A little disappointed so far

[Graham Nicholls]

Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz wrote:

> On 2003-05-19, Graham Nicholls <graham at rockcons.co.uk> wrote:
>> 1.  Documentation - there are no good, up to date books - "Learning
>> Python" is poor, IMO. A little better is "Programming Python",
>> and better still is "Core Python", but this is out of date -
>> just covering 2.0 in an appendix.
> 
> Ignore the books. You say you have many years of experience,
> so open the Python tutorial, read it (takes around one hour) and
> start coding. I did that and never regretted it. I read my first
> Python books one year later, and yes, they dissappointed me too,
> because most of them are either for begginners or practically printed
> references of the HTML help. At least I use them as an excuse to
> impress friends: "see this 500 page book? Took me a few hours..."
> 
>> I can print the pdf version of the tutorial - Windoze just says
>> "document can't be printed" and prints 3 pages.  I use Linux 99%
>> of the time, but windoze is easy to duplex print from - I just
>> can;t be bothered to set it up from CUPS.
> 
> That's an interesting point of view: blaming a language due to being
> unable to print a pdf file, from Windows or Linux. It rocks! Maybe
> you should take a few years off (you seem to be comfortable using
> this scale to measure your spent time) to learn about printers
> (hint: http://www.linuxprinting.org/). I'm not even old enough to
> have the many years of your programming experience, but it took me
> one afternoon to configure my ink printer and use it under linux
> or through samba without previous experience. 

Well aren't we clever.  Now go back and read the post.  I've written a Unix
print spooler, so probably can manage to get one going.

> Give it a chance, ok?
Read the post - it was duplex printing I can't be bothered to work with - I
need to get to grips with CUPS (using lpr its a piece of cake & I might go
back to lprng), and then work out how to do duplex.  I like duplex.  It
saves paper and keeps my printouts small.
> 
> <subliminal_rant>If you can't be bothered to set up your hardware,
> should we bother to help you? The tao is down.</subliminal_rant>
> 
>> 2. Its all just so long winded, especially as a shelltool.
> 
> That's fine, I like opening yogurts with my chainsaw too.
> 
> On 2003-05-19, Graham Nicholls <graham at rockcons.co.uk> wrote:
>> > What things seem very hard?
>> Running external programs.
> 
> Just yesterday I had to do this, so I'll drop the one liner:
> 
>    os.spawnvp(os.P_WAIT, "./prog", ["prog"])
> 
>> No case statement - or is it simply that my documentation is
>> out of date? I _know_ I can do if elif else constructs, but in a
>> language which prides itself in its readability, this is laughable.
> 
> Especially for the duffman (spelling?) device. case statements to be
> readable usually need an extra level of identation from the parent
> `switch'. Isn't that ugly in itself?
Interesting idea. But no, I don't think so.
> 
>> I really don't wan't to attack python, but your attitude strikes
>> me as somewhat less than helpful, and I posted for some help,
>> perhaps in looking further to see that I was mistaken, rather
>> than for a flame war.
> 
> Come on, everybody knows that the best way to get help is to attack
> something and wait for its followers to defend it.
> 
>> >> With 25 years programming experience, I have a good idea by
>> >> now about my apprroach to programming, but thanks for the
>> >> patronising comment, anyway.
>> > 
>> > If you like patronizing comments, here's a better one: If you
>> > have 25 years of programming experience, you shouldn't be having
>> > these problems.
>> 
>> Of course, I should leap straight in to knowing python intimately,
>> and intuitively produce perfect code.  Especially bearing in mind
>> how different from other scripting languages (like perl/shell/awk,
>> etc) Python is.
> 
> But of course, take this as another patronizing advice:
> 
>    http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882
> 
> Do you still feel confident after having said that bit about your
> experience with scripting languages? To me it reads like 25 years
> of one-liners. You might want to express that in another way.
> 
Sorry, don't get it, but never mind.  25 years programming c c++ cobol (!) 
shell scripts 
> PD1: Sorry, I love flamewars.
Then you really are a bit sad. Or just very young, or both.
Oh FGS why am I bothering
> 
> PD2: I'm smiley-less, and with a charming personality.
> 

-- 
Graham Nicholls
All round good guy.