Why don't people like lisp?

[Bjorn Pettersen]

mike420 at ziplip.com wrote in
news:H5HYEIKPLSJTEKMNMDDSOCN3CDJ0DXAGJ2OKFZFV at ziplip.com: 

> Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> 
>> "Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:<64Ilb.1525$I04.1503 at newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>>
>>> 
>>> Did you look at my example doing just that?  I built
>>> an AST for Python and converted it into a normal function.
> 
> 
> Andrew, 
> 
> If you are talking about your stack-based language, you had something
> like
> 
> "5 3 + b *"
> 
> Now, can you replace "3" with a Python expression, like
> "5 ( 3 + input() )  + b *" ? I don't think so. You'd have to change
> your whole parser at least, and even after that I'm not sure if you
> could do this.

Well, changing specs etc., however the above is probably not 
understandable to the poor domain engineer -- who finally had gotten a 
handle on the domain language and now suddenly he is seeing parenthesis 
and infix expressions...? Going through the tutorial and reference 
manual that came with the stack based language, he still can't figure it 
out, so he calls your tech support, it's escalated, and the next day 
it's dropped in your lap (and if you have a sensible manager) with 
instructions to rip out your abomination.

> IIRC, in Erann's Lisp version, you can. You can just write
> `(5 ,(+ 3 read) + b *)   instead of '(5 3 + b *) . That's what we mean
> by mixing different languages in one. 

You could try suggesting only to ship him a copy of the Lisp manuals?

The intertwined html/lisp example was laughable. What company would let 
a programmer/engineer deal with trivialitites like changing style 
guides, color schemes etc., which quite frankly they know nothing about 
since they're not visual desingers? This is why the plethora of 
templating systems exist -- and are the right tool for the job.

>> I'm looking for a Python example which adds a new kind of statement
>> to the language, and then later in the source file uses that
>> statement to write a part of the program, such that it's all
>> processed in the same pass. 
[..]
>> The statement can be nested in existing ones, and can have
>> existing syntax embedded in it.
[..]

Translation: Whaaa! I want macros <wink>.

> P.S. This is a very silly thread subject (but I'll keep it).
> We all know *why* people do not like Lisp. It's the parens!
> But don't take my word for it: I like Lisp. Ask almost anyone who
> doesn't! 

Personally, I don't care about the parens, the 28 different ways of 
quoting things _is_ a cognitive burden -- and where are the first class 
continuations?

-- bjorn