Python syntax in Lisp and Scheme

[Vijay L]

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<1cucnY9twevVdxGiU-KYhA at comcast.com>...
> "Pascal Bourguignon" <spam at thalassa.informatimago.com> wrote in
> message news:87ekxfmhhl.fsf at thalassa.informatimago.com...
> >
> > prunesquallor at comcast.net writes:
> > > Since having the correct amount of whitespace is *vital* to the
> > > correct operation of a Python program, it seems that the task of
> > > maintaining it is made that much more difficult because it is only
> > > conspicuous by its absence.
>  
> > That remembers me that when  the languages had significant spaces,
>  the
> > programming was  done with forms, sheets of  physical paper
>  preprinted
> > with empty spaces:
> [further idiocy snipped]

I don't know why you categorize it as idiocy.  I, having no experience
whatsoever with Python, find it hard to believe that indentation is
easy without "("s and "{"s.  (Yes, yes, I know, it can't be so hard. 
I've read the other posts, but I find it hard to believe nonetheless.)
 In the next paragraph you ask people not to be judgmental and here
you are doing it yourself.
 
> I do believe that several Lispers have suggested that people should
> give Lisp a fair trial before rejecting it on account of parentheses
> or macros.  

I love Lisp primarily /because/ of its macros.
 
> The same goes, of course, for Python and significant
> indents/dedents.  For most people who try Python, freedom from
> visually redundant fences is a feature.  Those who find it a bother
> after trying are welcome to chose another language.

> What makes the comments above doubly absurd is that Lisp has as much
> or more need for 'significant spaces' as Python.  Compare (1,2,3)
> versus (1 2 3).  Having the "correct amount of whitespace is *vital*
> to the correct operation of a" Lisp program as much as for any other.
> Do Lispers therefore use forms?  I suspect not ;-)

I don't know what you've meant by "white-space" here.

Removing white-space from (1 2 3) gives me (123).  I agree, very
different, but noone knowing the language would consciously do this,
not even a newbie.  A newbie, used to other languages, would probably
write (1,2,3) only to get and error saying that the comma cannot be
used outside of a backquote ... and no newbie I know is going to start
off with backquotes.  So once he gets an error what does he do?  Curse
the language and get on with the same list without the commas.  As
time goes by he begins to forget the commas in other languages and
curses /those/ languages.  (This happens to me sometimes :)

In Lisp, apart from the whitespace-where-required, whitespace is
insignificant.  You can write (1               2


3)
as well as (1 2 3) and get the same meaning.

So we Lispers don't need to use any forms.

Cheers,
Vijay

All future commitments are optimistic.