  In particular, it's hard to overempha-
>> size how much working Python programmers depend on 
>> interactive introspection:  use of the interpreter's
>> built-in help, pydoc, and related facilities to discover
>> and confirm details that, in PHPonia, are regarded as 
>> matters for online documentation.
>
>Yes, I agree that a lot of python programmers think differently. 
>Even though, I sense a general consensus, especially among beginning 
>Pythoneers, that the community lacks a great tool, like the one PHP has.
>Of course I am not just thinking about the documentation itself, which you 
>could get with pydoc/help(), but also experience, pointers, pitfalls that 
>other people ran in to. That's what makes it a community ;)
>
>Anyway, I am pretty sure we're going to fill a much needed niche, and if 
>not, we're certainly going to meet our own needs ;)
			.
			.
			.
Larz, my own career has been almost entirely an
exploration of the relation between meeting my
own needs and filling much-needed niches; any
words of support would be only superfluous.

I fear, though, that I didn't write clearly.  I
made *two* observations; not only do Pythoneers
rely on introspection, but we *already* have a
vehicle for sharing code examples, commentary,
and related matters:  the Wiki (complementing,
incidentally, the Cookbook).
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From llothar at web.de  Sat Sep 20 06:53:11 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 03:53:11 -0700
Subject: Webware and RAM!
References: <d30mmv0fh2ohgbnl15t6muf7n2rdlvtgcl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309200253.e7a6d90@posting.google.com>

JZ <jroznfgre at jngpugbjreXEBCXNbet.cy> wrote in message news:<d30mmv0fh2ohgbnl15t6muf7n2rdlvtgcl at 4ax.com>...
> How much memory WebKit should normally take??? As I can see, every
> WebKit daemon takes over 40MB (sic!) of RAM. WebKit lauches 10 daemons
> during startup, so I need over 400MB for WebKit alone! Is it
> normal or I have something wrong configured?

Are you sure that you count only the really used memory.
I haven't used Linux in the last two years but i remember that some
tools
display wrong sizes (adding all dynamic libraries and even the XFree
Graphic card memory).

The basic memory consumption of webware on Windows is around 5 MB.



From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep 18 15:26:51 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:26:51 +0200
Subject: How to pass parameter to a module?
References: <Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174@twister.southeast.rr.com> <bkc62g$5k0$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <dnmab.5254$9G2.2643@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bkd0rb$qb2$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com>

> I thought about the third module. It doesn't sound good.
> I hoped there're some tricks with __dict__, frames and
> other __...__ objects.
>

Well, there are some tricks ;-)


myVariable='great surprise'
import x
.......

"This is modul X"
import sys
print sys.modules['__main__'].myVariable


But generally the namespace of a module is ... the module.

Kindly
Michael P





From zanesdad at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep  2 11:59:40 2003
From: zanesdad at bellsouth.net (Jeremy Jones)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:59:40 -0400
Subject: Docs on speeding up Python code?
In-Reply-To: <bj2can$17ea$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>; from a.neudecker@uni-bonn.de on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 05:17:41PM +0200
References: <bj2can$17ea$1@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <20030902115940.A18621@cerberus.liberty>

* Andreas Neudecker (a.neudecker at uni-bonn.de) wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have seen some discussions going on about making Python code faster 
> and several measures looked fairly 'esoteric' to me (i.e.: you need to 
> know a lot of background things to even KNOW about these possibilities).
> 
> Is there anywhere a concise Howto, article, PEP, whatever that describes 
> possible measures to make Python code faster (and probably 'cleaner', 
> too)? And possibly in a way, that a beginner or intermediate Python user 
> can understand? ;-)
> 
> If you know of any such docs, I would be happy if you could post some links.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Andreas

One link that has helped me out is http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/fastpython.html.  I got a considerable performance boost on a parser that I wrote by following his suggestions (specifically doing things over and over and the use of the profiler).

HTH


Jeremy Jones




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 02:55:06 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 00:55:06 -0600
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjh94c$j9p$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

dan wrote:

> I was recently surprised, and quite shocked in fact, to find that
> Python treats negative indices into sequence types as if they were
> mod(length-of-sequence), at least up to -len(seq).
> 
> This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.

Very deeply indeed: section 3.1.4 of the beginner's tutorial:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html#SECTION005140000000000000000

Of all places, this is the section on lists:

>>> a = ['spam', 'eggs', 100, 1234]

        [... snip ...]

>>> a[-2]
100
>>> a[1:-1]
['eggs', 100]

> Can anyone explain why this anomaly exists, and why it should continue
> to exist?

Because this 'anomaly' is incredibly useful in many contexts, as many others
have already pointed out.  Rest assured that it will continue to exist,
probably for as long as the language is around.  Better get to like it :)

Cheers,

f.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep 11 14:15:15 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 20:15:15 +0200
Subject: Building Imaging-1.1.4 on Solaris 9
References: <pan.2003.09.11.10.38.06.137465@cs.york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m365jzur7w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Mark Nelson" <mn-nospam at cs.york.ac.uk> writes:

> Imaging -ljpeg -lz -o build/lib.solaris-2.9-sun4u-2.2/_imaging.so
> Text relocation remains                         referenced
>     against symbol                  offset      in file
> <unknown>                           0x14c       libImaging/libImaging.a(Unpack.o

Recompile Unpack.o with -fPIC.

Regards,
Martin



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 13:29:13 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:29:13 GMT
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>

David Abrahams wrote:
   ...
> Also, the idea of denying tuples the ability to reverse iterate seems
> arbitrary and capricious.

Sure, but so is denying them, e.g., non-mutating methods such as .index()
and .count().  At least we're _consistently_ arbitrary and capricious!-)


Alex




From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Sat Sep 20 06:26:16 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:26:16 GMT
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
In-Reply-To: <4fd6e92.0309191333.20114e3@posting.google.com>
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com> <4fd6e92.0309190518.3b226735@posting.google.com> <bkf0nd$10dm0$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <4fd6e92.0309191333.20114e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F6C2B3F.3060207@pandora.be>

Bill wrote:
> Karl Scalet <news at yebu.de> wrote in message news:<bkf0nd$10dm0$1 at ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> 
>>Bill wrote:
>>
>>
>>>[...]
>>>path = 'C:\\YourPath\\YourFile.txt'
>>>filename = 'YourFile.txt'
>>
>>is this correct? Shouldn't path contain the directory only?
>>Otherwise what's the content of YourFile.txt then.
>>
>>Karl
> 
> 
> Well I believe you need the file as well b/c the mimetypes function
> checks the extension to see what type of file it is. I am sure you can
> modify it to be more efficient. But it works as is.

Path and filename are two distinct items. The first points to the 
physical file, the other is the name the attachment will get in the mail.
This way you also have the flexibility to name the file once attached 
different than the version on disk.




From Ian.Sparks at etrials.com  Tue Sep 30 08:54:46 2003
From: Ian.Sparks at etrials.com (Ian Sparks)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:54:46 -0400
Subject: Package question.
Message-ID: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9C59AB7@pippin.int.etrials.com>

This makes sense, thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott David Daniels [mailto:Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 7:43 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Package question.


Ian Sparks wrote:
> ... On Windows, I want to set up a package structure like :
> Fred\
>   Bob\
>     test.py
> So I can say :
>     from Fred.Bob import *
> To do this I need to put the package on the python path. 
 > So I drop this into my python root in a file called Fred.pth :
>     C:\Fred\
> Now to make sure that Fred and Bob both look like packages with 
 > empty __init__.py files like so :
>     C:\Fred\
>        __init__.py
>     C:\Fred\Bob\
>        __init__.py
>        test.py

> so :
> C:\python.exe -c from Fred.Bob import *
> OK!
But this is a lucky accident.  If you do:
     import sys
     for number, name in enumerate(sys.path):
         print number, repr(path)
You'll see (I suspect) that '' is on your path, and the Fred.pth
value is irrelevant (it adds an entry for 'C:\\Fred\\', which allows
you to import from Bob, not Fred.  You Fred.pth file should list the
directory _containing_ Fred (in this case, 'C:\\', not 'C:\\Fred\\').

Note, you'll still be surprised soon, because I suspect you think
that after:
     from Fred.Bob import *
you can freely use:
     test.somefunction()

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From john at rygannon.com  Thu Sep  4 18:23:02 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (BadJake)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:23:02 GMT
Subject: ANN: Rekall V2.1.0 beta1
Message-ID: <3f57bb6b$0$206$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Rekall 2.1.0 Beta1 is out

The following is a list of new features new in this release

*Macros

Rekall 2.1.0 introduces macros, in the same sense as another well known
database front end. Like python scripts, macros can be stored either in
separate macro objects. Macros are intended to provide a quick and easy way
to provide basic automation without needing a knowledge of the python
programming language. Beta1 has a basic set of macros, to be extended.

*Printing

Report data view now features a drop-down page selector for quick navigation
where your report has a large number of pages. There is also a print this
page button. Also (under KDE) you can control the printing DPI, to handle
some obscure situations (like running Rekall/KDE under Gnome).

*Wizards

At last! Wizards. Initially wizards will be available to handle database
connection setup, and form and report creation (Beta1 has rather basic
connection and form wizards)

*Printing

Under KDE3.1 (not 3.0) report data view has a page-selection tool and
print-page button. You can also set the DPI to handle situations like
running Rekall under Gnome, which uses a different resolution.

*Copier

The copier can now use rekall-level queries as a data source, and also XML
in a restricted format. Column name information can be passed from the
source to the destination.

*Dumper and Loader

Rekall now comes with database dumper and loader functions, which can be
used to dump a database to a set of files, and to reload from the files.
Note that this is primarily intended for use with databases created with
rekall, and should not be viewed as a substitute for the RDBMS tools.

*Bugs

A whole bunch of bugs have been fixed (and, no doubt, a few more slipped
in). Please report the new ones!

Please visit http://www.rygannon.com for more information and to download a
copy of the demo

Best Regards
John



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 22 21:47:05 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:47:05 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com>

"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in
message news:oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1 at 4ax.com...
>
> PEP315 (Enhanced while loop) suggests a syntax as follows...
>
>   do:
>     ...
>   while condition:
>     ...

I've snipped the rest of your lengthy analysis because I think
the problem is much deeper, and is essentially insoluble given
the structure of Python.

The difficulty is that there is no clear and obvious way of
distinguishing subordinate groupings from the main grouping.

Consider the if statement:

if something:
    blah blah
elif something_else:
    blither
else:
    bletch

If we look at this, without knowing the syntax of the
if statement, it looks like three primary statements.
There is no a priori way of knowing, from the lexical
structure of the language, that elif and else cannot
occur by themselves, but must be preceeded by
a specific statement. You need the additional layer
of the syntactic relationships.

Consider the same structure in Ruby:

if something
    blah blah
elsif something_else
    blither
else
    bletch
end

The thing that makes all the difference is the "end"
statement which closes the if. The elsif and the else
are clauses within the if statement, and there is no
way of missing that fact even if you don't know the
exact syntax of the if structure.

If we now go back to the loop suggestion,
it becomes rather obvious what needs to be
done:

do:
    bibbity
    bobbity
    boo
    while condition  # note the lack of a colon!

This is at least unambiguous as to what is
going on.

I don't, by the way, think that we need this
particular piece of syntactic sugar, regardless
of the syntax we dress it up in.

John Roth

>
>
> -- 
> Steve Horne
>
> steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk





From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep  4 15:53:18 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:53:18 +0200
Subject: xml.dom.minidom -  bug ? future ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062699863.20764.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062699863.20764.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj8577$5r7$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Roman Yakovenko wrote:

> 	Hi. What I don't understand is why I dump to xml string that contains
> new - lines and when I read it from xml new lines replaced by spaces. 
> May be I do something wrong?

You should not use new line characters in attribute values. According to 
the XML specification, the XML processor must replace them with white 
space, see

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#AVNormalize

Regards,
Martin




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Sep 23 20:30:31 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:30:31 GMT
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
Message-ID: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

Here is a discussion draft of a potential PEP.
The ideas grew out of the discussion on pep-284.
Comments are invited.  Dart throwing is optional.


Raymond Hettinger

-------------------------------------------------------------

PEP: 323
Title: Add Reverse Iteration Methods
Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2003/03/11 04:49:44 $
Author: Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 23-Sep-2003
Python-Version: 2.4
Post-History: 23-Sep-2003


Abstract
========

This proposal is to extend the API of several sequence types
to include methods for iterating over the sequence in reverse.


Motivation
==========

For indexable objects, current methods for reverse iteration are
error prone, unnatural, and not especially readable::

    for i in xrange(n-1, -1, -1):
        print seqn[i]

One other current approach involves reversing a list before iterating
over it.  That technique wastes computer cycles, memory, and lines of
code.  Also, it only works with lists (strings, for example, do not define
a reverse method)::

    rseqn = list(seqn)
    rseqn.reverse()
    for elem in rseqn:
        print elem

Reverse iteration is much less common than forward iteration, but it
does arise regularly in practice.


Proposal
========

Add a method called iter_backwards() to sequence objects that can benefit
from it.  The above examples then simplify to::

    for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
        print seqn[i]

    for elem in seqn.iter_backwards():
        print elem

The new protocol would be applied to lists, strings, xranges objects,
and possibly other sequence objects as well (depending on use cases
and implementation issues).  It would not apply to unordered collections
like dicts and sets.

No language syntax changes are needed.


Open Issues
===========

* Should tuples be included?  In the past they have been denied some list
  like behaviors such as count() and index().

* Should file objects be included?  Implementing reverse iteration may not
  be easy though it would be useful on occasion.

* Should enumerate() be included?  It would only provide reverse iteration
  whenever the underlying sequence supported it.


Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.






From grante at visi.com  Fri Sep  5 11:55:34 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 15:55:34 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <vlhba85atlte07 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> 
> "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> news:3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
>> In article <vlh7otscuo8gb1 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
>>
>> > Technically, it would be possible to make "self" a reserved
>> > word, and not have to put it in the method declaration.
>> > However, there are a lot of people who use something other than
>> > the word "self," so that would break existing code.
>>
>> It would also make the language more complex and irregular.
> 
> How?

 1) It would add a reserved word.

 2) It would mean that there's some sort of difference between
    a function and a method.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I have a TINY BOWL in
                                  at               my HEAD
                               visi.com            



From xavim at fqingenieria.es  Thu Sep 25 05:39:46 2003
From: xavim at fqingenieria.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Xavier_Mart=EDnez?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:39:46 +0200
Subject: getting a value from a web-page
References: <mailman.1064454334.1269.python-list@python.org> <d3c9c04.0309250049.2f06b7d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <002801c38348$f638afe0$0102a8c0@xavim>

> > Is it possible to get a row from a text-file? This text-file is located 
> > in a web page.
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what it is you are trying to achieve, but you
> might be able to use the urllib() module to download the file. I
> recall the existence of a module which can efficiently extract
> specified rows from a text file - but, alas, I don't recall its name.
> But it wouldn't be strictly necessary, anyway.

Have a look at 'linecache' module.  This will only work with a 
local file, though, so you need to retrieve the file, see 
urllib.urlretrieve() at:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-urllib.html

See also:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-linecache.html
and:
http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/chap1.txt  (a chapter of David Mertz's book
'Text Processing in Python').





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Sep 28 16:03:45 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:03:45 +0200
Subject: unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
In-Reply-To: <o%pdb.26285$os2.362461@news2.e.nsc.no>
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no> <bl3r3r$dno$05$1@news.t-online.com> <m3ad8qa1t2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <o%pdb.26285$os2.362461@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3F773EA1.4010802@v.loewis.de>

Rune Hansen wrote:

> Stalker told me to send the  letter "?" as \248 or as xf8 (notice  the 
> missing "\"). At this point I'm sending 
> quoteattr(unicode('string',"iso-8859-1).encode("utf-8")) which is 
> neither of the above.(..?).

Correct: UTF-8 works differently. I find it surprising that anybody
actually proposes to send non-ASCII characters using xHH, as this
byte sequence my coincidently happen in ASCII text as well.

> Anyway, the  server is still happy, and the data views correctly in the 
> web interface.

It is relatively easy to recognize UTF-8 in the input; it is unlikely
that "real" data look like UTF-8 by coincidence (unlike \-escaping
or x-escaping). So it might be that the server studies the input to
guess the encoding. This is bad style, of course - the protocol should
be clear about encodings (this protocol couldn't be published in an
IETF RFC).

> Stalker provides a perl and java API for the telnet server.  I don't 
> read perl code very well, and the java API is distributed as .class 
> files(nothing new there, it's java after all) so I really don't know how 
> Stalker is handling it.

Even then, you could only find out what the perl and java clients do -
you couldn't tell, from that, what other options the server might support.

Regards,
Martin




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 12:31:08 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:31:08 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu> <cthvmvk3uif5qt1hkftmp2hbdia74fjq3d@4ax.com> <bkp40c$j0o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <_9Vbb.105320$hE5.3711223@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1064315851.23004.python-list@python.org> <sNYbb.148529$R32.4815673@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <c4t0nvc1boj4ki3vo084ngf8bhgdu9cid6@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:29:44 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

>I'd rather
>have the missing upper bound be an error in this case (and rely on
>itertools.count for very explicit building of infinitely looping
>iterators) than "easily create infinities" in response to typos;-).

I probably agree - convenience is nice, but easy-to-make errors are
somewhat less nice.

A compulsory upper bound is probably a good idea. Though maybe
explicitly recognising the strings "+inf" and "-inf" in slice.stop
would be reasonable?


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Sep 12 10:35:54 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:35:54 -0300
Subject: read from file
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F36@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- read? I don't want to re-read the entire file, because that 
#- is a whole 
#- lot of data!!

You can open the file, seek to the last position read, read to the end of
the file, save this position for the next time, and so on...

I'm more concerned about blocking.

.	Facundo




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Sep 25 09:43:20 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:43:20 -0300
Subject: "for" with "else"?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0338300F@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Is this to be expected?
#- (python 2.2.2)

The else after the for is always executed, except when you break the for:

>>> for i in range(3):
	print i
else:
	print "done"

	
0
1
2
done
>>> for i in range(3):
	print i
	if i > 1:
		break
else:
	print "done"

	
0
1
2
>>> 

.	Facundo





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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
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From rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au  Thu Sep  4 22:53:58 2003
From: rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au (Chris)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 02:53:58 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
Message-ID: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com>

Hi

I am posting this on both the perl and python groups

My intention is not to start a war or anything else, I would just like 
some pragmatic advice.

My apologies to the python group I am not very conversant with Python at 
this stage. that could change soon though.

OUTLINE 

I am developing a software project where a major portion of it is to 
enable script access to c++ classes  

The idea is to extend the basic functionality of the program by allowing 
third parties to write add ons that are called by my c++ classes as 
virtual functions.

So if I call vfunction(); and an add on has been written that redefines 
this function (and possibly calls the base c++ function) that it is 
called correctly.

I have chosen perl and python as my preferred languages because of the 
large developer base for add ons

The interpreter will only have a subset of the standard funtionality, for 
example sockets will be removed.

QUESTION

Given the above which interpreter is most likely to fit my bill with the 
smallest footprint ?

Thanks in advance
Chris



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Sep 19 12:47:56 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:47:56 -0600
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030919104658.03a0b9b8@66.28.54.253>

At 10:37 AM 9/19/2003, Leeds, Mark wrote:

>I did more investigation into my previous problem
>and what happens is that my text file has \r for representing
>a new line instead
>of a \n. is there a way to tell the readlines
>function that the symbol for a newline is \r rather
>than \n ? right now the readlines function reads
>the\r as another item in the list and just puts
>everything into one big list because it
>doesn't find any new line characters.
>  thanks. i'm really stuck because
>i can't read my data right now.

bigList = foo.readlines()
niceList = bigList.split('\r')

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

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From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep  1 08:28:51 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:28:51 GMT
Subject: super question
References: <hv76lv0bl83pou18b7a8k083fi6fra9din@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3k78s3dc3.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Gon?alo Rodrigues <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> Ok, now I'm really confused. What is supposed
> 
> super(<class>, <subclass of class>)
> 
> to do?

My *guess* (and it is very much a guess) is that super(<class>,
<subclass of class>) is intended to be used in classmethods.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Wise frogs would take sanctuary in the cool moistness of the cat's
  milk-dish, from where they would watch you.  It's worrying being
  watched by a milk-dish.               -- Tanuki the Raccoon-dog, asr



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Sep 18 15:49:11 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:49:11 -0600
Subject: mutex? protecting global data/critical section
In-Reply-To: <3F6B5491.9020907@sympatico.ca>
References: <3F6B5491.9020907@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200309181349.11516.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Friday 19 September 2003 01:10 pm, Brian Alexander wrote:
> Hello;
>
> I am trying to protect some global data, which may, in the future, be
> accessed by threads. I'm not sure how to implement a locking mechanism
> in python. Here is the idea I'm trying to express:
>
> class resourceManager(object):
>   def __init__(self):
>    self.__resources = 100
>
>   def getResource(self):
>    BEGIN CRITICAL SECTION HERE
>    if self.__resources > 0:
>     self.__resources -= 1
>     * other related state information adjusted, too *
>    else:
>     emergencyCode()
>    END CRITICAL SECTION HERE
>
> How is this accomplished? Does anyone know of a simple example?

The basic idiom is to create a lock object somewhere:
lock = threading.Lock()
...

and then your critical section looks like:

lock.acquire()
try:
  dostuff
finally:
  lock.release()

-Dave




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Sep  5 12:13:21 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:13:21 +0300
Subject: How do I match this with re
References: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13031B74D2@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz> <mailman.1062719806.4813.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oechlv0pqfns5fto3n28b2vgcpj3fvuto8@4ax.com>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:54:56 +1200, rumours say that "Tony Meyer"
<ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz> might have written:

[snip: my mentioning of the usefulness of the redemo.py script]

>For those that like a more GUI sort of thing, I highly recommend kodos:
>
><http://kodos.sourceforge.net>
>
>Basically the same thing but with a GUI.  All in Python, of course.

I browsed the kodos home page and it seems interesting, but you do know
that redemo.py is a Tkinter program and already has a GUI, don't you?

Because "basically the same thing but with a GUI" should be changed into
"basically the same thing but with a QT-based GUI".
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Sep 17 16:07:36 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:07:36 -0500
Subject: Money data type
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F8D@escpl.tcp.com.ar> ("Batista,
 Facundo"'s message of "Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:28:34 -0300")
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F8D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <m24qzbp4af.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Batista," == Batista, Facundo <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> writes:

    Batista,> Can't find it.  I mean something like:

This has come up a few times before.  Check google groups -- search
for

  money group:comp.lang.python

John Hunter




From john at rygannon.com  Mon Sep 15 12:09:09 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:09:09 +0100
Subject: Could somebody please explain what is happening ....
References: <3f657f95$0$10968$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3f65e28b$0$11003$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

John Dean wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I have been reading quite a lot of Python source code recently and I have
> come across a particular construct which I don't understand. I would be
> grateful if somebody could explain the reason for including the following
> lines of code. I have seen it only at the beginning of a module:-
> 
> global sys
> import sys
> 
> global os
> import os
> 
> ....
> ....
> 
> I know what global means and I know what import means but what is the
> reason for making an imported module global?
> 
Thank you to all who posted an answer. I was begining to think I was going
nuts or something. Even though I am new to Python I knew something was
wrong


---
Best Regards
John



From fuerte at sci.fi  Tue Sep 16 14:43:37 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:43:37 +0300
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <007a01c37c7f$c5fc6850$21795418@dell1700>
References: <007a01c37c7f$c5fc6850$21795418@dell1700>
Message-ID: <3F6759D9.6030304@sci.fi>

Brian Quinlan wrote:

>>There is no object-level locking in my proposal. Just independent
>>free-threaded interpreters, which don't see the objects of other
>>interpreters at all.
>>    
>>
>OK, but this is useless to the average Python programmer. It is only
>useful to people embedding Python interpreters in multithreaded
>applications. I would imagine that this represents <1% of Python users.
>
No, all Python developers who create threads would benefit as well. It's 
probably another 1%.

>>There could be an extra global interpreter state for shared-memory
>>object access. Accessing this would always be synchronized, but only
>>this. Python would automatically copy data from this state to
>>thread-local state and back when needed. This would require a special
>>syntax for variables in global state:
>>    
>>
>
>So now you want to change the language definition for the benefit of a
>small minority of users?
>  
>
No, change the language definition (if needed) for the benefit of real 
multitasking.

Harri

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From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 22 23:39:14 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:39:14 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:47:05 -0400, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in
>message news:oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1 at 4ax.com...
>>
>> PEP315 (Enhanced while loop) suggests a syntax as follows...
>>
>>   do:
>>     ...
>>   while condition:
>>     ...
>
>I've snipped the rest of your lengthy analysis because I think
>the problem is much deeper, and is essentially insoluble given
>the structure of Python.
>
>The difficulty is that there is no clear and obvious way of
>distinguishing subordinate groupings from the main grouping.
>
>Consider the if statement:
>
>if something:
>    blah blah
>elif something_else:
>    blither
>else:
>    bletch
>
>If we look at this, without knowing the syntax of the
>if statement, it looks like three primary statements.
>There is no a priori way of knowing, from the lexical
>structure of the language, that elif and else cannot
>occur by themselves, but must be preceeded by
>a specific statement. You need the additional layer
>of the syntactic relationships.

I disagree. You seem to saying that the *only* relevant aspect of the
lexical structure is the use of indentation and colons. I say the use
of distinctive keywords for continuation-of-same-block-structure such
as 'elif' or 'else' is easily sufficient clarification.

The PEP315 system of...

  do:
    ...
  while condition :
    ...

is IMO broken simply because there is no lexical indicator in that
'while' line that it is a continuation rather than a new structure. It
isn't a distinctive keyword because 'while' can obviously be the start
of a loop.

'break if <condition> :', however, is lexically clear at the point
where it is written - the 'break' on itself isn't distinctive, but the
'if' following straight after makes it unambiguous that this is a
continuation of an existing loop rather than a separate break
statement.

>Consider the same structure in Ruby:
>
>if something
>    blah blah
>elsif something_else
>    blither
>else
>    bletch
>end
>
>The thing that makes all the difference is the "end"
>statement which closes the if. The elsif and the else
>are clauses within the if statement, and there is no
>way of missing that fact even if you don't know the
>exact syntax of the if structure.

If you don't know the syntax of such fundamental things as the basic
block structures in the language, you really shouldn't be reading or
writing code IMO. Especially when these are such common concepts among
languages that you should be able to understand it even if you've
never used Python, simply from experience of virtually any other
imperitive language.

>If we now go back to the loop suggestion,
>it becomes rather obvious what needs to be
>done:
>
>do:
>    bibbity
>    bobbity
>    boo
>    while condition  # note the lack of a colon!

Yuck!!!

This is really no different to the following, which is quoted in the
PEP as something to move away from...

  while True :
    ...
    if condition : break
    ...

The fundamental problem is that the exit point is not obvious because
it is 'hidden' in the detail of the loop - it is a statement within
the loop body instead of being lexically a part of the loop.

Imagine if the if statement with an else clause were written...

  if condition :
    statement;
    statement;
    statement;
    else;
    statement;
    statement;
    statement;

That is basically the situation with break at the moment - it is a
feature of the loop, but it is not lexically related to the loop. It
is IMO useful in terms of readability to make the exit point lexically
a part of the loop - to write it at the same indent level and to add
on the colon.

This is somewhat novel - I can't think of a language that does that.
Ada does have 'exit when' but it treats it as if it were any other
statement in lexical terms. Of course Ada programmers are free to put
the 'exit when' at any indentation level they like, and the approach
of matching it to the indent level of the start-of-loop line is in my
experience far from unusual.

Anyway, the thing is that just because it is unconventional doesn't
mean that it's wrong. Treating 'break' and 'continue' as just another
statement is IMO a mistake.

There is an advantage - being able to break out of the loop from a
nested structure (such as an if) but if the break is conditional
anyway, that justification mostly disappears.

>This is at least unambiguous as to what is
>going on.

I don't think 'break if' would be unambiguous. I think it would be
less unambiguous than your suggestion, in fact, for two reasons...

1.  Your suggestion is distinct from having an inner while loop *only*
    because it lacks a colon at the end of the 'while' line. That,
    IMO, is a recipe for confusion.

2.  Your suggestion has the 'while' line as a standard statement, and
    thus at the same indentation level as any other statement. When
    reading code it would be very easy to miss this loop exit point.

>I don't, by the way, think that we need this
>particular piece of syntactic sugar, regardless
>of the syntax we dress it up in.

You may be right - but the PEP still exists, has been around since
April without being rejected, and claims to be scheduled for inclusion
in 2.4.

Syntactic sugar is basically what high level languages are about -
readability and maintainability being the key benefits (though you are
free to write machine code directly in hex - to avoid the syntactic
sugar called assembler - if you really want) - but the syntax
currently described strikes me more as syntactic vinegar. An alternate
syntax proposal seems to me more of a positive way forward. Though my
record in these matters is somewhat less that 100% (around 0% in fact)
so feel free to call me an idiot.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From raizor at rtcwonline.com  Sat Sep  6 14:49:52 2003
From: raizor at rtcwonline.com (raizor at rtcwonline.com)
Date: 6 Sep 2003 18:49:52 -0000
Subject: Unreachable
Message-ID: <20030906184952.24153.qmail@amerihosting.com>

This email address is unreachable. It has been closed.






From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Sep 18 01:18:25 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:18:25 GMT
Subject: Where's UserList.ListMixin?
References: <3a8e83d2.0309172019.74d6fca9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Bebab.9323$hl4.4031@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Matthew Barnes]
> This may be a naive question, but since Python 2.3 added a handy
> little DictMixin class to its UserDict module it seems to me like
> UserList.ListMixin and maybe even UserString.StringMixin should have
> followed (although I'm not sure how useful a StringMixin class would
> really be).

Use cases have to come first.  Do you see modules in the library
or in common applications where this has immediate use?
When I developed DickNixon, er, DictMixin (not the former President),
there were immediate applications in shelve, dumbdbm, and some of
my own apps.

As a starting point, look in calendar.py to see whether your idea
would have helped implement _localized_day and _localized_month.
I think these classes are typical of objects that try to dynamically
simulate list behavior.


>  Should I submit a patch?

It is best to start by submitting a recipe to the ASPN Cookbook.
There, the idea can be refined, use cases established, and a fan
club formed.   At that point, it could be a candidate for inclusion
in Py2.4.

It may be best to start which an easier challenge like TupleMixin
and then add mutuable behaviors to a ListMixin subclass.  An
even easier start is to build a RichComparisonMixin that
transforms == and < into <=, >, >=, and !=.

If you want to show-off your agile programming skills, develop
the unittest cases before you write your code.

The most important part of the design is thinking out which methods
should be the primitives and whether there should be multiple
levels so that the most natural overrides get used by higher levels
(see the DictMixin code if you don't know what I'm talking about
here).  Try to keep your thinking grounded in reality by examining
real modules which would benefit from subclassing the mixins.

Also, I'm curious as to how you would implement the sort()
method without actually manifesting the whole virtual list;
otherwise, you might as well use list(iterable) and get a real list
(which, BTW, is what _localized_day does using a list
comprehension).

Good luck with your project,


Raymond Hettinger





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep 18 09:24:54 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:24:54 -0400
Subject: ASN.1 source reader
References: <3F69B497.CEF764ED@siemens.com>
Message-ID: <3F69B226.FB267166@engcorp.com>

Tomas Kukosa wrote:
> 
>   does anybody know any way how to read ASN.1 source into Python?
> I can not find any ASN.1 parser.

Which pages in http://www.google.ca/search?q=python+asn.1 were not helpful
for you, and why?

-Peter



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 06:49:39 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:49:39 GMT
Subject: __init__ return value
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FFE@escpl.tcp.com.ar> <16241.58373.833630.615370@montanaro.dyndns.org> <6.0.0.22.0.20030924124805.0346ed20@66.28.54.253> <mailman.1064431774.19742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7RUcb.124463$hE5.4246449@news1.tin.it>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     >> No, __init__ method return values are always ignored.
> 
>     Bob> Oh?
> 
>     >>>> class A:
>     Bob> ...     def __init__(self):
>     Bob> ...             return 'asdf'
>     Bob> ...
>     >>>> A()
>     Bob> Traceback (most recent call last):
>     Bob>    File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>     Bob> TypeError: __init__() should return None
> 
> My apologies.  It is checked and an exception raised if it's not None.
> That's an implementation detail, not a property of the language.

Actually...:

>>> import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters
   [snip]
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.

I _would_ call this "a property of the language".  Returning not-None
from __init__ is most likely an error: ignoring that error silently by
default would be very un-Pythonic indeed.

As a point of contrast, look at Ruby -- a pretty neat language with a
semantic level and application niche QUITE close to Python's, but most
definitely NOT having "errors should never pass silently" as a
property of the language.  Most fundamental errors, say indexing an
array with an index outside of the array's bounds, DO pass silently in
Ruby -- returning nil (like Python's None) for indexing-reads out of
bounds, silently and implicitly padding the array with nil's for
indexing-writes out of bounds.  I think this language property and its
practical implications make an ENORMOUS difference to the approach
one takes when programming in the two different languages...


Alex




From petitmermet at mat.ethz.ch  Fri Sep 19 07:41:19 2003
From: petitmermet at mat.ethz.ch (Marc Petitmermet)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:41:19 +0200
Subject: utf-8 encoding issue
Message-ID: <petitmermet-D88C6A.13411819092003@pfaff2-rz-fast.ethz.ch>

The line below looks up the name "?ttinger" (with the German umlaut) of 
an author using the mysql console:

 mysql> select author from records where author like '%&#xd6;ttinger%';

This successfully finds all entries in the records database where 
"?ttinger" is the author or the co-author.

In a web form, the user enters "?ttinger" and wants to search with this 
search string. My idea is now to convert the search string (which also 
could be e.g. some cyrillic text) into unicode and then to utf-8:

   unicode(search_string).encode('utf-8')

This gives me the utf-8 encoded version of the string but not yet in the 
correct representation. How can I get the correct one (is this the hex 
version? I don't know the correct terminology.)?

In short: how do I e.g. convert a sting containing a "?" into a string 
containing a "%&#xd6;"?

Regards,
Marc



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Sep 22 15:03:30 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:03:30 -0400
Subject: Mailbox cleaner on an IMAP basis?
References: <3f6f2cfb@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <vmuhsrr68tlj27@news.supernews.com>

"F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:3f6f2cfb at news.swissonline.ch...
> Hi all!
>
> As I saw Alex Martelli's post about a mbox cleaner based on POP3, I
thought,
> it could be possible to do that based on IMAP too. That way I could ask
the
> server for mails having attached EXE files and delete all those mails on
the
> server. This would save me a lot of traffic over my phone line connection.
>
> But I'm missing one important thing: How do I get the server to tell me
> about attachments.
>
> What I've found out so far is how to get at the fields:
>
> r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS])")
>
> Alas, there's no such thing like 'filename' or 'attachments'.
>
> And
>
> r, d = i.fetch(1, "(BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (Content-type)])")
>
> doesn't show a file name either.
>
> Any hints?

Right now, I'd simply like something that would clean out an
IMAP mailbox on a regular basis. Most of the worm generated
garbage is going into one of two boxes on my server, and I get maybe
one legitimate e-mail in those two boxes every couple of weeks.
I can stand to lose that level of e-mail, I can't stand to exceed my disk
quota and lose lots of legitimate mail every few hours.

Could you post the code you've got so far?

Thanks.

John Roth
>
> Best regards
> Franz GEIGER
>
>
>
>
>





From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Mon Sep  8 08:10:12 2003
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 12:10:12 GMT
Subject: Ternery operator
References: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <bjhrj4$2loh4$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Andrew Chalk <achalk at xxxmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote:
> Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?

> I.e.:

> fred = (x == 1) ? 12 : 15

> If not, what's the best way to construct the same logic?

   fred = ( x==1 and [12] or [15])[0]

or

   fred = [ 12, 15] [not x==1]

Further hints / explanations 
at http://www.procoders.net/tutorials/boolean

Greetings, Uwe.


-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt   http://www.procoders.net                      
schmitt at procoders.net      "A service to open source is a service to mankind."



From rjc at tampabay.rr.com  Tue Sep 30 13:02:47 2003
From: rjc at tampabay.rr.com (Robert Clayton)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:02:47 GMT
Subject: import  _XXXXXX
Message-ID: <XGieb.29792$Of2.1478090@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

When a Python program declares import _XXXX.
What form is XXXX when the underbar is included (_XXX)?

Thanks





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 23 13:58:50 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:58:50 +0100
Subject: Executing a python script from an HTML link?
References: <tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <vn0tdkg96jlcc7@news.supernews.com> <1t%bb.407$Q44.601209120@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3F7089DA.EB6E9969@hotmail.com>

[Andrew Chalk]
> I want to run the script on the server. 

Then you will need to figure out how to run the script on the server
;-)

If you're not aware of how to do this, then it's probably best for you
to read up on CGI, which is way of getting web servers to execute
scripts (in any language) when the scripts URL is requested.

> The problem is that I don't
> have an html page as an HREF. Viz:
> 
> <tr><A HREF="Fred.htm">Fred</A>
> What replaces Fred.htm to invoke a server-side script?

Whatever is the URL of your script on your server. Examples include

http://www.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/myscript.py
http://www.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/myscript.cgi
http://www.mydomain.com/cgi-bin/myscript.py?paramA=v1&paramB=v2

Your python script should then generate (i.e. print out) an HTML page
when it is run (actually it can generate anything, images included,
but HTML is a good place to start). The server takes the output of
your script and sends it to the requesting browser. The browser has no
way of knowing that the HTML did not come from a static file.

You can read about Python and CGI here:-

http://starship.python.net/crew/davem/cgifaq/faqw.cgi?req=index

There are other "linkage mechanisms" by which you can cause the
execution of scripts on a server, e.g. mod_python, but none is
conceptually as simple as CGI. Also, CGI tends to be more portable
between different server software, and is almost always supported by
hosting providers.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Thu Sep 25 17:24:58 2003
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 14:24:58 -0700
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <09a3d6364c.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <2c60a528.0309240338.1e4dd261@posting.google.com> <87zngu14jn.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0309251324.109d4af5@posting.google.com>

John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:

> I know I don't like them "on principle", but what practical problems
> do they cause?  Do proper HTTP redirects avoid the "back button trap",
> maybe?

Yes, they do. They are also more widely supported by robots (including
search engine spiders) and older and non-desktop browsers (as well as
newer browsers which can have meta-refresh and/or JavaScript disabled).

An HTTP redirect is an unequivocal statement that a resource is elsewhere,
at a transport level. It can be understood and acted on by agents with no
knowledge of HTML or JavaScript (for example Python's urllib), and can
potentially be used to automatically update links.

Meta-refresh (or, less commonly used, Refresh as an HTTP header) was
designed for re-fetching pages that update themselves, such as webcams.
It's still useful for this, although it has yet to be standardised.

Using meta-refresh or JavaScript for a redirect is really a misuse,
and is needed only:

  a. When you need to set a cookie at the same time as doing a redirect.
     Some browsers will not allow a cookie to be set in anything but a
     '200 OK' response.

  b. When your web hosts are exceedingly crappy and don't allow you to
     do proper redirects through server config or CGI.

In these cases I prefer to use JavaScript's location.replace() method (which
also avoids the back button trap), combined with a short-delay meta-refresh
as backup and a plain HTML link in the returned page as backup for the
backup (for robots etc).

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:

> It is claimed that search engines treat meta-refresh with suspicion.
> I don't know if this is true or not.

It's not easy to tell, but Google is known to have 'anti-cloaking' measures
for detecting search engine abuse. Since meta-refresh is commonly used for
sending browsers to a different page than engines, it is possible that
a meta-refresh - likely combined with other indicators Google could find
suspicious - might result in a PR0 block.

More importantly, many robots won't follow a meta-refresh at all. (After all,
they don't want to end up following an infinitely refreshing webcam page.)
So a backup <a> link should always be included.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 15:32:53 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 20:32:53 +0100
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <87znhjkp3u.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
[...]
> Perhaps, but I would have been happier to see a bunch of 
> suggestions for Mr. Useldinger to read, without the negative
> comments about others' suggestions.  Just doesn't feel right
> to me.  Call me mildly ticked, is all.

Why?  Honestly, I don't understand.  You do understand our negative
responses to weren't meant as a personal attack??  I certainly
consider both positive and negative comments about books (or whatever)
to be useful, especially when they come from from people (like you!)
whose opinion I respect or when they give an illuminating argument.
And, in fact, even when they don't even deign to give any reasons --
since that may tell you something in itself ;-)

Sorry for ticking, but certainly not sorry for expressing an opinion.


John



From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Sun Sep  7 09:01:39 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 07 Sep 2003 09:01:39 -0400
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <3F57861C.CE4C2AA9@engcorp.com> <87ptigcp7p.fsf@pobox.com> <3F57A9F5.F579219D@engcorp.com> <bj8el7$12m$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F5868BA.85F506B4@engcorp.com> <bjaomi$ocq$06$1@news.t-online.com> <m3brty8vs2.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org> <b4rjlvs00ptpv9pjat02ug0vlahbnd6equ@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3y8x07nws.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> writes:

> Did I mention that it was *nothing* serious (unless the surgeon runs
> into an uncatched exception...)

:^)  My comment was only half-serious. Maybe GEB looms in my memory
because I was pretty young when I read it, I think I was in junior
high school.

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Sep  7 19:23:28 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:23:28 -0600
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1062997392.14538.python-list@python.org> <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <200309071723.28316.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Monday 08 September 2003 10:43 am, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.1062997392.14538.python-list at python.org>,
>
> Graham Fawcett  <fawcett at teksavvy.com> wrote:
> >Rather than throw stones, I have created a *brand new design* design for
> >Python.org. I am certain that will satisfy both the technical users and
> >the suit-wearing investigators. It borrows the time-honoured stylings of
> >the old Python site, and blends them with some upscale business moxy.
> >
> >Take a look:
> >
> >http://tinyurl.com/mlcv
>
> Many people, me included, won't follow tinyurl links; please provide a
> standard URL, too.

Why? Are you worried that he'll redirect you to kiddie porn or something?




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep  5 10:35:39 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:35:39 -0500
Subject: How to override distutils install?
Message-ID: <16216.40763.547694.321664@montanaro.dyndns.org>

I would like to override the distutils install class.  It doesn't look like
it was designed for that.  Do I have to import distutils.command and
overwrite its install attribute?  I didn't see anything about this sort of
thing in the distutils docs.

Thx,

Skip




From mark at hahnca.com  Mon Sep  1 12:57:23 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:57:23 -0700
Subject: I need a text editor written with text draw calls
Message-ID: <TTK4b.11851$n94.2208@fed1read04>

I am using wxPython (wxWindows) and need a simple non-styled text control
with an arbitrary image background.  Since wx does not support transparent
colored backgrounds on controls, I'm being forced to use a simple pane with
a bitmap loaded and write the text directly over the bitmap with text
drawing calls.

Does anyone know of any existing python code that implements the logic of a
text control with direct calls to painting text on any canvas?  I am not
looking forward to writing this from scratch in this day and age.

I toyed around for a while with the idea of implementing an off-screen
control to a memory buffer and then converting the background color to a
mask to blit onscreen, but then I realized controls only work onscreen.
Then I thought of trying to use printing, but then found out controls can't
go to a printer.  Somebody somewhere in control heaven made the decision
that controls would be forever only present on monitors with opaque
backgrounds.  Talk about an assumed design decision somewhere...





From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Sep 26 16:57:30 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:57:30 +0200
Subject: Still need more feedback Re: Successful installation of mod_python on Apache on Win2k?
References: <cfd500a9.0309261228.7612ec27@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bl29a9$20o$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Rolfe wrote:

> Thank you. I have rechecked my config (shown below) - but I still
> can't get the script (also shown below) to run in mod_python. I've
> tried it in both the /cgi-bin/, and in /htdocs/test/:

(just guessing)

1 The LoadModule path looks suspicous, on windows I would expect
mod_python.dll rather than mod_python.so

2 Did you restart the apache after changing the config file?

Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 15:54:50 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 15:54:50 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1062958095.7471.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-9BB491.12173407092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <bjg2ea$cvp$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <eppstein-9BB491.12173407092003 at news.service.uci.edu>,
David Eppstein  <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>
>Lots of people have been rightly jumping all over the design.  But 
>there's something else that I think is very important in the current 
>python.org front page and missing from the proposed redesign: the text 
>"Welcome to the official website for the Python language."

Don't worry -- some people think that's redundant, but Guido has
Prounounced that it will stay.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Thu Sep  4 15:59:18 2003
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:59:18 +0200
Subject: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <bj85ia$red$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Patrick Useldinger" <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> schreef in bericht
news:opruzmelopdd8opo at news.vo.lu...
> Hi All,
>
> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and am
> trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come across
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last
> few years, about Python or IT in general.
>
> -Patrick
During the holidays I have been reading Michael Crighton's book "Airframe".
This is a nice thriller at the one hand, but I also liked it from
professional perspective: the design of very complex, software intensive,
systems. Unfortunately I don't know how much of the story is the authors
fantasy and how close other parts might be to reality.

regards Gerrit

--
Gaudi systems architecting webpage:
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/






From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Sep  9 03:15:39 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:15:39 GMT
Subject: Codesample for xml/xslt transforming
References: <slrnblris1.fpv.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <pan.2003.09.09.13.16.06.415215@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <xqx65k2whyc.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Thomas Guetttler" <guettli at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

> Am Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:45:54 +0200 schrieb Axel Straschil:
> 
> > Hello!
> > 
> > Im fouling around with xml/xslt and zope. 
> > Now, im seraching for a simple codesample or link
> > for a simple xslt-tranformation in python and libxml
> > or 4Suite.
> > I've test.xml, test.xsl or two vars with the code
> > and wan't to transform it. 
> > Google just helped me for C ...
> 
> 4suite contains examples and tests. You could see how they work.
> 
> BTW, I used to waste a lot of time with xslt. 
> I think you are most of the time quicker with SAX for
> parsing XML and "print" to create XML.
> 
>  thomas
> 

I came to the same conclusion.  XSLT's declarative paradigm runs out
of gas just when the problem gets interesting.  E.g., when the
topology of the incoming data does not match that of the outgoing
data.  From there on in, you are tangled in xml-based procedural code.

What I'd like to see is a good pattern or even code to help set up the
SAX and print code given a neutral representation of the incoming and
outgoing formats.  The neutral reps should be generated from SQL,
XSchema, RELAX/NG, csv headers, etc.  Anything like that out there?


-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 342-5601



From smory at ptdprolog.net  Mon Sep  1 00:41:14 2003
From: smory at ptdprolog.net (Daniel R. Smorey Jr.)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 00:41:14 -0400
Subject: Python Documentation?
Message-ID: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>

I'm looking for a good place for Python documentation.  I'm really lost 
on why it's so hard to find anything when it comes to me looking up a 
particular function in Python.  My example would be the split() function 
of the string module.  Why can't I just go to www.python.org and click 
on Search and then type in split and it bring me to the split() function 
of the string module?  Why does it have to be so hard?  This is what I 
get when I search for split on www.python.org...

http://search.python.org/query.html?qt=split&col=ftp&col=python&col=peps&col=starship

Most of those hits are for the re module, not the string module (which 
in my opinion should be part of python and not a module, but I digress). 
  Why would it not bring up the split function of the string module 
first and foremost?

If I do a search right now on www.perldoc.com for split, I get...

http://www.perldoc.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=split&restrict=perl5.8.0

Right there, the top hit is the slit function, how convenient.

If I go to www.php.net and type in split in the function list search, I 
get...

http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.split.php

I don't even get a hit list, it goes right to the split() function. 
Even more convenient.

I'm trying to learn Python because we're doing some work on the Zaurus 
and there are so many supporting python modules for the Zaurus, that I'd 
like to use it.  I love learning new languages also.  It just gives me a 
bad taste in my mouth when I even think of searching for anything in Python.

Am I searching the wrong place?  Am I choosing the wrong checkboxes on 
the Search page?  I'm at a loss.  Is it really that hard to find 
documentation on the python.org site?

Thanks for hearing my rant and I'm hoping I'm just doing something 
wrong.  I really can't imagine such an organized programming language 
having such a horrible search on their website.




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep 24 10:33:58 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:33:58 -0600
Subject: Try/except vs. if/else
In-Reply-To: <3F706279.9000203@bu.edu>
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com>
 <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com>
 <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org>
 <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com>
 <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it>
 <mailman.1064245938.12315.python-list@python.org>
 <nA2dnd3VipjjEfKiXTWJlg@comcast.com>
 <3F70598E.8020500@bu.edu>
 <3F706279.9000203@bu.edu>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030924082607.0340e008@66.28.54.253>

At 09:10 AM 9/23/2003, Shu-Hsien Sheu wrote:

>Hi,
>
>In my understanding, using try/except rather than if/else is more pythonic.

If/else and try/except are both Pythonic. In many cases you don't even get 
to choose.

>However, sometimes it is difficult to use the later.
>For example, I want to search for a sub string in a list composed of 
>strings. It is considered "possitive" if there is a match, no matter how many.
>
>my_test = ['something', 'others', 'still others']
>
>case 1: try/except
>
>hit = 0
>for i in my_test:
>    try:
>       i.index('some')
>       hit = 1
>    except ValueError:
>       pass
>
>
>
>case 2: if/else
>
>hit = 0
>for i in my_test:
>    if 'some' in i:
>       hit = 1

Consider breaking out of the loop at the first success

for i in my_test:
    if 'some' in i:
       hit = 1
       break
else:
   hit = 0

Iist comprehension can also be an alternative:

hit = [i for i in my_test if 'some' in i]

>It seems to me that in a simple searching/matching, using if might be 
>better and the code is smaller. Try/except would have its strengh on 
>catching multiple errorrs. However, problems occur if the criteria is 
>composed of "or" rather than "and". For instance:
>
>if (a in b) or (c in b):
>    *do something
>
>try:
>    b.index(a)
>    b.index(c)
>    *do something
>except ValueError:
>   pass
>
>The above two are very  different.
>
>Am I right here?

AFAIAC its a mater of style.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Sep  9 08:26:38 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 05:26:38 -0700
Subject: Ternery operator
Message-ID: <1063110398.3f5dc6fe94f18@mcherm.com>

Uwe Schmitt writes:
> Normaly[sic] you should simulate "C ? T : F"
> 
> either by
>              [T,F][not C]
> 
> or
> 
>              (C and [T] or [F])[0]
> 
> in the first case T and F are evaluated[sic] allways[sic],
> the latter solution does short circuit evaluation,
> which is according to the C/C++ semantics of the
> ternary operator.

NOT TRUE!

NEITHER of your options does short-circuit evaluation. That's
part of why many people (myself included) wanted to have a
conditional expression (more accurate term than "ternary operator").
If you want short-circuit evaluation (and sometimes you DO need
it), then use this:

    if C:
        x = T
    else:
        x = F

If you are writing a lambda expression, or are in some other location
where an expression would be simpler and clearer than a 4-line
statement, then too bad. There DO exist alternatives, but they are
even more obscure than Uwe's examples above, and should NOT be used
unless you are writing an obfuscated Python entry.

-- Michael Chermside





From mpeuser at web.de  Thu Sep  4 15:55:44 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 21:55:44 +0200
Subject: quick and smart way for parsing a CSV file?
References: <731fc603.0309031242.4e5493ce@posting.google.com> <3F5656CA.519ABADF@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <bj85d3$iav$03$1@news.t-online.com>

<achrist at easystreet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3F5656CA.519ABADF at easystreet.com...
> Hank wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a CSV file from excel that looks like this (simplified):
> >
.........
>
>
> import csv
>
> dicts  = []
>
> inputFile = open("SomeDurnFileName.csv",  "rb")
> parser = csv.reader(inputFile)

If you do not use Python 2.3 for some reason or other there is a third party
CSV that is fast and workes fine with Python 2.2 (but uses a different
interface of course)
http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/

Kindly
Michael P






From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Sep  2 15:59:45 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:59:45 +0100
Subject: artificial intelligence
References: <mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list@python.org> <bivjim$u9t$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> <K66cnf-bsuHEdM6iU-KYvg@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <bj2sku$48s$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Istvan Albert" <ialbert at mailblocks.com> wrote in message
news:K66cnf-bsuHEdM6iU-KYvg at giganews.com...
> Duncan Smith wrote:
>
> > What do Amazon use?  My guess (unless it's something really naive) would
be
> > association rules.
>
> In my previous job I worked for a research group studying recommender
> systems. We have our own, called MovieLens
>
> http://www.movielens.org
>
> among others we use a so called item-item recommender.
> We compute similarities between items then look at a
> given basket and based on it we choose to recommend the most
> similar items no yet selected. The good thing about this method
> is that item similarities are more static they don't need
> to be recomputed as often.
>
> Istvan.
>

Thanks for the link.  I'll check out some of the more likely looking papers
on the publications page.

Duncan





From toby at rcsreg.com  Sun Sep 14 21:24:34 2003
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 01:24:34 GMT
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
In-Reply-To: <3F6511CD.EF0909CB@alcyone.com>
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <bk2okk$nrhg9$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <75b7596ef938ab8af18b663ddd7eaf50@news.teranews.com> <yu994qzeoqsn.fsf@tinker.research.att.com> <3F6511CD.EF0909CB@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <e641e476f31677c7bd0210a60faf07d0@news.teranews.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Andrew Koenig wrote:
> 
> 
>>How about this instead:
>>
>>        def make_generator(func):
>>            while x = func():
> 
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Not too likely in Python :-).
> 

  Heh!  My point exactly :)




From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep 25 22:20:43 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:20:43 GMT
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <3f71ad83_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <Tnmcb.2151$RW4.8@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <3f736cad_4@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <%nNcb.3635$RW4.47@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Tina Li:
> The lag is *perceivable* (this is what I meant; sorry) by a human user so
it's slower.

Yup, that's what I meant.  Too many people make theoretical
arguments for why to choose one (complicated) approach
over a simpler one on the basis of performance, when it turns
out performance isn't the issue.  My appreciation goes out to you
for doing it the right way.

You may also want to look at pyRXP from ReportLab.
However, there seems to be some drastic problems on their
site -- links on reportlab.com fail and reportlab.org goes
to pair.com's site placeholder page.

It's a very fast XML parser for Python.

> I in fact tried that before but the over-limit error still happened. So
it's
> not just the non-greedy .*? that's causing the problem. Hmm.

No, I don't think it is.  The stack space increases by one for
each ambiguity and the .*? should only produce one ambiguity.
Usually there's a stack problem only if you have an ambiguity
or empty match inside a repeat, and I didn't see that in your
pattern.

If you get really interested in tracking this down, you might look
around for some of the GUI regexp debugging tools.  There's
one in ActiveState's product, as I recall.  Err, but it's based on
Perl's regexp parser and won't handle (?P<>)

(I do have an experimental pure-Python regexp engine that
I would offer for debugging, but it doesn't handle .*? yet and
needs a rewrite before it does.)

> It only handles tags without space because all tags are
> guaranteed to be generated without space.

Sure.  All I was saying was that if you're going to code for
a specific layout then you don't need to be as general.

You might even consider using "[^\n]*\n{5}" if you just
want to skip 5 lines.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com
P.S.
  If you are doing anything open-sourceish, or using
open source in bioinformatics, structural biology, and
related fields, and will be at ISMB in Edinborough next
year, you might consider attending the Bioinformatics
Open Source Conference.





From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 19 01:24:21 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:24:21 GMT
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <1679b.687$Ie5.85963@news20.bellglobal.com> <bkbfh1$8il$3@wheel2.two14.net>
Message-ID: <9qwab.34045$KW1.8747@twister.austin.rr.com>

"Martin Maney" <maney at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:bkbfh1$8il$3 at wheel2.two14.net...
> Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
> > If you must use assignments in expressions, you might find the following
> > recipes useful:
> > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/202234
>
> Did I forget about this one or is it in fact new?  It is, as the author
> says, an ugly hack at the implementation level, but that seems to be
> its only drawback.

I think that the other drawback is that it only works at the top level of a
module. If you are inside a function or method then the locals() (f_locals)
dictionary is still writeable but it has no effect on the namespace it
represents.

So ...

import sys
def set(**kw):
    assert len(kw)==1

    a = sys._getframe(1)
    a.f_locals.update(kw)
    return kw.values()[0]

def main():
    A=range(10)

    while set(x=A.pop()):
        print x

main()

... prints 0,0,0,0,0,0 etc instead of what you want.

I guess you might call "a.f_locals.update(kw)" a no-(side)-effect assignment
;)

Paul





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 20:04:27 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 20:04:27 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bjgh2b$jgh$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Parkin <tim at pollenation.net> wrote:
>Aahz:
>> That said, there likely will be a subsection of python.org that is
>> aimed at managers, with a more designed look and more graphics;
>> someone trying to convince a specific manager could point zir into
>> the subsection.
>
>Fernando:
>> A visible 'corporate' link, along with a single-level url
>> www.python.org/corporate, perhaps even aliased to
>> corporate.python.org) can satisfy the PHBs with minimal effort.
>
>Please don't consider this, the majority of corporate users will find
>the site themselves or through links in articles magazines, etc. so
>they will still get first impressions from the main home page. If
>anything we could provide a developer portal page which may be used
>as a bookmark. Personally I think this is a bad idea also. What is
>wrong with the information architecture / navigation on the page
>proposal. Please could we move this discussion to one of the
>appropriate lists aswell. I suggest python-marketing to begin with.

No.  If we're talking about the web site, it should be pydotorg-redesign
(and the list you're referring to is marketing-python).  Please don't
clutter too many mailing lists.

As I noted earlier, I'm the Lynx champion; I'm not looking at any
designs until they're in HTML.  I'm also not particularly inclined to
look at every single design until we come up with some metrics for
choosing.  (You originally posted your design alongside a flood of
others when I was busy -- website look is not one of my primary
interests.)

Finally, any design I vote for *will* be usable for a large
cross-section of the community.  It may include design elements that
appeal to managers and/or corporate developers, but they will not have
primacy over other groups.  OTOH, I'm in agreement that managers won't
be second-class citizens, either.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From ulope at gmx.de  Mon Sep 22 05:30:07 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:30:07 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de> <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122> <bkim08$f8i$1@news.hccnet.nl> <pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000@hotmail.com> <bkkrau$2uaqf$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <pan.2003.09.21.21.08.04.529981@cfconsulting.ca>
Message-ID: <bkmff1$3bfa7$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Colin Fox" <cfox at cfconsulting.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pan.2003.09.21.21.08.04.529981 at cfconsulting.ca...
> Here's an alternative. I took out the 'if lg in word' logic,
> since that doesn't take into account duplicates and therefore
> would be misleading (ie 'jaguar','jaaaaa' would return 'x.....',
> but there aren't 5 a's in the word).
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import string
>
> def wordcheck(word, guess):
>     outstr = []
>     if len(word) != len(guess):
>         raise "Wrong number of letters in guess."
>
>     for x in range(len(word)):
>         outstr.append( ['-','*'][(word[x]==guess[x])] )
>
>     return string.join(outstr,'')
>
> res = wordcheck('Colin','Coolo')
> print res
>

Yeah your right, but with your code there is no indication of a right letter
in the wrong position.
I guess one has to use a decorate-undecorate thing...
If i have some time later today i will test this...

Ciao Ulrich





From max at fr.fm  Thu Sep 18 17:25:01 2003
From: max at fr.fm (Maxime Biais)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:25:01 +0200
Subject: print and trailing white space
Message-ID: <20030918232501.4f2ab362.max@fr.fm>

Hello,

I know how to print a string without the trailing newline with a coma
like : 

print "hello word",

but this example add a white space after the string :(

Do you know how to avoid this white space without using write()

-- 
Maxime Biais



From arne at rfc2549.org  Tue Sep 23 16:33:22 2003
From: arne at rfc2549.org (Arne Schwabe)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 22:33:22 +0200
Subject: Pygtk, widget refreshing
Message-ID: <uoexbi6st.fsf@r2d2.rfc1149.org>

hi,

I am using python and pygtk.
In my program I want to realize a status thing with a DrawingArea.
But my problem is that this area is not updated while my program is running.
Is there a way I can force pygtk to refresh to widgets?

Arne



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Sep  8 16:30:17 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 16:30:17 -0400
Subject: Making mock (was Re: "Python Redesign" (fwd))
References: <mailman.1062982932.16437.python-list@python.org> <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw@comcast.com> <bjif13$ou8$1@panix3.panix.com> <5XmdnSsEgZVGSsGiU-KYvw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bjiosp$g7c$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <5XmdnSsEgZVGSsGiU-KYvw at comcast.com>,
Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
>news:bjif13$ou8$1 at panix3.panix.com...
>> In article <TsmdnYgCScjFEsGiU-KYgw at comcast.com>,
>> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>What we were directed to was *not* a mockup (model), but an image of a
>>>mockup.  That mislabeling was a source of misunderstanding which
>>>generated part of the criticism.  Please let us keep the useful
>>>distinction between a thing and an image of the thing.
>>
>> And I'll repeat that in addition to Peter's valid point about differing
>> definitions of mockups, Tim was not the person who pointed "us" at it.
>
>So what?  I neither said nor implied so.  The identity of the original
>pointer is irrelevant to the point I made.  And so is repetition of a
>correction of an error I did not make.

It's not so much that the identity of the pointer is relevant as that
the context in which "mockup" is used is important.  I think it's
certainly appropriate, for example, to use "mockup" to describe the
whiteboard of a proposed design during a brainstorming session.  That's
why I made my comment.

>In any case, Parkin also used (and today defended) the word himself in
>his subsequent posts.  Leaving dictionaries aside, the use of the
>disputable word 'mockup' instead of the accurate word 'image' lead to
>unfulfilled expectations and criticisms based thereon.  Indeed, Parkin
>himself deflected such criticisms several times by saying 'its just an
>image' [and not the html mockup some thought it was].

You yourself are now using the phrase "html mockup" as a specific kind
of mockup.  That's an accurate phrasing.

>Do you really think inexact words that lead to misunderstanding are as
>useful as exact words that do not?  Do you really think the
>distinction between object and image is useless?  These are the
>questions I raised and gave my answer to.

The distinction isn't useless, but neither do I think this was an
example of inexact language *in* *context*.  If I specifically wanted to
refer to a non-image mockup, I'd say "working mockup" or something like
that, perhaps "HTML mockup" as you did if I were referring to a web
page.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From rolfedh at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 29 18:39:00 2003
From: rolfedh at hotmail.com (Rolfe)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 15:39:00 -0700
Subject: Still need more feedback Re: Successful installation of mod_python on Apache on Win2k?
References: <cfd500a9.0309261228.7612ec27@posting.google.com> <bl29a9$20o$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <cfd500a9.0309291439.1ca0e66@posting.google.com>

> 1 The LoadModule path looks suspicous, on windows I would expect
> mod_python.dll rather than mod_python.so
> 
> 2 Did you restart the apache after changing the config file?
> 
> Peter

Hi Peter, I checked C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\modules and
found mod_python.so there, so the LoadModule path was okay. When I
made a plain vanilla default RE-INSTALLATION of Apache and mod_python
(see instructions below) everything worked fine. I think I goofed
something up in the previous installation file.


RUNNING MOD_PYTHON/APACHE/WINDOWS2000 

Hi, I struggled, and got mod_python running on Apache/Win2k. Follow
these instructions verbatim and you shouldn't have any trouble. These
instructions are based on
"http://www.modpython.org/live/current/doc-html/inst-testing.html".
I've added specific information such as Windows filepaths and
filenames so there's no ambiguity on what you should do. I encourage
you to copy and paste to avoid typing errors.
Cheers, 

Rolfe 

INSTALLING MOD_PYTHON 

1. Make a default installations of the latest/best version of Apache. 

2. Make a default installation of the latest/best version of
mod_python.

3. Open C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\conf\httpd.conf in
Notepad.

4. In httpd.conf, just below the line "#LoadModule ssl_module
modules/mod_ssl.so", copy and paste the following section:

#Start of section pasted in by YOURNAMEGOESHERE 

LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so 

<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs/test/"> 

  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 

</Directory> 
<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin/"> 

  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 

</Directory> 
#End of section pasted in by YOURNAMEGOESHERE 

(NOTE: Don't mess around with the other configuration settings in
httpd.conf, - leave good enough alone. Don't worry about the
forward/backward slashes either - it doesn't matter.)

5. Save and close httpd.conf and wait a few seconds. 

6. Restart Apache by clicking the Apache monitor icon in your systray
and selecting Apache2=>Restart.

PROCEDURE COMPLETED 

##### TESTING MOD_PYTHON ####### 

1. Create a directory called "test" in htdocs so you end up with
"C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\test"

2. Create a text file called mptest.py in "C:\Program Files\Apache
Group\Apache2\htdocs\test"

3. Paste the following text into mptest.py: 

from mod_python import apache 

def handler(req): 

    req.write("Hello World!")
    return apache.OK

4. Save and close mptest.py. 
5. In your file browser, copy and paste mptest from "C:\Program
Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs\test" to "C:\Program Files\Apache
Group\Apache2\cgi-bin".

6. Assuming your sitting at the same machine that's running Apache,
enter the URL "http://localhost/test/mptest.py" in your web browser.
The browser displays "Hello World!" and nothing else. This confirms
that Apache can run cgi scripts in the /test/ directory.

7. Repeat step 6 using the URL "http://localhost/cgi-bin/mptest.py"
instead. The browser displays "Hello World!" and nothing else. This
confirms that Apache can run cgi scripts in the /cgi-bin/ directory.

PROCEDURE COMPLETED - mod_python works! 

######## NOTES ######### Remove either of the following sections (from
<Directory to </Directory>) in order to disable cgi scripts in a
particular directory. I understand it is very poor security to run cgi
scripts under htdocs, so I'd try getting rid of that one first.

<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\htdocs/test/"> 

  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 

</Directory> 
<Directory "C:\Program Files\Apache Group\Apache2\cgi-bin/"> 

  AddHandler python-program .py
  PythonHandler mptest 
  PythonDebug On 

</Directory> 
######### ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS ########## Thank you, Steve Holden, for
your guidance. I'm very much looking forward to your book, Python Web
Programming.

Thank you Peter Maas for your response on comp.lang.python



From wt at nic.fi  Fri Sep 19 19:43:41 2003
From: wt at nic.fi (Timo Virkkala)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 02:43:41 +0300
Subject: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
In-Reply-To: <3F6B7FE7.445FB3BF@alcyone.com>
References: <dnfmmv0n8evvu238thm96t3k2iff7dm33d@4ax.com>	 <mailman.1063997966.12324.python-list@python.org>	 <lOqdnaG8ttWUxvaiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1064005948.25386.python-list@python.org> <3F6B7FE7.445FB3BF@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <0tMab.1173$1l5.741@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> significant loads on mail servers.  Unfortunately, running an intensive,
> per-user customized spam filtering solution like Spambayes _increases_
> that load.

I'm using Mozilla MailNews, which has a bayesian filtering system 
built-in. Works like a charm =)

-- 
Timo Virkkala | wt at nic.fi

   "In the battle between you and the world, bet on the world."




From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Wed Sep 17 14:07:50 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 11:07:50 -0700
Subject: texi2html in a cgi ?
References: <8vL9b.30567$Hb.466972@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309171007.28ca7fda@posting.google.com>

Hello ?ystein,

> I get the file with urllib2. No problem. But how can I parse it and 
> display it? I see there is a file in the Python23/Tools/Scripts/ 
> directory called texi2html.py. How can I use the functions from this 
> file to genrate the webpage?
I see two ways:
1. Write the texi file to disk (use tempfile.mkstemp) and run the script
   (using os.system) on it and send back the result
2. Import texi2html (make sure it's in sys.path) and use it (this is not tested...)
----
from texi2html import TexinfoParser, HTMLHelp
from tempfile import mkdtemp
from os.path import dirname, join

def to_html(file):
    '''Convert texinfo to html. Return top html file'''
    outdir = mkdtemp()
    parser = TexinfoParser()
    parser.sethtmlhelp(HTMLHelp("",""))
    parser.setincludedir(dirname(file))
    parser.setdirname(outdir)
    parser.parse(open(file))
    return join(outdir, "%s.html" % parser.topname)

Remeber to delete the directory from time to time ...

HTH.
Miki.

    
> (Unexperienced Python programmer, who has just fallen in love with this 
> beautiful programming language.)
The more you'll know the deeper you'll fall in love :-)



From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 17 10:49:53 2003
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 07:49:53 -0700
Subject: import on modules/files that don't have .py extension
Message-ID: <899f842.0309170649.517e0bb9@posting.google.com>

Is it possible to import modules/files that have something other than
the .py extension?



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep 11 13:33:37 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 18:33:37 +0100
Subject: Newbie-question: Fetching web-address from the browser!
References: <bff50f69.0309110444.55294d83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87pti7fcwe.fsf@pobox.com>

dermoon at hotmail.com (dermoon) writes:

> I want to fetch the address from the web-browser when it
> visits a page on my web-server.
[...]

BTW, this isn't a Python issue, so this is really the wrong newsgroup.


John



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Sep 26 00:49:38 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:49:38 -0400
Subject: Turning Strings into Functions
References: <46610d4e.0309251516.45a8eb01@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <X6ednbQzMfT-WO6iU-KYgg@comcast.com>

"Freddy" <freddycooper01 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46610d4e.0309251516.45a8eb01 at posting.google.com...
> How do you turn a string into a callable function?

If functions are defined as module scope, as is usual, an example:

>>> def f(*args): print args
...
>>> globals()['f'](*(1,'a'))
(1, 'a')

Or you can define your own dict mapping names to functions.

Terry J. Reedy





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 03:56:47 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 03:56:47 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com>
 <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org>
 <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org>
 <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122>
 <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: </SuW/kKkXM7C092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> wrote previously:
|No, that isn't the question.  The question is when someone breaks
|into my home which do I want more in my hand, a .45 (is a caliber, not a
|quote) or a banana.

I'll take the banana.  I'd rather be out a stereo and a laptop than be
dead in a gun fight (or even than harm someone else who merely wants my
money).

|Do this simple test [...absurd story of criminal pathos and bathos...]

The VAST majority of gun violence (or any violence) is between people
who know each other well:  husbands, wives, children, parents, friends,
etc.  Loved ones without guns are many, many times less likely to kill
each other.  Well, actually, the majority is suicide--which roughly
falls under the category described also.

Sure it sounds gruesome to get struck by lightning at the moment you are
getting run over by a railroad... but frankly, it ain't gonna happen.
On the other hand, keeping poison out of reach of children, for example,
seems like a sensible action, even if the much more likely resulting
death wouldn't make for quite as colorful a story as the train/lightning
thing.

Yours, Lulu...




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Mon Sep 15 07:26:18 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:26:18 +0100
Subject: stripping a string
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7BB1@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM> <mailman.1063491501.1341.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l78bmv0uge613epu7lqi15j03d3d1r7ccv@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:15:06 -0600, Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu>
wrote:

>import re
>result = re.findall(r'(\D*)\d*',  source)[0]
>
>will remove any number of trailing digits.

That might give problems if the string could also contain embedded
digits, for example "ANL1 LN32" -- it will truncate at the first
digit.  Spot on if it's what Mark wants, of course, but Jeff's
solution gives what I thought he wanted.

Funny how often when people can't work out how to do something it
turns out that what they want to do isn't precisely specified, isn't
it? :-)



From wolof at freemail.hu  Sun Sep 14 12:09:26 2003
From: wolof at freemail.hu (White Wolf)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:09:26 +0300
Subject: Standards in Artificial Intelligence
References: <bjnqsa$snd$1@news.astound.net> <3f61f9ce@news.victoria.tc.ca> <bjsu6m$6i8$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi> <Cdr8b.4672$MH2.395@news.cpqcorp.net> <bk05gv$di9$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi> <bk0613$q4p$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <bk07cm$hfs$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi> <ce09b.5532$3Y2.560@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bk23rr$7ei$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>

Steve Holden wrote:
> People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Your lazy
> attitude to editing the newsgroups these posting were sent to means
> that as a comp.lang.python reader I have toi listen you you bitching
> and moaning about what's appropriate in comp.lang.c++?
>
> By all means try to keep posters of that group to the charter, but
> DON'T subject others to your diatribes ;-)

*PLONK*
-- 
WW aka Attila





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Fri Sep 26 15:01:04 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:01:04 +0100
Subject: Reduce need of backslash
References: <h4Ycb.75236$PD3.4793080@nnrp1.uunet.ca> <3F745445.D9628351@engcorp.com> <zM_cb.75296$PD3.4794304@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <v029nv4ohqofkcggbcrtehl9j1v3dgjid0@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:34:22 -0400, Nicolas Fleury
<nid_oizo at yahoo.com_remove_the_> wrote:

>What if the second line would be indented?  Indentation is already used 
>to determine blocks, why not instructions?  For example, the following 
>is not error-prone at all:
>
>a = 5 +
>     someFunc()
>
>Doesn't it stay with python minimalistic philosophy?

I don't know the original rationale, but to me this mostly looks ugly.
Maybe I'd get used to it if it happened a lot, but this is rarely an
issue in practice.

Basically, when I need to break an expression over multiple lines, the
odds are that it already has parentheses anyway. And I wouldn't indent
that way anyway, I'd do it as...

a = (  firstitem
     + seconditem
     + (  thirditem
        * fourthitem
       )
    )

... ie using indentation to clarify the structure of the expression
much as I would with block structuring - whether I was using Python or
some other language.

In a way I can imagine some value to putting a statement in
parentheses. It would look very Lispy, but then some would say that's
a good thing.

Occasionally, I go through a phase of thinking semicolons should be
used as compulsory statement terminators rather than as the rarely
used separators they are now - in which case '\' would be completely
redundant - but it really is a trivial issue, whereas the idea of
changing such a fundamental piece of syntax - well, don't go there.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From faizan at jaredweb.com  Sun Sep 21 16:41:04 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 13:41:04 -0700
Subject: Twisted Matrix and Python Scripts
Message-ID: <7b454334.0309211241.4fce86ff@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I am very interested in fooling around with Twisted Matrix's HTTP Web
Server.  I was thinking if .rpy scripts would run much faster than
traditional CGI scripts?

After looking how asynchronous Twisted's framework really is, I have
been interested in it.

Thanks,



From alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net  Mon Sep  8 06:16:21 2003
From: alexander.dejanovski at laposte.net (Alexander DEJANOVSKI)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:16:21 +0200
Subject: pymqi for win32
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030908121401.00ac6a60@194.214.207.101>

I'm having troubles compiling pymqi under win32 with MinGw32( I haven't got 
VC++ ).

Could anybody provide me an already built version for Windows 2000 ?

Thanks.






From ababo_2002 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 11:33:02 2003
From: ababo_2002 at hotmail.com (Daniel Pryde)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 08:33:02 -0700
Subject: Multiple instances of modules
Message-ID: <cf5c25e9.0309150733.4543eada@posting.google.com>

Hi there.

I'm currently trying to learn Python, my aim being to create my final
year project at university using only Python instead of Java. I've run
into a problem though while trying to make multiple instances of
modules.

For example, say I made a CD.py module which held details of an audio
compact dic (album name, track names, etc..), and wanted my Python
script to make a record collection using multiple CD's, I can't make
them seperately. I tried using the 'import module as name' format, but
any changes made to one instance affects the other. I assume this is
because Python is simply referencing the one instance of CD.py rather
than seperate ones. Is there a solution to this that doesn't involve
using cPython or Jython? Any help would be greatly appreciated.



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Tue Sep  9 04:02:41 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:02:41 -0700
Subject: PyGTK and fonts
In-Reply-To: <f5c5dc88.0309081934.76f17ec2@posting.google.com>
References: <f5c5dc88.0309081934.76f17ec2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200309090102.41093.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Monday 08 September 2003 08:34 pm, Tad Marko wrote:
> Howdy!
>
> I'm pretty new to both Python and PyGTK (about 10 hours at this
> point), so please forgive me if this question has already been
> answered somewhere. Basically, I've got a small program with a
> GtkTextView and I'd like to change the font to a monospaced font.
> Preferably the default monspace font for Gnome 2. Can anyone show me
> the steps necessary to programatically change the font on the text
> view?
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
> Tad

I too have about 10 hours experience with PyGTK and GTK+ (but about 10
*years* experience with python).  I just figured out the answer to
your question yesterday.  Here it is with the font name coming from
the return value of a font selection dialog.

    fontName = fontDialog.get_font_name()
    pangoFont = pango.FontDescription(fontName)
    textView.modify_font(pangoFont)

The fontName could be hardcoded rather than comming from a font
selection dialog if you wanted.  Here are some examples, the last two
of which are mono-space fonts:

    Sans 12
    Sans Italic 12
    Sans Bold 12
    Sans Bold Italic 12
    Courier 12
    Luxi Mono 12

Gary Herron







From tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom  Mon Sep 22 12:38:27 2003
From: tina_li23AThotmailDOTcom (Tina Li)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:38:27 -0400
Subject: how to know the number of menu items in a cascade (sub) menu?
Message-ID: <3f6f2742_4@corp.newsgroups.com>

Hello,

I have a menu, "Foo", and a cascade submenu under it, called "Bar", that has
a number of menu items. If I want to delete all of the menu items under
"Bar", but would like to keep "Bar" (i.e. an empty cascade menu with no
items), how do I know how many items there are?

I assume I should use

deletemenuitems("Bar", 0, ???)

It's the last parameter ("end") that I don't know what to put in. I tried to
access "Bar" via self.menuBar.component("Foo-menu_Bar"), or to get the END
index of "Bar" via self.menuBar.component("Foo")[1].index("end") (because
Bar is the second submenu under Foo. I know, hard-coding is bad) but they
don't work.

Thanks much for your help!!!


Tina



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



From mikael at isy.liu.se  Thu Sep  4 04:00:40 2003
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:00:40 +0200
Subject: Writing solid code book
In-Reply-To: <roy-0F3EF6.00055904092003@reader2.panix.com>
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com>
	<87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com>
	<1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net>
	<roy-0F3EF6.00055904092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030904100040.535fdc39.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:06:00 -0400
Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> How many votes does a language need to get to be elected Governor of 
> California?

$ 10**7 ?

/Mikael Olofsson
Universitetslektor (Associate professor)
Link?pings universitet

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  mikael at isy.liu.se
WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/en/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link?pings kammark?r: www.kammarkoren.com

From fuerte at sci.fi  Mon Sep  8 01:57:12 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:57:12 +0300
Subject: Python documentation in Windows Help file format?
Message-ID: <pQU6b.4401$ZB4.1093@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Seems to be missing? It would be great, because it would contain an 
Index and Search features automatically. Now the search is very hard to 
do, and Index page in html format is too big.

The full API and C reference would be great, but even the Quick 
Reference available here would be fine:

http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/python/PQR.html

Unfortunately the Windows compiled help in above seems to be broken.

Here is another:
http://www.orgmf.com.ar/condor/pytstuff.html

But has version 2.2 only. Downloading at the moment.

Harri




From davecook at nowhere.net  Sat Sep 13 20:02:20 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 00:02:20 GMT
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <geO8b.10983$8g2.2715@news1.central.cox.net>

In article <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876 at posting.google.com>, Ubaidullah
Nubar wrote:
 
> Don't they all (PyGTK, wxPython, etc.) use the underlying GUIs (e.g.
> Windows API/KDE/Gnome, etc.)? So where does the better looking part
> come from? Or do some of them recreate the whole GUI layer?

Gtk does not use the native win32 controls.  There's a theme that apparently
does use the native controls, but I've heard that it's slow.  So it's not
the toolkit to choose right now if native look and feel is an overriding
concern.

> Reading some other threads on this ng, there are posts that mention
> that gtk has issues running under Win32. Are these concerns still
> valid or have they been resolved with the latest version?

The latest version fixes some bugs, but the win32 port is still not very
mature, and does not have as large a community of testers as the unix
version.

Dave Cook



From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Sep 22 17:45:41 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:45:41 -0700
Subject: Calling functions before that are def'ed
References: <944840ff.0309221318.35d2f9cd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vmurc6a9djacd1@corp.supernews.com>

Charles Larry wrote:
> Is there a way to define functions after the main part of a Python
> script?
>
> Example:
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
>
> # this code yields a NameError
>
> print_message("hello world")
>
> def print_message(msg):
>     print msg
>
> I know functions can be put in separate files and imported, but I want
> everything in a single file.  Am I stuck with defining all the
> functions first?  If so, how come at compile-time Python can't look
> ahead in the program and discover the existence of functions referred
> to but not yet defined?

Function definitions are executable statements, so like any other statement
they are executed in the order they are encountered.

If you prefer the style of having functions after your main program, simply
define a main function at the top of your script, and call it at the end.

-Mike





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Sep  7 15:17:34 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 12:17:34 -0700
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1062958095.7471.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-9BB491.12173407092003@news.service.uci.edu>

Lots of people have been rightly jumping all over the design.  But 
there's something else that I think is very important in the current 
python.org front page and missing from the proposed redesign: the text 
"Welcome to the official website for the Python language."

If one looks at the proposed redesign, it is difficult to tell whether 
Python is an application, a magazine, a business consulting partnership, 
or what.  It is also unclear whether the site is run by the same people 
responsible for Python, whatever Python is.  Certainly "official web 
site for programming language" is not the first thing that springs to 
mind.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Sep  2 05:41:02 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:41:02 +0100
Subject: homebrew 2.3 install on RedHat9 not playing nice with Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <200309020451.h824pgv9031012@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200309020451.h824pgv9031012@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200309021041.02665.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Tuesday 02 September 2003 5:51 am, Anthony Baxter wrote:
> >>> Martin Franklin wrote
> >
> > Red Hat Linux: Red Hat 9 built Python2.2 in UCS-4 mode and hacked
> >         Tcl to support it. To compile Python2.3 with Tkinter, you will
> >         need to pass --enable-unicode=ucs4 flag to ./configure.
> >
> > Which I did and now _tkinter.so is building  of the box
> > so in answer to OP read the README;-)
>
> Note that this will "work", but the resulting tk applications will leak
> memory like a sieve.
>

Thanks Anthony, I looked at your site a few minutes after sending my reply..  
Indeed if the OP wants to use tk 8.3 then he should use your RPM's

I was kind of pushing him into updrading Tk at the same time as Python...


Cheers,
Martin








From claird at lairds.com  Thu Sep  4 17:33:25 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:33:25 -0000
Subject: Drag and drop in Tkinter. How difficult is it?
References: <ApGdnUgAC6p1AMuiU-KYuA@comcast.com> <vle0j01npmca27@corp.supernews.com> <4378fa6f.0309041125.49b13fc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlfbt52cbrq1da@corp.supernews.com>

In article <4378fa6f.0309041125.49b13fc7 at posting.google.com>,
Marc <mnations at airmail.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>1) If I want to have a moving object, and not just a cursor that
>represents the moving object, do I need to continually pack and unpack
>the widget that holds the object and redraw it to give it the
>appearance of moving? I know sometimes the redrawing can cause
			.
			.
			.
No!  Just move the canvas object to follow the Motion events.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep 16 22:56:54 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:56:54 -0400
Subject: None, False, True
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <3f675ecd$0$97184$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <5MJ9b.13244$x21.9088@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <roacnZ9M-5TqUPqiXTWJkw@comcast.com>

"M-a-S" <NO-MAIL at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5MJ9b.13244$x21.9088 at twister.southeast.rr.com...
> I mean what are None, False and True? Are they just identifiers? Are
they
> variables defined in __builtins__? Are they literals? Are they
language "bricks"
> like "for" and "1"?

You are trying too hard ;-)

They are currently names in the builtin namespace bound to PyObjects,
just like all other builtin names.  That means that they can be
shadowed by global or local names, just like all other builtin names.

There is a proposal to change the status of None, and possibly, True
and False, sometime in the future.  Hence the warning (also issued
because reassignment of None is likely a mistake).

Terry J. Reedy





From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 24 21:43:25 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:43:25 -0700
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <bksi8l$5bce8$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <sdlcb.286$kD3.107@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bktgut$5sn5d$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| Yes, you can still download the individual HTML files at:
|  http://www.python.org/ftp/python/doc/2.3.1/

Raymond .... 

    Thanks for the reply .... 

    I'd like to see the Docs as always a separate download 
    from the standard distribution to provide a bit leaner
    download for those who don't program and aren't interested ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sat Sep 20 23:19:36 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:19:36 -0600
Subject: What is the meaning of the astarisk in Python
In-Reply-To: <vmpr8h4tbkcec7@news.supernews.com>
References: <3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
 <vmpr8h4tbkcec7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030920211915.032fe780@66.28.54.253>

At 06:13 PM 9/20/2003, John Roth wrote:


>"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message
>news:3f6ce54f$0$10962$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> > Hi
> > Below is a line taken from Andy Dustman's MySQLdb module:
> > def Connect(*args, **kwargs):
> >
> > I would be grateful if somebody explain the meaning of the astarisks,
>since
> > I was under the impression that pointers are not used in Python and the
> > above look very must like pointers to me
>
>One asterisk creates a list of all positional arguements,

Do you mean tuple?

>two asterisks creates a dictionary of all keyword arguements.
>"All" means "not otherwise represented in the parameter list."

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From faizan at jaredweb.com  Sat Sep 20 14:23:24 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 11:23:24 -0700
Subject: Sending SMS...
References: <7b454334.0309131130.59cf64fa@posting.google.com> <1063558054.822575@newsmaster-03.atnet.at>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0309201023.6ee6842f@posting.google.com>

Guenther Starnberger <gst at sysfrog.org> wrote in message news:<1063558054.822575 at newsmaster-03.atnet.at>...
> Fazer wrote:
> 
> hello,
> 
> > Can anyone point me to a way on how to send a SMS message using Python?
> 
> an alternative to the already suggested SMS-webgateway would be to use the
> ICQ-SMS-gateway ('worldwide' SMSs, no advertisements).
> 
> either use libicq2000[1] directly (but afaik there are no python bindings
> yet), or setup a local jabber[2] server with an aim-transport[3] to which
> you can connect with python by using jabberpy[4].
> 
> cu
> /gst
> 
> [1] http://libicq2000.sf.net/
> [2] http://www.jabber.org/about/overview.html
> [3] http://aim-transport.jabberstudio.org/
> [4] http://jabberpy.sourceforge.net/

Wow, thanks for the reply!  It was really helpful.  Exactly what I was looking for.



From rummanddan at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  1 05:11:47 2003
From: rummanddan at hotmail.com (Dan Thrue)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:11:47 +0200
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3f530ea6$0$32489$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>

Daniel R. Smorey Jr. wrote:
> I'm looking for a good place for Python documentation.  I'm really lost 
> on why it's so hard to find anything when it comes to me looking up a 
> particular function in Python.  My example would be the split() function 
> of the string module.  Why can't I just go to www.python.org and click 
> on Search and then type in split and it bring me to the split() function 
> of the string module?  Why does it have to be so hard?  This is what I 
> get when I search for split on www.python.org...
> 
> http://search.python.org/query.html?qt=split&col=ftp&col=python&col=peps&col=starship 
> 
> 
> Most of those hits are for the re module, not the string module (which 
> in my opinion should be part of python and not a module, but I digress). 
>  Why would it not bring up the split function of the string module first 
> and foremost?
> 
> If I do a search right now on www.perldoc.com for split, I get...
> 
> http://www.perldoc.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=split&restrict=perl5.8.0
> 
> Right there, the top hit is the slit function, how convenient.
> 
> If I go to www.php.net and type in split in the function list search, I 
> get...
> 
> http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.split.php
> 
> I don't even get a hit list, it goes right to the split() function. Even 
> more convenient.
> 
> I'm trying to learn Python because we're doing some work on the Zaurus 
> and there are so many supporting python modules for the Zaurus, that I'd 
> like to use it.  I love learning new languages also.  It just gives me a 
> bad taste in my mouth when I even think of searching for anything in 
> Python.
> 
> Am I searching the wrong place?  Am I choosing the wrong checkboxes on 
> the Search page?  I'm at a loss.  Is it really that hard to find 
> documentation on the python.org site?
> 
> Thanks for hearing my rant and I'm hoping I'm just doing something 
> wrong.  I really can't imagine such an organized programming language 
> having such a horrible search on their website.
> 


Hi Daniel,

Me and a friend am about to finish a project in a couple of weeks, that 
maybe fits your needs.

We are currently documenting the parts if python, we meet in our daily 
python development (Some gaming software where we mix native delphi with 
python. This mixture has surprised us a lot, we are indeed python 
fanatics now, hehe).

The documentation takes contributions on example snippets, description, 
etc. so when the site is completely done and a base of documentation 
have been posted, im gonna post link in here, then maybe the community 
will help us to create a great documentation source :) And find the 
errors we might post :)

Regards all,
Dan




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 13:44:02 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:44:02 -0400
Subject: in Ram database?
References: <mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list@python.org> <vlh7sqn1t375ff@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1062776296.7505.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vlhirl5ounpfff@news.supernews.com>

"Andy Todd" <andy47 at halfcooked.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062776296.7505.python-list at python.org...
> John Roth wrote:
>
> > "John D." <lists at webcrunchers.com> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.1062728122.8678.python-list at python.org...
> >
> >>Does anyone know if there is an "in-ram" dictionary based database
> >>for Python.
> >>
> >>I can see some applications where this can really be powerful in
> >>applications requiring 10,000 records or less.
> >>
> >>Is such a database available?   If so,  who is working on it,
> >>or where is it?
> >>
> >>I've heard that Python supports a stand-alone database.   I looked
> >>for it in the Docs,  and see the "dbm" module.   I haven't found
> >>any examples of code,  so don't know how to use them.   I'm one
> >>of those guys that learn through examples,  and have very little
> >>luck in figuring out how to use anything unless I can see examples
> >>of their use.
> >>
> >>My idea is that ALL datums would be Python Dictionary objects,  so
> >>not only can you store data,  but python objects as well.
> >>
> >>Storage to disk would be through pickled files,  or through CSV
> >>format,  allowing easy import and export from other databases.
> >>
> >>I'm sure something like this exists,  I just haven't found it yet,
> >>and if not,  then I'm well on my way of implementing one myself.
> >>
> >>I kinda like the idea of being able to define smaller tables as
> >>"in-memory" types,  and the really large massive ones in other forms
> >>managed by mySQL, PostGres, or bsddb3 databases.
> >>
> >>Any leads you guys???
> >
> >
> > Look at Prevalyar. While it's a Java project, it might give
> > you some ideas about what's possible if you forget "data base"
> > and simply think "persistance."
> >
> > John Roth
> >
> >>JD
> >>
>
> Or you could look at the Python port of Prevayler (well, thats how it
> started out);
>
> http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PyPerSyst

Thanks for the reference.

John Roth
>
> Regards,
> Andy
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>  From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/
>
>
>





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 24 11:29:27 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:27 -0400
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com>

Anthony Baxter wrote:
> 
> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
> happy to announce the release of Python 2.3.1 (final).

The highlights mention the existence of a new API PyThreadState_SetAsyncEnc,
which is "deliberately accessible only from C", that can interrupt a thread 
by sending it an exception.

I can't find an online discussion of this, so I'm asking here.  Why was this
made accessible only from C?  Is it dangerous?  Experimental?  Someone feels
it will be used inappropriately if too readily available at the Python level?

Presumably somebody will come up with a little extension module or other 
technique for calling this which will let anyone use it at will, so I'm unclear 
on why it should be made inaccessible from Python.

-Peter



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 24 19:22:30 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:22:30 +0300
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <tth3nvcb9oprv23bincf80c74051227vgv@4ax.com> <vdlcb.287$kD3.194@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <bksos0$jvi$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <ln94nv0k81rdhkv9df39u94rhelmcpguo9@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:46:16 +0200, rumours say that Peter Otten
<__peter__ at web.de> might have written:

>      # let inifinite iterators identify themselves     
>      assert not hasattr(obj, 'infinite') 
>
>As infinite iterators are rare, it would not be too cumbersome to let them
>identify themselves as such.

This is an interesting idea.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From cygwin-announce-help at cygwin.com  Thu Sep  4 21:29:25 2003
From: cygwin-announce-help at cygwin.com (cygwin-announce-help at cygwin.com)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 01:29:25 -0000
Subject: confirm unsubscribe from cygwin-announce@cygwin.com
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From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep  5 11:11:20 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:11:20 GMT
Subject: safari (was Re: Writing solid code book)
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <elC5b.11632$hE5.410636@news1.tin.it> <b15d2792.0309040605.4d8e5f21@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sI16b.28606$R32.850357@news2.tin.it>

post400 wrote:
   ...
> yes Safari seems ok , you get a few days for free to browse but it's
> not totally free.I think the electronic version should be free.Some

safari is only free for two weeks; then, if you like the service it
gives you, you can choose to continue a (paid) subscription.

I'm not sure on what basis you intend your use of "should".  Do you
mean that you believe it would be in publishers' best interests to
offer electronic versions free -- that it would enhance the sales
of their paper versions producing a greater total profit than having
online books as a for-pay service does?  If so, then it would be
interesting to understand on what basis you form that judgment.

O'Reilly, in particular, publishes paper versions both of books that
are also available for free download elsewhere, _and_ of books that
are not thus avialable.  Presumably, therefore, they have available
very good historical data to convince them that their policies are in
fact the best currently available to them -- knowing Tim O'Reilly's
ideas, policies, and openness to novelty, you surely can't be
accusing him of "persevering by sheer inertia" in his policies.

Or is your "should" predicated on some ethical objection against
such people as book authors and editors receiving compensation
for their efforts?  Speaking as a book author, I can confirm that
the amount of money I earn from writing, divided by the number of 
hours I spend writing, is roughly comparable with legal minimum
wage (depending on jurisdiction -- such minima may be higher in
most of Europe than in the US), and *WELL* below the hourly income
I can make by professional consulting.  Were I to contemplate the
possibility of would-be freeloaders trying to dictate what I
"should" do (without deigning to mention WHY they think I should),
it might perhaps anger me just enough to deter me from my former
intention of making my next coming book freely available.  So, I
would appreciate some explanation of your assertion.


> people offer their books for free , Bruce Eckel for example and his
> Thinking in Java which seems to be a good book.Maybe more writers
> should do the same !

"Thinking in Java" is indeed excellent, and no doubt the feedback
from people who freely downloaded it helped Bruce make it so.
However, I do notice that Bruce's long-planned "Thinking in
Python" seems to be languishing without end.  Perhaps this means
that books addressing a huge market for which there are hundreds
of competitors (Java, C++) _are_ indeed profitable to make freely
downloadable (at least if only a minority of authors are so doing,
assuming part of the profit comes from competitive considerations),
but books addressing a smaller market, such as Python, aren't.

As for me, I'm operating on a different assumption (which is not
necessarily contradictory to the possibility outlined in the
previous paragraph) as to what distinguishes books that are best
made freely available online from those which are not; but I have
as yet no experience to back me up (the only "free book" I have
out on the net -- a primer on win32 API GUI programmin in C, in
Italian -- is incomplete and not available in any for-pay form,
only in the free online version).

Several other authors have experience publishing both books that
are also available for free, and ones that aren't.  Hearing from
them would be very interesting, at least to me.


Alex




From ceiesa at excite.com  Sat Sep 27 21:10:21 2003
From: ceiesa at excite.com (Bruce Dickey)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:10:21 -0600
Subject: [joke] Any tool to translate PHP to Python?
In-Reply-To: <3f75f5b8$0$20650$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <vnbnv0c5g01rff@corp.supernews.com> <3f75f5b8$0$20650$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <vncdncfj0csgdf@corp.supernews.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Bruce Dickey wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have some PHP scripts I'm moving from my web server to the local PC. 
>> They just do file manipulation.
>>
>> Anybody know of a tool for translating PHP to Python? 
> 
> 
> Er... What about a programmer ?-)
> 
> (sorry, could not resist)
> Bruno
> 

Heh heh. Point taken. I actually *was* assuming I would be the tool -- 
I've been around Python long enough to have seen most of the resources 
for desktop apps.

But Python web scripting I have not gotten into or read much about. It 
appears to me that Python is increasing in popularity, not only on the 
desktop, but also on the web server.

It seems to me that for folks migrating from PHP to Python, a translator 
would be a handy tool. Especially if they have a large site to convert. 
It would be a tool useful to a large number of people.

Bruce




From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 14:35:42 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:35:42 +0100
Subject: embedding python and new-style classes
References: <bl9q3d$3lo$1@houston.jhuapl.edu>
Message-ID: <fdugnv8sk2c3b7j7s1p8r8m05frcfnsu92@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:28:13 -0400, "mike" <me at no.where> wrote:

>If someone could tell me the proper
>API calls for  instantiating a new-style class, or point me to an example,
>I'd really appreciate it.

I'm relatively new at extending/embedding so I don't know if this has
changed, but doing this recently I simply noted that Python class
objects are callables and that calling them returns an instantiation.
I use Boost.Python, but I imagine you can simply use
PyObject_CallMethod with the class object.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 15 09:02:51 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:02:51 +0200
Subject: caching the sql queries
In-Reply-To: <uhe3eb66l.fsf@inout.no>
References: <606bmvkbbs2dup8slqnoueaq26moiq2e8n@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1063625720.2467.python-list@python.org>
	<uhe3eb66l.fsf@inout.no>
Message-ID: <3F65B87B.1010802@ghaering.de>

Syver Enstad wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
>>In my opinion, this sort of caching should really be done in the
>>application layer, not in the database access layer.
> 
> I didn't know that PHP programmers used layers at all :-) 
> 
> On a more serious note, Why do you think caching should be
> implemented in the application layer (is this the same as the
> domain/business layer) rather than the database access layer?

Yes, a dozen different terms for the same thing ;)

It's mostly gut feeling about what's the right approach, which has 
served me well quite often :-)

If I needed to state reasons, I'd say that the business layer can assure 
data consistency, while with this simplistic approach, the database 
layer (*) cannot.

-- Gerhard

(*) "database access layer" may sound like something important, but in 
my projects, it's only a thin layer on top of DB-API/ADO.NET/... that 
provides shortcuts for the most common use cases and allows switching 
database backends more easily.




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Sep 23 14:18:21 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 19:18:21 +0100
Subject: problem using urllib2: \n
References: <7cb14f9.0309230800.8d3a28b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <874qz3cqs2.fsf@pobox.com>

bmiras at yahoo.com writes:

> I've got a problem using urllib2 to get a web page.
> I'm going through a proxy using user/password authentification
> and i'm trying to get a page asking for a HTTP authentification.
> And I'm using python 2.3
> 
> Here is an exemple of the piece of code I use:
> 
> import urllib2
> #Proxy handler
> proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" :
> "http://proxyuser:proxypassword at myproxy:8050"})
> 
> #Site auth handler
> 
> site_auth_handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler();
> site_auth_handler.add_password( "This Realm", "www.mysite.com",
> "siteuser", "sitepassword" );
> 
> 
> opener = urllib2.build_opener( site_auth_handler,
> urllib2.HTTPRedirectHandler, urllib2.HTTPHandler , proxy_handler)
> urllib2.install_opener(opener)

Looks OK (but I don't use a proxy, nor basic auth very often...).

Just as a BTW: you don't need to pass HTTPHandler or
HTTPRedirectHandler in there: build_opener adds them whether you ask
for them or not.


> req = urllib2.Request('http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage')
> page = urllib2.urlopen(req)
> 
> I got a 401 error.

So presumably your proxy is happy, but the site is not.  Could you
test that theory by urlopen()ing a URL that *doesn't* require any
authentication?  Just:

# ...your code up to install_opener goes here...
print urllib2.urlopen("http://www.python.org/").read()


> Analyzing the request using 'strace' I can see the following request
> sent to the proxy:
> 
> GET http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage HTTP/1.0\r\nHost:
> www.mysite.com\r\nUser-agent:
> Python-urllib/2.0a1\r\nProxy-authorization: Basic
> XXX\n\r\nAuthorization: Basic
> YYY\n\r\n\r\n

(You probably didn't want to post your usernames and passwords to a
public newsgroup.  They're reversibly encoded, so anyone can decode
them.  I've replaced them with XXX and YYY in the quote above.)


> As you can see there is additionnal \n sent to the server just after
> the Proxy-authorization and the Authorization fields. I think that in
> this case the web server get only this part:
> 
> GET http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage HTTP/1.0\r\nHost:
> www.mysite.com\r\nUser-agent:
> Python-urllib/2.0a1\r\nProxy-authorization: Basic
> XXX\n\r\n
> 
> and so send me back an error 401, since I'm not authenticated for the
> site.

Hmm.  That \n does seem likely to be wrong, but I'm not certain.

The urllib2 code appears to duplicate the code for base64 encoding for
proxy basic authorization (in ProxyBasicAuthHandler and ProxyHandler),
and the code differs between the two classes :-(.  [It looks like PBAH
responds to 407, and ProxyHandler always sends Proxy-Authorization if
it's in the proxy's URL.]  And in fact, only one of them does a
.strip() on the base64 encoded string (they also differ in quoting).
However, the Authorization: header appears to be generated only in one
place (AbstractBasicAuthHandler.retry_http_basic_auth), which *does*
strip, but you've got a \n there, too.  So, I don't understand where
that \n is coming from.  I'd try sticking some print statements in
there to find out what's going on.


> I had a look in the urllib2.py . I think that base64.encodestring add
> an \n at the end of the string. It's the case in the method
> 'proxy_open':
> 
>     def proxy_open(self, req, proxy, type):
>         orig_type = req.get_type()
>         type, r_type = splittype(proxy)
>         host, XXX = splithost(r_type)
>         if '@' in host:
>             user_pass, host = host.split('@', 1)
>             if ':' in user_pass:
>                 user, password = user_pass.split(':', 1)
>                 user_pass = base64.encodestring('%s:%s' %
> (unquote(user),
>                                                           
> unquote(password)))
>                 req.add_header('Proxy-authorization', 'Basic ' +
> user_pass)
>         host = unquote(host)
>         req.set_proxy(host, type)
>    ...
> 
> I think it should be:
> 
> user_pass = base64.encodestring('%s:%s' % (unquote(user),
>                                            unquote(password))).split()

You mean strip, not split?

Try debugging a bit, find out what's really going on.  Just copy
urllib2.py to your current directory (so it'll override the installed
standard library's copy), and stick some print statements in there.


> have you any other clue?
[...]

You could try sniffing what Mozilla sends, too.

If you get this working, please look at the doc patch here

http://www.python.org/sf/798244


test it, and post a comment to say whether or not it's correct (and
which examples you tried -- preferably all of them ;).


John



From news_nospam at fuglum.net  Sun Sep 21 07:32:44 2003
From: news_nospam at fuglum.net (Erlend Fuglum)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:32:44 +0200
Subject: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?)
Message-ID: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm having some trouble sorting lists. I suspect this might have
something to do with locale settings and/or character
encoding/unicode.

Consider the following example, text containing norwegian special
characters ?, ? and ?.

>>> liste = ["ola", "erlend", "trygve", "?rlige anders", "Lars", "?ksemorderen", "?sne", "Akrobatiske Anna", "leidulf"]
>>> liste.sort()
>>> liste
['Akrobatiske Anna', 'Lars', 'erlend', 'leidulf', 'ola', 'trygve',
'\xc5sne', '\xc6rlige anders', '\xd8ksemorderen']

There are a couple of issues for me here:
* The sorting method apparently places strings starting with uppercase
characters before strings staring with lowercase. I would like to
treat them them equally when sorting. OK, this could probably be fixed
by hacking with .toupper() or something, but isn't it possible to
achieve this in a more elegant way?

* The norwegian special characters are sorted in a wrong way.
According to our alphabet the correct order is (...) x, y, z, ?, ? ?.
Python does it this way: (...) x, y, z, ?, ?, ? ?

I would really appreciate any help and suggestions - I have been
fiddling with this mess for quite some time now :-)



From benkial at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 28 21:59:52 2003
From: benkial at hotmail.com (Ben Kial)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:59:52 GMT
Subject: write a file "copy" program in Python for Unix and Windows...
Message-ID: <rmMdb.366088$2x.112007@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

I need to write a program to "copy" files and preserved the files'
atime, mtime, ctime, file permissions. I also need to have this
program working in Unix and Windows, where the "Archive"
attribute on the file also has to be preserved (any more
Windows idiosyncrasies?).

Any help will be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Ben





From BoteDesSchattens at web.de  Thu Sep 11 01:25:49 2003
From: BoteDesSchattens at web.de (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 05:25:49 GMT
Subject: FIFO problems
References: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bjp10t$li4db$2@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

Sorry, big mistake!!

Tobias Pfeiffer <BoteDesSchattens at web.de> wrote in
news:bjp0sg$li4db$1 at ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de: 

> these clients exists, no problem. But when the last process exists

EXITS, not exists...

Bye
Tobias



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Sep  4 09:24:18 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:24:18 -0400
Subject: Code complete electronic version ?
References: <b15d2792.0309030332.364532d1@posting.google.com> <vqOdnRuMAaBofMiiRVn-hg@giganews.com> <Gtmdnc6WsOhQaciiRTvUrg@speakeasy.net> <3f566672.342116427@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <u4qzt2cwe.fsf@inout.no>
Message-ID: <3F573D02.1A1022A1@engcorp.com>

Syver Enstad wrote:
> 
> I agree that Code Complete is a very good book, but I also think it is
> getting somewhat long in the tooth. For once it doesn't cover
> object-orientation. On the topic of coding I wonder if people are not
> better off buying Refactoring by Martin Fowler and Kent Beck. On the
> topic of project managment and development practices I would think
> that the XP white book would be more up to date.

Although the XP white book (Kent Beck's) is quite out of date itself,
at least relative to the state-of-the-XP.

I'm not sure what I'd suggest as more current, unless it's to jump
directly to the TDD book, but while that would teach some *very good*
coding practices, it sort of gets away from the area covered by
Code Complete enough to be a questionable response to the OP.

-Peter



From maney at pobox.com  Thu Sep 18 01:23:45 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:23:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: No "side effect" assignment!
References: <0fbc28ebd2ba4810db3efef3a29f990a@news.teranews.com> <1679b.687$Ie5.85963@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <bkbfh1$8il$3@wheel2.two14.net>

Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
> If you must use assignments in expressions, you might find the following
> recipes useful:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/202234

Did I forget about this one or is it in fact new?  It is, as the author
says, an ugly hack at the implementation level, but that seems to be
its only drawback.  It doesn't use any hidden state that could be
altered unexpectedly, and is only a minor eyesore; those who worry
about accidentally writing an assignment in place of an equality test
will consider that last to be a feature, of course.  Perhaps it could
be improved, slightly, by being renamed to "let"?  <evil grin>

> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66061

The hope of obliterating this recipie is IMO the strongest argument in
favor of adding operator= to Python.  I can think of no reason to
prefer this to 202234 aside from the chance that the language
implementation detail used in the latter's implementation could
conceivably go away someday.

Short form: 66061 Considered Harmful.  What, you thought it was just a
coincidence it had all those sixes in its number?

-- 
People make secure systems insecure because
insecure systems do what people want and
secure systems don't.  -- James Grimmelmann



From cbrew at acm.org  Thu Sep  4 15:24:38 2003
From: cbrew at acm.org (Chris Brew)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 12:24:38 -0700
Subject: Comparing objects - is there a maximum object?
Message-ID: <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755@posting.google.com>

I've just been writing some code to merge items from
a collection of streams, where each item has a key,
and each stream is known to be sorted in ascending
order of key. I read all the streams once, then
pick the minimum element of the results, replace
it with a new one read from the corresponding 
stream, and repeat. 

Thing is, what happens at end of file? I'd like to
do it by making the streams that are finished
return some object (call it endmarker) such
that min(x,endmarker) always returns x. That way,
when all the streams are returning endmarker, we
would be done. And I'd like my code to work the same
no matter what kind of thing the streams are
returning, so I want endmarker to be a generic
maximum object.

The Python documentation says:

The operators <, >, ==, >=, <=, and != compare the values of two
objects. The objects need not have the same type. If both are numbers,
they are converted to a common type. Otherwise, objects of different
types always compare unequal, and are ordered consistently but
arbitrarily

so  (unless this has been superseded) it doesn't seem that there is
such an object. Any suggestions? I notice that empirically max(x,None)
seems to be always x, but again I suppose I shouldn't count on that.

Chris



From rparnes at megalink.net  Wed Sep 10 20:55:51 2003
From: rparnes at megalink.net (Bob Parnes)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:55:51 -0000
Subject: Trouble Learning Zope
Message-ID: <slrnblvhla.575.rparnes@fruitbowl.localdomain>

Greetings,

I just installed zope, version 2.6.1-10 on a debian distribution, but I
cannot get to second base. When I try to add the tutorial to a folder, I
get an error message stating that an emergency user cannot own an
object. So I clicked onto the help page and found the tutorial there.
But I got the same error when I tried to follow it. Then I created a new
user account and restarted zope. But it would not accept a login as the
new user, only as the original, 'emergency' user. As things stand, I can
bring up zope on my browser but cannot do anything in it.

I have the online version of the Zope Book but could find no reference
to an emergency user.

What can I do to straighten things out. Thanks for any help.


-- 
Bob Parnes
rparnes at megalink.net



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 19:09:15 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:09:15 +0300
Subject: Using TCP/IP
References: <pan.2003.09.29.19.19.26.610000@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bmehnv49l8tm3qhtjjj3pe53q0ovd5t9kv@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:19:26 +0200, rumours say that jblazi
<jblazi at hotmail.com> might have written:

>How do I find out my own IP number (using Pythoi of course).

One way that works on most systems is:

import socket
socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())

Basically, this way you request the IP address for your host name; so
you depend on many variables: your system has a name that can be
resolved locally by a file or DNS lookup or similar...

>And how do I
>send/receive data to/from andother TCP/IP socket (of known ip number)?

>I mean: which module do I have to use for that?

The socket module.  Check the socket.socket class.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  3 13:04:47 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:04:47 -0700
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com> <bis8k4$sjv$00$1@news.t-online.com> <m349lvgot9ghsmii9b85uoq34qfhbho8jq@4ax.com> <js99lvguv5vdvmmjfpdmgmo5dnq5akttfb@news.stofanet.dk> <3f550e2f.254030105@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <tyfbru1swzd.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <bj56nu$f3gk1$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| ...
} I don't think that it has changed its meaning;
| most people just use the term incorrectly.
| ...

    Add to these the  OFTEN  confused terms
    accuracy and precision ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From newsgroupacc at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  2 11:31:40 2003
From: newsgroupacc at yahoo.com (brian)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:31:40 -0700
Subject: force gtk modal window to keep focus
Message-ID: <3a6e51c8.0309020731.1870c3c@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am beginner using Python 1.52, GTK 1.2.10, and Glade .0.6.2 to
develop a gui which will kick off various scripts.  After checking
some configurations I would like to pop up a window warning the user
of any problems and force them to respond to this window before
returning to the main window.  I use a modal dialog window and set the
main window to be insensitive.  This works fine but the way my window
manager(MWM) is setup(in the .mwmrc) is to raise a window when clicked
on.  So if the dialog is up and the user clicks on the main window the
dialog becomes hidden and nothing can happen.  I can change this raise
property on my machine but I don't know how a user's window manager
will be setup.  Is this a common problem?  Does anyone have a nice
solution?  All I can think of is to try and disable events/signals for
the mainwindow or add callbacks for when the focus is lost in the
dialog window.  I know my versions are out of date but it's what I
have to work with.

thank you.



From mail at heikokoehler.de  Thu Sep 11 22:19:30 2003
From: mail at heikokoehler.de (Heiko =?ISO-8859-15?Q?K=F6hler?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 04:19:30 +0200
Subject: CUTE 0.2 released
Message-ID: <3f612c9c$0$3270$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>

This version is beta software. CUTE is a QT and Scintilla based code editor,
scriptable with python. CUTE is completely configured with python scripts.
The python API allows to define new commands, which can be mapped to a
shortcut or added to a menu.
There is a handbook for CUTE, but this is still work in progress.  The
CUTE/python API is also documented.
CUTE`s page is http://cute.sourceforge.net

Regards,

Heiko K?hler



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep 16 15:41:30 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 21:41:30 +0200
Subject: py2exe & pyxml
References: <mailman.1063713803.30748.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3isns5xn9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Kathleen Kudzma" <kmkstyle at hotmail.com> writes:

> PROBLEM: When I try to create a classReader object I get an exception:
> "SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found".  This only happens when I
> run the .EXE; it does not happen if I run the .PY file.  When I'm
> running the .EXE this exception doesn't happen immediately.  It
> happens as soon as I try to create a classReader object.

You have to explicitly ask py2exe to include pyexpat in the
executable. RTFM.

Regards,
Martin



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 18:59:29 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 00:59:29 +0200
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello Alex,
this is one of the most exciting topics to discuss, however _slightly_
off-topic. Generally I agree with your reasoning. However I disagree with
some conclusions. We all know peace is the best possible state but there is
war......

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:NO66b.30883$R32.926812 at news2.tin.it...
> Michael Peuser wrote:
>    ...
> > A very good reply! But I have an answer as well: The only reason why
Linux
> > got a market share is Moore's Law. Nobody of clear commercial thinking
>
> Moore's Law is working in favour of higher level languages even harder
> than it's working in favour of free but highly efficient OS's.

There are two aspects:
(1) More power for same price - this works in favour of 'complex software'
(2) Same power for less money - this works in favor of 'cheap software'

>
> > will pay $200 for an operating system when the hardware has the same
>
> Most Linux use of commercial significance is not happening on such
> incredibly cheap systems, but rather on reasonably substantial servers
> (or sometimes even mainframes -- IBM _has_ invested a lot in Linux:-).
> The issue you mention MAY play a role in ensuring a nice for Lindows
> (and other desktop-oriented versions of Linux), but the server side
> is where Linux got its first foothold.

This is just a scaling. The main argument is the same. The software related
parts of the total cost of ownership have today become a major concern.

[ Michael stated here the price of tools is of minor relevance, as he
thougth of Python's "free" aspect]

[Alex gave a comprehensiv explanation why 'complex software' has become
possible.]
>
>
> > So it comes to the question: What does the common programmer know? This
is
>
> Not necessarily.  If common programmers only knew machine language,
> it would still be cheaper to use any available high-level language,
> say COBOL, even if you needed to supply training for it (it's not
> hard to teach COBOL to somebody who knows assembly, anyway -- the
> reverse is harder).
I am on your way; maybe they more probably would be trained for some "macro
language". This is no 'paradigm change'. Most C++ programmers (I know what I
say!) write C programs.

> Similarly, using Python can lower costs even
> if you factor in training costs (again, teaching Python to good
> Cobol programmers is quite easy -- other higher-level languages may
> not be _quite_ as cheap in these terms, admittedly, but still the
> economics aren't _hugely_ different).

This argument is valid for:
- OOP ("Reuse will reduce costs")
- RAD
- XP
- Design-for-testing
- Rigid configuration control
- state any new thing you like

The fact that  a better world is possible does not mean you get it.

Python is by no means a "perfect" alternative to  - lets say: DOT-NET and
#  - the advantages are difficult to see for persons in power or - I
mentiones the tool costs - are of minor relevance.

I should as well like to discuss your aspect of programmer's productivity.
This is an important  factor. However all investigations show that
programmer's productivity is an unmeasurable quantity. It certainly has to
do with what the programmer likes to do. If he or she would like to program
in Python everething would be fine. However most or today's programmers like
to do what is called "mainstream" (circular reasoning, I know) That is a
little bit document driven development, some UML charts, Visual Studio,
something inbetwen C and C++, C# and Java, and MS Office.

This can only change if there is competition. Competition means a Killer
Application that could be sold for half the price of the nearest competitor
because the developing costs had been such low!

Do it with Python then and show it to the world  ;-)

Kindly
Michael P

>
>
> Alex
>





From llothar at web.de  Thu Sep 18 14:53:45 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 11:53:45 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063856727.16858.python-list@python.org> <87r82e6yxg.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309181053.70facb64@posting.google.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87r82e6yxg.fsf at pobox.com>...

> Ken Godee <ken at perfect-image.com> writes:
> 
> John, is Ken right that buying the commercial BlackAdder license means
> you don't have to pay for the TT license too?  Certainly a good deal
> if so.
> 

Yes, please answer about this topic. This is one thing that would be
great but there is also no clue on the website about it.



From xnews at fredp.lautre.net  Fri Sep 19 07:42:59 2003
From: xnews at fredp.lautre.net (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 11:42:59 GMT
Subject: Anyone has "pyuploader.zip" from Parnassus ?
Message-ID: <Xns93FB8A9A52533PaCmAnRDLM@213.228.0.4>

Hi,

For my education I'd like to take a peek at "CGI Uploader", an old script 
that can be found on Vaults Of Parnassus ( http://py.vaults.ca/apyllo.py?
find=uploader ).

Unfortunately that is hosted on Parnassus itself :
http://www.vex.net/~x/python_stuff.html

I can access the page itself, but no file linked there will actually 
download. I have notified VoP, but I'm fully aware this has got to be low-
priority stuff ;-) 

In the meanwhile, if anyone happens to have a copy of this file lying 
around :

http://www.vex.net/~x/archive.py/pyupload.zip

...I'd appreciate being mailed a copy (the return address in this post 
should work).

TIA,
fp

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Mon Sep 29 08:15:41 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:15:41 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it> <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it>
 <9tabnvgbc4etnpp1hm3oh5dkffkru9pv0d@4ax.com>
 <ufzii5hou.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <2tsbnvob1k6tt6bkb29cfc69a4ji0q4giv@4ax.com>
 <uy8w94wtz.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <lhacnvksb6ppje2lfogrqhv30rbcahgil2@4ax.com>
 <ulls92b18.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <136envcoppkt546p8rhjhpeqkj380a3g40@4ax.com>
 <uu16w1o6q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <u5uenvobuacg0fuap6rvuvn04279kjtdma@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uisnbzt76.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

I wasn't even going to post this to the list, because it's so full of
static and other unpythonic stuff.  But then, Stephen hides his email
address, and there is one real Python-related issue at the bottom,
so...

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

> It was my intention to explain the origins of my misunderstanding,
> though certainly in a slightly less than serious way and with a big
> dollop of its-not-all-my-fault-you-know. 

I didn't need to have an assignment of blame in order to find closure
with this thread.  I was just trying to be helpful.

> I tend to screw this kind of thing up, and it seems I have done so
> again here.

Then I can't understand why you continue to charge about in the china
shop....

> I never said, anywhere, that you said that "std::pair supports..." if
> we are being that pedantic, but in the life of this thread neither of
> us really has been that pedantic. 

Seems like you've started.

> I quoted your exact words for the crucial point, which were...
>
> "you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual C++ iterator
> protocol"
>
> Pedantically speaking, this is imprecise language. 

No, there is a common subset of all iterator requirements and that's
what I was referring to.

> Most significantly, there is no such thing as "the usual C++
> iterator protocol". An iterator may implement any one of five
> different iterator protocols, and these protocols have surprisingly
> little in common.  All require an operator++ and all require a
> dereference-style operator* and that is it.

And that is the usual iterator protocol.  I happen to know exactly
what those protocols have in common.

> Actually, even the operator* isn't as common as it seems - input
> iterators only support read access, output ones only write access

Actually it's subtler than that.  You can have input/output iterators
which support random access which aren't random access iterators
because they don't support lvalue access.  So what, though?

>  - so the practical commonality is limited to the operator++.

You need operator* regardless.

> But then you weren't writing a standards document, and I wasn't
> reading it as a standards document.

That's why I didn't understand why you were giving me such a hard
time.  Because it's informal speech I'm supposed to do quadruple duty
to make sure you haven't misinterpreted me?  I really was going out
of my way to explain this stuff to you politely.

> To most C++ programmers most of the time, the words "the usual C++
> iterator protocol" don't have the pedantic meaning set by the C++
> standard - they are not just about having an operator++

And operator*.

> They have a somewhat more pragmatic meaning, which includes the
> usual means of obtaining iterators from containers. std::pair *is* a
> container in the general sense of containing other objects, even
> though in the C++ standards document context it is not formally
> considered a container.

Then so is 

     struct { int x, y; };

Also, so is char[4], and unsigned long is a container of at least 32
bits.

This is getting ridiculous.  It seems like you want to have a pedantic
debate about terms whose meaning is going to be defined by your
completely informal and subjective interpretation.

> Of course there is room for misinterpretation in virtually any piece
> of writing - criticism of your choice of words was certainly
> intentional, but meant to be lighthearted.
>
> But if you really believe that I "read what [I] want to see into what
> [you] posted" then I'm afraid you're wrong. I saw an implication which
> you never intended, but that was right at the start when I had no
> reason to "want to see" anything in particular.
>
> I do have a certain history in this kind of
> minor-misunderstanding-gets-overblown storyline, as Alex Martelli I
> think can confirm if he's still following the thread. Actually,
> he'll probably say you should consider yourself lucky that it only
> got this bad ;-)
>
> Anyway, I'm in no doubt that I'm primarily (probably entirely)
> responsible for the 'overblown' part especially with my previous post.
> I appologise for that.

Thanks, I think.  This is somewhat of a backhanded apology, but I'll
take it.  [If you had just stopped with the last message, I wouldn't
even feel it mattered].

>>This whole discussion started out talking about what the Python
>>protocol for manipulating iterators should be.  The fact that
>>iterators must themselves have an __iter__ method in Python may just
>>be making this more confusing than it needs to be.
>
> We may think of '__iter__' as part of the iterator protocol but,
> pedantically speaking, it is no more part of the Python iterator
> protocol than 'begin' is part of the C++ iterator protocol.
>
> Iterators don't have to have an '__iter__' method in Python. Iterators
> only have to have a 'next' method. It is the iterable object that
> implements '__iter__'. And, as with getting C++ iterators from 'begin'
> etc, even that is a convention rather than a requirement.

Sorry,

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typeiter.html#l2h-149

Read it twice, carefully.

> Sometimes iterators do have an '__iter__' method, but that normally
> just returns self

Always.

> - it's a quick-fix convenience for when iterators
> end up in a context where an iterable object is expected.
>
> I guess our mindsets aren't so different that we can't make similar
> mistakes ;-)

I'm afraid not.  I never, ever make mistakes in the first place ;->

infallib-ly y'rs
-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From nomail at hursley.ibm.com  Tue Sep 23 07:20:35 2003
From: nomail at hursley.ibm.com (Derek Fountain)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:20:35 +0800
Subject: Factory function to generate a named class
Message-ID: <3f702b3a$0$23594$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

I have a situation where I have, in a string, the name of a class I want an
instance of. I've written a factory function to generate the class for me:

def controllerFactory( controllerRequired, model ):
    if controllerRequired == "ViewController":
        return ViewController( model )
    elif controllerRequired == "FontController":
        return FontController( model )
    elif controllerRequired == "ColourController":
        return ColourController( model )
    else:
        raise TypeError

Is there a way to generate an instance of a class given the class name at
runtime? If so, what, in newbie terms, is it?



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 23 21:54:20 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:54:20 -0400
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <vn1uanhqkrq2e2@news.supernews.com>

Overall impression: I like it.
More comments interspersed.

John Roth

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HA5cb.185$kD3.168 at nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> Here is a discussion draft of a potential PEP.
> The ideas grew out of the discussion on pep-284.
> Comments are invited.  Dart throwing is optional.
>
>
> Raymond Hettinger
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> PEP: 323
> Title: Add Reverse Iteration Methods
> Version: $Revision: 1.1 $
> Last-Modified: $Date: 2003/03/11 04:49:44 $
> Author: Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com>
> Status: Draft
> Type: Standards Track
> Content-Type: text/x-rst
> Created: 23-Sep-2003
> Python-Version: 2.4
> Post-History: 23-Sep-2003
>
>
> Abstract
> ========
>
> This proposal is to extend the API of several sequence types
> to include methods for iterating over the sequence in reverse.
>
>
> Motivation
> ==========
>
> For indexable objects, current methods for reverse iteration are
> error prone, unnatural, and not especially readable::
>
>     for i in xrange(n-1, -1, -1):
>         print seqn[i]
>
> One other current approach involves reversing a list before iterating
> over it.  That technique wastes computer cycles, memory, and lines of
> code.

It also has the "returns None instead of an object" wart.

> Also, it only works with lists (strings, for example, do not define
> a reverse method)::
>
>     rseqn = list(seqn)
>     rseqn.reverse()
>     for elem in rseqn:
>         print elem
>
> Reverse iteration is much less common than forward iteration, but it
> does arise regularly in practice.

Absolutely.

>
> Proposal
> ========
>
> Add a method called iter_backwards() to sequence objects that can benefit
> from it.  The above examples then simplify to::
>
>     for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
>         print seqn[i]
>
>     for elem in seqn.iter_backwards():
>         print elem
>
> The new protocol would be applied to lists, strings, xranges objects,
> and possibly other sequence objects as well (depending on use cases
> and implementation issues).  It would not apply to unordered collections
> like dicts and sets.

I presume that the result of iter_backwards() is an iterator
object with the desired behavior. In other words, it's not
the original object that has methods to handle the iteration
protocol.

>
> No language syntax changes are needed.
>
>
> Open Issues
> ===========
>
> * Should tuples be included?  In the past they have been denied some list
>   like behaviors such as count() and index().

I'd say yes, but I don't know the reason why tuples are missing methods.

>
> * Should file objects be included?  Implementing reverse iteration may not
>   be easy though it would be useful on occasion.

Are we talking text files or binary files here? Offhand, I'm not even
sure there is a binary file iterator, although if there is reverse iteration
shouldn't be difficult. Reverse iteration for text files simply means
implementing
the reverse scan in C, since the standard library doesn't support it. For
small enough files, it may be easier to simply internally use getlines() and
then use iter_reverse() on the list.

>
> * Should enumerate() be included?  It would only provide reverse iteration
>   whenever the underlying sequence supported it.

I don't see why not.

In general, I support the notion that a concept should be implemented
pervasively, unless there's a clear reason not to do it in a special case.
Special cases are just that - if they really are special, you trip over them
once and then remember them. What gets messy is something that's
partially implemented, where there is no clear rule to determine when
it is and when it isn't.

John Roth
>
>
> Copyright
> =========
>
> This document has been placed in the public domain.
>
>
>





From ssthapa at classes.cs.uchicago.edu  Thu Sep  4 15:46:16 2003
From: ssthapa at classes.cs.uchicago.edu (Suchandra Thapa)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:46:16 GMT
Subject: Python prog needs root -how to do this securely
References: <mailman.1061773582.11066.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cEM5b.43$%4.9565@news.uchicago.edu>

John D. <lists at webcrunchers.com> wrote:
> I have a Python program which runs as user 'www' (it's a CGI).
> It needs root privilege to write a particular file.
> What's the best way of doing this while remaining secure?
> 
> Right now I do os.system("sudo myutil parms") and pass the parms to it.
> I remove : < > & | from the parm string before passing it.
> Is there a way to do this without making a system call?

With your approach you have to be aware that users on the system will probably
be able to view the parameters your are passing to myutil.  Whether this is a 
problem depends on your particular setup.

One alternative would be to make nobody, apache, etc. (which ever your apache
server runs under)  the group owners of the file and give the apache group
write permissions to the file.  This may not be feasible for your setup.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suchandra Thapa                       
s-thapa-11 at NOSPAMalumni.uchicago.edu  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep  8 07:53:56 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 12:53:56 +0100
Subject: exec code with timeout?
References: <Xns93EFD117DA30FOKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062996311.6727.python-list@python.org> <Xns93EFE34728E26OKB@130.133.1.4> <mailman.1062999372.21845.python-list@python.org> <qaY6b.29120$hE5.1041098@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <87n0dfcx7v.fsf@pobox.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> Graham Fawcett wrote:
[...]
> > Hmm... well, again I'd suggest the PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc function. It
> > shouldn't be that hard to wrap... I'd try it myself, but haven't made it
> > to 2.3 yet.  :(
> 
> Nope -- the attacking script can easily use try/except to defeat attempts
> to kill it via PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc .  The latter isn't meant for any
> "adversarial" situation, but just for potentially _buggy_ threads.
[...]

Which is what the OP asked for, actually -- the users are trusted.

Agreed that a separate process still seems better, though.


John



From paul at boddie.net  Fri Sep 26 07:38:55 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 04:38:55 -0700
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com> <7h3smmm2m0w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <0ck3nvoicm45kb0oon2etsucttatc3aob7@4ax.com> <7h3ad8t2k6q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <89d6nv85qdrvegiehk25rpkpirogvqspgi@4ax.com> <7dWcnajRG6oi4-6iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0309260338.139e34ba@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<7dWcnajRG6oi4-6iXTWJkA at comcast.com>...
> "Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou" <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message
> news:89d6nv85qdrvegiehk25rpkpirogvqspgi at 4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:20:27 GMT, rumours say that Michael Hudson
> > <mwh at python.net> might have written:
> >
> > >PS: hp-ux/itanium appears to be utterly horked...
> >
> > PS: What is horked???
> 
> In Diablo II, it means that a Barbarian has stood over the corpse and
> yelled a particular magical warcry to draw out any remaining potions
> or possessions.
> 
> MH might have meant something else ;-)

Yes, MH presumably meant "Tux the Penguin" instead of "a Barbarian",
"long-term viability" instead of "potions", and "market share" instead
of "possessions". ;-)

Paul



From nospamius at lundhansen.dk  Tue Sep  2 10:34:37 2003
From: nospamius at lundhansen.dk (Bertel Lund Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:34:37 +0200
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com> <bis8k4$sjv$00$1@news.t-online.com> <m349lvgot9ghsmii9b85uoq34qfhbho8jq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <js99lvguv5vdvmmjfpdmgmo5dnq5akttfb@news.stofanet.dk>

Daniel Klein skrev:

>It's not a problem really. I just thought there would be a better,
>more elegant way to achieve polymorphism without using getters.

A note on words:

If a class operates with for instance a bullet, then derived
classes thereof may operate with a metal bullet, a rubber bullet,
a grenade or a missile. They all operate as bullets, and the fact
that the same object can be instantiated as many different
things, is called polymorphism. "Poly morph" = "many shaped".

"Encapsulation" is the word that describes the effort(s) to make
it impossible for the user of a module to access the attributes
(and hidden methods) directly and only allow him to do it through
public methods with build-in check so that no disasters occur.

-- 
Bertel, Denmark



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Sep 16 12:49:39 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:49:39 GMT
Subject: Duck Typing
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063720351.23661.python-list@python.org> <3gG9b.12137$3Y2.2543@news2.central.cox.net> <3F6732DB.F31A954E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <DaH9b.12147$3Y2.9399@news2.central.cox.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F6732DB.F31A954E at engcorp.com...
> Steve Holden wrote:
> >
> > exquacktly [ducks and runs]
>               ^^^^^
>
> Steve, did you even _know_ you did this?  You're sick!
>
> -Peter  :-)

Aah, I see, you think I'm stupid.

Of course I knew - without the bracketed afterthought it would hardly have
been worth posting.

I'll send you a bill ;-)

regards
-- 
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From patrick at fraley.de  Wed Sep  3 05:57:19 2003
From: patrick at fraley.de (Patrick W. Fraley)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:57:19 +0200
Subject: gadfly and SQL-LIKE
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.03.09.57.18.748338@fraley.de>

Hi Everybuddy,

I am having a little problem I can not find a solution for.

I am trying to use the SQL-LIKE statement in gadfly.  After googling
around I found out that it is not supported, and that on is supposed to
use a regular expression.  All great, but there is nowhere a reference
to be found on how to do this.  No examples, no nothing, just the 
comment to use regular expressions.

Could someone here point me into the right direction?

TIA
Patrick W. Fraley



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Sep 17 12:19:03 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:19:03 -0700
Subject: tuples vs lists
References: <bk7eo9$g4g$1@bagan.srce.hr> <9egemvkhp2s55horjr9dfveml22158d62g@4ax.com> <bk7lfj$v5p$1@bagan.srce.hr> <3F67606B.C9A89EF3@engcorp.com> <bk7nlb$5jp$1@bagan.srce.hr> <3F676AAB.92479235@engcorp.com> <bk9h4m$q3p$1@bagan.srce.hr> <3F68625F.984871CE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <donn-A3C752.09190317092003@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <3F68625F.984871CE at engcorp.com>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Ivan Voras wrote:
> > 
> > Peter Hansen wrote:
> > > Ivan Voras wrote:
> > 
> > >> I know that. I was just wandering if they also behave faster. Lists
> > >> are only interesting to me in case I need mutability.
> > >
> > > I'd suggest you have that backwards.  Lists should _always_ be
> > > interesting
> > > to you.  Tuples should be interesting only in the case where you need
> > > *immutability*.
> > 
> > I disagree. :) I would always use tuples except when I explicitely need
> > mutability. That doesn't meen that I would intentionaly (badly) restructure
> > code just to use tuples, only that in many cases my structures don't need 
> > to
> > be modified.
> 
> That's your personal choice, I suppose, and I won't try any more to dissuade
> you any more except to point out that most Python programmers, I believe, do 
> not see tuples as their first choice, but use them only in certain special 
> cases.

These two positions may be more similar than different.  The
notion of a sequence that never needs to be modified is certainly
a special case, and if we were looking at the actual applications
for these sequences we might all agree that they're more or less
appropriately cast as tuples.  One argues about principles like
this at some risk of silliness.

The thing that eventually pushed me towards lists and away from
tuples, for sequences of like items, is the notation.  It may
seem like a awfully prosaic consideration, but lists are usually
easier to mentally parse out of an expression, because the tuple's
parentheses are shared by other syntactical groupings.  And then
there's the awkward notation for a single-element tuple.  Lists
are easier to write and easier to read.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Sep  2 11:41:32 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:41:32 -0400
Subject: **kwds behavior?
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2S25b.841$I_2.211334@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Paradox" <JoeyTaj at netzero.com> wrote in message
news:924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb at posting.google.com...
> Why does the following attempts to pass in keywords arguments not
> work.

Passing in the keyword arguments to the functions testKeywords1, 2 ,3
does work, but you need to access 'x' using kwds['x']. Passing kwds to
locals().update doesn't work because locals is not writable. It might be
better if attempting to write to an non-writable dict raised an exception,
but that is not the current behaviour. So, your call to update has no effect
on the local namespace and, thus, 'x' is not yet defined locally.

> Does anyone know how to accomplish something like this.
[snip]

Well, you can't modify locals directly,  but you can do this -

class record:
    "a simple class to use like a c struct or pascal record"
    def __init__(self, **kwds):
        self.__dict__.update(kwds)

def testKeywords1 (**kwds):
    my = record(**kwds)
    print my.x

    def testNested():
        print my.x
    testNested()

# works
testKeywords1(x=5)

# output
5
5

HTH
Sean





From dave at 3dex.com  Thu Sep 11 15:02:32 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:02:32 GMT
Subject: Problems with setting up mod_python and Apache
References: <3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <4zK7b.11532$NW3.6643@news1.central.cox.net> <jXO7b.14165$NW3.10353@news1.central.cox.net> <3f605bee$0$199$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cF38b.760$8g2.686@news1.central.cox.net>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message
news:3f605bee$0$199$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> I have fixed my problem with mod_python. I have one small problem left to
> sort out. If I enter the URL http://localhost Apache just displays the
> contents of the htdocs directory, but if I enter the URL
> http://localhost/test.py everything works as it should. I guess this is
> somewhat off topic since it appears to be an Apache configuration problem
so
> I hope you don't mind me asking you for your opinion on c.l.p.

Well, I get around this problem by adding "index.py" to the DirectoryIndex
directive. I use a modified version of the publisher module that comes with
mod_python that handles this and related special cases. Here's the change
that I make, if you're interested:

<     if not _req.subprocess_env.has_key("PATH_INFO"):
<         raise apache.SERVER_RETURN, apache.HTTP_NOT_FOUND
<
<     func_path = _req.subprocess_env["PATH_INFO"][1:] # skip fist /
<     func_path = string.replace(func_path, "/", ".")
---
>     if _req.subprocess_env.has_key("PATH_INFO"):
>         func_path = _req.subprocess_env["PATH_INFO"][1:] # skip first /
>         func_path = string.replace(func_path, "/", ".")
>
>         # If no function is specified, assume "default".
>         if not len(func_path): func_path = "default"
>     else:
>         # If no module is specified either, assume "index".
>         func_path   = "default"
>         module_name = "index"

This has the result that "index" is always the default module, and "default"
is the function within that module that gets called if no function is
explicitly specified on the URL. This works like a charm.

> BTW What I am trying to do is to move away from PHP. Since I use Python as
> my primary scripting language for just about everything where you would
use
> a scripting language, it seems to me to be a reasonable idea to use Python
> to provide dyanamic content for the web sites I look after.

I did the same thing myself last year, after writing PHP for a couple of
years. mod_python definitely makes Python a worthy substitute for writing
Apache modules. The main drawbacks from my experience are the lack of
built-in session handling and more sophisticated parameter passing (ie.
PHP's ability to serialize hashes from a form submission). But I'm a little
dated now, I'm still using mod_python 2 / apache 1.3 ...

Have fun,
Dave






From roy at panix.com  Sun Sep 28 17:06:11 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:06:11 -0400
Subject: Checking for invalid keyword arguments?
Message-ID: <roy-B6EED5.17061128092003@reader2.panix.com>

I've got a function that takes a couple of optional keyword arguments.  
I want to check to make sure I didn't get passed an argument I didn't 
expect.  Right now I'm doing:

        conversion = None
        drop = False
        for key, value in kwArgs.items():
            if key == 'conversion':
                conversion = value
            elif key == 'drop':
                drop = value
            else:
                raise TypeError ('Unexpected keyword argument %s' % key)

which seems kind of verbose.  Is there a neater way to do this check?



From sjoshi at ingr.com  Thu Sep  4 12:35:18 2003
From: sjoshi at ingr.com (Sunit Joshi)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 09:35:18 -0700
Subject: How do I match this with re
Message-ID: <8f8ffe67.0309040835.368f9565@posting.google.com>

Hello All
I have a problem here where I need to find the drive letters in a text
file and replace them with another letter. Now the lines can be as
long as this

6 'C:\pds\bddin64\report\mto\' 'SJOSHI'
'D:\pds\bddin64\report\format\' 'SJOSHI'

with multiple entries for path; i.e. there may be 2, as above or 1 or
more then 2. If I use the expression .*'([A-Z]:).*?', it only matches
the 2nd D: How do I get all the path groups ..??


thanks
Sunit



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 15 14:02:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:02:30 -0400
Subject: Advice from Jeff (Was Re: Is there "let binding" in Python?)
References: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list@python.org> <o0d9b.21665$dk4.674856@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3F65FEB6.967C2116@engcorp.com>

Don Bruder wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.1063592122.17998.python-list at python.org>,
>  Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> 
> <major snippage>
> 
> > Not an answer, but advice: when writing programs in Python, write Python
> > programs.
> 
> Gawd, but that's profound! And on several levels... No... I'm serious.
> But I'm also smiling.

Only about as profound as the pithy sayings of "the Sphinx" in the 
droll movie "Mystery Men"...

-Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Sep 27 07:49:45 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 13:49:45 +0200
Subject: unicode 3 digit decimal conversion
References: <Dxbdb.26075$os2.360296@news2.e.nsc.no> <bl3r3r$dno$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3ad8qa1t2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> I see your problem is already solved

I'm quite uncertain as to what the solution is, though - or perhaps
what the problem is. The OP said that the telnet server expects
backslash characters in the data stream (atleast I interpreted his
message that way), but then he was happy with an approach that did not
send backslash characters.

Perhaps the telnet server really expects latin-1, in which case
encoding the Unicode string in that encoding, or in iso-8859-15,
would work fine most of the time.

Regards,
Martin



From brent.turner at clarisay.com  Mon Sep 29 16:35:51 2003
From: brent.turner at clarisay.com (Brent Turner)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 13:35:51 -0700
Subject: COM Servers in python 2.3 [win32all build 157]?
Message-ID: <2f6cf792.0309291235.27f15233@posting.google.com>

Under python 2.2 [win32all build 156]  I was able to create a COM
object in an exe much of the same way that I could from py source...
meaning that I was able to register the com server and create an
instance using the current process (exe/source) as the com server. 
Now, in python 2.3 [win32all build 157] when I try to create the COM
instance from the exe, it starts up a new process and fails (b/c my
exe does not support the command line parameters)

The Source below is what is run from inside the exe.  This may not be
the way I was supposed to do it, but at the time I found that this
worked.  Does anybody know what I am doing wrong?? or why it worked in
the first place (if it is wrong).

Source:
######################################################################
# place all com classes here to be registered at import
comservers = [ PythonCollection ]


import win32com.server.register 
import pythoncom
import sys
if hasattr(sys, 'importers'):
# we are running as py2exe-packed executable
	sys.frozen = 1
	pythoncom.frozen = 1

# Register all the comservers
for com in comservers:
	print 'Registering COM Server %s ...' % com 
	win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(com)
######################################################################


Thanks,
Brent



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Sep  5 15:56:26 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:56:26 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
 <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com>
 <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
 <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com>
 <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
 <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <vlhidvcpq9a980 at news.supernews.com>,
"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:
>"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
>news:3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
>> In article <vlhba85atlte07 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
>> >
>> > "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
>> > news:3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
>>  2) It would mean that there's some sort of difference between
>>     a function and a method.
>
>I don't understand your point. There is currently a difference
>between a function and a method that could be eliminated by
>making self a reserved word and removing it from the method
>header. Or have you never tried to invoke a method from the
>wrong context and gotten the "unbound method" error?

   There's no difference in the sense that a method is
simply a function whose first parameter refers to the class
instance to be worked on.  No magic words, no "undeclared"
parameters.  It means that in my demo code in limitcases.py
(somewhere in the newsgroup lately) I can say

    limitcases.Lowest.__str__ = lambda x: "-Infinity"

to give the Lowest class a new method sans ennuis.

        Regards.        Mel.



From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 16 16:02:53 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python at sarcastic-horse.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:02:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: how to build a list of mx.DateTime objects from a start and end 
     date?
Message-ID: <59268.199.169.240.132.1063742573.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

Hi-


I want to make a list of mx.DateTime objects that cover all the monthly
intervals between two points.  For example:

>>> import mx.DateTime
>>> nov1999 = mx.DateTime.Date(1999, 11)
>>> mar2003 = mx.DateTime.Date(2003, 3)
>>> alldates = mk_list(startdate=nov1999, enddate=mar2003)
>>> alldates
[ ... a bunch of mx.DateTime objects including and between the startdate
and enddate ...]

How would I do something like this?


Thanks for the help.




From mack at incise.org  Tue Sep  9 16:48:11 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:48:11 -0500
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
In-Reply-To: <1063139737.1862.5.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>
References: <20030909193530.GA2218@darkstar.localdomain.fake> <20030909194508.GV16821@incise.org> <1063139737.1862.5.camel@adsl-209.204.179.133.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20030909204811.GW16821@incise.org>

On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 01:35:37PM -0700, Chad Netzer wrote:
> "class" is a keyword, and so the above won't work, but the idea is
> sound. (Just use a different identifier than 'class')

Doh, totally slipped my mind.

> The first form, using getattr, is perfectly idiomatic, and that is what
> I use.

Agreed, getattr isn't bad, but using vars()[foo] or globals()[foo]
always feels gross to me.

> Also, regarding the earlier import question, there is the builtin
> __import__ function:
> 
> help(__import__)

Cool.  I've seen it before but never gave any thought to it.

-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
Every man has his price.  Mine is $3.95.




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 16:32:34 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:32:34 -0400
Subject: Python port to Swiss Ephemeris work with 2.3?
References: <734b753f.0309041612.2066021@posting.google.com> <vlfqpk4hup6621@news.supernews.com> <734b753f.0309042237.5ded1230@posting.google.com> <vlgutinh4i8l12@news.supernews.com> <734b753f.0309051002.4e625e8e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vlhsnim0nktn28@news.supernews.com>

"Dave" <bluheaven2 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:734b753f.0309051002.4e625e8e at posting.google.com...
> > I found it on the Vaults under the Misc heading. Looks good.
> > Looks a lot better than my interface.
> > You need to recompile using the same compiler that Python
> > was compiled with (I believe that's VC 6 for the Windows version.)
> > Extension modules ***always*** need to be recompiled for major
> > Python releases. John Roth
>
> Thanks John, I wouldn't know how to do that since I haven't worked
> with C much. -Dave

Sigh. I don't either. My copy of VC6 is the cheap one that only
includes the C++ compiler. Unfortunately, the C module was
generated by SWIG, which makes converting it to C++ so
I can compile it right out of the question.

John Roth





From timr at probo.com  Fri Sep 26 00:21:08 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:21:08 -0700
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <slrnbn74ch.s2.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <slrnap4tqk.18h.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <jaf7nvs36d4h9hvt5lqmh5b1neqemogpc4@4ax.com>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>
>Ben Finney wrote:
>
>>> But now, among a small group of cognoscenti, it is a truism that this is a
>>> myth, and that Windows will allow you to use either the forward or the
>>> backward slash as a pathname separator.
>> 
>> I highly doubt it, since the forward slash (or just "slash") is the
>> conventional Windows command-line option indicator,
>
>That was configurable back in the DOS days.  There was a "well-known" byte in
>system RAM that contained the "switch" character.  IIRC, DOS even shipped
>with a utility to change that value.

Yes, indeed.  There was a SWITCHAR option in config.sys, and a
corresponding DOS service, until DOS 3.0, when it was removed because they
couldn't make it work with network software.

So, the situation can be summed up rather simply:

  * All DOS services since DOS 2.0 and all Windows APIs accept either
forward slash or backslash.  Always have.

  * None of the standard command shells (CMD or COMMAND) will accept
forward slashes.  Even the "cd ./tmp" example given in a previous post
fails.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From jakle1 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 28 23:28:27 2003
From: jakle1 at hotmail.com (Jakle)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 03:28:27 GMT
Subject: Recursion
References: <xjLdb.565$Vb3.450032@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <vFNdb.646$Vb3.493747@news1.news.adelphia.net>

That's great. You guys have no idea how much that helped. And I love that
debugging tip. For some reason I thought that the 2 statements after the
recursion call, "result = n * recurse" and "return result" weren't executed
till n == 0. If you can't tell, I'm new to this. But I'm dedicated. I want
to thank you guys soooo much for taking the time to help out. I'm sitting
here jumping for joy because it's alittle more clear :-) I can't wait till
it's me helping out in the future. I'm still alittle confused about why the
flow of execution goes down then up again, but I now have the tools to look
at it in a better light. Time to get my nose in the book again, then write
another function using the same logic in order to make sure I understand.
Thanks again :-)





From link0937 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 23:11:42 2003
From: link0937 at hotmail.com (Link)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:11:42 +0800
Subject: How can I rewrite the JPython to Python?
Message-ID: <bk8jgc$mdr$1@news.seed.net.tw>

Hello!I am new to Python and I would like to rewrite the following code to
python use to call by C program:// JPython code
=======================================
import org.python.util.PythonInterpreter;
import org.python.core.*;

public class SimpleEmbedded {
    public static void main(String []args)
	throws PyException
    {
	PythonInterpreter interp =
	    new PythonInterpreter();

	System.out.println("Hello, brave new world");
	interp.exec("import sys");
	interp.exec("print sys");

	interp.set("a", new PyInteger(42));
	interp.exec("print a");
	interp.exec("x = 2+2");
	PyObject x = interp.get("x");

	System.out.println("x: "+x);
	System.out.println("Goodbye, cruel world");
    }
}


// C Language code ==============================
void main() {
    Py_Initialize();
    printf("Hello, brave new world");

    PyRun_SimpleString("import sys");    PyRun_SimpleString("print sys");
    // interp.set("a", new PyInteger(42));
    // I can't rewrite,Please Help!

    PyRun_SimpleString("print a");    PyRun_SimpleString("x = 2+2");
    // PyObject x = interp.get("x");
    // I can't rewrite,Please Help!
    // System.out.println("x: "+x);

    // I can't rewrite,Please Help!
    Py_Finalize();
    printf("Goodbye, cruel world");
}






From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Fri Sep 26 10:11:38 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:11:38 +0400
Subject: Equivalent of std::set
In-Reply-To: <tKXcb.75225$PD3.4793461@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
References: <tKXcb.75225$PD3.4793461@nnrp1.uunet.ca>
Message-ID: <bl1hep$haq$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Nicolas Fleury wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I haven't work so much in python and I was wondering what python 
> programmers use for string collections, like an equivalent of C++ 
> std::set.  Do you use a dictionary with dummy values?  Tuple/list?  Is 
> there any other structure in some module with uniqueness ensured and 
> lookup optimised?  I'm only interested in storing strings in that 
> structure.
> 
> Thx for help
> 
> Nicolas
> 

Python 2.3 introduced Set type, in the former versions common idiom was 
to use dictionaries with dummies IMHO.

anton.




From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Tue Sep 16 19:43:47 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:43:47 -0400
Subject: OT: Re: from clipper move to python
In-Reply-To: <c26362ae.0309161246.30596c72@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1063605800.2328.python-list@python.org> <c26362ae.0309161246.30596c72@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F67A033.6090306@teksavvy.com>

Ken Roberts wrote:

>ads <ads at chead.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063605800.2328.python-list at python.org>...
>  
>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>
>>I'm starting learning python about 2 weeks, and still have
>>difficulties to create GUI based application because I never learn
>>about classes and other OOP things. Does anyone knows how to
>>create text console application like clipper using python.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>    
>>
>
>For those who ask - clipper is a programming language that is a
>compiled version of dBase relational database scripting language.
>  
>

I'm not old enough to have stories about how I hacked on a shiny new 
PDP-10 or any such thing. But seeing Clipper on c.l.py brings back 
memories; my first real programming job was writing a database app in 
Clipper. How blazingly fast it was, compared with the earlier dBase III 
version of the app! Clipper was the One True Way to write data-driven 
apps. Or so I thought: I was a green kid back then, and hadn't even 
heard of SQL...

Those console-based data-entry applications were infinitely more 
efficient for a good typist than anything that involves (or even allows) 
a mouse.

rhapsodically yours,

-- Graham






From dave at 3dex.com  Wed Sep 10 20:01:19 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:01:19 GMT
Subject: Problems with setting up mod_python and Apache
References: <3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <4zK7b.11532$NW3.6643@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <jXO7b.14165$NW3.10353@news1.central.cox.net>

Quoting John Dean:
>
> Here are the lines in my httpd.conf
> LoadModule python_module      /usr/lib/apache/mod_python.so
>
> AddModule mod_python.c
>
> <Directory "srv/www/htdocs">
> .....
> .....
>
> Addhandler python-program .py
> PythonHandler test

Looks right to me. Have you verified that:
  a) you are editing the right httpd.conf  (hey, it happens...)
  b) you are affecting the directory you think you are  (do other apache
directives work properly?)

Once things are working, you may also want to read up on and consider adding
this:
PythonInterpPerDirectory on
(hint: otherwise, if you have a test.py in another directory, you will get
bizarre results)

Good luck,
Dave

PS - Please keep replies to the list for the benefit of others. =)





From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sat Sep 27 12:14:29 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:14:29 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com>
 <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
 <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <JH_cb.174346$R32.5548036@news2.tin.it>
 <u7k3ve63q.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <7v49nvc9rlj0mi0iojmp3gu359mpgiuk98@4ax.com>
 <ur8239i6z.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <0acdb.128801$hE5.4391247@news1.tin.it>
 <u4qyy8mfk.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <1Xhdb.130593$hE5.4445587@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ullsa5hui.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>    ...
>> Well, (understanding that you don't nececessarily agree with the
>> above) you can in fact iterate on std::pair<T,T> with the usual C++
>> iterator protocol, 
>
> You mean there's an std::pair::begin etc?!  

No, that's an entirely different question.  I can build an iterator
which iterates over pair<T,T>.

> OK, I guess I'm even rustier on standard C++ than I thought I was --
> I could have SWORN there wasn't.  (Std chapter & verse pls?  I plan
> to win bets based on this tidbit...!-).  So I guess the lack of
> those in gcc is a breach of the Standard on gcc's part...?

No, nothing like that.

>> and with a new mixed compile-time/runtime tuple iterator protocol
>> developed by Doug Gregor, iteration over heterogeneous tuples is
>> possible too.  It certainly is desirable to be able to do that;
>> it's a real need that has come up in practice.
>
> So, given an arbitrary struct, with fields (generally) of different
> types, you can iterate field by field?

Ah, no.  A tuple in C++ is a different thing, and much more like a
Python tuple: http://www.boost.org/libs/tuple

> That's basically what the "heterogeneous tuple" is supposed to be
> equivalent to, in the "party line" I was relating

Well, that's just nutty.  We can make a much better analogy to a
struct in Python with the usual class hacks.  But even then, we can
arrange to iterate the attributes.

>  (although the names to go with the fields are only present in a FEW
> such tuples, such as those returned by modules time and stat, 

Whaa??  Are they subclassing tuple?  Nope, time.struct_time is not
even a tuple.  It's just the struct hack with a tuple-like repr()

>>> time.localtime()
(2003, 9, 27, 12, 10, 43, 5, 270, 1)
>>> type(time.localtime())
<type 'time.struct_time'>
>>> time.struct_time.__bases__
(<type 'object'>,)

> as of now; more general tuples still haven't grown the ability to
> access fields by name, in Python).
>
> My partial dissent comes from feeling the need for "frozen/immutable
> lists" and the fact that tuples are often used as such (including goofy
> immutable representations of dicts, e.g. via tuple(thedict.iteritems()),
> and the like).  If tuples cannot be thought of as immutable lists, then
> (I think) we need "immutable/hashable/frozen" lists by other means.

I agree completely.

> (I need to say "I think" because, as I quoted, Ruby experts claim that
> the "anyobject.freeze" feature they do have isn't actually as useful
> as it SEEMS it should be -- though I'm not sure I understand why, yet).

Immutability is extremely useful whenever you have inplace operations
like +=, because it guarantees value stability for other references
to the same object.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr  Fri Sep 26 11:19:24 2003
From: tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr (Anthony McDonald)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:19:24 +0200
Subject: server side socket program hangs
References: <57efaf35.0309260215.5ddd5734@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f74571f$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

<anuradha.k.r at sify.com> wrote in message
news:57efaf35.0309260215.5ddd5734 at posting.google.com...
> hi,
>    i am writing a socket program in python,both client side and server
> side.I've written the client side which is working perfectly
> fine(checked it against server program written in C).but as for my
> server program written in python it simply hangs.it does not show any
> error also.I've tried sample programs available .I don understand what
> the reason is as i am quite new to it.
> here is teh server side program:
>
> ///////////////////////
> from socket import *
> import socket
> import sys
>
> HOST = ''       #any address
> PORT = htons(9999)       #same port address as client
>
<snip code>
>
> can someone tell me what the problem is?

Your applying a function designed to simplyfy transfering IP addresses to a
literal value you want to use for your port.  The following should show the
effect thats now happening.

PythonWin 2.3.1 (#47, Sep 23 2003, 23:47:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> import socket
>>> socket.htons(9999)
3879
>>>

-- 
Anthony McDonald

This email address is protected by SpamBayes
www.spambayes.org





From hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de  Wed Sep 17 09:44:49 2003
From: hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 06:44:49 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
References: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com> <bk80n3$rsb$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <95b4b9ac.0309170544.77e0d12a@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the suggestion but zip is not nice for large lists
and as for array/numpy, although I chose a numeric example in
the posting, I don't see why only numeric arrays should enjoy
the benefit of such a notation.

l[;0] is illegal right now but does anyone of any other bit
of syntax it might conflict with if proposed as an extension?

Hilde



From tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr  Thu Sep 11 17:24:13 2003
From: tonym1972/at/club-internet/in/fr (Anthony McDonald)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:24:13 +0200
Subject: ftplib question: how to upload files?
References: <mailman.1063305377.21943.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f60e646$0$20947$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

<python at sarcastic-horse.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1063305377.21943.python-list at python.org...
> Hi:
>
> I want to write a procedure to automatically upload some files for me, but
> I'm getting stuck.  Before I write my own gruesome put() function, I
> wanted to check if there is an easier way.
>
> Here's what I can do so far:
> >>>import ftplib
> >>>conn = ftplib.FTP('ftp.example.com')
> >>>conn.login(user='userid', passwd='passwd')
> >>>conn.cwd('/var/www/html/incoming')
>
> What do I do to send files?
>
> I have three files I want to upload, but I'm not sure what to do.  I hoped
> to find a ftplib.put() method, but it looks like ftplib is a low-level
> interface.
>
> All help is welcome.
>
>
The methods your searching for are storlines (for ascii) or storbinary (for
non ascii).

You can simplyfy the process slightly with your own wrapper to those 2
methods to guess the file mode and call the correct method with the STOR
command created for you. An example is below.

def upload(conn, fname):
    (head, tail) = os.path.split(fname)
    command = "STOR " + tail
    fd = open(fname, 'rb')
    temp = fd.read(2048)
    fd.seek(0, 0)
    if temp.find('\0') != -1:
        conn.storbinary(command, fd)
    else:
        conn.storlines(command, fd)
    fd.close()

Anthony McDonald





From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 22 17:15:55 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:15:55 GMT
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com> <slrnbmrgau.438.chasm@galileo.rift>
Message-ID: <fEJbb.61$eB.37@twister.southeast.rr.com>

No difference on my computer (see my note at the end):

times:
recursion 6.66
reduction 3.50
iteration 3.16  (for i in range(2,n+1))
xteration 3.16  (for i in xrange(2,n+1))

But when I added another function (it'e a bit slower its range/xrange partners)

def factorial_niter(n):
  s = 1
  i = 2
  while i<=n:
    s *= i
    i += 1
  return s

ALL the times increased, probably because the grown dictionary.

bast times:
recursion 6.77
reduction 3.51
iteration 3.20
xteration 3.17
nteration 3.36

M-a-S


"Julian Tibble" <chasm at rift.sytes.net> wrote in message news:slrnbmrgau.438.chasm at galileo.rift...
> <...>
> (code I used:)
> def recursion(n):
>         s = 1
>         for i in range(2, n+1):
>                 s *= i
>         return s
>
> def xrecursion(n):
>         s = 1
>         for i in xrange(2, n+1):
>                 s *= 1
>         return s


s *= 1 <--------------------------------- maybe this is your difference!





From max at alcyone.com  Fri Sep 19 15:44:19 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:44:19 -0700
Subject: How do I learn operator overriding?
References: <53332.199.169.240.132.1063995923.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net> <mailman.1063996896.4262.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F6B5C93.15E9C99B@alcyone.com>

python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote:

> But if I subtract an integer from my qDate object, I want to get a new
> qDate object returned, like this:
> 
> >>> 2001q4 - 2
> (new qDate object with year=2001 and quarter=2)
> 
> Any ideas how to make this possible?

In that case an extra class might be appropriate (untested):

	class SubordinateDate(Date):
	    def __init__(self, date, quarter):
	        self.year = date.year
	        self.quarter = quarter

and change the original Date.__sub__ method to:

	...
	    def __sub__(self, other):
	        if type(other) is types.IntType:
	            other = SubordinateDate(date, other)
	        return self.quarters() - other.quarters()
	...

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You and I / We've seen it all / Chasing our hearts' desire
\__/  The Russian and Florence, _Chess_



From grante at visi.com  Sat Sep  6 14:07:28 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 18:07:28 GMT
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net>
Message-ID: <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874 at reader1.news.jippii.net>, Harri Pesonen wrote:

> I agree, it's not logical. I'm learning Python at the moment, and like 
> it very much. This "self" thing seems to be the only odd feature,

It seemed quite natural to me, but perhaps that's because I'd
used other languages that worked the same way.  Coming from
Modula-3 and Smalltalk, the way classes worked in Python seemed
quite intuitive.

OTOH, C++ seems like a real non-intuitive mess to me.

> it feels like the whole class feature was added later.

Why?

> The Quick Python book says that Python was designed to be
> object oriented from the ground up. Is it true?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... I think I'm
                                  at               having an overnight
                               visi.com            sensation right now!!



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep 22 11:45:57 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:45:57 GMT
Subject: DSU pattern (was Re: Trouble sorting lists (unicode/locale related?))
References: <le2rmvser1i3e9gptd2ihq1d7p21r7el62@4ax.com> <bkk4h1$9ke$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064154389.29357.python-list@python.org> <bkmd4q$t13$05$1@news.t-online.com> <DUCbb.100826$hE5.3550910@news1.tin.it> <bkn12v$tns$06$1@news.t-online.com> <Xns93FEA7FBE3167duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <VOEbb.101641$hE5.3573494@news1.tin.it>

Duncan Booth wrote:
   ...
> FWIW, I think something like this belongs in the standard library rather
> than as a method on lists or a new builtin.

Definitely not a method on lists, we agree on that.  Problem is, there
is no module in the standard library to collect "functions that are often
useful but not QUITE often enough to warrant being built-ins" (and if
there was, there are quite a few current built-ins I'd like to relegate
into such an auxiliary/utilities module), so that finding a good place,
other than built-ins, for such utility functions, is often a bother.


Alex




From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Sat Sep 20 16:07:17 2003
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:07:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: os.environ and os.path.chdir
References: <bkg2l2$aj3s$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <mailman.1064014365.1936.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkic1l$h4f$1@news.island.liu.se>

Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts.net> wrote:

> Quoting Yun Mao (maoy at cis.upenn.edu):
>> Hi,
>>    How to make changes to os.environ and os.path.chdir still effective after
>> I run the script? Currently, the changes are only good within my script. I
>> would like the shell who called python myprog.py also gets the change..
>> Thank you!

> To the best of my knowledge, this can't be done.
[...]
>As far as I know, though, there's no way to actually hijack the user's
>shell process. The user needs to explicitly give you that control.

Actually, there are a couple of ways to do it, at least under
Unix.  However, they have their problems...

One way is to stuff characters into the terminals input buffer
using the TIOCSTI ioctl.  Like this:

    import fcntl, termios
    for c in "cd /usr/lib\n":
	fcntl.ioctl(1, termios.TIOCSTI, c)

It only works if it is being run interctively, under a tty,
though.  If you have a shell script running the above program,
the shell script won't see the command, and thus won't change
directory.  It will be the original shell that gets the command.
And if you're not on a tty, it doesn't work at all.

Also, the command you stuff into the terminal can get mixed up
with normal type-ahead typed by the user, leaving some garbled
command for the shell to read.

So, it's not very reliable.


Another way is to attach a debugger to the parent process, and
force it to do the chdir() system call, or poke around in its
memory to change the environment variables.  Like this:

    import os
    gdb = os.popen('gdb $SHELL %d' % (os.getppid(),), 'w')
    gdb.write('call chdir("/usr/lib")\n')
    gdb.write('detach\n')
    gdb.write('quit\n')
    gdb.close()

Untested code, but you probably get the idea.

Changing the environment variables of the parent is a bit
trickier.  You need to know the memory layout of the parent,
so you can poke the correct bytes.  You might be able to locate
the variable 'environ' and follow it, but there is no guarantee
it is still pointing to anything useful.


However, I would recommend *against* both of these methods.
Don't try any of this stuff youselves, kids; always get a parent
to supervise this kind of experiments! :-)


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"The one who says it cannot be done should    ! bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 never interrupt the one who is doing it."    ! Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!



From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Tue Sep 16 21:06:37 2003
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:06:37 -0400
Subject: App development for Sharp Zaurus PDA using QTopia?
In-Reply-To: <3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <200309162106.37385.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Tuesday 16 September 2003 14:10, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I see there's a Python binary package available for the Sharp
> Zaurus PDA.  Has anybody deleloped an app for that platform?
> I'm wondering if the resource requirement of Python are a
> problem on that platform.


It works ok. I wouldn't try to do heavy number crunching with it or
process lots of data, but for basic PDA type apps it's fine. I wrote a
program for keeping attendance in my classes using the Qt
interface.  That's my only Qt experience - I've used Gtk for 6 years
so I'm more used to it.

Dave






From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep 25 09:58:26 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:58:26 GMT
Subject: Packages and PyKyra
References: <1dCcb.11020$Of2.520042@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <6wCcb.164799$R32.5291608@news2.tin.it>

Robert Clayton wrote:

> In the PyKyra example programs what does the statement:
> 
> "from PyKyra import *"
> 
> I now assume that this represents a Package hierarchy and not the file
> "PyKyra.py" as there is none but for Windows 2000 I am unable to determine
> whereor how  the path is represented (registry, environment, etc.).  Any
> suggestions?

I have no idea about what PyKyra is, but:

[a]
You can find out what the path is, at any time, by the two statements:

import sys
print sys.path

[b]
If you're right in stating there is no PyKyra.py file, then the
import may be coming from:
    [b1] a PyKyra.pyc or .pyo bytecode file
    [b2] a PyKyra.pyd or .dll C-coded extension module
    [b3] the __init__.py file in a PyKyra directory on the path

The only case involving "packages" is [b3] -- that's what a
package _IS_... a directory with an __init__.py file.


In any case, the "from PyKyra import *" statement gets the
contents listed in the __all__ entry in module PyKyra, or, if
no such entry, then all entries in module PyKyra whose names
do not start with a single underscore character _ .

The usage of "from whatever import *" is generally unadvisable
except perhaps in those rare cases in which module 'whatever'
has been carefully designed to support this.  Personally, I've
lost the habit of "import *" just about entirely -- even for
carefully designed modules such as Tkinter and Numeric, I do
"import Tkinter as Tk" or "import Numeric as N" and then access
their entries explicitly as Tk.Tk, N.array, etc, etc.  I find,
personally, that this makes my programs more maintainable.


Alex




From slhath at charter.net  Tue Sep 30 17:04:19 2003
From: slhath at charter.net (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:04:19 -0500
Subject: intercepting smtp email
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj6j3dv1di62b@news.supernews.com> <blc6f3$3si$1@green.tninet.se> <vnj8qip9k85a39@news.supernews.com> <5Uieb.49566$Lw6.2263065@phobos.telenet-ops.be> <blchun$o5u$1@green.tninet.se> <7tkeb.49855$CW5.2223199@phobos.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <vnjruln3ffbb46@corp.supernews.com>

Thanks for the suggestions.  My second alternative is to simply use the api
in outlook and be bound to that client.  Worse things have happened.

:)

Scott



"Rudy Schockaert" <rudy.schockaert at pandora.be> wrote in message
news:7tkeb.49855$CW5.2223199 at phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> It seems you've looking where I've earlier this week ;-) I'm affraid
> there's nothing for Python on Windows yet.
>
> .r!kard wrote:
>
> > Google rules:
> > http://home.student.utwente.nl/g.v.berg/btk/
>
> This one is for unices only, no Windows.
>
> > http://pycap.sourceforge.net
>
>  From the Todo.txt file:
>
> * Make this work on Windows.  I briefly struggled with compiling using
> VC7 under Win XP
>    using winpcap_ and LibnetNT_.  No luck, and was getting some rather
> interesting errors
>    about missing header files which appeared to be where they should be
:-/.
>
> > http://www.ghaering.de/python/unsupported/pylibpcap/
>
> This could be a candidate if it were available for Python 2.3.x . It's
> for Python 2.2 only now.
>
> > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/1578279
> Further down the thread:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-list/1578500
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>  >  http://www.ghaering.de/python/unsupported/pylibpcap/
>  >  I'll check if the sniff.py example will work, too.
>
> It doesn't look like it does. I may have introduced a subtle bug or some
> more changes are needed to make it useful under win32.
>
> If anybody wants to continue the win32 port, it's open source and you
> can continue where I stopped.
>
> -- Gerhard
>
> Out of luck again :-(
>
> >
> > *pheew* that was some real hardcore Googeling I can tell you...
> >
> > .r!kard
>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>>>>>>I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
> >>>>>>>traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can
> >>>
> >>>do
> >>>
> >>>>>>>something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the

> >>>>>>>outgoing traffic, specifically.
> >>
> >
> >
>





From ryan at ryanswift.com  Wed Sep  3 15:00:34 2003
From: ryan at ryanswift.com (Ryan Swift)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 12:00:34 -0700
Subject: Extracting TIFF from emails
References: <bc258e66.0309030604.1fdc0e8c@posting.google.com> <87y8x654qk.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bc258e66.0309031100.4c9b2810@posting.google.com>

I have found the email module, I am using 2.2.2.

This is my code:

if __name__ == "__main__":
    server = connect(mailserver, mailuser, mailpasswd)
    try:
        (msgCount, msgBytes) = server.stat()
        print '\nThere are', msgCount, 'mail messages, total',
msgBytes, 'bytes'
        print 'Retrieving message', msgCount, '\n'
        (hdr, message, octets) = server.retr(msgCount)
        print 'Header:', hdr
        print 'Octets:', octets
        print 'Message:', message

        email_file = open('email.txt', 'w')
        email_file.writelines(message)
        email_file.close()

        for part in message.walk():
            if part.get_content_maintype() == 'multipart':
                continue
            filename = part.get_filename()
            fp = open(os.path.join(dir, filename), 'wb')
            fp.write(part.get_payload(decode=1))
            fp.close()
    finally:                
        server.quit()       
    print 'Closed connection

I can print message and see it with no problems. It also gets written
to 'email.txt' with no problems.  It is a simple multi-part MIME email
with TIF attachment.  However, I get this error when I try to walk
through it:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 305, in RunScript
    debugger.run(codeObject, __main__.__dict__, start_stepping=1)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\__init__.py",
line 60, in run
    _GetCurrentDebugger().run(cmd, globals,locals, start_stepping)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 591, in run
    exec cmd in globals, locals
  File "C:\Python22\mailtest.py", line 29, in ?
    for part in message.walk():
AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'walk'

Am I not properly using walk?

Thanks again.



From lvraab at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 30 17:13:48 2003
From: lvraab at earthlink.net (Lucas Raab)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:13:48 GMT
Subject: Visual Basic integration
Message-ID: <gmmeb.38136$pP6.28714@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>

Can I use Python as an extension language to Visual Basic sort of like in C
or C++?





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Sep 24 20:11:01 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:11:01 -0700
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <tth3nvcb9oprv23bincf80c74051227vgv@4ax.com> <vdlcb.287$kD3.194@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <bksos0$jvi$07$1@news.t-online.com> <ln94nv0k81rdhkv9df39u94rhelmcpguo9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-267FAC.17110124092003@news.service.uci.edu>

> >      # let inifinite iterators identify themselves     
> >      assert not hasattr(obj, 'infinite') 
> >
> >As infinite iterators are rare, it would not be too cumbersome to let them
> >identify themselves as such.

It would be quite cumbersome to have to identify simple generators as 
infinite or finite manually, and impossible (halting problem) to do so 
reliably automatically.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From mark at hahnca.com  Tue Sep 30 18:32:58 2003
From: mark at hahnca.com (Mark Hahn)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:32:58 -0700
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <ywneb.4595$hp5.2974@fed1read04>

Isn't this what re.escape(string) is for?

"tertius" <tcronj at ananzi.co.za> wrote in message
news:3f793544$0$64721 at hades.is.co.za...
> Is there a better way to append certain chars in a string with a
> backslash that the example below?
>
> chr = "#$%^&_{}"          # special chars to look out for
> str = "123 45^ & 00 0_"   # string to convert
> n = ""                    # init new string
> for i in str:
>      if i in chr:          # if special character in str
>          n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
>      n+=i
> print "old:",str
> print "new:",n
>
>
> Thanks
> Tertius
>





From pheniks at softhome.net  Wed Sep 10 00:01:19 2003
From: pheniks at softhome.net (Page)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:01:19 +0200
Subject: advice choosing IDE
In-Reply-To: <c718a6cf.0309072041.10706579@posting.google.com>
References: <bhqe4p$23loq$1@ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de> <c718a6cf.0309072041.10706579@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjm7m7$21f5$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za>

Y2KYZFR1 wrote:
> Lupe <lupe at netvisao.pt> wrote in message news:<bhqe4p$23loq$1 at ID-202776.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> 
>>I'm convinced to try Python! 
>>
>>I've read many posts, and although I recently bought a book on C to start
>>learning it, I'd like to give Python a good chance.
>>
>>What IDE would you recommend for someone who needs easiness of use with a
>>background of Pascal and VB for MS Office?  I've definitely changed to
>>Linux now and I would like a free IDE either for procedural or object
>>oriented programming.
>>
>>I'd need an easy help on syntax, if possible with examples and a front end
>>debugger with easy trace, breakpoints and watches.
>>
>>Programming is not my profession, just a hobby!
>>
>>With all this in mind what would be your recommendation?  I've read so many
>>posts on the subject that I'm confused.  For a beginner, I just need one
>>solution...
>>
>>Lupe
> 
> 
> 
> your best bet is Komodo from ActiveState . . . not free but definately
> worth the money. The other bet is Visual Python from guess who,
> ActiveState it add great support for Python to Visual Studio 6 / .Met
> 
> Last choice would be Visual SlickEdit . . .
> 
> other than that, Python IDE choices are all just glorified color coded
> crappy text editors.

I find Wing IDE to work wonders.
Has all the essentials you'll need. And works on linux & win32 ;)
http://archaeopteryx.com/wingide

HTH
Page




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 14:36:44 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:36:44 +0100
Subject: extension call backs and the GIL
References: <pUnrihASxAe$EwRO@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <bl93hp$mgc$1@panix3.panix.com> <OWWCyJAWcCe$EwUM@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <bl9jh3$gc4$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8z8ebLA8uHe$EwB+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <bl9jh3$gc4$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
writes
......
>Looks like Bernhard has put you on the right track, but just for the
>record: calling an extension does not automatically release the GIL; you
>need to explicitly call the Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS macro.  I was just
>assuming that because you said "accelerator" you were already releasing
>the GIL.
The code is intended to run single thread so we never have done anything
about threading. It's a real pain. In a zope world we ought really to
give every request a fresh context ie each thread would see an entirely
'clean' python and then be forced to load its own fonts/resources. It
just sucks from the overall system viewpoint. How does one ensure that
each thread sees its own version of sys.modules etc etc or is that
considered a dumb question? 
-- 
Robin Becker



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Sep  4 13:07:58 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:07:58 +0300
Subject: Extracting TIFF from emails
References: <bc258e66.0309030604.1fdc0e8c@posting.google.com> <87y8x654qk.fsf@pobox.com> <bc258e66.0309031100.4c9b2810@posting.google.com> <87llt5fpcc.fsf@pobox.com> <bc258e66.0309040715.47714f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <n4selv4a1oqls4b8t9tlss8imlus40prls@4ax.com>

On 4 Sep 2003 08:15:28 -0700, rumours say that ryan at ryanswift.com (Ryan
Swift) might have written:

>Apparently I am getting the email as a list, but I don't know of a way
>to do it otherwise.

I assume you didn't see my reply since yesterday?

I don't know the mailconfig module; does it return a list of strings
that end with '\n'?  If yes, use

message = email.message_from_string(''.join(your_list_of_strings))

If not, substitute '\n' for '' in the line above.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 30 12:34:54 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:34:54 +0300
Subject: append special chars with "\"
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za> <DIaeb.142010$hE5.4836948@news1.tin.it> <8e4jnvgmkcs0v1p8vneln8d12r99s2t49f@4ax.com> <LKgeb.197302$R32.6338774@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bnbjnvon9ipfdfgv3i5h2nd60g8raftcqj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:50:19 GMT, rumours say that Alex Martelli
<aleax at aleax.it> might have written:

>Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:58:27 GMT, rumours say that Alex Martelli
>> <aleax at aleax.it> might have written:
>> 
>>>charmap = {}
>>>for c in chr: charmap[c] = c+'\\'
>> 
>> I believe you meant charmap[c] = '\\' + c ...
>
>Sure, if the original poster wants the backslash BEFORE the character
>(the "append" in the subject suggested to me he wanted it AFTER).

You are correct about the subject (append instead of 'pre-pend' -sp?),
but the OP's code was not appending, in spite of the comments:

for i in str:
     if i in chr:          # if special character in str
         n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
     n+=i

I just assumed the OP was a better coder than English speaker :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix



From rowen at cesmail.net  Wed Sep 10 14:37:46 2003
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:37:46 -0700
Subject: Running user scripts in a Tkinter app?
Message-ID: <rowen-B99352.11374510092003@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

I have a Python/Tkinter remote control application and want to add 
support for running user scripts.

I would like the scripts to be written in python, would like them to be 
able to update Tkinter widgets and (the hard part) would also like them 
to be capable of pausing until some condition is met (e.g. a remote 
control command finishes) without hanging the event loop.

I plan to add a library of routines to send commands and wait for 
specific replies. For example:
- call(cmd) sends a command string to the remote host and returns a 
"command object" that keeps track of the state of the command
- waitcmd(cmd_obj) pauses the script (but not the overall application) 
until cmd_obj finishes or fails

I'm confused as to the best way to write the "waitcmd" function. It 
seems like a good place to use threads, but my understanding is that 
Tkinter is not thread safe.

The only solution I've thought of is to try to recreate the Tkinter main 
loop within the wait function. Very crudely:

tkobj = Tkinter.Frame()

def waitcmd(cmd_obj):
  while not cmd_obj.isdone():
   tkobj.update()

I think this will work, but am worried it will be much slower than the 
usual Tkinter main event loop. If there was some way to start a new 
Tkinter event loop (while the main loop is paused) and terminate this 
new loop when the wait was finished, that'd be perfect.

Any suggestions? Would this be easier in some other GUI library?

-- Russell



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Sep  8 18:51:04 2003
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:51:04 -0400
Subject: gadfly gfplus error 
Message-ID: <KBWdnQrOmIdHmsCiXTWJgA@giganews.com>

Hello,

I've been playing around with gadfly, and it is a
great piece but I am having problems with gfplus
the interactive shell to gadfly.

Namely I get the following error when running the file:

---
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/bin/gfplus", line 3, in ?
     main()
   File 
"/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/gadfly/scripts/gfplus.py", line 
269, in main
     shell.cmdloop()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/cmd.py", line 109, in cmdloop
     self.preloop()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/cmd.py", line 150, in preloop
     if self.completekey:
AttributeError: GadflyShell instance has no attribute 'completekey'
---

It looks as if the GadflyShell does not provide  some attributes
that are needed later on. Inserting the

cmd.Cmd.__init__(self)

as the first line of the GadflyShell constructor solves this
problem. Is that the right solution?

Istvan.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 25 05:40:41 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:40:41 +0100
Subject: CGI Redirect to another page
References: <NW7cb.525$0j5.737525852@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com> <09a3d6364c.tim@worthy.demon.co.uk> <2c60a528.0309240338.1e4dd261@posting.google.com> <uoocb.691$291.949392743@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3F72B819.F76F0821@hotmail.com>

[Andrew Chalk wrote]
> What is wrong with meta-refresh?

It is claimed that search engines treat meta-refresh with suspicion. I
don't know if this is true or not. The following article (as an
example, this is just the first link I found when googling for "abuse
meta refresh"), claims that Altavista bans sites that use a meta
refresh period below 30 seconds.

META Refresh And Search Engines 
http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol4/promo_no15.htm

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Sep 11 18:17:59 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:17:59 -0300
Subject: list to string 
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F29@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- main (args):
#-         fhand=open(args[1:],"r+")

This is because args[1:] returns a list, and you need a string. See:

>>> mylist = ["first", "myfile.txt", "third"]
>>> mylist[1:]
['myfile.txt', 'third']
>>> mylist[2]
'third'
>>> 

.	Facundo




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Sep  4 10:31:04 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:31:04 +0200
Subject: question: How can I put empty directories into a zip-archive?
References: <3F574431.6020902@snafu.de>
Message-ID: <bj7im1$v51$03$1@news.t-online.com>

T. Kaufmann wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> in my directory are some 'normal' files like *.py sources and some empty
> directories too. How can I put all togehter into a zip-archive?
> 
> There is no problem to zip the *.py files but if I try to add empty
> directories
>   an exception is trown.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> o-o
> 
> Thomas

Try http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-June/170517.html

Peter



From fgeiger at datec.at  Sun Sep 28 07:50:27 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:50:27 +0200
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
References: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f76cabb@news.swissonline.ch>

Wing can do that too: Open both the editor and the source browser. In the
source browser select a method being in the module shown in the editor and
then select "Source".

Cheers
Franz

"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0 at 4ax.com...
> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
> looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
> methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.
>
> I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
> it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.
>
> This is something I got use to in Smalltalk and have found it quite
> useful when working on several methods that work closely together.
>
> Daniel Klein





From gyromagnetic at excite.com  Tue Sep 30 08:10:52 2003
From: gyromagnetic at excite.com (gyro)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:10:52 -0600
Subject: isNumber? check
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064867377.30354.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1064867377.30354.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f7972cc@news.ColoState.EDU>

Rob Hunter wrote:
> 
> On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 10:20 AM, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> 
>> Rob Hunter wrote:
>>
>>> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?
>>>
>>> One way is (x == type(1)) and (x == type(1.2)) and (x ==
>>> type(2387482734274)) and ...
>>>
>>> but this seems kludgy.  Any better way?
>>
>>
>> Why do you want to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> I am writing an interpreter, and my parser has to decide if an 
> expression is a number or not.
> 
> 
> 
>> Maybe, it is better in your
>> case to just run the piece of code using the number, and
>> if it fails, it fails.
>> However, if you must, you need to
>> do type(x) is type(1) and ... etc., or isinstance(x, int)
>> and isinstance(x, float), etc.
>>
>> Gerrit.
> 
> 
> 

Below is a function I sometimes use.

-g


def is_a_number(x):
     """This function determines if its argument, x, is in the
     format of a number. It can be number can be in integer, floating
     point, scientific, or engineering format. The function returns True 
if the
     argument is formattted like a number, and False otherwise."""

     import re
     num_re = 
re.compile(r'^[-+]?([0-9]+\.?[0-9]*|\.[0-9]+)([eE][-+]?[0-9]+)?$')
     mo = num_re.match(x)
     if mo:
         return True
     else:
         return False





From jallan at smrtytrek.com  Tue Sep 23 12:18:02 2003
From: jallan at smrtytrek.com (jallan)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:18:02 -0700
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis) wrote in message news:<m3smmo5zx6.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> 
> > # The German es-zed is special--the normal mapping is to SS.
> > # Note: the titlecase should never occur in practice. It is equal to
> > titlecase(uppercase(<es-zed>))
> > 
> > 00DF; 00DF; 0053 0073; 0053 0053; # LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
> > [...]
> > 
> > Thus, to comply with the standard, "?".upper() --> "SS" is required.
> 
> No. It would be required if .upper would claim to implement
> SpecialCasing - but it makes no such claim.

Of course not. From http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/string-methods.html#l2h-203:

<<
*upper(  	)*
    Return a copy of the string converted to uppercase.
>>

This makes no claim about how the magic is done. But there is
certainly an implied claim that it is done correctly.

Unicode specifications are easily available at
http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/.

At 3.13 is indicated:

<< The full case mappings for Unicode characters are obtained by using
the mappings from SpecialCasing.txt _plus_ the mappings from
UnicodeData.txt, excluding any latter mappings that would conflict. >>

Case mappings for Unicode require use of SpecialCasing otherwise the
results are not in accord with the Unicode standard.

At 4.2 is found:

<< Only legacy implementations that cannot handle case mappings that
increase string lengths should use UnicodeData case mappings alone.
The single-character mappings are insufficient for languages such as
German >>

I don't see any particular reason why Python "cannot handle case
mappings that increase string lengths".

Unicode again warns that using UnicodeData.txt alone is not
sufficient.

The text continues on "SpecialCasting.txt":

<< Contains additional case mappings that map to more than one
character, such as "?" to "SS". >>

Section 5.18 Case Mappings goes into further detail about casing
issues and  specifically mentions:

<< Case mappings may produce strings of different length than the
original. For example the German character U+00DF ? LATIN SMALL LETTER
SHAPR S expands when uppercase to the sequence of two characters "SS".
This also occurs where there is no prcomposed character corresponding
to a case mapping, such as with U+0149 'n LATIN SMALL LETTER N
PRECEDED BY APOSTROPHE. >>

See also http://www.unicode.org/faq/casemap_charprop-old.html for the
Unicode FAQ which contains:

<<
Q: Why is there no upper-case SHARP S (?)?

A: There are 139 lower-case letters in Unicode 2.1 that have no direct
uppercase equivalent. Should there be introduced new bogus characters
for all of them, so that when you see an "fl" ligature you can
uppercase it to "FL" without expanding anything? Of course not.

Note that case conversion is inherently language-sensitive, notably in
the case of IPA, which needs to be left strictly alone even when
embedded in another language which is being case converted. The best
you can get is an approximate fit. [JC]

Q: Is all of the Unicode case mapping information in UnicodeData.txt?

A: No. The UnicodeData.txt file includes all of the 1:1 case mappings,
but doesn't include 1:many mappings such as the one needed for
uppercasing ?. Since many parsers now expect this file to have at most
single characters in the case mapping fields, an additional file
(SpecialCasing.txt) was added to provide the 1:many mappings. For more
information, see UTR #21- Case Mappings [MD]
>>

Python specifications make an implied claim of full support for
Unicode and an implied claim that the function upper() uppercases a
string properly.

The implied combined claim is that Python supports Unicode and
supports proper casing in Unicode.

This implied claim is false.

Truly accurate documentation for upper() should say that it uppercases
a string except for those characters where uppercasing would expand a
character to more than one character in which circumstance that
character is not uppercased or uppercased with loss of data.

Python specifications need not say how casing is done, whether by
using Unicode tables directly or by using its own methods that
accomplish the same results.

Users should not have to know such details. They may wish to know
where a particular function does not do what might be expected of it.

Jim Allan



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep 23 17:41:45 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 23:41:45 +0200
Subject: convert Unicode to lower/uppercase?
References: <HBF.20030919jmx2@bombur.uio.no> <bkepb9$6a4$01$1@news.t-online.com> <299f1138.0309210940.32e9acfe@posting.google.com> <bkkusk$pvi$05$1@news.t-online.com> <bkm919$ast$01$1@news.t-online.com> <m3smmo5zx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <299f1138.0309230818.22bc9bf6@posting.google.com> <bkpvml$m67$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3brtbp4h2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

> Looking into stringobject.c (judging from a first impression,
> unicodeobject.c has essentially the same algorithm, but with a few
> indirections):

You are mistaken. The implementation in unicodeobject.c is
fundamentally different. The byte string implementation uses the C
library, the Unicode implementation uses the Unicode character
database. So the former cannot be changed, whereas the latter could,
in theory, be extended to use additional data.

Regards,
Martin




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Sep 25 06:24:03 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:24:03 +0200
Subject: Problems with string and lists (searching and replaceing)
References: <pan.2003.09.20.10.51.37.875000@hotmail.com> <bkhnpn$hgc$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bki8jq$269us$1@ID-167393.news.uni-berlin.de> <bkigtt$9jr$0@216.39.172.122> <bkim08$f8i$1@news.hccnet.nl> <pan.2003.09.21.06.55.07.16000@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bkug37$iv4$1@news.hccnet.nl>

jblazi <jblazi at hotmail.com> wrote:

>I shall have a computer science class this year and I decided to use
>Python. It is my favourite language and I have used it for many years. Now
>I thought, one of our first "real" programs, in our pre-graphical and
>pre-class state, would be to write simple program that works like this:
>
>One of the pupils enters a word. It should be a valid German word
>consisting of five letters, for example 'abcde' (which is not a German
>word by the way).

That may come as a surprise to non-German speakers ;-)

>The the other player may enter a guess which must be a five letter word as
>well, for example 'xbxxx'. Then the system answers with the string '-*---'
>as the 'b' in 'xbxxx' was correct and at the right place as well.
>
>Had the second player entered 'xxxbx', the system had responded with
>'---.-', as the 'b' is correct but not correctly positioned.
>
>The second player must find out the original word.
>
>Now I did not see how to do it as simply as posible, that was the problem.

Part of the confusion arose because it was thought to be a simple
problem, but instead it proved to be harder than it seemed. I have
experienced this while playing with it and loosing track of what was
going on inside my code. Thanks for posting your algorithm, without
that as a reference I probably would have had wrong code, thinking the
problem was easily solved. (I'm not completely sure I got it right
*this time* even)

<tangent>

Another matter is whether Python makes programming simpler for newbies
or if it only complicates things for them by introducing a lot of high
level language constructs. This is reminiscent of discussions about
whether computer processors with reduced instruction set (RISC) are
better than processors with more -and more complex- instructions.

The argument of the RISC philosophers is that higher functions could
be build using the few basic instructions and since higher functions
are subject to market fluctuations (sometimes they are used a lot and
sometimes not) it is preferable to only keep the basic set and to
build from that. This way of thinking is not limited to processor
developers but can also be observed in higher languages that pride
themselves in being flexible and fast (e.g. Lisp).

Of course the complex instruction set advocates remind us that we need
to cater to the needs of the programmers and that it is better to
provide batteries in order to prevent people making their own
sublanguage each time a commonly needed procedure has to be coded.
This way we get a coherent community and readable sourcecode.

The problem gets to the rockbottom of decision making if one is
presented with the need to teach newbies how to program. Of course
newbies are better off learning only a few basic functions and to
develop their own solutions as they go. It is even not uncommon for
teachers to have to face the raw uninterestedness that newbies tend to
express for complex instructions that they do not see the advantages
of. Sometimes later it is seen that it was good to learn all that
stuff, but more often than not it proves to be useless since history
has proven that higher functions are subject to popular demand anyway.

Now being a member of a community of programmers that all via one way
or another have come to understand different coding requirements and
seeing that all in all Python delivers a lot of the things one will
reach anyway after hard years of reinventing the wheel each time, the
question can be asked whether this knowledge can be found only by
having done it the hard way, and -only after that- recognizing the
elegance of the solutions offered, or if it is also possible to
transfer these insights directly to untrained programmers.

One problem that arises is that for newbies things make no difference
that for experienced Pythoneers are considered different. For example
are zip and enumerate really more difficult than using range and len
for iterating ? A newbie couldn't care less since they're both new.
The same goes for using dict.get versus dict[i]. So it could well be
that *experienced* Pythoneers are the real newbies here.

At the eve of introducing new language features like the ternary
operator, iterator tools, metaclasses, backward iterators, generators
etcetera, this discussion becomes a bit heated sometimes, because
every new function that is accepted adds to the constant threat of
total redesign of all Python functions using only a few basic
instructions. Projects like Pypy that try to rebuild Python using the
higher level constructs only are like someone having found a last
crate of beer at a very late hour of a garden party. It's good for
some fun but everybody knows that the end is near.

There is just no way around rebuilding the basic structure from the
ground up sometimes and IMO it would be advisable to rebuild Pythons
functionality not using Pypy -although it's a nice project- but by
making very small basic building blocks -like bitfields- and instead
of having all functions inside one mega-dll (pythonxx.dll) it would be
better to have each function inside its own dll and to access these
dlls using Ctypes or something like it. 

This way it would be possible to construct a Python from the ground
up, and instead of having a new release each time it would be possible
to just update a single dll. For an analogy of what I mean see the way
Cygwin distributes updates. It would create huge compatibility
problems for sure, but the gains would be even greater because new
higher order functions could be created on the fly, and newbies and
Pythoneers would be working side by side, with the newbies having the
advantage.

</tangent>

Ok, back to reality, here's some code I produced about your specific
problem, you can decide for yourself whether newbies would like it
more than the script you provided (I changed your script minimally in
order to be able to run it from my interpreter). It depends a lot on
dict.get returning "None" when an item is not found and on having the
value "0" in a dictionary being evaluated as "False" just as well as
"None" and on being able to specify a default value for dict.get that
it can return if there is no corresponding key in the dictionary. It
can handle strings of different size.

Anton

def vergleiche_woerter(wort,eingabe):
    eing = list(eingabe)
    wo   = list(wort)
    ergebnis=list('_'*len(wort))

    # Suche zuerst nach Bullen
    for i in range(len(eing)):
        if eing[i] == wo[i]:
            ergebnis[i] = '*'
            eing[i]=wo[i] = None

    for i in range(len(eing)):
        if eing[i] == None: continue
        if eing[i] in wo:
            j = wo.index(eing[i])
            ergebnis[i] = '.'
            wo[j] = None
    
    return "".join(ergebnis)

def hint(word,guess):
    res,cnt = [],{}
    for w,g in zip(word,guess):
        if w == g:
            res.append('*')
        else: 
            res.append('_')
            cnt[w] = cnt.get(w,0)+1
    for i,g in enumerate(guess):
        if cnt.get(g):
            res[i] = '.'
            cnt[g] -= 1
    return "".join(res)

def test(): 
    a,b = 'aabbab','aaaaaa'
    print a,b
    print vergleiche_woerter(a,b)
    print hint(a,b)

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()








From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep 10 18:50:29 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:50:29 +0200
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bjo9so$4k1$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> However, it would probably catch a very substantial portion of real
> accidental side-effect errors.

It may be a matter of taste, but I think it will cause a *very* substantial
portion of side effect errors. A simple example:

def nested(ref o):
    o = ReadOnly(o)

def fun(o):
    nested(ref o)
    # so glad we can do no harm to o...riginal

x = C()
fun(x)
x.attr = newValue # oops

Note that even in today's Python you can do weird stuff:

>>> class C: pass
...
>>> class D:
...     def __setattr__(self, n, v): raise Exception, "read-only"
...
>>> c = C()
>>> c.x = 1
>>> c.__class__ = D
>>> c.y = 2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in __setattr__
Exception: read-only
>>> c.x
1

This would at least propagate over the entire calling hierarchy.

To go back to your container example, if copying is costly and only
sometimes necessary, wrap the item into a copy-on-write proxy for every
logically distinct but physically identical instance. That decision should
be explicit rather than hidden as a side effect of a container class.

Peter



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Tue Sep 23 21:06:21 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 10:56:21 +0950
Subject: why the inconsistency?
References: <fbf22ff1.0309231704.3f324abf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbn1slt.s0.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 23 Sep 2003 18:04:33 -0700, mensanator wrote:
>>>> print `2**64`
> 18446744073709551616L
> 
> Why is the "L" there? I thought "L" isn't used anymore?

To answer this directly: because you've asked for the result of

    repr( 2**64 )

which, as demonstrated, is showing you that the number is stored as a
long integer (since the point of repr() is to show you information about
the type of the object as well as its value).

I believe the `foo` syntax is deprecated in favour of repr( foo ), no?
If you'd used repr(), perhaps the assumption would have become
apparent.

-- 
 \         "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a |
  `\                     dog, it's too dark to read."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Thu Sep 18 18:12:22 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (JCM)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:12:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Binding frustration
References: <mailman.1063920805.24865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkdak6$rcp$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Rob Hunter <rob at cs.brown.edu> wrote:
...

> def getGenres(title):  #it takes a movie title and returns a list of 
> genres that the movie falls into

>      result = [] # my accumulator

>      def inGenre(g): # g is a genre
>          if <here I test if "title" is of genre g (using a simple Python 
> dictionary I have collected from a mini web crawl)>:
>                result = result + [g] # if title is of genre g, then add 

Here you're attempting to rebind a variable which lives in an
enclosing scope.  This isn't possible in Python (except for globals).
Use result.append(g) instead and it should work.



From mark at diversiform.com  Thu Sep 18 11:22:39 2003
From: mark at diversiform.com (mark)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:22:39 -0700
Subject: Setting environment variables
In-Reply-To: <cscab.12804$g4.258706@news1.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <001301c37df8$b3a6f290$5501a8c0@markxp>

I tend to establish environment variables using an install program like
Inno Setup, then access them from within my Python script.  This worked
for me under Win2000, but I haven't tried it with XP.

HTH,

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of Sami Viitanen
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:41 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Setting environment variables

Hello,

Is there any other way to set variables than os.putenv().

Putenv doesn't actually put any values to actual system variables..

I'm trying to set CVSEDITOR variable automatically from script
so that user wouldn't have to set that him/herself. CVS can't use
variable
set with putenv().


Thanks in advance.


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list






From member37767 at dbforums.com  Tue Sep  2 11:21:44 2003
From: member37767 at dbforums.com (alantangcs)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:21:44 -0400
Subject: Embedding and Importing Problems
Message-ID: <3317430.1062516104@dbforums.com>

Hi All,



Currently, I am embedding Python in a C++ program. This is what it does:



1) Initializes the interpreter (Py_Initialize)

2) Run some simple code in a string which adds the directory "Script" to
   "sys.path"

3) Import the module contained in "init.py"



Now I place a file called "test1.py" in the "Script" directory. In
"init.py" (which is in the same directory as the C++ program), I place
the line "import test1".



When I run the program, all seems fine until I reach Py_Finalize. The
program just pops up an "Unhandled exception in ..... (python23.dll)
.... Access Violation".



Amazingly, if I replace the import line with "from test1 import *",
everything works perfectly as well, and I don't get the unhandled
exception problem. Does anyone have any ideas why "import" doesn't work?



Thanks!



Alan


--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 18:27:35 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 01:27:35 +0300
Subject: When passing functions as args,        how to pass extra args for passed function?
References: <mailman.1063746594.3920.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rf3fmvslsa82alunu0nghdv68jg2880k0j@4ax.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:08:53 -0400 (EDT), rumours say that
python at sarcastic-horse.com might have written:

>When I pass a function as an arg, like for map(...), how do I pass args to
>use for that function?
>
>If I have a function like this:
>
>def pretty_format(f, fmt='%0.3f'):
>    return fmt % f
>
>I want to use it with map() like this:
>
>formatted = map(pretty_format, unformatted_list)
>#exept I want fmt='%4.5f' !!!
>
>I need to figure out how to pass a non-default value for fmt.  How do I do
>that?

I believe this is what you want:

formatted = map(pretty_format, unformatted_list,
    ['%4.5f'] * len(unformatted_list))
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Thu Sep 11 11:44:24 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 15:44:24 GMT
Subject: Massive unit test vs MySQL
References: <hawkfish-F6DB4C.13344404092003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bja8ls$k1j$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-542F88.08165705092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bji5h7$bqo$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-921F58.15265908092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <bjkdoa$3ea$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <hawkfish-7B21B7.09501410092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <hawkfish-E07291.08435911092003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

In article <hawkfish-7B21B7.09501410092003 at spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>,
 Richard Wesley <hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com> wrote:

> In article <bjkdoa$3ea$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
>  Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Monday 08 September 2003 22:28, Richard Wesley wrote:
> > 
> > > In article <bji5h7$bqo$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>,
> > >  Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> > > 
> > 
> > > I doubt it - it is generated by mysqldump.  And there is no problem
> > > from the command line.
> > > 
> > 
> > I use exactly the same approach to set up my unit tests, but I have a
> > different way to get the mysqldump data into the database:
> > 
> > os.system('mysql database_name < dumpfile')
> 
> Sadly, this did not work, nor did garbage collection (gc.collect()).
> 
> For some reason, mysql is holding onto a whole lot of connections from 
> my script until the script terminates.

OK, I'm an idiot.  It had nothing to do with the reload script.  The 
connections were from the TestCase subclass I have that instantiates a 
connection management object.  It appears that the unittest module does 
not dispose of the objects it instantiates until the end of the run, so 
you need to REALLY clean up in the tearDown method.  I discovered this 
by making a persistent connection for the reload operation and noticing 
that the number of connections still increased.

Thanks to all who responded.

-- 
Best regards,

Richard Wesley
Co-President, Electric Fish, Inc.
<http://www.electricfish.com/>
(v) +1-206-493-1690x210
(f) +1-206-493-1697
(h) +1-206-632-4536
(m) +1-206-409-4536



From frank at pc-nett.no  Thu Sep 18 10:32:29 2003
From: frank at pc-nett.no (frank)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:32:29 +0200
Subject: ANN: Soprano 0.04 released
Message-ID: <bkcfjv$517t$1@ID-200515.news.uni-berlin.de>

Soprano is a GUI app that scans a selected range of ip addresses and try to
get info about the hosts such as users, localgroups, shares, operating
system.
This program only runs under windows.


changes 0.002 > 0.003:.
added settings window
setting are saved in xml and are stored under data\setting.xml
setting include:
"logon as" with username and password or use null request
resolv hostname
shares
users
groups
info
portscanner
improved right click menu\submenu.


new functions:
add user
add group
add share
send msg (NetMessageBufferSend)


changes 0.003 > 0.04:.

Looks a lot better!!!!

Added splitterWindow

treectrl and textctrl are now "children" of splitterwindow (makes the whole
thing look a lot better and more dynamic)

All the information gathered is now saved the xml file data\soprano.xml.

The soprano.xml is used to display info about the selected host after the
initial scan.

The pinger is now a separate file (pinger.py).


Source code and windows binary at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/soprano/





From prochak at netzero.net  Thu Sep 25 23:09:22 2003
From: prochak at netzero.net (Erik Lechak)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 20:09:22 -0700
Subject: Where to publish my code
References: <1f0bdf30.0309212039.16c9bef0@posting.google.com> <bkt6rh$pv0$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <1f0bdf30.0309251909.6745ed9@posting.google.com>

Hello,
 
> Not that I'm trying to discourage you in any way from working on your own, but
> are you familiar with viper?

I can't believe that I have never heard of this before.  It looks
neat, but it is implemented using tk (I prefer wxPython).  I need some
wxOGL-like functionality for other projects so I am writing a
wxOGL-like library in python.  A visual programming tool is just the
best demo/testing app I can think of to shake all the bugs loose.

Thanks for the link,
Erik Lechak



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Mon Sep 15 06:52:12 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:52:12 GMT
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <mailman.1063381340.26766.python-list@python.org> <17d520f6.0309130704.7944c876@posting.google.com> <87znh89ufv.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnbm8l54.o3i.grey@dmiyu.org> <878yoqoudj.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <xqxsmmy8gtf.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:
> 
> > On 2003-09-13, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> > > I've never seen anybody give a convincing reason why GTk is a good
> > >  choice for *anything* except writing GNOME apps.
> > 
> >     I run several GTK apps that don't touch Gnome:
> > Sylpheed-Claws
> > Pan
> > XChat
> > 
> >     GTK != GNOME.  
> [...]
> 
> Yep: that's exactly what I don't understand!  *Why* did you do that?
> 
> 
> John

Don't know about others, but I do it (run gtk-not-gnome apps) because
GTK...

a) Is easy to install on a variety of commercial *NIX systems, and
getting better on MS Win** (contrast to gnome).

b) Is fast loading (contrast to wx).

c) Is GPL on all platforms (contrast to QT/KDE).

d) Is rich enough/attractive enough (contrast to tcl).

e) Is less painful to bring up than a gnome or kde app if you happen
to be starting from somewhere else (e.g., fvwm2).

So while I run pretty much everything on my trusty Linux boxes, I tend
to focus on gtk for multi-platform. 


-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 342-5601



From rob at cs.brown.edu  Thu Sep 18 17:39:37 2003
From: rob at cs.brown.edu (Rob Hunter)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:39:37 -0400
Subject: Binding frustration
In-Reply-To: <701E2432-EA1F-11D7-967C-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <9A18BC06-EA20-11D7-967C-003065F081D2@cs.brown.edu>

So it just occurred to me that probably, in this case, the Python way 
is the Scheme way:

def getGenres(title):

     def inGenre(g):
         return <boolean test using g and title and the dictionary>

     return filter(inGenre, ['Comedy','Suspense', ...])

:)

But still, wrt my original complaint, doesn't it seem wrong that I 
couldn't write that program?

Rob

On Thursday, September 18, 2003, at 05:31 PM, Rob Hunter wrote:

> So I thought I had come to peace with binding in Python, but then this 
> happened to me:
>
> I was trying to do things the Python way (as opposed to the Scheme 
> way) as was suggested to me, and so here's a shortened version of my 
> program:
>
> def getGenres(title):  #it takes a movie title and returns a list of 
> genres that the movie falls into
>
>     result = [] # my accumulator
>
>     def inGenre(g): # g is a genre
>         if <here I test if "title" is of genre g (using a simple 
> Python dictionary I have collected from a mini web crawl)>:
>               result = result + [g] # if title is of genre g, then add 
> it to the accumulator
>
>      # and then I do a number of inGenre tests:
>      inGenre('Comedy')
>      inGenre('Sci-fi')
>      inGenre('Suspense')
>      ...
>      return result
>
> So what's wrong with this program?  Well, Python tells me:
>
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'result' referenced before assignment
>
> It seems my only choice is to move result to the global environment, 
> but if that's not a kludge, I don't know what is.  So why doesn't this 
> work?  Python lambdas are able to use "free" variables in this way.  
> Why not a def?  And more importantly, how should I get around this?
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Rob
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From nick.keighley at marconi.com  Wed Sep 24 10:28:25 2003
From: nick.keighley at marconi.com (Nick Keighley)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 07:28:25 -0700
Subject: Python <-> C via sockets
References: <8ad2cfb3.0309240113.19d9198a@posting.google.com> <bkroq8$8ud$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <8ad2cfb3.0309240628.dbbca33@posting.google.com>

Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.N0SP4M.com> wrote in message news:<bkroq8$8ud$1 at news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>...
> Nick Keighley wrote:
> > I'm probably missing something rather obvious, but is there a known 
> > problem with getting a Python based socket program to communicate with
> > a C based socket program? A simple echo server written in Python
> > (the example from Python in a Nutshell actually) will happily talk
> > to a Python based client. If a C based client is substitued the connection
> > is refused (or so the C client reports). The C client will talk to
> > a C server.
> 
> Communications between C and Python via sockets definetly work: we do that 
> every  day (no kidding ;-)
> 
> Can you post an example of your code?

by the time you read this the posted code may have appeared.
A call to htons() (convert unsigned short to network byte order) 
was ommitted on the C side.

this line:-
     sin.sin_port = PORT;

should read:-
    sin.sin_port = htons(PORT);


thanks!

-- 
Nick Keighley



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Sep 15 05:57:20 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:57:20 +1000
Subject: Could somebody please explain what is happening ....
In-Reply-To: <3f657f95$0$10968$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
References: <3f657f95$0$10968$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030915095720.GB2226@frobozz>

On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 08:59:42AM +0000, John Dean wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have been reading quite a lot of Python source code recently and I have
> come across a particular construct which I don't understand. I would be
> grateful if somebody could explain the reason for including the following
> lines of code. I have seen it only at the beginning of a module:-
> 
> global sys
> import sys
> 
> global os
> import os
> 
> ....
> ....
> 
> I know what global means and I know what import means but what is the reason
> for making an imported module global?

The 'global' statement is useless in the global scope (it only does
something useful inside functions), so I'm guessing that whoever wrote that
code didn't understand Python's 'global' statements.

-Andrew.





From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Sep 24 16:41:47 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 22:41:47 +0200
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in
news:3F71B857.2D1E3268 at engcorp.com: 

> Anthony Baxter wrote:
>> 
>> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community,
>> I'm happy to announce the release of Python 2.3.1 (final).
> 
> The highlights mention the existence of a new API
> PyThreadState_SetAsyncEnc, which is "deliberately accessible only from
> C", that can interrupt a thread by sending it an exception.
> 
> I can't find an online discussion of this, so I'm asking here.  Why
> was this made accessible only from C?  Is it dangerous?  Experimental?
>  Someone feels it will be used inappropriately if too readily
> available at the Python level? 

martellibot has something about it: 
http://www.strakt.com/docs/os03_threads_interrupt.pdf

> Presumably somebody will come up with a little extension module or
> other technique for calling this which will let anyone use it at will,
> so I'm unclear on why it should be made inaccessible from Python.

why bother with c, just use ctypes to call the function ;-)

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  8 13:11:26 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 10:11:26 -0700
Subject: negative indices for sequence types
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309071026.4c44b985@posting.google.com> <bjh94c$j9p$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0309080911.1cf73016@posting.google.com>

As is often the case, I think this comes down to documentation.  While
the behavior is mentioned early in the tutorial, I found it difficult
to find it in the reference -- but whatever, we can chalk this up to
RTFM on my part.

My explanation of the behavior is correct however.  list[a] always
equals list[a % len(list)].  A negative number mod N = its absolute
value subtracted from N:

a % n == n - abs(a) # where -n <= a <= 0

However if I want to count from the end of the list, I would of course
write
list[len(list)-a].  I wasn't really considering that the purpose of
this feature was to count from the end of a list, which I admit could
come in handy.

Thanks for the responses.

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bjh94c$j9p$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>...
> dan wrote:
> 
> > I was recently surprised, and quite shocked in fact, to find that
> > Python treats negative indices into sequence types as if they were
> > mod(length-of-sequence), at least up to -len(seq).
> > 
> > This fact is *deeply* buried in the docs, and is not at all intuitive.
> 
> Very deeply indeed: section 3.1.4 of the beginner's tutorial:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html#SECTION005140000000000000000
> 
> Of all places, this is the section on lists:
> 
> >>> a = ['spam', 'eggs', 100, 1234]
> 
>         [... snip ...]
> 
> >>> a[-2]
>  100
> >>> a[1:-1]
> ['eggs', 100]
> 
> > Can anyone explain why this anomaly exists, and why it should continue
> > to exist?
> 
> Because this 'anomaly' is incredibly useful in many contexts, as many others
> have already pointed out.  Rest assured that it will continue to exist,
> probably for as long as the language is around.  Better get to like it :)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> f.



From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Sat Sep 27 21:17:53 2003
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:17:53 +0000
Subject: Tutor
In-Reply-To: <6kqdb.146$Vb3.97520@news1.news.adelphia.net>
References: <6kqdb.146$Vb3.97520@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3f763600$0$24183$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

After reading How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with 
Python, I suggest you start reading www.diveintopython.org or buy Python 
  2nd edition from O'reilly's, the books VERY good. It teaches you 
almost everything from handeling strings to network connectivety. It 
even handels python's standard GUI toolkit TK.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Sep  2 14:07:25 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:07:25 -0400
Subject: win32com problems with Visible property
References: <f431a335.0309020839.486b6f92@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F54DC5D.62B1C7C0@engcorp.com>

Rebecca Taylor wrote:
> 
> I have been working with win32com on python for 2 years now.  I
> recently tried to modify an older script I had made which creates and
> excel workbook, fills it with data and then graphs the data.
> 
> Nothing is working!
> When I try to run it I get this error:
> 
> "Property '%s.%s' can not be set." % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: Property 'Excel.Application.visible' can not be set."
> 
> Does anyone know why this is happening?  I can't figure out if windows
> has changed or if win32all or the new python distribution is the
> problem.  Worse yet, I reinstalled my old versions of python and
> win32all and that isn't working either!

I'm not sure what the problem is, but cutting and pasting the *actual*
traceback instead of retyping might help us find it, or at least would
help us trust everything you're saying.  Not having 100% confidence 
in a problem report (as in this case) tends to make one investigate
less intensely, I've found...

-Peter



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Sep  8 10:50:39 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:50:39 -0300 
Subject: FAQs in spanish
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382ECA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Hi!

I searched for FAQs in spanish, and I didn?t found them.

Can you please tell me if there is anyone?

Because I can translate them but don?t wan?t to duplicate efforts...

Thanks.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
confidencial o propietaria, cuya divulgaci?n es sancionada por la ley. 

Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From nobody at wanadoo.fr  Sat Sep 27 16:39:04 2003
From: nobody at wanadoo.fr (Phil)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:39:04 +0200
Subject: Module using Numeric array: strange behaviour
Message-ID: <nobody-2709032239040001@mix-grenoble-110-3-189.w80-9.abo.wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

I don't understand this strange behaviour:

I compile this code :

   #include <Python.h>
   #include"Numeric/arrayobject.h"
   
   static PyObject *
   return_vector(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
   {
   PyObject *input1;
   PyArrayObject  *vector;

   if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", &input1))
   return NULL;

   vector = (PyArrayObject *)PyArray_ContiguousFromObject(input1,
PyArray_DOUBLE, 1, 1);

   if (vector == NULL)
   return NULL;

   return PyArray_Return(vector);

   }

   /* registration table  */
   static struct PyMethodDef testMethods[] = {
      {"return_vector", return_vector, 1},       /* method name, C func
ptr, always-tuple */
      {NULL, NULL}                   /* end of table marker */
   };
   
   /* module initializer */
   void inittest()                       /* called on first import */
   {                                      /* name matters if loaded
dynamically */
       (void) Py_InitModule("test",testMethods);   /* mod name, table ptr */
       import_array();        /* indispensable pour utiliser les arrays */
   }

Very simple: this module takes a Numeric array (vector) as argument and
send this array back to python...

If I compile it under macOSX, the result in python is:

>>> import test
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> v=array([1.0,2.0,3.0,4.0],Float)
>>> v
array([ 1.,  2.,  3.,  4.])
>>> test.return_vector(v)
array([ 1.,  2.,  3.,  4.])

but in linux the result is:

>>> import test
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> v=array([1.0,2.0,3.0,4.0],Float)
>>> v
array([ 1.,  2.,  3.,  4.])
>>> test.return_vector(v)
array([ 1.+0.j,  2.+0.j,  3.+0.j,  4.+0.j])

Strange !!! the result is a complex array.
The C vector is really complex because if I try to use it in the C module,
the result is...incomplete.
For example, if I try to multiply each item of the vector array by a
scalar ( pi for example) in a loop, I get this result in python:


>>> import test
>>> from Numeric import *
>>> v=array([1.0,2.0,3.0,4.0],Float)
>>> v
array([ 1.,  2.,  3.,  4.])
>>> test.return_vector(v)
array([ 3.14159265+0.j, 0.+0.j,  6.28318531+0.j,  0.+0.j])

It's the result of pi* 1.0, 0.0, 2.0, 0.0 ( the four first elements of the
internal representation of the complex array ([ 1.+0.j,  2.+0.j,  3.+0.j, 
4.+0.j]).

Anyone any idea where I'm going wrong?
Thank you for any help.

Philippe



From richie at entrian.com  Thu Sep 18 11:56:48 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:56:48 +0100
Subject: How to inheritance overwrite non virtual?
In-Reply-To: <slrnbmjjp4.her.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
References: <slrnbmjhjr.gud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com> <bkchst$q0r$03$1@news.t-online.com> <slrnbmjjp4.her.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <v5ljmv4am58a6ab95maojhpv6rof7uetpn@4ax.com>

[Axel]
> The mother-class is calling the method of the child-class, not
> it own method. I want the mother-method to be called like "the
> chield never was existing", but I find no way.

class A:
    def bwahHaHa(self):
        """When called by callMe(), derived classes don't get a look in."""
        print "Bwah-Ha-Ha!"
    
    def callMe(self):
        """Calls non-overridable method bwahHaHa()."""
        A.bwahHaHa(self)   ########## This is the interesting bit ##########

class B(A):
    def bwahHaHa(self):
        """Vain attempt to override what callMe() does."""
        print "Squeak"

b = B()
b.callMe()      # Prints "Bwah-Ha-Ha!"
b.bwahHaHa()    # Prints "Squeak"

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From mark.wondratschek at sap.com  Mon Sep  1 07:28:25 2003
From: mark.wondratschek at sap.com (Mark Wondratschek)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 13:28:25 +0200
Subject: Python zipfile: Zip empty directories.
References: <binifo$he7$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <binjpm$pak$00$1@news.t-online.com> <binkq2$it5$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <biqg9h$9g8$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bivagq$h42$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

ThanX a lot Peter!

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:biqg9h$9g8$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Mark Wondratschek wrote:
>
> > but this must be supported by the zip format
> > ('cause winzip etc. does it this way). The empty-file idea was one of my
> > reflections, too. But I'm sure there must be better ways...
>
> See what I've found (did not test it myself) googling for
> zip empty directory:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-June/170517.html
>
> Peter





From user at invalid.domain  Mon Sep 15 05:58:48 2003
From: user at invalid.domain (Invalid User)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:58:48 +0200
Subject: configuration files and 'distutils'
Message-ID: <bk42gq$na0$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

How can I specify where the configuration files specfied in the
'data_files' section should go?
For example, if I have:
    data_files=[('config', ['connection.cfg'])]

How can I have a configuration file placed anywhere else beside the
default '/usr/config' directory?




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 30 04:36:08 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:36:08 GMT
Subject: overriding  built-ins
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5@posting.google.com> <fbf8d8f2.0309292049.eea47e6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Yfbeb.194368$R32.6272607@news2.tin.it>

dan wrote:

> Thanks for the responses, and my apologies for getting the terminology
> confused.  What I really should have asked is this:
> 
> * Is there any way to create your own statements?
> and,
> * if so, can they override the names of built-in statements such as
> 'print'?
> 
> To which the answers seem to be, no, and definitely not (with a strong

Right.

> hint of "why would you ever want to do that"?)

Actually, I suspect it's pretty obvious to most respondents why one
might want to create their own language, embedded inside Python but
enriched and modified.  Guido himself is on record as having the far
_dream_ of one day managing to let people define "application-specific
languages" inside Python -- IF he can come up with a smart way to
do it, one that won't destroy Python's simplicity and utter
straightforwardness.  I suspect that "strong hint" reflects a deep
distrust that any such silver bullet exists, and a deep fear that in
the pursuit of such elusive goals Python's simplicity and philosophy
of "there should be only one way to do it" might be destroyed.

There exist languages which have very powerful macro systems.  Common
Lisp is the canonical example, but if you prefer syntax that is rather
more Python-like you might look into Dylan instead.  Lisp and Dylan
also share the powerful concept of "multiple dispatch", a way to do
OO that is as superior to C++'s or Python's as the latter is superior
to that of _purely_ single-inheritance languages [ones without even
such helpers as Java interfaces or Ruby mixins].  Some languages do
not really have such power, but can still come close -- e.g., in
Smalltalk, "IF" is not a _statement_, just a method to which you pass
code blocks, so there is little impediment to piling up "more of the
same" to make your own application-specific language inside it; to
a lesser extent, you can do somewhat similar things in Ruby -- and
Perl has its own inimitable way (google for "Lingua Latina Perligata"
if you're REALLY TRULY into such... ahem... divertissements:-).

A widespread feeling around the Python community is that Python's own
uniqueness is SIMPLICITY.  Python is straightforward and thereby most
productive because it DOESN'T EVEN TRY to let you bend its syntax in
strange ways (in that, it's closest to Java -- i.e., it even lacks the
puny "preprocessor" that C and C++ come with).  If you want an
application-specific language, you design and implement it in the good
old time-trusted way -- lexx and yacc, or their Python equivalents (of
which there are quite a few) -- Python stays Python, your language
is your own, and everybody (hopefully) is happy...;-).


Alex




From rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au  Tue Sep  9 23:40:42 2003
From: rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au (Chris)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:40:42 GMT
Subject: Embedded Perl or Python (XPost)
References: <c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911@news.teranews.com>
Message-ID: <c0b506dfad7e98c782d3d08ee2ee7fae@news.teranews.com>

Chris <rebel at removethis.rebel.com.au> wrote in
news:c907a3eba2b531449c8dc7a212285911 at news.teranews.com: 

> Hi
> 
> I am posting this on both the perl and python groups

SNIP

> 
> QUESTION
> 
> Given the above which interpreter is most likely to fit my bill with
> the smallest footprint ?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Chris

Ok Guys thanks for the input

I have decided to try and take the best of both worlds (why not)

Size restrictions permitting I will include both a PERL interpreter and a 
Python Interpreter 

at least as a users choice

That way I get all you wonderful developers creating fab scripts to 
extend my software 

:-)

Chris





From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Thu Sep 11 09:47:56 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:47:56 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
Message-ID: <000501c3786b$4e861630$0c02a8c0@Arts>

>I think it's a mistake to cite Lott here. As an >extreme libertarian he
>has shown his own bias a couple of times. His >famous "More guns, less
>crime" findings has been challenged recently >>(see e.g.
>http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,562387,00.html),
>and he could not produce any evidence whatsoever that his telephone
>survey on the crime-repelling effects of gun carrying has been actually
>conducted.

I have never owned a gun, nor can off-hand think of anyone I know well who
does own a gun.

So am not excitable on the issue.

But I do find that the repeated use of statistics in this thread is quite
the problem, not quite the solution.  Those claiming a right to gun
ownership are specifically claiming the irrelevancy of such analysis.  That
is exactly, in many ways, the point - it seems to me.

Statistically, they have exactly one family.  And statistically have the
right - in their to view - to do exactly what they statistically decide is
necessary to protect that statistic.

To in fact specifically not be a statistic.

Yes, there is something quite American about that viewpoint.  God bless.

Art





From lp at your-pants-coder.dk  Mon Sep  1 05:35:54 2003
From: lp at your-pants-coder.dk (Larz)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 09:35:54 GMT
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com> <3f530ea6$0$32489$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162>

> The documentation takes contributions on example snippets,
> description, etc. so when the site is completely done and a base of
> documentation have been posted, im gonna post link in here, then maybe
> the community will help us to create a great documentation source :)

Hi all, I'm the friend that Dan is talking about ;)

Just wanted to clarify our project a little bit.

Dan and I are long time php programmers. One thing that is superb about 
php, is it's online documentation that everyone in the community can 
contribute to (not the actual documentation, just comments with 
examples).

Every since I first started using python, I've truly missed a 
documentation source similar to that of PHP's. So Dan and I have started 
our little project to make a documentation site in the spirit of that 
documentation.

So far it looks great, and you can see some python documentation by using 
URLs like http://example.com/doc/string.split and there will of course be 
a search function.

Also, it will not only be the "standard" modules of Python, by suggestion 
(and perhaps permission), we will include third party modules, such as 
MySQLdb and the like.

As Dan writes, it will be ready very soon, within a few weeks. It will of 
course be devoid of user comments in the beginning, but we're hoping that 
users will contribute with some of their invaluable experience!



Best regards,

Lars Petersen

-- 
larz
to mail me, remove your pants!



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 07:15:09 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:15:09 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <bjne1b$jm5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <jnkulv8t6e1qc3mb4pmf0k706e98pgmss2@4ax.com> <3F5F83B1.48763F85@alcyone.com> <cg5vlvgorsi88elsn9ur5ueavpg27d7ui3@4ax.com> <3F5FD6D7.119F04A1@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <4ql0mv0965j34bv92ug1fviajfir4lg2qe@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:58:47 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> I don't agree with this.
>> 
>> If the caller has to specify the behaviour in the syntax they use for
>> the call AS WELL AS the definition (in both cases using the 'ref'
>> modifiers) then the call mechanism is 100% explicit and predictable.
>> If, given Pythons dynamism, you have an function object of the wrong
>> type (and therefore one which does not support the call mechanism you
>> are trying to use) then it will fail - just as attempting to do a
>> conventional function call on a non-function will fail.
>
>That isn't what I meant.  Look at the following code:
>
>	someFunction(thisArgument, thatArgument)
>
>With Python as it stands right now, I know that this call can never
>rebind the names thisArgument and thatArgument.  It doesn't matter what
>someFunction is, it doesn't matter what thisArgument or thatArgument
>are.  I know it can never happen.
>
>With your proposed change, now whenever I see a function call in code I
>don't know whether it's going to rebind names from the caller's side. 
>It might, it might not.  Furthermore, with Python's dynamicism, it might
>be hard to tell without running the code (since functions are first
>class objects, inspecting the function name may not help).

Wrong.

That statement will behave exactly as it always did, and CANNOT rebind
thisArgument or thatArgument even if my suggestion were implemented.
The CALLER has to EXPLICITLY allow the rebinding by using the ref
flags IN ADDITION TO specifying it in the function definition, as is
done in C# - that was the whole point.

With this call, the first argument may be rebound but not the second
(assuming the function was written to accept the arguments specified
that way).

	someFunction(ref thisArgument, thatArgument)
                      ^
                      |
              Note this explicit
             modifier in the call

However, I am still retracting the suggestion for reasons I have
already covered.




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Tue Sep  2 00:51:42 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:51:42 +1000
Subject: homebrew 2.3 install on RedHat9 not playing nice with Tkinter 
In-Reply-To: <200309010953.32852.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> 
Message-ID: <200309020451.h824pgv9031012@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Martin Franklin wrote
> Red Hat Linux: Red Hat 9 built Python2.2 in UCS-4 mode and hacked
>         Tcl to support it. To compile Python2.3 with Tkinter, you will
>         need to pass --enable-unicode=ucs4 flag to ./configure.
> 
> Which I did and now _tkinter.so is building  of the box
> so in answer to OP read the README;-)

Note that this will "work", but the resulting tk applications will leak
memory like a sieve. 

-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Sep  1 10:06:32 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 15:06:32 +0100
Subject: artificial intelligence
References: <mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bivjim$u9t$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Arthur" <ajsiegel at optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list at python.org...
> >Maybe there was some notice about using Python in
> >geophysic and the symposium book in one journal, so there was a sudden
> >spat of, say, three people who bought both.
>
> You would think the parameter for a statistically significant sample size
> would be a fundamental concept in this kind of thing. And no action taken
> before one was determined to exist.
>

Statistical tests take sample sizes into account (so e.g. a larger effect
will tend to be statistically significant for a smaller sample size).
Sample size calcs. are more useful when you're in a position to determine
how large the sample will be.

> OTOH, the concept of "coincidence" must necessarily be ruled out in AI, I
> would think.
>

Coincidence can't generally be ruled out, but you can look for relationships
in the (sample) data that would be unlikely to be present if the same
relationships weren't also present in the population.

> *Our* intelligence seems to give us a read as to where on the bell curve a
> particular event may lie, or a least some sense of when we are at an
extreme
> on the curve.  Which we call coincidence. AI would probably have a
> particularly difficult time with this concept - it seems to me.
>

Some people have a difficult time with (or are unaware of) "statistical
thinking".  Maybe some of them are involved in AI?  (Well, of course some of
them are. :-))

> Spam filtering software must need to tackle these kinds of issues.
>

It can do, and I've no doubt some of it does.  Spam filtering is a
classification problem and can be handled in a variety of ways.  It's
generally easy to come up with an overly complex set of rules / model that
will correctly classify sample data.  But (as you know) the idea's to come
up with a set of rules / model that will correctly (as far as possible)
classify future data.  As many spam filters use Bayesian methods, I would
guess that they might be fitted using Bayesian methods; in which case overly
complex models can be (at least partially) avoided through the choice of
prior, rather than significance testing.

What do Amazon use?  My guess (unless it's something really naive) would be
association rules.

Duncan

> Art
>
>





From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Mon Sep 29 22:31:50 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:31:50 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <cm1m41-hv6.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <m3smmfqa5l.fsf@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:

>         Forgive me if this has some obvious facet that I'm missing -- I'm not 
> experienced in os.spawnv* family.

Neither am I. In fact, this program was my first use of it. 

>         However, the documentation I have for os.spawnv() suggests
> that this call alone will create a separate/new process. And you are
> calling it with a no-wait argument... So why do you even need the
> threading overhead?

This isn't the behaviour I found here on a Linux box. The caller
process got 'stuck' and only worked again when the called proccess
ended. 

With threads I got it working all the time. 

>         Hmmm, if "another.py" is the target, you may be encountering the 
> possibility that Windows doesn't know how to start a .py file from the 
> command line. Windows (especially the W9x line) doesn't, to my 
> knowledge, honor #! lines in script files.

Using the thread module I could get it to work on Windows and then,
yes. I got this problem. :-)

Sorry for my lameness on Windows but this isn't my platform of
choice. I'll add some conditional and check the platform... 

On the other hand, isn't there a way to associate programs with
extensions on Windows? Wouldn't this solve the problem with the call I
made? Or it only works in certain circunstances and (by Murphy's law)
this is not one of those circunstances? 


Thanks for your help,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 05:09:53 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:09:53 +0100
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <y7Ncb.3617$RW4.1457@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <pnjanv02metj5q30ivo2h3qhon03egaf59@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:03:10 GMT, "Andrew Dalke"
<adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>Stephen Ferg:

>> At one time, it was accepted as a truism that Windows (like MS-DOS)
>> was different from Unix because Windows used the backslash as the path
>> separator character, whereas Unix used the forward slash.
>
>It was?  My copy of Norton's Guide to the IBM PC makes
>the explicit statement that directories were directly influenced by
>unix.  I actually regard this as a point of similarity.  The character
>used is a minor issue.

Directly influenced, yes - but as DOS 1 didn't have subdirectories but
did have options marked with '/', the unix subdirectories couldn't be
duplicated exactly in DOS 2. The character used *is* a minor issue,
but it is still a difference - what Stephen Ferg wrote is, I believe,
valid.

Even if DOS was internally happy to accept '/' as a path separator,
still the 'accepted as a truism' bit rings true to me - what is
accepted as an obvious truth is not always actually true, and to most
people users DOS was the command line and Windows was just a shell on
top of DOS - the 'truism' was what people could see, not what was
hidden away in the INT 21h calls that only programmers cared about.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep  3 10:33:59 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:33:59 -0600
Subject: win32com problems with Visible property
In-Reply-To: <vl9u4v1m3gli52@corp.supernews.com>
References: <f431a335.0309020839.486b6f92@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030903082835.01d6b178@66.28.54.253>

At 04:07 PM 9/2/2003 -0400, David Rushby wrote:

>"Rebecca Taylor" <jrbexbox at hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:f431a335.0309020839.486b6f92 at posting.google.com...
> > I have been working with win32com on python for 2 years now.  I
> > recently tried to modify an older script I had made which creates and
> > excel workbook, fills it with data and then graphs the data.
> >
> > Nothing is working!
> > When I try to run it I get this error:
> >
> > "Property '%s.%s' can not be set." % (self._username_, attr)
> > AttributeError: Property 'Excel.Application.visible' can not be set."
> >
> > Does anyone know why this is happening?  I can't figure out if windows
> > has changed or if win32all or the new python distribution is the
> > problem.  Worse yet, I reinstalled my old versions of python and
> > win32all and that isn't working either!
>
>The property is named 'Visible', not 'visible'.
>
>When makepy is run, COM identifiers become case-sensitive.  Perhaps your old
>installation of win32com hadn't been makepy-ified, but the new one has?

I don't think this is the problem. If it were the OP would get an attribute 
error. "...object has no attribute 'visible'"

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From aaron at brokensociety.com  Mon Sep  1 03:05:00 2003
From: aaron at brokensociety.com (Aaron Kunkle)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 00:05:00 -0700
Subject: os.popen to pyqt widget
Message-ID: <1062399899.4475.29.camel@aaron>

I'm trying to pipe the output of a shell command (with os.popen) to a
QTextEdit to show the output in real time.  Can some one help me with
this?  I'm guessing I need some kind of buffer to check on the output
every so often but I'm new to python so I don't know a good way of doing
that.  I can send or post my source code so far if anyone would like to
see it.

Thanks,
Aaron
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From Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com  Mon Sep 15 21:03:58 2003
From: Mike at DeleteThis.Geary.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:03:58 -0700
Subject: object.attribute vs. object.getAttribute()
References: <roy-81B3E5.20291015092003@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vmcobujsbf1u22@corp.supernews.com>

I've always disliked accessor methods in C++ and Java. I can understand the
reason for using them, but they are just so ugly.

Danger: Advice from a Python newbie follows... :-)

My suggestion would be to use Python properties, as defined with the
property() function that was added in 2.2. Best of both worlds: You get the
clean syntax of directly reading and writing properties just as if they were
attributes, but behind the scenes you've defined get/set/del functions for
each property.

Personally, I wouldn't define properties for everything--I would use
ordinary attributes wherever they do the job. The beauty is that you can
always replace an attribute with a property without having to change the
calling code--which eliminates most of the reason for using accessor methods
as you would in C++.

-Mike

Roy Smith wrote:
> For the past 6-8 months, I've spent most of my time writing C++ and a
> little bit of Java.  Both of these languages support and encourage the
> use of private data and explicit accessor functions, i.e. instead of
> writing x = foo.bar, you write x = foo.getBar().  Now that I'm back to
> writing Python, I find myself in a quandry.
>
> Historically, I've always avoided accessor functions and just reached
> directly into objects to get the value of their attributes.  Since
> Python doesn't have private data, there really isn't much advantage to
> writing accessors, but somehow I'm now finding that it just feels wrong
> not to.  I'm not sure if this feeling is just a C++/Java-ism that will
> cure itself with time, or if perhaps it really does make sense and I
> should change the way I code.
>
> On the plus side, accessors/mutators give me:
>
> 1) Implicit documentation of which attributes I intended to be part of
> an object's externally visible state (accessors).
> 2) Hooks to do data checking or invarient assertions (mutators).
> 3) Decoupling classes by hiding the details of data structures.
> 4) Vague feeling that I'm doing a good thing by being more in line with
> mainstream OO practices :-)
>
> On the minus side:
>
> 1) More typing (which implies more reading, which I think reduces the
> readability of the finished product).
> 2) Need to write (and test) all those silly little functions.
> 3) Performance hit due to function call overhead.
> 4) Only the appearance of private data (modulo some slots hackery).
> 5) Code is harder to change (adding functionality means going back and
> adding more slots).
> 6) Vague feeling that I'm dirtying myself by letting C++ and Java change
> my Python coding habits :-)
>
> Comments?





From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep 22 10:46:58 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:46:58 GMT
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com> <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com> <mailman.1063990230.32233.python-list@python.org> <7h3d6dt9e8i.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1064237179.29198.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3smmo996u.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Holger Krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > Holger Krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
> > 
> > > Although probably 2/3 of the implementation of Python deal with the
> > > type/object implementations, from a using-the-language point of view
> > > the syntax probably contributes more obviously to the observed
> > > "simplicity" of Python.
> > 
> > OK, I disagree with you, too :-)
> 
> Nah, that's almost impossible because I have carefully interspersed 
> the above sentence with "probably" and "more obviously" :-)

OK, you're right in what you say -- the syntax probably does make more
of an obvious impact.  I'll carry on believing that the powerful data
structures are more important, but that hardly contradicts your
paragraph.

> > > But the term "meta object protocol" seems to point much more into
> > > the direction of types/objects as Michael suggests and here Python
> > > has a lot to offer. Is there some free material on MOP somewhere?
> > 
> >     http://www.elwoodcorp.com/alu/mop/contents.html
> 
> Uuh, it's all LISP based, i see.

Well, CLOS (== Common Lisp Object System).  Difficulties in
understanding are likely to come as much from not grokking CLOS as not
grokking Lisp.

> Maybe i still give it a try. Anyone willing to give a pythonic
> crash-course in LISP in - say - 10 x 5-line paragraphs?  :-)

Not right now, sorry...

> > looks like being a version of AMOP online, you know that book I
> > brought with me to one of the pypy sprints :-) (actually, it may have
> > been the Gothenbourg sprint).  I can bring it to the next sprint I
> > come to, if you like.
> 
> sounds good and like more fun than funding papers.

Actually, the URL isn't the text of the book, but is similar
material...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  This system uses a highly redundant optical communication technique
  to achieve ultra-low, ultra-robust transmission.  The basic unit is
  the M1A1 tank. 
     -- RFC 1217, Memo from the Consortium for Slow Commotion Research



From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Thu Sep 25 09:52:04 2003
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 13:52:04 GMT
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
Message-ID: <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Invalid User <user at invalid.domain> writes:

> Is this to be expected?
> (python 2.2.2)
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
>  >>> for x in range(5):
> ....   print x*x
> .... else:
> ....   print "done"
> ....
> 0
> 1
> 4
> 9
> 16
> done
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

Yes.  The else clause is invoked iff the for loop terminates normally.
Contrast with:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> for x in range(5):
...     print x*x
...     if x==4:
...             break
... else:
...     print "did all"
... 
0
1
4
9
16
>>> 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

(This happens to be the *reverse* of what my intuition expects - it
would seem more natural if the syntax meant "do this for loop to
completion, else do this extra stuff," but this is the way it is and
one must simply remember it.)

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	There are no foolish questions and no man becomes a fool
	until he has stopped asking questions.
				- Charles P. Steinmetz





From rhunter007 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 14 17:43:40 2003
From: rhunter007 at yahoo.com (Rob Hunter)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
Message-ID: <20030914214340.13608.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com>

Is there an equivalent to Scheme's LET in Python?
 LET creates a new binding in the current
environment.  For example, here's some Scheme
code:

(let ((x 3))
  (let ((f (lambda (arg) (* arg x))))
    (let ((x 4))
      (f 5))))

So, this program, which also tests that Scheme
has correct scoping, returns 15.

And in Python, I can write an equivalent program
that does correctly return 15, but I have to use
what, in Scheme, we call "left-left lambda"--a
way of simulating LET.  Or rather, LET is
syntactic sugar for left-left lambda.

As a simpler example, if I want to write:

(let ((x 3)) (+ x 4))

I can write

((lambda (x) (+ x 4)) 3) in Scheme

or,

(lambda x: x+4)(3) in Python.

I want to know if there's a less syntactically
cumbersome way of getting LET in python.

Thanks!

PS: I'm a newbie, so the answer in fact might be super-easy.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From posman at eval.ca  Mon Sep 15 10:16:17 2003
From: posman at eval.ca (Paul Osman)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:16:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: list of lists
In-Reply-To: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bk4grj$me3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309151015470.31777@kernighan.eval.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Tom wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a list that consists of lists.
> E.g. T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
> Is there a way to address the a specific component in the "inner" list
> directly?
> E.g. right now I want to get the second value of the first list.
> Unfortunately I have to save it to a variable first and then read it.
> a = T[0]
> print a[1]
>
> That kind of sucks, becaus I have to read a lot of values from a lot of
> lists! :-(
> Is there a faster way than my saving it to a "help variable" first?
>
> Thanks folks!!
>
> Regards, Tom
>
>

Hi Tom,

Do you mean this?

>>> T=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]]
>>> T[0][1]
2
>>> print T[0][1]
2
>>> print T[1][1]
5

HTH,

-- 
Paul Osman
paul at eval.ca
http://perl.eval.ca

"Idealists...foolish enough to throw caution
  to the winds...have advanced mankind and have
  enriched the world."
         - Emma Goldman




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Sep  2 11:04:25 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:04:25 -0500
Subject: **kwds behavior?
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0309020652.212c54eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030902150424.GB17554@unpythonic.net>

Changes to locals() do not necessarily affect anything.  
    locals()
        Update and return a dictionary representing the current local
        symbol table. *Warning*: The contents of this dictionary should
        not be modified; changes may not affect the values of local
        variables used by the interpreter.
    -- http://python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-47

You should probably try a different approach to whatever the underlying
task is.

Jeff




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Sep 23 22:01:40 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:01:40 -0400
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <JnydnS4MrZaYZu2iXTWJiw@comcast.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HA5cb.185$kD3.168 at nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
>     for i in xrange(n).iter_backwards():
>         print seqn[i]
>
>     for elem in seqn.iter_backwards():
>         print elem

I would prefer a much shorter name, such as riter for reverse/right
iter.  This goes along with current nomenclature such as rfind, etc.

Terry J. Reedy






From aaron at reportlab.com  Wed Sep  3 12:13:33 2003
From: aaron at reportlab.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 09:13:33 -0700
Subject: gadfly and SQL-LIKE
References: <pan.2003.09.03.09.57.18.748338@fraley.de>
Message-ID: <9a6d7d9d.0309030813.6f6d2363@posting.google.com>

"Patrick W. Fraley" <patrick at fraley.de> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.09.03.09.57.18.748338 at fraley.de>...
> Hi Everybuddy,
> 
> I am having a little problem I can not find a solution for.
> 
> I am trying to use the SQL-LIKE statement in gadfly.  After googling
> around I found out that it is not supported, and that on is supposed to
> use a regular expression.  All great, but there is nowhere a reference
> to be found on how to do this.  No examples, no nothing, just the 
> comment to use regular expressions.
> 

As it currently stands what you need to do is evaluate the query
using gadfly, pull the query out into "normal" python, and then use
a python loop and string operations (such as regular expressions) to
choose the results you want (and throw out the others).

This will work for analogues of simple positive queries such as

select a,b
from t
where c like '%this%'

but may not for fancy queries involving "not in" and so forth -- which
would require a proper implementation of "like" in gadfly.  Sorry.

Probably the "right" way to fix this is to allow the importation of an
arbitrary function into gadfly from python, which wouldn't be too hard
but isn't trivial.
   -- Aaron Watters

ps: my copy of MSAccess doesn't support "like" properly either, fwiw...

===
to do is to be -- Sartre
to be is to do -- Marx
do be do be do -- Sinatra



From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Tue Sep 16 18:09:24 2003
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:09:24 +0100
Subject: App development for Sharp Zaurus PDA using QTopia?
In-Reply-To: <3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <3f6751fc$0$162$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <200309162309.24010.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Tuesday 16 September 2003 7:10 pm, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I see there's a Python binary package available for the Sharp
> Zaurus PDA.  Has anybody deleloped an app for that platform?
> I'm wondering if the resource requirement of Python are a
> problem on that platform.

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/zaurus/download.php

Phil





From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Mon Sep 29 06:00:56 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:00:56 +0100
Subject: Recursion
References: <xjLdb.565$Vb3.450032@news1.news.adelphia.net> <vFNdb.646$Vb3.493747@news1.news.adelphia.net> <sftk41-203.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <c90gnvcchct8edpefc7gsagkmo734suo28@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:06:37 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>        Each time Factorial makes a recursive call to itself (I know, that is 
>redundant phrasing) it creates a new "block" of local variables, the 
>variables in the previous block can not be seen. When a return 
>statement is encountered, the block of locals is deleted, leaving the 
>return value visible to the calling block.      

I can't remember if the tutorial points it out, but for jakle's sake I
should mention that this means that the recursive implementation of
factorial uses a lot more memory than a simple loop implementation
(and is probably a lot slower too).  Factorials are useful for
teaching recursion, but it's not usually the best way to implement a
factorial function [1].  There are some applications that are not so
easy to implement as a loop, though (traversing a tree structure is
usually one of the first that nascent programmers encounter) and then
recursion starts being actually useful.

[1] Some languages depend on recursion much more than Python does, but
they will typically spot cases that can be converted to simple loops
and do that behind the scenes for efficiency.



From richie at entrian.com  Fri Sep 19 12:35:15 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:35:15 +0100
Subject: file position *tell()* works different
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEAIGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <13a533e8.0309190137.2df0cc60@posting.google.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEAIGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <qlbmmvk1in8amgmgc3f426lj4eac7u7uff@4ax.com>

[Peter]
> I wonder if the function *tell()* is not correctly implemented under win32.

[Tim, quoting the standard]
> For a text stream, its file position indicator contains
> unspecified information, usable by the fseek function for returning
> the file position indicator for the stream to its position at the
> time of the ftell call

It still doesn't seem to work as specified:

------------------------------ peter.py ------------------------------

# Open the file in text mode, read a line, and store the position.
fp = file('test_data.txt', 'rt')
line = fp.readline()
storedPosition = fp.tell()
print 'Line: %r, file pointer after read: %d' % (line, storedPosition)

# Read some more and print it.
print 'Read another line from this position: %r' % fp.readline()

# Now seek back and read the same line again.
fp.seek(storedPosition)
print 'Another read from the same position: %r' % fp.readline()

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This prints:

Line: '0123456789\n', file pointer after read: 8
Read another line from this position: '0123456789\n'
Another read from the same position: '89\n'

I'd expect doing readline/tell/readline/seek/readline to read the same
line the second two times.  And however you implement tell and seek, a
tell value of 8 after reading 11 bytes looks pretty weird.

I'd write the same code in C if I had the time, so at least we could be
*sure* we can blame Microsoft.  8-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com>





From colarte at telesat.com.co  Fri Sep 26 05:14:34 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 04:14:34 -0500
Subject: Q: How to Change Pmw.ComboBox width ??
Message-ID: <20030926041434.4943182a.colarte@telesat.com.co>

Hello list, 
I was trying to make a Pmw.ComboBox and while using it i
needed to change its width. 
I tried to configure it's inner components  directly like _listbox.config 
but nothing changes.. 
By default in my computer this combobox width is of 12 (characters)
and since I am showing number of the month i need only 3 characters.
i could use a Pmw.Counter but my boss don't likes it's arrows  :(   ...

Here is some sample code of what i'm doing.

<PYTHON>
import Tkinter, Pmw
class DemoCombo:
    def __init__(self, parent):
        parent.configure(background = 'white')
        arrmes = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12] 
        # Create and pack the dropdown ComboBox.
        self.dropdown = Pmw.ComboBox(parent,label_text = 'Month:',
                 labelpos = 'n',scrolledlist_items = arrmes,
                 scrolledlist_usehullsize = 1,)
#       How do I change pmw combobox width ... 
#       self.dropdown.configure(width =2)       ...Na didn't change widht
#       self.dropdown._list.configure(width =2) ...Na didn't change widht
#       self.dropdown._list._listbox.configure(width =2) ...Na didn't cha
nge widht
        self.dropdown.pack(side = 'top')
        self.dropdown.selectitem(0) # Display the first element

    def fnShow(self):
        print self.dropdown.get()
###################################
# Create demo in root window for testing.
if __name__ == '__main__':
    root = Tkinter.Tk()
    Pmw.initialise(root, fontScheme = 'pmw1')
    widget = DemoCombo(root)
    Frm = Tkinter.Frame(root)
    testBtn = Tkinter.Button(Frm, text = 'Print Month',
    testBtn.pack(side = 'left')
    exitBtn = Tkinter.Button(Frm, text = 'Exit',
                 command = root.destroy)
    exitBtn.pack(side = 'right')
    Frm.pack()
    root.mainloop()

</PYTHON>

Camilo Olarte




From hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de  Tue Sep 16 14:15:28 2003
From: hildegarde_roth at yahoo.de (Hilde Roth)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 11:15:28 -0700
Subject: Indexing list of lists
Message-ID: <95b4b9ac.0309161015.6a0567a7@posting.google.com>

This may have been asked before but I can't find it. If I have
a rectangular list of lists, say, l = [[1,10],[2,20],[3,30]], is 
there a handy syntax for retrieving the ith item of every sublist?
I know about [i[0] for i in l] but I was hoping for something more
like l[;0].

Hilde



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  8 05:54:35 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:54:35 +0200
Subject: More Comments on Python Redesign
In-Reply-To: <005401c375eb$1ea0b9c0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>
References: <005401c375eb$1ea0b9c0$0a00a8c0@JASPER>
Message-ID: <3F5C51DB.6070700@ghaering.de>

Tim Parkin wrote:
> [...] I was merely reacting to some unfounded criticisms of the
> design I'd put forward. If I seem to have been a little over the top
> then I apologise profusely but as you can imagine the reaction to 8
> weeks of hard work that had been put in by quite a few people.
> Comments like the one you have made just make me realise how much
> time we've all wasted. If you are this influential then I shall stop
> working on the redesign and let someone you like carry on.

Thanks for your work on this. I for one *do* like your design prototype. 
And I'm unpleasantly surprised by the tone of the criticism as well.

-- Gerhard




From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Sep 28 16:44:13 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:44:13 GMT
Subject: overriding  built-ins
References: <fbf8d8f2.0309281120.564ec9d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xKHdb.135240$hE5.4609815@news1.tin.it>

dan wrote:

> I really have two related questions.
> 
> 1) Is it possible (without recompiling and changing the core Python
> behavior) to write functions that utilize the same syntax as built-in
> functions?

Yes, but don't confuse functions with statements.  It seems you
are systematically doing just that.

>  IE, can I create a function that does this:
> 
>>>>printCaps "hello"          #note no parentheses
> HELLO

No.  You are thinking of "imitating" print, which is a STATEMENT,
*NOT* a built-in function.

Examples of built-in functions are input, hex, max.  What they have
in common, which sharply distinguishes them from statements: they
use perfectly normal function syntax, and their names are not in any
way reserved.

> 2) Is it possible to do this with the built-in keywords themselves, ie
> override functions such as print?

print is a statement, not a function.  No, there is no way to use
any Python keyword except as Python uses it.


Alex




From nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net  Mon Sep  1 22:15:51 2003
From: nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net (KC)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 22:15:51 -0400
Subject: htmllib.py and parsing malformed HTML
Message-ID: <G1T4b.2227$gJ.1163@bignews3.bellsouth.net>

I have written a parser using htmllib.HTMLParser and it functions fine 
unless the HTML is malformed.  For example, is some instances, the 
provider of the HTML leaves out the <TR> tags but includes the </TR> tags.

Apparently, htmllib and more likely sgmllib do not parse an end tag if a 
corresponding start tag was not found.  Does anyone know a way to "fool" 
the parser into handling the end tag is a start tag was not found?

Thanks,

Kevin




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Sep 23 04:33:07 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:33:07 -0700
Subject: compiling python program
References: <jVRbb.1943$Fq.1235@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <3F700543.350E2074@alcyone.com>

Al wrote:

> I'd like to "hide" my code from being viewed (linux). Is there anyway
> for me
> to compile my program into .pyc and only have the .pyc files
> available, or
> do I always have to have the .py file?

You can just provide the .pyc file to clients.  But it will only be
runnable by the same version of Python you used to compile it.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.
\__/  H.G. Wells



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Sep 12 10:10:52 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 15:10:52 +0100
Subject: why is this failing?
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> <3F60E645.2501B9EE@engcorp.com> <3f60ea13$0$42053$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <87llsu6hij.fsf@pobox.com> <3F611490.23E27E1B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <87ad9am70z.fsf@pobox.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> "John J. Lee" wrote:
> 
> > You wouldn't happen to know how to do this for python-mode?
> 
> The latest versions will do it automatically.

Just to check (I'm using a patched version, so it's a bit of a pain to
switch): the latest versions from the python-mode SF project highlight
builtins like "len" and "list", not just keywords like "print"?


John



From raims at dot.com  Sun Sep  7 11:26:23 2003
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 17:26:23 +0200
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062938172.20708.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87vfs4mxgg.fsf@voodoo.fake>

"James P. Rutledge" <jrut at spamcop.net> writes:

> That validator does checks on webpages and reports on the pages
> "conformance to W3C Recommendations and other standards."

Right, I also suggest you all to use the new version of
the validator which is more "human friendly":

http://validator.w3.org:8001/

Zeldman's post about the new version:
http://zeldman.com/daily/0803a.shtml#validator

-- 
Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
http://loluyede.blogspot.com
rhymes at NOSPAMmyself.com



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep  9 18:40:11 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:40:11 -0400
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at  runtime?
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <vlsd93p4kp004b@news.supernews.com> <3F5E3E3E.9C31763F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <vlslma46fp9qfc@news.supernews.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3F5E3E3E.9C31763F at alcyone.com...
> John Roth wrote:
>
> > As Nick said, you can use the exec statement. You can
> > also use the _import() function.
>
> >>> _import
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name '_import' is not defined
>
> Do you mean __import__?

Yes.

John Roth
>
> -- 
>    Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ But when I reached the finished line / Young black male
> \__/  Ice Cube





From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Sep  4 22:58:53 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:58:53 -0400
Subject: Quickie mail.python.org status
In-Reply-To: <16215.13839.220121.550541@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEEJFLAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Francois Pinard]
> I do not understand why the bad guys would have programmed
> such a deadline within their code, but I still wish this
> deadline story is true!

[Skip]
> The speculation I've read is that the author was paid (or is going to
> be paid) by spammers.  The virus will propagate (and relay spam?)
> until the agreed upon deadline.

The best stuff I've read suggests Sobig.F was a victim of its success:  it
contained a list of IP addresses for 20 compromised machines around the
world (infected by previous Sobig variants).  Infected machines got
programmed to download new software from a random one of those boxes a while
ago, the speculation being that the new software would establish proxy
servers (presumably for use by spammers) on a veritable army of compromised
machines.  OTOH, maybe it's just some sociopathic teen having fun.

Whatever, this final stage was apparently hard to reverse-engineer, but
because the worm caused so much damage so fast, a lot of effort got poured
into it.  As a result, all the machines it was going to contact got pulled
off the net before the mystery downloads triggered.

Note that Sobig.F is already the sixth in a series.  It's usually been the
case that the next in the series got released right after the "expiration
date" of its predecessor.  This planned obsolescence may be its most
intriguing feature -- it certainly fuels some strained speculations!

The worst news for c.l.py readers is that python.org email addresses are
sitting in millions of browser caches, and when the worm spreads itself it
forges a sender email address pulled off the infected machine sending the
worm copy.  That means mail.python.org is on the receiving end of gazillions
of complaints, most machine-generated by idiot email servers that think
they're complaining back to the entity who sent the email.  So as much as by
the worm itself, mail.python.org gets hammered by brain-dead responses from
servers that recognize and block the worm.





From jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com  Fri Sep 26 11:36:03 2003
From: jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:36:03 -0400
Subject: COM: A bold new adventure in pain
Message-ID: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3630@SRV-03>

I am attempting to do something that has apparently never yet been done
before- implement a Crystal Reports User Function Library in Python. I
suppose I should preface this by saying "I just barely understand what I am
doing".

CR has a standard for creating plug-ins that implement functions too
complicated to be done in CR's own internal grammar. When CR starts up, it
looks for COM automation servers starting with CRUFL and makes their methods
available as additional formulas inside CR. 

I have implemented a COM automation object that is registered and can be
called with Dispatch. It does, in fact, accept an input string and return
properly-formatted output.

HOWEVER- My object does not appear the the 'COM Browser' of Activestate's
Pythonwin, and fails to be included in CR. This leads me to believe my
little endeavour has gone off the rails somehow. 

My class definition(sans methods) looks something like this:

class code128tools:
    _public_methods_    = [ 'code128B' ]
    _reg_progid_        = "CRUFLfoo.code128"
    _reg_desc_           = "Crystal Reports UFL Code128 toolkit"
    _reg_clsid_          = "{733D454C-43C1-436F-A0E2-E12AE05E4F07}"   

I think I have failed to define the 'type library'. I welcome any assistance
gratefully.




From lk at digicart.hu  Thu Sep 18 06:14:04 2003
From: lk at digicart.hu (Ladvánszky Károly)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:14:04 GMT
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <43d0f38b7160ca20a68b667f9029df82@news.meganetnews.com>

Try this.

def f(n):
  return n*2

def t(fnc_prm, n):
  return fnc_prm(n)

t(f, 2)

I hope it helps.

K?roly

"Kasper B. Graversen" <kbilsted at it-c.dk> az al?bbiakat ?rta a k?vetkezo
h?r?zenetben: 9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68 at posting.google.com...
> Having played with Smalltalk for the past month, I'm getting used to
> passing code as arguments to methods... how easy is it to do this in
> python? I haven't seen any recent postings on this subject here...
>
> \kasper





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Wed Sep 17 09:57:11 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 06:57:11 -0700
Subject: Graphic python debugger
References: <20030917120146.3c5202e2.max@fr.fm>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309170557.32e9f6d4@posting.google.com>

Hello Maxime,

> I'm looking for a graphic debugger for python on linux like DDD or GVD.
> I tried pdb and pdb-mode for emacs, but I would use a more gvd-like
> debugger.
IDLE (which comes with Python) has a debugger.

HTH.
Miki



From hjwidmaier at web.de  Thu Sep 25 16:10:53 2003
From: hjwidmaier at web.de (Hans-Joachim Widmaier)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:10:53 +0200
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <2ZBbb.100213$hE5.3539928@news1.tin.it> <20030922125024.GE32482@unpythonic.net> <mailman.1064237329.32162.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.25.20.10.53.464483@web.de>

Am Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:26:56 +0200 schrieb Alex Martelli:

> On Monday 22 September 2003 02:50 pm, Jeff Epler wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 12:31:58PM +0000, Alex Martelli wrote:
>> > But, there IS one!  So, hat's wrong with it...?!
>>
>> People seem to love to have literals for things.  Otherwise, they feel
>> that a type is second-class.
> 
> Sure.  I have no problem deeming "mutable strings" (array of bytes)
> to be "second-class" in some vague sense, since their use is so rare
> and the need for literals of that type even rarer; lacking literals for,
> e.g., sets.Set "troubles" me far more;-).
> 
> I do keep daydreaming of some "user-defined semiliteral syntax"
> such as, e.g. <identifier>{<balanced-parentheses tokens>} to
> result in a call to (e.g.) <identifier>.__literal__ with a list (or other
> sequence) of tokens as the argument, returning whatever that
> call returns.  But perhaps it isn't that good an idea after all (it
> does imply the __literal__ classmethod or staticmethod doing
> some sort of runtime compilation and execution of those tokens,
> and opens the doors to the risk of some seriously nonPythonic
> syntax for such "literals-initializers").

[Sorry for replying so late]

After writing what I did, I kept thinking about the issue. I finally
realized the same thing - it wasn't so much the missing datatype, as you
can use array but the missing literals. Having to construct constant
values at runtime doesn't strike me as nice. I'm coming from the embedded
world (hmm, that's not entirely true, as I'm not leaving it), and doing
something efficiently is a big concern there, so doing something at
runtime what you could do upfront is considered a bad thing.

Python doesn't have and cannot be the perfect language for just
everything. But even without "mutable strings", why does it have to be so
handy even for manipulating binaries then?

I'll get over it and give array a try.

Thanks to Jeff for finding the gist of it and Alex for his analysis.
It helps.

Hans-J.



From uj797 at victoria.tc.ca  Fri Sep  5 12:19:40 2003
From: uj797 at victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 08:19:40 -0800
Subject: Basic Aspects of AI
References: <88222545.0309050507.16e720a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f58a98c@news.victoria.tc.ca>

> [...] We are preparing a subject for university... 
> we'd like to teach an introductory course on AI and 
> we are doing the previous research before deciding the 
> contents that give a better view of this exciting topic.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595654371/ -- "AI For You"
(AI4U) is an AI textbook that you might consider using as an AI Lab 
supplement to pre-Singularity textbooks of artificial intelligence.

> It would be really helpful and a lot more interesting if you could
> give me your opinion on which are the basic areas to cover... or,
> in other words, what would you consider essential for the best
> understanding of the subject.

http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/acm.html shows DIY AI steps.

http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/python.html is a Python AI Blog.
 
> I have posted this message in different groups. 
> Basically because I think not everyone may know about everything,
> but maybe about some aspects of AI yes. Really interested also!!

http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26 - Mind-eXchange
is where readers share ideas and support for Open Source AI projects.
 
> So, this is my query. Giving a good understanding of AI and 
> spreading its contents is basic for getting more minds 
> involved in it. Thank you very much in advance.



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sun Sep  7 21:13:26 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 11:13:26 +1000
Subject: CSV Module questions.
References: <mailman.1062970030.25415.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3u17oozex.fsf@echidna.object-craft.com.au>

> I'm trying to understand how to use the "csv" module.  I assume this
> means "comma seperated values" in files.  I quote from the docs...
> 
> 
> http://python.org/doc/current/lib/csv-fmt-params.html "When creating
> reader or writer objects, the programmer can specify a string or a
> subclass of the Dialect class as the dialect parameter"
> 
> Ok, that's fine and dandy, but how do I specify it when I want to
> create a "writer" to write a simple dictionary to a file, and
> specify how it's to be written?
> 
> Example (from the docs):
> 
> # Just some stupid dictionary with key same as value.
> someiterable = {'john d': 'john d', 'fred': 'fred'}
> 
> # make the writer.
> writer = csv.writer(file("some.csv", "w"))
> for row in someiterable:
>     writer.writerow(row)
> 
> Ok,  so this made the file,  but the file contents are thus...
> 
> $ less some.csv
> j,o,h,n, ,d
> f,r,e,d
> 
> which is NOT what I want.  Obviously I have to probably make a
> "Dialect" or something like that.  But how do I do that?  Obviously,
> since Python severely lacks acceptable example code....  why didn't
> they just put in a few examples of how to do this?  I certainly
> cannot figure this out.
> 
> Here is what I want...
> 
> "john d", "john d"
> "fred", "fred"
> 
> How to I write to a file in this way?    Is is possible?

When you write a "row" the writer expects the "row" to be a sequence.
Passing a string as the "row" the writer causes the string to be
handled as a row sequence thereby producing a row of single
characters.

Try this:

>>> import sys, csv
>>> w = csv.writer(sys.stdout)
>>> someiterable = {'john d': 'john d', 'fred': 'fred'}
>>> w.writerows(someiterable.iteritems())
john d,john d
fred,fred

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Sep 25 08:12:44 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:12:44 GMT
Subject: adodbapi / string encoding problem
References: <bkuku2$qm5$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <0ZAcb.118994$hE5.4097227@news1.tin.it>

Achim Domma wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I read a webpage via urllib2. The result of the 'read' call is of type
> 'str'. This string can be written to disc via
> file('out.html','w').write(html). Then I write the string into a Memofield
> in an Access database, using adodbapi. If I read the text back I get a
> unicode string, which can not written to disc via file(...) due to
> encoding problems. How do I have to decode the unicode string to get my
> original data back?

You have to *EN*-code Unicode into string, with the same way the string
had been *DE*-coded to Unicode originally, in order to be sure to get
the same string back; specifically, you have to use the same *codec*
(which stands for COder-DECoder).  I don't know what codec adodbapi is
using (Python's normal default codec is ASCII, which is the "minimum
common denominator" of just about every encoding around -- if adodbapi
hadn't surreptitiously inserted a different codec, it's impossible that
anything would be decoded that might cause problems in encoding it back;-).


Alex




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Fri Sep 12 11:44:15 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:44:15 +1000
Subject: looking for MOP documentation 
In-Reply-To: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> 
References: <oprvdsg7tl5j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk>  
Message-ID: <200309121544.h8CFiFF7024643@localhost.localdomain>

>>> kasper graversen wrote
> hello there.
> 
> I've been searching the web (including the www.python.org :) but in vain of 
> finding recent documentation for the python MOP. I see some information on 
> python 1.5---is this the best and still valid information today?

Erm, what's "MOP" mean? The current python is 2.3, and should probably be
used everywhere possible (1.5 is seriously seriously old)

Anthony
-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Sep  6 18:34:27 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:34:27 -0400
Subject: Newbiequestion about lists and arrays....
References: <9193c0d1.0309061320.a0f430f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dht6b.4445$I_2.686223@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Michael" <holmboe at kth.se> wrote in message
news:9193c0d1.0309061320.a0f430f at posting.google.com...

[snip]

> c=[1]*3
> for y in range(3):
>         for x in range(3):
>
>             c[x]=[1,2,3]
>         p[y]=c
>
> p[1][1][1]=888
> print p[1][1][1]
> print p

[snip]

> Why does:
>
> p[0][1][1]=888
>
> and
>
> p[1][1][1]=888
>
> print out the same result?


Hi.
The problem is with "p[y] = c". This line binds p[y] to whatever c is bound
to.

c
    \
     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]
    /
p[y]

But, then, you've done this for all p[y], 0<=y<3, so

c
    \
     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]
    /            |             |
p[0]       p[1]        p[2]


Now you modify p[1][1][1]:

p[1][1][1] = 888

with this result:

c
    \
     [[1,2,3], [1,888,3], [1,2,3]]
    /            |             |
p[0]       p[1]        p[2]


Thus, p, which is [p[0], p[1], p[2]], looks like

[[[1, 2, 3], [1, 888, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
 [[1, 2, 3], [1, 888, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
 [[1, 2, 3], [1, 888, 3], [1, 2, 3]]]

Which is not what you wanted. To avoid this, you need only change

p[y] = c

to

p[y] = c[:]


c[:] creates a copy of whatever c was bound to. p[y] is then bound to that
copy.

c
    \
     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]   # original

     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]    # copy (c[:])
    /
p[y]

This happens for each y, 0<=y<3, so

c
    \
     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]   # original

     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]    # copy (c[:])
    /
p[0]

     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]    # copy (c[:])
    /
p[1]

     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]    # copy (c[:])
    /
p[2]

Now, when you do

p[1][1][1] = 888

The result is

c
    \
     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]

     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]
    /
p[0]

     [[1,2,3], [1,888,3], [1,2,3]]
    /
p[1]

     [[1,2,3], [1,2,3], [1,2,3]]
    /
p[2]

And, thus, p, which is [p[0], p[1], p[2]], looks like:

[[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
 [[1, 2, 3], [1, 888, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
 [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]]]

Which is what you were looking for.


Or, you could just build 'p' using a list comprehension:

>>> from pprint import pprint as puts
>>> p = [[[1,2,3] for y in range(3)] for x in range(3)]
>>> p[1][1][1] = 888
>>> puts(p)
[[[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
 [[1, 2, 3], [1, 888, 3], [1, 2, 3]],
 [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3]]]

Which is also what you were looking for.

HTH
Sean















From rickard-karlsson at bostream.nu  Wed Sep 24 10:53:20 2003
From: rickard-karlsson at bostream.nu (Rickard Karlsson)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 07:53:20 -0700
Subject: Newbie question, problem with functions
References: <31bd93f0.0309231304.329c9589@posting.google.com> <bkqec8$2hk$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <31bd93f0.0309240653.6203330f@posting.google.com>

> You are in fact passing the result of self.execute(...), i. e. None, instead
> of the method. Do
> 
> b3 = Button(frame, text="pwd", command=lambda: self.execute('pwd'))


Thank you so much, it works fine now.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 16 06:53:51 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:53:51 -0400
Subject: Duck Typing
References: <221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vmdqtm30oq541@news.supernews.com>

<srijit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:221d8dbe.0309160101.4a09f2ad at posting.google.com...
> Hello All,
> I have been seeing this term "duck typing" for quite sometime now. It
> will be nice if one of us can give an example in Python demonstrating
> duck typing and/or link to some Python references.

Why in the world would anyone want to do such a thing? I hadn't
heard the term until you just brought it up, so a quick Google defined
it. AFAICT, it's simply a cute name that's applied to a very common
technique in languages that don't use static typing.

In other words, if you need a file-like object, and someone passes
you an object, your options are either to just use it (and handle the
exceptions if it doesn't really support the proper interface) or use
reflection to see if it has methods with the proper name and number
of parameters, and then be prepared to handle the exceptions when
they don't do what you expect.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

John Roth

>
> Regards,
> Srijit





From peterm at resmed.com.au  Sun Sep 28 19:45:54 2003
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:45:54 +1000
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list@python.org> <EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305@fed1read04>
Message-ID: <ToKdb.9$t44.805@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

I get the same error.

I tried to find documentation to see whether I was using Pylint correctly or
not but there isn't any. There seems to have been an attempt at providing
the possible command line options (python pylint.py --help) but I don't find
them particularly self-explanatory - so without documentation and the
apparent ability to "run out of the box", I guess I'll just have to give
this one a miss.

One nice thing that has happened is it has led me to the Optik package
(Option parsing). There is some nice documentation for this package - the
author(s) of Pylint could take some direction from this package if they
really want people to use Pylint (I have a personal hangup with people who
write good, useful packages and then don't bother documenting them - life is
just too short to read somebody else'e code to get around this deficiency
:-) I get frustrated however when I think there is something that I could be
taking advantage of but something as simple as the lack of 0.5hr of
documentation stops me :-( ).

In the meantime, I'll just have to watch this space :-)

Peter


"Mark Hahn" <mark at hahnca.com> wrote in message
news:EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305 at fed1read04...
>
> > Pylint is a lint-like tool for Python code
>
> Does pylint only work for modules?  When I tried to run it on my code file
> (ezpicmailer.py) , it raised an exception:
>
> No config file found, using default configuration
> <snip>
> Exception: Unable to find module for C:\photoedit\ezpicmailer in
> <snip>
>
> and then it gave a long list of modules in my sys.path.  It seems to
insist
> that the argument I give it be a module in sys.path, not just an arbitrary
> python code file.
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> "Alexandre Fayolle" <Alexandre.Fayolle at logilab.fr> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list at python.org...
> Logilab has released pylint-0.2
>
> What's new?
> -----------
>
> In addition to a large number of bug fixes, this release adds two new
> checkers, for missing encoding declaration, and for FIXME comments. Zope
> support was improved.
>
> About Pylint
> ------------
>
> Pylint is a lint-like tool for Python code. It performs almost all the
> verifications that pychecker does, and additionally can perform some
> stylistic verification and coding standard enforcements. The checked
> code is assigned a mark based on the number and the severity of the
> encountered problems. The previous mark of a given piece of code is
> cached so that you can see if the code quality has improved since the
> last check.
>
> URLs
> ----
>
> Homepage: http://www.logilab.org/projects/pylint
> Download: ftp://ftp.logilab.org/pub/pylint/pylint-0.2.tar.gz
>
>
> --
> Alexandre Fayolle
> LOGILAB, Paris (France).
> http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
> D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations
>
>





From max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it  Thu Sep  4 03:41:41 2003
From: max at ucmg.com.ua.remove.it (Max Ischenko)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:41:41 +0300
Subject: Using Python under ASP
In-Reply-To: <bb536467.0309031055.2fe6a661@posting.google.com>
References: <bj46f2$kk2$1@voodoo.volia.net> <bb536467.0309031055.2fe6a661@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj6q8u$fhc$1@voodoo.volia.net>

> Another thing I've done, rather than just port all the code in a given
> piece, is to find things I can modularize and then move only the
> pieces to Python that I think make sense. For example, I've got a page
> set up that you can dynamically add content to, kind of like a wiki,
> but much more structured. The only part that is in Python is the
> script that edits the HTML file, as file access and manipulation is so
> much easier in Python than in an VBScript. All of the user elements
> are either in straight html pages or in asp with vbscript. I post my
> results to the Python page, update the file, then Response.Redirect to
> the page I'm interested in viewing after the file is updated.

I got a question on this issue.
When modularizing Python code, how does one handle data exchange between 
Python snippets?

I mean, you can't store anything complicated in a Session (for 
instance). Yeah, I can pickle/unpickle any Python object but that feels 
like a kludge. Should I setup some global hash, keyed by SessionID to 
store data there?

-- 
Regards, Max.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep  1 01:56:31 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 07:56:31 +0200
Subject: Update to Python 2.3 on Red Hat Linux 9
References: <8242f4a7.0308282240.4c87f997@posting.google.com> <m3ptimpoaw.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bitni9$icp$0@216.39.172.122> <m3k78tzft2.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bitvlv$69t$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m3he3xkq5s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> >Can you elaborate? What is this "this" you are referring to?
> >And what do you mean by "highly automated"?
> >
> s/this/finding out all the libraries ... and compiling these for 2.3/
> 
> s/highly automated/make -someopts someargs/
> 
> or some setup.py stuff? distutils?

Ah... You should perhaps try to build Python yourself some time and
see how it works. Obtaining all the prerequisites is a gross PITA, as
you have to determine what header files and libraries are needed, and
then determine how your Linux distributor chose to package them - or,
if you are using a trademark Unix (Solaris, HP-UX), you even might
have to install (build, configure) the prerequisites.

Once the prerequisites are present, this is highly automated, and
distutils figures it all out.

> E.g., for 2.2 I recompiled PIL and zlib from sources on windows, and
> if there was a precanned deal, I missed it & re-invented just enough
> to get by ;-/

Windows is a different story entirely. You read and follow the
instructions in PCBuild/README, that's it.

Regards,
Martin



From mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com  Tue Sep 23 17:50:52 2003
From: mwilson at sarcastic-horse.com (Matthew Wilson)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:50:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: string.rstrip
In-Reply-To: <m27k40se2s.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <731fc603.0309221414.78a92789@posting.google.com>
    <m27k40se2s.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <40885.199.169.240.132.1064353852.squirrel@svr1.turboweb.net>

What would be the best way to strip off the last "_asdf" from
"asdf_asdf_asdf"?


>>>>>> "Hank" == Hank  <soundwave56 at yahoo.ca> writes:
>
>     Hank> The last 't' was stripped. Is this fixed or documented
>     Hank> anywhere? it works for other cases, but this one seems to
>     Hank> give me a weird result.
>
> That's because rstrip removes any characters up until the first one
> one that doesn't match.  Since the 't' before the '.' is in the strip
> string '.txt' it is stripped too.  Does this example clarify:
>
>
>    >>> 'John D. Hunter'.rstrip('retD')
>    'John D. Hun'
>
> If you want to remove the extension, the best way is to use splitext
>
>   >>> import os
>   >>> base, ext  = os.path.splitext('test.txt')
>   >>> base
>   'test'
>
> Hope this helps,
> John Hunter
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Sep  6 16:54:44 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:54:44 -0400
Subject: [Jargon] Python glossary - contribute your definitions
In-Reply-To: <16218.13681.159432.907101@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16218.13681.159432.907101@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F5A4994.5@rogers.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
...

>I'm still interested in getting this off the ground, though.  To make it
>more likely that something significant gets done, I created a Wiki to which
>people can add definitions:
>
>    http://manatee.mojam.com/python-glossary
>  
>
...


Seems like something that could be hashed out faster and more reasonably 
as a thread on comp.lang.python where people propose, then vote on words 
(and/or definitions) suitable for a glossary.  For example:

    * bot -- mythical or near-mythical creatures which appear as people
      on the comp.lang.python newsgroup, yet seem to operate at an
      impossible level of knowledge, accuracy and verbosity, often in
      regard to obscure and fascinatingly off-topic ideas.  Common
      examples, Tim-bot, Martelli-bot, F-bot.  Note that, for instance,
      Guido is seldom (if ever) described as a bot, whether because his
      posts tend to remain relatively short and on-topic, or because of
      his relatively succlusion within python-dev.
    * PSU -- Python Secret Underground, apparently mythical covert group
      ultimately responsible for the destiny of Python.  According to
      the myths, tends to cut of posters mid-post (making them disappear
      via a band of thugs travelling around in white vans IIRC).  Tends
      to be the target of most "conspiracy theory" posts, as it tends to
      allow for distancing criticism with humour.
    * superclass -- (1) the ancestor of a class within the inheritance
      hierarchy, a class which is one of the base-classes of a given
      class.  (2) In a more limited sense, the class directly above the
      given class in the inheritence hierarchy, this definition comes
      into play more with Python 2.2's method-resolution-order.  As
      distinct from a meta-class (implementation of the class).
    * dictionary, dict -- (1) a key to value mapping (2) a built-in
      type, currently implemented using a highly optimised hash-table
      implementation
    * generator -- a function or method which produces an interable
      stream of values by temporarily suspending operations when an item
      is discovered and resuming them only when the next value is
      returned. Requires that the method not "return" a value, instead
      the method should "yield" values as they are available. 
      Generators allow for calculating results on an as-needed basis.
    * list comprehension -- declarative syntax for initialising new list
      objects, based on functional-language constructs.  Each list
      comprehension can be expanded into an equivalent (series of)
      for-loops and if statements.
    * mro -- method resolution order, the ordering of classes in which
      Python (2.2 and beyond) attempt to resolve instance-attribute
      lookup in a class hierarchy.
    * python-dev -- (1) the mailing list on which the core Python
      development team discusses and organises Python's future
      development (2) the core Python development team itself.
    * standard library -- collection of code distributed with the core
      Python interpreter and generally assumed to be available in most
      environments
          o "blessed into the standard library" is occasionally used to
            describe Guido's acceptence of a module for inclusion in the
            standard library
    * Python-Labs --
    * PBF --
    * PSF --
    * distutils -- (arguably this is just a module, but it's a critical
      module that people hear about w/out context quite often)
    * namespace -- (focus on Python semantics)

Some of those are obviously too spartan to really help a new user, some 
are possibly not appropriate, some may be considered too basic to be 
included, some may be dead wrong.  Having the general populous review 
and suggest improvements interactively would seem to be as useful an 
editing mechanism as any IMO, and would also allow new users to follow 
along in "word a day" style :) .

Setting out a few ground-rules:

    * Cover humour, don't make it (i.e. the PSU mythos has had dozens of
      posts along the years, creating entirely new myths doesn't help,
      people want to know what's being talked about, not "how clever we
      can be")
    * Use neutral terminology as much as possible, imagine you were
      writing for the Jargon file, not a usenet post
    * Provide enough information that a google search will lead the
      interested to the information they need, exhaustive
      (encyclopeadic) entries aren't the goal of a glossary.
    * Skip has final say in resolving any Jargon issues, as the
      python-dev person in charge of the glossary check-in, we're all
      just suggesting things to him, in the end.
    * Focus on terms which are used (commonly) within the Python
      community, but are not generally used by tech folks.  Some
      duplication of Jargon-file elements may be required to cover
      Python-specific sub-specialisations, or to cover very common
      Python idioms, but the Jargon file already covers a lot of tech
      jargon.
    * New users in particular, feel free to pipe up with a word you'd
      like defined.
    * Prefix all subject-lines with [Jargon]

might make the process go a little more smoothly too.

Just my 2c,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 11:58:43 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:58:43 +0100
Subject: Saving Numeric arrays to file?
References: <bl2ktf$8lq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <bl2ov9$78mdr$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de> <bl43pu$216$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <GLhdb.178998$R32.5726980@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bl4bri$dh6$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:GLhdb.178998$R32.5726980 at news2.tin.it...
> Duncan Smith wrote:
>    ...
> > What I
> > *would* like is a reasonably generic (and not terribly inefficient)
> > solution for
> > storing strings that contain escape characters in text files.  Cheers.
>
> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "contain escape characters" in this
> context.  But maybe the quoted-printable coding is what you're looking
> for?  See module quopri in the standard Python library.
>
>
> Alex
>

Thanks Alex,
                   I was writing to file strings such as
'\n\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00' and then trying to retrieve them via
readline().  It turns out that querying a MySQL table is easily quick enough
for my purposes (the bottlenecks are elsewhere).  But I'll certainly check
out quopri (seeing as I wasn't aware of it).  Thanks again.

Duncan





From glingl at aon.at  Wed Sep 17 17:05:55 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:05:55 +0200
Subject: None, False, True
In-Reply-To: <3F68CB67.5000409@aon.at>
References: <0KI9b.12967$x21.4828@twister.southeast.rr.com> <3F68CB67.5000409@aon.at>
Message-ID: <3F68CCB3.2080609@aon.at>

Gregor Lingl schrieb:

....

> 
> Interestingly this doesn't occur in IDLE:
> 
> Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on 
> win32
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
> ...
> IDLE 1.0
>  >>> None = 3
> SyntaxError: assignment to None (<pyshell#0>, line 1)
>  >>> print None
> None

remark:

If you run the script:

None = 3
print None


within IDLE, it does NOT issue a syntax error,
but prints 3 (i. e. it works like the plain python interpreter)

Gregor




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Sep  7 13:50:42 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 13:50:42 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y/2W/kKkXcZZ092yn@gnosis.cx>         

"Tim Parkin" <tim.parkin at pollenationinternet.com> wrote previously:
|text resizing here is a sample of +1 text size.
|http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2larger.html
|http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-interior-2larger.html

Yeah... this moves it from truly awful to merely bad.  So that's a good
step.  Even so, the lines of text are squashed together vertically in an
awkward way that makes reading difficult.  I don't even really know how
that effect was achieved (or in what browser)... is there a CSS
attribute for "really small vertical spacing"?

In my experience, good pages remain good even in the complete absence of
their CSS stylesheet.  Well, and CERTAINLY good pages do not embed
ad-hoc <font> tags all over them, but I don't think the redesign demo
did that.  While I'm only guessing, this is a page that would fare
poorly with the CSS dropped, and with user-specified fonts and colors
specfied.

The problem is that it is WAY over-designed.  It looks like something
you'd design for a magazine, not for the web, with many browsers
possible.  Parkins, or whoever, has a certain browser and screen size,
and probably took out a ruler to align everything properly on that
unique combination.  But on my screen, there is a gaping wasted space on
the right edge.  Why not put the "news and announcements" over on the
right edge, using as much space as is available, instead of squashing
things into fixed sized boxes?  "Features" could then flexibly fill the
middle section, scrolling down as far as is needed for the window size
and font of a reader.

That said, I -DO- like the look of the left navigation buttons.  They
could use more contrast still, but the light 3-D effect is good, and the
subsections below an "opened" button is visually clear.  The roundish,
almost OpenLook-like, pane/box frames are fine.  I kinda like the
fingerprint icon, or whatever that is meant to be (two snakes?).  And
having a search tool at top seems useful.  It's just hard to get past
the font disaster (and the goofy, oversized, photos).

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From john at rygannon.com  Thu Sep 18 18:08:11 2003
From: john at rygannon.com (John Dean)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:08:11 GMT
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <3y7ab.1043$Od.78860@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <3f697584$0$10966$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <87n0d26yv6.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3f6a2ce0$0$10967$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>

Thank you John
I don't see any point in making lame excuses, since most people are smart
enough to see through rubbish. After all, we are only human and we should
honest enough to admit to our failings

-- 
Best Regards
John



From phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  5 22:16:49 2003
From: phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com (Phil Schmidt)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 19:16:49 -0700
Subject: I need a little help with Tkinter Entry widget
References: <221e7b06.0309051235.2d5b4868@posting.google.com> <bjb1cp$cer$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <221e7b06.0309051816.4b514614@posting.google.com>

Oh! Seems obvious when you say it! I've been using the Fredrik Lundh
documentation, and saw nothing about those. Perhaps I should follow
the recommendations of other posters and get that book about
Tkinter...

Thanks,
Phil



From sdementen at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 12 07:19:13 2003
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 04:19:13 -0700
Subject: formatting number in the CSV module
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0309120319.13bc9062@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I need to output numbers to a csv file and use the new csv module in
python2.3:

"
import csv
data = [[ 0.321524523,0.5243523],[0.54635643,0.62776]]
w = csv.writer(file("out.csv","w"))
w.writerows(data)
"

However, I would like to format the number so that only the first 2
decimals are stored in the csv file.

Is it possible to specify a formatting command like "%.2f" to the csv
writer ?

Seb

ps: data in the real application is a BIG numeric array...



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 21:10:05 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:10:05 +0100
Subject: "for" with "else"?
References: <bkuqmu$ajv$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> <bkuru4$532$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <vn61legdn9jf56@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <2c9knv86m1il4ajng85655dm7u5j5b992i@4ax.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:15:51 -0400, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>Frankly, I'd like to see special case syntax for an empty
>sequence, but it's not that hard to handle now.

That is what the 'else' suggests to me - particularly with 'while'
loops. I don't think I've ever needed the existing 'else', but I could
have used a loop-body-not-executed-at-all special case on a number of
occasions

I can see the use an application of 'else', of course - if you use
'break' to end a loop you may need different cleanup and therefore
need to skip the standard cleanup. But if this is an issue I'm
probably already using raise rather than break because it's most
likely an error rather than a normal case.

My guess is that it probably made a lot more sense before exceptions
were added to Python.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Sep 30 07:33:31 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:33:31 +0200
Subject: append special chars with "\"
In-Reply-To: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za>
References: <3f793544$0$64721@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <20030930113331.GA3079@nl.linux.org>

tertius wrote:
> Is there a better way to append certain chars in a string with a 
> backslash that the example below?
> 
> chr = "#$%^&_{}"          # special chars to look out for
> str = "123 45^ & 00 0_"   # string to convert
> n = ""                    # init new string
> for i in str:
>     if i in chr:          # if special character in str
>         n+='\\'           # append it with a backslash
>     n+=i
> print "old:",str
> print "new:",n

Another possibility:

for c in chr:
 str = str.replace(c, r"\c")

Untested, however, but something like this should work.

Gerrit.

-- 
1. If any one ensnare another, putting a ban upon him, but he can not
prove it, then he that ensnared him shall be put to death.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 12 09:09:02 2003
From: ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com (Ubaidullah Nubar)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 06:09:02 -0700
Subject: RAD with Python
Message-ID: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com>

Hi,

How well is Python suited for developing database based applications?
I am new to Python so please bear with me if some of the questions are
too simple. I specifically have the following questions:

1. Is there an example of a simple data-entry application written in
Python using a GUI interface? Something like a simple address book app
with a listbox displaying all addresses with the ability to
add/modify/delete.

2. There seem to be a number of GUI frameworks available? Which one is
good for use on Windows and Linux?

3. Can Python apps be compiled to an exe? Can the resulting executable
be distributed commercially?

4. What types of applications are not suitable to be written in
Python?

I have good knowledge of many languages including C++, Assembler,
Java, etc. My preferred development tool is Clarion currently. If
anybody with a Clarion background can share their experience with
Python, that will be very helpful.

Appreciate your answers...

Thanks & Regards,
Ubaidullah Nubar.



From mpeuser at web.de  Fri Sep  5 04:24:41 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:24:41 +0200
Subject: newbie question about dictionnary ?
References: <3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <bj9h99$btm$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"Sophie All?on" <alleon at club-internet.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3f582f90$0$20952$7a628cd7 at news.club-internet.fr...


> for doing this I thought the dictionary was excellent but the key is a
> string while I want it
> to be the 2 points forming the edge ? How to do it ?
>

Luckily you are wrong! Keys can be numbers, strings, AND tuples of immutable
data!!!

Example:

a="first"
b=2
x={}
x[(a,b)]="hi"
print x

However it will not work when assigning objects or lists to a or b.

So you can use it when you store your objects in a list and refer to them by
indexes. This is old fashioned stuff but may be really efficient.

Kindly
Michael P






From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep  3 13:25:41 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:25:41 -0600
Subject: Invisible function attributes
In-Reply-To: <Z6ucnedZ-vGJi8uiXTWJhw@comcast.com>
References: <51809ae4.0309030715.7706cadb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030903112137.030177c8@66.28.54.253>

Of course the inevitable question is why do you want to do this? Consider 
creating a class instead (with a __call__ method if you want to call the 
instance as a function).

class Foo:
   a = 1 # pre-initialized property
   def __call__(self):
     print self.a

foo = Foo()
foo()
# prints 1

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Sep 30 03:01:12 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:01:12 +1200
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
In-Reply-To: <s4pbnv4gkl84hs1bqcvjjuuk3dv6iiod55@4ax.com>
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <DYecnbE8ncWnXOiiU-KYvA@comcast.com> <s4pbnv4gkl84hs1bqcvjjuuk3dv6iiod55@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <blb73b$a8fai$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne wrote:
> The idea that single slices *should* behave in a different way to
> extended slices seem bizarre to me - the kind of thing that arises out
> of historic issues rather than out of principle.

And it is indeed a historic issue.

If you want the gory details:

Once upon a time, there was no such thing as a slice object.
Indexing and slicing were treated as completely separate
things, and handled by separate methods at the C level:

    seq[x]   --> the C-level equivalent of __getitem__(self, x)
    seq[x:y] --> the C-level equivalent of __getslice__(self, x, y)

(There were no 3-element slices, either.)

Moreover, the arguments to the C-level __getslice__ method
*had* to be integers, and the interpreter performed the convenience
of interpreting negative indices for you before calling it.

Then Numeric came along, and people wanted to be able to
slice multi-dimensional arrays. So the slice object was
invented, and the parser and interpreter taught to create
them when encountering slice notation, and feed tuples of
them to __getitem__.

But, for backwards compatibility, the special case of a
single 2-element had to be handled specially. If the object
being sliced had (at the C level) a __getslice__ method,
it would be used. If it didn't, a slice object would be
created and passed to __getitem__.

This was fine for C objects, such as Numeric arrays,
which can choose to not provide a __getslice__ method.
But due to the way old-style classes are implemented,
they *always* have a __getslice__ method at the C level,
regardless of whether they have one at the Python level.
So it's impossible to write an old-style Python class that
doesn't get its single two-element slices mangled.

Fortunately, new-style classes are much more like C
objects, and they don't suffer from this problem.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Sep  4 08:51:15 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:51:15 -0500
Subject: Arguments of function as out
In-Reply-To: <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com> <wzoey20yy4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl> <bj6l5v$3qg$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20030904125110.GC14960@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 08:12:57AM +0200, Birgit Rahm wrote:
> 
> Thank you,
> I've already read this, but I hoped, there is a way to get these out
> parameters beside this.
> Because I cant redesign the function on the server side. So I have only the
> possibility to change the client side code, which calls this function.
> It seems there is no way in python to use it and get the new out paramter
> value after finishing the function.
> Birgit

I found this result when searching for 'omniorbpy "out parameter"':
    http://www.omniorb-support.com/pipermail/omniorb-list/2000-April/015244.html
I don't know for certain that this is the way omniorbpy behaves today,
but it is a very pythonic way to work.

| From: Duncan Grisby <dgrisby at uk dot research dot att dot com>
| Subject: [omniORB] omniORBpy out parameter passing issue
|
[...]
| Out arguments in the Python mapping appear as extra return values in a
| tuple. So, if you have IDL
| 
| interface I {
|   long op(in string a, out short b, inout double c);
| };
| 
| Then to call op, you do
| 
|   (result, b, c) = i.op(a, c)
| 
| I recommend that you read the mapping specification, which you can
| download from
| 
|   http://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/doc?ptc/00-01-12
| 
| Cheers,
| 
| Duncan.

Jeff




From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Sep  1 20:18:12 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 00:18:12 GMT
Subject: Advice to a Junior in High School?
References: <Ivw2b.1305$Ce2.314@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com> <3d6c6fc3.0308261246.32db39d5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.01.20.18.27.3901@jerf.org>

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:46:27 -0700, Stan Graves wrote:
> "Howard Nease" <hnease at midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
>> I
>> love the subject, and I've wanted to be a computer scientist ever since
>> I was 12 years old.

(Unrelated to my reason for posting: You don't *need* to leave Computer
Science, it's not going anywhere. People choose to become professional
musicians, too, even though almost nobody can even make a living at it.
You can be a Computer Scientist, you just may not make a lot of money.
C'est la vie; for me, I still have to be a Computer Scientist, I love it
too much to quit.)

> Study literature - I have yet to see a single computer scientist who can
> manipulate symbols as well as Shakespeare.

class Rose:
	"A Rose is a Rose is a Rose."""
	def sweetness(self):
		return "very"

rose = Rose()
otherName = rose
assert rose.sweetness() == otherName.sweetness()

Would you *notice* if a computer scientist matched Shakespeare?

How can you compare the two at all?

Statements like that sound all profound but are really the exact opposite;
meaningless.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep  4 15:56:16 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:56:16 +0200
Subject: PYTHONPATH x *.pth???
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062699057.14307.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062699057.14307.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bj85co$5r7$02$2@news.t-online.com>

Carlos Moreira wrote:

> I want to install Python third packages in a
> non-default directory.
> What?s the better way?
> 
>    - PYTHONPATH variable?
>    - *.pth files in site-packages?

It depends on your requirements. For example:

- Why is it that you don't want to install the
   packages in the default directory? Then, considering
   that reason, why would it be acceptable to install
   a .pth file there?

- Is it acceptable that users of your application set
   PYTHONPATH?

- Do you have to consider multiple installations of Python

And so on.

You should also consider a third alternative:

    - Extend sys.path explicitly in the application,
      before importing the third package.

> I know that the two methos above are equivalents. But
> what method will be keep in future Python releases
> (for example)?

Both with be kept indefinitely.

Regards,
Martin




From kbilsted at it-c.dk  Thu Sep 18 06:08:52 2003
From: kbilsted at it-c.dk (Kasper B. Graversen)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 03:08:52 -0700
Subject: Closures in python
Message-ID: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com>

Having played with Smalltalk for the past month, I'm getting used to
passing code as arguments to methods... how easy is it to do this in
python? I haven't seen any recent postings on this subject here...

\kasper



From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 16 18:30:03 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:30:03 GMT
Subject: why pass statement?
References: <iRI9b.12996$x21.4462@twister.southeast.rr.com> <mailman.1063743501.23038.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <L9M9b.13889$x21.5750@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Hans Nowak" <hans at zephyrfalcon.org> wrote in message news:mailman.1063743501.23038.python-list at python.org...
> 'pass' is a no-op statement that, according to the tutorial, is used when a
> statement is required syntactically but the program requires no action.

I know. I just state that there is NO need for it. Just define in __builtins__
pass = None and that's it.

BTW Algol-68 used 'skip' for both purposes (no action and no data).


> Your code, using None, has the same effect.  However, there's a slight
> difference in the bytecode that is generated:
>
>  >>> def f(): pass
> ...
>  >>> def g(): None
> ...
>  >>> import dis
>  >>> dis.dis(f)
>    1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>                3 RETURN_VALUE
>  >>> dis.dis(g)
>    1           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (None)
>                3 POP_TOP
>                4 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>                7 RETURN_VALUE
>
> This is probably irrelevant, but it wouldn't be correct to say that using pass
> is exactly the same as using None.
>
> HTH,
>
> -- 
> Hans (hans at zephyrfalcon.org)
> http://zephyrfalcon.org/


That's just a question of optimization.

And thank you for showing me how to dig to the code!

M-a-S





From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 03:17:51 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:17:51 +0200
Subject: just curious
References: <rnd6b.904924$ro6.18233500@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <bjc1o5$gma$00$1@news.t-online.com>

"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:rnd6b.904924$ro6.18233500 at news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
> I'm new to Python, and I've noticed the following:


(1) Python has a quite strict "call by value" similar to C. This means - as
in C) you can use formal parameters as if they were local variables. (And
there are some useful tricks with that..)
So A = A + B will have no outside impact.

(2) A += B for lists is a shortcut for
     A.extend(B)
which means that it changes something A is bound to (or "points to" as you
would say in C). This is somewhat awkward because it sometimes works counter
intuitive as in your case. Just keep in mind: A+=B is *not*  A=A+B but
behaves as if in most cases.... ;-)

Kindly
Michael P





>
> >>> def f(a,b):
>  a+=b
> >>> def g(a,b):
>  a=a+b
> >>> p=[1,2,3]
> >>> q=[4,5,6]
> >>> r=[7,8,9]
> >>> s=[10,11,12]
> >>> f(p,q)
> >>> p
> [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
> >>> g(r,s)
> >>> r
> [7, 8, 9]
>
> Any deep reason for this, or "just because"? TIA.
>
> Peace,
> EJ
>
>





From rolfedh at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 26 16:31:23 2003
From: rolfedh at hotmail.com (Rolfe)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 13:31:23 -0700
Subject: Successful installation of mod_python on Apache on Win2k?
References: <cfd500a9.0309251610.3427181f@posting.google.com> <bl13fs$iug$1@swifty.westend.com>
Message-ID: <cfd500a9.0309261231.de09c7b@posting.google.com>

> From: Rolfe Dlugy-Hegwer [mailto:RDlugyHegwer at symmetricom dot com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 7:53 PM
> To: 'sholden at holdenweb dot com'
> Subject: mod_python on Win2k question
>
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I saw your thread on comp.lang.python: "I'm interested in installing
> mod_python in two environments:1. Wind2000/Apache2"
>
> Any joy getting mod_python to run on Win2k?
>
Oh, yes. To quote Stanley Unwin (of whom you've probably never heard)
"Deep joy in the fundimole".

> I 1)downloaded fresh versions of apache and mod python, 2)made default
> installations, 3)followed additional configuration
> instructions for mod
> python, 4) followed the tests recommended by mod_python
> documentation, 5)

OK, well I [...] just downloaded the installer. I
had Python 2.2 installed, and I decided not to push the envelope by
recompiling for 2.3 (which I also had installed). I also chose the
somewhat older 3.0 mod_python, and then bolted the session and cookie
stuff on from the 3.1 alpha mod_python, which seems to work after a bit
of grotesque hacking an d one bug removal.

> consulted the mod_python FAQ
> and I can't get it to work. My browser displays the .py file
> as text instead
> of running it as a script.
>
It's probably the directory characteristics that need to change. If you
plan to use the publisher interface (probably about the most general
thing to do), you need to bear two things in mind:

1. Mod_python doesn't play well in script-aliased directories, so don't
try using your cgi-bin directory for mod_python scripts.

2. You'll need an .htaccess file that reads something like [ferkles in
/Inetpub/wwwroot/modpython ...] this:

DirectoryIndex index.py
AddHandler python-program .py
PythonHandler mod_python.publisher
PythonDebug On

Actually you don't need the DirectoryIndex line, and obviously you can
set up equivalent <Directory> lines in httpd.conf instread if you want.

> I'm going find someone who has succeeded and will write up
> instructions for
> the mod_python FAQ and for comp.lang.python.
>
I'm sure that would be very useful. Let me know if this has helped! [...] ;-)

regards
--
Steve Holden                                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Interview with GvR August 14, 2003       http://www.onlamp.com/python/



From knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk  Fri Sep  5 16:20:23 2003
From: knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk (Martin Christensen)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:20:23 +0200
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bj8f4v$8kl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
 <87brtzu5ak.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bjabc7$mbm$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
 <87znhjw4r1.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bjamuh$hie$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87smnbvvg8.fsf@gvdnet.dk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Smith <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
Duncan> Yes, messrs. Kjaerulff and Olesen.

Then I'm afraid that we were talking about different people, and these
people are probably less likely to run about getting wet on random
Fridays. :-) They're swell people, though, or at least Kristian is, in
my experience (only know Uffe by sight, hardly even voice). Oh well,
it was still amusing despite the Fates not playing _that_ much with
us.

Martin

- -- 
Homepage:       http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using Mailcrypt+GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org>

iEYEARECAAYFAj9Y8AcACgkQYu1fMmOQldWpSACdEn8FUR9Oh3CHya7SaEFpY+y5
CTQAoMd5w0JKmxiT8ULcv+RnD+lBQYSk
=+uoP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Sep 10 07:38:45 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:38:45 -0400
Subject: OT: Mailman misfeature. was: Re: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <bjml1l$fd9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vlu39qgajoa1f5@news.supernews.com>

"Peter Otten" <__peter__ at web.de> wrote in message
news:bjml1l$fd9$00$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Marco Herrn wrote:
>
> > 1. How to do the import? I didn't find a way to give a string to the
> >    import statement.
> >
> > 2. How to write such code to instantiate?
>
> Off topic: This thread like some others is spread over a few toplevel
> entries in my newsreader (KNode 0.7.2). Is this a bug?

It's not a bug, it's a misfeature. Articles that are gated from
the mailing list to the newsgroup have improperly truncated
reference lists, so newsreaders can't put them together properly.

If you look at the headers for a message posted via news, you'll
find something like:

References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list at python.org>
<3F5ECDE2.40206 at mxm.dk> <3F5ECEF7.9080409 at mxm.dk>

However, if you look at the headers for a message gated
from the Python mailing list, you'll find:

References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list at python.org>

Which happens to be the ID of the first message in the tree, (which was,
coincidentally, gated from the mailing list.) regardless of how far down
in the tree it happens to be.

Then if, for some reason, you don't have the message at the top
of the tree, you get this scatter effect.

I have no idea whether this is a problem with Mailman, the
Mail RFCs, or the mail to news gateway.

HTH

John Roth





From max at alcyone.com  Thu Sep 11 20:34:24 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:34:24 -0700
Subject: why is this failing?
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> <3F60E645.2501B9EE@engcorp.com> <3f60ea13$0$42053$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <87llsu6hij.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F611490.23E27E1B@alcyone.com>

"John J. Lee" wrote:

> You wouldn't happen to know how to do this for python-mode?

The latest versions will do it automatically.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ What a crime to waste [youth] on children.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Sep  7 13:36:26 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 19:36:26 +0200
Subject: in Ram database?
In-Reply-To: <racllvoqohn84k1fb4o1iaavbpud478h8g@4ax.com>
References: <v03110742bb7da1ba2767@[192.168.0.2]>
	<mailman.1062819310.17917.python-list@python.org>
	<racllvoqohn84k1fb4o1iaavbpud478h8g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F5B6C9A.1060907@ghaering.de>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> William Trenker <wtrenker at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>Here is a simple example:
>>[example of how NOT to use the DB-API]
> This fails for me. 

No surprise.

> There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in sqlite.py
> regarding the transaction state. 

No.

> The Connection object maintains a flag
> called inTransaction that doesn't get cleared when you call "commit"
> through the Cursor, 

Yeah, because that's not the way the Python DB-API is to be used. You're 
supposed to use the methods .commit() and .rollback() on the cursor 
object for transaction management.

> so the script fails during termination because the
> Connection tries to rollback what IT thinks is an open transaction.
> 
> So, I tried changing it to use conn.commit() instead of
> cursor.execute("commit"), but that causes a new problem: the
> cursor.execute("begin transaction") fails beause cursor.execute
> automatically opens a new transaction before sending the SQL to the engine,
> and nested transactions aren't allowed.

Yeah, maybe you should consider reading the DB-API spec or the PySQLite 
docs? See above for *NOT* issuing BEGIN/ROLLBACK/COMMIT yourself through 
.execute(), unless you know exactly what you're doing, which you are 
apparently not ;)

If you know exactly what you're doing, you can use the parameter 
autocommit=1 (not =0, like I wrote in my other response) in the 
.connect() call.

> Deleting the call to "begin transaction" solves that problem, because the
> first "execute" in the loop causes a transaction to be opened
> automatically.

PySQLite has 7 tests in its test suite for transaction handling. Now 
hacking the PySQLite source code seems like a smart idea to make a 
b0rken example code work :-/

> Hmmm; this may be an opportunity for me to actually contribute to pysqlite,
> which is one of the more useful things I've come across in Python.

I'd be happy to help you get a better understanding. But I'm currently 
/a little bit/ ?nerv? because of the same old b. s. "solutions" for some 
problems being repeatedly posted on c.l.py. So people please remember:

1) the DB-API module handles transactions just fine for you, there is NO 
need to mess around with this yourself. Use .commit() or .rollback() on 
the connection object and everybody will be happy. Especially me ;)

2) the DB-API module quotes parameters just fine for you, there is NO 
need to mess around with this yourself. Just use a tuple of the 
parameters for the second parameter of the .execute() call.

-- Gerhard




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Sep  4 15:47:09 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:47:09 +0200
Subject: Comparing objects - is there a maximum object?
In-Reply-To: <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755@posting.google.com>
References: <7bdbb1a6.0309041124.6801b755@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj84rl$j2c$07$4@news.t-online.com>

Chris Brew wrote:

> so  (unless this has been superseded) it doesn't seem that there is
> such an object. Any suggestions? 

The easiest way to produce a maximum object is

class Max:
   def __cmp__(self, other):
     return 1
maximum = Max()

HTH,
Martin




From guy.flowers at Machineworks.com  Mon Sep 15 11:15:49 2003
From: guy.flowers at Machineworks.com (Guy)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 08:15:49 -0700
Subject: Processes.
Message-ID: <f3ff61d9.0309150715.26efddf5@posting.google.com>

Hi

I've done some projects in python for my work which invole some test
scripts etc. All quite basic stuff, I find python a good language to
work in but have come up against a brick wall. I'm been searching
google for hours about processes pids etc. My problem is as follows
the main problem code can be seen below :

server = uc_server(HOST_str, PORT_num)
while 1:
    asyncore.poll(SERVER_TIMEOUT)

    # Only pops queue when the current item is blank.
    if (server.current_queue_item == [0,"","",["",0],["",""]]):
        # Pops a queue item if there are any queue items to get.
        Temp_Current_Item = MainQueue.Pop()
        if (Temp_Current_Item != N):
            server.current_queue_item = Temp_Current_Item
    
        Execute_Command_str =
ServerSupport.CreateCommand(Temp_Current_Item)
    
        # Only executes if on a win32 platform.
        if (sys.platform == "win32")and(Execute_Command_str != N):
            output, input = popen2("cmd.exe")
            input.write(Execute_Command_str+"\n")
            input.write("exit\n")
            
            while 1:
                text = output.readline()
                if text:
                    print text                    
                else:
                    # Sets the current queue item to blank.
                    server.current_queue_item =
[0,"","",["",0],["",""]]
                    break

What I want to have is a server which is multi platform win32,
unix(lots of differnt sorts and may be mac later but forget mac for
now.) that people can telnet onto leave a job, and then the server
runs the jobs one at a time.
What I have is a server that people can telnet on to leave a job, the
server will execute it and keep executing it until it is done. I
thought that maybe the poll thing would sort this out by switching
from the main body of the script to the server part of the script, but
it didn't. The way that I use popen2 is my fav. way of executing
processes as I can catcher all output. What would be really good if I
could execute commands or scripts by using child processes and
searching for there pids this way I would know whats running on the
box at any one time.
There's loads about pids processes on google but it mainly in unix, I
mainly want it in win32 which there is hardly anything about.

Please Please Help

TIA
TTFN
Guy



From alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it  Thu Sep 25 12:03:39 2003
From: alberto.mantovaniNOSPAM at bologna.marelli.it (Alberto Mantovani)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:03:39 GMT
Subject: pythonwin from dos
Message-ID: <3f731176.33482654@powernews.libero.it>

hi,
how is it possible to run a python script  in the pythonwin
environment from dos command line?
If I use the command "/run scriptname.py" and the pythonwin is already
opened I get error, so someone can help me?

thanks
Alberto 



From hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl  Tue Sep 16 09:20:26 2003
From: hat at se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:20:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: from clipper move to python
References: <mailman.1063605800.2328.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbme3go.err.hat@se-126.se.wtb.tue.nl>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:00:57 +0700, ads <ads at chead.org> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm starting learning python about 2 weeks, and still have
> difficulties to create GUI based application because I never learn
> about classes and other OOP things. Does anyone knows how to
> create text console application like clipper using python.

I don't know what clipper looks like, but you may want to have a look at
curses, which I believe is also available with a Python interface (no
doubt called pycurses or something in that direction).


Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.



From ialbert at mailblocks.com  Mon Sep  1 20:50:31 2003
From: ialbert at mailblocks.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 20:50:31 -0400
Subject: artificial intelligence
In-Reply-To: <bivjim$u9t$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <mailman.1062394443.2068.python-list@python.org> <bivjim$u9t$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <K66cnf-bsuHEdM6iU-KYvg@giganews.com>

Duncan Smith wrote:

> What do Amazon use?  My guess (unless it's something really naive) would be
> association rules.

In my previous job I worked for a research group studying recommender 
systems. We have our own, called MovieLens

http://www.movielens.org

among others we use a so called item-item recommender.
We compute similarities between items then look at a
given basket and based on it we choose to recommend the most
similar items no yet selected. The good thing about this method
is that item similarities are more static they don't need
to be recomputed as often.

Istvan.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Sep 26 16:17:33 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:17:33 +0200
Subject: pilconvert script disappeared ?
References: <Xns94017FEE09C9Bstefninalussinanorg@213.228.0.32>
Message-ID: <bl26t2$4ba$1@sea.gmane.org>

St?phane Ninin wrote:

> I have just installed python 2.3 with many other libs, including PIL,
> (from http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/),
> version 1.1.4 for Python 2.3b1.
>
> Am I dreaming or has the script pilconvert.py disappeared from the free PIL
> distribution ?
>
> Can I find it somewhere else ?

see:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2003-August/002386.html

</F>







From pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com  Mon Sep  1 16:36:32 2003
From: pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com (Paul D. Fernhout)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:36:32 -0400
Subject: Object Database (ODBMS) for Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1062442562.22074.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1062442562.22074.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f53ad7e_5@corp.newsgroups.com>

Niki-

Thanks for the pointer to e4graph. I found more info about it here:
   http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm

There are several similarities -- and conceptually the ideas are very 
related (to the same extent the ER model is related to graphs).

A few comments on part of their blurb on that page:

"The e4Graph library allows you to model any kind of relationship 
between data that can be represented by a directed graph, including 
circular graphs of connections between data items. e4Graph is unique in 
that it allows these circular relationships to be represented directly 
rather than implicitly or through meta-data, as is necessitated by other 
approaches such as relational databases. A bi-directional link between 
two data items can be represented by two directed connections between 
those data items."

The Pointrel Data Repository System allows circular relationships. All 
links in the Pointrel System are bi-directional (well, sort of quad 
directional in a way).

Differences include:
* The Pointrel System is in pure Python (e4graph is in C++ and uses a 
C++ database).
* The Pointrel System suports the notion of "spaces" which could be seen 
as somewhat like "graphs" -- except query operations can span spaces (or 
even multiple archives for that matter).
* The Pointrel System focuses more on complete history (e.g. tracking 
many versions of a linked node as it were in the e4graph metaphor).

These comments are all off the top of my head after persuing the e4graph 
site for a few minutes; perhaps after looking more at e4graph I may 
realize some of these comments are incorrect or there may other 
important differences or similarities.

Thanks again for pointing e4graph out.

In general, the Pointrel System bears a resemblance to any system that 
implements something related to Peter Chen's "Entity Relational" (ER) 
model.
   http://bit.csc.lsu.edu/~chen/display.html
   http://www.cs.sfu.ca/CC/354/zaiane/material/notes/Chapter2/node1.html
The Pointrel System is not quite the same as pure ER in some 
implementation details (e.g. it embeds the notion of a space, it focuses 
on triads not arbitrary relationships, the newer version doesn't have 
relations as first class objects, it doesn't seperate attributes from 
relations, etc.), but otherwise has many of the same features.

--Paul Fernhout
http://www.pointrel.org

Niki Spahiev wrote:
> 8/29/2003, 19:11:51, Paul D. Fernhout wrote:
> 
> [...]
> PDF> Well, to chime in here, in a "friendly" competition / cooperation sort 
> PDF> of way, the Pointrel Data Repository System,
> PDF>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pointrel/
> PDF> while not quite an object database (and admittedly its case being 
> PDF> easier) has a simple API in the bare minimum use case (it has more 
> PDF> complex variants). Here is an example of its use (with fragments 
> PDF> inspired in response to an earlier c.l.p poster's use case a few days ago):
> 
> How it compares with e4graph?
> 



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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From messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 25 11:13:35 2003
From: messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com (ataraxia2500)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:13:35 +0200
Subject: newbie script
References: <3f71937f$0$28022$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <bks61f$3s3$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f719ed5$0$14824$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net> <bks7pp$4a8$1@newsfeed.eris.qinetiq.com> <3f72eb7c$0$29964$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net> <bkuvdk$qpf$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f730632$0$8285$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>

Peter Otten wrote:

> ataraxia2500 wrote:
> 
>> I get that weird error when I tried to run the little loop, this is what
>> it says:
>> 
>> sys:1: DeprecationWarning: Non-ASCII character '\xa0' in file myloop.py
>> on line 3, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps
>> pep-0263.html for details
>>   File "myloop", line 3
>>     os.system('/home/joe/src/myprog/myprog')
>>     ^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>> 
>> does it mean anything to you?
> 
> 
> The whitespace before os.system() consists of '\xa0' characters, no idea
> why.
> 
> However, I have noticed that when I copy and paste from KNode 7.2 using
> Strg+C/Strg+V instead of the middle mouse button, all '\xa0' are magically
> converted back to old '\x20' space characters.
> 
> Peter
what editor do u use? I'm using kedit and kwrite



From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep 22 08:57:48 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:57:48 GMT
Subject: was: Re: looking for MOP documentation
References: <oprvfiy8i15j9jb9@news.tiscali.dk> <3F6319E9.4C7BAA0F@engcorp.com> <bk6jav$p0k$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <3F66F516.3D06D946@engcorp.com> <m2he3bexzj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <3F69AD0F.53D51719@engcorp.com> <3F69D215.5649AF66@hotmail.com> <3F69DFEB.5B05CED8@engcorp.com> <7h37k45j895.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <3F6B2AB1.2D839EF5@engcorp.com> <mailman.1063990230.32233.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3d6dt9e8i.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Holger Krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:

> Although probably 2/3 of the implementation of Python deal with the
> type/object implementations, from a using-the-language point of view
> the syntax probably contributes more obviously to the observed
> "simplicity" of Python.

OK, I disagree with you, too :-)

> But the term "meta object protocol" seems to point much more into
> the direction of types/objects as Michael suggests and here Python
> has a lot to offer. Is there some free material on MOP somewhere?

    http://www.elwoodcorp.com/alu/mop/contents.html

looks like being a version of AMOP online, you know that book I
brought with me to one of the pypy sprints :-) (actually, it may have
been the Gothenbourg sprint).  I can bring it to the next sprint I
come to, if you like.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  SCSI is not magic. There are fundamental technical reasons why it
  is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and
  then.                                                  -- John Woods



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Sep  9 03:59:24 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:59:24 +0100
Subject: Jython class names
Message-ID: <zsNtMLAchYX$EwY3@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I recently came across a problem with porting to Jython

basically the following is prints 1 in CPython, but not in Jython.

class C:
        pass

red = C()
print red.__class__.__name__ is 'C'


it seems that Jython doesn't intern names in the same way or instances
are not constructed in the same way. Is the above test robust or should
I always be using == for testing class names?
-- 
Robin Becker



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Sep 24 15:05:38 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:05:38 GMT
Subject: Bottleneck? More efficient regular expression?
References: <3f7069db_4@corp.newsgroups.com> <oA6cb.1241$RW4.485@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net> <mailman.1064393134.9084.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6Wlcb.2095$RW4.416@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Me:
> I get confused with the DOM API every time I try

/F:
> the DOM API is designed for consultants, not for humans or
> computers.

Here I thought I was making a living the last few years as
a consultant.  Now I find I was making a living being a human.
I'm feeling much better now.  :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From leonardbocock at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 23 22:19:58 2003
From: leonardbocock at yahoo.com (lebo)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 19:19:58 -0700
Subject: Python embedded in C & memory releasing
Message-ID: <63701d2f.0309231819.31fdec85@posting.google.com>

Hi

I'm trying to understand how Python handles memory usage and dynamic
object loading and unloading.  Problem to solve? Build a very low
memory footprint (non-GUI) Python application for Unix/Windows. Why
use Python? End user flexibility.

So far it seems that (on Windows):
(1) memory increases when you import <module>. Expected behaviour.
(2) memory does not release when you del <module>. Why not?  Is Python
not releasing the memory or is it the OS not releasing memory?

So then I tried embedded Python in C:
(1) c application base 1.6MBytes (a good number)
(2) Call Python function from c application - memory up to 2.6MByte
(OK number)
(3) Python function exits but memory usage stays at 2.6MByte

Why is memory not releasing? How can I tell if this Python behaviour
or OS behaviour?

C code snippet:
#include <Python.h>

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
	int y = 0;
	printf("Started...\n");
	for (int count=0;count < 999999999;count++) {
		y += 1;
	}
	printf("Initing Py\n");
	Py_Initialize();
	PyRun_SimpleString("from time import sleep\n"
				"print 'I will sleep for a while'\n"
				"sleep(10)\n"
				"print 'Exiting Py'\n");
	Py_Finalize();

	for (int count=0;count < 999999999;count++) {
		y += 1;
	}
  return 0;
}

Thanks, Leonard



From sag at hydrosphere.com  Mon Sep  8 15:38:38 2003
From: sag at hydrosphere.com (sag at hydrosphere.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:38:38 -0400
Subject: Deepcopy on XML node in python2.2 problem
Message-ID: <3F5CA27E.17594.1EF341CE@localhost>

Pythonistas,

I have been using python 2.1 on a windows platform to develop some 
xml processing classes.  The input xml can be such that I want to 
take out parts of its and convert it to a text representation and put 
the text back in as a single 'text' node.  I am using 
_xmlplus.minidom.  

I am now moving the code to a Red Hat Linux machine with python 2.2, 
and I am getting an error that doesn't occur with the exact same code 
on the python 2.1 machine.  See below for output from the two 
platforms.  

Basically, I locate the base of the subnode tree that I want to 
convert and I do a deep copy on the node tree and then I convert that 
copy to a new xml object and get the string version of it back. The 
problem seems to be in deepcopy.  On windows, it returns a copy of 
the subnode tree that has a parent that is a DOM element and that has 
the children I would expect from the copy, while on the python2.2 the 
parent is a text node and the children are completely different. If I 
don't use deepcopy, parts of the original tree are removed when I do 
an appendChild call on the new subnode xml object.  

I am a very intermediate python programmer and I don't know enough to 
try to chase down what's going on in deepcopy.  Does anyone who is a 
guru have any ideas on what might be causing this?  Is it a 
difference between windows/linux or between python2.1 and 2.2?  

My goal is to convert a subnode tree to a single text node where the 
subnode tree is converted totally to xml text string.  

See below for a somewhat abbreviated case that shows the difference.  
If I run this code on python 2.1 on windows, it runs.  If I run it on 
python 2.2 on linux, it fails.  

sue 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Code example:
# test deepcopy using minidom xml
# the point of all this is to carve out subsections of an xml
# and convert it to text that can stand alone as xml
# this is a small part of a set of classes for special xml handling
from _xmlplus.dom.minidom import parseString
from _xmlplus.dom import minidom
import copy
argName = 'arg'
def _convert2Text(child):
    xmlText = "<Sub/>"
    temp = parseString(xmlText)
    root = temp.documentElement
    for subNode in child.childNodes:
        cp = copy.deepcopy(subNode)
        print 'copy', cp
        print 'parent of copy', cp.parentNode
        print 'parent children', cp.parentNode.childNodes
        root.appendChild(cp)
    subText = temp.toxml()
    subText = subText.encode("utf-8")
    return subText
def _parseNode(node):
    results = {}
    if node.nodeType == node.ELEMENT_NODE:
        name = str(node.nodeName)
        attr = node.getAttribute('t')
        if not node.hasChildNodes():
            results[name] = ''
        elif len(node.childNodes) == 1 and                    
node.childNodes[0].nodeType == node.TEXT_NODE:
            value = str(node.childNodes[0].nodeValue)
            results[name] = value, attr
        else:
            for n in node.childNodes:
                results.update( _parseNode(n))
    else:
        pass
    return results
# convert it to modified version
def getArgs():
    root = _xmlDOM.documentElement
    argList = []
    for child in root.childNodes:
        if child.nodeName == argName:
            nodeValues = _parseNode(child)
            if len(nodeValues) == 1:
                try:
                    argList.append(nodeValues[argName])
                except KeyError:
                    subText = _convert2Text(child)
                    argList.append(subText)
            else:
                subText = _convert2Text(child)
                argList.append(subText)
    return argList

if __name__ == '__main__':
    print '+' * 20
    fn = r"<function>Aggregate</function>"
    kwds = r'<keywords><timeStep>1</timeStep></keywords>'
    kwds = ""
    tfn = fn + kwds
    fn = r"<function>TransformDS</function>"
    args = r'<arg>%s</arg>' % tfn
    f = "<PythonCall>" + fn + args + "</PythonCall>"
    xmlText = "%s%s" % (r'<?xml version="1.0"?>', f)
    _xmlDOM = parseString(xmlText)
    print _xmlDOM.toxml()
    args = getArgs()
    print 'after convert'
    print args
# end code

=======================
Results:
Ouput from python 2.1 on windows
+++++++++++++++++++++++
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<PythonCall><function>TransformDS</function><arg><function>Aggregate</
function></arg></PythonCall>
copy <DOM Element: function at 20644036>
parent of copy <DOM Element: arg at 20002972>
parent children [<DOM Element: function at 20644036>]
after convert
['<?xml version="1.0" ?>\n<Sub><function>Aggregate</function></Sub>']

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Output from python 2.2 on red hat linux
++++++++++++++++++++++++
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<PythonCall><function>TransformDS</function><arg><function>Aggregate</
function></arg></PythonCall>
copy <DOM Element: function at 141868116>
parent of copy <DOM Element: arg at 142546132>
parent children [<DOM Text node "TransformD...">]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/sag/testBad.py", line 23, in _convert2Text
    root.appendChild(cp)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", 
line 171, in appendChild
    node.parentNode.removeChild(node)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", 
line 212, in removeChild
    self.childNodes.remove(oldChild)
ValueError: list.remove(x): x not in list





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Tue Sep 30 15:26:21 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 12:26:21 -0700
Subject: can i implement virtual functions in python ?
References: <e73c30c6.0309300653.24456567@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <33803989.0309301126.5798a116@posting.google.com>

Hello Prabu,

> I'm new to python, so excuse me if i'm asking something dumb. 
> Does python provide a mechanism to implement virtual functions?
> Can you please give a code snippet also...:)

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011500000000000000000

Miki



From tonarn at localhost  Sat Sep  6 10:38:53 2003
From: tonarn at localhost (Toni Arnold)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 14:38:53 GMT
Subject: win32api.GetShortPathName : nt4.0 != win2k
Message-ID: <1103_1062859133@entarin>

I am using Zope 2.6.1 on win32 with integrated Python 2.1.3 and just discovered that

>>> win32api.GetShortPathName("C:/a long folder/a long file.txt")

behaves equally on nt4.0 and win2k: On both systems this error is raised if the file does not exist:

pywintypes.api_error: (2, 'GetShortPathName', 'Das System kann die angegebene Datei nicht finden.')

BUT (!): 

>>> win32api.GetShortPathName("C:/a long folder/file.txt")

behaves differently: On nt4.0 the file doesn't need to exist, probably because the name "file.txt" is already well formed according to the DOS 8+3 naming 
convention. On win2k, the same error as above is raised. 

This can break upwards compatibility of existing win32 Python/Zope applications using DOS helper applications, e.g. mine :-(




From gordon at dragonsdawn.net  Tue Sep 16 13:47:39 2003
From: gordon at dragonsdawn.net (Gordon Messmer)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:47:39 -0700
Subject: problems with threaded socket app
References: <pan.2003.09.14.23.17.52.205571@dragonsdawn.net> <3f656f76$0$20942$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.16.17.47.39.120458@dragonsdawn.net>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:58:50 +0200, Anthony McDonald wrote:
> 
>         if rpipe not in ready_pipes[0]:
>             # Time to cancel this SMTP conversation
>             smtpi.close()
>             # The dialback thread will now write a failure message to
>             # its status pipe, and we'll need to clear that out.
>             os.read( rpipe, 1024 )
>             continue
> 
> The code creates a "race" condition. To work correctly it requires the
> worker thread to raise and handle an exception, and to write that result
> onto the pipe BEFORE your main thread attempts to read the pipe.
> 
> If the worker thread loses the race, the next MX result you process will
> recieve the last MX's results 400 error code, and your left with 1 thread at
> the end of the sequence which can't terminate as it stays active until what
> its written to the pipe is read from the pipe.
> 
> Simple enough to fix, just add a select call between closing the SMTP
> connection and reading the expected 400 error response.


I can do that, but can you explain why, if the monitor thread loses the
race, it wouldn't block until the worker thread writes its status to the
pipe?

The code below should have the same race condition, but it works properly.

[root at deerhunter root]# python2
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jan 30 2003, 21:26:22)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-112)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> import thread
>>> import time
>>> def write_stat( wpipe ):
...     time.sleep(20)
...     os.write( wpipe, 'my status' )
...
>>> (rpipe, wpipe) = os.pipe()
>>> thread.start_new_thread( write_stat, (wpipe,) )
1026
>>> test = os.read( rpipe, 1024)
>>> print test
my status
>>>




From BoteDesSchattens at web.de  Thu Sep 11 14:54:31 2003
From: BoteDesSchattens at web.de (Tobias Pfeiffer)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 18:54:31 GMT
Subject: FIFO problems
References: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de> <tJZ7b.67$o71.53@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bjqgd6$l42hf$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in
news:tJZ7b.67$o71.53 at news2.central.cox.net: 

>> while 1:
>>     line = serverIn.readline()[:-1]
>>     if line == "bla":
>>         do this
>>     else:
>>         print line
>>
> 
> The problem here is that you aren't testing correctly for and
> end-of-file condition.

So the end-of-file-thingy also ends a line for the readline-command, I 
suppose? OK, would make sense for normal file read-processes... *grin*

> The slice notation you use to "remove the line terminator"
> unfortunately gives the same result for an empty line (one
> containing only a line terminator) and end-of-file (which returns a
> line containing no characters at all).
> 
> There are various ways around this. Since you are talking
> interactive multi-process stuff here it's probably safest to do
> somehting like the following (untested) code:
> 
> while 1:
>     line = serverIn.readline()
>     if not line:
>         break

as changed:
    	line = line[:-1]

>     if line == "bla":
>         do something incredibly interesting
>     else:
>         print line

In which case will the "if not line" condition be true? When there is 
an end-of-file? But I just don't want it to break, I want it to 
continue and wait for a somewhat useful line, e.g. if another client 
connects.

Bye and thanks for your help
Tobias



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Sep  1 12:46:55 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:46:55 GMT
Subject: exception question
References: <lfp4lv8krqakeea3d0k0tcm86mb2mnf2v3@4ax.com> <bivm92$c9$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3KK4b.11097$nw1.366911@news1.tin.it>

Aahz wrote:

> In article <lfp4lv8krqakeea3d0k0tcm86mb2mnf2v3 at 4ax.com>,
> Gon?alo Rodrigues  <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>>
>>For error processing I found convenient maintaining a dictionary where
>>the keys are exception *classes* and the values are callables. Of
>>course, for this to work, exception classes have to be hashable which
>>I happily found that they were. So my question is, can I count on this
>>behaviour? Or is this behaviour I should not count on? (I found
>>nothing on the docs about it, thus the question).
> 
> If it's not documented, you can't count on it.  There's no intrinsic
> reason exception classes would be made unhashable, *but* classes become
> unhashable as soon as they implement __cmp__() or __eq__() *and* they
> fail to implement __hash__().  So if someone ever asks to compare
> exceptions, it could be an issue.

A new-style class would NOT become unhashable by implementing __eq__
w/o __hash__, although its INSTANCES would (but Gon?alo is clearly
indicating that he cares about classes, not instances).  Unfortunately
exception classes are old-style, so they'd be subject to the darned
old confusion between class and instance.  HOWEVER, one might hope
that if ever standard exception classes ARE changed in a way that is
not backwards compatible, by adding __eq__ &c, then at the same time
they might be made new-style classes, which would in any case have
much lesser potential for old-code breakage.


> You may want to bring this issue up on python-dev.

Good suggestion -- but I'd further suggest the class-vs-instance
and old-vs-new classes distinctions be clearly kept in mind when 
so doing.


Alex




From ray at rays-web.com  Fri Sep 19 09:14:58 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 19 Sep 2003 06:14:58 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063856727.16858.python-list@python.org> <87r82e6yxg.fsf@pobox.com> <6ee58e07.0309181053.70facb64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0309190514.134790cb@posting.google.com>

llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<6ee58e07.0309181053.70facb64 at posting.google.com>...
> jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87r82e6yxg.fsf at pobox.com>...
> 
> > Ken Godee <ken at perfect-image.com> writes:
> > 
> > John, is Ken right that buying the commercial BlackAdder license means
> > you don't have to pay for the TT license too?  Certainly a good deal
> > if so.
> > 
> 
> Yes, please answer about this topic. This is one thing that would be
> great but there is also no clue on the website about it.

The web page mentions a number of times that nothing else is required,

Quotes from the BA web page:

"BlackAdder gives the programmer, in a single package, all they need
to develop sophisticated applications."

" A complete cross-platform Integrated Development Environment for
developing GUI applications in Python and Ruby. You don't need
anything else."

"Personal and Business Editions. The Business Edition includes
optional support and the rights to distribute the run-time elements
with your application at no extra charge."

"Detailed Features...
The Professional version of the Qt GUI toolkit (v3.x) including:
    * the Canvas module
    * the Table module
    * the Database module
    * Qsocket, QserverSocket, and Qhost Address classes from the
Network module."


"Business Edition Features...
#  Includes the rights to distribute the run-time elements (except
mxODBC) with your application. "


"Requirements
BlackAdder requires Python version 2.2.x. "


Although it doesn't explicity say .. "You are NOT required to buy QT
or PyQT
licenses..."  it says a number of times .. that nothing else is
required to make
and distribute full blown applications, and it also lists the only
requirement
as Python 2.2.x.  So with all that info one must "assume" QT and PyQT
licenses
are included with BA!!!

Regards,

Ray Smith



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 12:14:12 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:14:12 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu> <cthvmvk3uif5qt1hkftmp2hbdia74fjq3d@4ax.com> <bkp40c$j0o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <_9Vbb.105320$hE5.3711223@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <0cp0nv8mao24iml4hjamv23fhfiv12e7jk@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:22:50 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

>> Adding operators to types is always problematic because it defeats
>> Pythons's runtime checking. Assuming that integer slicing would be added
>> to Python, methods that would expect a list of integers would suddenly
>> also work with integers. In most cases, they would not work correctly, but
>> you wouldn't get a meaningful exception.
>
>Careful: in Stephen's proposal, slicing would NOT work on *INTEGERS* --
>rather, it would work on the *INT TYPE ITSELF*, which is a very, very
>different issue.

Exactly - thanks for that.

Actually, Sean Ross posted a prototype implementation which makes a
good point - theres no reason why the sliceable object needs to be the
standard 'int' type in Python as it is now. Maybe a library extended
int type, imported only if used, makes sense. Maybe this is a recipe
or library proposal rather than a language proposal.

>>> Also, one extra feature is that the loop can be infinite (which range
>>> and xrange cannot achieve)...
>>>
>>>   for i in int [0:] :
>
>No way, Jose -- now THAT would break things (in admittedly rare
>cases -- a method expecting a list and NOT providing an upper bound
>in the slicing).  I'd vote for this to be like int[0:sys.maxint+1]
>(i.e., last item returned is sys.maxint).

True - but boundless generators are already in use.

An implicit sys.maxint(ish) upper bound seems wrong to me. I would
either go with allowing the infinite loop or requiring an explicit
upper bound.

>What Stephen's proposal lacks is rigorous specs of what happens for all
>possible slices -- e.g int[0:-3] isn't immediately intuitive, IMHO;-).

You're right in that this was not intended as a full formal proposal.
But lets see what I can do...

To me, it should be possible to create slices for negative ranges as
easily as positive ranges, so the convention of -1 giving the last
item wouldn't apply.

I already had to look at this issue when I wrapped some C++ container
classes for Python recently (unreleased at present due to the need for
further Pythonicising) - the whole point of doing so was that the
containers allow some more power and flexibility compared with the
Python ones. For instance, my set and (dictionary-like) map classes
are conveniently and efficiently sliceable. But how should the slicing
work?

BTW - there is a price for flexibility - I was very surprised at the
relative speed of a dictionary (at least an order of magnitude faster
than my map) though to be fair I haven't done even trivial
optimisation stuff yet. No, these aren't STL containers.

Anyway, back to the point...

I could have treated slices as specifying subscripts (while the data
structure is *not* a sorted array, it does support reasonably
efficient subscripting) but I felt the upper and lower bounds should
be key values rather than subscripts. But when basing the bounds on
keys, a bound of '-1' logically means a bound with the key value of -1
- not the highest subscript value.

The 'step' value is slightly inconsistent in that it had to be a
subscript-like step (stepping over a specific number of items rather
than a specific key range) as the keys don't always have a sensible
way to interpret these steps. But I'm drifting from the point again.

As a 'set of integers' would IMO logically be sliced by key too, '-1'
should just be a key like any other key, giving...

>>> int [-5:0]
[-5, -4, -3, -2, -1]

>>> int [0:-5]
[]

>>> int [0:-5:-1]
[0, -1, -2, -3, -4]

So to me, the slice should be evaluated as follows...

if step is None : default step to 1
if step == 0 : raise IndexError

if start is None :
  either default to zero or raise IndexError, not sure

if stop is None :
  either raise IndexError or...

  if step > 0 :
    default stop to +infinity
  else :
    default stop to -infinity

Obviously that isn't a real implementation ;-)


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Sep 17 08:14:11 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:14:11 -0400
Subject: When passing functions as args,
References: <mailman.1063746594.3920.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TAFa/ks/KPfa089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.1063746594.3920.python-list at python.org>,
python at sarcastic-horse.com wrote:
>When I pass a function as an arg, like for map(...), how do I pass args to
>use for that function?
>If I have a function like this:
>
>def pretty_format(f, fmt='%0.3f'):
>    return fmt % f
>
>I want to use it with map() like this:
>
>formatted = map(pretty_format, unformatted_list)
>#exept I want fmt='%4.5f' !!!
>
>I need to figure out how to pass a non-default value for fmt.  How do I do
>that?

    map (lambda x: pretty_format (x, '%4.5f'), unformatted_list)

or

    [pretty_format (x, '%4.5f') for f in unformatted_list]

should do the trick.  Actually filling in the default
argument is not simple, and probably isn't radically better
than the above.

   Unless you're going to put more functionality into
pretty_format, or you have some other reason to centralize
your formatting,

    ['%4.5f' % x for x in unformatted_list]

might be best of all.

        Regards.        Mel.



From emile at fenx.com  Tue Sep 30 16:44:07 2003
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:44:07 -0700
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
References: <62e9c66e.0309301227.20505db6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <blcpps$am3p6$1@ID-11957.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Dominik Kaspar" <dokaspar at student.ethz.ch> wrote in message
news:62e9c66e.0309301227.20505db6 at posting.google.com...
> maybe my question was badly formulated. i give it a new try:
> why does the following program give the output "0 0" and not "1 0"?
> why does it loop forever? and how could that problem be fixed?

As written, you have a local varaible running in method run that gets set
and never changes.  The class variable you're looking for is Server.running,
like this:

import time, threading

class Server(threading.Thread):
    running = 0

    def run(self):
        Server.running = 1
        while Server.running:
            print "do something here..."
            time.sleep(5)

    def stop(self):
        Server.running = 0

server = Server()
server.start()
print server.running        # should print "1"
server.stop()


--
Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com





From neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk  Thu Sep 25 09:36:40 2003
From: neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk (Neil Padgen)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:36:40 +0000
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com>
 <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com>
 <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com>
 <ebt0nvckrjv0or52pdmi8ghe147006ioi9@4ax.com>
 <kl31nvk4j0lhsbmeg9pra3c4mh78rrkivp@4ax.com>
 <6bm1nvc7pfkqppndn0lcks0edqdqf02tra@4ax.com>
 <9ji3nv8l1l57t1ichle04hkd41s31i9fmf@4ax.com>
 <tek3nv87eq8etb7f3m7k6j63u4m7trstpj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <86ad8t7zx3.fsf@pc-nrp.dev.mon.bbc.co.uk>

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:

    Stephen> So a 'break if ... :' cannot accidentally metamorphose
    Stephen> into a 'break; if ... :'.

It can if you press return at the wrong place:

    while True:
        blah ; blah ; blah
    break
    if condition:
        blah ; blah ; blah

This would be perfectly legal if the new-style while loop were in
another loop.

-- Neil



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sat Sep 13 13:43:28 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:43:28 -0500
Subject: gdmodule true type font size
Message-ID: <m2r82ky473.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

When using gdmodule to draw text using true type fonts

  im.string_ttf(font, fontsize, angle, (x,y), s, color)

the docs say 'draw string s at (x,y) using the TrueType font at the
given pointsize and angle.'  It is not clear to me how gd handles
point size.  A fontsize of 12 should be 12/72 = 1/6 inches tall but
how does gd decide what an inch is?  72 pixels?  Is there some scale
parameter or constant that allows gd to make the conversion from
pixels to points?

I want my text to scale with image resolution which is determined by a
dpi parameter, and I tried doing

  scale = dpi/72.0
  im.string_ttf(font, scale*fontsize, angle, (x,y), s, color)

but the fonts are larger than they should be, at least according to my
calculations.

Thanks,
John Hunter




From ian_maurer at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 17 16:19:41 2003
From: ian_maurer at yahoo.com (Ian Maurer)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:19:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Money data type
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382F8D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <20030917201941.41872.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>

Check out this project:

http://fixedpoint.sourceforge.net/

Good Luck!
- Ian 


--- "Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote:
> Can't find it.
> 
> I mean something like:
> 
> >> m1 = Money(decimal=2)
> >> m2 = Money(decimal=2)
> >> m1.value = 3.20
> >> m2.value = 2.15
> >> print m1 + m2
> 5.35
> 
> 5.35! Not 5.3500000000000001 neither 5.34999999999999999999.
> 
> I think this is not a rare thing, but I can't find it in the
> standar library
> neither the package index.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> .	Facundo
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


___________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versi?n GRATIS
Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y m?s...
http://messenger.yahoo.es




From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Sep 25 22:03:10 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:03:10 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <y7Ncb.3617$RW4.1457@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Stephen Ferg:
> When did Windows start accepting the forward slash as a path separator
> character?

DOS 2.  When directories were introduced.  Many of the functions
were based on unix, down to a NUL terminated filename and the
name "creat".

But DOS 1 was modelled on CP/M which used "/" as a command
line option flag.  You couldn't use a "/" in the DOS shell because
it would be interpreted as the flag.  You could change the flag using
a DOS command, eg, to use "-" instead, but that was disabled in
the 3.x days; for good reason.

Hence, the low-level DOS commands (since 2.0) would take
both / and \ as separators, but some codes did their own
filename munging and would not.

> At one time, it was accepted as a truism that Windows (like MS-DOS)
> was different from Unix because Windows used the backslash as the path
> separator character, whereas Unix used the forward slash.

It was?  My copy of Norton's Guide to the IBM PC makes
the explicit statement that directories were directly influenced by
unix.  I actually regard this as a point of similarity.  The character
used is a minor issue.

There are, of course, many ways in which they are different.  Like
drive names, which comes from CP/M, and the filesystem layout
itself (FAT vs. inodes).  And DOS had much better IDEs, like
Turbo Pascal.  ;)

> I hypothesize that originally Windows accepted only the backslash, and
> then at some time it changed to accept the forward slash as well.
> Does anyone know when that change occurred?  Was it with the
> introduction of support for long filenames in NT and Win95?

The original Windows was a shell on top of DOS.  Programs
under Windows could use the DOS layer directly, which took
both separators.  Even in Wn95 I could exit to DOS, meaning
I could quite out of Win95 to the shell prompt then do 'win'
to start it up again.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From medved at fcc.net  Fri Sep 12 08:28:59 2003
From: medved at fcc.net (Ted Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:28:59 -0400
Subject: pygtk clist usage
References: <vFqdnf3p0PyDIcOiXTWJhw@fcc.net> <Xyz7b.8398$NW3.3367@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <aW-dnTsEk5eRI_yiXTWJkw@fcc.net>

David M. Cook wrote:


> BTW, CList is deprecated (meaning it will go away in the next major gtk
> release).  ListStore/TreeView can be a bit hard to make the transition to,
> though, as the documentation is rather scattered and fragmentary.  Best
> sources of info are...

I've been trying to take a look at the TreeView/ListStore model.  I mean,
you've gotta be kidding.  Who do you expect to want to try to figure that
out in order to use a simple listbox?  

Other than that, I'm seeing a conceptual problem with the pygtk
documentation is that it appears to all be oriented towards coding gtk
objects by hand.

In real life, most people are going to want to use glade to design gui's,
and this is not laziness on the part of programmers.  Having the gui
sitting there in an XML file is a hell of a neat thing.  The application
I'm working on, which works at this point, used to look like about 3000
lines of code in a Tcl/Tk version, in which Tk code was wound in and around
app code so thoroughly that it was difficult even for me to read.  The
glade/pygtk/swig version looks like about 400 lines of code which is very
easy to read and work with;  again, all the gui code is sitting there in an
XML file.

The idea of coding guis by hand is probably unacceptable to most people at
this point.



                    . .                     , ,                               
                 ____)/                     \(____                            
        _,--''''',-'/(                       )\`-.`````--._                 
     ,-'       ,'  |  \       _     _       /  |  `-.      `-.             
   ,'         /    |   `._   /\\   //\   _,'   |     \        `.            
  |          |      `.    `-( ,\\_//  )-'    .'       |         |           
 ,' _,----._ |_,----._\  ____`\o'_`o/'____  /_.----._ |_,----._ `.          
 |/'        \'        `\(      \(_)/      )/'        `/        `\|
 `                      `       V V       '                      '            

                                                             
Splifford the bat says:  

        Don't throw the old stuff away,
        until the new stuff works....







From jetman516 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 27 19:20:06 2003
From: jetman516 at hotmail.com (The Jetman)
Date: 27 Sep 2003 16:20:06 -0700
Subject: [2.2.1]How To Gracefully Shutdown an XML-RPC Server
References: <a38d43b0.0309261712.540f96da@posting.google.com> <yx6db.4829$RW4.3093@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <a38d43b0.0309271520.3f4548b4@posting.google.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<yx6db.4829$RW4.3093 at newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> The Jetman:
> > I'm reading source code, but I haven't found any examples of
> > how to simply shutdown my XML-RPC server.
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/114579
> 
> Or you can ungracefully use os._exit, like pulling the emergency
> brake on a train.
> 
>                     Andrew
>                     dalke at dalkescientific.com

Andrew:

Thanx !  I *swear* I always spend at least a couple hours or so looking 
for stuf like this on my own !  That's the single most frustrating part 
about the Web (besides this idiotic W32.Swen virus/worm) !  No matter 
how you compose a query, there's always something that you miss....

BTW, I haven't tried it, but I bet os._exit will fail just like 
sys.exit().  Besides the reason for a graceful shutdown is more 
than cosmetic, since a forced shutdown (like a Ctrl-C) may occasionally 
leave the sockets allocated (which *has* happened.)

Later....Jet



From lists at webcrunchers.com  Sun Sep  7 20:16:12 2003
From: lists at webcrunchers.com (John D.)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 17:16:12 -0700
Subject: CSV Module questions
Message-ID: <v03110703bb817a7e5b56@[192.168.0.2]>

I'm trying to understand how to use the "csv" module.  I assume this means "comma seperated values" in files.

I also posted this earlier,  but didn't see it get posted to the list,  so excuse the possible double posting.

I quote from the docs...


http://python.org/doc/current/lib/csv-fmt-params.html
"When creating reader or writer objects, the programmer can specify a string or a subclass of the Dialect class as the dialect parameter"

Ok,  that's fine and dandy,  but how do I specify it when I want to create
a "writer" to write a simple dictionary to a file,  and specify how it's to be written?

Example (from the docs):

# Just some stupid dictionary with key same as value.
someiterable = {'john d': 'john d', 'fred': 'fred'}

# make the writer.
writer = csv.writer(file("some.csv", "w"))
for row in someiterable:
    writer.writerow(row)

Ok,  so this made the file,  but the file contents are thus...

$ less some.csv
j,o,h,n, ,d
f,r,e,d

which is NOT what I want.   Obviously I have to probably make a "Dialect"
or something like that.   But how do I do that?    Obviously,  since Python severely lacks acceptable example code....   why didn't they just put in a few examples of how to do this?   I certainly cannot figure this out.

Here is what I want...

"john d", "john d"
"fred", "fred"

How to I write to a file in this way?    Is is possible?

John






From knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk  Fri Sep  5 02:18:27 2003
From: knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk (Martin Christensen)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 08:18:27 +0200
Subject: Selecting elements from a list
References: <87y8x4w6ym.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <bj8f4v$8kl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <87brtzu5ak.fsf@gvdnet.dk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Duncan" == Duncan Smith <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
Duncan> Is this the sort of thing you mean?

Duncan> >>> A = [0, 1, 2, 'four', 'five', 6.0]
Duncan> >>> [x for x in A if isinstance(x, str)]
Duncan> ['four', 'five']
Duncan> >>>

Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I meant. For some reason, I have
built some intuition of list comprehensions as always being one to
one. Now, the one place I should have looked that I didn't was the
Python tutorial, which I thought I was done with by now. The clarity
of hindsight is a bitch. :-) Thanks.

Martin

- -- 
Homepage:       http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using Mailcrypt+GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org>

iEYEARECAAYFAj9YKrMACgkQYu1fMmOQldX6kACglqJBUiFL4gGrRmDgchZYEm53
vWQAnRxm7YzaGSlhIRtLd29zwlCmplDA
=7NNS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Sep  7 15:16:54 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Sep 2003 15:16:54 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062934990.9290.python-list@python.org> <p3idnVDIPrJm5caiU-KYgg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bjg076$ajd$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <p3idnVDIPrJm5caiU-KYgg at comcast.com>,
Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>Perhaps Python needs two front pages or even two sites.  One for the
>IT manager types that you seem to be aiming at, who would be impressed
>by the corporate look that tends to depress me, and one for
>programmers just looking for info.  The current site, perhaps with
>more tweeks, is pretty good for the latter but not, I would agree, for
>the former.

I'm leaning toward vetoing any such plan.  One problem with the Perl
community is that it's not clear which web site to use for different
purposes -- I think we should keep www.python.org as the universal URL.

That said, there likely will be a subsection of python.org that is aimed
at managers, with a more designed look and more graphics; someone trying
to convince a specific manager could point zir into the subsection.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From medved at fcc.net  Wed Sep 10 01:44:02 2003
From: medved at fcc.net (Ted Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:44:02 -0400
Subject: pygtk clist usage
Message-ID: <vFqdnf3p0PyDIcOiXTWJhw@fcc.net>

If anybody has any sort of a clue as to how to use a clist generated by
glade as a list, the 'GtkList' changed to 'GtkClist' by hand, and add input
strings using 'append' and end up seeing more than just the first character
of each line, I'd appreciate hearing from them.






From danielk at aracnet.com  Tue Sep  2 08:45:57 2003
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 05:45:57 -0700
Subject: Polymorphism the Python way
References: <smr2lvop984g1k1q30iidmm0lg8uecolqa@4ax.com> <bis8k4$sjv$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m349lvgot9ghsmii9b85uoq34qfhbho8jq@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:37:00 +0200, "Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de>
wrote:

>I am not sure I understand your problem. What you do is fine (though it is
>not exactly 'polymorphism'). I assume you  mean:
>     instance.getthing()
>because writing self.getthing() has unclear connotations.

Yes, sorry...'instance' (or 'object') is what I meant. :-(

It's not a problem really. I just thought there would be a better,
more elegant way to achieve polymorphism without using getters.

Daniel Klein



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 01:15:37 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 9 Sep 2003 22:15:37 -0700
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org> <slrnblj40a.vc8.grey@dmiyu.org> <bjd8ov$93g$0@216.39.172.122> <slrnbllgu3.di8.grey@dmiyu.org> <m3k78j6v5e.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org> <vCu7b.201587$2x.57934@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0309092115.41dc6881@posting.google.com>

"Al Kirke" <alkirke1 at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<vCu7b.201587$2x.57934 at rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>...
> "Nick Vargish" <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote in message
> news:m3k78j6v5e.fsf at tanelorn.bandersnatch.org...
> > Steve Lamb <grey at despair.dmiyu.org> writes:
> >
> > >     Do this simple test.  Get an egg timer (or any other timing device).
> > > Now set it to 4, maybe 5 minutes.  Now lock yourself in the closet.
> >
> > Counter-test: Imagine your seven-year-old son finding your gun and
> > shooting and killing your five-year-old daughter while you're working
> > in your study.
> 
> Impossible.  The son had been taught safe gun handling on
> the pistol range w/ a .22 starting at aged five, and would
> come and tell you that firearm had not been safely stored.
> 
> Al

Why is it impossible for someone who has been taught safe gun handling
to shoot and kill someone else?  Do they use aversion therapy or
something?



From wester at ilt.fraunhofer.de  Mon Sep 22 05:01:20 2003
From: wester at ilt.fraunhofer.de (Rolf Wester)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:01:20 +0200
Subject: thread question
Message-ID: <bkmdp9$gvr$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Hi,

I have an application that starts a second thread, that receives 
messages via a socket-server and puts that messages into a queue. The 
main thread is polling that queue for new messages. My problem is that 
the main thread takes to much of the time polling the empty queue while 
the socket-server thread doesn't get enough time for receiving the 
messages. Is it possible to force the main threat to sleep for a certain
amount of time or give the socket-server thread a higher priority?
Thanks in advance.

Kind regards

Rolf Wester




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 10:33:37 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:33:37 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl>
Message-ID: <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com>

"Grzegorz Staniak" <gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl> wrote in message
news:slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak at inka.zagiel.pl...
> Hello,
>
> I'm a newbie Python user, a systems administrator - I've been trying
> to switch from Perl to Python for administrative tasks - and one thing
> I cannot understand so far is why I need the special 'self' (or anything
> esle) argument in class method definitions. I might have missed an
> explanation in the docs, a quick Google search did not help. Is there
> somewhere on the web you could direct me to?

It's in the FAQ somewhere.

Technically, it would be possible to make "self" a reserved
word, and not have to put it in the method declaration. However,
there are a lot of people who use something other than the
word "self," so that would break existing code.

John Roth

>
> Thanks,
>
> -- 
> Grzegorz Staniak <gstaniak at zagiel.com.pl>





From blunck at gst.com  Wed Sep 10 22:03:32 2003
From: blunck at gst.com (Christopher Blunck)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:03:32 -0400
Subject: ANNOUNCE:  ZSI v1.4.1 RC1
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.11.02.03.31.742671@gst.com>

I'm pleased to announce the first release candidate of ZSI v1.4.1.
                                                                                
ZSI is the plumbing that allows Python modules to communicate via SOAP.  New
in this release is the capability to consume a WSDL, and invoke methods against
the endpoint using the ServiceProxy class.  This code was generously donated
by Brian Lloyd and the Zope corporation.
                                                                                
Also new in this release is the capability to convert the complex types and
operations defined in a WSDL document into Python modules.  This makes
invocation of web services simple.
                                                                                
Please take a look at our website for more information:
  http://pywebsvcs.sf.net/
                                                                                
                                                                                




From sketerpot at chase3000.com  Wed Sep  3 12:22:48 2003
From: sketerpot at chase3000.com (Peter Scott)
Date: 3 Sep 2003 09:22:48 -0700
Subject: what is the easiest way to parse a file
References: <H_b5b.23$1o4.1177@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <659f82ff.0309030822.383db80a@posting.google.com>

> Is there a library in python which could be used for parsing file based upon
> various sections

I don't know what you're talking about, and I frankly doubt that
anyone else does either, but I'll hazard some guesses of vaguely
plausible things.

The standard ConfigPareser module
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-ConfigParser.html> can
parse windows-style INI files, which are arranged in sections.

There is always the usual XML/SGML stuff; I'm not very enthusiastic
about it, but you can see the documentation.
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/markup.html> If you need to
brush up on your XML, there's a nice intro at
<http://www.w3schools.com/xml/>. I say "nice" because it is the least
buzzword-crazed XML page I could think of off the top of my head.

You could also write something of your own. It shouldn't be too hard.
Perhaps you could split the file into sections with a regular
expression (try re.split(), or the split() method of a compiled
regexp), and then parse the sections individually. If you're working
with some odd format, that's probably the best solution if Google
fails you.

-Peter



From rstevens at bennington.edu  Sun Sep 21 18:09:42 2003
From: rstevens at bennington.edu (Rybread)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 15:09:42 -0700
Subject: using poplib to retrieve messages sent from a certain address
Message-ID: <a6fbdf56.0309211409.1cd4e88@posting.google.com>

Real quick, I have account X and I want a python script that goes in
and looks for emails sent from Y and then to save them.  i'm trying to
go off the swen killer I have listed below (which i took from someone
on this NG):

import poplib
import time

print 'Start at', time.asctime()

host = 'X'
port = 110
user = 'username'
pasw = 'password'

logfilename = 'sent_from_mobile_phone'
minsize = 130000
maxsize = 180000
fromtag = 'From user at domain  %s\n'

ps = poplib.POP3(host, port)
ps.user(user)
ps.pass_(pasw)

messages = ps.list()
print '%d messages, %d bytes' % (len(messages[1]), messages[-1])

logfile = open(logfilename, 'a')

for sms in messages[1]:
    sid, ssize = sms.split()
    if minsize <= int(ssize) < maxsize:
        message = ps.retr(sid)
        print 'retrieving and deleting msg#%s, %d bytes, %d lines' % (
            sid, message[-1], len(message[1]))
        logfile.write(fromtag % time.asctime())
        for line in message[1]:
            logfile.write(line)
            logfile.write("\n")
        logfile.write('\n')
        ps.dele(sid)

ps.quit()

print 'Done at', time.asctime()
print



From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Mon Sep  8 13:04:23 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (Manuel Bastioni)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:04:23 GMT
Subject: Get the date of last modification of a file
Message-ID: <rE27b.45940$R32.1458201@news2.tin.it>

It's possible using only a built-in module?

Thx,

           Manuel


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003





From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Wed Sep 17 14:27:54 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:27:54 GMT
Subject: SMTPlib Emailing Attachments
In-Reply-To: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com>
References: <4fd6e92.0309170849.287e86b6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <KI1ab.25228$dy5.1507439@phobos.telenet-ops.be>

Bill wrote:
> I am trying to have the capability to email attachments. Specifically
> I want to be able to email a specific attachment that I name that may
> be a PDF document, text doc, etc. I already have a working piece of
> code that emails jpg attachments but does not work with any other
> types of attachments. Could someone tell me how to modify this code to
> send other types of attachments like the one's stated above(especially
> PDF's)? Also how do I determine the name of the attachment? Right now
> it defaults to Attach0. Here is the current code I have below:
> _________________________________________________
> import sys, smtplib, MimeWriter, base64, StringIO
> 
> message = StringIO.StringIO()
> writer = MimeWriter.MimeWriter(message)
> writer.addheader('Subject', 'The Text test')
> writer.startmultipartbody('mixed')
> 
> # start off with a text/plain part
> part = writer.nextpart()
> body = part.startbody('text/plain')
> body.write('This is a picture of chess, enjoy :)')
> 
> # now add an image part
> part = writer.nextpart()
> part.addheader('Content-Transfer-Encoding', 'base64')
> body = part.startbody('image/jpeg')
> #body = part.startbody('text/plain')
> base64.encode(open('c:\email\chess01.jpg', 'rb'), body)
> 
> # finish off
> writer.lastpart()
> 
> # send the mail
> smtp = smtplib.SMTP('fc.hbu.edu')
> smtp.sendmail('bblancett at hbu.edu', 'bblancett at hbu.edu',
> message.getvalue())
> smtp.quit()
> __________________________________________________________________________

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to use the email module?

This is a snippet of how I send attachments (simply replace 
TO,FROM,Subect, path (full pathname including filename) and filename 
with relevant data):

import smtplib
import mimetypes
from email.Encoders import encode_base64
from email.MIMEAudio import MIMEAudio
from email.MIMEBase import MIMEBase
from email.MIMEImage import MIMEImage
from email.MIMEMultipart import MIMEMultipart
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText

def getAttachment(path, filename):
     ctype, encoding = mimetypes.guess_type(path)
     if ctype is None or encoding is not None:
         ctype = 'application/octet-stream'
     maintype, subtype = ctype.split('/', 1)
     fp = open(path, 'rb')
     if maintype == 'text':
         attach = MIMEText(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
     elif maintype == 'message':
         attach = email.message_from_file(fp)
     elif maintype == 'image':
         attach = MIMEImage(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
     elif maintype == 'audio':
         attach = MIMEAudio(fp.read(),_subtype=subtype)
     else:
         print maintype, subtype
         attach = MIMEBase(maintype, subtype)
         attach.set_payload(fp.read())
         encode_base64(attach)
     fp.close
     attach.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment',
			filename=filename)
     return attach


msg = MIMEMultipart()
msg['From'] = FROM
msg['To'] = TO
msg['Subject'] = SUBJECT
attach = getAttachment(path, filename)
msg.attach(attach)

server = smtplib.SMTP(MAILSERVER)
server.sendmail(FROM, [TO], msg.as_string())
server.quit()




From llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net  Tue Sep 23 10:47:19 2003
From: llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:47:19 +0200
Subject: load changes of subclasses
Message-ID: <bkpmki$4bc$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi,

I have a main program  that uses a lot of definitions in different classes.
They are included like this:
from subclass1 import *
from subclass2 import *
My problem is: whenever I make changes in one of the classes I have to 
close and reopen the main program for the changes to take effect. This 
is kind of annoying, because I always want to test if my changes are 
correct and that's why I have to run the main program. Is there some 
kind of a shortcut where I don't have to close and reopen the main program?

I hope this question is not too stupid, but I am still quite new to Python.
Thanks a lot.
Regards, Tom




From vald at valis.amber.eu.org  Wed Sep 10 16:10:20 2003
From: vald at valis.amber.eu.org (vald)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:10:20 +0200
Subject: TTF fonts rendered in Python
Message-ID: <20030910201019.GA22261@bobas.nowytarg.pl>

I wonder if there is any module for rendering True
Type Fonts in Python ? I need to create a GIF files
with nice antialiased text and I'm unable to find
any module with such functionality.

Sincerely,
 K.




From python at sarcastic-horse.com  Wed Sep 17 20:34:41 2003
From: python at sarcastic-horse.com (python)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:34:41 -0400
Subject: Module to generate OpenOffice Writer documents
In-Reply-To: <1093E8BAEB6AD411997300508BDF0A7C1571ECD0@USHEM204>
References: <1093E8BAEB6AD411997300508BDF0A7C1571ECD0@USHEM204>
Message-ID: <20030917203441.259609e5.python@sarcastic-horse.com>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:53:15 -0400
"Ellinghaus, Lance" <lance.ellinghaus at eds.com> wrote:

> Has anyone created a module to generate the XML formatted files for
> OpenOffice?
> 

Sorry, I can't help you there.

What I'd be even more interested in is if it is possible to submit the
xml to OpenOffice, and then use its rendering features to crank out
pretty PDF files, all through scripts.




From amk at amk.ca  Tue Sep  9 13:34:45 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:34:45 -0500
Subject: Redesign of Python site
References: <Xns93EEDC144D362whiteywidowyahoocom@216.77.188.17> <mailman.1063040841.27825.python-list@python.org> <VUOdnRS_xeZOYcCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <3F5E0171.B68BDE2F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <_WydnXPHCO6oksOiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:36:01 -0400, 
	Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> I think that's a distinct improvement, although I'd suggest putting
> the Documentation section (in the sidebar) _first_ rather than second
> after the Versions section.  

Really?  I envision people wanting information on a specific version first,
only later going to the more generic items under "documentation".
Do other people think this would be a good idea?

> I'd also move FAQ up to right under "What 
> is Python?".

Done.

> (You mention different top navbar links but they look the same to
> me, if you're talking about the Home/Search/Download stuff at the top.)

Oh, I'm an idiot and dropped an old version of the page on top of it.
Updated now, at same URL as before.  The navbar changes are: 1) dropping
SIGs and Help, 2) adding a not-yet-written "Contact us" page and a link to
the site map.

--amk



From harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com  Tue Sep 16 12:27:00 2003
From: harry.pehkonen at hotpop.com (Harry Pehkonen)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 09:27:00 -0700
Subject: Tkinter.Text can never be empty?
Message-ID: <70df36e9.0309160826.596dd5ab@posting.google.com>

While setting up some unit tests, I came to the conclusion that a
Tkinter Text widget can never be empty, but will always (?) contain a
\n.  Here is a brief example:

>>> import Tkinter
>>> t = Tkinter.Text()
>>> t.get(0.0, Tkinter.END)
'\n'
>>> t.delete(0.0, Tkinter.END)
>>> t.get(0.0, Tkinter.END)
'\n'
>>> 

My apologies, but I have not checked whether or not this can be
reproduced in Tcl/Tk (which I think might have been appropriate).

My question is:  Is there *always* a trailing \n, is this a bug, or am
I doing something silly?

Thanks!
Harry.



From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Sat Sep 20 18:18:54 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 15:18:54 -0700
Subject: Swen Detection code
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0309201418.459f8bfc@posting.google.com>

Writing pop3 filters in python seems to be a pretty popular activity
today. ;)

So far it looks like the actual executable attachment isn't mutating
like subject lines, from and to fields are.  I wrote some code that
scans message bodies for content-types that shouldn't be executable
(such as midis and wavs) and also scans content-types that should be
executable for the virus signature.

I just included the whole base64 encoded virus in the source file so
it's too large to post to usenet.  The code is available at:

http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/python/detectSwen.py

(I'll also email if anyone requests).

This code does NOT interface with pop or hit your mailserver.  It only
provides a predicate function for virus signature detection.  It also
doesn't do anything with bad bounces where the attachment has been
stripped.

As usual, use care when automatically deleting emails.

It'd also be a bad idea to do something like
file("test.exe","wb").write(base64.decodestring(virusSig))) ;)



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Sep  4 04:53:13 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:53:13 -0000
Subject: Writing solid code book
References: <b15d2792.0309030339.3ac939e7@posting.google.com> <87wucqni5j.fsf@pobox.com> <1dk5tt7q6acwf$.rcboqaop39ha.dlg@40tude.net> <3f56de81.372851401@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vldvbpb740srd5@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3f56de81.372851401 at news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:00:45 -0600, Jules Dubois
><bogus at invalid.tld> wrote:
>
>> (3), and Smalltalk (1); Thursday's vote will be between Java and Python.  I
>> get the opportunity to learn one or the other in a week.
>
>If you picked Jython you could all be happy! :-)
			.
			.
			.
I'm not sure how seriously others take this sug-
gestion.  I think it's worth full consideration. 
Jython is a remarkable achievement, and often 
addresses requirements more fully than either
Python or Java alone.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 15 03:08:17 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:08:17 +0200
Subject: pyc2py
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de>
References: <pan.2003.09.15.07.01.32.964993@thomas-guettler.de>
Message-ID: <3F656561.6070701@ghaering.de>

Thomas Guetttler wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Is there a script which converts compiled python code
> to human readable code? 
> 
> Google found no result for "pyc2py".

Try this keyword: decompyle

-- Gerhard




From llothar at web.de  Wed Sep 17 19:48:57 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 16:48:57 -0700
Subject: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)
References: <3f65f7e6$0$10993$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk> <6ee58e07.0309170543.354e65b0@posting.google.com> <mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0309171548.314a046c@posting.google.com>

Ken Godee <ken at perfect-image.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1063810287.4212.python-list at python.org>...

> I downloaded the demo and as far as I can tell it's fully fuctional
> Here's a quote from the opening screen......

and heres a quote from the web site.

------------
A demonstration version of BlackAdder can be downloaded at no charge.
The demonstration version has the following limitations.
You cannot save any changes to Python or Ruby scripts or GUI form
designs.

There is no HTML documentation. 

There is no Python Qt extension module. You can download this for
yourself from the PyQt/PyKDE homepage.

There is no ODBC connectivity. You can download this for yourself from
http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/eGenix-mx-Extensions.html.
----

i hope that there support for the program is better then the support
for their website. Everything in the last weeks doesn't look very
promising.



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Sep 24 22:24:52 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:24:52 +1000
Subject: send email 
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DEBF99AB@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Alberto Vera [mailto:avera at coes.org.pe]
> 
> Could you tell me How I can send an email using WIN2000? What do I need?

Most people use an email client. Common ones are Outlook, Outlook Express and Eudora.

For more information, look here:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Tim Delaney




From christoph at mmc-startup.com  Mon Sep 22 13:02:10 2003
From: christoph at mmc-startup.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:02:10 +0200
Subject: thread question
In-Reply-To: <bkmdp9$gvr$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
References: <bkmdp9$gvr$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <3F6F2B12.8080106@mmc-startup.com>

Hi,

You can also use threading.Condition()
This is useful for having some max. time and additionaly being able t 
start processing earlier again via cond.notify()

Christoph Becker-Freyseng



Rolf Wester wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have an application that starts a second thread, that receives 
> messages via a socket-server and puts that messages into a queue. The 
> main thread is polling that queue for new messages. My problem is that 
> the main thread takes to much of the time polling the empty queue while 
> the socket-server thread doesn't get enough time for receiving the 
> messages. Is it possible to force the main threat to sleep for a certain
> amount of time or give the socket-server thread a higher priority?
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Rolf Wester
> 






From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Mon Sep 29 08:12:33 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 12:12:33 GMT
Subject: compiling python program
References: <jVRbb.1943$Fq.1235@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com> <3F700543.350E2074@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbng8dh.18pa.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote on Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:33:07 -0700:
> Al wrote:
>> I'd like to "hide" my code from being viewed (linux). Is there anyway
>> for me
>> to compile my program into .pyc and only have the .pyc files
>> available, or
>> do I always have to have the .py file?
> You can just provide the .pyc file to clients.  But it will only be
> runnable by the same version of Python you used to compile it.

  I did that with the pre-open-source version of Umbra, and it worked
fine until Python got a new version; even then, it was just a matter of
recompiling it for 2.2 and replacing the zip, on the premise that anyone
who was going to run it would have the latest Python.

  If you have to, you can bundle Python with your program, and even use
py2exe to make a Windoze distribution.  MacOS X and Linux normally have
Python installed, so they don't need as much handholding as Windoze
users.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"I believe in communication.  If I communicate with you every so often, you'll
 be bothered by what I say enough that you won't ask me to, which means more
 sleep for me." -Something Positive, 2003Sep22



From joseph at ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Sep 23 19:47:40 2003
From: joseph at ugcs.caltech.edu (John Lin)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 16:47:40 -0700
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
Message-ID: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>

Howdy,

I want to know how to tell if a forked process is done.

Actually, my real question is that I want to run a shell script inside
of a python script, and after the shell script has finished running, I
want to do more stuff *condition* on the fact that the shell script
has finished running, inside the same python script.

The only way I can think of is to fork a process and then call the
shell script, as in:
  pid = os.fork()
  if pid == 0:
    os.execl(shellscript_name.sh, "")
but how can I know if the shell script is finished?

In sum, my two questions are:
1.  How can I know if a forked shell script is finished?
2.  How can I run a shell script inside a python script without
forking a new process, so that I can know the shell script is done
from within the same python script?

thanks in advance,

John



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Sep 12 03:41:39 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:41:39 -0700
Subject: Cool & Useful EmPy project, prior art?
References: <du71xunfweg.fsf@mozart.cc.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <3F6178B3.724ABC0D@alcyone.com>

Ville Vainio wrote:

> What I'm planning seems to be a pretty "obvious", universally
> applicable application of empy (perhaps I should file for a patent if
> the EU chooses to shoot itself in the foot? ;-), and am wondering
> whether someone has already done such a beast? Perhaps with a GUI,
> even... I wouldn't mind doing it myself, it seems like a fun project,
> but time == money and something tried & true might already exist out
> there...

That seems quite reasonable, though I'm not familiar with any other
project which does anything similar.  (You can ask on the empy-list
mailing list to be sure.)  It does sound like something that could be
generalized to the point of getting its own unique markup, and which
would invoke behavior that can be overriden by the user -- i.e., a
special markup that says, "This information is needed from the user,
please retrieve it."  It certainly sounds like a reasonable enhancement
proposal that could be made and discussed on the mailing list.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ There is nothing so subject to the inconstancy of fortune as war.
\__/  Miguel de Cervantes



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 29 11:10:44 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:10:44 +0200
Subject: isNumber? check
References: <mailman.1064844761.11275.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bl9i4h$aul$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Rob Hunter wrote:

> How do I check if a value is a number in Python?

>>> isinstance(1+1j, (float,int,long,complex))
True

Peter




From teyc at cognoware.com  Mon Sep  8 14:53:52 2003
From: teyc at cognoware.com (Chui Tey)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:53:52 +1000
Subject: Great work
Message-ID: <3f5cd005$0$6527$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>

Tim,

Well done. We often have trouble trying to convince them that python is not
a "left-field" tool and is suited for mainstream use. The design truely
speaks to these people who feel they will not be fired for buying Microsoft
or Java.

It also speaks to potential developers who see wonderful things are being
done with python.

It doesn't do much for existing developers, and I don't think it is
necessary. When I first started python, python was my browser's home page
and then I pretty much moved away from that as the page is far too static.
You could have a python developers blog aggregator similar to the one at
mechanicalcat.

The most disaffected lot in the newsgroups are
1) those who couldn't tell the difference between an image and html
2) people who replace E with 3 in their vocabulary

Keep this up. Good things will come from it.

Chui






From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Sep 16 11:28:58 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:28:58 -0400
Subject: Datetime utility functions
In-Reply-To: <mr6emv8p5dkckghrr3imk79djtvj3ti0m5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEOOFOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Paul Moore, finding the end of the month]
>> The best solution I could find was
>>
>> def month_end(dt):
>>    # Get the next month
>>    y, m = dt.year, dt.month
>>    if m == 12:
>>        y += 1
>>        m = 1
>>    else:
>>        m += 1
>>
>>    # Use replace to cater for both datetime and date types. This
>>    # leaves the time component of a datetime unchanged - it's
>>    # arguable whether this is the right thing.
>>
>>    return dt.replace(year=y, month=m, day=1) - datetime.timedelta(days=1)

[Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou]
> I sent my own version without having seen your own --and mine might
> seem obfuscated, compared to yours.  Only a minor suggestion: don't
> use dt.replace, use dt.__class__ instead, since you wouldn't want your
> function to have side-effects (that is, don't destroy the actual
> object that dt is bound to.)

It's OK to use replace:  datetime and date (also time and timedelta) objects
are immutable -- their values can't be changed after initialization.  In
particular, x.replace() doesn't mutate x.

>>> import datetime
>>> t = datetime.datetime.today()
>>> t
datetime.datetime(2003, 9, 16, 11, 26, 16, 810000)
>>> t.replace(year=1, month=1, microsecond=42)
datetime.datetime(1, 1, 16, 11, 26, 16, 42)
>>> t	# unchanged
datetime.datetime(2003, 9, 16, 11, 26, 16, 810000)
>>>





From br_y at yahoo.de  Tue Sep  9 05:02:07 2003
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:02:07 +0200
Subject: set built-in func_code?
Message-ID: <bjk4v2$6iv$07$1@news.t-online.com>


Hello newsgroup,

I want to set the built-in func_code in my function, how can I does this in
the correct way?
My books dont tell me anything about this.

TIA, Birgit





From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Sun Sep 21 20:05:15 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:05:15 -0700
Subject: math.exp(complex)
References: <mailman.1064184209.18938.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-9F38C2.17051521092003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1064184209.18938.python-list at python.org>,
 "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

> [Tim]
> >> Math libraries in general can return a better result for exp(x) than
> >> e**x, though, since the latter form uses a machine approximation to e
> >> as the base.
> 
> [David Eppstein]
> > Doesn't look especially different to me, for the numbers I'm currently
> > interested in applying this to (small pure imaginary):
> >
> > >>> from cmath import *
> > >>> exp(1j*pi)
> > (-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)
> > >>> e**(1j*pi)
> > (-1+1.2246467991473532e-16j)
> 
> There are few shortcuts in numerical analysis.  If you want to understand,
> and estimate how bad it *might* get over various input ranges, you'll have
> to do careful analysis of the implementations.  You'll probably find that
> very hard, because the Python implementations build on the platform C's
> sin(), cos(), exp(), atan2(), pow() and hypot(), and few C vendors document
> the accuracy of their implementations -- you don't have the raw material
> then to estimate the accuracy and vulnerable areas of Python's
> implementations.  For that reason, I can't tell you anything that's
> generally true across implementations.  But you need only glance at c_exp in
> cmathmodule.c, and c_pow in compleobject.c, to convince yourself that
> c_exp() has far fewer places it can get into numerical trouble (it's a much
> simpler algorithm).

Ok, thanks for the advice.  Looks like exp is the right choice unless 
there's some strong reason to use powering instead (which there isn't in 
my situation).

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 15 19:56:33 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 01:56:33 +0200
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
References: <mailman.1063135996.15871.python-list@python.org> <bjml1l$fd9$00$1@news.t-online.com> <bk570k$qle$1@flis.man.torun.pl>
Message-ID: <bk5jld$jkc$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Tomasz Lisowski wrote:

>> import sys
>>
>> def getClass(classname, modulename):
>>     try:
>>         module = sys.modules[modulename]
>>     except KeyError:
>>         module = __import__(modulename)
>>     return getattr(module, classname)
> 
> Hmm...
> 
> Why not write it directly:
> 
> def getClass(classname, modulename):
>     try:
>         module = __import__(modulename)
>     except ImportError:
>         return None
>     else:
>         return getattr(module, classname)
> 
> I have heard, that the __import__ function is smart enough to check the
> sys.modules dictionary without actually re-importing the once imported
> module. Is it true?
> 

I think you are right with respect to __import__(). However, it's a bad idea
to catch the import error. Your client code should have determined the
module name beforehand, so that something has gone seriously wrong when you
get an ImportError. Returning None instead of a class only confuses the
issue (nobody wants to go back to the C habit of checking every function's
return value for an errorr code). So:

def getClass(classname, modulename):
    return getattr(__import__(modulename), classname)

would be a shorter equivalent to my getClass(). It seems that a lookup in
sys.modules is done implicitely by __import__(), as I tested it
successfully with "__main__" as the module name.

Note that all three versions will not work with submodules, e. g. "os.path",
so let's change it one more (last?) time:

def getClass(classname, modulename):
    return getattr(__import__(modulename, globals(), locals(), [classname]),
classname)

Peter





From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Sep 26 06:18:41 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:18:41 GMT
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it> <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <5oUcb.124256$hE5.4243917@news1.tin.it>

Peter Hansen wrote:
   ...
> I know this won't meet the standard, but what about a use case
> involving "actually running (as opposed to debugging) possibly
> buggy (non-terminating) code".  This could come up in cases such as
> our embedded Linux product, which is supposed to be a long-running
> process.
> 
> And yes, to make it clear, I am actually suggesting the possibility
> that the product could ship with buggy code that could cause that
> condition.  It does happen in the real world... more often than
> anybody normally cares to admit.  More often with multi-threaded
> applications than is good for anyone, of course.  Sometimes,

Yep.  And even more often, the buggy code will involve race
conditions -- unsynchronized access to variables from >1 thread --
which will make you wail long and loud.  Which is just part of
why using multiple processes, on a platform such as Linux (where
forking a process isn't the end of the world in terms of
performance), is so often preferable to using multiple threads
within a single process: the operating system gives you far better
support for isolating faults, ensuring communication between
processed DOES go "through the channels", terminating errant
processes, and so on, and so forth (as a cherry on top, if you're
on a multi-CPU machine you'll also get to exploit all of your
CPU's, while Python-coded threaded wouldn't do that:-).

I try to limit my multithreaded architectures to VERY simple
structures, based mostly on Queue's for inter-thread cooperation.
Whenever hairy issues emerge -- I try to move to multi-process
architectures instead, at least when I know I will be running
on an OS with decent support for processes.  Admittedly, that
is not _always_ possible (sometimes one does have to run under
Windows, for example, with excellent support for threads but
rather heavy-weight processes); thus, it IS nice to be able to
try and interrupt another thread (it IS just a "try": if the
buggy code is looping forewher within a try/except that just
keeps looping when you interrupt it, you're hosed anyway -- it
still isn't anywhere as solid as a multi-process architecture).
Remember, I was among the *paladins* of the new functionality;-).
However, I do think it's crucial that it be used only as a very
last resort, NOT in the 99.99% of cases which are best covered
by other architectures...


> Yes, I'm reaching somewhat.  Although I actually would like that
> feature, even if it were available it would be quite some time
> before implementing it would be high enough on the list of priorities
> to bother.  And wait!  It _is_ available, just not directly, so I
> can hardly complain. :-)
> 
> Point mostly taken...

Sure, we did end up having the feature -- just a fingerbreadth away
from the average programmer's reach;-).  Anybody who truly really
needs it IS doing stuff much more complicated than average, anyway;-).


Alex




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Sep  2 12:00:58 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:00:58 -0500
Subject: MySQLdb -- any way to get "rows matched"?
In-Reply-To: <fg54lvg2uhicjvl0i9a1vq5h925frjr4gq@4ax.com>
References: <fg54lvg2uhicjvl0i9a1vq5h925frjr4gq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16212.48826.261354.258950@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Chris> When issuing updates in mysql (in the console window), mysql will
    Chris> tell you if any rows matched and how many rows were updated (see
    Chris> below).  I know how to get number of rows udpated using MySQLdb,
    Chris> but is there any way to get the number of rows matched?  

I believe the return value of the cursor's execute() method gives you the
number of rows which matched.

Skip




From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 11 23:39:08 2003
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 20:39:08 -0700
Subject: Computer Programming for Everybody, a Newbie Project
Message-ID: <8e6e8e5d.0309111939.4f1bf1d7@posting.google.com>

As most of you know, the founder and creator of Python has stated an
interest in bringing the joys of computer programming to a wider
audience, and he has coined the phrase "Computer Programming for
Everybody" to sort of sum up this concept. I fit in this category, for
prior to about 3 yrs ago, my programming experience and knowledge was
next-to-none. After 3 yrs of enjoying Python as a hobby in my limited
spare time, I have created a program, which I call askMerlin, that is
simple enough for a newbie to understand, yet interesting and
different.

Having greatly cleaned up the original code, the basic program is now 
a class Decision() that allows one to simply analyze any decision one
needs to make. The other modules are subclasses of Decision() and are
sort of ultra-mini expert systems on how to decide what to eat for
lunch, who to vote for in an election, how to predict who will win a
given basketball game, football game, and how to answer yes or no type
questions. The last two modules apply the same technique but also
utilize the internet to gather data used to analyze and make
decisions.

I think it is a fun little program. Newbies can not only understand
it, but can add simple modules, in any area of their expertise, by
simply subclassing Decision(), or by simply creating an instance of
Decision and over-riding a few key methods, or perhaps more simply by
imitating the functional logic.

OK, that's my spiel. The program can be found at my web site at
http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html

Ron Stephens, humbly-yet-fearlessly-treading-where-he-ought-not-ly-yours

P.S. of course I am still adding to this program, especially the
internet-enabled part, and welcome ideas / contributions from any and
all, especially relative newbies who need a place to start.

P.S.S. to Newbies, the best way to understand this program is just to
run it a few times. It is a command line program, and although I have
cleaned up the code, I also removed for the time being the
documentation and comments, that were becoming unwieldy after three
years of fiddling. I think the code speaks for itself, especially
after you run it a few times and see how it works. And yes, I do
intend to add some simple comments back into the code ;-)))
eventually. Also, I apologize in advance for any indentation errors
anyone has after downloading or cutting and pasting the code; just run
the program and let the Python error messages help you sort out any
formatting or indentation errors you may encounter.

The basic idea is to choose between a few options or alternatives, by
basing your choice on a few good criteria, with each criteria having a
weight, or relative-importance-factor, and then, by various means,
determining a score for each option on each criteria. There, that's
the documentation for now ;-)))

And lastly, yes, I do realize it isn't much to show for three years of
part time work, but hey, I give me A's for persistence.

Ron Stephens



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 02:08:21 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:08:21 +0100
Subject: working png output from graphing modules
References: <983dac9b.0309221905.1960cf02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <faDGhIAVN+b$Ewe0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <983dac9b.0309221905.1960cf02 at posting.google.com>, john
<johnlichtenstein at mac.com> writes
>Are there any charting or graphing modules for python that can write
>PNG, JPEG, or GIF graphics? I have found a couple of nice looking
>packages that can make beautiful postscript, PDF, or SVGs (PyChart and
>ReportLab) but they can't make PNGs, GIFs, or JPEGs. (On my Solaris
>machine with Python 2.2 they don't.) Or are there any simple UNIX
>filters to convert SVG, PDF, or ps files to PNG?
ReportLab certainly makes png/gif/jpeg, but only if you build the
_renderPM extension and also PIL. I know that's possible with solaris 8
as I have done it myself, but haven't done much with later versions.
There's also a requirement to get appropriate T1 font files.
-- 
Robin Becker



From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 15 17:07:22 2003
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 14:07:22 -0700
Subject: Win32 Com + ADO: How to compare the result of a recordset to 'nothing'
References: <tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <57de9986.0309151307.2801b554@posting.google.com>

"Felix McAllister" <felix_mcallister at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500 at news.indigo.ie>...
> Hi,
> When using win32com.client, how do you test for a 'nothing' com object as you can in VB? I have an example here when using ADO to loop over multiple recordsets returned from a query. I get the following error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\dev\python\MySamples\dbtest.py", line 14, in ?
>     rs.MoveFirst()
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 460, in __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: <unknown>.MoveFirst
> 
> I'm assuming that after the result of rs.NextRecordSet is invalid somehow (it shouldn't be, BTW, as a similar loop runs fine in VB). 
> 
> In Perl, I'd just use : if (defined($rs)....
> 
> Any help appreciated,
This is just a guess, but is it anything to do with NextRecordset
returning a tuple (recordset, records affected)?

(Don't think that should end up being wrapped in a
win32com.client.dynamic
wrapper though?)

You could try putting some print statements into
win32com.client.dynamic
to see exactly what you're getting back.

Good luck,
Giles Brown



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Sep  1 09:55:05 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:55:05 -0300 
Subject: Overloading objects
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382E4F@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

In others languages I can do (using sintaxis of Python):


def myMethod (self, name):
	self.name = name

def myMethod (self, name, age):
	self.name = name
	self.age = age


If I'm not wrong, this is "Method Overloading".

I thought using defaults:

def myMethod (self, name, age=None):
	self.name = name
	if age not None:
		self.age = age


but I'm concerned about the scalability of this.

What's the most pythonic way to do this? Using something like *args or
**args?

Thank you!


.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

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From lars_news at larsshack.org  Mon Sep  8 08:40:39 2003
From: lars_news at larsshack.org (Lars Kellogg-Stedman)
Date: 8 Sep 2003 05:40:39 -0700
Subject: MacOS/NeXTStep propert list parsing?
Message-ID: <57f2d810.0309080440.21eae97a@posting.google.com>

Howdy,

I've been trying to find a Python module for parsing the non-XML
PropertList format used in MacOS X (this is what Apple's docs refer to
as "ASCII format" property lists).

I've sound one or two parsers for the XML format, but nothing that
parses the legacy format.  I was hoping someone here had written (or
was aware of) a parser for the older style.

Thanks,

-- Lars



From domma at procoders.net  Mon Sep 22 08:38:57 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:38:57 +0200
Subject: How to catch socket timeout?
References: <bkjpng$v7a$06$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1064178330.17024.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkmqgt$e8c$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Bob Halley" <halley at play-bow.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1064178330.17024.python-list at python.org...
> So, all you need to do is put the socket.timeout except clause before
> any socket.error clause:
>
> try:
>     self.data = self.page.read()
> except socket.timeout: ...
>         except socket.error,e: ...

Thanks, that works fine, but I don't understand why the exception was not
catched in my case. If I write it like this

try:
    self.data = self.page.read()
except socket.error,e: ...
except socket.timeout: ...

the exception should be catched by the socket.error handler. Or am I wrong?
In my case it was not catched at all. Very mysterious from my point of view,
but it works now.

Achim





From mpeuser at web.de  Sat Sep  6 03:26:44 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:26:44 +0200
Subject: I need a little help with Tkinter Entry widget
References: <221e7b06.0309051235.2d5b4868@posting.google.com> <bjb1cp$cer$07$1@news.t-online.com> <221e7b06.0309051816.4b514614@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjc28o$mof$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"Phil Schmidt" <phil_nospam_schmidt at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:221e7b06.0309051816.4b514614 at posting.google.com...
> Oh! Seems obvious when you say it! I've been using the Fredrik Lundh
> documentation, and saw nothing about those. Perhaps I should follow
> the recommendations of other posters and get that book about
> Tkinter...
>

Have alook at New Mexico Tech
http://www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/lang.html
There are two very concise as well as comprehensive documents.

Kndly
Michael P

a.. Python 2.2 programming language quick reference, 46 pp. [HTML]
[PostScript] [PDF]
b.. Tkinter reference: a GUI for Python, 84 pp. [PostScript] [PDF]






From wtrenker at shaw.ca  Fri Sep  5 16:30:58 2003
From: wtrenker at shaw.ca (William Trenker)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 20:30:58 +0000
Subject: in Ram database?
In-Reply-To: <v03110742bb7da1ba2767@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <v03110742bb7da1ba2767@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <20030905203058.179d9630.wtrenker@shaw.ca>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 19:14:05 -0700
"John D." <lists at webcrunchers.com> wrote regarding in Ram database?:

> Does anyone know if there is an "in-ram" dictionary based database
> for Python.   

This may not be quite what you want, but the SQLite embedded SQL engine has an in-memory option.  You would access SQLite using the PySQLite wrapper which is DB-API-2 compliant.  Here are the links:
http://sqlite.org  (download the latest version 2.8.6)
http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net

Cheers,
Bill

Here is a simple example:

import sqlite   #module name exposed by the PySQLite wrapper
conn = sqlite.connect(db=':memory:')   #special connect string to open an in-memory db
cursor = conn.cursor()  #standard DB-API-2 from this point
cursor.execute('create table test (a varchar, b int);')
cursor.execute('commit;') #end PySQLite implicit transaction
cursor.execute('begin transaction;')  #wrap the inserts in an explicit transaction for speed
for i in range(0,10000):
    cursor.execute('insert into test (a,b) values (%s,%i);'%(str(i),i))
cursor.execute('commit;')
cursor.execute('select sum(b) from test;')
print cursor.fetchall()[0][0]




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Sep 16 20:17:42 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:17:42 GMT
Subject: RAD with Python
References: <17d520f6.0309120509.491e4d7c@posting.google.com> <oprvd7fyp7fhfgdd@news.chello.no> <17d520f6.0309130701.222d09fe@posting.google.com> <b8786dc4.0309151332.71907f18@posting.google.com> <17d520f6.0309152035.7e65635b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F917549DDC5JanC@213.118.75.228>

ubaidullahnubar at hotmail.com (Ubaidullah Nubar) schreef:

> I have been working through some wxPython examples. When external
> resources like icons or images are used on a control, is there a way
> to embed it into the freezed executable?

Look at img2py.py in the wxPython/tools directory.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From oblivious at web.de  Fri Sep 26 05:17:25 2003
From: oblivious at web.de (Dominic)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:17:25 +0200
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
In-Reply-To: <3F7347A9.216B8EE@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com> <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com> <noCcb.119695$hE5.4100692@news1.tin.it> <3F731B17.61C17B3A@engcorp.com> <bkvbb5$6mi$00$1@news.t-online.com> <3F7347A9.216B8EE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bl106b$g46$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Dominic wrote:
> 
>>Besides with Pyrex it's 2-4 lines to access
>>PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc from Python :-)
> 
> 
> Posting those 2-4 lines would be helpful to those searching the archives
> at a later date. ;-)

Sure, here they are:

cdef extern int PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(long id, obj)


def interrupt(id, obj):
	PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc(id, obj)


> 
> -Peter




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Sep 23 06:25:28 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:25:28 +0200
Subject: import pickle succeeds only after two tries??
References: <1064307542.783575@blaat.sara.nl>
Message-ID: <bkp74p$4n6$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Bram Stolk wrote:

> I am using python-2.2.2 on linux-ARM.
> Python itself works OK.
> However, importing pickle gives me *very* strange results:
> 
> The first 'import pickle' fails with "ImportError: No module named
> StringIO" If I immediately do a second 'import pickle', it works????

The first import puts the module into sys.modules, then executes it.
I execution succeds, the module object is assigned to a variable in the
current global namespace, if it fails, no such assignment is performed.

The second import tries to find the module in sys.modules, finds it and
therefore does not execute it again.

The effects are strange, for example:

--- test.py ---
def alpha():
    pass

print unknown

def beta():
    pass
--- end test.py ---

>>> import test
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "test.py", line 5, in ?
    print unknown
NameError: name 'unknown' is not defined
>>> import test
>>> dir(test)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'alpha']
>>>

Note that beta() is missing while alpha() is there. I doubt that this
behaviour is intentional.

Peter





From ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn  Thu Sep 11 05:16:28 2003
From: ulysses_dm at yahoo.com.cn (ulysses)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 02:16:28 -0700
Subject: ANN: PyQt v3.8 Released
References: <mailman.1061147189.23632.python-list@python.org> <fc30bff.0308171759.7c4c564@posting.google.com> <mailman.1061196870.3067.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <43e3984e.0309110116.18b9d065@posting.google.com>

Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1061196870.3067.python-list at python.org>...
> On Monday 18 August 2003 2:59 am, John Taylor wrote:
> > Phil,
> >
> > Does PyQT support the ability to minimize an app to the lower right
> > tray, next to the clock?  If so, could you please post some example
> > code?
> 
> What platform?
> 
> If you mean Windows then QApplication.winEventFilter() and QWidget.winEvent() 
> were added to PyQt v3.4 at the specific request of somebody who wanted to do 
> this. Sorry, but I don't have example code.
> 
> Phil


I find QT have a trayicon example in C++, I study it. But I can't 
convert it to python . Can you give some advice. Thanks.



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Sep 30 15:19:04 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:19:04 +0200
Subject: where are the "class variables"?
In-Reply-To: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com>
References: <62e9c66e.0309301057.65f24a3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030930191904.GA6988@nl.linux.org>

Dominik Kaspar wrote:
> i'm used to java and its strict way of defining variables. so how is
> it possible to reach something like a class variable in python?
> with the following code i didn't have much succes...
> 
> class Server(threading.Thread):
>     running = 0  (??)
>         
>     def run(self):
>         running = 1
>         while running:
>             print "do something here..."
> 
>     def exit(self):
>         running = 0

This is where self is for: self.running refers to the class
variable 'running'.

Gerrit.

-- 
249. If any one hire an ox, and God strike it that it die, the man who
hired it shall swear by God and be considered guiltless.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Sep  8 16:38:34 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:38:34 -0500
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org>
        <bjibik$g3n$1@panix3.panix.com>
        <3F5CD10B.2020709@teksavvy.com>
        <200309072018.05589.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
Message-ID: <16220.59594.270770.188253@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Dave> I don't know of any problem with tinyurls - *any* server can
    Dave> provide a "bad" redirect; as with any URL whether or not you
    Dave> follow it depends on the context and on how much you trust the
    Dave> sender.

The only other reasons I could think of to object to tiny urls are:

* Perhaps the tinyurl folks are not trustworthy (are they keeping track of
  your browsing habits and selling that info?).  That seems unlikely, since
  they don't appear to be storing cookies in my browser.

* The tinyurl website can become a bottleneck, preventing people from
  getting where they want to go.  The tinyurl.com website seems to be fairly
  unreachable for me at the moment, though this is the first time I've seen
  this, and it appears to be a problem more with Northwestern's connection
  to the net than tinyurl.com's.

* There's no guarantee tiny urls will remain unique or even available for
  long periods of time.  Their current practice of using four lower-case
  letters suggests they have space for about 450,000 unique URLs before
  extending to a fifth letter.

Skip




From fuerte at sci.fi  Mon Sep  8 15:39:20 2003
From: fuerte at sci.fi (Harri Pesonen)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:39:20 +0300
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
In-Reply-To: <vlpeq9jko1l6b0@news.supernews.com>
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com> <qpOW/ks/KnRV089yn@the-wire.com> <vlhtm1bmc7m295@news.supernews.com> <fc08a59c.0309060830.623d31c7@posting.google.com> <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874@reader1.news.jippii.net> <3f5a2260$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410@reader1.news.jippii.net> <vlpeq9jko1l6b0@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7T47b.4753$ZB4.113@reader1.news.jippii.net>

John Roth wrote:

> "Harri Pesonen" <fuerte at sci.fi> wrote in message
> news:TRr6b.4056$ZB4.1410 at reader1.news.jippii.net...
> 
>>Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>>In article <Ucp6b.3992$ZB4.3874 at reader1.news.jippii.net>, Harri Pesonen
> 
>>>>I agree, it's not logical. I'm learning Python at the moment, and like
>>>>it very much. This "self" thing seems to be the only odd feature,
>>>
>>>It seemed quite natural to me, but perhaps that's because I'd
>>>used other languages that worked the same way.  Coming from
>>>Modula-3 and Smalltalk, the way classes worked in Python seemed
>>>quite intuitive.
>>>
>>>OTOH, C++ seems like a real non-intuitive mess to me.
>>>
>>>>it feels like the whole class feature was added later.
>>>
>>>Why?
>>
>>Because everything else in Python seems to be very compact, there are no
>>variable type declarations, or variable declarations, or anything else
>>unnecessary that can be omitted. I would like to have self omitted, it
>>would make the class syntax more beautiful and compact. On the other
>>hand, I would like to have real private methods.
>>
>>Also I think that the class members should be explicitly declared. In
>>general, it would be nice to have an option (like Option Explicit in
>>Visual Basic) so that you can't assign to variables that have not been
>>declared. It would probably make Python less error prone.
> 
> I believe that is what __slots__ is for. That's run time rather than
> compile time, but at least it gives you the error on the statement
> that attempts to do an invalid assignment.

Thanks guys, I hadn't heard of __slots__ before. Perhaps I am reading a 
too old book. Of course, a compile time check would be better...

>>Also if
>>variable declarations could have the type, again some errors could be
>>detected at compile time.
> 
> It's quite possible to add run time type checking to Python, at a
> significant cost in performance. See the descriptors material.

I think that Python already has run time type checking. It does not 
allow "a" + 1, for example.

> There's been quite a bit of work on a compile time type checking
> system over the years, but it has never resulted in a proposal that could
> be agreed on.

It would be quite simple to have "option explicit" like in Visual Basic, 
I believe. Like the following:

option explicit
var a = "asdf"
b = 1 # error at compile time
a = 123
(var b, var c, var d) = (1, 2, 3)
e = "asdf" # error at compile time

Always have "var" keyword before first assignment. Just a proposal. You 
don't need __slots__ (which sounds like a hack):

class A(object):
	var a, var b, var c
	# instead of __slots__ = ['a', 'b', 'c']

foo = A()
foo.a = 1
foo.b = 2
foo.c = 3
foo.d = 4 # error at compile time

> My own personal opinion is that I like the type check system in
> the ML family of languages: it stays out of your way unless you need it.
> How that would fit in Python is another question, though.
> At this time, it looks like an issue for Python 3.0, which seems to
> keep receeding into the distance.

I think that the type checking is not so important, but you could have 
it as well:

var a as str = "asdf"
var b as int = 123
var c as float = 123.4
a = 123 # error at compile time
# also at run time if not detected earlier
var d = "asdf"
d = 123 # ok, because no type was defined

Harri




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Sep 24 17:31:20 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:31:20 -0400
Subject: sending thread exceptions (was Re: RELEASED Python 2.3.1)
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <3F71B857.2D1E3268@engcorp.com> <Xns9400E70CB6F9Fcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3F720759.34D7BD3E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F720D28.83C3E99@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote re:
> > > PyThreadState_SetAsyncEnc
> Is this function available in a DLL somewhere?  I can't find even
> a single reference to that name anywhere in the Python23 directory
> tree on Win32 after a fresh install.

Skip that question....of course, python23.dll goes into c:\windows\system
so it wasn't where I was searching...

I'd still be very interested in examples of use through ctypes (with
which I'm not yet familiar).

Alex' slides were interesting, but I think they might reflect a subtle
trend away from Python's traditional treatment of programmers as
consenting adults, with all the concern about newbies and the hints
that such a dangerous feature will be abused to no end.

The slides also suggest that there are almost no use cases whatsoever 
for such a feature, though admitting there might, just barely, be enough
to merit adding it as a non-newbie C-only API which one has to jump
through hoops (or use ctypes :-) to access.  

I can think of several use cases right off the top of my head, one 
of them being while running automated unit and acceptance tests, 
to ensure that a test involving threads will complete (generally 
with a failure in this case) even if the code is broken and the 
thread cannot be terminated.

-Peter



From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Thu Sep  4 12:53:08 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 18:53:08 +0200
Subject: basic language question
References: <bj7ots$48j$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bj7pft$ofl$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <bj7qil$1vs$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:

> Stephan Diehl wrote:
>> Once in a while, I get bitten by the fact, that mutating list methods
>> such as 'append' or 'extend' return None instead of the (mutated)
>> list itself. Is there a compelling reason for that? I googled around,
>> but didn't find anything about this.
>> Thanks
>>
>> Stephan
> 
> The reasons described for sort ()
>
<http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general.html#why-doesn-t-list-sort-return-the
> -sorted-list> also apply to append and extend.

Thanks for the link. I don't find the given reason really compelling,
though. (but that's mine, not your problem)

> 
> Daniel

Stephan




From dave at 3dex.com  Wed Sep 10 15:02:24 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:02:24 GMT
Subject: Problems with setting up mod_python and Apache
References: <3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4zK7b.11532$NW3.6643@news1.central.cox.net>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message
news:3f5f6b41$0$239$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> I have set up httpd.conf according to installation and configuration
> instructions in the mod_python documentation. Yet when I enter the
following
> URL http://localhost/test.py all I get is an Apache view of my htdocs
> directory. They if I click on test.py and open file dialog pops up. If I
> give the file a cgi extension and enter the following URL
> http://locathost/test.cgi it runs fine.  I just can't figure out what I am
> doing wrong.

Sounds like a configuration problem. Can you post the relevant lines from
your httpd.conf file? Are you trying to write handlers or are you using the
publisher module?

Dave





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Sep 12 15:50:21 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:50:21 -0500
Subject: why is this failing?
In-Reply-To: <87ad9am70z.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <9x58b.139$u07.2@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>
        <3F60E645.2501B9EE@engcorp.com>
        <3f60ea13$0$42053$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
        <87llsu6hij.fsf@pobox.com>
        <3F611490.23E27E1B@alcyone.com>
        <87ad9am70z.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16226.9085.306930.156474@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John> Just to check (I'm using a patched version, so it's a bit of a
    John> pain to switch): the latest versions from the python-mode SF
    John> project highlight builtins like "len" and "list", not just
    John> keywords like "print"?

I'm running 4.38.  Here are the keywords it knows about:

    "and"      "assert"   "break"   "class"
    "continue" "def"      "del"     "elif"
    "else"     "except"   "exec"    "for"
    "from"     "global"   "if"      "import"
    "in"       "is"       "lambda"  "not"
    "or"       "pass"     "print"   "raise"
    "return"   "while"    "yield"

So, no, the builtins are not colored, just the keywords.  You could easily
extend the list though.

Skip





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep  8 08:43:05 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 06:43:05 -0600
Subject: Read file that starts with '\xff\xfe'
In-Reply-To: <3F5C7270.1020001@ghaering.de>
References: <bjgf10$d5s$0@216.39.172.122>
 <3F5BD4DD.57D90AF5@alcyone.com>
 <bjgs8l$6d0$0@216.39.172.122>
 <3F5BFC19.D098115B@alcyone.com>
 <6.0.0.22.0.20030908054530.03c42dd8@66.28.54.253>
 <3F5C7270.1020001@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030908063849.03c99d78@66.28.54.253>

At 06:13 AM 9/8/2003, Gerhard H?ring wrote:

>Bob Gailer wrote:
>>On Win 2K the Task Scheduler writes a log file that appears to be 
>>encoded. The first line is:
>>'\xff\xfe"\x00T\x00a\x00s\x00k\x00 
>>\x00S\x00c\x00h\x00e\x00d\x00u\x00l\x00e\x00r\x00 
>>\x00S\x00e\x00r\x00v\x00i\x00c\x00e\x00"\x00\r\x00\n'
>
>I wrote that into a file, and used the 'file' utility from Cygwin, which 
>tells me:
>
>$ file t
>t: Little-endian UTF-16 Unicode character data, with CR line terminators

That's a good start. I presume I need to use codecs.open(filename, mode[, 
encoding[, errors[, buffering]]]) to read the file. What is the actual 
value of the "encoding[" parameter for "Little-endian UTF-16 Unicode 
character data, with CR line terminators"

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

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From rhunter007 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 16 16:24:30 2003
From: rhunter007 at yahoo.com (Rob Hunter)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there "let binding" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <8D8126DA-E882-11D7-973E-003065F081D2@zephyrfalcon.org>
Message-ID: <20030916202430.56387.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com>

> 
> > Well, yeah.  And that's a good thing, right? 
> I
> > mean, perhaps not in general, but certainly
> in
> > this case I think everyone can agree that it
> is
> > *assignment* which creates the confusing
> issue of
> > all buttons being named 10.
> 
> Depends on how you look at it:
> 
> [Jeff's example code]
> def make_stupid_gui():
>      t = Tk()
>      for i in range(10):
>          b = Button(t, text="Button #%d" % i,
>              command=lambda: button_func(i))
>          b.pack()
> make_stupid_gui()
> 
> The reason that you get surprising results, is
> that the i in 
> button_func(i) isn't evaluated until that piece
> of code is actually 
> called.  When it's called, it looks at the
> value that i has *at that 
> moment*.  The value it had when the button and
> the lambda were created, 
> is not stored anywhere, so it cannot be used. 


I don't *think* that's correct (though I could be
wrong).  What you're describing is "dynamic
scoping".  That's where the body of a function
(or code block in this case) isn't evaluated
until it is used.  And thus, free variables in
the body assume whatever values their calling
environment has.  Dynamic scoping is a bad thing.
 So bad, in fact, that lisp added (at least the
option of, I think) static scoping, Scheme
exclusively uses static scoping, and that Python
corrected their mistake (it used to be
dynamically scoped).

But anyway, from my tests, and from what I've
read, Python has static scoping, but what
assignment allows you to do is violate, in a way,
this static scoping, which is what we see here.

Rob

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Sep 29 10:56:03 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Sep 2003 15:56:03 +0100
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.2
References: <mailman.1064594507.31702.python-list@python.org> <EBkdb.3354$hp5.1305@fed1read04> <ToKdb.9$t44.805@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <87lls73apo.fsf@pobox.com>

"Peter Milliken" <peterm at resmed.com.au> writes:
[...]
> One nice thing that has happened is it has led me to the Optik package
[...]

Optik is now in 2.3 standard library, renamed as the optparse module.


John



From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Sat Sep 27 16:20:58 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:20:58 +0100
Subject: Slice inconsistency?
References: <10c662fe.0309261245.1f35f43a@posting.google.com> <IKScnUNBOsX4MumiU-KYgA@comcast.com> <bqeanvgel9ra3va44j090bmn2l126t340g@4ax.com> <10c662fe.0309270545.1fd5d839@posting.google.com> <7tidnd_LS5ElWOiiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <combnv8hpr0agl0ij5ihrdvk3p4b10vs6e@4ax.com> <vnbr4m26qi8q1b@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <qvrbnvgg5ji3sih8svd8i60dvhfbrs9nmi@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:00:39 -0400, "John Roth"
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>So you're basically passing something to __getitem__()
>that nobody thought about, and expecting it to work.
>It sounds like something I might like to use some day
>myself, but it's not going to suddenly appear by magic.
>
>Submit a PEP.

For what? - new style classes already do what I (and apparently
Roberto) would expect. I don't care if old style classes act in a
backward-compatible rather than idealistic way - that is what old
style classes are for.

All Roberto needs to do is make his class a subclass of object and it
will do exactly what he needs - somebody did think about it and that
PEP has apparently already been submitted and implemented a long time
ago.


-- 
Steve Horne

steve at ninereeds dot fsnet dot co dot uk



From rparnes at megalink.net  Thu Sep 11 22:02:37 2003
From: rparnes at megalink.net (Bob Parnes)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:02:37 -0000
Subject: Trouble Learning Zope
References: <slrnblvhla.575.rparnes@fruitbowl.localdomain> <3F5FCD3A.ACB83234@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbm29uf.54o.rparnes@fruitbowl.localdomain>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:17:46 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Bob Parnes wrote:
>> 
>> I just installed zope, version 2.6.1-10 on a debian distribution, but I
>> cannot get to second base. When I try to add the tutorial to a folder, I
>> get an error message stating that an emergency user cannot own an
>> object. So I clicked onto the help page and found the tutorial there.
>> But I got the same error when I tried to follow it. Then I created a new
>> user account and restarted zope. But it would not accept a login as the
>> new user, only as the original, 'emergency' user. As things stand, I can
>> bring up zope on my browser but cannot do anything in it.
>> 
>> What can I do to straighten things out. Thanks for any help.
> 
> 1. When you create the new user, make sure you've set it up for "manager"
> privileges.
> 
> 2. Subscribe to the zope mailing list, as this newsgroup does relatively
> little support for Zope while the mailing list is the place to be...
> (see the Zope web site to subscribe).
> 
> -Peter

Thanks, I'll do that.

-- 
Bob Parnes
rparnes at megalink.net



From kern at taliesen.caltech.edu  Mon Sep  1 01:50:21 2003
From: kern at taliesen.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 05:50:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <biummt$7f4$1@naig.caltech.edu>

In article <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA at comcast.com>,
	"Daniel R. Smorey Jr." <smory at ptdprolog.net> writes:
> I'm looking for a good place for Python documentation.  I'm really lost 
> on why it's so hard to find anything when it comes to me looking up a 
> particular function in Python.  My example would be the split() function 
> of the string module.  Why can't I just go to www.python.org and click 
> on Search and then type in split and it bring me to the split() function 
> of the string module? 

Well, since you know which module the function is in, you can go to the
documentation page, look up string in the Global Module Index and find
split(). Only a few more clicks.

Or, even easier, you can fire up the interpreter, and do the following:

>>> import string
>>> help(string.split)

Or, on the commandline, type

pydoc string.split

> Why does it have to be so hard?  This is what I 
> get when I search for split on www.python.org...
> 
> http://search.python.org/query.html?qt=split&col=ftp&col=python&col=peps&col=starship
> 
> Most of those hits are for the re module, not the string module (which 
> in my opinion should be part of python and not a module, but I digress). 

Most of them are since 2.0. Check out string methods.

http://python.org/doc/current/lib/string-methods.html

>   Why would it not bring up the split function of the string module 
> first and foremost?

Because no one has asked for it to do so before? Because the unpaid
volunteers with limited time who run the site don't need the feature
themselves and never realized that others might want it? Because the
string method and re function split() are equally good or better options
to return first?

Although I agree that there should be a checkbox option to search only
the current docs.

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From mack at incise.org  Tue Sep 23 19:57:03 2003
From: mack at incise.org (Nick Welch)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:57:03 -0500
Subject: How to tell if a forked process is done?
In-Reply-To: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
References: <879b6a51.0309231547.428214f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030923235703.GB5048@incise.org>

You can just do os.system("some command"), it will block until the shell
command is done, and return the exit code.  If you need more control,
perhaps look into the popen2 module and the Popen3/4 classes inside it.

-- 
Nick Welch aka mackstann | mack @ incise.org | http://incise.org
Help stamp out and abolish redundancy.




From simonb at webone.com.au  Mon Sep 29 20:15:24 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:15:24 +1000
Subject: Wavelet package available?
References: <2ceb70f8.0309290136.118a856d@posting.google.com> <z4adnU-lwpqa1eWiU-KYjA@comcast.com> <bla6kk$mps$1@reader10.wxs.nl>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.30.00.15.23.234142@webone.com.au>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:03:44 +0200, gez wrote:

> Why this stupid answer? I tried to find python in combination with wavelets,
> both in the normal Google search engine and the Google groups search. Also
> jpython/jython, etc. but non of the results was what I wanted to use. So,
> that is why I posted it here. Think this is exacly the place to be...
> 

Yeah. I remember the last wavelets post on c.l.py, not that long ago, and
no one had any thing to say. I am interested in python as a matlab 
(maple, gap etc.) killer - more math stuff anyway..

Anyway, if you know of a nice C wavelet lib, it should only take a few 
days to wrap - maybe i can help. I'm also keen to try pyrex on something.

Simon Burton.





From $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk  Wed Sep 10 14:04:40 2003
From: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:04:40 +0100
Subject: Pass-by-reference : Could a C#-like approach work in Python?
References: <4l7ulv4h3ik4bt3rj5kohgm7gfq5pruo1t@4ax.com> <3f5f3667$1@news.highway1.com.au>
Message-ID: <capulv8usaq45e8rdu09q52jsl5t0167nj@4ax.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:39:23 +0800, Tim Hoffman <timh at zute.net> wrote:

>Hi Stephen
>
>The bit I can't fathom is why you would want to do this ?
>At least in the case of the simple example you give.

It wasn't intended as a real world example - it was only intended to
illustrate what I want to be able to do.

>When you call inc function you are taking an immutable object 1 and 
>creating a new object which is the result of adding 1 to 1. And what you 
>are then asking it to rebind the variable x to point to the new int 
>object 2 inside the function.

Yes - that is exactly it. To rebind the callers variable/whatever that
supplied the parameter from within the function.

>Why you would want to do this is unclear. Secondly if it where a more 
>abstract object it would have an increment method which you could call 
>on the object which was passed to the function.

No, you are taking the noddy example too literally.

For a more realistic (but still simplified) example, see my reply to
Peter Ottens post.




From achrist at easystreet.com  Fri Sep  5 18:16:31 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:16:31 -0700
Subject: newbie question on which win32 GUI to choose
References: <vm8glv03htv3cgq05dr2trra0q4r4k298c@4ax.com>
		<vlgs65mifq5i38@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1062788290.24102.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F590B3F.35A7B5E6@easystreet.com>

John Hunter wrote:
> 
>     Cameron> experience inclines me to the former.  I've found pyGTK
>     Cameron> too immature under Win*.  The people who claim success
>     Cameron> with it are, from what I can tell, those who benefit from
>     Cameron> consider- able prior GTK+ work.  --
> 
> I haven't found this.  I've written two applications in pygtk2 ...


Are there any downloadable pygtk2 apps that are a good demo, ie
non-esoteric showoff apps that I can download and run under Windows
to see how it runs on my machine?


Al



From Dick.Zantow at lexisnexis.com  Tue Sep  9 14:28:19 2003
From: Dick.Zantow at lexisnexis.com (rzed)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:28:19 -0400
Subject: Comments on Python Redesign
References: <mailman.1062969251.5905.python-list@python.org> <qU9W/kKkXURB092yn@gnosis.cx> <ZZ9W/kKkXkJT092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1062993191.23216.python-list@python.org> <m3smn772ka.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org> <e9570f37.0309090911.20b78f61@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bjl64i$9kg$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com>

Graham Fawcett wrote:
> Nick Vargish <nav+posts at bandersnatch.org> wrote in message
> news:<m3smn772ka.fsf at tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>...
>> I really like the idea of the PSF selling boxed python distros for
>> around $300. People who make the business decisions _like_ spending
>> money on a product -- it's somehow comforting to them. Include
>> bound copies of the Tutorial and Library Reference, to give the
>> box some weight and make it clear that they are paying for
>> something more than a CD of "free software". (Spiral bound
>> documents, please!)
>>
>> I'm hoping that my boss will be shelling out for some Komodo Pro
>> licenses, partly for the above reason. The other part of the
>> reason is that once money is spent on something, it becomes more
>> entrenched in an organization. This will serve to counter the PHB
>> attitude that "if it costs nothing to bring in, it will cost
>> nothing to throw out."
>
> We bought Komodo licences for the same reason. ActiveState has been
> a great friend to us, though we've never been introduced; they
> certainly deserve a few bucks. And yes, I'd get our dept. to
> purchase PSF distros as well for the same reason.
>
> Lulu, if you're reading this: if you manage to sell any Gnosis boxed
> sets, would you mind sending me a little share, in thanks for coming
> up with the idea? I need a new canoe myself. ;-)
>
> -- Graham


Speaking of actual value-added products, one thing I'd pay for would
be packaged CDs containing not only the base Python distro, but also
other packages (like pygame, wxPython, Boa Constructor, etc.) -- all
of the *right* version to work with that version of Python. It would
make initially loading a clean machine simpler (especially for those
of us with slow modems) than downloading the many packages
individually and trying to assure version compatibility. The result
would be a useful set of CDs that would be worth hanging onto. Over
time, after many upgrades, it might seem pointless to keep old
versions, until that one package shows up that requires an environment
from three releases back.

I have no idea how the licensing would work on such a thing, but it
would seem worthwhile for the Python community to figure out how to
make it work.

--
rzed





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Sep  4 09:19:05 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 09:19:05 -0400
Subject: Threading and Sockets Problem
References: <db98300b.0308241637.7005d490@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj7e49$3i$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <db98300b.0308241637.7005d490 at posting.google.com>,
Chris <chrisahlers at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>For some reason, I can only connect to my server once. After that, I
>keep getting 'connection refused 111' messages).

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-August/062410.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Sep 16 15:40:29 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 21:40:29 +0200
Subject: distutils on win32 with link.exe -- use dlls?
References: <mailman.1063735042.3212.python-list@python.org> <u65jssiml.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93F8DC80D7DDEcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in news:u65jssiml.fsf at fitlinxx.com:

> John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:
> 
>> Is there a macro or compile flag or other setting to inform distutils
>> to look for the DLLS of the required libraries rather than the *.lib
>> files?
> 
> Under Windows, even if your resultant binary is going to use DLLs, you
> need to link against the export libraries provided for those DLLs.
> The export libraries only contain the external entry points into the
> DLLs and a reference to the DLL, but they are still separate .lib
> files that are necessary to build code to run against the DLLs.  Thus,
> anyone who provides DLLs for other source to use should also be
> providing the matching .libs (or if you are building the DLLs from
> source, the build process should also create matching .lib files).

the current gcc in cygwin/mingw can link directly against DLLs (it creates 
the imp lib on the fly) one reason more to use free software ;-)

chris


-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep 15 14:00:56 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:56 -0400
Subject: Finally found a use for lambda!
References: <roy-FFBAC5.22283914092003@reader2.panix.com> <d2f38965.0309150133.4aef2253@posting.google.com> <840592e1.0309150557.37661282@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F65FE58.AEF95A13@engcorp.com>

Hannu Kankaanp?? wrote:
> 
> follower at iname.com (Follower) wrote in message news:<d2f38965.0309150133.4aef2253 at posting.google.com>...
> > > Of course, now that I think about it, I could have also written:
> > >         self.assertEqual (foo.has_key ('bar')), 0)
> >
> > ObMinimalism attempt:
> >
> >       self.failIf(foo.has_key('bar'))
> 
> That's not really minimalism (ObMinimalism=Obfuscation Minimalism?
> That even less!). That is actually The way to do it. You can just
> read it out loud and it makes sense immediately.

Some folks prefer to stick with the positive logic (assert X) 
always, rather than risk confusion by mixing and matching in an
arbitrary manner.

Personally, I couldn't keep the negative logic of the "fail X"
style straight and had to give it up.

-Peter



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep  1 10:42:41 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 16:42:41 +0200
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <3f5357a0$0$32519$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
	<Xns93E975FCE1E58godlarz@62.243.74.162>
	<vl6dmm8jutl140@corp.supernews.com>
	<3f533f3d$0$32467$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
	<vl6ichsnqa7dfa@corp.supernews.com>
	<3f5357a0$0$32519$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <3F535AE1.9010403@ghaering.de>

Dan Thrue wrote:
> No i wont judge anything a failure in this community :) To say it 
> shortly, the wiki doesnt actually fill my requirements.

I actually find the PHP approach of being able to attach user comments 
to doc pages useful. I try to stay clear from PHP ;-), but I do use it 
in the PostgreSQL interactive documentation:

Here's an example: 
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/interactive/ddl-alter.html#AEN1984

I find it's a good way to add notes about what's not clear and what 
information is wrong or lacking to the docs. Certainly an easier 
approach than to file a bug report or a doc patch for the Python docs at 
Sourceforge.

The PostgreSQL docs are created from SGML, while the Python docs are 
created from a LaTeX subset, so I don't know if there's any solution 
that could easily be set up for the Python documentation. I'd like to 
see it implemented, though. [1]

-- Gerhard

[1] If nothing else, I could then add "does anybody actually directly 
use this cra^wmodule?" to the page for ftplib <0.1 wink>




From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Sep  2 18:10:02 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:10:02 -0400
Subject: Python REST framework?
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0309021352.1da1ecd9@posting.google.com>; from hwlgw@hotmail.com on Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 02:52:05PM -0700
References: <mailman.1062527045.25841.python-list@python.org> <cb035744.0309021352.1da1ecd9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030902181002.B9745@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 02:52:05PM -0700, Will Stuyvesant wrote:
> > [Jeremy Jones]
> > Does anyone know if there exists a Python REST (web services) framework?
> > I've googled and come up short.  I don't think it should be that hard to 
> > do ...
> 
> I'm interested.  But I have been looking at the discussion on the rest
> mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rest-discuss/ and it
> seems they haven't found a solution for the user:password thing yet. 
> Using SSL is a must, but then what?  Create some unguessable URI? 
> That is not safe enough for banking applications etc.  And using
> lowlevel http stuff is also being frowned upon.
> 
> Consider creating a multiuser web-based game in a RESTful way, where
> players can use a password to get access to their avatar.  I haven't
> figured out yet how to do such a thing according to REST, using Python
> Standard Library modules.

Practicality beats purity, if the only piece of state you keep is 
"this guy is logged in and he authenticated as 'Bob'" then you still
get 99.99% of the cleanliness of REST.  If the workarounds to make
it 100% REST-ful actually make the solution harder to use and implement
then I'll gladly be [a little bit] non REST-ty.

The point of REST is to make things easier to do and cleaner to
understand, not just so you can name drop "REST", right?

-jackdied





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Sep  8 13:22:00 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:22:00 -0400
Subject: Get the date of last modification of a file
References: <rE27b.45940$R32.1458201@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F5CBAB8.F8888E3@engcorp.com>

Manuel Bastioni wrote:
> 
> It's possible using only a built-in module?

os.path.getmtime()



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Fri Sep 26 00:34:44 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:34:44 +1200
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130364ACE8@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AF65@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

>   * None of the standard command shells (CMD or COMMAND) will 
> accept forward slashes.  Even the "cd ./tmp" example given in 
> a previous post fails.

Not true:

"""
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>cd /spambayes

C:\spambayes>cd ./spambayes

C:\spambayes\spambayes>
"""

This is with cmd.exe in XP (as above).  command.exe does try and use it as a
switch.  I have no idea about older versions, nor do I care <wink>.

=Tony Meyer





From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Fri Sep  5 22:52:54 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 22:52:54 -0400
Subject: OT: Americans love their guns
References: <vkm8j0a086acd0@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1061927168.7845.python-list@python.org> <c60rkvkpog2jabqkvbiaqnjm35vuf0iabk@4ax.com> <mailman.1062051665.5511.python-list@python.org> <l0nskvk7d2uptngokjl4al0bjqueielk2g@4ax.com> <mailman.1062103458.11215.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3k78m8w6x.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:

> And should you be mugged on the street by a stranger, your chance of
> walking away dead (rather than just with less money), are MANY times
> higher if you pull a gun on your assailant.

Just to contribute to the topic drift...

I was mugged at gunpoint in the early 90's. I complied with my
nervous-seeming assailant and even helped him get my watchband
unbuckled. The police officer I talked to later said, "Good thing, or
I might be filing my report from the morgue."

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From mwh at python.net  Wed Sep  3 07:24:26 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:24:26 GMT
Subject: Compiler C or Python?
References: <20030826213316.GA7285@unpythonic.net> <mailman.1062498963.22409.python-list@python.org> <7h3vfsbh1bg.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1062535627.12329.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h38yp6glt2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

jhf at hex.no (J?rgen Hermanrud Fjeld) writes:

> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:37:03AM +0000, Michael Hudson wrote:
> > jhf at hex.no (J?rgen Hermanrud Fjeld) writes:
> > > And in general, if should want to alter the Python compiler, should
> > > I start with the Python or C version?
> > 
> > Whichever's easiest :-)  This is usually the Python one.
> >
> Then I shall start with that one. Are there any other arguments/reasons to
> choose one or the other? That is technicalities one should consider.

I don't think so.  The code they produce is essentially identical,
AFAIK (the only difference I'm aware of is the ordering of the
constants in co_consts -- hardly critical).

Oh, Raymond Hettinger added some bytecode rewriting steps to the C
compiler in 2.3.  I don't think Lib/compiler does these.

For *very* simple tweaks I sometimes find Python/compile.c easier to
work with, but that's probably because Python/compile.c is a hunk of
procedural C code I've worked with a fair bit and Lib/compiler is an
OOP-y framework-y hunk of code I don't quite understand.  Someone
starting from scratch is unlikely to find this.

Obviously, Python/compile.c gets more testing, and probably has fewer
bugs.

> > > As far as I can see from your email the Python version is easier to
> > > modify, but why two compilers? Isn't that a lot to maintain?
> > 
> > The Lib/compiler/ package is pretty slow.  Also, making that the only
> > compiler might lead to irritating bootstrapping problems (which I now
> > see Jeff talked about...).
> Yes, but the code it generates will be fast enough for my purposes.

Oh yes, the compiled code runs at the same speed.

> Do you happen to know how consistency between the compilers is
> maintained?

Blood and toil :-/

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I have long since given up dealing with people who hold idiotic
  opinions as if they had arrived at them through thinking about
  them.                                 -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep 11 16:00:23 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:00:23 -0400
Subject: os.listdir
References: <HKYJXJ$IJtpKVwktIN8kOKo8RPo0eClW9NoSa2aMVXNcWgZA4d1srKaVwlRm@bol.com.br> <mailman.1063171515.17609.python-list@python.org> <bjq102$m21$03$1@news.t-online.com> <Xns93F3A4DD43D3Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <wSmdnYp3_9zFSf2iU-KYvA@comcast.com>

"Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> In C Python, all dictionaries have an initial size of 8 elements.
There is
> no way to override this (except recompiling!)

In you initialize a dict from a list of, say, 1000 (key,value) pairs,
does it really disregard list size?  at least after first 2/3rds
fillup?

Terry





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Sep 27 18:15:02 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:15:02 -0700
Subject: ANN: fauxident 1.2 -- A simple, faked ident daemon
Message-ID: <3F760BE6.54AC64B2@alcyone.com>

Summary

    A simple, faked ident daemon.


Overview

    fauxident is a small Python script that will act as an extremely
    naive ident server, answering all ident requests with a consistent
    response -- either an ERROR or a USERID response.  This can be
    advantageous on systems where running a true identd is
    unavailable, where it would be a security risk, or when
    masquerading firewalls are in use, where multiple machines are
    involved behind the firewall and running a proper ident system is
    not an option.


Getting the software

    The current version of fauxident is 1.2.

    The latest version of the software is available in a tarball here:
    http://www.alcyone.com/software/fauxident/fauxident-latest.tar.gz.

    The official URL for this Web site is
    http://www.alcyone.com/software/fauxident/.


Requirements

    fauxident requires Python 2.x or greater and a Unix or Unix-like
    operating system.


License

    This code is released under the GPL.


...

Release history [since 1.1]

    - 1.2; 2003 Sep 27.  Add -m option to permute user names in
      responses.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We're here to preserve democracy, not to practice it.
\__/  Capt. Frank Rasmey



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep 23 12:32:27 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:32:27 -0400
Subject: Executing a python script from an HTML link?
References: <tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <vn0tdkg96jlcc7@news.supernews.com>

"Andrew Chalk" <achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote in message
news:tMYbb.382$zy3.566196578 at newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Is this possible? In my CGI app. I display a web page with a link
(anchor).
> When the link is clicked I want to exectute a python script rather than go
> to an HTML page.

Do you want to run the script on the server or the client? If you
want to run it on the client, you can use Python instead of Javascript
(or in addition to Javascript) in the web page. Look at the <script>
tag for the language (I think that's the one - I haven't looked it up
recently) attribute. Otherwise, just invoke Python the same way you would
invoke any other executable, and use the script name as the
first parameter.

John Roth

>
> Many thanks.
>
>





From s.keim at laposte.net  Wed Sep 24 03:42:33 2003
From: s.keim at laposte.net (sebastien)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 00:42:33 -0700
Subject: Pre-PEP:  reverse iteration methods
References: <HA5cb.185$kD3.168@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <7da8d8f8.0309232342.32ff8b40@posting.google.com>

> PEP: 323
> Title: Add Reverse Iteration Methods
> Version: $Revision: 1.1 $

I don't need this often enough to want it as a method or a builtin
function.
But it would ne nice to have a function in the itertool module.

I would call it riter(), it should work on any sequence with len()
support or on any object wich define the __riter__ special method.

In practice, I mostly use reverse  iteration when I most remove some
few objects on the sequence I'm itering to, so I have more neeed for a
renumerate() function:

for index, value in itertools.renumerate(sequence):
      if not value:
            del sequence(index)



From schmitt at procoders.net  Tue Sep  9 08:43:59 2003
From: schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:43:59 +0200
Subject: AW: Ternery operator
In-Reply-To: <1063110398.3f5dc6fe94f18@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <HLEHIJKGOGCLBGMEGGFFGEOACDAA.schmitt@procoders.net>

:: Uwe Schmitt writes:
:: > Normaly[sic] you should simulate "C ? T : F"
:: > 
:: > either by
:: >              [T,F][not C]
:: > 
:: > or
:: > 
:: >              (C and [T] or [F])[0]
:: > 
:: > in the first case T and F are evaluated[sic] allways[sic],
:: > the latter solution does short circuit evaluation,
:: > which is according to the C/C++ semantics of the
:: > ternary operator.
:: 
:: NOT TRUE!
:: 
:: NEITHER of your options does short-circuit evaluation. That's
:: part of why many people (myself included) wanted to have a
:: conditional expression (more accurate term than "ternary operator").

The second one does short circuit evaluation, try the following:


    def T(): 
          print "T called"
          return "T"
    def F(): 
          print "F called"
          return "F"

    res1 = (1 and [T()] or [F()])[0]
    res2 = (0 and [T()] or [F()])[0]

Greetings, Uwe.







From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Sep 16 15:40:28 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 21:40:28 +0200
Subject: Unicode Newbie
References: <20030909162009.0247ce9d.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch> <mailman.1063119495.15165.python-list@python.org> <20030916124656.254a24ca.sylphaleya@hta.fhz.ch>
Message-ID: <m3n0d45xoz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Manuel Huesser <sylphaleya at hta.fhz.ch> writes:

> Yep Unicode supports less characters than there are possible with
> utf-8 (ucs range = 2 ** 31).
> 
> so there is no possibilty to support the full range of the ucs
> character set with python?

The ucs range (for UCS-4) is *not* 2**31; it is 17*2**16. It was 2**32
in ISO/IEC 10646:1993 (I believe), but it got constrained in 10646:2000.

It is certainly possible to represent 2**32 different values in a
Python Unicode character - but you will have to change the Python
interpreter source code for that.

Regards,
Martin



From mpeuser at web.de  Sun Sep  7 01:37:22 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 07:37:22 +0200
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
References: <mailman.1062873250.31920.python-list@python.org> <6ee58e07.0309061534.5f8cf00f@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.09.06.23.51.35.802469@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <bjeg7k$ubd$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pan.2003.09.06.23.51.35.802469 at webone.com.au...
> On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:34:21 -0700, Lothar Scholz wrote:
>
> ...
> >
> > Because python is a dynamical typed non image language there is no
> > tool that can do this and there never will be any (at least one that
> > is not using heuristics or sampled data from previous runs).
>
> hmmm... I think (some) static analysis may be possible. The main
> thing to exclude is eval/exec but even then, yes you're right, some
> programs would just have to be run to find out what they do.

It it is not only eval/exec. You can create methods dynamically. And static
analysis will already run into trouble when you import moduls dynamically.

What I do very often is "rename" a procedure, e.g. in cases as:
def pVersion1(): ...
def pVersion2(): ...

if....
     p=pVersion1

This is not even tricky.
Kindly
Michael P

>
> I remember reading some interesting things here:
> http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e.html
>
> In particular:
> "Cormac Flanagan and Matthias Felleisen.
> Componential Set-Based Analysis.
> ACM Transactions of Programming Languages and Systems"
>
> Simon.
>
>
>
>





From rnadrchal at proceryon.at  Thu Sep 11 02:47:12 2003
From: rnadrchal at proceryon.at (reinhard)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:47:12 +0200
Subject: Fatal Python error: PyEval_RestoreThread: NULL tstate
Message-ID: <3F601A70.9080009@proceryon.at>

Our project was developed with Python 2.0 and includes some Tk 8.3 
extension widgets as well as python extensions using the CXX interface.

After moving to Python 2.3 and TclTk 8.4 our program hangs with the 
following message:

Fatal Python error: PyEval_RestoreThread: NULL tstate

The strange thing is that this happens in a not very predictible way; 
some data is loaded and displayed in a self-made Tk widget. This works 
fine a couple of times and usually crashes when a widget is closed and a 
new one is opend. Debugging the widget code didn't give any hints.

Does anyone know which changes in python (2.0 -> 2.3) or TclTk/tkinter 
(8.3 -> 8.4) might be responsible for this? Are there any solutions?


Reinhard Nadrchal





From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Sep  3 05:28:20 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:28:20 +0200
Subject: Arguments of function as out
In-Reply-To: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F55B434.6000604@ghaering.de>

Birgit Rahm wrote:
> Hallo Newsgroup,

Hi Birgit,

> I have the following problem:
> I work with Python 2.2 and invoke functions via CORBA ( I use
> onmiORB/omniORBpy) on a server.
> The server provides me a function, where the 3 arguments are out-arguments
> and the return is void / None.
> How can I get these out arguments? [...]

The out (or inout) parameters will be returned as return parameters of 
the method. In your case there should be a 3-tuple of the out parameters 
returned.

See the Python-IDL Language Mapping for details (search for "out 
parameter" in this document):

http://www.python.org/wiki/pub/CorbaPython/attachments/01-02-66.pdf

-- Gerhard




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Sep 24 11:59:40 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:59:40 -0600
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3.1
In-Reply-To: <he30euo4.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1064390741.20344.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1064501497.18527.python-list@python.org> <he30euo4.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <200309240959.40968.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 25 September 2003 09:48 am, Thomas Heller wrote:
> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:
> > I've been working on a simplistic implementation of such a run-time
> > for my own projects.
[snip]
> >  445,952 python23.dll
>
> Interesting.
>
> Is the python23.dll compressed,or did you leave features out?

I started to leave out stuff like imageop, audioop, etc - stuff I never use, 
but I believe in the end I decided not to bother since it wouldn't amount to 
a big difference, so IIRC that's a normal python23.dll (with "minimize size" 
compiler optimizations turned on) + select + _socket + _sre + pyexpat + zlib 
+ _winreg + aes then run through UPX.

-Dave




From pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 30 14:04:24 2003
From: pf_moore at yahoo.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:04:24 +0100
Subject: What's the best MP3 (ID3) access library to use?
References: <182bcf76.0309290349.452a6643@posting.google.com> <ilfhnvkc06d4t18co1mbrqaso9ss5c9lpt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <smmenoev.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> writes:

> Unless you care for the hack value, you better use a free tool like
> this one (which I have used):
> http://www.saunalahti.fi/~cse/html/tag.html

Hack value is usually relevant, with me, but the main reason was that
I'd not found a command-line utility which did the job. The one you
suggest looks like just what I want! And if I *still* want to hack, I
can write a Python script to call tag.exe as needed :-)

Thanks very much.
Paul.
-- 
This signature intentionally left blank



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Fri Sep 26 15:18:17 2003
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Doug Tolton (format t "~a@~a~a.~a" "dtolton" "ya" "hoo" "com"))
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:18:17 GMT
Subject: PIL: Group4 Tiff Images
References: <mqm8nvsetc3vtddlt05p24jn6bevbnuvuh@4ax.com> <z5%cb.28323$nU6.4440971@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <l449nvo49lq8jvmndluvtb4lqq894889eg@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:56:47 GMT, max <max at nospam.com> wrote:

>Doug Tolton wrote:
>> I have been able to load a group4 tif into the wxImage class, but I
>> get tag errors when attempting to do so.
>> 
>> Is there a better way of working with Group4 Tiffs?  I have a huge
>> volume of Tiffs and decompressing them isn't a good option for me.
>> 
>> Any ideas on the best way to tackle this problem?
>
>many :)
>I don't know where PIL stands on TIFF, but almost all C-based libraries 
>rely on libtiff package in the end. Depending on how it is compiled you 
>will get different results for TIFFs with nonstandard tags (which is 
>probably your case). If you are willing to tinker you can recompile wx's 
>version of libtiff. Also, how about reporting to the PIL people? G4 is 
>the most popular tiff codec, they would want to know if it's broken. 
>What are you doing with all those tiffs anyway?
>BTW, you did a nice job obfuscating your email, but it is plaintext in 
>the header - you have to reconfigure you mailer to hide it...

I will send an e-mail to the PIL folks.  I've been quite suprised
because in looking through the code it looks like they have Group4
tiff support.

I did find that using wxImage there is a scale function, so I'll play
around with that and see if it meets my needs.

How do the headers come through now?  I think I set them the same as
my sig e-mail.


Doug Tolton
(format t "~a@~a~a.~a" "dtolton" "ya" "hoo" "com")



From godoy at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Sep 30 06:44:00 2003
From: godoy at metalab.unc.edu (Jorge Godoy)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:44:00 -0300
Subject: Threading and Windows.
References: <m3smmfu7m7.fsf@ieee.org> <21064255.0309291225.259555ec@posting.google.com>
 <m31xtzrou9.fsf@ieee.org> <oprwak8lyv5ctagx@shawnews>
Message-ID: <m3d6dir1xr.fsf@ieee.org>

Jordan Krushen <jordan at krushen.com> writes:

> For running a file based on its extension, you could try os.startfile().

Thank you. 

It will probably solve my problem on Windows.

Unfortunately, it isn't a portable way since this command doesn't even
exist on my Linux (Python 2.2.2). I will have to use the conditional I
said on my previous message. 


Thanks again,
-- 
Godoy.     <godoy at metalab.unc.edu>



From br_y at yahoo.de  Wed Sep  3 04:37:55 2003
From: br_y at yahoo.de (Birgit Rahm)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:37:55 +0200
Subject: Arguments of function as out
Message-ID: <bj499r$cio$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hallo Newsgroup,

I have the following problem:
I work with Python 2.2 and invoke functions via CORBA ( I use
onmiORB/omniORBpy) on a server.
The server provides me a function, where the 3 arguments are out-arguments
and the return is void / None.
How can I get these out arguments?
I have read that every argument is seen as local to the function and can not
be used as return value.
(I can't redesign the server function.)
Can I make the 3 arguments global before they were used in the function?
Does this help me?
Or what can I do?

TIA, Birgit






From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep  5 13:36:45 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:36:45 -0400
Subject: Why the 'self' argument?
References: <slrnblh5ru.nd5.gstaniak@inka.zagiel.pl> <vlh7otscuo8gb1@news.supernews.com> <3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <vlhba85atlte07@news.supernews.com> <3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <vlhidvcpq9a980@news.supernews.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3f58b1f6$0$155$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> In article <vlhba85atlte07 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> >
> > "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
> > news:3f58a2bd$0$156$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> >> In article <vlh7otscuo8gb1 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:
> >>
> >> > Technically, it would be possible to make "self" a reserved
> >> > word, and not have to put it in the method declaration.
> >> > However, there are a lot of people who use something other than
> >> > the word "self," so that would break existing code.
> >>
> >> It would also make the language more complex and irregular.
> >
> > How?
>
>  1) It would add a reserved word.

So? For most people, self *is* a reserved word anyway. A lot of
novices think it is. Making it official simplifies things, IMO.

>  2) It would mean that there's some sort of difference between
>     a function and a method.

I don't understand your point. There is currently a difference
between a function and a method that could be eliminated by
making self a reserved word and removing it from the method
header. Or have you never tried to invoke a method from the
wrong context and gotten the "unbound method" error?

There's no reason why a function in the module space couldn't
use self to refer to the module. It would simplify things by
removing much of the need for the global keyword.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Grant Edwards





From bmiras at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 24 04:31:57 2003
From: bmiras at yahoo.com (bmiras at yahoo.com)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 01:31:57 -0700
Subject: problem using urllib2: \n
References: <7cb14f9.0309230800.8d3a28b@posting.google.com> <874qz3cqs2.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <7cb14f9.0309240031.7f232c8d@posting.google.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<874qz3cqs2.fsf at pobox.com>...
> bmiras at yahoo.com writes:
> 
> > I've got a problem using urllib2 to get a web page.
> > I'm going through a proxy using user/password authentification
> > and i'm trying to get a page asking for a HTTP authentification.
> > And I'm using python 2.3
> > 
> > Here is an exemple of the piece of code I use:
> > 
> > import urllib2
> > #Proxy handler
> > proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({"http" :
> > "http://proxyuser:proxypassword at myproxy:8050"})
> > 
> > #Site auth handler
> > 
> > site_auth_handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler();
> > site_auth_handler.add_password( "This Realm", "www.mysite.com",
> > "siteuser", "sitepassword" );
> > 
> > 
> > opener = urllib2.build_opener( site_auth_handler,
> > urllib2.HTTPRedirectHandler, urllib2.HTTPHandler , proxy_handler)
> > urllib2.install_opener(opener)
> 
> Looks OK (but I don't use a proxy, nor basic auth very often...).
> 
> Just as a BTW: you don't need to pass HTTPHandler or
> HTTPRedirectHandler in there: build_opener adds them whether you ask
> for them or not.
> 
> 
> > req = urllib2.Request('http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage')
> > page = urllib2.urlopen(req)
> > 
> > I got a 401 error.
> 
> So presumably your proxy is happy, but the site is not.  Could you
> test that theory by urlopen()ing a URL that *doesn't* require any
> authentication?  Just:
> 
> # ...your code up to install_opener goes here...
> print urllib2.urlopen("http://www.python.org/").read()
> 
> 
It's ok with URL that doesn't require authentication


> > Analyzing the request using 'strace' I can see the following request
> > sent to the proxy:
> > 
> > GET http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage HTTP/1.0\r\nHost:
> > www.mysite.com\r\nUser-agent:
> > Python-urllib/2.0a1\r\nProxy-authorization: Basic
> > XXX\n\r\nAuthorization: Basic
> > YYY\n\r\n\r\n
> 
> (You probably didn't want to post your usernames and passwords to a
> public newsgroup.  They're reversibly encoded, so anyone can decode
> them.  I've replaced them with XXX and YYY in the quote above.)
> 
> 
> > As you can see there is additionnal \n sent to the server just after
> > the Proxy-authorization and the Authorization fields. I think that in
> > this case the web server get only this part:
> > 
> > GET http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage HTTP/1.0\r\nHost:
> > www.mysite.com\r\nUser-agent:
> > Python-urllib/2.0a1\r\nProxy-authorization: Basic
> > XXX\n\r\n
> > 
> > and so send me back an error 401, since I'm not authenticated for the
> > site.
> 
> Hmm.  That \n does seem likely to be wrong, but I'm not certain.
> 
> The urllib2 code appears to duplicate the code for base64 encoding for
> proxy basic authorization (in ProxyBasicAuthHandler and ProxyHandler),
> and the code differs between the two classes :-(.  [It looks like PBAH
> responds to 407, and ProxyHandler always sends Proxy-Authorization if
> it's in the proxy's URL.]  And in fact, only one of them does a
> .strip() on the base64 encoded string (they also differ in quoting).
> However, the Authorization: header appears to be generated only in one
> place (AbstractBasicAuthHandler.retry_http_basic_auth), which *does*
> strip, but you've got a \n there, too.  So, I don't understand where
> that \n is coming from.  I'd try sticking some print statements in
> there to find out what's going on.
> 

I've done a wrong copy/paste
there is no additional \n after Authorization field
but there an additional \n for Proxy-Authorization

I've used HTTPBasicAuthHandler since you said the code is different
and it worked fine!!!
I think the conclusion is that the strip call in the ProxyHandler code
is missing. Is it necessary to report it as a bug?


> 
> > I had a look in the urllib2.py . I think that base64.encodestring add
> > an \n at the end of the string. It's the case in the method
> > 'proxy_open':
> > 
> >     def proxy_open(self, req, proxy, type):
> >         orig_type = req.get_type()
> >         type, r_type = splittype(proxy)
> >         host, XXX = splithost(r_type)
> >         if '@' in host:
> >             user_pass, host = host.split('@', 1)
> >             if ':' in user_pass:
> >                 user, password = user_pass.split(':', 1)
> >                 user_pass = base64.encodestring('%s:%s' %
> > (unquote(user),
> >                                                           
> > unquote(password)))
> >                 req.add_header('Proxy-authorization', 'Basic ' +
> > user_pass)
> >         host = unquote(host)
> >         req.set_proxy(host, type)
> >    ...
> > 
> > I think it should be:
> > 
> > user_pass = base64.encodestring('%s:%s' % (unquote(user),
> >                                            unquote(password))).split()
> 
> You mean strip, not split?
> 

Yes strip, sorry,

> Try debugging a bit, find out what's really going on.  Just copy
> urllib2.py to your current directory (so it'll override the installed
> standard library's copy), and stick some print statements in there.
> 
> 
> > have you any other clue?
> [...]
> 
> You could try sniffing what Mozilla sends, too.
> 
I've done better: telnet myproxy 8050

GET http://www.mysite.com/protectedpage HTTP/1.0
Host: www.mysite.com
User-agent: Python-urllib/2.0a1
Proxy-authorization: Basic XXX
Authorization: Basic YYY

And it worked fine.


> If you get this working, please look at the doc patch here
> 
> http://www.python.org/sf/798244
> 
> 
> test it, and post a comment to say whether or not it's correct (and
> which examples you tried -- preferably all of them ;).
> 
> 
> John



From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Sat Sep 27 21:42:24 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:42:24 +0200
Subject: Tutor
References: <6kqdb.146$Vb3.97520@news1.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <l2fcnvc06jup4js6ukkhpqked534j829pk@4ax.com>

News:
>I was wondering if anyone out there would be able to help me along with this. 

Sure, what seems to be the problem?

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From chasm at rift.sytes.net  Mon Sep 22 19:56:25 2003
From: chasm at rift.sytes.net (Julian Tibble)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:56:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com> <slrnbmrgau.438.chasm@galileo.rift> <fEJbb.61$eB.37@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbmv319.9d2.chasm@galileo.rift>

In article <fEJbb.61$eB.37 at twister.southeast.rr.com>, M-a-S wrote:
> No difference on my computer (see my note at the end):

<snip>

> s *= 1 <--------------------------------- maybe this is your difference!

oh dear :(
damn typos



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Sep 22 15:00:58 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:00:58 -0400
Subject: Trouble with wxListCtrl
References: <49c4d036.0309220953.29b6fd1e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qb0b/ks/KnGa089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <49c4d036.0309220953.29b6fd1e at posting.google.com>,
pkbf-tspx at dea.spamcon.org (chauhan) wrote:
>I have written a small program which retrieves emails from server,
>unless all the messages are loaded only then it displays on screen
>properlely. Whole thing works fine if I use events to activate
>logMail() after start but I don't know how to activate an event at the
>start (witout pressing mouse  or  menu key) as I want this to load
>messages at the start of the program.

   Typically, at the end of main_window.__init__ or
App.OnInit, just go through the steps that you would go
through on an event.  Although I'm not familiar with poplib
and the complications that it might introduce.

>I am also having problem with statement
>self.list.GetItemText(self.currentItem). The statement
>self.currentItem gives the current selected item position on listctrl
>this statement works fine in wxPanel (demo example wxlistctrl in
>wxPython) and not with
>wxFrame which I am using now as I want menubar in my application. Can
>some body tell me how to get the current selected items position in
>wxListCtrl with wxFrame? Same kind of problem with wxPoint(self.x,
>self.y) but I can use wxGetMousePosition().

   According to the docs, this is true.  What you should do
is put a Panel in the Frame, and put the ListCtrl in the
Panel.  I haven't tested this, but something like:


        tID = wxNewId()
        list_panel = wxPanel (splitter, -1)
        self.list = wxListCtrl (list_panel, tID,
                        style=wxLC_REPORT|wxSUNKEN_BORDER|wxLC_SINGLE_SEL)
...
        splitter.SplitHorizontally (list_panel, self.log, 450)


might work.

        Good Luck.      Mel.



From john.burton at jbmail.com  Mon Sep  1 01:51:24 2003
From: john.burton at jbmail.com (John Burton)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:51:24 +0100
Subject: Python Documentation?
References: <LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3f52de5d$0$329$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net>

"Daniel R. Smorey Jr." <smory at ptdprolog.net> wrote in message
news:LQydncwLlNp2UM-iXTWJkA at comcast.com...
> I'm looking for a good place for Python documentation.  I'm really lost
> on why it's so hard to find anything when it comes to me looking up a
> particular function in Python.  My example would be the split() function

The help within python itsself is a good start.
For your example try

import string
help(string.split)

No need to visit a web site.





From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Sep 23 15:15:55 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:15:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: DB2 driver for windows
References: <3f6cc89b$0$1122$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net> <slrnbmugcf.ppc.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <3f6f6c4c$0$1115$6c56d894@feed0.news.be.easynet.net> <3F703B9C.3000701@lemburg.com> <mailman.1064320234.14842.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkq65a$2r0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

M.-A. Lemburg <mal at lemburg.com> pisze:

>> FYI, mxODBC works fine using the IBM DB2/400 driver for Linux:
>> 
>> http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/linux/odbc/
> 
> Oops, you were looking for a Windows driver: those work too
> with mxODBC, but I can't give you a URL.

There's no URL. Windows ODBC driver for DB2/400 is part of ClientAccess
Express suite and is not available separately.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:jarek at jabberpl.org http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From siteadmin at AFSOUTH.NATO.INT  Fri Sep  5 04:32:05 2003
From: siteadmin at AFSOUTH.NATO.INT (AFSOUTH Internet Administration)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:32:05 +0200 
Subject: Database over 2gb
Message-ID: <71FAC84C4125D611B91F00B0D0D1D1C60FEE49@AFSNUMAIL>

All,

Our python database has accidentally grown over 2Gb and we have the older
version that does not support large files, when we tried to pack it to get
it back below 2Gb it crashed and we can not restart the services or web
pages.  Is there any fix for this problem? we are unable to upgrade our
python version at this stage.  Our wise/ python expert is currently out of
the country.

Thanks for any help.

Paul Rydings
prydings at hotmail.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Sep 21 21:31:48 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:31:48 -0400
Subject: Mutable strings
References: <xhCdnSW6Do2IDPGiU-KYvQ@comcast.com> <3F6CB062.E127F970@engcorp.com> <qhadna08dpEsmvOiXTWJig@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3F6E5104.FECC742A@engcorp.com>

Gordon Airport wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> snip good points that I suspect could be handled with a fairly simple
> regex

I'd argue the point, but I guess until you try it, we'll never know. <wink>

> > It might be worth your writing a PEP, however, if only so that the
> > idea could be killed and buried for good. ;-)
> 
> Yeah, I didn't see one already but I kind of expected this response.
> Still, it didn't put a stake in the heart of the ternary operator
> issue.

Apparently it served its purpose quite well.  The main problem before
the PEP and vote was that there was no PEP to point to when somebody
asked about it, so you could say "asked and answered... will not happen".

Now there is, and the few times the issue has come up since, someone
has fairly quickly pointed to the PEP each time, avoiding lengthier
discussion.

-Peter



From M.Waack at gmx.de  Sat Sep 27 04:27:29 2003
From: M.Waack at gmx.de (Mathias Waack)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:27:29 +0200
Subject: squeeze and package imports
References: <lhcb41-6t3.ln1@valpo.de> <mailman.1064612083.28408.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <h8uf41-on3.ln1@valpo.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> for a modern replacement, see:
> 
>     http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a try. 

Mathias



From fumanchu at amor.org  Mon Sep 29 15:46:26 2003
From: fumanchu at amor.org (Robert Brewer)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:46:26 -0700
Subject: How to instatiate a class of which the name is only known at runtime?
Message-ID: <DE1CF2B4FEC4A342BF62B6B2B334601E1F6B3F@opus.HQAMOR.amorhq.net>

Peter Otten wrote:

> Note that all three versions will not work with submodules, e. g.
"os.path",
> so let's change it one more (last?) time:
> 
> def getClass(classname, modulename):
>     return getattr(__import__(modulename, globals(), locals(),
[classname]),
> classname)

Thanks, Peter, you finally put me on the right track with regards to
importing from packages, with that __import__ builtin. Been fighting
that for a month now, on and off. FWIW, I took your example and expanded
it into a cookbook recipe, replacing my older, much uglier solution:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/223972


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org




From mwilson13 at cox.net  Thu Sep 18 03:13:22 2003
From: mwilson13 at cox.net (Mark Wilson)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 03:13:22 -0400
Subject: Money data type
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0309172222.689f0c7d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <96B872E8-E9A7-11D7-BA12-000393876156@cox.net>

One should be very wary of using floating point arithmetic when dealing 
with money. For a discussion of the limitations of floating point 
arithmetic, see:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node14.html

For financial applications, fixed point arithmetic with an appropriate 
(currency-dependent) scaling factor is usually most appropriate. For 
division operations, the modulo operator can be used to determine 
fractional currency units.

Regards,

Mark





From lance.ellinghaus at eds.com  Wed Sep 17 19:53:15 2003
From: lance.ellinghaus at eds.com (Ellinghaus, Lance)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:53:15 -0400
Subject: Module to generate OpenOffice Writer documents
Message-ID: <1093E8BAEB6AD411997300508BDF0A7C1571ECD0@USHEM204>

Has anyone created a module to generate the XML formatted files for
OpenOffice?

Lance

Lance Ellinghaus
EDS - TWAI Operations
Phone: 214-922-5454
Cell: 940-597-4755






From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep  7 19:21:57 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Sep 2003 00:21:57 +0100
Subject: Any tools to print source code call hierarchy
References: <mailman.1062873250.31920.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87oexwi3qi.fsf@pobox.com>

Scott Chapman <scott_list at mischko.com> writes:
[...]
> I need a tool that will go through a python module (ClientForm in this case) 
> and allow me to specify a starting module to parse and tell me what all it 
> uses.
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to take ClientForm apart enough to pull out just the 
> html form parsing code in it and use it elsewhere.  It would be MUCH easier 
> when approaching someone elses code if I could see what all functions are 
> called by a given function, etc.

In the absence of that, you could try just asking me.  :-)

_FormParser is it, really.  What exactly did you want to do?


As for the general question: I only glanced at the other replies, but
have you tried etags?  Or for something in a single source file, as in
this case, why not just incremental search or other simple editor
commands?  It's true a bit of knowledge of common dynamic Python
idioms is valuable here, though.


John



From ryan10975073 at netscape.net  Tue Sep  9 18:00:42 2003
From: ryan10975073 at netscape.net (ryan10975073 at netscape.net)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:00:42 -0400
Subject: Internal states..
Message-ID: <03E2314F.4437628D.A05AB946@netscape.net>

hi,
 The below text is from library reference doc 'random --Generate pseudo-random numbers.' What i would like to know is what the word 'internal states' means with context to seed value?? i am just learning python and finding it pretty interesting, challenging(that it is!). I know abit OOP and in my point it states about the state of the object??

-whseed([x])
This is obsolete, supplied for bit-level compatibility with versions of Python prior to 2.1. See seed for details. whseed does not guarantee that distinct integer arguments yield distinct internal states, and can yield no more than about 2**24 distinct internal states<<<<here guyz>  in all. 

Cheers,
Ryan.

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From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Sep 12 10:25:18 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:25:18 -0500
Subject: getting ttf font/family name; fontTools?
In-Reply-To: <3F614521.7060302@rogers.com> ("Mike C. Fletcher"'s message of
 "Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:01:37 -0400")
References: <m2ad9bcbhy.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<3F60F508.8030300@rogers.com> <m2pti6yfab.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<3F614521.7060302@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <m2wucexewh.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike C Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:


    Mike> I've checked the change into CVS. That'll teach me to open
    Mike> my big mouth :) . Have fun, Mike

OK, thanks, I repaired it on my end too.  I'm having trouble figuring
out how to use the minor argument.  For example, with the Bitstream
Vera fonts in my path, if I do

    import sys, os
    import ttffiles

    major, minor = 'Sans', None

    weight = 'bold'
    italics = 0
    registry = ttffiles.Registry()
    new,failed = registry.scan( paths=None, printErrors = 1, force = 0)

    for fontName in registry.familyMembers( major, minor ):
        print 'F', fontName
        for specific in registry.fontMembers(
            fontName, weight=weight, italics=italics ):
            print ' ', registry.fontFile( specific )

I get the results

  F Bitstream Vera Sans
    /usr/share/fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera/Vera.ttf
  F Bitstream Vera Sans Mono
    /usr/share/fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera/VeraMono.ttf

How do I indicate whether I want the Mono or regular version?  I tried
specifying 'Mono' as the minor argument, but this returned no matches.

Also, I found the WEIGHT_NAMES dictionary in describe, but haven't
found the analog for italics.  Empirically, I find that italics=1
returns italics fonts and italics=0 returns nonslanted fonts.  How do
I ask for oblique?

Thanks again,
John Hunter







From lance.ellinghaus at eds.com  Fri Sep 26 14:20:34 2003
From: lance.ellinghaus at eds.com (Ellinghaus, Lance)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:20:34 -0400
Subject: Python Modules for Netegrity's SiteMinder
Message-ID: <1093E8BAEB6AD411997300508BDF0A7C1571ED3F@USHEM204>

Does anyone have any python modules that interact with SiteMinder?

Thanks,
lance

Lance Ellinghaus
EDS - TWAI Operations
Phone: 214-922-5454
Cell: 940-597-4755






From sjsmith3 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 26 10:06:23 2003
From: sjsmith3 at comcast.net (sjsmith3 at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:06:23 -0400
Subject: centering a dialog in pygtk
Message-ID: <410-22003952614623154@M2W067.mail2web.com>

Is there a way to center a dialog on a screen?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .






From rnia at algonet.se  Tue Sep 30 09:53:44 2003
From: rnia at algonet.se (.r!kard)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:44 +0200
Subject: intercepting smtp email
References: <c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2@posting.google.com> <blc1kt$ooe$1@green.tninet.se> <blc1ss$p54$1@green.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <blc20f$pb9$1@green.tninet.se>

Even more results of Googeling:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?so=d&find=SMTP

.r!kard



".r!kard" <rnia at algonet.se> wrote in message
news:blc1ss$p54$1 at green.tninet.se...
> Or maybe you can find it here: http://twistedmatrix.com
>
> Basically i think you have to write your own SMTP-server if nobody else
> hasn't done it already...
>
> .r!kard
>
>
> ".r!kard" <rnia at algonet.se> wrote in message
> news:blc1kt$ooe$1 at green.tninet.se...
> > I'm no star at this but maybe you can check the code in
> >   http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
> >
> > .r!kard
> >
> > "Scott Hathaway" <scott at hcsprogramming.com> wrote in message
> > news:c6354815.0309300518.4acb87b2 at posting.google.com...
> > > I want to write an NT service that will intercept any outgoing smtp
> > > traffic, like Norton Antivirus does.  Can anyone tell me how I can do
> > > something like this in Python?  I do not know how to intercept the
> > > outgoing traffic, specifically.
> > >
> > > Any help is greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Scott
> >
> >
>
>





From BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com  Tue Sep 16 16:09:59 2003
From: BjornPettersen at fairisaac.com (Pettersen, Bjorn S)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:09:59 -0500
Subject: Missing python23_d.lib in Windows Python 2.3
Message-ID: <1DAECE9E8F34E04AA0E5699AF7D9FF0907624AA8@stpmsg00.corp.fairisaac.com>

> From: Partho Bhowmick [mailto:pbhowmick at sbcglobal.net] 
> 
> I am building extension modules for Python 2.3 under Windows 
> using MS Visual
> Studio .Net 2003.
> In the debug build, there is a pragma statement in 
> <pyconfig.h> that causes
> a link to the lib python23_d.lib
> This library does not exist.
> Am I missing something or is the installation missing something?

It's the debug version of the python library. If you're writing
extensions on windows it's expected that you've downloaded the python
sources and built the debug versions of libraries you care about
yourself...

-- bjorn




From aleax at aleax.it  Sat Sep  6 19:04:48 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 23:04:48 GMT
Subject: Why python???
References: <mailman.1062790509.19411.python-list@python.org> <bjarq6$j45$00$1@news.t-online.com> <NO66b.30883$R32.926812@news2.tin.it> <bjb4hk$ohm$01$1@news.t-online.com> <Jbg6b.32033$R32.992758@news2.tin.it> <bjcbha$vmp$02$1@news.t-online.com> <8Um6b.34442$R32.1077180@news2.tin.it> <v6Cdne4p1M5Zl8eiXTWJgA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <kKt6b.24041$hE5.882369@news1.tin.it>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> 
> "Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
> news:8Um6b.34442$R32.1077180 at news2.tin.it...
> 
>> for a really wide range of tasks.  A language we're developing at
>> AB Strakt as part of the CAPS framework, for example, looks like...:
>>
>>    attribute salary is Currency
>>        "Salario mensile"
>>        restriction quantity(1)
>>
>>        on create code Python
>>            if value[0] < minimumSalary:
>>                value = [ minimumSalary ]
>>            return value
>>        %%
> 
> My reflexive reaction was 'ugh'.  My considered reaction is 'bravo'.

Glad you reconsidered;-).  I'm not enthusiastic about that %%, but we
found that relying on just indentation for that specific role (indicating
the end of embedded Python code and the return to the declarative
language) was quite error-prone (e.g. due to Python continuation lines),
so we decided we needed a marker of SOME kind or other right there,
and for now, until further development, it's that "%%" thingy.

> You have avoided the 'ghetto trap' that I think too many
> mini-languages fall into by trying to be more or less turing-complete
> with a proprietary syntax useless for any other task.  The Python
> 'humancode' fits pretty seamlessly into the declaration framework for
> two reasons: the common use of significant indentation and the
> semi-natural (versus chicken-scratch) look of Python.

True.  However, we're keeping our options open as to the possibility
of hosting other languages for "embedded code" in the future (not
likely, perhaps, but possible).


>> etc -- now THAT is a higher-level language than Python, and it's
>> a dream to use for directly transcribing into executable code the
>> results of ERD analysis for typical business applications to be
>> deployed as multi-layer clients/middleware/server distributed apps;
> 
> If your declaration form requires overall noticeably fewer written
> lines than the Python translation, then I probably could learn to like
> it too.

Yes, ratios of 2:1 to 3:1 are typical (and it's just that because the
generated Python is mostly made up of calls to libraries supplied
with the framework, of course).


>> suited.  Note that this language uses Python as its lower-level
>> embedded language; indeed the whole VVHL (very-very high-level)
>> program gets compiled into Python (by a Python-coded compiler, of
>> course) and executed as Python (by a Python-coded middleware, of
>> course -- resting on top of a very special Python-coded OODB and
>> feeding clients such as GUI ones, Web apps, and batch scripts --
>> all typically coded, of course, in Python).
> 
> I am curious: Will the CAPS marketers reveal or hide the fact that the
> readable procedural sublanguage is a *real* language that CAPS users
> can potentially use outside the CAPS box?

Judge for yourself by visiting www.strakt.com -- I think so far Strakt has 
been pretty good at promoting Python (other indicators that you may
not find on the site is that Strakt houses the PBF site & mailing lists,
the Strakt success story is on the success stories website, and next
year's Europython will apparently be in G?teborg, Strakt's hometown).

I see no reason to predict that would change.  While we will eventually
document the declarative language in great detail, we'd be unlikely to
do much more than point to "Python in a Nutshell" for documentation
of the "embedded-code procedural language";-).


Alex





From DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org  Tue Sep 23 18:39:28 2003
From: DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org (DeepBleu)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:39:28 GMT
Subject: Passing a String to a Python CGI Script
Message-ID: <AY3cb.104524$834.93516@twister.austin.rr.com>

When one is using an HTML form via a web broswer, the user submits the form
contents and these are passed to a CGI Python script on the web server.
I need to write a client script that connects to a web site, runs a Python
CGI script on the web server AND passes a string to the CGI Python script
that the Python CGI script can store/manipulate/evalute etc....
I know how to connect to the web site and run the CGI Python script using a
client Python script with the urllib module.  But how do I submit/send a
string via this client Python script to the web server on behalf of the CGI
Python script?  Can someone give me a clue or a hint on how to do that?  Do
I write the string to the web server?  If so, how would the CGI Python
script know about it, read it, and store it?
Thanks,
DeepBleu





From johnlichtenstein at mac.com  Mon Sep 22 23:05:17 2003
From: johnlichtenstein at mac.com (john)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 20:05:17 -0700
Subject: working png output from graphing modules
Message-ID: <983dac9b.0309221905.1960cf02@posting.google.com>

Are there any charting or graphing modules for python that can write
PNG, JPEG, or GIF graphics? I have found a couple of nice looking
packages that can make beautiful postscript, PDF, or SVGs (PyChart and
ReportLab) but they can't make PNGs, GIFs, or JPEGs. (On my Solaris
machine with Python 2.2 they don't.) Or are there any simple UNIX
filters to convert SVG, PDF, or ps files to PNG?



From bblancett at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 17 16:50:41 2003
From: bblancett at hotmail.com (Bill)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 13:50:41 -0700
Subject: Did my SMTPlib question go through ?
Message-ID: <4fd6e92.0309171250.5b14f9f9@posting.google.com>

This is a test



From bh at intevation.de  Wed Sep 24 06:14:48 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:14:48 +0200
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com>
 <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6qad8u1oiv.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Stephen Horne <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> writes:
> The PEP315 system of...
>
>   do:
>     ...
>   while condition :
>     ...
>
> is IMO broken simply because there is no lexical indicator in that
> 'while' line that it is a continuation rather than a new structure. It
> isn't a distinctive keyword because 'while' can obviously be the start
> of a loop.

I think someone once suggested "and while" instead of a plain while:

do:
   ...
and while condition:
   ...

This reads quite nicely IMO.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Sep  5 12:12:32 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 16:12:32 GMT
Subject: reading large file
References: <9bd0dd3f.0309030400.7fa2dc0f@posting.google.com> <bj5e61$pjr$0@216.39.172.122> <3f582c85$0$20942$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <bjaclg$dnh$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:26:12 +0200, "Sophie All?on" <alleon at club-internet.fr> wrote:

<toppost moved to preferred location below ;-) />

>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> a ?crit dans le message de news:
>bj5e61$pjr$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>> On 3 Sep 2003 05:00:39 -0700, g_alleon at yahoo.fr (guillaume) wrote:
>>
>> >I have to read and process a large ASCII file containing a mesh : a
>> >list of points and triangles.
>> >The file is 100 MBytes.
>> >
>> >I first tried to do it in memory but I think I am running out of
>> >memory therefore I decide to use the shelve
>> >module to store my points and elements on disks.
>> >Despite the fact it is slow ... Any hint ? I think I have the same
>> >memory problem but I don't understand why
>> >since  my aPoint should be removed by the gc.
>> >
>> >Have you any idea ?
>> >
>> Since your data is very homogeneous, why don't you store it in a couple of
>> homogeneous arrays? You could easily create a class to give you convenient
>> access via indices or iterators etc. Also you could write load and store
>> methods that could write both arrays in binary to a file. You could
>> consider doing this as a separate conversion from your source file, and
>> then run your app using the binary files and wrapper class.
>>
>> Arrays are described in the array module docs ;-)
>> I imagine you'd want to use the 'd' type for ponts and 'l' for faces.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bengt Richter
>
>
<topPostText>
>Thanks to your comments, it is now possible to read my large file in a
>couple of minutes
>on my machine.
>
>Guillaume
</topPostText>

Well, so long as you're happy, glad to have played a role ;-)

But I would think that time could still be cut a fair amount. E.g., I imagine just copying
your file at the command line might take 20-25 sec, depending on your system,
and if you have a fast processor, you should be i/o bound a lot, so a lot of
the conversions etc. should be able to happen mostly while waiting for the disk.

There doesn't seem to be any way to tell the array module an estimated full (over or exact)capacity
for an array yet to be populated, but I would think such a feature in the array module would be good
for your kind of application. (Of course, hopefully the fromfile method increases size with a single
memory allocation, but you can't use that if your data requires conversion or filtering (scanf/printf
per-line conversion from/to ascii files might be another useful feature?)).

Anyway, even as is, I'd bet we could get the time down to under a minute, if it was important.
Of course, a couple of minutes is not bad if you're not going to do it over and over.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Thu Sep 11 16:03:07 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:03:07 -0400
Subject: [Python-Dev] Making python C-API thread safe (try 2)
In-Reply-To: <3F60C3DA.6070409@zope.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030911130607.02426ec0@telecommunity.com>
	 <3F60B545.6030100@sci.fi>  <3F60C3DA.6070409@zope.com>
Message-ID: <1063310587.2069.247.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 14:50, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> Imagine the following Python module:
> 
> 
> import pseudothreads
> 
> data = pseudothreads.shared([])
> 
> def data_collection_thread():
>      s = get_some_data()
>      data.append(s)
> 
> for n in range(4):
>      pseudothreads.start_new_thread(data_collection_thread)
> 
> 
> In this made-up example, nothing is shared between threads except for 
> the "data" global.  The shared() function copies the list to shared 
> memory and returns a wrapper around the list that prevents access by 
> multiple threads simultaneously.  start_new_thread() is a thin wrapper 
> around os.fork().  Each pseudothread has its own global interpreter lock.
> 
> I wonder whether others would consider such a thing valuable, or even 
> feasible. :-)

This sounds like POSH.  There was a paper about it at PyCon.

http://poshmodule.sourceforge.net/posh/html/

Python uses a single global lock known as the global interpreter lock
(or GIL) to serialize execution of byte codes.  The GIL becomes a
major bottleneck when executing multi-threaded Python applications, in
particular on multi-processor architectures.  This paper presents
POSH, which is an extension module to Python that attempts to address
the problems associated with the GIL by enabling placement of Python
objects in shared memory.  In particular, POSH allows multiple
processes to share objects in much the same way that threads do with
standard Python objects.  We have found that the use of POSH allows
some applications to be structured as if they used threads, but
without the GIL bottleneck.

Jeremy






From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Sep 11 01:38:38 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:38:38 -0700
Subject: FIFO problems
In-Reply-To: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200309102238.38056.gherron@islandtraining.com>

The most generic method of doing interprocess communication (with
process on the same or different machine) is to use sockets.  See
Python's socket module.  There are lots of other ways -- pipes (see
the os.popen family) and shared memory, but you'll be able to find
many examples and much documentation for sockets.  Reading and writing
straight files (if that is really what you are doing) is probably not
going to work well.

Gary Herron


On Wednesday 10 September 2003 10:23 pm, Tobias Pfeiffer wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I want to write a "client-server-application" (only running on the same
> machine) or actually I've already begun with and have problems with the
> interprocess communication. The server, when started, opens a FIFO and
> opens it with open(infifo, 'r'). Then I check the content of the file
> with
>
> while 1:
>     	line = serverIn.readline()[:-1]
>     	if line == "bla":
>     	    	do this
>     	else:
>     	    	print line
>
> So at the beginning everything works fine. I can start the client prog
> and they will talk and understand to each other. The same if I connect
> with three or more clients simultaneously (?). If one of these clients
> exists, no problem. But when the last process exists and closes the
> FIFO-file which was opened by os.open(infifo, os.O_WRONLY), the server
> begins to print an empty string everytime it goes through the loop,
> means it won't wait for a complete line to appear before continuing.
> Why?
> Then I modified the thing above to:
>
> while 1:
>     	line = serverIn.readline()[:-1]
>     	if line == "bla":
>     	    	do this
>     	elif line == "":
>     	    	open(infifo, 'r')
>     	    	print "help!!!"
>     	else:
>     	    	print line
>
> So in contrast to what I thought, there was not a bunch of "help!!!"
> lines printed, but nothing. When I tried then to connect again, there
> was a single "help!!!" and then the correct message for the client
> having connected.
>
> So, anyone any idea how I can fix this. I just want the server to
> continue line-by-line-reading...
>
> Bye
> Tobias






From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Sep 18 07:48:32 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:48:32 +0200
Subject: How to pass parameter to a module?
References: <Vwfab.2454$9G2.2174@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bkc62g$5k0$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

M-a-S wrote:
> I'd like to parametrize a module. That is, to set and pass
> some values into the module, while it is being imported.
> I tried this:
>
>   # sub_1.py -- main program
>   extern = "OK"
>   import sub_2
>   print sub_2.noway # prints 'no extern' :-(
>   # EOF
>
>   # sub_2.py -- parametrized module, parameter is the 'extern' var
>   try:
>      noway = extern
>   except:
>      noway = 'no extern'
>   # EOF
>
> You can guess, it doesn't work.
> How can I pass the parameter? Can I?

Create an additional module sub_2_parameters:
  # sub_1.py -- main program
  import sub_2_parameters
  sub_2_parameters.extern = "OK"
  import sub_2

  # sub_2.py -- parametrized module, parameter is the 'extern' var
  import sub_2_parameters
  try:
     noway = sub_2_parameters.extern
  except:
     noway = 'no extern'
  # EOF

Note that modules are imported only once so you cannot import sub_2 with one
set of parameters into one module and with another set of variables into
another.

Depending on your problem, it might be better to use the builtin execfile,
because you can pass a dictionary with the parameters to the call.

Daniel






From grante at visi.com  Fri Sep 26 04:14:10 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 08:14:10 GMT
Subject: When did Windows start accepting forward slash as a path separator?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309251550.724a57f@posting.google.com> <slrnap4tni.18h.grante@localhost.localdomain> <GpScb.123559$hE5.4229137@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <slrnap5gfa.aol.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <GpScb.123559$hE5.4229137 at news1.tin.it>, Alex Martelli wrote:

>>> Does anyone know when that change occurred?  Was it with the introduction
>>> of support for long filenames in NT and Win95?
>> 
>> I'm not aware that there has ever been a "change".  '/' has been OK since
>> the early DOS days.
> 
> I _think_ (can't be sure...) that at a C-libraries level the switch
> occurred either between DOS 1.0 and 1.1, or at the time of release of
> 2.0.

I don't think 1.0 had a hierarchical filesystem at all did it?  

IIRC, it was basically the same as CP/M 2.2 and had nothing other than a
"root" directory on each floppy [IIRC, CP/M 3.x had some concept of multiple
directories on a floppy but it wasn't a tree structured FS with "paths" --
it was more like partitioning a floppy into multiple drive letters.]

By the time I got my hands on IBM machines 2.x was in common use, so I only
had a brief exposure to 1.x.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I want to perform
                                  at               cranial activities with
                               visi.com            Tuesday Weld!!



From riquito at riquito.matrix  Tue Sep 23 09:26:55 2003
From: riquito at riquito.matrix (Riccardo Attilio Galli)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:26:55 +0200
Subject: General Password questions
References: <mailman.1064266830.20157.python-list@python.org> <3F6F86A2.DC29472A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.23.13.26.53.712668@riquito.matrix>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:32:50 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Todd Johnson wrote:
>> 
>> On a similar note, I want to save the password to a
>> file. How do I encrypt the password?
> 
> You don't encrypt passwords, you hash them.  That means use a
> cryptographically strong hashing algorithm such as SHA or MD5
> and store the resulting value.  Later, when a user has entered 
> a password which you want to check against the correct one, you 
> run the same hash algorithm on the password-under-test and compare 
> the result with the stored result. 
> [...]
> -Peter

Hi Peter,
what about if I would reload an entered password?
I wrote an e-mail client, and I haven't found a way to store the password
that an user enter the first time and use it when the program is restarted.
I don't want to ask to the user every time the account password, but also
I don't want to store it as plain text.
Do you know what is the usual practice in these cases?

Thanks,
Riccardo

-- 
-=Riccardo Galli=-

 _,e.
s~  ``
 ~@.   ideralis Programs
.   ol 
 `**~  http://www.sideralis.net



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Thu Sep 11 07:07:43 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:07:43 +1000
Subject: 1.5 vs. 2x - build problem 
In-Reply-To: <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org> 
References: <7af2fd5c1a70e3c6ce4fe1f8eee39b9b@remailer.frell.eu.org>  
Message-ID: <200309111107.h8BB7hwU012509@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Fritz Wuehler wrote
> 
> I downloaded a tarball which doesn't compile.  The error message says I
> need python 2x but all I have is 1.5.  Can I fix the compatability
> problem and get it to work on 1.5?

It depends on what requirements of 2.x the code needs. There's a bunch
of additional modules shipped with Python, the language has grown a 
bunch of new features... you're better off asking the author of the
package.

Anthony
-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From pnu at ukfsn.org  Thu Sep 25 06:46:16 2003
From: pnu at ukfsn.org (Peter Nuttall)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:46:16 +0100
Subject: send email
In-Reply-To: <D44DA9C0-EF06-11D7-8841-000393C2D67E@colorstudy.com>
References: <D44DA9C0-EF06-11D7-8841-000393C2D67E@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <200309251146.17045.pnu@ukfsn.org>

On Thursday 25 Sep 2003 4:17 am, Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 09:04 PM, Alberto Vera wrote:
> > Could you tell me How I can send an email using WIN2000? What do I
> > need?
>
> Use the smtplib module, and maybe the new email module to create the
> email message (but you won't need that if you want to create simple
> email messages).
>
>    Ian

here is a program to send emails with python. It was writien quickly so it is 
not perfect. 

import smtplib

winth_of_email=50

message = ''

print 'type message here:'
    
end = 0

while end == 0:
    msg=raw_input()
    
    if msg=='':
        if new_line_1=='1':
            print 'end of message'
            end=1
        else:
            new_line_1='1'
            message = message + '\n'
    else:
        new_line_1=''
        new_line_2=''
        lent=len(msg)/winth_of_email
        x=0
        while x <= lent:
            chop=(x+1) * winth_of_email+x
            msg = msg[:chop] + '\n' + msg[chop:]
            x+=1
        message = message +'\n'+ msg


#adds headers to email
fromaddr=raw_input('what is the from address ')
toaddrs=raw_input('what is the to address ')
subject=raw_input('what is the subject ')
sever=raw_input('what is the smtp sever you are using ')

message = 'From: '+fromaddr +'\n'+ 'To: '+toaddrs +'\n'+ 'Subject '+ subject + 
'\n' +message


print "Message length is " + `len(message)`

#code for sending email
server = smtplib.SMTP(sever)
server.set_debuglevel(1)
server.sendmail(fromaddr, toaddrs, message)
server.quit()

if anyone has any comments I would like to see them.

Peter
-- 
Someone esle can help you better than I can.

Every time I think that perhaps we are an advanced race, I turn around and 
read ramblings on Slashdot, and realize I was wrong.





From rh4170056 at juno.com  Sun Sep 28 06:07:35 2003
From: rh4170056 at juno.com (rhmd)
Date: 28 Sep 2003 03:07:35 -0700
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com> <3dd5593c.0309211615.747ba123@posting.google.com> <3F6E4D02.7868D52C@easystreet.com> <616fccba.0309230137.586ddea5@posting.google.com> <bkt9ct$71h$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <yFBcb.119348$hE5.4103433@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <616fccba.0309280207.394ff56d@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<yFBcb.119348$hE5.4103433 at news1.tin.it>...
> 
> Similar orders of magnitude for the built-in random number generator,
> which IS a Mersenne Twister in Python 2.3 -- at least on my old trusty
> Athlon box (no doubt today's CPU's would easily take 3 or 4 times less):
> 
> [alex at lancelot python2.3]$ python timeit.py \
> > -s "from random import random"  \
> > -s "times=[None]*1000" 
> > "for x in times: random()"
> 1000 loops, best of 3: 380 usec per loop
> 
> 380 microseconds for 1,000 calls to random.random(), and here, too,
> very linear scaling, suggests about 380 seconds for a billion calls,
> i.e., about 6 or 7 minutes, on this old machine.

Wow!  I didn't realize that 2.3 had upgraded to Mersenne Twister
(which has a period of more than 10**10000, vs. WichmannHill which has
a period of less than 10**10 and the Excel 2000 PNRG which (to my
shock and chagrin) had a period of about 10**7).  This is awesome.



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Sep 21 16:50:57 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 21:50:57 +0100
Subject: Help me choose a C++ compiler to work with Python
References: <616fccba.0309210907.1e35b92d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <873cep6f2m.fsf@pobox.com>

rh4170056 at juno.com (rhmd) writes:
[...]
>    I would like to use it for various applications, but the
> mathematical calculations are way too slow (a million sines 8 seconds
> in Python vs. 2 seconds in Excel VBA), so was thinking of learning
> enough C++ to do the number crunching in C++ and integrating the C++
> routines with Python.  My question:
[...]

Do remember that frequently only small parts of your code (even the
number crunching part) are responsible for most of the running time.
Writing everything in Python then porting the 'hot spots' is often the
best strategy.  Use the profiler.

Also (apart from Numeric / numarray), remember (or discover) Pyrex and
psyco.  Probably Pyrex is more useful to you than psyco.  Don't apply
either to your whole program.  Just pick the bottlenecks.

Quite a few people here have touted O'Caml as a replacement for C++
for this kind of thing.  C is worth considering, too, especially if
you find the parts you need to move down to a lower-level language are
small.

If you insist on using C++, make sure to look at Boost.Python
(including pyste).


John



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Sep 24 14:48:40 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:48:40 -0600
Subject: __init__ return value
In-Reply-To: <16241.58373.833630.615370@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FFE@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
 <16241.58373.833630.615370@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030924124805.0346ed20@66.28.54.253>

At 12:35 PM 9/24/2003, Skip Montanaro wrote:


>     Facundo> The question is about the last two lines: When you call
>     Facundo> self.__init__(...), doesn't it return a value that you should
>     Facundo> return too?
>
>No, __init__ method return values are always ignored.

Oh?

 >>> class A:
...     def __init__(self):
...             return 'asdf'
...
 >>> A()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: __init__() should return None


Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003

From NO-MAIL at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 20 03:13:54 2003
From: NO-MAIL at hotmail.com (M-a-S)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:13:54 GMT
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <AqQab.40174$NM1.1797@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <S6Tab.2$eb4.0@twister.southeast.rr.com>

> "Andrew Wilkinson" <ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk> wrote in message
> >
> > def fac(n):
> >     return reduce(long.__mul__, range(1,n+1), 1L)
> >
> > ..would probably be a bit quicker. I'm not sure how much quicker though.
> >
> > Anyway, hope this is of some use,
> > Regards,
> > Andrew Wilkinson

def factorial_rec(n):
  if n <= 1:
    return 1
  else:
    return n*factorial_rec(n-1)

def factorial_iter(n):
  s = 1
  for i in range(2,n+1):
    s *= i
  return s

def factorial_rdc(n):
  return reduce(long.__mul__, range(1,n+1), 1L)


Best times (seconds) on Compaq 5430US, Pentium 4, 1.8GHz, 512MB
Windows XP, Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32

Calculations of 950!, 1000 times each (xrange(1000)) --

recursion ..... 8.01
reduction ..... 4.20
iteration ..... 3.79

M-a-S





From medved at fcc.net  Wed Sep 10 02:50:30 2003
From: medved at fcc.net (Ted Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:50:30 -0400
Subject: pygtk clist usage
References: <vFqdnf3p0PyDIcOiXTWJhw@fcc.net> <Xyz7b.8398$NW3.3367@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <LgGdnZm1kJUuVsOiXTWJkQ@fcc.net>

David M. Cook wrote:

> In article <vFqdnf3p0PyDIcOiXTWJhw at fcc.net>, Ted Holden wrote:
>  
>> If anybody has any sort of a clue as to how to use a clist generated by
>> glade as a list, the 'GtkList' changed to 'GtkClist' by hand, and add
>> input strings using 'append' and end up seeing more than just the first
>> character of each line, I'd appreciate hearing from them.
> 
> Sounds like you are appending a string instead of a list of strings.

> BTW, CList is deprecated (meaning it will go away in the next major gtk
> release).  ListStore/TreeView can be a bit hard to make the transition to,
> though, as the documentation is rather scattered and fragmentary.  Best
> sources of info are


Thanks!  I'd gotten the thing to work using brackets around the strings and
was too sleepy to figure out why.  Every other programming system I've ever
dealth with uses strings with append statements in listboxes and I end up
just guessing a lot with pygtk.  The best info I'd been able to dig up on
listboxes was that list was deprecated in favor of clist.  Documentation
for pygtk generally appears less than paper thin;  if I can find any
documentation for liststore I'll try to use it...

The combination of c++, swig, python, pygtk, and zope looks like a
potentially winning ticket for the future of software development, but the
components will have to get easier to use somehow or other. 








From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Sep 26 05:19:03 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 05:19:03 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <vn81479856i9a@news.supernews.com>

I agree. Importing itertools to get at riter()
isn't a significant hardship.

John Roth

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:8RScb.169633$R32.5449258 at news2.tin.it...
> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
> >> And I still think you don't need it often enough to put it in the
> >> builtin namespace, so the function should go in the itertools module.
> >
> > If you have a magic method, __riter__, then the corresponding
> > function needs to be a builtin.  They go hand in hand.  The
> > core parts of the language need to be usable without having
> > to know about itertools.
>
> I have already seen module copy presented as a counter-example to
> your assertion, and I'd like to add module pickle as a second, and
> I hope decisive, counter-example.  It is, to put it simply, utterly
> false that functions corresponding to magic methods "need to be
> builtins": it's *perfectly* all right for such functions to live
> in standard library modules.  Oh, and let's not forget module sets:
> the __as_immutable__ and __as_temporarily_immutable__ magic methods,
> that are used when making a set of sets, or checking for a set's
> membership in another set, can be seen as yet another example (and
> in this case there is no wiggling out of it by claiming that the
> magicmethod/NON-builtin correspondence is a historical/legacy thing,
> as the BDFL approved module sets.py, with just this usage, so very
> recently).
>
> I second the motion that function riter, with check for __riter__
> and all, should live in module itertools.  Reverse iteration is a
> RARE need -- far rarer than copying or even pickling -- and there
> is no real reason to burden __builtins__ with a function for it.
>
>
> Alex
>





From google.10.hypatia at xoxy.net  Thu Sep  4 10:46:09 2003
From: google.10.hypatia at xoxy.net (RichB)
Date: 4 Sep 2003 07:46:09 -0700
Subject: Where to post useful code
Message-ID: <2e1f6497.0309040646.3dcce9fb@posting.google.com>

Howdy all,

I've written a few scripts that might be very useful to small groups
of people (i.e. extracting time stamps from pictures taken with Sony
digital cameras).
I don't want to start sourceforge projects or anything big like that. 
I just want to make some stuff available. Where can I post/upload my
stuff?

thanks,

RichB



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Sep 25 19:48:13 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:48:13 -0400
Subject: 64-bit EPIC and some modules
References: <nsd3nv40ifcur0clp7ful66qohveos0o9r@4ax.com> <7h3smmm2m0w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <0ck3nvoicm45kb0oon2etsucttatc3aob7@4ax.com> <7h3ad8t2k6q.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <89d6nv85qdrvegiehk25rpkpirogvqspgi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7dWcnajRG6oi4-6iXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou" <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message
news:89d6nv85qdrvegiehk25rpkpirogvqspgi at 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:20:27 GMT, rumours say that Michael Hudson
> <mwh at python.net> might have written:
>
> >PS: hp-ux/itanium appears to be utterly horked...
>
> Thank God this is not a HP/UX then... presumably.  See PS.
>
> PS: What is horked???

In Diablo II, it means that a Barbarian has stood over the corpse and
yelled a particular magical warcry to draw out any remaining potions
or possessions.

MH might have meant something else ;-)

TJR





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Sep 11 08:28:53 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:28:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: FIFO problems
References: <bjp0sg$li4db$1@ID-162581.news.uni-berlin.de> <tJZ7b.67$o71.53@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <Xns93F388B7855duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in 
news:tJZ7b.67$o71.53 at news2.central.cox.net:

> There are various ways around this. Since you are talking interactive
> multi-process stuff here it's probably safest to do somehting like the
> following (untested) code:
> 
> while 1:
>     line = serverIn.readline()
>     if not line:
>         break
>     del line[:-1]
>     if line == "bla":
>         do something incredibly interesting
>     else:
>         print line

Untested is right. Your 'del' statement is a little bit too destructive, or 
at least it would be if strings were mutable.

Here's my (equally untested) alternative:

for line in serverIn:
    line = line[:-1]
    if line == "bla":
        do something incredibly interesting
    else:
        print line
    


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From twic at urchin.earth.li  Thu Sep 25 19:33:46 2003
From: twic at urchin.earth.li (Tom Anderson)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:33:46 +0100
Subject: Another Python rookie trying to port to C/C++ question.
In-Reply-To: <b3Jcb.24430$dk4.777126@typhoon.sonic.net>
References: <GSGcb.24394$dk4.776543@typhoon.sonic.net> <8yoc1wwt.fsf@python.net>
 <b3Jcb.24430$dk4.777126@typhoon.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309260022410.21689-100000@urchin.earth.li>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Don Bruder wrote:

> In article <8yoc1wwt.fsf at python.net>,
>  Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
>
> > Don Bruder <dakidd at sonic.net> writes:
> >
> > [rewriting a Python program in C/C++]
> > > Something like this C construct:
> > >
> > > struct DictStruct
> > >    {
> > >       char    *KeyArray[<somenumber>];
> > >       ValType ValArray[<somenumber>];
> > >    }
> > >
> > [...]
> > > Similarly, would something like:
> > >
> > > struct DictStruct
> > >    {
> > >       char Key[25];
> > >       ValType Value;
> > >       DictStruct *PrevDictEntry;
> > >       DictStruct *NextDictEntry;
> > >    }
> > >
> > > [...] end up behaving at least reasonably like a Python "dict"?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Except that it would be less flexible, *much* slower, and
> > probably much more buggy.
>
> Well, since I'm not worried about "flexible", have my doubts about the
> "much slower" part,

think again. python's dictionaries use an efficient implementation, are
written in C, and have been tuned over the course of several years. your
sketched design uses a very slow implementation, and is brand new.

> and have no reason to believe that choice of language automatically
> makes a routine buggy,

it's maturity that matters in this case; you will make mistakes, just like
the python (and STL) implementers did, but they've already had years to
find and fix them.

if you don't fancy using STL (which will be the case if you're steering
clear of C++ - and might well be even if you weren't!), at least go and
read up on how to implement dictionaries; they're a very well-studied
abstract type. hashtables are simple and efficient, and binary trees are
good too. there are more complicated things like ternary trees, red-black
trees, Patricia trees (my personal favourite :) ) and skip lists, but
you'll probably be fine with hashtables. if you can lay your hands on a
good data structures and algorithms textbook, you'll be fine (Sedgewick's
'Algorithms in C' is where i learnt my craft).

tom

-- 
Things fall apart - it's scientific




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Tue Sep 23 14:26:00 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:26:00 +0100
Subject: Thoughts on PEP315
References: <oalumvopu9afuhno85tbp2erl52rk9hht1@4ax.com> <vmv9hsp53qfi18@news.supernews.com> <medvmv0af0nsr2pkgm2fhtaq5iphtthamo@4ax.com> <t2l0nv8914nfnmbtl65265sfut8dujt40f@4ax.com> <ebt0nvckrjv0or52pdmi8ghe147006ioi9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <kl31nvk4j0lhsbmeg9pra3c4mh78rrkivp@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:49:46 +0100, Stephen Horne
<$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote:

>Maybe - but in my reading of Johns suggestion the 'while' was just a
>statement like the existing 'break' or 'continue' (hence the lack of a
>colon). So you could legally write...

He's clarified that one now.

>  while True :
>    blah; blah; blah; blah
>    blah; blah; blah; blah
>  break if condition :
>    blah; blah; blah; blah
>    blah; blah; blah; blah

That makes me twitchy: looks like the thin end of a wedge to Perl and
Ruby's <statement> if <condition> construct.

>In itself, I don't think my suggestion is compelling - but as an
>alternative to the existing PEP315, on the assumption that some change
>is going to happen, I think my idea has significant merit.

Oh, better than PEP315 certainly.  I still don't like it :-)



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Sep 21 19:08:55 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:08:55 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Re: [OT] New Play: SPAMELOT
In-Reply-To: <20030919140952.4a6583b5.wtrenker@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPLGAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[William Trenker]
> ...
> I would also nominate Spambayes as Python App of the Year!

We're close enough to the end of 2003 that we had better count that vote for
2004 too <wink>.

> Spambayes certainly is a showcase of the sophistication, and
> practicality, that can be achieved using Python 'out of the box'.

Those who helped with the early development were probably most impressed by
the speed of development Python allowed:  the first implementation of
spambayes was conceived, written, and working all in one day.  It was (of
course) much simpler then, had no real email interface apart from sucking up
files containing messages, and we'll overlook that the Outlook addin
threatens to consume the rest of Mark Hammond's life.  Other than those, it
went really fast <wink>.





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Sep  8 18:12:30 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:12:30 -0400
Subject: enum in Python
References: <KF67b.33$fd2.25@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <t877b.1483$fC5.398248@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Andrew Chalk" <achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote in message
news:KF67b.33$fd2.25 at newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> What is the best way to implement an equivalent of C's 'enum' type in
> Python?
>
> As a rank Python beginner I've used a dictionary, but presumably there is
a
> better way.
>
> Thanks
>
>

Hi.

This c.l.py thread may be helpful:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-February/149342.html

as may this cookbook recipe:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/67107






From sheu at bu.edu  Fri Sep 19 12:55:23 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:55:23 -0400
Subject: \r for newline in readlines function
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422CCB570A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <3F6B34FB.4040405@bu.edu>

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From mnhenley at msn.com  Tue Sep  2 11:27:03 2003
From: mnhenley at msn.com (Mike Henley)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:27:03 -0700
Subject: what's wrong with REBOL?
Message-ID: <6005702b.0309020727.4ba46e78@posting.google.com>

I first came across rebol a while ago; it seemed interesting but then
i was put off by its proprietary nature, although the core of the
language is a free download.

Recently however, i can't help but say i was totally impressed. I
needed an open source wikiblog/wikilog, whatever you wanna call it,
basically a hybrid of a blog and a wiki. I checked out snipsnap, which
uses java, it was said on their site to be a clone of vanilla, a
wikilog written with rebol. I wanted an open source thing so i could
modify it to my needs.

snipsnap turned out to be, even apparent on the first day of use, way
too far from being mature and reliable, and although they said it
doesn't require a server, it required a download of the sun java sdk,
which, when installed, was well over 400Mbs of space on my hard drive.
Not to mention another over 100Mbs for the JVM.

So as i needed a mature enough solution, but liked the way snipsnap
worked, i looked around, and on freshmeat i found vanilla, with a
development status of 5; production/stable. I went to its site, where
a working demo impressed with its capabilities. The site is though
poorly documented, very poorly documented i had to use trial and error
to work out how to install it. Anyhow, what impressed me was that the
download, which was less than half a megabyte, installed vanilla,
which is the wikilog, an apache server, and the rebol interpreter,
which is the free download version. And it self-installed! It turned
out to be a very very capable wikilog, and highly extensible. I am
still amazed and impressed by it after a couple of days of use.

Rebol itself seemed a very easy to read language. Sorta like ho
readable SQL is. I might even say more readable than python or ruby,
or at least as readable.

I have the intention to learn it over the coming few days, at least to
customize vanilla to my needs.

So i ask you guys, what's wrong with Rebol? i mean other than it's
proprietary nature. 'cos anyway, there are many commercial IDEs for
open source languages, and if smitten enough i might even consider a
rebol SDK. It just amazes me for how readable it is, how much it seems
to enable to do with so little code, and the size and capability of
the final solution.

What's wrong with Rebol?



From tonguc at tonguc.ath.cx  Sun Sep  7 03:37:12 2003
From: tonguc at tonguc.ath.cx (=?iso-8859-9?Q?Tongu=E7?= Yumruk)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:37:12 +0300
Subject: Package importing problem
Message-ID: <20030907073712.GA762@Serafettin.fazlamesai.net>

Hi,

I'm writing a plugin based application with python 2.1 but I really have
some trouble with creating a package. My directory structure is:


Skib/Server/Python/:
skib
skibserver

	Skib/Server/Python/skib:
		__init__.py
		PluginManager.py
		plugins

		Skib/Server/Python/skib/plugins:
			default
			__init__.py

			Skib/Server/Python/skib/plugins/default:
				default.py
				__init__.py

in all the __init__.py files I have the __all__=["blah","blah"]
statement. When I try it as:

from skib import PluginManager
PluginManager.init_plugins()

It works. But when I try it like that:

import skib
skib.PluginManager.init_plugins()

It raises AttributeError and complains that there is nothing called
PluginManager. Subpackages also behave like that. The __init__.py files
only contain the __all__ directive. No actual code are in them. Am I
missing a point?

Thanks.

-- 
Love, Respect, Linux
############################################################################
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
############################################################################
Tongu? Yumruk
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From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Sep 23 13:09:13 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:09:13 GMT
Subject: Compiling informxidb-1.3 on python2.2?
References: <bc2ee265.0309221612.37ed0840@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbmvjva.t30.rmunn@rmunnlfs.dyndns.org>

Mike S. <msajec at ieee.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Has anyone had success compiling the informixdb-1.3 module under
> python 2.2?  It seems the absense of makefile.pre.in in python 2.2
> causes the break under py2.2. Is there an easy way around this.  I've
> heard rumors of a manual method, but have been unable to track down
> details.  Any help is very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike

Here's the step-by-step notes I wrote for myself when I had to do
exactly that back in May:

Steps in installing the informixdb module:

1. Download informixdb source from
   http://starship.python.net/crew/sturner/informixdb.html
2. Untar, run configure
3. Edit ext/Makefile: change CFLAGS (line 100) to include
   -I${INFORMIXDIR}/incl/esql
4. Cd into ext directory
5. Run "esql _informix.ec" to generate _informix.c file
6. Cd back into parent directory
7. Run make
8. Copy informixdb.py and ext/_informixdb.so into
   /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/

I hope this helps. I did this install on a Red Hat machine that had the
Informix SDK installed, so I had the esql command available. If you
don't have esql available, then I'm not sure what you'll need to do.

Good luck!

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> | http://www.rmunn.com/ | PGP key 0x6AFB6838
-----------------------------+-----------------------+----------------------
"Remember, when it comes to commercial TV, the program is not the product.
YOU are the product, and the advertiser is the customer." - Mark W. Schumann



From eric.wichterich at gmx.de  Thu Sep 25 20:02:23 2003
From: eric.wichterich at gmx.de (Eric Wichterich)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 02:02:23 +0200
Subject: Python for CGI scripting
In-Reply-To: <20030925224602.14262.14256.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <B4F5FC09-EFB4-11D7-B131-00039315E356@gmx.de>

Hello Mark,

have a look at
O'Reilly "Programming Python" by Mark Lutz, topic "Internet Scripting" 
(page 513ff.). It helped me a lot to get started writing scripts for 
internet applications.

Good luck,
Eric


Am Freitag, 26.09.03 um 00:46 Uhr schrieb 
python-list-request at python.org:

> Von: "mark" <mark at diversiform.com>
> Datum: Do, 25. Sep 2003  23:58:03 Europe/Berlin
> An: <python-list at python.org>
> Betreff: Python for CGI scripting
>
>
> I am beginning to get interested in how I can use Python in place of 
> something like Java for Website scripting.?Are there any books on 
> this, or any tutorials on the Web I could read??Any help is 
> appreciated.
>
> ?
>
> - Mark
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From mwh at python.net  Tue Sep 30 10:38:23 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:38:23 GMT
Subject: Fun with fancy slicing
References: <slrnbniddg.ldu.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <7h3isnaz6qw.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Dave Benjamin <ramen at lackingtalent.com> writes:

> Anyone have any other interesting applications of the extended slice syntax?

You can use it in a sieve prime finder (ooh, thread crossing :-):

/>> def sieve(p):
|..     candidates = range(p)
|..     for i in candidates[2:]:
|..         if not candidates[i]: continue
|..         n = len(candidates[2*i::i])
|..         candidates[2*i::i] = [0]*n
|..     return filter(None, candidates[2:])
\__ 
->> sieve(50)
[2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47]

but it's not especially efficient (in speed or memory).  Quite cute,
though.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  A typical luser can perform truly superhuman feats of strength &
  dexterity to avoid reading documentation.             -- Lionel, asr



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Sep  3 14:49:50 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:49:50 -0500
Subject: Location of bytecode files (pyc)
In-Reply-To: <6f03c4a5.0309031028.3df1711c@posting.google.com>
References: <6f03c4a5.0309021745.3a79d951@posting.google.com>
        <3f55de7b@shknews01>
        <6f03c4a5.0309031028.3df1711c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16214.14286.272760.247766@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Rim> As Bengt suggest, adding yet another env var to control the
    Rim> operation of an application polutes the name space for all
    Rim> applications, but each app only needs to look at the variables it
    Rim> is concerned with.  PYTHONBYTECODEBASE is a cleaner approach that
    Rim> has less overhead than a configuration file. Also, env variables
    Rim> are directly usable in makefiles, which makes them very attractive
    Rim> and easy to use for managing where compiler output goes.

You can also set sys.bytecodebase in your application code instead of
relying on PYTHONBYTECODEBASE.  That may not be helpful when doing a big pyc
compile, as when running compileall.py.  In that case, you can simply set
PYTHONBYTECODE base for that specific command.  Still, in your environment,
it sounds like you'd want to set it in the /etc/profile (or similar).  It
could still be set to a user-specific directory, just one that's on a
filesystem which is not backed up.

The intention was that the most common usage would be for a person to
execute something like

    PYTHONBYTECODEBASE=/tmp/$USER/python ; export PYTHONBYTECODEBASE

in their .profile (or equivalent for non-sh-style shells or platforms).
Clearly, other usage is possible however.

Skip




From domma at procoders.net  Sun Sep 21 05:02:07 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:02:07 +0200
Subject: XML/XSLT with Python
References: <mailman.1064090130.16541.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bkjpeb$uv8$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Have you looked at http://pyana.sourceforge.net/? I'm quite happy with it.

Achim





From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Sep 30 14:10:28 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:10:28 -0700
Subject: IDE with a specific feature
In-Reply-To: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>; from danielk@aracnet.com on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 09:29:12PM -0700
References: <j7ocnvshp0jar2duskdgpd92qc7blvf8t0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030930111028.J15392@ActiveState.com>

[Daniel Klein wrote]
> I don't want to get into a 'which IDE is the best' conversation. I'm
> looking for an IDE that has the ability to view 2 (or more)
> methods/functions within the same module simultaneously.
> 
> I've looked at the screen shots for Komodo, Wing, BlackAdder, etc and
> it is not obvious that any of them have this feature.
> 
> This is something I got use to in Smalltalk and have found it quite
> useful when working on several methods that work closely together.
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Daniel,

You can do this in Komodo 2.5 (recently released) with "split view":
    - open your file
    - right-click on the tab and select "Split View"

The screen shot on this page shows an example of "dlg_tcl_check.tcl"
being shown in split view:
    http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/

Cheers,
Trent (Komodo Developer)

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From tcronj at ananzi.co.za  Wed Sep 24 09:15:25 2003
From: tcronj at ananzi.co.za (tertius)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:15:25 +0200
Subject: printing API
Message-ID: <3f7198db$0$64728@hades.is.co.za>

Hi,

I need advice on printing from python. The reports are simple text-based 
pre-formatted HTML files that must be send to a printer.
I was hoping that there is a way to print the report making use of the 
existing HTML functionality of Netscape or IE.

I found an example of creating Word docs on Mark Hammond's site 
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/ppw32 but would preferable like 
to stay away from  Offi$e 2000++.

I also found some PDF creation samples but I'd prefer to stick to simple
text based format. I plan to use HTML templates that can then be 
modified by the user and merged by a python script.

Any ideas will be appreciated.

Many thanks
Tertius




From sheu at bu.edu  Sat Sep 20 15:23:58 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 15:23:58 -0400
Subject: raw string
Message-ID: <3F6CA94E.5060402@bu.edu>

You should assign your variable a raw string, not putting the r to the

variable name

>>> name = r"kr\xdf6;ger"
>>> name.replace('\\', '&#')
'kr&#xdf6;ger'

-shushien

>I can do the following replacement:
>
>r"kr\xdf6;ger".replace('\\','&#')
>-> 'kr&#xdf6;ger'
>
>But how can I do this using a variable which contains the above string? 
>Obviously, the following code returns not the string with replacement 
>but the name of the variable itself:
>
>name = "kr\xdf6;ger"
>r"name".replace('\\','&#')
>-> 'r"name"
>
>Sorry, if this is a stupid question but I have not found an answer so 
>far (or I have been using the wrong keywords for searching).
>
>Thanks for any help.
>Regards,
>Marc
>  
>








From donhiatt at acm.org  Fri Sep  5 13:27:05 2003
From: donhiatt at acm.org (Don Hiatt)
Date: 5 Sep 2003 10:27:05 -0700
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <2b012c5e.0309050927.1ccb44e@posting.google.com>

Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> wrote in message news:<opruzmelopdd8opo at news.vo.lu>...
> anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I would like 
> to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have read in the last 
> few years, about Python or IT in general.
> 

Although not a python book, you might find "Emma Goldman: A
Documentary History of the American Years, 1" good for your soul (just
like python). :-)

   http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9079.html

Cheers,

don



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Sep  3 16:46:59 2003
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:46:59 -0400
Subject: How to accelerate  python application GUI speed
In-Reply-To: <-aOdndsss-PdmMuiRVn-vg@giganews.com>
References: <43e3984e.0309030532.3fe88bbc@posting.google.com> <-aOdndsss-PdmMuiRVn-vg@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3f565312$0$559$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

You will always take a hit using threading and a gui.  I agree with your 
complaints about wxPython's size though.  I'm not quite sure what you 
mean by wxPython is "slow" though.  Do you mean that running your code 
inside wxPython is slow?

Qualitatively, when using wxPython and QT I've encountered about a 30% 
speed hit when using threads.

I'll assume that your bit-torrent code has a pretty simple interface, 
such as "download this file to here", "I'm X percent done" and "cancel 
the download"

If this is the case, you might be interested in using wxProcess to spawn 
a new python process and then monitor the new processes stdout to update 
a progress bar or a dialog box.

The benefits are as follows:
1) Easy to kill a process.
2) The process doesn't get blocked by the GIL and can run with (just 
about) full CPU power.

Downsides:
1) python needs to be in your path and the python path has to be
  set up correctly to load your code.
2) wxProcess doesn't work on OS X yet.

My code is pretty ugly, but I am using it in a production environment. 
Let me know if you want me to post it here (it comes with an example).

-- 
Brian Kelley                                  bkelley at wi.mit.edu
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research   617 258-6191




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Sep 26 13:32:14 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:32:14 -0400
Subject: Comment on PEP-0322:  Reverse Iteration Methods
References: <95rcb.2002$yU5.1775@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7da8d8f8.0309242347.48c2f31e@posting.google.com> <wCGcb.3064$yU5.2141@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <8RScb.169633$R32.5449258@news2.tin.it> <uk77vhagj.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <WNYcb.12686$yD1.1505440@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <dJ_cb.13620$yD1.1517951@news20.bellglobal.com>

"David Eppstein" <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:eppstein-B529F3.09181826092003 at news.service.uci.edu...
[snip]
> ireverse, like imap(), izip(), etc., suggests that the operation happens
> without the memory overhead of copying the whole sequence into a list
> before reversing it.  Do you have some plan for how to do that e.g. with
> simple generators?  Or easy to understand explanation for which things
> can be ireversed and which can't?
>

Nope. Nor have I intimated I had such, nor that any would be forthcoming.
This is a naming suggestion. I am neither the originator of the proposal nor
a proponent of it, so I see no reason to formulate such a plan nor to give
an explanation of how it should be accomplished. I saw a name, and offered
another. That is all.

P1: "If I make this thing, I propose to call it 'ShomozzleBoB'."
P2: "Really? How about just BoB?"
P3: "Do you have a plan for how to do BoB?"
P2: "Huh?"







From DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org  Fri Sep 26 05:28:12 2003
From: DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org (DeepBleu)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:28:12 GMT
Subject: Passing a String to a Python CGI Script
References: <AY3cb.104524$834.93516@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <METcb.113316$z32.83149@twister.austin.rr.com>

I'll reword that:
A client is writing a string to the web server (IPlanet on a Sun Server)
using a java program.  The client then establishes a connection with a cgi
Python program on the server.  This client wants the string to be passed
into this cgi Python script on the server.
There are no name=value request pairs.  How can this cgi Python script read
the string sent to the web server.  The client is POSTING the string as a
REQUEST.  For the Pythong cgi script I am using CGI module to handle
requests and responses.  However, how do you handle this REQUEST?

"DeepBleu" <DeepBleu at DeepBleu.org> wrote in message
news:AY3cb.104524$834.93516 at twister.austin.rr.com...
> When one is using an HTML form via a web broswer, the user submits the
form
> contents and these are passed to a CGI Python script on the web server.
> I need to write a client script that connects to a web site, runs a Python
> CGI script on the web server AND passes a string to the CGI Python script
> that the Python CGI script can store/manipulate/evalute etc....
> I know how to connect to the web site and run the CGI Python script using
a
> client Python script with the urllib module.  But how do I submit/send a
> string via this client Python script to the web server on behalf of the
CGI
> Python script?  Can someone give me a clue or a hint on how to do that?
Do
> I write the string to the web server?  If so, how would the CGI Python
> script know about it, read it, and store it?
> Thanks,
> DeepBleu
>
>





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Sep 12 09:51:50 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:51:50 -0400
Subject: Metaclasses presentation slides available...
References: <mailman.1062101481.30815.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <29cY/ks/Kv1B089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <mailman.1062101481.30815.python-list at python.org>,
"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>Slides from my PyGTA presentation on Tuesday, focusing mostly on
>why/where you would want to use meta-classes, are available in PDF format:
>
>  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/programming/metaclasses.pdf

   Very nice!  Particularly the very focussed code examples.
I'd been over the python.org site (with an idea for classes
that register themselves in a list for selection later) and
I'd read a lot of information, but couldn't figure out what
to actually do until I'd read your slides and messed with
the sample code.

        Thanks.         Mel.

   FWIW, the result, A Graphic Sort-Algorithm
Demonstration, is available under
<http://www.the-wire.com/~mwilson/python/>



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Sep 17 03:06:32 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:06:32 +0300
Subject: Python exercises
References: <3d19203b.0309162207.153b9922@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7v1gmvsjqitme00ioe97n4g5r81ti4gclq@4ax.com>

On 16 Sep 2003 23:07:28 -0700, rumours say that gcraib at hotmail.com
(Gordon) might have written:

>I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of some
>online exercises to help me learn to program (in Python).
>
>I'm currently working through Magnus Hetland's Practical Python, which
>doesn't have any exercises/problem sets (for the beginning chapters on
>things like string manipulation etc). I'd rather not get another book.

Did you check all the links in the following page?

http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Sep  4 10:23:24 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:23:24 +0300
Subject: question: How can I put empty directories into a zip-archive?
References: <3F574431.6020902@snafu.de>
Message-ID: <f5ielv41t0tcs8p1n2mp6le94kljhjcb3l@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:54:57 +0200, rumours say that "T. Kaufmann"
<merman at snafu.de> might have written:

>Hi there,
>
>in my directory are some 'normal' files like *.py sources and some empty 
>directories too. How can I put all togehter into a zip-archive?
>
>There is no problem to zip the *.py files but if I try to add empty directories 
>  an exception is trown.

This is not a direct reply to your problem, but just my 2 eurocents of
information gathered the last five minutes.

Creating a zip file with an external program, one can see that the zip
format seems to include directories, empty and non-empty (or so the
zipfile module helps us discover, when reading the externally created
zip file).
The only difference I found out so far is that the external_attr is
2172649504L (0x81800020) for files and 1103101968 (0x41c00010) for
directories.  Perhaps it's a bug in the zipinfo module, but I can't
check SF at the moment.

z= zipfile.ZipFile("c:/temp/ax.zip")
for fi in z.infolist():
    print fi.filename, fi.external_attr
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Sep 23 06:22:50 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:22:50 GMT
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com> <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com> <eppstein-E0F40C.21003222092003@news.service.uci.edu> <cthvmvk3uif5qt1hkftmp2hbdia74fjq3d@4ax.com> <bkp40c$j0o$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <_9Vbb.105320$hE5.3711223@news1.tin.it>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:

> Stephen Horne wrote:
>>   for i in int [0:10:2] :
>>     ...
>>
>> that is, allow the 'int' type object to be sliced, and return an
>> iterator as the result - not just for the for loop, but generally
>> (though optimising the 'for' loop usage to avoid physically creating
>> the iterator might be a good idea).
> 
> Adding operators to types is always problematic because it defeats
> Pythons's runtime checking. Assuming that integer slicing would be added
> to Python, methods that would expect a list of integers would suddenly
> also work with integers. In most cases, they would not work correctly, but
> you wouldn't get a meaningful exception.

Careful: in Stephen's proposal, slicing would NOT work on *INTEGERS* --
rather, it would work on the *INT TYPE ITSELF*, which is a very, very
different issue.  "Methods that would expect a list of integers", ONLY
do slicing on that list, AND get mistakenly passed the type object
'int' itself -- would work just perfectly, as if they had been passed
"a list of all non-negative integers" or xrange(sys.maxint+1).


>> Also, one extra feature is that the loop can be infinite (which range
>> and xrange cannot achieve)...
>>
>>   for i in int [0:] :

No way, Jose -- now THAT would break things (in admittedly rare
cases -- a method expecting a list and NOT providing an upper bound
in the slicing).  I'd vote for this to be like int[0:sys.maxint+1]
(i.e., last item returned is sys.maxint).

>>     ...
>>     if condition : break
>>     ...
> 
> I'm sure that you can think of a generator function that does exactly the
> same.

Right, that's pretty trivial, and itertools.count() already does it anyway.


What Stephen's proposal lacks is rigorous specs of what happens for all
possible slices -- e.g int[0:-3] isn't immediately intuitive, IMHO;-).


Alex




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Sep 16 09:03:32 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:03:32 +0300
Subject: irritating problem
References: <20030915150042.22749.00001062@mb-m23.aol.com> <3F6621C3.56525D6B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bd2emvs3iudboip3pnrnoaid1in4bmgld6@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:32:03 -0400, rumours say that Peter Hansen
<peter at engcorp.com> might have written:

[snip]
>(isn't Windows wonderful?! Truly those at 
>Microsoft are masters of good user interface design!)
[snip]

Playing the devil's advocate, an old joke about intuitive interfaces
comes to mind (a recent reference:
http://groups.google.com.gr/groups?selm=pan.2003.03.26.19.06.08.459736%40deadspam.com
:)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Sep 22 11:30:13 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:30:13 +0200
Subject: py2exe: dynamic module does not define init function
In-Reply-To: <0fEbb.101429$hE5.3567510@news1.tin.it>
References: <81zbb.99124$hE5.3508075@news1.tin.it>
	<FoCbb.100492$hE5.3545186@news1.tin.it>
	<qaDbb.101005$hE5.3554558@news1.tin.it>
	<SZDbb.140624$R32.4432440@news2.tin.it>
	<0fEbb.101429$hE5.3567510@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F6F1585.6070407@ghaering.de>

Alessandro Crugnola *sephiroth* wrote:
> [...] audiere.dll and .pyd are in my DLL python folder [...]

Name your extension module other than the DLL you wrap with it. E. g.

pyaudiere.pyd => audiere.dll or
_audiere.pyd  => audiere.dll

Anything else is creating real or potential problems you'd want to avoid.

In your case I'm pretty sure Python tries to load "audiere.dll", which 
of course doesn't export the initaudiere module initialization function, 
so you get the error you, uhm, get :-)

-- Gerhard




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Sep  1 17:30:08 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 01 Sep 2003 23:30:08 +0200
Subject: access to glibc-2.3 threaded locale API
References: <3f535b30@news.mt.net.mk>
Message-ID: <m3llt8p57j.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

?????? ?. <mk at net.mail.penguinista> writes:

> Is there Python support for this feature?

No, but contributions to wrap newlocale/uselocale/freelocale would be
accepted. 

I'm not sure whether all _l functions need to get exposed as well,
though. I'd then rather prefer to have proper "locale" objects (with
isalnum methods etc.); this would require a PEP.

Regards,
Martin



From timr at probo.com  Fri Sep  5 00:44:16 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:44:16 -0700
Subject: Tracking Sessions in a Python CGI app.
References: <E3L5b.1175$U45.838@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <615glvs9fvcop06i73iqjtri0k46tiqrnc@4ax.com>

"Andrew Chalk" <achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote:
>
>Is there a unique session ID created in a Python CGI app.?

No.  Each transaction in a web server is separate.  There is no concept of
"sessions".

>If not, and I suspect not, what is the best way to keep track of the session
>that loads each web page? I need to store form data from multiple forms
>completed by the user. What is the best way to keep track of which user is
>which?

One common way is to generate a random number as a session ID and send it
to the client as a cookie.  Another way is to embed the session ID in a
<input type=hidden> field, but then you have to remember to carry that
forward in ALL the forms.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From sheu at bu.edu  Thu Sep 18 12:39:26 2003
From: sheu at bu.edu (Shu-Hsien Sheu)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:39:26 -0400
Subject: file object: seek and close?
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FA4@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382FA4@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <3F69DFBE.1040808@bu.edu>

Here it is:
                f = open(pdb, 'r')
                type = 0
                for lines in f:
                    if lines[:6] == 'TITLE':
                        type = 1
                    if lines[:6] == 'COMPND':
                        break

                f.seek(0)
               
                if type == 0:
                    list = pdbdict_0()
                       for lines in f:
                ...................................
               
                if type==1:
                      list = pdbdict_1()
                      for lines in f:

So first the program use a criteria to check what type of the file is, 
and then do different operations from the beginning of the file.

-shuhsien

>#- f = open('somefile', 'r')
>#- for lines in f:
>#-     some operations
>#- f.seek(0)
>
>I think will be very useful if you detail what those "some operations" are.
>
>.	Facundo
>  
>






From mpeuser at web.de  Wed Sep  3 13:59:24 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:59:24 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
References: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj5a6s$eg2$02$1@news.t-online.com>

"Jane Austine" <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a at posting.google.com...
> As you add more items, say text lines, in Text widget, it gets too
> slow and almost impractical to use on. Take idle for example. If the
> text gets bigger(e.g. print
> urllib.urlopen('http://www.amazon.com').read() ), it becomes too
> sluggish to use as an "interactive" shell.
>
> I have tried wxPython and it seems to have the same problem (from my
> experience using PyCrust).
>
> Is there any way to speed up Text widget, or should I look for another
> GUI library?

This seems to be a problem with most naivly written wigdets which store
their data in some internal format. What I have done several times is
writing my own widgets. This is possible for Tkinter by using Fredrik
Lundh's WCK (Widget Construction Kit)
http://effbot.org/zone/wck.htm
He has some tutorials and the whole thing is well integrated in Tkinter. He
especially has a tutorial on using HUGE datasets.

Of course you have to undergo some programming for all the features you
would want to use in your text widget. (Highliting, linebreaks,..etc)

I implemented a binary editor some time ago, which is extremely fast with
even a 100 MB file. (For I/O it used memory mapped files, but this is not
the reason it is fast; it just simplified the programmin :-))

Kindly
Michael P






From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Sep 17 09:35:50 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:35:50 -0600
Subject: Checking if the computer is online
In-Reply-To: <y8wmfu6t.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1063865847.25960.python-list@python.org> <y8wmfu6t.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <200309170735.50474.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 18 September 2003 01:10 am, Thomas Heller wrote:
> Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have a silly question. Is there are simple way to check if the computer
> > is connected to the Internet? It seems this should be a pretty
> > straight-forward thing to do, but as I am totally unfamiliar with sockets
> > and such, I ask for your help before getting my hands dirty.
>
> For windows?
>
> <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.windows/969>

The problem with the InternetGetConnectedState API is that, at least on older 
versions of Windows/Internet Explorer, it relies on the settings of Internet 
Explorer rather than the true state of the connection. In other words, it 
would return an incorrect answer if Netscape was the only browser ever used. 
Also, it doesn't work in a connection sharing setup (e.g. your computer is on 
a home LAN that is connected to another computer with a modem.

Maybe this is way more than the OP needs, but I'll post it anyway because it's 
tough to reliably detect the connected state. After much painstaking 
experimentation :) I came up with a fairly decent method of knowing if the 
current computer is really connected to the Internet using a combination of 
all sorts of info available (works on Windows using ctypes). It turns out 
that there is no single API to call, and some APIs give unreliable info, and 
others will cause your modem to go online if you're not online, so they must 
be avoided. 

Here's a breakdown of the determination process that works for me:

- First and foremost, if your application is currently downloading or 
uploading then you know you're online. At first it seems silly, but it's 
actually a pretty reliable nugget of info, so my connection detection lib has 
a SetOnlineHint(isOnline) API that the app calls periodically (internally my 
library uses an exponential moving average to "degrade" this value over time 
so that if it falls below some threshold then the library doesn't consider it 
to be accurate enough to rely on and moves to the next method of detection).

- Call the GetTcpTable API and get a list of all IP addresses whose rows have 
the dwState of MIB_TCP_STATE_ESTAB. Then filter out all IP addresses 
127.0.0.1, 10.* 192.168.*, and 172.16* through 172.31.*. If the remaining 
list is non-empty, something on this computer is most likely connected to a 
public IP address, so it's fairly safe to assume you're online

- If RasEnumConnections gives a non-empty list then you're online (but don't 
assume the converse is true)

- If the IsNetworkAlive API is supported and returns false, you're not online 
(But you can't rely on a "yes" answer from this API)

- If all the above don't yield any definite answers, then ping a known IP 
address (either by using raw sockets or by just calling os.popen('ping ...') 
and reading the output. Ping is nice because ICMP packets won't cause the 
modem to autodial if you're not online. My library has as a default the IP 
addresses of a bunch of well known servers (e.g. DNS root servers) to use in 
emergencies, but these are best avoided in all but the most extreme 
emergencies when it has no other IPs to use - it collects public IP addresses 
from the GetTcpTable call above, for example.

The library runs through this determination process every second or so in its 
own thread, pinging at most once every 5 or 10 seconds, and the application 
just queries a IsOnline API.

Convoluted, but it works, so it was worth the effort to put it in a separate 
library and never figure it out again. :)

-Dave




From bkc at Murkworks.com  Mon Sep 29 10:29:28 2003
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:29:28 -0400
Subject: py2exe, 2.3 and services (raising flag again)
References: <mailman.1064601277.12630.python-list@python.org> <brt7b9c7.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bl9fka$74h$1@sea.gmane.org>

Yes, I'd like to test your binary. I've sent you a message offline, Thanks

--
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5







From dave at 3dex.com  Thu Sep 11 21:01:41 2003
From: dave at 3dex.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:01:41 GMT
Subject: Flash Remoting in Python?
References: <7712111.0309111357.3be3b591@posting.google.com> <2E78b.1002$8g2.829@news1.central.cox.net> <E5WcnXLOoPRMiPyiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <VV88b.1024$8g2.587@news1.central.cox.net>

"Brett g Porter" <bgporter at artlogic.com> wrote in message
news:E5WcnXLOoPRMiPyiXTWJiQ at comcast.com...
> We've been using this XML-RPC library for Flash
> http://members.netmadeira.com/killer/xmlrpc/
>
> ...and have found that it serves our needs just fine.

Oh, sure, if you want to do it the logical, obvious way... ;)

I will note, however, that Flash's XML parser is slow, and WDDX is more
compact than XML-RPC (although it isn't, in itself, an RPC protocol, unlike
XML-RPC).

Dave





From fawcett at teksavvy.com  Mon Sep  8 10:29:48 2003
From: fawcett at teksavvy.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:29:48 -0400
Subject: Eureka! (Re: Comments on Python Redesign)
In-Reply-To: <3F5C0D5D.5090000@teksavvy.com>
References: <mailman.1062962051.23295.python-list@python.org> <c718a6cf.0309072024.5b78b14e@posting.google.com> <3F5C0D5D.5090000@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <3F5C925C.1070009@teksavvy.com>

Graham Fawcett wrote:

> Here. I think I've solved the problem once and for all.
>
> Rather than throw stones, I have created a *brand new design* design 
> for Python.org. I am certain that will satisfy both the technical 
> users and the suit-wearing investigators. It borrows the time-honoured 
> stylings of the old Python site, and blends them with some upscale 
> business moxy.
>
> Take a look:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/mlcv
>
> Sorry, there's no comments page. Please send your opinions to the 
> marketing SIG.
>
> P.S. It's not an image! Feel free to check out my kewl HTML coding 
> skills. I used CSS and everything.



Lest anyone (else) not catch the humorous intent of my message -- please 
DO NOT send your opinions to the marketing SIG. This was intended as a 
satirical reply to a c.l.python message -- I don't want to add noise to 
the python-marketing list.

-- Graham








From juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net  Sun Sep 14 21:24:47 2003
From: juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net (Changjune Kim)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:24:47 +0900
Subject: Building patterns
References: <bk2jah$ik8$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bk34ds$rrn$1@news.hananet.net>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:bk2jah$ik8$1 at panix3.panix.com...
> Seems that nobody has posted this URL to a transcript of Christopher
> Alexander's 1997 speech at OOPSLA:
>
> http://www.patternlanguage.com/archive/ieee/ieeetext.htm
>
> Figure that given all the talk about design patterns around here, y'all
> wanna go read that Right Now.  ;-)

And his most recent publication The Nature of Order series as well.  A New
Theory Of Urban Design is recommended, too.







From uce at ftc.gov  Thu Sep 11 20:27:01 2003
From: uce at ftc.gov (Gordon Airport)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:27:01 -0400
Subject: Canvas - Rectangle. Is there an easy way to detect if you're
 inside?
In-Reply-To: <4378fa6f.0309111159.7a9bb539@posting.google.com>
References: <4378fa6f.0309111159.7a9bb539@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ekCdneV55u9Ij_yiXTWJhA@comcast.com>

Have you tried find_closest?
Given a click event...

x = cv.canvasx( event.x )
y = cv.canvasy( event.y )
cvid = cv.find_closest( x, y )[0]
cv.itemconfig( cvid, fill = 'black' )





From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Sep 22 15:04:43 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:04:43 +0200
Subject: Playing with dictionaries
References: <10c662fe.0309220907.a84bea5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bknh6b$i83$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Roberto A. F. De Almeida wrote:

> Suppose I have a dictionary containg nested dictionaries. Something
> like this:
> 
>>>> pprint.pprint(dataset)
> {'casts': {'experimenter': None,
>            'location': {'latitude': None,
>                         'longitude': None},
>            'time': None,
>            'xbt': {'depth': None,
>                    'temperature': None}},
>  'catalog_number': None,
>  'z': {'array': {'z': None},
>        'maps': {'lat': None,
>                 'lon': None}}}
> 
> I want to assign to the values in the dictionary the hierarchy of keys
> to it. For example:
> 
>>>> dataset['casts']['experimenter'] = 'casts.experimenter'
>>>> dataset['z']['array']['z'] = 'z.array.z'
> 
> Of course I would like to do this automatically, independent of the
> structure of the dictionary. Is there an easy way to do it?

class Dict:
    def __init__(self, name=None, parent=None):
        self.name = name
        self.parent = parent
    def __getitem__(self, name):
        return Dict(name, self)
    def __str__(self):
        if self.parent and self.parent.parent:
            return ".".join((str(self.parent), self.name))
        elif self.name is not None:
            return self.name
        return "I warned you"


d = Dict()
print d['casts']
print d['casts']['experimenter']
print d['casts']['location']['latitude']
#print d # do not uncomment

Seems to work :-)
I doubt that anybody can come up with something more automatic or more
independent of the structure of the dictionary than the above. And it was
easy, too, wasn't it?

Peter




From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Sun Sep  7 12:53:29 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 16:53:29 GMT
Subject: Ternery operator
Message-ID: <doJ6b.1999$Ft.737@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>

Is there a python equivalent of the C ternery operator?

I.e.:

fred = (x == 1) ? 12 : 15

If not, what's the best way to construct the same logic?

Regards





From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Mon Sep  1 03:07:41 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 09:07:41 +0200
Subject: Binary data handling ?
References: <mailman.1062079383.31727.python-list@python.org> <bac0lvor4dp5gd02gqbjjsn48rq91e0878@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c37057$bc02ed80$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

Indeed !

thanks !!!

if I use the 'wb' will it work on a unix system, too ?

~B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Binary data handling ?


> "Bill Loren" <lorenb2 at bezeqint.net> wrote:
> >
> >I'm having difficulties to accomplish some simple chores with binary
data.
> >I'm having a string (?) which I received via an HTTP transactions which
is a
> >binary file.
> >Problem is the webserver I'm communicating with injected a \x0D before
every
> >\x0A,
> >and I need to remove those 0x0D characters from my buffer before saving
it
> >to disk.
> >
> >any ideas ?
>
> I'll bet you real money that the problem is not in the web server.  I'd
> wager that the string is correct when you receive it, but that you are
> writing it to file like this:
>    file('out.txt','w').write(download)
>
> On a Windows system, that'll turn all the LFs into CR-LFs.  Use this
> instead:
>    file('out.txt','wb').write(download)
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From colarte at telesat.com.co  Tue Sep 23 04:24:07 2003
From: colarte at telesat.com.co (Camilo Olarte)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 03:24:07 -0500
Subject: compiling python program
In-Reply-To: <jVRbb.1943$Fq.1235@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>
References: <jVRbb.1943$Fq.1235@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <20030923032407.341f4011.colarte@telesat.com.co>

In a python-src distribution look for a tool called Freeze.py 
you can download it from sourceforge too..
You can also pack it with an utility you can find at : 

http://sebsauvage.net/python/
called pypack.py  
which encrypts the content of your py file but lets it yet runnable(Woa!!!) 
this is disencryptable ... but , to a non-python person its somewhat  hard to.

Camilo Olarte




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Sep 22 22:41:04 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:41:04 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on PEP284
References: <5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <SnObb.1581$PT3.257319@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Stephen Horne" <$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$@$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.co.uk> wrote in
message news:5j4vmvgnr5v68f6lupbpgt0mop6l7ps2sn at 4ax.com...
>
> Some more looping thoughts - this time on integer for loops...

Hi.
How about the following:

for i in 0...10:
    # suite

where 0...10 works something like xrange(10). So you get i=0 then 1 then 2
... then 9. To get 0 thru 10, inclusive, you'd need to say 0...11 (Ruby has
0..10, but I doubt that'd pass muster here).  This suggestion,
unfortunately, does not provide step control and I can't think of a clean
way to introduce it other than via keyword:

for i in 0...10 by 2:
    # suite

which will also be shot down, I suspect, as would

for i in 0 to 10 by 2:

for i in 0 thru 10 by 2:

etc.

Perhaps generators could grow a by() method so that you could control how
you step thru the iteration, something like this:

for i in 0...10.by(2):
    # suite

Whatever.

Leaving the ellipsis aside, you could add methods to int/long (also ala
Ruby),

for i in 0.upto(10):
    # suite

# to count down
for i in 10.downto(0):
    # suite

where the methods upto() and downto() are generators with an optional step
argument, i.e.

def upto(self, stop, step=1):
    # suite


And, after all of that, you could say, well we already have

for i in range(10):
    # suite

If only range was a generator function...but that'd break code, and you can
use xrange(), and some day it will(may) be, and ..., and ..., yada, yada,
yada.

Whatever.





From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Sep 18 09:02:54 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:02:54 +1000 (EST)
Subject: "tuple index out of range" side effect of C extension??
Message-ID: <20030918221732.H25840@bullseye.apana.org.au>

I'm seeing a bizarre situation where IndexErrors are being thrown with
"tuple index out of range" error strings.

The scenario is something like:

l = [(v1a, v1b), (v2a, v2b), ..., (vna, vnb)]

for a, b in l:
    ...



with the IndexError being thrown on the "for..." line after the last
element of l has been through the for loop.

I've also seen the same exception thrown on first access to an attribute
of a simple class.

The exception being thrown is not consistent, and reducing the number of
tuples and lists in the code seems to reduce the likelihood of the
exception being thrown.

The only thing unusual is the presence of a C extension which I am testing
- an Ingres DB interface module, most of whose functionality seems to work
when the IndexErrors don't get thrown.

Perusal of the source, while not exhaustive, hasn't turned up anything
obvious; other than the embedded SQL stuff it seems to be in tune with the
module layout in the Python docs.

The complications are:-
- I don't have MSVC, so can't build a standard Windows Python debug setup
  to really look at the internals;
- I built the module with MinGW32 1.1 (gcc 2.95.3, it compiles with only
  1 warning which surprised me a bit) and Python can't yet be built by
  MinGW (so that I could use gdb) AFAIK.

Platform is Windows2000.

Other than the obvious sources of this exception (attempting to explicitly
access a non-existent tuple element), googling turned up a reference to
this exception being encountered with Boost.Python based extensions which
doesn't seem to help as this module is pure C.

Has anyone ever encountered this sort of bizarreness while working with a
C extension?

Replies cc'ed to the reply-to address in addition to the list appreciated.

Thanks,
Andrew.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From mwh at python.net  Mon Sep  1 07:26:53 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:26:53 GMT
Subject: Hunting a memory leak
References: <slrnbkucfq.41o.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <7h3oey84qho.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <slrnbkv5h6.i5.falted@inspiron.openlc.org> <slrnbkv748.on.falted@inspiron.openlc.org>
Message-ID: <7h3y8x83g7d.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Francesc Alted <falted at openlc.org> writes:

> 
> As you can see, for the second loop (first output of TrackRefs), a lot
> of objects appear, but after the third loop (second output of
> TrackRefs), much less appear (only objects of type "int" and
> "type"). Besides, the increment of the total references for the second
> loop is only 7 while for the third loop is 212. Finally, to add even
> more confusion, these numbers are *totally* independent of the number
> of iterations I put in the loops. You see 10 in the code, but you can
> try with 100 (in one or all the loops) and you get exactly the same
> figures.
> 
> I definitely think that I have made a bad implementation of the try:
> code block, but I can't figure out what's going wrong.
> 
> I would appreciate some ideas.

In my experience of hunting these you want to call gc.collect() and
track.update() *inside* the loops.  Other functions you might want to
call are things like sre.purge(), _strptime.clear_cache(),
linecache.clearcache()... there's a seemingly unbounded number of
caches around that can interfere.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  A difference which makes no difference is no difference at all.
                        -- William James (I think.  Reference anyone?)



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Sep  9 07:41:46 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:41:46 -0400
Subject: What does the keyword 'global' really mean
References: <3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vlrf3i3t7mrp44@news.supernews.com>

"John Dean" <john at rygannon.com> wrote in message
news:3f5db3b6$0$252$fa0fcedb at lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> Hi
> I have been looking through some Python code and I came across the keyword
> 'global'. I have looked through the docs and two or three Python
programming
> books for a full explanation of what 'global' really means. Would I be
> correct in assuming that any variable prefixed with the keyword global
would
> allow that variable to be accessible across translation units, in other
> words global is equivalent to the 'C' keyword 'extern' ?

No. What global does is tell the compiler that assignments to that
identifier are at the module level, they are not local to the function or
method.

There is no equivalent to 'extern.' If you want to reference something
in another module, you import the module, then all the identifiers are
availible.

> Also, does Python have the equivalent of the 'C' keyword 'static'?

IIRC, static means that it's global to the compilation unit. Python does
not need such a keyword, just bind something at the module or class
level.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Best Regards
> John





From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Mon Sep  1 01:13:30 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 17:13:30 +1200
Subject: Python Documentation?
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1303064E59@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212ADE5@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> For functions and whatnot, there's the index of the Library 
> Reference, <http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/lib/genindex.html>.

Does anyone else wish that there was a link to this from the Global Module
Index (gmi)?  The second most common (after the gmi) thing that I do when
looking through the docs (a local copy) is go to the gmi, then to any random
module, then click the index link in the header.  Removing the gmi step
would be great.

Ok, yes, I could just have a bookmark.  But the space is already there, and
it would make the pages more consistent (the toc link could be there too,
although I never use it)...

I can submit a patch/feature request if anyone else agrees that this would
be a good thing.

=Tony Meyer





From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Sep  4 15:48:23 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 20:48:23 +0100
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <7xn0dkxu3m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <87llt4cp2w.fsf@pobox.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:
> Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> writes:
[...]
> > would like to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have
> > read in the last few years, about Python or IT in general.
> 
> Security Engineering, by Ross Anderson

Yes!  Haven't read the book, but looking at the breadth and depth of
his work makes you wonder what the computer security world would do
without this guy (and his grad. students, no doubt ;).


John



From nde at NOSPAMcomp.leeds.ac.uk  Fri Sep  5 08:30:41 2003
From: nde at NOSPAMcomp.leeds.ac.uk (N D Efford)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:30:41 GMT
Subject: OT: best book in years
References: <opruzmelopdd8opo@news.vo.lu> <7xn0dkxu3m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <HKqqr6.EKA@leeds.ac.uk>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Patrick Useldinger <p.useldinger at myrealbox.com> writes:
>> I am going to stay in hospital for a week or so (nothing serious), and
>> am trying to find a book or two to read there. As I have not come
>> across anything spectacular recently (except Python in a Nutshell), I
>> would like to know what *you* consider to be the best book you have
>> read in the last few years, about Python or IT in general.

> Security Engineering, by Ross Anderson

Yes, read this for its broad-ranging coverage.

Then, being a coder, why not look at the O'Reilly book
"Secure Coding: Principles and Practices", or Viega and McGraw's
"Building Secure Software".  Every C/C++ programmer should be
locked up until they've read these, and Pythoneers will probably
find much that is interesting and useful therein.


Nick



From glingl at aon.at  Sat Sep 20 16:30:44 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:30:44 +0200
Subject: Tkinter-PhotoImage question
Message-ID: <3F6CB8F4.8020001@aon.at>

Hi all,

The Tkinter PhotoImage Widget can be set to
"transparent" with the method blank().

Moreover the color of single pixels or
definite regions can be set with method put.

I'd like to set single pixels (or some rectangular
regions) to "transparent". Can I use put to
accomplish this, and if so, which first argument
("data") have I to pass to put?

If not, is there another way to do it?

Thanks, Gregor




From llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net  Tue Sep 30 04:46:37 2003
From: llafba_NOSPAM_ at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:46:37 +0200
Subject: append log file
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1064880157.2303.python-list@python.org>
References: <bla2rc$4b3$1@news.uni-kl.de> <mailman.1064866420.20978.python-list@python.org> <bla7s7$gbh$1@news.uni-kl.de> <mailman.1064880157.2303.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <blbg4d$si1$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Gary Herron wrote:

>I don't believe it is ascii.  The line (shown above) is extremely
>garbled, but it looks like a binary (or unicode) string garbled as it
>passes through you mail client while sending and my mail client while
>reading.
>       
>
Now it starts getting really weird. :-)
If I append my error info once to my log file, I can read it. If I 
append the same info twice to my log file it is garbled up like I 
discribed earlier. If I append it three times, I can rad it again. Well 
this is something I absolutely don't understand anymore. :-)
But it also looks like it is not neccessarily a python problem, because 
I also found out, that I only have problems viewing it if I view it with 
the Windows Text Editor. Then I tried to view it with Ultra Edit because 
I knew that it should work! And with Ultra Edit everything looked fine! 
I didn't expect these kind of problems with the windows editor because I 
never had problems before, but it looks like this is the source of the 
problem. Even though I don't understand why it just sometimes has this 
problem.

>So do this:
>  print type(ErrorInfo)
>and 
>  print `ErrorInfo`  # the back quotes are important here
>before you write it out and tell us the results.
>  
>
It is a string and the print out looks exactly like the one I want and 
sometimes even get. It consists of '0', '1', '2' and 'whitespace' only

>I think you'll find that the contents of ErrorInfo is not a string
>filled with only printable ascii characters.
>
>Gary Herron
>
Thanky for your help,
Tom




From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Thu Sep 18 08:12:36 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 18 Sep 2003 14:12:36 +0200
Subject: Closures in python
References: <9caba98e.0309180208.692e9b68@posting.google.com> <bkc5lv$5c4$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030918w8nt@bombur.uio.no>

'closure' is a much-abused word.
This is a closure over foo's x variable:

def foo():
  x = 3
  def bar():
    x += 1
    return x
  return bar

f = foo()
print f()  # print 4
g = foo()
print f()  # print 5
print g()  # print 4

...or it would be, if it worked.

-- 
Hallvard



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Sep 19 21:59:36 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:59:36 -0700
Subject: How you chomp in python
In-Reply-To: <36504F2E352484458C5D574719DC8372BAC618@caex01.trans.corp>
References: <36504F2E352484458C5D574719DC8372BAC618@caex01.trans.corp>
Message-ID: <200309191859.36549.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Friday 19 September 2003 06:43 pm, Fernando Armenta wrote:
> How you cut off the ^M at the end of a line? rstrip is not working.
>
>
>
> string.rstrip(build_number)
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
>
> -F

It works for me.  What is your evidence that it is not working?

>>> s = 'abc\n\r' # Has a ^M as last character
>>> print len(s)
5
>>> print len(string.rstrip(s)) # This works, 
3
>>> print len(s.rstrip())  # but this is preferred
3
>>>


Gary Herron






From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Sep  3 11:50:52 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:50:52 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Text widget getting too slow
References: <ba1e306f.0309030713.ef2ec4a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bj52vi$thu$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Jane Austine wrote:

> As you add more items, say text lines, in Text widget, it gets too
> slow and almost impractical to use on. Take idle for example. If the
> text gets bigger(e.g. print
> urllib.urlopen('http://www.amazon.com').read() ), it becomes too
> sluggish to use as an "interactive" shell.
> 
> I have tried wxPython and it seems to have the same problem (from my
> experience using PyCrust).
> 
> Is there any way to speed up Text widget, or should I look for another
> GUI library?
> 
> Jane

Does the same problem appear if you read a file of the same size from your
harddisk or is it just the web site that does not respond fast enough?

In this case you could put urlopen() into a separate thread.

Peter



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Sep 15 10:51:31 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:51:31 -0600
Subject: Win32 Com + ADO: How to compare the result of a recordset
  to 'nothing'
In-Reply-To: <tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500@news.indigo.ie>
References: <tvj9b.31786$pK2.53500@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030915084937.041dd5d8@66.28.54.253>

At 07:53 AM 9/15/2003, Felix McAllister wrote:
>[snip]
>The code is as follows:
>###########################3
>import win32com.client
>conn = win32com.client.Dispatch("ADODB.Connection")
>conn.ConnectionString = "Driver={SQL 
>Server};Server=(local);Database=Test;Trusted_Connection=yes;"
>conn.Open()
>rs = conn.Execute("TestSPXML")[0]
>xmlString = ""
>while rs != None:
>     rs.MoveFirst()    # FAILS HERE ON THE SECOND ITERATION OF THE LOOP
>     while not rs.EOF:
>         xmlString = xmlString + rs.Fields[0].Value
>         rs.MoveNext()
>     rs = rs.NextRecordSet()
>print xmlString
>conn.Close()

I am learning how to use ADODB with SQL Server, so your example is very 
timely. I know that I have to change the ConnectionString, as I get this 
error when running your example: "'Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC 
Drivers', '[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][Shared Memory]SQL Server 
does not exist or access denied.'"

What do I have to change?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Sep 29 21:37:25 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:37:25 +0300
Subject: Python mascot? How about a Pythoneer?
References: <b16e4ef7.0309281737.46423a88@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <sfnhnvo1qrkrgf8kq97gh07gq2aalqj9d5@4ax.com>

On 28 Sep 2003 18:37:37 -0700, rumours say that steve at ferg.org (Stephen
Ferg) might have written:

>(This page proves that Jennifer Connelly would also make a great
>Python mascot... I'm sure her presence would boost attendance at the
>IPCs.)

It would also lower comprehension of what the funny person at the podium
says and doesn't let attendants apprehend Jennifer's presence...

>http://www.superherophotos.net/serials/rocket.htm

-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Ils sont fous ces Redmontains! --Harddix



From ruach at chpc.utah.edu  Mon Sep 22 10:02:02 2003
From: ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 07:02:02 -0700
Subject: problem with user confirmation
References: <ec1162c7.0309181523.2077b7e5@posting.google.com> <bkdfg7$lga$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ec1162c7.0309220602.2aac39d0@posting.google.com>

That worked, thanks very much.

-matthew


"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bkdfg7$lga$1 at news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> "Matthew" <ruach at chpc.utah.edu> wrote in message
> news:ec1162c7.0309181523.2077b7e5 at posting.google.com...
> > I am have written a medium sized program and everything works fine
> > except for one piece. At a certain point in the program I want to do a
> > simple user confirmation, eg Are you sure ? y/n. The problem that I am
> > having is that after the user enters an answer and presses enter, the
> > program executes the rest of the code regardless of what the user
> > response was.
> >
> > Heres my code:
> >
> > def confirmAction(self, msg):
> > if not msg:
> > msg = 'Are you sure y/[n]> '
> > print msg
> > confirm = sys.stdin.readline()[:-1]
> > print 'confirm = \'%s\'' %(confirm)
> > if confirm == 'y' or 'Y' or 'Yes' or 'YES' or 'yes':
> > return 1
> > return 0
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 'Y' evaluates to true.
> 
> Maybe try something like:
> 
> if confirm in ['y', 'Y', 'Yes', 'YES', 'yes']:
> etc.
> 
> Duncan